HOB - Chapters into Scenes Weekly

[Sauron the White]

Would anyone here be up for doing a weekly chapter by chapter discussion of THE HOBBIT gearing it to how that can be filmed into scenes for the upcoming movie? We would take one chapter per week, discuss how we would like to see it filmed - or what should not be filmed - or what could be added - or anything you desire in the way of turning that chapter into a movie.

If we get enough interest we could start soon. Post here if interested.

[Nazgûl-king]

I think that would be fun, I would be interested. I was planning on re-reading The Hobbit anyway. Would this be put in its own sub-forum like the Chapter by Chapter area in the books section? If so we could call it something like this:

From Book to Movie
Join us for chapter-by-chapter discussions on how the chapters from The Hobbit could be turned into scenes in the film.

[Sauron the White]

It certainly could be if there was enough interest and the mods set it up that way. Glad to see you are on board Nazgul-king.

[Sir Kohran]

I would also be interested in this. Sure, a lot of interest in the movie sequence by sequence died out, but that may simply have been because it went on so long.

[Thenamir]

I'd like to participate in this, if it gets started. Veterans of the REB RP in the Gondor forum will know that it would be a bad idea for me to take the reins, so to speak, since I tend to disappear for extended periods...the call of real life is somewhat maddening, but must be endured. I'll look forward to it!

[Folwren]

I would be very interested in this. I've actually been considering writing a script myself, for the jolly fun of it. :D

I'll look back in as things progress.

[Finduilas]

Sound like a good idea STW. I will probably look in from time to time. Or maybe more often...

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

That would be great, when do we start?

[Sauron the White]

I was hoping for about ten people minimum .... and figured we could start right after Christmas. In the meantime people may want to think about what image opens the film.

[Macalaure]

I think I'm going to participate, too, but I don't yet know how regularly.

[Quempel]

I'd like to participate too, however, I mostly lurk so I suppose I could be .5 of a poster.:)

[Folwren]

Well? Is this happening? Or do we still need more people? I'm bringing it back to the top and maybe it'll catch some new person's eye.

-- Folwren

[Sauron the White]

Thank you Folwren for the reminder. Why don't we start now. Opening question:

How should the film open? What would be the first scene you want in a film of THE HOBBIT?

[Folwren]

I was about to say the hobbit hole door...but what if the opening was the dwarven city under and around the Lonely Mountain. Or perhaps of Thorin with his friends on an outing away from the mountain. And then the dragon is seen coming. Panic and disorder errupts. Smaug wrecks the place and decends on the mountain in fire and smoke. One sees a great deal of death and destruction...Thorin and his companions creep up and see what has happened and then flee the place.

There's a rough sketch of something that could be very interesting.

Anyway, from there, it cuts to the scene at Bag-end with Bilbo Baggins smoking in front of his door.

[Sauron the White]

Folwren... my mind has been working along the same line as yours in this regard. The only thing I wonder about is the similarity between the opening of FOTR in 2001 and the next movie in three years. Consider if they did this as the opening:

- we get a historical prologue telling us some of the history of the Dwarves in Middle-earth. We could see how Sauron created the rings and gave them to the Dwarves with Durin III getting the first. We are told that while this failed to control the Dwarves the same way it did the kings of Men, it did inflame them for treasure and riches. We see some of their great cities and wealth and then part of the War of Dwarves and Orcs. We see the climactic moment with Azog and his eventual death. We see the Dwarves bringing prosperity to Dale and the Mountain and then the arrival of Smaug and how he emptied the Mountain of Dwarves. Maybe the last thing we see is Thror and Thrain escaping with their lives and a reference to the secret door.

Then from that we go into the Shire of Bilbo and the arrival of Gandalf.

Would this be too similar in format to what we saw earlier in FOTR? Would that matter? Are we seeing too much history too soon? Should some of that be held for later when Gandalf and Thorin can explain it with flashbacks?

[Folwren]

Interesting thoughts. But I think...I think it would be too much history for the beginning of The Hobbit. If they intend to do just the story of the Hobbit and not the story of kicking the Necromancer (sp) out of Mirkwood, all that history should not be included. However, if they do have the White Councel and kicking Sauron out of Tol Brandir, then they may want some history on it....

But I was thinking that some of the history should be saved for Thorin and Gandalf to tell Bilbo, as you just said.

That's why I suggested stopping with Thorin and his friends running off, so that later, Thorin can tell about meeting his father and grandfather, and Gandalf can tell about the map, the key, and possibly the ring.

[Sauron the White]

So, the film should open in the Shire with Bilbo and let all the history come later in tales from Gandalf and Thorin?

How do others feel about that?

[Quempel]

I think its a good tie into the rest of the movies. And having the prolouge like the FOTR would be good too. Have Gandalf in his wagon slowly going through the shire as Bilbo is fussing around the house.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

I think that it should open with Bilbo smoking at his door step and have Gandalf come up. Once the dwarves enter, they start talking about their situation along with the history of their perdicurment. All being flashbacks of Thorin.

[Folwren]

I think that it should open with Bilbo smoking at his door step and have Gandalf come up. Once the dwarves enter, they start talking about their situation along with the history of their perdicurment. All being flashbacks of Thorin.

I thought of that, too...but it almost seems to tame a beginning for movies no adays and for such a movie. A dragon coming and wracking ruin and destruction seems a perfect beginning! ... in my opinion, that is.

But a hobbit smoking a pipe in front of his door step just as Tolkien intended would be fine, too. :D

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

I thought of that, too...but it almost seems to tame a beginning for movies no adays and for such a movie. A dragon coming and wracking ruin and destruction seems a perfect beginning! ... in my opinion, that is.

But a hobbit smoking a pipe in front of his door step just as Tolkien intended would be fine, too. :DWell, I thought about the draqgon factor, but it just seemed too, well dramatic. I guess that it was also that dramatic in FotR when the prologue goes straight to the Shire( in the EE, which is what I have open up to Bilbo and his little speech about Concerning Hobbits) but the thing is, I always skip that part and is waisting valuable time.

I don't know, maybe it's just me.:confused:

[Meneltarmacil]

Well, I'd say the first scene ought to be Bilbo being visited by Gandalf. A flashback at the beginning would really take away from the Dwarves' telling their tale, and it would ruin much of the surprise and mystery that the Unexpected Party would provide. The part in which the Dwarves recount the coming of Smaug is the perfect place to put a flashback.

In the flashback, though, Smaug would best be done as a silhouette, or flames coming from off camera. Seeing the Dragon later on from Bilbo's eyes, only then seeing a full glimpse of Smaug, would be more in line with the book, as the reader is supposed to be seeing the adventure from Bilbo's perspective.

[Nogrod]

Smaug's attack on the dwarves would be following a proven method of making an opening. It takes the viewer along with action and the faces introduced there will then be recognized as the dwarves reach Bag End. All nice and shiny. And yes, after the titles it should be Bilbo in front of his door puffing his pipe and Gandalf coming to meet him... Or maybe making the first scene coincide with the entrance of the dwarves? So Bilbo sitting there smoking and then the first dwarf to come forwards... That's how the film people cut things short: do not make two separate introductions (two times different beings come to visit Bilbo) but put all the entrances to one and a same lot.

But why don't we start with Gollum? Let's have a nice teaser-spot in the beginning where Gollum does some mischief to the goblins and escapes with the help of the Ring? After that we get the titles and then we'll have Bilbo smoking and receiving his unexpected guests... And as the dwarves eat and sing they also tell their story (singing it actually - and the viewers are given the images while they sing - some cuts in the middle of the song to the dwarves singing in the cozyness of Bilbo's Bag End!). Not bad either?

[Folwren]

Oh! But I think Gollum should be something that is left as a surprise! Besides, showing Gollum at the beginning of the movie will be confusing...he doesn't have that pivotal part in this story....it'd be pointless. If there is any introduction, any prologue, it should have to do with the dwarves and/or the dragon - not with Gollum.

[Macalaure]

Starting the film like the book is probably not a favorable thing. The Unexpected Party is maybe the lightest part of the book, even when a lot of childishness is removed. A more dark prologue could win us the favor of the "ignorant part of the audience", so that we could then get away with making the Party more faithful to the book without disappointing some from the beginning on.

I was going to suggest a similar thing as Nogrod just suggested:
One very important scene is how Gollum loses the ring and I can't think of a way to insert it before the Riddles in the Dark part. It also cannot be omitted because that would leave a plot hole. Why not make it the opening scene then? It would be a dark beginning to see Gollum lose the ring while killing an Orc child, that's true, but it would be followed and balanced by the lighter Unexpected Party. Another benefit is that it would connect Hobbit and LotR with maybe the most recognisable character and the most recognisable item of both books. The audience is going to expect Gollum anyway, so leaving him as a surprise isn't going to work.

One thing that I think should not be done is show Smaug in a prologue. That would be a too much of a spoiler. The dragon needs to remain a mystery that is only named and not shown until Bilbo finally meets him.

The bit of dwarven history is very interesting and should definitely be included, but as others have already said, I don't see the necessity to do that in a prologue. We can find some quiet place later where Thorin or Balin can give Bilbo a small history lecture.

[Nazgûl-king]

I like the idea of starting with Gollum losing the ring, maybe they could do something like; start with Gollum rowing in his boat, then he sneaks up on land behind a goblin and starts choking it, and as he is choking it the ring escapes him, and we see the ring bouncing from the rocks and then landing on the ground. Then the scene could end with a shot Dol Goldur in the distance, and then we see the opening title and move on to The Shire with Bilbo in front of his door.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Gollum appears once! How can you open a movie with someone that appears once? It just doesn't make sense!

[Sauron the White]

The Dwarves need their backstory to be explained so that the entire quest of the Dwarves makes some sense. Gollum needs to be right where he is in the story - no more , no less. Open in the Shire with Bilbo, go to Gandalf, then the arrival of Thorin and company, and let them reveal the history to Bilbo and the audience.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

The Dwarves need their backstory to be explained so that the entire quest of the Dwarves makes some sense. Gollum needs to be right where he is in the story - no more , no less. Open in the Shire with Bilbo, go to Gandalf, then the arrival of Thorin and company, and let them reveal the history to Bilbo and the audience.
Yes, that needs to be the opening scene. It needs to open in a nice sunny scene!

[Meneltarmacil]

No extra scene in which the Dwarves explain what's going on really needs to be included in my opinion. There's already one written in the book; filming that (and possibly including some flashback scenes to go along with Thorin's narration) should suffice. The story really ought to begin where Tolkien wanted it to.

A bigger problem, though, involves Bilbo's interaction with Gollum. The flashback in LOTR already contradicts what should happen, as Gollum realizes the Ring is gone at the same time that Bilbo finds it, not like in the book where he doesn't know it's gone until after he's done with the riddles.

[Sauron the White]

Mene... are you saying we should not see the Dwarves back history at all or that we should NOT open with that?

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

No extra scene in which the Dwarves explain what's going on really needs to be included in my opinion. There's already one written in the book; filming that (and possibly including some flashback scenes to go along with Thorin's narration) should suffice. The story really ought to begin where Tolkien wanted it to.

A bigger problem, though, involves Bilbo's interaction with Gollum. The flashback in LOTR already contradicts what should happen, as Gollum realizes the Ring is gone at the same time that Bilbo finds it, not like in the book where he doesn't know it's gone until after he's done with the riddles.I never thought of Bilbo getting the Ring in the prologue like that! I must be missing something!:confused:

[Meneltarmacil]

I'm saying that Tolkien already had a scene in which the Dwarves revealed their backstory, and that it should be revealed during that scene.

Oh, and during the prologue, when Bilbo first picks up the Ring, you can hear Gollum shouting "Lost! M-my precious is lost!" at which Bilbo immediately gets up and puts the Ring away nervously.

[Folwren]

Shall we discuss the next scene? Gandalf walking up to the door, or what? StW?

[Sauron the White]

Folwren ... I am at a loss with just how to proceed. Asking for advice from you and anyone so inclined. Do we need to reach any kind of agreement or is the sole point discussion.

-----------------------------------

and what about the idea of Gandalf first approaching the door and putting the sign upon it .... then going to Bilbo in the next scene.

[Folwren]

I don't think we need to expect to come to any sort of agreement about the prologue. We will probably need to agree somewhat on the following scenes, because depending on how one scene ends is will dictate how another scene begins...sometimes.

And as for the meeting of Gandalf and Bilbo, I think we need to have the whole "What do you mean, good morning?" discussion. The hobbit would scarcely be complete, much less begun, without that. ;)

So, I believe what you should say now is, "What comes after the prologue and before the first dwarf arrives?" And if that is quickly decided, we can go on...

[Sauron the White]

"What comes after the prologue and before the first dwarf arrives?"

Let us discuss.

[Folwren]

Excellent. I'll be here much later in the afternoon to discuss my thoughts.

[Sauron the White]

Lets consider the first Shire scenes with Gandalf and Bilbo. In the book there are two different scenes. First, Gandalf shows up and we have the wonderful exchange between the two of them with "good mornings" and Bilbo remembering who Gandalf is. Gandalf departs leaving the message scrawled upon the door of Bag-end. Then Gandalf returns as promised and the Dwarves show up in dribs and drabs until the place is filled up. Both are great scenes.

Question: In the film, should these be two individual scenes divided by a nights intervention, or should they be placed into one scene without the passage of time?

We could hear Gandalf explaining about the message on the door rather than seeing him doing it. This would compact things and get rid of two rather similar looking scenes - at least until the Dwarves arrival.

[Quempel]

I think there should be some passage of time. Once Bilbo gets comfortable with one or two dwarves another one or two show up. So he will be setting out tea and various goodies to eat, sits down and as soon as he sits down there's a knock at the door. Have him fussing much the way he was in beginning of FoTR, except instead of hiding he is making teas and setting out cookies and becoming bewildered by it all. I think a small side quip would be him saying something about he has no idea how many dwarves he can fit into Bag End, something where the sheer terror of being an unprepared host would be played upon. All most like the mad-hatter in Alice.

[Folwren]

Question: In the film, should these be two individual scenes divided by a nights intervention, or should they be placed into one scene without the passage of time?

You remember that Bilbo invited Gandalf to tea in the book. And then as soon as he got inside, he wondered to himself, "Why on earth did I invite him to tea?" I wonder if this might be a good opportunity to make the time change. Bilbo runs into his door, shuts it, and then as he's pattering down the hall, mutters that line half aloud and scarcely has he quit saying it than we cut to a new scene of Bilbo at the tea table preparing to sit down. Before he can, he hears the knock of the first dwarf...

Are we permitted to write what we think might be nice for the dailogue?

[Sauron the White]

That is a very good idea Folwren. It would work quite well and we avoid two back to back scenes in the exact same place with much the same characters but broken over two days.

And by all means dialogue is fine here. I would love to see what you come up with.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Has some thought been given to the above discussed prologue
including a young Thorin seing the dragon attack while outside
Erebor, and then before "An Unexpected Party" an older Thorin's
interaction with Gandalf with the dwarf seeking Gandalf's help (as in
Unfinished Tales, but perhaps at the Prancing Pony- for less
confusion for movie only people), then going to Gandalf/Bilbo?

[Sauron the White]

What songs would you put in or keep out from the Dwarves at Bag-end?

[zxcvbn]

From what I've heard PJ wants to incorporate the White Council subplot so as to let us see 'the big picture' that was happening in Middle-earth while Bilbo and co went off on their merry adventure. As such, I think the intro should be like that of FOTR.

1.Gandalf/Galadriel narratting the fall of Sauron and his rise in Dol Guldur. Gandalf dsicussing how Saruman has been blocking attempts to drive out Sauron (foreshadowing Saruman's fall) and commenting on the dangerous state of the North. The meeting Thorin at Bree. Thorin asks his help and they start plotting.

2.Second intro, sorta like 'Concerning Hobbits' in FOTR EE. Bilbo narrating something like 'Every journey has a first step' and 'In a hole in a ground lived a Hobbit' and we cut to Bilbo somiking and Gandalf arrives and so on. Thorin comes, explains his story(with flashbacks scene).

[Finduilas]

What songs would you put in or keep out from the Dwarves at Bag-end?

I think that there mountain song should be shortened, but still kept in. And I absolutely love the Crack the Plates song, so that should most certainly be in there.

[Sauron the White]

In the first chapter there are two songs - the crack the plates tune which is light and whimsical and then the Dwarves all play their instruments and play the song which starts "Far over the misty Mountains cold......"

In the book, they are very close together. Would two songs so early be too much here? Would the crack the plates tune be better just reduced to a couple of dwarves joking with Bilbo and it only lasts a few lines to get the point across?

And what about musical instruments. Most appear to be fine although I do notice the disturbing appearance of a clarinet. Disturbing because the clarinet was not invented until the 18th century. Would a recorder be a sutiable substitute?

When the Dwarves sing their longer song, how much of it would you retain? And would we see them singing the whole thing or would the music lead into flahbacks illustrating the events of which the Dwarves are singing about.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Sauron, good observation on the anachronism of clarinets* in the Dwarven instrumental ensemble. In his essay on musical instruments in Middle-earth (http://www.elvenminstrel.com/tolkien/memusic.htm) (footnote on reed woodwinds), David J. Finnamore writes:Tolkien called them "clarinets", an instrument not invented until the time of Bach and not in widespread use until the time of Mozart; I take him to mean something like "crumhorns," or "chalumeaus," the medieval ancestor of the clarinet.
The flutes that are named by Tolkien may well be what we now call recorders; I'm not sure he would necessarily have meant a transverse flute, at least not in its modern orchestral form.

If any of you know the BBC version of the Hobbit, what is your opinion of the music used for the Dwarves there? I find it hard to believe that a race with such precise and exquisite craftsmanship would play off-key. In a different system of tonality, yes, that is very much possible, just as we have different systems in various cultures of our world. But I cannot imagine them to be bad musicians! Anyone who takes his instrument on a trip of that magnitude has to be dedicated and must have developed some skill in playing it.

So, to answer your question, I would give the Dwarves a different tonal system, slightly haunting perhaps, to make their music sound foreign to our ears as it must have sounded to Bilbo. And I would like to see the comical "plates" song used in as much length as possible, then have the other one begun a bit later and perhaps echoed at various points of the story, as it fits into the action or flashbacks. It could even have a "leitmotif" function for the Dwarves during the whole movie.


*I suspect that Tolkien chose clarinets just for the fun of having them "hidden" between the walking sticks! That could make for a cute image in a movie.

[Sauron the White]

Estelyn.. thank you for contributing that information. Very valuable and useful.
I cannot help it but when I think of a dwarf playing a clarinet I get this image of Woody Allen in his old world Jewish garb from LOVE AND DEATH playing at Preservation Hall.

I like the idea of the longer Dwarf song coming back throughout sections of the movie. And I think Howard Shore would like that also.

[Kath]

I would love for the film to open with Bilbo smoking outside his front door. The first line of TH is so iconic so I'd like it to start with that.

That said, I actually think the idea of starting it with Gollum losing the Ring is good, except of course that he doesn't know that he's lost it yet. However, as they're going to have to match what happens in this film to what happened in FotR they may be able to work around this. For example, Gollum discovers that he's lost his Ring, Bilbo picks it up, Gollum leaves his island to come look for it and finds Bilbo instead who is carrying Sting and therefore has some leverage over Gollum. So it could be possible, though even so I'd rather it start quietly in the Shire.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

I didn't think that the BBC adaptation of TH was very good... but thats just me... I think that the Dwarves need to have a more haunting tune as well, but I am crazy I suppose!;)

[The Saucepan Man]

Apologies for being late to the discussion, bu please bear with me while I share my thoughts on the introduction.

My preference would be for the film to start with the Bilbo's encounter with Gandalf, followed by the opening credits and then leading into the arrival of the Dwarves.

However, I recognise that it is fairly standard nowadays for films to open with an 'action' scene and that it is therefore a part of audience expectation (I blame the James Bond films ;)). If this convention is followed, Smaug's attack on the Lonely Mountain is a possibility (with Smaug never fully shown), although I tend to agree that this is probably best left for the Dwarves to tell in flashback. I don't think that Gollum is a sufficiently central character in this tale for his loss of the Ring to form the opening scene (nor, indeed, is there enough 'meat' to it, I think, to fulfil this role).

One further possibility is to have Gandalf's covert entry into Dol Guldur and meeting with Thrain in Sauron's dungeons as the opening scene. It is central to the plot, as it is the means by which Ganadalf obtains the Map and the Key. And, while it is not 'action packed', it would be sufficiently tense and have enough action to make a good opening scene. Gandalf's identity could be concealed until he reaches Thrain and draws back his hood, adding some mystery to the scene. If there was time, the scene could then cut to Bree many years later and Gandalf's meeting with Thorin, culminating in Gandalf agreeing to find him a burglar.

Cut to opening credits, leading into a blissfully unaware Bilbo smoking his pipe (would that be allowed?) outside Bag End and Gandalf's arrival.

[Finduilas]

I like your last idea.

[Sauron the White]

Lots of very good ideas here. Looks like many want us to see some of the historical background scenes which I would love.

Does anyone have definite ideas on how the scene in CH2 with the trolls should be presented. Heavy? Lighter touch? What role should Gandalf play if different from the book? Should there be real impending danger bordering on possible death? Talking purses? Do the trolls have the same names and carry on conversations?

[zxcvbn]

Does anyone have definite ideas on how the scene in CH2 with the trolls should be presented. Heavy? Lighter touch? What role should Gandalf play if different from the book? Should there be real impending danger bordering on possible death? Talking purses? Do the trolls have the same names and carry on conversations?

I think it should have a somewhat light/comical touch. The Dwarves trying to fight the trolls and getting caught with next to no effort. Maybe a scene showing a dwarf boasting about his sharp senses just before being 'sacked'. The trolls speak to each other, but in some dumb-sounding, beast-like language translated by subtitles.

[Folwren]

I think they should speak English. And have the names Tolkien gave to 'em. And it should be humorous. Not necessarily a talking purse...that may be taking it a little far...although I'd love to see it. :D

[Sauron the White]

Walking the line between actual danger and somewhat light humor could be a way to go. To make it work, both Bilbo and the Dwarves have to believe they are in danger so it cannot be too light or humorous. Maybe some of that can come with Gandalf who observes it all with a slightly cocked eyebrow ready to step in if things go too far. I would get rid of the purse and its ability to talk but perhaps substitute some sort of auditory alarm that would serve the same purpose. The effect is not quite so cartoonish.

[Nazgûl-king]

A lot in this scene depends on whether or not they are keeping with the tone of the book or making it more mature. If they go for the more mature idea, then I doubt the trolls will talk much if at all, or that there will be the purse. I think the trolls will talk a little bit though, since in one scene in the Fellowship film when Bilbo is telling the story of this adventure to a bunch of hobbit children he mentions them arguing over them. If they decide to keep the look they had for the stone trolls, then I think we have an idea of what the trolls and the location will look like.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

It mat have been Shippey who suggested a gradually
increasingly serious threat by the dangers posed to
Thorin & Co. in TH. If that's the case then it could make
sense to make the troll episode fairly lighthearted,
although I must confess I've been a bit discordant to
hear their cockney accents (in light of later LOTR).

Btw, I've been listening to a series of Tolkien based
lecture tapes about fantasy literature I got at Barnes
and Noble Bookstores where the lecturer argues for
the trolls speech being a deliberate class separation
by Tolkien.

[Thenamir]

Do forgive me as well for being late to this discussion, especially as I was one of the first posters to express some interest in carrying it on.

There is merit to all of the proposed prologue/openings, but there is a part of the Tolkien fan and purist in me that wants to see the opening moments look something like this:

After the last of the interminable trailers for upcoming features, and the obligatory New Line logo, the screen fades to black for a few moments. Quietly, almost imperceptibly (i.e. just louder than the crunching popcorn from the moviegoer next to you), the score begins -- soft strings play a theme not unlike the Shire theme from FOTR but slower, more muted, as if not quite awake yet, as we see the "New Line Cinema presents" and the "A Wingnut Films Production", then the screen fades up.

The view is from aloft, flying (less like a plane, more like a hot-air balloon) over a lush green countryside in the twilight before sunrise. As we drift along, seeing the mist hanging low in the valleys, the music and the light rise in tandem and we begin to descend and zoom in on a small village town. Now, purposefully, you can see that we are coming in from a great distance to a particular door -- a round door in the side of a hill. And as the music reaches a peak-point, the sunlight breaks over the hill, illumining the hill and the door, and you hear the voice of Ian Holm (or whoever plays Bilbo) speak aloud,
"In a hole in the ground...there lived a Hobbit."
Cue the title card, pan around to the window, where you see Bilbo taking a cup of tea to his desk, a large red book open to the first words of "There and Back Again"

Finish the rest of the opening credits however you want, but you MUST have those famous words!

[skip spence]

^Great post, Thenamir. I could see it play out crisp and clear in my head and have nothing to add. That would be a great opening scene.

As for the trolls, I agree with the posters who opted for a more humourous approach. Of course, the party are in grave danger and it should show, but if the director can't see the great potential for comedy in having three cockney trolls arguing how to best cook a bunch of dwarves he should pursue a different carreer.

And isn't it a known fact that orcses, football hooligans and other likeminded scum speak English with a cockney accent? ;)

[Nazgûl-king]

Are we still doing this? If so what part are we one now?

[Olórin the White]

no idea if this is still has interest in being pursued as a topic, but I figured I'd add my two cents. Most people seem to be a for an opening action sequence and/or background history (like FotR), however I disagree for several reasons.
A) I doubt PJ and del Toro will want to follow the same pattern they did for FotR, simply because every filmmaker wants to prove that he can do something fresh, and not fall back on a formula that worked in the past. (However, I will admit that PJ did love his use of either flashback or prologue type beginning to each LotR, so if they are trying to make The Hobbit fit that, perhaps they would indeed do something similar. It is hard to judge.)
B) From a character standpoint, this story is about Bilbo Baggins, he is 'the hobbit' afterall, and his sudden involvement in the events of the Dwarves is very bewildering and unexpected to him (hence 'the unexpected party). He has simply lived his quiet life in the Shire, and I believe that is how we should be introduced to the tone of the movie...the story of 'the Hobbit is told largely through his eyes, and therefore I sense that the movie should also be told through his eyes as well.
To add to that, we as the audience will understand his character arc better because we have followed a similar learning curve in terms of information discovered along the way.
Now, you might argue the same about Frodo and LotR, and that the book starts out largely dealing with the peace and quiet of the Shire, but there is just such an immense amount of history that needed to be set up (which isn't there in the Hobbit to nearly the same extent), and really, the 'lord' of the rings was Sauron, therefore he needed to be introduced at the outset.

Therefore, I think the film should start with Bilbo peacefully enjoying life in the Shire. I liked the idea someone had for the opening of flying in over the shire, and coming around and into Bag End where Bilbo is beginning to pen 'there and back again'. However, that was already shown at the beginning of FotR:EE, so in terms of film continuity that unfortunately wouldn't work. (unless they use that same footage and use it as a recurring theme of Bilbo writing it down and occassionally narrating the story...I've heard rumor that Ian Holm might have a role as a narrator in 'The Hobbit'?) That could be interesting. It is just difficult because what Bilbo is writing in the EE is really the prologue to LotR (Concerning Hobbits), rather than the opening to The Hobbit.
What I would love to see actually is the camera flying over a map of Middle Earth, revealing Mirkwood and the Lonely Mountain and other important landmarks we will see in the movie, with the voice of Bilbo in the background. Cue title card as the camera pans up to reveal that the map was actually in Bag End (very much out of FotR:EE) and have Bilbo beginning to write out The Hobbit, which of course naturally leads us to the opening scenes of Gandalf and the dwarves and the Unexpected Party).

[Sauron the White]

Nazgul King - There was never really much enthusiasm here for the project.
I went over to thehobbitblog.com and started a thread there doing the same thing and there are over 1,900 posts in six months. We have finished with HOBBIT and are laying out the bones of the second film. Try it and see what you think.