Werewolf XLII: The meaning of life forever

[Brinniel]

Just to let you guys know, I am back....a little later than I expected (sorry, I was planning a trip to Belgium, heh).

Anyways, just a reminder that the deadline's an hour away...

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I'm back too--Hi, Brinniel, and Groin, if you're here.

I'm still looking forward to Groin's analysis.

[Groin Redbeard]

Day 0.1: Was very fun to watch, up until the end. Legate’s points were very valid and I think he was innocent. Menel on the other hand was very suspicious the way he didn’t accuse Valier right off, like he did Legate, and then when it came clear that Legate had it in for him he focused on attacking Legate.

Day 0.2: It was very weird the way that Roa and McCaber almost immediately bonded together. When Roa voted against Naria it just became a battle of spite. Naria voted against Roa, just because she voted againste her.

Day 0.3: I didn’t pay a whole lot of attention to this battle, but I’m pretty sure that the only reason Shasta was killed was because she didn’t post enough (at least that was the main reason).

Day 0.4: I agreed with Nogrod of this one, and Thinlomien does look suspicious. Once again I thought lynching the Might was a bit unfair, but he should have been there more often to defend himself.

Day 0.5: Got started off really ssslllooowww. There wasn’t a bunch of evidence tossed around on this day. Gil-Galad got killed because he wasn’t there to defend himself.

[Groin Redbeard]

Just to answer your question really quick:

I think I stated this before, but I saw the first Day (Day 0) useless because not even the wolves knew each other and any votes made probably wouldn't be the same votes made in a Day where there would be an actual lynch.

The reason I pointed that out was because you say it's important, and that you generally support Day 0, but in this case you don't. That's why it looks suspicious!

[Brinniel]

The reason I pointed that out was because you say it's important, and that you generally support Day 0, but in this case you don't. That's why it looks suspicious!
Noo...I said I generally support the first Day, and normally the first Day is Day 1. But in this case it was Day 0 and the rules were a lot different than a typical Day 1 which is why I didn't think it was a particularly helpful Day. Does that make any sense?

Day 0.2: It was very weird the way that Roa and McCaber almost immediately bonded together. When Roa voted against Naria it just became a battle of spite. Naria voted against Roa, just because she voted againste her.
Well as I said in my own analysis, I think Roa's vote was reasonable...she didn't suspect McCaber and didn't know if Naria would show up. And who else could Naria vote for? If she voted McCaber, he would've voted her and she would've been lynched. It's not really because Naria voted Roa, but how she reacted to Roa's vote which makes her look suspicious to me.

[Groin Redbeard]

Noo...I said I generally support the first Day, and normally the first Day is Day 1. But in this case it was Day 0 and the rules were a lot different than a typical Day 1 which is why I didn't think it was a particularly helpful Day. Does that make any sense?
Yes that does clarify it, thanks!

Well as I said in my own analysis, I think Roa's vote was reasonable...she didn't suspect McCaber and didn't know if Naria would show up. And who else could Naria vote for? If she voted McCaber, he would've voted her and she would've been lynched. It's not really because Naria voted Roa, but how she reacted to Roa's vote which makes her look suspicious to me.[/QUOTE]
I like that idea very much, Roa's vote was a little too early and hasty.

[Brinniel]

Strange no one's voted yet... Zali, you still around?

I think I better vote in a few minutes...

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I'm still around, Brinniel. Anything you want to know from me?

[Groin Redbeard]

Strange no one's voted yet... Zali, you still around?

I think I better vote in a few minutes...

I'm going to wait for as long as I can, incase someone has something else to say.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

10 minutes left. I think I'm going to have to start putting together a vote.

[Brinniel]

Anything you want to know from me?
No, just checking to make sure you were around. I wanted to make sure all of us were here so we wouldn't have a randomized lynch or something.

I still don't see anything suspicious about Zali, so right now I'm thinking her innocentish. Groin's arguments and analysis seem a bit odd to me. First he uses the "helpful as Lommy" phrase, then he says he finds her suspicious....which I find rather contradictory. Maybe he didn't look at Lommy carefully enough before, but I feel his suspicions against her were made just to agree with Zali and me. I would elaborate even more, but I'm afraid we're running out of time.

So, my vote:

++Groin

[Groin Redbeard]

Alright it's time.

I've been thinking this over for the last half hour and I'm beginning to flip flop on my ideas. I've been accusing Brinniel a lot, but accusation I through at her she has a good response to. Azalia is almost as helpful as Thinlomien, but she says beware of those type of people.

I'll go with my gut feeling and say,
++Brinniel

EDIT: X-posted with Brinniel.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I don't really want to be the first to vote, but I feel like it's pretty close to the last minute.

It's a process of elimination for me--I feel like I have a pretty good sense of Brinniel, and that sense is telling me she's innocent. Groin, on the other hand, I don't feel like I know as well. He found little nitpicky things to suspect--basing an argument off a couple comments on Day 0 vs Day 1. He said he found me "helpful as Lommy", but then says he finds Lommy suspicious. It doesn't quite add up.

I'm going to vote

++Groin

EDIT: X-POSTED WITH BRINNIEL AND WITH GROIN

[Groin Redbeard]

Hehe.. oh well it was fun. This dwarf goes to dwell in the halls of Aule!:D

[Volo]

The sixth day came and went, but before it went, something happened.

Azaelia the Average rolled into to the middle of the arena and shouted, ”Cheers!” and tried to what imitate Brinn and Groin had said before the battles. It was a good idea and try, but nobody laughed at it because Azaelia was just so darn average and nobody laughes at mediocrity. Still, she didn’t give up and brought the show to an end. When no clapping came, Azaelia tried not to look embarrassed and said, ”I would like you to base anything on what I just recited, since that was just an awkward little thing. I believe there was a lot of testing the waters going on from everyone, people just trying to get a feel for the group and for the setup--this is new and strange for everyone, after all.” She fell down and took out her knitting needles wondering if she could make an armour from yarn.

After some time Brinn the Emo walked to Azaelia with her back bent with the pressure of the world, and her guitar. The cigarette between her teeth was carefully folded to form a ”z” and look double-cool. One of her great big lightblue eyes was completely hidden beneath her darkblue hair. ”Oh man, girl, you really can’t do a thing right. Let me show…” Brinn lit her cigarette and smoked it slowly puffing smoke at Azaelia. She took out her pick and hit the chords. After some noise she started to sing with little melody.

”(E) This was certainly (B) an interesting Day
to watch, though quite (C#msus) honestly
(Am) I cannot get
any clear suspicions (E) from that Day
(B) simply because all three seem rather (C#msus) suspicious.
The case against (Am) Legate seems to be
(F#m) based off mainly Day (A) 0, which I've
(B) already stated (C) I think isn't a
particularly helpful Day since odd behaviour isn't necessarily wolfish behaviour,
(F#m) if you get (B) my meaning. (E) Of course since they
were (E) the first three (B),
they didn't really have (C#msus) a choice
but to use Day 0 for (Am) discussion,
which (E) is unfortunate (B)-”

It took Brinn a long long time to finish the song. While she was singing, Azaelia waited kindly and only after dared to say ”Hi!” and then ”I would say that I think it's a bit more important to focus on each other than on what's happened in the past”, after which she quickly reminded of what happened in the past.

”You’ve got a point there, Zali” agreed Brinn.

The most venerable Dwarven warrior of the Age stepped closer at that moment. Groin Redbeard stood proudly with his long hair and beard flailing in the wind. ”Brinn the Emo, why d’ya’ contradict ya’self? First ya’ say tha’ Azaelia is good for nothing and now y’ say tha’ she’s actually got a point. I personally think tha’ she’s almost as helpful as Thinlómien. What’d’ya say?”

”Huh, I think I forgot that I did have something to say! I have this bet with one of my friends. He promissed to comission me a proper funeral if I shouted one stupid thing aloud. What a jerk really, don’t get wasted with him around or he’ll make you promise something just as weird. But I think I rather do it, not like I’m dead yet, but, you know, just so that he sees that I keep my promises”. Brinn tossed the finger to the far left side of the audience. ”Lord Dor-Glor, open your ears, you old boot!” She yelled. ”Kurpitsa!” The emo-rocker showed the finger again. ”Now, happy? Huh?”

Groin was bewildered by what just happened. And nearly chocked on it. Trying to hold his anger he said, ”Lady Brinn, I am terrified by your lack of manners. We Dwarves might be known to be rough, but I am not willing to tolerate such behavior. And I feel it is my duty to remind us all that you, Brinn, contradicted yourself”. Groin was so tense that he even lost every trace of his accent, which was quite unnatural even for a Dwarf.

”Now come on, old man! Who’s talkin’? Didn’t you just say that Azaelia is helpful like that wierd freak Lommy? Yeah, well, don’t you just think that Lommy is actually suspicious?” Brinn plucked her guitar to add more effect. ”Really, you’re not my dad or something, huh, are you, to say things like that to me? You’re more like my granddad and even so he’s twice your hight”.

”Please- Please, come down”, Azaelia said with a would-be-happy smile that didn’t fool anybody. ”Let’s talk nicely”.

”Thank you, Lady Az-”

”Yeah, old dwarf, shut it! I don’t mean to be rude, but I wish you’d die. Like drowned or something, I think that’d be good also for you, to free you from your misery, like really, nobody like you can truly enjoy life! I bet you wouldn’t even care if we innocents died!” Brinn said enthusiastically.

The Dwarf could barely stay his hand. He didn’t manage to keep his voice low though and yelled at the girl who had just lit a new cigarette. ”Do not dare smoke while I am talking to you! And just try to interrupt me one more time! I will see that you-”

”Please, Groin, don’t speak to her like this! She’s only a little girl!”

”Yeah! Shut it! You’re just a-”

”Both of you, be quiet! Be quiet!” the Dwarf strained his voice with shouts.

Then something happened between the three.

Groin rushed at Brinn with his great axe lifted over his head. At the same moment Brinn brought her guitar over her back and was also about to charge at the Dwarf. Azaelia who was between the two took out her kebab stickers and as Groin passed her, she plunged them into his palm. Groin lost his balance by dropping his axe and nearly rolled into Brinn while her guitar came crashing into his skull.

If he had been a Man, Groin wouldn’t have been anymore. But being a Dwarf he managed to survive the blow. While trying to get steady, both women ran at him and started stabbing at his unarmoured parts. While one digged out the Dwarf’s eyes with a small, dull knife, the other opened his arteries with a razor blade, because it seemed like a damn wicked idea at the moment. The Dwarf tried to bash anything near with his heavy arms, but slowly his badly aimed strikes slowed and he fell to the ground twiching. But even then Brinn wasn’t satisfied. She climbed on Groin’s back and began jumping insanely.

-----------~~

Suddenly Brinn found that her sneaker sunk deeper into Groin’s body that it should have. As if his body melted away. It wasn’t so, but quite close. A trail of fine sand rose from where Groin’s mouth had been. It first swarmed in the air above where the Dwarf had fallen and then as a cloud flew straight at the two women. Brinn and Azaelia shrieked. The emo-rocker had above-average reflexes and lounched herself at Azaelia, whose reflexes very completely average. They fell to the ground managing to avoid the worst part of the sand cloud.

The sand cloud however didn’t stop, it continued its way at the audience. And in the audience a great man rose. As the man stood, he was at least twelve feet tall. He opened his mouth and the sand entered it. After the last grain was inside, he closed his mouth and sat down so that the whole stadium shook.

-----------~~

Around:
Brinniel
THE Ka
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
McCaber
Nogrod
Thinlómien
Valier
Meneltarmacil
Kath
Naria
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Isabellkya
Rikae
A Little Green
Ugh-Friedrich (host)

Gone:
Legate of Amon Lanc - lynched on Day0.1 - teleported away
Roa_Aoife - lynched on Day0.2 - joined the dance
Shastanis Althereduin - lynched on Day0.3 - reincarnated as the first Man
The Might - lynched on Day0.4 - escorted away and sailed away
Gil-Galad - lynched on Day0.5 - disappeared in a gate to a different world
Groin Redbeard - lynched on Day0.6 - returned to where he came from

---------~~

Day0.6 ended, Day0.7 begins. A Little Green, Isabellkya and Rikae may post. Others get out some popcorn.

[A Little Green]

Hullo then, Rikae and Isabellkya! :)

Nothing to say really, except for my timetables. It's quite late in here already and I haven't yet read all the previous Days, or indeed even reread the first, because of a busy weekend. Therefore I probably won't be able to post anything of substance as yet. I'll be around all evening, though, from my 17 PM onwards (15 PM GMT I think?).

Of course if either (or both?) of you is online right now we might have a short bit of discussion before I'm off to bed.

[A Little Green]

No one here, it seems, so I'll be off. I hope to see you around when I return. Good night, folks! :)

[Rikae]

Well, I'm here - I guess I'll just go through the day 0.0 discussion again and post my thoughts. It's a shame time zones are probably going to dampen the proceedings... I have to say, I'm not too pleased with the way days 0.1-0.6 went, as most lynches seem to have occurred more or less "by default" rather than being based on suspicions. I hope we can manage a better "tournament" today, in spite of the limitations imposed by geography. After all, this is meant to be fun, and it's more fun if everyone puts some effort into it. [/lecture]
Well, off to review - although, if I recall correctly, there is little to review in Izzy's case...

[Rikae]

Ok, I'll say my piece...


First of all, a few thoughts on the preceding “rounds”, so if I don't make it through toDay, I can at least leave some thoughts, for what they're worth:


Day 0.1: I'm not happy with this outcome at all. To me, Menel's confusion and boldness look ordo-ish – he has an air of honesty about him, for instance in his day 0.0 disagreement with Nogrod – a risky move for a wolf, and not one that would benefit wolf-Menel, while Valier seemed unwholesome from the beginning. Too agreeable – her first post on day 0.0 has a nervousness about it, jumping in with all the exclamation points and promising to participate. She looks very wolfish to me indeed. This would leave Legate as a gifted (unless a cobbler) – in which case we have lost our Hunter, I suppose (unless there are more than one, which is possible, I suppose). Also speaking in favor of Legate's giftedness – this is a subtle thing, but I have been a gifted many times myself, and I noticed (both in me and in others) there is a tendency to post with a slight “swagger” - hard to describe it, but Legate had it, and I thought him giftedish on day 0.0.


Day 0.2 – I don't know about Roa, but I don't think she was a wolf... she's craftier than that... and, having been hunter & ranger with her, I don't think her “niceness” was necessarily a sign of giftedness, either. I was looking forward to playing another game with her, though, and I'm sorry to see her go. McCaber may have had RL reasons for his disappearance, but as it stands, it looks as though he abdicated responsibility, and, to me, that's not an innocentish thing to do. I also don't like his thanking Roa for her vote for Naria, or his dramatic “I will hear Naria's arguments”. As for Naria herself, it's difficult to say anything – but since I suspect McCaber, I assume she is most likely innocent.


Day 0.3 It's really difficult to glean anything from this. I will say that the lynch looked too easy, and neither Ka nor Aganzir seems to have bothered putting some solid reasoning behind it (even if they couldn't argue why Shasta *was* a wolf, they could have made a case that the other *wasn't*)


Day 0.4 Lommy struck me as playing a rather smooth, glib game – there is an element of planned-ness to her that I don't trust, whereas Nogrod seems very much back to his old self (lectures and all) and genuine in a gruff sort of way. On the other hand, I share Lommy's suspicions of Zali and Valier – but Lommy is not likely, as a wolf, to protect her possible packmates at this point, I think. She's experienced enough to know that fabricating suspicions is a good way to get lynched, while mildly-voiced suspicions are quickly forgotten. Although anything is possible, her suggestion that TM might have been a wolf was too quick, and too much, I think – like a wolf realizing Nogrod would otherwise know her role – but Nogrod's response to the contrary also seemed somehow false to me – overly dramatic, I guess. I don't know what to make of it, but there it is.


Day 0.5 – Sally and Kath seem oddly friendly with each other from the start, so it's no surprise they went for the easy vote for the absent Gil. It seems as though one person in almost every one of these three-way battles “threw” the game in one way or another – and I doubt wolves would do that. We might just be losing the game before it's begun - which makes toDay's decision critically important. I don't know whether Kath or Sally looks worse, because they both look too agreeable and go too much with the flow. Of the two, Sally seems more sincere (in an insubstantial sort of way).


Day 0.6 – Groin, from the beginning, seems to have not known what was going on – so much so as to make his (?) role very hard to discern. One might say “someone with a role would have made more effort”, but, not having played with him before, I don't know whether to either consider him capable of faking such a thing as a bluff, or simply doing so in spite of all the efforts of a wolf or gifted.
Azaelia, well, I gave her my vote on 0.0 – she was, and remains, wolfish in my eyes. This, in particular, I dislike:
I think it's not a good thing to be too silent, keeping every thought to oneself, but too much talking from one person just serves to muddy the waters and can attract the wrong kind of attention from the direction of the wolves or from that of innocents.




Muddy the waters? Attract the wrong kind of attention? Taking this advice would mean that innocent villagers keep quiet in the interests of self-preservation, which makes it possible for wolves to do the same, and we're left choosing lynches with little on which to ground our decisions. This only helps the wolves – sure, if a person is vocal, it attracts attention – but, if they are innocent, good players will recognise that (or what is the point of the game, I ask you?)
With Azaelia looking so bad to me, I assume Brinniel is innocent by default – certainly, she hasn't said anything that bothered me yet.


Now, on to my – what should I call you? Opponents? One of you isn't. Co... somethings. Well, anyway:


Greenie's first post on 0.0 seems to consist of a reasonable combo of role-playing and good sense. She pointed out the oddness of a statement of Aganzir's I also found odd, and wondered about Nogrod taking a “leadership role” - which, of course, he does (in spite of valiant efforts on the parts of a few to supplant him!) Her second post (#70) I can't really agree with – my problem with the voting was that I thought it would make it too easy for the wolves to construct phony “suspicions” without evidence, simply by “voting” people; I never thought the outcome of the voting would have any impact on the trials, and Greenie's concern about it shows a kind of – what? - nervousness? I don't quite trust.


Izzy pops in to say “Hiii” - nothing to analyze there. Oh, what the heck, maybe I'll try. “*catches up on happenings* seems “cute” - too cute. ;)
Her next post basically repeats the concerns about voting and quiet vs. loud wolves – all perfectly sensible for what it is, but not really contributing anything, is it? Posting this at this point seems too much like an attempt to participate while being uncontroversial.


I'm afraid I find you both slightly suspicious, and neither overwhelmingly so. I certainly hope I don't have to decide without more evidence from both of you.

[Isabellkya]

Wowza.. time differences have definately led to a bit of a lull. Pardon my tardiness, we had quite the windstorms earlier today and electricity flickering on and off doesn't make for a good discussion session.

To me, when there have been a number of posts whilst I slumbered.. I find it perfectly fine to say opinions and thoughts.. even if they'd already been covered by others. Otherwise you can get into a spot of "Well it has already been said, and it lessens what I want to say.. so I guess post almost nothing?" I would rather say something rather than nothing, even if it may be a bit redundant.

I honestly don't know what good it will do us to really delve into the tournaments of the proceeding days, save for it supplying us with something to talk about.. or atleast launch off of. Sure, it might help in the future. But we three are stuck with each other for this day.. we can not vote for anyone else.


My brain refuses to really function right now. I shall return roughly four hours before deadline.. after slumber.

[Rikae]

Better to say something than nothing, even when you have nothing new to say? Perhaps, if others have already made your points, you could try building off theirs... that is, if you have goals other than your own survival (like, for instance, catching wolves...)
Otherwise, you're basically doing exactly what wolves want to do - protecting your own hide without actually contributing anything.

As for the usefulness of our opinions on the past days, I can't see why an innocent would not want to leave as much evidence as possible for the rest of the village's benefit, in the event she's lynched toDay.

[Nogrod]

An important notice from A Little Green!

She just sent me a text message. Her teacher had given them a wrong schedual and unlike she thought she needs to be editing a school-project film today. She will be back but not probably before 6PM GMT.

PS. I decided to send the message here as my post in the admin. thread might not have reached you. I can deletethis after you both have registered it.

[Isabellkya]

On the trial day..

Both of you made sensible arguments and thoughts. Though I am still a bit confused by something A Little Green said. She mentioned about people voting for other players whom they liked and were experienced. Whcih is a bit odd, I would think that they wouldn't vote in such a case, unless they truly found them wolfy.

0.1
Legate, I found a bit odd, compared to the Legate from the most recent game. He came off too 'interrogator'esque. He didn't look too innocent to me, some of his comments made me think that he was trying to control the day and where it went.

So, I am leaving now (again) for a shorter time, I'll be back in about four hours, and then I'll be around for the rest of the Day to immediately react to both of you if you appear. Later...

Now I get that he is saying he will be around, so there won't be a lull in discussion; yet how it was said.. raises a flag.

Valier, definately seemed a bit flip-floppy; seemed she wanted to stay in the middle of the road.. and would venture to a side only after her sentry feelers returned with something substantial.

menel, typically quiet. The placement of his vote screams innocent, yet perhaps screams a bit too loudly.

Order of wolfyness : Valier, Legate, Menel.


(I'm posting this now to say I'm here, but there is more to follow. I didn't want to be sitting here typing my thoughts and notes.. only to get it posted really cose to the deadline.)

[Rikae]

I'm back and will be around until the deadline; although I have some work to do, it can all be completed at or near my computer, and I'll check this thread frequently.

Greenie's comment about Nogrod voting for good players was odd, although I don't think it was wolfishly so (or innocently so either, for that matter). Certainly, Nogrod has a habit of arguing against lynching the experienced and active players, something Greenie may not have been aware of - then again, he doesn't always practice what he preaches on that matter either, :p, and the argument that loud wolves are more easily caught is, after all, behind the notorious "lynch-the-quiet" theory. One *could* argue that, while he advises otherwise, Nogrod tends to go after the most active players - regardless, Greenie making a comment, true or false, about her expecations of Noggie's playing style is not something I find suspicious (actually, I'm beginning to wonder why Izzy found it worth bringing up).

I'm also curious, Izzy, as to why you find Valier more wolfish than Legate, as the reasons you give don't clearly show that. I think she is too, as I said, but not for quite the same reasons. In fact, your reasons, in themselves, don't really support any conclusion - you seem to find all three suspicious. I agree, Legate's remark looks controlling and vaguely threatening, but actually this makes me feel better about him. Such behavior is better for finding wolves than covering their tracks... it seems to me that the first to balk at interrogation are those who are up to no good (note: this doesn't mean I think people should be interrogated and intimidated - outside WW - of course! But all's fair in love and Werewolf.)

I'm going to be blunt here and say that my suspicion-meter is tipping slightly in Izzy's direction at the moment.

[A Little Green]

I'm here. *phew* Sorry for the delay, it was really unexpected. Now as the deadline is drawing near, I suppose I should make a little (green) analysis. I'll be back with it as soon as I can.

[Isabellkya]

0.2

Aye. This day seemed a bit too nice for me. I got the impression that were it a real battle involving weapons, they would've all been stabbing each other with wicked/creepy clown grins on their faces.

Roa was quite jumpy and hasty.

That is about all I really have to say, other than I would've liked to see how McCaber would've voted.

0.3

Aganzir leaning towards voting for Shasta is quite understandable, not out of the realm of Ag. Though I see in the future, a weapon being constructed for her, so she can truly threaten people with votes. :P

Kath seemed a bit too indecisive to me.

Order of wolfiness: Kath, Aganzir, Shasta.

0.4

Lommy, I agree with her point about McCaber waiting to make his vote, rather than rush in and hammer were he a wolf. Yet, for that reason alone does an innocent not make.

Nog, hmm I dislike how he seemed to walk into the day with the idea of voting for Might; when the trial day for all purposes was a gathering. I think that were he a true innocent, he should've walked into the day heavily suspicious of both.

Wolfiness : Lommy, Nogrod, Might.

[Rikae]

Hmm... the above looks better to me - which leaves me in the same quandry as before.

[Rikae]

Back from a reread of the thread, and I have a hunch. It's not much, but I'm afraid I find myself with a choice between Izzy - who looks foul in the sense of following the posts of others too much and not showing enough reasoning behind her suspicions - but feels fair, and Greenie, who looks fair but feels foul. Her persistant in-character quips, her Day 0.0 quickness to argue about things likely to be of concern to wolves - her tendency to take so long to get to the point, and the thinness of those points when held up to the light... well, I don't think this quite explains what I mean, but my gut tells me Greenie is not to be trusted.

[Rikae]

One thing that stands out as significant and that I had forgotten before is that Greenie's points about Nogrod were actually worded in such a way as to appear to be a suspicion, although as a suspicion it makes little sense. Therefore, there isn't really anything suspicious in Izzy bringing it up after all, and something rather suspicious in Greenie doing it in the first place.

[Isabellkya]

Why I think Valier looks more wolfy than Legate?

She seemed to send out voting feelers and when they didn't pan out, she went the other direction. She stated that Menel was an easy lynch.. and for the most part I got the feeling that she was only saying that, to see what Legate thought. 1 wolf : 2 innocents, doesn't have the luxury of making the first vote in case it goes in the wrong direction. The wolf I think in most cases to survive the day, needs to make the deciding vote. When Legate seemed to not agree with her, or mention about Menel, it seems she decided she could vote for Legate, with getting Menel to vote the same.

Being it a choice between the three for wolfiness, Menel was at the bottom.. there wasn't much to get a read from, and mere placing of his vote spoke in his favor.

Legate, while I found a bit too aggresive; it was an obvious aggression which spoke in his favor. I think that a wolf would not choose to be so openly aggresive; at the chance of looking too determined for a vote.

[Isabellkya]

I just realized that in my post #276, I'd written Kath where it should be Ka.

[Isabellkya]

While I agree on a level with interrogation methods to make a wolf blunder, there is a fine line between interrogating and going too far. (Not to say that Legate went too far, he didn't; it just brought to mind ruthless interrogating in other WW games on other forums.) Yet, innocents can slip under the interrogation scope, particularly newbie's who've never been around a game before and can get overwhelmed by the experienced players. I've seen it done. Yet here, I don't believe Valier or menel are new to the game.

[Rikae]

Izzy, your posts ring true and your lack of defensiveness speaks in your favor. I think I'll go with my gut feeling this time...

++Greenie

[A Little Green]

1.Rikae on the first Day.
1.1. post #62 - Her pointing out that two thirds of the players have something to hide made me thoughtful. An unusual aspect of this game that no one has yet mentioned is the fact that most of this group has something to hide. Usual methods wolf-spotting like searching for nervous defensiveness & extreme efforts for one's own survival could spell disaster in the event that they are adopted by the ordos on the trial days, required as they are to choose between a gifted and a wolf. Is it a wolf trying to say that not all nervous people are wolves (an attempt to protect unknown but maybe unexperienced fellows by suggesting that they are gifteds, perhaps)? Or a gifted or an ordo who wants to reduce the number of gifted-lynchings? I can't tell. Her suspicion of Azaelia seems genuine to me, and her overall manner is quite relaxed.
1.2. post #63 - nothing of significance, just casual (and off-topic) chatter.
1.3. post #73 - a simple (and genuine-looking) point, nothing notable there.
1.4. post # 84 - sensible, cool, reasoned points. Nothing new or astounding. A vote for Azaelia. Easy, sensible, and reasoned. Too easy? I also reserve the right to change my mind whenever I see fit. After her semi-lecture about how it is only natural that the suspicions change, this strikes me as odd. Why repeat it?

2. Izzy on the first Day.
2.1. post #69 - nothing of significance. Just a "hiiii, I'm here". Something there bothers me, though.
2.2. post #87 - general matters, still no suspicions. She is, at least this far, much too neutral. I'll read on.
2.3. HEY, WHAT'S THIS? I hope, Izzy, that you'll explain why you didn't turn up and vote after all. You didn't say anything at all about other players, except for a small remark to Nogrod, during the Day.

3. Rikae toDay.
3.1. post #268 - nothing weird in here.
3.2. post #269 - well, at least there is substance. :p Her novel looks quite genuine. Of course an experienced wolf could manage such, I suppose, but her manner is maybe too relaxed for a wolf.
3.3. post #271 - nothing remarkable.
3.4. post #274 - Rikae bothers me. She is either an innocent or a very very cunning wolf. I can't grasp anything from her posts. No slips, no odd phrasing, nothing at all.
3.5. post #277 - nothing to say.

4. Izzy toDay.
4.1. post #270 - still (!!) nothing about people. General (and quite sensible) points, but I must say I'm getting a little uneasy about this neutrality.
4.2. post #273 - suspicions at last, though I did notice a certain wariness in the way she phrased them. It might be only natural of course, resulting of not being sure about the suspicion which is, at this point, almost inevitable. Still, there is something I don't like in her carefulness.
4.3. post #276 - still quite general. Has a good point about Nog. I don't know if it's been stated before as I still haven't found the time to read all of the previous Days but still, a valid point.

5. In general, then. Rikae looks innocentish, though alarmingly traceless. I don't know how to phrase it, really. I don't like Izzy being so careful and neutral. All in all, I find Izzy more suspicious than Rikae.

EDIT: x-ed with everything since Rikae's post #277

[A Little Green]

Izzy, in case you're here I would love to hear your thoughts about me and Rikae.

[A Little Green]

Well, Izzy, it's up to you. Though you may be more suspicious in the classic sense, after all I find Rikae's easy tracelessness even more unnerving than that. Therefore,

++ Rikae

So, I'll say it once again: it's all up to you.

[Isabellkya]

I think I mentioned in my second trial post about voting on the trial day; and how kind of silly it is. Yes having it where the wolves don't know who each other are yet, makes it a bit more honest I would think. People could actually voice their suspicions based off of that - suspicions; rather than trying to make a case for someone purely because they are not a wolf.. and there fore must be lynched. With that, it kind of makes it hard to track how people thought of each other. With everyone knowing that the wolves know each other, behavior patterns can change. Naturally you don't want to lynch a fellow wolf, so you adjust accordingly. It sounds like I just talked in a circle.

- Just looked back while I typed this, and I must've said the post in my head and not actually posted about voting.

So I'm thinking of who is more suspicious; Rikae or Green and this thought occured to me. I think it has been sitting in my subconscious and just now found a way to come out. With now knowing who fellow wolves are, it seems it would be easier for the wolf to hide. There are three of us here, and to escape a lynch for a couple of the proceeding days, all you had to do was be vocal and show up.

For both of you I find points and arguments sensible and logical.. merely that I find a perfect hiding ground for a wolf. I'll explain; many a time I've come across the wily wolf. One whom is very logical and actually helps the ordo's; a somewhat risky yet very sneaky place to hide.

[Rikae]

Greenie, your analysis really only confirms my suspicions - although it's a shame, as you seem like a fun person to play WW with.

But really, talk about neutrality! There is a textbook example of fabricated suspicions and wolfish caution, if I ever saw it - especially since she switches her main suspect in the next post without mentioning that I voted for her.

[Isabellkya]

Ack. I don't like being in this position.

I am inclined to vote for Rikae; because she is a very dangerous person to have as a wolf, yet is very logical and sensible.. and I'm finding it hard to find something which points to her being suspicious in this game.

Green, I just have no read on..and am inclined to vote for her because a no-read wolf can be dangerous.

++Greenie

Mainly for her talking about lynching and suspicion being heavier on those from the trial day. accck

[Volo]

The last day of the first stage began. The weather was calm, sunny and only small threads of clouds swam far away in the sky. As nice as it was in a politically correct manner, some of the audience couldn’t bear the heat and cursed the day. Those who did so, were quickly removed from the living world by a travelling company of Worshipers of Universal Solar Deities that just happened to be goofing around. And they sure were lucky to be around, because unknowingly they would encounter Izz E. Yumme, the QuiteQuietestQuiter, who was once a worshiper of the solar deity Shakuru, and a member of the organization.

While her friends were ridding the world of heretics, Izz E. Yumme was enjoying a drink of Jägermeister with Rikae of Europe. ”What is this mythical land of Europe?” asked Izz with genuine interest.

”It is a secret, but I feel that I can trust you not tell it to anybody”, answered Rikae and continued with a whisper into Izz’s ear, ”Europe is a hidden land of much wealth. It lies where Gondolin once lay”.

”Oooh…” gasped Izz in awe, as she was quite interested in history and geography herself. She moved to ask Rikae about their national drink, but was interrupted by A Little Green Man who had sneaked right up to the two.

”Hullo then, Rikae and Izz!” he rasped because he had forgot to clear his throat first. He cleared it now, took off his little green hat and stood on it. ”Nothing to say really, except that I’m a very busy little green man and will be working off with a little green film. The Little Green Man stepped off his little green and put it on his head. With a bow, he rushed away.

”Ok, no problem- Rikae, as I was about to say, what is the national drink of Europe?”

Rikae took a sip of Jägermeister, ”Strangely it isn’t this medicine stuff but basic beer. Not that European beer is bad – it’s nearly as good as Mineralwasser, which is a drink that isn’t even exported out of Europe…”

”A pity… Hey, I know. Let’s rate tha performances of previous battles! I liked Menel best from the first battle!” Izz suggested.

Rikae thought for a while and agreed, ”Sure, why not. You know I actually also liked Menel most. He’s quite bold!” She took a sip and changed her position. ”It’s a pity Roa fell to her death in the second battle, she was one of the most talented fighters I’ve ever seen.”

”Weird, I personally thought that the second battle was more of joke than anything, and since you mentioned Roa, I think she was quite jumpy and hasty… Equally sad that Shasta and Mighty Rog didn’t manage to survive”. Izz sighed and poured herself more Jägermeister.

”I don’t really know what to say about the third battle, it looked lazy. Might be because of the bad weather, of course. Erm… The fourth battle was no better, none of the warriors managed to convince me”. Rikae wanted to add that the fifth battle was more like a tea party than a battle, but luckily noticed that neither she nor Izz was holding a sword, but a little glass. She took another sip and poured some more.

”Umm, yeah… I think I’ve had enough”, Izz said, but Rikae poured her some more.

”Drink up, it’s better than medicine to your health. Cheers! To our health, hehe!”

-----------~~

By the time A Little Green Man returned, the Jäger and the woman from Europe were sleeping back to back. He took off his little green hat, took his little green grapes from his little green hat and sat on it. While having his little green lunch, he pondered about the two in the end deciding that Izz is more suspicious than Rikae. He walked up to Rikae and shook her shoulder.

Rikae turned to her side with a loud snore and mumbled something like, ”*unclear* Izz *unclear* best friend *snore* Green Man kill…”

A Little Green Man jumped back with his little green heart beating a little too fast. He moved to wake up Izz. ”Honorable Izz E. Yumme, it makes me cry little green tears to say this to you, but Rikae, whom you regarded as a friend, betrayed you. While you were sleeping, she tried to steal your Pint of Jäger”.

Izz woke up with a start. ”What? Where? Who? Jäger? –meister?” She tried to fix her gaze on the little green man, but couldn’t decide which one of the many little green men was A Little Green Man and not just any little green man. She turned her eyes away and took a few deep breaths. Her head cleared just enough to see that something was going on. ”Wait a sec! You say that Rikae tried to steal my Pint of Jäger? But she’s sleeping there just as I left her…” …after stealing her dreaded ”ch” just in case. ”You’re trying to confuse me, green man!”

”It’s a little green m-”

”I don’t care! Leave me alone, I’m tired!” Izz tried to whipe away the unnecessary many little green men from her view, but by accident hit the one and only real A Little Green Man.

A Little Green Man struggled to regain his balance and retreated a few steps backwards. He felt a little green pain in his nose. As if a little green fluid was trickling down his little green left nostril. He raised his little green hand to whipe away the little green fluid…

When he looked at his little green hand he saw a little red stripe on it. His little green eyes grew large as he screamed. He raised his little nearly-green hand to his nose again and put a little green finger just below his little green left nostril. When he opened his little green eyes to look at his little green finger, he sa w that it wasn’t green at all, little – yes. It was red! Red! He screamed again and woke up the two from their sleep. ”It cannot be! It just can’t be true! A little green me can’t be red inside! It is impossible! It is-!” His voice turned into a rasp and he had a fit of hysterical coughing,

A Little Green Man crying loudly. Neither of the two others dared to say anything. After an unnaturally loud scream, Rikae reached for her Jägermeister bottle with her shaking hand and poured some medicine straight into her mouth.

”A Little Green Man can’t be red inside! No, no, no, nononononoooo! *sob* I am not worth living! I have to kill myself to save the world from suffering! *sob*” The little green/red man ran to his to little green tent where he kept all his belongings and pulled his just-little-enough-to-be-called-little green cannon out of it. He rushed to get little green gunpowder and pushed a little green sack of it into the cannon. He took a little green match out of his pocket and lit the fuse. The last thing he ever did was to get his little green/red body into the just-little-enough-to-be-called-little green cannon.

KABUUM!

The Lentokonesuihkuturbiinimoottoriapumekaanikkoaliups eerioppilas flew straight at the moon. He tried to stay calm and put on his little green goggles on before getting his little green turbine out of his little green pocket. He turned on the turbine and turned his flight course by a few inches. He wouldn’t hit the moon after all.

When he finally passed the moon, its gravitation took hold of him. With the help of his little green turbine he slowly descended on to the dark side of the moon.

-----------~~

During the night between the first and the second part of the competition Sauron entered the arena himself and called for his minions. They came and their talk was full of joy to greet their master and the full moon.

”Why can’t we just go and kill all of them right now? They’re all sleeping deep! We would dig out their hearts and ate them before they noticed anything happening!” a brave Wolf shouted.

”You’re a fool to say that! There are too many of them even for us, are there not, Lord Sauron?” snapped another.

Sauron grimaced and answered through his teeth. ”You are correct! There are only five of you, whereas there are still six who would die for the Valar. Curse that Queen! She still serves Eru and yet she is too important to be removed. And even if we did get rid of her, it would be too late”.

”Master! We shall go and kill her right now, even if that won’t help, she still deserves it!”

”No! There is one person who is even a bigger threat to you at the moment. It thinks that it is safe from us, but there has been a change in my plans! Your target is…”

-----------~~

Around:
Brinniel
THE Ka
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
McCaber
Nogrod
Thinlómien
Valier
Meneltarmacil
Kath
Naria
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Isabellkya
Rikae
Ugh-Friedrich (host)

Gone:
Legate of Amon Lanc - lynched on Day0.1 - teleported away
Roa_Aoife - lynched on Day0.2 - joined the dance
Shastanis Althereduin - lynched on Day0.3 - reincarnated as the first Man
The Might - lynched on Day0.4 - escorted away and sailed away
Gil-Galad - lynched on Day0.5 - disappeared in a gate to a different world
Groin Redbeard - lynched on Day0.6 - returned to where he came from
A Little Green - lynched on Day0.7 - ended up on the moon

---------~~

Stage1 is over! Congratulations to the survivors and thanks to everybody who participated in experimenting this format!

Night1 began!

The Wolves will be revealed their fellows and may PM one another.

Specials do whatever you do.

Don't post in the thread.

[Volo]

Two men were talking in the end of a narrow dark alley. Both were dressed in a dark blue suit. It was a coincidence, or rather it was caused by the current trend. However the larger man had his jacket opened and a beard while the other had a striped tie and a hat. Both had glasses. This, again, was a coincidence, although one of the men had brilliant sight.

Four Werewolves hid at the other end of the alley behind an overturned rubbish container. They were waiting impatiently for the fifth Werewolf who had promised to meet the others here. While three Wolves were nibbling at the remains of their lousy dinner, a rat, one spied on what the two men were doing. The men weren’t actually doing anything, they just stood there. Once in a while the bearded man looked at his watch.

”I really hope they’re not waiting for another one. We got specific orders not to harm anyone else”, hissed one of the Wolves.

”Yes, yes. Though we do have time, I doubt they will walk out of here together”, another answered.

”You are right… But still, we were told that the other one is dangerous”, the third said.

”Silence! Now, look, something’s happening”, the Wolf on the lookout whispered. The three others quickly gathered around it.

The man in the tie looked at his watch and nodded. He lifted a briefcase from the ground and handed it to the stout man. The stout man took it quickly with two hands that were shivering with greed. He thanked the other man by dropping to his knees and was about to kiss his hand, when the other turned away and left. He was walking at the Wolves.

The leader of the pack hissed, ”Don’t let him notice us. Hide”.

The man passed the tense Wolves without looking to his sides. He walked to the end of the alley where it met another alley, turned right and disappeared behind the corner.

The Wolves counted to ten and then sighed deep. They looked at the man who had the briefcase. He seemed to be in a hurry but uncertain of the way he should go. Whatever he was doing, he was about to leave.

”Drat, how late can one be… Ok! I think it’s time to go!”

The four Wolves jumped from behind the rubbish container and rushed at the man. He nearly dropped his briefcase in fright. He ran to the building on the left side of the alley and opened the unlocked door. The Wolves didn’t see what happened there but for some reason the man turned back and ran to the middle of the alley again. He gathered courage and shouted to Wolves, ”I’ll never tell you the password, it’s useless!”

The Wolves closed in around him as he tightened his embrace on the briefcase. The fifth Wolf walked out from the opened door and entered the circle. ”Sorry for that, I got lost on the way and thought to rather be somewhere here on time than late”.

The leader nodded and moved to the horrified man. ”What’s your name?”

”P-p-peter”.

”Hmm…” The Wolf lifted a small piece of cloth to its nose and sniffed at it. It then compared the smell with the man.

”It’s him!” cried the Wolf triumphantly and slit open his throat.

-----------~~

In a week, all newspapers wrote about the disappearance of an important cultural figure.

In a month, the police found a tightly sealed briefcase in the middle of a dark narrow alley.

-----------~~

The second stage of the battles would have started today, but when the 14 warriors entered the arena, there was no sigh of audience. This couldn’t have been anything but a cruel joke.

-----------~~

Around:
Brinniel
THE Ka
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
McCaber
Nogrod
Thinlómien
Valier
Meneltarmacil
Kath
Naria
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Isabellkya
Rikae

Gone:
Legate of Amon Lanc - lynched on Day0.1 - teleported away
Roa_Aoife - lynched on Day0.2 - joined the dance
Shastanis Althereduin - lynched on Day0.3 - reincarnated as the first Man
The Might - lynched on Day0.4 - escorted away and sailed away
Gil-Galad - lynched on Day0.5 - disappeared in a gate to a different world
Groin Redbeard - lynched on Day0.6 - returned to where he came from
A Little Green - lynched on Day0.7 - ended up on the moon
Ugh-Friedrich - wasn't allowed to enter the temple after stage1

---------~~

Night1 ended, Day1 began.

Wolves, stop PM'ing.

You may now discuss!

[Nogrod]

Always look at the bright side of life they say...

*tries*

Well, no kill then... so we're not worse off than we were before the Night...

*tries even harder*

We have better chances to hit a wolf when they form more than 1/3 of our numbers... :rolleyes:

*fails*


Uh-oh.

I've been in tight situations with werewolves but this looks pretty nasty indeed. With five votes they can do basically anything they wish as they have the knowledge.

We should stay in one line and not waver to lynch one of them - as they can in practise counter-vote us if they wish - but then again if they get us to go band-waggoning a wrong person they can hide in as well.

And we can't afford too many wrong decisions. In the worst case two mislynches will be the end of this.

The specials should consider their way of playing accordingly as this is no normal Day1 but merely the possible second last Day.

Okay. I try to be more cheerful soon as I get down to looking at people and what happened in the trials.

[Thinlómien]

"Good morning, fellow glad-iators", Thinlómien grinned. Then her grin faded. "Five wolves? That's a bit too much, much more than I expected to see here, not to mention my personal preferences of how much of them should be alive at this stage of the game. Maybe the lynch-the-quiet doesn't always work. ;) Anyway, I'm afraid we're in serious trouble. They're going to outnumber us quite soon." She frowned.

"Anyway, I've been a-footbaging and watching the stars a little and I've started wondering who might be evil in our gang. Here's what I've been thinking and something to chew for you:

Legate, Menel and Valier
Well. They all seem quite wolvish, for different reasons. And they all actually acted how they normally do. However, I always suspect Menel's normal style and he usually turns up innocent, so I'd be hesitant to make conclusions about him too quickly this time. Legate or Valier then? Difficult question, but if I had to guess, I'd say Valier, she feels eeriely furry to me while my suspicion of Legate is more reason-based. (Lol, almost wrote "she makes me feel eeriely furry" :D.)

McCaber, Naria and Roa
A tough one. I've reread her posts and I think Roa sounded quite innocent after all, so my suspicions lay with McCaber and Naria, especially the one mentioned first, as Naria, even though looked bad, felt innocentish.

Agan, Ka and Shasta
This is more than a bit tough. Nothing can be really said about Shasta, but he mostly strikes me as ordoish. So Agan or Ka? Honestly, I have no clue. They both seem quite innocent to me. I have absolutely no reasons to suspect Agan, except maybe her feeble case against me and well, from previous experiences I should know never to trust her... But Ka seems just as innocent. Or, rather, Agan seems both less and more innocent than THE Ka, if you know what I mean.

Lommy, Might and Noggie
Well, I am (was) an innocent and I am saying this right now simply because that might help the good side win in the end. So good luck!This convinced me of his innocence. So thereby Nogrod must be a wolf. Nice pretense of innocence, too bad you got caught. :cool:

sally, Kath and Gil-Galad
This Day was just agreeing and nice chit-chattering and it left me absolutely clueless of the wolf's identity. I have no idea which of these three is a wolf, I'd need a few more rereads to form an opinion. Let's hope I'll have time to do that.

Azaelia, Brinniel and Groin
I'm quite sure Groin was innocent and it was no good he was lynched. Let's just hope he wasn't a gifted. Zali still strikes me as very fishy and her somewhat nonsense-seeming analyses didn't help at all. Brinn improved her reasonableness from Day0, but I'm still quite undecided on which of them is the wolf.

A Little Green, Isabellkya and Rikae
I think the wolf in the lot is Izzie - not because she's suspicious, but because both Rikae and Greenie seemed genuinely innocent to me both on Day0 and on their trial Day. Rikae makes points a wolf would probably not make and Greenie seemed totally different from her last game where she was a wolf, not nervous or willing to please or nonsensical at all.

So, in conclusion, I'm fairly sure Nogrod is a wolf. Others who are at the top of my possibly-should-be-lynched list are Valier, Zali and Izzie. But I'm sure toDay will shed some more light on how the things stand atm and who is who.

Now, what do you others think? Come out with your thoughts, little birdsies and squirrels and wolvsies and give us something to analyse."

edit: xed with Nogrod

[Nogrod]

I have a pretty strong opinion on three groups from the trials.

Valier
Meneltarmacil
Legate of Amon Lanc - lynched on Day0.1

Even if I didn't find Menel or Valier exactly innocentish I have reasons to believe that Legate was the wolf there which would then set Menel and Valier as innocents. I've argued this already on Day0.0 and during my trial so I'm not repeating it here at least for the time being.

Someone asked why Legate made all those postings about his innocense after he knew he was going to die, what was there to gain for him if he were a wolf? A lot indeed. If we had a strong opinion of his innocense we would be heavily on Menel and Valier toDay while indeed I think we should not as they are more probably innocents.

McCaber
Naria
Roa_Aoife - lynched on Day0.2

I'm still of the opinion that Roa was a gifted - and am afraid she was a seer (one of them?) as that might just be the only role important enough to make Roa try to play it more safely.

That would mean that either McCaber or Naria is a wolf. I guess one might find reasons to suspect either of them. I need to look that Day more closely later.

Nogrod
Thinlómien
The Might - lynched on Day0.4

I find it hard to believe that The Might would have committed a suicide if he were a wolf. Sure everything's possible but if (and when) I have to bet on it I'd say that he was no wolf. And as I know I'm no wolf either the equation becomes pretty simple: Lommy is a wolf.

Also Lommy's way of playing in the trial and the way she reacted to the Might's self-vote just look as wolfy as one can look.


So this leaves me with a preliminary stance that looks like follows:

innocents:
Menel
Valier

50-50 wolf:
McCaber
Naria

wolf:
Lommy

If you think there are problems with my points please come forwards. I'm just happy to change my suspicions if you show them to be incorrect or unfounded.

I'll be back after I do some rereading...

EDIT: X'd with Lommywolf

[Thinlómien]

Eh, nice Wolfgrod. Seems like we'll spend this Day arguing as well. :D As if I didn't see it coming, though. :rolleyes:

Let's not start our argument right now, though, since I'm going to sleep now. It might take me as much as 15 hours to get back online again.

Hope to see a flood of posts from everyone when I come back. ;)

PS. I forgot to mark the x-post of my previous post. Not that I think it really matters...

[Nogrod]

Let's not start our argument right now, though, since I'm going to sleep now.I don't need to argue that case anymore with you as I know how things are. Sorry Lommy. :rolleyes: I may explain my reasons why I think also those who don't know it should see it but that's another matter. :)

But added to that your style toDay is somewhat false to be honest. You're kind of over-happy and nice, almost cooing. I myself dislike the arguments that go like "she's not playing like she usually does" when thrown around for lack of better things to say but somehow I sense nervousness you try to hide behind that babble. And then you lose your concepts like saying that you had forgotten to mark an x'posting while you didn't forget it...

But I'll take a break now and come back after a while.

[Nogrod]

C'mon people... This is no Day0.4!

[Meneltarmacil]

I can neither confirm nor deny that Legate was innocent, myself. I'm a bit wary of Valier for now, but I'll turn my attention to the Lommy-Nogrod thing at this point.

You say, Nogrod, that Lommy must be a Wolf since you clearly aren't one. Yet I'm afraid I cannot blindly trust you on that. What evidence do you have that could point toward your innocence?

[Nogrod]

I'll turn my attention to the Lommy-Nogrod thing at this point.Well do not. This was just what I feared that might happen because we have been the loudmouths this far.

But let me tell you why - I've been thinking for some time now whether I should say this and indeed decided to do it at some point but as I need to go to sleep now and others might think the same as you Menel; focusing on myself and Lommy for lynching then we'd really do bad toDay. We need to lynch someone else than myself or Lommy toDay!

Okay.

I'm a Guardian. I have a license to kill one wolf on my own.

I will take care of Lommy the next Night. With these numbers we need the advantage the extra kill gives us. It can give us one more Day indeed.*

Why should you believe me and not Lommy?

I'll deliver you the goods the next Night. If I were a wolf I couldn't do that and then you could lynch me toMorrow and get rid of one wolf thus gaining you an extra Day as well. So you lose nothing by believing me as there will be a dead wolf in any possible scenario you might come up with.

But getting an extra wolf-kill requires that we do not lynch Lommy but that you leave her to me (obviously you shouldn't lynch me either toDay... :p).

That's why we need to get another wolf than Lommy toDay as our lynchee. So we need to concentrate on other people toDay. Understand?

Why I'm so ready to offer myself out in the open this soon? Looking at the situation we're in that's the only decent thing I can do as I have the means to actually ease our situation with gaining us an extra wolf-kill. And with Lommy I'm pretty sure. With someone else it might be riskier to try.


* With the worst scenario (we lynching innocents and wolves succesfully killing one innocent during Nights) we will be at 5-8 after this Day, 5-7 toMorrow morning, 5-6 after Day2 and after the wolf-kill during the Night 5-5 in the morning of Day3 and thence all dead. Following the worst scenario as well: if you let me handle Lommy the next Night it will be 5-4 in the morning of Day3 and we/you still have a chance to continue at least one Day... and if you think I lied to you? You lynch me on Day2 and you still have 5-4 on the morning of Day3.

EDIT: the last two ratios should obviously read 4-5 and not 5-4 to follow the logic of the earlier ratios... But anyway: giving me a shot with Lommy the innocents gain one more Day.

[Meneltarmacil]

Thank you, Nogrod. And I'm sorry about the focusing-on-you two thing; it's just that in discussing the Legate/Valier thing, I do have a reason to think that Legate was telling the truth, but going into it could have hurt me considerably and I couldn't be sure whether Legate was coming up with a bold lie.

That said, I think it may be time to reveal what's happening. I am the Protector, and as such I know that one of two things are going on:
-Legate was a lying Wolf, and Valier is innocent.
-Legate was telling the truth, and Valier is the Wolf.

This should at least help in narrowing down the possibilities for my Day's suspects. I don't know if lynching Valier is a good idea right now, but with her we will have a 50-50 chance of killing a Wolf.

And I think I'll be protecting you toNight, Nogrod, so you'll at least get the chance to survive for toMorrow.

[Nogrod]

Okay, sorry to floodpost but I was writing this when Menel came forwards. And as I said we need other candidates so let's see if this helps anyone else but me to get a picture of the possibilities we face.

So continuing with the speculation...

If I'm right about Legate and Roa (or even if I have them the wrong way around) it would mean that there is one wolf and three innocents in the group of the dead:
Shasta
Gil
Groin
Greenie

To begin with I'd say that Shasta is/was innocent. That would leave Agan and The Ka as 50-50 chances of being wolves.

With Gil there's nothing. That leaves Sally and Kath as questionmarks entirely then on the grounds of the lynched giving us clues.

Groin might have been the wolf indeed as one looks at Lommywolf's posting: I'm quite sure Groin was innocent and it was no good he was lynched. Let's just hope he wasn't a gifted. Zali still strikes me as very fishy and her somewhat nonsense-seeming analyses didn't help at all. Brinn improved her reasonableness from Day0, but I'm still quite undecided on which of them is the wolf.So let's keep these two (Zali and Brinn) looking suspicious as they are both innocents? Check also the sentence I bolded... somehow this makes me feel very uneasy about this "analysis". Why did she say that as I don't think Groin looked especially gifted? So she thought pointing towards Zali and Brinn more pressingly ("we might have lost a gifted there!") would be nice as the wolf in that trio was killed already? So they are innocents then?

Grounded on the same reasoning I'd also look carefully about the option of Greenie having been a wolf: I think the wolf in the lot is Izzie - not because she's suspicious, but because both Rikae and Greenie seemed genuinely innocent to me both on Day0 and on their trial Day. Rikae makes points a wolf would probably not make and Greenie seemed totally different from her last game where she was a wolf, not nervous or willing to please or nonsensical at all.But with this I'm more insecure than with the previous one as this might also be read as trying to help Rikae if she was a wolf. Or even implying Izzie is one indeed ("not because she's suspicious")... At the moment I'd think Greenie was more likely an innocent as the case with Groin being a wolf looks far more believable. So Rikae and Izzie a 50-50 case as well? Or then I'm wrong with Legate which sure is possible even if I don't believe it at least yet...

But that's still speculation as Lommy could well make her "analysis" pointing at some fellows as looking evil and trying to help others saying / implying they are goodies - and that will turn around after we learn she was a wolf and thus adds the question whether she had that possibility of an imminent death in view aleeady when she wrote these...). Sadly they can afford these kind of tactical manouvres now with five of them around.

Anyhow that was only something based on the deaths, logical outcomes based on other speculations and Lommy's analysis. We need to check the actual postings as well.


~*~

So my take on people at this point - without a closer look on the posts themselves (I'll be back tomorrow (RL) but will have a long day at work so I can take more time here only during the last three-four hours or so):

Wolf
Lommy (not to be lynched but killed on Night2 by me)

50-50 wolves (either one of each pair is a wolf)
Agan
The Ka

McCaber
Naria

Rikae?
Izzy?

33% wolves / 66% innocents
Sally
Kath

innocents?
Zali
Brinniel

Menel
Valier

There are a lots of questions here and these speculations surely stand on other speculations. The actual posts surely matter more but these kinds of "limiting-possibilities" should be looked after as well.

I'll be back much later - with a look at all those masses of posts you will produce while I'm away... :)

EDIT: X'd with Menel

[Brinniel]

C'mon people... This is no Day0.4!
Wait...it's not? Oh okay, I guess I better post then. ;)

On a more serious note, I was expecting to see this duel between Lommy and Nogrod. Because I'm quite sure Might was innocent (why would a wolf commit suicide), therefore one of them has to be a wolf. But which one to believe?

I think it's more likely that Nogrod here is telling the truth since I've found Lommy to be more suspicious since Day 0.6...her reaction to Might's suicide seemed to come out of nervousness of being found out...and toDay suddenly she changes her mind and says she figures Might must be innocent after all. Very wolfy indeed.

But here's my dilemma:

-Werewolves and the Guardian will be told of their victim's role if the attack is successful.
Doesn't that mean only the wolves and the Guardian will know the role of the victim? I don't know...maybe I'm interpreting this wrong. :confused:

But getting an extra wolf-kill requires that we do not lynch Lommy but that you leave her to me
The problem is if we don't know the roles of the Nightly victims, how are we supposed to know whether Lommy was a wolf or not once she was actually killed? For all we know, you could be the wolf, Nogrod. Then all you'd have to do is kill Lommy tomorrow Night and say that as a guardian you successfully attacked her. So, how are we to believe you for sure?

Since I think Lommy's pretty suspicious anyway, I think the best option is to lynch her toDay so we all know for sure whether she's a wolf or not. Then we'll know for sure if we can trust Nogrod. There's a protector out there somewhere who could protect him...and give him another chance to attack a wolf.

EDIT: X-ed with Menel and Nogrod

[Nogrod]

And I think I'll be protecting you toNight, Nogrod, so you'll at least get the chance to survive for toMorrow.Thanks.

Although I'm not sure why you had to say that aloud. We might have just had a tiny chance the wolves would have tried to kill me the next Night while I was indeed protected and thus the Night would not have only brought us a dead wolf but also no dead innocents... well it was slight chance to be sure as I do believe that our wolves would take that into consideration. But a chance anyway.

But as we have started this kind of game let's continue it then. So please Menel think about your choice of protection still. There might be others you might wish to protect as well. Let's not keep it a sealed thing.

And if we have another protector as well then do choose someone else... Let's not waste two protections on me... or let's try to protect two totally other people so that either of you could help me over the next Night.

But let us quit this speculation now.

Let the wolves think about these choices! :smokin:

EDIT: X'd with Brinn

[Brinniel]

Oh shoot, I just noticed this...

-During Stage2 the role of the lynched player will be revealed to a living player chosen by random.org.


Okay, maybe my idea won't work after all...

But how are we supposed to trust anyone who reveals a lynched player's role? For all we know, that random person could be a lying wolf..

On a similar note, how are we supposed to trust anyone who says they are a gifted? With five wolves and six gifteds, I have a feeling that a lot more people going to be revealing. At this point, it's hard to tell if anyone is lying about their role or not. We don't even know how many of which gifted there are...

[Nogrod]

*I was about to go to sleep...*

But here's my dilemma:
-Werewolves and the Guardian will be told of their victim's role if the attack is successful.
Doesn't that mean only the wolves and the Guardian will know the role of the victim? I don't know...maybe I'm interpreting this wrong.My first reaction to that was "Where did that come from?" but after I checked the admin. thread I saw it standing there quite clearly... and I'm afraid you interpret it just correctly even if it sounds a counterintuitive rule. Hopefully Volo could clear that issue for us.

And I thought my plan would be foolproof... :rolleyes:

With five wolves around steering the general opinion and in the worst case only two Days to play this was most unfortunate. Sorry I didn't realise that. My bad. :(


Oh my... just saw this...

Oh shoot, I just noticed this...

-During Stage2 the role of the lynched player will be revealed to a living player chosen by random.org.
Okay, maybe my idea won't work after all...Maybe I should concentrate on checking the rules instead of acting... :)

It's 2.20 AM here and I have an early morning call.


~*~

But whatever you do I will take Lommy with me if I die.

If you let me do it by Night there will be two deaths by the Night as I don't think the wolves would leave one Night without a kill just to frame me. If I was a wolf I couldn't twist the rules to gain the wolves two kills. But that requires you will not lynch Lommy or me toDay. That I still think is our best option.

If you lynch Lommy we get rid of one wolf even if that can't be shown 100% to anyone.

If you think lynching me is a good idea I will take a wolf with me anyhow.

Your choice and my bedtime.

EDIT: bolded my actual suggestion...

[satansaloser2005]

Sally returned from her quest for food and as she neared the group of warriors heard snippets of arguments and proclamations of valor.
"I believe Noggie to be a hairy one!" cried Lommie, to which Noggie promptly retorted "Ah, but you are mistaken, my little wolfie one, for I am the guardian of whom you have all been told. Tonight perhaps you shall be re-united with your hairy little dead friends." Lommie and Noggie quickly ceased their arguing, as enel came forward saying that Legate's death was not in vain, for it seemed to seal the guilt of Val. He then whipped out a batch of herbs right as Sally walked into the group's midst and began to apply them to a cut on Sally's hand that she had somehow managed to sustain in her earlier battle. She wrenched away at first, suspecting some sort of treachery, but Menel kindly reached for her hand again and continued applying his ointments, assuring everyone that he was one of the Protectors of the warriors. Sally was no doubt in awe of what she had just heard from the group and, once Menel finished bandaging her hand, turned away from the group and walked off into a corner to think, ponder, and speak to her dainty duck, who had accompanied her earlier in the day and was in great need of rest. "I can barely believe my ears," Sally thought to herself. "So much revealed in so little time. Emily, I think we must retire and mull over this strange business of outspoken gifteds and brazen wolves. Besides, I must return my utensils and saucepan to my chambers." The little duck looked up at her mistress and, being clueless herself at the moment, could only reply with a confused and exhausted "Honk."



Okay, so I am going to be late for church, but I decided I'd have a little fun before I left. I'll be back later for some posts that exercise my reason rather than my imagination.

[Nogrod]

Sorry I repeat myself but it looks like we're going the way against our interests and playing to the hands of the wolves. But let's see the two kills on the next Night and lynch another wolf than Lommy toDay.

You'll have the proof there and nothing to lose.

---
And if you see the sense in what I say you should lend your minds to other candidates pretty soon.

That sadly would require some work from you other innocents and not only taking the easy way of discussing the thing that has opened because certain other people have been active. And if we lose on laziness... well that's deserved then.

[THE Ka]

Just wished to update what I said on the discussion thread, I won't be able to appear tonight because wednesday as a rule is the busiest day of the week for me. I'm terribly sorry about this, as it is annoying. :( I will be able to in the morning, which should be a few hours before night two.
I've been reading posts as much as time will allow me, so, hopefully I won't be as clueless as I am now, tomorrow.

Also, just curious, why are some of the specials giving their positions away? I'm confused, I thought... Ugh. This makes things difficult for me, and probably a few others as well.
Oh well, this is the first time I've played a game where specials gave positions away. I guess there is a first time for such things.
I still have no clue as of yet, but I might soon.

Well, just wished to check in, and let all of you still around that I haven't disappeared or want to be killed off more than anyone else.

~ Ka

[Rikae]

Well, if we can trust both Menel and Nogrod, I will eat my hat. Nogrod's case is fishy enough, what with the fact that roles won't be revealed upon death - but what kind of Ranger reveals on Day 1? I suppose it may just be a major blunder on Menel's part, but it doesn't look good to me at all. Still, from their day in the ring together, I found Valier the most suspicious of the group... at any rate, I suggest that tangled mess is one best left to the seer(s) for the moment, when there are other trios which offer slightly better odds of finding a wolf at this point, I suppose.

McCaber and Naria need to be looked at - as I said before, I found McCaber's non-vote and response to Roa's vote creepy, and I would very much like an explanation from him.

Shasta, I think, was a very likely ordo, and therefore a wolf should be found between Ka and Aganzir... however, that's a tough call. Nogrod, I would like to know why you are so convinced that Greenie was innocent - although I am not as confident about her guilt as about Gil and TM's innocence (I doubt very highly wolves would behave as they did), I certainly found her behavior yesterday - especially at the end of the day - wolfish. As for it being different from her last wolvish performance, that was her first game and I have little doubt Greenie is a quick learner.

I don't particularly like the way Sally posted in the trial and is posting now. Sure, in-character is fine, but too much is too much - and I have an instinctive distrust for "cutesy"ness in a werewolf game. Her posts seem calculated to create an aura of harmlessness.


Someone asked why Legate made all those postings about his innocense after he knew he was going to die, what was there to gain for him if he were a wolf? A lot indeed. If we had a strong opinion of his innocense we would be heavily on Menel and Valier toDay while indeed I think we should not as they are more probably innocents.

Wait just a minute here. How do we get from Legate having a lot to gain as a wolf from declaring his innocence (true, he would, but an innocent could just as well do it in a last attempt to help the village), to Menel and Valier probably being both innocent (ie, Legate was probably a wolf)? Both of them look more wolfish than Legate in my eyes, and though I've said I think they're best left for later, I think you ought to explain this a little further, day 0.0 suspicions notwithstanding.

I also don't think that Lommy's words about Groin are much evidence of anything either - if she is a wolf, she certainly realises she's cornered and is capable of coming up with double or triple bluffs as she sees fit. Groin's behavior looked innocentish to me at any rate, while Zali's was quite the opposite and Brinn's somewhere between. I'm not about to toss aside my own judgement on the word of one self-proclaimed gifted based on that of a possible cornered wolf, and I strongly suggest that we all analyze our suspects as thoroughly as possible toDay, and not take anyone's word without a grain of salt. Actually, I would always advise that, but especially now, as the setup of this game makes false gifted revelations too easy, and the numbers mean the stakes for this day one lynch are incredibly high.

Actually, we really need to think carefully about this Nogrod/Lommy situation. I have no doubt that one of the two is a wolf... and I certainly find Lommy more evil-feeling of the two. However, if Nogrod is not dead toMorrow, we have to lynch him, regardless of Lommy's role, which we won't know for certain anyway - because if he was the wolf and we let him live toMorrow, we lose the game.

Well, that's a bit of a ramble, and I'm not sure what conclusions I can come to at any rate. It's difficult to be forced to ignore four people among whom you are almost certain two wolves can be found - but I guess I will examine days 0.3, 0.5, and 0.6 more closely. The three lynched on those days look decidedly ordoish (and it does appear that mostly ordos were lynched in the trials), so looking at the survivors should be fruitful; the trio on day 0.2 is one I don't really feel so confident about - any of them could be a wolf - so I'll leave it alone for now.

We've heard so little from so many people at this point, finding a wolf outside of the Lommy/Nogrod/Menel/Valier circle still feels very much like a shot in the dark - I certainly hope we get some serious participation toDay, as we need it! I will be back with whatever I can discover about Agan, Ka, Sally, Kath, Brinn and Zali (although it may not be right away, as I'm dreadfully busy, the spring semester having just begun).

Off the top of my head and instinct alone, I think that of these six, Ka, Sally and Zali look the worst; Sally and Zali for reasons I already mentioned, and Ka mainly by default, as Aganzir's posting has been quite substantive in an innocent-feeling way, and truly substantive posting is the most difficult thing for wolves to pull off successfully, while Ka has taken refuge between a great deal of (entertaining, it's true) in-character posting. Yes, I hear Agan's a dangerous wolf (I wasn't in that game), but she feels innocent to me thus far.

EDIT: Added spaces between paragraphs, and crossed with Ka.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I'm willing to trust Noggie in this case, I think. He makes a very bold claim, but backs it up well. It could all be head games, but I don't think he'd dare us to call his bluff here: If you lynch Lommy we get rid of one wolf even if that can't be shown 100% to anyone.

If you think lynching me is a good idea I will take a wolf with me anyhow.

Your choice and my bedtime.

...unless he *really* meant it. It's too risky.

I am a bit perplexed as to why Menel would think it was a good idea to reveal. Why not just quietly do his job? All he's doing is risking his own neck this coming Night, unless the wolves want to perhaps discredit him (it's happened to rangers who revealed before).

Edit: 400th post! :D

[McCaber]

All right, I'm here. You say you want an explanation from me? Here it is.

Throughout the day I was working on one long reasoning/vote post. To make a long story short, my vote would have gone to Roa. Looking at the entire thread, I realized that she didn't really make arguments one way or another. We seemed to be allies of convenience, just because Naria wasn't there. She had no real reasons for her vote, except maybe to try and gain an ally. Naria, on the other hand, put her thoughts out there logically. She was desperate and sarcastic sounding, but I would be too in that situation. Her analyses made sense, and they really were much of what I was thinking. Concisely, Roa creeped me out. What she said really was not what I'd expect from a (by reputation) very good player.

I tried to post that then, but RL happened just at the wrong time for me.

Now, to current events. Out of Nogrod and Lommy, I also suspect Lommy. She seems to be trying to weasel her way out by casting suspicion on others. But there are a lot of other wolves out here, and we should start looking for them when we have a chance.

[Meneltarmacil]

The reason I revealed myself was to show why I thought Legate could be telling the truth, and to show that Valier is a possible wolf. Legate was very specific about being an Ordo, and I felt that revealing my role would help us catch the Wolf from that day. Of course, the possibility exists that Legate lied about his innocence, but with my role revealed the controversy of "Menel or Valier" ends and we have another "50/50 Wolf" with Valier.

[Naria]

Just got off work. This will be like last week. I will do a post before I go to bed, cast my vote before I go to work in the morning and not be around for the rest of the Day.

Looks like I have a bit to catch up on. Off to do some reading....

[satansaloser2005]

I don't particularly like the way Sally posted in the trial and is posting now. Sure, in-character is fine, but too much is too much - and I have an instinctive distrust for "cutesy"ness in a werewolf game. Her posts seem calculated to create an aura of harmlessness.

You know me. I like to enjoy myself. ;) By the way, just a word of warning, sometimes I just feel the need to give myself a little in-character action, so I'll occasionally post a silly little thingy in character just to get myself into the game so I can actually post. But I'm not just going to do character stuff, as you now know. :)



Okey dokey, I've read the posts and decided myself three lists of suspect pairs. Bear with me, because they're a little out there and a bit underdeveloped right now but I haven't slept in like 24 hours so I'm a little loopy....er. :p

Noggie and Menel: Wow. If they both came out as gifteds and are really wolves, not to mention if they pull it off, well....again, wow. Doubting that this is the case, but if it is....kill me now wolves, kill me now. You're just too snazzy for little Miss Sally.

Lommie and McCaber: Lommie seems quite suspicious right now, and since I'm rather tired and McCaber is one of my other suspects for just acting odd and the whole not-voting thing on his day I'll pair them together for now. Not that I necessarily think they are wolves TOGETHER, but I am pretty certain that one, if not both, are.

Lommie and Valier: Might doesn't seem the type to kill himself and leave his wolfy cohorts, so I take him for an innocent. And I believe Noggie, because....well, because it's Noggie I guess. If I'm wrong, I'll eat my proverbial hat. Which means Lommie's the only wolf candidate left from their day. But, I've already covered Lommie a bit and so have a couple other people, so I'll just leave her be after that brief comment and try to get on to others. Val, for instance. Now, assuming that Menel is indeed what he says he is, I definitely think Val to be the wolf in the group. I've not played that much with Legate, but I don't believe he would make that much of a fuss if he was a wolf. Anyway, if Menel is the gifted and Legate was the innocent, that (as has been pointed out) leaves Valier as the wolf.

My favorite pairing, just based on how likely it is, is probably Lommie and Val. Val seems to be the odd wolf out of her battle day, and since Lommie has been acting strange today (well, stranger than usual hehe) I'd have to say that my preferred vote would be for Valier, unless evidence surfaces to support a better choice. If, however, Noggie turns out to not be what he claims (and the same with Menel) heaven help us all, because we will have lost two innocents (possibly gifteds) and not yet found a furry fiend. But I'm willing to take that risk since Noggie seems convincing and reasonable, and process of elimination seems to suggest that the two women in question are wolfies.

Wow, I'm actually semi-coherent for once. Ish.

[Isabellkya]

I am not trusting these 'reveals'. With Legate, I did find his behavior wolfy; just not as wolfy as Valier's. Yet I would not put it past him to make such a bold move to reveal himself as a non-wolf upon his death. Quite often, when people absolutely know they will die.. they like to leave parting words to their fellows. In the case of dying wolves.. it is not unheard of for them to leave a parting monologue so as to confuse the village.

Nogrod's reveal, I just.. something doesn't feel right about it. It is too 'non-perfect'. When you go about making a plan, especially when it can involve your death; you want it fool proof; so as to not make a waste of it. Every detail is going to be scrutinized, yet if a bold wolf schemes in such a way; I would think that they wouldn't want it to look like they've covered evey single basis. Because it seems that villagers have the benefit of getting things wrong... of having a bit of doubt. (If that makes sense, it makes sense in my head.) Forgetting some crucial pieces of this game as he did.. it just feels wrong.

Menel's reveal, I just don't see the reason. It almost seems like he was wanting to ride the reveal coat-tail's of Nogrod.

[Volo]

-Werewolves and the Guardian will be told of their victim's role if the attack is successful.
The Wolves kill somebody at Night - the role of the dead player is revealed by PM to the Wolves.
The Guardian kills somebody at Night - the role of the dead player is revealed by PM to the Guardian.

-During Stage2 the role of the lynched player will be revealed to a living player chosen by random.org.
It may be a Wolf or an Innocent or a Special, it may be somebody who survives the Night and it may be somebody who doesn't.

[Nogrod]

Back with a clearer mind for a while aka I have slept...

Even if we won't know the roles of those dying my actions and death can prove a few things depending on how and when I die and what I can do.

When I die someone goes with me thus proving I was what I am. It all goes down to when do you want to know it and how much do you wish to gain.

If you lynch Lommy toDay you can't be sure what I am and what she were. Also you leave me much more insecure with my option on actively killing someone during the Night and I might blunder (dare not to try or get it wrong) the extra kill we could have.

If you can't wait for answers but need to know it toDay then lynch me. I can take Lommy with me as an extra price and you know what we both were.

But if you let me handle Lommy the next Night you'll find Lommy dead in the morning with someone else. So there will be two deaths by which you can see that I'm indeed your guardian and you can trust me. Then I have a chance to help you both with my thoughts and in the end possibly with hunting down one more wolf.

If there is only one kill during the Night it will be because either the Protector does save someone or the wolves try to frame me with not even trying to kill anyone. Now these would be great options! We'd have a Night with no dead innocents but a dead wolf instead.

Now if you wouldn't trust me then (after the Night with only Lommy killed) I'm more than happy to call for my own lynch toMorrow. I believe I'll have formed enough good ideas of people by then that I can confidently harvest one wolf down with me at the end of Day2.


So killing either me or Lommy toDay will gain us less while letting me a go with Lommy the next Night will make us gain more while not risking anything.

Think about that.

I'm not about to toss aside my own judgement on the word of one self-proclaimed gifted based on that of a possible cornered wolf, and I strongly suggest that we all analyze our suspects as thoroughly as possible toDay, and not take anyone's word without a grain of salt.I do agree 100%. And I'm already starting to rethink my opinon on Legate even if I'm not yet ready to change my view (his Day one start was so wolvish and he would have pulled that ending speech to lead us astray were he a wolf). Okay. I need to think it through.

[Nogrod]

Whatever the role of Legate was or the intention behind Menel's revealment I'm feeling those who have spoken on behalf of Legate's innocence more innocentish than not as there would surely be easier trios to try and stage someone who is actually innocent for lynching toDay.

Nogrod, I would like to know why you are so convinced that Greenie was innocentActually I'm not convinced about her innocence and I've never said I was. But looking at Lommy's posting toDay I find it more probable that Groin was a wolf and there aren't so many wolves we managed to lynch during the trials.

[Thinlómien]

Nogrod, you're evil. That is a very cunning ploy indeed and nice way of declaring oneself gifted without having to make up false seer dreams or anything else as messy and you can always back up your "revelation" with your wolf-kills. Also, pretty impressive way of killing a gifted off at night and still maintaining an "innocent" status. :rolleyes: Even a bit too neat, if you ask me.

*sigh* I had hoped to survive longer and to be of more assistance, but now that the wolves have found a way to kill me at Night without incriminating Nogrod, my game is played.

I'm a Defender. If the/a protector protects me next night, I can still be of some assistance. Besides Nogrod's obvious wolvery I know of one person's non-ordoness.

Do you wish me to come out with his/her name? I can redream of him/her next Night and if I survive, we'll have a second wolf spotted with good luck.

~*~

And then you lose your concepts like saying that you had forgotten to mark an x'posting while you didn't forget it...Come on... :rolleyes: Even wolves need to make a bit more credible arguments. What kind of "proof" is that? I thought I hadn't marked the cross-post, because when I was trying to submit the cross-post edit Mozilla became veeeeery slow (it didn't update the page in something like 5 minutes) so I closed the Mozilla window and opened IE and I assumed my edit had not been submitted since the Mozilla screen was closed when it was still showing the editing screen.

[Brinniel]

About Menel's reveal: I think his decision to reveal was overhasty. While I know there was some debate on which of the three is a wolf during the Stage 1 Days, it had hardly been discussed at the point when Menel revealed. He wasn't in any danger of getting lynched at the time, yet we was so eager to copy Nogrod's actions and reveal. But while I think his decision was overhasty and foolish, I'm not sure I actually find it wolfish. Because why would a wolf unnecessarily put himself on the spot like that? It'd be one thing if he were actually receiving votes, but that's certainly not the case...

If there is only one kill during the Night it will be because either the Protector does save someone or the wolves try to frame me with not even trying to kill anyone. Now these would be great options! We'd have a Night with no dead innocents but a dead wolf instead.

Now if you wouldn't trust me then (after the Night with only Lommy killed) I'm more than happy to call for my own lynch toMorrow. I believe I'll have formed enough good ideas of people by then that I can confidently harvest one wolf down with me at the end of Day2.
While I wouldn't put it past the wolves to try to set you up...if only Lommy was killed come tomorrow Night, there's just no way to know for sure whether she was a wolf or not. And as eager as you may be to get lynched Day 2, that wouldn't accomplish anything either. How are we to know whether to believe the random person who receives information on your role isn't a lying wolf themself? And in an even worse case scenario, that random person could end up getting killed Night 3. And then we'd never know who was telling the truth..

EDIT: X-ed with Lommy. Oh my. :eek:

[Brinniel]

Are you kidding me? No one's posted since I've been to class?

Well, this sucks. Because I have to catch a train in 15 minutes. I wanted to take a closer look at someone else besides Lommy and Nogrod, but no else has posted enough for me to get a good read toDay.

The only other person I can look at besides them is Menel. Still not sure whether he's telling the truth or not, but I'm more inclined to think he is since I don't think a wolf would just blurt something out like that with no real good cause. So, I don't see a reason to vote for him toDay.

Lommy or Nogrod? I'm not sure which one to believe...both could easily be lying about their roles. Nogrod's plan is not foolproof as he originally thought and even if Lommy were the defender, she wouldn't know until toMorrow if she caught a wolf or not. I feel more inclined to believe Nogrod because his case is a stronger one and I've been suspicious of Lommy's strange behaviour for some time. But I still can't be sure...if I choose to trust Nogrod with attacking Lommy toNight and he turns out to be a wolf...then we could be headed for some trouble.

++Nogrod

If Nogrod is telling the truth, he will take down a wolf with him and we will know both their roles for sure. If he is lying, we lynch a wolf and keep a Defender. So, though we might lose a gifted, it's still a win-win situation. This is the only solution I can think of so that we know their roles for sure. And quite honestly, it'd be nice to know the roles of some players for sure...then we'll certainly have some real substance to analyse.

Really sorry that I have to rush my vote...but I've gotta go. :(

Hopefully, I'll be around toMorrow.

[Thinlómien]

I've reread Gil, Sally and Kath's Day, but I'm afraid it was of little assistance.

Sally was very confusing and seemed to be somewhat confused too. Normally, behaviour like her current one would make me think her innocent, but with Sally, it's just typical. Also, those pairings of hers were definitely strange - for example, what's the point of pairing me and McCaber up if there's nothing that suggests we're wolves together? - but again, with anyone else, I'd say it's wolvish, but with Sally, I just can't tell. I can't read her at all.

Kath? Something in her chattery way is slightly wolvish, but there's nothing in her posts that would actually indicate to her being one. She is one of those persons who should be watched closely through the game at even it doesn't always help. I very often suspect Kath from early on and now that once-so-familiar feeling is not there. I wonder if it means anything.

Gil... well obviously no data. Unlike so many here, I don't really see why a non-participator couldn't be a wolf. But the fact that it's possible doesn't make it true or even probable.

So I guess I'm as undecided as I was before looking back to that trial day. :rolleyes:

I'd love to take a closer look at Zali and Valier, I hope I will have time to do it. (I'll be away for a few hours now.)

I will almost 100% certainly vote Nogrod toDay though, as it seems to be the most logical cause. He is the only one whose guilt I can be certain of.

edit: xed with Brinn

[Meneltarmacil]

Well, I think I'll cast my vote:

++Valier

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Ow, my brain. Someone is lying here.

I think the only way to find out at least some of the truth of this situation is to vote Noggie. If he dies and no one else does, we lose a wolf. If he dies and Lommy dies, too, we'll lose a wolf. Either way, there's one less wolf to worry about.

It's risky.



...As a heads up, I posted this in the other thread, but I'm going to mention it here in case no one checks. I'm going to have to vote in a little over an hour, since I'll be leaving for class, and I won't be back until about half an hour after the deadline. It stinks, but it's the way my Tuesdays and Thursdays are. Sorry, all.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

And just to clarify--

What I meant by "It's risky" is that if Noggie is telling the truth, we lose not only a wolf but another innocent, and the wolves are already in higher numbers than any of us would like to see.

[Kath]

So what is it now, three revelations? Let's have a quick look-see, and bear in mind I'll probably use the wrong terms as I am getting a little confused between the right ones.

Nogrod as Hunter ~ I'm inclined to believe this because he revealed so, so early. I can quite believe he could be such a bold wolf, but I so often feel certain that he is guilty and yet even before this revelation I didn't find him suspicious.

Menel as Ranger ~ I'm almost certain this is true. I think I can see the reasoning behind it and it does make some sense. I am not so sure of his deduction regarding Valier and Legate, although during Sally and my discussion about Legate I think I did come to the conclusion that he was innocent so I can see the logic behind his vote.

Lommy as Seer ~ it just doesn't look believable. She was quiet after Nog's revelation and then suddenly pops up with this.

There have been suggestions that we lynch either Nog or Lommy but I really don't want to do that. If we lynch Nog and he takes down Lommy then we lose two toDay and one toNight, with 2/3 of those being innocents. If we lynch Lommy and she really is the Seer we lose a Gifted and with so many wolves I don't think we can afford to do that.

So I basically want to ignore those two until we see the outcome of toNight.

[Kath]

I might have to floodpost a little here as I don't have an enormous amount of time. I will also warn that I will have to vote early, only but a couple of hours though. I think then that it's a good idea to look at what happened on the other days:

Day 1: Legate, Menel and Valier
Now, I consider Legate innocent and I believe Menel with his revelation so I guess I would have to consider Valier suspicious here. And indeed there were some odd things in her behaviour:
Ok let's say I was a wolf (which I'm not, seriously).
There is no need for that validation, why put it unless you have something to hide.
Also there's quite a sudden switch in opinion, as she suspected Menel throughout most of the Day yet finally voted for Legate. I'm aware that it was partly to save her own skin but I still think it's odd.
I am wary about this though, as it is highly possible that Legate was in fact a wolf. Just because I think he is innocent doesn't mean I can discount him.

Day 2: McCaber, Naria and Roa
This was an odd Day. I really don't like that McCaber failed to vote. He spent the whole time Roa was there being suspicious of Naria and then suddenly he isn't even there to vote? Naria was very, very jumpy. She said there was no way to get herself out of a lynch but that's not true, if she had been calm and managed to convince McCaber of Roa's guilt. But I just don't know where to assign roles here. Roa's 'oh woe is me' talk could have been equally innocent or guilty. Naria's jumpiness could equally be a sign of a scared wolf or a frustrated innocent. And McCaber. Well of the three I have the most suspicion of him simply for failing to vote, but there can so often be other reasons. I just can't make up my mind about this Day.

Day 3: Agan, Ka, Shasta
This Day makes sense. Shasta barely spoke and the other two voted for someone who didn't make much of an effort rather than someone who did. Doesn't mean though that they were right. It would be odd for a wolf to be the quiet one when they had seen in the previous Day that not being around was likely to mean you got voted for. Which suggests to me that Ka or Agan is our wolf.
Ka made an odd comment about looking hard at Agan because she made good posts, it sounded like she was going to be suspicious of her despite being helpful. In addition, Agan looks pretty innocent to me and came up with some good points about Lommy. So here I would have Ka as the wolf.

Day 4: Lommy, Might and Nog
I've discussed this. At the moment I have Lommy as the wolf here.

Day 5: sally, Kath and Gil
With no Gil we had little choice. I saw nothing suspicious in Sally, I don't think she saw anything suspicious in me. Still, with nothing from Gil it's impossible to know whether he was the wolf or not. Another Day where I can't decide anything.

Day 6: Zali, Brinn, Groin
Brinn said quite a lot and although I disagree with quite a chunk of it, it was at least well reasoned. Same goes for Zali actually. From the posts I wonder if toDay was the Day where a wolf was lynched. Groin's comments were very, very odd with some flip-flopping and some apparent misunderstandings. I would have pegged him as the wolf in that trio.

Day 7: Greenie, Izzy, Rikae
Then again, this looks like a Day where a wolf was lynched. Greenie saying that Izzy looked more suspicious than Rikae yet then suddenly turning round and trying to lynch Rik the second she voted for her is suspicious.

So my wolf list stands as:
Lommy
Valier
MCaber
Ka

I think in that order too. But I still don't want to lynch Lommy toDay. Yet I'm not sure who else to vote for. I'm going to hang around for a little while, watch the posting and try to make my mind up.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Unfortunately, I have to vote now. I haven't got the time to make a detailed analysis of all the players today, which is unfortunate because it might lead me to a better decision.

I'm going to make a leap of faith here. I believe Nogrod, and I don't want to lynch him just to prove his status.

As we stand right now, there are five wolves, I believe, to 9 innocents/gifteds combined. Those are pretty steep odds. If we lynch Noggie and he takes care of Lommy, we'd stand 4 wolves to 8 innocents at the end of the Day, and 4 wolves to 7 innocents going into toMorrow, assuming there is a kill. If we lynch a wolf toDay, we'll be 9 to 4 at the end of today, and possibly 9 to 3 toMorrow, if Noggie does his job. Much better odds.

Anyway. I'm going to vote for

++McCaber

Because out of all the players here, he's probably the one about whom my gut instinct is strongest. It's not a choice I want to make--I'd far rather wait and see how things play out, possibly hear more from him, etc. There's just something a little off about him.

I don't want to spread the vote out as far as it has been already...but I am not certain enough to lynch Valier, and I'd rather let Noggie make a decision he's sure of toNight.

Anyway, I really have to dash. I'm sorry I can't stick around longer and make a better-informed decision.

[Aganzir]

Sorry it took me this long to arrive.

In any other situation, I wouldn't have believed Noggie's claim because he and the way he introduced himself look so plain suspicious. (Well, I admit there's also a tendency to believe those who come out first, but I'm not speaking only about myself now.)

Lommy is a wolf; her way to react to suspicion and just the way she posts convinced me long before her sudden seer revelation. I think we should lynch her today. I find it unlikely that the wolves will attack a hunter who may be protected, and if Nog doesn't need to take care of Lommy now, he will have a chance to kill a wolf later.
And voting Nog is the worst possible idea at the moment! If we kill him now, he will take one wolf with him, but his ability to attack is also something to consider...

So being all the time in character is suspicious in principle and that's why you think I'm a wolf who thinks THE Ka suspicious and thus defends her? Did it cross your mind I don't necessarily think the same way you do, so your conclusions on my behaviour might not be valid?
No, that's not what I think, and don't twist my words. I was speaking about what kind of impression I got from your posts, and that impression includes the idea that you thought like that.
I must say I was pretty surprised to see you're so aggressively defending yourself against reasons that have nothing solid to back them up, only feelings.

Aganzir stands out a little more in my mind because she was the first to state she'd rather vote Shasta because Ka contributes, and that reasoning just doesn't seem very good to me.
And may I ask what you would have done in a situation where both of your contestants look rather innocent, one posts and the other doesn't.

You say, Nogrod, that Lommy must be a Wolf since you clearly aren't one. Yet I'm afraid I cannot blindly trust you on that. What evidence do you have that could point toward your innocence?
This is about as wolfy as it possibly could be. "Oops Nog, you've caught my fellow! Surely you don't happen to be a gifted, willing to come forward?"
I don't believe Menel's claim. I think a ranger should have absolutely no reason to come forward now. The wolves couldn't have known if there was a ranger alive, and with good luck they would have attacked Nogrod who would have been protected.
Besides, I think Legate looked like a panicking gifted in his last posts.

To begin with I'd say that Shasta is/was innocent.
You're even a better player than I imagined if you can figure that out from Shasta's posts.

Of the dead, Legate, Roa and Greenie looked all quite innocent, though Greenie less so after her sudden turn on Rikae (or, the turn was understandable but the way she put it plainly weird). I agree with Nog that Groin might have been a wolf. Lommy's reaction would point at that, and at least to me he looked rather suspicious anyway. About Shasta and Gil I can't say anything.

I don't like Brinn's flip-flopping. I can understand why she voted for Nog, but how she came to that conclusion looks rather suspicious indeed. She looks actually somewhat cobblerish.

However, if Nogrod is not dead toMorrow, we have to lynch him, regardless of Lommy's role, which we won't know for certain anyway - because if he was the wolf and we let him live toMorrow, we lose the game.
I fail to see why.

I find myself disagreeing with Rikae about almost everything, but she feels rather innocent and I'm inclined to trust in her for now.

I've not played that much with Legate, but I don't believe he would make that much of a fuss if he was a wolf.
While I agree with you that Legate looks innocent, I don't think that's a very good reason to think so. If Legate was a wolf, the best he could do when it was obvious that he would be lynched was to make himself look as innocent as possible - so that we would concentrate on the innocents of their trial day instead of his wolf mates.

Now, the way Isabell dismisses the gifted claims is weird.

Do you wish me to come out with his/her name? I can redream of him/her next Night and if I survive, we'll have a second wolf spotted with good luck.
I'm actually rather interested to see whom Lommy would like us to look at.

McCaber was really trying to be Roa's friend as long as she was alive. I can understand if he had a RL reason for failing to vote, but... Now he comes and tells he would have voted Roa, the player considered more dangerous, even though it looked like he was going to vote Naria rather than her the whole day. Trying to make friends with Naria now? I find him suspicious.

edit: xed with Kath and Zali

[THE Ka]

Okay, thought I'd steal some time and actually make a post. Sorry for not being available.
Neither do I have much time to make a real analysis of everything, as everyone seems to have popped off with something.

Okay, well first things first. I was really, really surprised Nogrod (if it is true, at all) voiced his role. It's either the truth, or it is a crafty lie. Playing such a role, let alone the position of a special is tricky, since most are inclined to simply vote you along the ordo-wolf scale of judgement. Which makes some sense in this case. Anyways, it doesn't seem as easy to just voice a role, come up with a plan why, and then excuse suspicion.

Also, what would happen if another Ranger decided to protect Lommy instead? Since Menel, if he is a Ranger, seems to have decided upon Nogrod. If this happens, along with Menel's decision, that plan goes out the window for good.
Or, one of the rangers will find out whether they can protect either one of them.
Then letting that little tid bit be known is entirely up to them.

I dunno if anyone has thought of this, but there are other positions as well in the special role that allow protecting (if their person of interest can be). I am guessing in this, just because it seems to be of immediate concern to myself.
Unless Nogrod either got to the punch first, or was able to tell someone else who'd he be apparently attacking.
Nogrod's plan, or the position of it seems too marytrish, even for a guardian. Then again, so does Lommy's as well.

I don't think I'd want to vote for either as of yet, simply because of the confidentuality of finding their roles out, and whether his plan is actually going to work out.
If his plan does go ahead, it is still told to a random player, who may or may not choose to reveal Lommy's role or anything else they know, unless they thought and felt themselves threatened. Then with that, the rest of us still do not know roles, and which random one of us was told so.

I have to look at this all again of course, since I was an idiot and decided to pop in late and underestimated how much time I really had yesterday.

Well, if we can trust both Menel and Nogrod, I will eat my hat.

I'll throw my shoes, my car and 30lbs art history book into that bet too.:rolleyes: I know they're charming now, but I've played with Nogrod at least once before, and I am not going to doubt his ability again. Even if I had to leave early from the game, still... It just isn't the brightest of ideas. As for Menel, hmm. I haven't played with him before if I remember correctly. Though, in any other games I know that he is easy to suspect at first. I will defiantely have to look at his posts again.

Ka made an odd comment about looking hard at Agan because she made good posts

Because even though I've never played with Agan before, I can recognise someone who has an aptitude for being productive, but invisible and cunning as well. I meant it as a message of sorts, because for a long time I was inclined to vote for Agan because of her behavior. Either she won me over with her arguement that day, or I decided that leaving the votes in both directions would be of benefit to no one. Or, Shasta could have popped in, and voted for Agan or myself, more likely the latter. If Agan is playing a good wolf, then well, my hat is off and I make a bow of recognition, not of flattery.

So here I would have Ka as the wolf.


That is fine. Though of course, it will be of no consequence to m'self after night 2, or any other night here after. ;)
And no, I am not going to elaborate beyond that, or my role or whatever. Just because I speak one way doesn't mean I'm entirely rotten to the core with being vague. Sometimes little things are the biggest when you pull the magnifying glass away. I don't have much to hide really, and am too nice to care.


I am off now for a bit, I have job applications to finish and class as well. I should be able to return before the deadline and read over the posts again, and possibly make a vote.


~ Ka

[satansaloser2005]

McCaber was really trying to be Roa's friend as long as she was alive. I can understand if he had a RL reason for failing to vote, but... Now he comes and tells he would have voted Roa, the player considered more dangerous, even though it looked like he was going to vote Naria rather than her the whole day. Trying to make friends with Naria now? I find him suspicious.

See the things I don't catch when I'm asleep? ;)

Seriously though, this is a really good point. I seriously thought that McCaber was going to vote for Naria on trial day, and then when he left the lynch up to chance I felt incredibly uneasy. But his stated opinion is contrary to his actions on his trial day. In other words, he's a little too slippery and flippery for my taste. I'm still torn between him and Valier, but the more I think about McCaber the more uneasy I feel....



I'll still be around the site for about another hour, then I need to head to work and such. I'll wait as long as possible to vote but I know for sure it'll be at least an hour and a half before deadline. Cursed work. But for now I leave you to your thoughts....

[Thinlómien]

Lommy as Seer ~ it just doesn't look believable. She was quiet after Nog's revelation and then suddenly pops up with this. Kath. Two hours before Nog "came out" I went to sleep and said that I'll be away for a long time, possibly for as much as 15 hours. When Nogrod made his "revelation" it was almost 1am our time, my computer was off and I was soundly asleep and I only saw his posts many hours later. That is why I didn't come out earlier.
There have been suggestions that we lynch either Nog or Lommy but I really don't want to do that. If we lynch Nog and he takes down Lommy then we lose two toDay and one toNight, with 2/3 of those being innocents. If we lynch Lommy and she really is the Seer we lose a Gifted and with so many wolves I don't think we can afford to do that.

So I basically want to ignore those two until we see the outcome of toNight.The outcome won't tell anything. You will only hear that I'm dead and Nogrod will claim I was a wolf and you haven't gained proof of anything, only lost a Defender. Don't you see that? Or, from another point of view: even if I was a wolf and Nogrod was a guardian, my death wouldn't help you at all. You wouldn't still know if you can trust Nogrod or not. Thereby it's utter folly to leave me to be killed by Nogrod and his fellows: not only because you'll lose a Defender, but also because my death won't tell you anything.

That post of yours made me immediately suspect you Kath. That ill-reasoned suggestion sounds like the talk of a wolf or a cobbler.

If we lynch Nogrod and he is a wolf, someone of us (not necessarily anyone that can be trusted though) will know his role and can tell it. We will get rid of a wolf.
If we lynch Nogrod and he is a guardian like he claims, he will take me with him and that action itself will prove his innocence and my guilt. We will get rid of a wolf.
If we lynched me, someone of us will know that I truly was a Defender and that Nogrod was a wolf. We won't get rid of a wolf.
If we lynched me and I was a wolf, someone would be informed of that too and we'd get rid of a wolf.
See?

We should get rid of this lying and confusion-causing Noggiewolf, and rather sooner than later. Even for you who cannot know the facts, lynching him toDay is the surest option.

No, that's not what I think, and don't twist my words. I was speaking about what kind of impression I got from your posts, and that impression includes the idea that you thought like that.I never twist words intentionally. I did not understand you meant that, because, to put it bluntly, you phrased it quite unclearly then. And if you got that kind of impression from my posts, well, you're quite quick to jump to conclusions. Wolfishly quick?

I'm actually rather interested to see whom Lommy would like us to look at.Ok. Other opinions? I'm quite torn whether I should reveal it or not, because with bad luck I'm exposing a gifted and with good luck it's a wolf... Should we take chances?

edit: xed with Sally and THE Ka

[Kath]

Lommy I just have a problem trusting anything you're saying. I get the time thing, I must admit that I hadn't seen that you said you were leaving, but you feel very different to me and I find much in what you post suspicious.

However, someone popped up with some stats and it looked to me like leaving the thing with you and Nog for the Day was a far better idea than lynching either of you.

Now, I have to vote because I need to leave and my vote is going to go to:

++VALIER

Next to Lommy I am most suspicious of her for the reasons stated earlier.

[satansaloser2005]

Quite honestly, if there's any person I'd care to NOT lynch, it's Noggie. At least, not toDay. I still quite believe him about being a gifted, and yet I won't deny there's something funny about him. As I've stated, I'd prefer to lynch Val or McCaber as they are my top suspects. And frankly, if Lommie is indeed a seer, I'd hate to lose her, though odds are if both Lommie and Noggie survive toDay, one of them will die tonight. Gah, decisions, decisions! I'm going off to think about this more.

[satansaloser2005]

It occured to me that I should explain that last post a bit. I want to kill Noggie,....I mean....oh you understand. I find him odd and I think we'll need to solve the Noggie mystery eventually, but I don't think now's the time to do it. If he is the guardian and the wolves are silly enough to kill him during the night, then he dies and takes (hopefully) a wolf with him. Leave Noggie alive at least for today and let's try and catch us a wolf and shrink their numbers. Then tomorrow if necessary we can take care of Lommie or Noggie.

[Nogrod]

Okay I'm back and even if I haven't had time to read all there has happened since I last visited it looks like there is some folly swirling around this place...

I don't ask you to trust me. How could you? Trust the sense in my proposal: I will kill Lommy this Night. Also the wolves will kill toNight. Two kills then. That's only possible if the Guardian (me) made the other kill as the wolves only have one.

My case proven, one wolf down and a known innocent around.

If only Lommy is killed it means that either the wolves didn't kill for some unfathomable reason (why should they not kill?) or the protector saved someone. Good for us whichever the case - even if not too probable. But one wolf still down and no innocent dying.

Okay. You say I'm a wolf and we wolves kill Lommy toNight and that's why there is only one death? Well you can lynch me if you wish the next Day but I may take another wolf down when I die then. So even if you don't believe what I say then you still need to admit the endresult is the same.

It's up to you to decide whether you wish to try for better results.

You'll have no problem lynching me toMorrow if there's only one death toNight. I can help you in it if you wish. :)

I'll try to read now what has been said since I left...

[Aganzir]

I never twist words intentionally. I did not understand you meant that, because, to put it bluntly, you phrased it quite unclearly then. And if you got that kind of impression from my posts, well, you're quite quick to jump to conclusions. Wolfishly quick?
Ok, after rereading what I wrote I admit I was being rather unclear. But if I have a feeling someone is a wolf, I do tend to say that aloud.

Voting record
Brinn: Nog
Menel: Valier
Zali: McCaber
Kath: Valier
(Val-2, Nog-1, Caber-1)

Where's Valier? She hasn't spoken a word today, has she?

Nog, why is the thought of lynching Lommy now so undesirable to you?

I'll do some reading now and hopefully get a clearer image of Caber.

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, I'm preparing to leave, so I need to vote. I simply can't make up my mind between Val and McCaber. Under other circumstances I wouldn't do this, but since there are no double lynches in this game I'll go with....

++McCaber

If for no other reason than to increase his chances of getting lynched. I'll probably be happy with either a McCaber or a Valier kill though. Just putting my vote where I feel it will be best used.

I'll stick around for like ten more minutes and see how things progress, but don't expect any more posts from me unless I think I need to put something in really quickly.

[Thinlómien]

Nog, why is the thought of lynching Lommy now so undesirable to you?Possibly because then someone would know he was lying? :rolleyes:

In principle, there is no problem if Nogrod's lynch takes place toMorrow instead of toDay, but as I'm afraid I will die next Night, I'd rather see him dead now. Why? Because we're losing already. If it really doesn't matter if we kill a mastermind like Nogrod toDay or toMorrow, why not do it toDay, and "steal" the wolves one chance of negotiating with such a cunning fellow as Nogrod? Also, seeing how his honeyed tongue has affected people toDay, I'm afraid that if we leave him alive, he will speak his way out of the trouble toMorrow when I'm not there to stop him anymore. I'm sorry, I don't want to underestimate anyone here, but it seems like the big majority of this village is easily lead by Nogrod and his nonsense.

Lastly, if we get rid of Nogrod now, it will save us from focusing all the attention on him toMorrow and by toMorrow, there might be other known or heavily suspected wolves around, so I really think we should lynch Nogrod toDay. I will vote for him unless I must vote someone else to save myself.

edit: xed with Sally

[Nogrod]

Nog, why is the thought of lynching Lommy now so undesirable to you?I do not think it undesirable. We get rid of a wolf and that's good for our numbers. But there's the minus point that you others will not know she was a wolf and I have less sure times toNight as I need to find out another one I'm sure enough to actively kill.

If you let me do it during the Night it's all clear - unlike Lommy tries to mislead you. And as I said I'm pretty ready to be lynched then if there's no second kill. You are yet better off then as no innocent died on Night2.

Someone speculated about our possibilities of gaining information of the identities of the killed ones. In this game anyone can say anything and with no roles revealed no one can trust these revelations unless in very improbable circumstances. With my actions you gain some solid information as the Guardian is the only one who can perform a Night-kill alongside wolves.

And as I said we don't lose anything if you give me a go with Lommy. I mean I didn't think I would one Day say that I'm in total agreement with Kath: there's nothing one should believe in there. I'll give you a couple of points from there soon.

I must admit that earlier today I for a moment thought that there was a slight chance the Might could have been a wolf and all this was a giant mistake but now Lommy's preposterous claim nailed her for me and I'm 100% certain of her (okay, unless Volo fooled us all and put two gifteds in the same round... but that would be a bit too much even for this game).

EDIT: X'd with Lommywolf

[Nogrod]

Also, seeing how his honeyed tongue has affected people toDayHow desperate does one get? "Honey-tongued"? Me? Of all the people? :D

[Thinlómien]

How desperate does one get? "Honey-tongued"? Me? Of all the people? :DForgive my broken English, I would not, of course, claim that your manner or wording is particularly smooth or sweet - I know you too well for that ;) - but what I was trying to imply is that the action behind your words is smooth and sweet. Yes, honey is the wrong word. You can't phrase your wolvish things smoothly&sweetly like honey, but rather make nonsense sound reasonable and can definitely use rhetorics to your own advantage. Was that a better phrasing? :D

[Aganzir]

I do not think it undesirable. We get rid of a wolf and that's good for our numbers. But there's the minus point that you others will not know she was a wolf and I have less sure times toNight as I need to find out another one I'm sure enough to actively kill.
I think it's quite clear to everybody that she's a wolf and I doubt the one to receive her role would dare to lie about it, even if a wolf or cobbler.
But think it this way. If we lynch her today, everybody will know we caught a wolf. If we lynch someone else, their role can be easily lied. You will know the role of the one you kill for sure. I think we gain more if we lynch her now and you kill someone else at night.

edit: And then she wouldn't have a chance to discuss with her fellows tonight either. Xed with Lommy.

[Thinlómien]

And I'd rather not take this mirror style back again, but if you're talking of being desperate, just look at what kind of points you're throwing at me: "she phrased this badly, therefore she must be a wolf!" :rolleyes:

:p

edit: xed with Agan

[Isabellkya]

I am confused as to why people still seem to think that we will absolutely for sure know what the lynched player's role is. Even when Volo made a clarifying post about it. That yes the lynched player's role will randomly be revealed to another player.. yet it doesn't mean they will be alive, nor does it mean they will be a gifted or ordo.

I don't know if you play werewolf anywhere else Aganzir.. but I do. It has been said since I started playing here. With that.. just because someone reveals their role on the thread, does not in any way make it true. Too often, wolves/baddies reveal their 'role' on the thread as a tactic.. to save themselves. They reveal roles which are hard to prove. Why? Because more often than not, when someone reveals, the villagers get a zombie-like response and want to put absolute faith into such a claim. Especially when the reveal is that of a seer. I would rather look at the claim combined with everything else, than trust it blindly.

Because trust is the ultimate luxury in werewolf games, and too often is trust misplaced.

At the moment, I'm leaning more towards Sally than Nog/Lommy mainly because I get the feeling of unease when I read her posts. It is the 'clarifying' posts which follow her posts which doesn't really sit right.

Anywhoo, I'll continue reading.

X'd with Lommy, Aganzir, Lommy.

[Thinlómien]

When Nogrod is done with, lynch his fellow Aganzir next. Just look at that:
I think it's quite clear to everybody that she's a wolf and I doubt the one to receive her role would dare to lie about it, even if a wolf or cobbler.
That is quite outrageously boldly wolvish. Now, if you lynch me toDay, the one who receives my role will not dare to come out with it, because s/he'll be afraid everyone will think her/him a wolf or a cobbler because of that!

I can't believe you actually wrote that, Agan. First time in my life I probably caught Wolfanzir. Wow. :D

Now, even if you others aren't as confident as I am that this comment proves Agan's guilt, please don't forget about it and take it into account when you're forming your opinion of her.

When I'm gone, please don't forget the connection between Nog and Agan... it's curiously friendship-like.

edit: xed with Izzie

[Aganzir]

Lommy you make me laugh. You're so sweet. :D

Bah, I think I should be concentrating on my Caberlysis rather than stalking the last page.

[Rikae]

I fail to see why.

Because we are 9:5 now, and if we lynch an innocent today out of trust for Nogrod (sure, it's possible we'll lynch a wolf too, but an innocent is more likely), and he kills a Lommy tonight and is not killed himself, tomorrow we're left with 5:7 if Lommy was not a wolf (and if she was not, Nogrod is). We'll have to lynch a wolf then or lose (if Lommy wasn't one - if she was, we'd be 4:8), and only when both Nogrod and Lommy are gone can we be certain we got one - IF we trust Nogrod.

I'm sorry I didn't have time to do the analysis I would have liked, but in light of Lommy's words it's not relevant at the moment anyway. Here are the options, as I see them:

Nogrod is a wolf, Lommy is a seer, and we lynch Nogrod toDay:
We're rid of a wolf and a seer may live to dream another night. The fact that there is no other death will prove Nogrod was lying.

Nogrod is a wolf, Lommy is a seer, and we don't lynch Nogrod toDay:
Good chance of lynching an innocent toDay, toMorrow our seer is dead, but we don't even know this for certain, and Nog-wolf may survive (judging from Aganzir's words, may very likely survive.)

Nogrod is a hunter, Lommy is a wolf, and we lynch Nogrod toDay:
Both will die, and we will know both roles by this fact.

Nogrod is a hunter, Lommy is a wolf, and we don't lynch Nogrod toDay:
Lommy dies toNight, Nogrod may or may not, and we're none the wiser if he doesn't.

It's the only way we're certain to both catch a wolf and know it:

++Nogrod

[Rikae]

Incidentally, I find Aganzir's behavior unsettling toDay too (crossed with Lommy above.)
Lommy may indeed be a wolf, but Aganzir, according to what I've just said, is simply not acting in the best interests of the village. She's pushing a decision that will leave us ignorant.

[Nogrod]

Okay Lommy chose then to portray herself as a Defender (seer) then. How nice. And also she had the good luck of hitting a non-ordo. Even better. How come the most important things? Although you forgot the fact that we can't trust anyone here with their word and that makes the defender in the worst scenario quite a redundant person here. The only one who can prove his role is the Guardian as he can do things others can't. I can show it to you the next Night. If you follow Lommy's advice there's nothing that could tell you whether what she told you was true or not. Anyone can pose as whatever they wish and we still won't know about even if they die.

And I'd rather not take this mirror style back again, but if you're talking of being desperate, just look at what kind of points you're throwing at me: "she phrased this badly, therefore she must be a wolf!"I'm just gearing up... It's funny you tend to concentrate all the minor sidenotes and jokes but not the actual suspicions. That's understandable but also something one can see quite easily through...

Or, from another point of view: even if I was a wolf and Nogrod was a guardian, my death wouldn't help you at all. You wouldn't still know if you can trust Nogrod or not. Thereby it's utter folly to leave me to be killed by Nogrod and his fellows: not only because you'll lose a Defender, but also because my death won't tell you anything.No and no. Two kills on Night2 will prove everything. And as I said before: if the Protector manages a save which is even better I'm ready to be lynched toMorrow as we have gotten out of the worst situation and I might take one of the wolves with me when I go.

That post of yours made me immediately suspect you Kath. That ill-reasoned suggestion sounds like the talk of a wolf or a cobbler.A cobbler? What?

If we lynch Nogrod and he is a wolf, someone of us (not necessarily anyone that can be trusted though) will know his role and can tell it.And who do you think could be trusted with a claim? And seriously there would be another proof then: your death with my hammer.
If we lynch Nogrod and he is a guardian like he claims, he will take me with him and that action itself will prove his innocence and my guilt. We will get rid of a wolf.Correct. But we lose the chance of my known innocence to come forwards...

I can see though where she's coming from in these two. The wolves have now a nice advantage in numbers so they could afford "sacrifying" Lommy (and she would do it) to prevent me from making more damage to them later.

Even for you who cannot know the facts, lynching him toDay is the surest option.It's our surest option to minimal damage for the wolves and the village losing a chance to have a known innocent even for a Day in this village where no one can trust any claim as there are no roles revealed as shared...

Okay. I need to look at some other things as well...

If the wolves manage to orchestrate my lynch toDay I need to have a good candidate to hunt as I will surely leave Lommywolf for you to lynch toMorrow if I just have a believable better candidate. After you see me killing one (hopefully a wolf) as I go then you know I spoke the truth and no wolf should be able to talk you out of lynching Lommy toMorrow.

EDIT: X'd with Rikae. I might just consider you as my target toDay... But I must read your post first...

[Rikae]

Quite honestly, if there's any person I'd care to NOT lynch, it's Noggie. At least, not toDay. I still quite believe him about being a gifted, and yet I won't deny there's something funny about him.

If he is indeed a hunter, he can do us the most good if he is lynched now. He can only kill one wolf, and if he does so by day, we will know the wolf's role and his and have something to analyze.

[Rikae]

EDIT: X'd with Rikae. I might just consider you as my target toDay... But I must read your post first...

You don't frighten me, and your threats make me trust you far less. Why not use your kill where you're "certain" you willl hit a wolf, eh?
If you have a kill at all, go ahead and kill me.

[Rikae]

Okay Lommy chose then to portray herself as a Defender (seer) then. How nice. And also she had the good luck of hitting a non-ordo. Even better. How come the most important things? Although you forgot the fact that we can't trust anyone here with their word and that makes the defender in the worst scenario quite a redundant person here. The only one who can prove his role is the Guardian as he can do things others can't. I can show it to you the next Night. If you follow Lommy's advice there's nothing that could tell you whether what she told you was true or not. Anyone can pose as whatever they wish and we still won't know about even if they die.

This is a blatent lie. If you are truly the Guardian, your death will reveal your role and, by default, Lommy's as well. If not, you are a wolf, and your death without any assassination will also prove it.

[Nogrod]

You don't frighten me, and your threats make me trust you far less. Why not use your kill where you're "certain" you willl hit a wolf, eh?
If you have a kill at all, go ahead and kill me.That doesn't sound like an innocent speaking to be sure.

Why should I waste my hunt on Lommy if I can take someone extra with me? After my death you will have all the knowledge to lynch Lommy the next. At best two consequent wolf-lynches.

I think I really need to revise my earlier suspicions... Sorry Rikae but you're veery near my trigger now indeed and I'm even feeling quite good with it.

Try to open your eyes people... Sorry but this is getting once again a bit frustrating.

And remember: if the wolves manage to lynch me toDay and after you see I took someone with me pay close attention to those who orchestrated this thing. It will give you a nice start to your lynch-list.

[Rikae]

Nogrod, if you were truly the Guardian you would be certain about Lommy's role.
If you want to use your power instead to take me out, so be it. I stand by what I said. Our most logical approach is to lynch you toDay - it's the only way we will know for certain what is going on, and if someone else dies with you, it's too bad you might take an innocent or another gifted, but we'll know your role and Lommy's wolfishness.
Honestly, if you truly had the village's best interests at heart, I actually think you would see the sense in what I'm saying and agree to it. Instead, you choose to threaten me. Well, what I'm saying is the truth as far as I can see, and I'm going to keep saying it, threats or no.

[Nogrod]

The only one who can prove his role is the Guardian as he can do things others can't. I can show it to you the next Night. If you follow Lommy's advice there's nothing that could tell you whether what she told you was true or not. Anyone can pose as whatever they wish and we still won't know about even if they die.This is a blatent lie. If you are truly the Guardian, your death will reveal your role and, by default, Lommy's as well. If not, you are a wolf, and your death without any assassination will also prove it.Sorry but now I don't either get your point or then you don't mine. Yes my death will prove my role. That's what I said. But it does it because of what I do when I die. No one else's role we can no for sure but the Guardian's. With "following Lommy's advice" I meant if you follow the "instructions" she will give you about the innocents, ordos or wolves... there will be no way of telling whether they were true or not.

[Rikae]

Sorry but now I don't either get your point or then you don't mine. Yes my death will prove my role. That's what I said. But it does it because of what I do when I die. No one else's role we can no for sure but the Guardian's.
True, but only if you die. We can't be sure you will die toNight (and I think you won't, judging from your latest posts.)
With "following Lommy's advice" I meant if you follow the "instructions" she will give you about the innocents, ordos or wolves... there will be no way of telling whether they were true or not.
But there will be. If you die alone, we know for certain Lommy is a true seer. If not, we know for certain she is a wolf.
It would be nice if you would take her with you instead of someone whose role you can't be certain about, but that would be your choice in that case.

[Aganzir]

I have included only those posts with some substance in them.

Day 0
-doesn't see any reasons to throw suspicion around yet.
-Nog is vocal, and if a wolf it will be easier to catch him.
-Valier and Groin haven't said much, and that could also work against them
-top suspects Ka and Legate (because of IC things), but since his suspicions are subjects to change, they shouldn't be valued too much.

-thanks Menel, because "Just because I don't feel a need to say everything that crosses my mind doesn't mean I'm a wolf."

I know I should be wary while analysing a new player, but McCaber has, at least in my opinion, shown quite a good understanding about how the game works. So, let's try to come to some conclusions.
I find his statement that there's no use to suspect people yet strange, mainly because it looks like a wolf who's trying to make the discussion remain in the nonsense area. But on the other hand, I know it looks a bit weird for a newbie that everybody's on one another's throats so early. I'm not going to hold saying that for or against him but I felt the need to point it out.
His reasons to suspect (or be about to suspect) someone seem rather weak indeed. And asking people not to wonder if he decides to change his suspects. Oh gosh, was it really that important that you had to say it? To me it looks like "Don't be surprised when I change my suspects after I've learned my fellow wolves."
Then, that "Just because I don't feel a need &c." Could some native (or otherwise better than me) speaker tell to me what he's saying? The only way I can decipher it looks rather suspicious.

Trial day
-Roa looks alright but too agreeable. Could be wolf trying to make allies or innocent trying not to attract attention.
-naturally suspects Naria because she hasn't said enough for him to form an opinion.
-hopes his silence won't be held against him

-doesn't have a problem with Roa's agreeability; it's rather something to think about.

-explains the reason he thanked Menel: if he said everything that occurred to him, he'd be contradicting himself and that would be a reason to suspect him.
-analyses Roa and finds her more probably ordo or gifted than a wolf. Suspects Naria more than Roa because she doesn't speak as much.

-Roa looks innocent but says there's no need to be hasty (Roa was considering voting him).

-tells Roa that he isn't trying to curry a favour by considering her innocent - doing that would eventually turn against him and he'd die.
-says he was nervous going into the trial day and still is, but thinks he has a chance to survive.

-says he suspects Naria because he can't suspect himself (interestingly formulated statement) and finds Roa innocent.

-thanks Roa and says it'd be unfair to kill Naria without hearing what she has to say first.

I think the way he tried to be in good terms with Roa looks rather bad. He states in his first post that he suspects Naria (with feeble reasons). He makes sure Roa doesn't have any reason to think he's suspecting her. Being overly nice towards Roa and a little jumpy every time she says something that might indicate she's beginning to suspect him.
When Roa has voted, he says it'd be unfair to kill Naria now before she has had a chance to speak.
While I completely agree with that, I must say that if Caber is a wolf that was quite a cunning thing to do. First he makes sure Roa doesn't vote him and then plans to lynch the player whom he considers more dangerous.

Day 1
-tells he would have voted Roa.
-> she didn't really make arguments.
-> they seemed to be allies on their trial day just because Naria wasn't there.
-> Roa had no reasons for her vote except maybe trying to gain an ally.
-> what Roa said was not what he'd expect from a player like her.
-> Naria was logical and desperate and her analyses made sense.
-suspects Lommy rather than Nog; she seems to be trying to survive by casting suspicion on others.

...And now he has a good explanation for why he would have voted Roa. He quickly backs off his earlier Roa-is-my-friend attitude, before anyone has noticed & commented on it. But what worse, he really looks like he's trying to make friends with Naria now. Well, if he's a wolf he can't be sure if Roa was a gifted, so it benefits him more to try to make Naria trust him. After all, it's often easier to believe that a player who trusts you is also innocent.

As a conclusion, Caber looks both honest and wolfy at the same time. I don't really like the way he's being so nice to players who are a possible threat to him... And while I know newbies appear suspicious rather easily, there's just something that doesn't sit right with me. Some kind of jumpiness and wariness.

edit: xed with some Noggies and Rikaes

[Nogrod]

Nogrod, if you were truly the Guardian you would be certain about Lommy's role.
If you want to use your power instead to take me out, so be it. I stand by what I said. Our most logical approach is to lynch you toDay - it's the only way we will know for certain what is going on, and if someone else dies with you, it's too bad you might take an innocent or another gifted, but we'll know your role and Lommy's wolfishness.
Honestly, if you truly had the village's best interests at heart, I actually think you would see the sense in what I'm saying and agree to it. Instead, you choose to threaten me. Well, what I'm saying is the truth as far as I can see, and I'm going to keep saying it, threats or no.Sorry Rikae. I can see your point and the village will gain if you lynch me and I take Lommy with me. Surely. But this is also the minimal damage for the wolves. The known wolf (Lommy) and the threat (known innocent who could kill freely once, after my deed known to you all) taken away with one blow.

Otherwise they would face much more harder times.

I'm not saying I'm hunting you in the end but I need to get a look at some others as well as Lommy will be easist lynch even the number of wolves can't deny the villagers toMorrow. If I have a good hunch enough I will go that way...

But first of all I'd suggest you really leave her for me. You can't lose with that scenario.

[Thinlómien]

Ummm... am I the only one who has the feeling that Nogrod has run out of things he could say and is thus repeating things he said earlier?

Okay Lommy chose then to portray herself as a Defender (seer) then. How nice. And also she had the good luck of hitting a non-ordo. Even better. How come the most important things? Although you forgot the fact that we can't trust anyone here with their word and that makes the defender in the worst scenario quite a redundant person here. The only one who can prove his role is the Guardian as he can do things others can't. I can show it to you the next Night.I see you've thought this through when you've been furiously thinking about which gifted to impersonate... :rolleyes: You're tripping over your own feet, Nogrod.

[Aganzir]

I must vote in a few minutes, and I think I'm going to vote either for Lommy or Caber. Is there anyone who agrees with me that we should kill Lommy today?

edit: xed with Lommy

[Thinlómien]

++NOGROD


Brinn: Nog
Menel: Valier
Zali: McCaber
Kath: Valier
Sally: Caber
Rikae: Nogrod
Lommy: Nogrod

(Val-2, Nog-3, Caber-2)

edit: xed with Agan & added a space

[Rikae]

The known wolf (Lommy) and the threat (known innocent who could kill freely once, after my deed known to you all) taken away with one blow.
While this is true, I'm seriously concerned that if you are the guardian and choose some other target, you are likely to kill a gifted (there are, after all, more of those than anything else.)

Certainly it's best if you take a different wolf with you, revealing one wolf while killing another - but at this point, the odds aren't so good for that happening. If you're confident about someone's wolfishness, that's your decision to make.

I still feel leaving you to kill Lommy during the night puts us in a worse situation, because if you are a wolf, we will have a shot-in-the-dark vote toDay, a dead seer toNight, and a good chance (especially with all the wolfish votes around) you won't be lynched toMorrow, either. It's just too risky - and even if you are the guardian, we still have a shot in the dark vote toDay and, if you are protected toNight, we won't know your role toMorrow so you won't be a known innocent anyway.

[Rikae]

I have to go now - those who haven't voted yet, please think carefully about what I've said.

[Nogrod]

I just noticed this...

If you die alone, we know for certain Lommy is a true seer. If not, we know for certain she is a wolf.True. But when you realise she's a wolf you lose the chance to get rid of an extra wolf thus easing our situation.

Following my proposal you'll get the same information but after you see I'm right you also get an extra wolf as I do not need to lynch her. If you go Lommy's way you go wolves' way as there is minimal damage and threat to them.


I'm not sure about you Rikae. I'm a bit uneasy about Lommy's speculation about your trial. She might have tried to mislead us with strongly saying Greenie was innocentish while she was a wolf indeed and just tried to appease you by not suspecting you and pointing a finger at Izzy. Or then she covered you as her mate.

But the fact that you are sternly driving for the minimal damage for wolves scenario makes me doubt your innocense...

[Nogrod]

I must vote in a few minutes, and I think I'm going to vote either for Lommy or Caber. Is there anyone who agrees with me that we should kill Lommy today?I'll go for Lommy if I must but I'd still prefer a scenario where I can deal her extra. For otherwise you others can't be sure of her guilt.

McCaber isn't a bad choice either.

I do think Valier has only been her normal self and wouldn't thus like to vote her even if she should show up indeed.

[McCaber]

Nogrod, with these odds, you would have a better chance of killing a gifted than a wolf. Unless you absolutely have a wolf, I think it would be better to lynch you now and take a wolf with you.

EDIT: crossed with Nogrod

[Nogrod]

I think it would be better to lynch you now and take a wolf with you.Don't you see that is just what the wolves want? They do not wish to face me during the Night and they wish for their dead being the one already known to most others. So you would be in total darkness toMorrow and they shouldn't face me during the Night as I can still hunt as well...

[Thinlómien]

Don't you see that is just what the wolves want? They do not wish to face me during the Night and they wish for their dead being the one already known to most others. So you would be in total darkness toMorrow and they shouldn't face me during the Night as I can still hunt as well...What? Now surely that fabrication does not hold water...

[Aganzir]

Ok, I think I'm going to be here until the deadline. I thought I would have had time to do homework and sleep, but hey who cares.

edit: xed with Lommy

[Thinlómien]

Anything Nogrod says should be taken with a massive amount of salt. Sadly, thinking from you informed innocents' prespective, so should everything said by me too...

edit: xed with Agan: yes, ww is much better. ;)

[Isabellkya]

Ack, I keep getting sidetracked.

++Aganzir

I would prefer to vote Valier, yet she hasn't shown herself toDay and I would like her to speak firstly. I don't like the odds of Nog/Lommy.. yet one of them is obviously lying. I lean towards Lommy lying.. but I must agree with her that Nog has a tendency of being a a smooth and bold wolf.

I choose to place my vote with Agan, because she has consistantly been against Lommy.. yet instead of voting thusly; she has added McCaber. If anything is speaks to her wolfishness, because it seems she has a bit of a case of tunnel vision.

X'd with Nog, Lommy, Agan, Lommy.

[THE Ka]

Even though I don't trust her anymore than anyone else here, I do have to admit someone has finally said something important on the whole 'ranger/wolf' arguement:

I don't believe Menel's claim. I think a ranger should have absolutely no reason to come forward now.

Really, they wouldn't. If Nogrod is what he claims to be, it is of no consequence to what other specials like rangers/protectors choose to do and protect. Nogrod might attack a 'wolf', but he might also try to take a protector down with him, or any other player. Besides, even if Nogrod did know with any strong conviction that someone was a wolf, it wouldn't be connected to the rangers at all, since they can't protect a wolf to begin with. If you tried, Volo or Legate would tell you that you couldn't, thus you protect someone else. Which is why Menel's decision to randomly voice his 'role' is interesting. Beyond the 'I am going to protect you Nogrod, *nudge nudge* thought you should know that before you ask anymore questions *nudge nudge*', and justifying it by Legate's decision to voice his role at the end of day 0.1. Which if anything else, looks more panicked than sending a message.

Especially if you are a gifted, and you are the first vote of the trial days. Not only is it a loss for ordo's, but it always is a downer (no pun intended) to be voted off first. Naturally, in such a setup it makes one a little defensive or just annoyed/panic.

If Menel is another wolf, then it might explain some of this, but again it seems too blalant. Which in turn can be a good tactic if you try it when others are using the fun power of shock and surprise, to just ride that boat for awhile, but keeping a safe distance as well (a la 'here you are nothing to hide, just a simple ranger' bit).

When I'm gone, please don't forget the connection between Nog and Agan... it's curiously friendship-like.

If I remember correctly, on the pre-day, there was a little of that going on, mostly Nogrod cheering over something. Though, I am not sure how much reason should be put into those posts, since if they are wolves it's not as if they somehow developed telekinesis and had a lovely chat about it. Though, if they are, I do have to agree there is some sort of friendly rivalry at least. Though, that is only what I saw on my trial day, and only from the position of Agan.


I'm sorry with what others may think, but I don't see the immediate suspicion of Rikae. Even if she says that she doesn't have enough time to make a longer and rational post, she still manages to make good points.
Also, Nogrod becomes very defensive after her vote, which is natural of anyone who's been voted. Though, Nogrod has mentioned in his much earlier posts that even if he was killed, that at least others would be convinced that Lommy is a wolf, even if it costs him. So, I am a bit more suspicious now that he has become even more defensive. The guardian plan of taking out Lommy at night to thus prove his role does work, but also the second plan he noted being a sacrifice.
Whether they are or not, or what may be, I fail to see how ultimately 'evil' Rikae's decision and reasoning is.


~ Ka

[Nogrod]

What? Now surely that fabrication does not hold water...I hope so much that you could see what I can do... :)

Seven votes not cast.

Where are you?

Sorry to hurry you up but I need to decide both my vote and to PM Volo in time and so I'd really much like to see what goes on...

[Nogrod]

Whether they are or not, or what may be, I fail to see how ultimately 'evil' Rikae's decision and reasoning is. I'm quite getting tired of repeating myself. The same knowledge both ways but minimal damage for wolves if I'm lynched toDay...

[Thinlómien]

Sorry to hurry you up but I need to decide both my vote and to PM Volo in time and so I'd really much like to see what goes on...Oh god... my drama teacher would be proud of you... not dropping the role even in the end... Underlining that PM thing would ring quite false to me even if I didn't know you're a wolf.

edit: xed with Wolfgrrrrrrrrrrod

[Aganzir]

++ McCaber

[Nogrod]

Btw. Rikae's fast stepping away just minutes before the deadline made it. She's careful and crafty and trying to help the wolves case.

I will take her down if lynched.

You can take Lommy toMorrow.

[McCaber]

Right now I feel that lynching Nogrod will get rid of one wolf for sure, regardless of if he himself is a wolf or not. Many of my thoughts here have been stated by others already, so I'll simply let my vote speak for me.

++Nogrod

Finally, my voice is heard!

[Nogrod]

Okay.

That would leave me kill Lommywolf.

++ McCaber

[Nogrod]

It's myself and Rikae or McCaber now.

Think

[Volo]

The first day without audience was more than chaotic, and no wonder, because the Wolves had been united by their master.

The sun had been up for ten minutes when, quite unexpectedly, Nogrod, the famed optimist, who had even written books about the topic, failed to look at the bright side of life. ”I've been in tight situations with Werewolves but this looks pretty nasty indeed”.

To balance Nogrod’s misery, jolly Thinlómien hopped into the scene. ”I've been a-footbaging and watching the stars a little and I've started wondering who might be evil in our gang. I'm fairly sure Nogrod is a wolf”, said the Orc-Elf.

”I don’t see any need to talk with you. I know who you are and you're kind of over-happy and nice, almost cooing on top of being a Wolf”, answered Nogrod after which he was left to the silence. Only the Moose-Hunter’s voice touched the air at one point.

Nogrod sat down on the ground and covered himself with the cloak of ever-dim rhetoric. He tried to doze but thoughts about his true nature entered his head. The Dwarf felt duty call for him inside his head. He felt doomed as he rose up and cleared his voice. ”Do not waste your time on me or Thinlómien today! I'm a Guardian. I have a license to kill one wolf on my own. I will take care of the Orc-Elf next night”. He looked into the sky and a tear trickled down his cheek and was hidden in the Dwarf’s beard.

Menel listened to the Dwarf and was grateful for the news. ”I think it may be time to reveal what's happening. I am the Protector and I think I’ll be protecting you tonight, Nogrod, so you’ll at least get the chance to survive for tomorrow.

The Dwarf felt empty and sick, somebody else would pay with their lives for his survival. Another tear fell into his beard as he walked up to Menel and thanked him. Were he taller, he would have hugged the Hunter. ”You were a good lad, Menel, when we hunted together. Having you here brings me hope and yet I can’t throw aside the disturbing thought that you have changed…”

Brinn, who had preveously been disgusted by Dwarves, agreed, ”I think it's more likely that Nogrod-guy here is telling the truth. Sadly, I must point out that your plan has faults in it”.

”And I thought my plan would be foolproof”, whispered the Dwarf in disbelief. It was odd that he hadn’t noticed that nothing was foolproof anymore. No laws that had applied before seemed to work in this place. A heavy curse lay on all of them and he could nearly hear somebody, or something laughing.

Everybody stood silent and grim, thinking about their loyalties and lives. While Sally the Dwarves’ Advocate decided to trust both the Guardian and the Protector, Taliesin found it hard to ajust into the new situation and Rikae distrust. Soon others arrived to give their opinions, but only when Thinlómien returned, the curse began to tighten around Nogrod’s neck.

”Nogrod, you're evil. I’m a Defender and I know it. What you did was very cunning of you as it freed you from inventing messy dreams”, the Orc-Elf shouted. She took out her old, rusty sword and began rallying people to herself against the evil Wolf. Her campaing was most successful and soon there were others who shouted, ”Vote Nogrod and achieve true liberty!”

Nogrod on the other hand started his anti-campaing and general protest, ”Don’t vote Nogrod or Thinlómien!”, which was mistakingly simplified to ”Don’t vote!” by some.

While all of this was happening and different warriors had different thoughts, the Dwarf and the Orc-Elf had a staring contest, since they knew better than to have a fighting contest. It lasted many hours but in the end Thinlómien won and Nogrod had no choice but turn his sight elsewhere, which turned out to be Rikae. At the same moment the last vote fell into the bin. Nogrod’s life was at an end.

”I will take it upon myself to once again rid the world of the Evil’s minion!” boomed Death, or McCaber. As the fanatic man reached for his throwing knives, another dark shape turned into motion.

Aganzir, who was sitting on – or truth be said, under – her saddle which was attached to the horse in a most peculiar way, raced to stand between McCaber and Nogrod. ”Do not touch him!”

”Move away Aganzir! And McCaber, you heard her, don’t you dare touch Nogrod! This is between him and me!” commanded Thinlómien. The Orc-Elf walked swiftly to meet the Dwarf with her sword lifted. The Dwarf lifted his sledgehammer and tightened his jaw.

Without any warning she attacked. Nogrod was suprisingly quick with a heavy weapon like a sledgehammer and he managed to parry all her blows, but they were coming with such mad zeal that he found himself backing off towards the wall. Not even his positive attitude was there to help him, since the Orc-Elf had stolen even the last spark of it. Nogrod was less than two foot away from the wall of the temple when he found new strength and with a roar sent out a series of blows. Thinlómien was quick to dodge all of them, but one hit brushed her shoulder.

With growing pain and recless rage she slashed with inhuman, inelvish and inorcish strength. The stroke crushed the handle of Nogrod’s hammer and cut off his right wrist. The Dwarf cried out in pain and fell back to the wall.

Thinlómien grinned and put the tip of her blade to the heart of the Dwarf. She wispered to him ”There is no escape. Don’t make me destroy you. You do not realize your importance. Join me and together we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to Arda”.

”I’ll never join you!” spit the brave Dwarf.

”If you only knew the power of the dark side. Tar-Míriel never told you what happened to your daughter”.

”She told me enough! It was you who killed her”.

”No. I am your daughter”.

Nogrod’s eyes opened wide and he forgot his physical pain, ”No. No. That’s not true! That’s impossible!”

”Nothing is. Does my figure decieve you?” answered Thinlómien with a cold chucle.

”No! No! No!”

”Dwarves truly are foolish. You genuinly thought that I was born like this? Haha. No, you are very wrong. Very, very, very wrong”, she shook her head with emotion and a subtle smile. ”I am not a Dwarf. No. I am not an Orc either. Nor an Elf. Heh, I’m not even a Hobbit!”

Nogrod stared at her with disbelief, horror and fear, and a little curiosity.

She noticed it and asked herself, ”What am I?” Her grin broadened again and she said, ”Immortal, for one”. Thinlómien chucled, sheated her sword and answered herself, ”A Werewolf? No, that’s too obvious”. She shook her head and continued, ”Have you ever heard of the Ancient Beast? Well, that’s what I am”.

The Dwarf closed his eyes and fell to the ground sobbing.

”Ooh… You can’t do that now. You still promised to do something”.

”No… No… No”. Nogrod shivered.

”You have to, you have no right to brake the law”.

Nogrod’s sobbing quietened and he stood up with tears still clung to his cheeks.

”Here, take this”, Thinlómien said with well faked genuine concern and handed him a knife.

---------------~~

The other warriors had waited for the scene to end without moving closer to the two. Whether it was because of respect, fear or rational motives, wasn’t known. When they saw both Nogrod returning back alive and Thinlómien standing tall, they clapped and shouted with relief. Only Rikae turned her back and pushed her way away from the slowly advancing Dwarf. The Dwarf followed her through the crowd which made space as he draw near.

It was Rikae’s turn to scream as there was no place to hide in the circular dome. She could run though, but Nogrod followed her wherever she went. At last she turned to Thinlómien and asked, ”Do I have to?”

The answer was a ”Yes. It won’t hurt. Here, take this”. Thinlómien offered Rikae a heavy knife.

Unwillingly Rikae took the knife and out of pity turned to Nogrod, who was continuing his walk towards her. She took a few uncertain steps towards him and waited.

Both of them lifted their knives and pushed them deep into each other’s hearts.

----------------~~

When Rikae pulled out the knife out of Nogrod’s heart, he fell lifeless to the ground and tugged the knife he gripped out of Rikae’s heart.

She stood there looking at his body and thinking of tall grasses. Blood flew out of her and dirtied her shirt. She stood and stood and waited. Her white shirt had already turned red but as the blood dripped on her jeans it evaporated. And still she waited. Nearly all the others had gone to bed and there Rikae continued standing.

Thinlómien walked up to her and looked the dead Dwarf. She reached for Rikae’s hand and took it into her own. They looked at each other and then turned together to face the Eastern sky. A glow was coming from the horizon. As if a star raced over the sea towards them.

”Goodbye”, said Thinlómien and let go of Rikae’s hand.

Concern ran through Rikae’s bloodless face, ”You don’t have to leave, do you?”

”I do, I do…” she sighed and turned to follow the others into their bedchambers.

Rikae looked after her and waved her hand gently. Only long after Thinlómien had passed out of her view did she turn back to the glow. She wispered the name of the star and saw it nearing. Two smaller red stars shone inside the big white star. It let out a piercing howl as it flew towards Rikae.

A great white wolf landed softly in the middle of the Temple and all the sand turned white. He walked towards Rikae and bowed before her. Their eyes met. His red eyes and her white eyes. No words were needed as both knew that this would happen. She climbed on his back and looked at the dead Dwarf for the last time. The White Wolf leapt into the air.

-----------~~

Around:
Brinniel
THE Ka
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
McCaber
Thinlómien
Valier
Meneltarmacil
Kath
Naria
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Isabellkya

Gone:
Legate of Amon Lanc - lynched on Day0.1 - teleported away
Roa_Aoife - lynched on Day0.2 - joined the dance
Shastanis Althereduin - lynched on Day0.3 - reincarnated as the first Man
The Might - lynched on Day0.4 - escorted away and sailed away
Gil-Galad - lynched on Day0.5 - disappeared in a gate to a different world
Groin Redbeard - lynched on Day0.6 - returned to where he came from
A Little Green - lynched on Day0.7 - ended up on the moon
Ugh-Friedrich - wasn't allowed to enter the temple after stage1
Nogrod - lynched on Day1 - destroyed by his daughter
Rikae - hunted down by Nogrod on Day1 - carried away by the Great White Wolf

---------~~

Day1 ended, Night2 began.

Don't post on this thread.

Wolves and Specials, do what you can.

Lommy choose if you want to be "immortal" for the duration of Night2 or Day2.

[Thinlómien]

Protector - please protect me toNight, we can't afford losing a Defender now. I'm worth your trust.

I still have a nagging feeling the wolves are going to succeed in killing me toNight.

That is why I tell you the non-ordo is Valier.

Good Night!

edit: xed, obviously

[THE Ka]

Wait what? Eek I missed the deadline...:eek:
Sorry about that, I was just going to vote then I decided to refresh the page and volia... Sorry again. If anyone needs clarification on my vote, please feel free to contact me or have me post tomorrow about it. It wasn't Val, Cab, Agan, or Rikae if you must know.

Okay, I'll shut my mouth for today. Sorry again!
~ Ka

[Volo]

”At last”, thought the Wolves.

-----------~~

Naria was sleeping in her chamber, which was quite tidy although small. The bed was more like a pile of rugs, luckily, clean rugs. She was better off than some of the others. But she was the one who found herself in this corner-chamber first and nobody seemed to notice her existance after that. However, now she was seeing a dream.

In her dream Naria was the land itself. A far off land, a big ball of land. She felt everything that happened on her surface and could move things by her will. If it hadn’t been a drem, the feeling would have been very alien. In all her glory, Naria was so small. Smaller than ever, just a little grain in the vast nothingness, or maybe everythingness. She was just like all the other balls of land.

A thought came to her. What if she would unite herself with the other balls of land. With no strain Naria forced the earth to turn into living creatures. It took the creatures bare moments to change into the perfect creatures she wanted, but the time felt very lonely, almost too lonely to bear.

When the creatures obtaining her became perfect, she commanded them to go and become a part of the other land balls. And so they did, forming a living thread from her body to the closest ball. She felt her awareness move across the emptyness and form a link with the other ball of land. Naria was now two balls of land.

Her creations moved from ball to ball and she grew. If the balls of land she came to were already inhabited by something, she would consume the creatures and convert them into a part of herself. The more she consumed, the more she became aware of the world and the bigger and more important she felt.

Nothing stopped her growth and her fine thread took over balls of land with growing speed. Only twice had there been true resistance and although at the time they didn’t seem important, later Naria found that she wanted to mimic the forms of the valiant creatures she had consumed.

Her movements of conquer became more deliberate and she began to be picky with the balls of land she took over. At times she cut her own threads to balls she didn’t need to achieve the form she wished to. Naria no longer had time to feel lonely as all her strength went on choosing the right land balls.

When her shape was close to her goal, she saw that it would never function this way, dropped off nearly half of her ingridients and began her search for very specific balls, which weren’t of land, but instead liquid. It took her countless ages to find them, but eventually she did and for a while she felt perfect.

She couldn’t enjoy the feeling for long, because suddenly a new power entered her world. She had never seen anything like it. It too was formed from balls of land, but they weren’t alive like with her, yet they kept together in an unfamiliar form.

First she tried to ignore the intruder, but when it started to take over what was hers, she had no choice but to consume the odd being. She tried to send her perfect creatures to fight over the cold balls of land that were bound to each other some odd way. But as much of herself as she send, the intruders send back twice as much and Naria had to either abandon her position as the greatest being ever or find some way to prove herself once again.

She decided not to give up but while she thought about ways of saving herself, her rival stole more and more of her. Too late she noticed that her perfect form was shattered for ever.

Naria woke up, tried to yell and fainted.

------------~~

When the morning came, everybody looked surprised by Naria’s disappearance.

Azaelia who had envied Naria for being normal, but not average, and Izz silently entered Naria’s chamber. The chamber was cleaner than their chambers, except for the body lying on the bed with eyes opened.

A handle of an iron knife stuck out from between Naria’s ribs.

Azaelia didn’t dare go closer to the corpse as doing so wasn’t quite average. Izz stood by the doorway for a while, but saw that nobody else would do it so she had to. She walked to Naria, pulled the knife free, straightened Naria’s head and closed her eyes.

And all the while Izz touched the body, little viruses entered her body and awaited for new triumph.

-----------~~

Around:
Brinniel
THE Ka
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
McCaber
Thinlómien
Valier
Meneltarmacil
Kath
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Isabellkya

Gone:
Legate of Amon Lanc - lynched on Day0.1 - teleported away
Roa_Aoife - lynched on Day0.2 - joined the dance
Shastanis Althereduin - lynched on Day0.3 - reincarnated as the first Man
The Might - lynched on Day0.4 - escorted away and sailed away
Gil-Galad - lynched on Day0.5 - disappeared in a gate to a different world
Groin Redbeard - lynched on Day0.6 - returned to where he came from
A Little Green - lynched on Day0.7 - ended up on the moon
Ugh-Friedrich - wasn't allowed to enter the temple after stage1
Nogrod - lynched on Day1 - destroyed by his daughter
Rikae - hunted down by Nogrod on Day1 - carried away by the Great White Wolf
Naria - killed on Night2 - conquered by a cold intruder

---------~~

Night2 ended, Day2 began.

Wolves stop PMing.

You may post on the thread.

[Kath]

Oh my, Lommy, you know I was about to post and then I saw yours and I just had to reply because ... what are you talking about?

Nogrod was the Hunter, as evidenced by this:
Rikae - hunted down by Nogrod on Day1
Which was posted by Volo in the narration.

As wolvish ploys go your one yesterDay was good but it's over. Nogrod was the Guardian, and as there can only be one special in a group of three that leaves you as Innocent or Wolf. I can't see an Innocent coming out against a Special, there is simply no logic behind that, and so I must come to the conclusion that you are a Wolf. And if I hadn't believed that before your post just then I certainly would after it!

As to Rikae, the narration says she was taken by the Great White Wolf, which suggests to me that she was a wolf. Obviously that isn't hard evidence though.

Naria ... why her? I'll go back and have a look at her posts.

What I do want to know though is something mentioned by our dear Mod about Lommy being immortal for the Night or the Day? If she has chosen to be Immortal toDay I'm assuming that means she can't be lynched.

[Kath]

Smeh? Where'd Lommy's post go? It came through the email. :confused:

[Thinlómien]

Thinlómien laughed. "What? I'm alive? YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" She danced an Elvish bellydance. "It seems I'm not cursed after all. I can't believe this. But what on earth happened? OMG, the protector must have believed me and protected me and the guardian killed Naria! Now let's hope she was a filthy wolf. :D I'm just afraid she maybe wasn't. :rolleyes:

I got yesterDay's lynch... Nogrod was a wolf (but that obviously was no surprise to me). But it's so odd Rikae died too... They must have been the lovers! It is the only reason why they could have died at the same time. Well, I'm glad to be rid of them.

All in all, this is going better than I expected. For Valier is a wolf. Kebab! Kebab! Oh, iskender kebab, my favourite food, with you I'll toast the sweet victory: now you trust me and Valier the wolf will be dead. And the wolves will be in serious trouble! Yay! Sweet kebab with sweet kebab sauce!

Sorry I'm a bit hyper here. I'm just feeling so dizzy since I'm alive." :D

edit: xed with Kath x2

[Kath]

Okay, is that actually allowed? Deleting a post and changing parts of it?

[Thinlómien]

I guess I must explain. I was writing a post and accidentaly sent it before I had written only about half of it. So I deleted and reposted. Hope that answers your question miss Kath. :)

Rikae - hunted down by Nogrod on Day1Silly girl to take it that literally. Haven't you ever heard a song where they sung something like "I'm hunted by your love"? The Swedish band BWO for example?

As to Rikae, the narration says she was taken by the Great White Wolf, which suggests to me that she was a wolf. Obviously that isn't hard evidence though.Are you silly or are you a wolf? White is the colour of ghosts. White wolf = Ghost wolf. Ghost wolf = the wolf who just died = Nogrod aka Rikae's lover. Simple symbolics.

[Thinlómien]

Okay, is that actually allowed? Deleting a post and changing parts of it?I don't know. It was an accident and I'm sorry. But I don't have the version that I accidentally posted. If you do have it in your e-mail, you can post it on this thread just to be on the safe side of the rules? :)

[Kath]

Considering it wasn't hugely different I'm inclined to leave it. Plus I think most people get email alerts so they'd be able to read it as it was anyway. I was just bemused when it disappeared.

And I will say I'm impressed with your efforts, but you still come across as a desperate wolf.

Now, are you going to answer that question about being Immortal?

[Thinlómien]

Now, are you going to answer that question about being Immortal?Immortal? I'm always immortal. For your information, my real life is dervied from the Greek name Athanasia, which means "immortal", so of course I can't die. :Merisu:

Obviously, dear Kathwolf, I can't give you that information. It's too dangerous.

[Aganzir]

If Rikae wasn't a wolf and the wolves lynch one innocent (or no one) today, they win.

I really don't know what to think of the narration. Rikae's death looks like that of a wolf, but if Volo isn't going to reveal the roles in public I fail to see why he would give hints in the narrations either. So better not count on that.

Voted for Nogrod:
Brinniel, Rikae, Lommy, McCaber.
And they all look(ed) more or less bad.
Brinn because she kept hesitating. "I don't know whom to believe" stuff always makes me wary.
Rikae for how she kept questioning Nog.
Lommy for quite obvious reasons.
Cab's vote was obviously in regards of self-preservation, but there's the same wrong thing as with Greenie's vote: he doesn't mention he's leading in votes; he votes Noggie "only" because there's a chance that he'll take a wolf with him.
Nogrod, with these odds, you would have a better chance of killing a gifted than a wolf. Unless you absolutely have a wolf, I think it would be better to lynch you now and take a wolf with you.
I don't understand this statement since Nog was absolutely having a wolf.
Nog was going to kill Lommy in the night. Nog said he considered hunting Rikae. And then comes Caber and says it'd be better to lynch Nog, which would mean only one person dying with him. That screams wolf to me.

I wouldn't be ready to risk lynching Lommy.

**

I choose to place my vote with Agan, because she has consistantly been against Lommy.. yet instead of voting thusly; she has added McCaber. If anything is speaks to her wolfishness, because it seems she has a bit of a case of tunnel vision.
I didn't vote her for reasons I found quite obvious. If Nog said he'd rather kill her at night, ok then, though I would have preferred to lynch her. And I would have preferred not to lynch Nog. So instead of demonstrating & being the only one to vote Lommy I rather voted for another I found suspicious.

edit: xed with three Lommys and Kath & soon off to sleep.

[Meneltarmacil]

I, for one, would consider lynching Lommy, given that Nogrod indeed appears to be a Hunter, and think she's probably the best choice.

Valier is still suspicious, for reasons I mentioned yesterDay. She's second on my list.

McCaber, well I do see some wolfishness in his behavior, but I think it would be a little risky to lynch him just yet rather than one of the other two I mentioned.

By the way, if Nogrod was a wolf instead of a Gifted, as has been suggested, lynching Lommy wouldn't instantly kill us, since with Nogrod dead the wolves would not equal us in numbers. Still, we need to be cautious. I also note that Lommy has implicated Valier as a wolf, suggesting the two of them aren't both Wolves. Could likely be a trick in case one or the other is lynched: It makes the survivor look like an innocent.

[Thinlómien]

Menel, you're wrong.

And yes, go on and lynch me and I'll die as a martyr and you'll know I was innocent...

[Thinlómien]

I'm going to sleep now and will be back in the early-ish afternoon my time (which is GMT+2).

Please think about everything I've said.

[THE Ka]

What I do want to know though is something mentioned by our dear Mod about Lommy being immortal for the Night or the Day? If she has chosen to be Immortal toDay I'm assuming that means she can't be lynched.

I believe it is because Lommy cast the tie-breaking/ decisive vote. Thus, she gains immortality for that night and the next day I believe. Not too sure about the latter, but I know it is true for that night.

Not too sure whether I was supposed to say that either, but I think it is in the rules, somewhere. Sorry if that was a 'no-no', but for once I finally know the mechanics. Yay...

Though, I am much more perplexed why Naria was attacked by the wolves. It makes little sense, beyond giving some insight on how well the wolves faired with their PM's last night, which should be good news I guess, but I dunno. Still am suspicious about exactly why.

Are you silly or are you a wolf? White is the colour of ghosts. White wolf = Ghost wolf. Ghost wolf = the wolf who just died = Nogrod aka Rikae's lover. Simple symbolics.

Speaking of symbolism, when I read that I kept thinking of the 'Great White Buffalo' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Buffalo_Calf_Woman)... :rolleyes: Which, I doubt Volo used in any connection to Rikae, because it is completely change the whole meaning. The interpretations so far are much more appropriate.

Just wished to check in, I won't be available for some time tomorrow, I have to go in for some school-related testing, but should be able to check in after that. My time is GMT-8:00 and I should be gone from 6am-11am. If that is of any help.
Okay, I am going back to reading posts now, should have something better to say soon.

~ Ka

[Kath]

I would actually suggest not voting Lommy toDay. We have still had no real answer about this Immortal thing and if we do try to lynch her toDay only to find that we can't it means a wasted lynch.

So, I would suggest leaving Lommy for now and trying to catch a different wolf. Presumably she can't choose to be Immortal every Day so we'll be able to get her eventually.

Ah! In fact I've just seen Ka's post about that so it looks like she will become available to lynch tomorrow.

In which case, who else do we have as possible wolves? My list of yesterDay was:
Lommy
McCaber
Valier
Ka

I'm recanting my suspicion of Ka somewhat mostly because she came out with the Immortality explanation. I'm aware that was in the rules but if she was a wolf I doubt she'd help us avoid the possibility of a wasted lynch. So, let's have a look at McCaber and Valier.

McCaber - explains his lack of a vote clearly blaming RL reasons (which can't be argued with) and says he would have voted Roa because Naria came across as very innocent. If McCaber was a wolf it would make quite a lot of sense to have killed someone he so clearly marked as innocent to avoid suspicion. Mentions Lommy but tries to deflect attention from her. Pretty keen on lynching Nog though, which does alter my thoughts a bit. Lommy was trying very hard to stay alive yesterDay, would a fellow wolf be quite so bold as to try and get her killed even if it was through Nog? I don't know. It is possible, McCaber does seem to get this game and so I think he would be aware that this might possibly put him in a good light.

Now as far as I can see Valier didn't post or vote. Was there an RL reason for that which I missed?

Oh yes, and Naria, I said I would look at why she was killed but there's nothing to look at. She made one post and didn't vote, so the choice of her was probably made for it's safety. How can there be trails if she never spoke?

So I think overall my opinion of McCaber is still much the same as yesterDay, as well as that of Valier although I would like to hear something from her. It's just, you have two people in a Day that don't talk and that's Valier and Naria. Everyone knows Valier's instincts, why not get rid of her if you have the chance? Well, because she is a wolf. So my vote is likely to go to one of them toDay considering this possible Immortality of Lommy.

EDIT: That third sentence, I mean Lommy will become available to lynch not Ka.

[Brinniel]

Just to clarify the rules with a quote:

-The player to cast the decisive vote during a Stage2 Day may PM the Mod and choose to be protected either for the next Night or the next Day.

Lommy is a wolf. Nogrod proved his honesty with his death and hunt of Rikae. I admit I find it a bit strange he chose her rather than a known wolf, but I suppose it's because he was confident we'd have two wolves this way...let's hope he's right. While she may be very clever with her Rikae and Nogrod are lovers trick, she just saying that to confuse us. We can't believe anything Lommy says.

And of course to lynch her would just be foolish. We can't know when she chose to be protected and I'd rather not risk it. We can always lynch Lommy toMorrow; we just have to make sure we don't let her make the decisive vote again.

Right now, I honestly don't like how Menel pulls for the lynching of Lommy...after Kath's post, he should know it would be too risky. He also leaves open the slight possiblity of Lommy's innocence, which I don't believe for one second...wavering even slightly about something like that seems wolfy to me.

I also want a closer look at McCaber...some of the things he said yesterDay made me uneasy. I will take a better look at his posts later.

Right now, I must head off to the shower and then bed because I am completely exhausted. A reminder that I must vote extremely early toDay...I should be able to return briefly in the morning, but that is all. Very sorry about that.

[Meneltarmacil]

My apologies for not seeing the immortality thing.

OK, in that case, we really shouldn't lynch Lommy.

Valier could be an option, but it still hangs on whether Legate was telling the truth about being innocent.

McCaber's lynching would give us the advantage of knowing for sure that the wolf from his Day is dead, but we've only got a 1 in 3 chance that he's a Wolf.

I'm planning to vote for Valier, as there are better odds that she's a wolf from my point of view (but it's still 1 in 3 from yours, as I know many of you doubt my claim of being a Protector).

[Valier]

hello dear villagers. let me apologize again for my lateness. I have read through most of yesterday but I wanted to make a few things clear.

I think I may have been wrong in lynching Legate. I think he was the gifted. Menel is the wolf. I was actually surprised when I read very early on in the day that Menel suspected me, and then votes me with no hesitation. I think to myself why would he suspect me right away, when he was the one who voted Legate in the first place... I also noticed this in Legate's post

If Valier is a wolf, Menel is just an innocent who made a mistake.

and his last like four posts. I will not put them all here, but if you go and read them I am certain Legate WAS a gifted. Which would explain a lot about Menel and his behavior yesterday. Really if he was the Ranger how would we ever know? I, my fellow villagers am an Innocent. Now, there is a good chance that Menel is the Ranger, which is Yay!! but why would the wolves not have killed him last night? and why the sudden turn, almost blindly I may add...towards me?

Ok I am going to finish up my reading and I'll be back to comment on the other groups of threes.

[Isabellkya]

I myself am leaning towards taking our chances with lynching Lommy. Even if it is a wasted lynch our numbers are a bit better. If we choose to lynch someone else, odds are we will choose wrongly. Then toMorrow we will only have one more than the wolves, assuming whomever is targeted is not saved by protection.

I'm confused at the wolves' strategy.. Why they did not go after Menel in being a protector, means he is a wolf. Or that they didn't want to kill him, and show that he truly is a protector. Thus pointing the wolf finger at Valier.

[Valier]

Ok so as promised my take so far on the groups. Mostly take into account that I am assuming that one of the two of each group is a wolf and not counting if a wolf was indeed killed in stage one.

Roa, Naria and McCaber

I think Roa was the gifted, and Naria an Ordo. McCaber I believe is the wolf of this group. To me it seems the kill of Naria would be a perfect plan to draw suspicion away from McCaber. Who would think a wolf would kill the remaining group member (of their day) and put them in the spotlight? especially when they have been highly suspected. A wolf that wants to hide in the spotlight, hoping they will pass as an innocent. Seems like a good wolf plan to me.
I believe the wolves killed Naria as an easy kill, ridding them of a potential threat as a quiet gifted, or simply a quiet Ordo. If McCaber has to be a sacrifice to get the remaining wolves farther, I believe since he has been suspected that would be a good plan.

Aganzir, Shasta, Ka

I am far more inclined to thing Aganzir a wolf. Ka's posts are always a little eccentric for me, but she seems innocent. I agree that if she was a wolf I doubt she would have clarified such rules for us. Aganzir has been off to me, but not in a very high way. I don't find her all that suspicious. But of the two she is indeed furrier.

Lommy, Nogrod and The Might

Wow this one is confusing.... There is no way that Lommy is the seer. I do admit that Rikae could have been Wolfgrod's lover. Volo is not reveling roles in the narration so Hunted by Nogrod could just be what he put because Nogrod was claiming to hunt Rikae or McCaber. Which he could have said all that, knowing full well if he died so would Rikae, so why not pretend to be the Hunter? It would explain quite nicely to the village why Rikae died too. In doing this he could totally frame Lommy. And possibly he was going to bring his "fellow wolf" with him when he died, pointing blame again away from a WolfCaber, when Rikae went instead.

But this Leaves Lommy...since she can't be the Seer, seeing as I'm not a wolf. I believe we have a Cobbler on our hands. Who else is put in the village to confuse and torment the village and help the wolves as much as she can? Since Nogrod could not have known she was the cobbler he had no problem pointing us towards her anyways.

The Might was almost certainly an Ordo, so If Nogrod was a wolf, Lommy could indeed be a Cobbler....they are considered gifted right? Ok well either way Lommy needs to go. I think she just may have used her immortality today, but there is always tomorrow. I do say that we try not to take too much of what she says to heart, cause she is evil, no matter wolf or Cobbler.

Sally, Kath, Gil

Kath I think is innocent, weather it be Ordo or Gifted. I'm not quite sure why she suspects me so much, but I do agree with alot she says and her reasons make sense. Sally, I'm inclined to think would be the wolf of the two. Again I'm not quite sure yet, but I am pretty sure Gil was not a wolf, so one of these two must be furry.

Azaliea, Brinnel, Groin

I like the way Brinn thinks, most of what she says makes sense, so I think her more Innocent. Zali has however been raising on my radar, not sure why yet, I'll be looking more into these two.

Greenie, Isabel, Rikae

So if Rikae was indeed a lover, that would make her an Ordo? I'm not sure I was convinced of Greenies guilt. I will be looking over Isa's post here shorty.

I'll have to vote before I got to bed tonight, I am leaning towards Menel or McCaber. i do want to look at Isa, Brinn and Zali more before I do make up my mind.

[Isabellkya]

-Oh, and there will be a single Lover at most

I'm not exactly sure how the role of a Lover works.. but usually when it says one Lover; does that not mean singular.. and not plural? Such as one lover, rather than two lovers; a pair? As well.. who is to say that a lover HAS to be an ordo? The games which I've played elsewhere, the 'lover' aspect was in addition to the player's role. Did we not have a pair of WW lovers last game?

So I guess I'm confused as to where this talk of lovers being ordo's is coming from and what not.

Edit, spelling.

[McCaber]

I'm finally here. I agree that it would not be a good idea to lynch Lommy, with that immorality thing. And with Rikae's death, she does look mighty wolvish. Save her for later.

Naria seemed an easy kill for the wolves, if only for the lack of paper trail. But did they do it to cast suspicion on me, or did I do it to make you think the wolves cast suspicions on me, or did the wolves think of that and try to triple-bluff it? That said, time for me to move on.

Ka seems innocent at first glance, just for mentioning the immortality.

Menel is looking like a wolf to me right now. He was quick to claim to be gifted when he really didn't need to. From his day, he seems the worst.

[Valier]

So I guess I'm confused as to where this talk of lovers being ordo's is coming from and what not.

I think I was the only one who thought she could be an ordo, or at least I just brought it up. I did put a question mark by that. I'm not quite sure how that works.

As of now I'm still leaning towards McCaber or Menel. I've got to go to bed, I gotta work early. I will come on and vote before I go.

[Meneltarmacil]

Well, I think I'll vote now and get it over with.

++Valier

[THE Ka]

OK, in that case, we really shouldn't lynch Lommy.

You can't anyways, she still has the immortality protection for toDay. Last night she had it too. As for toNight, that aspect should change to the person with the decisive vote for toDay.
Presumably she can't choose to be Immortal every Day so we'll be able to get her eventually.
I hope not, or that rule is a load of hokey, taking the perfectly good job of rangers and other specials away. Then again, if Lommy somehow managed to cast her vote at the right time everyday, everytime, I'd be more curious than upset.
That likelihood is a little too far out, even for me.
Though, as far as rules go, I am not so sure beyond what happened last night and toDay's immortality protection. What will happen in the future, like most humans, I don't have a bloody clue. I am trying to go by only the information I am sure about.

Ka's posts are always a little eccentric for me

Heh, sorry about that. 'Tis my nature, in or out of WW. I can't help it, like Joyce. Usually lands me in the suspicion bowl, but eh, c'est la vie.


At first, Menel didn't seem so much suspicious as acting himself on the pre-day, to me at least. Though, with the tight rope he has now and before, and no one to be his net (so far), he's acting a bit out of his element, so to speak. With Nogrod obviously not a wolf now, we'll have to see what Menel does.

I have to agree with some of Isa's point on the lover aspect. Unless the lover role has developed into 'mutual recognition of a lover from afar' role or something. I don't think it is actually a complete role but an additional one chosen at random, which would make sense game wise. Though, I am really foggy on additional roles and such.

Okay, that is all for now. I have to get some sleep for tomorrow morning, but I should be back before the day is up. If I can, I'll have to make an early vote, with probably even less reason, ugh c'est degoutant. Until then I'll read over what I can.

~ Ka

[Isabellkya]

I believe Lommy either had protection for last night, or for toDay; not both. I'm not sure if people are not seeing when others are clarify posting it, or just purposefully muddling it to benefit their wolfish ways.

The player to cast the decisive vote during a Stage2 Day may PM the Mod and choose to be protected either for the next Night or the next Day.

So really.. which would Lommy of chosen? To protect herself last night, or toDay?


I'm going to be paying more attention to McCaber.. and go look through his posts more finely. He was only on the edge of my concentration, but his last post just seems to be a summation of the previous posts before that.

[satansaloser2005]

I believe Lommy either had protection for last night, or for toDay; not both. I'm not sure if people are not seeing when others are clarify posting it, or just purposefully muddling it to benefit their wolfish ways.



So really.. which would Lommy of chosen? To protect herself last night, or toDay?


I'm going to be paying more attention to McCaber.. and go look through his posts more finely. He was only on the edge of my concentration, but his last post just seems to be a summation of the previous posts before that.



Sorry, not a big post from me, at least not at the moment. I was just checking the site before I went to bed and wanted to respond to this. Might help clear things up. I'm pretty sure that Lommie does indeed only get protected for one period (i.e. one night or one day) not both. However, if Lommie knew that Noggie was the guardian, she would know she wouldn't need to protect herself during the night. Therefore, reason dictates that she'd prefer to use it during the Day.

But the flip side is that she couldn't have known if there was more than one guardian (or for that matter if Noggie really was the guardian. By the way I'll have to look into that lovers' aspect more. It's worth consideration even though I don't think that Noggie and Rikae were the lovers) and so not protecting herself last night could have been a fatal mistake. But having two guardians in this game would just be plain silly, so my guess is that Lommie assumed she would be safe for the night. Besides, it's better (from a furry standpoint) to be unlynchable during the day than unkillable during the night, as the odds of being chosen by the guardian at night are slimmer.

Long and short of it is this: I think Lommie probably protected herself for toDay. Don't quote me on it, but it seems to make the most sense. So I think we should indeed try to lynch another werewolf today and then take care of Lommie later. My current lynch choices woud be McCaber and Valier, in that order, as I think both look quite fuzzy but I'd like to get more from Val in the line of evidence before we kill her.

I'm off to bed since it's almost 2am. I'm planning to sleep in (yay Saturdays!) but will definitely be up before the deadline and will be able to post, vote, etc. Good night ladies and gents!

[Brinniel]

I myself am leaning towards taking our chances with lynching Lommy. Even if it is a wasted lynch our numbers are a bit better. If we choose to lynch someone else, odds are we will choose wrongly. Then toMorrow we will only have one more than the wolves, assuming whomever is targeted is not saved by protection.
If I counted correctly, there are 11 of us left...five of which are wolves. There's no way to know for sure whether Lommy protected herself during the Night or Day...she obviously isn't going to tell us. But if we cannot risk the chance of a no lynch. Because if we did, the wolves would basically win as long as they successfully killed their victim tomorrow Night.

[Brinniel]

Okay, I just realised if Rikae is indeed a wolf, we still have a shot of winning even if there is a mis-lynch or no-lynch. But still we can't ever know that for sure...so I'd rather try to peg a wolf that is actually lynchable.

[Brinniel]

Right now, McCaber is looking most suspicious to me. I didn't like his switch to side with Naria yesterDay, saying he would've voted Roa when he looked like he was going to do the exact opposite. He also said a few comments to Nogrod I thought were odd.

Menel looks pretty fishy to me, and he could quite easily be lying about his role, especially if Legate was gifted. My main worry though is that he could be telling the truth...then what a horrible mistake that would be to lynch him. Valier made a valid point about him, but she has no way to prove her own innocence. If Menel is truthful it doesn't necessarily point to her guilt because Legate could've easily been a wolf too. If a wolf, Valier would know this and could easily be playing us. But I just don't know. I'm split between the two of them...either one of them could just as easily be innocent as they are suspicious. Which is why I'd rather not take the risk of lynching either toDay. There's no room for any error, simple as that.

[Brinniel]

I really don't like rushing this at all and I wish I had more time to think this over...but I have to leave this second and won't be back before the deadline. Therefore, I have to go with the one who looks most wolfish to me:

++McCaber

EDIT: Heh, just realised I quad posted...

[Aganzir]

I think Volo was merely joking about the lover thing. Besides, had Nog and Rikae truly been lovers, why on earth would Rikae have been all for lynching Nog then? Just to frame a gifted Lommy? I don't buy that.

Lommy annoys me (though I'm rather sure her fellow wolves are crying tears of laughter while reading her posts). And I agree with everybody who said that she should be ignored.

But I'm a bit perplexed about this Menel/Valier thing. Well, at least I'm surer than ever now that Legate wasn't a wolf...
If Valier is a wolf, there's no reason to doubt Menel's claim, which in itself looks rather suspicious though. If Menel is a wolf, he was gambling while claiming to be a gifted - he couldn't know if Val was one.
And why did Lommy declare Valier a wolf? Either she's Lommy's fellow and Lommy wants her to look more innocent or Menel's Lommy's fellow and Lommy is triple-bluffing. Ok, I'm not going to dwell on that at the moment.

By the way, if one of you got Nog's role, feel free to tell it even though it was rather clear anyway & Lommy has already provived us with her own version.

McCaber, well I do see some wolfishness in his behavior, but I think it would be a little risky to lynch him just yet rather than one of the other two I mentioned.
"1. Let's lynch Lommy who's probably protected!
2. Let's lynch Valier before she has a chance to question my gifted claim!
3. Since Cab is so suspected I think I must say something about him as well... They're going to lynch me if I say he looks innocent so I say I suspect him a little... But my preferences are those suspicious people voting for whom ensures our furry team's victory."

Ms. Joyce, why are you implying that Lommy was protected tonight? So that we could try to lynch her today, find her protected and help the wolves win (I'm speaking about the worst-case scenario, which we should consider to be true in order to avoid a fatal error)?
Ok, I know I might be flushing a gifted out by asking this, but I don't think it really matters anymore. I found your statement (especially repeating that you know she was protected) weird.

Pretty keen on lynching Nog though, which does alter my thoughts a bit.
That was only after Nog had said he considered hunting Rikae. Cab's reaction was understandable if he was a wolf with the ladies.

She made one post and didn't vote, so the choice of her was probably made for it's safety. How can there be trails if she never spoke?
Did she say anything that might have indicated giftedness on day 0 or their trial day? I'll check in a minute. We can't count on Roa being the gifted.

Valier could be an option, but it still hangs on whether Legate was telling the truth about being innocent.
This may be the last day and you're voting for someone whose guilt depends on a dying player's words?

but why would the wolves not have killed him last night? and why the sudden turn, almost blindly I may add...towards me?
I think Menel not being killed doesn't point to one way or another. The wolves can't know how many there are of each gifted, and if he was the ranger there was a chance that another ranger was protecting him.
But Valier, first you say you're sure Legate was a gifted, then that there's a good chance Menel is the ranger.

I myself am leaning towards taking our chances with lynching Lommy. Even if it is a wasted lynch our numbers are a bit better. If we choose to lynch someone else, odds are we will choose wrongly. Then toMorrow we will only have one more than the wolves, assuming whomever is targeted is not saved by protection.
How come you're so sure of both Rikae being a wolf and that trying to lynch Lommy now is a good idea?

However, if Lommie knew that Noggie was the guardian, she would know she wouldn't need to protect herself during the night.
I agree with you about this. I find it much more likely that there's just one guardian, as it's, after all, a role which can prove seriously catastrophic.

[Aganzir]

Nothing there. She looked definitely the most ordoish of those three. Why on earth was she killed if the wolves knew there was a plenty of gifteds around as well, or did I miss some subtle gifted hints? I refuse to believe the wolves picked a random kill.

Anyway, I'm off for a while.

[Valier]

well I'm off for work and I see nothing has changed. I still have high suspicions that Menel is indeed a wolf. I'm still not quite sure of his gung-ho behavior towards me. I do however think that McCaber is far more likely a wolf. His last post was just reiterating what has already been said and for a Ordo/Gifted that is very unhelpful.

++McCaber

Good luck all! May we all cringe our noses happily at the smell of burn fur today.

[Kath]

Here's a comment from sally I don't understand:
However, if Lommie knew that Noggie was the guardian, she would know she wouldn't need to protect herself during the night.
Why? I just really don't get where you're coming from here.

With this Immortality thing, there are two choices it seems. Lommy either protected herself last Night or toDay. If it's toDay and we try and lynch her that gives us a wasted lynch. If we try to lynch another wolf it helps us far more than trying to lynch someone who may possibly be immune to it.

Now, as to who we have as possible wolves.

Valier ~ pretty high up on the suspicion list of many, the only thing giving me real trouble is that Lommy outed her. As bold wolves go Lommy is obviously up there with the best of them so I wouldn't put it past her to reveal a fellow wolf. Valier is the main force behind suspicion of Menel here, yet the quotes she pulls out to 'prove' his wolvishness only serve to make it look like she is the wolf (post 402). Says if there were to be a wolvish sacrifice it would be McCaber. The thing with Valier is that she says a lot of things I actually quite agree with (apart from the Nog/Rik lover story) but she says them in such an odd fashiom. I'm not used to a Valier coming across as so ... desperate sounding, and I think that more than anything is what has me convinced of her wolvishness.

McCaber ~ changed his ideas once he found out Nog was thinking about taking Rikae with him rather than Lommy. If McCaber is a wolf along with Lommy that would only really make sense if Rikae was an innocent, otherwise McCaber is still sending a fellow wolf to the grave.

Menel ~ I can see why he is coming across as suspicious but I still think he is actually the Ranger. He has a bad habit of looking wolvish, it gets him killed in the early Days often, but I still think I can see some logic in his early revelation. As to why the wolves would not have killed him last Night it could have been in order to set up a .. well a set up, or possibly they thought there might be another Ranger that might protect him. Whatever the case, I still think he's telling the truth. There's a little group very ready to lynch him, with Valier and McCaber (two people I find very suspicious at the moment) the leaders of it, pushing me to think he is what he says he is.

As I was reading through I have another person that looks a bit odd and that is Izzy. If we lynch Lommy toDay and nothing happens we waste tomorrow in basically repeating a Day. She's also one with the Menel must be a wolf because he didn't die theory. However, Valier says she'll look at her and there is some logic behind what she said even if I don't agree with it. What she said niggles at me but I'm not sure it's enough for full blown suspicion.

Anyway, right now I have Valier at the very top of my suspect list and I'm pretty sure that is where my vote will be going. I would rather see her dead than McCaber because it is her that is following Lommy with trying to confuse (the lovers idea, the idea that Nog was not the Hunter and the idea that Lommy is merely a Cobbler and so might count toward innocent numbers).

[THE Ka]

Ms. Joyce, why are you implying that Lommy was protected tonight? So that we could try to lynch her today, find her protected and help the wolves win (I'm speaking about the worst-case scenario, which we should consider to be true in order to avoid a fatal error)?
Ok, I know I might be flushing a gifted out by asking this, but I don't think it really matters anymore. I found your statement (especially repeating that you know she was protected) weird.

Ms. Aganzir, Lommy casted the decisive vote= she could be immune from vote/attack either for last night or for today. I am certain that the immortality bit was used last night.
I don't think we should lynch her toDay, it doesn't make immediate sense, and I wish I had more time to reason all of this, but I have RL things this morning and can't be late. Again.

It might still matter, maybe I like my role... Amoungst the living. Then again, it is of course no consequence of mine whether I die or not. Though, I like the idea of living and being a supporting character and player.

My lips are sealed beyond that. I know you are clever enough to find the hints. If I am or not, so what. I just am interested in thinking about others right now, since my own life in this game matters because of it.

McCaber is a wolf along with Lommy that would only really make sense if Rikae was an innocent, otherwise McCaber is still sending a fellow wolf to the grave.

Which, I can see some logic in, distraction wise. If there is five of them amoung us, at least two are showing some fur. I think they might be able to sacrifice one for four, it is a common near-end game tactic (or when it is felt the game is ending). It all depends how eager our wolvies are.

I am really sorry about this, but I have to leave, now. I think I might already be late for my exam, ugh. Wish I could explain more, but I am out of time and won't make it back before deadline.

++McCaber


~ Ka

[Thinlómien]

The one I think we shouldn't lynch in any case is Brinniel. She seems innocent to me.

The ones we should lynch, double-lynch actually, are Kath and Aganzir. I'm sure they're gif... err... wolves. :D

There's some advice I'd like to give.
Protector(s), I suggest you protect Kath next Night.
Defender(s), I suggest you dream of Aganzir next Night.
Councellor(s), I suggest you ally yourself/ves with Sally and Valier, at least. Possibly with THE Ka, Aganzir and McCaber too.
Wolves, I suggest you kill McCaber.

What else?


I'm recanting my suspicion of Ka somewhat mostly because she came out with the Immortality explanatlieion. I'm aware that was in the rules but if she was a wolf I doubt she'd help us avoid the possibility of a wasted lynch. So, let's have a look at McCaber and Var.What? Just because she knows the rules she's not a wolf? Fine logic.

Lommy was trying very hard to stay alive yesterDay, would a fellow wolf be quite so bold as to try and get her killed even if it was through Nog? I don't know.I'm sure there was no wolf in ww history who ever did that. Besides, yesterDay the main lynch candidates were I, Nogrod and McCaber himself, so why couldn't he have done that?

Oh yes, and Naria, I said I would look at why she was killed but there's nothing to look at. She made one post and didn't vote, so the choice of her was probably made for it's safety. How can there be trails if she never spoke?What about Day0 and trials? :rolleyes:

Everyone knows Valier's instincts, why not get rid of her if you have the chance? Well, because she is a wolf. Or because she should be let to play more than one Day for a change? Or because she's completely wrong with her famous instincts? Or because she looks like a cobbler? There are dozens of reasons.

Right now, I honestly don't like how Menel pulls for the lynching of Lommy...after Kath's post, he should know it would be too risky. He also leaves open the slight possiblity of Lommy's innocence, which I don't believe for one second...wavering even slightly about something like that seems wolfy to me.Some of us are risk-takers, Brinn - not everyone is a sheep like you. What's wrong with Menel being a risk-taker? And wavering? You seem to forget the crucial point which is that non-Defender gifteds and ordos don't know the facts, unlike you wolves and possibly the Defenders, so they can't be sure. Fishy, Brinn, fishy.

My apologies for not seeing the immortality thing.AN APOLOGY! WEREWOLF LOREBOOK CHAPTER 1: "WOLVES APOLOGISE"! I'M SURE YOU'VE ALL READ IT! LYNCH HIM! LYNCH! (sorry, I just realised I like CAPS LOCK and wow, I jsut realised the "caps" is just not a random term, but short for "capitals" as in "capital letters"... omg, I'm so silly. :D)

Valier could be an option, but it still hangs on whether Legate was telling the truth about being innocent.I think all declarations of innocence, unless specified, should be ignored. Really. We could all be just calling ourselves innocent and then we couldn't lynch anybody becasue they said they're innocent and you have to trust people in principle, or that's my principle, not in ww, though, and yes, what was I saying, oh, I got a hilarious idea, let's just all pronounce ourselves innocents so no one gets lynched. I'll start:

I AM INNOCENT.

hello dear villagers. let me apologize again for my lateness. I have read through most of yesterday but I wanted to make a few things clear.Another apologising wolf! KILL HER!

Really if he was the Ranger how would we ever know?I know. Let's lynch him and wait what kind of information comes about.

I, my fellow villagers am an Innocent.Yay, Valier joined my decalration experiment before I even started it! You must be a seer, Val!

I myself am leaning towards taking our chances with lynching Lommy. Even if it is a wasted lynch our numbers are a bit better.Izzie, my friend, whose numbers? Ours or ours? Anyway, I fail to see your point, if you lynched me and I was protected, the numbers would be exactly the same as this morning. Or am I missing something?

Oh, I need a pause. I'll reply the rest of the posts a bit later. *sigh*

edit: xed with ka and removed about 99% of the content... sorry
edit2: bolded Izzie's name and removed the sentence "I'm a wolf"

[Aganzir]

Looks like this is going to be a relatively quiet day. Where is everyone?

However, if Lommie knew that Noggie was the guardian, she would know she wouldn't need to protect herself during the night.

Why? I just really don't get where you're coming from here.
The way I understood it was that if Nog was the guardian, Lommy had little or no chance to get killed during the night. I don't know about others, but at least I've been thinking there's more likely just one guardian.

McCaber ~ changed his ideas once he found out Nog was thinking about taking Rikae with him rather than Lommy. If McCaber is a wolf along with Lommy that would only really make sense if Rikae was an innocent, otherwise McCaber is still sending a fellow wolf to the grave.
Rather send one to the grave than two. Had Nog not been lynched, he'd have taken also Lommy the next night. So I can see the sense in that also.

Ka, logically thinking I wouldn't be that sure. Not that it matters anymore, though. I don't think she will be lynched today anyway.

Voting record
Menel: Valier
Brinn: Cab
Val: Cab
Ka: Cab
(Cab-3, Val-1)

Left to vote: sally, Cab, Lommy, Kath, Zali, Izzy, Agan

Thus far it looks like Cab's going to be killed, and that's a good thing (at least IMO). He's a wolf or I'll eat my Swedish textbook (and am sure that I won't start missing it).

[Thinlómien]

I will be around here 'til the deathline, probably away for longer and shorter whiles, but keeping an eye on you little sheep, like a good shepherd. (Besides, sheep make good iskender kebab. :p)

So I guess I'm confused as to where this talk of lovers being ordo's is coming from and what not.Probably because in most of the BD ww games lovers have been an ordo and a wolf. Not always, though.

And why did Lommy declare Valier a wolf? Either she's Lommy's fellow and Lommy wants her to look more innocent or Menel's Lommy's fellow and Lommy is triple-bluffing. Ok, I'm not going to dwell on that at the moment.
Or Legate was my fellow and I'm just having fun. :Merisu:

I find it much more likely that there's just one guardian, as it's, after all, a role which can prove seriously catastrophic.Yes, I think Nogrod proved that already... ;)

Looks like this is going to be a relatively quiet day. Where is everyone?Too busy hiding their fur.

He's a wolf or I'll eat my Swedish textbook (and am sure that I won't start missing it).Could you eat mine as well?

[Aganzir]

Could you eat mine as well?
I eat only advanced level textbooks.

I'm going to be around until the deadline as well, but I doubt my opinion will change.

++ McCaber

Voting record
Menel: Valier
Brinn: Cab
Val: Cab
Ka: Cab
Agan: Cab
(Cab-4, Val-1)

Left to vote: sally, Cab, Lommy, Kath, Zali, Izzy

I would say this looks like a nasty bandwagon if I didn't feel so strong about killing Cab.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I'm here, now. Sorry for the late appearance.

It's clear to me that Lommy is a wolf who knows she's found out and is now muddying the waters for the sheer joy of it. Glad to see you're having fun. :)

She'll probably be getting my vote tomorrow.

In the meantime, I'm going to vote

++McCaber

Because he is just...odd. Aside from Lommy, he looks the most like a wolf. I'm going with the same instinct that fueled my vote yesterDay.

[McCaber]

Ouch, guess this'll be the day that I die.

I still think there are many more obvious candidates than me, I mean look at Menel, or Val, or, or, ... ok, panic attack over. Oh well, I guess I brought this on myself. It's been fun, though.

[Thinlómien]

I love bandwagons.

++MCCABER

[McCaber]

Ah, well. If you can't beat 'em, eat 'em.

++McCaber

[Thinlómien]

:D :D :D

That was probably the funniest self-vote ever.

[McCaber]

Thank you. I'm having fun here. How about the rest of you?

[Aganzir]

So, Cab, are you a wolf?

[McCaber]

Nope

[Isabellkya]

How come you're so sure of both Rikae being a wolf and that trying to lynch Lommy now is a good idea?

I see what is trying to be done, yet the information is quite obvious. Ignoring the information speaks volumes of either fur or Cobbler. With that said; I had thought Greenie was the wolf, but it appears that Rikae was. Either way, it doesn't really matter as it doesn't change the numbers much.. they just switch. Unless I am mistaken - it is 7/4 at the moment. (Assuming of course that both Nogrod and Naria are non-wolf.. which is obvious they are.) If we lynch right, toMorrow most likely it will be 6/3. If we lynch wrong, toMorrow will see 5/4. If we try to lynch Lommy and fail due to her chosen protection of toDay.. then toMorrow we will see 6/4.

I'm not sure how volo is deciding the decisive lyncher.. but to me it looks like Lommy just grabbed it again. With her vote making it 6 against McCaber, with not enough votes to outlynch him if all of the voters went to Valier. I hope I am wrong..

X'd with Lommy, McCaber, Aganzir, McCaber.

[Aganzir]

I forgot you three were in the same trial. :o

[Thinlómien]

So, Cab, are you even a cobbler?

[McCaber]

Does it matter?

[Thinlómien]

Ni.

[Kath]

Well this is all very interesting. If there is to be a bandwagon I'm glad it's against someone I suspect. However, I still find Valier more suspicious so even though this is apparently useless:

++VALIER

[Thinlómien]

Everything is calm like a dead squirrel.

[Isabellkya]

++Azaelia

I think I would've voted for McCaber had I actually gone through his posts.. yet I mainly skimmed, and didn't jot down any notes. I think voting him now is just a bit of overkill. He is going to die, so I'd rather put my vote elsewhere. I choose to place it here, because she is 'probably' going to vote for Lommy toMorrow.. even though right before she said this, she stated it was obvious that Lommy was a wolf. I think all in all, her posts are very vague.. and I think I've forgotten she was here.

x'd with Lommy, Kath, Lommy.

[Aganzir]

Thank you all, then. Despite the serious disadvantage, you were worthy opponents. On night 1 we truly believed we had no chance.

Eternal life here we come

[satansaloser2005]

Terribly sorry loves, but I slept in a lot more than I'd planned on. I was all for lynching Cabbie (yay nicknames!) but....well, I believe him now, mostly because he seems the honest type and he didn't even try to save his own skin. So although it won't make a difference in the long run....

++Val

....because that way it won't be pretty much a complete shutout. We'll miss you Cabbie, and if you ARE a wolf, I'll eat my entire movie collection (and believe me, that's a lot to eat hehe). I'll shush now, as it's almost deadline. Remember, my dear competitors, if both Cabbie and Rikae were innocents, the ranger must choose wisely tonight as for whom to save. I'd hate to see us lose this Night just based on misconceptions and foolishness, with the wolves laughing at us all along the way. Actually, I think the image of the wolves giggling would be a funny one, but I hate to see it nonetheless.

~~Sally~~

[satansaloser2005]

OH! I miscounted! Hahahaha! Forget that whole last post then....nice knowing ya village!

[Volo]

Those who woke on the second day of the untimate madness, were welcomed outside by falling snow. It fell through the great arches in the walls of the Golden Temple. The soft snow was forming a cresent on the ground. In the middle of the cresent, where Nogrod’s body had lain, a great stone stood. The side facing the snow cresent was rough, grey and rounded. The side facing away was more peculiar, it was perfectly smooth and coloured with all the colours of the rainbow. The colours were truly a part of the stone and not just reflections, although they did seem to shine, but the stone felt somehow different from a gem. Even stranger than that was that when one looked at the stone from the smooth side, one could see farther than the other end. Yes, one could also see where the stone ended with the grey side, but it was possible to see other things as well. The things one could see were just formations of the colour with no objective meaning, but if one not only stared into the stone, but also into one’s mind, he find reflections. What the warriors saw, they didn’t mention to others, especially because they thought that they were the only ones seeing things.

Thinlómien was one of those who didn’t ponder about what they saw. Instead she danced an Elvish bellydance and shouted nonsense. She was the Immortal of three dimencions. The Ancient Beast didn’t even look like the Orc-Elf anymore, though the change was small, it was noticeable. At places her skin broke and black gaps were revealed. She continued laughing in triumph and her voice was truly terrifying.

As the Whiteness entered the arena, Thinlómien became the only thing that the other warriors could see clearly because she seemed to have a black aura around her. Kath, to whom the snowfall brought hope, asked Thinlómien what her Immortality meant. Why was she here seeking eternal life, if she was already immortal?

”Immortal? I’m always immortal. I mean Immortality itself was named after me, so of course I can’t die”, Thinlómien said and sent a vicked smile at the Whiteness around her. ”You don’t scare me, Kath, I know what you are and I might even ask you the same question as you asked me. But, oh! You’ve found that your time does end?”

Menel took out his sword and said in a commanding voice. ”The Beast must be killed, now! The snow is a sign from the Moose Star. Don’t you see that the Star commands us to do it?” The Mooseslayer turned to Valier. ”And you aren't a Ranger! I know! A Ranger would never have, and hold, a sword like that. Neither was Legate a Ranger and I doubt you wouldn’t agree. How do I know? Because I am a Ranger, imbued with the power of the Valar. I got tired of being a Hunter many years ago and so I changed my profession. Good for me, haha”.

”You’re wrong. Come kill me and if you manage to do that I’ll die as a martyr. Your Star knows little to tell you such things”, answered Thinlómien in a surprisingly serious tone.

”Yeah, we can’t know if that Beast is what she says she is, so what about kicking Menel’s butt? Huh?” mumbled Brinn the Emo and struck a few ugly notes on her guitar.

”I agree. Though Menel is right, I cannot protect you at nights, he can’t either. Remember Legate’s dying words. Now those were the words of a true Ranger”, said Valier, ”I’m Innocent like the newfallen snow”.

”No way! Menel is a Protector. I’m a Jäger myself and I have heard a lot about the deeds of Menel. I even met him once before, he told me that he was getting bored of being a Hunter. Having that said, I think Valier is lying… However there is something odd in her, she doesn’t walk like a Wolf… I agree with Menel about killing Thinlómien, I know that he's a good tracker”, revealed Izz.

It took people time to recognize the man, who stood in the shadowy part of the arena, although a lot of talk had went on about him. McCaber said, ”Hmph… Menel is a liar, who doesn’t care about his life. Nobody in his right mind would reveal being the Protector as soon as Menel did”.

Menel’s tolerance ended. ”It’s time to get it over with”, he shouted and rushed at Valier. Before he was even half-way, Brinn, McCaber and Thinlómien were upon him and held him back.

”Watch it!” spat Brinn as the ex-Hunter tried to kick her off. ”There’s a chance you’re telling the truth and that is the only thing holding me back from killing you here and now. Though nah, truth be said, it’s because McCaber here looks even worse”. She let go of Menel and the other two followed.

At first McCaber defended himself. ”Me a minion of Evil? You can’t be serious! I have killed more of Morgoth’s followers than all of you have killed together, even if one also counts the countless innocents you slaughtered. In the name of Evil, no doubt! I killed every single of the Rhtch’haag, the abominable monsters the Sisterhood of the Pliers created. You need proof, ok, I’ve got it. Have you ever even heard of the Rhtch’haag? No? Hmph, I told you”. The fanatic assassin ran out of breath.

”He does look suspicious”, agreed Valier.

And he sure did, Taliesin, Aganzir, Azaelia and Thinlómien agreed with Brinn and slowly advanced at McCaber, who had already began a new story.

”-he got away, and still I seek the Vampire. Who will rid the land of such an evil if not me? Who? Who? Who was born under the Third Sigil of Fire? Not you, or-” Total silence fell when he suddenly stopped midsentence. He looked around himself and said, ”Ah, well. If you can't beat 'em, eat 'em”, in an odd voice, took a small purple vial from a hidden pocket and drank the stuff. With a smile he explained, ”Cyanide”.

”So, McCaber, are you a Wolf?” asked Aganzir.

”Nope”.

”So, McCaber, are you even the Councillor?” asked Thinlómien.

”Does it matter?”

”Ni”.

The assassin fell to the ground and began tossing around. In a few minutes he stopped moving and his shadow dissolved. A little book fell from his hand.

Taliesin stepped towards the body and lifted the book. It was a journal of some sort. The beginning was about whom McCaber had killed. Nearly all of his victims were servants of Morgoth. It was a long list. After one point there began to be more text, the thoughts of McCaber:

----------~~

McCaber’s friend back at home had recently died and he had become quite afraid of dying himself. He would not sleep and his pursuit to rid the world of Evil was slowed down. One day he stumbled upon a scholar, who had found a way to escape death. The scholar was quite old himself and didn’t dare try his plans in practise. McCaber, however, was eager and the scholar decided to tell him about his finds. The scholar told McCaber that Death could be brought into a living physical form through a complicated ritual. If one could destroy the Avatar of Death, there would probably be no death and so life would be eternal. McCaber thought that he had nothing to lose and agreed to try it out.

The physical form chosen for Death’s body was a little orphan girl who had been the scholars servant for some time. The scholar prepared everything for the experiment and McCaber tried it out. The first part worked out well, something filled the girl. She, or It, could float purposefully, but there was no sign of being able to communicate. McCaber steeled himself and decided not to waver. He killed the girl. Nothing happened.

McCaber and the scholar sat silent for the rest of the evening. McCaber would leave on the next morning. During the night he lay restless. What could have happened? Why did the girl begin to levitate and why was that all? He didn’t notice it at first but certain thoughts were trying to push themselves into his head. The thoughts grew stronger. They weren’t his own thoughts, he knew that because he couldn’t find any reason for them. Something continuously suggested that the scholar was a liar and should be punished. What McCaber noticed that the thoughts weren’t his own, he thought he could just block them and for a while he succeeded. Finally exhaustion took over and he fell asleep.

In the morning, when McCaber awoke, he saw that the scholar had prepared breakfast for him. McCaber ate peacefully and thanked the scholar, who was bringing McCaber some honey at the moment. The scholar looked quite nervous and when McCaber lifted the mug the expression of the scholar twitched a bit. McCaber’s assassin instinct said that something was wrong. He looked into the mug and saw traces of something in it. He knew what it was that instant, cyanide. McCaber slit open the scholar’s throat and ran away from the house.

---------~~

After that the journal continued with names of McCaber’s victims. The farther it went, the less his victims were of Morgoth, until there were only several names at all, those however were Morgoth’s minions. Only a few other real entries were found and all of them rotated around being unable to control himself and now not only fearing death but also life.

One entry was differed. It was quite recent. In it McCaber said that it was the first time he felt free for several months and that his Other Side was heading for the great competition on Númenor. The prize would be eternal life, but the Other Side had completely different motives. After that only one page wasn't blank. "Built from blind faith, passed down from self-induced fantasy, inflicting wounds with your cross-turned dagger" was written in blood.

Taliesin finished the story and looked around...

-----------~~

Around:
Brinniel
THE Ka
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
Thinlómien
Valier
Meneltarmacil
Kath
Naria
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Isabellkya

Gone:
Legate of Amon Lanc - lynched on Day0.1 - teleported away
Roa_Aoife - lynched on Day0.2 - joined the dance
Shastanis Althereduin - lynched on Day0.3 - reincarnated as the first Man
The Might - lynched on Day0.4 - escorted away and sailed away
Gil-Galad - lynched on Day0.5 - disappeared in a gate to a different world
Groin Redbeard - lynched on Day0.6 - returned to where he came from
A Little Green - lynched on Day0.7 - ended up on the moon
Ugh-Friedrich - wasn't allowed to enter the temple after stage1
Nogrod - lynched on Day1 - destroyed by his daughter
Rikae - hunted down by Nogrod on Day1 - carried away by the Great White Wolf
McCaber - lynched on Day2 - managed to escape

---------~~

The game ended.

Wolves win.
Counsillor wins.
Defenders lose.
Protectors lose.
Guardian loses.
Innocents lose.
Mod loses.

[Volo]

Taliesin looked around. There were only ten of them left. Beside him stood Azaelia, a bit farther Brinn, Valier, Aganzir and Thinlómien, all of the four smiled. A silence hung over the battlefield. Sally and Emily joined the company of the smiling women.

”So…?” ventured Izz, but nobody answered.

Menel shifted slightly.

Kath hoovered nearer.

The wind had calmed down and no snow fell through the great arches anymore. The situation was so tense that the pressure inside the temple might have really risen. Everybody waited for something to happen and gazes slowly followed one another towards the balcony. Faint footsteps neared.

Aganzir dropped to one knee as the steps grew louder. The ring on her finger chime quietly to the rhythm of the footsteps. ”My love…”

Sauron entered the balcony and his four minions knealt before him. He looked at the ten living warriors in a pondering way and smiled. His look fell on the Wolves. ”I am grateful for what you did. The experiment was successful.” Sauron turned his eyes at Aganzir and let a little smile. ”Khamul, dear, the rest is yours.” He turned around and left.

----------~~

The five winners rose.

”You are Khamul? He who doesn’t lie?” gasped Taliesin.

”Yes, I am Khamul. I am She Who Doesn’t Lie.”

”And you five are the Werewolves?” asked Azaelia.

Brinn took out a cigarette, lit it and chuckled in an insulting manner ”Do we look like Werewolves, or something?”

”No, you don’t. I have never seen a Wolf like you. But you are Wolves, aren’t you?” pondered Izz the Jäger.

”Nope. I said it’s not so obvious”, answered Thinlómien and a little jet of flame from inside ripped open her cheek.

”We’re not exactly Werewolves, though some of us could be”, specified Aganzir and took out her bow.

Another flame leapt out of Thinlómien and left a dark hole behind it. Kath said, ”I fear I know who she is.”

”Me? Of course you know who I am, Kath! I’m what you once were”, laughed Thinlómien, ”I’m Immortal.”

”The what?” shouted Azaelia.

”She’s the Ancient Beast. And I must say that you’re unlucky that she’s here”, explained Valier.

”But what is she?” tried Taliesin, ”Khamul!”

”Hpmh, misusing my honesty like that… It is obvious, you know, that Thinlómien is a Balrog.”

”A Balrog? You mean she has fiery w-” yelled Izz in unhealthy exitement, but before she could finish her sentence or Aganzir answer it, they were interrupted by a loud ”honk” from Emily.

Brinn finished her cigarette and said, ”Don’t you think it’s about time we deal with those fools?”

”It is”, Valier confirmed.

”Well, not necessarily, we don’t need to hurry anything. It would much more fun to pull out the nails first, then cut out their eyes, maybe burn them a bit, eat one of them…” suggested Aganzir.

”Since you mentioned eating, I’m kind of depressed that we didn’t get a laid table waiting for us. That McCaber looked quite tasty, but cyanide… I don’t think even my stomach would manage cyanide well. Emily, maybe – me, no”, complained Sally.

”Enough talk about eating us! It’s disgusting! Show your true forms and you shall see mine!” roared Menel and tried to rush Valier down one more time.

Each Wolf quickly chose a target and four of them leapt away from Menel, while Valier simply dodged.

-----------~~

Valier dodged and turned to face Menel with her magnificent longsword drawn. ”I must say that it’s ironic that you want me dead so madly”, the Ranger said as she thrust at Menel.

”What’s so ironic about that? You’ve been just as madly trying to get me killed?” Menel sidestepped Valier’s blow and continued with a swipe at her feet.

She hopped a few steps backwards and took her stance again. ”You’ll be surprised! And you’ll wish that you hadn’t dropped you hunting skills.”

”Oh, most of them are still here in my head”, to show this the Protector sent out a special blow usually used to bring down bears.

Valier just had enough time to block it. ”Not bad, not bad. However that’s not what I meant. You asked for my true form, fine with me. It would actually clear things significantly.” Between each blow Valier retreated a little bit towards the snow cresent. ”You weren’t so wrong when you said that the snow is a sign, you know.”

”Even if you’re a big nasty snow-woman in reality, you won’t defeat me. I was sent here to fulfill the wish of the Moose Start and that I shall do!”

”Exactly!” that said Valier jumped on the pile of snow and where the Ranger should have stood, a white deer stood.

Menel gasped and decided against following Valier on the snow.

”You didn’t expect me to turn into a bloodthirsty black sheep, did you now?” Valier’s voice said through the deer’s mouth. ”The boy who lived won’t live much longer. That’s what happens to warriors who underestimate their enemy.”

”You-you-you’re- you can’t be-”

”But I am!” the Weredeer stood on the snowpile and looked down on the Protector. ”And you dare call yourself the Mooseslayer! You were that, you definitely were that! But you’re not anymore. How could you be if you couldn’t see that I’m what you had hunted for many years!” She glared at Menel with piercing agony.

Menel shook his head in disbelief. ”Norsolit… The Weremoose of the North…”

”Yees, now you see. I told you. But may I correct you that I’m not actually a Weremoose, I’m a true Weredeer. That helm you have was once my brother Tilnosor, the Were-elk of the East. And you, my dear fool, are the slayer of my other brother, Sorontil, the Weremoose of the West.”

”I know it, dammit! Why, why did you follow me here?”

”Did I follow you?” Norsolit said and tried to look innocent, but had some trouble looking more innocent than a fanged deer. ”I was just as shoked to see you here! Had you not crowned yourself with my brother’s antlers and claimed that filthy title, I probably wouldn’t have recognised you.”

”Then how?”

”Haa! Now here’s something you didn’t know, listen carefully. The Moosestar…” said the Weredeer and made a dramatic pause.

”What!?”

”Has two sides!”

”No way!” Menel yelled and whiped the freezing sweat off his brow.

”Yes yes, you know only the Evil side of it. Why else whould you think the Maia of our kind wanted to kill us?”

Menel stopped, clearly pondering on it. Then he grimassed in mental pain having to accept it.

”One day, the Good Moosestar came to me and told me that I would become the hero of my kind by travelling to this very competition. It’s only a guess, but I think that was the same day the Evil Moosestar set you to your mission.”

Suddenly Menel was very calm and showed no emotion. ”Thanks for all the fish.”

”What?” a tiny sign of worry flew with the Weredeer’s voice.

”’Thanks for all the fish’. That was it… Hey, Valier, did the Good Moosestar say anything like that?”

”No…”

”Hmh… How very, very strange…”

”Whatever! Now we’re both here. Finally I can avenge my brothers and save us!” She leapt off the snowpile in the deerform and plunged at Menel’s face.”

Menel would have lifted his sword and cut the Weredeer’s head off if it weren’t for the Scar. As Valier left the snow, the antler-shaped scar on Menel’s brow sent a paralyzing wave of pain and rendered him helpless.

Valier sunk her fangs deep into the ex-Mooseslayer’s face and ripped it open.

So ended the eternal struggle between the Good side and the Evil side of the Moosestar.

---------~~

An odd set of objects flew at Izz: Several iocane-dipped arrows, a spork, three magical cards and a heavy load of sarcarm. Izz wasn’t a person who concentrated on defense, or at least true defense, as she was the follower of the phrase ”offence is the best defense”. In this situation however offence served little help. She’d have to survive without fancy shields. Luckly for her, her reflexes very quite remarkable - when they weren’t drowned in Jägermeister.

Izz decided to deal with the incoming missiles by getting rid of the most dangerous items first. She threw three knives with great precision at the three magical cards, which exploded as they were hit.

The arrows were trickier. Izz had to do some serious blocking with her Plunger of DOOM. Even the tiniest contact of the arrows and her skin might have become fatal. She managed.

Now for the sarcasm, the deadliest of them all. Good thing was that sarcasm is quite slow to reach its target. Izz grabbed her Pint of Jäger and swooped the sarcasm into it. With one effifient gulp she swallowed the whole pint and left it to her gastric acids to defuse the sarcasm.

At that moment the spork hit her right in the middle of her forehead, leaving a bloody bruise.

”Never, ever, underestimate the spork”, said Sally, who followed her missiles would-be-more-peacefully, ”I’m a very nice person really so I’ll comfort you with the knowledge that rarelly my enemies reach as far as the spork, and those who do, fall by it.”

Izz had a hard skull so she still had options of doing something. She whiped her skull making it less bloody. ”You’re a Werewolf and nothing more. I can deal with such!”

”Quack?” asked Emily, who followed Sally would-be-even-more-peacefully-than-Sally.

”No, soon”, Sally answered Emily and turned to Izz, ”I’d like to quote Brinn. Do I look like a Werewolf? Do I?”

Izz didn’t bother answering.

”Hm. Emily, do I look like a Werewolf?”

”Honk, honk.”

”There. Emily doesn’t think I look like a Werewolf. Don’t bother asking ’What are you then?’ I’m not much, just Sally Underdale, Keeper of the Random Objects, a friend of Emily’s.”

The Jäger answered by tossing two knives.

Sally tossed two magic cards and the knives exploded. ”Works both ways, doesn’t it. Emily, please.”

The duck dissolved into thin air.

”I must say it was nice knowing you.” Said Sally and winked.

”I’m not dead yet!” shouted Izz in annoyance. The sarcasm had finally been digested. The Jäger grabbed the Plunger of DOOM and leapt at would-be-peaceful Sally.

”I see you have the Plunger of DOOM, well I’ve also got an item of DOOM in my possession.”

Just as Izz was about to plunge the Plunger into Sally, her arms threw themselves into the opposite direction of the Duck Whisperer. Her feet were frozen to the grownd, but something pulled her arms. Izz’s whole body was assailed by pain and she lost control of all her muscles.

To make matters worse, Sally drew out her enchanted compass and placed it under Izz. The compass glowed- no, burned, with a purple flame. The flames licked Izz’s body and the unknown force continued ripping her appart. Joint by joint Izz’s body cracked and broke. Her outstreched body moved to hang directly over the purple fire.

Izz wasn’t sure what the fire did to her, partly because there was very little space for concentration left in her. If it could be possible, she felt like boiling allover.

While Izz was still somehow conscious, Emily appeared on top of her. Sally came over and digged out Izz’s heart with a spork.

The last thing Izz saw was Emily honking in joy and ripping at her boiling heart.

---------~~

There was so much battle going on. The noise, the smell, the tension, the madness… It was crazy! She was trying to find a way out. Why did she ever end up here in the first place? She couldn’t even remember herself. It might have been because of her older brother. He always goes on talking about his exciting adventures and – yes – he probably convinced her. Or was it some other place he had told he had been to? Maybe… Azaelia tripped over her own heel.

”Oh dear, I don’t think that’s even average. I must be turning below-average”, she said to herself. Azaelia stood up and hit her head against something. She creamed and turned around. A throwing axe was stuck to the wall of the arena.

Whiuhiuhiuhiuhiuhiuh –THUNK!

Another throwing axe was now stuck to the wall, and with it Azaelia’s sleeve. She screemed! Then she screemed again and tried to free her sleeve, but the axe didn’t move. She screamed for a third time, even more wildly and pulled at the axe with her whole strength. Nothing happened.

Azaelia braced herself against a better-aimed axe coming next, but instead of an axe, Aganzir herself came. Showing even less emotion than usually, Aganzir walked right up to Azaelia and plucked the two axes off the wall. Azaelia watched in fright.

”Get up, little Miss”, said Aganzir and yanked Azaelia to her feet. ”Do you have idea why I didn’t kill you with an axe?”

”No!” Azaelia squeaked.

”If I didn’t have a reputation to keep up I’d lie to you, but I missed with the first two ones.”

Azaelia gulped at Aganzir’s gaze, the most uninterested staring gaze any mortal had ever encountered.

”I didn’t throw a third one because you were caught with that sleeve of yours. I prefer running targets, although I have to admit that you were screaming quite heartwarmingly.”

Azaelia wanted to gulp again but found that she couldn’t dare to do so. She grabbed the edges of her dress instead and started sobbing. How could somebody be so cruel, why could somebody be so cruel? Her sobbing turned into crying.

"Quit that. Now, get ready to fight and die." Aganzir moved a few steps away from Azaelia and continued with the most uninterested evil laughter ever heard, "Muahahahaha. No man can kill me!"

"Don't kill me! Please..." Azaelia gulped several times and quietened down letting only irregular sobs.

Aganzir stood in front of Azaelia and waited for something, almost suggestively she said "No man can kill me!"

Azaelia quietened completely and looked confusedly at Aganzir. Then suddenly her face brightened, but just for a shirt time. "Why do you tell that to me?"

"As I said, I prefer killing moving targets."

"O. k... But I don't have a weapon." Azaelia only now noticed that she had left even her kebab stickers in her chamber.

"That is pathetic", Aganzir took out a long dagger from under her black cloak and tossed it to Azaelia's feet. She herself lifted a decorated hatchet.

Azaelia lifted the dagger, thought about her big brother and tried to stab Aganzir, who dodged and punched at Azaelia with her left fist. The hit caught Azaelia, but she bravely attacked back. Each time Azaelia tried to swing the dagger at Aganzir, it was met by the axe and pushed far away after which Aganzir sent another humiliating punch. The stabs and swings became more careless with each time Azaelia was hit. All bruised and bleeding, she would have exhausted herself to death if not for Azaelia stubling over her own heel while pushing herself for a thrust.

The axe parried empty air while the blade of the dagger pierced Aganzir under the ribs. Azaelia let go off the dagger in fear when she noticed that it had stuck in her enemy. She backed off uncertainly.

”I don’t want to die”, said the Black Easterling and looked down at her wound. Slowly she lifted her stare into Azaelia’s eyes, who decided that fear was passed along with dagger.

Comprehending what she had done, Azaelia’s mouth moved into a grin and she cried. ”I’m no longer Azaelia the Average! I’m Azaelia the Above-Average. And no! I’m more! I’m Azaelia the 20-Times-Better-Than-The-Best-Of-The-Above-Average! Yes. I am!” She glanced at Aganzir who continued standing pierced. She stopped too and they both stared at each other for a moment.

”I beat Khamul! I beat Khamul! I’m Azaelia! And I beat Khamul! And that’s because I’m 20-Times-Better-Than-Th–”

With a cling the dagger fell at Azaelia’s feet. Aganzir stood before her with her outstreched arm and open palm. All the time she gazed at Azaelia completely uninterestedly.

”You, you, you lied! You lied to me!” Azaelia roared with anger. ”You betrayed me!”

”No. You misunderstood my words”. For the first time Aganzir smiled amusedly. ”Funny how you people think that mortal women are someway better at killing me than mortal men. Seriously”. She lifted the sacrificial hatchet and brought it down on Azaelia’s forhead.

---------~~

More narration coming later.

[Volo]

If something odd happens.

[Aganzir]

Can we talk or do we have to wait for the final narration?

[satansaloser2005]

Can we talk or do we have to wait for the final narration?

Meh. Looks like Volo's toddled off into Narration World. By the way I have all our PMs ready to post, but I'll wait until the official "okey dokey" before I share them. And what's this "just in case something weird happens" business? Oh well. I'm off for some lunch.

[Aganzir]

Meh. Looks like Volo's toddled off into Narration World. By the way I have all our PMs ready to post, but I'll wait until the official "okey dokey" before I share them. And what's this "just in case something weird happens" business? Oh well. I'm off for some lunch.
Looks like that. That's fine, at least in my opinion they were rather interesting. :D
I guess he will edit those posts into a narration later.

[satansaloser2005]

Looks like that. That's fine, at least in my opinion they were rather interesting. :D
I guess he will edit those posts into a narration later.

Most likely. Alright, PMs coming right up....

[Thinlómien]

So we can gloat? I say YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!

:D :rolleyes:

I never thought I'd enjoy wolfing some day, but I did, at least from time to time. Mostly thanks to my awesome fellows, we had a great team spirit and our nightly discussions were hilarious. :D

But I still prefer being all nice & innocent, suits me better as I'm afraid I'm very bad at being dishonest.

[satansaloser2005]

================================================== ==============================
From : Volo
To : satansaloser2005
Date : 2008-01-14 12:42
Title : WW42 ROLE!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are a Werewolf!

Your fellows will be revealed to you during Night1.

================================================== ==============================
From : Volo
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-22 14:12
Title : Wolves!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello dear Wolves!

Congratulations on surviving!

You may now PM one another at Nights.

ModVolo

PS: Friend Valier would like to inform you that she'll be around only after six hours or so from now (deadline time).

================================================== ==============================
From : Thinlómien
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Valier
Date : 2008-01-22 14:21
Title : Full moooooooooooooooooooooon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello fellows.

I'd love to start with a cheerful greeting but I'm afraid I can't. Really. I think we're going to lose this game: we have no kill toNight and one of us (=me) is practically lynched already. The gifteds and lynch-informations are going to make up a list of known innocents really quickly. I really can't see us winning this game, at least not with a normal style.

So, I think we should play a totally crazy game. Like, vote for the same person (no one is ever going to believe we're all wolves if we vote the same person, however silly the reason), come out as gifteds and lie ruthlessly about the roles of the lynched. It should be fun.

I've been toying with the idea of coming out as a seer toMorrow. I could say I've been under so much suspicion that I'm afraid I will be lynched. I would announce Nogrod and possibly someone else too as wolves - or claim somebody innocent. Then, just imagine, if you all "believed" me, we could possibly get one 95% sure gifted lynched and no one would catch us all. It's be hilarious.

Yes, I'm quite sure Noggie is gifted, because I'm a wolf and TM seemed very ordoish. As to what gifted, I think he might be the assassin/hunter thing, as he joked to me in RL that he's going to kill me on Night1.

I've already discussed these things with Aganzir to a little extent - pardon us, but Volo was as lenient as to tell us each others' identities a bit too early and we had happened to plan to meet today anyway - but I'd very much like to hear everybody else's opinions - especially if you'd like traditional-style wolfing or something totally crazy, and if something crazy, then what do you think of my suggestions?

-Lommie

================================================== ==============================
From : Aganzir
To : Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-22 15:42
Title : Howl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder what it is that Sauron attracts only female warriors this time...

Brinn, you can't believe how happy I was when Volo *eventually* told you are a wolf (he's the second greatest liar I've ever met. I asked him about my fellows after my pre-day, and he gave me different names every day after that).
The first time you're wolf here, sally? I'm rather looking forward to this. You're such a mad player.
And I'm happy you are a wolf also, Valier. You would have been among my killing preferences otherwise - I found you scary.
Lommy m'dear... Nice to get to prowl with you at last. Let's hope it lasts more than this one night.
I'm sorry to lose such players as Roa and Greenie. If not for McCaber failing to vote, Roa would probably be here among us now. I think he deserves to be lynched for that.

Okay. My opinion is the same as Lommy's - that we don't have good chances to win. The reasons?
*numbers. There are 6 gifteds, and even if there was a cobbler, it's quite a big number.
*seers. This is not entirely fair, but as it's Volo's own fault I don't mind sharing it (not that it couldn't be guessed anyway). I was discussing with him in MSN and he said "you'd better get rid of the defenders during stage 1." So there are surely at least two of them.
*it's too easy to find known innocents. Usually it would take a defender two nights to find out if their dream is gifted or a wolf, but with the pre days they have one known wolf / innocent by tomorrow. In the worst case, two of us are revealed this early. And for every lynched wolf whose role is revealed, there's one known innocent.
*we will soon face a situation when the known innocents outnumber our chances to kill them. When that happens our battle is lost.

I agree about Nog probably being a gifted. Menel could be also, or am I reading too much?
You could either be a villager in the dark about things, or a wolf pretending to be a villager, but there's nothing to suggest either one.
Anyway, we must remember that there probably are some cobblers alive as well. It'd be evil from Volo to have two of each good gifteds and only one cobbler. We wondered with Lommy if Rikae could be a cobbler - she said she wasn't sure about Lommy's wolfishness. I'm almost certain Shasta wasn't a gifted, so Ka probably is.

I think we can't afford to lynch Lommy on Day 1 if we want to be rid of Nogrod. My guess is that he would be protected the night after lynching Lommy - and by very bad luck it'd even be a ranger who received Lommy's role. But if Nog is a hunter/assassin thing, he's not too dangerous for us after he's killed one (and that is Lommy, if she's not lynched before that). So yup, the best idea would probably be to get him lynched before he has a chance to kill.

We must remember that decisive vote thing. Surely we don't want anyone to be able to have themselves protected? If possible, we should at least try that one of us is the one to cast the decisive vote.

I would love to play a crazy game.
But if we want to win, sacrifices must be made. The best way would probably be that a couple of us ruthlessly lynched the others and tried to make it through by themselves. Anyway, I prefer the idea of losing but playing a totally unforeseen and memorable game.

Labelling all the fellows as innocents? Seriously trying to lynch all of us? Playing gifteds just for fun (that might even reveal some of them from their hiding places)? Lying about the lynched player's role? Lying about receiving the lynched player's role when actually didn't? All voting for the same person? Making a bandwagon just out of the blue when it's already quite probable that someone else will be lynched?

The thing is, the first person to reveal something is generally believed. It'd be nice to see if that's only because the first person to reveal is usually not lying.

At the beginning, I thought I would try not to lie at once. If we aim for winning, I'm willing to continue like that, but in case we're going to make this a total chaos I'm just happy to abandon truth.

Anyway. Whatever our goal is, I'd like to have a strategy. I've never before got to play with a proper strategy, and it'd be very nice to try that. To even find a way to discuss during the days would be great.

What say you?

-Agan

================================================== ==============================
From : Brinniel
To : Aganzir, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-22 19:31
Title : Re: Howl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Urgh, I was really hoping Volo wouldn't reveal to everyone the number of wolves and gifteds left alive. That's another disadvantage towards us...

Since I've realised I'm a really bad guesser (especially after Nogrod's game), I decided to play as an ordinary for my Day and throw out my suspicions since I had a 2/3 chance of being wrong. In the case of Nogrod/Lommy, I was split between the two so I chose to go after Lommy...very sorry about that one, Lommy...

Obviously those of us who did suspect Lommy cannot simply drop it...that would be suspicious in itself. But at the same time I'd rather not get her lynched because Nogrod as a known innocent (and probably gifted) would be plain dangerous. So while we should still suspect Lommy, maybe we should redirect attention to someone else. Lommy may still be suspicious, but there are other innocents who have been suspected too...Nogrod, Menel, Zali come to mind.

While I'd love to get Nogrod out of the way toMorrow or the next Night, once he's dead Lommy certainly will be lynched next. Of course, it'd still be better to for Nogrod to die before Lommy does...

We are at a disadvantage with so many gifteds (especially two seers...eek!), but at least with so many, it should be easier to eliminate them. What I'm worried about with the seers is that they're probably going to dream their living opponent from their Day and that means two different seers might know the identity of two different wolves come Day 2.

When it comes to Night pickings, we will have to be careful with whom we pick. Some ordinaries already lynched a lot of people are going to assume innocent...such as Might, Shasta, Groin, and Gil...these newbies/no shows/suicidals were easy for us to lynch but most people won't see them as suspicious in the long run. So I think whenever Nogrod, Ka, Zali, or Kath gets killed, a wolf will be heavily at risk. Of course, that's a lot of people, so we might just have to sacrifice a wolf early on...

I don't know...we may be at a disadvantage, but I still think we have a fair shot. Only one of us has to survive for us to win, and it's quite possible as long as we can eliminate all the seers. Plus we have a cobbler(s) on our side who can also examine the dead.

I'm totally for playing crazy as long as it means completely confusing everyone for a win. Revealing is a good idea, though it only works for a Day or so. Starting a new bandwagon from nowhere can work (we all know Aganzir can pull that off real well ).

Okay, a thought just came to mind...it could work for toMorrow or afterwards:

When I think about it, if someone really wanted to sacrifice themself, we might actually have a good chance of winning. If a wolf started the bandwagon against another wolf and every single other wolf ganged up too and voted that one wolf, no one would suspect that. Especially if it was a wolf who made the deciding vote to lynch another wolf. Because while it's normal for wolf-on-wolf votes to occur, I don't think the innocents will expect every wolf to do a wolf-on-wolf vote. It'd take them a long time (if ever) for them to figure it out...though it'd only work if only we were the ones responsible for starting the bandwagon and not the innocents. No wolf should try to make their vote look like a safe wolf-on-wolf vote; we should all play boldly. Even better, if an innocent mistakenly tried to save the wolf getting lynched, they could easily be targeted the next Day. But of course, we'd have to have a wolf who wants to sacrifice themself like that...and whoever that is need to be able to put up a pretty good show, but still manage to gain the trust (and not votes) of at least some innocents (a unanimous vote would make this pointless). I don't know...it could just be crazy enough to work. What do you guys think?

We may be at the disadvantage, but I still want a shot at winning. After all, I haven't managed to win a game since Legate's...

-Brinn

================================================== ==============================
From : satansaloser2005
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-22 19:38
Title : *evil raucous laughter*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah, to return from work and find a message aligning me with the likes of you all. Huzzah, an army of she-wolves which shall trample our village like none has been trampled before! *more evil raucous laughter*

Okay, enough of that. I agree with Lommie. I think at least one of us should come forward as fake gifteds.
I actually kind of assumed we might have to do this and so in my analysis of Legate I gave the slightest hint that I myself was a gifted (post 224, where I eliminated four of the five gifteds for Legate's role, and left one unspoken). This was actually a mistake, because I got the counsellor and the guardian mixed up and aligned myself with the latter, a wolf-assisting post. But no matter. Either way I've hopefully managed to give myself the appearance of gifted, which might come in handy later if someone conveniently gets overanalytical with my posts. Whatever butters your toast.
What we choose to do with gifteds is up for further discussion, as we can't all just go off half-cocked claiming seership. Course I'm confident a pack of pros like yourselves can come up with quite a cunning plot by the "morning".


Brinn, your message just popped up. In response, I agree that those of us that were after Lommie should stay in that direction. The rest of us can go after Noggie if necessary. Divide and conquer of sorts hehe.

K I should send this sometime soon as I've got a few assignments due tomorrow that I need to start on before my friend Emily comes over for supper. I'll be around for the rest of my night to reply to any messages and such.

Good job surviving the preliminary battles my hairy cohorts. Let's kick this village's tail!


~~Sally~~

================================================== ==============================
From : satansaloser2005
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-22 19:42
Title : FW: *evil raucous laughter*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, I'm really going in a bit here. But I just finished reading Brinn's message. The part about the wolf sacrifice in a couple days is something to seriously consider, especially if the first day or two doesn't go in our favor. I hate to have to sacrifice one of our own, but if it helps the group and we have a willing lynchee I'm not completely against the idea.

================================================== ==============================
From : Valier
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien
Date : 2008-01-22 21:43
Title : mwahahaha
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, lets turn this village upside!!!! It's a little crappy that we can't talk during the day, so have to make sure we pay attention to what each other is doing, so we know to play along or not to any craziness.

I think I will probably be a person of great interest tomorrow. If everyone looks at the days as they go I was on the first day. Quite a few people have voiced suspicion towards me. I think I should play up the innocent as far as it will take me. But I am willing to sacrifice myself.

Let me try and see how much confusion I can spread in a few days, if at anytime it looks like I'm going down, let's have a code phrase like....every one's going crazy!!

If I say that in the first line of any of my posts, all of you start a bandwagon against me as Brinn suggested. This will at least save a few of you. Since no one would suspect that all the wolves would bandwagon and lynch a fellow. We need to be one of the first if not the first and last to vote for me, sealing my fate.

I think all of us should come up with a bit of a plan of their own to mess with everyone and do it.

I like the idea of lying about roles, deaths etc... I say we lie about everything. LOL everyone of us should make up something or do something weird or suspicious, then we have a greater chance of one of us sneaking by as innocent. let's come up with something for each of us to do the next day, every night. They won't expect all of us to be bold and weird and not caring if we lynch each other.

I do think we should be careful about too many of us arguing, as that does sound a lot like a recent game, where all the wolves went after each other and got lynched.

So my plan for tomorrow is to play the innocent, but if it looks like it's not going to work, then I will say (every one's going crazy!!) in the beggining of my post then all of you start voting for me. I really can see me being the object of lynchdom tomorrow, but let's hope I can sway others away from me.

I rushed this a bit, but I will be home all night and right up until the day starts, so please I would like to hear back from all of you or some of you...lol

================================================== ==============================
From : Brinniel
To : Aganzir, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-22 22:34
Title : Re: mwahahaha
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Valier, I think Lommy will receive more pressure than you, but I'm sure you'll be suspected as well.

But I actually agree with Valier's choice to sacrifice herself. Because while Lommy may seem the easier target, I fear if she becomes our sacrifice we will end up with a unanimous vote. With Valier, suspecting her may be sensible to some innocents while others may disagree.

Yet I don't think we should all pursue it until we know we're ready to...with Valier's keyword, for example. But we shouldn't gang up on her all at once. I think there should be one of us who actively pursues her from the very start, say Aganzir, since she already suspected her and can be quite persuasive. If Lommy's in serious trouble, it might be good for us to find a way to turn the tables and have people bandwagon towards Valier. And if Lommy managed to make the deciding vote (say if there were a tie), that would take a lot of heat off her.

If for some reason Valier doesn't get lynched right away, we can still continue this plan into the next Day (and we'll have another Night to discuss). Surely no one would expect all the wolves to be so persistent on lynching their packmate for multiple Days!

It's extremely late, so I'm heading to bed...

P.S. I'm going to Belgium this weekend and I haven't decided if I should take my computer or not. The first hotel I'm staying at looks secure enough, but I don't know about the hostel. I'd rather not drag around my laptop, but at the same time I wouldn't want to miss out on the fun. If I don't take my laptop, I'd be missing part of Day 1, Night 2, Day 2, and half of Night 3. Ugh, that's a lot. You know what, I'll really try to bring my laptop as long I know it'll be secure...but I still won't be able to participate as much as I'd like. Sorry for the inconvenience...I'll let you know what happens asap.

================================================== ==============================
From : satansaloser2005
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-23 00:04
Title : mwahahahahaha
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S. I'm going to Belgium this weekend and I haven't decided if I should take my computer or not. The first hotel I'm staying at looks secure enough, but I don't know about the hostel. I'd rather not drag around my laptop, but at the same time I wouldn't want to miss out on the fun. If I don't take my laptop, I'd be missing part of Day 1, Night 2, Day 2, and half of Night 3. Ugh, that's a lot. You know what, I'll really try to bring my laptop as long I know it'll be secure...but I still won't be able to participate as much as I'd like. Sorry for the inconvenience...I'll let you know what happens asap.


Okay no problem. Just keep us posted wolfie dear. On that note....I probably won't be able to check my messages until around like midDay-ish. Aka my first day won't be terribly active because I have a few things I need to take care of to wrap up my current class and suchness. So I'll probably have to swing in after that and do all my posting, voting if necessary, etc. Just letting you all know.

================================================== ==============================
From : Thinlómien
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Valier
Date : 2008-01-23 04:18
Title : hello again :)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry to lose such players as Roa and Greenie.Me too. Though (as Greenie is my sister and we live in the same room) I think I and Greenie wouldn't have managed to play it all fairly - the temptation to advise each other during the days would have been a bit too big. The good thing in losing Roa and Greenie is that they weren't very suspected, so we can do nice cases against those who were in the same trials with them.

Anyway, we must remember that there probably are some cobblers alive as well. It'd be evil from Volo to have two of each good gifteds and only one cobbler.I'm afraid we two are making Volo sound like a really bad mod, but I think he slipped to me that there are more than one councillors, when I complained to him about the fact that we have no kill toNight.

very sorry about that one, Lommy... Heh, no problem. :)

Obviously those of us who did suspect Lommy cannot simply drop it...that would be suspicious in itself.Yes. But those who had their trial days before me could. Double bluff. I mean, I don't think anyone's going to seriously assume the wolves are going to stop suspecting their fellows after the trials since there was so much talk about it Day0.

While I'd love to get Nogrod out of the way toMorrow or the next Night, once he's dead Lommy certainly will be lynched next. Of course, it'd still be better to for Nogrod to die before Lommy does...yes, but we can consider me dead already: with this many suspectors and a persistent Nogrod against me, I doubt I can survive for more than one or two Days...

And if we managed to get Noggie lynched toMorrow but I'd get lynched the next Day, well, we could all concentrate most of the discussion to accusing and lynching me instead of "looking for wolves" and with good luck others would follow our lead and even though a wolf would be lynched, the Day would be quite useless for the innocents.

What we choose to do with gifteds is up for further discussion, as we can't all just go off half-cocked claiming seership. Course I'm confident a pack of pros like yourselves can come up with quite a cunning plot by the "morning".Maybe I'm just tired but I'm laughing at the idea that what if we all came out as seers on Day1 and started arguing with each other and hopefully would manage to get the real seers into the debate as well... It'd be more than hilarious. But I think it'd make us lose in the end, so that was not a serious suggestion.

P.S. I'm going to Belgium this weekend and I haven't decided if I should take my computer or not. The first hotel I'm staying at looks secure enough, but I don't know about the hostel. I'd rather not drag around my laptop, but at the same time I wouldn't want to miss out on the fun. If I don't take my laptop, I'd be missing part of Day 1, Night 2, Day 2, and half of Night 3. Ugh, that's a lot. You know what, I'll really try to bring my laptop as long I know it'll be secure...but I still won't be able to participate as much as I'd like. Sorry for the inconvenience...I'll let you know what happens asap.
No problem. At least one of us will be able to slip under the radar then.

I think there will be a lot of pressure on me toMorrow, Nogrod will take care of it. So what do you seriously think if I came out and claimed to be a seer? I would say I was so much suspected that I was afraid I'd get lynched. I could say that Might's post after our trial deadline convinced me of his innocence (because it really was the manifestation of ordoness) and thus I conclude that Noggie is a wolf. I could also say I dreamed of someone this Night and found him/her non-ordo. I think I could go for THE Ka. I could say that she's not an ordo, she herself might believe me if she's gifted like Agan thinks and I could reason coming out with her role by that I considered Agan innocent and Shasta didn't look giftedish, so I guess THE Ka is a wolf and even if not, well, I don't want to die without providing any information.

Now, two questions
1) Are there any serious flaws in this plan?
2) Am I overestimating the suspicion and lynch-mood towards myself?

And lastly, I'm not sure I understand what does this mean:
-Werewolves and the Guardian will be told of their victim's role if the attack is successful.What has the guardian to do with this?

Looking forward to hearing from you (especially comments on my seer-plan)...

-Lommy

================================================== ==============================
From : Brinniel
To : Aganzir, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-23 06:31
Title : Re: hello again :)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think there will be a lot of pressure on me toMorrow, Nogrod will take care of it. So what do you seriously think if I came out and claimed to be a seer? I would say I was so much suspected that I was afraid I'd get lynched. I could say that Might's post after our trial deadline convinced me of his innocence (because it really was the manifestation of ordoness) and thus I conclude that Noggie is a wolf. I could also say I dreamed of someone this Night and found him/her non-ordo. I think I could go for THE Ka. I could say that she's not an ordo, she herself might believe me if she's gifted like Agan thinks and I could reason coming out with her role by that I considered Agan innocent and Shasta didn't look giftedish, so I guess THE Ka is a wolf and even if not, well, I don't want to die without providing any information.

Now, two questions
1) Are there any serious flaws in this plan?
2) Am I overestimating the suspicion and lynch-mood towards myself?
The only thing about coming out as the seer with confidence that Nogrod was a wolf and no other suspects is that once Nogrod was lynched, they probably wouldn't believe you anymore. I think in any case, you shouldn't reveal unless you feel quite confident you will be lynched. Otherwise...for all we know, suspicions could go quite differently than you think.

Another idea is to go with the sacrifice Valier plan...have maybe Aganzir start accusations and suddenly Lommy jumps on board. If people still are focused on lynching Lommy, then Lommy could reveal as a seer exposing Valier. And as mentioned, she could say she didn't dream Nogrod because she assumed Might innocent, therefore the former guilty. People would argue whether to lynch Valier or Nogrod...they'd probably choose Valier since she was the one dreamt of. Once proven a wolf, people would actually believe Lommy, so if they lynched Nogrod next and proved him innocent, they'd think it was an honest mistake. And since we could leave the possibility two protectors, she could keep this up for sometime.

The only problem is that if Lommy reveals, the real seers might reveal too. The risk of that is people might believe them and lynch Lommy...though the advantage everyone could just assume with her guilt, Valier must be innocent (therefore she should be protected).

If we wanted complete chaos, another thing we could do if a real seer reveals in reaction to Lommy is that Valier could reveal as a seer too in retaliation exposing Lommy as a wolf. Then we could have up to four people claiming seership...two would be wolves accurately declaring each other wolves. Who would expect that?

Either way, I think one of us is probably going to have to die either toMorrow or the next Day for the rest of us to survive.

One thing is that I seriously don't think we have to worry about a seer revealing their role unless one of us does first. The gifteds probably think they have the advantage over us, and so unless they think their life is seriously threatened the seer wouldn't want reveal until later in the game. A seer Lommy or Valier revealing would make sense because, like any other seer, they wouldn't do it unless their own life was threatened.

Does that make any sense? I hope so..

No problem. At least one of us will be able to slip under the radar then.
Heh, that's true. Because even if I bring my computer, my participation will be minimal. I have a RL reason for it, which I plan to state in the admin thread later. And since it's not like I'll be participating less by choice, others would be less inclined to vote me for the next two Days because I won't be able to be around enough to defend myself. If someone is unable to show up for a Day due to RL reasons, they are usually not lynched that Day because it's not fair...so hopefully I won't have to worry about getting lynched while I'm gone.

-Werewolves and the Guardian will be told of their victim's role if the attack is successful.What has the guardian to do with this?
Well it looks like the guardian can kill someone at Night regardless whether that person is a wolf or not. So I guess Volo would let the guardian know whether they managed to snag a wolf.

What I'm trying to figure out, is does this mean that the roles of anyone who is killed at Night won't be revealed in narrations? Will only the wolves and guardian(s) have the possibility of knowing? I don't know...but maybe you guys should sneak an answer out of Volo...

-Brinn

================================================== ==============================
From : satansaloser2005
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-23 06:52
Title : Re: hello again
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another idea is to go with the sacrifice Valier plan...have maybe Aganzir start accusations and suddenly Lommy jumps on board. If people still are focused on lynching Lommy, then Lommy could reveal as a seer exposing Valier. And as mentioned, she could say she didn't dream Nogrod because she assumed Might innocent, therefore the former guilty. People would argue whether to lynch Valier or Nogrod...they'd probably choose Valier since she was the one dreamt of. Once proven a wolf, people would actually believe Lommy, so if they lynched Nogrod next and proved him innocent, they'd think it was an honest mistake. And since we could leave the possibility two protectors, she could keep this up for sometime.

The only problem is that if Lommy reveals, the real seers might reveal too. The risk of that is people might believe them and lynch Lommy...though the advantage everyone could just assume with her guilt, Valier must be innocent (therefore she should be protected).

True. Although if we were forced to use this plan and Lommie is killed, the seer may check Val just in case they suspect a double bluff. Then two of us would be gone just like *snaps* that. But that is worst case scenario for that plan, and I doubt our situation will become that.....well, that sucky, to be blunt.

If we wanted complete chaos, another thing we could do if a real seer reveals in reaction to Lommy is that Valier could reveal as a seer too in retaliation exposing Lommy as a wolf. Then we could have up to four people claiming seership...two would be wolves accurately declaring each other wolves. Who would expect that?

Brinn, you're evil. But I like it. That could indeed be great fun, and if nothing else we'll be able to find ourselves a seer or two and odds are we'll be able to do away with them fairly quickly, or so I would hope. Besides, if both Lommie and Val are in danger, they might as well stir up some confusion and make a nice information profit out of the deal. And you're right, as I doubt that most people would think of TWO wolves claiming seer.


Either way, I think one of us is probably going to have to die either toMorrow or the next Day for the rest of us to survive.

Sad, but probably true. That's all I've got on that subject.

One thing is that I seriously don't think we have to worry about a seer revealing their role unless one of us does first. The gifteds probably think they have the advantage over us, and so unless they think their life is seriously threatened the seer wouldn't want reveal until later in the game. A seer Lommy or Valier revealing would make sense because, like any other seer, they wouldn't do it unless their own life was threatened.

Very true. I can see the gifteds now thinking to themselves that they must have the advantage. But even though they have more to their numbers than we do of ours doesn't mean they won't have their share of issues.

By the way, I'm pretty sure Miss Kath is a gifted. I just wanted to make sure I posted that somewhere because otherwise I'll forget. The fact that she was perfectly okay killing Gil says to me that she knew he wouldn't be a gifted, so she'd have a 50/50 chance of catching one of us. Not terribly hard to figure out, but it's almost 7am and I haven't really gone to bed, so forgive me.

No problem. At least one of us will be able to slip under the radar then.
Heh, that's true. Because even if I bring my computer, my participation will be minimal. I have a RL reason for it, which I plan to state in the admin thread later. And since it's not like I'll be participating less by choice, others would be less inclined to vote me for the next two Days because I won't be able to be around enough to defend myself. If someone is unable to show up for a Day due to RL reasons, they are usually not lynched that Day because it's not fair...so hopefully I won't have to worry about getting lynched while I'm gone.

True. Also, if your "slow day" is on a day where there's a lot of stuff going on, it might come in quite handy to have not been around. But that all depends on how the game goes. Either way, I'm sure that your absence can still work to our advantage. Erm, I mean....bah you understand. Hehe

What I'm trying to figure out, is does this mean that the roles of anyone who is killed at Night won't be revealed in narrations? Will only the wolves and guardian(s) have the possibility of knowing? I don't know...but maybe you guys should sneak an answer out of Volo...

I've been wondering that myself. Definitely need to ask Volo about it.

Sorry ladies, I'm just too lazy to bold this morning. Anyway, I need to get back to my paper, seeing how it's due in two hours and all that. Faretheewell until the Morning if I do not speak to you before then!

~~Sally~~

================================================== ==============================
From : Aganzir
To : Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-23 07:23
Title : Good morn'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously those of us who did suspect Lommy cannot simply drop it...that would be suspicious in itself.
Unless we all did that. It can be argued whether all the wolves would do something so obviously wolfish. Anyway, I think we all should go for lynching either Menel, Zali or Nog tomorrow - they shouldn't be too hard lynches. At least that one of them is on everybody's suspect list?

Yes. But those who had their trial days before me could. Double bluff. I mean, I don't think anyone's going to seriously assume the wolves are going to stop suspecting their fellows after the trials since there was so much talk about it Day0.
True. And a good way is to suspect someone else so vocally and so much that people get the impression that you haven't necessarily stopped suspecting your previous suspect, he's just not the one you're most worried about at the moment.

When it comes to Night pickings, we will have to be careful with whom we pick.
The safest would be Naria, McCaber, Rikae and Izzy then. But on the other hand, bluffing might work. Let's say we killed eg. Zali and then said "Nay, the wolves are trying to frame Brinn. It would be too risky for a Brinnwolf to kill her." If there are enough people of like mind, it's more probable that those who are uncertain agree with us. Innocents don't want to get suspected because of disagreeing about something 1/3 of the village agrees.
I've been toying with the idea of rolling dice about the night kills. That would at least leave the village baffled.

The wolf-bandwagon is a nice idea. But that'd need a volunteer who hasn't been suspected that much. If we eg. lynched Lommy like that, there would be someone to say that these people he suspects would be bold enough to lynch their fellow who has already been under heavy suspicion in order to look better. Plus the reasons Brinn stated.
Anyway, I'm fine with being the one to suspect Valier. The only problem is that I'm not going to be around at the beginning of the day (first I'm sleeping and then at school). But I see what the situation looks like when I come and decide then what to do.

Either way I've hopefully managed to give myself the appearance of gifted, which might come in handy later if someone conveniently gets overanalytical with my posts.
Unless that someone is a counsellor who decides to make a case against a giftedish sally.

I like the idea of lying about roles, deaths etc... I say we lie about everything.
We must be careful with lying about roles, though. If we lie about someone of whom a seer has dreamt, that'll give them a sure baddie, not to mention all the villagers that will be after us when we say that their trial fellow has the same role as them.

I do think we should be careful about too many of us arguing, as that does sound a lot like a recent game, where all the wolves went after each other and got lynched.
I agree. But in the last game, there were two teams and the rules weren't as clear as here anyway.

Maybe I'm just tired but I'm laughing at the idea that what if we all came out as seers on Day1 and started arguing with each other and hopefully would manage to get the real seers into the debate as well...

Now that'd be hilarious indeed. Well, if it some day begins to seem we're going to lose, we could try.
But Lommy, I think you should come out as a seer - if not tomorrow, then later. And we should either believe you or clearly disbelieve you, but definitely not waver. But if you're not sure if you're going to do that, could you decide some code phrase you could post before doing that? Then, if some of us were around, we could somehow share our opinions about if that's wise or not.

Now, two questions
1) Are there any serious flaws in this plan?
2) Am I overestimating the suspicion and lynch-mood towards myself?
1) I can't see any.
2) I don't think so. But maybe you shouldn't do that at the beginning of the day, though, but first observe how people in general think about you.
I'm alright if you reveal Ka a non-ordo - even though it will look like you're protecting me when you're killed and your role revealed. Well, double bluff then.

What has the guardian to do with this?
The guardian has an ability to kill as well. He won't be revealed the role of our kill but his own.

Ok, I just noticed Brinn and sally's PMs that had come while I was writing this.

Once proven a wolf, people would actually believe Lommy, so if they lynched Nogrod next and proved him innocent, they'd think it was an honest mistake.
The only problem is the guardian. If Nogrod is one, he'll kill Lommy the next night. I just texted Volo and asked if he's going to reveal in the narrations who is killed by us and who by the guardian in case two kills occur, but he hasn't replied yet.

If we wanted complete chaos, another thing we could do if a real seer reveals in reaction to Lommy is that Valier could reveal as a seer too in retaliation exposing Lommy as a wolf. Then we could have up to four people claiming seership...two would be wolves accurately declaring each other wolves. Who would expect that?
You know what, I love that idea. But we won't be believed if Valier says she dreamt of Lommy, so she could maybe be a more logical seer than Lommy and say she dreamt of Menel?

What I'm trying to figure out, is does this mean that the roles of anyone who is killed at Night won't be revealed in narrations? Will only the wolves and guardian(s) have the possibility of knowing? I don't know...but maybe you guys should sneak an answer out of Volo...
I got that impression from the rules, but I guess we could ask him. If you see him at school today, Lommy?

Sad, but probably true. That's all I've got on that subject.
True. But, after all, you, Brinn and I have probably the best chances of surviving (excluding the possibility of a seer intervention)... And the more readily we're lynching our fellows now, the better our chances later.

The fact that she was perfectly okay killing Gil says to me that she knew he wouldn't be a gifted, so she'd have a 50/50 chance of catching one of us.
That was a good find. It was initially the same reason why I think Nog is a gifted - but I'm not sure if Nog finds gifteds or contribution more worthy.

I was planning to do some reading today in order to try to find gifteds, but as usual, I was too lazy to concentrate properly. However, there's this.
Now, on to my – what should I call you? Opponents? One of you isn't.
Again, I wonder if I'm reading too much. But I could take this as a cobbler hint. That was not actually necessary to say, I think, and besides, were Rikae an ordo, she wouldn't have known if the gifted was a cobbler.
I don't like this kind of reasoning too much, but anyway. Before the game started (with 18 players), I wondered how many there would be of each gifted, and (after Volo's slip) reached the conclusion that two seers and rangers, one hunter and cobbler. My guess was, though, that there would more likely be two cobblers than two hunters.
Maybe it's just better we left Rikae alive for now. Though, I don't think we can ever be sure that she's not leaving false cobbler hints.

I will post more something gifted-related later, but I must say I've never before played in a game where it's this easy to spot possible gifteds.

================================================== ==============================
From : satansaloser2005
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-23 07:42
Title : Re: Good morn'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Either way I've hopefully managed to give myself the appearance of gifted, which might come in handy later if someone conveniently gets overanalytical with my posts.
Unless that someone is a counsellor who decides to make a case against a giftedish sally.

Hehe true. But I'll risk it.

Well, if it some day begins to seem we're going to lose, we could try.
But Lommy, I think you should come out as a seer - if not tomorrow, then later. And we should either believe you or clearly disbelieve you, but definitely not waver. But if you're not sure if you're going to do that, could you decide some code phrase you could post before doing that? Then, if some of us were around, we could somehow share our opinions about if that's wise or not.

*hums James Bond theme music* Wow. I really DO need some sleep apparently. Again, I'm all up for a Lommie seer, provided that we don't mess up and kill the real ones. And I think that Lommie should defend at least one innocent. Doesn't matter who, but I think if Lommie is revealed as a fake seer the people she dreamed of will probably be under suspicion. Not that she shouldn't defend us as well, but she should have at least one innocent that she can vouch for to throw off suspicion. I'm up for suggestions as to who or how to do it. Your call in the end Lommie, but I agree we should have some sort of sign to put our antics into motion if necessary. Especially since my next day or two are really busy and so I probably will be quite on the side of non-brain-activity

Once proven a wolf, people would actually believe Lommy, so if they lynched Nogrod next and proved him innocent, they'd think it was an honest mistake.
The only problem is the guardian. If Nogrod is one, he'll kill Lommy the next night. I just texted Volo and asked if he's going to reveal in the narrations who is killed by us and who by the guardian in case two kills occur, but he hasn't replied yet.

Am I the only one in the game who doesn't know anybody else in RL? Seriously, poor little college students in Nebraska get lonely sometimes....*fake cry*

Again, I wonder if I'm reading too much. But I could take this as a cobbler hint. That was not actually necessary to say, I think, and besides, were Rikae an ordo, she wouldn't have known if the gifted was a cobbler.
I don't like this kind of reasoning too much, but anyway. Before the game started (with 18 players), I wondered how many there would be of each gifted, and (after Volo's slip) reached the conclusion that two seers and rangers, one hunter and cobbler. My guess was, though, that there would more likely be two cobblers than two hunters.
Maybe it's just better we left Rikae alive for now. Though, I don't think we can ever be sure that she's not leaving false cobbler hints.

You know....that DOES bear some looking into. I'll have to check it out as soon as I have a chance. Good eye to see that!


Okay must finish paper. I'm out for now. Leaving for class in about an hour so I'll be available until then and that'll be about it until Day starts, so I won't be able to reply after that. Later ladies!

================================================== ==============================
From : Thinlómien
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Valier
Date : 2008-01-23 11:10
Title : Hmmm...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My head hurts... This is doing no good to me.

I will be online right after the deadline but then it will take ages til I get online next time. With bad luck, I will be able to be online about 8-9pm GMT and then next time a bit before 2pm the next day... so I'm afraid it might mess up some plans.

And now this seer-thing is getting more complicated. I like this idea:
Another idea is to go with the sacrifice Valier plan...have maybe Aganzir start accusations and suddenly Lommy jumps on board. If people still are focused on lynching Lommy, then Lommy could reveal as a seer exposing Valier. And as mentioned, she could say she didn't dream Nogrod because she assumed Might innocent, therefore the former guilty. People would argue whether to lynch Valier or Nogrod...they'd probably choose Valier since she was the one dreamt of. Once proven a wolf, people would actually believe Lommy, so if they lynched Nogrod next and proved him innocent, they'd think it was an honest mistake. And since we could leave the possibility two protectors, she could keep this up for sometime.Even though there is a major problem to this. I couldn't expose Valier because if I were a real seer I would only know that she's not an ordo. And there's nothing that would heavily point at her being a wolf so this is a bit difficult... can any of you think of a way to avoid this problem?

The only problem is that if Lommy reveals, the real seers might reveal too. The risk of that is people might believe them and lynch Lommy...though the advantage everyone could just assume with her guilt, Valier must be innocent (therefore she should be protected). I don't think they will reveal. There is probably two of them, so they can't automatically assume I'm a fake.

If we wanted complete chaos, another thing we could do if a real seer reveals in reaction to Lommy is that Valier could reveal as a seer too in retaliation exposing Lommy as a wolf. Then we could have up to four people claiming seership...two would be wolves accurately declaring each other wolves. Who would expect that?Yes, if they reveal then we should definitely do that.

The only problem is that I'm not going to be around at the beginning of the day (first I'm sleeping and then at school). But I see what the situation looks like when I come and decide then what to do.Brinn, are you around early? If yes, could you start the suspicion against Valier?

As to a code phrase... if I need advice whether to come out as a seer or not, I'll ask if anyone wants to supply me with fresh squirrel heads for my footbags as the ones I have are all rotten. Say "yes" if you think yes and "no" if you think no. I'll try to write a bit in-character in all posts so that won't be coming out of the blue. Sounds ok? (And WARNING, I might ask if someone wants to play footbag with me, but then it's just ic nonsense... )

I think I will phrase vague suspicions about Valier and Ka, in a seerish manner but not in a similar manner and so I can always refer back to either of them if I need it.

I'm alright if you reveal Ka a non-ordo - even though it will look like you're protecting me when you're killed and your role revealed. Well, double bluff then.Aye, possible, but it might also point to Ka being a wolf.

It was initially the same reason why I think Nog is a gifted - but I'm not sure if Nog finds gifteds or contribution more worthy.Yes, but when considering Nogrod, I think one must take into account that TM seemed very very ordoish.

And I think that Lommie should defend at least one innocent. No... because it's going to be very difficult to guess who's an ordo because there's just 3 of them.

-Lommy

P.S. I haven't seen Volo today so I haven't been able to ask him anything. I'll be stalking in MSN and waiting for him to come online and if he doesn't show up I can always call him or send him an SMS.

================================================== ==============================
From : Aganzir
To : Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-23 12:20
Title : Re: Hmmm...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, I'm all up for a Lommie seer, provided that we don't mess up and kill the real ones. And I think that Lommie should defend at least one innocent. Doesn't matter who, but I think if Lommie is revealed as a fake seer the people she dreamed of will probably be under suspicion.
If we can elicit any gifteds by sacrificing Lommy, it's worth it.
Saying someone is ordo would be ok in any other situation, but the time Lommy can keep going as a seer is rather limited, and I think it benefits us more if she can cause some confusion.

Especially since my next day or two are really busy and so I probably will be quite on the side of non-brain-activity
Anyway, if you just manage, try to post enough content so that you won't draw negative attention because of quietness.

Even though there is a major problem to this. I couldn't expose Valier because if I were a real seer I would only know that she's not an ordo. And there's nothing that would heavily point at her being a wolf so this is a bit difficult... can any of you think of a way to avoid this problem?
I'm talking with Lommy at the moment and we reached this solution:
Lommy and Noggie will probably be fighting all day. Lommy can come out as the seer and say she's dreamed of one non-ordo. That's not Nogrod - since Might was so ordoish and she the gifted, she assumes Nog is a wolf without wasting a dream on him. She's not sure if she will survive to the following day so she asks if people want to know the name of the non-ordo, even with the risk of that being a gifted. If they want, she'll give them Valier (who claims to be a seer also, or some other gifted) and says she'll dream of her again the next night. If they don't, she could appeal to the ranger(s) to protect her.
If Lommy survives, she says Valier is a wolf and Valier says she's a seer (or some other gifted). If Valier will also pose as a seer, I think Menel would be the safest dream (but ordo or non-ordo)?
What do you think about this?

Volo said he tries not to show in the narrations who was killed by whom. Also, he's not going to tell the roles of the night kills in public. So if a guardian kills Lommy the next night, it will hopefully remain disputable whether she was a wolf or a seer.

================================================== ==============================
From : Valier
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien
Date : 2008-01-23 12:23
Title : hey
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok I just got up and there are 8 messages...lol Ive read them, but I'm afraid not everything has stuck. I will reread them as the day progresses to make sure I'm following our plans. I do like the fake Seer plan. let's feel it out. If Lommy comes out as a Seer and someone else comes out too, disproving Lommy, I will come out as a Seer myself, saying I dreamt of Lommy and she is not an Ordo. besides that Ummmm I think we will just have to wing it today.
Hope we all confuse the hell out of this village!! If I missed anything important in this post that I should do or be aware of please let me know.

================================================== ==============================
From : satansaloser2005
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-23 12:26
Title : Re: Hmmm...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only problem is that I'm not going to be around at the beginning of the day (first I'm sleeping and then at school). But I see what the situation looks like when I come and decide then what to do.Brinn, are you around early? If yes, could you start the suspicion against Valier?

Are we sure we want to go after Val so quickly? Then again, if we don't establish it now, then coming after her later will be obvious.

As to a code phrase... if I need advice whether to come out as a seer or not, I'll ask if anyone wants to supply me with fresh squirrel heads for my footbags as th ones I have are all rotten. Say "yes" if you think yes and "no" if you think no. I'll try to write a bit in-character in all posts so that won't be coming out of the blue. Sounds ok? (And WARNING, I might ask if someone wants to play footbag with me, but then it's just ic nonsense... )

Silly Lommie. Sounds good to me though, as it'll give my sleep-deprived brain a nudge in the right direction if needed.

And I think that Lommie should defend at least one innocent. No... because it's going to be very difficult to guess who's an ordo because there's just 3 of them.

true. I guess I was just thinking that if you dreamt of them one night you'd see them as innocent, not specific gifted. But you wouldn't be able to see both Val and an innocent on the same night anyway so it's definitely not one of my brightest ideas. Oh well. Was worth a shot.

My innocent list for right now, done in a hurry as I need to scurry off. I just kind of eliminated people I thought to be gifteds and went from there. I think McCaber is innocent and didn't vote because he was torn between killing a wolf and killing a gifted. Isabellkya strikes me as an innocent as well, as does Naria. Don't quote me on that though; I looked at the list of still-alive players and whittled it down, so I probably have two people from the same day or something, but meh. It'll do for now.

Right now I'm up for whatever is in the best interest of the group. I'll be of more actual planning skills tomorrow Night after my class ends because I'll have ample time to think and post. Until then my lovely wolvies,

~~Sally~~

p.s. I won't be around til 4hrs after the Day starts, just an fyi. Then tonight I have church but I'll be sure to post in between the two in case you need me.

[satansaloser2005]

================================================== ==============================
From : Thinlómien
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Valier
Date : 2008-01-23 11:10
Title : Hmmm...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My head hurts... This is doing no good to me.

I will be online right after the deadline but then it will take ages til I get online next time. With bad luck, I will be able to be online about 8-9pm GMT and then next time a bit before 2pm the next day... so I'm afraid it might mess up some plans.

And now this seer-thing is getting more complicated. I like this idea:
Another idea is to go with the sacrifice Valier plan...have maybe Aganzir start accusations and suddenly Lommy jumps on board. If people still are focused on lynching Lommy, then Lommy could reveal as a seer exposing Valier. And as mentioned, she could say she didn't dream Nogrod because she assumed Might innocent, therefore the former guilty. People would argue whether to lynch Valier or Nogrod...they'd probably choose Valier since she was the one dreamt of. Once proven a wolf, people would actually believe Lommy, so if they lynched Nogrod next and proved him innocent, they'd think it was an honest mistake. And since we could leave the possibility two protectors, she could keep this up for sometime.Even though there is a major problem to this. I couldn't expose Valier because if I were a real seer I would only know that she's not an ordo. And there's nothing that would heavily point at her being a wolf so this is a bit difficult... can any of you think of a way to avoid this problem?

The only problem is that if Lommy reveals, the real seers might reveal too. The risk of that is people might believe them and lynch Lommy...though the advantage everyone could just assume with her guilt, Valier must be innocent (therefore she should be protected). I don't think they will reveal. There is probably two of them, so they can't automatically assume I'm a fake.

If we wanted complete chaos, another thing we could do if a real seer reveals in reaction to Lommy is that Valier could reveal as a seer too in retaliation exposing Lommy as a wolf. Then we could have up to four people claiming seership...two would be wolves accurately declaring each other wolves. Who would expect that?Yes, if they reveal then we should definitely do that.

The only problem is that I'm not going to be around at the beginning of the day (first I'm sleeping and then at school). But I see what the situation looks like when I come and decide then what to do.Brinn, are you around early? If yes, could you start the suspicion against Valier?

As to a code phrase... if I need advice whether to come out as a seer or not, I'll ask if anyone wants to supply me with fresh squirrel heads for my footbags as th ones I have are all rotten. Say "yes" if you think yes and "no" if you think no. I'll try to write a bit in-character in all posts so that won't be coming out of the blue. Sounds ok? (And WARNING, I might ask if someone wants to play footbag with me, but then it's just ic nonsense... )

I think I will phrase vague suspicions about Valier and Ka, in a seerish manner but not in a similar manner and so I can always refer back to either of them if I need it.

I'm alright if you reveal Ka a non-ordo - even though it will look like you're protecting me when you're killed and your role revealed. Well, double bluff then.Aye, possible, but it might also point to Ka being a wolf.

It was initially the same reason why I think Nog is a gifted - but I'm not sure if Nog finds gifteds or contribution more worthy.Yes, but when considering Nogrod, I think one must take into account that TM seemed very very ordoish.

And I think that Lommie should defend at least one innocent. No... because it's going to be very difficult to guess who's an ordo because there's just 3 of them.

-Lommy

P.S. I haven't seen Volo today so I haven't been able to ask him anything. I'll be stalking in MSN and waiting for him to come online and if he doesn't show up I can always call him or send him an SMS.

================================================== ==============================
From : Thinlómien
To : Aganzir, satansaloser2005, Valier
Date : 2008-01-23 12:44
Title : In conclusion - my tactics
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will quarrel with Nogrod the whole Day (not looking forward to it ) and if/as it seems everybody's suspecting me I'll come out as the seer and "prove" Nogrod is a wolf and say I know one non-ordo and ask if the others want me to tell the name. If they want, I'll say Valier and the next Day we act according to Aganzir's plan. Sounds ok?

As to other things, I think we shouldn't necessarily make the Valier-wagon now, but rather on Day2 and wait how does my possible seer-stuff work out. If anyone feels we should start the Valier-wagon, what about suggesting it by referring to her own horoscope in the character bio? (Ooh, I love this code language.)

-Lommy

P.S. Brinn's PM inbox is full. I'll send this message to her via facebook private message system, let's hope she checks in there.

================================================== ==============================
From : Brinniel
To : Aganzir, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-23 12:53
Title : Re: Hmmm...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even though there is a major problem to this. I couldn't expose Valier because if I were a real seer I would only know that she's not an ordo. And there's nothing that would heavily point at her being a wolf so this is a bit difficult... can any of you think of a way to avoid this problem?
That's a good point...for some reason I was thinking Volo would simply tell the seer whether the person was innocent or not, but no further. But it could be that he only tells the seer whether they are ordinary or not (which would make things more difficult for the seers). Perhaps you should ask Volo and check which one that it would be...

If it's what you think (the ordinary or not thing), still do everything to try to avoid getting lynched...even reveal if you must (though it'd probably be better if you didn't have to). Then we can continue with our plan on Day 2 if all goes well.

I don't think they will reveal. There is probably two of them, so they can't automatically assume I'm a fake.
Another good point. That could work to our advantage...

Brinn, are you around early? If yes, could you start the suspicion against Valier?
I suppose I could try...the only problem is that on Day 0.6 I clearly stated that I suspected Menel more. Either Menel has to say something innocentish or Valier something suspicious (and I'd rather not have her gather too much suspicion from non-wolves) for me to suspect her without looking wolfish myself .

As to a code phrase... if I need advice whether to come out as a seer or not, I'll ask if anyone wants to supply me with fresh squirrel heads for my footbags as th ones I have are all rotten. Say "yes" if you think yes and "no" if you think no. I'll try to write a bit in-character in all posts so that won't be coming out of the blue. Sounds ok? (And WARNING, I might ask if someone wants to play footbag with me, but then it's just ic nonsense... )
Sounds good. Though if I do this, I might not answer yes or no directly to the question...you might have to actually look for it in my post (trying to be discreet here). I like all these codes, lol.

So here's my list of suggestions for toMorrow:

-Aganzir, try to make a case against Valier if you can...especially if I do one and mine doesn't look like a strong one
-Lommy, do as you said and act seerish particularly towards Valier
-If you need to or we advice it, reveal yourself as a seer, Lommy
-Valier, if (either toMorrow or Day 2) Lommy, reveals herself as the seer and exposes you as possibly evil, reveal yourself as a seer to....but ONLY if you look threatened to be lynched or a second real seer reveals. (Btw, I agree you should "dream" of Menel toNight)
-Aganzir, Sally, and me need to help sway things, but without drawing attention to ourselves. I agree we should try to avoid wavering too much...at least when we're talking about each other. If both Lommy and Valier reveal, we need to disbelieve one of them. It doesn't matter who- we don't have to hop on the same bandwagon...as long as we don't waver too much and strongly pursue one of them. I don't think the innocents would expect us to actually want to lynch a wolf, so we should really should just attack each other (not all at once though) instead of feeling neutral. Bold, is the key word here.

Volo said he tries not to show in the narrations who was killed by whom. Also, he's not going to tell the roles of the night kills in public. So if a guardian kills Lommy the next night, it will hopefully remain disputable whether she was a wolf or a seer.
Good. I was really hoping we'd have at least that.

Am I the only one in the game who doesn't know anybody else in RL? Seriously, poor little college students in Nebraska get lonely sometimes....*fake cry*
Heh, no. Well, at least not yet...
It just sometimes seems that way because of the growing number in Lommy's clan. You see, apparently Nogrod, Volo, Aganzir, and Greenie are evidence of how persuasive Lommy can be. Beware.

-Brinn

(P.S. Just got 3 new PMs as I wrote this. Geez, I'm reaching my quota fast... )

================================================== ==============================
From : Brinniel
To : Aganzir, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-23 13:34
Title : Good luck!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alright everyone, I think we've done everything we can do right now. We have ideas and possible scenarios, and all we can do is wing it from there. I love our crazy plans and I think if we play this well, we have just as a fair shot of winning as the innocents do. And even if we do lose, at least we can manage to mess with their heads.

I had lots of fun plotting toNight. In the last few games I was a wolf, I've had problems with having my mates get killed on the first Days and other communication issues. I'm glad to see that's not the case so far...everyone here is quite vocal and even if one of us dies early on, there'll still be four left.

Anyways, I just wanted to wish everyone good luck for toMorrow. We should be able to totally play these innocents.

And just a reminder: While there is a good chance I may bring my laptop to Belgium with me, I'll be limited to posting during the later hours. This means I probably can only post during the beginning of Night 2 and Day 2...though hopefully I should be back for the beginning and end of Night 3. Most likely, I'll be voting early on toMorrow since I don't know if I'll be back for the deadline (don't know if it'll be for a wolf or innocent...we'll see what happens). I'll post something on the admin thread, once I know whether or not I'm taking my laptop for sure...

Okay, hope to talk to everyone again tomorrow Night!

-Brinn

================================================== ==============================
From : Thinlómien
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Valier
Date : 2008-01-23 13:54
Title :
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good luck to you all as well!

And just to be clear, there will be no coded messages in my first post, so even if I manage to mess all up and make it sound like that, it is not so.

================================================== ==============================
From : Thinlómien
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Valier
Date : 2008-01-24 14:03
Title : !!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm laughing hysterically.

If there's no other guardian, they can't kill me before Day3!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, we might actually win.

================================================== ==============================
From : Valier
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien
Date : 2008-01-24 14:39
Title : ladies
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OMG I missed the whole day!!! Hope everything went ok and I didn't mess up any of our plans. I will have to read the thread to see what's up, can one of you ladies fill me in as to what happened?
Did we carry out any of our plans? did anything work? what all happened?

Also what are our plans for tomorrow and who shall we kill tonight?

Oh yes while I remember I made a list of the gifteds (who I think)

I think Legate was a gifted
McCaber is 100% a gifted. I know Naria and she is not gifted. she is 110% an Ordo
I think Ka could be
Nog is of course a gifted
Kath I am sure is the gifted
I think Groin may have been gifted
and I think Isabel is a Seer

This may change as I get more info and read the thread

================================================== ==============================
From : Valier
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien
Date : 2008-01-24 14:46
Title : !!!!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OMG ladies!!! I was the random choice of villager to get the pm telling me that Nogrod was indeed the Guardian.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS!!!! since we were fortunate enough to get this info and not an ordo or gifted. Lommy you can use this to help you tomorrow no? I've started reading and Lommy if you said you received the pm revealing the lynch, no one could dispute you. If they do we know they are lying since I was the one who got it.....does this make sense?


Sorry I got excited when I read it!!! Volo thinks we are going to win!! LOL I am sure we can use this for wicked purposes. what say all of you?

Ok I'm going back to read....I'll be around

================================================== ==============================
From : Valier
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien
Date : 2008-01-24 15:10
Title : whoah
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok I got ahead of myself....didn't read everything. I guess my knowing that Nog was indeed a Guardian doesn't help us, since we know he was because of Rikae dying. I'm not sure if we can use this.

I was thinking....do you think I should come out tommorow as the Ranger? LOL just burn menel's butt!!

I've got so many things running through my mind at the moment I think I'll sit and chew on it for a bit. Hope to hear from you all. I am sure we can win this!!

Oh and I say that we should kill either Isabel, McCaber or Kath. I think kath and Is are the seers and I am SURE MCaber is a gifted, what? I'm not sure.

P.S Lommy I say your codes in your one post...I laughed!! Footbagging and watching the stars?LOL

Not sure if anyone else answered direct like or added codes but this will be hilarious to tell when the game is over!!!

LOL!!! GO FEMME FATALES!!!!!
I am sure they are gifted. I think


================================================== ==============================
From : satansaloser2005
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, Valier
Date : 2008-01-24 19:11
Title : Re: !!!!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OMG ladies!!! I was the random choice of villager to get the pm telling me that Nogrod was indeed the Guardian.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS!!!! since we were fortunate enough to get this info and not an ordo or gifted. Lommy you can use this to help you tomorrow no? I've started reading and Lommy if you said you received the pm revealing the lynch, no one could dispute you. If they do we know they are lying since I was the one who got it.....does this make sense?


Sorry I got excited when I read it!!! Volo thinks we are going to win!! LOL I am sure we can use this for wicked purposes. what say all of you?

Ok I'm going back to read....I'll be around



*squeals in delight* Okay I havent' actually gotten to read the thread yet but I phoned one of my friends on the way back to campus (ah I love lurkers) and she told me the tremendous news. So we says to ourselves, "If one of us wolfiekinses gets the Noggie pm, wouldn't that be hysterical?" And WOW!!!!!!! This is like, molten awesome! Okay I need to go read the thread and see what transpired. I'm sure there's much kudos due to you all for your lovely skillehz after I'd left for the day. Okay I really need to go read the thread now. Expect another PM soon! and again....WOW! This is beyond coolness!


P.S. Lommie's inbox is full just as an FYI in case you haven't tried to send her something already.

================================================== ==============================
From : satansaloser2005
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, Valier
Date : 2008-01-24 19:21
Title : Re: whoah
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok I got ahead of myself....didn't read everything. I guess my knowing that Nog was indeed a Guardian doesn't help us, since we know he was because of Rikae dying. I'm not sure if we can use this.

I was thinking....do you think I should come out tommorow as the Ranger? LOL just burn menel's butt!!

I've got so many things running through my mind at the moment I think I'll sit and chew on it for a bit. Hope to hear from you all. I am sure we can win this!!

Oh and I say that we should kill either Isabel, McCaber or Kath. I think kath and Is are the seers and I am SURE MCaber is a gifted, what? I'm not sure.

P.S Lommy I say your codes in your one post...I laughed!! Footbagging and watching the stars?LOL

Not sure if anyone else answered direct like or added codes but this will be hilarious to tell when the game is over!!!

LOL!!! GO FEMME FATALES!!!!!
I am sure they are gifted. I think


*giggles, snorts, and eventually laughs herself into a tizzy* Okay, first of all, I forgot about Rikae being Noggie's guardian pick, so that indeed kind of negates Val's PM. But still, that means there's hope of the rest of us maybe getting access to a seer's role or something of the sort. By the way, what the heck is up with Rikae being the pick anyway? (yeah I obviously still haven't read the thread. I'm a Foat, what can I say?) NOt that I'm complaining, because I expected to come back from work this evening and find Lommie dead, one way or another. But no! We all live! Huzzah!



Who to pick tonight by the way? I'll have to compile my own little who's-who list in a bit, but I'm so in awe of the turnout of today's events I'm just not in the mind to concentrate on tonight's activities right at this point. *is stoked*


================================================== ==============================
From : Brinniel
To : Aganzir, satansaloser2005, Valier
Date : 2008-01-24 19:32
Title : Omg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was so shocked when Noggie actually hunted Rikae. I can see why he did it...to leave one known wolf to lynch and take down another. But lucky for us, Rikae was not a wolf.

It wouldn't be exactly fair if there were two guardians since it's a pretty powerful position. So I hopeNoggie was the only one.

Are you planning to choose to be protected Day 3, Lommy? If you were, you could really mess with people's heads. No one would know when your lying or telling the truth. Everyone will know you're guilty, but they wouldn't be able to lynch you. Even better, if you could somehow make the deciding vote, then you'd be protected again (though that may be difficult to do).

Another idea:

If you are worried about a guardian, you could protect yourself for toNight. Most people will expect you to protect yourself during the Day, so they might not even try to lynch you.

I don't really have much more advice for Lommy, except really try to mess with these people in whatever way you can. Mix up the truth and the lies so that they don't know what to think.

Valier- Whatever you do I would suggest NOT revealing as a gifted, but to remain ordinary looking. While you may look suspicious, a lot of people aren't too sure Menel is telling the truth...so he might eventually end up getting lynched. If Menel was lynched and revealed and people believed it, you will head down the same road Lommy is about to. Otherwise, even if Menel died, some people may think the wolf is Legate. (I would actually suggest believing Menel and calling out Legate as a dead wolf...that would look more innocentish)

As for the rest of us, I think I'm the only one who did gather any real suspicion yesterDay (wow). Hopefully I can stay under-the-radar since I won't be able to get online much toMorrow anyway (I worry people might look at me more with Noggie's innocence...hopefully not). Anyways since we're already sort of suspicious, I still think the best way for at least one of us to survive is to viciously attack each other. It'll be wild and fun...we might get one of us killed, but surely at least one (or two) of us would survive looking rather innocent. This is an outrageous game...so we can only play outrageously. So I say we do what they won't expect and actually try to lynch each other. And if some innocent gets killed in the middle of it...all the better. No one will listen to Lommy, but there's still four of us unknown who can manipulate the others so that they will trust at least a couple of us...

Who to kill?

One choice would be Kath. Because she didn't really stand out toDay...did anyone suspect her (I can't remember)? Plus, I think she is probably a gifted. The only problem is killing her could incriminate Sally.

Another choice is Naria. If I recall, she didn't even really show up toDay, plus her death won't incriminate any living wolf...an easy kill.

Izzy is a possibility...we still don't know if Rikae turned out to be a gifted or not. But if Izzy is, and Rikae's ordinary role is revealed, Izzy probably will know she'll most likely be the next kill and reveal.

Izzy's my first choice, and Naria would be my second.

I have to go to bed now, and I don't know if I'll be back before the Day...I'll try to get online in the morning. Btw, I might not be able to PM Night 3 until the last few hours. I think I only get 15 min of internet in Bruges...only long enough to read the Day's events.

If I'm not back, good luck toMorrow!

(And be very evil Lommy. )

================================================== ==============================
From : Aganzir
To : Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-25 08:01
Title : Hey ho
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That was just wonderful. The day worked out much better than I had even dared to hope.

Keep in mind that the village doesn't know we have a chance to win tomorrow! They probably assume Rikae was a wolf (given the narration & that Nog's instincts are usually quite good) and we can encourage them to think believe so, though it will probably be appropriate to remind them that if she wasn't a wolf and they lynch an innocent, they'll win.

We have two chances to win now (in case a nasty ranger doesn't stop us tonight):
*we try to get an innocent lynched. It's risky because of the possible seer dreams. But if even one innocent votes another innocent, we can happily join the bandwagon and they don't have a chance.
*Lommy will choose to be protected tomorrow and we try to get her lynched. No lynch occurs and we win the next night if there's no ranger save. It's risky because of the possibility of another guardian who'd be after her tonight.

Everybody probably expects she'll be protected tomorrow so even if she decided to play it safe and choose to be protected tonight, I'm not sure if they'll risk lynching her. But if she isn't protected tonight and there's still a guardian, our bandwagoning possibilities weaken at once.

I think Legate was a gifted
McCaber is 100% a gifted. I know Naria and she is not gifted. she is 110% an Ordo
I think Ka could be
Nog is of course a gifted
Kath I am sure is the gifted
I think Groin may have been gifted
and I think Isabel is a Seer
Well, Legate looked a bit desperate when you lynched him... But I wonder why Menel would be lying? I agree about Ka - could she be the other ranger? If she was a seer, would she be considering me innocentish just to fool us? I don't really know about her.
I think Rikae was a cobbler, and therefore Isabell couldn't be a seer. But of course I'm not sure about Rikae. She just struck me as one.

OMG ladies!!! I was the random choice of villager to get the pm telling me that Nogrod was indeed the Guardian.
That's just wonderful. Only a pity that Nog happened to get the only role which can be quite easily recognised even without the pm.
Anyway, now it's more than obvious that Lommy is a wolf, so no one minds if she wants to tease the villagers a little. She could say she received Nog's role and he was a werewolf. Hopefully would distract at least a couple of villagers enough to make them wonder why Rikae died too.

By the way, what the heck is up with Rikae being the pick anyway?
I'm not sure, but to me it looks like Rikae sacrificed herself for us. She must have realised Lommy is a wolf and thus she had Nog suspect her.
Or then I'm interpreting everything in a way that backs up my Rikae-was-a-cobbler theory...

Valier- Whatever you do I would suggest NOT revealing as a gifted, but to remain ordinary looking.
Lommy said she dreamed of her and found her a non-ordo, and that might get the seer after her tonight... Just because they can't know if Lommy's bluffing or double-bluffing.
But unless the seer dreamt of Valier already on night 1, they can't know anything for sure. I'd suggest trying to look like an ordo but coming out as a gifted if there's someone who's all of a sudden suspicious of you.

Anyways since we're already sort of suspicious, I still think the best way for at least one of us to survive is to viciously attack each other. It'll be wild and fun...we might get one of us killed, but surely at least one (or two) of us would survive looking rather innocent. This is an outrageous game...so we can only play outrageously. So I say we do what they won't expect and actually try to lynch each other. And if some innocent gets killed in the middle of it...all the better.
It's not the best situation now to try to get any of us lynched. Tomorrow may well be our only chance of winning because after that the number of known innocents will really start growing. So we should be making cases against suspicious players, such as McCaber, Zali, Menel...
And if possible, we should hold our votes. This will probably be a little difficult at least to Brinn, but if possible, try? And if there's even one innocent voting another innocent, vote the same innocent.

Hey, what about Valier coming aggressively out as a seer in her first post tomorrow and thereby judging Menel a liar?

**

We must choose a kill who won't be protected, and that's the most important thing right now.

Ka. She's creepy. I get the impression she's trusting me but at the same time knows my role and is chuckling by herself while posting... Her distrust in Menel is a good thing. Could she be a cobbler? Why am I seeing cobblers everywhere? I see I was traumatized by tp's game...
If you guys want to kill her, I have nothing against it.

Caber. I think we might have chances to get him lynched. He's been rather suspected anyway.

Menel. He's not believed by everyone. I wouldn't be surprised to find him protected tonight... Unless the other ranger doesn't trust him. I'm just trying to figure out what killing him would mean to Valier. We must bear in mind that Lommy said she's not an ordo, and that could point either at her being Lommy's fellow or a randomly chosen person... I think, though, that it'd be better if we didn't draw too much attention to their trial day team now.

Kath. I'd actually prefer killing her at the moment. She lists Lommy, Valier, Cab and Ka as wolves - everybody except Ka have been somewhat suspected. We could stir up some discussion tomorrow why she was killed, and the kill wouldn't leave too many tracks back to us.

Naria. I trust Val's judgement of her more than my own. I'm alright with killing her, though I think it would be better if we managed to kill a gifted tonight.

Azaelia. Would be a good kill no one expects. But on the other hand, I guess it'd be possible to lynch her. She suggested voting for Nog but voted Cab instead. She could be seen as a possible threat for Valier, but if we would subtly frame Cab, she might be a good choice. What do you think, especially Brinn, whom killing her probably concerns the most?

Isabell. I guess Rikae's role is told only to Nog, so it doesn't really matter? Anyway, if the villagers assume Rikae was a wolf, the ranger might think we'll be after Izzie tonight and protect her. I don't think she's too big a threat for me at the moment, I guess I'm considered pretty innocent in general.

**

So, some kind of a strategy would be useful for tomorrow as well. I think we need a way to inform one another whom we consider a nice lynchee... Anything permanent can't be decided now since we don't know if there are gifteds who want to have a say on tomorrow's happenings. So what about the following: the first person we mention in a post that has a Sting icon (the same as in the title of my PM) in its title is the one we'd like to get lynched? Or would the villagers realise what we are doing?

**

I'll email Lommy the PMs that were sent while her inbox was full.

================================================== ==============================
From : Valier
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien
Date : 2008-01-25 10:39
Title : hi
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think we should kill Kath maybe tonight...who of us is going to send our kill to Volo? I think it needs to be in an hour before the deadline. I can send it...but who r we killing?

================================================== ==============================
From : Brinniel
To : Aganzir, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-25 10:51
Title : Re: Hey ho
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, now it's more than obvious that Lommy is a wolf, so no one minds if she wants to tease the villagers a little. She could say she received Nog's role and he was a werewolf. Hopefully would distract at least a couple of villagers enough to make them wonder why Rikae died too.

Haha, I love that idea.

Maybe Lommy should also reveal Valier is a wolf. Since everyone knows she's evil, I doubt they'd pay any attention. Do you think they'd assume Lommy would by lying...or is this too risky?

Valier, I agree with Aganzir, don't come forward as a gifted unless you seriously suspect someone has dreamt of you.

Btw, I think Lommy, you should protect yourself toNight. It's a risk, but chances are that people will assume you chose the Day and won't bother to try to lynch you.

It's not the best situation now to try to get any of us lynched.
Alright, I agree. It's probably not best we do it yet since we have the upperhand now anyway. But if two or more of us (aside from Lommy), then we should attack each other (meaning no wavering). If one of us absolutely has to get lynched, it'd be smart to make another wolf look responsible to contributing to that lynch.


And if possible, we should hold our votes. This will probably be a little difficult at least to Brinn, but if possible, try?
Well, I have free internet access at the B&B I'm at now in Brussels, but once I get to Bruges I'll only have 15min of free internet at the hostel (at least that's what I read...and I don't want to pay). Of course, it's possible I could snag free wireless from elsewhere, but even then I don't know if I'll have time before the deadline. I was planning to vote early tomorrow morning (my timezone's GMT +1), but would you rather I not? I could not vote then and see if I can get back online in time, and if not just have a no-vote. I'm not sure about that though because the odds of me making it back are slim...and choosing not to vote seems a bit unsportly-like. I don't know...what do you guys think?

As for the kill:

While I agree Rikae seemed cobblerish, there's still a chance we could be wrong. If Izzy is a seer, she could become quite dangerous. The only worry about picking her is that she may be protected.

I'd be happy to kill Kath, but I worry how Sally will look afterwards since a lot of people assume Gil was innocent...

Naria would be the safest choice...she may not be a gifted, but she might make McCaber more lynchable.

So what about the following: the first person we mention in a post that has a Sting icon (the same as in the title of my PM) in its title is the one we'd like to get lynched? Or would the villagers realise what we are doing?

But isn't the Sting icon the default icon? I'd probably forget to take it off my other posts...then you guys would think there's a code when there's really not. How about if the code was with no icon? That might be more subtle than a different icon. Should Lommy join in on the code? I feel like since everyone knows she's a wolf, they'll be watching her every move to see if she gives us any hints. (On that note...maybe Lommy should somehow look like she giving her mates hints, but to innocent...I don't know how that'd work, but it could throw them off.)

I'm not going to have time to reply to any more PMs before the deadline...so this'll be my last one for toNight. Whoever you choose to kill, pick well. And good luck!

-Brinn

================================================== ==============================
From : Valier
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien
Date : 2008-01-25 11:02
Title : vote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just got a call from my boss...I have to work earlier than I thought. I won't be able to send in our vote.

I am hoping one of you will be on before the deadline to send it.

I say kill either Kath or Naria. Whoever is around then, kill whoever you think would be good. there is 3 hours left before deadline, whoever sends in the vote, pm us and let us all know.

Good luck today ladies!!

================================================== ==============================
From : Thinlómien
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Valier
Date : 2008-01-25 11:33
Title : Re: vote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just got a call from my boss...I have to work earlier than I thought. I won't be able to send in our vote.

I am hoping one of you will be on before the deadline to send it.

I say kill either Kath or Naria. Whoever is around then, kill whoever you think would be good. there is 3 hours left before deadline, whoever sends in the vote, pm us and let us all know.

Good luck today ladies!!I will be around and I guess Agan will be too, at least.

I'm currently working with a longer PM, you should get it soon.

================================================== ==============================
From : Thinlómien
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Valier
Date : 2008-01-25 11:58
Title : Buenas Noches, mis amigas
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm so sorry it took this long for me to gather myself and actually write you something. Anyway, I'm here now.

If Volo says no one will know which protection I choose, I will take Night just to be sure, if he says people will know it, I'll say Day. I think someone of you should say it aloud that there's no use lynching me since I'm immortal. It needs to be stated early.

Anyway, as soon as one single innocent votes another, we can jump on the wagon (provided that none of us has voted) and win the game.

And I suggest that if a Defender comes forward, some of you comes out as a Defender as well and challenges the claim or something like that. The most important thing is that we shouldn't let the Defenders get a grasp on the village. Don't "trust" revealing gifteds too easily, if at all. Gifted McCaber should be challenged or discredited immediately and made an easy lynch. Agreed?

As for me, don't trust a thing I say, except my vote. I will try to cause as much chaos as I can. If I for some odd reason, want to say something serious to you, I will use use the pint icon in the post and the phrase that is true will include the word "kebab". Ok?

Anyway, now it's more than obvious that Lommy is a wolf, so no one minds if she wants to tease the villagers a little. She could say she received Nog's role and he was a werewolf. Hopefully would distract at least a couple of villagers enough to make them wonder why Rikae died too.That's an excellent plan. I'll do that.

I may have to come out with Valier's name as well... I have to think about this now, I'll come up with a plan and act accordingly.

This is quite unrelated, but I don't think all of you shouldn't believe Menel. He can't be let to become a known innocent.

(And be very evil Lommy. )I promise I will.

I'm not sure about that though because the odds of me making it back are slim...and choosing not to vote seems a bit unsportly-like. I don't know...what do you guys think?You must vote. It would be horrible if an innocent voted another and all we wolves jumped on it and then you wouldn't come, we'd be in serious problems... I think you should vote and try to convince some innocent agree with you. Actually, I think someone else too should campaign for lynching the one Brinn votes, because it's crucial we get one innocent to vote the same way Brinn does.

~*~

Then onto kill choices...

The most important thing is to pick someone who's not protected.
The second most important thing is to pick a gifted.

I agree about Ka - could she be the other ranger? She screams ranger to me. She practically came out by posting that way. The other chance is that she's a cobbler throwing ranger hints. I'm not sure which one is more probable. I don't know... I wouldn't maybe kill her but I'm not sure. I don't know if it will help at all, but wouldn't it be hilarious if I asked her toMorrow "Ka, are you a ranger or a cobbler? I can't quite decide." No one's going to mark my words too much anyway.

I think killing Kath might be a good idea - she's very smart (her posting yesterDay freaked me out) and probably a gifted - BUT I'm afraid she's protected. Thus I'd rather pick someone else.

Naria won't be protected, but if she's relatively probably an ordo, we should consider before killing her.

Zali has managed to shake off most of the suspicion against her, but probably not enough to be protected by the seer. Also, she might very well be a gifted. I think killing her might be the smartest move.

Izzie then... I can't see why you all think she might be a seer. I'd rather consider Rikae cobbler and her ordo, but...

Menel must be left alive both because he might be protected and because he will cause confusion toMorrow.

McCaber won't be protected and is probably gifted, but he's also a good lynch... so maybe not him.

In short, I think killing Zali is the best option, but others aren't that bad either.


-Lommy

================================================== ==============================
From : Aganzir
To : Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-25 12:17
Title : I'm here
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there's another guardian, he'll know after this night that Lommy was protected (if you choose that). And then there's a risk he reveals himself and says "Let's lynch Lommy."
The best I can come up with, was this situation to occur, is to remind everybody that the wolves have a chance to win today if there's an innocent lynch or no lynch at all, given that we can't be sure about Rikae's guilt - therefore there are chances that it's a gaurdian who's speaking there (gaur means a wolf in Sindarin, I believe ).

Maybe Lommy should also reveal Valier is a wolf. Since everyone knows she's evil, I doubt they'd pay any attention. Do you think they'd assume Lommy would by lying...or is this too risky?
I'm afraid it would look like a wolf-on-wolf case. But on the other hand, I'm always seeing wolf-on-wolves everywhere.

Btw, I think Lommy, you should protect yourself toNight. It's a risk, but chances are that people will assume you chose the Day and won't bother to try to lynch you.
I agree.

I was planning to vote early tomorrow morning (my timezone's GMT +1), but would you rather I not? I could not vote then and see if I can get back online in time, and if not just have a no-vote.
Vote, but vote a suspicious innocent.

I'd be happy to kill Kath, but I worry how Sally will look afterwards since a lot of people assume Gil was innocent...
What do you think, sally?

Naria would be the safest choice...she may not be a gifted, but she might make McCaber more lynchable.
Now that I think it that doesn't sound bad either. Killing Naria will point at Cab... But in case he's a gifted he'll probably tell that in case he's in danger. Then all we have to do is say "Oh, now I know why Naria was killed! You couldn't be sure if it was her or Roa who was the real gifted!" and then drive the poor lad crazy by not believing him.

But isn't the Sting icon the default icon?
At least I have "No icon" as a default. But of course we could choose another one? Or should there just be a verbal code? Like "I think Lommy is a wolf or I'll eat my hat / copy of Lotr / whatever?" Both Rikae and Ka have promised to eat something so it wouldn't look that odd if we did also... And that code would be just awfully funny in case they were cobblers.

Should Lommy join in on the code?
Or a different code for her? The first person she talks about in a post that ends with the question if there's anyone who would like to play footbag with her?

As for me, don't trust a thing I say, except my vote. I will try to cause as much chaos as I can. If I for some odd reason, want to say something serious to you, I will use use the pint icon in the post and the phrase that is true will include the word "kebab". Ok?
Lommy you make me laugh. You're so sweet.

Are the codes decided last night still valid? So if Valier says everyone's going crazy we start a bandwagon against her and if any of us wants to start the bandwagon against her she just refers to her own horoscope?
Are there any other things we should have a chance to speak about?

================================================== ==============================
From : satansaloser2005
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-25 12:29
Title : Re: Buenas Noches, mis amigas
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, now it's more than obvious that Lommy is a wolf, so no one minds if she wants to tease the villagers a little. She could say she received Nog's role and he was a werewolf. Hopefully would distract at least a couple of villagers enough to make them wonder why Rikae died too.That's an excellent plan. I'll do that.

Sounds like an excellent plan. And....aren't there lovers in this game? If so, it's possible (obviously false, but possible) that Noggie was a wolf and that Rikae was his lover. Thus he could have made all the speech toward "choosing her" in order to make sure that when he died and she was taken with him, it supported his claims throughout the day. Obviously not the case, but I think it could be brought up if necessary.

Speaking of lovers, if we can find them today and lynch one of them, we win at the end of the Day. Probably won't have that kind of luck though.


Rikae cobbler seems indeed very possible. Either way, it saved us a death in the pack and so I'm happy she was Noggie's pick.




I'm all for picking Zali. I'd really like to not kill Kath, not only because it would make me look bad, but because I think she trusts me, at least a smidge. At the same time though, she could be a seer who is playing it safe until she's figured out for certain that I'm wolfie.

Okay I need to send this real quick. My inbox is full, so I'm cleaning it out as soon as I send this message. I have to leave in about 15 minutes or less, so you ladies sending in the kill can pick whoever you choose and I should be pretty happy with it.

================================================== ==============================
From : satansaloser2005
To : Aganzir, Brinniel, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-25 12:37
Title : Re: I'm here
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Btw, I think Lommy, you should protect yourself toNight. It's a risk, but chances are that people will assume you chose the Day and won't bother to try to lynch you.
I agree.
Ditto. Good plan indeed.

I'd be happy to kill Kath, but I worry how Sally will look afterwards since a lot of people assume Gil was innocent...
What do you think, sally?
Whichever pick is best for the pack is fine with me. I prefer not to kill Kath, but I think she may be seer-ish, so she might just have to go and I'll have to deal with it.


But isn't the Sting icon the default icon?
At least I have "No icon" as a default. But of course we could choose another one? Or should there just be a verbal code? Like "I think Lommy is a wolf or I'll eat my hat / copy of Lotr / whatever?" Both Rikae and Ka have promised to eat something so it wouldn't look that odd if we did also... And that code would be just awfully funny in case they were cobblers.

Should Lommy join in on the code?
Or a different code for her? The first person she talks about in a post that ends with the question if there's anyone who would like to play footbag with her?

As for me, don't trust a thing I say, except my vote. I will try to cause as much chaos as I can. If I for some odd reason, want to say something serious to you, I will use use the pint icon in the post and the phrase that is true will include the word "kebab". Ok?
Lommy you make me laugh. You're so sweet.


Haha. Very snazzy. Okay I like it indeed, so if one of us needs to communicate during the day, we can do it like that. Sorry kind of rushed right now, but wanted to reply to Agan's PM real quick before I left. I'll check my messages before I leave but if there's any response at all it'll basically be "yeah-huh, nuh-uh" etc. And remember my lovely wolfiekinses, it's possible for us to win toDay and do so with no wolf casualties. If at all possible, let's strive for that.

P.S. If anyone thinks my Noggie-Rikae lover plot is valid, we can definitely use the fact that Val got the PM about him to our advantage. Okay, I'm out! Back around four hours into the Day.

~~Sally~~


================================================== ==============================
From : Thinlómien
To : satansaloser2005
Date : 2008-01-25 12:38
Title : Lovers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like an excellent plan. And....aren't there lovers in this game? If so, it's possible (obviously false, but possible) that Noggie was a wolf and that Rikae was his lover. Thus he could have made all the speech toward "choosing her" in order to make sure that when he died and she was taken with him, it supported his claims throughout the day. Obviously not the case, but I think it could be brought up if necessary.

Speaking of lovers, if we can find them today and lynch one of them, we win at the end of the Day. Probably won't have that kind of luck though.
No, I think the whole lovers-thing was a joke from Volo's part... but if you thought there are lovers, someone else might think that way too. So what if I came out, said Nogrod was a wolf AND speculate he and Rikae were possibly lovers? That might confuse some innocents!

================================================== ==============================
From : Aganzir
To : Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-25 12:40
Title : Re: Buenas Noches, mis amigas
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And....aren't there lovers in this game? If so, it's possible (obviously false, but possible) that Noggie was a wolf and that Rikae was his lover. Thus he could have made all the speech toward "choosing her" in order to make sure that when he died and she was taken with him, it supported his claims throughout the day. Obviously not the case, but I think it could be brought up if necessary.
Sally I love you!
I think saying that there are lovers was a joke from Volo's part - that's his sense of humour.
In his last game there were secret lovers, one of whom being a secret cobbler... Lommy knows more about that.
The problem is that Rikae was so vocally for lynching Nog, which she wouldn't have done if it had meant her death also.
But that was just a wonderful idea anyway. I don't know if Lommy should suggest that when she comes with Nog's role? If any of us said it, it would probably draw some negative attention to us.

P.S. If anyone thinks my Noggie-Rikae lover plot is valid, we can definitely use the fact that Val got the PM about him to our advantage.
Just don't forget that it was officially Lommy who got it.


================================================== ==============================
From : satansaloser2005
To : Thinlómien
Date : 2008-01-25 12:41
Title : Re: Lovers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like an excellent plan. And....aren't there lovers in this game? If so, it's possible (obviously false, but possible) that Noggie was a wolf and that Rikae was his lover. Thus he could have made all the speech toward "choosing her" in order to make sure that when he died and she was taken with him, it supported his claims throughout the day. Obviously not the case, but I think it could be brought up if necessary.

Speaking of lovers, if we can find them today and lynch one of them, we win at the end of the Day. Probably won't have that kind of luck though.
No, I think the whole lovers-thing was a joke from Volo's part... but if you thought there are lovers, someone else might think that way too. So what if I came out, said Nogrod was a wolf AND speculate he and Rikae were possibly lovers? That might confuse some innocents!

Hmmmm....*scampers off to check the rules*

-Oh, and there will be a single Lover at most.

Dang. I was really hoping we could use that. Oh well, if you think you're going down bigtime it's worth a shot.

================================================== ==============================
From : Aganzir
To : Brinniel, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien, Valier
Date : 2008-01-25 12:55
Title : Kill
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I sent Naria's name to Volo.

Since you three from the other side of the pond weren't around and Lommy was suspiciously quiet, I called her and we decided Naria would be the best choice. She's probably not a gifted, but now we can hopefully get Cab into a bad situation...

================================================== ==============================
From : Aganzir
To : satansaloser2005, Thinlómien
Date : 2008-01-25 13:54
Title : Some final words
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good luck, darlings. Let's hope we all will be rejoined in the evening, with a table lain and a fresh and sweet dinner prepared for us.

Lommy, are you protected tonight or tomorrow?

Brinn and Val have their inboxes full... Lommy, is there any way you could deliver this message to them? Or at least tell them when you're protected?

================================================== ==============================
From : Thinlómien
To : Aganzir, satansaloser2005
Date : 2008-01-25 13:56
Title : Re: Some final words
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good luck, darlings. Let's hope we all will be rejoined in the evening, with a table lain and a fresh and sweet dinner prepared for us.

Lommy, are you protected tonight or tomorrow?

Brinn and Val have their inboxes full... Lommy, is there any way you could deliver this message to them? Or at least tell them when you're protected?
Tonight. But let's do everything as if I was protected toMorrow. I can try to contact them. In Val's case it might be difficult and I'm not sure if Brinn has time to check her faceboook or e-mail. But I'll try.

================================================== ==============================
From : Volo
To : Aganzir, satansaloser2005, Thinlómien
Date : 2008-01-25 14:00
Title : Re: Tappo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You killed Naria, who was just a quiet Ordo and simply Innocent.

EDIT: Brinn and Valier have their boxes full.

[satansaloser2005]

So we can gloat? I say YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!

:D :rolleyes:

I never thought I'd enjoy wolfing some day, but I did, at least from time to time. Mostly thanks to my awesome fellows, we had a great team spirit and our nightly discussions were hilarious. :D

But I still prefer being all nice & innocent, suits me better as I'm afraid I'm very bad at being dishonest.


Ah, but you're good at being evil too, as we can plainly see! I'm all for gloating as well, but the only ones here are our fellows. Pity really. Well, I am in need of some sustenance (aka I'm starving!) so I'll be back in about an hour or so. Well done my lupine ladies!

[McCaber]

Nicely done ladies! I was indeed the cobbler. My investigations revealed that Roa was a werewolf (I felt bad after hearing that) and that Legate was indeed innocent.

I see I was just suspicious enough to be lynched at the right time. I like it when a plan comes together like that.

This was my first werewolf game here, but I've played it many a time with friends and read through a good amount of the games here. Thanks for making it a good one.

[Aganzir]

Oh gosh, I was so sure you were a seer or some other nasty thing. :o And I actually felt almost bad lynching you! That was just wonderfully played.

[Thinlómien]

McCaber, you were awesome. :D

Sally, thank you so much for saving and posting those! :) However, it seems you've posted one PM of mine twice and marked the change of Night incorrectly... but those are minor details...

I will write a longer ramble about my feelings/thoughts/misfortunes later, so watch out... ;)

[McCaber]

Thanks, ladies. Just goes to show that even a newb knows what's up from time to time.

Eat that, village! Boo-yah! Who's the cobbler? I'm the cobbler!

Ok, celebration over.

[Aganzir]

Thanks to Volo for the game. The idea was interesting but too unbalanced, I think. It took only one mis-lynch and suddenly a game that looked impossible to win became impossible to lose.
But the narrations were funny (thanks also to Leggie).

I'm sorry about my trial day, I wasn't lying low deliberately or anything, I was just so unbelievably tired that I didn't quite have the energy to post anything.

Thanks for my wolfy team. Despite the early losses we managed quite well, and, as Lommy put it, we had a great team spirit and hilarious discussions. :D
By the way, I've been a wolf in half of the games I've played now (and a cobbler once). Quite nice.

I'll post more when I know all the roles & something else occurs to me.

[satansaloser2005]

Thanks, ladies. Just goes to show that even a newb knows what's up from time to time.

Eat that, village! Boo-yah! Who's the cobbler? I'm the cobbler!

Ok, celebration over.

Really? hmmmm I took you for an ordo. In that case, EXTREMELY nicely done my friend. And thanks! ;)



I made a whoopsie? No problem I shall fix. Soon as I figure out what was wrong....lol

[Isabellkya]

I assume that everyone is able to post since the game is over. Don't have much to say.

Great concept on the game Volo, and thanks for hosting!! :D

Congrats wolves on a victory!! .... yet the overabundance of gloating leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

[satansaloser2005]

Congrats wolves on a victory!! .... yet the overabundance of gloating leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

Sorry Izzy. I think we're so excited because at the game's onset we were sure we were toast. :p

[A Little Green]

Toast to (us) wolves! *tosses THE little green hat* :D Great game chaps!

By the way, I've been a wolf in half of the games I've played now Well that's honourable enough, but how about being a wolf in all the games I've played in? :p (two, that is)

Thanks for the game. Enjoyed it.

[Rikae]

Well, l may have been a seer who not only got a hunter lynched, but got herself killed in the process, but at least I can take comfort in one thing:
I knew who almost all of the wolves were.
On day 0.7, I told Mac my predictions from the trial days, and they were:

Valier
McCaber (oops)
Aganzir
Lommy
Sally
Azaelia (also oops)
Greenie

Unfortunately, I dreamt of Lommy on Night 1, because I thought when Volo said he would tell the seer whether the person was innocent, he meant "ordo or gifted" as innocent, and I figured Lommy had to be either gifted or a wolf. When I got the answer, I found that Volo meant "ordo" by "innocent", so my dream was pretty much wasted when Volo told me "Lommy is not an ordo." He also told me it was interesting that I chose her, though, so when Lommy "revealed" as the seer, I suddenly thought "that's why he said it was interesting! I dreamt of the other seer!" - and therefore, I tried to act in such a way as to protect her if she was the seer, while still getting her killed as a wolf.
Unfortunately, Nogrod didn't cooperate - actually, his threats toward the end of day 1 had me almost totally convinced he was the wolf.

Oh well - good game everyone, and my apologies to the village for blundering the way I did... :rolleyes:

[Volo]

The idea was interesting but too unbalanced, I think. It took only one mis-lynch and suddenly a game that looked impossible to win became impossible to lose.

If anybody wants to discuss the subject with me, please do!

Personally I don't think the game was unbalanced, on the contrary, I really liked the way it worked out. Of course, it may look different through the eyes of the mod, but I think that there were no obvious flaws here unlike in the first game I modded (WW32).

Although I didn't forsee it, it now seems that this was an extremely demanding game. I feel bad for having "scared off" three players in midgame.

My original idea was to turn a game completely wrong-way round and include a great big lot of Wolves. Soon I understood that it would need many Gifteds to balance it up. They had to be modified of course, not to cause nasty situations such as a Seer finding out everybody's roles in just a few Nights or the Rangers protecting the Seer in turns. After a few test-games with a die and cards I decided on 3 Defenders, 2 Protectors, 1 Guardian and 1 Cousellor.
That was why the real game didn't work so well. Even though one can't take everything into account with just a die and cards (such as "Seer reveals", "Wolf also reveals" and "Wolf is believed") I got it somehow balanced.
Well the problem was that I assumed that everybody would participate at least moderately. And so even allowing players to choose on which day they would play their trial Day. That didn't solve everything - like you know.
Another factor I didn't forsee was that the Innocents (yes, I regard an "Innocent" the same as an "Ordo") would be more prone to get lynched for participating less and vigorously fighting for their lives even if it meant lynching a possible Gifted.
And then again, the roles turned out like that... (I'll reveal them after I've written a narration) In most cases it became a fight between Wolves and Specials.
As a mod and a Volo, things like Day1 seemed impossible. My personal experience including posing a Seer as a Wolf and being a Seer when Mac posed a Wolf. (If you remember a game where a Wolf revealed before a Gifted, please tell me.) At the beginning of stage2 I was very happy for having the game balanced. Both the Wolves and the goodies felt like they were in a tight spot and overpowered by the others. It could have ended either way, and even though Day1 had a lot of effect, it could still went either way after that. But not after what did happen! :eek:

In conclusion, I think that this kind of game would work out really well if all players had the time to participate and used it. It might be unreal, as this was a demanding game, especially as it was the first try. But that is exactly what I like in experimental games - there are no ready models what-so-ever, it can go any way and one just has to make crazy theories at times.

The concept of WW32 didn't work out well and although we did come to good ideas about improving it, I lost interest in it. It may be that I'll try to mod a new version of it, but not soon.
This game however looked better. Please, help me improve it and give your thoughts! Even though I defend the rules now, I'm not too blind to deny faults.

----------~~

I'll post more thoughts on this actual game later, after I've read the thread again. It may take some time.


EDIT: Xd with Lily and Rikae

[Valier]

Mahahahaha!!! I can't believe it!! We actually won? SWEET!! great game had by everyone!! I was sure I was going to be lynched today.

Great concept Volo, I loved the trial days, they were fun.
I would like to say sorry to Nogrod.....just cause. he'll never trust me again!!

I just had to add that we as a team did a lot of chatting and scheming, I would get home to a full Inbox, every night. The funniest things were the codes we had....We actually used a few, I laughed so hard when I saw them in my fellow Wolfie's' posts.

[Volo]

Unfortunately, I dreamt of Lommy on Night 1, because I thought when Volo said he would tell the seer whether the person was innocent, he meant "ordo or gifted" as innocent, and I figured Lommy had to be either gifted or a wolf. When I got the answer, I found that Volo meant "ordo" by "innocent", so my dream was pretty much wasted when Volo told me "Lommy is not an ordo." He also told me it was interesting that I chose her, though, so when Lommy "revealed" as the seer, I suddenly thought "that's why he said it was interesting! I dreamt of the other seer!" - and therefore, I tried to act in such a way as to protect her if she was the seer, while still getting her killed as a wolf.
Yeah, sorry for that. I did however refer in the rules that Innocents are Ordos.

I thought it to be interesting, because it felt much more logical to me that the Defender would dream of the player who played on the same trial Day as he/she did.
This might actually be one of my blunders, because I hadn't thought of this before stage1 was at its end.

Now that I think of it, another blunder was - you don't even know this yet - letting the Guardian take somebody with him/her if he/she died during stage1. I told Nogrod that he could kill somebody if he got killed that Day, since it seemed fair. I think I forgot to mention that could kill only either Lommy or Might. Anyway, later I thought that it wasn't fair, because it was too different from what the other Specials could do.


EDIT: Xd with Valier.

Ok, now on the narration.

[Nogrod]

Oh well - good game everyone, and my apologies to the village for blundering the way I did... Talking about blundering... :o

But I'd blame the stars as well. :D

There was not a single piece of luck coming our way. I mean had it been a normal game after the trials we might have stood a chance to fight back even with the zero-odds we had (five wolves around) but all the rest of the modifications of the rules sealed it (the non-revealment of the roles, the immunity-factor...).

Well not all as there was that luck-factor that went even further any wolf could have hoped for in her wildest dreams.

I was probably 15 seconds late in the end of Day1 because I wrote a short sentence for anyone coming after me in the last minute - and mainly to pressure The Ka who had defended Rikae to make the right choice (and she missed the deadline!). I had checked the thread and there was nothing but when I submitted my vote McCaber had beaten me...

You couldn't have had a better timing! *bows* Had it been the other way around the game would have taken a totally new direction.

But yes it was a lot of fun indeed! So sad it ended this quickly.

In practise I was lynched on Day1. So this was my third Day1 lynch in a row... If I miss one game someday who are you going to lynch or suspect then? :rolleyes:

[Volo]

There was not a single piece of luck coming our way. I mean had it been a normal game after the trials we might have stood a chance to fight back even with the zero-odds we had (five wolves around) but all the rest of the modifications of the rules sealed it (the non-revealment of the roles, the immunity-factor...).
Well... I don't know how much weight this argument holds but the non-revealment of roles could have back-fired on the Wolves - like they themselves mentioned in their PMs - if they started to mess around with them. However I do agree that the only role that could really prove anything on its own was the Guardian, and even then only by dying.

Immunity-factor. Well, it could have worked for a Defender or anybody just as well. Aganzir, said that it was just brought unnecessory complications - by now I might agree. It makes the game only more unbalanced, because only a trusted person will be let to take the immortality, in this case Lommy was trusted by her fellow Wolves.

[Nogrod]

Volo: I really loved the idea of trial Days but the practise of them was very bad on too many Days. I do agree with you that it was the uneven amount of participation that made them so terrible at times. I hope that at least some people see now after this experience that not taking part is an unsporty way to play. It kind of was highlighted in the trials but the same mechanics get even more troublesome in a normal Day where there just are so many people of whom you can't say anything about that people regularly tend to let them through... which is kind of wise looking at the odds but bad gamewise. :confused: :D

[Kath]

Well it was a shame we were so utterly defeated but I have to say that the wolves were incredibly lucky there were so many of them as you were the worst bunch of secret-keepers ever! :p The only one I never pegged was Aganzir who is a tricksy fiend.

I'm gutted though that I didn't reveal toDay. I dreamt of Sally last Night and could have bagged us another wolf and possibly another Day. See, this is why I should not be a Seer! Three games of disaster.

[Nogrod]

Volo: The non-revealment of the roles makes the game practically unwinnable (a slight exaggeration) for the villagers as the wolves are the only ones who know where the game stands.

But that notwithstanding I'd rather say that your game was kind of "winner takes it all" -type of game where whichever side gained the upper hand in the trials was heading for a triumph... at least if that winning side after the trials were the wolves.

So I'd say the rules generally favoured the wolves (with no roles revealed publicly no one could believe anything anyone said or if someone contested someone else's revealment of a dead person's role - and even if people then chose between contesting claims no one would know whether they had it right or not) but with this particular game there was this luck as well that just played for the one side...

[Thinlómien]

If it comforts you at all, I don't think I played particularly well. :D On Day0 I think I was doing good enough job on trying to look innocent, but managed to attract more suspicion than I usually do as an innocent. As to my fellow-wolf spotting that Day, well, it was disastrous... Brinniel and Roa were the only ones of my fellows I really suspected and Aganzir and Greenie had me convinced of their innocnce. I could also have sworn after Day0 that Nogrod and Legate are wolves. In fact, I think I spotted something that seemed very wolvish to me in Nogrod's posts on Day0 but didn't bring it up then because I thought I would rather not add suspicion against a probable fellow. So all in all, not very well done...

Being pitted against Nogrod on the trial Day was a nightmare... :p It's not a nice place for any wolf and especially not for a wolf who lived and played under the very same roof and on the very same computer with him the whole trial Day. And then TM had to appear and mess it all up by glowing with innocnce.

As for Day1... Well, I was rather desperate and I was aiming to cause confusion, maybe ahave a few poor souls believe me and most importantly get Nogrod lynched and die in the attempt. I was not hoping to have anyone really convinced - nor survive the Day. So the outcome was just hilarious. As for getting the immortality... I was trying to vote so that I might get it but it was 90% pure luck from my part still.

The part which I'm proud of is making rather crazy plans at Night and having a lot of fun and being totally silly on Day2 - for example, that lovers fabrication with the symbolics and the desperate attempt of "hunted by your love" (haunted, of course, is what most lyrics say). By the way, I hope no one minded me calling people names and dissing them... I figured the ones I "insulted" had enough sense of humour not to take it seriously...

And I maybe have to add that you could have lynched me had you tried, for I wanted to play it safe in case there was another guardian and decided to be protected for the Night. ;)

[Volo]

I do agree with you that it was the uneven amount of participation that made them so terrible at times.Quite a heavy game. If there is thing as lesser stressing time of year, then it would work better played then. Same timezones and available weekdays are quite limiting. I think that if a game like this would ever be played again, it should be during the summer holidays or something. As long as the calendar is free at that day.

The non-revealment of the roles makes the game practically unwinnable (a slight exaggeration) for the villagers as the wolves are the only ones who know where the game stands. Hmm... True. Do you think there is some way of revealing the roles that would work?

But that notwithstanding I'd rather say that your game was kind of "winner takes it all" -type of game where whichever side gained the upper hand in the trials was heading for a triumph... at least if that winning side after the trials were the wolves.Yes, probably yes. Hmm... In a way it was my intention to stress stage1, but games with many Gifteds do tend to end early.

So I'd say the rules generally favoured the wolves (with no roles revealed publicly no one could believe anything anyone said or if someone contested someone else's revealment of a dead person's role - and even if people then chose between contesting claims no one would know whether they had it right or not) but with this particular game there was this luck as well that just played for the one side...Ah, indeed! The Wolves know which way they want the daily discussion to go, but the Goodies don't and there will be a situation when different Goodies trust different things, which is when the number of the Wolves plays a critical role. To overcome the Wolves the Goodies have to decide on a common goal, which on its own is hard enough and deciding it is like flipping a coin. If they guess wrong, they lose. If they guess right, the next Day dawns upon them with a similar situation. The more options are around, the more of a toss between them it is.

Yes, now I get the point. Stage2 must be altered to something (?) to make the game longer.


EDIT: Xd with Lommy.

Oh, and I think that I'll deal with the narration tomorrow.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Wow! Good game, all.

I really regret that I wound up having less time than I'd hoped to, and thus didn't participate as much as I would have liked.

Well played, Brinniel, in particular. I'd been going along thinking you were a gifted by default...Sorry, Groin. :(

I know I didn't play particularly well. I was just trying to get back into the swing of things--I hadn't played in over a year, and had evidently forgotten much of what I had learned. Better luck next time, right? *sigh*

This was probably the most confusing game I've ever played--it was really hard not even knowing where we stood. But it was fun, and I FINALLY got my WW fix. :)

[THE Ka]

"Ka, are you a ranger or a cobbler? I can't quite decide." No one's going to mark my words too much anyway.


If you'd just answer my little lousy riddles, I would have told you... :o
You can't be too serious with these roles, this game is supposed to be as fun as it is mind twisting. Besides, it is fun in a way playing with suspicion, which all of you, seasoned or not did very well.
No use in saying anything now, Volo is going to write us another lovely story and I'd rather see it there than here.

*Takes a lavish bow and toasts to all*

This was an amazing game, I particularly enjoyed everyone's company. It was lovely to play of course again with Nogrod and Lommy and others, but is was also a pleasure playing with Aganzir and others. You were brilliant darling, and I admire the head on your shoulders. :)

Oh and about the chuckling while posting thing, yes I did that often. Only because this game as a whole was amazingly amusing and never a real dull moment. Especially Volo's write ups and the whole mini martyr-drama that we all had. Really, I kept my ideas up in the air and probably should have done more work here, and in RL, but eh, what's the fun in that?

I think it is neat that there is somewhat of an advantage for the wolves, it makes reasoning a bit more, I dunno, less obvious and more fuzzy?

Though, like Azaelia has said, it was nice to get back in the swing of things. I haven't played in nearly a year either, and with that I had to leave early anyways.

Once again, it was awesome playing with all of you, thanks for helping with the best of freetime drainers and distractions! It helped my sanity. :D

Sorry for being too bubbly as of now, my friend's 18th birthday along with other things was today, and we took her out for a lovely time with much sugar, some gambling, coffee and other things of the drinking variety. So, I'm a little happy right now, but still glad to have had a chance to play with everyone!
I actually learned some more things this WW time around.

Hope to play with all of you soon again.


~ THE greatful and happily jittery Ka

[Groin Redbeard]

Over all I think the game went well. Volo, you and Legate did a great job at modding.:)

I can't believe that you were a wolf Thinlomien!:eek: I trusted you, you betrayed my trust! *runs away sobbing*


Well played, Brinniel, in particular. I'd been going along thinking you were a gifted by default...Sorry, Groin.

That's alright Azaelia, I should have listened to you about Thinlomien. We'll get her next time!:p

[Aganzir]

Brinniel and Roa were the only ones of my fellows I really suspected and Aganzir and Greenie had me convinced of their innocnce. I could also have sworn after Day0 that Nogrod and Legate are wolves.
I was being honest about my suspicions on day 0. Well, I was thinking we had no chances and was a little irritated anyway when the game started, so I decided that if I can spot a fellow wolf, I can as well try to lynch them.
And I wasn't trying to please Roa by considering her innocent - I really thought so. But Greenie totally fooled me.

I do agree with you that it was the uneven amount of participation that made them so terrible at times.
I agree - and that made also "easy lynches" even easier than usual. If everyone had voted the one they found most suspicious rather than the non-participator, the game would probably have ended otherwise.
I'm sorry about lynching Shasta but I was playing as I would have as an innocent. Neither Ka nor Shasta had been suspicious at all, and I admit I prefer playing with a person who posts more.

Well, l may have been a seer who not only got a hunter lynched, but got herself killed in the process, but at least I can take comfort in one thing:
I knew who almost all of the wolves were.
The village had indeed no luck then. And we wouldn't probably have killed you very early anyway. :D

This was an amazing game, I particularly enjoyed everyone's company. It was lovely to play of course again with Nogrod and Lommy and others, but is was also a pleasure playing with Aganzir and others. You were brilliant darling, and I admire the head on your shoulders.
Thank you, it was a pleasure to play with you as well. Hope you're not planning to have another year's break before playing again. :D

I can't believe that you were a wolf Thinlomien! I trusted you, you betrayed my trust! *runs away sobbing*
That's the way she is, there's no trusting her... Better for your heart to stay away from her and abandon every thought of marriage... ;)

[Brinniel]

Oh wow....I got back from Bruges an hour ago and am a bit sad I had to miss this wonderful ending. But still, we won! I just finished reading the thread and I admit I was laughing all the way through Day 2. :D

I only apologise for not be around as much as I usually am. This game started later than I thought it would when I first signed up; I wasn't planning to play while studying abroad, but at the same time this game looked too fun to back out.

Day 0 I had no idea how I should play...so I just went with the first thoughts that came to me. It worked since it made me look both innocent and a little suspicious...and boy was I happy to discover two of the people who found me slightly suspicious were actually wolves. Day 0.6 I played as innocently as possible. I decided to say outright which players looked most suspicious from the previous Days...making my opinions clear would make me less suspicious and besides, I've been very wrong in spotting werewolves in the past. That worked as well because even though I ended up suspecting a fellow teammate, I was able to use that suspicion to get Nogrod lynched on Day1. On Day 2, my participation was extremely limited since I was traveling to somewhere without internet. But I did manage to fit in one our wolf "codes" in a post in an attempt to get the bandwagon against McCaber going. I'm glad it worked...and it makes it so much sweeter that McCaber was a cobbler so willing to sacrifice himself. :D

So you think we could find out who all the Defenders dreamt of (still surprised there were actually three), the Protecters protected, and so on? I'm really interested to know..

As for the game, I enjoyed it a lot. I think the main reason it was unbalanced was because during the trial Days there was often a person who participated significantly less than others. In my eyes, those people seemed so obviously innocent...yet they were lynched just because they didn't say anything. Plus, if the other two players didn't vote for that one person it'd just be a tie. While I liked the one of each, perhaps the trial Days should've had more people (maybe 5) so that the people who chose not to participate as much or at all wouldn't have had such an effect on the rest of the game. Also, while it was a lot of fun for us wolves to have the roles unknown during Stage 2, I can see it making the game unbalanced...so perhaps anyone lynched after Stage 1 should have their roles revealed in narrations.

A big thanks to my fellow wolves who I had such a fun time plotting with. All of us were equally involved and my inbox filled up multiple times. I actually wish it could've lasted longer I enjoyed it so much.

I was never planning to WW while studying abroad and now that I have had a sample of it, I know it is way too stressful to do both. So while it's going to be hard since I'm way addicted, I'm not going to WW again until May. But I'm glad I got to end with such a great game. I was hoping for one big win (something I was unable to do for six months) before taking my three month break...and I got it. Not to mention...this is the first game I have not died in. A big thanks to Volo for letting me take part in this game so that'd I'd have the opportunity to go off with a bang. :)

Okay, I'm really tired so any more thoughts I have about the game will just have to come later...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, folks, I must say this was an interesting game, in any case, though unfortunately short for me (Menel, I am waiting for you to apologize). Congratulations to all the Wolves & McCobbler who did really well for a first-timer.

As to the game balance, the output of the trials, whatever the case, is really, really much random. It can bring many information for the further game - but only for the further game, and that may mean already seven wolves in the village. I think the number is still somewhat unbalanced, as there is a real chance of having seven wolves in the village and thus, them winning right on Day 1. Just look at how many of them there were this time. I would at least, for example, use the Cobbler in one group instead of a Wolf, so, there will be one Ordo-Gifted-Cobbler group and there will be no Ordo-Cobbler-Wolf group (though, as it showed even this time, the cobbler does not necessarily have to mean bonus for the wolves, but the point is in making the number of wolves lesser).

Another thing I would like to emphasise is the participation. Nogrod already mentioned that here, but let me say it again: especially in a game like this, it is vital that everyone posts more at least during the trials, because otherwise, it ends with total randomness.

And one word for all future Mods - the remark about Rikae's dream pointed that out to me. Every Mod should double- (if not even quadruple or more) check whether all his rules are clear, factual, precise and unambiguous. The rules are supposed to be more sort of a legal document, and the terms should be exact.

As to WW32, I didn't see it such problematic, if you ask me, I think it was less unbalanced than this one. The only problem there was, as far as I remember, only the role of the Shade, who was by logic on the side of the Innocents (he would choose that by logic). But then he was just one more Gifted for the Village - otherwise, no problem.

[Nogrod]

Another thing I would like to emphasise is the participation. Nogrod already mentioned that here, but let me say it again: especially in a game like this, it is vital that everyone posts more at least during the trials, because otherwise, it ends with total randomness.I promise to keep my mouth shut about the matter after this but just two little things...

I wouldn't say only that it's vital "especially in a game like this" but that this game kind of highlighted the impossibility of saying anything about those who don't post anything of any "substance". With this game there was a different dynamic than normally. It suited the wolves just fine to lynch those who were quiet as that ensured their lives as it was a threesome. Normally the wolves love the silent people because it leaves the random-choices to the villagers and/or provides them with unrisky fodder if that is needed.

Innocents in a normal game are very reluctant to choose someone who just threw in a line or two - not the least if there were many of them; how to differentiate between them? So they tend to lynch those who actually play the game...


Maybe we should play a game one day where we'd restrict everything one is allowed to say into two or three oneliners / Day without any serious coming forwards? I'd like to see how random and dull that game could be... :rolleyes:

Maybe I'm just too old or conscientious but I can't see the difference between the net and the real-life in the sense that if you promise to play with your friends you're kind of expected to come along and play then RL or in the net. Not only with the rules but with the spirit as well. Just think of a deal made with your mates to play a card-game one evening which requires three players. What would the other two think if the third never appeared or came in but just threw the cards on the table randomly without trying to play? Why should it be different online?

Just to add. No I don't mean everyone should play the way I do, or Legate, or Lommy, or Roa, or Spm or... There are different styles and different personalities but people should participate if they promise to. I mean look at McCaber, Menel, Kath, Izzy, Sally etc. in this game! They played nicely and well even if they didn't flood the game but they took part in the game and made a difference to it! So it's not a quantitative question.

[Volo]

Okeydokey. Let's do some revealing.


Roles:

Day0.1: Valier (W), Legate (I), Menel (P)
Day0.2: Roa (W), Naria (I), McCaber (C)
Day0.3: Aganzir (W), Shasta (I), Ka (P)
Day0.4: Lommy (W), Might (I), Noggie (G)
Day0.5: Sally (W), Gil-Galad (I), Kath (D)
Day0.6: Brinn (W), Zali (I), Groin (D)
Day0.7: Lily (W), Izzie (I), Rikae (D)


Action:

Day0.0

”Votes”:

Might -> Noggie 1
Rikae -> Azaelia 1
Lily -> Groin 1
Legate -> Noggie 2
Roa -> Menel 1
Lommy -> Roa 1
Noggie -> Legate
Aganzir -> Zali 1


Day0.1

Votes:

Menel -> Legate 1
Valier -> Legate 2
(Legate)

Lynched: Legate


Day0.2

Votes:

Roa -> Naria 1
Naria -> Roa 1
(McCaber)

Lynched: Roa


Day0.3

Votes:

Aganzir -> Shasta 1
Ka -> Shasta 2
(Shasta)

Lynched: Shasta


Day0.4

Votes:

Might -> Might 1
Noggie -> Might 2
Lommy -> Might 3

Lynched: Might

Noggie -> Hunt: Lommy


Day0.5

Votes:

Sally -> Gil 1
Kath -> Gil 2
(Gil)

Lynched: Gil


Day0.6

Votes:

Brinn -> Groin 1
Groin -> Brinn 1
Zali -> Groin 2

Lynched: Groin


Day0.7

Votes:

Rikae -> Lily 1
Lily -> Rikae 1
Izzie -> Lily 2

Lynched: Lily


Night1

McCaber -> Dream: Roa

Rikae -> Dream: Lommy
Kath -> Dream: Noggie

Noggie -> Hunt: Lommy


Day1

Votes:

Brinn -> Nogrod 1
Menel -> Valier 1
Azaelia -> McCaber 1
Kath -> Valier 2
Sally -> McCaber 2
Rikae -> Nogrod 2
Lommy -> Nogrod 3
Izzie -> Aganzir 1
Aganzir -> McCaber 3
McCaber -> Nogrod 4
Nogrod -> McCaber 4

Lynched: Nogrod

Lynch-seer: Valier

Nogrod -> Hunt: Rikae

Immortality: Lommy (Night2)


Night2

Ka -> Protect: Aganzir

McCaber -> Dream: Legate

Kath -> Dream: sally

Wolfkill: Naria


Day2

Votes:

Menel -> Valier 1
Brinn -> McCaber 1
Valier -> McCaber 2
Ka -> McCaber 3
Aganzir -> McCaber 4
Zali -> McCaber 5
Lommy -> McCaber 6
McCaber -> McCaber 7
Kath -> Valier 2
Izzie -> Zali 1
Sally -> Valier 3

Lynched: McCaber

Immortality: Valier

[Volo]

Oh, and I added a bit of narration here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=544953&postcount=444).

[THE Ka]

Thank you, it was a pleasure to play with you as well. Hope you're not planning to have another year's break before playing again.

Well, you earned it of course!
And to think I was seriously going to vote for you on trial day, *tisk tisk*, but I figured it was more use to get to know you more and have some fun before voting again. :)

I hope so too... Playing this time made me realize how much I missed it and all of you, and how much I should play more often so I can keep my know-how up to date. I seriously thought someone was going to shoot me for all the questions I asked. :rolleyes:

I should have time available in the summer, besides maybe work getting in the way, but I'll be working nights so everything works out for WW. I prefer night shifts to the day, it is much more interesting.
As for now though, I'm in the collective group of otherwise 'poor college kid/application nightmare/job hunt frenzy because automobile needs a transmission', so unfortunately I won't have time for another WW immediately, but hopefully not until another year!

Maybe we should play a game one day where we'd restrict everything one is allowed to say into two or three oneliners / Day without any serious coming forwards? I'd like to see how random and dull that game could be...

Nogrod, you do realize how many of us you are going to kill if you do that? :p

Though the oneliner idea sounds fun, especially since wolves like to use codes in their posts, that might be extended to idea of making it a game of riddles (very 'Hobbit' idea, but could work, maybe).
That I'd have to join just for the fun of riddle spinning.


Hope to play with all of you soon, or in less than a year, this time...

~ Ka

[Volo]

Maybe we should play a game one day where we'd restrict everything one is allowed to say into two or three oneliners / Day without any serious coming forwards? I'd like to see how random and dull that game could be...Random is still ok, but dull is pretty umm... dull. At least we should be allowed to chat around about any random non-ww topic. That would be rather interesting, fusing WW, a Books-discussion, some Quiz and another Mirth-game. :D

Pity Hookbill's Spooks didn't work out. :(

[Nogrod]

Just to make one thing clear (if someone has misunderstood me). I really did enjoy this game! It was the most fun! And interesting. And I'm sad that we lost not because we lost but because the game ended so soon.

And the wolves played it so smoothly and wisely that I must just admire them in their cunningness. We ordos made our best but I blundered heavily - well aided a bit by Rikae...and the alignment of the stars. :)

I just think that if the trials would have been more balanced eg. every trial would have been actually played threesome the game would have been even more enjoyable. And it would have lasted longer. :D

[Roa_Aoife]

Lynched on a coin toss!!!!

Leave it to me to get lynched on the day when it's me, the cobbler, and an ordo.:rolleyes:

This game was really interesting, and I'm glad I participated. I was just gearing up, though, when I was taken out of the game *glares at McCaber*. I have to say, my fellow wolves were fantastic. Lommy had me laughing so hard I cried, and for the rest of you, you avoided looking connected so well that I couldn't find it, and I knew who you were!

For the record, I wasn't lying when I listed my reasons for being agreeable. If I take part in any new games, expect much of the same, regardless of my role, until I find my feet (or teeth) again.

When I realized how many seers were still alive, I thought my team was done for, but it all turned around so quickly. I don't think the game was that unbalanced, but the lack of revealed roles during stage two certainly worked in the wolves favor. I didn't think the wolves could pull off a kill, though, with so many protectors running around.

McCaber was a great cobbler. I knew that if a wolf was killed on Night 2, you'd manage to get yourself lynched to win the game.

I wish I'd been around longer, but it was fun. Later!

[McCaber]

Thanks for the welcome, everyone! I heartily enjoyed being a McCobbler, even though it was easier than you make it seem. I mean, it's not that hard to seem suspicious in this crowd.

(Sorry, Roa. I felt bad after I found out about you, really!)

[Aganzir]

I heartily enjoyed being a McCobbler
I'm looking forward to see you establish a fast food restaurant with a certain German Downer.

[A Little Green]

I'm looking forward to see you establish a fast food restaurant with a certain German Downer.:D:D *cracks* Indeed! Looking forward to that :p

[Volo]

If somebody's still interested in the narrations, here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=544954&postcount=445)'s more.

[Volo]

Added Izz's deathstory.

[satansaloser2005]

*laughs* That was beyond amazing. Thanks Volo. You totally just made my evening with that.

P.S. Emily says "Quack" and a belated well done to you all.

[Volo]

Be surprised! The narration is only 6 months late, but it is coming! :eek:

Aganzir's death (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=544954&postcount=445)