Tapestry of Dreams, Part 2 Discussion

[littlemanpoet]

There are times when I think the two of you have had too much coffee.I actually quit drinking the stuff (except for a social cup now and then) this past Feb. But I'm a nut for organization. :p

[littlemanpoet]

Is anybody keeping an eye on Tharonwe? You have perhaps 6 hours to answer before I post the post in which he acts. It could change everything. You have been warned.

[mark12_30]

Er--

Oh.

[littlemanpoet]

Tharonwë has wrought his vengeance. What now, I wonder? Oh, I just realized: Roy Edwards has something yet to do, if it is allowed. I will explain later.

[littlemanpoet]

Raefindan

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=307420&postcount=9 (1st)
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=325790&postcount=252
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=327595&postcount=270
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=328722&postcount=282
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=328959&postcount=285
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=329692&postcount=297
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=329779&postcount=299
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=335070&postcount=373 (2nd)
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=337582&postcount=391
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=359500&postcount=558
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=362915&postcount=590
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=384466&postcount=689
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=385532&postcount=693
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=536809&postcount=122
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=536883&postcount=124
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=550964&postcount=151

Mellonin

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=307420&postcount=9 (2nd)
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=332313&postcount=329
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=346931&postcount=430
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=355011&postcount=494
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=551764&postcount=153

Amroth

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=320653&postcount=144
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=323527&postcount=202
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=323629&postcount=209
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=342007&postcount=415
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=351556&postcount=470
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=365341&postcount=605
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=387868&postcount=696

Gwyllion

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=335070&postcount=373 (1st)
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=347025&postcount=431
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=357051&postcount=518
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=357309&postcount=527
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=357915&postcount=532

Bellyn

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=335342&postcount=378
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=347913&postcount=439
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=356372&postcount=508
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=357162&postcount=522
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=357937&postcount=535
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=493561&postcount=18

Mellondu

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=363466&postcount=594
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=532847&postcount=101

Erebemlin

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=363601&postcount=596

Ædegard

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=364430&postcount=602 (1st)

Jorje

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=364430&postcount=602 (2nd)

Aeron

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=364430&postcount=602 (3rd)
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491113&postcount=11
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=523419&postcount=59

Argeleafa

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=364484&postcount=603

Indil

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=533493&postcount=105

Ravion

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=550888&postcount=149
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=550943&postcount=150

[mark12_30]

Okay, so, that's fatal.

I'm flummoxed.

I guess that's one way to end the story a lot faster.

[littlemanpoet]

Well, we don't have to leave it that way; but you can bet Tharonwë would do that if there was "no eagles", as we say. I'm open to possibilities. Perhaps I wrote the worst case scenario. I would like to see what can be made of it, though. Here are some options:


Mellondu is dead and Amroth is marooned with Nimrodel but Aeron and Gwyllion are there to aid them, being ghosts, and this has been their destiny from the get-go.
Raefindan runs to Mellondu instead of toward Tharonwë and applies 21st century medical knowledge vis a vi breaking the arrow on both ends then applying pressure to the neck, so that Mellondu does not lose blood.
Raefindan effects some of the same power he exhibited in overthrowing Tharonwë's will by miraculously healing both Mellondu and Erebemlin, or even raising them from the dead.
Jorje sees what's about to happen and tackles Tharonwë before he can get the first arrow off and it flies awry but mortally wounds Leafa who with her dying breath sings that one song's final verse to Ædegard: "It will not be long love till our wedding day".
Raefindan sees "in his spirit" (being who and what he is) realizes what's about to happen and interferes somehow.


These are the options I can think of. Others? What do you think? Erebemlin's fate is not certain.

[littlemanpoet]

The post with dreams listed by dreamer is complete. Some day I'm going to have to read this whole story from beginning to end. It's really quite a tale we've wrought here. :)

[alaklondewen]

What would Mithrellas do in this situation? Would she or could she rush to the blacksmith and Erebemlin to provide some sort of Elvish care, prayer, or healing?

If Erebemlin survives, I see him losing his speech, which would provide some interesting and challenging writing.

[littlemanpoet]

I have the solution. Please continue to put together your posts as if nothing has happened. Writing those options and then sleeping on it has helped me know what to do. Originally I saw this all from Tharonwe's point of view, and now I see it from Raefindan's. I'm going to keep you in suspense for just a little bit, but I need at least one of you to post before I do again. Let me reiterate: please continue as if nothing in that last post has happened.

[littlemanpoet]

I have revised my "kill" post, and now you will understand what's going on. This is really going to be a lot of fun to write! :D

[piosenniel]

The errand rider from Gondor dismounted quickly and strode purposefully into the thread. He unfurled a parchment and nailed it to one of the walls:

***

Come one, come all, you denizens here and in far lands!!
All those who enjoy the reading of a good tale and the playing out of one.

A new name has been added to the list of storytellers in Gondor:

~*~ littlemanpoet ~*~

Come and give your congratulations to this wonderful wordsmith!

~*~ Free drinks/ free food/ & plenty of good company ~*~

***

Come to The Seventh Star (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=5666) Inn in Gondor and lift a glass to littlemanpoet.!!!

[littlemanpoet]

Helen, your writing is inspired! It takes my breath away! I'm really taken with how you used that song of Leafa and linked it into your post. (It's Festival of the Arts in G.R. this weekend, and a Celtic band performed that very song! The female fiddler in the band played the melody and then sang a verse, then played, then sang until the song was finished - I was enthralled!)

I'm thinking of Bellyn and Liornung. Do you have plans for them? So many songs, so many dreams between the two of them. If you don't have plans, I'm willing to try to work something up based on the links; it may take some time....

[mark12_30]

Thanks, lmp! *bows* But it was only natural, since I'm very fond of that particular song.

Bella and Liornung's many other songs: go ahead, and I'll follow best I can.

[mark12_30]

Whups, you beat me. THis is Amroth's response to Bella. Paste it at the end of your Bella post?? Or, I can put it up and you can leapfrog. Whatever.

Amroth responds to Bella:

Peace flooded into Bella's mind. She stood upon a steep mossy bank, with golden leaves scattered across it; the wind played with them, sometimes tossing them down into the musical water below. Upon the wind was borne a song of such heartbreaking loveliness she wept to hear it, and turned into the breeze to search for it. She would have run to its source, were she not rooted by its silver beauty.

Indeed you refreshed me when all seemed lost. Indeed, you traveled with me, far from home; we went where no one goes-- here, to this stream. You carried my load; you helped me tread for miles; you were my friend upon the road. Your songs were my road here, to this clear cool harmony, Bella. Your voice brought me here again and again. Do you not see that you were rest for my soul? Hope returned to me when you strengthened my faith, by bringing me back to this singing silver stream.

~*~*~

[littlemanpoet]

I'll paste it in when I get home. - Can't do it from this work computer.

[mark12_30]

K-dokie. FIlled my save.

Alak? Come play???

[littlemanpoet]

Additional bit in the Bella post now.

I'm getting very, very curious, Helen. I believe that you know for certain precisely what the eucatastrophe is going to be here, and each failure of it makes me hungrier for it. Your writing is at a height I haven't seen before. Poetic prose, it is. I'm not flattering, just stating fact.

I was wondering if Gwyllion and Aeron somehow play a part in the eucatastrophe? Or are they another step in the growing hunger for it? Let me know, and I may be able to write something for them. However, I do think it's time for another Tharonwe illusion; just gotta figure out where that's going. :p

[mark12_30]

Optomist!! THank you and I'm honored,. However, I'm following my nose, as I always do. As best as I can guess, God writes the eucatastrophes, not me. I just try to follow his leading and not miss 'em. Writing is as much prophetic for me as a church meeting...

I had no idea a balrog was going to land in that last post. Or the circle dance of death. It just happened. When I'm done, I think, huh, look at that.

Remember Forest Gump: "It was funny he said that, because right then!: God Showed Up." My favorite line in the whole movie.

[alaklondewen]

You've not lost me. We've had a rough week, but I'm reading daily and waiting for my chance (and time) to jump in.

By the way, Helen, I agree with lmp...your writing lately has been wonderful and moving.

[littlemanpoet]

I had no idea a balrog was going to land in that last post. Or the circle dance of death. It just happened. When I'm done, I think, huh, look at that. Huh. I missed the balrog reference until you pointed it out. Very suggestive. "Shadow and flame" should have been enough to clue me in. But that really raises the stakes, to an evil beyond Tharonwë, which, incidentally, I suggested long ago, you may recall; I just gave up on it. So is this balrog in their dreamland, or is their dreamland the spiritual dimension? If so, we've got no Gandalf. Am I flummoxed yet? Well, maybe getting there. Now what?

[mark12_30]

Regarding Roggie: Note that Erebemlin defeated him. It was, essentially, a nightmare. Just a really, really, really bad one, rooted in thousand-year-old fears. Roggie was the reason that they left Lorien, according to Unfinished Tales. Roggie on a Rampage was what the Lorienites all feared. (Eeew, my colloquialisms are uber-colloquializing.) And Nimrodel actually blamed the Noldorim for awakening All Those Shadows. It was why she initially refused to marry Amroth. And Fleeing the Shadow was why they decided to sail west, and then get married and live happily ever after -- somewhere much safer.

Having said that, that's just MY take. Feel free to have all the fun with it that you want, dreamwise. Roggie Revisited???

Alak: thanks. NOw would be a good time for Erebemlin's Reaction to CIrcle Dances, Ash, and Roggie.

Uh-- Dreamland, spritual dimension, or what. I think the answer is, sometimes one, sometimes the other, and sometimes both; Nimrodel is, after all, Mad. SOmetimes she is all wrapped around Pure Illusion. SOmetimes she is blind to Dangerous Truth. And sometimes, just sometimes, she Sees Things. Really.

I guess I would also expect INdil to have, depending on the day, either a bad dream, or a Nassssty VIsion of evil things, or... maybe both. Or neither. And maybe (just maybe) determining all that-- Symbolic VIsion? Deeply ROoted Fear? Manifestation of a Real Demon? Just a Bad Dream? What????-- could give the participants a bit of a headache, and Bafflement.

BUt ministry/counselling is like that.

Regarding Nimrodel, every now and then she might even say something Nice.

You asked (and my dear, beloved husband Keeps Asking) when this thing will be Done. I guess I'm thinking that, at least, each person in the crowd should get a chance (Maybe two, for some individuals) to Play Dead in Nimrodel's dreams, like Nethwador and Liornung already have. To participate in her wild dreams, and get called an oathbreaker or something, and have something of theirs woven (into or out of?) Nimrodel's journey (and Amroth's). To drag all of us through each and every dream or song would take more than I think I have to give. Does that sound unreasonable?

How does that sound?

[littlemanpoet]

Roggie? Wherever did you pick that nickname up? ;)

[littlemanpoet]

"Big rain, " whispered Willow, swaying and sweeping. "Much rain. Great deep-to-the-roots rain--"

Raefindan turned to Elempi. "Can I really do that?"

Elempi grinned.
Uh, what are you suggesting? Do you think Raefindan can do something I haven't thought of? (Elempi scratches his head, mystified but intrigued)

[mark12_30]

Roggie? Wherever did you pick that nickname up? ;)

Follow the link:
http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=360211&postcount=56

[mark12_30]

Uh, what are you suggesting? Do you think Raefindan can do something I haven't thought of? (Elempi scratches his head, mystified but intrigued)


I dunno, you tell me. HE keeps doing the "more than meets the eye" thing, so I never quite know what to expect. Perhaps he's growing bigger than life.

[littlemanpoet]

Follow the link:
http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=360211&postcount=56

Ah. I see. There was a "Roggie" in 'Assigned to Mordor I & II' also. I was beginning to think maybe you'd peeked in on that without telling anyone.

As to "larger than life" Raefindan, there's a rule I'm following. I'm modeling him a little after myself, and a little after a what a friend of mine has the strong potential to become. I know that sounds a little crazy, but believe me, this friend actualizes the NT in our day.

That said, "rain making" is not outside the realm of possibility: "'Even the wind and the waves obey him!' they said to one another."

[littlemanpoet]

Characters and themes that have yet to be worked in:

Note: everything below is suggestion, not certainty.


Aeron and Gwyllion are there to aid them, being ghosts, and this has been their destiny from the get-go.
Raefindan brings rain into the spirit realm where Amroth and Nimrodel hold their drama
Mithrellas - osanwë? Should she be Nimrodel's aid the way Erebemlin is for Amroth?
Ædegard - he's here for Mellondu - but what can he do?
Leafa - wow, I really don't know what to do with her past singing.
Jorje - I'm kind of lost here too.
Taitheneb returns - this is alak's task
Indil/Angela - I'd almost forgotten about her! What might she do?


Meanwhile, Raefindan continues to hold Tharonwë in check. Maybe I need to work on finding ideas for these characters from your posts, Helen. I'm really struggling with everybody but Tharonwë right now, and him soon too. I guess I like to know where things are headed in order to know what's happening now; not so good at just "following my nose". Hmm... not so good at prophetic writing. :( Any ideas?

EDIT: well, that worked in Gwyllion and Aeron after all, and Ædegard and Leafa a little bit; but they need more. I'm still thinking about that Raefindan/rain thing...

[mark12_30]

Aeron and Gwyllion are there to aid them, being ghosts, and this has been their destiny from the get-go.
Adding their "sulkiness" to Tharonwe's "sulkiness" could prove really hellish. Nice touch.

Raefindan brings rain into the spirit realm where Amroth and Nimrodel hold their drama
Washing away all that ash... Ahh, soo sweet. Bringing spring back again? Hold off, don't do it for a while. BUt it will be wow when it does happen.


Mithrellas - osanwë? Should she be Nimrodel's aid the way Erebemlin is for Amroth?
So far she's been signposting: standing back and pointing out what is going on. "Playing Captain Obvious", so to speak,. "She heard you, my lord!" I agree that more would be good but she's been with Nimrodel for a thousand years and has never gotten through yet. BUt Mithrellas knows Nimrodel like the back of her hand and is an invaluable reality-check. EDIT [Maybe she's Raefindan's GUide for part of this.]
Avarien departed too quickly, perhaps. COuld she be lingering Osanwe-wise somewhere near? Hadn't thought of that. Maybe she gets "sent back for a time"-- if she's needed in some way. Gah. Shelving that for the moment.
Ædegard - he's here for Mellondu - but what can he do?
Build wheels. I'm only partly kiddling. THe essence of who he is should play the strongest part. Maybe some fundamentally Rohirric thing will Matter. Maybe just his original befriending of Amroth/Mellondu. THe snowball fight.
Leafa - wow, I really don't know what to do with her past singing. See above. She was a gypsy? Wisdom about drawbacks of the wandering lifestyle?
Jorje - I'm kind of lost here too.
He's been center stage thus far! He's been great, with Tharonwe.
Taitheneb returns - this is alak's task
Indil/Angela - I'd almost forgotten about her! What might she do?
What would Raefindan expect her to do?

[littlemanpoet]

Adding their "sulkiness" to Tharonwe's "sulkiness" could prove really hellish. Nice touch. Thanks. I like how it's kind of comical. :)


Washing away all that ash... Ahh, soo sweet. Bringing spring back again? Hold off, don't do it for a while. BUt it will be wow when it does happen.Okay, I like that too. And Mithrellas being his guide - well, does he need one, considering how I'm writing him?

Avarien departed too quickly, perhaps. COuld she be lingering Osanwe-wise somewhere near? Hadn't thought of that. Maybe she gets "sent back for a time"-- if she's needed in some way. Gah. Shelving that for the moment.That Mellonin is mind communicating to Ravion and he back, tells me that Avarien is not really gone.

Build wheels. I'm only partly kiddling. THe essence of who he is should play the strongest part. Maybe some fundamentally Rohirric thing will Matter. Maybe just his original befriending of Amroth/Mellondu. THe snowball fight.In other words, friendship plain and simple. Okay.
See above. She was a gypsy? Wisdom about drawbacks of the wandering lifestyle?Okay, but I'm no good at gypsy lifestyle. Drawbacks of wandering? Okay, maybe I could do something with that.

What would Raefindan expect Indil/Angela to do?That actually doesn't help at all because she's still a mystery to Raefindan; but on second thought that actually helps, because then I at least know that whatever she is going to do is going to be a surprise to everybody. After all, we're dealing with a very unique construct at this point, a little girl who is descended from Mithrellas combined with the soul and spirit of a 21st century young woman who has already experienced both earthly love and paradise, and knows it. (trampling all over Hebrews "only once to live" here, but so did Tolkien I guess).

So I think my next post is probably going to be something more with Tharonwë, which makes it your turn. Anything from Indil/Angela is down the road a bit, just like Raefindan's rain.

[littlemanpoet]

Helen, I felt lost through more than half of that last post. I suggest providing content at the front of the post similar to that at the end of the post, creating a pair of book-ends to serve as references or points of entry for the reader.

[alaklondewen]

Lmp, I love the involvement of Aeron and Gwyll.

Helen, the elven circle was beautiful.

I have a sprig of an idea I'm going to chew and develop. In the meantime, I'll get a post ready for Erebemlin.

As to my sporadic-ness...we found out last week that my mother has cancer, so lift prayers for us...we really need them.

[mark12_30]

Helen, I felt lost through more than half of that last post. I suggest providing content at the front of the post similar to that at the end of the post, creating a pair of book-ends to serve as references or points of entry for the reader.

Er, okay. BUt it was just an echo of Aeron and Gwyll. Or maybe Aeron and Gwyll were echoing what had happened long ago (sort of how I interpreted it.) Did I ever figure out what Avarien's original name was...?

Anyway I added a couple sentences at the beginning.


Lord, please lift Alak's mom, and encourage her, and encourage all her family. And please provide all the care and wisdom that she needs.

[littlemanpoet]

Lord, please lift Alak's mom, and encourage her, and encourage all her family. And please provide all the care and wisdom that she needs.Amen.

[mark12_30]

Thinking of you, alak. May the Lord give you grace and peace, and may hope abound towards you in the power of the Holy Spirit.

[mark12_30]

lmp, I left you room for some more Aeron and Gwyll.

Alak, thinking of you. God's grace be abundant to you, and his peace. Keep us posted how you are, and how your mom is?

[littlemanpoet]

I'll see what I can do. My posting has tailed off dramatically in the last week and a half, due to other projects. I'll find time Friday or Sunday.

[Nurumaiel]

I'm just popping in briefly to say hello to you all. I'm so glad the story has been progressing well. I've really missed it, and missed all of you as well.

Alak, prayers going up for your mother, for you, and for all your family.

God bless!

[littlemanpoet]

You posted the same day I did! I never noticed! Of course, I was going through a spot of selfish not-caring so I wasn't looking very hard. I have repented.

Games. I'm thinking that Gwyllion and Aeron want to make up a game that makes Nimrodel stop thinking about her misery and despair and moves her into experiencing Amroth as real before she can stop herself from doing so. I'm not sure what kind of game for them to make up. Can you help?

[mark12_30]

Hmmm. That sounds like a great idea.

The problem is that in four days I depart for almost four weeks.

I was kind of relieved that you seemed too busy to reply...

How about we continue to pray for alak and alak's mom but put other Tapestry things on pause until Aug 7 or 8?

THen Gwyll and Aeron can have some real fun.

[littlemanpoet]

Wow. I'm still working on closing things down here at the BD. God told me to do this back in Feb. And here I am still resolving the close-down. I'll keep my commitment to this, including waiting for a month. My involvement is greatly limited already, so it's not like this is eating up my days anymore. Okay. I'll wait and say the prayers.

[mark12_30]

They buried my auntie last week.

[littlemanpoet]

God's grace to you in abundance. How are you?

[mark12_30]

Pretty raw, mostly because my dad is the last one of his family, and he knows it. He's pretty sad. And they're leaveing for FLA in another couple of weeks.

He's forgotten more than most of us ever know. And it's hard to watrch...

But I'm coming back, so to speak. SO even though I'm grim, I'm better than I was.

In the next week, I ought to put together a book of memories for my dad, regarding my aunt. Scrapbooking a life... Strange.
Wish I had more of her memorabilia. She always did beautiful silk-screened cards.

[littlemanpoet]

Take care, then. As you can see, I'm still hanging around here more than half a year after announcing my departure. I'm only in this and the Scarburg Meadhall threads anymore, and my involvement in that is winding down. When you're ready to start up, just post here. I'll set up so posts here send me an email.

[alaklondewen]

Helen, you are certainly in my prayers.

I thank you both for your prayers regarding my mama...we've just received official word, she's now cancer free after surgery and doesn't need radiation! Glory be to God!

In other news, this mama is going to have another little one coming in May :D, so I'm finding more time in the evenings when I wish to sit with my feet up. I'll not guarantee anything as to amount of time, but when you get started again, I'll attempt to put some into it, so it's not just the two of you.

[mark12_30]

Alak?!?!? Oh, is it good to 'see' you!

I amdelighted to hear about your mom'
s good news. Praise God for that!

And a munchkin on the way??? Does it get any better???

Well, then. My folks leave for FL in a week or so. Work has calmed down, a little. And I think I can start thinking about poor Nimrodel again...

[mark12_30]

Thinking about having to reread all the back posts and remember what we've resolved and not-resolved and... er, it was a little overwhelming. And then it hit me: MIcrosoft Reader, with text-to-speech add-in! Yeah, it 's flat and atonal, but when I was listening to Phantastes, langsyne, that actually made the suspense more intense, and the grimness more grim.

I'll have to install it on my laptop-- let's see how it goes...

EDIT

Haven't installed it on the laptop yet but I did install it on the desktop; sound is a little warbly but not bad. However the big news is that I converted Tapestry Book 2 (thus far!) to a cleaned up txt file in order to be able to convert it to a lit file. (MIcrosoft Reader reads lit files.) So now I have a cleaned, spellchecked file, both in txt format and lit format. It was a lot of work. Ever spellchecked an entire RPG? Hoo boy. Our threads are a bit of a mess. Anyway it is done, and if you would like a cleaned up, readable version of the story (book 2) thus far that you can either print, or have read to you by Microsoft Bob, let me know.

[mark12_30]

Eeermy. Aroooo. Onetoedog. Mancub.

AROOOOOOOO pant pant pant WAUGH

[mark12_30]

Done. Both TapestryBook1.txt and TapestryBook2.txt are now available.
TapestryBook1: 665 pages.

(0_0)

[littlemanpoet]

:) Okay, now what?

[mark12_30]

I'm actually listening to the whole thing... starting waaaaayyyy back in the first posts: snowball fight and all. Ædegard just got mad because Mellon is acting like some great elf-lord..

THe tought part of listening to it in Microsoft Reader is, it doesna always pronounce TOlkien. FOr instance "Ædegard" -- it can't pronounce Æ, so it kinda just skips that, and then spells out d-e-g-a-r-d. Lorien comes out Loreen. Morien comes out Moreen. And Raefindan comes out Rae- FINE-dan instead of Rae-fin-dan.

Every now and then I can ignore things, but I've got to fix Raefindan and Ædegard.

GLobal changes coming. I wonder if I spell it Aedegard if it will pronounce it properly. Kinda hate to do that, but... ANd how do I fix Raefindan? Hyphenate it? Rae-fin-dan? :eek::rolleyes:

So.. what'snext. I'm remembering things. SHould I continue listening to the whole thing? Or should I skip ahead to the second book (but I'm having FUN listening to the whole thing...)

[mark12_30]

Your next post is gonna be 6000.

Dude.

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, so here it is. Listen to the whole thing. Enjoy it. Then let us know how you want to proceed. There. So much for post # 6000. That was anti-climactic. :p

[mark12_30]

Aw, now I feel guilty for wasting your 6000th post.

:o

[littlemanpoet]

How did YOU waste my 6,000th post? That's my job, not yours. Do away with false guilt - it does you no good.

[mark12_30]

Elempi-- Listening to your own writings is COOL. You should all try it with Tapstry. And lmp-- Try it with TID!

[littlemanpoet]

That sounds like a great idea! I just need to figure out the technology for it, and figure out how to get my &#(_D speakers on my new computer to work. :rolleyes:

[mark12_30]

Do you have a headphone jack? Does it work? Have you fussed at the volume control in your system tray?

As far as the Microsoft Reader -- I can talk you through that.

[littlemanpoet]

No, I don't have a headphone jack. My volume control is not that simple a problem. It's this new Vista :rolleyes: computer.

Actually, every single sentence of TID has been read aloud in my writers' group; it is indeed a rather revealing exercise. Much good has come of it. So thanks for the offer, but I guess I'll pass for now. Let us know when you're ready to proceed with Tapestry.

[mark12_30]

And softly with a squish flap flip they sidle to the door.
Beyond the merlock mountains....


Ewww. Merlocks are Eeermy.
The Entwash chapters are pageturners, folks. You know what? We can write... Ædegard just turned back to look for Argeleafa, and I had to go and cook dinner, and it was TOUGH to put the book down. Even though I know what happens!

Mellonin is still captive, and has been joined now by Bella... And Amroth has submerged, and resurfaced... and Raefindan has no idea how to ride a horse. And those good elves are Dangerous, and the bad elf is slime slime slime!

[mark12_30]

Was reading a web page on Stonehenge and came across this :

...4000.... to 2000 BC...

"...more trhan 40, 000 megalithic sites have survived in the British Isles, this number exceeding the number of modern towns and villages, and yet ony a small percentage of these have been thoroughly studied."


Seems obvious, to me on the surface, that all them Numenorean monuments-- Orthanc, Minas Ithil and Minas Anor, and the big statues (what are they called again?) on the Anduin... and wasn't the Morannon (Black Gate) built by Numenoreans, and then cheerfully taken over by Sauron...? Anyway, it all seems to connect somehow. But hare there already threads about that? I was going to start a new one but decided I'd check with trusty friends first.... comments?

[littlemanpoet]

You're thinking of the Argonath.

I don't know if there are any threads on it. I haven't been involved in any forum discussions for about a year.

Might want to check with Estelyn.

[mark12_30]

Okay, I finished reading both books. I'm feeling ready, but no posts yet; I'm going on vacatoin over Christmas, and maybe that's the block. How about mid-January, or February, we buckle down and finish this?

You know I hate to.

Anybody that also wants to write an epilog for your character(s), I've found it cleans things up very well. Appendices can be added to the book proper or can be put in the discussion thread.

For The Lonely Star, I put in appendix for Phura and Gamba, and it pulled the book into the legendarium and (I thought) into The Fairy Wife as well. So: lmp, it seems to me you would want to do that for Roy Edwards Raefindan. Please feel free in the appendix to tie it clearly to wherever it goes, including TID or whatever other works you have.

I suspect a few of my characters will need it, although I won't know which ones til it's over. I suspect Mellonin and Ravion won't need much more; I'll make their future plan as part of the story.

Liornung, Ædegard, Leafa, Bella, Nethwador-- what hapens to them? Do we put that in the story or in an appendix?

Erebemlin definitely needs his happily ever after. I'd like to see that for Taitheneb, too. And of course, Indil must have a good home.

Heh. Maybe she goes to live with Erebemlin and Marigold. ;)

[littlemanpoet]

Hmmm... everything seems right except that Raefindan and Mithrellas already intend to adopt Indil, seeing as she's already a part of their family though many generations removed, not to mention Angela's connection to Roy.

I can wait as long as you like, seeing as this may be that time be the only thing I'm still doing here. I'm even wrapping up my involvement at Scarburg soon.

[mark12_30]

Oh, okay. That's fine. I had forgotten.

Wait. Raefindan and Mithrellas... Whoa. now THAT's a happily ever after.

If you told me that one I didn't get it at the time.

Cool.

[mark12_30]

We have a game with a tree, a king, a singing stream, and a missing girl....

[littlemanpoet]

Wow. I wondered if/when this would start up again. Yes, I know you said February, and here it is (2/3 done). It's going to take some doing to get my mind back around this one again - it's been quite busy with TID lately (89 chapters now). So give me time and some suggestions as to what you need/want from me, and I'll see what I can do.

[mark12_30]

Wow! TID is up to 89 chapters?? Prolific Elempi!

And this-- ...did I say February... I was feeling vaguely tardy anyway.

I have a few more posts in me, so relax and read for a bit. The challenge of the 'game' is that no one knows the song of the stream but the girl, whom nobody can find (and NImrodel has yet to discover that it's her.) The song is hidden deep in Amroth's heart, but she has to choose to seek for it there and that will take a bit of trust-gaining.

Ayone can play but we especially need Indil/Mithrellas/Angela, who can mirror Nimrodel's already weary/not yet aware/ will be reunited theme. Nimrodel has gone back to 'innocent child' for the duration of the game, and I think that will be her healing, when she finds the song. However her childlikeness throws Amroth a little off kilter.

Tharonwe can cause some grief, or Jorje some comic relief.

It's been long enough since I reread/listened to the story that I'm fuzzy again. But at least the past cou-ple pages worked most everybody in at least once. That's good, I won't feel guilty if someone gets a little neglected (Aedegard, where are you?)

Alak? You out there? Feel free to run with Erebemlin, and I sent Avarien to the borders of Lorien to bring Taitheneb back into the story. He can play from Lorien, she'll connect him with what's going on at the mountainside dale. THey can hunt for the song together. Ultimately Amroth has it, but I couldn't leave Taitheneb out of the tale at its climax...

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, that helps. But it's late and the creative juices are not flowing right now. I think I'll reread the last few pages when I get a chance, and see how that helps. At the moment I'm feeling rather intimidated by Indil/Angela/Mithrellas, but maybe rereading will help.

TID? Prolific? Nah. I just can't help it. And the last three chapter I wrote, I've scrapped because they didn't work; so ch. 89 just became ch 86. Ho hum. ;)

[alaklondewen]

I'm here, I'm here.

I need to reread a bit to get in the flow and I'll just jump in as I have time.

[littlemanpoet]

Well, I made an attempt. Let me know if I need to change anything.

[mark12_30]

I like it! Indil's fun will open Nimrodel up, til she is ready to look anywhere to find the missing song. We can hunt the song for a while longer if you like!

[littlemanpoet]

I just added three more paragraphs. Have a peek.

You know, Helen, reading the story from post to post is a different experience than reading each entry days apart as it builds. I find it quite moving, bringing tears of sympathy and joy. I'm actually finding myself in sympathy with both Nimrodel and Amroth, which I couldn't quite accomplish in the post by post build.

EDIT: I just read your most recent post. That's exactly what I thought of doing next! :) But now what?

[mark12_30]

Alak's turn, I think. I'm heading towards the brink more quickly than I thought! What else do we need to wrap up...?

I know what you mean about reading through it; I experienced something similar. I love how you bring Faerie in.

[littlemanpoet]

I love how you bring Faerie in.Thanks. I have to, can't help it. :p

Okay, Alak's turn.

There's simply nothing like collaborative writing with writers who share a vision. :) :)

[mark12_30]

Alak? AAAAAlaaaaaaaaak!

I WAS patient. For a whole workday...

[mark12_30]

Oh, hey, lmp-- LOVE the new sig!!!

[alaklondewen]

Sorry, Helen...wasn't home this evening and tomorrow evening is Ballet. If you have momentum...go, go, go, and I'll get in late tomorrow evening or Wednesday.

By the way, I love where this is going... my excitement is back.

LMP, your posts are gorgeous, as usual.

[littlemanpoet]

Oh, hey, lmp-- LOVE the new sig!!!Thanks! :) I wrote a poem called "Incarnation" way back 15 years ago, and these are the four final lines of sixteen.

Here's the whole thing:

INCARNATION


When Christ, for love of splintered light,
of fallen flesh and rotted tree,
of emptied day and fear-filled night,
stooped eagerly from deity
into the blessed Virgin's womb
(enholied by that sacred Leaven),
He gloried hollow atom's tomb
with weight and depth of solid heaven.


Our flesh, now gloried, lucent shines,
as moving streams reflect the sun;
we bodied beings, in Him divine,
now dance and sing, our glory won.
Incarnate Dream! Word in flesh!
Let human words in music, laced
with gloried tongue and throat, express
all praise to Him who flesh has graced!

Yeah, it's strongly influenced by Tolkien: "splintered light" from The Silmarillion, and by Lewis: "depth of solid heaven" from The Great Divorce.

And thanks much, Alak. I'm just trying to keep up with Helen's inspired art.

[mark12_30]

Formendacil...? You there?

Are you interested in posting?

[Formendacil]

Formendacil...? You there?

Are you interested in posting?

Erm... sort of... to both questions...

I'll have to get back to you after Ash Wednesday. The next couple days are crazy.

[mark12_30]

Don't think because I didn't reply right away I'm not still pondering it... Amazing, and food for much thought.

What did you think of the Ravion post? Did I overstep any bounds with Raefindan etc? Was it too pentecostal?

Thanks! :) I wrote a poem called "Incarnation" way back 15 years ago, and these are the four final lines of sixteen.

Here's the whole thing:

INCARNATION


When Christ, for love of splintered light,
of fallen flesh and rotted tree,
of emptied day and fear-filled night,
stooped eagerly from deity
into the blessed Virgin's womb
(enholied by that sacred Leaven),
He gloried hollow atom's tomb
with weight and depth of solid heaven.


Our flesh, now gloried, lucent shines,
as moving streams reflect the sun;
we bodied beings, in Him divine,
now dance and sing, our glory won.
Incarnate Dream! Word in flesh!
Let human words in music, laced
with gloried tongue and throat, express
all praise to Him who flesh has graced!

Yeah, it's strongly influenced by Tolkien: "splintered light" from The Silmarillion, and by Lewis: "depth of solid heaven" from The Great Divorce.

And thanks much, Alak. I'm just trying to keep up with Helen's inspired art.

[littlemanpoet]

No, not too pentecostal. Had you said that his past was redeemed, then maybe. But gone, that is just right. What a post! See, that's the kind of thing I forget that Tolkien didn't - all the names of things. Wonderful!

[littlemanpoet]

Just to let you know - I've been a little at a loss concerning Mithrellas, so I've been reading page 4 over again - and then page 5 - to get a sense of what's been happening with her and others. So I'm not gone, just rekindling.

[littlemanpoet]

I've rediscovered a couple of loose threads to pick up and tie back into the plot:

1. Bergil promised to be Indil's guardian and take her back to Minas Tirith. That serves as an interesting point of contention/conflict vis a vie Raefindan and Mithrellas being ready to adopt Indil as their child.

2. The ghosts of Indil's parents have been said to also be in this vale.

This is not a rediscovered point, but a new idea: Raefindan places Tharonwe in the alternate dell so that he can face his freed captive and she face her former captor - how might that affect Amroth's quest???

[mark12_30]

I've rediscovered a couple of loose threads to pick up and tie back into the plot:

1. Bergil promised to be Indil's guardian and take her back to Minas Tirith. That serves as an interesting point of contention/conflict vis a vie Raefindan and Mithrellas being ready to adopt Indil as their child.

2. The ghosts of Indil's parents have been said to also be in this vale.

This is not a rediscovered point, but a new idea: Raefindan places Tharonwe in the alternate dell so that he can face his freed captive and she face her former captor - how might that affect Amroth's quest???

Good observations-- both Bergil and Indil's parents had been niggling at the back of my mind, but nevertheless neglected.

Tell me more about Raefindan, Tharonwe, and "the alternate dell".

She's not quite free yet-- she's a child again, but not yet a free woman. It remains for her to find that one certain song, and the only one who truly remembers it is Amroth. She has to decide to investigate him first, and trust him.

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, the Tharonwë in the "dell" thing runs in my mind like this.

Raefindan is looking at Tharonwé not only as enemy to be defeated but as fallen Elf who could repent and be restored. Not saying that will necessarily happen - that's just how Roy thinks about it. So he has motivation to make Tharonwë face the one person his life has been obssessed with for centuries. The obvious problem is that this may not be good for Nimrodel, and may not be good for Tharonwë/Maegeleb.

But it might be good for both. It's somewhat analagous to the Garden of Eden except that Eve was not separated from Adam for centuries; however there is the triangular relationship going on.

So let's say that Thar. is sent there by Rae. What does he see? He sees Nimrodel as the beautiful young maiden he had fallen for in the first place. She also sees Amroth reaching out to her. Naturally, he will fall for her again and try to win her in place of Amroth. Her reaction could go a few different ways: she could reject Thar and turn to Amroth. Or she could reject Amroth and turn to Thar. Or reject both and turn into herself.

However, the three are not alone in the dell. Indil/Angela is there. Aeron and Gwyll are there. Jorje is there. Who they know these three to be will affect the outcome.

Can Thar repent? Maybe, maybe not. But Rae sees no other way for it to be a possibility. Or at least, I don't.

There may be other dimensions to this that I haven't thought of, so what do you think?

[mark12_30]

Hmmm. Maybe Tharonwe's innate eeerminess is what drives Nimrodel to one last, desperate plunge into the mind of the blacksmith, to see if there is a stream-song there. And she discovers a golden king.

Could work.

Where's alak? We need something from Erebemlin.

[mark12_30]

Lmp, I don't know where you are going necessarily but it looks good. What do you need from me? Or from Nimrodel?

And where is aaaalaaaaak?

[littlemanpoet]

I need you to post for Nimrodel and others, they're initial reactions to Maegeleb showing up. I imagine the renewal effect will work upon his appearance as well, and he will begin to appear younger than he now is also.

Feel free to carry on action and interaction as you wish, and then I'll be happy to take it up again.

[littlemanpoet]

I've posted for Maegeleb.

[mark12_30]

Okay, it took a long time (sorry) but Nimrodel has noticed his appearance.

[littlemanpoet]

I fear a plot contradiction emerging in regard to Amroth. Please tell me if you've thought about this. Amroth's spirit (fea) cannot weaken, it seems to me; but the body in which he dwells does weaken. The fea of Amroth may be limited by the weakness of the body of Mellondu, and the frustration would thus be growing and lending even greater energy to Amroth; such that Mellondu is weakened more quickly. However, I see you writing Amroth as weakening, and that doesn't seem quite in keeping with my understanding of Tolkien's set up. Please let me know your thoughts.

[mark12_30]

I fear a plot contradiction emerging in regard to Amroth. Please tell me if you've thought about this. Amroth's spirit (fea) cannot weaken, it seems to me; but the body in which he dwells does weaken. The fea of Amroth may be limited by the weakness of the body of Mellondu, and the frustration would thus be growing and lending even greater energy to Amroth; such that Mellondu is weakened more quickly. However, I see you writing Amroth as weakening, and that doesn't seem quite in keeping with my understanding of Tolkien's set up. Please let me know your thoughts.

What I'm thinking is that he is less and less "sent". He has been on Mandos' leash for the whole quest. Mandos is calling him back, slowly pulling (leaking? leaching?) him back into his own halls. Amroth feels it, mysteriously, but neither understands that nor can he quite express that, since Mandos is, and has been, all but hidden from him except for that one awful headache-inducing slip on Mandos' part. Whenever he begins to remember the thousand years interval between his drowning and the present, Mandos clouds it again.

If Amroth were dying in battle, like Feanor, he'd burn brighter, I think. But even as he somehow senses that his quest is nearing completion, he knows his time here is ending. Since there are no more ships that will sail west (he thinks-- remember his was the "last ship" then in order to go west, he must die. So must she. His question is will Nimrodel follow him or not. He knows (somehow) that his time is ending. She will either recieve him, or not.

In Mandos, is he brightening? I don't know. Maybe. In hope that they will be together soon.

It would be good, I guess, to have him blaze up as he dies. Will that consume Mellondu? But I want Mellondu to live.

I don't think I will write the "Lo, thus waketh Amroth in the halls of Mandos, and sayeth, Twas but a dream!" It doesn't fit. I think he will be waiting & hoping to be "reincarnated", and Nimrodel with him. I imagine Taitheneb reminding them to meet by the such-and-such stream in Lorien once theyy are of age. Maybe Taitheneb will utter it as an elegy of sorts once they are gone.

[mark12_30]

HOWEVER-- you've explained logically and thoroughly why Taitheneb and Erebemlin are so flummoxed that he IS 'fading'. I'll have them discuss it. That should clear part of it up, and the other part... hmm, how WILL I explain it? Food for thought. Perhaps Avarien will get a burst of insight.

Or Raefindan.

Hoom hom.

[littlemanpoet]

What if Maegeleb doesn't give Nimrodel the song?

[mark12_30]

THen she'll comb for it, and eventually comb through Amroth's mind too. She can taste the freedom in it (in the hints of the song) , and she's hunting in earnest now.

[littlemanpoet]

You removed a post! I was going to base my next one off of it! Haalp! :eek: ;)

[mark12_30]

..... I what?????

[mark12_30]

The last post has three parts. Were you thinking of the part in the middle?

[mark12_30]

In rereading it, I just noticed: Now that she has stepped outside of it, besides Maegeleb, Nimrodel is the only main character outside the circle. Did Indil's parents join the dance? Maybe she's the only one outside the circle at all except Maegeleb.

[littlemanpoet]

Sorry, I misread. New post up.

[mark12_30]

Perhaps Mithrellas gets her say next?

[littlemanpoet]

Me speak for Mithrellas? Whoa! :eek: That would require wisdom and constancy and forgiveness and seeing something greater going on than - as big as it is - the mere transformation of the Amroth/Nimrodel tragedy into eucatastrophe. (is that even possible?) Hmmm....

Any ideas are most welcome!

[mark12_30]

Let's paint it and move on. It'll be a marker and if you want to come back with something profound it'll be there. I'll give it a shot.

[littlemanpoet]

That was ..... profound! Keep it going. I'm spectating right now. You have this firmly under control. Keep going until you need something from me and let me know.

[mark12_30]

Noldorin: ?.

Amdir is the father I'm 'using'. Some sources say Amroth was of the "Nandor". If he is really Nandorin, I have some tweaking to do. However "Nandorin" doesn't quite blend with the argument Amroth and Nimrodel had about the Warmongering Intruder Elves coming across the Misty Mountains and ruining it for the rest of us peaceful Silvans.

I'll have to double check that when i get back to my copy of Unfinished Tales.

Maybe I have "Son of Galadriel and Celeborn" on the brain. Tolkien rejected that, as do I, although I admit to toying with the idea of "Godmother" or "Nanny" or some other motherly form of influence that might tie the two contradictory parenting lines together. Auntie Galadriel?

Have patience with me, I'm thrashing....

[mark12_30]

Sindarin.

...I knew that...

[mark12_30]

Woof.

Okay, Maegeleb has had his last scream, Nimrodel has defied him, and now Nimrodel and Amroth are once again at the drowning. Now I have to decide whether she learns about Mandos now or later. Later, I think. She needs to get a flyby of the quest but I think she can get that from Erebemlin, or Taitheneb; in a sentence or maybe a paragraph, a post at the max unless there is something more in-depth you want to do with that. Otherwise, she's about to declare that Amroth is True.

She still hasn't heard the song of the stream yet. I haven't forgotten it. I think, after all, it may heal Amroth as much (more?) than it heals Nimrodel.

There should be some more Faerie yet to come, when she does sing it. What else do we need to pull together, and do we want it pulled together when she sings?

[mark12_30]

.....it's vewy vewy quiet.....

[mark12_30]

I think I'm missing several things. Halp-- Critiques please?

[littlemanpoet]

Sorry, I've been preoccupied the last couple days.

The only thing I can think of as missing might be tying in all the various characters - but are they not at ths point pretty much observers?

The one exception seems to be the trio of Raefindan, Mithrellas, and (especiallly) Indil who seems to be growing (pardon the pun) by leaps and bounds as this story reaches its climax. But I'm not sure where this will go. What do you have in mind by having her grow so fast?

Oh, and one more thing. Maybe Maegeleb is done, but I'm not quite sure Tharonwé is. Right now he is merely pathetic. That can't be the end. There is malevolence that got stopped by Raefindan and then buried by the vision of Nimrodel (and the faint hope of winning her); now that that is dashed, Maegeleb (like Smeagol) recedes and Tharonwë wants revenge. I'm not sure how yet. Not sure how he can breka free from Raefindan unless there is outside assistance.

I don't suppose that's helping much with your thought process, but these are just things swirling in my head.

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, that last post was before I read all of yours. You've been busy! :eek:
It's really very good. Moving!

Tharonwé has already spoken. He need not speak anymore. You've done well in using him.

I'm ready for the story to continue. I love how you've woven Taitheneb back in - with the story of his father and uncle. Clever! :)

[mark12_30]

I would still like to consider that Tharonwe (as he gets worserer and worserer) be an integral part of some sort of reversal. Wouldn't it be amazing if he still, somehow -- somehow-- repented? I know, not totally pure Tolkien, but-- even Tolkien longed for it, with Gollum.

Nimrodel has renounced Tharonwe and thinks she is safe from his wiles now, but once Amroth departs, and Erebemlin and Taitheneb are exhausted, and all eyes are on Nimrodel to see what she will do-- he will have another opportunity. I imagine Raefindan will be reticent to interfere at that time, because this is really a test for Nimrodel. So she needs to be able to stand against Tharonwe. There may perhaps be one last firestorm.

How will Tharonwe come out of it?

Oh. Indil growing-- she's just responding to the passing of the seasons, namely while Nimrodel wept over her faithlessnes to Mithrellas. Enchantment covered all of them and the time flew by, but still, a year went by, Faerie style (Mellondu and Mellonin and all the Rohirrim and mortals will return home after years, not months) and it grew Indil (and visibly aged the now wretched Maegeleb).

The only growth spurts she needs to have will correspond to any more winters and summers. I'm not sure whether we will need any more or not.

[mark12_30]

Afterthought: ....But Indil's growth need not be ONLY from the passing of time. Your call. Would you like to do something with it? Could be profound. What does Angela think of all this? Striking any chords in her?

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, I get it now. I like it. Wow! A whole year goes by and they don't even know it!?!? How are they fed? .... or does Faerie take care of that?

As to Angela/Indil, wow. That threatens to strike deep chords in me. I don't know what's there but whatever it is, is powerful and dangerous to touch somehow - but that's my


- - - oh.


It seems to have to do with my oldest sister who was stillborn. Wow. I didn't realize until right now that that's who Angela is. At least that's the connection for me. Which makes me wonder, who is Roy? Something to mull about.

Tharonwë can be that evil. I sort of see him possessed by something beyond/worse than he originally was . . . some evil minor Maia?

[mark12_30]

Amazing what this stirs, isn't it? The 'old' Nimrodel and I have, or had, too much in common...

Yes-- Faerie takes care of all that. Recall that Melian and Elwe Singollo (Thingol) stood in the forest together enchanted (by each other? By Melian?) for years while the -- was it the Teleri? -- Searched for him, never found him, and departed without him.

BUt I really took it from George MacDonald. He uses it over and over again.

[mark12_30]

I think I need to backfit a thing or two in the last couple of posts. She can't sing just yet-- something isn't finished-- without one or two more things getting tied together...

[mark12_30]

I know I haven't posted. I know I have to make something happen. I just... can't. At the moment.

[littlemanpoet]

I can wait. I don't visit the Downs so much anymore, soon to be done. So I have my email set to be notified whenever someone posts on a subscribed thread, of which I have just 4. So I can wait.

[littlemanpoet]

Not really sure what I can do to help this along right now...

[mark12_30]

Nor am I... don't feel bad.

Also... Home computer is broke for now. Patience?

As the stream builds, so will she. But I'm still missing parts of hte picture.

[mark12_30]

lmp,

what an awesome sig.

The stream still calls to me. Work is insanely busy, however. But the stream still flows from the mountainsides. Just a trickle at first...

[littlemanpoet]

Good to "hear" from you again, Helen.

The sig is from a song by David Ruis. Google his name and some of the lyrics and you can read the full lyrics. It's an amazing song of hope and perseverance.

I'm done with Scarburg now. Tapestry and PMs are my only involvement at BD now. TID is moving forward very slowly, but it's moving.

I'm going to have to find time myself to reaquaint (sp?) myself with Tapestry as time allows.

[littlemanpoet]

So yes, I've been thinking about what I could possibly do to add to the story at this point, and finally hit upon something that would not interfere yet might even serve as an enrichment. I hope you like it. Be blessed!

[littlemanpoet]

The circle dance of solemn joy reminds me of worship.

[littlemanpoet]

Wow! We're nearing the end, then. Is there anything you would like me to write about?

[mark12_30]

"Happily ever afters" will have to come after the ending, for those to whom it applies, anyway.

The rohirrim feel sadly neglected but my focus is on the elvish center.

So I guess... act on inspiration if and when you have it.... otherwise, the stream continues its seaward rush.

Sarn Gebir Rapids, and then Rauros, and then the broad sweep to the sea... You are right, it's coming fast.

[piosenniel]

Lovely, lovely writing, the both of you!!!

A joy to read!

~*~ Pio

[mark12_30]

Thanks, Pio! It's always nice to know somebody's reading!

Elempi--

I've done a bit of charging ahead. Please let me know if I've taken liberties with Raefindan especially, but also anybody else.

[mark12_30]

lmp,

WHo sang "She moved thru the fair"? Wasn't it Argeleafa? Or was it Bella?

Whoever it was will be asked for a reprise, next post.

Edit: FOund it; 'twas Argeleafa.

[littlemanpoet]

I think I made a list of song posts somewhere back there.... checking it out....

It was Leafa - post 332, 1st run.

Ah, ya beat me to it. :)

[mark12_30]

...why is it so hard to end this story...?

[littlemanpoet]

Do you know how it's suppose to end?

I could come up with some suggested answer for your question but I doubt that's really why you ask.

What would you like to do about this?

[mark12_30]

I have been weary and dispirited, but it is time to find my rest in Him, and let what I cannot control, go. And there is much that I cannot control. Thanks, lmp, for the gentle encouragement. You are a good friend.

It would be really nice to actually finish this. As well as actually finishing the technical paper...

For encouragement, I actually went back and reread "Bolco Returns to the Shire." I can write, really I can, as long as God is near; and as long as I can make the time. Which means, as long as He gives it to me. Please, God....

"But in everything, by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, make your requests known to God..." To finish things. And finish them well.

I felt like Bolco on the Barrowdowns... turned into a hollow tree, empty of heart, with dead leaves rattling in the cold wind. But I cried out to God, and this morning there was some joy. (Ever heard Phil Wickham? Old favorite made new.) may it persist, or be renewed often. Hope is good. Rest is good. My desire is for Evendim, and for today, Evendim is a good desire...

[mark12_30]

Evendim. Time to hike around the shore? Or better yet, to swim the shallows, all the way around.

[littlemanpoet]

I"m not hearing His voice right now. I'm in the position of Abraham getting ready to sacrifice Isaac. His presence is with me though...

Let me know if there's anything you want me to do.

And yes, you most certainly can write well when God is with you. I've read your stuff, I know.

[mark12_30]

All right. It took nine months, but Nimrodel has perished at long last, in the falls of Rauros, and Mellondu is shattered. The rest is tidy-up.

lmp, Marigold just called Erebemlin and Taitheneb to come and get Mellondu (who is actually at the Entwash, with Marigold.) It's a longish journey. I think Mellonin will go, and therefore Ravion. What will the Rohirrim do? Raefindan & co?

I forget... which of the seven rivers were we on, anyway? Sheesh, that was years ago.

[littlemanpoet]

Wow. Marigold's entrance was the perfect touch.

Are you talking about the seven rivers of the Entwash, or the seven rivers of Gondor?

Raefindan, Mithrellas, and the girl (what's her name?) are a unit and they are devoted to the good of Nimrodel and all those associated with her. They will seek to aid Mellondu as they are able.

Ædegard's friendship with Mellondu will lead him to aid him as he can, and Leafa will stay with Ædegard.

Does all this sound right?

[mark12_30]

Yes, it all sounds right.

Indil/Angela is all yours...

I neeed to take the proverbial deep breath, and decide what order all this occurs in.

I owe Mellondu's parents a dream from ... hmmm, i was assuming Marigold but perhaps Amroth will make one last appearance. Must think that over.

Erebemlin and Taitheneb are pretty wrecked. Not as wildly as Mellondu; and in a strict sense they succeeded completely in their quest. But Erebemlin needs time to digest that. and to say goodbye.

I think Taitheneb will sail.

Aedegard and Leafa could be the happier side of our pretty sad ending! As Raefindan And Mithrellas as well.

I think Tharonwe lingers. dwindling and fading, in the swamp.

[mark12_30]

which river in South Gondor was the question.

[littlemanpoet]

Either Gilrain or Kelos. I want to say Gilrain but it looks too far west. Still, Gilrain.

I forgot about Tharonwe.

I find myself trying to make this iteration of Roy Edwards aka Raefindan to flow naturally from my own story into this one. Maybe that's silly, but for some reason it seems appropriate. But that's an aside.

Fascinating, how bitter for the Elves (except perhaps Mithrellas - for now) and how fulfilling for all humans but Mellondu. There's just one thing. I'm thinking in Tolkienian themes: although Frodo was at the end of the tale "a wreck", he also was anything but. Of course, that's only true if one accepts the Christian basis for everything Tolkien wrote. That said, Frodo was Elvish in the best sense at the end of the story, in that his spirit burned so brightly that it could be seen by the perceptive; but also he was very human in that he was weary in body and soul and ready to lay down "these earthly trammels" and be laid to rest. I want this to somehow be so for Mellondu also. Somehow. I understand that the Elves gave themselves to each other, man and woman, to a degree not usual or likely in humans. This extreme (for lack of a better word) devotion that Mellondu experiences through Amroth's devotion for Nimrodel, appears to be the heart of his wound. But he's young. Or has his possession by Amroth aged him beyond his years in body as well as soul and spirit? Be that as it may, I think there can and perhaps must be some sort of resolution for him. Nothing flighty or easy, of course, but some sort of settled-ness in the end. At least, that's what I'm suggesting.

I'm interested to see what happens with Mellonin, as well. Her love for Ravion has seemed a little forced to me. When Orual was writing Ravion it didn't seem so much that way, but such are the difficulties of losing our friends on the long journey these RPGs become. Ah well.

So is it your thought to write the journeys of everyone as a denouement?

[mark12_30]

I don't think I have that much writing in me, lmp. not at the moment, anyway.

I was going to ask you, now that some time has gone by, what the story was (several posts back) about Abraham and Isaac. I was hesitant to ask when you posted that... digging about in someone's open wound not being generally appreciated. But the fire is burning on my own altar, now. This is the second death of this particular hope. Lindo's song about Bird (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=181587&postcount=591) fed Phura's (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=186039&postcount=367) dreams, but they were revealed as empty, lifeless, and vain.

I was happy to write, yesterday. Today? Feh. "And they all died, and their bones rotted on the mountainside, and Tharonwe lived happily ever after."

So, the correct answer is, His arm is not short, His hand is not weak. "The Lord gives, the Lord takes away; blessed be the name of the Lord." Yes or no? "Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him." Will I? In the light of eternity, this is no big deal. Just a little snag.

[littlemanpoet]

I think that what must happen at this point is that all of the characters must have their resolutions, and we need to know what each one will be so that we can write what is needed, no more and no less, to reach that goal. I'm more than happy to help discern what each character needs.

[mark12_30]

I guess the next question is how to break the silence. I think it will be Mellondu's parents' dream.

[mark12_30]

And if you want Roy Edwards fully manifested at the Gilraen (you were correct)or at Marigold's house or anywhere else in the tale-- should we end it back at the Seventh Star?) you have my full blessing. The Tapestry of Dreams: all threads fully revealed! Dude, would that be COOL.

[littlemanpoet]

Roy Edwards fully manifested? Err.... my story so far is less manifested than this rpg! But thank you for the offer and compliment.

It doesn't matter to me where the characters start. We could go for a start at Marigold with a "they had traveled for __ days ..."

I'm still mystified about Nimrodel. How could she die at the Rauros Falls if she was at the Gilraen with the other characters? It just doesn't make sense to me.

But go ahead with Mellondu's parents' dream when you're ready.

[mark12_30]

If you are time travelling via dream, when you die, where and when do you die? Eldarion and Erendis sort of thing.

I had always known that Nimrodel would follow Boromir down the falls in Frodo's boat, and die. Her heart was in the song of the stream, and they retuned there together in thought. I knew Amroth would "die" / leave before she went down the falls; it had to be Mellondu's fault (the way the story grew). I suppose another option would hvae been for Mellondu to wake up in the clearing after he drove Amroth out, but then Nimrodel wouldn't have gone down the falls, and Marigold wouldn't have come back into the tale. Mellondu going down the falls with Nimrodel made sense to me; she felt it was her duty to take him down safely... and the task proved too much for her. I couldn't have her commit suicide. And I wasn't ready for her to die of a broken heart so soon after recovering her trust in Amroth. So Rauros it was.

I've been dreading that post for nine months.

[littlemanpoet]

OK. Sorry for the delay. So do you want me to start writing some stuff for this?

[mark12_30]

I guess I should write Mellondu's parents' dream. Hmmm. Hoom hom.

SHould have waited... not inspired yet. Hmph.

[littlemanpoet]

It's a good start. Feels dreamish.

[mark12_30]

I edited it. Marigold gets around.

I think the ansewr to all your questions, lmp, is that everyone is dreaming, to a point. That's why people come and go with such alacrity, are called and summoned and released. And yet-- there is no waking.

What to do with Avarien? Will she fade, and be a "rustic memory" in some glade somewhere? Essentially that is what she is now. Or will she go west?

[mark12_30]

Note to self: previous discussion thread posts which indicate nececssary tidy-up work:

838
863
Don't forget all those Rohirrim
891, 893
895, 897

[piosenniel]

Just wanted to let you know that there is now a Gondor Game Index (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=17141) so that you can easily find your old games with the discussion/planning threads listed right next to them.

~*~ Pio :)

[mark12_30]

Thanks, Pio!

I need alaklondewen... Erebemlin and Taitheneb are't mine to finish! lmp?

[littlemanpoet]

Helen, please be patient. I have a very busy weekend. I expect to have more time to dig back into this come Monday. The atmosphere of your posts is enchanting.

[mark12_30]

No Worries. I can't exactly come back from a hiatus of seasons and demand that you respond in seconds, now can I?

...but I am hoping Alak will surface. Now THAT is a long shot.

[littlemanpoet]

I think Tharonwe lingers. dwindling and fading, in the swamp.

With his critters (can't remember what they're called - M---- something), curdling on his own bitterness.

I've read up on your post notes to yourself. That helps. Now to read the last two dozen posts, then maybe I'll have a sense of what to write. .... by Monday or so...

[littlemanpoet]

Some amazing stuff has been written here. Sometimes, it seems, the story takes us over and brings us beyond ourselves, beyond our abilities. I think this is called the Spirit.

"You have loved me well, I deem. Somehow, I also know that I have not loved you well. "

She turned to the lady, and caught her breath. Long moments passed.

"I know you. You are my Mithrellas."

And Nimrodel wept, golden tears shimmering in the sun falling onto the green sward. Around them the trees darkened into a deeper green; faded into gold; the leaves fell; snow began. And still Nimrodel wept. When the snow grew thick around their ankles, she stepped forward and embraced Mithrellas. Mithrellas' strong and gentle arms encircled her once again, and Nimrodel knew that those arms had held her many, many times. Nimrodel's heart sank into the embrace. Finally Nimrodel spoke.

"Truly and well you have loved me these long ages. Yet I have given you only cruelty and despair. Great is my wrong. Oh, how great is my wrong toward you. And how great is your good toward me."

She looked into his eyes again, and trembled. She spoke then in a whisper, but the glade quivered to hear it.

"You are true."

Taitheneb watched the king steadily brighten, and Erebemlin's fear began to ebb. At last, he thought. She knows him. An age seemed to slip away like a dream upon waking.

"Beloved, my heart desires naught else." He kissed her brow as joy swept through the glen.

Then he said, "But I can not take you with me."

Stunned silence fell, and one of the mortals gasped. The mocking laughter of the bound elf echoed in the glen before Raefindan silenced him.

You still grieve a little.

Don't you? How is it for you?

I wonder what it would have been like to become a woman who loved you.

You were already.

For years, I mean.

Now you get the chance to do both, but as my daughter.

Angela began to laugh for the sheer hilarity of it, and Mithrellas joined her for she had been listening all the while - without jealousy - which increased his love for her.

And so we receive reward and grace far beyond our desserts.

So it always is.

May it be so for Nimrodel.

Aye, may it be so for us all,

said the thought of Mithrellas.

"And some are always sundered," said Indil's child's voice with Angela's wisdom beyond her years.

"Yes. So it is for some among the Eldar."

"But even for the Eldar-" Raefindan paused "-beyond the walls of Arda's time, I believe that even those sunderings will be ended. And ours is a foretaste, thee and thee and me, for others to see, and to hope."

"I believe it may be so," Mithrellas said, "and as it is for us, so it is becoming for Amroth and Nimrodel. Look."

[littlemanpoet]

I think the answer to all your questions, lmp, is that everyone is dreaming, to a point. That's why people come and go with such alacrity, are called and summoned and released. And yet-- there is no waking. I accept this.

What to do with Avarien? Will she fade, and be a "rustic memory" in some glade somewhere? Essentially that is what she is now. Or will she go west?
She has received redemption ~ to fade seems impossible now...

And if you want Roy Edwards fully manifested at the Gilraen (you were correct)or at Marigold's house or anywhere else in the tale-- should we end it back at the Seventh Star?) you have my full blessing. The Tapestry of Dreams: all threads fully revealed! Dude, would that be COOL. Dude? :eek: I'm an art geek, not a dude. :p

I see Marigold's cottage as the equivalent of Rivendell & the Seventh Star as the equivalent of the Prancing Pony. But if we're going to take that further, then where will Mithrellas, Raefindan, and Indil call home? Surely not the vale? Certainly not Minas Tirith! Hoom hom indeed! Thoughts?

[Formendacil]

She has received redemption ~ to fade seems impossible now...

I wonder... *cough* Yes, I'm still following the threads here. Hopefully you'll permit a long-past minor member of the cast to put in his two pence.

Anyway, I wonder from a canonical perspective if redemption equals the impossibility of fading. Something about this notion feels off for me, and since the spirit of Tolkien is the aim of things here, I feel duty-bound to bring it up. If I'm lucky, it might stir the creative spirit a little.

Fading, with the Elves, is their natural course and path, and I think it can be argued that a refusal to fade would be a denial of redemption. This was the sin of Celebrimbor, in making the Rings of Power, and this sin being exploited is what led to Sauron creating the One Ring. It is notable, I think, to note what Galadriel says after she manages to refuse the Ring:

"I pass the test. I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel."
(my paraphrase. Emphasis on "diminish" is also mine)

It seems to me that if Avarien has been redeemed, then she would be able to fade, allowed to fade. To make the analogy with the younger children, she's able to lay down her burden like Aragorn (last of the "real" Númenóreans). Whereas Aragorn, a Man, dies, an Elf would fade.

At least... that's my gut reaction to the matter.

[mark12_30]

Hullo, Formendacil!

Nice to know yo uare reading. And thanks for the inputs about fading. Although-- depending on which sections you read, it's the unwilling elves that remained and faded, the willoing elves having gone west; and I recall that Tolkien was of the opinion (where DID I read that? and do I recall correctly?) that the unwilling, faded elves were not the sorts of spirits you would WANT To seek out and indeed would be better off NOT seeking them, becaues they aren't emnlightened elves and are more likely to be dark elves. :eek:

Different than Diminish, I think. Diminish I believe means to pass on the rule of Middle-earth to the hands of men, and move on to Whatever Is Next in the west. In the west, Galadriel would not be queen of one of the major realms, or indeed any realm, as far as I can guess. She would just be herself.

Wanna pick up (and wrap up) a character or two...?

You could even write a postscript for Aragorn to enter into the annals of Gondor... to be buried in their dusty library and forgotten?

[mark12_30]

I see Marigold's cottage as the equivalent of Rivendell & the Seventh Star as the equivalent of the Prancing Pony. But if we're going to take that further, then where will Mithrellas, Raefindan, and Indil call home? Surely not the vale? Certainly not Minas Tirith! Hoom hom indeed! Thoughts?

How about Dol Amroth...?

[littlemanpoet]

How about Dol Amroth...?Hmmm.... not as rulers, but as guests, I suppose....?

My two cents on Formy's welcome post: take it in light of Frodo as an example of what happens to Elves. He was called a most elvish of hobbits, wasn't he? My point is that Gandalf could see his spirit of light shining through his flesh, already in Rivendell before he even takes the Ring! Even more so is the effect on him of having endured that burden for so long so well, that he has become much like the Elves, of whom it is said that their bodily forms fade and their spirits become more visible - at least the Elves of the Light.

So perhaps Avarien's form is/has faded and her spirit, redeemed, is free to fly west....?

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, the last few posts seem to be set in the vale near the Gilraen. Is that right?

I was thinking about doing a post of Raefindan, Indil, and Mithrellas, and perhaps one or the same including Ædegard and Leafa, arriving at Marigold's cottage.

But to do that is to jump weeks forward in time, if they go in reality. If that's the case, I don't want to rush it. Do we need to have posts for travel? I'm hoping not, because that would be mere filler. Help, please?

[mark12_30]

I don't know how to resolve the glen at the Gilraen. I think we do need an "Oh, my goodness; it's over; now we can all go home" moment. I haven't given it any thought. What would that be like, among two elves, several Rohirrim, a scattering of other menfolk, and your Raefindan/Mithrellas/Indil family?

After all they have been through, I don't think they'd just scatter after a five minute goodbye.

I need to look at a map.

And I need to think about how this group of people would say goodbye to each other. Or would they all turn, together, and leave the glen, and travel together back to a place (which, I suppose, could be done in a single well-written post... TOlkien often did these things in a paragraph) , and say goodbye there? I guess that makes more sense. Would it be Minas Tirith?

[littlemanpoet]

I think they all need to go back to Marigold. Who wouldn't? Mellonin? She lives in Minas Tirith.

Erebemlin - Marigold, definitely
Taitheneb - she's on the way
The Rohirrim - she's hardly out of the way to Eorling country
Mellonin & Mellondu - your call
Raefindan, Indil, and Mithrellas - They have no reason NOT to go with the others to Marigold.

I like your thought for a final "it's all done, now what?" post. Perhaps we can discuss & rough it on the discussion thread here, and when we're happy with it move it to the story thread.

[mark12_30]

Mellondu is with Marigold now. She can keep him there, until Mellonin (and Ravion) arrive.

I'm tempted to make a dangling ending for Mellonin and Ravion. Perhaps an uneasy and unresolved friendship. Time will tell.

[littlemanpoet]

How would you feel about me writing for Ravion? Just throwing it out there. He's Orual's, not yours or mine, but because of the relationship with Mellonin, that creates different types of possibilities depending how you want to go about it. I'd of course have to go back and read a bunch of Ravion posts to get a feel, so maybe that's not such a great (time killing) idea.... :confused:

[mark12_30]

I trust you with Ravion. But it would take a lot of time. Writing them both is kind of eermy.

BTW, we have forgotten about Jorje. He cannot be neglected! What will he do?

Also I have forgottent he code for AE. In order to spell AEdegard. It must be hard for you to write the both of AEdegard and ... his girl... argh, aha! Argeleafa.

[piosenniel]

Æ - æ

Here's the list of the characters and how to make them - HERE (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=171365&postcount=3)

[mark12_30]

Thanks, Pio!

[littlemanpoet]

I trust you with Ravion. But it would take a lot of time. Writing them both is kind of eermy.If you don't mind this taking time, I'm okay with it.

BTW, we have forgotten about Jorje. He cannot be neglected! What will he do?Jorje will stay with his pack until it disperses. Question is, whom does he consider to be the Alpha of his pack?

[mark12_30]

Ugh, I forget. Didn't Jorje stay with Marigold? I hope?

[mark12_30]

Elempi: Since I gave you a rep recently and can't again yet, consider this "liked": :)
I think they all need to go back to Marigold. Who wouldn't? Mellonin? She lives in Minas Tirith.

Erebemlin - Marigold, definitely
Taitheneb - she's on the way
The Rohirrim - she's hardly out of the way to Eorling country
Mellonin & Mellondu - your call
Raefindan, Indil, and Mithrellas - They have no reason NOT to go with the others to Marigold.

I like your thought for a final "it's all done, now what?" post. Perhaps we can discuss & rough it on the discussion thread here, and when we're happy with it move it to the story thread.
:D

[littlemanpoet]

Actually, Marigold sent Jorje into the mountains to find the questers.

Thanks for the "like". :)

What do you want to do now? How can I help?

[mark12_30]

Elempi:

OK, this snapped into focus this morning whle I was riding my bike to the bus stop......

Your objection to having Mellondu at the mouths of the Entwash is correct. You are right: He's dreaming, not teleporting. Roger that! (Eh, and everyone else was dreaming, too. More or less. While they were wide awake.)

Anyway: Mellondu will be found downstream **from the glade**, pretty far below the modestly-sized waterfall. I'll write that soon. Jorje being still at Marigold's was a dream too: he will show up downstream, in the lowlands well below Mellondu, with the works of all his labor. With Marigold's guidance, He rounded up all the horses-- Good Dog!-- and led them east, then past Minas Tirith, then south, and then westward toward the glade. He's been waiting with them downstream. We can either make do in the story with the previous sentence, or, have a little fun with it-- your call.

So they will all journey east and then north together, and perhaps some will remain at Minas Tirith, some will go to Rohan, and some to Marigold's and beyond to Lothlorien.

What would you like to do with the nasssty dark elf Tharonwe?

[littlemanpoet]

Yay! :) (at the waking up)

Yes yes and yes.

Now for specifics:

I'd like to have some fun with Jorje. :)

Not sure about Tharonwe. He is like Saruman after having lost his power, and there are enough wise folk in the party to think of that, so they will want him under guard and no Ent-folk around to have wrong-headed compassioon. ;)

[mark12_30]

LOVE IT.

Good dog, Jorje!!!

[littlemanpoet]

:) What's next?

[mark12_30]

Oxygen. IOW time to breathe would be good.

Hey, since you are engaged and ready-- how would you like to write ...And they all took a deep breath and turned to walk downhilll, and-- golly, who is asleep on the moss? MELLONDU...?

All I ask is that Mellondu be dreaming in a deep green bed of lovely moss, on the riverbank. The bed should be cool, but also almost luxurious. Even though Mellondu is still wet and shivering with the cold, he is (for a moment) almost reluctant to leave the lovely moss.

Somehow the cold and the luxurious moss both seem terribly important. George MacDonald's influence, I think, and his cold beautiful sleep of death.

If you want it, it's all yours!

[littlemanpoet]

I'm game. I think I'll get into some debriefing - LOTR fashion - between the characters before they get to Mellondu - of course they'll be wondering where he is until then. Could be fun. :)

[mark12_30]

Off topic. I want to hone my Anglo-Saxon terse speech. Sage advice?

[littlemanpoet]

Off topic. I want to hone my Anglo-Saxon terse speech. Sage advice?Read Anglo-Saxon out loud, then speak it in modern English, then read it again out loud. In other words, really get to know what you're saying. There's Beowulf, Ancrene Wisse, Pearl, Finnesburg, etc.

Or, if I have misunderstood you and what you mean is that you want to use Anglo-Saxon rooted words more in your speech, then it's a matter of learning to readily identify what's Greek, what's Latin, what's Norman French, what's modern French, as opposed to Old English. It's not very hard to do that. Is that what you meant?

[mark12_30]

Yes and Yes.

I want to write more tersely-- again-- get back to the Rohirrim way of speaking.... and, simplify, simplify. More punch less francophication. 'Twould be well to speak thus.

So what's your advice for dodging greek, latin, and phrench?

[mark12_30]

Mellondu is now asleep in the moss on the riverbank.

Elempi, if you'd like you can debrief the team by the pond and have them start downstream, and find Mellonu.

[littlemanpoet]

Yes and Yes.

I want to write more tersely-- again-- get back to the Rohirrim way of speaking.... and, simplify, simplify. More punch less francophication. 'Twould be well to speak thus.

So what's your advice for dodging greek, latin, and phrench?Okay. :)

First thing is to "know your enemy". Recognize the typical shape and form of the borrowings.

Greek: many words ending in "os" or "as", or words that once did: logic, philosophy, any of the ology words. Anything medical usually comes from Greek, or a mix of Greek and Latin: "cardiovascular". Caritas. olympic, olympiad.

Latin: words from musical forms, such as "sonata". Any word ending in - -ous, -us, -um, -a, or -able, or -tion - - - is probably Latinate. Museum, marvelous, sonata, available. Many words having suffixes or prefixes that come from Latinate: Congress, community, proximity, association, festival.

Norman: beef, pork, ... any word that separates the clean from the dirty, as it were, or is a law word: warrant, bailliff

French: many words having "ou" in them, or bunches of vowels strung together (beautiful) or "gu": guarantee. unique.

English: swine. cattle. height. quote. Any strong verb: sit, sat; throw, threw. Many words with silent letters "gh".

Now, you tell me which of the pairings below is English and which is a borrowing from another language:

praise : glorify

colleague : partner

annual : yearly

foreigner : stranger : alien

punish : shrive

foe : enemy

many : several

:)

[littlemanpoet]

In post # 235, is the "she" referred to, Mithrellas? It's a little hard to tell.

If I understand correctly, we need to bring everyone back to Marigold now, right? I'll figure that's right. After all, why else bring the horses all the way around? I'll write a post of travel soon.

[piosenniel]

Is this RPG ready to be moved to Elvenhome? Or???????

[mark12_30]

Elempi, for "What's next" see this thread posts 928 and 929 (just on this page a bit upward.) Erebemlin needs to return to Marigold, most of the rest need to return home, and Mellondu needs to remain broken (what is his Frodo-sails-west parallel? Does Taitheneb adopt him for a few years ? Hmm, what do you think?)

Mellondu & Mellonin' s parents need to somehow resolve.

Maybe the whole thing needs an epilogue.

[littlemanpoet]

"Bump" acknowledged.

I will need time to reorient back to this story. We shall see this done this time.

Mellondu needs a journey with a goal that resolves his brokenness. It could come much later in life, but if Taitheneb is willing, the question is, is Mellondu willing? Wouldn't he rather be with Mellonin?

[mark12_30]

Is he more Mellondu the blacksmith or is he forsaken-Amroth-without Nimrodel? He got used to the allegiance and devotion of Erebemlin and Taitheneb, even as he resented it. Ravion he hasn't bonded with as much, and Ravion will be Mellonin' s New focus. She still loves Mellondu, of course, but he may feel skittish and in-the-way around the pair.

I'm not sure. Maybe he remains in Gondor and dreams of the departed elves to the end of his days. Or maybe he goes with them for a while, but the forests are silent, and Amroth and Nimrodel are gone, and their sadness does him little good. Or maybe he becomes the focus of their healing because they realize what he went through.

I envision the epilogue to be a sort of C. S. Lewis epilogue, wrapping up the details in a fairly brusque fashion, like the Gamba epilogue I wrote for The Lonely Star.

[littlemanpoet]

So is it that Mellondu essentially got taken over, body and soul? If so, then any Mellondu that is still there is severely damaged, not unlike Frodo because of the Ring. That's my thinking.

Or, if Amroth merely borrowed him, and Mellondu never was overwhelmed by the Elf's personality, then you have a different situation. Your call.

If Mellondu can recover, then I think that he will need both Mellonin and Ravion.

I think I like the idea of a brusque wrap up.

[mark12_30]

Mellondu started out as a willing volunteer and eager participant, until he grew tired of being taken for granted by Amroth (on the one hand) and then wanted Nimrodel to love him (Mellondu) for his own sake. Then he rebelled, and resisted Amroth, and it became a struggle for control. Some bargaining was involved, agreements were misunderstood on both sides (we heard /saw only hints of that) and in the end it was uncivil between the two. Nimrodel brought an uneasy truce.

Mellondu is heartbroken and disillusioned,on one hand, and on the other hand knows what he put Amroth through and how his subjects loved him. He has a hard time looking Erebemlin and Taitheneb in the eye.

Perhaps Erebemlin and Taitheneb take him under their wings for a year or two, and teach him some (proprietary) elvish skills, and then Taitheneb sails west and Erebemlin disappears with Marigold, and Mellonin returns home. Maybe he serves with Legolas planting trees in the city. Or helps Gimli repair Osgiliath and Minas Tirith.

[littlemanpoet]

If you can pardon me dipping into my knowledge of PTSD and related subjects, what you describe looks like something from which one could recover, because Mellondu never lost control of his own will. A whole lot of "body" work - such as helping Gimli for example - could bring eventual healing.

[mark12_30]

There was a struggle for control and Amroth won more than once, but I do think Mellondu could receive a good amount of healing through physical work. I think there will always be scars and regrets, and I doubt he'll ever marry.

What do Liornung and (what's her name) do?

[littlemanpoet]

Liornung and Bellyn? I haven't a clue. I suppose Liornung would go on his merry way, with his immensely fulfilling life as a troubadour. I suppose Bellyn might just join him? She seemed to be leaning toward that, don't you think?

[mark12_30]

Agreed. They harmonize well. Good characters...

Does Ravion join (or rejoin) the Ithilien rangers that are free to do other things now after the war?

Should we split the group and split the epilogue? You could write Raefindan, Indis and... your third character, I've forgotten her name... and Tharonwe, and Liornung and Bella. And don't forget Jorge.
I could cover the ghosts-- oh, names names names. The pickpocket and his troubled sister. Nimrodel and Amroth I think should remain mysteries; would it add anything to the tale to say they met in the halls of Mandos, were reborn, grew, and remarried, and lived happily ever after until the final music of Iluvatar? Although I suppose we could mention the voices of the stream and the wind on Cerin Amroth.

[littlemanpoet]

I'd say yes for Ravion.

I'd say that it would be unhelpful to split the epilogue. I kind of like the clean way Tolkien handled the end of LotR.

When writing the end for Amroth and Nimrodel, I suggest following T's example from Frodo.

I'm going to have to reread Part 2 when I get a chance so I can keep track of everything and everyone. I don't even remember that 3rd character of mine, at all. :P

[mark12_30]

She and Raefindan were an item, and they sort of adopted Indil. She comes from your other stories.

I'm extremely rusty too.

[littlemanpoet]

Ah yes, Angela. Good grief, I dragged a good bit of stuff in, didn't I! :p

[mark12_30]

You know, last time we went through this we made a character list....

[mark12_30]

Note to self: previous discussion thread posts which indicate nececssary tidy-up work:

838
863
Don't forget all those Rohirrim
891, 893
895, 897

Looked like good info. More to come.

And I forgot about Nurumaiel's wild Easterling boy.
Aeron and Gwyllion his sister, the ghosts.

[littlemanpoet]

Good idea. I was reading through the first page of posts. Much more to go. I'll work on it as I have time.

[mark12_30]

QUOTE
Bump.
Characters and themes that have yet to be worked in:

Note: everything below is suggestion, not certainty.


Aeron and Gwyllion are there to aid them, being ghosts, and this has been their destiny from the get-go.
Raefindan brings rain into the spirit realm where Amroth and Nimrodel hold their drama
Mithrellas - osanwë? Should she be Nimrodel's aid the way Erebemlin is for Amroth?
Ædegard - he's here for Mellondu - but what can he do?
Leafa - wow, I really don't know what to do with her past singing.
Jorje - I'm kind of lost here too.
Taitheneb returns - this is alak's task
Indil/Angela - I'd almost forgotten about her! What might she do?


Meanwhile, Raefindan continues to hold Tharonwë in check. Maybe I need to work on finding ideas for these characters from your posts, Helen. I'm really struggling with everybody but Tharonwë right now, and him soon too. I guess I like to know where things are headed in order to know what's happening now; not so good at just "following my nose". Hmm... not so good at prophetic writing. :( Any ideas?

EDIT: well, that worked in Gwyllion and Aeron after all, and Ædegard and Leafa a little bit; but they need more. I'm still thinking about that Raefindan/rain thing...

[littlemanpoet]

Thanks. This helps. I hope to have some time to look at this story in detail, perhaps through this weekend.

[piosenniel]

This Discussion Thread will be moved to Elvenhome.

I may be returned to the Game Playing forum upon request from the players.

~*~ Pio