Werewolf XXXII: The Lost Age

[Volo]

A calm night was beginning. Moonlight and a warm wind were upon Ossiriand. Summer had a wonderful start and Yávië was as nice as it could be. A light rain started. This was perfect weather, wasn’t too hot, but warm enough for the rain to be pleasant. The beach of a little lake, the most beautiful place imaginable.

Enhilion was watching the waves as they slowly disappeared under the earth. He hoped with the whole of his heart that he could just sit like this again. But that meant that he had to succeed in his wicked mission. He rose up, the talk earlier during this period came back to his head. Enhilion felt that this was wrong, he had made his biggest mistake. But then again, would he want to sacrifice the sight of those waves for the life he had?

[Volo]

Once a great city, Kaimoir was slowly falling into decay. Great pillars were covered with moss. Most of the houses were abandoned and palaces stood empty. Silence was complete. And so was darkness.

The cave was found by the First King, no one can remember his name today. It is strange, such a leader’s name should be in every song. But no, it had faded, as if by intention. Some say that he is still there, haunting the Halls of Kings. When the First came with his people, the cave was all empty. Strangely the race began to grow and prosper. The empty caves turned into wonders of stone, even the skills of the dwarves were matched.

The new race became a terror above ground, raiding at night. Their abilities in battle were greater than of the greatest human warriors. Like a cloud they swept over villages. Fear grew in Men. Even many elves were afraid of this horror.
This new race was great indeed. The city of Kaimoir was built to the size it still remains nowadays, but then it was full of people, happy and wealthy. Gold and silver adorned even the poorest homes. The key to their success was being hidden. Their raids had brought riches and fear to their enemies, but nobody really knew who or what this horrible race was. But in open war they would have probably defeated their foes.

Luckily for every other race it never went so far as open war. For as the First Age ended the race began to diminish. Nobody knew the reason. Or nobody except the King. Some feared that the fall of Morgoth was the reason, but nobody wanted openly relate their strength with the Dark Lord.

Raids became rare and the terror was turned into myth. Their population dwindled. Only a few children were born every century. The life-span shortened to about two hundred years, when in their glory they could live over the age of five hundred. Still even the few that were left were stronger than any man and most of elves.

Strangely the King ordered the gate to the cave closed and none have left the city since. In hunger they lived for centuries, for they cannot die of hunger like men, but they feel it stronger. The only thing that prevailed was the line of Kings, one after another they kept their power and will. Even now when few of the race survive a king sits on his throne.

[Volo]

Enhilion could not believe his ears, Firithhyando had ordered him to get ready for battle. Real battle. Sure Enhilion had practised fighting from birth, he even thought of himself as being quite good at it. No, he didn’t match the skills of his elders, but he liked the way he used a sword and enjoyed it.

But now this was something new, a real battle. Would that mean that the gates would be opened the first time for many centuries? Would Enhilion be the first Vampire to see the outside world? Something no one had done before or so long ago that knowledge about it was all lost.

The young lad was really excited and afraid. This must mean that he had to meet the King. He had seen the King two times in his life, once when his grandmother died and once when his little sister was born, the family had gone together to tell the King those news. The King seemed happy when he heared about the girl, it was the first time for more than a thousand years that two children were born into one family. Sadness held long when little Astore died in a landslide. Anyway, Enhilion didn’t like the King and would rather not meet him again, unless he really had to.

Enhilion had packed all his belonings: his rone jacket and trousers (Rones are somewhat pig-like creatures that are the only animals in Kaimoir and Kaimoir is the only place where rones live. Rones eat mushrooms and are eaten or turned into leather objects by Vampires.), his family heirloom sword he prefered over fangs and claws, his rone-skin bottle and some mushroom cakes (the only food in Kaimoir, except for everything made out of rones, but…). He was ordered to have a good sleep before the journey would begin, early next period (the terms ”day” and ”night” aren’t used in a cave with no sunlight).

Enhilion was too excited and when he finally fell asleep he rolled off his bunk and woke again. He decided that it was useless and walked out of his great stone house. He really hoped that he wouldn’t fail in the battle, that could be the end of his race. Of the Vampires only five were alive now, and he doubted that they could remain much longer, the race was fading to an end.

[Volo]

Enhilion was running through the empty streets. Suddenly he heared voices, it was Firithhyando, the second youngest Vampire. Firithhyando was talking to Numundo, the middle Vampire.

Numundo continued the talk in the usual hoarse voice ”…if he fails. You know how gentle he is. I doubt he’ll do it”.

Firithhyando, Enhilion’s best friend, answered, ”He might be gentle, but he fights better than you” .

”Not true”, grumbled Numundo.

”Maybe not, but I’m sure he’ll do just fine”, Firithhyando tried to convince Numundo, but without much success.

Enhilion pressed himself hard against the wall, he knew that they were talking about him. Was something important being hidden? Fear came to him as he heared steps closen. They went by, it was Lossenatar, only the King was older than this great warrior.

”Arguing about the kid? The King wants him to go with us, so that’s what will happen”, Lossenatar wasn’t angry, but seemed rather troubled.

Enhilion felt uneasy, if even Lossentar was worried, this mission must be hard indeed. What if he blundered…

Firithhyando said, ”See there Num, I told you. He’ll manage”. To everybody’s dismay Lossenatar mumbled ”I hope…”

[Volo]

Numundo dared to ask, ”What exactly do we need to do behind the Wall? You keep saying how important it is and that there will be a fight and all, but what is the reason of this madness?”

”Let’s not call it madness, for that is the will of the King. This is our only way to survive, you must see it by now. We’re dying! Another hundred years and we’ll be gone. Completely!” Lossenatar said rapidly.

Firithhyando asked again calmly, ”Yes, dear Los, what is the goal of our mission? It seems you know much more than us. And all I thought was that we go and fight a bit and come back”.

”You’ll know tomorrow, the King-” started Lossenatar, to be interupted by Numundo, ”Start talking sense! Or me and Fir won’t be going anywhere”.
”Oh, calm down”.

But the two younger Vampires didn’t seem to be content with that. Lossenatar gave up, ”I’ll tell. If you don’t tell Enhilion… He won’t like that”.

[Volo]

The two nodded. Enhilion was starting to panic, his heart was beating so loudly that he feared the elders would notice him.

But nothing happened, Lossenatar continued, ”The King says that we’ll die. He told me some knowledge lost long ago. We Vampires became a great nation by converting Men to Vampires. It is true that our power faded with the death of the Dark Lord, we were originally made by him. Our King… he is The King. King Yulnagar is the First King, Melkor’s Maia…”

Enhilion couldn’t believe it, this was against anything he has been taught, it couldn’t be true. Was all his life just a lie? Yes… Oh hell, Enhilion wouldn’t go anywhere after this. He decided that he’ll say straight that he won’t fight for a liar. Never!

”Our King Yulnagar rebelled against Melkor and fled to Ossiriand. In fear he hid in this cave, all by himself. For a long time he never left this place. But during the centuries his hunger grew and he couldn’t bear it anymore. He fled back outside and attacked Men. Then he found his skill! He could convert the weak Men into us, Vampires. Though the Vampires of that time were far greater than us. And so we lived here and hunted at night, converting more and more and our number growing larger and larger. Yulnagar thought that by being just a simple king he could have more power over us, that’s why he chose the same role as us”.

Firithhyando looked at Numundo, Numundo looked amazed. Firithhyando’s voice shook but soon regained it’s calmness, ”So it was like this, interesting. I feared that this was the case. But I understand your motives now”.

”What! You knew? How?” Numundo was shocked. Lossenatar seemed to be rather surprised.

Firithhyando said quietly, ”I had a vision once…

”No, nothing. Forget it… But Los, tell me, why was the gate closed?”

”I was coming to that. Yulnagar, being a Maia of Melkor lost his power to convert Men into Vampires as the Dark Lord fell. He was scared of the other Valar. That would be the reason”.

There was a silence which was broken by Numundo, ”And what is the meaning of our mission? Get back to the point!”

Lossenatar thought for a while and answered, ”I know that this might sound like Yulnagar betrayed us… He doesn’t know if we can succeed in this, or can he succeed in it. He told me that he might be able to turn a few Men into Vampires with his last strength, it takes a lot to do such a deed. But he’s thinking about us, this is the only way to continue our race…”

Lossenatar had a short pause, but before the old warrior continued, Firithhyando killed all Enhilion’s hopes, ”Yes dear Numundo, our mission seems to be the capturing of Men.”

Capturing Men, Enhilion understood that this was for the greater good of the Vampire’s race, but he never wanted to capture anyone, it felt much worse than killing, not that he had ever done either.

Lossenatar exclaimed, ”Yes, exactly! Though I am sorry to say this, but there is also another thing that makes our job difficult. You see, King Yulnagar has forgotten the spell to turn Men into Vampires… We have to bring him many Men just in case he casts a wrong spell on them. And this is where my own plan comes to life!”




Night 1 Begins

Vampires may chat


The living:

Gil-Galad
The Saucepan Man
Rikae
Boromir88
Nogrod
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Thinlómien
Brinniel
Legate of Amon Lanc
Aganzir
Meneltarmacil
Xyzzy
Roa_Aoife
Macalaure
Diamond18
Shastanis Althreduin
Celuien
Kitanna
Sleepy Ranger
Durelin
Glirdan
Rune Son of Bjarne
The Sixth Wizard


Notice:
I'll start the day a half an hour earlier tomorrow.

[Volo]

Total darkness.

Silence.

A scream.

Silence.

A light.

Darkness.

The light growing back: a torch was lit.

A tall and skinny man was holding the torch, he didn’t look that old, but in the little light it was hard to see his age. There were 23 men and women of different ages and origins around him. Some were sulking and some were just sitting quietly, but all of them were equally confused.

Then, again, a young lass in a yellow dress, Lomiella let out a scream and started crying.

A short and stocky man in ragged clothes, Glirdan consoled the girl by patting her on the back and whispering, ”It’s ok, we’re fine. Calm down, nobody’s hurt…”

An another man, Xyzzy came forth to the tall man holding the torch. ”Where are we? Where did you find that?” he said pointing at the torch.

The skinny lad answered shakingly, ”Umm… It was lying here beside me, I stumbled on it”.

”And how did you manage to light it?” asked a clearly annoyed woman in black, Brinniel.

”I, I…”

An older man, Boromir, shocked by the situation, defended the shaken lad, ”Oh leave the poor guy alone, will ya. Don’t you see, he’s just as badly shokked as we all. No good at accusing him of anything right now. There are many more important things we must ask ourselves.”

Some ragged guy in a flat cap, Sleepy shouted from behind the circle, ”Yeah! Where are we? Who are we? Why are we here? How did we manage to get here? That’s the stuff I’d be glad to have an answer to”.

Long silence followed.

A cough and a tall man hiding in his grey cloak, Rune said calmly, as if to the darkness, ”I guess that was the answer. Nobody knows. Or nobody want’s us others to know. From my part, I was carving badgers at home when everything suddenly disappeared”.

Everybody nodded to that and general agreement was present.

Long silence followed.

”So, are we just going to stand here and wait for a miracle to happen. I feel like there won’t be any miracle for a while…” Aganzir, the hefty bearded woman said heavily. And after a short pause continued, ”Hey, you with the torch. What’s your name? Help me find more of those, we need to explore our situation”.

The torch-guy smiled nervously and answered, ”I’m En… Enohl. I think I saw more of these there beside that building”.

Everybody turned to look it the direction Enohl pointed, it was all dark and nobody could see anything.

”Give me that”, a woman in the tatters of rich clothes, Diamond grabbed Enohl’s torch and walked to the wall. It did turn out to be a building of some sort and torches were stacked neatly beside it. The woman smirked, ”You have good sight, my lad”. Diamond lit a second torch and throw it to a man, who stood close by.

The man caught it and spoke loudly, ”Heh, now friends, come and get your torches. We should explore this place before something explores our flesh, I wonder what beasts live in this darkness. Oh, and my name is Gil-Galad by the way”.

”There aren’t any beasts in this cave we should worry about-” Enohl started to shout, but realized that he made a big mistake.

Everyone was staring at Enohl. A sturdy-framed man, Nogrod walked close to him and stuck a finger in Enohl’s chest, ”Now wait a moment, what did you just say? You seem to know more than the rest of us. Would you be so kind to tell! Who the heck are you?”

Enohl backed away looking frightened. ”I, I…”

”What?” The strong man advanced at him again.

Suddenly Legate a man nearly of Nogrod’s size put a hand on Nogrod’s shoulder. ”Leave him be, if you scare him out of his skin, he won’t be of any help. I feel he’s just as innocent as me or you. Or even more than that”.

Nogrod turned quickly getting ready to punch Legate. Luckily for Legate, a small woman with short hair and subtle features, Roa came between the two tall men and Nogrod put his hand down. He said harshly, ”Now don’t you interfere. Where did that boy go”.

And indeed. Enohl was running away.



-~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------~~-



Enhilion was running away, tears were flying into the air. He had made a mistake and now it would probably cost the life of his whole race. And Enhilion only wanted to calm the Men down. He couldn’t understand why the Men were so evil and got angry so quickly. Sure the Vampires imprisoned them, but why would they want to harm even their own friends. Well, in fact that was the whole plan, to get the Men to fight with each other that the Vampires could be left alone. It seemed all wrong, Enhilion didn’t even want to hurt those Men, they are no warriors, they are weak. They were taken from their lives by force… A bit like Enhilion himself. He began crying and cursing again.

In the circle of Men there was also a lot of cursing. Nogrod had been shouting all the while, but didn’t dare go after the kid in this darkness. ”It’s all your fault! Why did you let him flee?”

Boromir, Legate and Roa tried to calm Nogrod down but without much success. The only thing they achieved was more shouts.

In the total confusion nobody noticed Mac, the man who was hiding in his hood and sitting on the ground outside the circle, vanish. He had snached a torch and was now running to the direction Enohl disappeared. Mac followed the boy’s cries. For a while the sobs ended and Mac was lost in the darkness but soon he heared weeping again. Close by, just in front of Mac. He walked slowly toward the sound, it wasn’t moving away anymore, but it stopped before Mac found his target.

Mac had run too far from the rest to either hear or see them, but there in the little light his torch cast he could see that the city or whatever it seemed to be, was going on and on. Fright gripped his. And just a moment later Mac tripped on something soft…

”I’m sorry, I lost control over myself. I didn’t mean it, it’s ok now”. Nogrod had at last come back to sense.

”I understand, we are all afraid and don’t know what to do. But we should try to unite our strength to survive. Whoever that boy was, he’s gone now”, said Morgan, a straw-haired man who was sitting quietly until this.

”No! He hasn’t gone”.

Everybody turned to see who said this. It was Mac and he was holding Enohl by the neck. Mac threw the scared lad in the middle of the crowd with a melancholic smile.

Enohl fell right on his face, but quickly rolled to face the angry crowd. He was panting hard and his nose was bleeding.

Mac explained, ”I ran after him when you were arguing. Found him quite far lying on the ground. It scared me to death, but now I think this fellow is much more scared than I have ever been”.

”Oh, good that someone has sense in the head. So boy, let us know your secrets”, said Kitanna a woman in a white shirt, black riding boots and a smirk on her face.

Enohl opened his mouth and then closed it and his eyes, he took a long breath and said, ”I and three of my friend are Vampires, we just-”

A commotion started. Nogrod backed away from Enohl, ”You, you cursed beast! What have you done to us!” He then grabbed a torch and ran on Enohl. So, fear of Vampires did exist in the outside world.

Enohl sreamed and shouted for his friends, that seemed to have betrayed their young ally. He glanced at them and understood that he was alone. Enohl gathered his knowledge and began chanting the incantation to change into a bat, it wasn’t easy and he had done it only a few times.

Nogrod was nearly on him when a commanding voice came from all around, ”Stop”.



-~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------~~-



Everybody stopped. A darkness darker than any other darkness appeared beside Enohl, who was now gazing at it with his mouth open. Slowly the darkness took the shape of a cloaked man. The cloaked man raised his gloved hand to point Enohl, ”Your time is over. You have been chosen to die”.

Rikae, the beautiful lady with long black hair and gray eyes, gathered the will to ask, ”Who, or what, are you? What will you do to us?”

The cloaked head turned to face Rikae and a chill pierced her. The same toneless voice, seeming older than the world, darker than the darkness, spoke, ”I am the Oracle. I have been summoned here to help you. Like this traitor told you, there are three Vampires among you. It is my mission to destroy them”.

The scared crowd didn’t know which to fear more: the Vampires or this clearly more powerful being, that did seem to be their ally.

A tall and extremely muscular man, Menel, barked at the figure, ”How can we trust you? You can be one of them and take the life of our own three”.

”How indeed? You can either trust me or trust me not. I leave the choice to you. My only advise to you is to choose the former… if you wish to live”.

Esspiem, the lean man with the neatly trimmed moustache and beard, squeaked as the dark figure seemed to look at him.

Everybody slowly gathered around the darkness and a general atmosphere of thinking followed into a tight line around the Oracle.

At last one person dared to stare back at the Oracle. His piercing and unsettling smile offered little comfort to anybody who looked at him, but Eomer didn’t care much. He turned at Esspiem and whispered so that only Esspiem could hear, ”Coward”. Returning his gaze back at the Oracle he said rather loudly, ”I trust you for now. Long time ago, when the Dark Enemy still looked upon the land, my ancestors were slain by Vampires. They came at night, not noticing the watchman, who had fallen alseep in the stable. When they went to steal the horses, the watchman woke. He had enough time to yell for help, when his throat was slit. Only one man survived from that village. I will trust this ”oracle” if that means revenging the Vampires’s evil deeds!”

Durelin, the thin, girly looking young man laughed mockingly. ”You would trust anything that gave you protection, and maybe a less painful death. Well, have it your way. I don’t really care...
” Oracle! If you come too near, don’t think I won’t find your weak spot!”

”I agree that our only hope of surviving is to trust the Oracle and hope for the truth.” Celuien, a woman in a worn dress and just as used cloak spoke, ”Whoever is the Vampire here, look out. Twenty against three is not a wise fight, so I’d just fly away if I were you...”

The Oracle turned it’s head at Celuien and if there had been a face, it would have now smiled, ”Three have spoken, does the rest agree?. Think about it”.

People were looking at their feet and trying to come up with some thought.

After a short while the Oracle announced with a hint of amusement, ”Just like I thought, only three don’t trust me... No... a fourth one.” Its voice had the slightest hint of suprise, so slight that only the most careful ear could pick it.

Nobody had the courage to ask how the dark figure knew this and so it was decided.

”It is now decided! You shall live in any house you wish, there will be food on the table three times a day. A river is flowing in the far end of the city, you can bring fresh water yourself. Wood can be found for different uses in a stack in middle of the city. Feel free to explore the houses for any other equipment you need”.

”What about the Vampires?” Shasta, the man dressed in all possible shades of blue asked. Other people nodded.

The Oracle would have smiled again if there would have been a mouth to smile with, ”There seems to be a misunderstanding. I won’t kill anybody now. How would I know which of you are Vampires? It is your job to find out. Tell me your vote and every 24 hours I’ll come for the person, who has collected the most votes. You can see the remaining time from the giant clock in the middle square.
”Now, what should I do to this Vampire here…”

The Oracle turned back into darkness and disappeared. Enohl was still lying on the ground.

”He seemed to forget this kid, oh botheration”, said Rikae.

Enohl rose up and said, ”I think I will follow your movement after all”. It was the Oracle’s voice. Then he tripped on the ground. ”It is a matter of practise, in a day I will be using this body better than you are using your own”. Enohl, or the Oracle tried to stand, but without much hope.

To the amusement of the crowd, the first day started!


-~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------~~-


The living:

Gil-Galad (Gil)
The Saucepan Man (Esspiem/SPM)
Rikae
Boromir88 (Boro)
Nogrod
Eomer of the Rohirrim (Eomer)
Thinlómien (Lomiella/Lommy)
Brinniel
Legate of Amon Lanc (Legate)
Aganzir
Meneltarmacil (Menel)
Xyzzy
Roa_Aoife (Roa)
Macalaure (Mac)
Diamond18 (Di)
Shastanis Althreduin (Shasta)
Celuien (Cel)
Kitanna
Sleepy Ranger (Sleepy)
Durelin
Glirdan (Glirdy)
Rune Son of Bjarne (Rune)
The Sixth Wizard (Morgan/Sixth)

The dead:

-


DAY 1

You may now start talking. Staying in-character is not a rule but adviceable.

[Gil-Galad]

What maddness this has become... why must the oracle toy with us?... fine so we must play its game then we must if we want to survive... so basically keep our heads up about each other and be careful... then my friends we can see another sunrise!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Shasta shook his head, clearing it of the cobwebs that had accompanied his teleportation to this place.

"I think it's a good idea if we all stick together..." he said, turning about him to look for a place to set up housekeeping. Picking up a torch, he lit it from the one Diamond held and walked south through the crowd, brushing lightly past Nogrod and Rikae as he headed for one of the larger buildings.

The door opened with a creak as Shasta pushed it open. A shower of dust fell from the lintel; the building had lain in disuse for some time. A flare of fire flashed in the open air as Shasta's torch passed under a silky cobweb. The windows had no glass in them, and he edged through one of the larger rooms, careful of any broken glass on the floor; he was barefoot, after all.

Climbing a set of old, dusty stairs, he came upon a hallway with seven rooms. A cursory inspection of them revealed them all to be bedrooms, with the furniture covered with cloths, as if the owner of the house was just away on vacation and would return any time. Immediately claiming the westernmost room for himself, Shasta leaned out one of the broken windows, looking down on the crowd.

"There's room for six more of us up here," he shouted, his young voice carrying echoingly throughout the cavern.

[The Saucepan Man]

Well that’s just great. Everyone knows that the least developed characters are the ones to die first in these kinds of situation, particularly those portrayed in some negative light. Since I got scant description, no dialogue and have been portrayed as a coward, it looks like I’ll be the first one to be picked off here. :(

It’s not that I’m a coward, anyway. It’s just that, well I am rather disconcerted by our situation and that Oracle suddenly appearing like that was enough to give anyone the creeps. And if he’s so powerful, why doesn’t he just send us all back where we came from?

Anyway, to business. I may not have great skill in arms, but I hope that my sharp wits may be of assistance to us, or to those of us who are free of any Vampiric or other supernatural tendencies at least.

A few thoughts on how we should approach our unfortunate situation. As I see it, we have little choice the way things stand but to trust the Oracle’s words. And it seems from these that we must each Day nominate secretly who we wish to die and that the person with the most votes at the end of the Day will be taken by the Oracle. Our objective, it seems, is to root out the Vampires among us.

Unfortunately, as matters stand, we are denied a useful source of information which might assist us in this task – the known votes of each person. I therefore suggest that we all agree to state here honestly the name of the person we have voted for at or about the same time that we each cast our vote. Obviously, the words of three (possibly four) among us will be deceptive. But we will at least force them to commit themselves to a name and thereby, perhaps, put them under some pressure. More importantly, we will have as close as possible to a voting record as it is possible to get in the current circumstances, and this will hopefully be useful to us in the Days to come, and perhaps also of use to the Lynch Seer (did the Oracle tell us about the Lynch Seer? – well let’s assume he did. ;)).

As for the Lynch Seer, we should perhaps reserve discussion of this role until we see how it works out in practice. The only point I would make at this stage is an obvious one, but worth stating nevertheless. An innocent Lynch Seer should carefully think through the possible consequences before posting their riddle. Clearly, it would be preferable to avoid giving the Vampires a free kill.

As for this “fourth person” who may not trust the Oracle, my guess (ably assisted by the Game Rules ;)) is that they are only interested in preserving their own life. I would only note that their best interests are currently served by siding with the innocents.

Now, I’m off to look for anything which may be of use to us in this place. Only – um – I would rather not go alone. Would anyone like to accompany me? Actually, on second thoughts, would any five wish to accompany me …?

[Boromir88]

My only hope is I survive today...I mean it would be a shame to die on a special day like today. I don't care if the vampires decide to kill me after today, but it would be a shame to die today.

I was a bit nervous about the 'secretive vote' thing, as that takes away part of the ordinary innocents advantage. But the more I think about it, it may work to our advantage. Afterall, the vampires can't vote to save themselves, so we just have to worry about making the right decision (but that's easier said than done), and not have to worry about any vampires sticking their fangs in to save one of their partners.

[Macalaure]

Oh the werewolf has such teeth dear,
And he shows them pearly white.
Just a jack-knife has Macheath here*
but he keeps it out of sight.



*or rather he doesn't, cause he wasn't allowed to bring it. Bah!



I don't have much time and even less to say right now.

As Espiem said, we should simulate the voting process as good as we can. Not only will we have something close to a voting record, but there's even a chance that, missing the non-votes of the vampires, a different person will die than the one everybody expected. If it happens, it will be very helpful, I think.

Though it will be difficult to cope with the secret votes, keep in mind that the vampires aren't allowed to vote at all. They can't mess with the voting outcome like they usually can.

[Meneltarmacil]

Alright people. Listen up and listen good!

I've fought in a lot of wars, so I know how to deal with ruthless enemies. These vampires want us all dead, and that's just what we're gonna be if we don't kill them first! Don't just stand around wondering what happened! Don't give anyone the benefit of the doubt or whatever you call it; we've got a fight to win! The enemy doesn't care about your reputation or your life or how kind you are. All he wants to do is kill you. So you'd do well to show him no mercy.

[Rikae]

Rikae stepped through the doorway carefully, so as not to snare her long silver-gray cloak on the splinters...and broken nails...in the lintel. She went to the window and pushed back the yellowing curtain; a sunbeam pierced the dim interior; bewildered specks of dust danced erratically in the light.
She stood silently, then turned to Mac with a slight smile.
"Thou wenyst I knowe nott thy councell; Butt I warn the; I know itt, every deall."
She turned and addressed the whole room:
"I don't trust this Mac person. He speaks of a knife...then says he doesn't have one! I say we search him. ;)

And what is this talk of "less developed characters" from Esspiem? I never quite trust someone who starts off with a joke about his or her own vulnerability, combined with a long speech reiterating the situation at hand.

But I do agree; we should all state openly for whom we are voting. If the vampires' non-votes sway the results, it may even give us a trail to follow.
There is still hope..."

[Gil-Galad]

My only hope is I survive today...I mean it would be a shame to die on a special day like today. I don't care if the vampires decide to kill me after today, but it would be a shame to die today.

I was a bit nervous about the 'secretive vote' thing, as that takes away part of the ordinary innocents advantage. But the more I think about it, it may work to our advantage. Afterall, the vampires can't vote to save themselves, so we just have to worry about making the right decision (but that's easier said than done), and not have to worry about any vampires sticking their fangs in to save one of their partners.

i must agree on what master Boro here says... we have a greater chance on the vampires because they will not be able to help sacrifice one of their own to save themselves... i am glad at that fact.

And Rikae... accusing two people right off the bat are we? my what headstrong you are... but you should be careful... or doing the whole double bluff, instead of acting like a confused innocent, you could be pretending to be a vampire and lose the lead off of you early... i do not like that one bit... and now my hunch is moving on to you being very suspicous...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Having uncovered all the furniture in the rooms, Shasta paced restlessly down the hall. He felt helpless without at least some sort of weapon with which to defend himself... small blades were his forte, and where best to find such weapons than the kitchen? It had to be around here somewhere...

A quick search of the upper floor elicited the answer; a small set of back stairs, probably used by servants, that lead directly to the kitchen. Shasta entered, stifling a sneeze... it was much more dusty in here, for some reason. Looking for anything that could be considered a weapon, he came across the desiccated remains of what used to be a fine meal, halfway through preparation, on one of the counters. Wrinkling his nose in disgust, Shasta crossed the kitchen and began to search through the cabinets and drawers. His search was rewarded with the dull gleam of unpolished metal in the third drawer he checked.

Shasta lifted out a six-inch carving knife. Not a lot against the claws and fangs of a vampire, but better than nothing. He tucked it away in his sash, hilt protruding for easy drawing, and prowled on, searching for anything that might be of use later.... however, he was arrested in his search when he heard voices coming from the main hall.

Shasta entered the larger room from a smaller door, hidden behind an ornate tapestry, now despoiled by the ravages of time and the appetites of vermin. Padding on bare feet over to the small group, he smiled winningly, deftly sliding in between Rikae and Gil-Galad.

"Calm, you two... this early on, I doubt there's much of anything in the way of evidence to go on. There's no real point in accusing each other when there's no proof of guilt or innocence whatsoever."

[The Saucepan Man]

Alas, my circumstances dictate that I shall be unable to speak much more here until close to the end of the Day. I was rather hoping that more would have spoken ere the time came for me to take my leave.

Of those who have spoken already, I would comment as follows:

Gil-Galad said:

so basically keep our heads up about each other and be careful...

… which does not really provide us with much more than we could work out for ourselves, although he was the first to speak toDay. I suspect that this Gil-Galad will prove rather a conundrum, unless he deigns to speak more helpfully concerning his thoughts.

Shasta counselled that we “stick together”, which is not entirely helpful as we know that there are three among us who we cannot trust and one whose assistance is far from guaranteed. Having bid us all stick together, he then proceeded to go off on his own, in search of accommodation rather than items which might be of use.

Boro considers that it would be a shame if he were to die toDay, but does not care if he dies thereafter. Not sure what to make of this. And while I agree that it is beneficial to us that the Vampires (and Shade) are unable to vote, I am far less enthusiastic than he seems to be over the secret voting. Hence my proposal that we all state our votes.

Mac wishes he had his knife. I sympathise with him, as I appear to be without my trusty dagger. I am somewhat concerned that he seeks to compare himself to a Werewolf but, then again, we are dealing here with Vampires here, not Wolves. He supports my proposal on voting, which is encouraging (although I put it no higher than that).

Menel paints himself as a mighty warrior. Fine, but I think that quick wits rather than strength in arms will be more useful to us in our travail. He said:

A bit of in-character banter, but some of it's serious

Maybe I am missing something, but I failed to see anything "serious" in his post. And, while I admire his fighting spirit, I am not so sure that an inflexible refusal to “give anyone the benefit of the doubt” will help us. I do not propose placing my trust in anyone lightly, but I will be trying to weigh all the available evidence before reaching a conclusion on anyone, including points that might seem to point to their possible innocence.

Rikae is suspicious of Mac for talking of his knife. I don’t follow her reasoning here. An innocent would surely rather be armed in a situation such as this. She also dislikes my opening spiel. I, in turn, am suspicious of those who cast suspicion based on “in-character banter”, unless there is good reason to suspect that there might be something sinister in it. And I would venture to suggest that my “long speech” was an attempt to put forward some thoughts that I felt might be useful, particularly as my opportunity to contribute during the remainder of the Day is limited. Still, at least she too agrees with my proposal on voting.

Not a lot to go on, I fear. I trust that there will be much more to consider when I return to cast my vote. In the meantime, I would urge that everyone adopt my suggestion on voting.

Edit: crossed with Gil and Shasta.

[Rikae]

Rikae realises that the light coming through the window is not of the sun, but of a fire someone has already lit outside of the building...it's an awfully bright fire. :D

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate finished his work and now delightedly looked on the burning bonfire. The flames cracked cheerfully, as they consumed the large pile of wood the tall dark-haired man brought into the middle of the cave. The shadows around seemed to fade as the light grew.
"Whaddaya say," Legate turned to the rest of the people in the cave. "It's quite friendlier now, isn't it? The chairs burn pretty well. I suppose no one's gonna miss them, there's more than plenty of all the stuff around here. Now we'll better see each other's faces."

[The Saucepan Man]

While I will unfortunately soon be struck dumb until shortly before the deadline, I would note that I remain available to assist in searching this place. And should the door to any building be found to be locked and cannot be forced, I may be able to help, since I have no little skill in picking locks.

Esspiem gathers some rusty nails from the chairs being broken up to feed the fire, to assist in such endeavour should it be required.

[The Saucepan Man]

A parting thought.

While I acknowledge that we are encouraged to interact with this mysterious place in which we find ourselves, I will no doubt find myself becoming increasingly suspicious of those who spend more time telling us what they are doing than what they think. It seems to me to be a mighty convenient way of hiding “in the open”, as it were.

Discussion of ideas, thoughts, opinions, suspicions etc is the best way we have at the moment of trying to find a Vampire, so I hope that all will endeavour to contribute to as fully as they can to the debate. I know that sounds a bit rich coming from me, given my imminent enforced silence, but I am afraid that circumstances elsewhere dictate it. Should I survive to see another Day, I will endeavour to participate more fully.

[Rikae]

Rikae is suspicious of Mac for talking of his knife. I don’t follow her reasoning here. An innocent would surely rather be armed in a situation such as this. "I suppose..." Rikae threw her cloak behind her shoulders, revealing a low-cut black gown covered in glimmering burgundy embroidery. She sidled over to Mac with a smirk, and lifted her hand; something fell from the ceiling and she caught it: a knife, glinting in the firelight.
"Can't I at least frisk him?"
...

"What? I can levitate objects. It's part of my character." she rolled her eyes.
"I am suspicious of those who jump to conclusions as well. Sometimes accusations serve as bait for werewolves; those who are quick to make much of a joke or unfounded accusation are often evil; or so a great Werewolf-hunter once taught me."
Turning back to Mac, she handed him the knife.

EDIT: X'd with SPM. Suspect me then! I like this new kind of game, and I'm gonna have fun with it!

[Gil-Galad]

Gil looked on as the fire grew and illuminated the whole room. the outspects of old decaying buildings can be seen

"i wonder who lived in thsi forsaken place before we ended up here... not in all my travels fighting in the Great Spice War down south did i ever come upon anything like this..."

Gil peered into a building and saw an old table with a broken chair laying next too a corner of jars. Gil decided to grab whats left of the chair and submit it to the fire

"here you go Legate, some more firewood in case"


"we still have time to determine more, and hopefully hear from those of us among us that are quiet... then we can fully decide who seems suspicous, until then i guess we sit tight... something i hardly like to do."

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate walked a few steps away from the fireplace and looked around. He waved at Rikae peeking through the window. Then his sight turned to the dull, underground-moss-covered top wall of the cave. "I'm gonna miss the sight of sky", he said after a while. "How long are we gonna stay here? I'd like to go out as fast as possible. But I understand we cannot rush it. If we only knew who the three Vampires are, we might just give them to the Oracle and go home!"

This forced Legate to switch his thoughts from momentary concerns to the main problem of the village. "We are stranded here," he spoke slowly, "until the Oracle allows us to leave, right? Until we hand him three Vampires. And who is that funny fella the Oracle spoke about? The one with the shady nature? Whoever he is, he's not a Vampire, right? Oracle doesn't need his head to let us go. Espiem, was it you who said that he's the best staying with us now?
As to the voting. You and Boro I think it was who already spoke of it - I would see it as a big disadvantage. Why the Oracle wants us to vote in secret? If we all just spoke, it might be pretty clear who is hiding fangs, so to say. But we have to accept the situation as it is. And in this part, I agree with the proposal that we keep as honest as we can about our votes. It means not getting swayed in the discussion as much, I believe, though the Vampires still can leak their ideas here and there, they cannot actually realize them in the end, so if for example it comes to a contest when we have to choose between a vampire and a non-vampire to lynch, and a vampire says he'd vote for the non-vampire, we can still get the vampire lynched for there is an actual vote less (I hope it's clear). Of course, we cannot hope for situations like that every day. But only time proves if the compensation of not knowing who votes for whom by the Vampires' lack of votes is enough. But shortly said, I agree with the "honestness" idea. Actually, I don't even know why a villager would want to bluff..."

Legate looked back on the bonfire. "I must sort my thoughts, but now I'm going to get some more wood. It's better to have it prepared. Fortunately, it's plenty around here. Espiem, come with me, I might get some use of your skills if youn't just showing off - I think I saw plenty of wooden tables in a house over there, maybe it's some sort of store-house, but it's locked.
Hey! What about the rest of you over there! Can anyone of you cook? I can make fire pretty well even in the rain, but I'd like to get something warm, and I am a terrible cook if you ask me. I once baked a pancake so that it was not even black, but also wreathed in flames. Looked like that monster from the legends, Balrog, if you know it. Only it didn't have wings."

[Sleepy Ranger]

My, this seems to be a picky situation. It's rather bothersome that such a thing has arisen and meh, it seems nobody wants to get anywhere. Regardless, I'm afraid I would like to stay with myself for this day and reflect on the happenings. I'm afraid I shall keep to myself for this day.

[Boromir88]

Hey I have an idea! Vampires don't like garlic, right? So for our supper how about we all ask the cooks to put garlic in our meals...and the three people that don't eat their food must be the three vampires! That leaves the shade, but the shade would surely side with us as we would have the 3 vampires and the shade would be victorious as well. What do you all say about that?

Edit: x-ed with Sleepy and Legate is far too nice for my liking.

[Gil-Galad]

My, this seems to be a picky situation. It's rather bothersome that such a thing has arisen and meh, it seems nobody wants to get anywhere. Regardless, I'm afraid I would like to stay with myself for this day and reflect on the happenings. I'm afraid I shall keep to myself for this day.


wow... the last sentence mostly... i know i said that i will wait till everyone has a voice to state there opinions, but this is too much...

first of all, a vampire could easily say this and try to get away... i don't like this at all... is it a trick? perhaps it is...


just...wow... did not see such obviousness pop up like that... and with him saying he'll keep to himself this day, then we may not expect an reply if we lay accusations on him for this one post...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate, who was already walking away, stopped at Sleepy's words and turned around. "I don't want to push anyone," he said, "but I think it's better if everyone talks, because I have recent experience with one guy, who was named Xyzzy - ha, he had the same name as that guy over there - and he was hiding in a village just because he didn't go among the people at all. So I'd suggest to speak as much as possible, really, because it's not even worth anything to stay quiet - the village would be pretty dull then."

Legate turned back to Espiem and together they walked away towards the locked storehouse.

[Nogrod]

"Now what maddness is this?" Nogrod yelled as he dropped the pile of wood to the ground. "You're burning the furniture even though the Oracle said there is a stack of wood in the middle of the city - it's from where I brought these." He looked at Legate questioningly. "I hope they were from your room and not from mine... and anyhow, it promised us three meals a Day so I would rather that we concentrate on finding the vampires than trying to simulate a summer-camp feeling here."

"And where do you think you're going Mr. Sleepy? I will mark your name right now." Then he sat down and closed his eyes to think. He tried to put the first pieces of the puzzle together but there were so few pieces to use! This will take a moment, steady now...

EDIT: X'd with a few...

[Aganzir]

I agree with SPM's suggestion about voting. It's probably the best way to start with.
I'm quite eager to see how this kind of voting will work in practice, as there seems to be many possible results the voting can end in (see Legate's post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=519158&postcount=24) for an example).

The thing I hate in playing in character is that it's difficult to make out what people are actually saying in their posts. If no one minds, I will avoid playing in character. I'd rather write a short message and say something than write about everything I do without a real point.


it is beneficial to us that the Vampires (and Shade) are unable to vote
I thought the Shade was able to vote.

**

I am sorry for a short and rather useless post, but I don't have very much time (there's a paper I have to write and a test I have to study for). I won't be around before tomorrow.

[Rikae]

is it a trick? perhaps it is...Rikae turned to Gil with a sweet smile.
"I always think that everything could be a trick. Which is why I'm still alive.

Right now Gil and Esspien look the worst to me... but I'm too tired to think clearly. I think I'll go lie down for a while."

She circled the fire, and paused before a doorway which led to a bedroom.

"I'll see you in a couple of hours...at least."

[Nogrod]

Okay then. We should make our votes known openly. With this I agree. It looks like most of us do. I would also suggest that we mark the votes in a traditional manner of voting in the villages (with the double+ and bolding in a separate line - for easier reference as we are at least yet 23 of us).

This may give the Vampires some hard times as we can make an inference or two from the difference of the actual tally and the said voting if and when that shows up, not to talk of looking closely at some actions the Vampires may be forced to take.

But at least at the moment I'm not sharing the optimism of some. Even if the Vampires can't vote, they can influence the overall opinion around and steer the vote still - if they wish to do that in the first place. So we have very little solid evidence on anything here.

But as an encouragement I might recite the words of a long-gone wise man who once said: In the long run it's easy to speak the truth because you don't have to remember all the fabricated strings of the web of lies you are forced to create when you slip from the straight road of truth.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Rune had entered the room with out anybody noticing him, he had now been standing in the shades for a while listening and it filled him with a disire to leave again and so he did. . . . .



But being a bit confused by all the ridles and roles he ended up in the very shade he had just left. "Might as well stay, it might be fun" Rune thought to him self, but he had feeling that the others could read his thoughts. . .


EDIT: I cross posted with Noggy. . .who is saying something I was thinking about sugesting, so of course I think he speaks wisely.

[Brinniel]

Black, black, black.
Everything is black.
The air is foul,
And the walls close in
As Death slowly....

Urgh...I cannot think in these conditions! Too noisy, it's too noisy!

Oh bother...I could really use a smoke right about now...

I'm not so sure what to do about this situation. I'm not even sure how I got here... It seems everyone is so quick to accuse one another. Surely, that is the quickest way to get yourself killed.

Since the subject has been brought up, I have no problem sharing with everyone who I intend to vote for each Day. After all, I don't have anything to hide. Not that it'll really matter in the end, anyway. We're all going to die here, both Vampires and innocents, I'm sure of it.

Well, I'm off to go find a dark corner where I can brood. If anyone finds paper and a pen, let me know. Perhaps my thoughts will become clearer once I can write them down..

[Shastanis Althreduin]

OOC: Just to satisfy my inner roleplayer... is the fire inside or outside? I could have sworn it was in the middle of the abandoned city...

[Meneltarmacil]

*checks under carpet, finds trapdoor*

Hmm, what have we here? A secret compartment with a large chest inside...

*opens chest, pulls out a broadsword with scabbard and belt that was inside*

Ah, that's more like it! A little dull, but I can work on sharpening it. *fastens swordbelt*

Well, now, a little aggressive, was I? I mean no disrespect, but these vampires are not going to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, even if we do. Anything that looks suspicious should be considered as evidence, even if something can help explain it away. Not that we should condemn everyone for simple mistakes, but we should certainly not ignore strange happenings, no matter how "accidental" or "in-character" they may seem.

*sharpens sword with rock*

I too wonder about that Boromir88. Seems quite strange in his post; quite concerned about dying, which is understandable, but only toDay. I'll definitely be watching him.

As for Espiem, I agree with him that accusing people based on in-character bantering is suspicious. Rikae certainly does seem to be giving off warning signs in that respect.

[Rikae]

Rikae sticks her head out the window, hair in disarray, and says with great exasperation:

"When did I ever accuse someone based on in-character banter? If you want to see someone doing that, look at Esspiem and Gil-Galad! It's exactly the reason I don't trust them."

She ducked back inside and slammed the shutters with a deafening crash.

OOC:
The fire is outside the buildings of the city; but the city itself is inside a cave, or so I gather.

[The Sixth Wizard]

(As I forgot to make my character's name related to my BD's name, plz just call my character by his nickname Sixth instead.)

Anyways...

"When did I ever accuse someone based on in-character banter? If you want to see someone doing that, look at Esspiem and Gil-Galad! It's exactly the reason I don't trust them."

Already jumping to 'I don't trust...'? I think this is a bit early to be pointing and accusing.

So here we are stuck like rats in a village. And even better, now one of us has a SWORD. :eek:. I don't have much experience on a game like this so I can't really make a plausible suggestion right now, but maybe back up others. . .

Okay then. We should make our votes known openly. With this I agree. It looks like most of us do. I would also suggest that we mark the votes in a traditional manner of voting in the villages (with the double+ and bolding in a separate line - for easier reference as we are at least yet 23 of us).

Somehow I think this may be a bad idea. And it kinda defeats the purpose of votes not being shown. Vampires can still lie about a vote they might have made instead of actually make one.

Bye...

[Boromir88]

Well Menel and Sauce...like I said it today is a special day for me (tis my birthday). So I would particularly find it a shame if the vampires kill me tonight. But it really doesn't matter if they want to kill me any other night, that's their choice.

Now that is said this will likely be my last visit until the morning as I must be off at least day dreaming about what amazing celebration I should be receiving right now. Seeing as I'm stuck in this cave though, I guess I only have my imagination.

For some quick comments...I think Sauce's idea (regarding the votes) is a good one, no complaint from me, but still there will be at least 3 amongst us who will be lying.

Sauce, Gil, and Aganzir, don't really worry me right now. I like Gil's nice eye regarding Sleepy. So far Sauce and Aganzir look genuine to me.

Like I mentioned, Legate seems too nice and a little to quick to buddy up with our Sir Espiem.

I'm wondering about Brinniel too...I mean she comes in here kind of acts confused and lost like 'what the heck is going on.' This establishes her presense in this little 'game,' and it looks like she's playing up the 'confused' role. From my records, I have not had the pleasure of seeing Brinniel's ancestors yet in one of these situations, but her family has a few of these werewolf/vampire villages under her belt...this confused thing seems a bit fake if you ask me.

Also, a comment by Shastani is rather awkward:
"Calm, you two... this early on, I doubt there's much of anything in the way of evidence to go on. There's no real point in accusing each other when there's no proof of guilt or innocence whatsoever."
I think accusations reveal the character of a person, and I find accusations to be about as helpful as anything (besides blind luck) on Day 1. I find accusations to be a good thing, so I think it's awkward Shastani, you are telling us to not do it.

Some of my observations, make of them what you all will. Now I must be off and dreaming that I'm having a wonderful sweet bourbon salmon at an amazing 5-star restaurant with my mother and father. So, bye bye.

Edit: x-ed with The Sixth

[Durelin]

So here is where the fools have gathered? How lovely that there are so many of you in one place. You can be as stupid as you'd like, but I have a problem with people always adding their own crap to my pile.

In other words - stay away from me, and I won't mistake you for a Vampire.

Oh, yeah...you Vampires? Yeah, you. You listen. I bet you think you have it easy. And maybe you're right - you may not get any say in who we take out, but you know as well as I do that we innocents excel at slitting our own throats... *glances at Brinniel* or wrists.... But you know what? You're no different from them, even with your silly powers.

So go slaughter some goats and leave me the hell alone.

[Celuien]

I must say, being fashionably late is rather fun. :p

Before I made it here, I had been wandering about and just thinking things over. It seemed to me that the secret voting can complicate things for the village. Because there's no way to confirm the outcome of the vote until the following day even if, as has been suggested, we post our votes here on the village notice board. The vampires are, of course, lying since they can't vote. And there might be a couple of legitmate strategic reasons for a villager to post an undecided "vote" early. For example, it seems to me that since the vampires can't vote, they would have to be more vocal in trying to deflect village opinion, so that an early decoy vote might be thrown out to test the waters...much as retractable votes have been used strategically.

In any case, I'll be posting my votes here. It's still the only way the village has to coordinate strategy (at least down the road when there's more to go on), and I agree that some sort of voting record would be useful for analysis later, even if the votes that counted can't necessarily be confirmed.

And if anyone sees a frog hopping about, please let me know. I seem to have lost my poor Ribbits on my way here.

[Nogrod]

Nogrod had clearly dozed off but was awakened by the sound of Menel sharpening his newly found sword. Rikae's shouting from the window did the rest. Nogrod looked around him and tried to remember the thoughts that had occured to him while he had been taking his nap. Then he remembered.

Listen now. There is something strange in this triangle of Rikae, Gil and Spm. Here's a a small summary of it.

Now first Rikae threw a suspicion over Spm for starting with a self-defence. I think the point justified as esspiem's beginning toDay felt pretty awkward to my ears too. In fact Rikae didn't mention Spm reminding us of his sharp wits which could be of help to us... which I also found sounding a little too preventive even if I agree that his wits would serve us well if he's an innocent.

After that Gil came forwards and questioned Rikae for accusing two people right off the bat (other one being the in-character banter to Mac) and said his hunches were moving towardss seeing Rikae very suspicious.

Then Spm came back and defended himself pretty staunchly in regards to the unseverity of the suspicions that Rikae had brought forwards. He also countered Rikae's suspicion by not stating it openly, but by pointing that he himself suspects those who go with in-character banter based accusations.

Rikae defended herself pretty strongly (in feeling, not in length) by the "suspect me then but I like this new way of a game" -thing. A bit later she came back and said that Gil and esspiem looked the most suspicious to her. Adding though that she was too tired to think clearly.

And she reappeared again, shouting from the window denying to have accused anyone based on in-character bantering. Says she thinks it's Spm and Gil who are doing it and that's the reason she distrusts them.

---
So what is this? Quick defences for almost nonexistent suspicions, much ado about nothing or something more?


Rikae: Her defence feels genuine, but a little too tense regarding how little there has been against her... she also came quite close to lying - basically she did it. That's always pretty suspicious. She says: When did I ever accuse someone based on in-character banter?And these are her words too, from earlier on the Day:She turned and addressed the whole room: "I don't trust this Mac person. He speaks of a knife...then says he doesn't have one! I say we search him.It might all be counted as in character stuff as well, but it's a doubt casted anyway.

Her suspicion on Gil seems even stranger. Gil suspects her to be sure but retaliation isn't the way a smart villager would react - and Rikae surely is smart. She says: If you want to see someone doing that (accusing someone based on in character banter), look at Esspiem and Gil-Galad! It's exactly the reason I don't trust them. I must say I haven't seen Gil doing that. So why a lie again?

Spm: He speaks wisely as always. What else would you think he would do whatever role he had? But he's also a bit too quick to defend himself - quick enough to do it even before anyone had said anything on him...

Gil: Look at the man! He's a newborn and I like the way he plays right now. He might be a Vampire testing the waters to be sure. Rikae could be a nice lynch for the Vampires if she were innocent.

---
To end up. I'm reluctant to vote for Gil without a good cause as he seems to be getting the hang of the active play. I'm also reluctant to vote for Spm as he after all is an asset to us if he's innocent and we'll have time to see what he is later on (if the vampires don't kill him before that) as he stated quite openly not being able to take part toDay much more but the last hour. I wouldn't like to lose Rikae either, but would be very interested in hearing some explanations on why she downright lied to us...

EDIT: X'd with a few...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

After a long time of coming and going with new wood Legate finally left for the last time, appearing a few minutes later dragging a large wooden table across the stony cave floor. The sound of dragging echoed the whole cave. At one moment, the table jerked and with all its weight one blockfoot fell on Legate's toe. The man screamed and with all effort threw the table away from himself so it fell on one side.

Legate let it be and came near the fireplace where he sat down, took off one of his wooden sandals and started examining his foot.

"There's quite enough of wood, but it's better to be prepared. Who knows if the Oracle does not suddenly choose to leave us here without wood supply. I'd be also careful about food and if possible, leave something until the next meal. Assuming it does not become wormy."

Legate took his sandals back on and looked around. "I heard bits of what you spoke about here, I was also thinking a little bit. But it's still plenty time till Oracle's deadline and many of us haven't showed yet. Oh, first, Boro, Espiem is a good guy, at least in picking the locks, but don't think I wasn't checking him over my shoulder. He's in the storeroom now. But what I heard in your discussions here... now...

Okay then. We should make our votes known openly. With this I agree. It looks like most of us do. I would also suggest that we mark the votes in a traditional manner of voting in the villages (with the double+ and bolding in a separate line - for easier reference as we are at least yet 23 of us).

Somehow I think this may be a bad idea. And it kinda defeats the purpose of votes not being shown. Vampires can still lie about a vote they might have made instead of actually make one.
Six? I don't see why you think it isn't a good idea. Unless you want to bluff, which as I said I think an innocent villager has no need to, you shouldn't worry about it. After all, as best "voting list" as we can get is, I think, only for the good of the village. I don't see any disadvantage there.

Also, a comment by Shastani is rather awkward:
"Calm, you two... this early on, I doubt there's much of anything in the way of evidence to go on. There's no real point in accusing each other when there's no proof of guilt or innocence whatsoever."
I think accusations reveal the character of a person, and I find accusations to be about as helpful as anything (besides blind luck) on Day 1. I find accusations to be a good thing, so I think it's awkward Shastani, you are telling us to not do it.

Well I think we'd agree that without accusations we'd get nowhere. However, the ones who care the most on getting someone under any suspicion are the Vampires. So I find Shastani's comment rather in place, or at least I see it "unharmful". It's good in my opinion not to give too much into feelings or first sights and so on on the first day, because we don't know anything yet, basically. Of course accusing is needed, but not just headless.

For now, if I was to say that I am watching any of you folks more than the others, it would be probably ** Six for the comment above. It's quite a lot of us around here, I have to say, and many of us aren't saying much* so it's hard to conclude something... Otherwise I'll keep my eye on the places where it already "boiled" like Gil, Rikae, Espiem...

But now I am sorry, but I am quite dead from all the wood-carrying. I need to take a rest." With these words, Legate set out a bedroll he brought from one of the houses and laid near the bonfire. "Remember," he said yet, "keep feeding the fire. I wouldn't sleep longer than eight hours... but probably right after I wake up, I'm going to look around for some more useful things... so don't count on me until much... longer..."
With these words Legate fell into a deep and dreamless sleep.

*Apart from roleplay, which I like very much and of course do that as well, and of course it's just the first Day... but it'd be good to also try to keep at least some gaming info even in the roleplay posts...

**(EDIT: I originally wrote Sleepy there but I realized what he wrote on the Admin Thread.)

(cross-posted with Nogrod)

[Rikae]

but would be very interested in hearing some explanations on why she downright lied to us...
How have I lied? Do you mean my in-character comments about Mac? I was...flirting...with...him. Capisci?

[Nogrod]

How have I lied? Do you mean my in-character comments about Mac? I was...flirting...with...him. Capisci?Not so much that (as I said already) but with Gil. You accuse him of in-character accusations (alongside with Spm) and I don't think he has made any. On the contrary he has been pretty reasonable in his posting so far...

[Rikae]

I must say I haven't seen Gil doing that. So why a lie again?
Gil jumped on my comments about Mac; which were (I thought) blatently in-character/meta.

[Gil-Galad]

Gil jumped on my comments about Mac; which were (I thought) blatently in-character/meta.


i'm afraid it wasn't m'dear


but i must agree with Nogrod, it would hurt to lose Rikae if she was innocent mainly because she is a smart innocent and can defiantely contribute to us, but if she was the vampire or shade, then i guess we must be careful and determine exactly where she stands...

[Nogrod]

but i must agree with Nogrod, it would hurt to lose Rikae if she was innocent mainly because she is a smart innocent and can defiantely contribute to usThat is the curse of Day1's. As we have seen, those who have contributed the most toDay (by posting, thinking aloud, suspecting, taking stances, whatever one can call "substantial posting") are also those who have been talked about the most and thence suspected the most. I agree I have fallen into this myself as well although I have tried to have the brakes on just because of that.

Surely if we have a strong case for believing the village has an active Vampire who's trying to lead us astray let's lynch that one and be done away with her/him toDay. But without a good case I would never vote for an active villager on Day1. That's plain folly I think.

It's a bit too early to speak of the non-posters or the safe-posters as yet, but I might just say that I'm inclined to look at those people when the Day draws near the end. The quiet baddies are the most frightful and they become more so with every Day that passes. So on Day1 - if we don't have an actually good case - it's safest to vote for someone who has laid low and trust the probabilities. Later in the game we don't have the luxury of doing that anymore...

But let's see. I must also take rest now but I'll be back later toDay. In the worst case pretty late indeed.

[Kitanna]

I have been reading, but haven't really had a chance to read into what is being said, if you know what I mean. Thus far I have seen little to rise my alarm about anyone, but I do have some concerns about the voting.

Obviously it has been quite the topic already, but I'm a bit worried about this being a double-edged sword. Though the vampires have no vote and will clearly be lying about who they voted for (should SpM's plan be followed), I wonder if others will not lie as well. It seems unlikely, but unless I've read the rules wrong the vampires have a seer, a ranger, and a hunter on their side, correct? All of those folk receive votes, as does the shade. That's four votes that the voter could lie about to the village. Revealing our votes is a good idea, but I'm a bit hesitant given the amount of people who have the potential to lie about it and screw with the village.

I have to run, but I'll be back, hopefully with more solid ideas/facts.

[xyzzy]

Xyzzy walks toward the river. Pulling a sharp stone from the middle, he drys it on his shirt and walks over to the wood pile, whistling a merry tune. Grabbing a long piece of wood, he begins to sharpen an end of it. Over the time of about an hour, he begins to sharpen it. When he is satisfied with the end of the staff, he begins smoothing the rest of the stick. He walks over to the fire, shouting, "Got us a knife!" Seeing the strange looks he receives, he says, "Err, maybe it's a sword... or something, but... anyway, give me about a year and I could probably make a out of grass!"
[OOC]I roleplay soooo clichely...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Somehow I think this may be a bad idea. And it kinda defeats the purpose of votes not being shown. Vampires can still lie about a vote they might have made instead of actually make one. *Appears from the shades* ahh yes it defeats the idea, but it is up to us to decide which idea we like the most and want to make a "rule".

hmmm I forget can women and vampires vote here? if not and we are told the number of votes for each individual it would actually be possible to make a system that would be helpful of catching vampires. . .

*goes back into the shades*

EDIT: I forgot to disapear again. . .

[Celuien]

Kitanna: As I read the rules, I thought that each of the three vampires had one of those gifts - one vampire with the powers of a Seer, one with the powers of a Ranger and the last with the Hunter's skills.

The Shade is also interesting. There's absolutely no way to know which side that particular one will be siding with.

So that's three non-voters who are going to be lying and one enigma.

[Meneltarmacil]

Hmm, I must say that Rikae doesn't seem to be creating a lot of trust for me at the moment. She comes up with a meta-explanation and then tries to shift the blame onto Gil-Galad. Not that I'm inclined to think of Gil as absolutely innocent, but given the erratic style he usually uses, he makes a good scapegoat.

I'll probably vote for Rikae toDay.

[Diamond18]

Hey.

Well, I'm overwhelmed, but then I always am when I've got two pages worth of posts to read through. It all ends up blurring together and I can rarely form suspicions because I'm too busy trying just to get through it all. I'll read it over again. I will be voting within the next two hours and then I have to be going. I won't be back before day end.

Honestly, I don't really feel like announcing who I vote for. Make of that what you will.

[Rikae]

Rikae saunters out of the doorway, smoking a cigarette (hey, Rikae doesn't smoke! Shhh...).

hmmm I forget can women and vampires vote here? if not and we are told the number of votes for each individual it would actually be possible to make a system that would be helpful of catching vampires. . ."Do I detect a hint of misogyny?"

*goes back into the shades*"Do I detect a hint?

And what's that got to do with the price of a plane ticket to Germany?"
Rikae sat down on an overturned pillar beside the fire and poked idly at the embers with a stick.
"It seems I've stirred things up a bit. Which was exactly my intention."
She looked Nogrod in the eyes. Metallica songs ran through her mind.
"If you wish to lynch me, so be it. But I will have my say.
I tested the waters with a bantering accusation of Mac and a only slightly serious one of Esspien. Esspien responded with what appeared to me as excessive defensiveness, while Gil-Galad (and Menel) thought me suspicious for 'suspecting two people', when clearly, I was not serious in my suspicion of Mac" ...she paused and glanced at Mac with a smile and a :Merisu: .... "I've done what I can, at this early hour, to reveal the wolves. A lot of thanks I get for my troubles, too."
She tossed the cigarette butt into the flames, unfolded herself, stretched and wandered off into the darkness.

[Rikae]

OOC - rather, Menel thought me suspicious for suspecting Gil, though he admits Gil looks suspicious. This should send warning signals to anyone...but ...bah. Go ahead. Lynch me.
I am the weaver! :p

[Meneltarmacil]

Rikae, I didn't say that Gil looked particularly suspicious. He was simply an unknown on my list.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Do I detect a hint of misogyny?"
No, what you do detect is that I have knowledge about voting system in other places, but not here.

"Do I detect a hint?
Maybe you do and maybe you don't

[xyzzy]

Maybe you do and maybe you don't
Hmm, what are we supposed to take from that? You're sound like you want to look neutral - like a mysterious middleman, who would do very well to take the protection of the Vampires. After all, I'm sure they woludn't mind the additional power... and the vote.

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[Roa_Aoife]

I typed as I read, so forgive if I'm repeating what's been said or seem a bit disjointed.

I therefore suggest that we all agree to state here honestly the name of the person we have voted for at or about the same time that we each cast our vote.

If I'd have been here first, I would have said it myself. After all, the innocent have no need to lie. We wouldn't be able to use vote placement, but that's overrated anyways. Analysis, analysis, analysis....

I'll be making a chart of suspicions and "votes" as much as possible, if anyone's interested, by the way.

And oh, for heaven's sake people, yes, the new game is fun, but if this in characterness doesn't stop soon, we aren't getting anywhere. Please, please, focus, just a little.

Gil, your initial suspicion of Sleepy is faulty- he's not the only in character poster. I dare say those of us who aren't are the minority right now. I really hope you can come up with better and more sensical reasons.

But at least at the moment I'm not sharing the optimism of some. Even if the Vampires can't vote, they can influence the overall opinion around and steer the vote still - if they wish to do that in the first place. So we have very little solid evidence on anything here.

Are you ever optimistic on Day 1? We have all the solid evidence we need- in people's posts. You can't take back what you've said. And if you're lying, you will be caught in a contradiction.

Already jumping to 'I don't trust...'? I think this is a bit early to be pointing and accusing.

Either Sixth hasn't been reading, or he's spinning things. I don't trust Rikae any more than I trust anyone else here, but Sixth is pointing out something in Rikae that hs been done already by numerous others- yet he refrains from mentioning them. Not too mention, the way he points it out can be very easily construed as doing the same thing. also:

Somehow I think this may be a bad idea. And it kinda defeats the purpose of votes not being shown. Vampires can still lie about a vote they might have made instead of actually make one.

It would only hurt the vampires, because while they can lie, the results won't change. We can easily find discrepancies in the votes afterwards. Also, you may recall that I personally checked with Volo on the Admin thread before the roles were sent to see if this would be okay. He answered positively. Indeed, there's no reason not to go with this plan.

I wouldn't like to lose Rikae either, but would be very interested in hearing some explanations on why she downright lied to us...

Again, I'm not defending Rikae, but Nogrod is using some very strong language here. (With a little waffle thrown in at the end, as per usual ;) ) No, Rikae did not actually accuse anyone for in-character actions. What she did was banter with Mac, and contstruing it any other way is twisting the truth. So she did not lie about that. And Gil did accuse someone for in-characterness - Rikae and Sleepy. (You seemed to have missed that last part.

In fact, Nogrod, your whole case could be seen as an outright lie.

i'm afraid it wasn't m'dear

How was it not blatantly obvious. Seriously, explain how it could be taken as any other way.

Though the vampires have no vote and will clearly be lying about who they voted for (should SpM's plan be followed), I wonder if others will not lie as well. It seems unlikely, but unless I've read the rules wrong the vampires have a seer, a ranger, and a hunter on their side, correct? All of those folk receive votes, as does the shade. That's four votes that the voter could lie about to the village. Revealing our votes is a good idea, but I'm a bit hesitant given the amount of people who have the potential to lie about it and screw with the village.

Any villager who blatantly lies about thier vote is a traitor to the village. And while we won't know exactly who did the lying, it won't be hard to figure it out. Three people will definitely be lying. That's the whole point.

Right now, I am most suspicious of Gil and Nogrod. *experiences a sudden feeling of de ja vu* I was wrong last time, but this time- well, Nogrod's blatant lying about Rikae's "blatant lying" is worrisome, and Gil's seemingly deliberate misinterpertation of her in-character posts (I really don't see how you could mistake that for something serious) make me think the Vamps have found a scapegoat.

[Roa_Aoife]

Well, I'm off to bed- I'll be around a little bit before the end of the Day. Hopefully, more people will talk. (Come on, there's 23 of us! We should manage a bit more noise than this.)

[Boromir88]

However, the ones who care the most on getting someone under any suspicion are the Vampires.~Legate
I disagree it is just as (if not more) important to us to get the vampires under suspicion as it is for the vampires to get anyone besides themselves under suspicion. Of course meaningless accusations like 'I think Eomer is a vampire because he eats nails for breakfast' are unsubstantial and mean nothing. However, with accusations we get reactions, but most importantly we get interaction between everyone (which has been greatly lacking so far!)...and that can lead to clues to someone's true identity.

It's good in my opinion not to give too much into feelings or first sights and so on on the first day, because we don't know anything yet, basically.~Legate
I guess I would have to call this a difference of opinion between us. As I act primarily on 'feeling' (especially on Day 1!). A statement seems awkward to me, I get a bad 'feeling' about someone's posting, I go after 'em.

One thing I've been meaning to try out lately is asking questions...I think we all need to ask more questions to people, judge their responses see if the person appears genuine or whether their just pulling something out of their arse.

So, now onto this making our votes known...and such. It is definitely the best thing we can ask for. Yes, we know people will be lying, but that's the whole point! We can perhaps spot when someone is lying.

For example, if I'm not mistaken the lynch seer is given the number of votes that the person who will be lynched received. So, let's say if the person who gets lynched received 6 votes, yet when we go back to the previous day and tally up all of them, there were 7 votes for that person...well we know someone was lying and couldn't vote, therefor someone in that group must be a vampire. Which can be a huge benefit to us as we now know someone in that group couldn't vote and therefor is a vampire.

Also, as Roa said, there is absolutely no reason any innocent should lie about their vote. If they do they are exactly what Roa said...a traitor and are only helping the vampires. If this making our votes known is to work, all innocents must be completely honest, as we already have at least 3 who won't be.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Having listened quietly to the accusations and discussions flying about, Shasta felt it was time to put in his say. He tossed a rock into the fire to gain everyone's attention.

"First of all, I'd like to address the following."

Originally Posted by Boromir88
Also, a comment by Shastani is rather awkward:

"Calm, you two... this early on, I doubt there's much of anything in the way of evidence to go on. There's no real point in accusing each other when there's no proof of guilt or innocence whatsoever."

I think accusations reveal the character of a person, and I find accusations to be about as helpful as anything (besides blind luck) on Day 1. I find accusations to be a good thing, so I think it's awkward Shastani, you are telling us to not do it.

"I was merely stating that without any evidence, an execution would be a shot in the dark. We have a chance of either executing an important innocent, such as someone who could tell who the vampires are, or protect from them, or having them reveal their role in order NOT to be executed, and then becoming a prime target for the vampires. The vampires already have a free kill tonight, and the chances of hitting a vampire during a first-day execution is miniscule, to say the least. I see no reason to do the vampires' work for them by killing off an innocent when we have nearly no chance of hitting a vampire."

He looked meditatively into the fire, then went on.

"Also, Gil seems suspicious to me... Mostly, it's his blatant misreading of Rikae's bantering accusations. It was perfectly obvious to me, at least, that it was only a joke... He does seem, at first glance, to be trying to snare a scapegoat."

[Brinniel]

Okay, I've had enough brooding. I'm back.

I must admit with 23 of us, it is a bit overwhelming. There are so many different possibilities on who could be the Vampires. For now, the only one who sticks out to me is Rikae. Her accusing behaviour is most disconcerting, and I find that she is rather...what's the word...jumpy, I guess is how I could describe it. Unless someone else suddenly turns suspicious to me, she remains my most likely voting candidate.

I don't understand why there is some controversy on whether to publicly announce our intended votes or not. An innocent should have no problem with sharing his or her vote. Yes, while an error in judgement could possibly be harmful another Day, not sharing your vote at all I think would result in worse consequences. Having control of the votes is the biggest power us innocents have, and right now, that is a great advantage to have as we clearly outnumber the Vampires. The only way we can be most effective in capturing our baddies is if all of us innocents remain honest and share our votes with one another.

Well, it's been a long day. I need some sleep before making my decision...

[The Sixth Wizard]

Six? I don't see why you think it isn't a good idea. Unless you want to bluff, which as I said I think an innocent villager has no need to, you shouldn't worry about it. After all, as best "voting list" as we can get is, I think, only for the good of the village. I don't see any disadvantage there.

I think accusations reveal the character of a person, and I find accusations to be about as helpful as anything (besides blind luck) on Day 1. I find accusations to be a good thing, so I think it's awkward Shastani, you are telling us to not do it.

I don't have much experience in these games, but is this what players often do on Day 1? It happened in the Unknown Enemies. . . I suppose it is a good way to get the game going, and mystery among the villagers might help the Vampires.

So here is where the fools have gathered? How lovely that there are so many of you in one place. You can be as stupid as you'd like, but I have a problem with people always adding their own crap to my pile.

In other words - stay away from me, and I won't mistake you for a Vampire.

Oh, yeah...you Vampires? Yeah, you. You listen. I bet you think you have it easy. And maybe you're right - you may not get any say in who we take out, but you know as well as I do that we innocents excel at slitting our own throats... *glances at Brinniel* or wrists.... But you know what? You're no different from them, even with your silly powers.

So go slaughter some goats and leave me the hell alone.


Was this hostility part of your character, or did you actually MEAN it? :eek:

[The Sixth Wizard]

[About Gil] but given the erratic style he usually uses, he makes a good scapegoat.

This will sound like I'm defending Gil, but last game he accused me and others relatively shakily and it turned out he was innocent. It is quite hard with him to tell if he is innocent or what.

I also suspected Rikae, even before reading the posts saying you guys do too. She just seemed the most erratic so far, and apparently

she is a smart innocent

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Wonderful, isn't it? All this fear, paranoia and loathing. It is the the sweetest entertainment. Reminds me of the old poetry, it does... :smokin:

But if we want to get down to business:

Behaviour. Patterns. Tone. Utilise them.

Roa and Boro have the right idea and I think them the wisest among us at the moment.

To make something else happen:

Kitanna is a vampire. I am very suspicious of what she has done.

(By the way, are the numbers of votes given in the next day? Because that would surely give us a huge advantage.)

[Thinlómien]

Lomiella emerged from a more distant part of the cave, combing her long, black hair with her fingers and yawning. "I needed sleep after such horrible events... I hope you excuse me." She flashed her eyelashes and settled among the others, straightening her yellow skirt.

I, too, agree with SPM's suggestion. It will put nice pressure on the baddies and will give us something to go on. It's very sensible. Then we just have to take care that we remember to both vote here and send the vote to our mod - (I know I could make the mistake and forget actual voting since I'd already have voted once. :rolleyes: :p) We must be careful not to make these mistakes since that might cause fatal errors in the data.

I don't see what this mess about Rikae is. I think she seems pretty normal and bantery. Noggie and Gil seem to be allied against her, and I find it very weird.

Lomiella gets up and casts a pretty smile - with fluttery eyelashes of course - to all the other people gathered around the fire. "Ill take a little stroll around the cave and think more about things. I'll be back."

[Macalaure]

Mac has a knife again now. He examines it gleefully and then hides it with and evil smirk on his face.


I don't trust this Mac person. He speaks of a knife...then says he doesn't have one! I say we search him. And I bet you want to be the one who does, don't you? :p


Can't I at least frisk him? Knew it! :D


Anyway, please, don't be suspicious of Rikae for flirting with me, I'd make me feel guilty. :)
The thing that does make me suspicious of her, however, is that she does little else than flirting, in-character things, self-defense and a flimsy case against Nogrod and Gil.


For example, if I'm not mistaken the lynch seer is given the number of votes that the person who will be lynched received. So, let's say if the person who gets lynched received 6 votes, yet when we go back to the previous day and tally up all of them, there were 7 votes for that person...well we know someone was lying and couldn't vote, therefor someone in that group must be a vampire. Which can be a huge benefit to us as we now know someone in that group couldn't vote and therefor is a vampire. If we do get the exact number, it will be even better if the figures are correct! I mean, that would be a lot of known innocents all at once, wouldn't it? (though the semi-innocent shade might be among them)


So far, there has been a lot in-character stuff. It's all nice and funny, sure, but come on...

A lot of vague and baseless accusations there have been, too, but that's how Day Ones are, and better have them vague and baseless than have no accusations at all. Of course the chances to catch a vampire toDay are slim and those to kill and innocent are high, but that's how it works. It's a slim chance, but it's the only one we have.


Talking of vague and baseless accusations, here are mine now:


Boro has already said it, and I agree: Legate is being too nice for my liking, too.


Since the subject has been brought up, I have no problem sharing with everyone who I intend to vote for each Day. After all, I don't have anything to hide. Not that it'll really matter in the end, anyway.It seems like everybody (but Six) is approving the idea, but this approval here somehow sounds like it has been said with a little reluctance. I'm probably interpreting too much, but it looks to me like she's agreeing and sowing a seed of doubt at the same time.
In her later post Brinn takes a clearer stance, but still.

I'm also perceiving some strange karma from Meneltarmacil.

[Rikae]

Rikae emerges from the shadows, carrying a large pillow. She places it on top of the broken pillar and sits down again.

"I think Eomer has a good point about Kitanna. I can't quite believe she would honestly make the mistake of thinking the gifteds were on the vampires' side. I would be interested in hearing more from her.
And as for you, Mac, I ought to suspect you for claiming I made a case against Nogrod when I did not.

As I recall, I said I didn't trust Esspiem and Gil. In retrospect, though, since Esspiem had self-defense to think of and Gil is almost always suspicious; Menel's reaction worried me more. I admit, I made a mistake in my response, translating "accusing people based on in-character bantering is suspicious" to "Gil is suspicious" in my mind, simply because that's what Gil did when he called me "very suspicious" for "suspecting two people" (Mac and Esspiem.)
As for Espiem, I agree with him that accusing people based on in-character bantering is suspicious. Rikae certainly does seem to be giving off warning signs in that respect.I might seem to be harping on this too much, but I didn't respond for self-defense so much as to point out that Menel is not making sense here.

[Macalaure]

And as for you, Mac, I ought to suspect you for claiming I made a case against Nogrod when I did not.Ack! Gil and Espiem, I meant. :rolleyes:

[Celuien]

I have cast my vote for Kitanna. On reflection, it was rather odd to think that the vampire-seer/ranger/hunter were additional roles.

And now, I must be off to wander the streets of the village.

[Meneltarmacil]

Well, I just sent in my vote for Rikae, and that should be all for toDay.

[The Sixth Wizard]

I've just had a last-minute change of heart. I was going to vote for Rikae, but reading over the posts, decided it better if we left her alone for a while. I am, however, afraid that Day 2 we might forget about her comments here.

The person I have decided to vote for is Gil. As I said, for me at least he is very indescernable, and it is Day 1 after all. We may as well have a shot in the dark than take out a potentially valuable innocent like Nogrod or Rikae.

Hell, I don't know how to act on Day 1. Last game we got a wolf Day 1 and it was wierd after that.

Sorry guys but that was my last post for the Day. Looking forward to the bloodbath that will follow with so many gifteds and vampires. Back in the next 10 hours or so.

[Macalaure]

I think that, for clarity's sake, we all should vote like we normally do. So in order to find these two again later:

Celuien: ++Kitanna

Menel: ++Rikae

[Thinlómien]

I understood that she was referring to the vampire-gifteds not to some additional gifteds that are on the vampire's side, yet everybody else seems to be interpreting her words the other way... Is there some problem with my interpretation (as my English is, regrettably, slightly faulty) or are some people jumping on weird conclusions? :confused:

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Bandwagon?

[Thinlómien]

Bandwagon?Bandwagon what? :confused:

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Rikae mentioned that I had 'a good point about Kitanna.' But I didn't. I didn't have a single point about Kitanna. All I said was that she's a vampire and then, from nowhere, Rikae and Celuien are on her case. You, Lommy, can't understand their reasoning, and neither can I.

[Rikae]

In answer to Lommy:
Kitanna said (bolding mine)
unless I've read the rules wrong the vampires have a seer, a ranger, and a hunter on their side, correct? All of those folk receive votes, as does the shade. That's four votes that the voter could lie about to the village. .
So clearly, sha's saying that these gifteds, while on the side of the vampires, have votes (which means they are not vampires themselves).
I still don't know whether to chalk it up to misunderstanding, though.

[Nogrod]

I understood that she was referring to the vampire-gifteds not to some additional gifteds that are on the vampire's side, yet everybody else seems to be interpreting her words the other way... Is there some problem with my interpretation (as my English is, regrettably, slightly faulty) or are some people jumping on weird conclusions? :confused:Anyway it might be, it's pretty weird to vote for someone ie. suspect her of being a vampire because she is puzzled and possibly wrong about the roles... Who if not the vampires know the roles pretty well? Kitanna might bluff to be sure, but that's quite a far-fetched suspicion on Day1 and quite a sham reason to vote. So this would more likely make me consider suspecting Celuien from being a possible safe-voter vampire (or in that case, making an appearance of a vote that had something like a reason attached to it).

That just as a first impression. More to follow after a while.

EDIT: X'd with Eomer and Rikae

[Rikae]

Rikae mentioned that I had 'a good point about Kitanna.' But I didn't. I didn't have a single point about Kitanna. All I said was that she's a vampire and then, from nowhere, Rikae and Celuien are on her case. You, Lommy, can't understand their reasoning, and neither can I.I should have said Celuien had a good point. :rolleyes:

EDIT: X'd with Nogrod. To me it does look like a possible bluff. What would a vampire like more than to cast doubt on the validity of the information we'll recieve from the numbers of votes? But I'm not going to jump to conclusions; I'd like to hear Kitanna's explanation.

[Thinlómien]

So clearly, sha's saying that these gifteds, while on the side of the vampires, have votes (which means they are not vampires themselves).I thought that by receiving votes Kitanna meant that people would vote them, not that they would vote somebody... This is quite confusing.

[Rikae]

No, it couldn't be. She said they all recieve votes, as does the shade, and that makes four votes that could be lies...
Innocents wouldn't be lying about voting for gifteds, because they wouldn't know the person was gifted until after "you have lynched your hunter", or the like, pops up in the narration. :rolleyes:

[Boromir88]

I, like Eomer, would also like to receive clarification about the lynch seer getting the number of votes for the person who will be lynched...I remember this being discussed, but am not sure on any final conclusions that were made.

Is there some problem with my interpretation (as my English is, regrettably, slightly faulty) or are some people jumping on weird conclusions?~Thinlo
I think the things people have jumped on were this:
Though the vampires have no vote and will clearly be lying about who they voted for
Here she says the vampires will have no vote (which is true). Then:
It seems unlikely, but unless I've read the rules wrong the vampires have a seer, a ranger, and a hunter on their side, correct? All of those folk receive votes, as does the shade.
It looks like she was saying you have the vampires (who can't vote), but the vampires also have a seer, ranger, and hunter on their side that can vote. Which is awkward and untrue.

Now, I don't take it to mean what Celuien said and that our Seer, Ranger, and Hunter are actually working for the vampires. But from the wording it looks like Kitanna said there are 3 vampires, but they also have a seer, ranger, and hunter on their side. That is what I'm assuming people have found awkward about it, as that is completely untrue. So, either Kitanna honestly got confused by all the roles, or she's playing up the part of the confused vampire. The vampire that looks like they are trying to help and participate, but is really just spewing out a bunch of confusion. So, Kitanna, which one is it?

Edit: x-ed with Rikae

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

"Well, I don't have much time now," said Legate after returning from a long walk he took after he awoke. "I got to leave in about quarter an hour, and probably won't come back. Only to what's debated here now..."

Obviously it has been quite the topic already, but I'm a bit worried about this being a double-edged sword. Though the vampires have no vote and will clearly be lying about who they voted for (should SpM's plan be followed), I wonder if others will not lie as well. It seems unlikely, but unless I've read the rules wrong the vampires have a seer, a ranger, and a hunter on their side, correct? All of those folk receive votes, as does the shade. That's four votes that the voter could lie about to the village. Revealing our votes is a good idea, but I'm a bit hesitant given the amount of people who have the potential to lie about it and screw with the village.
Well, actually when I saw that comment, I didn't know what it is supposed to mean. Please help me, if you could, to decipher it:
Kitanna, based on how she read the rules, thinks:
-That the vampires have S&R&H
-I actually thought RECEIVE votes meant they can, you know, be voted for. But if I understood you correctly, "receive" here stands here for "are given their own paper to throw into the ballot box"
-So four people can vote and lie at the same time.

I don't understand why to vote for her based on this. I wouldn't say this, even if it is as you say, raises any alarm. It might or might not be a mistake, but if it was intentional, why would she want to say that? I don't get it.

Ten minutes... then I'm leaving, sorry..."

EDIT: x-ed since Nogrod

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Hmm, what are we supposed to take from that? You're sound like you want to look neutral - like a mysterious middleman, who would do very well to take the protection of the Vampires. After all, I'm sure they woludn't mind the additional power... and the vote. Actually I was trying to sound like a crazy Scottish person. . .

Anyway, please, don't be suspicious of Rikae for flirting with me, I'd make me feel guilty. Don't worry Mac, you do not kill the girl that does the flirting, you kill the person she is flirting with instead of you.

On a more seriouse note, my problem with this thing is that it is hard to get an overwiev of things with so many people here. . . Even when you have been lurking in the dark as I. What I do get is a few people that seems inoccent and non that stands out as evil doers. So genneral confusion would be the best way to describe my state of mind.

EDIT: Cross posted with Legate

[Gil-Galad]

hmmm... is it me or has people been rather confused lately... especially Rikae, where she has been mixing people up...

and yes everything is a trick, there is no magic, only tricks. i must think for a couple minutes to decide who i am going to vote for...

[Nogrod]

So, either Kitanna honestly got confused by all the roles, or she's playing up the part of the confused vampire.Exactly. And thence I think all this discussion about "what did Kitanna really say" is somewhat off-topic and misleading. It's either/or. And as a reason for even a Day1 vote I see it as a bad one. A similar case could be made of anyone around here: "a vampire might have acted like X did".

No, I don't say that Kitanna is innocent. I'm just trying to fight against that normal "feel-good"-factor which relieves villagers from making tough decisions when someone brings forwards a case-looking thing that everyone can then act on by agreeing.

So as Boro said earlier. More accusations, more suspicions - and what's the most important - reactions to them. That's what we need to have an idea about who's who. More importantly in this game where the voting record will be partly faulty and incomplete...

I try to do my part of it next.

ED. X'd from Legate onwards

[Thinlómien]

Well, well...

Gil-Galad - I find it funny that he made a remark about people who have not spoken yet, remembering his previous style... I don't like his edginess at all.

The Saucepan Man - Has been reasonable this far and my gut-feeling does not alarm me. Anyway, knowing how shrewd this pan-man is, I think I need more time to condemn him in one way or another. (Not that I was sure about anyone at this phase anyway... :rolleyes: )

Rikae - She seems quite normal and her in-caharcter things are understandable. Anyway, her accusations are quite flimsy, but then again, it was only early Day1. And then there's the Kitanna-confusion... I don't know what to think of her.

Boromir88 - He seems reasonable and has not been sending the infamous "bad vibes" this far... If you ask me he can be granted his "birthday present" of not getting lynched toDay. :)

Nogrod - Seems innocent enough, yes, yet I find his case against Rikae and his notions on Rikae-Gil-SPM triangle a bit weird... I mean, it's not uncharacteristic of him, but a bit rash...

Eomer of the Rohirrim - For a change, he seems innocent to me. His Kitanna-experiment is most intriguing. I'm not worried about him right now.

Brinniel - From her little activity toDay it's difficult to perceive anything, but the few things she has said do not worry me.

Legate of Amon Lanc - Well, I like his IC-posts and I like the fact he's both making those and contributing to the game. I would not like to get rid of his reasonability today, unless he give me a good reason to suspect him, which he hasn't done this far.

Aganzir - Not much to say about her, good or bad.

Meneltarmacil - I can't form a clear picture of him. He makes me slightly uneasy.

Xyzzy - Seems to be familiarly in-character and absent... I hope he'll be back with more substance!

Roa_Aoife - While I see she wants to banter with Nogrod, I don't see why she accuses him both for too strong words (ie quick judging?) and waffling.

Macalaure - He lacks the edginess and aggressiveness which has caused me to suspect him at times in past (err... last time when I was a wolf and he was the seer... :p) but right now he's not worrying me - on the contrary, he seems pretty innocent this far.

Diamond18 - She's more serious and absent than usually, but might be because of time problems etc. Does not seem particularly innocent...

Shastanis Althreduin - although he writes nicely I'd like to see more non-in-character things from him... this far he's only played in-character and defended himself... not a very good sign

Celuien - I don't get her Kitanna-"case". I think I need to go through her posts once more to form a clearer picture of her.

Kitanna - Well the whole Kitanna-thing needs to be cleared by herself.

Sleepy Ranger - Well, you can't say much about him.

Durelin - Very durelistic. That does not tell much, though.

Glirdan - Absent...

Rune Son of Bjarne - He's mysterious, for one, which makes me think he's an attention-seeking ordo. His insubstantiality (sp?) however makes me think he could be a vampire as well. A difficult one.

The Sixth Wizard - He seems very honest and his denial of SPM's suggestion speaks for his innocence in my opinion.

edit: xed with Rune, Gil and Noggie

[Gil-Galad]

Alright, after reading Boro's post about kitanna, who could be a vampire playing a confused innocent, i am torn between rikae and kitanna... but i have heard more from rikae then kitanna so...


i have sent in my vote for Rikae

Xed with Lommy

[Roa_Aoife]

If we do get the exact number, it will be even better if the figures are correct! I mean, that would be a lot of known innocents all at once, wouldn't it? (though the semi-innocent shade might be among them)

Well, sort of, but that depends on whether or not you think the lynch seer is innocent, doesn't it? Don't forget that the vampires can be lynch seers, too. Wouldn't be just perfect if the Vampire came out and claimed that the number of votes added up, thus making one of his allies a known innocent? While this would be useful, and I encourage any innocent who is the lynch seer to come forward with the count, I would advise against taking their word at face value.


"I think Eomer has a good point about Kitanna. I can't quite believe she would honestly make the mistake of thinking the gifteds were on the vampires' side. I would be interested in hearing more from her.

While Nogrod's and Gil's case were almost pure fabrication, this, Eomer, is what you were looking for, I believe. Rikae, that's how we caught Glirdan last game. How could you fall for it now?

I have cast my vote for Kitanna. On reflection, it was rather odd to think that the vampire-seer/ranger/hunter were additional roles.

That's the flimsiest case yet. And you seem to have fallen into the same trap as Rikae. Also, you seemingly agreed to the plan of posting our votes, while discrediting it in the same post.

Rikae mentioned that I had 'a good point about Kitanna.' But I didn't. I didn't have a single point about Kitanna. All I said was that she's a vampire and then, from nowhere, Rikae and Celuien are on her case. You, Lommy, can't understand their reasoning, and neither can I.

Ah, I was right.

And people, in all this talk of what Kitanna said, we are missing the point that two people jumped on an weakly expressed suspicion.

EDIT: Crossed with Lommy and Gil

[Rikae]

I'll lay my cards on the table..I'm more leaning towards giving Kitanna the benefit of the doubt. It's obviously easy to get mixed up here. I'm more inclined to vote for Menel - not a spite vote, mind you, but because he's doing with me what I did as a wolf in Nogrod's game; picking someone vocal and safe to target with apparently, little thought on his part.

[Thinlómien]

hmmm... is it me or has people been rather confused lately... especially Rikae, where she has been mixing people up...Well it seems pretty many people are confused, which I don't wonder at all, since I'm myself slightly confused about some things...

Roa, you're a láthspell for sure, pointing out all the bad things people (read: I) haven't realised or haven't been thinking about yet... :p I must say that last post of Roa's made me more comfortable about her.

edit: xed with Rikae

[Gil-Galad]

Remember, it is only day One, and none of us have that much to go off of, so we have to use what is here...


xed with lommy

[Nogrod]

And people, in all this talk of what Kitanna said, we are missing the point that two people jumped on an weakly expressed suspicion.Just my words... although I'm not sure how strongly Rikae "jumped on it" but anyhow she went on with them and has been interestingly quiet after she crossposted with my suspicions of the case against Kitanna (which was mainly pointed towards Celuien's vote).

EDIT: X'd with Rikae onwards... so forget what I said about Rikae being interestingly quiet... :rolleyes:

[Rikae]

While Nogrod's and Gil's case were almost pure fabrication, this, Eomer, is what you were looking for, I believe. Rikae, that's how we caught Glirdan last game. How could you fall for it now?
Clearly, I wouldn't and didn't. :p
I looked at her post to see what she was "doing", and indeed, it looked fishy. If we had a cobbler, I'd say it looked cobblerish, but I don't think we do.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate was quickly packing his things. "I'm going to explore some further parts of the cave. I already stopped by at the Oracle and gave him my vote. Since you have spoken all very much when I slept and I didn't have chance to think of everything of it seriously to think any of you more guilty than the other, I had to stick with my primary suspicion, which was Six." Legate threw the last of his newly-acquired possessions into the bag and waved. "Don't worry, I'll be back. Just don't kill each other when I'm away. See you tomorrow." With these words, he disappeared to the darkness far from the fire's light.

[Boromir88]

I wouldn't say this, even if it is as you say, raises any alarm. It might or might not be a mistake, but if it was intentional, why would she want to say that?~Legate
Well if she's innocent she wants clarification. If she's a vampire it's I think what Nogrod said:
Exactly. And thence I think all this discussion about "what did Kitanna really say" is somewhat off-topic and misleading.
Then it is to get us off topic and mislead.

Which leads me to this next:
So as Boro said earlier. More accusations, more suspicions -
It's time to stop diddy-daddling and let's get some names out here.

Unfortunately, there hasn't been really too much that strikes me too vampirish, besides Eomer's nice eye regarding Rikae and Celuien jumping on his 'suspicion' of Kitanna. Of those two I would go for Celuien. Usually I don't suspect those who vote amongst the first. However, this time it's different. As these votes in the thread don't mean squat to the vampires, so they will post their fake vote in here whenever they feel like it.

And perhaps the vampires would like to post their 'votes' in here early on to try to get someone under some suspicion and get a bandwagon going. I wonder if that's what happened here. Eomer announces that he suspects Kitanna, Rikae jumps on it, but even more suspicious Celuien quickly announces her vote for Kitanna.

Eomer may have just set a brilliant trap, so for now I trust him.

Roa has been a cool guiding force trying to keep us on task, so like Eomer, for now I trust her.

Everyone else is kind of in the mix. And besides Rikae or Celuien, I am nervous about Legate. Not only has Legate been playing a bit too nice, but I haven't seen anything from Legate as far as suspects. Legate has solely been defending people and saying 'that doesn't raise an alarm and if it does it's not enough to lynch someone.' This I find quite worrying as:

1. I find not listing names and throwing people under the light to only be a detriment to the village...we need to get more suspects here, (not just Rikae and Kitanna). Too many suspects helps the vampires, but so does too few!

2. Of course on Day 1 we are not going to find any sort of convincing evidence for lynching someone...it's a crap shoot, we take a little nit-picky thing someone spotted and roll with it. That's how Day 1 works, so all this cautioning of let's not lynch someone because there is not enough 'evidence' to lynch someone does us no good. As there is no evidence to start out with, and we go with what we got.

x-ed with many many many people

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I precent you with my choice of the day: Menel :eek: :eek: :eek:

He is kind of an easy target, but hey what can you expect on day one. It is either him or complete randomness. . .

Anyways he had his firs IC post which as saucie said did not contain much substanse and ever since he had only done one liners.

I am of course going to use the classical "flying under the radar" argumentation, but I think it applies very well in this case. Saying nothing of substance, but posting frequently enough not to be marked downs as "not contributing". OK if it was to be perfect he would have to make a bit longer posts, but it always differs depending on the person.

ok that was my reasoning for wanting to vote for him. . .and now for something completely different.

He mentioned that we should not be giving anyone the benifit of the doubt and Saucie thought this a bad idea, I think I will actually defend Menel a bit on that part. Too often have people been given the benifit of the doubt and turned out to be wolves, in some cases these persons actually won the game, I my self have been guilty on doing this. Especially 2 wolwish victories comes to mind. The one of Nilp not too long ago and the one of Malkatoj quite some time ago.

I think there is actually wisdome in not giving people like Sleepy too much leash.

any who I will be voting for Menel.

EDIT: Cross posted with a whole lot of people. . .I cannot say exactly how many as I forgot what the last thing I read was.

[Rikae]

I just sent in my vote.

++Menel

[Roa_Aoife]

At this point, I'm rather torn between voting Nogrod, Celuien, and Rikae.

Nogrod- for his fabricated case against Rikae. Even if she is evil, it could very easily be a Vamp on Vamp play, especially since there's no truth to it whatsoever. Nogrod could also rest easy knowing that with out his vote, she wouldn't be in trouble.

Celuien and Rikae - both for falling into Eomer's trap, and extra to Celuien for discrediting the plan while agreeing to it at the same time.

Legate is also irking me a bit, but I can't come up with a logical reason why. It may be the "too nice" thing that was previously mentioned, but until I can put my finger on it, I'll leave it be, and just watch him more closely. (If I don't get lost with the incharacterness of his posting.

I've decided to ease my suspicion of Gil, but only for now- it's not the first time he's been innocent with, at best, highly confusing cases.

Roa, you're a láthspell for sure, pointing out all the bad things people (read: I) haven't realised or haven't been thinking about yet...

Seeing as when I do a search on that word I get entries for Gandalf, I'll happily take that as a compliment. :D

Edit: Cross posted with the last three.

[Nogrod]

First those I have some ideas already.

I think I'm trusting Boro and Mac enough toDay. They have both spoken wisely and contributed to our cause. They are both men cabable of doing the very same thing were they villains but with these grounds ("a vampire might have done that as well") I'm not ready to suspect them more than necessary toDay.

Spm's early self-defence got me a bit worried but that's no reason to lynch him on Day1 either. Too risky. And he said he'll be back toDay so maybe we can hear more from him.

Rikae I'm in doubt. When I got to sleep the last time I thought that I would announce openly not to vote for her toDay as she's too valuable as an innocent to us. But as I've read more toDay after that I must say that I'm not declining the possibility of voting her.

Celuien's voting-decision really bothers me. She might be the one I'll go for.

I said yesterday (RL) that I liked the way Gil plays now but he has done a lot to make me change my mind after that...

Sleepy I can't vote as there are RL reasons for his little appearance.

A few things with Roa to follow...

Edit: X'd from Legate on...

[Thinlómien]

I should be leaving soon and I don't know who to vote... probably Cel or Menel. They seem the most suspicious this far. Anyway, I'm now to check through their posts.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

heh I forgot to put my vote in the proper form to avoid confusion. (yes I have sent it as well)

++Menel

[Boromir88]

I'll be voting for:

++Legate

Now I must depart

[Roa_Aoife]

You know, I've been thinking- Rikae has been acting rather suspiciously, especially since jumping on Eomer's "point" about Kitanna. It was an obvious trap, and given that we just used that the last game to catch a wolf, it makes me wonder. Is she trying to get lynched? Why would a Vamp do that, you ask?

My theory: Rikae is the Vampire Hunter. Rikae and her fellows are trying to get her lynched so she can take out a dangerous player with her, and the vamps get a second kill in the night. This would be even more possible if the Vampire Seer got lucky last night and found one of our gifted. It might be early in the game, but I'm not so sure.

Of course, I could be horribly mistaken about how the Vampire hunter functions, so I'm going to double check if the VH kills on a lynch.

[Aganzir]

I have been reading through the thread, and this far Sixth would seem quite innocentish, except for his opinion about revealing who to vote for at the beginning of the game. I also liked Roa's points.

I have no idea who I should vote for. No one seems to be strikingly suspicious. However, I didn't like how Xyzzy seized upon Rune's "Maybe you do and maybe you don't". One (and maybe the most possible) explanation could be that as this is the first Day, people are looking for some, at least a little suspicious signs on other players (this is what I'm doing right now?).
The others I'm slightly concerned about are Menel and Celuien. At first I was inclined to trust Celuien, but as I read her posts again, they left a little uncomfortable feeling, as did also her vote for Kitanna.

I would also like to hear more experienced players' opinions about following: would it be unwise (or unnecessary) to discuss more about this lynch seer thing? It might affect on voting if we were aware who would kill who in case of being lynched & given the chance to kill someone, or, were one the lynch seer, for who would s/he allow a free kill (in case s/he solves the riddle). As far as I've been thinking, I can't come up with any idea of how the Vampires could possibly benefit from seeing us discuss about these matters. Vice versa, it might be useful to see how easily some are ready to cast a vote on person who has hinted s/he might, given the chance, be ready to kill the voter. And what if the person to be lynched has announced to kill somebody trusted by the most? Would it be against the principles of the game to agree upon that whoever the lynch seer is, this person will not be given a free kill?
This may be a bad idea, but I thought it worth mentioning.

edit: x'd since Rikae.

[Nogrod]

Roa's insistence on my suspiciousness is no news. She does it always. And like the last game she's barking at the wrong tree again. What I'm a bit worried about is that she's made even worse case on me now than she did the last time (when she was wrong as well - and an innocent being wrong!).

But as she clearly is an intelligent woman, I'm getting some doubts to my mind from her insistence yet again. An innocent looks for the best of the village, not to try and get someone lynched just because she would like to get that someone lynched.

The funny point about Roa's case this far is the following. She accuses me of lying. We'll here's the stuff: Nogrod's blatant lying about Rikae's "blatant lying"I would like to say, that I might accuse Roa of blatant lying about myself lying blatantly about Rikae's blatant lying... and I'm pretty convinced that I'm more to the target here than she is (well, I know it, but anyhow).

But yes. I'm not going to pursue this any further toDay. If I'm here toMorrow I might exchange a few comments with Roa then. I have better candidates toDay.

[Roa_Aoife]

I would also like to hear more experienced players' opinions about following: would it be unwise (or unnecessary) to discuss more about this lynch seer thing? It might affect on voting if we were aware who would kill who in case of being lynched & given the chance to kill someone, or, were one the lynch seer, for who would s/he allow a free kill (in case s/he solves the riddle).

This may be a good idea. The only point I can think against is that a vampire might get the riddle and realize that the lynchee wants to kill another vampire, thus removing the chance. This case may be unlikely. Also, the lynchee may change their mind upon death, re-reading through the thread, and picking a new target, as it their right.

Beyond that, however, I see no reason not to do it. It's a bit late in the Day now, however. It'd be best to wait until Day 2, when we have fewer people but more information, and more time to discuss the idea. For now, it'd be safe to assume that a lynchee would go for their top suspect(s).

edit: crossed with Nogrod

[Thinlómien]

Celuien
#41 Says there are cases where innocents could/should feign voting early, to use the feign vote like a retractable vote is sometimes used. I disagree with her since this'll cause far too much confusion and distrust between the innocents. Yet she still says she will post her votes. Hmmm... this makes me quite uneasy. Why didn't I spot this slight suspiciousness before? Must have been because of the sympathic frog-comment... :D
#52 Corrects Kitanna about the rules and says the shade is interesting. Hmm.. if she noted Kitanna's mistake here, why did she consider it suspicious only when Eomer said it is?
#72 "I have cast my vote for Kitanna. On reflection, it was rather odd to think that the vampire-seer/ranger/hunter were additional roles."

Menel
#13 A traditional advice-giving post. But I don't like his advice... This early on I see nothing bad with giving people the benefit of doubt. Somehow the title "A bit of in-character banter, but some of it's serious" makes me wary... (Am I paranoid?)
#36 He defends his advice innocentishly, but then jumps on Boromir on quite flimsy grounds: he says he'll definitely be watching Boro since he had said he didn't want to die today. Granted, he didn't get the thing about Boro's birthday, but still... In this post Menel also agrees with SPM and finds Rikae worriesome. How convenient.
#53 Doesn't trust rikae, says she's going to get his vote tonight most probably.
#57 Corrects Rikae.
#73 "Well, I just sent in my vote for Rikae, and that should be all for toDay."

Oh, and I'll be taking a close look at Gil tomorrow. I'm uneasy about him, but I'd like to hear more of him or what others think of him before voting him... (Funnily, he's been more active than my other top suspects Cel and Menel who I feel readier to judge... :rolleyes: ) Also, I wouldn't like to lynch him (Gil) today - as there is no good reason for it - he has been one of the most active people toDay.

[Gil-Galad]

I really can't see anything againest Menel... i fear that we will either be hurting ourselves by voting for him... i won't say anything more...


but for now we must wait till this oracle shows up again...

xed with lommy

[Nogrod]

It's a bit late in the Day now, however. It'd be best to wait until Day 2, when we have fewer people but more information, and more time to discuss the idea.Agreed. Let's try to figure out the lynch for toDay. It looks to me that either all the people are leaving it to the last minute or they are not going to reveal their votes. The latter option is the worst we can get. If only half of the village tell whom they voted we will have basically no benefit from the votes.

Yes, three people will lie about their votes but if we "know" all the votes we can make inferences and they are better than nothing. So please people do not slip away without stating your votes here too.

Anyone has the tally so far? If not I'll take a look at it after a small pause I need now.

[Thinlómien]

Lomiella lowers her voice, as if telling a secret. "I voted Cel", she says and giggles. "She seemed the most suspicious. Her jumping on Eomer's accusations against Kitanna was very weird, especially as she had commented on Kitanna's words before."

Then Lomiella casts a look at the bearded woman and the woman with short hair. "As to the lynch-seer negotiating, it might be a good idea... - Aganzir, that made me feel you're innocent. - But let's not do that toDay maybe, like Roa said. I don't think anyone will be trusting any other person enough to grant them a kill at this phase... or I hope no one is."

Once again, Lomiella flushes her eyelashes. "Now I'll be going to sleep. see you toMorrow, dearies."

edit: xed with Gil and Noggie

[Gil-Galad]

Kitanna - 1
rikae - 2
Menel - 2
Cel - 3



last time i checked...

xed with lommy

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Roa points out well the possibility of a vampire being the lynch seer. However, assuming that the mod will assign the lynch seer gift at random (which is, I hasten to add, not the readiest assumption we will ever make) this will still give us information and leads, possibly highly valuable.

Be as public as you can; chances are it will help us.

I will be voting for ++CELUIEN

[Roa_Aoife]

But as she clearly is an intelligent woman, I'm getting some doubts to my mind from her insistence yet again. An innocent looks for the best of the village, not to try and get someone lynched just because she would like to get that someone lynched.


It's mildly insulting that you suggest I would try to get you lynched simply because it's you, and not because there's any real suspcion against you. The fact is that your case against Rikae is full of holes that show you are either lying or you didn't read the thread very well before you accused her. Since you offered no excuse in that area, I must assume it is the former. And this is hardly the inisistance used in the last game. I just pointed out the faultiness in your case. Your reaction of "suspecting her because she suspects me" is almost as flimsy. Even if you are innocent, which I have not ruled out this time either, narrowing your views this way is hardly for the benefit of the village.

But if I didn't honestly find you suspicious, I wouldn't try to get you lynched, not even for old rivalries, and not even if I was evil. I enjoy playing with you too much to look for ways to get rid of you on Day 1.

I have to go, and I vote for Celuien.

Edit: Crossed with everyone since my last post

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Vote x'd with Lommy.

And to stay in character, this fearful squabbling is frightfully delicious and fun! And lots more horror to come tonight! I deem it good, yes...goooood....

[Gil-Galad]

Kitanna - 1
rikae - 2
Menel - 2
Cel - 3



last time i checked...

xed with lommy


celuien is in the lead with 3 votes right now...

[Nogrod]

Okay.

Rikae 2
Menel 2
Celuien 3
Kitanna 1
Sixth 1
Legate 1

That means 13 votes still to come or undeclared... It's not going too well for us if we think of gathering some information from these toMorrow...

EDIT: upgraded the tally with Roa's vote

[Gil-Galad]

Okay.

Rikae 2
Menel 2
Celuien 3
Kitanna 1
Sixth 1
Legate 1

That means 14 votes still to come or undeclared... It's not going too well for us if we think of gathering some information from these toMorrow...


wow how did i miss so many...

[Celuien]

Umm. I replied to Kitanna's question yesterday evening and went to bed. Then I mulled things over while eating breakfast this morning, emailed my vote, and then came here to see Eomer's comment. :rolleyes: In other words, what he said had nothing to do with my vote.

What she said seemed too confusing, and after I replied, almost seemed like a vampire fishing for input on roles. Which I didn't think of until later.

I apologize if I didn't explain that enough before. It's a result of trying to run out the door to get to work in the morning and also trying to fit some sleep in between getting home from work and going back in the morning. :p

[Macalaure]

Legate's vote for Six is odd. Not only does it look like a throw away (is anybody else particularly suspicious of Six now?), but also the extremely hidden way in which he made it looks bad to me.

Even though I am quite suspicious of Rikae, I don't like to vote for her, because in the past lynching the one who looks most obviously strange was usually not a good idea. They're usually misguided innocents instead of wolves. Most wolves have learned to play more careful.

I can see the points raised against Celuien, but she didn't say very much overall today, so I would prefer leaving her for tomorrow.

I'd like to vote for somebody who is being more sneaky today, probably Menel or Legate.

[Aganzir]

I went and checked both Menel's and Celuien's posts, and I think I will vote for Celuien (and feel myself a newbie-who-doesn't-think-with-her-own-brain as I'll be the fourth person in a row to vote for her). Her posts made sense, in a way, but she just seems to be (like Boromir said about Legate) too nice for my liking, and the uncomfortable feeling hasn't left anywhere.
I don't know what to make out of her last post, but it isn't actually saying anything that might change my opinion about her previous posts.

++ Celuien

edit: x'd with Macalaure.

[Nogrod]

It's mildly insulting that you suggest I would try to get you lynched simply because it's you, and not because there's any real suspcion against you. The fact is that your case against Rikae is full of holes that show you are either lying or you didn't read the thread very well before you accused her. Since you offered no excuse in that area, I must assume it is the former. And this is hardly the inisistance used in the last game. I just pointed out the faultiness in your case. Your reaction of "suspecting her because she suspects me" is almost as flimsy. Even if you are innocent, which I have not ruled out this time either, narrowing your views this way is hardly for the benefit of the village.Nice to see it's only mildly insulting... but I've gotten that feeling lately (this is the second game in a row where you make totally ungrounded and far-fetched / fabricated... whatever points at me. Sorry but can't help it.) :rolleyes:

But as I'm afraid that I'm possibly not here to answer your points toMorrow, sorry about the sidetrack here at this moment.

I hadn't any case against Rikae yesterday (RL). I only pointed out that there were things that raised alarms in me. And as there is no case there should be a lots of holes there anyhow. If I'd said I was sure she was a villain you could have tried to find the holes and accuse me of a bad case - to the benefit of the village.

About not reading well enough I might ask the same question from you. Rikae even admitted herself she had been mistaken in her writing about these in-character things. Well, if she's a vampire she surely was not mistaken but caught... ;)

And anyhow. I was not saying that I knew she is a vampire, but stated quite clearly that I wished for some explanation of her actions. That was the best I had then. It's pretty bad gaming from an innocent to try to suppress discussion and questions by way of getting at them the first moment you see someone is trying. Not good politics.

And my reaction then? Of all the people you are then the one who doesn't take a pun with what it's worth? Oh my.

Maybe you're a baddie after all? :D

But okay. I just felt I had to say this for Roa can be pretty persuasive...

I was thinking of voting for Celuien but her latest comment looks pretty sincere.

Arrggh.

[Nogrod]

I'd like to vote for somebody who is being more sneaky today, probably Menel or Legate.I might stand behind your ideas Mac. I think Cel's last post speaks of innocense. And both of the two you raise have worried me a bit lately even though I haven't had a chance to look at them more closely.

[Nogrod]

Rikae 2
Menel 2
Celuien 4
Kitanna 1
Sixth 1
Legate 1

Anyone else around but Mac? Any thoughts?

We don't know what the votes are indeed. These are only the declared votes.

I'm afraid there are some to Rikae at least (well, not the worst candidate but I would sure have chosen someone else toDay) and to me Cel looks innocentish right now (lying about RL problems would be unfair and not Celuienish anyhow). I'm not sure about Menel or Legate. There's something odd with both of them, possibly more on Legate.

ToMorrow I hope everyone will understand why declaring one's vote is essential! This is stupid!

[Brinniel]

Legate's vote for Sixth is indeed rather odd. Still, I don't think this is a strong enough reason to vote for him just yet. But we should watch him more closely come toMorrow.

And I'm not exactly sure what to think of Menel, so I will not vote for him just yet.

The whole Kitanna bandwagon did seem pretty ridiculous, especially since she has not even gotten a chance to expain herself. This makes Celuien and Rikae to me. Maybe Celuien seems more the suspicious one to some for voting reasons, I think Rikae's jumping around and accusing attitude makes me feel more uneasy about her. She was my primary suspect last night, and if anything, my suspicions of her have only increased.

Deadline is almost here, so I will be submitting my vote now.

++Rikae

EDIT: X-ed from Aganzir on...

[Nogrod]

Legate it is then...

++ Legate

Let's hope that's enough...

[The Saucepan Man]

No time to expalin. I will tomorrow if I'm still here.

++Kitanna

[Volo]

Day 1 ended.

Night 2 began.

Send your kills/protections/dreams at last at 2 PM GMT tomorrow, because that is when I'll have to start Day 2. Sorry. (And it will be helpful if you send your kills and protections as early as possible.)

[Kath]

A long half-a-period had ended, the three Vampires were all fed up with the whole business. Their meeting place was on top of the highest tower. With their unnaturally good eyesight they could see all Kaimoir. The place the Men chose to sleep in was well lit with torches brought from above.


”Hmph, they don’t seem to believe Enhilion’s calming words about no monsters living here. His kindness killed him, because of that”, Lossenatar said.


Firithhyando cursed in the usual calm manner, ”Chort ih vozmi. Dear Hilly, why did you have to do it… The only consolation is that Hilly may still be somewhere around, his body is alive. Hey Num, cheer up, our plan is working after all”.


The usually strong willed Numundo was indeed weeping. Numundo turned towards Firithhyando and snapped, ”What do you mean by our plan working, it’s not! Enhilion is dead! Did you hear, dead! Would you have made such a sacrifice if you had known? Yulnagar knew, I bet! But did he tell us? No, he didn’t. Curse him! And now Enhilion is dead. So that’s who we should blame, not those fools down there”.


Lossenatar shouted with an icy stern voice, ”Do not speak ill of Yulnagar! I’m sure he has his reasons”.


With that something glinted in Numundo’s eye and the largest Vampire’s hand suddenly turned into a claw flying straight at Lossenatar’s chest. The slash would have been a deadly one, if Lossenatar hadn’t dodged. Firithhyando caught Numundo’s arm and held it firmly until the claw turned back into hand.


The only sound following was Numundo’s hard breathing. It softened soon. Numundo looked at Lossenatar, ”Sorry, friend. I didn’t mean it”.


”It’s ok”. Lossenatar was really shocked by Numundo’s sudden attack but it was too dangerous to start quarrelling now.


Firithhyando stood on the edge of the tower looking down, through it all. ”I feel danger”.


Numundo didn’t notice that and said, ”I’m going for blood, those humans will pay”.


”Don’t. King Yulnagar will be angry”, the eldest answered.


”Like I care? It’s Yulnagar’s fault, it’s all the same to me what he thinks about this”. With that Numundo jumped off the edge.


A lone bat flew through the city, only the eye of a Vampire could notice it.



-~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------~~-


The night wasn’t a pieceful one. Not only the Vampires didn’t sleep. Mac was tossing his knife around nervously. Glirdan was trying to make himself a bow, without much success. Legate was more lucky, he found a strong stick that he could use as a staff and was now carving on it in his thoughts. Sleepy slept: he was terribly tired.


But one woman was an exception. Brinniel was sulking in the corner of her room. There was probably nothing left that she hadn’t cursed that night. ”Why do I of all the people have to be here!” She tore at her hair and kicked a chair that stood perfectly innocently beside her corner. ”Aargh!”


Then as Brinniel stood up to look for something sharp, she noticed a piece of paper and a quill lying beside the door. She looked at it, and it looked back. Brinniel tried but couldn’t resist, she grabbed the quill and the empty piece of paper. Then she noticed the problem that floated in her room: there was no ink!


Brinniel cursed and was starting to rip the paper, when all of a sudden she heard a voice. The voice, oh, it was so beautiful! Brinniel heard words come to her from inside her own head. Words of poetry, just as beautiful as the voice. A glint of madness would have been seen in Brinniel eyes if somebody were there to see.


The girl held the quill in her shaking hand and slowly stuck it deep into her other hand. Blood started flowing. And Brinniel wrote words never written before. She wrote, and wrote, and wrote... She felt dizzy, but the voice in her head continued and Brinniel couldn’t stop now.


Unfortunately, she did, but not because she wanted to.


Behind the door to her room Numundo laughed and was gone.



-~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------~~-



The great clock struck.


As the crowd quietly gathered around the big square, the Oracle in Enohl’s body walked out from a house opposite the clock. He walked past Morgan and stood in the middle of the square.


”You have made a decision and I will honor it.


”Bravely this hidden eye told our truth, and now our truth remains.”


At that a gasp of terror was heared from beside Shasta.


An artificial scream of joy followed, ”Ribbits! It’s you! I thought you were lost”. Celuien pointed one way and ran the oppisite.


This caused a commotion. Aganzir bumped into Roa, Menel bumped into Diamond and many other collisions accured. Finally Gil got out of the crowd and started searching for Celuien. No sign of her could be found.


A lot of cursing followed and that was the moment when the absence of Brinniel was noted. Some screaming followed the cursing.



-~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------~~-



Having had a good sleep, Sleepy was the first to run to Brinniel’s house. Roa and Morgan followed Sleepy.


Brinniel’s house was locked. Sleepy tried bashing through, but only got a cut on his arm. While Roa was tending Sleepy’s arm, Morgan headed back to the square and soon returned with Esspiem. Esspiem looked at the lock, took a nail from his pocket, stuck it into the lock, twisted the nail and opened the door.


Sleepy, Roa and Morgan looked at each other and agreed that it would havee been better that Essipiem hadn’t opened the door.


The view was ghastly. All the things were tossed around and nearly all the furniture broken. Brinniel was sitting at the table, but clearly and sadly not too alive. She was paler than usually, which would have been the most shocking thing if not for the fact that Brinniel’s left hand was all red and there was a large puddle of blood below her chair.


She was dead. And so was her art. The piece of paper had blood all over it, only a small corner was readable.


"The gates crash down

The blood runs through

The veins are open
And now the world... is broken"


At that the four dizzy persons left the room.



-~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------~~-


Sleepy, Roa, Morgan and Esspiem returned the square and Roa told what they saw.


And then Celuien walked back from the darkness, slowly and calmly, with a smile.


”Get her!” shouted Menel.


”No. Let her come”, said the Oracle and Menel was ignored.


Celuien walked with her hands holding something near her heart. She continued mumbling, ”Ribbits... Oh, Ribbits. How scared I was when I couldn’t find you. I am so so happy that you came back”.


It didn’t help Esspiem when he saw that Celuien was in fact not holding a frog in her hands and chanted to thin air. He looked at the Oracle and back at Celuien, deciding to back out a bit.


The Oracle walked to Celuien and spoke, ”Your time is over, you have been chosen to die”. Enohl’s body put a hand on Celuien’s head.


What happened next was the most dreadful thing any of the people around had ever seen. Celuien fell into pieces. Her hands came off, her legs came off, bones cracked and broke. With a snap her head came off... After that everybody’s eyes were closed and nobody knew what happened, except that whatever happened, happened very loudly and the imagination replaced facts.


The noise calmed.


A while lasted.


Rikae risked her health and opened her eyes. What she saw not only suprised her even more but probably damaged her mental health, not that it wasn’t a pretty sight. But knowing what the beautiful, or at least artistic, chair the Oracle was sitting on had been a moment ago did make it an ugly situation.


The ugly situation continued being ugly.


Finally since the Oracle didn’t say anything, Glirdan asked, ”Umm... W..w...was she the V..Vampire?”


”No!”



-~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------~~-



The living:


Gil-Galad (Gil)

The Saucepan Man (Esspiem/SPM)

Rikae

Boromir88 (Boro)

Nogrod

Eomer of the Rohirrim (Eomer)

Thinlómien (Lomiella/Lommy)

Legate of Amon Lanc (Legate)

Aganzir

Meneltarmacil (Menel)

Xyzzy

Roa_Aoife (Roa)

Macalaure (Mac)

Diamond18 (Di)

Shastanis Althreduin (Shasta)

Kitanna

Sleepy Ranger (Sleepy)

Durelin

Glirdan (Glirdy)

Rune Son of Bjarne (Rune)

The Sixth Wizard (Morgan/Sixth)


The dead:


Celuien (Cel) – Turned into a chair by the Oracle after being voted out on Day 1. Innocent.

Brinniel – Possessed by the Vampires to write poetry with her own blood on Night 2. Innocent.



DAY 1

All votes should still be sent to the gmail address, or PMed to me if you've cleared that with Volo.

You may now start talking.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Shasta shook his head. "So both were innocent... As lovely... er... artistic as that chair is, looking at it does nothing for my mental health." He turned away, shuddering.

"Brinniel wasn't mentioned a lot yesterday, was she? I'm going to hold my vote for now, until we've heard any new evidence that might have surfaced during the night."

[Gil-Galad]

No Brinniel wasn't mentioned that much last day, the vampires must be playing it safe... we should look at who was under speculation last day, for one of them might be the vampire and with the brinniel-kill they played it safe...

much to do today... and i've been thinking too hard already...

[Gil-Galad]

Finally Gil got out of the crowd and started searching for Celuien. No sign of her could be found.

i must say my apologies to Cel for this part, i hope i didn't make you blush... :eek:


OOC: its probably just chance my name was put there, but why was i (a male) the one to searh cel (a female)? :o

[Shastanis Althreduin]

"Well, I'm not exactly sure how this will help, but if I recall correctly, the people under suspicion were Rikae, Gil-Galad, Esspiem, and to a lesser extent, Meneltarmacil, Nogrod, and Sixth. Of course, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!" Shasta caroled, running off to find something to eat. Maybe there was some preserved food in the kitchen of the big house, as he'd taken to calling it.

[Thinlómien]

Lomiella enters, her big eyes wet with tears. "Cel and Brinn are dead...?" she sobs and searches her pockets for a handkerchief. "Oh, I always was too emotional", she says, drying her face. "Now we must be rational and start discussing. I gues it's no use moruning the dead since those horrid beasts are still among us." She casts a wary glance around the cave.

Yesterday was a sort of fiasco. The village can only win if the villagers co-operate and that certainly did not happen yesterDay. Please people, tell me what was wrong with Sauce's plan? :confused:

Anyway, I've decided to quickly check through Brinn's posts. Results here soon.

edit: xed with the second posts of both Shasta and Gil

[Gil-Galad]

"Well, I'm not exactly sure how this will help, but if I recall correctly, the people under suspicion were Rikae, Gil-Galad, Esspiem, and to a lesser extent, Meneltarmacil, Nogrod, and Sixth. Of course, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!" Shasta caroled, running off to find something to eat. Maybe there was some preserved food in the kitchen of the big house, as he'd taken to calling it.


i remember only being under suspicion of Rikae, but that quieted down after Esspiem decided to talk about rikae more... and Legate has been receiving suspicion too...

but besides that peoples suspicion were not as cornered as you put it Shasta, as the days go by, it will be narrowed down.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well, yesterday's events were a lot more unhellpful than they could have been? Why were votes not made public?

But, er, I mean, isn't all this fear and trepidation frightfully wondrous? :p

A dark mind, I may have (my parents certainly thought as much), but I can still be an asset to this village.

I was the lynch seer.

I couldn't actually figure out the riddle I received last night, but I felt confident enough that it was Celuien, because the person to be killed received 5 votes; and I already saw that Celuien had 4 public votes, more than anyone else.

I chose not to post the riddle because, obviously, I suspected Celuien of being a wolf. Waking to find her innocent, I see that any kill she would have made would have been in good faith. My apologies, to you Celuien.

So: any thoughts?

[Boromir88]

the people under suspicion were Rikae, Gil-Galad, Esspiem, and to a lesser extent, Meneltarmacil, Nogrod, and Sixth.~Shastanis
I find this quite odd...considering it's a bit off.

Where is Kitanna in that list? She was one of the people who was most suspected. And why is Esspiem in that top list? Sure, some found his defense a bit too overly-defensive, but no one was acting as if they were prepared to vote for him. What about Legate as well? Besides myself I saw some people rumbling about Legate's 'awkwardness.' You will see myself, Nogrod, Mac, Roa, and Brinniel all to some degree express worry about Legate.

I find this odd, because it is rather skewed as far as what happened yesterday. Are you coming in here in the morning and trying to direct who gets under suspicion today? Or did you not carefully read what took place yesterday?

Edit: x-ed with Gil and Eomer

[Gil-Galad]

I find this quite odd...considering it's a bit off.

Where is Kitanna in that list? She was one of the people who was most suspected. And why is Esspiem in that top list? Sure, some found his defense a bit too overly-defensive, but no one was acting as if they were prepared to vote for him. What about Legate as well? Besides myself I saw some people rumbling about Legate's 'awkwardness.' You will see myself, Nogrod, Mac, Roa, and Brinniel all to some degree express worry about Legate.

I find this odd, because it is rather skewed as far as what happened yesterday. Are you coming in here in the morning and trying to direct who gets under suspicion today? Or did you not carefully read what took place yesterday?

Edit: x-ed with Gil and Eomer


exactly what i partially said in my previous post... so i say that Shasta's list not be followed because of its un-truthful-ness (i'm totally lost for words...)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Wolf? Er...vampire. :p

What's a wolf anyway...

[Aganzir]

I don't have much time now, as I'm at my friend's place, and this will be my only post for at least some hours. I will speak shortly.


I couldn't actually figure out the riddle I received last night, but I felt confident enough that it was Celuien, because the person to be killed received 5 votes; and I already saw that Celuien had 4 public votes, more than anyone else.
This leaves us with the question who is the fifth person (or the fourth and the fifth, in case one of us who voted for Celuien in public was a Vampire - yet at the moment I'm not inclined to think this would be probable.). However, I don't think how clever it would be if the fifth person(s) came out from the closet and said "hi, it's me, I voted for Celuien", as this would be quite an easy way for a Vampire to make him/herself seem innocent.
It would make things much easier if all were ready to tell their votes in public.

I don't have the time now, but when I'll be back, I will go through the thread and check if anyone else than us (who voted for Celuien) would have been seemingly ready to vote for her; if anyone hasn't already done that before I come back.

[The Saucepan Man]

First, at the risk of being accused of being overly defensive ( :rolleyes: ), a few points in response to some of the comments made about me yesterDay.

It was said (primarily by Rikae and Nogrod) that my opening words (about the less developed characters always being the ones to be picked off first) came across as defensive and Nogrod also commented on my reference to my sharp wits. I can, however, assure you that those opening words of mine were almost entirely fluff - an attempt at humour (based on horror film cliché) and in-character banter based on my stated character traits.

I was also accused of being overly defensive in my response to Rikae’s suspicion of me. This concerns post #17 in which, knowing that I would not have an opportunity to post much more of substance before the end of the Day, I summarised my thoughts on those who had spoken thus far, based on what they had said. Since Rikae had done little other than accuse me for my opening words at that stage, there was little else to say about her other than in connection with that.

Now, my vote for Kitanna. Unfortunately, as I had anticipated, I returned from searching this place less than an hour before sundown. I reviewed the Day’s events as best I could, but only had time to skim read much of it. When I read them, Kitanna’s confused words concerning the possibility of Vampire Gifteds being able to vote struck me immediately as suspicious. She was either genuinely confused or else a Vampire bluffing so as to give the impression that she couldn’t possibly be a Vampire. Since Kitanna generally knows what’s what and her ancestors have had much experience of Werewolves and the like, the latter struck me as a distinct possibility. I did see that these words of hers generated much debate and actually led the village to be more distrustful of those who accused her on this basis than Kitanna herself. I nevertheless thought it the most suspicious thing that I had seen and so cast my vote for her. I still regard her as a possible fanged wee beastie.

However, when I reviewed the Day’s events in more detail later a few things struck me about Rikae. My original impression was that her behaviour was far too attention grabbing to be Vampiric. However, some points of detail gave me cause to reconsider.

First, her denial of having accused anyone on the basis of in-character banter was in my view somewhat misleading. Not, as Nogrod thought, because of her playful “accusation” of Mac, but because she had expressed suspicion of me based on my opening banter.

Secondly, and of greater concern to me, is her involvement in the Kitanna affair. When Eomer laid his apparent trap with his accusation of Kitanna, she said:

I think Eomer has a good point about Kitanna. I can't quite believe she would honestly make the mistake of thinking the gifteds were on the vampires' side. I would be interested in hearing more from her.This brought her under suspicion for having jumped on Eomer’s unspecified accusation (and thereby fallen into his trap). In response to that suspicion, she said:

I should have said Celuien had a good point. :rolleyes: Yet Celuien only picked up on the Kitanna thing after Rikae had already done so. So how could Rikae have been responding to Celuien’s point when Celuien had not even made her point at that stage? Now, Rikae would have known that it was not Celuien’s contribution that prompted her accusation of Kitanna and, if innocent, would surely not have lied about this. It looks to me distinctly like a Vampiric slip.

But can both Kitanna and Rikae be Vampires? Would Rikae have jumped so enthusiastically on an acccusation of a fellow Vampire? I do not discount the possibility, especially as Rikae “laid her cards on the table” shortly thereafter and said that she was leaning towards giving Kitanna the benefit of the doubt. I am, however, currently more concerned about Rikae than Kitanna.

Finally, in this lengthy discourse, some comments on the “voting”. The stated votes were as follows:

Celuien: Kitanna (Kitanna 1)
Menel: Rikae (Kitanna 1, Rikae 1)
Sixth: Gil (Kitanna 1, Rikae 1, Gil 1)
Gil: Rikae (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1)
Legate: Sixth (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1)
Rune: Menel (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 1)
Rikae: Menel (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2)
Boro: Legate (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 1)
Lomiella: Celuien (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 1, Celuien 1)
Eomer: Celuien (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 1, Celuien 2)
Roa: Celuien (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 1, Celuien 3)
Aganzir: Celuien (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 1, Celuien 4)
Brinniel: Rikae (Kitanna 1, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 1, Celuien 4)
Nogrod: Legate (Kitanna 1, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 2, Celuien 4)
SPM: Kitanna (Kitanna 2, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 2, Celuien 4)

No vote stated: Xyzzy, Mac, Di, Shasta, Kitanna, Sleepy, Durelin, Glirdy

At least four of those who stated no vote are innocent. I would therefore ask all of those who did not state a vote here yesterDay to state now whether they submitted a vote to the Oracle or not and, if so, what it was (it would have been helpful to do this before Eomer revealed the number of votes actually cast for Celuien, but you can’t have everything :rolleyes: ). I would also ask those who expressed no view on the proposal to state votes here (Xyzzy, Shasta, Sleepy, Durelin and Glirdy) to say now whether they support it or not and to confirm that they will state their votes here in the future. And, as for those who opposed the idea (Di and Kitanna), I would ask them to explain how on earth they consider it to be in the village’s interests not to state their votes.

Now, some thoughts on the “voting”. Given that (assuming that the Lynch Seer survives the Night and is innocent) the number of votes cast for the lynchee will be known, I would expect Vampires to avoid “voting” for someone who looks likely to be lynched. This, to my mind, speaks in favour of those who “voted” for Celuien, since she looked quite likely to be lynched even before the “votes” for her were posted, namely Lomiella, Eomer, Roa and Aganzir. It also speaks slightly in favour of those who “voted” for Rikae at a time when it looked quite possible that she might be lynched, namely Gil (and Brinniel, but she’s now dead). It is also fair to say that Rikae’s “vote” for Menel, putting him equal with her on two “votes”, might be regarded as risky for a Vampire, though my current suspicion of her outweighs this.

The most suspicious “votes” (other than the “no votes”) are surely those cast for people who looked very unlikely to be lynched at the time that they were “cast”, namely those stated by Legate, Nogrod and (erm) me.

I’m off to consider the significance of last Night's events. More shortly.

[Macalaure]

Even though I missed the deadline to state it, I did manage to vote.

I voted for Legate.

[Thinlómien]

Brinniel suspected Rikae and Celuien, they were the ones who she said she could vote. She told us that she voted Cel.

Brinn also expressed slight concern over Legate and his Sixth-case.

She was not sure what to think about Menel.

Reading between the lines, she did not find Kitanna particularly suspicious.

Of others she said nothing.


What other people said about Brinniel

Boro did not like her first post and thought she was feigning to be "the confused villager".

Mac was also slightly suspicious of her.

Thinlómien was not worried by her.

Other people did not mention her at all.


~*~

That was it. Just like I presumed: nothing that would point to seerishness (to me her suspicions weren't seerish suspicions) or other kind of giftedness. (Nevertheless I wanted to check if there was somethig interesting in her or other people's posts.) Like was said aloud before, Brinniel was most probably killed to leave no tracks.

edit: xed with Aga, SPM and Mac

[Sleepy Ranger]

I had voted for Rune, it was a vote made at complete random mainly due to my inability to be on the computer much that day. Anyway, now that the weekend is here (mind you, my weekends are Friday and Saturday) I'll have time. Anyway, I'm off to go over all said and done. Post back in a bit.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

:o

Point taken SPM. However, I do think it unlikely that a vampire will claim to have voted privately for Celuien. If there's a lie then the person who truly did vote for her will jump right up and the village has a vampire in the bag. So it is difficult to fully trust one of these private voters but surely the risk of lying here is very great.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

hmmm I suppose I should join the rest of you in pointing out that Brinn probably was chosen because she had little chance to be online yesterday. . .Too bad she was killed before she got a chance to participate.

anyways I have a sugestion for a small debate we could have if we run out of fun subjects. . . We could talk about The Lynch Seer and what our individuel thoughts on a good stradegy is!

Now I must disapear out of sight once more and leave the fighting and arguing to the rest of you for a while, enjoy!

[Thinlómien]

Funny, Sauce, when you explained your claimed over-defensiveness, I started to consider you slightly over-defensive, even though I hadn't though so yesterDay... :D Anyway I think you had plenty of good points and analysis in your previous post so I'm not suspecting you (actively) yet.

edit: xed with Eomer, Sleepy and Rune. The village is quite chatty tonight, yay!

[Boromir88]

Anything past Thinlo's response here:
She told us that she voted Cel.
I haven't read yet because there was a slight discrepancy with SPM's vote count:
Brinniel: Rikae (Kitanna 1, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 1, Celuien 4)
And if we look SPM was correct:
Deadline is almost here, so I will be submitting my vote now.

++Rikae
So, what happened Thinlo?

[Thinlómien]

So, what happened Thinlo?Oops! :o I've been quite careless. I made a mistake, that's what happened.

[Meneltarmacil]

Well, I'm probably not going to be posting for a large chunk of the Day, so I might as well say something here.

Rikae is still my primary suspect.

Celuien's death was probably due to Vampirish influence. Even though the Vampires can't vote, they probably contributed to the lynching. All four vote declarations for Celuien occurred in rapid succession, which seems quite odd to me. As I read through the discussion of Celuien, I find Boromir88 to present a suspicious look. For the most part, Celuien's vote decision seemed to grow out of an understandable controversy over Kitanna, but Boromir88 quietly started to point at Celuien's vote to suggest that the latter was a Vampire. Eomer of the Rohirrim also seems to have suggested that Celuien may be up to something while at the same time suspecting Kitanna of being a vampire. So I'll be looking at both of them.

In any case, my suspects are Rikae, Boromir88, and [B]Eomer of the Rohirrim at this point.

[The Saucepan Man]

She told us that she voted Cel.Did I get this wrong? I thought she said that she voted for Rikae. I will check.

If I am right about Brinniel's vote, however, it raises the question (in my mind at least) whether a Vampiric Rikae would have been so bold as to target someone who had voted for her.

Assuming that Mac and Sleepy are telling the truth, updated "voting record" for yesterDay is as follows:

Celuien: Kitanna (Kitanna 1)
Menel: Rikae (Kitanna 1, Rikae 1)
Sixth: Gil (Kitanna 1, Rikae 1, Gil 1)
Gil: Rikae (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1)
Legate: Sixth (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1)
Rune: Menel (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 1)
Rikae: Menel (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2)
Boro: Legate (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 1)
Lomiella: Celuien (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 1, Celuien 1)
Eomer: Celuien (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 1, Celuien 2)
Roa: Celuien (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 1, Celuien 3)
Aganzir: Celuien (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 1, Celuien 4)
Brinniel: Rikae (Kitanna 1, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 1, Celuien 4)
Nogrod: Legate (Kitanna 1, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 2, Celuien 4)
SPM: Kitanna (Kitanna 2, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 2, Celuien 4)
Mac: Legate (Kitanna 2, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 3, Celuien 4)
Sleepy: Rune (Kitanna 2, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 3, Celuien 4, Rune 1)

No vote stated: Xyzzy, Di, Shasta, Kitanna, Durelin, Glirdy

I have added Mac and Sleepy on the end as there is no indication as to when they voted. I note that, despite posting already toDay, Shasta did not take the opportunity to tell us how he voted.

Point taken SPM. However, I do think it unlikely that a vampire will claim to have voted privately for Celuien.Fair enough, although it would have provided an opportunity for a possible Vampire slip.

Funny, Sauce, when you explained your claimed over-defensiveness, I started to consider you slightly over-defensive, even though I hadn't though so yesterDay... Remember, I was not around to respond to those points yesterDay, so addressing them toDay means dealing with them all "in one go", as it were.

I share Boro's misgivings over Shasta's attempt to identify those who came under suspicion yesterDay. It looks off to me too.

Edit: Crossed with Boro, who confirmed Brin's vote for Rikae

[Durelin]

I didn't state my vote because I didn't vote. Of course there's no way to prove that. Whatever.

You know, this whole the vampires don't get to vote thing really isn't an advantage to the villagers. It might be a little bit of a disadvantage for the vampires, but at the same time it helps keep them extremely clean - we can't really get much dirt on them based on their votes, because they're not really voting. About the only warning signs we'd get is if the stated votes added up give a different result than the kill, and the chances of that happening at this point are very slim. And still then we'd only know that there's almost definitely a vampire in a certain voting group....

Basically, I think we're screwed.

Man, there are way too many people and way too many posts. Tonight I should have some time, though, so I'll come up with my vote then and let everyone know...well, unless I get up tomorrow to vote. But either way I promise to let everyone know when I vote. And I will vote this time....I won't let all you other innocents slowly kill each other off by yourselves....

[The Saucepan Man]

Celuien's death was probably due to Vampirish influence.This certainly merits further consideration. I am somewhat at a loss to see why Celuien became such a prime target in such a short space of time, especially as I shared her misgivings over Kitanna's "confusion". However, as I have said, I do think it would have been risky for a Vampire to state a vote for Celuien, and it looks unlikely that one did on the figures we know. I am not ruling it out entirely, but I think it unlikely.

[Rikae]

Rikae sighed and sagged against the wall of the nearest building. Her careless mistakes would doubtless cost her life; and though she didn't fear death, she was filled with regret for the help she would be unable to offer the village.

Yet Celuien only picked up on the Kitanna thing after Rikae had already done so. So how could Rikae have been responding to Celuien’s point when Celuien had not even made her point at that stage? Now, Rikae would have known that it was not Celuien’s contribution that prompted her accusation of Kitanna and, if innocent, would surely not have lied about this. It looks to me distinctly like a Vampiric slip."I'll just be absolutely honest here, make of that what you will. When I read Eomer's comment on Kitanna, I looked back at her post to see what it was she was doing, and immediately saw that she was casting doubt on the theory that no villager would lie about their vote. I assumed this was Eomer's point and responded accordingly.
When Eomer claimed to have had no point, I remembered Celuien had articulated the same thing and, forgetting I came to the conclusion independantly of her, said it was her point.
You'll note that both Celuien and I noticed the same oddity about Kitanna's post independantly of each other, and in Cel's case, independantly of Eomer. It would seem that whatever his wolf-trapping intentions may have been, he chose a genuinely odd-looking post to indicate. You be the judge whether there was anything eyebrow raising about Kitanna's post in it's own right...like I said, I'm more inclined to think it's an innocent mistake, but there the possibility of something more sinister.

I think it might be a good idea to look at those who did not post their votes yesterday. We had discussed the importance of revealing our votes at great length, and while RL can intervene, any well-meaning villager should be willing to post his or her vote if humanly possible. Those who didn't post are:
Xyzzy
Mac
Di
Shasta
Kitanna
Sleepy
Durelin
Glirdy

Mac had a RL excuse, and I feel very strongly that he is innocent. Sleepy blatently stated he wouldn't participate yesterday; I certainly hope he's willing to step forward and be scrutenized with the rest of us today.
Di, Durelin and Kitanna worry me; they should have posted, I would think. Kitanna, of course, actually argued against revealing votes. But I would really like to see explanations from all the non-vote-posters, and it's my opinion that anyone not stating a vote today should be considered highly suspicious."

Rikae put her hand to her forehead (Durelin's avvie style) and frowned.

"I'm not saying we shouldn't look at the vote-posters as well. A sensible vampire would most likely post a vote for an unlikely lynchee...those votes wouldn't be revealed."

She looked pointedly at Legate, than sank to the ground and stared sadly into the fire.

EDIT: X'd with Durelin and SPM

[Boromir88]

I've found something that was rather peculiar...yesterday Shastani said this in post 16:
"Calm, you two... this early on, I doubt there's much of anything in the way of evidence to go on. There's no real point in accusing each other when there's no proof of guilt or innocence whatsoever."
To which I responded in Post 39:
I think accusations reveal the character of a person, and I find accusations to be about as helpful as anything (besides blind luck) on Day 1. I find accusations to be a good thing, so I think it's awkward Shastani, you are telling us to not do it.
A bit later on Legate said to me in Post 43:
Well I think we'd agree that without accusations we'd get nowhere. However, the ones who care the most on getting someone under any suspicion are the Vampires. So I find Shastani's comment rather in place, or at least I see it "unharmful".
I had cross-posed with Gil today, but as we both picked up Shasta had left Legate out of the 'suspicious' list of yesterday. Which I find to be really odd looking at the considerate amount of suspicion Legate came under yesterday. Now Legate wasn't likely to be lynched, but I have no reason to doubt Mac saying he voted for Legate (seeing as he had consistantly expressed worries about Legate), plus several others commenting on being 'uneasy' about Legate. I mean from the tallies yesterday Legate did receive 3 votes.

There is a connection between these two that I find to be extremely vampiric looking. Legate slightly defends Shasta saying his comment was in line...and then today Shasta leaves Legate out of his list today. Perhaps attempting to get people to focus on Rikae, Gil, and SPM as suspects?

(Though I encourage anyone to stop me if they believe I'm making too much out of nothing). However, do we have a vampire connection between Legate and Shasta here?

Edit: x-ed with Rikae

[The Saucepan Man]

As far as I can see, there were two who expressed suspicion of Celuien (based on her Kitanna vote) but did not actually end up stating a vote: Nogrod and Boro. Nogrod, in particular, stated (in #103) that she might receive his vote, but he ended up voting for Legate – after it became clear that Celuien was very likely to be lynched. If there was Vampiric influence in the lynching of Cel, he would be my pick.

When Eomer claimed to have had no point, I remembered Celuien had articulated the same thing and, forgetting I came to the conclusion independantly of her, said it was her point.Hmm, I find it highly unlikely that anyone (or anyone innocent, at least) would form a view independently and then forget that they had done so and attribute it to someone else who had expressed the same view subsequently. You're not looing good to me Rikae.

But I would really like to see explanations from all the non-vote-posters, and it's my opinion that anyone not stating a vote today should be considered highly suspicious.With this I agree, but I am certainly not taking my eye off you.

While I do have some concerns over those who did not express a vote, and particularly those who challenged the proposal to do so, the question does arise as to how a Vampire might best have responded to my proposal. To have refused to go along with it might be thought of as unnecessarily risky for a Vampire, particularly as it received so much support. Still, as I said earlier, I think that those who have either not expressed a view, or who objected to it, should now explain themelves.

[The Saucepan Man]

As far as I can see, there were two who expressed suspicion of Celuien (based on her Kitanna vote) but did not actually end up stating a vote: Nogrod and Boro.To clarify, by this I meant that they did not end up stating a vote for Celuien.

[Rikae]

Hmm, I find it highly unlikely that anyone (or anyone innocent, at least) would form a view independently and then forget that they had done so and attribute it to someone else who had expressed the same view subsequently. You're not looing good to me Rikae.
I was operating under the assumption it was Eomer's point, not mine. When he said he had no point, it became Celuien's point in my mind; I never considered it my own, and honestly, I forgot that Celuien posted after me - I only remembered that she also agreed with the point I thought Eomer was making. I had to go back and look today to see who actually posted first.

[The Saucepan Man]

Keep digging, Rikae ... ;)

[Rikae]

How so? I'm becoming more and more suspicious of you, now. What is this? Everyone else can make mistakes but me? I'm afraid I'm just as fallible as the rest of us...

[xyzzy]

Hmm... From post #149, I'm quite supicious of Rune. The wording seems to suggest secrecy. An innocent should never try to remain out of sight, and Rune seemed tio be saying he was doing just that.

So I will vote for Rune.

Yesterday, I voted before there was any real info, and I voted for Lommy.

I'm only mildly suspicious of Rikae, but perhaps the seer could decide for us...

[Nogrod]

Just a few things to begin with (and then I'm off to cook some food to Lommy & myself - and yes, we will be sharing the computer on this Day2).

I think Spm had a point in saying: The most suspicious “votes” (other than the “no votes”) are surely those cast for people who looked very unlikely to be lynched at the time that they were “cast”, namely those stated by Legate, Nogrod and (erm) me.I will also be looking at the non-declared-voters toDay as I find the plan to reveal our votes the best one we have. The end of yesterDay was just a plain disaster. Those of us who were online at the last moments had no clear idea who was getting the votes in the first place as so many votes were undeclared. So we were just shooting in the dark. Let's not make that happen a second time.

I thought Celuien's attack on Kitanna was quite vampirish (she tried to come up with a reason to a fake vote) and I was quite ready to vote for her... until this one came about (there were stuff before this but this one made me think it again...I apologize if I didn't explain that enough before. It's a result of trying to run out the door to get to work in the morning and also trying to fit some sleep in between getting home from work and going back in the morning.This game in the meta-level is about trust anyhow. Not trusting any of you others with what you say in-game, but trust on the explanations given when they involve RL. Anyone could PM her/his friend at anytime, anyone could say s/he has RL problems when s/he thinks s/he's under too hot suspicions, whatever. So I do categorically terust RL explanations (like Sleepy yesterDay - as soon as I saw his post in the admin threwad I decided not to pursue his pretty blatant post any more that Day).

So what Cel here said looked to me basically that she was having a rushed day and needed to stick to any good idea she could form - and we don't know as yet whether she was right with it. She might as well be. Spm's discussion about Kitanna being quite knowledgeable kind of made me rethnik the issue...

But I couldn't vote for Cel after that message she sent and we had twenty minutes to go. And as I said, with no cue whatsoever about who was going to get lynched. It was a disastrous situation...

But referring to Spm's point then. I know myself to be innocent so Spm and Legate I would like to look another time toDay as well. But as I said already, my first interest (at least now) is the "non-revealers"... and of course the few of you I suspected already yesterDay.
-----
But the more important point then.

Please make your votes known toDay!

I don't wish to see another Day with this little clues from the voting. That tally helps us. Just believe it and act on it.

Although it's not so straightforward as some here have stated - I mean the reading of those results. But anyhow. It's the best "quasi-fact" we might have.

[Thinlómien]

Celuien's death was probably due to Vampirish influence. Even though the Vampires can't vote, they probably contributed to the lynching.Of course it is possible, but I don't think the "evidence" from yesterDay clearly points to that. I don't think that rapid succesion of votes is suspicious per se, especially as it was close to the deadline.

Boro, I think you're a bit too accusing towards Shasta as he's a newbie. I know newbies shouldn't be underestimated, but I think the things Shasta has said to make him look suspicious in your eyes make him look a confused, probably innocent villager in my eyes. Of course I can't be sure, but I'm not very worried about him at the moment.

Hmm... From post #149, I'm quite supicious of Rune. The wording seems to suggest secrecy. An innocent should never try to remain out of sight, and Rune seemed tio be saying he was doing just that.I fail too see what is suspicious about that post of Rune's. Xyzzy, have you considered the possibility that this feigning mysterious (I say feigning because I don't find Rune any more mysterious than anyone else here) might be a part of Rune's character in this game?

[Kitanna]

I still have a class to go to, but I'd like to say, I was honestly confused about the roles in this game. I've read and reread everything over and over as far as the rules go and I think I finally have a hold on it. I wasn't trying to mislead the village with my post, I was just proving my idiocy by completely misunderstanding the roles.

Anywho I need to run, but I'll be back in an hour or two come hell or high water.

Edit: spelling errors

[Meneltarmacil]

Actually, Saucepan, both Nogrod and Boro expressed suspicion of Celuien yet stated that their votes were for Legate. I'm not sure exactly why they would try such similar tactics, but it would fit with a quiet suggestion that influences the voting yet doesn't directly implicate them. Both Nogrod and Boromir88 are smart enough to have thought of using such subtle tactics, so I think at least one of them is likely a Vampire.

[Durelin]

I think looking at the no/undeclared-voters is a waste of time. The vampires, unless they had absolutely no time at all, likely would have posted some kind of vote so they could avoid scrutiny, even if it was just a "random" one. They don't have to worry about who they vote for in the same sense as an innocent does because their votes don't count. As long as they stick some sort of inconspicuous vote in, it's no big deal at this point. Their vote doesn't actually count, and there's too many people for their vote to necessarily be picked out...not anymore than anyone else's vote, really.

Well, unless a vampire's already messed up. The person who looks right now like they're a vampire who's messed up with Shasta, but I'm not jumping on that quite yet.

I wish I had more time to go over the thread. Sorry, doing my best to keep up, but right now I haven't read enough to point out anyone in particular. Except - Sauce, you sound like Nogrod. ;)

[Durelin]

Ooh, something just caught my eye. Double-posting because...I can? *shrugs*


Hmm... From post #149, I'm quite supicious of Rune. The wording seems to suggest secrecy. An innocent should never try to remain out of sight, and Rune seemed tio be saying he was doing just that.

So I will vote for Rune.

Yesterday, I voted before there was any real info, and I voted for Lommy.
He's voting for Rune for seeming secretive, and yet he didn't bother to tell anyone who he voted for yesterDay? Now, I completely understand if he didn't have time to post, but he said himself that he voted early. It seems we have a Hypocrites on our hands. Hypocrisy?! Duplicity?! Shocking.

[Diamond18]

Wee, I'm here. Aren't you all lucky.

I see there's been a bit of clamoring for outing of votes. I didn't feel like stating my vote for a variety of reasons yesterday... for one, I suppose I find it rather boring to thwart the innovation of secret votes and just play like usual. Pure cantakerousness. For twice, I had no good reason to vote for the person I voted for and it annoyed me: but since I had to vote quite early in the day and there was virtually nothing posted besides lots and lots of in character stuff, I went with shoddy reasoning. I didn't want to draw attention to my very lame participation, which I suppose is a vampirish tactic but also the tactic of an innocent who figures begging to be lynched isn't the best way to help the village, either. I'll leave you to decide which you think I am.

I voted for Legate yesterday. I figured the devil you know is better than the one you don't so I decided to go with either Sixth, Agnazir, Xzzy, Legate, or Rikae, all players whom I haven't not played with and therefore have no real feel for their playing styles.

Anyway, there you go. I'm in a rather annoyed state at the moment as when I signed up for the game I had internet at home and have since lost it, so unfortunately I have to read through reams of posts at once and then try and make something of it all without the luxury of analysis or re-reading or pattern-finding. Nothing says anything to me on first read-through. So I really am the most useless werewolf player unless I have lots of time at my disposal. Which I thought I was going to have, but don't *kicks things in a snit* *whines at length*

Which brings me to this: I have to vote now. I'll go with Nogrod.

[Diamond18]

PS - If it helps with your chart making and whatnot, I voted between posts #57 and #58 yesterDay

[Gil-Galad]

(Though I encourage anyone to stop me if they believe I'm making too much out of nothing). However, do we have a vampire connection between Legate and Shasta here?



Hmm... perhaps if we vote off one of them, then the other's true colours will show itself? but it depends on who really...

but what is bothering me is Diamond, pops in, explains vote for legate, then votes for nogrod with no reasoning behind it... i don't like it, sounds like a vampire trying to ward off votes on a susepcted vampire(legate) and move it onto Nogrod. done very poorly though...

thats the thing that bugs me most, the no-reason suspision of Nogrod... it seems to poor... perhaps a trap...

but in conclusion

Legate+Shasta= vampire pair, if we lynch one of them,and he turns out to be a vampire, then we will have another vampire and Boom! two vampire dead and gone

Diamond: jumping from Legate to Nogrod with no explanation... confused innocent? desperate vampire? or a very sneaky vampire trying to play dumb to fool us all...

xed: with di's second post

[Nogrod]

Actually, Saucepan, both Nogrod and Boro expressed suspicion of Celuien yet stated that their votes were for Legate. I'm not sure exactly why they would try such similar tactics, but it would fit with a quiet suggestion that influences the voting yet doesn't directly implicate them. Both Nogrod and Boromir88 are smart enough to have thought of using such subtle tactics, so I think at least one of them is likely a Vampire.

For your health, and my sanity, please read through the entire thread.

Just couldn't resist this quote Menel.

But it seems that either you are forcefully making bad points as you're a vampire or... But really. Now state me one believable reason why two Vampires would wish to make such an appearance! You said you think us to be smart enough. But that kind of action would be just stupid. Cel was innocent as we now know, now isn't she? So why the "we" (like we had a common consent on this!) should not be happy with that if we were vampires? Being concerned enough to make last minute changes according to f.ex. saving those one thinks innocent speaks more often than not of sincerity and a trial to look at the good of us all rather than wolvery (vampiery?). The wolves have a pretty easy Day1 anyhow. So why would they bother?

But I'm not sure if you Menel just abandon your reason after the first move or whether you're evil...

Another thing as well.

Killing Brinniel. I think it was a work of at least one dominating and active vampire or a teamwork of several of them. And they have laudable gaming-ethics as well.

Some of my ancetors have fallen to the evil and they have encountered very different baddies. There are different things that make up reasons for the kill at Night. If someone looks seerish, if someone is too close to the truth / or vice versa etc... But when there is no clear-cut decision then according to my family-lore there could be said being two kinds of baddies. Those insecurer ones who wish to kill the "good players" (active / influential /smart, whatever) first as to minimize their influence on their game. And then there are the "good sports" who wish for an enjoyable game with opponents who can fight back and thence leave them alone in the first Nights.

Now I think killing Brinniel was a kind of a "safe" kill from the last category. That means that at least one of our Vampires is an ethically high-level player with some confidence.

I don't think I need to make a list here... :eek:

[Gil-Galad]

Now I think killing Brinniel was a kind of a "safe" kill from the last category. That means that at least one of our Vampires is an ethically high-level player with some confidence.

I don't think I need to make a list here... :eek:

Please do...

and i did state at begining of the day that Brinniel was a safe kill and the vampires are playing low for a little bit... hopefully we can pin em down


also, i just realized that sixth voted for me last day,i must read back and find out why he did...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Ooc: Since I can't find a way to put this in roleplay for, you get it out of context. :P

Okay, first of all. My last post of yesterday was during my fifth class of the school day. After school, I went to work, did not get home for another five and a half hours, by which time night had started, which is why I did not get a chance to vote, since I usually leave my votes until close to the last second, to accomodate any evidence that might show up. I did not vote yesterday.

My first post today was at college, and I didn't say who I voted for because it didn't occur to me to tell you, honestly. I don't mind saying who I vote for; I had other things on my mind, it simply did not occur to me to say who I voted for.

Same with Legate. I'll explain this momentarily as my library computer time is almost up and the computer's about to self-restart, so I'll edit this in a sec.

Okay, back. Quite simply, I forgot that Legate had been under suspicion yesterday. I've had RL stuff (actually, I've been Prom-crastinating; it's tomorrow, and just today I got a date, tux, flowers, etc. Go me. :D) and honestly haven't read the thread that thoroughly, although I have about three hours to kill here at the library, so it's on my list of things to do. :)

Edit: x'd with Gil's post.

[Gil-Galad]

alright, found sixths post, now my defense

The person I have decided to vote for is Gil. As I said, for me at least he is very indescernable, and it is Day 1 after all. We may as well have a shot in the dark than take out a potentially valuable innocent like Nogrod or Rikae.

so i take it that you voted for me because i wasn't valuable to the group... ouch... you're breaking my heart here sixth... but what i jsut noticed is that he listed 2 other people... why those two hmmm? Sixth+Rikae+Nogrod= 3, there are 3 vampires on the lose.... do the math, it could be by chance or it could be sixth attempt to hide his comrades, luckily nobody paid any attention to this post... except me...

Hell, I don't know how to act on Day 1. Last game we got a wolf Day 1 and it was wierd after that.

wow... now you say that you don't know why you voted me, just a friendly reminder, Every Werewolf game is different, the worst thing to do is to apply what you found out of people last game and bring it here, just about everyone acts differently in every game. Just because Glirdy(using you as an example buddy) was a wolf last game doesn't mean he is going to be a wolf again this game.


i should get paid for my extra-participation...

[Nogrod]

i should get paid for my extra-participation...
:D

I love you Gil!

I may disagree with your points though...

[Gil-Galad]

:D

I love you Gil!

I may disagree with your points though...


i love me too...


i'm mainly stating them as possibilities, might not be true... but it brings sixth into the spotlight for the time being... it will probably be coincedence anyways...

[Diamond18]

Bah, this is why I destest explaining myself, I invariably get called things like dumb and confused. Which isn't altogether untrue. But still. I'm one of those players who gets more and more suspicious the more and more I talk. If you must know, I went with Nogrod because he's on that list he himself needn't make. ;)

[The Saucepan Man]

I'm becoming more and more suspicious of you, now.Why? For questioning you over a slip that might suggest Vampiric tendencies? How absurd.

I'm only mildly suspicious of Rikae, but perhaps the seer could decide for us...I hope that you are not trying to flush out the Seer there, Xyz.

Those of us who were online at the last moments had no clear idea who was getting the votes in the first place as so many votes were undeclared.Indeed. It might therefore be sensible for us not to leave our (stated) votes right up until the last minute. *Glares at Nogrod* After all, the Vampires cannot actually vote. They can only pretend to, so the strategic value of last minute voting (for innocents) is somewhat lessened.

Except - Sauce, you sound like Nogrod.Well, at least I haven’t come up with any crazy triangulation theories yet … ;)

Now state me one believable reason why two Vampires would wish to make such an appearance!Fair point, Noggie. Then again, I’m feeling pretty comfortable with Boro at the moment … :p

And, despite just having done it myself, I am not too happy with the way you are seeking to make accusations by implication, without naming names.

I will post a new Day 1 "voting record" once Kitanna and Glirdy have had an opportunity to state their votes from yesterDay (if, indeed, they voted).

Btw I rather like the new Gil. :D

Edit: Cross-posted with the preceding Gil love-in, to which I now appear to have contributed ...

[Gil-Galad]

Bah, this is why I destest explaining myself, I invariably get called things like dumb and confused. Which isn't altogether untrue. But still. I'm one of those players who gets more and more suspicious the more and more I talk. If you must know, I went with Nogrod because he's on that list he himself needn't make. ;)


so it was his post of making a list of high-leveled players... so you vote againest nogrod by using his own method... interesting... i'll probably end up giving you the benefit of the doubt for now

my attentions are moving towards the shasta/legate pair we have going... and still Rikae, who is acting weirder then usual...

edit:xed with Esspiem! you have your first triangle now... even though it involves me, nogrod and you... hearts are to be broken thats for sure...

[The Saucepan Man]

so it was his post of making a list of high-leveled players... so you vote againest nogrod by using his own method... interesting... i'll probably end up giving you the benefit of the doubt for now It might be worth noting that Di's stated vote came in before Nogrod set out his theory ...

[The Saucepan Man]

you have your first triangle now... even though it involves me, nogrod and you... hearts are to be broken thats for sure...Zut alors ...! :D

[Gil-Galad]

It might be worth noting that Di's stated vote came in before Nogrod set out his theory ...


wow... now that is good sleuthing, i probably would have never caught that... so now diamond is also under speculation...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Okay, first page done. My computer time's about to shut off again (it does it every thirty minutes, and I have to get the librarian to log me back on)

So I'll post what I have in notepad here, then come back and edit it when I get logged back on.

First controversial post of the game:

"I don't trust this Mac person. He speaks of a knife...then says he doesn't have one! I say we search him.

And what is this talk of "less developed characters" from Esspiem? I never quite trust someone who starts off with a joke about his or her own vulnerability, combined with a long speech reiterating the situation at hand.

My notes: The first accusation strikes me as just in-character banter. The second may have something to it.

And then the first suspicion: And Rikae... accusing two people right off the bat are we? my what headstrong you are... but you should be careful... or doing the whole double bluff, instead of acting like a confused , you could be pretending to be a vampire and lose the lead off of you early... i do not like that one bit... and now my hunch is moving on to you being very suspicous...

My notes: To me, it seems that Gil's taking Rikae's first accusation a bit too seriously...

Rikae's retort:
Suspect me then! I like this new kind of game, and I'm gonna have fun with it!

My notes: Rikae doesn't put much stock in Gil's suspicions.

My first controversial post:
"Calm, you two... this early on, I doubt there's much of anything in the way of evidence to go on. There's no real point in accusing each other when there's no proof of guilt or innocence whatsoever."

My notes: That's just me. I'm not fond of first day executions in any games as I've had it backfire numerous times; executing a healer, forcing a dreamer to reveal their role, etc.

Boromir finds this suspicious:
I think accusations reveal the character of a person, and I find accusations to be about as helpful as anything (besides blind luck) on Day 1. I find accusations to be a good thing, so I think it's awkward Shastani, you are telling us to not do it.

My notes: HE MISSPELLS MY NAME. Just because you find something to be a good thing doesn't necessarily mean others do. I was simply stating my opinion, not telling others what to do or not do.


Sleepy's first suspicious post:
....I'm afraid I shall keep to myself for this day.

My notes: Didn't he have an RL excuse?

Gil-Galad being suspicious, again:
....a vampire could easily say this and try to get away... i don't like this at all... is it a trick? perhaps it is...

My notes: Gil's striking me as being very accusatory here... almost desperate.

Possible Nogrod suspicion:
"And where do you think you're going Mr. Sleepy? I will mark your name right now."

My notes: Probably just roleplaying banter, but may not be, which is why it's here, marked "Possible".

Suspicion by Rikae:
Right now Gil and Esspien look the worst to me...

My notes: Esspiem doesn't seem all that suspicious to me, but Gil is throwing off major danger signals at this point.

Suspicion by Meneltarmacil: I too wonder about that Boromir88. Seems quite strange in his post; quite concerned about dying, which is understandable, but only toDay. I'll definitely be watching him.

My notes: Well, it was obvious to me that Boromir had something going on in RL that day. Granted, it might not have been as obvious to others, but still.

Also suspicion by Meneltarmacil: As for Espiem, I agree with him that accusing people based on in-character bantering is suspicious. Rikae certainly does seem to be giving off warning signs in that respect.

My notes: I couldn't tell that Rikae was accusing people... I thought that was Gil.

Rikae's defense:
"When did I ever accuse someone based on in-character banter? If you want to see someone doing that, look at Esspiem and Gil-Galad! It's exactly the reason I don't trust them."

My notes: I thought it was Gil, but I don't remember seeing Espiem being very accusatory regarding in-character banter.

Another suspicion by Boromir:
Like I mentioned, Legate seems too nice and a little to quick to buddy up with our Sir Espiem.

My notes: I find this being accusatory of in-game banter... something to look into.

This post bugged me:
So here is where the fools have gathered? How lovely that there are so many of you in one place. You can be as stupid as you'd like, but I have a problem with people always adding their own crap to my pile.

In other words - stay away from me, and I won't mistake you for a Vampire.

Oh, yeah...you Vampires? Yeah, you. You listen. I bet you think you have it easy. And maybe you're right - you may not get any say in who we take out, but you know as well as I do that we s excel at slitting our own throats... *glances at Brinniel* or wrists.... But you know what? You're no different from them, even with your silly powers.

So go slaughter some goats and leave me the hell alone.

Maybe Durelin's the Shade? That was my first thought when I saw this post, although I can't think why the Shade would want to reveal themselves so early on... probably just banter, but it caught my eye.

Edited to make sure I got the quote tags right, and to add my notes. On to the second page!

[Macalaure]

I finally managed to read through today's happenings.

I've started to wonder why (with the exception of Menel) everybody seems to be so convinced of Eomer's innocence. I don't see this at all. That wolf-trap could just as easy have been a confused-innocent-trap of a vampire (in fact, that's how it worked out in the end). I don't say this is the case, but I wonder why nobody has mentioned the possibility so far.

Right now, I'm quite fond of Boromir's innocence. I particularly like his point about Legate and Shasta.

Is it just me or is there something mighty wrong about the way Nogrod and Espiem are argueing with each other? It doesn't leave me with the feeling of two innocents bashing it out.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Page 2 done. Time's almost up again. Will edit momentarily.

Legate, rebutting Boromir's post about my post (thanks for that, by the way):
Well I think we'd agree that without accusations we'd get nowhere. However, the ones who care the most on getting someone under any suspicion are the Vampires. So I find Shastani's comment rather in place, or at least I see it "unharmful". It's good in my opinion not to give too much into feelings or first sights and so on on the first day, because we don't know anything yet, basically. Of course accusing is needed, but not just headless.

My notes: Actually, this is the first forum I've played on where first day s happen with regularity (at least, I assume they do). On the others, they're usually discouraged.

Rikae defending herself:
How have I lied? Do you mean my in-character comments about Mac? I was...flirting...with...him. Capisci?

My notes: Is that how you spell the word pronounced "kapeesh"? It ought to be clear now that Rikae was just bantering.

Nogrod explaining his suspicion, and being caught in a lie (or misunderstanding)
Not so much that (as I said already) but with Gil. You accuse him of in-character accusations (alongside with Spm) and I don't think he has made any. On the contrary he has been pretty reasonable in his posting so far...

My notes: Gil was the one making accusations, not Rikae.

Rikae explaining:
Gil jumped on my comments about Mac; which were (I thought) blatently in-character/meta.

My notes: I thought so too... Nogrod is suspicious in my mind now.

Kitanna making a mistake:
It seems unlikely, but unless I've read the rules wrong the vampires have a seer, a ranger, and a hunter on their side, correct? All of those folk receive votes, as does the shade. That's four votes that the voter could lie about to the village.

My notes: It's possible that she just made a mistake, but I thought the rules were pretty clear.

Meneltarmacil stubbornly blaming Rikae:
Hmm, I must say that Rikae doesn't seem to be creating a lot of trust for me at the moment. She comes up with a meta-explanation and then tries to shift the blame onto Gil-Galad. Not that I'm inclined to think of Gil as absolutely , but given the erratic style he usually uses, he makes a good scapegoat.

I'll probably vote for Rikae toDay.

My notes: Rikae already explained that she wasn't the one accusing people with in-character banter, so I fail to see why you're still suspecting Rikae for that reason.

Diamond being a rebel:
Honestly, I don't really feel like announcing who I vote for.

My notes: Posting votes help the s, the MC said it was legal, I fail to see why you'd wish to hinder that.

Rikae casting suspicion:
OOC - rather, Menel thought me suspicious for suspecting Gil, though he admits Gil looks suspicious. This should send warning signals to anyone...but ...bah. Go ahead. Lynch me.
I am the weaver!

My notes: If Menel is suspicious of Gil, why is he suspicious of Rikae for also being suspicious of Gil?

Meneltarmacil defending himself:
Rikae, I didn't say that Gil looked particularly suspicious. He was simply an unknown on my list.

My notes: Didn't you say you "didn't think him particularly ", though? I could be wrong, I don't have that post quoted. I'll go back and look.

Roa, voice of reason - Post #60, Page 2 (more on this momentarily)

Brinniel, also suspecting Rikae:
For now, the only one who sticks out to me is Rikae. Her accusing behaviour is most disconcerting, and I find that she is rather...what's the word...jumpy, I guess is how I could describe it. Unless someone else suddenly turns suspicious to me, she remains my most likely voting candidate.

My notes: You'd be jumpy too, if suspicion was on you.

Sixth defending Gil:
This will sound like I'm defending Gil, but last game he accused me and others relatively shakily and it turned out he was . It is quite hard with him to tell if he is or what.

My notes: I haven't played here before, so I'm not up on posting styles, so if someone could confirm this for me, I'd appreciate it.

Eomer setting a trap:
Kitanna is a vampire. I am very suspicious of what she has done.

My notes: Clever of him.

Lomia stating my thoughts:
I don't see what this mess about Rikae is. I think she seems pretty normal and bantery. Noggie and Gil seem to be allied against her, and I find it very weird.

My notes: My thoughts exactly.

Mac, suspicious of Rikae defending herself:
Anyway, please, don't be suspicious of Rikae for flirting with me, I'd make me feel guilty.
The thing that does make me suspicious of her, however, is that she does little else than flirting, in-character things, self-defense and a flimsy case against Nogrod and Gil.

My notes: The case is a bit more than flimsy. Gil accused Rikae of accusing people with in-game banter, and Nogrod lied/made a mistake and accused Rikae of accusing Gil of accusing people with in-game banter.

Mac suspecting with no evidence:
Boro has already said it, and I agree: Legate is being too nice for my liking, too.

My notes: Why?

Mac suspecting with no evidence, continued:
I'm also perceiving some strange karma from Meneltarmacil.

My notes: Again, why?

Rikae falling in the trap:

"I think Eomer has a good point about Kitanna. I can't quite believe she would honestly make the mistake of thinking the gifteds were on the vampires' side. I would be interested in hearing more from her.
And as for you, Mac, I ought to suspect you for claiming I made a case against Nogrod when I did not.

My notes: Eomer doesn't have a point, it was a baseless accusation. Why'd you jump on it?

Rikae turning the tables:

As I recall, I said I didn't trust Esspiem and Gil. In retrospect, though, since Esspiem had self-defense to think of and Gil is almost always suspicious; Menel's reaction worried me more. I admit, I made a mistake in my response, translating "accusing people based on in-character bantering is suspicious" to "Gil is suspicious" in my mind, simply because that's what Gil did when he called me "very suspicious" for "suspecting two people" (Mac and Esspiem.)

My notes: The part about Gil being almost always suspicious doesn't really make a lot of sense, in context.

Mac apologizing for his mistake:

Ack! Gil and Espiem, I meant.

My notes: This was probably an honest mistake.

Eomer springing the trap:

Rikae mentioned that I had 'a good point about Kitanna.' But I didn't. I didn't have a single point about Kitanna. All I said was that she's a vampire and then, from nowhere, Rikae and Celuien are on her case. You, Lommy, can't understand their reasoning, and neither can I.

My notes: The fact that Rikae and Celuien both targeted Kitanna says that either they're looking for an victim, or they're following someone blindly. Since I hardly believe the latter, I have to stick with the former, at least for page 2.

[The Saucepan Man]

Hmm, I have just markedly revised my opinion of you, Shasta. While I don't agree with every point that you have made, you are clearly no bumbling newbie.

And I thought that this was a very well made point:

Just because you find something to be a good thing doesn't necessarily mean others do. I was simply stating my opinion, not telling others what to do or not do.While I tend to side with Boro on this particular issue (that accusations can be a good way of prompting telling reactions), it is worth bearing in mind that different people approach the game in different ways. Quite often, people (myself included) are far too willing to judge others by reference to what they would do in a particular situation.

[Kitanna]

I'm doing some serious catching up and I find something SpM said rather helpful at this point. It is about Rikae, who has been quite talked about thus far.

Secondly, and of greater concern to me, is her involvement in the Kitanna affair. When Eomer laid his apparent trap with his accusation of Kitanna, she said:
:
Originally Posted by Rikae
I think Eomer has a good point about Kitanna. I can't quite believe she would honestly make the mistake of thinking the gifteds were on the vampires' side. I would be interested in hearing more from her.
This brought her under suspicion for having jumped on Eomer’s unspecified accusation (and thereby fallen into his trap). In response to that suspicion, she said:
:
Originally Posted by Rikae
I should have said Celuien had a good point.
Yet Celuien only picked up on the Kitanna thing after Rikae had already done so. So how could Rikae have been responding to Celuien’s point when Celuien had not even made her point at that stage?

I wondered about this myself when I was reading through the thread earlier. How can she agree with Celuien, when Cel hadn't even said anything on the subject yet?

Then Rikae says:
I'll just be absolutely honest here, make of that what you will. When I read Eomer's comment on Kitanna, I looked back at her post to see what it was she was doing, and immediately saw that she was casting doubt on the theory that no villager would lie about their vote. I assumed this was Eomer's point and responded accordingly.
I fail to see how what Eomer said could be taken as a point. It was a statement, offering nothing more than some bold accusation with nothing there to back it up.
Also:
When Eomer claimed to have had no point, I remembered Celuien had articulated the same thing and, forgetting I came to the conclusion independantly of her, said it was her point.
What same thing? Celuien made a point or two, Eomer did not.

Kitanna, of course, actually argued against revealing votes.
Just like to say that was more due to my confusion than anything else. And also I didn't get the chance to vote.

I was operating under the assumption it was Eomer's point, not mine. When he said he had no point, it became Celuien's point in my mind; I never considered it my own, and honestly, I forgot that Celuien posted after me - I only remembered that she also agreed with the point I thought Eomer was making. I had to go back and look today to see who actually posted first.
I'm really failing to see a train of thought/point in this. You say it was Eomer's thought you agreed with, but then you say he had no point and so naturally it was Celuien's thought you agreed with. Despite her posting it after what you said.

How so? I'm becoming more and more suspicious of you, now. What is this? Everyone else can make mistakes but me? I'm afraid I'm just as fallible as the rest of us...
On the surface this appears to be more than a simple mistake. Mainly because you are making very little sense as to how you reached your conclusion.

That's what I have to say thus far. I plan on looking at others who have garnered a good deal of suspicions today (Legate/Shasta mostly) and perhaps a few others if time permits.

[Rikae]

I'm really failing to see a train of thought/point in this. You say it was Eomer's thought you agreed with, but then you say he had no point and so naturally it was Celuien's thought you agreed with. Despite her posting it after what you said.
I said I agreed with what I thought Eomer was saying; i.e, that your post (so easily forgotten now) looked somewhat suspicious. He then claimed he had no point; but Celuien had found the same things suspicious in your post that I had, and yes, for the third time, I forgot whether Cel or I said these things first. I had seen it as the point of Eomer's accusation, though he now claims it wasn't, and assumed Celuien did the same thing I did - that is, saw Eomer's post, looked at your post, and saw how fishy it was.
I've already explained this three times. You are blatently misrepresenting what I said now; the first post could be an honest mistake, but this makes me wonder if it was deliberate after all.

[Boromir88]

Ahh...Mac if you're a vampire we are in trouble, I like your point about Eomer. It's most probable that Eomer is an innocent, though we shouldn't take that as a known fact. Your reminder that Eomer is not 'known innocent,' is quite true...though I would tell you that for now I think Eomer is one of the most innocent looking members here and I find others to look more vampire-ish.

Is it just me or is there something mighty wrong about the way Nogrod and Espiem are argueing with each other? It doesn't leave me with the feeling of two innocents bashing it out.~Mac
No alarms are raised in me about SPM, he looks innocent to me. I'm a little less sure about Nogrod and haven't reached a decision on him yet.

Both Nogrod and Boromir88 are smart enough to have thought of using such subtle tactics, so I think at least one of them is likely a Vampire.~Menel
Nothing I do is influenced by Nogrod nor anyone else here. I'm alone and make my own decisions. You are correct that if I was a vampire I would do exactly that, but see something that looks like what a vampire would do often looks like what an innocent would do as well. I thought good points had been raised against Celuien, and I agreed. Though you will see that I consistently was on Legate's case yesterday, I voted for Legate, and I don't think that's going to change today.

Boro, I think you're a bit too accusing towards Shasta as he's a newbie.~Thinlo
Perhaps, you could be right. However, Legate's subtle defense of Shasta yesterday, and Shasta 'accidentally' leaving out Legate today looks more than simply coincidental to me.

As someone who's family history has been a wolf more than just once in the past, that is alarming behavior that shouts wolves! (or in this case vampires). The little defenses of partners and the very little interaction/failing to mention of partners.

Just because you find something to be a good thing doesn't necessarily mean others do. I was simply stating my opinion, not telling others what to do or not do.~Shasta
Quite true, no one has to agree with me. I call it as I see it. Maybe 'blind accusations' just cause confusion and make the vampires jobs easier...however I hardly think sitting around and just 'waiting' for some kind of evidence to appear on someone is hardly a better strategy. Therefor, getting people interacting, accusing, suspecting, has always been helpful to me, so I do it. I encourage others to do it and naturally anyone who suggests differently I think is a bit odd and needs to be looked into more.

I too am liking Gil-galad in this game. I've always found Gil to be someone who's got good instincts and can spot the enemy, but from his times in the past he looked random and I never really took him seriously. It's different now, and I kind of like it. I think we should all pay attention to his remarks here:
wow... now you say that you don't know why you voted me, just a friendly reminder, Every Werewolf game is different, the worst thing to do is to apply what you found out of people last game and bring it here, just about everyone acts differently in every game. Just because Glirdy(using you as an example buddy) was a wolf last game doesn't mean he is going to be a wolf again this game.

Edit: x-ed with everyone past Shasta's last post

[Kitanna]

There's quite a buzz around Shasta and Legate so far and while I was reading through today's posts I didn't see it. But I'd like to take a closer look at them now.

Shasta: His first few posts were little more than in character role-playing. Post #63 pertained to accusing people with no real basis. He then says this about Gil:
Also, Gil seems suspicious to me... Mostly, it's his blatant misreading of Rikae's bantering accusations. It was perfectly obvious to me, at least, that it was only a joke... He does seem, at first glance, to be trying to snare a scapegoat.
As far as Day 1 is concerned I personally can't see much that would make Shasta truly stand out. The only thing that made me think was about accusations and the small chance of catching a vampire. But even then that was more odd to me than alarming.
He started out today just commenting on Brinn's death and that she wasn't mentioned. His second post of today was what many found interesting (or from what I've gathered it looks that way). That was the post with the top suspects from yesterday. Boro pointed out a few people missing and I have to agree. What I really wonder about is the fact that SpM was included. He didn't seem to be very high on anyone's suspect list yesterday. I find the list he provided odd, but not enough to see Shasta as overly suspicious.

And it seems there has been some suspicion cast on Shasta so far. A few things he has said stand out, but I don't see him as overly suspicious.
I'd like to look at Legate as well since Shasta and Legate were paired together by a couple of people. I also want to take a look at Boro (for calling Shasta to my attention in the first place) and I'd really like to look at this new Gil (if only because I am utterly shocked by this new more active player). But I have a meeting right now.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Espiem was on my list because I remembered the Gil/Rikae/Espiem triangle from yesterday. I forgot that some people (i.e. Boromir, Gil) were suspicious of Legate, so I neglected to put him on the list. That's all.

As of right now, I'll probably be voting for Gil. That's not set in stone yet, though.

[Thinlómien]

Kitanna looks innocent-ish to me now. Even though I disagree with her I find her tone quite sincere. (Note: I'm definitely not considering her innocent!)

There's been a lot of talk about Legate and Shasta. While I don't deny the possibility of them being batmen mates, I don't think the connection between them is obvious in anyway. Vampire-Legate and Vampire-Shasta might have interacted in the way they did, but so could have innocent Legate and innocent Shasta, or innocent Legate and vampire-Shasta, or vampire-Legate and innocent Shasta... If it comes down to voting these guys, I'd rather go for Legate because of his utterly weird Sixth-vote yesterDay...

That means that at least one of our Vampires is an ethically high-level player with some confidence.I'm inclined to agree, (although I won't be basing my theories and suspects on that assumption)...

so i take it that you voted for me because i wasn't valuable to the group... ouch... you're breaking my heart here sixth... but what i jsut noticed is that he listed 2 other people... why those two hmmm? Sixth+Rikae+Nogrod= 3, there are 3 vampires on the lose.... do the math, it could be by chance or it could be sixth attempt to hide his comrades, luckily nobody paid any attention to this post... except me...I wouldn't read that too straightforwardly. Even though Sixth is relatively unexperienced (this is his second game I believe) I don't think he'd make such a naive mistake. I rather think that in his last game he found these two people smart and reasonable, which I don't wonder at all.

Maybe Durelin's the Shade? That was my first thought when I saw this post, although I can't think why the Shade would want to reveal themselves so early on... probably just banter, but it caught my eye.Knowing Durelin's style I think that was pretty normal of her. Early on, when there's little to say, she likes making in-character posts. And this time her character just happens to be a slightly unpleasant person.... (no offense, Dury :))

PS. Shasta: you should turn yourself invisible. If you don't know how to do it: go to your user cp, then go to options and there you should find an option of "turn to the invisible mode". :)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

...oh! Thanks, Thinlo, I'll get right on that. :D

[Nogrod]

Indeed. It might therefore be sensible for us not to leave our (stated) votes right up until the last minute. *Glares at Nogrod*
One could look at this differently as well. At least I think I acted reasonably by withholding my vote on Celuien - which I was going to make - as she was able to post her RL reasons for her incomplete reasoning on her vote which made me to back off from voting her. Sadly it came only twenty minutes before the deadline and so we were in too much a hurry there anyway.

Who would be confident in voting early, before everyone had have their chances to say their word on issues? The vampires...

We innocents care for us villagers staying alive and thence wish to wait for any information to the end to make our decisions with good grounds (RL excuses are another thing as one will have to leave when one will have to leave).

So please Spm, do focus on things that really matter... I mean it's quite frustrating when people make points on poor grounds (and Roa as well...). Come on and be a little more serious! We do not win this game by making postures of being witty but by actually picking up the wolves / vampires.

Making claims that do not make any sense don't further our cause but hinder it. But the vampires would love to do that and would cewlebrate with anyone who were lured by them.

So think people, think yourselves. Why would someone do something?

After all, the Vampires cannot actually vote. They can only pretend to, so the strategic value of last minute voting (for innocents) is somewhat lessened.
That is true. The strategic value is lessened, to be sure. But aren't you talking here like a Vampire from who's standpoint there is not so much "strategic value" any more? To me as an innocent there is everything to win and lose as we try to get the vampires and prevent the lynching of innocents. That's why any concerned innocent wishes to stay on as long as possible and try to make the difference as I tried yesterDay, unsuccesfully though, with trying to save Celuien...

So voting early is the mark of an innocent? No way Mr. Pan-man! Quite the opposite. You are intelligent enought to see that so why do you try to make the opposite point? Just asking...

And, despite just having done it myself, I am not too happy with the way you are seeking to make accusations by implication, without naming names.You're just marvellous... "I have done this but it actually makes X look pretty bad..." And to make it even more incredible, you comfortably do not mention the exact thing your sentence refers to... I can't defend anything you imply without first knowing what you mean but that surely looks nice, "Hey he got a point!"

I'm just wishing to see that one...

----

But after all that I must say that Spm is not my main suspicion right now. He's pretty high on my list but anyhow I might wish to see some others lynched before him.

Rikae I'm pretty wary about as well as Gil (so much that I love his new style!). And the newbie-stauts notwithstanding Shasta looks pretty suspicious too...

And all those not stating their votes yesterDay as well... I'll come back to them later as I have time for it...

And Legate... I would not stress his "niceness" as some here have done, but his carefulness. A vampire would love to look agreeable to everyone and the innocents need to do the suspecting and thence being controversial... He is doing the opposite and thence my doubts.

And well, lots of doubts... Durelin, Glirdy, Sleepy... you name it. Maybe, I hope, I have time to make some points on these sneakers later toDay. But now I think Lommy wishes to get a word in...

[Diamond18]

It might be worth noting that Di's stated vote came in before Nogrod set out his theory ...

Yes... I didn't mean to say that it was Nogrod's post which inclined me to vote for him. I know Nogrod's inclination to get rid of quiet players, it's something he's always been outspoken about. I was a bit upset to see Brinn die because I'd been betting on a Nogrod or a SpM-type player being off'ed. But her death does seem to point to a vamp(ires) who likes to keep an active village...cave.... Not the most astounding reason to vote, but better at least than my virtual einee-meenie-minie-moe reason to vote for Legate yesterDay.

Anywho, excuse my annoyed tone. I'm annoyed with my own forced lack of participation and not anyone for suspecting me. I just have this helpless feeling that everything I say or don't say is going to be utterly suspicious and I'm shooting myself in the foot. But I'm grabbing 15 minutes to try keeping up, at least. Brinn's death is the most solid bit of evidence as to Vampiric thought at the moment.

[Gil-Galad]

I'm getting mixed emotions right now.. alot of "I love the new gil, but i think i might lynch him off" it makes me feel that no matter what i do, people always want to lynch me....


but i will not be on till deadline probably... i must send my vote in now... too me Shasta's vote on me could be either one of Spite(i brought some attention to him this day)

i still beleive in the shasta/legate pair... if one of them is the vampire then the other has better chance of being one too... and after looking over both of hte peoples posts... i must say that Legate, if innocent, has a better rate of helping us out

so...

my vote sent in will be for ++Shasta

if Shasta = innocent, then Legate = innocent
if Shasta = vampire, then Legate = vampire


EDIT: this isn't a spite vote, it is merely the only way that i can figure out to solve this conundrum of the two at this moment

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Shasta rolled his eyes.

"You know, of the two of us, I think Gil has been acting more suspicious. All I did was forget to put someone's name on a list of suspected people, and suddenly I'm a vampire, apparently. I guess that's what I get for trying to be helpful."

He shrugged. "I'm still voting for Gil."

[The Saucepan Man]

Ah, Noggin, my friend. Seeking to make a case against me from nothing, are you? Then again, I have seen you do this as an innocent (and once, not so long ago, when I was hiding a guilty secret). That’s the problem with you. You would play the same way whether guilty or innocent. But know you this, my friend. I am innocent. And, if you are too, you would do well to trust my words.

For the record, I was not suggesting that we should state our votes early. I was merely pointing out that it might be better for us if we were not to leave it until the very last minute … :rolleyes:

And don’t fret, Di. I, for one, do not currently have you high on my list of suspects. I actually think that your obstinance over revealing your vote speaks in your favour. When I made my suggestion, I was thinking it unlikely that a Vampire would disagree with it.

And now something curious.

As I understand her, Kitanna has said that she did not vote yesterDay. Which leaves the “voting record” looking like this:

Di: Legate (Legate 1)
Celuien: Kitanna (Kitanna 1, Legate 1)
Menel: Rikae (Kitanna 1, Rikae 1, Legate 1)
Sixth: Gil (Kitanna 1, Rikae 1, Gil 1, Legate 1)
Gil: Rikae (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Legate 1)
Legate: Sixth (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Legate 1)
Rune: Menel (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 1, Legate 1)
Rikae: Menel (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 1)
Boro: Legate (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 2)
Lomiella: Celuien (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 2, Celuien 1)
Eomer: Celuien (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 2, Celuien 2)
Roa: Celuien (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 2, Celuien 3)
Aganzir: Celuien (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 2, Celuien 4)
Brinniel: Rikae (Kitanna 1, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 2, Celuien 4)
Nogrod: Legate (Kitanna 1, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 3, Celuien 4)
SPM: Kitanna (Kitanna 2, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 3, Celuien 4)
Mac: Legate (Kitanna 2, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 4, Celuien 4)
Sleepy: Rune (Kitanna 2, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 4, Celuien 4, Rune 1)
Xyzzy: Lomiella (Kitanna 2, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 4, Celuien 4, Rune 1, Lomiella 1)

No vote: Durelin, Shasta, Kitanna
No vote stated: Glirdy

Votes stated toDay are in italics, and I have put Di’s vote where she claimed it, chronologically.

I must admit that I had Kitanna down for the fifth Celuien vote. But she claims not to have voted. And my suspicion is that (whether he be a Vampire or not) Glirdy did not vote. So where did the fifth Celuien vote come from? And why have they lied (assuming that I am right about Glirdy)? Might it possibly be the Shade?

[Nogrod]

I'm getting mixed emotions right now.. alot of "I love the new gil, but i think i might lynch him off" it makes me feel that no matter what i do, people always want to lynch me....Don't take it that personally if someone says he disagrees with your points... and you're making some perfectly legitimate points as well... so at least I will not vote for you... toDay at least.

And this brings me to the subject. How about we look at those who fly under everyone's radar right now? There will be at least one vampire, possibly two in there. Yes I know I've said that at least one vampire is an active or influential one but that one can be caught later as that one needs to sping her/his web all the way and it will have faults in it anyhow in the end. And just shooting the active people would maim the game.

So how about paying more attention to Glirdan, Sleepy, Durelin, Diamond, Aganzir, Xyzzy, The Sixth... There are enough of these people that fly under the radar to hide a vampire or two within them.

If we wish to win, we should test each other and on the the basis of that either trust or distrust each other. Those who do not partake in the effort are people we can't trust and the sooner we get rid of those the better.

I do not mean that let's lynch all those who post little but let's concentrate our efforts to that direction for a while too. I mean why do people think as a given fact that those who post a lot are the vampires? That's an absurd inference!

It's easy to suspect people who post a lot and are involved. So any wise Vampire would hunker down...

Well, just a suggestion.

I'll try to make something of it after Lommy has taken her turn with the PC.

Edit: X'd with Spm...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Shasta smiled sheepishly.

"Um. This forum is different than the other forums I play on, where you just have to state your vote on the thread... could someone explain just how to vote for me? I feel like an idiot, but what can you do."

[The Saucepan Man]

I do not mean that let's lynch all those who post little but let's concentrate our efforts to that direction for a while too.Ah, it was only a matter of time ... ;)

The problem with those that you have listed is that there is (with the exception of Di, in my view) so little to go on.

I mean why do people think as a given fact that those who post a lot are the vampires? That's an absurd inference!Because sometimes they are ...

This forum is different than the other forums I play on, where you just have to state your vote on the thread... could someone explain just how to vote for me?Not so different. Normally, that is how games are played here. This is new territory for all of us. You vote by sending your vote either by e-mail to the g-mail address that Volo gave or by Private Message here on the forum to Volo and Kath. But be sure to post it here as well.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Shasta nodded. "I see. Well, in that case, I'll just Vote: Gil then, and off to send it."

[Thinlómien]

I must say I'm growing uneasy about Nogrod.

Just look at his few latest posts. He is throwing suspicion at all directions, accusing both loud people (like SPM) and silent people (those he mentions in his newest post).

Besides, I don't like his way of throwing Diamond, Durelin, Aganzir, Sixth, Xyzzy, Glirdy and Sleepy to the same category of people who he seemingly sees as non-contributors. While all these people have been relatively silent/inactive, I think it's not very wise from an innocent to throw them all to the same category.

In my opinion, while Aganzir, Diamond, Durelin and Sixth have been quite silent, they all have made some good points and contributed to the game. I see no point in accusing these people only based on their quietness, especially as there are still many hours till the deathline. (This does however not mean I wouldn't like to hear more of these people - on the contrary. Speak up! I know you're all smart people that could have something more to say!)

Nevertheless, I share Nogrod's concern over Xyzzy and especially Glirdan and Sleepy. If these guys are vampires, we're never going to catch them, since they are all too silent: none of them has said almost anything (with the slight exception of Xyzzy). Please, please guys, remember you're promised to devote some time to this game!

I wonder if there's any rule of removing people who do not post or vote...?

Lomiella yawns. "If you guys don't mind, I'll take a nap. See you when I wake up." She casts a sweet smile at her fellows and goes to find an unoccupied bed.

edit:xed with Shasta and Saucer

[The Saucepan Man]

Oh, and before I forget. I believe it was Menel who suggested that we might think a bit more about the Lynche Seer. There are my thoughts, mostly obvious, but worth considering nevertheless.

We should bear in mind that the Lynch Seer might be a Vampire although, in those circumstances, he or she is only likely to post a riddle if the lynchee is a fellow Vampire (and, even then, it would be very risky for them). It is possible, if the lynchee is innocent, that a Vampiric Lynch Seer might post a riddle if he or she is sufficiently certain that the lynchee will name an innocent. However, I think that a Lynch Seer who posts a riddle will, in most cases, be innocent.

It follows that it will be dangerous for a Lynch Seer to post the riddle (and this will be exacerbated given our agreed approach to post our votes, since these may be compared to the Lych Seer‘s figures the next Day, if the Lynch Seer survives the Night). For those of us who are ordos, however, this should not be a problem.

Obviously, an innocent Lynch Seer should only post the riddle if they are relatively confident that the lynchee is not a Vampire. Similarly, the lynchee whose riddle is posted, if innocent, should think carefully before naming a victim to take with them.

[The Saucepan Man]

Um, is it just me or do these statements seem somewhat contradictory:

It's possible that she just made a mistake, but I thought the rules were pretty clear.(emphasis added)

... could someone explain just how to vote for me?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Ooc: Be nice to me, I'm migraine-y and anxious about prom tomorrow. :(

[The Saucepan Man]

Be nice to me, I'm migraine-y and anxious about prom tomorrow.Oh well, in that case ... :rolleyes:

Er, no. I am afraid that you are on my suspect list, Shaz. :p

*Wanders off to search some more buildings*

[Durelin]

Agh, I am an under-the-radar-flyer, I know. I really don't mean to be. I tend to go unnoticed, even when I expect people to find me horribly suspicious looking...or at least annoying enough to lynch. :rolleyes:

Sorry about the first post - yes, in character. I've lately begun to enjoy RPing a total jerk, so I must say the love spilled over into this game. Of course I never keep up the in-character-ness for long, so no worries. Though I can't promise I won't be nasty. Just not that nasty. Or at least not so consistently.

Lommy - Slightly unpleasant?! That's all? Guess I should've tried harder. :p

Nice work, SPM...the votes aren't adding up already? The Shade might well be playing with our heads already. I think the Shade is a good mix of Cobbler and Werebear...lovely combination. I realized after that first post I made that my character really fit that role...there are other reasons I'm kinda sad I didn't get it, though...

I don't know if Shade-hunting is our concern right now. With no buddies and no goal except to stay alive, what trail can they leave?

At this point, I agree with you, Nogrod, about looking at the under the radar peoples. And not just because they have fewer posts I have to look through...no, of course not preciousss...nasties makes lieses abouts us.....

Di feels right to me. I guess because I understand where she's coming from. As you can see from my own playing right now, when I lack time, I am a completely worthless player. Aganzir has contributed and seems "genuine-ish" to me. I don't really know about the others, except for xyzzy. He worries me, both for his earlier comment and his flying-under-radarness. I need to look at his posts more....

Though, I just realized...how do we know there should have been 5 votes for Celuien? I think there's a vampire among the Legate voters...though anyone could be lying. Or, Legate and Cel could have been tied, but tie goes to whoever gets the most votes first, and it happened to be Cel (if the votes went in a similar order to how SPM has them listed that would seem likely). But hmm...I'm going to look specifically at who said they voted for Legate....

Di, Boro, Nogrod, Mac. What an interesting bunch...I need to read over their posts more. For now I think Di to be the most likely innocent of those bunch, particularly because she did not state her vote until toDay. I think as a vampire she would have at least said something about who she was voting for yesterDay (even if she was short on time), and I really don't think she would have said Legate toDay if she was lying...she could have stated something much safer, I think....

No, I'm not proofreading that^^. Deal.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Ooc: I think at this point everyone's on everyone else's suspect list, Espiem. xD

[Durelin]

Quite, Shasta...and in my opinion that's the only time things are really fun. :smokin:

[Nogrod]

I hadn't quite made a closer look at you Lommy before this - okay, 23 people to begin with - but this looks pretty bad. So you kind of wish to say that I'm suspicious because I make a suggestion of looking at another direction for a while but you still manage to pick a few from my list to look after as well...

Your last post doesn't only make me wary about you but of your list as well (those you wish to give the credit). Please remember what I said: So how about paying more attention to Glirdan, Sleepy, Durelin, Diamond, Aganzir, Xyzzy, The Sixth... There are enough of these people that fly under the radar to hide a vampire or two within them.
---
I do not mean that let's lynch all those who post little but let's concentrate our efforts to that direction for a while too. I mean why do people think as a given fact that those who post a lot are the vampires? That's an absurd inference!And you jumped on to say that I'm suspicious on these bases? So someone is suspicious if he doesn't stick with those who are suspected normally by the most people? And just to remind you all, the vampires (wolves) will love to leave the unposting / unvoting people live as their cause is tremendously aided by them. We villagers need to get rid of them as the vampires will not do it and thence those who do not post willl make an ever increasing threat to us as the game goes on. I have seen too many games this far to know this.

So just get rational you people!

Lying for ten Days in a row is a pretty hard work and probably the one doing it will make a mistake a moment or another. That one will get caught if there are independent players enough alive as the one fails.

So the greatest threat to us are those people we can't say anything about (those who do not post or who play safely). With them it's just like tossing a coin. In the endgame these people become terrifying. So as long as we have the chances, let's lynch them.

I know some of you say that I'm being brutal or vampirish. That's your right to think. But just give this another thought. I've seen games where the silents have won the game with their demonical ends. And in regards of those vocal players we tend to lynch more often than not we kill an innocent who would have been an asset to us.

Too frequently an innocent stands up against an innocent with pure intentions and one of them gets killed. That happens a bit too often.

The wolves smirk in the darkness...

And anyhow - I've said this a thousand times but feel I need to make this point again - a baddie does well to stay out of any controversy. It's the innocents who try to meddle with the things and to affect the game...

So just think again. Please.

---
Edit X'd with a a few and deleted a part that referred to Lommy's posting I thought was out of place in regards to the post as a whole....

[The Saucepan Man]

*Esspiem returns unseen and sneaks to a corner, where he busies himself unbundling from his great black cloak the various items that he has snaffled on his reconnaissance. For a short while, he is occupied in examining various small phials, before nodding his head and furtively dipping a small dagger into one of them. Of course, no one notices all this (;)) and mometarily he appears from nowhere and joins the group by the fire.*


I think at this point everyone's on everyone else's suspect list, Espiem.Then I shall let you know where I stand with everyone at the moment.

Gil: I hesitate to halt the voice that he has so recently found. He does have some good points from time to time. And his instincts have been known to be good in the past. I doubt that I’ll vote for him toDay unless something changes radically.

Rikae: A Vampire, surely. Accusing people based on banter, then very defensive about it. Throwing accusations around with little to back them. And I just don’t buy her expanation of that slip.

Boro: I am seeing nothing about him to worry me. Nevertheless, I do not underestimate him by any means.

Nogrod: Nogrod has done all the usual Nogrod things. The trinagulation theory. The concern about the quiet ones. The comments on sportsmanship. And yet there is something about his manner that I don’t like. He seems more … sneaky … than usual. Seems to be busying himself casting aspersions against everyone who suspects him. And then there’s that stoking of the Celuien bandwagon and voting for Legate thing yesterDay.

Eomer: I am by no means taking his innocence for granted as, like Boro, he should certainly not be underestimated. But I see nothing to worry me thus far, and his vote for Celuien speaks in his favour.

Lomiella: Another Celuien voter. Apart from her blind spot on Rikae, I see nothing to concern me about her.

Legate: Difficult to get a handle on. I understand what people are saying about his “reasonableness”, but I get the feeling that that’s the way he is, wherever his loyalties lie.

Aganzir: Other than the vote for Celuien, not a lot to go on. No major concerns at the moment.

Menel: Sometime he look suspicious. Sometime he make good point. Undecided.

Xyzzy: Not a lot to go on, but I didn’t like the possible attempt to “out” our Seer. Under observation.

Roa: A Celuien voter, so on my “innocent for now” list. Her contributions yesterDay looked reassuring to me. Again, though, I’m not underestimating her by any means.

Mac: Finding it difficult to get a reading on Mac at the moment.

Di: Funnily enough, I feel OK about Di. Her refusal to state her vote yesterDay was unlikely to be the approach of a Vamp.

Shasta: There are a number of things that make me wary of Shasta. Sometimes, he seems guileless, while he shows impressive insight at other times. Seemed to hide under a cloak of roleplaying yesterDay. Seems unduly defensive of Rikae toDay.

Kitanna: Still wary of that confusion over the Vampires yesterDay, which could well have been a bluff. But I am thinking it less likely by the minute that both she and Rikae are Vampires.

Sleepy: Nothing to go on at all. I thought that you were going to be more active toDay, Sleepy.

Durelin: I don’t see a Durelin Vampire. I see a Durelin being a Durelin. But I could be wrong.

Glirdy: Who?

Rune: Some Shade hints for sure, but perhaps too obvious. Other than that, has done a good job of doing very little to attract too much attention.

Sixth: Another one who I haven’t really got a handle on yet.

[The Saucepan Man]

Post count (prior to this one):

Gil-Galad 23
Nogrod 22
The Saucepan Man 21
Rikae 20
Shastanis Althreduin 16
Thinlómien 16
Boromir88 11
Volo 8
Eomer of the Rohirrim 8
Meneltarmacil 7
Macalaure 7
Rune Son of Bjarne 7
Roa_Aoife 7
Durelin 6
Legate of Amon Lanc 6
Diamond18 5
Aganzir 4
Kitanna 4
The Sixth Wizard 4
Celuien 4
Brinniel 3
xyzzy 3
Sleepy Ranger 2
Kath 1

Good lord, Gil! What has come over you? :D

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Rikae: A Vampire, surely. Accusing people based on banter, then very defensive about it. Throwing accusations around with little to back them. And I just don’t buy her expanation of that slip.

I'd just like to point out that we've discussed this, Rikae did not accuse anyone based on banter. Gil accused Rikae of accusing... I believe it was Mac or you, Espiem, of being a vampire based on your roleplaying post, but I thought we'd ascertained that Rikae was just bantering herself...

[The Saucepan Man]

I'd just like to point out that we've discussed this, Rikae did not accuse anyone based on banter.I refer the honourable gentleman to my post #144 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=519461&postcount=144)

Shasta, why the defensiveness over Rikae? Surely it's not as simple as Rikae, Nogrod and Shasta ...?

[Nogrod]

Shasta, why the defensiveness over Rikae? Surely it's not as simple as Rikae, Nogrod and Shasta ...?A good point. Although the trhreesome is wrong anyways.

And as you're not to believe my word on it (now why would you?) just ask yourself the question would anyone sane enough speak and act (=vote) like I have done if I were a Vampire? There are so many easier ways to accomplish the thing...

Should I make the list now? Maybe I should. Just a moment...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I don't think I'm being overly defensive, when the only evidence against Rikae is overshadowed by better evidence on other people.

Besides, I like her username. :P

[The Saucepan Man]

Though, I just realized...how do we know there should have been 5 votes for Celuien?Eomer, the Lynch Seer last Night, stated that Celuien had five votes. Although I do not discount the possibility that he was lying (and thus Vampiric), I am at a loss to see what good would it do him (if a Vampire) to paint an innocent's vote as a lie.

And as you're not to believe my word on it (now why would you?) just ask yourself the question would anyone sane enough speak and act (=vote) like I have done if I were a Vampire?Quite honestly, yes. Taking into account the circumstances prevailing when you stated your vote, a claimed vote for Legate was a "safe" one at the time claimed.

Should I make the list now? Maybe I should. Just a moment...I look forward to it ...

[Kitanna]

So, I don't have as much time as I would like. And I will most likely be sleeping when Day ends so I'm going to e-mail my vote soon. At the moment it looks like I'll be voting for Rikae because I've had a chance to look at her better than anyone else.
I don't like the feeling of her points about Eomer from yesterday. And her jumpiness from yesterday makes me worried. So I will most likely vote Rikae, but if I find something while reading and I change, I'll post here.

[The Saucepan Man]

I don't think I'm being overly defensive, when the only evidence against Rikae is overshadowed by better evidence on other people.So you really think that, having picked up on Eomer's accusation of Kitanna, she suddenly forgot that it was Eomer's point that had prompted this and innocently convinced herself that it was Celuien's (subsequent) post that had prompted it instead?

[The Saucepan Man]

Although the trhreesome is wrong anyways.Ah, but since Durelin accused me of posting like you, I had to come up with a triangulation ... ;)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Well, I kind of see it along the lines of something I actually did a while back... I was typing some evidence or something, and meant to type Nogrod... but on the screen, I had a post of Thinlo's that I was looking at, and I typed Thinlo's name instead of Nogrod... isn't that the kind of slip Rikae's claiming? If not, I may have misunderstood...

[The Saucepan Man]

I was typing some evidence or something, and meant to type Nogrod... but on the screen, I had a post of Thinlo's that I was looking at, and I typed Thinlo's name instead of Nogrod... isn't that the kind of slip Rikae's claiming? If not, I may have misunderstood...No, it's not like that at all. Go back and have a look, and take note also of her attempts to explain herself toDay.

Although she did make the wrong quote attribution in #191 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=519527&postcount=191), which is something I did twice when guilty, as Lomiella will no doubt recall.

I suppose it is possible that it was an innocent slip, but I'm finding it hard to see it as such.

[Nogrod]

I suspect: Rikae, Legate, Lommy

Uneasy about: Kitanna

I do not trust but think they might be innocent: Spm & Roa

I feel innocent: Mac & Boro

Tend to see as innocents: Durelin, Diamond, Aganzir

Am wary about with no proof or a case: Gil-Galad , Shastanis Althreduin, Eomer of the Rohirrim. Meneltarmacil, The Sixth Wizard

The too obvious shade: Rune Son of Bjarne should be dealt with later...

The enigmas who don't seem to wish to help: Xyzzy, Slepy, Glirdy.

[The Saucepan Man]

Reasons, my dear Noggins?

[Roa_Aoife]

You know, Nogrod, I really wouldn't have pressed the whole thing if you hadn't kept bringing it up. But since you insist:

I hadn't any case against Rikae yesterday (RL).

Is that so? Post #42 mentions Rikae in almost every sentence, and though you don't state at first that she's acting strangely, it bears the distinct marks of a lawyer slowly building up to a direct accusation, which in fact, the post does. Here are some excerpts:

she also came quite close to lying - basically she did it. That's always pretty suspicious.

The point that follows this is Rikae bantering IN CHARACTER with Mac. You even admit that this is the case, yet you still accuse her of lying.

Her suspicion on Gil seems even stranger. Gil suspects her to be sure but retaliation isn't the way a smart villager would react - and Rikae surely is smart. She says:

You then quote Rikae stating that Gil is the one accusing people based on in-characterness. You also state that Gil had been doing no such thing, when his very accusation of Rikae is doing just that. Again you accuse her of lying when she is not.

Also, I find it interesting that you say "retaliation isn't the way a smart villager would react" when you seem quite insistent on suspecting those who suspect you. (Myself, SPM, and some others)

Then:

I wouldn't like to lose Rikae either, but would be very interested in hearing some explanations on why she downright lied to us...

"Downright lied"? If this isn't a case, I don't know what is. You are the only one lying here, Nogrod.


You know, this whole the vampires don't get to vote thing really isn't an advantage to the villagers. It might be a little bit of a disadvantage for the vampires, but at the same time it helps keep them extremely clean - we can't really get much dirt on them based on their votes, because they're not really voting. About the only warning signs we'd get is if the stated votes added up give a different result than the kill, and the chances of that happening at this point are very slim. And still then we'd only know that there's almost definitely a vampire in a certain voting group....

This post bothers me. The bolded points are misinformation about our voting situation, and they look designed to discourage revealing our votes, without blatantly doing so.
The Vampires not voting is an advantage for the village- they can't vote to save each other, and they can't force the lynch of an innocent.

If everyone states their votes, we can get dirt on the vampires. We'd have their "cases" and the knowledge of who they claimed to vote for, and when they claimed to do so.

We wouldn't just have the chance that the votes don't add up, which is not as slim as this post made it sound, but we also have the times when they add up. And further more, we can look at those who consistently do not vote for the Lynchee, especially those you vote at the end when it's fairly obvious who will be lynched.

As for the last one, we'd have more knowledge from that than we would in a game where the vampires can vote. In those games, we only have a best guess for which voting group the werewolves are hiding in. Further more, by cross referencing with groups where things did add up, we can start eliminating names.

I didn't state my vote because I didn't vote.

Care to explain why?

Of course there's no way to prove that.

Well, there's one way....


One could look at this differently as well. At least I think I acted reasonably by withholding my vote on Celuien - which I was going to make - as she was able to post her RL reasons for her incomplete reasoning on her vote which made me to back off from voting her. Sadly it came only twenty minutes before the deadline and so we were in too much a hurry there anyway.

This is a fair point, but I would like to reiterate that people who consistently wait till the last minute and vote for an unlikely lynchee should be looked at very closely.

I mean it's quite frustrating when people make points on poor grounds

That's funny coming from you.

So think people, think yourselves. Why would someone do something?

You mean like, "Why would someone encourage others to not listen to the people who have cases against him?"

Rikae I'm pretty wary about as well as Gil (so much that I love his new style!). And the newbie-stauts notwithstanding Shasta looks pretty suspicious too...

Why Gil, so suddenly? And isn't convenient that you are suddenly suspicious of Shasta (who is being much more reasonable today) when he just stated that your points against Rikae made you look suspicious?

I hadn't quite made a closer look at you Lommy before this - okay, 23 people to begin with - but this looks pretty bad. So you kind of wish to say that I'm suspicious because I make a suggestion of looking at another direction for a while but you still manage to pick a few from my list to look after as well...

And again you suspect someone who supects you!

Rikae: .... Accusing people based on banter

I hate to nitpick, but as I've just been explaining this to Nogrod, I feel I have to remind you that Rikae's only "accusation" based on incharacterness was also incharacter, and therefor not an accusation at all. All the mis-information floating in this thread is really worrisome.

I'll be back in a little bit with another post.

EDIT:Cross posted with alot

[Nogrod]

Reasons, my dear Noggins?Oh my. It's almost four AM here... well I see what I can do... but do not wait for any full analyses on 21 people right now...

[The Saucepan Man]

I hate to nitpick, but as I've just been explaining this to Nogrod, I feel I have to remind you that Rikae's only "accusation" based on incharacterness was also incharacter, and therefor not an accusation at all.I refer the honourable lady to my post #218 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=519565&postcount=218) and to the post referred to therein.

I really don't understand why so many people appear to be rallying round Rikae when, to my mind, she has clearly dissembled on at least two occasions so far. Roa, I agree with much of what you have said, but why do you feel so confident (as it appears) about Rikae? Is it simply because Nogrod made a case against her yesterDay? I would note that, on the basis of what has passed, it is not beyoind the bounds of possibility that both are Vampires. Noggie made strong cases against both Celuien and Rikae yesterDay, and yet ended up claiming to vote for Legate.

Oh my. It's almost four AM here... well I see what I can do... but do not wait for any full analyses on 21 people right now...Hey, where's your spirit, man? Brief reasons will do for now ...

[The Sixth Wizard]

Stuff that Rikae did:

14 ~ Doesn't trust Esspiem or Mac.

18 ~ Nothing.

22 ~ More RPing rubbish. Doesn't mind getting suspected by SpM.

31 ~ "I always think that everything could be a trick. Which is why I'm still alive."

37 ~ Says we shouldn't accuse people on in-character banter. Which is basically all she has been posting till this post.

44 ~ Lalala...

46 ~ Defends herself vs. Gil.

55 ~ "It seems I've stirred things up a bit. Which was exactly my intention... I tested the waters ... I've done what I can, at this early hour, to reveal the wolves....

56 ~ More 'go ahead, lynch me' stuff.

70 ~ "I think Eomer has a good point about Kitanna. I can't quite believe she would honestly make the mistake of thinking the gifteds were on the vampires' side. I would be interested in hearing more from her.
And as for you, Mac, I ought to suspect you for claiming I made a case against Nogrod when I did not. "

80 ~ Now suspicious of Kitanna. I think she misread Kit's post.

82 ~ Now not jumping to conclusions.

84 ~ Just explaining summat to Lommy.

93 ~ Now giving Kitanna benefit of the doubt, and going against Menel, claims it's not a spite vote.

97 ~ "I looked at her [Kitanna's] post to see what she was "doing", and indeed, it looked fishy. If we had a cobbler, I'd say it looked cobblerish, but I don't think we do."

101 ~ Votes for Menel.

Finis. :D

[Meneltarmacil]

I appear to have misread Eomer's post. He simply stated that Kitanna was a Vampire in Post 67 just to see what reactions he would get. Interestingly, as he observes, Rikae and Celuien jump on Kitanna after his "suspicion" is mentioned.

What to make of Eomer's strange action? We know Celuien is innocent. Kitanna, Eomer, and Rikae are unknowns, though Rikae has been a suspect of mine.

Possibilities:
1. Eomer is innocent. He was not actually suspicious of Kitanna, and was trying to flush out Vampires. This is possible, but I don't think putting a likely innocent at risk is something that another innocent would do. However, Eomer's predecessors from past ages have been known to be a little ruthless from time to time.

2. Eomer is innocent, and genuinely suspicious of Kitanna. This is alomst certainly not the case, as he claims that he "didn't have a single point about Kitanna" in post 79. I highly doubt an innocent would deny an actual suspicion.

3. Eomer is a Vampire and was trying to set Kitanna up to be killed. No. See above.

4. Eomer is a Vampire, and Kitanna is another Vampire. Doubtful, but Eomer would probably be willing to sacrifice a fellow Vampire if it suited his interests. His predecessors from times past have done similar things. However, casting suspicion on a fellow Vampire and hen washing one's hands of it seems a little too sloppy to me.

There are problems with every hypothesis I've come up with, but I think 2 and 3 can be eliminated. As for 1 and 4, there are not many clues to go on.

Eomer, were you honestly expressing suspicions of Kitanna back there, or were you just trying to see how people would react?

[Durelin]

I do not have much time, but... :rolleyes:

Roa - I didn't vote yesterDay because I didn't have time. I said so on the Admin thread, too....at any rate, I tend not to go into explanations about RL stuff because to tell you the truth, I find that rather annoying that people harp on that as a defense (no offense...though it would help I guess if we weren't all concerned about how silent or not silent people are). But here's my story:

First, the Day start/end time is at 11 am for me. I'm in school from 8:00 am to 3:00 pm, approximately. Second, in the evening before the end time of 11 am the next day, I was busy doing homework and then helping my dear mother with a evening science activity thingy at her work. I was being a good child. Contributing to my community. On a Wednesday evening. Saintly, I tell you. I am clean.

I'm tempted to not state my vote just to bother people, because this whole "omg-people!-the-voteses-matters-and-the-fact-that-anyone-can-lie-doesn't-matter!" is getting on my nerves.

I think it's a very easy campaign for a vampire to pick up on and look very innocent, because their advocating a very "innocent-looking" cause. And doing it very loudly makes people, particularly those who support this "cause" (who I'd say are in the majority), sympathize with them.

In the post Roa quoted from, I wasn't advocating not stating votes...in fact, in the same post I assured everyone that I would state my vote. But whatever.

And yes, I still think people should honestly state their votes if we're going to stand a chance, but naturally if something's getting shoved down my throat I'm not going to take it well.

Sauce - Thanks for clearing up the 5 votes thing...forgot that was in Eomer's post.

[Nogrod]

Hey, where's your spirit, man? Brief reasons will do for now ...Thanks mate! :D

But the only thing I wish to say right now is: cool down Roa. You are either making a big mistake or then you earn to die as a vamipre you are... your case anyhow is just built on sham.

Your case is indeed just idiotic. And I know you've played on earlier occasions just counting on that - that there are enough players who don't think themselves and you can sway their votes. If you have gathered that support then good for you, but at least now (as in the previous game) you're barking at the wrong tree... So might you just learn if you're innocent? Otherwise I could understand your point well enough.

So just give me / us one reason why I would have played as I have done were I a Vampire! There is a difference between playing the baddie and the goodie and you know that. Trying to make a case on me then looks like vampiery. Nothing else can explain this to me then (you said you were insulted by the fact that I dared to suspect you slightly yesterDay. I can't see you as petty as to make a retaliation on that reason... so then your "retaliation" is of a villanous nature...). Sorry, but you're being revealed...

You propose that we should be assured that argumernts can win the game so give us one then and do not hide behind far-fetched suppositions and speculative ideas! Quit making these "a vampire might have done this" things and give some evidence you're so happy to rely on at the level of rhetorics. You play only on the level of rhertoric and have nothing solid to go for - even though you call for optimism about the solid things we have... Cut the crap, please. And don't fool us any more.

It's easy to build things on "X might have done this were he a Vampire".

I'll do one for you just for the fun of it tomorrow (RL).

Think Roa, think... Don't be stupid.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Do you honestly expect me to read throught all of that ? If you do you will be very disapointed. . . I am just going to make a few comments now and save my brilliant/imaginative post until tomorrow.

I fail too see what is suspicious about that post of Rune's. Xyzzy, have you considered the possibility that this feigning mysterious (I say feigning because I don't find Rune any more mysterious than anyone else here) might be a part of Rune's character in this game?
YATZY!

oh and SPM unless I am mistaking it was me who wanted peoples wievs on the lynch seer.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Of course, there's the fact that you seem to be relying a lot on the following:

"Why would I act as I am acting if I was a Vampire?"

This opens up a whole logic loop:

You could be relying on this because you're acting they way you are because you ARE a vampire, and are relying on the above statement to make people think you're innocent.

I don't think I stated that the way I wanted to... maybe I'll be more articulate later.

Edit: x'd with Rune

[Gil-Galad]

Shasta rolled his eyes.

"You know, of the two of us, I think Gil has been acting more suspicious. All I did was forget to put someone's name on a list of suspected people, and suddenly I'm a vampire, apparently. I guess that's what I get for trying to be helpful."

He shrugged. "I'm still voting for Gil."


sigh...


its not the list that made people suspicous of you, it is what your other posts have been... granted your suspicous list did indeed lack alot and was mistaken, and that di propel you into teh spotlight today

Wow... also i do have the seventh highest post count on the downs too...


"Why would I act as I am acting if I was a Vampire?"

this opens up the whole "flying under the radar" paradox as well... t is simply what i did in my first games, act confusing as Mandos Halls (teehee) and make people ignore you long enough till they are forced to get rid of you


so far only two votes have been cast, and i am starting to debate to myself about my two suspicous ones... Shasta or Rikae... but it looks like Rikae is recieving enough judgement today so maybe one of those two will be voted off...

oh and liking someones name isn't the best reason to defend for someone...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I realize that, that was just my frivolous reason. Although I'm starting to rethink my position on Rikae, given that Espiem pointed me in the right direction about her mistake....

I still think you're more suspicious though. :P

[Gil-Galad]

I still think you're more suspicious though. :P


if you have the time then look through all 25 of my posts and present a post of why i am suspicous? because i would really like to know why you have such a huge case againest me

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I actually don't, right now; I need to take a bath before mom starts the dishwasher. Gimme a couple hours (unless Night's already started), and I will. :)

[Gil-Galad]

well better save it for next day, for i must be off tonight and i won't e able to cehck till night begins...

[The Sixth Wizard]

Sorry, I haven't been very active today, because it was (duh duh duh duh...) my Birthday. I will be more active tomorrow, though I was reading the posts and everything today.

I think I'll vote for...

[The Sixth Wizard]

I still suspect Rikae, Nogrod seems innocent as he is playing a bit like last game. Roa actually looks a bit strange, the rest I don't know. My GOD I'm undecided. I guess I should go for the most suspicious, Rikae.

I agree with:

Accusing people based on banter, then very defensive about it. Throwing accusations around with little to back them.

So my vote will go with Rikae.

And I better say summat to Gil...
Wow... also i do have the seventh highest post count on the downs too...

Yet you still haven't learned how to use the shift key! ;) I only voted for you yesterday because I thought it a better idea than Rikae. I'm more suspicious of Rikae today though.

[Macalaure]

So that's how it looks like when both Nogrod and SPM suffer from insomnia. :p


Anyway:

Though you will see that I consistently was on Legate's case yesterday, I voted for Legate, and I don't think that's going to change today.Boro, you are aware that you wrote that at a time when Legate hasn't even posted (and still hasn't)?


Kitanna's case of Rikae looks a little knee-jerk to me. Though I'm definitely not saying Rikae is innocent, I'd like to echo Roa and say that the reasons against her that have been given so far don't look too convincing. In fact, they made me rethink my opinions on those who stated them.


Concerning SPM and Nogrod, I'm leaning more towards SPM being the evil one out of the two. They both make bad cases against Rikae, but Nogrod's seems more confused while SPM's has a sneakiness to it.

I wonder why SPM calls Nogrod's vote a safe vote. With so many votes not given, the fake votes of the vampires and the course of the suspicions near the deadline, I too thought we had a good shot at lynching Legate.

And what was the point behind SPM's post count?

I don't want to start a pointless Lynch Seer debate, but I disagree with this:

We should bear in mind that the Lynch Seer might be a Vampire although, in those circumstances, he or she is only likely to post a riddle if the lynchee is a fellow Vampire (and, even then, it would be very risky for them). It is possible, if the lynchee is innocent, that a Vampiric Lynch Seer might post a riddle if he or she is sufficiently certain that the lynchee will name an innocent. However, I think that a Lynch Seer who posts a riddle will, in most cases, be innocent.

It follows that it will be dangerous for a Lynch Seer to post the riddle (and this will be exacerbated given our agreed approach to post our votes, since these may be compared to the Lych Seer‘s figures the next Day, if the Lynch Seer survives the Night). For those of us who are ordos, however, this should not be a problem.

Obviously, an innocent Lynch Seer should only post the riddle if they are relatively confident that the lynchee is not a Vampire. Similarly, the lynchee whose riddle is posted, if innocent, should think carefully before naming a victim to take with them.
Unless a vampire (who has a better idea about who the actual lynchee is than innocents do!) has a reason to fear for himself or one of his companions, I don't see why they shouldn't post the riddle. For them it's nothing but a calculated risk to have another innocent killed.
If the lynched is a fellow vampire on the other hand, then I'm sure the evil Lynch Seer won't let him/her have a kill, because it would make the evil Lynch Seer himself look bad.
If Volo chooses the Lynch Seer random, then it's trivially much more probable that he is innocent...
And in order to have a suspicion on whether the lynched one is evil or not, the Lynch Seer will first have to figure out who the lynched individual was. If the voting is close, that's guesswork, because the riddles don't seem to be too simple.

[Thinlómien]

Happy birthday, Sixth! :)

I'm growing slightly worried about Mac. He seems to be slipping under everybody's radar. Nobody's suspecting him, nobody's almost even talking about him. How is this possible? I understand people let Celuien-voters slip under their radar at this phase, but Mac is a Legate-voter - a group I'm fairly sure at least one vampire is hiding in. I don't think Mac is very suspicious, but I'm worried of him slipping under the radar, especially as he's been more silent than usually - is he trying to contribute to his slipping under the radar by this?

It is possible, if the lynchee is innocent, that a Vampiric Lynch Seer might post a riddle if he or she is sufficiently certain that the lynchee will name an innocent.I agree here. And I think a vampire lynch seer might post the riddle even if s/he wasn't even sure who the lynchee was to take with her/him - we've seen backstabbing and double-bluffing wolves before, haven't we? So I don't think it's very wise to draw conclusions from the lynch seers' actions, or at least one must be careful when doing it.

So you kind of wish to say that I'm suspicious because I make a suggestion of looking at another direction for a while but you still manage to pick a few from my list to look after as well...No, I don't. I think it's a good thing to take into account and (to some level) suspect everyone. It just seems to me that you're quite forcefully attacking at all directions yet not concentrating on making a solid case against anyone. Doesn't look very innocent to me.

(And by the way, Nogrod, I've not said let's not lynch the silent people. In fact, if I don't have any serious-ish suspects and there's no rule about modfire, I will most probably vote some inactive player - Sleepy, Glirdy or Xyzzy..)

Nogrod and Roa both worry me. I mean, they're both smart, reasonable players. However, in this game they've both been making more or less weak cases and then accused each other of making weak cases. I don't think this is very normal of them. And I can't help thinking that a vampire-Noggie and a vampire-Roa might co-operate in this way...

Apart from her blind spot on Rikae, I see nothing to concern me about her.Well, to state it, I don't find Rikae particularly innocent. Her weird responses to your questions toDay do make me wary of her. Yet I don't see why are you and some other people so very suspicious of her. I think she's worth watching, but I don't think she screams a vampire.

And as you're not to believe my word on it (now why would you?) just ask yourself the question would anyone sane enough speak and act (=vote) like I have done if I were a Vampire? There are so many easier ways to accomplish the thing...Yes. Anyone who's been a baddie at once knows that it's not a simple thing and anyone who's played werewolf a lot *coughyoucough* should know that baddies do the most astonishing and unreasonable- and unsafe-seeming things.

Menel, in your post #233 you seem to think that Eomer said that he had not case against Kit means that he did not suspect her. I think that's not a very good conclusion. One can be suspicious of someone without making a case against him/her. This was only to point a fault in Menel's logic - personally I interpret Eomer's posts the way he wasn't (at leats a lot) suspicious of Kitanna himself.

edit: xed with Mac - glad to see him around

[Thinlómien]

Tha day's to end quite soon, many people have been very silent and I have almost no clue who to vote. Nice, eh?

SPEAK UP SILENT PEOPLE!

[Rikae]

Yes please. And, if I could ask a small favor...would the people who intend to vote for me please post here before they do?

[Rikae]

All right, I guess that pretty well outed me anyway...

I am the seer.

I only have an ordo now, let me have one more dream (if the ranger is agreeable).

I'm voting for either Legate or SPM most likely.

[Thinlómien]

Damn. Somehow this situation seems all too familiar! :(