WWJ X: Hithlum Zydeco Blues; Hísilómë in Hísimë

[Valesse]

Action. Adventure. Spit valves.

RULES:

Roles:
- 3 werewolves
- 1 seer
- 8 ordinary camp members

Werewolves: Each Night it is the werewolves' responsiblity to choose one camp member to attack. After doing so, message the moderator/co-mod with their victim's name. As always private messages to other wolves are not allowed during the Day, and (if it should come to it) if the number of wolves out weighs or matches those of the ordinary camp members the game is over.

Seer: Like the wolves, the Seer is to report into the mod/co-mod the camp member they have selected to dream about for the night. (We promise we won't tell ;)) They will be informed about that camp member's role. Seers are on the OCM's team and are treated accordingly. Feh! Seers! :p

Ordinary Camp Members (Ordo): Besides macho music skills, you have the power of majority. Good luck with that. Just like any other camps you might have gone to as children, there is to be no talking at Night. ..And no giggling either!


The Nitty-Gritty:

- Players must be in invisible mode.

- 24/24 Day-Night cycles. (Traditional)

- Revealled roles upon death.

- Werewolves are only to message one another (period) and should only do so at Night. The only exception to this is the first Day: because of time issues, the first night will not be part of the game ergo the wolves will be allowed to plot only on the first Day. (The Seer will also be allowed one day-dream, don't worry. ; ) )

- Limited retractable voting will be allowed.

- Players are to be in invisable mode at all times while they are in the game.

- There is to be no Double-lynching.

- Players have a two day Missing-In-Action limit. That is, if they fail to post and/or vote in two days they will become an additional victim. This fate does not exclude werewolves.

- No narration clues will be given even if it is very tempting.

- Editting is for grammar or spelling only. You are encouraged to take your time in making your posts as accurate as possible originally.

- Traditional vote style (++ M31k0r) and in the case of a retraction (-- LOLeves). Votes are to be made in a line all of their own for easy spotting, and are encouraged (but are not limited) to be in and or near the end.

- Posts concerning conflicts should be stated in the TiG Jr thread

- As far as urgent matters are concerned PM Valesse and Gil-Galad.

[Valesse]

An Afternoon in Hìsimë...:
It had been a long day's trek.
Currently the team found themselves in some sort of clearing, if one could call it that. It was getting late, and a mist had enveloped them a few hours ago, growing thicker and thicker as time went on. Now it was nearing sunset and visibility would only worsen until the heat of the next day would drive it off. In short, it was time to put up their tents and build a fire. Fortunately, the camp members were almost humorously well prepared with their tents, and pails, and plates, and spoons. Within an hour the fire was blazing, and each person had their own private tent furnished with everything from bed rolls and buckets to candlesticks and in the case of Eomer, the publican, a fully functional wet bar... but most imporantly they all had their instruments.

It was Gil-Galad and Valesse's idea. He, an artisan spoon player, and she, a Master accordionist, had sent word far and wide over the less wilder lands that a great Zydeco Camp (unconventional instruments welcome) was to be held. However, what skill they had with their music or over-packing, they lacked in actually camping, and there-in laid the first problem.

It was quickly growing dark, and the camp members formed a circle around the fire for their first lesson. But before it started the two camp leaders had discovered something dreadfully wrong. In charge of directions it was Valesse's responsiblity to lead the team to their proper destination but, in actuality, she had the map turned up-side-down most of the journey and now --as best as they could figure-- they were deep in Hìsilómë.

...

Hoping that the camp go-ers were none-the-wiser of their mistake, Valesse asked "What is music?" as she and Gil-Galad joined them at the fire.
Taken back by the simplicity of the question, Kuruharan quickly replied "Melodic sound."
"I've always considered it a kind of way to communicate without speaking" let out Roa_Aoife, thinking deeply.
"You're all off." Glirdan sighed, rolling his eyes. "Music is art."
Gil-Galad sat nodding, agreeing with everyone as they took their turn to reply before speaking up himself. "Music is all of these things...but most importantly, it gets me money."
"And how!" Macalaure cried merrily, raising his glass.

Valesse cleared her throat sternly and continued into lecturing the different theories of music and it's effects. After an hour of this it became obvious that the speech wasn't completely original, as she had to excused herself to replace the batteries in her walkmen. While she was gone, Gil-Galad raised his hands in the air and promised he wouldn't let this happen again, and instructed the camp members to go get their instruments before Valesse had time to return.

They did, and as a reward, were allowed to break the ice by playing their favorite songs until it was time to call it a night.



Day 1, Morning:
Not only was the mist still around in the morning, it seemed to be thicker... Now to the point where only the torches of each respective tent were blurry signals of something beyond the five feet of visable world. This did not dampen the camp's moral, however, and around the camp fire they waited for the leaders to instruct them on their first day's lesson.

"It's been an hour" moaned Valier, the town pickler, who's claim to fame was her successfully pickled zebra.
Mormegil nodded "And it's also been wet. I didn't expect this kind of weather at all."
"Maybe..." Formendacil hesitated "Maybe we should check to see if they're up?"

Using her unique skills, Mithalwen shooed her peers over toward the camp leaders' tents, but as they closed in, each became more and more aware of the eerie tingle of hair raising on the back of their necks. First, they peaked inside of Gil-Galad's tent, eager to wake him before the Valesse in fear of another kind of lecture. What they discovered terrified them.

The utter silence of their screams echoed around inside of the tent, which had been obviously quite well sacked. It was simply amazing to them that no one had heard the noise at all during the night. Inching closer, the campers found Gil-Galad at a folding table which he had brought in order to write his nature-inspired spoon melodies on. He was slumped over, and carefully, Nogrod the idle fanatasist surveyed the damage quietly. Gil-Galad, the talented artisan, had been choked by his own spoons.

Out of fear, the group rushed to Valesse's tent, throwing open the flap to see her leaning over her accordion strangely. With extreme caution, JennyHallu nudged her shoulder and shrieked to find that, not only was the B Flat key off of the accordion broken and removed, but it was replaced into the accordionist. Without further hesitation Jenny let out a loud cry "She's been stabbed with... with... A Sharp key!"

"Who could have done such a thing?!" Kitanna studdered, fighting back tears.
"Not 'who', but 'What', didgeridoo-er" replied Nogrod. "These crimes were not commited by people, but wolves! Just look at the fur and the scratches all over the victims!"
Curious, Eomer inquired "But how does a wolf choke..or stab someone?"
"Not just any wolf..." gasped Macalaure, pointing at a typical calling card and taunting letter "Werewolves!"

Quickly the mass of campers circled the scrawling, squinting and mumbling as they read out loud the message:

'Trust us three, we did you a favor by bumping off the Accordionist,
But we're serious about kill you all! Thats why we nabbed the Spoon-artist, too.

Sinc...- Your's Truely,
the three wolves.'

"Three!" choked Roa_Aoife. "Three werewolves!"
"And they're all probably standing right here with us, playing along..." grumbled Nogrod.

The Living:
Roa_Aoife- trick pilot, double-necked electric guitar.
Valier- town pickler, piccolo.
Macalaure- unskilled inventor of funny fake occupation ideas, on the verge of bankruptcy, tuba.
Mithalwen- cat-herd, viola.
JennyHallu- street corner doom-sayer, aeolian wind harp.
Nogrod- idle fantasist, tin whistle.
Mormegil- non-practicing wizard, triangle.
Formendacil- pirate, pipe organ.
Eomer of the Rohirrim- publican, double-bass.
Kitanna- hermit, didgeridoo.
Glirdan- town musician, sax.
Kuruharan- condottieri, flute.

The Dead:
Valesse- Master Accordionist (Mod) stabbed with A Sharp key.
Gil-Galad- Artisan spoon player (Mod) choked on his musical spoons.
______________

Day One has begun.
Wolves- plot,
Seer- day-dream
And Ordos start discussing.

[Formendacil]

Well. Here we are again... Day 1.

Do I really need to repeat how much I rather dislike them?

No?

Excellent.

Okay, since post-by-post analyses are all the rage these days, and also since no posts have occurred yet, let me give you a rundown of what WILL happen:

Lot's of in-character posting, followed by lots of misinterpretation thereof, followed by voting that is either random or based on misinterpretation. Day 1 will be completely useless as long as it lasts.

Of course, once Day 4 rolls around, it will be found supremely useful, but at the moment it will be no help in catching a werewolf. If we're lucky, we'll do that by accident.

People will disagree with me.

Morm, in particular, will disagree with me, unless and/or until one or the other of us is found to be Innocent.

Eomer of the Rohirrim will set off all sorts of instinct alarms before being lynched. He may or may not be guilty.

We will kill various Innocents.

We will kill or come close to killing the Seer. If we don't get him, the Werewolves will.

I will come back in the next hour or three... to respond to people who disagree with me. :p

[Kuruharan]

Lot's of in-character posting

Far be it from me to disappoint...

Saluti, Amici! How are things? Hmm…not so good perhaps, eh? Put’s me in mind of the time that Francesco Sforza tried to murder me by seeding my bodyguards with assassins. Ugh! Everybody was stacked up like…but perhaps this isn’t the time for that story!

Rather than bemoaning our DAY ONE fate, I'm going to ask if anybody has any bright ideas for improving this silly comedy that traditionally ends up with an innocent bambino being strung up leaving a wide range of clues pointing in all the wrong directions…

[Nogrod]

Rather than bemoaning our DAY ONE fate, I'm going to ask if anybody has any bright ideas for improving this silly comedy that traditionally ends up with an innocent bambino being strung up leaving a wide range of clues pointing in all the wrong directions…Just a quick comment to this. Let's play hard on Day1 too. Just check here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=12872&highlight=crossing) what may happen on Day1 - and how it can be played... :)

[JennyHallu]

*JennyHallu walks up with an odd-shaped wooden contraption. She sets it down, adjusts it carefully, and walks away as it begins to produce all manner of delicate breathy un-melody. As she sits by the campfire, she wipes a tear from her eye*

Ah, I am just such a maestra.

Anyway, to settle down to business, the WORLD is GOING to END.

Eventually.

Someday.

Soon.

But not today. At least not if I can help it. These malevolent monsters may indeed be the sound of Armageddon, but I have lived my life with one goal, and one goal only: to die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather. Not screaming like the passengers in his car.

These wolves offend my sensibilities. The end of the world should be a calm, civilized affair. No blood.

I am all for killing them first, and certainly I believe it can be done today.

[Kuruharan]

It is usually considered bad form to make direct reference to other games, much less link to them.

[Formendacil]

It is usually considered bad form to make direct reference to other games, much less link to them.

As far as THAT goes, I think most of us have given up not referencing other games... but I agree that linking is rather poor taste. It puts the onus of finding out what you mean on us, the readers, when it would be easier for you to summarize your point from the game, and have us take it on trust.

And there have been enough players in enough games that most of us would be able to soon find out if you were lying.

Oh, and I foresee that referencing other games shall be the first big issue toDay. It beats taking offence at nothing but in-character posts, I suppose. :rolleyes:

[mormegil]

*ding*

*ding*

*ding*

My triangle sure sounds good doesn't it?

Well I must get this out of the way quickly...

YOU SHALL NOT PASS FOUL HOUND OF SAURON I AM WEILDER OF THE FLAME OF ARNOR....Well perhaps I'll just remove my cloak here...."

Glad to see Formendacil is still intransignet in his stance on Day 1's. Odds are a bit better with 3 of them and 9 of us now isn't it?

[Glirdan]

The impudence of these so called "music lovers" makes me sick. If any of you truly knew what music, I think I'd die of a faint.

Now, on to more pressing matters: Wolves. In a Music Camp. Whoever hear of that!? I mean, do Wolves even like music!? Anyway, the only way we can find out is by tuning(ha! I made a pun!) them out and ridding ourselves of them. Then we can REALLY get to playing music.

Lot's of in-character posting, followed by lots of misinterpretation thereof, followed by voting that is either random or based on misinterpretation. Day 1 will be completely useless as long as it lasts.(Form)

And will forever remain that way unless you do something to tune up (ha, another pun!) your attitude. Look at this Day as a Day filled with....with...okay, I agree. Tis a useless Day, but a necessary Day. Your negative attitude is rather annoying. But I have to agree with everything you said. However, I think we should look at Eomer being amongst us as helpful. I would like to add something about our dear publician: any bandwaggons for this individual shall be looked as suspicious tomorrow, if he's dead and proven innocent that is.

Rather than bemoaning our DAY ONE fate, I'm going to ask if anybody has any bright ideas for improving this silly comedy that traditionally ends up with an innocent bambino being strung up leaving a wide range of clues pointing in all the wrong directions…(Kuru)

Not anything from me at this point. But something may pop up later on in the Day.

May I ask why we must discuss previous villages? Tis a bad thing to do, especially since none of them are musically inclined and all have had a different outcome. Just because you can judge somebody from how they played in one game doesn't mean you should in another, especially if someone decided to change their playing style. So, I would much rather focus our discussions toDay on something more useful. What, I cannot say at this time. But when an idea comes to mind, I shall come forth and let my saxophone tell the story. Until then, adieu.

[Macalaure]

Werewolves, eh?

Ah! All the misfortunes of Arda seem to come upon me! Who is going to buy my funny occupations now in this state of fear and insecurity?

And I cannot even find relief in my music anymore with these hairy, bloodthirsty creatures appearing to cower behind my back any minute. Woe upon us all!

What to do now, what to do...
It is true that my father, who succumbed to the Helcaraxë (and the Angperor Penguin), lived in a village which was able to lynch a wolf on Day 1, but many happy and unhappy circumstances lead to this, so I am not very optimistic at all. 3 wolves, 9 innocents, 25% a chance, it doesn't get any better than that, I fear. But if somebody has an idea to improve it I would very much like to hear about it. Anyway, given the disastrous reputation of Days 1's, I doubt it.

And by the way:"And how!" Macalaure cried merrily, raising her glass.
I'm male. :D

And:
- Limited retractable voting will be allowed.
How much is 'limited'? I'd prefer only 1.

[Valier]

Ahh Werewolves!!!!:eek: Hmmm would they be good pickled?

I say we catch these fiends and make them pay! Oh poor Valesse and Gil-galad! Not that I won't miss the racket they both mad when they played together....yyyeeccckkk! But what has been done to them is wrong, just wrong!

I know the first Day is maddening and sometimes dull, but we must make the best of it and do what we can. If we hear from everyone toDay, that gives us a little to go on and something to base our suspicions on later on in the Days to come.

[Formendacil]

And will forever remain that way unless you do something to tune up (ha, another pun!) your attitude. Look at this Day as a Day filled with....with...okay, I agree. Tis a useless Day, but a necessary Day. Your negative attitude is rather annoying. But I have to agree with everything you said.

Until such time as villagers in general get the idea into their heads that their attempts to catch a wolf on Day 1 will be nothing but luck... I shall continue to rail against them. 'tis only tradition, 'tis only fact I speak, and the overweening optimism of those thinking to catch a wolf by deductions on Day 1 is grating.

By all means, vote, make noise, and look for something interesting... but to expect it to get you anywhere at this time is foolishness.

[Nogrod]

= Kuru
It is usually considered bad form to make direct reference to other games, much less link to them.I'm sorry. I clearly haven't gotten used to the right taste in this. Even though I know this is a subject of debate anyway.

But my point remains.

= Form
Until such time as villagers in general get the idea into their heads that their attempts to catch a wolf on Day 1 will be nothing but luck... I shall continue to rail against them. 'tis only tradition, 'tis only fact I speak, and the overweening optimism of those thinking to catch a wolf by deductions on Day 1 is grating.If these kinds of ideas come more common, they become the general excuse of not committing any real ideas on Day1. That plays into the wolves hands, not on the villagers (sorry: campers).

Day1 can make the difference - and that's why I wished to show you an example. Just check how the game can be played! There, it's not a question of luck, but of an athmosphere where everyone had to show some real participation - so the wolves (ie. penguins) couldn't hide behind the babble of pure in-character talk or the distaste of Day1's - and they were caught (one on Day one - and the others very soon on the basis of Day1 things, and they were no stupid penguins...)!

And now I'm shooting myself to my leg as I have to say that I'm not going to be in for a while (a bio & first post upgrade + scheming with Celuien in the Meadhall waiting, pronto, and the clock says it's 3.25AM here). But after I wake up, I'll be in with more substance - if possible.

[Kuruharan]

Ecco! Something just occurred to my fantastically enlightened brain!

(Maestro, make sure that portrait is of my right side. We want to get the flute in proper perspective.)

It seems to me that perhaps Signore Formendacil could be acting just a shade manipulative. His predictions could be a cleverly concealed tactic to direct behavior in a particular direction...since once predictions are announced, people have a tendency to perversely do the opposite. However, this might speak in his favor since he's lamenting...

(more polenta, per favore...)

...the lack of effective action on DAY ONE.

Still, it could be a clever little tactic. I do so love clever little tactics! Like this one time I'd hidden my cavalry in a ravine behind the enemy's flank, and...

[Glirdan]

Still, it could be a clever little tactic. I do so love clever little tactics! Like this one time I'd hidden my cavalry in a ravine behind the enemy's flank, and...(Kuru)

Actually, I must agree with you that it does seem odd that Formendacil keeps bringing up the fact that Day 1's are totaly useless until later on (which makes me ask why are you so negative about them if they become so useful which you said yourself?[directed to Form]) Perhaps he is using this little tactic to hide behind and make himself look less suspicious and merely his normal non helpful self on Day 1. Well, we'll never know unless we lynch him and frankly, I really don't want to vote now, but I may have to do so (It's Canada's Day tomorrow and I will be away from a computer all day). Therefor, my vote is

++Formendacil

Basically completely random. I must depart now. Good day to you all.

[mormegil]

Basically completely random. I must depart now. Good day to you all.

Now this is something that always gets me. He just got done agreeing with Kuru and then 'random' votes for Formen. I don't know what to think because Glirdan seems to always be suspicious to me no matter what. So I'm uncertain if it is just mere indolence or something more malign.

Anyway, Kuru asked for productive ideas and here is one. We could assign everybody two other campmates to watch very closely and observe on a more detailed basis. The chances of the wolves getting each other would be slim but even if they did it would be great because after we kill a wolf it might be fairly obvious.

It would go something like this

Morm watches Glirdan and Kuru

Kuru watches Jenny and Formen

Formen watches....you get the picture.

Each person will be watched directly by two people and will be responsible for two. This will break up everybody watching trying to take in all the info and will break it up in more managable pieces. Also people won't slip through the cracks, so to speak. Now it would be imperative for every innocent to view their targets with an open and objective mind. Far too often we fall for the trap of concluding that somebody is a wolf then proving it with any shred of evidence. I'm probably the most guilty of this crime :rolleyes:.

[Roa_Aoife]

Until such time as villagers in general get the idea into their heads that their attempts to catch a wolf on Day 1 will be nothing but luck... I shall continue to rail against them. 'tis only tradition, 'tis only fact I speak, and the overweening optimism of those thinking to catch a wolf by deductions on Day 1 is grating.

You know, as the one who caught Boro-wolf on Day 1 using reasonable deductions, I find that statement mildly insulting. :p (Why must everyone attirbute my accomplishments to luck and not my own skill?)

Morm, that problem with your plan is that we have wolves in the mix. Even if we have two people watching one, we could have a wolf watching a wolf, and making the innocent look bad, or two wolves watching an innocent and making that innocent look bad, or one wolf watching an innocent and still managing to hide.... you get the point. We still can't trust anyone. At least not yet, when we don't know anything. (Ever the advantage of the wolves.)

Anf frankly, Form, if you think it ought to be obvious that Day 1's are useless, why bother stating it? Face facts- those who think they are useless will continue to think so. Those who think they aren't will continue to do so. The only thing statements like yours do is sidetrack us from the problem at hand.

Of course, that may just be your plan. You keep posting, but you aren't saying anything new or useful. Get over yourself and move on.

[Nogrod]

Just going to sleep but can't help commenting on this...
Anf frankly, Form, if you think it ought to be obvious that Day 1's are useless, why bother stating it? Face facts- those who think they are useless will continue to think so. Those who think they aren't will continue to do so. The only thing statements like yours do is sidetrack us from the problem at hand.I totally agree! But would still like to point on a problem not openly stated in Roa's answer.

If people think Day1's are useless, why not to skip them all? The only trouble is, that then Day2 will become a new Day1 etc. And if we skip Day2 then with similar reasons...

We need people to open the game and start actually going into the bussiness. One of the main reasons I despise people who a) mock Day1's as an excuse on not to do anything ,or b) basically take on the strategy of posting minimally with no substance, is that it creates an inbalance in the game. Those who really invest in the game = actually play, will be the ones in the lynching-line in the beginning of the game, and those who just hang around (with evil intentions or just being clever enough in that sense) can lay back easily in a game where being lazy is the norm.

The problem is. In a village (a camp) where everyone just hangs around, nothing happens. Hanging around requires something to hang around on! So in a sense all those "I hate Day1's" or "I'll post only once aDay some nonsense" -people are parasites, drinking the blood of those who actually play. And that is morally quite low...

Think of a village inhabitated with 15 Forms! Everyone would just exclaim how stupid saying anything is. How could they decide their votes on any Day? Their Day1 would become Day2, Day3 etc... And surely, they would have made sure, that their votes had been in random, because there is nothing to go for... understandably. :(

But where's the fun? Where's the excitement? Where's the struggle? Where's the game?

Where's the reason to play anyway?

[Roa_Aoife]

I strongly suggest we move on from arguments for/against Day 1. It will only cause unnecessary confusion and draw us away from our goal.

I have to go, as it's nearing midnight here. (I can't imagine what Nogrod was still doing up.) I'll be back on shortly after my alarm clock wakes me up, but I'll have to go several hours before the deadline.

Give me something to analyze when I get back, okay? (Whee! Analysis!)

[mormegil]

Morm, that problem with your plan is that we have wolves in the mix. Even if we have two people watching one, we could have a wolf watching a wolf, and making the innocent look bad, or two wolves watching an innocent and making that innocent look bad, or one wolf watching an innocent and still managing to hide.... you get the point. We still can't trust anyone. At least not yet, when we don't know anything. (Ever the advantage of the wolves.)

So what really is the difference between this and the normal other than the wolves are forced to focus on few and when we detect they are deliberately making people look bad they are exposed to a seer dream or a village lynching? Afraid?

[Roa_Aoife]

So what really is the difference between this and the normal other than the wolves are forced to focus on few and when we detect they are deliberately making people look bad they are exposed to a seer dream or a village lynching? Afraid?

In this instance the wolves are better able to either redirect us, or hide. I would also like to point out that if we catch a wolf, following your plan would inhibit our ability to review his/her interactions to find the others. Not only that, but it prevents the villagers (campers) from looking in all directions, thus putting blinders on them and forcing to only look in a specified direction. One person may pick up what all others would miss.

Who is making the assignments? You? How do we know you're not wolf, and that you won't keep you or one of your fellows covered like that? Also, as people get lynched, different villagers will be left unguarded, and so slip under the radar, which is exactly what you say you mean to prevent with this plan in the first place. It may have looked good at first, but there are too many flaws in it to work right.

Afraid? I'm afraid of the limits your idea would place on our ability to think for ourselves.

[Formendacil]

(which makes me ask why are you so negative about them if they become so useful which you said yourself?[directed to Form])

Actually, I didn't always hate Day 1s...

They've always been my least favourite day in WW. The only concrete thing in the game is the voting record and the night kill record. Any speculation pertaining thereto is mere speculation, until and unless you kill someone.

Then you find out.

And on Day 1, there is no voting record. There is no night kill record (the Mod doesn't count).

And, being of the sort of mind that I am, this means that I am a rather not-fan of Day 1s. I think on one game... back about XVIII or so... I stated rather more strongly than usual just how pointless it is to try and find "evidence" on Day 1. The evidence in Day 1 doesn't crop up until Day 2 or 3 or 4 or... you get the picture.

Well, I being a creature of habit, and habits being what they are... my hatred of Days 1 sort of devoloped into the approved version of Formendacil-in-Werewolf, and, not having anything better to do, I was content to let it be. I am a great respecter of tradition, Werewolf or otherwise, and it would be a shame just to let a tradition die because you all wanted it... and the core reasons for disliking Day 1s remain quite entrenched in my mind.

But if you want to know the REAL reason.... ordo, gifted, or wolf, I like tweaking people's noses. Especially the people like Morm and Roa who are so terribly tweakable...

[Formendacil]

Think of a village inhabitated with 15 Forms! Everyone would just exclaim how stupid saying anything is. How could they decide their votes on any Day? Their Day1 would become Day2, Day3 etc... And surely, they would have made sure, that their votes had been in random, because there is nothing to go for... understandably. :(

No, it wouldn't...

All the Forms would have to vote on Day 1- and being Forms, they would do that.

And then there would be a voting record. And then a Night Kill.

And then things would get interesting.

There is no such thing as a truly, 100% random vote. It simply does not exist, short of draws for names- and I've rarely, if ever, seen that happen.

No, all the "random" votes that float around have SOME reasoning... Not deduction based so much as instinct based, a vote based on a dislike or a gut feeling. Or, in the case of wolves, a very careful crafted vote to make them look innocent, or to make them look like helpful innocents, or to set up a well-crafted, low-key disagreement between themselves and another wolf.

The difficulty is that the Wolvish rationale and the Ordo rationale cannot, typically, be differentiated on Day 1 itself. It is only with the passage of time and the possession of a Kill record that these things come to bear importance.

But where's the fun? Where's the excitement? Where's the struggle? Where's the game?

Where's the reason to play anyway?

In two words: Day 2. :p

[Formendacil]

Afraid? I'm afraid of the limits your idea would place on our ability to think for ourselves.

Most of the great Morm-plans of Werewolf have had a tendency to do that... :p

Seriously, it's really a great comfort to see Morm being his normal, grand scheming self... it means he's perfectly normal, albeit a bit early. This sort of behaviour doesn't usually set in until Day 3ish...

Morm's plan, however, changes little about the real village dynamics.

The Wolves are still intent on deceiving everybody, and everybody is still intent on finding them. The Innocents are still going to bark up entirely the wrong trees, and the Wolves are still going to get caught by the most absurd things.

It might even benefit the wolves to follow Morm's plan. Instead of having to deceive a whole village, each wolf only really has to deceive two people- a potentially much easier task.

Really, I don't see much of a benefit to the village... In fact, the only REAL difference that I'm seeing is that it allows Morm to play organizer. While the chances of Morm being Wolvish are nearly nil in my opinion... the possibility is enough to make me shy away from his grand scheme...

Okay, enough replies now... Off to the other forums, and then to bed. Back before the deadline, I hope.

Unless someone makes a reply in the next little bit, of course.

[Mithalwen]

Hello...... time for token in character post "Here kitty, kitty, kitty..."

Too hot, too sleepy and too soon to get into analysis and random observations are more my thing so...

Form giving his spiel re day ones seems a little too formulaic... he did it last time we played but just seems maybe a bit contrived. He was innocent then btu know I wonder if he is trying to set up one of those "just x being x" type assumptions. Not saying a huge suspicion .. just something to look at...

As Roa, and Nogrod have pointed out ..day ones can be very productive. The number of Fenris wolves bear that out. Given the unusual day 1 scenario.... with wolves pming privately between themselves as they speak openly to us all and a seer getting their dream.. there may be more stuff to watch out for than usual.

Going to have another read.. then perhaps another post before a few hours of arpeggios and a longer spell online with more to look at....

[Mithalwen]

V quick cos I have 3 inutes left on the library pc...


dun likd Morms plan ... if I get another time slot I will expalin...
Glirdan - I don't know if wolves like music ..their singing leaves a lot to be desired. But cats love music just ask Signor Rossini!

[Mithalwen]

Sorry about the triple post but - seemingly I am talking to myself .... or just to my cats...

This is a small village with so far few posts. I can't help thinking that everyone looking at everyone else is so much more likely to produce results at this stage. Also, speaking personally, given that I don't know that anyone else is innocent, I would prefer to read for myself even if there were hundreds of posts. We don't know that the designated analyst is not trying to put a spin on their interpretation.

Analysis is all very well when it produces some insight but too often what people claim to be analyses are merely summaries which clutter the thread. Without these reports it would be easier for the other players to read what X actually said rather than what Y said X said. Screeds of "analysis" are often used as smoke machines by wolves.

The other factor is that instinct can be as useful as logic and certain people read some people better than others either because they know them very well or becasue they know them little and aren't so bound by prejudice. How to allocate watchers to best advantage? Also some people have an near uncanny ability to spot wolves. If Valier, for example, is innocent and on form the last thing we want to do is cramp her style.

Later in a huge game, there might be a case for dividing the burden of post review, but not here, not now..

[Macalaure]

I'll be off the computer for a while now and cannot promise to be back before the deadline.

Random vote (believe it or not):

++ Nogrod

I really hope to be able to retract and cast a new vote with at least a little reason later.

[mormegil]

Random vote (believe it or not):

I never do. This is one thing upon which I agree with Formen; votes tend not to be random no matter what the voter says.

Nice to see that once again my plan is mere drivel. It does seem a decent idea to me and I can see both advantages and some disadvantages but I am trying to help, unlike some :rolleyes:. Kuru asked for more than inane first day role playing and banter and I think I provided some of that as some serious disussion was given, not much but some.

On the other hand, Formendacil seems to be able to carry our conversations away into the ever productive topic of hating first days. Always a lot of good comes from such conversations. Formen you complain about innocents being lynched for specious reasoning, yet you are a catalyst for many of these lynching due to your constant maunderings about day 1. Inevitably you get WW zealots trying to convert you into loving it and day one is spent being utterly unproductive because the conversation is spent around it...now you have me talking about it :mad: .

++Glirdan

Call it 'random' ;)

No, his vote stuck out to me and his willingness to jump on the Formen suspicion train was startling.

[Nogrod]

Oh my! How pathetic!

What I mean, let's do something people! There are two grand-scale football games today and I guess many of us will be away from this game to follow them. :p

I'll start then...

I find quite innocent:

Mith has been her reasonable and cool self. And that speaks in favour of her to my eyes. Sorry Mith, but you tend to play quite nervously when you have something to lose. :)

I personally am tended to lean towards arguments produced by Mith and Roa on the matter of Morm's plan. But just because I think the plan a bit crooked, I tend to believe him innocent. A wolf would have been much more careful and thought of the plan more before releasing it to actually appear helpful. Even if I believe Morm could pull the double-triple-whatever -bluff, it would seem far too risky to concentrate everyones attention to oneself with a controversial plan...

I have a faint suspicion:

Form seems to be his normal anti-Day1 campaigner. Although I think he has been more talkative and argumentative this time. I like the thing that he is involving himself more in the game. But why be so outspoken in this game?

Roa is reasonable as always, but that's just the scary part in her: she can pull it when she's evil. I always suspect Roa, almost always. I guess there has been one game where I trusted her...

Kuruharan is hard to judge because of the in-role posture that seems to stick. What Kuru actually says seems reasonable enough, but there is so little of it. And the mask? Well wolves love masquarades.

Glirdan's fast jump to foreseeable anti-Form -movement did look pretty bad. Here I agree with Morm. It's not much, but more than nothing.

Macalaure, not because he threw a vote for me, but because he threw a "random vote", underlining it's randomness. That's the way how wolves like to cloud the tracks they might leave by their voting record.


But probably I will be voting someone who actually tries to destroy the Day1's by not participating. Just from pure annoyance. Of course if there is even a half-reasonable case to make when the deadline approaches I will go with that.

And yes: we have Valier in the camp. It would not be a bad idea to just hear who she feels is a wolf and vote for that person. I might opt for that possibility too... :eek:

[Kitanna]

I have mixed feelings about Formendacil's Day 1 post. He points out what many feel/think which is a little troubling, but I feel he has simply tried to get what will most likely be said out there early so we can concentrate on more important. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that, but that's was my first reaction to that post. And in finding Formendacil's slightly troubling I also find the rebuttle posts of Nogrod and Roa troubling. Those two, more than anyone else it appears, continually return to commenting and bringing down Form's Day 1 post. I don't know what I find more disturbing, Form intial post that stated what was quite obvious, or Nogrod and Roa's (Nogrod more than Roa) continual thoughts on how useful Day 1 and how Form is in the wrong about it all. It brings about a loose theory in my mind about how this is staged and perhaps Form is a wolf and one of the others is too and they have this all planned for the village. But it's a loose theory and really more of a feeling and not something I would act on. Yet I will keep the thought tucked away in my mind for later use perhaps.

Each person will be watched directly by two people and will be responsible for two. This will break up everybody watching trying to take in all the info and will break it up in more managable pieces. Also people won't slip through the cracks, so to speak. Now it would be imperative for every innocent to view their targets with an open and objective mind. Far too often we fall for the trap of concluding that somebody is a wolf then proving it with any shred of evidence.
I like Morm's idea, but I'm not so sure about using it today or even on Day 2, but perhaps on Day 3. I worry, though, because depending on who is assigned to who a villager may be quieter than usual (whether they're innocent or not) for fear of being trapped in something. If you understand me. Also who would pick which villagers are going to watch which villagers. It could be a very good idea, but there is so much that could go wrong in it. I don't really think it something we should try for a Day or two.

Argh, I need to go lie down for a bit and I'll be back in an hour or so because I need to cast my vote early today.

EDIT: I want to make one point about Glirdan and his vote for Form. It's an early vote which he has explained, fair enough, but I don't really buy the whole random thing he attached to it. A lot of villagers are/were disagreeing with Form and he had called the most attention to himself thusfar, but I'm not so comfortable with how Glirdan jumped on it.

[Roa_Aoife]

And, I'm back.


Kuru asked for more than inane first day role playing and banter and I think I provided some of that as some serious disussion was given, not much but some.

I'll give you that. As far as I've seen, plans never go anywhere but certainly stir up a lot of dissension.

*sigh* Such a quiet village. I hate quiet villages. It's far too easy for a wolf to hide in. At least no one's started on about what the seer ought to be doing. *notices Nogrod hasn't come back yet...* Of course that may change.

The people who haven't shown yet are Eomer and Kitanna. I'm prone to give them a little lenancy given the way the game started. (They may not realize we started on a day phase as opposed to a night phase. )


So, discussion thus far has revolved around Day 1's and their usefulness, and Morm's plan and it's usefulness.

Well, Morm's plan was useful in that it gave us some direction in discussion. Talking abou Day 1's is about as useful as not talking at all, which it seems many people have opted for. Jenny? Valier? One post so far? Where did you go?

I'll be back in a bit with some more.

EDIT: Cross-posted with las two. Nogrod! You're Back!

[Kuruharan]

Who is making the assignments? You?

Ha-Ha! Obviously, he will. Then, we kill him. No, seriously. If we did it, that is how it would work. We’d let him make the assignments, and then we’d kill him to see if he’s honest.

Actually, might not be an entirely bad idea.

My glorious brain has a few things to chew upon.

Primo-I’m hesitant to kill one of the “useful” people because they are…useful. Unfortunately, I’m certain that at least one of them is a wolf.

Segundo-I’m hesitant to kill one of the “non-useful” people because that is the ultimate shot in the dark and you are much more likely to take out an innocent than a guilty.

Tercio-I’m probably going to vote for somebody useful today. I have a feeling my odds might be better.

But then again on the other hand, I might be able to combine both principles into one…Signore Eomer…

[Roa_Aoife]

Roa is reasonable as always, but that's just the scary part in her: she can pull it when she's evil. I always suspect Roa, almost always. I guess there has been one game where I trusted her...

*bats eyes* I love you, too. Was that the game where you were the Mod and knew I was innocent? Or the Game where you were the ranger and I was the seer? Or the game where you were a wolf who figured out that I was another wolf/the EW?

And yes: we have Valier in the camp. It would not be a bad idea to just hear who she feels is a wolf and vote for that person. I might opt for that possibility I will come back in the next hour or three... to respond to people who disagree with me. too...

My experience with Valier says that she needs a Day or two to really get onto the groove of guilty and not guilty. And also, her behavior will get more and more telling as to whether she is guilty or innocent. Be careful- if she's a wolf she can use this power against us. I wouldn't be opposed to testing the theory, later on. Not now.

Moving on, my two big suspects at the moment are Form and Glirdan. Form's rant about Day 1's may have been an attempt to clear the air and move everyone along, but he didn't believe that to be the case. He said in his very first post:

People will disagree with me....

....I will come back in the next hour or three... to respond to people who disagree with me.

He knew that his statements would be a source of argument and discussion in the village. It could be an innocent rant of someone who's stubborn and fed up, or it could be a clever smoke screen meant to confuse and distract the village. Itend toward the later because of this:

Well, I being a creature of habit, and habits being what they are... my hatred of Days 1 sort of devoloped into the approved version of Formendacil-in-Werewolf, and, not having anything better to do, I was content to let it be. I am a great respecter of tradition, Werewolf or otherwise, and it would be a shame just to let a tradition die because you all wanted it... and the core reasons for disliking Day 1s remain quite entrenched in my mind.

But if you want to know the REAL reason.... ordo, gifted, or wolf, I like tweaking people's noses. Especially the people like Morm and Roa who are so terribly tweakable...

The first paragraph looks like a rapid back-pedaling from his stance, which had gained him so much attention. I don't like back-pedaling; it's usually a predecessor to dodging and jumping, two very wolfish traits.

And in the sencond. he said himself that it was just to "tweak" people. Here he has stated that he had no purpose in his first post other than to stir up the people who like Day 1's. He openly declared that he was intentionally leading us into the pointless discussion.

Would a wolf intentionally draw so much attention to himself? Possibly, if he is intent on making Day 1's as useless as he claims they are. And now he's already starting to fade out again.


As for Glirdan, it's been said about six times, but his sudden jumping on the Form suspicion seems rather odd, even if he claimed it was random. However, Glirdan does little things like this often when he is innocent. (I've never seen him guilty, so I don't know if he does it then, too.) He has a bad habit being lynched on Day 1 for this sort of thing when he's just an ordo. I want to leave him alone for now.

I have to leave, and I won't be back on by deadline.

++Formendacil

I won't let you lead the village astray. And maybe I'm being nitpicky, but nitpicky is what catches those little details that point out wolves.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I was waiting for the first person to jump on board the case against Glirdan, whose only crime was to set the ball rolling against that pesky curmudgeon Formendacil. It was construed as 'Glirdan is jumping on Form-suspicion'

I don't buy it. I think Mormegil is trying to invent a decent reason for his Day One vote. And let's be honest: Glirdan is about as lynchable as they get. A good idea, but I see it for what it truly is: fangéd skullduggery. String him up!

++MORMEGIL

[Kitanna]

I hate to do this, but I must vote and not much as been said for me to go on since my last post. At least not much to help me make a better choice.

++ Glirdan

His jumping on the Form thing is just setting off alarms in my head. I really hoped it wouldn't come to me doing this, but I can't get one again. So I have to go with who I find the most suspicious.

But I'm still holding on to my earlier Form/Nogrod/Roa theory from earlier. I think two might be wolves trying to lead us all down a path of their choosing. I don't want to act on this yet, which is why I didn't vote for one of those three.

I'm sorry this is all so rushed.

[JennyHallu]

Hello, I'm here, the world is ending, and I'm going to sit and read carefully for a while. Don't eat bugs.


Glirdan, Morm, and Form all seem perfectly normal to me right now. By which I mean Form is always annoying, Glirdan almost always makes a "random" vote day 1, and Morm always takes it personally that people don't like being told what to do. What worries me is the silence from Valier, whom I think we all know is NOT a silent werewolf player. Does she know we started?

[Valier]

Sorry villagers!!! I know I have not been too helpful or talkative today, but as I said in the discuss thread today is a very special day for some of us....:p Thank you Noggie dear for having confidence in me and my feelings. I may be back before the vote, but I may not,so today is not a good feeling day for me, but I promise tomorrow I shall get busy catching us some wolves. I will read over what has been posted before I vote and hopefully be able to post a baddie, not baddie list today.

Oh Hi Jenny!! I'm here, but not for long. Sorry 'bout the quietness:D

[Valier]

Baddies

Kuru
Eomer
Form
Morm
Roa
Mith

Goodies

Kitanna
Jenny
Noggie
Mac
Me
Glirdan

Sorry I don't have time for my thoughts on each. I may be back to change my vote, I may not.


++Formendabras (Form)

His first Day rants are always a good cover for a Wolf.

[Mithalwen]

Oh my! How pathetic!

What I mean, let's do something people! There are two grand-scale football games today and I guess many of us will be away from this game to follow them. :p



Fie! certainly not the cats however are most intrigued by events in London SW19 and I had to see Mr Agassi for as long as I could bear it, and remember the days when he could "make the sky rain diamonds". Mr Murray..watching that is too traumatic... so I shall be around for a while but yes this is a masochistic game to play if you are of an anxious disposition...

[JennyHallu]

Frankly, I'm most suspicious at the moment of Kuruharan. He's said enough for a presence, but I don't think any of it has been meaningful.

And his bit on "useful" and "not-useful" people...which, exactly, are which? Look at our camp rolls...everyone here, to my mind, falls into the useful category.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Valier, while I have undeniable evil tendencies, I resent being lumped together with 5 others on the 'Baddies' side when there are but 3 wolves.

Formendacil, your stance is just so puzzling. There's oodles to think about here. You just have to wait until quite near the end of Day One.

[Nogrod]

Why do these football matches have to go to overtime & penalty shoot-outs all the time? (And have both metaphysically & poetically the "wrong results"!) :mad:

And it greatly distracts werewolf-playing...

A quick one first.

Kitanna has made me quite alarmed of her. Her way of bringing this quite ungrounded (surely it's thinkable) "loose theory" of Form, Roa & myself just in passing (but repeated) - and in the end not acting on it, but taking the "safe vote" for Glirdy seems quite wolvish to me. So she wishes to cast suspicion over some active players (Roa and me) linking them with somene who has been suspected already (Form), and then actually votes for another largely suspected one (Glirdy), cleaning her tracks nicely.

Back soon as I get to read a few things more carefully.

EDIT: X-posted with a couple of posts

[mormegil]

and Morm always takes it personally that people don't like being told what to do.

I love the stigma I have attached to me that I take everything personally :rolleyes:. I realize the irony in saying this too. No Jenny I put forward a simple plan to get things moving and it helped. I know that nobody ever buys into these plans on day 1 because some think that the person with the plan must be a wolf otherwise why would a plan be presented. Others feel it short-sighted, and some have this crazy notion that because an idea is presented that person must want to control everybody in the village and nobody think for themselves. :rolleyes:

[mormegil]

Sorry for the double..didn't want to edit.

I think the Formendacil campaign is borderline madness. I really don't see him as a wolf but rather as plain old Formen Day 1 hater and active at telling us so.

[Kuruharan]

I'm going to go ahead and vote...

++ Eomer of the Rohirrim

Mainly because he's not been around...much, and I can't think of anything better to do. I don't really want to join the Signore Formendacil bandwagon (although, mama mia, if he does turn out to be a wolf that will be awkward). I'm even less comfortable with the Signore Glirdan campaign.

WARNING: Vote under pressure and may change with little warning.

[Mithalwen]

Oh Valier has out me on the baddie list ...don't know whether to be flattered or insulted. Not yet on form clearly but at least I am in good company. Or perhaps really bad company. However, I can't help but think that her vote for Form is reasonable enough for day one (ref my earlier post) however as another Canadian he may have RL concerns too. However Wolves are not above voting for a colleaugue who has become conspicuous. Hmm. This is a very quiet camp and so today is likely to be fairly random. Huncehs may be the only way to go..

teh positive aspect of having such a strong group of players is at least it should discourage lazy voting. In many games there is a player or two who people can persuade themselves to vote for not because they find them especially suspicious but because they find them confusing, and if they turn out to be innocent there is at least the small grief-dividend that at least that person won't be around to mess with their heads.... I hope noone will vote too casually. I am uneasy about Form but I don't know if I am uneasy enopugh to vote for him yet. Of course if he ends up being the person who makes me most uneasy .....

OK know even I thinkI am rambling... will read again and hope theere is new material

As for your questions Noggin : 1, Dont know/care. 2, my grief is controllable 3, no it doesn't :p

[Nogrod]

So far we are here:

Formendacil 3 (Glirdan I, Roa IV, Valier VII)
Nogrod 1 (Macalaure II)
Glirdan 2 (Morm III, Kitanna VI)
Mormegil 1 (Eomer V)
Eomer 1 (Kuru VIII)

My guts say that Form is innocent. But Roa had a good point on her analysis on him and that's why I'm not sure. (Well, when one is sure about anything in a WW-game?)

Glirdan seems to be his normal self too. A bit careless and making odd turns and twists when he goes.

But of the other votees right now I know myself to be innocent and am inclined to view Morm as an innocent too.
----------------
EDIT: Eomer fits in the description of maintaining a presence but not actually saying anything. Good wolf tactics.
----------------
Kind of a dilemma here? At least for me it is...

Both Glirdy and Macalaure have thrown in the "random-vote" -stuff. That I always find suspicious, because - as Form has called repeatedly - the voting record is quite important thing. By claiming to use a random-vote one kind of washes his/her hands from the vote made. Very wolvish or at least wolf-helping... (think of everyone just saying their votes were random on Day1!)

I talked about my uneasiness about Kitanna in my earlier post.

I also share my worries with Jenny about Kuruharan. Being present but said little (that description surely is shared by many others), but Kuru's masquerade bothers me a bit - it might be just good fun (and I would be first to appreciate it as such), but as I said earlier, masks are the wolves best friends.

Some Brasil - France now and then back again...

[JennyHallu]

For now, at least, I'm going to vote

++Kuruharan

May change. Not sure.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Nogrod, may I ask just what makes the things most other players have been saying so much more fantastical and important than what I have said? It's true, I've not said too much. Though there may be much to think about on Day One, there's only so much original stuff any one player can inject into proceedings. As far as I can see, I have hit upon an idea (about Morm's vote) that no-one else has. So how does that make me "not saying anything"?

And I've deliberately kept my posts short and clear so that people might be tempted to consider what's in them. Too many words muddy the waters.

[Nogrod]

Nogrod, may I ask just what makes the things most other players have been saying so much more fantastical and important than what I have said?You may be right, but I'll answer you tomorrow if we are still alive then. Now I have to decide on a vote.

[Formendacil]

Bah!

I should have been back earlier... but life is life and I make no apologies for not being around.

Well, I really don't want to die... so I really seem to have one choice for voting: Glirdan.

So be it:

++ Glirdan

But I'd really rather not vote for him...

On that note, a quick scan of the rules didn't reveal a tie-breaking formula for lynching? Is it the classic first-one-to-the-top gets voted? Or the reverse (last one to get the most votes)?

Obviously, I'd prefer the latter.

Ten minutes and then not quite that many... Curses!

[Nogrod]

At least we have spread the votes considerably!

I'm not so happy to join lynching of Form - or making it Glirdan either. I'm inclined to think them both innocent.

As there seems to be no other viable chances of making a difference, I'll go with my suspicion

++ Kitanna

EDIT: X-posted with Form

[Formendacil]

I'm not so happy to join lynching of Form - or making it Glirdan either. I'm inclined to think them both innocent.

Well, to indulge in a little last-minute panicking (seriously, I've had a bad run of early WW deaths lately that I'd like to get out of...), and to be a little sarcastic here... if the normal WW No-Doubling-Lynchings convention is followed and the first person to reach the maximum number of votes is lynched, then by NOT voting for Glirdan, you've essentially done the same thing as vote for me.

The village may wish to take note of that, following my death- and assuming I'm guessing the rules aright.

[Nogrod]

I know, but I believe Glirdan innocent too...

Yes, the question of acting or omitting, the curse of those who vote late... :(

[Formendacil]

I know, but I believe Glirdan innocent too...

Yes, the question of acting or omitting, the curse of those who vote late... :(

Psst....

You can retract your vote!

[Nogrod]

Psst....

You can retract your vote!

I think it's being more up to those who have voted either of you two...

[Formendacil]

The Last Words of Formendacil:

Morm is Innocent.

[Mithalwen]

--
Nogtrod

++Glirdan

[Valesse]

Everyone stop posting, the day is done.
The story will be up in a few.

** It should be noted that Mithalwen and I cross posted/post-editted (I'm a slow typist), so her vote change will be included in the proceedings of the day.

[Mithalwen]

sORRY EVERYONE I MEANT TO POST NEW NOT EDIT TO CHANGE MY VOTE ...PANNICKED IN ERROR

[Mithalwen]

or RATEHR ERRED IN PANIC...BUT GUESS TOO LATE EEK...

[Valesse]

Greaving over the loss of a talented Spoonist and his accompaning accordion player, the campers were not statisfied by mearly disposing of the bodies and playing Taps (Which was already quite a feat for Kitanna, the didgeridoo playing hermit.) and openly discussed their personal feelings of that day. Not any more but a few words into his rant Formendacil started stirring up his fellow campers albeit not entirely on purpose, but only to rally his point.

"As useful as theme music to the hempin' jig, if ye ask me" growlled Dread Pirate Formendacil.
Astonished, Glidan jumped in "How could you even form those words together?!" before he could say anymore, distraught with the brashness of it all, he sat back down holding his head.
"I'm sure we can figure out who did this... logically," chimed in Mormegil, while striking his triangle joyfully, "It'll take more than poetic lynching referances, though."
"A vote, then?" Roa_Aoife mused, eyeing the crowd miserably struming her double necked electric guitar.

The other campers agreed and then went about questioning just what would determine the wolves and what kind of behavior could they expect to... expect when Mormegil snapped his fingers "What if I were to uncloak... the wolves would be--"

"NO!" cried the crowd. "It's bad enough when cannon characters do it," grumbled Kitanna who had been busying herself trying to open a can of beans.

"I can't stand this anymore... it doesn't set well with me..." Glirdan stood and pointed at Formendacil. "You must be the wolf! Music goes with everything, even the first day of a particuarlly involved hempin' jig! You're the wolf"
"Am not." retorted Formendacil.

Eomer stood and raised his hands in the air, asking for silence. "How about we write down one name each.. and put it in this drinking stein.. Whoever's name shows up the most is obviously the most suspicious and therefore the wolf. Sound fair?"
The campers shruged, nodded, and went about finding the camp leader's music sheets... as they did not want to ruin their own. Once each person dropped their paper into the stein, Kuruharan read them out loud.

"A tie?" Valier whispered, "Now what?"
"I suppose we lynch them both..." studdered JennyHallu.

Instantly the campers started hooting and hollering-- though it should be noted that there was a definite beat there-in the chaos-- Macalaure grabbed both men by the arms and pulled them to Formendacil's pipe organ.

"String them up!" shouted JennyHallu waving her wind harp in the air.
"Wait!" Mithalwen grabbed the stein, and pulled out the last piece of paper. "It was stuck to the bottom! You really ought to have washed this first, Eomer..."
All eyes were on her, breathlessly waiting (in particular, Glirdan and Formendacil, as muscians are not known to be very gifted in the art of hanging people) "...Well... What does it say?" asked Valier at last.
"Glirdan."

Struggling for his life, Glirdan called out to his fellow musicians for mercy. "You have the wrong chair! Heavens! You have the wrong SECTION!" He broke free and rushed for his tent, hoping to at least get his sheet music before escaping the camp site, but in his haste tripped and impailled himself on a music stand. In the awkward moments that followed, the camp members stared at the musicians corpse. "I guess it wasn't Glirdan" Mithalwen stammered. A little late, but then again, violas normally are.

The Living:
Roa_Aoife- trick pilot, double-necked electric guitar.
Valier- town pickler, piccolo.
Macalaure- unskilled inventor of of funny fake occupation ideas, on the verge of bankruptcy, tuba
Mithalwen- cat-herder, viola
JennyHallu- street corner doom-sayer, Aeolian wind harp
Nogrod- idle fantasist, tin whistle
Mormegil- non-practicing wizard, triangle
Formendacil- pirate, pipe organ
Eomer of the Rohirrim- publican, double-bass
Kitanna- hermit, didgeridoo
Glirdan- town musician, sax
Kuruharan- condottieri, flute

The Dead:
Valesse- Master Accordionist (Mod) stabbed with A Sharp key.
Gil-Galad- Artisan spoon player (Mod) choked on his musical spoons.
Glirdan- town musician, sax (Ordo) impailed on his music stand.
_________________
Night One has begun:
Wolves, Seer... Do your business.
Ordos: Its sleepy time.

[Valesse]

The night seemed much longer, and not nearly as restful as the one before, now with everyone's minds on the werewolves and Glirdan's death. Slowly, however, sleep overcame each of the camp members, and before they knew it, the dim sun was shining as brightly as it could through the many layers of frigid fog.

Quietly the campers emerged from their tents, hesitant to see what the night had left them. It wasn't until breakfast was served that they had reliezed Formendacil was not leaving his abode. "You don't think..." Nogrod started.
With a frown Valier said "We should check, at least."

His tent was in shambles... barely able to hold itself up. Inside it was as disorganized as one might expect the housing of a pirate should be with the minor exception of the pipe organ which was obviously obsessively cleaned by it's owner who had found his short drop and sudden stop on it's piping.

"A yardarm." Kuruharan gasped. "How...befitting for a pirate."
JennyHallu crossed her arms "We... should get him down from there."

Most of the campers had completely forgotten about breakfast, least it seemed a far less important part of their lives now to eat than it was to bury Dread Pirate Formendacil. Mithalwen gave a short speech, mostly attributed to what little she knew of him. Has humbly as she could she uttered "The organ is the instrument of worship for in its sounding we sense the Majesty of God and in its ending we know the Grace of God." with a bowed head.

Macalaure furrowed his brows and sniffed loudly. "If only there -were- theme music to the hemp'n jig, at least we would have heard it..."
"Everyone... come look at this!" Mormegil called, he had been in the back of the crowd around the grave, and noticed a magizine which had been flung out of Formendacil's tent. "it's from Seer's Roebuck..."
"That means... Formendacil was a..." gulped Eomer.
"Formendacil was a seer." cried Roa_Aoife.


The Living:
Roa_Aoife- trick pilot, double-necked electric guitar.
Valier- town pickler, piccolo.
Macalaure- unskilled inventor of of funny fake occupation ideas, on the verge of bankruptcy, Tuba
Mithalwen- cat-herder, viola
JennyHallu- street corner doom-sayer, Aeolian wind harp
Nogrod- idle fantasist, tin whistle
Mormegil- non-practicing wizard, triangle
Formendacil- pirate, pipe organ
Eomer of the Rohirrim- publican, double-bass
Kitanna- hermit, didgeridoo
Glirdan- town musician, sax
Kuruharan- condottieri, flute

The Dead:
Valesse- Master Accordionist (Mod) stabbed with A Sharp key.
Gil-Galad- Artisan spoon player (Mod) choked on his musical spoons.
Glirdan- town musician, sax (Ordo) impailled on his music stand.
Formendacil- pirate, pipe organ (Seer) hung on a pipe organ yardarm.

______________
Day Two begins:
Have at it, y'all

[Macalaure]

Sorry for the quasi-random vote of yesterday. Time was against me and I'm just happy to not have caused a Nogrod-bandwaggon. I'm confident of being of more help toDay.

So, just what is it that makes seers act so nervous that they achieve to get themselves revealed or killed already at the first day?
At least we have a known innocent that we can work around now. Bad side of it, Form's death leaves not one trail. Morm, lead the way!

My only and very little suspect right now is Roa. Her jumping at Form was a bit too harsh to me. This is a way a wolf might act, loudly exploiting minor misbehaviours of innocents to make other innocents join the lynch.

Let's see what this Day will bring with it.

[mormegil]

Glirdan voted Formendacil (Formendacil 1)
Macalaure voted Glirdan (Formendacil 1, Glirdan 1)
Mormegil voted Glirdan (Formendacil 1, Glidan 2)
Roa voted Formendacil (Formendacil 2, Glirdan 2)
Eomer voted Mormegil (Formendacil 2, Glirdan 2, Mormegil 1)
Kitanna voted Glirdan (Formendacil 2, Glirdan 3, Mormegil 1)
Valier voted Formendacil (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 3, Mormegil 1)
Kuru voted Eomer (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 3, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1)
Jenny voted Kuru (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 3, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Kuru)
Formendacil voted Glirdan (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 4, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Kuru 1)
Nogrod voted Kitanna (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 4, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Kuru 1, Kitanna 1)
Mithalwen voted Glirdan (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 5, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Kuru 1, Kitanna 1)

Yesterday's campaign against Formendacil was silly! Why would we lynch him? Because he doesn't like day 1's? It was madness and we know at least one innocent was in the fray.

Obviously I will die tonight so I will do what I can to help in the time I have.


In my opinion some of the interesting votes yesterday are Roa, Eomer, Valier, Jenny, and Nogrod.

Roa got the Formendacil train into action being the second vote. I generally don't suspect first votes. I don't think there was ever much reason to vote for Formendacil. I think he was trying to look moderately suspicion but never thought he would be lynched.

Eomer's sudden vote for me was interesting though likely he is innocent and saw some evidence, at least there was a little evidence against me albeit being innocent. I believe him innocent but I'm still wary.

Valier, gave a decisive vote for Formendacil at a critical time without any real reasoning whatsoever.

Jenny didn't entangle herself in the two bandwagons which can be considered a 'safe vote'. She gave some slight reasons which looks good but then let's us know she may change her vote which I don't like...with that Kuru did it as well. Makes me wonder a bit.

Nogrod, I don't follow his reasoning for voting Kitanna but why it sticks out to me is it was later in the voting, possibly the last wolf to vote making sure he didn't need to save anybody, which he didn't. Then he throws somebody completely new into the equation. Wolf-on-wolf vote?

Mith's vote could go either way. She seems genuinely panicked but it could have been an act. I'm currently believing her innocent. Today I recommend Valier, Jenny, Roa and Nogrod be examined most closely.

[mormegil]

Sorry for the quasi-random vote of yesterday. Time was against me and I'm just happy to not have caused a Nogrod-bandwaggon. I'm confident of being of more help toDay.

Nogrod bandwaggon? Care to explain?

[Macalaure]

Because of me, Nogrod was the second to receive a vote (you got my vote wrong, Morm! Be happy to be proven innocent :p ). Things like that tend to cause bandwaggons - with whatsoever reasons given by the waggoners, you never know.

[mormegil]

Oops. Sorry.

Glirdan voted Formendacil (Formendacil 1)
Macalaure voted Nogrod(Formendacil 1, Nogrod 1,)
Mormegil voted Glirdan (Formendacil 1, Glidan 1, Nogrod 1)
Roa voted Formendacil (Formendacil 2, Glirdan 1, Nogrod 1)
Eomer voted Mormegil (Formendacil 2, Glirdan 1, Mormegil 1, Nogrod 1)
Kitanna voted Glirdan (Formendacil 2, Glirdan 2, Mormegil 1, Nogrod 1 )
Valier voted Formendacil (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 2, Mormegil 1 Nogrod 1)
Kuru voted Eomer (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 2, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Nogrod 1)
Jenny voted Kuru (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 2, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Kuru 1,Nogrod 1 )
Formendacil voted Glirdan (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 3, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Kuru 1, Nogrod )
Nogrod voted Kitanna (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 3, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Kuru 1, Kitanna 1, Nogrod 1)
Mithalwen voted Glirdan (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 4, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Kuru 1, Kitanna 1, Nogrod 1)

Any other mistakes :o

That makes a lot more sense now. I was wondering why Formendacil declared himself and thought it a bit foolish. Anyway most of the thoughts stay the same. Mithalwen still could be a wolf knowing that she was 'saving' the seer to kill an innocent, either way it was sixes for the wolves because they get to kill the seer at day or night.

Oh, I challenge the wolves to have the courage to leave me alive for at least one more day. Unless you fear a challenge.

[Kuruharan]

Bongiorno, mi amici! Things are not going entirely well here, but I have seen worse. Like the view I had of the town square of Livorno when Cesare Borgia had me hung up by my ankles.

However, from my perspective, things look pretty bad. The reason being that I have combed Signore Formendacil’s posts and found no evidence of Seerness until the last post (although he was pretty consistent in saying that morm was innocent, just not definite about it until the end). The upshot of this is I’m not sure how much we can read into the people who were going after him. That just needs to be said.

Macalaure seems a bit defensive. Now, I’m always an admirer of a strong defense. But, really, he seems a bit tense.

[Nogrod]

It's not decent to speak bad of the dead, but I have to say Form kind of secured his own death by making his open post about Morm's innocence at the exact last minute. Happily Mith managed to change her initial last minute panic-vote on me to Glirdy (two minutes after the deadline!). That's why you Morm are still living. But Form could have played it wiser. Well, the milk is spilled already...

But it would have been a catastrophe if we would have lynched our seer ourselves and then the wolves would have taken our only known innocent. It could be worse, but it's very bad anyhow.

But yes, there were some funny things at the end of Day1.

First of all, almost no one around. I posted a summary of my thoughts just when the Brazil - France game started, about an hour before the deadline. After that, it was very quiet indeed.
- Jenny made her vote about 50 minutes before the deadline.
- Eomer asked me why do I think he has not been "substantial" 20 minutes before the deadline.
- The last ten minutes it seemed to be myself (half-time at the World Cup -game) and Form.
- Mith came in at the zero hour.

So: Why Jenny (said she might change her vote = would be around) and Eomer (he was there just 20 minutes before the end = was around) didn't take part on those last minutes? I understand that the football game might have taken a few people out from here, but the half-time started more than ten minutes before the deadline. So I make an educated guess that there were people around at the last minutes, but they just decided to stay away. They might have been innocents wishing to avoid attention, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of at least one wolf passing the last minutes. But that also is a shame on those innocents not coming in, because - as I said - the lynch candidates were not good. The situation was just hopeless. With more people openly online, we could have made something better. Alone I had no chances to do anything.

Secondly, there was Mith's appearance & vote at exactly the deadline minute, which you can't see any more as it has been edited after the deadline. It was a vote for me, saying that it was a panic vote - and then two lines of thoughts about my Kitanna-vote as grounds for it - or something following those lines. I remember Kitanna being mentioned in it (it disappeared soon enough so I hadn't a second sight of it). Mith herself or Valesse might remember. But what actually troubles me here a bit, is that the edit reason stated in the thread (+.02 minutes) is
Reason: clear line for vote and that basically is not the reason. The reason is that she changed her vote. I'm quite ready to put many things aside due to the last minute fervour and give the benefit of doubt in this kind of situations, but why to lie with the reason for editing? That just beats me.

[Nogrod]

Nogrod, I don't follow his reasoning for voting Kitanna but why it sticks out to me is it was later in the voting, possibly the last wolf to vote making sure he didn't need to save anybody, which he didn't. Then he throws somebody completely new into the equation. Wolf-on-wolf vote?
As I'm going to sleep now and know that many of you are active during the time I sleep, I'm inclined to say a word or two on this matter - as Form didn't seem to undestand it either in the end of the last Day.

I still think my vote for Kitanna could have been a vote on-wolf. At least she is my only even half-reasonable suspect at the moment.

As I said already in my post #49, I believed both Form and Glirdan to be innocent. And I had nothing to make a difference between the two. So why should I vote for the one or the other? Voting Form I would have killed Form (innocent to my eye) and voting Glirdan I would have killed Glirdy (innocent to my eye). There was no one other around to help make a new solution! Shame on you my fellow campers!

And as I said in my posts 56 & 58 in the end, it's always:
a) the curse of those who vote late to choose between action and omission - when they both seem to have grave results (as they did this time)
b) the blame of killing innocents is on them who have voted for them

Morm says I might have tried to make sure I didn't need to save anybody. You just try that situation yourself! Which one would you - anyone of you - had saved? And please, remember, Form announced at the last minute so you can't make your imagined conclusion to this puzzle with the knowledge of Form's Seership (or Glirdy's innoncence either)!

And Kitanna was new in the equation only in the sense that she hadn't received any votes yet. I had voiced my suspicion on her already earlier. So to me it was nothing new, but something I could actually vote.

As a proven innocent you Morm are a keeper of much. I hope you make good of this day.

[Roa_Aoife]

I'lll be back for more in a few hours, but it seems that I have some explaining to do.

YesterDay, I had to vote early. Almost nothing had happened the entire day, except a debate about Day 1's and a little bit about Morm's plan. The former was really Form's fault, and I didn't like the way he explained it. It placed him slightly ahead of everyone else, but it was the most reasonable vote I could cast, since there wasn't enough for me to see anyone else as particularly guilty.

While I understand random votes, I don't like using them. Any reason to me is better than no reason. And, you know, Form wasn't exactly helping himself. (Really, I can understand why he didn't come out till the end- with no ranger it's not as though he would have been around today anyways.)

That's all I'm going to say on that matter. I'll be back later with some observations about what happened yesterDay.

[JennyHallu]

I too, have seen several comments on my vote.

To Nogrod: I wasn't there. I stayed around for about half an hour after I voted and then went and read a book. I never said I would be around at the deadline.

To Morm: I voted for Kuru because I thought he was/is wolvish. Neither Glirdan nor Formy seemed wolvish to me. I wasn't going to randomly pick one, neither seemed wolvish at all. So that's why.

[Nogrod]

Okay.

I failed to fall into sleep (could there be any reason in the fact that I have stayed up too late for a couple of days in a row?).

So first this, and even if the first part is basically to Eomer – as I promised him to answer his question – I think there are generally interesting things at the end at least:

So Eomer, you asked me:
Nogrod, may I ask just what makes the things most other players have been saying so much more fantastical and important than what I have said? It's true, I've not said too much. Though there may be much to think about on Day One, there's only so much original stuff any one player can inject into proceedings.Well, I wasn’t actually saying that most other players made some fantastic posting... on the contrary, I think we all were pretty miserable on Day1 – and well, you can see the results.

As far as I can see, I have hit upon an idea (about Morm's vote) that no-one else has. So how does that make me "not saying anything"?Yes, you “hit” on the Morm’s vote. :p

And yes, we all make mistakes. I haven't heard of any WW-player with 100% record on voting or arguing...


But you made me think of it more openly: Glirdan did seem suspicious at first. But as You noted, he does seem like it most of the time and gets lynched very fast.

But were you a wolf, that would have been an easy trick indeed... and really, your "case" against Morm was a little pathetic – you should admit it yourself, being the Snoopy-knight! :)

So you said something in your first post...

But after that your second post protested Valier’s list for technicalities & told Form that we might still see something...

And on your third post you queried me about why you’re not a “fantastic” poster in my mind.

I wouldn’t say that is a much of a participation... even for a Day1.

And I've deliberately kept my posts short and clear so that people might be tempted to consider what's in them. Too many words muddy the waters.

I have seen you more verbal than this...

Sometimes too little words muddy the waters. You know how the political populists work: take a word or two and repeat them – and when someone actually wiser comes to say that the truth is a bit more complicated, you shout to him / her: “Too many words muddy the waters!”

So sorry, that’s not a simple truth. (Yes, you can muddy the waters with a stream of babbling, but so you can with oversimplifying things)

--------------

But what actually makes me weary of you right now is that, what you have done is trying to make a case of a known good player (now known innocent - for wolves known to be one from the beginning) with weak or nonexistent grounds, and not actually participating in the game. And you were at the place 20 minutes before the deadline, and you stood silent. Why? As a wolf I understand you should stay away from the fireline. But as an innocent? I know you are not a coward who would just fade yourself away from hard decisions. So what were you doing at the last moments? You were there...

And surely, speaking on behalf of Glirdan could be very convenient for a wolf on Day1, as he would be lynched more sooner than later anyhow, as you testimony yourself:
Glirdan is about as lynchable as they getAnd the wolves are the only ones who can know one's innocense for sure...

Surely, this is not an accusation, it's a suspicion. :smokin:

[Nogrod]

It took me a cigarette to see this.

- Eomer made a case against Morm because he believed Glirdy innocent.
- Eomer was online at the thread 20 minutes before the deadline when Glirdan and Form of whom he had only said this: Formendacil, your stance is just so puzzling. There's oodles to think about here. You just have to wait until quite near the end of Day One.were tied in votes (Form having the first three). But there were two people who had not voted yet - of which at least I had said that I would be back.
- So why didn't he do anything? I could have voted for Glirdy and make him a deceased - and he believed him innocent! Well because he's a wolf and had no worries, everything was going fine for him? He had nothing at stake there. Had he been innocent, he had been a bit alarmed, at least to mention it, or to defend Glirdy whom he thought innocent?

Eomer, you just surpassed Kitanna in my suspicion list... (though I've not forgotten her either)

[Valier]

Wow sorry I've been gone for most of the day...(recovering from yesterdays R.L shenanigans;) ) It has been fairly quiet all around which is a little odd and hard to get a clear perspective on everyone, but since there is not much to read through my opinions so far are fairly limited in suspicions so far. I have gone through my list of suspect from yesterdays fairly random list that I posted since there is more info to add to my thoughts on everyone. OK so this is what I have so far on everyone...

Roa: Seems to be her usual self, she stands up and faces her actions and argues if needed to prove her points, as usual..nothing too odd from her, yet.

Mac: Seems a little jumpy, but brings up good points about Roa, I trust him little as of now, but he is not high on my suspect list.

Mith: Haven't heard too much from her yet and her last minute vote change could be a good cover to make her look good.

Jenny: Oh Jenny...I always have a hard time with guessing your role...you are a crafty one, but are useful when proven innocent, but since our seer is gone there is no way to be sure, so I am weary of her for now.

Nogrod: Well Nogrod, I too am up and smoking, which is what an Ordo would be doing, trying to figure out who the bad guys are so we can rid us of them quickly, so I tend to think you innocent.

Morm: Well you are the one and only proven innocent, and you will more than likely be killed tonight, so if you have some thoughts, you should share them in case you do go.

Eomer: Now you dear Eomer... well I just don't know...there is something odd about you and I don't know why. I have high suspicion of you and want to hear some more from you.

Kitanna: She too has been bleeping on my radar, not too highly yet, but I am wary.

Kuru: I do not know your style well yet and you seem suspicious to me as well, your reaction to my list was what caught my eye.

I hope this helps...I know this is vague, but when is it not;) So take this for what you will. Hopefully we get a bit more talkative, so we can flush us out a wolf today.

[mormegil]

Well this will be my last post for a little while.

Nogrod, I'm not sure what to make of you. I actually believe you are innocent and make a great case against Eomer. Before reading your case I was thinking some of the same thoughts and so to see you echo what I've been thinking makes me believe in you.

I'm still wary of Valier.

Roa seems guilty to me, but I've been known to be wrong too often to count :rolleyes:

Mac does seem a bit jumpy but could it simply be neophyte jitters?

Jenny comes out yelling her defense which raises my suspicion of her, Roa did the same and it never sits well with me.

Eomer is a wolf!

Mith is innocent!

Kitanna is one on whom I have no reading but I will leave that to Nogrod, as I believe him innocent.

Kuru is one from whom I would like to hear more as I am moderately suspicious of him.

My top 5 suspects in order are:


Eomer
Valier
Roa
Jenny
Kuru


Kuru is put on the list only because I have not heard a sufficient amount to make a proper assement. He could go up or down depending upon what I hear.

Likely I will vote Eomer today and recommend a Valier lynching tomorrow. But I will be dead and likely not heeded as things may change as new discussion is presented.

[Macalaure]

... and they're probably right. Few has been said or done (except by mainly Nogrod) yet and there is few to go on for me so far. The suspicions I have are vague at best.


proven innocent are mormegil and, at least to me, myself.

Nogrod and Jenny feel innocent to me as yet, but that may change rapidly.

I cannot put Valier anywhere, thus keeping up the tradition.

The ones I need to read more of before I can form an opinion about them are Mithalwen, Eomer and Kitanna.

I'm still slightly suspicious of Roa, and his last post made Kuru blink on my radar.

However, from my perspective, things look pretty bad. The reason being that I have combed Signore Formendacil’s posts and found no evidence of Seerness until the last post (although he was pretty consistent in saying that morm was innocent, just not definite about it until the end). The upshot of this is I’m not sure how much we can read into the people who were going after him. That just needs to be said.Well, of course Form didn't make his seerness so clear - he's not suicidal. If it had been clear, presumably no wolf would have bothered voting for him. Instead they would have silently finished him off in the night. His being a seer was not obvious and this is good for us, because the reasons given for his lynching were intentionally or unintentionally wrong. If we can sever the two, we might catch a wolf, but I have doubts that we can.


Macalaure seems a bit defensive. Now, I’m always an admirer of a strong defense. But, really, he seems a bit tense.
I am not defensive. Not at all! And I am not tense. :D

[JennyHallu]

Well, of course Form didn't make his seerness so clear - he's not suicidal. If it had been clear, presumably no wolf would have bothered voting for him. Instead they would have silently finished him off in the night. His being a seer was not obvious and this is good for us, because the reasons given for his lynching were intentionally or unintentionally wrong. If we can sever the two, we might catch a wolf, but I have doubts that we can.

Mac: Form declared himself when he asserted Morm's innocence. The wolves killed him because they knew he was the seer.

Honestly, this makes me fairly confident of your innocence. I don't think a wolf is likely to pretend neither he nor his fellows picked up on Form's last-second declaration.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Nogrod, I really do not follow you.

You seem to think I'm a wolf because I did nothing to save Glirdan. But why should I try to save Glirdan? I thought him probably innocent, but not definitely innocent — why on Middle-earth would I think him definitely innocent?

And yes, I watched the end of Day One and didn't know what to think of it. I have no idea what you are recommending I should have done. I sat there, and watched those who saw their death in their eyes, and wondered whether they were guilty or not.

You've seen me much more loquacious before — all those times I was a wolf, you mean? My strategy never stays the same. I play according to how the game is going. I had very little worth adding yesterday.

Obviously I was wrong about Mormegil, but I stand by my vote because, at the time, I thought his actions looked wolvish. He saw the first vote of the day, decided that the reasoning was poor, and jumped on it.

[Mithalwen]

Can't really post now. But I suspect Nogrod most partly for the reasons I stupidly deleted in my vote change....

[Mithalwen]

NogrodI edited first because I hadn't put my vote for you on a separate line.

Tehn I saw Form's statement and desperately tried to change my vote ..I didn't believe Glirdan guilty but it was a prob innocent or a seer to die.

I really wanted you dead because I feel certain you are a wolf. Unfortunately noone was around to turn the tide at that late stage.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Nogrod, you quote me: "Glirdan is about as lynchable as they get."

and construe this as my being certain of Glirdan's innocence. Only a wolf would know about someone's innocence, after all.

Yet, you make a big thing about your "believ[ing] both Form and Glirdan to be innocent." That's why you voted for Kitanna at that crucial end of Day One. Oh why! you lament, was there no-one else around to save the innocent Form and Glirdan? Nogrod, I was around and could have saved Form or Glirdan, but chose not to as such a course of action at that time would not have made sense, considering my knowledge of their (lack of) secrets.

You got quite defensive about the situation you 'were put in'.

"Yes, the question of acting or omitting, the curse of those who vote late... :( "

I've seen this victim-of-circumstance tactic before, Noggy: I invented it! :p

When Form suggests you retract your vote, clearly grasping at his short life, you assert that it is the responsibility of those who voted for either Form or Glirdan to make this decision. You could not bring yourself to make this decision, yet you expect me (a Mormegil-voter) to?

Your attack on me today has all the hallmarks of a previous night's strategy, Nogrod.

[Macalaure]

However, from my perspective, things look pretty bad. The reason being that I have combed Signore Formendacil’s posts and found no evidence of Seerness until the last post (although he was pretty consistent in saying that morm was innocent, just not definite about it until the end). The upshot of this is I’m not sure how much we can read into the people who were going after him. That just needs to be said.Well, of course Form didn't make his seerness so clear - he's not suicidal. If it had been clear, presumably no wolf would have bothered voting for him. Instead they would have silently finished him off in the night. His being a seer was not obvious and this is good for us, because the reasons given for his lynching were intentionally or unintentionally wrong. If we can sever the two, we might catch a wolf, but I have doubts that we can.emphasis mine


Jenny, of course I managed to notice Form revealed himself in his last post (check my first post of toDay), but before, when the votes accumulated, nobody knew of it.

Nogrod and Jenny feel innocent to me as yet, but that may change rapidly.Indeed, indeed.

[JennyHallu]

Mac: Ok, you were referring to whether we could find wolves in those that voted for Form. Didn't realize that, but it's perfectly clear on a second reading. D'oh!

I'm going to take a look at bandwaggon voters then.


Glirdan voted Formendacil (Formendacil 1)
Macalaure voted Nogrod(Formendacil 1, Nogrod 1,)
Mormegil voted Glirdan (Formendacil 1, Glidan 1, Nogrod 1)
Roa voted Formendacil (Formendacil 2, Glirdan 1, Nogrod 1)
Eomer voted Mormegil (Formendacil 2, Glirdan 1, Mormegil 1, Nogrod 1)
Kitanna voted Glirdan (Formendacil 2, Glirdan 2, Mormegil 1, Nogrod 1 )
Valier voted Formendacil (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 2, Mormegil 1 Nogrod 1)
Kuru voted Eomer (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 2, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Nogrod 1)
Jenny voted Kuru (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 2, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Kuru 1,Nogrod 1 )
Formendacil voted Glirdan (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 3, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Kuru 1, Nogrod 1)
Nogrod voted Kitanna (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 3, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Kuru 1, Kitanna 1, Nogrod 1)
Mithalwen voted Glirdan (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 4, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Kuru 1, Kitanna 1, Nogrod 1)
So I'm looking at Roa, Kitanna, Valier, and Mith.

I have said before and shall say again: the most suspicious vote to me on a bandwaggon is the second. So Roa and Kitanna automatically look more suspicious to me.

I'm going to try to do an analysis of all four, but I am at work, so bear with me. It may take a while.

[JennyHallu]

#18 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478046&postcount=18)

This post appeared two after Glirdan's vote for Form. It is mainly an attack on Form, with a brief aside to oppose Morm's watchers plan. Potentially, this could make me feel MUCH better about Roa. Her attack is based on an interpretation of Form's usual Day 1 ennui as insulting, and I won't disagree that it is at least annoying. I feel comfortable when Roa is taking umbrage. Well...more comfortable than when she's reasonable. Roa just makes me nervous. I like that she is declaring herself to be anti-Form from the outset, but not that Form was already a vote candidate before she said a word.

#20 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478067&postcount=20)

This post is fairly brief. A plea to get on track, and a schedule update. Not really much to say.

#22 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478071&postcount=22)

A continuation of her discussion with Morm of his plan. This really felt like a comfortable discussion, and not an argument. Honestly, it did not seem that suspicious to me, as I largely agreed with Roa, and she makes it a point to argue against most grand schemes, always.

#33 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478155&postcount=33)

Seems mostly to be a lament of quiet villages.

#35 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478161&postcount=35)

Jokes with Nogrod about trusting her. Makes me a little nervous. Then says Valier usually needs a day or two to get in the groove. This corresponds to my own assessment of Valier's weird ability to pinpoint a wolf, so not so suspicious, and Valier had not put forward any list yet, so she's not trying to cover for it being unexpectedly correct. At least it puts no more nor less weight to the Day 1 list Val made. She finishes with a long explanation of her vote for Form rather than Glirdan. Each of these had at this point garnered one vote. She probably gave the best explanation of any of the day one votes, but one thing makes me a little nervous: She said she was deciding between Glirdan and Form, but she had at no point mentioned Glirdy before this. Nogrod had also accrued one vote at this point: If Roa turns out guilty, he is definitely worth a second glance.

#74 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478415&postcount=74)

A defense of her vote yesterday. Why should she feel defensive? Only Morm said anything against her. On the other hand, a suspicion from a known innocent can carry more weight than perhaps is justified.

In Summary

Roa could really go either way in my mind, but I have definitely seen enough to put her on my suspect list, at least.

[Nogrod]

NogrodI edited first because I hadn't put my vote for you on a separate line.
Tehn I saw Form's statement and desperately tried to change my vote ..I didn't believe Glirdan guilty but it was a prob innocent or a seer to die.Okay. That sounds believable. So no problem with that.

Eomer, I'm not blaming you of not saving Glirdan. What I find suspicious - or should we say convenient for a wolf - is the silence when being around. You could have said: "Hi, here I am, what shall we do as two likely innocents are about to die. Let's see, we have ten minutes time - any better candidates?" I think that an involved ordo would have tried to do his best. It might have ended the same way it ended, but you would have tried. But now you were just sneaking around, without showing your presence.

But there surely were others too. I just can't believe, that only Form, myself and Eomer were at the place on those last ten minutes or so (Mith appeared from out of the blue the last second).

Why didn't they show up? I see wolves had no reason to do anything - they knew that innocents were being killed and that suited them just fine, so why bother because those last minute votes and vote changes may be looked up as suspicious. It would have been pure folly from a wolf to come in then and involve himself! If there is no clear danger for the wolves, why should they leave their voting to the last seconds where they will be viewed with a microscope the next Day - and where they could end up in hard choices?

That's one of the reasons I regard Mith innocent despite her hunger to kill me. She cared for the best of the village and made herself involved - and there has already been suspicions raised on her that "she tries to make herself look good".

But were there ordos around, just watching, I'll just say it again: shame on you...

[JennyHallu]

#32 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478154&postcount=32)

Kitanna goes into a long explanation of why Form/Noggie/Roa might contain at least two wolves, suggests we try Morm's plan Day 3, and in an edit (Bad! Bad puppy!) mentions a passing dislike of Glirdan's random vote.

#37 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478176&postcount=37)

Votes for Glirdan, based on that fairly minor suspicion earlier, on his random vote. Mentions the Form/Noggie/Roa theory, but says she doesn't "want to act on this yet." What? Your main suspicion, and you vote on the minor one you editted in?

Kitanna is throwing all sorts of red flags. Would really like to see how she behaves today, but she's definitely not on my good list.

[JennyHallu]

Noggie, there were 12 villagers, from all over the world, and you choose to harp on who was around at the deadline on Day 1, after determinating that a third of the villagers were there?I didn't see you doing anything to save the SEER. You had no way of knowing whether Glirdan was innocent more than anyone else, and I really don't see the point of scolding people for not voting the same way you did.

[JennyHallu]

#12 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478004&postcount=12)

In character goofiness and then a defense of day 1. Not a big deal, not very telling.

#39 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478185&postcount=39)

She's here! she says. Hellos and thanks-for-noticings. Not a big deal, not very telling.

#40 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478188&postcount=40)

Ok, I know this is in the post, but here, again, is her good and bad list. I have added italics for known innocents, underlines for dead people.

Baddies

Kuru
Eomer
Form
Morm
Roa
Mith

Goodies

Kitanna
Jenny
Noggie
Mac
Me
Glirdan

Now this is a day 1 list, I don't know how significant it is, but I want to compare it with the one we got today.

Her vote for Form is based on the idea that his rant could be good cover...nothing more concrete than that?

#78 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478441&postcount=78)

I'm not keeping her notes, just generally sorting. You can check the post and see if I'm right.

Baddies
Eomer
Kuru

Not-Sures
Mac
Mith
Jenny
Kitanna

Innocents
Morm
Noggie

Seems to be consistent, at least.

I'm inclined to think Val innocent as of yet. At the very least I have no reasons not to. Don't like her voting reasons, but I don't expect long explanations from Val. Oh well.

[JennyHallu]

However, most are short.

#26 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478119&postcount=26), #27 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478122&postcount=27), #28 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478125&postcount=28)

The middle one makes almost no sense.

First is a day 1 defense.

Attacks analyses. Uhoh.

Nothing jumps out at me. I agree with Noggie on Mith: when she's calm, she's probably innocent. Gifted or Wolvish she gets jumpy. However, she's really made no contributions, and despite the fact that she seems to have found more time, none of the promised explanation of her suspicions is forthcoming.

#41 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478190&postcount=41)

Says she's here, nothing else relevant.

#48 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478203&postcount=48)

Says she's uneasy about Form. First thing to a concrete contribution we've received. Explanation, of course, would be too much to ask.

#60 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478227&postcount=60)

Vote for Noggie, retracted to Glirdan.

The retraction is clear, but why Noggie? only mention or interaction you've had with Noggie is joking about football vs. tennis.

Skipping the shouting, on to day 2.

#83 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478469&postcount=83), #84 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=478470&postcount=84)

There were reasons for Noggie? Great! Will you repost them? Apparently not. 84 seems merely to be clarification.

Mith really feels fairly innocent...but then...why no reasoning, thoughts, input? She's on my suspect list, but low on it.

[mormegil]

Currently I am going to give Eomer the benefit of my doubt. His response to Nogrod was decent enough to stay my vote. However, I would recommend not forgetting him and keeping him under a microscope, so to speak.

Valier still doesn't sit well with me. I've learned that ususally it's not the people who look the most guilty that are indeed guilty, wish that I had heeded that advice on Glirdan...you know the greatest thing about being a known innocent is I can say anything I want without any worry :D

++Valier

I will likely be back and may change my vote but in case I don't get back I wanted to get my vote out there.

[Kuruharan]

(Pass the Chianti, per favore. Grazie! Ahhh…that helps.)

After carefully reading through all of today’s posts Signore Macalaure strikes me as being ever more bizarre. Now as the enlightened among you, who have studied my marvelous werewolfing history at great length, know…I always tend to view strong defenses with a certain degree of favor. But this…

I am not defensive. Not at all! And I am not tense.
-Macalaure post # 80

…really seems a bit much.

Also, could somebody please explain to me the point this ragazzo was trying to make with this…

Well, of course Form didn't make his seerness so clear - he's not suicidal. If it had been clear, presumably no wolf would have bothered voting for him. Instead they would have silently finished him off in the night. His being a seer was not obvious and this is good for us, because the reasons given for his lynching were intentionally or unintentionally wrong. If we can sever the two, we might catch a wolf, but I have doubts that we can.
-Macalaure post # 80

None of this follows or makes any sense. If Signore Formendacil had made his seerness clear during the DAY, the wolves would have had every reason in the world to vote for him early and often so they could kill him as soon as possible and have the NIGHT to pick off innocents. And I don’t see that the last section of his paragraph means anything at all. This whole post just strikes me as a whole lot of sound and fury signifying nothing…exactly as a werewolf would do.

I have almost come to the point of revising yesterday’s opinion about Signore Eomer. His behavior was so out of character for him that I find it hard to believe that he might be a wolf. Unfortunately, I can also see the other side of that coin all too well and that was the side that was up for me yesterDAY (mainly because I couldn’t think of anything else). He has been more normal today. If we want to kill him toDAY just to be on the safe side, I could probably be all for that. However, I’m probably going to vote for Signore Macalaure.

Addio.

[Roa_Aoife]

OKay, I'm back, for a little bit.

A defense of her vote yesterday. Why should she feel defensive?

Because I nearly got the seer lynched. Imagine myreaction when I Logged back on today and read through everything I missed, only to find that I once again had suspected the seer. (I can never spot the seer as a wolf, but I always suspect of them of being wolves when I'm innocent. :rolleyes: )

Moving on, Nogrod is sending off warning bells. Sure, strong agressive attacks were once his hallmark, but he made a point about toning that down. Now he attacks Eomer for not making a vote that he himself wouldn't make. If Nogrod was around at the end like he claims, why didn't he make a vote to save Form after Glirdan's vote?

Scolding others for doing nothing when he himself did nothing? It seems like he's trying to hide his own guilt by loudly pointing it out in others. He may have let up now, but that doesn't change what he did. If anything, it bears the mark of flip-flopping.

Also, I find it odd that everyone is saying, "Mith is being calm, she must be innocent." In truth, Mith freaks out when she's a gifted, but not when she's a wolf. (No offense.) As a wolf, she's as calm and reasonable as she ever is. Or at least that's how she was in the only game where I saw her as a wolf, and I was a wolf with her.

[Kitanna]

Votes for Glirdan, based on that fairly minor suspicion earlier, on his random vote. Mentions the Form/Noggie/Roa theory, but says she doesn't "want to act on this yet." What? Your main suspicion, and you vote on the minor one you editted in?
I don't recall ever saying either suspicions were major. They were both loose and minor since at the time I voted I didn't feel I had much to go on. And I'm glad I didn't act on my theory about Form/Nogrod/Roa because a) for that theory to work Form would have to be one of the wolves, which I wasn't convinced of and b) I wanted to see how the three acted toDay. So I picked my next suspect, which happened to be Glirdan.

Nogrod=
Eomer, I'm not blaming you of not saving Glirdan. What I find suspicious - or should we say convenient for a wolf - is the silence when being around. You could have said: "Hi, here I am, what shall we do as two likely innocents are about to die. Let's see, we have ten minutes time - any better candidates?" I think that an involved ordo would have tried to do his best.
An involved wolf could do the same leading the votes from one innocent to another. Besides it looks terrible if an innocent comes out and helps get another innocent lynched to save one. He/she ends up looking like a wolf that tries to be helpful. Also what if an innocent hanging around honestly thinks this "likely innocent" is guilty? You're going to ask them to change their vote because of how you feel on the subject? Even if that's not what you're saying Nogrod, that's is what it looks like to me.

Kuru=

Well, of course Form didn't make his seerness so clear - he's not suicidal. If it had been clear, presumably no wolf would have bothered voting for him. Instead they would have silently finished him off in the night. His being a seer was not obvious and this is good for us, because the reasons given for his lynching were intentionally or unintentionally wrong. If we can sever the two, we might catch a wolf, but I have doubts that we can.
-Macalaure post # 80

None of this follows or makes any sense. If Signore Formendacil had made his seerness clear during the DAY, the wolves would have had every reason in the world to vote for him early and often so they could kill him as soon as possible and have the NIGHT to pick off innocents. And I don’t see that the last section of his paragraph means anything at all. This whole post just strikes me as a whole lot of sound and fury signifying nothing…exactly as a werewolf would do.
First off, I agree that this really makes no sense. I have no idea what you're trying to say in all that Mac.

I'd also like to mention something from what Kuru said.
If Signore Formendacil had made his seerness clear during the DAY, the wolves would have had every reason in the world to vote for him early and often so they could kill him as soon as possible and have the NIGHT to pick off innocents.
Yes, very reasonable, but couldn't the wolves (one or two, but not all three) try to save and defend Form during the day and then lead the votes to another innocent? So once Form was killed at Night at least one wolf looks better for trying to help save the seer.

[Macalaure]

None of this follows or makes any sense. If Signore Formendacil had made his seerness clear during the DAY, the wolves would have had every reason in the world to vote for him early and often so they could kill him as soon as possible and have the NIGHT to pick off innocents.Or, they could have left the killing of innocents to the innocents and kill Form at night. Same outcome, no fingerprints.


And I don’t see that the last section of his paragraph means anything at all. This whole post just strikes me as a whole lot of sound and fury signifying nothing…exactly as a werewolf would do. *sigh* I made a joke, so lynch me...


The banter between Eomer and Nogrod leaves me with a strange feeling. Eomer's defense made some sense and leaves Nogrod accusation in a bad light. But if Nogrod is a wolf, would he be so loud about this topic? He has put all our noses into his yesterDay's vote. This could have easily backfired, and it did backfire a bit.

edit: cross-posted with Kitanna.

[Macalaure]

Ah, I'm sorry. I misread your post, Kuru.

You meant this part:
His being a seer was not obvious and this is good for us, because the reasons given for his lynching were intentionally or unintentionally wrong. If we can sever the two, we might catch a wolf, but I have doubts that we can.


Yes, on second thought I have to say that my first thoughts got a little mixed up. I was just doubtful of your "The upshot of this is I’m not sure how much we can read into the people who were going after him." What I wanted to say is, that, since Form is now proven innocent all the reasons given for his lynching yesterday are wrong. If a wolf was among the voters, s/he knew they were wrong. That is what I meant with intentional or unintentional. Of course, the same holds for the Glirdan-voters. It has nothing to do with Form's seerness but with his being innocent. I'm sorry.

[Roa_Aoife]

Oddly, I understand what Mac is saying. If a wolf was among the voters for Form, they would have had to come up with fake reasoning or no reasoning at all. However, how can we tell the difference between someone who is deliberately wrong, and someone who was accidentally wrong? Glirdan was wrong, but accidentally so. It is also unlikely that more than one wolf was in the Form bandwagon. I'm curious as to how Mac would suggest we pursue this idea beyond the norm. (In other words, what your point in saying what we already knew?)

[Kitanna]

Moving on, Nogrod is sending off warning bells. Sure, strong agressive attacks were once his hallmark, but he made a point about toning that down. Now he attacks Eomer for not making a vote that he himself wouldn't make. If Nogrod was around at the end like he claims, why didn't he make a vote to save Form after Glirdan's vote?

Scolding others for doing nothing when he himself did nothing? It seems like he's trying to hide his own guilt by loudly pointing it out in others. He may have let up now, but that doesn't change what he did. If anything, it bears the mark of flip-flopping.

I'm glad you brought that up Roa, because I wouldn't have caught it. But what I do find interesting is the fact Nogrod is urging everyone who was around to change their votes to follow the path he saw fit. He seems to have taken it on himself to pick the paths of this village. He's not "blaming" Eomer for not helping in saving Glirdan, but that all looks very fishy. Nogrod said he didn't find Form or Glirdan guilty, but obviously some people did because they voted for them. However near the end of the day and toDay Nogrod is saying we, as a village, should have tried to save them, but by switching our votes to who? It's impossible for every single person who voted Form or Glirdan to be a wolf, so the innocents who voted must have thought they were voting for a wolf and Form last vote declared his innocence and Glirdan's death declared his. I don't like how Nogrod is acting on the whole affair.

Also looking to Form's post about Day 1, I didn't feel it was much to suspect Form on and when I did suspect Form it was because of the responses (mainly from Roa and Nogrod) that I suspected wolfish activity and I still do.

Form's Day One post and the reactions
After Form's first post Kuru mentioned we should all give our best ideas in helping to catch the wolf. A few others mentioned how terrible day one is, but Nogrod was the first to really attack what Form said. He claimed acting like that was just an excuse to be lazy and Nogrod brings up an example of a past game, but remember this isn't a past game. This is played with new players and different roles, a past game has no real bearing here.

Kuru calls attention to Form and suggests maybe he's trying to lead us down a path as a wolfish tactic.
It seems to me that perhaps Signore Formendacil could be acting just a shade manipulative. His predictions could be a cleverly concealed tactic to direct behavior in a particular direction...since once predictions are announced, people have a tendency to perversely do the opposite. However, this might speak in his favor since he's lamenting...
Clearly this swayed some people because the next post was Glirdan putting in his vote for Form. Looks rather bad that Kuru was the one to sway an innocent villager into voting for Form. I don't think Kuru said that with the intent of someone quickly jumping on it to vote, but it's noteworthy.

Roa was the next to really say something about Form's Day One post.
Anf frankly, Form, if you think it ought to be obvious that Day 1's are useless, why bother stating it? Face facts- those who think they are useless will continue to think so. Those who think they aren't will continue to do so. The only thing statements like yours do is sidetrack us from the problem at hand.
Reasonable enough, but unneeded. Nogrod makes the next post and says he agrees with what Roa had said about Day Ones. He then keeps going about this and that, when a simple I agree could have worked.
Think of a village inhabitated with 15 Forms! Everyone would just exclaim how stupid saying anything is. How could they decide their votes on any Day? Their Day1 would become Day2, Day3 etc... And surely, they would have made sure, that their votes had been in random, because there is nothing to go for... understandably.
Complete overkill on what Form said. The next post was a quick statement from Roa saying it was time to move on from the arguement about Day 1.

Form responds to what Nogrod has said, a defense of what he said.

Mith is the next and says what Form has said is too formulaic. Points out that Roa and Nogrod are both right that Day 1 can be productive. I come on next and make my Form/Nogrod/Roa theory based on the rebuttles of Nogrod and Roa to Form's post.

Looking at all that I now have three suspects.
1) Nogrod- For his constant return to Day 1 can be productive and Form you're wrong, and so on. Nogrod said he thought Form was innocent, but he drew a lot of attention to him with his Day 1 thing. Also for his thoughts that people should have changed their votes to save two "likely innocents" at the end of the day. I don't like the way he is trying to tell us what we should have done. He goes after Eomer for not changing his vote when he was around near the end. I'd like to hear from Eomer in the subject. And finally to agree with what Roa said, he made no action on his own end of the day plan.

2) Kuru- A distant second to Nogrod. The main reason I suspect Kuru is because his post about Form trying to stir us down a path is what caused Glirdan to start up the Form bandwagon. It was a slight accusation, but enough to influence someone else which may have been Kuru's plan.

3) Roa- I'm just following up on what I said yesterday. Her and Nogrod's rebuttles to Form still have me worried. Though that's all I have to go on right now.

[Mithalwen]

Okay. That sounds believable. So no problem with that.



That's one of the reasons I regard Mith innocent despite her hunger to kill me. She cared for the best of the village and made herself involved - and there has already been suspicions raised on her that "she tries to make herself look good".

But were there ordos around, just watching, I'll just say it again: shame on you...

Well Noggin, you aren't off the hook but I now have a strong second candidate on what I have been able to glean so far (new desk with screen towards the directors' offices is not conducive to werewolf... feel guilty even login on at lunchtime.

Like Roa I found your reference to my usual calm self a little odd.... I make a jumpy gifted, a jumpy or fatalistic wolf (Roa's game....) as an ordo I hope I am back on form after a long spell of befuddlement and failing to pick wolves.

Actually a lot of what you throw at Eomer I was thinking about you.

My series of errors in the production of my panick votes is not my definition of trying to make myself look good. I really wasn't convinced about either Form or Glirdan and you seemed suspiciously disengaged, more like wolf who didn't really care which innocent got lynched.. and I was primed to kill anyone who rammed more football down my throat - feel like a goose being prepared for foie gras.

Anyway need to have a proper read.

One little point is that Morm believes in me again . Got that swallowed a cat feeling :D

[Nogrod]

Roa, I'm beginning to suspect that I have found the third wolf now... :)
Yes, I'm not at all sure about Eomer or Kitanna - they have been the only ones I have had something to note or suspect on.

But sincerely , look at this post Roa made! It's just a mild attack that in the same time works as her own cover-up. Oh my. And what the "attack" is made of? intentional misunderstandings and pure rhetorics (partly false them too).

Let's make an analysis on a couple of nice ones.

Sure, strong agressive attacks were once his hallmark, but he made a point about toning that down.
She calls my speculation on Eomer a "strong agressive attack"? C'mon Roa! You know very well yourself, what I can do... and what is a strong aggressive attack in the first place - I've seen you build them too. Then as you have yourself labelled my thoughts of Eomer as a strong attack, you accuse me of being inconsistent or suspicious because I have said I'm toning down. Nice Roa. Very nice. Oh how suspicious!
Now he attacks Eomer for not making a vote that he himself wouldn't make. If Nogrod was around at the end like he claims, why didn't he make a vote to save Form after Glirdan's vote?
First of all, an intentional misunderstanding. I didn't say Eomer should have "rescued" either Form or Glirdy. That was the whole point! We would have needed more people on the place to make a difference. I couldn't save them both and he couldn't have saved them both. So also asking why I didn't save Form is just continuing on the wrong tracks. So wishing to make me look like a culprit to the tragedy of yesterday (being herself one of those who voted for Form/Glirdy). Nice move Roa.
But even nicer to come: Roa says If Nogrod was around at the end like he claims. Well You know, there are people who speak or tell things (truthfully) and then there are people who just "claim" something. So I'm also the one who just claims being somewhere or done something. Very untrusty guy this Nogrod fellow, isn't he? Unfortunately you can check the last ten minutes of the last night. I was there. I don't only claim to have been there. The real problem is, that there were no others...
Scolding others for doing nothing when he himself did nothing? It seems like he's trying to hide his own guilt by loudly pointing it out in others.
And again, nice rhetorical twists turning from a misguided interpretation of what I have said to totally unwarranted inference about my guilt. But that looks nice (you should write speeches to politicians running for office - to paint the competitors black). No one could have made the difference there alone! Go check the situation yourself for God's sake and stop being intentionally misleading. It's annoying (or then evil - you Roa know which one of these it is in your case). Some people here had voted stupidly and then refused to come back to help us out from the situation. To wolves that's just great, but for us others not.
He may have let up now, but that doesn't change what he did. If anything, it bears the mark of flip-flopping
And Bingo! She got the word "flip-flopping" included in the post! Yes, that Nogrod is also a flip-flopper! First of all, the accusation is wrong as I have tried to explain here. But secondly - and I think even more importantly, it's there to rouse suspicion (because everyone is so confident that anything someone names flip-floppy is bad). So ungrounded rhetorics once again.

Roa I have been pondering so far whether I could try to trust you on this game - it would be just so totally improbable that you were a baddie again. But as you are here trying to make a mountain out of a molehill just using only rhetorical means and intentionally misguided interpretations, and as I happen to know that their target is innocent, I'm getting somewhat alarmed. If you would be an ordo just missing the mark, you would have had been sharper, more intelligent, seeing actual connections or slips or whatever. Here you had none.

Okay. Too much talk that misses the mark. I'll try to do something more constructive for a while.

EDIT: X-posted with a lot!

[Kitanna]

I need to vote and then go to work, so this is the last for the day.

++ Nogrod

I have stated my reasons and after looking at his defense of Roa's post I'm not swayed toward thinking him innocent. He says Roa is trying to cover her own tracks in going after him, that makes sense, but I don't think that's unnatural. Everyone in this game wants to cover there tracks, innocents and wolves alike, no one wants to be lynched.

So because of all I've said earlier I vote for Nogrod now. Good-bye and good luck village.

[Nogrod]

Not all who voted for Form & Glirdy were wolves. Right.

But accusing someone of trying to be at the place and make a difference is dishonest when one is in the first instance guilty of the things that happened.

To whom this was good? To the wolves. Who would not like to come and try? The wolves again.

Who would like to pour all this down on me? The wolves (or very pathetic villagers trying to bury their own feelings of guilt).

Think also of the following: what on earth was I doing there at the end of Day1, getting myself into all this trouble? A nice vote at least six hours before the deadline - to Glirdy or Form f.ex. - and nobody would have raised an eyebrow.

EDIT: X-posted with Kitanna (Roa's rhetorics seem to work...)

[Macalaure]

I hate to bring this up again, as it is not very interesting and doesn't show me in a good light: my posts towards Kuruharan.

First off, Kuru, my suspicion of you has subsided a little. Your response was just as annoyed as it should have been and was so by right.


I'm curious as to how Mac would suggest we pursue this idea beyond the norm. (In other words, what your point in saying what we already knew?)As I already said, the second part of that paragraph was not that intelligent. I have no idea. Out of the seven voters for Form and Glirdan 3 were known innocents, and all of the other four (Roa,Valier,Kitanna,Mith) don't speak of innocence to me. But at least one of them must be innocent.


Right now, there are only two things I know for sure and that I can work around. I am innocent and so is Morm. Morm hasn't been talked of much toDay and the ones that have talked to me / about me [edit: recently] (except Kuru) are Roa and Kitanna.

First off, I agree that this really makes no sense. I have no idea what you're trying to say in all that Mac. Partly you're right and partly you seemed to not even have tried. Not all of it was nonsense. This could be interpreted badly: A wolf seeing a stupid and misled innocent, stressing the fault without getting in too deep and seeing if other innocents bite on it.

Enter the good cop: Roa.
If I wasn't already suspicious about her, I might have thought "oh, thanks! Somebody at last caught a bit of it." But now it simply does not sit right with me.

Interestingly again, exactly these two are the ones who loudly promote the lynching of Nogrod right now. I still see Nogrod more innocent than guilty and his points against Roa make sense even though they're very angry. But if Nogrod is lynched and if he is found innocent then, especially Roa and Kitanna will be looked upon very closely. This makes it unlikely to me that they're both wolves.

[Mithalwen]

After my quick glimpse at work, I was convinced on the drive to the cyber cafe that I had found two wolves. Nogrod and Jenny Hallu (confirming my instincts re alleged analysis). Only problem is their interraction.

Nogrod mildly agrees with Jenny Hallu's suspicion of Kuruharan. Sometimes wolves avoid referring to eah other on Day 1. However a brief reference may be less suspicious.

I wonder about Nogrod saying that his vote might be and "on wolf" vote .... an odd expression ... I have only heard "wolf on wolf vote" ... but I am wary of taking it too seriously since even when I was near bilingual I know I used some odd expressions in French.

More soon... need a break.

[Nogrod]

I wonder about Nogrod saying that his vote might be and "on wolf" vote .... an odd expression ... I have only heard "wolf on wolf vote" ... One never should try word-plays in a language that is not the first one... Morm entertained the idea that my vote for Kitanna might have been a "wolf on wolf", so as I'm not a wolf, I just expressed, that I believed it to be "on wolf" -vote. Yeah. Never try being funny when you actually can't. :)


But back to the bussiness.

Thanks Macalaure to sending us (well at least me) back on track, which is hunting wolves.

The first thing a wolf wants to secure is a good looking (or defendable) voting record. How do you get one in a village as quiet as ours on Day1? Well, surely by voting either Glirdy or Form - who both behaved somewhat suspiciously. They were easy to vote.

So the not-known Form/Glirdy voters are:
Roa
Valier
Kitanna
Mith

Of these I believe Mith innocent as she rushed in on the last second etc. (I've made the point already)

That leaves Roa, Valier and Kitanna. Of these I think even two might be wolves. I don't think it too fantastic an idea. A wolf must secure her vote. I know that is a bold suggestion, but look at the numbers: the wolves must be somewhere. I would also be inclined to believe that the wolves vote early enough, not to take any risks of making open decisiond between people.

That would leave - surprise, surprise - Roa and Kitanna...

Now where's the third wolf?

One safe, in the middle of the day vote perhaps? Maybe even trying to see whether a bandwaggon on a known good player might take air under it? So Eomer? I'll have to look at these possibilities more carefully... there were others there too. (I was already inclined to believe Eomer innocent after his defence felt genuine)

Sorry to be this open right now, but I have a bad feeling that you are going to lynch me toDay and there's just 1½ hours left. So I'll try to do my best before it.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Mac said that he was tense, tense! Calm down! Calm down! and all that. It was merely in jest, Kuru. I found it strange that you picked at those bones.

But Nogrod's stance of hogging the moral high-ground smacks of classic wolvery. "Oh, where were all the villagers? Shame on you!" It's a tactic, mark my words.

Apparently, he doesn't know what to make of me now. But this willingness to jump from me (who responded to his suspicions) over to Roa (who, with a couple of short remarks, provoked a very passionate response from Nogrod) has me convinced of his guilt; certainly more so than anyone else in this village. I think a stubborn innocent would have dismissed Roa and said that he would deal with her once Eomer was dead, but Nogrod sees enemies everywhere.

String him up!

++NOGROD

[Nogrod]

Eomer #36
I was waiting for the first person to jump on board the case against Glirdan, whose only crime was to set the ball rolling against that pesky curmudgeon Formendacil. It was construed as 'Glirdan is jumping on Form-suspicion'

I don't buy it. I think Mormegil is trying to invent a decent reason for his Day One vote. And let's be honest: Glirdan is about as lynchable as they get. A good idea, but I see it for what it truly is: fangéd skullduggery. String him up!

++MORMEGIL

At that time the tally: Form 2, Glirdy 1, Nogrod 1

Kuruharan #47
I'm going to go ahead and vote...

++ Eomer of the Rohirrim

Mainly because he's not been around...much, and I can't think of anything better to do. I don't really want to join the Signore Formendacil bandwagon (although, mama mia, if he does turn out to be a wolf that will be awkward). I'm even less comfortable with the Signore Glirdan campaign.

WARNING: Vote under pressure and may change with little warning.

At that time the tally: Form 3, Glirdy 2, Nogrod 1, Morm 1

Jenny #50
For now, at least, I'm going to vote

++Kuruharan

May change. Not sure.

Preceded by:

Jenny #42
Frankly, I'm most suspicious at the moment of Kuruharan. He's said enough for a presence, but I don't think any of it has been meaningful.

And his bit on "useful" and "not-useful" people...which, exactly, are which? Look at our camp rolls...everyone here, to my mind, falls into the useful category.

At that time the tally: Form 3, Glirdy 2, Nogrod 1, Morm 1, Eomer 1

Some thoughts to follow...

Btw. Eomer, I saw your vote. You are either evil or then totally misguided. I somehow hope you are evil, because then my initial guess has been proven right...

[Mithalwen]

I don't particularly suspect Roa partly because she has been making good sense in her posts but she is plausible.


Nogrod, fair enough, that makes sense. I am prepared hang fire on you but I doubt it will be enough now.

What is the voting now?

[Mithalwen]

I make it Noggin 2 Kitanna & Eomer and Valier 1 (Morm)

Lets add another to the mix seeming wolfish due to "analysis" smoke screen:

++ JennyHallu

[Nogrod]

I think a stubborn innocent would have dismissed Roa and said that he would deal with her once Eomer was dead, but Nogrod sees enemies everywhere.I only see three of them, dear Eomer... :rolleyes:

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

My evil ways are significantly overshadowed in this village by the beasts who would tear me limb from limb in the night. I do wish it hadn't come to this, Nogrod, you were such a good drinker and an able singer after a bottle of brandy. But the scoundrels have turned friend against friend in these sad times. And though I may be misguided, I'm certainly no wolf.

I have a vote? Are you sure, Mith?

[Valier]

Wow the power in my whole city has been out until just now, like for three hoursI will read through and see what has been happening.

I still highly suspect Eomer and will more than likely vote for him today. I have not seen any red flags about Nogrod so far, so I will not vote for him today.

I will back shortly and see how things are going.

[Kuruharan]

Mac said that he was tense, tense! Calm down! Calm down! and all that. It was merely in jest, Kuru. I found it strange that you picked at those bones.

Signore Eomer, you are not placing that in context. Truly, the “tense” comment was said in jest. But it was in a stream of self-justification that continued afterward. I believe the words “Trying too hard” apply to him here.

However, I too am becoming alarmed at the behavior of Signore Nogrod. I believe I can crystallize the source of my unease down to a single word – “hasty.” He seems very quick to toss around ideas and accusations. While having ideas is not at all a bad thing, it seems to me that an ordo would be best served by having more coherence and order to the way they proceed. It is in a wolf’s interest to whirl about and cause confusion, which seems to be what Signore Nogrod is doing. I’m also uncomfortable with the way he labels “very pathetic villagers trying to bury their own feelings of guilt” (post 105). Something about that just does not sit well with me.

He also makes a lot of the fact that he was “there” at the end of yesterday’s voting. My reaction is “so?” That is not proof of anything.

Ecco, my current suspicions are of Signore Macalaure, Signore Nogrod, and Signore Eomer…not necessarily in that order. The odds tell me that at least one of them is innocent. At the moment I’m inclined to believe Signore Eomer is innocent…but that might be off.

I’m not going to vote yet. I’ll wait a bit longer to see what happens.

Ciao!

[Nogrod]

Alright.

Eomer I still suspect somewhat. His vote for me may be triggered because he has found no one else to suspect (and a couple of persons have ranted on my guilt quite enough to ensure I'm in when those who can't or don't bother to think themselves make their decisions) or because I suspected him - or because he's a wolf.

His vote on Morm is a clessic wolf vote, trying to see whether a loosely based vote on a good player takes off and produces a good lynch to the wolves. I've said enough of Eomer today, I suppose. :)

Kuruharan's grounds for voting Eomer were Mainly because he's not been around...much, and I can't think of anything better to do. Then he added that he doesn't join either of the bandwaggons. It could be an ordo just not knowing what to do, or then a wolf skilfully seeing the dangers involved in joining at that minute... Hard to say.

Jenny is interesting. Her motive for voting Kuru is that he has been around to make a presence, but that non of it had been meaningful. Now this is first of all empirically false and secondly, there were lots of people of whom the same could have been said.

To top that, I've a feeling she has been a bit touchy (yeah, I'm the best to say that, I know, but there has been some rain over me toDay).

Of these three I would suspect Eomer and Jenny. There could be arguments laid over both of them.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Nogrod, though I will likely keep arguing for your death, please know that, if you are innocent, you will more than likely be very useful after you are gone. While I am very reluctant to take your theories at face-value just now, I will obviously give them the greatest of respect if I know their creator was of a good heart.

Small consolation, perhaps! :D

And I am gone for tonight. No hanging around silently at the end, I promise!

[Nogrod]

However, I too am becoming alarmed at the behavior of Signore Nogrod. I believe I can crystallize the source of my unease down to a single word – “hasty.” He seems very quick to toss around ideas and accusations. While having ideas is not at all a bad thing, it seems to me that an ordo would be best served by having more coherence and order to the way they proceed.You like Eomer seem to fall into the same trap, concentrating on one fiend at the time - discussing just one or two persons... We have three wolves and three has to be found before the village is secured. And as I have had bad feeling about this being my last day here, I've tried to help. Sorry for that.

[Macalaure]

I want to get a vote off, now. I will be around until the deadline.

So, Roa or Kitanna, Kitanna or Roa...

++ Roa_Aoife

[Nogrod]

Well, here's to begin the counting...

Valier 1 (Morm I)
Nogrod 2 (Kitanna II, Eomer III)
Jenny 1 (Mith IV)
Roa 1 (Maca V)

[Mithalwen]

I have a vote? Are you sure, Mith?


No you are one of the voters for Nogrod . Kit is the other

Morm voted for Valier.

I voted for Jenny

Now Mac has voted for Roa.


Noggin, I would add that I thought it interesting that Jenny Hallu highlighted Valier's absence yesterday in her own first post.

Canadians being thin on the ground yesterday (game time) is in itself no more suspicious than Americans being other wise engaged tomorrow (real time). Now Valier is as good as anyone at keeping a low profile as a wolf but she is worth keeping around incase she does her "wolfsmeller pursuivant " thing ...

[Valier]

Well after reading through what has happened, I believe out of our days candadates that Eomer is the more guilty party. I am unsure of both Jenny and Roa, but I do not have an overly high suspicion of them yet. Morm's vote for me is well... not unexpected. Morm tends to always think me bad, and we tend to butt heads some what. Nogrod seems to me like his usual self and I see no reason to kill him today. I hope we catch us a wolf today and not another poor innocent.

++Eomer

[Kuruharan]

You like Eomer seem to fall into the same trap, concentrating on one fiend at the time - discussing just one or two persons... We have three wolves and three has to be found before the village is secured.

Ah…a point. However, we can only deal with one at a time. Trying to do too much at one time only adds chaos and confusion.

Nogrod, though I will likely keep arguing for your death, please know that, if you are innocent, you will more than likely be very useful after you are gone. While I am very reluctant to take your theories at face-value just now, I will obviously give them the greatest of respect if I know their creator was of a good heart.

Signore Eomer may very well have a compelling point...

[Roa_Aoife]

A little jumpy Nogrod? Did I hit a nerve?

She calls my speculation on Eomer a "strong agressive attack"? C'mon Roa! You know very well yourself, what I can do... and what is a strong aggressive attack in the first place - I've seen you build them too. Then as you have yourself labelled my thoughts of Eomer as a strong attack, you accuse me of being inconsistent or suspicious because I have said I'm toning down. Nice Roa. Very nice. Oh how suspicious!

Who's midunderstanding now? You have made a statement in several games in the past that you were trying to tone down your agressiveness. Now it's suddenly back up. It's a behavior change that I find startling and rather alarming.

And your agressiveness is certainly up now that you're under attack.

First of all, an intentional misunderstanding. I didn't say Eomer should have "rescued" either Form or Glirdy. That was the whole point! We would have needed more people on the place to make a difference. I couldn't save them both and he couldn't have saved them both. So also asking why I didn't save Form is just continuing on the wrong tracks. So wishing to make me look like a culprit to the tragedy of yesterday (being herself one of those who voted for Form/Glirdy). Nice move Roa.

A misunderstanding indeed, but not intentional, and for that I apologize. But for not saving Form? You were there at the end when he made his statement, but it was Mith who made the last second save, not you. You conveniently dissapeared at that point, and this is point I am making.

I've already made an answer for my vote, and I wasn't there at the end to help or change my vote. You were, and you can't turn that back around on me.

Well You know, there are people who speak or tell things (truthfully) and then there are people who just "claim" something. So I'm also the one who just claims being somewhere or done something. Very untrusty guy this Nogrod fellow, isn't he? Unfortunately you can check the last ten minutes of the last night. I was there. I don't only claim to have been there. The real problem is, that there were no others...

No, the real problem, as I've just stated, is that you suddenly weren't there when Form made his reveal.

No one could have made the difference there alone! Go check the situation yourself for God's sake and stop being intentionally misleading. It's annoying (or then evil - you Roa know which one of these it is in your case). Some people here had voted stupidly and then refused to come back to help us out from the situation. To wolves that's just great, but for us others not.

Mith made the difference all by herself. You certainly didn't help her. So your statement is inherently false. Some people have to vote and leave because RL interferes. Scolding people for that is rather harsh of you. And I ask to refrain from using "stupid" as an attack. Everyone here is highly intelligent, and while we may have ade a mistake, we don't deserve that kind of debasement.

And Bingo! She got the word "flip-flopping" included in the post! Yes, that Nogrod is also a flip-flopper! First of all, the accusation is wrong as I have tried to explain here. But secondly - and I think even more importantly, it's there to rouse suspicion (because everyone is so confident that anything someone names flip-floppy is bad). So ungrounded rhetorics once again.

News flash! Flip-flopping is bad. It's a sign of a wolf trying to please the crowd. It was a statement of my own observations, which I deem to be correct.

Roa I have been pondering so far whether I could try to trust you on this game - it would be just so totally improbable that you were a baddie again. But as you are here trying to make a mountain out of a molehill just using only rhetorical means and intentionally misguided interpretations, and as I happen to know that their target is innocent, I'm getting somewhat alarmed. If you would be an ordo just missing the mark, you would have had been sharper, more intelligent, seeing actual connections or slips or whatever. Here you had none.

More intelligent? Ouch. Serously, I'm playing my best. I don't have the time I had last game to do huge analysis, but I will next Day. And if you aren't dead by then, you can expect an in depth analysis on you. I may be making a mountain out of a molehill, but that's what wolfish Ang and cobbler Jennysaid about my case against wolfish Boromir.

You may know your role, but we do not. So you can't accuse us all of looking for "an innocent' to lynch. I rather think that this "wolf on wolf" theory of Morm's regarding you and Kitanna may be right, but I'd have to look more closely at Kitanna, which I assure you I will.

[JennyHallu]

Noggin, I would add that I thought it interesting that Jenny Hallu highlighted Valier's absence yesterday in her own first post.

Canadians being thin on the ground yesterday (game time) is in itself no more suspicious than Americans being other wise engaged tomorrow (real time). Now Valier is as good as anyone at keeping a low profile as a wolf but she is worth keeping around incase she does her "wolfsmeller pursuivant " thing ...What happened in Canadia yesterday? And Val is a Canadienne?

Oh. Hunh. I'm just used to tons of Val posting long before I get around to posting.

[Roa_Aoife]

Times about up. After his display today, Nogrod is my number one suspect, so

++Nogrod

Hasta La Vista, wolfy.

[Nogrod]

I've seen an evil Roa to come back at the last minutes to secure her intended kill can't make it's way out of her net with a powerful rhetoric.

So you lynch me toDay, watch Roa really carefully!

Aggressive? Me? C'mon... Roa, you have seen me aggressive, this not even a half of it. :D

EDIT: X-posted with Jenny & Roa's vote

[JennyHallu]

Noggie, frankly you are worrying me, but not enough to vote for you. I don't think.

My suspicion list is currently:
Mith
Kitanna
Roa
Noggie
Kuru

With the last three about tied. Not sure who I want to vote for yet. I'll hold off a bit.

[Nogrod]

Well, let's make this better today than yesterday.

As I have said, I could go for Kitanna, Roa, Eomer or Jenny.

One is never sure (and of those at least one is innocent), but these I think worth trying.

X-posted with Jenny

[Macalaure]

I don't want Nogrod dead as I find him a little too aggressive but not off the mark and as innocent as one can feel somebody else.

Out of those who already have a vote, Eomer seems the one most likely to me to catch up on Nogrod.

Sorry Eomer, if you happen to be innocent.

-- Roa

++ Eomer of the Rohirrim

[JennyHallu]

Remember that since we have no Seer and so many wolves, kills are likely to be turned towards those they see most as threats during the day, and those who leave the least trail during the night. I honestly am not sure enough of Noggie's guilt to vote for him, but without some retractions, Kuru and I are not enough to change the outcome.

X'ed with Mac...have I enough time to check out Eomer, who's flown under my radar? Time to see.

[JennyHallu]

Eomer, if I may say it, has looked innocent all day today to me, and Noggie's attack on him seemed absolutely unfounded. Much more unfounded than Roa's on Noggie. Hmm..

[Nogrod]

Ok. I would have liked to try someone else of my list, but as you others seem so quiet, I'll try with this one then, just to save my neck (no gifteds around so at best an innocent for innocent).

++ Eomer

[Nogrod]

So
Nogrod 3
Eomer 3
Jenny & Valier 1

[JennyHallu]

Only Kuru and I left to vote, right? Or has Kuru voted and I missed it?

[Macalaure]

No, you haven't.

Mr. Haran? Would you please?

[JennyHallu]

I will not wait longer. I like neither choice presented, but Eomer seems reasonable, and you, Noggie, do not, but whether that mean you are a wolf or not...I can think of only one good way to find out.

++Nogrod

[JennyHallu]

Could we attempt to get through a day without last minute vote runoffs?

[JennyHallu]

Kuru? Time's almost up...

[Kuruharan]

Well, my vote is now not going to do much since Nogrod will now get the axe.

I believe I shall be consistent with what I have said from the beginning of this DAY and vote…

++ Macalaure

I realize this is not much more than a protest vote, but I’m going to stick with my own suspicions.

[Nogrod]

Okay. Thanks for the game.

Yes. I've been your helpful ordo trying to bring on some discussion and trying to find any clues for us to use. And as I saw at some point that I was getting heavily pressured I thought of making all out of it - to have a good sport myself and to leave you something to hunt the wolves toMorrow and the following Days.

Well, at least you can't say I didn't try to stir things up... :)

At lest you'll have something to read and think.

Best wishes & good luck.

[Macalaure]

It could have saved Nog if casted a minute earlier. :rolleyes:

[Valesse]

(I'm terribly sorry that this took so long, but there was no internet connection available. I'll have the wolf's kill up in a few moments after this, though they will be shorter than my usual epic story-posts.)

The camp was in high gear, pointing well trained fingers and debating alibis with bated breath. As Night drew nearer it was only clear that the future of Nogrod would be a considerably short one.

"How could you imply I'm the wolf!?" He shouted, throwing his hat on the ground. "I'm the splitting image of innocence! I'm concerned for... for..."
Eomer rolled his eyes and rubbed his fingers together "Yeah, yeah, and this is the world's smallest violin playing the world's sadest song."

"This is making my head hurt" Macalaure groaned, massaging his temples.
"Oh thats so bad? You're going to try to kill me!" barked Nogrod, blowing his whistle loudly into his ear.

Tired of the bickering, JennyHallu took matters into her own hands and gave Nogrod a hard slap on the back. Shocked, he swallowed his whistle, and grabbed his chest. With a painful last tweet Nogrod sprawlled out on the ground, dead. Waiting to see what would happen the camp members stared at their fallen whistle blower, but he wasn't going to be getting up again.


The Living:
Roa_Aoife- trick pilot, double-necked electric guitar.
Valier- town pickler, piccolo.
Macalaure- unskilled inventor of of funny fake occupation ideas, on the verge of bankruptcy, Tuba
Mithalwen- cat-herder, viola
JennyHallu- street corner doom-sayer, Aeolian wind harp
Mormegil- non-practicing wizard, triangle
Eomer of the Rohirrim- publican, double-bass
Kitanna- hermit, didgeridoo
Kuruharan- condottieri, flute

The Dead:
Valesse- Master Accordionist (Mod) stabbed with A Sharp key.
Gil-Galad- Artisan spoon player (Mod) choked on his musical spoons.
Glirdan- town musician, sax (Ordo) impailled on his music stand.
Formendacil- pirate, pipe organ (Seer) hung on a pipe organ yardarm.
Nogrod- idle fantasist, tin whistle (Ordo) asphyxiated on his whistle.

[Valesse]

Remorsefully retiring, the campers found the silence terrifying. They knew that at any moment the wolves would attack another one of their peers, and they would be powerless to stop them. They waited, frowing at the top of their tents for any sound or clues that they might suddenly come upon to catch the culprits.

Hours had past and Mormegil wandered out to maybe swipe a drink out of Eomer's wet bar, when suddenly he felt a sharp pounding on his head, and heard a pretty little "Ting!". Whirlling around he felt his breath leave him. There stood three werewolves, grinning and holding his triangle.

"But... but thats pure silver! You shouldn't be able to touch it!" whimpered the wizard.
The first werewolf shrugged "perhaps its a loop hole." And with that proceeded to bludgeon Mormegil with his triangle.

Scratched into the dirt the next morning next to Mormegil's body there was a note from the wolves, demanding no one else should even think about mentioning uncloaking... they were having nightmares of their own.


The Living:
Roa_Aoife- trick pilot, double-necked electric guitar.
Valier- town pickler, piccolo.
Macalaure- unskilled inventor of of funny fake occupation ideas, on the verge of bankruptcy, Tuba
Mithalwen- cat-herder, viola
JennyHallu- street corner doom-sayer, Aeolian wind harp
Eomer of the Rohirrim- publican, double-bass
Kitanna- hermit, didgeridoo
Kuruharan- condottieri, flute

The Dead:
Valesse- Master Accordionist (Mod) stabbed with A Sharp key.
Gil-Galad- Artisan spoon player (Mod) choked on his musical spoons.
Glirdan- town musician, sax (Ordo) impailled on his music stand.
Formendacil- pirate, pipe organ (Seer) hung on a pipe organ yardarm.
Nogrod- idle fantasist, tin whistle (Ordo) asphyxiated on this whistle.
Mormegil- non-practicing wizard, triangle (Ordo) bludgeoned with his triangle.

Thus begins Day three

[Mithalwen]

Well that was not unexpected. Time to decide what was the squabbling of alpha-innocents and what was the squabbling of alpha-wolves. But no time for me now.

[Macalaure]

Looking at yesterDay's posting a second and a third time I have a clearer and a bit different view of things.

Things got interesting yesterDay with Nogrod's post #72, where he accused everybody for not being around at the end of Day 1. The flaw in it was, that he said that he alone could not have done anything. He could just have done anything to save Form and Glirdan and see if somebody shows up then. He didn't. Insomnia and smoking (#76 & #77) then make him focus his attention on Eomer, of whom he is sure that he was around. Eomer is honest and admits it (#82), but does not see any guilt in it. He defends himself convincingly, to me.

Then Jenny presents her analyses. Note that she thinks Roa (#88) and Kitanna (#90) more suspicious than Valier (#92) and Mith (#93).

Roa criticises Nogrod among other things (#96) and this will shortly after make things ugly. She intentionally or unintentionally misunderstands Nogrod. She says Nogrod is after Eomer for not voting, but he's after him for not participating at all. She accuses Nogrod of flip-flopping with weak reason and the tiny word "claims" made even my alarm bells ring.

The following posts by Kitanna (#97 & #101) are interesting. In the first she defends Eomer. In the second she starts with a criticism of Nogrod, adopting the misunderstanding of Roa saying she wouldn't have caught it without her. She says Nogrod wants to call the paths of the village and calls him fishy. What follows in that paragraph then actually does make some sense.
I don't know what you think, but her words leave me with a bad feeling. They seem more than a little sneaky to me. Hard to put it in words.
Then she analyses the reactions to Form's posts. 'Surprisingly' she finds Nogrod suspicious in her conclusions and part of this is plain wrong.
Her points about Kuru make me lift an eyebrow. This might (and I mean might) have been a mild wolf-on-wolf suspicion to look good if one is lynched. Kuru doesn't react to this in any way.
Roa is more on the innocent side to her.

Now Nogrod answers to Roa (#103), waiving all diplomacy goodbye and going toe-to-toe with her, not a wise move after just being toe-to-toe with Eomer. To him, her misunderstanding was intentional among other things. Calling innocent villagers who go after him pathetic in #105 was just not nice.

A few votes and minor important things after comes Roa's response to it (#125). She apologizes for her misunderstanding and finally I understand what she meant with Nogrod claiming to be there. But, Nogrod wanted to save both Form and Glirdan before Form's revelation which came right at the deadline - when Nogrod presumably had already given up and wasn't reloading the page every 10 seconds any more.
The more Roa writes the angrier she gets and it's this what makes her believable to me. Not everything she says is justified, but her outrage feels real: she seems to just have read Nogrod's accusation.
He then accuses her of posting the answer late intentionally so he cannot answer, but I don't think so.

We're getting closer to the deadline and Jenny sees the only possibilities for voting to be Nogrod and Eomer. Eomer flew under her radar so far and she waits to quickly check him out. She comes to the conclusion that Nogrod is a bit more suspicious than Eomer and votes for him 2 minutes before deadline. If she was a wolf and so was Eomer, I don't think she would have waited, since Eomer was one retraction or vote by Kuru away from being lynched. But, Jenny, if I understand you right, then Roa and Kitanna were two of your top suspects. They both voted for Nogrod, too!

The Day ended with Kuruharan. Kuru, where were you yesterDay between 2:34 and 2:59? You were around and could have made the difference which you then lamented of not having. Very, very strange.
Very convenient to him, be he wolf or not, was agreeing to Eomer in #124, that even lynching an innocent Nogrod has its benefits. One benefit for Kuru is not having been suspicious to Nogrod.

After all, my suspicion of Roa decreased. I still think that either she or Kitanna is a wolf, but Kitanna's teaming up with Roa is one-sided, so it is Kitanna who's on the top of my list.
Kuruharan seems very odd to me.
I still don't know what to do with Eomer.
Jenny, Mith and Valier look more innocent to me.

[Kuruharan]

Bongiorno amici! You’ll have to excuse me as my beloved homeland’s magnificent and well-deserved victory has me virtually incoherent with joy!!

Signorina Kitanna has been laying low. However, this is normal for her. She’s not the most talkative around. She was the first to vote Nogrod yesterDAY.

Signore Eomer is an individual that I’ve wobbled back and forth on like a drunken football reveler headed for the latrine. At first I thought he was acting guilty. When it came to crunch time yesterDAY, I didn’t think he seemed so bad. Now I’m now wobbling back toward “I think he’s a bit furry” if for no other reason than Nogrod suspected him so strongly and it is good for Eomer that he is gone. Either way, I would dearly love to have some certain information regarding him.

Signorina Mithalwen has also been acting a bit odd throughout…(voted for Signora JennyHallu yesterDAY…now there’s a thought!)

Signora Roa_Aoife was a bit aggressive in her attacks yesterDAY. However, I think this actually speaks in her favor as reckless aggression is about the worst thing a wolf can indulge in.

Signore Mormegil was also rather repetitive in his suspicions of Signorina Valier. Perhaps this is another line on inquiry we should pursue.

Oddly enough, I’m now a little less suspicious of Signore Macalaure as his pouting at the end of the DAY (post # 143) seem sort of innocent (although it could very well be a ploy).

[Kuruharan]

Kuru, where were you yesterDay between 2:34 and 2:59?

Obviously, I was re-reading the thread. It had the reaction of causing me to doubt the utility of voting for either Signore Eomer or Signore Nogrod. I thought it was a choice that didn't amount to much as it seemed equally possible that both might be wolves or innocent. Unfortunately, we could only find out about one at a time.

[JennyHallu]

The more Roa writes the angrier she gets and it's this what makes her believable to me. Not everything she says is justified, but her outrage feels real: she seems to just have read Nogrod's accusation.

One comment I'd like to make is that Roa is past-mistress of using righteous anger to mask herself. She almost always gets mad at somebody...and it has absolutely no bearing on whether or not she's wolvish.

[Macalaure]

Signore Eomer is an individual that I’ve wobbled back and forth on like a drunken football reveler headed for the latrine. At first I thought he was acting guilty. When it came to crunch time yesterDAY, I didn’t think he seemed so bad. Now I’m now wobbling back toward “I think he’s a bit furry” if for no other reason than Nogrod suspected him so strongly and it is good for Eomer that he is gone. Either way, I would dearly love to have some certain information regarding him.
Would you give a reason why he suddenly was off your screen? Especially because: Signora Roa_Aoife was a bit aggressive in her attacks yesterDAY. However, I think this actually speaks in her favor as reckless aggression is about the worst thing a wolf can indulge in.
If that is so, then Nogrod must have been crowned by a halo to you. If both you and Eomer are wolves, a possibility that I don't think is improbable, then the ceasing of suspicion of him at crunch time really came in handy.


You’ll have to excuse me as my beloved homeland’s magnificent and well-deserved victory has me virtually incoherent with joy!! Arrr! Lynch him, lynch him I say! Lynch him good! :mad: ;)

[Kuruharan]

Mama mia! Not much is happening here.

Would you give a reason why he suddenly was off your screen? Especially because:
Signora Roa_Aoife was a bit aggressive in her attacks yesterDAY. However, I think this actually speaks in her favor as reckless aggression is about the worst thing a wolf can indulge in.

If that is so, then Nogrod must have been crowned by a halo to you. If both you and Eomer are wolves, a possibility that I don't think is improbable, then the ceasing of suspicion of him at crunch time really came in handy.

Ah! Because Signora Roa's reckless aggression was all focused in on one individual. Signore Nogrod's reckless aggression was focused on everybody and their mother. The Signore's aggression was of a moderately wolfish kind in that it will stir up more chaos and confusion, which is what a wolf wants to do. It is extremely imprudent for an ordo to indulge in reckless aggression against a single individual because it is likely that at some point you will find out...and if they are innocent...infama! Sensible ordos don't do it. I wouldn't put it past Signora Roa to try a bluff like this, but perhaps we can indulge her for the present.

Signore Eomer was off my screen because he seemed to have been behaving in a reasonable manner given the circumstances. You also must remember (something you seem to have conveniently forgotten since the end of yesterDAY) that, at the time, there was no reason to think either Signore Nogrod or Signore Eomer to be innocent. It seemed to be to be six of one and half-a-dozen of the other. We could only find out about one at a time (why has this obvious fact been so hard to impress upon certain people?)

Signore Eomer has been in this game very difficult to read. This may ultimately come to haunt him.

[Macalaure]

Nogrod was a bit angry about everybody in the beginning for not showing up. Aggressive he was only towards Eomer and Roa.

Though wolves like to cause confusion, they usually don't like to get the rope for it. Nogrod didn't seem to mind a lot.

Alright, in a way the lynching of Nogrod was good. He left trails. If we lynched Eomer and found him innocent, we would have had close to nothing. I was a bit one-sided about this because I was very confident about Nogrod's innocence. However, I haven't conveniently forgotten anything. Notice that I don't attack Jenny for voting Nogrod.

But your near-deadline behaviour of yesterDay is still shady to me. I'd really like to hear more opinions about it. Come on, people! Good weather is no excuse for not sitting at your computer. :D

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I'm here, and will hopefully have something more to add in a bit. One thought which strikes me is this. The wolves did not want Nogrod dead. He was a loudmouth and was making enemies and attracting suspicion like a flashy enemy-making-suspicion-attracting supercomputer.

Obviously this makes me look good because I voted for him ( :D ) but I think the point is still worth thinking about. The wolves would likely rely on the rest of the Ordos to round up the trouble-causing Nogrod. The wolves could afford to just stay the hell away from that battle, thinking they would look good in the process.

And no, that's not shady manipulation: I take great responsibility for Nogrod's death and am sorry about it. It took a couple of bottles of stiff whisky to get some shut-eye last night.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Mormegil for Valier: (Valier 1)

Kitanna for Nogrod: (Valier 1; Nogrod 1)

Eomer for Nogrod: (Valier 1; Nogrod 2)

Mithalwen for JennyHallu: (Valier 1; Nogrod 2; JennyHallu 1)

Macalaure for Roa_Aoife: (Valier 1; Nogrod 2; JennyHallu 1; Roa_Aoife 1)

Valier for Eomer: (Valier 1; Nogrod 2; JennyHallu1; Roa_Aoife 1; Eomer 1)

Roa_Aoife for Nogrod: (Valier 1; Nogrod 3; JennyHallu 1; Roa_Aoife 1; Eomer 1)

Macalaure switches from Roa to Eomer: (Valier 1; Nogrod 3; JennyHallu 1; Eomer 2)

Nogrod for Eomer: (Valier 1; Nogrod 3; JennyHallu 1; Eomer 3)

JennyHallu for Nogrod: (Valier 1; Nogrod 4; JennyHallu 1; Eomer 3)

Kuruharan for Macalaure: (Valier 1; Nogrod 4; JennyHallu 1; Eomer 3; Macalaure 1)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Kuruharan and Macalaure are playing us like fiddles. See them tease each other about jumpiness! See Mac vote for Roa in the hope of turning her into the next Nogrod-style-sacrifice (loud, argumentative players are good sport). See Kuru vote for Mac at the end yesterday, calling it 'a protest-vote'. See them setting up opposite camps today.

See them grinning behind those huge, sharp teeth! :p

[JennyHallu]

Eomer, I do not wonder but that you might be right about those two. I have not felt comfortable with Kuruharan all game, and I wonder that his quietness over the past two days is suddenly supplanted with discussion between himself and Mac. I still think that either Roa or Kitanna are wolves, but Kuru is definitely also a suspect.
So, incidentally, are you, but certainly not high on my list.

Mith also rounds out my list of worrisome characters.

This unfortunately leaves only Val and myself as people I'm sure are innocent. *sigh*

For now though, I think I know where my vote should be.

++Kuruharan

I'll try to be here through the rest of the day, but I don't know how much time I'll have for discussion.

[Roa_Aoife]

First off, I apologize for my lateness. (See TiGJ for more info.)

Secondly, Nogrod was innocent, so now I'm stumped. I'm still going to do my analysis of Kitanna, but my main suspicion of her was Nogrod's continual attack on her. Also, someone with more time may want to start analysis of the Nogrod and Eomer bandwagons. I'll see if I can get to a few before time runs out.

Eomer... your point about Mac and Kuru may have some merit, but I'd like to see where you get that from first.

[Macalaure]

Nogrod, though I will likely keep arguing for your death, please know that, if you are innocent, you will more than likely be very useful after you are gone. While I am very reluctant to take your theories at face-value just now, I will obviously give them the greatest of respect if I know their creator was of a good heart.The wolves did not want Nogrod dead. He was a loudmouth and was making enemies and attracting suspicion like a flashy enemy-making-suspicion-attracting supercomputer.So much for that.

Nogrod's theories were mainly against you, Roa and Kitanna. These three voted for him (and Jenny). Now, if the wolves didn't want him dead, none of these four is guilty. So, in a quite polemical way, you say his theories, that you claim to have the greatest of respect for, are wrong. Well, maybe they are, but don't they deserve a little more heed?

[Valier]

Sorry, sorry, sorry!!!!! My computer is now on the frits!!! So hopefully it stays on for the rest of the day! I will be around today and I will be back after I read through the day's posts.

[Kitanna]

I still have my suspicions of Kuru and Roa from yesterday, but I've moved Mac and Jenny up from unknown to slightly suspicious.

I stated yesterday that Kuru helped put Form on people's radars and it helped to influence Glirdan to vote Form on Day 1. And yesterday he voted Mac, but I don't find that overly suspicious simply because he often spoke of Mac as a suspect.

Mac has me worried about his first post today. He has moved Kuru up on his list, while Kuru seems to have moved him down on his (at least for the time being). Eomer suggests a wolf-on-wolf tactic between them. I don't quite agree. I admit it's been awhile since I've really gotten the chance to play with Kuru, but I feel a wolf Kuru would not act in such a way. I realize I could also be terribly wrong about that, but I don't think both Mac and Kuru are wolves, one or the other. I lean toward Kuru more.

As for Jenny, there's something about her... She's reasonable enough, but she's been known to be quite crafty. So far (for the most part) she's flown under the radar (a few others fall into this as well), but what really made me look at her was her vote for Kuru today. This is her second vote for him. If there's any wolf-on-wolf action I'd say Jenny and Kuru might be it. Should Kuru die by lynching and is proven a wolf, Jenny can slip under radars because she was on Kuru from the beginning. If Kuru were to die an innocent I'd say Jenny is more likely an innnocent villager than a fiendish wolf.

Finally there's Roa. She's excellent at covering her tracks, which is why I've kept her on my suspect list all this time. She's one of those players that you can never be sure of until they've died or been dreamt of. I find it hard to pin Roa down with anything truly concrete, though I've tried. There's really nothing for me to say about Roa that has not already been said.

Eomer=
I'm here, and will hopefully have something more to add in a bit. One thought which strikes me is this. The wolves did not want Nogrod dead. He was a loudmouth and was making enemies and attracting suspicion like a flashy enemy-making-suspicion-attracting supercomputer.

Obviously this makes me look good because I voted for him ( ) but I think the point is still worth thinking about. The wolves would likely rely on the rest of the Ordos to round up the trouble-causing Nogrod. The wolves could afford to just stay the hell away from that battle, thinking they would look good in the process.
Just so we're clear, you think no wolves voted for Nogrod? If that is what you're getting at, I find that quite hard to believe. What you say makes sense, the wolves wouldn't really need to worry about Nogrod because he was causing such a stir the village was really noticing him, but one wolf had to be hiding in the votes. Perhaps one of the later voters, such as Roa or Jenny.
It was no surprise when Roa voted for Nogrod, I'd have been shocked if her vote went another way. Jenny though, she seemed more concentrated on Roa, Valier, Mith, and myself during the first half of the day. She did mention Nogrod not doing much to help the seer at the end of the day, but unless I missed a post where she really went after Nogrod, I'm now wondering why she voted him in the end.

Jenny=Noggie, frankly you are worrying me, but not enough to vote for you. I don't think.
The "I don't think" at the end is what worries me.
Jenny=I will not wait longer. I like neither choice presented, but Eomer seems reasonable, and you, Noggie, do not, but whether that mean you are a wolf or not...I can think of only one good way to find out.

++Nogrod
Jenny voted and broke the tie between Eomer and Nogrod. Not counting Jenny's vote for a moment, at this point in the day and voting Nogrod would have died (unless Kuru had come on suddenly and voted for Eomer). I understand why Jenny voted for Nogrod, but she didn't really have too. She could have voted for one of those she was really suspicious of, but she didn't, she voted for Nogrod. Though her vote makes sense in the end, I'm still left wondering.

[JennyHallu]

I just don't like making throwaway votes, and whether or not you or Roa were higher on my suspicion list, what was the point of voting for either of you? I find Kuru's vote for Mac more suspicious than a tiebreaker. At the last second, he votes for someone not even in the running? Why?

[Kitanna]

I just don't like making throwaway votes, and whether or not you or Roa were higher on my suspicion list, what was the point of voting for either of you? I find Kuru's vote for Mac more suspicious than a tiebreaker. At the last second, he votes for someone not even in the running? Why?
I'd say because he didn't suspect Nogrod or Eomer.

I was planning on being on for the end of the day, but it doesn't look like that's possible right now. There's a still a slight chance I will be, but incase I don't, I don't want to leave now and not put down my vote.
I've narrowed it down to Kuru or Jenny. I've mentioned my reasons why I suspect each and I feel the same about both of them. As I said if there's any wolf on wolf actions here it's between these two.

++ Jenny

[Roa_Aoife]

I'm here, and will hopefully have something more to add in a bit. One thought which strikes me is this. The wolves did not want Nogrod dead. He was a loudmouth and was making enemies and attracting suspicion like a flashy enemy-making-suspicion-attracting supercomputer.

You do realize that wolves like these sorts of people around for the sole purpose hat they can lynch them? They kill these people during the day and use the excuse, "Well, you must admit they were being suspicious," while they kill the innocent people during the night. Your theory doesn't hold water, and smacks of trying cover your tracks.

I just don't like making throwaway votes, and whether or not you or Roa were higher on my suspicion list, what was the point of voting for either of you? I find Kuru's vote for Mac more suspicious than a tiebreaker. At the last second, he votes for someone not even in the running? Why?

Your point about Kuru is good, but I'd like to point out that your vote was thrown away. Nogrod was slated to die anyways, since we don't have double lynches, and he had reached the total first. The only ways he could have lived is if someone had voted for Eomer\, or someone else had retracted either their vote for Nogrod and voted elsewhere, or retracted and voted for Eomer, three things which were unlikely to happen. So all you did was vote for someone who was already about to be lynched. A nice way to avoid the appearance of throwing away while still throwing away.

[Valier]

Well this has been a very quiet day! Ok so Noggie was innocent, as I was sure he was.... Now alot of peoples views have changed today. I again will update my suspect list, because this helps me to catch wolves ala Valier style.

Mac: Your change of views from yesterday to today don't seem too wolfish to me. You seem like an Ordo looking for clues. I tend to agree with you about Roa and Jenny, they are looking more suspicious as the days go by.

Mith: Well Mith I find that you have been very quiet this game. I seem to remember a time that was full of "Frothyness";) So for now you are low on my list.

Jenny: Your vote does look weird when looked at today, but I agree with you about Kuru, you are however high on my list.

Eomer: I still don't know.....I just feel there is something odd going on with you....you are again high on my list.

Kitanna: Your post on Jenny and Roa heightens my suspicion of those two greatly, so for now you are low on my list.

Kuru: Another one I don't know much about. Good points have been made about you by a few and they are giving me insight...you are also high on my list.

Roa: Seems to be like herself, but you know Roa....crafty to the bone! I would not put it past her to string us along as a wolf.

So after all that...

Baddies

Jenny
Eomer
Roa
Kuru

Goodies

Mac
Mith
Kitanna

I also tend to think maybe Kuru is innocent, but he will stay on my baddie list until I think he should be moved.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Not only that, Kit, but look how quickly and easily Jenny accepted that crackpot Kuru/Macalaure theory I threw out there.

Roa, my theory holds buckets of water. I know fine well that the wolves saw Nogrod as lynching material, but the deed didn't have to be done that day. They could easily not vote for him, and try to leave him alive to cause confusion for one or two more days. It does not smack of trying to cover my tracks because I freely admitted — with a nod and a wink and a :p — that of course I would say this because I was a Nogrod-voter. It's hardly unusual for folks to try and allay suspicion of themselves but at least I was open about how caught up in that Nogrod mess I was.

And about Jenny's vote: it wasn't thrown away because if she had actually thrown it away and voted for Mithalwen, say, then Kuru could have sanctioned my death. So Jenny's vote was vital. I was tied on 3 votes with Nogrod, and there were 2 votes left to come. Unless I am reading this wrongly, you just made a completely false statement, Roa.

Mac, I don't see what the problem is. One can have respect for a theory or opinion even though he may ultimately conclude that it is wrong.

[JennyHallu]

Roa: my vote was not a throwaway vote, as Kuru had yet to vote. I had no way of knowing what he would do.

EDIT: X'ed with Eomer

[Mithalwen]

Sorry for quietness sleep/work/traffic... first real chance to post though had a quick read at lunchtime.. need to have a retrospective look to say anything of consequence but given that our only hope is to find three wolves straight and that the wolves only have to get any innocent lynched to win.... It needs to be really a case of finding 3 wolves not 1. Not too hopeful since there are far too many people around I know to be subtle wolves to have any confidence in anyone else's innocence

For the record silence wasn't frothyness - speaking without actually saying anything was frothyness..and since you were on my tail then I had to do what I had to do...

Anyway must catch up and find out what has been happening or not.

[JennyHallu]

I have thought Kuru looked wolvish for his noncommital tactics since day one. I did not say that I absolutely thought both Kuru and Mac were wolves, just that such a theory was possible. The exchange between the two made me nervous mostly because Kuru has avoided any sort of active exchange all game.

Apparently however, being consistent in a suspicion is suspicious. :rolleyes:

I think Kuru is a wolf, and I want him lynched.

[JennyHallu]

For the record silence wasn't frothyness - speaking without actually saying anything was frothyness..and since you were on my tail then I had to do what I had to do...
This phrasing seems really odd. Why do you feel you have to shake people off your tail, Mith? No one except for me has voiced any strong suspicion of you all game, and certainly nothing has been done about that suspicion. I don't think you've even garnered a vote.

[Valier]

For the record silence wasn't frothyness - speaking without actually saying anything was frothyness..and since you were on my tail then I had to do what I had to do...

Ah....this was only meant in jest:) No harm, no foul. :D Since you have been as quiet as myself this game, when we both are rather talkative, is what I was commenting on.


Edit: Jenny, this was from another time....long long ago. A little jumpy are we?

[Roa_Aoife]

Roa: my vote was not a throwaway vote, as Kuru had yet to vote. I had no way of knowing what he would do.

Kuru had, at that point, stated suspicion of niether Nogrod nor Eomer, and so was not likely to vote for either, as he has been constant in his votes and suspicions, thus far. Anyone paying attention could have guessed that. Even Nogrod knew that he was a definite lynch.

Roa, my theory holds buckets of water. I know fine well that the wolves saw Nogrod as lynching material, but the deed didn't have to be done that day. They could easily not vote for him, and try to leave him alive to cause confusion for one or two more days.

Why? It's my experience that wolves like to get rid of the loudest players early, usually through lynching because they can, and so leave the village to lose through quietness. And just because you're openly covering your tracks doen't mean you aren't covering your tracks.

And about Jenny's vote: it wasn't thrown away because if she had actually thrown it away and voted for Mithalwen, say, then Kuru could have sanctioned my death. So Jenny's vote was vital. I was tied on 3 votes with Nogrod, and there were 2 votes left to come. Unless I am reading this wrongly, you just made a completely false statement, Roa.

You are reading it wrongly. as I just stated, it was fairly certain the Kuru would vote for someone he had already found suspicious, which wasn't you or Nogrod. All you've done is point out how Jenny saved you. Which, if you are a wolf, as I am beginning to suspect, looks rather bad for her.

[Roa_Aoife]

Kitanna Summary (don't like summaries? don't read it. :p)

Day 1

1st - thinks Form is just trying to move things along with his first post, finds Nogrod and Roa more suspicious for constant rebuttals, Nogrod more so, thinks morm's plan could work, but points out some more flaws, doesn't buy Glirdan's early vote as random

2nd - Has to vote, laments not having much to go on, votes Glirdan for random vote for Form, still suspects Nogrod and Roa

Day 2

1st - Answers Jenny about vote for Glirdan, questions Nogrod about blaming others for not being involved, points out that a wolf could easily show at the end to look helpful and innocent, agrees with Kuru that Mac's post makes little sense, poinys out flaw in Kuru's reasoning

2nd - Agrees with Roa's points about Nogrod, makes a few more points about him, says her only suspicion about Form was due to activity between him and Nogrod and Roa, still concerned about wolfish activity in that, list of reactions to Form's first post, suspects Nogrod, Kuru, and Roa

3rd - Has to leave, votes Nogrod for reasons already stated,

Day 3

1st - Still suspicious of Kuru and Roa, but now also suspicious of Mac and Jenny

Kuru - first to state that Form's first post was suspicious
Mac - first post of today has her concerned, thinks either Mac or Kuru are wolves
Jenny - Looking at actions between Kuru and Jenny, suspects wolf-on-wolf action
Roa - becuase she's Roa

response to Eomer, points out flaws in his statement, more points about Jenny and her sudden suspicion of Nogrod

2nd - response to Jenny, narrowed suspects down to Kuru and Jenny, votes Jenny

[Macalaure]

First, I have to say, that Kitanna's posts today make actually sense and seem quite un-wolfish to me. Now I have to look for a new top suspect...

Second, the fact that Kuru threw away his vote is irrelevant: there was nothing reasonable he could have done with it at that time. I don't really buy his explanation for not being around earlier.

Kitanna's mention of Jenny and Kuru possibly doing wolf-on-wolf suspicions are interesting. What if the two and Eomer are the wolves? What horror must have befallen the two seeing that the to-them-known innocent Nogrod and their pal Eomer were at a draw and they were the last left to vote? Both managed to get around it, securing Nogrod's death and Eomer's survival.
This is just a theory, so don't jump at me for it.


Mac, I don't see what the problem is. One can have respect for a theory or opinion even though he may ultimately conclude that it is wrong. Giving reasons for dismissing a respected theory has never done any harm.

edit: cross-posted with Roa

[Roa_Aoife]

Kitanna Analysis

Kitanna has been rather quiet, but as she's always quiet, I don't find this terribly suspicious. If nothing else, she's been consistent in suspicions, votes, and opinions, though some have evolved as the game has progressed. She seemed a little eager to jump on the suspicion of Nogrod stated by myself and a few others, which looks bad. Unfortunately, I can't find much else besides that. This doesn't lower her in my suspicion, but it doesn't raise her, either.

[Mithalwen]

Ah....this was only meant in jest:) No harm, no foul. :D Since you have been as quiet as myself this game, when we both are rather talkative, is what I was commenting on.


Edit: Jenny, this was from another time....long long ago. A little jumpy are we?


Oh I know Val I replied in the same spirit .... I was a wolf then as we both understood hence there was no harm in using that expression. However it has indeed produced an interesting response ......

[Valier]

However it has indeed produced an interesting response ......
Ah...Agreed. Now perhaps a little insight into the brain of Valier and why she sometimes says the crazy things she says.

[Roa_Aoife]

Votes for Nogrod

Kitanna
Eomer
Roa
Jenny

Votes for Eomer

Valier
Mac
Nogrod

I'm going to get started on this list with Eomer, and see if I have time for more. I ask someone else to analyze me, and are there any volunteers to help me with the rest? A group of several would be good so we know we don't have a wolf trying to skew the results.

[Mithalwen]

Ah...Agreed. Now perhaps a little insight into the brain of Valier and why she sometimes says the crazy things she says.


Well desperate times call for desperate measures and since the Fat Lady maybe on the point of starting her vocalise - the agent provocatueuse thing is as good a strategy as any....

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I actually do find it unlikely that no wolf voted for Nogrod; all I was really trying to get across was that Nogrod was likely to be lynched without major help from the wolves.

Jenny's vote again. She effectively had the decision thrust upon her (if we are to totally dismiss the possibility that Kuruharan might change his mind). Nogrod or Eomer, Nogrod or Eomer. She votes one way or the other and pretty much dooms one of the individuals. How on earth can you read that as a throwaway vote? What possible meaning can that term have if you are to define it thusly?

And if I'm a wolf, then Jenny obviously saved me and is likely a wolf. But if I'm not a wolf, you can't ignore Jenny at all. She looks suspicious to me.

There is only one person in the village whose innocence I feel confident in, and that is Kitanna.

I feel like voting for any one of you others. By the way, Mith, it's not as hopeless as you make out. We can afford to slay another innocent today.

[JennyHallu]

Didn't realize you two were talking about a past game. Very confused.

[JennyHallu]

We can only afford to slay an innocent today if we nab the three wolves one after another for the rest of the game. We are getting down to the wire here.

If we slay an innocent today we wake up tomorrow with 3 wolves and only four innocents.

[Mithalwen]

I feel like voting for any one of you others. By the way, Mith, it's not as hopeless as you make out. We can afford to slay another innocent today.


How? There are eight of us now. 5 ordos 3 wolves.

lynch an innocent and we are 4/3

And innocent will die tonight
Tomorrow morning we are 3/3 and the wolves will win." if the number of wolves out weighs or matches those of the ordinary camp members the game is over."

[Valier]

Ummm I thought there are eight of us left in the village? If we lynch an Ordo today, we loose another during the night then there is six. Then the roles are tied at three and three. Does the game not end when it gets there?

[JennyHallu]

There are nine villagers, not eight.

[Mithalwen]

I did a flow chart while I was at work ( can't log on but scribbling on print out paper looks industrious ;) and it didn't take lomg..) and the only possible village win scenario is a hat-trick..starting now.

[Roa_Aoife]

Jenny's vote again. She effectively had the decision thrust upon her (if we are to totally dismiss the possibility that Kuruharan might change his mind). Nogrod or Eomer, Nogrod or Eomer. She votes one way or the other and pretty much dooms one of the individuals. How on earth can you read that as a throwaway vote? What possible meaning can that term have if you are to define it thusly?

If you agree that Kuru was unlikely to change his mind as suddenly as Jenny did, then she voted for someone already going to die. We don't have double lynches in this game, and Nogrod reach the highest number of votes first. Her vote made no difference in the outcome, she might as well have voted for someone she actually thought was guilty then one of two people she wasn't sure about. After all, you chose not to get involved with Form and Glirdan. Why couldn't she have done the same?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Nine villagers, I believe.

[Mithalwen]

Glirdan is listed as both living and dead......

But I think we are truly eight.

Eomer
Kit
Kuru
JH
Mith
Mac
RA
Val

[Roa_Aoife]

Jenny's right, we have 9 villagers, so it's 6-3. Technically we could lynch an innocent to day and still survive, but we would have to lynch a wolf tomorrow for certain, or we lose. But Mith is right in one repect- to win we have to pull a hat-trick as early as tomorrow. It's a risk I'd rather not take, since the wolves have been rather good at avoiding us up till now. That someone would suggest it's okay for us to lose another innocent makes me rather uncomfortable.

EDIT: Cross-posted. Never mind, Mith's right. Oh dear...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

We're picking at bones here, Roa. I suppose that, given the likelihood of Jenny not suddenly finding something particularly suspicious about Nogrod or me, and the probability of Kuruharan not doing something similar, Jenny's vote can be construed as effectively meaningless. It's definitely not a throwaway vote, though. Kuruharan's vote was a throwaway because it affected the lynching not at all; Jenny's vote was not a throwaway, because it ultimately decided who would be lynched.

[Mithalwen]

Now is not keeping proper track of the players a mark of innocence or guilt? I would incline to the latter since the true innocents are trying to work out the wolves and are liable to have their own lists and charts whereas our wolves are happy to kill any innocent especially since they have no gifteds to worry about in this camp....

[Mithalwen]

Who is the ninth villager then.. we started with 12 and 4 are dead...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Curses! You're right! The spectre of Glirdan hovers over us, authorising the vengeance we so truly deserve! :eek: :D

[Macalaure]

8, Glirdan is still in Valesse's list, but his corpse doesn't count. :p

Eomer is throwing a whole lot of red flags at me at the moment. He defends Jenny's vote of yesterDay, yet he is strongly suspicious of her. His reasons for it are exclusively the reasons others, especially Kitanna, gave (I don't count that crackpot thing). Are you trying to throw us off the trail of your fellow wolf? You leave no trail about who you will vote for toDay, leaving me highly excited. Please, care to share your suspicions with us all if you want to catch wolves.

edit: cross-posted with a lot of you

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I think this game is ending with today's vote. :(

I'm just going to say it. I think the wolves have played very well. I have no strong suspicions and, like I said, there is only one person in this whole village who I can single out as being more or less suspicious than the others.

Mac, I defend Jenny's vote because it's worth defending, especially against the slightly weak accusations. And I thought Kitanna made good points about her. Where did I say I am strongly suspicious of Jenny? I said I was suspicious of her, but then I am suspicious of everyone besides Kitanna.

[Macalaure]

You said you're suspicious of everybody, yet you pointed out Jenny. That made strong suspicion to me.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Considering the voting...

++ROA_AOIFE

Eager to get Formendacil out, and she's also the sole Nogrod voter ( :p ). Also, her slightly bizarre murmurs about Jenny don't make any sense.

For this reason, I say that Jenny is innocent.

Other wolves: probably.....Kuruharan, and.....Valier. *shrugs shoulders*

I know I've earned the trust of no-one ( ;) ) but this time I really am innocent. Come on. Why would I would be a wolf again. Common sense, people.

Good night! This is too stressful for my liking. It's no fun being clueless.

[Roa_Aoife]

she's also the sole Nogrod voter

Everything else aside, what?

[Mithalwen]

For this reason, I say that Jenny is innocent.

.


Begin to think you both guilty.... really have ever wolves had to look at the village less? Seer has to reveal self day 1 and names innocent giving wolves 2 no-brainer night kills.

Sure innocents would not be so slipshod............

Inclined to think Roa innocent ... butneed to read and keep getting distracted.

I don't think the wolves have had to play that well so far - especially considering most players in this strong village have been successful wolves previously - Forms Day 1 weariness played into thier hands - and remember they could PM all that time - Praising yourself Eomer?

In small basic games the villages best hopes are careless wolves and a good run from the seer...

[Macalaure]

++Eomer

This guy is ridiculous.

I think he means Roa is the only one to have voted Nogrod beside the ones he deems "innocent": himself, Kitanna and Jenny all of a sudden.

Since we're all dead if we don't get to lynch a wolf we shouldn't spread our votes too much. This gives the wolves a lot of power.

I will be here until the deadline, but I hope I won't have to change my vote.

[Mithalwen]

Well the wolves are in such a powerful position they can practically declare .... and maybe Eomer has..it is so his style :(

[Roa_Aoife]

Eomer Summary

Day 1

1st - Says he was waiting for the first person to jump on the Glirdan bandwagon, thinks Morm's reasons for voting Glirdan are weak, votes Morm

2nd - Resents being lumped in with "Baddies" on Valier's list, points out that there are only three wolves, thinks Form's stance is puzzling

3rd - respnse to Nogrod, insists he has been helpful, at least with his idea about Morm

Day 2

1st - Doesn't follow Nogrod, points out that he thought Glirdan was likely innocent, not definitely innocent, admits to watching the end of Day 1, says he didn't know what he could do to help, says he didn't have anything worth adding, stands by vote for Morm

2nd - Says Nogrod is mis-using his statement, thinks Nogrod is being hypocritical, thinks Nogrod is using a victim of circumstance argument

3rd - points out to Kuru that Mac was joking, points out that Nogrod jumped from him to Roa rather easily, accuses Nogrod of hogging the moral high-ground, Votes Nogrod

4th - Laments having to kill Nogrod

5th - Says Nogrod's death will be good even if he's innocent

Day 3

1st - Doesn't think the wolves would be inolved in Nogrod's lynching, is sorry about his role in Nogrod's lynching

2nd - Previous Day's voting

3rd - Suggestion about Kuru and Mac being fellow wolves

4th - adds to Kitanna's case against Jenny by adding his own point, insists his theory about he wolves leaving nogrod alone is good, also insists that Jenny's vote was important

5th - Says that he finds it unlikely that no wolf voted for Nogrod, says Jenny "had the decision thrust upon her, not to ignore Jenny even if he is innocent

6th - "Nine villagers, I believe."

7th - Continues to insist that Jenny's vote was not throw away, but Kuruharan's was

8th - "Curses! You're right! The spectre of Glirdan hovers over us, authorising the vengeance we so truly deserve!"

9th - Thinks the game will end with today's vote says he's supicious of everyone except Kitanna, not just Jenny

10th - Votes Roa, says she was eager to get rid of Form, was the "sole voter' for Nogrod, thinks her accusation of Jenny was bizarre

[Kuruharan]

My goodness, a lot has happened all of a sudden!

I'm afraid I haven't much time.

I'm most suspicious of Eomer and Jenny right now. I'd really like to lynch both of them as I think one of them has to be a wolf.

Now, do I go with the suspicion that I've had from DAY ONE or do I assume I've been wrong the whole time and vote Jenny (she certainly seems to have had it in for me from the start)?

Oh, what to do...must vote shortly...

[Roa_Aoife]

Eomer Analysis

The first thing that stood out to me was his reaction to Valier's list. He immediately objected to being put on the "Baddies" list, and was quick to point out that not everyone on the list could be a wolf, because there were five in the list and only three wolves. Given that it was Valier's first list, and was likely primarily nonsense, I find this over-reaction to be rather telling. He also insisted to Nogrod that he was being helpful, but he had only made one useful point so far that day. He puts it in a voice of indignation, which is a tactic I myself have used as a wolf. Another thing- he accused Nogrod of using a "victim of circumstance" defense when he stated that he was in a position to decide the outcome. However, he used this same defense to supposrt Jenny's last minute vote for Nogrod, which efectively saved him. His vote for Morm had the same poor reasoning that he claimed Morm's vote for Glirdan was. Morm voted for Glirdan because he was the first to jump on the Form suspicion, Eomer voted Morm because he was the first to jump on the Glirdan suspicion. He also claimed not to understand Nogrod's attack on him, which is again a tactic I have used myslef when being unable to dissuade an attacker as a wolf. Not only that, but he seemed fairly certain of Nogrod's guilt up until voting for him, coming up with various points against him, but then said that even if Nogrod was innocent his death would help the village. And today, he declared that he was sad about the role he played in Nogrod's death and that he regretted it. That's quite a turn around. And earlier today he stated that he didn't think the wolves would have been inolved in Nogrod's lynching, and even continued to defend that point against opposition, until he suddenly backed down and said hat he didn't really think that way. That's not even mentioning how he was suspicious of Jenny, only to drop it in favor of attacking the biggest of his detractors. Over all, Eomer is acting very suspicious, and has back tracked, flip-flopped, and jumped back and forth on his opinions, flowing to suit the crowd.

After all this, I'd have to say his leaning is becoming obvious.

++Eomer

We have to get a wolf today, or we're toast.

[Mithalwen]

Kuruharan: I am reviewing but htere isn't enough time. I think both are wolves ... the third I don't know but htat is academic if we don't pick right. Teh ordos don't have much scope to spread the vote ... so chances are I will follow your lead

[Roa_Aoife]

Voting thus far

Kuruharan 1 (Jenny)
Jenny 1 (Kitanna)
Roa 1 (Eomer)
Eomer 2 (Mac, Roa)

Left to vote: Kuru, Mith, Valier

[Kuruharan]

I'm inclined to agree with Mithalwen. I think they both are.

I have a little bit of time left before I have to leave, but since Eomer is the one getting votes now...

++ Eomer

Requiescat in Pace if we are wrong.

[Macalaure]

As long as nobody retracts, Eomer is dead meat.

Good so. :)

[Mithalwen]

And don't let forget his odd reaction this evening.... it is pointed out that the ordos situation is more dire than he thought and he packs up early with a cop out vote.

Roa I haven't time to fully examine you but I haven't seen anything particularly suspicious...more alpha ordo clashing antlers with other alpha ordos.

++ Eomer

[Mithalwen]

Cross post - but a little solidarity among those who will die together if we are wrong is no bad thing.

[Macalaure]

Ah, I'm sorry. The bloodthirst rode me. I think the chances that we are wrong are very thin. If it happens to be so, I apologize to you, Eomer.

But I really don't think so.

[JennyHallu]

Just want to say: I'm not a wolf! I really am not!

[Valier]

Whoa you go for a quick shower thinking not much will happen and now look:rolleyes:

Ok I believe Kuru and Mith have both got it right with Eomer and Jenny, so here's hoping we make it through the night...

++Eomer

[Kitanna]

I have a few moments to spare and this caught my attention.

Your point about Kuru is good, but I'd like to point out that your vote was thrown away. Nogrod was slated to die anyways, since we don't have double lynches, and he had reached the total first. The only ways he could have lived is if someone had voted for Eomer\, or someone else had retracted either their vote for Nogrod and voted elsewhere, or retracted and voted for Eomer, three things which were unlikely to happen. So all you did was vote for someone who was already about to be lynched. A nice way to avoid the appearance of throwing away while still throwing away.
I stand by my vote for Jenny, but this bit from Roa has me raising my eyebrow. Roa, do you honestly believe Jenny's vote was a throwaway? I can't say I agree with how Jenny voted knowing that she really didn't suspect Nogrod, but I'd hardly call that a throwaway vote simply because Nogrod was already set to die. It alarms me a bit you would say something like that Roa.
I've said before Jenny's vote was a bit odd and I still think it is, but Roa saying it was a throwaway vote is no less strange to me. If you were to label Jenny's vote for Nogrod as anything, I'd say it was a safe vote.

I smell something foul between these two and their voting.

[Mithalwen]

I don't disagree with your vote for Jenny, Kit but we can only lynch 1 and I think we have 2 wolves. I went for Eomer because the case is compelling and not all of us who vote for him can be wolves but scarily one at least may be...... has to be if you are innocent..but only you know about that...

[JennyHallu]

I'm NOT a wolf!!!!

[Valesse]

Time is up, please stop posting.
The story will be up in a while.

[Mithalwen]

To reuse the words of Mandy Rice Davies "(s)he would say that wouldn't (s)he?"

[Valesse]

The stress that day was nearly as thick as the mist. It was terrible, first, to know that three werewolves were among them, but having to stand so close to them just to be able to see everyone was what truely horrified the campers. As the day went on, and the debating grew more and more intense, Eomer the publican resigned himself to his fate with a sigh.

Macalaure shook his head, "He has to be a wolf...there is no other explanation..."

"That is if you forget the explanation I gave." Eomer sighed, thinking more and more about how they were going to proceed with the task of killing him. Brutes. Killing a bartender is one thing, but taking out a publican is surely barbaric behavior! Thinking on all of the previous deaths Eomer stood and smartly put away his instrument, so no one would be able to use it as a weapon.

"If you aren't a wolf...then there is no way we're getting out of here alive." Mithalwen said at length, like a true violist entering at an awkward time and at an awkward pitchy squeek. "If Eomer isn't a werewolf... we're doomed."

Kuruharan raised his hand with florish and interjected "Quite so, Cat-herd, but JennyHallu had stated that exactly fifteen minutes ago. Now... it's nearly dark.. and I really must stress how important we get this done with... after all.. we should bury him before night."

As the campers circled Eomer, he raised a stein and took his last drink. It was a nicely aged mead, however oddly bitter. "Any last words, wolf?" sneered Valier.

Eomer looked up at her and growlled "Don't let her pickle me."

"Thats do-able" JennyHallu shrugged, and leaned against her Aeolian harp. Catching onto the idea Roa_Aoife joinned her, tipping the structure over and crushing Eomer underneath. "...that was also much messier than I thought..."

"Nothing is happening" whimpered Macalaure.
Kuruharan snorted "Thats because we didn't kill a wolf."

The Living:
Roa_Aoife- trick pilot, double-necked electric guitar.
Valier- town pickler, piccolo.
Macalaure- unskilled inventor of of funny fake occupation ideas, on the verge of bankruptcy, Tuba
Mithalwen- cat-herder, viola
JennyHallu- street corner doom-sayer, Aeolian wind harp
Kitanna- hermit, didgeridoo
Kuruharan- condottieri, flute

The Dead:
Valesse- Master Accordionist (Mod) stabbed with A Sharp key.
Gil-Galad- Artisan spoon player (Mod) choked on his musical spoons.
Glirdan- town musician, sax (Ordo) impailled on his music stand.
Formendacil- pirate, pipe organ (Seer) hung on a pipe organ yardarm.
Nogrod- idle fantasist, tin whistle (Ordo) asphyxiated on this whistle.
Mormegil- non-practicing wizard, triangle (Ordo) bludgeoned with his triangle.
Eomer of the Rohirrim- publican, double-bass (Ordo) crushed under Aeolian wind harp.

Wolves, choose your last kill.

[Valesse]

Valier and Roa_Aoife turned and looked at JennyHallu, narrowing their eyes. "I am not the wolf! I'm not! I told you!" Jenny shouted back, feeling fear grow inside of her.
"Then...Why are you so frantic?" Kuruharan frowned heavily, crossing his arms.
"Because I don't want to die! I'm not a wolf!" Jenny sobbed again.

Behind her Kitanna lifted up her didgeridoo and weighed it in her hand "We know you're not the wolf, Jenny... you can calm down."
"You... do?"
"Of course!" the hermit replied with a smirk. "But by we I mean the other wolves and myself. However, I don't have time to chat, doomsayer, so this is goodbye!" And with that, Kitanna swung her mighty musical bat, hurlling Jenny deep into the mist.

Macalaure gasped "I knew it!" backing away and groping around for anything to use as a weapon against the now lupine Kitanna.
"But what you didn't figure," Roa_Aoife smirked "Was her partners in crime."
"I'm going to pickle you good!" Valier laughed, licking her lips.

Mithalwen shook her head in disbelief, holding her viola bow as if it were a sword, but quickly Roa_Aoife was advancing on her, holding the now evil looking double-necked electric guitar in one claw. "Stay away from me!" she shrieked, protecting herself the best way a violist can... starting to play. Roa_Aoife winced and with a flick of her paw, the viola disappeared in the same way as JennyHallu.

With a quick jab, Mithalwen was dead. Stabbed in the chest with both necks of the guitar.

"Mithalwen! Nooooo!" cried Macalaure, frantically trying to out run Kitanna the wolf. Surely refuge in his tent would give him some time, but as it struck him that the werewolves almost always went inside of the other's tents he found himself in a dark world stuffed inside of his tuba. "You lack originality, Wolf!"

"Yeah... but I always wanted to do that." Kitanna smiled, contently.

Outside the last villager was being cornered against the camp leader's tents by Valier, who had not quite finished alternating from licking her lips and playing her piccolo. She was watching Kuruharan like a pshycopath. Every twitch of his eye, or flinch he made at a high note was over seen. "Pickled Condottieri." She smirked "That sounds delicious."

"Stand back! If you lay a fing..a claw on me my entourage will come and avenge my death!"
Valier sighed, not wanting the verbal battle so close to sweet murder "that is if they can find you." Swiftly she grabbed Kuruharan by his garb and dragged him into her tent. There, impressively, stood an immense jar.
"No! I will not be pickled meat!" Kuruharan struggled valiantly. "I will not allow you to...!" He found Valier's piccolo, and pulled it from her claws and with great effort forced it into her chest.
Valier howlled in rage and threw Kuruharan into the jar. "Don't tell me what I can and can not pickle." She glared, closing the lid tightly.

_______
Great game, everyone,
Congrats, wolves!

[Mithalwen]

Ah well if you are going to be done up like a kipper you might as well be done by these three.... well done.... the nights clearly presented no major decisions for you but you did very well during the days to finish us off so early and convincingly.

Careers in politics surely beckon for you all ... Kudos

Something tells me that Kitanna feels a bit better about my game now :D

[Mithalwen]

And well done Valesse ... guess your unused wolf transformation scenes will have to gather dust on the cutting room floor with my death scenes for Nogrod and D18..... :D

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well done, wolves! Why on earth did I trust Kitanna. I should clearly know better. ;)

I'm surprised I was rounded on so vehemently on that last day. At least I feel some comfort knowing that I voted for one wolf.

Nogrod, our fates were oh so similar in the end. Tragic, in a way (at least for us).

And no matter that you fiends brutalised our village; I graduated today and so even you cannot diminish my happiness. :p (Like I said, well-played. :) )

[Nogrod]

It's quite near that I would say "I told you!", but maybe I won't... :)

In a hurry now, but some words later.

Congrats to the evil trio!

[JennyHallu]

Roa and Kitanna had to be panicked all game.

[JennyHallu]

And I told you I wasn't a wolf.

[Mithalwen]

Well you both behaved more wolvishly than the wolves...... so not too much scope for being smug :p I couldn't believe my eyes when Eomer was innocent..

[Valier]

mmmm pickled villagers......Ha I totally did not think we would get away with it. Sorry Eomer for the last day, but hey we were close to a win. I hope everyone had a good time, I know I did! I must say this was the most fun I've had as being a wolf. Great working with you wolfies! Valesse I loved the final death narration and thanks for adding the pickled thing.:D

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

You had it in for me since Day One, Valier. :p

How could you?

[JennyHallu]

*sigh* How can I act more "wolvish" than wolves do? I never did understand why you thought me so suspicious.

[Valier]

Sorry Eomer!!! I just picked someone I thought the village would want to kill....I was right.:p

[Kitanna]

Roa and Kitanna had to be panicked all game.
Panicked the whole game? No, not quite. A little worried that last day, but never panicked. Though with retractable votes involved I always get this horrible feeling of dread. *looks at Mith*

But well-played all around, especially my wolven comrades. And kudos to Valesse.

[Roa_Aoife]

Kudos to my fellow wolves, Valier and Kitanna! Though I have to admit I'm some what disappointed we never got to use a Valier campaign on someone. That would have been the best. *sigh* Oh well...

Roa and Kitanna had to be panicked all game.

Actually I wasn't concerned about myself. I was a little concerned that Nogrod would carry through on his suspicion of Kitanna, but fortunately he went after Eomer and then took the bate with my distraction. (Sorry for picking on you when you're having a bad day, but you know how it is....)

I was surprised that no one picked up on me being one of the driving forces behind both our innocent lynchees. They helped, of course. Also, for all the talk of the voting record no one noticed that Valier, Kitanna and I voted the same pretty much the whole time.

So, Eomer, your theory really didn't hold water- we all helped lynch Nogrod. Why? Because we could. It's just best to go after someone who will garner suspicion from just about everywhere, and it's especially good to get rid of a power player early on, before he can get up to attack speed and lynch us all. I mean, at one point he listed the three of us as his suspects. And yet, no one listened to him....

Also, I have to say that I'm always amused by the, "I supect Roa because she's Roa. Not that I have any concrete evidence or anything; it's just Roa."

[Valesse]

Aw, thanks y'all.

It was very amusing watching the game, knowing how close and yet how far everyone was from catching the wolves.

Props to everyone! :D

[Mithalwen]

Worried the last day ...... you could have put your paws up! Especially since half the ordos didn't seem to realise how dire the situation was. :rolleyes: Felt like Judith in The Life of Brian....

At least I have ammunition in the future for anyone who finds my taste for statistics suspicious.. I really thought it was hopelesse given that you only had to wait for a non-returner to vote for an innocent and you had it in the bag.... but I guess tha it just proves what goes around comes around.... I will have to find a way to avenge viola players though!!

[Mithalwen]

Also, I have to say that I'm always amused by the, "I supect Roa because she's Roa. Not that I have any concrete evidence or anything; it's just Roa."

Amused? But surely not surprised...... ?

[Valesse]

I couldn't resist the viola jokes, Mithalwen. I just couldn't. :p

[Mithalwen]

Well I am surprised you didn't use the one "how many viola players does it take to wall paper a room? - it depends on the size and how thinly you slice them..." :rolleyes:

[Glirdan]

So, have you all learned your lesson? You have!? What is it? That's right! Don't lynch Glirdan because he's ALWAYS confusing and ALWAYS votes randomly on Day 1. Good job! Cookies all around. :p

Wolves, great job. You did really well.

Now, I'm off to go and (hopefully) start up the planning of my game (unless Samwise is back...). Hope to see some of you (actually, I can name three off the top of my head who SHOULD be there) in it. Again, great game!! :D

[Roa_Aoife]

Amused? But surely not surprised...... ?

Sadly, no. It's a bit frustrating, as I seem to be lynched or dreamed of and then lynched on mere principal, despite leaving no discernable trail. I'm half tempted to come up with a new ID to play games anonymously, but I think that might be frowned upon. Ah, well, I suppose I should have thought of that when I was being all sneaky. Hopefully I'll actually be innocent in few games, to get this whole "Evil Roa" stigma to die down.

Also, I'll be watching you Valier, just in case you decide to pull that campaign of yours when your guilty. (Though I'd still enjoy seeing it.)

And Valesse, very well written. I was thoroughly amused every time.

[Nogrod]

Kudos for the wolves for being so bold!

Think how I felt, when in the middle of Day2 I noticed being voted consequently by "all the wolves"!

Yes, that was the turning point (Roa's vote), when I started lowering my suspicions on Eomer. Valier totally went under my radar, but Kit and Roa were there all the time, as numbers one and two. Had I just had one Day more...

But surely - as I said in the end - Roa secured her evil kill at the last minutes. She probably had written that nicely in advance and then just waited for the tactically right moment to throw it in so that the last possibly wawering voters would go her way. That's one of the reasons I admire her gaming. She's an overkill! :)

And I agree with Roa's bafflement. Why didn't you go to see such basic thing like voting records or something? I tried to yell with all my lungs thrown in through the keyboard: "See! See! There are the wolves confidently lying at the best possible spots on Day1 voting list!" - the ones I had pointed you otherwise earlier... Only Macalaure seemed to pay heed to those.

One thing I also am a bit baffled about was the consensus of me being suspicious. Forgive me, but would a wolf play like that? A nice clean and early vote for Glirdy or Form on Day1 and then out from the game (not involving oneself in the end of the Day) and then some this and that, maybe loose theories towards those already found suspicious by others (or those no one had bothered yet - as to look helpful) etc. - and through the Day2 with no actual effort or involvement. Yes and a wolf-win...

But it was fun as long as it lasted! From a long time I had time - and as Maca put it correctly, I really didn't care. I wanted to find the wolves and thaet's what I tried to do. I thought you others could draw your conclusions.

Well you sure did, with the assistance of these ingenious wolves... :D

Maybe next time I try the under-radar stuff? (probably get killed on Day1 just for that reason...)

But I enjoyed it with all of you! It's always nice to have tension and be pressed to perform well. Somehow I'm a bit disappointed of not managing to get you convinced, but being right with two wolves and four innocents kind of help to heal the wounds... :D

Thank's everyone!

And Valesse too. Hilarious!

[mormegil]

My top 5 suspects in order are:

Eomer
Valier
Roa
Jenny
Kuru


I've learned that my instincts are better than my analysis often times. In the last two games I've identified two to three wolves and had them as my top candidates I die and nobody listens to what I had to say. Shortly after this I dropped my suspicion of Eomer so Valier and Roa were on top.

Oh that you would have listened to me :p

Kitanna looked odd but as I trusted Nogrod and I didn't know what to think of Kitanna I wanted him to take that and he did.

[Formendacil]

This is the first time I've ever made noises at the computer after being killed... noises along the lines of "Idiots! Idiots! Don't lynch him!!! ARGH!"

Yeah... I stand by what I was saying: Idiots! :p

[Macalaure]

Amazing game by the wolves. Just amazing.

Valier wasn't anywhere near my radar and Roa and Kitanna, well, you teamed up so obviously on Day 2 I couldn't believe you both were wolves.
Roa, you scare me. :p

And I still cannot believe Eomer is innocent. I didn't trust my eyes when I first read it. I'm sorry my language got a bit harsh at the end - I was just too sure and confident.

And chapeau to Nogrod, who was closest of all of us to identify the lupines.

[Mithalwen]

This is the first time I've ever made noises at the computer after being killed... noises along the lines of "Idiots! Idiots! Don't lynch him!!! ARGH!"

Yeah... I stand by what I was saying: Idiots! :p

20/20 hindsight is great isn't it? And it may not have been a bravura performance - but I lived longer than you :p ....

[Formendacil]

Actually.... I've got to ask...

Assuming that Glirdy and I had tied votes at the end of Day 1, would my assumption that I (having garned the votes first) have been lynched, be correct?

I've heard some whining that I didn't do myself any favours by waiting so long reveal my seerness- but the fact is that until the last minute (which is when I posted in revelation) I hoped to survive the Night.

By the time I posted that Morm was innocent, it looked plain to me that I was going to be lynched- so I made sure that the village knew who I'd dreamed of. Mith coming along and saving me merely meant that the Wolves had to finish me off, instead of the village.

[Mithalwen]

By the time I posted that Morm was innocent, it looked plain to me that I was going to be lynched- so I made sure that the village knew who I'd dreamed of. Mith coming along and saving me merely meant that the Wolves had to finish me off, instead of the village.
I realise that but it still seemed the best thing to do despite it make me look like a bungling idiot :rolleyes:

[Formendacil]

I realise that but it still seemed the best thing to do despite it make me look like a bungling idiot :rolleyes:

Well for you, I agree it was best...

But for me, I had no idea you were coming back. By that point, it looked like my fate was sealed... and I didn't want my Seership COMPLETEY wasted.

[mormegil]

Being the seer can be tricky because you must be moderately suspicious but not enough to get you killed. I wasn't going to be lynched in one game but the problem was that our hunter thought I was guilty enough to kill me :D . I cannot decide which role I enjoy the most...Seer or WW. Both I don't get enough :rolleyes: