WW XXIIX - Queer Lodgings [Archive] - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Oddwen

01-07-2007, 09:47 AM

By the time the wizard had finished her tale and had told of the eagles' rescue and of how they all had been brought to the Carrock, the sun had fallen behind the peaks of the Misty Mountains and the shadows were long in Beornómien's garden.

"A very good tale!" said she. "The best I have heard for a long while. If all beggars could tell such a good one, they might find me kinder. You may be making it all up, of course, but you deserve a supper for the story all the same. Let's have something to eat!"

"She made a lot of stuff up!" squeaked Meneltarbo Baggins, but stopped when Valier stuck out her fake bushy eyebrows at him and scowled him into silence.

"The quintessential adventurer's story," said Thorin Anguirelshield stroking his beard. "You have my thousand thanks for allowing us temporary regenerative repose in your naturalistic domicile, notwithstanding the dubious circumstances of our arrival..."

"Oh no, now we'll never get to eat," moaned Bomburlass. "He'll go on for hours!"

"However, there is something of importance that I feel obligated to tell you Beornómien," said Valier. "While we escaped from the goblin's lair, I fear we may have inadvertantly fallen into something far more dangerous."

"Whatever do you mean?" chorused Nari and Eomi.

Valier, in truth, never minded explaining her own cleverness more than once.

"What I mean is that we are getting rather nearer to the dark abode of the Necromancer. And I, as you no doubt probably did not know, I am highly interested in his movements for secret and important reasons of my own, the reasons for which will no doubt become common knowledge sooner than I would like."

"Indeed, you are farther in than you ever hoped to dare," came a very deep voice. The voice came from a very ancient looking dwarf, whose snow-white beard was looped several times across his shoulders. A gasp came from all of Thorin's company, and they fell to their knees.

"Durin the Deathless!" they cried. "It is an omen, by Mahal!"

"We shall see about that," he said wryly. "It is said that the Necromancer has tried to ensnare dwarves before, and failed. He has slain us, and gotten nothing from it but what was already his. But this time, I fear for the Naugrim."

All the people in Beornómien's house felt chills run up and down their spine.

"Werewolves," muttered Valier.

"Yes indeed," nodded Durin. "This is cursed ground. All who stand upon it are suspect."

"Out of the goblin's lair to be caught by wolves to be rescued by eagles only to be turned into wolves!" cried Meneltarbo, and it became a sig line, but of course he didn't know it yet. "Can't we run away, or eat some medicinal plant, or something?!?"

"There is no cure for Werewolfery," said Valier. "At least, none that even Saruman the White can find. The only remedy for it is death. And we dare not flee - this can be spread."

"However," said Beornómien. "I do happen to know that most people have a strong immunity towards it. I doubt all of us will become lupine."

"Then the only thing that we can do is to wait until tonight," said Thorin. "We will set a watch, who will then alert us to signs of...danger. I elect our esteemable burglar, Master Baggins, to take especial notice to unexpected fangs, hair, and murderous intent during the night, and to take appropriate and immediate action forthwith."

"I'll lend you an axe," said Dori88 kindly.

"No need for such doom and gloom then," said Beornomien leaping to her feet. "How about dinner to cheer us all up?"

But the food only cheered Bomburlass up. The rest of them ate in silence.

"So," began Kathin. "Beornómien...you say you can change into a bear?"

Beornómien glared at her. "I didn't say that. Did anyone hear me say that? I never said that."

"Er," said Dwancing Spawn of Fundin. "Valier did say that..."

"I heard her with my own ears," said Glóanna. Voloin nodded his assent.

"I distinctly heard myself say the same thing," said Valier the Grey, as she stroked her fake grey beard.

"Not a bear," muttered Beornómien. "More...aquatic and avian."

Only Thorin, Valier and Durin appeared to know what those two words meant.

"So...you actually turn into..." said a puzzled Bofgrod.

"A large and fierce penguin," growled Beornómen. "So don't mess with me!"

Runi, Dori88 and Orilin snickered very quietly.

Durin stood up majestically, if a bit stiffly.

"My dear friends," he orated. "We will have a very troubling time of it until we find out if any of us have been infected. I counsel a good night's sleep, for even if we dwarves are the hardiest in all of middle-earth, even we need rest."

The others saw the wisdom of this, and dropped off nearly where they were. But Valier, before she went to sleep, spoke to Meneltarbo.

"Good night, my dear hobbit, and be careful! Wake Bifur Felagund at midnight to take his watch, and wake me first if anything happens, and do not do anything foolish!"

Meneltarbo sat cold and uncomortably, thinking of his dear little hobbit hole. How he wished he was curled up in his own featherbed, nibbling on seed-cakes and half a turkey, while his teakettle was just singing. Not for the last time!

And slowly, slowly he dropped off to sleep...

---------------------------------------

It is now NIGHT one. Wolves may PM, twins may not.
I do not need a name from the Seer or the Protector at this time. The Hunter may PM me a name any time they wish, up until voting is closed at the end of the Day.
The first DAY will begin in 24 hours.

Oddwen

01-08-2007, 09:35 AM

It was Beornómien who woke them all the next morning with her fierce roaring.

"My animals!!" she cried. "My poor, poor animals!"

Their bodies were strewn about all over the garden, and fence, and sides of the building, and the beehives.

Poor Meneltarbo felt very bad indeed - the animals were really delightful things, and he was sorry they were dead.

All of Thorin's company were grumbling, and he noticed that they were glaring at him.

"Burglar!" roared Beornó. "Burglar! More like a Werewolf than a Burglar!"

"Now now now," said Valier. "We can't go accusing without proof..."

The rest of the company snorted with laughter.

The wizard scowled and waggled her fake grey beard in anger at being interrupted.

"Furthermore," she continued. "There are tracks of three Wolves around. It is highly unlikely that a very small hobbit could go around making three seperate tracks - therefore I think we have some work to do to weed these Wolves out."

The rest of the strange company glared suspiciously at each other. What was the world coming to, when a dwarf couldn't trust his own brother? Or sister?

Durin spoke. "I fear that some of you will not live beyond today. Many songs will be sung of this...provided, of course, that we are successful in weeding these Wolves out."

All eyes sprung with tears. For which of them, after all, didn't have dear family or friends in the crowd?

Thorin stood straight and tall, and said in a great voice -

"WE...SHALL...NOT...FALL!"

--------------------------------

DAY one has now begun. Wolves, stop PMing, Twins may start.
I'll need a name from the Hunter before the final votes are in.

Boromir88

01-08-2007, 10:07 AM

Dori88 pulled out a piece of paper from his pockets. He addressed the company 'The one thing, I'm sure you're all wondering right now is...are you on the list?'

Rune Son of Bjarne

01-08-2007, 10:32 AM

Actually I wasn't. . .

Surely you would not consider you friends for wolves? Obviously a dwarf would not have done this! That leaves the burglar, the fake wizard and the big guy. . .

Just look how they are already trying to take the lead of this group, when surely it should be Durin and Thorin making the decitions.

Anguirel

01-08-2007, 11:07 AM

Pretty taciturn lot, aren't ye? Pshah. Lurking and holding your peace does not make you wise, my good Dwarves.

I have forgotten whether the Twins amongst you are out for yourselves or working with us. If you be traitors 'gainst your lord and your company - which I seem to recall you are - remember that the wolves are a greater threat to you than we are, for the knowledge is in their hands.

Hrrrm. I have much planning to do, and also intend to check the laws that govern us in this house.

When I have come to a decision, I will order you, as my vassals, to lynch whoever I wish. I am confident you will obey me, loyal kinsmen.

The King Under The Mountain will come into his own.

Kath

01-08-2007, 11:25 AM

From what I've heard the Twins are traitors, looking to their own survival only. My ancestors have perished due to their treachery in times not so long ago.

I do feel bad for the death of those animals though. Perhaps I should have been on lookout last night rather than little Meneltarbo, though he has slipped by me before so maybe it wouldn't have done us any good.

I have little to say right now, as there is just so little to make use of yet.

dancing spawn of ungoliant

01-08-2007, 11:41 AM

How about you who were keeping watch, didn't you see the beasts? What kind of a watchkeeping is that - unless you were running around the yard slaughtering our host's animals yourself.

Well, three wolf trails equal three pairs of muddy feet, no? Pull off your shoes and socks! At least Meneltarbo's feet look quite muddy. And furry...

I have forgotten whether the Twins amongst you are out for yourselves or working with us.With grief I note that your memory does not serve you as well as some 100 years ago, O Thorin.

I was planning to make them both [twins] goodies
I haven't seen another comment about that, so I assume that they're not as evil as Kath suggests, but a bit like Shirriffs in the Shire.

Kitanna

01-08-2007, 12:05 PM

Durelin

01-08-2007, 12:13 PM

Anyone got any porter?

Voloin, brother? Let's away to find some...

Boromir88

01-08-2007, 12:24 PM

Runi, that be good then...you don't want to end up on my wolf list. Yes, I repeat it's MY wolf list.

Anguirel

01-08-2007, 12:36 PM

Dwalin m'lady, you are as enlightening as ever. Does this mean, though, that these Twins have not infiltrated the Wolves? I am still somewhat bemused.

I hired the burglar, my company, and I intend to answer any attacks on him that I consider to be unjust. He may be incompetent, but we cannot immediately declare him fiendish.

Nogrod

01-08-2007, 12:50 PM

I would agree with Runi. No dwarf could ever do this. Not ever.

The big one, what was it Valier the Grey said, Beornómien, a shape changer? Looks a clear case to me then. And our master thief Meneltarbo here? He spent time in the goblin mountain by himself! Who knows what he did there? Or what was done to him?

Lord Thorin Anguirelshield, I believe Dwalin, Dwancing Spawn of Fundin is right here as it is quite clearly said that the twins are good.

Let's see our options next...

Farael

01-08-2007, 12:52 PM

The King Under The Mountain will come into his own.
Yada yada yada... no King under the mountain or over it will be ordering THIS Durin around. Read my name... Durin the deathless.... you know? that fine fellow whom you owe your allegiance to. And for that matter, all of you do, other than the old wizard, the hobbit and the big guy.

How convenient, three of them, non of them dwarves, and three werewolves. I SAY DOWN WITH THEM!!! I know no dwarf would ever do something like this.

Anguirel

01-08-2007, 12:57 PM

Durin the Deathless...that fine fellow whom you owe your allegiance to

My lord Durin, I'm sorry to break it to you but you are most certainly dead. I am the only King around here.

Hmmm. Who is our enemy again? The Necromancer. What do Necromancers do? Summon up and manipulate the dead.

I smell a rat, or rather a corpse.

Nogrod

01-08-2007, 01:02 PM

How convenient, three of them, non of them dwarves, and three werewolves.And just because of that, maybe a little too convenient? That would be a maddening joke indeed, but as all of this looks like a mad-joke anyway, I wouldn't put it past this Necromancer to make it just like that.

I do not think that we should first run at the non-dwarwes just because of their non-dwarvesness, but if one of them turns out a wolf I might wish to try another one just to make sure...

Eomer of the Rohirrim

01-08-2007, 01:07 PM

I think Dori, Nori and Ori are the wolves. What Countess of Chance could resist placing the curse on the rhyming three. Certainly not I, Kili, and I'm not even a Countess! That can mean only that she was even more likely to give in to that delicious temptation — if my reasoning is valid, which it is not.

But where did logic ever get us before? We set out on a quest with 13 Dwarves. That's not logic; that's suicide!

Hence: Boromir, Rune and Durelin are the wolves. I, Kili, deem it so.

Boromir88

01-08-2007, 01:07 PM

Durelin

01-08-2007, 01:25 PM

Well, if we're using logic here, I say, if Bomburlass doesn't get it tonight, she must be one of the dark creatures. She's got the most meat on her, thus a wolf could not resist.

And Dori, Nori, and I are not the only ones who rhyme, thank you. Fili, Kili, and Bali...Bili...yeah...

Nogrod

01-08-2007, 01:39 PM

I kind of like this: a game opening this early. Good!

Three nice moves (Runi, myself and Lord Durin), trying to clear the view from the dwarves to non-dwarves in the very beginning. Very nice indeed. But also very much in a tone of in-character (or in-story). Easy to begin with and as such not so serious. Still a good place for a wolf to hide within, or then not. Too much in the open, I think.

Then a nice move by Dori88, making us note it and to give an air of clearheaded and quick-witted innocentness to him. That too is quite light, but a bit more serious.

Then I suggest we look also Dori88, still a light one, but a step more serious again.

With this start I would be keen to look at those not able to take off the in-story stuff early enough. I think you know my ways... :)

Volo

01-08-2007, 02:26 PM

Voin Good ("I steal from the rich (dragons) and give to the poor (dwarves)."), or Voloin here, at last. I was picking flowers, I'll give a flower to each of you and leave myself one. Each of us can give a flower to the scariest of us and the one who gets most flowers shall be looked at closer. Wouldn't that be a good idea?

I still think that it is a mistake you, Meneltarbo, didn't take your niece, Friko, with us. Although I can't know it yet, as Friko isn't even born, but she's a good lass.

Oh, so sad... But enough of sadness. Little advice can I give, but Bofgrod says true, or so I fear, Dorimor or as you call him, Dori88 has a scary air around him. I fear his words.

Of our non-brothers, I'd be the first to call for the lynching of Beornomien. I've seen her rage on the battlefield, she was a demon possessed I say. And can't control herself when she transforms into a bear. But I've seen the wrath, she was even impervious to weapons! There is something evil about that man-bear berserker. Beornomien...'is that your....
...
ID-ent-TI-TY!?'

Is he trying to give somebody a sign here, why would he say something that way. I have seen him giving, rather misleading, but clues anyway, in a strange manner.

Or is just a joke, I think not...

...I think it's time to sleep.

Farael

01-08-2007, 02:32 PM

I perhaps am getting old and grumpy, but I think we are all playing too carefully. So I'll be the first one to say

KILL NILP!!! he will thank you for it anyway.

and now I must go to er.... not-die. (I.e: I've got class in real life, be back later on tonight)

Holbytlass

01-08-2007, 02:35 PM

Well, if we're using logic here, I say, if Bomburlass doesn't get it tonight, she must be one of the dark creatures. She's got the most meat on her, thus a wolf could not resist.
Sooo, Durelori, you say this so when I do get it tonight you can claim that someone was setting you up :p.
While I do agree that I would be a most tender meal, I disagree that I was one of these fiends. I like my sleep too much.

But as to who would do such nasty things in the house of our most esteemed host I haven't a clue.

dancing spawn of ungoliant

01-08-2007, 02:39 PM

Quite much accusing and defending concerning Mr. Baggins here, and yet he hasn't even dared to utter a word after the grisly waking. While waiting for other people to speak their mind, I might as well say a few things.

I wonder, what makes Dori88 advertisese his wolf list so much, and if he was soundly asleep as he was supposed to, when did he have the time to write the list in the first place? Well, you say it is wolvish to accuse our non-dwarvish companions, but you agree that Beornómien seems evil. Indeed, I've heard that wolves can turn against one another to fool the innocents, but if that's the case, we might find out when the conversation gets more lively.

As for Voloin's comment about "ID-ent-TI-TY", well, I thought Dori was implying that our host could transform into an Ent, but then again, I'm not exactly sure how that would prove that she's guilty.

'Nomen est omen', some say, but since no one's name here is simply Mr. Wolf or Ms. Lycan, I think I need more evidence for myself in this matter than Eomi here.

I have to say, though, that Orilin seems to spend more time with the porter than pondering this problem...

Some seriousness is indeed in order as the day keeps growing older. I need to go braiding my beard now, but I'll see you in ten. Hours, that is.

Boromir88

01-08-2007, 02:53 PM

Hmmm...I think dwarves here are trying to overthink themselves into trouble. Aye, that's what I say.

There's nothing coded at all, just two awful attempts of seeing how creative I can be. There is a common theme of puns/parodies for pure enjoyment and creativity I'm doing in my posts. If no one can see it, there's nothing I can do. Which means no Miss Spawn, I wasn't saying Beornomien can morph into an ent. :rolleyes: It was a bad attempt of a play off a person's infamous lines. I was considering doing a 'Deal or No Deal' gag, but that's too obvious and not creative enough.

Before I depart for a brief while, just some general comments here...Lord Durin is innocent and Miss Spawn is innocent. Congratulations, you two are not the weakest link. Good bye.

Anguirel

01-08-2007, 03:13 PM

Dori88 was rather flatteringly servile earlier. I would be suspicious, but then, after all, I do deserve it, being the King Under The Mountain and all.

As things stand I will probably vote for Durin the Dead because his claims of overlordship and his rotting stench irk me. However, I of course have plenty of time to make up my mind.

Dori's unilateral declarations of innocence may be another mysterious gameshow joke or may be a throwback to the style of the phantoms of old. Either way, I don't like them much, I'm afraid.

I also noticed Bomburlass was quite quick to get back to Durelori about an apparently light hearted joke...maybe I should vote for her, striking down the unclean like a hammer on an anvil...

Anguirel

01-08-2007, 03:14 PM

Oh, and, goodnight, loyal subjects...

Kitanna

01-08-2007, 03:23 PM

Surely you would not consider you friends for wolves? Obviously a dwarf would not have done this! That leaves the burglar, the fake wizard and the big guy. . .~Runi

I would agree with Runi. No dwarf could ever do this. Not ever.~Bofrod

How convenient, three of them, non of them dwarves, and three werewolves. I SAY DOWN WITH THEM!!! I know no dwarf would ever do something like this.~Lord Durin

Ai! Three dwarves insisting no dwarf could ever do such a thing and we look at all the 'non-dwarves.' It may be overwhelming pride but smells like at least 1 wolf behavior to me. Aye, it does.

I believe Bori88 makes a valid point with this. Of course chances of all three being are fanged fiends is near impossible, however perhaps one hides among those.

At the moment I rule out Runi. He was the first to say it and I take that as the usual first post in-character jest. Looking at the other two I come up with little to say on innocence or guilt. But perhaps one enemy hides among them.

I think Dori, Nori and Ori are the wolves. What Countess of Chance could resist placing the curse on the rhyming three. Certainly not I, Kili, and I'm not even a Countess! That can mean only that she was even more likely to give in to that delicious temptation — if my reasoning is valid, which it is not.
Interesting, but there are also four sets of rhyming names.
Balin
Dwalin
Gloin
Oin
Dori
Nori
Ori
Fili
Kili
So if the Countess of Chance wanted to play that game with us then she could have picked one name from each rhyming group (excluding one) and thus putting yourself in the same catergory as you placed Ori, Dori, and Nori.

Dori's unilateral declarations of innocence may be another mysterious gameshow joke or may be a throwback to the style of the phantoms of old. Either way, I don't like them much, I'm afraid.
He's a clever one and make no mistake. I am a bit of worried over his declaration of the innocents, but the fact he used "you are not the weakest link" throws me off. As you said Anguriel Oakenshield, it could just be another gameshow throwback. Bori88 is crafty when evil, yet extremely helpful when innocent.

Valier

01-08-2007, 03:31 PM

Oh what a mess...I seem to be a little under the weather (RL) and may not be able to participate as much as I would like today. I will be on frequently to read, but don't expect much from this here old Wizard today.

Nogrod

01-08-2007, 03:33 PM

I'm pulling off for some beard-trimming too.

But just a couple of things before it as I seem to be somewhat bad in this in-character game anyhow.

From what has passed this far - and it's early, no question about it - I would say that I would be highly reluctant to help with the lynching of Nori88, Dwalin Dwancing Spawn of Fundin, Durin the Deathless or Voloin as they have actually been playing the game with some openness. And looking at the latest, I should include our lord Thorin Anguirelshield to my list as he seemed to start making points.

Others taking part so far have been very careful indeed and that raises my suspicions, always.

Runi only has made a shielding of the dwarves in-character -style.

Glóanna said we should look for Meneltarbo the burglar in-character style.

Kathin made an erroneous (?) statement about the twins and said she had nothing to say.

Orilin has called for Voloin for a drink and thrown jokes about Bomburlass...

Eomi has pointed to there being no logic and thence given a random list of suspects.

Bomburlass has been quick to defend and telling us she has no clue.

All these I find highly more suspicious than the aforementioned five. But there are also five of us who have not yet opened their mouths, so I'll leave any further judgements to later on...

EDIT: X-d with Kitanna and Valier...

Meneltarmacil

01-08-2007, 03:38 PM

Oh, dear me! This adventure has been one disaster after another. First Trolls, then Stone-Giants, then Goblins, Gollum, and Wargs, and now werewolves?

Why did I ever let Valier push me out of my door like that? I just wish I were back in my cozy Hobbit-hole having afternoon tea, rather than dodging wolves and suspicious Dwarves...

Dori88 does strike me as somewhat odd lately, what with this mysterious "Wolf List" of his and declaring people innocent at random. Plus, he did drop me on my head back in the tunnels, and I'm not too happy about that...

Eomer of the Rohirrim

01-08-2007, 03:44 PM

I've no idea who's accusing who. You're all making up names and it is confusing me. I am going to vote for one of the people who, for some inexplicable reason, called me, Kili, Eomi. :p

Eomer of the Rohirrim

01-08-2007, 03:47 PM

++DANCING SPAWN OF UNGOLIANT

Previously, to me at least, known as Dwalin. Let us see what comes of it.

Nogrod

01-08-2007, 03:51 PM

Just a quick note in referral to Glóanna...

What the wolves would like to do? To jump on any even remotely believable sounding suspicion in the very early on and back it (like she did with the three dwarves stating in-character in the beginning, following Bori88). My forefathers have used that tactics pretty succesfully many times. Or trying to crerate a feeling of random (like she did with going for the rhyme-stuff).

I'm not saying I'm suspecting Glóanna a lot, but surely she has managed to raise my eyebrows with her latest. Even if I hold the overall theory quite plausible. The thing is in the way she seemed so happy to cling into it and even use about the exact words Bori88 used... that sounds a bit suspicious.

I am going to vote for one of the people who, for some inexplicable reason, called me, Kili, Eomi.You should vote for Oddwen, then... ;)

EDIT: X'd with Eomer

Nogrod

01-08-2007, 04:10 PM

Dori88 = Bori88 = Nori88 = Sorry88. :D

Durelin

01-08-2007, 04:31 PM

Nofur seems in a hurry to start killing people. But I guess it's kill or be killed.

Hah, I didn't even know Kathin had posted...but that's pretty standard for her. Which is always worrisome.

In an obvious attempt to be mildly helpful, I shall list who we have not heard from yet, in plain old Username Runes:

Nilp
Naria

Aha, two silent N-Wolves... Obviously Nogrod is the third.

Nogrod, from what I know, always gets away with being Nogrod...I say we lynch him for being Nogrod, or for getting away with being Nogrod.

Durelin

01-08-2007, 04:33 PM

Add Lommy to that list.

Naturally I forgot her because she was at the top of the players' list.

Kitanna

01-08-2007, 05:10 PM

I'm going to have to vote soon and there is not much for me to go on right now. No one has said anything to truly make me suspect them, the only one to come close is Dori88 and even that doesn't have me overly suspicious of him.
I have about half an hour and then well, I can't really say how I'll vote.

Boromir88

01-08-2007, 05:16 PM

**Any name with () is for the help of clearing all the confusion Eomi (Eomer) is having with names.**

I'm sorry Anguirelshield (Anguirel), sir, for being too jovial for your hard-nosed personality.

I see some people are having trouble with what I'm doing here, so let me explain...wait there's not enough time, so let me sum up.

On Day 1 I go by measuring tone and genuinity, and do a process of elimination. It is strictly on a post by post basis (meaning people change throughout the day therefor my thoughts about them may also change). Oh and Meneltarbo Baggins (Meneltarmacil) nothing I do is random. I always have a reason, just because I don't say a reason don't mean I don't got one. I like to keep the workings of my own mind to myself as much as possible. Of course to get anything constructive done we all must share and discuss our feelings...but on Day 1 I don't like to give a lot of info out as to what I'm thinking as that makes it all too easy for the wolves to use and manipulate me down the road. As far as my process of elimination business...if someone seems innocent to me, I mark them off as not going to vote for them on that specific day. So far today, Durin the Deathless (Farael) and Dancing Spawn of Fundin (Spawn) seem genuine, so they're not going to get my vote...and that's all I'm going to say.

Also, Bofgrod (Nogrod) is going to most likely not get my vote today. I see that what he posted earlier today was an attempt to get information on people. And the way he's sounding it looks like he got the information he was looking for. If he be innocent it should greatly help us. If my feeling is correct there shouldn't be any reason for a wolf to come out and try to get information about people. They already know who's innocent and who's not, they don't need to come out and post things to try and figure out who people are. They come out and post to see where the village consensus lies.

Which leaves me to agree with him that Gloanna (Kitanna) looks especially suspicious for the very reasons he has said.

Also Voloin (Volo) worries me for his post saying I'm confusing and I'm giving out coded messages.

Edit: x-posted with Kitanna

Kitanna

01-08-2007, 05:44 PM

I hate having to vote so early, but this will be the only day I will do so.

So now here's the frustrating part for me. I hate random votes and I now whatever vote I cast now will most likely be seen as a "safe vote", but what I hate more than random voting is no vote at all. Sooo... I said before I have no real suspects or at least nothing serious. Anyone I've accussed thusfar is pretty much based on role. I'm uneasy of Dori88, but not enough to vote for him.

I found his post about being sure of Spawn and Farael's innocence unsettling, but with his latest post my mind is slightly (and I do mean slightly) eased when it comes to him. At least for now.

So to vote I am left with little choice aside from picking a number and finding the player who it belongs too.

++ Naria (Fili)

Meneltarmacil

01-08-2007, 06:30 PM

Boromir88, while I do understand why keeping things a secret from the wolves is a good thing, it also creates its own problems. For instance:
-There's no reason to trust what you're saying if no explanation is given.
-Making such a claim could be seen as a good way for a wolf to avoid giving an explanation if there's no good explanation to give.
-If the wolves kill you overnight, your secrets die with you.

I'm really not convinced you're a wolf. However, I do not entirely trust you either.

Also, Kitanna appears a little wolfish to me, with her jumping on Boromir88's suggestion that Rune, Nogrod, and Farael were wolves. B88's suggestion clearly appears to be a typical Day One joke, and doesn't really appear that suspicious to me regardless of whether he's a wolf. I'll most likely vote about an hour or so before the deadline so I can see if anything else develops later on.

Durelin

01-08-2007, 07:22 PM

Alrighty...unfortunately I must vote already.

So...going with all I got...

With the little amount of activity there's been, a Wolf has no reason to post much at all, and thus risk drawing attention to themselves. Now, while I find it unlikely that all three wolves would go with this, I think there might be two wolves among those who have barely been noticed and those who have not been around at all.

Possibly.

Maybe.

Both Rune and Kath have posted, but just once, and have drawn extremely little attention to themselves (not that anyone's drawn an extraordinary amount of attention). But they've still done enough (well, simply posted) to not get on the "has yet to post list" that some people tend to have their eyes on. For Kath, this is normal. So for now, I'm not going to even vote for her.

That leaves me with Runi.

++RUNE

Oh, and I know I've contributed...nothing. Sorry, feeling particularly lazy.

Meneltarmacil

01-08-2007, 07:53 PM

Yes, Durelin/Ori, it does seem unusually quiet around here. This is the perfect environment for a wolf. They can just relax here and forget about everyone else's troubles the way I would if I hadn't been forced out of my comfortable home on this adventure...

Silence is not going to help us much. While a loud wolf may be a more dangerous foe than a quiet one, the less experienced ones may slip up if forced to speak or may be revealed by their quietness. In any case, talking more should allow us to better see what the everyone is up to and hopefully force some of the wolves out of hiding.

Farael

01-08-2007, 09:44 PM

Silence is not going to help us much. While a loud wolf may be a more dangerous foe than a quiet one, the less experienced ones may slip up if forced to speak or may be revealed by their quietness. In any case, talking more should allow us to better see what the everyone is up to and hopefully force some of the wolves out of hiding.
You know, after my forefather (Aule? After all, he was a man of craft... perhaps he did shoes too!!) devised a crazy plan to keep the attention away from his cursed friends (namely, I was the cobbler and I started being loud about my plan to draw attention away from constructive discussion) I realized that there was some merit to my theory.

I'll propose it again now, but I promise not to push it beyond reason :p

Today is Day 1, we have very little to go on. Tomorrow we are not likely to have a whole lot more. On Day 3 we might have some voting record, but then we might not. Since right now the numbers are in our (the innocents) favour, why don't we rid ourselves of those that do not add to the discussion?

Unless we get a sudden breakthrough I strongly recommend that we lynch someone who was posted
1) Little, without much insight.
2) An larger amount of posts, and yet added nothing to the discussion.

These characters always become a liability by the end of the game since we all suspect them but we don't have enough evidence to lynch them, and we are reticent to lynch someone without enough "evidence". Right now we can afford a few bad lynches, and why not? After all, it is up to each of us to decide what "silent" means and also what a "breakthrough" or "evidence" might be, so it'll still leave a voting record.

Please note that, unlike my evil, cobbler former self, I'm not saying "lynch the quiet ones" but "lynch those that add nothing to the discussion". It so happens that most times they post little as well, for posting a lot of nonsense is bound to get them lynched.

I'd say it's up to each of you to decide whether this idea has merit or not, I will probably follow this theory and I hope my logic will earn me at least a few supporters (so that we can actually see whether it works or not) but I advise against discussing this at length since it'll take away from the actual discussion and wolf-hunting. Unlike last time, I do not want that to happen right now.

As for what has been said before, I can gleam nothing of importance other than some "gut" feelings about the players. Gut can be helpful (if you've played with me before you know that I tend to go by it a whole lot) but I see no point in discussing "this guy feels right, this guy does not".

What I will say, and perhaps I'm playing right into his hand since he has suspected me, is that Anguirel is a prime example of someone posting often but saying little. I think we've all have tried some measure of reasoning, but he has just kept on jesting for the most part.

Naria

01-08-2007, 10:42 PM

Aye, I do remember that Durin. T'was very good cobblering indeed, although I wouldn't go around raving about your moccasins...tacky to say the least:p

I somehow find myself agreeing with your plan this time. Why? I haven't quite figured that out yet. What I also haven't figured out is why you are asking us to believe you. I have a sneaking suspicion that you may be playing the other hand in this village. Force an opinion on the poor villagers in the last and quietly and calmly not force this opinion onto this village(oy, if that made any sense at all). Looking very helpful indeed, while at the same time asking to lynch the ones that aren't as much. I dunno It seems to me like you are doing pretty much the same thing as you did whence you made shoes, only this time it's cleaner and all nice and stuff. You may just be good trying to help, but I got bad vibes from your last post.

KILL NILP!!! he will thank you for it anyway.
Teehee...comical as this is, I think that we should at least let him poke his pretty face(for a dwarf) in and wait and see what our dear Bifur has to say :D

Naria

01-08-2007, 11:15 PM

The little dwarf walks back into the Great Lodge wringing her hands on her sparse beard. "Ehhm, hello?" An echo could be heard ricocheting off of the walls. Fili found a bench nearest to her and quietly sat down and waited to see if someone would answer.

Boromir88

01-08-2007, 11:44 PM

Oh boy, Kitanna's post is just screaming wolf into my mind. It just doesn't make sense here...either she's a confused innocent that doesn't know what to do, or she's made a fatal wolf error.

Post #40 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=504871&postcount=40) here is what I'm looking at...and I just think it screams out wolf. Let's look at some things here...
I hate random votes and I now whatever vote I cast now will most likely be seen as a "safe vote",
Ok fair enough...it could be an innocent genuinely worried about her vote, or it could be a wolf trying to cover her tracks and get an excuse for the next day.

Now after this 'random vote' talk, confuses me and gets me highly suspicious:
I'm uneasy of Dori88, but not enough to vote for him.

I found his post about being sure of Spawn and Farael's innocence unsettling, but with his latest post my mind is slightly (and I do mean slightly) eased when it comes to him. At least for now.
So after talking about her hatred for casting random votes she starts talking a bit of suspicion up about me. I make her uneasy, yet not enough to vote...and that my post naming Spawn and Farael innocent made her uneasy...now my last post before made her slightly feel better (and she stresses slightly). Now what's confusing about this is then she makes her totally random vote for Naria.

She agreed with me before about the 'non-dwarves.' Then seemingly I'm the only one that makes her suspicious? But even more suspicious is she doesn't follow up with a vote for me? She kind of shoves suspicion at me then makes it all better at the end by saying my last post 'slightly relieved her uneasiness' I'm going to be frank and say this, if you find someone suspicious/unsettling; vote for them! Because this here just screams wolf to me...and perhaps this will explain it better. See if an innocent found me to be the only suspicious one on Day 1, I would expect that person to vote for me...since there's nothing concrete to go off of. But Kitanna's post just doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you break it down.

At first she says she's frustrated because she hates having to make random votes.
Then she starts announcing some fairly strong accusations about me...she goes on to make points as to why I make her uneasy.
Then she absolves it all by saying my last post slightly eased the suspicion
And proceeds to cast a completely random vote.

Pretty much she said all in that same post...she has no 'real suspects' then she goes on to point suspicion at me! Then she backs away to cast a random vote. I believe, if Kitanna was innocent I would expect an innocent to go with whatever suspicion they have (as slight or insignificant as it may be...it's still better than randomness). Instead it seems like Kitanna attempted to make some crafty wolf move of telling us her vote was completely random; yet she did find me suspicious and points that out quite clearly.

dancing spawn of ungoliant

01-09-2007, 01:17 AM

I'm back, and I have to say that while catching up, I got pretty much the same impression of Glóanna (Kitanna) as Dori88 here.

Here's what made me uneasy about her.

#9 - 1st post. Quotes Spawn and says that we should take a look at Meneltarbo who hasn't even posted yet. That's all.

Sure, it's a joke, and at that point there was hardly anything concrete to talk about, but looks like a typical 'pumping up the post count' post. Besides, people who agree with me tend to creep me out.

#28 - 2nd post. Looks quite long with all the quotes, but basically she says that she agrees with Dori88 that one of Runi, Bofgrod and Durin could be a wolf, except Runi, and she can't say anything why Bofgrod or Durin would be wolves, either.

She takes Eomi's ( :p ) talk about names quite seriously, and says that he could be included in a rhyming group, too. Well, in my opinion the others simply do not rhyme as well as Dori-Nori-Ori, and Eomi's post seemed like a normal first post banter anyway, so I'm not sure what caused the need to comment this at length.

Notes that Dori88 is dangerous when he's evil, but an asset when being good. Seems to be feeling a bit uneasy about him.

#38 - 3rd post. Heads-up that she has to vote soon and says that she really doesn't know whom to vote for. Mentiones Dori88 by name, but says that no one has made her truly suspicious of them.

Either she's a scared ordo or then an insecure wolf. Why otherwise trying to prepare a soft landing for a first day vote?

#40 - voting post. Between this and her last post, Dori88 made a comment to say that Glóanna seems suspicious. I wonder if that's the reason why she went for the random mode. She reminds, though, that she's still uneasy about Dori88, but then again, slightly less than before.

But the most unsettling part is that she uses a lot of space for kind of apologising and excusing her vote. She hates to vote so early, but that won't happen again. She hates to vote randomly and talks about it looking like a 'safe vote', but more than that she hates leaving without voting.

So, she just happened to pick one of the silent players who hadn't even posted yet so that this vote wouldn't leave any kind of tracks at all to follow later on. Nice yet quite suspicious to me.

And now, back to taking a closer look at the rest of you.

Naria

01-09-2007, 02:04 AM

I have to vote now for the end Day is quite early for me. I have to agree with the points made against Kitanna, as well I did find her vote post to be disconcerting when I read it. I am currently the most suspicous of

++Kitanna

dancing spawn of ungoliant

01-09-2007, 02:51 AM

So, let's see what Orilin (Durelin) has been up to lately.

As I noted earlier, her first two posts don't have that much substance in them.

#10 - wants to go looking for porter with Voloin

#19 - jokes about Bomburlass, and after Eomi's 'Dori+Nori+Ori = Wolves' theory, defends herself by saying that names such as Bali and Bili rhyme, too.

She seems to be staying out of the conversation and pops in just to make an appearance and mildly (jokingly..?) defend herself.

#36 - says that Nofgrod seems to be in a hurry to kill people. I guess this refers to his post where he explained some of his thoughts about our fellow companions since he hadn't at least voted yet. Before this comment, Nofgrod had just listed Orilin as a suspect.

Says that Kathin is acting normally which is worrysome, and in order to appear mildly helpful, she gives an incomplete list of people who hadn't posted yet and says that they (Nari and Bifur Felagund) are the wolves along with Nofgrod. After that she goes on about Nofgrod being himself and getting away with it (..?) and suggests that we lynch him.

It seems all very playful, but there's this hint of self-defence that I'm not so fond of.

#37 - adds Beornómien to the 'hasn't posted yet' list.

#42 - voting post. Some apologising there, but her tone is already more serious. She says that possibly and maybe:

"With the little amount of activity there's been, a Wolf has no reason to post much at all, and thus risk drawing attention to themselves. Now, while I find it unlikely that all three wolves would go with this, I think there might be two wolves among those who have barely been noticed and those who have not been around at all." ~Durelin

I think this description goes for Orilin herself pretty well. Her previous posts don't have all that much in them, but I don't know it their quantity is supposed to exclude herself from this group that she decribed above.

Says that Runi and Kathin have posted very little, but for Kathin that's normal, so she votes for Runi.

So, I guess she didn't want Nofgrod dead after all. I have to agree, though, that both Runi and Kathin have said remarkably few words thus far.

Thinlómien

01-09-2007, 03:41 AM

Look what you have done, stupid dwarves! Brought evil to my house and slain my dear animals. I swear I shall not take any more dwarves into my house ever.

Rhyming names, you say? Have you then forgotten about Bifur, Bofur and Bombur? Shouldn't you be after Bifur Felagund, Bofgrod and Bomburlass? :rolleyes:

Next we might hear that the twins are evidently either Bifur and Bofur, Oin and Gloin or Balin and Dwalin. :rolleyes:

The big one, what was it Valier the Grey said, Beornómien, a shape changer? Looks a clear case to me then.What? If I already change to penguin I think that's skin-changing enough! :p

I smell something here:
I would agree with Runi. No dwarf could ever do this. Not ever.

How convenient, three of them, non of them dwarves, and three werewolves.
And just because of that, maybe a little too convenient? That would be a maddening joke indeed, but as all of this looks like a mad-joke anyway, I wouldn't put it past this Necromancer to make it just like that.

I do not think that we should first run at the non-dwarwes just because of their non-dwarvesness, but if one of them turns out a wolf I might wish to try another one just to make sure...
Isn't this a bit contradictory? I mean, first he says now dwarf could do this and then he says that it is not very probable that all baddies are non-dwarves. Of course this is mostly in-character flip-flopping and thus not to be taken too seriously. Anyway, if someone says first that no dwarf is a werewolf, then that "dwarf" does not mean innocent and then returns to his earlier theory of three non-dwarf wolves in the same sentence, it makes me raise eyebrows, even if/as it is mostly in-character.

And can't control herself when she transforms into a bear. But I've seen the wrath, she was even impervious to weapons! There is something evil about that man-bear berserker. Beornomien...'is that your....Penguin, not bear.

I agree that Glóanna looks quite bad with her "I hate random votes" combined with her random vote and her avid agreement with Dori88 combined with her suspicion of him.

I won't probably be voting Dwancing spawn, Eomi, Meneltarbo or Voloin today, as they all seem innocentish. I'm a bit reluctant to vote Bofgrod, Dori88 or Durael either as they've all contributed to the discussion.

I'm back to reread thorugh the thread. Don't eat all my honey while I'm away! As the bees are slaughtered, there won't be more honey in ages.

Rune Son of Bjarne

01-09-2007, 05:20 AM

So Dori88 thinks it is likely that a wolf would join the "no dwarf could have done this" course. . .normally I would say that it was not so, but this is day 1 and I am afraid that it could be the best case made.

That leads me to Lord Durin. . .although I tecnicaly owe him my aligance, it seems a bit weird that he should return from the dead only for trouble to follow in his wake. Plus the whole thing about saying that someone will thank you for lynching them really annoys me.

and our good old Nogrod. . .first of all he mistook me and Dori88 and I am greatly insulted by that! But what strikes me as odd is him agreeing with me. . .no seriously. . .it almost never happens and so I get suspiciouse.

Kath

01-09-2007, 05:23 AM

Wow, only two pages to read though, I'm impressed!

Alright, so, it seems the main suspect at the moment is Gloanna. The points made over her seemingly over-reluctance to vote are that the post was too apologetic and that there was some backtracking within it. The former of these catches my attention more as a random vote is far less suspicious if just made rather than agonised over - but then if you're innocent you may not be worrying so much about that. It seems unlikely though, in a place where you know everyone else is on the lookout for villains you have to be aware of how your own actions look.

The backtracking I don't think is so worrisome. To me it reads more like someone trying to find a way not to cast a purely random vote but discarding the idea even as they think of it. Yes, Dori88, it does make sense to vote for those you feel suspicious of even if it is just a niggling suspicion, but if that suspicion is of someone high profile where a vote could actually lead to others following suit, if the suspicion is not strong enough that you feel this person should be lynched then not voting also makes sense.

At the moment I am somewhat concerned that we haven't heard from Nilp, as he has usually popped in with a 'lynch me' campaign by now. I don't know what the timezones are like for him at the moment though and they may explain his silence.

The other surprise is Lommy. We should have had a wealth of posts from her by now, though the one she has made had good points in it and she is saying she'll be back.

As for those that have posted there are few that have stood out so far. One that has is Farael, who is surprisingly unconfrontational. He says he is going to advocate his plan again, which caused a lot of arguments in the past, but that he will do it less fervently this time. He also changed his view from 'lynch the silent ones' to 'lynch those that aren't contributing'. Now this is a far better view to me, but the fact that he is saying it is worrying. Farael doesn't do things by halves, yet from the start of the game he has seemed calm and willing to compromise. This may be because he is, in fact, innocent and so is playing differently. Or he is evil and has simply learnt from previous mistakes.

Another who has stood out is Dori88, who seems to be the loudmouth of this place, but I have a natural aversion to those who seem to be taking charge so I am not going to put any stock in my suspicion of him toDay.

The last person to stand out is Meneltarbo because he hasn't been around much, but those comments he has made have been either insightful and helpful or obvious statements. The disparity is odd, and I hope to see more from him later so I can try to make sense of it.

For now though I have to vote as this will be the last time I am near a computer before the deadline.

++FARAEL

I don't wish to vote for those who have not arrived or have not spoken much, and of the three I pointed out he is my strongest suspect. I am suspicious of Kitanna as well but not to the same extent. Her actions could be those of an innocent and I am inclined to give her the doubt for now.

dancing spawn of ungoliant

01-09-2007, 05:38 AM

I just realised that both Glóanna and Orilin have already voted, so I assume they won't come back toDay to comment the suspicions of them. Pity.

As to the voting method of Mr. Deathless (of which we're not supposed to blabber excessively, I remember that), I basically agree with it

"I'm not saying "lynch the quiet ones" but "lynch those that add nothing to the discussion"" ~Farael

but that's because those who contribute little often do seem suspicious. However, some wolves tend to be all over the place, I've heard, making up theories and everything seemingly useful. So, if I really am suspicious of someone, I rather vote for him/her whether they seem helpful or not.

But what's with the subtle propaganda here? :p

"...the numbers are in our (the innocents)..."
"Please note that, unlike my evil, cobbler former self..."
"it'll take away from the actual discussion and wolf-hunting. Unlike last time, I do not want that to happen right now" ~Farael

In his other two posts, Durin seems quite murderous ("I SAY DOWN WITH THEM!!!" "KILL NILP!!!"), but old people are always so grumpy. Not enough stuff yet to tip the scale either way whether he's innocent or not.

And as for the comment about Sir Anguirelshield talking too lightly, it might be worth noting that he retired for a nap after less than six hours since the sunrise when hardly anything serious had been said. However, there is something about Thorin that makes me a bit wary. I'll get back to it when I manage to nail down what it actually is.

edit: Cross-posted... Kath, check the admin thread for Lommy and Nilp's silence. :)

Rune Son of Bjarne

01-09-2007, 05:50 AM

It is funny how everybody agrees on Gloanna making wolfish errors. I have to admit that I did not notice them at first, but I suppose I did not read through it ver closely:o.

I can sertainly understand the points being made against her, but I doubt that I will vote for her today.

I would like to add that Meneltarmacil is the only one that seems inoccent to me. . .if you know what I mean. Hes post are down to earth and has some good points with out being spectacular. I guess it is an easy way to play, but it seems genuine to me.

Another person that I did not speak of before is Eomi, I really feel uneasy about him. . .I don't have a theory as such, but there is just something about him. The way he makes a silly theory and a few random comments and then vanishes and everybody fail to take heed of anything he says other than his confusion over names. Of course it is not his fault how we react to what he say, but he is making me uneasy. Let me say it like this: If he is a wolf he has had a close to perfect day1.

Anyway I think I shall vote soon and that it will be for either:
Eomi
Nogrod
or
Durin

Holbytlass

01-09-2007, 06:16 AM

Since right now the numbers are in our (the innocents) favour, why don't we rid ourselves of those that do not add to the discussion?

Unless we get a sudden breakthrough I strongly recommend that we lynch someone who was posted
1) Little, without much insight.
2) An larger amount of posts, and yet added nothing to the discussion.
Fool me once
shame on you.
Fool me twice
shame on me.
I shall go out on a limb and say that I still agree with the reasoning behind this plan but it's the execution of the plan that is worrisome. How would it be orchestrated? Who would we trust to orchestrate it? There is the guidelines but how many lynch suspects in a day-too few and it's easy for a wolf to follow suit, too many and it's easy for a wolf to hide. I know that Farael seems to want to do it early on but I say to wait a few DAYS and see who starts garnering suspicions of not really being here. Any way, that's all I have to say about the plan.

I've glossed through quickly to catch up but will have to go back and check things out more thoroughly.

Nogrod

01-09-2007, 06:20 AM

I made to this to get myself on the track again and thought it would be useful to share it before I start rethinking the things done and said toDay.

And it seems we are really spreading the vote here...

Eomer --> Spawn
Kitanna --> Naria
Durelin --> Rune
Naria --> Kitanna
Kath --> Farael

Claimed reasons for voting:
Eomer: confused with the storyline names and thence voting for someone who called him, Kili, Eomi.
Kitanna: totally random (picking a number).
Durelin: for posting only once and not drawing attention to him (same as Kath, but with her that's normal)
Naria: agreeing with the suspicions of others.
Kath: for being surprisingly unconfrontational (also slightly suspicious of Kitanna).

Anguirel

01-09-2007, 06:21 AM

I'm somewhat ashamed to say that I am here, but pre-occupied and feeling a bit left out. If I feel I have not taken the skeins of suspicion properly on board, I will probably vote for Durin for trivial reasons as I intimated before.

It is unusual, and perhaps a sign of all our grizzled Werewolf experience, for Gloanna to be highlighted as a suspect this early; as a wolf she usually evades trouble. I wonder if that's a sign we are operating on a mistaken basis?

Our host hasn't yet talked much, but I'm sure that'll change soon enough...

Rune Son of Bjarne

01-09-2007, 06:34 AM

I will have to go with Farael. . .

His plan, that I actually do have some sympathy for lacs some detail to make thing clear for me. It seems that he would like us to vote for people who plays in a certain way all the time, but that would be like telling the wolves where to hide. . .This could only work if the wolves naturaly messed up when having to speak up, but we have several tales of that not happening.

I think it is a good thing to vote by those merrits once in a while, but to make it an official plan, that we by the way is not allowed to talk about, seems silly.

and to be honest, I do think that by his own standarts Durin qualifies as a lynch candidate. . .voicing the same theory as his forfathers did (and not really anything else) Is not really contributing with anything new. . it is just Durin being Durin.

Another thing is that I do not want to spread the votes too much more and as it seems that Thorin will be voting Durelin. . .

now for the silly reasons:
1. His comment about Nilp annoyed me. . . . mostly because I took it as semi-seriouse.
2. He claims to have developed a sertain cobbler theory, but from what I have read it seems pretty much like the one TORE used.

++FARAEL

Anguirel

01-09-2007, 06:37 AM

Okay. Now that really doubles the stakes. I am now unlikely to vote for Durin the dead unless I actually come to think that he's a wolf.

Hmmm.

Nogrod

01-09-2007, 06:43 AM

Some remarks on the posting that has taken (or not taken) place while I've been away.

I can't see how Runi can sort out Meneltarbo as the only one standing out as an innocent. A Runi-wolf would probably not be that bold to speak of his fellow in crime, but what is it then? Puzzles me.

I'm a bit diappointed with Beornómien as she seems not to be her usual and bright self but seems to be bent on picking up only straws and backing already voiced concerns. Now it's always a problem for the werecreatures that they have to artificially build up their cases as they know what they claim is not true. That many times gives their points an air of superficiality, which I'm smelling in her first post in some degree, and making them prone to follow up with leads given by others. But I'm still hoping to see her making it better when she returns.

Bifur Felagund hasn't posted but the internet-connections seem to be the reason. Valier has posted once and claimed for RL-bussinesses. I think they should not be voted toDay for that.

Orilin and Eomi have seemingly left the house for toDay and not left a lot to be said of them. That I find a bit worrysome.

I'll try to have some closer looks / think a bit about the larger picture here.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

01-09-2007, 06:49 AM

It has always seemed to me, Kili, that the value in Day One discussion is discerned after the event. We look back on what has been said in the days to come, as Farael the Deathless points out. All behaviour on Day One can be construed as Wolf behaviour. In all probability, we will only catch a wolf by chance.

That's why this overanalysing and eagerness to find reasoning, at this stage, is quite remarkable.

Nogrod

01-09-2007, 07:03 AM

All behaviour on Day One can be construed as Wolf behaviour. In all probability, we will only catch a wolf by chance.

That's why this overanalysing and eagerness to find reasoning, at this stage, is quite remarkable.You're quite right. I'd say quite right. All behaviour can be constructed as Wolf behaviour, on all Days - not only on Day1. But that doesn't mean that we only get wolves by chance - even on Day1. I've seen a wolf picked on Day1 with perfectly sound reasoning a couple of times.

So I would not say "in all probability" but with some probability we'll get the wolf by chance. But why not try to increase our probabilities and aid our luck by trying to look for some actual points? I say it's in our interests to do so - and without it there is much less to be read from Day1 later in the game.

And the eagerness to find reasoning in this stage of the game is remarkable. Yes it is. And I think it a good thing...

Farael

01-09-2007, 07:43 AM

Learned from my mistakes? Kath my dear, I won that game and survived to the end (Thanks Nogrod) there was no mistake.

As to how to decide who is silent and who is not, that's the beauty of it... it shouldn't be orchestrated, it should be up to each of us to decide. That way, we force wolves to make a choice and stand by it, which leaves a voting record.

Anyway, I have only a few minutes and so I must go... I shall be back in about two hours.

Thinlómien

01-09-2007, 07:53 AM

One thing in Kath's behaviour rings my alarms. . . . though the one [post] she [Lommy] has made had good points in it . . . Really. That sounds very much like a wolfish "I-say-something-good-of-someone-just-for-the-sake-of-saying-good-of-somebody" -comment, since if you take a closer look at my post, what "good points" I can possibly have there? Those were the few first things crossing my mind after reading the thread. The post consist of crying over dead animals, ridiculing rhyme-patterns, making some jokes/corrections about bears and penguins, making one point (though not even a very incrimintaing one) against Nogrod, agreeing about Kitanna seeming suspicious without adding anything new about her, naming a few innocentish people and forbidding people to steal honey. What on earth are the "good points" over there, I wonder.

Nogrod

01-09-2007, 07:56 AM

I thought of looking closer at Eomi's / Kili's posting and well, it turned out interesting.

#62
It has always seemed to me, Kili, that the value in Day One discussion is discerned after the event. We look back on what has been said in the days to come, as Farael the Deathless points out.Really? I took a liberty to include all he has said in this game before this last post of his concerning the worth of trying to be rational on Day1.

#17
I think Dori, Nori and Ori are the wolves. What Countess of Chance could resist placing the curse on the rhyming three. Certainly not I, Kili, and I'm not even a Countess! That can mean only that she was even more likely to give in to that delicious temptation — if my reasoning is valid, which it is not.

But where did logic ever get us before? We set out on a quest with 13 Dwarves. That's not logic; that's suicide!

Hence: Boromir, Rune and Durelin are the wolves. I, Kili, deem it so.

#32
I've no idea who's accusing who. You're all making up names and it is confusing me. I am going to vote for one of the people who, for some inexplicable reason, called me, Kili, Eomi.

#33
++DANCING SPAWN OF UNGOLIANT

Previously, to me at least, known as Dwalin. Let us see what comes of it.So what value is there for us to look back on the Days to come with this posting? Eomi seems to be full aware that things said on Day1 will be looked afterwards and at the same time he seems to take good care of not leaving anything there behind for anyone to take hold of.

So if someone is playing carefully, here we have one. Even the vote could be said to be a safe / random one. And funny he should give his vote as the first of the whole Day as he had time to come back to the game now later...

Fishy, I say.

Nogrod

01-09-2007, 07:58 AM

One thing in Kath's behaviour rings my alarms. Really. That sounds very much like a wolfish "I-say-something-good-of-someone-just-for-the-sake-of-saying-good-of-somebody" -comment, since if you take a closer look at my post, what "good points" I can possibly have there? ... What on earth are the "good points" over there, I wonder.I totally agree with you Lommy! A good point, this time! :D

Anguirel

01-09-2007, 08:08 AM

Hmmm. I like the psychological family dynamics going on here...

Runi was actually mistaken in thinking I was on the verge of voting for Orilin, but the option is becoming more tempting now...

And she voted for Runi on specious grounds. Was Runi actually consciously acting against her indirectly?

Bomburlass also suspected Orilin early on. Spawn of Fundin suspects her, but not so adamantly as she does Gloanna.

On the whole I think wolves will be unlikely to be backing each other's suspicions up at this stage. I don't think I would were I a wolf, anyway.

Tricky as ever.

Boromir88

01-09-2007, 08:10 AM

I can never ever figure out Eomi...I've just stopped trying. It's useless, he's really the only character I can't get a hold of...this eventually just leads me wanting to lynch him by Day 4 if he's still around.

I say it's in our interests to do so - and without it there is much less to be read from Day1 later in the game.
I completely agree...As I'm sure you're aware of Bofgrod, I have a knack for once finding out the truth about one wolf, getting one of their partners almost immediately...and that is all because of the the way people have interacted on Day 1. I find Day 1 to be quite useful, especially if we do nab a wolf.

Well for today....

Spawn, Darael the Deathless, Bofgrod, and Beornomien all feel innocent to me. Beornomien's attacks on Kath make her look more innocent, especially since there's been suspicion growing around Gloanna...and she could have easily tagged along.

If Gloanna be lynched, I'll be after Lord Anguirelshield and Kath tomorrow.

Everyone else I'm not really sure about. I remember Volo desiring to talk more when he's a wolf...but can't get a feel for him.

Oh and Kath, of course I'm a loudmouth...what would you expect from me?

Edit: x-posted with Ang

dancing spawn of ungoliant

01-09-2007, 08:14 AM

After rereading everything, I'm not sure what my stance is toward Glóanna because she's been like a textbook case about how wolves used to act, but I can't help thinking that at this point, a wolf should know better than to repeat all the ordinarily wolvish maneuvers.

I figured out, though, what was bugging me with Thorin, and perhaps even more with Eomi. Well, to some extend with Kathin, too. It's the odd phenomenon when people whom I know to be really smart seem to be dumbing down themselves. For example, I don't believe for one second that checking the admin thread for missing information or figuring out the twisted names would have been an impossible task for anyone here, but such behaviour makes it easier for wolves to approach other people and get into discussion.

I do realise, though, that I've spent way too much time on this toDay, and I've voiced suspicions of some sort of pretty much everyone now. I'll come back to vote when I feel less paranoid.

edit: Cross-posted with everyone since #66.

Meneltarmacil

01-09-2007, 08:22 AM

Well, I'm going to have to vote shortly, and at this point will vote

++Kath

from what was said earlier.

Boromir88

01-09-2007, 08:26 AM

To make a note of this; before I completely forget:
It is unusual, and perhaps a sign of all our grizzled Werewolf experience, for Gloanna to be highlighted as a suspect this early; as a wolf she usually evades trouble. I wonder if that's a sign we are operating on a mistaken basis?~Lord Anguirelshield
This reminds me all too much of the time when Valier and my ancestors were wolves working together.

When my grand-daddy was gathering some suspicion Valier made a brilliant move of trying to get suspicion away from me by saying...'I've noticed Boro likes to insult people when he's a wolf. I haven't seen him insulting anyone so far.' This was a brilliant move to get suspicion away from me, and as it would turn out the wolves did destroy the village.

This comment Lord Anguirelshield makes about Gloanna reminds me all too much of that.

Nogrod

01-09-2007, 08:26 AM

As long as our Seer is alive and well, I wouldn’t like to see Dori88 lynched as he can really make a difference when he’s a goodie. The same I would like to say of Spawn of Fundin. Her abilities in analysing are a powerful weapon if used for good. Beornómien also seems to be gearing up and that looks good. Also I would like to have Thorin Anguirelshild with us. His reluctance to vote for Durin after he gained a second vote speaks innocence to me. A wolf might say that, but I doubt a wolf would be so quick to run for that kind of bluff.

I have suspected Glóanna and still do somewhat. Beornómien's point about Kathin was well pointed and raised my suspicions on her a lot. Funny also, that Kathin indeed tried to smootlhy downplay Glóanna's guilt (saying she's suspecting her, but still bringing forwards the possibility of her being just an innocent villager - with some good points indeed). Now Kathin woulde be a wolf with lots of experience and capability to do many tricks and still stay cool. And at that time there clearly was something like a real pressure growing over Glóanna...

It might be a pair of wolves? But at least another one of them I'm inclined to believe is one.

Then I'm pretty unsettled with Orilin and Eomi. Both have been extremely careful. A bit too careful to my taste. I have made a few notes about Eomi just earlier and will take a look at Orilin soon to see if I can add anything of value that has not been said already.

With others I'm quite at loss with...

Holbytlass

01-09-2007, 08:31 AM

It seems that Kitanna(Gloin) is acting highly suspicious but what are the odds that she be afflicted twice in a row? But that would be delving into the inner workings of The Necromancer and her ways. Would she be totally random in which GloKit would have a 1/17 chance of being a wolf just like the rest of us or would she tweak the roles for evil amusemsent? We can't know now.

Dancing Spawn(Dwalin) seems a bit too agreeable. Agrees with Boromir(Dori) about Kitanna's(Gloin)suspicios behavior. Agrees with Durelin(Ori) about Rune(Nori) and Kath(Balin) saying remarkably few words. Agrees with Farael(Durin) about his "lynch that add nothing" idea.

She seems to be coming across as agreeable in a befriending sort of way.

++Dancing Spawn (Dwalin)

Volo

01-09-2007, 08:39 AM

This is a hard place, I can't find anybody worth enough to get a vote. Luckily there is still time to think.

I actually find Duriel (Farael/Durin) innocentish. I feel that he is confused or then it's just that he hasn't fooled me with that one before.
But on the other hand, he hasn't contributed that much himself either (Oh, who's talking...) and he's logic is contradictory, encouraging random votes.

We shall see...

Meneltarmacil Baggins seems pretty innocent, he has said a few earnest-sounding things.

Dancing Dwalin has contributed well, either she's a loud wolf or indeed of help, I'll just follow her for now.

But Bomburlass, she seems a bit too quiet... She's taking a bit too long to come with her checking. For now, I'll think that she's busy (Aren't we all?).

Thoringuriel... I can't understand this one. He's been around a lot, but nearly all of his talk is in character chatting.

Eomi, like Dorimor88 said, nothing can be found to say about Eomi. I suggest you stop you in characterism for a while and say something. If you ask me, he has contributed close to nothing but seems to be awake.

Orilin, just like Eomi.

More later... From those I find Eomi and Orilin the ones that deserve a vote. But Thoringuriel and Bomburlass also seem to have a potential of being suspected by me.

An other thing I want to ask. What use is there from the Protector? He dies himself, if he protects somebody, that doesn't feel too useful, unless there is a Seer to protect.

EDIT: x:d with Holbytlass

Anguirel

01-09-2007, 08:44 AM

I'm now most tempted to vote for Dori88, partly, naturally, because he's starting to show signs of wanting to lynch me, but mostly because of this statement:

If Gloanna be lynched, I'll be after Lord Anguirelshield and Kath tomorrow.

It's typically untrustworthy as it's reasoning based on jumping a death ahead, which always raises my hackles.

Partly because "If Gloanna be lynched" is such an unhelpful first step; really two outcomes in one, namely Gloanna being a wolf and her being innocent.

Partly because it looks like someone with a long game-plan, and the calculation of a wolf.

Partly because it allows him to commit himself to a course of action because of a fairly unrelated event.

Yes, it's troublesome. I've decided, not for the first time-

++DORI88

Thinlómien

01-09-2007, 08:44 AM

Bofgrod, you have good points about Eomi. He seems indeed a bit fishy, now that you've pointed it out.

I don't know what to think of Glóanna. She surely is suspicious. But. According to my experience, as a wolf she is quite careful and skilled, and is not easily caught (like Anguirelshield pointed out). Why would she act this "foolishly" this time then? But even as an innocent it wouldn't make sense to be that jumpy and contradictory... :confused: I also very much agree with dwancing spawn, who said: she's been like a textbook case about how wolves used to act

Meneltarbo's vote was a bit odd. It was too sudden. He had not suspected Kathin before. Then he just based his vote on dwancing spawn's and my points about her, without even bothering to specify which "from what was said earlier" made him vote her. I think he was just going with the majority; many people have suspected Kathin, at least slightly, recently. That really makes me uneasy. Yet I wonder would a wolf be this careless after all...

edit: xed with Volo and Ang

Anguirel

01-09-2007, 08:48 AM

Oh, and Dwancing Spawn of Fundin, you're right. I'm not on top form today. I'm doing several things at the same time; plotting to defeat dragons, fighting Werewolves, writing a biography of my grandfather Thror, composing a new single, working title Dreaming of Erebor...

Nogrod

01-09-2007, 08:53 AM

About Orilin.

Nothing more to add but these: #36
Hah, I didn't even know Kathin had posted...but that's pretty standard for her. Which is always worrisome.
#42
Both Rune and Kath have posted, but just once, and have drawn extremely little attention to themselves (not that anyone's drawn an extraordinary amount of attention). But they've still done enough (well, simply posted) to not get on the "has yet to post list" that some people tend to have their eyes on. For Kath, this is normal. So for now, I'm not going to even vote for her.I'm not sure how to read this. Does this read to her favour or the contrary? She speaks of Kathin and somewhat suspects her but clearly underlines that her little-talking is normal and thence not reason to actually go after her... Hmm. This really could bite both ways.

Meneltarbo's vote was a bit odd. It was too sudden. He had not suspected Kathin before. Then he just based his vote on dwancing spawn's and my points about her, without even bothering to specify which "from what was said earlier" made him vote her.Nari made quite exactly the same thing earlier on... going for then favourite Glóanna. So trying to make it the easy way or trying to hide in a supposed majority?

Boromir88

01-09-2007, 08:54 AM

Would she be totally random in which GloKit would have a 1/17 chance of being a wolf just like the rest of us or would she tweak the roles for evil amusemsent? We can't know now.~Bomburlass
Well if all villages are completely random, then the outcome of the prior villages have no bearing on the outcome of the current one. Just ask Rosencrantz and Guildenstern and their flipping of the coin. If a coin lands heads 7 times in a row what are the chances that the 8th flip would be a heads? Still 50/50, as the coin doesn't think jee I landed heads 7 times in a row, better do tails now.

Seems to be rather a safe vote for Lord Anguirelshield to make...I'll make a mental note of that as well.

Well see Beornomien, my logic always goes as follow if I think it:
Looks like a wolf
acts like a wolf
smells like a wolf
chances are it's a wolf.
We're always too busy now thinking about double-bluffs and a wolf wouldn't be so obvious, some of the greatest wolves are the most obvious ones! I'm reminded of Alcarillo's amazing performance in a game. Where throughout the entire game everyone was saying Alcarillo was a wolf, but he just looks too obvious and because we kept convincing ourselves he looked to obvious to be a wolf, he won it for the wolves.

On Day 1, I go by who looks like a wolf...don't give me all this other stuff about double-bluffing and 'too obvious to be a wolf.' Meaning, I don't by Anguirelshield's argument and if Gloanna looks obviously like a wolf, on Day 1 I'm going to go with that...

++Kitanna

Edit: x-posted with post 78 and 79

Volo

01-09-2007, 08:58 AM

Thoringuriel, I don't like your vote... Dorimor is contributing and isn't suspicious enough to be lynched on day1, he does feel too mysterious... More on him later.
I don't like your vote...

Gloanna is too aggressive without being aggressive, she is added to the list, of many, I guess.

Another name I feel evil is Filia, she hasn't said anything interesting, except that she doesn't trust Duriel. Her vote for Gloanna came straight after Dancing Dwalin's post about Gloanna. As if they're a team... And by looking at Filia's post times, she seems to have had enough time to contribute more.

EDIT: X:d with Nogrod and Boromir88

Thinlómien

01-09-2007, 08:59 AM

Nari made quite exactly the same thing earlier on... going for then favourite Glóanna. That is quite weird, I mean, I did notice that, but it didn't really make me raise eyebrows. When Menel did the same, I was instantly finding something wrong with it. Maybe Naria is just such a charming personality... :rolleyes: :D

I have to vote soon, and I'm not yet sure who I will vote. Most probably Glóanna or Kathin, unless rereading gives me some new, splendid idea or a I notice something remarkable.

edit: xed with Volo

Nogrod

01-09-2007, 09:01 AM

Okay. I think it's about time for an upgrade...

Eomer --> Spawn
Kitanna --> Naria
Durelin --> Rune
Naria --> Kitanna
Kath --> Farael
Rune --> Farael (Spawn1, Naria1, Rune1, Kitanna1, Farael2)
Menel -->Kath (Spawn1, Naria1, Rune1, Kitanna1, Farael2, Kath1)
Holby --> Spawn (Spawn2, Naria1, Rune1, Kitanna1, Farael2, Kath1)
Anguirel --> Boro (Spawn2, Naria1, Rune1, Kitanna1, Farael2, Kath1, Boro1)
Boro --> Kitanna (Spawn2, Naria1, Rune1, Kitanna2, Farael2, Kath1, Boro1)

That leaves Lommy, Valier, Spawn, Volo, Nilp, Farael and me to decide this.

Of these Nilp probably won't appear, possibly Valier neither. And if Farael had his timing right in his last post he will not make it in time...

So the Finns are going to decide this! :eek:

dancing spawn of ungoliant

01-09-2007, 09:07 AM

And here I thought that I had pretty much just insulted everyone today, but it's good to know that I still come across as befriending. :D

It seems that Kitanna(Gloin) is acting highly suspicious but what are the odds that she be afflicted twice in a row? But that would be delving into the inner workings of The Necromancer and her ways. Would she be totally random in which GloKit would have a 1/17 chance of being a wolf just like the rest of us or would she tweak the roles for evil amusemsent? We can't know now.Actually, a 3/17 chance. It seems that Bomburlass is disregarding Glóanna's "highly suspicious acting" just based on odds which makes me wonder. There's also the ever so useful 'we can't know' statement. Are you two in cahoots, eh?

Well, I'll decide my vote soon.

Thinlómien

01-09-2007, 09:08 AM

So the Finns are going to decide this! :eek:Maybe we should then hold a council in Finnish before voting? ;) I'd love to see the others trying to analyze it the next day.... :D

edit: xed with Spawn

Volo

01-09-2007, 09:10 AM

*cough*+Ukrainian*cough* :D

I actually don't like this going at Balth (Kathin). Her second post isn't that bad or I'm too blind to see the evil. The only thing that I note to be pointless, is about you, Beornomien. Voting Duriel is also a bit radical to me, but Balth did explain, that actually being her most valid point.

EDIT: X:d with Spawn and Lommy. (Good idea, let's finish this in Finnish)

Nogrod

01-09-2007, 09:10 AM

I might go for Kathin, Glóanna or Eomi. I have started getting some doubts on Glóanna's guilt even though I think Dori88 had a point in his post about voting the one that looks and acts like a wolf. And Eomi is hard as there is so little to take grip of (and maybe that's just the reason why he should be lynched?).

TIME-CHECK EDIT: showing 5 minutes too early in the thread compared to my PC...

Nogrod

01-09-2007, 09:15 AM

Ten minutes...

Anyone for Eomi or do we choose from Glóanna and Kathin? Other good last minute ideas?

dancing spawn of ungoliant

01-09-2007, 09:17 AM

Maybe we should then hold a council in Finnish before voting?Haha! Hyvä idea! :p

Well, I'm a bit wary of Eomi, but Glóanna and Kathin make me uneasy, too.

I'm a bit confused, what with my cell, computer and BD showing all different times, so I'll vote in a minute.

Volo

01-09-2007, 09:17 AM

Hmph, our wizard lady didn't make too much sense...

Oh what a mess...I seem to be a little under the weather (RL) and may not be able to participate as much as I would like today. I will be on frequently to read, but don't expect much from this here old Wizard today.

Why would she be frequent to read and not even vote, this might be a small matter on day1, but I don't like it...

Ah, I'll five the flower to ++Eomi...

Thinlómien

01-09-2007, 09:19 AM

Has Moddwen specified what happens if there's a tie? Is the first one to have reached the most votes killed? Or is Moddwen choosing it at random?

I don't like this throwing votes at all directions, though it doesn't matter so much this late anymore. In case the death is to be chosen randomly, I'd rather not have a host of people with two votes, especially not if the host includes such persons as spawn, who is very helpful and by no means (in my opinion) very suspicious.

Her second post isn't that bad or I'm too blind to see the evil.I agree with you. It isn't generally too bad, but that thing she says about me really worries me.

I'm quite at loss. Kathin and Glóanna don't seem as suspicious to me as they seemed before (though I still think they're both a bit suspicious), but I don't particularly suspect anyone else either.

Nogrod

01-09-2007, 09:21 AM

You ladies decide then...

++ Eomi

Making:
Glóanna 2
Eomi 2
Kathin1

PS. Beornómien: Let's not make this a tie on two...

Thinlómien

01-09-2007, 09:21 AM

Argh, I don't know what to do. I could vote any of the three: Eomi, Kathin or Gloanna.

dancing spawn of ungoliant

01-09-2007, 09:22 AM

You know what, anything's still possible, so to keep the options open (and because I suspect him, duh) I'll go with

++Eomi

Good Night.

Thinlómien

01-09-2007, 09:22 AM

Well, then: Glóanna has contributed more than Eomi.

++Eomi

edit: xed with spawn
Let's hope he's a wolf then!

Nogrod

01-09-2007, 09:23 AM

Go for someone to possibly gather more than two (Spawn and Durin have two also...).

EDIT: X'd with the votes...

Volo

01-09-2007, 09:24 AM

Well, I feel like you Finns can be trusted, do as you see right. I'd suggest Eomi or Gloanna, Balth just doesn't feel as confusing and might be of more help...

EDIT: X:d with three posts.

Anguirel

01-09-2007, 09:26 AM

I wonder what Voloin's trying to tell us with the flower motif. Just a mysterious running gag?

When is our official deadline, I wonder? No doubt I'll be castigated for not being on the ball again, oh dear...

How on earth did Dwalin get two votes? I agree with the skinchanger; baffling and worrying...

Oddwen

01-09-2007, 09:27 AM

VOTING IS CLOSED

death to follow shortly

Anguirel

01-09-2007, 09:27 AM

Missed the votes. Not the decision I'd've made. Kili is a sad loss to our communal wit.

Nogrod

01-09-2007, 09:28 AM

When is our official deadline, I wonder?I think it's four minutes over by now. At least it should be...

Oddwen

01-09-2007, 09:48 AM

The first day of their quarantine was awkward, as most first days are. Brother turned against brother, sister against sister, sister against brother, brother against sister, dwarf against hobbit, hobbit against dwarf, dwarf against wizard, wizard against hobbit, hobbit against wizard, wizard against dwarf, and the skinchanger accidentally accused herself in the confusion.

In the end, it was decided that a dwarf should die; Eomi, brother of Nari, kinsman of Thorin Anguirelshield.

"But I don't want to die," he protested.

"But you have to," the others told him. "It's The Rules."

"Sister, would you let me die?" he pleaded with Nari.

"Yes," she said. "I have to."

"Fear not kinsman," consoled Thorin. "I shall not let a son of my brother die by any lesser hand."

So saying, they knelt him onto a stump-seat for beheading.

Thorin lifted his gigantic magnificent axe, and with a cry of "Khazad ai menû!" let it fall against Eomi's hairy neck. His head, by some chance, did not roll or lay facedown, but stood upright blinking surprisedly and looking about it.

"Eww!" said some. "Cool!" said others. Some ran outside to be sick.

"If I had use of my arms," the head mouthed. "I'd flip you off." Then the eyes closed for the last time, and stood still.

Nothing happened.

Nothing happened again.

Nothing continued to happen.

"Well," said the dwarves furiously. "Now there's one less dwarf around!"

They buried Eomi under some very pretty looking striped rock that they found nearby, and his grave stood there for some ages, until the breaking of the world.

Living:

Beornomien
Valier the Grey
Meneltarbo Baggins
Thorin Angurielsheild
Kathin
dwancing spawn of fundin
Gloanna
Voloin
Dori88
Runi son of Bjarne
Orilin
Nari
Bifur Fegalund
Bofgrod
Bomburlass
Farael the Deathless

Dead:

Eomi of the Rohirrim (innocent), beheaded on DAY ONE.

-----------------

DAY one is now ended, NIGHT two has begun.
Wolves may PM, Twins please to stop.
I please need names from the Seer, Wolves, Hunter, and Protector.

Oddwen

01-10-2007, 08:50 AM

They awoke next morning early and looked around fearfully. What had the Wolves been up to in the night?

They discovered their answer in the beheaded body of dwancing spawn of fundin. Nari screamed and threw herself upon the body.

"No no no!" she cried. "No! O dwancing, my sister!"

"But," they all muttered. "Shouldn't she be mourning her brother, Eomi?"

But no, Nari kept cradling the headless body of dwancing, and sobbing. Suddenly, she stood up.

"Without my sister," she said. "What else is there?" She drew her axe out of her belt, and threw herself onto it. They all jumped too late to save her, and she smiled as she drew her last breath.

"Drat it all," muttered Valier the Grey. "Now we've lost our decidedly sherriff-like twins. We must do something about catching a wolf."

They buried dwancing and Nari under the same cairn, and started deliberating.

Living:
Beornomien
Valier the Grey
Meneltarbo Baggins
Thorin Angurielsheild
Kathin
Gloanna
Voloin
Dori88
Runi son of Bjarne
Orilin
Bifur Fegalund
Bofgrod
Bomburlass
Farael the Deathless

Dead:
Eomi of the Rohirrim (Innocent), beheaded on DAY one
dwancing spawn of fundin (Twin), beheaded on NIGHT two
Nari (Twin), died of sorrow on NIGHT two

-----------------------------

NIGHT under NIGHT is flown, and DAY two is open. Wolves please stop PMing.

Rune Son of Bjarne

01-10-2007, 09:30 AM

I see that I made a mistake, I thought Thorin said he would probably vote Durelin not Durin and therefor was convinced that the votes would be spread even more. Which they were, but for different reasons.

Nogrod is starting to puzzle me. . .He questions why I point out Menel as innocent and not anybody else. Is it not clear, Menel was the only one I could really relate to. Other people might say things that makes sense, but what Menel said was something that made sense and very like my own thoughts and way of reasoning.

Then there is the whole voting Eomi thing, seriously that was weird. Nogrod pays absolutely no attention to Eomi, until after I mention him and Eomi him self post again.

You're quite right. I'd say quite right. All behaviour can be constructed as Wolf behaviour, on all Days - not only on Day1. But that doesn't mean that we only get wolves by chance - even on Day1. I've seen a wolf picked on Day1 with perfectly sound reasoning a couple of times.
Somewhat true, but it is always easier to claim things wolfish on day 1. The following days there will be certain actions that can talk against one being a wolf. And I am sorry to say this, but I am a firm believer that in most cases it is chance when a wolf is caught. I have often heard tales of wolves being lynched for doing the exact same as an Innocent would have done.

Then I guess I am used to not relate to what Nogrod says at all and now it seem that he is suspecting the same people as me. . .I my self was uneasy about Eomi, but decided that I wanted to wait with lynching him.

Boromir88

01-10-2007, 09:53 AM

I was thinking the same Runi, the last minute voting and train for Eomi looks all too wolvish.

I came back and saw Eomi was the one lynched and had the same reaction as Anguirelshield...why? I was strong against Anguirelshield yesterday, as at first I was getting all caught up in the moment...I honestly wanted Gloanna lynched (and still do). Then I realized no matter what Anguirelshield always votes for me on Day 1...I have no idea why, but any village my ancestors have been in with Anguirelshield, they always get his vote on Day 1. No clue why.

Spawn, Voloin, and Beornomien seemed to be the followers of the Eomi wagon and Bofgrod the ring-leader. Of those 3 people still here, I wouldn't doubt it if one was a wolf. Voloin and Bofgrod look the most suspicious...something Voloin said just doesn't sit right with me:

Why would she be frequent to read and not even vote, this might be a small matter on day1, but I don't like it...
I do happen to agree that if Valier was around and could read what was going on she should have voted. If she wasn't around a lot, and if she couldn't read everything to come to at least a semi-informed decision than I think not-voting was the best. Total random voting doesn't sit right with me, and if Valier would have just popped in without reading the situation and voted, that wouldn't have sit right with me. However, Valier if you were around and were keeping up, you should have voted.

Anyway, this comment by Voloin doesn't sit right with me. He makes a comment that would appear to be helpful, one an innocent would make. But it just feels like he's trying to hard to be helpful, he's trying to hard to appear innocent, by pointing out things like that and claiming he 'doesn't like it.'

Bofgrod was the ring-leader of Eomi's lynching yesterday and that is no doubt what a wolf Bofgrod is capable of doing. I don't like the lynching of Eomi yesterday, and I think he who led it all is fanged! It's also clever that he votes to leave the decision up to Spawn and Beornomien. It's like he wanted to stay out of the last votes and be accused of being the one who got Eomi lynched. So he plays it safe, makes an awkward case against Eomi, ties it up, and makes Spawn and Beornomien come up with the decision...very crafty move if he be a wolf. To me, when innocent, Bofgrod has always wanted to take the initiative and wouldn't shy away from making tough decisions...here he plays it safe and makes Spawn and Beornomien do the tough decision making.

Beornomien seems more like a vote of an innocent. She had to reach a decision there as she was put in such a position. I'm inclined to believe of the remaining Eomi voters, Beornomien is innocent.

Holbytlass

01-10-2007, 11:02 AM

Eomer --> Spawn
Kitanna --> Naria
Durelin --> Rune
Naria --> Kitanna
Kath --> Farael
Rune --> Farael (Spawn1, Naria1, Rune1, Kitanna1, Farael2)
Menel -->Kath (Spawn1, Naria1, Rune1, Kitanna1, Farael2, Kath1)
Holby --> Spawn (Spawn2, Naria1, Rune1, Kitanna1, Farael2, Kath1)
Anguirel --> Boro (Spawn2, Naria1, Rune1, Kitanna1, Farael2, Kath1, Boro1)
Boro --> Kitanna (Spawn2, Naria1, Rune1, Kitanna2, Farael2, Kath1, Boro1)
Volo-->Eomi (Spawn2, Naria1, Rune1, Kitanna2, Farael2, Kath1, Boro1,Eomi1)
Nogrod-->Eomi(Spawn2, Naria1, Rune1, Kitanna2, Farael2, Kath1, Boro1,Eomi2)
Spawn-->Eomi(Spawn2, Naria1, Rune1, Kitanna2, Farael2, Kath1, Boro1,Eomi3)
Lommy-->Eomi(Spawn2, Naria1, Rune1, Kitanna2, Farael2, Kath1, Boro1,Eomi4)

No vote Nilp Valier

Beornomien seems more like a vote of an innocent. She had to reach a decision there as she was put in such a position. I'm inclined to believe of the remaining Eomi voters, Beornomien is innocent.
I don't quite agree with you there. She agrees with the points made by Nogrod about eomer(77) then states that says she'll vote for either Kitanna or Kath(82)then changes her position on them(91) cross posted with Spawn's voting.
It's understandable that Spawn was waiting till the last possible moment, she was part of the tye and would want to save herself. Lommy comes across as a bit flipfloppish maybe trying to stick around because a fellow wolf may hve also been part of that tye.

Valier

01-10-2007, 11:04 AM

Well Boro I was planning to be around reading yesterday, but good old nyquil kept me good and drugged. I am feeling slightly better today and I will have time to read, participate and vote. My no vote was perhaps for the best? I completely forgot about ww in my sickly state. :p

Volo

01-10-2007, 11:27 AM

Not a good start... I really felt that Eomi was the wolf, just look at his last post + Nogfur's post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=504931&postcount=66) here, there is a good point about Eomi's vote, which is suspicious... :(

That plus the death of our twins is depressing. I already miss Spawlin's analyzes. In the end she decided not to use her analyzes... At least something good in this is that now we know that the twins (and probably wolves) aren't chosen by rhyming names.

At such a loss, I find Duriel more suspicious, though his wolfishness would mean that the louder people are guilty.

Because of the above I feel that Balth is innocent, her post seems truthful.
Runi I won't vote either, he does contribute much more than in my earlier games with him. His suspicion of Eomi is a mistake, but I'm the last one who can blame for that, except for the fact that it was probably Runi who started seriously talking about Eomi being guilty, here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?p=504916#post504916). I wouldn't go as far as voting him, Duriel just is scarier.

On Runi's newest post:
Then there is the whole voting Eomi thing, seriously that was weird. Nogrod pays absolutely no attention to Eomi, until after I mention him and Eomi him self post again.
Yes, I find you making a good point mentioning Eomi. Actually I feel that I'm the only one who doesn't find Nogfur so suspicous... for once. Every time I find him suspicious he turns out good, so it might be better if I did suspect him, but I can't.
He does point out the reasons to vote people pretty clearly. And Dorimor, here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?p=504852#post504852) is the first post of suspicion towards Gitalóinna.

Dorimor, should I just stay quiet? Because I am trying to point out some things that have left unnoticed, unnoticed openly, you might have noticed them, but other's haven't. And it's natural to follow somebody who makes sense to you, I think there was enough reason to vote Eomi yesterday.

X:d with Holby and Valier

Holbytlass

01-10-2007, 11:48 AM

There's no clues about being a twin in DAncing spawn's posts that I see. So why her?
Dancing spawn susp of Kitanna(48) mildly susp of Durelin(50)bit wary of Anguriel (54)feels Eomer Anguriel and Kath are dumbing down-admits that she has "voiced suspicions of some sort of pretty much everyone now"(70) says maybe Kitanna and Holby in cahoots(84)votes Eomer(94)

got votes from Eomer and Holby

Boro says innocent (25)
nogord not vote(30)
lommy says wont vote(51)
volo will follw her for now(75)

She didn't find many highly suspicious and her vote choice is dead. most of the village found her innocent or at least not suspicious with a hand full stating it. She was a safe kill.

Kath

01-10-2007, 12:05 PM

Good to see someone focusing on why spawn was killed, Holby. I was about to ask why no one had yet.

Seems I have a couple of questions to answer from yesterDay so I'll do that first and then move on. Firstly Lommy, I did think you made some good points when I read your post and my opinion hasn't changed. You made fun of the idea that the baddies and Twins had been chosen because their names rhymed, which I'm pretty sure no one else had. That was a bit of Day 1 nonsense but it was still good to see that someone knew it was nonsense. The other thing I thought good was the comment you made about Nogrod and his flip-floppy behaviour. I didn't look at him yesterDay as it wasn't until I read your post that I saw the incongruity but others are now beginning to and so it was a worthwhile thing to say.

Damn must go for dinner, I'll be back a little later.

Volo

01-10-2007, 12:07 PM

On Thilórn.

First post (late, but Lommy doesn't have internet at home, so let's pass that): Nothing interesting, a few opinions on other players without "points".
Second post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?p=504930#post504930): Indeed, Balth had little reason to say that Thilórn made good points in her post, as she didn't. I can't deside what to think of this, since to me Balth's post (here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=504913&postcount=53) by the way) does seem to be reasonable, except for the Thilórn part. It doesn't feel like Balth tries to impress Thilórn with big cute blue eyes...

Third post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=504949&postcount=77):
I don't find anything strange agreeing with Bofgrod.
But the part about Gitalóinna is stranger, if Gitalóinna is a skilled player then a change of style might be a good way to cast off suspicion, true, this time it was a really bad idea if she's innocent.
The only really strange part about Milbo Meggins's vote is that he actually voted for Balth. But Thilórn doesn't go too hard on Milbo so nothing I can really say.

Fourth post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?p=504954#post504954): (Naria IS a charming personality.) This one is covered as Firlia commited suicide. The only thing that bothers me is Thilórn willing to vote Balth, isn't that contradictory?

Fifth post: A joke.

Sixth post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=504963&postcount=91): ...and still she votes Eomi... :rolleyes: Strange to me that Thilórn suspects Balth so strongly, as she has only her one weak point against her, unless Thilórn has seen visions...

Seventh post: Doesn't know who to vote. Not strange as many were (and still are) suspicious.

Eighth post: Votes Eomi as Gitalóinna has contributed more.

I don't know what to think about Thilórn, she has made that one point she so strongly kept to, until her vote. She has talked quite a lot. Not too aggressive. I don't know, she doesn't scream wolf, but neither is she too innocentish. More like a skilled wolf...

EDIT: X:d with Holbytlass and Kath

Volo

01-10-2007, 12:11 PM

There's no clues about being a twin in DAncing spawn's posts that I see.

Actually I found one. In her first
post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=504799&postcount=8)...

Volo

01-10-2007, 12:36 PM

...the other thing I thought good was the comment you made about Nogrod and his flip-floppy behaviour. I didn't look at him yesterDay as it wasn't until I read your post that I saw the incongruity but others are now beginning to and so it was a worthwhile thing to say.

Don't you, Balth, find this just as nonsensious as the rhyming talk. (This is about Nogfur talking about all the wolves being non-dwarf.) Nogfur didn't take it seriously, or if you think he did, then read his posts again... If I remember right, he did say that somebody of the "no-dwarf-can-be-a-wolf"-people is probably a wolf.

You're slipping again, Balth, Thilórn will probably try voting you also today...

If anybody has the time, I think another Spawlin research would be welcome. At the moment I don't have time, as it's rather late here.

Nogrod

01-10-2007, 01:11 PM

I was thinking the same Runi, the last minute voting and train for Eomi looks all too wolvish.
.....................
Bofgrod was the ring-leader of Eomi's lynching yesterday and that is no doubt what a wolf Bofgrod is capable of doing. I don't like the lynching of Eomi yesterday, and I think he who led it all is fanged! It's also clever that he votes to leave the decision up to Spawn and Beornomien. It's like he wanted to stay out of the last votes and be accused of being the one who got Eomi lynched. So he plays it safe, makes an awkward case against Eomi, ties it up, and makes Spawn and Beornomien come up with the decision...very crafty move if he be a wolf.So a ring-leader! That's nice of you.

But really, give me one decent reason why any wolf would have wished to kill Eomi instead of someone else? It's all nice rhetorics Nori88, but lacks any decent motivation behind those "clever votes" or "ring-leading" my wolf-ancestors might have been "capable" of doing.

Why on earth would a wolf care who gets lynched in the first place? If it's an innocent, whoever, that's good. If a wolf's mate is near lynch, a crafty wolf kills his mate and gets the bonus of being a good guy instead of trying to play brave fellow-helper and risk getting both of them killed.
To me, when innocent, Bofgrod has always wanted to take the initiative and wouldn't shy away from making tough decisions...here he plays it safe and makes Spawn and Beornomien do the tough decision making.Nori88 has got quite an interesting logic indeed. First he accuses me of being the ring-leader and then on the next sentence he says I didn't take the initiative. Now which way should we read this? :)

Just to tell you what happened. I had suspicions of three people late in the game yesterDay, reasons for which I've gave accounts then and won't repeat them here. When it started to look that there would be four people voting (half an hour before the deadline, about) the situation with those three was Glóanna2, Kathin1, Eomi0 - added with Spawn and Durin both in 2.

With four votes left it was anybody's game here. I shared the angst with Beornómien. I had no way of saying which one of the three looked most wolvish. I tried to ask whether anyone else thought Eomi suspicious (or should we choose from Glóanna and Kathin) to not "waste" my vote on someone who hadn't gather any votes yet. But as Volo voted Eomi, I thought it a good situation to make the voting-ground more even (resulting in Glóanna2, Eomi2, Kathin1). I voted three minutes before the deadline. Indeed thinking that it would be a relief not to be forced to make the very last decision everytime I'm around at deadline. And my relief was even greater when I noticed that both Beornómien and Spawn voted similarily as that meant that some others shared my worry about Eomi and we kind of lynched him together. Unfortunately we were all wrong with him...

Talking of voting safe now as we started... Nori88 voted about an half an hour before the deadline making the exact same thing I did, raising one person (Glóanna) even to the lead. Now should I interpret this as him being crafty and leaving the tough decision-making to others? I surely know wolf-Nori88 is perfectly capable of doping that! :D

I mean: which one of us was in a tougher position to vote and which one of us played it safe, not bearing the burden of tough decisions? Just asking...

Were I a wolf, I would have voted early enough, safely based on some of my earlier suspicions to look logical and just stayed away from discussion the last hour or a half.

Okay. Enough of this.

Holbytlass

01-10-2007, 01:12 PM

Actually I found one. In her first
post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=504799&postcount=8)...
I did see that but didn't take it as a clue because I was going to answer Anguriel's question since I had originally asked it on the admin thread, Dancing Spawn beat me to it.

Nogrod

01-10-2007, 01:15 PM

I surely know wolf-Nori88 is perfectly capable of doping that! :D
Maybe my best typo ever! :p

Holbytlass

01-10-2007, 01:33 PM

I mean: which one of us was in a tougher position to vote and which one of us played it safe, not bearing the burden of tough decisions? Just asking...

first voters
Eomer --> Spawn
Kitanna --> Naria
Durelin --> Rune
Naria --> Kitanna
Kath --> Farael
Menel -->Kath
Anguirel --> Boro
Volo-->Eomi

second voters
Rune --> Farael
Holby --> Spawn
Boro --> Kitanna
Nogrod-->Eomi

3rd and final vote for lynchee
Spawn-->Eomi
Lommy-->Eomi

No vote
Nilp
Valier

There is no one magic number of lynch candidates but spreading the vote so much makes almost every position a safe one. The position deemed most damning, the third vote, is done by a known innocent.

I don't see the ones that are actively trying to get someone lynched as a wolf but rather the ones that aren't so conspicuous trying to point the village in a direction and the ones jumping on board.

Boromir88

01-10-2007, 01:37 PM

Nori88 has got quite an interesting logic indeed. First he accuses me of being the ring-leader and then on the next sentence he says I didn't take the initiative. Now which way should we read this?~Bofgrod
Oh Bofgrod, you have greatly misconstrued my last post. Being the ring-leader and taking the intiative are two different things here.

When I called you the ring-leader I meant you were the main push behind Eomi's lynching.

When I said you failed to take the initiative, I meant you approached the end of yesterday more tentatively than I would have expected an innocent Bofgrod to do.

See an innocent Bofgrod likes to stay at the end of voting coordinate everything, make sure everyone who is around is all on the same page that way the end doesn't end up in some mass chaos that only benefits the wolves. You did a little bit of that, but it looked like you were too tentative than what I would expect (therefor you didn't take the initiative). You built up a case against Eomi, you did go through who was left and around to vote still, did a little polling to see what everyone who was around was thinking, but still proceeded to vote and as you say 'It's up to you ladies.' Therefor, you played the situation at the end tentatively, and I would expect if you were innocent for you to take more control and co-ordination to make sure no one messes things up. As that is what I am used to.

Talking of voting safe now as we started... Nori88 voted about an half an hour before the deadline making the exact same thing I did, raising one person (Glóanna) even to the lead. Now should I interpret this as him being crafty and leaving the tough decision-making to others?
Are you saying that because you truly believe it or are you just saying that as a weak attempt to get suspicion put on me as it just so happens to perfectly describe myself?

Oh, Bofgrod...what do you think about Beornomien?

Edit: x-posted with Holby

Nogrod

01-10-2007, 01:38 PM

Just a few ideas about Spawn getting killed during the Night and what might follow from it.

First of all, an excellent choice from the wolves. She can be devastating with her analysis later in the game and thence a good riddance for the baddies. With no clear trail left behind she's a perfect target indeed.

But why didn't they chose someone else? I suppose at least partly because they thought someone else, not her, was protected last Night. Some of my ancestors have been furry and in a game including a ranger that's always a big consideration. So there has to be at least one person who's innocent here the wolves thought more likely to be protected...

So as long as our Seer is alive, I will not be focusing on certain people. If innocent, we need them.

EDIT: X'd with Nori88

Boromir88

01-10-2007, 01:44 PM

Oh almost forgot, and Eomi was an easy target for a day 1 lynch. No offense to the chap, may he rest in peace...but even a chimp could convince people to lynch Eomi.

Kath

01-10-2007, 01:48 PM

This is what Nogrod said:

Post 13:
I would agree with Runi. No dwarf could ever do this. Not ever.

Post 16:
And just because of that, maybe a little too convenient? That would be a maddening joke indeed, but as all of this looks like a mad-joke anyway, I wouldn't put it past this Necromancer to make it just like that. (In answer to Farael repeating the point about three non-Dwarves being wolves.)

And this is not a flip-flop how? Yes, the first post was probably merely a joke, but he did continue with it and he did alter his view somewhat. In addition, Nogrod later in-directly agrees with Lommy that the points she made weren't good (post 67), which is technically a defense of himself just done in a way that doesn't make him look defensive.

Quite clever really, and wolvish looking too.

So what I'd like to know now Voloin, is why the defense from you?

Ah what else was I going to do? Right, why spawn? So let's see what she posted yesterDay.

Post 8: Mentions Meneltarbo being suspicious because of his muddy feet, but everyone else is mentioned along with just not by name. Kitanna then picks up on this and mentions suspicion of Menel as well which is a little odd but could be in character.

Post 24: Perhaps mentioning Menel was a ploy to get people talking, she seems to intimate that it was one here. Suggests that there is a wolvish link between Dori88 and Lommy because they were arguing. Possible but tenuous on Day 1. Some suspicion of Durelin as well for not being as involved as she could. Boro then defends what he said about Lommy, which could be seen as a reaction to this suspicion, especially since he also says he feels spawn is innocent which could a way of covering his back if he intended to kill her later. Not sure if that's entirely likely though as I think Boro would be a smarter wolf than that.

Post 48: Agrees with Boro that Gloanna looks suspicious for talking a lot without actually contributing anything and for making a safe vote.

Post 50: Looks at Durelin, and mentions that she's been rather over-defensive in very few posts as well as practically describing herself in a suggestion of how a wolf would act. Notes some flip-flopping as she was originally quite suspicious of Nogrod but then said she had to choose between Runi and Kath for her vote.

Post 54: Mentions that Gloanna and Durelin are unlikely to return and reply to the suspicions she brought up. Says she thinks Farael's plan of 'lynch those that don't contribute' is a good one but points out some not so subtle hints he made about being innocent. Mentions some suspicion of Ang too because he was sleeping in the middle of the Day.

Post 70: Wonders whether Gloanna can really be a wolf because her actions are so obvious. Says her unease over Ang, Eomer and Kath is due to them 'dumbing down' and thinks it may be a wolvish ploy to get people talking without having to say anything that might cause them to slip up.

Post 84: Wonders whether there is a connection between Holby and Gloanna because Holby pretty much passes off suspicion of Gloanna using statistics, which isn't really a surefire way of doing it.

Post 89: Says her vote will go to Eomer, Gloanna or Kath presumably for the 'dumbing down' and the points she made about Gloanna. But I wonder where the suspicion of Ang went?

Post 94: Votes Eomer to keep options open as well as due to suspicion.

Now there are obvious reasons for killing spawn. Her analyses are legendary and extremely helpful, so the wolves would be getting rid of someone who might well catch them out with logic and reason later, something that is far harder to argue against than a gut feeling which is what many players rely on. In addition she would be a very dangerous Seer, which is presumably who the wolves are attempting to kill at the moment.

From what I've just read over I can't find any other reason that she would have been killed. She made good comments, analysed a couple of people but didn't have any absolute suspicions and didn't say that anyone was entirely innocent. So she left few trails and therefore was a pretty safe kill for the wolves.

At this moment Nogrod is quite suspicious to me but I have little reasoning bar that mentioned earlier. I will go over his posts (argh so many!) in a bit and see if I can find something more than I have. As well as that I think Volo is quite suspicious because he is defending Nogrod, and even if Nogrod is completely innocent it is odd for one player to defend another, so I'll be looking at him as well.

Nogrod

01-10-2007, 01:53 PM

even a chimp could convince people to lynch Eomi.So getting him lynched takes a very clever wolf actually to make sure he dies? :rolleyes:

Meneltarmacil

01-10-2007, 03:10 PM

I find it likely that somebody in the voting list for Eomer was probably a wolf. And Nogrod does seem like the most likely candidate. He conrtibuted a lot to Eomi's lynching, but didn't vote until someone else (Volo) had already done so, so that it wouldn't look like he was starting the bandwagon.

Of course, if he's not a wolf, Lommy may be, as she jumped onto the Eomer bandwagon as well, and her vote wasn't very strategic, so she couldn't be accused of directly lynching Eomer.

As for Volo, I don't find him all that likely to be a wolf, as wolves generally don't cast the first vote in bandwagons, at least as far as I recall.

Durelin

01-10-2007, 03:42 PM

Ohh, and I so thought Spawn was a likely wolf candidate after that last minute Eomer-lynching fiasco. What on earth was that about? He didn't have a single vote, and then a group of you get together and start plotting? On Day One? That sounds a little too friendly for my tastes.

But though I really want to think there is at least one wolf among those who secured Eomer's fate, I kinda doubt there is. It was Day One...the voting was spread as usual...I don't see the wolves having anything to worry about. I think, though they likely would have waited as long as they could before voting, they'd go with a safer vote. This "last minute" collaboration just stands out too much....unless a wolf is trying to hide among sheep?

A wolf has to try and look like a sheep to hide among them, and being sheepish to me means a safe vote.

Where was the safest vote in all that?

Well, the first one. Vote, your done, and you can wash your hands of it, say you're clean.

The Wolf among the Sheep: Volo

And what's interesting to me, though I'm not going to put much worth in it, is this:

There's no clues about being a twin in DAncing spawn's posts that I see.
Actually I found one. In her first
post...

Her explanation of the Twins being good? That doesn't look like a hint to me, just more like an explanation. But could that be why the wolves picked her? Surely a second night kill isn't a major strategic point...might something this simple be the deciding factor?

So does Volo just think like a Wolf well, or does he have a secret?

I think Boro's right about Nogrod's behavior. I think he might well be innocent...for now.

Kitanna

01-10-2007, 03:49 PM

While it is distressing to have lost the twins I can see why Spawn was picked. It has been said over and over that on later days her posts can be devasting to the wolves. I wholeheartedly agree. I don't really think she was suspected of being a twin. Volo mentioned her first post as a possible clue, but I'm not sure it was meant to be as such.

Upsetting, but not all that surprising was Spawn's death. For now I'm more inclined to concentrate my efforts on those who voted Eomer (and should time permit those who voted Kath)

Volo mentioned Eomer in post 75 stating:
Eomi, like Dorimor88 said, nothing can be found to say about Eomi. I suggest you stop you in characterism for a while and say something. If you ask me, he has contributed close to nothing but seems to be awake.
In his post for 86 he defends Kath by saying he's not sure what is so wrong with her second post. His next post he votes for Eomer, not stating his reason there, but he stated it earlier. After he votes he continues to defend Kath. Seemingly stirring the vote toward Eomer and myself.

Ok I need to go for an hour or two, but I will pick up with Volo's posts from today and the other Eomer voters.

Nogrod

01-10-2007, 03:52 PM

Our little thief is either not listening to what others say or then he is knowingly trying to play down all points made to go for his wished conclusion... And who here has known targets except the wolves?

And if someone is flip-flopping in this game (if that can be made an argument), then just look at this: He [me] conrtibuted a lot to Eomi's lynching, but didn't vote until someone else (Volo) had already done so, so that it wouldn't look like he was starting the bandwagon. As for Volo, I don't find him all that likely to be a wolf, as wolves generally don't cast the first vote in bandwagons, at least as far as I recall.Now trying to make a mountain out of a molehill now are we? Trying to support suspicions that have no grounds just to fool others thinking there is something? If this is not wolfy-looking, I don't know what is... And possibly covering for your friend too?

I already asked Runi yesterDay how he could find this little hobbit an innocent above all others. I had my doubts of him then but not enough. Now I think I might look at him more closely.

And I agree with Kathin about Voloin's backing me up looking somewhat fishy too. At least when I'm tending to add that as a wolf my lorebooks tell me that he is quite toned down and as an innocent he leaps here, there and everywhere...

EDIT: X'd with Durelin & Kitanna

Kath

01-10-2007, 03:59 PM

Anguirel

01-10-2007, 04:01 PM

Everyone, I have suffered various communication woes. I'm sorry I haven't been that helpful so far, and hope to triumphantly re-engage after some sleep. I do have thoughts and will attempt to detail them at length on my return, including an explanation of my conduct vis a vis Dori88.

At first sight that Voloin case looks quite interesting, incidentally.

Meneltarmacil

01-10-2007, 04:13 PM

Durelin:
If Volo was a wolf and went after dancing spawn because he suspected her of being a Twin, I doubt he'd mention his thoughts that led to the killing unless he was trying to double-bluff.

Now if anyone thinks I'm trying to say Volo is completely innocent, that isn't the case. It is possible that he's a wolf; however, he is not at the top of my list.

Valier

01-10-2007, 04:21 PM

I agree with menel on this. I also looked at who mentioned the twins yesterday and noticed Spawn's first post. Volo mentioning it makes me think he is innocent at the moment. Also Menel for mentioning about Volo.
Boro seems fairly normal to me as of now and I will not vote for him.

People who have come to my mind as suspicious are Rune...he seems more helpful then normal, but we will see....Nogrod...I have been fooled before by a bad Nog and I am getting that feeling now. Farael also can be very sneaky.

Sorry but I haven't quite got a handle on everyone else yet so it's back to reading.

Nogrod

01-10-2007, 04:40 PM

Nogrod can I just ask why you think that is a flip-flop? Looking at it he's saying the same thing in a different way. He is using one point, the idea that a wolf won't vote first in a possible bandwagon, to point out guilt in you and innocence in Volo.

It seems that you either misunderstood or you're twisting words.Yes you can. I tried to turn and check that one over and over again a couple of times before I posted it and thought I had it right. Let's try to see the reasoning here then as I see it.

He (menel-hobbit) says that I'm a baddie as I wait for Voloin to vote as not to be seen as one who started the bandwaggon (= those who start are looked as the guilty ones). Then he says that Voloin started it and is innocent looking (= those who start are not looked as guilty ones). I see a contradiction here. And something very fishy begging the question as goes with cases that are made forcibly, not with a genuine way the innocents try to make them...

And also it should be seen that after one or two votes it's not a bandwaggon yet. It's easy to be "wise" afterwards. It was not a bandwaggon when Voloin voted or when I did as no one else than Beornómien and Spawn knew whom they were going to vote when our votes were cast. It became a bandwaggon only after both Voloin and myself had already voted...

Meneltarmacil

01-10-2007, 04:50 PM

Quite simply, it's not often that a wolf actually starts the bandwagon. They'll usually wait unti someone else has posted so as not to look suspicious. I suppose Volo could be double-bluffing there, but it'd be pretty dangerous to have double-bluffed twice at this point.

I'll be silent for a couple of hours or so starting now, by the way.

Durelin

01-10-2007, 05:17 PM

Durelin:
If Volo was a wolf and went after dancing spawn because he suspected her of being a Twin, I doubt he'd mention his thoughts that led to the killing unless he was trying to double-bluff.

Yep, that's why I'm not putting much worth in that. Still, it's a nice, simple double bluff, so it's always possible.

I agree with Valier about Rune's behavior, and Nogrod and Kath on Volo's behavior: they're being too practical for my tastes. Practicality will get us nowhere! Too bad we can't lynch them together.

Valier's behavior, though I perfectly understand time constraints, is also making me wary. The "I say this, I say this...but I gotta go" routine...it is likely true, but I must say, it comes across as an effort to seem distracted, which is a good, simple tactic to keep yourself looking innocent. A wolf has something to lose...an ordinary villager may not want to die, but, it's not the same. So appearing distracted rather than focused points toward innocence. Yes, yes, so my suspicion of her is all based on her "distracted-ness" seeming forced. Lynch her.

Question, Valier:

Also Menel for mentioning about Volo.

What do you mean, exactly? Sorry, I'm just slightly confused by that. You think Menel to be innocent because he pointed out that he thinks Volo to be more likely innocent than not?

Nogrod is seeming a little defensive...but right now I can believe that it is due to what Boro has pointed out: if Nogrod is innocent, he is quite into actively helping the village, and so more adverse to having his life threatened than some of us. And though the wolves are certainly adverse to it, they're much less likely to show it. Still, might as well lynch him, to be on the safe side.

Menel, I'm very confused by your logic. I don't like that. Lynch!

Ang is being shifty. But he's Ang. But he's shifty. Lynch him.

Boro is like Boro-lite these days. I hate "diet foods." Lynch.

Kath is Kath, but seems eager to find fault with Nogrod...he'd make a very dangerous wolf, though, so I can see why she would do that. She'd make an equally dangerous wolf, though. Lynch her.

Holby seems sensible, though for a bit there I forgot she was playing. But then it's only Day 2 after a pretty quiet Day 1, and I can't say I've fully memorized the list yet... Let's make it easier for me and lynch her.

I find it interesting how, though there were several people with the "oh, yeah, look at Kitanna all guilty over there" thing going on yesterDay, but I haven't heard a peep about her today. Funny thing about Day Ones, I suppose. She's nearly as shifty as Ang, though, which means I can't make any hasty judgments or assumptions about her. Curses. Can we lynch her anyway?

Farael's scaring me. I forgot he was playing, too. Lynch.

Lommy's vote makes her suspicious to me. But really, her vote is no more suspicious than Dancing Spawn's... I wish we could hear more from her, as she is very helpful when innocent, but I know that is difficult... And I also know she's very dangerous when evil. Lynch before it's too late?

Nilp wasn't here to vote for himself on Day 1. Let's help him out toDay. Lnycheth.

So...did I miss anyone?

Nogrod

01-10-2007, 05:34 PM

Quite simply, it's not often that a wolf actually starts the bandwagon. They'll usually wait unti someone else has posted so as not to look suspicious.First of all. Were I a wolf, I would have loved to start it to avoid any suspicions! Secondly. Please remember what I said: it was not a waggon before Beornómien and Spawn made it such. Voloin couldn't have known he was starting a bandwaggon, neither I that I would be adding to it as there were none at the time we voted. There was no bandwaggon before the last votes made it such.

And following this logic of part-time ignorance we should say that a wolf never wishes to cast a first vote to anyone (as it might be a start of a bandwaggon) which clearly is contrary to the evidence in WW...

Please people, stop being wise after the fact and even try to see it from the point of view of one who actually was there in the end. I didn't know the things you and I know now back then. And Spawn didn't know. And I believe Beornómien didn't. About Voloin I'm not so sure, but that's another matter.

Sorry. I'm getting a bit frustrated with this off-focus discussion.

If you wish, spend your whole Day speculating how I'm such a stupid villain who tries to get especially Eomi to be lynched for whatever reason and with whatever cost as far as not to play it safe instead wisely. Consider this.

If you, on the other hand think I was trying to protect Kathin or / and Glóanna, be my guests and lynch them. They're at the top of my list still (I'll make the rest of my points - as I think I have some new ones too - after I get some sleep).
Nogrod is seeming a little defensive...but right now I can believe that it is due to what Boro has pointed outIf it were just Nori88 :rolleyes: ... What else have people been talking about toDay? :(

Kitanna

01-10-2007, 05:49 PM

I am back to continue looking through Eomer's voters.

Volo started today with a cite of one of Nogrod's posts about Eomer. One that may have led Volo to vote Eomer yesterday, not sure. He also continues his defense of Kath. Then he says this:
His suspicion of Eomi is a mistake, but I'm the last one who can blame for that, except for the fact that it was probably Runi who started seriously talking about Eomi being guilty, here. I wouldn't go as far as voting him, Duriel just is scarier.
I'm not entirely sure how to take this. There's something in his wording that worries me. I can't quite put my finger on it yet...

Moving on, Nogrod was the next voter for Eomer. The first he really mentions any worry over Eomer is when he says: Orilin and Eomi have seemingly left the house for toDay and not left a lot to be said of them. That I find a bit worrysome. in post 61. His next post addresses Eomer's Day 1 behavior post. In Nogrod's post 66 he goes into detail about why Eomer is making him worried. This is the same post Volo used at the beginning of the today. He says he finds Eomer's posts fishy and wonders what Eomer is trying to accomplish. He looks at other possible folks he suspects, but he keeps on Eomer.
Then I'm pretty unsettled with Orilin and Eomi. Both have been extremely careful. A bit too careful to my taste. I have made a few notes about Eomi just earlier and will take a look at Orilin soon to see if I can add anything of value that has not been said already.
He waits until late to vote. That seems to be a normal thing for Nogrod though. His vote did tie Eomer with me.

Spawn voted next, but seeing as her innocence is proven I will move on to Lommy. She says that Nogrod is flip-floppy, but also says he is most likely just staying in character. In the same post she says she will probably not vote for Eomer (Spawn, Menel, Volo are included there as well as a reluctance toward Boromir, Nogrod, and Farael). Her next post points to Kath.
One thing in Kath's behaviour rings my alarms.

Originally Posted by Kath
. . . though the one [post] she [Lommy] has made had good points in it . . .
Really. That sounds very much like a wolfish "I-say-something-good-of-someone-just-for-the-sake-of-saying-good-of-somebody" -comment, since if you take a closer look at my post, what "good points" I can possibly have there? Those were the few first things crossing my mind after reading the thread. The post consist of crying over dead animals, ridiculing rhyme-patterns, making some jokes/corrections about bears and penguins, making one point (though not even a very incrimintaing one) against Nogrod, agreeing about Kitanna seeming suspicious without adding anything new about her, naming a few innocentish people and forbidding people to steal honey. What on earth are the "good points" over there, I wonder.
Next she says Nogrod has some good points about the fishiness of Eomer. In the same post she mentions feeling uneasy about Menel. Next she says she'll probably vote for me or Kath unless she uncovers something about us rereading our posts.
I'm quite at loss. Kathin and Glóanna don't seem as suspicious to me as they seemed before (though I still think they're both a bit suspicious), but I don't particularly suspect anyone else either.
Finally she votes for Eomer. And I'm wondering why. She thought he was a bit fishy, but a few of her last votes indicated she wasn't so suspicious to vote for him, unless I am missing something there. Her vote post said this:
Well, then: Glóanna has contributed more than Eomi.

++Eomi
I'm not sure what knocked Kath off of that completely and that I find unsettling.

Of the three voters of Eomer that live I actually find Volo the most suspicious. He seems to try to steer voting away from Kath. Such action can be taken in a few ways. Most notably to my mind is an attempt to gain the trust of an innocent.
The voter I find the next most suspicious is Lommy. At first she spoke a little of Eomer, but dropped him in favor of Kath and myself and then in her last post of the day had dropped Kath and voted Eomer. A bit baffling to me.

Nogrod

01-10-2007, 05:55 PM

Just a couple of thoughts before I go to sleep. (I started this before I made my last post but decided to post this in whole)

It may be one of the lynchers of Eomi was a wolf. It goes quite without saying if you look at basic random probabilities of any collection of four dwarves (wizards, hobbits, skinchanger Beornings). Those pressing on that fact and not noticing any other possibilities I still find a bit dubious then as I can't see any possible reason for any wolf to get it's furry claws involved in such an open matter. As you can see, almost no one has remade the suspicions on Kathin or Glóanna toDay because all this concentration on the last Day's last moments... Good for them if they're furry indeed.

Most of us have generation-old knowledge and experience of these things and any sane wolf among us would avoid that kind of publicity as it's just the same for them who of us innocents gets killed. Why would a wolf wish to kill Eomi last Night, I mean so desperately as to start a campaign or trying openly to make it happen? Why? Look at what has happened to me as I was the first to actually suggest there was something fishy in Eomi's posts yesterDay! (some others had suspected him too earlier but only vaguely so far) Please give me a bit more credit... Were I a wolf I would have voted conveniently for Glóanna or Kathin about an hour before the deadline (were they innocents) as I had had some points against them earlier and just watched the things unfold with a grin.

Of Eomi-voters Spawn was innocent (and had she not died the vultures lead by the wolves would have been on her toDay as it is so suspicious to be on the third place in a waggon). Beornómien feels innocent to me with her openly displayed frustration and angst in the last moments. That kind of gave me the assurance, at least for a while now. Voloin I'm a bit concerned though, as I've already said.

So back to the tracks then?

Kathin has been more than happy to try and shift the focus from the suspicions on her yesterDay to me with almost one-sided fervour. And she has been succesful, I must say. Look at her posts from this point of view and see for yourselves.

Glóanna's guilt I was doubting a bit in the end of yesterDay and now I see her even less guilty. She might be pulling it and I wouldn't be surprised for it, but she's not my top suspect right now.

Nori88 I believe was testing early in the Day and I wouldn't go on lynching him. As I said, as long as the Seer is alive I'm inclined to trust him...

Mr. Anguirelshield I'd be watching. The points made by Nori88 late yesterDay (comparing to the Valier-story) are noteworthy. Also his happiness to make something like a last call yeasterDay to say he was unhappy with Eomi gone before he was declared innocent bears notifying. How did he know he was innocent? He can say he didn't know it, but why did he declare it? To look good?

Valier the Grey is beginning to give me the creeps also. So little and so in haste. She could pull that and laugh later... I know it.

Menel-hobbit seems to be also one who is happy to join any promising bandwaggon of suspicion to make the discussion stay on the wrong tracks. I do not like the way he interacts here. Too safe and too calculated...

Obviously all of these can not be wolves. But some of them I'm sure are.

EDIT: X'd with Glóanna

Durelin

01-10-2007, 06:00 PM

Ah, I forgot, Noggy. People have been so quiet. No wonder you're upset! :D

In truth, my suspect list:

Volo
Kath
Valier or Lommy...tied for the number three spot.

Kath is just bothering me, and I'm not sure why.

This in particular, though it seems (and very likely might be) trivial:

You made fun of the idea that the baddies and Twins had been chosen because their names rhymed, which I'm pretty sure no one else had. That was a bit of Day 1 nonsense but it was still good to see that someone knew it was nonsense.

Now, Kath is very smart. And she herself mentions "Day 1 nonsense." Surely she didn't really think everyone who mentioned the whole rhyming thing was being serious? Personally I can't see how anyone could think anyone was serious about that.

And then there's this:

Good to see someone focusing on why spawn was killed, Holby. I was about to ask why no one had yet.

And then she does her lengthy Spawn analysis...hours later, other than that, all she's done is poke Nogrod a few times, perhaps just testing the waters (some very specific waters), maybe trying to get him to slip up, either to out him as a Wolf, or, I think more likely, to get him to incriminate himself.

But back to that quote in particular... Why does she want to look so closely at why Spawn was killed? It's the first Wolf kill pick...Day 1 was prime Wolfing time (pretty much as usual). Spawn was innocent...I think that's plenty enough reason for her to get picked by the wolves, and then there's the fact that she can analyze and all that. Why spend so much time looking for a trail on the first kill?

Distraction from anything worthwhile. Not pointing to anyone specific while still appearing quite helpful.

Maybe (and quite likely) I am reading more into these things than I should, but...whatever. Like there's such a thing in this crazy world with Werewolves, anyway.

Plus, the Kath and Volo connection is a good possibility.

But...why make it so obvious? I still feel like Volo is very likely not innocent...or Kath very likely isn't. But I can't say that both likely are at all. I'm actually sensing a Fenris Wolf. If Volo is a wolf, I'm pretty tempted to say that proves Kath innocent. Is it possible Volo is setting us up for his lynching, and pointing us in a nice wrong direction?

And is one of his Wolfish pals sitting back and laughing as they help the village hone in on him?

Speaking of reading too much into things... :rolleyes: I'm going to go for a while, and come back with my mind refreshed...hopefully. I'll have to vote in just a few hours, unfortunately.

Kitanna

01-10-2007, 06:16 PM

I'm feeling quite under the weather and will turn in soon. I will probably get on about a half an hour before day ends, but that will have me rushing to vote before deadline. So I cast my vote now in case I sleep through the end of day or I get on with no time to speak and comment properly.

Volo and Lommy have me the most worried. I have stated more than once that Volo seemed to be steering away from Kath, trying to state her innocence. I find it a rather reckless move, but a cunning one at the same time. There is something unsettling in his first post (mainly what was said about Rune). There's something that feels wrong. He has been helpful, but some of his posts have seemed "just helpful enough" to make him appear as an innocent to all eyes. And in his last post of yesterday he tried to get the last voters to either vote for Eomer or myself (a cross-post with the last votes for Eomer I believe), that post looks very odd given its nature of trying to help Kath. In all that I'm not sure what to say about Kath.

Lommy seems slightly more innocent. She went back and forth on her feelings toward Eomer and Kath. I'm surprised she voted for Eomer. The way I look at her vote and the posts leading up to it, it seemed like she was being pressured to do so by various other posters. That eases my mind about her, but not enough to completely remove her from my suspect list. I will continue to watch her closely.

For my vote:

++ Volo

Nilpaurion Felagund

01-10-2007, 06:25 PM

Noooooooooooooooooo! Spawn is dead! Dead! And to think she were the reason I'm here . . . :(

I shall be forced, once again, to take up my swor--axe, and avenge her.

(I'll be posting something more useful later, I promise. ^^Y Give me time to masticate.)

Rune Son of Bjarne

01-10-2007, 07:04 PM

I already asked Runi yesterDay how he could find this little hobbit an innocent above all others. I had my doubts of him then but not enough. Now I think I might look at him more closely.

No you didn't. . . You made a statement about not being able to see why I though Menel Innocent.

Anyways I don't know wether I should be conserned about the suspicions people have mentioned or flattered. I am glad if I am being more helpfull, one allways try to be, but one do not want to get lynched either.

This post is not really going to be helpful, but I have something I want to say.

There is to me a difference between being helpfull and making unesisary long posts. . .Sometimes it seems like people are analysing for analysing sake and using up lots of space on saying nothing. I personaly prefer when the post goes straight to the point with out too much weaving, it is makes things more comprehencable. . .sometimes it feels like slow death to read through them all and you end up fearing neither Eru or Ocean.

I am not asking people to use one liners, just don't keep writing when you have said what you wanted to say.
I will be back later with some thought on who to lynch.

Farael

01-10-2007, 07:12 PM

Real Life getting in the way, no time for a proper vote... and since Nilp won't do it, I'll say

++Farael

Boromir88

01-10-2007, 07:56 PM

Nori88 I believe was testing early in the Day and I wouldn't go on lynching him.~Bofgrod
And for today you passed.

As you can see, almost no one has remade the suspicions on Kathin or Glóanna toDay because all this concentration on the last Day's last moments
In no way have I forgotten about Gloanna...I don't see what all the fuss about Kathin is...but Gloanna is a wolf.

Glóanna's guilt I was doubting a bit in the end of yesterDay and now I see her even less guilty.
Oh really...how did you get that impression. I see Gloanna falling hook-line-and sinker here. She is pushing for the focus on the Eomi voters, seems like she trying to keep the village looking that way.

One thing Bofgrod, about you...you're an amazing villager, if you be innocent I praise Aule that we're finally on the same side...But you overthink yourself at times more than your own good, when a werewolf is sitting right dead in front of your face. There's no doubt at times I can do the same, which lead me the wrong way, but I try my hardest not to. You know once in a while there is a bold, crafty wolf out there that will double-bluff but there are 2 more of them, and no matter how guilty they may look as wolves, they still to the typical wolf-style. And that right there is their very cover! As people start overanalyzing and saying 'Oi, that's way to obvious to be a wolf.'

Nilpaurion Felagund

01-10-2007, 08:13 PM

Made this long post that made some sense--which was surprising, considering what I thought before I made that--but lost it. Argh!

Will attempt to recapture essence of that post. Curses!

Valier

01-10-2007, 08:23 PM

I have reread everything, but this cold is doing a number on my brain. Yes I am distracted, and no I know it's no excuse, but I am sure I will be feeling better really soon.

I was suspicious of Farael and now he votes for himself....bluff? well I am willing to let him go seeing as only an innocent would throw in the towel (or a very bold wolf) Nog just isn't sitting right with me as well as now Lommy. After reading her posts she seems well....calm. Lommy I find tends to get a little freaked out when she has a role (no offence ;) ) I just have this weird feeling......I am not sure if I will have time to vote later on, so I shall do it now. I may have time to comment quickly before the day ends.

++ Thinlomien

Durelin

01-10-2007, 08:31 PM

Unfortunately, I also have to vote, because I am not getting up early in order to do so before school. Sorry guys.

++Kath

I think Volo's a waste of time (sorry Volo), at least for now. If he is a wolf, he's a bold one, a foolish one, or a Fenris...or something. Maybe. I don't know.

Though Kitanna's moved up on my suspicion list. I think Boro makes a good point about her, and I'm willing to trust him for now. There's been too much focus on the Eomer voters, and I contributed to it...though personally I had to work my way from that into the bigger picture. If only I had time tomorrow before the deadline.

Anyway...sorry, it's off to bed with me now. Ta. And don't go killing someone random at the last minute this time, please. :p

Nilpaurion Felagund

01-10-2007, 09:03 PM

It's a list of votes. Holby already made one, but I decided to make my own, with my own comments.

[Times are in GMT +8; known innocents are underlined]

05:47am Éomer - spawn (spawn - 1)
07:44am Kitanna - Naria (spawn - 1; Naria - 1)
09:22am Durelin - Rune (spawn - 1; Naria - 1; Rune - 1)
04:04pm Naria - Kitanna (spawn - 1; Naria - 1; Rune - 1; Kitanna - 1)
07:23pm Kath - Farael (spawn - 1; Naria - 1; Rune - 1; Kitanna - 1; Farael - 1)
08:34pm Rune - Farael (spawn - 1; Naria - 1; Rune - 1; Kitanna - 1; Farael - 2)

This was the first vote cast for a person already with a vote, the makings of a bandwaggon. Were there indications of such a thing being made?

There were jocular accusations thrown by B88 (18 (http://69.51.5.41/showpost.php?p=504817&postcount=18)) and Ang (26 (http://69.51.5.41/showpost.php?p=504840&postcount=26)), but Kitanna (28 (http://69.51.5.41/showpost.php?p=504843&postcount=28)) seized upon B88's aforementioned post and made something of it. Menel (41 (http://69.51.5.41/showpost.php?p=504878&postcount=41)) thought it was fishy. Afterwards B88 (47 (http://69.51.5.41/showpost.php?p=504895&postcount=47)) and spawn (48 (http://69.51.5.41/showpost.php?p=504897&postcount=48)) have made excellent cases against her. But I digress--later on that.

Nevertheless, Farael (44 (http://69.51.5.41/showpost.php?p=504885&postcount=44)) was suspected using something that made sense (qq.v. Kath 53 (http://69.51.5.41/showpost.php?p=504913&postcount=53), Holby 56 (http://69.51.5.41/showpost.php?p=504918&postcount=56), Rune 59 (http://69.51.5.41/showpost.php?p=504922&postcount=59).) So I see little fishiness--or hairiness, I should say--in the votes against him.

10:22pm Menel - Kath (spawn - 1; Naria - 1; Rune - 1; Kitanna - 1; Farael - 2; Kath - 1)
10:31pm Holby - spawn (spawn - 2; Naria - 1; Rune - 1; Kitanna - 1; Farael - 2; Kath - 1)

This vote tied spawn with Farael. (Speaking of, are there double-lynchings?) An attempt by a wolf to save her fellow? Perhaps. But with nine vote still uncast after this, I think not. It could be that Holby will be unable to get online after this, and trusted her fellow wolf/wolves to hold the fort. But since there was no outstanding suspicion on spawn, this plan would have better worked by casting a vote on someone more suspicious. Nicht wahr?

10:44pm Ang - B88 (spawn - 2; Naria - 1; Rune - 1; Kitanna - 1; Farael - 2; Kath - 1; B88 - 1)
10:54pm B88 - Kitanna (spawn - 2; Naria - 1; Rune - 1; Kitanna - 2; Farael - 2; Kath - 1; B88 - 1)

This ties Kitanna with Farael and spawn. Although it is less interesting than the events that follow, it should be noted that there was an excellent case against Kitanna, which I am inclined to believe. Should she turn lupine, I'd say either Volo or Nogrod might be one of her fellows, seeing as they distracted the rest of the village, and shifted suspicion from her.

11:17pm Volo - Éomer (spawn - 2; Naria - 1; Rune - 1; Kitanna - 2; Farael - 2; Kath - 1; B88 - 1; Éomer - 1)
11:21pm Nogrod - Éomer (spawn - 2; Naria - 1; Rune - 1; Kitanna - 2; Farael - 2; Kath - 1; B88 - 1; Éomer - 2)
11:22pm spawn - Éomer (spawn - 2; Naria - 1; Rune - 1; Kitanna - 2; Farael - 2; Kath - 1; B88 - 1; Éomer - 3)
11:22pm Lommy - Éomer (spawn - 2; Naria - 1; Rune - 1; Kitanna - 2; Farael - 2; Kath - 1; B88 - 1; Éomer - 4)

These last four votes already have been discussed exhaustively.

Since I appear to be unable to return here after this, I must cast my vote now. She has been unable to explain away the case made against her yesterDAY, using the aftershock of the NIGHT death, it seems, as a cloak. Therefore I vote for:

++Kitanna

Good day, all.

Meneltarmacil

01-10-2007, 09:29 PM

I'm back again.

Boromir88 worries me less now than before. He seems to be explaining himself a lot more than on Day One.

As for Nilp *throws a pie at him,* I'm glad to see he finally spoke up, as I missed his attempted self-lynching. Good analysis, my friend, and I don't find you suspicious.

Anyway, I'm not going to lynch Nogrod just yet. I'll worry about him later. I'm probably going to vote for Kitanna and see what happens.

Anguirel

01-11-2007, 12:41 AM

On Nori88:

He's right that I often vote for him on Day One, but it's not part of a system or a trademark action. I'd never even noticed the fact that I do it particularly often before. However, I think I can explain this propensity. In WWX, Nori88 pulled the wool over my Ranger eyes so thoroughly that I've been wary of him ever since.

Look at my voting post though; I did mean what I said. I found that consequence-led statement about "If Gloanna is lynched, then I'll investigate X and Y" dangerous thinking (especially, I admit, as Y was I think myself...)

However, had I saved my casting vote I would have undoubtedly saved Eomer. I wasn't sure he was innocent - indeed he behaved in a similar way as he did in Fea's game, where he was guilty - but it seemed cruel to finish him before he got into his stride.

On Voloin:

I could see that highlighting of dwancing's Twin interests as a giveaway gloat of a victorious wolf.

I've done it myself before. The wolf appears helpful and lucid, and colours the evidence with his own thoughts, so it's an astute move, though it might have proved risky for Voloin.

I don't really think his Eomi vote makes him more or less likely to be lupine. But at the moment I do suspect him.

On the kill:

It's possible that Dwalin was targetted purely because she'd voted for the lynch-victim and thus left little in the way of a trail. She was also one of the most helpful analysts around, in my view. A very sad loss.

Thinlómien

01-11-2007, 12:48 AM

I'll make just a quick response to Voloin, since my lesson begins in five minutes. I'll be back with more things in a few hours.

Voloin, you misunderstand me. My suspicion about Balthin wasn't very strong at any phase. I did find her comment about my post suspicious, but otherwise, she didn't seem very suspicious. So, in general, she was "slightly suspicious" in my opinion, which was more suspicious than most of the rest of the "village".

Thinlómien

01-11-2007, 02:53 AM

As quite many of you have been confused of my vote yesterday, I think I should maybe say a few words about it. I had been suspecting both Balthin and Glóanna - but neither very much, and everytime I reread, I became less assured I was interpreting them the right way. Then, there comes the possibility lynch Eomi. I had not been very suspicious of him earlier (as you might recall I said he seems innocent in some of my first posts), but as Bofgrod really had a point againt him and I was all the time feeling that maybe after all looking at Glóanna and Balthin was looking at the wrong direction. I admit the vote for Eomi was in a way quite rash, and less thought-of than a vote maybe should be. It was just the thing that felt most right back at that moment.

As to not mentioning Balthin in my voting post, rereading a bit did reduce my suspicion of her, and my choice was then between Glóanna and this new lynch-idea Eomi.

I hope that's enough about me, I think I have other things to say too...

Also his happiness to make something like a last call yeasterDay to say he was unhappy with Eomi gone before he was declared innocent bears notifying. How did he know he was innocent? He can say he didn't know it, but why did he declare it? To look good? I noticed just the same and wondered it too! I might be exagerrating and overinterpreting this, but to me that sounds like he knew Eomi was innocent. And how could he know it? By being a wolf or the seer. And seers definitely are more careful than to do slips like this and don't have an urge to make comments like this, unlike wolves or ordos could have.

The village has mostly concentrated on Eomi-voters today. It's good that the bandwagon is analysed, but aren't we giving it a bit too much attention? Like Bofgrod says, this gives the wolves not involved in the bandwagon (in my opinion it is possible that there were two wolves - Voloin and Bofgrod - in the bandwagon or that there was one wolf or that there were no wolves at all in the bandwagon) a nice way to slip under the radar. As I'm quite assured some of you won't leave this topic (maybe even for a reason) the whole day, I have hereby decided to concentrate on other things so that they are analysed and looked through too... ;)

Don't murder me for this, but I'm actually glad the twins are dead. I'm less glad about the fact that they were Naria and spawn, good players both. Spawn will especially be missed. But no we know that none of our lynches or none of the wolves' kills can kill two people at the same time. Later in the game, the swaying of balance like that could be fatal for the village.

Balthin, I understand your explanation of your statement about my post. That was actually the way I thought it could be interpreted. I'm sorry to say, but your explanation however doesn't make me less suspicious of you, since that's just the kind of explanation that can be either genuine or fabricated by a wolf afterwards.

Though I'm not sure what to think of his innocence/guilt, I'm glad to see Voloin this active in the discussion. Cheers!

One villager I'm less pleased with is Valier. Like Durelin, I don't like her come and go- tactics. It smells slightly like a werewolf wanting to say as little as possible, fearing she will reveal herself. Also, she votes me though she has not thought me suspicious before, though she haad other suspects in the previous post (Runi, Bofgrod, Durael).

And I also know she's [Lommy] very dangerous when evil. Errr... how? I've been evil just once, and I was a Fenris Wolf... :rolleyes: Weird statement.

I will be back in some hours, with a complete list of what I thought about everyone, since I don't have the time to make it right now.

Holbytlass

01-11-2007, 03:56 AM

Nog just isn't sitting right with me as well as now Lommy. After reading her posts she seems well....calm. Lommy I find tends to get a little freaked out when she has a role (no offence ;) ) I just have this weird feeling.
Valier, this doesn't make sense to me. You say she's calm and then you say when she has a special role she freaks out, so by that logic I would say that you would find her innocent.

Thinlómien

01-11-2007, 06:10 AM

Valier, this doesn't make sense to me. You say she's calm and then you say when she has a special role she freaks out, so by that logic I would say that you would find her innocent. I wondered about it too, but then I thought she meant that "special role" means gifted (though I can't see how wolf is not a special role), and I'm not gifted-looking at all so it's safe for her to vote me, because in her opinion I'm either a wolf or an ordo.

Rune Son of Bjarne

01-11-2007, 07:09 AM

As I said I find Nogrod suspiciouse, even before the whole Eomi deal. But I must admit that he has made points with some merit and I am convinced it would be better to let him be for now. I am not at all putting in the clear, but I feel that there are other people I would like to see off first.

I might vote Valier. . .I cannot figure out what to think about her, she seem to be very random in her appearentses and in her statements. This is something that is always a concern of mine as it will be almost impossible for me to form an opinion of her and I would hate to vote for a person on those merits alone later in the game.

Then there is Farael, my view on him has not changed since yesterday, infact he just pussles me more than before. I am of course talking about his vote today.

Rune Son of Bjarne

01-11-2007, 07:28 AM

ok I am going to let Farael off this time as he did give reason for his vote, which I can kind of understand. I would probably never do so my self and find it a bit odd, but I can understand why one would want to do it.

So I will vote Valier

Because I am very unsure about her and doubt that I will become more sure later, yeah I am just very uncomfortable with having her around.

++Valier

Holbytlass

01-11-2007, 07:52 AM

++Thinlomien

I think she was trying to save a fellow wolf

Meneltarmacil

01-11-2007, 08:00 AM

Interesting idea about Durelin, Lommy.

But for now, I'll vote for:

++Kitanna

Nogrod

01-11-2007, 08:00 AM

Back for the last one and half hours.

Here's the score again... and please people, what are you thinking with this spread of votes? Like Holby said earlier it doesn't help at all as all votes begin to look more or less safe ones here!

Kitanna –> Volo
Farael –> Farael
Valier –> Lommy
Durelin –> Kath
Nilp –> Kitanna
Rune –> Valier
Holby –> Lommy (Volo1, Farael1, Lommy2, Kath1, Kitanna1, Valier1)
Menel -> Kitanna (Volo1, Farael1, Lommy2, Kath1, Kitanna2, Valier1)

EDIT: score upgraded with Menel's vote.

Thinlómien

01-11-2007, 08:25 AM

- In my eyes Holby seems quite innocent. There is no especial reason for that. She is calm, reasonable and helpful (though sometimes nearly to a lupine extent, but I'm still quite at ease about her) and this I did see that but didn't take it as a clue because I was going to answer Anguriel's question since I had originally asked it on the admin thread, Dancing Spawn beat me to it.
speaks for her innocence. Also, when she was a lovercreature last time I played with her, she was a lot more jumpy and less reasonable.

- I'm not entirely sure what I think about Rune. He's a bit confusing (and maybe confused?), but there's nothing that'd make me suspect him. So seems pretty innocent for now.

- Farael's self-vote made me think him quite innocent. I'm aware that Farael is a bold player, but I don't think he would vote himself, be he a wolf (or gifted, for that matter) after being suspected more than slightly and by numerous villagers. Only an ordo can be that careless of his life, though even that is not (in my opinion) a recommendable attitude.

- Nilp seems pretty innocent too. One could argue that his post was a wolf-hiding-behind-statics -post, but I don't think he seems wolvish. He has a genuine air.

- Menel is very difficult. I have my reasons to consider him innocent and there's no problem with the "overall feel" of him, but he's indeed flip-floppy, and as pointed out, eager to join bandwagons.

- Durelin has been really convincingly innocentish today. She's been helpful and she's had good points. But her yesterday wasn't as innocentish and her "lynch all" post, though a joke it was, was something a wolf would be glad to do, not having to take sides on anything. I'll be watching her to form a clearer picture.

- I don't see Volo particularly suspicious by behaviour, but I'm not sure at all about him. Maybe I'm so delighted of his greatly increased participation that I mix it with him looking innocent? :p I don't know, he's difficult to analyse. But I think (no offense) that if he was a wolf, he'd be more jumpy. But on the other hand, he has been slightly somewhat jumpy/defensive today... So I don't know what to think of him.

- Boro is difficult too. Lately, when he has been a wolf, he's every single time given me a bad feeling I've not been able to define. In this game, he's not giving me one. (Not that he would give me an innocent feel either.) Should I, based on this, think him innocent? No! Boro is far too dangerous to be overlooked and I'm not any kind of prophet. By reasoning, it is always difficult to tell whether Boro is innocent or guilty, and this time is no exception. I'll be watching him.

- Now, Nogrod. He's a difficult one too. Some of the things he says just sound wrong. Kath does have a good point about him. But he's also reasonable and I like his attitude of pointing out things others don't notice or concentrate on, and "shaking" the village. All this feels quite innocentish too.

- I think I should have voted Kitanna after all. She has failed to answer the accusations directed at her and has focused all her energy today to the Eomer-voters. She hasn't commented on anything else! I think I'm going to really vote for her today, unless there is something more incriminating against someone else today.

- Kath is a bit suspicious. Her yesterday's comment about my post still bugs me a bit. Also, as has been pointed out, she's a bit too eager to attack him. But, she's not overtly suspicious. If you forget those little faults, she seems her normal, calm and helpful self. One must keep in mind she's a dangerous and good player...

- Anguirel is quite worrying too. His Eomer-comment just before the deathline yesterday is certainly odd. There's also another thing. Last night (ww-time) I checked the posts on this thread. He had second most posts (12). I remember him being present, but I don't remember him argumenting/ discussing/ making points very much. That worries me too.

- Lastly Valier. Truth be told I'm annoyed with her tactics. As I said, she could easily be a wolf avoiding to be caught by talking the minimal amount. She fails to convince me of her innocence. Okay, I admit, I might mix her annoying me with her being suspicious... :rolleyes: Valier, you're a nice and clever gal, please speak up!

--------------
(Speaking of, are there double-lynchings?)Nope.

I see that I made a mistake, I thought Thorin said he would probably vote Durelin not DurinAs funny as they are, should we give up the names if they create this serious confusions? (Or this good excuses?)

In addition, Nogrod later in-directly agrees with Lommy that the points she made weren't good (post 67), which is technically a defense of himself just done in a way that doesn't make him look defensive.True. Rather than that fact itself, the thing that worries me most is that by saying that he avoided answering the accusation.

edit: xed with the last three posts

Boromir88

01-11-2007, 08:27 AM

Before I get into the rest of these posts here while I was away...I now believe Bomburlass is innocent.

Anguirel

01-11-2007, 08:28 AM

Okay. I don't intend to spread the vote further - as far as I'm concerned, those six are an acceptable shortlist, though personally I'd include Dori somewhere in there. I think his relinquishing of his former anxiety about me is slightly suspicious.

Good catch, Beorn, about Orilin's nonsensical reference to you being dangerous when evil...but I don't think it's particularly suspicious. It's simply that your myth has spread beyond your accomplishments in the lupine arena, I suppose!

I know it's quite intolerant of me, especially if she's ill and drugged to the gills, but our wizard's elusiveness is worrying. Then again, I haven't been garrulous myself today.

All in all, I think perhaps we could do worse than follow up the prevailing suspicions of Day 1, so I am, after all, tempted to vote for Gloanna...

Nogrod

01-11-2007, 08:33 AM

Glóanna's guilt I was doubting a bit in the end of yesterDay and now I see her even less guilty.Oh really...how did you get that impression. I see Gloanna falling hook-line-and sinker here. She is pushing for the focus on the Eomi voters, seems like she trying to keep the village looking that way.I have done some soulsearching with this.

The doubt from the last moments of yesterDay I see as being quite the normal agony a minute before the deadline when one's vote starts to feel too heavy. Everything feels doubtful then. But toDay then? After some looking back I'm starting to believe it was mostly something like a feel good -factor. In the middle of the situation where I once and twice doubted whether everyone was going insane around, she posted most reasonably - and perhaps as the only one who seemed to have gotten my meaning right.

But surely, if she's a wolf and actually fumbled yesterDay she's now making it good very well indeed. And that's to be sure just the thing a wolf-Glóanna could do.

I bringing her back to my list.

Boromir88

01-11-2007, 08:55 AM

though personally I'd include Dori somewhere in there. I think his relinquishing of his former anxiety about me is slightly suspicious.~Anguirelshield
Just so you know, I didn't relinquish anything. I've decided to look at other matters today. And I know you don't like it, but depending upon what pans out today, will influence what I think about you tomorrow. I could simply be tempted to vote for you right now, because I have a sneaking suspicion you and Gloanna are working together. That's just from one thing I spotted yesterday, not to mention all this other stuff that has been brought up today.

Hmm...don't know if there's anything else I need to say, my thoughts on people should be pretty clear. Today, I can wait to vote however.

Nogrod

01-11-2007, 08:56 AM

This is somewhat odd. There seems to be quite a common consent forming around here... Bomburlass is generally accepted as an innocent, Glóanna is a wolf, Valier looks suspicious, Voloin is somewhat suspicious and Nori88 somewhat more to the innocent side... I do share these sentiments at the moment.

Runi freaks me out, and it isn't the first time. So does Meneltarbo Baggins. There is something in these two I just can't get a hold on. Tomorrow, if I'm still here I will have to look at them both more closely.

Also as we have been discussing the Eomi voters toDay I would like us to concentrate a bit on the "early voters" tomorrow. Timezones surely affect the time when one is able to vote but timezones do not make people immune to werewolvery.

ToDay I will probably go for Kath or Glóanna, as yesterDay. But I'll try to get a quick look at both Valier and Voloin too just in case something turns up.

I don't think lynching Beornómien is a good idea. She looks pretty innocent to me, not the least because of the way she acted and reacted at the last moments of yesterDay.

Thinlómien

01-11-2007, 09:04 AM

This is somewhat odd. There seems to be quite a common consent forming around here... Bomburlass is generally accepted as an innocent, Glóanna is a wolf, Valier looks suspicious, Voloin is somewhat suspicious and Nori88 somewhat more to the innocent side... I do share these sentiments at the moment.An interesting find. But maybe it's good to have a village that thinks along the same lines, for a change... ;)

because I have a sneaking suspicion you [Ang] and Gloanna are working together. That's just from one thing I spotted yesterdayThat is interesting as well. Do you happen to have any proof more than the feeling...?

I don't think lynching Beornómien is a good idea. Oh, me neither... :p

I might be leaving and voting soon, since it's pretty much not happening anything here. I don't consider it very good passtime sitting in the school library updating the ww-game every two seconds... But then again, it's only 20 minutes to the deadline! :eek: Speak up, people! Where are all the votes? Maybe I'll stay, maybe the action's about to begin...

Boromir88

01-11-2007, 09:07 AM

ToDay I will probably go for Kath or Glóanna, as yesterDay. But I'll try to get a quick look at both Valier and Voloin too just in case something turns up.~Bofgrod
Clear your mind, do a process of elimination. It makes the decision easier as you don't have 50,000 different theories and possibilities flying around your head when you come to a decision.

Just think who you find suspicious and who you think is innocent. When you do vote, don't even think about the people you think are innocent eliminate them from your mind. Take the suspicious ones, consider a few things like, who you find most suspicious, who you think might be suspicious but it's not worth voting for them today or you're really not sure and find someone else to feel the most wolvish.

Process of elimination right there, get down to a few people, throw out all the other 2 million theories spinning around in your head...that'll make your decision a lot easier. Trust me it works.

Edit: x-posted with Thinlo

Kitanna

01-11-2007, 09:08 AM

I think I should have voted Kitanna after all. She has failed to answer the accusations directed at her
I've been in this situation so many times before that I know when my own grave is dug and I don't feel the need to make it any deeper.

Nogrod

01-11-2007, 09:10 AM

I've been in this situation so many times before that I know when my own grave is dug and I don't feel the need to make it any deeper.Interesting reaction, I must say... What is one supposed to make of it?

Kitanna

01-11-2007, 09:11 AM

Interesting reaction, I must say... What is one supposed to make of it?
Whatever you want Nogrod.

Boromir88

01-11-2007, 09:11 AM

Beornomien:
Originally Posted by Boro
because I have a sneaking suspicion you [Ang] and Gloanna are working together. That's just from one thing I spotted yesterday

That is interesting as well. Do you happen to have any proof more than the feeling...?
On Day 1 I said this about Anguirelshield and Gloanna:
It is unusual, and perhaps a sign of all our grizzled Werewolf experience, for Gloanna to be highlighted as a suspect this early; as a wolf she usually evades trouble. I wonder if that's a sign we are operating on a mistaken basis?~Lord Anguirelshield

This reminds me all too much of the time when Valier and my ancestors were wolves working together.

When my grand-daddy was gathering some suspicion Valier made a brilliant move of trying to get suspicion away from me by saying...'I've noticed Boro likes to insult people when he's a wolf. I haven't seen him insulting anyone so far.' This was a brilliant move to get suspicion away from me, and as it would turn out the wolves did destroy the village.

This comment Lord Anguirelshield makes about Gloanna reminds me all too much of that.
(From post 72)

Thinlómien

01-11-2007, 09:13 AM

I've been in this situation so many times before that I know when my own grave is dug and I don't feel the need to make it any deeper.Is this a confession? An efficient defense by an innocent villager (or a wolf :rolleyes: ) can save her. I think, Kitanna, that if you were more convinced of your own innocence, you wouldn't be giving up that easily...

++Kitanna

If someone's forgotten my resoning, check post 158 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=505243&postcount=158).

edit: xed with Boro
I see, I'm sorry, I had totally forgotten about that post of yours... :)
edit2: just realised I xed with Kit and Nog too...

Nogrod

01-11-2007, 09:14 AM

Just a few thought on Voloin...

Voloin has a strange liking to looking at signs (in #21 he questions Boro’s signs and toDay showed points on Spawn giving a sign to her twin). Now who would be on the read with these if not a wolf?

His vote for Eomi came quite out of the blue – attaching Valier-note from very early in the game. Looked fabricatedly helpful but felt dubious.

He does actually defend Kath quite consistently, but made this comment on #113 after Kathin still went on woth that myself flip-flopping thing (which I still don't understand). You're slipping again, Balth, Thilórn will probably try voting you also today...Hmm...

Not so much I would like to vote him toDay, but he really bears watching tomorrow.

Nogrod

01-11-2007, 09:15 AM

Is this a confession? I was thinking the same...

Nogrod

01-11-2007, 09:18 AM

Kitanna –> Volo
Farael –> Farael
Valier –> Lommy
Durelin –> Kath
Nilp –> Kitanna
Rune –> Valier
Holby –> Lommy (Volo1, Farael1, Lommy2, Kath1, Kitanna1, Valier1)
Menel -> Kitanna (Volo1, Farael1, Lommy2, Kath1, Kitanna2, Valier1)
Lommy -> Kitanna (Volo1, Farael1, Lommy2, Kath1, Kitanna3, Valier1)

Also noticing that Kitanna made quite a safe vote as the Day's first and is back to see how things go, I'm tempted to take that one as a declaration of guilt.

Boromir88

01-11-2007, 09:18 AM

One quick question is this day going to end 10:30 world clock time? Or 10:30 screwy down's clock time?

Nogrod

01-11-2007, 09:19 AM

In five minutes, I think.

Thinlómien

01-11-2007, 09:19 AM

One quick question is this day going to end 10:30 world clock time? Or 10:30 screwy down's clock time?According to the clock Oddwen post on the admin thread.

Thinlómien

01-11-2007, 09:21 AM

I fear there's going to be a wee bunch of no-voters toDay...

edit: I'm probably misusing the word "wee".... :rolleyes: I checked and means quite the contrary I thought it means. I was trying to say there will be lots and too much of no-voters today, not few nor did I imply it's nice to have so much of them.

Boromir88

01-11-2007, 09:21 AM

I think this is safe from someone sticking their hands in and screwing up...

++Gloanna

Volo

01-11-2007, 09:22 AM

I have too little time to sit here, didn't examine today's talk too carefully and so my vote will probably be based on public opinions too much.

Ah, I'm all too confused. There are several players I don't wan't to vote, but half of the village is suspicious to me.

Nogrod, he doesn't look wolfish, he is a big help and I'm pretty sure that the seer has either already checked him or will check him soon. Just like he himself said about Boromir88, such wolves are for the seer to catch. I trust both names here.

The two that look somewhat suspicious, but not to the extent of being lynched are Kath and Thinlómien.
Kath has made a few slips, but if she's a wolf, she's a really good one, and that seems to be the reason people want to lynch her.
Lommy, somehow she hasn't been too useful so far, she doesn't look like a wolf, maybe she goes after her father in being a good wolf...
Ok, I don't think of those two as wolves, for now. (Not enough time to analyse better.)

I'll join the bandwagon for ++Kitanna, even though there are too many I find suspicious.

EDIT: X:d with everything from post 171.

Nogrod

01-11-2007, 09:22 AM

I guess the last posts of her nailed her. At least to me.

++ Glóanna

(Should have done this yesterDay already)

One minute to go according to my clock.

Let's hope we have it right this time.

Kitanna

01-11-2007, 09:23 AM

A confession indeed.

I will say this, it seems whenever my ancestors have played with Boromir's he's been utterly convinced I've been a wolf and made sure I was the lynched one (innocent I might add). Yet when the game ends his ancestor remains standing, having led his fanged friends to victory. Keep that in mind.

Boromir88

01-11-2007, 09:27 AM

Well Kitanna, difference be, this time I'm not fanged so does this mean...this time you're not innocent?

Oddwen

01-11-2007, 09:31 AM

VOTING HAS ENDED

Death to follow shortly

(I apologize for the lateness, there were issues.)

Oddwen

01-11-2007, 09:42 AM

The votes were in, and Glóanna daughter of Gróanna was to be lynched.

She sighed resignatedly. "Just one favor I ask," she pleaded. "If the Innocents come out of this victorious, will someone please look after my child Gimli? He wanted to come, but I didn't let him."

They agreed, and they plaited a rope out of their party hoods. They hung her just before the shadows disappeared into the lack of sun, and they stared at her unchanged body as the stars came out.

"Drat," they said, and buried her next to the others.

"We're running out of stones," muttered Thorin.

"We'll manage," reassured his followers.

Living:
Beornomien
Valier the Grey
Meneltarbo Baggins
Thorin Angurielsheild
Kathin
Voloin
Dori88
Runi son of Bjarne
Orilin
Bifur Fegalund
Bofgrod
Bomburlass
Farael the Deathless

Dead:
Eomi of the Rohirrim (Innocent), beheaded on DAY one
dwancing spawn of fundin (Twin), beheaded on NIGHT two
Nari (Twin), died of sorrow on NIGHT two
Gloanna (Innocent), hung on DAY two

NIGHT three has now begun. I please need names from the Wolves, Seer, Hunter and Protector.

Oddwen

01-12-2007, 09:03 AM

Three wolves crept silently across Beornó's hall, each with stolen tools clutched in their paws, whispering and snickering to themselves. They would be giggling, but it is kind of hard when you have precious little lips to speak of.

"Should we kill them with the hammer, or the chisel?" one of them asked the others.

"Or should we rip his heart out?" asked another.

"You shall not do anything to this one," came another voice, one that was definitely not wolvish.

"Aw, a brave one," they sneered. "We'll fix you!"

"Maybe," he said.

He fought them off for a long while, silently, amazingly, but in the end one of the wolves crept up behind him and stove (stoved?) his head in with a hammer. At this, the house finally started waking, and the wolves hurriedly hid and changed.

They didn't have to feign amazement or shock, but they did feign respect when the body of Durin the Dead-full was found with a smile on his face.

Living:
Beornomien
Valier the Grey
Meneltarbo Baggins
Thorin Angurielsheild
Kathin
Voloin
Dori88
Runi son of Bjarne
Orilin
Bifur Fegalund
Bofgrod
Bomburlass

Dead:
Eomi of the Rohirrim (Innocent), beheaded on DAY one
dwancing spawn of fundin (Twin), beheaded on NIGHT two
Nari (Twin), died of sorrow on NIGHT two
Gloanna (Innocent), hung on DAY two
Farael the Deathless (Protector), crushed with a hammer protecting his choice on NIGHT three

Holbytlass

01-12-2007, 09:13 AM

Oh, we lost our protector but he did his job well!! Great praises to Farael!! We don't know who the wolves meant to kill but it makes sense that it was someone that Farael thought to be innocent. So that can give us a possibly known innocent to help narrow things down.

Holbytlass

01-12-2007, 09:16 AM

"Should we kill them with the hammer, or the chisel?" one of them asked the others.

"Or should we rip his heart out?" asked another.
I just saw this.

Anguirel

01-12-2007, 09:31 AM

This is becoming a dismal round of apologies for me. I can't believe I missed the vote. Blast.

Farael abandoned his propensity for strongly-emphasised individual duels this game - perhaps because of the responsibility his role carried. It is a strange errand, a sort of mixture of Cobbler and Rangerdom.

Things are now getting dangerous and the Three are still unscathed, but we still have some time. I'd advise the Seer to stay hidden unless he or she fears they will be next to go - and depending, of course, on the quality of their information.

Poor Gloanna. I do wonder if she was right about Dori - certainly the wolves at the moment are doing well enough to be consistent with the view that he was one of them.

Holbytlass

01-12-2007, 09:36 AM

Farael's post aren't helpful, there was only 5. A couple of first Day jokes and a couple about his lynch plan and then a vote for himself. hhm, too bad the adventure(RL) has been a bit rough on him.

Anguirel

01-12-2007, 09:39 AM

Also, I'm interested to see that Gloanna's valediction was miscontructed by some as a confession. I'm going to be looking at those posts, and I'll try to see which conclusions were jumped to, and why.

Bofgrod and Beorn were the two main "confession" proponents, Bofgrod more emphatically and to my mind more suspiciously, easing the way for Beorn to vote for Gloanna.

Finally, I was startled by Voloin's remarkably naive comment about Dori and Bofgrod - "such wolves are for the Seer to catch." We can't let a name and reputation alone act as a shield! Might these two and Voloin constitute our villains, I wonder?

Rune Son of Bjarne

01-12-2007, 10:22 AM

Good job Farael!

I doubt that anything was ment by the them and his part that Holby points out. . .if anything it just means that there was farael and the person protected.

anyways I will return in a lot of hours with some proper material for you guys.

Boromir88

01-12-2007, 10:43 AM

Let's get down to business here...

Anguirelshield, you are in a hot seat let me tell you. Actually you are very crafty, I kick myself for not noticing it earlier. What you've done is quite smart, you've objected to both of our lynchings...Eomi and Gloanna. As it turns out they were both innocent, which makes you look pretty smart. You were right we were wrong. But I said it makes you look smart.

See only a wolf would know who's innocent and who's not, so it's fairly easy for them to come out and object to a lynching. And also what you've done is pretty much criticize every decision we've made. Besides pointing suspicion at me, all you've done is criticize are lynchees. Instead of offering who we should go after these last two days, you vote for me and you have one no vote, but you are quite good at criticizing are decisions.

Definitely a very smart move for a wolf, it seems like you're helpful and you're good to keep around as you've been right on two instances. But it's a clever wolf ploy...you see? While you're not really saying much at all besides the fact that you've disagreed with the two lynchings we've made. While not offering much of anything else as far as who we should lynch. See you haven't even stepped out and cried for my lynching, you've simply stayed in the back and needled suspicion at me...like you're doing right now:
Poor Gloanna. I do wonder if she was right about Dori - certainly the wolves at the moment are doing well enough to be consistent with the view that he was one of them.
And exactly Anguirel, what do you think the wolves are doing? You say they are consistant with me being one of them, but just stop there. Come on, expand a bit, what is it that the wolves are doing?

I will give you credit as today you've stepped out to finally put some names out there for consideration...instead of indirectly needling me and criticizing our lynchings. Hmm a wolf gaining a bit of confidence to step out of the den, I wonder?

Rune Son of Bjarne

01-12-2007, 10:57 AM

I have to say that a wolf objecting to innocents being lynched is very basic wolf stradegy, not to say that it is not being used. I am just pointing out that it is not like a extremely inteligent plan that only a genieus could think of.

Valier

01-12-2007, 10:58 AM

Well I feel better today and I am still confused about this village. So we have left...

Lommy
Menel
Ang
Kath
Volo
Boro
Rune
Durelin
Nilp
Nog
Holby
Valier

Ok now people I am unsure of are....
Menel
Kath
Durelin
Nilp

People I have suspicion of
Nogrod
Rune
Ang

Innocent?
Volo
Holby
Boro
Lommy

Ok so as for my suspicions Nogrod is on the top. I just think something is fishy with him. His behavior towards the end of the day with Kitanna, would make him look innocent as it would Lommy. I am more inclined to think Lommy innocent over Nogrod. Yes I said I suspected her, but she is quite calm and I do think that that is because she is innocent. Nog seems to be pushing towards people I believe to be innocent, so it makes me think he is a wolf trying to get us Ordos to kill off all
our own people. Now Rune and Ang I can find less about. I just have a feeling I guess about these two....just too helpful maybe? I'm not sure yet.

I shall be here for awhile reading and then it's off to work. I will be back later in the day.

X-ed with Boro and Rune

Durelin

01-12-2007, 12:12 PM

Boro - With your reasoning regarding Ang, I get the feeling you're grasping for something...and that's all you can grab hold of. So, he's been "right" on two occasions...because he hasn't suspected two people? Considering the number of people to suspect, not suspecting a couple of innocent people doesn't exactly point to "oh, they know."

Ang might well be a wolf, but I'm surprised that such reasoning as this is all you have to go after him. Makes me wonder if we're dealing with the usual Boro here or not...

Personally, right now I feel I can trust Ang. Nogrod seems himself, too...but I know he's very crafty. He's drawn a good bit of attention to himself, and I can see him being a wolf "on the edge," but I don't feel like that's the case. (From the stories, I think his ancestors are more suspected when they're innocent...but I don't know.)

And, I'm kinda with Ang...not on criticizing, really, but saying that the focus has been too concentrated. But that's natural, isn't it? You have to start somewhere.

Kath still worries me.

Volo's vote really bugs me. He does his best to sound extremely uncertain, but then adds a vote for someone who already has two votes.

Why? I know spreading the voting is bad, but if you're really unsure, at least just vote for someone who only has one vote. Was he really suspicious of Kitanna at all until people started voting for her?

I'll join the bandwagon for ++Kitanna, even though there are too many I find suspicious.

No, he's suspicious of half the village...but naturally he has to vote for Kitanna. If he truly thought her suspicious, or just thought she was the best bet, I can understand that. But all he had to do was be straightforward about that. And he wasn't.

Things are now getting dangerous and the Three are still unscathed, but we still have some time. I'd advise the Seer to stay hidden unless he or she fears they will be next to go - and depending, of course, on the quality of their information.

About the dangerousness of the situation and the seer...in the best case scenario, the seer will know two wolves and an innocent who's still alive...and somehow I doubt that. But even three innocents would be helpful...if the people he/she dreamed of aren't dead already. *sigh* Yeah, I don't think we should rely on our seer, regardless of how "good" they are at their job.

Glad your feeling better, Valier! Now I can suspect you, too, without feeling guilty. :p

Okay...I have a crazy plan! I say we forget everyone we suspect, and just look over the list again of who's still alive. Pick out a person who no one has suspected and you basically forgot about, and vote for them.

Personally, I think we have a better chance that way, especially at this point.

And it might be fun?

I might go with that and vote for Menel, but I also think I even have a reason now that I think about it! I always like to go after people who say just enough, and just enough stuff that seems helpful, that they don't get noticed. To me, Menel falls into this category really well. His presence has been maintained just enough...but not enough to get him in trouble. I have a feeling our wolves are all lying low this game, because they haven't had to do anything to protect themselves yet.

Anguirel

01-12-2007, 12:33 PM

I don't want to turn today into a trial of my guilt or innocence, as I know that that would be a complete waste of time better spent pursuing actual wolves. Naturally, Nori, I do not expect you to believe me.

However I must echo Rune's point that your accusation doesn't add up in this particular:

1. You think you've spotted me as a wolf because I've been right about two innocents

2. You say you think I've been "very crafty"

I agree with Rune that blabbing about innocent villagers would be exceedingly dim of a wolf. You can't have it both ways, Nori88 - accuse me of stupidity, but don't accuse me of cunning.

I flip-flopped on Gloanna, actually, to my annoyance in retrospect. I should have defended her properly, and voting would have helped as well...

So I haven't actually given unqualified support to both of the lynched innocents. Which means, I suppose, I could still be a cunning wolf.

If you are a wolf, Nori88, you're getting surprisingly hot under the collar - you've been known to behave with more savoir-faire - so I'm willing to grant you a stay of execution. I still think that statement of Voloin's was extraordinary, and that he is probably a wolf working with you or Bofgrod, but I now doubt that it's both of you.

Boromir88

01-12-2007, 12:46 PM

Runi, well I never said only a genius wolf was capable of it, I said it was a clever ploy.

Orilin and Anguirelshield, both of you have grossly twisted my words. It's not about the fact you were right about two innocents. We all have our own we consider to be innocent, some are right and some are wrong.

The fact is Anguirelshield is you have been critical on the two lynchings we've made, whilst not proposing what to do. You've stayed back to needle suspicion at me, but have not come up with any further proposals except to criticize the lynchings we've made. The importance is not that you were right about two innocents, the fact is you've opposed the lynching of those two innocents, yet have not stepped out to add anything as to what we should do.

I also disagree with your use of Runi, it seems like you're using him as a crutch to help you stand up. All Runi said is I have a point just that any basic wolf could use the strategy, doesn't have to be a cunning wolf. Which I agree with, I never said it takes a genius wolf to do, it's just a smart move.

I agree with Rune that blabbing about innocent villagers would be exceedingly dim of a wolf. You can't have it both ways, Nori88 - accuse me of stupidity, but don't accuse me of cunning.~Anguirelshield
It's funny how you're adding words and meaning to Runi's 3 sentence post to further your argument. Runi didn't talk anything about going on about innocent villagers was a dim movie...he simply said any basic wolf could use the strategy I was talking about. Who said anything about blabbing on about innocents was a dumb move? I didn't, nobody did, that's something you just came up with. It seems like you are trying to convince others that it's far too stupid to be a wolf move, not going to work against me Anguirelshield.

Boro - With your reasoning regarding Ang, I get the feeling you're grasping for something...~Orilin
Better than nothing. When I first entered today there was nothing about trying to find wolves...just a bunch of bilge about Farael's sacrifice. Sorry if I'm the one here trying to work to catching wolves and not lamenting over the dead.

With that out of the way Orilin, what you said about Voloin is probably the most reasonable and sensical thing I've read all day.

Anguirel

01-12-2007, 12:48 PM

The wolves' most deadly weapon, my friends, is consensus.

There seems to be quite a common consent forming around here... Bomburlass is generally accepted as an innocent, Glóanna is a wolf, Valier looks suspicious, Voloin is somewhat suspicious and Nori88 somewhat more to the innocent side... I do share these sentiments at the moment.

Nogrod, he doesn't look wolfish, he is a big help and I'm pretty sure that the seer has either already checked him or will check him soon. Just like he himself said about Boromir88, such wolves are for the seer to catch. I trust both names here.

Unintentionally or through ingenious subtlety, these two players here both encourage a kind of defeatism, suggesting that certain suspects are off-limits, not to be worried about, safe to assume about. That worries me.

Valier

01-12-2007, 12:51 PM

Ahhh I see what you are saying Ang. I saw this post of Nogs and thought along the same lines (well in different words) But I did miss Volos. Now I see what makes him so suspicious. This could be a gifted ploy though to try and leave hints incase they die. Hmmmmmm

Anguirel

01-12-2007, 12:54 PM

Nori, like Gloanna I am too exhausted to argue with you, and I would not be that surprised if my fate turned out to be similar.

As it happens, I do have some positive action I'd like to pursue - a closer look at Bomburlass. However, at the moment I intend to vote for Volo.

I think that you, Nori, are probably innocent, if blinkered, because of the force with which you're pressing your case. But I would enjoy lynching you a lot, so my eye won't stray from your fabulous oratory...

Anguirel

01-12-2007, 01:02 PM

Finally I'd like to note that having read over my sparse posting yesterday, I wasn't critical of Gloanna's lynching. I even semi-endorsed it before I vanished and, moronically, got distracted and didn't come back...I said something to the effect of "I might even vote for Gloanna".

I also did not spend this morning pointlessly "lamenting over the dead"; rather I brought up a possible link between Volo and Nori and/or Bofgrod, which Nori88 seems rather touchy about.

This is sinking into a duel which I would really rather not sully myself with, so I will concentrate for the moment upon other suspects, namely the unimpeachable Bomburlass and the apparently naive Voloin.

Meneltarmacil

01-12-2007, 01:05 PM

I see two main suspects here, Anguirel and Boromir88.

Ang seems to have gone after Boromir a great deal, and offered little insight for most of Day One, though he did get better later on.

As for Boromir88, his Day One mysteriousness seems to have vanished, but his accusations against Anguirel, while possibly believable, do present a problem in that Anguirel's only objection to Kitanna's lynching occurred on Day One, and was mainly more of an observation on her behavior. He later cites this as evidence that Ang and Kitanna may be working together. This does not appear to be the act of a wolf, for if Kitanna dies and is confirmed as an innocent, then the idea of their both being wolves falls apart. Nevertheless, Boromir really strikes me a sodd in that he continues to be suspicious of Anguirel after the fact and twists his words a different way than before to continue to make him look suspicious.
I also intend to keep Kitanna's last words in mind:
I will say this, it seems whenever my ancestors have played with Boromir's he's been utterly convinced I've been a wolf and made sure I was the lynched one (innocent I might add). Yet when the game ends his ancestor remains standing, having led his fanged friends to victory. Keep that in mind.
Make no mistakes, Boromir88. I'm going to keep my eye on you.

Anguirel

01-12-2007, 01:09 PM

I see two main suspects here, Anguirel and Boromir88.

Can I stress that I'd really rather this did not happen? Everyone, keep your minds open and do not get distracted by possibly mutually misguided duellists. Look all about you, rule out no-one out and watch for casuistry, consequentialism and consensus - the three cs of the lupine code.

Boromir88

01-12-2007, 02:27 PM

Can I stress that I'd really rather this did not happen? Everyone, keep your minds open and do not get distracted by possibly mutually misguided duellists.~Anguirelshield
For once I agree with you and this puts some bad light on Menel.

I also did not spend this morning pointlessly "lamenting over the dead"; rather I brought up a possible link between Volo and Nori and/or Bofgrod, which Nori88 seems rather touchy about.
No, I wasn't actually touchy about that, if you look I gave you credit for finally stepping out and proposing something. But your first post of the day was a lamentation.

Anyway Valier and Orilin seems innocent...Runi I'm going to wait and see more of. He seems to be rather joyfully sitting back and watching the action.

Anguirelshield is probably a smooth conniving wolf.

Meneltarbo and Voloin have just started to trouble me.

Nobody else has uttered a word today, which taking a look at things this day is supposedly going to be one of the queit ones. This whole day is frustrating.

Anguirel

01-12-2007, 02:32 PM

Bofgrod won't be back for most of today if I recall, which is annoying because I want to inquisit him rather.

Nori88, you snivelling, contumacious, cocky little naysayer of your lord and master, if you want a fight I'm perfectly prepared to give you one. You're being foolish, and blustering, and starting to have to backpedal, and you're infuriatingly stubborn, and if you are none of these but guilty then you are the equal of the Necromancer himself, and I'm still considering that option.

Ha.

Durelin

01-12-2007, 03:03 PM

Too bad there's no double...triple...quadruple lynchings. I'd like to off all the perpetually quiet ones... They frighten me because I will never be able to really have any even gut feelings about them...well, other than worry.

Menel - Once again your logic confuses me. Why would you ever suspect Boro and Ang together, and basically for the same reason: that they've gone at each other a bit.

Odd.

Anyway Valier and Orilin seems innocent

How boring, Boro! Perhaps I was right in calling you "Boro-lite." You disappoint me.

Meneltarmacil

01-12-2007, 03:13 PM

Okay, following the advice on avoiding duelists, I've been looking over Runi's posts.

He seems to post mostly in-character stuff the first Day and has a sort of rivalry going with Nogrod that I find somewhat unusual. The people he suspects have mostly turned out to be known innocents, Valier being an exception.

He makes a couple of statements about it being strange that Nogrod is agreeing with him early on and suspecting the same people he does. Nogrod suddenly starts fighting with him after Runi has repeated that sentiment. This I find quite suspicious. It resembles something werewolves typically do: If one of them is acting suspiciously, one of its furry friends will "suspect" it and mention said suspicious behavior, hoping the other wolf will cease its suspicious actions.

With this in mind, combined with suspicion of known innocents, I find it likely that Runi is a wolf. I'll follow up with an analysis of Nogrod later.

Nogrod

01-12-2007, 03:25 PM

Back for an hour+, about. I need to check the situation, but as I saw you Ang had something to ask from me, please do it in near future.

Boromir88

01-12-2007, 03:31 PM

Anguirelshield, stubborn I'll take as a compliment, cocky...a little. But I will not have my integrity insulted. Even if you be of nobler blood than me I will not bow to one who insults my integrity. I feel passionate about my brothers, I will argue for them with passion, and I will die for them with passion. Once one wolf is down they will all crumble.

I tell you this Anguirelshield, son of Gurthain II, if you be innocent indeed this scrap does nothing to help us. It only impeeds us, and for that I will move on. But if you be fanged may the wrath of Darael the Deathless and your entire house fall upon you for your treachery. This does not clear you, but we've had all we need to say to eachother, and now it's time to move on to more constructive things. Perhaps we can save this Day yet.

Let me look at the Kitanna voters...there sure be a lot of them:

Nilp
Menel
Thinlo
Volo
Bofgrod

(Excluding me I think that's all of them).

The two here that look the worst are Menel and Volo. Menel seems to be subscribing to a lot of things and just simply moving along with everyone. Pretty much a bandwaggoning wolf. And as Bofgrod and Anguirelshield have reinforced there is a village consensus going on...which means we do have bandwaggoning wolves.

Menel's post about myself and Anguirelshield being the two big suspects is exceedingly strange. On Day 1 he was doing a lot of 'yesing' He agreed with me that Kitanna looked strange, he agreed with Durelin that it was quiet and that wasn't good...only wolves like quietness. Then he jumps onto a Kath vote.

On Day 2 he says I don't worry him as much as before, he's not ready to lynch Nogrod yet and will probably go for Kitanna. All of which was generally what the village was thinking at the time...and this just seems like an over-explanation:
Now if anyone thinks I'm trying to say Volo is completely innocent, that isn't the case. It is possible that he's a wolf; however, he is not at the top of my list.
He tries to tell people that Volo is probably double-bluffing (talking about the Eomi voters), but then goes back to play the 'this doesn't mean he's not a wolf' card.

Menel, Volo is there a connection between those two?

Of the Kitanna voters as well, Bofgrod worries me too. I found him suspicious after his role in the Eomi wagon...and let's take a look at yesterday:
Please give me a bit more credit... Were I a wolf I would have voted conveniently for Glóanna or Kathin about an hour before the deadline (were they innocents) as I had had some points against them earlier and just watched the things unfold with a grin.
Personally I never believe anybody who says things like 'If I were a wolf I would have done things differently' that just gets me more suspicious. As many times my ancestors have been wolves, they have all night to think up some sort of defense. And in any village, any wolf can think of a reasonable defense for any vote they make. Basically I'm not buying the 'if I were a wolf I would have jumped onto Kath and Gloanna.'

Of those who did not vote for Gloanna yesterday, Runi looks the most strange. A definite safe vote for Valier where he probably wouldn't face a lot of pressure for as Valier has been mostly absent and is a good spot to hide if a wolf does not want to stick their paws in the Gloanna lynching.

Edit: x-posted with Durelin, Menel, Nogrod

Anguirel

01-12-2007, 03:42 PM

Nogrod

01-12-2007, 04:00 PM

What a mess...

Now how come, when my line is innocent all the people find me suspicious at least a couple of Days or the wolves kill me the first or second Night, but when my family-members are cobblers or wolves, they slip trusted to the end if the Seer does not come in between... :(

Well, I'm very short on time toDay and I have a feeling that the wolves wish to get me done with. YestrerDay I had time to fight back, but toDay I won't be. So if they manage to turn your minds to serve their mischevious ends, look closely tomorrow who have been the ones to keep this recurring suspicion of myself rolling. Not probably the ones who are the loudest, but those who add to it some little bits to keep the "case" going.

Some answers first, but then I really don't think I should use my scarce minutes on this. (Okay, I know you can't trust my word - but do not go with every whimsical idea some malignant creatures offer you either)

Personally I never believe anybody who says things like 'If I were a wolf I would have done things differently' that just gets me more suspicious.Personally I can't say I would categorically believe or disbelieve any kind of thing. It depends on who says it and what s/he seems to imply with it. Think of the context, please. If I was most worried about my own skin (ordo or wolf) I should have done just as I said I should have: voted not too early but early enough, for someone about whom I had raised some points already. That's probably the reason my family doesn't get suspected when they're on the dark side as then they play carefully, trying to save their necks. But as an innocent I just try to do whatever I can. Sometimes it goes right, sometimes it goes wrong.

Ok. I saw Ang had questions to me. I'll leave this here this time...

Nogrod

01-12-2007, 04:34 PM

Right. Bofgrod:

1. Why were you so quick to take Gloanna's despairing words as an out and out confession? Could you give us some rationale? Do you regret acting the way you did?

2. Why were you so unwontedly happy to follow the consensus emerging about various suspects, even as, to your credit I suppose, you highlighted it?

3. Would you consider it fair to say that at present you have quite a lot of influence in this house?
1.
Here's how Glóanna replied: I've been in this situation so many times before that I know when my own grave is dug and I don't feel the need to make it any deeper.My first reaction was astonishment. What is this? Why does she post like that? Is she a wolf who under an avalanche-looking voting (remember how many had said they would probably vote her!) decided to say "okay, that's enough, do your worse", or what? Why should an innocent say something like that? And I posted that question, as you can see on the thread. Then I went back to looking at Voloin's posts as the time was short. Then I saw Beornomien making the very same point openly (which I had only thought myself) and posted that I had had the same feeling about it. And I must admit, that the very fact that Beornómien had read it the same way gave me some confidence that my idea was not too far-fetched.

Do I regret? Of course, a lot. (What do you suppose a fictious wolf-Nogrod would say? eg. what's the point of the question?) But I must say that I have one special reason to regret it as in the "darkest hour" of yesterDay when I felt that the whole village was getting nuts and running rampant fex. after myself with ridiculous points she felt to be almost the only one who seemed to understand what I was doing and what I meant. I first over-read her as trying to make me feel good about her and brought her back to my list - then her last comments sealed it, to me, then. That was a sorry occasion as at one point I really was beginning to remove her from my list and felt good.

2.
I came online quite late as you can all see and was amazed about the common consent that seemed to be building up. So much that I felt a need to mention it in a post so that everyone could see it (if they hadn't already). Why to mention it? Because normally I don't like them. To me they firstly talk of great wolvery than exceptionally witty village. And what concerned me the most was that after reading all there was I tended to agree with the consensus. Had I had like two or three hours then, I would have tried to turn the thing around just to see if there would have been better points (as I very weakly tried indeed at last minutes with Voloin), but I had no real resources and had to play with the things I had - namely looking at Kathin and Glóanna who were my main suspect from the previous Day.

3.
I'm not sure. As one who has been forced to spend almost all of the yesterDay and so far all the time toDay on defending myself instead of trying to make reasonable points getting the wolves, I can't say I feel the way the game goes is in my hands in any way. On the contrary: I feel I'm dancing under the command of the wolves. I probably have some influence in this Hall, I'm not the only one who has, we all have it: some people are more influenced by some, others are more influenced by others - and I myself am influenced by you others too; some more, some less. But as long as I only defend and do not "attack", that is of no use to anyone. So yes and no.

Kath

01-12-2007, 05:19 PM

Warning: This is long. It's an analysis of Nogrod and can that guy talk! :rolleyes: This is only Day 1 as well, should get the rest up later, I'm writing it as you read this. However, I won't be around tomorrow (RL) which means I have to do as much of this as I can and vote toNight. I hope to get it finished but with how long it's taken so far it may not be possible. Anyway sorry this didn't go up yesterDay but thanks to powercuts there was simply no way it could.

Nogrod:

Day 1:
Post 13: Agrees with Rune that it may be the three non-dwarves that are the wolves. Which actually hasn't been disproved since Valier, Lommy and Menel are all still alive. Believes the Twins to be good. Pretty standard opening comment.

Post 16: Then says it's too convenient for the non-dwarves to be the wolves, except maybe it's not - flip-floppy and unable to come to a conclusion. Look, I know this is all based around what was obviously a joke, but it doesn't mean you can't get relevant information from it. Don't look at the specific words but what they show. He's covering his back.

Post 20: Again covering himself somewhat, and I'm not sure why he says everyone should look at Boro. If both Boro and Nogrod are wolves it may make sense for one to mention the other just in passing on Day 1. That way if one is later lynched and we look back at what they said there isn't an obvious omission.

Post 30: He then clears Boro, saying he would not wish to vote for him, but does not seem to have 'looked at' him as he said should happen. About halves the village, suspecting those who had barely posted and thinking those who had posted more innocent. His innocent list consisted of Boro, spawn, Farael, Volo and Ang, though Ang was almost an afterthought. Two of that list are now dead and have been found innocent. If Nogrod is a wolf I think it's likely that one wolf would have been put in this innocent list.

Post 34: Mentions suspicion of Gloanna, and says that he does think her suspicious but not overly so.

Post 35: Apologises for misspelling Boro's name ... I think.

Post 57: Lists the voting so far and the reasons for said votes.

Post 61: Wonders how Rune found Menel innocent, saying that if both were wolves Rune wouldn't have said it. Thinks Lommy may be wolvish because she isn't being original, but says he'll give her the benefit of the doubt. Says Nilp and Valier shouldn't be voted for because they haven't had a chance to post. Wary of Durelin and Eomer because they posted little and left early.

Post 63: Argues with Eomer saying that analysis is good on Day 1 as it heightens the chance of catching a wolf. Yes it does, but if a wolf is orchestrating the analysis it can lower the chance, and it was Nogrod who tried to move everyone away from the in-character stuff.

Post 66: Notes that although Eomer says Day 1 posting has value when looked at in retrospect, Eomer's own posting would tell people nothing, and thinks this suspicious. True indeed. Nogrod pushed for Eomer's lynch and got it, and that's a shame because I would have loved to see whether he made it through the first Night and how Nogrod would have dealt with it either way.

Post 67: Agrees with Lommy that Kath seems suspicious for thinking Lommy's post had good points, thus indirectly backing up his earlier claim that Lommy is not being as good a player as she could be.

Post 73: I'm a mite confused. He says he doesn't want Boro lynched until the Seer is dead. Why not? If Boro is innocent the Seer isn't about to tell anyone, at least not unless he/she dreams of Boro and then the three wolves. But if the Seer dies without giving such a list there is no evidence to prove him guilty or innocent. Just seems an odd thing to say. Same goes for what he says about spawn. Wants Lommy and Ang alive. Some suspicion over Gloanna and Kath who may possibly be working together, a theory now disproved, and thinks that at least one is a wolf. Repeats suspicion of Eomer and says he is also somewhat suspicion of Durelin and will look at her later.

Post 79: Looks at Durelin and mentions that though she mentions Kath's lack of talking she also considers this normal. I think Nogrod is wondering whether this means the two are working together or not. Thinks Naria and Menel were trying to hide in the majority by voting with the tide. Naria may well have been but she was no wolf, the same can't yet be said for Menel.

Post 83: Gives a voting list and mentions that the Finns are the ones who will decide the lynch.

Post 87: Suspicion of Gloanna, Kath and Eomer. Seems to be downgrading Gloanna as a suspect after what Boro said (taking advice?) and Eomer as well to some extent saying he is too hard to get a handle on.

Post 88: Asks if anyone is willing to help lynch Eomer. It's so blatant, he wants Eomer dead. Would a wolf be that bold? Nogrod plays safe a lot of the time but he is a very good player ... I wouldn't put it past him.

Post 92: Votes Eomer and tells Lommy not to just not vote.

Post 96: Not sure what he's advising people to do, it almost looks like he's trying either to save Eomer or to get a double lynch. What were you up to Nogrod?

Post 101: Points out the deadline.

Eomer was susbsequently lynched and found to be innocent.

Now, it's probably obvious to all that I began that thinking Nogrod guilty so please if you got through it and you're still awake comment on it, give me some perspectives! Right now I've got consipiracy theories a mile long round this guy and it's possible not one is right, I need some input.

From Day 1 I think it's possible that Boro or Ang could be fellow wolves if Nogrod is one, but I think it unlikely that both would be. I'm aware that leaves a third slot open, but from this I don't know who would fill that.

Kath

01-12-2007, 05:22 PM

Ooh actually Volo might fill that third wolf spot. Thinking about that defense of Nogrod earlier and the fact that he turned up in Nogrod's innocent list from Day 1.

Holbytlass

01-12-2007, 05:54 PM

This happens alot in villages, the 'loud' ones point at each other and argue incessantly while the wolves coast on by. While we have the numbers on our side we should work our way from least posted to most.

Bofgrod
Thorin Angurielsheild
Dori88
Beornomien
Bomburlass
Orilin
Voloin
Meneltarbo Baggins
Runi son of Bjarne
Kathin
Valier the Grey
Bifur Fegalund

This is the order of posting as of this typing. I ask those that have superb analyzing take a look at the mid section on down-definitely the top four have been analyzed to death.

Meneltarmacil

01-12-2007, 06:13 PM

Well, looks like Kath beat me to the Nogrod analysis.

Plus, I've noticed another suspicious characteristic of Rune: his votes (Farael on Day One, Valier on Day Two) have both been relatively safe ones, at least at the time they were made.

I'm suspecting that Nogrod and Rune son of Bjarne are both wolves at this point, more so than before. If that's the case, we have one really loud wolf and one much quieter wolf, a good strategy for them. As for the third, I'm not sure what his/her playing style would be, probably something in between Nogrod's extreme loudness and Rune's relative silence. Of course, the last one could even be fairly silent, as many innocents are also being quiet.

Nogrod

01-12-2007, 06:20 PM

I had started to make some general remarks and trying to find fex. why I find Ang and Meneltarbo worrysome - and I try to come up with them somewhat later - but this just calls for some comments.

I'll only comment a few that I think need clarification - and through which I can make some general points. The rest I find just too far-fetched or insignificant to take up (and I don't want to make an essay of this and use the whole night [RL] on it).

Either we read English very differently Kathin (which is possible as this is not my native language anyhow), or then you're making a good job trying to twist and intentionally misread most of what I've said... I have not yet forgotten my suspicion of you.

About halves the village, suspecting those who had barely posted and thinking those who had posted more innocent.I think I never said I thought them more innocent. From what has passed this far - and it's early, no question about it - I would say that I would be highly reluctant to help with the lynching of Nori88, Dwalin Dwancing Spawn of Fundin, Durin the Deathless or Voloin as they have actually been playing the game with some openness. And looking at the latest, I should include our lord Thorin Anguirelshield to my list as he seemed to start making points.And this is a point of major difference. If we have people like Nori88, Spawn etc. in the game, why to lynch them on Day1 based on some pretty random accusations (as it normally, not everytime, goes)? What a loss to the village! If you're a wolf you would be very happy to get rid of outstanding players on Day1 randomness, surely.

And here I would also disagree with Ang's a bit too far-taken suspicion on Voloin's point about leaving myself and Nori to the Seer. I have other reasons to be a bit alarmed with Voloin as I stated yesterDay, but this I find only reasonable. Why kill the players who actually contribute a lot so long as we have a Seer to check them? I have been a bit laid back with Nori88 yesterDay and toDay as I wait for our Seer to come forwards one Day or another. Meanwhile we can concentrate on others just to make it sure we don't lynch a valuable villager ourselves. (Still three wolves left, so even if Nori is a wolf there are two others to catch - surely, if there would be a good reason to suspect Nori I would be the first to vote him, but this far I haven't seen one, at least big enough to take the risk) I hope this answers also to your point on #73 - and to be hones, have you seen a Seer who waits to collect all the three wolves until s/he reveals the knowledge? C'mon! Your comment smelled a wolf a hundred yards as I know you're an intelligent and an experienced player...

Post 63: Argues with Eomer saying that analysis is good on Day 1 as it heightens the chance of catching a wolf. Yes it does, but if a wolf is orchestrating the analysis it can lower the chance, and it was Nogrod who tried to move everyone away from the in-character stuff.I have not denied anyone else to do analysis - I don't have any mandate to require others not to analyse. Please! Is trying to move people away from pure in-character bantering a wolvish act? Really? Kathin, are you slipping again? From the villagers point of view getting rid of nonsense is good, from the wolves point of view it isn't. :rolleyes:

Post 88: Asks if anyone is willing to help lynch Eomer. It's so blatant, he wants Eomer dead. Would a wolf be that bold?No. Or should I say "that stupid"? I've said this before but if you don't read what I say, I say it again. Why on earth would a wolf risk that to get a certain innocent killed instead of another innocent (Glóanna was innocent too - but how about you?)? I mean, had it been Roa_Aoife or someone like her as another one and another innocent, then a wolf might have thought it important enough to take the risk of getting rid of exactly her, but really...

Post 96: Not sure what he's advising people to do, it almost looks like he's trying either to save Eomer or to get a double lynch. What were you up to Nogrod?Look again. I tried to remind that they should not lynch Dori or Spawn (who had 2 votes both) by leaving it even on 2 votes. Read the situation and you see it. So trying to twist things again now aren't you.

I mean that was the most cunningly wrong-read analysis I've ever seen (I only commented on the ones I thought were bad enough). Put on a time when she thought I would not be online anymore, now was it? Trying to maintain the suspicion on me with no fear of myself correcting the things or asking people to look at it themselves?

Sorry Kathin, you top my list still... and I do hope now that you're not a misguided innocent. But innocents admit their mistakes and turn the other way to actually help the village which side they're on. I have been insecure with you and a few times I have thought whether I should drop my suspicions. But after this one, I just can't.

Look at all the people who have been quick to back Kathin's zero-points. There I'm afraid, you will find one wolf more.

PS. I was already thinking that I shouldn't mave made this post as it's a bit over-reacting to points that have no merit and thence should not be even reacted, but as I now see how Meneltarbo has been swayed, I must say I needed to made it. But was there a need to sway Meneltarbo?

PS.2 Goddammit! Let me do some actual wolf-hunting for a while! 2.40AM here and I'm off to sleep. I'm sorry, the wolves swayed this Day over me and I was weak as I thougt I should defend to gain one more Day. Remember this later...

Kath

01-12-2007, 06:25 PM

Part two of the Nogrod analysis - and I've just seen that he posted a few minutes ago. Stay there Noggie! I'll answer you.

Day 2:
Post 114: Argues with Boro saying there was no more reason to kill Eomer than anyone else, so accusations of ring-leading and cunning are useless. Not entirely true. Eomer had left very little in the way of a trail and is known to be a fearsome opponent. If Nogrod is a wolf there was therefore quite some reason to kill Eomer over others, especially if he was planning on killing spawn during the Night, as this removes two very strong elements from the game. Also says Boro isn't making sense as he is saying Nogrod is both ring-leader and failing to take the initiative, but the two are different things. One can be a ring-leader without having to make decisions. Plant a few subtle seeds and then sit back and watch them grow. Nogrod waited for someone else to vote Eomer before he did, so not taking the initiative. He then explains what happened in the voting and says that were he a wolf he would have voted earlier. Well how helpful of him to tell us, we certainly won't suspect him if he now doesn't do that!

Post 116: Notes a typo.

Post 119: Thinks spawn was killed for her ability to analyse and because she left little in the way of a trail - very true. But he then says that she was a second choice, that the wolves must have thought someone else was being protected. What? Yes there's a Protector around (or was at the time) but that doesn't mean spawn wasn't their first choice to kill. If they thought she was the Seer or that she was too dangerous to stay alive they would want to kill her, and if the Protector had made himself useful then so be it, they'd go after her the next Night (assuming he couldn't protect the same person twice in a row). Odd thing to say. Says he will not focus on specific people in case they're innocent. Marvellous way of not leaving a trail eh?

Post 122: Replies to Boro's comment that it would be easy to get Eomer lynched in a sarcastic manner, presumably referring to the fact that Boro said he was clever. But again there is a difference. Even if it is easy to get Eomer lynched it takes a clever wolf to clear their tracks. Of course if that wasn't what Boro meant then it does make him look suspicious as there is confusion there.

Post 126: Says Menel is suspicious and that he's flip-flopping. We had this argument yesterDay and there seems little point in repeating it. To me what Menel said about this makes sense and it is Nogrod that is making a mountain out of a molehill not Menel. Also says Volo looks somewhat suspicious for supporting him.

Post 131: Continuation of that argument.

Post 134: And again.

Post 136: Thinks one of those who voted for Eomer may have been wolvish, specifically Volo since he thinks Lommy innocent. Points out that any suspicion of Gloanna and Kath disappeared due to the extensive analysis of the voting events from the previous Day. Seems to clear Gloanna and Boro and suspects Kath, Ang, Valier and Menel. Reasons for all of course.

Post 157: Gives a score update and asks for people to stop spreading votes.

Post 161: After being confronted by Boro about Gloanna Nogrod does an immediate flip-flop and decides that actually he does think she's guilty after all.

Post 163: Thinks it odd that everyone seems to be agreeing on certain aspects. Sudden suspicion of Rune and continuing suspicion of Menel and asks that we look at early voters the next Day. Did that happen? I've not read through much of toDay yet. Thinks Lommy yesterDay due to her reactions the Day before around the voting. Says he will vote Kath or Gloanna but will try to look at Valier and Volo too.

Post 167: Points out Gloanna's reaction to being suspected and thinks it odd.

Post 171: Thinks Volo wolvish because he's looking out for hidden signs, which as a wolf he would be doing in case his fellow wolves tried to give him advice. Fair point except that the wolves probably wouldn't contact each other on the thread since they can do it by PM just a few hours later.

Post 172: Says he too was thinking what Kitanna said was a confession of guilt.

Post 173: Voting update and says Kitanna's vote makes him think she's guilty.

Post 175: Mentions deadline.

Post 180: Having dropped suspicion of everyone else he votes Gloanna based on her last posts.

The sudden concentration on Gloanna is understandable, but then many people were doing this so it's hard to tell much from that. It seems less likely that Boro would be a fellow wolf, the arguments are just so vicious, but it is possible. Volo again seems possible as a conspirator too.

Durelin

01-12-2007, 06:37 PM

Definite Suspects:

Kath
Menel
Volo

Possible Suspects:

Valier
Rune
Thinlomien

Don't Care:

Durelin
Nilp
Boromir

(For Now) Possible Innocents:

Nogrod
Ang
Holby

Menel - I find it interesting that you're so gung ho to lynch Nogrod, but you'll shrug off an analysis because "oh, someone already did one." Do you trust Kath that much? Does she speak for you?

Thanks, Holby, it's interesting to see how much everyone has posted. I beg to differ that Lommy has really been looked at that closely, though...

From Day 1 I think it's possible that Boro or Ang could be fellow wolves if Nogrod is one, but I think it unlikely that both would be. I'm aware that leaves a third slot open, but from this I don't know who would fill that.

You're a better player than this, Kath. You're blindly going for the biggies. It's like what Boro said: something about a monkey being able to get people to lynch Eomer. Well, it's pretty darned easy to get people to lynch Nogrod, Boro, and Ang, too, because they all have a way with being at the center of things. And since we've got all three going at each other (if not all very seriously), it's even easier to rap up more suspicions of them.

If those three, or any one of them, is/are wolves...well, that's not good. But I think you're harping on them just for the sake of harping on them, stirring up "fear," because people see them as among the "big dogs," the good players, and so the nastiest wolves.

Actually, the nastiest wolves are the ones that go utterly unnoticed, and you're doing a good job keeping the attention off them, whether you mean to or not. And personally, I think you know what you're doing.

Edit: Cross-posted with Kath.

Kath

01-12-2007, 06:46 PM

Firstly Nogrod I am not trying to twist your words. I am biased because I believe you to be guilty, but there is no deliberate manipulation here.

I think I never said I thought them more innocent.
Here we do have a misunderstanding. I meant more innocent as in less possibly guilty than the others.

If we have people like Nori88, Spawn etc. in the game, why to lynch them on Day1 based on some pretty random accusations (as it normally, not everytime, goes)?
I have no argument about that. I don't believe I said anything about it at all.

and to be hones, have you seen a Seer who waits to collect all the three wolves until s/he reveals the knowledge?
It depends on the situation. A Seer very rarely reveals themselves before at least one wolf has been lynched because they don't have time to collect enough useful information before luck or analysis has found a wolf. In addition a Seer would normally only reveal if they were in danger or if they did have all the necessary information. Usually the Seer will wait until they have all the wolves still alive unless they are about to be lynched.

Please! Is trying to move people away from pure in-character bantering a wolvish act?
Not in the slightest. It's just that from you it feels wolvish.

Look again. I tried to remind that they should not lynch Dori or Spawn (who had 2 votes both) by leaving it even on 2 votes. Read the situation and you see it. So trying to twist things again now aren't you.
No. I didn't understand what you were doing so I asked, and I'm afraid I still don't. You didn't want Eomer lynched? Or you didn't want both of them lynched?

Nogrod, believe me, I can write an incriminating analysis without a shred of evidence to go on and fully aware that the person I am analysing is innocent, but that is not what I'm doing here. I am suspicious of you and I'm trying to work out why. I have to vote now and my vote will go to you because, as I believe you said, I have been very one-sided toDay and have focused entirely on you. This is due to a lack of time and the fact that if I don't take the time to look at you properly it will annoy me for the next few Days.

++ NOGROD

I have other suspects. Volo is one and Ang another. I was suspicious of Boro but that has abated recently, though if you do turn out to be innocent I will look at him again.

I'm sorry I have no time to analyse what Nogrod has said toDay. I will answer Durelin before I go but after that I won't be back.

Kath

01-12-2007, 06:49 PM

You're a better player than this, Kath. You're blindly going for the biggies. It's like what Boro said: something about a monkey being able to get people to lynch Eomer. Well, it's pretty darned easy to get people to lynch Nogrod, Boro, and Ang, too, because they all have a way with being at the center of things. And since we've got all three going at each other (if not all very seriously), it's even easier to rap up more suspicions of them.

If those three, or any one of them, is/are wolves...well, that's not good. But I think you're harping on them just for the sake of harping on them, stirring up "fear," because people see them as among the "big dogs," the good players, and so the nastiest wolves.

Actually, the nastiest wolves are the ones that go utterly unnoticed, and you're doing a good job keeping the attention off them, whether you mean to or not. And personally, I think you know what you're doing
I'm assuming that the role allocation was completely random, in which case it is entirely possible that the three loudmouths could indeed be the three wolves. Right? It's also possible that Valier, Rune and me are the wolves. There is no difference in the level of probability. And actually, it's extremely difficult to get someone like Boro lynched after Day 1 if there is no reason for it.

Anyway, til tomorrow all.

Meneltarmacil

01-12-2007, 07:06 PM

I'd already been somewhat suspicious of you before Kath had posted her analysis, Nogrod. Plus, she didn't mention the primary reason why I had thought you a wolf: The way Rune mentioned you.

I'm not going to take Kath entirely at her word right now, though. I'm probably going to vote for Rune son of Bjarne toDay. My posts about you have been mostly to do with Rune as well; I'm not totally gung-ho about lynching you, I simply find you to be suspicious in light of what Rune's been up to.

Keep in mind, though, that this whole Rune-Nogrod connection I've proposed is not the only line of reasoning I've been using against Rune.

Nogrod

01-12-2007, 07:06 PM

Kathin dear, you're getting me even more confused by now as I'd need to go to sleep really...

I can't see we're talking about the same posts! Just one before I go as it bears on some general things too...

Post 161: After being confronted by Boro about Gloanna Nogrod does an immediate flip-flop and decides that actually he does think she's guilty after all.Read the post itself and my comment on this same suspicion earlier toDay. And surely now you use the word flip-flop pretty mischievously. The villagers are ready to correct their suspicions the moment they think they were wrong because more important than to look streamlined and steady is that they don't get it wrong. The wolves can be consistent as they know the situation from the beginning. And please tell me, if I was a wolf, why should I have made that turn and get all the attention? Wouldn't I have just nicely voted someone else, like you (if there could be a chance you were innocent) and get away with it, looking consistent and therefore by your logic, innocent?

Sorry that I have no time to answer your answers. I do disagree them, though (surprise?).
But just look at the quality of your points:
Quote:
Please! Is trying to move people away from pure in-character bantering a wolvish act?

Not in the slightest. It's just that from you it feels wolvish.So? If you say that it is wolvish from me to call for serious discussion and begging people to stop the nonsense on Day1, I don't know with whom you have played before this. Not with me, anyway... But if you're a wolf you would try everything, trying to add all possible things, a bit believable and the bad just to make the oimpression there's a lots of stuff to be suspicious about. Wolf tactics, again...

PS.
Actually, the nastiest wolves are the ones that go utterly unnoticed, and you're doing a good job keeping the attention off them, whether you mean to or not. And personally, I think you know what you're doing.Exactly so. Being under pressure you're catering for your fellows, like Meneltarbo? Voloin? Okay, just questionmarks up to now. If I'm alive tomorrow I will at last have to look at them for good.

And I'm a bit uncomfortable with Ang also, but something of that later toDay as I have slept.

Meneltarmacil

01-12-2007, 07:19 PM

Well, I've tried to heed suggestions to look at people other then the argumentative ones, and Rune really does have some wolvish qualities to him. However, it seems that in our haste to argue over Nogrod, whom I mentioned as a possible co-conspirator, the main point of my message has been lost.

Rune son of Bjarne is probably a wolf. I'm letting Nogrod go for the moment, as Kath isn't particularly trustworthy and may be twisting some things.

I regret contributing to another set of duelists here. If someone has any insights on Rune, I'm perfectly willing to discuss them.

Rune Son of Bjarne

01-12-2007, 09:05 PM

WOW never have one person mentioned me so much and the rest been so quiet. . .facinating stuff.

And yes Boro, I do enjoy waching other people fight from the safty of the croud rather than being in there getting brused. The only problem is that there is actually a bigger responisbility when you just watch.

3 people gives me the creeps here, it is Boro, Ang and Nogrod. They are having a lot of quarrel between them and whenever I will side with one the other will bring up a good counter argument. One of them simply has to be a wolf, maybe more than one.

Boro did shoot after sparrows with cannons in his case against ang, but then Ang did use my words be on there extend, both things very wolfish things to do. Nogrod could be a bold wolf. . .well, he is always bold so of course he would be so as well as a wolf. He has an extrodinary talent of taking the lead of a group, it can be a bless or a course and often it is hard to tell the difference until the end.

If these are indeed the 3 wolves then I shall hail them for their boldness and level of cunningness, but chances are that there only one or none. As I said I belive there is atleast 1 wolf amongst them, but I could be wrong, I often am.

Now I will return to my corner and see how things play out.

Meneltarmacil

01-12-2007, 09:16 PM

Well, I doubt I'll be able to thoroughly read everything in the morning, so...

++Rune son of Bjarne

Boromir88

01-12-2007, 10:08 PM

I'm just going to wing out a bunch of random quotes that I find peculiar, maybe they can help me figure things out here...

One point of interest I have found deals with Dancing Spawn...I was going back through to see if there was anything in her posts that would get the wolves to kill her. At first I just thought they wanted to get rid of a good player, but now I'm not so sure:
I figured out, though, what was bugging me with Thorin, and perhaps even more with Eomi. Well, to some extend with Kathin, too. It's the odd phenomenon when people whom I know to be really smart seem to be dumbing down themselves. For example, I don't believe for one second that checking the admin thread for missing information or figuring out the twisted names would have been an impossible task for anyone here, but such behaviour makes it easier for wolves to approach other people and get into discussion.
Now it was Anguirel who came out and asked about the twins, Kath followed with a post that the twins were traitors, in which case Spawn (one of the twins) came back saying no they were for the villagers. I wonder if this was an attempt to draw out one of the twins.

A wolf (though I think an innocent would be concerned as well) would want to know about the twins. The problem is Spawn comes right out and explains it here, why were Ang and Kath 'dumbing down' they could have looked at the town records? It wouldn't have been all that difficult. When Spawn came out and pointed to them that no the twins weren't traitors for the wolves, perhaps that gave the wolves exactly what they wanted? They realized the twins were not on their side and perhaps that cued them in that Spawn was one of the twins.

This puts some bad light on Ang and Kath. I think Kath looks the most wolvish of the two. Ang I could imagine as an innocent asking such a question so we would know what we're up against. Kath though comes out and gives a false answer about them Saying:
From what I've heard the Twins are traitors, looking to their own survival only.
I wonder where she 'heard' this, as it certainly wasn't in the town records anywhere.

I'm thinking the wolves wanted to find out about the twins...well they could have checked the records if they wanted to know who's side they were on and what their purpose was. So, why come out and ask, unless to draw one of them out?

That's something I odd I found on Day 1, I'm going to go through Day 2...don't know if I'll get to it tonight or tomorrow morning.

Meneltarmacil

01-12-2007, 10:29 PM

Just checked back here. Boromir, I hadn't noticed that before, but it certainly looks suspicious to me. As I have already voted earlier, I can't change that decision now, but it's likely that one of those two is a Wolf, most likely Kath. Anguirel seems to be asking a legitimate question, but Kath's false answer could well be a ploy.

If Kath is indeed a wolf, it's likely that Nogrod is an innocent, unless she's trying to betray him in order to gain our trust.

Durelin

01-12-2007, 10:36 PM

Just popping in, unfortunately...

++Kath

And now it's off to bed...

Valier

01-12-2007, 10:57 PM

So I am pretty sure that two of the wolves are Balin and Nori (Kath and Rune) All the points about them that were brought up today are sound and I think they need to go now so that we won't be worried about them later. I am not so sure about the third wolf as of yet. I think either the last wolf is a very loud and very bold furry fiend or they're the one that slips under the radar.
Some people are not here today and that makes it hard to get a grasp on them.....and then theres Nilp. Ok so what is so great about Nilp that he can just scrape by with a post a day and everyone pretty much leaves him out of everything assuming he is innocent. I purpose that we lynch Nilp after Kath and Rune. He is of no help and there is that "He has to be innocent" thing.

++Balin(Kath)

Boromir88

01-12-2007, 11:01 PM

Here comes a bunch of other things I'm just winging out here.

I think I hastily called Thinlos vote for Eomi the most innocent looking one. Holby pointed out she disagreed and now here's what's strange about it.

Post 82 at 9:59 (my time):
I have to vote soon, and I'm not yet sure who I will vote. Most probably Glóanna or Kathin, unless rereading gives me some new, splendid idea or a I notice something remarkable.
Then post 91 10:19:
I'm quite at loss. Kathin and Glóanna don't seem as suspicious to me as they seemed before (though I still think they're both a bit suspicious), but I don't particularly suspect anyone else either.
20 minutes is a short time to suddenly change feelings. The various posts in between these two times I didn't see any one post a defense of Kath or Kitanna that might have made Thinlo uneasy. In fact Spawn said in there that both made her troubled. I wonder what made Thinlo just suddenly switch over in such a short amount of time? In Post 82 she seems to make a strong point that unless something really dramatic happens she's going to vote for Kitanna or Kath, 20 minutes later, I wouldn't say anything happening in between that time 'dramatic' she suddenly changed and ended up voting for Eomi.

Post 150 the next day she comes out to explain her voting. Seems kind of reasonable but I can't get past the fact that she seemed convinced on voting for Kath and Kitanna then something a few posts later (and 20 minutes) quickly changer her mind . Also in 150 by her own admission:
Errr... how? I've been evil just once, and I was a Fenris Wolf... Weird statement.
Would this make it your second time Thinlo?

Now about Nogrod here...I'm always going to be worried about him, but now he just seems innocent me. As a wolf Nogrod I would expect to stay calm, relaxing, and suave. Indeed he had me absolutely and completely fooled, because he was very friendly as a wolf. When my grand-daddy was the Seer he warmed up to him perfectly and even voted for wolf partners in getting them lynched. Point being, as a wolf he had a charm and friendliness about him...as looking quite fair.

This time he strikes me as being more defensive, he seems unafraid, and getting frustrated. I sense a genuine frustration about so far this village being completely lost. It could be that he's changing up his style from his ancestors, but the friendly suck-up worked so well for him as a wolf, I don't see why he wouldn't go for that again. Nogrod if you have fooled me again, from now on any future village my children get in with yours I will make sure they lynch you on Day 1. Mark my words.

Kath is a very methodical player, she definitely loves analyzing posts, she always seems calm and collected. And that's what she's done so far today. But for the past two days from what I've seen, she's just been after Nogrod. Hmm...

Well honestly now I am going to get some sleep so I can get up early enough to finish scrounging through the past few days.

Edit: x-ed with Valier...what you've said about Nilp makes me think you're innocent. Unless we see something from Nilp I definitely agree with. Only the wolves would want to keep around Nilp.

Nogrod

01-13-2007, 01:51 AM

A few thoughts with a head that has barely waken up.

I agree with Nori88 with his points on Anguirenshield earlier on the Day. Ang hasn't been contributing a lot to aid in our decisions but has been quick to critizise the decisions made - and happy to show how he disliked the choises (his overtime appearance on Day1 one to lament over Eomi's lynching still bugs me somewhat).

Anguirenshield seems to be making a lot from Voloin's statement that the Seer should do the job of catching the identity of myself and Nori88. So much as to call it defeatism. In the same time he goes on advising the Seer to keep quiet. Now I wonder what is this all? And why was Valier the Grey so happy to jump the waggon? I would have awaited much more thorough and independent thought from a wizard...

What I find disturbing indeed: the way both Meneltarbo Baggins and Valier the Grey tend to jump in with whatever is said, like windvanes. Although I do admit that Meneltarbo has his personal points on Runi which I find quite reasonable. Indeed Runi's playing style doesn't feel good: he posts regularly but doesn't say very much in his posts and is more than happy to declare that he will be on the side and just look at things from his "corner".

I'm still of the opinion that someone should take a look at how the waggons of different lynching campaigns have formed toDay and yesterDay and to look at the "early voters" as I called already yesterDay. I have come in on both these Days some hours after the Day has started and found myself under quite heavy fire in both cases. I would really like to have time to see how that has come about and who built it. If I'm alive toMorrow, I will be looking at that closely - but someone else could do that already toDay.

I had totally forgotten that it was indeed Kathin that started the talking about the twins. That would be a clever trap indeed! Saying openly that the twins are baddies and wait to see if someone comes to confidently correct that. It's no proof for the wolves that the one in question is another of the twins but it's a good chance. And as it turned out to be Spawn, there could be seen a really good place for a try. And they indeed succeeded.

Still as the moment of my vote draws near I'm getting my doubts again. Maybe Kathin is just too monomaniac to be a wolf? Could that be? She's been drawing a lot of suspicion during the last hours and as I've said before I'm not very happy with this open waggons...

Unfortunately I have to vote and I have no time to make a better case to raise someone over her on my suspicions toDay.

++Kathin

I'm leaning towards thinking Beornómien and Nori88 being innocent, but would really like to have a confirmation on that from the Seer one Day. If the Seer dies soon, I will immediately start watching them very closely, but as long as the Seer is alive I'll be giving them the benefit of doubt and just hope they're innocents.

I hope to see you lynching a wolf and seing you toMorrow. I think I'm asking a lot, but one can always hope...

Holbytlass

01-13-2007, 05:40 AM

Thanks, Dori88, for a better explanation as to why Lommy's vote isn't as innocenet as it appears.
I don't see Dori88 or Nogrod as wolvish. I don't buy that both are wolves and both are trying to gain the villagers' trust by getting the other lynched. The fight between them is so heated that I would think a wolf would've backed off by now. I see both as innocents trying to prove themselves right.

++Lommy

Thinlómien

01-13-2007, 06:40 AM

Hullo all!

I'm growing restless about Menel. Every thing he says makes me restless and wary. He really seems quite wolvish. Like Nogrod already said, his jumping on every suspicion he (Menel) notices. Unlike Nogrod, I don't give credit to his suspicion of Rune. Isn't that just the most wolvish thing about him? He agrees with about every bigger suspicion presented in the village, but then slimes away from taking sides and choosing which one to follow, and votes for someone he himself thinks suspicious, who is not generally suspected too much? I mean, he makes a safe vote, but agrees with enough suspicions to seem "reasonable" in the eyes of other villagers and to "keep in good terms" with others. He worries me a lot.

Boro has good points, especially that one about Kath. I'm inclined to believe him innocent.

Ang kind of worries me too. His referral to Kitanna's lat word and slight suggestion that Boro might be guilty in the same sentence just makes me scream "wolf!". Who else but a wolf would really take such words too seriously, or use them to his own advantage?

20 minutes is a short time to suddenly change feelings. The various posts in between these two times I didn't see any one post a defense of Kath or Kitanna that might have made Thinlo uneasy. In fact Spawn said in there that both made her troubled. I wonder what made Thinlo just suddenly switch over in such a short amount of time?If you wish to know, what I did in that 20 minutes: I quickly reread the village through, especially Kitanna's and Kath's posts.

As to the two main suspects today:
Kath seems pretty suspicious, but I think Menel (and possibly Ang too) look worse.
Nogrod is still in my "grey zone". There are some valid points against him, but I'd lean him to be more in the innocent side. His frustration of having to use the little time he has to defend himself instead of discussing theories and making analyses seems genuine enough and I think he has valid points in his defence (though his defence is partly reatliatory attack against Kath.)

I also bring you a message from Volo (I know him from RL). He told me: "Tell the villagers (if you have a computer at your disposal), that it's very unprobable that I will be speaking [at all]. And forbid them from killing [me]!" Now, before you jump on him because of that last sentence (for I assume it may sound wolvish to some), I must say that is very like him and his sense of humour, so I don't see it as too incriminating. (Which does not mean I think him innocent.)

I'm afraid I must leave and vote pretty soon.

Rune Son of Bjarne

01-13-2007, 06:57 AM

So Valier suspects me because of my playing style. . .acording to her I am more helpfull than normally.

Nogrod sais he agrees. . .but acording to him I post regular, but do not say much. I just can't win can I?

anyways I am hardly suprised by Nogrod he always suspects my family, I guess it is because I play so much differently from what he does.

I have never been a person to make the long and very analytic posts and francly I do not have much desire to do so. I do belive that they can be helpfull, but when they become the norm I find them more confusing than helpful.

Anyways my suspicions remain the same, Nogrod, Boro and Ang are still topping the list.They have a way of of twisting words into their own advantage and to steer this group in the direction they wish.

I still am uneasy about Valier, but less so and if she is a wolf I would rate her as a less dangoures one. So I will leave her be until I know more about the trio.

Menel I still am thinking that he is innocent, but I am not as sure as before. The reason I thought that he was innocent was because I could relate to what he said and of course I have problems with relating to wanting me dead.

Thinlómien

01-13-2007, 07:15 AM

Just a few things...
Ang, if you've not noticed, I crossposted with Nogrod last evening, so that we actually voiced the thought of Kit confessing the same time.

Would this make it your second time Thinlo?No, this isn't/wouldn't. :)

Ommmm....

++KATH

Why am I not voting Menel, who I just a while ago named my top suspect? (I'm telling this to you already today so that I don't have to use my time to it tomorrow... :rolleyes: )
1. I'm pretty confident that a wolf-Menel is easier to catch from a slip/flip-flop than a wolf-Kath, and thus she poses a greater threat than he.
2. The Menel-vote wouldn't probably affect anything. I doubt there's enough serious Menel-suspectors to get him lynched, and the vote wouldn't even work as a pressure-inserter, as he won't (or so it seems) be back toDay.
3. I dislike throwing votes in all directions. (This is closely related with the previous point.)
4. I wouldn't be too glad to see Nogrod go toDay, as his points are always soimething to think of and as he isn't looking too bad right now, and by voting Kath I'm making the gap between Kath and Nogrod smaller and thus making it more difficult for the Nogrod-suspectors to get him lynched.

May we lynch a wolf toDay, otherwise it's looking quite bad for us indeed...

Anguirel

01-13-2007, 07:26 AM

Analysis of Bomburlass

Triggered by Bofgrod’s apparent assumption of her innocence (which at this stage, pre-analysis, I broadly agree with)

#23 – in-character banter with Orilin

#56 – reasonable and practical criticism of Farael’s plan to lynch those who don’t contribute – a plan he often puts forward in some form.

#74 – finds Gloanna’s guilt statistically unlikely. Votes spawn for being too diplomatic.

#106 – voting record; suspects Beorn. Most substance so far.

#109 – thinks spawn was “a safe kill”.

#115 – disagrees with Voloin about spawn’s supposed Twin clue

#117 – further categorises voting. Suspects the inconspicuous. Maybe a bit rich?

#151 – picks up Valier’s use of “special role”

#155 – votes for Beorn in the belief that she tried to save a fellow wolf (not clear who).

#186 – mourns Farael, tries narrowing down suspects

#187 – points out pronoun inconsistency.

#189 – dismisses Farael’s posts

#233 – votes Beorn. Wrongly describes Bofgrod and Nori’s quarrel as too heated to be feigned; they’ve just, with apparent reluctance, declared each other innocent. Reminds me of the Rapallo Pact...

In conclusion – I do believe in Bomburlass’s innocence; she is consistent, thorough, her statistics are helpful and her thinking is clear. However, I suspect she is being used by some more vocal than she, especially, and I’m sorry to get back on a hobby-horse, Bofgrod. I intend to lay out some of my worst misgivings about him and then, probably, vote for him.

Rune Son of Bjarne

01-13-2007, 07:34 AM

hmmm who to vote for. . . I will go for Ang as I will regard it less of a mistake if he is an ordo, than if Nogrod or Boro was lynched.

++Anguirenshield

Anguirel

01-13-2007, 07:41 AM

Why kill the players who actually contribute a lot so long as we have a Seer to check them? I have been a bit laid back with Nori88 yesterDay and toDay as I wait for our Seer to come forwards one Day or another. Meanwhile we can concentrate on others just to make it sure we don't lynch a valuable villager ourselves.

What makes a "valuable villager", Bofgrod?

Not necessarily a verbose one, I can tell you that. Some of our players, myself included, could publish books of werewolf wisdom if they wanted but have had catastrophic careers!

Instituting some kind of elite where the loudest float about on bubbles of each other's esteem, and only the riff-raff are considered voteworthy bar the Seer's intervention, is, and I will not back down from this, utter madness. It places a lot of power in the hands of a vulnerable Seer who may already have been correctly identified by wolves last night. And it's a dangerous principle anyway.

If you really believed that you and, say, Nori had a right to walk free of suspicion, then you would be very pompous. Instead, though, I think you have an ulterior motive.

What about this bizarre tiff with Nori you've had? Agreed on that I am at best flaky and at worst demonic, you snap at each other for a little and then, stroking your beards, call a gruff stalemate and go back to scowling at me again. This phoney war looks to me like a dance on the part of one party or possibly both.

Anguirel

01-13-2007, 07:47 AM

I will vote in half an hour. In the meantime, I'd be very interested to see a rebuttal.

Boromir88

01-13-2007, 07:51 AM

It places a lot of power in the hands of a vulnerable Seer who may already have been correctly identified by wolves last night.~Anguirelshield
How do you know the Wolves targeted the Seer last night? Or that's who they believe they had?

I may still vote for you yet Ang, with comments like that one.

Anguirel

01-13-2007, 08:04 AM

Oh, come on. Hadn't that occurred to anyone else? I made a slightly more subtle reference to exactly this problem in my "lament for the dead" post that you despised so much. I believe in honesty - the Seer may be in great danger and we can't rely on them to do our detective work for us.

Boromir88

01-13-2007, 08:18 AM

It just looks like you and Nogrod are trying to stir up Seer talk with a little over an hour left of voting.

I hate your first post of the day because it looks sneaky. You give some congrats than warn us that we're in danger. You advise the Seer to stay hidden unless he/she feels their in danger.

Whether it's what we're all thinking or not, I don't care. I don't want this last hour diverging into talking about the Seer and whether the Seer is the next one. And I'm gonna call out anybody who does.

Our task is to get a wolf, not argue about what the Seer's job is. The Seer knows their job and I trust the Seer to be able to do their job as they see fit.

Anguirel

01-13-2007, 08:25 AM

Exactly. But to trust the Seer to the extent that we give up on thinking outside the box ourselves, which is what Bofgrod suggests? Ludicrous.

Which is why I must now vote -

++BOFGROD

I think this is unlikely to succeed, but I wholeheartedly hope it does, after all, find its mark.

Nilpaurion Felagund

01-13-2007, 08:25 AM

I don't know about you people, but I believe this post (http://69.51.5.41/showpost.php?p=505267&postcount=179) of Volo is too hairy for my taste. In fact, I'll dispense with my usual vote analysis and just tell you what I think this post tells me:

1) If we strip it down to the only thing he cannot twist (i.e., his vote), he just looks like he's joining a rolling bandwaggon. Bloody Angamandi, he even said so in that post.

2) If we do look at his 'good and bad' list, we see nothing but an echo of almost everyone's sentiment (everyone that is heard, that is. ;) ) It may be a coincidence that his own thoughts matches the overall mood, or that he is convinced by the arguments presented, but it just feels too . . . safe.

Having said this, I'll do what I can. Maybe we'll still have a chance to lynch him today.

++Volo

Oh, and finally, some suspicion on me. Having missed a DAY 1 angry mob chanting my name, I find the little attention welcome. :D

Some people are not here today and that makes it hard to get a grasp on them.....and then theres Nilp. Ok so what is so great about Nilp that he can just scrape by with a post a day and everyone pretty much leaves him out of everything assuming he is innocent. I purpose that we lynch Nilp after Kath and Rune. He is of no help and there is that "He has to be innocent" thing. (Valier)My dear, let me remind you that I live in a developing country, and a lot that you take for granted over there in the West is a luxury to us. I'm just scraping time between going to school, attending to the welfares of a level 103 dex-type archer, following my curfew, and finding a half-decent internet café that won't burn holes in my pocket to get online for a few hours.

So sorry to talk about this, but every time I play with Valier this issue just gets taken up.

Well, you're probably right about me being under-the-radar, but I'm not stealthy. Your (pl.) detection platforms may have a problem. I'm broadcasting my opinions pretty loud and clear in the few posts I can make.

Thank you for questioning me, though. Considering that everyone else's attention's pretty much on the loudmouths, this request for circumspection seems an innocent move. :)