Werewolf XLII: The meaning of life forever

[Volo]

Then it was that the Ar-Pharazôn, King of Kings sent his men East to find famed warriors from all over Middle-earth. For a great competition was to be held at the Golden Temple of Armenelos. Heroes of valour would battle each other and the last one standing would be deemed worthy and granted immortality. The trial of skills would last 15 long days and after a party to honor the winner, also lasting 15 days.

Only the best of the best were invited but even so many fell back in fear of the Númenóreans. The warriors finally chosen to set sail for the Island were of a truly mighty lot, each more fearsome than the preveous and each with a glorious past, all unlike.

-----------~~

18 beautiful ships arrived to the port of Rómenna that day, each bearing one of the warriors who sought eternal life. Or did they have more reasons than that to leave on this dangerous quest? At least most of the compeditors pondered most of their journeys about their preveous life, not all of course, as they were given free access to their favourite food, being a part of the greatest event to take place in Númenor. As their ships reached the harbour they were lead away into their personal lodgings for the night.

On the next day each was personally brought in front of the most important persons in the whole world. A third of the warriors had permission to enter the Ar-Pharazôn’s palace and were blessed there by the King of Kings himself, an other third was brought to the great altar of the Golden Temple where Sauron the servant of Melkor gave them the strength of Melkor. The last third was taken to Ar-Zimraphel the Queen. None but the six warriors themselves knew that Tar Míriel secretly showed them the hights of Meneltarma, the Pillar of Heavens where she prayed Eru to save the warriors from peril. Little did she know that this was forseen by Sauron…

The third day was the last day before the first battles were to begin. Ugh-Friedrich, the host showed the 18 heroes the arena prepared. He should have known better though. As soon as they entered the Temple’s large circle, all the doors around them were shut.

Something was wrong, quite clearly. Ugh-Friedrich tried his best to look calm and knowledgeable, but the warriors didn’t pay any attention to him. It took him some time to notice that it was primarily because Ar-Pharazon stood on a high balcony. He welcomed the warriors once again and told them that they weren’t allowed to leave this building. All exept Ugh-Friedrich. He told them that he wanted them to spend the last days of their lives together, but when somebody dared to ask him what was the reason of it, he glared at the brave one with slight madness and left the balcony while humming to himself.

After a short while of sulking around a new person entered the balcony, this time the Queen. Ar-Zimraphel panted hard and shouted to the warriors that they were being betrayed. As they looked at her in alarm they saw that she looked more afraid than anybody they had ever seen before. Even more afraid than the poor buggers some of them had killed in most painful ways. The first warrior to come to her senses asked the Queen to tell more, but she never got the chance to say another word because two of Melkor’s priests jumped at her from from behind the balcony curtains and dragged her away.

It wasn’t true horror the warriors experienced. The feeling was of such high bafflement that horror had to wait for another moment. And then Sauron entered the balcony and just stood there for a while. Then he started laughing and told them that six of them were now his servants. Werewolves to be precise. Quite strong as such. This caused anger in the warriors and they wished they could attack Sauron. The brave one shouted at him and challenged him to a duel, but Sauron just continued laughing and left the balcony.

The 19 waited for somebody else to appear, but nobody did come, Slowly a discussion began.


Alive:
Brinniel
THE Ka
Shastanis Althereduin
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
McCaber
Nogrod
Legate of Amon Lanc
The Might
Thinlómien
Valier
Groin Redbeard
Meneltarmacil
Kath
Gil-Galad
Roa_Aoife
Naria
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Isabellkya
Rikae
A Little Green
Ugh-Friedrich (host)

[Nogrod]

"That sweet talkin' honeylipped apprentice of Melkor is no good news! Now talk heroes so that we may aim our hammers right when the battles begin."

Nogrod the 'almost refused a request on him' -dwarf looked sternly around.

"We need to get a picture of everyone for the battles may otherwise come to pure random."

Nogrod spat on the sandy ground.

"I say everyone votes toDay for someone thus showing a commitment to this. I for one will go after a non-voter in the battle-rounds unless there are some better reasons to go after the other one. Now what say you?"

[Valier]

Ackkk!! Sauron! I too spit at this!! evil minions in our midst, dare I say they shall perish!! They and all that are evil!! I will do my part to bring them to justice, let us all gather our thoughts and talk, talk like there is no tomorrow. Let us weed out these baddies among us.
I am not sure I concur with Nogrod here but I will give it some thought. His way might just be the most productive way today. We shall see...

[Groin Redbeard]

Groin watched as Sauron left the balcony. Never in his entire life had he been in such a predicament.

He listened to the words of his fellow dwarf, Nogrod.

"Are you saying, Nogrod, that we should now choose whom we wish to do battle against?"

[Nogrod]

I am not sure I concur with Nogrod here but I will give it some thought. His way might just be the most productive way today."You show me a more productive way and I will follow the lead." There was a mild sarcasm in his tone.

Nogrod the dwarf who had woken up this morning scanned the heroes around him in astonishment.

"Okay. I do appreciate the valour you show us by sleeping on this. Yes I do. That's brave. But I also know that everyone is not sleeping! Daydreaming in Melko's lap now are we?"

Nogrod sat down and cursed silently.

[Thinlómien]

"I say everyone votes toDay for someone thus showing a commitment to this. I for one will go after a non-voter in the battle-rounds unless there are some better reasons to go after the other one. Now what say you?""I says AYE, agreed!" boomed Thinlómien with her most orcish voice. "Even though we aren't obliged to vote", she added sweetly, her tone now melodical as a nightingale's, "we'd do each other a great favour by doing so. It will leave tracks and something to ponder for everyone of us. I can see no reason not to vote - but seems no one has even claimed there are any this far." :D

"What else? It is oddly quiet around here. Almost an hour has passed (okay, I'm exaggerating here) and only that world-famous loudmouth Nogrod of Nogrod has voiced an opinion on anything. I can't believe timezones, other businesses and/or ambitious plans hinder this many people."

"Well, there's still, of course, plenty of time for everyone to appear. Meanwhile, would someone like to play some a-footbaging with me?"

EDIT: cross-posted with Valier, Groin and Nogrod... that much for my musings on it being quite here

[Nogrod]

"Are you saying, Nogrod, that we should now choose whom we wish to do battle against?""I'm afraid we're not granted that luxury mate. They will set up against each other the way they will. In the worst scenario as He wills. That's why we need to have some talkin'... We need to have an idea of each other before we enter the battle-arena for real"

Nogrod kicked a rock in slight frustration but soon grinned for a thought that occured to him.

"Anyway if one wants to be a hero this is the chance... Just think of it. Gladiatorial fight threesome! One makes a move, another makes a move... Where should you look at, whom should you watch out for? Or should you make the first move? If the innocents make the first moves the evil one will just capitulate with an easy kill... So we need to get the baddie on defence and not leave her/him a room to outmanouver her/himself in the trio."

Nogrod sighed again.

"The only way to that is that we have some talkin' here as to form an opinion and with some brains and luck to have a chance of catching a wolf".

[Valier]

"You show me a more productive way and I will follow the lead." There was a mild sarcasm in his tone.

Please, master Dwarf, your sarcasm has no use, I for one am no leader, but I can and do find what I seek in the end. For I am a famed tracker!! I have faith in myself. It is others I do not trust. So I say your way may and (usually does) give plenty to talk about and speculate about in days to come.
But on a day such as today, when a vote does not really count, sometimes it muddles the minds of others later on. The first day is for the most part pretty random, but think with the vote not really counting today, it gives the evil doers among us a way to minipulate us with their votes . Seeing as most things today can be argued later as being first day not knowinness.

I say yes there should be some sort of a "vote" but keep in mind the implications of this being a free vote.

Valier pulled back her large hood and leaned on her bow. Now lets hear from more people. What say you all?

[THE Ka]

Taliesin wasn't much for speaking anymore. Simply, as for historical reasons in his own life, it wasn't the best course of action for him to take. As his old memories would tease him at times, he tended to remember how both his assumed parents recited with glee and also stiffled guilt at the great gift he had with words, in some ways. The story was repeated often, how upon finding his little self in a tattered skin of a bag, his 'blessed' caretakers declared a name for him immediately, to which the little Taliesin nodded and said, 'That'll do.' Apparently this meant that Taliesin was prime cut for helping those great, and advancing his family socially. Mostly, the latter.
Taliesin also had a perchant for honesty, and as for words, that meant at times he would find himself without control, spewing out what people needed to hear, not what they wanted. This of course, brought him much trouble with the folks who socially worked above not below. Which, even his dotting parents seemed to take with a new grain of salt, and sought out a way to control his 'wild tongue'.
He couldn't remember much inbetween that time and what caused him to take up the habit of the open road, only that it instilled his phobia, and left his parents and neck of the community without much 'appropriate' reknown. He probably knew well why, but didn't choose to remember how his simple guidence to local authority almost cost his life, and being seen as 'a great bane undone at the tongue!' He sometimes remembered that, and it gave him a little chuckle.

As for today, this was yet another path along the original plan of his own to gain greatfully in youth and sit back and relax in old age, wherever, and whenever that might be. Usually, he looked like a serious and 'greatly interested' being during the past day or so, but his mind was usually wondering off somewhere, in another field of thought, singing out the tune, " Give me plenty open fields with the starry skies above, don't fence me in...". While witihn the temple, and reaching the last line of his little song, the open fields disappeared and he indeed was fenced in. The doors shut. Every bloody one of them.
This wasn't his phobia. His phobia lay way off, to the east with simple folk. This factor though, did indeed miff him a bit. The building by standards wasn't bad, but it wasn't exactly his taste, and probably would get on his nerves eventually the longer he remained.
The others about clammoured their equipment and some yelled in protest to the act, as the above Maia in disguised seemed amused by it all and simply walked away. Taliesin just stood there with his hands on his hips and his equipment, starring at Sauron with slight intrigue and a little interest.

"Damn. How does he do it?", laughed sarcastically one voice in his mind. He held back a little laugh as a throat cough.
He hadn't heard much of Sauron, and was far too concerned with other beings, and collecting wealth from any services he didn't mess up with his words. Though, he had heard how this Maia had a perchant for words also, but his words seemed to be the better resume than that of the simple mortal, and indifferent Taliesin.

"Well, whatever might be certain is that I - erm, wait everyone else, the lot of us are stuck. What a way to waste, I've had such better adventures than this. With a lot more front up pay too. Hrmm, whatever may be, I might as well become some member of the society here."

The dwarf nearby was rallying for words, and that everyone come forth, especially with honest words.
" Oh no..." Taliesin muttered and dragged a hand down his long face. He bit his tongue and battled with the otherwise willing words in his mind. He had forethought alright, but he knew very well that no one particularly means real honesty when they praise it. If they did, Taliesin might have to give them an embrace of utter astonishment. Either way, he might get knifed.

"The only way to that is that we have some talkin' here as to form an opinion and with some brains and luck to have a chance of catching a wolf".


"Or we could randomly end up gutting one another, either way that is progress by your assumption.", another sarcastic voice cracked within his mind.

Taliesin shook his head, and hoped no one took it as some mystical sign of body language. He took a gulp of water from his supplies and tried to focus his mind, before he lost his head.

Most men might descriminate the fighting abilities of other races in spite of their own, but Taliesin had no doubt anyone around him could easily kill him, and turn him into a wonderful batting effigy that all races great and small could enjoy a swack at.

He was not so much a gentleman, but just plan conscious enough to know that words at their sting too. As for that, eveyone so far that had spoke was throwing arrows. Clearing his mind again, he carefully said his next words, albet maybe too quite and stern than some of the others might have approved of in a 'warrior' type.

" Sorry for my silence, I must choose my words carefully. 'Tis only a bad habit, my speech can be horrible to minds who want certain answers... Anyways, so that we may not end up on the wrong start of things, I am Taliesin of Nothing. You may just call me Taliesin, because as for being 'of something' I own naught. It is safe to say we know nothing beyond our names and other little things, with this in mind I believe we shouldn't jest with ourselves that minds are really so simple - "

"Well no great wonder there genius!" ,laughed another thought in his mind he chose to ignore it for the time being, and cleared his throat softly again.

" Even if we do learn more of one another, there are many faces to a gem, what we wish to show is fortunately and unfortunately that of choice. So in short, if I may suggest that simply making a vote isn't going to change the fact we all can be responsible for many things. I really wish it was that simple, for this challenge turned into something we all didn't bargain for. Unless you enjoy surprises with great naive, which does have its charms only if you have the time. Anyways, putting pressure on everyone's words only aids those conditioned to lie, and gives suspicion to those who otherwise only mean to speak and reason simply. Which, Nogrod, I do believe that your words call for reason, but to hold at knife point only makes the wolf sing sweeter as you gut the lamb. So, instead of maybe near torture, or complete silence, as for a touchstone we can simply introduce ourselves and go on from there. "

Taliesin finished with an exhale and decided to kept his mouth tightly shut for the next hour or so, giving only a nod when called for. He prefered to take the observant stance, take notes, maybe put it into song, and then speak. Very carefully of course. He did have some vainity for living still.


~ Taliesin Ka

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

A figure before unnoticed stepped out of the shadows. The more fascinating on it was the fact that there were no shadows around at all.

"Fellow warriors," the figure spoke with an accent resembling too closely the accent of the Avari of Mirkwood. "I believe all of us acknowledge the advantages of voting for the odd one out -" he gazed at all people except for Azalia the Average "- even though it will not bring immediate results now, it will give us some guidance in the future. The other advantage is that we can retract and change our opinions the way we wish, and only our last decision can mark our real choice. Maybe this will make this day even more vocal than normal. Or at least I would like to hope so."

*dice roll: Sense Motive check*

"I would also like to say that even though Nogrod brought up this nice idea, I have a bad feeling about him. Look at his face. Look at his words. Is he hiding behind this helpfully-seeming proposition of his?"

*dice roll: Diplomacy check*

"Anyway, I am not suggesting anything, this is just a feeling, but I'm airing it."

*dice roll: Knowledge (psychology) check*

"Because I know that people may seem different when they behave in-character. A little different. Maybe. But not always, and also not totally."

*dice roll: Sense Motive check*

"No one here seems behaving totally different from how I know them, though. Or at least I know (or think I know) what I can imagine under this difference. Valier looks strange, Groin seems good though I have nothing to compare his behavior to, and Lommy seems okay as well. Nog is the most suspicious to me this far. I find that funny myself that I make such conclusion that early, but that's just it. Anyway, there is a lot to see today yet, this is just preliminary analysis."

*dice roll: Diplomacy check: Critical miss*

"Let's wait what the others have to say. Though I know there will be only a bunch of other mindless reapers who think they can be clever or they can fool us if they are Werewolves, or cannot even behave correctly when they are Gifted. I am not wishing you good night, because you don't deserve it. And I don't even know whether I won't come back. And no, I'm not going to tell you!"

EDIT: Crossed with all since Lommy

[Nogrod]

Taliesin prefered to take the observant stance, take notes, maybe put it into song, and then speak. Very carefully of course. He did have some vainity for his life still."I do promise to quit this now. But how if we all acted like this Taliesin fellow here? Sit back and take notes of what others do? What notes there would be but notes of others trying to take notes on others who do and say nothing? Sorry milady, or dear sir? I always took you as a lady with my folklore but maybe appearances drive people to wrong tracks in this place?"

Nogrod reached for his cask and took a long draught.

"I have no major complaint anymore as people seem to be gearing up. But a thing I don't like is saying something while stating that saying something is not worthy of saying. On this kind of initial situation every word is valuable for without them the discussion will never take off. All those who discourage the discussion can be suspected of trying to hide and to hope of having as large silent crowd around them as possible."

Suddenly he noticed a new guy coming from the shadows and listened to what he had to say. Then he thought about it a moment before he opened his mouth.

"Now see what I mean. I can already say I'm getting quite weary of this stranger I have a bad feeling I need to face in the battle. Just look how nicely he lays the grounds for his attack on the actual battle. There is nothing there and he knows it, so he goes on saying I find that funny myself that I make such conclusion that early, but that's just it.But that's exactly what he can rely on when the actual battle begins..." :)

Nogrod looked at the figure again but he had already turned to leave. Nogrod shook his head but then turned back to his seat quite pleased.

"This is the way we should discuss here I think", he said. "This generates thoughts and suspicions. There's no other way of catching the wolves but action and reaction - and coming up with the reasons behind them".

[McCaber]

A figure before unnoticed stepped out of the shadows. The more fascinating on it was the fact that there were no shadows around at all.


Hmm, interesting. Then where have I been lurking for the past few hours? (checks sign on door) The "coat room." So that's why my vision was so obstructed.

Now the day is still early yet, so I don't see a real reason to throw around suspicions. This is my first encounter with werewolves, but it doesn't seem too different from some of the other minions I've finished off back home. Sauron always did like the flashy ones.

But if I'm supposed to throw out suspicions, here I go. Nogrod has been the most vocal here, by a long shot. If he's a werewolf and keeps this up, it could be easier to trap him under his lies.

Valier and Groin haven't said much one way or another. This could work against them as well.

But at the moment my suspects are Taliesin Ka and Legate. I don't believe in long monologues or dice. My suspicions will change as the day goes on, so don't value them too much.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

"Now see what I mean. I can already say I'm getting quite weary of this stranger I have a bad feeling I need to face in the battle. Just look how nicely he lays the grounds for his attack on the actual battle. There is nothing there and he knows it, so he goes on saying But that's exactly what he can rely on when the actual battle begins..." :)

*Hide check: failure*

The figure appeared again out of the shadows.

*Wisdom check*

"I am very well aware of that, sir," the figure spoke to Nogrod. "Nevertheless I can also say that the fact I focused on you with my first words had nothing to do with any private battles happening in the future. Which is intriguing by itself."

*Spot check: failure*

"Nevertheless, there is one person whom I would like to see here as well, for reasons you can imagine yourself, Nogrod. I fail to see him, now, but that does not matter - he will come. I would like to see him here for my picture to be complete. Yes, I challenge you for a duel, Nogrod, as you have forseen - but there is one more we need, and then it won't be a duel, it will be..."

*Speak language check: critical miss*

"...a trial!"

*Wisdom check: Success*

"Wow, actually, that's true... great..." :D

"Anyway, don't think I am here only to prepare my thoughts on you two. The biggest advantage of us being together here is that we can talk to everyone, and others can base their thoughts on our ideas even when we are not with them. And we know that when we meet again, lots of us will be gone..."

"Oh, and a note about this Taliesin guy. All the bards I ever met were chaotics, so take care. But I can't serve with any strong opinion about this one, because he is too..."

*Spot check: success*

"...long." *gazes upwards*

EDIT: X-ed with McCaber. This fella looks good to me. Probably neutral good. Almost lawful.

EDITEDIT:

"Oh, and I suggest whoever is not in invisible mode should do so. It does not matter much now when we are all here and it's day, but later it is most adviseable. You go into invisible mode like this. Look:"

*Hide check: Total success*

[Groin Redbeard]

Groin listened as Nogrod led the others in conversation. He listended and watched while the others expressed their opinions. When all grew quiet he rose to offer his advice.

"I admire Nogrod's assertiveness in calling for action, but this dosen't mean that he is one of the few who are under Sauron's controll. Nogrod has done more to help us than any of us put together!" Groin's voice rose nearly to a yell.

"Look at one who who calls himself Legate of Amon Lanc. He is quick to cast judgement on the rest of us. What say you to that?"

[Roa_Aoife]

(OOC: *blows dust off BD link* Let's see if this still works...)

Roa stepped forward. "So this is what it's come to?" she said quietly. "I agree with the rather loud dwarf on one point at least. Voting today may give us all tools that we'll need in the future. (OOC: It will certainly help give me something to analyze. :D) That said, I do hope some here offer suggestions in their future posts rather than continue in this... 'character typing.'

"Right now, my eyes are watching Thin. Quick to agree with the loudest voice that we should all offer opinions, and yet voicing no opinions of her own? Agreement in words and not in action is not truly agreement."

(I don't know how long I'll continue IC, but I'll certainly be wary of those who continuely make long posts that consist of nothing more than role-playing, and no real suggestions, suspicions, or ideas. *coughKaandlegatecough*)

[Roa_Aoife]

Groin listened as Nogrod led the others in conversation. He listended and watched while the others expressed their opinions. When all grew quiet he rose to offer his advice.

"I admire Nogrod's assertiveness in calling for action, but this dosen't mean that he is one of the few who are under Sauron's controll. Nogrod has done more to help us than any of us put together!" Groin's voice rose nearly to a yell.

"Look at one who who calls himself Legate of Amon Lanc. He is quick to cast judgement on the rest of us. What say you to that?"

I say it's an improvement. Better to suspect many than to suspect none. At least he's saying something and stirring conversation.

As clever as the dice rolling is, though, I could do with out it. And besides, most of those skills belong to the rogue class. ;)

[Nogrod]

The biggest advantage of us being together here is that we can talk to everyone, and others can base their thoughts on our ideas even when we are not with them."With this I truly agree with you o' figure of the shadows. Those people who disrepute the discussion toDay forget that the battles will shed a lot of light to the actual truth of the matter for those who come out alive from them... There are things to gather in there. And I do appreciate that you bring the discussions forwards. That's what we need to do.

It's a trial yes. I think everyone knows it will be a trial. That's the interesting thing. I mean it's not only who survives the "battle" but also how they do it. Some innocent kills in the trials may turn out victories for the enemies of Melkor in the end if people stay alert.

I'm waiting to hear from that Mighty warrior as well. But in the meantime I think I take a little nap and listen also to the others."

EDIT: X'd with Roa x2

[THE Ka]

"I do promise to quit this now. But how if we all acted like this Taliesin fellow here? Sit back and take notes of what others do? What notes there would be but notes of others trying to take notes on others who do and say nothing? Sorry milady, or dear sir? I always took you as a lady with my folklore but maybe appearances drive people to wrong tracks in this place?"


Taliesin had a little smile, which did give his heart some optimism but not much. When his actual gender came into question he gave an innocent laugh and wore an even bigger smile.

" Well, it is sometimes assumed that those with words tend to be of the female sort. Somehow, we all loose our form when others speak of us. Either in tales or simply the discussion we're having right now. Same as men have this silly assumption dwarves come from the earth, though I've only seen plants do such a thing. Then again, rumor has it you can makes Taliesin out of stormy sea water, a cauldron, and an angry crone. Though, for sanity purposes, I am pretty sure I am male in this life and form. Now you know two good things, my name and that I'm of the male sort. All in all, I believe anyone should speak a little if they want now, before this building and its decor drives us insane."

Taliesin found a comfy share of a colomn to rest upon, and listened with his little lute and other things, but he didn't dare play it being as it was only for the worst of circumstances. It seemed so far to him that humor quited the otherwise abrasive thoughts in his mind, and make his speech easier.

~ Taliesin

[Meneltarmacil]

*nibbles on moose jerky*

To be honest, I don't know that there's anything we can really do toDay that would really matter. There aren't going to be votes, so there won't be anybody trying to persuade villagers to vote for others. Of course, discussion about wolf strategy is a possibility, but that does not often lead to productive conclusions and can get the innocent lynched for suggesting "the wrong idea" to the village. Also, if people start sharing ideas on what could give a wolf away by his/her posts, that would most likely backfire and give the wolves a tip as to how better to remain undetected.

If there's anything that could make a good talking point, I'm all ears, though.

[Thinlómien]

But on a day such as today, when a vote does not really count, sometimes it muddles the minds of others later on. The first day is for the most part pretty random, but think with the vote not really counting today, it gives the evil doers among us a way to minipulate us with their votes . Seeing as most things today can be argued later as being first day not knowinness.I don't really know what to think of this statement. While it seems to be plausible - a thought that should maybe be thought about more - my initial reaction to this was suspicion. For two reasons. One, it plays down the importance of discussion and accusation. Two, it looks like a statement that will be followed - by the stater herself or from some other person - debate that is mostly about the vocal players who might be manipulating the village! How horrible! :eek:

:rolleyes:

Instead of being mean and orcish to anyone, I simply meant that we ought to concentrate on someone else than the loudmouths toDay. We need to focus our attention at trying to provoke discussion or reactions from the more silent ones. The chatterboxes will come out with their thoughts anyway. I would hate to have my trial with two people I have absolutely no opinion on. Lastly but not least importantly, as there can be no disastrous results from wolves trying to manipulate us toDay (as long as we have our wits back in the Days to come) , let them do it and catch them doing it. I'm far more concerned about the wolves who will try to slip under the radar, as that is what I suppose many of the furry fellows here are trying to do toDay.

Ka has been all the time in character. It really makes her less suspicious to me. A wolf might be more concerned about her appearances. Yet, on the other hand, a wolf might count on that no one minds a little in-charactering at the start of the first day and use it as an excuse for saying nothing constructive...


"Look at one who who calls himself Legate of Amon Lanc. He is quick to cast judgement on the rest of us. What say you to that?"I say, he could very well be either provoking discussion or a wolf throwing suspicion around for fun, knowing he can always say he was trying to provoke reactions. So, in conclusion, I say nothing. :rolleyes: Or then I can say that while I have no clue of his alignment, I'm laughing all too much at his posts, it's not good for my health, maybe we should lynch him. Wait, lynch? No lynch toDay... how sad.


"Right now, my eyes are watching Thin. Quick to agree with the loudest voice that we should all offer opinions, and yet voicing no opinions of her own? Agreement in words and not in action is not truly agreement."You see, I was supposed to force myself write an English research paper instead of really writing anything (except a short "hello") here tonight, but looking at this post, it looks like I couldn't keep the decision and it's going to be a long night for me...

EDIT: xed with our local pessimist :-P

[Nogrod]

If there's anything that could make a good talking point, I'm all ears, though.Now there's a tree-way battle ahead of you man and you know who they will be there with you - unless Sauron will twist that for his own amusement. If I were you I'd first of all wish to contact those that are going to share the arena with you and try to make them talk so as to have something to base your ideas of them on the actual battle. Then I could think of trying to look at other trios and to see what happens there - to be that much wiser after the initial matches are over.

I think there is exceptionally lot to do toDay - and there's no lynch toDay so you can quite be all over the place and still survive - until the threesome battle that is but anyway. And if you're an innocent your death might actually help the village if you press those in a death-match with you wisely enough.

EDIT: X'd with Lommy

[THE Ka]

Ka has been all the time in character. It really makes her less suspicious to me. A wolf might be more concerned about her appearances. Yet, on the other hand, a wolf might count on that no one minds a little in-charactering at the start of the first day and use it as an excuse for saying nothing constructive...


Oops. I thought we had to stay in character. :confused: Sorry for being a dunce, I've had neverending study for a literature class, and forgot about that.

I would hate to have my trial with two people I have absolutely no opinion on.

That or being plagued by a guilty conscience because you end up having to randomly vote. Probably why I tried to stay in character. :rolleyes:

~ Ka

[Roa_Aoife]

Psst.. Ka, Menel, you're visible.....

Wolf strategy? My understanding is that each wolf will be on their own in each battle. They can't even have a relevant strategy toDay, since they don't know who each other are. (At least that's my understanding of the rules....) It appears that each wolf is going to be on their own for the most part. It will go almost entirely to luck, especially if one supposed to fight has been killed, either by a wolf or the gaurdian. Wolf strategy will assuredly be to survive, but they will have to do so separately. And in this we have a great advantage indeed, for they enemy can't work together to confuse us.

Our strategy, as it is, will have to rest primarily on toDay. This will be difficult, since the wolves don't know each other yet, and we won't be able to look for connections. But the more we discuss and post today, the more ammunition we will have in coming days to battle the evil in our midsts.

That said, Thin, who has not returned, still has my interest, as do Ka (for lack of substance- you're a wonderful writer bu that's not helping) and Menel (for trying to dampen discussion.)

EDIT: X posted with everyone from post 19 down.

[Nogrod]

Now there's a tree-way battle ahead of you man and you know who they will be there with you - unless Sauron will twist that for his own amusement.How stupid can you get? :o

I had kind of a nauseating feeling as I didn't understand why Volo told us not to reveal the Day we were going to be on the "trial" and still thought he had revealed us the actual trios in his example (which it was, I checked it). It was only now it bothered me enough that I checked it.

But I'm not sure if that changes anything. Knowing with whom you would have played threesome would have been quite interesting but I'm not sure if this is any less so... Anyone here might be with you in a threeway game. Would you like to face two people of whom you have no idea?

[Roa_Aoife]

Thin, glad to see you. I knew you could come up with some ideas, so I was surprised when all you did was agree and disappear.

I agree that the quiet are dangerous (I've noticed that Werewolf ninja Naria is on the play list....) but don't forget that loud wolves are just as dangerous because they can sway the village. I strongly encourage everyone to post, but your statement that the loud manipulative wolves aren't disastrous rings false. They could easily confuse discussion today, stir up innocents into making mistakes that get them lynched.

Ka, it's not that you're in character. It's that you're ONLY in character. Other's who have posted in character have still made useful conjecture in character. You haven't. By all means, post in character, but have your character do more than observe, joke, or clarify gender. Perhaps he could offer some help.

[Thinlómien]

I agree that the quiet are dangerous (I've noticed that Werewolf ninja Naria is on the play list....) but don't forget that loud wolves are just as dangerous because they can sway the village. I strongly encourage everyone to post, but your statement that the loud manipulative wolves aren't disastrous rings false. They could easily confuse discussion today, stir up innocents into making mistakes that get them lynched. I know loud wolves are dangerous. I just think that in late games, everybody's been paying too much attention them compared to the attention payed to quiet or relatively quiet people and more importantly, what I meant by that disastrous-comment, is that as long as we recover our senses and see through their manipulation before our trial days, they don't pose a great threat.

[Roa_Aoife]

I know loud wolves are dangerous. I just think that in late games, everybody's been paying too much attention them compared to the attention payed to quiet or relatively quiet people and more importantly, what I meant by that disastrous-comment, is that as long as we recover our senses and see through their manipulation before our trial days, they don't pose a great threat.

I see. I haven't been around lately, so I didn't realize people were letting the quiet ones go. You're quite right then. Thank you for clarifying your statement.

[Roa_Aoife]

*whistling wind sound effect*

Where'd everybody go?

*thinks* I know!

LYNCH NOGROD!!!!!!!!! He's a wolf I know it this time! No really, THIS time I'm telling the truth!!!!!

That oughta get a response....

Seriously people, get talking.

[Thinlómien]

I'm still here, Roa, but as nothing new springs to my mind and it's past 2am here, I'm rather concentrating on finishing my research paper. But nevertheless, I'm watching this thread. *coughshouldIposttotoptensignsyou'readdictedtotheB arrow-Downscough*

As for lynching Nogrod, why not? :cool: After all, he might be a wolf as well as anyone else and we're not going to lose him anyway, even if we voted him. Seriously though, I don't know yet who will I vote and who do I really suspect, I'm eager to see more people around...

And I'd like to state the obvious and underline the fact that this Day is of the utmost importance, for it is the proof on which many accusations on the trial Days will be based on. And one can hardly get rid of a wolf then if s/he has no idea of his/her "rivals'" doings. And we really should get rid of more wolves then than is matemathically probable, for otherwise our final village of 14 villagers will be including four or five wolves, which is all too much. It would be actually quite cool if we got rid of all the wolves on the trial days... :D Sadly that's quite an optimistic vision.

PS. This systems wants to split my ultralong word, even though it is on one line. Why? :confused:

[THE Ka]

Pretty much the same here. Except, not a paper but reviewing +900 years of literary theory, oh the joy...:rolleyes:
As you may guess, this is probably far more interesting.

I dunno if everyone else knew completely about the pre-trial day, but I would guess it was pretty well spread so that at least people would come look at it. Though you are right, it is pretty bloody (no pun intended completely) important to at least post something or read. I dunno, we have a few more hours I guess, there has to be a few more players that will come in. Hopefully... Before our eyes glaze over.
So, I guess we can just wait or randomly vote for fun.
*stares off into space*

~ Ka

[Roa_Aoife]

Wow, I left, had dinner, went home, called the cable company, and came back to two new posts.

I wonder, do you think some people got confused and thought they weren't supposed to come till their assigned day? I almost did that...

Still, when my day in the arena comes, should niether of my opponents seem particularly suspicious I'll probably (probably, mind you, not definitely) vote the one who posted the least on this day.

Thin, our village of 12 (not 14), will have equal odds of a high number of specials, so it's not all bad. And should we do well today, we can certainly aid our fellow innocents in their battles and really hurt the enemies' odds.

Also you put a space between the b and a in Barrow, so that's why it wants to split it.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I hadn't been posting because I thought it was Day 0.1 and there were only three people supposed to post. o_o;; Apparently not!

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I wasn't entirely sure when I was supposed to post, either, but I thought I'd just swing by here and double-check. So I'm here now. :rolleyes: at myself.

Sorry for not showing up sooner.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

And now on to a little actual substance...

I agree that the quiet are dangerous (I've noticed that Werewolf ninja Naria is on the play list....) but don't forget that loud wolves are just as dangerous because they can sway the village. I strongly encourage everyone to post, but your statement that the loud manipulative wolves aren't disastrous rings false. They could easily confuse discussion today, stir up innocents into making mistakes that get them lynched.


I agree with Roa to a point... Loud wolves are just as effective (if not more so) as quiet, sneaky ones. However, I think it's important to keep in mind that loudness and quietness are not always indicators of role--they could indicate personal playing style regardless of whether one is innocent, wolf, or gifted. A person's loudness or quietness could have basis nowhere in the game but instead on other demands on their time.

It is very important not to throw today away completely, and also that it is probably worth a bit more than it normally might be, but I also don't think I will be basing my decisions about the innocence of the other two people on my trial day on today alone. This is a day one. It's always going to be a little weird, and things aren't going to really get going until we all get to know each other.

*shrug* just a thought.

[Roa_Aoife]

The unfortunate thing, Azaelia, is that this is our only opportunity to help each other out. When the trial day comes, this is the only context each of will have to work with. I've always been a Day 1 advocate, true, but this day 1 is much more important than usual. We won't have any other context for our opponents actions when the trials start. Unless you want a day 1 repeat with little to no evidence when it comes, and you're one of three lynch candidates along with a wolf, we need to get down to business today.

Also, Thin and I wre not suggesting that loudness or quietness be the deciding factor in whom to lynch (although it does tend to end up that way). Thin was saying we should focus on the people who are quiet now because wolves could be hiding among them and they tend to get ignored. I was saying that wolves can just as easily hide among the loud and we shouldn't focus one way or another but be open to all possibilities. Thin, of course, had knowledge that people really HAVE been forgetting the quiet ones, which is always dangerous, but especially today.

I for one, do not look forward to sharing the arena with someone who hasn't posted much or at all toDay, because then I'll have nothing to look at, and no way to gain context on what people are saying.

[Roa_Aoife]

I must be going now. I'll try to log back in before the end tomorrow- my computer acess is a bit limited at the moment- I just moved and I don't have internet set up in my apartment yet. (Hence the call to the cable guy). Right now I'm forced to get to the Post's library to get acess. That said, I'll do my best. I hope something interesting happens while I sleep.

[Meneltarmacil]

Ah, we now have the good old "loud vs. quiet" debate. Trouble is, this is precisely the sort of thing that causes villagers to turn on each other and say "He says we should lynch the quiet ones, so he must be a wolf!" Furthermore, I don't remember that any wolves were actually caught due to being suspiciously quiet or loud. To me, a loud person becomes a loud wolf, and a quiet person becomes a quiet wolf.

Between the two of them, however, I'd say a loud wolf is more dangerous than a quiet wolf due to its ability to affect votes, unless it's an inept loud wolf, in which case it ends up as a Fenris.

[McCaber]

Thank you, Menel. I was getting worried. Just because I don't feel a need to say everything that crosses my mind doesn't mean I'm a wolf.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Roa, thanks for clarifying. I'm glad you did, since now that I see where you stand, I agree. :) Cheers!

I also think you're right about not wanting to start with a completely blank slate on the trial day. With no frame of reference on someone, it's hard to get anywhere.

Seems the debate isn't much of a debate after all. ;)

For the record, I think the loud wolves are just as dangerous as the quiet ones. The loud ones can attract votes for their cause, but I'm a bit more unnerved by the idea of a wolf flying under the radar so to speak, and just letting the rest of the village lynch each other.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Last post crossed with McCaber. I just felt the need to add on to what I just said, and I know the policy about editing posts in WW threads.

I agree with McCaber somewhat, too. I think it's not a good thing to be too silent, keeping every thought to oneself, but too much talking from one person just serves to muddy the waters and can attract the wrong kind of attention from the direction of the wolves or from that of innocents.

[THE Ka]

I wonder, do you think some people got confused and thought they weren't supposed to come till their assigned day?

Now as it stands so far, yes. I almost forgot this morning, then I remembered I was one who voted for the pre-game day...:rolleyes:

Hopefully that more people know there was such a thing, maybe we can have some reading of the overall thread and some posting. Or not. Like I said before, it would be nice at least if people came by and read the thread so far. Just so that when their day comes up, they won't end up being in the wrong kind of dark, and end up surprising others with apparent pre-game knowledge. Overall, the latter might make a more interesting game and possibly save it.

To me, a loud person becomes a loud wolf, and a quiet person becomes a quiet wolf.


Since even the wolves don't know other wolves, the pre-game day is anyone's gambit and everyone's reference book. Same is true with specials and innocents, etc. So, I guess in a way there is some relief having the ambiguity so that individual styles and plays come forth when players post. Usually these things get lost when the wolves and specials know each other in their roles. There are big challenges with pre-game posts, but they are also in a way helpful at least for giving some material to work with.
We could have a whole bloody mess of ackward silence and fumbly voting if the trial days started off immediately.
This game will take longer now, but at least it will be worth playing.

Speaking of which, this will probably be my last for the night, since a wind storm is coming into my neck of the Pacific and the electricity has already fuzzed out once.
:(


~ Ka

[Brinniel]

Brinn steps in, hair hiding half her face, and lights a cigarette.

"Well, certainly a lot has been said when there's really not much of anything to say."

Brinn takes a drag and lets out a bit of smoke.

"Seriously. While I can see why Nogrod and Lommy want all of us to vote, in the long run it will do little good. Because while a third of us may be wolves and another third gifted, toDay we are all nothing but ordinaries and not even.

"There has been no Night, and there won't be for sometime. So, no opportunity for evil wolf plotting and no opportunity for gifteds to dream, hunt, whatever. The wolves don't even know who their fellow wolves are. The wolves and gifteds are just as lost as any ordinary should be. And we cannot even lynch someone...so you could even say we're lesser than ordinaries.

Since no one knows who each other is and we can't actually lynch anyone, what exactly are we to say? How are we to identify if someone's acting wolfish when the wolves don't know anything more than us ordinaries do? It's something I'm asking out loud because I really don't know. I could throw out suspicions, but I feel it'd be only by chance I would accurately suspect a werewolf. Come Day 1, anything that happened toDay will have no real significance; we'll all be examining what occurred during Days 0.1-0.6.

And yet while everything we say might not matter in the long run, here we are actively discussing. And of course about the same old topics that always seem to be discussed on the first Day: is roleplaying good or bad, whether to suspect the loud or quiet... These sort of discussions keep going around in their own circles and I don't really think it'll get us anywhere. But then again, I suppose it is better for us to discuss the same old things, rather than to not discuss at all..."

Brinn drops her cigarette and puts it out with her foot.

[Thinlómien]

Oh, Brinn, you know, that was not supposed to be said aloud...

Anyway, in my opinion, there is some point to wolf-hunting toDay. Even though the wolves don't know their fellows and no one is in actual danger of lynching and we have no kill to analyse, we can still flush some wolves out (optimistically speaking). The wolves know they are guilty, and it will affect their behaviour, more or less. Just see.

I'm slightly troubled, though. I know it's only relatively early day1 and a special one, but still it is quite alarming that there has been remarkably little suspicion expressed. Unlike McCaber and Azaelia, I feel that innocents (and wolves ;)) do a great favour to the village by expressing as much of their thoughts as they can and as openly as it is possible (disincluding, of course, gifted speculation etc), because that allows the other villagers to see to their mind and how they're thinking and thus allows them to judge their behaviour and find the wolves.

Speaking of suspicions, Brinn, Valier and Zali seem a bit odd to me. However, I'm well aware of the fact that my intuitive suspicion of them might be based on the fact that I disagree with some things they've said. Valier and Brinn both seem to be downplaying the importance of this Day, and thus playing to the hands (or should I say paws?) of the wolves. Which is why I wouldn't be surprised at all if they turned out to be wolves or cobblers - even though I'm afraid my suspicion of them isn't very high based on such little evidence. Zali, then, she just seems wrong to me, as a gut-feeling, there is something fishy in her very manner. It seems she mostly repeats what others have said and that kind of behaviour always makes me suspicious. But, in order to add some so called "Lommy-flipflopping", :p I must say I think I always suspect her, whether she's innocent or guilty... (last time, mind you, she was actually guilty)

Roa seems to be acting a bit too harmonically with others to be her normal self - is she a wolf looking for possible allies?

Ah, we now have the good old "loud vs. quiet" debate. Trouble is, this is precisely the sort of thing that causes villagers to turn on each other and say "He says we should lynch the quiet ones, so he must be a wolf!" Furthermore, I don't remember that any wolves were actually caught due to being suspiciously quiet or loud. To me, a loud person becomes a loud wolf, and a quiet person becomes a quiet wolf.What? If you ask me, no one was actually starting the traditional loud vs quiet debate (merely discussing loudness and quietness toDay) before you brought it up by that comment. I'm glad no one has taken the bait. And I hardly see it as fair to pop up just to criticise others' discussion while adding hardly anything of importance. Oh, I see my orcish manners popped up again. I didn't mean to be that edgy or offensive (if my comment seems such). And even though I criticise Menel's behaviour, I don't think it necessarily makes him suspicious (his behaviour, not my criticism, that is).

Thin, our village of 12 (not 14), will have equal odds of a high number of specials, so it's not all bad. And should we do well today, we can certainly aid our fellow innocents in their battles and really hurt the enemies' odds.I agree with your matemathics (thanks for correcting me) but not with your optimism. I think we are in a really tough situation and quite probably the odds are against us when the actual normal game begins. But let's not lose hope! I just want to say (in case I don't make it to the finals and won't be able to say it there), that the finals won't probably be a place for lazing, but really tough job.

Also you put a space between the b and a in Barrow, so that's why it wants to split it.Really, that comment made me laugh so much. :D But I swear, I didn't.

[Brinniel]

I should mention that I for the most part do find Day 1 to be a very useful, sometimes even critical Day. But in this case, toDay seems fairly useless. Maybe it seems useful to some now...after all, toDay is all we have. But will you really use toDay as the basis for your suspicions later on? I don't think there'll be enough clues for anyone to do that. Since everyone is safe for now, the werewolves will do whatever they want; some may be careful, and some may act outrageously. Some may try to do everything to manipulate us and some may keep under the radar doing whatever possible to remain unnoticed.There's not any way to tell what behaviour is wolfish at this time. Because the wolves don't know each other and every one of them will have their own individual strategy.

I know it's only relatively early day1 and a special one, but still it is quite alarming that there has been remarkably little suspicion expressed.
Well, I'm not surprised at all. For obvious reasons, of course... :rolleyes:

Okay, maybe I'm just being the pessimist here...that's my job. And when I wrote my statement, I figured there would be some who strongly disagree, but that doesn't matter because call it suspicious or not, this is what I think. But go ahead, prove me wrong. After all, isn't that part of the game?

Anyways in all technicalities, this isn't Day 1 at all. So in all arguments, Day 1 could still very well remain a critical Day when it does come around..

[Thinlómien]

I don't think there'll be enough clues for anyone to do that. Since everyone is safe for now, the werewolves will do whatever they want; some may be careful, and some may act outrageously. Some may try to do everything to manipulate us and some may keep under the radar doing whatever possible to remain unnoticed. There's not any way to tell what behaviour is wolfish at this time. Because the wolves don't know each other and every one of them will have their own individual strategy.I still disagree. Many people - not only just new players - alter their strategy of playing when they're evil, either consciously or subconsciously (like in my case). And I'd like to point out, again, that the mere fact that one knows s/he is guilty is enough to leave tracks for a careful reader. Finding wolvish clues toDay might be difficult, but it's possible, and not even that difficult.
And you asked who will base their future decisions on toDay... I will, for one. Not of course entirely, probably to a far lesser extent than what happens on my trial Day, but I will consider it nevertheless.

Anyone who refuses to talk or suspect because s/he thinks toDay is worthless seems suspicious to me. After all, innocent people are not harmed by any extra evidence, accusations and analysis, whereas the wolves are.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I have to confess I read only up to some #36 and only skimmed through the rest, so I am speaking mainly to the things before #36. I don't have time now and will be back only very late about two hours before DL. But a few thoughts from me.

I don't like the "loud players may manipulate the village" and all the other cliché "loud-quiet" debates, one would presume this can be laid aside when we have such a special day as this one! *Intimidate check* Now I could say that all who try to make fruitless debate like this are wolves. And I don't know whether Menel is just so pessimistic or so wolf (or Cobbler, or how is that called here).

Oh, and I think you did not say that clearly enough, Nog (because evidently still people think so), but you are right!!! I also thought it strange Volo told us not to reveal our days, when he revealed them himself...
What Volo posted is an EXAMPLE, so this is NOT how the Days are ordered, nor how the three-people combinations look! (possibly) So we DON'T know with whom we are having the trial! Oh, my!!!

Hm, so looks I'm running out of time. There is nothing much I can add, hopefully in the evening. Later.

And P.S. Roa, but lots of these are Ranger skills as well!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh, and one more thing. I caught this by the corner of my eye in Brinn's post, which I did not read whole, but I saw that also before in, I believe, Menel's or someone else's post - I say we SHOULD vote. All of us. If we do so, we make a clear statement and as the Wolves don't know what their mates are, they will later have to do something with the fact that they suspected their friends (they can continue suspecting them, but they will most probably back away from voting them, or be very careful with it. And other reactions, you name it).

So that's it, leaving for now... sorry I could not speak more and reply in particular to your posts :( No time. Later...

EDIT: Writing in a hurry, maybe I don't make that much sense. *points up* What I meant by the first sentence was that Brinn and Menel, or whoever it was, said it makes no sense to vote. My reaction is that only for the wolves it's tactically better not to vote today.

[Volo]

All of a sudden the doors to the Temple were opened and three more warriors were lead in. Before the three warriors noticed what kind of evil was around them the doors were shut once again.

--------~~

A Little Green, Isabellkya and Rikae are now in the Temple. This means that there will be seven stage1 Days.

Have fun!

[Thinlómien]

Nogrod
#2 Is the first one to post. Says that everybody should vote, calls for discussion.
#5 Replies to Valier, and states, rather ironically, that if she has a better suggestion than voting, he's willing to listen. Complains about people being away.
#7 Replies to Groin, says that we need to have ideas of one other before we enter the trial days. Also warns about innocents not making the first move on the trial days and says they should try to corner the wolf. says that people should talk.
#11 Criticises Ka's decision to remain in the shadows and observe. Says that in the current situation, anything is worth saying. Says discussion-discourages can be suspected. Encourages others to follow Legate's example and throw some opinions around.
#17 Agrees with Legate that toDay will be great material in the Days to come. Says: "Some innocent kills in the trials may turn out victories for the enemies of Melkor in the end if people stay alert."
#21 Responses to Menel, says one should try to take contact with those s/he's going to play with in the trials.
#24 Realises he doesn't know who will he be fighting against.

Valier
#3 Urges people to talk "like there is no tomorrow", is not sure if she agrees with Nogrod about voting.
#8 Says she's no leader but rather a solitary soul. (Sorry for phrasing it that way, couldn't resist...) Says Nogrod's way of playing (?) creates plenty to talk and speculate about. Warns against the danger of evildoers manipulating the "ghost vote". Says that "most things today can be argued later as being first day not knowinness."

Groin Redbeard
#4 A few insignificant lines & "Are you saying, Nogrod, that we should now choose whom we wish to do battle against?"
#14 Implies that Nogrod is leading the discussion. "I admire Nogrod's assertiveness in calling for action, but this dosen't mean that he is one of the few who are under Sauron's controll. Nogrod has done more to help us than any of us put together!" Points to Legate's quick accusations and asks what others think of it.

THE Ka
#9 in-character, "Anyways, putting pressure on everyone's words only aids those conditioned to lie, and gives suspicion to those who otherwise only mean to speak and reason simply. Which, Nogrod, I do believe that your words call for reason, but to hold at knife point only makes the wolf sing sweeter as you gut the lamb." Says she will take an observing stance.
#18 in-character
#22 Apologises and explains in-character posts. Says that she would hate to have the trial with someone she has no opinion on or to vote randomly and have bad guilty conscience in the trials.
#30 Says she's present but has nothing special to say. wonders if everybody is aware of the pre-day. Says posting and reading toDay is important.
#41 Hopes that the rest of the players will come. "Since even the wolves don't know other wolves, the pre-game day is anyone's gambit and everyone's reference book. Same is true with specials and innocents, etc. So, I guess in a way there is some relief having the ambiguity so that individual styles and plays come forth when players post. Usually these things get lost when the wolves and specials know each other in their roles."

Legate of Amon Lanc
#10 Supports voting. Has a bad feeling about Nogrod. Says Valier is strange while Groin and Lommy are ok. Finds it funny that he is taking conclusions so quickly.
#13 Responses to Nogrod about the trials. Says he would like to see The Might around as he assumes they will be in the same trio. Has vague (and unserious?) suspicious of Ka. Suggests people to change into the invisible mode.
#46 "I don't like the "loud players may manipulate the village" and all the other cliché "loud-quiet" debates -- Now I could say that all who try to make fruitless debate like this are wolves." Doesn't like Menel's pessimism. EMPHASISES the fact that WE DON'T KNOW who are we going to be against!!!! (:rolleyes: :p) "And P.S. Roa, but lots of these are Ranger skills as well!"
#47 Clarifies: "What I meant by the first sentence was that Brinn and Menel, or whoever it was, said it makes no sense to vote. My reaction is that only for the wolves it's tactically better not to vote today." Says we should vote.

McCaber
#12 Says it's too early to throw suspicion around, but if he's supposed to do so, he would name Ka and Legate, as he doesn't "believe in long monologues or dice". Says it will be easy to trap Nogrod if he lies, says that Valier and Groin haven't said much one way or another and it could work against them in future.
#38 Thanks Menel and says: "Just because I don't feel a need to say everything that crosses my mind doesn't mean I'm a wolf."

Roa_Aoife
#15 Agrees we should vote. Suspects Lommy for agreeing with Nogrod in words but not in action. Says she'll be wary of people who only post in-character.
#16 (Double posts, ie starts characteristic flood-posting. ;)) Says that it's good that Legate is stirring discussion with his comments and that it's better to suspect many than to suspect none.
#23 Notes about invisibility. Points out that the wolves don't have a relevant mutual strategy as they don't know each other and will work as individuals. "Thin, who has not returned, still has my interest, as do Ka (for lack of substance- you're a wonderful writer but that's not helping) and Menel (for trying to dampen discussion.)"
#25 Agrees with Lommy that quiet people are dangerous, but wonders says her statment on manipulative wolves rings false. Clarifies to Ka that there's nothing wrong with ic in general, but if one posts only in character, it is a problem.
#27 Thanks Lommy for clarifying her statement.
#28 Asks where's everybody, jokingly calls for the lynching of Nogrod.
#31 Wonders if people know they should be around. "Still, when my day in the arena comes, should niether of my opponents seem particularly suspicious I'll probably (probably, mind you, not definitely) vote the one who posted the least on this day." Corrects Lommy's maths and claims we stand a good chance of winning this game.
#35 "The unfortunate thing, Azaelia, is that this is our only opportunity to help each other out. When the trial day comes, this is the only context each of will have to work with." Corrects Azaelia about what she (Roa) and Lommy were actually saying. does not look forward to trialing with those who are silent toDay.
#36 Goes and hopes to be back.

Meneltarmacil
#19 Thinks there's nothing to do toDay.
#37 Observes that the loud vs quiet debate is going on and critcises it. Joins the debate by saying that loud ones are slightly more dangerous, because they affect the votes.

Shastanis Althereduin
#32 pops up

Azaelia of Willowbottom
#33 pops up
#34 Agrees with Roa about the effectiveness of loud wolves. States the obvious by saying loudness and quietness point more to the person's playing style than his/her role. "It is very important not to throw today away completely, and also that it is probably worth a bit more than it normally might be, but I also don't think I will be basing my decisions about the innocence of the other two people on my trial day on today alone."
#39 Thanks Roa for clarifying. Agrees that blank trial days are a no-no. "For the record, I think the loud wolves are just as dangerous as the quiet ones."
#40 Comments McCaber's post by saying "I think it's not a good thing to be too silent, keeping every thought to oneself, but too much talking from one person just serves to muddy the waters and can attract the wrong kind of attention from the direction of the wolves or from that of innocents."

Brinniel
#42 While she sees why Nogrod and Lommy want everyone to vote, she disagrees with them. Concludes that we can do nothing toDay, since the wolves are in the same situation with the ordinaries and there will be no lynch.
#44 Says she does usually find Day1s useless, but this one is an exception. says there is no way of concluding what kind of behaviour is wolvish. "Anyways in all technicalities, this isn't Day 1 at all. So in all arguments, Day 1 could still very well remain a critical Day when it does come around.."

Nothing from
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
The Might
Kath
Naria
Gil-Galad

So... based on this, I'd say that Roa looks slightly suspicious with her friendliness and constant agreeing, it's something I find uncharacteristic for her and wolvish. Brinniel gives wolvish vibes with her general attitude and way of saying things and her pessimism. I have already stated my opinion on Zali and Valier and I'd like to add Menel to that list for his contradictory stance on the infamous loud vs quiet debate. Thanks to his two latest somewhat odd posts, I'm slightly wary of Legate as well. Groin's suspiciousness is most probably just newbieishness in disguise. Shasta could be nominated for the least constructive presence, but that - I'm afraid - does not make him a wolf.

I might vote one of those persons and watch them all very closely toDay, but if I'm still alive when the "finals" begin, I will be paying a lot more attention to the ones that have not caught my attention in any way toDay, mostly the non-posters, that is. I will leave soon-ish, but be back a few hours before the deadline.

EDIT: xed with Volo

[Thinlómien]

1) Wow... I'm glad to see those three joining our ranks. :D I only hope they will be able to post at least a little toDay and timezones don't prove problematic to them (I'm mainly thinking about Isabell and Rikae here).

2) Where is everyone? For a village of this size, it's very quiet here. Is everybody this confused about the playing days?

[Aganzir]

Due to the half-deleted narration, Aganzir has no idea what's happening. She spurs her horse forward and stops only in front of Nogrod.

"A little bit more courtesy when speaking about my Lord Sauron, please!" she says disdainfully to the dwarf, tapping her nails on the saddle so that the ring in her finger can be clearly seen. "I know you are just envious he chose me, but that isn't an excuse for such behaviour, and if need be I will meet you in the arena." Aganzir glances also Valier quickly and starts then riding around the room, observing the other warriors.

"And unlike you ugly orc there, I can see reasons not to vote - but no such reasons are there for innocents. The only ones who benefit from not voting are those mongrels who have undeservingly connected themselves to my Lord and swear on his name. By saying "it doesn't matter whether or not we vote as no one's lynched anyway", they are playing it safe. So as not to suspect any of their future fellows accidentally (and maybe thus contribute to them being killed in their trials), I wonder."

"Coat room you say, McCaber? Did they give you a nice-coloured wolf's coat?"

"What's strange about that Legate throwing suspicions around, Groin? I say it's a good thing, but I just hope he didn't roll dice to decide whom to suspect because that constant rolling noise hurts my ears."

"I agree with Roa about people who do nothing but post in character. I almost want to lynch them just that there wouldn't be so much to read. (And as for me, I will stop this after this very post.)"

"Brinniel, also I will use today as a basis for my suspicions later. Or, rather, I'm looking forward to see changes in behaviour when the wolves are revealed their mates. And that's why it's important that everybody speaks and suspects as much as possible today."

Aganzir pulls her horse to a stop. "At the moment Roa is the only whom I consider innocent, but I guess I have heard enough about her so that the feeling is as good as nothing."

She takes a look at her notes, then lets the piece of paper fall to the floor and rides away for a while.

Wolf:
Lommy because she strikes me as wolfish.
Nogrod - the way he says some things is weird in a way that resembles a Nogwolf.
Menel. Instead of using his only post in discussing the quiet/loud issue, he could have said something.
Azaelia because she doesn't really say anything. Agrees with someone, discusses (IMO) irrelevant matters such as quiet/loud wolves, and doesn't express any suspicion.
Brinniel because the way she keeps pushing the unimportance of this day looks like a wolf who doesn't want to risk suspecting her fellows.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Welcome to the three new people! ^^

I suppose that means they'll be in the arena together on the seventh day?

I'll pop up with more substance later.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Well. Day 1 and I'm already attracting suspicion. Welcome back, Zali. :P

Anyway.

Azaelia because she doesn't really say anything. Agrees with someone, discusses (IMO) irrelevant matters such as quiet/loud wolves, and doesn't express any suspicion.

I was just joining in the conversation at hand, which happened to be, at least in part, about quiet/loud wolves. I was also worried by the fact that Roa had said that she was going to be using today a lot and that people who weren't particularly active today were going to be more likely to get her vote on trial days, since I am generally a quiet player. And I'm a bit rusty at this. *sigh*

I haven't expressed any suspicion because it's just the first day. I have already said that while I'm not throwing today away completely, I do not want to base any opinions on today alone. It must be a personal style thing. I'm not a fan of the finger-pointing that happens on Day 1s. I'm actually not a fan of Day 1s in general. I don't think we have enough from anyone yet to form a solid opinion.

Anyway, this is possibly my last post of the day, since I have class soon.

[Nogrod]

I haven't expressed any suspicion because it's just the first day. I have already said that while I'm not throwing today away completely, I do not want to base any opinions on today alone.I don't think anyone is saying one should lock one's opinions toDay! But if people do not talk there is nothing to gain from this Day and it has been a useless banter and speculation of a few.

Let me illuminate this with an example.

Let's say I'm thrown in the ring with say Naria and Gil-Galad (and let's assume for the sake of the argument that they will not show up before the trials). Now if they keep up with their "hunker down & lay low" tactics how am I supposed to decide which one to vote? Another one of them will be a wolf so I'd need to get it right but how? Throwing a dice?

Let's take another example.

If I'm to be thrown on the arena with Lommy and Roa I'll have lots to read and think - and I'm pretty sure they will give me further food for thought that Day as well. So I may base my vote on something instead of pure guesswork.

And even if the wolves are on their own toDay it is right what Legate noted: they may toDay accidentally vote or make open suspicions over their mates and that might be a burden so it's suitable for the wolves to be lenient and nice to everyone. And what's more important, they should not voice any suspicions they actually have - for surely they are on the look out for their mates now - just not to spoil their game later. So look carefully at those being nice and smooth but also to fabricated suspicions eg. those that can be easily reverted as pure Day1 testing or banter.

I'll try to follow my own advice soon and give you my views on people.

[Valier]

Wow...I went to bed thinking I would have page upon page to read today, but to no avail. There seems to be only about 10 new posts. This quietness is disheartening, I should be around till almost the end today, so lets hope some more people turn up. I'm off to read, and hopefully form some opinions no matter how weak they may be.

[Valier]

I was going to make a list, but what I was going to say has already been said by a few people. My suspicions today include

Zali- I find it funny, that she finds it odd that she has suspicion already. I pretty much figured everyone would have some suspicion today. Says she does not want to suspect anyone today....huh did I get that right?

Shasta- Says very little, is going to come back with more substance....I find that a little hard to do today...could be a wolf, trying to be helpful.

Aganzir- not sure I like that already he thinks Roa an Ordo...unwise Roa is very cunning and it is not good to underestimate her so early on.


I know these reasons are weak, but something about these three just doesn't sit right. going by their words and actions today only. I will be watching Nogrod, Lommy, Legate and Roa in the days to come though. They are for me the ones to keep an eye on, they have fooled me before and I always find them hard to read. Don't get me wrong I will be watching everyone, but they warrant more watching from me as well as my suspects.

[Groin Redbeard]

Groin's suspiciousness is most probably just newbieishness in disguise.
Thank you Thinlomien for your kind words.;) I like you analysis very much, the best we've had of yet.

Right now the only one whom I think is a wolf is Brinniel
. The one who was eager to postpone yesterdays discussions. I think she just dosen't know who her fellow Were Wolves are, that's why she dosen't accuse anybody.

[Valier]

I think this is my first triple post ever....

People who still haven't posted

satansaloser2005
Alittlegreen
The Might
Kath
Naria
Gil-Galad
Rikae
Isabel

Do you think they all forgot about this day? makes you wonder...

[The Might]

Har har, hear I am!
Btw, could any of you be so kind and explain this whole trio thing to me again...I am not quite sure that I really understand how this thing is supposed to work.

Didn't really noticed that the game started till, then again I haven't been on for quite a while.

So, my early thoughts... are not yet there.

[Nogrod]

I would agree with Lommy that Roa is acting in a strangely consiliatory way. And to top that it's interesting that while she discusses the importance of this Day she does little else but talks about general issues. Well, I've myself done pretty much the same this far so maybe I can't blame her on that. On the other hand I do agree with most if not all of what she says about the general issues and that adds to my feel good -factor with her.

In my view - at this point - I'd say that I'm not at all relaxed with her but she speaks sense as always, also when she's a baddie.

Legate is another person around here who has posted more and with whom I have some concerns. It seemed that he was under the very same and faulty impression as I was that those trios Volo posted on the discussion thread would be the actual trios. Looking at his first post from that point of view brings Mac's first post from the last game to my mind very vividly. There Mac was a wolf who didn't know who I am and tried to frame me from the beginning making outrageously fabricated zero-suspicions the whole content of his post. I realised he was a wolf from that. Funnily I was to be a lynched wolf of a competing team so nobody believed me in the beginning... :p

But there is something strikingly similar in Legate's post even if it's more subtile. Mainly I'm worried about the way he could be seen laying groundwork for his possible vote on me in the trial to come (which we both then thought we were facing each other in). Legate is a reasonable player and when he is playing for the good of the village he's the most considerate person who avoids suspicions without a cause. But for some reason he decided to open the trial game already there in his first post of Day0.0. Why would that be if not to secure his stance on the trial-Day? And why would he feel the need to secure that position? Well a wolf might need it if he were to try and win a trophy...

Yet again after that he has played most wisely and made a few good points. Also I like his way of playing because he actually posts and brings forwards new ideas.

I might consider voting Legate or Roa toDay on these grounds.

*Diplomacy check: fumble, red alert!*

But I do hope I will find better candidates because both of them would be real assets to us if they are innocents and fighting wars between us as innocents would only play to the hands of the wolves. If we had an actual lynch toDay I'd rather vote for someone not committed to the game though... the loudmouths tend to get caught as the game proggresses as the net of lies they have to weave breaks sooner or later.

*Diplomacy check: not good but getting an inch better*

We need to speak our minds here now and toDay even if it means voicing concerns about people we like to play with.

*Diplomacy check: lost the die*

(The end of copying Legate's style)

~*~

Lommy I think has been helpful and straightforward and she also has the "right opinions". :rolleyes:

My only problem with that is that if someone can totally fool me it's Lommy. So I'm torn between feeling good about her and thinking whether I should suspect her even more because of this good feeling...

I'll take a break and come back with something to say about those people who have said less...

[A Little Green]

A little green man that had just been shoved in cleared his throat, straightened his little green hat, then after pondering on something for a while took it off and stood on it to make himself a dais of sorts. After clearing his throat again, he began a lecture.

"1. My apologies for not turning up sooner. I only decided to join this afternoon and it wasn't until now that I got to post since I had to read the rules, the admin thread, and the game thread itself. And now that I am here, I have nothing to say. :(

2. Then, some thoughts from what you guys have posted.

2.1.I might consider voting Legate or Roa toDay on these grounds.

*Diplomacy check: fumble, red alert!*

But I do hope I will find better candidates because both of them would be realassets to us if they are innocents and fighting wars between us as innocents would only play to the hands of the wolves. If we had an actual lynch toDay I'd rather vote for someone not committed to the game though... the loudmouths tend to get caught as the game proggresses as the net of lies they have to weave breaks sooner or later.

*Diplomacy check: not good but getting an inch better*

We need to speak our minds here now and toDay even if it means voicing concerns about people we like to play with.
Is it just my imagination or do I see a contradiction here? When reading the first paragraph of that quote (the thing after the red alert), my first thought was "oh dear, so it's this same old thing, let's vote for the good, fluent, experienced players we personally like to play with". The second statement made me feel slightly better (and slightly less annoyed :p).
Overall, I don't quite know what to think about Nogrod. He is taking a leader role, and I am not sure whether I should be alarmed by it or not. Of course, I should lift my famous little green hat (from under my feet, as it happens) for the sake that someone finds so much to say about apparent nonsense. I'm (gut)feeling good about him right now.

2.2. Brinniel because the way she keeps pushing the unimportance of this day looks like a wolf who doesn't want to risk suspecting her fellows. Agan, could you clarify your point a little? Why would a wolf do that? The wolves don't know each other yet (if I understood the rules correctly and no big red magic blinded my little green eyes), so why should they be cautious about each other? Of course, if a wolf finds evidence of someone's guilt it's a different question entirely, but I very much doubt that could be achieved on this early a stage.

3. PS. This systems wants to split my ultralong word, even though it is on one line. Why? Lommy, well though I have no idea of the reason, it did the same for me with my title. Why on earth, I wonder, when it was no more than 61 letters!"

After his speech, the little green man stepped off his little green hat and put it back on his head, then drew out of his pack a little green apple and started peeling it with a little green chainsaw.

[Rikae]

I'm here - I've just been reading through the thread to catch up on things before posting.
An unusual aspect of this game that no one has yet mentioned is the fact that most of this group has something to hide. Usual methods wolf-spotting like searching for nervous defensiveness & extreme efforts for one's own survival could spell disaster in the event that they are adopted by the ordos on the trial days, required as they are to choose between a gifted and a wolf. Though gifteds can reveal, under pressure, at the last minute normally, buying themselves a day or two, that would be useless on a trial day. We will really have to fine-tune our tracking methods to distinguish between good and evil.

Even though I know more than a third of this crowd is up to no good, only one person clearly rings alarm bells for me at this point - Azaelia. She is too agreeable, too careful, and in response to suspicion, seems too worried by it. I'm going to make a mental note to watch her closely from this point onwards.
There is also something that makes me uneasy about Valier, but then again, there always is. As someone said last time around, she has a furry soul. :D

Oh, and one more thing, Nogrod: Macalaure & I are, of course, lovers, even though he isn't playing, and are going to plot against you and get you lynched. Mwahahaha!

[Rikae]

Looking at his first post from that point of view brings Mac's first post from the last game to my mind very vividly. There Mac was a wolf who didn't know who I am and tried to frame me from the beginning making outrageously fabricated zero-suspicions the whole content of his post. I realised he was a wolf from that. Funnily I was to be a lynched wolf of a competing team so nobody believed me in the beginning... :p


I have to say, in defense of Mac - he actually found you wolfish. He was certain you were evil, even though I kept telling him he didn't have any good evidence. :D

[Nogrod]

I'm not perfectly happy with Groin Redbeard's open agreement with both me and Lommy. Also his easy jump on Brinn looks a bit suspicious. But then again I'd be more than ready to grant him the benefit of doubt as this is his first game if I have it right.

I may disagree with Brinn about the reasonableness of the discussion toDay but I still find her more innocentish than wolvish. A wolf would more likely just quietly go with the silent flow and not try to openly prove how insignificant the Day0.0 is if you get what I mean. With Brinn I'm most uneasy with this sentence: Come Day 1, anything that happened toDay will have no real significance; we'll all be examining what occurred during Days 0.1-0.6.But don't you see Brinn that what happens during Days 0.1-0.7 are heavily influenced by what happens toDay? The more we speak toDay, the more openly we come forwards the more we can learn from this Day. Downplaying this Day only helps the wolves. I can argue that with length later but now I think I have more pressing things at hand.

The Ka is a hard one to me. There is a general air of innocence in there but maybe it's just that which nags me. The thing one could point at is that she seems to play like any decent werewolf: writing a lot (well that's relative but in this game she's one of the top posters anyway) without actually saying anything: so looking like being a contributing member of the village but at the same time hunkering down and laying low.

McCaber is another one I find it hard to read. His first post is not too bad (or too good either) but his second kind of makes me a bit worried - even if I know myself that my reasons to worry about it maybe pretty superficial. But look at this one more timeJust because I don't feel a need to say everything that crosses my mind doesn't mean I'm a wolf.But the point of there being a game in the first place requires people to speak and not parasitically to stand by and use other people's speeches to one's gain. I'd paraphrase his words a new with: Just because I don't talk much doesn't mean I'm an innocent. But still I'd count him among the possible innocents rather than the baddies. That's a gut thing once again.

Usual methods wolf-spotting like searching for nervous defensiveness & extreme efforts for one's own survival could spell disaster in the event that they are adopted by the ordos on the trial days, required as they are to choose between a gifted and a wolf.
...
We will really have to fine-tune our tracking methods to distinguish between good and evil.Good point Rikae. Something we should all consider.

Oh, and one more thing, Nogrod: Macalaure & I are, of course, lovers, even though he isn't playing, and are going to plot against you and get you lynched. Mwahahaha!How come this didn't come as any surprise? :D

Anyway, welcome all you newly thrown-in gladiators!

I'll continue with my monologue on people in a moment... *needs a cigarette*

[Nogrod]

He was certain you were evil, even though I kept telling him he didn't have any good evidence. :D:D The power of the guts? :D

[Naria]

I'm here! I forgot that everyone was able to speak toDay:o

I have read through all of the posts and nothing has popped out at me. Everyone seems to be in agreement with someone else and, so far, chatter has just gone in circles.

Oh and Nog...it's not a tactic. It's a kind of ww disability for me. I have played for a couple of years now and still haven't figured out how to just talk and talk and talk. I will, however, in the next couple of hours try to "contribute" to this weird type of Day:rolleyes:

[Brinniel]

Okay, I've read through the last posts pretty fast, because I'm short on time..

The one who was eager to postpone yesterdays discussions. I think she just dosen't know who her fellow Were Wolves are, that's why she dosen't accuse anybody.
I never said I wasn't going to accuse anyone; I just haven't gotten there yet!

But as I said before, I can understand why the majority want us to make a vote...it is nice to see how people stand early on. I even partly agree that perhaps some sort of accusations should be made. But...I just don't think anything done toDay will be particularly useful in the long run. But hey like I said, please do prove me wrong. Maybe I'll even end up proving myself wrong. (Me, wrong? Those who know me from previous games know it's not unlikely). :rolleyes:

I guess one of my concerns is that people will be so caught up with events that occurred toDay, they won't notice later and more important clues that are right in front of their faces. It's happened before...where people are so concerned with one thing they are blinded by another. Am I making any sense here? I get the feeling I may not be...

Okay, the only person who has really caught my eye is Lommy. Usually she seems very innocent to me, but right now I feel she's only giving the appearance of being helpful...which is how a manipulative and louder wolf will act. I'm just getting some bad vibes from her...

I would continue on, but I have to go now and I'm not sure I'll be back before deadline. But if I were to make a vote, I think she'd be the best option. (Do I really need to make the official vote mark since it's not for a lynch? :confused: )

So tell me, if I were to change my mind about her in the future, will you guys be calling that wolfish? I can see the reason why you would...but it'd just be a very typical move to accuse anyone (not just me) for that reason...but I think it would be a bad idea. The wolves could easily manipulate us to base our suspicions on Day 0, and like I said, all of us innocents would be blinded by everything else. I'm out of time...sorry. I'll be back if I can...

[Nogrod]

I guess one of my concerns is that people will be so caught up with events that occurred toDay, they won't notice later and more important clues that are right in front of their faces. It's happened before...where people are so concerned with one thing they are blinded by another.
...
The wolves could easily manipulate us to base our suspicions on Day 0, and like I said, all of us innocents would be blinded by everything else.I'm not so concerned about this one. What I'm afraid of is that we will have very quiet and shallow trials where no one has anything to say. I mean if normal Day1's are hard and sometimes quite random - and where it's hard to come up with anything worth saying - so how would a Day1 with only three players be?

Why should anyone base their suspicions only on Day0.0 after the trials are over? That would be stupid. And remember, this Day might go bad for the wolves as you said yourself they don't know each other. They might be the ones who'd wish this Day never occured...

[Isabellkya]

Hiii. Just a short post to say that I am here. Luckily we had ice this morning, otherwise I wouldn't be here for a number of hours.

*catches up on happenings*

[A Little Green]

Just a little (green) postie before I go and eat some (not little nor green) food.

I guess one of my concerns is that people will be so caught up with events that occurred toDay, they won't notice later and more important clues that are right in front of their faces. It's happened before...where people are so concerned with one thing they are blinded by another. Am I making any sense here? I get the feeling I may not be... I think you most definitely are making sense, or else I don't grasp your meaning correctly. I have no new suspicions, I just wanted to say what I forgot in my last post and what I think Brinniel means with her statement here.

I find it troublesome (though possibly inevitable) that the one "lynched" and also those suspected today will be facing heavier suspicion in the trials, which in itself is not troublesome of course, but the point of the whole day 0. However, without hardly any basis at all, today's suspicions can be, and most likely are, quite random. Those suspected today might get a suspicious air in the trials just because they were voted, whatever the motives of the voters may be and however furry their posts really were. Now if this is making any sense then I must lift the little green hat for myself. :p

EDIT: x-ed with Nogrod and Isabellkya

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

But as I said before, I can understand why the majority want us to make a vote...it is nice to see how people stand early on. I even partly agree that perhaps some sort of accusations should be made. But...I just don't think anything done toDay will be particularly useful in the long run. But hey like I said, please do prove me wrong.
Well, as I said before, and some repeated that, the point of all people voting toDay is clear. The wolves don't know who the other wolves are. Let's say I'm a wolf and vote for the Might. Later, I find out that the Might is also a fellow wolf. I may of course continue my suspicion and slowly drop it (or at least weaken it), or even quickly drop it (which would cause immediate suspicion), or I may decide to keep the suspicion and eventually choose to sacrifice the Might in order to keep myself distanced from him. This method is not bulletproof, but with a good deal of luck it can bring valuable results. And if all of us don't vote, the possibility of evidence it offers cannot be even brought up. Or we can simply say (and the wolves who vote will surely agree) that all who did not vote on Day 1 should be lynched because only a wolf sees advantage in not voting on Day 1. Therefore, I say we all should vote toDay, or: if you are an innocent, vote, because otherwise it may happen that all wolves vote and then they say: "Ha, you, you did not vote, let's lynch you!" And it's only your bad decision that lead you to this bad situation.

Though I disagree with Brinn on her pessimistic view, from her post #44 I am inclined to judge her as innocentish.

But, in order to add some so called "Lommy-flipflopping", I must say I think I always suspect her, whether she's innocent or guilty... (last time, mind you, she was actually guilty)
That was not necessary to add. I have a vague idea where to put Lommy, but comments like this make me a little more aware.

Rikae brings a good point about the Gifteds, I thought this thing was not necessary to be said aloud, but maybe it's better if people who did not realise it in the first place can think about it as well.

Aganzir looks normal this far. What does that mean? Nothing, as one Cobbler (one of many) recently said, she is capable of being a very unsuspicious wolf. Nevertheless, this far okay.

I don't get what everyone has with Azalia, maybe I have not played with her to know her, but her playing style does not raise any alarms. But, thinking of it, yes, how should I notice any difference in her behavior when I never met her before.

Little Green also looks ok, not like when she was playing the last time and were a wolf :p

I'm not perfectly happy with Groin Redbeard's open agreement with both me and Lommy.
Yup, I noticed something similar. Groin, though he is just finding his way in the arena, seems too quick to side with some strong players - a thing a newbie wolf (the more with no prior discussion and advices from his older mates!) could do.

EDIT: x-ed with Nog, Isa and LG

[The Might]

Aha, just found a post in the Admin thread I somehow missed and so now I know how it works.

So... it is really not important who you vote toDay right?
While I can on hand see how a vote could help us perhaps find a culprit I don't think it's the same a vote where someone will be lynched as there is nothing at stake.
So... I can't really say who is suspicious since it is easy for wolves to defend themselves as they don't have to try and defend any others from their pack.

Now, my own thoughts to this loud/quiet thing.
I must admit that in my first WWs I did always consider quiets more suspicious and louds rather helpful then furry and I still stick to this, but this doesn't really matter that much to me anymore.

I know myself there can be many reasons why a player is simply not able to say much on the first Day and so I'm not going to concentrate too much on it all.

Btw, you know what just came to my mind?
After all the twists and turns last WW I think we might be seeing something similar here as well.
I mean, after all the wolves don't do anything, nor do the gifteds.
My humble theory is that we were all made innocents (that somehow makes it much harder to see any wolvishness in one's playing style) and that the roles really will only be PMed later before the first Day begins.
Don't know if Volo is capable of such evil deeds ;), but it seems to be an interesting idea...

[Rikae]

I just wanted to mention one more thing before getting on with boring RL matters – it seems as though the majority here are of the opinion that voting now will give useful evidence later on, but this notion strikes me as nonsensical and useless. Votes haven't ever been an accurate indicator of people's actual suspicions, I'm afraid – it is only the role of the lynched person being revealed which makes them significant. Voting now only offers the wolves an easy way to appear innocent by "voting" those who genuinely look evil to them without risk of actually getting anyone evil lynched.
It is far more helpful to simply list suspicions - and the reasons behind them - at this point.

EDIT: X'd with Green, Legate & Might

[Nogrod]

Shasta has been his usual self I'd say - even if his style of popping in to say hello and to vanish immediately after that kind of annoys me (sorry Shasta, nothing personal as it's just a question of a playing style). So nothing unusual there but after the Days go by he might prove a problem if he doesn't post more. Anyway I'd say innocentish this far.

Menel the pessimist is a questionmark to me as well. There is sense in his words even if I disagree with a lot in there. But then again he's an experienced player. Although I might say he looks less lynchable than he usually does... :) I don't know what to say of it.

The Might is even more an enigma. He clearly was not understanding the game-mechanics or the timelines but then his weird theory in his last post does confuse one even more... making one think he might be innocent in the end. Or a very bold wolf. So innocentish I'd say.


Many people to comment on and not too much time... Maybe I'll go for impressions after this as there might be some live-discussions here to take part in? Let's see.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Rikae, read what I replied to Brinniel in the post above. It is not about who is "lynched" today, but for whom everyone votes. Now that we don't lynch anyone, everyone can vote really whom they genuinely think the most suspicious. And the wolves, of course, might do whatever they want, and end up the way I illustrated in my post above.

EDIT: x-ed with Nogrod

[Nogrod]

I'd disagree with some of the things Rikae said here.

Voting is a big symbolic gesture. We innocents can do it wholeheartedly as we ponder who of the people looks suspicious. Some of us will be dead after the trials so this is our last chance to try and help others.
Voting now only offers the wolves an easy way to appear innocent by "voting" those who genuinely look evil to themI do not think that if someone votes toDay s/he's an innocent. But if the lonely and isolated wolves vote genuinely toDay for those who appear wolvish we have lots of nice data afterwards (they might have noticed something we didn't)... and if they try to fool us by voting for someone who is not actually suspicious they would have to come up with very far-fetched theories to explain their votes indeed. And those can be spotted.

So do vote people! And give your reasons!

[Meneltarmacil]

I would tend to agree that today's votes, if any, will not reveal anything, due to the fact that there's no reason to worry about who gets lynched and what that will mean. There's no pressure on anyone to vote, no desperate attempts to free a fellow wolf from the noose, etc. here. It's the same as merely stating suspicions of someone.

[Aganzir]

2.2. Agan, could you clarify your point a little? Why would a wolf do that? The wolves don't know each other yet (if I understood the rules correctly and no big red magic blinded my little green eyes), so why should they be cautious about each other? Of course, if a wolf finds evidence of someone's guilt it's a different question entirely, but I very much doubt that could be achieved on this early a stage.
The wolves don't know who will be their fellows, but surely they don't want to lose any of them (in the trials or later). So the "best" a wolf can do is to try to avoid suspecting people in general - who knows if their suspects really are wolves and lynched because their fellow began suspecting them? Also, it'll be very uncomfortable for a wolf if they suspect other wolves vocally know. What will they do when they learn to know one another? Just change their mind: "I have reconsidered this and am sure that my previous top suspect is actually innocent."

So that's why I think it's a nice tactic for a lone wolf to downplay the importance of this day, and that's why I think everyone should speak and suspect. I don't believe that all wolves are doing that (or that all who do that are wolves), but I can't see it being anything but useful if we discuss as much as possible now. Does it make more sense now?

I suppose that means they'll be in the arena together on the seventh day?
Probably so. And I guess it's safe to say even now that one of them is a wolf.

I don't think we have enough from anyone yet to form a solid opinion.
And we will never have enough information unless someone is the first one to start the actual playing.

Aganzir- not sure I like that already he thinks Roa an Ordo...unwise Roa is very cunning and it is not good to underestimate her so early on.
Sorry, but I don't understand this. Firstly, the wolves don't know one another. Secondly, I didn't even reach a conclusion when I spoke about Roa! I can understand if you say I don't sit right with you, but I just can't understand that reasoning.

Something about the trials: It will not be wise to concentrate only on your group of three then (I hope this is something everybody has realised, but I think it's good to say aloud, just in case). And we can also make this harder for the wolves. They get to know one another only on night 1, and if people don't post about others than their pre-day fellows before that, it'll be too easy for a wolf to say then: "I changed my mind while seeing what he said/did on his pre-day" about a fellow. So if we force them to comment on others before they know their fellows, it'll be less likely that they can change their opinion about them later and get away with it.
I hope I make sense although I'm not too sure about it.

edit: xed since Rikae

[Nogrod]

Go Agan go!

I'm lifting you to join Lommy with my "not suspecting too much right now" -category. You're speaking plain sense and make good points.

I had some bad felings about your first post to be sure but this one made me rethink your position. I know you could pull that kind of trick to be sure but I'd hate to vote for someone who makes such a lot of sense.

Also I'm a bit baffled why people think Zali's suspicious... Maybe I need to take a closer look on her before the Day ends (less than an hour).

And where is Naria? She promised to come back and I'm truly waiting for her to reappear as I tend to fear her almost as much as I fear Kath (who has not popped in either). :eek:

And if I have it right Sally hasn't shown her face either, or Gil-Galad...

[Groin Redbeard]

Here's my two cents on the players

Thinlomien- Somewhat of a quiet helpful character. She provides the best insight.

McCaber- Mysteriously quiet. I don't like the way he argued against voting on the first day.

Meneltarmacil- He hasn't posted much, but when he does it seems that he tries to dampen the debate.

A Little Green- Have no opinion yet.

Brinniel- I'm satisfied with the explanation she gives. I still go with my gut feeling anyway and say that she's a wolf.

Nogrod- The loudest and most helpful of the players.

Azaelia of Willowbottom- She seemed to be somewhat of a scapegoat for the rest of the players for a little while. I'm still uneasy about her silence.

The Might- No opinion yet.

Legate of Amon Lanc- As usual, I am just a tad uneasy with him, but I think Legate is a good egg.

Valier- I think dosen't trust anyone. This could be because she dosen't know who her fellow Were Wolves are, or just the sign of an experienced player.;)

THE Ka- Very difficult the way she plays the innocent one minute and suspects people the next. I don't have an opinion yet.

[Thinlómien]

I'm back and I must say we should mark our votes, even as they don't count.

I haven't expressed any suspicion because it's just the first day. If this is not just misfortunate phrasing, it's a very suspicious statement. And I'm, truth be told, annoyed with her making no statements of suspicion at all during Day1. What if we all acted like that?

I have already said that while I'm not throwing today away completely, I do not want to base any opinions on today alone. It must be a personal style thing. I'm not a fan of the finger-pointing that happens on Day 1s. I'm actually not a fan of Day 1s in general. I don't think we have enough from anyone yet to form a solid opinion.What? Excuse me, but who actually is saying that any opinions should be based on toDay's posts alone? That would be utter folly. I really really don't understand Zali and I'm afraid her logic seems somewhat wolfy.

My only problem with that is that if someone can totally fool me it's Lommy.Like in Gil's game? :rolleyes: :p

Is it just my imagination or do I see a contradiction here? When reading the first paragraph of that quote (the thing after the red alert), my first thought was "oh dear, so it's this same old thing, let's vote for the good, fluent, experienced players we personally like to play with". The second statement made me feel slightly better (and slightly less annoyed ). What? Do you really mean that people like Nogrod tend to vote smart & experienced ones he likes to play with? For it's the contrary.

Overall, I don't quite know what to think about Nogrod. He is taking a leader role, and I am not sure whether I should be alarmed by it or not.I don't have any clear image of him yet either, but if you're alarmed with him trying to take the leadership, well, I can tell you that he always does that, regardless of his role.

I'm not perfectly happy with Groin Redbeard's open agreement with both me and Lommy. Also his easy jump on Brinn looks a bit suspicious. But then again I'd be more than ready to grant him the benefit of doubt as this is his first game if I have it right.I'm not perfectly happy either - though not because it looks wolvish to me, but because if he is innocent (like I'd currently be inclined to believe), I fear he might be easily lead. Groin, don't take the opinions or advice of the more experinced without chewing it first - I did that in my first game and well, I'm very glad those two I almost blindly listened to were gifteds. But not every newbie has such luck.

I guess one of my concerns is that people will be so caught up with events that occurred toDay, they won't notice later and more important clues that are right in front of their faces. It's happened before...where people are so concerned with one thing they are blinded by another.Yes, yes, but I fail to see how it applies to this game especially...

I'd like to repeat something I've said before. Today, more and especially less accurate suspicion is flying around and some wolves might be out there that have chosen as their tactic trying to manipulate us. So, whatever we do toDay, we must read and ponder everything said toDay very carefully and critically before our trials. And in the trials, we should definitely not focus only on those who have posted or whose actions have been discussed toDay.

EDIT: mass xed with everything after Green's latest post

[The Might]

What is really so weird about the theory?
Would be an interesting idea, wouldn't it?

Anyway, as I'm off eating and afterwards have some stupid German homework to do I'll go ahead and vote now.

Anyway, I personally choose Nogrod, simply because I really don't like his playing style.
Seems to always enjoy speaking of "we innocents" and also seems to rather make up reasons to accuse many.

So, if I had to vote at this point I would say
++ Nogrod

I know he is the loudest, but I really don't like all this noise he's making and I will take a good look at thim as the game progresses.

[Nogrod]

About Zali then. She seems to be consistent in what she says.

What I find a bit suspicious is her non-commitment to say anything even about the importance of Day 0.0. She kind of walks around the subject looking like she tries to be in good terms with everyone. "Day1's are not my favourites but this time it might be important even if I'm not going to count too much on it..." etc. (that was not a direct quote but kind of a shorthand of what she has said)

A Little Green looks pretty good and Rikae has brought in a few really good points. So that means Izzy is the wolf among them? Maybe I'm not ready to draw that conclusion just yet... But I'd like to hear more from her.

EDIT: X'd with Lommy & Might

[Rikae]

I really don't believe how many players actually expect to see wolves taking back “suspicions” they voiced today in any obvious manner on Day 1. The wolf has, especially considering their (more likely than not) large numbers, more to gain eventually than to lose by going after the others in an honest way. Of all people, really, Nogrod should not be talking to us about wolves protecting one another!
Seriously, I fear that all this talk of the usefulness of votes to catch wolves whochange their opinions later is being fueled, at least in part, by those with evil intent as a way of setting up easy lynches from day 1 onwards. Of course people will change their opinions down the road, but I doubt any of the wolves would be foolish enough to do so in an obvious way - and they may be as likely to pursue their suspicions for each other anyway. It is entirely possible for two players to feud for an entire game while everyone else considers them both innocent.
I'm not sure what to make of it, but I don't like hearing such usually sensible people as Nogrod, Aganzir and Legate spouting such clearly incomplete advice.
While I'm airing my opinions, I will say that I also dislike TM's "I'm an ordo!" ploy (that is, his wacky theory that all are innocent.) Although I'll admit that Volo is capable of anything, this simply doesn't look honest to me.
Menel is actually the only player who is really giving an "innocentish" vibe to me.
If I'm to be pitted against Green and Izzy, I would certainly like to see more from the latter before the day closes.

Well, my vote then - for what it's worth:

++Azaelia

Because she is, as I said earlier, both too agreeable and too defensive. It is the fatal combination between fear for one's own survival but seeming lack of concern for uncovering the truth - not a good combination. I also reserve the right to change my mind whenever I see fit. ;)

EDIT: X'd with Lommy, TM & Noggie

[Nogrod]

seems to rather make up reasons to accuse many.Thank's for your vote! :D

I think this just illustrates the reasons why some people back away from the bussiness we need to do. But we should brave these realities where people who try get voted.

Trying not to see or say anything on Day 0.0 is the worst thing we can do. Sorry Might but we need to get the ball rolling. And the ball will not get rolling unless someone throws it.

[Nogrod]

The wolf has, especially considering their (more likely than not) large numbers, more to gain eventually than to lose by going after the others in an honest way. Of all people, really, Nogrod should not be talking to us about wolves protecting one another! :D
But really. I'm not sure if the wolves will feel they gain from a situation where they have managed to honestly reveal each other's ways of trying to look good on Day0.0! On the contrary I think it would be quite a nasty situation for them.

Well sadly there's only a few people who have actually voiced any suspicion at all and thence there is nothing too much to read.

Seriously, I fear that all this talk of the usefulness of votes to catch wolves whochange their opinions later is being fueled, at least in part, by those with evil intent as a way of setting up easy lynches from day 1 onwards. Of course people will change their opinions down the road, but I doubt any of the wolves would be foolish enough to do so in an obvious way - and they may be as likely to pursue their suspicions for each other anyway. It is entirely possible for two players to feud for an entire game while everyone else considers them both innocent.It is entirely possible but not common that those rivals last for long. But you may be right with there possibly being a wolf among those who drive for voting toDay (we should not release anyone just because s/he speaks sense toDay). A bold wolf that is who wishes to take her/his chances by the classical wolf-tactics of speaking against her/his own good in public and thus looking good indeed. But yet again I'd trust the judgement of the people here not to fall into "easy lynches" on grounds of Day 0.0 alone.

[Isabellkya]

Saying you're going to vote for non-voters, seems to me, to be a bit on the path of laying ground for future manipulative endeavors, Nogrod. Today is a free vote day, we can do whatever we like with our vote (if we so choose to do so); reading too much into any votes made today, can and will lead only to folly.

Wolves are dangerous regardless of loud/quiet.. a dead wolf is a dead wolf, much more preferable than scratching at the door, readying to maul us. Yet there is a line between naturally quiet, and too quiet. I don't think any of us have the ability to snag thoughts out of others' minds.. so it does help to say words and thoughts. But lynching people based on how vocal they are.. is a bit rubbish.

Sorry.. skimming everything so I can get a post or two in before deadline.. which is just shy of twenty minutes, I think?


X'd with everything after my last post (#69).

[A Little Green]

1. The wolves don't know who will be their fellows, but surely they don't want to lose any of them (in the trials or later). So the "best" a wolf can do is to try to avoid suspecting people in general - who knows if their suspects really are wolves and lynched because their fellow began suspecting them? Also, it'll be very uncomfortable for a wolf if they suspect other wolves vocally know. What will they do when they learn to know one another? Just change their mind: "I have reconsidered this and am sure that my previous top suspect is actually innocent."

So that's why I think it's a nice tactic for a lone wolf to downplay the importance of this day, and that's why I think everyone should speak and suspect. I don't believe that all wolves are doing that (or that all who do that are wolves), but I can't see it being anything but useful if we discuss as much as possible now. Does it make more sense now? Thanks, I think I got the point. Even though that seems to my little green eyes as a somewhat predictable tactic.

2. What? Do you really mean that people like Nogrod tend to vote smart & experienced ones he likes to play with? For it's the contrary.
Of course I didn't, I thought you of all people knew that I've never played with Noggie-Woggie before. It was not about him in particular but rather a more general statement.

3. Eek, I suppose I should suspect. I have not really voiced my suspicions today (possibly because I don't have much of those at the moment). So.

3.1. Groin. His behaviour at some points (not all the time, thankfully) reminds me of my first game ever as a wolf. But then, I have no clear notion of how a first-timer ordo behaves, so I wouldn't like to throw too much suspicion on him as yet.

3.2. Noggins. Just too difficult. If he's like that in all of his games, well, then I am inclined to trust my guts about him.

3.3. Azaelia. Actually, it took me a while to realise who was this Zali everyone was talking about. :D She does seem weird, but not overwhelmingly so.

4. Aargh I'm running out of time, so a hasty little (green) vote:

++Groin

Bah.

[Aganzir]

Aiee, I didn't realise the deadline is so near.

I take back some of my suspicion about Lommy after her last post. But if I have time I'll look through her posts quickly and elaborate on why I suspect her in the first place.

Who strikes me as suspicious at the moment is Groin. I know he's a newbie and therefore suspicious behaviour doesn't necessarily indicate guilt, but anyway.
Brinniel- I'm satisfied with the explanation she gives. I still go with my gut feeling anyway and say that she's a wolf.
One of my favourite ways of wolf hunting is reading not only what but how people post. I won't start explaining what my Finnish teacher has told about the reader position (I'm not sure if that's the word, or even a word at all. Anyway, I'm speaking about the perspective from which one automatically views everything s/he reads & writes). And I think the way that was written is suspicious; "Your reply was good, but I don't want to give up suspecting you because I don't suspect anyone else."
Nogrod- The loudest and most helpful of the players.
I recognise there the way I always try to please and be in good terms with players I am afraid of when I'm a wolf. Which, of course, isn't what every wolf does, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a newbie wolf doing that.

Ok, and at the moment I feel like suspecting a newbie because of newbieishness.

edit: xed with Noggy, Isabell, Greenie

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I would like to add, and warn, that although toDay's votes (if there will be enough :rolleyes: ) do not have a value for themselves, but their main importance will show up after the trial days (I see the term I used found its ground quite nicely :) ). So, I say there should not be much suspicions based on toDay's votes on the Days 0.1-0.7, quite the contrary, misusing it may prove dangerous, but after the village is together again, those of the wolves who survive will be confronted with the need to modify their opinions (at least some of them, probably, and more of them, hopefully). And then there is the time to look at toDay's votes and say: look, this and this person did this and this.

So now I am to vote, eh? Well, Nogrod's later posts look better to me, though there are some strange things (but lesser ones, like the unnecessary use of the word "we" in the sentence "we innocents..." - he could have said that without the "we"; and also the abundance of :D smileys in his latter posts). The next candidate would be Menel, but I know him being suspicious always, but he's the second waiting in line. But, if this were to be a real vote, with the hope to lynch the person I cast my vote to, I would say rather

++Nogrod

[Roa_Aoife]

WOOT! Made it!

Alright, firstly, to those that think I'm being overly agreeable- please take into account that I haven't played in a while and am re-aclimating to the game. It may take a little bit. Also, given my history of getting everyone angry at me, I'm trying to be more mellow this game. Also, I made an attempt at stirring a good discussion with my comment about wolvish strategy, but it mostly went ignored, so what can I do?

Anyways, my suspicion of Menel stands, and has only increased.

My suspicion of the Ka has lessened a little, but not much. I hope to see more from her though.

Agan, for the record I don't advocate trusting me, ever. Doing doesn't necessarily make you suspicious, but if your a wolf trying to gain an ally, try someone else.

There are a few others that I find suspicious, but I need time confirm, and I'm afraid if I say anything they'll avoid it.

I don't have time for more (sorry folks) so for now

++MENEL

[THE Ka]

Yay, more people have arrived. :)

I have some extra time inbetween classes and resume sending today so I thought I'd check in.

Whether Lommy is a wolf or whatever she may be, I'd like to say thank you for post #49. Mainly because I'm trying to scan as quickly as I can and add that to the other piles of theories. Thanks, it helps. A lot for lazy brains like mine.

I guess one of my concerns is that people will be so caught up with events that occurred toDay, they won't notice later and more important clues that are right in front of their faces. It's happened before...where people are so concerned with one thing they are blinded by another. Am I making any sense here?

Yes, some sense. I think things are starting to come forth a bit more. I was kind of put off by the consistent loud vs. quiet arguement, which probably if put in a RL context would be a bunch of people yelling back and forth. Sorry, I find it kind of annoying once a theory has been beaten out over and over again. It doesn't let others, ordinary or possible wolves speak when there's only one arguement going round, and it doesn't make much progress. Except the progress of knowing that loud vs. quiet is an arguement. :rolleyes:
Which, I am glad more people have come by and contributed. If all else, it won't flop the trial days like a flan in a cuboard.

With that in mind, I did suspect Roa for a little bit, by either the use of repeated arguement and anything else at disposal. Then, I figured that would be way too easy a move for anyone, especially wolves.
By throwing everyone into their respective corners of standing, is blalant a move. Or, it is also a good one, since it seems too easy as a form of suicide for anyone, thus others nod it off as good trickery (can I use that, or am I writing like Joyce again?). So for now, I don't have much to make any conviction about Roa or other loud/quiet ones in the earlier 'loud vs. quiet' arguement. So, for now I can say I don't have much to make any logic deduction.

The wolves don't know who will be their fellows, but surely they don't want to lose any of them (in the trials or later).

Very true, but that is also for specials and ordinaries as well. Obviously the wolves, no matter how large a number there is of them in this game, they need as many as possible to make any great effect. So, whatever anyone throws out they can decide to go with or against. Examples of this are especially arguements about playing style. Diversions like that, when they're dragged on and on, are wonderful for a wolf.

I guess the same can be said about specials, except maybe the need for preserving themselves is an even dire effort. This is because, unlike the wolves, the specials are in different groups with different roles, etc. Whether they are counterproductive to each others' groups can be true, but specials even in larger amounts can be at a great disadventage by the way and number of votes in their direction.

Maybe even at a greater disadvantage is ordinaries, on certain trial days, and by who they vote for. If you're an ordinary, you necessarily don't wish to attract too much suspicious attention, and you definately don't want your vote to end up taking out another of your group or a special who can benefit you. So, in a way I can see why some players are especially cautious about their votes just yet, survival wise when you don't know the role of any other it makes sense.

So if we force them to comment on others before they know their fellows, it'll be less likely that they can change their opinion about them later and get away with it.


Be careful about that, wolves really only want to appear as ordinaries at the most, and if they have a head on their shoulders they'll definately go with the most cavaliering and pious crowd, but try to make sure that their response is as unique as it is deemed 'appropriate' saying,
"Oh I agree, but have you looked at this? No?! Well, if it isn't too much to explain, you might kill me anyways, but here's my contribution to the cause..."

If you give them a 'hero', they'll write you a tragedy.

Now, any ordinary knowing their end coming might say the same thing, so that is why it is tricky. Of course though, we always need to remember people will randomly bring back their character's personality at times to keep things varied for the sake of writing.

I have to end my post at this, since I have some phone calls/RL things to finish up for now.

I have a stupid question first though, since I keep seeing people mention it on and off. I thought we were not supposed to know whom else we have a trial day with/tell others for very simple reasons? Sorry if this is stupid, but I just wished to ask since I haven't seen the discussion page today, just PM's I recieved.

~ Ka

[Roa_Aoife]

And Nogrod, if it's you, me, and Lommy, may heaven help us. But I don't think that's how it will be, if it's really one of each a Day.

[Thinlómien]

I'm somewhat concerned about how much I and Nogrod agree. Surely, the fact that he thinks like me might imply he is innocent, but he could be a sneaky wolf as well. I'll be paying extra attention to him.

++ROA

If there actually was a lynch, I wouldn't vote her, but now I can, for she actually seems (by a slight mariginal) the most suspicious.

Brinn, Menel and Zali still seem suspicious to me, mainly because of their wolvish approach to things, but I'd rather vote Roa, for in her case, at least, I know it's not the difference in the way of thinking that causes my suspicion.

I'm slightly suspicious of Legate as well, but I acknowledge that it's just a gut-feeling.

I think Agan raised a very good point on that people should comment the previous trial Days in their trial Day and I second her suggestion.

EDIT: xed with everybody after Greenie

[Volo]

Deadline

[Nogrod]

lynching people based on how vocal they are.. is a bit rubbish.I do agree. But in a long run the silent people turn from assets to threats. That's the way it is.

Okay my vote then:

++ Legate

He's the only one I have something like a "case" on.

In an actual voting I might have voted differently though as I'd hate to lose a contributing player like he is just on these grounds. In a normal game I'd liked to see more of his posting to decide.

Others that look somewhat suspicious to me:
The Ka: Writing a lot to look committed but not saying anything (careful werewolf -tactics)
Zali: Yes, that's too defencive and roundabout to raise eyebrows
Roa: Too agreeable
Groin: Even if a newcomer his list of suspicions looks like he tried to build it up to look good as the general air seemed to be that we should say something about others.

An uneasy feeling I get from:
Naria & Kath: I always fear them and there's only one post from Naria to count...

Am totally baffled about:
Shasta, Sally & Gil-Galad: Are you playing guys?
The Might: I just don't get your reasoning...
Valier: Enigma, as always.
Menel: fifty-fifty

Innocentish:
Brinn: I disagree with her but she feels innocent
Rikae: Talks sense (even if I disagree with a few things) and feels right.
Agan: Talks sense
Lommy: Feels innocent

Sorry. Time's up...

EDIT: X'd with everyone... but it was still 8.00PM :rolleyes:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I think the DL so near, yup, even I am sort of in stress, even though I knew when it will come. Created almost as good pre-DL tension as a "real" DL would. Anyway, hope to see the most of you again after the trials... good luck and let's hope there will be just a few, or no wolves at all... it's all in everyone's individual hands more than it was ever else...

[Aganzir]

++ Azaelia

She and Brinn are my top suspects right now, but I don't have time to go properly through their posts again. Her reaction to my suspicion was exaggerated.

edit: xed with the deadline. And didn't have time to read the posts from the last about five minutes either.

[Volo]

The first day in imprisoment was queter than expected. Much to the joy of the Wolves. The most significant events of the day included a physics lection by Legate the Ranger lvl. 17 and Nogrod the Dwarf from Nogrod (who was the first to wake from the revelation made by Sauron) trying to create something as subtle as a productive discussion with a sledge-hammer. Only Nogrod seemed to learn from Legate’s lesson, and he himself couldn’t manage to convince everybody that voting is a good idea. This day was a victory of the pessimists.

In the evening three more ships arrived and three more great warriors found themselves trapped in the golden temple. A Little Green Man mastered his fear of the Sun and Moon and his toes turning red and joined the discussion. So did Rikae the lover of retired Wolf Macalaure, who was living his life quite happily at his own private castle somewhere hidden in the mountains (he was, quite obviously, no longer a threat). Isabellkya joined the discussion last of the three and managed to stay away from the chaos that was slowly building.

It might be said that the three newcomers took the places of Sally, Kath and Gil-Galad who didn’t bother to say a word during the whole day. One answer to this might be that they were too busy sharpening their weapons, just like Ugh-Friedrich the host who was preparing speeches, being a host and all.

As the Sun came down completely (and ironically Nogrod would have been dead if this were any other day but today and to think that voting was his idea more than anyone's...), doors were opened into inner chambers of the temple, of for each of the warriors. None had to be asked twice (or even once) if they wanted to sleep. Insomnia didn’t keep a single person awake that night. Not even the Wolves, who were still too unorganized to go killing anybody.

---------~~

Ugh-Friedrich entered the balcony and took out his notes. The crowd cheered wildly and it made Ugh-Friedrich ajust his earplugs before he started to speak. A microphone was brought up to him by a slave.

”Welcome to the greatest event that has ever taken place on Númenor (which I would like to thank sincerely for sponsoring all of this)! It is awesome to see so many of you here today. I hope you’re having fun!” He lifted his brows and paused for a mere second. *YES* ”Just as I thought!

”As most of you know by now, the competitions will last 15 battle-filled days. The first stage has seven days in it. Three gladiators will fight to one’s death. That means that seven will die. The next stage will also last seven days and seven more will die then. The last, and most interesting part will be the 15th day of the event when all the seven remaining warriors will be sent to battle at the same time. Only one will stand alive after that. And it will be the first Man-” *DWARF!* ”- or Dwarf-” *WOMAN* ”- yes, yes, or woman (although Man does include woman, you know…) to ever be blessed by immortality. For that is indeed the one and only prize here!” Pause. ”Immortality!” *loads of clapping and shouting*

”Today three mighty warriors will fight!” Pause. ”One shall die.” Pause. ”Two shall live.” Pause. ”Will it be that one of them will become immortal?” Pause. ”They risk their lives to-”
”Get on with it!” somebody shouted from the audince.
Ugh-Friedrich felt his knees tremble as he was distracted from his notes. ”Ummm….” He began. ”Oh yes: Legate of Amon Lanc! Meneltarmacil the Mooseslayer! Valier of 27 Mysteries!”

---------~~

Alive:
Brinniel
THE Ka
Shastanis Althereduin
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
McCaber
Nogrod
Legate of Amon Lanc
The Might
Thinlómien
Valier
Groin Redbeard
Meneltarmacil
Kath
Gil-Galad
Roa_Aoife
Naria
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Isabellkya
Rikae
A Little Green
Ugh-Friedrich (host)

---------~~

Day0.0 ended, Day0.1 began.

Legate, Menel and Valier may post and vote (for eachother). Others sit in silence.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Look ye, look ye, I haven't in fact done anything against the rules by posting after the DL, as I can actually post now! Yeah!

So Menel and Valier, huh? Good. Will read their posts right now before they show up. Ha-looo, anyone around here?

Legate of Amon Lanc threw his long Elven cloak over his shoulder. With canny eyes, he watched the two figures facing him. His right hand grasped the finely carved long bow, while his left hand reached for a single silver arrow in his quiver. "I could use Manyshot or Rapid Shot," he thought, "but it gives an attack penalty and moreover, one of them may be a good Gifted. One arrow would have to suffice."

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate looked at all the other warriors standing in a circle around the three today's fighters. He smiled and shook his head. "I can guess what you are thinking about," he thought. "I know it must be unusually funny to be here and look at us, at me - yes, I know you do - whilst knowing exactly the same thing awaits you, some sooner, some later. Yes, I know you'll try to learn. I have no doubts about it. But first..." he turned his head back to the Ranger in black and the Mooseman.

"A few question first, my opponents," Legate said, rising up his left arm. The silver arrowhead gleamed in the sun. "Before I choose at whom I aim my deadly shot - and I can assure you that if I hit a Werewolf, it will be a deadly shot, as these monsters are my favoured enemies since level 5, which makes it +4 on weapon damage rolls; and I know you basic sample werewolves have just about 2 HD - I would like to know why you did some things you did yesterday - oh, this looks like the longest day ever! So:

Meneltarmacil, your very first post, your post #19. Have you read the posts that were posted before or not, by the time you were writing it?

And Valier:
The first day is for the most part pretty random, but think with the vote not really counting today, it gives the evil doers among us a way to minipulate us with their votes . Seeing as most things today can be argued later as being first day not knowinness.
Not sure if I got it right, but can you outline how you imagine a wolf could manipulate with his vote later? An example would be the best.

Please answer these questions to me. Also, you can ask me whatever you wish. The advantage of the three of us being here together makes it much more clear for orientation. When are you going to be around? I am going to be here still at least for quarter an hour now, maybe later, but then I will appear only in the morning, i.e. between 7 and 9 AM GMT.

"At least one good thing," Legate thought, "I had the luck to get two of the less vocal people, so I don't have to go through pages of records. Or is it luck? We'll see." He looked sideways at the audience and attempted to hide a grin. "I pity those of you who have people with thousands of words to analyse..." Then he realised that this includes even himself and started to laugh.

[Meneltarmacil]

Admittedly, I had only glanced over the posts before I started and still haven't fully read everything from the last "day."

A few things I did notice, though:
-Nogrod, strangely enough, seemed to want people to start putting pressure on others, voicing suspicions, etc.
-McCaber started acting unusually friendly toward me after I mentioned that a loud wolf was more dangerous than a quiet one, thanking me for allowing him to remain silent when he had nothing to say.

[Valier]

well hello you two...of all the two...one quiet, one loud.:rolleyes:
This should be an interesting day. Ok so now down to it. which one of you is furry and which one isn't. That is the question.



Not sure if I got it right, but can you outline how you imagine a wolf could manipulate with his vote later? An example would be the best.

hmmm let's see, I don't and didn't quite mean manipulate, though I used the word. I just mean that by having a vote on the first day, without it counting, could perhaps muddle people up in later days(as I know it would with me if others went by day 0.

Ok let me stop for a second and see if I can make this, make sense.... Ok let's say I was a wolf (which I'm not, seriously) Yesterday it would have been pretty easy to say whatever I wished, since no one was to be killed. and everything I said that may incriminate me that day later on, I could dismiss as a day that "didn't count" just as every other day one except the voting was not necessary.
Did that answer your question Legate? If not please do let me know.

Now as I was writing this I was thinking it kinda weird that I was just answered your question without hesitation, which is a bit out of character for me. But the thing is today is like our own little game of ww. Normally I would question you for questioning me and think you suspicious, but today what else is there? I was thinking along the same lines as you Legate as to how to approach this day, and I thought why not be specific and ask questions.
So this being a wholly different day, and us being the first to try our hand at it your question does not surprise me. This makes me for the moment leaning towards you as being innocent or Gifted (I'm not telling) because you had the same reaction and thoughts as I do. but that could in itself be a furry plot.

Now this bring us to Menel...Oh Menel, I always suspect you and at the same time don't because well you are so dang quiet. When you do post, sorry to say they always seem...no offense weird. I know you can be an effective wolf, because of your elusiveness and your long ww history. But a lot of the time I suspected you, I was wrong. I hope to hear a fair amount from you today, please do contribute so we can get a grasp on each other.

I will be around for the majority of the day. I don't work tomorrow, so let us set the standard for the days to come.

[Valier]

I cross-posted with Menel just now


HUH???? Why are you concern now what McCaber and Nogrod had to say? It is just us three in this battle.

[Meneltarmacil]

Oh, sorry. I guess we can only choose between the three of us, then? Well, in that case I'll go back and read what you've both had to say thus far, not that I think it likely that the early game chat will reveal much.

[Valier]

Hellllooooo(echoes) sure is quiet with three people. Guess I got to make up the talking for us, for now. It seems as well that Legate you are asleep for most of the time that I am on, and Menel I'm not sure of his schedule.

I've read through the posts from yesterday, and frankly there isn't much to go on. Menel mostly said how useless yesterday was and not much else. Legate had his hand in everything having posted a large amount of times. Quite helpful. Menel not so much so..

This is hard to make a decision with nothing to go on.
Menel do you have anything to say or add to the mix? You need to prove us with something about what you are thinking.

I'm going to see if there are some things I can ask you guys that may help me choose. Back to reading. If I don't get back on tonight I will for sure be on tomorrow for hours before deadline.

[Valier]

Just reading through before bed and this caught my eye.

Between the two of them, however, I'd say a loud wolf is more dangerous than a quiet wolf due to its ability to affect votes, unless it's an inept loud wolf, in which case it ends up as a Fenris.

Makes me think he is saying" Don't look at the quiet ones as wolves look to the loud ones." which is perfect if he in fact is a quiet wolf, hoping to slip through.

*Taps foot*

having a conversation with myself is a little strange....hope to have something to read when I get up.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well yes, I think these Days will be somewhat monologic at certain times... anyway, from now on, I will be mostly around till DL, so no worry.

What to think now? Thank you both for answering my questions, anyway. What I collected is that Menel obviously did not read what was posted before, which only makes sense. I was referring to the fact that in your first post, you said:
To be honest, I don't know that there's anything we can really do toDay that would really matter. There aren't going to be votes, so there won't be anybody trying to persuade villagers to vote for others. (...) If there's anything that could make a good talking point, I'm all ears, though.
While Nogrod before (and me as well, and others) discussed, and indeed, even "pushed" already the idea of people voting.

That of course does not move us anywhere, as this makes perfect sense and in Menel's case, basing suspicions on the fact that he does not read what others said won't be adequate. One could maybe think a Wolf Menel will be more careful and read the thread first. But if he were a Wolf and actually believed in what he said yesterDay (which I don't have problem with believing he does), he as well may not have read the thread carefully. Hm.

Now Valier, yes, what you said also answers my question. Valier... however good overall her posts may seem to me, there are a few things that make me wary.
Now as I was writing this I was thinking it kinda weird that I was just answered your question without hesitation, which is a bit out of character for me. But the thing is today is like our own little game of ww. Normally I would question you for questioning me and think you suspicious, but today what else is there?
For example, why to say this? One idea I got was that it could say "Menel, look, Legate is doing a suspicious thing. - But Legate, of course, noo, I am not suspecting you." Actually, on more points Valier is flip-floppy in the way of "come-bite-back away". Hm.

So, I am leaving now (again) for a shorter time, I'll be back in about four hours, and then I'll be around for the rest of the Day to immediately react to both of you if you appear. Later...

[Meneltarmacil]

A few thoughts for the Day:

-Valier hasn't posted enough for me to really get a handle on what she thinks.

-Legate was behaving rather strangely earlier. He throws his support behind Nogrod's voting idea, with good arguments to match... and then attacks Nogrod for trying to be too helpful, without posting a lot of reasoning for his choice beyond that. This doesn't look good.

Of the two, I'd be more inclined to suspect Legate, but I'd rather hear more from Valier first.

[Valier]

For example, why to say this? One idea I got was that it could say "Menel, look, Legate is doing a suspicious thing. - But Legate, of course, noo, I am not suspecting you." Actually, on more points Valier is flip-floppy in the way of "come-bite-back away". Hm.

Not quite sure what your getting at...My reason for that comment is simple. I am normally not so talkative and would question someone who questions me. But today is different, I must talk. There is no one else that I can sit back read and analyze like I normally do. I always have a difficult time expressing what I think and feel, so this time I was writing what I was thinking at the time, hoping this would give more insight as to how I think and feel. This could be seen as flip-floppy, but there is always a way to see the good points and bad points of a person. My mind at the moment IS a little flip-floppy.

Menel, what else do you want of me? I think I have posted at least a wee bit, giving something to think about. Your posts are not helping. Why do you think Legate is more suspicious? Legate where do you stand?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Right now, if you want me to be honest, I am worried. As probably all of us are, but one for a different reason than the remaining two. I must confess that I hoped to provoke some reaction from you, Valier, where you would slip, in case you are a Wolf. Nothing like that occured. I was inclined to trust you more than Menel, but the problem with him is that he is always silent as grave and does not even realise that he is, so one cannot get too clear view of him.

Menel, one question.
and then attacks Nogrod for trying to be too helpful, without posting a lot of reasoning for his choice beyond that. This doesn't look good.
Do you realise that attacking Nogrod yesterDay has only very little in-game value? I mean, as a wolf, I would not achieve anything by accusing him, first, there was no lynch yesterDay, so my suspicion could have at maximum brought him under spotlight when the remaining two are dueling him, but second, I could not even have known if he is not a fellow wolf, in which way I would be ruining the victory for myself.

I am around now, so hoping to see Menel post as well, and then we'll see...

[Valier]

Your comment Legate above is what I was talking about about using yesterday as a way to "manipulate" the later voting. The coin always has two sides. One you can say you would never do something because it would not benefit you as a wolf, and on the other side as a wolf you could say you would never do it, then do it, just to confuse others. Does this make sense?

Now the question is do I vote for the more "easier" candidate Menel, as there is not much to go on and he offers no good suspicions or discussions. Or do I go with the more innocent looking Legate, who seems to offer good discussions and has fair reasoning behind his suspicions. But sometimes what seems good and true on the surface, can indeed be furry beneath.

Still hoping to hear more from both of you....

[Meneltarmacil]

OK, basically, Legate, the reason your suspicion of Nogrod doesn't seem to make sense is that you seemed to agree with a lot of Nogrod's ideas, yet constantly felt you had to mention that he was suspicious. I couldn't find an explanation of why he was suspicious in your posts, except for a mention of him trying to hide behind a helpful idea.

What, specifically, did Nogrod do to make you suspect him?

Alas, my hunting skills are unlikely to help a lot here, given that my favored enemy is moose.

[Gil-Galad]

i am totally confused in this game right now... it is going to take me awhile to get my bearing so i will not be voting today...

(i got to re-read the rules because like i said, i am totally confused... great way to start a game...)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Your comment Legate above is what I was talking about about using yesterday as a way to "manipulate" the later voting. The coin always has two sides. One you can say you would never do something because it would not benefit you as a wolf, and on the other side as a wolf you could say you would never do it, then do it, just to confuse others. Does this make sense?
Oh yes, I understand.

What I was saying concerning the suspicions created yesterDay is that they won't come into effect until Day 1 when all the folks are together again. And that's a long time. For innocent people, yesterDay was the moment when they could post their honest suspicions, without the fear that if they take a bad step, they immediately seal the person's fate. For a Wolf, intentionally constructing suspicion against someone did not bring immediate results and it would only make people focus on him for fabricating a case. And what worse, he could have fabricated a case against a fellow wolf. Yes, everything is possible, but it would take a very bold wolf to risk that much.

Menel, good to see you here. Well, I said it at the beginning - I just had the feeling that there is something bad about Nogrod. I could have picked a person I think suspicious the most, and I chose Nogrod, because he was posting a lot with slightly over-cheerful tone at times (I believe I mentioned this aspect in some post of mine), and while I agreed with his idea of making people vote, he had this stance even before the game started (so he could not have changed his opinion even if he wanted to), and so he could have turned it to his advantage as a wolf. The overall behavior of his, just the way he behaved, made me think that he may rather be pretending to be helpful than really trying to be helpful. So that was the basis of my suspicion against him.

[Valier]

I see what you are saying Legate. That makes sense.

Gil-Galad, reread the rules. there is only 3 warriors who post today.

[Valier]

Alas, my hunting skills are unlikely to help a lot here, given that my favored enemy is moose.

I am but a Ranger. But I'm afraid Moose hunter no matter what your wordly powers, you must find another way to help out in this battle.

[Valier]

Menel you are awfully quiet...even more than usual? Your last post to me sounds a bit like you've given up already.

[Valier]

hour and a bit left..... are you both going to leave it till the last?

I'm still thinking this through myself. but in the end, I'm afraid my gut may have to do the job for me if I don't hear more.

[Meneltarmacil]

I'm still here; that last comment was just an in-character thing.

Anyhow, I suppose it's possible that Legate was legitimately suspicious of Nogrod, given that Nogrod would have had to set his idea in motion regardless of what he was.

As for what I might want from you, Valier, I couldn't find much in your posts that would shed any light on what your role might be, just mild suspicions here and there without much else. You could either be a villager in the dark about things, or a wolf pretending to be a villager, but there's nothing to suggest either one. The playing style here prevents the usual bandwagoning, vote-influencing, and such, and so I don't have any patterns from you to analyze yet. In short, I'm not sure there's much I can do.

So do we have a loud, confusing, influential wolf trying to stay close to Nogrod's ideas while keeping a discrete distance from the man himself, or is the wolf just trying to pass itself off as an in-the-dark villager and hope nobody notices? I'll review the posts some more and get back to you on that.

[Valier]

So do we have a loud, confusing, influential wolf trying to stay close to Nogrod's ideas while keeping a discrete distance from the man himself, or is the wolf just trying to pass itself off as an in-the-dark villager and hope nobody notices?

Now you know exactly how I feel about you two.:rolleyes:

[Meneltarmacil]

OK, I might as well start the voting. I've given my reasons why either one could be a wolf, and can't decide between them. However, Valier's behavior is fairly reminiscent of your typical Day One poster (could be a wolf trying to stay under the radar though), while Legate's behavior is still a bit of an issue.

I'd say a Legate-wolf is more dangerous than a Valier-wolf, though, so

++Legate of Amon Lanc

[Meneltarmacil]

Oh, and Valier, you're now in a position to cast the deciding vote. If you vote for Legate, he's dead due to having a 2/3 majority. If you vote for me, Legate will also vote for me to save his skin, so I'm dead then.

[Valier]

Oh, and Valier, you're now in a position to cast the deciding vote. If you vote for Legate, he's dead due to having a 2/3 majority. If you vote for me, Legate will also vote for me to save his skin, so I'm dead then.

Don't put pressure on me or nothing....:rolleyes: sigh

[Meneltarmacil]

Wait a second. A third possibility occurred to me. If Legate is in fact a Wolf, he may be bold enough to vote for you and cause a triple lynch. Of course, he'd be dead, but it would also guarantee that both an innocent and a Gifted would die. With the wolves accounting for a third of us, they might be more willing to try suicidal tactics.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Triple lynches are not allowed. If we all vote for another, there will be a random choice of a lynch.

Wait a minute.

[Meneltarmacil]

Wait. If you vote for me and Legate the Werewolf doesn't even vote, he'll kill two innocents without killing himself, three if we count the death overNight. Grrr, the possibilities...

EDIT: Cross-posted with Legate

[Valier]

Well I think leting the vote go to a randomizer is a cowardly way to end this battle. I don't like the idea of someone not voting either...

[Valier]

he'll kill two innocents without killing himself, three if we count the death overNight.

I'm not 100% sure but I don't think there is any kills till stage 2. seeing as there is no nights in this stage of battle....strange

[Meneltarmacil]

Looking at the possibilities, I'd say who dies is still up to you, Valier. is almost certainly going to vote for me (he wouldn't vote for himself, and voting for you would just cause you to vote for him). So the second vote for either [B]Legate or me is going to have to come from you.

On the negative side, so much for "no pressure". On the postivie side, though, you aren't going to die.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Concerning the rules, as far as I know, there are no double nor triple lynches on this Stage.

Second. If Menel is a wolf, he knows we are both innocent. The best for him would be to side with the one of us who does not vote for him, if one of us does, or to side with one of us (up to his choice) if we vote for each other.
Casting a first vote with the pressure is starting the movement, thus, in this case, he would be totally dropping the idea of swaying me to believe him but relying on Valier to side with him.

If Valier is a wolf, Menel is just an innocent who made a mistake. It will be the best for her now to side with him, seal my fate and finish this. However, a careful wolf will wait, because quickly sealing another's fate will place him in the line on Day 1 and later.

EDIT: x-ed with Menel

[Valier]

Ok this is too much...the suspense of what you're going to do Legate, is maddning. There is too many possibilities...

I also think that a wolf Menel is less of a worry later on then a wolf Legate. If I'm wrong here today. I gotta go with my gut.

++Legate

[Valier]

cross posted with Legate

I guess that I am not a careful wolf, or wolf at all for that matter...nice one though Wolf Legate...;)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Looking at the possibilities, I'd say who dies is still up to you, Valier. is almost certainly going to vote for me (he wouldn't vote for himself, and voting for you would just cause you to vote for him). So the second vote for either [B]Legate or me is going to have to come from you.

No sure, Mr. Menel. You could still have retracted and vote for Valier if I did (and if you were innocent). However the formulation of your words makes me think now quite much that you are a wolf betting all on one card.

Okay, now Valier has also cast her vote. Hmm... Okay. Wait a minute.

[Valier]

there is no vote retractions Legate.

[Meneltarmacil]

Ooh, I guess I'm still not familiar with all the rules. I didn't think the votes were retractable.

EDIT: Cross-posted with Valier

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Yes, you are right, the votes are not retractable. My mistake. Well then, I guess it's over.

Just watch out then. You just lynched an innocent. Now, one thing, say just "yes" or "no". Do you want me to reveal my role to you? It means, among other things, that the role of the remaining innocent of you will be known also (I'm sure someone would think of it: the remaining one is the other than I am, i.e. if I say I am an ordo, he's a gifted, if I say I'm gifted, he's ordo). If I reveal, the innocent of you will know that I said the truth, for he is the other thing than what I say. But don't say anything to it, just whether I should say it or not. Yes or no?

[Valier]

what matter does it make Legate? You could be lying about your role. Since your role will not be reveled to us at all I believe.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I know. But at least the one remaining person of you who is innocent will know I did not lie. Were I a wolf, I have 50% chance of saying the wrong thing. The innocent person will know I lied if I said I am ordo/gifted and he were the same thing.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Nothing, uh? Okay. I should say some last words...

Don't worry, we have not lost yet.

Don't worry, I was not the Seer.

Don't worry, I was not the Ranger.

(or how they are called here)

Be wary, one of these two folks is a Wolf. Here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=543694&postcount=131) are the possibilities, somewhat summed up. If Valier was a wolf, there was no chance to save me at the moment Menel voted me, for she won't be risking enough to vote him and thus leave it to random. This makes me think it might have been indeed her who is a wolf, because she was not sure whether I'm not going to vote her and this way she sealed my fate. Or who knows. Please check carefully and form your own opinons on what I am saying, I don't want to cause more harm than good.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

For future clarification, I said I'm not the Seer nor the Ranger so that you know they are still out there somewhere. Maybe I am one of the remaining Gifted, maybe I'm an Ordo. I don't want to say it explicitely so that I don't reveal the role of the remaining person who is innocent - Menel or Valier.

Good luck (more than I had). Have fun. Goodbye.

Sorry, x-ed, must have been a second :(

[Volo]

The competition started out well. All three had loads of experience from dealing with Werewolves. One was a renowned Hunter and the other two famous Rangers. At first the three circled each other carefully without raising their arms.

The true elf-wannabe Legate reached for a single silver arrow in his quiver. "I could use Manyshot or Rapid Shot," he thought, "but it gives an attack penalty and moreover, one of them may be a good Gifted. One arrow would have to suffice."

Menel noted this and slowly grasped for his slingshot made out of flexible moose skin. Even now Menel took pride in killing this very moose with his bare hands, by holding the moose’s mouth shut for so long that it died of starvation. He glanced at Legate but decided that Nogrod and McCaber were more dangerous and started searching them with his gaze.

That gave a moment for Valier, the oddly manly woman from the North to lift her own bow . ”This is going to be interesting,” she thought, but mysteriously said, ” I will be around for the majority of the day. I don't work tomorrow, so let us set the standard for the days to come.” As the other two looked at her with mistrust she added, ”It is just us three in this battle, don’t concern yourself with anybody else now.”

Since Menel had lost his balance in the very beginning and his position looked fatal, the pressure slowly closed on him. He took out his sword and tried a thrust at Legate, who quickly made a dodge check, succeeded and retreated a bit. Legate would have tried his Rapid Shot if suddenly Gil-Galad hadn’t jumped in front of him. ”Back off!” shouted Valier in alarm, ”don’t get into the way. I’m trying to find the trace of a Wolf here! Moosehunter, by the way, why do you hunt mooses in the first place, isn’t it what the wolves do?”

Menel put his sword away and began telling his tale. ”I don’t remember much about my childhood but I do know that my parents were killed by a monster moose. I was but a baby then and he tried to kill me as well. But by strage chance I didn’t die. It was hard, living alone in the forest and hiding from the evil moose cult. I grew older and through the school that the forest had to offer found out more about surviving. It was on my 11th birthday, when the Star of the Moose shone bright, that my arch-nemesis, the Weremoose of Sorontil, finally found me again. It was at that moment that I knew that my parents hadn’t died by drinking tainted water and that it wasn’t just a birthmark on my brow, but an evil scar.

”He tried killing me again and I couldn’t have done anything to avoid it. I think I fainted from the pain my scar caused. When I awoke, I saw the Star of the Moose flying at me. I was so beautiful that I felt as if I had become a tree that had roots deep in the ground. It stopped there, thirty feet from me, in the middle of the glade and just shone bright. I had never seen a star like it! The Moose Star was cresent shaped. It looked at, no, through me. I know it sounds odd, but I knew that it was exactly that what happened. Then it started talking!

”It said, ’You are the boy who lived’, and then, ’you are also a Hunter’. I managed to crawl closer to it and saw that the Star held a helmet of wonder. It shone as the britest sun. The Star said, ’This is the Helm of War made from Sorontil’s Moose’s twinbrother’s, Tilnosor’s, antlers. With this you shall defeat the Weremoose! Good luck and thanks for all the fish!’ The star flew away and left me holding the Helm in my hands”.

Menel took off his helm and under it was a great red scar in the shape of antlers. He looked old, but also great and majestic. ”This is the Helm, and this is the Scar. I finally killed the evil Moose of Sorontil when I was 17. Heck, I wasn’t even a real Hunter back then… From that moment I pledged myself to the Star to be its champion in ridding the world of those vile creatures, mooses. For the Star also spoke to me so, ’One day you will be a star yourself, for the free Men of Middle-earth. You shall be called by the greatest of Kings to enter a contest of strength in the middle of the Sea. Do so, for you shall acquire something that will help you rid the world of Evil for ever’. So it spoke and now I know what it meant! And because of that-”

He revealed his sword and jumped at the male Ranger. *dice roll: Dodge check: miss* The thrust hit Legate’s side and he stumbled. *dice roll: Diplomacy check: miss* ”I wish you no harm. Exept that I must kill one of you to obtain immortality, but I don’t mean it badly. Hey, come on, be fair! Valier vote Menel so I have better chances of winning!”

”I also think that a wolf Menel is less of a worry later on then a wolf Legate. Nice one though Wolf Legate” cried Valier, quickly tracked down her sword and thrust it deep into Legate’s gut. ”Done!”

Legate fell to the ground shaking violently. He caughed blood and cursed in Noldorin. Menel and Valier stepped closer to him and put the tips of their swords at Legate’s throat, they were both smiling broadly. Suddenly, the eyes of the dying Ranger turned red and began shining. Baffled, the Hunter and the Ranger backed off. Legate stood up with great care. He whiped his mouth with his sleeve and stared at the two with his horrid shining eyes.

A booming voice filled the temple. It was Legate’s, but much deeper and he didn’t have his mouth open. ”I am no Wolf! Neither am I a Man! I am an Elf! An immortal superior being! You may not- you can not kill me! Nobody can kill me for I a have absolute power!” *dice roll: Regain health check: [the die rolled around for a few very intense seconds and then… It stopped on 21!] Valar-like!* Legate’s wounds closed themselves and he grew taller. ”Muahahaha! See what I mean!” *dice roll: teleport: Valar-like!*

And with a blinding flash of red light he was gone.

------~~

The next day was quite the same, although the audience had doubled and Ugh-Friedrich held such a touching speech that nobody could remember what he actually said. It did contain the names of McCaber, Naria and Roa Aoife.

---------~~

Around:
Brinniel
THE Ka
Shastanis Althereduin
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
McCaber
Nogrod
The Might
Thinlómien
Valier
Groin Redbeard
Meneltarmacil
Kath
Gil-Galad
Roa_Aoife
Naria
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Isabellkya
Rikae
A Little Green
Ugh-Friedrich (host)

Gone:
Legate of Amon Lanc - lynched on Day0.1 - teleported away

---------~~

Day0.1 ended, Day0.2 began.

McCaber, Naria and Roa may post and vote (for eachother). Others sit in silence.

[Roa_Aoife]

The glare of the sun, the roar of the crowd, and the scent of dried blood flooded Roa’s senses as she stepped into the arena. A chill ran over her skin. The outcome of the last battle had been unexpected, and it left her with heavy thoughts. Still, she catalogued it away, knowing that she could nothing about it if she didn’t survive the battle before her. She drew her swords and pointed one at each of her opponents. One of them was a demon in disguise, and one was as innocent as she. If at all possible she wanted to kill beast, for who knew when they would come to kill the survivors? She carefully watched her opponents and turned her mind to the only clues currently available- their very words on that first day.

Poor Legate, if he was what he says. That would mean an innocent (possible gifted) was lynched because the two others agreed on the logic that he would more dangerous as a wolf than either of them. See what a lack of discussion causes? Had either Menel or Valier been more active in the beginning, the day may have gone much differently. Which, of course, could have been the plan all along.

On the other hand, he could have been lying. He was rather vague at the end. A wolf wouldn’t benefit much from that, except to draw suspicion onto Menel and Valier. Or he could have been a Counselor.

Still, it doesn’t matter now.

I’ll be back in a moment with analysis on Naria and McCaber. Eru help me, I look to be in the same position as Legate.

Also, I may have to vote early- a holiday is coming up, and that means every place where I can gain internet acess will be closed, and the cable guy won't show up till after the end of this day. So, here's hoping there's more to go on than Day 1 before that time, because I really don't want to make this decision on such little information.

[McCaber]

Let's get this Day started. So it's me, Naria, and Roa. As a man in a similar situation once said, "Let's dance."

Now I've some posts to read and study. I'll tell you what I think of them when I'm done.

EDIT: x'd with Roa

[McCaber]

Initial thoughts: Roa looks alright at first glance. But as others have said, she just seems too agreeable. That could be a wolf trying to make early allies, or just an innocent trying not to attract too much attention.

Naria simply hasn't spoken enough for me to form an opinion. So naturally I suspect her.

I know I have been pretty much silent for the game, but I had to make a last minute journey which kept me away for most of Day 0. (I had to drop the deer hides off at the tanner. Seriously.) I hope you don't hold that against me.

[Naria]

*jumps up and down*"Oooo I get to play with Roa...McCaber is new, but oooo I get to play with Roa!!!" Naria Whats'erface calmed herself and pushed some hair out of her face and smoothed out her dress.

Ahh ok. I don't really want to speculate too much on what transpired earlier this Day, but I think Menel and Valier may have caught a wolf...judging by Legate's last posts. Like I said though, purely speculation. At any rate we need to focus on eachother this time. I'm afraid that I won't be of too much help right away. I have to work in...ohhh geez right away!! I'll be back in about 9hours. *Hears a weird noise vaguely familiar to sand paper rubbing against eachother and looks over to see Roa grinding her teeth at Naria*:D

[Roa_Aoife]

Please correct me if I’ve misinterpreted something.

McCaber Analysis- Initial

1st – Doesn’t see a reason to throw out suspicions so early in the day, says Nogrod’s vocalness could work against him, as Valier and Groin’s quietness could work against them, but currently suspects Ka and Legate, for monologues and dice rolls, says we shouldn’t put much stock in this

Right off the bat I find it odd that he says he doesn’t see a reason to suspect people, and then lays out his suspicions of people. Then there’s the contradiction of Nogrod’s loudness being a tool along with Valier and Groin’s quietness. The wording is odd, but I can’t figure out why.

2nd – Thanks Menel for saying that loud wolves are more dangerous than quiet wolves, says he doesn’t like to share every thought that crosses his mind.

Is he saying this because he’s new and didn’t know what to do? Or is it because he’s a wolf and was hoping someone else would point away from his general direction? Also, people who keep ideas and thoughts to themselves don’t help the village- they hinder it. If you think something is suspicious, point it out for the rest of us. Stir discussion so that we have something to talk about, and so we can catch the wolves in their lies. Maybe not every single thought is necessary, but more than one or two would be better.

And… that’s it. McCaber, why didn’t you return? You threw out some admittedly poor suspicions, complained about people picking on the quiet ones, and then disappeared.


Naria Analysis- Initial

1st – Says she forgot we could speak on that day, nothing suspicious jumps out at her, chatter is just going in circles, says she’s really unable to make long or numerous posts, will attempt further comment

Okay, I almost didn’t realize we could speak on Day 0.0, so I can believe that Naria forgot. Other than that, this post is really bland. Nothing is suspicious, there’s nothing to argue against, and she’s bad at being talkative. And that’s all from Naria. Wher did you go? Did you form any suspicions? Why didn’t you make further comment?

With only this, McCaber has more wolfish behavior than Naria, but that’s only because Naria’s one post said little to nothing. It feels almost un fair to vote for him just because Naria didn’t really say anything wolfish, or really, anything at all. What a dilemma….

Edit: Cross-posted. Glad to see everyone's here. *grin* I'm looking forward to it too, Naria.

[Roa_Aoife]

Menel, I explained my agreeableness in my last post of Day 0.0. Please go look there, and if you find a problem with that explanation, question me. I don't feel like going over it again.

Naria, you're going? Oh no! I won't be here in 9 hours, and I won't be able to get back on after I leave. Now I really do have nothing to work with regarding you. This is not good.

[Roa_Aoife]

McCaber, not Menel... I'm so sorry. :o I guess I'm still thinking of the previous fight.

Anways, still there?

[Roa_Aoife]

I have to eat and run some errands. Please talk a little bit more. I don't want to make a decision on this alone.

[McCaber]

Oh, I'm here. I'm not saying I have a problem with your agreeablility, I just think it's something to think about.

And unforeseen RL reasons dragged me away. I thought I went through that.

I won't be here in 9 hours either. You're right about that not being good, Roa.

EDIT: crossed with Roa.

[Roa_Aoife]

Ah, I saw your post about the journey thing. I cross-posted with it.

Any other thoughts? I'll be back with in the hour I think, so please share.

[McCaber]

One thing - the reason I thanked Menel in my second post is this: I think a lot, from many different positions. If I said everything that crossed my mind, I would contradict myself twelve times from Tuesday. It probably would be held against me, and it leads to a premature death from either side.

Now, what we've all been waiting for - an analysis of Roa.

1. Introduction. Agrees with Nogrod on the importance of the Day, suspects Lommy, and wants actual content in posts.
2. Responds to Groin. A quote - "It's better to suspect many than to suspect none." Wise.
3. Points out that the wolves don't know each other, suspects Lommy, Ka, and Menel.
4. Both loud and quiet wolves are dangerous.
5. Updates to current tactics.
6. Tries to spark conversation.
7. Wonders why no one is talking
8. Says why Day 0 is important, doesn't want to face quiet people in the arena (heh heh).
9. Leaves for the night.
10. Comes back, defends herself, votes for Menel.
11. Small talk with Nogrod.
12. Starts the day, considers Legate's identity.
13. Analyzes Naria and myself. Suspects me.
14. An explanation and regret about Naria
15. Corrects my name (thank you, by the way. I was about to comment on that.)
16. Says she has to leave.
17. Leaves

There's a lot there to look at. Again, not very suspicious at first glance. She just seems more innocent or gifted than wolf. This would be a much easier choice if Naria gave us more content. As it is, I suspect Naria slightly more, but I would like more from her to look at.

[Roa_Aoife]

I'm back, and a thought occured to me whilst I was out and about.

This post is going to be a bit stream of consciousness.

So, nothing new. At this point, if nothing changes, I may have to vote McCaber simply because I have actual reasons to suspect him, rather than just not knowing anything, like Naria. On the other hand, if Naria is the wolf she will have made a very easy and neat escape....

I'm not going to vote Naria just because she could be more dangerous- that would be very poor reasoning. At the same time, voting McCaber just because he's around and Naria's not is also poor reasoning. But then, voting Naria just because she's not around is poor reasoning.

McCaber did somethings that seem suspicious to me, but what if it's just because he's new? Naria's lack of input or opinion is also suspicious, but if RL keeps her away then there's nothing to be done about it.

I'm thinking in circles. @_@ I'd flip a coin if I didn't believe so strongly in having a real reason for voting someone.

*sigh* McCaber, are you still around? any thoughts?

Edit: crossposted with McCaber, naturally.

[McCaber]

Roa, you do seem innocent to me at the moment. Remember that we still have a lot of time left before the deadline, so there's no need to get hasty. Naria still has to make a major appearance.

(I had a much longer post, but internet problems destroyed it. Cursed Windows.)

[Roa_Aoife]

The problem, McCaber, is that I won't be around when Naria makes her appearance, unless there's a miracle and I can finangle a few more hours here (unlikely) Even then, I won't be able to be around at the end of the day. In realilty, I have about 4-5 hours left before I have to vote.

Your posts today are making me think better of you, but like I said to Agan, if you're a wolf trying to curry favor by thinking I'm innocent, it won't work. However, you did answer my questions more or less.

And for those who are watching, I know at least one of you is saying "What? Roa never let's go once she's tasted blood!" I have this to say: It's true that once I start to form suspicions on someone I rarely let up. However, that has caught me more innocents than wolves, and on a day like today, with so much hanging in the balance, I can't afford that kind of a mistake.

Hence my distress at having to form an opinion on Naria with nothing to work with....

[McCaber]

I can sympathize with your time constraints. I remember having to spend twelve or fourteen hours a day at high school with all the activities I was in.

I'm really not into "currying favor," as you put it. If I tried it, it would come back to haunt me and I would probably die.

And thank you for being open-minded. I was nervous going into toDay. I still am, to a point, but I think I have a chance of surviving.

[Roa_Aoife]

Alright, I've made myself dizzy with circular thinking. Here's what I've come to:

McCaber did some suspicious looking things up front, but he's explained himself well, and right now he seems reasonable and well thought out. There's just one thing that I need to ask:

Why do you suspect Naria? You've mentioned a couple times that you find her suspicious, but the only thing I've got is that there's nothing there to look at.

[McCaber]

Why do you suspect Naria?

Out of us three, one of us is a werewolf. I cannot suspect myself, and I really don't suspect you right now. And Naria has given us nothing to look at. For me, it is a process of elimination.

[Roa_Aoife]

I see...

That's where my reasoning was going. I just had to check. At this point, I don't think you're a wolf, and I know I'm not. I'm not going to be here when Naria gets back, and staring at the computer isn't going to change anything.

I'm going to put this off as long as possible, just because I feel really uneasy about this choice. This match up just seems terribly unfair... Naria can't be here for the first half, and I can't be here for the second. McCaber looks like an innocent Newbie to me, but I can't help but feel that Naria deserves a chance to defend herself.

I think I've been away too long, all my old instincts just aren't coming back, and I can't find that confidence I used to have.

[Roa_Aoife]

Bad News! I have to leave now. Everything is closing early on base because of the Holiday.

I really hate that I have to do this now, but I guess there's nothing for it.

++Naria

Good luck to you both.

[McCaber]

Goodbye, Roa. I will hear Naria's arguments. It seems unfair to kill her now without really a chance to speak. Thank you.

[McCaber]

I just thought I'd take this time to announce my 100th post. For no particular reason. Just that I was bored.

I'd like to thank... oh, who am I kidding? You're all awesome, even though some (perhaps most, even) are out too kill me. You're welcome.

(What, am I not allowed to have fun in Werewolves? Sheesh! You guys are stricter than I thought.)

[Naria]

Ok I'm here. And I see Roa has made a serious mistake:( Roa since you won't be around and you McCaber said you won't be on, at least while i'm on, I guess I have no way of getting myself out of this lynch. The reason I say this is because I am able to post a little bit before I go to bed and then I work tomorrow morning, so I won't be around at all for the end discussion or deadline.

*sigh* for what it's worth, I'll go back and re-read what you two have said. I'll be back.....

[McCaber]

I'm still here, Naria. We can talk for a while, if you want.

[McCaber]

Alright, it seems I'm the only one here. I'm going to sleep, but I'll be back with plenty of time spare. It seems I'm the only one with no life here today.

[Naria]

I'm going to start with the first line of questioning from Roa and work up.

Quite honestly I had no suspicions. I wasn't about to throw around wild accusations with little or no reason for it. As for the comment thing, I already said that the quiet vs loud debate was going and Legate's push for voting didn't make any sense at all to me. I understand the need for people to post so there would be something to go back on during the stages, but everyone that was posting seemed to me to be going in circles with there arguments and points. I had nothing to add, simple as that.

Roa I don't believe for one second that you have lost your taste for blood and I certainly don't believe that bunk about losing your werewolfing mojo(hehe my word). You are one of the more talented players and because of this, I don't think it would take a whole lot of practice, if any, for you to get back into the swing of things.

but I think I have a chance of surviving.
Why's that? Ohhh I know because you found out I won't be around and realized Roa has sided with you even before her vote:rolleyes:

Out of us three, one of us is a werewolf. I cannot suspect myself, and I really don't suspect you right now. And Naria has given us nothing to look at. For me, it is a process of elimination.
Well that is some truly inspirational insight there McCaber/sarcasm. Can ya tell me why you don't suspect Roa? And please don't let it be "because Roa is making sense" blah blah. She is very good at this game and you are new...do you not think that maybe just maybe she would love to latch her claws into you making you think she's innocent?

That's where my reasoning was going. I just had to check.
Wait what?! Your reasoning is the same as McCaber's? I don't know Roa somethins up with you and I don't think it has anything to do with your lack of playing.

It seems unfair to kill her now without really a chance to speak.
Aww aren't you just a little sweety. *looks to the audience* Even though I'm talking now, who do you think is going to die? I'll give you three guesses; and the first two don't count.
McCaber you and Roa have buddied up(with a vote from her) and with you not being on right now and myself at work tomorrow...there is little doubt in my mind on the outcome here, but hey thanks for giving me the chance to speak.

Thank you.
Annnd this is what did it for me. What the heck are you thanking Roa for? Thanking her for being on with you? Thanking her for leaving? Orrr thanking her for her vote against me?

There is definitely something up with Roa, but I'm not sure if it's the hair on her back. Hmm I'll ponder for a little bit longer before I head off to bed.

[Naria]

Gahhh, sorry McCaber that took me alot longer to write up than I thought it was going to. Damn, now it really is just me and the wind.

[Naria]

I'm really tired right now and I still haven't decided who i'm going to vote for. So I'm going to set my alarm to get up a bit earlier and come on to see what's what before work. I will have to place at that time. G'night dear wind:D

[Naria]

I'm off to work

++Roa

Not a vengeful vote. There is something up with her and everything she is doing is not what a 'normal' Roa would do, I know she explained it, but that did very little to comfort me. McCaber isn't sitting right with me either mostly because of his over agreeability and thankfulness, but I guess I'm going to blame that on being new.

[McCaber]

So I'm left here, and I have to cast the deciding vote. Wonderful.

Give me some time. I'll be back before the end with a vote and a thought process.

[Volo]

The battle of the second day began with great anticipation. Yesterday’s combat was so exciting that the crowd doubled in quantity, or maybe even tripled. Much of this was due to Legate’s very odd perfermance. And then again to the fact that two of today’s contestants were known as ”Death”. And just about maybe because one of the warriors was twice as enigmatic as the two deaths put together. Naria. Naria Whats’erface.

Everybody didn’t even know if Naria was a Man. Some speculated that Naria was the Cabbage of Bloody Gore. Some said that he is an Ent with one wooden leg. Some said that she is the godess of bare feet. But most didn’t say anything, and barely speculated. And they were the lucky ones, since Naria turned out to be the most ordinary woman in a dress, with a rolling-pin in her hand. To the audience she did look intimidating, but the two other gladiators who got a better view knew that she was in fact eager and happy. "Oooo I get to play with Roa...McCaber is new, but oooo I get to play with Roa!!!" she shrieked.

Roa looked at Naria smugly. ”If you're a wolf trying to curry favor by asking me for an autograph, forget it. I’m not called the Red Death for naught”.

”Hmph! You may be the greatest assassin ever, but I don’t even take money with lives!” whispered the cloaked figure called McCaber.

”And who are you? Menel, was it?” Roa asked uninterestedly and with a quick wrist movement deflected a dagger coming at her heart. ”No? McCaber?”

”Hiiiii! McCaber, you’re good! I wish I knew more about you…” yelled Naria.

”Me too…” thought Roa, ”but for different reasons”.

McCaber threw off his cloak and underneath was a very, very… very basic looking person. ”So you have heard of me? Pity”. He looked at his leather shoes, twirled his right foot in the sand and scratched his neck. ”But since you have heard of me, what exactly do you know about me? Though I try to be secretive and all, truth to say, I’m very interested to see what people know about me”.

Roa who felt a bit disgusted, began with a politically correct ”Umm…”

Naria was on the other hand more straight forward and finished the sentence with a ”nothing…”

”Oh”, said the misunderstood killer, ”But you must know something! I mean, Roa, you knew my name and-”

”It was in my calendar on the kill-list for thise two weeks”.

”-and- ok, hey, know what? I’ll give you a hint”. He made a great show of taking a concealed black dagger from behind his ear. He held the dagger between his thumb and his middle finger and showed it to the two women. Naria shrugged and Roa rolled her eyes.

”You don’t get it? Hmph…” McCaber made a great show of walking to the edge of the arena and stopped in a place which the sun didn’t reach. Naria srugged again and Roa didn’t even bother to roll her eyes.

”Oh, come on… ’Shadowmaster’. ’The Black Knife’! ’Death’? Never heard of me?” his lips trembled and he wiped his eyes. With no more provocation he started screaming, ”Ooh don’t know Sauron’s greatest enemy! Don’t! What would I care! I’m sure that nobody, who has used the last 15 years of his life just to rid the land from the Great Enemy’s minions, would care. Nobody, who personally destroyed one of the major threats of the free world, such as the Brotherhood of the Eye, would give even the slightiest thought to whether people knew about him and appreciated what he is trying to achieve. No, of course no! Why woul-”

Roa shifted her footing and was already feeling so annoyed that she would begin a rant of her own if something didn’t stop McCaber. She looked at Naria who didn’t look any better and deffinitely more lost. ”At this point, I don't think he’s a wolf, and I know I'm not, which leaves you”. The Red Death streched and tried not to listen to McCaber, who hadn’t stopped, on the contrary he yelled only louder. She walked up to Naria and stabbed her with a sword.

”-and did you know – oh, I forgot, you don’t know anything – that I beat the chief of the National Haradric Blasphemy League with only a rook, two pawns and half a kingt, to death. I did! I swear I did-”

Naria looked at her torn dress and the sword still sticking in it. ”You know Roa, I’m actually a lot more slender than I look. It’s a pity you ruined my dress, it was very precious to me. I inherited it from my great-great-great-grandmother”. She banged Roa on the head with her rolling-pin. ”And this rolling-pin, I inherited it from my great-great-great-grandfather who was the greatest warrior of his time (and a well known feminist)”.

”-by the time I killed her 88 bodyguards, she managed to escape, but I was smarter. I had set a trap. As soon as she entered her carriage- Huh, is Roa dead?”

Two guesses.

You got it right.

Roa, whose head was split, had found that death wasn’t red like she expected it to be. It was of an odd mixture that might have contained shades of straw yellow, pearly white, aquamarine (with a touch of deep blue). Roa was baffled by this. For some reason she had always thought that death would be red. But now as she thought about it she saw less and less logic in her presumptions. There went a wave of mustard yellow, and oh, there a line silver! Roa looked at McCaber, who had finally finished his monologue, and Naria, who was eating a juicy pear. She wanted to say something although she, for the first time ever, had nothing to say. Everything was too self-evident to be said aloud. Then something caught her eye! The tiniest of tiniest of tiniest threads of blood red. Roa felt it dance doubtfully just in front of her, just at the other end of the world. Suddenly Roa knew what to say, it would be one of the wisest things ever said, ”Good luck, guys. I think I’ll be leaving now”, and it mattered little even if it was also the most self-evident thing ever said.

McCaber and Naria turned to look at her. McCaber lifted his hat and bowed and Naria waved.

Roa joined the dance with a smile.

-------~~

The third day of battle began.

-------~~

Around:
Brinniel
THE Ka
Shastanis Althereduin
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
McCaber
Nogrod
The Might
Thinlómien
Valier
Groin Redbeard
Meneltarmacil
Kath
Gil-Galad
Naria
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Isabellkya
Rikae
A Little Green
Ugh-Friedrich (host)

Gone:
Legate of Amon Lanc - lynched on Day0.1 - teleported away
Roa_Aoife - lynched on Day0.2 - joined the dance

---------~~

Day0.2 ended, Day0.3 began

Aganzir, Ka and Shasta may post and vote (for eachother). Others sit in silence.

[Volo]

Ugh-Friedrich shouted to anybody who cared to listen, "Aganzir wants to inform you that she is going to be away until midDay", and then muttered to himself, "And I though she was a he..."

[THE Ka]

Okay, no worries. :)

Just depends on what her mid-day is, hmm. Anyways, no worries about time.

Curious though, Shasta are you around?

*plays with lute of brutal honesty and waits*


~ Patient Ka

[Volo]

Just depends on what her mid-day is, hmm.
"MidDay, not midday. Although now that I think about it, it's probably midday and not actually midDay, which is after midDay by a few hours". Ugh-Friedrich was well known for his power of speculation. "But I do wonder if I'm allowed to sleep while I'm hosting the greatests event ever..."

[THE Ka]

"But I do wonder if I'm allowed to sleep while I'm hosting the greatests event ever..."


Of course.
I'm spending it eating toast and coffee with One Hundred Years of Solitude. Not literally though, thankfully, or I'd have to vote myself out...:rolleyes:

Thanks for the clarification, I meant the first mid-day this time. :)

Also thanks to Nogrod for his concern as well.


I don't believe I will be online when she comes (it will be 1am my time then), but I'll try to be on earlier in the morning, hopefully it will be enough.

~ Unusually Nice Today Ka

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm here, I'm here!

Although I chipped a claw climbing over the wall.

*washes himself* Huh. Agan won't be here for a while, meow, so why don't I take a look at you first, Ka. :)

[THE Ka]

Ah good. :) I was a bit worried for awhile, glad to see you've made it.

Hmph. This doesn't bode well since there isn't much to read about yourself fair Shasta.
*plucks lute of brutal honesty playfully*

Hmm, I am definately taking another look at Agan, since she did make some very good posts.

So, I guess off to the reader-response method that Agan mentioned earlier. Though, the distancing of the new criticism movement would help with using pragmaticism when reading others' posts. Well, I guess I am just off to reading then.


~ Ka

[Aganzir]

Sorry for coming this late. Fortunately, it seems I didn't miss much.

I would prefer not to lynch someone who's killed early almost every game.
I would prefer not to lynch someone I have never played with before.
And I'm happy to see that there are thus no off-game reasons that should affect my voting.

With you two my problem is that you look quite equally innocent. At least Ka. About Shasta it's rather difficult to say anything (I'm already missing your playing style in the phantom's game :().

I'll post soon with some real substance.

[Aganzir]

Honestly, I don't understand why Legate was lynched. To me, he was the most innocent-looking of them.
Menel said Valier hadn't posted enough for him to form an opinion about her and Legate was strange, and thus he was inclined to suspect him.
-Legate was behaving rather strangely earlier. He throws his support behind Nogrod's voting idea, with good arguments to match... and then attacks Nogrod for trying to be too helpful, without posting a lot of reasoning for his choice beyond that. This doesn't look good.
I fail to see what's strange with that. You can agree with someone but think he looks suspicious anyway.
I don't like the way Menel was after Legate all day. And I don't like either how Valier ended up voting him. The whole lynching was too easy. I believe the wolf is still alive.

I think McCaber was the most suspicious there yesterday. I considered Roa innocent as well, but he was really siding with her, and it's quite obvious that Naria would have died had he not failed to vote (which, I hope, he'll explain on Day 1).

**

I know these aren't of much use at the moment, but I'd like to hear your thoughts anyway. Or at least your thoughts about something, especially Shasta's.
I think I can tell that if I had to vote now, I'd vote Shasta - because Ka has been so much more constructive. (Why is it that I've recently taken into a habit of threatening him with a vote? :rolleyes:) But I'd hate to actually vote him with that reason, so please, Shasta, talk.

[Aganzir]

I'm not much into making analyses this early, with so little to go on, and it's pretty difficult to find any suspicious things with you. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm slightly wary about Ka's approach on Day 0. She didn't speak only a little, and mostly sense, but about rather irrelevant matters like the game dynamics. It would have been, and still would be, nice to hear a little more what she thinks about people.

And with Shasta there's absolutely nothing to go on.

There's this song by Current 93, named Twilight Twilight Nihil Nihil, and it seems to fit this day perfectly. :rolleyes:

[THE Ka]

Yay! Glad you are here.

I was weird and decided to wake up at 2am my time, but I had to go to sleep after an hour or so or I'd passout on the keyboard. Sorry.


It may take a little bit. Also, given my history of getting everyone angry at me, I'm trying to be more mellow this game. Also, I made an attempt at stirring a good discussion with my comment about wolvish strategy, but it mostly went ignored, so what can I do?
I just wished to point this out when we consider the playing taking place on the first trial day, especially since all three of them were seasoned players, but I can understand clearly trying to get back up to speed on the ever evolving ww game. Since, for example, I don’t know half the roles sometimes without reading them over and over again, thankfully this game Volo was nice enough to explain things to an old daft and sparse player.
Anyways, even if Roa was deciding to be mellow, I wouldn’t doubt her cleverness too easily because of this. Though, with the trial day she gave me more reason not to hold an over eager amount of suspicion about her. Others seemed inclined to suspect her on this account, but she clearly states the technical terms why. So, I don’t see this post as being one to ring bells of alarm.

As for Menel, I in some sense want to think he is just Ordo or gifted, and that he is just playing in his own style which sometimes might cause others to take what he jokes too seriously. Though, the pre-trial day of making the loud vs. quiet mini-argument (is there such a word? It wasn’t everyone’s argument though) suddenly the object of concern (even if it is to disband it) seems rather wolfish, since it is a good distraction. For that, I do have concern about the actions of Menel.

As for McCaber, I can see reasons why he would want to really, play it safe. Though, I’m not going to let the ‘newbie’ air cloud anything around him, since there have been first time players before who’ve really changed the course of the game, especially aided for better or worse, by the nodding off that ‘well, they’re just new’. Personally, when I think someone plays for the first time they might be new to werewolf, but I don’t think they are new to the concept of hiding and talking artfully, on any level of pragmatics. So, I am going to keep an eye out for him, just because I’m ‘nice’ and think he has far more to show just yet, and explain.

I don’t have much of an opinion on Legate just yet, but after reading his later posts, this especially stuck out for some reason:

The innocent person will know I lied if I said I am ordo/gifted and he were the same thing.

Which is true, but the innocent wouldn’t say it flat out. Plus, anyone could claim to be anything as of now, whether they knew another’s statement was true or not. It doesn’t mean the other person knows who they are.
This kind of bothered me a little, but I have far more suspicion on Menel at the moment than one little thing by Legate. Since, we all end up doing little things in werewolf that we look back on say, ‘Doh!’
As for the voting of Legate, that does have suspicion, but I think it might have been done to avoid as what happened the second day, plus there was a general rush to the vote. Which can be good if you’re a wolf and want an easy way out of things, then to just bandwagon and hide for the next six days going over things and what to say.

But I'd hate to actually vote him with that reason, so please, Shasta, talk.

And lastly, I really have to agree on this. Shasta, please if you could say anything it would help, just opinion wise. It doesn’t have to be a polished theory or anything, though it would be nice if you said something. I don’t see the reason in voting because of this, because if anything I would want to vote because of a reasonable logic.

I'm sorry about leaving now, but I have a class in the morning and I should be able to be back in about 2 1/2 hours or so, and maybe later on after that if there is enough time.
Sorry about this, it looks like our day's access was completely chopped up.

~ Ka

[Aganzir]

For those who will be in the same trial with Lommy...

Not much of what she has said this far has made me suspicious about her. But there's something in her posts that I very much dislike, though I really can't put my finger on it.

Ka has been all the time in character. It really makes her less suspicious to me. A wolf might be more concerned about her appearances. Yet, on the other hand, a wolf might count on that no one minds a little in-charactering at the start of the first day and use it as an excuse for saying nothing constructive...
I can see the sense of the statement - but it feels completely wrong. It feels like Lommy saw someone who was behaving suspiciously and turned it upside down. It resembles the way Legcobbler spoke in the last game. Or a Lommywolf who has seen a suspicious person and wants to defend her, hoping she's her fellow wolf. That's not the only time I get that feeling from her posts when she speaks about someone (eg. Groin in #81).

Roa seems to be acting a bit too harmonically with others to be her normal self - is she a wolf looking for possible allies?
The phrasing. Wrong. That's just wrong.

Her reaction to Azaelia in #81 looked quite genuine, though.

As a conclusion, Lommy bothers me more and more every time I read her posts, but I still can't elaborate it any better. Some fleeting glimpses, and the growing feeling that there's something wrong. Argh.

**

I just can't figure Ka out. She looks sensible, but I have no idea if she's innocent or not.

Anyway, I'll be leaving for a while again. Back before the deadline.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm not quite sure when the deadline is, and I'm going to be at work for the next five hours. I've been asleep and then in class for the past... twelve.

And Aganzir, you'll notice that I did try to change my playing style in the phantom's game, only to be the first wolf kill. Logic dictates that that is apparently a bad idea... :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm full aware that there's not a lot to go on (read: nothing) where I'm concerned, due to RL issues. (I have a lot of those lately....) I believe Volo said that the deadline was at 8:00 PM GMT, which I /think/ translates to 2:00 PM CST, meaning... an hour and a half?

[Aganzir]

About an hour and ten minutes from now, yes.

Don't give up so easily. The first game you behave differently the wolves might well think you're a gifted, but please.

[Aganzir]

Is either of you around?

To be honest, this feels quite frustrating. If Shasta doesn't post anything, I'll vote for him. If I can't tell which of you is the wolf, I rather save the one who contributes more.

[Aganzir]

++ Shasta

[THE Ka]

Yes, sorry.

I had to go rush and take care of something important for the moment.

Ugh, I wish I had more grounds to go on. I really don't want to vote this way, because Shasta, I understand how hard it is when RL things get in the way. Though, I really wished you could have posted more, about anything, earlier in the day before Agan came on and after. Sorry if it was pressuring or something, but I don't want to vote you out for RL issues at all, only because not posting much besides a hello or two kind of looks more suspicious than a slipped word or two, or strange reasoning. I think you probably could have posted something, and didn't have to give up too soon.

++Shasta


~ Ka

[Volo]

As the saying goes: You don’t need to be overly smart to survive, but you do need to be on the bright side to see others die.

In the morning a chilling wind blew from the North and some of the audience had to go home to get warmer coats. Not all, naturally, not all at all, since many had slaves that were sent to the streets. Those who did have to go themselves went and returned soon, to notice that their places had been taken by some poor buggers who had arrived too late to find places and had sense to dress warmly in the first place. Around midday the wind brought a heavy storm with thunder and lightning. It was good news to the people who had left for their warm coats. They rushed to collect their rain-cloaks and were at the Temple before the poor buggers who had the sense to dress warmly but not resistantly to rain. Thanks to the storm today’s audience was elite compared to the audience of the first two days. And lucky too, because this was a very odd day.

Legate the ex-Ranger had his pet cat with him when he arrived to Númenor. He was an unusual cat. Not only was he the size of a large wolf – oh, not a Werewolf, those were much larger still – but he was also as black as a genuine blackout. However more unusual than that was the unnerving fact that the cat was actually one of the 21 contestants. The cat was a Dire Leopard with the pet name Shasta. Shasta was a beautiful creature with sleek black fur before the storm began. After, Shasta looked miserable and sad, which was appropriate since his master and childhood friend Legate had abandoned him because of a personal restraint. That being the case Shasta crawled into the dryest corner and went to sleep.

The other wonder of creation was plucking his Lute of Brutal Honesty – not that anybody had the slightest idea of why the instrument was called so – and recited a poem that sounded like nothing, quite literally. The audience didn’t even remember his name and he was commonly refered to as ”Who now?” The wind turned and the rain came at his lute. To preserve his instrument he hid it in his cloak. After a slow and pondering gaze around the arena, he said, ”This doesn’t bode well as Shasta is clearly not of the more talkative species. But I wouldn’t like to vote him, he is far too cute to die now. Aganzir on the other hand has said several wise things. But she’s a human, which doesn’t bode good”. He stood up and took out his Bow of Second Guessing just to be on the safe side. ”I have never encountered such an easy choice in my life. The death of a magnificent Dire Leopard or a mere woman? And yet I cannot choose…”

”I’ll vote for Shasta, if he doesn’t say anything”, muttered Aganzir, who sat on- no, under, her horse. She saw that the bard looked at this curiously. ”It’s to prevent getting mys- my axes wet, nothing to stare at”.

”You do have a handsome horse. I promise not to touch her even if I decide to kill you”.

”Hah! My horse promises not to let you touch me even if she has to die for it. But worry not, I’ll personally see that she doesn’t have to risk anything trying to save me. I can jolly well save myself!” spit Aganzir, ”Have in mind that I haven’t tasted Dire Leopard meat before”.

”I think I just came into a mood of not allowing anybody harm animals! Aganzir! To get to Shasta would mean going over my dead body!”

Aganzir looked uninterested and didn’t move an inch.

At that moment somebody in the crowd found out that the bard’s name was Taliesin and the news spread like the wetness of the day. The spreading news sounded like a chant. ”Taliesin, Taliesiin! Oooo-o-oo! O-o-o-oo! Taliesin, Taliesiin!”

The bard lost interest in his self-sacrificing mission the same instant as he recognised his name being sung. He threw off his cloak and took out his Brutally Honest Lute. ”I am honored to be here in the midth of such an awesome audience. Truly, Númenor has the best audience! I hope you enjoy my poems that are mostly fantasy”. The crowd roared with appreciation, although nobody had the slightest idea what would happen next.

”Guess who it is.
Created before the deluge.
A creature strong,
Without flesh, without bone,
Without veins, without blood,
Without head, and without feet”

”Shasta?” Aganzir shouted mockingly.

”It will not be older, it will not be younger,
Than it was in the beginning.
Nope. Kill Shasta for all I care.
There will not come from his design
Fear or death”.

Aganzir’s horse shrugged and began to trot to the sleeping cat. When she was just beside Shasta, Aganzir announced: ”Wakey, wakey! Cat-creature? Have you got any interest in defending yourself? I myself would rather kill you right away without ceremony- no don’t think that that is because I want to be kind, not at all. But I am hungry, and so is my horse”.

”He has no wants
From creatures”.

Shasta opened one eye and growled lazily.

Aganzir interpreted the reply as a ”no” and lifted her bow.

The next moment she lay in the wet sand with the Dire Leopard on top of her closing his jaws on her throat. She didn’t waste (much) time regretting not having a dagger handy (and noted it for the future) and aimed her own teeth at the beast’s throat, not forgetting to send her claws at the eyes. The two struggled in the dirt and tried to best each other. Although Aganzir’s horse was battle-trained and all, this was such a new situation that the horse simply stood and waited for orders pationally.

”Madawg, the joy of the wall,
Madawg, before he was in the grave,
Hey, be fair. Fight a bit quieter, you two.
Was a fortress of abundance
Of games, and society.
Honestly…
The son of Uthyr before he was slain,
Do I have to silence you myself?
From his hand…
I mean, this isn’t the best moment for rolling in the mud…

”Dear audience: I apologize from the bottom of my soul, but there are technical problems with the sound reproduction. Excuse me…”

Taliesin took out his two inconspicious, regular and honest long knives and stuck them into the two dirt-covered figures. ”Ouch!” yelled Aganzir! ”Hsshhh!” hissed Shasta!

”Thanks, Agan, I couldn’t decide which of you was the beast”, said the bard and rolled his eyes. ”I’m doing this with a symbolic meaning then”, he shouted as he plunged an Arrow of Regret into the Dire Leopard’s mouth.

--------~~

Shasta didn’t feel pain. He felt comfortably numb although he was aware of his body changing rapidly. Bones twisted around and rubbed against one another and some broke into pieces which formed completely new bones. His heart shrank and his brain grew. He felt small. Small and weak. Weak and naked. But alive. Suddenly true senses rushed back to him and he felt thirsty.

Shasta opened his eyes and saw bright sunlight. He was lying beside a small pond. He crawled to the edge of it and looked into the water. In the water was a black face of a Man! Shasta tried hissing, but managed only to caugh at the pond. This caused a ripple on the surface of the pond and the image dissolved. Shasta heard a sound from behind himself and jumped around. A man looked at him from behind a stone. The man made some primitive sound and other heads began appearing from the bushes and behind stones. Shasta grew tense, snarled and raised his right paw. At least it had been a paw last time he saw it…

-------~~

Around:
Brinniel
THE Ka
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
McCaber
Nogrod
The Might
Thinlómien
Valier
Groin Redbeard
Meneltarmacil
Kath
Gil-Galad
Naria
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Isabellkya
Rikae
A Little Green
Ugh-Friedrich (host)

Gone:
Legate of Amon Lanc - lynched on Day0.1 - teleported away
Roa_Aoife - lynched on Day0.2 - joined the dance
Shastanis Althereduin - lynched on Day0.3

---------~~

Day0.3 ended, Day0.4 began

Lommy, Might and Noggie may post and vote (for one another (stupid English lesson makes me see my mistakes)). Others sit in silence.

[Nogrod]

"Allright you two, let's do this properly. No one's to run away or hide in the shadows."

Nogrod waved his hammer and turned to look at the balcony of the special guests.

"We will not disappoint the audience!" he yelled and eyed the two contestants in the arena with him. "Now do we?"

~*~

Okay here's just for starters and to the record if I'm not going to walk out of this arena with my own feet.

Legate was a wolf. I gave my argument to it on Day0.0 already and won't repeat it here. Well done Valier and Menel. Even if my guts would say you two look all but innocents, but I guess I must believe the rules stated and take you two as innocents now. We all make misinterpretations I admit.

Roa was a gifted so one of you Naria or McCaber is a wolf. Why? Because Roa would never waver when she's a wolf. You may discuss why someone looks different than "normal" in a game but with people like Roa it would be just preposterous to assume that she is afraid or nervous because she is a wolf. She isn't. She's the real cool killer when a wolf. But if she was a seer she might have tried a more agreeable style trying not to get lynched.

I haven't had time to go through the late posting on the last Day to voice my opinion on that result yet. But I will do it later toDay.


But to the battle at hand then.

My feelings from the Day 0.0 were that Lommy felt innocent and I was pretty confused with The Might. So if I'd have to vote now my vote would go to The Might. Happily I need not to do it right now.

The Might, you have 24 hours to make me rethink my vote! I will surely go through Lommy's and The Might's posting on Day 0.0 to see whether I should myself change my view (I had time to notice Agan had some major problems with Lommy).

I was one of the loudest advocates for people posting on Day 0.0 and I will now say let's not leave this to the posts of Day 0.0 alone but let's make our best effort to post well toDay as well.

Like Valier said on Day 0.1, let's set the standard toDay!

[Thinlómien]

Thinlómien the Elf-Orc stood up to her full height, which wasn't, unfortunately, very impressive. Still, she held her head up high and a grin crept to her face, the corners of her mouth first twitching down, then up, revealing a monstrous row of yellow teeth. She licked her knife. "Squirrel blood... you know I needed a new footbag..."

Then she sheathed the knife. She smiled wryly. "May Elbereth in all her wisdom show us the correct path..." All curelty was extinguished of her expression. "For such guidance is indeed needed. I'm going to face a tough choice toDay. Neither of you really looks wolvish. Not that you'd strike me as obvious innocents either.

It sure is an odd feeling to be here and discuss things in a polite manner while knowing that one of the ones you're talking with is far worse than he seems. I can very well see why Volo added these Days as an extra adrenaline-risers. My mind is buzzing already.

I'm quite glad to be against you two, anyway. I know I can trust Nogrod to be around and provide me something to get clues of. And I do believe TM won't be hypersilent either, though I'm not sure. Well, if he doesn't appear to contribute very much we others can always lynch him. ;) Which brings me to another point.

My feelings from the Day 0.0 were that Lommy felt innocent and I was pretty confused with The Might. So if I'd have to vote now my vote would go to The Might. Happily I need not to do it right now.
The Might, you have 24 hours to make me rethink my vote! I will surely go through Lommy's and The Might's posting on Day 0.0 to see whether I should myself change my view (I had time to notice Agan had some major problems with Lommy).While that indeed is a good way to put pressure on TM and make him post a lot, I really don't like the way you make that statement. Trying to build up alliances and rivalties already? I can see that as an attempt to provoke either of us others to act stupidly. Such an attempt doesn't surely make you suspicious - wolves and innocents alike are going to trick their fellow trial-combatants to react oddly during these rounds, but there's something wrong with the way you phrase it. Phrasing this feeling is quite difficult, but it seems like, you know, you're a wolf thinking he'd probably like to eliminate TM, but leaving all doors open by saying that. After that statement, you can always vote TM if he doesn't post "enough" or defend himself "well enough", or then you can say "ooh, I found something suspicious in Lommy's posts, I'll vote her". Surely it is no crime to enter the game prejudiced, but somehow, your statement rings slightly false to me.

But I'm afraid that doesn't mean I'm any clearer with my suspicions. YesterDay, I agreed with Noggie very much, which eventually lead me to ponder if it means he's innocent (as his mind seems to work the same way as mine) or if he's just a sneaky wolf... But I really didn't suspect him. As to TM, I must he really left no impression on me yesterday. I hope my mind will be clearer after a reread and an analysis.

As to the previous Days... well, the first two ones looked like Volo's playing a cruel joke on us and is pitting three people of the same role against each other. I mean, Legate, Valier and Menel all seemed rather unsincere. I was inclined to believe Legate was the wolf in the trio, though, until he made that very weird final show of his - it left me completely baffled. So I can't really tell which of them was the wolf.

I'm equally undecided about Roa, Naria and McCaber, this time because they all seemed so innocent. (Yes, even Roa whom I suspected on Day0).

Because Roa would never waver when she's a wolf. You may discuss why someone looks different than "normal" in a game but with people like Roa it would be just preposterous to assume that she is afraid or nervous because she is a wolf. She isn't. She's the real cool killer when a wolf. But if she was a seer she might have tried a more agreeable style trying not to get lynched.I disagree. While you raise a very good point of her being a cool killer, I think she's a cool ordo and a cool gifted as well. I can't see acting softer as a gifted as her vice (or virtue). So I'm quite baffled about her role. McCaber's disappearance was odd, but I'm inclined to think him somewhat innocent because he was willing to wait for Naria. I think a newbie wolf might well have just grasped the chance and caused her lynch. (I might just be underestimating new players, though. :rolleyes: ) Naria, on the other hand, looked foul but felt fair, to quote a certain book. I mean, her actions in her own defense look somewhat suspicious, but they rather give me a feel of anxious innocent Naria than a wolvish Naria - who seems to be always readier to give up when accused. So, after all this writing and thinking (I can't think first and write then, I have to do them the same time, my apologies. :D) I'd say Naria is innocent and either McCaber or Roa is the wolf of the three.

As to the latest, displeasingly silent Day, I'm still inclined to believe Aganzir innocent, even though she seemed less suspicious on Day0.0 than last Day. (Even though I have reservations of her, she always manages to fool me completely when's evil...) I can't really have an opinion on Shasta, and THE Ka seems sincere-ish. So... hmmm... any of them could be the wolf, but I'd possibly be the least surprised if they had managed to get it right at random and Shasta indeed was a wolf.

But on the whole, that sure looks a bit too optimistic. I can't believe we'd have been as lucky as to lynch three wolves this far, especially as the gorunds of voting have been quite feeble. So maybe I should reconsider and not lull myself into a false sense of security...

I'll be back a while later to reread and analyse Noggie and Miggie and throw in a few other comments."

[Nogrod]

While that indeed is a good way to put pressure on TM and make him post a lot, I really don't like the way you make that statement. Trying to build up alliances and rivalties already? I can see that as an attempt to provoke either of us others to act stupidly.Well my initial point was to try and challenge The Might to post as you noted. I'd hate to vote him because he doesn't take part as I'd rather have a real choice between you two. That's why I thought I should help him to to see a reason to post. And posting a lot always enhances the chances that one says things that reveal one's treachery. Therefore let's speak a lot. The wolf is under pressure then.

Added to that I will stand behind my standards anyhow. People actually playing this game whatever their role = good, people just trying to hang around and sneak through whatever their role = bad.

I mean this is a game which one should enjoy playing and not only by counting the wins and losses. A great game lost is million times better than a lousy victory.

So I just spoke my mind. Sorry if you don't like it Lommy.

But also I must say that it's funny you did not include the part of my post following the quote where I said I'm going to look after the posts of both of you two to make up my mind only after that - both from Day 0.0 and even more toDay.

So picking the parts that suit you? Even intentionally misrepresenting the meaning behind it? That's what wolves do as they need to fabricate their cases... :rolleyes:

I hope I have time to scan through the posts of you two before I go to sleep and make some comments on them.

(OOC: Lommy and A Little Green are here at my place and we will be spending some latenight together offline... I have an early morning call tomorrow so I will be most active in the latter part of toDay)

[Nogrod]

What I have with the Might?

Three posts on Day 0.0, all towards the end of the Day. Nicely placed even if RL-things are a matter to consider here and thus the placing of the posts can't be made any real case against one.

Still it could be intrerpreted as deliberately safe.

It could... which does not mean it should.


The first post gives the impression he's totally confused about the general outline of the game. Might be true and doesn't prove anything pro or con.

The second post says he's read the Admin. thread and now understands the basic mechanics of the game. Says he sees why votes could matter but then again downplays the meaning of them. Nice and square. But why to defend this position with: I can't really say who is suspicious since it is easy for wolves to defend themselves as they don't have to try and defend any others from their pack.So why are you downplaying any definitive action like voting on Day 0.0? Because you don't want to do it as a wolf - Legate pointed it out well enough that the wolves should stay easy with their suspicions as they might later regret them after they learned they had made cases against their fellows? (btw. Legate a nice try to signal your fellows "don't do it!" :p).

I must admit that in my first WWs I did always consider quiets more suspicious and louds rather helpful then furry and I still stick to this, but this doesn't really matter that much to me anymore. "then" or "than"? That kind of makes a real difference. I guess it is a typo but I'd like to hear from you Might as that kind of changes the meaning of your sentence and also points towards different things with your vote later... I'm not saying this is a big point as I think you meant "than" but if that presupposition is true your later actions should be looked a bit differently...

I know myself there can be many reasons why a player is simply not able to say much on the first Day and so I'm not going to concentrate too much on it all.One of the reasons being you realised what Legate said?
:rolleyes:


Then the theory of yours. Why did you came forwards with it? What was the basic motivation there? You said: After all the twists and turns last WW I think we might be seeing something similar here as well.
I mean, after all the wolves don't do anything, nor do the gifteds.
My humble theory is that we were all made innocentsIt's fun to find you use that term "we" after seeing that one of your basic reasons to vote for me was that I used the term "we" innocents...

I mean many an innocent or gifted have talked about "us" before... so what were you trieng to achieve with that point? Trying to get rid of a possibly hard enemy? Maybe you were as confused with the trials as you were with the more general things and thought it wise to go on suspecting me after Legate had done so and you thought you had a free ticket there with two against one?

Happily we were all wrong and those initial divisions given as examples by Volo weren't the real thing at all...

So were you kind of trying to play in a game where you thought that after Legate's suspicion it would be easy for you to capitulate by making a suspicion on me... (and was I wrong with Legate then?)

The third and last post: simply because I really don't like his playing style.
.......
seems to rather make up reasons to accuse many.
.......
I know he is the loudest, but I really don't like all this noise he's making and I will take a good look at thim as the game progresses.Simply because you don't like the playing style - on a Day 0.0 where no one is to be lynched? Now what is that reasoning? If you were an innocent you would have told us the truth why someone looked bad in your eyes. So you sniffed the air around and concluded that you should vote for someone who looks innocent and then went on with it?

I'll not go back to this "we innocents" stuff anymore as The Might has does it himself but look at the claim: "seems to rather make up reasons to accuse many". Now what else an innocent would do? I know thew wolves would love to have a quiet Day when all these trials would go on by hunches and timing-tactics...

I will take a good look at thim as the game progresses Empty words until proven right. Do it man! And check Lommy as well... Do something!3
I may have my suspicions on Lommy - and I do have them - but if you don't come clear with these and actually post what is it you're suspecting then I need to consider voting you.

But I will have a closer look at Lommy as well tomorrow after I get from work. I'll be around in the last seven hours or something like that...

But The Might, please post... I know Lommy will do that. :)

[Thinlómien]

So I just spoke my mind. Sorry if you don't like it Lommy.Funny you should say that as I definitely agree with you that people should talk - and said as much.

But also I must say that it's funny you did not include the part of my post following the quote where I said I'm going to look after the posts of both of you two to make up my mind only after that - both from Day 0.0 and even more toDay.I included the part where you said you'd be looking at my posts as well and I thought that'd be enough. Besides, surely it can be read from my commentary of your voting policy that I was well aware of the fact that you are going to look at our posts. I see that I didn't mention anything about the fact that you were going to look through TM's posts as well, but that is irrelevant to what I said about what could be a wolf strategy of yours. Clear?

Anyway, I can't really see why did you make such a fuss out of me leaving out a sentence that was totally unnecessary from my point of view. Are you a wolf grasping at straws - at this point of the Day?

So picking the parts that suit you? Even intentionally misrepresenting the meaning behind it? That's what wolves do as they need to fabricate their cases...Come on. :rolleyes: Do you really think that, as a wolf, I would be as stupid as to only pick a part of what you're saying and claim it's all you said and expect someone to believe me and not realise I'm being dishonest? Or what are you implying here?

I wasn't trying to misrepresent you or make you look furry. I merely speculated that your behaviour could be a wolvish ploy. What's wrong with it? I don't really see the point of getting that heated because of a speculative sort of suspicion that isn't even strong.

I can't recall you being this jumpy for ages. Which is weird. Wolves and gifteds may be jumpy, but I've not seen a jumpy Wolfgrod or a Giftgrod since your first games. So what's this? Are you trying a more cobbleresque wolf tactic or are you actually a cobbler creating havoc? Or are you just having a bad day? :p

Or are you just testing my reactions by trying to provoke a reaction with your jumpy aggressiveness? If yes, don't you see your tactic might backfire and lead me - who previously had no "suspicion preference" between you and TM - to actually suspect you?

I must say your current behaviour is perplexing me and I really don't know what to think of you.

It is better than TM's current behaviour, though. I can really draw no conclusions from it, for some reason.

[Thinlómien]

But there's something in her posts that I very much dislike, though I really can't put my finger on it.Very much dislike? Oh no, she doesn't like me anymore! What a horrible fate, my friend hates me... :p

Ka has been all the time in character. It really makes her less suspicious to me. A wolf might be more concerned about her appearances. Yet, on the other hand, a wolf might count on that no one minds a little in-charactering at the start of the first day and use it as an excuse for saying nothing constructive...
I can see the sense of the statement - but it feels completely wrong. It feels like Lommy saw someone who was behaving suspiciously and turned it upside down. It resembles the way Legcobbler spoke in the last game. Or a Lommywolf who has seen a suspicious person and wants to defend her, hoping she's her fellow wolf. That's not the only time I get that feeling from her posts when she speaks about someone (eg. Groin in #81).I have a growing feeling that my fellow players are not trusting my wit at all... :rolleyes: As a wolf, would I really do that? Why take the risk of defending a supposed fellow (note, not even a known fellow)? And I don't like the way you make everything seem like a black/white matter. So being all the time in character is suspicious in principle and that's why you think I'm a wolf who thinks THE Ka suspicious and thus defends her? Did it cross your mind I don't necessarily think the same way you do, so your conclusions on my behaviour might not be valid? And as to the Groin Redbeard -case, well, I have nothing new to say and I really think newbies tend to look more furry than they are.

The phrasing. Wrong. That's just wrong.Well, obviously I can't reply to that in any way before you tell me what's wrong with it...

Now, I'm off to have a proper look at Nog's and Might's posts from Day0.

[Thinlómien]

Ok, I looked through their earlier posts and two things caught my attention:

1)
And even if the wolves are on their own toDay it is right what Legate noted: they may toDay accidentally vote or make open suspicions over their mates and that might be a burden so it's suitable for the wolves to be lenient and nice to everyone. And what's more important, they should not voice any suspicions they actually have - for surely they are on the look out for their mates now - just not to spoil their game later. So look carefully at those being nice and smooth but also to fabricated suspicions eg. those that can be easily reverted as pure Day1 testing or banter.Now I'm not sure at all if that statement sounds reasonable and innocentish. Many people I know play very individually as wolves, they don't really care much about the survival of their packmates and might do them nasty tricks, if necessary, to ensure their own survival and thus the victory of their team. So why wouldn't wolves actually accuse those they believe to be their fellows just to look more innocent? Suspecting someone is not the same as voting someone and voting someone is not the same as getting someone lynched. Now why I find this statement slightly suspicious and not just wrong from my point of view is that Nogrod is a guy who tends to be open and even aggressive when it comes to suspicions and usually has some opinion on the first Day - like he did now. So wouldn't this comment be a nice way of moving the spotlight from people like himself to less decided and outspoken players? Also it's notable how he starts with the fact that he's actually agreeing with Legate here. Thus his opinion doesn't stand out and it creates more pressure. Nice work.

That and the totally perplexing posts from toDay are all that I find suspicious about him. Otherwise he seems neutral or innocentish.

2)
Btw, you know what just came to my mind?
After all the twists and turns last WW I think we might be seeing something similar here as well.
I mean, after all the wolves don't do anything, nor do the gifteds.
My humble theory is that we were all made innocents (that somehow makes it much harder to see any wolvishness in one's playing style) and that the roles really will only be PMed later before the first Day begins.
Don't know if Volo is capable of such evil deeds, but it seems to be an interesting idea...I think that looks a bit like a wolf-Miggy trying to appear innocent... because if such a theory had genuinely crossed his mind, he'd have to be innocent so by posting this he kind of shouts "I'm innocent!", which is something I find a little suspicious.

But that's really all I have against him.

~*~

So I'm really torn. Neither of these guys sends me innocentish vibes. They're both slightly suspicious. I would say I find Nogrod more suspicious than The Might, but I'm vaguely afraid it's just because TM has posted so little that he has not had the chance to look suspicious. I can hardly make any decision before I hear a lot more of him. I don't really know... I could basically vote TM just to keep Nogrod in the game if I have no real evidence of his guilt... I mean, I'd rather play the future days with someone of Nogrod's verbiosity level, not TM's, especially as two loudmouths have already died in this game. I claim it will be a disaster if only silent people make it to the finals... Hmph... and the fact that I have a 50% chance of getting this right really doesn't comfort me... because personally I have the bad feeling that with my luck and current wolf-hunting skills I'm going to choose the wrong one and then it feels even more annoying... :rolleyes: Argh. It's really somewhat disturbing to know that one of the two has to be a wolf, if you have no clear idea which one. I'm very glad I don't have to choose now... Let's hope I get a lot of responses and comments from both of my fellow trialists before I have to make the fatal choice...

[Nogrod]

We just checked our last night's (rl) posting together and ended up playing this game live together in front of the computer. Sadly there's no audio recording of it to share with you... We should definitively stop reading these threads together when a game is on... :rolleyes:

But where are you the Might? You said on Day 0.0 that you didn't like my playing style. I must return that compliment to you now in earnest. Are you playing or are you not?

I also said that I don't think it a valid argument to vote for someone if you dislike his playing style but I'm about to act against my word toDay if you don't appear with some thoughts to share.

In this case I might also say that my vote would not come from pure annoyance with a style of playing but also because of not playing at all.

Okay. I'm optimistic still and I do hope to hear from you so that I can forget what I just wrote. Throwing a dice is no method of reasoning out who is a wolf. We need things said to do that.


Which brings me to Lommy then...

Well, well. I'm not sure what to say right now. I thought initially that Aganzir's points against Lommy weren't too good - and I'm tending to believe that way still. But there's something in her posting toDay that I'm not too relaxed with. Somehow she's over-careful with her standing within this trio even if she posts a lot and also says a lot. It kind of feels she is watching very carefully the balance of the mood and what tm might say when / if he finally comes around. She kind of feels like ready to leap on either direction whichever will suit her better. Now that is not an actual argument against anyone. Many of us try to survive even we we're just plain ordos but I felt I needed to point to that.

And I naturally disagree with your points on me as they are just false or plain far-fetched or insignificant. The problem I have with them is not their content but the fact that you felt a need to voice a host of them. Yes, I can return your point about people possibly throwing things out to see how others react. That's perfectly legitimate and I tend to do that myself as well. But somehow, looking at the context here they seem somewhat fishy or should I say retaliatory (after I made one remark why someone could see Lommy as a wolf). I'd say answering an isolated suggestion of wolvishness with a host of poor arguments that try to paint the other black is jumpy indeed. It doesn't look like an innocent answering (or ignoring) an accusation but as a wolf trying to lead the discussion away from her.

And talking about jumpiness... you saw it fit to answer some suspicions laid on you in a different trial altogether but why? That wasn't so pressing as tm is nowhere to be seen and I think I had already dissed them.

Alright. I seem not to be concentrating on making friends here in this trial but the duty of us is to challenge if we wish to dig those wolves out from their hiding. They must be challenged, they must be forced to react to things. By reactions one can incriminate oneself or make oneself look better.

I know one of you is not a wolf so pardon my suspicions. I need you both to tell me which one of you is.

[Thinlómien]

We just checked our last night's (rl) posting together and ended up playing this game live together in front of the computer. Sadly there's no audio recording of it to share with you... We should definitively stop reading these threads together when a game is on... Indeed, it's stupid - but even if we had an audio recording only Agan and Greenie (and Volo) would understand it... :D

But where are you the Might?Seconded indeed. Where are you? I wouldn't like to vote the slightly more suspicous Nogrod just because you've posted so little that I can draw no conclusions from it, nor would I like to vote you just because you're so absent. Argh. Even though, I must say, that if TM doesn't appear or appears and posts just a few lines, ie doesn't make an impression either way, I'll vote him just because then it's a random choice and it looks like I'm going to enjoy playing with Nogrod more than playing with TM. We can't kill all the talking people and leave the quiet ones.

Somehow she's over-careful with her standing within this trio even if she posts a lot and also says a lot. It kind of feels she is watching very carefully the balance of the mood and what tm might say when / if he finally comes around. She kind of feels like ready to leap on either direction whichevewill suit her better. Now that is not an actual argument against anyone. Many of us try to survive even we we're just plain ordos but I felt I needed to point to that.Yes, I'm waiting for TM to come before I take a real standing on which one of you would I prefer to vote. Like you yourself said, if one of your fellow contestants doesn't post, the choice is random. So I'm waiting for TM to come and give me an impression of either guilt or innocence. It's really the only thing I can do as you don't strike me as particularly wolvish or innocentish.

And I naturally disagree with your points on me as they are just false or plain far-fetched or insignificant.Nice way of dismissing my points against you.

The problem I have with them is not their content but the fact that you felt a need to voice a host of them. Yes, I can return your point about people possibly throwing things out to see how others react. That's perfectly legitimate and I tend to do that myself as well. But somehow, looking at the context here they seem somewhat fishy or should I say retaliatory (after I made one remark why someone could see Lommy as a wolf). I'd say answering an isolated suggestion of wolvishness with a host of poor arguments that try to paint the other black is jumpy indeed. It doesn't look like an innocent answering (or ignoring) an accusation but as a wolf trying to lead the discussion away from her.Now, excuse me, that's a bit ridiculous. Should I not voice every little suspicious thing about you that crosses my mind? And as to the fact that those came after your points against me, well, it was obviously because you reserved the computer to yourself before me (no, don't get it wrong, I think it's ok as you had to wake up early while I didn't), but then you can hardly complain that I raise points against you only when you've first raised points against me. And if your posts look suspicious to me, of course I comment it.

I find it funny that you first accuse me of aggressiveness and then of defensiveness. It seems like you complain if I raise points against you or defend myself/ clarify my sayings if someone has raised a point against me. What else could I actually do? Raise points against TM based on three mostly nonsensical posts? (which I actually did) Or stay silent like him and say nothing, as everything I say seems to displease you?

Besides, you accuse me of retaliatory aggressiveness. Just look at your latest post. :p

And talking about jumpiness... you saw it fit to answer some suspicions laid on you in a different trial altogether but why? That wasn't so pressing as tm is nowhere to be seen and I think I had already dissed them.But there are other players in this game too, not just the two of you. If I made it through this trial and Night1, I'd still have to reply those points, so why not get it done and out of the way in the first place? Besides, if I were to die before Day1, I would at least have pointed out the flaws in Agan's argumentation. And really, if someone accuses me on feeble grounds, what reasons would I have not to respond it, as there clearly wasn't anything more urgent for me to do? Yes, you can complain that I replied to Agan before looking thorugh your and TM's posts, but I was aware I'd have plenty of time to do both, so it's surely not incrminating that I decided to do the easier/shorter thing first?

Also, I don't like the apologetic ending of your post. Of course people have to challenge each other in these trials. You've been doing it, I've been doing it, and in fact, it has lead to some sort of argument and chain of accusations between us while both of us declare we are not very suspicious of the other. Which would be a very amusing situation if it was less serious. :D

But really... it seems we can hardly do anything else than argue against each other before TM appears and sheds some light on this whole thing. And justified or not, I have the feeling that he appears a while before the deadline, reads through our little argument and votes the one he says looks more wolvish based on it without really elaborating on that much and disappears. That would be very frustrating, but at least it would solve the problem of who I'm going to vote toDay... *would add a rolleyes-smiley if hadn't already passed the limit*

[Nogrod]

I'm getting a feeling that our arguments are becoming more and more mirror-images of each other... ;)

I say I suspect Lommy for jumping on my points and turning them to points against me - and she does likewise.

I say Lommy is jumpy & retaliatory, she says I'm jumpy and retaliatory.

Lommy says she's been accused with feeble reasons, I feel the same.

Lommy accuses me of an apologetic ending in my last post and then makes a rather consiliatory ending herself...

:o

Okay the Might, the mighty warrior you boast you are. Come to the rink and don't shy in the shadows. It seems we're in a dire need of discussing something else for a change.

(OOC: I'm going to prepare a dinner for myself and Lommy but will return after an hour or two to try and make some substantial posting - hopefully concerning the Might's new posts as well)

[Thinlómien]

Lommy accuses me of an apologetic ending in my last post and then makes a rather consiliatory ending herself...I was about to shout that that's a feeble and false accusation, but then I reconsidered what I had written and found out it's actually true... :D This situation is quite comical, indeed.

And I agree with you. We can't really do anything more - or at last I can't - before TM arrives.

*waits*

[The Might]

Well I'm here.
Did it maybe occur to you that I was not able to go online cause we have a weekend at the moment?
I mean, yes, I play WW with pleasure, but due to a rather unexpected RL event I was unable to post. So please excuse me for going out with friends instead of sitting home and posing on the thread.
Seems quite an easy strategy there Nogrod to simply say that if I don't post I should be voted. I find it quite unfair of you to do that as long as you did not have a clue. As I didn't post on any other thread here you could have thought that I might not be there.

Anyway, leaving that aside the then/than part was a typo, I've always had a problem with those two.

And I also don't understand why you are so suspicious of this theory.
I mean after all, don't you think it is possible? And what is the problem really, it is just an idea, might be a bad one, but still it was an idea.
Yes, I did indeed say "we" because, as you might have noticed" the theory was the all are innocents. Especially since the roles are not revealed upon death I have even more reasons to believe this.

Now, if you wish to believe that this idea was in some way planned so that I can at the end use "we" and imply that I am an innocent, then go ahead.

I find it good that you also took a look at Lommy, that makes me feel better about you.
I'm not sure who I will vote, somehow both of you don't really seems supicious now and if I had to choose I would probably say Nog simply because there isn't much I see bad in Lommy.

[Thinlómien]

First off, I'm glad to see you around, Might. I do know it's weekend so I thought you might have something to do Friday night and would be sleeping late. But you absence today afternoon has troubled me. I assumed you'd give ww more time but evidently I was wrong.

But the fact that you had RL things doesn't change the fact that you have this far given very little to go on.

Seems quite an easy strategy there Nogrod to simply say that if I don't post I should be voted.Surely that's not a very fair accusation since I, too, said that I'll vote you if you don't appear. I just said it later and probably in a less aggressive manner. ;)

I find it good that you also took a look at Lommy, that makes me feel better about you.He would have been extremely silly not to look at my posts as well as that would have been immediately viewed as suspicious.

[Nogrod]

Did it maybe occur to you that I was not able to go online cause we have a weekend at the moment?
I mean, yes, I play WW with pleasure, but due to a rather unexpected RL event I was unable to post. So please excuse me for going out with friends instead of sitting home and posing on the thread.It did. Lommy already told what we thought, Friday night and having fun with friends etc. No problem. People have lives - even we do. :cool:

But then again if one wants to play a game with others here the others expect the person to play with them then. I think it is a cheap rhetoric to put this game against RL. You have yourself promised to play a game so using that kind of arguments to cover you in a game don't actually convince me.

Anyway, leaving that aside the then/than part was a typo, I've always had a problem with those two.I thought so. Thanks for clearing that.

I'm not sure who I will vote, somehow both of you don't really seems supicious now and if I had to choose I would probably say Nog simply because there isn't much I see bad in Lommy.Remember what I said: the wolves need to be agreeable as not to get lynched. These trials highlight that fact as they have to survive in this threesome. The innocents need to find out things, they need to get everyone talking. The wolves will be happy with silence and comformism. The innocents need to tear things apart and to accuse to see how people react.

Btw. my concerns with Lommy just hit the roof seeing her latest post where she looked really amicable indeed, even underlining that she had voiced the same concerns I did but more pleasantly.

So do consider and reconsider.

And where are you anyway Might? Lurking in the corners still? I thought you would have started to take part in this but it's 1½ hours since your only post toDay?

Either you don't want to play or then you intentionally avoid playing. Both of these reasons might make me consider voting you notwithstanding my worries on Lommy. I mean with Lommy one can play and there's something to read from her. I mean you can't honestly claim you have played this far...

[Thinlómien]

Btw. my concerns with Lommy just hit the roof seeing her latest post where she looked really amicable indeed . . .Eh. First I'm a wolf because I'm so "aggressive" and then because I'm so "amicable". I smell a contradiction here.

. . . even underlining that she had voiced the same concerns I did but more pleasantly.So what is the probelm?
a) The fact that I pointed out that you were not the only one here to say that you'd vote Miggy if he doesn't appear?
b) Or that I said so in the first place?
c) Or the fact that I did it in a less aggressive way than you did?
d) Or that I said that I did it less aggressively than you did?

Well, obviously
a) Why wouldn't I point that out? Miggy might be a wolf trying to justify his planned vote against you on rather feeble grounds. And even if you are the wolf out of the two, well, even wolves don't deserve to be suspected/voted on false grounds.
b) I think I've said it already why I'd rather vote TM than you if I have no clear opinion about either of you.
c) I think my way of saying things, in ww at least, is generally less aggressive and more friendly than yours. Besides, I must say that while you threatened to vote TM to get him talking, I never did. That itself should be areason to call my approach less aggressive.
d) Well, I was just trying to joke a little bit like the smilie tells and I also saw my being more friendly and the fact that I stated the will-vote-Might -thing later than yours as reasons that TM might have had for picking on your comment but saying nothing about mine. (So, if you will, you can ever read it the way that I'm making up bad excuses for TM to behave how he did. :p ;))

[Nogrod]

First I'm a wolf because I'm so "aggressive" and then because I'm so "amicable". I smell a contradiction here.I smell a continuation of our discussions toDay overall... And anyway you can't actually claim that it's the same thing what you say to one person or another now can you? As a wolf one might reasonably be aggressive towards some people and smooth with dealing some others. You know that well. And in a threesome game those aspects just get highlighted.

So what is the probelm?
d) Or that I said that I did it less aggressively than you did? Exactly. That is the problem. You hurry to underline that you were nicer to bring forwards the feel-good factor of the Might. That's wolfy I'd say.

You see the general issue? The innocents want to get out whatever they can from the discussion as it's their job to find the wolves and to lynch them so they can risk themselves with openly going forwards. The wolves need to survive and thence avoid controversy - at least in a threesome.

Now the Might where are you! I'd say you're a coward for a hero!

[The Might]

Well, Nogrod, I must admit that you are right.
At first I didn't really like what you just wrote, probably because I was not willing to admit it is true. But, I must say, you are truly correct.
I have been giving WW too little attention and I admit it.
The problem is I would like to say that I'll try harder from now on, but after a few games I'm starting to realise I like the game but not so much playing it.
Not really the conclusion I wanted to eventually come to, but still, the conclusion.
So thanks, Nogrod, for giving me that poke and making me realise that.
And please do not think that I mean this as an offense or irony, this is really the way I feel about this.

I guess that I am somehow too lazy to analyse all people or maybe I'm not really good at it or maybe I don't really enjoy it.
Not sure what it is, but really I don't see myself becoming a good WW player like some of the older members.

As such, I feel the need to make a decision and even though it is not quite nice I think it is the right thing to do.
I'm going to take a break from WW, possibly permanently and maybe retry sometime in the future when I feel that I have more time on my hands and more importantly more will to participate.
I wish all other players good luck in this game and in the following ones be they innocents, gifteds or wolves!

So, I'll be taking my leave now and you can always find me in Mirth or the lore stuff.

I do not think I have seen a rule about suicide votes, so here goes:
++ The Might (for not having what it takes) :(

[Thinlómien]

More than 2h since Miggy's latest post? Eeksies...

And anyway you can't actually claim that it's the same thing what you say to one person or another now can you? As a wolf one might reasonably be aggressive towards some people and smooth with dealing some others. You know that well. And in a threesome game those aspects just get highlighted.Ok, fair point. Even though I can't see mewolf being as trasparent as being aggressive against you and being nice to Miggy in order to get him to my side and you lynched, if that's what you're trying to say I'm doing...

You see the general issue? The innocents want to get out whatever they can from the discussion as it's their job to find the wolves and to lynch them so they can risk themselves with openly going forwards. The wolves need to survive and thence avoid controversy - at least in a threesome.Yes, but challenging others and not playing it safe is different than being deliberatedly aggressive and unfriendly.

edit: xed with The Might - now what's this? :eek:

[Thinlómien]

Ok... now that was honest words. The honest words of an innocent or a wolf? Either could react that way to this kind of situation.

But...

Now this really got me thinking... *must use brains*

[The Might]

Lommy, can you please for one second stop analysing my last post.
I somehow expected this and I am susprised you think that I might be using this as some kind of strategy.

[Nogrod]

Yes, but challenging others and not playing it safe is different than being deliberatedly aggressive and unfriendly.This is one thing I don't buy. Okay, maybe it's my broken English or something but I don't feel I'm "deliberatedly aggressive and unfriendly". From my point of view I've been most agreeable this game (as in many others). It's just that we are playing a game in which one must suspect and accuse... Read the first post of the Barrow-Wight in the TiG-thread... I have nothing against you people in general but in game I try my best to wrench the truth out from you guys (or to mislead you when I'm a wolf).

So you're short on ammunition Lommy? Well good as I will target you from this on.

Well, Nogrod, I must admit that you are right.
At first I didn't really like what you just wrote, probably because I was not willing to admit it is true. But, I must say, you are truly correct.
I have been giving WW too little attention and I admit it.
The problem is I would like to say that I'll try harder from now on, but after a few games I'm starting to realise I like the game but not so much playing it.
Not really the conclusion I wanted to eventually come to, but still, the conclusion.
So thanks, Nogrod, for giving me that poke and making me realise that.
And please do not think that I mean this as an offense or irony, this is really the way I feel about this.I'm pretty happy to see you being this honest with us. No problem. Do come back when you think you have more time to this. I really hope so as you have played quite well when you have given yourself to this.

I do say now you're a brave warrior, the bravest of us all. You hid in the shadows but now you really showed your qualities. Even if my hammer will be among thoe that kill you I will do it with respect.

I mean if I vote Lommy as I should then she will vote for me and it will all go to the dice. That's not the thing we can afford.

But your sacrifice was not in vain as now I think I know Lommy is a wolf. And I think I can handle her now.

So without further ado

++The Might

Thank's Might. You did the right thing if you really weren't able to take part and were innocent.

PS. Were you a wolf then nice try (we've seen a few of those to be sure)... but it will take a lot from Lommy to convince me of her innocence.

[Thinlómien]

++THE MIGHT


I mean if I vote Lommy as I should then she will vote for me and it will all go to the dice. That's not the thing we can afford. I would have voted The Might in any case.

I completely disagree with you that his last words prove his innocence. They only prove he's frustrated and feeling bad.

Even after that post of his I thought you two more or less equally suspicious. But I think it's better to vote The Might than create a three-way roulette since Might's going to die anyway. If I had voted you I would have risked my own death also and if you are the wolf instead of TM, that would have been a disaster.

And your rapid declaration of TM's innocence and thereby my guilt looks terribly wolvish to me. Which is kind of a pity because before this whole Might's self-vote scenario I was slightly inclined to believe Might was the wolf...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

As the fourth day of the battles dawned, the audience has already filled the seats of the arena. Everyone was full of expectations, and when Nogrod of Nogrod shouted "We will not disappoint the audience!" a roar of excitement resounded in the arena.

However, the battle of the day did not quite meet the expectations. Soon it became apparent that the Mighty Rog, despite his bravery and significant heroic deeds in the past, hid himself somewhere in a dark corner. Or so it seemed. Nevertheless, the remaining two contestants soon accustomed themselves to the situation and spent most of the day in a long debate. And it was not always a debate just between the two of them.

"Well done, Valier! Well done, Menel!" Nogrod shouted at the warriors resting and healing their wounds in the back of the arena. "Naria and McCaber, one of you is a wolf!"
"Aganzir, what is it that you dislike about me?" Thinlómien gnarled. "What is it all of you distrust me?" Her orc-elf eyes were suddenly filled with tears. "No one trusts me! Oh Elbereth, Elbereth, why? My friends don't trust me! My friends don't like me anymore!"

"I say everyone should speak, speak, and speak!" roared Nogrod. "And it does not matter whether I win or lose, I want a good fight! So where is this cowardly Elf?"
"You mean ME?" Thinlómien said in a threatening voice, drawing up an Orc knife. Then she changed her mind and took her great bow instead.
"Not you," said Nogrod. "I mean the one who is not here!" He turned and shouted over the whole arena. "Hey you! Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me!"
"It won't help if he nods when you don't see him, silly Dwarf," said Thinlómien. Nogrod ignored her and kept addressing The Mighty Rog who was nowhere to be seen. After speaking up his mind about all sorts of things The Might did on the first day, he shouted once again, in hope to bring in the missing contester: "Hey you! Can you hear me?"

No answer came. Both the contesters and all the audience were silent, mostly because a large part of the audience fell asleep during Nogrod's monologue. Suddenly, a gentle buzzing sound went through the arena.
"What's this?" Nogrod asked, raising his hammer. "What's that sound? Who makes that?"
"It's my mind," said Thinlómien and the buzzing sound stopped. The expression of the Orc-Elf's face changed. She grinned at Nogrod with her mouth full of sharp teeth. "And why is that of your concern anyway? You are unnecessarily jumpy, I noticed that, while if I remember correctly, you haven't been jumpy for ages!"

Nogrod shrugged. "I can be jumpy whenever I wish. It is true that since First Age, I indeed haven't been jumpy at all. But look," he said and started jumping around. Thinlómien observed him critically. "That's quite aggressive," she said. "Or are you just having a bad day? Or are you testing my reactions? What is this supposed to be?"
"What, you don't like my jumping?" Nogrod stopped and clutched his hammer.
"No, not at all," Thinlómien said, not threatened in the slightest. "Obviously you don't even know how to jump. Look at me. This is the way it should be done!"

With these words, the Orc-Elf jumped at Nogrod with her old, rusty sword drawn. But Nogrod of Nogrod was not the one to be caught off his guard. He dodged the first strike and immediately thrusted out his arm to hit Thinlómien on her unprotected left side. But even before he could move to the strike, he realised Thinlómien is doing the same. With his superior warrior reflexes, he turned to attack Thinlómien by a bottom strike, only to find his opponent doing the same. They continued dueling for a long time; unfortunately, all the audience was sleeping by that time and could not observe the battle.

"This is of no use," Nogrod said after some time, stopping. "You are mirroring everything I do."
"You as well," Thinlómien said, breathing heavily. "It is obvious neither of us can win."

A merry voice coming from the gate interrupted them. "Hello folks!" Both the contesters turned to see The Might escorted by several Ar-Pharazon's praetorians being led into the arena. "Sorry I wasn't around, I, uh, went out with some friends," he turned and waved to the balcony. Ar-Pharazon, Sauron and Tar-Míriel were standing there, waving back at him. The Queen smiled and then they all turned and left the balcony. Nogrod and Thinlómien exchanged surprised looks.

"They heard about my heroic deeds and wanted to meet me so that I can recount them," the Mighty Rog explained. "They are nice folks. The King, the Queen, even that Sauron fella. We had a nice chat..."

Nogrod and Thinlómien looked at each other once again. Their expressions were now frozen, but the flame of jealousy was to be seen in their eyes. How comes, they both thought, that this warrior earned the King's favour so easily? This was certainly not fair.

And they are not going to leave it at that.

"Hey, you," Nogrod shouted at the Mighty Rog. "Can you hear me?"

As the Mighty Rog turned, Thinlómien stepped closer to him with her sword raised high. "Hey you," she repeated Nogrod's words, "can you feel me?" And at the moment, she hit the warrior flat with the sword. Knocked down, the Mighty Rog fell to the ground.

"That was easy," Thinlómien said with an Orcish smile.
"No one is watching," Nogrod said, overlooking the sleeping tribunes. "But given the popularity he earned, someone may have wanted us to spare him. Let's hide him somewhere, quick."
"Let's dig a hole and bury him," Thinlómien proposed.
"Good idea," nodded Nogrod. "Let's do it!" And they both started digging. But suddenly, one of the spectators awoke, and it took him only a while to realise what is going on. He overlooked the sleeping tribunes.

"Hey you, don't let them to bury the Might!" he shouted with hope to awake the audience. The tribunes stirred. The two digging contestants were alarmed. "He gave in without a fight," Thinlómien cried apologetically, but no one listened to her. The onlookers all rose in protest to the treatment of the famous Hammer of Gondolin. The royal guards marched into the arena in order to maintain order and they dragged the Mighty Rog's unconscious body out of the place.

"Today's contest is over!" Ugh-Friedrich's voice resounded above the heads of the crowd and the contestants. "Nogrod and Thinlómien continue in the contest. Now, greet the three new warriors...!"

-------~~

The Mighty Rog did not stay on Númenor. After being carried out of the arena, he found himself a boat and left the island for good. The strike to his head did him some good at least: he rethought all he heard from the King and Sauron, and decided that if he is to sail West, he'd prefer to do that on his own.

-------~~

Around:
Brinniel
THE Ka
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
McCaber
Nogrod
Thinlómien
Valier
Groin Redbeard
Meneltarmacil
Kath
Gil-Galad
Naria
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Isabellkya
Rikae
A Little Green
Ugh-Friedrich (host)

Gone:
Legate of Amon Lanc - lynched on Day0.1 - teleported away
Roa_Aoife - lynched on Day0.2 - joined the dance
Shastanis Althereduin - lynched on Day0.3
The Might - lynched on Day0.4 - escorted away and sailed away

---------~~

Day0.4 ended, Day0.5 began

sally, Kath and Gil-Galad may post. Others keep out.

[The Might]

Well, I am (was) an innocent and I am saying this right now simply because that might help the good side win in the end. So good luck!

[Kath]

I thought I'd post as soon as possible just to say that I'm here and I want to apologise now for not having posted on that Day 1 thing. I don't think I'd even specifically said I was playing then and I thought it was just the discussion thread when I saw it in the Topics list. So, my apologies, and I am playing!

But it does look like I'll need to go back to that first Day and read through it all so I will get back to you later.

[Kath]

Hmm, am I supposed to be role-playing at all or was that only for the first Day? I'm not a great role-player within WW games anyway so I might just leave it.

Anyway I'm back because as it turns out it looks like sally and Gil were as confused as I was so there is nothing to go through! Therefore I shall disappear until one or hopefully both of them have turned up.

[satansaloser2005]

So sorry Kath! I've been ill and I took a little longer nap than I'd expected. But here I am now.


I need to catch myself some grub real quick and then I'll return to peruse your posts, my hopefully non-hairy friend. If you'd care, you could even leave me more to peruse while I'm gone. ;)

I should probably return in about 15 minutes. Maybe Gil will manage a chance to post in between now and then.

[Kath]

Nice to see someone else around! Compared to the Day with Lommy and Nog around this one looks like it's going to be pretty quiet.

Gil was around earlier in the week 'cause I saw a post by him in the wrong place when I was going through the thread earlier. Let's hope he remembers this is the Day he's meant to be around!

[satansaloser2005]

Indeed! I was confused as well on the first day about what was going on and then I just wasn't able to access the site that entire rest of the day. A pox on the phony internet of my college.

So....Kath....are you a werewolf? Huh, are you? ARE YOU?

Sorry just a little bored and figured I might as well entertain myself. ;)

[Kath]

See I just missed the whole thing entirely!

And no I am not a wolf. You? Though this is a particularly pointless discussion as either one of us could be lying. :rolleyes:

[satansaloser2005]

"I have had far too much time on my hands," remarked Sally. "I've noticed a few things in my watchings of the previous battles that seem to me to be a bit, what is the word? A bit off. Perhaps I shall explain. As soon as I've had my afternoon drink."

Sally rushed to the nearest place where the fufu berry grew ripe (and conveniently bottled) and helped herself to a swig of wonder. She looked down and saw her duck tapping her wing impatiently, as if to say "get on with it already!" and stooped down to give her little pet a small piece of bread. Emily scampered off in a happy manner and began to look at all the other warriors with a concerned and suspicious eye. Soon Sally heard an exicted quack rushing her way as Emily returned. Sally realized what had her little pet in such a fit and began to write down what Emily had seen....

[Kath]

O....kay? Should I ask what Emily has seen or should I call the men in white coats?

[satansaloser2005]

See I just missed the whole thing entirely!

And no I am not a wolf. You? Though this is a particularly pointless discussion as either one of us could be lying. :rolleyes:

I'll just come out and say it. It's not worth hiding it since you've discovered my secret. Without a doubt or question, conclusively proven through trial, error, and PMs, I am....the duck whisperer. Fear me.

[Kath]

I am....the duck whisperer. Fear me.
Pshaw! No duck whisperer can scare me. I was a Duck in a previous life and a victorious one too!

[satansaloser2005]

Call the men in white coats, because she's still talking to me. And I haven't finished reading the thread. But while they're on their way, perhaps I might ensnare a wolf for us? INdeed I shall proceed then. (Figured on the off-chance I get lynched today, I might at least provide some service to the community).
So here we go. The transcripts from the first of the Emily Ramblings.


Post 140: Legate's death speech. Boils down to "I'm not the seer or the ranger, so chill." Doesn't say anything about the hunter or the counseller, so I'm pretty sure we lost one of those, because I think it'd be rather silly of him to try to bluff about his wolfishness if he's already dead. May as well just go quietly into that great dance floor or whatever happened to him (I will edit post to make a better joke when I find out what happened to him.) Then again, isn't the counseller kind of on the side of the werewolf? Or is that the guardian? I think I need that explained a little better, so I'll have to reread it. It may come in handy for me later to understand those roles properly.

Post (or rather lack thereof) 171b: Would have been 172, but McCaber never voted. He just sat back and allowed the tie to happen, resulting in the mod-god having to (sort of) pick between the two votees. Seems a little hairy to me. ON the other hand, McCaber could have had RL issues. We'll have to ask later.


To be continued shortly....

[Kath]

Hmm, with Legate, isn't it that every Day there is an ordo, a Wolf and a Gifted. So perhaps he only listed two of what he wasn't because he was an ordo and didn't want to overtly out the Gifted? But actually that doesn't really make sense because he could have said he was the Seer and then the wolves might have been less cautious later which might have helped. I think there are so many ways that could go, but if I had to decide I would be more inclined to think he was a well-intention ordo trying to make the most out of his death.

[satansaloser2005]

Possible. He plays quite a bit differently than I do, but I wouldn't make the "I'm not this particular gifted, nor this one" comment unless I was one of the remaining gifteds. The thing I find the least plausible is Legate-wolf. It just wouldn't make a whole lot of sense, no matter how you slice it.

[Kath]

Yes but the fact that he only mentioned Seer and Ranger speaks in his favour as an ordo to me. He knows he's going to die, he wants to help in some way, he manages to inform the villagers that the two most helpful Gifted's must be alive because he isn't either of them. I suppose you could presume from that that he might be one of the other Gifted's but if he was the Guardian I doubt he'd have said anything since that's a role more helpful to the wolves. I suppose he could have been the Counsellor (I'm learning the names! ... Slowly.) but I'm still inclined to think ordo.

[satansaloser2005]

Yes but the fact that he only mentioned Seer and Ranger speaks in his favour as an ordo to me. He knows he's going to die, he wants to help in some way, he manages to inform the villagers that the two most helpful Gifted's must be alive because he isn't either of them. I suppose you could presume from that that he might be one of the other Gifted's but if he was the Guardian I doubt he'd have said anything since that's a role more helpful to the wolves. I suppose he could have been the Counsellor (I'm learning the names! ... Slowly.) but I'm still inclined to think ordo.


Definitely possible. For Legate, at least, it's a moot point, being dead and all. The only reason this is even remotely important is which, if any, of our gifteds have been taken from us. I dunno. I just figured I should bring it up. On to finding more....

[satansaloser2005]

Admittedly, I had only glanced over the posts before I started and still haven't fully read everything from the last "day."

A few things I did notice, though:
-Nogrod, strangely enough, seemed to want people to start putting pressure on others, voicing suspicions, etc.
-McCaber started acting unusually friendly toward me after I mentioned that a loud wolf was more dangerous than a quiet one, thanking me for allowing him to remain silent when he had nothing to say.


Seems true enough, the part about Noggie that is. But it was the first day, so it's not like arguing or a mis-lynch would necessarily be bad because no one would die anyway. Besides, I think that later in the game some of the things said on day one may actually turn out to be important. We'll have to see.

[Kath]

Hmm, apparently I'm playing devil's advocate here but I don't see why Noggie asking for suspicion is a bad thing. Where is the point in a Day where everyone gets on swimmingly and nothing analytical is said. In addition, a Day where people lay out their suspicions is helpful so that when we get into the main game (if we survive these mini ones!) we can see progression.

[satansaloser2005]

Hmm, apparently I'm playing devil's advocate here but I don't see why Noggie asking for suspicion is a bad thing. Where is the point in a Day where everyone gets on swimmingly and nothing analytical is said. In addition, a Day where people lay out their suspicions is helpful so that when we get into the main game (if we survive these mini ones!) we can see progression.



Yeah that's what I think too. Hence why I don't think it was necessarily bad for Noggie to do that, at least on Day 0.0. If he does it later in the game, we might have to look further into it, but for now....


A sudden thought dawned upon Sally. "I wonder if the werewolves know who each other are?" she pondered. "Wouldn't it be funny if (insert example name here) made a wonderful case against (insert another example name here) and made them appear plainly hairy, and then they turned out to be fellows?" Sally mulled this thought over for a bit and giggled at the thought of one fellow accidentally betraying the other, all the while wondering if the baddies had thought of this, or if it was even relevant.



That thought popped into my head a bit ago and I felt I needed to share it. Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to send Emily after Gil. Perhaps he is sleeping. If so, she shall bite his toes and wake him up, forcing him to come here and post.

[satansaloser2005]

Gil? Where are you? *ponders* Perhaps Emily got a little too hungry. She has been looking a little thin.


Okay, so here's the deal. I'm going to bed. I'll check the board before I head to church in the morning, and if no one's posted I guess I'll simply have to cast a vote and leave, which I would really not care to do, because I think Kath is innocent at the moment and I haven't heard from Gil at all. I'd like to give him a chance to speak. But....I don't know. I'll see what happens in the morning. Hopefully Gil or Kath can post before I head out.

P.S. Internet access in hometown not guaranteed, hence why I may be forced to vote before I leave, because otherwise I may not be able to vote at all and that would just stink.

P.P.S. Sorry for the double post all. Just wanted to let everyone know what was going on and didn't feel kosher about simply adding onto my other post. Night~!

[Kath]

Hmm still no Gil. I do hope he turns up toDay and plenty before the deadline as I'm going to have to leave at least an hour before and it looks like sally will be leaving even sooner.

[satansaloser2005]

Gah! Still no Gil! I wonder where he could be....


Okay, I'm heading out in a few minutes or else I'll be really late. I'm going to visit my mother today for lunch so I'll be able to check things out while I'm there. I really hope Gil shows up soon!

[Kath]

Hang on, it's Sunday! My apologies I thought it was Monday, I will be here at the deadline.

*watches bale of hay roll across the screen*

[satansaloser2005]

No problem. Sadly, I have only a couple moments online (my mother's husband needs the computer in a bit) so I'll have to vote now. My apologies, but....



++Gil



I hate to do this to the poor fellow, but Kath, I honestly think you're an innocent. And since I have nothing to go on with Gil, I'd sadly rather kill an unknown than a presumed innocent. I'm truly sorry Gil, for I wish you could have stayed longer, but I have to go with the more reasonable choice, and that is not killing Kath.

Kath, go ahead and vote for whichever of us you please. I just felt the need to eliminate Gil from the picture since he hasn't been in to defend himself anyway. Enjoy the rest of your weekend and I hope to see you when the battles are at an end!



P.S. Happy 101st posting to me! *sings*

[Kath]

Eep! Just amde it.

++GIL

He hasn't posted, sally has.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

The fifth day arrived with a fog, which grew so intense that by midday that the audience sealed away from the gladiators. The only thing that could be seen was the sun and it was whiter than the palest of moons. The most far-sighted look-outs were exeptions as they could see a trace of light gleaming off Tomas Megarson’s golden armour.

Speaking of whom, Tomas was having an argument with his inner dragon. The dragon complained that Tomas was too dirty to live in, while Tomas claimed that he was too busy to brush the dust off his soul. And anyway, inner dragons don’t have souls of their own so why should Tomas care what the dragon wants. The dragon was quite crushed by that because it didn’t have a soul and knew it, and obviously wasn’t the only one who knew it. It did however claim to be an essential part of Tomas and if he treated it badly, he would go to ruin. Tomas left that unanswered, but assailed the dragon with a question, ”Why don’t you do it if you seem to care so much?” He then added that he had already cleaned his golden armour today and wasn’t in the mood to clean anything else. ”Maybe tomorrow”.

While those two were having their quarrel, the other three were in the middle of a highly civilized small talk. Sally Underdale was explaining Kath the Whiteness how her compass works. ”It will turn purple when there is evil nearby. Sadly it will take some time for it to get the newest security upgrade before it can notice Wolves”.

”Oh, how nice”, said Kath while having most of her concentration on agonizing over the fact that most people saw her only as a boring old fog and not even remotely as a being of everlasting beauty. ”Yes yes, very interesting, do tell more”, Kath said not noticing that Sally had already noticed that Kath wasn’t in the least bit interested in anything she was saying and turned to talk with her pet duck Emily.

Sally couldn’t speak duck, but then again, Emily wasn’t just any duck, but a duck present in several different dimencions and thus being able to communicate with Sally, or any other person, through means of collective subconscience. Like Tomas and his inner dragon, Sally and Emily were not in the best of terms right now. Like Legate and unlike Tomas, Sally wanted her closest if not best friend to participate in the competitions. Like Tomas and unlikeLegate, Sally didn’t do that. She had really wanted to, she did! But Emily had said ”Quack!” and left little space for opposing opinions.

Now that both Tomas and Sally were having their private discussions, Kath grew tired pondering her appearance as nobody was noticing her anyway. She decided to go for quick flight over Meneltarma to clear her thoughts. She guessed, with irony, the right reaction of the audience: as soon as she left the Temple, the crowd began celebrationg the dissolving of the fog. For the first time during the whole day they could see what was going around in the arena. Not much, it seemed at first. Until...

...until they noticed that where the gate leading out of the arena originally stood (and where just the grey fog originally was), a larger gate began to form out of nowhere. A glittering bridge could be seen behind it, and as it reached its full size, coloured shapes could be noticed circling above. One of them was coming closer, outlined with greenish light, but dark in itself. The audience shouted with surprise and fear: it was a huge dark dragon, and a man was sitting on the dragon's back.

"Ashen-Shugar!" a voice resounded in Tomas' head. Both Sally and her friend stared in amazement. "Quack!" Emily said, which could have meant something along the lines "That dragon is way bigger than I am."

"Ashen-Shugar!" the figure of the man - or was it a man? - repeated its call. "Why are you here? This is not a place for you. I have been searching for you. Come and join us!"

Tomas lifted his head and looked into the stranger's eyes. "Leave me alone, Draken-Korin! You are dead. I don't know how you appeared here, but I don't care. I am here to fight with -"

The stranger laughed. "I wouldn't say I am dead. I don't think so, at least. But this is not a place for you to fight, Ashen-Shugar. These - beings - are not worth your attention. Come! Let us ride once again and visit another worlds, and -"

"I said no," Tomas replied. "And if you don't leave, I swear I'm going to -"

"To what? Kill me? You don't have the guts to do it, Ashen-Shugar. No, the only ones you are capable of fighting are these stupid little -"

But that was enough. With a cry of rage, Tomas leapt towards the intruder with his sword drawn. But as soon as his feet touched the golden bridge, Draken-Korin roared with laughter and the gate disappeared like a puff of smoke. And the one who was called Tomas disappeared with it.

-------~~

Around:
Brinniel
THE Ka
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
McCaber
Nogrod
Thinlómien
Valier
Groin Redbeard
Meneltarmacil
Kath
Naria
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Isabellkya
Rikae
A Little Green
Ugh-Friedrich (host)

Gone:
Legate of Amon Lanc - lynched on Day0.1 - teleported away
Roa_Aoife - lynched on Day0.2 - joined the dance
Shastanis Althereduin - lynched on Day0.3
The Might - lynched on Day0.4 - escorted away and sailed away
Gil-Galad - lynched on Day0.5 - disappeared in a gate to different world

---------~~

Day0.5 ended, Day0.6 begins. Azaelia, Brinniel and Groin may post.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Hello, Brinniel and Groin. I'm here, and I'm going back over the thread just to see what you've said. Cheers!

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Ok, since it's just me so far, here's what Brinniel and Groin have said, briefly summarized. This is just for my own reference, and I have been unbiased in recording this stuff.

Groin
Post #4: In-character introduction, nothing out of the ordinary
Post # 14: In-character, likes Noggy’s call to action, cautions that Noggy could be a wolf all the same. Remarks that Legate is quick to suspect
Post #57: Thinks Brinniel is a wolf for not expressing suspicion
Post 80: Gives thoughts on players—Thinlo has good insight, is helpful. McCaber is too quiet. Menel tries to dampen debate. Has no opinion on A Little Green so far. Is satisfied with Brinniel’s explanations, but still is going with his gut and saying she’s a wolf. Noggie is loud and helpful. I am a scapegoat, he is “uneasy” about my silence. Has no opinion on Might. Is uneasy with Legate, but thinks he’s a good guy. Valier trusts no one—a mark of an experienced player? Ka he finds difficult—plays the innocent one minute, suspects others the next.

Brinniel
Post #42: In character intro. Understands reasoning behind a first-day vote, but also thinks it’s not particularly useful. Points out that the wolves don’t know any more than the innocents, observes same-old same-old day 1 discussion.
Post 44: Does not dismiss the importance of Day 1s overall, but finds this particular one to be useless.
Post 67: Says she just hasn’t gotten around to expressing suspicion yet. Worries that people are going to get too caught up with what happened Day 1 and disregard important things that may come up later. Thinks Lommy is suspicious, giving only an appearance of being helpful. Wonders that if she happens to change her mind later on, people might find it suspicious.


I really don't want to base anything off the first day, since that was just an awkward little thing. I believe there was a lot of testing the waters going on from everyone, people just trying to get a feel for the group and for the setup--this is new and strange for everyone, after all.

However, here are my very early, preliminary, subject-to-change opinions.

Brinniel is reading as innocent. She's helpful and careful to explain herself. Gut instincts aren't worth much this early on in the game (ever?), but mine is saying she's innocent.

Groin, however, strikes me as odd (I know that may sound a bit hypocritical coming from me--my first day was spectacularly poor, even according to my own standards). It strikes me as odd that he criticizes both Legate and, later, Ka for expressing suspicion, but does so himself with very little to back it up. At the moment, I'm willing to chalk that up to him being new at this, and I'm more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

...Where are you?

[Brinniel]

Hello, I'm here. :)

First off, I just want to take a quick look at these previous Days. A lot has happened, and I think it's important to examine them and put out some thoughts here and now.

Day 0.1

This was certainly an interesting Day to watch, though quite honestly I cannot get any clear suspicions from that Day simply because all three seem rather suspicious. The case against Legate seems to be based off mainly Day 0, which I've already stated I think isn't a particularly helpful Day since odd behaviour isn't necessarily wolfish behaviour, if you get my meaning. Of course since they were the first three, they didn't really have a choice but to use Day 0 for discussion, which is unfortunate.

Menel made the daring move of voting first. His suspicions against Legate came pretty early and he seemed fairly confident of his guilt considering there wasn't a whole lot to go on. Could be a Menel Wolf who decided early on that Legate was a bigger threat than Valier and it'd be safer to eliminate him.

Valier was much more undecided and unsure when she made her vote. Of course since it was the deciding vote, it'd only be smart as a wolf to act unsure of who to vote for. Because casting the deciding vote too hastily would look wolfish.

I think it's more likely that one of the former two is a wolf. Because on the very first lynch Day especially, it is really easy for a wolf to manipulate the voting. Anyways, Legate didn't seem very wolfish at all throughout the Day. The only thing that makes me question him is his statement about what his role may be or is not after he knew he was dead. It does give off the appearance of being helpful, but I could also see a Legate Wolf making one last desperate attempt to throw us off for the next several Days before his role is known.

Like I said, all three seem fairly suspicious, but if I had to pick the most suspicious, it'd be Menel. Because for a Menel Wolf, Legate probably would be a greater threat, plus Legate had posted more frequently on Day 0, making it easier to create a case against him.

Day 0.2

I think it's unfortunate Roa had to die merely from bad luck. Random lynches certainly are no fun. But I don't think McCaber's no vote necessarily makes him wolfish. It's more likely he didn't vote due to a RL error. After all, if he were a wolf, it'd simply be smarter for him to vote. At that point, he was completely safe from lynching and I think voting would be the less suspicious move than simply leaving it to the randomizer. But I would really like to hear an explanation come from McCaber himself come Day 1.

Roa certainly was acting very careful. But someone later on (I can't remember who) mentioned her behaviour could've been due to giftedness and I would agree. Roa can be a very dangerous player, but right now I'm getting more innocentish vibes from her than anything.

Out of the three, I think Naria is most likely the wolf. She is defensive, which in one way is understandable since she had already received a vote. But that vote came because Naria had been MIA up to that point, and since Roa thought McCaber more likely innocent, what was she supposed to do? She wasn't sure Naria would show up at all; if she had voted McCaber, he would probably vote her and if Naria didn't show, the lynch would be randomized. So, Roa's vote made perfect sense to me. Naria's response is simply overly aggressive and sarcastic. She's desparate, and with one vote already I can understand- but she just seems to be trying too hard.

Day 0.3

Well, very little was said this Day. Shasta was a very easy lynch, with the said excuse that "he contributes less." But I think a Shasta that contributes less is most likely an innocent Shasta, since I've noticed he contributes more when he has a role other than an ordinary innocent.

From previous games, I already know Aganzir can be a dangerous wolf, but I've never played with Ka, so I know nothing about her. However, I feel almost postive that the wolf is among these two and not Shasta. Aganzir stands out a little more in my mind because she was the first to state she'd rather vote Shasta because Ka contributes, and that reasoning just doesn't seem very good to me.

Day 0.4

Another interesting Day. It was certainly entertaining to watch Nogrod and Lommy bump heads with each other. :p

I must say, I certainly was very sad to see Might's self-vote. But I think everything he said was sincere and if he were actually a wolf, I don't think he would've let his fellow mates down and simply quit like that. Which leaves Nogrod and Lommy...

Nogrod was a bit too aggressive for my liking...but I'm not sure if that aggressiveness is actually wolfish behaviour. I'm a bit more worried about Lommy and her reaction to Might's self-vote. I quite honestly cannot see how she would still seriously consider the possibility of him being a wolf after his self-vote (like I said, I don't think a wolf give up so easily because it would only be hurting his teammates). But what I even like less, is how she accuses Nogrod of wolfishness because he thinks Might is innocent. And of course Nogrod's going to think Lommy's guilty if he thinks Might is innocent because surely he wouldn't accuse himself. I actually felt okay about Lommy throughout most of the Day, but her last couple posts (particularly the last one) make me uneasy about her. I almost get the feeling that she's nervous about something...maybe because Nogrod has her pegged...

Day 0.5

It's a shame Gil didn't show up at all. Sally and Kath's vote for him makes sense. He was a no-show and it'd be silly to vote for each other and risk a randomized lynch (even if one had voted Gil and the other for someone else, it'd look way too suspicious).

Not much was said, and there was a bit a banter. Sally was a little odd (not in a wolfish way, but in general) and I don't really have anything to say about Kath. I think if Gil were a wolf, he would've gone to greater efforts to read the guidlines and return on his designated Day. So I do think either Kath or Sally is our wolf; I just have no idea which one it is.

---------------

Okay, so that was a long post, but I just wanted to get the ball rolling. We need something to discuss at first, and as I said before, I think it's important to put out some clear thoughts about Days 0.1-0.5. I do not want to use Day 0 as the basis of my vote; I think it'd be better and more accurate to base my suspicions on whatever will be said toDay. But that's just my opinion.

Anyways, it's good to see Zali has shown up. And hopefully Groin will appear soon as well. I don't think any of us have played with each other before which means we're all new to each other....so I think this should be an interesting Day. :)

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Hi, Brinniel!!

I would say that I think it's a bit more important to focus on each other than on what's happened in the past. For now, though, as we're still missing Groin, I might as well just do what you did and go back through the earlier Days. It will, if nothing else, provide me with some sense of who everyone is for the Days ahead...assuming I survive this one. :p

Day 0.1
Legate seems to be reasonable. As does Valier. They're both reading innocent...and it looks to me like Menel is the one throwing his weight around, suspicious of both the others (though Legate more so). He also really does push the vote, and he definitely places Valier in a very difficult spot.

After it is apparant Legate will be lynched, he seems very innocent to me. He has nothing to gain by trying to confuse people with his final moments, since, I believe, no one is going to interact outside of these pre-arranged groups before his role is revealed. So I'm guessing either innocent or gifted. Unless I'm wrong and we won't find out his role until the very end. For now I'm just going to guess that he's innocent, because I can't imagine what he'd have to gain from lying.

Day 0.2
This day was a bit confusing. Naria bases her vote for Roa isn't acting the way she normally would. It's been so long now since I played WW that I can't really remember Roa's specific style, but I don't think it's quite fair to use previous games as fodder for this one. McCaber never even voted, which I find odd. 3 hours before the deadline, he wrote that he'd be back with an actual vote. He never returned. I agree with Brinniel--I fully understand human error, and being new at the game, but I'm going to be listening with interest to what he has to say about that one.

Day 0.3
Not much to go on, here. I do feel bad for Shasta, though. He never really got a chance to defend himself. If everyone had talked more that day, things might have played out differently. Shasta looked to me like a case of being extremely busy in RL than like a wolf, though that could just be me sympathizing. It's hard even for me to get a read on Aganzir or Ka, since neither of them was overly vocal, either.

Day 0.4
It's interesting to see the different ways in which people respond to this new trial day setup. Some are very cautious, like Valier. Some say little, like the players from 0.3. Others choose to argue immediately (Noggie and Lommy.) heh.
Cutting straight to the chase: A wolf wouldn't self-vote. There are fewer wolves than there are innocents and gifteds combined. They need all the help they can get. Might seems really frustrated with RL and WW and all that, and I can't say I blame him. He comes off as an innocent who couldn't bear up under the kind of attack he faced.
Noggie bugs me a bit for chewing Might out over his responsibility to the game, **EDIT: and for his general aggression--it's a valid way to play, but not one that I particularly like...** and to be honest under such an assault I may very well have caved the way Might did. His immediate vote for Miggy also bugs me.
Lommy also looks suspicious at the end--I saw Might's reaction as an honest reaction from a frustrated innocent. It remains to be seen if that is true, but if it is, it kind of makes Lommy look bad.

Day 0.5
I can't say much about this day in general, as it's overshadowed by the lack of one of the three. I don't blame Kath or Sally for their actions, since the only way it could have ended otherwise was a randomized vote.

I hope Groin shows up soon. I don't want toDay to become another 0.5.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Oops. I edited my last post without really thinking about it. I just added that one sentence in asterisks--something that came to me just as I clicked "reply". And then realized what I did. :p Sorry.

[Groin Redbeard]

Wow, Azalia you have done a bunch of clarifying in your last threads. I'm beginning to see you more of help now. I've looked at your past posts and you seem to be almost as helpful as Thinlomien.

That is why I'm going to focus on Brinniel.

1. In post #42, she claims that discussing will do little to help us in the future.
2. In the beginning of post #44 she contradicts herself with this remark.
I should mention that I for the most part do find Day 1 to be a very useful, sometimes even critical Day. But in this case, toDay seems fairly useless. Why is that?

I'll see ya'll in the morning!:)

Goodnight

[Brinniel]

Wow, Azalia you have done a bunch of clarifying in your last threads. I'm beginning to see you more of help now. I've looked at your past posts and you seem to be almost as helpful as Thinlomien.
Be careful, Groin. Helpfulness does not necessarily mean innocence. And in the case of Lommy, for all we know she could be a wolf, which is exactly what I suspect..

2. In the beginning of post #44 she contradicts herself with this remark.
I should mention that I for the most part do find Day 1 to be a very useful, sometimes even critical Day. But in this case, toDay seems fairly useless.
Why is that?

Just to answer your question really quick:

I think I stated this before, but I saw the first Day (Day 0) useless because not even the wolves knew each other and any votes made probably wouldn't be the same votes made in a Day where there would be an actual lynch.

I did continue on to say:
Anyways in all technicalities, this isn't Day 1 at all. So in all arguments, Day 1 could still very well remain a critical Day when it does come around..
Which was true because it was Day 0. So I still think Day 1 will be a very important Day. :)

Anyways, I cannot exactly see how my statement is contradictory, but I hope that does answer your question.

[Brinniel]

I figure you guys are probably still asleep right now which is why you're not posting. But I've got classes in a little over an hour won't be back for several hours until this evening, about two hours before deadline or so. Just so you know.

There's really not a whole lot to go on yet, but so far here are my thoughts:

Right now I'm liking Zali. She gives some detailed analysis and I agree with a lot that she has to say. I really have no reason to suspect her at the time being.

I'm a little worried about how Groin easily seems to trust anyone who seems "helpful." That "helpful as Thinlomien" phrase is a bit odd to me. Groin, do you think Lommy is innocent (from that quote I'm guessing you do)? And if you do, I'd like to hear your explanation because I'm certainly not convinced she is.

Actually, I'd like to hear some opinions from Groin about Days 0.1-0.5 in general. Of course, I know it's important to discuss each other because that who we're voting for. But as I mentioned before...I think it's also important for us to put out some clear opinions about other players too.

Anyways, that's all I've got for now. I promise I'll be back later, and hopefully when I do, there'll be plenty more to read.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Good morning! Your assumption was right, Brinniel--I hadn't been posting because I was sleeping. :)

As of right now, I still have no reason to suspect Brinniel at all. I'm also beginning to see how the detailed analysis of the previous day 0s is actually helpful--I feel like right now I know Brinniel pretty well, where as Groin is still a question mark...

I am glad that I've managed to clarify where I'm coming from for you, Groin, but I hesitate at being compared to Lommy a bit--I started to find her somewhat suspicious by the end of that particular Day. I'd be interested to see what you have to say about days 0.1 through 0.5 as well. It may sound useless or irrelevant, but it's actually quite helpful in getting to know someone.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

*tumbleweed blows through thread*

Brinniel said she'd be away...Where are you, Groin?

[Groin Redbeard]

I'm here!:)


Actually, I'd like to hear some opinions from Groin about Days 0.1-0.5.

I'll do that right now.