Tol-in-Gaurhoth L: Battle of the Fandoms

[Durelin]

Tomorrow would be the first day of Omnicon. In twenty-four hours, the Barrow-Downs Convention Center would be filled with robed witches and wizards, steampunkers with spiky blue hair and goggles, ninjas, wielders of foam swords and Nerf guns, gamers with carpal-tunnel syndrome, and Ring-bearers. The Barrow-Wight watched the preparations with distaste. The amount of off-topic shenanigans that would ensue… With squirrel recruitment down by 30% just in the past two years, there was no way he could keep this abomination fully Tolkien related. If only he had thought of Oxonmoot…and lived anywhere near Oxford…

Once this thing got going, he would not be setting foot out of his Barrow for a month at least.

Special guests were being seen to and schedules finalized. Andy Serkis was scheduled to perform several times, though no one was sure what. Sean Bean would perhaps sign autographs. Emma Watson was to stop by and answer a few questions, Hermione style. Leonard Nimoy was late – presumably because William Shatner had arrived early. Mark Hamill had turned up uninvited.

The con-goers had been arriving in the area, as well, checking into their hotels or settling into their cars for the night. Those who tried to set up tents outside (and inside) the convention center were chased away, or rather sent away with the name of the hotel where...well, where whomever the nuisances happened to “<3” (as displayed on their t-shirts) was supposedly staying.

The preparations went long into the night. While most con-goers dreamt of their fictional or celebrity lovers, three figures plotted in the darkness. This would be easy-pickings. As far as they knew, only a handful of vampire-hunters might be attending…

Night 1 has begun!

The werewolves may PM each other to plot. Seer, send me your dream.

Sweet dreams!

[Durelin]

A trail of blood ran several yards from one of the front doors of the convention center, leading to a body. The scene was taped off, the body bag was brought in, though Omnicon-goers were already beginning to flood the building. There were screams, cries of horror and shock as police were forced to hold a few people back from throwing themselves onto the corpse to weep for the beloved dead.

Several policemen were busy, elsewhere, as they approached the signing tables, where Wiliiam Shatner was signing autographs. He had been scheduled to speak, welcoming everyone to the convention, immediately after Leonard Nimoy. But there were some changes in the schedule.

“Mr. Shatner,” one of the officers began, and was interrupted by a quiet addition of “Captain” from one of his fellows. “You’re coming with us,” he continued, in style. “Now stand up slowly. No fancy moves.”

“But…why?”

“Ask Mr. Nimoy. Now let’s go.” The policemen pulled the Star Trek Captain out of his chair, ignoring the yelling and flailing of fans who had been lining up for autographs.

The officers took him out by the front doors, not at all concerned with the scene they were causing. Or rather, concerned that they were indeed seen leading a hand-cuffed William Shatner out to a squad car. And so they led him right by the body.

“Leonard?” Shatner gasped. (For his expression of shock, see here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTqrFrEwee8).)

Feanor of the Peredhil looked on, her face pale. These emotions of grief and pain were illogical, and though she would certainly shed tears later, for now she simply acted. “No, James, don’t let them take you! You know you’re innocent! I know you are! It wasn’t you, it was Werewolves!”

The convention center was silenced as the final word echoed through the minds of all present.

“What?” Shatner asked, his final word as the door closed behind him and his uniformed escorts.

“Besides,” Feanor began to no one in particular, “this is Mirror Spock.” She was deep in thought as she peered at his goateed chin.

Tribbles continued to devour the remains as crime scene photos were taken and experts pondered how they should remove the cute, fuzzy little animals.

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-


~The Dead~

Leonard Nimoy (Half-Vulcan) ~ illogically murdered by the wolves


~The Living~

Rikae - Stalker of the preciousss Andy Serkis
Nerwen - Jedi Master, specializing in memorabilia collecting and movie quoting
Feanor of the Peredhil - Rabid Cosmo fan and TOS-TNG Trekkie with opinions
Boromir88 - Fireworks Pyro and Sean Bean's #1 fan
Nilpaurion Felagund - Noldo with a zanpakutou named Telpelin and the Mangekyou Sharingan
Nogrod - "Spore" anticipator who wants to play Eru
Gwathagor - Academian lost among lunatics and pop culture
satansaloser2005 - "Doctor Who" Luuuver
McCaber - Old School RPer
Shastanis Althreduin - Rabid Hermione Fan-wizard
Brinniel - 'Reality' TV Fan
Mithalwen - Confused hardcore Tolkienista who thought she was going to Oxonmoot
Isabellkya - Rabid fan of Vampire Princess Miyu
Lalwendë - "In The Night Garden" Fan-mother
Kath - Pro-Harry/Hermione Fan-witch
CaptainofDespair - Cluny the Scourge cosplayer out to make the con "Cluny's Con"
Macalaure - "Civilization" fan with Machiavellian tendencies


Day 1 has begun.
Talk! (Wolves, no more PMing.)


Computer, compute to the last digit the value of pi.

[Boromir88]

In honor of the great Leonard Nimoy's death, I will put on the grandest fireworks display this world has ever seen, tonight. A re-enactment of the U.S.S. Enterprise vs. the Borg space-invaders.

[Lalwendë]

Iggle piggle, iggle onk, it's time to catch the ninky nonk!

:cool:

[Mithalwen]

*Mithalwen enters holding a small teddy dressed as Frodo the Ring Bear-er*
James, I've a feeling we're not in Oxford anymore. Where are the people in cloaks, the foot ....err wigs, over earnest guitar playing and endless dreadful poetry?

[Macalaure]

What? Sid Meier's not at the convention? Bummer.

Alright, here's the deal, wolves: you can kill, mangle, dispatch, defile, devour one of us at night if you like. I don't mind. That's all fair game and fine with me.

But if you go and send your warriors and archers against my newfound cities, I promise... I will kill you! :mad:

:D

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Zomg, I wasn't thinking clearly! Is it too late to make myself into a Twilight fangirl? Just think of the werewolf puns...

[Boromir88]

Zomg, I wasn't thinking clearly! Is it too late to make myself into a Twilight fangirl? Just think of the werewolf puns...~Fea
Why? So you can have a secret language between you and your werewolf friends during the day?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Why? So you can have a secret language between you and your werewolf friends during the day?

Hey, that's not at all fair! Even though Bella had a thing for Jacob for awhile, we all know she ended up with Edward. Which obviously makes me perfectly ordinary.

[Mithalwen]

Leonard Nimoy? Didn't he edit Mallorn? I don't think any of this is in the published works...

*wibble*

[Lalwendë]

I just can't wait to hear the paper on how Makka Pakka's house is clearly Skara Brae and he is a megalith builder. Then I want to go for a ride on the replica Pinky Ponk and try to spot the teeny tiny Pontypines.

:cool:

[CaptainofDespair]

*plots...*

With such leading personas out of the way, the con-goers will have no choice but to accept Cluny the Scourge as the ruler of the Con! Yes, I can see it now...

And I wish my sea-rat minions would be more like these wolves...taking some initiative once in awhile...*sigh* Unfortunately, they are a threat and must go. I see no way of intimidating such creatures into submission with a little show of force. I will have no one interfer with Cluny's Con!

[Nogrod]

That's what I've always thought about the so called reality... it's ugly and full of unexpected consequencies. One can't preview what happens in it and fix the unawaited - or to save the game in a position before the unwanted occurences to reload it. And this God-chap seems to make all these infantile decisions of taking all the fun out of fighting the bad guys with giving them abilities to sneak around when no one notices, just for his own fun.

Okay, I'm going to the cell-phase and will start up a new monocellular lifeform that will result in a werewolf-killer creature that will evolve into a menace the sneaky baddies will tremble in front of. Just wait for the moment they get into the space! They will use their anti-matter guns and plasma-destroyers to teach those weirdos a lesson.

And if you will co-operate, I'd like a gene-sample from all of you so that I could run a PEA (parallel-emergence-analysis) to ascertain your evolutionary path and look for the DFG (deviation-from-gentleness) value and the SP's (sneak-profiles) of you all.


And btw. Are the rules I read from this Con's Admin. page post #1 The Rules or are there any changes / additions? To create these "Werewolf's Banes" I'd need to know the rules in detail to countereffect any malice structured into the "reality" here...

[Boromir88]

Okay, I'm going to the cell-phase and will start up a new monocellular lifeform that will result in a werewolf-killer creature that will evolve into a menace the sneaky baddies will tremble in front of.~Nogrod
What if you're a renegade wolf who creates this werewolf warrior for us, and after dispatching your two partners, you use it to turn on us. We are then powerless to stop it, thus insuring you (a werewolf) victory.

This I decree...

Nogrod is a werewolf
Fea is not
Go Blades!

[Durelin]

And btw. Are the rules I read from this Con's Admin. page post #1 The Rules or are there any changes / additions?

The only addition I can think of at the moment is NO Twilight! :p

At the moment...

Mwaha.

Also I guess I will mod-fire people eventually. After no-posting 2 days in a row? We'll say that.

(I'm not actually dead this time, so I can do this!)

[Mithalwen]

Bit of a worrying sign. Nogrod is the person who is speaking vaguely comprehensibly and he wants to tamper with my genes. You can leave my DNA alone matey unless you want me to deviate from gentleness PDQ.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

The only addition I can think of at the moment is NO Twilight!

What about Breaking Dawn, can I do Breaking Dawn? I'll name myself Rosemmett and my middle name can be Baseball!

[Nogrod]

You can leave my DNA alone matey unless you want me to deviate from gentleness PDQ.I'll read your DNA (Deoxyribonucleic acid) from your words then, with my GrBF (Gene-reading-Babel-Fish). :cool:

[Rikae]

Yay! I'm an ordo, I've got nothing to lose! :D

(Would she say that if she wasn't? :Merisu:)


Yep, right. Anyway, His Precioussssness was not killed, so I can't really bring myself to care - what was that guy's name? Leroy? Well, let's get down to business.

I think that the odds are quite good there is a wolfish influence behind the fact that we've gotten four hours into the day with nothing but in-character posting (either that, or just the sheer fun of the theme - but that doesn't let me throw accusations around).

Fea and Boro, I'm looking at you.

[Mithalwen]

Don't worry Rikae - I have to go any minute -then they will talk and give me about 7 pages to digest with lunch..... :rolleyes:

[Mithalwen]

Well I am going to escape this mayhem and find a quiet corner to curl up and sleep, perchance ot dream of Murray Smith reading ...more or less anything..... ;)

[Nogrod]

I'm getting interesting readings of the tribal-phase of the evolution...

It is about 4½ hours from the devious act of butchery.

There has been 16 acts of speaking by 7 persons out of 17.

All the speech-acts have been more or less banterish / introverted / in-character.

The only deviations from the rule - even if they could be counted in the class of banter as well are...

Boro throwing a light one on Fea.

Boro throwing a light one on me + saying Fea is innocent.

Mith saying my posting is a worrying sign.


Those who have not deviated from the IC-talk are: Lalwendë, Macalaure, Fea, CoD

* I'm counting this post of mine into the category with Boro & Mith eg. not only IC.*


Yes. It's early and all the rest. Nothing to say at this moment. Sure. But as I need to go to bed and I'm having a terribly busy day tomorrow I'll try to say at least something.

Boro's sudden and quick change of mind with Fea is interesting. There seems to be no reason for it. If he was trying something (as an innocent) he would have let time pass and get some feedback but now he turned his tail after one banterish reply. I mean people do have fun and they should. But there are always things behind your rants and turn-arounds.

Which makes it interesting he should turn to me for the in-character accusation of wolvery in the very same post. Now why? To make me stop playing IC? Well, if it was that you succeeded it seems (although the time of the night here and my busy tomorrow have a part to play in this as well). But was it that?

Mith's happiness to throw suspicion to me is something I could have foreseen in any case, but making it conveniently just after Boro had called my name, looks interesting as well. Not impossibly ordo-Mith-like but not too reassuring either.


But then again. It would be nice and fine to just stay in-character so long as others do if one was a wolf. So I'm not thinking those who had only played IC are any less suspicious at the moment.

We shall see as the hours pass.


EDIT: X'd from Rikae onwards

[Lalwendë]

I'm just hoping these wolves keep their claws off the Tombliboos. :(


Go Blades!

Pssst...

If you're going to be a rabid Bean fan to the point that you become a Blade then you're gonna have to learn the words to The Greasy Chip Buttie Song (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greasy_Chip_Butty_Song) or you'll never pull it off ;)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Alohomora!

Doors unlock, and Shasta sweeps in with billowing black robes.

That's one of Hermione's signature spells, you know.

[Boromir88]

If you're going to be a rabid Bean fan~Lal
Rabid? I'm sorry, rabid describes the fake loonies who take SB's hair clippings and perform some type of devilry ritual. That's not my business. I'm authentic, I'm the real deal.

[Boromir88]

Oh and so far I think the most interesting thing to happen is Rikae's declaration of ordinariness. What do you think about that Nogrod?

[Brinniel]

Hi everyone, I'm here for my audition!

*starts to sing an Alicia Keys song loudly and off-key*

Wait a minute...you mean this isn't American Idol? Oh crap...

Omnicon? Well I guess that explains all the nerds dressed up in absurd costumes. But really, I can't understand half of what you guys are saying with all this science-fiction/fantasy mumbo jumbo. You all need to snap out of your own little worlds and come back down to reality...like me. Seriously. :rolleyes:

Anyways, I don't have much to say now...but I'll be back later after I watch a few episodes of Extreme Makeover: Home Edition. Btw, does anyone know if Ty's around here? Can you believe I still don't have his autograph? :eek:

[Gwathagor]

Man! If I was one of those cops, I would have used Dr. McCoy's classic line: "He's dead, Jim." How many times do you get the chance to say that? TO WILLIAM SHATNER?

Ok. I'm going to read the thread now.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Obviously it's not like it's the first time Spock's died. So who do you think he'll borrow the body of?

I presume you all know my feelings on Day Ones:

I hate day one and think it's useless.

And will therefore vote before work tomorrow afternoon, based entirely on whim (or possibly dice rolling) unless somebody besides me says "I'm a wolf."

[Rikae]

Those little icons at the bottom are arranged so evenly and neatly, and then they forgot the last three - if they had only thought ahead, and not run willy-nilly into the wilderness to encounter the Pig-Goddess "keine", who weareth lipstick, from whom all life springeth.

Let he who reads this be a wolf!

In fact, I am sure that a wolf reading this will understand, and I should say no more, but let the black soot on everyone else's hands tell the tale. Ah, but this tale is written in green on black, and therefore, I must be the wolf! :eek:

[Gwathagor]

Boro: His manner of careless and easy accusation stands out. He could be a wolf trying to appear casual and flippant, like an ordo confident of his own innocence. Or, it could be genuine; maybe he's just taking advantage of the relative inactivity of the first few hours of the game to have some fun? I can't decide yet.


Rikae: Has, in a tone of irony, proclaimed herself innocent. And I quote:

"Yay! I'm an ordo, I've got nothing to lose! (Would she say that if she wasn't?)"

1. I've got nothing to lose. This is not true. An ordo has plenty to lose.
2. Would she say that if she wasn't? I imagine it's been done before.

As far as I can tell, her purpose is to create just enough uncertainty regarding her innocence/guilt to keep us from lynching her. At one point I would have pointed out that such a bold statement would be unlikely to come from a wolf, because it draws attention and attention is dangerous. My mistake was that I assumed that all wolves play the same way I do: low key. So, the question is, what kind of wolf does Rikae play as: bold, or boring?

EDIT: Crossed with Rikae and Fea.

[Gwathagor]

I presume you all know my feelings on Day Ones:

I hate day one and think it's useless.



I agree with you whole-heartedly on this point.


Those little icons at the bottom are arranged so evenly and neatly, and then they forgot the last three - if they had only thought ahead, and not run willy-nilly into the wilderness to encounter the Pig-Goddess "keine", who weareth lipstick, from whom all life springeth.

Let he who reads this be a wolf!

In fact, I am sure that a wolf reading this will understand, and I should say no more, but let the black soot on everyone else's hands tell the tale. Ah, but this tale is written in green on black, and therefore, I must be the wolf! :eek:

Is Rikae playing...IC or something? Because this post doesn't make any sense to me. (Of course, it might be just be my limitations as an ivory-tower academic...:rolleyes:)

[satansaloser2005]

BAD WOLF BAD WOLF BAD WOLF BAD WOLF

*whacks computer, busts out her replica of the sonic screwdriver*


Sorry about that. Bit of a problem with Hunter (my computer) and his translation circuits. (Yeah, I know, the bad wolf jokes are going to get old fast, but hey!)



Just popping by to say hello and....they killed Leonard Nimoy!!?!??!?!?!?!?!!

That's just....just....*backs away*....awesome! :p


(Alternatively, good Day/evening everyone, hope you're enjoying the game so far, I'll be back again later, DoctorDonnaFriends, etc.)

[Boromir88]

Rikae...boring? haha. I recall one of her wolf stints in a village long ago. She convinced us all to lynch someone else, and tried to go down in wolf lore forever, by killing me, realizing she was as good as dead the next day. Although she failed miserably at killing me (thank you Ang ;) ), and thus didn't achieve a glorious death, I commend her for knowing she was check mated and tried to carve as much destruction as possible before she was killed. Oh where was I...I believe if you look up antonyms for "boring" in the thesaurus, you would find Rikae. Some wolves (such as Nogrod) just don't know when they're beat.

I now fully intend to hijack this discussion, if there was something worth hijacking.

Edit: x'ed with Sally

[satansaloser2005]

And will therefore vote before work tomorrow afternoon, based entirely on whim (or possibly dice rolling) unless somebody besides me says "I'm a wolf."



Anyone besides me find that interesting? I'm just saying....

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Anyone besides me find that interesting? I'm just saying....

It's Day One. They're downright awful.

I thought I was being generous, tossing out a toy for you all to chew on.

[Rikae]

Well, unfortunately, I have to work tomorrow and so must vote now. I was hoping my little "test" might stir up something interesting, but all it seems to have yielded is: Gwath looks rather innocent, Sally a little less so (more for her reaction to Fea than to me - that slightly exploitative behavior was the reaction I was looking for, at any rate), and Boro is a flatterer. Everyone knows one should never trust a flatterer.

If only Shasta had posted, I could vote along with his suspicions, as I have told myself again and again after previous games I should do. I've come to believe he has psychic powers.

As it stands, I really have nothing I feel particularly comfortable basing a vote on (but then, chances are I wouldn't by the end of the day, anyhow :rolleyes:). I suppose I will just vote for:

++Sally

However, bear in mind, she looks quite a bit like a typical day one lynch, and those are usually mistakes. I have nothing else to go with now, but I will be rather suspicious, toMorrow (if alive) of anyone who seems too eager to make a bandwagon out of this without justification. Nighty night, all!

[satansaloser2005]

It's Day One. They're downright awful.

I thought I was being generous, tossing out a toy for you all to chew on.



Heh. The last time I took a toy from someone it was a laser spanner and the guy tried to bribe me to get it back with a cup of tea and a trip to see Shakespeare. Literally, Shakespeare. I don't play with other people's toys. ;)

P.S. That post above (the one about Fea) should have had a ":P" with it. Just in case anyone's actually wondering. (Whoops....)



EDIT: x'd with Mistress Rikae....aw, c'mon now. ;)

[Gwathagor]

However, bear in mind, she looks quite a bit like a typical day one lynch, and those are usually mistakes. I have nothing else to go with now, but I will be rather suspicious, toMorrow (if alive) of anyone who seems too eager to make a bandwagon out of this without justification.

It's convenient how this post essentially exonerates Rikae for voting against Sally and condemns everyone else who does the same. I'm using hyperbole, of course, but just enough to make my point.

EDIT: Crossed with Sally

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Phooey, the one time someone decides to listen to me and she votes before me. :rolleyes:

Hmm, hmm, hmm. My idol scorns Divination as nothing but bunk, but... I confess I do have a crystal ball tucked away somewhere (no, my furry lycan friends, this is NOT a seer hint, so no killing this ordo, thanks)...

Ah, here we are. Give me a moment to clear my thoughts and collect the astral vibes (and if anyone asks, I'm crunching numbers Arithmancy-style! :P)

[Boromir88]

Rikae, you call it flattery, I would call it honesty.

I hate day one and think it's useless.~Fea
I agree with you whole-heartedly on this point.~Gwath
It's Day One. They're downright awful.~Fea

Alright everyone, let's get the Day 1 hatred out of our system. You have nothing but unfound speculations and baseless complaints against Day 1. Let's just get it all out now, forget the pity party, and move on to some other useless topic to argue over.

Fea would admit to wolvishness, but last time she tried that ploy it got her team team lynched in 3 days. And what's funny is she actually hasn't admitted to wolvishness...yet.

I wish there was some sort of empirical system based on the Laws of Science, then finding the wolves would be as easy as creating the loud boom in fireworks. Maybe then people would stop whining about how Day 1's are so unbearable.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

'No one starts on the top of the world.

Not you, not me, not even the gods.

But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over.

From now on, I will be sitting on it.'

[Nerwen]

I sense a great disturbance in the Force... as if a major player in That Other Fandom had suddenly met with a tragic, untimely end.:cool:

(And you'd better not try lynching me for that. I have a lightsaber.)

Now, which of us do I suspect of having started down the dark path, which will forever dominate their destiny?

Those whose mindless babble clouds our judgement? (Standouts: Rikae, Lalwendë.)

Those who appear paranoid? (I sense much fear in Nogrod...)

Those who attack others? Anger, fear, aggression. The Dark Side of the Force are they. (Standouts: Boro, Rikae again.)


So, the question is, what kind of wolf does Rikae play as: bold, or boring?

Now, Gwath, a Padawan learner you are not. Seen an evil Rikae before, you have...

...Which makes me wonder why you're even bothering to ask this question.

This is a good point, however:

It's convenient how this post essentially exonerates Rikae for voting against Sally and condemns everyone else who does the same. I'm using hyperbole, of course, but just enough to make my point.

EDIT: X'd with Boro and Nilp.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

God of rain's mind not working.

Maybe later, I'll actually post something more useful.

Meh.

[Gwathagor]

Now, Gwath, a Padawan learner you are not. Seen an evil Rikae before, you have...

...Which makes me wonder why you're even bothering to ask this question.


I was thinking out loud - or, rather, on-screen.

[Brinniel]

Hmmmm....looking through the Day it seems Rikae's been getting plenty of attention and might be a possible lynch candidate. And as far as Day 1's go, that probably means she is innocent...

After last game, I can't help but get that frustrated ordo feeling...whoever I suspect seems to turn out innocent. So perhaps this time I should just vote for people I don't really suspect. :rolleyes:

Okay, it's late and my brain is still adjusting to the whole school mode (I just started on Tuesday), so I admit I'm having a little trouble transitioning back into a WW mindset....or maybe it's just Day 1 syndrome. Due to classes, I'm going to have to vote 3-4 hours early. I have no idea who to vote for...we'll see what happens in the next several hours; I might just have to vote completely random. Anyways, apologies that I won't be around much toDay...but I will have plenty of time to devote to WW come this weekend. That is...if the werewolves don't get me first (and apparently they find me quite tasty :Merisu: ).

Night all, I'll be back to post/vote in 7 or 8 hours. And if anyone needs me, I'll be sleeping on the Big Brother set. :cool:

[Isabellkya]

*a flute playing, can be heard*


I think you would say you were an ordo, if you weren't Rikae.
So, if Shasta had voted for you Rikae, you would vote for yourself? xD

I can't help it, but every time I see Omnicon - I think of Necronomicon.. ex-mortis!

I think Fea is just trying to bait a reaction out of someone; nothing was admitted.



*music fades*

[Shastanis Althreduin]

So...

I asked my crystal ball - some guy said it was a cheap Magic 8-ball, can you believe that? I zapped him with a Jelly-Legs Jinx, just like Hermione would - and it says to look in my past.

My past, huh?

++Boromir88

[Boromir88]

Shasta, so you fully intend to let our thrilling history effect your vote, eh? Let me ask, are you using the past as a cover?

[Macalaure]

So....

I have to admit that the only thing I found worth remarking so far is Brinniel dedicating half of her last post to making excuses why she won't catch a wolf today:
After last game, I can't help but get that frustrated ordo feeling...whoever I suspect seems to turn out innocent. So perhaps this time I should just vote for people I don't really suspect. :rolleyes:
I have no idea who to vote for...we'll see what happens in the next several hours; I might just have to vote completely random.Why would one say such a thing 7-8 hours before the actual vote?

Hmmmm....looking through the Day it seems Rikae's been getting plenty of attention and might be a possible lynch candidate. And as far as Day 1's go, that probably means she is innocent...She's also establishing the idea of Rikae as a possible lynch candidate while simultaneously distancing herself from it.


Other than that, I don't know. Gwath's points seem a little forced maybe, but everyone else's behavior looks neither very suspicious nor innocent to me. But the day is still young.

So, if Shasta had voted for you Rikae, you would vote for yourself? xDShe would have. Without a blink of hesitation. ;)

[Rikae]

Popping in before work. I don't have much to observe, except that Gwath points out the obvious. Yes, my post does " exonerate me for voting against Sally and condemn everyone else who does the same". So?

I've had a bad feeling about Boro, and Shasta seems to as well (unless this is just a traditional sort of thing) - I'll keep watching him. He's too clever to obviously slip up, though, so hunches may be what it takes to catch a Boro-wolf.

Mac's observation about Brinniel is something I noted as well (regarding calling me a possible lynch candidate), however, the more I think about it, the more straightforward and innocent it looks. Nerwen might be worth looking at more closely, though. She's too experienced , I would think, to suspect someone for making a nonsense post as a test/way of stirring the pot.

Oh yes, and so far Macalaure looks innocent to me, if it matters to anyone. I may revise that opinion later.

[Rikae]

Just to add, I don't consider Gwath's stating the obvious to be wolfish. I've seen an innocent Gwath do similar things before.

(By the way, this is an awfully quiet village! The reason I didn't vote this morning was I thought I wouldn't possibly have time to catch up, but there were only a handful of posts... :rolleyes:)

[Lalwendë]

Well I enjoyed a lie-in this morning, and since then I've been attending to Iggle Piggle ;)

However, let's get the show on the road!

Initial Impressions-
Those who are innocent to me seem to be Rikae, Nerwen, Shasta. However right now, Brinniel, Boro and Fea seem fishy. The rest are flying under the radar which in itself is wolfy. I am running off my spidey sense right now so let's see what lunchtime brings...

Meanwhile, Makka Pakka is waiting for me to go and help wash some stones.

[Macalaure]

Awfully quiet today.

Oh yes, and so far Macalaure looks innocent to me, if it matters to anyone.Yay! :)

I may revise that opinion later.Naah! :p


Would somebody explain to me what's so suspicious about Boro? I don't see it.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Fea would admit to wolvishness, but last time she tried that ploy it got her team team lynched in 3 days. And what's funny is she actually hasn't admitted to wolvishness...yet.

When did I do that? I really don't even remember any more... In any case, in my experience there are two ways to play as a wolf: against a village of individuals or against a presumed Village. With individuals, you make your wolf choices based on what will cast light in certain directions, and what will exonerate you based on what people know. Against a Village, you make decisions based on hypotheticals which have nothing to do with actual members of the village, just with what ought to happen, in an experimental manner, if Wolf A performs Action B against Villager C. I tend to believe that on the first few days, most wolves play against a Village. Because they haven't yet had time to scope out who their most dangerous enemy will be, and why make themselves suspects by doing things that can actually be traced?

And really, Boro, do you think I'm going to admit I'm a wolf this early in the game, even if I am one?

I wish there was some sort of empirical system based on the Laws of Science, then finding the wolves would be as easy as creating the loud boom in fireworks. Maybe then people would stop whining about how Day 1's are so unbearable.

Yeah, well, there isn't. So put up with my whining just a bit longer.

[Mithalwen]

OK Nogrod, I didn't cast suspicion on you then - I merely didn't want you tampering with my genes - NOT the same thing. People misrepresenting me always raises my alarm bells so I am NOW suspicious of you.

:rolleyes:

As for Boromir .... I am not sure yet - but I know there have been plenty of times when innocent Boromir has stirred up day ones and got himself lynched for his trouble and there is enough History between him and Fea for that not to be an issue in itself (I moderated the Boro-seer game ). However I know they are both capable of being sneaky confident wolves. I am going to hang fire on both til I have heard more.

More inclined to suspect the quiet at the moment .

[Boromir88]

When did I do that? I really don't even remember any more...~Fea
Mith's game with only the seer, dear.

And really, Boro, do you think I'm going to admit I'm a wolf this early in the game, even if I am one?
Yes. Whether you admit it, or not, the question is are you one? No.

OK Nogrod, I didn't cast suspicion on you then - I merely didn't want you tampering with my genes - NOT the same thing. People misrepresenting me always raises my alarm bells so I am NOW suspicious of you.~Mith
But you could be a wolf hiding behind the role playing to look like your contributing. But I've personally experienced the inner working of your mind as a wolf, my dear, and I know you do not hide behind a role, as you know it's a nice wolf ploy on day 1, nice one...but noticeable one. Thus, you are no wolf.

Sorry Mac I think your interpretation against Brin is horribly wrong. Although I've learned through the years that you simply can't be against something, you have to be for something. So, here's what I'm for...Mac, buddy, you are a wolf sticking your paws into the village early.

[Mithalwen]

But you could be a wolf hiding behind the role playing to look like your contributing. But I've personally experienced the inner working of your mind as a wolf, my dear, and I know you do not hide behind a role, as you know it's a nice wolf ploy on day 1, nice one...but noticeable one. Thus, you are no wolf.


While I know you have been unfortunate enough to be exposed to the weird vagaries of my psychology more than most, I am not yet discounting the possibility that you know I am not a wolf because I am not in your pack... however if you were a wolf exploiting privileged knowledge of my mindset you would know how I feel about certainty as a wolvish trait.... :p

[Mithalwen]

Well I have work to do ... should be back ina couple of hours until the end... I hope things may be clearer then.

[Boromir88]

however if you were a wolf exploiting privileged knowledge of my mindset you would know how I feel about certainty as a wolvish trait.... ~Mith
And you know that I had to keep reminding myself not to be so certain. :cool:

I kind of like this game of I know what you know, and you know that I know what you know.

[Lalwendë]

Post-Dinner time take:

Rikae - No
Nerwen - No
Feanor of the Peredhil - Possibly
Boromir88 - No
Nilpaurion Felagund - Possibly
Nogrod - No
Gwathagor - Possibly
satansaloser2005 - Possibly
McCaber - No idea
Shastanis Althreduin - No
Brinniel - Possibly
Mithalwen - No idea
Isabellkya - Possibly
Lalwendë - No
Kath - No idea
CaptainofDespair - No idea
Macalaure - No

I'll wait and see before casting me vote :smokin:

[Brinniel]

Oh yes, I almost forgot...I have a tendency to get lynched on the rare Days I'm not there to defend myself. :rolleyes: :p

Seriously, I wish I had more time to think things out but I overslept so I have even less time than I expected. I can't be late to my first class, so I need to vote now. I promise if I'm still around, I'll actually be able to analyse and participate come toMorrow.

So, my vote:

*writes down her vote and shows it to the crowd Survivor-style*

++Mac

Call it a backlash vote or whatever, but I can't help but feel uncomfortable about someone when they make a case against me based on a few short statements I made...especially when he knows I won't be around later to defend myself. I don't know if there'll be any accuracy in my vote, but I'm out of time and he's the first name that came up.

Sorry mate. And again, apologies that I can't be around for deadline. I hate when that happens.

[Boromir88]

Would somebody explain to me what's so suspicious about Boro? I don't see it.~Mac
Thank you sir for bringing that to my attention. What's funny is I'm kind of in this zone and I really didn't notice this until I took a look for myself. Doesn't mean you aren't a wolf, but I applaud you for bringing this to my attention. Let's see...

Boro's sudden and quick change of mind with Fea is interesting. There seems to be no reason for it. If he was trying something (as an innocent) he would have let time pass and get some feedback but now he turned his tail after one banterish reply. I mean people do have fun and they should. But there are always things behind your rants and turn-arounds.~Nogrod

Boro: His manner of careless and easy accusation stands out. He could be a wolf trying to appear casual and flippant, like an ordo confident of his own innocence. Or, it could be genuine; maybe he's just taking advantage of the relative inactivity of the first few hours of the game to have some fun? I can't decide yet.~Gwath

and Boro is a flatterer. Everyone knows one should never trust a flatterer.~Rikae

Those who attack others? Anger, fear, aggression. The Dark Side of the Force are they. (Standouts: Boro, Rikae again.)~Nerwen

++Boromir88~Shasta

I've had a bad feeling about Boro, and Shasta seems to as well (unless this is just a traditional sort of thing) - I'll keep watching him. He's too clever to obviously slip up, though, so hunches may be what it takes to catch a Boro-wolf.~Rikae again
(For some info, last time I did a awfully (yet wickedly evil) bluff and got Shasta, the real Ranger lynched. Shasta vowed revenge, but I'm wondering if he's hiding behind that cover now.)

However right now, Brinniel, Boro and Fea seem fishy.~Lalwende

That's 6 different people (either jokingly, or not) mentioning some sort of (mostly minor) uneasiness about me. There are 17 people (including me) in this village. That is now a mathematical probablility that one of those people above is a wolf.

Now watch carefully Fea, because you said there is no empirical system, well I'm about to figure one out, so hold on...

Edit: crossed with Brin

[Gwathagor]

I wish I could stick around and participate in the discussion, but I have to run off. I'll be back in time for the deadline, but I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not trying to be extra-quiet and slide under the radar. It's inadvertent.

[Gwathagor]

Oh, wait.

I just checked the DL again and I'm NOT going to be able to make it, which means I have to vote now.

++Rikae

She mentioned that my stating the obvious did not look guilty. Perhaps she's trying to flatter me into not suspecting her?

[Macalaure]

Mildly suspicious:

Brinn - I still think her comments were strange, but apparently I'm the only one. So, yeah... :rolleyes:
Fea - Her tone following Boro's comments is a bit too defensive for my liking. Not much, but enough to make her mildly suspicious.
Gwath - tense

No idea:

Boro - Stirs the pot, which is good. Usually a wolf wouldn't want to step on too many toes right from the beginning on, but since I'm on the receiving side of his suspicion, I'm a little wary.
CoD - *shrug*
Isabell - more *shrug*
Lal - Not sure, could be anything
Nerwen - Throws mild suspicion into each direction. I need to read more of her before I can form any opinion.
Nilp - even more *shrug*
Sally - no hunch whatsoever

Mildly innocent:

Mith - I usually can't get a read on Mith, so I'm careful. So far, however, she seems innocentish.
Nogrod - quite sensible, although he hasn't said much yet.
Rikae - no alarms
Shasta - no red flags


Call it a backlash vote or whatever, but I can't help but feel uncomfortable about someone when they make a case against me based on a few short statements I made...especially when he knows I won't be around later to defend myself.

A case? I just pointed out a few lines that I thought looked fishy, especially since they were the only lines of everybody that seemed fishy to me at the time. Knowing you wouldn't be around at the deadline is certainly no reason not to.

[CaptainofDespair]

Hmm...hmmm....

Day One, as was expected, has provided nothing.

I am disappointed in you, Day One. Shame on you for performing only up to expectations. I cannot have lazy good-fer-nothin's lazing about at the Grand Opening of Cluny's Con!

You are almost as bad as Cheesethief, except he died to keep me alive...

/end IC Talk...for now

Anywho, other than that nefarious Day One, I've got no real suspicions. I guess I could make an attempt at imagined ones.

Rikae and...umm...Mac...yess...they are suspicious to me. Or maybe...Boromir.

Bah...I do hope Day Two goes better. I've really got nothin'.

I really don't want to go out on a limb and vote to kill someone who, in all likelihood, will be innocent. I've toyed with the idea of voting for Day One, as it is pure evil and will keep a likely innocent in the game at least a night longer. But then again...we could get lucky.

I shall wait a little longer to vote...maybe I'll figure something out.

Edit: Well, I'm sticking to my guns. No random lynchings. I need something of substance.

++Day One

[Macalaure]

Oh, come on. Yes, half-random Day 1 votes aren't great, but not voting at all doesn't get us anywhere. :rolleyes:

Also, those half-random votes often bring some insights with them on Day 2, and you have just elegantly dodged that for yourself...

[satansaloser2005]

I really don't want to go out on a limb and vote to kill someone who, in all likelihood, will be innocent. I've toyed with the idea of voting for Day One, as it is pure evil and will keep a likely innocent in the game at least a night longer. But then again...we could get lucky.

I shall wait a little longer to vote...maybe I'll figure something out.

Edit: Well, I'm sticking to my guns. No random lynchings. I need something of substance.

++Day One


Seriously? No, really, you're bluffing right? This is one of those 'I'm going to let the Daleks think they can kill me but really my companion is bringing the TARDIS back in five minutes to save my behind' kind of things, right?


I just find this extremely....not good. (Late night, apologies. Off for a nap then I'll come back. And if I don't, as fair warning, it's because my computer's been acting up like none other.)

[Boromir88]

Brinn - I still think her comments were strange, but apparently I'm the only one. So, yeah...~Mac
I'll give you the wording of "lynch candidate," sounds like she's Rikae's executioner or something. But Brin has this "I really don't care what I say, and I don't care how people interpret what I say, so I'm just going to say what I want..." That is more consistent with an innocent, as someone with something to hide typically is a little more cautious.

A case? I just pointed out a few lines that I thought looked fishy, especially since they were the only lines of everybody that seemed fishy to me at the time. Knowing you wouldn't be around at the deadline is certainly no reason not to.
True, if you're innocent and got something to say, then say it, whether the person will be around for the deadline or not. However, whether you want to admit it or not, it was a case against Brin. A flimsy one, with some comments about a few lines (what does anyone expect from Day 1?), but it was a case nevertheless; just like the "cases" I will establish...right now.

Nogrod, get's .5 of a point for assuming I'd do something as an innocent, and that assumption is, well, wrong. And 1 point for his reaction to Mith saying his posting was a "worrying sign."
but making it conveniently just after Boro had called my name, looks interesting as well. Not impossibly ordo-Mith-like but not too reassuring either.
I looked Mith and my posts are 4 minutes apart. Now Mith's post is short, but I wouldn't throw out the possibility of a cross posting. (I don't always go back and edit to say who I crossed with). So, Mith, perhaps you would be kind to share...and be honest?

Nogrod: 1.5 points

Gwath, calm, reasonable, his thoughts are sound analysis. Certainly possible for a wolf, but that provides no reason to find him suspicious on Day 1. 0 Points.

Rikae, .5 point for joining the suspicions against me. .5 a point for telling Mac she noticed the same thing about Brin's remarks. -.5 for the sincerity here:
He's too clever to obviously slip up, though, so hunches may be what it takes to catch a Boro-wolf.
Now who's the flatterer? But seriously, you admit it's a hunch, I again commend you for that.

Rikae: .5 points

Nerwen, 1 point for hiding behind the character while saying who's suspicious.

Shasta, 1 point for hiding behind the vow of revenge. .5 point for what I see as a throw away vote. 1.5 points.

Lalwende, 1 point for posting and being present, yet not giving us any sort of depth as far as her thoughts. Seems like she's got an evil secret to hide. 1 point for being careful and staying out of any sort of confrontation. .5 for referring to me as fishy, then claiming:
Boromir88 - No

Lalwende: 2.5 points

Based on this study, which holds absolutely no biases -

Lalwende
Nogrod
Shasta

and based on no study, but a gut reaction -

Macalaure

[McCaber]

Checking in here. Sorry I'm late, I had to finish laying the smackdown on a pack of dragons.

Here's my take on all this so far:
Boro seems innocent to me. Like someone said, I don't think a wolf would cause this much controversy early in the match.

Brin seems a little off to me, as does the Captain. Gwath and Mac both look fine by me.

So that's about all I got right now. I'll be back with my vote.

EDIT: crossed with Boro

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Boro, you of all people should know what assumptions do. And you're making a great many of them. :Merisu:

It's a pity Phantom isn't playing. I think you'd be perfect for a new rival, though. :rolleyes:

[Boromir88]

Wow, I have been making a lot of assumptions, yet I don't see anyone refuting them; just a handful of people saying I'm fishy or troubling them.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

It's a pity Phantom isn't playing. I think you'd be perfect for a new rival, though. :rolleyes:

I was going to invite him, but I thought it was too late for him to join. I even started the bribing PM: "You know you want to play, right? Too late! I signed you up!"

Anyway...

Boromir, I'm watching you closely. Oh yes, very closely indeed.

[Nogrod]

Okay. I finally got home. I think I have a couple of things to say at last..

Btw. Boro, you should visit my Spore when it's ready. There the evolutionary mechanism will be trimmed with 100% causality with no errors eg. the mutations are preplanned and will execute themselves as supervised. That's intelligent design... Your empirical machine seems to be a bit rusty & random. :rolleyes:

[Boromir88]

Your empirical machine seems to be a bit rusty & random.~Nogrod
Rusty? no. Random? Yes. The scary thing is I'm actually considering trusting it for my Day 1 vote, but I still find it to be more accurate than a dice roll or a hat pull.

The newer version, Bada Bing Bada Boom 2.0, I will be done with shortly, where I plan to successfully eliminate any randomness.

Fea, stare all you like.

Edit: By the way Nogrod...how is spore? I've played the demo, it's terribly addicting.

[McCaber]

I have to go soon, so here's my semirandom vote:

++CaptainofDespair

for cryptic remarks and other general nonsense.

EDIT: crossed with Boro .. again

[Nogrod]

First. Boro asked me what I thought of Rikae's declaration of ordinariness. Well, I'm mainly interested in the motive behind that move. I mean making that kind of opening isn't exactly the most hilarious joke or the most ingenious or fresh move. So why would Rikae make it? Also it's hard to see it as a spontaneous reaction to anything (when one reacts spontaneously one may let that kind of banalities out from her keyboard) as she had known her role almost two days altready and she opened her first post with it.

Now I do sympathise with Rikae if she is an innocent indeed as I really felt relaxed and overwhelmingly happy when I heard I was innocent in the last game after a long period of special roles. But to say it aloud in your first post... So why?

I wouldn't like to lynch her for that but the declaration certainly raises eyebrows.


By the way Nogrod...how is spore?Never played it as my PC is too old to run it... but I am the Spore anticipator as you know... :)

[Lalwendë]

My vote is cast for

++ Brinniel

For the following:

Call it a backlash vote or whatever, but I can't help but feel uncomfortable about someone when they make a case against me based on a few short statements I made...especially when he knows I won't be around later to defend myself. I don't know if there'll be any accuracy in my vote, but I'm out of time and he's the first name that came up.

Alright, so she may be being honest, but there's honest and making too many apologies. And the best thing I have to go on during the first day is very basic psychology. Brinniel's behaviour best fits the bill for concealing a little too much.

[Nogrod]

Secondly this one from Gwath discussing Rikae caught my eye and the things he has been doing after it have raised my alarms a bit more. (underlining mine)At one point I would have pointed out that such a bold statement would be unlikely to come from a wolf, because it draws attention and attention is dangerous. My mistake was that I assumed that all wolves play the same way I do: low key. So, the question is, what kind of wolf does Rikae play as: bold, or boring?My first question was the following: are we now supposed to think that as Gwath now plays clearly actively (raising points about people) he is not a wolf as when wolf he (always?) plays low key? Interestingly enough his post began with suspecting Rikae somewhat just on the grounds of her trying to declare herself innocent - and now he does about the same thing himself in the very same post albeit indirectly! :)

But it gets more interesting.

Nerwen pointed out that Gwath knows about Rikae playing a wolf and wondered why Gwath bothered to ask about it? And Gwath answered:I was thinking out loud - or, rather, on-screen.Which I find quite a peculiar one as answers go. So his question that he made about Rikae after his own indirect "I'm innocent" is somewhat fishy then? It makes me wonder at least.

But the last one is the one I got worried about. I wish I could stick around and participate in the discussion, but I have to run off. I'll be back in time for the deadline, but I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not trying to be extra-quiet and slide under the radar. It's inadvertent.Now comparing this with the other underlining in the first quote really sends shivers down my spine. So when he's a wolf he's quiet and now he has to explain that as he has to go it doesn't mean that he is being flying under the radar... :eek:

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

++Boromir88

Because I have enough faith in his ability to figure out why, and because there's always a really great chance that I'm right.

[Isabellkya]

*a flute playing can be heard*

Boro, I could see Shasta revenge voting you. Since it is Day 1, there isn't much of a dire need to get an execution on a Shinma Wolf toDay. Sure, it would be nice, but I don't think it HAS TO HAPPEN. Though, it begs the question, did you two not play together in a game after the Ranger debacle?

I can sympathize with Brin, I don't think it necessarily means she is hiding something. But being accused (sometimes leading to a bandwagon) when you aren't there to defend yourself, is never nice.
Though, I can't see that Mac was doing it for the sole purpose that she wouldn't be here around deadline time.

*music fades*



X'd with Nogrod and Fea.

[Nogrod]

Btw. This Con is not only quiet in regard of the quantity of speech but also in quality. Too many I think have gotten through this Day with no effort at all just bantering or being IC. And to top it: the old "Day1 hater's club" has clearly been re-established from the grave where it should have stayed for ever after!

Anyway. I think the voting stands now at:

Rikae -> Sally
Shasta -> Boro
Brinn -> Mac
Gwath -> Rikae
McCaber -> CoD
Lalwendë -> Brinn

So six votes, six candidates... :confused:

EDIT: X'd with Isabell & Fea...

Corrected Vote-count:

Rikae -> Sally
Shasta -> Boro
Brinn -> Mac
Gwath -> Rikae
McCaber -> CoD
Lalwendë -> Brinn
Fëa -> Boro 2

[Mithalwen]

Nogrod, get's .5 of a point for assuming I'd do something as an innocent, and that assumption is, well, wrong. And 1 point for his reaction to Mith saying his posting was a "worrying sign."

I looked Mith and my posts are 4 minutes apart. Now Mith's post is short, but I wouldn't throw out the possibility of a cross posting. (I don't always go back and edit to say who I crossed with). So, Mith, perhaps you would be kind to share...and be honest?

Nogrod: 1.5 points

]


Yes. That was a cross post - I didn't flag it because I didn't think it was relevant. I appreciate that Nogrod is likely to be paranoid about me but that post was more about my opposition to GMO in my youth than the game. I know next to nothing about SciFi / Fantasy other than Tolkien but I do have a layman's interest in genetics.

[Boromir88]

Because I have enough faith in his ability to figure out why, and because there's always a really great chance that I'm right.~Fea
Because you're not satisfied until I'm dead, and even when the narrator reveals I'm innocent, you still think it was a conspiracy and I was evil all along?

[Mithalwen]

For what it's worth I think Boro may be having too much fun to be a wolf - I think he might be a bit more restrained. Be a shame to lose someone who is talking though.

He could be the cobbler though or simply being an agent provacateur. Fea is playing the Phantom. Need to have another through and see if there are no IC posts from Lal et alia

[Brinniel]

Just checking in to say I'm back...I know I made a big deal about how I wouldn't be here for deadline and I honestly thought I wouldn't. But my teacher let us out of class a whole whopping hour and a half early (it's a 4 hour class). :eek:

I figured being the first day I'd get out of class a little early, but was definitely not expecting that early. Maybe I should've taken the risk and not voted at all...but knowing how my luck goes, if I had done that I wouldn't have been back before deadline. :rolleyes:

Okay, I still need to go back and catch up on what I missed. Then I'll see if I can contribute anything before deadline.

[Kath]

Hey all, I am here. Could someone please let me know what the deadline is in, er, what am I in ... BST?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Hey all, I am here. Could someone please let me know what the deadline is in, er, what am I in ... BST?

In about a half hour.

[Mithalwen]

I think it is six.. so you had better get a wriggle on duckie ;)

[Mithalwen]

*a flute playing can be heard*

Boro, I could see Shasta revenge voting you. Since it is Day 1, there isn't much of a dire need to get an execution on a Shinma Wolf toDay. Sure, it would be nice, but I don't think it HAS TO HAPPEN. Though, it begs the question, did you two not play together in a game after the Ranger debacle?

.


No they didn't . And I do suspect a spite vote there. I know Shasta was done up like a kipper there but I thought he was bigger than that. So it could be a cover.... :confused:

[satansaloser2005]

My top four(ish) votees:
Boro: he just seems too together, I mean it's day one but he seems....blah, I should have had a longer nap. Alternatively, I know he's a slick little son of a Slitheen so if he worries me a little he worries me a lot, know what I mean?

Captain: I've played with a few Captains before, and it's always interesting. Harkness always wants to "meet new people" and that creepy woman from UNIT had an obsession with left-hand turns. This Captain? Votes, but doesn't. At the same time, though, I've never played with Captain before, so I'll just leave this alone, at least for toDay.

Brinn: Overapologizingish. Basically just covering my bases.

Rikae: Disregarding the fact that she voted me. "I'm voting (insert name here) but if people jump onto it they're probably wolves." Hmmmm....let's consider this shall we?


My first choice is probably Boro, with the other three close behindish and a few others that I didn't have time to mention. And I still didn't get my nap, dang it.

EDIT: x'd with Fea


EDIT #2: Sorry. That should be x'd SINCE Fea. Fea's vote, to be exact. Just so it's clear.

[Macalaure]

Just got back way later than expected and with 15 minutes left til deadline (we're going by real time, not Downs time, right?).

*off to read what has happened in the meantime*

[Lalwendë]

For what it's worth I think Boro may be having too much fun to be a wolf - I think he might be a bit more restrained. Be a shame to lose someone who is talking though.

He could be the cobbler though or simply being an agent provacateur. Fea is playing the Phantom. Need to have another through and see if there are no IC posts from Lal et alia

I don't think he's the wolf because he's all over the place and not really following any scent trails. So is Rikae. So is Nogrod.

I can't make you out this time, though that does lead me to think you might have a special role ;)

[Boromir88]

For what it's worth I think Boro may be having too much fun to be a wolf - I think he might be a bit more restrained. Be a shame to lose someone who is talking though.~Mith
This is normally the point where I would start suspecting you for buttering up to me, but I know if you truly were a wolf you would be 100% taking advantage of this oppurtunity to lynch me right now.

Edit: crossed with Lal...now would she defend me if she was a wolf, or seize the oppurtunity to lynch me now? hmm...

[Nogrod]

Mith: it is already clear that I read your post back there the wrong way as you suspecting me. So why are you coming back to it the second time?

And anyway. That was early in the Day with about twenty posts made in total (almost everyone of them being only joking & banter). I think both you Mith (explaining your post many times) and Boro (making that "empirical device" where you consider I'm one who suspects you) are making a mountain out of a molehill here. (Yes Mith, I didn't consider your posts as cross-posts and that was my carelessness not to look at the timestamps and think about the possibility. Yes.)

But your posts were the only ones there was anything even remotely looking like saying something that gets the game forwards at that point of the game. Now after people have contributed more there clearly are better points to be made - and it was obvious back then in the beginning of the Day. But your insistence on coming back to those early hour "suspicions" doesn't make me too happy about you two.

But I'm even more unhappy with those who just fly straight through the banter-radar or under any radar just not appearing or not contributing.

And I have a battle with myself about Gwath. He looks wolvish to me and I think I have plausible reasons and so I should trust my own judgement. But I've been wrong with him so many times... Unless there is a "submarine" we can agree on or any better cases to come forwards, or if I have to try and save someone I think is clearly less guilty than someone else, I'm considering of voting Gwath.

EDIT: X'd from Sally
EDIT2: ... oops... from Boro...

[Durelin]

Going by 'Downs time, so you have a bit more time.

[Mithalwen]

Mith: it is already clear that I read your post back there the wrong way as you suspecting me. So why are you coming back to it the second time?


EDIT: X'd from Sally
EDIT2: ... oops... from Boro...

Becasue I was answering a direct question, from Boromir with whom I am not in league. I was right about that paranoia.....

[Nogrod]

Going by 'Downs time, so you have a bit more time.About 15-16 minutes more I think...

[Macalaure]

I'll re-revise my opinion on Boro: I think he's innocent.

McCaber seems more or less fine.

Nogrod... a slight furry feeling about him now, but can't point to it. Then again, I always have a slight furry feeling about him, so maybe it's nothing. Certainly not enough to justify a vote. Interesting points on Gwath.

Sally seems more innocentish than before.


Going by 'Downs time, so you have a bit more time.

Ah, good. :)

[Boromir88]

Mith: it is already clear that I read your post back there the wrong way as you suspecting me. So why are you coming back to it the second time?~Nogrod
Because I asked her.

[Nogrod]

I was right about that paranoia.....Were you? How do you know? :D

Okay. Don't answer. We have more important things to do... :)

[Isabellkya]

I hadn't really noticed the difference between Downs time and my clock time before. xD

It could definately be a cover, since people have mentioned they should listen to Shasta more; could be a good opening for a Wolfie bandwagon to follow. But, I would like to say he wouldn't be that risky on Day one - but I was just evil with him on another forum and had to slap his hand from making rash decisions. xD
I am off now..so, I suppose this is a throw away vote at best..

++CoD



X'd since Lalwende's 94

[Kath]

Right, this will obviously have to be speedy. Mac's points on Brinn were quite good, I can see where he's got that from. Her later 'defense' feels quite forced too. Mith is a teeny bit over the top when it comes to reacting to suspicion but not enough to worry about it I think. Not sure where the Boro-hate is coming from but I've been really skim reading so I may have just missed that.

So I'm thinking it has to be Brinn right now.

++BRINN

[Mithalwen]

This is normally the point where I would start suspecting you for buttering up to me, but I know if you truly were a wolf you would be 100% taking advantage of this oppurtunity to lynch me right now.

...

Oh blimey now I am creeped - I was thinking this afternoon you might be guilty because you hadn't accused me of sucking up to you ..though of course I hadn't said I thought you were innocent at that point....

[Nogrod]

Because I asked her.Okay... okay... Point taken. :rolleyes:

Now let's continue with the wolf-hunt.

[Kath]

Oops, I forgot we were going by 'Downs time. Could have spent more time on that. Might go back and have a look at the whole Boro thing.

[Mithalwen]

Were you? How do you know? :D

Okay. Don't answer. We have more important things to do... :)

I do I am not sure about you - I quoted Boromir's question. You seem to be filibustering Mr....Cobbler?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Mith - It was a cover. :p I do actually think he's suspicious, but haven't had time to elaborate on why. I've applied for a Time-Turner to help get me through all my classes, but it hasn't arrived yet.

Although I must admit, being able to vote Boro is rather sweetly ironic. :Merisu: Boro, if you and I both live through the night, hopefully since it's the weekend I'll be able to explain why I voted you in more detail.

[Brinniel]

Am I overapologising? Hmm...well, I guess I kinda am. But I'm only putting a half-hearted effort into toDay (I can't help it, I'm sleepy) and I feel bad when I don't give 100%. Btw, that "sorry mate" comment when I voted Mac was supposed to be in-character. I was in a rush so I don't think I made it clear.

My apologies. I mean, sorr...oh crap...I'm doing it again. :p

I don't know why everyone finds Boromir so suspicious. He's making the most sense out of everyone...doesn't mean he's necessarily innocent, but I think lynching him on Day 1 would be a mistake.

I think Nogrod might be reading too much into Gwath's statements...

EDIT: X-ed with a million-gazillion posts...

[Lalwendë]

This is normally the point where I would start suspecting you for buttering up to me, but I know if you truly were a wolf you would be 100% taking advantage of this oppurtunity to lynch me right now.

Edit: crossed with Lal...now would she defend me if she was a wolf, or seize the oppurtunity to lynch me now? hmm...

Nope, nothing shady there, you really are just all over the shop.

[Macalaure]

I'm rather torn on Brinniel right now. At first, I was confident my points were good. Then a couple of people told me off, and I started doubting them. Now a couple of people tell me they were good or have similar thoughts.

Brinn, since you're here now, would you say in a line or two about it?

edit: obviously, crossed with Brin (and a few others)

[Nogrod]

You seem to be filibustering Mr....Cobbler?Fili... what? Sorry. I need a dictionary... and a cigarette anyway.

Gwath anyone?

Boro, CoD & Brinn on two now. Of those I'd say Brinn might be the best choice but CoD has been annoying. Boro I wouldn't lynch on Day1 for being himself.

[Macalaure]

Gwath anyone?

Boro, CoD & Brinn on two now. Of those I'd say Brinn might be the best choice but CoD has been annoying. Boro I wouldn't lynch on Day1 for being himself.

Brinn, Gwath, and Captain D are on my list, neither of which I feel really confident voting...

[Boromir88]

Although I must admit, being able to vote Boro is rather sweetly ironic. Boro, if you and I both live through the night, hopefully since it's the weekend I'll be able to explain why I voted you in more detail.
Fair enough Shasta. :D

Mac, I bet you don't need me saying this because you already know it, but I'm going to anyway...maybe you got a couple wolfies latching on to an easy choice. Either that you have ordinaries who think you've made the best "case" today.

[Lalwendë]

Fili... what? Sorry. I need a dictionary... and a cigarette anyway.

Gwath anyone?

Boro, CoD & Brinn on two now. Of those I'd say Brinn might be the best choice but CoD has been annoying. Boro I wouldn't lynch on Day1 for being himself.

I have my eye on Gwathagor, but not having had the pleasure of sharing a game before I have no previous knowledge to go on. I shall wait and see.

[Kath]

Filibustering is talking a lot in order to stop anything useful being done!

[satansaloser2005]

Fili... what? Sorry. I need a dictionary... and a cigarette anyway.

Gwath anyone?

Boro, CoD & Brinn on two now. Of those I'd say Brinn might be the best choice but CoD has been annoying. Boro I wouldn't lynch on Day1 for being himself.



*slaps* Oi, no cigarettes. Not all of us have respiratory bypass systems, THanks.



I agree. I'm between Boro and Brinn myself, unless something happens in these last ten(ish) minutes. I'd like to figure out what Captain's up to so I'm not too keen on that route. Bah, I'll send this and see what time the Downs says it is, then I may comment more.

[Mithalwen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster

[Brinniel]

Brinn, since you're here now, would you say in a line or two about it?

A line or two about what? Me as a lynch candidate?

I don't really know what to say. I'm too lazy and tired to come up with a proper defense. All I can say is that the first Day lynchee is almost always innocent and it seems toDay I am the target (don't worry I'm not the seer). Of course I don't want to die but I don't really know what I can say to change people's minds.

[satansaloser2005]

Is it just me or does there seem to be a semi-concensus on voting Brinn?



Fillibustering is being like Phantom. ;) Basically just blabbering incessantly to stop/interrupt/prevent discussion.


EDIT: x'd with a few....ish

[Mithalwen]

If I have to choose between the current ones it will be CoD .. something too clever clever about the day 1 thing...

[Nogrod]

If Brinn is innocent she is good to have around and I'm not too confident of her guilt right now - even if I see why she could be a wolf.

[Macalaure]

Mac, I bet you don't need me saying this because you already know it, but I'm going to anyway...maybe you got a couple wolfies latching on to an easy choice. Either that you have ordinaries who think you've made the best "case" today.

Would you please explain to me why it's suspicious if I give a short list of my top candidates in response to Nogrod, but Nogrod giving a short list of candidiates to begin with is not?

[satansaloser2005]

If Brinn is innocent she is good to have around and I'm not too confident of her guilt right now - even if I see why she could be a wolf.

The man speaks the truth. That's why I'm still considering my vote. Bah!

EDIT: x'd (sort of, I refreshed but didn't read if that makes sense) with Mac, who also speaks the truth by the way.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'd hate to see CoD go this early, simply because he's a fascinating specimen I've never seen before.

*twirls a wand*

[Macalaure]

I think I will go with CaptainofDespair. I do suspect both Brinn and Gwath, but I can see "the other side", too, so I'm not overly confident with either. CoD, judging from his contributions today (no offense intended), would be the least of a loss if innocent.

++CaptainofDespair

[Lalwendë]

Eh....I don't know what to think with Brinn's defence there. I'm always convinced of innocence by such a frank type of statement. But then wolves can also say things like that I suppose if they have no more time for setting up a defence. And she's clever.

No, I'll stay with my vote.

[Boromir88]

Umm I think CoD is going to be a victim for a wolf bandwagon

[Nogrod]

CoD is the "easy" lynch and therefore probably wrong... Boro I would like to have around.

I'd say Gwath as I think his behaviour has been over-defencive to the point of being suspicious. Of others I have not as much.

What say you others?

[Mithalwen]

Do you want to get lynched Boro?

[Brinniel]

Anyways, if anyone expects me to beg and plead for my life I won't. I tried that last time I got lynched and look where that got me (that nasty Agan-wolf's to blame). :rolleyes:

[Boromir88]

Would you please explain to me why it's suspicious if I give a short list of my top candidates in response to Nogrod, but Nogrod giving a short list of candidiates to begin with is not?~Mac
Sorry for my faux pas, I was responding to you feeling torn about Brin because some said no, and lately others came on and liked your case. So, I just said could be a wolf setting you up and latching on to an easy reason for a vote. If you're not a wolf.

[Durelin]

2 minutes-ish.

[Nogrod]

I'll try it then

++ Gwath

[satansaloser2005]

I think I will go with CaptainofDespair. I do suspect both Brinn and Gwath, but I can see "the other side", too, so I'm not overly confident with either. CoD, judging from his contributions today (no offense intended), would be the least of a loss if innocent.

++CaptainofDespair


It's true, Captain has been the least helpful, but that doesn't mean we have a Captain Fuzzball on our hands. I can't kill someone with good conscience when I have no idea what they're on about, at least not the first Day.


Between the two candidates besides Captain....

++Boro (sorry, dearie. hate to see you go but....you understand....)



EDIT: x'd with a host, including a now slightly-more-innocent-looking Boro. Well isn't that just wizard.

[Mithalwen]

Would probably go for Shasta or Nogrod if there was a point but for bad reasons (not to lose Boro and Brin yet)

++ Captain of Despair

[Nogrod]

Oh my... How about when two have the same number of votes? Which one goes?

[Boromir88]

Do you want to get lynched Boro?~Mith
Well I was hoping to stay around longer...but I wouldn't be the biggest loss.

++Lalwende

[Durelin]

Deadline.

Have to count votes again...

Edit:

CaptainofDespair has been lynched. He was a Werewolf. Narration will have to come later.

Night 2 has begun and all that. Wolves, you may PM; send me your kill. Seer, send me your dream. Ranger, send me the name of whom you wish to protect.

[Nogrod]

Uh... Boro you're either a hero or the greatest bluffer ever... :)

EDIT: sorry about going over the deadline.

[Durelin]

As usual, no one had a clue. Well, three among them knew what was going on, and all they had to do was stay alive. At least, that was the idea.

For some time, no one seemed to stand out. Before long, names were being tossed out at random. Reactions were ‘analyzed’ and vendettas continued from confrontations long past. Most everyone knew where each other stood on the important issues, such as proper pairings, whether or not ‘procedurally’ is Will Wright’s favorite word, and of course how they felt about Day Ones.

What mattered most on a day like today was whether or not you stood out. Boromir88 certainly set off some fireworks, but then there was this CaptainofDespair, in full costume…

“What is that?!” someone queried.

“It’s a rat!”

“Eww, let’s kill it!”

‘Cluny the Scourge’ was too busy organizing his troops and preparing for his siege of Day One. “Day One will become forever known as ‘Cluny’s Day!’” the Captain was speaking to himself. “First toDay, then toMorrow…then the entire convention! All shall attend “Cluny’s Con” and serve the might of Cluny the Scourge in constant terror of his wrath!”

At the sound of footsteps behind him, he turned, and among the people coming towards him he glimpsed a robed, hooded figure. It was just like in his dreams! Cluny the Scourge reached for his barbed tail, his weapon of choice, but he could make no move toward anyone before death came crashing down in the form of a large ceiling light.

“Pip-pip, onk-onk!” Lalwendë addressed the newly deceased.

The other con-goers picked through the debris to see precisely what kind of creature they had smooshed.

“Yup, still looks like a rat to me.”

Jedi Master N’Rwen stepped forward, her lightsaber humming. She dutifully removed Cluny the Scourge’s head, and CaptainofDespair’s with it. It went rolling, and then Cluny’s face burst apart. Everyone looked to Boro, but he just shrugged. When the smoke cleared, they did not see the human face most dreaded and suspected. Fur revealed more fur...a darker fur.

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-


~The Dead~

Leonard Nimoy (Half-Vulcan) ~ illogically murdered by the wolves
CaptainofDespair (Wererat) ~ Crushed on Day 1 to reveal his Dark Side
Day One (Evil Wizard) ~ Brought down alongside the might of Cluny the Scourge


~The Living~

Rikae - Stalker of the preciousss Andy Serkis
Nerwen - Jedi Master, specializing in memorabilia collecting and movie quoting
Feanor of the Peredhil - Rabid Cosmo fan and TOS-TNG Trekkie with opinions
Boromir88 - Fireworks Pyro and Sean Bean's #1 fan
Nilpaurion Felagund - Noldo with a zanpakutou named Telpelin and the Mangekyou Sharingan
Nogrod - "Spore" anticipator who wants to play Eru
Gwathagor - Academian lost among lunatics and pop culture
satansaloser2005 - "Doctor Who" Luuuver
McCaber - Old School RPer
Shastanis Althreduin - Rabid Hermione Fan-wizard
Brinniel - 'Reality' TV Fan
Mithalwen - Confused hardcore Tolkienista who thought she was going to Oxonmoot
Isabellkya - Rabid fan of Vampire Princess Miyu
Lalwendë - "In The Night Garden" Fan-mother
Kath - Pro-Harry/Hermione Fan-witch
Macalaure - "Civilization" fan with Machiavellian tendencies

Night 2 has begun. Yeah, said it already. Just felt like something belonged here.

[Durelin]

One moment, Kath was sleeping in the hotel room she shared with Shasta and other Harry Potter enthusiasts – everyone packed in to as few rooms as possible – and the next…she woke to the feeling of a cold tiled floor. Two sets of bright yellow eyes peered down at her.

Kath leaped to her feet, drawing her wand. “Expelliarmus!” she cried with finesse to match Harry Potter’s.

The eyes still stared, the dark forms that they belonged to unflinching.

“What?!” Kath cried. “That’s the only spell I know,” she groaned, “and that was good enough for Harry! Even when he faced…”

“Hermione…” came a growl from one of the dark figures, cutting her off. Both eyes took on a mischievous light.

“…Weasley.”

“What…did you say?” Kath asked, breathless, as if the wind had been knocked out of her.

“Rose…” the other figure growled.

“No!”

“Hugo…”

“No!”

They almost had her. The creatures decided to try another angle.

“Albus Sev--”

“No, no, no!”

Kath fell to her knees. It was all just too much…

That was when they pounced.

~*~

The next morning the con-goers found another typically grisly scene, but this time no suspects were taken into custody. No one had any doubt what they were up against anymore, not after seeing what was written in Kath’s blood…

“~The Moonys”

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-


~The Dead~

Leonard Nimoy (Half-Vulcan) ~ illogically murdered by the wolves
CaptainofDespair (Wererat) ~ Crushed on Day 1 to reveal his Dark Side
Day One (Evil Wizard) ~ Brought down alongside the might of Cluny the Scourge
Kath (Ordinary Innocent) ~ Emotionally tortured and ripped apart by the wolves on Night 2


~The Living~

Rikae - Stalker of the preciousss Andy Serkis
Nerwen - Jedi Master, specializing in memorabilia collecting and movie quoting
Feanor of the Peredhil - Rabid Cosmo fan and TOS-TNG Trekkie with opinions
Boromir88 - Fireworks Pyro and Sean Bean's #1 fan
Nilpaurion Felagund - Noldo with a zanpakutou named Telpelin and the Mangekyou Sharingan
Nogrod - "Spore" anticipator who wants to play Eru
Gwathagor - Academian lost among lunatics and pop culture
satansaloser2005 - "Doctor Who" Luuuver
McCaber - Old School RPer
Shastanis Althreduin - Rabid Hermione Fan-wizard
Brinniel - 'Reality' TV Fan
Mithalwen - Confused hardcore Tolkienista who thought she was going to Oxonmoot
Isabellkya - Rabid fan of Vampire Princess Miyu
Lalwendë - "In The Night Garden" Fan-mother
Macalaure - "Civilization" fan with Machiavellian tendencies


Night Two is over.

Day Two begins.

Wolves, cease PMing.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

So I get out of classes yesterday, and I'm thinking "Wow, I love art history! I'm barely aware I'm even taking it." And I'm thinking "Wow, I love aesthetics. It's so funny, having class with smart alecky boys." And I'm reading the thread and I'm eating lunch and I'm thinking "Wait, who has the most votes? What's happening?" And I take a slightly closer look and think "Why did they kill Cap? ZOMG he's a wolf?"

So now I'm thinking I need to reread the thread and figure out how people saw his behavior and was like "Wolf" when I really hadn't thought twice about him.

[Boromir88]

I thought for sure that was going to end in disaster. What a thrill. Now why do you hate Day 1's again Fea?

P.S. I'm going to a ball game tomorrow at 1, so I will have to vote pretty early today.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Now why do you hate Day 1's again Fea?

Chaos theory.

[Brinniel]

CoD's role was pretty surprising. I wasn't expecting him to be a wolf...but then again I've never played with him before so I didn't know what to expect. And to think I was starting to feel bad for the guy to be a Day 1 lynchee since I don't think he's played for awhile...

Okay, so the voting count:

Rikae: ++Sally (Sally 1)
Shasta: ++Boromir (Sally 1, Boromir 1)
Brinn: ++Mac (Sally 1, Boromir 1, Mac 1)
Gwath: ++Rikae (Sally 1, Boromir 1, Mac 1, Rikae 1)
McCaber: ++CoD (Sally 1, Boromir 1, Mac 1, Rikae 1, CoD 1)
Lalwendë: ++Brinn (Sally 1, Boromir 1, Mac 1, Rikae 1, CoD 1, Brinn 1)
Fëa: ++Boro (Sally 1, Boromir 2, Mac 1, Rikae 1, CoD 1, Brinn 1)
Izzy: ++CoD (Sally 1, Boromir 2, Mac 1, Rikae 1, CoD 2, Brinn 1)
Kath: ++Brinn (Sally 1, Boromir 2, Mac 1, Rikae 1, CoD 2, Brinn 2)
Mac: ++CoD (Sally 1, Boromir 2, Mac 1, Rikae 1, CoD 3, Brinn 2)
Nogrod: ++Gwath (Sally 1, Boromir 2, Mac 1, Rikae 1, CoD 3, Brinn 2, Gwath 1)
Sally: ++Boromir (Sally 1, Boromir 3, Mac 1, Rikae 1, CoD 3, Brinn 2, Gwath 1)
Mithalwen: ++CoD (Sally 1, Boromir 3, Mac 1, Rikae 1, CoD 4, Brinn 2, Gwath 1)
Boromir: ++Lal (Sally 1, Boromir 3, Mac 1, Rikae 1, CoD 4, Brinn 2, Gwath 1, Lal 1)

What does this mean? Well, we can't disregard the possibility of a wolf-on-wolf vote...but when it was so close I think it's less likely. If any of the CoD voters were wolves, I think it would've been an earlier voter...unless we have some very bold wolves among us.

So McCaber, Izzy, Mac, and Mith look pretty innocent to me right now...particularly the latter two.

Question: Why kill Kath? In my opinion, there were probably more obvious kills than her after a Fenris Wolf....so she's an interesting choice.

[Mithalwen]

Hi, I am here but need to read through. I maz have to vote earlz since I think I am doing the good godmother act tomorrow....

[Macalaure]

So CoD was really a wolf. Hehe. I don't think such a shot in the dark (at least for me it partly was one) has ever been successful, but eventually, it had to.

They killed Kath... my first idea is that the wolves try to turn their misery into an advantage and have us run out of things to say today: CoD was rather silent, and Kath hasn't been too talkative either.

I'll be back later with thoughts on the dead and the voting.

[Boromir88]

Fea, have you been watching Jurassic Park lately?

Question: Why kill Kath? In my opinion, there were probably more obvious kills than her after a Fenris Wolf....so she's an interesting choice.~Brin
Everyone's always surprised when Kath dies...well except for Mith. I think that's the only blotch on Mith's record is if she was a wolf she would go for Kath very early.

Brin, check out this theory...Kath appeared, says she agrees with Mac's points against you and thus votes for you. You're a wolf, believed Kath was the seer, and she dreamed about you (because of the way she kind of sneakily enters in and casts a vote for you). Now you come in to the day asking about "why kill Kath?" to look like you're trying to help us.

or, well the wolves are setting you up honey.

[Boromir88]

Ooh look what I found. In post 67 CoD, votes for Day 1. In post 69 (some 50 minutes later):

Seriously? No, really, you're bluffing right? This is one of those 'I'm going to let the Daleks think they can kill me but really my companion is bringing the TARDIS back in five minutes to save my behind' kind of things, right?

I just find this extremely....not good. (Late night, apologies. Off for a nap then I'll come back. And if I don't, as fair warning, it's because my computer's been acting up like none other.)~Sally

In Post 92:
Captain: I've played with a few Captains before, and it's always interesting. Harkness always wants to "meet new people" and that creepy woman from UNIT had an obsession with left-hand turns. This Captain? Votes, but doesn't. At the same time, though, I've never played with Captain before, so I'll just leave this alone, at least for toDay.

Post 119:
I agree. I'm between Boro and Brinn myself, unless something happens in these last ten(ish) minutes. I'd like to figure out what Captain's up to so I'm not too keen on that route. Bah, I'll send this and see what time the Downs says it is, then I may comment more.

Post 136:
It's true, Captain has been the least helpful, but that doesn't mean we have a Captain Fuzzball on our hands. I can't kill someone with good conscience when I have no idea what they're on about, at least not the first Day.


Between the two candidates besides Captain....

++Boro (sorry, dearie. hate to see you go but....you understand....)

Sally is the first one to point out the strangeness in CoD's vote, and continues to go back to that, but when it comes down to crunch time she votes for me. Now, she did consistently name me and Brin as her other suspects, but so?...that's a clever wolf covering her tracks. In her last post she defends CoD and explains why she can't vote for him and goes on to vote for me. Sorry, sally, I don't understand why you voted for me, care to explain?

[Mithalwen]

[Everyone's always surprised when Kath dies...well except for Mith. I think that's the only blotch on Mith's record is if she was a wolf she would go for Kath very early.

[.

Kath is a very good player who hadn't been around much. She also wasn't an obvious choice for ranger protection. Though I got that wrong....

But Boro dearest, I fear you may have taken a knock to the head - only blotch on my record as a wolf wanting Kath dead? More or less unanimously Fenrised first time, gave my self up another .... only successes thanks to my team mates.... you are up to something and I am stilll trying it figure it out. I am not used to you being this nice to me in werewolf games.........

[Boromir88]

But Boro dearest, I fear you may have taken a knock to the head - only blotch on my record as a wolf wanting Kath dead? More or less unanimously Fenrised first time, gave my self up another .... only successes thanks to my team mates.... you are up to something and I am stilll trying it figure it out. I am not used to you being this nice to me in werewolf games.........~Mith
Oh no, no, I met in this village the only reason I can think to suspect you is Kath ends up dead on Day 1, and I know you like killing Kath on Day 1.

Now what am I up to for being much nicer to you in this game? Well, I have that soothing, calm sense in your posts that I get from an innocent Mith. And call it my strange way of telling you there was no need to apologize.

[Brinniel]

Brin, check out this theory...Kath appeared, says she agrees with Mac's points against you and thus votes for you. You're a wolf, believed Kath was the seer, and she dreamed about you (because of the way she kind of sneakily enters in and casts a vote for you). Now you come in to the day asking about "why kill Kath?" to look like you're trying to help us.

or, well the wolves are setting you up honey.
Hah, well it must be the latter because I'm certainly not a wolf. :rolleyes:

Anyway, do you really think I would kill someone on Night 2 thinking they're a possible seer just because they voted me? I know from past games I'm someone who's rarely ever dreamt of...and honestly, the possibility that the seer would dream of me on Night 1 is the last thing I'd expect.

Kath is a very good player who hadn't been around much. She also wasn't an obvious choice for ranger protection.
Ah yes, the ranger...I almost forgot. Perhaps that's why the wolves didn't kill those who I thought would be more obvious choices. Good point.

[Mithalwen]

Oh no, no, I met in this village the only reason I can think to suspect you is Kath ends up dead on Day 1, and I know you like killing Kath on Day 1.

Now what am I up to for being much nicer to you in this game? Well, I have that soothing, calm sense in your posts that I get from an innocent Mith. And call it my strange way of telling you there was no need to apologize.

But I value her friendship enough not to make a habit of it...

Ah you move in mysterious ways.... :cool:

[Macalaure]

CaptainofDespair only made one real post. He's mildly suspicious of me, Rikae, and Boro, so I would say that not both Rikae and Boro are wolves.

Kath only had one real post, too. She suspects Brinn and votes for her. She also slightly suspicious of Mith and says she doesn't know why people don't like Boro.

I still think she was killed for the lack of trails. But I think it's possible, though not too likely, that a Brinnwolf wanted to get rid of one of her attackers.

Early Votes:
Rikae -> Sally. More or less random vote.
Shasta -> Boro. Either hunch or spite.
Brinn -> Mac. A bit of a retaliation there, but on Day 1, you often don't have any better.
Gwath -> Rikae. Can't really follow his reasoning. Not sure what to think of this vote.

Mid-votes:
Caber -> CoD. Probably an innocent vote. He must've been aware that this vote could cause a bandwaggon.
Lal -> Brinn. I can see her reasoning, so her vote doesn't make me suspicious.
Fea -> Boro. Their feud has been going on all day, so the vote isn't surprising. I'm still somewhat uneasy about Fea and will look at her closely today.
Izzy -> CoD. Surely an innocent vote, because it keeps his name in the pot.
Kath -> Brinn.
me -> Cod. Most innocentish vote of all. :Merisu:

Late votes:
Nogrod -> Gwath. He's consistent in his suspicion. He could have voted Boro to save CoD (unless Boro's a wolf, too), but didn't.
Sally -> Boro. This vote has me thinking.
Mith -> CoD. This is most likely this is an innocent vote, but I could see it as a backstab, too. I think it's possible Mithwolf thought it was too risky to try to save him and instead decided to sacrifice him to make herself look good.
Boro -> Lal This has a bit of a throwaway feeling to it. However, if he and CoD are both wolves, why didn't Boro act earlier and gave his vote to a third candidate to make it possible for them both to survive?

The only vote that's somewhat suspicious is Sally's. This has me thinking at least one, maybe both, wolves are hiding among the earlier voters.

The Captain's Day One vote caused some eyebrows to be raised early. McCaber votes for him, Sally thinks about it, but then decides to give him a second chance. Then there's Izzy's vote rather out of the blue. After that, Nogrod ponders voting for him as a second-best choice. Mith and I then state we might vote for him and will later do so. Shasta, Sally, and Boro dissuade people from going after CoD. Nogrod refrains from it and goes with his first choice (who at this point was very unlikely to get enough support).

[Macalaure]

In a nutshell:

Worried about:
Brinn, Fea, Gwath, Sally

Slightly worried about:
Boro, Nogrod

No idea:
Nerwen, Nilp

Not sure about, but not alarmed:
Rikae, Shasta

Probably innocent:
Isabellkya, Lal, McCaber, Mith

[Rikae]

Hm, well. A couple of thoughts -
for me, at least, the CoD lynch seems like just too much of a windfall. I can't help but wonder how much of a wolf-on-wolf component may be involved in it. I suppose, as Sally points out, Izzy and McCobbler's votes look the most wolvish from that standpoint, but perhaps Mac or Mith decided to risk sacrificing a fellow to look good in the eyes of the village - I wouldn't rule it out.

I still don't like the looks of Boro. I like them less and less, in fact - he seems generally too smooth, as if he is trying to win allies, and at the same time, his case against Sally looks rather trumped up to me. After all, however you try to spin it, he made a rather frantic-looking effort to save CoD before DL yesterDay, and now he goes after Sally for her doubts about CoD as a lynchee. Well, Sally's doubts, to me, look just like what I would have been thinking, had I been around at the time - the truth is, there really wasn't a whole lot of solid reasoning behind the lynching, wolf or no wolf - it looked just like the typical "lynch the oddball on day 1" fiasco. Voting for Day One, actually, was something I considered doing myself yesterDay, after hearing everyone go on and on about how awful it was. :D

One other thought - Brinniel continues to look very innocent and sincere. In fact, she seems almost to be playing up the sincerity thing, now that it's been pointed out - but perhaps that's just paranoia on my part.

EDIT: X'd two Macs. (Edited again when I realized I mentioned cross-posts that actually weren't)

[Macalaure]

Oh, and there was a misunderstanding from my side about Boro yesterday. His post #115 was obviously cross-posted with my #114 (even though it's not remarked). In the heat of the last 10 minutes I didn't noticed it and didn't see he was really referring to my #112 and that's why I complained in #124.

Sorry for my faux pas

Nah, mine. :)

[Isabellkya]

Wow.
What a strike of luck.
My voting on CoD was pretty darn random. I was trying to make a vote while trying to get out the door at the same time. His voting of Day One stood out in my mind the most, so I figured heh why not.

To me, Kath's death; looks like an attempt at a clean kill.
I know, for some reason I always get her and The Ka mixed up, because of K's and A's.. and being quiet on the first day.

Boro when you duped the others when claiming false Rangership, who is it you were trying to kill when Shasta protected them? Wasn't it Kath?

[Mithalwen]

Shasta did protect Kath that game however it ended up that due to technical and time zone problems the choice of Kath was mine alone. I don't think he had any input and I would be suprised if that was an issue here. Unless Boro is a wolf and is trying to frame me... while also proclaiming my innocence. Doens't really add up.

[Boromir88]

Well, Sally's doubts, to me, look just like what I would have been thinking, had I been around at the time - the truth is, there really wasn't a whole lot of solid reasoning behind the lynching, wolf or no wolf - it looked just like the typical "lynch the oddball on day 1" fiasco.~Rikae
Or a very successful strategy I used last village as a wolf...consistently suspecting my other partners but never voting for them.

I still don't like the looks of Boro. I like them less and less, in fact - he seems generally too smooth, as if he is trying to win allies
Why's that? Because I've said Mith and Brin are innocent? I've managed to suspect (in some way or another): Lal, Shasta, Nogrod, Mac, Nerwen, sally, and you. What's your list again?

[Nogrod]

Wow! Hopefully this will encourage people to lynch those who try to just slip through Day1 with nonsense in the following games. I mean if there would be that kind of general attitude the wolves (and innocents) would know they will have to actually play on Day1 as well and the game would become so much more interesting.

As I said yesterDay his playing style annoyed me but I was thinking of him as an ordo trying to get through Day1 as easily as possible to see whether he would get interested in the game later on.

Luckily many enough were ready to vote him off.


I'll summarise the few lists given here already to form myself a preliminary manual for where to look toDay.

McCaber, Isabell, Mac and Mith voted for CoD. Looking at the closeness of the race yesterDay it seems - like Brinn already commented - a bit unlikely there is a wolf among them. It's possible, to be sure but still...

CoD "suspected" Macalaure, Rikae and Boro. That was quite an early post and so he had no reason to believe he was going to get lynched. So it could be believable that those he mentioned were innocent indeed to whom he wished to point the discussion to go for. It's possible he put one of his fellows there to be sure but like Mac said it's improbable both of his mates are there and personally - at least for the time being I'm bending to think there are not even one of his mates there.

If these points are plausible - as working-hypotheses to begin with - then it would suggest that we could feel pretty safe with:

McCaber
Isabell
Macalaure
Mithalwen
Rikae
Boro

Nice list indeed. And I'd bet a lot against there being two wolves there.

So that leaves us with:

Nerwen
Feanor of the Peredhil
Nilpaurion Felagund
Nogrod
Gwathagor
satansaloser2005
Shastanis Althreduin
Brinniel
Lalwendë

And one or two wolves lurking there.

(Before anyone jumps on it: no, I'm not suggesting this is the final truth of the matter or think we should forget the above six and only notice what the rest say... No, no and no. I'm just trying to help myself to orientate and to see where to look in the beginning toDay.)

[Mithalwen]

I am afraid I am going th have to cut and run shortly - I do have to see the godchild so may be a semi random vote - hopefully which will turn out as well as the last one... :D

[Boromir88]

Nerwen
Feanor of the Peredhil
Nilpaurion Felagund
Nogrod
Gwathagor
satansaloser2005
Shastanis Althreduin
Brinniel
Lalwendë~Nogrod
You don't feel safe about yourself Nogrod? :p

[Nogrod]

I'm certainly not a wolf.Okay, who's the next one to declare innocence?


But there are actually things in Brinn's posting I think merit a second look.
Anyway, do you really think I would kill someone on Night 2 thinking they're a possible seer just because they voted me?I don't think anyone has said that. But if you're a wolf and saw Kath coming out of the blue just stating her suspicion & vote, you might think she could be the seer. And seers will have to go whatever the cost - even if it means the death of the seer frames one wolf. The seer is too dangerous not to be killed at the first possible instant.

honestly, the possibility that the seer would dream of me on Night 1 is the last thing I'd expect.What you expect or don't isn't actually an argument in your favour in this case (or in any case). :) Why do you state that expectation? The more interesting part does begin right here.

So let's assume you're a wolf for the argument's sake. Now you realise that your trying to kill the seer backfired and you are exposed because someone guessed right the reason behind Kath's death. Understandably you feel an urge to purify your name and so you try to come up with every possible reason why the theory doesn't hold. Then you come up with a) I wouldn't kill someone for just voting me & b) and the seer wouldn't have dreamt of me anyway...

Now these surely might be things you could come up with and defend both of them. It's only that bringing them up together looks kind of fishy. I mean if you were an innocent you wouldn't probably think it that way, if you get what I mean.

And to add one small thing more; if you're an innocent why do you speculate about yourself being dreamt of in that fashion? If you're an innocent a seer dream means you're a known innocent by now. It's not something you should be afraid of or in need to convince others that has not happened - or that you would not expect that it has happened...

Ah yes, the ranger...I almost forgot. Perhaps that's why the wolves didn't kill those who I thought would be more obvious choices. Good point.The classic, straight from the Werewolf handbook! Was it Hint #13 for tightening situations? :D

To open the Day by asking why Kath was killed and to leave an impression you had no idea is actually a sound wolf tactics as Boro already mentioned. Saying that you forgot about the ranger kind of underlines the very same thing: look at me, I have no idea why she was killed. But why would an innocent stress that so much? A wolf might feel the need to do that though...

And to add that classical "Good point" you try to help a common consensus to be built that the reason for Kath's death was her being a safe kill and not being one you thought was the seer...


Okay this is all very speculative. I admit it myself. But still it's my second best suspicion this far (Gwath still remaining my #1 at the moment).

It may be you Brinn have been framed. It may be Boro indeed is our cobbler and he has been grinning all the time he has read my post until now of course... :rolleyes:

[Nogrod]

You don't feel safe about yourself Nogrod? :pYeah... you know, slight schizophrenia and existential issues... :D

Actually:
So that leaves us with:So it was a general list... not my own list as such.

[Gwathagor]

McCaber, Isabell, Mac and Mith voted for CoD. Looking at the closeness of the race yesterDay it seems - like Brinn already commented - a bit unlikely there is a wolf among them. It's possible, to be sure but still...

CoD "suspected" Macalaure, Rikae and Boro. That was quite an early post and so he had no reason to believe he was going to get lynched. So it could be believable that those he mentioned were innocent indeed to whom he wished to point the discussion to go for. It's possible he put one of his fellows there to be sure but like Mac said it's improbable both of his mates are there and personally - at least for the time being I'm bending to think there are not even one of his mates there.

If these points are plausible - as working-hypotheses to begin with - then it would suggest that we could feel pretty safe with:

McCaber
Isabell
Macalaure
Mithalwen
Rikae
Boro

Nice list indeed. And I'd bet a lot against there being two wolves there.




I agree that those who voted against CoD are unlikely wolves, given, as you say, the closeness of the voting.

However, I'm inclined to be more wary of any lists of "suspects" that wolves produce, no matter what point in the game they occur. I'd bet that there's at least one wolf in that group. CoD doesn't seem to be the most sophisticated player (correct me if I'm wrong), and "suspecting" a fellow wolf is about as straightforward a wolf tactic as there is. But since we've exonerated Mac (since he was instrumental in lynching CoD), that leaves Boro and Rikae.

Which one, I couldn't say.

Also, Nogrod, could you explain your suspicion of me yesterDay? As far as I can tell, it's mostly groundless and exaggerated, compounded by the fact that you spent several posts fishing for other votes against me - which, of course, looks like a wolf trying to start a bandwagon.

That's all I've got for now.

[Mithalwen]

Gwath - do not underestimate Captain of Despair. He has a formidable mind as anyone has RPGed with him will tell uyou . His bold move didn't work this time and he doesn't play a lot but he does not lack sophistication.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

So I went back and looked (my Time-Turner finally came! Yay!), and in regards to my vote for Boro yesterday... what I thought was suspicious yesterday is in actuality more fluff. I thought I saw an indirect attack on both Rikae and Fea, but it doesn't look so much like that now.

...Which leads me to believe that it was Boro's latent phantomic tendencies ("hijacking" a discussion? Really?) that caused me to vote him. :smokin:

In all seriousness though, I'd like to apologize to Boromir (and I absolutely hate having to apologize, it gives me indigestion, seriously!) because my vote yesterday was basically unfounded and may or may not, in fact, have had something to do with the outcome last time we clashed. Sorry, I'll do better in the future.

(And it wasn't spite. :mad:)

Edit: X'd with Nog, Gwath, and Mith.

[Nogrod]

Also, Nogrod, could you explain your suspicion of me yesterDay?As far as I can tell, it's mostly groundless and exaggerated Check my post #80 (second page, last post). It's quite compactly put there. It's not the the most solid case there could be, sure, but it's not bad as Day1-theories go.

[Gwathagor]

Gwath - do not underestimate Captain of Despair. He has a formidable mind as anyone has RPGed with him will tell uyou . His bold move didn't work this time and he doesn't play a lot but he does not lack sophistication.

I am inclined to believe you on behalf of your greater experience. Of course, you could be a wolf as well.

[Gwathagor]

Check my post #80 (second page, last post). It's quite compactly put there. It's not the the most solid case there could be, sure, but it's not bad as Day1-theories go.

Come on, Nogrod, you know what I think of Day 1 theories.

When I get back from dinner, I'll take a look at it.

[Boromir88]

It may be you Brinn have been framed. It may be Boro indeed is our cobbler and he has been grinning all the time he has read my post until now of course...~Nogrod
Nope, not the cobbler. I can see how you think that, I have been as Lal said "all over the shop." But my flippantness has innocent intentions, I like having fun and at least get people talking, especially on the slow Day 1's. Perhaps also some ego intentions, because I like the attention directed at me. However, you may start seeing a move to the more conventional Boromir as we are past Day 1 and in the serious stuff now. :p

My accusations against sally are completely serious, I think she was trying to pull the clever wolf ploy that has worked exceedingly well for me in my evil past. Also, I think Brin just sounds sincere and your "case" against her seems a bit forced. However, I will go back and do some re-examining on Brin if you consider taking a good look at sally.

Edit: Shasta, I apologize if you thought, I thought your vote was in spite. I did think it was a throw away and influenced by our last clash, but definitely not in spite. Thank you for the explanation.

[Mithalwen]

I am inclined to believe you on behalf of your greater experience. Of course, you could be a wolf as well.

I fully admit I am not the worlds greatest success story as a wolf cf my reply to Boro today but I am not spo rubbish that I would have killed a packmate when there was a three way tie nearly up to the wire and a possibility of a late pact. If I were a wolf all the other three couldn't be ..all I would have had to do was pick a/the non wolf :rolleyes:

[Boromir88]

I am inclined to believe you on behalf of your greater experience. Of course, you could be a wolf as well.~Gwath
To add to Mith's last post. If she was a wolf, there is no question in my mind she would have taken full advantage of the oppurtunity to lynch me yesterday.

[Mithalwen]

I may have said it looked like a spite vote - if so ..I am sorry to have caused offence but I just meant it as short hand for a vote influence by history/ retaliation whatever rather than just on the matters in hand.

[Nogrod]

Come on, Nogrod, you know what I think of Day 1 theories.I do. But what you think about Day1 theories in general doesn't influence the correctness or incorrectness of any particular Day1 theory by anyone... :D

And believe it or not: I've been in a handful of games where indeed actual reasoning has gotten us a wolf on Day1. So you should give Day1's a bit more respect even if they oftentimes feel like randomized lottery.

The interesting fact is - just to say it aloud before going to sleep - that in villages where a majority thinks Day1's are hateful and stupid Day1's are the most random as no one really tries. And what follows from that they rarely offer too much hindsight even at the later stages if all people have done is banter and random-voting. In villages where majority goes all in from the earliest moments the Day1's are the most fruitful - and basically the ones where we have really gotten the wolves with brains and not by sheer luck.

Also it's clear that just whining about Day1's all Day1 is not actually playing them and that's unsporty and whatever. But most importantly it's good for the wolves as they can hide in the nonsense much easier than in the middle of arguments. :rolleyes:

[Mithalwen]

Sorry this is not the semi random vote I expected but Shasta and Brinniel have quieted my suspicions a little and some such as Lal haven't reappeared. Nogrod still seems off ... still wouldn't be suprised if he were a cobbler.


However - I find Gwathagor's response, to my response on his "correct me if I am wrong" re Captain of Despair baffling. How that pointing out that COD isn't an unsphisticated thinker makes me a wolf is beyond me.

Especially since he just agreed with Nogrod that it was unlikely that a COD voter were a wolf.

Sorry got to go but will vote

++Gwathagor

[Nogrod]

Also, I think Brin just sounds sincere and your "case" against her seems a bit forced. However, I will go back and do some re-examining on Brin if you consider taking a good look at sally.
Even if I don't get that "I'll do X if you will do Y" -kind of exchange (would you not do X if I'd refuse to do Y?), I do agree that it would be good if someone else also looked after Brinn and I'm indeed going to look at Sally tomorrow after I wake up.

My suspicions on Brinn were raised in fact on yesterDay already (Mac's points looked reasonable compared with my own feelings of her posting) but I thought they were too little to justify a Day1 lynch. But then when toDay I saw Brinn's posting I also remembered the things from Day1 and therefore felt it important enough to bring something forwards. I need to look back at the yesterDay's stuff myself as well with Brinn as I have toDay only looked at two posts from her toDay.

[Boromir88]

Even if I don't get that "I'll do X if you will do Y" -kind of exchange (would you not do X if I'd refuse to do Y?)~Nogrod
It's time for me to point out what you pointed out to me a little bit ago...

Actually:
However, I will go back and do some re-examining on Brin if you consider taking a good look at sally.~me
Didn't say you had to do it. :D

[Nogrod]

However - I find Gwathagor's response, to my response on his "correct me if I am wrong" re Captain of Despair baffling. How that pointing out that COD isn't an unsphisticated thinker makes me a wolf is beyond me.
Indeed. Who could make that kind of a point? I mean had Mith lied someone would have caught her from it. I mean there must be a host of people who have played with CoD many times. I've played with him a few games and can only agree with Mith about his resourcefulness. And why would Mith lie about CoD's abilities or history, how could lying in that kind of matters help her in the first place?

So who could make such a point then (Gwath's point that is)?

Someone with really original, basically idiosyncratic thinking-processes?
Someone who writes without thinking?
A nervous wolf under pressure trying to mirror anything so that people would talk of something else than him?

I think Gwath is none of the two first ones.

I'm not sure I have all the possibilities there to be sure but at least now those are the ones that come to mind. :confused:


ADD: Point taken Boro. I stressed the ifand you stressed the consider... and they are not at the same level. :) So you're right (darn broken English...)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

How long until deadline...?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Which leads me to believe that it was Boro's latent phantomic tendencies ("hijacking" a discussion? Really?) that caused me to vote him.

Really?

[Lalwendë]

Wolf Feint Theory
If CoD was nominated by one of his fellow wolves as a feint, then it didn't work. And if that was the case, then whichever one of them did it should be clear, because they obviously weren't around at the deadline to save him. That should be easy to work out. There's Mccaber, Isabellkya, Mith and Mac. Any of those not around at deadline should be suspects, going by that hypothesis.

Boro cannot be a wolf or he'd have jumped onto one of those bandwagons to save CoD and not randomly voted for moi. He gave no reason to be umming and ahhing and waiting til the end for nefarious reasons, he clearly had no clue.

If Brinn is the wolf then I'm certainly for it tonight. Though of course, if she is not, then I might be anyway, as this will for sure cast her in a bad light if I get wolf-mauled so making me ideal wolf food. Either way, I might be curtains.

Sally gets onto an anti-Boro bandwagon at a late stage which smells of wolf but is just too obvious a nudge at bumping his numbers up.

Why is Nogrod so keen on Gwathagor's guilt?

And don't think I've forgotten you, oh quiet ones.....

Anyway, that's it for now - wanted to post more but I was watching a load of films and now it's time for me bed. I shall pontificate on some more of all your behaviour in the English morning....;)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Really?

Meaning...?

[Rikae]

I'm finding Lal's post a bit bewildering - perhaps I'm not the only one...

Wolf Feint Theory
If CoD was nominated by one of his fellow wolves as a feint, then it didn't work. And if that was the case, then whichever one of them did it should be clear, because they obviously weren't around at the deadline to save him. That should be easy to work out. There's Mccaber, Isabellkya, Mith and Mac. Any of those not around at deadline should be suspects, going by that hypothesis.

How could a wolf who had already voted for CoD save him at the deadline?

Boro cannot be a wolf or he'd have jumped onto one of those bandwagons to save CoD and not randomly voted for moi. He gave no reason to be umming and ahhing and waiting til the end for nefarious reasons, he clearly had no clue.
I suppose he wouldn't have been likely to do that, true. He could be a cobbler, though.

If Brinn is the wolf then I'm certainly for it tonight. Though of course, if she is not, then I might be anyway, as this will for sure cast her in a bad light if I get wolf-mauled so making me ideal wolf food. Either way, I might be curtains.
This I don't get at all. Why....?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Meaning...?

Meaning, "Really?"

Meaning, I'm questioning the sincerity and motive of your public display of affection.

I'm so sorry, Boromir, I'll never question you again, please forgive me for suspecting you even though enough others did that you were a front-runner for a lynching.

Either you're the seer and you dreamt of him (which I find rather unlikely) or you've got something up your sleeve. "My vote was unfounded..."

It was a first day vote. The only foundation you need for such things is "You seemed more suspicious than the rest." Even if by a negligible amount.

So why apologize so openly and so ostentatiously unless you want everybody to think that you must obviously be the seer who dreamt of Boromir and that you want to lay out a clear absolution of him?

Seers aren't that careless.

So yeah.

"Really?"

[Brinniel]

And to add one small thing more; if you're an innocent why do you speculate about yourself being dreamt of in that fashion? If you're an innocent a seer dream means you're a known innocent by now. It's not something you should be afraid of or in need to convince others that has not happened - or that you would not expect that it has happened...
I'm not afraid of being dreamt of. If the seer wants to dream of me, then go ahead. Of course it's better if the seer finds wolves rather than ordos, but if they did dream of me at least they won't be left uncertain about what my role might be. I stated that I did not think I was dreamt of on Night 1 because that's what I honestly believe. I received a bit of attention yesterDay so maybe the seer has dreamt of me by now...but there's no way for me to know for sure.

The classic, straight from the Werewolf handbook! Was it Hint #13 for tightening situations?

To open the Day by asking why Kath was killed and to leave an impression you had no idea is actually a sound wolf tactics as Boro already mentioned. Saying that you forgot about the ranger kind of underlines the very same thing: look at me, I have no idea why she was killed. But why would an innocent stress that so much? A wolf might feel the need to do that though...
Okay, so I forget about the ranger and suddenly I'm a wolf? I was wondering about Kath aloud; it was one of the first thoughts that came up when I posted. Perhaps if I spent longer analysing I would've come to my own conclusions, but I spend long enough writing my posts as it is and usually at the beginning of the Day I just like to state whatever first comes to mind. And as for the ranger, it's a role I keep forgetting we have...there wasn't originally even going to be a ranger, but Durelin added it in last minute. Anyways, my brain must be skipping over all the general info of this game because I also didn't realise we had a cobbler until it was mentioned. :rolleyes:

[Gwathagor]

However - I find Gwathagor's response, to my response on his "correct me if I am wrong" re Captain of Despair baffling. How that pointing out that COD isn't an unsphisticated thinker makes me a wolf is beyond me.




Well crap. I wasn't actually accusing you; I was just saying that while I was inclined to agree with you, you could theoretically be a wolf, and so I should take your point (however reasonable) with a grain of salt. That's all I was saying. I wasn't pretending to provide any kind of evidence.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Meaning, "Really?"

Meaning, I'm questioning the sincerity and motive of your public display of affection.

I'm so sorry, Boromir, I'll never question you again, please forgive me for suspecting you even though enough others did that you were a front-runner for a lynching.

Either you're the seer and you dreamt of him (which I find rather unlikely) or you've got something up your sleeve. "My vote was unfounded..."

It was a first day vote. The only foundation you need for such things is "You seemed more suspicious than the rest." Even if by a negligible amount.

So why apologize so openly and so ostentatiously unless you want everybody to think that you must obviously be the seer who dreamt of Boromir and that you want to lay out a clear absolution of him?

Seers aren't that careless.

So yeah.

"Really?"

How about "At least two people called my vote pure spite, and I don't enjoy people thinking I would be the type of person who does that"?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

How about "At least two people called my vote pure spite, and I don't enjoy people thinking I would be the type of person who does that"?

Okay. Wolf it is.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Okay. Wolf it is.

Why do I bother...? :rolleyes:

[Isabellkya]

Oh Shasta, she baited you and you gobbled it up.

Okay, so I'm going to look at Nog today, and maybe Sally.
Maybe Boro as well.

Nog, because he has said a few things which went DING DING DING.
Also, because the ...relationship(?)... between him and Boro is a bit unsettling. Just seems to be a little too... buddybuddy.

Sally, because she seemed a bit contradictory; she said she was going to leave CoD alone, then continued to mention him in several posts following.

Boro, mainly because of his buddybuddy-ness with Nog.


For Durelin; what happens in the event of a tie?
Is the person who had the most first lynched, or the more recent one?


X'd with Shasta.

[satansaloser2005]

I'm sorry, I'm so sorry.


Major computer issues today, but I'm here now. I'm going to go look over posts and see what there is to see.



Kath? Why Kath? Random much....


Okay, I was right, Captain looked funny but I'm horrible at first impressions and figured I'd misjudged him. On that note, yay for his death (and an apology Boro; of the people I was considering voting, you kept jumping out at me.) and hopefully we'll get a good lynch toDay, shall we? :)


Off to read. Don't know when I'll be back (Internet's still a bit hit or miss) but I'll try to post a couple times before I pop off to bed.

[Brinniel]

I shall do an analysis The Bachelor/Bachelorette style...

The Bachelors:

Boromir88: I still see him as sensible and not very supicious. I wonder if that's partly because he's been defending me. Hmm...I have a habit of trusting people who defend me...I better be careful...

Nilpaurion Felagund : Ehmm...has he posted at all?

Nogrod: I don't really like the reasoning behind his suspicions. As I mentioned yesterDay, I think was reading too much into Gwath's post. He's definitely someone I need to take a closer look at tomorrow.

Gwathagor: So why are people jumping all over him toDay? I don't see anything particularly suspicious. Maybe I'm just a bit hesitant to see him lynched after what happened last game...

McCaber: Of the CoD voters, he's probably the most likely to be a wolf. But does that mean he is one? I don't really think so, and while I don't want to totally disregard him (or any of the other CoD voters for that matter), toDay I will give him the benefit of the doubt. Have a rose.

Shastanis Althreduin: Poor Shasta, everyone seems to go after him and no one ever believes him until after he is dead. Of course, he could really take advantage of that if he were a werewolf this time around. Hmm...I'm not sure what to think of him as of now.

Macalaure: Probably had the most innocent looking vote of Day 1. Because of that I really doubt he's a wolf and if he is, I'll eat my hat. So go ahead and take a rose.


The Bachelorettes:

Rikae: Someone I need to pay more attention to. But the suspicions she's made so far are pretty reasonable...the latest one about Lal was pretty interesting.

Nerwen: She's been slipping under my radar. Better go back and have a look at her.

Feanor of the Peredhil: Fea, why do you scare me so much? Perhaps because I know you can be quite the sneaky wolf. She's someone I want to watch carefully, but I won't be too hasty to vote for her. See, I do learn from past mistakes...

satansaloser2005: I agree that her vote was definitely the most suspicious of Day 1. But it isn't just the vote...I agree with Boromir; her behaviour feels a bit furry to me. She's another that I want to take a closer look at tomorrow.

Brinniel: Well, I know I'm innocent and I don't plan on self-voting. So I'll give myself a rose. :D

Mithalwen: Her vote looked very innocentish and so does her behaviour. I think she's probably innocent. You can have a rose too.

Isabellkya: Again, another innocent looking vote for CoD. Like I said, I don't want to completely forget about those voters just in case...but I think it'd be foolish to vote for any of them toDay. So take a rose Izzy...I'm not voting for you.

Lalwende: Another that's been slipping under my radar. I haven't seen anything terribly alarming about her, but I do want to have a look.


A Summary:

Possible Wolf
Nogrod
Sally

No Idea
Boromir
Nilpaurion
Gwathagor
Shasta
Rikae
Nerwen
Fea
Lalwende

Probably Innocent
McCaber
Mac
Brinn
Mithalwen
Izzy

Yeah...I need some work on that list. Too many people in the middle section.

So who else will get a rose and who will be the ill-fated one I choose to "send home"? Stay tuned...

[Brinniel]

Kath? Why Kath? Random much....
Careful with what you say. Apparently if you question the reasons behind Kath's death, Nogrod will think you're a wolf. ;)

[Gwathagor]

Nogrod needs a closer look. I've left out all the idle chatter and most of the smileys (there were too many).

I'm getting interesting readings of the tribal-phase of the evolution...

It is about 4½ hours from the devious act of butchery.

There has been 16 acts of speaking by 7 persons out of 17.

All the speech-acts have been more or less banterish / introverted / in-character.

The only deviations from the rule - even if they could be counted in the class of banter as well are...

Boro throwing a light one on Fea.

Boro throwing a light one on me + saying Fea is innocent.

Mith saying my posting is a worrying sign.


Those who have not deviated from the IC-talk are: Lalwendë, Macalaure, Fea, CoD

* I'm counting this post of mine into the category with Boro & Mith eg. not only IC.*


Yes. It's early and all the rest. Nothing to say at this moment. Sure. But as I need to go to bed and I'm having a terribly busy day tomorrow I'll try to say at least something.

Boro's sudden and quick change of mind with Fea is interesting. There seems to be no reason for it. If he was trying something (as an innocent) he would have let time pass and get some feedback but now he turned his tail after one banterish reply. I mean people do have fun and they should. But there are always things behind your rants and turn-arounds.

Which makes it interesting he should turn to me for the in-character accusation of wolvery in the very same post. Now why? To make me stop playing IC? Well, if it was that you succeeded it seems (although the time of the night here and my busy tomorrow have a part to play in this as well). But was it that?

Mith's happiness to throw suspicion to me is something I could have foreseen in any case, but making it conveniently just after Boro had called my name, looks interesting as well. Not impossibly ordo-Mith-like but not too reassuring either.

But then again. It would be nice and fine to just stay in-character so long as others do if one was a wolf. So I'm not thinking those who had only played IC are any less suspicious at the moment.

We shall see as the hours pass.



This post seems relatively harmless. He starts off with some basic observations, and then, after mentioning that he doesn't have anything much to say, casts suspicion on Mith and Boro (especially Boro). He recognizes that Boro was bantering somewhat, but at the same time seems eager to find a subtext behind the banter.


First. Boro asked me what I thought of Rikae's declaration of ordinariness. Well, I'm mainly interested in the motive behind that move. I mean making that kind of opening isn't exactly the most hilarious joke or the most ingenious or fresh move. So why would Rikae make it? Also it's hard to see it as a spontaneous reaction to anything (when one reacts spontaneously one may let that kind of banalities out from her keyboard) as she had known her role almost two days altready and she opened her first post with it.

Now I do sympathise with Rikae if she is an innocent indeed as I really felt relaxed and overwhelmingly happy when I heard I was innocent in the last game after a long period of special roles. But to say it aloud in your first post... So why?

I wouldn't like to lynch her for that but the declaration certainly raises eyebrows.

Never played it as my PC is too old to run it... but I am the Spore anticipator as you know... :)

Here, he talks a lot and says very little. He asks the obvious question of why Rikae would declare her own innocence, and then occupies the rest of his post with filler. He makes no helpful conclusions. Why should he post about it if he had nothing to say? A potential explanation is that Nogrod could addressing the obligatory issue without saying anything that might cause problems for fellow-wolf Rikae. Alternatively, he is just talking to himself - thinking out-loud, as it were.

At best, it is non-comittal. At worst, it is evasive.


Secondly this one from Gwath discussing Rikae caught my eye and the things he has been doing after it have raised my alarms a bit more.

Originally Posted by Gwath
At one point I would have pointed out that such a bold statement would be unlikely to come from a wolf, because it draws attention and attention is dangerous. My mistake was that I assumed that all wolves play the same way I do: low key. So, the question is, what kind of wolf does Rikae play as: bold, or boring?

(underlining mine) My first question was the following: are we now supposed to think that as Gwath now plays clearly actively (raising points about people) he is not a wolf as when wolf he (always?) plays low key? Interestingly enough his post began with suspecting Rikae somewhat just on the grounds of her trying to declare herself innocent - and now he does about the same thing himself in the very same post albeit indirectly! :)

But it gets more interesting.

Nerwen pointed out that Gwath knows about Rikae playing a wolf and wondered why Gwath bothered to ask about it? And Gwath answered:

[Here he quotes me.]
I was thinking out loud - or, rather, on-screen.

Which I find quite a peculiar one as answers go. So his question that he made about Rikae after his own indirect "I'm innocent" is somewhat fishy then? It makes me wonder at least.

But the last one is the one I got worried about.

Originally Posted by Gwath
I wish I could stick around and participate in the discussion, but I have to run off. I'll be back in time for the deadline, but I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not trying to be extra-quiet and slide under the radar. It's inadvertent.

Now comparing this with the other underlining in the first quote really sends shivers down my spine. So when he's a wolf he's quiet and now he has to explain that as he has to go it doesn't mean that he is being flying under the radar... :eek:

It seems obvious to me that Nogrod is making a concerted effort to find arguments against me where very few exist. His points can be summarized as follows:

1. Nogrod is inclined to find me guilty because I am making assertions about other people, which I profess to not doing when I am a wolf, playing "low-key." If I were a wolf, he implies, I would do the opposite of what I claim to do as a wolf. Because I am doing the opposite (i.e. I am making points about others), I must be a wolf. This, at least, is the implication.

The first problem in this argument (albeit an implied argument) is that it argues that I am a wolf based on the assumption that I am a wolf.

The second problem is that he misdefines "low-key". "Low-key" does not mean silence or lack of discourse. It means that I am careful not to draw unecessary attention to myself. Lack of discourse is obvious, and therefore not low-key.

2. According to Nogrod, it is strange for me to profess to "thinking on-screen."

However, he purports to doing much the same thing in post #163: "I'm just trying to help myself to orientate and to see where to look in the beginning toDay." There's nothing weird about this. Organizing one's thoughts by posting makes a lot of sense.

3. Because I claim to be a low-key wolf, my statement in a later post that I am not trying to fly under the radar - in other words, not trying to play low-key - looks mighty suspicious.

Actually, I agree with him here. I don't like, however, that he makes much of the chills and shivers that my post sends down his spine. Appeal to the emotion is an effective rhetorical device, but it's not helpful here.

Overall, this post of Nogrod's seems forced and exaggerative.


Mith: it is already clear that I read your post back there the wrong way as you suspecting me. So why are you coming back to it the second time?

And anyway. That was early in the Day with about twenty posts made in total (almost everyone of them being only joking & banter). I think both you Mith (explaining your post many times) and Boro (making that "empirical device" where you consider I'm one who suspects you) are making a mountain out of a molehill here. (Yes Mith, I didn't consider your posts as cross-posts and that was my carelessness not to look at the timestamps and think about the possibility. Yes.)

But your posts were the only ones there was anything even remotely looking like saying something that gets the game forwards at that point of the game. Now after people have contributed more there clearly are better points to be made - and it was obvious back then in the beginning of the Day. But your insistence on coming back to those early hour "suspicions" doesn't make me too happy about you two.

But I'm even more unhappy with those who just fly straight through the banter-radar or under any radar just not appearing or not contributing.

And I have a battle with myself about Gwath. He looks wolvish to me and I think I have plausible reasons and so I should trust my own judgement. But I've been wrong with him so many times... Unless there is a "submarine" we can agree on or any better cases to come forwards, or if I have to try and save someone I think is clearly less guilty than someone else, I'm considering of voting Gwath.



He complains that Boro and Mith should stopd dwelling on early Day 1 posts that occurred when most people were still sticking to IC banter. It's ironic that he should here mention making a mountain out of a molehill, given his last post.

He also reiterates his suspicion of me, without any new or more substantial evidence.


About 15-16 minutes more I think...

Ok.

[Then some idle chatter.]


Okay... okay... Point taken.

Now let's continue with the wolf-hunt.

Eager to lay his argument with Boro to rest.


Fili... what? Sorry. I need a dictionary... and a cigarette anyway.

Gwath anyone?

Boro, CoD & Brinn on two now. Of those I'd say Brinn might be the best choice but CoD has been annoying. Boro I wouldn't lynch on Day1 for being himself.

Here he fishes for other Gwath votes. At best, it looks like Nogrod is making another effort to argue my - or at least convince others of - my guilt. At worst, he's just trying to start a bandwagon. I am inclined to believe the latter.

If Brinn is innocent she is good to have around and I'm not too confident of her guilt right now - even if I see why she could be a wolf.

Fair enough.


CoD is the "easy" lynch and therefore probably wrong... Boro I would like to have around.

I'd say Gwath as I think his behaviour has been over-defencive to the point of being suspicious. Of others I have not as much.

What say you others?

Over-defensive? This is just plain outlandish. At this point in the game, I have not replied to any accusations leveled against me. I have replied to one question. My reply was short, prompt, and to the point. Obviously, the fact that it was a response makes it, by nature, defensive, but to call it over-defensive is making a mountain out of a molehill. Again.


I'll try it then

++ Gwath


I admire his consistency.


[Then there's a bunch of chatter around the deadline. Check it out if you like.]

Wow! Hopefully this will encourage people to lynch those who try to just slip through Day1 with nonsense in the following games. I mean if there would be that kind of general attitude the wolves (and innocents) would know they will have to actually play on Day1 as well and the game would become so much more interesting.

As I said yesterDay his playing style annoyed me but I was thinking of him as an ordo trying to get through Day1 as easily as possible to see whether he would get interested in the game later on.

Luckily many enough were ready to vote him off.


I'll summarise the few lists given here already to form myself a preliminary manual for where to look toDay.

McCaber, Isabell, Mac and Mith voted for CoD. Looking at the closeness of the race yesterDay it seems - like Brinn already commented - a bit unlikely there is a wolf among them. It's possible, to be sure but still...

CoD "suspected" Macalaure, Rikae and Boro. That was quite an early post and so he had no reason to believe he was going to get lynched. So it could be believable that those he mentioned were innocent indeed to whom he wished to point the discussion to go for. It's possible he put one of his fellows there to be sure but like Mac said it's improbable both of his mates are there and personally - at least for the time being I'm bending to think there are not even one of his mates there.

If these points are plausible - as working-hypotheses to begin with - then it would suggest that we could feel pretty safe with:

McCaber
Isabell
Macalaure
Mithalwen
Rikae
Boro

Nice list indeed. And I'd bet a lot against there being two wolves there.

So that leaves us with:

Nerwen
Feanor of the Peredhil
Nilpaurion Felagund
Nogrod
Gwathagor
satansaloser2005
Shastanis Althreduin
Brinniel
Lalwendë

And one or two wolves lurking there.

(Before anyone jumps on it: no, I'm not suggesting this is the final truth of the matter or think we should forget the above six and only notice what the rest say... No, no and no. I'm just trying to help myself to orientate and to see where to look in the beginning toDay.)

I responded to this post in #168. In summary, I agreed with his main points, but argued that Rikae or Boro is probably a wolf based on CoD's "suspicion" of them. Mac I believed (and still believe) innocent based on his vote against CoD.


Okay, who's the next one to declare innocence?

Originally Posted by Brinn
Anyway, do you really think I would kill someone on Night 2 thinking they're a possible seer just because they voted me?

But there are actually things in Brinn's posting I think merit a second look.

Originally Posted by Brinn
Anyway, do you really think I would kill someone on Night 2 thinking they're a possible seer just because they voted me?

I don't think anyone has said that. But if you're a wolf and saw Kath coming out of the blue just stating her suspicion & vote, you might think she could be the seer. And seers will have to go whatever the cost - even if it means the death of the seer frames one wolf. The seer is too dangerous not to be killed at the first possible instant.

Originally Posted by Brinn
honestly, the possibility that the seer would dream of me on Night 1 is the last thing I'd expect.

What you expect or don't isn't actually an argument in your favour in this case (or in any case). Why do you state that expectation? The more interesting part does begin right here.

So let's assume you're a wolf for the argument's sake. Now you realise that your trying to kill the seer backfired and you are exposed because someone guessed right the reason behind Kath's death. Understandably you feel an urge to purify your name and so you try to come up with every possible reason why the theory doesn't hold. Then you come up with a) I wouldn't kill someone for just voting me & b) and the seer wouldn't have dreamt of me anyway...

Now these surely might be things you could come up with and defend both of them. It's only that bringing them up together looks kind of fishy. I mean if you were an innocent you wouldn't probably think it that way, if you get what I mean.

And to add one small thing more; if you're an innocent why do you speculate about yourself being dreamt of in that fashion? If you're an innocent a seer dream means you're a known innocent by now. It's not something you should be afraid of or in need to convince others that has not happened - or that you would not expect that it has happened...

Originally Posted by Brinn
Ah yes, the ranger...I almost forgot. Perhaps that's why the wolves didn't kill those who I thought would be more obvious choices. Good point.

The classic, straight from the Werewolf handbook! Was it Hint #13 for tightening situations?

To open the Day by asking why Kath was killed and to leave an impression you had no idea is actually a sound wolf tactics as Boro already mentioned. Saying that you forgot about the ranger kind of underlines the very same thing: look at me, I have no idea why she was killed. But why would an innocent stress that so much? A wolf might feel the need to do that though...

And to add that classical "Good point" you try to help a common consensus to be built that the reason for Kath's death was her being a safe kill and not being one you thought was the seer...


Okay this is all very speculative. I admit it myself. But still it's my second best suspicion this far (Gwath still remaining my #1 at the moment).

It may be you Brinn have been framed. It may be Boro indeed is our cobbler and he has been grinning all the time he has read my post until now of course...

He makes some good points, but I disagree that the wolves HAVE to kill whoever they think the seer is right away, even if it means casting heavy suspicion on a fellow wolf.

Based on the premise that wolves have to kill a suspected seer, he suggests that Brinn had to kill Kath, regardless of potential problems it could cause her (Brinn, not Kath...) the next Day.

He admits that his argument is speculative. I agree, but I think it's still worth keeping in mind.

I'm still #1 on his vote-list.






Check my post #80 (second page, last post). It's quite compactly put there. It's not the the most solid case there could be, sure, but it's not bad as Day1-theories go.

Not the most solid, no.




Originally Posted by Gwathagor
Come on, Nogrod, you know what I think of Day 1 theories.

I do. But what you think about Day1 theories in general doesn't influence the correctness or incorrectness of any particular Day1 theory by anyone...

And believe it or not: I've been in a handful of games where indeed actual reasoning has gotten us a wolf on Day1. So you should give Day1's a bit more respect even if they oftentimes feel like randomized lottery.

The interesting fact is - just to say it aloud before going to sleep - that in villages where a majority thinks Day1's are hateful and stupid Day1's are the most random as no one really tries. And what follows from that they rarely offer too much hindsight even at the later stages if all people have done is banter and random-voting. In villages where majority goes all in from the earliest moments the Day1's are the most fruitful - and basically the ones where we have really gotten the wolves with brains and not by sheer luck.

Also it's clear that just whining about Day1's all Day1 is not actually playing them and that's unsporty and whatever. But most importantly it's good for the wolves as they can hide in the nonsense much easier than in the middle of arguments.

What I think certainly does not influence the truth of the matter. It does, however, reflect it.

And I don't whine. I grumble.



Originally Posted by Boromir88
Also, I think [B]Brin just sounds sincere and your "case" against her seems a bit forced. However, I will go back and do some re-examining on Brin if you consider taking a good look at sally.


Even if I don't get that "I'll do X if you will do Y" -kind of exchange (would you not do X if I'd refuse to do Y?), I do agree that it would be good if someone else also looked after Brinn and I'm indeed going to look at Sally tomorrow after I wake up.

My suspicions on Brinn were raised in fact on yesterDay already (Mac's points looked reasonable compared with my own feelings of her posting) but I thought they were too little to justify a Day1 lynch. But then when toDay I saw Brinn's posting I also remembered the things from Day1 and therefore felt it important enough to bring something forwards. I need to look back at the yesterDay's stuff myself as well with Brinn as I have toDay only looked at two posts from her toDay.

Ok, while it is somewhat convenient that Nogrod has apparently been suspicious of Brinn all along, this post seems relatively straightforward.



Originally Posted by Mithalwen
However - I find Gwathagor's response, to my response on his "correct me if I am wrong" re Captain of Despair baffling. How that pointing out that COD isn't an unsphisticated thinker makes me a wolf is beyond me.


Indeed. Who could make that kind of a point? I mean had Mith lied someone would have caught her from it. I mean there must be a host of people who have played with CoD many times. I've played with him a few games and can only agree with Mith about his resourcefulness. And why would Mith lie about CoD's abilities or history, how could lying in that kind of matters help her in the first place?

So who could make such a point then (Gwath's point that is)?

Someone with really original, basically idiosyncratic thinking-processes?
Someone who writes without thinking?
A nervous wolf under pressure trying to mirror anything so that people would talk of something else than him?

I think Gwath is none of the two first ones.

I'm not sure I have all the possibilities there to be sure but at least now those are the ones that come to mind.


ADD: Point taken Boro. I stressed the ifand you stressed the consider... and they are not at the same level. So you're right (darn broken English...)

I responded to Mith's question in post #190, and I think that post answers this one as well. I was not making any kind of argument against Mith. Any kind. Nogrod, however, is more than eager to jump on this opportunity to express his suspicion of me again. This argument doesn't bear examination any more than the others did: essentially, it is a false tri-lemma (am I coining a term?). He gives us three options: either I think really weird, I write without thinking, or I'm a wolf. I would like to suggest a third option: I think normally, but sometimes fail to effectively communicate my thoughts through my writing.

Overall: Nogrod banters a bit, makes some good points, posits interesting theories, and seems hell-bent on finding me guilty one way or another.

I think he is way too interested in establishing my guilt, to the point that my guilt has become the basis of his arguments against me, and, essentially, the premises are being tailored to fit the conclusion.


EDIT: Crossed with everyone since Shasta

[Nerwen]

Prior to CaptainofDespair's Day One vote, he is only mentioned in passing:

Nogrod lists him, along with Lalwendë, Macalaure, and Fea, as “Those who have not deviated from the IC-talk” (#22)
Lalwendë says of him, "No idea” (#61)
Macalaure: “*shrug*”

After the weird vote:

Oh, come on. Yes, half-random Day 1 votes aren't great, but not voting at all doesn't get us anywhere. :rolleyes:

Also, those half-random votes often bring some insights with them on Day 2, and you have just elegantly dodged that for yourself...

Seriously? No, really, you're bluffing right? This is one of those 'I'm going to let the Daleks think they can kill me but really my companion is bringing the TARDIS back in five minutes to save my behind' kind of things, right? I just find this extremely....not good.

Brin seems a little off to me, as does the Captain.

++CaptainofDespair

for cryptic remarks and other general nonsense.

Votes, but doesn't. At the same time, though, I've never played with Captain before, so I'll just leave this alone, at least for toDay.

I am off now..so, I suppose this is a throw away vote at best..

++CoD

Boro, CoD & Brinn on two now. Of those I'd say Brinn might be the best choice but CoD has been annoying.

Brinn, Gwath, and Captain D are on my list, neither of which I feel really confident voting...

I'm between Boro and Brinn myself, unless something happens in these last ten(ish) minutes. I'd like to figure out what Captain's up to so I'm not too keen on that route. Bah, I'll send this and see what time the Downs says it is, then I may comment more.

If I have to choose between the current ones it will be CoD .. something too clever clever about the day 1 thing...

I'd hate to see CoD go this early, simply because he's a fascinating specimen I've never seen before.

CoD, judging from his contributions today (no offense intended), would be the least of a loss if innocent.

++CaptainofDespair

Umm I think CoD is going to be a victim for a wolf bandwagon (Boro had 2 votes at this point himself)

CoD is the "easy" lynch and therefore probably wrong... [

It's true, Captain has been the least helpful, but that doesn't mean we have a Captain Fuzzball on our hands. I can't kill someone with good conscience when I have no idea what they're on about, at least not the first Day. (Votes Boro)

Would probably go for Shasta or Nogrod if there was a point but for bad reasons (not to lose Boro and Brin yet)

++ Captain of Despair

And here are the votes, with timing (GMT):

Rikae --> Sally (1:19 AM GMT).
Shasta --> Boro (6:42 AM)
Brinniel --> Mac (1:27 PM)
Gwath --> Rikae (1:49 PM)
CaptainofDespair --> Day One (2:29 PM)
McCaber --> CaptainofDespair (3:35 PM)
Lalwendë --> Brinniel (3:46 PM)

Last hour:

Feanor of the Peredhil --> Boro (04:02 PM) (Boro 2)
Isabellkya --> CaptainofDespair (04:41 PM) (CoD 2)
Kath --> Brinn (04:41 PM) (Brinn 2)

Last ten minutes:

Mac --> CaptainofDespair (4:56 PM) (CoD 3)
Nogrod --> Gwath (4:48 PM)
Sally --> Boro (4:59 PM) (notes that she crossed “with a host”) (Boro 3)
Mithalwen --> CaptainofDespair (4:59 PM) (CoD 4)
Boro --> Lalwendë (4:59) PM

Comments: As others have said, Sally is a little odd... she's one of the first to raise suspicion of CaptainofDespair, but then plays it down the tighter the noose gets around his neck. However, it's not as if there was a particularly good case against him.

I find Boro's behaviour most peculiar. His neck was on the line for the last hour– why didn't he vote one of the other leads to save himself? (True, I guess he couldn't have known about Sally's vote for him, but then he couldn't have known about Mith's for CoD either).

EDIT: X'd with Isabellkya, Sally, Brinniel and Gwath.
EDIT 2: Left out quotes.

[Nerwen]

Gwath, can you please fix up the tags in your last post? I can't tell what's you and what's Nogrod.

[McCaber]

Not a lot has happened here today, but I suppose I take part of that blame. Well, on to business.

Gwath sounds innocent to me. I mean, he certainly talks enough (jk, folks).

On my "possibly, nay, probably a werewolf" list goes Nogrod, for an attempt to bandwagon away from a wolf, along with Sally.

Boro, well, I'm not sure what to think about him yet, except that I should think about him.

I'm really tired, so I'll be back tomorrow.

[Nogrod]

Overall: Nogrod banters a bit, makes some good points, posits interesting theories, and seems hell-bent on finding me guilty one way or another.Now who's the one overexaggerating... :)

BUt now I think I finally understand where this misunderstanding stems from:
I think he is way too interested in establishing my guilt, to the point that my guilt has become the basis of his arguments against me, and, essentially, the premises are being tailored to fit the conclusion.Yes, I'm interested in "establishing" - well to be more precise: studying the possibility of - anyone's guilt as we need to find the wolves. One of the tested ways to do it is to look at someone's posting you feel act wolvishly and to see how it would fit were s/he a wolf. So yes, I'm looking at Gwath from the point of view of him being a wolf and seeing whether the pieces would fit (and the same goes with Brinn). I wouldn't say I'm tailoring the premises to fit but I'm trying to look at whether they do.

Before we have any hard evidence that's sadly one of the only ways to go forwards.

And there's the important added plus in that method for it always makes those who have been speculated about to react and those reactions may be very telling indeed.

So Gwath - and Brinn - I'm not particularly keen to get you two lynched as such. I'm keen on getting a wolf and you are the two I have studied a little bit because of some initial reactions of mine. YesterDay evening I was keen on getting Gwath lynched because I felt him the most suspicious, right. But if I come up with better candidates I'll be more than happy to change my focus.


OOC: I slept later than I had planned and am running to the choir-seminary now. I'll be able to post yet toDay, even if less than I hoped for.

[Lalwendë]

This I don't get at all. Why....?

There's nothing odd in pointing out I'm curtains tonight. Kath was the wolves' victim last night, she also voted for Brinn. Sadly it's such an easy kill for them to make to eat me. It will make everyone think "Oh, Brinn must be the wolf! She's killed Kath and Lal." Even if she isn't. Perhaps because she isn't. It's a gift-horse of a smoke-screen.

Bum! I'm going to have to be really, really careful who I vote for now.

[Isabellkya]

Nogrod..

Day One:
#13 - IC
#18 - Banter
#22 - Comments on Boro's quick mind change, it is interesting
Mith's suspicion of him is not unexpected, but the timing/placement is interesting.
Doesn't mind the continuous IC, as long as wolves do it as well.
#75 - IC
#78 - Replies to Boro's inquiry on his thoughts of Rikae's Ordo claim. States interested in her motive. Sympathizes with her.
#80 - Gwath discussing Rikae in post #31 caught his eye, and his actions after rang alarm bells.
#83 - Vote tally.
#96 - Directs at Mith about bringing up a misread on his part.
Is battling himself about Gwath. He looks wolfy and has reasons, but not completely sure about him - having been wrong about him before.
Will vote for Gwath if there isn't a Sub, no better cases, or if he doesn't have to try and save a less guilty one.
Unhappy with subs and non-contributors
#99 - time check
#102 - Replies to Mith's comment of being right about his paranoia.
#106 - Banter. Continue with wolf hunt.
#113 - Inquires about Gwath votes. Boro, CoD, Brin all with two. Brin is best choice, CoD is annoying, won't vote for Boro for being himself.
#123 - If Brin innocent - good to have around. Can see why Brin could be a wolf, though not too confident of her guilt.
#130 - CoD is easy, and probably wrong. Wants Boro around. Gwath over defensive. Inquires about others' thoughts.
#135 - Tries for Gwath, votes.
#138 - Questions about tie.
#141 - Boro is hero, or great bluffer.


In #113, he is shopping around for votes. I think if he really wanted to lynch Gwath, then maybe he should've delved into him a bit deeper.
He also thinks Brin is the best choice out of the three-way tie, but he hadn't made a case against her, or even really stated why. Why not?
He also finds CoD annoying - who had made a total of two posts. Why was he annoying? Lack of contribution?

In #123, he says he can see how Brin could be a wolf, but doesn't say why.

#135, he votes for Gwath. Having already stated he was unhappy with the lack of contributors, did you honestly think you were going to get the rest of the people who hadn't voted yet, to lynch Gwath? There hadn't seemed to be takers on voting for him - as you shopped a few times before actually voting. There was little time, and people left to do so. I think if anything, this was a throw away vote.


Day Two:
#163 - Thinks unlikely a wolf among the CoD voters, though possible.
Doesn't think that a wolf is among the list that CoD had suspected.
Divides everyone into two categories - probably safe and where 1 or 2 wolves could be lurking.
#166 - Wants to know who will innocent claim next.
States that Brin has said some things, which should have a second look at.
Gwath is his first suspicion, Brin his second.
#167 - Banter
#171 - Points Gwath to his suspicions on him.
#178 - Compares day one hating activity vs. theorize day ones.
Wolves can hide easier in random, day one hating days.
#180 - Replies to Boro. States it is a good idea for someone to look at Brin, and he will look at Sally.
His day one suspicions against Brin were not lynch worthy, yet combined with his suspicions of her for toDay, felt they should be brought forward.
#182 - Agrees with Mith on CoD's competency and resourcefulness.
Thinks Gwath is a nervous wolf under pressure.

I think how he pointed out that the wolves could hide easier in the more random, day one hating days - is odd to me. I think it is just, how he said it.
There are a number of exchanges between Nog and Boro - they are obvious and out in plain view - so I don't think they are wolf mates. However, it could be a very bold move.

I don't know if I would vote for Nog, but I definately have my eye on him.



Sally...

Day One:

#33 - Into, IC, Banter.
#35 - Finds Fea's wolf comment interesting.
#38 - Banter.
#69 - Disagrees with CoD's vote of Day One. Kind of does a 'wth'.
#92 - Boro, CoD, Brin, Rikae are top votees.
Boro is to together.
CoD Votes but doesn't - never played with him, so she'll leave it alone for the day.
Brin - over apologizes.
Rikae - The comment which was paired with her vote for Sally.
First choice is Boro.
#118 - Between Boro and Brin for voting. Wants to figure CoD out, not keen on voting him.
#121 - Wonders about semi-concensus on Brin.
#125 - Still considering vote.
#136 - Agrees CoD has been the least helpful, but can't vote in good conscience.
Votes for Boro.

Overall, I think there is more banter and joking around than there is discussion. But I think it is just how she is, so can't call her wolfy just because of that. I could, but that would just be silly.
She has CoD has a top votee and says she is going to leave it alone for the day. But repeatedly states it and brings him up in further posts.
If you can't in 'good conscience' vote for someone, then why would you put them on your vote list?
It seems to me, that the reasons for her vote list, are stretched and forced.
In #125 when you were still considering your vote, you said it was because of Nog's post #123. That he was speaking the truth. Were you considering because you agreed with what he said about Brin, or because you were waiting for him to make his vote?

Day Two:

#195 - Questions killing of Kath, says it is random.
Figures she misjudged CoD, and was right he looked funny.



Well, that took longer than I thought it would. I'll continue tomorrow, err later today before I head off to work. I need to go to sleep now, waaay late.


x'ed since my last post.

[Lalwendë]

I don't really find Sally shady. I think, like Boro, she is (was) a bit all over the place. There's nothing really sinister there.

Nogrod and Gwath are too verbose (that long post of Gwath's was not what I wanted to see on a Sunday morning :eek:). However verbosity can simply be the sign of a cobbler, and wolves might be less chatty to be honest. Either way, it'd be amusing for a wolf to see as they're going to finish each other off if they carry on.

In direct contrast, what about the silent ones?

CoD wasn't over talkative yesterday, nor was Kath, and both of them are dead now. It was worth taking a punt on lynching a quiet one as it turned out yesterday. And as I might be wolf meat tonight anyway, I may decide to take a wild card for my lynch vote and have a punt on someone quiet.

So I'm watching these today: McCaber, Isabellkya, Nerwen, Fea.....with Nilp most likely to be drawn out of my bag for a vote if no obvious wolves turn up.

[Boromir88]

I don't really find Sally shady. I think, like Boro, she is (was) a bit all over the place. There's nothing really sinister there.~Lal
She wasn't all over the place. She consistently said me and Brin were her top suspects, and after the initial "what the heck" reaction to CoD, she defends him several times afterwards.

She tied me with CoD. Mac's vote for CoD broke the 3-way tie and in a cross post, sally voted for me tying it back up. When sally voted she most likely thought she was breaking the tie (even if she didn't assume that she was still diverting from CoD), thus she was making a deliberate effort to save CoD and lynch me.

I admit I didn't think he was a wolf, but I didn't have a "wth" reaction to CoD's vote and then defend him through the rest of the day after saying I would let him be.

He also thinks Brin is the best choice out of the three-way tie, but he hadn't made a case against her, or even really stated why. Why not?~Isabell
Good point, and then he casts a throw away vote for Gwath. Something I'm not used to seeing from Nogrod. I remember back when we were all younger Mith going on about Nogrod's need to stay until the dead line and poll/organize the voting. And Nogrod was doing that yesterday, it's a really nice thing to at least have some order at dead line, if that person isn't a wolf. What's so strange about Nogrod, is after polling around, being involved, trying to see the options (and saying Brin would be the best choice) he chooses to stay out of the action and cast a throw away vote.

I think how he pointed out that the wolves could hide easier in the more random, day one hating days - is odd to me. I think it is just, how he said it.
I don't know how odd that is. Nogrod will say that whether he's a wolf or an innocent.

[Nerwen]

Wolf Feint Theory
If CoD was nominated by one of his fellow wolves as a feint, then it didn't work. And if that was the case, then whichever one of them did it should be clear, because they obviously weren't around at the deadline to save him. That should be easy to work out. There's Mccaber, Isabellkya, Mith and Mac. Any of those not around at deadline should be suspects, going by that hypothesis.

As somebody (Rikae?)has already said, that really doesn't make sense.

Boro cannot be a wolf or he'd have jumped onto one of those bandwagons to save CoD and not randomly voted for moi. He gave no reason to be umming and ahhing and waiting til the end for nefarious reasons, he clearly had no clue.

Or he was waiting to see who else (other than CoD) would get the most votes. Or he's the cobbler. I should have thought both of these possibilities were fairly obvious.

If Brinn is the wolf then I'm certainly for it tonight. Though of course, if she is not, then I might be anyway, as this will for sure cast her in a bad light if I get wolf-mauled so making me ideal wolf food. Either way, I might be curtains.

There's nothing odd in pointing out I'm curtains tonight. Kath was the wolves' victim last night, she also voted for Brinn. Sadly it's such an easy kill for them to make to eat me. It will make everyone think "Oh, Brinn must be the wolf! She's killed Kath and Lal." Even if she isn't. Perhaps because she isn't. It's a gift-horse of a smoke-screen.

Why do you keep saying this? How can you know what the wolves are up to?:confused:

CoD wasn't over talkative yesterday, nor was Kath, and both of them are dead now. It was worth taking a punt on lynching a quiet one as it turned out yesterday. And as I might be wolf meat tonight anyway, I may decide to take a wild card for my lynch vote and have a punt on someone quiet.


I'm never keen on people announcing they're going to vote at random. Yes, innocents do this... but it's such a ridiculously easy way out. Also, what does that first sentence mean? Kath wasn't a wolf!

[Boromir88]

Boromir88: I still see him as sensible and not very supicious. I wonder if that's partly because he's been defending me. Hmm...I have a habit of trusting people who defend me...I better be careful...~Brin
Well, I'm not looking for any sort of alliance (despite what Rikae says :p). When I have no sort of gifted information, my only hope of getting a wolf is putting my trust in certain people. I genuinely think I can trust you and Mith, and so far you've done nothing to make me think otherwise. It's not like I'm looking for some sort of tribal pact where we agree not to vote for eachother. I might not agree with who you suspect, you probably don't agree with mine, but generally I trust you're being helpful, in a good way, thus you're innocent. If you're a wolf, congrats you've fooled me, next chance our paths cross we'll see if you can do it again.

Nogrod's known for wild conspiracies/bluffs, but after going back through Brin's posts, I don't even think his suspicions against Brin have made it to the ballpark:
I don't think anyone has said that. But if you're a wolf and saw Kath coming out of the blue just stating her suspicion & vote, you might think she could be the seer. And seers will have to go whatever the cost - even if it means the death of the seer frames one wolf. The seer is too dangerous not to be killed at the first possible instant.~Nogrod
In my post 150 I specifically told Brin to check out my theory that she's a wolf, thought Kath was the seer who dreamed of her, and thus killed her; or the wolves were setting her up. You are referring to Brin's post 154, where she responds to the post I made, specifically asking her what she thought about that theory. Your insistance that Brin brought it up out of nowhere looks strange.

Understandably you feel an urge to purify your name and so you try to come up with every possible reason why the theory doesn't hold. Then you come up with a) I wouldn't kill someone for just voting me & b) and the seer wouldn't have dreamt of me anyway...

Now these surely might be things you could come up with and defend both of them. It's only that bringing them up together looks kind of fishy. I mean if you were an innocent you wouldn't probably think it that way, if you get what I mean.~Nogrod
If you're insinuating that she pre-planned the defense over night, I didn't get that impression at all. It's not like she mentioned this "defense" right off the bat, at the beginning of the day, she responded to me (it looks like about 24 minutes after I had asked).

And to add one small thing more; if you're an innocent why do you speculate about yourself being dreamt of in that fashion? If you're an innocent a seer dream means you're a known innocent by now. It's not something you should be afraid of or in need to convince others that has not happened - or that you would not expect that it has happened...
This really makes no sense, Kath wasn't the seer, and thus Brin was defending herself against my "theory," that she was a wolf and thought Kath was the seer. You're making it sound like she's been stressing "I wouldn't kill someone simply because they voted for me, and I wouldn't be a seer dream on night 1 anyway." If she was, then I'd say you raise a really good point, but the only time she has said her "defense" was when I asked her at the beginning of the day and when you've brought it up again.

Right now I'm unsure about Gwath and Nogrod. I don't like the way Nogrod went after Brin earlier today, because I think it's way out there. But I really don't like Gwath's last post against Nogrod. His primary reasons are from Day 1:

1. Nogrod is inclined to find me guilty because I am making assertions about other people, which I profess to not doing when I am a wolf, playing "low-key."
That's something he said at the beginning of Day 1, and I'm sure he'd admit were pretty weak. I mean you're not going to find any "quality" reasons to vote for someone on Day 1 and this was something Nogrod pointed out early.

2. According to Nogrod, it is strange for me to profess to "thinking on-screen."
Again something Nogrod pointed out early, and I'm not sure how that makes him a wolf.

3. Because I claim to be a low-key wolf, my statement in a later post that I am not trying to fly under the radar - in other words, not trying to play low-key - looks mighty suspicious.
Goes back to the "low-key" argument.

He makes some good points, but I disagree that the wolves HAVE to kill whoever they think the seer is right away, even if it means casting heavy suspicion on a fellow wolf.
Umm, no they do.

Overall: Nogrod banters a bit, makes some good points, posits interesting theories, and seems hell-bent on finding me guilty one way or another.
Yes, a little over-reaction there?

edit: crossed with Nerwen

[Nerwen]

Nogrod's known for wild conspiracies/bluffs, but after going back through Brin's posts, I don't even think his suspicions against Brin have made it to the ballpark:

In my post 150 I specifically told Brin to check out my theory that she's a wolf, thought Kath was the seer who dreamed of her, and thus killed her; or the wolves were setting her up.

I just want to say this: why would a Brinnwolf pick Kath as a possible Seer, anyway? Kath was the third person to suspect Brinn, and the third to vote her. She didn't say anything remotely Seerish, that I noticed.

[Lalwendë]

As somebody (Rikae?)has already said, that really doesn't make sense.

I don't suppose it would, but then I was pondering some suggestions that another wolf had voted for CoD and what implications it might have. For the record, I don't think a wolf would vote for another wolf, because I've been a wolf before and it doesn't work like that.


Or he was waiting to see who else (other than CoD) would get the most votes. Or he's the cobbler. I should have thought both of these possibilities were fairly obvious.

Yeah, Boro could be a cobbler, as he was all over the place yesterday, but I happen to think he was just a bit keen on getting stuck into the game with nowt to go on.

Why do you keep saying this? How can you know what the wolves are up to?:confused:

Again, cause I've been a wolf before. If I was one again I know I'd eat me up tonight.


I'm never keen on people announcing they're going to vote at random. Yes, innocents do this... but it's such a ridiculously easy way out.

I know, yeah.

Also, what does that first sentence mean? Kath wasn't a wolf!

She was quiet yesterday, didn't interact with anyone, therefore was an easy kill for them to make without leaving tracks.

Anyway, enough of the courtroom drama, I might take a punt on not voting for Brinn to be lynched today, despite yesterday's suspicions.

[Nerwen]

I don't suppose it would, but then I was pondering some suggestions that another wolf had voted for CoD and what implications it might have. For the record, I don't think a wolf would vote for another wolf, because I've been a wolf before and it doesn't work like that.

It does these days, let me tell you!:D

However, while wolf-on-wolf voting is now quite the thing, I think the circumstances make it less likely than usual this time. If any of the four is a wolf, it's mostly probably a.) McCaber (casts the first vote on CaptainofDespair, when several other people had already been voted– may have thought it a safe way of distancing himself from his fellow) or b.) Mithalwen (may have thought CoD was doomed anyway).

Anyway, you still haven't explained how wolves who had already voted could save their fellow at the deadline.

Again, cause I've been a wolf before. If I was one again I know I'd eat me up tonight.

And I've been a wolf before, and I wouldn't. If all wolves were that predictable, this game would be a lot easier.

She was quiet yesterday, didn't interact with anyone, therefore was an easy kill for them to make without leaving tracks..

Yes, but you were talking about her in the context of "taking a punt on someone quiet".

[Macalaure]

A bunch of comments while reading along:


Kath is a very good player who hadn't been around much. She also wasn't an obvious choice for ranger protection.

I don't agree with the latter part. The chances for a ranger to be successful are never slimmer than in Night 2. (edit for clarity: Mith's claim is correct of course, but I doubt it had a serious part in the wolves' decision)

Ah yes, the ranger...I almost forgot. Perhaps that's why the wolves didn't kill those who I thought would be more obvious choices. Good point.

It surprises me how quickly Brinn went for that latter part. It was something maybe worth remarking, but it was not an especially good point, I think.

I originally didn't think Kath was killed by Brinn. What Nogrod said in #166 is pretty much what my first impression of Brinn's #154 was, too, so I'll just refer to it here.

I can't claim that Brinn's#189 has convinced me any more. A positive thing to remark is, however, that at she doesn't try to dodge Nogrod's accusations or to divert from them.


Gwath's long post about Nogrod looks sincere to me, so I suspect him less right now. I more and more get the impression of two ordos bashing it out until both are lynched.

I fully admit I am not the worlds greatest success story as a wolf cf my reply to Boro today but I am not spo rubbish that I would have killed a packmate when there was a three way tie nearly up to the wire and a possibility of a late pact.

Actually, looking at the way everybody seems to take my innocence nearly for granted today, it wouldn't have been such a bad tactic for a Mac- or Mithwolf. A few have pointed out the unlikeliness of a wolf-on-wolf thing and I keep on not agreeing with it. Out of the mouth (or from the fingertips) of a CoD-voter, it doesn't sound good.

I don't feel good about the Fea/Shasta squabble, but I can't make my mind up about which one looks wolvish or whether it's just another ordo-ordo thing.

In my post 150 I specifically told Brin to check out my theory that she's a wolf, thought Kath was the seer who dreamed of her, and thus killed her;

This I don't understand. You said, in the same post, that you "genuinely" think Brinn is innocent. Why were you interested in bringing up a wolf-theory about someone you think innocent, even urging the one to defend herself against it? And now you're criticising the ones who didn't think her defense was a good one.

[Lalwendë]

It does these days, let me tell you!:D

However, while wolf-on-wolf voting is now quite the thing, I think the circumstances make it less likely than usual this time. If any of the four is a wolf, it's mostly probably a.) McCaber (casts the first vote on CaptainofDespair, when several other people had already been voted– may have thought it a safe way of distancing himself from his fellow) or b.) Mithalwen (may have thought CoD was doomed anyway).

Both of those scenarios are disturbingly plausible if there was a wolf-on-wolf vote. McCaber is almost silent in the game and voted early on, while that's the kind of thing Mithalwen would do.


Anyway, you still haven't explained how wolves who had already voted could save their fellow at the deadline.

By retracting and voting Boro. He'd have been a dead man for sure. Which suggests to me that none of that foursome - or at least those who weren't around at deadline time - are wolves. Not Mithalwen then. Though didn't she say something odd to Boro around that time about whether he actually wanted to be lynched?

And I've been a wolf before, and I wouldn't. If all wolves were that predictable, this game would be a lot easier.

True, but then being predictable is a strategy if everyone expects you to be predictable and instead looks up the tricksy strategies ;)

How long until deadline today then? I make it about 3 hours?

I'm thinking of voting for Nilp. Not been around and is very quiet and nobody has mentioned him. What's being hidden?

[Macalaure]

I'm thinking of voting for Nilp. Not been around and is very quiet and nobody has mentioned him. What's being hidden?

I would discourage that. The chances of being successful with lynching such a quiet one twice in a row are very small.

[Boromir88]

Alright, so I'm gonna have to vote here...

In all seriousness though, I'd like to apologize to Boromir (and I absolutely hate having to apologize, it gives me indigestion, seriously!)~Shasta

On that note, yay for his death (and an apology Boro; of the people I was considering voting, you kept jumping out at me.)~sally
Two people apologizing they voted for me. Now, I'm only waiting on you Fea. :rolleyes:

Alright, Shasta said yesterday if we were both still alive today he would come back and explain in more detail.
So I went back and looked (my Time-Turner finally came! Yay!), and in regards to my vote for Boro yesterday... what I thought was suspicious yesterday is in actuality more fluff. I thought I saw an indirect attack on both Rikae and Fea, but it doesn't look so much like that now.

...Which leads me to believe that it was Boro's latent phantomic tendencies ("hijacking" a discussion? Really?) that caused me to vote him.
Believe it or not, Fea, I actually buy this explanation. I have a tendancy to draw attention on Day 1 (that's partly my intention), and I can see why someone would think my comment about "hijacking the thread," was weird, thus that's as good of a reason as any on Day 1.

The only thing I don't quite get is why wait until today to explain it? You were under time constraints, but you were around at the end, thus could have explained yourself then. Did you want to see the outcome yesterday before giving me an explanation?

sally's apology is a little odder, because I don't get it. If you were trying to apologize for being wrong about CoD, fine, but why to me? I mean I appreciate it, but now I'm wondering who's doing the flattering here. If you were innocent and truly thought I was guilty, I wouldn't expect an apology unless I ended up lynched and proven innocent.

I'm between Gwath, Nogrod, and sally. I don't know if the stuff between Gwath and Nogrod are two innocents running in circles around eachother, or if one's an aggressive wolf. Sally for the reasons I've stated, but with her computer problems today I don't know if I want to vote for her without hearing some more.

edit: crossed with Mac oops and also Lal

[Nerwen]

By retracting and voting Boro. He'd have been a dead man for sure.

No retractable votes. (See the admin thread.)

EDIT: X'd with Boro and Mac.

[Boromir88]

Hmm...Lal might be creeping back up in my suspicions too. She's been saying some really strange stuff today (constantly saying she's going to be wolf-meat tonight?) Lal is an experienced wolf and I can't pin her behaviour as a wolf. She is making her activity known today, drawing attention to herself, so she could be the cobbler, just out to confuse us and try to turn the discussion away from the people she thinks are wolves.

[Lalwendë]

I would discourage that. The chances of being successful with lynching such a quiet one twice in a row are very small.

I'll take more convincing than that. ;) If I don't see anything else tasty I might stick to it.

No retractable votes. (See the admin thread.)

Fair dos!

Which then makes me wonder about those who did not vote....

Hmm...Lal might be creeping back up in my suspicions too. She's been saying some really strange stuff today (constantly saying she's going to be wolf-meat tonight?)

Well I am, I'm gonna be a Wolf Big Mac.

She is making her activity known today, drawing attention to herself

Just playin'. It beats doing the housework which is what I ought to be doing. ;)

[Boromir88]

If I don't see anything else tasty I might stick to it.~Lal (bold my emphasis)
Is that a Wolfreudian slip?

[Boromir88]

I must be off...and I'm going back to:

++Lalwende

There's something evil behind her intentions today, I don't know if she's feeling the pressure, or what it is, but it doesn't look right.

[Lalwendë]

I must be off...and I'm going back to:

++Lalwende

There's something evil behind her intentions today, I don't know if she's feeling the pressure, or what it is, but it doesn't look right.

You're always convinced I'm evil. I must have 'one of those faces' I suppose :(

Who is Wolfreud by the way? Sigmund's pet dog? ;)

[Rikae]

Lal might be thinking of the time she was a wolf with me, and I defended her quite vehemently right up until the deadline. However, I did that because a wolf would not normally be expected to! :D

Right now, my strongest feeling is that I don't like the way Brinn handles McCaber - and, furthermore, I don't like the way McCaber posts. I get the distinct impression she is trying to cover her bases where he's concerned (don't look like you're ignoring the possibility he's a wolf, but don't make it look like he actually is, either), while he is just poking his head in at the fringes of things, saying nothing that will elicit a response, and hoping no one notices him. Because Brinn is the more vocal of the two, I'm leaning toward voting for McCaber.

Two people that look more or less innocent to me right now are Gwath and Lal. Even though both have said things that didn't make much sense, they have been... innocently nonsensical... if that makes any sense. Everyone else, I haven't decided about. (Is Nilp on the verge of being modfired, or what?)

EDIT: X'd with Nerwen, and assorted Boros and Lals.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Two people apologizing they voted for me. Now, I'm only waiting on you Fea.

Don't hold your breath.

I see nothing but off-kilter motives in apologizing in a game where you don't know anything as an ordo. Ordinary villagers don't say "I'm so sorry!" unless they have incontrovertible evidence that they were incredibly wrong. Since a seer has NOT come forward to say that you, Boro, are innocent, then the only way that makes any sense for anybody to apologize to you is if they know your role. Not simply by intuition.

Because I know what I intuitively think you are, but that doesn't mean I'm going to apologize for any attempt I make on your life. 1) it's a game, and it's understood that it's a game. 2) why draw attention to yourself with a conspicuous display of confidence? 3) I'm not going to apologize for voting for you, because I'm highly likely to do it again.

I have to leave for work in a few minutes, and won't be back. That means a vote. And right now I'm tied between Shasta and Boro, for reasons that rationality don't yet support, but which I couldn't forgive myself for not acting on.

Let me shower and I'll vote upon my return...

[Lalwendë]

Right now, my strongest feeling is that I don't like the way Brinn handles McCaber - and, furthermore, I don't like the way McCaber posts.


I'm still fishy about McCaber. After what Nerwen said, and now after what you've just said, I have to admit he's looking shady. Plus he's so quiet it's eerie. However rather than drawing in Brinniel, I think it might implicate Mithalwen as Wolf 3, who I've felt more comfortable about than normal.

[Isabellkya]

Lalwende could be the Cobbler, and is trying to get the Ranger to protect her (in an odd way), so the wolves have a free kill tonight.

[Macalaure]

Hmm...Lal might be creeping back up in my suspicions too. She's been saying some really strange stuff today (constantly saying she's going to be wolf-meat tonight?) Lal is an experienced wolf and I can't pin her behaviour as a wolf. She is making her activity known today, drawing attention to herself, so she could be the cobbler, just out to confuse us and try to turn the discussion away from the people she thinks are wolves.

I don't like this one at all. The first part couldn't possibly be more generic ("strange stuff"). Then, as far as I'm aware, Lal is not an experienced wolf (third game, one time wolf, or do I mix things up?). This is a very old way of making someone look bad: just say that s/he is an experienced/dangerous wolf. It doesn't even need a context. Of course, you take it back right away and talk about cobblers and confusions.

I do think Rikae's and Nerwen's points against Lal have merit. This, however, along with the following vote, looks like an attempt to start a bandwaggon.

[Gwathagor]

So Gwath - and Brinn - I'm not particularly keen to get you two lynched as such. I'm keen on getting a wolf and you are the two I have studied a little bit because of some initial reactions of mine. YesterDay evening I was keen on getting Gwath lynched because I felt him the most suspicious, right. But if I come up with better candidates I'll be more than happy to change my focus.



At first glance, this looks like hasty backtracking on Nogrod's part, especially given the intensity of the suspicion in his previous posts.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

++Boromir

(who could have seen that coming?)

[Rikae]

For the record, Mac and Brinn, I said I thought Lal looked innocent. :rolleyes:
More so than either of you, in fact...

[Nogrod]

Back at last... I just need to read things...

At first glance, this looks like hasty backtracking on Nogrod's part, especially given the intensity of the suspicion in his previous posts.You should see me when I'm intensive with my suspicions... :D

[Lalwendë]

I don't like this one at all. The first part couldn't possibly be more generic ("strange stuff"). Then, as far as I'm aware, Lal is not an experienced wolf (third game, one time wolf, or do I mix things up?). This is a very old way of making someone look bad: just say that s/he is an experienced/dangerous wolf. It doesn't even need a context. Of course, you take it back right away and talk about cobblers and confusions.

I do think Rikae's and Nerwen's points against Lal have merit. This, however, along with the following vote, looks like an attempt to start a bandwaggon.

I've been a wolf just the once!

Actually, Boro could be the cobbler, spying an ideal opportunity to get my lynched following my points about how wolves pick out victims from the early nominations and how, therefore, my card are marked. And he does make the point that cobblers try and act in a confusing way - which he does!

And on that note, Isabellkya could also be one.

Where are the lurkers and shirkers anyway? Don't think you're getting away with it by hiding!

[Isabellkya]

Mith -> Gwath
Boro -> Lalwende
Fea -> Boro


o.O

I'm a Cobbler, because I said you could be?

[Isabellkya]

Voting time..

++Nogrod

[Lalwendë]

I'm a Cobbler, because I said you could be?

No, but because you say I'm trying to get the rangers to defend me. It could be a defence mechanism for a cobbler to bounce their own tricks back onto someone else who has been more active? And Boro does that too. :eek:

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Lynch me, kkthx. :p (Vzv, I'm supposed to be a god o' rain, drop the /f/. ;) )

All right, being serious . . .

Voting innocent: McCaber, Izzy, Mac, Mith

A Wolf-on-Wolf vote on DAY 1 is possible, but I don't think this one is. I'll explain in a separate post. In any case, the way they're posting toDAY corroborates their innocent auras. Speaking of posting . . .

Posting innocence: Nogrod's DAY 1 antics was rather suspicious, I would have voted for him yesterDAY (were I around then . . . ), but now his votes indicate his earnestness to get a Wolf-pelt today. He had me particularly and especially convinced with 166 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=567680&postcount=166). Which means I'll more likely vote for Brinniel toDAY. But I'll try to get something original from my mind, too, so don't worry.

Boro looks rather earnest, too, but his feeling 'chummy' with Nogrod raises my eyebrows. A bit. But he's probably innocent.

Nerwen feels innocent, too.

More later, I'll have to chew page 6 properly, first.

[Gwathagor]

Since, at this point, there's no question in my mind who I am going to vote for, I may as well do it now.

++Nogrod

His arguments against me have, from the start, been forced, illogical, and exaggerative. I find him highly suspicious.

EDIT: Crossed with Nilpaurion

[Nogrod]

I have just totally lost track with Lalwendë. For the most part of the Day I haven't got a clue what she's talking about. I mean why the insistence the wolves are willing to kill her the next Night if not for trying to get the ranger on her?

It might point to cobblerism then, as mentioned. Boro is my other candidate for cobbler but with him I'm a bit hesitant.

And anyway it's wolves we're after in the first place, cobblers should be lynched if we are totally at loss with the wolves and have a good idea of a cobbler.

I still think the points I made on Gwath yesterDay are worth considering but if you are not willing to consider them... then you are not. I'm not going to waste my vote two times in a row so I need to reconsider. But you guys should remember what I said about him when I'm gone.


EDIT: X'd with Nilp and Gwath

[Nerwen]

The Gwath-Nogrod thing...

I don't know what to think about Gwath... I can't get a read on him, and I did think his Day 1 post on Rikae was disingenuous.

But then, I'm also not keen on the way Nogrod and Mithalwen jumped on him when he said he would take Mith's word about CaptainofDespair's record, even though she "could be a wolf be as well".

How that pointing out that COD isn't an unsphisticated thinker makes me a wolf is beyond me.

Especially since he just agreed with Nogrod that it was unlikely that a COD voter were a wolf.

++Gwathagor


And why would Mith lie about CoD's abilities or history, how could lying in that kind of matters help her in the first place?

So who could make such a point then (Gwath's point that is)?

Someone with really original, basically idiosyncratic thinking-processes?
Someone who writes without thinking?
A nervous wolf under pressure trying to mirror anything so that people would talk of something else than him?

I think Gwath is none of the two first ones.

Which seems to me to be quite an over-reaction... also skirting the point Gwath was making initally, which is that it's not safe to assume people on a wolf's "suspect" list are not guilty (referring to Nogrod's "working-hypotheses" (#163) that both the people who voted CaptainofDespair and those he claimed to suspect –Macalaure, Rikae and Boro– could be assumed to be innocent).

I don't like this one at all. The first part couldn't possibly be more generic ("strange stuff"). Then, as far as I'm aware, Lal is not an experienced wolf (third game, one time wolf, or do I mix things up?). This is a very old way of making someone look bad: just say that s/he is an experienced/dangerous wolf. It doesn't even need a context. Of course, you take it back right away and talk about cobblers and confusions.

I don't like it either... especially as I had been testing Lal to see if she was going to sprout fur, and had just concluded she probably wasn't.

Who else has played with her before?

EDIT: X'd since Rikae at #229.
EDIT 2: fixed quotes.

[Rikae]

Nilp (and Brinn) what is this about Boro/Nog chumminess? Are you suggesting they are wolves together? That doesn't seem particularly likely, and it seems even less likely that, if they were, they would let any obvious "chumminess" show (in fact, I would expect one to get the other lynched, more probably).
Or are you suggesting that one is a wolf "buttering up" the other one? Does either of you have any specific quotes you'd like to point to? As it stands, this allegation of "chumminess" looks suspiciously vague and makes me uneasier about both Brinn and Nilp (especially Nilp, because he repeated Brinn's wording without adding to it, and while claiming to suspect her).

[McCaber]

All right, I'm back.

Yeah, I really don't like the way sally posted yesterDay, what with the "suspicion" of the Captain in quite a lot of posts but her vote trying to lead away from his death. (Old news, I know, but I just woke up. Give me a break.)

Between Gwath and Nogrod, I'd be more inclined to vote the latter. But right now I'd rather think they're both innocents looking for wolves in the wrong places.

[Nogrod]

His arguments against me have, from the start, been forced, illogical, and exaggerative. I find him highly suspicious.
Forced? tsk-tsk... I already told you the nature of them, testing whether they would hold. And looking at how you will react to them.

Illogical? No way. Sorry. Very much logical indeed (which doeasn't mean they are correct as the premises need to be correct for a deduction to bring forwards a true outcome - and we don't yet know the truth-value of the premises).

Exaggerative? That's in your eyes my friend. I'd like to remind you that the wolves think they're under tons of pressure when they in fact are not.

So you find me suspicious because I have suspected you? Retaliation then? If you're an inocent that's very bad playing. If you're a wolf I'd understand, but a good wolf would also know better if not under a direct death-threat.


Next stops, reconsidering Brinn & looking at Sally...

[Gwathagor]

Forced? tsk-tsk... I already told you the nature of them, testing whether they would hold. And looking at how you will react to them.

Illogical? No way. Sorry. Very much logical indeed (which doeasn't mean they are correct as the premises need to be correct for a deduction to bring forwards a true outcome - and we don't yet know the truth-value of the premises).

Exaggerative? That's in your eyes my friend. I'd like to remind you that the wolves think they're under tons of pressure when they in fact are not.

So you find me suspicious because I have suspected you? Retaliation then? If you're an inocent that's very bad playing. If you're a wolf I'd understand, but a good wolf would also know better if not under a direct death-threat.




This is no good, Nogrod. 1. I found at least three instances of poor logic and outlined them in that really big long post. 2. I call your arguments forced largely because of the poor logic. 3. However, the exaggerative element is, as you say, somewhat subjective.

Ok, lunchtime for me now. I'll see you all toMorrow.

[McCaber]

Voting time!

++sally

for reasons already explained.

Now the rush comes...

EDIT: crossed with Gwath

[Macalaure]

Worried about:
Boro(+1) - still don't like his behavior at the end of last day and has said a few worrying things today.
Brinn

Slightly worried about:
Fea(-1) - still don't know what to do with her, but I somehow feel a Feawolf would act differently.
Gwath(-1) - even though some seem to think differently, I think his posts today have looked more innocent than guilty.
Sally(-1) - her vote looks bad, but she hasn't done anything today to make me more suspicious.

Not sure:
Nilp
Nogrod(-1) - don't like his semi-throwaway vote for Gwath yesterday, but other than that, I don't see him suspicious

Not alarmed:
Lal(+1) - a bit confused about her, but not alarmingly
Rikae
Shasta

Probably innocent:
Isabellkya
McCaber
Mith
Nerwen(-2) - posted very innocently today. I had a tendency to completely misinterpret her in the past, but I won't consider that at this point.

[Rikae]

Nilp or McCaber... McCaber or Nilp... hmm....

or perhaps Macalaure, for his misbehavior this morning...

Nah, I'll punish him some other way. :p

++McCaber

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Why I believe the killers of Despair-taichou are innocent.

(Borrowing Nerwen's voting list: )

Rikae --> Sally (1:19 AM GMT).
Shasta --> Boro (6:42 AM)
Brinniel --> Mac (1:27 PM)
Gwath --> Rikae (1:49 PM)
CaptainofDespair --> Day One (2:29 PM)
McCaber --> CaptainofDespair (3:35 PM)
Lalwendë --> Brinniel (3:46 PM)
Feanor of the Peredhil --> Boro (04:02 PM) (Boro 2)
Isabellkya --> CaptainofDespair (04:41 PM) (CoD 2)
Kath --> Brinn (04:41 PM) (Brinn 2)
Mac --> CaptainofDespair (4:56 PM) (CoD 3)
Nogrod --> Gwath (4:48 PM)
Sally --> Boro (4:59 PM) (Boro 3)
Mithalwen --> CaptainofDespair (4:59 PM) (CoD 4)
Boro --> Lalwendë (4:59) PM

I agree with the chappies who say the most innocent are those who voted for him last, but there are a lot more (and less damaging) people to vote for. Wolf-on-Wolf votes, in my opinion, happen only when there is less chance of there being a bandwaggon in the Wolf's 'favour.' It could be masked as vendetta votes (either due to gaming history or disagreement with strategy or whatever reason I may have forgotten) since it's less likely that vendetta votes are followed by the masses.

Therefore, I would bet my eyes (my precious bloodline limit Sharingan) that the four are innocent.

In any case, like I said, I like the way they're posting right now.

As for my suspicions:

Nogrod's post 166 re Brinniel has convinced, like I said before. Because of this I am highly likely to vote for her.


Gwath is rather twisty. Hehe. Meaning he seems to start with the premise that Nogrod is indeed a Wolf: However, I'm inclined to be more wary of any lists of "suspects" that wolves produce, no matter what point in the game they occur. (Gwath 168 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=567682&postcount=168)) and then kinda goes on from there (198 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=567719&postcount=198)). Hey, I hate DAY 1s, too, man, but at least I listen to DAY 1 theories. Would you rather have us pulling names out of our hats? You vote for who you think the most suspicious is, no matter how you reach that conclusion. (Well, an innocent does. So far as I know . . . )

Hmm . . . his defence of this: [T]his one from Gwath discussing Rikae caught my eye and the things he has been doing after it have raised my alarms a bit more.

At one point I would have pointed out that such a bold statement would be unlikely to come from a wolf, because it draws attention and attention is dangerous. My mistake was that I assumed that all wolves play the same way I do: low key. So, the question is, what kind of wolf does Rikae play as: bold, or boring?

But the last one is the one I got worried about.

I wish I could stick around and participate in the discussion, but I have to run off. I'll be back in time for the deadline, but I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not trying to be extra-quiet and slide under the radar. It's inadvertent.

Now comparing this with the other underlining in the first quote really sends shivers down my spine. So when he's a wolf he's quiet and now he has to explain that as he has to go it doesn't mean that he is being flying under the radar...

[All underlinings by Nogrod.]It seems obvious to me that Nogrod is making a concerted effort to find arguments against me where very few exist. His points can be summarized as follows:

1. Nogrod is inclined to find me guilty because I am making assertions about other people, which I profess to not doing when I am a wolf, playing "low-key." If I were a wolf, he implies, I would do the opposite of what I claim to do as a wolf. Because I am doing the opposite (i.e. I am making points about others), I must be a wolf. This, at least, is the implication.

The first problem in this argument (albeit an implied argument) is that it argues that I am a wolf based on the assumption that I am a wolf.

The second problem is that he misdefines "low-key". "Low-key" does not mean silence or lack of discourse. It means that I am careful not to draw unecessary attention to myself. Lack of discourse is obvious, and therefore not low-key.

2. According to Nogrod, it is strange for me to profess to "thinking on-screen."

However, he purports to doing much the same thing in post #163: "I'm just trying to help myself to orientate and to see where to look in the beginning toDay." There's nothing weird about this. Organizing one's thoughts by posting makes a lot of sense.

3. Because I claim to be a low-key wolf, my statement in a later post that I am not trying to fly under the radar - in other words, not trying to play low-key - looks mighty suspicious.

Actually, I agree with him here. I don't like, however, that he makes much of the chills and shivers that my post sends down his spine. Appeal to the emotion is an effective rhetorical device, but it's not helpful here.

Overall, this post of Nogrod's seems forced and exaggerative. (Gwath)Yeah, I found his post a bit facetious, but it is DAY 1 'evidence' and is therefore entitled to some benefit of the doubt. At least it gets discussion moving in a better direction for the village, than, say, doing IC banter. But your defence was simply . . . *shakes head* All this talking about what you might do if you were one or other, what you think he might think of what you're doing, etc. (which you did twice--once yesterDAY and this now toDAY) and rehashing DAY 1 discussion (I thought you hated DAY 1s, why bring them here in DAY 2?) is just *shakes head some more*.


The Fea-Shasta affair is exactly the cloak for a Wolf-on-Wolf interaction I'm wary of. Easier to survive in your own little world, after all. The cold hard world is cruel, it bitess.

[Nogrod]

Talking about Brinn and apart from what I have said already toDay. Someone asked which were my suspicions of her yesterDay. Well basically the same which Mac pointed out: she was playing it veery carefully and backing up almost everything she said, just like a capable wolf would do - and looking at the fact how few actually have suspected her one might say she has played very successfully. If she's a wolf that is.

My insecurity comes from the fact that I opened my toDay's post on Brinn with Boro's idea of her going after the possible seer Kath last Night. Now as went back the thread I realised the situation was not so straightforwards and Boro's point had misled me on the believability of the initial suggestion.

For that reason I'd hesitate with Brinn a bit more all the time acknowledging that people can suspect a right wolf with wrong reasons as well... :rolleyes:

That leaves me Boro to watch even more closely.

And Sally as well. Her many times recounted ations from yesterDay look like trying to save a fellow. I've seen wolves giving the crucial vote to their mate to gain credibility and open saves of a fellow at the last moment so it's no good arguing over whether wolves might generally do such a thing. It's up to whether Sally was doing yesterDay or not.

[Nerwen]

Gwath is rather twisty. Hehe. Meaning he seems to start with the premise that Nogrod is indeed a Wolf:
[QUOTE]However, I'm inclined to be more wary of any lists of "suspects" that wolves produce, no matter what point in the game they occur. (Gwath 168)

Quick correction: the list in question was by the known wolf CaptainofDespair, not Nogrod.

EDIT: X'd with Nogrod.
EDIT2: Fixed quotes.

[Lalwendë]

I'm sorely tempted to vote for Boro despite being convinced he's no wolf, because he keeps voting for me.

I have just totally lost track with Lalwendë. For the most part of the Day I haven't got a clue what she's talking about. I mean why the insistence the wolves are willing to kill her the next Night if not for trying to get the ranger on her?

It would be stupid to be so obvious :rolleyes: Mind, your spat with Gwath is pretty odd, given that it makes people suspicious. So why do it? I'm not an experienced player but even I wouldn't do that. I'm sure you wouldn't be so plain about it. ;)

Definitely not worried about Brinn anyway. If she is a wolf then I will cop it later.

What about those who are being too careful too? To be honest, I'd worry about those more than I'd worry about Gwath and Nogrod.

When is the deadline?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Nilp (and Brinn) what is this about Boro/Nog chumminess? Are you suggesting they are wolves together? That doesn't seem particularly likely, and it seems even less likely that, if they were, they would let any obvious "chumminess" show (in fact, I would expect one to get the other lynched, more probably).
Or are you suggesting that one is a wolf "buttering up" the other one? Does either of you have any specific quotes you'd like to point to? As it stands, this allegation of "chumminess" looks suspiciously vague and makes me uneasier about both Brinn and Nilp (especially Nilp, because he repeated Brinn's wording without adding to it, and while claiming to suspect her). (Rikae who has never copied me.)After a more thorough reading of Boro's 208 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=567731&postcount=208) I must take the 'chumminess' comment back. I said it before (while skimming page 6) cos this: But I really don't like Gwath's last post against Nogrod. His primary reasons are from Day 1:

1. Nogrod is inclined to find me guilty because I am making assertions about other people, which I profess to not doing when I am a wolf, playing "low-key."That's something he said at the beginning of Day 1, and I'm sure he'd admit were pretty weak. I mean you're not going to find any "quality" reasons to vote for someone on Day 1 and this was something Nogrod pointed out early.

2. According to Nogrod, it is strange for me to profess to "thinking on-screen."Again something Nogrod pointed out early, and I'm not sure how that makes him a wolf.

3. Because I claim to be a low-key wolf, my statement in a later post that I am not trying to fly under the radar - in other words, not trying to play low-key - looks mighty suspicious.Goes back to the "low-key" argument.

He makes some good points, but I disagree that the wolves HAVE to kill whoever they think the seer is right away, even if it means casting heavy suspicion on a fellow wolf.Umm, no they do.

Overall: Nogrod banters a bit, makes some good points, posits interesting theories, and seems hell-bent on finding me guilty one way or another.Yes, a little over-reaction there? (Boro88) and totally failed to notice this: Right now I'm unsure about Gwath and Nogrod. I don't like the way Nogrod went after Brin earlier today, because I think it's way out there. (Boro176)