Trivia match?

[The Might]

I'm posting this here because I am curious to see if anyone would be interested in such a thread.
What I have in mind is a triva match between 2 or more teams.
One person moderates it all, asks trivia questions and the teams try to find an answer. They must find the answer and a quote from a work to prove it in a specific ammount of time and then PM this to the mod.
After several rounds the team with most correct ones wins, in case of a tide other questions can decide the winner.
I am not sure how many should be in each team, that's why I first wanted to see if anyone would like to take part in this.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

If there will be any interest, I'm surely not going to miss such an event. ;)

[Thinlómien]

I'm not plunging head first to it, but I might be persuaded quite easily... ;)

[The Might]

Nice to hear that.
If anyone would be interested in modding the match (meaning choosing questions and keeping the score) then please do that.
Maybe when we have 4 on each team we can already start...of course if so many wish to join.

[Gil-Galad]

alright i'm in... hopefully legate and might won't be on the same team or else we will never get their riddles...

invite Rune too, he would enjoy this

[Finduilas]

If you don't get enough players, I'll join. But if you do, then you can leave me out.

[The Might]

Well, only 5 for now, I would have wanted at least 7, 3 in each team and one moderator.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

If you don't get enough players, I'll join. But if you do, then you can leave me out.

I hope that with you, we get enough players. Don't worry, even if there were more people interested, we'll find some space - we can always make three teams ;)

[Macalaure]

If the quotes don't go as deep as HoMe (I don't have them with me at the moment), I'm in. :)

[Finduilas]

If the quotes don't go as deep as HoMe, I'm in.

Must say the same. I haven't read any but the beginning of The Treason of Isengard. :o

[The Might]

No, I wasn't consdering it anyway since many don't own the books, and you can't really blame them for that since many aren't interested in the series.

No only LotR, Silmarillion, UT and the Hobbit. I'm sure in each team at least someone will have them all. :D

[Gwathagor]

Sounds fun.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

If I'm not mistaken, that would be 7 (if Gwathagor's post means "yes" and if we take care of "persuading Lommy quite easily" - in other words, I persuade thee, Lommy :) ). We can wait if more people show, but the organisation things can be already prepared...

[The Might]

Of course...well the whole thing is pretty simple.

We need two teams and a moderator that will ask the questions (he needs to have all the 4 books) and then confirm the answers and the quotes that support them.
I guess we first need the moderator.
Then the teams can be chosen, I guess in such a way so that they are as equal as possible and that all are happy with their colleagues.
The moderator then PMs each member of each team the question at the same time (you can send PM to multiple users).
Then the teams have a certain amount of time (I'm thinking 48hrs to come up with the answer AND the quote that supports it).
The answer and the quote must be sent as a PM to the moderator in time, otherwise they don't count.
The PM then changes the score; each team receives

0 points for a wrong answer,
1 point for a correct answer, but no quote,
2 points for a correct answer and a correct quote.If by chance the team gives another answer that however also is correct (that's a mistake by the mod, but can happen) they still receive the points.

After a specific number of questions the team with more points wins. If there is a tide we will have a sudden death thing, the first team that gets more points then the other wins.

I guess it's all pretty simple, if anyone has questions then please ask.

PS: team members are to first agree upon an answer before they PM it, however should a member send an answer that the others don't agree with it will count, so please first decide together what you'll answer

I guess PMs are a good way to talk to each other, or using an IM.

As far as the moderator position is concerned I have no problem doing that.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Sounds fine. All right, in that case everything we need is just to assemble the teams and for the Mod to think of the questions.

So, I suppose with the quotes it will look like that e.g. the question will be "who was the owner of Andúril" and we answer "Aragorn" and provide for example the quote where he draws the sword before Éomer and claims that it is his.

And as for the Mod post, if you were rather interested in playing, I could take it instead of you. Whatever you wish.

[Finduilas]

Does UT stand for Unfinished Tales?

[Thinlómien]

Does UT stand for Unfinished Tales?Yes.

Okay, Legate, your masterful skills of speech convinced me. :rolleyes: :p Now I only need to steal my dad's Silmarillion and The Hobbit (I have them only in Finnish) and possibly borrow an English UT from the library.

Whoever is going to mod should use their consideration and try to make the teams even - probably do some studying in the quiz room to see how well people have generally done in there and how much knowledge they have. In my opinion it's more fair than making random teams.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, Legate, your masterful skills of speech convinced me. :rolleyes: :p
I'd wonder if not; I learned that from the great Saruman himself. ;)

Whoever is going to mod should use their consideration and try to make the teams even - probably do some studying in the quiz room to see how well people have generally done in there and how much knowledge they have. In my opinion it's more fair than making random teams.

Definitely. I'm not sure about how far Mac's skills go (but the "black horses" are often dangerous), but as far as I know Gil has been a long-time champion in the Quiz Room so maybe he should be the one to balance (with all modesty) either me or TM. Finduilas had some good, but not much long, deal of participation in the place. Lommy is, as far as I know, quickwitted one, and the only thing that discerns her from Gil is that she was not participating as often or as long as him. About Gwathagor I don't know much, so that's probably another player with the advantage of being largely unsuspected of how far his skill goes.

[Thinlómien]

Lommy is, as far as I know, quickwitted one, and the only thing that discerns her from Gil is that she was not participating as often or as long as him.And know some of the things less by heart and possibly might have minor language problems but as I'm clearly not the only non-native English speaker I doubt that matters - I just happen to know the quotes and such far better in Finnish than in English.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

And know some of the things less by heart and possibly might have minor language problems but as I'm clearly not the only non-native English speaker I doubt that matters - I just happen to know the quotes and such far better in Finnish than in English.
That's normal I guess among the non-native English speakers. The only problem may occur if the question is operating with something that's different (though slightly) in the translation. But as you said, the non-native English speakers are actually majority among the players, so as far as this goes, I won't bother with it.

[The Might]

Well, I'm not going to accept quotes in Finnish, but since I am sure each team will have someone who has the books in English, you'll be able to provide the English one.

About the teams I'm sure we'll find a way to make it all ok.

Umm...I'll moderate this time.

What about Legate, Finduilas and Macalaure on one side and Thinlomien, Gil-Galad and Gwathagor pn the other...?

[Thinlómien]

Should there be a rule about using Encyclopedia of Arda, Wikipedia and Tolkien guides? I don't think using them would be "fair", but I guess that depends on are the questions going to be such that they can be answered only with an encyclopedia. Also, there are two problems with banning encyclopedias etc. First, we just have to trust each others' word for it (which I guess we can do). Secondly, it will be hard time drawing the line: if you can't use encyclopedias, what about indexes? For example, the index of the Sil is a little encyclopedia itself... What do you others think about this in general?

[The Might]

Trust me, encyclopedias won't do any good.
If I, or for any matter anyone will ask questions they have to have a certain level of difficulty, since they are to be answered over a longer period of time by more people working together.
A god example that immediately comes to mind is what I just asked in the Character Trivia thread; "Who sets sail only after the sun sets?" I doubt that encylopedias or google will do much for you here.
Plus I guess answering these questions without such help is obviously the fair way to do it, though each participant can make this decision for himself.

[Thinlómien]

Trust me, encyclopedias won't do any good.
If I, or for any matter anyone will ask questions they have to have a certain level of difficulty, since they are to be answered over a longer period of time by more people working together.
A god example that immediately comes to mind is what I just asked in the Character Trivia thread; "Who sets sail only after the sun sets?" I doubt that encylopedias or google will do much for you here.
Plus I guess answering these questions without such help is obviously the fair way to do it, though each participant can make this decision for himself.Good. That kind of questions are always better and more intriguing. :) And of course, that also solves the possible problem I mentioned above.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I will of course participate in order to regain some of my status in here, but with University and work I do not know how much time I will have on my hands.

[The Might]

Ok, so we need someone else to have a nice 4 on 4 game.
Ummm...and I guess it's up to you to choose the teams. I already made a proposition in my previous post, so if you have any comments or ideas for better teams, please say.

[The Might]

No ideas for teams...well I'm afraid I'll need a bit more support from you...:eek:

Plus, we need another person to start.

[Finduilas]

I can sit out this game.

[Folwren]

If you need another player to take part, I guess I'll join. But why is it here and not on Middle Earth Merth?

-- Foley

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

If you need another player to take part, I guess I'll join. But why is it here and not on Middle Earth Merth?

-- Foley

I think maybe it should be on the Quiz Room, but it's an "admin thread", so to say, and, well, this far no one complained...

Anyway, welcome, Folwren! That means we have full crew complement, Captain Miggy? You better prepare your questions in the line!

And concerning the teams... well... I don't want to push anything. We could make some random choice to be just... or just leave it as you proposed; if no one complains...

[Thinlómien]

And concerning the teams... well... I don't want to push anything. We could make some random choice to be just... or just leave it as you proposed; if no one complains...But we can't have it exactly the way TM proposed, of course, because Rune and Folwrey have to be added. So decisions need to be done... Any suggestions, anyone?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

But we can't have it exactly the way TM proposed, of course, because Rune and Folwrey have to be added. So decisions need to be done... Any suggestions, anyone?

Um... yes, that's true. Of course I meant something like that Rune and Foley would be evenly distribued :D among the existing teams; however, it's true that I don't know if they are equal in their skill... personally I know Folwren rather from different fields than quizzing, so have nothing to be guided with; and on the other hand Rune with his (retired :p ) champion rank should be considered as an important player. Maybe someone else has better insight and so better ideas on how the teams should be made?
(And Lommy, the fact that I agreed with TM's distribution of the teams had nothing to do with the possibility that I won't like to be in the same team as you :) )

[Folwren]

I can't say how good I'd be any more than you can, Legate. I don't do much quizzing, as you said.

I have not read Unfinished Tales. I've read the Silm once and the LotR an Hobbit several times. (Those are the four books, right?)

My only suggestion is that you split Fin and I up. We're sisters and live together, so that could be an unfair advantage to the other team if we were together.

-- Folwren

[Finduilas]

Agreed. And we are probably about equal.

[Thinlómien]

So the obvious way to make the new teams would be
Legate + Finduilas + Mac + Rune
and
Gil + Lommy + Gwathagor + Folwren, I guess.

I think that's slightly unfair, so what about
Legate + Finduilas + Gwathagor + Rune
and
Gil + Lommy + Mac + Folwren?

I would (no offense :)) consider Mac a more "dangerous" (see what werewolf has done to me :rolleyes: ) player than Gwathagor since it seems to me that his "inactivity" in quiz room has been more because of lack of enthusiasm than lack of knowledge. And he is less of a black horse than Gwathagor who has not posted much in the Quiz Room, being quite a new member. So changing Mac's and Gwathagor's teams would possible balance it a bit, since the team with Legate and Rune will have two "quizroom champions" while the other will have just one (Gil).

What do you guys think of the teams I proposed? Are they unfair in either way? Would they work?

Any other/better suggestions?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Your second sugestion seemed fine to me.

[The Might]

Well, there we have it.
If everyone is ready, we can start, though I want all to post that they are ok with the teams.

Once we get that out of the way I shall PM the first question.
I've decided that each team shall have 48 hours time from when I PMed the members to send their answer with or without a quote.

The answer, just like the quote are final, and no changes to the answer are allowed.

[Finduilas]

[QUOTE=The Might;533264]If everyone is ready, we can start, though I want all to post that they are ok with the teams.
[QUOTE]

Fine with me.

[Macalaure]

I would (no offense :)) consider Mac a more "dangerous" (see what werewolf has done to me :rolleyes: ) player than Gwathagor since it seems to me that his "inactivity" in quiz room has been more because of lack of enthusiasm than lack of knowledge.

Actually, my inactivity in the Quiz Room is mostly because I find it very hard to come up with interesting questions myself. :)


Are you sure you want to play with 2 teams of 4 players, and not 4 teams of 2 players instead? I'm okay with two, but four teams look more exciting to me - and more challenging for each team.

What about
Legate + Gwathagor
Finduilas + Rune
Gil + Folwren
Lommy + Mac?

[Folwren]

I'm fine with the teams. :)

[The Might]

Well Mac that would work as well indeed but I think that with larger teams it will be easier to get the answer (it may well be that with small teams both will be to busy to find it in 48 hours), also remember we still are talking about 4 books here, and it's not easy even so to find the answer.

Btw, another thing about the rules.
Once I get both PMs I'll update the score and will post a new question, so it will go quite fast.

I've decided on 5 questions for this first one. Must see how it will work out.

[Folwren]

Hm. I cross-posted with Mac earlier. I think I like the idea of two teams with four players. 4 books, as you said, is a lot of information to be covered, and I am not extremely familiar with two of them.

-- Folwren

[Thinlómien]

Well, I think pairs would be exciting, but there might be two problems: if one person disappears it can be quite fatal. And also if there are pairs I think the time to answer the questions should be longer. Those problems, though, can be overcome. I don't know if I'd prefer pairs or groups of four. Both have their pors and cons. Hmmm... You others can decide. :) And if we're having teams of four, what are they? Those I proposed?

[Finduilas]

I think four teams would be scary...:eek:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Personally, I think we should reserve the idea of four teams - which is a good one, I think - for later, for a second turn (if we the game proves to be as interesting as it seems). For now, when we are in the "testing phase", I think we should stay with the two teams of four. And I more or less agree with the teams as Lommy posted them (the second version). I could say the team B (oh, that's just technical marking - nothing to do with rating ;) ) gives quite a "werewolfy feeling" to me, our team - team A, of course - (but as I said, just technical...) is more, well, what word to use, hmm, (I seek a word to mark it in opposite to a team that gives "feeling"... oh, yes, here it is) "academic". Yeah, that's a good word. :)

Just a note to the rules, TM, to make it clear: so the team is able to post just ONE answer; no changes, no retractions (ahh... WW terminology ;) )?

And secondly, the time is not important at all (as far as we make it in time) to determine our final rating (unless we are playing the "sudden death")? In other words, it does not matter whether we post the answer one hour after we received the question or one hour before the time expires; just what matters is whether it's important or not?

[The Might]

No, time is never important, also not in sudden death.
There the one that first gains more points then the others wins, no time restriction exists.

Indeed, the answer and the quote supporting it can not be changed, and if no quote is provided it can not be added later.
I know this might sound tough, but that makes the teams think twice or thrice or a lot before they post and only when all agree upon something.

Ok, guess all is ready.
Just need the 2 4-member teams to be confirmed.
I guess all are ready, so tomorrow afternoon I shall PM everyone the first question. The thread shall be posted in the Quiz Room. Besides my updates of the score, you may post any problems/unsatisfactions/information for your teammates in there.

PS: I strongly recommend to each of you to empty the Inbox and Outbox after each round, since you will not be able to send, and more importantly send messages, and missing one could have consequences.
Unfortunately there is no possibility to make threads that only allow certain members to read the content, but as said IM is also a good alternative to PMs as it goes faster. I leave this to you though.

So remember, tomorrow it begins! :eek:

[Thinlómien]

PS: I strongly recommend to each of you to empty the Inbox and Outbox after each round, since you will not be able to send, and more importantly send messages, and missing one could have consequences.
Unfortunately there is no possibility to make threads that only allow certain members to read the content, but as said IM is also a good alternative to PMs as it goes faster. I leave this to you though.
Also, the team mates should probably exchange e-mail addresses, because then everything does not end in a disaster if someone's PM inbox is full for some time...

So remember, tomorrow it begins! :eek::eek: :D