Werewolf XLVI: Getting Back to Basics

[Meneltarmacil]

Welcome to the 46th game of Barrow-Downs Werewolf!

This game takes place in the pleasant village of Spruceburg, a small town on the Anduin River, and now an unfortunate target of some rather horrible beasts.

Players:

Aganzir (Cobbler)
Gwathagor (Lawyer)
Kath (Turtle Herder)
Legate of Amon Lanc (Frog Hermit)
Lhunardawen (Pinecone Collector)
Meneltarmacil (Dairy Farmer)
Mithalwen (Lumberjack)
Nerwen (Veterinarian)
Nogrod (Ale-Barrel Salesman)
Oddwen (Maker of Naughty Pine Furniture)
satansaloser2005 (Therapist)
The Elf-warrior (Poetaster)
Thinlomien (Mad Hatter)
Volo (Explorer)

It is now Night One. Wolves may PM, but can't choose a kill. Any gifteds present who have reason to give me names, please do so. Villagers, please refrain from posting.

EDIT: Psst... You'll need to be in Invisible Mode.

[Meneltarmacil]

It was a beautiful spring morning in the village of Spruceburg. There wasn't a single cloud in the sky, and the sun shone brightly through the pine trees.

The villagers were going about their normal routine that day.

Sally was trying to help Lommy with the latter's mental issues, but judging by the manaical cackling, things weren't going too well.

The Elf-warrior attempted to share his poetry with the village, but all he got were pinecones and shoes thrown at him by Lhunardawen and Aganzir respectively.

Mithalwen was delivering some freshly-cut logs to Oddwen to be made into furniture, but cringed to see what naughty things the furniture was up to.

Gwathagor tried to sue Nogrod for "causing riotous disturbances" due to his rather strong ale; however, the latter was too drunk to notice.

Kath was bringing her turtles to market, having started off last night due to the slowness of the task.

A surprised Legate of Amon Lanc charged into town from the woods, pursued by Volo, who had mistaken him for Bigfoot.

At that point, there was a scream from Meneltarmacil's farm. Everyone rushed to the scene, where they found a distressed Nerwen.

"I... I just came out to check on the cows, Menel said there was a problem with the milk... but..." She pointed in the direction of Menel's house, which had a large hole in the roof.

The villagers went inside, where a gruesome sight greeted their eyes. Meneltarmacil lay on the floor beneath the hole, and a cow lay on top of his crushed form.

Volo was the first to notice the signs of the culprits.

"See these tracks around the body?" he said. "Werewolves, I'm pretty sure of it. We've got some serious trouble on our hands."

Alive:
Aganzir
Gwathagor
Kath
Legate of Amon Lanc
Lhunardawen
Mithalwen
Nerwen
Nogrod
Oddwen
satansaloser2005
The Elf-warrior
Thinlomien
Volo

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Crushed under falling cow by Wolves on Night 1.

Day 1 has started. Wolves, stop PMing. Villagers, you may begin posting.

[Mithalwen]

No one else around or just not wanting to make themselves conspicuous by posting first?

Nothing to say when someone is crushed by a falling cow? Are you sure it was werewolves sounds more like French Guards to me - mistaking him for a silly English Knnnnnigget; probably told him that his mother was a hamster and his father smelt of elderberries first then launched the cow from the castle...

*looks around* .... ok no castle.... well maybe if they got a lot of swallows - a really huge number of swallows - African of course not European supported the cow on strands of creeper held under the dorsal guiding feathers....

It's a simple question of weight ratios! Weight ratios and air speed velocity!

Weight rations, air speed velocity. migratory patterns and anachronism....

I'll come in again.


OK werewolves might be more likely....

Shall we lynch Aganzir for being the cobbler? Or can I just have pointless revenge on Nerwen and Nogrod for something that happened in a previous life?

[Volo]

"I've seen bigger cows! For example the Golden Brown Cow of the Albatro City. Now that was a beast! But don't go near this one either, it's still aliv- Hey, Bungo! Don't eat that!"

But for no avail. Volo's gorilla ran up to the cow and a fight began between them. Volo who was between the two got all the blood and guts onto himself. Then, surprise surprise, the gorilla strangled the cow and started munching at its hooves.

"Thanks a lot, Bungo..."

[Thinlómien]

*Thinlómien casts a critical look at Mithalwen and Volo, but cannot help looking amused.*

Okay, well, the start of Day1, how I've missed thee... :rolleyes: :D Maybe I'll enjoy it this time. I almost promised I'd write Nogrod something he can jump at when I hand the keyboard to him. Hmmm...

Well, I can say I'm quite looking forward to this - we have a bunch of great people here, including The Elf-Warrior with whom I've never played (if memory serves) and Oddwen and Lhuna with whom I've last played a long time ago, and Kath my ex-semi-nemesis who has been having a pause for a while too.

And I could second Mith's motion for lynching Agan - for she's one to confuse me, for sure. ;)

Well, that really wasn't much. I should improve my small talk skills. Oh, and if anyone wants some tea, just ask me...

[Mithalwen]

I'll have tea if you promise you'll take the dormouse out of the pot....

Indian , no milk no sugar please.
Ok so we have tea and the making of a substantial barbecue but to get oc for a moment we have to take this a bit seriously. Thirteen of us means that the classic 3 wolves is likely, we don't know if we have any gifted and not knowing can be worse than knowing we definitely haven't got any. At least we won't get any "I'm the seer and so's my wife" kind of claims.


Not much scope for going wrong... so talk.... please? Pretty please?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

"Now now, my friends, let's not make a mess of it," the frog hermit made himself a way through the onlookers and overlooked the crime scene, now somewhat changed. "It's no doubt these were were were, were, what did I say, wolves. I wonder how, I wonder why, yesterday you told me 'bout the blue... erm, sorry again. Oh yes. I was just thinking now, I know from my experience and also from gossip that werewolves usually cooperate in packs. In packs of three, usually. That's not much, as one medic friend of mine used to say, pack of three is not even enough to play poker with. But this time, we may have a pack of three or also pack of two, or even pack of three with one as bonus when you buy two packs. Or that's how they do that in the shops. All right, what was the point? That we don't know how many werewolves we have here, don't we? Actually, it doesn't matter - as soon as we keep catching them."

"Now, if you'll excuse me. I think it's not already the time to call my frogs in, we don't need reinforcements yet, do we? We can manage it on our own. I am going to let the frogs where they are. As today passes, I hope to collect some data... about all of you folks, of course..."

EDIT: x-ed with Mith

[Nogrod]

Tea? Why bother with tea when we have ale... well sort of... we should have beer... anyone?... I mean I have the barrels... prime quality... anyone wishing to fill them? *Hickup*

Flying French cows, Godzillas, weight-ratios of swallows, confusing characters, lawyers suing... A moment ago I thought I was sober from yesterday but now I'm not so sure anymore...

But our lumberjack makes a pint indeed, ... sorry... a point indeed. We don't know of the gifteds. But with the outcome of her reasoning I would differ a bit. *Hick* I mean if we don't know our ranks then anyone can pose as anyone so "I'm the seer and so's my wife" looks more like forthcoming than not. Now the question remains to be asked whether she tried to sidetrack us from the very beginning in purpose or whether she just didn't think that one to thew end...

Also let's not let this piece of doubt cloud our vision either. It would be the most disasterous if we ignored the calls of our gifteds because of it.

EDIT: X'd with Legate

[Gwathagor]

I hate first days. First days are rubbish.

I'll come back later and post, after people have chatted a while. I never was one for the small talk; it always sounds unnatural coming from me. Then people get suspicious, and next thing you know I've got a rope around my neck.

Later.

[Aganzir]

So, who wants to buy shoes? High heels! Leather boots! And in case you're interested, I also make other leather goods. Belts! Gloves! Whips! Come one, come all! Brand new shoes will make all your dreams come true!

If only poor Menel had worn shoes made by me, he would still be alive. I made him cowboy boots once but seemingly he never used them... No cow would have dared to crush him if he had been wearing those!

Despite my underrated occupation, I suggest not to lynch me as you won't get pretty new shoes otherwise. Besides, I'm always sweet and innocent.
I agree with Mith that it sounds more like French Guards were doing the killing, so maybe we should start by lynching everyone who can speak French. And how come those two who suggested lynching me know French? Therefore Lommy and Mith must be guilty.

Oh, and some Darjeeling for me, please, Lommy dear.

edit: xed with Gwathy

[Mithalwen]

"Des fouettes eh? C'est interressant mais je dois dire que je ne suis pas louve-garoue. Et on peut parler Francais sans etre Francais ...."

I say that statistically it is almost certain that someone from the Finnish quarter of Pineburg is a wolf.... but I see I am cross posting...

Je reviens...

[Mithalwen]

But our lumberjack makes a pint indeed, ... sorry... a point indeed. We don't know of the gifteds. But with the outcome of her reasoning I would differ a bit. *Hick* I mean if we don't know our ranks then anyone can pose as anyone so "I'm the seer and so's my wife" looks more like forthcoming than not. Now the question remains to be asked whether she tried to sidetrack us from the very beginning in purpose or whether she just didn't think that one to thew end...



A simple tense related typo.. I should have said "at least we wouldn't get "I'm the seer and so's my wife" claims ... which makes far more sense in the context. I am not trying to side track just a bit weary....

[Thinlómien]

Darjeeling tea for Agan darling? How perfect. Dormouse? I assure you Mith there's no such in my pot... But yes, here's an Indian with no sugar. I always liked eating.. err... drinking... native peoples ... err nothing, never mind. :D

As for the roles, I think we have three wolves, one seer, one ranger and one hunter - after all, it was said this is a basic game. But it's quite useless to speculate on this at great lengths since we cannot know.

I hate first days. First days are rubbish.That was very constructive and cheery - even for a lawyer. :p

I agree with Mith that it sounds more like French Guards were doing the killing, so maybe we should start by lynching everyone who can speak French. And how come those two who suggested lynching me know French? Therefore Lommy and Mith must be guilty.Mais je ne peux pas parler francais! I mean... umm... I cannot speak French.

I say that statistically it is almost certain that someone from the Finnish quarter of Pineburg is a wolf.... but I see I am cross posting...Oh, how I love statistics. Also, statistically speaking, it is also quite porbable that one of those whose name begins with M or N is a wolf. Volunteers for a lynch? Dear Mithie *ducks missiles for using such a nickname* what, may I ask, was the point in that comment?

[Mithalwen]

Milk is the main issue - milk is murder.... beef however is justifiable cow-icide. Or in this case, garbage disposable...... I do think a barbecue would be a good idea. China tea tastes like it has been made with charcoal by the way.... so while I prefer a blend, Darjeeling will be fine.

Oh I was just building a case against Agan ;) Cobbler, Finnish, rather to strident in her Francophobia..... it all adds up....

[Nogrod]

Ahh, mais mes cheries! Ce n'est pas si simple comme nous voulons de se representer... mais... erm... nous oublions c'est ca? Bien... Mais êtes-vous certains s'il n'était pas un mouton volant qui a justement se camouflé de vache?

The first red lights though have alighted...
I'll come back later and post, after people have chatted a while.I never was one for the small talk; it always sounds unnatural coming from me. Then people get suspicious, and next thing you know I've got a rope around my neck.
If something sounds wolvish then this... and what do you need lawyers for anyway?

But Mith's way of backtracking her words should be notified as well.

And the statistical arguments then? Those can be made - and they can bite. Like we might say that it's probable that now as 7 people (half of us) have talked at least one or two wolves have meddled in the discussion. That I'd say is a reasonable deduction. Sadly the reasonableness of the conclusion is straight in line with the uninformativeness of the end result.

But whether from all those in the game an X number of left-handers or brown-eyed will be wolves I'm not so sure anymore. From the four Finns one might be a wolf - as well as from the four Americans one might be - or anyone from those not being Finns or Americans can be a wolf... Which doesn't mean I wouldn't be ready to suspect Agan as well as you do. She's just too sneaky to be true. Everytime. And I know that and thence I suspect her everytime which is good in a sense but also may backfire badly - as has been seen as well... :)

What I mean is that without making even a slightly justified case for your choice of the statistical groups these kind of arguments are just sham or only statistics.

The question remains, whether you Mith just wish to look good by making these statistical arguments or whether it's a deliberate trial to turn our attention away from certain people... or towards some others. Or whether you just have nothing else to go for - and I do appreaciate your early-Day activity. Without people like you we could never get forwards.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh my, if anyone's behaving like a Cobbler here, then it's... everyone... I have never seen such a crazy Day 1! Or is it the late hour?

But really now, what to talk about? La-di-dah... I don't think we should bother with trying to discover which gifted (if any) we have here, since this was brought forward. What else? Let's wait what others write. Should I bring something else forward?

I don't like Mith's activity combined with her behavior. But whatever. She and Nogrod are the Wolves, of course. Now I am speaking out my honest gut feelings. They are trying to confuse us and all, and making it seem like they have nothing in common with each other. Which of course would be very silly thing to do in this time. So they actually are not together. So it's just Mith. Or just Nog. But one of them sure is. And I should go to sleep.

No, actually, I don't think they are now that I read it again. I should really go to sleep.

(I think this would cause enough controversy for the good of this game. I should play in late hours more often. Good night.)

EDIT: x-ed with Noggins Woggins. Baggins. Shire...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Noggins actually speaks sense! He speaks very well. I just hope he does not use snake tongue, like one of my friends once did. But I would like to hope not, and I think he does not.

But now I'm really going to sleep. And please stop speaking French - il est vraiment possible que plusieurs hommes ne comprennent pas, so please stop that, dattebayo!

[Thinlómien]

I find it hilarious that Legate complains about everybody being crazy and acting like cobblers and then does both of those things himself - more than anyone else this far. If he's deliberatedly being confusing, I don't like it. If his brain is not functioning properly at this hour, he should go to sleep like himself suggested. And if he is just trying to be amusing, he's succeeding in that very well. :D (Erm... this might be Lommy-flip-flopping for you, anyone?)

But actually he makes a valid point about Nog and Mith interacting a bit weirdly - while not seeing the latest evidence because he's cross-posting with it! Should I conclude something from it? Is this a fishy pre-arranged wolf scheme? If so, it looks so pretty darn obvious and silly that he, Nog and Mith would probably not come up with such. Unless they want to double bluff.

Yes, this is utterly crazy. And sleep wouldn't be bad for me either, I guess - but I'm just not tired at the moment. Anyway, I have a feeling that this discussion is getting rolling (if not in very wise or well-defined directions though), and it's good.


edit: xed with Legate - I see he started speaking French too. Where is Nerwen to speak some more French? And where are the other French speakers? :p

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I find it hilarious that Legate complains about everybody being crazy and acting like cobblers and then does both of those things himself - more than anyone else this far. If he's deliberatedly being confusing, I don't like it. If his brain is not functioning properly at this hour, he should go to sleep like himself suggested. And if he is just trying to be amusing, he's succeeding in that very well. :D (Erm... this might be Lommy-flip-flopping for you, anyone?)
Oh no no no, this is NOT Lommy flip-flopping! Lommy flip-flopping looks different! This looks more like an attempt to make a "construct Lommy-flip-flopping". And now you are clinging upon what suspicions have been raised by pondering them, but of course not being bold enough to stand behind them really - just raising more concern around the already mentioned things. And saying "this might be Lommy-flip-flopping" is really the last thing by which you try to make an excuse for yourself. But on second reading, it's not that bad. And I really am not acting normally for myself, really, now reading what I wrote just a short while ago. But that's the hour - it's letting me give out my usual carefulness of approach. But at least my conscience is clean. Or as far as I can tell. Let's really go to sleep for now.

Hm. Lommy looks innocent, actually. The more I read it. Just wait when I sleep on it, what I'll have to say about it. Not sure if I'm gonna be here in the early hours of tomorrow, meaning my tomorrow, like about 10 hours from now, it's most probable that I'll be back only some 15 or so hours from now. But that'll be still plenty time. Good night, folks. And this time really. Hopefully. Indeed. Sorry for the long rant. I should stop playing when being awake late at night.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

So, short summary till now (and I think mostly in reasonable state, as much as it's possible now):

Mith - veery suspicious
Lommy - quite good
Nog - wise and okay

others - not enough data

*crawls into a giant toad's mouth and falls asleep*

[Oddwen]

Hi. Oh my, I am just itching to get away from my stupid furniture because I don't understand it and it makes me uncomfortable inside wah wah poor Menel is that enough obligatory roleplay.

"Birdie birdie in the sky, drop some white stuff in my eye
Me don't wonder, me don't cry
I'm just glad that cows don't fly!"

COWS!

I also am not a fan of first Days. Nothing. To. Say. Yet.

I will, however, take some herbal tea if you've any.

[Lhunardawen]

Oh Day Ones, how I missed thee indeed...

Not.

Legate, believe me, there ARE crazier Day 1s. But thanks for contributing your share of the craziness.

So. Thirteen people. Yes, this could very well be a rather ordinary game, having the usual special people in their usual number/s, but knowing the mod god, I'm sure there will be a twist here somewhere... I realise that wasn't very helpful. How can anyone say anything of importance this early?

Maybe we should just lynch the French speakers one-by-one, who knows if they're not actually doing their Night planning right under our very noses this morning? :p

[Nogrod]

Oddwen just sprang to share the top my list this far. One can hate Day1's to be sure but to make it an excuse like Gwath did earlier just makes me ready to pull my voting-trigger...

Legate sounds like he has enjoyed more of the good life than is encouraged by the state authorities... which makes him look more innocentish than not this far.

Lommy sounds reasonable and good... and that's just the problem with her. She could sound like that were she a wolf. But for the time being I'm not wishing to vote for her as there will be people less helpful in this game as well...

EDIT: X'd with Lhuna - you're making it to the same group with Oddwen and Gwath...

[Lhunardawen]

Mith
- first to post, should speak in her favour
- incriminates herself by using Physics terms, but redeems herself with "migratory patterns" and "anachronism"
- thinks there could be 3 wolves, and no one could claim to be gifted
- wants people to talk
- thinks there could be a Finnish wolf, statistically
- rather innocent, in my opinion

Noggie
- thinks anyone can pose as anyone, and suspects Mith of either sidetracking or not thinking about the gifted issue enough
- suspects Gwath's first post as wolvish, and Mith's backtracking of words
- again suspects Mith's statistical arguments, but appreciates her activity
- puts Oddwen and Lhuna at the top of his list for the same reason as Gwath
- thinks Legate innocentish
- Lommy confuses him
- either a sneaky wolf or a trigger-happy innocent

More to come.

[Lhunardawen]

Lommy
- expresses excitement and names a few people who partly cause it
- thinks this is a basic game with three wolves, one Hunter, one Ranger, one Seer
- cannot speak French
- thinks it quite statistically probable that one wolf's name starts with M or N
- asks "Mithie" for her point in her statistical argument - guilty Finn?
- thinks Legate either crazy, confusing, or cranially challenged (for need of sleep)
- presents self for flipflopping
- confused with the Legate-Noggie-Mith trio
- looks for other French speakers
- Lommy

Legate
- thinks everyone is a Cobbler
- creates controversy concerning Mith and Noggie
- seriously needs sleep
- think Noggie speaks very well, but hopes he isn't like Orochimaru
- has a clean conscience (or so he claims)
- thinks Lommy is innocent
- must stop playing when awake late at night
- must continue to if he wants to hold on to his craziest villager status
- sleeps inside Gamabunta's mouth
- bored innocent or wolf setting up an insanity defence

[Lhunardawen]

As for the others, Volo is a lost explorer, Agan is sweet and innocent (or so she claims), Gwath is a guilty lawyer and is likely to ignore Legate's plea for insanity, and Oddwen is crazy and innocent.

So my pine cones tell me.

But if everyone's just going to keep silent, I might as well go about my own business. See you all later.

[Gwathagor]

Oddwen just sprang to share the top my list this far. One can hate Day1's to be sure but to make it an excuse like Gwath did earlier just makes me ready to pull my voting-trigger...

Now look...I feel the same way about Oddwen's post, as she is just mimicking me and I think a couple others (?). That looks suspicious because repeating someone else is such an obviously safe move. However, Nogrod, you were awfully quick to identify my post as "wolvish"? You took no convincing whatsoever, so either you are trigger-happy and innocent, as Lhun said, or you really do know whether I am innocent or guilty. And THAT looks suspicious, because the only way you could know that is if you are a wolf yourself. I lean towards trigger-happy innocent, based on the sheer quirkiness and irrationality of your attack on my first post - if there's anything a wolf cannot afford to be, it is irrational. Or so my vast experience of Three Whole Games would lead me to believe. But don't give me reason to think otherwise.

I like Lhuna's clear lists - those are very helpful, as long as she limits herself to facts and not value judgments (as if such a distinction exists!).

There is a high level of goofiness in this village right now, and I am not sure whether to praise or condemn it. On the one hand, humor can be used to obscure the true nature of things. On the other hand, of course, it may also sometimes express greater truth because humorous statements are spoken by our most relaxed and natural selves. Of course, humor and silliness requires a bit of deciphering, sooo I suppose I am undecided.

Maybe everyone will settle down tomorrow. :)

Legate, as always, is reasonable and impenetrable. I never know what to make of him, but I don't like his "honest gut feelings." It's too easy a basis for suspicion, and requires no actual evidence. However, his other posts don't depend on "honest gut feelings", so maybe he's alright. MAYBE. We'll see.
;)

[Nerwen]

Oh, hello, everyone. Judging from the conversation so far, and drawing on my vast knowledge of veterinary practice, I'm inclined to think that our poor, poor village may be afflicted with more than just lycanthropy.

Can it be that we have not just werewolves, but rabid werewolves to deal with?:eek: Or, worse still, do we have a general outbreak of hydrophobia?

Please, come to my hut-veterinary clinic and I'll give you all a full examination.

[Oddwen]

Oddwen just sprang to share the top my list this far. One can hate Day1's to be sure but to make it an excuse like Gwath did earlier just makes me ready to pull my voting-trigger...

An excuse for what? Posting at all?

EDIT: X'd with Lhuna - you're making it to the same group with Oddwen and Gwath...

Seems hasty to me.


Please, come to my hut-veterinary clinic and I'll give you all a full examination.

If only it were that easy...

[Oddwen]

Now look...I feel the same way about Oddwen's post, as she is just mimicking me and I think a couple others (?). That looks suspicious because repeating someone else is such an obviously safe move.

I wasn't aware I was repeating. I wasn't aware I was repeating. I wasn't aware I was repeating.

*hem*

[Volo]

This is a protest only against bonus real life time. Wouldn't it be great to be able to add a half-an-hour here and there. One could even read what people have said. :/

++Volo

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Good morning all!

So, what did happen here:

Lhuna
- makes lists
- this way, some of her real thoughts or aims may remain hidden
- and so I can't say much about her right now.


Gwathy :p makes me feel a little uneasy by his post, but on the other hand...
I like Lhuna's clear lists - those are very helpful, as long as she limits herself to facts and not value judgments (as if such a distinction exists!).
This is okay, as it occured to me too, that Lhuna's lists are very much indeed just statement of fact and not much own opinion, but the same as he says, nothing in just "statement of fact" and in everything there are some own thoughts projected, if even a little, and so even these "statements" may be twisted by Lhuna to fit her purposes. Or simply her own interpretation of things if she is innocent.

Legate, as always, is reasonable and impenetrable. I never know what to make of him, but I don't like his "honest gut feelings." It's too easy a basis for suspicion, and requires no actual evidence. However, his other posts don't depend on "honest gut feelings", so maybe he's alright. MAYBE. We'll see.
;)
I would really like to see what looks reasonable about my yesterday's posts... are you trying to simply fit into the wolvish pattern and thus afraid of presenting your real opinion, Gwathagor-san?

But overall, it's not that bad with Gwath. He's in the yellow zone for me (that's next to the green zone, which is okay). Gwathwolf used to be worse as far as I could tell from an observer-point.

In short: As you may have noticed, those who stay in shadows and say nothing are likely not to be examined by me at all. What does that mean? That everyone should speak to the matter! (Yes, someone had to say it :) )

[Mithalwen]

But Mith's way of backtracking her words should be notified as well.

And the statistical arguments then? Those can be made - and they can bite. Like we might say that it's probable that now as 7 people (half of us) have talked at least one or two wolves have meddled in the discussion. That I'd say is a reasonable deduction. Sadly the reasonableness of the conclusion is straight in line with the uninformativeness of the end result.

But whether from all those in the game an X number of left-handers or brown-eyed will be wolves I'm not so sure anymore. From the four Finns one might be a wolf - as well as from the four Americans one might be - or anyone from those not being Finns or Americans can be a wolf... Which doesn't mean I wouldn't be ready to suspect Agan as well as you do. She's just too sneaky to be true. Everytime. And I know that and thence I suspect her everytime which is good in a sense but also may backfire badly - as has been seen as well... :)

What I mean is that without making even a slightly justified case for your choice of the statistical groups these kind of arguments are just sham or only statistics.

The question remains, whether you Mith just wish to look good by making these statistical arguments or whether it's a deliberate trial to turn our attention away from certain people... or towards some others. Or whether you just have nothing else to go for - and I do appreaciate your early-Day activity. Without people like you we could never get forwards.


Oh Nogrod you really don't know me at all.....

Teh thing about the gifted was just that in the "no edit" environment of a WW game when I checked over my post I was still reading what was in my mind not the page and didn't realise I hadn't posted what I meant. Had I been a wolf I would have perhaps been more cautious.

Teh simple fact is that this is the first game for a long moon that I have joined completely of my own free will because I can probably participate to a level I find satisfactory, it claims to be a nice basic game (which Miss Thinlomien could mean no gifted or just a seer as in WW1). So I decided to enjoy myself.

As an ordo the best service I can do Monsieur Nogrod is to be la rabouilleuse - that is the woman who stirs up the mud in the stream to send the little fishes into the waiting nets. If I can have fun on the way so be it. Yes it is dangerous to do such a thing ... makes you an easy target. But it would be the wrong one. There is nothing else to do on day one especially if you post early but talk nonsense really but if my gibberish has meant there is something for after comers to discuss. I am content.

[Thinlómien]

What is wrong with this village?

Especially Gwath and Legate:
I like Lhuna's clear lists - those are very helpful, as long as she limits herself to facts and not value judgments (as if such a distinction exists!).
This is okay, as it occured to me too, that Lhuna's lists are very much indeed just statement of fact and not much own opinion, but the same as he says, nothing in just "statement of fact" and in everything there are some own thoughts projected, if even a little, and so even these "statements" may be twisted by Lhuna to fit her purposes. Or simply her own interpretation of things if she is innocent.
What? So Lhuna's lists are "clear" and "helpful" and "statement of fact and not much own opinion" and she "limits herself to facts and not value judgements"? Am I missing the sarcasm or something? While I appreciate Lhuna's lists and find them amusing, I would never use those expressions to describe them. In my opinion, they are full of very subjective interpretation and more joking & bantering than clear and helpful statement of facts. There is nothing wrong with this kind of approach (meaning Lhuna's approach, of course), but there is something wrong with the fact that these two gentlemen interpret Lhuna's posts so very differently from how I do it. :p I mean, their view seems quite limited, if not even false.
Now, which one looks worse, Gwath or Leggie? I would say the latter, because he goes and agrees with such an absurd view. On the other hand, Gwath also called Legate reasonable, which I find quite suspicious like Legate himself apparently does. Okay, I must think about this, but I'm watching those two (like everybody else as well... :rolleyes::D).

And Volo then? Self-vote for RL reasons? A bit boring but I don't think a wolf would do so. At least a wolf would be less inclined to do so. But, on the other hand, I know Volo is one of those few people who could probably do that as a wolf without blinking an eye. So actually I have no opinion about his allegiances. Well, he said he's going to be back on Day2, so no problem, but actually why did he vote himself instead of a) voting a random person, b) voting no one, or c) waking up/going to sleep half an hour earlier/later and reading the posts and voting someone based on some low-level reasoning, is a very interesting question, but sadly a domain on which you can only speculate for you have nothing to go on.

Oddwen's jumpiness and chattiness is slightly alarming.

And unlike so often in the past, there is no one (but myself) whom I find innocent-looking. I wonder if this is progress or decline...


edit: xed with Mith

[Nogrod]

This is getting interesting... :)

I agree with Lommy about Lhuna & the guys. Lhuna's list look more banterish than serious or sensical and thence Gwath's and Legate's praises of their factuality really raise eyebrows.

Of those I expressed a mild suspicion earlier I'd say Gwath's actions haven't exactly made him look better (he's too verbiose and "explanative") but Oddwen I feel a bit better about right now. I'm quite at loss with Lhuna although I'm inclined to think her more innocent than not.

Also I'm slightly worried about a bit too serious or defencive stance of Mith. It feels like she is thinking I have made an open suspicion on her and she needs to defend herself by sharing her motives whereas what I said about her clearly was only Day1 first loose points. It would fit the classical "wolf feels herself suspected more easily" -case.

Also I'm somewhat worried by Volo's self-vote and am inclined to make a different conclusion than Lommy did. Innocents may vote themselves that's true. But there should be a motive or reason for doing it fex. getting frustrated with the others suspecting you and trying to lynch you or/and trying to protect someone you think is a gifted from lynch or whatever. But it clearly can't be any of the above with Volo. It looks more like: "hey look at me everyone, I'm innocent". And I don't see why an innocent would try that - but I can see a host of reasons why a wolf might.

[Lhunardawen]

Wow, this is a quiet village - or is it because there's not much to say on Day 1s? And I see my lists have become a subject of debate. Should this worry me?

Gwathagor, I cannot imagine why you would want me to stick only to facts. If I had done that, which I assure you (as well as Legate who thought I didn't give much of my own opinion) I didn't, you should have been more worried, because there's no way you could have formulated an opinion of me. If I had just chronicled every single thing everyone said and NOT expressed what I thought of them, then I could very easily be judged as lycanthropic because I'm hiding behind others' words to keep me from saying anything possibly incriminating.

I don't know, Gwath, but I get this honest gut feeling (:p) that you could be sucking up to Legate. If you're a wolf, and you know he's innocent, that's quite a strategy. But that's just me.

Mith feels innocent, she's honest enough to be one, and shows she has nothing to fear in saying whatever she feels like saying.

Nerwen's a bit worrying for skirting the issues, however petty, to which she could have contributed. That one post seems to me very safe - which makes it otherwise, if you get me.

Oddie's behaviour feels normal to me, however unsettling her words may be.

Now, as for Volo's self-vote, I'm not sure if Menel has a provision for automatic lynchings for non-voters. But in any case, I strongly advise not to vote for Volo because of his RL constraints. We have greater need to lynch our strong suspects than people who can't participate properly.

Speaking of participating properly, I see we still have a few people who haven't spoken. I hope they have valid reasons for being still absent. I'll be casting my vote (for either Nogrod, Gwath, or Nerwen as of this moment, but that could very well change) possibly within the hour.

[Aganzir]

She's just too sneaky to be true.
Thank you. :D

Oh my, if anyone's behaving like a Cobbler here, then it's... everyone...
Yes. You are a cobbler, just like everyone else.
And I promise to lynch you first if you keep using Japanese words because they are ugly.

And where are the other French speakers? :p
Zut aleur! Les poissons!
(and that was the only thing I can say in French so no need to lynch me :p)

But at least my conscience is clean.
That's what also Frollo said after killing an innocent woman in Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame.

Ok.

I don't think Gwathy's first-days-are-rubbish attitude in his first post makes him suspicious, as he's always quite like that. My first post wasn't any more constructive than his, Oddwen's or Lhuna's, but why wasn't I suspected because of that then? Because I didn't say I hate day 1's? Why does saying that make one more suspicious, may I ask? Is it always a wolf desperately trying to get some content to his or her post? Or is suspecting someone because of that just the same as suspecting the silent ones on Day 1 - a principle?
But this doesn't actually matter since Gwathy, Oddwen and Lhuna are the wolves and I'm just the cobbler trying to defend them against the nasty Nogrod.

If so, it looks so pretty darn obvious and silly that he, Nog and Mith would probably not come up with such. Unless they want to double bluff.
Why?
As far as I've seen, wolves actually make very little plans. It's often just like "well let's try to be as normal as possible and behave depending on the situation". I've seen villagers come up with most ingenious suggestions about wolf plans while in reality the wolves try just to lie low and be like themselves. If the wolves make plans, I don't think they always realise how obvious it will look to the villagers whose noses are trained to smell the rat.
Therefore I wouldn't be as ready to rule out even the possibility of Nog-Leg-Mith trio planning things like that seriously.
Or then Nog and Mith were planning to behave like that towards each other and an innocent Legate just noticed it even before they had got into full speed.

My feelings right now:

Innocent
Mith because she looks honest and said she's an ordo.

Guilty
I'm a bit wary of Gwathagor because of his explanatory behaviour: "I never was one for the small talk; it always sounds unnatural coming from me." I think that kind of attitude was present also in his wolf-self. And he said Legate was reasonable, which looks like he was trying to gain a strong ally early.
But don't give me reason to think otherwise.
Saying "don't give me a reason to think you're a wolf" always makes me think it's two fellow wolves talking who have decided to suspect each other a bit.
Legate who is deliberately behaving as oddly as possible so that he wouldn't be accidentally behaving oddly and then suspected because of it.
Lommy who is too happy and tra-la-ley.
Nogrod because he has Noggish reasons to suspect people and they never make sense to me.

Neither
Lhuna
Volo, who would have voted for himself, is he a wolf or not.
Nerwen
Oddwen
Kath
satansaloser2005
The Elf-warrior

edit: xed with Lhuna

[Lhunardawen]

I'm sorry, I can linger no more toDay.

++GWATHAGOR

because of my three highest suspects, he's the one I can defend from myself the least. I should give Nerwen more chance to speak, and Nogrod is always argumentative, although his arguments aren't always sound. But that's not to say I'm taking him off my list. It must be Gwath's disadvantage at this point that I've never played with him before, so I don't know if he's being his usual self, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Good night, everyone.

[Thinlómien]

Well, quite soon after complaining about finding no one innocent, I see two posts that look very innocent to me. I'm inclined to think Mith and Agan innocent right now. Mith sounds genuine and well, yes, she said she's an ordo and I'm not sure if she'd be dishonest to claim it that way if she was a wolf.

Agan then, she seems quite innocent and in a different way than she usually does. (Usually when she seems innocent to me she's a wolf.) She's not as careful and as unsuspicious as she's as a wolf. Of course, she's a smart person and I would not put it past her to have changed her playing style since it's getting pretty obvious, in a way.

Lhuna, too, seems quite innocent, but not as much as those two. I'm well aware that she's a Queen of Deceit. *shrugs* At least I enjoy having her around since she contributes quite a lot.

Zut aleur! Les poissons!
(and that was the only thing I can say in French so no need to lynch me )Yes, obviously we shouldn't lynch her as a French speaker since she obviouly can't even spell her sayings right. :p ;)

Because I didn't say I hate day 1's? Why does saying that make one more suspicious, may I ask? Is it always a wolf desperately trying to get some content to his or her post? Or is suspecting someone because of that just the same as suspecting the silent ones on Day 1 - a principle?Well, I can only speak for myself, but I don't find declaring that particularily suspicious - only rather unconstructive and annoying.

Why?
As far as I've seen, wolves actually make very little plans. It's often just like "well let's try to be as normal as possible and behave depending on the situation". I've seen villagers come up with most ingenious suggestions about wolf plans while in reality the wolves try just to lie low and be like themselves. If the wolves make plans, I don't think they always realise how obvious it will look to the villagers whose noses are trained to smell the rat.
Therefore I wouldn't be as ready to rule out even the possibility of Nog-Leg-Mith trio planning things like that seriously.I don't get this logic. And I doubt you explaining it would help. Looks like a simple disagreement. I daresay players such as Nog, Mith and Legate would realise it looks quite silly and obvious. Hey, now that I'm writing this your logic starts to make sense. Maybe they indeed wouldn't. But I can't see why they actually would make such a scheme. It's a good question. So in conclusion it probably isn't a wolvish scheme. 99% of wolvish-scheme theories are wrong. But of course this doesn't exonarate any of them, or even the very wolf triangle they could be.

I have a bad feeling I'm pretty bad at phrasing my thoughts unconfusingly today...


edit: xed with Lhuna

[Kath]

Well! I am here at last. My turtles took even longer that I thought they would. I haven't had a chance to look through the thread yet but I will try to do so although given my day so far I might have to make a random vote for which I do apologise as I hate doing it. Still, better any vote than none. Hopefully though I will have time to make a proper one. :)

[Nogrod]

I don't think Gwathy's first-days-are-rubbish attitude in his first post makes him suspicious, as he's always quite like that. My first post wasn't any more constructive than his, Oddwen's or Lhuna's, but why wasn't I suspected because of that then? Because I didn't say I hate day 1's? Why does saying that make one more suspicious, may I ask?I think it's time to come open with this one. I thought of fishing some reactions from people and I needed a bait. So I came up with this "I hate Day1's" combined with non-informative or otherwise careful first posts - which I do not like anyway myself - to be my criteria for someone looking suspicious. So it was a means, not the end of it even if it's based on my actual preferences for play on Day1's.

Now I think I may share what came out of it.

I suggested that Gwath, Oddwen and Lhuna looked suspicious by my standard.

Gwath's reactions have indeed made me suspicious of him as it feels like he's a wolf trying to parry the suspicions.

Oddwen's reactions don't make me feel too happy about her either but there is something quite Oddwenish in them. Well the wolves would try to look as normal as possible so that is no argument but somehow I tend to think her more innocent than guilty this far.

Lhuna really creeps me out. She hasn't exactly "reacted" to my suspicions but has been posting innocentish stuff all Day. But then I found that she thought me one of her main candidates without stating any reason for it. Now is that an innocent retaliation-reaction or a lycanthropic effort of spreading suspicion for a possibly dangerous adversary?

Agan's questioning of the grounds for the suspicions & her opposition to Gwath's suspiciousness speak good of her as wolves would love to cling into any generally shared suspicion whenever there's one and Gwath has been mentioned as suspicious by a few already.

Both Lhuna and Legate seem to ride the tide in regards Gwath. Lhuna even voted him. So innocents sensing lycantrophy or wolves hiking a free ride?

...

Only after reading a few comments I realised Mith had actually said she's an ordo. Now all of us who have played with her know she doesn't like to lie whatever the case. It's part of her charming personality. But I'm also feeling a bit uneasy with a situation where someone will be automatically looked upon as an innocent just because she says she is. I mean a few of you have already kind of declared her innocent just because of that.

I will not probably vote for her toDay either as I feel it would be a greater risk than voting for someone else but I just felt a need to bring this thing forwards. For on the other hand her actions do not look too innocentish. Quite the contrary. And I've played with her a few times indeed. She's a bit too explanatory I'd say. But let's wait and see what she will have to say.

...

Now, as for Volo's self-vote, I'm not sure if Menel has a provision for automatic lynchings for non-voters. But in any case, I strongly advise not to vote for Volo because of his RL constraints. We have greater need to lynch our strong suspects than people who can't participate properly.My point against Volo was not that he has RL constraints but that he decided to make a self-vote which I find only screaming of "look at me, I'm innocent!" which I could understand from a wolf but not from an innocent in a situation of no pressure - or a gifted of any sort as that would draw the attention of the wolves towards him in the Night.

But if Volo was a wolf and Lhuna his mate that defence would make sense... nicely vague and general (referring to general principles of not voting for those who have no time to play and thence sidetracking the real issue) but still working towards shielding the suspicions away from Volo?

[Mithalwen]

:rolleyes:

Also I'm slightly worried about a bit too serious or defencive stance of Mith. It feels like she is thinking I have made an open suspicion on her and she needs to defend herself by sharing her motives whereas what I said about her clearly was only Day1 first loose points. It would fit the classical "wolf feels herself suspected more easily" -case.

.

Nogrod you are either over analysing or a wolf making a case. You raised issues I answered them honestly and straight forwardly. As it happens it was all I had time for this morning. Since this worries you I shall ignore you henceforth .. and one thing I am not this game is serious.. It is Spring and I have recovered my joie de vivre. For those who find this unsettling no doubt the irritable Mith will return someday. :rolleyes:

[Thinlómien]

Okay, deadline draws nearer and I have no idea who to vote. Maybe a little summary-ish thing would help.

Innocent-looking
Aganzir
Mithalwen (whatever Mr Hiccup says)

Quite okay
Lhuna

Very neutral
Nerwen
Kath
Volo
Nogrod

A little less neutral
Oddwen
Legate
Gwath

Absolutely no idea
Elf-Warrior
Sally

The problem with Legate, Gwath and Oddwen is that I really don't suspect them more than anybody else. They might have said something to raise my eyebrows more than the others but still, they don't strike me as particularily suspicious. I'd be very hesitant to vote anyone of them on the current grounds. It would feel stupid and very random. I feel like I'm suspecting them just because I have to suspect someone and not because their behaviour genuinely looks wolvish to me. It's like I note some behaviour that could be a sign of wolvishness and make it my suspicion because I have nothing else to go on. It doesn't feel good. I really hope someone starts revealing their furry side and soon, because currently I have the feeling I want to vote someone who won't get lynched and have my conscience clear because I'm at loss with this... :rolleyes:

Okay, maybe a reread would be a good idea. I'll do it sooner and later and be back after it.


edit: xed with Mith

[Nerwen]

J'ai revise mon diagnostic: vous avez tout la maladie de la vache folle.

Yes, I'm back again... and, despite my profession, I still can't really make head nor tail of this.

All I can say is that I'm sure it's no accident that the silliness has gone on as long as it has. My studies in natural history tell me that the typical lycanthrope is prone to encourage such behaviour in others... often in a way that makes it very hard to tell who is doing the encouraging.

Some present thoughts:

Lhuna: Well, let’s put it this way– I get doubtful of people who list others as top suspects without giving reason. I get paranoid when one of those suspects is me. And those “lists” of hers sound more like filler to me– taking up space without really saying much Also, her Gwath vote is perhaps a little too easy...

However, I can’t say I like the look of Gwathagor, either– he just chimes in with other people– but then, as someone else noted, he always does. (Uh... which I guess means that now I’m chiming in...)

Legate: Has been gibbering. Very unusual behaviour for him. Mind you, he did (#16) say something I agree with somewhat, which is that the interactions between Nogrod and Mith seem not quite right in some way (though I wouldn’t have gone so far as to announce they were a pair of wolves, as he did). I think it quite possible one of them is a wolf, anyway.

Edit: X'd with Nogrod, Mith, Lommy.

[Kath]

Right, well it looks like this is the only chance I'll have to post again today so let's have a look through at everyone.

Agan - some nice random accusations, pretty normal Day 1 fare. Has Legate, Lommy and Nog as the wolves.

Gwath - gives the sentiments of most, and I can't argue given my very late arrival. Thinks Oddwen is suspicious for copying his cop-out, but Nog is too for leaping on it. Argues himself in circles about Legate.

Legate - some random stuff, and then it's suspicion of Nog and Mith which is immediately backtracked, especially over Nog. Again then with Lommy as well. So having stated Mith, Nog and Lommy are suspect he then immediately turns his statement round on all three, yet still ends up with Mith in his suspicion list. Looks at Gwath but makes no sure decision.

Lhuna - mentions the uselessness of Day 1's. Has Mith and Legate as innocent, unsure over Lommy and Volo and little on anyone else. Votes Gwath with fair reasoning.

Mith - started off the thread very amusingly, but little of substance. Claims we won't get any double revelations, but I think it's still possible, one should never underestimate the deviosity of werewolf players. On the statistics again, something I am rarely a fan of so early on. Is clearly having fun though. Playing for fun rather than to win, which suggests innocent to me. Some suspicion of Nog.

Nerwen - little there. Suspicion of Gwath, Lhuna, Legate and either Nog or Mith.

Noggie - picked up on Mith's mentioning of Gifted's as well, same ideas as me there. Arguing himself in circles over her though, so as normal. Kneejerk reaction on Oddwen, Gwath and Lhuna and thinks Lommy innocent. Agrees with Lommy about Gwath and Legate but thinks Oddwen innocent. Thinks Volo and Lhuna could be a wolvish pair.

Oddwen - some randomness.

Lommy - I am your semi-nemesis? I was not aware of this! I knew about morm and Lhuna (lover-traitor) but alright, I'll have another. :D A little bit accusative, or at least feeling somewhat sharp in the way she questioned Mith. Not sure about her mentioning her own flip flop, especially since it wasn't really one. Picks up on Nog and Mith 'interacting', though I'd say they hadn't done an enormous amount of that. Thinks Legate and Gwath are overthinking what Lhuna did and some suspicion of Volo and Oddwen, all with some fair reasoning. Has Mith, Agan and Lhuna innocent. The person who has just decided you're a wolf and you say 'oh yes they're innocent', well that's an old wolvish trick and I'm not sure Lommy would be that obvious, but it's possible.

Volo - votes for himself, which is about the most unhelpful thing you can do on Day 1 but we're clearly going to get nothing else out of him for the Day.

Nothing from sally or the Elf Warrior, hopefully they'll appear before the Day is out. But now, I must vote.

Innocent:
Agan
Lhuna
Mith
Nerwen
Volo

Guilty:
Gwath
Legate
Nog
Lommy

Everyone else I'm not sure about. Of those I find suspicious I am tempted to vote Gwath or Legate for a couple of reasons. First I don't want to vote Nog because I have an automatic reaction of suspicion. Lommy I don't feel is suspicious enough to warrant a vote. Both Gwath and Legate argue themselves in circles about each other as if deliberately trying not to come to a final decision, but Legate does it for other people as well so is more irritating with it. Therefore:

++LEGATE

[Gwathagor]

However, I can’t say I like the look of Gwathagor, either– he just chimes in with other people– but then, as someone else noted, he always does. (Uh... which I guess means that now I’m chiming in...)



Excuse me? When did I do that? But at least you preemptively acknowledged that you also are "chiming in" with other people (in this case Nogrod). That's good. Acknowledging your own suspiciousness is always a good ploy for averting further suspicion. (Ha!)


As far as I've seen, wolves actually make very little plans.


I don't even know what to make of this. It just seems so far out that I can't tell whether she really thinks it and is just kind of crazy, or whether she's trying to fool us.

X-ed with Kath

[Aganzir]

because currently I have the feeling I want to vote someone who won't get lynched and have my conscience clear because I'm at loss with this... :rolleyes:
Ha! Another Frollo!

I feel like I'm suspecting them just because I have to suspect someone and not because their behaviour genuinely looks wolvish to me. It's like I note some behaviour that could be a sign of wolvishness and make it my suspicion because I have nothing else to go on. It doesn't feel good. I really hope someone starts revealing their furry side and soon, ---
I haven't quite decided yet whether this honest whining is that of a wolf or innocent.

Lhuna really creeps me out. She hasn't exactly "reacted" to my suspicions but has been posting innocentish stuff all Day. But then I found that she thought me one of her main candidates without stating any reason for it. Now is that an innocent retaliation-reaction or a lycanthropic effort of spreading suspicion for a possibly dangerous adversary?
A fair point about Lhuna not reacting to your suspicion. But I'm not sure what you meant by saying she didn't state a reason for suspecting you. Do you mean she didn't say that in the post in which she declared you as one of her top suspects, or that she didn't give proper reasons for you being either a sneaky wolf or a trigger-happy innocent?

Agan's questioning of the grounds for the suspicions & her opposition to Gwath's suspiciousness speak good of her as wolves would love to cling into any generally shared suspicion whenever there's one and Gwath has been mentioned as suspicious by a few already.
Actually, I suspect Gwath too. I just didn't find hating day ones a reason to do so. :p

But I'm also feeling a bit uneasy with a situation where someone will be automatically looked upon as an innocent just because she says she is. I mean a few of you have already kind of declared her innocent just because of that.
She's someone I'm not going to vote today, not one innocence of whose I'll be sure for the rest of the game.

Given their interaction, I might be inclined to consider Lhuna and Legate fellow wolves.

Another one I'm not going to vote today is Kath. She shares my suspects and arguments in an innocent-looking way.

edit: xed with Gwath

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Especially Gwath and Legate:
What? So Lhuna's lists are "clear" and "helpful" and "statement of fact and not much own opinion" and she "limits herself to facts and not value judgements"? Am I missing the sarcasm or something? While I appreciate Lhuna's lists and find them amusing, I would never use those expressions to describe them. In my opinion, they are full of very subjective interpretation and more joking & bantering than clear and helpful statement of facts. There is nothing wrong with this kind of approach (meaning Lhuna's approach, of course), but there is something wrong with the fact that these two gentlemen interpret Lhuna's posts so very differently from how I do it. :p I mean, their view seems quite limited, if not even false.
Not sure what I said was well understandable. I definitely did not agree with Gwath's marking of Lhuna's posts as "clear" or "helpful". What I said was not about Lhuna, but about Gwath: I meant that his evaluation of Lhuna's posts seemed logical (the way I understand Gwath, i.e. doesn't mean I agree with him) and spoke for his good. And I thought similarly, that is, that Lhuna may have simply posted "lists", which is nice (speaking now overall of lists, not of these in particular), but it doesn't help as it's just a list and you don't learn anything about the list-maker himself (or you actually may, as his thoughts leak in it whether he wishes or not. But I spoke about it all in the post about it earlier pretty well, I think).

And I promise to lynch you first if you keep using Japanese words because they are ugly.
All right, I'll stop. I don't know many of them anyway. So:

Aganzir-chan looks innocentish to me, although I am aware that when she looks innocent, she generally isn't and vice versa, however I would like to hope this time it's different.

Gwathagor-kun is more in the yellow line, which makes him one of the most probable lynchees... however... err, I don't like it. Actually I am toying with the idea to lynch someone who has given no evidence at all but just banter (other than Volo, that is). We can always lynch Gwath tomorrow. But there's the thing that I never did that (meaning lynching a silent one), and I would have also to see whom to pick... (The main idea for this is the "deterrent example" to be made for those who don't post... right from the top of my head I am thinking about Oddwen or such, who have posted several times, but posted absolutely nothing of worth, and that is even at the time when there were topics to discuss.)

Lhuna-san looks sometimes strange, maybe she is catching to a good possible lynchee Gwath and not going after me because I may be her support... whatever. She'd be also around the yellow line, also, possibly.

Nogrod-sama looks helpful, although his latter posts give me the worries of possible sinisterness, in accord to what I said earlier. But he's not high on my list (meaning, not high in suspicion).

Lommy-chan looks more like her innocent self even with the latter posts.

Mithalwen-sama I am not viewing that well still, however I am not that sure about her and I will refrain from voting her today.

I see Nerwen-sama has posted as well now, good. One thing to what you said: yes, I have been definitely gibbering more than usual, I am well aware of that, looks like I am like that now. But that's not a matter to worry about. Overall, Nerwen looks innocentish to me from the little I have.

About others, I can't say A nor B, because I can't recall them saying anything interesting.

And P.S. I'll be for ignoring Volo-san's vote today. For myself, I think it was of no significance at all. He simply left for today, and that's it. Not making + nor - from it.

EDIT: x-ed since Kath

[Aganzir]

I don't even know what to make of this. It just seems so far out that I can't tell whether she really thinks it and is just kind of crazy, or whether she's trying to fool us.
Which part you didn't understand? That single sentence or my point?

[Aganzir]

Aganzir-chan looks innocentish to me, although I am aware that when she looks innocent, she generally isn't and vice versa, however I would like to hope this time it's different.
Last time Legate-sika said so he was a wolf. I have no reason to assume he is this time different.

[Gwathagor]

I don't like these myths that have sprung up around me - if they go on much longer, they'll become tradition, and then they'll haunt me for the rest of the game, even after they are unrecognizably far from the truth.

Myth #1: I chime in with people. Reality: I've posted twice, and spoken my mind both times. Granted, my first post was not helpful.

Myth #2: I'm trying to flatter Legate so that he'll help me out later. Reality: I stated that Legate, as usual, seems rational. This is a truth universally acknowledged throughout the Downs, and, if anything, it puts me more on my guard because I am a sucker for rational arguments.

Myth #4: Me and Legate are arguing circles around each other. Reality: I posted a brief paragraph mentioning Legate.

Ok. I am going to try to read through the thread again. I need to narrow my suspicions, which at this point, include just about everyone.

X-ed with Aganzir

[Nogrod]

To sum up my views right now - and as I need to be making dinner for myself & Lommy soon it may take a while I'm back.

I find suspicious based on arguments:
Gwath
Lhuna
Volo

I have some concerns but probably not enough to vote toDay:
Oddwen
Mith
Legate

I feel more innocent than not:
Nerwen
Lommy
Kath!!!

I think more innocent than not:
Aganzir

I have no idea this far:
Sally
The Elf Warrior

Just a few points to explain...

Suspicious:
Gwath looks suspicious as himself but Lhuna and Volo look tied together - or should we say that if they both were wolves their actions would make even more sense.

Somewhat suspicious but not enough to vote:
Oddwen looks both playful and reserved at the same time. Her reactions to my test-suspicions were kind of tense in a way but at the same time joking. I'm not sure what to think of it. Somehow she doesn't sit right with me but I'm reluctant to turn that uncomfortableness into a vote as yet.

I share the suspicions on Legate but would not want to see him go this early in the game with this light reasons. They are too slight to make a vote. But he does make me feel uncomfortable.

And Mith then. I kind of trust her openness and realise I just wish to do that but somehow she's more explanative and defensive I'd presume an innocent Mith would be.

Feel good even if with reservations:
With Lommy I'm just perplexed. She looks and feels innocent but that's just the point with her! She just looks and feels too good - not regarding the pre-empting admission of flip-flopping which kind of bothers me still as being a bit too careful thing to do. But I find her more innocent than not by just a feeling.

With Nerwen it's easier as she doesn't send me any "bad vibes" - even if there's nothing to talk on behalf of her innocence either... although I do agree with most of her points in her last post and that might be a factor why I think she belongs to this category of "feels innocent more than not".

And Kath! I can't believe this! But yes I'm not suspecting her at the moment. Hear the soughing of the leaves of history! :) I still am afraid of her everytime I play in a game with her but somehow her approach feels more innocentish than not this time. What's happening?

I think more innocent than not:
Agan for her questioning of the reasons behind my suspicions and openly disagreeing them. A wolf would love to follow a trail of suspicion and not downplay it.


About Sally we will not hear toDay (and we shouldn't lynch her for that) but where's the Elf Warrior?

EDIT: X'd with a host of discussion...

[Aganzir]

Myth #2: I'm trying to flatter Legate so that he'll help me out later. Reality: I stated that Legate, as usual, seems rational.
It looks like that because of my inability to see anything rational about Legate's posts at the beginning of the day.

edit: xed with Nog

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate - some random stuff, and then it's suspicion of Nog and Mith which is immediately backtracked, especially over Nog. Again then with Lommy as well. So having stated Mith, Nog and Lommy are suspect he then immediately turns his statement round on all three, yet still ends up with Mith in his suspicion list. Looks at Gwath but makes no sure decision.
I don't like the simple and nothing-saying analysis of me, but whatever. How should I say that... if I were a wolf and wanted to lynch me, I would surely find better way to express evidence why I am guilty. But this is not like it. I thought about a possiblilty that she may be the wolf and not making direct accusations, simply hoping to get me down. And for example there could be other reasons, like that Gwath is a fellow wolf and she wants to bring forward another lynchee the people might eventually vote for. I may be of course overcomplicating it. But anyway. Also...

Mith - started off the thread very amusingly, but little of substance. Claims we won't get any double revelations, but I think it's still possible, one should never underestimate the deviosity of werewolf players. On the statistics again, something I am rarely a fan of so early on. Is clearly having fun though. Playing for fun rather than to win, which suggests innocent to me. Some suspicion of Nog.
This actually troubles me more. Thinking of the former, Kath did not have much time as she said, so whatever. But this? There have been looots of people who obviously "played for fun rather than to win" or such, but Kath never called it like that except for Mith's case. So, is she making a defense of fellow wolf? If Mith is a wolf, Kath may be as well?

Ha! Another Frollo!
And stop saying that, I always read "Frodo" :rolleyes: :)

EDIT: X-ed since my last post.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Last time Legate-sika said so he was a wolf. I have no reason to assume he is this time different.
Oh really did I? I thought this is the first time. Now what to make out of this (since you apparently were innocent back then, but I wasn't, so...)

Myth #2: I'm trying to flatter Legate so that he'll help me out later. Reality: I stated that Legate, as usual, seems rational. This is a truth universally acknowledged throughout the Downs, and, if anything, it puts me more on my guard because I am a sucker for rational arguments.
Well, being a little immodest, it may be a truth universally if you say so, but it definitely was not true in my opening posts, really. I lacked sleep and even if you said the core of my thoughts was good or you agree with it or something, okay, but it most definitely was not rational! And when even I say that, you surely can't give me that :D

Myth #4: Me and Legate are arguing circles around each other. Reality: I posted a brief paragraph mentioning Legate.
This, on the other hand, is true. But that speaks nothing about Gwath, but about the person who said that... *googles around*

[The Elf-warrior]

I have poem for you all. It's entitled "A Bucket Has Been Kicked"

Who is a wolf, I can not tell.
The thoughts in my head aren't clear as a bell.
Is it Mithalwen?
Or could it be Lhunardawen?
Or is it another?
All I know is the dairy farmer has been smothered
By men who take the shape of lycanthropes.
This problem has got this village by the throat.


Ok, on to business. Nogrod's critique of group based arguments in post 15 should be heeded. I'd like to add that the odds of being a wolve are x out of 14 (x=how many lycanthropes there are in this village.) If I had to guess, Nogrod's probably clean. Also, it doesn't matter whether someone has been a wolf before, the odds of someone being a wolf this time are still the same. Lhuna, Legate didn't say everyone was a cobbler, he said everyone was acting like a cobbler. On the other hand, the contents of your list may have been intended for humour as Lommy said, thus making your statement less suspicious in my opinion. As to Lommy's complaint about voting because one has to suspect someone seems perfectly innocent to me. As to Mithalwen, I'm inclined to agree with Kath that she's not a wolf on the grounds that she's playing for fun. I'll vote closer to the deadline.

[Nerwen]

I don't at all like voting this early, because it's still close to being random. However I have to, so–

++Lhunardawen.

Because she's one of the people I suspect(ish) who hasn't received a vote yet.

That's the best I can do now. I won't be around near the deadline, so good luck to you all (well, except the furry ones).

Au revoir.

[Mithalwen]

I was getting suspicious of Legate but I am so flattered he used Sama that I may have to rethink ;)

[Nogrod]

Just off to the kitchen...

Volo -> Volo
Lhuna -> Gwath
Kath -> Legate
Nerwen -> Lhuna

Legate looks better right now and Gwath's "myths" feel more reasonable than not.

I might go for Lhuna today based on reasons I gave in #41.

Also...
A fair point about Lhuna not reacting to your suspicion. But I'm not sure what you meant by saying she didn't state a reason for suspecting you. Do you mean she didn't say that in the post in which she declared you as one of her top suspects, or that she didn't give proper reasons for you being either a sneaky wolf or a trigger-happy innocent?What I meant was that she mentioned myself as one of her top-candidates without giving a reason why was that. Of the others (Gwath and Nerwen) she made points about. Saying one is "a sneaky wolf or a trigger-happy innocent" can hardly be counted as an argument as such... without further reasoning. :)

And she's too good a player to just retaliate a suspicion for suspicion if innocent.

EDIT: X'd with a few + added Nerwen's vote

[Gwathagor]

I don't like the way Nogrod directs the flow of suspicion with his all-encompassing posts. It seems very controlling to me, like he's some kind of master-wolf. Or a mafia boss.

Lhuna's vote against me seems flippant ("that's the way the cookie crumbles").

Volo..... based on his self-vote looks, to me, more like a remarkably bold wolf than just a crazy villager. The most obvious conclusion that we're going to draw is that he must be innocent, because no sane wolf would do something so stupid. Right? So, Volo has now established himself as having a reputation for innocence without making enemies by voting against someone else.

This puts Volo at the top of my list with Nogrod and Lhuna.

Everybody else is mildly suspicious - which means that no one is. Ha.

I want to hear more from Oddwen and The Elf Warrior. We have lynched people for silence in the past...and we could do it again. Of course, silence usually is the safest defense.

EDIT: Wow. Crossed with everyone since/including Legate.

[Gwathagor]

Yikes better vote and avoid that last minute rush. Nothing good ever comes out of last minutes rushes.

++Lhunardawen

At first I was going to vote against Volo, but I decided I needed more substantial evidence. Maybe tomorrow.

[Gwathagor]

I messed up, we still have another hour until DL. Sorry.

[Aganzir]

What I meant was that she mentioned myself as one of her top-candidates without giving a reason why was that. Of the others (Gwath and Nerwen) she made points about. Saying one is "a sneaky wolf or a trigger-happy innocent" can hardly be counted as an argument as such... without further reasoning. :)
Maybe because she hadn't said anything about them earlier.

Gwathy, see my post #49, I asked you something. Last game you were a wolf you got too far by ignoring suspicions and questions, and I won't let it happen again. :p

I think it's rather hasty to say Volo looks like a wolf because of his vote. My opinion is that he's crazy enough to do it even as innocent, but even if someone else had done it I wouldn't consider it so suspicious.
I would say it's strange indeed that there's such an ado about it...

I am likely to vote either Legate, Gwath or Lhuna today.

edit: xed with two Gwathys

[Gwathagor]

Sloppy reading on my part, sorry.

My point was that it seems strange to claim that wolves don't make plans. After all, they DO conspire for 24 hours.

[Mithalwen]

Mind you they (I assume) are as much in the dark as us about gifteds. They can't be certain they haven't been picked as a first night seer dream. As a consequence they have perhaps increased dilemma about mentioning their packmates names - not mentioining is as potentially incriminating as the reverse. I remember in my second mod-game it was early doors because Boroseer88effectively bagged two wolves in one. Anyway I have an idea who I am voting for but I shall keep that to myslef pending a swift reread.

[Aganzir]

Sloppy reading on my part, sorry.

My point was that it seems strange to claim that wolves don't make plans. After all, they DO conspire for 24 hours.
No problem. :)

My point was that they often make less plans than the villagers think - I've been in a pack which came up with brilliant plans, but more often I've also been in packs where there wasn't much planning and we just decided to do what felt best in the days. And therefore what villagers think an obvious wolf plot isn't always that for the wolves, who often don't have as much experience with plotting as villagers think.

So the possibility of three good players making an "obvious" wolf plan without the intent to double bluff shouldn't be completely ruled out either.

I'm not sure if this makes any sense to anyone.

edit: xed with Mith

[Thinlómien]

I go for a nice evening walk and what do I see when I come back? A flood of posts and even a couple of votes. :eek: Great. :D

Nerwen looks quite reasonable and innocent to me. Which, according to my previous experiences of her, doesn't mean anything. I hope to hear more of her toMorrow.

Legate seems more innocent now. He seems reasonable and posts a lot without saying anything that seems very wolvish, so I'm not very alarmed about him anymore. Besides although I did not understand his reply to me considering the Lhuna-Gwath thing it seemed quite innocent. :D

Kath seems like her normal self - the same self she is whether she's innocent or not. Her behaviour doesn't alarm me, anyway, so I'm not very alarmed. (Wow, that was smartly phrased...) I don't agree with her logic all the time, though, and it startles me how she lists five people as innocent and four as guilty without blinking an eye and cheerily says she's not sure about others. Her way of expressing herself is quite black.and-white and slightly creeps me out. Hmm... seems like there's something alarming after all.


Lommy - I am your semi-nemesis? I was not aware of this!I said ex-semi-nemesis... besides I think I might have misused the word but I think we used to suspect each other all the time but not anymore...

Given their interaction, I might be inclined to consider Lhuna and Legate fellow wolves.That crossed my mind too.

Gwath the mythbuster looks more innocent than he did a while ago.


edit: xed with Gwath, Agan, Gwath, Mith and Agan

[Mithalwen]

++Nogrod

Talks a lot without sticking his neck out. A few people have said that one of us must be a wolf. I know it ain't me (and that this won't look brilliant if I am wrong).

He seems to be attacking then backing off.... and ... well there have been a couple of games where I haven't backed similar hunches and rued it.

[Nogrod]

I'd hope to hear more from Oddwen and the Elf Warrior. And Mith & Legate could be more open with their thoughts as well... or are you people just leaving all options open for the last minute madness to vote in a way that suits your ends?

If nothing better comes forwards I'd be ready to check this Lhuna - Volo connection by voting Lhuna as I see you others downplay Volo's actions toDay.

Yes I know Volo might do something like that if innocent as well but that self-vote at that kind of situation screams more a wolf to me than not. Gwath indeed put it quite nicely: The most obvious conclusion that we're going to draw is that he must be innocent, because no sane wolf would do something so stupid. Right? So, Volo has now established himself as having a reputation for innocence without making enemies by voting against someone else.Although I must say that seeing someone accompanying my argumets is one of the most suspicious things I know in WW... so I'm not going to trust you more for that Gwath. And the same goes for the Elf Warrior. Saying openly you think I'm innocent doesn't make me think the same of you even if it rubs me the right way like Gwath's agreement about the suspiciousness of Volo & Lhuna.

EDIT: X'd with Mith

[Aganzir]

Volo -> Volo
Lhuna -> Gwath
Kath -> Legate
Nerwen -> Lhuna
Gwath -> Lhuna
Mith -> Nog

7 (or more likely 6, since sally won't probably appear) votes still to come.

I might be willing to vote for Legate, but it doesn't really matter to me whether it's him, Lhuna or Gwath who dies today since I suspect them all quite equally.

[Aganzir]

Actually I think Lhuna's death might give us the most insight... At least when it comes to Gwath, Legate and Volo's innocence or guilt.

[Nogrod]

Talks a lot without sticking his neck out.If you think I haven't sticked my neck out can you please tell me who has? I've tried my best today. Sorry if that's not enough to you. With that argument I think we should have lynched a host of people...

But that's not the main point. The point is why do you chose that one to back your vote for me? Because you hadn't a better one as there isn't one because you are a wolfie who needs to find something to say to accompany your vote? Sorry Mith but you didn't make yourself look any better with that... on the contrary.

Okay. We share the computer - Lommy and me - so I'll give it to her now and vote for

++ Lhuna

EDIT: X'd with Agan X2

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'd hope to hear more from Oddwen and the Elf Warrior. And Mith & Legate could be more open with their thoughts as well... or are you people just leaving all options open for the last minute madness to vote in a way that suits your ends?

I actually outlined my thoughts and it's not more concrete than that. I am pondering Lhuna right now at this very moment, and you too, Nog, since your latter posts seem to unnerve me more and more. And also since Mith voted you. If it's not a wolf-on-wolf vote... I think I would leave Gwath out today, since later he seemed better... which actually... hmm... I have to think. And when it comes to it, I could also vote Oddwen. But that'd be probably just as a sign of warning, because I don't think anyone else would vote her, so...

EDIT: x-ed since Aganzir

[Gwathagor]

No problem. :)

My point was that they often make less plans than the villagers think - I've been in a pack which came up with brilliant plans, but more often I've also been in packs where there wasn't much planning and we just decided to do what felt best in the days. And therefore what villagers think an obvious wolf plot isn't always that for the wolves, who often don't have as much experience with plotting as villagers think.

So the possibility of three good players making an "obvious" wolf plan without the intent to double bluff shouldn't be completely ruled out either.

I'm not sure if this makes any sense to anyone.

edit: xed with Mith

So your point is: people have a tendency to over-analyze.

[The Elf-warrior]

Nogrod,I can see why you would reason so, but I disagree. Maybe I'm an innocent who is looking for guidance, and who is persuaded by what you say.

++Aganzir

I agree with you about wolf plans, and you seem all right, but I'm going on a hunch. Please forgive me if you aren't a wolf.

[Mithalwen]

If you think I haven't sticked my neck out can you please tell me who has? I've tried my best today. Sorry if that's not enough to you. With that argument I think we should have lynched a host of people...

But that's not the main point. The point is why do you chose that one to back your vote for me? Because you hadn't a better one as there isn't one because you are a wolfie who needs to find something to say to accompany your vote? Sorry Mith but you didn't make yourself look any better with that... on the contrary.



Fighting talk Nogrod,
You want another reason? Voting very late is a wolvish trait with you I've found... not falling for it again....

[Thinlómien]

I don't really like this Lhuna-wagon. Not only because I don't find her particularly suspicious, but also because there's something that makes me feel bad about it in it. Let's call it a gut-feeling.

I have almost no idea who I will vote... Of those who have received votes I'd prefer Gwath, although he does not seem particularly guilty. No one in this village does.

Where's Oddwen?

edit: xed with G, EW and M

[Gwathagor]

Volo -> Volo
Lhuna -> Gwath
Kath -> Legate
Nerwen -> Lhuna
Gwath -> Lhuna
Mith -> Nog
Nog -> Lhuna
TEW -> Aganzir

Everyone else?

[Thinlómien]

Alright.

++Gwath

for being slightly fishy/unreasonable.

But I really don't even suspect him. :rolleyes:

edit: x'd with Gwath

[Aganzir]

Please forgive me if you aren't a wolf.
I forgive you if you aren't a wolf yourself.

++ Legate

Because I suspect him more and Lhuna will probably die anyway.

edit: xed with Gwath and Lommy

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

*sigh* There is the thing that I was looking forward to playing with Lhuna a little more in this game, since I practically haven't played with her ever... which goes for more people like Oddwen as well... and why just these people are those I'd lynch now... if I were to be guided by this, I'd vote Nogrod ;) since I've played enough times with him, but it's not much...

EDIT: Great, my net just fell down. What the... (this was supposed to be sent about five minutes ago, and I couldn't even see the posts before. Great.)

[Gwathagor]

Volo -> Volo
Lhuna -> Gwath
Kath -> Legate
Nerwen -> Lhuna
Gwath -> Lhuna
Mith -> Nog
Nog -> Lhuna
TEW -> Aganzir
Lommy -> Gwath
Aganzir -> Legate

[Meneltarmacil]

The villagers crowded around Lhunardawen.

"Wolf! Your vile deeds are at an end!" shouted Gwathagor.

"We ought to stone you with your own pinecones!" yelled Nogrod

"Well, as long as it's humane and no animals are hurt aside from the wolf, I'm in," Nerwen agreed.

"Wait! I'm the one who ought to be lynched!" blurted out Volo "I hate these times that I can't argue with you!"

A rope was flung over a high branch of one of the pine trees and tied into a noose around Lhunardawen's neck. The villagers formed a line and pulled up on the other end of the rope, hoisting the victim high.

"Please! Let me down!" Lhuna gasped. "You're making a horrible mistake! If I die there'll be nobody to..."

She ran out of breath and died. As the villagers released their hold on the rope, the body fell to the ground, and out of Lhuna's clothes rolled a crystal ball.

The kind used by Seers.

"Oh no..." said Kath. "This isn't good."

Alive:
Aganzir
Gwathagor
Kath
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mithalwen
Nerwen
Nogrod
Oddwen
satansaloser2005
The Elf-warrior
Thinlomien
Volo

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Crushed under falling cow by Wolves on Night 1.
Lhunardawen (Seer): Hung by villagers on Day 1.

Night 2 begins. I need names from those who can give them. Villagers, please cease posting.

[Meneltarmacil]

The next day dawned. It was overcast and foggy.

The villagers gathered around and noted that one of them was missing.

"Where's Aganzir? I was going to buy a pair of boots from her," asked Kath.

Indeed, the Cobbler was not around.

"I'll bet she's talking to her friends, the werewolves," noted Volo. "After all, she's a Cobbler, so she has to secretly hate us all and support the wolves."

The villagers made there way to Aganzir's house, where a gruesome sight awaited them. The Cobbler's bloody remains were lying all over the place, while her skin had been dried out to fit a pair of boots.

Worst of all, there was no sign that she had been anything but an Ordinary Villager.

Alive:
Gwathagor
Kath
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mithalwen
Nerwen
Nogrod
Oddwen
satansaloser2005
The Elf-warrior
Thinlomien
Volo

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Crushed under falling cow by Wolves on Night 1.
Lhunardawen (Seer): Hung by villagers on Day 1.
Aganzir (Ordinary Villager): Made into shoes by Wolves on Night 2.

And thus begins Day 2. Wolves, no more PMing. Villagers may commence posting.

[Thinlómien]

I'm surprised and sad to see Agan go. But at least I won't have to puzzle over her role... We should maybe think why she was killed although it has less value since the seer is already dead... speaking of which...

YesterDay's voting result was a fiasco. I will have a look at the bandwagon, surely. I think the whole case against Lhuna was quite feeble and I'm still surprised how so many fell for it. I'm quite sure at least one wolf voted Lhuna, butsurely the wolves just got lucky and had no idea that Lhuna was the seer - or did they? I think she was so anti-seerish thatthey probably didn't, unless I missed something.

If I have to find good sides of the seer being dead, well, I can say I can stop seeing seers everywhere. Normally I don't pay any attention to gifteds but yesterDay I had about three or four seer candidates I was being careful with (and no, Lhuna was not among them). Now I can maybe look at them more neutrally.

[Volo]

La République démocratique du Congo est le troisième plus vaste pays d’Afrique et le plus peuplé d'Afrique centrale.

Still haven't read all of that and even while I am reading, my head simply doesn't work. :/ Sorry to say, but this game isn't doing me a favour.

All I feel right now is that either Legate is being framed, or he's framing that he's framed.


editXd with Lommy

[Volo]

And Kath! I can't believe this! But yes I'm not suspecting her at the moment. Hear the soughing of the leaves of history! I still am afraid of her everytime I play in a game with her but somehow her approach feels more innocentish than not this time. What's happening?This too is an interesting comment. I haven't decided who of the two is more guilty, but something is not right. 'night.

[Nogrod]

I don't know what it is exactly but Lommy's first post looks wolvish indeed. It's probably the whole way she approaches Agan's and Lhuna's passing... It looks like a combination of dowplaying our misery, apologising for the kills, thinking like the wolves...

I'm going to look back at yesterDay to see if I can find anything that would help us from there. I hope as many of you do the same.

[Thinlómien]

I don't know what it is exactly but Lommy's first post looks wolvish indeed. It's probably the whole way she approaches Agan's and Lhuna's passing... It looks like a combination of dowplaying our misery, apologising for the kills, thinking like the wolves... Well I was very tempted to mourn Lhuna more vocally and say "what did I say about lynching her being a bad idea" but decided not to be so self-promoting... :rolleyes: Anyway, partly because of that comment you just made it to my suspicion list.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, I can only state it's most unfortunate about Lhuna, and the more now that I see there's probably not much to find out from her posts. If we can conclude anything, then I'd say it's that she didn't dream of Nerwen, Nogrod or Gwathagor. Which is really not much, or actually nothing.

As for Aganzir, without the intention to sound nasty, I would have said just what Lommy said: "At least I won't have to puzzle over her role", indeed. But now after the Night I'd wonder if it could have had something to do with the attempt to frame me or anything, but in any case, that's not my problem, but the wolves', if they have such intention.

And Nog now - I don't like him more and more, and that I say even after his just one post toDay. That looks like an attempt to throw it on Lommy. Would he be such a wolf to act as openly? Because it really screams wolfy to me. Unless they were wolves both, but that I don't think.

What else? Let's wait, shall we not, Boss Gamabunta...

Edit: x-ed with Lommy

[Nogrod]

Lhuna seems to have had one dream as Menel's narration for Night1 ends with Any gifteds present who have reason to give me names, please do so.

Now Lhuna says
of Mith: "rather innocent, in my opinion"
of me: "either a sneaky wolf or a trigger-happy innocent"
of Lommy: "guilty Finn?" & "Lommy"
of Legate: "bored innocent or wolf setting up an insanity defence"

Then she goes on with the following in one post:
Volo is a lost explorer
Agan is sweet and innocent (or so she claims)
Gwath is a guilty lawyer and is likely to ignore Legate's plea for insanity
Oddwen is crazy and innocent.

Ending all this she goes... "So my pine cones tell me".
Now this last add-on kind of makes me wonder whether someone noticed this already yesterDay or is it just th power of hindsight that makes this one shine through?

But if she wished to hint she was the seer why isn't she more explicit with whom she knows of? Hinting to be the ser and leving others in confusion about her dreams doesn't sound reasonable playing ... so maybe I'm just reading too much into this?

Anyway... I'm not sure about Gwath but I could imagine Nerwen picking that one up...

Anyway. Next time she comes in she has this to say:
I don't know, Gwath, but I get this honest gut feeling that you could be sucking up to Legate. If you're a wolf, and you know he's innocent, that's quite a strategy. But that's just me.

Mith feels innocent, she's honest enough to be one, and shows she has nothing to fear in saying whatever she feels like saying.

Nerwen's a bit worrying for skirting the issues, however petty, to which she could have contributed. That one post seems to me very safe - which makes it otherwise, if you get me.

Oddie's behaviour feels normal to me, however unsettling her words may be.

Now, as for Volo's self-vote, I'm not sure if Menel has a provision for automatic lynchings for non-voters. But in any case, I strongly advise not to vote for Volo because of his RL constraints. We have greater need to lynch our strong suspects than people who can't participate properly.

Speaking of participating properly, I see we still have a few people who haven't spoken. I hope they have valid reasons for being still absent. I'll be casting my vote (for either Nogrod, Gwath, or Nerwen as of this moment, but that could very well change) possibly within the hour.

She then goes voting for Gwath but her speculation about why to vote him and why not her other main candidates looks more like pure speculation than anything based on knowledge.
because of my three highest suspects, he's the one I can defend from myself the least. I should give Nerwen more chance to speak, and Nogrod is always argumentative, although his arguments aren't always sound. But that's not to say I'm taking him off my list. It must be Gwath's disadvantage at this point that I've never played with him before, so I don't know if he's being his usual self, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Looking at all this would suggest me a few possibilities - in the order of probability I see it.

She dreamt of Mith and found her innocent.
She dreamt of Gwath and found him a wolf.
She dreamt of Agan and found her innocent.
She dreamt of Oddwen and found her innocent.
She reamt of Nerwen and found her a wolf.

I'd say she dreamt of Mith and found her innocent. For that is the most believable explanation I can find - she after all mentioned her twice and both times as an innocent without reservations or second thoughts / possibilties.

[Nogrod]

Anyway, partly because of that comment you just made it to my suspicion list.So you play this in the good old retaliation way now Lommy?

I will not suspect you if you ask questions about me as that's what we need to do. The wolves only need to make friends and rub you nicely. We innocents need to look at everything and everyone and make the questions that need to be asked so that we can either start suspeting more or to clear someone - at least for a while. But without trying every possible idea we will never get the wolves.

And that goes to you Legate as well. You should know better than that. You can't play without suspecting left and right and looking which dog howls when the stick hits.

If you guys decide your votes on the basis of who is nice to you please go ahead but just remember the wolves are your best mates when the sun still shines. During the Nights it will be different.

I may shut my big mouth and not give you any new ideas if they so upset you. Or are you wolves who do not like the direction this is going?

Gah.

Sorry. I got a bit carried away but two similar posts like that following each other kind of frustrated me. Please go on and suspect me and I can say why you're wrong - and take my points on you in the similar fashion as decent questions to be answered by you.

[Thinlómien]

Nogrod, stop preaching. Besides, the last time I heard that speech you were a wolf, so it's exactly not helping.... :p I'll write something more constructive in a minute...

EDIT: sorry for editing for such a silly reason but I just realised this is my 4,000th post... yay... :D

[Gwathagor]

Well, I can only state it's most unfortunate about Lhuna, and the more now that I see there's probably not much to find out from her posts.

Seriously? Or do you just not want us to look? Both you and Lommy have seriously played down the implications of Lhuna's death. And now you're both going after Nogrod.

Volo, I want to know what the deal was with your self-vote yesterday, because it looks awfully sneaky - as if you were saying "look, I'm clearly innocent because a wolf would never do this."

Nogrod, I don't like the tone of your posts. I said it yesterday, and I'll say it again: they seem domineering and manipulative.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Looking at all this would suggest me a few possibilities - in the order of probability I see it.

She dreamt of Mith and found her innocent.
She dreamt of Gwath and found him a wolf.
She dreamt of Agan and found her innocent.
She dreamt of Oddwen and found her innocent.
She reamt of Nerwen and found her a wolf.

I'd say she dreamt of Mith and found her innocent. For that is the most believable explanation I can find - she after all mentioned her twice and both times as an innocent without reservations or second thoughts / possibilties.

Well I would like to relativise and re-evaluate what you said here. First of all and mainly, I really am not sure whether anything can be said from Lhuna's posts. It's even possible she did not hint anyone at all - after all, she might not have counted on dying this early (and she probably didn't). Also, on first sight it seemed to me that if anyone, it might be Oddwen, because she said practically nothing, yet Lhuna mentioned her quite plainly as "innocent":

As for the others, Volo is a lost explorer, Agan is sweet and innocent (or so she claims), Gwath is a guilty lawyer and is likely to ignore Legate's plea for insanity, and Oddwen is crazy and innocent.
Oddie's behaviour feels normal to me, however unsettling her words may be.

Although now looking at it, it doesn't look much convincing either. But that just proves what I said, I really think we can't say much from her posts.

Last but not least, I do not trust you (but you promoting Mith wouldn't have to mean you are wolves together, that will be rather transparent; rather I'd expect you making it look like that, to support the theory that you two are wolves, while she actually isn't).

EDIT: x.-ed since that Nog's post I've quoted

[Thinlómien]

I have not reread anything, but if we can trust Nogrod's facts, then I think it is most probable that Lhuna dreamt of Oddwen or Agan. This might be a reason for why Agan was killed, too.

And Nogrod, like I said, that preaching is absolutely unnecessary. I don't have anything against you suspecting me. I don't even have anything against you doing it rather forcefully or even on weak grounds. But I might have something to say if you do it in a manner that I consider suspicious.

I know I sometimes automatically trust people because they say they trust me. I know it's bad. But I am able to remind myself of it being stupid myself, thank you, Mr Nogrod. :) I don't think I've made such a judgement mistake in this game this far. I will tell you if I have.

And as for retaliatory suspects... yes, they're not a good thing in principle, but make more sense than it first seems. I mean, if I'm an innocent and you accuse me, I can see that it's a baseless case. Unless I'm a seer, I can't know it of your cases against other people. Everybody makes baseless cases, yes, but wolves do that more than other people do.


edit: xed with Gwath and Legate

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Nogrod! I could understand if you were upset by being wrongfully accused as innocent, but I know you are a reasonable player and sure will be able to return to reason and control your emotions. The post like that one you made is not helping your status in my eyes at all.

Seriously? Or do you just not want us to look?
No way. Just go and look, actually, there's not that many posts from her. But I am stating my opinion: and that is - there's not much to gather.

EDIT: x-ed with Lommy

[Thinlómien]

Seriously? Or do you just not want us to look? Both you and Lommy have seriously played down the implications of Lhuna's death. And now you're both going after Nogrod.And you're nicely fitting us to the same category and misrepresenting me. Great. :rolleyes:

:D

Seriously, Gwath. I did not downplay the implications of Lhuna's death. I said it should be looked at and that I will do so. I merely said I see it as unprobable that the wolves guessed her identity. I didn't, and I don't - maybe I'm silly to do so - except them to be much smarter than I am. ;)


edit: xed with Legate

[Nogrod]

Agan on others...

She called both Legate and Lommy Frollo who speaks of having a clear conscience while his hands were bloody.

She thought Gwath is not suspcious because of his distaste for Day1's but for other reasons (befriending Legate).

Said: But this doesn't actually matter since Gwathy, Oddwen and Lhuna are the wolves and I'm just the cobbler trying to defend them against the nasty Nogrod.

Mith is innocent.

The ones she suspected: Gwath (explanatory behaviour), Legate (delibertely behaving odd), Lommy (too happy), Nogrod (using Noggish reasons).

Thought Kath to be an innocent.

Suspected Lhuna and Legate being fellow-wolves.

Answered Legate's speculation of her possible innocense with Last time Legate-sika said so he was a wolf. I have no reason to assume he is this time different.

Threathened Gwath with: Gwathy, see my post #49, I asked you something. Last game you were a wolf you got too far by ignoring suspicions and questions, and I won't let it happen again.

Thought Volo's self vote is not incrimatory and suspected Legate, Gwath and Lhuna. Adds that Lhuna's death might be the most informative. Votes Legate because Lhuna "will die anyway".

...
Others on Agan:

Lommy said of Agan:
Agan then, she seems quite innocent and in a different way than she usually does. (Usually when she seems innocent to me she's a wolf.) She's not as careful and as unsuspicious as she's as a wolf.
Next she lists her as the second innocent looking with Mith.

Nogrod said:
Agan's questioning of the grounds for the suspicions & her opposition to Gwath's suspiciousness speak good of her as wolves would love to cling into any generally shared suspicion whenever there's one and Gwath has been mentioned as suspicious by a few already.
Kath said:
some nice random accusations, pretty normal Day 1 fare.putting her into the innocent category.

Gwath reacted to her point about wolves not making too much plans on Day1: It just seems so far out that I can't tell whether she really thinks it and is just kind of crazy, or whether she's trying to fool us.
Legate says: looks innocentish to me, although I am aware that when she looks innocent, she generally isn't and vice versa, however I would like to hope this time it's different.
The Elf Warrior votes for her by a hunch.

A few thoughts coming in a minute.

[Nogrod]

First of all it looks like Agan got killed because she was generally thought of as an innocent.

Another interpretation is that she was getting something right with Gwath, Legate and / or Lommy and the wolf / wolves decided to take a dangerous adversary out of the way.

Third interpretation is that it's all a set up and people like Kath, Nerwen and Volo are just grinning in the shadows.

Combinations of these reasons are possible.


Legate's point on Oddwen and Lommy's on Aganzir are plausible (well, I wouldn't have included implausible cases in my list - like myself, Legate or Volo as the ones she would have dreamt) even if I tend to believe it was Mith she had her dream of. I wasn't going to take anything for granted from there but surely these interpretations direct each of us to look at some places rather than not. And these facts need to be brought forwards even if they can't prove anything. You very seldom prove anything in WW but you can build up cases for a pile of indirect evidence.

I don't have anything against you suspecting me. I don't even have anything against you doing it rather forcefully or even on weak grounds.
You don't? Just look again your second post of toDay! To me your reaction looks just like "Oh my god he's saying something that doesn't rub me right! Attaaack!" And it doesn't help you that you try to downplay my thoughts on you as "preaching". That's cheap rhetorics and more a wolfy reaction than an innocent one.

I still haven't heard your answer to the initial suspicion that your first post looks wolvish. In it you manage to say how sad (wolf-apology) and surprised (wolf-cover) you're that Agan is gone. Also you try to make a case of the Lhuna-"bandwagon" and how people fell on that feeble grounds (even the known innocent Agan "fell" for that having her as her second suspicion!) while it is also clear that there were only three votes for Lhuna and thence no mentionable bandwagon (wolvish way of pointing the attention away from you). And then you go on thinking whether the wolves were surprised Lhuna was a seer or just got lucky - which should be a thing the wolves would have thought (wolf-thinking).

I do see your point on feeling bad when someone is suspecting you when you're innocent. But you should know better than that. Putting somene under scrutiny and getting reactions may also make someone look better as you know. We need to get the wolves but we also need to find the ones we can trust - at least a bit.


There is still something I'm not quite easy with Gwath. It's too late now but I hope I can put my finger on it toMorrow.

He and Legate seem just too happy to follow the trends and back up any suspicions raised against vocal players - which would be just what a wolf would like to do.

And just to finish this all. Let's not forget that quieter part of the village. It maybe that we speakers are tearing each other apart once again while the real culprits laugh in the shadows.


*Congrats for your 4000th post Lommy!*

[Kath]

I can't believe we lynched the Seer, and it was Lhuna of all people. The first time we're both free to play a game and we get a grand total of a Day. :rolleyes:

Anyway, you have my apologies but I'm going to have to vote within the next hour or so which I know is insanely early but I've got a family outing planned for tomorrow and have absolutely no idea what time we're going to be back.

So, I'm going to do a few things now. I want to see who voted for Lhuna yesterDay and why. Aside from that pine cones thing picked up by someone earlier I saw little in her posts that would indicate Seerdom. Also I will have a look at her posts though I doubt I will get much out of them because on Day 1 no Seer is going to reveal, and generally tries to barely hint. Finally I will look at the few posts we've had so far toDay and try and make up my mind on a vote. The vote will only be based on those who have spoken so far toDay because I think that's only fair.

Lhuna voters:
Nerwen ~ no real reasoning. Says she suspects Lhuna 'ish'. This is such a strangely supported vote that I actually feel it speaks to her innocence.
Gwath ~ votes Lhuna, no reasoning in the post and it's only because he decided not to vote Volo. The original vote is odd, voting for someone who outright said they weren't able to be there. The Lhuna vote seems revenge more than anything for her 'flippant' vote for him.
Nogrod ~ no reasoning in the post, hmm, apparently the vote was to work out Volo's role. Intriguing idea given the little we'd had from either of them and the perfectly sound argument Lhuna had of ignoring Volo til he had time to return and explain. Given her history with Nilp and self-votes I'd have said that made perfect sense.

Lhuna posts:
Hmm, mentions a twist of some kind, as though she has something to say. A role hint maybe or something more.
Has Mith innocent, unsure on Nog, no conclusion on Lommy, unsure on Legate, has Oddwen as innocent. From this I would say she'd dreamt of Mith or Oddwen as they're the only ones she's fully cleared. I'm more inclined to say Mith because she put reasoning behind that one.
Reiterates that Mith and Oddwen are innocent, not helping that debate. Argues with Gwath and thinks he may be a wolf along with Nerwen. Also has Nog high on her suspicion list.
Votes Gwath mostly by a process of elimination. Is it possible that she dreamt of him? She has little forthright reasoning for her vote, yet has gone after him relatively strongly for Day 1.

ToDay:
Nog jumps on Lommy pretty fast. He seems determined to find fault at the moment. I don't like his statement that Lhuna would have made more explicit hints. On Day 1 only a Seer with one wolf in the bag would dare make their role clear, and even then rarely. He's pretty much defending Gwath, though subtly, saying Gwath wouldn't have picked up the cues and suggesting Lhuna didn't dream of him. The fact that my suspicion of Nog is growing makes me wonder about this, but then I'm not sure a Nog-wolf would be so obvious.
Gwath suspects Nog and Volo. He's very against both of them, and to me seems to be doing some of what he accuses Nog.

I haven't looked at Agan because I think she was killed because there seemed a general consensus that she was innocent.

++NOGROD

The more I've read the more I've been leaning that way. There is still doubt in me whether a Nog-wolf would behave quite as jumpily as Nog is, but then maybe he has comrades he doesn't quite know or it's a role he wasn't keen to have. I don't know, but whatever the case he is acting suspiciously.

I think I've cross-posted with some people. Haven't seen anything since Lommy's last post about downplaying.

[Oddwen]

I truly, truly apologize for disappearing yesterday...I got the times mixed up...

But wow, tough luck. :(

I am inclined to disagree with the theory that Lhuna dreamed of an innocent - reading over her posts the phrases regarding her suspicions seem to stand out to me...then again, she suspected three (Gwath, Nerwen, Nogrod), but only voted one...this sentence is going nowhere.

Then again, she may have dreamed of someone who hadn't even posted before she had to log off, such as Kath or Elf Warrior, and was unable to find something to jump at or defend...

Anyway. Gwath is the one looking most suspicious to me, based on Lhuna's reasonings behind her vote - Mith I'm thinking is leaning close to innocent - I'm feeling some tension from Lommy - I am looking over the rest of you but I am forgetting words and will be back in the morning.

[Nerwen]

Okay, well that was a lousy start. I suppose I'm partly responsible, but the fact is that I had to vote early– and will probably have to do so again, just so you know.

I was, of course, afraid of wolves jumping on my vote: from my point of view Gwath and Nogrod are looking furrier than they did yesterday just for that reason.

Now, was Lhuna killed for giving Seer hints? We can't assume this, but if she was it's more likely it was for picking a wolf than for babbling about pine cones. (I'd guess Gwathagor, in that case.)

However– why wasn't she killed in the night instead? Remember, she suspected everyone who voted her, so if there are wolves among them (I'm not one, as it happens), then they risked incriminating themselves.

That's if she was killed for being a Seer and not just a nuisance.

He's pretty much defending Gwath, though subtly, saying Gwath wouldn't have picked up the cues and suggesting Lhuna didn't dream of him. The fact that my suspicion of Nog is growing makes me wonder about this, but then I'm not sure a Nog-wolf would be so obvious.
Gwath suspects Nog and Volo. He's very against both of them, and to me seems to be doing some of what he accuses Nog.

It's just a little thing, but certain lycanthropic ancestors of myself and Nogrod have used an asymmetrical suspicion technique that looks just like that.

I need to read some more, though.

[Thinlómien]

[QUOTE=Nerwen]
However

[Thinlómien]

What?! I wrote a long post, then tried to edit it to correct a spelling mistake, but the computer refuses to post the original post (which I have copypasted) and only agrees to post that quote=nerwen -thing. I won't delete that post for the sake of following the rules but feel free to ignore it. I try to post my actual post soon but we'll see if this computer co-operates...

[Thinlómien]

However– why wasn't she killed in the night instead? Remember, she suspected everyone who voted her, so if there are wolves among them (I'm not one, as it happens), then they risked incriminating themselves.Well, of course the wolves could gamble and thus have their next Night kill to other use but it seems quite stretched, especially as I don't think Lhuna was an obvious seer - quite on the contrary.

Another interpretation is that she was getting something right with Gwath, Legate and / or Lommy and the wolf / wolves decided to take a dangerous adversary out of the way.
I think this theory is worth consideration - for the wolves will surely feel more safe when the seer is dead and they might assume we don't assume they would kill people who suspect them.

You don't? Just look again your second post of toDay! To me your reaction looks just like "Oh my god he's saying something that doesn't rub me right! Attaaack!" And it doesn't help you that you try to downplay my thoughts on you as "preaching". That's cheap rhetorics and more a wolfy reaction than an innocent one.Well if it looks like that to you, what can I do about it? I can't (thankfully) manipulate your impressions. Anyway, that was certainly what I thought and I guess I can't say more about it.

Also, I'm not downplaying your thoughts by labeling them as preaching. I think it's always worth it to hear what people have to say - even if it is nonsense. I was just expressing my annoyance at you obviously thinking me stupid and repeating your old speech about being nice. Everyone here has probably heard it dozens of times and I don't tend to be delighted by people thinking I'm an idiot. That is why what you said struck me as useless preaching - and now that I think of it, sort of trying to appear good. And my apologies if I'm offensive, I don't mean to be, but I think Nog won't think I hate him if I complain to him or be offended by my honest opinion (at least I hope so...) or do anything as silly, so I don't feel like hiding my message between nice "flowery" talk. :)

I still haven't heard your answer to the initial suspicion that your first post looks wolvish. Well, l(like I just said a few paragraphs above), what on earth could I reply to that. I can't help it if you see my actions as suspicious.

In it you manage to say how sad (wolf-apology) and surprised (wolf-cover) you're that Agan is gone.If I'm surprised and sad by a kill, I tend to say it aloud. I might say things like that if I am a wolf, yes, but just look through a couple of late games and you see I do that as an innocent as well. Bad argument, Noggles.

Also you try to make a case of the Lhuna-"bandwagon" and how people fell on that feeble grounds (even the known innocent Agan "fell" for that having her as her second suspicion!) while it is also clear that there were only three votes for Lhuna and thence no mentionable bandwagon (wolvish way of pointing the attention away from you).Attention away from me? When was it on me in the first place? :p Anyway, you can't claim the Lhuna-voting wasn't odd. Of course I want to have a look at it and of course it's important (regardless of Lhuna's role). I think three votes can be called a bandwagon. And lastly, I have no idea why are you using Aganzir's opinion as a point - the fact that Agan was innocent doesn't mean her opinions were necessarily well-reasoned. Besides, not everybody who voted Lhuna or considerec voting can be wolves (matemathically). And I have not even claimed that all wolves voted or considered voting Lhuna - I consider that really improbable. o what's the point?

And then you go on thinking whether the wolves were surprised Lhuna was a seer or just got lucky - which should be a thing the wolves would have thought (wolf-thinking).What? I did not understand this pont. At all. Isn't them being surprised and getting lucky pretty much the same case? And how is that wolf-thinking? Really, I don't understand you.

There is still doubt in me whether a Nog-wolf would behave quite as jumpily as Nog is, but then maybe he has comrades he doesn't quite know or it's a role he wasn't keen to have. I don't know, but whatever the case he is acting suspiciously.I think he is not jumpy, but rather playing frustrated and offended to appear more innocent and exaggerating his initial reactions. That's what he did as a wolf in Agan's (?) game a while ago and he almost fooled me with it. I won't fall for it again. I think he also might be trying to provoke reactions with behaving sillyly, but who knows. Anyway, my suspicion of him has quite drastically increased toDay.

And a few words about Legate. In a way, I trust him more than many others in this village. He makes a lot of sense. But. There is something in his manner that doesn't sit quite right with me. I can't really pinpoint it, but it's disturbing. Maybe I should have a closer look at his posts, especially those of toDay, because they have been the ones to create this uncomfortable feeling.

Now, I'm finally going to see how Lhuna's lynch happened. Actually, rereading the whole thread wouldn't probably be bad.

[Thinlómien]

Yay, it worked. I wonder what was it...

Just a quick comment before rereading... I don't know what to make of Oddwen's appearance and what she's saying. Her rather bold claim that Lhuna dreamt of a wolf seems almost cobbleristic. Actually, her being a cobbler would explain more of her yesterDay's behaviour too, but I doubt we have a cobbler in this village. So what was my point? Umm... maybe that she's actintg a bit oddly. :p

[Thinlómien]

Some things I noted.

This (in)famous quote,
As for the others, Volo is a lost explorer, Agan is sweet and innocent (or so she claims), Gwath is a guilty lawyer and is likely to ignore Legate's plea for insanity, and Oddwen is crazy and innocent.

So my pine cones tell me.I think, points to Oddwen's inncence. Especially combined with this rather contradictory quote:

Oddie's behaviour feels normal to me, however unsettling her words may be.
At least I feel like concentrating my vigilance elsewhere (not on Oddwen, that is) for a day or two.

But actually, on the other hand, she might have dreamt of Gwath and found him guilty. Apart from that guilty lawyer -thing, there's this
It must be Gwath's disadvantage at this point that I've never played with him before, so I don't know if he's being his usual self, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.That could be it, couldn't it?

However, Nogrod, you were awfully quick to identify my post as "wolvish"? You took no convincing whatsoever, so either you are trigger-happy and innocent, as Lhun said, or you really do know whether I am innocent or guilty. And THAT looks suspicious, because the only way you could know that is if you are a wolf yourself.That was oddly phrased, for sure. Why say "whether I am innocent or guilty" if you're innocent? Wouldn't it first occur to an innocent to write "-- you really know my role" or "-- you really know I'm innocent" (although that latter phrasing would make less sense in the context)?

This comment of Legate's is quite odd
In short: As you may have noticed, those who stay in shadows and say nothing are likely not to be examined by me at all. What does that mean? That everyone should speak to the matter! (Yes, someone had to say it )It sounds suspiciously like he's making an excuse for ignoring a slip-under-the-radar fellow wolf.

Only after reading a few comments I realised Mith had actually said she's an ordo. Now all of us who have played with her know she doesn't like to lie whatever the case. It's part of her charming personality. But I'm also feeling a bit uneasy with a situation where someone will be automatically looked upon as an innocent just because she says she is. I mean a few of you have already kind of declared her innocent just because of that.This could be a wolf trying to stop people trusting in an innocent.

Nogrod's suspicion and vote of Lhuna seemed quite opportunistic.
Nerwen's seemed innocent.
Gwath's seemed a bit eyebrow-raising-worthy but not that bad really.
But actually Legate, who didn't even vote Lhuna, looks the worst in this light. His suspicion of her comes rather from behind the corner and seems a little feigned.

Okay. I'm suspecting Nogrod, Gwath and Legate, but find it very improbable that they would form the wolf trio. Some two of them could be partners in crime but not all the three of them, it would be too insane.
Kath feels vaguely evil, based on her posts both ysterDay and toDay...

I have not reread toDay's posts since I didn't have time, but I will do that later.

[Thinlómien]

I just had a French lesson (how appropriate ;)) and something occured to me. Legate and Gwath are fellow wolves, it fits parfaitement. I don't have time to elaborate right now but I will definitely return to that, as well as finish rereading the thread.

Where is sally? And Volo and Elf-warrior? I need to hear more of them before I can say anything on them and I don't like it how they hide in the shadows... Speak up! Otherwise you'll creep me out.

PS. I seem to be flood-posting... just like in good old times, I see...

[satansaloser2005]

I sense that Lommy's fear of silence stems from long periods of isolation as a child. Perhaps she was locked in the highest room in the tallest tower in the great castle of Nog. Or maybe she's just afraid of Noggie's big yellow boots. ;)


Sorry, sorry, SORRY! I'm here. Currently in a HUGE multi-tasking session to complete a ton of assignments, but here in spirit nonetheless. Some commentary on what I've seen, perhaps? I'll have to go back and read more thoroughly, but for now I've skimmed through (horribly busy weekend) and have a couple thoughts which I think bear analyzation.

Poor Lhuna! I really hate the bandwagon that developed on her, especially since we (and by we, I mean you all) knew that she was forced to leave early and wouldn't be able to defend herself. She spoke of Gwath in a way that makes me uneasy. Granted, I don't think she would make herself that obvious on the first day if she'd dreamt of him, but we have to consider it as a possibility.

And now Agan's dead too, which just rasps my berries. I'd been planning on buying a new pair of shoes tomorrow for our department banquet this weekend. Besides, I've been requiring a new couch for some time, as mine has been sat on by many a twisted mind, and I was wondering if she could do such a favor for me. Alas, now we will never know. Anyway, I think that A: the wolves have a leather fetish, an issue I won't even go into right now, B: they are avoiding the bulk of suspicion at the moment, and C: they killed Agan because....because....well, I don't know why. Wolves, you'll need to schedule an appointment with me sometime this week and we can discuss your motives, all right?



(Back to homework now, or I'm toast! And don't worry, I'll be voting and all, but my stuff needs to be done in an hour or two, so....you know....)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I am posting from the school library *yay!* so I'll have to be brief, but you know what it is when I say "brief"...

Once again, the last posts of Nog made my suspicions drastically rise.
I still haven't heard your answer to the initial suspicion that your first post looks wolvish. In it you manage to say how sad (wolf-apology) and surprised (wolf-cover) you're that Agan is gone.
This is very bad, isn't anyone allowed to express his feelings? And I did, too, because it was honest. Yes, wolves do that to cover themselves, but why to make a case of it, and in such a big manner.

Nerwen ~ no real reasoning. Says she suspects Lhuna 'ish'. This is such a strangely supported vote that I actually feel it speaks to her innocence.
Seems logical, only let's remember this if either Kath or Nerwen show to be wolves, the other may be as well and this is the point of "easy defending the other".

Lhuna posts:
Hmm, mentions a twist of some kind, as though she has something to say. A role hint maybe or something more.
Not quite sure about that, if anything I would consider more of a hint the words "or so my pine cones tell me". But it may be as well just some silliness and in-game thing.

Votes Gwath mostly by a process of elimination. Is it possible that she dreamt of him? She has little forthright reasoning for her vote, yet has gone after him relatively strongly for Day 1.
I am inclined to disagree with the theory that Lhuna dreamed of an innocent - reading over her posts the phrases regarding her suspicions seem to stand out to me...then again, she suspected three (Gwath, Nerwen, Nogrod), but only voted one...this sentence is going nowhere.
I would not think Lhuna dreamt of Gwath, although she could (not knowing him at all from games before, she picked him on first night). But as for what Oddwen says, the suspicion of three would not necessarily have to matter - she might have known one but suspected others, and eventually used the others to "shield" the fact that she's seer and really dreamt of one of them.

Now, was Lhuna killed for giving Seer hints? We can't assume this, but if she was it's more likely it was for picking a wolf than for babbling about pine cones. (I'd guess Gwathagor, in that case.)

However– why wasn't she killed in the night instead? Remember, she suspected everyone who voted her, so if there are wolves among them (I'm not one, as it happens), then they risked incriminating themselves.

That's if she was killed for being a Seer and not just a nuisance.
What "killed"? I don't actually get your thinking here at all. Lhuna was lynched, by you among others, and I tend to think it was sheer luck, as it will be quite a feat for Wolves to reveal the Seer, then if possible all of them should know about it (!), and then most of them would have to vote her - the way you put it. Odd coincidences, would that be?
(But not sure what to make of it.)

But actually, on the other hand, she might have dreamt of Gwath and found him guilty. Apart from that guilty lawyer -thing, there's this
That could be it, couldn't it?
That's actually not that bad idea. I'll have to look&think of it as soon as I get back home and have more time.

This comment of Legate's is quite odd

In short: As you may have noticed, those who stay in shadows and say nothing are likely not to be examined by me at all. What does that mean? That everyone should speak to the matter! (Yes, someone had to say it )
It sounds suspiciously like he's making an excuse for ignoring a slip-under-the-radar fellow wolf.
Nay, you misunderstand. I meant that I am not examining the ones who are silent, which I meant as a reproach, to make them post something.

All right. Need to leave, Phaedros awaits! See you in the evening! (my evening)

[Nogrod]

Well, l(like I just said a few paragraphs above), what on earth could I reply to that.Well you managed to use a few pages into your reply... so obviously you were quite able to. :)

And after all this I think I have some reasons to believe you're more innocent than not (the way you reacted felt quite genuine) which I didn't have yesterDay. Sadly I can't say the same of Legate as his reactions to the affair felt more sinister. But without further points on him I would not like to vote for him at least yet.


So what to do? I think we have two promising possible slips.

So look at this quote from Nerwen after she defends her vote on Lhuna being forced to make it early: I was, of course, afraid of wolves jumping on my vote!!!

Also Lommy had a nice find from Gwath: or you really do know whether I am innocent or guilty

I'd say Gwath's is more incriminating but I'm not feeling too good with Nerwen's either.

Also I still think Volo's self-vote was more suspicious than not.

The Elf Warrior and Sally should really come more forwards.

We're having an extra choir-rehersal but I will be back an hour or two before the deadline.

[Oddwen]

Rats, not enough time as I would like...

The tension between Lomgrod and Nogomien is setting off bells for me - I don't know if it's the family thing, or a pack thing.

From Nerwen, some defensiveness -

One thing I feel like nitpicking at is those who say "this player played this way", or "when this player was a wolf...", because not all of us have the privilege of experiencing this information, and are liable to have their heads turned...it seems that someone could hide something with it.

Alas, my time has run out and I must vote - I'm convinced that Lhuna dreamt of a Wolf - and his post(s?) toDay seemeth to me to be nearly too defensive.

Late for work,

++GWATHAGOR

[Volo]

But I really don't even suspect him. :rolleyes: At least don't say it out loud. I have grudge against such votes, you know.

If I have to find good sides of the seer being dead, well, I can say I can stop seeing seers everywhere. Normally I don't pay any attention to gifteds but yesterDay I had about three or four seer candidates I was being careful with (and no, Lhuna was not among them). Now I can maybe look at them more neutrally.
Seers all over the place already on Day1? :eek: I find it hard to believe that Seers would be open at all on Day1 and I simply won't be convinced that Lhuna revealed her dream.

If you guys decide your votes on the basis of who is nice to you please go ahead but just remember the wolves are your best mates when the sun still shines. During the Nights it will be different.

I may shut my big mouth and not give you any new ideas if they so upset you. Or are you wolves who do not like the direction this is going?

Gah.

Sorry. I got a bit carried away but two similar posts like that following each other kind of frustrated me. Please go on and suspect me and I can say why you're wrong - and take my points on you in the similar fashion as decent questions to be answered by you.
Noggie, this was most unusual of you. Once I read through the whole thread I'll try to see what you mean.

I'm slightly uneasy about Lommy and Noggie. Ironically enough while reading through yesterDay, I got the idea that Aganzir must be Innocent - and then I remembered that she was Innocent indeed. :/ So while I think it's quite possible that she was killed because she was just generally thought Innocent (was she?) like Noggie said and even while I don't believe much or anything can be learnt from kills, I would like to remind you that Wolves do plan their kills, if not their general strategies.


I'll be back quite soon and I've decided that projects, homework etc. can go drown themselves. I'm playing WW, for Livingstone's sake!

[Thinlómien]

Nogrod's latest post gave me an innocent and laid-back feeling - did he craft the post hoping to make such an impression? Or is he really just innocent? :D Too bad...

Also, Legate should stop that behaviour instantly! :p Whatever I say about him, he posts right after me and changes my opinion. I mean, that post sounded very genuine and innocent (maybe especially if you discount a few phrases that weren't remarkably so). :rolleyes: Maybe I should analyse his posts (do I really want to undertake such a project?) or something to form a clear picture of him...

Oddwen feels rather innocent. And I do not see why Nerwen's "slip" is incriminating.

Okay, now that I've had a quick word in, I'll go and reread toDay and also elaborate on the Gwath&Legate -thing...


edit: xed with Volo

[Mithalwen]

Hi I am here, I haven't had a chance to read through yet. I managed to find out I was still alive last night but no more. I was a bit suprised since I reviewed Lhuna's post once I knew she was the Seer and thought I was the most likely Dream subject. This is a double edged sword since I am more likely to survive the days but less likely to survive the nights. Of course we may have a Ranger ...and one advantage of not knowing is that the wolves don't know either what limits on protection that ranger may have .. :D ..off to read

[Nerwen]

What "killed"? I don't actually get your thinking here at all. Lhuna was lynched, by you among others, and I tend to think it was sheer luck, as it will be quite a feat for Wolves to reveal the Seer, then if possible all of them should know about it (!), and then most of them would have to vote her - the way you put it. Odd coincidences, would that be?
(But not sure what to make of it.)


A point of semantics... I guess I was thinking that if wolves indeed contributed to her death they "killed" her, but if it bothers you I'll amend it to "lynched".

The point I'm working up to is this: Lhuna spoke of a number of people, some as guilty and some as innocent. She could only have dreamed of one person. Do we take her lynching as confirmation that she dreamed of a wolf (in which case her comments about Mith and Oddwen are no use to us)? Or not?

Nogrod's latest post gave me an innocent and laid-back feeling - did he craft the post hoping to make such an impression? Or is he really just innocent? :D Too bad...

Nogrod and Lommy are confusing me. Are they playing at accusing each other, with Lommy backing off when it gets too serious? Or is this Lommy flip-flopping as usual?

Oddwen feels rather innocent. And I do not see why Nerwen's "slip" is incriminating.

Neither does Nerwen. After I voted Lhuna on what I admitted were weak grounds, I thought, "well, I hope she is guilty, because if not I've given the villains a nice opportunity". Why the "!!!"

[Mithalwen]

Or may be that is self-absorption/self-obsession/arrogance...delete according to your own opinion...:rolleyes:

[Thinlómien]

Okay, nothing new to say about today after a reread.

Now onto Gwath and Legate...


Gwath about Legate

Day1
#27 Calls him reasonable and impenetrable, but doesn't like his "honest gut feelings". Ends up having no real opinion on him.
#51 Busts a myth about him trying to flatter Legate: says he merely called Legate rational and that it's an universal truth. Also busts a myth about him and Legate arguing in circles with each other: says he merely posted a brief paragraph about Legate.

Day2
- nothing this far -


Legate about Gwath

Day1
#32 Teases him with a nickname, says he makes him feel a little uneasy and both agrees and disagrees with him about Lhuna's lists, wonders/is suspicious of Gwath calling him reasonable. Concludes: "But overall, it's not that bad with Gwath. He's in the yellow zone for me (that's next to the green zone, which is okay). Gwathwolf used to be worse as far as I could tell from an observer-point."
#48 Says he's in his "yellow zone", but doesn't like him being a probable lynch-candidate. Strays from the Gwath-topic to talk about lynching quiet people, says that we could always lynch Gwathagor the following day.
#54 Speculates that Gwath could be Kath's fellow.
#55 Replies to Gwath's mythbusting: says he was not reasonable in the beginning of Day1 and that Gwath's other mythbusting concerning the two of them is right and implies claiming something like the "myth" is suspicious.
#73 Says he will leave voting Gwath for that day since he has lately seemed more reasonable.

Day2
#90 Doubts Lhuna dreamt of Gwath.
#111 Repeats the point mentioned above, although says she could have done so.


Conclusion: Just as bad as I thought it was. I really don't like the way they flip-flop and are indesicive about each other. They also defend each other a bit sneakily: Gwath does not defend only himself in his myth-busting and Legate is a tad too certain Lhuna didn't dream of Gwath. Also, his decidion not to vote Gwath looks a bit bad.
This of course doesn't prove that they're wolves. But if one of them is, I'd have a careful look at the other. There's something odd in here.


edit: xed with Mith, Nerwen and Mith

[Thinlómien]

Nogrod and Lommy are confusing me. Are they playing at accusing each other, with Lommy backing off when it gets too serious? Or is this Lommy flip-flopping as usual?Well, I still suspect him. He's one of my top suspects. But that last post of his just sounded genuinely innocent, in a way. That's the truth of it. And trust me, if this strife was prearranged, I would not be backing away, but attacking more forcefully... :D ;)

[Thinlómien]

Oh, I think I missed one Gwath-Legate exchange. I'll go to have dinner now but I'll analyse it when I come back.

[Volo]

Unlike Noggie, I find Kath more suspicious than in other games I've had with her. I don't think I've ever seen her as a Wolf and I can't really find what made me suspect her. Something in #101 really scared me, but since she has left, I won't start searching much deeper into it toDay.

Nerwen, on the other hand feels quite Innocent. Although some things she said made quite little sense.

Lommy is much more like the Innocent-Lommy than the Wolf-Lommy. Her arguing with Noggie is less nervous than when she's evil.

Some things I noted.
Well found, but unfortunately, I don't think the Seer-dream-stuff is very useful. We should remember that it points at either Oddwen's Innocence or Gwath's guilt. Not both - and we can't know which for sure. Hmm... Ok, my idea was quite pointless, but I want to remind that it doesn't point both to Oddwen's Innocence and Gwath's guilt. I myself, don't believe that the Seer would reveal her Dreams so soon. Then again, Lommy has been good with guessing Dreams earlier... Oh, botheration.

But the find about Gwath's possible slip is good, though I still can't admit that I fully believe in the existance of slips. As deep as I have ventured into the jungles, I have found surprisingly little of the Wolf-eating legend called "slips".

I just had a French lesson (how appropriate ) and something occured to me. Legate and Gwath are fellow wolves, it fits parfaitement. I don't have time to elaborate right now but I will definitely return to that, as well as finish rereading the thread.This most certainly points to Lommy's Innocence. I hope that something of your point is left - at the very least I would like to hear it.

Noggie's #112 looks too calm concidering the situation. I would have expected much more reaction at Lommy's certainty about Legate and Gwath. Or at least something, something... As if he's avoiding the topic.
And the fact that he continuesly reminds about my vote. I really think he should know better!

edit: Xd with three Lommys

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I am back! Well, nothing much different for me to say. Nog seems to me that he is playing wolfy-safe this time, really. Like, bringing suspicion against someone, then being a little reserved when he thinks he should calm down and let the waters calm a little, like in this case with Lommy:
And after all this I think I have some reasons to believe you're more innocent than not (the way you reacted felt quite genuine) which I didn't have yesterDay. Sadly I can't say the same of Legate as his reactions to the affair felt more sinister. But without further points on him I would not like to vote for him at least yet.

Then I don't like the things he bases his suspicions on - they are too "simple" for Nog! He, from my point of view gives too much weight in his cases to things like Lommy saying "Poor Lhuna" or what it was, or this:
So look at this quote from Nerwen after she defends her vote on Lhuna being forced to make it early: !!!

These are the simplest things one catches a wolf on. But surely we know well that even normal people may say things like that and it's not necessary to always build case on that. Or at least say "Yes, but also..." And I would expect Nog at least to come to this with more "critical thinking", eh? Unless he has interest to not include it but build suspicion against those people among others.

Also Lommy had a nice find from Gwath:
And this could be a wolf catching upon a suspicion that can be built, and which even others may follow...

Also I still think Volo's self-vote was more suspicious than not.
Not sure why. I also have to check what you said about his self-vote yesterday... if you did anything... because I think there's nothing odd on that.

A point of semantics... I guess I was thinking that if wolves indeed contributed to her death they "killed" her, but if it bothers you I'll amend it to "lynched".
Well yes, but it was not just about the word you used, of course it's clear you meant lynched (although it's odd), however you talked even the way that it looked like you took the lynch of Lhuna as some planned event, like a kill, indeed. I don't know what to make of it at all, but I simply find that odd.

Also, Legate should stop that behaviour instantly! :p Whatever I say about him, he posts right after me and changes my opinion.
Oh, sorry. That's not intentional :D But at least it keeps your mind thinking it over, doesn't it? :)

EDIT: x-ed just a little... since Mith or what was it, before Lommy now...

[Volo]

I think our problem is that we haven't hed the silent/loud-discussion on yet. :S

[Thinlómien]

The thing I missed was this.

Well, I can only state it's most unfortunate about Lhuna, and the more now that I see there's probably not much to find out from her posts.
Seriously? Or do you just not want us to look? Both you and Lommy have seriously played down the implications of Lhuna's death. And now you're both going after Nogrod.
and
Seriously? Or do you just not want us to look?
No way. Just go and look, actually, there's not that many posts from her. But I am stating my opinion: and that is - there's not much to gather.

It really doesn't change anything. Except it's a bit harsh from fellow wolves in the start of Day2, but not unthinkable at all...

Okay, now I'll write a summary about my feelings about people (and quite funnily, I started forming this post in that French lesson many hours ago... I'll see if there are changes...)...


edit: xed with silly Volo ;)

[Thinlómien]

Okay, this is my suspicion list, from the most innocent to the most guilty...

Innocent-like
Mith - general manner, own declarations of innocence

Not alarmed about
Oddwen - feels genuine enough, possibly dreamed of by Lhuna, so I wouldn't start worrying about her yet
Nerwen - general feeling, there's nothing suspicious about her that has caught my attention

Too little data or no clear opinion on
sally - what can you say based on one single post? Well, if I had to guess, I wouldn't be worried...
Elf-Warrior - far too little data, but I'm not really troubled (ie he's slipping under my radar :rolleyes: )
Volo - he's not worrying me either, although he has refused to explain his vote, which is something that doesn't make me very easy about him

Slightly suspicious
Kath - there's just something in her overall manner that doesn't sit right with me

Suspicious
Legate
Gwath
Nogrod

I won't elaborate on the three last ones, because they are what I'm mostly been talking about the whole Day. :rolleyes: I could vote any of them - although I'd be the least enthusiastic to vote Legate of those. He looks the least suspicious of them and given how my opinion of him changes, I wouldn't be ready to lynch him just yet...

[Gwathagor]

:eek: Ok, I have a lot to catch up on. Give me a few moments.

[Nogrod]

Please Legate try to decide what you're suspecting me of: running rampant or playing safe? :D

Let me explain my points on Nerwen and Volo (once again) as they have been asked.

It's pretty clear we're more often than not pretty unsure with our votes. But I find it quite interesting Nerwen brings that up in such a manner. First of all there were already votes on Volo, Gwath and Legate at the point when Nerwen voted. Why was she afraid - already then as she claims - the wolves might jump particularly on her vote? Why did she vote for Lhuna if she wasn't actually the most suspicious one in her eyes? There's an easy solution these if Nerwen is a wolf. Then she knew her vote was sham and when Lhuna turned out the seer her position looked bad. So she had all the reason to whitewash herself as soon as possible and maybe she just overdid it trying to make us feel that she had been sorry to vote for Lhuna already yesterDay and had hoped the wolves would not follow her vote? But why wouldn't innocent votes get Lhuna lynched as well? Or was it pure rhetoric (me innocent - them wolves trying to use my "innocent & repented" vote).

Volo's vote, once again then. He was the first to vote and he voted himself without any pressure to be seen on him. The result: everyone (well almost everyone) thinks he must be an innocent. I just don't see an innocent doing it - or at least I see a host of more resons for a wolf to do that.

Not much of cases either one of them but better than nothing.

Still I think our best bet toDay is Gwath unless we get some brighter ideas during this last hour+.

EDIT: X'd with Lommy & Gwath

[Volo]

Now, was Lhuna killed for giving Seer hints? We can't assume this, but if she was it's more likely it was for picking a wolf than for babbling about pine cones. (I'd guess Gwathagor, in that case.)

However– why wasn't she killed in the night instead? Remember, she suspected everyone who voted her, so if there are wolves among them (I'm not one, as it happens), then they risked incriminating themselves.

That's if she was killed for being a Seer and not just a nuisance.

Now either I'm misunderstanding Nerwen, she's talking very odd stuff or she's making slips.

Legate already mentioned this post (and that is how I ended looking at it). Anyway, I find it odd for her to assume that Lhuna was especially killed (by Wolf/Wolves) and not just lynched (by the majority). And killed at the spot for being a Seer... How unprobable is that?


Ok, now I've been asked several times about my vote. I did already explain it however - or I think I did. A shot in the dark could have been more fatal, especially if I had hit a Gifted. Concerning the game, it was safest to vote for myself, since - yes - I didn't believe that I'd be lynched for just two in-character posts.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Please Legate try to decide what you're suspecting me of: running rampant or playing safe? :D
Both. And don't try to save it with the overlooking tone and a smiley. I - don't - like - the -way - you - behave in this game.

It's pretty clear we're more often than not pretty unsure with our votes. But I find it quite interesting Nerwen brings that up in such a manner. First of all there were already votes on Volo, Gwath and Legate at the point when Nerwen voted. Why was she afraid - already then as she claims - the wolves might jump particularly on her vote? Why did she vote for Lhuna if she wasn't actually the most suspicious one in her eyes? There's an easy solution these if Nerwen is a wolf. Then she knew her vote was sham and when Lhuna turned out the seer her position looked bad.
Or from how strangely she talks, if I combine these two things, that could be a solution - that she's a wolf and actually thought Lhuna a Seer. This would fit with this theory you present (which I would think plausible), and explain her really strange talks about kill and such. Or maybe. But I am actually still perplexed about it, as I think Nerwen intelligent enough not to make any silly slipping mistakes, if she were a wolf. Not like that.

Volo's vote, once again then. He was the first to vote and he voted himself without any pressure to be seen on him. The result: everyone (well almost everyone) thinks he must be an innocent. I just don't see an innocent doing it - or at least I see a host of more resons for a wolf to do that.
And that's actually what I don't think, and not also sure that many people did think him innocent because of that. My approach, and suggestion, was to simply ignore the vote at all: not make it a bonus, nor a minus. Volo was in certain situation, it's possible he did it intentionally, but... you see, I find that too small thing to base anything on.

Volo: Only one question which you did not explain in your last post. There was also the option not to vote at all. Why did you not do it and voted yourself instead?

[Nogrod]

Ok, now I've been asked several times about my vote. I did already explain it however - or I think I did. A shot in the dark could have been more fatal, especially if I had hit a Gifted. Concerning the game, it was safest to vote for myself, since - yes - I didn't believe that I'd be lynched for just two in-character posts.I could be persuaded to believe you with this - at least provisionally or at the moment and let the future show us more of you - even if I still think that a wolf-Volo would be very much able to pull the same thing. As you say yourself "I didn't believe that I'd be lynched for just two in-character posts"!!! So you say it was the "safest" thing to do. Yes it was - whether you're an innocent with no gift... or a wolf. :)

EDIT: X'd with Legate

[Nogrod]

Where are you people?

40 minutes left and only a few people have voiced their minds lately!

Legate I intended no special tone in my post asking you to decide. I just found it funny to be suspected for exactly opposing reasons within the same Day by the same person...

And about my style... if I have a lots of time in my hands I tend to read and analyse carefully which in turn results in more critical and careful posts. When I'm not having too much time I try to pick whatever comes my way or arouses attention and throw it forwards to see what happens. If everyone played like Sally or Elf Warrior we'd have nothing to discuss or no reactions to notice. The pot needs stirring.

[Volo]

Why did you not do it and voted yourself instead?I support death penalty when not being decisive about killing somebody. In other words: modfire.

Drat, this is getting late.

:/

[satansaloser2005]

Okay. A piece of a post, then more homeworks. Yes, I said it. Homeworks.

Sorry about being all vague this morning, but I had like two papers due and a test to study for, so I just put myself out there so you all knew I was at least around. And unfortunately, as I am hurried this won't be much of an insightful post either; just making it clear where I stand with other people.

Down to business, if momentarily.
Lommy seems innocent enough to me, although....I really don't like the way she and Noggie are interacting. I wouldn't be surprised to see a little (or big....tehe) boot flying across the forum closer to deadline. But for now, she is on my innocent list.

Master Noggins. Why, my gin-toting companion, do you leave a strange impression on me? I need to look at you a lot more closely, as at the moment you are in the yellowish-orange colored area of my suspicion map. Best watch yourself mister. ;)

Nerwen. Nerwen, Nerwen, Nerwen. You are operating way too much under the assumption that the wolves knew Lhuna was the seer. (Please correct me if I misunderstand) "The wolves jumped onto my vote because they knew she was seer," major paraphrasing aside, is a fairly suspicious statement. First of all, the only way you could know the wolves thought Lhuna was seer is if you were a wolf. Second of all, anyone, even ordos like myself, could have mistakenly jumped onto the Lhuna-wagon. An unfortunate mistake, but a mistake nonetheless, so to assume that the wolves targeted her specifically is rather silly. Now, I'm not saying that you're wrong, because it's perfectly possible that you as an innocent inadvertently started the bandwagon against her and some of the wolves mixed themselves in alongside the rest of the ordos, but I find this highly unlikely. You get a suspicious tag. Third and last, my duck seems to be catching a cold of some sort. Any ideas on how to make her feathers fluffy again?

Volo, my friend, your self vote seems odd, but I'm thinking you're innocent, especially after seeing your explanation.

Gwath....ie....poo....plead your case, and plead it carefully. I'm doubting you'll be able to weasel, erm, lawyer your way out of this one if you are a wolf, because I'm still apt to believe you are a fuzzy fiend and that Lhuna may have found you out. Or maybe she just got (semi) lucky when she voted you. Either way, I think you need a shave before you appear before the village again.

Elf-Warrior....erm, yeah. I've got nothing. Sorry.

Oddwen seems innocent right now, but I haven't looked at her in detail. I might change my opinion on her, but only if she does something....odd. Sorry; couldn't resist the pun.

Legate is acting very rationally, making good posts, good points, and generally being very helpful. But that doesn't mean he's innocent. I'll have to look at him a lot more, but time isn't allowing for it right now, so he'll have to wait until tomorrow, that is assuming we both survive the Night. For now, I think he's okay though.

Kath hasn't said all that much, but for some reason she seems off to me. I have basically nothing to base it off of right now, but I think she might be a little fuzzy. Have to look closer sometime and form a better opinion.

That's all for now. Obviously coming back to vote, but I'm going to submit this, do some work, and come back in a few minutes.

[satansaloser2005]

And again, sorry for being so quiet and so far unhelpful. So blastedly busy today. *pulls out hair and grabs some ale from Master Nog*

[Gwathagor]

My first inclination is that there's got to be something going on around Lommy, Legate, and Nogrod. There seems to be a great deal of reactionism and righteous indignation and even a few flippant remarks, which are used to brush off accusations without giving them due consideration. Nogrod and Legate feel (yeah, yeah, I know) more wolf-like than Lommy at this point. Nogrod looks bad because he has been right in the thick of everything since Day 1. Legate seems serpentine and sneaky - rational, but quietly twisting arguments and words (both Nerwen and Lommy called him on this). Lommy's posting style seems more relaxed and casual than the other two. This could be a carefully studied act, but I am not prepared to vote against her yet.

However, it might just be that these three players stand out the most because they have been the most vocal. When I've played before, it seems like while there might be one wolf out in the open (i.e. among Lommy, Nogrod, and Legate), the other two are usually hiding among the quiet players. Oddwen looks the worst of the quiet to me - but you all seem to be convinced that Lhuna found her innocent? To me, her sparse, non-involved voting/posting pattern seems like that of either a scavenging wolf or an irresponsible innocent.

Volo's explanation of his vote makes sense. It doesn't make me happy, but I have to admit that his reasoning makes sense.

I have to go try to work up a case against one of my suspects before I vote. :( Lots of reading to do.

[Nerwen]

First of all there were already votes on Volo, Gwath and Legate at the point when Nerwen voted. Why was she afraid - already then as she claims - the wolves might jump particularly on her vote?

I was not afraid that the wolves might jump particularly on my vote. Where did you get that idea? I was speaking mostly on general principles: I don't like voting early. More specifically, though– other people, yourself included, had expressed suspicion of her, so I was of course concerned that if she was, in fact, innocent and you were wolves I was giving you an opening. (The same would have applied to anyone on my suspicion list.)

Why did she vote for Lhuna if she wasn't actually the most suspicious one in her eyes?

Because there was no "most suspicious" person to vote for. I thought I made that quite clear at the time.

Why did you vote for her, Nogrod?

Anyway, I find it odd for her to assume that Lhuna was especially killed (by Wolf/Wolves) and not just lynched (by the majority). And killed at the spot for being a Seer... How unprobable is that?

I do not like this, either, Volo. You have read my post, you say– therefore you know the context:

Now, was Lhuna killed for giving Seer hints? We can't assume this, but if she was it's more likely it was for picking a wolf than for babbling about pine cones. (I'd guess Gwathagor, in that case.)

However– why wasn't she killed in the night instead? Remember, she suspected everyone who voted her, so if there are wolves among them (I'm not one, as it happens), then they risked incriminating themselves.

That's if she was killed for being a Seer and not just a nuisance.

As you see, I was speculating on different possibilities– I assumed nothing.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

A simple list of my opinions on people:

ORANGE ZONE
Gwathagor - same as yesterday, plus I still have slightly uneasy feeling about him, and some things may be either way with him.

YELLOW ZONE
Oddwen - something more to follow today, doesn't look that bad.
Sally - her post today (was it only one? I think so. The first one in any case.) was a little unnerving and somewhat running around the same facts. She could be a wolf playing a cheery girl.

MORE LIKE INNOCENT
Kath - although I am inclined to think her maybe rather innocent, she is partially an enigma to me. But that's about her general behavior, when I don't know how she behaves if innocent and how if a Wolf.
Mithalwen - the only things I might have against her would be the same I stated in my very opening posts, but otherwise later she seems more okay.
Nerwen - spoke about above.

MORE MORE LIKE INNOCENT
The Elf-warrior - from the little he sent seeming innocentish enough to me.
Lommy - seems like her honest self well enough.
Volo - seeming honest enough to me, the only possiblity of something fishy there would be if his self-vote was really with some intention.

RED ZONE
Nogrod - see my many posts above.

Also even about those I have marked as less suspicious, bear in mind that I have several people possibly paired, so if one turns wolf, I'd look at the other - see in my other posts. If that happens.

So, from this it would seem for me to vote against Nogrod as the most probable thing.

EDIT: x-ed since Sally.

[Gwathagor]

Gwath....ie....poo....plead your case, and plead it carefully.


What case? Be more specific, please, and I'll do my best to oblige. I haven't seen any serious arguments or evidence leveled against me, but you seem pretty happy to seize on Oddwen's vote and call it a case - and THAT looks fuzzy, because you've been even less involved than Oddwen.

I voted against Lhuna yesterday, first, in self-defense, and second, because her vote looked way too easy and careless to be well-intentioned.

Crossed with Nerwen

[Volo]

Le pain est un aliment de base dans de nombreuses sociétés humaines. Il est fabriqué à partir de farine, de levure ou levain, de sel et d'eau.

I'm halfway reading through Nogrod and I feel quite concerned about him. Apart from that I'm fearing that Mith is using our trust in her words against us.
Nerwen's latest post looks more genuine, although I know that a Wolwen can pull out such posts with seeming ease.

I am however still at a loss of whom to vote. While I could say that Noggie is my main suspect, I'm not confident enough to risk losing an Innocent Noggie at this point.

[satansaloser2005]

Sorry, Gwath, should have made that more plain. I suspect you, and pretty heavily. Mostly based on Lhuna. And since you're a lawyer, I figured I'd put my suspicion semi-in-character.

And did I mention Oddie? I didn't think I did, but maybe I put something in and didn't realize it.


EDIT: Oddwen's vote. Gotcha now. Sorry, not with it. *facepalms herself* Cancel my 2:30. I'm not in the mood to hear about anyone's mother.

[Nogrod]

Lommy's posting style seems more relaxed and casual than the other two.
Also, I'm not downplaying your thoughts by labeling them as preaching. I think it's always worth it to hear what people have to say - even if it is nonsense. I was just expressing my annoyance at you obviously thinking me stupid and repeating your old speech about being nice. Everyone here has probably heard it dozens of times and I don't tend to be delighted by people thinking I'm an idiot. That is why what you said struck me as useless preaching - and now that I think of it, sort of trying to appear good. And my apologies if I'm offensive, I don't mean to be, but I think Nog won't think I hate him if I complain to him or be offended by my honest opinion (at least I hope so...) or do anything as silly, so I don't feel like hiding my message between nice "flowery" talk.
Have we been reading the same thread Gwath or are you trying to get allies rubbing them the right way? :D

Why did you vote for her, Nogrod?If you read the thread you'd have the answer. I suspected Volo (and the teamplay of Volo & Lhuna) the most alongside Gwath. In the end it seemed no one else was ready to vote for Volo so I would have wasted my vote on him. There were already two votes on Lhuna so the theory of them two being wolves could be checked by voting Lhuna. And I'm not trying to cover or sweeten my vote afterwards. I believed it was the best option I had then. It ended in a disaster to be sure but that's hindsight as we know know what she was. But we didn't then.

[Nogrod]

I was not afraid that the wolves might jump particularly on my vote. Where did you get that idea? I was speaking mostly on general principlesWell you said this: I was, of course, afraid of wolves jumping on my vote

edit: bolded also the "of course" as that should be noticed as well...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, the posts above changed nothing much about my list. They go with what I said there. Only, about - and to - Gwathagor. If you are not a wolf, I would like to warn you about something, at least I think that's your style of playing: you give too much to what others think. Think for yourself! I think what you said in your last post is of that kind:

Legate seems serpentine and sneaky - rational, but quietly twisting arguments and words (both Nerwen and Lommy called him on this).

I would have called this a reason for putting you even further on my suspicion list (to the red zone with Nog), however then I thought a little and I think you actually do that. Because saying "I think X is suspicious, and look, even Y and Z say so!" is a way of supporting your claims by others' arguments, which a normal villager simply shouldn't do! Or not this way, as it seems that you are convincing others by it. Anyway, there's that thing like I said, that I think you very often form your opinions based on what others say - so it this is the case, and you are not a wolf, I am warning you against it.

That's it. I'm going to vote probably soon, unless something else happens. Hope no net malfunction's coming today.

EDIT: Ooops! x-ed since my last post. Why, it's almost DL. I should vote already.

[Volo]

Somehow I predict a long post from Lommy in the next 5minutes. After which total chaos will arrive.

I had some good joke about why voting one self is a good idea, but forgot it.

C'est la vie est un album studio de Johnny Hallyday sorti en 1977.

edit: Xd with Noggie and Legate

[satansaloser2005]

Fourteen until deadline, and only one vote in, unless I'm mistaken. Let's not have a last minute vote session, everyone.

[Gwathagor]

It's fun to see everyone getting frantic as DL approaches. :) Ok, now I really am going to go read the thread again and then vote.

[Mithalwen]

Le pain est un aliment de base dans de nombreuses sociétés humaines. Il est fabriqué à partir de farine, de levure ou levain, de sel et d'eau.

I'm halfway reading through Nogrod and I feel quite concerned about him. Apart from that I'm fearing that Mith is using our trust in her words against us.
Nerwen's latest post looks more genuine, although I know that a Wolwen can pull out such posts with seeming ease.

I am however still at a loss of whom to vote. While I could say that Noggie is my main suspect, I'm not confident enough to risk losing an Innocent Noggie at this point.


How Volo? I haven't really said enough for that alas. There is a good chance Lhuna did dream of me. The wolves know I am innocent so at some point they will try to kill me at night ranger or no only looking too innocent is not a way to survive long in this game. So for that at least I thank you.

You are all confusing me alas .. though Lommie seems more ok than most.

I still dont' trust Nogrod one little bit.. Not sure I have a good reasone to change my vote save a diagnosis of monomania....

[Nerwen]

Nerwen. Nerwen, Nerwen, Nerwen. You are operating way too much under the assumption that the wolves knew Lhuna was the seer.

*exasperated sigh* How many times, and to how many people, do I have to explain this? Once again– I did not say that. I said this:

Now, was Lhuna killed for giving Seer hints? We can't assume this, but if she was it's more likely it was for picking a wolf than for babbling about pine cones. (I'd guess Gwathagor, in that case.)

However– why wasn't she killed in the night instead? Remember, she suspected everyone who voted her, so if there are wolves among them (I'm not one, as it happens), then they risked incriminating themselves.

That's if she was killed for being a Seer and not just a nuisance.

This was in the context of general speculation about whether the wolves had or hadn't picked her as the Seer, and lynched her. I wasn't saying anyone who voted her had to be a wolf at all– I was just trying to reason it out.

Did you actually read my post, or were you just going by what other people have said I said?

EDIT: X'd since Sally at #134.

[Thinlómien]

Somehow I predict a long post from Lommy in the next 5minutes. After which total chaos will arrive.Bad prediction. I only came back online less than 10 minutes ago and have been reading what has happened while I've been away...

Anyway, voting time approaches. I'm a bit torn between Nog and Gwath and seems like they will be attracting a lot of votes....

And I forgot to say this before, but weirdly enough (considering my own, rather strong opinion), I find Legate's certainity of Nogrod's guilt rather troubling...


edit: xed with everyone after Volo

[Volo]

Oukeei. Nerwen, Sally and Gwath (him especially) feel suspicious for starting out so near the deadline. There's no time to read the whole thread and vote in 10 minutes. :/

[Nogrod]

Fourteen until deadline, and only one vote in, unless I'm mistaken.I think there are two.

Kath -> Nogrod
Oddwen -> Gwath

Oddwen's vote was not bolded but it should count I suppose?

[satansaloser2005]

Oh dear. I just realized I left Mith out of my last post. Sorry!

I thought she was pretty innocent until her last post. I honestly don't think Lhuna dreamt of her, and Mith assuming that she did rubs me the wrong way. Hopefully nothing, but worth mentioning.

[Nogrod]

Not sure I have a good reasone to change my vote save a diagnosis of monomania....
You should get that quick before you people make bad decisions...

[Gwathagor]

I want to get my vote in early to avoid the rush.

++LEGATE

I'll try to come back before DL and back that up a bit, but right now I REALLY have to use the toilet...:(...so I might not make it back...

[Mithalwen]

Mind you he is getting defensive - which he reckoned was suspicious when I did it (allegedly) yesterday ;) As was my "stirring of the pot"...

[Mithalwen]

I want to get my vote in early to avoid the rush.

++LEGATE

I'll try to come back before DL and back that up a bit, but right now I REALLY have to use the toilet...:(...so I might not make it back...

Really too much information

[Thinlómien]

Aieeeeee, too hard to decide.

But to be honest (sorry guys :D) I won't be too sad to see either of Nog or Gwath go - there will be plenty to analyse toMorrow...


edit: xed with two Miths and a Gwath

[satansaloser2005]

I think there are two.

Kath -> Nogrod
Oddwen -> Gwath

Oddwen's vote was not bolded but it should count I suppose?



Erm, yeah. What he said. Sorry, totally missed her vote because it wasn't bolded and I was only skimming for votes.

And to Nerwen. Yes, I did happen to read your post. It still looks fishy to me, and now I'm thinking you're a little too eager to clear your name on the matter. Don't fret; I'm pretty sure that at least I'm not voting you today, so you can relax for now.

[Volo]

Suddenly I got the urge to vote to vote for Mith. But DON'T DO THAT TODAY!!!

[Mithalwen]

Oh dear. I just realized I left Mith out of my last post. Sorry!

I thought she was pretty innocent until her last post. I honestly don't think Lhuna dreamt of her, and Mith assuming that she did rubs me the wrong way. Hopefully nothing, but worth mentioning.

I didn't .... and how was it suspicious in my last post but not my first?

THAT looks odd to me...

[Volo]

Aargh! I've got a feeling that with most participents, this Day went to waste. :/ Truly, listen to Noggie when he says "speak up". (note to myself)

[Mithalwen]

++Nogrod

[Thinlómien]

Okay, sorry daddy if you're innocent... ;)

++NOGROD

edit: xed with everybody since my latest post

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

At least today I am more decided.

++Nogrod

Anyway I feel also more relaxed, as both Nog or Gwath are high on my list, and I'll be comfortable whichever of them ends up lynched (now that sounded pretty awful...).

EDIT: looks like x-ing is quite common here, who knows what I read as last... no wonder...

[satansaloser2005]

Really too much information




Ditto that.


Well....I think I'm voting for Gwath today. Not to be co-dependant, but I'm going to wait like one more minute and see how others are voting. Don't want to waste a vote on Gwath if it comes down to two other suspects being in close ranks lynchwise.

[Volo]

++Gwath.
To find out more about the voting.

[Thinlómien]

Why's Mith only talking about herself? Troubling...


edit: xed with Mr V

[Nogrod]

It looks like the whole village is filled with cobblers or something...

Okay.

I'll go with my top suspect who has not done too much to make himself look better toDay (refer to earlier discussions toDay).

++ Gwath

EDIT: X'd with a host...

[Mithalwen]

May not be fair but it is consistent and I just don't trust him ....

[satansaloser2005]

Oh noes!

I'd rather see Gwath go than Noggie at the moment, so....

++GWATH

[Volo]

I hope that there'll be a lot to find from the times people did various things toDay. Not the least - vote.

[Thinlómien]

This is interesting...

[Mithalwen]

Why's Mith only talking about herself? Troubling...


edit: xed with Mr V

I am the only person I know about? The rest baffle me... and I just can't get my head around it....

Hey I know since I am so troubling, get rid of me and I'll go back to my garden and hopefully a bottle of champagne?

[satansaloser2005]

Don't I know it.


Oh, believe me, Volo, as soon as I get my work done, I'm going to go through and write down all the vote times from the last two days. It helped me out a ton last game.

[Thinlómien]

Mith, stop that... :)

[Volo]

Mith, stop that... :(

[Meneltarmacil]

Time's up. Nogrod and Gwath are tied, and the lynchee will be chosen randomly.

[satansaloser2005]

I didn't .... and how was it suspicious in my last post but not my first?

THAT looks odd to me...


Because I missed it the first time. *sheepish face*:Merisu:


EDIT: Sorry, past DL. Oh well. Life goes on....

[Meneltarmacil]

"Gwathagor! Nogrod!" said the villagers. "Time for you werewolves to die!"

"Wait!" Gwath pleaded. "We need a fair trial. Plus, we can't have two people being lynched at the same time."

A die was rolled to determine who would die. Unfortunately for Gwathagor, it was him.

"Objection!" shouted the lawyer. "We don't have enough people here to make a proper jury, and I don't think anyone here is qualified to be a judge, either."

The villagers put his head into the noose despite his arguments.

"Well, since legal arguments won't work, I guess I'll have to use a more physical approach," threatened Gwath.

He dropped onto all fours. Thick gray fur suddenly grew all over him as he increased in size. Yellowish fangs sprouted in his mouth. His transformation into a large wolf complete, Gwathagor snarled viciously and lunged at the villagers.

However, he still had a noose around his neck, and just as they had with Lhuna, the villagers pulled with all their might on the rope, lifting the werewolf high in the air and choking it to death.

As they lowered the dead wolf to the ground, the villagers gave a sigh of relief. A werewolf had been killed.

Alive:
Kath
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mithalwen
Nerwen
Nogrod
Oddwen
satansaloser2005
The Elf-warrior
Thinlomien
Volo

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Crushed under falling cow by Wolves on Night 1.
Lhunardawen (Seer): Hung by villagers on Day 1.
Aganzir (Ordinary Villager): Made into shoes by Wolves on Night 2.
Gwathagor (Werewolf): Objections aside, hung by villagers on Day 2.

Night 3 begins. Villagers may not post until the beginning of Day 3. I need names as well.

[Meneltarmacil]

As the day began, there was a major commotion.

Bungo, Volo's gorilla, truned up in the village square making a lot of noise and pointing off into the woods.

"What's he going on about?" Nerwen wondered. "Volo, can't you keep him under control?

"Volo?"

But Volo was nowhere to be seen that morning. The villagers followed Bungo to Volo's cabin in the forest. Inside, they found a number of bones scattered around the floor, but it was Legate who saw the most hideous part of it.

Above the fireplace, the wolves had mounted Volo's head amongst the explorer's other trophies.

Alive:
Kath
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mithalwen
Nerwen
Nogrod
Oddwen
satansaloser2005
The Elf-warrior
Thinlomien

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Crushed under falling cow by Wolves on Night 1.
Lhunardawen (Seer): Hung by villagers on Day 1.
Aganzir (Ordinary Villager): Made into shoes by Wolves on Night 2.
Gwathagor (Werewolf): Objections aside, hung by villagers on Day 2.
Volo (Ordinary Villager): Turned into a hunting trophy by Wolves on Night 3.

Day 3 has begun.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hm, so Volo. Actually I'm a bit surprised, as I thought it will be Sally (because of her last vote which tied Gwath with Nog). But I am not happy with it nonetheless (well who would be), as Volo was among the ones I regarded more like innocent. Sufficient to say, had for example Nogrod been killed, I would have been maybe even happy :) Okay, sorry Nog, that wasn't nice, but sure my stance is understandable ;) After yesterday, I need to re-think whether it's possible that Nog would be a wolf even when Gwath was. I think I'm going to spend some time looking at Gwath and his relations with other people. But not sure if I'll do it rightaway, as I have other work to do... but hopefully soon. And if not today evening, then in the morning, in about 11 hours. Till then, good luck all of you who are innocent!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Another addittion. Btw I think it may be helpful if someone posted a voting list (I looked through it, but don't have time or nerves to put it together. I know, I'm lazy, but like I said, other work to do right now). But the late Gwath-voters (yes, even with Nogrod *sigh*) look better to me now. Unless there was a deliberate wolf-sacrificing action, which I don't think there was (although I'd like to look at peoples' arguments for voting Gwath, which may clear whether there's not some wolf hidden among them). Yes, I am noting this also for myself so that I don't forget :rolleyes: Whatever. See you later.

[Thinlómien]

Volo? Why? Did he seem gifted or something? Or was he just quite innocent-considered, not-so-vocal player whose death would not leave so much tracks?

YesterDay's voting was mad... I have to have a look at it at some phase, but not now, when I'm going to sleep.

I'm still suspicious of Nogrod and less suspicious of Legate because he has decreased his suspicion of Nogrod. If he was a wolf, I think he would continue the same "handy" suspicion. This is, unless they are fellow wolves, which is something I don't consider impossible.

[satansaloser2005]

Another addittion. Btw I think it may be helpful if someone posted a voting list (I looked through it, but don't have time or nerves to put it together. I know, I'm lazy, but like I said, other work to do right now). But the late Gwath-voters (yes, even with Nogrod *sigh*) look better to me now. Unless there was a deliberate wolf-sacrificing action, which I don't think there was (although I'd like to look at peoples' arguments for voting Gwath, which may clear whether there's not some wolf hidden among them). Yes, I am noting this also for myself so that I don't forget :rolleyes: Whatever. See you later.




In regards to the request for a voting list: Give me like 20 minutes. I need to type it on here and make sure I got all the votes and times and things right. But I'd be happy to.

[satansaloser2005]

Day One Votes:
Volo-->Volo at 5:32am
Lhuna -->Gwath at 2:01pm
Kath -->Legate at 4:42
Nerwen -->Lhuna at 5:37pm
Gwath -->Lhuna at 5:52pm
Mith -->Noggie at 6:37pm
Noggie -->Lhuna at 6:52pm
Elf -->Agan at 6:56pm
Lommie -->Gwath at 6:59pm
Agan -->Legate at 6:59pm
No voters: Legate, Oddie, Sally

Day Two Votes:
Kath -->Noggie at 11:30pm
Oddie -->Gwath at 2:39pm
Gwath -->Legate at 6:53pm
Mith -->Noggie at 6:56pm
Lommie-->Noggie at 6:56pm
Legate -->Noggie at 6:56pm
Volo -->Gwath at 6:57pm
Noggie -->Gwath at 6:58pm
Sally -->Gwath at 6:58pm
No voters: Elf, Nerwen


There they are! :)

EDIT: Sorry, put them all in my time zone! Fixed now, though!


EDIT AGAIN: I decided to note the known innocents and known wolf, just in case it helps anyone else. I color code for myself, but sadly that's not an option on the board I guess. :(

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I see this is going to end the typical way: almost no posts this far and when I awaken in the morning, there will be a host to read :rolleyes: Anyway, I read though Gwathagor's posts. Concerning people, after I read it all, I really don't believe Nogrod is another wolf, unless it was all a plan from him, because Gwath I'd think won't do such a thing to go after packmate Nog the way he did. Just look at almost any post of Gwath's, and he places Nog there into the same line with the ones who are dead.

UNLESS... now looking at the voting list... Gwath in fact voted for me! So may it be that he did not want to vote for Nog because he was a fellow wolf? Possibly? But then, there are indeed many arguments against. Hmm... not sure.

Otherwise: the track is complete, technically all whom Gwath accused, have been dead later. Odd. Anyway, he mostly mentioned all people, negatively, except for a few; and I think a Wolf may be there, at best among those whom he did not mention at all.

He very little mentioned Nerwen, just here:

However, I can’t say I like the look of Gwathagor, either– he just chimes in with other people– but then, as someone else noted, he always does. (Uh... which I guess means that now I’m chiming in...)Excuse me? When did I do that? But at least you preemptively acknowledged that you also are "chiming in" with other people (in this case Nogrod). That's good. Acknowledging your own suspiciousness is always a good ploy for averting further suspicion. (Ha!)

Then also Oddwen, with whom I'd say it looks worse, i.e. more probable that she were another wolf. Also similar times he mentions Elf Warrior:

Now look...I feel the same way about Oddwen's post, as she is just mimicking me and I think a couple others (?). That looks suspicious because repeating someone else is such an obviously safe move. However, Nogrod, you were awfully quick to identify my post as "wolvish"? (etc., speaking to Nog then)

I want to hear more from Oddwen and The Elf Warrior. We have lynched people for silence in the past...and we could do it again. Of course, silence usually is the safest defense.
Does anyone thing the formulation is odd? The last sentence does not logically fit in there, does it? It looks like praising silence??? Maybe a wolf hint to a friend among these two - "stay silent, that's the best defense"? Or how do you read it? I find that improbable and maybe I am reading too much to it (maybe a writing mischmatch), but it simply is odd.

To sally:
What case? Be more specific, please, and I'll do my best to oblige. I haven't seen any serious arguments or evidence leveled against me, but you seem pretty happy to seize on Oddwen's vote and call it a case - and THAT looks fuzzy, because you've been even less involved than Oddwen.
This is his other mentioning of Oddwen. Now I'm not sure whether he'd use a fellow wolf as an example, but it may be an attempt of defense.

And last, there is this:
Oddwen looks the worst of the quiet to me - but you all seem to be convinced that Lhuna found her innocent? To me, her sparse, non-involved voting/posting pattern seems like that of either a scavenging wolf or an irresponsible innocent.
This may be a time for trying to seem like arising a wolf-on-wolf suspicion, yet backing from it immediately because "the others are convinced she's innocent".

His handling of Nog, sally and Lommy seems too dangerous to me to think that any of these would be a fellow wolf.

As far as I know, he did not mention Mith nor Kath at all.

Nerwen, Oddwen, The Elf-warrior are the others who remain. One (or more eventually, if there's more wolves) of them may be his fellow packmate.

I think I should read what others say of Gwath. Maybe I will do Kath yet today, it should be fast with her.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Volo? Why? Did he seem gifted or something? Or was he just quite innocent-considered, not-so-vocal player whose death would not leave so much tracks?

Personally I think there was his self-vote which some considered innocentish, but mainly he was among Gwath-voters and also he interacted with him (or Gwath with him, respectively) the way that it could have been concluded that they are not peers, so after Gwath was lynched, Volo could have been one of the subjects possible to get out of the way. Nog was suspected by me and you; Sally... I really don't know why she wasn't killed... but maybe to puzzle us, to ask exactly this and suspect her of being a wolf... that would mean the wolf is someone clever... because I seriously find that hard to think that she is a wolf, after what she did yesterday. Also Gwath once a little interacted with her (it's quoted even in my post above) a little bit negatively. Oddwen voted first, that wasn't that apparent. Volo was simply the second vote, the one which makes the bandwagon not just one random vote, but which makes it rolling. Or so I see it.

As for votes: thanks, Sally. Now I'd wonder if Oddwolf would have started a Gwathwagon in the first place, as there was suspicion against him. Dangerous?

[satansaloser2005]

Here to serve, Master Legate.

You know, it was possible that an Oddie-wolf voted for Gwath and didn't think he'd actually get killed; I've seen wolves make bolder moves in my time. I've never played with Oddie before though. Would she do that?

[Oddwen]

Day One -

Gwath's first post mentions how he dislikes first days.

Nogrod jumps on this statement, says it's wolvish, calls lawyers useless.

Nogrod groups Lhuna & Oddwen with Gwath for the same reason as Gwath.

Lhuna calls Gwath a "guilty lawyer"

Gwath replies to Nogrod's suspicion of Oddwen with the defense "she is just mimicking me", calls repeating everyone "a safe move" - he says Nogrod "took no convincing whatsoever" that Gwath's post was wolvish, that Nogrod is either innocent as Lhuna said or a wolf. He leans toward Nogrod being innocent. Gwath says he likes Lhuna's lists, providing they are factual and not personal. He calls Legate "reasonable and impenetrable", but doesn't know what to make of him, and doesn't like Legate's gut feelings (towards Mith and Nogrod) calling them "too easy a basis for suspicion, and requires no actual evidence". He says "his other posts don't depend on "honest gut feelings", so maybe he's alright."

Oddwen questions Nogrod's grouping of herself with Gwath, calls the grouping of she, Gwath & Lhuna "hasty".

Oddwen replies to Gwath's assumption that she was repeating everyone else with a joke.

Legate says Gwath's post makes him feel uneasy, but feels that his opinion on Lhuna's list is "okay", says Lhuna's list are "statement of fact", but still could be twisted subtly. Legate wonders what Gwath sees as "reasonable" in his earlier posts, wonders if this is wolvish. Legate goes on to place Gwath in his "yellow zone", says that he "used to be worse...from an observer point".

Lommy feels there's something wrong, especially with Gwath & Legate, she replies to their discussion of Lhuna's list, calling them more "joking" than "helpful", nothing wrong with that, playfully says Gwath & Legate err in seeing it differently than she, calls their views "limited if not false". She finds Legate looks worse than Gwath, but finds Gwath calling Legate "reasonable" suspicious, as Legate does. She must think, but is watching those two, as is everyone else.

Nogrod agrees with Lommy about "Lhuna['s list]& the guys", thinks Legate & Gwath place too much importance on them. He says his suspicions from earlier on Gwath hasn't made Gwath look better, finding him "too verbiose", he feels better about Oddwen, doesn't know what to make of Lhuna.

Lhuna cannot imagine why Gwath would want her to only stick to facts, says if she had he should have been worried because that's something a wolf could hide behind, something a wolf could do safely to avoid incriminating themselves. She has an "honest gut feeling" that Gwath could be "sucking up" to Legate, calling it "quite a strategy" if Gwath was a wolf and Legate innocent. She says she'll vote for Nogrod, Gwath or Nerwen.

Aganzir doesn't find Gwath's "first-days-are-rubbish" post suspicious, says her first post wasn't constructive either but she wasn't suspicionated as were Oddwen and Lhuna. She asks why saying that makes one suspicious, asks if it's always wolves trying to contribute, asks if it's the same as suspecting the silent. She sarcastically says that it doesn't matter since Oddwen Gwath & Lhuna are wolves and she is the cobbler defending them from Nogrod. She finds Gwath suspicious because of similar behavior from other games where he was a wolf, calls Gwath calling Legate "reasonable" trying to gain an ally early. She says that Gwath saying "if there's anything a wolf cannot afford to be, it is irrational...But don't give me reason to think otherwise."[to Nogrod] makes her think that two fellow wolves pre-decided to not suspect each other.

Lhuna votes for Gwath, because he's the suspect that she "can defend from myself the least" (?). She wishes to give Nerwen more chance to speak, she calls Nogrod "always argumentative", though not always argumentatively sound. She says she's not played with Gwath before and doesn't know if this is how he usually is.

Nogrod replies to Aganzir's question about his first-day-hater-suspicion with the revelation that he was using it as "bait'. He called Gwath's reaction to it suspicious as he felt Gwath was reacting wolvishly. He calls Oddwen's reaction "Oddwenish", he says that that is no argument as wolves would try to be as normal as possible, he feels she is innocent. He feels that Lhuna "creeps me out", says she doesn't respond to his suspicions, wonders if her suspicion of him "without stating any reason" is retaliation, or wolvish. He calls Agan's opposition to the suspiciousness of Gwath good, as Gwath has been mentioned as suspicious and wolves generally latch onto existing suspicion. He says that Legate and Lhuna appear to be following suspicion in regards to Gwath, he wonders if it's genuine or if it's wolvish.

Lommy lists her suspicion level on everyone, she says that she doesn't suspect Gwath, Legate or Oddwen more than anyone else. She says that none of them strike her as particularly suspicious, she would be hesitant to vote for them on those grounds. She feels she would be following other's suspicions and not because she thought they were wolves. She fears grasping at imaginary straws.

Nerwen calls Lhuna's vote for Gwath "too easy". She doesn't like the look of Gwathagor, she feels he just chimes in with everybody, as she is doing here herself. She says that he always does.

Kath feels Gwath "gives the sentiments of most", thinks his thoughts on Legate are wild. She thinks Lhuna's vote for Gwath was "fair reasoning". Mentions Nerwen's suspicion of Gwath, Lhuna Legate Nog or Mith. She calls Nogrod's reaction to Gwath, Oddwen, Lhuna's first posts "kneejerk". She mentions Lommy's reaction to Legate & Gwath's reaction to Lhuna's list. She places Gwath, Legate, Nogrod, Lommy on her "guilty" list. She is tempted to vote either Legate or Gwath because they "argue themselves in circles" and delaying, votes for Legate because he argues with everyone.
(Gah, this is a list of a list!)

Gwath replies to Nerwen's accusation that he chimes in, says he doesn't think he does. He's glad she realizes she's suspicious, sarcastically calls it a ploy to avert further suspiciousness, he says she's chiming in with Nogrod. Gwath replies to Aganzir's thought that wolves don't plan much, calls it "far out", wonders if she's serious or throwing everyone off.

Aganzir replies to Nogrod's approval of her reluctance to go along with the common suspicion of Gwath, says she suspects Gwath but not for the reason Nogrod does.

Legate replies to Lommy's pairing of he and Gwath on the Lhuna-list issue, he says he wasn't agreeing with Gwath that they were helpful, says he was actually talking about Gwath, saying Gwath's interpretation of Lhuna's lists seemed logical. Says he was agreeing with Gwath's assessment, not with Gwath himself. He calls Gwath in the yellow, but doesn't quite want to vote for him because he'd rather vote for someone who hasn't contributed much, top of that list is Oddwen. Says we can always lynch Gwath tomorrow. Legate thinks Lhuna's voting for Gwath is good because she's not going after Legate, her supporter, but he still finds her slightly suspicious.

Aganzir questions Gwath's question about her question about wether wolves plan, asking what he didn't understand.

Gwath doesn't like the "myths" that have sprung up around him, he says he doesn't chime in with people, says he's not trying to flatter Legate, says that Legate does seem rational and that he's a "sucker for rational arguments". (No myth #3?) Says he's not been arguing in circles with Legate, that he's mentioned Legate once. He's suspicious of everyone.

Nogrod thinks Gwath is suspicious based on arguments, thinks he's suspicious in himself, not in with someone else.

Aganzir thinks that the suspicions of Gwath based on him saying Legate is rational is strange because she doesn't think Legate seemed rational.

Legate responds to Kath's thougths on himself, thinks she and Gwath might be fellow wolves but that that might be overcomplicating her meaning.

Legate responds to Gwath's Legate-is-rational thought with the explanation that he himself didn't think he was rational. Legate replies to the Gwath-and-Legate-are-arguing-alot theory with the theory that whoever started that is suspicious (Lhuna?).

Nogrod feels that Gwath's "myths" are fairly reasonable. Nogrod says that unlike Gwath & Nerwen, he was included in Lhuna's suspicion list without a conclusive argument.

Gwath doesn't like the way Nogrod directs suspicion, calls him "controlling" and "master-wolf". He feels Lhuna's vote for him is "flippant". He feels Volo's self-vote is more wolvish than innocent. He suspects Volo, Nogrod and Lhuna. He wants to hear more from the quiet ones.

Gwath mistakes the times, votes for Lhuna, thinking it's the last minute? Says he won't vote for Volo because he needs more evidence, threatens tomorrow.

Gwath apologizes for his wrong time.

Aganzir asks Gwath to answer an earlier question of hers, says he's gotten by in the past by ignoring questions. Says she'll vote Legate, Gwath or Lhuna.

Gwath answers Aganzir's question, he thinks that it's silly to think that wolves don't plan because they have a whole day.

Aganzir acknowledges Gwath's answer.

Lommy thinks Legate overreacted to the Lhuna-Gwath thing? She thinks Gwath looks a little more innocent.

Nogrod agrees with Gwath regarding Volo seeking to be obviously innocent without incriminating himself with a vote for another with his self-vote. Nogrod says that someone accompanying his own arguments to be extremely suspicious, Gwath's not getting anywhere with his flattery. Oh yeah, and Elf-Warrior, just because you think I'm innocent, that's not getting you anywhere either! Even if Gwath agrees with me about the suspiciousness of Volo and Lhuna!

Aganzir says it doesn't matter to her wether it's Legate, Lhuna or Gwath gets lynched, they're all equally suspicious to her.

Aganzir changes her statement, she says Lhuna's death would give the most insight (ha!) feeling that it would shed light on the alignment of Volo, Legate or Gwath.

Legate would rather not vote Gwath that Day, since Gwath started looking "better", but he expresses doubt about that as well.

Gwath replies to Aganzir's musings on wolves and planning, saying her point is that people tend to over-analyze.

Lommy says that of the people garnering votes, she would rather see Gwath go - though he seems no guiltier than anyone else.

Lommy votes for Gwath, for being "slightly fishy/unreasonable", not because he's any more suspicious to her.

Lhuna dies.

Edit: x-ed since Lommy

[Nogrod]

The icehockey game between the US and Canada was just marvellous entertainment even if the better team lost.

With this game then...

Sorry but I'm too tired to think right now.

Still, even if I know this got me nearly lynched yesterDay I'd say watch for Lommy though. I - don't - like - the - way - she- behaves. :rolleyes:

Legate: have I missed something or why do you think the wolves should have killed Sally?

Also, if Oddwen is a wolf she is really bold as it was clear - well at least I thought it was clear - that Gwath was one having a lot of suspicion on him and so a possible lynch-candidate... and with this many of us still alive I don't think the wolves would particularly wish to reduce their precious numbers this early in exchange for credibility.

EDIT: X'd with Oddwen's novel... back tomorrow (RL)

[satansaloser2005]

Legate: have I missed something or why do you think the wolves should have killed Sally?


Most likely because I tied the voting between you and Gwath. To be honest, I thought I'd be dead too. *shifty eyes* Not that I'm complaining.


P.S. Did we beat 'em? Not that I particularly care, but it provides further distraction from the tasks at hand.... :P

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

You know, it was possible that an Oddie-wolf voted for Gwath and didn't think he'd actually get killed; I've seen wolves make bolder moves in my time. I've never played with Oddie before though. Would she do that?

Well, anything is possible. I don't know. I am going to sleep now, so feel free to run around here and analyse... whatever... I just briefly looked at Nerwen and Kath and it looks like Nerwen only briefly interacted with Gwath, but there was something in that repetitive argument of hers... the one she had to repeat several times... which got me to think her
innocent... or having nothing to do with Gwath... it was this:
Now, was Lhuna killed for giving Seer hints? We can't assume this, but if she was it's more likely it was for picking a wolf than for babbling about pine cones. (I'd guess Gwathagor, in that case.)
Not sure how much weight this has however...

And Kath... well she among other things also brought forward the possibility of Gwath being dreamt of... although she could do even that as a Wolf I'd think... so I don't know...

I need to sleep on it all. Good night.

EDIT: X-ed with really ODD wen and others. Someone's gone mad here.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate: have I missed something or why do you think the wolves should have killed Sally?
Most likely because I tied the voting between you and Gwath.
Yes, that was it. Unless the wolves were Gwath-Nog-Sally and yesterday it'd be a brutal sacrifice. But not that I'd believe it much probable.

Also, if Oddwen is a wolf she is really bold as it was clear - well at least I thought it was clear - that Gwath was one having a lot of suspicion on him and so a possible lynch-candidate... and with this many of us still alive I don't think the wolves would particularly wish to reduce their precious numbers this early in exchange for credibility.
Oh my, I'm inclined to clear him based on how Gwath behaved towards him and all, and now look he again ACTS so STRANGE... just what's going on with you Nog? You are too... reckless! Normally you are not that easy to jump on someone like that!

But now really, good night.

[satansaloser2005]

Stop posting and go to bed, Legate! :rolleyes:

Okay, I'm off to (hopefully) do some analysis, after some haphazardly done course work. Back later with a reply.

[Nogrod]

Most likely because I tied the voting between you and Gwath.So? I still don't see the point...

And a word of caution to my suggestion of watching Lommy: the voting records just caught my eye. Lommy voted for Gwath on Day1 as the second last voter (one minute before the DL) bringing him one vote away from Lhuna. In the end there were three people who didn't vote that Day but I'd say that would be really bold move from a fellow-wolf because she couldn't know who would vote and whom! I'll take that as an argument on her favour. It would just have been a bit too risky.

So needs to think things once again from almost the beginnings... tomorrow. :confused:

EDIT X'd with Sally & Legate... reckless? jumping on someone? Sorry but I didn't get that one either...

[satansaloser2005]

....

As in, I voted for Gwath, therefore making it fairly certain he'd be the lynchee.

That's not why I'm surprised I wasn't killed though. I've just been a lot more normal(ish) this game and so the wolves didn't need to keep me around to stir up trouble like usual. I don't know. There has to be SOME reason why they'd kill Volo....I just need to figure it out.

[Oddwen]

Disclaimer - I made the above list for myself, just searched for "Gwath" and put my interpretation on what I found. Mainly so I wouldn't have five pages open in my browser. I unfortunately don't have time to do Day 2 or either of the dead innocents at the time, so am reading day 2 right now, and hopefully I can do the rest.

What stands out after making that list is, predictably, the discussions between Gwath and Nogrod - Nogrod has had equally longer discussions with most of you, but you will note by my italicized section above what I find to be the most suspicious between the two there. And yes, this is all based on Day one discussions, but I'm finding really nothing on Day 2 to say against that.

I'd pull out my ol' favorite term "thrashing" and staple it to Nogrod, except the way I usually use it is when a sometime-proven innocent briefly touches upon a wolf, and the wolf goes berserk - and in this case, a known wolf is at the throat of an unknown, and they're both at it. Then again, this applies to Nogrod & Lommy as well - I'm wondering if this could be a wolf goading a known argumentative, or a wolf being argumentative. Right now, I'll just call him LOUD.

You know, it was possible that an Oddie-wolf voted for Gwath and didn't think he'd actually get killed; I've seen wolves make bolder moves in my time. I've never played with Oddie before though. Would she do that?

I don't vote for people I don't want to die. (Oooh, considering my track record for this game, I've got a perfect record!) I made a gamble. It seemed to me that Lhuna made a stronger offence at a wolf than a defense for any innocent, and I acted on it.

Oh noes!

I'd rather see Gwath go than Noggie at the moment, so....

++GWATH

And I must ask - is it possible that a Sally-wolf voted for a Gwath? Would you do that?

Did you intentionally tie Nog & Gwath, or did you not know that think you were making a safe vote for the runner up, not knowing Nogrod & Volo were voting just then? Or not?

x-ed since the next-to-last Leggy.

[Thinlómien]

Oddwen's summary confused me. :rolleyes: :D I think I'll go through Gwath's posts on my own, even though I must admit that currently I feel terribly lazy.

Sally - you left me out from your day2 voting summary. I voted Noggie, after Mith but before Legate. (Although we all cross-posted, so...)

I want to hear more from Oddwen and The Elf Warrior. We have lynched people for silence in the past...and we could do it again. Of course, silence usually is the safest defense.
Does anyone thing the formulation is odd? The last sentence does not logically fit in there, does it? It looks like praising silence??? Maybe a wolf hint to a friend among these two - "stay silent, that's the best defense"? Or how do you read it? I find that improbable and maybe I am reading too much to it (maybe a writing mischmatch), but it simply is odd.Yes, it's surely odd, but I don't think it looks like a secret advice to a fellow. Maybe because I don't believe in wolves advising one another in their posts, it always seems a bit far-fetched to me. But I don't have any idea what to make of it.

Okay, maybe I'm off to reread and think of something more insightful to say...

[Thinlómien]

(I'm not commenting on anything that Gwath and Legate said about each other since I already analysed that yesterDay.)

Day1

I find it odd that after only one post of Gwath's, Nogrod says "first red lights have been alighted". It seems like overreacting a bit. Of course he claims to be provoking a reaction, which might be true. But I could also see this is a wolf trying to evaluete his fellow's behaviour objectively and ending up overreacting. Okay, I'm probably reading too much into it, but it was just a thing I noticed. Of course this is this weird "making an excuse" of hating day1s -issue, which I don't quite understand, but which looks more innocent than not.

Gwath's words about Nogrod are incredibly fishy: However, Nogrod, you were awfully quick to identify my post as "wolvish"? You took no convincing whatsoever, so either you are trigger-happy and innocent, as Lhun said, or you really do know whether I am innocent or guilty. And THAT looks suspicious, because the only way you could know that is if you are a wolf yourself. I lean towards trigger-happy innocent, based on the sheer quirkiness and irrationality of your attack on my first post - if there's anything a wolf cannot afford to be, it is irrational. Or so my vast experience of Three Whole Games would lead me to believe. But don't give me reason to think otherwise.Rather forceful attack (could speak against them being fellows, but I could aslo see Gwath as being slitghly offended by fellow-Nog starting to suspect him early and putting him into spotlight or joining in the fun of accusing fellows) and then backing away and saying "don't give me a reason to think otherwise2, which always sounds quite bad. Hmm... and I'm just wondering, would Gwath's slip (what he said considering Nogrod knowing whether he was innocent or guilty) make sense if Nogrod was his fellow and really knew his guilt? I think it would. (Or it could. :rolleyes: I'm aware of falling to my worst ww habit: acting based on a suspicion and interpreting everything as if the suspicion was true. Argh.)

Of those I expressed a mild suspicion earlier I'd say Gwath's actions haven't exactly made him look better (he's too verbiose and "explanative")I think this looks quite honest. If he and Gwath were fellows, I think he would rather not even mention this or say that Gwath has seemed more innocent lately.

However, I can’t say I like the look of Gwathagor, either– he just chimes in with other people– but then, as someone else noted, he always does. (Uh... which I guess means that now I’m chiming in...)One could say this about a fellow wolf. But on the other hand, at least I keep making statements like this all the time, and I'm mostly innocent.
Gwath later replied this way:
Excuse me? When did I do that? But at least you preemptively acknowledged that you also are "chiming in" with other people (in this case Nogrod). That's good. Acknowledging your own suspiciousness is always a good ploy for averting further suspicion. (Ha!)I don't think it looks like something he would be likely to say to a fellow wolf.

Kath, she really raises my alarms. She really doesn't have much against Gwath (the only thing she mentions is that he and legate argue in circles) yet she places him in the suspicious category and says she's tempted to vote him, but goes on and votes Legate. This looks like she's sharing the common suspicion to avoid attention and look good if Gwath is lynched, but still trying not contributing to him getting lynched, probably hoping that he can be saved.

I don't like the way that Nogrod slides by the end of Day from having Gwath as more or less top suspect to this Lhuna-Volo connection theory, which is, in my opinion, rather far-fetched and an odd base for a vote in the first place.

Gwath kept being rather forcefully against Nogrod but voted Lhuna. Not sure what to make of this.

I don't have time to go through Day2, so it has to wait. Solely based on this Nog and Kath look quite bad. But half of the work undone, I can't be sure. But a trio like that sounds quite credible to me (although I'm not sure at all... Kath's vote yesterDay would have been rather bold in that case).

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hm, actually, what Lommy wrote up here makes sense a lot to me. It really may be that Nog was voting Gwath yesterday simply because there was no one else to vote (although it was last minute and still other votes could have been cast f.ex. for me, like from Sally or Volo who voted about the same time... and Nog himself says he x-posted there with a lot, so who knows how it were?), it will also give one more reason to Gwath to vote me and not Nog, even though the bandwagon against him was already started (i.e. there was one vote for Gwath and one for Nog, now there was suspicion against Nog and Gwath voiced even some himself, so it might have been convinient for a wolf to simply jump on the bandwagon in the case Nog were innocent). It's just all their exchanges which would have to be made up by them... I don't really know.

As for Kath, that's another thing, and it's also possible for her to be Gwath's fellow packmate.

In any case, I'll be leaving now, but will be back in let's say three hours. I will probably have to vote early also today, short after that, and won't be here for DL. I can't probably think of much more than until now, so I will probably just vote for one of these two, or eventually some Oddwen if something else will happen. If Elf-Warrior or such is a Wolf, I won't bother with him now, as he's not around, and who knows, he may be modfired or whatever. In any case, there are other things to worry about, and if he is a wolf and we lynch all others, it will eventually surely come to lynching him when the village has four or so people :p

[Mithalwen]

Hi I am here. Won't have much time til later.

Well it is now quite evident why Lhuna died - she clearly put the wind up the wolves with her suspicion of Gwathagor whoever she dreamt off ...

However wolf picks can be quite random - especially if there is a ranger or the possibility of a ranger, so it may be wise to focus on what the people we don't know about are saying than too much on the words of a dead ordo.

[Kath]

Hmm, some answers and then another look at what's going on I think now I've finally made it into the right thread.

So, Lommy. You didn't like me making everything very black and white and just having lists. That's how I've decided to work. I used to analyse a lot and turn myself in circles and just be confused, so now I make snap decisions and it seems to work a little better. For example, I had Gwath, Legate and Nog as suspicious and one of those at least turns out right! Of course I had little basis for suspicion, it was Day 1, I had very little more suspicion of Legate but just enough to edge him in front. Had I been trying to protect Gwath I would not have mentioned Lhuna possibly dreaming of him.

As to now, I think Volo's death makes sense. He hadn't been around much, looks like an attempt at a safe kill to me. Suspects wise, I'm actually inclined to stick with my previous ones: Legate and Nog. Although Nog is looking less suspicious to me toDay. He has toned down the aggrieved act a bit which definitely helps though it's still there. Legate ... I have nothing concrete against Legate but whenever I read his posts it just feels wrong, like every word is being too deliberately thought out.

I actually wouldn't be enormously surprised if we had a Gwath-Legate-Nog wolf triad. It may have been a bold move to suspect their own so early but I know Nog is a bold player and I wouldn't put it past Legate either.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I think Kath's above post makes my view of her worse, the way she acts looks somewhat wolfy, just overall, explaining yet staying back... simply, I had a bad feeling from it.

Of course I had little basis for suspicion, it was Day 1, I had very little more suspicion of Legate but just enough to edge him in front. Had I been trying to protect Gwath I would not have mentioned Lhuna possibly dreaming of him.
This is merely taking up one point I mentioned earlier toDay as an counter-evidence for Kath not being a wolf. Why not, but it's the only point, and it may be so that Kathwolf simply quotes it as well because she knows others (namely me) thought about it too, and also of course if she were a wolf, she might have mentioned it in the first place just for this reason. If there are other reasons why we should not think she were united with Gwath, she could add them and not just mention this one. You know what I mean? Maybe there aren't and she is simply clinging to what was voiced.

Or, if we have three wolves, then it's Gwath-Nog-Kath and then it'd be solved.

I don't know now, will, as I said, have to vote fast. I am not very comfortable with it and I also think I could have put more effort because I actually believe if we really properly looked through older posts, now when we know that Gwath was a Wolf, we could find the remaining one or two wolves by good analysis this time. Alas, I don't have time for this. Will be back in about an hour and cast my vote. Isn't it so quiet here?

[Thinlómien]

Had I been trying to protect Gwath I would not have mentioned Lhuna possibly dreaming of him.But I think someone had already mentioned the possibility, so it didn't matter.

But Kath... you confuse me. Your response is too defensive yet there's something innocent in it. Also, I have the feeling that two of the remaining wolves will be found in the group formed by you, Nog and Legate, and you accusing them so loudly makes me wonder. Either I'm right, you're innocent and our minds work similarily or I'm right, you're not innocent and you're trying to win something by separating yourself from them so forcefully, or I'm not right and wolves are laughing at me. :rolleyes: Anyway, at least one of you is a wolf, or I'll eat my head. If the other remaining wolf is some sneakie excellent at playing innocent (Nerwen? Oddwen? even Mith or Sally? or the absent Elf-warrior?). But, whatever you say Kath, I think you're most probably guilty of you three, not because you're more suspicious than the others, but because it all fits better with you and one of Nog or Legate being fellows than with the two of them together.

edit: xed with Legate

[satansaloser2005]

Sorry, late night. Just got up and already have to run to class,
so I'm going to be quiet for a while.


Or, if we have three wolves, then it's Gwath-Nog-Kath and then it'd be solved.

Gwath and Noggie? Um, I find that highly unlikely as a wolf pairing. Kath, on the other hand, makes a lot of sense. I've been finding her kind of fishy for a while but haven't had any evidence to support it. I would be happy with a Kath lynch today, just to put that out there in case anyone wants to know.

Okay, I need to go to class; just felt the need to post SOMETHING before I went away for a while.



EDIT: x'd with Lommy

[Thinlómien]

Or, if we have three wolves, then it's Gwath-Nog-Kath and then it'd be solved.What? Why "or, if we have three wolves"? Isn't that the probable scenario? Or are there just two wolves in this game and they were you and Gwath and you just slipped? This is starting to be more and more confusing...

edit: xed with Sally

[Nogrod]

Sorry but this day seems to be much more busier I anticipated. But I have a few moments now and then before the deadline.

On the basis of votings there are three people I'd say are more innocent than not. In the order of their innocence in my eyes they are: Sally, Lommy and Oddwen.

Sally brought Gwath level with me yesterDay at the last minute while it would have been easy for her to vote me just saying something like "let's check Noggie out then" or something and thence gen an innocent lynched & save her mate. And as I said earlier it would be a bit too high a price with this many villagers left for a wolf to buy "credence" with a fellow-sacrifice.

Lommy's vote in the end of Day1 would have been really dangerous as wolf-game. When she voted four players hadn't voted yet and she brought Gwath to be the runner-up in a last minute.

Oddwen began voting Gwath and there clearly was a general mood in the air that Gwath might be one of the main candidates that Day. So a pretty bold move for a wolf - even if not as bold as Sally's or Lommy's were they wolves.

Anyway. I'm going to leave these three out from my condsideration as to who's our remaining wolves for a moment. It helps to focus.

EDIT: x'd with many...

[Thinlómien]

Lommy's vote in the end of Day1 would have been really dangerous as wolf-game. When she voted four players hadn't voted yet and she brought Gwath to be the runner-up in a last minute. Okay, good, I remember to do that to my fellow when I'm a wolf... ;) :p

Seriously though, now I'll finish the analysis on Gwath & Day2...

[Nerwen]

Hello, everyone. My apologies for prolonged silence, but I have had the most horrifyingly awful day in RL.

I need to read toDay's posts, and also re-read yesterDay's. As a preliminary comment, I'll say that I don't like the way certain people went after me for theorising about the implications of the Seer's lynching– especially now that we know Gwath was a wolf...

[Thinlómien]

(Again, leaving some Gwath-Legate stuff out...)

Day2

This is not straightly related to Gwath, but rather to my Gwath-Kath-Nog theory. I'm afraid it's not waterproof.
He's pretty much defending Gwath, though subtly, saying Gwath wouldn't have picked up the cues and suggesting Lhuna didn't dream of him. The fact that my suspicion of Nog is growing makes me wonder about this, but then I'm not sure a Nog-wolf would be so obvious.What! Hey, was this a slip? Why is defending Gwath subtly so incriminating? Kath had said she was suspicious of Gwath, but not that much. Is she letting her real knowlegde (ie that Gwath is guilty) show here accidentally? Creepy. Or is this just a general "defending others subtly is suspicious" thing? Well, even in that case, I'm afraid, Kath looks quite furry...
Now I'm just wondering if wolf-Kath would say such a thing about wolf-Nog considering wolf-Gwath...

Like it has been said many times, Oddwen would be very bold if she was a wolf.

There's something odd, if not necessarily suspicious, in the relationship between Nerwen and Gwath & Nogrod. (I'm not implying they're a wolf trio... I would think it rather unprobable that Nogrod and Nerwen were fellows...)

The way Sally comments on Lhuna's possible dream of Gwath seems rather innocent.

Only, about - and to - Gwathagor. If you are not a wolf, I would like to warn you about something, at least I think that's your style of playing: you give too much to what others think. Think for yourself!If I believed in wolves giving each other advice, I'd take a second look at this.

Gwath voted Legate when there seemed to be little support for this suspicion. Was there so little that he could safely vote a fellow, guessing he would die, and his fellow would thus look good? Or was he double-bluffing and trying to make Legate look guilty by this logic? Or did he think Nogrod and maybe I or someone else would join the bandwagon?

Legate voted Nogrod saying:
Anyway I feel also more relaxed, as both Nog or Gwath are high on my list, and I'll be comfortable whichever of them ends up lynched (now that sounded pretty awful...).Which I would call downright suspicious if my own attitude towards the situation hadn't been so much the same...

Okay, conclusions coming in a minute but I doubt it's anything new...


edit: xed with Nerwen

[Nogrod]

Of the rest the only one I have some clearer suspicions and that is Nerwen - I suspected her somewhat already yesterDay but with second look I'm a bit more worried.

Her reaction to Lhuna's seerdom after starting Lhuna-voting herself on Day1 looked both overdefencive and included that little slip I qwuoted you yesterDay. Also her answer to that was a trial to deny what she had said. If you don't remember it I'll just quote the basic lines.

there were already votes on Volo, Gwath and Legate at the point when Nerwen voted. Why was she afraid - already then as she claims - the wolves might jump particularly on her vote? Why did she vote for Lhuna if she wasn't actually the most suspicious one in her eyes?
I was not afraid that the wolves might jump particularly on my vote. Where did you get that idea? I was speaking mostly on general principles
And the original which I referred to was of course like this: I was, of course, afraid of wolves jumping on my vote

Also she said earlier (her first post on Day2 that is)However– why wasn't she [Lhuna] killed in the night instead? Remember, she suspected everyone who voted her, so if there are wolves among them (I'm not one, as it happens), then they risked incriminating themselves.So in the same sentence she manages to say out aloud that she is innocent + say that anyway the wolves would have acted boldly (meaning "were she a wolf" she of course wouldn't have acted that way eg. making a double defence there for herself?).

In the end all the little she did yesterDay was defending herself even if there never were any strong suspicions on her.

Could be jumpy like a wolf...

EDIT: X'd wikth Nerwen and Lommy

[Oddwen]

My suspicions are strongest of Nogrod - and only slightly less of Sally, I've yet to be convinced she knew she was casting the tying vote between Gwath & Nogrod & thought it was a "safe" vote - Lommy is behaving much the same way as Nogrod, not sure if that's the family resemblance - there are also suspicions of Nerwen & ElfWarrior, Kath, Legate.

I guess that leaves Mith, who seems honest. I don't know about innocent, but honest certainly.

Drat, time flies when you need it to pause.

Late for work again,

++NOGROD

[Thinlómien]

Okay: in short, my conclusion is my well-promoted opinion, ie that probably two, but at least one of Nogrod, Kath and Legate is a wolf.

Kath and Nogrod seem most like Gwath's comrades, but I'm not sure if it really looks like they were fellows. If they are, Kath is playing it riskily (although Nogrod's Day1 show of "wow, I consider Kath innocent" would nicely fit). That would also fit my mental image since Legate seems most innocent of the three in terms of general manner and because if he was Nogrod or Kath's fellow, he'd be a real backstabber. But that of course is a possibility...

Legate and Nogrod, now that would be a scenario. I would not be surprised to see them as wolves debating and suspecting each other like they have, but somehow, if you add Gwath accusing them both to the mix, it's just too much. But I've not discounted this possibility.

Kath and Legate? I think this is the second-best theory of these three, but there are weak points in this one as well. Kath would have been quite bold to vote Legate on Day1 and especially as to put herself in a situation where she was choosing the one to vote from her two fellows. Yet it's not impossible, I know...

I may sound a bit obsessed, but I simply think these combinations make most sense. Oddwen would be really really bold if she was Gwath's fellow (and she sounds a bit too honest to be a wolf), Mith would be really dishonest and uncharacteristic to claim ordoness when wolf, Sally would be madly bold and I just can't bring myself to consider Elf-Warrior yet. Nerwen is the only real possibility, but she doesn't stand out the same way my three top suspects do and her overall manner is quite innocent in my opinion. I would think it extremely improbable that there is more than wolf among these people, so that's why I'm all for lynching Nogrod, Kath or Legate, especially as I think that by removing one name from that trio we have the two remaining wolves named.

A miracle is needed if I'm not to vote any of those three toDay.


edit: xed with Oddwen

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I read briefly and not too deeply up to about post 241 (hey this is just what I said - all the time NOTHING ,and now a million posts when I don't have time :rolleyes: ). Anyway, just some things...

What? Why "or, if we have three wolves"? Isn't that the probable scenario? Or are there just two wolves in this game and they were you and Gwath and you just slipped?
Nope, that's just a matter of expression - imagine brackets there instead of commas. That is : "Or (if we have three wolves) ..." Speaking of it, I consider both as probable as the other - two or three.

Sally brought Gwath level with me yesterDay at the last minute while it would have been easy for her to vote me just saying something like "let's check Noggie out then" or something and thence gen an innocent lynched & save her mate. And as I said earlier it would be a bit too high a price with this many villagers left for a wolf to buy "credence" with a fellow-sacrifice.
OH MY! AGAIN! But Nog, you have said clearly the opposite at the start of the day. What caused this change of opinion? You were all "Why do you think Sally was innocent?" and when it was explained by that she leveled Gwath with you, you still said something like "And so what?" What the heck? Did you rethink it? Well nothing against it, but your behavior... oh my...

Anyway, heck. I am going to go for Kath now, but Nog sir, if you are a wolf, don't laugh, you won't see the daylight for much longer. I have to take care of my frogs now. Fare all well folks, except for the wolves!

++Kath

Although I must confess I feel uneasy. But whatever. See ya later...

P.S. And just can't resist:
Anyway, at least one of you is a wolf, or I'll eat my head.
Oh poor my, I hope that's not going to happen :D

[Thinlómien]

Oh poor my, I hope that's not going to happen :DI'm quite confident it won't... and besides, if it happens, I deserve it. ;)

Okay, I read briefly and not too deeply up to about post 241
Post 241? Ooh, Legate is in the future... :p

[satansaloser2005]

My suspicions are strongest of Nogrod - and only slightly less of Sally, I've yet to be convinced she knew she was casting the tying vote between Gwath & Nogrod & thought it was a "safe" vote - Lommy is behaving much the same way as Nogrod, not sure if that's the family resemblance - there are also suspicions of Nerwen & ElfWarrior, Kath, Legate.

I guess that leaves Mith, who seems honest. I don't know about innocent, but honest certainly.

Drat, time flies when you need it to pause.

Late for work again,

++NOGROD



I. Do not. Like this. Now, I don't mean to be defensive, but I don't understand how mine was a "safe vote," especially since I was risking Gwath's death with only two votes left to come in. Now, if Noggie is a wolf, your theory is definitely valid, but I think it would be a better wolf strategy to doom him rather than tie up the vote with Gwath. Does that make sense? (Apologies, started this post and am finishing it in class so I kind of lost my train of thought. I'll be happy to clarify if needed)

Noggie himself seems off to me. When Legate found me innocent based on my vote for Gwath, Noggie did not find this significant. When we clarified the importance of my vote, he still had some sort of a "Bwah? Why is that relevant?" Then toDay he says he finds me innocent for the same reason Legate stated previously. This definitely strikes me as odd; he may have an explanation for this switch, or he may have re-examined the points Legate and I made. Either way, I still find him slightly innocent, though this latest behavior is disconcerting.



EDIT: x'd with everything since Oddie

[Thinlómien]

Why is it so silent?

Because all vocal players are wolves and afraid of saying anything? And the quiet ones are behaving just characteristically? Okay, whatever :p but it just makes me wonder since it's quite close to deadline and usually there's far more talk at this time of the Day.

I'm tempted to vote and leave and close the computer for the rest of the day but that'd be quite stupid... *sigh* Speak up if you're there...


edit: typical... just when I was complaining about silence... ( = cross-posted with Sally)

[satansaloser2005]

Sorry, Lommy. Sally's not here right now. She died from being crushed by a giant pile of homework. Lack of sleep also contributed to her demise.



I'm here(ish) for the rest of the Day, so don't fret. Just going to be rather quiet as I'm rather tired and busy.

[Thinlómien]

At least you make me feel less lonely...

[Mithalwen]

Just got let outof work and need to apologise for my blonde moment at lunchtime. I didn't have my note book or much time and only when I started trying to work out who was left did I remember that you eejits :p lynched my baby girl .... not the wolves .. though on reflection I may well find out I was right first time. .. off to catch up... or make a random decision and enjoy the fabulous weather....

[Nerwen]

Okay, I've read through everything now and I can see Nogrod OR Legate as wolves, based on their relations with Gwath and on erratic behaviour, especially from Nogrod– but not both of them. Unless they have some elaborate evil masterplan going.

I agree with Lommy and Legate that Kath seems not “right” in her general manner, but when you look at when she’s actually done it’s not that much, apart from the possible slip Lommy noted and thing about her saying she suspected Gwath and then voting Legate.

Sally has mostly seemed okay, though I’m quite concerned about this:

Now, I don't mean to be defensive, but I don't understand how mine was a "safe vote," especially since I was risking Gwath's death with only two votes left to come in.

Edit: X'd with Mithalwen.

[Nerwen]

Anyway, I have to vote now. I wish I had a bit longer to make up my mind, but here goes–

++Nogrod.

I think he looks rather the furriest.

[Thinlómien]

I think we should lynch Nogrod or Kath toDay, then the remaining one toMorrow and if not both of them have been guilty, then lynch Legate next. Then if we haven't found any wolves, I'll eat my head. If we have found only one, I'll hit my head against the wall but swear to find the last one, and will be looking at everyone.

Any preferences whether Nog or Kath should go toDay? ;)


edit: xed with Nerwen... I can see a preference...

[satansaloser2005]

I still don't think Nog is guilty. Kath, on the other hand, gives me bad vibes. I really wish she could say more, but what I see doesn't seem right. I'd much prefer to lynch Kath, so unless something changes, I'll be voting her.


Oh, and for Nerwen. Sorry, I should have explained. I don't mind being accused, I'd just like to be accused based on something that makes a little more sense (no offense Oddie)

[Mithalwen]

Well I never have a clue about darling duckie - and well somehow ..Nogrod just seems to be in woluf mode .. but I need to look seriously ....

[satansaloser2005]

If you all don't mind posting, I'd be most grateful. I have another hour and a half before class and I'd like to get a nap in. If not, that's fine. I'll wait a bit longer to vote, and if no one shows, I'll just vote and go crash. Otherwise I'll hold out until DL.

[Nogrod]

Back again...

Okay. First there is something rotten in here... (and this only one of the similar oddities I've seen in this game)

Legate says: You were all "Why do you think Sally was innocent?" and when it was explained by that she leveled Gwath with you, you still said something like "And so what?" What the heck? Did you rethink it? Well nothing against it, but your behavior... oh my...

What I said was: Legate: have I missed something or why do you think the wolves should have killed Sally?

It was a question whether it was probable that wolves kill Sally - not whether she is innocent. Being the one to get a wolf killed is no reason for wolves to make their kill on. Retaliatory kills aren't the ones wolves would go for but ones that are useful to them.

But what the heck. You seem to have made your minds already.

Is it a village with a host of cobblers, two competing wolf-teams targeting the same person or something...?

[satansaloser2005]

It was a question whether it was probable that wolves kill Sally - not whether she is innocent. Being the one to get a wolf killed is no reason for wolves to make their kill on. Retaliatory kills aren't the ones wolves would go for but ones that are useful to them.

But what the heck. You seem to have made your minds already.


Thanks for clarifying. That makes a lot more sense. :)


I need to look at more in-depth. Back in a bit.

[Thinlómien]

Is it a village with a host of cobblers, two competing wolf-teams targeting the same person or something...?Or is Nogrod playing the "I'm heated, therefore I'm innocent" -game once again? :p ;)

But yes, please Nogrod share your thoughts. I'd love to hear new suggestions and evidence. Because if this continues this way it's oing to be a boring game and in the worst case I'll have to eat my head. I really don't enjoy being this "sure" about things but I can't help it...


edit: xed with Sally

[Nogrod]

Or is Nogrod playing the "I'm heated, therefore I'm innocent" -game once again? :p ;)I'm quite relaxed indeed.

Somehow I'm not sure if I'll bother to make any defence to try and show my innocense. First of all it seems to be vain and secondly it looks like an impossible task as the "arguments" given this far are "I don't trust him", "I don't like the way he behaves" and such - like the retaliatory vote of Nerwen fex. What can I do with these?

[The Elf-warrior]

Sorry for my quietness, all. Here's my list in rough order of suspiciousness:

Green light:
Mith. There's the possibility that Lhuna dreamt of her innocence, and I just don't see her being a wolf.
Oddwen. Possible seer dream and 2nd DAY vote for Gwath pretty much clear her.

Sally. Her vote seems to clear her, and because she said Well....I think I'm voting for Gwath today. Not to be co-dependant, but I'm going to wait like one more minute and see how others are voting. Don't want to waste a vote on Gwath if it comes down to two other suspects being in close ranks lynchwise. But if Nogrod is a wolf, that would negate this evidence because she would have been choosing between two wolves. However, she was on Gwath's case earlier so unless Gwath was a sacrificial wolf, she is pretty much in the clear.
Legate. If I had to guess, I'd say he's innocent. I think that Lhuna's gut feeling was right, that Gwath was trying to suck up to Legate. See post #36.

Nogrod: My feeling is that Gwath come against Nogrod too hard for him to be a wolf. But Lommy's arguments make me not completely write off the possibility that Nogrod is a wolf.

Lommy. Her vote against Gwath seems to clear her and I didn't find her that suspicious.

I wouldn't focus on any of these right now. I'd focus on my last two.

Yellow light:
Kath. I haven't seen much suspicious behaviour, but Kath being a wolf would seem to fit in with Gwath's lycanthropy. That doesn't mean she's a wolf, though.

Red light:
Nerwen. That thing about the wolves killing Lhuna doesn't sit well with me. Her being a wolf would also fit in with Gwath.

++Nerwen

What you can do, Nogrod, is make a clear and convincing vote for a wolf. Just my two cents.

[Nogrod]

Well. I tried to look backwards anyhow.

But there is no single point made against me! It's all discussion stating whether we lynch Nogrod toDay or ToMorrow. How do you people expect someone to try and show what he is if you just go on saying let's lynch him?

I think I have points enough for voting Nerwen - some made yesterDay some toDay and her vote was really neat and easy for a wolf. But if you wish to let her slip through your hands like you were ready to let Gwath slip yesterDay (I was after him from the first Day on remember - well you don't because it doesn't fit your "lynch Nogrod"-mania) then please do so.

EDIT: X'd with EW

[Thinlómien]

Nogrod, I can understand you're frustrated. But sadly it doesn't mean you're innocent. You wanted reasonable reasons why you're a wolf. What about Gwath not voting you yesterDay, for starters?

And I'm sorry, I do have a couple of factual reasons to suspect you, and I've said them aloud, but mostly my suspicion of you is based on a gut-feeling or how you appear overall. I know it's annoying to be voted on such basis, but maybe you've just become such a good player that you don't make actual slips or mistakes or obvious trciks when you're a wolf that there is simply no other way of catching you than gut-feelings.

What a speech. If you're innocent, feel free to laugh at me. :D


edit: xed with Nog

[Nogrod]

[/B]What you can do, Nogrod, is make a clear and convincing vote for a wolf. Just my two cents.I did one already yesterDay but that seems not to be enough... :rolleyes:

[satansaloser2005]

I looked back at the voting, and noticed something.

Gwath had the opportunity to seal Noggie's fate, but failed to do so. Now, of course, he had no way of knowing that he would tie with our Finnish friend, but that's not the point. This does look very odd....
But....in the last game, Gwath-wolf reacted the same and voted Rune instead of the other votee, which sealed his fate. In this case, the person he could have voted for was an innocent, so there was no risk to the pack.

I'm going to post this so I can catch up. How do the rest of you feel about this?

[Nogrod]

What about Gwath not voting you yesterDay, for starters?How do you expect me to know the motives of Gwath's votes? You really have pretty tough requirements if that is what one needs to do not to get lynched... :)

[Thinlómien]

Votes

Oddwen -> Nogrod
Legate -> Kath
Nerwen -> Nogrod 2
Elf-Warrior -> Nerwen

I don't see why you see your situation as doomed, Nogrod. Wolvish over-reacting? I was just wondering if I dare to vote you or see if you get enough votes and prevent someone innocent-seeming from getting lynched.


edit: xed with Nog and Sally

[Nogrod]

I don't see why you see your situation as doomed, Nogrod. Wolvish over-reacting?I'm just not waiting for miracles... if you look at the stated voting intentions toDay you can make a count...

[Thinlómien]

:rolleyes: and :D at Nogrod. I did not mean you should be able to explain it, just that it is one of the reasons why I suspect you. If you're not lynched toDay and I'm not killed next Night (or vice versa :p), I'll make you a proper list of the few factual reasons why you're guilty, but now time is running out...


edit: xed with Nogrod

[Nogrod]

Although Elf Warrior's sense lit a small light to be sure...

[The Elf-warrior]

I'm sorry, Nogrod, I saw, but I didn't observe. Looking at Nogrod's DAY 2 vote again, about the only way I can see Nogrod being a wolf is if Gwath was a sacrificial wolf, so you're probably innocent. *casts a sideways glance at Lommy* Hear the man out. Vote Nerwen.

[Mithalwen]

++ Sally (Satansaloser)

Late but loud alarm bell ringing and I am beginning to find Noggin in Eeyore/Marvin mode amusing..... :p

[Thinlómien]

Poor Noggie. I'm sorry, whether you're a wolf or not...

++Nogrod

Don't take it personally. ;) You can laugh at me if I'm wrong. Then I deserve it. :)


edit: xed with everybody since Ng's post after mine
edit2: not after mine, the one that xed with mine

[satansaloser2005]

Or Kath. I still prefer Kath. But I'll go with consensus.



Can we give Noggie another day? Please? I'm going to be really unhappy if he dies today and he's proven innocent. Granted, he'll be proven innocent, but he'll be dead. I'd rather learn more about someone else....

[satansaloser2005]

++ Sally (Satansaloser)

Late but loud alarm bell ringing and I am beginning to find Noggin in Eeyore/Marvin mode amusing..... :p



Wow. That was unexpected. I'm flattered! :)

[Nogrod]

Okay it needs to be someone with one vote already.

I suggest Nerwen as the best bet.

[Thinlómien]

Can we give Noggie another day? Please? I'm going to be really unhappy if he dies today and he's proven innocent. Granted, he'll be proven innocent, but he'll be dead. I'd rather learn more about someone else....It seems it's too late...? If it helps, you can kick and hit me if he's innocent. :D


edit: xed with sal and nog

[satansaloser2005]

Okay. I prefer Kath by only a small margin, so....


++Nerwen

....it is. Best of luck to all no matter the outcome.

[Thinlómien]

Sally! Don't trust Nogrod!

edit: xed with sally