Werewolf XXXI: The Unknown Enemies

[Mithalwen]

I am here .... just ponderingand possibly sulking ;)

[Mithalwen]

Gil would be the only other candidate. I need to have a closer look at him to see clearer.


Gil has fixated on me for some reason. I tend to suspect him becasue I know I am innocent (well I would say that wouldn't I?). However, I would point out that had I been a wolf there would have been a kill on night 2. No way would I have missed it. Smilarly, had I been a wolf I would not be so keen to remove the ambiguity of Xyzzy. Such players are gifts to wolves. Had I been a wolf Brinniel would nothave been my choice of kill. Far too obvious to kill someone who had suspected me so much .....

Strange and boring enough for you.....?

[Macalaure]

Funny you didn't point at Roa with that - who actually brought this issue back and used it to lay suspicion on me and Legate...

And I do disagree with you a bit. When something like that is used as a suspicion-caster there are all the reasons to counter them - at least when they are clearly fabricated...

Clearly fabricated? If you say so...

Actually, it's not so much that you brought that thing up again: it's the length of it (esp. after having said: "And with that I'll shut my mouth with that discussion."). Even worse: you claim that it's a small correction. It's a whole paragraph!

Just like with the comment about lovers (adding: "it's probably insensible to go on speculating about those too much." to it), this looks like a wolf throwing out even two lures for people to discuss things that are irrelevant.

[Gil-Galad]

Sigh...

Gil-Galad ~ Keeps saying we are spread out in our suspicions, that he doesn't like what we are doing (and we have generally been on target so far) generally deterring us from things, doubtful of TGWBS's treachery, regularly suspicious vs. Mith and no-one else, which I think may be a way to keep us off track...

so many mis-conceptions...

Keeps saying we are spread out in our suspicions, - i said that once on the first day, that is it, please make sure you've reviewed over who you are voting for

that he doesn't like what we are doing (and we have generally been on target so far) generally deterring us from things, - i'm just receiving mixed messages from everyone and its confusing... as i stated before

doubtful of TGWBS's treachery - when did i say that??

regularly suspicious vs. Mith and no-one else, which I think may be a way to keep us off track... - easier to take on one person at a time then the whole vilalge... its common sense


and for Mith, i'm sorry, you are not yourself and it is bugging me way to much, i don't like it one bit and i must finish you off before i move on

++ Mithalwen


another defensive case, I have been casted as a wolf along with brinniel, why would i corner myself by killing off Brinniel?

next day, if i am still alive, i will look more closely at Roa and Macalaure

till then, good day my friends

[Nogrod]

Noggie, you're not helping your own cause. :p The alarming thing: everytime I played against an evil Nogrod, I felt about him this way! Mac, you're not helping your own cause. :p

Jokes aside. You are kind of doing the things a baddie would do.

First of all you shield the point made by saying that making of the point makes the maker look bad. So you haven't an answer, right? No one had suspected this so far and you were caught unarmed? :D

Secondly. I don't know how you have felt playing with me in the previous games (and whether you lie or beautify the truth in some way or not), but I happen to know you're wrong. So either your feelings are not much to be relied on or then you try purposefully to lead people astray. I know you others only have my word for it, but to me it's true enough to raise my eyebrows with Mac once again.

Thirdly. You seem to neatly downplay all the suggestions that Roa might not be a goodie. You've done that consistently since the dawn of Day1. Sorry, I've read the whole thread with my eye on that one thing as well. And you continue with it. Were you an innocent, you would not be that sure of it. You didn't say that Mith could deceive you either. Sure. And not of many others... But of all the people you leave Roa outside all doubt and f.ex. doubt Legate whom you know very well not to be a wolf! That is downright suspicious I say.

I was slightly thinking whether Mac and Roa were the lovers. Now I must say that Mac's reactions have strengthened my suspicions of that. They might be wolves too. Sure. But there is something wrong in there I say. What is it in the end I'm not sure (Menel might have surprises as he promised).

But seeing as I am that I'm suspecting two major forces in here I need to make a reservation for the common good. At least I will have to think this through once more. So please, don't you anyone make the nasty move Xyzzy made as he jumped on the first one he saw there was something up in the air against. Even though I suspect Roa somewhat, I really distaste the way Xyzzy voted for her.

If we have nothing better to go on this evening I might be again ready to vote for him as well. If he takes part as much he's done this far and if he behaves like he has behaved (jumped with the closest suspicion and disappeared with it), he will be a real threat - or at least too much of a gamble - to the village later on.

EDIT: Even worse: you claim that it's a small correction. It's a whole paragraph!C'mon my friend... Losing with actual arguments now are we?

[Rikae]

It seems to me our best bet is still analyzing Glirdan's interactions with the other players. Of the dead, he's the only one that actually knew anything, and the other wolves knew him, unlike TGWBS.

So, a bit of Day 1 analysis:




In his first post, he mentioned Brinniel and “those wizard type people” - Sixth and Mac, while in his second he mentions Brinniel again, Mith and Gil before using my post as a reason to suspect Roa, who turns around and immediately suspects him. While I wouldn't put sacrificing a fellow wolf beyond Roa (she's said she would do it in this game alone), I somehow doubt wolf-Gil would leap on the first hint of a suspicion like that if it was for a fellow wolf. He could just as easily have ignored it.

Sixth's comment “unlike Glirdan, who could well be a bad guy.” looked very suspicious at the time, probably too suspicious after the fact to actually be wolfish.

Lommy drew more attention to Glirdan when only Roa had already suspected him, even to the point of calling his post an “example from the classic spot-a-wolf book”.

Mac expressed a milder sort of suspicion toward Glirdan, saying he “raises one of my eyebrows” and “looks a bit bad”. This doesn't reflect favorably on Mac, as far as I'm concerned; he could hardly ignore a fellow wolf looking so suspicious, but he downplays the level of it while cautiously tossing a bit of suspicion in another direction with “Beware of those who try to discreetly encourage such discussions without taking active parts in them!”

Lommy votes for Glirdan with the disclaimer “it's never wise to judge on the basis of a few posts”.

Sixth votes for Glirdan “Death to you!”

Glirdan defends himself suspecting Lommy and Sixth, but chooses to vote for Sixth.


The Cobbler who be short weighs in , suspecting Lommy and Sixth, and defending Glirdan.

Legate, in his first post late in the day, includes gratuitous in-character stuff, suspects Sixth...for his comment on Glirdan, no less – and mentions Glir-wolf in one breath with Roa (who I'm inclined to think is innocent at this point) and yours truly (innocent) with the suggestion there's wolves involved in this “three way debate”, or specifically; “one wolfy sluggard could no problem hide in there”. A very suspicious comment, in my opinion, especially since Legate doesn't address the Glirdan issue directly.

Gil suspects Thin and Lommy. No mention of Glirdan.

Nogrod's comment on Glirdan is “Glirdy, then? He looks so bad again... but I would actually hesitate with lynching him once again on Day 1 because he looks suspicious.” Wolf handbook material right there; I may have been wrong to trust Nogrod.

Roa, in spite of her initial suspicion of Glirdan, votes for TGWBS. Slightly suspicious, though she gives several reasons.

Nogrod posts some he-looks-odd near suspicions of TGWBS, Legate, Sixth, and an even weaker parenthetical half-accusation of Glirdan.

Legate says he thinks TGWBS and Roa both innocent. (Not Glirdan related, but I always find these “two innocents” statements somewhat wolfish.)

Mith defends Roa, Glirdan seems “off, but sometimes people genuinely get the wrong head of the stick”, suggests lynching Xyzzy.

Legate gives a random seeming list of me, Lommy, and the wizards, Sixth and Mac...then some mild suspicion of Nogrod and Brinniel. No mention of Glirdan.

Nogrod states he feels “pretty uncomfortable with lynching Glirdy”

Mac suspects TGWBS, the “only other person to wave a flag is Glirdan, but I'd rather hear of him tomorrow.”

Nogrod groups Gil with Glirdan, says it's “like flipping a coin”. This is at the top of his list, then he says “I'm quite sure that at least one wolf dwells at the top of my list, most probably two.” A very bold statement indeed, if he's a wolf, and then he considers voting for one.

Legate again posts a long post with no mention of Glirdan...considering voting for Xyzzy, agreeing with Gil, suspecting Lommy and Nogrod.

Mac suspects Glirdan, but votes TGWBS.







My conclusions: Legate looks the worst to me, and I will probably vote for him; Nogrod is somewhat suspicious, as well.

[Macalaure]

Nogrod, why do you respond to the same post twice? First spontaneous, and now in this elaborate and sweetly ironic way? ;)


So either your feelings are not much to be relied on or then you try purposefully to lead people astray.Whether I try to lead people astray we will only know after the game is over - or I'm dead. I'm not sure of the reliability of my feelings, but I remember being called the one 'who is always right', by... you. I can't believe to read this mild irony above from the typing hands of an innocent Nogrod.


You seem to neatly downplay all the suggestions that Roa might not be a goodie. You've done that consistently since the dawn of Day1.Let's see. On Day One I indeed defended her - from Glirdan and tgwbs, known baddies. The rest of the time, I kept saying I find her innocent - which is simply what I do - without defending or downplaying anything at all.


But seeing as I am that I'm suspecting two major forces in here I need to make a reservation for the common good. At least I will have to think this through once more. So please, don't you anyone make the nasty move Xyzzy made as he jumped on the first one he saw there was something up in the air against. Even though I suspect Roa somewhat, I really distaste the way Xyzzy voted for her.

If we have nothing better to go on this evening I might be again ready to vote for him as well.You think Roa and I are lovers? What better thing do you need then? Vote one of us! :) You did the exact same thing you're doing now with your suspicion on tgwbs on Day One. xyzzy will be dealt with before the end, I'm convinced (and willing to take care of).

Btw: the votes are pretty spread already, so I would rather disencourage people to vote for xyzzy today.


C'mon my friend... Losing with actual arguments now are we?Not at all. You made a nice and pretty side discussion and tried to downplay it by saying it's small. It would have downplayed your own involvement in it if the debate really came to being, and that is a suspicious way, to me.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

One sideway (or maybe not?) thing at the beginning. As the lovers&co were mentioned here, I must say that more and more I get the feeling that there are not only some Lovers, but most likely we are a village of five Wolves, three Seers, four Lovers, one Mythomaniac and one Cultist. And maybe one Ranger as a bonus.

As I said earlier, I am probably not going after Lommy today, which brings me back to the suspects I had before, there was nothing which would sway my opinions in some drastic ways. Except for one person who moved to the "red line" for me.
I was waiting all the afternoon for Gil-Galad to post and now I am seriously considering to vote for him. Because something smells here. And please give me a confirmation that you see it as well and are just intentionally not posting about it, and tell me that I am "stupid newbie to even start about it, because this is a thing which is not to be debated publicly". Because otherwise I'd have to think you all overlooked it, or that I am just making up things (well, maybe I am).

Rikae, only to your thoughts of me not posting about Glirdan I can add that I mentioned him as much as Roa and you, because you all were in that "starting triangle" and it was quite probable there is at least one wolf among you, however, I could not tell who of you. I do not meddle in "mainstream discussions", because there are many people involved in them and I generally do not want to meddle in their debate unless I have any concern of supporting either of them. I generally rather watch from the outside and wait if someone of them slips or something like that. Because if I focused on that dispute mainly, it would deepen the concentration on this particular problem, which would help to make the village's view quite narrow. And this is not what we need.

[Macalaure]

Gil-Galad


#5 nothing

#31
Makes a good point about Lommy (a redundant statement from her)
Ties Lommy with Roa because of Lommy's defense of her (tied in good or evil)
I see his point on Lommy, though tying her with Roa is a stretch, I think. The comment on giftedness could be a slip - or not.

#38
Needs to vote: Lommy

#62
Returns to say if Lommy's a wolf then Roa and Six might be, too, or they're just confused and if she's innocent the other two also look that way.
This is a very vague statement, to be polite. But it's "If A is innocent, then B probably is, too" and not the trademark wolvish "If A is innocent, then B probably isn't"

----

#120 - his longest post ever
In the first part, he makes some fair points analysing the votes
Then it's not too clear to me how he comes from this to his suspect classification
His point on Six is bogus

What do you do with this. it starts really good and ends desastrous. However, I'm not sure whether it has been written with evil intent.

#122
He attacks Roa because she didn't like his point about Six. This really does look bad

#150
He still sees a connection between Roa and Lommy
tgwbs seems innocent to him (if no co-wolf is in danger, then a wolf might want to save a villager who causes distraction, or use him to get a defendable vote. But then, Gil usually isn't too eager about defendable votes. I (innocent) thought tgwbs innocent, too, at that time)
Votes Mith with reasons I don't share, but which I can understand somewhat

#156
He defends himself from Roa, quite offensely
Roa's accuse isn't that good in the first place, and though Gil's defense looks very weird, it seems genuine to me

#210
Says the votes are too spread and if tgwbs is a wolf, we will have to use ww-math

Huh?

----

#221 nothing

#233
Still suspicious of Mith. His reasons for it make no sense to me whatsoever

#254
He defends himself from Sixth, with fair points
Votes Mith because she bugs him
Will look at Roa and me if he survives (I'm not sure why he thinks he might be killed)


What can I say. Usually, this would have been enough to make me suspicious, but one has to use different measures when it comes to Gil (no offense ;) ). There are some suspicious things, but also a lot which is very typical for Gil. He remains watchworthy for me, but isn't one of my, now two, top suspects.

PS: Whatever it is you saw, Legate, I must've missed it.

[Macalaure]

A quick look at the votes:

xyzzy -> Roa
Six -> Gil (Roa 1, Gil 1)
Roa -> Nogrod (Roa 1, Gil 1, Nogrod 1)
Gil -> Mith (Roa 1, Gil 1, Nogrod 1, Mith 1)


In a village of 10, 4 is enough I would say.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

PS: Whatever it is you saw, Legate, I must've missed it.
Okay, okay, maybe I am really making things up. Let's ignore that part, at least for now.

Nevertheless, concerning today's vote of mine:

I am not going for Six nor xyzzy - one looks innocent and the other is almost not posting (although as someone poined out, if we leave xyzzy around here like that, he can be a dangerous factor even if he's innocent, like a non-guarded dynamite patron).
I am not going for Rikae nor Mac.
I am not going for Roa though I could, but there is no evidence that I would call "solid".
Neither I am going for Mithalwen, last day she was more or less cleared for me.
And not Lommy, as I said, not today.
So this leaves me with Nogrod&Gil-Galad.

If Gil is a wolf, he'd be quite dangerous as "quiet wolf". His behavior seems strange (for Gil, as much as I know him, which is not much, but from what it seems to me...) and in some times, not logical. Sometimes not logical at all. I know it is typical for Gil to "chaotically pop up like jack-in-the-box", but sometimes...
His going after Mith is also quite ridiculous. For example this:
I've always tried to catch the whole "sneaking-under-the-radar" move for Wolfs... so hopefully i caught me one Lupine...

++Mithalwen
And also this:
my longest WW post...ever...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
time for my math to come in now...
Maybe this was meant as signal for the Mathematician Cobbler TGWBS? Only to ponder, perhaps my imagination is just too wild.

Nogrod then... :rolleyes: Well, he says and does strange things still, nothing to dismiss my suspicions from start. I'll probably flip a coin, since I don't know if I could make anything sensible out of their (his&Gil's) posts.

[Macalaure]

Whatever you do, don't do it by flipping a coin. :)

[Mithalwen]

I have read through all the posts and am inclined to think:

Least suspicious

sixth wizard
Lommy
Roa

less suspicious/unsure

Rikae
Nogrod
Macalaure
Much more suspicious

Legate
xyzzy
Gil-galad


Xyzzy has done nothing to suggest any real level of interest in this game. I am sorry to harp on but I think the no kill suggests at least one disengaged wolf - and maybe onewho is victim of force majeure or not confident/experiencedenough to act alone.

I really don't like Legate's hanging around waiting to see which way the wind goes before making up his mind. And he has come to some funny decisions. Seems to me he could be a flying under the radar wolf.

Gil.....is making no sense. How the Angbandhe has the cheek to say I am out of character I don't know but being somewhat teed off isnot necessarily the best basis for a vote... however

I would be really surprised if there were not at least one wolf among these three,

Another little thing about Gil ...Glirdan had an attack of mentionitis before he attacked Roa in his first (?) post. He mentioned me, Brinniel and Gil. I am innocent, Brinniel was innocent, so that leaves me to wonder if Glirdan slipped one of his cohort in there as a "non-reference"

[Nogrod]

Nogrod then... :rolleyes: Well, he says and does strange things still, nothing to dismiss my suspicions from start. I'll probably flip a coin, since I don't know if I could make anything sensible out of their (his&Gil's) posts.Don't flip a coin and be ready to open your eyes. If for nothing else, remember what Roa said. I would never miss a kill as a wolf.

Well, if you decide to lynch me toDay or if the wolves kill me the next Night, please remember this then. I mean it was a bit odd how ready Rikae seemed to be to jump on me as she saw that there were some actual suspicions on me that existed (before that she had defended me slightly as to make me feel good about her?). In similar vein I'm a bit astonished how Roa's lead has taken Mac and now Legate with her. Well, she surely seems to have power to move minds.

Funny thing is that she can say these kinds of things and still people think her a genious: For example, Brinniel dismissed Lommy as a wolf, which looks very good for Lommy. However, Brinniel also promised to look more closely into Lommy and why she was being suspected toDay, had she been alive. This could A. be bad for Lommy, or B. be bad for the people who suspected Lommy. So they killed her to avoid this.Wow! :D

(Yes, I do think most highly of Roa as a ww-player but in this game she has been something of a disappointment - no flashing arguments, no heavenly analysis, no nothing arpousing real awe for her capabilities - or maybe she's forced to do something she doesn't like, f.ex. being tied to someone as a lover?)


Anyhow. This is beginning to look like a madhouse. Possibly Menel's surprises are beginning to bite at last? So I'm the only normal villager around, eh?

Some interesting stuff to come, anyhow. Wait a second.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I really don't like Legate's hanging around waiting to see which way the wind goes before making up his mind.
And who would want to cast his vote without pondering as much as he could, if he knows only about himself that he is innocent, but of the others everyone can be a wolf swaying votes? But if you are referring to yesterday, then know ye that this was actually what eased my suspicions on you in the first place. At that time I didn't know you are innocent, of course. I was waiting till you post, since from your last page performance yesterday I got a lil bit confused and suspicious. So I wanted to see your vote not being influenced by mine - I didn't want you to be in the position where you just add your vote to an "already built house" of someone. I wanted to see for myself whom you would choose. And, unexpectedly, this made me think of you better.

EDIT: Seeing Nog's post here promising posting "interesting stuff", I decided to save the second part of my post for a while and not to cast my vote yet, though I am probably already decided (no, don't worry, it wasn't flipping a coin).

[Mithalwen]

(Yes, I do think most highly of Roa as a ww-player but in this game she has been something of a disappointment - no flashing arguments, no heavenly analysis, no nothing arpousing real awe for her capabilities - or maybe she's forced to do something she doesn't like, f.ex. being tied to someone as a lover?)

.


Or she is an Ordo.... which I suspect .... there are players who really excel when they have a special task and rise to the occasion but may be lacklustre as an ordo... I don't think Roa is a wolf but I don't think this kind of game where there are so many unknowns is her thing ... cf Fea's game...

[Nogrod]

This is a long one, but please read for your own sake.

It's done with a mind to seek for problems. Deliberately. My wild idea that Mac and Roa are lovers made me try this. I'm not sure if that's the case anymore. It might be, though. But there's clearly something wrong with Mac.

It's only Day1 and 2. But looking at the clock made me stop right here. I've said a lot of Mac's posting toDay already.



Macanalysis (in the style of Devil’s advocate)

Day1

#16 Reasonable first post. Reminds us of those who would love to speculate on roles: we should beware those. The only one who arises suspicion that far is Glirdy.

Funnily it’s Roa who had thus far spoken most about the roles. Still there is no mention of Roa in the post. And at that point there clearly was none other who looked downright suspicious but Glirdan. Had he not said that Glirdy looked suspicious he would have been asked afterwards why didn’t he. So he was forced to do that.

#29 He says he doesn’t want to defend Roa but that he doesn’t see anything suspicious in her. Encourages talking with saying there are more stupid wolves around one might think. Says not happy to vote The Sixth as it’s his first game.

So in his first post he says speculating about roles is suspicious, in his second he says Roa (the main discusser of roles) isn’t suspicious at all... Also the point about stupid wolves is interesting. Maybe he was frustrated with the way Glirdy had played? Speaking on behalf of The Sixth is nice and good. Any good wolf takes care to have some nice air around him.

#32 Answers tgwbs that he dislikes people who downplay Day1’s.

#51 Makes points against tgwbs and says he will probably be voting for him. Says the only other one he has found suspicious is Glirdy but that he “would rather hear of him tomorrow”.

Now one main issue here was that tgwbs had suspected Roa and Mac didn’t obviously like it. Also were hew a wolf, he knew not that tgwbs was the cobbler. So a dangerous one on the right tracks and thence he needed to get rid of him. Nice wording also in defence of Glirdy, a known wolf...

#55 Points to the possibility that Xyzzy hasn’t probably noticed the game has started yet. Opposes lynching him at the moment.

Mr. Nice-guy again. But note also: The wolves won’t kill the quiet ones, so persuading the villagers not to do that either is sound wolf-tactics. The more silent-ones there are in the end, the better for the wolves.

#70 For lack of any new ideas he produces a vote-count.

#75 Says he is suspicious “to some degree only” of tgwbs and Glirdy, but as lynching Glirdy on Day1 has “seldomly been a good idea” he votes for tgwbs. Says he has the feeling nothing’s gonna happen in the last half an hour so he might as well cast his vote and avoid the last-minute frenzy.

Nice way of ducking the Glirdy-vote again (even though I agree with him on this). If he was a wolf / lover with Roa, his vote for tgwbs is most understandable. The way he detaches himself from the last action is more interesting though. He washed his hands from all speculation that was going on and just voted and said he’d leave. Now any decent innocent would like to get all the information possible, discuss ideas with others etc. He didn’t. He had made his mind and went with it. Now who does this if not wolves? They have no problems or insecurities about things. They can just vote and leave comfortably as they know things.

#78 Agrees with me that tgwbs is not a gifted because of his playing style. Makes a joking reminder of a certain Rangrod.

Nice way to clean his reputation when tgwbs turns out innocent – or if he would actually turn out a gifted. A possibility a wolf should not miss if he thinks of his situation the next Day!

#92 Admits he tried to cause a bandwaggon on tgwbs but notes it backfired. Says he won’t care whether he’s suspected or not. Disencourages everyone from voting Lommy.

With his admission he probably is honest. Not caring about being suspected. Don’t make me laugh! Of course we all care of it. Everyone. But why to state that? To look innocent?

#99 Asks Brinn why she voted for Roa at that time.

Day2

#111 Analyses the votes and takes a closer look of a few suspects. Ends up suspecting Lommy and Brinniel the most. Somewhat clears The Sixth, Roa, Mith, Legate, Rikae, Nogrod. Of Lommy he says the vote she made was the only possible for her werre she innocent or a wolf. Suspects Brinn of defending Glirdy and Lommy and criticises her vote on Roa – thinks she should have voted tgwbs instead.

Interesting that Lommy earns her top suspicion even as he says that voting Glirdy was her “only real option”. So how come you suspect someone who does the only reasonable thing there is? We know Brinn is innocent so that’s for it.

#137 Wonders why I thought his point about tgwbs’s voting a good one. Releases Brinn because of her explanations. Praises Roa’s analysis on me (*bows* even). Analyses my voting situations from the point of view I’m a wolf. Ends that up by stating he’s puzzled. Suspects Lommy because she said we’re doing fine.

I answered the first point already in the thread. Praising Roa’s analysis is a mark of either a poor judgement (Macalaure has a good judgement) or intentional malvolence. Tries to add on to Roa’s points with continuing the suspicion Roa threw over me. The end-product: surely he’s puzzled as I’m no wolf – and he had no ingenuinity enough to paint my posting black.

#157 Tries “a new approach” and lists whom he thinks are innocent and then goes for those who are left. Innocents will be: Brinn, Legate, Mith, Sixth. Very probably innocents are: Rikae, Roa, tgwbs. Unsures are Gil and Xyzzy. That leaves myself and Lommy to be suspected. Of me he says it looks good form one angle and bad from the other. He suspects Lommy in earnest. Defends his tgwbs bandwaggon-idea from Day1 once more.

Interesting how Brinn got so fast the clean papers – and tgwbs, the known cobbler as well! Roa stays safely on the probably innocents –group. Clearly he has nothing against me (From one angle I’m innocent from another not – please... anyone could say that from anyone. So why to say it? Because you want to keep me along the suspicious ones? And why is that? Because you know I’m innocent and you’re not?). Also ot’s interesting how sure he becomes with his suspicion of Lommy. With no actual points added she has raised from somewhat suspicious to his first candidate...

#163 Makes analysis of the posting of Lommy from Day2. She does not cry a wolf but isn’t too innopcent looking either. Downplays her case against Lommy a little but says she doesn’t have better ones either. Wonders what rivalling bandwagons would appear to match the three votes for Lommy coming.

Funny how he can make an analysis and end up in saying there’s nothing overtly suspicious there but still retain his posturte that she’s the number one suspect! No innocent would do that!

#166 Makes the suggestion we have a cursed villager among us.

#177 Defends his last post to Legate. Says he meant the discussion between Roa and tgwbs while answering to Mith. Says Roa is right in here bewcause it’s possible she’s right.

This all left me a bit puzzled. What was this all about? And why bother to underline that Roa is right if something is possible? And why was he inventing / speculating with this in the first place as he seems to be very eager to suspect others from discussing different roles. So what did he achieve by this? It was all too clear that the no-kill was due to the wolves missing their posting to Menel, so why on earth these two posts?

#180 Speaking of who would have missed the kill is a low-level werewolf.

Reaching for the moral high-ground after a personal blunder?

#187 Votes for Lommy to stop waiting.

Nice. No further reasons given and the previous reasons are somewhat lacking as well. And safely early vote enough not to entangle himself woth the hard decisions of the last minutes. Nice and clean again. Detached I would say once more. Wolvish.

#191 Asks if he could persuade anyone to vote for Lommy with him.

#196 Answering why he voted Lommy. Day1 she voted for Glirdy but disencouraged others to do it. On Day2 a general aura of dishonesty, refers to his analysis on Lommy.

Interesting again. He had already himself said that Lommy had no other choice on Day1. Many of us didn’t like the idea of voting Glirdy on Day1 as it has been done many times and it has always ended up badly. So Lommy was no different here from many others. Of Day2 he himself first said that it didn’t cry a wolf but didn’t look too innocent either. Now he says there is a general aura of dishonesty. So what changed? Lommy didn’t post in between these posts on Mac. So he’s in contradiction with his own analysis here?

#202 makes a vote count-up. Reminds that it looks familiar.

#208 Speculates about the last votes. If Legate votes Lommy it’s for Rikae to decide. Edits with *shakes head*

-----
Some more general points to follow...

[Mithalwen]

And who would want to cast his vote without pondering as much as he could, if he knows only about himself that he is innocent, but of the others everyone can be a wolf swaying votes? But if you are referring to yesterday, then know ye that this was actually what eased my suspicions on you in the first place. At that time I didn't know you are innocent, of course. I was waiting till you post, since from your last page performance yesterday I got a lil bit confused and suspicious. So I wanted to see your vote not being influenced by mine - I didn't want you to be in the position where you just add your vote to an "already built house" of someone. I wanted to see for myself whom you would choose. And, unexpectedly, this made me think of you better.




Yes but there was Day One too...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Yes but there was Day One too...
Day One what? We spent all the evening speculating about whether to lynch or not lynch xyzzy, I didn't even know when the deadline is until it was about quarter an hour before it, and I posted right after your vote back then, so I think you also are not the right person to tell us about early votings. :rolleyes:

[Mithalwen]

However I really think that Gil or Xyzzy is the way to go .... and I have only a few minutes to decide because I am yawning and have half an hour's drive ahead of me... thanks for movingthat deadline :rolleyes:

[Macalaure]

Impressive summanalysis, Nogrod. Considering the time, I will comment on it tomorrow, if we both stay alive. :)

[Mithalwen]

Day One what? We spent all the evening speculating about whether to lynch or not lynch xyzzy, I didn't even know when the deadline is until it was about quarter an hour before it, and I posted right after your vote back then, so I think you also are not the right person to tell us about early votings. :rolleyes:


Didn't you vote Lommy and then say oh what about Xyzzy when it was too late ..I voted latish but I was carrying out stated intentions.... and now we still have the same Xyzzy problem..... and it was really the vote for Lommy which makes me uneasy...... I just don't get her being sus on day 1..

Gil or Xyzzy...... Xyzzy freaks me out and I can't decide if gil is merely relentlessy beating the wrong drum or a wolf trying to set me up..... finding it hardot be objective on this...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Whatever, I am not doing this last-minute today, mainly because it's really late. So here is my vote, finally.

++Gil-Galad

I bear in mind what you said, Nogrod, so you might consider yourself lucky to slip from my grip once more.
I have no time now, and I am quite tired, so I can't add anything to your "lovers" specilation, though it is certainly somewhat worth pondering, at least from my current view. Tomorrow, hopefully.

One last thing. If Gil is lynched and proven innocent and I'll be dead tomorrow morning, then my deductions were all wrong and in that case, go after Mith.

[Nogrod]

I was afraid that Mac's sudden changes of view were because he was the seer. But now I see he changes his course mainly in the middle of the Day.

So?

Normally the lovers get to discuss one another during the Day so that would fit nicely. Roa (? - or someone) told him what to do and he obeyed? Or they discussed about good tactics anyhow...

It's kind of revealing that in his first post on Day2 he thinks I'm somewhat clear and after that he changes totally and starts slowly increasing the pressure with me during the same Day (alongside Roa, I must add). So no seer he is.

To me he looks like a lover and with him we will get the other one too. The one is innocent and the other is a wolf. A fair deal for us, I think.

EDIT: X'd with Mith onwards...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Didn't you vote Lommy and then say oh what about Xyzzy when it was too late ..I voted latish but I was carrying out stated intentions.... and now we still have the same Xyzzy problem..... and it was really the vote for Lommy which makes me uneasy...... I just don't get her being sus on day 1..

I didn't say "oh what about xyzzy", I said "if you told me earlier, I could have voted for xyzzy". Because at one point, Nogrod said that he's not going after xyzzy, so I dropped that possibility and voted for Lommy. She was the other suspect and still is, for me. I only decided not to vote for her today (cf. my above posts). That Nogrod suddenly started speaking about xyzzy was a 180° turn for me, quite unexpectedly.
If there is to be a Xyzzy vote, I might consider joining it as the other possibilities look quite problematic.
He said that at the moment I was posting my vote (we crossed). This is what I was referring to: had he posted that before, I might have reconsidered and all three of us might have voted xyzzy. That's about all about the past.

[Mithalwen]

W

One last thing. If Gil is lynched and proven innocent and I'll be dead tomorrow morning, then my deductions were all wrong and in that case, go after Mith.

Am I bovvered? Am I bovvered though? Face, bovvered? Look, I ain't bovvered!

[Mithalwen]

I didn't say "oh what about xyzzy", I said "if you told me earlier, I could have voted for xyzzy". Because at one point, Nogrod said that he's not going after xyzzy, ......He said that at the moment I was posting my vote (we crossed). This is what I was referring to: had he posted that before, I might have reconsidered and all three of us might have voted xyzzy. That's about all about the past.


I see.....

[Mithalwen]

To me he looks like a lover and with him we will get the other one too. The one is innocent and the other is a wolf. A fair deal for us, I think.

EDIT: X'd with Mith onwards...


I did wonder if Mac might be the seer too because he seemed very confident of my innocent in one post on Day 2 I think. Now I know I am innocent but only the wolves or a seer or a successful ranger can be confident of others innocence.
Now I don't know why Brinniel and gil were quite so suspicious of me but lack of suspicion is also interesting....

[Macalaure]

I see Nogrod's last comment as an attempt to make the ranger (if we have one) protect somebody else but me, in order to kill the seer without being rejected by him/her.

I therefore see no other possibility than to tell the truth.


I am the Seer.


I don't know for certain whether Nogrod is evil or not.

I know Lommy is evil.


If Nogrod is innocent, then shame on the both of us. You for discussing giftedness openly, me for being very, very stupid.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Am I bovvered? Am I bovvered though? Face, bovvered? Look, I ain't bovvered!

Well, if such a situation happens that Gil is lynched and innocent and I am alive tomorrow, I'll see to it personally and explain everything. Oh, for everyone, this point about Mith I had in mind even before our debate here started, so the evidence is not streaming from anything that happened here now, it concerns all the previous day.
The point is, in general, if Gil is not a wolf, then Mith probably is. If Gil is a wolf, however, Mith probably isn't.

[Nogrod]

I see Nogrod's last comment as an attempt to make the ranger (if we have one) protect somebody else but me, in order to kill the seer without being rejected by him/her.
I therefore see no other possibility than to tell the truth.
I am the Seer.
I don't know for certain whether Nogrod is evil or not.
I know Lommy is evil.
If Nogrod is innocent, then shame on the both of us. You for discussing giftedness openly, me for being very, very stupid.Shame on us, if you're innocently saying this. And let's hope then we have a ranger to protect you. But in that case you should have at least one more known innocent to us Mac. Right? Why don't you tell us her/his identity?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

(the previous message crossed with Mac)
Oh... crap.

I knew. Be there Roa not-or-yes-believe-the-revealed-Gifteds, I suspected you are, but I did not want to tell it. So I believe you. Well then, if you are, I am quite happy to know that I was not mistaken about Lommy. This would explain - and confirm - many things.

Hopefully, the Ranger will protect you this night... if so, I think you'll agree to attempt to "See" what Nogrod is.

[Mithalwen]

Mith is not a wolf .... fact ... maybe it would be most use to prove it by dying and remove a distraction...

I would prefer to remove Xyzzy but since that surely now is not an option today, it has to be Gil - he may be a misguided innocent but his reasonningis falwedandI know he is wrong about me but how can I prove it.. if I defend myself I get called over dramatic if I don't I am boring and say nothing - I am either ignored or regarded as underhand. j'en ai marre!

++ Gil Galad

[Mithalwen]

Oh blast I didn't see Mac's post.....

[Nogrod]

I see Nogrod's last comment as an attempt to make the ranger (if we have one) protect somebody else but me, in order to kill the seer without being rejected by him/her.I hadn't quite gotten this far... I tried to make sense whether you were a lover (with Roa, possibly). I've not have time to think whether something I said would make the ranger (if there is one) to protect or not protect someone...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Shame on us, if you're innocently saying this. And let's hope then we have a ranger to protect you. But in that case you should have at least one more known innocent to us Mac. Right? Why don't you tell us her/his identity?

Oho! Only in the case the Ranger couldn't protect him. Which of course nobody except the Ranger knows for sure. On the other hand, it is true that even if Mac tells us about one innocent, the wolves can kill only either Mac or the innocent at night, so one would still be here at least one night. The problem is, that there would be one potential target for the wolves (if we don't have two rangers). Or if the person Mac dreamed about was not the Ranger himself...

What do you say to us, Mac?

[Macalaure]

Since my time is now limited indeed, here are my last thoughts now, and some details.


Night One I dreamt of Mith and she was innocent. I chose her because I simply had some hunch she might be evil in this game. Looking at her strange behaviour and her interaction with Nogrod especially today, I more and more get the feeling of her being the ordo lover of evil Nogrod. She could be a mytho, too (who are just innocents before night 2). I've been told she's innocent, but everything about her says the opposite.

Night Two I dreamt of Lommy, who is a werewolf. I chose her because she had the biggest question mark across her, because her role would be very telling concerning the behaviour of others (tgwbs and Legate, though I was wrong about the former) and, egoistically, because my vote would look hideous if she's evil.

Night Three I dreamt of Roa, who is innocent. Both she and Lommy interacted with tgwbs a lot, yet rarely interacted with each other, this made me suspicious.


Roa's innocence furthered my suspicions of Nogrod, but as you can see, I was already suspicious of him before I knew of it. To me, Nogrod looks very bad indeed.

[Macalaure]

Do we still have enough people here to make Lommy overtake Gil?

[Macalaure]

If I count correctly, Nog, Rikae and I are left to vote.

Either we all three vote Lommy to tie her with Gil, or Rikae and I vote Nogrod to tie him with Gil, in which case Nogrod will vote Gil to save himself.

++Thinlómien

[Nogrod]

Oh my Mac! I'm simply distrusting your deductions and your story sounds just too false!

If it were not the last minutes frenzy I think everyone could see through that.

But let's find out whether Lommy is an innocent or evil. I'm ready for the trial.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Woh... well then, I hope for our sake you are not a fake, Mac... though this is great. If correct, then please take away my last hints on Mith :D Only if she is not a Mithomaniac.

I hope the Ranger/Rangeress will look after you, Mac...

Do we still have enough people here to make Lommy overtake Gil?
Three, I think. You, Rikae and Nogrod. So it would be flip a coin. Proven that Lommy does not appear out of nowhere and vote for herself :rolleyes:

[Roa_Aoife]

Strange timing, Mac, but I must say, don't worry, the ranger will protect you tonight. Tomorrow we'll find out if you're lying.

[Nogrod]

I wonder why it takes so long with Menel. We made a deal that Lommy's vote with some reasoning would come in - and it's to Mith...

What is it Menel? You said you would do it? Why do you wait? It should be known to all as soon as possible! And we discussed this a half an hour ago!

[Macalaure]

I hope we have a ranger, if not, then these are my last words:


Roa is innocent.

Mith is innocent, but my feeling tells me otherwise.

Lommy is evil.


I think Nogrod is the third wolf.

I think Six is innocent.

I can't say anything intelligent about xyzzy, but I think a newbie wolf would behave differently.

If Nogrod is innocent, then Gil might be the third wolf.

I think Rikae to be more on the innocent side, but I could be wrong.

I strongly think Legate is innocent, but you never know for sure.


And finally, a short apology for being so obvious about my knowledge. Even if Nogrod is innocent, his comment might have been good, because if so many have picked up on my role, the wolves probably have, too, and I might have died without sharing what I know.

It's been a really great game! :)

[Rikae]

++Gil Galad

[Nogrod]

Mac. Your story is the most unbelievable one I have seen yet.

Were you a wolf you might wish to sacrifice a fellow in a tight situation so if we manage to lynch Lommy, I don't think it cleans you anyhow.

But this is the gamble we should take...

++ Lommy

I hope Rikae appears from somewhere and gives a a chance to see something...

[Nogrod]

++Gil GaladInteresting choice, Rikae... Let's hope you're right.

[Macalaure]

++Gil Galad
ewww :rolleyes:

[Nogrod]

Do we have two cobblers? Rikae being the other one?

[Meneltarmacil]

The villagers went in search of Gil-Galad, their target for lynching.

"I'm not guilty, whatever you say," the Wild Bandito protested. "At least, not of being a filthy lobo."

"Yeah, right," Nogrod replied sarcastically. "Up you go, Wolf."

The villagers took him up to the gallows and put the noose around his neck.

"Gallows? I don't need no stinking gallows!" was the last thing the Bandito said before his neck snapped.

No transformation occurred. Gil-Galad was an Ordinary Villager.

Alive:
Legate of Amon Lanc
Macalaure
Mithalwen
Nogrod
Rikae
Roa_Aoife
The Sixth Wizard
Thinlómien
xyzzy

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Devoured by Wolves on Night 1
Glirdan (Werewolf): Stoned to death by Villagers on Day 1
the guy who be short (Cobbler): Became the guy who be hung by Villagers on Day 2
Brinniel (Ordinary Villager): Crushed under anvil by Wolves on Night 3.
Gil-Galad (Ordinary Villager): Didn't need no stinkin' lynching, but got one from Villagers on Day 3.

Day 3 is now over.

A note about those surprises I mentioned: Don't expect a lot of huge stuff. I was orignially going to include some major surprises, but had to scale the game back as I would need around 18-25 players to use them.

EDIT: Lommy had Nogrod relay a PM earlier saying:
++Mith

She just doesn't sit right with me. This is partly gut-feeling, but mostly for her attitude. For one, her pursuing the kill-slip thing seems too forced.

[Meneltarmacil]

While the villagers slept, Roa_Aoife remained awake, ostensibly clearing tables in her Inn, but actually sharpening her weapons in case the wolves showed up. Which they did.

It began innocently enough. Thinlómien wandered in and asked for something to help her sleep better, as she was too worried to do so with all these Wolves around. As the Innkeeper reached for some ingredients, the trap was sprung. Thinlómien transformed into a Wolf and leaped at Roa. The Hunter was badly wounded but managed to draw her knife and kill the Wolf with it. As she struggled to get up, however, she realized that there had been more than one Wolf around...

The villagers found both Roa's body and that of Thinlómien the next morning. Two kills had been made this Night.

Alive:
Legate of Amon Lanc
Macalaure
Mithalwen
Nogrod
Rikae
The Sixth Wizard
xyzzy

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Devoured by Wolves on Night 1
Glirdan (Werewolf): Stoned to death by Villagers on Day 1
the guy who be short (Cobbler): Became the guy who be hung by Villagers on Day 2
Brinniel (Ordinary Villager): Crushed under anvil by Wolves on Night 3
Gil-Galad (Ordinary Villager): Didn't need no stinkin' lynching, but got one from Villagers on Day 3
Thinlómien (Werewolf): Slain by Hunter on Night 4
Roa_Aoife (Hunter): Wounded and devoured by Wolves on Night 4

Day 4 has dawned.

[Macalaure]

To let everybody know right away:

I dreamt of Nogrod tonight, and to my very surprise, he came out innocent.

[Nogrod]

Whoa! Well done Roa! Even if it was only basic straightforward reasoning... but anyhow. Solid work! *bows*

I had already prepared myself to try and get you people speaking as much as you can even though we would be having a quite uneventful Day ahead (as we would lynch Lommy anyhow to get rid of a werewolf / to see whether Macalaure is/was the real Seer).

Now this is getting much more interesting indeed. Quite a setting I must say. Hopefully everyone is able to withold from voting until Mac comes back and gives us his dream of last Night. We may still have surprises here and any evil forces might be able to exploit them.

[Nogrod]

To let everybody know right away:

I dreamt of Nogrod tonight, and to my very surprise, he came out innocent.Surprise - surprise! :D

Now you may understand why I thought you and Roa having evil intentions behind the way you tried to make me look bad? :rolleyes:

Okay. One Day to make a difference now then you and I. You'll most probably be dead the Night that follows and I will most probably be the next one to go.

[xyzzy]

Hooray, another wolf down.

Any leads? Will be home early tomorrow, will vote then.

[Nogrod]

Okay. I'm sadly off to sleep now but I will be back with fresh energy later.

Just a few points to think about.

So we have at least one wolf to lynch. As she struggled to get up, however, she realized that there had been more than one Wolf around...I don't know how deliberate this is, but you can all see the vague description "more than one wolf around". So it's not necessarily just one left.

And even if Menel downplayed the scale of surprises in his narration from yesterDay, I still think there is more underneath the surface than just one cobbler. I still think a pair of lovers could be the thing. So if you notice something like it, please let us all know. It may be important.

Then again. There are seven of us left. Three are known innocents - to a degree. If there are roles like lovers the seer dream would probably only show innocent for the part of the innocent lover. So Mith might be a lover still. I know I'm not a part of any lover-scheme, but you have only my word for it to be sure. And I was pretty uneasy with Mac's revelation yesterDay and - as we are in a game of Werewolf - I still can't be 100% certain about him. I tend to trust him now and will not even suggest lynching him toDay, but if he continues living for a Day or two I'll be rethinking it again - if I'm around to rethink anything...

So that leaves only four players. Legate, Rikae, Sixth and Xyzzy. At the first looking this would make Rikae look quite suspicious as she went for Gil against Lommy even though there had been a "seer-revelation" (which also could be partly confirmed only by lynching Lommy).

What say you?

[Rikae]

Well done, Roa! An excellent trap, with those Ranger-hints you dropped yesterday!
Mac, I'm sorry I didn't believe you.

As far as I can see, Legate and Xxzzy both look pretty bad.
I'll trust Mac on Nogrod and Mith. I take it there are meta reasons to trust Sixth? Perhaps we should talk openly today - I, at least, think I missed something.

I certainly hope there's only one wolf left; because if not, and we waste today's lynch, we'll be 3 innocents and 2 wolves tomorrow. I can't imagine Menel saddling such a small village with four wolves, though.

[The Sixth Wizard]

Gaaah! I was wrong! NOO! Actually I was wrong twice, because Gil-Galad was an innocent too. Curse Werewolf! Curse them, we hates them! (for a few minutes the Sixth Wizard rambles and mutters to calm his nerves)

So, 1 more wolf left, no ranger or cobbler. Seer? That leaves five innocents. I think that there would be at least one more role filled. A likely explanation is lovers, in which case we have the advantage, because if we lynch one, we get the other, obviously.

Now I can see why I wasn't eaten, because I was unfortunately a staunch supporter of Lommy. And the ranger's gone, guys, I have to say I'm doomed.

I'll post some more stuff later, don't feel like it now.

[Rikae]

Roa wasn't a ranger, Sixth, she was a hunter. We may still have a ranger.

[Macalaure]

Oh my Mac! I'm simply distrusting your deductions and your story sounds just too false!This isn't a really pressing point, but I thought I should address it anyway.

I didn't want to play the common dreams-of-his-top-suspect seer. Instead, I wanted to dream of people whose roles will throw some light on other people regardless whether they come out good or evil. Lommy's role also gave some light to Legate and tgwbs (I suspect tgwbs really thought Lommy innocent; and I do not forget that I could be wrong about Legate), and Roa's gave some to Nogrod (though it turns out she and I were wrong now).
So my plans didn't really work out, except that I was lucky about Lommy, who might have slipped under the radar otherwise.


Strange timing, Mac, but I must say, don't worry, the ranger will protect you tonight. Tomorrow we'll find out if you're lying.So we do have a ranger, and not two hunters or something. Good. I hope s/he gambled, though.

Concerning the timing, well, I only felt the need to reveal after Nogrod wrote this:I was afraid that Mac's sudden changes of view were because he was the seer. But now I see he changes his course mainly in the middle of the Day.
...
It's kind of revealing that in his first post on Day2 he thinks I'm somewhat clear and after that he changes totally and starts slowly increasing the pressure with me during the same Day (alongside Roa, I must add). So no seer he is.His sudden insistance that I'm not the seer (coming from my top undreamt-of suspect!), had my alarms on. I thought he was trying to direct the ranger the wrong way, so he wouldn't have to worry about him/her when he kills me in the night. I thought that maybe he thought I had dreamt of him and therefore he didn't fear suspicion. Had I tried to give a hint to the ranger myself, it would have had the same effect as to reveal my role, just without letting you know of my knowledge.

Well, anyway. Since it seems like many have thought me to be the seer, the wolves probably have, too. So it's not as desastrous as it seems.

Oh, and of course I didn't alter my suspicions from the first post on the day on. That would have made me look seerish. :rolleyes:



Nogrod and Mith are almost known innocents, now. But we should be careful, because they could be the lover (if lovers exists) of the last wolf, and Mith could have been a Mytho. The two aren't proven innocent.
This leaves Six, xyzzy, Legate and Rikae. Rikae looks suspicious indeed. Everybody should have a look at the posts of Lommy and Roa, though I already did that all the time the last two days. Sadly, I will probably be short on time toDay, but I'll try what I can.

[Nogrod]

Just a short one at this point.

The ranger might be wise to come out in the open now. It would narrow our choices toDay down to three.

I mean we only have two or three Days left this game - depending on the roles there are in the first place (with lovers or two cobblers the game ends within two Days, with only one wolf left it's at highest three Days).

I mean: I'm afraid that we have only two lynches left and we need to get it right with those two trials. So any narrowing down of the suspects would be welcome indeed.

So think of it ms./mr. ranger.

I would like to hear other opinions on this too but at least now it looks to me the sensible move to make.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, reviewing everything. The tide has turned, and quite well. We don't have to lynch Lommy today, which would be a sure option anyway, but we have one "free" wolf down due to Roa and now have to decide. I'm trying to make a little summary here, it is more or less statement, but it helped me to realize what we are in. So the situation:

Now we know 99,999% Mac is not a fake seer, which would be nonsense even now, because the real seer would really have to reveal at this time. Thus, we have Mac, Mith and Nogrod as known innocents now. And me (the remaining innocents please apply this theory on yourselves if you don't trust me. The examples are written from a point of view of an innocent who is not included in the Mac-Mith-Nogrod group of known innocents, because these people have one less villager to choose the werewolf from, because they know about themselves they are innocent, AND they know it about all the three Revealed. The Revealed know it about themselves, but they are already included in the cleared suspects, so they have four, and not three villagers to choose from. Hope this is clear).

Apart from that there are three possible werewolves.

Now, if we had only three Wolves in here (which I think is more probably, given our numbers and given that there was the Cobbler):
Even if we lynch an innocent today, and a wolf kills one of our proven innocents (e.g. Mac, the worst option for us) tonight, we'll have 100% innocent Mith and Nogrod and two people to choose from. If we lynch an innocent even tomorrow, and the wolf kills e.g. Mith, if she is not a lover or something like that, then the next morning we have one innocent ("me", or "you") who knows now 100% who the wolf is (because he is the "other one"), one wolf (the remaining unknown villager) and known innocent Nogrod. It would be up to him now to decide the fate of the village.

This is the worst option though. I don't want to give any false feelings of safety or cast defeatism on the remaining wolf (or wolves, if they were more than three). I am not including variants like "ranger protecting the right person" which would mean ultimate victory. So, we'd have to be VERY unlucky not to lynch the wolf. Though, if he is very sneaky, he could do it.

Nogrod and Mith are almost known innocents, now. But we should be careful, because they could be the lover (if lovers exists) of the last wolf, and Mith could have been a Mytho.
I think quite paradox... xy.. xically... how do you say it? - it would be good for us if there were lovers in the village, since even if we lynch an innocent and he proves to be a Lover, then the wolf dies. On the other hand, the Lovers could very nastily sway the voting to their favor. If we assume that there were just three wolves, now, if there is a Lover among us, the victory of lovers now equals to the victory of the Werewolves.

The other thing is, when we had a Hunter, we probably have a Ranger as well - makes sense? And then he/she's still alive.

Soon I will write about the remaining suspects, when I re-review them.

P.S. Bzzzt... Menel... technical... you have Roa written both among the living and the dead...

EDIT: x-ed with Nogrod

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

The ranger might be wise to come out in the open now.
Well, we cannot still know for sure. I considered it as well, but there might be a fake Ranger coming out of nowhere. On the other hand, even if a fake Ranger comes out, then we'd have two suspects for today: one fake Ranger and one true Ranger. So... hmm... yes, maybe it's a good idea. Even if we'd lynch our own Ranger today, we'd have one 100% kill tomorrow. So yes, I'd go for it.

So YES! That's the best idea I have seen so far. You deserve a medal, Nogrod.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Rikae, did I overlook it or have you still not explained why you didn't vote for Lommy yesterday? If anything, you should explain it. And not speaking about it yourself does not help. It might seem like you want people to forget it.

[Nogrod]

Rikae, did I overlook it or have you still not explained why you didn't vote for Lommy yesterday? If anything, you should explain it.That's what I wondered already yesterDay. Her vote kind of stands out... :rolleyes:

I will be making an analysis on Rikae anyhow after I have had something to eat. I try to be more balanced with it now than as I was with Mac yesterDay (sorry Mac but the way you and Roa went on pressing a case against me from nothing looked very bad and made me try and see any possible suspiciousness in your posting to reveal your malvolent intentions... :( )

So a waffling analysis to come in an hour or something.


You deserve a medal, Nogrod.Thanks Legate. Although I thought that if we didn't spell out the consequences we might have had a chance to lure the wolf to actually pose as a ranger and thence make the village-victory 100% stuff... But no problem. It's pretty probable that the wolf would have seen the danger and avoided it anyhow.

Let's finish this toDay. :cool:

[Rikae]

Rikae, did I overlook it or have you still not explained why you didn't vote for Lommy yesterday? If anything, you should explain it. And not speaking about it yourself does not help. It might seem like you want people to forget it.I believe I said "I'm sorry I didn't trust you, Mac."
It looks like more explanation is required, though. :rolleyes:

I'm sorry I didn't trust that you were bluffing about Roa, Mac. In the last frenzied moments of the day, all I could think of was that I knew Roa was the hunter, and you appeared not to.

Ranger Rikae, at your service.

EDIT: X'd with Nogrod.
I was going to be lynched anyway, and it looks like I probably still will; but (once again :rolleyes: ) I implore you not to waste a lynch. I'm done for anyway.

[Macalaure]

I'm sorry I didn't trust that you were bluffing about Roa, Mac. In the last frenzied moments of the day, all I could think of was that I knew Roa was the hunter, and you appeared not to.Argh! I didn't give away her role intentionally, because I wanted to leave the wolves in the dark about the hunter. I didn't think about what kind of impression this would leave to the ranger. :eek:

Poor Gil...


(sorry Mac but the way you and Roa went on pressing a case against me from nothing looked very bad and made me try and see any possible suspiciousness in your posting to reveal your malvolent intentions... :( )Hehe, it was a very fun read, btw. Of course it sealed your guilt in my mind at the time. :D

[Nogrod]

Ranger Rikae, at your service.
Well, after all this discussion about the ranger-revelation this is a nice thing to hear. So we'll have to wait for Xyzzy and The Sixth to come in and make their stance on the issue (whether they claim to be rangers or not). It looks like Legate is not claiming it.

So unless Xyzzy or The Sixth come to contest your word Rikae I will not be suggesting lynching you - and will probably leave the analysis I was about to get started to a later moment (toMorrow perhaps, if we don't get the wolf toDay). But I need to check a couple of things before... just to be on the safe side.

The next question to be considered surely is: if Mac and Rikae are true (not the lovers playing a very risky game indeed), that will leave as our last wolf someone from the trio Xyzzy, The Sixth and Legate. That means: back to the drawing-board...

Just to make the old point once again. Funny how the gifteds so easily look like wolves! Mac, Roa, Rikae - I've suspected everyone of them in this game, pretty heavily indeed... :o

[Nogrod]

I was going to be lynched anyway, and it looks like I probably still will; but (once again :rolleyes: ) I implore you not to waste a lynch. I'm done for anyway.Although this is curious... Why do you talk like this? If we have reason to believe you're the ranger (no one contests your status), why should we lynch you? And you're not done for anyway - if what you say is true and what Mac say is true - because then the wolf will kill Mac the next Night and you will be here toMorrow as well. Unless we catch the wolf toDay, of course.

*puzzled*

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Ranger Rikae, at your service.
Oh, what the...?

I didn't expect that - actually, hadn't you been the Ranger, I'll probably lynch you, since you haven't included any worthy explanation with your Gil vote and all that stuff.

Okay, but now we, common people (me and the other good guy from the two) have only two options to vote. You others have three. This surely helped. Now I'm going to analyze these two folks, and see. On xyzzy there is probably not much to analyze, but still... on Six, fortunately, also not too many posts to go through, though at least something to analyze.

Well, after all this discussion about the ranger-revelation this is a nice thing to hear. So we'll have to wait for Xyzzy and The Sixth to come in and make their stance on the issue (whether they claim to be rangers or not). It looks like Legate is not claiming it.
Agreed. I am not a Ranger, and unless Rikae is playing a game with us in hoping that the two guys are not going to show to claim their rightful Rangership, this matter is clear.

Don't log off, I'll be back. And let's also wait what these two guys do when they show up.

[Nogrod]

Okay. Maybe I have played too many ww-games but there is something unnerving in Rikae's confession of being the ranger. So what if she plays with a calculation that the ranger is Xyzzy who seems not to read the thread too often or too thoroughly, or The Sixth who actually seems to be a bit more active but who might also leave some parts unread? That would be her best bet. Indeed, were I a wolf in this game, in place of Rikae (eg. suspected heavily as the last wolf) I would probably have tried just that.

And see how she says that's she's going to be lynched anyhow after reading the cross-post where I say I'm going to take a look at her and also Legate had expressed concerns over her. So she reveals her actual mindset ("I'm in trouble!") after she has made the very stressful decision to put all her eggs in the same basket that is quite weak indeed?

I'm going to look at her, anyhow. It's only 14 posts so that should not be too much of a task.

EDIT: Didn't refresh the page after returning to the computer and managed to x-post with Legate. Good idea Legate. You check the two, I check Rikae...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I can assure you I'm not doing such a thing to confuse you, unlike Glirdan, who may well be a bad guy.
In his first post, I already said about it the first day that this seems strange. I considered Six being clean after the first day, so I completely forgot that one.

In his second post, he speaks only about time and that he'd have to vote.

His third post:

Well, a few people at least think that Glirdan is a Werewolf, perhaps this means a cobbler is not involved here? And I tend to agree that he is suspicious. I need to get off the computer now, so...

++Glirdan .

Sorry mate if you are innocent, whereas if you are guilty ...

DEATH TO YOU!

AHEM!!! Now I don't see how the heck could I have seen him ok, because if this is not suspicious, then I am a were-dragon.

Next day, one lengthy post at the start:

I don't think Thinlomien was using some wolf kill wolf strategy. I think that might just be a bit too open on the first day. Just my opinion.
Tra-la-lah. Nothing to add. If they are three wolves, obviously, no one would want to be left alone. Continuing the post...

TGWBS was suspicious against Lommy and Lommy was anti-Glirdan. Plus he was suspicious about me! (the nerve ) He then has a go at Mac, and Roa (innocents I think), and proceeds to vote for Lommy. I am pretty sure he's a werewolf, myself.
Good cover trick if he is a wolf, a nice move. Though... (still continuing the same post)

Legate probably not. But he does say TGWBS is honest, which I am sure he is not.
Only to note this, look at the end of the post to confirm...

Gil-galad voted for Lommy but I don't think he's a werewolf.

Mithalwen seems to be one of the good guys. So's Roa.
Grasping the straws, literally, making friends among the innocents, as above. Or is Mith really a Lover?

Brinniel: I think this might be our wolf. In a vote for Roa maybe she's trying to take some of the heat off Glirdan. That's not very concealed, but it's her second game...
Surely, found a person to cast a suspicion on. Does it have something in common with Brinn's death later then? Have to review if she was against Six/Lommy very much (sorry, Roa, if you were right after all).

Nogrod, good guys. Rather a voice of reason. Gifted?
Trying to sniff out Gifteds or, as before, just making friends among innocents.

As you can see I am a great Thinlomien supporter I'm afraid.
Cf. above - quite dangerous for a wolf, however as we can see, he slipped off the radar from then. This was a quite innocentish defence for himself to explain why he is on Lommy's side.

So my opinions are that TGWBS, Legate(?) and Brin are the most likely in my mind to be werewolves at this stage in the game.
He voted TGWBS later then, we know. Only to mention, because it concerns me, I don't see how he came to thinking me wolf when from above, he didn't say anything significant about me. This is more like a point of interest.

Will continue, though...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

...and it's not getting better at all.

Next posts:
Only to make this complete, the clever person who posted the quote in the middle of the following quote was Gil-Galad:
Oh man, people I thought were innocent are plastering ridiculous accusations over each other, this only makes it harder to tell who's the wolf . . . What's more they're plastering things over me!
Glirdan voted for sixth after he himself received 2 votes, so he could try and save a fellow wolf by voting for them, thus drawing any suspicion off of sixth.
That was a bit of a big assumption, don't you think? After only two votes, both near the start of the day, one by a newbie (me) and one by a suspect (Lommy), do you think Glirdan would really have given himself up to his fate to make me look completely innocent? And do you think that I would have accused him so early on the game?
If Gil was right, then Six's reaction was pretty typical and for a wolf, possibly the best.

In his later post that day, where he votes (for tgwbs), he sums also everyone, and says mostly things like "Suspicious. Need to find more on him, though." Of interest is this:
Nogrod ~ Voted for Glirdan, late in the Day. If I was a wolf, I sure wouldn't press home Glirdan and not gain much in the way of trust, so probably innocent.
This is once again (repeatedly and repeatedly) distancing himself from Glirdan lynching, said quite explicitely. "IF I WAS A WOLF, I WOULDN'T..." Well if he IS a wolf, he did. :rolleyes:
The same he says on Lommy later:
Thinlómien ~ It might be my death, killed by wolves, lynched after she gets lynched herself, but I still hold trust in our good ol' goat farmer. I still don't reckon she would have tried to get rid of Glirdan so soon in the game if she knew he was a wolf. And if she did, it sure hasn't paid off anyways.
*shakes head* This is so eye-striking that I might have monocles if I read any more post of him... Oh yes, only about his vote then:
the guy who be short ~ His vote yesterday is still very suspicious. He also didn't post much since then. Very close to voting him, don't know whether to join the Thinlomien bandwagon. . .
This is as unsuspicious as a man who walks a street where a dead body lies, and he is whistling, if you catch my meaning.

Six was pretty lucky I lost interest in him after I saw he lynched Glirdan. This move he did brilliantly, as well as Lommy. The trouble is, they did it together and Lommy was revealed. I don't even know if I should continue in his analysis (but of course I will), because from this, he is either guilty as guilty Guilter from Guilterria can be, or he is veeery very unlucky to have posted what he posted.

[Nogrod]

I just love your analyses Legate! You're having the kill in them! Welcome to the club! :D

But let's just remember that as it's the late Days of the game already we should also be careful. Lots of what you say makes sense and The Sixth looks very bad indeed - as lots of what I said about Mac made sense and still were not true (possibly... hopefully...). Making a crushing analysis of someone oftentimes makes one himself the most convinced about the rightness of one's cause. I admit I partly fell into that trap yesterDay.

But keep up the good work!

I'm still going through Rikae (on the second Day already!) and I try also to pay heed to what Roa has said of her and kind of combine those two things somehow.

[Macalaure]

Good idea Legate. You check the two, I check Rikae...And who will be looking at Legate? :p

Alright, I will. But it might take a bit.

Right now, I fear it doesn't look very well for him. Usually, an analysis is used to determine whether a person is a wolf or not, especially when one claims to not really have looked at the person for a long time. Legate's analysis of Six, on the other hand, seems mainly directed at proving to everybody that Six is guilty. It's very one-sided and biased, not inquiring, but polemic.
No offense, of course. :)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

The remaining posts are not easing the suspicion on xyzzy in any way. Concern among the population rose, so Six had to react, the tone is generally like this:
Gaaah! I was wrong! NOO! Actually I was wrong twice, because Gil-Galad was an innocent too. Curse Werewolf! Curse them, we hates them! (for a few minutes the Sixth Wizard rambles and mutters to calm his nerves)

Concerning Lommy there was this remark, in his last post, today:
Now I can see why I wasn't eaten, because I was unfortunately a staunch supporter of Lommy. And the ranger's gone, guys, I have to say I'm doomed.
I hope he's right in the last sentence, if he's a wolf. Only for explanation, if anyone doesn't know, he was mistaking ranger for hunter. I don't think this would signify anything, either if he was doing that trying to feign newbieness.

So, 1 more wolf left, no ranger or cobbler. Seer? That leaves five innocents. I think that there would be at least one more role filled. A likely explanation is lovers, in which case we have the advantage, because if we lynch one, we get the other, obviously.
For the first sentence, it might be an unintentional slip that there is only one wolf (him) and not, for example, two. When I'm already in it, I will stop at the "one more role filled" thing. I think there might not be lovers at all, according to what Six said, because he started about it himself. On the other hand, there might be lovers for a very good reason, and that's because the wolves were so eager to vote for each other (though there were surely more important reasons, it might have been like a supporting idea of why to make a sacrifice of a mate. The non-lover wolves probably also wouldn't know if lovers exist, as much as us).

EDIT: X-ed since my last post

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Xyzzy's posts no.107, 230 and 305 are containing almost nothing. In #230 he says that he's going to vote Roa just for the case if "tgwbs knew what he was talking about". This implies xyzzy read through the thread, or read at least something of it, so he is not totally "out", but still this is probably worth nothing. Only that he didn't vote for a wolf. In #305, he says "Hooray, another wolf down."

Well, I am sorry, but I'm basing very much on the "out-game" things, though it's actually in-game, but xyzzy didn't post much, so I take only what I can:

Post #114. This is of interest:
So, TGWBS sounds dangerous. Who's Lommy? Is that the Thin-something-or-another-with-non-English-characters-thrown-in guy? Wow, I'm confused...

I think I'll probably vote for TGWBS, another individual with whom I'm not familiar, but not immediately, in case something new comes up.
Gil-galad voted for Lommy but I don't think he's a werewolf.

Which one - GG or Lommy?

Really sorry to bring this here. But unless xyzzy is really fooling us miraculously and playing dumb, then he'd probably know that Lommy is not a "he" if they were playing together.

This is all we have of him in-game, though as you can see, it is actually an evidence based on "out-game" things (sex of the Downers, all too known topic. Just today I saw one older thread where I referred to Mac as "she").

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

And who will be looking at Legate? :p
Oh, no. I thought I'd come out easy :cool:

Right now, I fear it doesn't look very well for him. Usually, an analysis is used to determine whether a person is a wolf or not, especially when one claims to not really have looked at the person for a long time. Legate's analysis of Six, on the other hand, seems mainly directed at proving to everybody that Six is guilty. It's very one-sided and biased, not inquiring, but polemic.
No offense, of course. :)
Well, just read Six's post for yourself. It was not meant to be condemning, I was actually expecting nothing when starting to read it, I had neutral intention, but what I saw was really as if someone beat me over head with something. And I wrote it "on walk", so I just wrote with the impression still bubbling in me. "This is as obvious as a Chinese crawler tractor on a Liverpool horse-race! How could you have not seen that?" Really, read it for yourself. Just the first post really got me.

[Nogrod]

Well, just read Six's post for yourself. It was not meant to be condemning, I was actually expecting nothing when starting to read it, I had neutral intention, but what I saw was really as if someone beat me over head with something. And I wrote it "on walk", so I just wrote with the impression still bubbling in me.

But let's just remember that as it's the late Days of the game already we should also be careful. Lots of what you say makes sense and The Sixth looks very bad indeed - as lots of what I said about Mac made sense and still were not true (possibly... hopefully...). Making a crushing analysis of someone oftentimes makes one himself the most convinced about the rightness of one's cause. I admit I partly fell into that trap yesterDay.

Just remember this.

I thought of asking you Mac to do something on Legate. Good to see you took it voluntarily... :)

I'm finished with Rikae pretty soon. It has been a hell of a job as I have tried to be balanced and also look at what Roa has said about her (which seems to be proving the best case so far in favour of Rikae).

[Mithalwen]

Hi I am here - see admin life for RL explanation.

I am neither lover or mythomaniac. I hardly think wolf lommy would have made such an effort to get me lynched. She really pulled the wool over my eyes though .. her Glirdan vote seemed reasonable to me :rolleyes: but I seee that Anguirel had an apt pupil.....

Well done Roa but it has made what I had expected to be an easy day more difficult.

I need to read and catch up but I do think the "no kill is significant". I am sorry to bang on but we do need to think about Xyzzy ....

[Nogrod]

The waffling Rikae-analysis (looking at her as a wolf / ranger)


D1
#4 Second post of the game, following the pure nonsense style of Glirdan’s first post.

#7 Starts up the famous row with Roa’s first post discussing the gifteds and their revealments. I'm not sure I like the way Roa advocates mistrust toward revealed gifteds with one breath, and points out that claiming giftedness would be a risky strategy for wolves with the next.

The quoted part at least sounds a bit too odd as an opening move between the hunter and the ranger. I know they should create an air of not be seen as “friends” but still this is an open accusation that could be picked up by others – as it indeed was. Were Rikae a wolf she would know that Roa is not one and thence this kind of spreading “substantial” suspicion on a mighty player would be the thing she should go for.

#33 Decides to reserve her judgement on Glirdy so far with a lot “waffling”. Suspects tgwbs for his suspicions on Roa ("trying to sound helpful without being helpful") and because he suspected Lommy for early voting. Wonders why tgwbs doesn’t wish a hunter to reveal as it would be better for the wolves s/he didn’t.

Now this is a hard one. She manages to defend two known wolves in a same post but what she says about Roa and tgwbs looks like she is in a way defending Roa and she makes a decent point about hunter’s not revealing being better for the wolves (so tgwbs who called for the hunter not to reveal was aiding the wolves’ cause) – although that decency depends on the interpretation of the way the hunter works as there is lots of variation there between the games.

#93 Comes in four minutes before the deadline (saying she had a wrong time in mind) and votes for Glirdan for reasons “mentioned earlier”.

No problem with getting the time wrong... Voting Glirdan and bringing him back to the game (making Glirdy even with Lommy) looks good for Rikae. Although a wolf Rikae would know the value of that kind of track-record too. She could have voted for her seeming top-suspect from earlier tgwbs with some real chances of getting him lynched too.

D2
#117 Since we have no kill today, I'm assuming the wolves' intended victim was protected? Kudos to our ranger - nice work!
Still suspects tgwbs as he voted for Lommy(wolf) with wolf-Glirdy. Finds Brinn even more suspicious because she thought tgwbs “as innocent as” Lommy and had promised not to vote for Glirdy. Thinks The Sixth and myself to be innocent because of our voting.

Now the quoted part really raises some questionmarks. So giving kudos to herself from the job she had not performed? Now this could be excellent rangership – making her look as totally messed up with the role she herself has. Great tactics, I’d say. Then again her suspicions on Brinniel look a bit weird as she accuses tgwbs for voting Lommy and then criticises Brinn for thinking Lommy innocent... Also clearing The Sixth and me just because of our votes looks suspiciously like a “friend-gaining” mission. Overall her relation to Lommy is a bit disconcerting: she defends her all the way but still (like here) likes to stress that we don’t know whether she is innocent.

#125 Tells that she had realised why there wasn’t a kill. Makes a point why a wolf-Nogrod would not have killed his fellow that early in the game (well he might have done, but the point is reasonable).

So not acting the puzzled-one anymore or actually getting to grips with things only now? The problem is that if the latter, then the idea of her “playing” the ignorant (while being the clever ranger) is not more looking less a possibility. Were she a wolf she might have wished to make me feel good not to start suspecting her – but no innocent would wish to jump on someone they honestly thought innocent either...

#190 Informs us (after I requested people to do it) being inclined to vote for tgwbs or Brinniel.

#207 Defends The Sixth against Legate and wants him to be watched more closely in the future. Votes tgwbs. The reason for the vote: who I've suspected from the beginning, as I've said; there seems to be no better lead (though Roa makes a good point about Gil).

She brings Roa forwards. Now would a ranger bring the hunter forwards this way? Might do, as a way of not being able to resist the urge to kind of confirm the pack they have? I don’t know. I would like to throw a line or two to the other one I would be in cahoots with. Surely.

#216 Answers on overtime Legate’s post attacking Lommy. Says she hasn’t seen a plausible case against Lommy yet.

Edgy with it?

D3
#256 Makes an analysis on Glirdy’s interactions on Day1. Makes two points abvout Roa:
While I wouldn't put sacrificing a fellow wolf beyond Roa (she's said she would do it in this game alone), I somehow doubt wolf-Gil [Glirdan?] would leap on the first hint of a suspicion like that if it was for a fellow wolf. He could just as easily have ignored it.andRoa, in spite of her initial suspicion of Glirdan, votes for TGWBS. Slightly suspicious, though she gives several reasons.
Thinks Legate looks the most suspicious, then me.

Looks like she’s learning something from Roa eg. she has started to play the same subdued tactics? But she’s even more subdued with Lommy.

#295 Votes Gil-Galad.

Okay. This has been discussed somewhat already. So she didn’t trust Mac’s revealment. I can’t blame her as I doubted it to begin with also. And if she’s the ranger she had additional reasons to doubt Mac as he (quite wisely) didn’t say Roa is the hunter. So he might have just said she’s innocent (a wolf-Mac would know that) and ranger-Rikae would know there is something missing...


--------------------
Roa on Rikae

#9 Explains her point. Says: Gifteds, if they are in this game, will just have to be more clever than that.

Pretty neutral. But the quoted thing kind of looks interesting. It’s a question we know no answer that whether the hunter and the ranger were able to PM each other or not. That has not been told to us. Knowledge of that might help us interpreting this one.

#118 Lists what people thought about Glirdan the Day before. Puts Rikae in the “unsure / thinks innocent” –section.

#119 Strictly by placement of the votes, Sixth looks most innocent (especially given Glirdan's reaction), followed by Rikae, then Lommy.

#124 Admits Brinn’s correction to her vote-count that it was Rikae who raised Glirdan even to the lead.

Probably just a mistake? Can’t see any significance here but it somewhat spoiled her point on me...

#126 Reminds Rikae that she should not be so sure about my innocence as backstabbing has happened before.

So the “mother-hunter” yet again correcting her apprentice the ranger? But in this case they would not have a right to PM each other.

#148 Attacking tgwbs she says: Also, all this "Rikae must definately be innocent" worries me. Yes, she just happens to have the perfect vote placement, but she herself said that she hadn't read through the thread. Maybe she didn't know that a vote for Glirdan would tie him with Lommy. Or perhaps she made a mistake and miscounted the votes, like I did, and thought to do the safest thing (for herself) and vote to lynch Glirdan. (The point I used for Nogrod applies here as well.) I'm not saying she's definately guilty, but we really should know better than discount someone for a mere Day 1 vote. I've only seen her as a wolf once, but I know she's very good at avoiding suspcion.
It might be the careful distancing between the two. It really could be. At least it seems Roa herself never got back to this even as she noted that Rikae is good in avoiding suspicions... But why would she say that to remind all of us of the fact?

#154 Also, if someone with more time could analyze Rikae- people getting ignored for for a vote is just waaay to convenient.

Saying this in earnest? Wishing people to do that indeed? Or making appearances towards the wolves that the two have nothing shared?

#243 And don't think I've forgotten Rikae. I still don't like how people are quick to discount her becuase of vote placement. If she's a wolf, we'll have played right into her hands.

#245 Makes an analysis on Rikae. It’s on the upper part of page7. I’ll only include the conclusion, but feel free to check it.
On the whole, she looks more innocent than guilty. However, there are a few things that irk me, and her reponse to my first post, which was used by a known wolf to attack me, makes me wonder. I can see her laughing evilly as a wolf because very few people suspect her, but I could also see her as a really good innocent. It's a tough call. I never like to exonerate anyone completely (that's how wolves slip by) but I don't think that justifies lynching her toDay. Tomorrow may be a another story.

This really looks like a friend keeping a distance. She made some points in the analysis but still ends up clearing her – with some “waffling”... (sorry Roa, I will be pointing to your waffling for some time to come after this game...)

A few short remarks to follow...

[Mithalwen]

Really sorry to bring this here. But unless xyzzy is really fooling us miraculously and playing dumb, then he'd probably know that Lommy is not a "he" if they were playing together.

This is all we have of him in-game, though as you can see, it is actually an evidence based on "out-game" things (sex of the Downers, all too known topic. Just today I saw one older thread where I referred to Mac as "she").

YEs but Xyzzy has hardly been here .... I RPGed with Nilp for months uncertain of his gender .... I thought Morm was female until part through a game I modded.. I don't think that is significant....

[Nogrod]

Post-analysis thoughts on Rikae.

So either Rikae is a clever Ranger who fumbled a little one or two times but learned quickly from her mate Roa the hunter - and she had terrible hunches, defending Glirdy and Lommy both to their ends.

Or she is a wolf who first tried to jump on Roa but after that hunkered down and started playing more safely and got forwards with the flow mainly: suspecting tgwbs, Brinn and then me (all non-wolves) at the times these three were generally suspected. She also helped her mates to the end - even risking the attention of not voting Lommy yesterDay.

With this I would be totally at lost with her.

Roa's posting kind of clears her though. The way she handled her looks like she was trying to keep a distance but still cover for her.

With this I would say let's not lynch Rikae - unless there will be someone claiming rangership as well. And even thence I might be compelled to start with the lynching of the contestant.

I have promised to visit my mom and the bus goes in a minute. I will be back at least about an hour or two before the deadline...

[Mithalwen]

I would point out that it is tactically better for a ranger not to be on the money in the game discussions. Their priority is different in that they need to stay alive as long as possible and need to tread a fine line between neither being too threatening to the wolves that they are a night kill priority nor being so suspicious that they get lynched.. of course this is why they can get mistaken for low-flying wolves....

[Macalaure]

The Legate of Amon Lanc


Legate is truly eloquent. You really have to read between the lines with him. My comments are the ones in brackets.

#23
goes after Six and, lesser so, at Lommy - sophisticated debates are useless this early (ewww..) - suspects Rikae, Roa, Glirdan a little - adds his opinion role-reveals

#40
thinks the quarrel between Roa and tgwbs speaks for their innocence (I disagree) - says Roa might have a "teacher syndrome" (attempt of downplaying a powerful innocent?)

#48
pessimistic about catching wolves on Day One (already said I didn't like this) - suspects Nogrod because of his summary, even though Nogrod said it will be followed by conclusions (this could indeed have been a mistake by Legate) - suspects Brinniel because of things which are due to her schedule (this whole post really doesn't look good at all)

#57
hesitant about lynching xyzzy (more than hesitant, he gives points for and against, keeping all the options)

#63
takes back suspicion towards Brinn - continues discussing xyzzy - defends tgwbs from a weak point of mine

#72
reads sense into Gil's post and ups his suspicion of Lommy, because he had pondered something similar before - continues on xyzzy

#79
keeps on talking about lynching xyzzy (without giving away any preference about it, he's really sneaky here in fact)

#87
puts his suspicion of Nogrod aside and votes Lommy (at Glirdan 2, Lommy 2, tgwbs 2; this looks extremely innocent, especially since there were only few votes left. However, Lommy voted Glirdan, too. It's possible that the wolves were planning it this way, though this probably takes it too far. Legate's suspicion against Lommy is awfully thin, though on Day One, that's excusable)

#101
Lommy voters (Gil & tgwbs) don't look like wolves to him (fair point. However, if anybody did look like a wolf to him (why emphasise the Lommy voters otherwise?), why didn't he vote that one?)

----

#138
criticises my way of making Mith look innocent (good point, of course) - gives more points on Lommy (why now and not the Day before when they could've done harm to his seeming prime suspect?) - no longer wants to lynch Six because he's a newbie

#146
list of suspects (I'll just pick the interesting ones: ) - very uncertain about tgwbs - unsuspicious of Rikae - Mith seems innocent but watchworthy - will focus on Nogrod, Lommy and me

#159
keeps up suspicion on Lommy - sees connection between her and Six - drops me off his list - Nogrod is either a great wolf or a great innocent (don't say ;) ) - will keep his vote for Lommy back (why does he emphasise this?) - realises the start of the Lommy-waggon

#167
misunderstood something I've said (though, if he's evil, it might have been an attempt to start a side discussion)

#181
confirms my explanation - dislikes meta-debate (I like it that he does, though, obviously, a wolf would think this way, too)

#193
states he has nothing to add (would a wolf dare to admit that?) - nobody said something to change his mind on Lommy (which is true, it went pretty slow during that time)

#201
won't vote for tgwbs because he doesn't seem like a wolf to him (knowing Lommy was evil, I thought so, too)

#209
votes Lommy when all is decided

#212
says even if he had voted earlier, it wouldn't have changed the vote

(it doesn't take a lot of imagination to think Legate held back his vote because he realised Lommy could indeed have been lynched. Though he clearly stated he will vote Lommy, he doesn't try to make others do so, too. He plays his suspicion suspiciously unaggressive. Then again, why didn't he just vote somebody else? Did he fear that after Lommy's death (somewhen later), people would have recognised this?)

----

#236
says what Roa says makes sense, even if she lied (huh?) - says Roa's points make Lommy look good, but doesn't put a lot of weight on them - thinks Roa suspicious because of her thoughts on Brinniel - "I doubt we can read something significant from this one. After all, wolves are wolves and do NOT want to be found." (there's that pessimism again)

#244
debates that debating Brinniel "without actively posting anything" is useless (indeed, indeed) - defends himself from Roa, again about Brinniel - doesn't like to vote Lommy when she can't show up

#258
Gil started to smell - I do not meddle in "mainstream discussions", because there are many people involved in them and I generally do not want to meddle in their debate unless I have any concern of supporting either of them. I generally rather watch from the outside and wait if someone of them slips or something like that. Because if I focused on that dispute mainly, it would deepen the concentration on this particular problem, which would help to make the village's view quite narrow. And this is not what we need.(can't believe he just said that, I must've overlooked it previously, otherwise it would've made me very suspicious. Compare to his comments on xyzzy!)

#261
says Gil might've tried to give tgwbs a wolf-hint - will flip a coin between Gil and Nogrod (a joke, though once more, he keeps up all his options)

#265
defends himself against Mith, who didn't like his vote-lingering

#269
quarrels with Mith again

#273
votes Gil - if Gil is innocent, look for Mith (I once vocally urged the lynching of Menelwolfmacil only because he said something like that)

#275
continues quarreling with Mith

#280
if Gil is innocent, Mith probably is a wolf (he said it again! *prepares stones*)

#282
suspected me of being seer before, trusts me therefore

#286
discusses with Nogrod and wants to know my dreams

#291
wants me to take away his comments on Mith (uhmm... no ;) )

-----

#312
calls Nog and Mith 100% innocent (nah!) (he waffles a lot in this post)

#313
seconds Nogrod and likes the ranger to reveal

#314
wants to hear explanation from Rikae (has overlooked her short one)

#320
didn't expect Rikae to be the ranger - xyzzy and Six remain his only options

#322, #323. #326
tirade against Six (where is Legate and what have you done with him? No seriously, where's the eloquent and unagressive Legate gone? These posts look like he's trying to frame Six)

#327
clears xyzzy

#328
jokes - claims his intention was neutral when he started analysing - says he wrote "on walk" (he wrote on walk and was neutral in the beginning... why then does he condemn Six from his first sentence on? He contradicts himself on a very important point. Btw, he reacted on my comment exactly the way I thought he would if he was lupine)


Conclusion

Starts and urges many side discussions (xyzzy, Brinniel, Mith)
His behaviour towards Lommy could be interpreted evilly, but many things can. The important thing is, that it does not clear him of suspicion in any way.
His comment about Gil and Mith is straight out of the "Things wolves have to do if they want to be lynched by Mac"-manual.
His case against Six is far too condemning and one-sided to be innocent.

The chances are high that I will end up voting Legate toDay.


edit: If ever again I volunteer to make a long analysis, please, somebody beat some sense into me...

[Nogrod]

edit: If ever again I volunteer to make a long analysis, please, somebody beat some sense into me... :D

Eg. back again.

I must say I have left Legate to fly under my radar almost the whole game, mostly due to those blasted meta-reasons as well. But now we can't lean on them anymore than when we had lot to choose from. So I'm also willing to consider this again. Hopefully no one is in a hurry to vote immediately... hopefully some people turn out in the first place... it would be really good to hear from Xyzzy and The Sixth.

[Mithalwen]

Thanks Mac that is helpful.

I have reread in the light of what we now know and have these conclusions.



Macalaure - Seer beyond doubt.
Mithalwen - Ordo. Not Lover .
Nogrod- Ordo



Rikae - ranger soi disant. No point in lynching today - if she is true let the wolves take her.. we have scope to wait.
The Sixth Wizard - seems innocent. If Rikae is lying I guess he is the ranger since he seemed to state that Roa was one of the Good guys having said I seemed to be.. but I may be reading too much into syntax.

xyzzy Not knowing thte gender I can accept but I thinkif they had liased he would have registered that Thinlomien + Lommy - I am sure in any discussion for example Glirdan would have addressed her as such. However with Lommy away over the weekend Xyzzy on the face of it seems like most likely candidate to miss a kill.

Legate Silver tongued but not ringing true.... stirring stuff up but never committing... and the interraction with Lommy doesn't seem right. She made a very funny dig which he never responded too... sorry if I am wrong but I think he will be my choice.

I really want to go home soon so any thoughts before I commit?

[Macalaure]

I really want to go home soon so any thoughts before I commit?
I think you're on a very good path. :)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

The Sixth Wizard - seems innocent. If Rikae is lying I guess he is the ranger since he seemed to state that Roa was one of the Good guys having said I seemed to be.. but I may be reading too much into syntax.
I recommend you to look at least at one of his posts for yourself. Though I might have gotten carried away by emotions, the content is not normal. He is either a wolf or a mystically unlucky and cursed person who posts like a wolf, talks like a wolf and looks like a wolf.

and the interraction with Lommy doesn't seem right. She made a very funny dig which he never responded too... sorry if I am wrong but I think he will be my choice.
Which? I don't know now what are you referring to.

[Mithalwen]

Hog on gas..... summat like that.. I may have missed a riposte but ... it was rather startling...

[Macalaure]

This is the one, I think.

Legate of Amon Lanc - He prances around like a hog on laughing gas. I hardly believe anything else than an ordo would be doing this. This is in contradiction with his late yesterday actions, which I find somewhat suspicious. I think he was not taking any stance and jumping around from one suspicion to another like a mad frog. (Sorry, Legate. :D) Difficult to define...

edit: crossed

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

To Mac:

I generally do not want to meddle in their debate unless I have any concern of supporting either of them.

This is true, but it has nothing in common with the xyzzy-lynching thing. What was important for me at that moment was to find out whether the village can agree on lynching xyzzy, so that we use a non-harmful lynch for us (as it seemed at that point that he might not show at all), though as I brought forth when Menel told us that he's not going to be auto-killed if he shows up, he would be good even if "in hibernation", but counting into the number of living innocents (if he was one, Nogrod's 3/10 rule or how was it). Or whether I should try to sort my thoughts on someone else, because (as every time the first day) nobody was so sure about any of the possible lynchees.

[Nogrod]

I got a bit forced feeling from Legate's analysis on The Sixth but it is possible he got a bit carried away too. I do think Mac has a few considerable points on Legate as well but to make myself confident in either accepting them as a reason for lynching him or doubting them to be as inspired I need some time. Sorry, but I just came back and need to think a bit. *darn cigarettes that help you think*

[Mithalwen]

There is something so outrageous about that ...

[Nogrod]

There is something so outrageous about that ...In what? Please Mith, if you could, tell us more often where or to what do you refer to... :)

[Mithalwen]

Sorry ... this really seems the most plausible.. I would love to be certain that we could win today but unless we have a cursed the odds are in our favour .. can't believe we would have more than one wolf .. though if we do this is almost sure fire....

++ Legate of Amon Lanc

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

This is the one, I think.
Oh yes, I know. I didn't like it when I saw it, but I didn't think it has any real value, and starting about it would be starting a fighting debate, which is what we don't need ever.

[Mithalwen]

In what? Please Mith, if you could, tell us more often where or to what do you refer to... :)

Sorry I am rather stream of consciuousness ... but Mac is right..... it just seemed so outrageously rude to be a wolf insulting an innocent... I missed it at the time though...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Sorry I am rather stream of consciuousness ... but Mac is right..... it just seemed so outrageously rude to be a wolf insulting an innocent... I missed it at the time though...
And you are jumping on it like that? You always voted later. Anyway I think it is not good that we debate about me, since there are wolves elsewhere. I really suggest to look at Six's posts and make conclusions for yourselves. Aren't you a lover after all, Mith? Otherwise I can't explain why you jump on it like this.

[Nogrod]

Okay two things.

My impression from what kind of made me feel uneasy with Legate's analysis on The Sixth was the way he at one time made The Sixth look like a clumsy beginner wolf and on others he suspected him of being highly clever and cunning one. Now he can't be both at the same time - unless there is a trend where he had gotten advice during the Nights and gets better and better by Day. This should be checked. I try to do it if I have time.

I agree with Mith that it is perfectly plausible that a ranger needs to hunker down and stay out from the heat. And Rikae has had pretty low profile this far. But now after she revealed her role she has been at least as quiet as before. There is RL of course or deliberate decisions to play less involvedly, but I would think she would try to do something for our cause if she in fact is the ranger. So I'm just wondering where she is...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

And Rikae has had pretty low profile this far. But now after she revealed her role she has been at least as quiet as before. There is RL of course or deliberate decisions to play less involvedly, but I would think she would try to do something for our cause if she in fact is the ranger. So I'm just wondering where she is...
Well, I also guess it's RL, but I don't think she'd necessary need to be around to help - what exactly would she be supposed to do? As a Ranger, she has no more information than we do, the only person she knew was Roa and she is dead. The only bonus of Ranger is at night, not at day.

[Nogrod]

Well, I also guess it's RL, but I don't think she'd necessary need to be around to help - what exactly would she be supposed to do?Two eyes see less than four, three brains pick up less than four... Taking account that both Xyzzy and The Sixth are having a very low profile here I would welcome anyone's considered point of view - either to gain insight or to start suspecting the one voicing it. Not the least one's that we should believe is an innocent...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Two eyes see less than four, three brains pick up less than four... Taking account that both Xyzzy and The Sixth are having a very low profile here I would welcome anyone's considered point of view - either to gain insight or to start suspecting the one voicing it. Not the least one's that we should believe is an innocent...
Oh, yes, on that I agree - I thought you were speaking of it because "she has to do it, she's the Ranger!" or something like that ;)

Well it's not as live here as it seemed - ah, so apart from xyzzy&Six she's the only one who hasn't appeared here for some time?

[Nogrod]

Well it's not as live here as it seemed - ah, so apart from xyzzy&Six she's the only one who hasn't appeared here for some time?And it will get much worse if we're going to lynch the louder ones. Those villages with less than ten posts a Day overall are just pathetic... and give the wolves pretty free reign.

But there are other things too. In the worst scenario we have only one chance of missing the wolf. A second miss toMorrow can be the doom of the village if we have lovers / two cobblers. So we can't just shoot in the dark with Xyzzy I'm afraid.

Were he the wolf it would be the least earned victory in ww-history I guess?

What I have been a bit worried about Legate is that he has been really involved toDay. Waffling again I think I am, but that could speak of two things:
a) he's the wolf so near the victory that he does his best and tries all the possibilities to win the Day.
b) he's an innocent who sees the direness of our situation and does what he can to help us.

Hard to say. There are so many possible plots around that spotting the actual one is darn hard.

[Rikae]

Nogrod, because in your post just before mine, you seemed to expect the wolf to claim to be the ranger; plus, the wolf probably would rather kill me than attack Mac only to have me protect him.Out of Xxzzy, Legate, and Sixth, I'm most suspicious of Legate & his latest posts haven't helped his cause, as far as I'm concerned. What do you think, though?

EDIT: Crossed with a whole boatload of posts that for some reason didn't show up the first time I refreshed the page.

[xyzzy]

I'd like to point out that while I'm low-profile, it's because my playing style, and most of the people I paly with, are very low-profile.

Example... (http://randomness.talonz.com/smf/index.php?topic=1038.0)

By the way, I'm male... sorry for not making that obvious.

I suppose I must vote, though it'll probably be for the wrong person. Legate and Sixth seem evil for, ironically, totally opposite reasons. I guess in defense of other low-profile players, I shall vote:

++Legate

[Macalaure]

Nogrod and Mith are innocent as far as my dreams go.

Rikae said she's the ranger, and I believe her claim.

xyzzy is likely to have missed a kill, but good reasons for his innocence have been given. Tomorrow he'll be one to consider, of course, but not today.

Six is acting weird, but that seems to be his style. Meta speaks against his wolvishness.

Legate looks a good deal wolvish and wasn't able to shake off my suspicion.


That's how I see it at the moment and unless a sudden event changes things, I doubt I will vote somebody else than Legate.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

a) he's the wolf so near the victory that he does his best and tries all the possibilities to win the Day.
b) he's an innocent who sees the direness of our situation and does what he can to help us.
Well, if you want me to confess, I am neither of them. First, I don't believe in four wolves - and even if they are, then the rest are Six&Xyzzy, which is not such a problem, being they quite quiet ones. Even if you lynch me today, and they'd kill one of you at night, you'll be still three to two the next day, you'll lynch one, and then the other will kill one of you, that would be two on one, and you have him.
Oh, but to what I wanted to say - I am actually c) I am an innocent who, from this morning on, sees the lucky situation we are in, unless we lynch me, and do what I can to make our victory complete. Which, after I read Six's posts, probably means for me even revealing the remaining wolf, since I really think Six it is and no one else. After that, I want to have "slate clean" with my WW-survivals ;)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I saw this - so it's two votes for me? Please, people, no! You want to pro-longate this for one another day? Who's left to vote - me, Mac, Nogrod, Rikae, Six? Well it's obvious Six would be voting for me, so Mac, Nog, Rikae - I beg you to vote for Six, otherwise I'm gone! Or at best, Menel is flipping a coin.

(All this post is lead in almost hysterically-laughable tone. If you have lovers and two wolves, the grimmest variant, you might yet even lose if you vote me out.

[Nogrod]

Six is acting weird, but that seems to be his style. Meta speaks against his wolvishness.

Legate looks a good deal wolvish and wasn't able to shake off my suspicion.Okay. Let's bang the last barrier down then. Legate was posting at the Downs about an half an hour before the Day started when the wolves missed their kill. So "meta" might also speak on his favour.

But as I said, we should drop the meta-stuff now as there are possibilities that these postings in the Downs do not necessarily clean anyone in the end. All the posting around the deadline were done by people who had only played once or twice before or none at all (I posted to the "Fellowship of the Fourth Age discussion thread" then also as I awaited to Menel's decision - and filled his PM-box - but deleted my post as I saw what was happening not to be seen by anyone that I actually was there so that it couldn't be used by the wolves or the innocents). They might have lost the deadline too withou a senior wolf to make sure of things (sorry Legate, I don't quite believe this from you but it's possible anyhow). The meta-reasons suited as narrow-downs to us earlier in the game, but I think we should now look at everyone from the same level.

The Sixth surely looks like he's quite lost many times but he also posts things that at least look pretty complicated. Xyzzy clearly hasd played a totally different game outside the Downs.

I must say I'm pretty insecure now. Hopefully I get some good ideas in less than an hour from now.

EDIT: X'd with Legate X2

[Macalaure]

Well, if Six and Legate are improbable due to Meta (we have to do something to prevent this excess in future games...) and we all believe Rikae, then we probably should vote xyzzy?

[Nogrod]

Oh, but to what I wanted to say - I am actually c) I am an innocent who, from this morning on, sees the lucky situation we are in, unless we lynch me, and do what I can to make our victory complete. Which, after I read Six's posts, probably means for me even revealing the remaining wolf, since I really think Six it is and no one else. After that, I want to have "slate clean" with my WW-survivals ;)All this post is lead in almost hysterically-laughable tone. If you have lovers and two wolves, the grimmest variant, you might yet even lose if you vote me out.X-posting is such a bliss! I mean you didn't do much good to your case with these two posts (I've only quoted parts as you can all see). I was already starting to think whether I should try to see once again with fervour whether The Sixth is the remaining wolf, but this looks pretty weird for a birthday dreamer...

As an intelligent person you would have stated your information cleanly and nicely - basically you could have done that in the very beginning of the Day as we only have two (or three at most) Days left and there already is one Seer and a ranger + two innocents around (even if one of then is a lover). So much for the wolves to choose from anyhow. And Mac surely is the number one in their list (unless he's the wolf).

So this raised my suspicion of you to a red-alert state.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I think Six actually was probable due to meta, wasn't he? He wasn't around much sometimes. Though we said we are not getting meta to it... I don't see it fair, for any matter, though I must confess I sometimes took it also into account (Lommy, for example) - but only after other evidence...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

As an intelligent person you would have stated your information cleanly and nicely - basically you could have done that in the very beginning of the Day as we only have two (or three at most) Days left and there already is one Seer and a ranger + two innocents around (even if one of then is a lover). So much for the wolves to choose from anyhow. And Mac surely is the number one in their list (unless he's the wolf).
You mean the info about us winning? I said it in my first post today. Or what?

[Rikae]

In answer to Nogrod:

1. I did not support Glirdy, I practically sealed his fate, actually.
2. Roa and I planned the initial disagreement as a trap for the wolves - successfully.
3. Yes, I congratulated myself, in an attempt to throw the wolves off my trail.
4. I asked Roa to suspect me, because I was afraid I would be killed by wolves for looking too innocent.
5. Yes, I have RL reasons for not being around much- Tuesdays and Thursdays are very bad for me.

Anyway, I was all set to vote for Legate, but the no-kill thing throws me. I can't imagine why Legate would have missed the kill. There's nothing to analyze as far as Xxzzy's concerned, and Sixth has me completely baffled.

[Nogrod]

Oh my.

I read your post that you were saying you are a birthday dreamer and thence turned into a Seer. While my suggestions were that you were a) wolf b) an innocent, you say you arec) I am an innocent who, from this morning on, sees the lucky situation we are in, unless we lynch me, and do what I can to make our victory complete. Which, after I read Six's posts, probably means for me even revealing the remaining wolf, since I really think Six it is and no one else.How else one should read that? And if you actually claimed to be a birthday dreamer, then I must say I don't believe you. You would have told that to us earlier, not only after you were in deep trouble...

[Nogrod]

In answer to NogrodI'm pretty happy with this so donät waste your energy on defending yourself, please. One more mind to solve this knot would be useful. :)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh my.

I read your post that you were saying you are a birthday dreamer and thence turned into a Seer. While my suggestions were that you were a) wolf b) an innocent, you say you areHow else one should read that? And if you actually claimed to be a birthday dreamer, then I must say I don't believe you. You would have told that to us earlier, not only after you were in deep trouble...
Oh my!

No, there is no hidden meaning behind the words. Besides, I don't even precisely know what a birthday dreamer is. I am merely saying that this morning (=when I came to computer and read what happened), I counted (see my first post today, or I think it was first at least) that whatever we do, we have very slim chance of losing. After the revealing of Ranger, practically none.

[Nogrod]

Also. The fact that one was posting around the deadline is no proof of the one having missed the kill, althoug it speaks better of Legate as he was there before the deadline. The Sixth only posted 17 minutes after the deadline. But as I said, let's try to make this in-gamewise.

[Rikae]

Well, if Six and Legate are improbable due to Meta (we have to do something to prevent this excess in future games...) and we all believe Rikae, then we probably should vote xyzzy?I don't know. Maybe. Those meta-reasons aren't entirely convincing, though, and I have suspected Legate from the start. On the other hand, I hate the idea of Xyzzy flying under the radar, too.
Still, unless I'm mistaken, we've already won. Even if we're wrong, you have a chance to dream about one of the remaining two tonight, giving us 100% certainty tomorrow.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, finally and simply.

The village wins, if not today then tomorrow, at least probably, if we don't make more mess than possible and there are fifty wolves and twenty lovers around. But anyway, I would really like to see us win even today, which I think is reached by lynching Six. Because I think Six it is. The choice is simple, I of course want to take part at the "victory feast" like a living, not like a dead, and it's not about anything more. Unless, as I said, someone makes more mess than merely lynching me. So please, with your clear conscience, vote Six, do me the favor.

++The Sixth Wizard

[Macalaure]

Even if we're wrong, you have a chance to dream about one of the remaining two tonight, giving us 100% certainty tomorrow.
You mean you didn't protect me last night?

Excellent! :)

[Nogrod]

Even if we're wrong, you have a chance to dream about one of the remaining two tonight, giving us 100% certainty tomorrow.This is such a mad game! :rolleyes:

You comfort and frighten me with your thoughts at the same time Rikae... But we should not discuss this any further in case Xyzzy or The Sixth indeed is our last wolf. :smokin:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

You mean you didn't protect me last night?

Excellent! :)

So you now know that you are winning anyway - you can dream of me, Mac, if you are not sure. C'mon, let's vote Six and end it!

[Nogrod]

You mean you didn't protect me last night?Please, Mac...

[Rikae]

No "victory feast" for you, Legate. :Merisu:

++Legate

Whose leg did you eat, anyway? :D

And with that, farewell village! See you in the post-game celebration!

Write me a good death, Menel!

[Nogrod]

Mith -> Legate
Xyzzy -> Legate
Legate -> The Sixth (Legate2, The Sixth1)

So what say you?

Edit: X'd with Rikae, and most confused...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hey! You still might save me, if Six doesn't vote!

C'mon, Mac, Nog! Don't be silly! Or I am really gonna eat yer legs! (remember I am an Uruk after all!)

[Macalaure]

++Legate

Let's hope for the best.

[Nogrod]

What do you think Mac?

Should we speak openly or stay quiet with certain things?

EDIT: X'd with Mac

[Macalaure]

What do you think Mac?

Should we speak openly or stay quiet with certain things?

EDIT: X'd with Mac

I'm pretty confused right now, so, no objection.

[Rikae]

Edit: X'd with Rikae, and most confused...
Come to think of it, I suppose this doesn't make sense. If Legate's not the last wolf, the guy who is probably won't kill me after all, since I'm not proven innocent. He'll probably kill Nogrod. Mac'll pick the last ordo to dream of, and you'll lynch me tomorrow as a supposed fake ranger.
So we can still lose.
Mac, choose wisely!

[Rikae]

If Leggy's not a wolf, of course, which I'm betting he is.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Vote for me, you say? Curse you, Rikae, you little maggot, and even you, ever-clever-Mac-seer! If you think I'm so old that it's safe to flout me, you're mistaken. Come here, and I'll squeeze your eyes out, like I did to old Radbug.
Ah, the wise ones! Gifteds, eh? All the days here, they don't tell us all they know, do they? Not by half. But they can make mistakes, even the Top Ones can.
Something nearly slipped! Nearly, says you? I'll tell you what: if by some miracle there are four of them Howlers and two dirty lover-rebels, you're screwed, hear you?
That'd be the last from me. The Black Pits take every filthy rebel who voted for me! Now you must lynch the right one tomorrow, or I swear I'll rise from the grave and eat you. The village must get through to victory, or we'll all be for the Black Pits.

[Nogrod]

Rikae. Nice that you noticed we have all the dangers ahead... :p

But not counting the two of you (Rikae & Mac) and me the most involved person is now getting lynched. Were you the lovers you would love this... Just to mention it.

Okay. It's done already so let's nail the thing. I'll be in the gang too.

++ Legate

There are good reasons from toDay to see Legate as the most suspicious one. I could believe this.

Thumbs up... nothing else to do anyhow.

X'd with Legate

[Meneltarmacil]

As another day came to an end, the villagers gathered to do their grim duty.

"Foul breath, yellowish fangs, yes, this one's got to be a werewolf," Nogrod observed.

"You filthy little rat! I could have your head for this!" bellowed Legate of Amon Lanc. The uruk chieftan growled viciously and raised a nasty-looking knife. "I haven't had any man-flesh for quite a while and you're looking pretty tasty. Go ahead. Lynch me. See what I do."

The villagers tried to lead him to the gallows, but Legate resisted, flinging them off and shouting horrible curses at them. Eventually, the villagers managed to come at him with pitchforks and proved to much for the orc to handle. They stabbed him repeatedly until he was quite dead.

No transformation occurred, however. Legate of Amon Lanc was not a werewolf.

Alive:
Macalaure
Mithalwen
Nogrod
Rikae
The Sixth Wizard
xyzzy

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Devoured by Wolves on Night 1
Glirdan (Werewolf): Stoned to death by Villagers on Day 1
the guy who be short (Cobbler): Became the guy who be hung by Villagers on Day 2
Brinniel (Ordinary Villager): Crushed under anvil by Wolves on Night 3
Gil-Galad (Ordinary Villager): Didn't need no stinkin' lynching, but got one from Villagers on Day 3
Thinlómien (Werewolf): Slain by Hunter on Night 4
Roa_Aoife (Hunter): Wounded and devoured by Wolves on Night 4
Legate of Amon Lanc (Ordinary Villager): Pitchforked by villagers on Day 4

[Rikae]

I'll just put my road cones back in the van...

[Meneltarmacil]

*AHEM*

Please keep that to the admin thread.

[Meneltarmacil]

As the next day began, the villagers gathered expecting the worst.

However, as they looked around, they noticed something strange.

Everyone was still there. Nobody had died.

The villagers collectively breathed a sigh of relief, then set themselves to the task at hand.

Alive:
Macalaure
Mithalwen
Nogrod
Rikae
The Sixth Wizard
xyzzy

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Devoured by Wolves on Night 1
Glirdan (Werewolf): Stoned to death by Villagers on Day 1
the guy who be short (Cobbler): Became the guy who be hung by Villagers on Day 2
Brinniel (Ordinary Villager): Crushed under anvil by Wolves on Night 3
Gil-Galad (Ordinary Villager): Didn't need no stinkin' lynching, but got one from Villagers on Day 3
Thinlómien (Werewolf): Slain by Hunter on Night 4
Roa_Aoife (Hunter): Wounded and devoured by Wolves on Night 4
Legate of Amon Lanc (Ordinary Villager): Pitchforked by villagers on Day 4

It is now Day 5.

[Macalaure]

Let the lupine blood of xyzzy wash our hands clean from the innocent blood of Legate and Gil-Galad!

++xyzzy

[Rikae]

Hooray for Mac!

++Xyzzy

And I think I'd like to rub it in a little, my absent lupine friend.
If you didn't figure it out yet, I actually did protect Mac two nights ago.
Yep...you gambled WRONG!!!

Go gifteds, go gifteds, go gifteds GO!!!

*dances crazily*

This is...precioussss!

(forgive my gloating...)

[xyzzy]

Hmm, this is troubling. A plain innocent can't exactly do anything to prove his non-guilt...

I'd like to point out with the Meta issue, I only post on this thread, so looking at my posts to see when I was on won't really provide anything.

Since I'm pretty much stuck in a corner, I have to come up with some sort of defense, and it's a very strange one:

Any Wolf can claim to be the Seer, and he can hold out until the end if he sacrifices one of his teammates for the vote. Macalaure has not been an attempted kill by the Wolves except perhaps until last night, even though he's an obvious target if he's the Seer. The Wolves would have tried him the very night it was found he was the Seer if they wanted him dead, but they didn't!

++Macalaure

[Rikae]

Nogrod was the attempted kill last night, he's the one I protected.

[xyzzy]

...Which only goes to prove what I said more. That would mean the Wolves NEVER targeted Mac!

[Rikae]

Of course you didn't. You 'knew' I would be protecting him.

[Nogrod]

I would love to believe that we have won and the game is over.

But somehow I can't claim the victory yet. Something is too smooth and part of the puzzle look unclear. I really do hope I can trust you Mac and Rikae. I really do. But having seen quite elaborate schemes being played out, forgive me to reserve my judgement for a moment still and think about it.

If you're honest then three cheers for you, but only if you are...

I try to make sense of this to myself, sorry about that.

EDIT: X'd with a few last posts

[Nogrod]

Even more food for thought, I can see... Now I just need to sit down and think a moment. I'll be back soon...

[Rikae]

Xyzzy, if Mac's not the seer, who is? You? Sixth?

Why didn't the real seer step forward and challange him?
Why would a wolf sacrifice his only pack-mate without need, reletively early in the game?
Why would he risk being revealed by the real seer?
So many questions....

[Nogrod]

Xyzzy, if Mac's not the seer, who is? You? Sixth? The thing I'm a bit concerned is not that Mac is the Seer, even though if The Sixth is the Seer, the situation changes drastically. As I think we should take the RL explanations for their face-value (other than that would be bad sportmanship from everyone included) we still have not heard from The Sixth as to what he thinks about Mac's revelation.

And the same goes to Rikae's rangerdom. We normal villagers do not know the roles that exist in this game. So do we have a seer or a ranger in the first place?

But the thing I'm most concerned about is the possibility of Mac (probably the Seer) and Rikae (possibilty of her being the Wolf exists) being a pair of lovers. That would make perfect sense as I look down their actions. Not to mention them both being nicely around to hammer the vote of toDay down as the first posts of toDay. It's so smooth and clear...

Menel had to bring down his aspirations to make some real surprises as there were not enough players to join the game, but could he have replaced the grander surprises with a possibility that the Seer is a lover as well?

After all these questions I will start waffling again and say that I think the highest probabilty is for Mac and Rikae to be true, but I will look at a few facets of the claims they've made before I will vote for anyone. And I also think you others who have not voted will abstain from voting before we have discussed a bit.


---------


The most importantly, The Sixth, come forwards! Do you have a special role or not? Your answer is of the utmost importance now!

[xyzzy]

Xyzzy, if Mac's not the seer, who is? You? Sixth?

Why didn't the real seer step forward and challange him?
Why would a wolf sacrifice his only pack-mate without need, reletively early in the game?
Why would he risk being revealed by the real seer?
So many questions....I don't know; I'm a plain innocent.
Perhaps there is no seer?
There could be 4 wolves, if the innocents have more powerful folks. Or, if there's 3, being credited with a wolf's death is an excellent alibi.
Hmm, good question. Best guess is, there isn't a seer.

I've heard of games where the Wolves are aware that there is no seer, perhaps this is one of them?

[Rikae]

"Not to mention them both being nicely around to hammer the vote of toDay down as the first posts of toDay. It's so smooth and clear..."

Why wouldn't I be around? The day starts at 6 pm my time, and obviously I would want to check and see if my little scheme paid off. As it did, and I certainly hope that you don't spoil it now! *pouts*
After all, I saved your life, buddy! You owe me one.
(j/k)
It would actually be kind of cool if you lynched me now and threw away the victory. Trust me, I would never let you forget it! :p

[Nogrod]

The thing that got me alarmed in the first place toDay was that both Mac and Rikae ran on Xyzzy at the begining of the Day by voting him indeed. Who could be an easier lynch than him? So being lovers you would have chosen the perfect sacrifice as we all would be relieved by the "knowledge" that the non-pariticipant Xyzzy indeed is the villain. How good and comfortable we would feel indeed! And the most myself, as I would have been saved by Rikae - meaning that Xyzzy-wolf would have been following the game enough to pick me as the subject of the kill.

I don't want to under-estimate anyone's capabilities or engagement as such, but choosing me last Night from all the players would require someone who really follows what happens... and this doesn't fit with the general profile I get from Xyzzy (you saw the games he showed as an example of the games he normally plays - quite far from this).

Although his willing to actually take part and to defend himself so eagerly as soon as he was openly suspected (well, claimed the wolf indeed) would speak really bad of him as well.


I admit, that if Mac and Rikae are true it's just logical. If Mac is the Seer he should have chosen from between Xyzzy and The Sixth and I can also see why he chose Xyzzy for his dream. But the problem is, they both are capable ewnough to be logical baddies as well. So the logic will probably not help us much here.

What troubles me more is Rikae. Yes, she may indeed be the ranger and thence I must thank her for the possibility of being here toDay in the first place. *bows* If it really is that way I duly appreciate it.

But somehow I still can't get the itch away from me that this is too simple and clean - that there is a scheme behind all this... She has made so many suspicious moves as well... and leaving me alive the "Last Day" would be just beautiful. Valier once made this trick in the end of the game... and I can't forget it.

Okay. Most of these suspicions are mainly hunches. Maybe I've seen too many marvellous tricks by the baddies to still cling into the possibility... but having possibly only innocent mates like Xyzzy and The Sixth to cling into it kind of ladens the burden on one's shoulder... And that would be just so darn unfair!

I hope I can say something more definitive later on as I wake up again (RL).

And to be earnest in the end of my day (RL) I must say that Xyzzy's defence was not the most convincing one I've seen...

EDIT: X'd with Rikae - don't know whether to read your last post as confirming my doubts or releasing you of them... Maybe you're too forward-going with your innocence (your rangership)? In the end, Mac has not covered your status...

[Nogrod]

My last word s before I go to sleep.

It all comes down to the Sixth.



-----
Please come around The Sixth!
-----


If he contests any of the claims being thrown around we should be really suspicious of the revealments so far and lynch either Rikae, Mac or The Sixth himself - considering on who do we believe. But if he tells us he's a normal villager I'm more than ready to go with Mac and Rikae - and congratulate them of a good game where they granted our victory so nicely.

All this waffling and wavering is due to us not knowing the roles in the end. Had we the definitive information about the roles this would be so much easier. But maybe this is the reason why this game seems so interesting indeed? So many open possibilities that you can't be sure even at this late stage of the game?



-----
Please come around The Sixth!
-----



PS. Rikae: It's not the question of timetables as such, it's a question of the willingness or daring to take part in the discussion. You have laid very low in this game and I can see the reason behind it as if you're the ranger you need to lay low from the gaze of the wolves. But I can see your changed activity as a wolf lying under the radar too and then coming forwards when there is difference to be made in a village where at least two of the remaining innocents just aren't actually playing the game in the first place.

Sorry to be this suspicious, but you know this is werewolf... :rolleyes:

[Rikae]

I voted for Xyzzy because I trusted Mac's seerishness, plain and simple.
Look, if Mac was the wolf, why wouldn't he have killed someone last night? It would be five to one. Would he miss the chance to kill, say, Mith? HE would have known Nogrod would be protected.
If I was the wolf, why wouldn't I have killed someone - probably Nogrod?
The real wolf tried to kill the very same person I said he should. A trick? It would be a wasted night, then, by a drastically outnumbered wolf.

EDIT: X'd with Nogrod

[Rikae]

PS. Rikae: It's not the question of timetables as such, it's a question of the willingness or daring to take part in the discussion. You have laid very low in this game and I can see the reason behind it as if you're the ranger you need to lay low from the gaze of the wolves. But I can see your changed activity as a wolf lying under the radar too and then coming forwards when there is difference to be made in a village where at least two of the remaining innocents just aren't actually playing the game in the first place.

Sorry to be this suspicious, but you know this is werewolf... :rolleyes:
The real reason is far more mundane and pointless, as I'll elaborate on the admin thread.

[Nogrod]

The real reason is far more mundane and pointless, as I'll elaborate on the admin thread.Sorry to have missed that. I just need some sleep now (4AM here now).

Let's hope we can bring this through toDay as a win for the villagers... I'm somewhat confident about it, but there's a nagging in the back of my neck and I try tro get rid of it tomorrow (RL). Hopefully you others are less trigger-happy as our self-proclaimed gifteds were. Let's see these things through before we vote...

Rikae made a good question earlier. If Mac is not the Seer then who is?

We have a few possibilities.

a) Mac is the Seer and has given us the information he has in earnest, as he should.

b) Mac is the Seer and gives us good knowledge, but is in cahoots with his lover Rikae (or Mith? or someone else?) and thence wins as we ignore his "mistress" by the way he wishes us to vote for Xyzzy.

c) The Sixth is the Seer and Mac took a risk that paid off as the Sixth doesn't seem to bother too much of this game.

d) There is no Seer to begin with - and thence Mac's claim to it is a false one (a risk taken and seemingly paying off).

Personally I think the cases a) or b) are probable... But which one of them?

EDIT:
PS. I ignored the chances of Mith or Xyzzy being the Seer as they have been online after Mac's revelation and should have made their counter-claims already.

[Nogrod]

Rikae: If you really drew the wolf to try and kill me with your post at the end of the last Day where you said I'm the one to be most probably killed that Night - and thence released the pressure from Mac - it was a gamble I really appreciate and will bow very low to give you credit for it. That would have been just excellent! That would have paid off just beautifully! Great rangering!

But

if you're having nasty ideas behind this and just wait for the moment you can start rejoicing your wicked victory with Mac, then again, all points to you. You've earned them! But in that case I'm trying to give it a fight still, however non-existent the backing of Xyzzy and The Sixth might be - I hope Mith at least takes a look and a stance as well in that case...

I'll sleep now on top of this and try to have a more balanced view of this tomorrow (RL).

[Rikae]

While I confess I've always found Mac's wit and intelligence rather attractive, I think I'm a bit too old for him. ;)

[Macalaure]

'Yea, we will drink xyzzy's blood gladly, that so we may forget the blood of Gil-Galad our master, and the blood of Legate slain unjustly. Let us slay him swiftly!'

:smokin:


To those who doubt me: check the circumstances under which I revealed. At the time, I thought myself to be in danger of being killed at night. I wasn't in danger of being lynched at all, so why should I have taken that risk? I even would have sacrificed a fairly unsuspected Lommy in the course of it. If I was a wolf who had to fear the existance of a seer, it would've been a truly horrible gamble.
I also would have chosen an earlier point of time on the Day, so that I could make sure Lommy would really be lynched.

Of course, I haven't dreamt of Rikae, so there is a slight chance that she is another wolf and probably Six the ranger. I doubt that, especially since what Rikae has told us of her interaction with Roa sounds very coherent. *listens quietly whether he hears Roa slamming her head against her keyboard from afar*



We have a few possibilities.

a) Mac is the Seer and has given us the information he has in earnest, as he should.

b) Mac is the Seer and gives us good knowledge, but is in cahoots with his lover Rikae (or Mith? or someone else?) and thence wins as we ignore his "mistress" by the way he wishes us to vote for Xyzzy.

c) The Sixth is the Seer and Mac took a risk that paid off as the Sixth doesn't seem to bother too much of this game.

d) There is no Seer to begin with - and thence Mac's claim to it is a false one (a risk taken and seemingly paying off).
For c) and d), see above. It would have been too risky for a wolf, at least if it includes sacrificing his companion, leaving no backdoor for victory if the gamble fails. The timing would have been bad, too.
Concerning b),... are you suggesting a seer lover? Well, it's an interesting idea to have a seer whose concern isn't the good of the village, but, as far as I know, this would be a new kind of role, and Menel said he wouldn't invent new things.

This leaves a).



While I confess I've always found Mac's wit and intelligence rather attractive, I think I'm a bit too old for him. ;) Thanks a lot! I'm really flattered and can only say the same of you in turn (the part before the comma, of course).

However, it's seems that, despite all attractiveness, you have never bothered to ever look up my member profile. ;)
*points to birthdates*

[Mithalwen]

Blimey....

I will look more carefully but I have to bear in mind that Nogrod has a brain that functions at a higher level than mine and that in previous games from the privelieged position of mod or dead gifted I have seen him bark up some wonderfully crafted intellectualy but completely wrong trees.

I will examine all because I would hate to be "done up like a kipper" but in many ways Xyzzy being the last wolf is the most likely speculation.

I still think he was the most likely to have missed a kill with lommy tied up and I am sure that a more active wolf would have taken the very present opportunity to get me lynched (though I have to say that apart from when I was hit by a fit of sarcasm my posts seem quite reasonable to me...). Also I would indeed have been a very "safe" kill last night (and fully expected to be dead) . I know I am an accountant and notice this more than most but it is something to bear in mind - was exposure more a risk than numbers.

However at this stage there is only one thing to do and that is reread everything with the hypotheses in mind - it is how I found out a wolvish Anguirel in the end..

It will take time but since I am here I will organise my day to allow for it! However I doubt I will have firm conclusions til later ....late afternoon say....

[The Sixth Wizard]

Yes people I have come around! :cool:

'Yea, we will drink xyzzy's blood gladly, that so we may forget the blood of Gil-Galad our master, and the blood of Legate slain unjustly. Let us slay him swiftly!'

How bloodthirsty this Werewolf is...

Six is acting weird, but that seems to be his style

and

The Sixth surely looks like he's quite lost many times but he also posts things that at least look pretty complicated.

This probably comes from me being quite a bit younger and also more eccentric than you. Plus I'm not that experienced at Werewolf, obviously. Believe me when I say I am not at all offended. :D

Seeing as my answer is apparently of 'utmost importance', I would like to reveal that I am an (albiet deluded) normal villager. I have no special role and though I must admit Legate's analysis of me was extraordinary, all of the material comes from a lack of experience in Werewolf. I have now learned not to put too much trust in one player and also to not hold a grudge against players like Legate and Gil-Galad who accuse me.

I am just a regular villager. There you go! Believe it or don't!

. . . Anyway we've almost certainly won this game, if Mac is a real Seer, which I think he is.

And without further ado, I might as well vote.

<EDIT>

Shade of Carn Dum! Yessss!

<DOUBLE EDIT>

I don't see a reason to not vote xyzzy. I kinda can relate to a newbie though. Ah well.

++xyzzy

[Mithalwen]

Ah well with 4 non retractable votes gone and 3 for Xyzzy forgive me Noggin dear for not spending a glorious spring day in a futile exercise to humour you :D.

If I wish to frowst inside I have 3 RPG posts to do....

And maybe if all vote.. Menel will put us out of our misery immediately:

After all I was the first to want him out of the way - how ironic that this is effectively merely a show of solidarity...

++Xyzzy

[Nogrod]

I would like to reveal that I am an (albiet deluded) normal villager. I have no special roleThat kind of seals this then. With no contesting claims I'm more than happy and relieved to join the gang.

++ Xyzzy

Hooray!


in previous games from the privelieged position of mod or dead gifted I have seen him bark up some wonderfully crafted intellectualy but completely wrong trees.I've been fooled pretty elaborately at the last meters before *coughValiercough* so I wish to see the options - and the reactions to trhem - first... :rolleyes:

A little add-on just to tease you friends: Now I'm pretty amazed that we have no one to fight for Xyzzy as his lover... I was indeed pretty confident that we'll have a pair of lovers involved in this game. And as we can't be certain about what roles there are in the first place, that leaves a window open for surprises still... but okay. Enough for me. If there is a secret plan behind all this, I'll be glad to congratulate the winners for an excellent performance.

[xyzzy]

I'm as good as dead, now...

...Congratulations, innocents. You've won now.

Now could someone PLEASE explain to me what these Lover roles are, before I die? I've been dying to know, but the ignorance alibi (Who's Lommy, what's their gender, etc.) would have become quite apparent if I suddenly had a real moment of ignorance.

I don't suppose it's too late to enter the Witness Protection Program, is it now? Oh well. Next time, I won't be taken down quite so neatly.

I've considered the idea of hosting an enormous 100+ player game of Werewolf, with lots of people from lots of forums; if I do that, I'm definitely not allowing Meta-discussion. Or is that discussion of Meta, because Meta-discussion would merely be a higher level of conversation, and of course people who've never met each other should be allowed to talk to each other! Now Meta-Meta-conversation, I'd have to limit that, since we don't want people getting confused by referencing other games as if they are this game. And Meta-Meta-Meta-conversation, that would just be stupid.

Anyway, congratulations on being a lot craftier than me.

[Rikae]

However, it's seems that, despite all attractiveness, you have never bothered to ever look up my member profile. ;)
*points to birthdates*

Oh, but you see, I'm terribly old. I'm a Numenorean, after all. 69 is like 29 for the Dúnedain!
:p

So, it looks like we won, Nogrod's fascinating but misguided conspiracy-theories notwithstanding (I always enjoy watching Noggie's thought process; some day when I'm evil again I may use one of his schemes :D ) - maybe Menel-mod will post the final narration early, since we're all here (I think)? I fancy restless spirits are hovering about, eager for after-game disctussion!

Xyzzy - Lovers are two players whose goal is to be the last ones alive; one is a wolf and one an ordo, I believe, and if one dies the other does as well.

[Meneltarmacil]

Well, since all the votes seem to be in, I really see no need to delay any longer.

The villagers gathered once again, hauling xyzzy with them.

"Seriously, I'm innocent!" the merchant shouted. "Are you sure you don't want to buy some exotic spices?"

"Be quiet!" Macalaure answered.

"Alright! I've had enough of you villagers! Prepare to die!" said xyzzy. He grew larger and sprouted dark fur. He let out a howl at the rising moon, bared his fangs, and rushed at the villagers, who started running in terror.

Rikae, however, stood her ground. The Ranger drew her sword and leaped upon the charging beast. Xyzzy tried to throw her off, but she held on tightly as she plunged the sword into the wolf, who died shortly thereafter.

The village was safe. All the wolves were finally gone.

Alive:
Macalaure (Seer)
Mithalwen (Ordinary Villager)
Nogrod (Ordinary Villager)
Rikae (Ranger)
The Sixth Wizard (Ordinary Villager)

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Devoured by Wolves on Night 1
Glirdan (Werewolf): Stoned to death by Villagers on Day 1
the guy who be short (Cobbler): Became the guy who be hung by Villagers on Day 2
Brinniel (Ordinary Villager): Crushed under anvil by Wolves on Night 3
Gil-Galad (Ordinary Villager): Didn't need no stinkin' lynching, but got one from Villagers on Day 3
Thinlómien (Werewolf): Slain by Hunter on Night 4
Roa_Aoife (Hunter): Wounded and devoured by Wolves on Night 4
Legate of Amon Lanc (Ordinary Villager): Pitchforked by villagers on Day 4
xyzzy (Werewolf): Almost lynched by Villagers but then slain by Ranger on Day 5

Villagers win!

Post-game discussion may now begin.

[xyzzy]

Congrats, innocents.

How long does it take for new games to start around here? I swear, I won't be beaten so easily next time. ;)

[Rikae]

So, wolves, did you think Roa was the ranger? Did you ever suspect I was bluffing about protecting Mac? Why did you kill Brinniel? Why the missed kill? Come one, enlighten us!

[Macalaure]

Well, this was a truly paranoid game. It's a pity you didn't get your desired number of player, Menel. The game would have been completely insane. :)
There was a time during the game where I was afraid that I might be a False Seer and was leading the village astray unwittingly.

Excellent rangering, Rikae!

Lommy, I'm almost sorry I caught you. It was much more luck than cunning. You played very well: Legate was the only one of all to suspect you without help or evil intent.

I still don't entirely believe that Nogrod was innocent. Surely Menel made a fault there. ;)

[The Sixth Wizard]

Thanks to everywere involved in my first Werewolf game. I have certainly learned a lot from you and . . . and . . . it's benefited me by . . . well I will probably be much better at lying to people thanks to you!

As to the game itself I was in manacles half the time. Lommy played me like puppet on strings, and it was extraordinarily well-done, fueled by my blasted self satisfaction and arrogance! My hat comes off to you!
:smokin:
(it was the only smiley with a hat)

It's a bit of a relief to see there weren't too many complicated roles, because that means not too many other people were manipulating me. :) I hope though, the next time I play, it won't be the 'Unknown Enemies' again because that was quite confusing at times.

Was Rikae's rangering excellent because she didn't let up too much, lasting all the way to the end? Could people tell us of the strategies they used during the middle point of the game? a.k.a Mac, Rikae, Roa, TGWBS, Werewolves.

[Nogrod]

Yay!

Good game everyone!


Well, this was a truly paranoid game. It's a pity you didn't get your desired number of player, Menel. The game would have been completely insane.To the point. But it also showed that even a small game with enough insecurity concerning the basic information can be a real treat. I enjoyed this to the fullest - and it was nice to last to the end and win for a change... :rolleyes:
I still don't entirely believe that Nogrod was innocent. Surely Menel made a fault there.It's easy to say when you have the information the ordo lacks... :p

But really, a special thanks to our gifteds, all of you! Even if you were badly mistaken with the role of one innocent villager you played the game coolly to the end, and reasonably. Roa and Rikae played together beautifully and Mac had good instincts with his dreams - and the revealment even though it looked a bit premature at the time (one of the reasons I was suspicious of it to begin with) turned out to be the winning move!

Sorry that I needed to wait until The Sixth came on with his confession of being the ordo he was. But as I said, I've been fooled before at the last moments and will never wish to let that happen again.

And yes, if my conspiracy-theories would have been true, this would have been even more remarkable game. :) So Mac and Rikae, take this as a compliment if you wish, but I actually thought you would be cabable to pull the trick and thence needed the comfirmation of the Sixth.

The Sixth and Xyzzy: I hope to see you soon in a game of werewolf again. I think you got the basics now. Just reserve some time to it and play actively. It's a lots of fun.

I loved this, again. Thanks to you people.

[Gil-Galad]

You know what i have noticied out of every werewolf game... my hunches on who the wolves are are usually 3-out-of-4 or 2-out-of-3 (depending on game) so you people should pay more attention to me now... now if i was the seer, oh how i could root out the wolves...

[Thinlómien]

That was a very nice game, although I'm still slightly unhappy about having such bad luck with getting online. Well played everyone, special hats off to Menel, the gifteds and Nogrod and his awesome conspiracy theories... ;)

Oh, and I'm sure you wish to hear my thoughts about the Days and Nights - and even if you don't, I've got to explain them to somebody! :D

Night1
I sent one longish PM to Glirdy and xyzzy, but neither replied - it seems they missed the beginning of the game. So we did not plot anything on Night1. (Except that I recommended to xyzzy, that he maybe shouldn't be familiar with the nickname Lommy - I signed the PM as Lommy - since it is not 100% obvious it comes from Thinlómien: I actually said he shouldn't use that nickname before someone else does. Xyzzy however did far more than that, pretending he had never even heard that name - and it worked miraculously well on one Day! Kudos to xyzzy for that!)

Day1
Disclaimer: I did not intentionally disencourage anyone to vote Glirdy! That never was part of my tactics. That "maybe too suspicious to be guilty" argument was brought because I thought I shouldn't look too sure so early - that's something that sometimes gives out wolf-on-wolf -votes... And even though Mith hinted I might be revenging my fenrisity to the world, that was not the case either... ;) As quite many people said, it was the only reasonable vote to make at that phase - and I must confess that even though I had a feeling that Glirdy might be lynched I didn't feel too bad about that vote.

Night2
That was an "ouch". I sent a PM to xyzzy quite early, giving a list of who I would like to see dead (including Brinn, Legate and Mith at least, if I recall correctly) and asked him to make the final decision and send it to Menel. When I returned to the 'downs the next day, I had a PM from xyzzy that said "I'm so confused, you play this game here so differently from what I've seen" and discovered that no wolf kill had been submitted. So, you see, missing the kill was plain confusion and bad timetables from our part.

Day2
Well, I had some problems in trying to sound genuine: this was the day when I realised how hard work it is to be a wolf when you have to fabricate all your thoughts and be consistent. I almost voted Mac. I maybe should have...

Night3
I had an sms from Nogrod that the Day3 was to begin late Monday night our time, not late Tuesday night as we (or I at least) had assumed. I had a problem. I have no net access home and all libraries were closed because it was Easter Monday. I wasn't sure if I could trust xyzzy to be around and send a kill, because he had been so absent at times. I called my friend, who is also a member called Aganzir here. I asked her some questions about what had happened on Day2 (I hadn't even read it through since I had been without a net access since voting that day), decided to kill Brinn, and asked Aganzir to send the kill to Menel. She sent it and explained my situation, and obviously Menel accepted the kill (which came in a quite extraordinary way). And I did not kill Brinn because she had said she'd take a better look at me - I was not even aware she had said that. I thought she was trusted and might even be gifted. I also thought that killing her would not take any important potential ally from me nor point at me or xyzzy. But actually I had received a PM from xyzzy that Night "are you there? If you're not responding soon, I will be sending in the name of Legate of Amon Lanc". I wonder what happened to that kill, since Brinn was obviously the one who died...

Day3
The misfortunes of that day have been explained on the admin thread...

Night3
Now this was something really funny. Again, I sent xyzzy a list of people I thought we should kill and asked him to make the final choice. I fell for Roa's trap and assumed she was the ranger. However - to my honour I must say the following - I didn't interpret Roa's words "don't worry Mac, the ranger will protect you at night" the most obvious way. I thought Roa was the ranger meaning she was not going to protect Mac during the Night. (I must admit it never crossed my mind why on earth would a ranger say something like this....) So I wrote to xyzzy, that I'd prefer killing Mac, because I thought the ranger wouldn't be protecting him that Night. I said that if he didn't want to take a risk he could make us kill Roa, who is a known innocent and might even be a ranger or then the Sixth Wizard to remove someone thought innocent and to create confusion. (I didn't want us to kill Mith or Nog because I hought they might be my potential allies the next day in case I was going to make some crazy bluff and contest Mac's claim.) I wrote this PM at school. Then I went to spend the night with friend, and forgot about ww for hours. However, going home, a realisation hit me. I was 95% sure Roa was the hunter. It was still a few hours 'til the deadline. If I had had a computer with a net home, I would probably have contacted xyzzy or Menel and tried to prevent the Roa-kill (since I was fairly sure xyzzy wanted to kill her). But as I didn't have, I let the thing be (even though I might have asked Aganzir to help me again, but I didn't consider it that important). I thought that Roa's such a gambler that she might well hunt someone else than me. I was wrong. But isn't it quite ironic that we attacked someone I knew was the hunter and guessed that might be after me?

Seems it got quite long... ...

[Brinniel]

(I'm copying and pasting this from the admin thread)

So, apparently I'm really really bad at werewolf. I even attempted to do a deeper analysis than I did for my first game, and still I was way off. Oh well...sorry guys. *bangs head against desk for stupidity*

The main problem is I think I spent a lot of time searching for some sort of conspiracy. I felt so certain there would be some sort role like Lovers that would be difficult to seek out. Even when I was just watching the game, I thought there could easily be false gifteds...the idea seemed so tricksy (plus it would've been rather entertaining to watch). When I look back at it, the clues to finding the wolves were laid out quite plainly (though that was partly due to meta-reasons). I guess I just didn't think it would be that easy... :rolleyes:

Kudos to Lommy though, who had me completely fooled. Though, I would still like to know why I was chosen for a kill. Here I was, defending a wolf and accusing two innocents. I think it would've been so easy to get me lynched if you really wanted to...

*imagines Brinniel screaming at her screen because everyone is dismissing her death as uninformative*
Hehe...I admit that made me laugh. :D But hey...I can't be mad because it's true. My death was basically an uninformative one. Heh...oh well. Sorry again...

I think the only time I was actually screaming at the computer was when everyone decided to lynch Legate. I just couldn't believe he was a wolf...

Okay, where's the admin thread for the next game already? I may be bad at werewolf, but sadly enough, after only two games I am very addicted. I have no self-discipline... :rolleyes:

[Brinniel]

And I did not kill Brinn because she had said she'd take a better look at me - I was not even aware she had said that. I thought she was trusted and might even be gifted. I also thought that killing her would not take any important potential ally from me nor point at me or xyzzy. But actually I had received a PM from xyzzy that Night "are you there? If you're not responding soon, I will be sending in the name of Legate of Amon Lanc". I wonder what happened to that kill, since Brinn was obviously the one who died...
Thanks for the explanation. Makes sense now. :)

[Roa_Aoife]

Well done, everyone- that game was certainly fun. Despite the loss, the baddies did very well. So then, here's the plotting from my side- Rikae can add her side as she chooses.

Rikae and I were allowed to PM during the Day only. This wasn't a huge problem for the most part, since we were both around at the begining of every Day. However, the end of each day was messy, since I was not around, and Rikae had information she wanted to check with me. This actually resulted in a funny occurance when on Night 2, I hunted Nogrod and she protected him.

Day 1
I started with my now infamous "Catch All" post about possible roles. I had a double purpose for that- one was to move the discussion along and into actual work; the other was to look for people who insisted on continuing the debate and carry the discussion away from the all important goal of catching wolves. (And it worked- TGWBS's continuation of it tripped my alarms.) Rikae and I PMed each other to discuss strategy and our roles, etc. For the record, I would not have made a kill if lynched. We decided to take the middle road- not ignore each other, not exonerate each other, and not heavily suspect each other. She posted her response to my post with another dual purpose- keeping up a distance between us, and looking for people to jump on the suspicion. (Another Baddie caught with Glirdan!)

Night 2
For better or for worse, I had signed off for the Day just as Nogrod was becoming active, so I could only read and review what had been posted while I was out. Nogrod's post seemed horribly off to me somehow, and I chose to hunt him because of it. If it makes you feel better, Nogrod, the thought of you as a wolf had me hoping for death so I could take you out with me; I was that worried about it.

Day 2
Rikae and I made our discoveries. At first we thought Nogrod had been attacked and protected, so we thought he was a known innocent. (That's what I get for reading the game thread before the admin thread.) Then we realized the truth of the matter. While she explained to me via PM why she thought he was innocent, I worked on an analysis of him to better explain why I suspected him. We also openly debated on the thread to further show distance between us- making it apparent that we couldn't commincate otherwise. I quite seriously suspected him. I mean, caution is all well and good, but everything should be taken in moderation. Something about the way he talked so much without saying anything reminded me of a wolvish SPM.

Night 3
I hunted Gil, for the reasons in the thread. Rikae had asked me prior if I had an opinion on whom to protect. I thought Sixth, because everyone pretty much trusted him except Gil (whom I thought was evil.)

Day 3
I was really getting tired of living, so I started dropping Ranger hints. (That's what the surprise about the Brinniel kill was about.) I have a chart that I use every game for keeping track of who suspects / votes for whom, and I busied myself filling it out for each Day, and cross-checking, etc. (In case your wondering, I kick butt at Clue.) That's how I found Brinniel's remark about checking out Lommy. Nogrod's case against me was based entirely on an unproven theory about TGWBS, so I was even more suspicious of him.
Also, Rikae and I started to worry that no one was suspecting her and the wolves would kill her because of it. I did my "analysis" of her to throw suspicion in her direction with out getting her lynched. Turns out it wasn't even necessary.
However, as I was about to make my final post before leaving for work, my husband's recruiter called to tell us that Mr. Roa was to be shipped out the very next day, as opposed to several months from now, which is what we had been expecting. You may notice that that post seems a bit rushed- it's because I was in full blown panic and trying (and failing) to keep calm. We were called back 10 minutes later to be told it was false alarm. If it was possible to kill someone via phone, I assure you the tech sergeant would no longer be with us. I did the only thing I could- vote my top suspect and leave.
When I came back, I only had 30 minutes to catch up, and I had just enough time to drop my final Ranger hint. I sent a pm to Rikae, telling her to protect Mac, just incase the wolves didn't take the bait.

Night 4
Never have I been so happy to be killed by the wolves. I hunted Lommy with yet another dual purpose in mind- one to kill a potential wolf, and one to prove if Mac was lying. I had the crazy idea that Nogrod and Lommy were lovers, so I half expected to read my death scene on Day 4 as having 3 dead, instead of two. :rolleyes:

That's my end. I was truly shocked to hear that Nogrod was innocent the next Day, though all his talk about lovers made me wonder if I was right about him being one.

[Rikae]

Well...my strategy for the first few days is pretty much covered in Roa's post. I thought Nogrod was innocent & his vote placement on day 1 would make him universally trusted, and therefore he'd be a likely wolf kill, so I protected him on night 1. I was quite surprised when Roa pm'd the next day to say she hunted him.

Night 2, I protected Sixth, as Roa suggested.
Day 3, like I said in the game, I thought Mac was lying because he gave no indication whatsoever of knowing Roa's role (I thought he would have dropped some kind of hint if he did), but after Gil turned out to be innocent, I decided to be on the safe side and protect Mac on night 3.
On day 3, seeing Lommy was a wolf, I trusted Mac & thought I didn't have anything to lose (except my life :p )by bluffing to protect him for one more night. At first I actually thought I would be killed if the wolf thought Mac was protected, but Nogrod's suspicions made me realize that wasn't necessarily the case. I mentioned the possibility Nogrod would be the kill primarily to reinforce the idea that Mac was protected; the fact that Xyzzy actually attacked Nogrod was just the "icing on the cake", so to speak. Obviously, I couldn't protect Mac or myself, so I protected Nogrod on night 4, betting Sixth or Xyzzy would 'follow my advice'.
Nogrod actually had me a little worried on the last day, with his suspicion that Mac and I were lovers - which, in retrospect, was pretty cool because it kept the game exciting right to the end.
I think this may be the first time I've survived to the end of a game...maybe the second.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, you really didn't have it easy, Ranghuns, and the better now your performance looks - I think you two made a very good cooperative team.
Lommy, from what you post it looks like you wolves have been quite unfortunate this time, even more now than it seemed to us "outsiders". However, it seems you really did what was in your power. After all, xyzzy fooled me pretty well with that Thinlómien-Lommy thing.
And where's tgwbs, that ol' cobbler? Did he have at least a clue of who the wolves are, or not?

I think the only time I was actually screaming at the computer was when everyone decided to lynch Legate. I just couldn't believe he was a wolf...
At least someone :D

Okay, where's the admin thread for the next game already? I may be bad at werewolf, but sadly enough, after only two games I am very addicted. I have no self-discipline... :rolleyes:
My words!

[the guy who be short]

Dear Gott... Am I the worst cobbler EVER?

So, no, I had no real idea of who the wolves were. I don't think I had enough days for that. I went after Lommy on day one for attacking Glirdan, because people always attack him when they have no better leads. And I thought, hey, Lommy's a good player, why not try to get her lynched? Never once did I think the analysis I posted on the thread was true!

So, day 2 came along. I realised that, as Glirdan had been shown to be a wolf, I was in a very bad position for protecting him. Thinking I might die because of it, I decided to cause as much confusion as possible. I kept going after Lommy, trying to hint I was the Seer. I thought that one of Legate or Mac would be a wolf, trying to support me and help me lynch an innocent Lommy. If time zones had been more friendly, I would have revealed myself as a Seer near the end, and Lommy as a wolf. Then, when she was lynched and shown to actually be a wolf, I would seriously curse myself. The last remaining wolf would think I was actually the seer and be against me. Thank God I was lynched!

If anything, my death at that point was very helpful to the wolves. My theory about Lommy being a wolf seemed so incredibly contrived that suspicion turned away from her. If I'd lived and declared myself a seer, I'd almost certainly have got her lynched untimely.

Roa was spot on when she said that I was upset because I'd been planning a reveal! I really have to applaud her for her brilliance this game. However, I didn't really mean to go on about roles... all that stuff was actually sincere!

Worst cobbler ever? Do I get a prize?

[Macalaure]

I thought that one of Legate or Mac would be a wolf, trying to support me and help me lynch an innocent Lommy. If time zones had been more friendly, I would have revealed myself as a Seer near the end, and Lommy as a wolf. Then, when she was lynched and shown to actually be a wolf, I would seriously curse myself. The last remaining wolf would think I was actually the seer and be against me. Thank God I was lynched!
Now that would have been incredible fun. Imagine you would've survived the night and got to play as a supposed seer! Maybe you even would have decided to claim to have dreamt of me being a wolf. They wouldn't have believed my counter-claim and lynched me instead! :D

[Rikae]

I would have revealed myself as a Seer near the end, and Lommy as a wolf. Then, when she was lynched and shown to actually be a wolf, I would seriously curse myself.That's hilarious! That along with the protecting/hunting Nogrod thing...this had to be one of the funniest games I've been in.

x'd with Mac

[Brinniel]

Now that would have been incredible fun. Imagine you would've survived the night and got to play as a supposed seer! Maybe you even would have decided to claim to have dreamt of me being a wolf. They wouldn't have believed my counter-claim and lynched me instead!
Oh my! :eek:

Well, I must admit that would have been terribly entertaining if it had indeed happened. I'm not even sure how I would've reacted...

[Macalaure]

Oh my! :eek:

Well, I must admit that would have been terribly entertaining if it had indeed happened. I'm not even sure how I would've reacted...

The horrible thing would have been that I would have had to tell people of my dreams, and all I could've said was: "Well, Lommy is evil.. umm.. was evil."

I doubt I would have been able to talk myself out of it. :rolleyes:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Yes, possibly if tgwbs did that, and Lommy was lynched, then Mac couldn't say anything to prove he's right. Though at the moment Mac was lynched as fake seer, we would know he was the Seer, and tgwbs would go as well. Though, there will still be one wolf left, and no seer, so who knows...
Only if we wouldn't conclude that Menel decided to give us two seers, which would speak for tgwbs and maybe he could make yet some mess... :p

[xyzzy]

Heh, my strategy for the whole game was feigning ignorance of how any of the roles work, and it worked, since little differences do exist. Unfortunately, by the time I realized I wouldn't be able to send a list for night 2, it was too late; otherwise, the game may have been very different.

I'm kind of mad that no one believed my accusation of Macalaure at the ned, but I suppose it would have been better when we first found out that Mac was the Seer.

Did people assume I had some sort of master strategy behind playing the game in a completely opposite fashion, or did it just make me look like a moron? Either way, it's an accurate interpretation.;)

[Nogrod]

Did people assume I had some sort of master strategy behind playing the game in a completely opposite fashion, or did it just make me look like a moron? Either way, it's an accurate interpretation.;)I wouldn't say either. But you were a bit quiet to say the least...

It is a discussion that has been made quite a few times and I don't want to unleash the debate once again. But to just make the point in a mild way that I think many of the werewolf-players here might agree, I would say that as everything in this game is based on what people say it's not so nice if some people just stay quiet as then the others have nothing to chew on them and it becomes a matter of simple "heads and tails". I mean if everyone just threw oneliners (I'm not saying you did that all the game) there would be no game in the first place, just random voting.

Surely people have different strategies and personalities and everyone should be able to play with the style that fits them or which they wish to adopt in any given game. But something like a little above the absolute minimum participation shows the sportsmanship at least I value highly in my fellow-players, be they on my side or be they my adversaries. Participating players make the game interesting and challenging and thus enjoyable.

But this was your first game so please do not read this as a negative feedback of any sort. As I saw the other games you have been playing I can see there is a difference and it must have been pretty hard to adjust to our style here.

I hope you enjoy playing BD-werewolf for many games to come!

[The Saucepan Man]

I would say that as everything in this game is based on what people say it's not so nice if some people just stay quiet as then the others have nothing to chew on them and it becomes a matter of simple "heads and tails".Here we go again ... ;)

I'm sure that I have said it before, but I rather like the mix of different players. Admittedly, if everyone stuck to one liners, the game wouldn't be such fun. But having some players who do just adds to the spice. The old "what do to with Gil?" conundrum. :D

That said, I most certainly would not wish to dissuade you from your new approach, Gil, as I regard it as a most positive development. I thought that they were all rather rotten for killing you off, just as you were upping your level of engagement. ;) And there may well be something in this claim of yours for having good instincts, at least on the evidence of the past few games.

Anyway, a fun game to watch. My views on who the Wolves were changing daily until the reveals started coming in. And I was surprised to see that Glirdan actually was a Wolf, as I always find those who look the most suspicious among the least suspicious, and certainly on Day One. In any event, I rather like games where the roles are not known, as it keeps everyone guessing.

So, well done Menel for a great modding job, and well done villagers for the win - ably assisted by some great Gifteds. Bad luck, Wolves. It's a shame that you were hampered by communication problems, as the game might have been quite different had you not been.

~An avid Werewolf spectator~

[Nogrod]

I'm sure that I have said it before, but I rather like the mix of different players. Admittedly, if everyone stuck to one liners, the game wouldn't be such fun. But having some players who do just adds to the spice. The old "what do to with Gil?" conundrum.You're right. The mix at least grants the shared focus of discussion over what to do with them in games where there is suddenly no other good ideas about what to talk of... :D

But the quiets have been seldomly lynched early in the game so they kind of inbalance the game in favour of the wolves in the end. When I'm a wolf I have no problem with that. I may bark on it in the thread but by Night I'm most strict of not killing them as it is the task of the villagers to do it if they're in doubt about the goals of them...

But yes, variety is good.

I probably just wanted to say that some minimal attendance would be welcomed. The oneliners (no one person thought here in special) can use all the talk of the louder ones to make their strategies but the louder ones have nothing for the oneliners. That's an inbalance I don't like myself. As you said Spm, the game needs people who speak. Without it there is no game. So just hanging on with oneliners is a bit parasitic in a way...

Here we go again ...Hopefully not in the length and seriousity this has been carried on some earlier times. I do not think I'm thinking about this matter in any extreme way nowadays. Indeed the way Gil played this time made me feel really good about him (and I can't see why people wished to lynch him anyway).

Gah. I'm pretty happy with the game we had in this regard. So maybe I'll just shut up... :)

PS. Nice new avatar Spm! ;)

[Mithalwen]

That said, I most certainly would not wish to dissuade you from your new approach, Gil, as I regard it as a most positive development. I thought that they were all rather rotten for killing you off, just as you were upping your level of engagement. ;) And there may well be something in this claim of yours for having good instincts, at least on the evidence of the past few games.


~An avid Werewolf spectator~

Sauce, do you think maybe you need a twelve step programme ;)


a I do think it is great that Gil is participating .. and I was impressed by his picks last game.. but you can't blame me for fighting back......

What I really thougyht was funny though was how Lommy was quite so desperate to see me dead and her reasoning when weknew she was furry....

It was still a relief though since it disproved the possibility that I was a Mythomaniac..that IS spellt with a Y people ;)

[the guy who be short]

So, how did people feel about role naivety? I loved it, and think it should be implemented in future games. It adds to the role-play side of things, not knowing about roles.

I think mods could have a LOT of fun with the idea in future.

[Mithalwen]

Well Iquite like it.. and it was funny that I was suspected of being just about everything bad and everyone's lover :rolleyes: when it wasn't annoying...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

So, how did people feel about role naivety? I loved it, and think it should be implemented in future games. It adds to the role-play side of things, not knowing about roles.

I think mods could have a LOT of fun with the idea in future.

You mean on not knowing the roles? Well, yes, it is fun, but also... how should I... psycho, to be honest. And sometimes I think it's better to know the roles, you feel more sure. To you, as players who play their 50th game, it might feel as a breath of new, fresh air in the line of "mundane" games, but for someone like me (I don't know how Brinniel&other newbies feel about it) I'd certainly preserve some games where it is known, not to confuse the newcomers too much...

Though yes, it's a good idea. Had I been the mod, I'd certainly choose not to introduce the roles :p For the mod, it must be obviously great fun. And if there are really many roles, not only as here we had them, but as in the original idea Menel had, it would be seriously gigantic fun. "You lynched your Batman!" "We lynched our what?" :D

[the guy who be short]

I like the "psycho" side of things. You're right, not all games should have role naivety, because it might scare of new players. But for those that do... there's so much potential for Mods creating havoc:

Multiple Seers
Multiple Lovers
False Seers
Separate Werewolf groups
Make everybody a wolf in separate groups, last group alive wins.
Multiple Rangers/Hunters
Making everybody gifted.
No gifteds.
Make every villager a cobbler.
Shirriffs.
False Shirriffs??
Not to mention new roles just to muck people about. :D

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

False Seers

I don't know if it's not off-topic to start about it on this thread, but since you mentioned this, I wanted only to ask: what is a "false Seer"? It's a person who is told by the Mod he is a Seer and he is not, or what? :cool:

[Nogrod]

what is a "false Seer"? It's a person who is told by the Mod he is a Seer and he is not, or what? :cool:S/he's someone who is told to be a Seer and s/he will then send her/his dreams to the mod. Depending on the mod's decision the "answers" the false seer gets are either wrong eveytime or wrong a part of the time...

Not knowing the roles was great fun but I wouldn't wish to play in that way everytime.

Diamond (I think?) had a highly paranoic game a year ago (about) where we were not told the roles of those killed eg. we knew the roles there were in the beginning but didn't know which were being killed during the game...

[Thinlómien]

It's a person who is told by the Mod he is a Seer and he is not, or what? :cool:Yes and they can dream too, but they don't get it right or don't get it right for certain.

What I really thougyht was funny though was how Lommy was quite so desperate to see me dead and her reasoning when weknew she was furry....Sorry to spoil your joy :p, but I really wasn't desperate to get rid of you. Noggie called me that night and said he could ask Menel if I could vote via Nogrod. I was not especially keen on that - since I hadn't a very good idea what was going on in the late hours nor had I thought too much about it after giving up (with the library computers) - but I agreed. (Nogrod wanted me to vote because he said people had difficulties with froming a picture about me since I'm so absent...)

edit: obviously xed with Noggie

[The Saucepan Man]

Diamond (I think?) had a highly paranoic game a year ago (about) where we were not told the roles of those killed eg. we knew the roles there were in the beginning but didn't know which were being killed during the game...Ah, good memories ... :p ;)

[Lalaith]

Maybe for you.
Honk.
Brute.

[Rikae]

...four months later:

Thank you, Menel, for a very memorable game!