Tol-in-Gaurhoth LI: The Pain of Wargs [Archive] - Page 2

Eomer of the Rohirrim

10-11-2008, 03:19 PM

The Wargs had become more vicious this day; resentment had flared up, caused by the murderers in their midst. Legate garnered more votes than any other, and it was decided that he should die. But as his would-be executioners rounded on him, a terrifying transformation occured. Legate writhed and twisted, and he grew to a great size; becoming a form mighty and magnificent, yet also dreadful; and such a look of wickedness was in his eyes as the Wargs had never before seen. This fearsome spectre stood poised, waiting for battle. The Wargs pounced upon him, and they fought a brutal exchange. The stranger was remarkably powerful, and even all the Wargs together were struggling with him, but then they heard a deep, booming laughter, and they stopped to look at where it had come from.

Brinniel had not yet joined proceedings. She stood there, her unnatural form trembling, as if about to burst. The demented gaze she sported was proof enough that she was no real Warg. She cast aside her skin, so it seemed, and grew into a figure so similar to what Legate had become.

It cried out: "Manwë! Thou hast tried to cripple the Wargs, but how it has turned out -- they have helped me cripple thee!"

And he flung himself at his foe, a devastating collision that rent a chasm in the middle of the ancient Wargish sanctuary. Manwë had time enough to cry "Melkor!" before their clash; afterward he shrieked, a sound so terrifying some Wargs threw themselves to the ground. And then he was gone.

Melkor danced to the top of a stone pillar, looked back at the Wargs and smirked. Some gave chase, but Melkor flew off the side of the hold, down into the valley, and disappeared victorious. He had achieved his goal.

The Wargs, bemused though they were, soon began to remember their old friends Legate and Brinniel, who had been murdered by the two mightiest beings in Arda mere hours ago.

---------------------------------------------

The Living

Thinlómien
Kath
Gwathagor
Shastanis Althreduin
Mithalwen
Diamond
Gollum The Great
Rune Son of Bjarne
Gaunt

The Dead

SamwiseGamgee (Guardian)
Kitanna (Warg)
Groin Redbeard (Warg)
Nogrod (Warg)
Legate of Amon Lanc (Manwë)

Victorious

Brinniel (Melkor)

Night 4 has begun. Villains, send me a name; Seer, send me a name.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

10-12-2008, 02:40 PM

The Warg Elders were far too exhausted, after the bizarre happenings of the dusk, to look at the walls of Eomer. In truth, they missed nothing essential. They had done well to dispose of the master of the villains, he who had directed the slaughter of Wargs, including Legate of Amon Lanc -- the Warg whose form he had assumed. That despicable Manwë was ever cursed by Wargs after.

And Melkor too had been and gone, slaying Brinniel in the process, though aiding the Wargs in damaging Manwë so badly that he would never again be seen in Middle-earth. Their private war was not at an end, though it never again caught the Wargs so grievously. The Wargs knew now how the mighty thought of them.

In the morning, the Warg Elders found that more terrible things had happened: Rune Son of Bjarne had been slain, obviously with gruesome gusto. A blade was sticking through his heart, not quite obscuring the Wargish markings neath the fur on his chest: the markings were of ancient tradition in Warg magic, and their meaning was not lost on the Elders. Rune had been a Warg skilled in seeing the truth beyond the outer layer of beings of this Middle-earth; he had been one of their specially gifted: their Seer.

They later found the body of Shastanis Althreduin, who had not been seen for at least one day. He had not been murdered directly, but had indeed died of grief, at the realisation of the pain of Wargs.

---------------------------------------------

The Living

Thinlómien
Kath
Gwathagor
Mithalwen
Diamond
Gollum The Great
Gaunt

The Dead

SamwiseGamgee (Guardian)
Kitanna (Warg)
Groin Redbeard (Warg)
Nogrod (Warg)
Legate of Amon Lanc (Manwë)
Shastanis Althreduin (Warg)
Rune Son of Bjarne (Seer)

Victorious

Brinniel (Melkor)

-----------------------------------

Day 4 has begun.

Diamond18

10-12-2008, 03:36 PM

I may be particularly out of it, but I can't understand what exactly happened with Brinniel there. Did she die automatically because Legate was lynched? Does that make them some sort of "anti-lover" pair? Me not gets it. :confused:

With Rune gone this village seems doomed to debilitating silence. I'm one to talk, I know, and unfortunately I won't have time to remedy that completely. But I should be able to delay my vote to a wee bit closer to the deadline.

For now, it seems a closer read of Rune's posts are in order.

Thinlómien

10-12-2008, 03:48 PM

So, our seer dead? Not nice, not at all. But at least so is one of the baddies. (And two extra casualties on our side - not good.)

Well, at least I know what to do. First I will look through Rune's posts and see who he might have dreamt of.

Then, I will reread yesterDay's narration. I'm rather puzzled as for what Legate actually was, and how was Brinniel related to that. It didn't look like Legate was an ordinary wolf. Maybe he was some kind of a werebear? (But that Brinn thing still looks weird to me.) And then lastly I will never even half-trust that Monsieur d'Amon Lanc again. :rolleyes: But even if it looks probable that he was something else than ordinary wolf, it makes sense to check if he has suspicious connections with anyone.

edit: xed with Di

Thinlómien

10-12-2008, 04:30 PM

I think it's rather difficult to interpret Rune's posts. On Day2, his suspect list looked unseerish, but this was his list of people he won't vote:
Groin: He has this air of innocens around him. . . It is not that I agree with him as such, but it is the fact that he does not seem the least bit manipulative.

Kath: It is annoying that she is not around, but I really want her around at least for another day.

Nogrod: Because he seem very Nogrod-ish and this normaly means he is innocent, but I am probably going to change my mind later in the game. . .I mean it is Nogrod.

Gaunt:I need more time to analyse

Lommy: A mixture of what I said about Nogrod and Gaunt.

This is what he said yesterDay:
Maybe it is just the style that Mith plays that confuses me, she pops up a few times and with some small posts which are mostly uncontrovertial or at least in my view not really creating much of disciution. Anyways I will not be voting for her again today, that would not be fair unless somehthing major happens.
People I am quite confident I will not vote for today:

Mith - I have voted for her two times now and even though I stand by my decision I think it would be unwise to vote for her at this point. . . For one she is gennerally regarded as innocent so it would be a waste of a vote, secondly it would not leave much of a pattern for people to analyse should I get killed. oh and also: It is very easy to become to focused on one individual and thus become blind to what others do, so yeah I do not think it would be wise to vote for her again today.

Kath - I really like Kath as a player. . .of course there are limmits to how long I can use this as an excuse for not suspecting her.
Maybe I should add Gaunt to that list.

Of course he said other stuff too, but these quotes stuck me as most important. None of his suspicions anywhere look seerish.

I think he dreamt of Mith on Night3. That would explain his reluctance to vote her again. Then he probably also dreamt of Kath... (which would mean I've once again been wrong about stuff :rolleyes: ). Who was the third dream, then? I'd be inclined to say Groin, that "air of innocence" looks rather seerish. He could have dreamt of Gaunt too, but that seems less likely.

So, if we think he dreamt of Mith and Kath (and Groin), that leaves me, Diamond, Gwath, Gollum and Gaunt as possible wolves. How many are there supposed to be in there? At least one. Possibly two. Or even more, who knows. Anyway, right now I'm most suspicious of Gwath. Gollum looks a little fishy (haha, Gollum and fishes :D) too. Diamond has managed to slip under my radar, and so has Gaunt, but some of his posts had an innocent feel.

Now, I'm off to reread that Legate-Brinn narration and have a quick look at Legate's posts.

Gwathagor

10-12-2008, 05:31 PM

Not only did I defend Brinniel, who turned out to be Melkor (surprise!), but I also voted against our Seer. I look pretty dirty right now.

How many werewolves do we have now? I guess it has to be 3 or less, since there are only 7 players remaining, right? That doesn't seem to fit with the prophecy. But I guess we should just focus on trying to sift out one at a time.

Well - I've written all this and now I discover that I don't actually have anything useful to say...I guess I'll try to stop in and do some substantial analysis later this evening, or tomorrow afternoon.

I will say this. I'm sick of voting for obvious people that turn out to be good. At this point in time, the odds are good that I will go after somebody who's been quiet and unobtrusive, like Diamond or Gollum. Yeah, that's flawless logic for you.

Thinlómien

10-12-2008, 05:38 PM

Okay, I don't really get that Legate-Brinn stuff.

And not much to say with Legate's connections to other people either. His interactions with Gwath look a little fishy though: Legate keeps supecting but not really suspecting Gwath and Gwath keeps trusting but not really trusting Legate, or really, it's not even that simply but it looks like an elaborate dance and slightly suspicious.

Legate and Gollum are interesting. I could see it all as constructed, or then Gollum is simply innocent. Hmm... really that last attack of Legate's could be seen as a wolf attacking a fellow and thus trying to make him look innocent when he knows he's going down...

YesterDay's voting, then...

Diamond voted him first. It looks pretty innocent, but the fact that she didn't give any grounds for her vote worries me.

Mith cast the second vote on him. There were no other votes that early. This would make me think Mith wasn't Legate's fellow even if there wasn't any Rune-evidence for her innocence.

Gwath voted Rune then. If he was Legate's fellow, would he have chosen someone less widely trusted?

Rune voted me.

Gollum voted me next, tying me with Legate. Now this makes me wonder, really...

Brinn voted Legate.

Kath voted Legate next. Either a smart fellow seeing he's dying already or an innocent. This vote was rather decisive, after all. I'm inclined to think Kath innocent just based on Rune's posts anyway.

Legate voted me.

I voted Legate.

Okay. If Legate had any fellows, I'd be looking most closely at Gollum, even though Gwath, Gaunt and Diamond could very well be ones too.

So, I'm afraid this all didn't make me much wiser...

edit: xed with Gwath

Thinlómien

10-12-2008, 05:43 PM

Not only did I defend Brinniel, who turned out to be Melkor (surprise!), but I also voted against our Seer. I look pretty dirty right now.But if she was Melkor, wasn't she kind of on our side? I got that picture at last... And btw if it was anyone else that said something like this I'd be raising my eyebrows at the jumpinessbut suspicious comments like this are very gwathistic...

But I guess we should just focus on trying to sift out one at a time.Agreed.

Gollum the Great

10-12-2008, 06:20 PM

Hmm. With Rune, Legate, and Brinniel gone I have the idea Lommy is the only one who will keep up a steady flow of conersation.

This situation is horrible. I can't justify accusing most of the remaining party because of the almost total lack of evidence of any kind, except simply being quiet, like Gaunt, but then so have I been a silentish sort of player.

To another topic, I was first chased around by Legate, and now Lommy has chosen me for a target. Knowing now who Legate was, I am tending towards considering Lommy a traitor. Of course, I may be wrong and I am not making a decision off of so slim evidence as that, but I am watching Lommy. ;)

Thinlómien

10-12-2008, 06:44 PM

So, Gollum, you first mourn that everybody is too quiet and then suggest lynching someone who is according to your own words the only one who will keep up the conversation? Great logic.

:rolleyes:

I don't really understand this village and to be honest, I'm even annoyed with it. (This is not especially for you, Golly, so don't take this as a personal attack.) All the Days, only the actions of the loud players are discussed. Then, every Day, a loud player is lynched and with the exception of Legate, they've all been innocent. Then, the village just always picks a new loudmouth to lynch. On top of that, the cowardly wolves keep taking down loudmouth people as well.

Is this supposed to be a good game? A bunch of people who say nothing and just get rid of the few ones who bother to commit time to actually doing stuff.

Not very enjoyable in my opinion. You might as well lynch me next, would fit the pattern nicely, wouldn't it? And would be just as useful as most of the other lynches. And you wouldn't have to bother with anyone actually talking and urging people to post. And I wouldn't have to get frustrated. Wouldn't that make everybody happy?

:rolleyes:

Okay, I know I'm generalising and not being fair, but I really don't like this "pop in once a day and make two or three posts" tactics because it makes discussion very difficult and what I like even less that this village is so stupidly centered on loudmouths that they wouldn't notice if the silent slip-under-the-radar wolves were doing pirouettes and blowing up bombs in their shady corners.

Gollum the Great

10-12-2008, 07:04 PM

Thinlómien

10-12-2008, 07:10 PM

I mean, if we kill you, all we'll be short on will be a one-sided conversation.Obviously. So just kill me and get rid of it. :rolleyes:

But really, I feel this village is being rather unconstructive. I bet the wolves are going to win this game. :rolleyes:

Gollum the Great

10-12-2008, 07:15 PM

Oh yeah. We'd also be missing another player. Must have overlooked that temporarily.

Thinlómien

10-12-2008, 07:17 PM

Oh yeah. We'd also be missing another player. Must have overlooked that temporarily.Yes, surprising, isn't it? About as surprising as the fact we're going to miss another player anyway after today... :rolleyes:

Gollum the Great

10-12-2008, 07:29 PM

Ok. We're not getting anything done, and this may be the last time I post for several hours.

I believe innocent:

Kath
Mith
Diamond

Not sure:

Gwath
Lommy
Gaunt

Have fun.

Diamond18

10-12-2008, 08:54 PM

Well I can sort of feel your frustration Lommy, but speaking as one of the quiet ones, it's merely "real life" getting in my way -- I've had barely any time to read through the posts and once I've done that (and been forced to skim some of the longer ones) I have no time left to write lengthly well-thought out posts of my own. It's unfortunate but then we just have to play at the level we're capable of at any given time. In fact the quieter the village gets the easier it is for me to actually participate.

That said I do agree that it's somewhat silly for only loud players to be getting lynched. Wolves (or whatever the "bad guys" are in this game) are just as susceptible to real life induced time constraints, etc., so the probability of the foes in this village hiding among the silent is really very high.

Based on voting patterns yesterday I'm leaning towards Gwath or Gollum. Then there's Gaunt, who could be the perfect newbie-submarine-combo-of-doom. I will probably vote for one of those.

Gwathagor

10-12-2008, 10:00 PM

But if she was Melkor, wasn't she kind of on our side? I got that picture at last...

Oh. I guess we are Wargs. I just saw "Melkor" and I thought "Ah ha, he's bad. I'm a dummy." I hope you're right, but I'm not going to worry about it too much at this point, since they're both dead - or gone anyway.

Gwathagor

10-12-2008, 10:07 PM

It cried out: "Manwë! Thou hast tried to cripple the Wargs, but how it has turned out -- they have helped me cripple thee!"

Based on this, I think you're right about Melkor, Lommy.

And if that's the case (that Legate was bad), then Gollum has an interesting point here:

To another topic, I was first chased around by Legate, and now Lommy has chosen me for a target. Knowing now who Legate was, I am tending towards considering Lommy a traitor. Of course, I may be wrong and I am not making a decision off of so slim evidence as that, but I am watching Lommy. ;)

If Legate went after Gollum (did he? Someone should check...), then it's probably safe to bet that Gollum isn't a traitor. If.

Gaunt

10-13-2008, 04:11 AM

Hello all,

Apologies for my recent lack of participation, I have been in the process of moving into a new flat and haven't been able to get on a computer.

And a lot has happened since I last posted.

I must say I don't really understand this Melkor-Manwe thing, although obviously Melkor was pro-warg.

As for Shasta dying of grief at the realisation of the pain of wargs, I don't really get that either.

At the moment I am inclined towards voting for Gollum, basically because there have been vague suspicions directed at him for a while now.

Hopefully I can come up with better justification (or even a different vote altogether) on further reading.

Mithalwen

10-13-2008, 05:53 AM

Hi I am here and will be around a lot more later. Still trying to get my head around this but my instincts are at least holding true. I think Shasta was surely modfired?

Gaunt

10-13-2008, 06:18 AM

Is it likely that the pairs of werewolves mentioned in Eomer's prophecy are meant to describe competing pairs of werewolves? I.e. It was Melkor's mission to kill Manwe and vice versa, and that when Legate (Manwe) was lynched by the Warg vote Brinniel's mission as Melkor was complete so she left the game.

I have no experience of this game to go on, so I don't know if scenarios like this have happened before.

Gaunt

10-13-2008, 06:26 AM

And if the above is the case, is it not possible that legate went after Gollum thinking he was Melkor?

Mithalwen

10-13-2008, 06:28 AM

There have been unusual variants but I am afraid I don't often have time to follow the games I haven't played but I don't think something quite like that has happened. A weid variant on lovers (maybe Noggin was on the money for once!). However how was the kill decided I wonder... and where do we go from here?

Mithalwen

10-13-2008, 06:32 AM

And Eomer asked the villains to send a name. So we don't have a lot of scope for making errors. We have lost the main enemy but at least 2 remain. And we have lost both our gifted.

Gaunt

10-13-2008, 07:07 AM

Reading over Eomer's prophecies, I think there were two original werewolves, who were joined on the third night by Manwe (Legate) and Brinniel (Melkor). I'm not sure what the exact roles of Melkor and Manwe were - would Manwe have been able to kill as a werewolf had not Melkor successfully assisted in having him voted off?

No matter. If this was the case, then are two werewolves working together left.

So:

night 2: Samwise lynched, Kitanna killed by werewolves

night 3: Groin Redbeard lynched, Nogrod killed by werewolves

night 4: Legate (Manwe) lynched, Rune killed by werewolves, Shasta dies for reasons unknown, possibly by the moderator.

Gaunt

10-13-2008, 07:18 AM

I think the wolf kills on night 3 and 4 can be explained, but I still wasn't sure about Kitanna. Looking back, at one stage she suspected Samwise, Gollum and Gwath, but voted for Kath.

I wonder then if the two wolves are some combination of Gwath, Gollum and Kath?

Assuming Gollum is one (not that I necessarily am assuming that), then his recent list of remaining players that he thought were innocent and guilty would suggest that he and Kath are the wolves, because he listed Kath as probably innocent and Gwath as potentially suspicious. Unless it is some sort of bluff.

Gwathagor

10-13-2008, 07:40 AM

I wonder then if the two wargs are some combination of Gwath, Gollum and Kath?

Assuming Gollum is one (not that I necessarily am assuming that), then his recent list of remaining players that he thought were innocent and guilty would suggest that he and Kath are the wolves, because he listed Kath as probably innocent and Gwath as potentially suspicious. Unless it is some sort of bluff.

And by "wargs," you mean...the good wargs or the bad wargs? Because we're all technically wargs.

Gaunt

10-13-2008, 07:42 AM

After some more research, Gwath voted Kath on the first day, and Kath voted Gollum. Thus, unless one of these votes was intended to throw off anyone who pursued the line of investigation I am now pursuing (which seems unlikely), I hypothesize that the two remaining werewolves are Gwath and Gollum

Gaunt

10-13-2008, 07:43 AM

In answer, Gwath, where I put wargs I meant wolves

Gwathagor

10-13-2008, 07:50 AM

After some more research, Gwath voted Kath on the first day

That was a random vote.

YesterDay, Legate certainly did go after Gollum a bit. My initial reaction was "Ah ha! Legate is bad, so Gollum must be innocent, splendid!" Gollum had introduced the idea and I was happy to pick up on it. But, of course, that theory assumes that Legate as Manwe would have been aware of the identity of the traitor-wargs, and that he was not simply trying to throw us off. Gollum was very happy and quick to bring this up after Legate's death; it is common for the bad guys to suspect each other in order that should one of them die and be revealed, the other will appear innocent.

I am now reconsidering voting for Gollum.

Diamond18

10-13-2008, 08:54 AM

Must vote now. Interesting posts overnight -- it's good to hear from Gaunt. Since Gollum, Gaunt, and Gwath were my three choices for voting previously I'm going to go with:

++Gollum

Must dash.

Thinlómien

10-13-2008, 09:57 AM

I was afraid I'd only find a couple of posts when I come back, but I'm glad it is not so. There have been interesting points...

In fact the quieter the village gets the easier it is for me to actually participate.Well, something good in that too, then... :D My apologies if I was a little rude ealier toDay, I was a little tired and annoyed and I can't still say I'm very happy with how this village has been acting this far, but I'm positive it can get better. :)

Is it likely that the pairs of werewolves mentioned in Eomer's prophecy are meant to describe competing pairs of werewolves? I.e. It was Melkor's mission to kill Manwe and vice versa, and that when Legate (Manwe) was lynched by the Warg vote Brinniel's mission as Melkor was complete so she left the game.Actually, could be. Why not? I just can't see what purpose would it serve... I mean, if the baddies just aim to attack each other, what is our role in it? Innocent casualties? Not very encouraging...

I think the wolf kills on night 3 and 4 can be explained, but I still wasn't sure about Kitanna. Looking back, at one stage she suspected Samwise, Gollum and Gwath, but voted for Kath.
I wonder then if the two wolves are some combination of Gwath, Gollum and Kath?Hmm, would you like to elaborate how can the kills of 3 and 4 be explained? I mean, I do a gree, but I'd like to hear your take on it.
As for Kitanna, I think it's too hasty to assume people she suspected were wolves. I don't think there's anything that necessarily points at that. If we are to analyse kills or dead people's words thoroughly, I suggest looking at Rune. I already did, but surely it wouldn't hurt to have other interpretations. I might have missed something, or I could be trying to mislead you.

And concerning Shasta - he dropped out of the game.

Thinlómien

10-13-2008, 10:47 AM

Nobody but me around...?

Well, I will probably vote either Gollum or Gwath toDay, although I could vote Gaunt or Diamond too if it came to deciding between one of them and myself or Kath and Mith whom I believe innocent based on Rune's words.

As I have time and it's not a big job, I wonder if I should read thorugh all the posts Gollum, Gwath, Gaunt and Di and see if I have anything more to say after that...

Gaunt

10-13-2008, 10:55 AM

Thinlomien,

Having thought more about it since my original post that that you quoted, here is my complete theory (at present) on the setup of this game.

When the game began, there were two werewolves, working in collaboration to decide who to kill. They chose Kitanna, then Nogrod, then Rune.

On the third night, Manwe and Melkor were introduced. Now, I can only imagine Brinniel and Legate did not know they were to become these characters from the beginning, and were only told on the third night - both characters would be needed for the idea to work, and if they had been told from the beginning then one or both of them could have been lynched or killed by wolves, and it would have caused problems.

Now, as to the problem of why there would be two characters placed there only to kill each other off, i think it may be that Manwe was to act as wolf, and it was Melkor's job to track him down. This, I guess, would have become more obvious if Manwe had actually had the chance to make a wolf-kill - but through good fortune he was voted off before he did.

Hence, through chance, both of these characters were gone almost as soon as they came on the scene, leaving us with only the original two wolves.

However, as I write this some ideas have sprung to mind: perhaps, had the vote not taken out Manwe, both of these characters would have behaved like wolves, but wolves who were trying to find one other wolf - a game within a game with each of their unsuccessful guesses taking out villagers as collateral damage. I did ask myself: how would they be able to distinguish between the other wolves and their opponent? But the answer to this ties in with what I have already said: they would be looking for someone who had become a wolf on the third night, like themselves, so they would be looking for a change in behaviour from that point. In fact, this seems more plausible than the Manwe as wolf and Melkor out to track him down theory.

In answer to your question as to why Nogrod and Rune were killed: Nogrod had targeted Gollum, and generally seemed to be onto what now appears to be the type of game the werewolves are playing. As for Rune, I will have to study his posts more, but my general impression was that he was quite prominent in the posts and must have come up with some insights that were troubling the wolves.

Gollum the Great

10-13-2008, 11:06 AM

I seem to be a prime target for most of the village.

Those who seem to suspect me:

Gaunt
Lommy
Gwath
Diamond

Mith has said nothing which regards me today and Kath has not spoken yet.

Thinlómien

10-13-2008, 11:24 AM

Gaunt, I think your theory makes quite a lot of sense. I'm impressed. :D Of course we cannot know, but that's the first theory I've heard that makes any sense this far. So, our goal would now be finding two wolves that are fellows together and have no other ties?

Now, however, I would think differently about Nogrod's and Rune's deaths. I have no real idea why Nogrod was killed, but I think Rune was killed either for looking like a seer (which he was) or because no one except Gwath really suspected him.

Kath

10-13-2008, 11:27 AM

Gaunt has popped up with some really interesting theories. I'm agreeing with his idea about Manwe and Melkor, it really seems to make sense. I'm not sure how worthwhile it is basing his arguments on Kitanna's posts since she had no additional knowledge but he does seem to be working things out very logically. Oh, and on second look, he's actually basing that logic on why the wolves might have killed her rather than what she said.

I went and had a look back over Rune's post and think I found the comment that anyone looking out for a Seer would have picked up on. He mentioned leaving trails, not something ordinary innocents tend to worry about. It was subtle, but obviously a wolf would be looking for it.

Lommy's little ... snit was interesting. Perhaps just tiredness and annoyance about Legate disappearing. :p But it was a little over the top. I mean, complaining about the villagers getting rid of the loud players when it's the wolves who killed Nog, the loudest player, and the Seer. Ok we did a bad job with lynching the Guardian on the first Day but hey, we just got a bad guy yesterDay! Come on Lommy, optimism!

Thinlómien

10-13-2008, 11:46 AM

Lommy's little ... snit was interesting. Perhaps just tiredness and annoyance about Legate disappearing.:rolleyes: :D

But it was a little over the top. I mean, complaining about the villagers getting rid of the loud players when it's the wolves who killed Nog, the loudest player, and the Seer.I was merely saying that it looked like the wolves were just as pitiful as the innocents...

Ok we did a bad job with lynching the Guardian on the first Day but hey, we just got a bad guy yesterDay! Come on Lommy, optimism!Actually, I'm feeling relatively optimistic now. :) All the discussion that was going on while I was away and Gaunt's theory that makes sense have made me have more faith. And despite some drawbacks, I'm actually enjoying this game. So, no problem.

Gaunt

10-13-2008, 12:38 PM

Gollum the Great

10-13-2008, 01:04 PM

Hopefully tonight Gollum will be voted off, as between him and Gwath I am more confident of his status as a wolf

From Legate to Lommy to Gaunt!

It may be because he has not been on much, but Gollum has offered pretty much nothing in defence against strong suspicions directed at him.

I think I said previously that I have trouble stating the reasons for my suspicions, and I possess the same issue regarding my defence.

Of course, I could be completely wrong!

Believe me, you are.

Thinlómien

10-13-2008, 01:06 PM

Okay, I had a quick look at Gwath, Di, Gaunt and Golly. Didn't find much.

Hello Diamond18.
EDIT: We haven't heard from Gaunt yet toDay, have we? Gaunt? You thereYet this sounds like Gwath is not a fellow of Diamond's (he would be more careful of doing anything as random as greeting her) but could be one of Gaunt's (the careless way he mentions him).

The four hardly mention each other, and when they do, it's nothing noteworthy (except maybe that one Gwath-comment). Gollum and Gwath still strike me as more suspicious than Di and Gaunt.

But more will be clear when we know the role of even one of them.

edit: xed with Gollum

Mithalwen

10-13-2008, 01:11 PM

I hpe Gaunt is inspired rather than manipulative. Can't help not entirely trusting someone who has a clue what is going on...

Kath

10-13-2008, 01:57 PM

If Kath votes for Gwath rather than Gollum, or indeed anyone else rather than Gollum, I think this possibility remains open, but Gwath is still more likely.
Oh Gaunt! Why did you have to say that? It makes me feel like a child with a big red button, all you want to do is press it to see what happens ... or in this case vote away from Gollum. :D

But no, I have been very impressed by your reasoning toDay and am inclined to trust you. You aren't the only person to have been suspicious of Gollum either, there has been on/off suspicion of him quite a bit over the Days. I did intend to go back and look at him myself but we were catching up on weekend TV and I ran out of time a bit. I do need to vote now though so:

++GOLLUM

Thinlómien

10-13-2008, 02:17 PM

Huh, pretty silent here and only 25 minutes to go anymore... and the lynch looks rather unanimous this far, which is always a bad thing... and I must admit I too suspect Gollum the most... but not much more than Gwath. Hmmm...

Mithalwen

10-13-2008, 02:19 PM

It seems that I have lost my voice metaphorically as well as literally. I am struggling with this one and am finding hard to concentrate. But the fact is that of the people remaining the only person who I have suspected at all is Lommie but everyone else seems to assume she is out of the frame.

Don't see what is so suspicious about Gollum - he is a bit self obsessed but a lot of people are ... especially when new..... really have to decide soon as I am shivering too much to type properly...

Gwathagor

10-13-2008, 02:20 PM

Ok, I have to go home now so won't be on again today.

Here's how I think the rest of the game will go:

Hopefully tonight Gollum will be voted off, as between him and Gwath I am more confident of his status as a wolf.

Then I predict the surviving wolf will kill either myself or Thinlomien.

Hopefully though, the villagers will be convinced enough to then vote Gwath, thus rooting out the two wolves and winning the game.

EDIT: Crossed with Lommy and Mith

Now this all assumes my suspicions of Gollum and Gwath are correct. Now it is possible, but I think doubtful, that one of the wolves is Kath. If Kath votes for Gwath rather than Gollum, or indeed anyone else rather than Gollum, I think this possibility remains open, but Gwath is still more likely.

It may be because he has not been on much, but Gollum has offered pretty much nothing in defence against strong suspicions directed at him.

Of course, I could be completely wrong!

All said, tonight I am voting for:

++Gollum

You are far too certain of yourself, Gaunt. The odds are slim that you could deduce one out of two wolves, but it can be done. However, nailing both of them with one fell swoop of logic is nigh on impossible.

Besides, conspicuous lack of participation is a terrible strategy if BOTH werewolves are going to employ it. Silence can be a clever shield, but only if done in such a way that one does not attract attention. Attention gets you killed in Werewolf.

I'm watching you toMorrow, Gaunt. I don't like your self-assurance (maybe it's just too reminiscent of the phantom :p), but I'm going to hope that it's the first game syndrome. I was the same way.

I am suspicious of Gollum, but I can't help feeling that traitors have been overlooked. I also don't feel that enough evidence has been built up against him; but GtheG has evidently become toDay's default vote (read in cynical tone), and he's the only player I have given any real thought to. No shots in the dark toDay, I'm playing it safe.

++Gollum

Thinlómien

10-13-2008, 02:21 PM

Okay... let's make this a little more interesting...

++Gwath

edit: xed with Mith and Gwath

Thinlómien

10-13-2008, 02:23 PM

I hpe Gaunt is inspired rather than manipulative. Can't help not entirely trusting someone who has a clue what is going on...Well, we can't discount the option of him being a bluffing wolf, but I like his theory too much. Or then he is a wolf who is telling the truth. :rolleyes:

Mithalwen

10-13-2008, 02:25 PM

Events have overtaken me ..... so since for once I am reasonably comfortable with Kath add something to the mix....

Bit mean since I have been even quieter but she is soooooooo cunning

++Diamond 18

Mithalwen

10-13-2008, 02:29 PM

Well, we can't discount the option of him being a bluffing wolf, but I like his theory too much. Or then he is a wolf who is telling the truth. :rolleyes:

That is what worries me. Since in my last game as a wolf we obeyed Phantom's law and told the truth (apart from Boro's crazy ranger act)... we said exactly why Kath was killed and so on and it never got picked up on.... and Mithalwen's law states that certainty is the mark of a beast.... but that will have to be looked at another day. Too late for today...

Thinlómien

10-13-2008, 02:37 PM

I guess everybody has voted now...?
Let's hope we were right.... *crosses fingers*

Eomer of the Rohirrim

10-13-2008, 02:41 PM

Voting is closed. Gollum will die soon.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

10-13-2008, 02:57 PM

Gollum the Great was the one chosen today. That most youthful of the Elders, of immaculate coat and shining eyes, was deemed most likely to be evil: for as the wise philosophers have ever proven, those who choose conflict with Wargs commit the most heinous act -- that of knowingly abandoning the truth. And so Gollum was set upon by the ferocious Wargs.

Torn and ripped and gruesomely bludgeoned was the slighted Warg, a very messy end due to Gollum the Great fighting back 'gainst his slayers. But alas! when all was said and done, the corpse lay still, blood oozing over the stone floor. Manwë's humbling was not in vain, this was remembered, for every Warg whom the world lost was a mighty blow in favour of those who would swindle Middle-earth out of proper glory.

------------------------------------------------------

The Living

Thinlómien
Kath
Gwathagor
Mithalwen
Diamond
Gaunt

The Dead

SamwiseGamgee (Guardian)
Kitanna (Warg)
Groin Redbeard (Warg)
Nogrod (Warg)
Legate of Amon Lanc (Manwë)
Shastanis Althreduin (Warg)
Rune Son of Bjarne (Seer)
Gollum the Great (Warg)

Victorious

Brinniel (Melkor)

----------------------------------------------------

Night 5 has come. No talking in the village. Villains, send me a name.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

10-14-2008, 02:47 PM

The Wargs had deciphered more of Eomer's last words. Constant rambling about the point of their being Wargs, and the Pain being brought about by the enemies of Wargs, who are not Wargs. He was at pains to point that out, at least.

But also, more dramatically, on that evening they discovered that their next day could be their last: for when the villains cut the number of Elders down to their own number, they shall then be assured of victory. With two more Warg-slayings would this happen.

One had happened in the night. Mithalwen was discovered, brutally slaughtered; that venerable Warg had suffered greatly in these days, bearing the Pain heavily. She had suffered in the night too, of that the cadaver did testify. The Wargs needed desperately to be correct, but such power was tricking them. Who would prevail?

-----------------------------------------------------

The Living

Thinlómien
Kath
Gwathagor
Diamond
Gaunt

The Dead

SamwiseGamgee (Guardian)
Kitanna (Warg)
Groin Redbeard (Warg)
Nogrod (Warg)
Legate of Amon Lanc (Manwë)
Shastanis Althreduin (Warg)
Rune Son of Bjarne (Seer)
Gollum the Great (Warg)
Mithalwen (Warg)

Victorious

Brinniel (Melkor)

Day 5 is here.

Gwathagor

10-14-2008, 03:03 PM

Well. I guess we'd better get one toDay.

Gaunt

10-14-2008, 03:07 PM

That didn't go very well.

Now I don't know who to vote for.

Time for a serious rethink.

Gaunt

10-14-2008, 03:21 PM

Early thoughts:

Gwath: My suspicion is rapidly fading - given my drastically erroneous case made against Gollum and Gwath yesterday, it would have made sense for Gwath, if he was a wolf, to have lynched me or Thinlomien, who were making the strongest cases against him.

Diamond: Also made case against Gollum and Gwath, but voted early for Gollum. To influence further voting for Gollum and take attention away from himself? Possibly.

Kath: Managed to make vote for Gollum yesterday in quite unobtrusive fashion. Hmm

Thinlomien: Mithalwen was the only person yesterday to suspect her, which at first sight makes her seem suspicious. However, I think a more subtle move, if she was a wolf, would be to go for someone else and not raise suspicions by killing the only person who suspected her yesterday. Again, hmm.

Thinlómien

10-14-2008, 03:26 PM

Well. I guess we'd better get one toDay.Agreed.
That didn't go very well.Agreed.
Now I don't know who to vote for.Agreed.
Time for a serious rethink.Agreed.

:rolleyes::D

I don't think I will be voting Kath today, though. I think it looks rather clear Rune dreamt of her and found her innocent. I know it's a bit risky to trust anyone at this phase, but I need to narrow the choice somehow. If we get through toDay, I might reconsider her. Right now I'm ready to make a bet of sorts and trust her. I can't vote more than one person anyway...

So, it's Gwath, Gaunt or Di for me toDay. If I'm right with my assumption about seer dreams, I have 2/3 possibility to vote a wolf. That cheers me up a little. I could just vote randomly and it would be more probable to get it right than not get it right! :D Okay... I won't do that. I will clearly be doing some rereading toDay.

Also, everybody should try to talk and thus give evidence of their innocence or guilt as much as they can toDay. Otherwise, it's going to be a tough Day...

edit: xed with Gaunt

Gwathagor

10-14-2008, 03:29 PM

I would really like to post, but I am currently frantically writing a paper that is due in an hour or two. I'll reading along with you all though, and I'll do my best to make an appearance when I'm done.

I love small villages.

Gaunt

10-14-2008, 03:34 PM

I've been looking back to find Rune's posts suggesting that Kath is innocent, and there are a couple. What is also interesting is that Rune had suspicions towards Thinlomien.

Gaunt

10-14-2008, 03:37 PM

Right, I really have to go now but I'll be back tomorrow morning for more post-trawling.

Thinlómien

10-14-2008, 03:59 PM

What is also interesting is that Rune had suspicions towards Thinlomien.

The day he suspected (and voted) me on, he said this:
I could imagine Legate and Lommy being candidates and even though I will not write them off my list completely (of lynch candidates) I am not too thrilled about voting for either today.

It doesn't look like a dream-based suspicion, does it?

Gwath: My suspicion is rapidly fading - given my drastically erroneous case made against Gollum and Gwath yesterday, it would have made sense for Gwath, if he was a wolf, to have lynched me or Thinlomien, who were making the strongest cases against him.I kind of agree with this - or some of this at least - Gollum was the obvious choice yesterDay, yet we got wrong. Gwath would kind of seem the obvious choice toDay - so that's why I feel a bit bad about it. I'm not sure about who he would have killed, though. Often in ww games general moods change quickly, so it would possibly not have been necessary for him to kill you or me. Also, that would have put the spotlight on him - which is something he would not want now if he's a wolf. (But of course, he could have double-bluffed with that... it's an endless circle.)

I think it would have made sense for pretty much anyone to kill Mith - she was practically suspected by nobody, so the wolves were removing someone who wouldn't probably get lynched toDay.

Gwathagor

10-14-2008, 04:04 PM

Gwath would kind of seem the obvious choice toDay - so that's why I feel a bit bad about it.

This is assuming a lot. Why am I the obvious choice now?

Thinlómien

10-14-2008, 04:08 PM

This is assuming a lot. Why am I the obvious choice now?Simply, because you strike me as the most suspicious. ;) Or okay, if you want a better and more thoughtful answer, I don't know what to think right now, but of those who are now alive, I suspected you the most yesterDay. Pretty much everyone suspected you more or less yesterDay. That's why I call you "the obvious choice". Makes sense?

Gwathagor

10-14-2008, 04:12 PM

Simply, because you strike me as the most suspicious. ;) Or okay, if you want a better and more thoughtful answer, I don't know what to think right now, but of those who are now alive, I suspected you the most yesterDay. Pretty much everyone suspected you more or less yesterDay. That's why I call you "the obvious choice". Makes sense?

Hell no.

:rolleyes: Ok, maybe.

I'm going to check your facts later...

Thinlómien

10-14-2008, 04:19 PM

I'm going to check your facts later...Feel free to. I too would be interested to know if they're right... :p;)

Seriously though, I think I'm going to look through all the posts of Gwath, Gaunt and Di and maybe even write an analysis or summary out of them. We'd better not make a hasty choice toDay...

Thinlómien

10-14-2008, 05:18 PM

Ok, Mr Swordsman of Shadows (or whatever is the proper translation), you have the honour of being the first one since you're around and talking with me.

Gwathalysis

Day1
#15 nothing of interest
#16 speculates about the rules - I don't quite get his point (a good start for an analysis, isn't it :D), but he agrees with Sam and thinks there might come two traitors every Night in the first three Nights
#30 says to Kit he wasn't merely restating stuff
#73 expresses confusion over deadline
#86 votes Kath (no reasoning)

Day2
#93 summarises Day1 voting, doubts that Nog is a traitor (unless he was saving a fellow Brinn)
#96 explains his schedules (and kind of explains his vote too)
#117 suspects me for being giddy, wonders how probable it is that there's a newbie wolf
#119 greets newly arrived Diamond, asks where's Gaunt
#136 expresses his presence
#139 points out my words could be a sneaky werewolf tactic, wonders if Groin is trying to use reverse psychology considering himself and Gollum
#141 agrees (rather shockedly) with Nogrod that Groin has been talking almost solely about Nog during the Day
#178 expresses his presence
#186 votes Groin, reason: he dropped his suspicion of Nog as soon as it was questioned by others

Day3
#207 explains his schedules for the Day
#219 apologises for lack of time, votes Rune because his echoing of Legate's unfounded suspicion of Brinn is suspicious

Day4
#260 suspects he must look rather suspicious now, speculates about the number of wws remaining but thinks it's best to concentrate on just finding and lynching one at a time, says he's sick of lynching obvious people, says he may go after the quiet&unobtrusive like Di or Golly
#271 replies to me concerning Melkor's alignment
#272 says he thinks I'm right about Melkor being on the Wargs' side and that if Legate went after Gollum, he (G) is probably innocent
#281 asks for clarification for Gaunt's use of the word "warg"
#284 says his day1 vote for Kath was random, reconsiders voting Gollum based on all the Gollum-Legate stuff
#300 doesn't like Gaunt's self-assurance, says he's going to watch him the next Day, voted Gollum because he has become the default vote of the Day, doesn't even suspect him that much

Overall
Mostly, he actually gives me the imprssion of an ordinary villager. BUT there are a few note-worthy things. He does abnormally lot of "hi I'm here" posts and schedule explanations - he seems a little nervous. And furthermore, I don't like his vote yesterDay. It was too easy - he himself admits it, he doesn't bother to vote properly, but goes with the "default vote". Not very productive and somewhat suspicious. Also, he seems to have been navigating in the tides of this village almost too smoothly, which always makes me raise my eyebrows.

Well, we'll see how he stands compared to Gaunt and Di... (I will also examine the connections once I've analysed&summarised all the posts. I'm not sure how much I will get done now, though, it's getting late so I'm going to sleep at some phase...)

Thinlómien

10-14-2008, 05:51 PM

Ok, I'm doing Di next... this should be a short one.

Day1
- didn't appear at all -

Day2
#118 pops in and explains absence
#142 explains and apologises for being busy
#160 votes Brinn, gives no reasoning

Day3
#200 jokingly suggests that quiet people murdered Nogrod, says Nog was an odd kill choice and thus possibly suspected of seerdom
#201 explains her schedules
#204 suggests that a lover couple consisting of me and Legate murdered Nogrod, it is a bit unclear whether she was serious or joking
#206 votes Legate, gives no grounds

Day4
#257 doesn't understand Brinn-Legate thing, suspects this village will fall into silence, says reading Rune's posts is in order
#270 understands my frustration, speaks about being time-limited, says it's silly only loud players get lynched, is leaning towards Gwath or Gollum, mentions Gaunt too
#285 says it's good to hear from Gaunt, votes Gollum (gives no specified reasoning)

Overall
I'm afraid there's not much to say. Her tone and playfulness seem innocentish, but I don't definitely like her habit of not giving reasons for her votes. It seems slippery and even quite wolvish. Could we please have explanations now? But all in all, there's really not much to say about Di - it could be either way. In order to evaluate her wolvishness better, I have to analyse Gaunt too and then investigate the Gwath-Di-Gaunt interaction triangle. This gal just gives too little to go on.

Thinlómien

10-14-2008, 07:40 PM

If I'm not sleeping, I may as well analyse Gaunt too.

Day1
#25 speculates about the setting, says Sam's scenario of six wargs makes sense

Day2
#125 apologises for lack of participation, pities Sam, doesn't have any suspects
#127 debates on the nature of suspicion, says it would make sense for Nog to have killed Kit because then he'd be removing someone who could succesfully analyse his behaviour
#135 argues that Nogrod would try to play so that it'd be the best for him because he'd understand that the game works the best if everybody does their best to win
#145 is not going to vote Nog - wants more time to watch him and thinks Groin's case against him is flimsy
#147 is suspicious of Nogrod (who criticises silent people and attacks loud people) and thinks Groin suspects Nog for wrong reasons and rather single-mindedly yet necessarily isn't a wolf
#190 votes Groin

Day3
- didn't appear at all -

Day4
#273 apologises/explains absence, doesn't understand Melkor-Manwe thing nor why Shasta died, is inclined to vote Gollum because there have been vague suspicions towards him
#275 asks if it's probable that there are competing pairs of werewolves
#276 continues by asking if it's possible Legate thought Gollum was his archenemy
#279 summarises what has happened this far, presents a theory: two original wolves, Manwe&Melkor joined the game on Night3
#280 based on Kitanna's death, suspect Kath, Gwath and Gollum (she suspected them), thinks Gol and Kath could be fellows
#282 notes that Kath voted Gollum and Gwath voted Kath on Day1, so he would suspect a Gwath-Gollum duo
#283 clarifies his wording about wargs for Gwath
#288 expands on his theory mentiones in post 279, says it was Manwe's work to act as a job and Melkor's job to hunt him down and that now only two original wolves remain, says Nogrod died because he targeted Gollum and Rune died because he came up with some insights that troubled the wolves
#293 suspects Gollum and Gwath are remaining wolves and that either he himself or me will die on Night5, votes Gollum

Overall
He is a smart guy, no doubt, and seems innocentishly helpful and reasonable. But there are a few things that trouble me. He seems to be disturbingly aware about the rules and what happens in the game. It makes me a little suspicious. Also, he concentrates a lot in the rule talk - which is fine and useful, no doubt, but doesn't force him to actually suspect or support people. It troubles me that he voted Groin on Day3 even though he suspected Nogrod more - not that it matters per se as they were both innocent. Just an interesting tidbit.

My brain is in no state for starting to analyse any interactions now, nor will I force it to rank these three people's suspiciousness. That may well wait for tomorrow - I'll go to sleep now and I'll be back here well before the deadline.

Gwathagor

10-14-2008, 10:15 PM

Ok, Mr Swordsman of Shadows (or whatever is the proper translation),

[...]

**#300 doesn't like Gaunt's self-assurance, says he's going to watch him the next Day, voted Gollum because he has become the default vote of the Day, doesn't even suspect him that much

I translate it "Shadowblade." I don't know if that's right.

I only take issue with the ** part of your analysis. First, I said that I did suspect Gollum. Second, the overall interpretation of that post should be that even though I felt less than satisfied with voting against Gollum, hewas nonetheless the only player that I had any real grounds for suspecting, weak though they might be. I had given even less thought to the other players. Lastly, my comment regarding the village's defaulting to a Gollum-vote was written in cynicism.

Diamond18

10-14-2008, 11:34 PM

Could we please have explanations now?

I suppose -- though it's nothing that's going to please you, I can tell already....

I haven't had time to read and re-read the thread and track patterns and do analysis -- some days I've barely managed to find time to show up at all. I really wanted to be in the Warg game but it came at a bad time for really stellar play. So I crammed my votes in when I had time (at the latest possible moment before the deadline, even though it turned out to be hours before deadline time) and I've never had noteworthy reasons for voting. Not that I was going to bother taking the time to type out as I was dashing out the door. Sometimes it was just outright eenie-meenie-minie-mo (Brinn) and flimsiest of half joking vague suspicions (Legate). Gollum was the first one I actually felt sure about, and that was more from reading other people's posts about him. Yeah, Werewolf Cliffnotes is a bad idea, apparently. :rolleyes:

Well now that I've wasted some time on that which I could have spent on trying to make an informed vote choice... I just got done with a nine hour shift and I'm tired and want to go to bed and I have to vote. I won't be able to make it back before the deadline tomorrow.

++Gaunt

I don't really see Lommy's argument that Gwath is the most obvious choice today... Gaunt is a newbie and yet seemed to know a lot yesterDay about the game's workings. I don't know, at this point I'm inclined to mistrust his confidence.

Gwathagor

10-15-2008, 07:37 AM

Gwath: My suspicion is rapidly fading - given my drastically erroneous case made against Gollum and Gwath yesterday, it would have made sense for Gwath, if he was a wolf, to have lynched me or Thinlomien, who were making the strongest cases against him.

Ok, I think Gaunt is innocent. If he was a werewolf, he would be much more hesitant to change his opinion and then to tell everyone about it, particularly since there had been no immediate motivation for him to do so. What would he gain by removing a player at such short notice from his suspicion list? He only loses that voting option.

I kind of agree with this - or some of this at least - Gollum was the obvious choice yesterDay, yet we got wrong. Gwath would kind of seem the obvious choice toDay - so that's why I feel a bit bad about it.

Rubbish! Hardly anyone suspected me yesterDay. My name wasn't even mentioned more than once twice. In fact, over the course of this entire game, I have received a grand total of about two votes. This, of course, is what happens when "pretty much everyone suspected you." (I quote Lommy).

Why would Thinlomien make up strong stuff like this, only to be totally noncomittal in her analysis of me a few hours later?

Her 3 analyses concern me because of their overall uniformity. All 3 are almost exactly the same in that they carefully avoid making any irrectractable conclusions. It as if Lommy went and filed all the sharp points and interesting edges off before posting, with the result that they all make practically identical conclusions: The subject does a few suspicious things (which she relates), but her suspicions extend no farther than the degree of curiosity. So, while these analyses appear to condemn no one, they leave her a variety of voting options later on - and so, paradoxically, condemn everyone. She is afraid to commit.

++Thinlomien

Wolf #2 has to be either Di or Kath. I am leaning towards Di because while she has been extremely quiet, like Kath, she has clearly been more involved/engaged with the game - even if she's not saying anything. Kath's lack of participation is too extreme to be anything but a busy innocent.

If Gaunt turns out to be a werewolf, I am going to change my avatar.:mad:

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 08:25 AM

I don't like it all how Gwath jumps on me with rather questionable points. Looks rather furry to me...

I only take issue with the ** part of your analysis. First, I said that I did suspect Gollum. Second, the overall interpretation of that post should be that even though I felt less than satisfied with voting against Gollum, hewas nonetheless the only player that I had any real grounds for suspecting, weak though they might be. I had given even less thought to the other players. Lastly, my comment regarding the village's defaulting to a Gollum-vote was written in cynicism.Point taken. I might not have understood it the way you did. At least I didn't catch the cynicism. It looked more like wolvish fatalism to me.

Rubbish! Hardly anyone suspected me yesterDay. My name wasn't even mentioned more than once twice. In fact, over the course of this entire game, I have received a grand total of about two votes. This, of course, is what happens when "pretty much everyone suspected you." (I quote Lommy)That might be true. To be honest, I haven't checked. That was just the overall impression I got from yesterDay. It isn't necessarily correct. I find it more than questionable that you should make such an issue out of it. You look like you're just grasping at straws to justify your vote for any innocent player toDay, and maybe even convince others to join. Doesn't look good to me. At all.

Her 3 analyses concern me because of their overall uniformity. All 3 are almost exactly the same in that they carefully avoid making any irrectractable conclusions. It as if Lommy went and filed all the sharp points and interesting edges off before posting, with the result that they all make practically identical conclusions: The subject does a few suspicious things (which she relates), but her suspicions extend no farther than the degree of curiosity. So, while these analyses appear to condemn no one, they leave her a variety of voting options later on - and so, paradoxically, condemn everyone. She is afraid to commit.Again you're not thinking about what I've said but just happily using them as an excuse against me! Really. I did say I wouldn't make any overall conclusions on which ones of the three of you are wolves right then when I made those analyses because I needed to go to sleep and think when my brain was more refreshed (it was about 5am my time when I finished the last analysis). I said I'd come back to draw conclusions - you discount that happily. You're too eager to get rid of me to be innocent.

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 08:41 AM

Continuing from where I left my analyses yesterday - some comparison of Gwath, Gaunt and Di and thoughts on possible connections.

It's difficult to say who is the most suspicious of them all, happily recent posts have helped with that a little. Because I really do find Gwath's attack on me very uninnocentish. Contrary to that, Diamond's explanation of her hurries and votes looked rather genuine. Admittedly, something in her sort of non-commitedness disturbs me, and quite a lot. Gaunt doesn't strike me as particularily wolvish, but my reasoning just tells me he is quite probably one - I think it would make sense and it would definitely explain why he's so aware of everything.

I doubt Gwath and Diamond are fellows. I still think Gwath wouldn't have written "Hi, Diamond18" if they were fellows. Also, unless Gwath is a total gambler, I can't see why they would have voted different people toDay.

I also doubt Diamond and Gaunt are fellows. Why would Di have voted Gaunt now that they are so close to victory?

That leaves the Gwath-Gaunt combo, which even makes sense. It would explain why they have dropped suspicion of each other toDay.

Nicely played, guys, but I think I caught you. Ha. :D (Or then someone's really bluffing hard, or I should after all bring the Kath card back to the game aaaaaargh.)

Now I'm scared.

This seems a little too easy. Everytime I think I'm right about something in ww I'm wrong. Escpecially if it's a crucial choice.

I'm rather sure I will vote either Gwath or Gaunt toDay. At least one of them should be a wolf.

(I just got the horrible idea of a Kath-Di combo... but they would have played so beautifully that they'd almost deserve to win.)

Kath

10-15-2008, 08:56 AM

If the final wolves were myself and Di we would not deserve to win, we've barely been here! I don't think Di is a wolf because she has been here so little.

Anyway, I find myself agreeing with Gwath a bit! I don't quite know what it is about Lommy but she is really looking suspicious to me at the moment. It is quite possibly just because she's still alive.

Of Gaunt and Gwath ... I just don't know.

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 09:02 AM

Anyway, I find myself agreeing with Gwath a bit! I don't quite know what it is about Lommy but she is really looking suspicious to me at the moment. It is quite possibly just because she's still alive.I think I'm looking suspicious to you (plural) because I'm talking. :rolleyes: I mean, really, if someone talks, s/he says a lot of things you can grasp and thus it's easy to say s/he's suspicious. (From now on, I should probably refrain from flood-posting in crucial Days just to avoid catastrophes... ;))

If the final wolves were myself and Di we would not deserve to win, we've barely been here! I don't think Di is a wolf because she has been here so little.Well, maybe :D but the little you two have said has mostly seemed innocent enough.

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 09:16 AM

I was just thinking about this and I realised something - Kath, if you vote me, we will lose because Gaunt won't surely vote himself...

Not that Gaunt is necessarily a wolf either.

Kath

10-15-2008, 09:17 AM

I disagree Lommy. Because Gaunt has spoken just as much and I don't get that feeling that he's suspicious.

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 09:18 AM

I disagree Lommy. Because Gaunt has spoken just as much and I don't get that feeling that he's suspicious.I don't think he has spoken as much as I have. More than you others, though. And like I said, he has mostly talked about rules, which is rather safe for a wolf.

Kath

10-15-2008, 09:22 AM

And like I said, he has mostly talked about rules, which is rather safe for a wolf.
Really? Because I would have said he talked about a lot more than that. All of yesterDay he was coming up with theories, making decisions based on those theories, interacting with everyone and voting decisively. Any rule discussion was a prelude to all this ... no?

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 09:30 AM

Really? Because I would have said he talked about a lot more than that. All of yesterDay he was coming up with theories, making decisions based on those theories, interacting with everyone and voting decisively. Any rule discussion was a prelude to all this ... no?I agree he has talked a lot about other stuff too. But what I was trying to say was that a big part of what he has said is rule discussion and theories, which is easy domain for a wolf, because it's so neutral.

I'm not criticising his behaviour at any rate. I think he has participated a lot and played wonderfully - especially if he's a wolf, like it would seem.

Kath

10-15-2008, 09:43 AM

I'll check it out.

Right, I'm going round to a friend's house for dinner but I will be back before the deadline. Should return about half eight or nine.

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 11:46 AM

Quiet as a grave.

I wonder if that's an omen...

Gwathagor

10-15-2008, 12:19 PM

That leaves the Gwath-Gaunt combo, which even makes sense. It would explain why they have dropped suspicion of each other toDay.

Nicely played, guys, but I think I caught you. Ha. :D (Or then someone's really bluffing hard, or I should after all bring the Kath card back to the game aaaaaargh.)

She is lying through her fangs.

Notice the clever inclusion of humor to disarm the unsuspecting, and that by the end of the original post, she is treating the Gwath-Gaunt biumvirate of treachery as an axiomatic fact. Pure evil.

Gwathagor

10-15-2008, 12:20 PM

Not that Gaunt is necessarily a wolf either.

That's right, backtrack now.

Dig your pit deeper, traitor.

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 12:25 PM

Gwathagor would you please stop being single-mindedly twisting my words and try to understand me! You're being counter-productive.

I never said I'm sure you and Gaunt are the wolves. I only said it makes the most sense to me. I never treated it as a fact.

I think there's nothing wrong with me saying that Gaunt is not necessarily a traitor. I think he probably is, but how could I know for sure??

Okay, Gwathie, either you're a wolf who's playing rather dirtily, or then you are an innocent who's a bit too offended by the fact that I do honestly happen to find you the most suspicious of this lot. I have a right to that opinion, no need to get heated.

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 12:46 PM

Once I reply Gwath's nonsense accusations with sensible replies, he falls silent... interesting...

Is there anyone else who'd be for voting Gwath toDay?

If there isn't, I will have to vote Gaunt who I'm less suspicious of...

Guess what, people, I bet we're going to lose this game tonight. Hats off to the wolves at any rate. I have the feeling we will just make the wrong choice... but that is not to say we can't try.

I feel useless.

I have absolutely nothing to do before Kath and Gaunt appear. I believe rereads or further analyses won't help me anymore. I have my conception of things and it won't change if there are no new posts (Gwathagor's rants don't count because they only reinforce my picture of him as a wolf).

Furthermore, I have the nagging feeling this village will commit suicide by lynching me toDay and I feel I can't help it in any way.

Gaunt

10-15-2008, 12:47 PM

In a complete reversal of my theory yesterday, I still think Gwath is looking quite innocent. As for Di or Kath, it's difficult to be sure. Thinlomien, hmm. Now you're targeting Gwath, the other villain in the (incorrect) Gollum-Gwath theory, and me, the other main proponent (along with yourself) of this theory.

Gwathagor

10-15-2008, 12:59 PM

I never said I'm sure you and Gaunt are the wolves. I only said it makes the most sense to me. I never treated it as a fact.

quote]

There is no 'fact' in werewolf, only what makes the most sense.

[quote=Gaunt;570338]In a complete reversal of my theory yesterday, I still think Gwath is looking quite innocent. As for Di or Kath, it's difficult to be sure. Thinlomien, hmm. Now you're targeting Gwath, the other villain in the (incorrect) Gollum-Gwath theory, and me, the other main proponent (along with yourself) of this theory.

I should also point out, Gaunt, that the reason she was willing to drop you rather than me out of her theory was likely because she realized that if she did not, then you would vote against her, not me, thus thwarting her designs.

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 01:00 PM

I should also point out, Gaunt, that the reason she was willing to drop you rather than me out of her theory was likely because she realized that if she did not, then you would vote against her, not me, thus thwarting her designs.Please explain.

Gaunt

10-15-2008, 01:02 PM

Right, I have to go now and therefore I have to vote.

Di voted for me early today. I realise I probably attracted attention by putting out a strong theory yesterday, but why vote for me over Thinlomien?

Thinlomien's remarks today have struck me as a little suspicious. She's retained her Gwath suspicion and added me to that, even though yesterday I basically shared her suspicions and she agreed with my theories. I don't really want to vote her off because I don't like the idea that you get voted because you talk a lot.

Nonetheless, given all the evidence, I think she and Di are the werewolves. I will regret it if i'm wrong.

My vote:

++Thinlomien

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 01:04 PM

Oh, Gaunt, you force me to do this.

++Gaunt

Let's hope you're a wolf

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 01:07 PM

Can I make a prediction?

Kath will vote me too,
I will get lynched,
wolves will laugh,
we will lose the game.

Ah well, but it's just a game.

Not that I'm willing to give up but I just feel I can't change the course of events anymore.

Gwathagor

10-15-2008, 01:10 PM

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 01:12 PM

You demonstrated my point yourself. I called you a wolf, and now you're ready to vote me. Without Gaunt's vote on your side, you probably won't be able to kill me - and it's obvious that you're going to try to.See, I'm trying to kill you so desperately that I vote Gaunt... :rolleyes:
And Gwathagor, I really find it almost amusing that you should accuse me of retaliatory suspicion.

Gwathagor

10-15-2008, 01:12 PM

Nonetheless, given all the evidence, I think she and Di are the werewolves. I will regret it if i'm wrong.

My thoughts precisely, to the letter.

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 01:14 PM

If you are innocent, which I doubt, you will regret suspecting me. *sigh* But hey, I will get to say "what did I say...". :p;)

Gwathagor

10-15-2008, 01:16 PM

See, I'm trying to kill you so desperately that I vote Gaunt... :rolleyes:

Glad to be wrong for once. :p

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 01:23 PM

Kath, please, come and end the suffering of this miserable village. :D Both the innocents and the wolves will have more fun in the afterthread discussion, I think. Wolves may gloat freely and innocents need not to be distressed. ;)

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 01:35 PM

Oh, and congratulations, wolves. You've done a great job. :) Although, I must say this game was maybe a little unbalanced to your favour because the village has been so totally confused about your number and exact abilities since Eomer's informings were rather unclear. But that is not to say that you didn't play well. Obviously you did, as you're going to win this game now. I'm a bit sad to lose this game this late and I really hate getting lynched but I can take small comfort in the fact that you can't gloat openly yet and have to hold your horses :p since Kath hasn't voted yet - that is, unless she is a wolf herself. After all this, I wouldn't even be surprised...

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 01:42 PM

By the way, I find this rather amusing:

Post count
Thinlómien 78
Legate of Amon Lanc 35
Gwathagor 34
Nogrod 31
Rune Son of Bjarne 26
Mithalwen 23
Gaunt 22
Eomer of the Rohirrim 20
Brinniel 19
Gollum the Great 17
Kath 16
Diamond18 11
Groin Redbeard 9
Kitanna 8
Shastanis Althreduin 3
SamwiseGamgee 2

Small wonder I'm considered a horrible flood-poster... :D

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 01:50 PM

Gollum was right after all, it seems. By lynching me yesterDay you wouldn't have lost anything but one-sided conversation... everybody else seems to be mute. Little Gwathawolf doesn't dare to speak because he's so excited of his near-sure victory. Sweet. :p;)

Gwathagor

10-15-2008, 02:02 PM

I have nothing to say, and you seem to be doing enough frantic talking for all of us.

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 02:06 PM

I have nothing to say, and you seem to be doing enough frantic talking for all of us.I'm waiting for this game to be finished and I may as well talk because that way I at least have something to do while I wait. ;) Your tenseness kind of reveals your wolvishness. Too bad there was no way for you to get lynched toDay.

Kath

10-15-2008, 02:06 PM

Gwathagor

10-15-2008, 02:07 PM

Huh. Ok.

EDIT: Crossed with Kath

Gwathagor

10-15-2008, 02:08 PM

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 02:08 PM

Right - is there any point in me doing anything right now? Do we have a tie situation? What is going on? I am confused, I do not like the idea that I have the deciding vote. Please could someone let me know while I go think.There is tie. If you don't vote, I die and we lose the game. If you vote me, I die and we lose the game. If you vote Gaunt, he dies, and no one knows what happens. Hopefully, a wolf dies and the game goes on.

edit: xed with Gwath

Gwathagor

10-15-2008, 02:12 PM

:rolleyes: Spare us.

Kath

10-15-2008, 02:13 PM

And if neither of you is a wolf and the pair is Gwath and Di? Oh I do not know. Lommy or Gaunt. Lommy or Gaunt. I suspect Lommy, which in all likelihood means she is innocent. I do not suspect Gaunt. From that I have to vote Lommy. But I don't know!

How did this happen - I can't be trusted to make decisions like this!

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 02:15 PM

Kath

10-15-2008, 02:18 PM

Ha, you've been talking to Agan. :p

I know it's a game - but I don't want the wolves to win!

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 02:22 PM

I know it's a game - but I don't want the wolves to win!Then vote Gaunt and cross your fingers.

Gwathagor

10-15-2008, 02:28 PM

I think you should stop talking and let her think.

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 02:32 PM

I think you should stop talking and let her think.That was not nice of you, Gwath. If I was talking instead of being silent I'd be posting much more. I'd add a few more words, but I won't, because I agree we should let her think (and not quarrel with each other because our opinions seem rather clear).

Kath

10-15-2008, 02:34 PM

Thinlómien

10-15-2008, 02:39 PM

++LOMMY

Ok, I've decided. It's gut feeling. It's not a sure one. I want to go and hide under a cushion until tomorrow morning because I will care less then if I'm wrong. If I am then I'm sorry - but I shouldn't be given this amount of power!Oh Kath, have nice time under the pillow, but know that I forgive you. :D

Congratulations, wolves. :) Well done. I won't embarrass myself by guessing your identities, but I'm still saying I bet we should have paid Di more attention after all.

Gwathagor

10-15-2008, 02:40 PM

That was not nice of you, Gwath. If I was talking instead of being silent I'd be posting much more. I'd add a few more words, but I won't, because I agree we should let her think (and not quarrel with each other because our opinions seem rather clear).

I hope I didn't sound too rude, but you were pressuring her pretty hard, and it was starting to worry me. :(

Eomer of the Rohirrim

10-15-2008, 02:43 PM

Everyone has voted. Thinlómien will die soon.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

10-15-2008, 02:55 PM

The number of Wargs was diminishing rapidly; such wisdom had been extirpated from the world so that Middle-earth itself cried. But the fate of Arda was yet in the balance, for the enemies of Wargs were nearly caught, much as their mission was nearly complete.

They circled around Thinlómien, who had a wild and argumentative glare in her eyes. She would not go down without a fight, nay! a tumultuous battle. The being who had assumed her form cast aside the image of Lommy and burst forward in a blaze of violence.

"Curse the Wargs!" it bellowed. "I am the mighty Aulë and I shall complete my mission, born as it was out of the glory of Valinor!" And Aulë tore into the Wargs.

But there were too many. Even had his comrade joined him they were outnumbered, and unable to defeat the supremacy of Wargs, and so the hidden murderer remained with the Wargs for now, and helped them vanquish the nigh-unvanquishable Vala.

Goodness! It was no wolf! It was an enemy of the Wargs; and undoubtedly the other one is also an enemy of Wargs, and hence no wolf. The prophecy was apt all along. One remained.

----------------------------------------------------------------

The Living

Kath
Gwathagor
Diamond
Gaunt

The Dead

SamwiseGamgee (Guardian)
Kitanna (Warg)
Groin Redbeard (Warg)
Nogrod (Warg)
Legate of Amon Lanc (Manwë)
Shastanis Althreduin (Warg)
Rune Son of Bjarne (Seer)
Gollum the Great (Warg)
Mithalwen (Warg)
Thinlómien (Aulë)

Victorious

Brinniel (Melkor)

Night 6 has come. No talking in the village. Villain, send me a name.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

10-16-2008, 02:41 PM

Kath was dead. That noble Warg of furious temperament and stirring rage, her of the blazing eyes and brutal sense of honour and vengeance; who had stood fully eight feet tall, on all fours, and had tasted the sweet blood of nine times a hundred worthy enemies -- she lay slain on the ground.

Now there were three.

-----------------------------------------------------

The Living

Gwathagor
Diamond
Gaunt

The Dead

SamwiseGamgee (Guardian)
Kitanna (Warg)
Groin Redbeard (Warg)
Nogrod (Warg)
Legate of Amon Lanc (Manwë)
Shastanis Althreduin (Warg)
Rune Son of Bjarne (Seer)
Gollum the Great (Warg)
Mithalwen (Warg)
Thinlómien (Aulë)
Kath (Warg)

Victorious

Brinniel (Melkor)

The final day has come.

Gwathagor

10-16-2008, 02:45 PM

Any last words, Diamond?

Diamond18

10-16-2008, 02:57 PM

I like butterflies.

Diamond18

10-16-2008, 02:58 PM

Also,

++Gwath

Gwathagor

10-16-2008, 02:58 PM

Well said.

++Diamond18

Gwathagor

10-16-2008, 10:08 PM

If you don't vote, Gaunt, I'm never going to give you a positive rep. Ever.

:p

Diamond18

10-16-2008, 11:45 PM

Heh. That would be a funny way to end the game. Though I might be the only one laughing....

Gaunt

10-17-2008, 05:55 AM

There's little left to say...

++Diamond18

Diamond18

10-17-2008, 10:54 AM

Don't you want to guess my secret identity before Eomer just tells you? Hmmmmm?

Mithalwen

10-17-2008, 11:06 AM

You are Ulmo, Lord of Waters and I claim my five pounds?

Eomer of the Rohirrim

10-17-2008, 11:06 AM

I'm sure they're dying to find out. Well, let's not wait for no reason, eh? :cool:

Eomer of the Rohirrim

10-17-2008, 11:38 AM

Gaunt and Gwathagor didn't even try to debate with Diamond. They had accused her of murder and determined to slay her with righteous vengeance. She batted them off with jests for a while, but as the rage grew in their eyes, and the battle-fury rose to an unstoppable height, she transformed from the form of the True Warg Diamond into the glorious figure of the ally of Manwë and Aulë, those bringers of Warg death. Ulmo was here.

He gave a terrible, piercing shriek, but the Wargs leapt upon him, howling with the pain of all their fellows, and especially the will of those who had been deviously slaughtered by these despicable fiends: for SamwiseGamgee, for Kitanna, for Groin Redbeard, for Nogrod, for Shastanis Althreduin, for Rune Son of Bjarne, for Gollum the Great, for Mithalwen, and for Kath; but also for Legate of Amon Lanc, for Brinniel, for Thinlómien, and for Diamond, who let us not forget were also slain and used in such a reprehensible way by the Valar: these magnificent Wargs were avenged by Gwathagor and Gaunt, brave warriors who, with great honour, tore Ulmo to shreds there in the sacred place of the Wargs. And so this tale has been preserved, by the friends and descendents of Gwathagor and of Gaunt.

----------------------------------------------

The Dead

SamwiseGamgee (Guardian)
Kitanna (Warg)
Groin Redbeard (Warg)
Nogrod (Warg)
Legate of Amon Lanc (Manwë)
Shastanis Althreduin (Warg)
Rune Son of Bjarne (Seer)
Gollum the Great (Warg)
Mithalwen (Warg)
Thinlómien (Aulë)
Kath (Warg)
Diamond (Ulmo)

Victorious

Brinniel (Melkor)
Gwathagor (Warg)
Gaunt (Warg)

The End

Mithalwen

10-18-2008, 11:18 AM

Now master Eomer - please will you explain what was going on with the prophecies and particularly Melkor?

Eomer of the Rohirrim

10-18-2008, 12:10 PM

I don't know what to say. The narration seemed pretty obvious to me. :p

Mithalwen

10-18-2008, 12:46 PM

But would something have happened on the third day if Manwe hadn't been lynched? Would Melkor have started killing on his/her own account. All that pair stuff was doing my head in....

And who did Rune dream of. Did he dream of me? I thought my game was over when he was killed and shown to be the seer.

Legate of Amon Lanc

10-18-2008, 02:01 PM

Indeed, Eomer, I believe perhaps some more elaboration would be good for us simple-minded ones :) All I can tell you other folks is that at the moment I became Manwë - at the beginning of Day 3, until then, I was a perfectly normal Ordo who had no idea what is going to happen - I was given the identity of the two other "baddies" and could talk to them. Not that it remained for long... but I had no idea about Brinniel, nor about any bond between us, and I would like to know what was Brinniel's role.

Anyway, besides that, a nice game, Eomer - and these prophecies and other things just made it more interesting :) (although a little confusing...) And it was nice to play with all of you others too, although I have to add, it would have been far, far better had people participated more in this game (already from the beginning). WW is indeed about discussion and not about silence...

And just a last thing, I must say it was very, very, very unfortunate that I was already suspected quite enough already as an Ordo ( :rolleyes: ) so I was lynched quite easily. See? How unjust! Suspected, while innocent; and when guilty at last, lynched for something I even haven't done! - Because from large part, I was lynched for something I did when innocent! How rude!

Eomer of the Rohirrim

10-18-2008, 02:31 PM

Indeed, I have a couple of regrets about this game, both of which were understandable and difficult to avoid, though. It was a shame some players couldn't participate more, but really this can't be helped; it happens sometimes.

Also about the Manwë and Melkor idea. It would have been nice to see them survive longer than one day. Unfortunately my options were very limited, because some people couldn't be relied upon to participate, and also I didn't want to pick anyone Rune had dreamed about. I had hoped for a bit of a chase, actually, with Legate slowly realising he was under attack from an unknown source; however, as it happened Brinniel didn't have to do anything to get the victory.

I was actually worried when those two disappeared, that the game would be a wash-out. Thankfully, it survived, and the players made it work. :)

A couple of points about specific players. I've been sad this whole time that Samwise was killed the first day. As a couple of you may know, he is one of the pillars of the Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation thread, and this game was designed partly to entertain him! Conversely, delighted that my friend Gaunt gained such success on his first Werewolf outing.

Mith, I'm sure Rune will be happy to tell you about his Seer escapades. Yes, he discovered your innocence.

Oh, and one other thing: they were not wolves. You people really need to get into the spirit of the story. :p

Legate of Amon Lanc

10-18-2008, 02:35 PM

Well, and also, with the cry "where is everybody", I am sure we are waiting to know things like:

- Who did Rune dream about? (Excellent job anyway, btw. And just so that you know, it was me who nailed you, to warm my own soup a bit ;) and I gave you away to the Wolves - they did not have a clue about who might be the Seer - or so I heard - but I suspected you from being something special, and possibly rather Seer than anything else, from the start.)
- Why did Wolves pick the ones they picked? (Okay, now Lommy is not around, but hopefully tomorrow by this time or after that, or if Di is around and has some spare time, she could tell us.)

Oh, and apologies to our poor Ranger :( You see, at lest I really thought you a Wolf... that's what happens when the village is too democratic yet too undecided ;)

EDIT: x-ed with Eomer. Yup, and okay, substitue "Wolves" for "nassty Valar"... But hey, you still did not actually say what was Melkor supposed to do! Or, respectively, what were his powers! And what he knew! And what was his objective! I mean, come on!

Eomer of the Rohirrim

10-18-2008, 04:32 PM

Brinniel knew that you were Manwë, Legate. Her sole objective was to get you lynched. As it happened, it was a non-event because the village had decided to kill you anyway.

I also thought Rune did a great job as Seer. His information regarding Mith and Kath was very clear to the village. Kudos, then, to you Legate for catching him, even though he had done significant damage already.

Brinniel

10-18-2008, 06:04 PM

To be specific, this is the PM I was given:

Brinniel, your role has changed. The Warg whose character you were playing has been slain in the night by 'he who shadows the master' -- the Dark Lord himself, Melkor! You are now playing the role of Melkor.

Your one aim in this game is to kill, or otherwise cripple, the one you have been stalking all this time: Manwë, who has entered the game this night too. He has slain the Warg known as 'Legate' and assumed his form.

Once you bring about Legate's downfall, by manipulating the Wargs to lynch him, the game will be finished for you, and be considered a great success.

Manwë knows not that Melkor is present in the village. You are hidden from him.

So yeah, once my role was changed my entire focus went towards getting Legate lynched. While I knew his role, I had no idea what tasks that role involved, only that he had no idea about me. Once the Day began, it was pretty easy to get Legate lynched; I admit I really didn't have to do any convincing...the village was already pretty keen on lynching him. Which is why I didn't go on an all-out attack on him and instead more gradually picked up my suspicions towards him.

Anyways, it was a good game with an interesting turn at the end (just when you thought the traitors would win, we finally catch one ultimately thanks to Kath who was put into a tough situation). I do wish I could've been around more on Day 1 and 2 (sorry about that). And I must admit I was pretty confused regarding roles...after my role was changed, I wondered how many other experimental roles were out there and if anyone else would be given new roles throughout the game.

Rune Son of Bjarne

10-18-2008, 06:41 PM

and also I didn't want to pick anyone Rune had dreamed about.

This bothered me a great deal and was the main reason I did not want to reveal my role, I was unsure about people I had dreamt about being transformed.

Night1: Groin
Night2: Kath
Night3: Mith
Night4: Gaunt

(I think that was how it went)
The night I was killed I realised that Lommy was most likely an enemy of the wargs, even so I did not want to dream about her. My plan was to dream about people that was either relatively quiet or people I might have a baised oppinion about. I did not want to dream about people like Legate, Lommy and Nogrod as they where the most likely to be killed by either village or enemy of the wargs.

I am very sorry that I failed you all and especially Groin, by not being able to save him from being lynched. . . but I really had no opportunety to get online.

If I had survived I would most likely have dreamt about Di or Gollum.

Ever since I played my first werewolf game long ago I have always wanted to be the Seer and now it finaly happened. . . I so wanted to be a great seer, but I failed.
So I never got to quote Leonard Cohen "Your servant here, he has been told, to say it clear, to say it cold: It's over, it ain't going any further"

Anyways, thanks Eomer for making me the seer, it was an amazing experience for me.

Thinlómien

10-19-2008, 12:48 PM

Well, this was a nice game, but the post-game discussion has been even more silent than the game itself...

I think this game was every now and then really quite a lot of fun, and rather ironic too. Here I was, a wolf telling the innocents who the seer dreamt of (being completely honest and even right about it) and they didn't even take my word of it. It was absurd! :D

Speaking of seerism, I have to praise both Rune and Legate. Rune managed to reveal his dreams clearly but unseerishly - I thought he was maybe a little weird and a bit too innocent, but I didn't really catch him. I needed Legate to point him out for me - and he did it rather effortlessly.

And by the way, I wanted to hit Eomer with something when I heard he had made Legate my fellow wolf (sorry, I mean Vala) - right after that ridiculously long lovers joke Nogrod had invented. It was just too bad. :D He was an excellent mate, though, a pity you stupid people ;) killed him so soon. Diamond was great too, I only wish she would have had more time. Because we did have fun, but I think we could have had even more fun.

I must congratulate Gwath and Gaunt for winning the game - you played really well, I would rather have been on your side, almost. Gaunt's werewolf debute was most impressive. And I must apologise to Kath for teasing her - I just had to. *evil grin*

As for those kills - let me first apologise to Kitanna and Nogrod, who were both playing so well and nicely. I chose them both without Diamond's help and just because they looked slightly seerish to me. (And Nogrod because of whom he believed innocent, NOT because he "suspected" me. Later I realised killing him was really bad move, but oh well, I didn't know Legate was to become my fellow back then when I picked Nog.) You know why Rune was killed and Mith's death was because she looked like a "dreamt of innocent" and because nobody suspected her.

That's my rambles for a while I guess - no, wait, thanks to Eomer for a good game... and I have to add that I too was a little displeased with Sam's going on the first Day, given how extremely rarely he plays. But a game is a game...

Gaunt

10-19-2008, 03:14 PM

Thanks to Eomer for a thoroughly entertaining first game of werewolf.

I have to admit up until the near the end my suspicions were all over the place (a day earlier Thinlomien-Ulmo had me firmly believing she was a fellow innocent!)

Groin Redbeard

10-20-2008, 12:04 PM

I have to admit up until the near the end my suspicions were all over the place (a day earlier Thinlomien-Ulmo had me firmly believing she was a fellow innocent!)
I should have gone for her right from the start instead of Nogrod. Oh well, at least she was Aule and not one of those other Valar:D, I think that I can forgive her more easily now! Great job thanks for modding the game, Eomer, and congratulations again to all the new WW players. See y'all in the next game!

Diamond18

10-20-2008, 01:43 PM

I wish I'd been able to be around more -- it's so fun to be a wo... er, Valar and yet the two times I've been one, I've had practically no time. :( The first time it worked out well because it made me a submarine wolf but this time I think it didn't go so well because I rarely had any idea what was going on. Lommy basically played the whole thing by herself (coming up with the kill choices and posting) except for the one day she had Legate. When she died I knew it was over for me since I was the only one who didn't vote to lynch her, but even if I had a chance it wouldn't have felt quite right to win without her.... Ah well, it was still fun to be "bad." I think it I hadn't been a Valar I might have done as Shasta did and dropped out, because it was so hard to find time. Curses!