Tol-in-Gaurhoth LI: The Pain of Wargs

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

The Warg Elders had gathered in their hidden location, a place that has remained undiscovered by Men to this day. Some Elvish scholars had claimed that it disappeared in the ruin of Beleriand; other adventurers sought it at the expense of all their days, in vain, far in the East of Middle-earth. It was never found, but the tales of happenings therein had been received by friends of Wargs, and so comes this story.

The Elders were leaders of Wargs. Great in wisdom and honour, they guided their kin as parents. Councils were held in their sanctuary in times of importance, and now a seminal gathering was demanded, as the so-called War of Wrath was coming to Middle-earth. The part of the Wargs in the war and its aftermath would be pivotal.

These Wargs were named in the traditions of their time and place, which has not been well-studied by our contemporaries. Thus, the names of the Wargs mentioned are renderings of the true names, and phonologically altered to suit the inferior human tongue.

Now, there was one, whom we shall call Eomer of the Rohirrim, who held great stock in ancient prophecies. As it should happen, now was the time for a realisation of one. For years leading up to the council, he had warned his followers that treachery was afoot, and exasperated his fellows with pleas for caution. His family had given to him a tale of deceit which had always worried him, a tale of murder and the death of Wargs, wrought by such powerful foes. Eomer thought the council a terrible idea at this time, and tried to make his friends believe, but the Wargs had seen prophecies come and go without incident, and saw not why they should worry about the power of any potential enemies. For who is more powerful than the Warg?



Please do not post on this thread yet.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

He was almost giddy as the night crept nearer. In pairs they come! he would repeat. Two to spill blood on the sacred ground! They bring terror and death. One night, a second and yea! a third, of this I know. But what follows! Two will follow, after the third night, great enemies! Their war beats and tramples us, and brings about that dread circumstance: the pain of Wargs is here. Two amoral forces, to subvert all others. The twain will come, at the behest of their following master, and his foe is at their heels. The pain of Wargs is the only certainty.

Please do not post on this thread yet.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Night 1 is starting now. The two enemies of Wargs may talk and scheme, and the one gifted Warg may utilise its power. There is no need for the other gifted Warg to do aught this night.

Day 1 will begin Monday 11PM (GMT+1).

Remember to turn your profile to invisible.



Please do not post on this thread yet.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

The Wargs appeared from their quarters to begin their discussions. They were eager to decide upon the path the Wargs should take, during and after the war. It was clear that the world was to be greatly changed. So to, though, was their traditional council. A trail of blood led from the centre of their hallowed stone circle to the easterly chambers.

At the end of the trail lay Eomer, torn to shreds on the ground. The walls of his room were decorated with scratches, for he had marked his final surroundings with the reflections of his panicked mind. They told of the prophecy he would recite repeatedly. Chilling prose, of which the Elders were familiar with. Some new scraps of information were among the bleak words, indications of special Wargs, with hidden powers: one to see the truth , and one to protect the innocent. But again the pairs, and again the pairs, who would come to bring murder…

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Legate of Amon Lanc
Thinlómien
Kitanna
Kath
Nogrod
Gwathagor
Shastanis Althreduin
SamwiseGamgee
Brinniel
Mithalwen
Diamond
Groin Redbeard
Gollum The Great
Rune Son of Bjarne
Gaunt

Day 1 has begun. Decide who to lynch. There will be no double-lynches. In the event of a tie, the first player to reach the necessary number of votes will be killed.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right. It's late, but this be a first post (maybe...), so I will do it and go to bed.

What do we know. There's 15 of us. Two are some Gifteds, possibly a Seer and maybe either a Ranger or a Hunter-like fella (if not really just simple Ranger or Hunter); and two are awful terrrible trrraitors, wuhurrrahahahrrr... *add Wargish curses*

What does it mean? Absolutely nothing. Which is exactly what these traitors are going to become, wuhurrahahahahrrr... (I started to kinda like that word... if you can call it a word).

What else? Nothing. Let us add some rant. Yada, yada, I haven't played with some people at all, yada, yada, so I don't know what to expect from them, and I will be probably rather careful with judging them until I get some general idea, although now thinking of that, I haven't played for a while, so maybe I will have to refresh my thoughts on everyone, so maybe no one has advantage over the others.

What more, maybe it's actually good. I have been cleaned of prejudices... :) ...maybe :rolleyes:

:p

That would be it from me for now (unless somebody crossposted with me and said something interesting and replyworthy). Good night, and good Day.

[Thinlómien]

I'm here even though it's past midnight and I have school tomorrow. Obvious conclusion: I'm either wolf or gifted if I'm that enthusiatic about this game. ;) (Real conclusion: I have been distracted from going to sleep this far. Obvious interpretation: I have been sending wolf PMs. Real interpretation: I'm easily distracted by MSN and especially certain people... Obvious summary: I must be something special as I'm this weird. Real summary: I'm secretly tried. Ok I'll stop! :D That was just a bit hypnotic...)

What else? I'm slightly baffled by this setting. So, we have a seer and a ranger, that much is clear. And then we now have two wolves, right? And two more will come after Night3? Hmmm... makes me wonder how it will affect the dynamics of this game... We will have four wolves, which is not nice, and on top of that, we will have less evidence about two of them... not good at all. But on the other hand, if we're extra smart and lucky, we can win this game very easily... A nice challenge, I'd say. :)


edit: xed with Legate

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

What do we know. There's 15 of us. Two are some Gifteds, possibly a Seer and maybe either a Ranger or a Hunter-like fella (if not really just simple Ranger or Hunter); and two are awful terrrible trrraitors, wuhurrrahahahrrr... *add Wargish curses*

What else? Nothing. Let us add some rant. Yada, yada, I haven't played with some people at all, yada, yada, so I don't know what to expect from them, and I will be probably rather careful with judging them until I get some general idea, although now thinking of that, I haven't played for a while, so maybe I will have to refresh my thoughts on everyone, so maybe no one has advantage over the others.

What more, maybe it's actually good. I have been cleaned of prejudices... :) ...maybe :rolleyes:


Maybe. . . There is plenty of people here I have never experienced in this kind of situation before, but I doubt that I will be rid of prejudices as I have experienced them in other situations and that will most likely have some influence on me.

At least on this, the first day after blood have been spilled!

You pretty much listed the most likely scenarios about the gifted, of course they could have some mystirious powers that we have not heard of, but that would be suprising indeed.

Anyways I shall stick around for a short while before resting.

[Thinlómien]

Yes, the party is most interesting. I'm looking forward to playing with Gollum and Gaunt - it's always interesting to see new faces (or snouts :D). And it has probably been years (in plural) since I last played with Samwise, so that's going to be interesting too... and all in all this mix is not maybe the most common of all. Yes, this should be interesting, whatever happens. :D

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I lied. I am posting yet another one. Although I didn't cross-post with anyone, I waited a little. Well, okay, I have not waited... I have been distracted... okay, whatever, let's stop that and post.

What else? I'm slightly baffled by this setting. So, we have a seer and a ranger, that much is clear. And then we now have two wolves, right? And two more will come after Night3? Hmmm... makes me wonder how it will affect the dynamics of this game... We will have four wolves, which is not nice, and on top of that, we will have less evidence about two of them... not good at all. But on the other hand, if we're extra smart and lucky, we can win this game very easily... A nice challenge, I'd say. :)
Okay, I am not good in deciphering these prophecy things, I really didn't get it, probably. Now when reading it, it makes sense. Okay, so do you (everyone) think this is how it's going to be? (Now I don't want to start debate about it, I just want confirmation, or some objection or whatever.) Two nassty monstersss now (ah, sorry... wargs don't hiss. I mistook it with something else), and if we don't get them, two more later? Actually it sounds good, even for a balance. (I originally thought we have just two Wolves, sorry, nassty traitor-Wargs, and finito.)

And as for Seer and Ranger, cf. above, if I did not miss something (again, which is well possible with these silly prophecies which no one cannoth readeth, if you get my meaning), it may not be sure whether the second one is a Ranger - in fact, not even whether the first one is a Seer, though this is most probable. But simply, we have one Gifted who can do something already on Night 1 (probably See, then) and another who can't (possibly Ranger, or Hunter).

Ah, okay, but I take it back. "One to protect", really, that sounds like a Ranger most probably. Obviously I "cannoth readeth" even normal stuff.

Edit: x-ed with Rune and Lommy.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

This is stating well. . . I actually overlooked the prophecie, ut must be because of nerves and eagernes to get things rolling.

Anyways a thanks to Lommy for putting forth her intepritation of it, I my self find it a bit confusing, but my brain works in mystirious ways.

[Gollum the Great]

I don't like the look of things.

*Gollum looks at the remains and grit his teeth, the blood's scent reminding him of not yet having breakfast*

The story has me mystified. That thing about "But again the pairs, and again in pairs", is just plain queer. Perhaps Eomer went off his onion, wrote all these messages out, slashed himself to bits and decided it would make a good mystery story. But I forgot, we're the Elders, and are supposed to be serious. My bad.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

It's the blooooooooood! That's what draws them near, I swear it! On night 3, there will be so much blood that it will draw the traitors here!

Sorry, wanted to rhyme. Anywhoo, present.
:Merisu:

[SamwiseGamgee]

Well, of course, this is all a little random at the moment, but at the risk of becoming prominent I'll get the first post up before I head off to bed.
I think that our dearly departed Eomer's words are fairly clear as regards those gifted Wargs in our midst: one to see the truth and one to protect the innocent. In those councils of the lesser peoples of this Middle Earth they are known as the seer and the ranger.
As regards those pernicious, traiterous beasts in our midst who are not fit to be called Wargs my mind is troubled, though. Listen carefully to those dying words of dear Eomer: 'But again the pairs, and again the pairs'. Are there any others among us who are concerned we may be battling against six fell enemies. Surely the first again would indicate there had already been an initial evil pair?

[Gwathagor]

if we're extra smart and lucky, we can win this game very easily...


Ha ha.

Two nassty monstersss now (ah, sorry... wargs don't hiss. I mistook it with something else), and if we don't get them, two more later? Actually it sounds good, even for a balance.
[...]
And as for Seer and Ranger, cf. above, if I did not miss something

Yeah, that's how I understand it.

[Gwathagor]

He was almost giddy as the night crept nearer. In pairs they come! he would repeat. Two to spill blood on the sacred ground! They bring terror and death. One night, a second and yea! a third, of this I know. But what follows! Two will follow, after the third night, great enemies! Their war beats and tramples us, and brings about that dread circumstance: the pain of Wargs is here. Two amoral forces, to subvert all others. The twain will come, at the behest of their following master, and his foe is at their heels. The pain of Wargs is the only certainty.


Listen carefully to those dying words of dear Eomer: 'But again the pairs, and again the pairs'. Are there any others among us who are concerned we may be battling against six fell enemies. Surely the first again would indicate there had already been an initial evil pair?

Actually, now that I look at it again, I think you may be right, SamGam: two traitors each night for three nights - and then the prophecy seems to indicate that something crazy happens, but I can't tell what exactly. After the prophecy has already discussed the six traitors over three days, it says that: "Two will follow, great enemies, after the third night, great enemies!" This is something different, as these two new figures follow the regular traitors and are apparently enemies. Might they be something along the lines of the wizards of Dueling Wizard fame/igominy? Or something else? Any ideas? I'm also curious what the prophecy means when it says (just following this), "The twain will come at the behest of their following master, and his foe is at their heels." If "twain" refers to the earlier pairs of traitors, then the meaning is relatively clear, as the "master" and the "foe" are apparently the two great enemies of the previous lines. But, if "twain" refers, rather, to those two enemies, then we have something entirely weird on our hands. What exactly, I couldn't begin to say. I'm inclined to think the first interpretation more likely. Occam's razor, you know.:)

[Kitanna]

Well fiddlesticks. I am present and unenthused with our situation. Unfortunately I have little time before I must go to bed. So allow me to lament and make my presence known. When I awake I will return with more substance.

[Brinniel]

I bet I could spend a lot of my time reading through the narrations and trying to analyse what it means...but I'm not going to. Mainly because I simply don't have the time to and honestly, all I really need to know right now is that there are traitors among us and all our efforts should be put towards lynching them. As much as I hate to feel clueless about the game, I'm not going to waste time trying to figure out the details as long as I know the main goal.

With that said, I mean it when I tell you I am short on time particularly toDay (and so stressed with RL I admit I'm feeling rather moody, which is why I won't linger tonight). Unfortunately, this means I'll have to vote extremely early (in about 9 hours). Well, I could risk voting later since there's a slight chance I might make it back later...but it's a risk I'm not willing to take.

Anyways, I am looking forward to playing with some new faces (there's three, I think), and also old faces too. Well, with the exception of Rune...as he always manages to get me lynched whenever I play with him. ;) :rolleyes:

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I wonder how possible it is that there are three pairs of two traitor-Wargs each, that kill rotationally?

[Thinlómien]

I wonder how possible it is that there are three pairs of two traitor-Wargs each, that kill rotationally?Like, that they take turns whose turn it's to pick a kill? And they would only win as separate teams? Hmm... Could be, but honestly, I can't see anything pointing at that especially... But Samwise and Gwath do make me wonder... this seems a little confusing.

In pairs they come! he would repeat. Two to spill blood on the sacred ground! They bring terror and death. 1) One night, a second and yea! a third, of this I know. But what follows! Two will follow, after the third night, great enemies! 2) Their war beats and tramples us, and brings about that dread circumstance: the pain of Wargs is here.3) Two amoral forces, to subvert all others. The twain will come, at the behest of their following master, and his foe is at their heels. The pain of Wargs is the only certainty.
1) Doesn't make sense. Three traitors? But didn't he just write that there are two of them? ("The two enemies of Wargs may talk and scheme...") Weird.
2) "Their war"? Do we have fighting wolf teams, after all?
3) Two forces? Two traitors or two traitor teams? Or something else?

I'm starting to be inclined to think like Brinn. Maybe we should just get rid of the two traitors that exist now and see what happens later. All this interpretation chaos causes mess and makes my brain hurt and it won't probably lead anywhere. (Granted, it's a good topic to discuss while there's nothing else.) I think it's clear enough that Eomer will add two more wolves after Night3, whether to the same team or establish a new team, I don't know. But I trust him to clarify what exactly he's doing when he does that...

[Thinlómien]

Well, okay then, since no one has started it yet, let's go and throw some suspicion around to get people talk about other stuff than the rules...

Something suspicious about everybody...

Brinn - While her attitude looks innocently practical, she could be a wolf who is enjoying the ignorance of the villagers and trying to preserve it by disencouraging analysing of the mod's posts by setting an example.

Gollum - There's always a newbie wolf. You see, statistically, one has probably the highest chance to be a wolf in his/her first game...

Gwath - Is trying to confuse the village with his weird interpretations of Eomer's words, clearly. I mean, Eomer said this game is going to be relatively basic and this guy goes on talking about wizards...

Kitanna - I never liked that "hi, I'm here" habit (except with Kath because it's so characteristic of her :D). Always makes me wonder if it's a wolf who's just keen on maintaining a presence...

Legate - Is writing long rambling posts without really saying anything :p so obviously just a wolf maintaining a presence and not interested in really getting things going.

Rune - He says he's nervous and eager. I wonder why... Also, he takes my interpretation as the truth a bit too readily... suspicious.

Samwise - I had forgotten his style and the fact that it always makes me intuitively suspicious. :D I remember once being right about him being a wolf, though...

Shasta - First, it looks like he knows the rules better than the rest of us, but doesn't care to elaborate. Then, he's suddenly suggesting something about as silly as six traitors, when Eomer has just said there are two of them at the moment... Fishy.

Kath, Nogrod, Mith, Diamond, Groin and Gaunt - Obviously hiding in the shadows intentionally...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Posting from the school library... yay!!! (They have a horrible keyboard, though. Very noisy to type, which makes me distracted.)

I'm also curious what the prophecy means when it says (just following this), "The twain will come at the behest of their following master, and his foe is at their heels." If "twain" refers to the earlier pairs of traitors, then the meaning is relatively clear, as the "master" and the "foe" are apparently the two great enemies of the previous lines. But, if "twain" refers, rather, to those two enemies, then we have something entirely weird on our hands. What exactly, I couldn't begin to say. I'm inclined to think the first interpretation more likely. Occam's razor, you know.:)
I don't get it at all, but when I first skim-read this part of the prophecy, I thought: what, something like the Boss and the Henchmen in Gil's game a long time ago? Maybe indeed some DW-y thing, like, maybe just in the sense that the baddies first pick somebody to "curse" and this one later turns into a Wolf (on Day 3???). And "foe", if it's a foe of the baddies? I.e. what about some Hunter?

Honestly, I have no idea. I also don't think it has too much of a real value right now, indeed, we have two wolves now (plainly, from what Eomer said in the narration), what comes later, will simply be dealt with when it comes. Nevertheless, it's good to have at least some idea, mainly that we know how many wolves we have now, and later, how many new ones were added or whatever. Several wolf teams also sounds like an option to me. But would it mean multiple kills? I'd hope not, there's not too many of us after all.


I wonder how possible it is that there are three pairs of two traitor-Wargs each, that kill rotationally?
Shasta's idea about "taking turns" actually also does not sound that impossible. That would also mean a big change (when you have to judge on basis of who killed which night etc.... it will be maybe too much confusing, but who knows. I have seen worse games, eh, Mr.Phantom?...).

Anyway, as Lommy said, as good topic as any to discuss for the moment. I actually think, quite good for start, not to just sit here and wonder.

I mean, Eomer said this game is going to be relatively basic and this guy goes on talking about wizards...
He said: relatively. And the mere prophecy was sufficient enough for me.

Now, I just wonder what to make of Lommy's apparent rudeness, I mean come on, she may have been tired yesterday evening, but now it's morning (at least for her) and she should not be thinking that sillily... ;) :p

P.S. Wow! I love to be in WW again after such a long time! It's just great!!! Will be back!!!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, having nothing to do, I made a reflection of the horrible (interpretate in whichever sense suits you) prophecy.

Interpretation follows:
He was almost giddy as the night crept nearer. In pairs they come! he would repeat. Two to spill blood on the sacred ground! They bring terror and death.
Two traitors in the beginning.

One night, a second and yea! a third, of this I know. But what follows! Two will follow, after the third night, great enemies!
First and second night normal course of action, after third night, two more traitors appear...

Their war beats and tramples us, and brings about that dread circumstance: the pain of Wargs is here. Two amoral forces, to subvert all others. The twain will come,
...who seem to belong to a different team. I.e. two Wolf teams who "battle each other". Makes good sense for balance. (Four, yet also of course may go against each other...)

at the behest of their following master, and his foe is at their heels. The pain of Wargs is the only certainty.
Now only this is very cryptic part. I don't know about you, but what I think of is a "master" on the side of the baddies (both?), and a "Hunter", or what? Master=Cobbler, as it was sometimes? Or will he join both the teams? Or something totally different? And WHEN? Or is it just some poetic babbling?

The first seems okay: two wolves now, two teams after Night 3. Or so I would read it. That would be reasonable for the game setting. The end is baffling. I say we don't bother, unless somebody has a good interpretation for it.

But again the pairs, and again the pairs, who would come to bring murder…

This is also kind of weird. But I thought the "again" is supposed to stand against the former text, which wrote about the Gifteds, so it means no more than "there are two who will help you, but again (sic), there are the pairs (2+2 wolves)... Hmm... now seeing it, the second "again the pairs", unless it's poetic repetition, is really weird.

Okay, anyway, I wanted to clear this up also for myself. The two wolf teams seem probable. Do you think... do you actually think, I now got an idea, that the wolves wouldn't actually kill at all, but "mutate" the others to wolves too? That could make understandable the "pairs and again pairs" forming... I know, it's quite overstretching it, but I'm merely thinking aloud... although "blood spilled" would speak for kills... or then it could be to lynches... or, when a wolf targets a wolf to kill, only THEN the wolf will be killed... okay, nonsense. That'd be too much, and Eomer would've told us if it were to be THAT complicated. (Well, he may still do so in the Evening.) But I was merely thinking.

EDIT: Hm, this makes weird italics up there, but no idea how this can be fixed. Just ignore it then.

Anyway, I am probably going to let this for you here to chew now... and be back later. Where are all these Groins, Nogrods, Gaunts and all?

[Nogrod]

Just to add my two cents into the discussion about our situation...

In pairs they come! ... One night, a second and yea! a third, of this I know.So we have two villains here right now. Possibly another pair the next Night?

But what follows! Two will follow, after the third night, great enemies! Their war beats and tramples us, and brings about that dread circumstanceSo if in pairs they come we have two plus two villains after the next Night and six after the third... but they only form
Two amoral forces, to subvert all others.? So it looks they will be fighting each other but form only two sides? To subvert others... like trying to enlist other villains into their teams at Nights or something?

The twain will come, at the behest of their following master, and his foe is at their heels.Or a third side is something totally different... Maybe on
our side? *crosses fingers for hope*

The pain of Wargs is the only certainty.So even they fight against each other we are the ones who suffer of that fight.

Oops!
Two will follow, after the third night, great enemies!So this can be read also "after the Night" eg. on Day3 onwards... so four diffenrent teams of two running rampant... :eek:

Gah, maybe you're right. Let's hunt the present baddies first...

[Gaunt]

Hello Fellow Wargs,

So far there is little, as far as I can see, to be made of this contemptible warg heresy. Samwise's theory on the prophecy seems plausible - that we will be facing a total of six traitors - but one wonders in what pattern the pairs will appear, and what level of cooperation will exist between them. Do the six traitors at present all know their roles, or will two be turned to the path of treachery with each passing day, until we have six?

What if one of the wargs destined for treachery is identified - will another be chosen in his or her stead to fulfill the prophecy of the pairs?

Much to consider.

[Mithalwen]

I don't know what is going on but I suspect Lommie has been eating funny mushrooms. .... That was an interesting load of meta game nonsense, very odd

[Brinniel]

Okay, not much has really happened since last night. And honestly, I have not the slightest clue who the traitors could be. This early in the Day, nobody really stands out as suspicious even a little bit.

I have to take off for class in only minutes and I don't know if I'll be back before deadline. So I think I'll do something I've never done before....and not vote (gasp). Yeah, yeah, it's something that'll probably get me killed (as usually does)....whether it's because the village decides a non-vote is too suspicious or the baddies decide I'd make a great no-track kill. I could make a completely random vote, but I just don't feel like it toDay. Sorry.

Oh how I hate when RL interferes with WW.... :rolleyes:

[Kitanna]

So, most of what is being discussed is Eomer's "pairs and pairs" prophecy and how we should take it. Since that is the main topic of discussion it's hard to form opinions on anyway. Lommy appears to be the only one who has put forth any sort of accusation and she points her finger at everyone so not a whole lot to go off of there.

Legate is being quite helpful in helping us decipher this riddle left, but we can ponder all day about the pairs Eomer is talking about and not really accomplish anything.

Legate: Sort of innocent, helpful, bordering on too helpful, but he may actually be the one who cracks the prophecy and gets it right, which good or evil could quite possibly benefit us later.
Lommy: Sort of innocent, stirred away from the prophecy ideas and contributed something that could provide decent fodder for later.
SamGam, Gwath, and Gollum: Not so innocent, but not so guilty either. After Legate's first long post of picking apart the pairs hint left by Eomer these three took up the same cause to analyze it. Sometimes the restating of ideas like this is because people want to see it in their own words or they're hiding something by jumping on an innocent idea that will make them look helpful.

That's all I have for now. I'll be back in a few hours.

[Nogrod]

How come you Lommy think this would be a relatively basic game as Eomer says it himself quite clearly in the TIG-thread:
I think I mentioned before that the game would be simple. I've actually changed my mind and want to do something a little bit creative. But it's all very secretive.
Ok, so this game will be a little bit experimental. I, of course, hope it goes swimmingly, but I will beg your forgiveness if it goes wrong. Here's hoping all's well, eh?:eek:
So some fancy stuff ahead of us it seems.

BUt Ill promise that's my part of this speculation toDay. I'll go back and try to see if I can say anything more constructive at this point.

[Gwathagor]

SamGam, Gwath, and Gollum: Not so innocent, but not so guilty either. After Legate's first long post of picking apart the pairs hint left by Eomer these three took up the same cause to analyze it. Sometimes the restating of ideas like this [...].

I was not just "restating." I am insulted that you failed to appreciate my new and original ideas.

[Nogrod]

A half-constructive point for starters...

There has been a lot of discussion about the possible set-up of this game and what the prophecies mean. And as Lommy and some others have mentioned it's okay to discuss them when one has nothing else to go on with. Sometimes these discussions may be even revealing if the wolves know the situation and have an interest to make pepole think about the rules in a certain way, but looking at the hints given to us and Eomer's talk about an experimental game it would look to me the wolves are no more cognizant of the situation we are or that they would have any clear interest in certain interpretations at this moment (in the end we "know" there are two wolves toDay).

So I'm afraid we can't read too much from those interpretations of the rules / setting of the game which kind of makes all the "rules-talk" a little less productive one might hope for. :(

But happily there are other things to read - and there might be things in between the lines of some of the "rule-talk" as well.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

How come you Lommy think this would be a relatively basic game as Eomer says it himself quite clearly in the TIG-thread:

:eek:
So some fancy stuff ahead of us it seems.

BUt Ill promise that's my part of this speculation toDay. I'll go back and try to see if I can say anything more constructive at this point.

Did Eomer not state that it would be a relatively simple game before he says these other things, let me answer that my self: Yes he did.

So it seem quite clear that either she is trying to trick us or she simply remembered it wrong and I do not see much point in trying to trick us at this point, as all is mass confusion anyway.

[Kitanna]

I was not just "restating." I am insulted that you failed to appreciate my new and original ideas.
Regardless of the fact if you are being new and original, you and others are muddying the waters by debating something that doesn't get us any closer to catching the bad guys. I stand by what I said, but it wasn't meant to offend.

So it seem quite clear that either she is trying to trick us or she simply remembered it wrong and I do not see much point in trying to trick us at this point, as all is mass confusion anyway.

When you say "she" are you referring to Lommy or someone else? If you are talking about Lommy can you explain how she might be trying to trick us?

[Nogrod]

Some thoughts thus far.

Lommy’s first post is just weird… and Legate's first ones look a bit puzzling as well (it was late for both of them to be sure).

Samwise raises my eyebrow with this beginning reservation:
Well, of course, this is all a little random at the moment, but at the risk of becoming prominent I'll get the first post up before I head off to bed.
After which he only mildly speculated about the gifted roles and the number of baddies to come. It looks very much like over-reacting or pre-empting to me.

Shasta’s and Kit’s first posts mainly state their presence. Kind of posts that always make me a bit worried

Lommy’s suspect-list is a bit weird as well. It’s not Lommyish. Like her first post is not. Now this is not saying she’s a wolf as she might be just trying a different mode of play for she could pull it very considerately were she a wolf. What I’m a bit concerned is just a tone I’m getting from her posting which isn’t exactly sincere. But that’s not something I would be ready to vote for her today: it’s too vague and feeling-based.

I’m a bit puzzled over Kitanna’s last post. Her choices of people she points out and what she says of them is interesting. It’s clear that Lommy and Legate have posted the most and then it’s also understandable to pick them. But it’s interesting she ends up stressing that Legate might be the one to crack the riddles in the end (when almost everyone posted had engaged themselves in a way or another to cracking the prophecies) but that Lommy’s host of talk might “provide decent fodder for later”… ?

Then she puts together SamGam, Gwath, and Gollum and says they are only repeating Legate’s points – which in the end I think is not even true. Looking for easy lynches?

It's very much open to me at this point of the Day. If I'd need to vote now it might be Samvais or Kit but hopefully there is more to read when I come back later - it's just too much second guessing right now.

Look innocentish at this moment: Gwath, Brinn.

EDIT: X'd with Kitanna

[Kitanna]

My first class was canceled so I'll be around for a while yet.


I’m a bit puzzled over Kitanna’s last post. Her choices of people she points out and what she says of them is interesting. It’s clear that Lommy and Legate have posted the most and then it’s also understandable to pick them. But it’s interesting she ends up stressing that Legate might be the one to crack the riddles in the end (when almost everyone posted had engaged themselves in a way or another to cracking the prophecies) but that Lommy’s host of talk might “provide decent fodder for later”… ?


By fodder for later I meant depending on how toDay and Night goes it may leave us with some sort of clue in the Days to come or it could well mean absolutely nothing later. And as for Legate he's dedicated the most time to trying to figure things out, that's all that meant. It doesn't mean he'll figure out what Eomer meant or that anyone will for that matter.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

When you say "she" are you referring to Lommy or someone else? If you are talking about Lommy can you explain how she might be trying to trick us?

Of course I am talking about Lommy, but I think you are misunderstanding me.

Basicly I thought Nogrod's question to Lommy was a bit unnecisary, as seemed clear to me that Lommy had remembered the part where Eomer said it would be an ordinary game and forgotten that he retracted that later on.

I then state that the only other possible explenation is in my view that Lommy was trying to misguide us. . . but I do not belive that is the case! (She would gain so little for that)

So I was actually questioning Nogrod rather than Lommy. . . Does that make sense?

[Mithalwen]

Sorry if it duplicates, but time is short for me today.

The game will last at least 3 nights so if we get the extant Warg-enemies we win ... however there will be a rival pair of Warg-enemies after that. So that presumably will mean 2 kills per night but the possibility of them taking each other out.

If this is correct I suspect that the second pair are aware of their destiny and are cobbling. Lommie seems so cobblerish there has to be an explanation.

I have to vote early tonight - familystuff.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate is being quite helpful in helping us decipher this riddle left, but we can ponder all day about the pairs Eomer is talking about and not really accomplish anything.
Well, I was not actually trying to be helpful at all - like I said, I was doing that for myself, and also, to do something while waiting for everybody to show up. (By the way, do we have everyone here? What about Groin?)

Lommy: Sort of innocent, stirred away from the prophecy ideas and contributed something that could provide decent fodder for later.
When I saw this, I wanted to ask you about it, and even though Nogrod did too and you answered me, it still does not quite provide the answer for me. Just what did you mean? "Stirred away... and contributed something that could provide decent fodder for later." I.e., she contributed something else besides the prophecy-talk - here you must mean her accusations. I am not sure, but did you notice that she accused practically everyone? (Well, you did.) And I don't think it was serious at all. Quite obviously. Or was it? But in the case it wasn't, what "decent fodder for later" it may be?

So I'm afraid we can't read too much from those interpretations of the rules / setting of the game which kind of makes all the "rules-talk" a little less productive one might hope for. :(

But happily there are other things to read - and there might be things in between the lines of some of the "rule-talk" as well.
Indeed, and I don't want to say these words aloud, but I am quite happy that there was such a topic to discuss on the first Day, rather then the usual You-Know-What, which we discuss all the time on Day 1s otherwise. (And please, let's forget this immediately. At least one game without that! Make it a holiday!) It may not be productive per se, but then, what on Day 1 is.


Basicly I thought Nogrod's question to Lommy was a bit unnecisary, as seemed clear to me that Lommy had remembered the part where Eomer said it would be an ordinary game and forgotten that he retracted that later on.

I then state that the only other possible explenation is in my view that Lommy was trying to misguide us. . . but I do not belive that is the case! (She would gain so little for that)
That's right, and eventually, the truth will come out by itself: sure she, even if she wanted, couldn't hope that none of the 15 of us would remember what Eomer said later. Speaking of this, now Rune seems quite nice here bringing this up - reasonable, only hopefully not bringing attention to Nogrod. Which I, however, dismiss.

If this is correct I suspect that the second pair are aware of their destiny and are cobbling. Lommie seems so cobblerish there has to be an explanation.
This is actually most interesting idea which I wouldn't have really thought of myself. Just how comes? It seems weird to me - for some reason, although logically it could make sense. As for cobblerish Lommy, well, at once I had similar feeling, however I would take it with great reservations - at least not until later on. Cobblerish feeling from Lommy does not seem to me now a good enough reason for suspecting her. Not yet.

Anyway... I am going to post my thoughts on everyone this far in the next post (summarised), though don't expect me to say much except for a few people (resp., don't expect me to say much about even those few people. But I have some general ideas, some outlined already in the text above).

[Mithalwen]

Personally I don't have a "later on" today. I don't like Lommie's post it is too self aware and knowing and has the clever-clever ring that makes me uneasy
Eomer said he was going for something different so maybe we have to think differently. I think this is a good thing since it can be easy to get complacent.

Also interesting is having a couple of unknown quantities ... fresh blood is always welcome though it is not the most felicitous phrase in this context. :rolleyes:

[SamwiseGamgee]

Ok, so in an ode to Thinlómien I have compiled a short list, with my comments and thoughts on play so far. Here's what I've got:

Legate: my inclination is to think that, whilst unwise, the 'thinking out loud' approach is fairly innocent. Although there's a lot of stuff to sieve through, I can say that I have been helped by some of his thoughts relating to the prophecy. However, the fact that he's dwelling so much on the prophecy makes me a little bit uncomfortable- I really think we should be getting down to the job we innocents have of rooting out the taint of evil in our midst.

Rune Son: in post 11 a mistake is aknowledged. I would never think like this normally, but WW being WW my mind is thinking: is that a genuine aknowledgement of a mistake or is it a clever ploy to fool us all into thinking you're genuine?

Brinniel: I don't like non-votiung on day one one little bit for the following reasons: it puts the innocents in the awkward position of not being able to see someone's thinking, and it also gives the evil deserters amongst us an option to cast the seeds of doubt. (That's in no way personal, Brin, it's just the way I see it as a player).

Lommy: was the first to throw suspicion around, but I don't actually find that suspicious in itself- gotta start somewhere, eh? I am slightly perturbed by the initial post, though. Such overanalysis may be clever tactics intended to throw Wargs with otherwise keen snouts off the scent by the medium of humour.

Shasta: I very nearly had no opinion after the initial post, but the last post from her made me think that we may have a very subtle and wily Warg-killer on our hands. Does suggesting a rotational system not, after all, decrease the possibility of we innocents seeing a trend in the wolves tactics as to who they kill? If so, then this seed, once planted, may be used to undermine an otherwise perfectly logical argument. I know that is very subtle, and a bit unlikely, but it's a possibility nonetheless.

Gwath: agrees with me in her second post, but has misunderstood what I said. I tend to think this probably makes her innocent, as it would seem to indicate a genuine will to solve the prophecy, rather than just stroke my ego.

Kit: has her reservations about me, which is fine- so do I!- but seems keen to move us on from the prophecy. I agree on that point, and because I do and I know I'm an innocent I think she probably is too.

Nogrod: I actuall didn't just mildly speculate, I stated what the gifteds clearly were (Legate had tried, bless him, but gotten carried away on Highway Tangent) and then put forward a new thought on the despicable Warg-killers. Odd that I was worried I'd be picked up for an early post with too much content and then the exact opposite happens. That, dear Nogrod, worries me.

Mith: nothing substantial, but there. Not overly happy with that.

Gaunt: puts forward a reasonable theory, but again doesn't actually get us any closer toward the meat of starting to identify who we're to do away with this evening.

So, there it is. Not much to go on, but it's what I've got. I do honestly think that we need to move on from the prophecy. Eomer is a tricksy one, and he's quite probably taking perverse delight from beyond the grave at watching us struggle to answer something which we actually have no control over. It's been said before and I'll say it again: we have two enemies to deal with now, of this we're sure, so let's just concentrate on them.

Anyway, in another shocker I know I'm not going to get back online tonight, and so I'm going to vote.

**Brinniel**

I just don't want her alive tomorrow and for us to spend a day thinking: 'Did the enemies leave her alive, or is she an enemy herself?' My approach, while brutal, is necessary: get rid of the doubt. And I am most suspicious of her, so I'm going to sleep fine! :D

P.S.~ Sorry if I refferred to you as a he and you're a she or vice versa, but I should remind you that we Wargs transcend the confines of mere gender! ;)

[Kitanna]

Rune, I understand what you meant. Thanks for clarifying.

I am not sure, but did you notice that she accused practically everyone? (Well, you did.) And I don't think it was serious at all. Quite obviously. Or was it? But in the case it wasn't, what "decent fodder for later" it may be?
Lommy's list may mean absolutely nothing since it was obviously getting the ball rolling, but then again I see no reason to discount that it could come in handy later on in the game. Of course it could be forgotten later as nothing more than jargon from Day 1.

Who hasn't appeared yet? Kath, Diamond, Groin? And before long I'm going to have to vote.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Standing out:

Thinlómien - despite the fact of being completely silli at times, and her generally "playful" attitude (which could be, with Mith, called "cobblerish"), there is nothing truly suspicious on her. This far. Although I am a little wary - rather waiting how things turn out later, though.

Kitanna - not sure about her comment I questioned above, but that's rather a matter of question than anything to judge her innocence/wolvery (resp. wrong-wargery). Unless she made some slip and when questioned, she retreated.

Nogrod - looks like our "classic" Nogrod, which is good. Has some, albeit little biting remarks, hmm, maybe too unconflicting for Nogrod on Day 1. But this whole day is quite unusual, so... this far nothing special.

Mithalwen - except for her Lommy-cobbler theory (and her proposal of the Great Cobbler Paradigm in general), nothing special - however that's still quite good for Day 1. This far, seeming genuinely Mith-y to me.

Brinniel - being maybe "too nice", resp. "too un-conflicty", however this goes hand in hand with "too quiet because of RL". So I am not going to make any judgements here yet. Only a note, by "un-conflicty" I don't refer to her refusal to vote, but to her overall "un-conflicty" pose, where even though she discourages digging in the prophecy, she doesn't say anything much about anyone.

Rune Son of Bjarne - looks reasonable this far. Maybe somewhat more reasonable than usual, in the feeling I get from him, but for now, I have no reasons to suspect him.

Not standing out, because all they said concerned the prophecy and/or other neutral topics (like whether they are here or not):

Gwathagor
Shastanis Althreduin
SamwiseGamgee
Gollum The Great
Gaunt
fit more or less into the cathegory about whom I can't say neither A nor B. (Nor C, for that matter.)

Standing outside, because they are not here at all:

Kath
Diamond
Groin Redbeard

About these, I can't say even D.

EDIT: x-ed since my last post.

[Mithalwen]

So to develop:

Assuming there are a second pair of traitors, they are various options.

Preselected aware of destiny - may seem cobblerish or keep low profile since need to survive to day three to take effect.

Preselected unaware of destiny "cursed" - will seem as ordos til day three. Will then have to try not to noticeably change behaviour but acting natural is much harder than being natural...

Not preselected - less likely but not without precedent - in the wereducks game the first kill choice became a wolf but it was first thought to be a ranger save. Tricksy. Could be less obvious dependent on posting or voting order or random. Therefore pointless to waste much time on speculation. More something to consider should noone die in the night.

Really only option one is going to give clues at this stage.

There are of course no doubt other possibilties which haven't occured to me...

[Mithalwen]

*googles paradigm*

Oh.... *may have to vote legate for using words I don't understand and can't spell *

[Mithalwen]

++Lommie Just too odd and no more time

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right, a reaction to the few posts that happened to appear meanwhile (I hope not too many appear while I am posting this).

Samwise immediately fled high on my suspicion list.

First, he keeps being nice to people, while at the same time accusing-ish at the same time.
Second, vote for Brinniel is definitely "safe". I know he wasn't playing probably for a long time, so it may be a habit which used to be more common in his times, but still, these grounds for voting somebody are actually even more "safe" than Brinn's non-vote itself. Do you get what I mean?

Besides that, he mentions several times that "we should abandon the prophecy and focus on our main problem", right this is, but the way he keeps repeating it just asks for questioning it (hm, an interesting formulation). First I wanted to quote only his remark on me:
Legate: my inclination is to think that, whilst unwise, the 'thinking out loud' approach is fairly innocent. Although there's a lot of stuff to sieve through, I can say that I have been helped by some of his thoughts relating to the prophecy. However, the fact that he's dwelling so much on the prophecy makes me a little bit uncomfortable- I really think we should be getting down to the job we innocents have of rooting out the taint of evil in our midst.
With a mere comment of "I always ask people who say this, what would they post in my place which would be so wonderfully 'getting down to the job'". But then, when he mentioned this "let's get to the job" also further, and not just with me, I kind of started to think about it more - is he repeating that all over again out of honest concern, or because he "shields himself" this way? Somehow, it's harder to imagine for me that it is a honest concern.

(Besides that, what I quoted is a good example of what I said about being nice to people and yet accusing-ish at the same time: and he's like that with more or less everyone; a good wolfy attitude, to have open door for nice friendship with the person but at the same time have grounds prepared for sending that person to lynch if the general opinion turns against that person.)

This is also a nice example of something that alarms me:
Gwath: agrees with me in her second post, but has misunderstood what I said. I tend to think this probably makes her innocent, as it would seem to indicate a genuine will to solve the prophecy, rather than just stroke my ego.
Again, nice, yet... just, so easy to make "her" innocent :)

Kit: has her reservations about me, which is fine- so do I!- but seems keen to move us on from the prophecy. I agree on that point, and because I do and I know I'm an innocent I think she probably is too.
And this the same, the reasoning "we share opinons so we are in the same camp" is one of the fishiest I've ever seen. Although of course, it may be the view of a naive innocent... but for some reason, I don't think SW that naive. (Although I don't know anything about his experiences in WW, he made the impact on me that he already must have something behind himself. So why so naive?)

Lommy's list may mean absolutely nothing since it was obviously getting the ball rolling, but then again I see no reason to discount that it could come in handy later on in the game. Of course it could be forgotten later as nothing more than jargon from Day 1.
Okay, I think I got that now and I think I understand you. In that case, it's a mere comment and no need to bother with it anymore. Okay. Dismissed.

EDIT: x-ed with two Miths

[Gollum the Great]

I'm feeling somewhat non-talkative, so I will merely post my concerns:

Legate: Fishy. During what time I have been here in the Downs, I got the impression he was one of those "all brain" guys and wrote long, very intelligent posts. His posts here have been long, but the content has taken a sort of rambling touch to them, and I wonder if it's safe to come near him.

Lommy: Weird posts and I don't trust her. Not exactly evading the issue, but acting queerly.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate: Fishy. During what time I have been here in the Downs, I got the impression he was one of those "all brain" guys and wrote long, very intelligent posts. His posts here have been long, but the content has taken a sort of rambling touch to them, and I wonder if it's safe to come near him.

Just wait a few days, Gollum :) There was really nothing much specific to analyse yet on the first Day. :) (Well, besides the prophecy... :rolleyes: )

[Thinlómien]

Sorry, Mith, I'm not a cobbler - even though I'd love to be. *hint hint future mods* ;)

*sigh* I wasn't (entirely) serious with that list of mine. I wanted to get discussion rolling and I thought it would also maybe do good to me to force myself to see evil in everybody: it's often so very difficult to see suspiciousness anywhere early on. I didn't really suspect anyone that early, nor do I actually suspect anyone now. Of what I said, there are maybe two things worth taking seriously: my initial bad gut feeling about Samwise and the fact that it's usual and possibly also Rune's eagerness to agree with my interpretation of the rules. However, I would not really use this as an evidence against Rune, especially as he seems rather innocent in total. And in case Nogrod needs clarification about what I said about this game being simple, it is like Rune says - I forgot, or rather, was quite unsure with all those different statements by Eomer and that simplicity-statement was the one that had left the strongest impression on me...

I know I said I was instinctively a little suspicious of Samwise, but I think his long list post looks pretty innocentish, it's the tone of it. I think he says interesting stuff, too, and I don't think his vote on Brinn is too bad, even as it's rather safe. I mean, some of the stuff that Brinn said about her absence made me too raise my eyebrows a little.

I think both our newbies (Gaunt and Gollum) look pretty innocent this far. Not too fishy or jumpy, as newbie wolves often are. Though it's too early to judge, of course.

I think everybody's been pretty nice to each other and there has been little suspicion even for a Day1. I don't think I like it. The only one who has been really suspected is Kitanna. Although she is a little fishy (I didn't like what she said about Gwath, Samwise and Gollum), this little fact makes me disinclined to vote her. I think we'll learn more if she stays alive.

Where are Groin, Kath and Di?

[Nogrod]

They are showing the film Der Untergang in Finnish television and I had to wrestle myself away from the telly as it would have lasted until something like an hour before the deadline (well, I've seen it once anyway).

Addicted to this game? :o


Okay, just a few short remarks to begin with.

Gollum: the way you decide to suspect those who have talked the most is generally counter-productive for the village but useful for the wolves. I'm not going to suspect you for it toDay as I think this is your first game (was I right?). But think of it yet again. If we lynch all the talkers on the first Days (and wolves kill the rest during the first Nights) we'll have a village where there is no game - as no one talks - and the wolves are free to roam.

It's true that in a few last games people have paid heed to this with variting success, but as it seems like in this one some of the old bad habits are coming forwards once again I thought of making a point of it.

So it's easy to point out something a talkative player has done but being talkative is a different category than that of being a wolf. The categories may overlap every once in a while to be sure but in many cases they don't. What is clear is that one (being talkative) doesn't as such imply the other (being a wolf).


One thing that makes me wonder about master Samwise is the way he answered my pretty light suspicion of him making a bit too pre-empting or overdone reservations ("at the risk of becoming prominent") in his post which only speculated with the roles.Odd that I was worried I'd be picked up for an early post with too much content and then the exact opposite happens. That, dear Nogrod, worries me.Too much content? THe exact opposite of what? I somehow can't get myself to understand what he means here. Maybe I'm just missing something?

That makes me wonder... but that's not the same thing as suspect him heavily. I think Legate had some good points on his posting nice but still leaving space to strike from behind the niceties - and the vote sure is the safest there is. But still I'm afraid he might be just the easy lynch for toDay which seldomly benefits the village with a score of bagging a wolf (well it does sometimes as some people with even bad memory might remember :)).

EDIT: X'd with Lommy

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Standing out:
Rune Son of Bjarne - looks reasonable this far. Maybe somewhat more reasonable than usual, in the feeling I get from him, but for now, I have no reasons to suspect him.


Hey! I am always resonable. . .at least I think so.

I am suprised that you guys can say so much about so little, I know I am strugeling to find stuff to say about people.

Anyways, I understand what Legate is saying about Samwise, it has been seen before that vauge acusations followed up by nice words has been the tactic of chois. From what I have seen, I belive that Samwise is a crafty player no matter what side he is on. . . I think he is hard to judge and I would like him to stick around for another day, so I will not vote for him today.

Gollum:You should change your avy. . . I constantly think EVIL whenever I see your posts.

Brinniel: It is hard to say if her non-vote is because she is innocent and have that "I am going to do what I want atitude" or it is because she is evil.
I think we have all tried doing something that we knew would seem suspicous in the eyes of others, but went ahead and did it anyway.
Still I think it is very annoying that she did not vote. . .

Mithalwen: She has been active and said stuff, yet it is as if she has said nothing. . . I atleast get nothing from reading her posts. Had this been day 2 or 3 I would be sure it was because she was trying to hide in the open, but it is day 1 and that complicates things. I think I might vote for her today, but I am not sure yet.

EDIT: Cross Posted With Lommy & Nogrod

[Kath]

Eep, hello, Day 1 blues again here ... well, as in I forgot it was starting. To be honest I don't have any time to post now as we're about to go watch a film. If the deadline is 10pm I should be able to get back, make a quick post and vote. If I miss it I can only apologise, I'm writing this on the go as it is!

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Gollum: the way you decide to suspect those who have talked the most is generally counter-productive for the village but useful for the wolves. I'm not going to suspect you for it toDay as I think this is your first game (was I right?). But think of it yet again. If we lynch all the talkers on the first Days (and wolves kill the rest during the first Nights) we'll have a village where there is no game - as no one talks - and the wolves are free to roam.

It's true that in a few last games people have paid heed to this with variting success, but as it seems like in this one some of the old bad habits are coming forwards once again I thought of making a point of it.

So it's easy to point out something a talkative player has done but being talkative is a different category than that of being a wolf. The categories may overlap every once in a while to be sure but in many cases they don't. What is clear is that one (being talkative) doesn't as such imply the other (being a wolf).


Oh Noggie, do we really have to go through this again?
Of course it is counter-productive to suspect people only because they are vocal, but it is the same if you suspect people for being less vocal than others.
Really you used a lot of space on stating the obvious. . .

EDIT: Cross Posted With Kath

[Thinlómien]

Nice to see Kathie around, even if for the traditional "Im here" post... :D

Oh Noggie, do we really have to go through this again?
Of course it is counter-productive to suspect people only because they are vocal, but it is the same if you suspect people for being less vocal than others.
Really you used a lot of space on stating the obvious. . .I wouldn't take it too seriously, Rune. You know, he is a teacher in RL, so he must have an instinct to explain stuff to people if he assumes they don't know it. (He even has a bad habit of considering people more stupid than they are: often, when he explains something, he starts with making sure I know what some obvious thing is... :rolleyes: ;))

[Nogrod]

*sigh* I wasn't (entirely) serious with that list of mine.
Good to hear that Lommy. I mean that was the impression I got from there and wondered what had come into you. And btw. my reason to ask you about the "relative simplicity" of the game was because you used it as a reason to suspect Gwath! :smokin:

But your first post still is a weird one. It's like you try to be Fea or something and trying "to pose in borrowed feathers" (another Finnish idiom) is always a bit eyebrow-raising in a game of WW... :confused:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Nice, some more posting going on...

Hmm... a few notes. Lommy: Makes me somewhat more aware than before, it's hard to define it, but simply put, I could say that I got the feeling from her post whether the intention with which she wrote her first summary back then was not different originally and now she only re-interpretated it in the light of what we others said about it. Also, she seems in any case to incline to suspect everybody - just for an example, this:

I think both our newbies (Gaunt and Gollum) look pretty innocent this far. Not too fishy or jumpy, as newbie wolves often are. Though it's too early to judge, of course.

I find it a little eyebrow-raising, just because I would not expect that conclusion. It's in the spirit of her first post, which I thought jok-y, because it's unusual (at least I don't recall her acting like that before, anyway) - "1+1=2, therefore a wolf." "2+2=4, therefore a wolf." She seems to look on everything from the worst possible perspective, which does not fit to her for me.

Also, Lommy seems to me intentionally going somewhat against the flow (like: "Kitanna is suspected, but I won't vote her"). Maybe really Mith's cobbler-theory has something in it...?

If we lynch all the talkers on the first Days (and wolves kill the rest during the first Nights) we'll have a village where there is no game - as no one talks - and the wolves are free to roam.
Oh no, not again... :D

Hey! I am always resonable. . .at least I think so.
Yes, actually I think so too! But I said: more than usual. But maybe I am just more attentive of it.

Brinniel: It is hard to say if her non-vote is because she is innocent and have that "I am going to do what I want atitude" or it is because she is evil.
I think we have all tried doing something that we knew would seem suspicous in the eyes of others, but went ahead and did it anyway.
Still I think it is very annoying that she did not vote. . .
Yes, that's a problem, but I say: okay, now she says she simply doesn't have time etc. and won't vote, all right then. But then let's see what she behaves like tomorrow!

EDIT: x-ed with Kath and those after her

[Kitanna]

Brinniel: I don't like non-votiung on day one one little bit for the following reasons: it puts the innocents in the awkward position of not being able to see someone's thinking, and it also gives the evil deserters amongst us an option to cast the seeds of doubt. (That's in no way personal, Brin, it's just the way I see it as a player).
**Brinniel**

I just don't want her alive tomorrow and for us to spend a day thinking: 'Did the enemies leave her alive, or is she an enemy herself?' My approach, while brutal, is necessary: get rid of the doubt. And I am most suspicious of her, so I'm going to sleep fine!
I don't know how I feel about that vote. Though many have and will find Brinn's non-vote reason for doubt and anxiety, I'm wondering if SamGam wasn't too swift to take that route. Obviously he said he'd be gone the rest of the day and so he was left with little other choice but to vote then or not at all. Brinn wasn't the only one he suspected, but she managed his vote. And what proof does SamGam have the enemies will leave her alive? And also there were (and still are) a few who had yet to post and keeping them alive could be just as bad as keeping Brinn alive, non-talkers, no trails, all that fun to sort through. So why was Brinn's unproductiveness so much more important than anyone else's?

Second, vote for Brinniel is definitely "safe".
But that vote is sure to raise eyebrows and SamGam must have known he'd be under scrutiny for such a rash choice.

Lommy: Weird posts and I don't trust her. Not exactly evading the issue, but acting queerly.
How so?

All in all SamGam jumps out, but I'm left wondering if it's just an irresponsible first day vote and he was out of time and needed someone, anyone to vote for. Or, as Legate pointed out, it was a safe vote because he figured no one else would vote for Brinn.

[Nogrod]

Really you used a lot of space on stating the obvious. . .
You know, he is a teacher in RL, so he must have an instinct to explain stuff to people if he assumes they don't know it. (He even has a bad habit of considering people more stupid than they are: often, when he explains something, he starts with making sure I know what some obvious thing is... )
HaHa! Just a precaution. You'd be astonished to find out how many obvious things are just soo alien-stuff for many people these days... and not all players in this game are veterans. Like Gollum to whom I addressed the point. :)

But yes, I'm not in anyway wishing to continue that discussion we've seen a million times even if it might be the first time for some. Remember that Rune. :rolleyes:

But... to add something of more value to this post as well... I'd be inclined to look at people who wish to make a number out of this as people who should be watched more carefully. :D


About Brinn as well. Didn't she say she was gambling with her chances to get online in the end? So let's not judge her as a non-voter before she actually is one. I have found her more innocent than not this far - and maybe I'm lured by her nice way of putting things and her protesting to the RL. But somehow I just don't see her protesting to the RL in that manner were she a wolf who had no chances of getting the vote in. I mean she would have voted were she a wolf just not to raise too many eyebrows...

[Thinlómien]

Nice, some more posting going on...

Hmm... a few notes. Lommy: Makes me somewhat more aware than before, it's hard to define it, but simply put, I could say that I got the feeling from her post whether the intention with which she wrote her first summary back then was not different originally and now she only re-interpretated it in the light of what we others said about it. Also, she seems in any case to incline to suspect everybody - just for an example, this:

I think both our newbies (Gaunt and Gollum) look pretty innocent this far. Not too fishy or jumpy, as newbie wolves often are. Though it's too early to judge, of course.

I find it a little eyebrow-raising, just because I would not expect that conclusion. It's in the spirit of her first post, which I thought jok-y, because it's unusual (at least I don't recall her acting like that before, anyway) - "1+1=2, therefore a wolf." "2+2=4, therefore a wolf." She seems to look on everything from the worst possible perspective, which does not fit to her for me.What? You suspect me for seeing everything in suspicious light and use as an example a quote where I say two players seem rather innocentish? And I really have no idea where did that point of yours originate from in the first place, unless it was from the accusation-throwing post (which wasn't serious, like I said), because if you look at it, I don't really suspect anyone very much at the moment, I think I was far more talking about people's possible innocence in my last post. I'm getting slightly worried, or then I'm just baffled...

[Nogrod]

A few words about the less seen ones...

Kath: OMG. How many times in a row does that woman get through Day1 with only posting at the last hours: "ohh, I almost forgot, have no time, see ya toMorrow"? It's no reason to suspect her of wolvery to be sure but this is becoming a habit with her. A habit that makes playing Day1 pretty annoying with her. How about we all took such an approach to Day1's and just counted on the fact that they won't lynch me because of that whatever one's role is? Surely no one wishes to get lynched on Day1 before the "real game" begins.

Shasta: A weird oneliner (in rhyme?) and a oneliner suggestion concerning the roles. So no role, no interest to play? Or is he planning to take his - permittedly deserved - revenge now?

Gaunt: one post specualating the set-up. I'd say we shgould give him the benefit of doubt toDay but we should require him to actually take part toMorrow.

Di & Groin? Who? Are they playing?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

What? You suspect me for seeing everything in suspicious light and use as an example a quote where I say two players seem rather innocentish? And I really have no idea where did that point of yours originate from in the first place, unless it was from the accusation-throwing post (which wasn't serious, like I said), because if you look at it, I don't really suspect anyone very much at the moment, I think I was far more talking about people's possible innocence in my last post. I'm getting slightly worried, or then I'm just baffled...

Blast. I am getting blind. Okay, I take it back. I read it as "Gaunt and Gollum... AS NEWBIE WOLVES", because you said something similar in the first post of yours (about newbie wolves being likely around here), so I thought you are continuing around the same lines. Okay, okay, horrible actually. Anyway, to the second thing you said, yes, I was referring to your very first post... because you did not seem to be so sure whether it was all a joke or not, resp. you seemed more unsure about it being joke than I have expected (now talking about the parts you did not specifically mention as having a grain of serious suspicion or whatever in it).

EDIT: x-ed with Nog.

[Thinlómien]

Hahaha, Nogrod is getting heated with silent people... :D I missed this aspect of ww! :p;) On a more serious note, though, I too think some people should post more...

edit: xed with Legate

[Thinlómien]

Anyway, to the second thing you said, yes, I was referring to your very first post... because you did not seem to be so sure whether it was all a joke or not, resp. you seemed more unsure about it being joke than I have expected (now talking about the parts you did not specifically mention as having a grain of serious suspicion or whatever in it).Okay, people, one more clarification: I was not seriously suspecting anyone in my accusation-throwing post. I was just trying to provoke reactions/discussion and also see if anyone could be seen as suspicious because no one seemed so to me. Thus, the points are valid notions in principle, but they hardly have any value, and I do not suspect anyone based on them or "stand behind" those points, except the two I singled out later. (If it's this complicated, I'll never again try suspicion-throwing as a discussion-creator... *deep sigh* :D Well, if we're lucky, maybe we can even learn something from all this mess. Maybe.)

[Nogrod]

Heated? : cool : :D

But look at this...


Legate of Amon Lanc 10
Thinlómien 9
Nogrod 8
Mithalwen 6
Kitanna 6
Rune Son of Bjarne 6

Gwathagor 3
Gollum the Great 2
Shastanis Althreduin 2
SamwiseGamgee 2
Brinniel 2
Kath 1
Gaunt 1
I'm inclined to say I'd pick my vote from the last seven + the non-posters. I mean this is the quietest Day1 in ages!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'm inclined to say I'd pick my vote from the last seven + the non-posters. I mean this is the quietest Day1 in ages!

True. I was at first about to say "Yes, I'm gonna to do that as well! Let's make this an example! Down with traitors!". But then I could not not add (hmph :rolleyes: ): But what if the wolves are only among the vocal players? (Noooo! I have started it again. Sorry. :( )

But nah, I think I am most inclined to vote Samwise now. Otherwise, I would have to vote for somebody who really hasn't posted AT ALL, which... well... hmph. We can save that for Day 2... then we will have about half dozen a people from whom to pick on Day 2 just because of this reason :rolleyes:

[Thinlómien]

A sudden silence...

edit: xed with Legate - great, now I'm laughing at myself :D

[Nogrod]

Feeling innocentish by their posting:
Mith
Kitanna*
Gwath
Brinniel

No idea by posting (somehow innocentish - somehow suspicious) but are actually playing: one can be assured they can be read for and not just be guessed at in the later Days as they talk:
Legate
Lommy
Rune

Not posted too much but new to the game (benefit of doubt on Day1)
Gollum the Great
Gaunt

That leaves the non-posters so far, I don't think neither would try to get through Day1 as a villain by consciously not-posting - even if I don't like them being away either. Come forwards you two!
Diamond
Groin

So?:
Shastanis Althreduin
SamwiseGamgee
Kath

Somehow I'm not too happy with the outcome of this cross-tables... It looks too easy.

*I still don't like Kitanna's post #28 and her answering-post #35 leaves unanswered the suspicion of her trying to help with the "easy lynch" (piling Sam, Gwath & Gollum), but everything she has done after that looks very considerate and thoughtful and has very much tuned down my suspicions of her - unless she is in cahoots with either Legate or Samvais... but for Day1 that looks like a bit too far-fetched.

EDIT: X'd with LEgate and Lommy

[Kitanna]

I have to vote and I have to do so now. The only person who has really raised my eyebrow in the last few hours is SamGam. The thing is I don't believe that vote was safe one because it was so reckless. I don't feel SamGam is particularly guilty due to that Brinn vote and I'd like to see more before casting any real suspicion his way.

I'm not a fan of random voting, but I usually find myself doing it on Day 1 either way. I'll probably pull a name from a hat and cast my vote that way seeing as there isn't a whole lot to look at that could sway me to vote for anyone based on reasoning and what have you.

cross posted with Nogrod: *I still don't like Kitanna's post #28 and her answering-post #35 leaves unanswered the suspicion of her trying to help with the "easy lynch" (piling Sam, Gwath & Gollum)
I wasn't looking for an easy lynch. In fact I had/have no intention of trying to get any one of them lynched (today at least). I was just looking at them since those three were following Legate's example of piecing together the prophecy, but not providing much else.

[Nogrod]

Btw. Eomer, if you're around, would you confirm the votes this far as they have been made in a pretty un-orthodox way? (I mean a tight mod would say they both are invalid as they are not on a separate line, bolded and with two pluses in front of the name)

So is this right?

Samwise -> Brinn
Mith -> Lommy

[Nogrod]

And a second question to Eomer. Do we have more like 20+ minutes or 42 minutes left now at the stamp of this post?

[Kitanna]

And a second question to Eomer. Do we have more like 20+ minutes or 42 minutes left now at the stamp of this post?
Either way the vote count is dismal considering how late in Day 1 it is.

++ Kath
I made a list of the names, closed my eyes, pointed and my finger landed on Kath.

Tomorrow I'd like to see something more on Day 2. This has been an eerily quiet day.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay. Let's sum this up.

I am not going to vote Brinniel, as I belive her explanation was genuine and hope that she'll be present tomorrow. I am not going to vote Rune, I am not going to vote neither Nogrod nor Mithalwen for I have no reason to. I am not going to vote Lommy nor Kitanna, because I don't have any particularly strong case against them. I am not going to vote the newbie Gollum on his first day, and how is that with Gaunt? But probably not as well. I won't vote these non-present ones, as they may still come at least tomorrow and explain what's been going on. Similarly with Kath... and this leaving Gwath, Shasta and Samwise, I probably won't go for Shasta with hope to see the "Shasta awakened" again, as I heard about him... and now I could vote Gwathagor, but that would be more of a "punishment" (being around the whole day and hardly posting), while I do have actual grounds for voting Samwise. As for what I said earlier, this is most probable how it's going to be.

In either case, I don't see it appropriate for any of those voted for already as being lynched now.

EDIT: x-ed with Kitanna

[Gwathagor]

Since I am also a bit confused regarding the DL, I am going to try to vote within the next couple of minutes, just to be safe.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

The votes are fine, Nogrod. I don't mind that they aren't on a separate line or anything like that.

There are fewer than ten minutes left.

[Thinlómien]

Hmmm... I reread the thread and I don't really suspect anyone enough that I would be comfortable with voting them. That's why I'd feel the most comfortable with voting someone who has contributed only a little. I would pardon Brinn and Kath for RL reasons, and Gaunt for newbieishness. Diamond and Groin haven't probably realised this game is going on - even though I did see Groin in "who's online" an hour or two ago and sent him a PM that he should be invisible as the game has started... but yes, I'd "pardon" them too. That kind of leaves Shasta... :rolleyes:

edit: xed with Gwath (yay he's back!) and Eomer

[Nogrod]

An idea just occured to me I wished to share before the Day is over.

Now Eomer said this: Ok, so this game will be a little bit experimental. I, of course, hope it goes swimmingly, but I will beg your forgiveness if it goes wrong. Here's hoping all's well, eh? So it doesn't mean this game is "a little bit experimental" but a lot so!

Now what could it be?

Unleashing three to four teams of two (one each Night) upon a village would be a bit too rough for any village to bear. Even if the last one (the fourth) would be a super-good hero...

But how about we have two lovers brought forwards every Night? "They come in pairs".... Yes, he said on the Night1 post: The two enemies of Wargs may talk and schemeBut an innocent lover might be called that as lovers would be allowed to talk and scheme and the innocent lover's interests would not be that of the Wargs in general...

Three (or four) competing lovers would feel like a possibly balanced game - something one might make the comments Eomer made "hoping all's well, eh?"

Somehow I get the feeling that's something Eomer might be trying.

Sadly there seems to be not enough people around to vote either Lommy or Legate to get rid of the first pair... :D

And this might be a bit far-fetched to be sure. But don't forget the idea!

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Alright nothing is happening and I doubt anything special is going to happen before deadline (whenever that maybe) so I am just going to vote and as a true day 1 vote it is going to have a foundation of sand.

++Mithalwen

This vote is based on the fact that she has posted, but in a rather anomynous way, it is like somethin is not quite right. It is that feeling of somebody trying to fly under the radar. . .raindeer or whatever.
To be fair though I cannot remember how Mith normally play and it is day one so nobody have much to say. (some just use alot of space anyway)

Edit: Cross Posted With Gwathagor and Everybody Since

[Kath]

Haha! Ah Nog you make me laugh. At least I'm only annoying to you on Day 1, you manage it the whole game. :p It is a habit with me to miss Day 1's - perhaps I should hire someone to phone me and remind me! Anyway, I did apologise and look! I made it back in time ... just. Very quick look at what's been going on and then a vote methinks.

Legate - begins with a parody on Day 1 style posting. A lot of analysis on the narration. Now, if there are all this different wolf teams this analysis could come just as easily from a wolf desperate to find out what's going on.

Lommy - 'if we're extra smart and lucky we can win this game easily' ... after explaining the perils of 4 wolves! Strikes me as a little optimistic given the available information. Lommy is being pretty enigmatic actually.

Rune - says different Gifted ideas would be a surprise in this game, I doubt it somehow!

Gollum - hmm.

Shasta - popping in post.

Samwise - not sure what he meant in his first post. That he was the first to post or that he was posting without a chance to later reply to anything?

Gwath - some interesting reasoning about the narration.

Kitanna - seems a bit time limited.

Brinn - I get this not wanting every detail analysed in the narration, it gets just too confusing!

Eek, my computer gives me one minute to vote and I'm not even through page 1 here, so I'm going to have to vote from where I've got to. The only person I read a post from and couldn't really get a lot out of was (hence the 'hmm):

++GOLLUM

[Thinlómien]

Ah the silliness I hate to vote him like this, but...

++Shasta


edit: xed with Kath

[Kath]

Huh, having just looked at when Eomer posted saying there were 10 minutes left and the timestamp on my post it seems I had more time. Sorry for the rushed nature of that post then.

[Nogrod]

Between Shasta and Samwise it's hard to say. Shasta might be innocent because he has not bothered to take part (:mad:) but Samwise tried at least a bit and thence might be a wolf... but it would be bad to kill him just for that... well there's more actually but still.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, whatever. I stick to my before thoughts.

++Samwise

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

The Downs clock is probably causing problems. Remember I'm willing to hold off the deadline for a few minutes to make sure latecomers get the chance to vote.

But not too long, mind you, so hurry!

[Thinlómien]

Huh, having just looked at when Eomer posted saying there were 10 minutes left and the timestamp on my post it seems I had more time. Sorry for the rushed nature of that post then.He said less than 10 minutes and it's past deadline now according to my clock... (so sorry if I'm posting after deadline now :o :) I still didn't get Eomer's exact DL rules...)

edit: xed

[Nogrod]

Okay.

++ Samwise

He might have just tried a bit too much for his own good (looks like someone with a reason to state he's around and plays) but not enough to make him look innocentish...

[Gwathagor]

Oh bother.

++ Kath

[Gollum the Great]

Sorry I haven't spoken much, but I haven't found much to say! Here's my vote:

++Thinlomien

Her first posts were plain queer, and don't find much ground for anyone else.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I think everyone around has got their vote in. Very well: Day is ending, and so voting is now over.

SamwiseGamgee has been lynched and his death-scene shall be posted shortly.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

The Warg Elders had reached an accepted conclusion to the issue of whom to lynch. SamwiseGamgee, one of the mightiest Wargs of this or indeed any age had been chosen, with a mere two votes. But so negligible was the agreement of the council that this was enough to condemn him. Once a huge, monstrous Warg, of terrifying snarl and magnificent bearing, SamwiseGamgee was now ancient beyond the reckoning of human comprehension. No longer brash and vain, he loped forlorn in front of the Elders, unwilling spiritually to come to peace with his doom. His eyes sagged and his great mind pondered the ones whose machinations had led him to this ignoble end.

There were tears in the eyes of some of the others, but some rushed at SamwiseGamgee, in an attempt to rid themselves of the agonising wait. They clattered into the Great Warg, ripping at his flesh – they simply wanted this dreadful fate to be over with.

And they heard his howls of pain, and the words, as if he had just now remembered them: My power was worth more, you should have known; no-one can protect you now. My power is gone from the Elders -- the power to safeguard you from these demons. And I had not the chance to use it...

The Wargs stopped tearing at their dying friend, and shuddered at his grim truth. They had chosen poorly this first day.

---------

The Living

Legate of Amon Lanc
Thinlómien
Kitanna
Kath
Nogrod
Gwathagor
Shastanis Althreduin
Brinniel
Mithalwen
Diamond
Groin Redbeard
Gollum The Great
Rune Son of Bjarne
Gaunt

The Dead

SamwiseGamgee (Guardian)




Night 2 has begun. No talking in the village. Villains, send me a name; Seer, send me a name.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Into the dusk, some Wargs had remained by Eomer’s walls, peering at the markings. There were so many, and so difficult to interpret, for Eomer spoke numerous languages and used various letters and runes to project his mind. More pieces had emerged: Deliverance earned through chance, whatever Wargs are in the time gathered. The carnage begins and the originator steps nearer. Unseen is he who shadows the master. Both march to our bleak axis, the confirmation of our pain, towards the slayers we experience as harrowers.

The morning came, after the Wargs had spent the night with little sleep and less rest. They found her early. Strewn across a huge boulder, was the stretched and torn carcass of Kitanna. Aside from the horrific mutilation she had suffered, no sign of her being anything other than a normal and true Warg Elder was seen.


The Living

Legate of Amon Lanc
Thinlómien
Kath
Nogrod
Gwathagor
Shastanis Althreduin
Brinniel
Mithalwen
Diamond
Groin Redbeard
Gollum The Great
Rune Son of Bjarne
Gaunt

The Dead

SamwiseGamgee (Guardian)
Kitanna (Warg)



Day 2 has begun. Decide among yourself who must die this day. Deadline in 24 hours, give or take a few minutes.

[Nogrod]

I have to wake up in six hours so I'll make this as brief as I can... :p

That was bad! I mean yesterDay...

Does anyone remember someone getting lynched with just two votes on Day1?

The information we can draw from the lynch is even less we might have feared. Basically half of the village got at least one vote... We might as well make a deal that everyone should vote for the one next to her/him in the "living" column. :(

The way both Gollum and Gwath just dropped in without any presence before it and a long time after the deadline - well minutes - looks and feels bad. If you are goodies please join the discussion if you're around and let us others share your thoughts. Knowing you're around and knowing what you think might have led us to another conclusion and maybe... well, maybe we could have voted differently and who knows? But how you performed yesterDay felt sneaky.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

"Deliverance earned through chance, whatever Wargs are in the time gathered. The carnage begins and the originator steps nearer. Unseen is he who shadows the master. Both march to our bleak axis, the confirmation of our pain, towards the slayers we experience as harrowers."

What!!!

I will not even dare guessing at what most of this means. . .

Anyways I don't really have anything to say at this moment, but I wanted to state that I will be around for half an hour or so.

[Gwathagor]

Day 1 Voting
Sam -> Brinniel (Brinniel 1)
Mithalwen -> Thinlomien (Thinlomien 1, Brinniel 1)
Kitanna -> Kath (Kath 1, Thinlomien 1, Brinniel 1)
Rune -> Mithalwen (Mithalwen 1, Kath 1, Thinlomien 1, Brinniel 1)
Kath -> Gollum (Gollum 1, Mithalwen 1, Kath 1, Thinlomien 1, Brinniel 1)
Thinlomien -> Shasta (Shasta 1, Gollum 1, Mithalwen 1, Kath 1, Thinlomien 1, Brinniel 1)
Legate -> Sam (Sam 1, Shasta 1, Gollum 1, Mithalwen 1, Kath 1, Thinlomien 1, Brinniel 1)
Nogrod -> Sam (Sam 2, Shasta 1, Gollum 1, Mithalwen 1, Kath 1, Thinlomien 1, Brinniel 1)
Gwathagor -> Kath (Kath 2, Sam 2, Shasta 1, Gollum 1, Mithalwen 1, Thinlomien 1, Brinniel 1)
Gollum -> Thinlomien (Thinlomien 2, Kath 2, Sam 2, Shasta 1, Gollum 1, Mithalwen 1, Thinlomien 1, Brinniel 1)


I am inclined to think that those who voted against SamGam (Legate and Nogrod) could very well be innocent. Because yesterDay's votes were cast over a broad field, and two other people received the same number of votes as Sam, I do not see any necessary malice or bandwaggoning in Sam's death.

In particular, I doubt that Nogrod is a traitor (I can't really say "wolf"), primarily because I see the willingness to take on the attention and suspicion that comes with being the deciding vote as a sign that he honestly found Sam as likely a candidate as anyone else.

The other possibility is that Brinniel is a traitor and Nogrod was forced to kill someone else in order to save her from the lynch. Otherwise, what would be the purpose of exposing onesself so early on, when it would be equally easy to hide in an obscure vote?

[Groin Redbeard]

Awooooh! Um.... good morning.:D Man it feels weird being a Warg, these fleas are really beginning to get to me.

Well our Were Wargs seem to be playing it safe for the first Night. Although I wasn't here to post yesterDay ( *goes out finds a baseball bat and hits himself* ) I did do a bit of research from Day 1. Kitanna is an absolute random kill, she proved very indecisive yesterDay talking a little bit about Samwise but later casting a vote for Kath.

I have a really bad feeling about Nogrod and I believe that a good deal of trouble would be saved if we just lynch him! :D Then again I always have a bad feeling about Nogrod in WW.

[Thinlómien]

I must agree with Nogrod about yesterDat's lynching... it was rather too random, really. But on the other hand, I think yesterDay was also less informative than Day1s in general, so I would say that is at least a little understandable, if not totally acceptable... ;) And to add to this that we lynched our guardian, it's really just not very impressive. I think the problem was that there was really no discussion in the late minutes, just everybody stating their opinion in no relation to other people's actions...

And I'm a bit baffled by Kitanna's death. I can't think of an apparent reason why she died, especially as she was - at least in a way - suspected quite a lot yesterDay. Was she suspected of seerism or did they kill her to confuse us or something? I should have a look at her posts, maybe, but I'm too tired right now... *yawn* I will go sleep sooner or later, but I might hang around for a short while if there's lively discussion here...

edit: xed with Rune, Gwath and Groin

[Gwathagor]

The way both Gollum and Gwath just dropped in without any presence before it and a long time after the deadline - well minutes - looks and feels bad.

The deadline, for me, is in the middle of the afternoon and thus inconvenient. I was busy right up until when I posted on the thread 20 or so minutes before the deadline - hardly enough time for me to catch up on everything I missed and then form careful opinions of my fellow players. As it was, I ended up voting late and without confidence.

In other words, I was as present yesterDay as I could possibly be. I cannot help that I simply have very very little RL time to spare.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

The deadline, for me, is in the middle of the afternoon and thus inconvenient. I was busy right up until when I posted on the thread 20 or so minutes before the deadline - hardly enough time for me to catch up on everything I missed and then form careful opinions of my fellow players. As it was, I ended up voting late and without confidence.

In other words, I was as present yesterDay as I could possibly be. I cannot help that I simply have very very little RL time to spare.

You might not be able to help it, but if it continues people will find it suspisous since you do have a 24 hour period to pop in and say a few words. . . of course only a few words will not satisfy Nogrod, but maybe it will satisfy some of the other wargs.

Lommy, no matter the motive for the killing of Kitana it was a good kill as we all seem to be clueless over it, I know I am.

[Groin Redbeard]

Gollum: the way you decide to suspect those who have talked the most is generally counter-productive for the village but useful for the wolves. I'm not going to suspect you for it toDay as I think this is your first game (was I right?). But think of it yet again. If we lynch all the talkers on the first Days (and wolves kill the rest during the first Nights) we'll have a village where there is no game - as no one talks - and the wolves are free to roam.
I agree with Nogrod's view on talkative people, but then again who doesn't? It's just common sense what he's stating here to help out a new player, but I didn't like the way that he phrased: "I'm not going to suspect you for toDay..." it sounds too much like "back off or I'll suspect you and lynch you." Possibly protecting another wolf? :eek:

I my view this sounds very wolfish. I'll wait to see what y'all say. :)

EDIT: X'ed with Rune

[Thinlómien]

I agree with Nogrod's view on talkative people, but then again who doesn't? It's just common sense what he's stating here to help out a new player, but I didn't like the way that he phrased: "I'm not going to suspect you for toDay..." it sounds too much like "back off or I'll suspect you and lynch you." Possibly protecting another wolf? :eek:

I my view this sounds very wolfish. I'll wait to see what y'all say. :)I think it sounds very... Nogrodish. ;) It kind of makes sense to give the newbie the first warning before attacking with full force. Although, I must say that Nogrod's habit of threatening to start suspecting people always makes me raise my eyebrows a little... I don't really like it.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I agree with Nogrod's view on talkative people, but then again who doesn't? It's just common sense what he's stating here to help out a new player, but I didn't like the way that he phrased: "I'm not going to suspect you for toDay..." it sounds too much like "back off or I'll suspect you and lynch you." Possibly protecting another wolf? :eek:

I my view this sounds very wolfish. I'll wait to see what y'all say. :)

EDIT: X'ed with Rune

Well, I don't really agree with Nogrod's view on talkative people so I guess I should raise my hand?

Anyways I don't think it seems too "wolfish", it just seems Nogish. He always picks this subject and often warns people of their behaviour and how he is going to suspect them if it does not change.

EDIT: Cross Posted With Thinlo

[Gollum the Great]

The way both Gollum and Gwath just dropped in without any presence before it and a long time after the deadline - well minutes - looks and feels bad.

Sorry about that.

I continue to harbour suspicions regarding Lommy and Legate, though the mechanics and the intricate puzzle of this fascinating game hold me unable to believe anyone much "weirder" or "more suspectable" than anyone else.

P. S. Hail Redbeard!

[Groin Redbeard]

Anyways I don't think it seems too "wolfish", it just seems Nogish. He always picks this subject and often warns people of their behaviour and how he is going to suspect them if it does not change. But there is no reason for Gollum to be suspected. Nogrod, never stated any suspicions before and suddenly he starts become threatening.

When do we draw the line between Nogrodism and Wolfism?;) He is always the perfect wolf because he behaves like a wolf all the time.

EDIT: X'ed with Gollum the Great. Shhh, Gollum, you're making us look suspicious! :D

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I think there's no need for me to second the quite unhelpful, when it comes to evidence, course of events this far. YesterDay's actions and voting give really too little to chew, toNight's kill however maybe could - at least a little. I would like to maybe stop and dig deeper into it, but for now, there's just one point which I can raise from it, which you can find below.

The way both Gollum and Gwath just dropped in without any presence before it and a long time after the deadline - well minutes - looks and feels bad. If you are goodies please join the discussion if you're around and let us others share your thoughts. Knowing you're around and knowing what you think might have led us to another conclusion and maybe... well, maybe we could have voted differently and who knows? But how you performed yesterDay felt sneaky.
However Gwath did explain himself, I'd still appeal on people along the lines of this to actually post during the Day, and give grounds on whom they suspect and why, instead of just appearing at the very DL with "I vote XY". Making a post "I suspect X all of the most, and also maybe Y" does not sure take long, and simply sharing your inner thoughts is a point of this game.

"Deliverance earned through chance, whatever Wargs are in the time gathered. The carnage begins and the originator steps nearer. Unseen is he who shadows the master. Both march to our bleak axis, the confirmation of our pain, towards the slayers we experience as harrowers."

What!!!

I will not even dare guessing at what most of this means. . .
Quite, quite... Not a single word about that. Enough is enough! Howgh (sounds pretty Wargish, actually :D ).

I have a really bad feeling about Nogrod and I believe that a good deal of trouble would be saved if we just lynch him! :D Then again I always have a bad feeling about Nogrod in WW.
Actually, I could second that in a way, but, we all know what - Nogrod is just Nogrod. It's just that the image of him laughing evilly after yesterDay's course of events looks pretty possible to me, but that's of course no grounds for real suspicion.

Although there's one thing, I don't belive Nog-wolf would pick Kitanna for a first kill. That'd really testify strongly against him in my eyes. He would pick some quiet one to "punish" him.

I think today's going to be, for me, more about observation (and that's to hope there will be EVERYBODY posting so that I can observe them), also because I am not sure how much time I'd have during the day to post. But I will show around, definitely. Just not that I'd be overflowing the thread.

EDIT: x-ed since last Gwathagor

[Thinlómien]

Quite, quite... Not a single word about that. Enough is enough! Howgh (sounds pretty Wargish, actually).Actually, I will venture as far as to say just one thing: I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that Eomer enjoyed our confusion a lot yesterDay and is now writing weirder and weirder narrations just in order to confuse us more and amuse himself... :rolleyes::D;)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

But there is no reason for Gollum to be suspected. Nogrod, never stated any suspicions before and suddenly he starts become threatening.

When do we draw the line between Nogrodism and Wolfism?;) He is always the perfect wolf because he behaves like a wolf all the time.

EDIT: X'ed with Gollum the Great. Shhh, Gollum, you're making us look suspicious! :D
I think we should just make a rule bannishing Nogrod from all games from this moment on.

I think today's going to be, for me, more about observation (and that's to hope there will be EVERYBODY posting so that I can observe them), also because I am not sure how much time I'd have during the day to post. But I will show around, definitely. Just not that I'd be overflowing the thread.

So you are warning us that you will lay low today? Is this so that it will be hard for us to blame you for it afterwards?
This way you would be able to lay low with little risk of attracting suspision from us and if you do, you can always refer to the fact that you did warn us.

CUNNING!

EDIT: Cross Posted WIth Lommy Again. . .
(I will be leaving in a few minutes unless something comes up)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Actually, I will venture as far as to say just one thing: I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that Eomer enjoyed our confusion a lot yesterDay and is now writing weirder and weirder narrations just in order to confuse us more and amuse himself... :rolleyes::D;)

I wouldn't say that twice - I thought that as well may have been so.

Anyway, as for this anti-Nogrod front, I am really looking forward to see what he says when he sees this...

edit: x-ed with Runne

[Groin Redbeard]

Actually, I will venture as far as to say just one thing: I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that Eomer enjoyed our confusion a lot yesterDay and is now writing weirder and weirder narrations just in order to confuse us more and amuse himself...

He seems to be contributing to our confusion as much as the Were Wargs have, I can't make heads or tails out of what he's trying to say in the intro's!

I'll be back later. Right now I need to make dinner before my brothers get back. Happy Were Warg hunting! :D

EDIT: X'ed with Legate.

[Gollum the Great]

I can't make heads or tails out of what he's trying to say in the intro's!

You take the words right out of my mouth. I am also eyeing Nogrod with suspicion.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I think we should just make a rule bannishing Nogrod from all games from this moment on.



So you are warning us that you will lay low today? Is this so that it will be hard for us to blame you for it afterwards?
This way you would be able to lay low with little risk of attracting suspision from us and if you do, you can always refer to the fact that you did warn us.

CUNNING!

Now today it is Runne sonn off (sic!) Bjarrne (hey, sounds good enough for a Warg) who's been smoking too much rabbits.

Anniwai (Japanese? Nah, more like some Oceanian dialect), I don't know if you were serious or not, but I am merely saying in other words what everybody, including me, say sometimes, that I won't be as active today as yesterday - because I don't know how much time I'm going to have (which I also said before). But looking at the things, maybe not after all...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

You take the words right out of my mouth. I am also eyeing Nogrod with suspicion.

Okay, care to give a more elaborated explaination why? (As the fact that you say you are suspecting somebody without giving grounds is a) not going to help the others at all, as they cannot compare whether you have a point or not, b) may be taken as a mere whim of a wolf to get rid of somebody without any grounds.)

[Gollum the Great]

Sorry, Legate, it might be described as sort of "gut feeling", but I'm bad at illustrating my own suspicions.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Sorry, Legate, it might be described as sort of "gut feeling", but I'm bad at illustrating my own suspicions.

Okay, at least something. (Be prepared though, that if you use "gut feeling" too often and nothing else for reasoning, you may find yourself being mistrusted soon.)

[Thinlómien]

Why is everybody throwing threats at newbies in this game? :D:p;)

I'm going to sleep now... as a parting comment I will say that I really like the current level of activity, let's hope it keeps up...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Why is everybody throwing threats at newbies in this game?

These are no threats, but well-meant advices. (Even though I may be speaking to a nasty Were-warg... or two ;) )

[Groin Redbeard]

These are no threats, but well-meant advices. (Even though I may be speaking to a nasty Were-warg... or two ;) )

Stop threatening people Legate, or I'll suspect you! ;)

[Brinniel]

My, my, yesterDay was a disaster. The voting was way too spread out. The fact that Samwise was lynched because he was the first to hit a three-way tie is plain ridiculous. Nothing good ever comes of something like that. And I'm sad to see Samwise go...not only because he was a gifted but he was a member I've never played with before and would've liked to.

YesterDay also seemed strangely quiet. I know I'm one of those to blame (due to RL), and I understand others have RL confliccts too...but of course it makes it easier for a baddie to hide among the quiet.

Again, I apologise for not voting. It was so early in the Day and I had not the slightest idea who to vote for...if I made a completely random vote, I was worried I might be partially responsible for getting an innocent lynched. It would've been just distracting for me to point a finger at someone when I didn't have anyone to point a finger at. While I'd like to be more active toDay, I can't make any promises. RL has been quite stressful, and when I signed up for this game I didn't know that this week would be so busy for me. However, I will definitely vote toDay and if I'm still alive Day 3, I know for sure I'll be able to participate more.

[Gwathagor]

You might not be able to help it, but if it continues people will find it suspisous since you do have a 24 hour period to pop in and say a few words. . .

Too bad. I'll be here as much as I can.

Thinlomien strikes me as much more giddy, both toDay and yesterDay, than usual. I think it was commented on yesterDay, and I didn't think much of it, but then I noticed again toDay that she seems extra-ordinarily exuberant. It could be that she is employing a different playing style just for the heck of it, or she could be using it as a cover.

How likely is it that Eomer would have made one of our new players a werewolf? I'm not well enough acquainted with him to know whether or not I should consider it a likelihood/possibility.

[Diamond18]

Oh look.... a werewolf game.

I have arrived!

!

Why is no one else excited? Oh well. Sorry about being absent, and all that rot. I haven't even cracked open my computer in ...four days? Has it been that long? Yikes. I didn't realize the game had started. Well anyway, I haven't really read anything in the game to know what's going on, except that I am apparently still "in the game" as it were. So I have nothing useful to say besides announcing my own effervescent presence.

[Gwathagor]

Hello Diamond18.

EDIT: We haven't heard from Gaunt yet toDay, have we? Gaunt? You there?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Between Shasta and Samwise it's hard to say. Shasta might be innocent because he has not bothered to take part (:mad:) but Samwise tried at least a bit and thence might be a wolf... but it would be bad to kill him just for that... well there's more actually but still.

I apologize for not being here. We're going into the run of our show (you theatre people know what I mean!) and it's been tech week, and thus hectic and crazy. I'm lucky if I get four hours of sleep a night... and it will probably be this way for the next week. I'll still be around, but don't expect too much.

That said...

WHAT? You lynched our ranger Day 1? Oy gevault. *dies*

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, seems at least people are showing up. A short comment for now - Brinniel is making me uneasy even with her comments as short as they were till now; where I would like to see her participate more, she is making me suspect her merely by her un-conflict-y phrasing, which makes me think of her like that she's simply trying to say nothing that might catch the attention of the crowd. We'll see whether there's more grounds to suspect her later on; I am not sure if I'd vote for her right now, but perhaps if there's just a few posts more to consider and they'd be in a similar tone... Is this the old "Brinniel rule"? ("Brinniel is to be lynched early in the game, and she will be revealed innocent; however if she survives past Day 3, she's a Wolf.") As for Lommy and her possibly weird playing style, I can't say now that it's something which would make me suspect her, but at the same time I must of course reflect on that. Actually, I think that I have to yet form my opinion on that completely from scratch, as I honestly don't recall whether she'd act like that any time before. I think not, but then again, she did not act like that when she was an Ordo, but also not even when she was a Wolf, etc. So if there's something weird in her style, not sure how to classify it.

Oh, and

How likely is it that Eomer would have made one of our new players a werewolf? I'm not well enough acquainted with him to know whether or not I should consider it a likelihood/possibility.
That's pretty meta-game thinking, and I am not sure if it'd be adviseable to use it here as any evidence. He may also have picked his choices completely randomly. I really wouldn't bring this up here.

I'll be hopefully around in, say, four hours (if the school library is empty enough), and after that only shortly before the DL, as it seems. Till later...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Again, I apologise for not voting. It was so early in the Day and I had not the slightest idea who to vote for...if I made a completely random vote, I was worried I might be partially responsible for getting an innocent lynched. It would've been just distracting for me to point a finger at someone when I didn't have anyone to point a finger at. While I'd like to be more active toDay, I can't make any promises. RL has been quite stressful, and when I signed up for this game I didn't know that this week would be so busy for me. However, I will definitely vote toDay and if I'm still alive Day 3, I know for sure I'll be able to participate more.

I have a problem with this part of Brinn's post, why is she appoligsing and not sticking to her guns instead? I mean it is one thing if you by accident do not vote and then the next day appoligise for it, but not voting was choise she made and if she thought it was the right thing to do yesterday then surely that has not changed?

Also I would like to make it clear that by not voting you are actually more responsible for getting an innocent lynched than if you made a seemingly random vote, because even though one feel like it is random it is always based on something. . . it might be tone in the post or some other small thing, but at least you tried to get a traitor and there is more chance of you saving an innocent by voting than by not voting.

All this being said; it is not that I am heavily suspecting Brinn, it is more that I think she acted wrongly.

[Thinlómien]

I don't really understand this "oh Lommy plays so differently" stuff. Quite a many people seem to think so, and as I do not think there are any grounds to think so, it strikes me as a little furry. This looks like the classic case of an innocent stating a weird opinion and the wolves following it because they don't realise it's a weird opinion because they are evil and thus their brain is not for real in the wolf-seeking mode or then they just one to get someone lynched, or something. That is to say that I wouldn't be surprised at all to find a wolf among those who talk about my changed playing style. In my opinion, I'm not playing any differently than before (unless you're all still talking about that accusation-throwing post, which was an intentional try at that kind of discussion-stirring) and just for your information, I'm not trying a new style to confuse you or to amuse myself. If there really is a difference in my playing style, it's totally unintentional. You may draw your conclusions from that.

In particular, I doubt that Nogrod is a traitor (I can't really say "wolf"), primarily because I see the willingness to take on the attention and suspicion that comes with being the deciding vote as a sign that he honestly found Sam as likely a candidate as anyone else. Yes, I think the fact that he voted someone who had already been voted for looks rather innocent in this company... it was a more constructive thing to do than throwing in a new name would have been.

The other possibility is that Brinniel is a traitor and Nogrod was forced to kill someone else in order to save her from the lynch. Otherwise, what would be the purpose of exposing onesself so early on, when it would be equally easy to hide in an obscure vote?I think that sounds a little far-fetched, all in all. I wouldn't call Nogrod's actions "exposing oneself" nor would I give them such importance. I think he might have very well voted Samwise as a wolf even if Brinn wasn't his fellow.


edit: xed with Rooney

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I have a problem with this part of Brinn's post, why is she appoligsing and not sticking to her guns instead? I mean it is one thing if you by accident do not vote and then the next day appoligise for it, but not voting was choise she made and if she thought it was the right thing to do yesterday then surely that has not changed?

Also I would like to make it clear that by not voting you are actually more responsible for getting an innocent lynched than if you made a seemingly random vote, because even though one feel like it is random it is always based on something. . . it might be tone in the post or some other small thing, but at least you tried to get a traitor and there is more chance of you saving an innocent by voting than by not voting.

All this being said; it is not that I am heavily suspecting Brinn, it is more that I think she acted wrongly.

Hmm... actually, only one comment to this one post of Rune's, that's again what I said in the beginning, when I said he seems too reasonable... now he seems rather too... "just", or how to say that. I mean, he looks like the "wise judge" in this game, don't you think? I don't know what to make out of it, though, but it may be a pose - good for a Wolf, of course.

I don't really understand this "oh Lommy plays so differently" stuff. Quite a many people seem to think so, and as I do not think there are any grounds to think so, it strikes me as a little furry. This looks like the classic case of an innocent stating a weird opinion and the wolves following it because they don't realise it's a weird opinion because they are evil and thus their brain is not for real in the wolf-seeking mode or then they just one to get someone lynched, or something. That is to say that I wouldn't be surprised at all to find a wolf among those who talk about my changed playing style. In my opinion, I'm not playing any differently than before (unless you're all still talking about that accusation-throwing post, which was an intentional try at that kind of discussion-stirring) and just for your information, I'm not trying a new style to confuse you or to amuse myself. If there really is a difference in my playing style, it's totally unintentional. You may draw your conclusions from that.
Okay, well, now that sounded like the "classic" Lommy :D But honestly, I don't think it was that strong as for example Mith or Gwath now seemed to imply, but you were a little different than before. And that was not the first post only, but sometimes the others, too - a "funny" tone, in a way.

But, speaking of that - could it be that for example Gwath did jump on this train "Lommy seems to be referred to as weird, let's join the club, if there's a decision later to lynch her, I will merely stay within the crowd unnoticed"? His last post made me think about that a bit.


In particular, I doubt that Nogrod is a traitor (I can't really say "wolf"), primarily because I see the willingness to take on the attention and suspicion that comes with being the deciding vote as a sign that he honestly found Sam as likely a candidate as anyone else.Yes, I think the fact that he voted someone who had already been voted for looks rather innocent in this company... it was a more constructive thing to do than throwing in a new name would have been.

Well, personally I don't think this is a reason for him to look innocent; now especially now we are talking about Nogrod - and he may as well have voted somebody who was already voted for rather than to cast a random vote, don't you think? This is not to say that I think it makes him guilty, but I am negating the idea of that this would be something which I would consider a plus for the thought of him being innocent.

Hmm, so what. Now this was only two new posts since my last one. I'm gonna stick around hopefully for yet about half an hour, but then will be back only at the DL - of course the main host of posts will come then... well, but what can I do. Anyway, I will have perhaps time to think, although only in my head, about whom I should vote for today. *looks around for a printer so that he can read the thread in the tram - or during the courses* ;) (no, of course, that would be silly! :D )

[Gaunt]

Hello All,

Apologies for my lack of participation thus far - I have been very busy.

Anyway, I feel pity for Samwise Gamgee - it was almost as if just by making himself noticed he aroused suspicion (for two people at least!) rather than by actually saying anything that was genuinely suspicious. Being new to this lark I don't really have much of a suspicion about anyone at this stage, but I will read over the posts in more detail and try to come up with something.

[Mithalwen]

Well Gaunt it seems we have a set up unknown to any of us here so you may not be at a disadvantage!!!

That prophecy is creeping me out but having the kind of brain that finds word puzzles too fascinating I fear it may become a distraction. It is certainly unusual for someone to get lynched on 2 votes.

And Groin seems to have taken up my mantle of wanting Nogrod dead just to help clear the mind!!!

I have about another half hour now and plan to return till the end after work but I seem to be incubating a head cold so if I can't "head it off at the pass" I may have to curtail again... hope not but if my head is still cottonwooly I won't be much help. :(

[Gaunt]

Ok, I think I am starting to get the hang of this now.

As far as I can see suspicion is divided into two categories:

1. Suspicion based on heavy participation and aggressive or at least confident accuastions and public theorising (this type of suspicion seems to me what led to the lynching of Samwise and suspicions now being directed at Nogrod)

2. Suspicion based on light or non participation

Regarding the first theory, Nogrod is, it seems, the prime suspect at present. Now, judging by the other posts, he is behaving in the way he normally does when playing werewolf. However, i'm not convinced by Legate's theory below:

Although there's one thing, I don't belive Nog-wolf would pick Kitanna for a first kill. That'd really testify strongly against him in my eyes. He would pick some quiet one to "punish" him.

If he is a werewolf, wouldn't it make sense for him to kill someone who had been involved? That way he gets rid of a player who is more likely to successfully analyse his behaviour, and creates the impression of one of the quieter players lurking in the shadows, picking off the more talkative wargs. And by decrying their non-involvement and threatening to vote for them, he further polarises the group and hopes to direct suspicion on to those quieter wargs.

Even as I write this i'm not sure, but it does seem very convenient that his past reputation in the game clears him from suspicion in the eyes of some.

More thought is required.

As for the second theory, it doesn't give us much to go on - how are we too choose between the players who have not been heavily involved? The only way I can think is by anlysing the posts they have made explaining why they have not, or will not, be posting very much. But I for one would not be confident enough to make a prediction based on this

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Hmm... actually, only one comment to this one post of Rune's, that's again what I said in the beginning, when I said he seems too reasonable... now he seems rather too... "just", or how to say that. I mean, he looks like the "wise judge" in this game, don't you think? I don't know what to make out of it, though, but it may be a pose - good for a Wolf, of course.


That is because I am wise, my dear Legate.

Anyways you will be happy to know that you are probably the one I am most confused about, surely that must be some sort of ego-booster.

That is to say that I wouldn't be surprised at all to find a wolf among those who talk about my changed playing style

Is this because you find it supicous that people think your style has changed or because you think it would be easy for a wolf to join the choir?

To be honest; in the begining I was thinking "Is this how Lommy normaly acts"

Moving on. . . Something that scares me is how little I suspect Nogrod, normally I always find him slightly wicked-ish, but not this time. Maybe it is because I have gotten used to his style or maybe it is because he is actually evil this time around.

Anyways I am very sorry, but I will have to vote early today as we have a staff meeting at work today and I am not sure it will finnish in time for the deadline. . . also we might want to grap a beer after the meeting.

So you can expect my vote within 2 hours.

EDIT: Cross Posted With Gaunt

[Brinniel]

Is this the old "Brinniel rule"? ("Brinniel is to be lynched early in the game, and she will be revealed innocent; however if she survives past Day 3, she's a Wolf.")
Hey, I've made it past Day 3 and have been innocent before. Of course I usually wind up being a misguided ordo who suspects all the wrong people...so maybe you should just lynch me. :rolleyes:

Also I would like to make it clear that by not voting you are actually more responsible for getting an innocent lynched than if you made a seemingly random vote, because even though one feel like it is random it is always based on something. . . it might be tone in the post or some other small thing, but at least you tried to get a traitor and there is more chance of you saving an innocent by voting than by not voting.
But the problem is I really had nobody. No one single post caught my eye as suspicious. My random vote would've literally been random...I would've closed my eyes and pointed at a name. That's not a fair way to vote which is why I didn't do it, and I truly didn't have time to consider my options. Surely if I had voted, I would probably be criticised for my choice and how I went about it....so it's a lose-lose situation for me.

Something's wrong with me...I can't seem form opinions of anyone still. My brain must be exhausted. I might be around later, but I can't be sure so I think I'll vote soon. But who to vote for? Hmmm. I might just have to use the process of elimination to come to a decision..

[Mithalwen]

I don't really understand this "oh Lommy plays so differently" stuff. Quite a many people seem to think so, and as I do not think there are any grounds to think so, it strikes me as a little furry.

Well I still think it was odd, I stand by that. And if noticing stuff that genuinely seems odd makes me look treacherous I'll take my chances. You seem to be protesting too much .. I might have forgotten about it if you hadn't dragged it up again.

Time for work...

[Nogrod]

How sweet and familiar this feels again! I mean I was getting worried yesterDay when basically no one wished to see me to the gallows! That was weird. :rolleyes:

But now as everything is back to normal... I'll start playing. :cool:

Two or four werewolves, together or against each other - or two pairs of lovers, or whatever, we need to start catching them.

I'll start with looking at that "wannabe-bandwagon". It looks too delicious for a careless baddie not to take part in...

[Nogrod]

If he is a werewolf, wouldn't it make sense for him to kill someone who had been involved? That way he gets rid of a player who is more likely to successfully analyse his behaviour, and creates the impression of one of the quieter players lurking in the shadows, picking off the more talkative wargs.
Sure, that would make sense but it would also be the most unsporty way of playing this game. I mean there are result-oriented players who only care for the win and then those who like a good game whatever the end-result. I'm definitively of the latter type. What's the fun in a quiet village where there is nothing to play?

Which brings me to this next one:As for the second theory, it doesn't give us much to go on - how are we too choose between the players who have not been heavily involved? The only way I can think is by anlysing the posts they have made explaining why they have not, or will not, be posting very much. But I for one would not be confident enough to make a prediction based on thisExactly! That is why I like to press those non-players as much as I can (call it threatening if you wish - to me it's a way of trying to make them post and talk eg. to play in the first place) and if there is no better candidate I'm more than willing to lynch them so that there would be an actual game in the end - if I ever make it there myself or not.

The problem with this inbalance is that it's always easier to find this or that from someone who actually posts a lot than from one who just says "Hi, let's bag the wolves". As you Gaunt said, the latter "cause" doesn't make one confident with one's vote.

[Brinniel]

Process of elimination....

Legate of Amon Lanc
Thinlómien
Kath
Nogrod
Gwathagor
Shastanis Althreduin
Brinniel
Mithalwen
Diamond
Groin Redbeard
Gollum The Great
Rune Son of Bjarne
Gaunt

I'd rather not see another player I've never played with go so soon. I don't know their styles, so I want to give Gollum and Gaunt a chance.

Di's hardly been here, so I won't vote her.

As tempted as I am to vote Rune, it probably for the simple reason that it is Rune. :p But I always suspect him and he ends up innocent...I don't think I've ever played with him when he was a wolf. I have no reason to vote him.

Mith seems the most innocent to me. Nogrod can be a dangerous wolf, but a helpful innocent....I'd rather not lynch him this early. Poor Shasta always gets lynched early and turns out innocent...I don't really know about him, but I'd like to give him at least another Day. Same goes with Kath...she keeps dying so early, I'd like to see her actually play before voting her.

That leaves:

Lommy
Legate
Gwath
Groin

Hmmm... Crap. I'm gonna be late to class...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

But the problem is I really had nobody. No one single post caught my eye as suspicious. My random vote would've literally been random...I would've closed my eyes and pointed at a name. That's not a fair way to vote which is why I didn't do it, and I truly didn't have time to consider my options. Surely if I had voted, I would probably be criticised for my choice and how I went about it....so it's a lose-lose situation for me.

A vote will always be more fair than no vote, maybe not to the one voted on, but to the rest of us wargs.
Anyways I shall drop this subject now and move on.

Which brings me to this next one:Exactly! That is why I like to press those non-players as much as I can (call it threatening if you wish - to me it's a way of trying to make them post and talk eg. to play in the first place) and if there is no better candidate I'm more than willing to lynch them so that there would be an actual game in the end - if I ever make it there myself or not.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Gaunt]

Nogrod: "Sure, that would make sense but it would also be the most unsporty way of playing this game. I mean there are result-oriented players who only care for the win and then those who like a good game whatever the end-result. I'm definitively of the latter type. What's the fun in a quiet village where there is nothing to play"

Fair point Nogrod, but I believe, and think someone like you would also believe, that a game only really works if people play competitively to the best of their abilities. Now if you, who I gather to be an experienced werewolf player, knew that you could do something to improve your chances of winning, I think you would do it, and in that light I see your claim to just be in it for a good game to be insincere, and a futher attempt to throw people off. I think you would really think that people trying to win MAKES for a good game.

Or I could be completely over-analysing this.

[Gwathagor]

Good morning, everyone. I am here and I am reading.

[Nogrod]

Now if you, who I gather to be an experienced werewolf player, knew that you could do something to improve your chances of winning, I think you would do it
...
I think you would really think that people trying to win MAKES for a good game.First sentence: I agree in part; the second one: agreed fully. A game where there is winning and losing isn't a good game if someone tries to lose in purpose. But playing by trying to only maximise one's chances of winning or staying alive is not my piece of cake. *maybe that's the reason I never became an investment banker* :D

When I'm a wolf I want to have challenges and keep the dangerous players around - then I either lose with dignity and pride or win with the greatest spoils there are. When innocent I try to keep the discussion going, suspecting everyone as much as I can to really open the discussions and to help other people who will actually play and not just hun'ker down to stay alive - it oftentimes leads to an untimely death because I'm not rubbing all the people the nice way, but it has been worth it if it's been fun or if it later helps the village to find out the culprits.

Or I could be completely over-analysing this.
The level of analysing is fine. It's very good indeed! But you only over-estimate my thrive to win with any means. :)

[Nogrod]

Okay, Groin would you mind answering a question or two?

You've had quite a crusade on me toDay but I really can't find any reasons why that is. Looking at your determination with it one would think you had something.

First: if you "have always a bad feeling about me in WW" then how do you justify that to yourself as a reason to suspect me in any given particular game?

Now let me give you a suggestion and do answer if you feel you need to. An innocent needs to be careful not to help in lynching an innocent and will thence be a bit careful with his suspicions - not that we shouldn't suspect everyone, on the contrary that's what we need to do - but an innocent should not monomaniacally go after one person if there is no good reason for it. Were you a wolf or a no-brainer (which I know you are not) I could understand the way you play...

Secondly: you say "He is always the perfect wolf because he behaves like a wolf all the time". I'm still waiting for any clarification on that matter both generally and even more so in this game in particular... It's easy to say "X doesn't sit right with me" or "I'm feling bad about Y" or "Z behaves like a wolf" if that's all you say. It requires some actual playing to then elaborate why. But looking at the situation where this was said suggests the intent of the comment was not so much to give further arguments to lynch me (that would clarify or add to the reasons for it) but to just keep up the spirit / discussion of lynching me. An innocent doesn't behave that way if he doesn't have a strong case - or at least I can't see the rationale behind that from an innocent.

So are you a wolf then?


Gollum: I said yesterDay that I won't be suggesting lynching you in your first game just because you decided to make your only suspicion on those that had been the only talkers - without any other reason. But it looks like you are continuing the game in the same mode, not giving forwards even a tiny little bit of reason for your suspicions. Please speak. No "threats" this time. I think I need not do that any more... ;)


Reading through that wannabe-bandwagon gave me bad news as well. Looking at the way Lommy, Legate and Rune go to and fro there between being nice and considerate and backtracking a bit to keep the issue alive fits perfectly with the way a wolf would act... :eek:

Okay that's for that thing. When I come back I hope there are other issues to tackle as this may be more or less wasting time.


And to add...

Gwath's explanation is taken in and his status in my suspicion-list has fallen back to where it was yesterDay. Also Mith seems innocentish alongside Brinn (I don't see where you guys see her suspicious - nice, yes, but the RL explanations are too convincing as she wouldn't be that unsporty). Also Gaunt looks very good right now.

Of Di, Kath and Shasta I have nothing to say... for the obvious reason. Let's hope they can change that before the Day draws to a close.

[Gwathagor]

I don't really understand this "oh Lommy plays so differently" stuff. Quite a many people seem to think so, and as I do not think there are any grounds to think so, it strikes me as a little furry. This looks like the classic case of an innocent stating a weird opinion and the wolves following it because they don't realise it's a weird opinion because they are evil and thus their brain is not for real in the wolf-seeking mode or then they just one to get someone lynched, or something. That is to say that I wouldn't be surprised at all to find a wolf among those who talk about my changed playing style. In my opinion, I'm not playing any differently than before (unless you're all still talking about that accusation-throwing post, which was an intentional try at that kind of discussion-stirring) and just for your information, I'm not trying a new style to confuse you or to amuse myself. If there really is a difference in my playing style, it's totally unintentional. You may draw your conclusions from that.



This could also be a sneaky werewolf tactic for reversing suspicion from yourself on to your accusers.


Groin, you said: "Shhh, Gollum, you're making us look suspicious! :D"

I'd say you've been around long enough to attempt reverse psychology. Is that what's going on here?

EDIT: Crossed with Nogrod

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Alright, I am running late and have little idea who to vote for, but hopefully I will by the end of this post.

Lets start with the people I am not going to vote for:

Groin: He has this air of innocens around him. . . It is not that I agree with him as such, but it is the fact that he does not seem the least bit manipulative.

Kath: It is annoying that she is not around, but I really want her around at least for another day.

Nogrod: Because he seem very Nogrod-ish and this normaly means he is innocent, but I am probably going to change my mind later in the game. . .I mean it is Nogrod.

Gaunt:I need more time to analyse

Lommy: A mixture of what I said about Nogrod and Gaunt.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Might vote for:

Mithalwen: She does the same as yesterday, she is hear says some not too controversial things and the nothing. (unless you count that thing about Lommy acting weird as controversial) Whenever I encounter this I get a fear that people are trying to fly under the radar, I might vote for her again today.

Brinn: She insists on not voting and then appologises, says she has to vote soon because of RL things and then seems to leave. I might have misunderstood her though. Does some of the same as Mith, take that middle ground where you are not vocal and not non-vocal.

Legate: He just confuses me, I simply cannot get a read on him. . .but since I have no actual case other than that it seems unfair to vote for him at this stage.

Allright I am going to go for Mith again . . . . It is not a personal thing, but I just haven't had the chance to do proper analysing today. (one should not think so with all the posts)

++Mithalwen
[/FONT]

EDIT: Cross Posted With Nogrod and Gwath

[Gwathagor]

You've had quite a crusade on me toDay but I really can't find any reasons why that is. Looking at your determination with it one would think you had something.

Wow, Nogrod. Looking back over toDay's posts, you're certainly right about that. When Groin says anything at all, it's usually about you. Huh.

[Diamond18]

I've only had time to skim the posts, and unfortunately I have a lot of stuff to do today before work but I'll try to check back in with a vote. I hope to have time to read more and find something to base it on, but I don't know. :( Sorry for not being around at all; busy RL has collided with a bad cold and left WW in the lurch.

[Brinniel]

Phew, I made it back. And I barely made it to class on time. :rolleyes:

I was going to vote then, but as you can see I ran out of time. Now I have some extra time on my hands...not much, but at least a little more time to consider who I should vote for.

[Mithalwen]

Great - Rune has voted for me for having a job. Or maybe being ill or having to spend time with the Ancient Parent on his birthday. Fantastic.

May as well go home now and be ill in comfort. Frankly it does seems personal. "It isn't personal" it is -one of those phrases where the meaning is the exact opposite of the literal semantics like "With the greatest respect", "it's not you, it's me", "I'm FINE". And if I seem irritable - that is because I am. Fever and nausea does that to you.

[Gaunt]

I am not going to vote for Nogrod today, I think. I will give it some more time to see if he is innocent or if he is manipulating me very skillfully.

And part of my reason for this is that Redbeard does seem to have made the case against Nogrod based on little more than him once lightly criticising a player for not taking part enough.

Hmm

[Brinniel]

The age old question: Can we ever get through a WW game without the quiet/loud player debate? I think it can be mutually agreed that wolves can fall into either category just as easily... :rolleyes:

Okay, as far as voting candidates go (coming from my earlier process of elimination):

Lommy: I actually agree with others that she does seem to be acting a bit differently. I don't know what it is...perhaps her tone. In earlier days I probably would've thought this suspicous...but then I think back to a couple games ago when Lommy was a wolf, yet seemed so innocent to me...she actually managed to fly under the radar in that game. And this time it's completely different. I almost want to say that there's a cobblerish feel to her posts, but we don't even know if there is a cobbler. But as of right now, she just doesn't look furry to me.

Legate: I think the same thing can be said of him as I said about Nogrod: He's dangerous as a wolf, but very helpful as an innocent. I can't get a good read on him right now, but I can't help but feel wary. I know how a Legate-wolf can easily fool an entire village.

Gwath: Looking through his posts toDay, I think he seems innocentish. I just feel that there's an honest quality about him.

Groin: Not so innocent, I feel. From the very beginning of toDay, his arguments just feel fabricated and his tone false. I don't know exactly how to describe it, but his words just seem too carefully placed.

[Gaunt]

More thoughts on the Nogrod-Redbeard axis.

Having read over the posts again, I am still suspicious of Nogrod. His actions (and possible actions) so far, when viewed together strike me as forming a pattern that could be, and I don't say definitely is, a werewolf strategy.

I have already discussed his mild hostility towards light participants. But he voted for Samwise - one of the clearest voices on the first day. If we assume he is a werewolf and he killed Kitanna, there is another attack on a player whose contribution, if not the most prominent, was certainly visible.

So the strategy that I propose he may be following is this: pick off strong players one by one whilst gently convincing others to vote for the less prominent wargs. This seems to work because a lot of the experienced players have a hard time suspecting him of anything because they see this as the way he always behaves. That may be so, but observe that his vote didn't exactly follow the message he has been putting across in his posts.

As for Redbeard, whilst he may be right in suspecting Nogrod, I don't think he suspects him for the right reasons. He just seemed to single-mindedly launch into his attacks on Nogrod without a great deal of evidence. If he had made the case as I have above then I would have been more convinced. But that's not to say that I necessarily think there is much reason to believe Redbeard is a werewolf. I'm trying to think why he would be targeting Nogrod if he was a werewolf. I suppose he could just be turning on an outspoken player to take attention away from himself.

[Brinniel]

A lot of my suspicion or non-suspicion toDay has to do with tone. I don't have time to throroughly read each post and pick out specific quotes I find odd as one might normally do. But then again, tone is an important part of this game. Sometimes it's easier to spot a wolf not based on what they say, but how they say it. Which is why I'm voting for:

++Groin

Because as I stated, there's something in his tone that seems false to me.

That's it from me...I must be off to class again. I hope I'll still be alive come toMorrow so that I can actually participate. I just feel bad when I'm not able to be as active as I normally am...and I hate having to vote so early (there you go, typical procrastinator mindset :rolleyes: ).

[Gollum the Great]

I have returned.

Looking at "The Prophecy Thingamijig Part II", it seems that if the true wargs gather together (which seems pretty hard to do) our deliverance will be through chance. The originator of the evil at this gathering is coming closer (closer, perhaps, to revealing himself) but someone is following him. These two- the originator and the follower- are both marching on the axis- apparently our traitors.

Just my interpretation.

[Kath]

Hi all. I'm going to make a couple of posts before dinner and then hopefully I'll be able to be around right up until the deadline. I want to look at what Samwise said yesterDay and how and by whom it got him killed. I'd also like to look at what Kitanna said yesterDay because her death does seem pretty random and I somehow doubt that it really was. Then with what I get from those I'll have a look at what's been going on toDay.

Yeah, you probably didn't actually need to know all that but I figured I'd let you know that I am around and doing something.

[Mithalwen]

I resisted teh temptation to go home in a fit of pique but I feel quite rubbish. Will have a read and try to make a sensible vote before I go .

[Kath]

Samwise:

Arrived pretty early on and began disecting Eomer's narrations. Said 'at the risk of becoming prominent'. I didn't think much about that yesterDay but now given then knowledge of his role I wonder whether a wolf might have picked up on it.

Lommy says she recalls spotting him as a wolf before - possibly setting herself up with something to fall back on if she's a wolf and needs a scapegoat.

Kitanna has him as undecided in her thoughts, maybe she was simply a kill with no trail.

Ah! Nogrod noticed the prominent thing - but I think put a different interpretation on it.

Has as suspicious: Legate, Rune, Brinn, Lommy, Shasta , Nogrod

Has as innocent: Gwath, Kitanna

The rest he seems pretty unsure about. Then votes Brinn because he doesn't want to wonder why the baddies would leave her alive. It's odd reasoning for a vote to me ... I can see why this would have made him suspicious to innocents and interesting to wolves.

Legate went straight from Samwise not standing out to suddenly doing so for being contrary, voting safely (I must disagree here, if the person was a safe vote the manner of it certainly wasn't!), repeating that we shouldn't focus on the prophecy. I'm not quite sure I understand his being contrary thing - especially that quote he has about Gwath. Gwath shows independent thinking and is applauded for that by being thought of as innocent - hardly seems being nice with a twist of suspicion. Perhaps this is Day 1 suspicion, making the most of the little you have - or it may be me reading it with the knowledge of the outcome.

Nog still making a big thing about 'prominent' and Samwise's answer to that being picked up. I think the confusion must result from the language barrier because it seems obvious to me that Samwise was saying he had been worried about getting noticed for having too much content in his post and then found that Nogrod picked him up for not having enough in there to warrant the prominent comment. Given, say, Lommy's post which I think came before Samwise's I can see his point somewhat if he'd only seen character based babble before posting.

Kitanna had some very good points on Samwise's vote. Why was Brinn being left alive any more important than anyone else being left alive. He can have had no more information than anyone else unless the Ranger had powers we don't know about.

Legate says he's likely to vote Samwise.

Now, having focused on Samwise earlier, Nog suddenly puts him in the same category as me when trying to work out his role, simply giving him a 'so?' which seems pretty odd.

Kitanna repeats that Samwise looks odd but decides that the recklessness of the vote means he is unlikely to be a wolf.

Really odd reasoning from Legate about his vote. He had reasons for voting Samwise, and yet felt it necessary to explain why he was discounting everyone else. If Samwise was the only person he had real suspicions of, why go through the motions?

Nogrod is now suddenly back to having Samwise as a possible wolf when he'd previously been a huh?

Legate votes Samwise.

Nogrod votes Samwise.

Soo, from this. Lommy, Kitanna, Nogrod and Legate were the only ones who had any real contact with him or spoke much about him. Lommy I'm unsure about here, I don't think she interacted with him enough to bother looking at it in great depth. Kitanna I am inclined to think actually may have thought Samwise was Gifted and backed off once she'd figured that out. Legate is consistent and does find adequate reasons for suspicion, I don't like his vote explanation but that could just be his style. Nogrod I don't like for his flip-flopping.

So out of the two that voted for him I would put Nog as the wolvish one, but I wouldn't discount Legate.

Right, off to look at Kitanna, hopefully will get that done before dinner.

Oh, and might I say having only just noticed - Lommy ... Kathie? Please no. Kat, Kath, Kate, Katy, Katherine, oy you, any of them, but please don't make me sound like some middle aged person trying to sound young!

[Thinlómien]

Well, personally I don't think this is a reason for him to look innocent; now especially now we are talking about Nogrod - and he may as well have voted somebody who was already voted for rather than to cast a random vote, don't you think? This is not to say that I think it makes him guilty, but I am negating the idea of that this would be something which I would consider a plus for the thought of him being innocent.Well, now that you made me think more about it, I think you're right. I think I was confusing the most reasonable thing to do with the most innocent thing to do - or simply, I felt good about Nogrod not introducing a new candidate so I instinctively thought him innocentish.

Groin, you said: "Shhh, Gollum, you're making us look suspicious! "
I'd say you've been around long enough to attempt reverse psychology. Is that what's going on here?I think you're making too much out of a joke, Gwathie...

Is this because you find it supicous that people think your style has changed or because you think it would be easy for a wolf to join the choir?Both. The whole false-seeming notion could be of wolvish origin, but more importantly, it's the kind of nonsense a wolf would join in and support. So the latter more than the earlier.

I don't really find anyone suspicious right now... :( If I had to throw in a few names, I would say Brinn, Gwath and Mith are as close as it gets but I don't really suspect them either. I will have to think about this more - I think I will make a list.

And what I'm going to do next is having a look at Kit's posts. It has waited for too long.


edit: xed with Kath

[Groin Redbeard]

Okay, Groin would you mind answering a question or two?

You've had quite a crusade on me toDay but I really can't find any reasons why that is. Looking at your determination with it one would think you had something.

First: if you "have always a bad feeling about me in WW" then how do you justify that to yourself as a reason to suspect me in any given particular game?

I have given a reason: the way that you told Gollum to back off, but like you said that is a pretty flimsy excuse and you're right that was not the real reason why I made a "crusade" against you on toDay. :D

Like I said before I have bad feelings about you in WW, this being from what I saw in the last game we played together, so I decided to see if you are a Were Warg by trying to cause you to slip. The obvious way of doing this is to accuse you right on, very loudly I might add,;) so that you will start pointing fingers and hopefully someone who is better acquainted with you Were Warg personality would jump on you *smiles an evil smile.* However, the more esteemed players seem to have low suspicions of you, so there might be no real danger.

EDIT: X'ed with Thinlomien

[Kath]

Kitanna:

Popped in with a quick hello.

Lommy mentions automatic suspicion of anyone who just pops in with said quick hello. I understand that (and hey, liking me being the exception to the rule :D), and she was summarising the grand total of 15 odd posts.

Kitanna says can't get much out of Lommy because she's suspicious of everyone, and that while Legate is being helpful she thinks he is too bogged down in analysis of the narration. Nevertheless she thinks them both pretty innocent. Wonders if Samwise, Gwath and Gaunt were simply bandwaggoning.

Gwath (I think jokingly) complains about Kitanna not appreciating his originality.

Kitanna sort of (:p) apologises to Gwath but reiterates her point - and it was a fair one.

Nog says Kitanna's first post worries him as it's a 'here I am' one. Basically repeats her next post adding no information on why the mention of Lommy worries him. Says he didn't get why Legate would be the one to crack the narration when everyone else has looked at it too, despite the fact that Kitanna was clearly of the opinion that Legate pretty much started the analysis and the others followed on and that Legate had tried the hardest. This may not be correct but it was where she was coming from.

Kitanna explains herself to Nogrod.

Kitanna and Rune get into a bit of a muddle with Kitanna thinking Rune is questioning Lommy when in fact he's poking Nogrod.

Legate questions the 'fodder' comment about Lommy - good questions actually.

Samwise lists her as innocent.

Explains her Lommy stuff to Legate. The explanation is pretty odd really.

Which Legate then picks up on. Forms some options for the oddness, doesn't jump straight to assuming she's a wolf for it which speaks of restraint on his part. Careful wolf? Especially as he then completely clears her. I wonder if he thought the comment was a Seer-hint? Could be a nice double bluff if so.

Lommy says Kitanna is the only one who has really been suspected which really isn't the case when you look at how people were treating Samwise. As well as that Lommy herself had been under some suspicion. It's just an odd thing to say it when it clearly wasn't the case. Says she'd rather Kitanna stayed alive - covering her bases because she planned to kill her that Night?

Kitanna states her worries about Samwise's vote and disagrees with Legate about it having been a safe one. Also questions Gollum about why Lommy is suspicious.

Nogrod says Kitanna feels innocent but leaves himself something of an out relating to the one post of hers he didn't like.

Kitanna clears Samwise from her voting possibilities with good reason and continues to argue with Nogrod. Also says she's likely to random vote - quite possible that thanks to her having left herself with no suspicions and then voting randomly she signed her own death warrant.

Votes me out of a hat.

Ok, I'm thinking it's probable that out of whatever list the wolves had of possible kills last Night Kitanna would definitely have been on it due to her unfortunate tying up of loose ends in her penultimate post. However, I think Lommy's behaviour toward Kitanna was somewhat suspicious. The way Legate acted makes him seem more innocent to me, he was arguing solidly with good reasoning. Nog is being very 'oh it could be this but then' which I'm not sure is like him, and he seems to be misunderstanding a lot of things this game. Could be a tactic.

I have to go eat now because my stomach has been complaining all through this post! I will return to look at toDay in the light of yesterDay and to vote.

[Nogrod]

Nogrod I don't like for his flip-flopping.Let's not bring the U.S. presidental election soundbites from 2004 into a WW game... :)

I suspected Samwise in the beginning - after the first posts and pointed it out only to retract that a bit after looking at others and seeing other possibilities emerge as people actually posted.

Sadly, at the time of voting (at the actual DL) people who had gotten votes (one per person!) so far were:

Brinn (seemed innocent to me)
Lommy (I was very unsure about and so wouldn't lynch a player who could make a difference on Day1 for that)
Kath :) (even if I dislike your Day1 strategy I thought there was no reason to give you the second vote as you could be a force for good)
Mith (looked more innocent than not)
Gollum (first-timer, benefit of doubt even if I disliked the way he posted on Day1)
Shasta (Always gets lynched early + seemed to be soo uninterested in the game I thought he probably is innocent)
Sam (the one I had actually suspected earlier)

What would you have suggested me to vote for? Thrown a new name to the tally and leave it to lottery as there was no sign of Gollum or Gwath being around for hours - and they voted minutes late?

Ahh... a host of posts in... I'll continue in a bit after reading the last ones (from Lommy onwards)

[Groin Redbeard]

Groin, you said: "Shhh, Gollum, you're making us look suspicious! :D"

I'd say you've been around long enough to attempt reverse psychology. Is that what's going on here?


Psychology? Oh you are too kind, but I'm afraid it was just a bit of silly sarcasm!:D


OK, Legate is looking pretty innocent to me right now. He's being way too helpful for being a Were Warg, pointing that whole deal with Lommy. Same opinion I'm having with Kath, she's doing to well of a job with keeping helpful posts of what has happened so far.

Nobody seems to be hopping on the lynch Nogrod wagon, so I guess that means it was just me who suspected him. He's off my list of suspicious characters for right now.

Gaunt and Gollum are entirely innocent. Gaunt is trying to get a grasp of the situation and Gollum is more of a bandwagon type of player, as we saw in the beginning of Day 2 with Nogrod.

I don't know about Mith or Lommy yet. I'll have to do some quick looking back!

[Gollum the Great]

Crud, gotta go! No explanation for my vote!

++Nogrod

[Groin Redbeard]

I can't find anything suspicious with Mith but Lommy on the other hand doesn't seem to be too helpful. As we see in posts 123 & 153 she is almost always defending herself or making short comments on the ideas of others but doesn't really go out on a limb by suspecting anyone. For the most part she seems content with criticizing others, but it doesn't even feel like she's doing it to really shape opinions. This either typical Thinlomien playing or a Were Warg playing it safe.

EDIT: X'ed with Gollum

[Diamond18]

I've had a little time to read but no time to write up any decent sort of post. So just a quick vote before I have to leave:

++Brinn

[Mithalwen]

Groin it its the "helpfulness" I find suspicious.... so much posting ... gettin hard to see wood forom trees ....

[Thinlómien]

Kath doing a Kitalysis too? Excellent. Having two different analyses or summaries is always better than just one.

Oh, and might I say having only just noticed - Lommy ... Kathie? Please no. Kat, Kath, Kate, Katy, Katherine, oy you, any of them, but please don't make me sound like some middle aged person trying to sound young!:D Sorry, I obviously had no idea it has that kind of sound to you...

Kitanna about others
#28 Legate is sort of innocent & helpful, I am sort of innocent, Samwise, Gwath and Gollum are in the middle and are restating stuff Legate said.
#33 Says to Gwath that restating stuff is muddying the waters. Asks Rune if he can clarify why does he think I might be trying to trick other villagers.
#35 Clarifies her wording for Nog who didn't understand her.
#41 Thanks Rune for clarifying, says my list may mean absolutely nothing but might come in handy later, notes that Kath, Groin and Di haven't appeared yet.
#57 Questions Sam's behaviour, argues with Legate, asks Gollum to give grounds for why he thinks I'm acting queerly.
#68 Says she finds Sam a little suspicious, replies to Nogrod.
#71 Votes Kath randomly.

Others about Kitanna
Me in #21 - don't like her way of just popping in to say hi. I say she could be a wolf trying to maintain a presence, (but I don't really think that way).
Gwath in #30 - is offended byt Kit saying he's merely restating stuff.
Nogrod #34 - is puzzled about her, says her sayings are interesting. Wonders if she's looking for easy lynches (Sam, Gwath, Golly) and says that if he'd have to vote right then he'd vote Sam or Kit.
Rune #36 - answers her question.
Legate #38 - replied to her saying he's helpful.
Sam #40 - says she's probably innocent.
Legate #42 - is not sure about her.
Legate #46 - gets what she meant about my list.
Nogrod #67 - says she feels innnocentish but has reservations.
Legate #72 - says he won't vote her.
Kath #78 - says she seems bit time limited. What???

And that's it.

I couldn't note anything special she said/did that would look like a reason to her death, unless you discount the fact that she's very smart. She wasn't the only smart person in this village, though, so that's a bad reason...

Okay, what about those contacts then? Difficult to say. At least I don't think she talks seerishly about anyone's guilt or innocence. There's no one that should be afraid of her future attacks and thus want to remove her either as she doesn't really suspect anyone strongly. I can't think of anyone who would have any other special reason to kill her either. So I think the reason lies elsewhere. Maybe she was just killed in order to confuse us or leave no tracks.

edit: xed with everybody since my last post

[Groin Redbeard]

I have to go right now, I've given my reasons and Lommy is at the top of my suspect list right now (Nogrod is still next, but hasn't shown his true colors yet:)).

++Lommy

EDIT: X'ed with Lommy and Mith

[Nogrod]

Nog says Kitanna's first post worries him as it's a 'here I am' one. Basically repeats her next post adding no information on why the mention of Lommy worries him.

Legate questions the 'fodder' comment about Lommy - good questions actually.
Are we reading the same thread Kath? In the thread I have before my eyes I ask Kit about that "fodder" -thingy about Lommy and Kit answers my question about it. Only after that Legate makes his comment about it, starting it with "When I saw this, I wanted to ask you about it, and even though Nogrod did too and you answered"...

Also the way you let us understand that Kit suddenly realised Sam was a gifted and shut her mouth (but Nogrod went on lynching him because of that) has just plain malice in it. Who of you really thought Sam was a gifted, hand on your heart, yesterDay?

Kitanna clears Samwise from her voting possibilities with good reason and continues to argue with Nogrod.That was no arguing, she explained her post as I had asked for an explanation. Look at it.

Nog is being very 'oh it could be this but then' which I'm not sure is like him, and he seems to be misunderstanding a lot of things this game. Could be a tactic.
Kath misunderstanding people - could be a tactic
Kath misquoting the thread - could be a tactic
Kath misinterpreting people - could be a tactic
Kath choosing which things to quote - could be a tactic.

Wonderful arguments, aren't they? :D

Although I'd like to hear where I have misunderstood something? Even more so if you think that has been tactical...

Oh my, yet again a host of posts done while I've been fact-checking...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Heya, folks. Not sure if I'm gonna be able to post before the DL (I am posting from my RPG-friends'), but I will try to at least read the thread and maybe vote - according to my thoughts before. Haven't read the thread yet since my last post, just letting you know, so that you know (I may also not vote at all, in the worst case).

[Kath]

Woah Nogrod, no. I wasn't saying that you thought Samwise was Gifted and therefore kept going after him, simply that Kitanna may have figured it out and backed off. I never thought that you'd worked it out.

I will go back and look at the 'fodder' thing. I may well have got names muddled actually as I thought it seemed odd that Legate would mention the same comment twice. If you're right on that then I apologise and my opinions switch. You look more innocent, Legate more suspicious.

[Thinlómien]

Lommy says Kitanna is the only one who has really been suspected which really isn't the case when you look at how people were treating Samwise. As well as that Lommy herself had been under some suspicion. It's just an odd thing to say it when it clearly wasn't the case. Says she'd rather Kitanna stayed alive - covering her bases because she planned to kill her that Night?(Oh, of course. Looks like I skipped that post in my summary. I'm not used to reading ww thread so that I don't skip my own posts.) What I said about Kit was just how I saw the situation. Too bad if it was faulty. :p (I'm not even sure if it was, but I don't think it's a thing that merits checking.) But really, why would I intentionally mis-state something if I was a wolf? The odds of getting caught are pretty high and the profits are small.

I don't really know what to think of Groin's sudden change of opinion. Seems rather fishy, if you ask me. I mean, he stops suspecting Nogrod because other people don't? Huh? And then he starts suspecting me with rather questionable grounds. I appreciate he reasons his sayings but I don't agree with what he says about me. I know I don't (didn't ;)) really suspect anyone, but that just sometimes happens. And I think it's a bad reason to suspect someone who's critical. Being uncritical is far more questionable, if you ask me. Groin seems also a bit too easily charmed by helpfulness: it doesn't even look like it's his honest reaction to "helpful posting" but like using the argument as a means of exonerating a few people easily. (Could be even exonerating fellow wolves, who knows.) I didn't suspect Groin at all before this, I think people were misundertasning his campaign against Nogrod, but with a few post Groin managed to make it to my top suspect. Great. :D


edit: xed with Legate and Kath

[Mithalwen]

++ Legate of Amon Lanc

Not too helpful to be a traitor.. and there was that paradigm thing and the vote for Sam. I don't believe a traitor would pass up the chance to bag a gifted (if Samwise was "spotted" on day one just not to look suspicious.

[Nogrod]

We seem to be going as mad as yesterDay...

Rune -> Mith
Brinn -> Groin
Gollum -> Nogrod
Di -> Brinn
Groin -> Lommy
Mith -> Legate

Six votes, six candidates!

Not good!


Whomever Gollum would have voted I'm somewhat ready to vote him out just because of that attitude: Crud, gotta go! No explanation for my vote!Had he been the most vocal before that one it would be different but that's basically all he has offered us two Days now. :(

I mean we're sharing a game here and the game consists of people actually playing the game. And if someone wishes to test the limits of the game we should as the players of that game make them clear.

But I hope I have better ideas before the end.

Groin's sudden change of mind kind of makes me wonder... And Kath's seemingly intentional misrepresentations also raise an eyebrow.

And I have not forgotten my theory of lovers added in three Nights in a row when the first pair is Lommy and Legate but of the second one I have no clue as yet. Maybe it's only after them (three pairs) the real villain will be introduced - something like a werebear kind of creature who wins alone or with the remaining lover-pairs.

Remember, in pairs they come...


EDIT: X'd with a few and corrected the tally after Mith's vote

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hmm, I don't want to risk it and would rather vote now. I WILL be at the Downs, but it may be in about an hour or even more (hour and fifteen minutes, hour and half), and that may not be sufficient even for Eomer's benevolent DL.
Anyway, I haven't really READ the thread, merely skimmed through it, and I did not see anything too special that would catch my eye, although a few things maybe did, but I couldn't look into them deeper. Anyway - from all people, I am now thinking about voting Brinn, I would merely second what I said before: even though she seems posting more today than before, she is too unconflicting, too "nice" in the way that non-attention-bringing, you know the stuff...

And

Hey, I've made it past Day 3 and have been innocent before. Of course I usually wind up being a misguided ordo who suspects all the wrong people...so maybe you should just lynch me. :rolleyes:

I was of course not taking this seriously, but anyway, why are you saying this? This is silly, and it fits this un-conflict-y pattern of you too - it's that you so un-problematically accept the pattern that is outlined here for you (i.e. in this case, somebody says you are suspicious, and you in fact are nodding to him and unconflictingly accept his proposal, so to say).

Therefore

++Brinniel

EDIT: x-ed since my last post

And one word to Nogrod: Oh my, but sure you are not being THAT serious... (okay, that was 10 words :D (originally just two))

[Thinlómien]

Ok, I don't know if I will be here until the deadline, it's rather late and I have still some school stuff to do before I got to sleep (or then I have to wake up earlier tomorrow because of them). Well, we'll see how this goes...

Now, a little summary-ish.

Innocentish
Gaunt - speaks in a way a wolf just wouldn't.
Rune - I get a good feel from his posts. He mostly makes sense and seems innocent.

Slightly innocentish
Nogrod - seems innocently reasonable and jokes like innocent Nogrod usually does. Also has the agrressive edge a wolf-Nogrod often lacks. But he's very good at bluffing, so I'm very far from certain...

Middle
Legate - I find it hard to say anything about him. There's nothing to make me alarmed, but I know he can cheat a whole village (like someone said) and he does have any "aura of innocence" either. I think I need to keep an eye on him.
Shasta - I don't feel I have enough data to go on.
Mith - has some valid points and a generally slightly innocentishly feel, but is fishily single-minded (doesn't talk about other people than me very much).
Diamond - well, really, what can you say? I hope she will have more time in future...
Gwath - sleeps under my reindeer, really. I have a vague recollection he has made me uneasy in this game, but I don't remember why. Maybe I should go through his posts and check. He lacks the jumpiness of the wolf-Gwaths I've known, though.

Slightly suspicious
Kath - this is a gut-feeling thing. She just seems fishy, somehow, her tone seems insincere.
Brinniel - seems a little jumpy and some things she says just don't make much sense.
Gollum - I have hard time trying to decide whether he's so fishy because he's a newbie, or because he's a wolf. He doesn't seem to give much reasons for his opinions and goes with the flow.

Suspicious
Groin - see my previous post.


edit: xed with Mith, Noggie and Leggie

[Thinlómien]

Hmmm... now that was some good points against Legate and Brinn. I know they've been stated before but now they started to make more sense. I need to think about these things...

And I have not forgotten my theory of lovers added in three Nights in a row when the first pair is Lommy and Legate but of the second one I have no clue as yet.Are you just continuing the joke, or are you seriously suggesting that we're lovers?

[Nogrod]

I don't really know what to think of Groin's sudden change of opinion. Seems rather fishy, if you ask me. I mean, he stops suspecting Nogrod because other people don't? Huh?Add to this the way he ended his second "lynch Nogrod" post toDay with his theory that I was covering Lommy or Legate as my packmate from the fearsome attack of Gollum the Great :p: I my view this sounds very wolfish. I'll wait to see what y'all say.My only problem with this interpretation is that he might actually be like that... Not too self-confident and wishing for the confirmation of others - and ready to back away if seeing he's challenged.

In that case we lose one innocent if we lynch him.

Btw. if you ask me why I keep on bringing up that lover-idea I'm just wishing you to remember that is a possibility when I'm not around reminding you about it. four or six baddies in a village of 15 is just too much, even if they foght each other as well. But three pairs of lovers with an extra baddie might limit a believable scenario.

I'll have to check that narration for toDay once more to see if there is any sense in this...

[Mithalwen]

Mith - has some valid points and a generally slightly innocentishly feel, but is fishily single-minded (doesn't talk about other people than me very much).
[

Ooh wish I could change my vote .. you have played with me long enough to know that singlemindedness is fairly characteristic.... I often get hung up on one player but when I am evil I try to spread the suspicion.

[Nogrod]

Are you just continuing the joke, or are you seriously suggesting that we're lovers?Funny you should both be so interested in this question... I have already been Dr. Love in WW for Rikae and Mac so why not... :D

[Thinlómien]

My only problem with this interpretation is that he might actually be like that... Not too self-confident and wishing for the confirmation of others - and ready to back away if seeing he's challenged. He has been asking advice from others as an innocent before, so I wouldn't use it as an argument against him. But it doesn't change the fact that other stuff he has done is rather fishy.

(Sorry for the over-using of the word "fishy" by the way. :D I just can't think of a better one and I've been thinking about fish quite a lot today for various reasons. :D)


edit: xed with Mith and Nog

[Kath]

Hmm, so I did go back and look and Nog was right so my suspicions have switched there. Now I am going to have to disappear so I'll vote.

++LEGATE

For the reasons I previously had against Nog!

[Gwathagor]

Hi everyone. I'm here.

Time to read.

[Thinlómien]

Ooh wish I could change my vote .. you have played with me long enough to know that singlemindedness is fairly characteristic.... I often get hung up on one player but when I am evil I try to spread the suspicion.I know, but not this much, I think. Or okay, yes you have - when you were cobbler last time we played together. (Or then I just remember/pay attention to it all the times I've been the victim of it... *does not know whether rolleyes or wink would be more fitting*)

Funny you should both be so interested in this question... I have already been Dr. Love in WW for Rikae and Mac so why not...I think it's natural to want to know whether someone really suspects you or is just having fun at your expense. ;) Besides, I don't need any love-doctoring, and especially not on the part of my father...!!! :eek::p

edit: xed with Kath and Gwath - hey, that rhymes... kind of. Haha.

[Nogrod]

Deliverance earned through chance, whatever Wargs are in the time gathered. Now this would point towards there being a struggle between who gets the kill in the first place - so at least two different sides wishing to do that.

That "whatever wargs are" stuff makes me a bit nervous about my interpretation might be true indeed (or then Eomer is just toying with that idea I brought forwards yesterDay and playing me for a fool). I mean why say "whatever wargs are" if not hinting at different ways some of us are tied into this carnage - like with lovers one is the baddie and one is the "goodie" with the intention of her/his baddie winning...

But this rest is just Greek to me ("Hebrew to me" would be the Finnish wording of the same thing):
The carnage begins and the originator steps nearer. Unseen is he who shadows the master. Both march to our bleak axis, the confirmation of our pain, towards the slayers we experience as harrowers.the originator, the unseen who shadows the master? the master = the originator? the slayers?

Oh my... that may be the end of my nice lovers-idea... :) But if it is, we're really in trouble with that many villains to kill us...

[Nogrod]

Besides, I don't need any love-doctoring, and especially not on the part of my father...!!! :eek::pIf we lived in the Indian or Pakistani countryside it would be different... :D

Good we don't live there though...

*Sorry, I just couldn't resit the joke that so fitted my real suspicions*

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

About 15 minutes left. Get your votes in soon!

[Thinlómien]

*Sorry, I just couldn't resit the joke that so fitted my real suspicions*Thanks for clarification.

I just realised it's less than 15min until the deadline... :eek: I will probably vote Groin but I'm having slight last-minute doubts...


edit: xed with the modgod

[Thinlómien]

So, Brinn and Legate at two votes, I, Nogrod, Groin and Mith at one? It's either Groin or Brinn for me, then...

[Nogrod]

There are Brinn and Legate with 2 votes and Gollum has none, so we'd need three for him.

Of those two I'd trust Brinn more than Legate. As you said Lommy, Groin is a possibility but I'm afraid of the outcome as well...

Looking at the more assuring side of it: he tried to capitulate with the flow they had after the ranger was lynched and he saw there was a chance to get me into the hook but backtracked when he saw it was turning against him...

EDIT: X'd with Lommy

[Gwathagor]

Ok, I had initially meant to see if Groin maintained his attack against Nogrod tomorrow in order to better judge the motives behind it; however, the rapidity with which he dropped the suspicion toDay after it was called into question by a number of players looks to me like evidence of a guilty conscience, and his explanation (i.e. he was only "testing" Nogrod) is nothing if not flimsy.

++ Groin

EDIT: Crossed with Lommy and Nogrod

[Nogrod]

It's either Groin or Brinn for me, then...So you shy away from Legate in the storm even if you manage to suspect him slightly in low seas...? :)

X'd with Gwath

[Thinlómien]

So you shy away from Legate in the storm even if you manage to suspect him slightly in low seas...? Heijjjjj.......... I never said I suspect him! Just go and see. (And as we're reputedly lovers, of course I would act that way if I had suspected him... :Merisu: )

Seriously though,

++Groin

Sometimes I just don't like making choices but let's hope I'm right about this now...

[Nogrod]

You're too quiet Lommy to be honest in this! You're awaiting something...

Okay. I'm testing both my theory and Lommy at the same time

++ Legate

X'd with Lommy!!!!!

*There goes my test...*

[Gaunt]

I am voting for:

++ Groin Redbeard

[Thinlómien]

X'd with Lommy!!!!!Yes, sorry, now I feel terribly evil. :D

[Nogrod]

Well that was sealed now anyway...

Now we'll just keep our thumbs up.

And don't you forget the lovers idea... :smokin:

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Closed. Groin Redbeard will die shortly.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

The Warg Elders had remained peaceable, even by this stage of proceedings. Rancour had not yet come between them, though the panic they found themselves in was sure to lead to bitterness, directed by cruel tormentors.

Groin Redbeard had been today chosen. He peered around his shaking self, unsure of how to act: his friends were about to cut his throat. They leapt upon him, and the deed was done swiftly. Redbeard’s yowl of pain halted, and his once proud form limped to the floor. It remained there, pitiful and unchanging. The Elders had again chosen not well; another innocent Warg had been taken from the world, and it was thus diminished.

---------------------------------------------


The Living

Legate of Amon Lanc
Thinlómien
Kath
Nogrod
Gwathagor
Shastanis Althreduin
Brinniel
Mithalwen
Diamond
Gollum The Great
Rune Son of Bjarne
Gaunt

The Dead

SamwiseGamgee (Guardian)
Kitanna (Warg)
Groin Redbeard (Warg)



Night 3 is upon us. There is no talking in the village. Villains, send me a name; Seer, send me a name.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

In the blackest night, a figure entered the ancient hold of the Wargs; and with the first rays of the sun to reach Middle-earth, in stole another.

The walls of Eomer had been studied further, in the gloom of the dusk, and through the night by some Wargs who could find no sleep. Incrementally, more of Eomer’s words were brought to light. Tied by the same rope, they part not, though the master who follows his abettors walks in ignorance, seeing us only. His brother knows him, and is hidden from him, driven by a purpose involving us not heavily; yet the murder of one Warg, as was required for him to enter into and thrive in our council, is the same evil. So we find them, locked in war: it reaches even here. Every night a good Warg slain. Salvific council! Behold thon savage aperture! It splits our delusion and forces the admission of helplessness, of our pain.

Nogrod was found that morning, his guts ripped open. That splendid Warg of unsurpassed intellect among the Elders of that period, his great mind would be lost for time unknown. His fellows were devastated.


-------------------------------------------------


The Living

Legate of Amon Lanc
Thinlómien
Kath
Gwathagor
Shastanis Althreduin
Brinniel
Mithalwen
Diamond
Gollum The Great
Rune Son of Bjarne
Gaunt

The Dead

SamwiseGamgee (Guardian)
Kitanna (Warg)
Groin Redbeard (Warg)
Nogrod (Warg)



Day 3 has begun.

[Thinlómien]

Nogrod died? That was quite unexpected... he was suspected quite a lot. Was he suspected of seerdom, then? (Or is somebody trying to get rid of dangerous people, or confuse us, or what?) Interesting, no doubt... I will have a look at Nogrod's posts (aiee what a job :rolleyes: :D) sometime toDay, possibly right now, and see if they reveal something.

[Thinlómien]

No one else around? Fine... Then I will have a look at Nog's posts from yesterDay now.

[Gollum the Great]

Wow! This comes as a complete surprise! This completely alters my view on Nogrod.

[Thinlómien]

I'm not going to make a proper analysis as it would take ages and I don't feel it would be of that much use. I'll just post here the things that caught my attention:

Nogrod suspected
Gollum and Gwath, just a little, for dropping in and voting at the last minute on the previous Day. Ended up suspecting Gollum more than Gwath.
Suspected Kath.
(Half-jokingly) suspected Lommy and Legate of loverism.

Nogrod thought innocent
Mith, Brinn and Gaunt.

I don't think Nogrod's suspicions look seerish. He's too uncertain about them and/or has too many reservations. His list of innocents then... maybe? Maybe something in the way he talked about Brinn and Mith and Gaunt made the wolves think he had dreamt of two of them? I think he at least supported Mith and Brinn's innocence without much reservations... Hm....

Others' attitudes to Nogrod
Gwathagor considered him innocentish.
Rune was unsure about him but inclined to consider him innocent.
Legate didn't find him particularly suspicious.
Gollum suspected him.
Brinn wasn't enthusiastic to lynch him.
Gaunt argued with him and suspected him a little.
Kath found him suspicious but retracted much of that later when Nogrod corrected her.
Lommy found him innocentish.
The rest did not talk about him yesterDay.

I don't know what to make of this. It really doesn't look like anyone would have had especially many or few reasons to kill him. Except that Brinn and Rune and if there were other people who did so too would be rather two-faced if they were wolves: say they don't want to lynch Nog and then go and kill him. I'm not saying it's impossible or even improbable, but it's rather nasty. ;)

Nogrod tried to interpret the rules a few times. Maybe the wolves know more than we do and killed him because he was getting too close to the truth about the rules? (Like, maybe I and Legate really are lovers and were scared he would convince others that his so very serious theory is correct? :rolleyes: ;)) He didn't have any very clear theories though, except the possibility of lovers, which I myself consider unlikely. I think we would know if this was a lover game and I think no mod would start the game with just two baddies who both die and lose the game if one of them dies. Looks a little too unfair.

Okay, in conclusion: I think Nogrod was killed to a) remove a smart guy, b) to confuse us or c) because he was suspected of seerism and at least two of Mith, Brinn and Gaunt are innocent.


edit: xed with Golly

[Diamond18]

Nogrod, dead, eh? Well that can only mean one thing; the culprit(s) are quiet people! Who fear Nogrod's searching eye and also find it annoying to have to read all his posts in the short time they have online before they have to make a post/vote. So, you know, I don't know who around here could possibly fit that bill... ;)

In all seriousness though, I do kind of find Nogrod to be an odd choice for a kill. He garners a lot of attention and would be someone you could try to rustle up a lynch mob for. The only reason I can think of to kill him at night is suspicion of seerdom.


Okay, in conclusion: I think Nogrod was killed to a) remove a smart guy, b) to confuse us or c) because he was suspected of seerism and at least two of Mith, Brinn and Gaunt are innocent.

I lean more towards option C (obviously, as stated) so I might hold off on voting for those people, at least for this Day.

[Diamond18]

Oh, yeah, almost forgot. Speaking of my vote, it's going to have to come in the next 6 or so hours because I won't be online again before Day end. I'm going to paint and think things over.

[Brinniel]

Hmm...Nogrod's death is interesting indeed. A surprise simply because I kinda expected someone with little trails to be killed...

Anyways, where is everyone? Five hours into Day 3 and only a few posts. It's too quiet.

I took a nap and feel a bit refreshed, so I'll have some time to take a better look at people before I turn in for bed. I'll also have time to post later on, though I will still have to vote about four hours early. Meh, the deadline's just at an inconvenient time for me...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Let me join the choir. . . Nogrod does seem like an odd choise as he almost always end up getting lynched if just let alone, of course he could (like Lommy says) have gotten close to some truth. However I see little reason to belive that is the case, do you not think that it is simply because they want to confuse us? That or they might share Nogrod views about a quiet village being easy to hide in, of course there is also the possibility that it is the result of some twisted version of the Oedipus Complex and that would leave Lommy as the killer.

In short: I belive they are trying to confuse us.

[Diamond18]

of course there is also the possibility that it is the result of some twisted version of the Oedipus Complex and that would leave Lommy as the killer.

Or better yet, Lommy and Legate conspired to kill him in a twisted lover's pact to get rid of the [furry] lady's father should he raise any objections....

Hey it could happen. Lynch them! Lynch them both!

(Though that may just be the paint fumes talking.)

[Brinniel]

YesterDay's voting:

Rune: ++Mith (Mith 1)
Brinn: ++Groin (Mith 1, Groin 1)
Gollum: ++Nogrod (Mith 1, Groin 1, Nogrod 1)
Diamond: ++Brinn (Mith 1, Groin 1, Nogrod 1, Brinn 1)
Groin: ++Lommy (Mith 1, Groin 1, Nogrod 1, Brinn 1, Lommy 1)
Mith: ++Legate (Mith 1, Groin 1, Nogrod 1, Brinn 1, Lommy 1, Legate 1)
Legate: ++Brinn (Mith 1, Groin 1, Nogrod 1, Brinn 2, Lommy 1, Legate 1)
Kath: ++Legate (Mith 1, Groin 1, Nogrod 1, Brinn 2, Lommy 1, Legate 2)
Gwath: ++Groin (Mith 1, Groin 2, Nogrod 1, Brinn 2, Lommy 1, Legate 2)
Lommy: ++Groin (Mith 1, Groin 3, Nogrod 1, Brinn 2, Lommy 1, Legate 2)
Nogrod: ++Legate (Mith 1, Groin 3, Nogrod 1, Brinn 2, Lommy 1, Legate 3)
Gaunt: ++Groin (Mith 1, Groin 4, Nogrod 1, Brinn 2, Lommy 1, Legate 3)

Did not vote: Shasta

Thoughts:

Not sure what to think about Rune's vote, I don't see why Mith's suspicious. I didn't see Gollum or Di give reasons behind their votes...I'd like to hear some explanation. If you could label players as suspicious by vote alone, that'd have to be Lommy (who brought Groin to the lead) and Gaunt (who came from nowhere and confirmed Groin's death).

A comment about Legate's vote:
Hey, I've made it past Day 3 and have been innocent before. Of course I usually wind up being a misguided ordo who suspects all the wrong people...so maybe you should just lynch me. :rolleyes:
I was of course not taking this seriously, but anyway, why are you saying this? This is silly, and it fits this un-conflict-y pattern of you too - it's that you so un-problematically accept the pattern that is outlined here for you (i.e. in this case, somebody says you are suspicious, and you in fact are nodding to him and unconflictingly accept his proposal, so to say).
I think you took this comment the wrong way...I know your comment wasn't serious and my response wasn't supposed to be serious either, hence the smiley face. But I don't exactly understand why you voted me...because I said go ahead and lynch me? I don't get why you would think being unconflicting is suspicious...I feel like that's something I've alway done regardless of role. This may be WW, but I try not to butt heads too much. I just think your vote for me seems faulty.

As of now...

Those who feel innocentish:
Mith
Kath
Gwath

Those who I want to hear more from:
Diamond
Gollum
Shasta (though I could also put him in the innocentish category simply because he seems to participate more than he has whenever he's not an ordo)

Those I want to take a better look at:
Lommy
Legate
Gaunt
Rune

[Diamond18]

Well I have no more time tonight, so I'm going to vote.

++Legate

[Gwathagor]

I'm going to be busy for most of toDay, so I'll probably vote when I wake up in 8 hours or so.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right, I am around at last, and I will probably have chance to be around for the rest of the Day. I have read through yesterDay, but maybe I should re-read again in the light of Nogrod's death. To be honest, at one moment I thought he could be a Wolf - but not to a very strong point. Anyway...

I am now starting to wonder about Gollum, because if he is one of the baddies, I can well imagine him killing Nogrod. Depending who would be the other person, of course, but still...
Wow! This comes as a complete surprise! This completely alters my view on Nogrod.
I could possibly imagine a Gollum-Wolf posting this, too, like "giving his hands away from the thing". Anyway, I think I could put Gollum on my suspicion list, and I'm going to observe him - I'll take a look at his older posts, too; there is not much of them (or they are not long), to get some better idea about him.

I don't think Nogrod's suspicions look seerish. He's too uncertain about them and/or has too many reservations.
Now when it comes to the reasons for his kill, yes, I think so. Also, when mentioning Rune, I don't think he would be the one to kill Nog like that in this situation.

Nogrod tried to interpret the rules a few times. Maybe the wolves know more than we do and killed him because he was getting too close to the truth about the rules? (Like, maybe I and Legate really are lovers and were scared he would convince others that his so very serious theory is correct? :rolleyes: ;)) He didn't have any very clear theories though, except the possibility of lovers, which I myself consider unlikely. I think we would know if this was a lover game and I think no mod would start the game with just two baddies who both die and lose the game if one of them dies. Looks a little too unfair.
Well honestly, I hope nobody takes that seriously here - although he brought this theory up so many times... hmm... possibly this may have been understood as a Seerish hint? However in that case, the likely reason of his kill would have been to frame you and me :) Which - now smileys aside - is not as funny idea.

Nogrod, dead, eh? Well that can only mean one thing; the culprit(s) are quiet people! Who fear Nogrod's searching eye and also find it annoying to have to read all his posts in the short time they have online before they have to make a post/vote. So, you know, I don't know who around here could possibly fit that bill...

In all seriousness though, I do kind of find Nogrod to be an odd choice for a kill. He garners a lot of attention and would be someone you could try to rustle up a lynch mob for. The only reason I can think of to kill him at night is suspicion of seerdom.
For the reasons... I am not really sure, but the most logical view of mine would be that the killers are indeed some quiet-ish people who decided to get rid of him. If it were Gollum, as I said above, I could imagine that - depending just whether he'd convince the other person to pick Nogrod as well. I am not sure about the idea of seerishness, but it is possible (cf. above), as well as the idea of creating confusion. It may as well be that it is several or all of these reasons for a kill at once.

A comment about Legate's vote:

I think you took this comment the wrong way...I know your comment wasn't serious and my response wasn't supposed to be serious either, hence the smiley face. But I don't exactly understand why you voted me...because I said go ahead and lynch me? I don't get why you would think being unconflicting is suspicious...I feel like that's something I've alway done regardless of role. This may be WW, but I try not to butt heads too much. I just think your vote for me seems faulty.
Nope, I voted you because of the other reasons I stated earlier in my posts, and many times, about your "un-conflicty behaviour" and such. I did not give much weight to that "lynch me" comment, I merely quoted it, and it did not have that much to do with the choice to vote you itself.

Let me join the choir. . . Nogrod does seem like an odd choise as he almost always end up getting lynched if just let alone, of course he could (like Lommy says) have gotten close to some truth. However I see little reason to belive that is the case, do you not think that it is simply because they want to confuse us? That or they might share Nogrod views about a quiet village being easy to hide in, of course there is also the possibility that it is the result of some twisted version of the Oedipus Complex and that would leave Lommy as the killer.

In short: I belive they are trying to confuse us.
Well, yes, all in all, I would probably be most inclined to agree with the idea of confusing being the aim of the baddies after all. That's not to say, as have written above, that it can't be connected with several other reasons for picking Nog.

Or better yet, Lommy and Legate conspired to kill him in a twisted lover's pact to get rid of the [furry] lady's father should he raise any objections....
*Rolleyes...*

But, then, anyway - would you please care to explain your vote, Diamond? Except for "lynch them", I saw no particular reason for the vote, and sure what you said was not meant as serious reason for vote? Or was it?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

YesterDay's voting:


Not sure what to think about Rune's vote, I don't see why Mith's suspicious.

That is fine, it is not like I suspected her more than you anyways so maybe I should have voted differently. Maybe it is just the style that Mith plays that confuses me, she pops up a few times and with some small posts which are mostly uncontrovertial or at least in my view not really creating much of disciution. Anyways I will not be voting for her again today, that would not be fair unless somehthing major happens.

A comment about Legate's vote:

I think you took this comment the wrong way...I know your comment wasn't serious and my response wasn't supposed to be serious either, hence the smiley face. But I don't exactly understand why you voted me...because I said go ahead and lynch me? I don't get why you would think being unconflicting is suspicious...I feel like that's something I've alway done regardless of role. This may be WW, but I try not to butt heads too much. I just think your vote for me seems faulty.

If you do not see why unconflicting is suspicious then I can understand why you do not understand me, I think it is relative well known tactic for the evil doers to be seen and yet stay clear of too many enemies. An ordo on the other hand is a bit more free and not carring, of course non of us wants to get lynched, but I think you are even more afraid of it if you are evil.

Anyways I think Legate's vote was reasonable.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Gollum Gollum...

Here be something from his postsssiess. Despite the fact of being a newbie, I cannot simply let go that he has quite bad habit of not saying almost anything at all. His last post yesterDay:

Crud, gotta go! No explanation for my vote!

++Nogrod

Okay, no time, no explanation, fine. But toDay his first post:

Wow! This comes as a complete surprise! This completely alters my view on Nogrod.

Great, it makes perfect sense that Gollum does not suspect Nogrod anymore (of course ;) ) but, wouldn't he care to say what was his reason to vote Nogrod, since he didn't give it yesterDay? At least now then.

Besides that, he mentions technically just three people he suspected: me, Lommy, Nogrod. And Groin, although that is just a mention. Well, in general, his posts are not saying much.

Gollum, I know this is your first game, so okay if you are getting yourself into it, but if you perhaps could elaborate at least a little what do you think about others, too, respectively, what do you think even about those you named, because even that is very little beyond "I suspect him".

[Mithalwen]

That is fine, it is not like I suspected her more than you anyways so maybe I should have voted differently. Maybe it is just the style that Mith plays that confuses me, she pops up a few times and with some small posts which are mostly uncontrovertial or at least in my view not really creating much of disciution. Anyways I will not be voting for her again today, that would not be fair unless somehthing major happens.

.


I don't see what is so confusing Rune. I have job with near standard office hours. At the time you voted for me I had been either asleep or at work since the start of play other than for a short time at lunch. Where was the scope for making more than a check in post. Really you are most unreasonable.

I believe either Lommie or Legate and probably both are up to no good. If Lommie were a traitor it makes sense that she would want Nogrod out of the way.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I don't see what is so confusing Rune. I have job with near standard office hours. At the time you voted for me I had been either asleep or at work since the start of play other than for a short time at lunch. Where was the scope for making more than a check in post. Really you are most unreasonable.
.
So what if you have work thos hours? I had to vote at that time and then I cannot start taking into account when everybody is working, that would leave me with only students to vote for. . . how is that fair?
My vote was based on what I had seen until then and is that not what we are supposed to do?

[Mithalwen]

You generalised from one post and say it is not personal? I am not saying don't vote for me but don't make out that my behaviour is odd whane it is the only way I could behave. It really seem vindictive. Why not vote for me again now and have done with it?

[Thinlómien]

If you could label players as suspicious by vote alone, that'd have to be Lommy (who brought Groin to the lead) and Gaunt (who came from nowhere and confirmed Groin's death).Actually, in general, I think making the decisive votes is more innocentish than wolvish in most cases. Wolves don't want the responsibility and spotlight that come with the decisive vote. The case is totally different, though, if a fellow of theirs is under a threat.

In the light of my current knowledge, I don't think there are any particularily suspcious votes yesterDay. Ironically, the one that looks the most suspicious to me is Groin's. :rolleyes:

However in that case, the likely reason of his kill would have been to frame you and me Which - now smileys aside - is not as funny idea.Yes, but I don't consider it likely. He suspicions were half-joking, I can't see anyone calculating on people to believe we two would be that jumpy. Besides whom Nogrod really suspected was Kath. But I don't think the kill points at her, nor do I think it was done in order to frame her: Nogrod suspected her so clearly because of what she said. (Even though, now I'm wondering... could they have read it so that he had dreamt of Kath and was just waiting for an opportunity to accuse her? I think I'll have a look at that later...)

I'm pretty lost with the wolves' identities right now. Brinn keeps looking a little fishy, but not much more than that.


edit: xed with Mithx2 and Rune

[Mithalwen]

In case I can't make it back

++ Legate of Amon Lanc.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

There is 2 things in this:

1. Of course one could have acted differently, maybe not made more posts, but the content of them could have been different. There is not only 1 way to do things, not that you should change it because of me. . . just accept that it left me a feeling of you trying to keep out of the light.

2. I my self tell about my RL commitments because I think it is only fair to the other players in the game, but I cannot expect them to give me special treatment even if I have a good reason. As players we have too look at what happens in the game and let that be the main factor for our decitions.

EDIT: Cross Posted With Mith

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Talking about RL commitment. . .

I have to leave for my baby-brothers birthday party now, but I will be back before deadline and I really hope that more will have shown up at that time and hopefully it is also the time where people will do their voting.

I am pretty open about who to vote for today as long as a good case is presented, there have already been voiced suspicions against Brinn and Gollum and I can follow both. I did not suspect Gollum earlier, but that is probably because I simply did not notice him at all.

I could imagine Legate and Lommy being candidates and even though I will not write them off my list completely (of lynch candidates) I am not too thrilled about voting for either today.

People I am quite confident I will not vote for today:

Mith - I have voted for her two times now and even though I stand by my decision I think it would be unwise to vote for her at this point. . . For one she is gennerally regarded as innocent so it would be a waste of a vote, secondly it would not leave much of a pattern for people to analyse should I get killed. oh and also: It is very easy to become to focused on one individual and thus become blind to what others do, so yeah I do not think it would be wise to vote for her again today.

Kath - I really like Kath as a player. . .of course there are limmits to how long I can use this as an excuse for not suspecting her.
Maybe I should add Gaunt to that list.

[Brinniel]

Well honestly, I hope nobody takes that seriously here - although he brought this theory up so many times... hmm... possibly this may have been understood as a Seerish hint? However in that case, the likely reason of his kill would have been to frame you and me Which - now smileys aside - is not as funny idea.
The interaction between Lommy and Nogrod at the end of the Day was rather amusing, though I didn't think much of his theory while reading it. But in light his death, I took a look at the interaction between Lommy and Legate myself and I can't help but wonder if there's some truth to this theory...or something similar. I suppose it's possible the wolves chose Nogrod to frame the two, but I somehow doubt it...or at least framing the two L's wouldn't be the only reason. A double bluff is possible too...I know Lommy and Legate are capable of it.

If you do not see why unconflicting is suspicious then I can understand why you do not understand me, I think it is relative well known tactic for the evil doers to be seen and yet stay clear of too many enemies. An ordo on the other hand is a bit more free and not carring, of course non of us wants to get lynched, but I think you are even more afraid of it if you are evil.

Being unconflicting can be a wolf tactic, I agree, but it doesn't necessarily mean that someone who is unconflicting is a wolf. Like I said, I think it's a style I tend to use regardless of my role...at least at the beginning of the game. I'm a careful poster...that's part of my personality. But it doesn't mean I'm a wolf. So I don't think being unconflicting is a good enough reason alone.

[Gwathagor]

I am sorry that I don't have more time to consider, but I have to catch a train into Chicago, and I won't be back until this evening (RL).

Well: toDay, I am going to go with Rune, because, as much as I think that Legate's suspicion of Brinniel is unfounded, I find Rune's echoing of Legate more suspicious.

++Rune

[Brinniel]

Rune: Wants me lynched, which is quite typical of him. In fact, if he didn't suspect me, I think I'd be disappointed. I'm surprised he hasn't voted me yet, though surely I can expect it toDay. :p In turn, I'm always tempted to vote him. I think it's his playing style that sets me off...but then whenever I suspect him he turns out innocent. I don't like to repeat mistakes, so I won't be too quick to suspect...though I do want to watch him carefully.

Gaunt: YesterDay he did talk about Nogrod and Groin, though while he seemed to suspect Noggie more, he voted Groin. I'm not sure what to think of that. He hasn't shown up yet toDay, and I would like to hear more from him.

Lommy: While her intentions don't feel like good ones, they don't seem furry. I'm still convinced there's something cobblerish about her...so maybe she is a cobbler character, or perhaps Nogrod's theory is accurate after all...

Legate: I still don't like his reasons behind suspecting me...and now I don't like his reasons for suspecting Gollum. Yes, Gollum hasn't been saying much and as much as I would like him to, I think it's more newbie behaviour than anything. Gollum seems like the type of newbie who is perhaps a bit too timid to dive in and become involved on the same scale that the rest of us are. While his comment, "Wow! This comes as a complete surprise! This completely alters my view on Nogrod" may look wolfish to us, I think he wrote down his first thought unaware about what kind of phrases might sound fishy. Typical newbie mistake. Legate, you seem to be building up a case against Gollum and it just feels fabricated to me.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Being unconflicting can be a wolf tactic, I agree, but it doesn't necessarily mean that someone who is unconflicting is a wolf. Like I said, I think it's a style I tend to use regardless of my role...at least at the beginning of the game. I'm a careful poster...that's part of my personality. But it doesn't mean I'm a wolf. So I don't think being unconflicting is a good enough reason alone.

Of course being unconflicting by itself does not mean someone is guilty. But then, I would say that being unconflicting all the time implies something unnatural going on - like a programmed behavior, which is something a Wolf may use to his advantage. Anyway, I also don't think your behavior in general is unconflicting, not the same way as it was this game.

Yes, Gollum hasn't been saying much and as much as I would like him to, I think it's more newbie behaviour than anything. Gollum seems like the type of newbie who is perhaps a bit too timid to dive in and become involved on the same scale that the rest of us are. While his comment, "Wow! This comes as a complete surprise! This completely alters my view on Nogrod" may look wolfish to us, I think he wrote down his first thought unaware about what kind of phrases might sound fishy. Typical newbie mistake. Legate, you seem to be building up a case against Gollum and it just feels fabricated to me.

Okay, now you are once again either misunderstanding or misinterpretating what I meant. See, my main point was not that because he said it, he is a wolf, and you won't find it there in my posts. At first when I saw this quote, I was answering myself the question whether he could post that if he were a Wolf. That's what I said in my first post today here. Then, when I was going through his posts, I was again, not basing anything on what he said there per se, but I was pointing out that he did not say his reasons for voting Nog. Why? Yesterday, he said "no time to explain" and just voted. Today he shows up, and all he says is "wow, this is a surprise". That was the point.

Okay, now. I shall be around, and hopefully also somebody else will show up; although I presume that as usual, people will start crowding around before the DL. Where are these Kaths and Gaunts and such? I would like to see them post toDay, too. For now, I am left to ponder my inclinations to vote - Brinn now looks fisher to me still.

[Brinniel]

Then, when I was going through his posts, I was again, not basing anything on what he said there per se, but I was pointing out that he did not say his reasons for voting Nog. Why? Yesterday, he said "no time to explain" and just voted. Today he shows up, and all he says is "wow, this is a surprise". That was the point.
While it's frustrating when someone doesn't explain their reason for voting someone, but I don't think it has much meaning behind it. In previous games, players have been lynched because they didn't explain their vote and they have all turned out innocent. If anything, I would think a person who doesn't explain their vote is more likely innocent because why would a wolf want to draw attention to themself simply by not giving an explanation?

Btw, where is everyone? Posting has gone particularly slow toDay. Anyways, I'm gonna have to vote fairly soon...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Oh My!

I am gone for hours and hours and when I return only 5 posts have been made, that is pathetic! Is Nogrod really that essential to keep the wheels turning?

And to think I felt bad about leaving you for that long, now I am glad I did otherwise it would have been a very frustrating day for me.

I see that Gwath voted for me. . .well, I guess he is kind of right, but I must point out that I also suspected Brinn yesterday. I guess my main problem is that I have seen nothing that makes me heavily suspect anybody, this is why I am stuck with suspects as Brinn where the main reason I suspect her is because of her playing style and not an actual action.

So yeah I do not have any major cases and that I might not have been the first to voice the conserns, but I think they have as much merit as most what most of you guys have come up with.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

While it's frustrating when someone doesn't explain their reason for voting someone, but I don't think it has much meaning behind it. In previous games, players have been lynched because they didn't explain their vote and they have all turned out innocent. If anything, I would think a person who doesn't explain their vote is more likely innocent because why would a wolf want to draw attention to themself simply by not giving an explanation?

A wolf with a bad reason for his vote, or whatever, simply a wolf who does not want to explain his vote - because wolves basically never have honest reasons for their votes - may want to create silence around his vote and hope for it to be forgotten, so that he does not put himself in unnecessary risk. As I said, it's not an argument per se, and I would prefer anyway Gollum himself, and not you, to say something to it.

And as for what you say about players who have been lynched for not stating their vote and turned out innocent, yes, why not. But the same you can say there were also players who have not been lynched despite that and turned out to be wolves. So, this is sure no argument to use.

Anyway, yes, I would prefer others to appear around here, too. DL is nearing slowly, and it is too quiet here.

EDIT: x-ed with Rune. Yes sir, I agree with your second line (but please use trademark when using MY quote, okay? ;) )

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

And as for what you say about players who have been lynched for not stating their vote and turned out innocent, yes, why not. But the same you can say there were also players who have not been lynched despite that and turned out to be wolves. So, this is sure no argument to use.

Is it not like this with most arguments in ww, that they are two edged.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Is it not like this with most arguments in ww, that they are two edged.

Yes, you are right. But "players have been lynched for not explaining their vote and turned out innocent" is in my point of view the same as saying "players have been lynched for voting Joe and turned out innocent", it's something too general. Anyway, let me say, and I hope to make it clear by this once and for all, this is all getting away still from the point of why I said that. The point was not "he did not state why he voted, lynch him!" The point was: "Let him state reasons for his vote." Because when somebody says his reasons for voting, the others may conclude something from it: Okay, this reasoning looks fishy, etc. I do not want anything else than to wait for Gollum to say that. Yet still I considered it important to point out also that the behavior itself is weird: say "I don't have time to tell my reasons for voting now", one expects in the next post "I didn't have time to say the reasons back then, but now I will tell you, here they are", and that this can be hoping for it to be forgotten, especially now that the person voted for is dead.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

It annoyed me that I had no solid cases against anyone so I started reading some of the older posts, you know, to see if I could find anything.

I was actually focusing on Legate's posts, but then I had a look at a post of Lommy's and it made me wonder.

I don't really understand this "oh Lommy plays so differently" stuff. Quite a many people seem to think so, and as I do not think there are any grounds to think so, it strikes me as a little furry. This looks like the classic case of an innocent stating a weird opinion and the wolves following it because they don't realise it's a weird opinion because they are evil and thus their brain is not for real in the wolf-seeking mode or then they just one to get someone lynched, or something. That is to say that I wouldn't be surprised at all to find a wolf among those who talk about my changed playing style. In my opinion, I'm not playing any differently than before (unless you're all still talking about that accusation-throwing post, which was an intentional try at that kind of discussion-stirring) and just for your information, I'm not trying a new style to confuse you or to amuse myself. If there really is a difference in my playing style, it's totally unintentional. You may draw your conclusions from that.

Yes, I think the fact that he voted someone who had already been voted for looks rather innocent in this company... it was a more constructive thing to do than throwing in a new name would have been.


It was very defensive, but of course that does not have to mean anything as we all get defensive if we feel threatened enough. It is just the fact that she so insisting that she behaves as she always does that makes me think: It may be that she is a wolf trying very hard to play as she always does and therefor is very defensive about it and then she uses a classic counter attack stating that it is very furry to say anything sugesting she has been acting odd.

Of course she could simply be an ordo convinced that she is playing as she always does. . . anyways it just made me think.

EDIT: Cross Posted With Legate

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Hello. . . Is there anybody out there?

Anyways I will have to soon as work is calling, I am not feelig too well so hopefully they will send me home, but I cannot count on that.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

It was very defensive, but of course that does not have to mean anything as we all get defensive if we feel threatened enough. It is just the fact that she so insisting that she behaves as she always does that makes me think: It may be that she is a wolf trying very hard to play as she always does and therefor is very defensive about it and then she uses a classic counter attack stating that it is very furry to say anything sugesting she has been acting odd.

Of course she could simply be an ordo convinced that she is playing as she always does. . . anyways it just made me think.

Hmm... well, it of course may be either way, but then I think actually this assumption does not sound that unlikely. If Lommy were a wolf, I think this slight defensive-behaviour "I have not done anything out of the ordinary" could fit her.

Maybe I could take a look at some older things too, hoping that somebody will show up meanwhile...

EDIT: x-ed with Rune

[Brinniel]

I'm here. I found out I can make it for the deadline after all (hurray), but I need to run an errand first. I don't think it'll take long so I'll be back in hopefully less than an hour.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I really cannot figure out what to make of you Legate. . .

You seem very helpful and is a person I hope will post, but at times I get the feeling you are trying to hide in the spot-light. In fact I think the case you made against Samwise fit your self very well (although I cannot remember if you made any safe vote).

One could almost say that the reason I am uneasy about you is because I have not really suspected you, it kind feels like I am being tricked into beliving in your innocens.

I will vote within 10 min. but I do not know for whom yet. . . I am quite nervous as there is a possibility that I my self will get lynched and so it would be nice to stick around until deadline.

The safe vote for me right now would be Legate, because that would make it likely that I my self will survive, but I am not sure that it is actually Legate I want to lynch today.

[Thinlómien]

Two things caught my attention now that I came here and read what's happened while I've been away. One, it's been awfully quiet today.

Two, we have been focused on just a few villagers today. I, Brinn, Rune, Legate, Gollum and Mith have been talked about. Not much about Di or Shasta or Gaunt or Gwath or Kath. Mostly it's just that those who have been around have been talked about and the ones who've been absent have slipped under the radar. This worries me. All the louder players accuse each other while the quiet ones waltz through the game happily. Now, I'm not saying anything as silly as that there are no wolves among the loudmouths or that the quiet ones are evil, but I think we're really doing a mistake by focusing only on half of the village and letting the other half hang around in the comfortability zone. It's very probable that there are baddies hiding there - I think it's very unlikely that all the evil-doers are found from the bunch that has been on the spotlight toDay.

I'm especially concerned about Gwath and Kath, because they strike me as suspicious-ish (I'd like to look through their posts to see what is it actually that makes them fishy to me), but I'm worried that if Di or Shasta is a wolf (or both of them :eek: ), they will slip through totally unnoticed. I'm not that worried about the spotlight not being on Gaunt because I think he looks rather innocent at the moment.

And just to add, I think Brinn has been posting more innocently toDay than before. She sounds more genuine. But I'm still unsure and suspect her a little.

Unless I've cross-posted with something very interesting, I'm now going to have a quick (it's quite near the deadline... eek) look at Gwath and Kath.


edit: xed with Legate, Brinn and Rune

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

We could vote Gwath. . .

I would like Kath to stay onboard still. . .

Okay here it goes will vote for Lommy, but I am really torn between her Legate, Brin and Gwath.

++Thinlómien (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/member.php?u=4375)

[Thinlómien]

Gwath
- is hiding in the shadows, more silent than usual (I know his RL hurries/timetables, but still...)
- Day1 vote rather odd - jumps on a random vote on a person who hasn't seemingly given too much reason to suspect herself
- gives adistant and a little fishy feel
+ his arguments against me sound innocent
+ is not jumpy at all unlike the Gwath-wolves I've known
+ his Groin-vote seems innocentish, as does his vote for Rune

Kath
- Day1 vote very safe and easy
- apologises her vote ;) (ok sorry, had to say that because she wrongly used it against me once :D)
- too helpful (I know she always is, but this time she's almost overdoing it, analysing pretty much everything - as if she couldn't otherwise think of anything to say, also not-that-useful stuff, like what got Samwise lynched)
- tone slightly insincere
- like Nogrod says, her Kitanna-analysis is a little weird (an innocent would probably have looked at things a bit more carefully because she needs to find out stuff, not just fake that she's doing so)
+ Samwise-analysis sounds genuine and innocentishly smart
+ not jumpy
+ seems like her normal self (although, I'm not sure if that speaks for her innocence at all... she's quite good at bluffing)

Ok, I didn't become much wiser. I still suspect them both a little, but Kath more than Gwath. I'd very much like to hear more of both of them. I'm hopeful that Kath will appear before the DL...

[Thinlómien]

It's less than 40 minutes until the deadline and no one posted anything in the last half an hour... weird... where are you all? Hiding?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Great! Seems at least some posting is gearing up - now I only hope more people appear to post, and now, and not fifteen minutes before the DL... :rolleyes:

Two, we have been focused on just a few villagers today. I, Brinn, Rune, Legate, Gollum and Mith have been talked about. Not much about Di or Shasta or Gaunt or Gwath or Kath. Mostly it's just that those who have been around have been talked about and the ones who've been absent have slipped under the radar.

That's quite connected topic, too, and I would second this now. Actually, I have just skimmed through the earlier Days once again (it's called "cursoric reading"), if there are any particular things which would now bring my attention, especially concerning those who have slipped under my radar this far (i.e. Mith, Gwath, Kath, Di, Gaunt...). From those, I got a complex-ish picture of Gaunt as innocent-looking. Besides that, it's either grey zone (Gwathagor, and also Kath, whom I besides that dislike just because of her style of posting, which I a) can never decipher whether being wolfy or innocent, b) am just annoyed with because the posts appear just once a Day, but they are so long :p ;) ) or too little to chew (Di), or too chaotic (Mithalwen).

(Actually to be honest, the main feeling that it gave me now is just horrible annoyance with the progress of this game: Nogrod was right, half of the players just stops by to post once a Day and that's it... I mean come on, what kind of a game is this supposed to be...)

EDIT: x-ed since Rune

[Brinniel]

I'm back. The errand took longer than I planned. I meant to only buy fruit but I got caught up in a peace rally. Then after awhile I realised I had to hurry and get back so that I could lynch a werewolf. :p

Anyways, I still need to read up. Just checking in...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hey yes, what, I mean come on, is there nobody posting? It's 30 to DL...

Edit: x-ed with Brinn. Well...

[Gollum the Great]

I'll have something here in a minute...

[Thinlómien]

I don't really like the current voting situation. I wouldn't like to vote either Rune or Legate, and I obviously won't be voting myself.

edit: xed with Gollum

[Thinlómien]

Just to expand on what I just said, I feel we're badly on the wrong track like we've been this far. And now time's running out too... and I don't even know if voting Kath (which is what I feel like doing the most at the moment) is any wiser. :rolleyes:

[Brinniel]

That's quite connected topic, too, and I would second this now. Actually, I have just skimmed through the earlier Days once again (it's called "cursoric reading"), if there are any particular things which would now bring my attention, especially concerning those who have slipped under my radar this far (i.e. Mith, Gwath, Kath, Di, Gaunt...). From those, I got a complex-ish picture of Gaunt as innocent-looking. Besides that, it's either grey zone (Gwathagor, and also Kath, whom I besides that dislike just because of her style of posting, which I a) can never decipher whether being wolfy or innocent, b) am just annoyed with because the posts appear just once a Day, but they are so long ) or too little to chew (Di), or too chaotic (Mithalwen).

Well, I think for most of these people it's due to RL. You know, not everyone has as much time as you do. ;)

But of the quiet ones, I'm mostly worried about Di, Shasta and Gollum who have said so little I can't get any read from them.

From Mith, Kath, Gwath, and Gaunt I've heard enough to get at least some idea. Though I do wonder where Kath and Gaunt are...they didn't say a lot, but enough yesterDay...but toDay they have yet to show up at all...

[Kath]

Ah I'm so sorry! I've been having such a busy and fantastic time all day that I completely forgot about this!

Quick thoughts, based on it being Nogrod that died, are that either Lommy and or Legate are playing a blinder of a game and bluffing as hard as they can or someone is trying to set one of them up. Really don't know, except that due to me being suspicious of Legate yesterDay the former option strikes me as more likely.

Right I'm going to go and read through toDay and just try to get a few ideas. I'll be back with some thoughts and a vote soon.

[Brinniel]

Btw, I'm not gonna vote for a quieter player toDay. It's a good idea to keep an eye on them, but I want to actually take some time to examine them toMorrow rather than randomly vote for one of them toDay based on nothing...

EDIT: Oh good, Kath showed up.

[Gollum the Great]

Phew! I'm finally back!

I must admit that I'm surprised at how much Legate has been chasing after me (so to speak). All this "I can't get anything out of his votes so I'll keep up this Gollum topic" holds me amazed. Well I'm not going to suspect you for today (hahaha) but I think your overdoing it.

Innocentish:

Rune: he has (if I remember right) reasonable posts and find nothing particularly odd or suspicious about him.

Gwathagor: not much to base a suspicion on.

Mithalwen: see Gwath

Shasta: nothing to go by

Diamond: see above. Though I don't agree with her that the traitors are quiet.

Kath: for the reasons above.


Not so Innocent:

Legate: somewhat confusing posts. Not that he has been speaking in evil vein of me (if I use the expression correctly), but simply hounding on after anyone for half a long web page just looks like your trying to get others to follow you.

Brinniel: hard to explain. There's what seems an aura of queerness about her, so I have no grounds for a true suspicion.

Gaunt: hardly contibuted to the flow of discussion, and appeared to want both Nogrod and Groin out. Still, with so little evidence from him, I once again have nothing to really suspect.

Thinlomien: strange posts, it seemed to me, but if they were just to start the game going, then...

Have to vote now.

++Lommy

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, tell me about a good voting situation... :rolleyes:

Speaking of Shasta, now - has he been around AT ALL since some Day 1?!??

I was thinking about voting Brinniel, now, but this does not seem much like that could be done...

I am no way going to vote Rune, I still hold what I said, I think he is reasonable.

Hmph, whatever the course this village takes, I am quite discomforted...

[Brinniel]

Okay, I'm not gonna wait til the very last minute in case the mod's clock runs earlier than mine. So I will vote:

++Legate

For reasons I have stated earlier. There's just something sinister about him.

EDIT: X-ed with Legate

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I must admit that I'm surprised at how much Legate has been chasing after me (so to speak). All this "I can't get anything out of his votes so I'll keep up this Gollum topic" holds me amazed. Well I'm not going to suspect you for today (hahaha) but I think your overdoing it.

Okay, good master, but would you PLEASE AT LAST care to answer my question?!??? Why you voted Nogrod yesterday???

[Kath]

Hmm, so Legate starts off saying about the possibility that someone is trying to frame him AND Lommy. To be honest I think the Lovers idea is quite unlikely, but I think it possible that a guilty Legate might attach himself to an innocent Lommy in a 'who ... us?' kind of way.

Rune is being very vicious - particularly toward Mith. I wonder though whether he is simply trying to put her under pressure to see what she is.

Lommy, despite her efforts to paint me as a wolf, I think is posting quite innocently. In answer to a couple of her points against me, my Kitanna analysis was done in limited time, hence the confusion with what Nog and Legate said. Also, I think it was quite useful to see why Samwise was lynched, after all I'd missed much of the reasoning behind it so it was very useful to me.

So yeah:

++LEGATE

For the reasons from yesterDay and the fact that what I read of him from toDay made me no less suspicious.

[Brinniel]

Four minutes left...