Werewolf XXX - Tol-in-Elendili - The Isle of the Were-Faithfuls

[Hookbill the Goomba]

I've had a quick look over some of the Brinniel voters and have had an interesting thought...

Legate's game play has suddenly struck me as... unnerving. He seemed at first to be wading into arguments and acting almost as a mediator or neutral party which subconsciously put him in my trust pile. This, it seems to me, may well be a trick. Legate seems very calculated but some things in his posts don't seem right to me as he always seems to be acting the third party unless directly invited to defend himself or accuse someone.
Although, he seems to be retaining his usual posting style, which can be expected, but this too could be a front and he could be triking us into thinking he's normal when he's not. But then he could be normal and he is acting normal and everything I've just said is rubbish. Or it could be... erm... that... I've lost myself, sorry.

My suspicions remain of Manwe but less at the moment. He's made some good points recently but still remains in my 'suspect list'. The Saucepan Man, however has moved up for reasons not comprehensible. I have to go with a hunch at the moment as I cannot see anything specific in his posts to suggest wolfship. I'll keep my eyes open and have a think...

[Mithalwen]

Oh for godness sake ... either I my vote is from nowhere and I am bandwaggoning or I am monomaniac... I can't be both ..though I would say neither.. I have suspected Lalaith since Day one and have had no reason to doubt that suspicion.

[Nogrod]

Now for the reasaons why I thought Lalaith made good points.

First of all she shared my initial suspicions and that always feels nice. :)

But I must say I'm aware that she might have done that deliberately to get me defend her position. That is possible.

But also Spm's defence was a bit fishy. Like him denying the ratio of the suspects turning out innocents. In there I think Lalaith actually had a point which indeed fits nicely with the little detail I noticed on Day1 where he twice reminded us of his history of being a serial voter-of-gifteds so nicely undermining his future track record?

But why I still think there might be a point in suspecting the trio (tgwbs, Durelin and Saucie) is their relative distancedness in this game. I mean they all have been in the middle of the game as doers and as those who have been talked about. Still there seem to be relatively few instances where they have said anything about each other. That is not counting the odd row over Durelin defending Spm toDay - in which Spm's point looked a bit fabricated to be honest.

But anyhow they seem to be nicely detached. Like good Faithfuls would be.

Also I find it odd that tgwbs wishes us to go for a blind lynch of Gil. That can't be in our best interests. Funny then that after I said half-jokingly that we should not lynch anyone of these three (in a moment when no one else seemed to post anything) Spm was only too happy to ask me if I would like to suggest trying to pick a silent one... And as a minor detail also Durelin commented on the familiar Noggie annoyed by those silent to be back after I had made a side-comment on the fact that I didn't like the quietness of this village back then.

See also these:
I think it impossible that a Cobbler would accuse somebody they think to be a wolf. About their innocent feelings, they might be more honest, but they have no interest in accusing potential-wolves.On the contrary. I wouldn't like to get bogged down into this but I do think you're giving us bad advices all the time, just like a Faithful would love to do. Why would a cobbler wish to be so readable? Not to say a cobbler as crafty as Roa is? Maybe you are a mathematician (even if I disagree with some of your maths...) and see the world as a clear and simple thing?

Just like everyone else, I don't read every post on the thread. So lynch me.Even though some points in Kath's last post kind of shows that she hasn't read all toDay (and with a rushed day one can understand it) but I just don't believe this from you. So why do you say so?

I might go for one of these people, but I'm trying to widen my scope a bit before it's time to vote. Lalaith I'm unsure of and Kath just freaks me out... not to talk of Kitanna's last vote that just looks sooo fishy!

[Mithalwen]

I don't know what happened with Manwe but if he does not vote to day he is out.

Also notice that Gil is making sure he does enough to stay in .. but not a lot more.... not sure how to read this.

[Nogrod]

Also notice that Gil is making sure he does enough to stay in .. but not a lot more.... not sure how to read this.Have you seen him playing differently? Well I indeed saw him different once but that was a story I wouldn't like to recall...

But there just might be a point here. He posts seldomly as always and gives basically no reasons to his votes but somehow his last post made me think it twice (my first reaction was: "why did he post and made a point!" - although I tend to agree with his point) and now as you noted it. Hmm...

But okay here we are now:
Gil - > tgwbs
Lommy - > Durelin
Tgwbs - > Gil
Spm - > Lalaith
Mith - > Lalaith (tgwbs1, Durelin1, Gil1, Lalaith2)
Kitanna - > Lalaith (tgwbs1, Durelin1, Gil1, Lalaith3)
Kath - > Spm (tgwbs1, Durelin1, Gil1, Lalaith3, Spm1)

I know I may be now on a monomaniac drive myself but I just can't help recognising that tgwbs has yet again produced a vote with which he stays out of any heated debates and as a vote of retaliation it's pretty much the safest there is... I just don't like this. I mean if he is a Faithful he really plays nicely and just for that reason he's dangerous.

Back to widening the scopes then as this was no good as yet...

[The Saucepan Man]

Gah! I can live with your suspicions, Noggie, but you could at least have reasonable reasons for suspecting me. I swear that, if I did not know better, I would be voting for you as a Faithful. :rolleyes:

Like him denying the ratio of the suspects turning out innocents.I did not deny the ratio. I merely set out the facts, namely that it was the same for all of us, and pointed out the holes in Lalaith's reasoning, which you seem, dangerously, to have ignored.

That is not counting the odd row over Durelin defending Spm toDay - in which Spm's point looked a bit fabricated to be honest.It made me wonder, particularly given that she has been one of my main suspects for a while now.

But anyhow they seem to be nicely detached.I'll admit that I was, reluctantly, rather detached for the first two Days, thanks to work. But, since then, I have been doing my utmost to find the Faithfuls. Perhaps you would like to review my lengthy analyses?

Funny then that after I said half-jokingly that we should not lynch anyone of these three (in a moment when no one else seemed to post anything) Spm was only too happy to ask me if I would like to suggest trying to pick a silent one..I was questioning whether it would be in the village's best interests, as I felt that it was probably too risky, given our situation. I share your concerns over TGWBS's vote for Gil, however, and will be giving that some attention if I am still here toMorrow.

I am not inclined to change my vote, unless I am in danger, as I have seen nothing to dissuade me from my belief that Lalaith is a Faithful. Quite the contrary. So, unless anything radcial happens, it stands.

[Mithalwen]

Well he seems to be making a bit more of an effort than usual .... but is that because he has a bigger part to play?.... I think it unlikely he will be killed at night though whatever he says.... if he is innocent he is seldom completely trusted....

Gah 13 players, 1 known innocent, 2 gifted, 4 faithful, one seemingly heading for removal.... lets hope the ranger took a calculated risk and left you unguarded last night Noggin.... cos the Faithful are getting to the point that even if we spot them ..we will have a job out voting them....

[Nogrod]

Btw. if the Ranger didn't get my hints yesterDay or didn't dare to risk not protecting me last Night (which is quite natural, I've been in the situation myself and it's a hard decision) I would just like to remind you of one more thing.

I've been talking a lot of Spm, tgwbs and Durelin. Not without a cause I think. But also remember that there were some funny things in the beginning of the game involving Kath and Lommy with Mänwe. I do hope Mänwe comes back but if he doesn't we'll here what he was soon enough. And if he was a Faithful, look at those defending him (at least Kath and Lommy)

I'm not very happy with this lynching Lalaith-thing. Bandwaggons that appear out of thin aikr are always to be suspected I'd say. From that I've got a worst feeling about Kitanna.

Okay. I've suspected more than half of the village... So little help you seem to have from your known innocent. :confused:

But maybe you should look tomorrow for the fact that which people could be related to each other or which might just cancel each other out? The Faithfuls can afford suspecting each others by now and if they're wise they'd probably done that already. Just looking at the spread of the votes thus far makes me feel pretty insecure. THey are surely having the upper hand now.

But we'll (you'll) fight!

[Hookbill the Goomba]

No idea who is a faithful. But my instincts keep telling me that the right honorable Saucepan Man is a fishy fellow. I wish I had something concrete to go on but all I have is a hunch. His posts are always very good and interesting as is wont with old Sauceie, but here there is something of an odd air to it.
So, before I wander off to other lands...

++ The Saucepan Man

No hard feelings, master Pan? :(

[Nogrod]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogrod
But anyhow they seem to be nicely detached.

I'll admit that I was, reluctantly, rather detached for the first two Days, thanks to work. But, since then, I have been doing my utmost to find the Faithfuls. Perhaps you would like to review my lengthy analyses?Sorry. The language stuff again (or was this a deliberate misunderstanding?). I meant you have ignored each other, not that you haven't involved yourselves with the game...

I share your concerns over TGWBS's vote for Gil, however, and will be giving that some attention if I am still here toMorrow.

I am not inclined to change my vote, unless I am in danger, as I have seen nothing to dissuade me from my belief that Lalaith is a Faithful. Quite the contrary.It's always toMorrow when the Faithful will vote for his fellow...? :p

[Nogrod]

Let's see if there is any support for this.

++ tgwbs

I'm ready to reconsider with better points brought forwards...

[Nogrod]

Gil - > tgwbs
Lommy - > Durelin
Tgwbs - > Gil
Spm - > Lalaith
Mith - > Lalaith (tgwbs1, Durelin1, Gil1, Lalaith2)
Kitanna - > Lalaith (tgwbs1, Durelin1, Gil1, Lalaith3)
Kath - > Spm (tgwbs1, Durelin1, Gil1, Lalaith3, Spm1)
Hookbill - > Spm (tgwbs1, Durelin1, Gil1, Lalaith3, Spm2)
Nogrod - > tgwbs (tgwbs2, Durelin1, Gil1, Lalaith3, Spm2)

[Lalaith]

Well, I'm (understandably) torn between tgwbs and Saucie.

I've been getting more and more convinced of Saucie's guilt but I think there's something ignoble about voting for someone who voted for you.

++TGWBS

[Durelin]

I return. *flourish*

Even though some points in Kath's last post kind of shows that she hasn't read all toDay (and with a rushed day one can understand it) but I just don't believe this from you. So why do you say so?

Eh? First, what does Kath have to do with whether or not I read all the posts in the thread; and second...just, why? Why is saying that I don't read all of the thread suspicious now? I don't even read all of the posts in the RPGs I'm in normally, so there's no way I'm going to be reading all the posts in WW games. :p

And my comment about you going after the silent ones? Well, I feel the way you have been playing the large part of this Day is pretty uncharacteristic of you. Actually it reminds me of that time Lommy as the Seer caught you as a Wolf. Do I suggest systematically lynching the silent types? No. But I don't suggest ignoring them either.

Both you and Sauce are having a field day going for whatever you can get on me. It's really rather sad. We know you're innocent, though, so perhaps Sauce is the real danger.

I have not liked the feel of Lalaith, and I think her voting has been very strange, but I find Kitanna's suddenish vote for her pretty odd. Mith's behavior toDay is far less out there to me than yesterDay's, and I'm feeling a little better about her. I wonder, too, why people see this Lalaith thing as out of nowhere. Kitanna's vote is a little sudden, but both SPM and Mith I recall having suspected her for a while, particularly Mith.

Hookbill's still not making very solid accusations, but I do agree with him on Legate. Where is he, anyway? Will we have another last minute vote from him?

Personally, I am generally more confident in my hunches about who is innocent than my hunches about who is a wolf, so I often vote to save rather than to lynch.

That quote from Lalaith makes her feel more innocent to me. So both Lalaith and Mith have been bumped down on my suspicion list, leaving me with SPM, Lommy, and Legate.

The way Lommy jumped on Nogrod's attack against me, even though she had been suspecting me for a while, makes me rather uneasy of her. It's such a prime opportunity for a wolf to both look consistent and have the sort of *stamp of approval* of a known innocent. Though he wasn't on my *original list*, the way TGWBS jumped on Nogrod's making note of the silence of the village and turned it into a lynch the silents campaign is pretty unnerving, too, but he had gone after Gil before Nogrod's comments, as well.

I need to vote...SPM or Legate? SPM's loud-mouthedness is perhaps better to have around than Legate sneaking around. A Saucepan Wolf might well be a little less...beligerent? than he's being right now, though I suppose only his death will tell. My brain says SPM, my gut says Legate. ToDay seems to be the Day for going with gut votes, so:

++Legate

Edit: Cross-posted with a bunch of posts...that took way too long to write, and now the deadline is very near. No chance of lynching Legate, so...hrmmm...*thinks*

[Nogrod]

Check your vote again Durelin, please. If not, you others should remark this safe-vote toMorrow...

With eight minutes left it's either Lalaith, Spm or tgwbs...

[Durelin]

--Legate

++SPM

Brains wins again. :rolleyes: ;)

Edit: Crossed, again, with Nog

[Durelin]

Wait...that makes only three for SPM? A three way tie, or is there going to be more last minute dash-ins and switching?

[Nogrod]

If I have it right Lalaith, Legate and Mänwehaven't voted yet...

Lalaith 3
Spm3

Lalaith had them first though.

[Lalaith]

I voted for guy.
But I want to live. Sob.
++SAUCEPANMAN

--GUY

[Mithalwen]

Lalith has voted ..
I think TGWBS is innocent and the others are guilty... but more certain of Lalaith

[Macalaure]

Deadline

You have lynched the faithful who be short.

It was about time you got one of 'em. :p


edit: Yes, I'm letting Lalaiths vote retractions count.

[Mithalwen]

Is that a legal vote retraction ?

[Mithalwen]

Not that SPM isn't better qualified to launch his own appeal .....

[The Saucepan Man]

Actually, to be honest, I think that I was lynched ... :confused:

[Macalaure]

:eek:

oh f...

[Hookbill the Goomba]

:eek:

Don't feel bad, Macalaure, we all make mistakes. *Ruffles through pocket* Here, have a jellybaby (http://i3.tinypic.com/43hbk93.jpg).

[Mithalwen]

*wibble*

Jelly babies and the Divine Right of Mods will get you through...

[Macalaure]

Ever the days on Númenor were changeful and hard-fought in these times, but none the less the days that had just passed stood out. A whole of three people were leading the race and it was close. In the end, however, there was not the slightest doubt that the guy who be short was the one who should be lynched. The univocal will of the village dictated it, nothing else. Absolutely nothing.

“The choice has been made, the guy who be short.” declared Gil-Galad “Now forswear that phantom Eru, and his lackey Manwë, or face your death!”

“Why should I forswear Eru? I am no Faithful!” protested the guy who be short “Moreover, I have a feeling you are going to kill me anyway!”

“If you renounce Eru and Manwë and accept Melkor and Annatar as your gods, then your life will be spared.” he was assured by Kitanna “But you must choose now!”

“I love my life, and all Arda and Númenóre even as it is now,” the guy who be short then answered sadly “but if I must choose between Sauron and Manwë, then all else must come after. I will not bow unto Sauron, nor to his master!”

A spirit, grim but clean, shone in his eyes as he was grabbed by Durelin and Kath.

“What now shall we do with him? How do we want this Faithful to die?” asked the Saucepan Man, but nobody answered him and a silence befell all. Nobody had given this a thought until now.

Shyly, Thinlómien spoke up: “What about a catapult?”

“A catapult?” all asked disbelievingly.

“Why not hurl the guy who be short out of Númenor? Let him fly from the Land of the Star, just like his fellows – or almost.”

“That’s retarded” Nogrod judged.

“Well, I don’t see you coming up with anything.” Thinlómien said finally, and so it was decided.

The knowledge and craft of Númenor was still high in these days, so the catapult was built together in little time. Still, it had grown dark when they were finished and the guy who be short was placed in the machine. No star shone on the island in these moments, as if the Valar were turning their eyes away from this fell deed.


“Ready!... Steady!...”

“I can’t believe we’re doing this.” muttered Nogrod.

“Go!”


And in a beautifully high arc, which delighted his mathematical senses for the short time, the guy who be short flew from the Land of the Star - with no star to guide him. The guy who be short never again was seen among living Men, and his fate this tale does not tell.

“See! It worked! It worked! Let’s do it again!” said Thinlómien enthusiastically, “What about Mänwe?”

In exaltation over their success the Númenoreans cheered and went to Mänwe’s hut searching for him.

While the village was coming for him, Mänwe was a picture of misery: “Faithfuls! Faithfuls! They’re coming! They’re everywhere! I can’t take this pressure! Ahhh!”

“Mänwe, we have come to lynch you.” the Legate of Amon Lanc told him “Well, we didn’t exactly vote you... but we’re in a really good mood right now. You surely understand.”

“Lynch me? Ah! I’m no Faithful, Faithful, Faithful!”

“We know,” answered Hookbill, the Goomba “but, you know, you had your chances, and you failed us twice.”

Lamenting Mänwe was dragged up the hill and put into the catapult.


“Ready!... Steady!...”

“I still think it’s retarded.” it came over Nogrod’s lips.

“Go!”


But, oh! it did not work this time. The structure of the catapult failed and in a loud noise it crashed and drilled Mänwe straight into the ground. Sheepishly, Thinlómien looked around and reproachful her eyes were met.


“Fine, I still think it’s a good idea!”


*~*


The Dead:

Macalaure (mod) - brutally killed by Faithfuls in Night One
Garin (ordo) - decapitated with a scythe on Day One
Holbytlass (ordo) - committed suicide to revive Garin in Night Two
The Might (ordo) - committed suicide to help Holbytlass reviving Garin in Night Two
Roa_Aoife (Tar-Míriel / cobbler) - stabbed to death on Day Two
Rikae (High Priest of Annatar / seer) - killed and reformed into a ship by Faithfuls in Night Three
Glirdan (ordo) - another one who committed suicide to revive Garin
Brinniel (ordo) - executed on Day Three
Rune Son of Bjarne (ordo) - disassembled by the Faithfuls in Night Four
the guy who be short (were-faithful) - flew from the Land of the Star with no star to guide him on Day Four
Mänwe (ordo) - killed by a malfunctioning catapult on Day Four


The Living:

Durelin
Gil-Galad
Hookbill the Goomba
Kath
Kitanna
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mithalwen
Nogrod
The Saucepan Man
Thinlómien

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Malfunctioning catapult? Brilliant idea Macalaure! :D

Well, that shut me up. All that suspecting Manwe for nothing. Poor guy. I'm still a tad confused at what went on in the voting, but at least we've got one of the faithfuls. The only problem is, the chances of anything coming from mars... I mean, the chances of us getting a faithful just slimmed. Hmm...

Well, the Saucepan man survived which is probably for the best given the record my hunches have. :p

[Macalaure]

This is the End of Day Four narration!!

Mänwe has been killed because he didn't vote two days!

Wait til deadline!! :p

[Macalaure]

Uneasy dreams haunted Nogrod this night. An evil foreshadow had taken possession of him. “Wake up, Nogrod” a voice said in his dream, but he withstood. Then the voiced called him again, and again, and finally Nogrod raised in his bed, drenched in sweat.

“Wake up, Nogrod, we would like to speak with you.” said a shade that stood next to his bed.

“Are you Faithfuls?” asked Nogrod, ever quick in thought “At my home? How dare you!”

“Calm, Nogrod, we only have come to bring you a gift.”

“A gift? I want no gift from Faithfuls!”

“But it is not from us. We are merely bearers of it. It comes from one more great than us.”

“I still don’t want it.”

“But you have to take it!”

“No!”

“Well, it is the will of Eru that you receive his gift...”

And with these words the three Faithfuls lifted their swords and violently they stuck them into Nogrod, who died a quick but painful death. Thus he received the Gift of Eru.

“...and the will of Eru may not be gainsaid.”


*~*


The Dead:

Macalaure (mod) - brutally killed by Faithfuls in Night One
Garin (ordo) - decapitated with a scythe on Day One
Holbytlass (ordo) - committed suicide to revive Garin in Night Two
The Might (ordo) - committed suicide to help Holbytlass reviving Garin in Night Two
Roa_Aoife (Tar-Míriel / cobbler) - stabbed to death on Day Two
Rikae (High Priest of Annatar / seer) - killed and reformed into a ship by Faithfuls in Night Three
Glirdan (ordo) - another one who committed suicide to revive Garin
Brinniel (ordo) - executed on Day Three
Rune Son of Bjarne (ordo) - disassembled by the Faithfuls in Night Four
the guy who be short (were-faithful) - flew from the Land of the Star with no star to guide him on Day Four
Mänwe (ordo) - killed by a malfunctioning catapult on Day Four
Nogrod (ordo) - received the Gift of Eru in Night Five


The Living:

Durelin
Gil-Galad
Hookbill the Goomba
Kath
Kitanna
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mithalwen
The Saucepan Man
Thinlómien

[Lalaith]

I'm delighted that one of my trio of suspects has bit the dust, even though it was a shame that the lynch was conducted through somewhat unorthodox means.

I am still, after yesterday's messy events, unshaken in my beliefs. I find Rah-rah ras-Saucie incredibly wolflike and Durelin also - I refer for reasons to my post 473 of yesterday. Added to which - Saucie's bare-faced deviousness of yesterday and Durelin's non-reading-of posts admission.
I'm sorry, missy, but there's only two WW games where I haven't at some point when I've had the time, read all posts closely. Once was when I was a wolf, when I knew everyone's identity, and just skimmed looking for stuff to frame people with, and once when I was a lover, when it was a similar scenario, my wolf-lover Ang told me everyone's identity. In all other games - as in this one - I was a clueless innocent, reading everything because I don't know who the culprits are and I'm desperate to know, combing the thread for clues. You're a smart girl, and if you're not reading posts properly there can be only one reason.

The fourth wolf I am less sure of, but I think it can be found among (in order of suspicion) Mith, Kitanna and Kath.
Mith - I don't mind her voting for me all the time, but aside from saying, on day one, that I was acting funny, she's never given a reason except she's always suspected me. Which is kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Plus she and Saucie should by rights have had a row by now and they haven't.

Kitanna - hmm, mixed feelings. Her post 471 seems to be a helpful villager and her reason for voting for me was so wolf-like it was almost innocent, if you get my drift.

Kath - well there is dodgy stuff about her (again refer to 473) but in her favour I think it was she who first pointed out Durelin's not-reading-posts thing.

I still think Lommy and Gil are innocent. In fact, Lommy, if you are a Faithful, frankly you deserve to win as far as I'm concerned, rarely have I seen such a convincing display of innocence. I am reasonably confident about Legate, and I am ambivalent about Hookbill.

Unless something very dramatic happens, call me Yusopov. Much as I enjoyed the little ding-dong with Saucie yesterday, any innocent analysing it should see how darned devious he was being. I will fight to get him lynched today.

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, I feel rather strange being here as, by rights, I should not be. Luckily we are in much better shape than we were (or would have been, but for the Grace of Mod ;) ), but there is still much work to be done.

I see that Lalaith is jumping to unfortunate conclusions again.

Much as I enjoyed the little ding-dong with Saucie yesterday, any innocent analysing it should see how darned devious he was being. I was merely correcting your misquoting and misrepresentation of me, and, I might add, feeling better about my vote as I did so.

But, unlike you, I am not going to prejudge without looking at the evidence. And we have a lot more to go on now that we have nailed a Faithful. I am going to review yesterDay's votes, and then I am going to go back over the votes on previous Days to see who voted for TGWBS, who he voted for, and at what time. We should also look to see what he said about people and vice versa, and I hope to get to that too. I know that he said that he felt me to be most likely innocent, and that Manwe and Gil were his main stated suspects, but there are some who I can hardly recall him mentioning.

I should imagine that it is going to be a lot quieter around here without Nogrod. It's a shame that the Ranger didn't take a punt on leaving him unprotected the Night before, but I can understand why s/he didn't.

I'm off to look at the votes but, in the meantime, here they are:

Gil-Galad: ++TGWBS (TGWBS 1)
Lommy: ++Durelin (TGWBS 1, Durelin 1)
TGWBS: ++Gil-Galad (TGWBS 1, Durelin 1, Gil-Galad 1)
SpM: ++Lalaith (TGWBS 1, Durelin 1, Gil-Galad 1, Lalaith 1)
Mithalwen: ++Lalaith (TGWBS 1, Durelin 1, Gil-Galad 1, Lalaith 2)
Kitanna: ++Lalaith (TGWBS 1, Durelin 1, Gil-Galad 1, Lalaith 3)
Kath: ++SpM (TGWBS 1, Durelin 1, Gil-Galad 1, Lalaith 3, SpM 1)
Hookbill: ++SpM (TGWBS 1, Durelin 1, Gil-Galad 1, Lalaith 3, SpM 2)
Nogrod: ++TGWBS (TGWBS 2, Durelin 1, Gil-Galad 1, Lalaith 3, SpM 2)
Lalaith: ++TGWBS (TGWBS 3, Durelin 1, Gil-Galad 1, Lalaith 3, SpM 2)
Durelin: ++Legate (TGWBS 3, Durelin 1, Gil-Galad 1, Lalaith 3, SpM 2, Legate 1)
Durelin: --Legate, ++SpM (TGWBS 3, Durelin 1, Gil-Galad 1, Lalaith 3, SpM 3)
Lalaith: --TGWBS, ++SpM (TGWBS 2, Durelin 1, Gil-Galad 1, Lalaith 3, SpM 4)

Did not vote: Legate, Manwe

[The Saucepan Man]

Gil-Galad: Voted for TGWBS, apparently having been swayed by Nogrod’s case against him. Possibly a Faithful-on-Faithful vote but unlikely as there was a fair bit of focus on TGWBS at the time. Even more unlikely in light of TGWBS’ vote for him. Then again, Gil is a law unto himself when innocent and I reckon that he would be the same when guilty. Still no idea about him, but I am not currently inclined to vote for him.

Lommy: Voted for Durelin, having suspected her before and having felt that Nogrod brought up good points about her. As I said yesterDay, if Durelin is a Faithful then, in light of this vote, Lommy is most likely innocent. And since I believe Durelin to be a Faithful, I am feeling a lot more comfortable about Lommy.

Mithalwen: Voted for Lalaith on the basis of her ongoing suspicion. With a few exceptions, Mith has voted pretty consistently for Lalaith. It’s a characteristic Wolfish/Faithful voting pattern, although dangerous if the “suspect” is lynched and turns out innocent. For that reason, I somehow doubt that a Faithful Mith would have voted for an innocent Lalaith yesterDay, with suspicion gathering around Lal the way it was. And, although I still have serious reservations about Lalaith, I don't see it as a Faithful-on-Faithful vote either. Mith remains low in my suspicions.

Kitanna: Voted for Lalaith on the basis of her “gut feel“ and also, I think, because of Lalaith’s vote for Brinniel, having stated that she was not one of her top suspects. Depends whether Lalaith is a Faithful or not, really, as this does not look at all like a Faithful-on-Faithful vote to me. I have been unsure about Kitanna throughout, but I was somewhat comforted by her contributions yesterDay. The jury’s still out for me on Kitanna.

Kath: Voted for me on the basis that I claimed Durelin was defending me, when she thought that she was not, and so thought me to be twisting Durelin’s words. Actually, it was Nogrod who claimed that Durelin was defending me and, from what I saw, I agreed with him. So it looks to me like it was Kath who was misrepresenting the position. I had felt better about Kath yesterDay, but this vote tweaks my suspicion meter big time.

Hookbill: Voted for me, apparently on the basis of instinct, putting me on 2 votes to Lal’s 3. Claiming “instinct” seems to me to be a very convenient way of avoiding having to state any reasons (unless, of course, you are Valier and have a proven track record ;)). I know that I am innocent, so I find this vote to be distinctly suspicious. I was wary of Hookbill before and I am even more so now.

Lalaith: Voted for TGWBS, putting him on 3 votes, level with herself and one ahead of me, then retracted at the last moment to vote for me (which should have seen me done for). If she is a Faithful, this was a strange vote since I would have expected her to vote for me. That said, I do not discount the possibility that she thought TGWBS the more likely to be lynched, took the opportunity to gain some credit for helping to do so and then, when she saw the opportunity to save the both of them, took it. In any event, she knew that she had her retraction (although she left it fairly late). I still find her extremely suspicious, particularly for her behaviour yesterDay, but this vote has me wondering.

Durelin: Voted for Legate and then quickly retracted and voted for me. Have there ever been two more suspicious votes cast in such quick succession? This looks to me like she hastily decided to put in a safe vote, then promptly thought better and took the opportunity to try to get me lynched. To my mind, these votes pretty much confirm my suspicions of her.

Legate: Did not vote, which I don’t like at all, but he has explained it on the Admin thread.

Now back to look at the previous Day’s votes in light of TGWBS’s unmasking.

[Gil-Galad]

well my suspicions on TGWBS were right...


and now, my suspicons are still casted on SPM and Durelin now and with our list of known innocents all but depleted, this shall be a difficult day ahead of us...

[Durelin]

Well, regardless of the circumstances in which TGWBS was killed, that was quite lucky. :D Except that of the main lynch targets Sauce was the one I really thought was a wolf...and still do.

Lalaith - I am flattered that you have confidence in my intelligence, but regardless of how well I might use my brain, I often don't like to. I have a lazy streak a mile wide. And I think I'm best qualified to admit that. It's the truth. It's also the truth that I do not read all the posts in the RPGs I'm in, and considering RPing is pretty much my biggest passion...well, that should clue you in to my laziness.

Your only proof against the truth of my statement is based on your own person gaming habits, which have absolutely nothing to do with me.

It's pretty sad that the only things anyone's really used against me is: 1. I said "yay" 2. something about Sauce 3. An admittance to not reading all the posts in WW games.

We need to be careful, people! At seven against three if we start on another innocent-lynching streak we'll quickly be screwed.

I was leaning more towards your innocence, Lalaith, particularly since you have been going after SPM, who I think to be a wolf, but the way you jump on something so baseless as me saying that I don't read all the posts in the thread?

I went back to look to see if Kath had brought that up, and I saw nothing of the sort, so perhaps your admission that as an innocent you read the thread carefully is false, as well? :p

I just had a crazy idea about Gil: he and TGWBS had a nice little stand-off yesterDay, but I'm pretty sure it was the first time the two really even acknowledged each other much. Was it a *last minute* attempt to separate themselves, spurred by Nogrod's assertion of TGWBS's, along with that of Sauce and myself? And Gil even takes the time to come back and give a bit of reason to his vote, and address TGWBS briefly. Why the change in approach?

Something to consider.

Gil - Continued suspicion of me? Since when have you even mentioned me? Oh, and I'm afraid we are completely out of known innocents.

Kitanna is becoming a more interesting case to me. I don't think TGWBS even mentioned her, or she him, except I think he said something about her being quiet, but it not being her fault. She's been one of those suspected all along, but not really ones...though I guess pretty much everyone now falls into that category.

Well, I predict toDay will mostly consist of SPM's double and triple posting.

My main suspects: Sauce, Kitanna, Gil. I really hope we can hear more from Legate and Lommy.

[The Saucepan Man]

Day 1

TGWBS’s took the safe option and voted for Garin. No one voted for TGWBS. So that doesn’t tell us much.

Day 2

TGWBS voted for Brinniel, which doesn’t tell us much either.

Lommy voted early for TGWBS, having expressed pretty strong suspicion of him. Unlikely to have been a vote for a fellow Faithful, so this too makes me feel better about her. She was the only villager to vote for TGWBS that Day.

Day 3

TGWBS voted again for Brinniel, but then retracted and cast his vote for Manwe. He was pretty consistent in voting for innocents, which leads me to think slightly more favourably of Gil-Galad.

No one voted for TGWBS.

Day 4, I have dealt with above.

Well, that wasn’t particularly helpful, I am afraid. Looking back again, however, I am reminded of Durelin’s early vote on Day 1 for Manwe, who presented himself as a rather obvious target in the opening stages, but who we now know was innocent. It looks to me like Durelin who was the one “testing the water” for his possible lynching. She later retracted and voted for Garin when he presented himself an even better target. :rolleyes:

[Durelin]

I retracted my vote to save the Seer, Sauce. I had no way of knowing that everyone would come out of the woodwork at the last minute, and that a switch to Garin specifically would prove unnecessary.

The way you're twisting everything about me is pretty pathetic. Maybe you're telling the truth about Lalaith, and she is really your comrade. You two seem to be manipulating in the same way.

[The Saucepan Man]

I just had a crazy idea about Gil: he and TGWBS had a nice little stand-off yesterDay, but I'm pretty sure it was the first time the two really even acknowledged each other much.Wrong, actually. I am currently looking at what people have said about TGWBS and would point out that he was on Gil's suspect list throughout - see posts #59 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=511003&postcount=59) and #307 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=511703&postcount=307).

Well, I predict toDay will mostly consist of SPM's double and triple posting.I may not have as much time (RL) tomorrow as I do now, as I will be at work. So I am taking the opportunity to look into some of the leads that TGWBS's death has given us. Perhaps you would have me not show up at all and make all this much easier for you ... :rolleyes:

Maybe you're telling the truth about Lalaith, and she is really your comrade.Is that the sound of straws been clutched, I hear? :p

[The Saucepan Man]

I have been reviewing the thread to see what people’s attitudes were to TGWBS and what his attitude was to everyone still here. Here’s a “rough and ready” list:

Durelin: TGWBS claimed throughout to find find her neutral. She has never expressed more than mild suspicion of him.

Gil-Galad: TGWBS suspected him yesterDay. TGWBS was on Gil’s list of suspects from the start. They voted for each other yesterDay.

Hookbill the Goomba: TGWBS expressed mild suspicion of him fairly late on. I don’t think that Hookbill has mentioned him once.

Kath: TGWBS said that he was slightly troubled by her. On Day 3, she found him “unbelievably suspicious” but thought this might be down to different playing style and history, from which she concluded that she had no idea about him.

Kitanna: TGWBS said that he was leaning to her innocence. I‘m not sure that she has mentioned him.

Lalaith: TGWBS claimed to suspect her early on, analysed her on Day 2, and then said that she did not look suspicious to him. He did, however, express suspicion of her yesterDay. She has been moderately suspicious of him for a while, and voted for him yesterDay, before switching to me.

Legate of Amon Lanc: TGWBS claimed to be uneasy about him. Legate seems to have been neutral about him.

Mithalwen: TGWBS expressed strong suspicion of her early on, but then eased off from about Day 2, saying that he thought her more likely innocent. She has remained neutral about him, saying little one way or the other.

The Saucepan Man: I was suspicious of TGWBS from Day 2. TGWBS said that he thought me probably innocent.

Thinlómien: TGWBS claimed to suspect her on Day 2, seemingly in response to her case against him, but then seems to have eased off. She strongly suspected TGWBS from Day 2, and voted for him on Day 2.

It is difficult to know exactly how TGWBS would have chosen to react to his fellow Faithfuls, or they to him. I am, however, interested in those about whom he said very little, and vice versa, namely:

Durelin
Hookbill
Kitanna
Legate

However, I strongly doubt that he would have affected the same attitude to all of his comrades. Which leads me to believe that there is probably only one Faithful on that list. There might be two, but I think that he would have been more careful than that.

I am curious about Kath’s view on him. I think it was Lalaith who picked her up yesterDay on it, and she did explain it. But I don’t like the way she seems to have found him very suspicious, yet gave herself an excuse not to vote for him.

TGWBS appears to have expressed no strong suspicions of anyone, of those still living, save for Gil-Galad. But I find their approach to each other yesterDay most unlikely to have been the behaviour of two Faithfuls.

His expressed opinons changed most with regard to Lalaith and Lommy and, to a lesser extent, Mithalwen. It is quite possible that he would have adapted his approach to his fellow Faithfuls as game progressed and, of these I find Lalaith the most suspicious. Lommy’s consistent suspicion of him, and her Day 2 vote for him, makes me think it unlikely that she is a Faithful. I am somewhat wary of the fact that Mithalwen never really expressed much of an opinion about him but I somehow doubt that he would so firmly have adopted a belief in the innocence of a fellow Faithful so early on. From my perspective, his stated belief in my own innocence also leads me to think that.

So, based on my analyses so far, here are my current thoughts:

Suspicious
Durelin
Lalaith
Hookbill

Somewhat suspicious
Kath
Kitanna
Legate

Inclined to think innocent
Mithalwen
Lommy
Gil-Galad

And now I must sleep …

[Gil-Galad]

I must be inclined to look at those who showed sympathy or acceptance with TGWBS, mainly because it is not wise for faithfuls to sacrifice one of there own, too much risk in it because of one goes then there a chacne of losing another and going downhill.

this late in the game it is not wise to sacrifce their own faithfuls because the list is dwindling and the faithfuls will have greater chances of being lynched out, i would have to agree with SPM's list, but here is my suspicous

Durelin
Hookbill
SPM

SPm wil lalways be on my suspicous, though he is starting to lean off of it... but i hate being fooled by big words...

[Lalaith]

Very quick one, as I won't be back til much later in the day...

Villagers, if I'm right about who the wolves are, we really are in trouble.
These Faithfuls are also among the most frequent and vocal posters - most of the innocents are quiet ones. I have a horrible feeling of deja vu, vis a vis duelling wizards and the wolf of the Rohirrim. Beware. Please post and participate, innocents.

[Thinlómien]

I'm here and I'm talking and the first think I've got to say is that I absolutely love yesterDay's narration! :D

~*~

SPM has to be a faithful. I think we'd better re-lynch him. I don't have the time right now to make a well-constructed case against him, but there are some points I wish to bring up.

Anyone else than a faithful would not say this:
I am certain that either Lalaith or Lommy is a Faithful and, since they have both been defending each other every so often, I wonder whether they both might be.Any innocent person would seriously reconsider before posting this or the other similar remarks SPM has made about me and Lalaith. An innocent wouldn't maybe find that suspicious, or dare to point that out. Because there are still two gifteds in the game and it's a fact that they know each others' identity. An ordo would be careful to accuse any two people with a seeming "bond" between them. A gifted would be more careful too: he could guess that such attack might reveal his role, and I don't think SPM would be that careless as a gifted. I wouldn't post this if I thought there was any real considerable possibility of SPM anything else than a deceitful elf-lover. (If we lynch him or and he turns out to be one of the remaining gifteds - which I very much doubt - I think you can strangle me for revealing him, and I deserve it. :rolleyes: )

The whole game SPM has been making things look more sinister than they are and twisting words. Remember what he said about Nogrod and Roa on Day1. Besides I have the impression that people have to correct his statements about their opinions all the time.

TGWBS's and Saucepan's relation to each other (what Nogrod spoke about yesterday) and also their comments about each other make him look quite faithfulish too.

Also, Saucepan's sudden fierce attack against Lalaith (who I think innocent) kind of creeps me out.

I don't like SPM's continuous "the wolves might be flying under the radar" -claim. While this might be true, it's a very good means of getting attention from vocal players, mainly himself.

I personally don't think Gil's a faithful (wouldn't he show more interest in the game if he had a special role?) and his confused remark about Glirdy being killed by the wolves speaks for his innocence, as he doesn't strike me as the wolf who plays a confused villager -type.

I'm not very suspicious of Hookbill either. While there are suspicious things in his behaviour, I'd rather say they are beacuse of his relative newbieness and his personal style, not because he's a faithful. He seems genuine.

Legate slipping under the radar? There you might have a point, but making this great fuss about slip-under-the-radarers because (from my point of view) one mediocrely suspicious villager is very faithful-ish. By the way I must admit I have not managed to form a proper picture of Legate, Kath, Mith or Kitanna this far, just a vague impression whether they're more innocent or suspicious, and it troubles me since at least one of them is most probably a wolf.

~*~

Durelin seemed quite genuine late yesterDay... I'm not sure if I suspect her that much anymore... also, the spat between her and SPM (who I believe to be a faithful) maybe speaks for her innocence... I don't know...

I still think Lalaith innocent. She has good points and feels genuine. Also the first day when she voted Holby because she thought she was the cobbler sending signs to the faithfuls... I don't think a faithful would have said that. When fabricating such accusation, a thought "what if she really is?" must cross the faithful's mind and thus I think a faithful wouldn't say that...

~*~

I think I'm going to check TGWBS's relations to other people myself, since I don't trust Sauce at all...

I'm also going to try to form a clear picture of the horde of unsures.

[Mithalwen]

I am here ... reading through..though starting from scratch sinceI was clearly so wrong about TGWBS :rolleyes:

3 wolves, 2 gifted, 5 ordos...

I have to say I am suspicious of Lalaith's theory that the quiet are innocent. Can't say that I don't want to have a close look at the Legate for a start, and you can never discount Kath and Kitanna....and Gil is so hard to pin down. But as I pointed out days ago we do not have the luxury of lynching for peace of mind :rolleyes:

[Thinlómien]

Please correct if I'm wrong somewhere, I might have missed something.....

Kath
TGWBS is worried by her silence on Day1.
Kath didn't suspect him on Day1.
TGWBS didn't suspect her on Day2.
Kath didn't suspect him on Day2.
TGWBS found her slightly suspicious on Day3.
Kath wasn't sure what to think of him on Day3.
TGWBS didn't have an opinion about her on Day4.
Kath was (very) slightly suspicious of him on Day4.
Could be in some sinister union based on this. I can well imagine wolves behaving this way towards each other.

SPM
TGWBS thought him innocent on Day1.
Sauce didn't suspect him on Day1.
TGWBS thought him innocent on Day2
Sauce didn't suspect him on Day2.
TGWBS was inclined to think him innocent on Day3.
Sauce was concerned about him on Day3.
TGWBS suspected him slightly, but was inclined to think him innocent on Day4.
Sauce had some suspicion of him on Day4.
Now this looks quite bad. Why was TGWBS so inclined to trust him? The mutual "friendship" on days 1 and 2 and Sauce distancing himself from him after he became generally suspected look quite faithfulish.

Mith
TGWBS suspected her on Day1.
Mith didn't suspect him on Day1.
TGWBS didn't suspect her much on Day2.
Mith didn't suspect him on Day2.
TGWBS trusted her on Day3.
Mith was inclined to trust him on Day3.
TGWBS was inclined to think her innocent on Day4.
Mith thought him innocent on Day4.
Here we see a mutual trust. I'm not sure what to make of it. I don't like TGWBS's suspicion slowly turning to trust (looks a bit planned), but on the other hand, I wonder if faithfuls would form an alliance like this at this phase of the game...

Gil
TGWBS didn't suspect him on Day1.
Gil had a hunch about TGWBs being a faithful on Day1.
TGWBS didn't suspect him on Day2.
Gil didn't suspect him on Day2.
TGWBS didn't want him to fly under the radar on Day3.
Gil suspected him on Day3.
TGWBS thought him dangerous and faithful-ish and voted him on Day4.
Gil suspected and voted him on Day4.
I'm ready to exonerate Gil for this. In my opinion that continuous suspicion and the votes casted for each other clearly tell these two were in no union.

Lommy
TGWBS didn't suspect her on Day1.
Lommy didn't suspect him on Day1.
TGWBS suspected (and disagreed with her) on Day2.
Lommy disagreed with him, suspected him strongly and voted him on Day2.
TGWBS found her slightly suspicious on Day3.
Lommy suspected him on Day3.
TGWBS suspected her slightly on Day4.
Lommy suspected him (though slightly less than before) on Day4.
Well obviously I can't comment on this.

Durelin
TGWBS questioned her on Day1.
Durelin didn't suspect him on Day1.
TGWBS didn't suspect her on Day2.
Durelin didn't suspect him on Day2.
TGWBS had no idea/found her neutral about her on Day3.
Durelin found and yet didn't find him suspicious the same time on Day3.
TGWBS didn't have an opinion about her on Day4.
Durelin found him unnerving on Day4.
Now this could be either way. Wolves could very well be like this towards each other, but so could a wolf and an innocent. Doesn't tell much.

Hookbill
TGWBS didn't suspect him on Day1.
Hookbill didn't suspect him on Day1.
TGWBS didn't suspect him on Day2. Hookbill didn't suspect him on Day2.
TGWBS had no idea about him on Day3.
Hookbill didn't suspect him on Day3.
TGWBS didn't find him very suspicious on Day4.
Hookbill didn't suspect him on Day4.
These could be fellow wolves very well indeed. I'm not sure if Hookbill ever even mentioned TGWBS in his posts...

Lalaith
TGWBS didn't suspect her on Day1.
Lalaith didn't suspect him on Day1.
TGWBS was inclined to think her innocent on Day2.
Lalaith didn't suspect him on Day2.
TGWBS had no idea about her on Day3.
Lalaith was slightly suspicious of him and wasn't sure what to think of him on Day3.
TGWBS suspected her quite strongly on Day4.
Lalaith was uneasy about him and voted him (though retracted) on Day4.
The funny thing here is that they trust, are unsure and suspect each other the same days... Not sure what to make of it.

Legate
TGWBS didn't suspect him on Day1.
Legate didn't suspect him on Day1.
TGWBS didn't suspect him on Day2.
Legate didn't suspect him on Day2.
TGWBS had no idea about him on Day3.
Legate thinks he seems "okay" on Day3.
TGWBS is uneasy about him on Day4.
Legate didn't suspect him on Day4.
Looks quite sinister. They avoided taking a stance towards each other. Possibly fellows...

Kitanna
TGWBS didn't suspect her on Day1.
Kitanna didn't suspect him on Day1.
TGWBS didn't suspect her on Day2.
Kitanna didn't suspect him on Day2.
TGWBS had no idea about her on Day3.
Kitanna didn't suspect him on Day3.
TGWBS was leaning to think her innocent on Day4.
Kitanna didn't suspect him on Day4.
Could be sinister, could be not. Difficult to say.

Needless to say, I'm quite disappointed with the whole thing. I didn't find very much out by wasting some time on this. I became more assured about SPM's guilt and Gil's innocence. But that's it, basicly.

I have to go and vote soon (should I stop wwing 'til I have a net access since this irritates me so?) and I don't see myself voting anyone else than SPM who ought to be dead already.

[Thinlómien]

Mith certainly said she thinks TGWBS innocent yet SPM writes:
She [Mith] has remained neutral about him [TGWBS], saying little one way or the other.
A wolf covering a fellow? Or a wolf trying to confuse the villagers? Or a wolf trying to drag an innocent to the grave with him? Or a wolf who tried to make an honest analysis, but made a mistake?

[Thinlómien]

++THE SAUCEPAN MAN

For reasons previously stated.

I'll be back toMorrow, if I'm still alive.

[The Saucepan Man]

Lommy, I am reasonably confident in your innocence but, if you are, then your faulty reasoning is highly dangerous. Of course, if you are not, then getting me lynched would be rather convenient for you after the events of yesterDay.

Any innocent person would seriously reconsider before posting this or the other similar remarks SPM has made about me and Lalaith. An innocent wouldn't maybe find that suspicious, or dare to point that out. Because there are still two gifteds in the game and it's a fact that they know each others' identity.I am not the only one to have pointed out such connections. Our known innocent did so too. To my mind, your mutual defences of each other seemed, and still seem, far too obvious for you to be Gifteds (and I now think them far too obvious for you to be fellow Faithfuls). In any event, any Faithful worth their salt would have picked up on it, so I saw no harm in noting it, as something which might be significant.

The whole game SPM has been making things look more sinister than they are and twisting words. Remember what he said about Nogrod and Roa on Day1. Besides I have the impression that people have to correct his statements about their opinions all the time.Perhaps you would point out where I have done this. My suspicions of Nogrod and Roa were on Day 1, for goodness sake, and I would note that I was right to be concerned about Roa. Other than Manwe, I think that I was the only one to be wary of her. And the only villagers who have sought to correct my statements, as far as I can recall, are Lalaith and Kath. As I think I have shown, it is they who have been either mistaking or misrepresenting my opinions.

I don't like SPM's continuous "the wolves might be flying under the radar" -claim. While this might be true, it's a very good means of getting attention from vocal players, mainly himself.Actually, my attention has largely been focussed on the more vocal players throughout. YesterDay, I noted in response to Nogrod that it would probably be too risky to start going after the quiet ones. However, I would not be at all surprised if there turned out to be at least one quiet Faithful. Failing to keep that at the back of one’s mind could be fatal, even if we focus on the louder ones first.

And, speaking of the loud ones, I think that you are wrong to lessen your suspicions of Durelin.

++DURELIN

Not sure whether I’ll be around much more toDay, but I hope to be here at the end.

Btw, Lommy, I did not see where Mith said that she thought TGWBS innocent but, from what she has said toDay, it looks like you’re right. It does not, however, really change my opinion of her.

[Gil-Galad]

COngrats SPm, you have brought me upon your bandwagon...

++Durelin

my reasons were stated before

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, considering what happened around here the Day before, I started to read through the thread yet again, looking if together with the revelation of tgwbs it makes some trace we can use.

Reading tgwbs's posts, he seems to be very complex. He behaves more or less the same way to everyone - meaning there are no persons (from us living) he would have any special attitude to. Actually, he acts much like an innocent (at least in the early days). His main confusing act was, really it seems, the famous shortlist concept, and that he accepted Roa dead right when he learned the truth. However, in the latter days, he started to base many things on Nogrod. The main thing (a "matematic pattern" in him, perhaps?) he does, seems to be point one vote right in the start - a safe vote! - but still then (or before, or around, or whatever) sparkling little hints of suspicion on others. There do not seem to be any particular objects for him - he suspected people who were suspected by others, or merely hinted something. However, all his votes were votes for someone who hasn't been voted yet at the Day (speaking about the first votes, not retractions). He was also a bandwaggon-creator twice - see: his 1st Day vote was Garin, who ended up lynched. His 3rd Day vote was Brinniel, who ended up lynched, and he was so bold to retract his own vote yet. On Day 2, he stayed with trying to defend Roa (an ally). On Day 4, Nogrod cast suspicion on him, so he couldn't do much - but was trying to accuse Gil-Galad.

From this I would conclude Gil-Galad probably being not in league with him, since if tgwbs played still the same way all the days, then this could have been supposed as a start of a bandwaggon against Gil-Galad.

The people whom tgwbs seemed to support the most were SpM and Mithalwen, namely, these posts seem most significant to me:

Thus far I have believed SpM to be innocent, but his continued life makes me doubt him a little.

The problem is that this always happens when SpM lives late into a game. People think that he must be a wolf, because otherwise the wolves would see him as a threat and kill him off.
However, the wolves know people will think this, so they may leave him alive in order to let him garner votes.
Or perhaps they leave him because they know that he is influential, but his suspicions are all wrong and so misleading the village.
This could be half a suspicion and half a defense, but it could be also a "defense with backdoor", if you catch my meaning. If SpM indeed were a Faithful, and were under strong suspicion, this might have served tgwbs as defense.

Mith - I appreciate the trust, but I must say you confuse me completely. I have gone from strongly suspecting you to strongly believing in your innocence and back again. You feel innocent to me - you act as though you have the village's interests at heart.
Mithalwen stood behind tgwbs in the Roa-issue, and tgwbs had very changing opinions on her (or at least he says so). If Mithalwen were a Faithful, this might also serve as backdoor, although tgwbs is a little bit more positive here than above. It is however true that Mith was not under such suspicion as SpM at that moment, so no big suspicion was needed, if they were allies.

That is what I had in my mind now, I'm leaving now for a little time, but seeing there is not much activity today, hopefully I won't miss much.

[Durelin]

Lalaith - While I agree that the number of quiet members of this village is undoubtedly bad for it, I do not like that you are so quick to assume that the quiet ones are innocent. I know you are simply suggesting, but you're giving me the feeling that you very much want the focus on the *loud ones*; you know that the loud ones are easier to get lynched because they are such a presence. As long as the loud ones aren't overly influential.

Though I agree at least one loud one is a wolf...

Gil - What reasons? I didn't vote for TGWBS yesterDay? Yeah, me and...how many others?

SPM - I'm really rather disappointed your reasons for suspecting me seem largely based on the fact that TGWBS expressed neutral feelings on me, and I did not express much suspicion of him...which are facts true about a number of people.

I also get the feeling your "oh, Lommy, I think your innocent...please don't lynch me" is a sorry act.

++Saucepan Man

Unless something drastic happens, my vote will stay, though I will be back later, though unfortunately probably not until just before the deadline.

I've found Legate's silence to be disconcerting, but his recent post does not set off any immediate alarms. I find Hookbill's continued "safe-distance" sort of stance even more disconcerting. And where's Kitanna and Kath? Though they never post much, they are normally fairly vocal. This is not turning out well...if only the wolves show up to vote, we are in bad shape.

[Mithalwen]

I am back...... I must say that I didn't have any particular feeling about TGWBS - I suppose I was inclined to trust himbecasue he seemed genuinely persuaded of my innocence - which from my point of view made him seem like a bona fide ordo since but clearly he was a wolf acting suspicious..... :rolleyes: I'm a mug....

but since he was up against two people I strongly suspected (and who seemed might get lynched) I had no intention of changing my vote ot him and so didn't examine closer....

[Kath]

And where's Kitanna and Kath? Though they never post much, they are normally fairly vocal.
I'm sorry. The trials of yesterday (RL) have continued as well as some extra ones from toDay and I've only just got back. But not that much seems to have gone on toDay as it is.

From what I've read I actually think Lommy's analysis is pretty good. What's she has come up with generally agrees with my own thoughts (which probably means she's a wolf and she has a whole bunch of innocents listed as suspicious, though to my mind she looks innocent still).

I was suspicious of Legate a couple of Days ago and have seen little from him since, still less that would make me change my mind.

Sauce I still find suspicious. He quibbles over exactly who said what too much for my liking and he really went for it against Lalaith yesterDay, which threw me slightly. Innocents in general (unless they're Farael) always have some measure of unsurety in their posts, which he didn't seem to.

Hookbill I'm still not entirely sure on. I thought him suspicious the other Day and it is entirely possible that one of the wolves is a quiet person. Those who I would consider truly quiet are Hookbill and Gil, and since I think Gil innocent it does, to me, add credence to the idea that Hookbill could be a wolf.

Then there's Durelin. There have been times when I've been quite suspicious of her, yet her most recent posts have seemed very innocent and helpful. Her most recent one especially. I think I may have changed my mind on her.

I won't vote now as I will be around probably until the deadline for once. But at the moment I'm leaning towards voting Sauce, and if not him then Hookbill.

[Lalaith]

Lommy, I'd disagree slightly with this assessment;
Lalaith was slightly suspicious of him and wasn't sure what to think of him on Day3. TGWBS suspected her quite strongly on Day4.
Lalaith was uneasy about him and voted him (though retracted) on Day4.


Guy was in my top four suspects on both Day 3 & 4. By day four I was a lot more than uneasy. In fact, the reason I was torn, as I said before I voted, between him and Saucie is that I felt that both were probably wolves so I didn't mind which one of them got lynched.
Nothing of course is certain in Werewolf and it may be that I am being an unusually misguided and pig-headed innocent. But I remain convinced, despite the mutual voting today, that both Durelin and Saucie are wolves, and, knowing one of them would probably be lynched, the other is hoping to gain kudos for helping the task along.
I still have a tiny doubt about Durelin but very little about Saucie.
++SAUCEPANMAN

[Kitanna]

I just wrote out somethings and the computer I'm on decided to delete it. And also since I'm away from home I have limited access.

But I've been looking at SpM and Durelin as best I can. I've read the cases against them and I'd say Durelin looks far more innocent than SpM. But I haven't looked at either hard enough to truly vote for either. I realize I should vote for one or the other because one is most likely a faithful, but I'm held back. I haven't given enough attention to either to feel comfortable voting for them.
But I'm going to look back and perhaps change my mind. If I run out of time or I turn up nothing I will vote for one of my suspects from yesterday.

[Mithalwen]

So 3votes for Mr Teflon and 2 forDurelin....

Hmm

[Kitanna]

Something just caught my eye and I see Durelin also noticed it. Gil has been suspecting tgwbs and SpM all along. If SpM bites it today and is a faithful I think a close look at Gil is needed. I'm not sure his suspicious are just dumbluck. Howver this depends on the guilt or innocence of SpM.

So looking mostly at posts from today (and a few from late yesterday) I think Durelin may well be innocent. I believe if SpM is guilty, than Durelin is probably innocent (and vice versa). I don't want to see Durelin lynched. Her posts today cry innocence to me. I could be reading them horribly wrong.

Regardless of who is lynched today I think a close look should be taken at Gil. I have lessened my suspcions of my other four and moved Gil up.
He is almost always quiet and keeps his posts short. But he was right in his "hunch" about tgwbs. He has suspected and voted for SpM and now he votes for Durelin. If either one of them turns out to be a faithful (and I'm sure one will be) I'd say Gil's hunches may be more than they seem.

I'd like to vote for Gil, Hookbill, or to a way lesser extent Lalaith (I've moved her down due to my suspcions of Gil). But I will hold off my voting for a little while (probably about 10 minutes) just to see what happens.

[Lalaith]

Hang on a minute Kitanna. You're sure either Saucie or Durelin will turn out to be a faithful, you think Durelin's posts cry out innocence, (so therefore one must infer you think Sauce a faithful) but then you want to vote for either Gil, Hookbill or perhaps me?

[Lalaith]

I mean, by all means vote where you wish to, but I just thought this needed explaining.

[Kitanna]

Hang on a minute Kitanna. You're sure either Saucie or Durelin will turn out to be a faithful, you think Durelin's posts cry out innocence, (so therefore one must infer you think Sauce a faithful) but then you want to vote for either Gil, Hookbill or perhaps me?
I don't feel I have a strong case against SpM or I'd vote for him. I know that probably sounds stupid or ridiculous, but I'd rather vote for someone I have a case against and not just some gut feeling. Because in the end all I have against (or for) either SpM or Durelin is a gut feeling.

[Mithalwen]

Having just read through his posts .. I am inclined to think Gil innocent ..but then I said that about TGWBS......

[Lalaith]

That Glirdan error was what swung it for me vis a vis Gil. I just don't think he would have fabricated such a misunderstanding.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, I am back and seeing nothing much has changed. The quiet village seems somewhat... scary.

SpM - I am still reluctant to accuse him as a Faithful because others do; I don't know: on first sight, SpM looks like a good cheery fellow who tries to help the village very actively, bringing up points, posting lists etc. If this is not a covered Faithfullishness but merely an attempt to help, then, I wouldn't like to thin our numbers by mistake. Though the way tgwbs spoke about him is something which hints there could be a connection between them, so he is still looking the "surest" option to me, at least for now.
The other subject might be Mithalwen, though her latter posts somewhat calm me. Hmm...

Gil-Galad, as I said above, I think is probably innocent. The same goes for Hookbill, I am still inclined to believe his "honest reluctance". Concerning Durelin, for those of you who know D&D, I'd say it this way: I don't know whether to consider her "chaotic good" or "chaotic evil". But if I had to judge her general behavior, I am inclined to see her not a Faithful. The similar goes probably about Lommy, although I had some strange feelings on her lately, now I think she is ok.

Lalaith... I never quite got the start of her case, I don't see anything particularly suspicious on her. Only a question:
Villagers, if I'm right about who the wolves are, we really are in trouble.
These Faithfuls are also among the most frequent and vocal posters - most of the innocents are quiet ones. I have a horrible feeling of deja vu, vis a vis duelling wizards and the wolf of the Rohirrim. Beware. Please post and participate, innocents.
I must say this actually quite creeped me out when I first saw it, because I don't know what to think of it. What was that supposed to mean, Lalaith? (and what is duelling wizards anyway?)

Kath is still undecipherable to me (maybe it is because of that avatar :D ) - I don't have any particular opinion on her.

I'll wait if Kitanna appears here, otherwise I think everyone has showed up...

EDIT: Seems like it wasn't that quiet after all, Kitanna was already here...

[Kitanna]

++ Saucepan Man

I'd rather vote for one of my other suspects, rather than on a gut feeling that either Durelin or SpM is guilty. However, I feel Durelin is innocent and I'd rather have her kept alive.

Tomorrow I'd like to take a long hard look at Gil.

[Mithalwen]

I will probably go with Pan man..thought I haven't read as much as I would like .... just a feeling from the day one dynamic..adn I suspect that Roa suspected him of being a faithful and her initial vote was a bluff.

I wish Hookbill woul dpost but he clearly is not going to be an option for today

[Kath]

Ok, I'd better vote now.

++SAUCE

For what I said earlier.

I'm not sure about looking at Gil, Kitanna. That slip about the wolves killing Glirdan ... I just can't see him doing it on purpose. It's possible, but of the quiet ones I think I'd still be more inclined to believe Hookbill a wolf than Gil.

[Lalaith]

Sorry Legate. The Wolf of the Rohirrim is Eomer, one of the most sinister wolves/players ever to plague a village, so I'm not surprised you were creeped out even by the mention of his name. I was referring to a previous WW game, duelling wizards, when I pleaded with villagers to lynch Eomer, who I was convinced was a wolf. The innocents were mostly quiet ones, the wolves won the day and lynched me instead, and the game was lost to the innocents.

What I was trying to say was that if I was right, and the wolves are indeed Saucie, Durelin and possibly Mith, they would be an unusually formidable pack and the rest of us needed to fight back with as much force and participation as we could muster.
But back to the subject at hand.

[Durelin]

About 15 minutes till the close of the Day and we still have not heard from Hookbill. He did vote yesterDay, though, at least, so luckily we aren't running the risk again of untimely losing another innocent. He definitely needs to be looked at again, even though we really don't have much to go on him.

If we have another wolf in SPM, if the wolves get a kill toNight, tomorrow it will be 6 of us against 2 wolves; if not, it will be 3 against five? :eek: Why do these things always come down to the wire...

Wow, it seems like it's been a while since the voting hasn't been neck-to-neck to the last minute. *waits for the retractions to start* :p

[Mithalwen]

Well this village has been peculiarly suicidal.......... but we still have a ranger..and a hunter ......so we may get a bonus.....

[Mithalwen]

++ The Saucepan Man

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Sorry Legate. The Wolf of the Rohirrim is Eomer, one of the most sinister wolves/players ever to plague a village, so I'm not surprised you were creeped out even by the mention of his name. I was referring to a previous WW game, duelling wizards, when I pleaded with villagers to lynch Eomer, who I was convinced was a wolf. The innocents were mostly quiet ones, the wolves won the day and lynched me instead, and the game was lost to the innocents.

What I was trying to say was that if I was right, and the wolves are indeed Saucie, Durelin and possibly Mith, they would be an unusually formidable pack and the rest of us needed to fight back with as much force and participation as we could muster.
But back to the subject at hand.
Oh. All right then.

Well, considering that there is probably nothing interesting happening today any more, I am going to trust the "proof". And let's hope we have not made mistake this time.

++the Saucepan Man

[Durelin]

I'm not sure about looking at Gil, Kitanna. That slip about the wolves killing Glirdan ... I just can't see him doing it on purpose. It's possible, but of the quiet ones I think I'd still be more inclined to believe Hookbill a wolf than Gil.

The mess up doesn't necessarily have to be on purpose or mean he's innocent. Limiting it to just those two options seems rather foolish to me. Particularly with Gil, I'm prepared to expect anything. :rolleyes: ;)

[Mithalwen]

I wish I was surer ..I have a nagging feeling of having been stitched up...

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Sorry for not posting peoples, it's been one of those days. :rolleyes:
If this keeps up, I may have to pull out.

I understand your casem Master Pan, and I'd probably vote for me in your shoes, which makes me think that you're not a wolf because I cannot see any advantage the faithfuls would have in getting me lynched as I readily admit I've not really posed a threat as far as I am aware.
I'm running out of time, so I'll have to come to a decision...

Durelin's name kept popping up so I thought I'd give the old Wight's posts a check up and I can see where the people are coming from. 'Loud' is how Durelin was described somewhere above, and I'm not sure how to read that particular reading.

Gil-Gallad is the only one who has left me uneasy today. And I see it's now 8:59 so... erm... well... *shakes nervously*

Sorry, Gil...

++ Gil-Gallad

[Macalaure]

Deadline

The Saucepan Man has been lynched (I think)

Since nobody complains, I assume to be right. ;) :rolleyes:

The Saucepan Man is a Filthy Faithful!

[Durelin]

It almost seems too obvious to be right... Arrrghh this game can be so stressful sometimes...

Edit: Agh, sorry for cross-posting!

[Macalaure]

Long the Númenoreans talked on this day, and finally, for the first time, it seemed like they they were pulling together. Slowly but surely the vote steered towards the Saucepan Man and with no hesitation the decision was reached. Now only one thing stood between the angry mob and a dead Saucepan Man: The Saucepan Man himself!

Because he was nowhere to be found!

“Where is the Saucepan Man?” asked Kath “We must see him and speak to him, more clearly than we have spoken yet.”

The Númenoreans searched upon Meneltarma and in the village at its feet, but he was not there. The evening was dawning already when he was found, at the very western end of the island. A wall there once stood, part of which was now destroyed and part of which reached out into the ocean. There the Saucepan Man stood watching out on the waves.

“Saucepan Man!” cried Hookbill, the Goomba, seriously “You know the charges that are made against you, that instead of praying to Melkor, the Great God of the World, you are worshipping the name... Ilúvatar?”

A widely audible gasp was heard.

“I don’t think it should be a sin, just for worshipping Ilúvatar!” the Saucepan Man answered.

“Blasphemy!” the crowd shouted, but Hookbill, though distressed himself, kept his calm: “You’re only making it worse for yourself!”

“Making it worse? How can it be worse? Ilúvatar! Ilúvatar! Ilúvatar!”

“He said it again! He said it again!” the crowd shrieked and they took up stones that were broken from the wall.

“I’m warning you! If you say Ilúvatar one more time...” Hookbill attempted to say, but a stone thrown to his head interrupted him. “Right! Who did that? Come on, who did that?”

“She did! She did!” it was jangled, and the Númenoreans were pointing towards Mithalwen.

“Was it you?”

“Yes...”

“Why?”

“Well, you did say... you know...”

“To the back of the line with you!”

“Do you not see what the worship of Melkor has done to you?” the Saucepan Man threw in “You have begun to slay one another. Stop it now! No one is to stone anyone until Hookbill blows his whistle, even... and I want to make this absolutely clear... even if somebody does say... ‘Ilúvatar’!”

“He said it again!” the Númenoreans shrieked again, and they mercilessly stoned the Saucepan Man.


The day was dark, but there was now hope for Men, for the Faithful were fewer.


*~*


The Dead:

Macalaure (mod) - brutally killed by Faithfuls in Night One
Garin (ordo) - decapitated with a scythe on Day One
Holbytlass (ordo) - committed suicide to revive Garin in Night Two
The Might (ordo) - committed suicide to help Holbytlass reviving Garin in Night Two
Roa_Aoife (Tar-Míriel / cobbler) - stabbed to death on Day Two
Rikae (High Priest of Annatar / seer) - killed and reformed into a ship by Faithfuls in Night Three
Glirdan (ordo) - another one who committed suicide to revive Garin
Brinniel (ordo) - executed on Day Three
Rune Son of Bjarne (ordo) - disassembled by the Faithfuls in Night Four
the guy who be short (were-faithful) - flew from the Land of the Star with no star to guide him on Day Four
Mänwe (ordo) - killed by a malfunctioning catapult on Day Four
Nogrod (ordo) - received the Gift of Eru in Night Five
The Saucepan Man (were-faithful) - stoned to death on Day Five


The Living:

Durelin
Gil-Galad
Hookbill the Goomba
Kath
Kitanna
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mithalwen
Thinlómien

[Macalaure]

It was unusually late when the Númenoreans got back to their huts. An exhausting day had lain behind them and it showed, most with Kath, who fell asleep even at the same place where the Saucepan Man had been lynched.

In the middle of the night, she heard somebody call her name. – “Wake up, Kath” – but nobody was there to be seen for her in the moonlit darkness.

“Who are you?”

“I come with good tidings for you in these evil times.”

“Where are you?”

“I am upon the wall,... looking down on you!”

Kath looked up, and against the moon she saw a dark figure above her and it felt to her as if she could see its glaring eyes under the waving cloak.

“Do you wish to bring evil on me?” she asked frightened.

“On the contrary! I’d like to save you and accord an honourable fate to you.”

“And what shall that be?” Kath asked.

“You shall be sacrificed to the Children of Ulmo!” the figure said complaisantly.

“Never!” she defied, and the figure drew its sword. Seeing the hopelessness of her situation Kath quickly turned and was about to run away, back to the village to find herself help. But the Faithfuls proved smarter than she: the other was already waiting behind her and so she ran into an upraised sword.

Thus Kath passed from this world.

Later that night, the Faithfuls fulfilled the offer they had made to her, and Kath was cut into many pieces and given to the living things of the sea.


*~*


The Dead:

Macalaure (mod) - brutally killed by Faithfuls in Night One
Garin (ordo) - decapitated with a scythe on Day One
Holbytlass (ordo) - committed suicide to revive Garin in Night Two
The Might (ordo) - committed suicide to help Holbytlass reviving Garin in Night Two
Roa_Aoife (Tar-Míriel / cobbler) - stabbed to death on Day Two
Rikae (High Priest of Annatar / seer) - killed and reformed into a ship by Faithfuls in Night Three
Glirdan (ordo) - another one who committed suicide to revive Garin
Brinniel (ordo) - executed on Day Three
Rune Son of Bjarne (ordo) - disassembled by the Faithfuls in Night Four
the guy who be short (were-faithful) - flew from the Land of the Star with no star to guide him on Day Four
Mänwe (ordo) - killed by a malfunctioning catapult on Day Four
Nogrod (ordo) - received the Gift of Eru in Night Five
The Saucepan Man (were-faithful) - stoned to death on Day Five
Kath (ordo) - made into fish fodder in Night Six


The Living:

Durelin
Gil-Galad
Hookbill the Goomba
Kitanna
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mithalwen
Thinlómien

[Lalaith]

Ok, this has cleared up a few things.

Today I will be voting for either Durelin or Mithalwen.

[Durelin]

So it was both obvious and true. Two done, two to go...can we do it in just two more Days I wonder? :D


Today I will be voting for either Durelin or Mithalwen.

Okay, glad you already know for certain, less than half an hour after the start of the Day. :rolleyes:

I think it quite probable that at least one if not both of the wolves voted for SPM...obviously, considering the consensus was against him the Day before as well. It's possible even that they voted fairly early on for him, but I think it's at least less likely. They can always leave things open to the possibility of another lynchee until they feel that it's pretty certain SPM was going to be lynched.

I think Gil should be looked at, as I do not think that the fact that TGWBS started going after him clears him of guilt. Gil has been in the background of suspicion for a while, but he was never in danger of lynching, so I believe it could have been a wolf trying to distance himself from his comrade. Kitanna's waffling is maybe of interest, but I don't like the feel of people who seem certain.

Lalaith's voting record when it comes to TGWBS and Sauce makes me think she isn't a wolf, and yet she is bothering me a lot. And no, not just because she has suspected me for some time now, but because she has basically only perpetually suspected me since Nogrod started on his tirade against me. It seems pretty possible to me that she could very well have decided that since TGWBS and Sauce had already been put under pressure by the only known innocent, she could at least make herself look good. It is crazy, though, so she's not my top suspect. The way she addressed Kitanna's waffling on myself and Sauce and her "gut feelings," she seemed to accuse Kitanna for not just voting for one of us, as if not doing so was just illogical or wrong. Then she posted again to say "oh, yeah, but you can vote for whoever you want." Doesn't really say anything, but it bothers me. I guess overall it's just how she's been playing off what Nogrod started. Though maybe she just assumes that if he was right about Sauce and TGWBS he's right about me.

She has been doing a good job remaining consistent...still going after Mith...

Speaking of Mith, her later vote may have been a wolf deciding that it was too late to try and save her comrade. Legate's definitely could be that, as well. Mith feels more innocent than Legate does. I feel like I have nothing on Legate, which makes me worry that he's been so careful and in such a safe position that he's just been the perfect wolf.

Hookbill is as much of a mystery to me now as Gil is. He obviously is short on time, and I suppose his vote yesterDay can be attributed to that, but...it does look very odd, and I made the mistake once before of ruling out a person just because they didn't have much time and when they did post they seemed as helpful as they could be. Hookbill's suspicions have all be "kindas" and he tends to apologize for suspecting and voting for people. He's playing it so safe it's a little astounding.

Lommy seems innocent to me. Her posting, though rare, has been extremely helpful, and she was spot on with SPM.

I have a feeling this is going to be a very quiet day... Lalaith was right about a quiet village. Of course for some reason I think it likely she won't be contributing much more than a vote for myself or Mith...

Time to consider doing some homework...

[Gil-Galad]

With the past events, i am inclined to take Durelin off my suspicous list, as i said earlier, faithfuls would know better then to risk their own kin to be lynched in this stage of the game

so we have 2 faithfuls, 2 gifted and 4 ordos...hmmm... interesting indeed... personally i am surprised i have survived this long already...


Suspicous:

Hookbill
Lalaith

Less Suspicous:

Legate
Durelin
Mithalwen

Proabably innocent:

Thinlomien

i want to look more of what Kitanna has to say, she has been way too quiet and way too much under the radar, possibly a silent wolf

[Lalaith]

My decision about who to vote for are based on my deductions as to the reason the wolves killed Kath.
However, as those deductions involve speculations as to the identity of the Hunter, I won't explain them openly, unless urged to by people I trust in this game.

[Lalaith]

By the way, I won't be able to post again until much later today. Nothing sinister there, my computer at work blocks the forum.

[Lalaith]

Sorry for this flood-posting...just spotted what Gil said...

er, Gil...if you absolve Durelin of wolvishness because faithfuls would know better then to risk their own kin to be lynched in this stage of the game then why do suspect me? I voted to lynch both guy and saucie, and indeed argued forcefully for their lynchings....

[Lalaith]

God, I can't believe I'm doing this, I'm going to be late for work....
but I also realised I should address this claim:
she has basically only perpetually suspected me since Nogrod started on his tirade against me

No, you were my top suspect the day before. Anyway, more later. Hope it doesn't stay this quiet.

[Thinlómien]

I've reached the paranoid stage of suspecting everyone. Whether that's good or bad I don't know. Well, at least I don't need to suspect Kath anymore. :rolleyes:

Durelin... she's a difficult one. I was almost ready to exonerate her for this:
It almost seems too obvious to be right... Arrrghh this game can be so stressful sometimes...But then again, I knwo she's very clever and well capable of making such move... (You may wonder what was the point of this paragraph. It was to point this comment out and stir discussion about it: I'd be glad to hear other people's opinions on it too....)

I disagree with Gil-Galad who says that the faithfuls are most probably sticking together at this phase. I'm almost sure that yesterDay (or even the Day before) there was at least one faithful-on-faithul -vote. That statment actually makes me slightly wary of Gil: it would be very convenient for him as a wolf to say that, remembering the spat between him and TGWBS...

I will check two things soon: 1) What Sauce said about everyone yesterDay since he knew he was under a serious lynch-threat. (I just think he didn't say very much just because of that. :rolleyes: ) 2) Why was Kath killed? Did she say anything gifted-ish? Who did she suspect? Or was she just generally not very much suspected and the faithfuls decided to eliminate her since she certainly is a clever player?

[Thinlómien]

Okay, I did check. Sauce actually said quite a lot, but I've concluded that he could have used any tactic, bluff tactic or double-bluff tactic, so who he claimed to think innocent or guilty doesn't help us (or me at least). :rolleyes:

Kath said nothing yesterday that would give me a clue why was she killed. Maybe that's in her earlier posts and I should check them too. This is the first wolf kill we can really analyse and I don't think we should waste the chance... but we should keep in mind that "to confuse" and "to avoid leaving tracks" are wolves' killing motives too...

[Thinlómien]

I'm not very intrigued or amused by the fact that it has been very silent toDay... I hope you'll at least be more active in the late hours when I'm not here anymore... (I know I've not been very active myself, but I'll do a few posts before I leave.)

[Mithalwen]

It has taken this computer 45 mins to load this page .... argh ...

I am reasonably confident of Lommy's innocence and am inclined to believe gil and Durelin are innocent .... Gil has been on the money all the way through and the fact I agree with him now is encouraging ......

Part of me thinks it incredible that we may have pinned three wolves in the 3 way tie the other night but Lalaith still looks suspicious to me. I suspected initiall for her misinterpretation of my first post. The main others who did this were SpM and TGWBS ..... :rolleyes:

Legate ..makes me uneasy but it may be unfamiliarity..and so does Hookbill who has seemed too quiet.

Kitanna hasn't figured on my radar much but that doesn't necessarily mean anything ... she is a steady type ..not likely to give away her role easily be she wolf or gifted.

[Thinlómien]

Good to see someone around!

And one correction:
This is the first wolf kill we can really analyse -- Actually this isn't since the Rune-kill was one as well... :rolleyes:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hmm, mostly I agree with Lommy. It indeed seems there is not much to be gained from SpM, nor do I happen to conclude anything from Kath's death (however, I didn't have time to go through all the thread, so perhaps later).

(You may wonder what was the point of this paragraph. It was to point this comment out and stir discussion about it: I'd be glad to hear other people's opinions on it too....)

I don't think this would really signify Durelin's innocence or Faithfulness. But I don't know if a Faithful would post something like that, so... Well, concluding from Durelin's general behavior, I think this could have been genuine.


faithfuls would know better then to risk their own kin to be lynched in this stage of the game.
I don't want to make anything out of nothing, but considering what I said earlier about Gil-Galad's vote on tgwbs (and vice versa), this could be very well a cover, like emphasising my point. Whether I thought Gil innocent yesterday, I am not that sure now, since this looks somehow suspicious to me. Also considering that Gil jumped on SpM's bandwaggon and even yet proclaimed it might look quite different in the light if he was Faithful.

[Gil-Galad]

With the jumping on the bandwagon, i was merely entranced, if you will, by SPM's big words as usual, i shall try not to do it this time

Lalaith i suspect you because some faithfuls could be stuck in the moment and not really underrstanding what other Faithfuls really want. you could also be in a sense of panic with the accusations on you that you feel you must risk your own kin to save yourself, it is a free-for-all now i must admit and none of us can really trust each other enough... oh how i wish we still had our seer...


Experience, its what seperates us from the animals... well that and product placement


still waiting to hear from hookbill and Kitanna

[Thinlómien]

I looked through Kath's posts from yesterDay and the Day before and found nothing that would have attracted a wolf attack. I think she might have been killed to leave no tracks (she was quite quiet and did not have any major disputes or alliances with anyone) or because the wolves thought her to be gifted since she was very quiet (as to avoid attention) and not one of them. Pure speculation.

I'm inclined think Gil and Lalaith innocent (and won't be repeating the reasoning here, it's on my earlier posts), but anyone else could be either way... I mean...

I'm really confused about Durelin. I used to suspect her a lot and I can still see why. But I'm not sure what to think of her. She has been quite genuinely innocent-ish lately and I don't know how to take Sauce's vehement attack on her yesterDay... Was Sauce trying to get an innocent lynched or was he trying to make either himself (in case wolf-Durelin was killed) or wolf-Durelin (in case he himself was killed) look good? We can't know. Also, I wonder if three of the faithfuls (SPM, TGWBS, Durelin) would all support the same idea (finding clues from Roa's posts...) And that last comment of hers yesterDay... My head's boiling probably!

Kitanna then... She makes me wary. But she does that every single time I play with her regardless of her role. Her jump on the Lalaith-wagon and the things that popped to my mind while doing the analysis about her some Days ago are quite incriminating, but on the other hand her placement on the wolves' suspicion list makes me think she's innocent. Would a faithful do this to two of his fellows?: (those are the only two names under "somewhat suspicious")

Somewhat suspicious
TGWBS - for urging the village not to vote for Roa
Kitanna - for possibly testing the water on Manwe and also seemingly avoiding controversy
Or this to a fellow: (the only name under that title)
More innocent than faithful
Kitanna
I don't really know about Kitanna either... :(

Hookbill... he seems very genuine. There are some things that make me suspect him however. He continuously seems to avoid taking sides and I don't like his placement on several suspicion lists by TGWBS and Sauce. But I've been mistaking newcomerishness with wolvishness before *coughBrinnielcough* so I'd rather not judge Hookbill too quickly, especially as there isn't any particular things that ring my alarms about his behaviour.

I don't know what to think of Mith either... Both of the now-revealed wolves thought her innocent... does that speak for her guilt or her innocence? I think the first one more probable wolvish behaviour... And like I've said before, she's been concentrating on weird things but her consistent Roa-campaign makes me think she's innocent... I think I'm going to let her be (means not actively suspect her) at least for toDay, she seems less suspicious than many anyway...

Legate? He's way too careful to my taste and his interactions with TGWBS look pretty sinister. Also I don't like his behaviour late yesterday... But on the other hand he has said some things I don't think a faithful would say and his helpful and calm manner are innocent-ish... A difficult one again.

[Thinlómien]

++KITANNA

Because of the following things.

- See this (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=511765&postcount=328). Even though it was made some time ago it's still partly relevant. Especially the parts about carefulness, agreeing, repeating, Garin and Hookbill.
- I don't like her joining the Lalaith-wagon at all. Seems like trying to save two fellow faithfuls.
- Check TGWBS's and Sauce's attitudes towards her. In his last Day(s?) Sauce said she was on of his main suspects, but never made a case against her or anything. Guy remained neutral/positive about her. For most of the game, they both had no idea about her or thought her neutral. Smells faithful-ish.
- She flip-flops. Check her statements about Durelin from yesterday for example.
- She voted SPM after stating she'd rather note vote him because she didn't have a "case" against him, just gut-feeling.
- Also, she voted Lalaith because she needed to take a closer look at her other suspects, me and Mith. As far as I know, no "closer look" was ever taken, at least none that she'd have told us about.

[Mithalwen]

I am quite puzzled as to why Kath was killed ...... although maybe others find her easier to read she can usually be relied on to befuddle ..... she is one of the quieter ones but Legate, Hookbill, Gil and Kitanna are at the same level.
Maybe it was a calculated choice to avoid the ranger.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

I agree with Mithalwen. Kath's killing was odd and unusual, perhaps the faithfuls are going for the ones who haven't aroused suspicion or been quiet in order to avoid having anything concurred put on them... Hmm... interesting mental image.

This'll be my only post today, unfortunately so I'll have to vote...

++ Gil Gallad

My last hunch about SPM turned out, by sheer fluke probably, to be right, so I'm sticking with this for now. No hard feelings, Mr. Gallad.

[Lalaith]

I'm back.

The reason I'm focussing on Kath's death is because by rights it should have been Lommy who was killed. Most of us believe her to be innocent and trust her, so she is almost like a known innocent.
Of course, the wolves might have assumed that for that reason the ranger would protect her and so they went for someone else instead, choosing Kath for the reasons people have mentioned today.

However, I've got another theory, as I mentioned earlier. Having said that....thinking about it today, I realise my deductions from this theory are faulty, and that it does not exclude as many suspects as I thought.

I'm a bit worried about Hookbill now, for example.

I wish Lommy were coming back, while I trust her as much as I can trust any non-proven player in this game, I'm not sure I'm convinced by her Kitanna arguments.
I'm still perturbed by Durelin, and I still think she's a wolf.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, it seems really nothing much is possible to deduce from Kath's death, so I have not moved on with anything and can only present here some traces brought by my conclusions. While something has raised doubts on Gil-Galad in me, I am not still sure enough of it being something to stand on. Probably the most possible suspect to me now seems Mithalwen. Mainly it is because of the possibility of a connection with tgwbs, but when reading through her posts, there are things which seem really strange. There are several posts from her in the first days which might seem like a defense of SpM, or an apology why not vote for him. Mith also seems to be very defensive of herself, in a "preventive" way. Also later at the time Roa was about to be lynched, she might have cast a Faithful-on-Faithful vote on SpM. And finally, on the day tgwbs was lynched, she joined SpM's vote campaign against Lalaith - if she were a Faithful, this could mean possible attempt to save both SpM and tgwbs. Though, it is true that she voted for Lalaith even earlier - but on the other hand, the Faithfuls might have agreed on this (they can make plans, right? So maybe this was the case). I cannot probably go on with better things now, but thus far, the evidence seems to be quite convincing to me. And the main point is, as I said, the possible connection with the two lynched Faithfuls. I'd wait here if something else appears to ponder (not that there is much traffic today anyway), but I have to leave now and probably wouldn't return. So,

++Mithalwen

[Lalaith]

I can wait until near the deadline and I want to hear from everyone.

Legate, Lommy and Hookbill have all cast their votes, saying they will not return.
Of these three, I am fairly confident that Legate and Lommy are innocent. The more I think about things, however, the more unhappy I am getting about Hookbill.

So far, Kitanna, Gil and Mithalwen all have one vote each.

Kitanna has yet to make an appearance toDay. Gil, Mith, Kitanna and Durelin have yet to vote (as I have I). Gil says odd things, it is true, but I still think he is an innocent. I suspect Kitanna to be an innocent but I have deep misgivings, as I said, about Durelin and Mith. Clearly not all three (Hookbill, Durelin and Mith) can be wolves, but my vote will go to one of those three.

[Mithalwen]

Legate you credit me with a guile I don't possess and could you point out whereI defnd the Saucepan man? I really don't believe that is possible.

Oh and I am innocent but not gifted so it won't be quite so disatrous if you lynch me especially since I will hardly be able to participate if I live til Saturday. And I am fairly clueless other than that Lommy really seems in the clear...

[Lalaith]

Legate you credit me with a guile I don't possess

Pshaw. Don't believe a word of it, Legate. She's as guileful as Guileful Jack McGuile, winner of this year's Mr Guile competition. ;)

[Mithalwen]

And to think I was about to vote for Hookbill having decided I might have been wrong about you ....... :rolleyes: I have been a wolf twice. First time I was Fenris, second I was with Roa...... nuff said :

[Durelin]

Sorry I couldn't be around more. Very, very long school day, and I gave blood and haven't had anything substantial to eat...well, really at all today...so I need to eat and lie down really soon.

I find Hookbill's behavior strange, but my gut goes more against Gil. Yes, he's Gil, and I remember a time when Gil and Nilp were both very good at getting themselves lynched on the very first Day. But I think we've given him the benefit of the doubt for long enough. His vote for TGWBS really feels like a wolf-on-wolf vote to me, because I think it was pretty clear that SPM was the more prominent lynch candidate that Day, and so Gil's vote for TGWBS was a wolf-on-wolf vote that would look good should TGWBS be lynched, but it was not condemning his comrade indefinitely.

Other than that, he's been hanging on by a thin thread in simple participation.

A simple mistake does not exonerate him. No, I don't think he did it on purpose, but I do believe he really hasn't had much time in RL to post or read the thread. Does that mean I will assume that he is not a wolf, though? Hardly. I learned my lesson on that.

I wish I felt more certain. Like Lommy, everyone's freakin' me out a bit...even her. She's so calm and at ease and I don't want to suspect her for some reason. Which in turn makes me worry about her. Ah, teh condundrum.

Kitanna's behavior, like Hookbill's is a little alarming, but my gut feeling on her makes me think she is innocent. Like I said, I don't like it when people are so certain about someone or something, so Kitanna's back and forthness doesn't really speak "guilty" to me.

Legate's vote for Mith seems a little out of the blue to me...if I'm still alive toMorrow, I will be looking at that... Mith's behavior earlier in the game had me wondering, but lately I've felt her innocent. Still, her comments about being not gifted and so not such a bad lynch are kind of odd to me, considering she only has one vote, along with two other people.


i was merely entranced, if you will, by SPM's big words as usual, i shall try not to do it this time

Eh? Cute, he's playing "dumb." I know you're not stupid, Gil! (Or gullible.) Far from it. You may be too lazy to use proper capitalization and punctuation, but that's not stupidity. :p

++Gil Galad

I'm hopeful, but I feel like I'm overthinking things at the same time. Blegh.

Speaking of hope, I really hope everyone will vote toDay. Even just (yeah right, just...well, there were four to begin with) two wolves in this size of village can do a lot to sway the voting.

And since it's about...30 minutes or so till the deadline, I wonder if this is going to be another last minute fiasco. Just have to hope it's not the wolves diving in at the last minute. :rolleyes:

Edit: Crossed with Lal and Mith

I'm starting to wonder at Lal and Mith's perpetual...standoff. It seems like it has to be fabricated on at least one side. Or have you two been mortal enemies for some time now and I just don't know it? :p

[Mithalwen]

Durelin, I am being honest here and realistic.
.. I unexpectedly have a house guest for the weekend. I don't have net access at home and if I get online on Saturday it will be very briefly. However I signed up for the game and will do my best but part of me would like to be free of the commitment just becasue I can't do it justice. Sorry this should have gon on the admin htread perhaps (but I already flagged my availability).

As for Gil ... I know what you mean but I had wondered if he was gifted .... however his success at faithful spotting could obviously based on wolvish certainty. He has been so much more involved that I thought he had to have a special role. Of course I could be wrong....

[Kitanna]

Gil is usually hard to pin down because his posts are short and usually pretty rare. Normally I wouldn't pay much attention to him aside from a look at who he votes for. But I am alarmed with him now.

So far he has accused and voted for two known faithfuls and I believe it is more than dumb luck. Gil would be the perfect faithful to vote for his comrades without raising the suspicions of anyone. Most of the time I see Gil only lynched for unhelpfulness and little else.

I find it strange he has pegged two faithfuls from the beginning. I'm starting to think Gil has been looked over for too long.

++ Gil-Galad

[Mithalwen]

. Or have you two been mortal enemies for some time now and I just don't know it? :p


No usually we are good friends but the fact that she picked needlessly at my post and suspects me .... concentrates my suspicion ... bear in mind she "read me" right when I went Basil Fawlty in Di's game ...... she just seems wrong..

..and once I go off on one I can be hard to redirect...... :rolleyes:

[Durelin]

I wasn't questioning your future absence, Mith... :confused:

If there is serious fear Gil's a gifted I will withdraw my vote. But I hardly want him or his counterpart to verify that he is, so perhaps I will withdraw my vote now... But I am even more uncertain about everyone else, particularly the other two people who already have a vote.

Argh...15 minutes for me to make up my mind...

I have had bad feelings about Lalaith this entire game, but I have yet to vote for her. She's been so bold and beligerent that I thought her too out in the open to be a wolf, and her voting record.....

Edit: Cross with Mith and Kitanna

[Mithalwen]

Of course if Gil were a wolf... his compadres might have anticipated that he would have had a short shelf life ...

think if Gil say got lynched v early (not unprecedented) ..the fact that he had pointed the finger at SpM and TGWBS might reduce suspicion on them..on the other hand if we had taken the "Gil being Gil" approach and let him live ..and one ofthe others had been lynched ... he might even have looked seer like.... (though of course the true seer was revealed before that could happen)...

[Mithalwen]

I am not certain ..... but ..... better vote than not

++Gil Galad

[Durelin]

I don't want to talk about the gifteds too much, so I feel like I can't really explain why I'm going to keep my vote for Gil...but it stands as it is.

Six minutes left...is Lalaith the only one left to vote?

Edit: Cross with Mith...duh, Mith still had to vote, too....

[Lalaith]

and suspects me
Blimey O'Reilly, girl....pot meet kettle. :rolleyes:

Anyway I think this Gil bandwaggon is totally misguided.

++MITHALWEN

Although the more I think about it the more I'd have preferred to vote for Hookbill, had he stood any chance of being lynched.

[Mithalwen]

I don't want names named... I was jus texplaining my thought process....... I do stand by that notorious first post :rolleyes:

[Mithalwen]

Blimey O'Reilly, girl....pot meet kettle. :rolleyes:

Anyway I think this Gil bandwaggon is totally misguided.

++MITHALWEN

Although the more I think about it the more I'd have preferred to vote for Hookbill, had he stood any chance of being lynched.

He might have done if you had deigned ot vote before literally the last minute ... :rolleyes:

[Mithalwen]

Ah, by my saul thou'lt dree thy weird! Begone, were-wolf, till the day o' doom!

[Macalaure]

After long days of strife and argument there came a day at last where the villagers’ opinion was almost unanimous. They knew now whom to blame for all the atrocious nightly deeds.

“Gil-Galad it is!” Kitanna cried “Let us tie him up and hang him!”

“Can you not see the error of your decision? I am no Faithful!” Gil-Galad said in his defense, but it was futile. Already Mithalwen and Durelin had overwhelmed him and tied him up. Much more Gil brought forward, ever growing more desperate and pleading for his life.

“You are making a graver mistake than you are aware of!” he said, but the others simply laughed at him.

“We know that you are a Faithful. There is no need now to deny it. You have Eressëan blood; half a Noldo you are!” Kitanna explained, and she did not say it with love, not in these days.

Finally, he was brought to the gallows. Muttering and silent curses were the last things that were heard from Gil-Galad, before Kitanna operated the trap-door with satisfaction.

“Rejoice, o Anadûne! Another Faithful hath bitten thy dust!”


But Lalaith spoke up silently: “Um, shouldn’t we at least check whether he truly was faithful?”

“Gladly I will do as you bid me” answered Kitanna, searching Gil-Galad’s hanging body “For a proof of Gil-Galad’s guilt let me now show you his... ranger sword?... engraved with runes for the bane of Eru?”

“But... but didn’t we say that he was a Faithful?” stuttered Hookbill petrified.

“But that does not make it so.” answered Lalaith, shaking her head.

The Númenoreans have lynched their ranger, their protector in the sunless hours. Affected they walked back to their village, now fearing the night.


For the dark was no longer wholesome in this land.


*~*


The Dead:

Macalaure (mod) - brutally killed by Faithfuls in Night One
Garin (ordo) - decapitated with a scythe on Day One
Holbytlass (ordo) - committed suicide to revive Garin in Night Two
The Might (ordo) - committed suicide to help Holbytlass reviving Garin in Night Two
Roa_Aoife (Tar-Míriel / cobbler) - stabbed to death on Day Two
Rikae (High Priest of Annatar / seer) - killed and reformed into a ship by Faithfuls in Night Three
Glirdan (ordo) - another one who committed suicide to revive Garin
Brinniel (ordo) - executed on Day Three
Rune Son of Bjarne (ordo) - disassembled by the Faithfuls in Night Four
the guy who be short (were-faithful) - flew from the Land of the Star with no star to guide him on Day Four
Mänwe (ordo) - killed by a malfunctioning catapult on Day Four
Nogrod (ordo) - received the Gift of Eru in Night Five
The Saucepan Man (were-faithful) - stoned to death on Day Five
Kath (ordo) - made into fish fodder in Night Six
Gil-Galad (ranger) - hanged on Day Six


The Living:

Durelin
Hookbill the Goomba
Kitanna
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mithalwen
Thinlómien

[Macalaure]

The revealing of the ranger had made the Faithfuls wary. There were some mighty warriors hidden among the otherwise so perfectly peaceful and nonviolent villagers. This night they advanced with great caution and sneaked to the hut of their victim silently. To their surprise, though not to their comfort, they found the door open. Carefully the three figures entered the room. In the dim light they saw their victim lying in her bed, fast asleep. Without a sound they gathered around the bed and drew their swords and on a silent command two of them mercilessly stabbed the sheets and whatever lay beneath them. Then they took away the shredded cloth to find that under it there was...

Nothing but sliced pillows.

They had been fooled! In fear they turned around to protect themselves against what ever attack. And they were right in doing so, because in this second, from a dark corner of the room, Thinlómien sprang onto them with naked blade. Two of the Faithfuls quickly caught their wits and jumped aside, but one hesitated too long. Several quick stabs of Thinlómien’s sword dispatched him.

Not wasting a moment, the other Faithfuls attacked the hunter in the nick of time, forcing a sword through both, her chest and her back. Assuring their success, they twisted their blades and cut Thinlómien in half.

“That was slightly more nerve-wrecking than I expected” said one of the two, breathing heavily.

“You are right, but in the end, we have brought our victim to death.” answered the other “Let us hope we will have an easier play the coming nights.”

They went to their fallen comrade and sighed.

“This was frighteningly close.”

“Indeed. I admit now that it was a good idea to bring this straw puppet. It saved our lives tonight”


*~*


The Dead:

Macalaure (mod) - brutally killed by Faithfuls in Night One
Garin (ordo) - decapitated with a scythe on Day One
Holbytlass (ordo) - committed suicide to revive Garin in Night Two
The Might (ordo) - committed suicide to help Holbytlass reviving Garin in Night Two
Roa_Aoife (Tar-Míriel / cobbler) - stabbed to death on Day Two
Rikae (High Priest of Annatar / seer) - killed and reformed into a ship by Faithfuls in Night Three
Glirdan (ordo) - another one who committed suicide to revive Garin
Brinniel (ordo) - executed on Day Three
Rune Son of Bjarne (ordo) - disassembled by the Faithfuls in Night Four
the guy who be short (were-faithful) - flew from the Land of the Star with no star to guide him on Day Four
Mänwe (ordo) - killed by a malfunctioning catapult on Day Four
Nogrod (ordo) - received the Gift of Eru in Night Five
The Saucepan Man (were-faithful) - stoned to death on Day Five
Kath (ordo) - made into fish fodder in Night Six
Gil-Galad (ranger) - hanged on Day Six
Thinlómien (hunter) - cut in half by the Were-Faithfuls in Night Seven


The Living:

Durelin
Hookbill the Goomba
Kitanna
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mithalwen

[Lalaith]

Oh great. When I said the Gil bandwaggon was misguided, I little realised quite how misguided it was. Not only killing our ranger, but also outing our hunter. Only two people defended Gil and clearly one of them had to be the hunter. It obviously wasn't me - Gil suspected me and I when I was about to be lynched, I would either have died quietly, taking either Saucie or guy with me, or I would have outed myself. So the wolves knew it had to be Lommy.

I fear we really are shafted, innocents. A quiet village, our hunter (and one of our most perceptive and trusted players) gone.
I hoped Lommy would take someone with her. But we have to work with what we have. She would have submitted a list of two, and neither of those two were guilty. We have to work out who those two could have been.

To help us - now that the real Hunter is dead, I will reveal my theory of yesterday.

I think Kath was killed because the wolves thought she was the ranger.

Earlier that Day, Kitanna gave a list of three suspects. Then Kath questioned her choice. Remember the Ranger and Hunter know of each other, but cannot communicate. The Hunter was at that point (Saucie had not yet been killed) submitting a list of three to the Mod God. So this could have been interpreted as the Ranger attempting to communicate with the Hunter. I myself wondered at that time if Kitanna was the Hunter and Kath the ranger, and I hoped the wolves would not pick up on it.
So, I believe the wolves thought this way, also.

Now, if my theory is correct, it absolves Kitanna from guilt. I also think that Lommy, judging by her vote of yesterday, had Kitanna atop of her Hunter list. Yet no-one died with her.
Then, look at Kitanna's list of suspects. If the wolves thought she was the Hunter, would they not kill her, if her list was a list of innocents? Two innocents with one blow. On that list was Hookbill, follwed by Gil, and then myself.
Gil was, as we know, innocent. As am I. (Besides which, I was clearly third and by this time Saucie was dead, so only two names would be allowed).
Top of the list was Hookbill.
This looks very bad for him. This is why I suspect him, strongly. I also suspect Durelin and Mith.

Legate, I feel confident about you. I think you feel confident about me. We need to vote together today if we can survive. Kitanna, by my theory, is also innocent. Perhaps if we three can agree to vote together, we can survive against the two remaining wolves.

And one of Durelin, Mith or Hookbill must also be innocent.
I wish Lommy had been clearer as to who she put on her hit list. Reading through Thinlomien's posts, I am inclined to think she put Durelin on her kill list. Which would in theory absolve her. I don't know.

What I do know is that if we do not kill a wolf today, we all die.

[Lalaith]

Oh, I've just realised of course the Hunter does not kill an innocent if s/he is killed by wolves, only if s/he is lynched.
Does that make a difference to the decision of the wolves to kill Kath rather than Kitanna, if they thought they were the Hunter/Ranger pair? I don't know.

[Lalaith]

I am reasonably confident of Lommy's innocence and am inclined to believe gil and Durelin are innocent .... Gil has been on the money all the way through and the fact I agree with him now is encouraging ......


Look what Mith says earlier in the day...and she ends up voting for Gil, with little or no explanation.
Hmm.
Innocents, I think this is a wolf.

[Durelin]

God I feel so stupid... :o

We are but six, and two among us our wolves...we have no wild cards anymore, no protection...and you're all scary!

Lalaith, you're making sense, though...finally. ;)

I think it quite likely that Lommy would have had Kitanna on her list, but I am not sure who else. We're just lucky (hah, yeah, right) that this type of Hunter does not take innocents down with them in the Night...

Considering the situation we're in, I'm willing to work on the assumption that Kitanna is innocent. I think we kind of have to, because otherwise we're just a mob pointing fingers yet again.

The fact that Lommy voted for Kitanna, along with the good possibility that the wolves have as sharp of eyes as Lalaith does in spotting a possible Ranger-Hunter communication, makes me comfortable with Kitanna's innocence. And the fact that Lalaith has gone through all the trouble to prove this, and suggested the Kath kill was a likely Ranger-slaying attempt makes me feel a lot better about her than I have this entire game. Things are looking a little clearer to me. At least the death of the Hunter has given us some information to work with.

I have thought Hookbill's overly cautious and "oh, don't look at me, I'm new at this" thing was hiding something more, and his vote for Gil yesterDay made me wonder about him even more. Perhaps at the start of a bandwagon lynch of the Ranger is a pretty un-safe place to hide, but that late in the game, getting the Gifteds I imagine would be top priority, especially if they know each other's identity.

Mith's behavior near the end of the voting and at the end was odd... She suddenly warns about Gil possibly being a Gifted, she said before that she thinks him innocent, and then she votes for him anyway... Why? To be lost among the other Gil voters, or just to make sure he couldn't be saved? If she is a wolf, then that will explain all of my confusion about her rather dramatic behavior... I was rather convinced she was innocent until late yesterDay. Perhaps I should feel doubly stupid?

My stomach is killing me, so I'm going to chill for a bit, but I'll be back...

I can tell you right now, though, that my vote will very likely go for either Hookbill or Mith. I will hold off voting as long as I can, though...whoever dies toDay has to be a wolf. There are still four of us innocents out there, so please, please be here and vote!! We haven't lost yet!

[Durelin]

Does that make a difference to the decision of the wolves to kill Kath rather than Kitanna, if they thought they were the Hunter/Ranger pair?

Actually I think it might back up your theory more. Because if they thought Kath and Kitanna a Ranger-Hunter pair, then they went after Kath instead of Kitanna because they thought her the Ranger and wanted to get the Hunter lynched...? It doesn't prove anything on it's own, but...

Agh, I feel so alone. It's way way too quiet.

[Durelin]

Well, I need to get to bed and unfortunately I don't think I'll be back before the deadline. :( Darn this Catholic guilt that makes me say I'll do something on the weekend that I really really don't want to do...particularly when it gets in the way of WW...

Quick concern about Lalaith - her "Anyway I think this Gil bandwaggon is totally misguided" turned out nice and strategic. Then her "I'd rather have voted for Hookbill if there was any possibility of him getting lynched" bugs me because she didn't drive very hard for his lynching. Playing it safe?

Anyway, I have to vote now... I have felt uneasy about Hookbill the entire game, and his vote for Gil yesterDay looks the most wolfish to me of any of the votes for Gil. On the other hand, Mith's switch on Gil seems really odd to me. But her vote wasn't necessary to lynch him, was it? So then it would be a wasted bold move for a wolf...

I'll go with what my gut has been telling me for a while...

++Hookbill

Please, other innocents, vote toDay!!

[Lalaith]

her "I'd rather have voted for Hookbill if there was any possibility of him getting lynched" bugs me because she didn't drive very hard for his lynching. Playing it safe?

Nothing sinister there. My worries about Hookbill were mostly related to my theory which I could only spell out today. I couldn't argue a case for his lynching without explaining my reasons...

I'm now worried that perhaps Lommy changed her list after yesterDay's events. And that it wasn't Kitanna and Durelin on it after all. Perhaps she's screaming in frustration from beyond the grave.

I will not be around toNight after 5pm. Which is nice and handy for any wolves.
But I will post some analysis in an hour or so.
Where IS everyone? Mith and Hookbill have both said they can't be around much.
Kitanna? Legate?

[Mithalwen]

I have dashed out while my house guest is in teh bath. This may be my only visit! so I may have to vote quickly.

The reason I voted for Gil despite my words and doubts was that while my vote was pointless for the lynch registering any vote yesterday would protect me from summary removal if I couldn't get on line today (real probability) and would keep me in the game assuming I survived ..

Now I am sure a few of you will say that this is becasue I am a wolf but it is just because I am innocent and the village needs me.... to make up the numbers at least.

durelin I share your concern about Lalaith ..that was really fishy given the timing..

[Lalaith]

Hmm...this is actually pretty fishy. *points up*

Durelin is happy to accept my analysis, eg by accepting that Kitanna is probably innocent. Yet she departs with a slight attempt to discredit me.
If you think I'm not to be trusted, Durelin, why do you trust my theories?

Then Mith leaps in, not with any speculation about Lommy and her list (which frankly should be the focus of any innocent today, as it one of the few pieces of evidence we have) but jumping on this comment instead.

I'm half way through a big analysis of Durelin, Hookbill and Mith, and I've got some interesting things. I've got to go out now, but I'll be back later this afternoon to post them up and decide on my vote.

[Mithalwen]

Especially since during the day all she said was I'm a bit worried about Hookbill a couple of times with no supporting evidence.... Hookbill is worrying by his quietness and his I'm a novice I keep quite type approach but this seems like a back covering exercise sine money was not put where mouth was.

I am inclined to think that Hookbill and Lalaith are our remaining wolves and Lalaith was covering her back.

I do however think it unlikely that Lommy would not have someone she had voted for on her list which seems to put Kitanna in the clear.

Durelin ... seems least suspicious of the rest followed by Legate (though he is wrong about me :cool:).

Now while I am surest about Lalaith she has indicated that she is after my blood and Legate may well be consistent...

I know that if you lynch me it is game over ...... so since I am unlikely to get in the time I am left enough support for a Lalaith lynch and Durelin has already voted this is the best option


++ Hookbill the Goomba

I may be able to return this afternoon and if I do will reconsider ...

[Lalaith]

This, along with what I've got so far in my analysis, tells me that Mith is almost certainly a wolf and the other wolf is probably Durelin. I was waiting to see which 2 of my trio of suspects would vote together.

++MITHALWEN

If any of the rest of you need convincing I'll be back with my analysis soon.

(Of course, I might be barking up completely the wrong tree. My Lommy-list theory might be completely wrong and the wolves might be Kitanna and Durelin after all. Or Kitanna and Hookbill, for that matter.
Or Legate might be the most fantastically convincing faux-innocent newbie in the history of Werewolf. But given the way the votes have gone already.

Back later.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, seems our situation is not very nice now. But as long as we have at least something to lean on, there is hope of getting the Faithfuls.

I think Lalaith's and Durelin's observation on Kitanna probably being innocent is quite logical. Maybe we should consider it as a little glimpse of luck in the troubles of yesterDay - we have a highly probable innocent to lean on. And although Lalaith pointed out that there could have been a change in Lommy's list, I think it improbable, since Kitanna voted for Gil, which would only deepen the suspicion, not eased it. So yes, I am ready to consider Kitanna innocent, which leaves out one person of the Faithfuls.

Since many votes are already cast, seems there is nothing much new anyway I could bring forth, and I even don't want to, since confusion could be dangerous. After I re-read what happened in the end of yesterDay, I reconsidered everything and the evidence now seems to strenghten the theory of Mithalwen being a Faithful. Yesterday she said things about Gil-Galad which seem strange, and even though she explains her vote here, this does not exclude the possibility the vote was good for her. Well, anyway, the main point is that our situation allows us only to lynch a Faithful toDay, or everything goes to... Valinor. And since I don't find more evidence against anyone different than Mithalwen, I think this is the choice.

++Mithalwen

[Lalaith]

First off – It is highly unlikely we’re seeing any wolf-on-wolf voting today. Why should they? Get a villager lynched and they win. So if Hookbill is a wolf, both Durelin and Mith are innocent. If Mith is a wolf, both Legate and I are innocent.

But....if I am right about Lommy’s list, then Kitanna is innocent.
Mith, Hookbill and I however are all looking suspect because Lommy seems to definitely say she’s not going after any of us.
Her feelings about Durelin and Legate are ambiguous. She says she doesn’t know. Would the wolves take the risk of gambling on this. Argh. It doesn’t make sense, because Hookbill and Mith cannot both be wolves, if I’m right about my first point. And I know I’m not a wolf. What is the combination? Legate and Hookbill are another possibility.
So – possible wolf combinations:
Mith-Durelin
Legate-Hookbill

I could in theory be matched with anyone except Mith
Kitanna could in theory be matched with anyone, too.
Question – how valid is my Kath/Kitanna theory? If it is, the Legate-Hookbill combination looks more credible. Is that why Durelin was so ready to accept it?


Ok, lets look at voting records.
Hookbill –
He votes for Manwe (an innocent) and apologises. No wolf was up for lynching that day except Saucie, with one vote from the Cobbler. So nothing particularly interesting there.
Day Two – He does not vote
Day three – Aside from Hookbill himself, everyone who was up for lynching that day was a a known innocent. (I obviously know I am an innocent.) He votes for Manwe, at a time when Brinniel was almost certain to be lynched. Hookbill’s vote came from Kitanna and he was never in any real danger.
Day four – His vote for Saucie here speaks well for him. It was instrumental in getting him lynched (if Modfire catapults had worked correctly!)
Day five – he votes Gil. Apologising. Why?
Day six – he votes Gil again. As he’s only played once, he may not be familiar with Gil’s playing style, so this is possibly forgivable.
Day seven – yet to vote

Guy, in his analysis, thinks he’s “not much to worry about”

Mith –
Day one, votes for me. The only vote I get that day.
Day two – this is interesting. Votes for Saucie, bringing him up to 2 votes – and defends Roa’s right to live Perhaps a bold move for a wolf confident that most people would vote to lynch the cobbler.
Day three – votes for me but switches to Brinniel at last minute. Why switch from one innocent to another? This is a vote which speaks in her favour. Perhaps wolf-mith doesn’t want to be accused of a safe vote again.
Day four – votes for me, just after Saucie does.
Day five – votes for Saucie, at a time when he looks a fairly safe lynch.
Day six, votes for Gil, at the last minute, when he’s safely lynched.
Day seven votes Hookbill.

Guy suspects her on day one but doesn’t vote for her. He clears her on day two but still often raises doubts about her. Sauce on the other hand is inclined to defend her. In his post 379 of suspects he leaves her out altogether. Carelessness? Freudian slip? She raises the point of Lommy’s Glirdan slip, jumped on by both Saucie and guy.

Then there is this business of her vendetta against me. Psychologically, I think a Mith-wolf would go after me like this, if we were on opposing sides – she would prefer that to deviously smarming. She is a nice person, even if she is a filthy Elendil-lover.

(By the way, I just read guy’s analysis of me from Day Four. I can’t believe I didn’t notice that before. He completely lied about who my suspects had been. He said I’d suspected Brinniel, himself and Durelin, and been neutral about Mith and Saucie. absolute nonsense. Durelin was my top suspect, followed by guy, saucie and Mith. Why did he lie? Carelessness? Or some darker purpose?)

Durelin – Day one, votes for Manwe.
Day two - votes for Roa, which brings her clear of Saucie, who had 3 votes
Day three – votes for Rune, bringing him up to three votes.
(On day four, Guy spends a long time analysing her and finds her neutral. He goes on about how long this analysis took him. In order to put someone else off? “It’ll take ages and you won’t find anything of interest anyway.”)
Day four – Votes for Legate, then quickly changes vote to Saucie. This could of course have got him (Saucie) lynched, and speaks in her favour.
Day five – votes for Saucie, second after Lommy. She herself already has 2 votes, from Saucie and Gil.
Day six – votes for Gil
Day seven – votes Hookbill

Kitanna –
Day one - Garin
Day two – does not vote
Day three – votes for Hookbill, quite early. The only vote he got that day.
Day four – votes for me. This puts me in a very vulnerable lynching position.
Day five – votes for Saucie, reluctantly.
Day six – votes for Gil.
Her voting record is terrible and if it wasn’t for Lommy’s list and my Kath theory I’d think her a wolf.
Guy thought her innocent

Legate –
Day one - Manwe
Day two - Votes for Roa, at a time when she is well clear of Saucie.
Day three – votes for Brinniel
Day four – This was the most wolfy day yet, lynch-wise. Legate does not vote. Explains why on admin thread.
Day five – votes Saucie, at a time when his lynching is fairly foregone conclusion.
Day six – votes for Mith, but at a time when Gil looks fairly set for lynching.
Day seven -votes for Mith again.

Guy is ‘uneasy’ but thinks his opinionated style speaks of his innocence. Saucie does not suspect him either.
Hmm...I was under the impression Legate’s voting record was better than this.

For fairness sake, here is my record.
Day one, Holby, switch to Manwe
Day two, Roa, middle
Day three, Brinniel fairly early
Day four – guy, switch to Saucie at last minute
Day five – Saucie, early
Day six Mithalwen, late
Day seven Mithalwen, early.

So....all this makes me feel a little confused. The Durelin/Mith combination just feels right, instinct-wise, but the voting record of Legate, and Hookbill’s position on Kitanna’s list, makes me uneasy.

For the moment, I will let my vote stand.

[Kitanna]

So I was horribly surprised to find Gil the ranger. I really thought we had gotten the third faithful.

So, unfortunately this will be my only post for the day. And I'm going to return to one of my suspects, Hookbill. I probably should have voted for him yesterday, but I was certain of Gil (obviously not so certain in the end).

I've stated several times what I think about Hookbill on days past. None of that has changed. I still believe he has been hiding behind this mask of newbieness and he's trying to lead us away from himself by saying he's a "bad judge of character." That's covering one's backside before anything has even happened.

++ Hookbill

I just hope I'm right this time.

[Lalaith]

Ok.

Even if Hookbill turns up to vote (in which case he will vote for Mith to save himself, whether he is guilty or innocent) then he is now dead, as he was first to reach three votes.

Kitanna, I'm really worried about your choice. If we get it wrong, we all die.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I just hope I'm right this time.
Well, I don't want to sound like Gandalf Stormcrow, but... if you are not right, then you have sealed the fate of the whole island.

Not that there wouldn't be a possibility that Hookbill is Faithful, but... he still looks probably more innocent to me than Mithalwen. That "honest reluctance" of him seems really honest. I hope your opinion on him is at least that strong that you can with clear conscience vote him. If not, I'd rather re-consider, if possible...

P.S. Now I understand why all you folks play Werewolf. These feelings you sometimes have when you play it cannot be experienced by any other means.

[Lalaith]

Well, I must say, I do think it is a little odd that Kitanna wafts in, clearly doesn't talke much interest in the discussion that's gone on today, and just votes on a previous hunch...if I hadn't cleared her in my own mind, as I said, I'd say it looked very wolfish.
I hope that despite my misgivings, Hookbill is indeed guilty. But I disliked the silence of the past two days and I fear that this has been a village killed by apathy.....I must go now and I won't be back before deadline. I hope it is au revoir. If we do have a wolf in Hookbill, and I do not survive the night, please remember the wolf pairs...Legate will almost certainly be the other wolf.
Although I doubt it. :(

[Macalaure]

Nervousity ruled this day in Númenor, so much that many of its remaining inhabitants fell silent almost the whole time. Long Lalaith warned them all not to be hasty with their judgements, but to little avail.

“Whatever!” it was responded “Let’s just kill Hoobill!”

Quickly and with little thought the Númenoreans grabbed Hookbill, who was too shocked to utter a word.

Lalaith and Kitanna took his legs, Mithalwen and Durelin his arms, but the Legate of Amon Lanc took his head. On his command they all pulled and tore his body to parts.

“That’s it!” Mithalwen cheered “Another Faithful lynched! We’re on a good way!”

But the Legate of Amon Lanc smiled: “I would not be so sure about this.” and Durelin joined in the laughter.


*~*


~ Among the Exiles many believed that the summit of the Meneltarma, the Pillar of Heaven, was not drowned for ever, but rose again above the waves, a lonely island lost in the great waters; for it had been a hallowed place, and even in the days of Sauron none had defiled it. ~

~ Thus it was that great mariners among them would still search the empty seas, hoping to come upon the Isle of Meneltarma, and there to see a vision of things that were. ~

But the visions that they saw were different from what they expected. Rotting huts lined the beaches and rotting bodies lay all about the island, some of them gruesomely mauled. On the very peak there was a corpse ripped into five pieces. Around it three more lay, each hacked and stabbed in unspeakable ways, as if killed in one unholy frenzy of bloodthirstiness. Just like their stomaches, the mariners were about to turn, but there they saw two more dead bodies, haggard like succumbed to long hunger and thirst. Next to them, only two words were written into the dirt:

“We won!”


In terror the mariners fled from the island. Without looking back once they sailed back to their Lands of Exile. When asked what they had seen on their long travels and whether the Isle of Meneltarma still rose upon the waves, they recalled what they sought to forget, and all they said was: “All roads are now bent”, so that noone should ever venture again to that horrid place.


*~*


The Dead:

Macalaure (mod) - brutally killed by Faithfuls in Night One
Garin (ordo) - decapitated with a scythe on Day One
Holbytlass (ordo) - committed suicide to revive Garin in Night Two
The Might (ordo) - committed suicide to help Holbytlass reviving Garin in Night Two
Roa_Aoife (Tar-Míriel / cobbler) - stabbed to death on Day Two
Rikae (High Priest of Annatar / seer) - killed and reformed into a ship by Faithfuls in Night Three
Glirdan (ordo) - another one who committed suicide to revive Garin
Brinniel (ordo) - executed on Day Three
Rune Son of Bjarne (ordo) - disassembled by the Faithfuls in Night Four
the guy who be short (were-faithful) - flew from the Land of the Star with no star to guide him on Day Four
Mänwe (ordo) - killed by a malfunctioning catapult on Day Four
Nogrod (ordo) - received the Gift of Eru in Night Five
The Saucepan Man (were-faithful) - stoned to death on Day Five
Kath (ordo) - made into fish fodder in Night Six
Gil-Galad (ranger) - hanged on Day Six
Thinlómien (hunter) - cut in half by the Were-Faithfuls in Night Seven
Hookbill the Goomba (ordo) - fifthed on Day Seven
Kitanna (ordo) - violently killed by victorious Faithfuls on Day Seven
Lalaith (ordo) - viciously killed by victorious Faithfuls on Day Seven
Mithalwen (ordo) - bestially killed by victorious Faithfuls on Day Seven
Durelin (were-faithful) - victoriously starved to death
Legate of Amon Lanc (were-faithful) - victoriously starved to death

[Macalaure]

Since there are 2 Faithfuls and 3 Ordos left and it makes little sense to wait a day for Durelin and Legate to decide whom to eat for lunch and whom for supper, the game is now over.

Congrats to the two surviving Faithfuls and to their two martyrous companions!

edit: this means all the dead may now rise from their (non-)graves and start discussing! :)

[Macalaure]

Here's what you've all been waiting to see:


Seer (Rikae):

Night 1: Roa_Aoife - Tar-Míriel
Night 2: Nogrod - ordo
Night 3: Thinlómien - hunter


Hunter (Thinlómien):

Day 1: Rikae, Durelin, Holbytlass, Nogrod
Night 2: Nogrod, Kitanna, Brinniel, Hookbill
Day 2: Roa, tgwbs, Durelin, Kitanna
Night 3: tgwbs, Kitanna, Brinniel, Rune
Day 3: Kitanna, Durelin, tgwbs, Saucepan Man
Night 4: Saucepan Man, tgwbs, Durelin, Kitanna
Day 4: Hookbill, Saucepan Man, tgwbs, Durelin
Night 5: Saucepan Man, Durelin, Kitanna
Day 5: Saucepan Man, Durelin, Kitanna
Night 6: Kath, Legate
Day 6: Kitanna, Legate
Night 7: Kitanna, Hookbill


Ranger (Gil-Galad):

Night 2: Rikae
Night 3: Mänwe
Night 4: Nogrod
Night 5: Durelin
Night 6: Mithalwen


Cobbler (Roa_Aoife):

Day 1: Nogrod, Legate, Brinniel, Durelin

[Nogrod]

Well, that was fun!

And kudos to all the Faithfuls for winning, especially Durelin and Legate who played it beautifully to the end! Cheers!

I told you tgwbs, Spm and Durelin were wolves! Why didn't you believe me? :confused: :)

And Oh my! Lommy had a Faithful in her list basically every Night but the one she was killed!

Thanks Macalaure for an entertaining game!

PS. Spm, like I said in the thread, you looked soo suspicious as you played just like I would have played had I been a Faithful... :D

[Lalaith]

Argh! Legate-Durelin...the one combo I didn't think of....I tried out all the others. I knew I was missing something....*falls to floor in frustrated tantrum*

*Recovers*
So lynching Mith wouldn't have helped us anyway.

Fantastic play, you two. And everyone. Legate, that was a bravura newbie performance and no mistake.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Thanks, Lalaith. ;) And all of you, check the Admin thread, you have a present there (with my long speech, as well).

Nogrod, you were really correct in your clairvoyance! Shame (or: luck ;) ) people didn't believe you that much.

As well as Lommy, I was quite scared of her being the Hunter. Seeing the list it was quite a miracle she dropped me the last Night.

[Roa_Aoife]

So, at last, you can find out what I was thinking with all th crazy playing.

Defense of Nogrod/ attack of SPM? To tell the truth, I was fairly certain Nogrod was innocent by the end of Day 1, and I was positive SPM was guilty by the start of Day 2. However, as cobbler, I needed a way to let the wolves know who I was with out tipping off the rest of the village. I couldn't put a hint in my post- it was too much of a risk that someone else would pick it up. I decided that the best way was to vehemently defend someone on Day 1, and put that person at the top of the list that would be sent to wolves. Incredibly obvious for them, but no one else would be any the wiser. I wasn't concerned about SPM geting lynched on the chance that he was a faithful- has he ever been lynched on Day 1? Note, that after a slight mention of my suspicion against him in the beginning of Day 2, and an accusation when he instantly jumped on the "Let's kill Roa" bandwagon, I pretty much dropped my case against him. I took Durelin's "Roa's analysis are helpful and not suspicious in the least," as affirmation that the Faithful had gotten the message.

Besides, going after SPM like that was fun. He's got to be if not the most than one of the most challenging Day-time prey in the first few Days of the game. :D

Day 2 and all the analysis- note that I found almost everyone slightly suspicious. It was, as some guessed, a giant smoke screen meant to confuse and point everyone in any direction that they wanted to go. As Nogrod said, anyone can be painted black, and if you have one person already pointing suspicion in the direction you were leaning, then it's that much easier to be fooled by it.

(Also, I did agree with all the points Legate made, and I meant it when I said he reminded me of me in my first game. I just meant my first game as a wolf. ;) )

After Rikae came out with her revelations, I didn't really believe that I ever had a chance of surviving. It was fine for me, since as Mith pointed out the village would be at a disadvantage numerically. When I read Rikae's post revealing me, I thought about just accepting my fate and then flooding the post with nonsense, but then I remember that I never do that, and so I decided to go down kicking and screaming. Again, I never expected SPM or Rikae to be lynched in my place, I just wanted to draw as much attention to myself and the debate as possible. In the end, I just wanted Day 2 to be wasted.

And for future notice, I think I may start avoiding games with seers. I just can't get away from that. :rolleyes:

[Nogrod]

Should we decide where to go on with this discussion? It now seems to take place simultaneously on both here and in the admin thread...

As there are more "after-game" posts in the admin thread should we then concentrate the posts there?

[Macalaure]

Yup.

All post-game discussors, please go to the admin thread, for the reasons Nogrod gives. :)