Tol-in-Gaurhoth LII: Star Crossed II: Together for Eternity [Archive] - Page 3

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-02-2008, 10:16 AM

Hey Greenie. Since we seem to be the only ones around, I hope you don't mind if I take a look at your suspicions and ponder how closely they match mine. I don't really have anything better to do at the moment...

I agree with the consensus that Gollum seems newbie-ish, but when I've wolved with newbies before, there's often been some sort of night-time coaching. Kind of a 'Get it together before you get us killed!' thing. I feel like if he was somebody's Lover, he'd be a bit more careful. But if he is, who do you think would be his Lover? I lean toward Brinniel because of her defense of his newbie-ishness, but that seems to easy. The best way to defend a cohort in the spotlight is to stay out of the way and hope some well-meaning innocent does the job for you. Maybe twitch a few puppet strings here and there, you know? Anyway, I lean toward Gollum being more newbie-innocent than newbie-Lover. I can be swayed on this one.

Eomer. Now he's creeptastic and manipulative. But he is whether or not he's a bad guy and I'm willing to go out on a dangerous limb and say that I see no reason why we should kill him. He stirs up trouble, yes, but he thinks a lot like me, I've noticed. He's the type that I'd like very much to keep around until the end, if you don't mind.

I definitely agree with you about Agan being innocentish. Noggin I'm not so sure. Have you ever noticed that thing where people who know a lot are a lot more capable of imagining more? Maybe that's not common knowledge. Anyway, I've mentioned it before- people who know what their roles are (beyond ordo) are more likely to be able to successfully imagine the roles of their peers. Agan? She's so settled on her thoughts about what people could be. Nog is more open to the fact that Diamond could be lying left and right, that we could have a bizillion baddies, that etctera. See what I mean? He feels innocentish, but I'm meta-paranoid. Brinn I already suggested as maybe-worrisome.

I'm totally with you on the NO IDEA -ZONE. Groin, Sally, Shasta, McCaber... I've got nothin'. Gwath feels innocentish, but I'm not sure why.

Fea - I certainly want to look at her more closely if I have the time. Unlike the others on this zone, Fea seems both innocent and evil whereas the others seem neither. All in all, she baffles me.

I know. I'm sorry. I'll explain when I can. It's just awkward.

Brinniel

11-02-2008, 10:34 AM

Moving on, I'm not quite sure I like all these people with low post counts. Some of them just might not be thinking, but a few look like they're trying to hide something. I am spending valuable thought time on them, and sooner or later something will happen.
A rather hypocritical comment for you to be saying...considering you have the second lowest post count among the living.

Aganzir

11-02-2008, 11:09 AM

Hey I'm back.

1) I am wary of three people.

2) Because you seem to think I give weak reasons for being wary.
If you are wary of someone I expect you to give valid reasons. If you're a wolf who wants to make someone look bad (maybe not even look, but just make people have a bad feeling about her they can't put their finger on), one of the easiest things to do is just say someone looks *insert something suspicious* for no real reason. Your reasons which I quoted here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=571364&postcount=241) looked fabricated. You changed your opinion of Rikae right after it started to look she could be lynched on day 1.

3) Because I considered you excited.
NO - because you didn't tell me why it was that I looked excited. If you threaten to or actually vote me because of that, the least you should do is to elaborate. I still have no idea what makes me "too excited", and before I get some real reasons, I interpret it as in the underlined sentence up there.

4) Because I voted Lommy because I didn't trust her. I got the idea (now I may be wrong) from last game that it is better to vote than not. I had almost no grounds to vote anyone else, and I could have voted you.
You didn't trust her because she was a wolf in the last game! It has nothing to do with this one! If you suspected me more, why on earth didn't you vote for me? Maybe because Lommy was leading at that moment, and you wanted to ensure the lynching of someone who wasn't your lover?

5) Because I seem to be going with the flow of the other players.
You do.

If you consider me to be going with the other players, I ask you how anyone can do that since the range of opinions and suspicions is so wide and varied.
Arrrr this is the most evil response I've ever seen.
I am going to look through your posts again soonishly so as to sum up the posts before which I made my case. However, back then you conveniently changed your opinions as soon as it started to look somebody was suspected and might be lynched. I'm thinking about Rikae and Lommy mainly, and yes, also myself. If you don't give proper reasons for your suspicions, I have no reason, either, to think you have any reasons apart from getting someone else but yourself or your lover lynched.
Anyway as for your response, instead of admitting you go with the flow you try to say you're not doing it since it's not possible. Going with the flow doesn't mean you agree with everybody on everything - it means you agree surprisingly much with surprisingly many without giving yourself anything new to the discussion.

I see nothing wrong in considering you excited, being wary of 3 players, or of giving lame reasons for being wary (I mean, I didn't want to vote for those people).
I see very much wrong there if you have no reasons and refuse to give any when asked.

These attacks towards Gollum bother me. Some of what Gollum says is flawed, but they seem more like newbie mistakes. It just feels to me that he's an easy lynch target- a scapegoat. I'm uncomfortable voting for any easy lynch targets because most often they turn out innocent.
To me they don't. And if he was an easy lynch target, why isn't he dead already?
Brinn, are you Gollum's lover?

Brinniel just jumped from my Innocent list onto the Guilty one.

though her chosen no-vote makes her slightly less suspicious. But only slightly.
"But only slightly" because you wanted to discourage people stopping to suspect her?
Her defensiveness definitely bothers me. And now she has this "fine, lynch me" attitude...which seems like reverse psychology to me.
I think Rikae knows better than to think that works as reverse psychology in WW. She's been lynched for behaving "oddly" also earlier.

Brinn was I think the first to state she could vote Rikae, who was at that moment gaining quite a lot attention (and suspicion). Somehow I don't like her reasoning though.
--- She seems frustrated to the point where she's no longer making sense...but that could point to innocence or guilt. --- she's pulled this off before as a baddie and I don't want to fall for a bluff. ---

Because while I do have a bit of doubt, I worry that I'll later regret if I don't vote her. And anyway, simply knowing her role will give me a sigh of relief rather than just be left wondering..
It looks too apologetic and explanatory. Saying, "I would later regret it, I need to know for certain" is a way I've seen wolves excuse their vote a couple of times, and have done it myself as well. Somehow it's such an easy thing to say when you're a baddie and want to get an easy lynch but not look like you were after it.

I don't know what to think of Nog. I didn't like his fierce attacks on Mac and Rikae yesterday, but then on the other hand it was like 6.30 am here, and it's weekend, which might explain at least some of his aggressiveness.

All right I have to go to bed now. But taking these words from one who appears innocent, I vote:

++Rikae

Vote well!
Funny. To me Rikae and Mac looked more innocent than Nog at that point.
If they had voted well, they would have voted you.

Okay, as for today.

I wonder if Rikae thought I was the seer, or tried to make the baddies think so. There weren't that many posts she could have been referring to, and the way she treated me later (eg not really responding when I asked why she thought I was innocent) made me wonder. If she did try, she seems to have succeeded. Or then the baddies just figured I'm after them. ;)

As we approached DL yesterDay, it seemed like Rikae knew something important and that she was giving Mac hints about it. I would guess that the lovers killed Mac out of fear that he might have figured out what it was she was talking about (though I still have no idea).
This sounds possible.

Which brings me to the possibility I entertained yesterDay of there being four pairs but only two of them getting to make a kill at Night. Di may randomise it who gets to make a kill or they take turns or something...
Yes, I thought about it, too. But even if there were more than two pairs, we shouldn't be able to know the number. ;) There might be three or so as well.
I wonder why Nog wasn't killed. Was it because the baddies who tried to kill him the night before didn't get a kill last night? I can't see why they would leave him be when he would certainly not be protected. Or did they figure they could get him lynched, or do they want to bluff? Or did they just decide they have bigger fish to fry (Mac & me)? Were we somehow more dangerous to them?

Also I'd like to point out that being protected makes no one a known innocent in this game. The baddies were turned from our doors, but they couldn't see if Nog or I were sleeping calmly inside or going around in our nightly business. Therefore I can't say I really like Nog's known innocent show yesterday.

About lovers going for Aganzir and Mac I'd say they look like someone has been after a presumed rival baddie.
Why? Was I that suspicious-looking?

edit: xed with Greenie, Fea, McC & Brinn

Brinniel

11-02-2008, 11:33 AM

To me they don't. And if he was an easy lynch target, why isn't he dead already?
Brinn, are you Gollum's lover?

No, I am not. And if I were, do you really think I would be so obvious? :rolleyes:

Anyway, considering how wrong my assumptions of players have been so far, I probably should re-examine him.

Aganzir

11-02-2008, 11:46 AM

No, I am not. And if I were, do you really think I would be so obvious? :rolleyes:
I'd rather not rule out any possibility. ;)

Anyway I'm now working on a case on Gollum again and just came to see if there were any new posts.

Aganzir

11-02-2008, 12:27 PM

My last case against him was made on day two. I link here the two posts where I accused him then: #241 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=571364&postcount=241) and #259 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=571404&postcount=259).

On day 3 he didn't post much (apparently because of problems in his net connection) and when he came back, he didn't have any idea as to who to vote. He said he'd read and be back with "a list of suspicions and things". So, he was back - saying he had no idea of Groin, Eomer, Cab, Greenie, Gwath, and Eönwë (though he also said there was not a great deal to worry about him). He wasn't sure about Rikae because of not knowing if she had been joking about Mac. The only one he considered innocent was... *trumpet fanfare*
Brinn.-now here I think we have innocence. Just from the aura of her posts, that is.

Gollum, if I was to vote for Brinn to be lynched today, how would you defend her to me? I need more solid reasons than "just the aura of her posts", as you might know by now.

Voted for Eönwë "to save himself". He had one vote whereas Eönwë had two, and I don't think anyone who was yet to vote then was considering voting Gollum. Rikae (whom he seemed to suspect more) had two as well, but Gollum apparently xed with the second vote for her despite there being no mention of it. However, I don't think he wrote his post in one minute.

On day 4 Gollum said he can't make up his mind since either the players are not around or he "can't accuse them of anything for want of evidence". He said he keeps one or two under observation but nothing more. Now, Gollum, who were/are these "one or two"? Usually you should say it aloud unless you have a good reason to be silent about it.
Also, did I understand it correctly that the "want of evidence" part actually means "I can't accuse anyone because they want me to give reasons for it"? Sorry but that's the way it goes. You can't expect an innocent person to be like "Oh, he thinks I'm suspicious because my avatar looks gay and my signature is taken from a political rock song. That's alright - he must be innocent as well since I admit those are indeed suspicious things!"
If you really suspect me, why would you give it up just because I tell you to give reasons for it? Do you know what that looks like? That you don't care who you suspect as long as it's someone you're not related to in any way.

He also said he didn't have time to search for my case against him. I think it was quite easily found there if you just bothered to read the thread. Did you read? No wonder you couldn't come up with anyone to suspect.
Believe it or not, it's actually allowed to read posts from the previous days as well.

When Gwath asked him why people should refrain from voting him if he doesn't bother to respond to their accusations, he said one objection is not enough for him to spend time on (he changed his mind a short while later though when Gwath commented on it). This looks more like lack of interest than being evil, to be honest. If Gollum's a baddie he might want to be more keen on defending himself. However, if he didn't read the thread, he might not even have known there was a case against him. On the other hand, he seems not to have had time for it then (12.37 am my time he said he'd probably have to start working), and he promised to do it later (02.23 am he replied to my accusations).

His response is treated with here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=571849&postcount=504).

He voted for Rikae, his reason being the following part in Nog's post (who, in his opinion, appeared innocent):
That did it...

Rikae = a baddie
Macalaure = a baddie

But they are not on the same side. I quess Rikae's team is the one that was responsibole for the deaths of Lal and Kit and Mac's team killed Legate and tried to kill me. Unless there are two more teams which kind of makes this speculation anew... and which I believe in.

But that doesn't change the basic point: they both have made their mark and have been remarkably vocal toDay. The early voting compared with their increased activity after that is just one thing.
I think this was pretty bad reasoning on Nog's part. I dislike his certainty of Rikae & Mac's guilt and the way he instantly started speculating whose team killed whom.
However, what also worries me is that Gollum didn't mention at all that he voted for Rikae because he was leading on votes himself at that moment and also Rikae was a good lynching candidate. The way he voted looks too clean. Like he didn't want to bring any attention on the fact that he had votes as well.
Then he asked Nog what was wrong with taking his words as a basis for his vote since he couldn't make up his mind otherwise.

Now that I've done with this I can understand more easily why some of you said he looks like an innocent newbie. However, he still looks more like an evil newbie to me, and I'm up for voting him today as well.

I am experiencing a similar feeling as when painting - there's so much I should do but when I start on something, I won't have time for something else and in the end I always run out of time.

McCaber

11-02-2008, 01:01 PM

Gollum doesn't look so good. I should go back and see what other submarines could be like that.

I was doing some thinking about the enemies. If Nogrod was right and there are two teams, one started out eliminating quiet players and the other trying to find their rivals. Last night the quiet team changed its strategy. This might be accompanied by people changing their in-game strategies as well. If there are more than two teams, then I'm completely wrong.

Aganzir

11-02-2008, 01:24 PM

Cab
day 2
-thought I was innocent.
-thought Eönwë's posts lacked content.
-thought Eomer was confusing.
-considered voting a fellow quiet one randomly so as to see how they react.
-considered voting Eönwë who looked something other than an innocent. Voted him.
day 3
-found "who would kill Nogrod?" a worthwhile question but didn't have an answer.
-found Gwath's overt defense of Nogrod a bit weird.
-thought Rikae and Nog looked innocent.
-didn't consider voting Gollum since his lack of posts looked more like newbie/lack of time than suspicious.
-voted Mac. Why?
day 4
-doesn't like all the people with low post counts - a few of them look like they're trying to hide something. Who?
-thinks Gollum doesn't look good. What made you change your mind?

Few posts but I think Cabbie looks pretty innocent - or the feeling I get from his posts is honest-looking. However, I'd like to hear a bit more reasons for some things. I'm not too worried about him for the time being, but I'd still like to see him talk more. ;)

A Little Green

11-02-2008, 01:28 PM

I'm back here again and will vote soon. My vote will probably go for Gollum toDay, since he is the one who looks most suspicious to me at the moment. But if he is, who do you think would be his Lover?I haven't paid that much attention this far - I'm not as convinced as Agan that it's Brinn, it would seem far too obvious, but then, who else? If the couples are always one male and one female, it logically is either Brinn, Agan, Fea or Sally. For some reason I'm inclined to think it isn't Agan since she is attacking him with such ferocity. Even she wouldn't dare to make such a strong attack on her lover. That leaves then Brinn, Fea and Sally. I don't know about them. Of course if our dear moddess is not very conservative and allows lovers of the same sex, I'll be completely off track with this speculation. :rolleyes:
Eomer. Now he's creeptastic and manipulative. But he is whether or not he's a bad guy and I'm willing to go out on a dangerous limb and say that I see no reason why we should kill him.I don't recall ever playing with Eomer before, so I had no idea whether he is always like that. Anyway, I agree that we shouldn't lynch him toDay. I'll have an eye on him in any case, since he feels like the kind of player who can easily sneak away with almost anything...

What else? Agan's fierce attack on Gollum seems a bit heavy - but then, on the other hand, I agree with her points and the posts give me the impression of an innocent Agan who is convinced that she has spotted a baddie rather than that of an evil Agan trying to mislead us. I think the latter would be somewhat more subtle.

EDIT: x-ed with Agan

A Little Green

11-02-2008, 01:35 PM

Gah, I think bedtime is approaching... :) I'll vote

++ Gollum

for reasons I have already stated, mainly in my list post. Good night and Night, darlings.

Aganzir

11-02-2008, 01:38 PM

If the couples are always one male and one female, it logically is either Brinn, Agan, Fea or Sally.
Mac said that in the previous game same-sex couples were allowed so I guess we have no reason to assume it isn't the case with this one as well. Otherwise we could just go by my day1 plan and systematically lynch all the females. ;)

Even she wouldn't dare to make such a strong attack on her lover.
Are you sure? I might find it funny, especially if Gollum was my lover.

Hmm I was still planning to go through at least Gwath & sally's posts but actually I think I'll go to sleep soon and wake up a bit earlier to vote since my school starts an hour before the deadline anyway.

edit: xed with Greeny

Eomer of the Rohirrim

11-02-2008, 01:40 PM

Groin
Aganzir
Gollum
Nogrod
Brinniel
Sally
Shasta
Gwath
McCaber
Fea
Greenie
Eomer

Here are the players. Is it considered improper to start lynching females? I'm currently suspecting Greenie and Brinniel for reasons I can't quite explain rationally. Lovers games always bring up this difficulty: would the mod assign lovers roles to same sexes? I'm not sure. For all my talk of building cases based on facts I'm certainly not reaching anything like good conclusions based on known nightly activity.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

11-02-2008, 01:41 PM

Cross posted, obviously! :p

Brinniel

11-02-2008, 01:43 PM

Groin: His carelessness towards the game makes me think he's most likely an ordo. And if he's not, it's not very fair to other players of the game.

Aganzir: I don't see anything terribly fishy about her. She's been consistent with her suspicions and her reasons behind suspecting Gollum are well grounded.

Gollum: His posts are short and don't contain much substance, and the ones that do are vague and flawed. It's definitely newbie behaviour, but I'm beginning to question whether it's innocent or evil newbie behaviour.

Nogrod: He's made a lot of errors so far, but it's not like the rest of us haven't. I just don't think he would've made such bold attacks against Rikae and acted to be so sure of his death if he were a lover.

Sally: She's posted a lot less than she normally does. Granted some of it's due to RL, but still. I've been somewhat suspecting her because of her strange behaviour and that she's been playing safely. But would an evil Sally be quieter, or would she be posting more?

Shasta: I suspected him at first, but I'm doubting my suspicions more and more. Mainly because he's been consistent and has not been playing as safe as some other players. Also, I beginning to agree with his supicions of McCaber.

Gwath: I don't why he keeps falling under my radar, but he still is. Looking at his posts, nothing really alarms me as suspicious...but at the same time, nothing in his posts make him look at all that innocent. So I just don't know.

McCaber: With the second least amount of posts, he has been quite submarine-ish...yet he keeps saying he suspects the players who have made few posts and are submarines. That really bothers me.

Fea: The fact that she doesn't say a whole lot about what she thinks of current living players and spends more time speculating about rules and past events does worry me.

Greenie: I'm having a lot of trouble getting a good read on her. She remains quite the mystery to me.

Eomer: Still seems calm and quiet. I don't know...for that reason, should I be suspicious?

Conclusion:

Suspicious
McCaber
Fea

Worried About
Gollum
Sally
Eomer

No Idea
Gwath
Greenie

Innocentish
Groin
Aganzir
Nogrod
Shasta

Nogrod

11-02-2008, 01:45 PM

If Nogrod was right and there are two teamsIf I'm right, there are four teams (or three, you're of course correct here Agan). What makes me a bit worried with McCaber is the fact that he uses the little posting he does to thins kind of general speculation rather than trying to find the culprits... Not to talk of his "slightly" hypocritical suspicions on the non-posters or insubstantial posters (that's twice already).

I also find this somewhat suspicious:Props to the ranger. Two protects in a row is great. And Nogrod is still alive. Odds are good for us.I just find this unwarranted praise for / confidence in me very suspicious. Look at my record this far in this game! I have been an utter failure and a lot-posting disaster! So the fact that I'm alive makes our odds particularly good? :rolleyes:

It looks more like a classical "wolf buddying up" someone wishing to increase the feel good factor and stay out of any closer scrutiny or suspcions.

Also I'd like to say that Agan has made some reasonable points on Gollum and I'm thinking he might be one of those I could vote toDay.

So what's up? I'm strongly suggesting a change of tactics. The lovers seem to be very much after the vocal and independent-minded players so we should stop lynching them ourselves.

My vote will very probably go toDay for someone from the down-end of the posting count (or someone who has posted more but has not actually given up her/his thoughts).

McCaber

11-02-2008, 02:03 PM

I'm not too worried about him for the time being, but I'd still like to see him talk more. ;)
So would I.

I changed my opinion because I noticed what I had previously brushed off before. So it's Aganzir's fault, then.

I've taken a look at Gwath. I'm not seeing anything strong one way or the other, but he hasn't made any memorable statements and seems to have slipped out of people's minds.

A Little Green

11-02-2008, 02:07 PM

My vote will very probably go toDay for someone from the down-end of the posting count (or someone who has posted more but has not actually given up her/his thoughts).Have to comment though I'm really really going to sleep now... :rolleyes: It's good that you made the addition in brackets - I think we need to make the distinction between people who post little and people who contribute little. They are often the same guys, but not always. It's important to remember that a person can be contributing while posting little, and not contributing while posting a whole lot. Also, there are people who make a few long posts and people who make a lot of short ones. I'm not saying which is the "right" way - I'm just saying that people have very different ways of posting and therefore looking too much at the post count may not be beneficial.

Nogrod

11-02-2008, 02:12 PM

What else? Agan's fierce attack on Gollum seems a bit heavy - but then, on the other hand, I agree with her points and the posts give me the impression of an innocent Agan who is convinced that she has spotted a baddie rather than that of an evil Agan trying to mislead us.Now let's remember this is lover's game and the normal interpreting procedures are in a large part not valid. The baddies are not trying to mislead us into voting innocents but they are after their rivals. I understand your point Fea as long as we talk of the very first Days. But with a chance of there being 8 baddies and only 4 innocents left the baddies surely are now feverishly looking at their rivals to get them lynched or killed by Night. So the baddies really try to lynch baddies now - as well as they go for them at Nights.

That's a good thing for us indeed. Sadly it seems they have been as bad in making the right decisions as we have.

On a second note I'm getting some bad vibes from Brinn and Eomer. They are both smooth and sensible - and Brinniel even seems to think about exactly the same I do... I mean looking at her latest suspicious - not suspicious list could be made by me. :rolleyes:

I'm not going to vote either of them toDay unless something drastic happens but I just wanted to remind you others that the smoothest players are oftentimes the most terrible enemies.

X'd with McCaber & Greenie

Gollum the Great

11-02-2008, 03:03 PM

These quotes are from the Animated Lion:

Gollum, if I was to vote for Brinn to be lynched today, how would you defend her to me? I need more solid reasons than "just the aura of her posts", as you might know by now.

In all seriousness, I was merely saying what I thought of Brinn.

Voted for Eönwë "to save himself". He had one vote whereas Eönwë had two, and I don't think anyone who was yet to vote then was considering voting Gollum.

Pardon me. Eonwe and I were tied and I had been given my 2nd vote first, so next in line to be lynched.

On day 4 Gollum said he can't make up his mind since either the players are not around or he "can't accuse them of anything for want of evidence". He said he keeps one or two under observation but nothing more. Now, Gollum, who were/are these "one or two"? Usually you should say it aloud unless you have a good reason to be silent about it.

I kept the names to myself because the last time I said who I was wary of you made a big thing about it. And to be honest, I don't recall who I had in mind.

Also, did I understand it correctly that the "want of evidence" part actually means "I can't accuse anyone because they want me to give reasons for it"? Sorry but that's the way it goes. You can't expect an innocent person to be like "Oh, he thinks I'm suspicious because my avatar looks gay and my signature is taken from a political rock song. That's alright - he must be innocent as well since I admit those are indeed suspicious things!"

By want of evidence I meant there was nothing to suspect them about in the actual content of whatever they said.
And whose avvy and sig are you referring to?

If you really suspect me, why would you give it up just because I tell you to give reasons for it? Do you know what that looks like? That you don't care who you suspect as long as it's someone you're not related to in any way.

How did you get the idea I've stopped suspecting you? I don't remember saying I quit doing that.
And how many people agree with Agan that it looks like I don't care who I vote for? If it really does seem that I don't care, I'll try to at least make it seem that I'm interested (if I'm not lynched first). I do vote for those I think should be.

He also said he didn't have time to search for my case against him. I think it was quite easily found there if you just bothered to read the thread. Did you read? No wonder you couldn't come up with anyone to suspect.

Of course I didn't read through to find your argument. I said before that I had to work.

Believe it or not, it's actually allowed to read posts from the previous days as well.

There's no reason to be sarcastic.

When Gwath asked him why people should refrain from voting him if he doesn't bother to respond to their accusations, he said one objection is not enough for him to spend time on (he changed his mind a short while later though when Gwath commented on it). This looks more like lack of interest than being evil, to be honest. If Gollum's a baddie he might want to be more keen on defending himself. However, if he didn't read the thread, he might not even have known there was a case against him. On the other hand, he seems not to have had time for it then (12.37 am my time he said he'd probably have to start working), and he promised to do it later (02.23 am he replied to my accusations).

Now in this respect I really want to be believed. I am very much interested in this game (why would I have joined it otherwise? check the admin thread to see what thought of simply starting to play.).
Oh yes. I work bizarre hours sometimes.

He asked Nog what was wrong with taking his words as a basis for his vote since he couldn't make up his mind otherwise.

Hey! we're all allowed to play differently. Also, what was wrong with doing that?

Nogrod

11-02-2008, 03:22 PM

YesterDay's votes (given reasons given for those still alive):

Mac for Eomer

Groin for Rikae - "I know, I suck at this game. I've been focusing on getting my GPA up lately and have lost interest and time for this. I expect that this will be my last game so I'm just going to vote right."

Rikae for Gollum

(Btw., one reason to believe that Rikae and/or Mac was a wolf yesterDay was surely the fact that they voted very early but were still able to stick around for hours and hours - and neither of them said they were especially confident with their votes when they casted them; I'm pretty confident that was one of the main reasons a pair of lovers went for Mac last Night.)

Eomer for Little Green - "I will vote for the other person incriminated by my somewhat arbitrary Nogrod-theory ... I can't go with feelings because I'm sure Greenie is capable of displaying an air of nonchalance over any hidden evil."

(Btw. Eomer defended Gollum a bit earlierOh dear. I see a dangerous bandwagon forming. Not that there are no points against Gollum but don't let today's voting be wasted. Pick your own vote; don't let others do it for you.even if I'm not too sure there actually was a real bandwagon forming... there sure was only one vote at that point.)

Aganzir for Gollum - well, she had been after him for a long time and I'm not going to retype or search for all her points...

Shasta for McCaber - quite out of the blue (his only post yesterDay just voting?). The day before he said - among reasons to vote others - "I could vote McCaber without a qualm just to get a total unknown out of the way".

Gollum for Rikae - "taking these words from one [me that is] who appears innocent" so completely washing his own hands of the vote?

Nogrod for Rikae - I'm not going to recite all that, really... :o

Fea for Rikae - "I have to, love. I'm sure you understand. Before today I found you suspicious, but I might have concentrated elsewhere. Today, though? With the code-talk with Mac and the twitchy reactions to everything? I can't not."

McCaber for Mac - "Ordinarily it would be Rikae all the way, but I promised not to do so this round". I found no other explanation for it... Interesting as it was a totla throw-away vote after all?

Sally for Rikae - "I'll (hopefully) explain in a bit". She made the same promise twice in the early hours of toDay as well...

Brinn for Rikae - after a long sustained suspcion on yesterDay she said: "I apologise Rikae if you are actually telling the truth, but as of now I just don't believe you are".

Gwath for Shasta - "I realize it won't make any difference at this point. I also hope this doesn't seem like too much of a throwaway vote. I really honestly mean to look more closely at Shasta tomorrow".

Greenie said already early she will not and she didn't vote.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

11-02-2008, 03:23 PM

On a second note I'm getting some bad vibes from Brinn and Eomer. They are both smooth and sensible - and Brinniel even seems to think about exactly the same I do... I mean looking at her latest suspicious - not suspicious list could be made by me. :rolleyes:

It's funny. I feel exactly the same way about Brinniel. Of course, I don't recommend that you choose me on the same basis. ;)

I'm very wary, though, of Nogrod and Aganzir: the tendency is to think of them as innocent because of the Ranger saves but I would hate to let them free at this stage if they are evil.

I'm going to look again at yesterday's voting and then vote myself, for I must go to bed.

satansaloser2005

11-02-2008, 03:31 PM

Okie dokie. I am A: awake, B: not trapped in a dark room, and C: not covered in fake blood/strawberry syrup (curse our low budget heh) so as promised....

Basically my vote yesterday was on instinct, at least in a way. Rikae's amazingly deceptive, as I'm sure you can all agree, so I tend not to trust her unless I'm somehow convinced to do otherwise. Fool me twice, etc.

Also, the way she was talking to Mac seemed too sneaky and suspicious. Granted when Legate did it during the first Day or so he was joking, but I would assume that an innocent Rikae would just come out with her theory and share it for the benefit of the group but the way she was speaking to Mac was too covert and undercover, and it just cried wolf to me.

The way she acted yesterDay in general (and the entire performance with Noggie) just struck me as horribly over the top. (Not that I don't like the way you play, love, it just made you look quite guilty).

Other than that, it was a "I need to vote in the next ten minutes or I won't get a chance to" type of thing and she was the best candidate I could come up with in such a short amount of time and reading.

I'm doing some leftover cleanup from the Haunted House among other things so I'm rather busy-ish, but I promised you all an explanation for my vote yesterDay and I'm not going to put it off any longer.

EDIT: x'd since....meh, I'm just pretty sure it's x'd somewhere.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

11-02-2008, 03:32 PM

But Nogrod, in quick succesion Fea, Gwath and Aganzir were interrogating Gollum, and then Rikae voted. In the moments I posted it looked as though it was going to be a wave of Gollum votes. How odd that it ended up being for Rikae; I really think she could have avoided that. Nevertheless, Gollum has always looked suspicious (though he did it last game as an ordo too) and it wasn't so much Gollum-votes that I warn against, rather votes without an explanation.

You know the sort: "Oh obviously Gollum has to die" comments, that help no-one.

Unless he really is a baddie. :p

Gah. Can't decide.

Nogrod

11-02-2008, 03:36 PM

Of course, I don't recommend that you choose me on the same basis. ;)Truisms rule OK.? :D

I'm very wary, though, of Nogrod and Aganzir: the tendency is to think of them as innocent because of the Ranger saves but I would hate to let them free at this stage if they are evil.If there is indeed that kind of tendency it is indeed ill-informed - and I'm not sure either one of us has indeed claimed innocence because of the ranger-saves. The lovers are after each other as I've said a gazillion of times and I'm not assuming Agan is innocent.

EDIT: X'd with Sally & Eomer

Aganzir

11-02-2008, 03:36 PM

Guess who's the worst person ever at going to sleep early.

Hey Cab, there were still two questions you didn't answer.
-voted Mac. Why?
day 4
-doesn't like all the people with low post counts - a few of them look like they're trying to hide something. Who?

These quotes are from the Animated Lion:
:D:D Love that nickname. Let's get married!

In all seriousness, I was merely saying what I thought of Brinn.
But if I don't see an aura of innocence about her posts, how would you elaborate on it?

I kept the names to myself because the last time I said who I was wary of you made a big thing about it. And to be honest, I don't recall who I had in mind.
Because your reasons back then seemed so false. But in the future that shouldn't be a reason to withhold your thoughts.

By want of evidence I meant there was nothing to suspect them about in the actual content of whatever they said.
Ahh sorry, I completely misinterpreted it. Although I know the word want means also lack, somehow I thought you meant "because they want me to explain why I suspect them".

And whose avvy and sig are you referring to?
Eomer's.
(Not really. My own. FYI, I don't use the word gay as an insult, being more or less one myself.)

How did you get the idea I've stopped suspecting you? I don't remember saying I quit doing that.
That was a conclusion reached in the misinterpreted part and therefore meaningless.

There's no reason to be sarcastic.
That's the same as if you said to Rikae that there's no reason to accuse people. ;) It's my nature.

Hey! we're all allowed to play differently. Also, what was wrong with doing that?
You should never ever trust anyone in WW, except maybe seer-revealed innocents in a game with no twists, unlike this. In my opinion Nogrod's reasons you based your vote on where exceptionally bad and therefore it looks like you were just trying to justify a vote for Rikae.

You still didn't explain what exactly makes me look too excited, and I'd still like to hear it, though.

All in all, Gollum's response to me made me feel much better about him. If guilty, I would have expected him to be much more nervous by now - or then I have just underestimated him thus far.
Anyway, I'm not so sure anymore I'm going to vote him.

edit: xed since the beginning of this page

Eomer of the Rohirrim

11-02-2008, 03:40 PM

++GWATHAGOR

Just thinking about people playing it cool, Gwath is certainly one of those. This doesn't go along with any of my previous suspicions but I've been pretty clueless so far. I thought I'd do something different.

No offence meant, Gwath. I think you're a good player. That's kinda why I picked you. :cool:

He reminds me slightly of the phantom, y'know? That might make sense to some of you.

I'm out of here. Goodnight.

Nogrod

11-02-2008, 03:56 PM

Agan and Brinn are both argumentative and active. We're going to need them in this village. I'm not voting them even if I'd have my suspicions on them at least on the feeling-level.

I'm feeling all the more sorry about yesterDay as I really thought I was going to be dead after that and thence went on after Rikae. Had I not known I was saved the Night before I would have wished to see Rikae around for the very same reasons.

Then again I'm not too sure about Agan's latest. I mean it makes no sense they are lovers and she makes that enormous case against Gollum only to back away from it that way when Gollum makes something like a decent defence. But what I have a trouble with is her interpretation of that defence. I've seen enough newbies playing it low key and acting more unaware of things than they actually are - and then jump on defence when suspected heavily if they are baddies. Otherwise many of them just lay low and lose their interest in the worst case.

I mean there is a kind of character that has no interest in playing when her/his role is that of an innocent but they wil do all if they have a role, especially that of a baddie.

Even if I'm not sure that is the case with Gollum I'm surprised by Agan's reaction to his post.

Eomer: you keep on reading my mind and that worries me indeed! It's just so nice, too nice from my point of view. But as I know you are also one of those who could make a difference in the end-game I'm not going to vote you either.

Darn, my computer time is running out...

I'll post shortly as I get home even if I need to go to sleep pretty soonish.

Shastanis Althreduin

11-02-2008, 03:57 PM

Two things from me so far.

1. Our kill methods have started to vary. Earlier, the nightKills were done via stabbing, but tonight, Mac was smothered.

2. Every day so far, Aganzir has used the word "marry" (or some form thereof) in her posts, and I wouldn't put it past Di to make that a role requirement.

Just some food for thought, for now.

Aganzir

11-02-2008, 04:04 PM

Then again I'm not too sure about Agan's latest. I mean it makes no sense they are lovers and she makes that enormous case against Gollum only to back away from it that way when Gollum makes something like a decent defence.
Nogrod, I wouldn't say I'm backing away. Gollum is still my top suspect but now I'm not anymore 100% sure he's a baddie, as I used to be.

2. Every day so far, Aganzir has used the word "marry" (or some form thereof) in her posts, and I wouldn't put it past Di to make that a role requirement.
Will you marry me Shasta?
Seriously, that's my nature.

I am off to sleep now. Really.

McCaber

11-02-2008, 04:06 PM

-voted Mac. Why?
day 4
-doesn't like all the people with low post counts - a few of them look like they're trying to hide something. Who? I voted for Mac because at the time he seemed pretty suspicious. It was sort of a throwaway vote, but Rikae was obviously dead and I wanted to make my suspicions clear.

The people trying to hide - Gollum, from what I can tell. Gwath would be my second choice; he hasn't really been open about his opinions and for all the posts he's made they haven't been very helpful. And if I had to pick a third, it would probably be Shasta. I get the feeling that people have let him slide by and he hasn't been doing anything to change that.

Groin would be devoting more time to this if he were a villian, I would suppose. But that may just be the air he wants to cultivate.

Today my vote will probably be either Gollum or Gwath.\

EDIT: crossed with Shasta and Aganzir.

satansaloser2005

11-02-2008, 04:07 PM

Nogrod, I wouldn't say I'm backing away. Gollum is still my top suspect but now I'm not anymore 100% sure he's a baddie, as I used to be.

Will you marry me Shasta?
Seriously, that's my nature.

I am off to sleep now. Really.

You haven't proposed to me yet. I'm trying to decide whether to be grateful or insulted. ;)

Not that I should talk, but is it just me or are Shasta's posts pretty fluffy? I need to take another look at him; I'm sure he's posted worthwhile information, it's just that I keep forgetting he's even in the game and that concerns me. Off to read and do other necessities.

EDIT: x'd with Cabbie. We all live in a yellow submarine....sorry. That just kind of got stuck in my head. (No, seriously, it did.)
EDIT #2: Crap. I've not been bolding my posts all game, I believe. So sorry. This one's fixed, if that helps.

Shastanis Althreduin

11-02-2008, 04:14 PM

I've only been gone one day! Sheesh. :(

satansaloser2005

11-02-2008, 04:16 PM

I've only been gone one day! Sheesh. :(

Sweetie, I just meant that the posts I saw weren't very long, not that you'd been gone. Chillax, my dear. I'm hardly joining the "lynch Shasta" campaign. Not yet, anyway. *scampers off again, and kicks herself because she just did the same thing she accused you of....bah*

McCaber

11-02-2008, 04:19 PM

We all live in a yellow submarine....sorry. That just kind of got stuck in my head. (No, seriously, it did.)

Whatever you're trying to say about me, I refuse to listen. Unless it's also about everyone else, then I will use it against them ruthlessly.

(Expressing myself would be a lot easier if I let myself use smilies. Oh well.)

satansaloser2005

11-02-2008, 04:28 PM

Whatever you're trying to say about me, I refuse to listen. Unless it's also about everyone else, then I will use it against them ruthlessly.

(Expressing myself would be a lot easier if I let myself use smilies. Oh well.)

*hugs you* :smokin::eek::Merisu:

I simply pick the wrong times to randomly burst into song, apparently. And yes, self-expression with smilies is infinitely better than without.

Randomly....pretend I'm Noggie for all of however long it takes to read this.
"Yes, I agree, I'm not cleared. Just because the Ranger saved me doesn't mean I'm a known innocent, and I don't expect anyone to think that." Etc, etc. It's almost as if the gentleman protests too much, only in reverse.

I'm not saying that it makes him guilty, but it's almost as if he's sitting there thinking "if I tell them that they shouldn't trust me enough, maybe they'll take me for an innocent because I'm so humble". Not humble, but the English major fails at words today. It just rather worries me.

Nogrod

11-02-2008, 04:31 PM

Today my vote will probably be either Gollum or Gwath.Those two happen to be the only ones who have garnered votes this far toDay...

Sorry McCaber but your stance looks too convenient to be that of an innocent. Really.

As I'm not going to risk sleeping too late another time so that I can't post before I need to go to school I will vote now.

++ McCaber

You can pick other reasons for this from my earlier posts toDay. It's getting 1AM and my alarmclock will ring at six... :(

PS. Don't forget the Gollum-Brinn / Gollum-Eomer possibilities either!

McCaber

11-02-2008, 04:44 PM

Those two happen to be the only ones who have garnered votes this far toDay...

Perhaps there's a reason they've garnered votes today. With many of the talkative players gone people are going back and taking a look for things they may have missed. In this case, I missed Gollum and Gwath, as apparently several others did too.

Nogrod

11-02-2008, 04:46 PM

Nogrod

11-02-2008, 04:51 PM

Perhaps there's a reason they've garnered votes today. With many of the talkative players gone people are going back and taking a look for things they may have missed.That's sensible indeed. But I still must say your choice looks like the easiest one... there would be a host of reasons to vote every single one of us, believe me.

It's only that just a few of those cases are correct and the others are due to us being only imperfect humans who make mistakes and because every sincere statement can be suspected not only of bluffing but also of double-bluffing... :)

satansaloser2005

11-02-2008, 04:55 PM

An interesting conspiracy-theory to add...

This far all those dead or those that have been tried to be killed have been more or less vocal or independent-minded / substantive. All the adjectives don't fit to everyone but most do.

Di also said there will be no modfire.

So did she deliberately pick the ones she thought would be the sneakiest in playing it low for her lovers in this game and kind of grinned when stating there will be no modfire? That would indeed be a scenario in which I might be persuaded to believe there are only two pairs of lovers in this game...

Oh, and adding to my suspicion-list of those a bit more vocal ones: like someone already said Fea seems to discuss mostly the questions that concern the structure and mechanics of the game being careful not to suspect actual players too much... That is sneaky indeed.

Would Di really be that evil? I mean, I know she's a traitorous wench but that may be too sadistic even for her. ;)

Re: Fea
At the risk of sounding like a Gollum, erm, parrot, I thought the same thing. I haven't paid a lot of attention to her the last Day or two (which is of course my own fault) but I found it very odd that for a while a lot of her posts were about the game structure and not the actual game itself. That's actually something I was going to mention about her later, but I figured I may as well mention it now since you sort of reminded me of it.

(Oh, and Nog? Go to bed, love. Sally commands it to be so, that you may rest well and have a good day tomorrow.) :)

EDIT: x'd with the last post from a certain Noggin. ;)

Shastanis Althreduin

11-02-2008, 05:20 PM

What I've gathered today:

Nog is either evil, or being obviously set up.

Agan has a (rather large, actually) case against Gollum.

What did I miss? :p

And I still think the kill method change is relevant, somehow.

Gollum the Great

11-02-2008, 05:27 PM

What I've gathered today:

Agan has a (rather large, actually) case against Gollum.

*Claps and cheers* You just scored 100%!!!

Aganzir, I have given you all my reasons for believing you (in the past) to be excited. Why are you continuing to question me on that topic?

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-02-2008, 05:29 PM

I wish Rikae was still here. I'm reasonably certain she had it figured out.

I have to assume that's why Mac was killed- he was getting close.

:(

Please don't make me spell it out for you. It's complicated and I don't want to try to explain.

satansaloser2005

11-02-2008, 05:30 PM

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-02-2008, 05:51 PM

satansaloser2005

11-02-2008, 05:56 PM

I'm a seer who's only allowed to dream of innocents. If I dream of a Lover, I die. If a Lover pair kills me, they and I all die. If the village kills me, everybody who voted for me is retributionally slaughtered.

You wanted why I've seemed like I'm not on anybody's side?

It's because I've been playing with the hope that I don't die because if I die, so do several others. And I'd very much love to figure out more roles before I go. Which is, since you were all wondering, the reason I'm so fixated on roles: I can't dream of baddies, but I can try to corner them during the day.

On the plus side, I can tell you that Nog's an ordo.

Wow. Erm....forget I asked? (not that you exploded or anything, I just wasn't expecting that)

Hold up. You can't dream of baddies? How is that even possible? Say if you PM Di and say "I want to know what Noggie is" (I use him since you say you know what he is) and she says she can't answer that's your answer then, isn't it? How would Di keep you from dreaming baddies without letting you know you were dreaming baddies?

I feel stupid now. I'm going to go sulk in a corner. Back later.

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-02-2008, 06:04 PM

How would Di keep you from dreaming baddies without letting you know you were dreaming baddies?

It's not that it's against the rules for me to do it.

It's that if I accidentally dream of a bad guy, I die.

So if I'd dreamed of any baddies? I would be dead already.

Believe me, it's scary sending out a PM to the moddess hoping that your choice of dream isn't going to get you killed.

McCaber

11-02-2008, 06:06 PM

Fea, that's easily one of the most devilish roles I've ever heard of. (On the moderator's behalf, that is. I don't mean to say that you're a devil.) I'd doubt you, but I don't think you can make something like that up. Congratulations on lasting this long.

Is Nogrod the only one you dreamt of who's still alive?

EDIT: crossed with Fea

satansaloser2005

11-02-2008, 06:07 PM

It's not that it's against the rules for me to do it.

It's that if I accidentally dream of a bad guy, I die.

So if I'd dreamed of any baddies? I would be dead already.

Believe me, it's scary sending out a PM to the moddess hoping that your choice of dream isn't going to get you killed.

Oh! I completely misunderstood your last post. That makes a lot more sense. And makes life a lot more difficult for you indeed. *gives poor Fea a hug*

Okay. I just read your post again and caught the whole thing. GOOD LORD! Di is a twisted wench. (As a sadist I love it, but as a player....wow....seriously not cool)

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-02-2008, 06:14 PM

Is Nogrod the only one you dreamt of who's still alive?

Yes.

Brinniel

11-02-2008, 06:29 PM

I'm a seer who's only allowed to dream of innocents. If I dream of a Lover, I die. If a Lover pair kills me, they and I all die. If the village kills me, everybody who voted for me is retributionally slaughtered.

Oh, very clever. That's a convenient way to make both the village and the lovers be afraid to kill you. Di may be twisted, but she's not that twisted. Because if nobody believed and everyone voted you, the game would be over just like that. And I can't imagine any mod wanting their game to end that fast.

Nobody believe Fea, she's lying through her teeth and trying to screw with our heads. I don't think she's a lover, though. Pulling something like this is too risky for a lover. No...she's something else....

satansaloser2005

11-02-2008, 06:32 PM

Oh, very clever. That's a convenient way to make both the village and the lovers be afraid to kill you. Di may be twisted, but she's not that twisted. Because if nobody believed and everyone voted you, the game would be over just like that. And I can't imagine any mod wanting their game to end that fast.

Nobody believe Fea, she's lying through her teeth and trying to screw with our heads. I don't think she's a lover, though. Pulling something like this is too risky for a lover. No...she's something else....

I don't think she'd be lying about being the Seer though. The "lovers kill me and they die thing" is probably a bluff to keep herself alive, but it would be too easy for the real seer to come out and nab her, which would mean instant loss (at least for her and her partner) so it would be a bad plan to try something that outrageous.

Brinniel

11-02-2008, 06:33 PM

She's not the seer. She's lying.

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-02-2008, 06:34 PM

That's a convenient way to make both the village and the lovers be afraid to kill you.

Yeah, that sort of being the point...

When you don't want to die, you find ways to stay alive.

The truth is a great way to go.

So how 'bout telling us what you are?

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-02-2008, 06:35 PM

She's not the seer. She's lying.

Hunny, if I'm lying about anything, that ain't it.

You really don't want to do this.

Brinniel

11-02-2008, 06:44 PM

You really don't want to do this
Do what?

I don't want to lynch you because then your whole purpose would be fulfilled.

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-02-2008, 06:45 PM

Do what?

I don't want to lynch you because then your whole purpose would be fulfilled.

What on earth do you think my purpose is? To die?

Gwathagor

11-02-2008, 06:47 PM

WOW this is getting complicated.

Brinn, if Fea is not a lover and not a seer, what else is left? What do you think she is?

I'm not sure what to think about Fea yet. I'm always initially skeptical of role reveals because you basically have to take the player's word for it. There was a post or two the other day that made me wonder about her though; I'll go back and find it.

The manner in which Aganzir has conducted her case against Gollum makes me think her innocent. I imagine that a baddie would have continued to pursue the case even after Gollum's response, as there seemed to be a substantial degree of suspicion developing against Gollum. If what she wanted was to lynch an innocent, she was doing a pretty good job and would have had no reason to stop.

I have to agree with Nogrod that McCaber's asserted suspicions seem too convenient given the current voting situation. McCaber, together with Sally and Shasta, has played very safe and non-confrontational so far. This does not make him guilty, but it's a good hiding place for a baddie. Plus it seems like there's always one quiet bad guy. I'd bet money that at least one of those three is a lover.

Brinniel

11-02-2008, 06:49 PM

What on earth do you think my purpose is? To die?
To distract us from lynching the lovers.

I think Fea is some sort of cobbler.

Gwathagor

11-02-2008, 06:56 PM

This is from Day 2.

Stop that. Really, no matter who you are you don't want me lynched. Cross my heart and promise. The wolves want me alive, the village wants me alive, and when it comes time for my death, you'd better believe that it's best for everybody if it's on my own terms. I'm blowing off my night class and going shopping. Don't kill me while I'm gone.

Well, Brinniel, it looks like you are right. Something else entirely...

I wouldn't guess cobbler, though.

satansaloser2005

11-02-2008, 06:59 PM

This is from Day 2.

Well, Brinniel, it looks like you are right. Something else entirely...

I wouldn't guess cobbler, though.

Ummmm....I have a theory, but if I was right and I told everyone Fea would probably kill me. Blast, it makes so much sense though. *hates being cryptic, but there's really no way around this one*

Gwathagor

11-02-2008, 06:59 PM

Not only was he attacked, but he was protected. It would be funny if he was also dreamed of, provided we have a seer-type role floating around. Not that I'm a proponent of the seer coming forward at this point to answer that question. Not unless you've got some useful information to give.

I'm thinking- he caught a few eyes at least. Maybe the lovers picked him because he was an easy kill: hard to trace somebody everybody's looking at. Much easier to ask questions about why a pair of lovers would want to kill Kitanna. Not that they're questions with answers, but can you see my point? If I was picking a 'wolf' kill, I'd pick somebody who'd cause harmless talk the next day. If I was Ranger, I'd pick the player it seemed most likely to me the 'wolves' would want. If I was Seer, I'd pick somebody I didn't think was going to die in the night. What good's a Seer dream of somebody who isn't alive?

Have Lovers games ever had Hunter characters? Could be amusing. Can you imagine a sort of Cupid figure chasing after bad guys in the night with a bow and arrow? It could be a sort of Romeo and Juliet thing: the Hunter dies and takes someone out with him. You know, Hunter's almost a lover role in itself. It would fit, in terms of theme.

Thoughts? The more I think on it, the more outrageous it seems, but hey... you never know.

Oh, this was the post that made me initially wonder abut Fea. All the role talk caught my attention. It's from, um, Day 3, I think?

satansaloser2005

11-02-2008, 07:02 PM

Oh, this was the post that made me initially wonder abut Fea. All the role talk caught my attention. It's from, um, Day 3, I think?

You and I seem to be on somewhat the same track. That's all I'll say.

Alternatively, if I'm correct, Gwath and Gollum each have a vote, just in case anyone was wondering. I'll go back and check to make sure, but I'm heading back to campus in a bit so I'll be gone for about an hour (Walmart run and getting ready to watch "Butterfly Effect" with a friend, if anyone's interested in my pathetic social life heh)

Gwathagor

11-02-2008, 07:02 PM

Ummmm....I have a theory, but if I was right and I told everyone Fea would probably kill me. Blast, it makes so much sense though. *hates being cryptic, but there's really no way around this one*

CAN she kill you? That didn't sound like it was part of the deal.

Brinniel

11-02-2008, 07:02 PM

Well, Brinniel, it looks like you are right. Something else entirely...

I wouldn't guess cobbler, though.
Well, a cobbler type is only a guess. But this a special game, so I imagine Di has come up with some unique roles.

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-02-2008, 07:04 PM

I imagine Di has come up with some unique roles.

Maybe like the role I outlined for you? Or is that not unique-enough for you?

Gwathagor

11-02-2008, 07:04 PM

Fea is clearly The Prostitute, i.e. the ENTIRE VILLAGE'S lover! If she dies, we all die.

(I am joking.)

satansaloser2005

11-02-2008, 07:04 PM

CAN she kill you? That didn't sound like it was part of the deal.

Sorry, should clarify. I meant that figuratively, as in she would be really hacked off, not as in I would die in the game. Whoops.:rolleyes:

EDIT: x'd with Fea and an EXTREMELY amusing Gwath. I seriously lol'd. Literally. And loudly, while we're at it.

Gwathagor

11-02-2008, 07:05 PM

I see.

Gwathagor

11-02-2008, 07:06 PM

Fea, I'm interested to know who you dreamed and on which Nights.

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-02-2008, 07:06 PM

Fea is clearly The Prostitute, i.e. the ENTIRE VILLAGE'S lover! If she dies, we all die.

(I am joking.)

This is one of the funniest things I've read in my entire life. You've no idea how accurate you are...

satansaloser2005

11-02-2008, 07:07 PM

This is one of the funniest things I've read in my entire life. You've no idea how accurate you are...

Okay, I'm assuming I'm wrong then.

A Seer/Ranger combination was along the lines that I was thinking. So I AM stupid. Go me. Blah.

Really have to leave now.

Brinniel

11-02-2008, 07:09 PM

Vote Count:

Greenie: ++Gollum (Gollum 1)
Eomer: ++Gwath (Gollum 1, Gwath 1)
Nogrod: ++McCaber (Gollum 1, Gwath 1, McCaber 1)

Maybe like the role I outlined for you? Or is that not unique-enough for you?
A role that could possibly kill off the entire village? That sounds rather too unique...

Fea is clearly The Prostitute, i.e. the ENTIRE VILLAGE'S lover! If she dies, we all die.
Haha :p

Gwathagor

11-02-2008, 07:09 PM

This is one of the funniest things I've read in my entire life. You've no idea how accurate you are...

Let this be a testament to the inherent wisdom of comedy.

I need to go call my sister and wish her a happy birthday, but I'll be back.

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-02-2008, 07:11 PM

Fea, I'm interested to know who you dreamed and on which Nights.

Night 1: Rikae
Night 2: Nog
Night 3: Mac

Brinniel

11-02-2008, 07:13 PM

So Fea is saying she's basically a time bomb waiting to go off.

I don't believe her. But it doesn't matter...we shouldn't worry about lynching her anyway. Instead, let's just ignore her and focus on finding the actual lovers.

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-02-2008, 07:16 PM

could possibly kill off the entire village?

Yeah well, it hasn't happened yet.

Also I should mention that I suspect Diamond chose specific players for specific roles.

Gwathagor

11-02-2008, 07:27 PM

Yeah well, it hasn't happened yet.

Also I should mention that I suspect Diamond chose specific players for specific roles.

What makes you think this?

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-02-2008, 07:36 PM

What makes you think this?

Because how many other people do you know who could pull off my role with such success?

satansaloser2005

11-02-2008, 08:08 PM

Because how many other people do you know who could pull off my role with such success?

Just so we're clear....

No one in this game has ego problems at all, right? *checks* Okay, just checking. ;)

Gwathagor

11-02-2008, 08:13 PM

My Reason
Aganzir - seems innocent
Gollum - seems innocent, maybe guilty
Nogrod - seems innocent
Brinniel - seems innocent
Fea - I think she's telling the truth and has some crazy role

My Intuition
Sally - I think that sally is playing it safe/quiet and is probably a lover
Shasta - I think the same thing about shasta
McCaber - the suspicions he expressed earlier did seem suspicious in terms of their timing, but I still feel far less suspicious of him than I do of the previous two

Nothing
Groin - I don't think he's been in once toDay
Eomer - I don't know
Greenie - I don't know

McCaber

11-02-2008, 08:39 PM

Because how many other people do you know who could pull off my role with such success?

It's true. I would have cracked long ago from that sort of pressure.

In other news, Gwath is posting more. A few throwaways but that hilarious comment almost makes me forgive it.

Brinn is suspecting people, but in this situation I feel it's entirely healthy. Someone has to doubt Fea's crazy reveal.

Gwathagor

11-02-2008, 08:59 PM

I went back and read all of McCaber's posts. Based on intuition, I think he is innocent. I could be wrong, but I am not going to vote him toDay unless I have to in order to save myself.

Of the players that I did not initially esteem innocent, this leaves Sally, Eomer, Shasta, Groin, and Greenie.

I am going to say, with Nogrod, that Groin is probably innocent. There is no way he would be so completely uninvolved if he was a bad guy. Some players, but not Groin.

This, then, leaves Sally, Shasta, Eomer, and Greenie. I think Sally and Shasta have been the quietest of the two, and so I will probably vote one of them.

McCaber

11-02-2008, 09:05 PM

I think now is an appropriate time to vote.

++Gollum

Our villains have changed strategies towards killing the loud ones. To fight them it's time to start lynching the quiet ones.

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-02-2008, 09:15 PM

Greenie: ++Gollum (Gollum 1)
Eomer: ++Gwath (Gollum 1, Gwath 1)
Nog: ++McCaber (Gollum 1, Gwath 1, McCaber 1)
McCaber: ++Gollum (Gollum 2, Gwath 1, McCaber 1)

Still to vote:

Groin
Aganzir
Gollum
Brinniel
Sally
Shasta
Gwath
Fea

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-02-2008, 09:35 PM

Night time end of daylight savings stuff eats me. My clock says 10:52. My body says midnight. My body also says I've been under a crazy amount of stress over the past week. So I need to go to bed. So I need to vote.

You know I don't know any baddies definitively. I do know who not to vote for. Ranger-person, I'm not sure if I should ask you to guard me tonight, or Nog. If I knew that the Lovers believed what I said about being taking them out with me...

But I don't.

I'll just have to assume that either Nog or I (or both) will die in the night.

Given that: don't kill Eomer. He's slippery, but I don't think he's evil. Don't vote Nog. He's definitely innocent.

++Groin

Because I hate having people around who may as well not be. I don't like the risk of them. I know... pot and kettle... Who am I to talk of risk?

Oh well.

Tired.

Gollum the Great

11-02-2008, 10:19 PM

I don't think I'll make it back till tomorrow, so I'll vote now.

++McCaber

Gwathagor

11-02-2008, 10:22 PM

++Sally

McCaber

11-02-2008, 10:35 PM

Greenie: ++Gollum (Gollum 1)
Eomer: ++Gwath (Gollum 1, Gwath 1)
Nog: ++McCaber (Gollum 1, Gwath 1, McCaber 1)
McCaber: ++Gollum (Gollum 2, Gwath 1, McCaber 1)
Fea: ++Groin (Gollum 2, Gwath 1, McCaber 1, Groin 1)
Gollum: ++McCaber (Gollum 2, McCaber 2, Gwath 1, Groin 1)
Gwath: ++Sally (Gollum 2, McCaber 2, Gwath 1, Groin 1, Sally 1)

Yet to vote:
Groin
Aganzir
Brinniel
Sally
Shasta

Could I hear some reasoning for the last couple of votes? Gollum's especially. I don't think I was ever on his list of suspects.

I'm also not that big a fan of spreading out the votes this much with so many villains still on the loose.

Aganzir

11-02-2008, 11:02 PM

Grr why do you people have to post so much when I have only little time to read through?

You haven't proposed to me yet. I'm trying to decide whether to be grateful or insulted.
You should be funnier. :p

Aganzir, I have given you all my reasons for believing you (in the past) to be excited. Why are you continuing to question me on that topic?
Because I have seen none. You have "explained" why I seemed jumpy to you, but as far as I'm concerned, you've never elaborated on what makes me seem excited. Remember also
I myself can't see me as too excited. You, of course, have never played with me and don't know how I am, and therefore you should have no way of knowing if I'm excited or not.

I'd doubt you, but I don't think you can make something like that up.
She very well could.

I imagine that a baddie would have continued to pursue the case even after Gollum's response, as there seemed to be a substantial degree of suspicion developing against Gollum. If what she wanted was to lynch an innocent, she was doing a pretty good job and would have had no reason to stop.
Arrrr I did not stop suspecting Gollum! His response made me feel better about him ie I am not all that certain about him anymore. He's still the best option I have. And if I was a baddie I wouldn't want to lynch an innocent but another lover pair.

We shouldn't take Nog's innocence for granted before Fea has died and been proven either honest or lying. How likely it is for Nog to survive much longer, I don't know, though.
I wouldn't put it past a lover-Fea and Eomer to make such a show.

Aganzir

11-02-2008, 11:15 PM

Okay I should be going in one minute if I want to be at school on time.

++Gollum

Let's see if I'm still alive tomorrow. :cool:

Brinniel

11-02-2008, 11:30 PM

The vote count (again):

Greenie: ++Gollum (Gollum 1)
Eomer: ++Gwath (Gollum 1, Gwath 1)
Nog: ++McCaber (Gollum 1, Gwath 1, McCaber 1)
McCaber: ++Gollum (Gollum 2, Gwath 1, McCaber 1)
Fea: ++Groin (Gollum 2, Gwath 1, McCaber 1, Groin 1)
Gollum: ++McCaber (Gollum 2, McCaber 2, Gwath 1, Groin 1)
Gwath: ++Sally (Gollum 2, McCaber 2, Gwath 1, Groin 1, Sally 1)
Aganzir: ++Gollum (Gollum 3, McCaber 2, Gwath 1, Groin 1, Sally 1)

Hasn't voted: Brinn, Sally, Shasta, Groin (who probably won't vote)

McCaber

11-02-2008, 11:37 PM

And we enter the final hour.

satansaloser2005

11-02-2008, 11:39 PM

Cabbie, Gwath, or Gollum? Cabbie, Gwath, or Gollum?

Gollum's acting pretty standard for a newbie. I know I did a lot of the same things my first couple games (in which I was innocent) so I'm willing to at least give him another Day to get things straightened out. For instance, toDay he at least tried to explain himself. Then again, I'm wary of people who spend all their posting space defending themselves and not concentrating on others.

Gwath has been more vocal toDay and since he's been more helpful toDay than the last few -that and his hilarious posts- I'm inclined to keep him around for a while. If nothing else, he'll keep the last few of us around amused. (Not saying that if I suspect him more I'll vote him, but unless he suddenly jumps to the top of the voting list I'm not likely to vote him)

That leaves Cabbie. I can't seem to get a read on him, and that worries me. So between the three of them, I'm up for killing him the most. Subject to change, of course, after I give everything another readthrough, but that's where I stand right now.

EDIT: x'd with Cabbie, and bolding, precious

satansaloser2005

11-02-2008, 11:43 PM

Going with my gut and voting now, just in case I randomly fall asleep or something.

++Cabbie

Brinniel

11-02-2008, 11:58 PM

++McCaber

While I'm glad to see he's made an effort to post more, he still remains at the bottom end of the post count. And what bothers me about that is how he continues to suspect and go after his fellow quiet players. Even more suspicious is that what McCaber has said pretty much goes with the flow with what everyone else has said. He plays too safely.

I'm also suspicious of Sally who's been playing fairly safe thus far, and I'm still unsure about Gollum.

McCaber

11-02-2008, 11:59 PM

And that's just about it for me. I suppose anything else than grim fatalism would ruin the mood.

McCaber

11-03-2008, 12:17 AM

Doomed because I missed the first day and have a social life around Halloween. Ah well.

satansaloser2005

11-03-2008, 12:20 AM

Doomed because I missed the first day and have a social life around Halloween. Ah well.

*hugs* Don't worry, the same fate will probably befall me as well.

Since you're dead (I assume, best wait to be sure I suppose) you wouldn't want to give us any last minute advice or tell us what you might know, would you? Good of the village and all that. :)

McCaber

11-03-2008, 12:23 AM

Sorry, the whole "grim fatalism" gets in the way. And it fits the theme. Oh, to die before ever knowing love!

*goes off and emos in a corner*

satansaloser2005

11-03-2008, 12:26 AM

Sorry, the whole "grim fatalism" gets in the way. And it fits the theme. Oh, to die before ever knowing love!

*goes off and emos in a corner*

I bloody love you. Can you just kind of haunt the game for a while? ;)

McCaber

11-03-2008, 12:27 AM

I've got ten minutes. How much haunting do you want?

satansaloser2005

11-03-2008, 12:27 AM

I've got ten minutes. How much haunting do you want?

As much as you can provide, my friend. I can use a good giggle. Heh. ;)

McCaber

11-03-2008, 12:28 AM

How about the link in my sig?

(Reprinted here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELpmmeT69cE) for posterity)

satansaloser2005

11-03-2008, 12:30 AM

How about the link in my sig?

(Reprinted here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELpmmeT69cE) for posterity)

Erm....k....awkward....definitely in the amusement category though. ;)

McCaber

11-03-2008, 12:32 AM

Brinniel

11-03-2008, 12:34 AM

Since you're dead (I assume, best wait to be sure I suppose) you wouldn't want to give us any last minute advice or tell us what you might know, would you? Good of the village and all that.
Why do you want or even think he would give us advice? Do you now think he's innocent?

McCaber

11-03-2008, 12:35 AM

And I'm officially having too much fun narrating my impending doom.

Ah well.

Brinniel

11-03-2008, 12:35 AM

McCaber

11-03-2008, 12:36 AM

Not a chance.

satansaloser2005

11-03-2008, 12:36 AM

You don't think that fits? If that doesn't do it for you, you could read some of the longer lyric poems of doomed lovers or someone in love who never got the chance to do anything. You know, Romeo and Juliet, Tristan and Isolde, Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog. Anything of that genre could work.

Heh. Don't get me wrong, it fits perfectly. And this post made me die of giggles. *has GOT to have some Dr. Horrible time now*

Ah, alas your moment is drawing nigh. :(

McCaber

11-03-2008, 12:37 AM

*dies*

Diamond18

11-03-2008, 12:37 AM

The Lonely Hearts dithered a bit over who to lynch, a sure change from their overwhelming confidence the day before. But at the end, Brinn cast the deciding vote to doom McCaber. She took up a poisoned lance and pierced him with it.

As he lay dying, Greenie gave a yelp and rushed to his side, falling to her knees. “Tristan, my love!” she cried. “Not again!”

“Alas, my Isolde,” he responded faintly, “it was not meant to be.” And as he drew his final shuddering breath, Greenie fell upon him and also gasped her last. The Lovers lay together, silent and dead (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/Tristan-Egusquiza-L.jpg).

Then a strange thing happened. Their spirits rose from their bodies, and two ghostly figures hovered there. But they looked nothing like the McCaber and Greenie everyone knew; rather like a lord and lady (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/John_Duncan_Tristan_and_Isolde_400.jpg) of old. They reached out to each other, but a hand from the heavens came down and pushed them apart. The voice of Venus said, “You have failed. You will never be together again.”

The spirits faded, falling away from each other into the darkness of eternal loneliness.

It is Night.

The Living Lonely Hearts Club:

Groin
Aganzir
Gollum
Nogrod
Brinniel
Sally
Shasta
Gwath
Fea
Eomer

Hearts Which Have Stopped Beating:

Diamond (Lonely Heart)
Lommy (Lonely Heart)
Legate (Lonely Heart)
Lalaith (Lonely Heart)
Eönwë (Lonely Heart)
Kitanna (Lonely Heart)
Rikae (Lonely Heart)
Macalaure (Lonely Heart)
McCaber (Tristan)
Greenie (Isolde)

semi-random picture! (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/tristan-and-isolde-1.jpg)

satansaloser2005

11-03-2008, 12:38 AM

*dies*

No! No! Regenerate! ;)

On the more serious side, nice playing with you buddy. If you're not evil, my apologies. If you are....well, it's a family board. :p (Kidding, sweetie, kidding)

EDIT: x'd with our moddess, but I'm sure it's not fair to offer commentary. In that case, tomorrow. :)

Diamond18

11-04-2008, 12:21 AM

Shastanis Althreduin

11-04-2008, 12:28 AM

Fea's not dead; if she wasn't lying, she's cleared another ordo. Nogrod is still alive; his innocence really depends on Fea.

Right now, I'm feeling quite bad about Eomer, but have nothing concrete. I'll go back and look at him.

And I voted McCaber the day before yesterday because I had a major bad feeling about one of his posts; while I'm looking at Eomer, I'll see if I can't find it.

Red Zone:
Eomer

Orange Zone:
Groin
Gollum
Gwath - I keep forgetting he's playing!

Yellow Zone:
Sally

Green Zone:
Brinniel
Fea
Nogrod

satansaloser2005

11-04-2008, 12:32 AM

The next morning only one from among the Lonely Hearts was missing. Aganzir, whose life had been spared the night before, was left to her fate and met it grimly in the night. Her body was found, not in her bed, but cut into several pieces and scattered about her room, with her head hanging over the mantelpiece. Yes. It was gruesome.

Rawr. That's attractive. ;)

Alternatively, did anyone else find Brinn's post yesterDay a tad....well, furry? The one at the end of the Day, right after Cabbie and I are talking about his 'last words' of wisdom and he tells me to read some tragic poetry or whatever. He offers Romeo/Juliet and Tristan/Isolde (along with the mega-awesome Dr. Horrible) as good choices, and then Brinn asks him if he's confessing. I mean, it's not so much that she caught on to his romance insinuation, but that he mentioned his specific lover pairing and Brinn did kind of a double take (or at least in my head she went "bwah?!?!" and then posted)

Either way, between that little bit of awkward and the whole "Fea can't possibly be the seer" thing I'm not finding her nearly as innocent as I did before. What do you all think?

Anyway, I'm off to bed. Di, I love you for calling the Day slightly early. Not only am I still alive, but I'm also able to go to bed a bit earlier than I expected. :)

My busy-ness is (at least for the most part) over, so I should be posting more as well, just so you all know. Sorry, the last several days were just murder, no pun intended. Good night all!

~~Sally~~

EDIT: x'd with Shasta

EDIT #2: the italicized bit, because I have no business ;)

Shastanis Althreduin

11-04-2008, 12:37 AM

Alternatively, did anyone else find Brinn's post yesterDay a tad....well, furry? The one at the end of the Day, right after Cabbie and I are talking about his 'last words' of wisdom and he tells me to read some tragic poetry or whatever. He offers Romeo/Juliet and Tristan/Isolde (along with the mega-awesome Dr. Horrible) as good choices, and then Brinn asks him if he's confessing. I mean, it's not so much that she caught on to his romance insinuation, but that he mentioned his specific lover pairing and Brinn did kind of a double take (or at least in my head she went "bwah?!?!" and then posted)

That's a good thought. Of course, the word "bwah?!?!" makes it all the more plausible because now it's in my head too. :p

I don't know, I seem to always have a really hard time seeing Brinn as anything other than innocent. I think I'll go back and look at her today too.

Shastanis Althreduin

11-04-2008, 12:41 AM

Also, just a thought: There might be something to that theory mentioned earlier, that the lovers are different-gender pairings. I know same-sex pairs were allowed in the last game, but since McCaber mentioned Tristan and Isolde, and Romeo and Juliet (and then died as Tristan), I wonder if there could be a possible Eomer/Brinniel pair.

It's one am and I'm throwing out a stream of consciousness, so ask if nothing I say is making sense.

satansaloser2005

11-04-2008, 12:44 AM

Wait...is that a confession?

Also, just a thought: There might be something to that theory mentioned earlier, that the lovers are different-gender pairings. I know same-sex pairs were allowed in the last game, but since McCaber mentioned Tristan and Isolde, and Romeo and Juliet (and then died as Tristan), I wonder if there could be a possible Eomer/Brinniel pair.

It's one am and I'm throwing out a stream of consciousness, so ask if nothing I say is making sense.

Oooo. Now there's an idea. I'll have to sleep on it. Literally, in fact, but still. Good eye; I wonder if you're onto something.

On the plus side, there seems to be only one more pair for sure now. Or so I would think? I don't know; if that doesn't seem right to anyone convince me otherwise, but I'm pretty sure we're down to just one lover pair.

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 12:50 AM

Heh, I think Aganzir would be very amused with the manner of her death. It fits her twisted personality. :p

Shasta, considering your accuracy with McCaber, that siggie of yours could not be more applicable right now. Are you sure you're not psychic?

Btw, I still don't think Fea is on our side.

Shastanis Althreduin

11-04-2008, 12:53 AM

Yes, yes! Fear my magic 8-ball!

I mean uh...

:rolleyes:

satansaloser2005

11-04-2008, 12:59 AM

Btw, I still don't think Fea is on our side.

Depends whose side you're on, love.

Oh, the ever-loveable Shasta. ;)

Shastanis Althreduin

11-04-2008, 01:02 AM

satansaloser2005

11-04-2008, 01:09 AM

It's kind of amusing that the Americans dominate early morning, the Europeans get midday, and then the Americans again get the end of the day. :D

Another possible pair that just came to mind is Gwath/Brinniel. One quiet and one loud person per pair makes a sick twisted kind of sense; Brinn is quite talkative, and I've forgotten that Gwath is playing three times now. If I have time after analyzing Eomer and Brinn, I'll do him.

Does it make me a terrible person that I didn't remember Gwath was playing until his....erm....interesting comment yesterDay? Heh :p

I don't know about a Gwath/Brinn pairing though. I'll have to give it some thought, but it seems a bit stretched. You never know though....Di does have a twisted streak. ;)

Alternatively, there's only three females left; I just noticed that. Me, Brinn, and Fea. Wow.

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 01:10 AM

Oh, and I should comment that once again the lovers continue to kill the loud players.

Some thoughts:

Suspicious:

Sally: One of my top suspects right now. She's playing way too safely.

Eomer: Has moved up on my suspicion list. He's been gliding through this game so smoothly thus far and that worries me. I definitely need to take a better look at his posts when I have time.

Unsure:

Gollum: If I had to make a guess right now, I'd say he's innocent. But I'm not at all confident with that guess.

Innocentish:

Groin: His lack in activity makes me think he's more likely innocent than not. But I worry I could be wrong. If he is a lover, that's just an unfair way of playing.

Nogrod: I still think he's innocent. Not because Fea said so, but because of his behaviour.

Shasta: Has made good judgement so far. I don't see any reasons to suspect him and think he's more likely innocent.

Gwath: I had trouble finding much to say about him earlier in the game, but he was a lot more active yesterDay and the posts he made gave off an innocentish vibe.

Belongs in her own category ;) :

Fea: I'm quite positive she's not innocent. But I'm doubtful she's a lover. Maybe a cobbler seer? That role's existed before. I don't know. Though part of me worries that she is a lover and her partner's Groin...I don't know how likely that is, but if anyone can pull it off, it's her.

satansaloser2005

11-04-2008, 01:12 AM

Why do you want or even think he would give us advice? Do you now think he's innocent?

Just noticed this. No, m'dear Brinn, I didn't magically think he was innocent, I was just hoping he'd maybe say something and slip up somehow, maybe give us a clue to another lover by mistake (which seems more and more plausible now). That and I was bored.

Okay. Really off to bed now.

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 01:15 AM

maybe give us a clue to another lover by mistake
How could he give us a clue to another lover when even he didn't know who they are for sure? And I don't know if he'd really care anyway, considering they are on opposite teams.

Shastanis Althreduin

11-04-2008, 01:46 AM

On Eomer:

#98. Thinks it's dangerous to metagame too much, and that there are probably some active baddies. Votes Rikae.

#233. Evidences puzzlement at the number of kills. Thinks it might be wise to pick someone who wasn't involved with Lalaith and killing them. Defends his vote for Rikae as "stirring the pot".

#266. Concerned with the paranoia of the village. Extolls the virtue of basing speculation on fact. Thinks Kitanna is suspicious for being the nth person to think that Legate was killed because it was thought that he was a lover.

#290. Doesn't see any point in analyzing the deaths. Goes heavily into metagame.

#297. Lists reactions to the deaths of Legate and Lalaith. Really goes after Kitanna because of her reaction.

#302. More attacking Kitanna.

#303. N/A.

#305. Actually votes Kitanna.

#390. Defends quiet players. Doesn't think Mac's suspicions are enough to bother defending against.

#400. Goes a little overboard on wondering why Nogrod was attacked. Apparently, Eomer thinks Nogrod is dead, or at least that's the tone of this post. Tries to build suspicion on Mac because of one of Nogrod's post, and Mac and Greenie for having not been voted.

#405. Thinks the bandwagon on Gollum is dangerous. Still trying to get Mac or Greenie lynched.

#408. Says the Kitanna-kill was sensible. Thinks the attack on Nogrod wasn't a bluff? I don't understand what he's saying here, but it's the first part I'm most concerned with.

#411. Thinks a vote for Mac would be considered spite. Votes Greenie. Still thinks feelings are overrated.

#491. Thinks it was obvious that Mac was in trouble, given Rikae's hints and Nogrod's willingness to vote him. Can't figure out what Rikae meant. Thought Rikae really looked suspicious, so find the bandwagon on her unsuspicious.

#496. Thinks that Rikae's insistence that Agan was innocent is confusing. Throws out a theory that Rikae was the Seer's lover... then turns around and shoots it down himself.

#513. Playerlist. Ponders starting to lynch females, because he's suspicious of Greenie and Brinniel for reasons he can't articulate. Ponders same-sex couples.

#514. N/A.

#522. Thinks the same as Nogrod does about Brinniel; that she's suspicious. However, is very wary of Nogrod and Aganzir; doesn't want to let them off just because they were saved by the Ranger.

#524. Explains to Nogrod his reaction to Rikae's vote for Gollum and why he thought it was going to become a bandwagon.

#527. Votes Gwath as a throwaway vote. No real explanation.

------------------------------------------------------------

The underlined posts are the ones that give me the most bad feeling. I really think I see some kind of Eomer/Brinniel connection, I don't like the way Eomer was so gung-ho about lynching Kitanna and then became extremely defensive/matter-of-fact about her death and subsequent clearance, and I don't like how he was trying to pour suspicion on Mac earlier. His suspicion of Greenie does nothing to clear him since it's clear they weren't teammates.

I'll post more tomorrow, but it's time for bed for me. Good night!

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-04-2008, 06:47 AM

Sally's innocent.

Also, I lied about dreaming about Rikae because I wanted to keep Eomer alive. He's the Guardian.

Fea: I'm quite positive she's not innocent. But I'm doubtful she's a lover. Maybe a cobbler seer? That role's existed before. I don't know. Though part of me worries that she is a lover and her partner's Groin...I don't know how likely that is, but if anyone can pull it off, it's her.

Really, Brinn? I know you feel the need to play the token skeptic, but the more you doubt me the more I believe you are a danger to the village. I can't condemn you because I haven't dreamed of you, not wishing to flirt with death more than necessary. But that doesn't mean I can't list you as my top suspect for the Day.

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 07:46 AM

the more you doubt me the more I believe you are a danger to the village.
Or rather, the more I doubt you the more you believe I'm a danger to you. Because the more you post, the more confident I am that you're evil.

Really, I think we all know how deceptful Fea can be, but I give her props for trying. But there is no reason why anyone should trust her (well, except perhaps the lovers if she isn't one herself :rolleyes: ).

satansaloser2005

11-04-2008, 08:49 AM

How could he give us a clue to another lover when even he didn't know who they are for sure? And I don't know if he'd really care anyway, considering they are on opposite teams.

Always worth a try, don't you know? Besides, like I said, I was bored. Is it really that big of a deal? Not to mean this in a rude way, but it seems you're making a bigger thing out of that than it needs to be.

Sally's innocent.

Also, I lied about dreaming about Rikae because I wanted to keep Eomer alive. He's the Guardian.

Fea, must you tell the world? Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the attention and all, but....well, the ranger just needs to be my friend, I suppose.

Alternatively, to the last bit. Bwah?!?!?

satansaloser2005

11-04-2008, 08:53 AM

My list, let me show it to you. (Figured I'd give you all another nugget of Sally brain before I went off to class)

Red zone:
Brinn

Orange zone:
Eomer
Gwath

Yellow zone:
Gollum
Shasta (just to be on the safe side)

Green zone/no zone:
Groin (bwah? he's playing!?!?)
Nogrod
Fea

Gwathagor

11-04-2008, 09:42 AM

Also, I lied about dreaming about Rikae because I wanted to keep Eomer alive. He's the Guardian.

What's the Guardian?

Gollum the Great

11-04-2008, 10:40 AM

Good morning/afternoon/evening/night depending on where you may be, fellow players. I am finally here. Now to make this post something of note...

Not sure:

Shasta
Gwath
Groin
Sally

Really not sure:

Nogrod
Fea
Eomer
Brinn.

In short, I don't know what to say about just about anybody.

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-04-2008, 10:53 AM

Guardian is a fancy name for Ranger. You know, like 'guards people.'

Fea, must you tell the world? Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the attention and all, but....

Yes, I must tell the world- if people don't heed my warning, I'm likely to die any time. Since I'm already revealed as Seer, there's no sense in keeping my dreams to myself any more.

well, the ranger just needs to be my friend, I suppose.

Of course the ranger is your friend. We're on the same side, after all.

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 10:58 AM

What's the Guardian?
I think that's the hunter. Which makes her claim even more ridiculous since the whole point of the hunter is to get killed so that they can take a wolf (or in this case, lovers) down with them. Revealing the role defeats its whole purpose. Which is why I think she's lying. Anyway, I doubt there's even a hunter...with two lovers dying in one blow, I don't think Di would see it necessary to put that role in. And along with role that Fea claims to have? If Di wanted a slaughterhouse, she would've put more lovers in the game.

Eomer's reaction to all this may help tell us whether he's a baddie or not (key word: baddie...not necessarily lover).

In short, I don't know what to say about just about anybody.
If you really have no clue, I recommend reviewing posts from previous Days in more depth. You've been pretty vague so far and it'd be more helpful for us to hear some stronger opinions than "I don't know."

EDIT: X-ed with Fea...okay, apparently I was wrong. But I swear in Volo's game the Guardian was the hunter.

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 11:06 AM

Guardian is a fancy name for Ranger. You know, like 'guards people.'

Btw, you probably shouldn't have answered that.

Now I really look forward to hearing Eomer's reaction.

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-04-2008, 11:13 AM

Btw, you probably shouldn't have answered that.

Why?

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 11:15 AM

Also, I can see that Groin is online this very minute...he forgot to turn invisible. What does that tell us? My guess is that he basically quit the game as an ordo without getting modfired...but if he does turn out to be lover and is not participating on purpose, I'm going to be very bitter. But I think he's a better sport than that, and I hope I'm right.

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 11:32 AM

Gollum the Great

11-04-2008, 11:35 AM

If you really have no clue, I recommend reviewing posts from previous Days in more depth. You've been pretty vague so far and it'd be more helpful for us to hear some stronger opinions than "I don't know."

If you insist I'll check back up once more, but half the roles in the village, er, hotel, depend on whether Fea is really the seer.

satansaloser2005

11-04-2008, 11:36 AM

This is getting interesting!

And just for starters I will have to say I share Brinn's uneasiness with Fea's revelation of her role which kind of makes her immune to any kind of attack whatsoever (from the rival baddies and from us innocents).

I'll have to think of it as it seems there are arguments to be made on behalf of her revalment being true and against it. But as a gut-reaction I'd say she should be lynched by one volunteering innocent (no one else casts a vote) on one Day before it's too late... :p

But I'll look back to it. As well to a few other things...

Heh. Are you volunteering, dear? ;)

Brinn's right; Groin's still online, yet he hasn't posted. Groin, have you left the game? Maybe he's cathing up on posts???? If nothing else, make sure to turn invisible. Oh, and post!

Alternatively, to Gollum. If you don't have a pretty concrete suspicion list go back over the posts and at least concentrate on one person. That way we at least get something from you other than "I don't know" and "I agree with so-and-so". yes, I know, I shouldn't talk, as I've been pretty lazy this game, but the more people who help the better. In short, Gollum, just go through and give us gut reactions to what you see, if nothing else.

Off to type some things up before work. Be here for about another 45 minutes if I'm needed.

EDIT: x'd with Gollum. And bolding, which I really suck at lately.

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 12:23 PM

Heh. Are you volunteering, dear?I even might be.

But I'm going to look at that revealment first.

I'm a seer who's only allowed to dream of innocents. If I dream of a Lover, I die. If a Lover pair kills me, they and I all die. If the village kills me, everybody who voted for me is retributionally slaughtered.

Okay. It's possible Di might have thought of that kind of a special-indeed role and it would suit Fea pretty nicely if she was handpicked into the role.

Gwath then kindly provided us with this from Day2 (I'm too lazy to go back there and find it myself): Stop that. Really, no matter who you are you don't want me lynched. Cross my heart and promise. The wolves want me alive, the village wants me alive, and when it comes time for my death, you'd better believe that it's best for everybody if it's on my own terms.So it looks like she's hinting towards her role already there.

Also she said I'm innocent which is true indeed.

So all fine and dandy?

Well not all.

First of all I'm a bit suspicious about there being such a role that basically makes the player immune to any attacks if she's believed. And in a village where there is no clear knowledge about what kind of roles there are a great baddie might come up with a scheme like this. And that baddie would need to be also both playful and daring - which both apply to Fea just too well (also the "hinting" before revelation).

Secondly the timing of the revelation really raises my eyebrows. No one was actually suspecting Fea at the moment. So why the hurry to do that? She could have revealed a bit later if it would have looked like she was garnering some serious suspicion (and there was that mentioning of the role in her post in Day2 which should have convinced those wishing to lynch her anyway not to do it right away).

And sure it would have been a great way to go not telling the lovers about her capacities and taking both of them with her if they tried her during the Night? If she was a seer she could have just left a post saying it clearly enough for those reading her posts afterwards where she tells I'm innocent ie. not attention-grabbinlgy but using words which don't jump into one's eye when just looking through but reveal the intent if one reads them with knowledge of her role afterwards.

If she is a lover she would be afraid of the other (one of) lover-pair coming after her as the size of the village gets smaller. That would be a good reason for the timing. If we all believed her, the possible remaining lovers would leave her being afraid of trying her and we would not dare lynch her either. Perfect.
(And btw. all the lovers were alive when she revealed: McCaber and Greenie only got dead after that!)

I was already making pretty wild theories on this before I remembered Eomer has something to say in this. I'm waiting for him to appear before going with this any further...

EDIT: changed Gwath into McCaber, thank's to Sally...

satansaloser2005

11-04-2008, 12:27 PM

If she is a lover she would be afraid of the other (one of) lover-pair coming after her as the size of the village gets smaller. That would be a good reason for the timing. If we all believed her, the possible remaining lovers would leave her being afraid of trying her and we would not dare lynch her either. Perfect.
(And btw. all the lovers were alive when she revealed: Gwath and Greenie only got dead after that!)

I was already making pretty wild theories on this before I remembered Eomer has something to say in this. I'm waiting for him to appear before going with this any further...

You mean Cabbie?

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 12:34 PM

And I voted McCaber the day before yesterday because I had a major bad feeling about one of his posts; while I'm looking at Eomer, I'll see if I can't find it.Now this was the first post of toDay.

How come you were so keen to point out that you voted for a baddie the Day before? And what would it help if we knew afterwards which were your reasons for doing that now that both McCaber and his mistress Greenie are dead and gone and there's no information to be gained if they did not know the other pairs? Or were you just a bit too hastily trying to make yourself look good as you had "got it right as well"? Or did you know that?

There is something that is now freaking me, some of my own conspiracy-theories are taking over little by little in this nuthouse village... :rolleyes:

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 12:35 PM

You mean Cabbie?Ah, sorry... I'm going to change that... Thank's for notifying... :o

Shastanis Althreduin

11-04-2008, 12:49 PM

Now this was the first post of toDay.

How come you were so keen to point out that you voted for a baddie the Day before? And what would it help if we knew afterwards which were your reasons for doing that now that both McCaber and his mistress Greenie are dead and gone and there's no information to be gained if they did not know the other pairs? Or were you just a bit too hastily trying to make yourself look good as you had "got it right as well"? Or did you know that?

There is something that is now freaking me, some of my own conspiracy-theories are taking over little by little in this nuthouse village... :rolleyes:

Uh, no, because I recalled that I hadn't been able to explain that vote, and someone had mentioned it earlier. :rolleyes:

Eomer of the Rohirrim

11-04-2008, 01:01 PM

This is all a bit confusing and I have little faith that we're going to get to the bottom of things very soon.

Now, I will not rule out the possibility that Fea is lying. That she is a black-hearted scoundrel seeking naught but mischief and the pain of others should be clear to most Barrow-Downers. But I won't let the natural "Fea is screwing with us" reaction kick in without a thought.

She apparently knows my secret. All well and good. I'm not sure, though, whether she knows this more interesting piece of information: I didn't protect Nogrod.

So, what to make of this? There could be another Ranger in town, but I immediately think this unlikely. Two Rangers in a regular game would be an intriguing balance for more powerful villains; but in this game? Where it seems the Lovers are really battling the odds? I have to doubt it.

Which makes me think that Diamond has something really, really bizarre going on. Unfortunately for us players, we can hardly do anything logical about it. Is it something to do with Fea's weird role? Whether she's directly involved (if she's truthful) or whether it's the work of some powerful counter of Fea.

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 01:03 PM

Uh, no, because I recalled that I hadn't been able to explain that vote, and someone had mentioned it earlier. :rolleyes:Isn't it still kind of overdoing it as you didn't vote yesterDay and no one has kind of toDay asked about that vote from the Day before or suspected you about it (as your post was the first one toDay)? Not that you explained it toDay either... and who cares about that anymore. :p

So eager to point to your "good judgement"? And why? Vanity or more evil intentions?

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-04-2008, 01:09 PM

I'm not sure, though, whether she knows this more interesting piece of information: I didn't protect Nogrod.

I don't understand. Who or what protected Nogrod? I know he's an ordo, so he can't have done anything to protect himself. If you didn't protect him, how did he survive the Lovers?

Gwathagor

11-04-2008, 01:17 PM

Eomer: who have you protected and which Nights?

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-04-2008, 01:23 PM

Eomer: who have you protected and which Nights?

Eomer: Please refrain from telling who you protected last night, as I for one do not want the remaining Lover pair to know who cannot be protected this night.

Gwathagor

11-04-2008, 01:24 PM

Yes. That is a legitimate point. Sorry.

Gwathagor

11-04-2008, 01:26 PM

She apparently knows my secret. All well and good. I'm not sure, though, whether she knows this more interesting piece of information: I didn't protect Nogrod.

So, what to make of this? There could be another Ranger in town, but I immediately think this unlikely. Two Rangers in a regular game would be an intriguing balance for more powerful villains; but in this game? Where it seems the Lovers are really battling the odds? I have to doubt it.

I would think that if there were indeed two Rangers, we would have seen some evidence of it in the narration, so I have to doubt it too.

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-04-2008, 01:34 PM

I would think that if there were indeed two Rangers, we would have seen some evidence of it in the narration, so I have to doubt it too.

I wish I had time to wrap my head around this, but I'm in class for the next six hours. Oh how I love Tuesdays... :rolleyes:

But then- we might not have seen evidence in the narration because unless the two Rangers' choices conflicted or something, would Di mention it? Because thus far she's only mentioned people who have been directly involved, right?

But it doesn't make sense to have two rangers. Except it doesn't make sense not to, if Eomer didn't protect Nogrod.

I'm having trouble coming up with logical scenarios that would explain any of this. I have to go for now...

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 01:37 PM

I just looked at an US election special from BBC and there was this old guy saying "Mac is back". Let's hear when he comes around as we'd surely do with his help now... :)

I didn't protect Nogrod.After I heard from Fea you'd be a ranger I kind of counted on that you'd be one of those ready to take that risk. If you're not misleading us then I'm confident with that and give you my thanks. Well done!

But now we are in the stages of the game our being in the darkness starts to be a real burden.

I'll try to open up a few of the possibilities - which there sure is almost a limitless number - in a moment.

PS. If Eomer is indeed the ranger he bluffed the baddies by not protecting me last Night... Yes, I agree with Fea at this point that he should not tell it out aloud... ADD... who he protected last Night

Gwathagor

11-04-2008, 01:45 PM

This is getting interesting!

And just for starters I will have to say I share Brinn's uneasiness with Fea's revelation of her role which kind of makes her immune to any kind of attack whatsoever (from the rival baddies and from us innocents).

As am I. But I am more uneasy with her exposure of Eomer's supposed role. Why should she do something like that? Eomer was not yet in any grave danger, and even if he was, it should be his choice to reveal his or not. With his alleged role revealed, the lovers are bound to kill him toNight. If Fea is telling the truth about Eomer, then not only is she taking his fate into her own hands, but she is endangering the safety of the village, as the Ranger is integral to our survival. I am extremely uncomfortable with this situation as it forces us, without evidence, to assume that Fea has our best interests in mind, and I have no reason to believe this. I am certainly not going to take her word for it.

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 01:45 PM

But it doesn't make sense to have two rangers. Except it doesn't make sense not to, if Eomer didn't protect Nogrod.Interesting. You Fea if any should be familiar with this most elementary ranger-gamble: whether to protect a known innocent in a tight place when the baddies think he will be protected or take the risk and not do it so that the baddies go for somewhere else and s/he could then protect the known innocent the next Night for real buying her/him one more Day around.

It kind of looks like you knew the baddies were after me last Night in any case... Was it because you were?

But who the heck then saved me and why was in to mentioned like the earlier "saves" were mentioned? Maybe you Fea just really aren't able to pick the pieces together right now as you said? :)

Gah, this is getting twisted indeed....

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 01:48 PM

Exactly my thoughts Gwath!

That really bothers me as well, the revelation of Eomer's role I mean... and the timing of Fea's own revelation...

Gwathagor

11-04-2008, 02:05 PM

I'll lay my cards on the table.

I think that Fea has lied about Eomer, and that Eomer is playing along. I also think that he wisely claimed not to have protected you, Nogrod, in order that he not contradict the real Ranger. And, suddenly, the idea of two Rangers is introduced and the real Ranger is no longer able to prove Eomer's guilt by a counter-reveal. This is how I see the situation, and it's diabolical.

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 02:07 PM

Just a quick thought that came to my mind while having a cigarette on my balcony.

It would surely be unethical to PM Groin and ask him to give the one vote for Fea toDay, or perhaps better toMorrow, while we all others withdrew from voting... But if he happens to come online and post something that might be suggested. :rolleyes:

Okay. Needs to think...

But the first one right here.

If Fea and Eomer are the last lovers there are they have played themselves into a nice position as not too many of us might be ready to challenge them. The problem remains who rescued myself and Agan during those two Nights then? Somehow I'm not too keen on the idea of two rangers, it looks like an out-of-place -ruling in a game with this general mood.

But if there is someone who is a ranger, s/he should carefully think when to come forwards. Even if I'm not suggesting you come from the closet immediately or toDay anyway, s/he should not leave it too late if those two are not having our best interests in mind. But that's her/his choice.

The next thing that irks me is that if Eomer actually is the ranger why did Fea reveal him? That was totally unnecessary - as well as Fea's own revealment. Which kind of tells me there is something fishy in there. Why did Fea feel it okay to sacrifice the ranger the next Night if she is indeed a goodie? How deep in trouble we are if that is a reasonable way of action performed by the seer?

Could the small numbers of lover-pairs (only two in this big a village) be compensated with a scenario where there is no seer but the lovers get one dream as well as a kill by Night? If the lovers got through the first few Days, then that added with the general uncertitude about the roles might prove to be a great weapon.

My brains are boiling... how I love this! :D

Eomer of the Rohirrim

11-04-2008, 02:24 PM

While I don't immediately see the advantage in Fea revealing my role (it could be nothing more than gaining a known innocent when one of us dies... or whatever weird scenario plays out when she dies) neither do I see an advantage in evil-Fea's doing what she did.

Gwath, someone always spells out the opposing theory when there's a gifted reveal. I have little to say other than your theory is not true, but very plausible to the unknowing villager.

Maybe Fea is telling us half a truth? The whole thing about both sides being at a disadvantage to kill her seems a bit odd, and too dominating a role.

Another thought: I think the other Ranger might be on the Lovers' side, to protect the different Lover pairs from each other, and focus their attacks on the ordos. Now, this gift might be a bit difficult to use in a rational way, but what if he/she was connected in some way to a Seer? It seems far-fetched though, because we are swiftly running out of players for the roles; and how likely is it that we just killed a bunch of ordos and left the gifteds til the end?

Yeah, this is baffling.

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 02:31 PM

Glad to hear Eomer's response. Now I know he is also not on the village's side. He cannot be the ranger and I know this for a fact.

Sorry I can't explain this now...I've gotta run to class. But DO NOT trust Eomer and Fea. I'll be back in about three hours to say more.

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 02:35 PM

No fancy theories, just feelings on people...

Groin
So much out of this game I will not vote him and will be totally annoyed with him is he a baddie (was online today but didn't bother checking in). He's more sporty than that so I just don't believe he's a baddie. Really.

Brinniel
Gwath
All they can be blamed of is talking sense (well, not Gwath in the beginning... :)). It is no mark of innocence as such but makes me feel better to have them around.

Gollum
I have no idea. Sometimes he looks very suspicious but on others just totally out of touch. If we knew we could afford checking him out I might suggest it. But now I'm not sure.

Sally
Shasta
The two I kind of suspect right now for different reasons I've discussed already some of. I'll try to be more eloquent about that later as some rely on my view of Fea as well...

Fea
Eomer
Either they are our gifteds or then they are lovers... or then there are some really interesting roles and Fea is bad and Eomer is good... or then something else... :confused:

Huh.

how likely is it that we just killed a bunch of ordos and left the gifteds til the end?A good point indeed... so how come all these gifteds start crawling from their caves right now...

While I don't immediately see the advantage in Fea revealing my role (it could be nothing more than gaining a known innocent when one of us dies... or whatever weird scenario plays out when she dies) neither do I see an advantage in evil-Fea's doing what she did.If there are no really strange things going on you Eomer will bite the dust toNight and we've lost a ranger. That's what's worrying me about the revealmement - especially looking how well you have performed in this game.

It's like Fea got the knowledge and wished to signal that to another baddie party (who's turn it is to make the kill the next Night)? Or anything Di might have come up with as the scenario...

But your scenario about information I just don't believe. She would know better to just hide that info so if she was dead we could be able to read it and not lynch you toMorrow...

And if she's evil, there's no telling right now what the actual situation is I'm afraid... not even what it is with you dear Eomer...

Gwathagor

11-04-2008, 02:36 PM

Glad to hear Eomer's response. Now I know he is also not on the village's side. He cannot be the ranger and I know this for a fact.

No, he cannot.

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 02:37 PM

Glad to hear Eomer's response. Now I know he is also not on the village's side. He cannot be the ranger and I know this for a fact.
OOOPPPS! :D

This is getting even more interesting... I'm off to look at the election special for a while but rest assured I will be back.

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 02:39 PM

No, he cannot.Oooops even more! :eek: :confused:

So how many rangers do we have or what the heck?

:smokin:

Gollum the Great

11-04-2008, 03:31 PM

Huh, what?

This is bizarre. What's going on?

Can anyone explain this to me??????

Gwathagor

11-04-2008, 03:40 PM

Fea claims that Eomer is the Ranger, and Eomer supports this claim. He also says that he did not protect Nogrod and suggests that there are two Rangers. There are several of us who think that this is all bull and that Fea would not reveal Eomer's special role if she was innocent or if he was in fact the Ranger. That's it in a nutshell.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

11-04-2008, 03:47 PM

And so it happens. Every time there's a gifted reveal.

++BRINNIEL

As for Gwath, I'm not sure. He already guessed that I was lying so he was obviously easily led by Brinniel. I'm not sure if he is evil but Brinniel clearly is.

Unless there's a truly devilish side to this game that no-one can guess. It's too late: I'm assuming there is good versus bad.

I'll spell it out for those villagers who are more confused by what is happening than I am:

I have revealed, and so has Fea. Judging by Brinniel's reaction, of pairing me and Fea, she sees us both as equal enemies. But either something too bizarre to figure out is going on (and no-one knows if Diamond has arranged this) or, most likely, Brinniel is evil

I think she might even be a cobbler-figure, because I can't see how she was in immediate danger. She sees that the village will have to (probably) make do with one known innocent tomorrow, rather than two, and she's sacrificing herself.

Actually, this makes perfect sense. I can't see why a lover Brinniel would do that because then it's game over for her and her lover in 2 days at most. Nevertheless, my vote stands, because it's too late for me and I must go to bed. Brinniel's very probably evil, and that's that. Apologies for the lack of structure in this post, but my thoughts evolve as I type (and I'm too tired to edit). I think the Lovers are still out there, and Brinn is covering for them. Maybe one is Gwath, I'm not certain.

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-04-2008, 03:52 PM

Interesting. You Fea if any should be familiar with this most elementary ranger-gamble: whether to protect a known innocent in a tight place when the baddies think he will be protected or take the risk and not do it so that the baddies go for somewhere else and s/he could then protect the known innocent the next Night for real buying her/him one more Day around.

No, I mean the night a few nights ago you were protected. You were attacked and didn't die. The narration said so. And if Eomer wasn't protecting you on the night you were attacked and survived it, then how is it you're alive?

Late at night, a pair went skulking hand in hand towards Nogtod’s room. One held a dagger in hand, the other nodded grimly with determination in eye. But when they arrived at Nogrod’s door, something brought them up short. A figure slumped there, against the frame, clutching something to its chest. A floorboard squeaked under one miscreants' foot, and the figure leapt up, brandishing a mighty fire poker. They saw nothing but shadowy form, and heard a voice cry out, “Go! Go from this room! You will not kill tonight!”

They hid their faces and ran from the scene of their would-be crime.

So there was absolutely a night when Nogrod was protected and attacked. And if Eomer didn't protect him, than surely somebody must have.

The next thing that irks me is that if Eomer actually is the ranger why did Fea reveal him?

This is easy. When I woke up, I saw that the people who were getting the most suspicion were Sally and Eomer. My Tuesdays are wretched and I was terrified that if I didn't post right then, I wouldn't have a chance to come back; I was afraid that if the trend of suspicion that started this morning continued, I'd come back and it would be too late for me to save two people who the village can't really risk to lose. I took a really tough gamble, hoping that if I revealed enough innocents, we'd narrow down the list of potential Lovers and lynch them today, before anybody I'd revealed was slain in the night.

Another thought: I think the other Ranger might be on the Lovers' side, to protect the different Lover pairs from each other, and focus their attacks on the ordos. Now, this gift might be a bit difficult to use in a rational way, but what if he/she was connected in some way to a Seer?

How would they be attached? Would the Cobbler-Ranger find out who the Seer had dreamed of? Except I can't dream of bad guys, so if somebody was finding out who I was dreaming of, would it really help the Lovers? I mean, it would give a Cobbler-Ranger a sort of view like "Mac's innocent so there's no point protecting him" except that seems so wildly convoluted.

Glad to hear Eomer's response. Now I know he is also not on the village's side. He cannot be the ranger and I know this for a fact.

How can you know this? Are there multiple seers the same way we're hypothesizing that there are multiple rangers?

Of course I could understand why a Lover would want to dissuade the village from trusting the identities of a revealed pair of innocent-gifteds. If one of us dies today, and not the Lovers, that gives the Lovers another night to kill with impunity.

Why must you be so blatant, Brinniel, in your attempts to manipulate the village into accidentally killing two of its most powerful members?

No, he cannot.

Good god, are you serious? These two must certainly be Lovers. I can't imagine any other role that would involve its players so stupidly contradicting me when I assure you with perfect confidence and honesty that I have been dreaming every night.

satansaloser2005

11-04-2008, 03:52 PM

If Eomer's the Ranger and he revealed (you know what I mean) didn't he/they just get him killed? I think either the whole thing's a sham (at least the part about Eomer) or else maybe Fea is indeed some weird sort of seer/ranger combo. (Which would explain why she said she's on all sides. Seer to find the baddies for the village and ranger to protect not only ordos, but to save the lovers from each other, savvy?)

Alternatively, I came to check the game while on break from work, hoping I'd get away from nasty stress. My headache is now worse. :(

EDIT: x'd with Eomer and Fea.

Gwathagor

11-04-2008, 04:38 PM

I am the Ranger. I have protected Kitanna, Nogrod, and Aganzir. (No, I'm not going to tell you the fourth one.)

I explained here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=572156&postcount=659) why I am convinced Fea is lying about Eomer.

With these two facts in mind, I see two possible explanations for the present state of affairs.

#1: Fea and Eomer are lying completely and he is not the Ranger.

#2: Fea and Eomer are only half-lying: there are two Rangers, one good and one evil, and Eomer is the evil Ranger.

Either way,

++Eomer

I am going to find some dinner and I won't be back for about four hours.

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 04:41 PM

I have three theories about Fea and Eomer:

1) They are the two lovers. The only question about this is why would they play the gifted card now? But as Noggie stated, out of anyone in this game it is these two who could pull this off. They are some of the most manipulative players I know.

2) Fea and Eomer are two baddies able to communicate at Night, but aren't lovers...perhaps cobblers working together. Considering there were only two pairs of lovers to start with, this is possible.

3) Fea is a cobbler seer and dreamt of Eomer to discover he's a baddie too (but probably not a lover since she wouldn't want to expose him).

I am the Ranger. I have protected Kitanna, Nogrod, and Aganzir. (No, I'm not going to tell you the fourth one.)

*sigh* I know you're the ranger, Gwath. I was hoping our baddies wouldn't draw you out enough to reveal, but it seems we've reached a point where there's no other choice.

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 04:42 PM

I must say I'm really getting troubled with this... :rolleyes: Fea answers Gwath and points at Brinn's post about "knowing" that Eomer is not what he says he is:Good god, are you serious? These two must certainly be Lovers. I can't imagine any other role that would involve its players so stupidly contradicting me when I assure you with perfect confidence and honesty that I have been dreaming every night.Now if they were lovers they would exactly not do that, right? It would be most stupid indeed for a last pair of lovers to behave that securely against the revealments made. So even suggesting that Fea looks very fishy indeed.

Any other possibilities? I mean I'm a bit confused by the rush and confidence of the way people here reveal or hint that they actually know better. It kind of points towards this being a really deciding moment and not a Day when we just have two lovers and seven innocents left - and whence an innocent dying this Day and probably one the coming Night - would leave us with five innocents against two baddies toMorrow.

I have been from the beginning of the opinion that there being only two pairs of lovers in this-sized village would be unbelievable. I'm not sure whether we got a pair more last Night or was it there from the beginning but looking at it there being four baddies able to win together around right now would explain this rush and certainty.

I mean with nine villagers left of which four being baddies able to win together we would indeed be playing our last Day unless we got it right toDay!

But even granted that, Fea's point about Brinn and Gwath looks bad because to believably make it she should then "know" the situation to be as dangerous as I described it - and she should have known the direness of our situation already yesterDay when she decided to reveal herself. And we have heard nothing about it.

Instead of describing that scenario to us she uses pretty lame defences / counter-accusations like: Of course I could understand why a Lover would want to dissuade the village from trusting the identities of a revealed pair of innocent-gifteds. If one of us dies today, and not the Lovers, that gives the Lovers another night to kill with impunity.and: Why must you be so blatant, Brinniel, in your attempts to manipulate the village into accidentally killing two of its most powerful members?Of which the first actually counter-argues against the direness of our possible situation (the loss we'd have would only be that of giving the lovers a free kill the next Night) and the second is merely a rhetorical piece with all that "most powerful members" -stuff I kind of don't think is an argument at all.

Or do we have here lovers (some or all of them) finally going after each other openly? But why would they do that? Shouldn't they do that during the Night at this phase of the game and not get that attention?

Thinking, thinking, thinking... and watching the elections...

EDIT: X'd with Brinn and Gwath... Well, well, well...

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 04:44 PM

This a lot for everyone to chew on, and I admit I've been only skimming the thread in between classes. I'll read more thoroughly when I get back to my room.

I'm currently in the library and am about to leave for dinner. I'll be back to post more sometime within the hour.

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 04:56 PM

Gwath: your argument was that you are convinced of the fact that Fea is lying about Eomer. But still you decided to vote for Eomer and not Fea???

Even if I myself don't actually believe in the two rangers theory (and I might be wrong with that) I would have considered the possibility that Eomer is indeed a ranger as well and thence - and looking at the way he has reacted to the revealments - I'd say he looks more innocent than Fea.

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-04-2008, 07:26 PM

Well obviously Brinniel's the real seer and I'm just faking it. :rolleyes:

++Brinniel

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 07:33 PM

Well obviously Brinniel's the real seer and I'm just faking it.
Precisely.

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-04-2008, 07:42 PM

Well, darling, if you're a seer, you obviously haven't dreamed of me.

Saying "You're lying!" is not the same as saying "I dreamed of you last night and your role is, in fact, ____."

So your opinion? Really doesn't matter to me.

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 07:49 PM

Does anyone remember the times there used to be these false seers around?

Maybe Di is taking a path down the memory-lane? I mean wasn't it that the false seer was not told s/he was "false"?

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 07:58 PM

Even if I myself don't actually believe in the two rangers theory (and I might be wrong with that) I would have considered the possibility that Eomer is indeed a ranger as well and thence - and looking at the way he has reacted to the revealments - I'd say he looks more innocent than Fea.
No, Eomer is no more innocent than Fea. Because if he were telling the truth, there would be three rangers.

Alright since I've been making hints for some time now and its basically out in the open, I suppose I should clarify. This is what I know:

Innocent:
Nogrod
Shasta
Gwath
Brinn

Don't Know:
Sally
Gollum
Groin

Baddie of Some Sort:
Fea
Eomer

That narrows things down quite a bit.

To be more specific...

On Night 1, I dreamt of Mac. I chose him because I remembered how sneaky he's been in past games, so I wanted to know whether I could trust him.

On Night 2, I dreamt of Nogrod. It was a last minute decision and I almost chose Fea, but decided it'd be safer to dream of someone I was more on the fence about in case I was wrong about my suspicions of her. Nogrod is innocent. And I'm glad to know I can trust him since we do tend to agree on a lot. Though now that we're in this mess, I rather wish I had chosen Fea instead.

On Night 3, I dreamt of Shasta. He was one of my suspects at the time and I was tired of wondering about him, so I chose him. Shasta is innocent.

Last Night, I dreamt of Gwath. My main reason for choosing him was because he kept falling under my radar. And I discovered that he's the ranger. At the time, I was a bit disappointed I still hadn't caught a lover, but now I'm glad to know Gwath's identity because I know not to believe Eomer.

There's really no need for me to reveal who I've protected. All you need to know is that I've done quite the inadequate job compared to Gwath who has spared us two kills. Good work, mate. :)

I've also known all along that there were only two pairs of lovers, but lovers aren't the only evil ones around. This is what Di informed me:

Your goal is to protect ordinary mortals from the spirits of the dead who have possessed some from among you, and are out for blood. Two sets of star crossed Lovers from beyond the grave have returned. There are also mischievous immortals afoot. This information has come to you in a dream, and marks you as special among the mortals, so be careful how much knowledge you reveal.

"Mischievous immortals" is what she said. That means there's more than one...perhaps some cobbler-like characters. But I'm not sure what the immortal part means...does it mean they cannot be killed? I don't know.

Anyways, that's why I suspect Eomer and Fea may not be lovers, but are simply distracting us. But I can't say that for sure. The whole 'immortal' thing is why I'm a bit hesitant to vote either of the two, but I'm willing to risk it if it's the only way for all of us to know for sure.

Now it's time for me to turn my attention back to the election. Things seem to be slow now, but I'll check back in little while.

So until I return,
Your Friendly Neighbourhood Watcher

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 08:03 PM

Saying "You're lying!" is not the same as saying "I dreamed of you last night and your role is, in fact, ____."

I don't know your role and I've said so. And perhaps you are a seer...just not one that's on the village's side. The reason I said you're lying is because the claim to Eomer's role...I just can't imagine Di placing three rangers in this game.

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 08:17 PM

Okay.

Using PM's to prove a point is not good politics... also what I said about the concept of false seers still applies.

Nevertheless I must say - what I think I said already before - that your revelation feels more believable than Fea's although you hadn't revealed before this moment.

Looking at the explanation of your dreams... I'm not so sure how I'll take them even if I'm inclined to believe you.

But what is this talk about three rangers while you say yourself being the seer and being at the same time failing to protect anyone unlike Gwath? I mean this kind of makes me wonder...

Puzzled as ever...

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-04-2008, 08:26 PM

I just can't imagine Di placing three rangers in this game.

We're really going to need to compare notes later because the stuff I've been told versus the stuff people are telling me? Doesn't mesh.

I was told there are two sets of lovers, and that I had an equally gifted counterpart to my seer-ness. You were told that there are two sets of lovers, a set of mischievous immortals, and you dreamed of a ranger, with yourself as the seer.

I was told of at least two less roles than you were, which means little more than that our Moddess is having a field day right now rolling on the floor watching us struggle.

Brinn, so you're a ranger as well? How's that work?

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 08:27 PM

But what is this talk about three rangers while you say yourself being the seer and being at the same time failing to protect anyone unlike Gwath? I mean this kind of makes me wonder...
Gwath is a ranger and I'm the watcher, which means I'm both a seer and a ranger. If Eomer was a ranger too, there'd be three of us...but I don't believe that's so.

The two successful protections (of you and Aganzir) came from Gwath. I was protecting other people those Nights...and was not so successful obviously.

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 08:30 PM

Brinn, so you're a ranger as well? How's that work?
I get both one dream and one protection each Night. It's basically a two gifteds in one package deal. On one hand it's pretty awesome...on the other, it's a lot of pressure. :rolleyes:

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-04-2008, 08:33 PM

I get both one dream and one protection each Night. It's basically a two gifteds in one package deal. On one hand it's pretty awesome...on the other, it's a lot of pressure. :rolleyes:

Try being a seer with a second seer saying you're a liar. :rolleyes:

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 08:36 PM

I was told there are two sets of lovers, and that I had an equally gifted counterpart to my seer-ness. You were told that there are two sets of lovers, a set of mischievous immortals, and you dreamed of a ranger, with yourself as the seer.From the face of it it looks like Fea is the false saeer and Brinn is the right one, but I might be wrong as well. If I remember it correctly, the false seers have had a kind of percentage by which their dreams turn out true or false.

But how about that "people will be killed if they lynch / kill you"? :)

And really, what those mischievous immortals are? Maybe Fea will take people with her after all - it might be good for the game balance?

I still suspect Shasta. Check my early posting for details...

Although the victory conditions seem to be a bit muddy. I mean do a false seer count as an inocent? Or a mischievous immortal?

Darn darkness...

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 08:46 PM

If we have four baddies that do count as the winning side together (lovers + two immortal baddies whatever they are) we should pick one of these on the line and keep our thumbs up we're right about it...

If only the one (?) pair lovers make the victory we might try a different route and solve the problem tomorrow - whicheverone of us is around and about.

In the latter case it would mean either:
Shasta
Sally
Gollum
Eomer

And two of them should be lovers?

What do you think? I need to go to sleep soon as even if I have been following the US elections I still have to wake up and get to the school for 11AM and it's 5AM right now...

Shastanis Althreduin

11-04-2008, 08:50 PM

Suspect me or don't suspect me, Nog, but it's clear there are better people to be concentrating on right now. I for one don't believe for a minute that Gwath, Brinn, Fea, and Eomer can ALL be gifted.

I wonder if Fea is Venus herself. I'm more inclined to believe Brinn (and by association, Gwath) right now.

Here's what I think. I think that Fea is Venus, a lone baddie, and she chose the lover pairs, not Diamond. I also think Eomer is a lover, so in my opinion he's probably the better target.

Shastanis Althreduin

11-04-2008, 08:53 PM

And may I point out, Nog, that if you believe Brinn, you sort of have to believe I'm innocent. :p

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 08:59 PM

Hmm...a false seer is possible. I've never been in a game with one before, but the sheer thought of it makes things confusing. :rolleyes:

I don't know how much to believe Fea. But based on her reaction to my reveal, I'm doubting more and more that she's actually a lover. Eomer I'm more suspicious of, but I'm not sure of him either.

On another note, I'm worried we're not giving enough attention to other players; namely Sally, Gollum, and even Groin.

I still suspect Shasta. Check my early posting for details...
If my dreams are accurate, then Shasta is innocent. I'll tell you that one reason I went after McCaber was because of Shasta's suspicion of him, and after dreaming him I remember how unappreciated yet accurate he can be. Until something proves otherwise, I'm trusting my dreams.

satansaloser2005

11-04-2008, 09:02 PM

If my dreams are accurate, then Shasta is innocent. I'll tell you that one reason I went after McCaber was because of Shasta's suspicion of him, and after dreaming him I remember how unappreciated yet accurate he can be. Until something proves otherwise, I'm trusting my dreams.

What do you mean, if your dreams are accurate? That seems very strange to me. You mind explaining what you mean by that statement, dear?

Shastanis Althreduin

11-04-2008, 09:04 PM

What do you mean, if your dreams are accurate? That seems very strange to me. You mind explaining what you mean by that statement, dear?

Seems pretty clear to me; a couple people so far have thrown out the idea of a false seer, given that so many people are claiming to be gifted.

satansaloser2005

11-04-2008, 09:05 PM

Seems pretty clear to me; a couple people so far have thrown out the idea of a false seer, given that so many people are claiming to be gifted.

Oh, duh. That makes sense. I took it to mean that Brinn wasn't sure if her dreams were right. *headTARDISes* Sorry. Posting while I'm in a meeting; I totally should have caught that.

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 09:05 PM

And may I point out, Nog, that if you believe Brinn, you sort of have to believe I'm innocent. :pA fair point I had forgotten... and I'm not sure if it makes me believe in Brinn more... looking at your first post toDay Shasta...

Darn it.

If Fea is a false seer then she might have it wrong with Sally and that I would not wonder.

Eomer is a problem I must say. There are reasons to believe he tries to take advantage of the situation - and what Gwath says is plausible, that he was careful to evade from his possible protections... And I felt bad with him from very early on as you can check. But then again I'm a bit reluctant to lynch him. Even if I might try it in the end... which is going to be pretty soon.

I need to think.

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 09:13 PM

Groin: Because he's been on the BD but not posting here, I assume he considers himself out of the game. And as I've stated many times before, I believe for that reason he's probably an ordo.

Gollum: Seems confused. At first thought, I'd guess it points to innocence, but at this late stage of the game with a limited number of innocents left, I'm not sure.

Sally: Like I said, she's played safely and her reactions look faked. Whether she's a lover or something else, I don't think she's innocent.

Eomer: Definitely not innocent. A lover or something else. But I'm not sure which. Right now, he's the one I'd consider most voting for.

Fea: For now it looks more likely she's some unknown role, though I won't rule out the possibility of her being a lover. But I have no interest in voting her toDay. If the game is still going toMorrow, I might consider otherwise.

Five unknown roles. Two are lovers. When Di told me of 'mischievous immortals' I assumed that there are two, but I'm not positive about that. But if it is true, only one of the above is an ordinary innocent.

Shastanis Althreduin

11-04-2008, 09:14 PM

You're really making a lot out of what is simply a late response, Nog. :confused:

++Eomer

I think we have the best chance of getting rid of a lover pair by executing him.

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 09:15 PM

Eomer -> Brinn
Gwath -> Eomer
Fea -> Brinn2
Shasta -> Eomer2

Anyone for Sally or Eomer?

To me it would depend on how serious we think our situation is. If we have no problem (only two counted baddies for victory around) we should try Sally I say.

If we are in a more dire strait it should be Eomer then?

I'm not sure I like the choices but others I feel are even more shots in the dark...

EDIT: X'd with Brinn & Shasta + the vote tally corrected...

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-04-2008, 09:19 PM

But how about that "people will be killed if they lynch / kill you"?

You've got a limited time to convince people, bad guys included, not to kill innocent people, including yourself. How do you do it?

Hmm...a false seer is possible.

I've never come across that role before. Is the false seer told that s/he's false? If I'm false, basically I'm asking, would I know it?

If I am false, does that mean I'm evil or does that mean I'm good but unreliable?

I think we have the best chance of getting rid of a lover pair by executing him.

That's true only if my dreams are inaccurate, which now I'm worried they are.

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-04-2008, 09:22 PM

Thought-

and please forgive me for darting in and out, I'm watching th'election with great enthusiasm...

Is it possible that Brinniel is the false seer?

On the plus side, we both know that Nog's innocent, so that's good. At least one person can be agreed upon.

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 09:24 PM

I think the false seer is one who is not told s/he's one but is given dreams of which a certain percentage is wrong... I wrote about this already and won't speculate more as I need to get to sleep soon. Read the thread, please people (means Sally as well)...

Let me add the last thing I'm afraid of from early on this Day when all this discussion hadn't taken place. Fea, must you tell the world? Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the attention and all, but....well, the ranger just needs to be my friend, I suppose.
Of course the ranger is your friend. We're on the same side, after all.
I just get the creeps from this. Maybe it's just me?

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 09:28 PM

To me it would depend on how serious we think our situation is. If we have no problem (only two counted baddies for victory around) we should try Sally I say.
I'd be willing to vote Sally. The problem is Sally won't vote for herself. Groin won't show up. And we can't guarantee Gollum will either. So at this point, I don't think it's possible to lynch her toDay.

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 09:32 PM

Is it possible that Brinniel is the false seer?
I think it's less likely mainly because of how Eomer and Gwath revealed their claimed rangership. Also the fact that I was told of other mischieveous immortals and you weren't...

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 09:42 PM

For my own sanity I'll try to sum up things...

Fea reveals really early and says she is the seer, giving a theory about her being the "untouchable one" (killing of whom would lead to a disaster to anyone trying it) with incomplete knowledge of things (compared to Brinn).

She says Eomer is the ranger and that Sally is innocent.

Sally doesn't comment her innocence but Eomer plays along with her revelation even if he looks a little uncertain about why Fea did what he did.

Brinn reveals she's a guardian (the term Fea also used even if she didn't claim to be both a ranger and a seer!) when things get strange.

She says Gwath is the ranger and Shasta is innocent.

Shasta uses her revelation as his defence and Gwath plays along.

Gollum and Groin are not mentioned.

So it's 3 against 3??? (against three innocents?)

It's getting even more confusing as I can't bring myself to believe Groin and Gollum are lovers...

Voting soon... any ideas?

PS. Congrats for the US!

Shastanis Althreduin

11-04-2008, 09:44 PM

Nog, Gwath claimed to be the Ranger himself, Brinniel simply backed him up.

Gwathagor

11-04-2008, 09:47 PM

Brinn reveals she's a guardian (the term Fea also used even if she didn't claim to be both a ranger and a seer!) when things get strange.

She says Gwath is the ranger and Shasta is innocent.

Shasta uses her revelation as his defence and Gwath plays along.

I think I actually revealed before Brinniel.

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 09:51 PM

I see the situation and will not wish to see you go Brinn at this point. You can laugh at me afterwards if you fooled me but I'm too tired to think more clearly or with more detail right now the time being 6AM and the elections about over...

Four votes given and Sally won't vote for herself, Groin is probably not going to appear and Gollum will not probably be reading all to make an educated vote...

So it leaves a choice between Eomer and Brinn...

++ Eomer

A fresher mind would have been a nice treat... :rolleyes:

EDIT: X'd with Shasta and Gwath...

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 10:18 PM

Well, I'm obviously not voting for myself:

++Eomer

Hopefully a lover but even if not, his death will certainly clear some of our confusion. Because I think we can all agree he's not an ordo.

Feanor of the Peredhil

11-04-2008, 10:18 PM

Because I think we can all agree he's not an ordo.

I could have sworn I already said this... :rolleyes:

Nogrod

11-04-2008, 10:37 PM

Well, I'm obviously not voting for myself:

++Eomer

Hopefully a lover but even if not, his death will certainly clear some of our confusion. Because I think we can all agree he's not an ordo.I had already gone to bed but after I had laid back there for a while and just thought about this I had to come back and restart my computer...

This is possibly the most suspicious vote-post I've seen in ages.

You're "obviously" not going to vote for yourself? Obviously.

So why to say that? aren't you overdoing it here?

And Eomer's not an ordo? Right... how should you know?

I can hear the laughs afterwards... or then I'm dead wrong.

But I had to say this.

Brinniel

11-04-2008, 10:59 PM

And Eomer's not an ordo? Right... how should you know?
Because why would an ordo claim he's the ranger? That'd just be absurd.

satansaloser2005

11-05-2008, 12:01 AM

The Downs TOTALLY just ate my post! That I spent like an hour working on! :mad:

Moral of the story, no matter what happens we'll find out a bunch of stuff, but each possible lynch has some ginormous risks. The one that I'm most willing to make though, is

++Eomer

If he's lying, we've caught a baddie. If he's being honest and he's the Ranger, we've still got our seer (whichever one of the lovely ladies it is, although I think I know who's being honest) and I wouldn't put it past Di to make a seer/ranger combo, so I think we'll be fine.

Alternatively, does anyone outside the US need a flat/house/roommate? *shudders*

satansaloser2005

11-05-2008, 12:05 AM

Because why would an ordo claim he's the ranger? That'd just be absurd.

If it was for the good of the village (e.g. to keep the real ranger from having to reveal) I'd do it. But I'm a whack job, what can I say?

Shastanis Althreduin

11-05-2008, 12:12 AM

Aw, poor Sally. :p

I'm pretty happy with the election results, actually. :)

Gwathagor

11-05-2008, 12:14 AM

But we don't want to talk about THAT, do we?

Shastanis Althreduin

11-05-2008, 12:15 AM

But we don't want to talk about THAT, do we?

She brought it up, don't look at me!

:Merisu:

satansaloser2005

11-05-2008, 12:16 AM

But we don't want to talk about THAT, do we?

Definitely not. Election? What election? I don't think there was an election. *hides in her happy place and stuff and junk*

Alternatively, I really am sorry about my tasty post. Longest post I've done all game and my internet ate it. :(

satansaloser2005

11-05-2008, 12:23 AM

satansaloser2005

11-05-2008, 12:33 AM

Wait a tick. Fea revealed Eomer, right? And me, and Noggie. Then that pushes Brinn and Gwath to reveal, which means the baddies now have a list of most of the clears, whoever's the real gifteds. Which also means that whoever turns out to be right....oh my giddy aunt....

Sacred bovine! Nog, we've been set up!

Forget this. I'm going to bed. Hopefully see you all in the Morning. If I'm not dead. *wibbles* Or future lynch fodder. Bloody gifteds and their complicating things.

(Sorry. A bit skittish. Long day, not including the election, and my brain is SO ADD right now. Off for now)

ETA: Did Gollum even vote? Because seriously, people not voting is getting ridiculous. Groin too. Blah.

I should explain that a bit better, yeah?

Two scenarios.

Gwath and Brinn are telling the truth:
Thus Fea and Eomer are lying, and Fea's told everyone that Nog and I (among others? sleepy, so I don't remember) are innocent. So if she dies and is guilty, we look horrible by association. Me more than Nog, as Brinn doesnt' seem to suspect him very much.

Fea and Eomer are telling the truth:
Eomer dies, proving Fea right (sort of). Thus the baddies now know that Nog and I are innocent, and why wouldn't the lovers go after known innocents? So one of us would die most likely.

Either way, I'm/we're in deep trouble. Can I cry for my mummy now?:Merisu:

(Does that make more sense than my original post? I hope so. If not, I'll hopefully clarify toMorrow)

Brinniel

11-05-2008, 12:33 AM

Hush, hush, no talk of the E word...that's what Facebook's for. ;)

Anyways, if the lovers don't die toDay...good luck choosing a kill now that you know there's two rangers to watch out for. There's no knowing who we're gonna protect. Haha. :p

EDIT: X-ed with Sally

Shastanis Althreduin

11-05-2008, 12:34 AM

Diamond18

11-05-2008, 12:35 AM

After a day of much heated discussion, role reveals, counter role reveals, and one instance of flashing which everyone later agreed to pretend never happened, the Lonely Hearts finally decided who to kill. Because no matter what, no matter who, each day must end in blood. Twas the Lonely Heart way.

Or was it?

Eomer of the Rohirrim was selected for death. But before anyone could touch him to strike or slash or smother or bloody or maim or disembowel, he smiled enigmatically and drew forth a bow and arrow which had been, amazingly, hidden beneath his housecoat. He held the LHers at bay, and for one long moment none knew what might happen. Possibly he had some bizarre role wherein once voted for, he got to kill the entire "village" in an epic display of nonsensical carnage?!?

But no.

“I am the Ranger,” he said. “The Lovers' Ranger. Come, my dear Psyche, our time amongst the mortals is ended.” And so saying, he reached out his hand to Fea.

“Phooey,” said Fea -- or rather, Psyche. But she took his hand anyway. “I tried my best, dear Cupid. And yeah, I figured out it was you. I don’t need a dream to show me my true love’s face!”

“Barf,” said Brinniel.

But the Immortal Lovers, he the Cobbler Ranger and she the Cobbler Seer, paid her no mind. They heard the voice of Venus calling them home, for their time was ended now that the Lonely Hearts no longer tolerated Cupid to stay.

Cupid shot a bow towards the sky, and then the spirits of Cupid and Psyche departed (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/Apuleius.jpg) the mortal bodies of Eomer and Fea. No longer possessed by those mischievous immortals, the pair of once lonely hearts fell dead.

Whether or not the son of Venus and his bride had succeeded in their mission here on earth, only time would tell.....

It is now Night

The Living Lonely Hearts Club:

Groin
Gollum
Nogrod
Brinniel
Sally
Shasta
Gwath

Hearts Which Have Stopped Beating:

Diamond (Lonely Heart)
Lommy (Lonely Heart)
Legate (Lonely Heart)
Lalaith (Lonely Heart)
Eönwë (Lonely Heart)
Kitanna (Lonely Heart)
Rikae (Lonely Heart)
Macalaure (Lonely Heart)
McCaber (Tristan)
Greenie (Isolde)
Aganzir (Lonely Heart)
Eomer (Cupid)
Fea (Psyche)

satansaloser2005

11-05-2008, 12:36 AM

Yeah, but the only person I have on Facebook is Sally... :(

Poor baby. So add people. ;)

By the way, if I remember right Gwath said something about the ranger in one of his earlier posts (before he revealed, assuming it's correct) that made me do a double take. Makes a bit more sense now, eh?

EDIT: Crap. X'd with Di.

Brinniel

11-05-2008, 12:38 AM

Does that make more sense than my original post?
Not really, but it's late so I forgive you.

PS. I'll stalk you on FB, Shasta ;)

EDIT: X-ed with deadline...sorry

Diamond18

11-05-2008, 12:38 AM

I WILL HAVE THE LAST POST!

I mean. Ahem. GoodNight everyone. :rolleyes:

Diamond18

11-05-2008, 10:33 PM

A murder was attempted that night, but it was foiled. Saying anything further at such a stage in the game, i.e. mentioning names, would be entirely too much information.

However, the Lonely Hearts still found themselves one less. They noticed that Groin was not present, and a search of the hotel did not enlighten them as to his whereabouts. No one could remember seeing him for several days. It was speculated that he fell down an elevator shaft, but all agreed that in that case there might be a smell. The more likely scenario was that he had taken his chances in the ocean waves and swam for the mainland.

And then there were six.

The Living Lonely Hearts Club:

Gollum
Nogrod
Brinniel
Sally
Shasta
Gwath

Hearts Which Have Stopped Beating:

Diamond (Lonely Heart)
Lommy (Lonely Heart)
Legate (Lonely Heart)
Lalaith (Lonely Heart)
Eönwë (Lonely Heart)
Kitanna (Lonely Heart)
Rikae (Lonely Heart)
Macalaure (Lonely Heart)
McCaber (Tristan)
Greenie (Isolde)
Aganzir (Lonely Heart)
Eomer (Cupid)
Fea (Psyche)

satansaloser2005

11-05-2008, 10:41 PM

Heh. I like how Groin isn't even listed among the dead. ;)

Shastanis Althreduin

11-05-2008, 10:54 PM

Well.

Brinn and Gwath are our gifteds, obviously.

Brinn has cleared Nogrod and myself.

That leaves Sally and Gollum as the two lovers.

Gwathagor

11-05-2008, 11:11 PM

I believe you are right, and I suspect Brinniel will support us on this.

So do we lynch Sally or Gollum? It doesn't make much difference, but we should all vote for the same person.

Gollum the Great

11-06-2008, 12:10 AM

Shastanis Althreduin

11-06-2008, 01:34 AM

Wait a second.

How do we know Gwath and Brinn aren't lying as well? We all know how subtle and elastic Brinn is, and what evil schemes Gwath can pull up when least expected. I'd keep an eye on that duo.

Because Eomer and Fea died evil, and no innocent Gifteds have died yet, and Di wouldn't have left us giftedless? :rolleyes:

Well, if we want to be canon (as I suspect Gollum and Sally are Romeo and Juliet), we ought to vote Gollum. :D

Nogrod

11-06-2008, 07:30 AM

Well done people!

I would have liked to lynch Fea more than Eomer (I was more convinced of her guilt) but I must say the choice between Eomer and Brinn was quite easy to make. And the result was the same anyway... :D *

So what now?

The scenario Shasta outlined seems to be the obvious one and by leaving the game for good Groin made it even clearer. How disappointing! This was getting interesting and fun! ;)

And the fact that no one died last Night even if a kill was attempted kind of talks on behalf of a two ranger -theory - or at least on behalf of Brinn being targeted and saved by Gwath and thus adding credibility to the general theory about the roles.

If nothing very disturbing is not coming forwards toDay I'm quite ready to vote for Gollum or Sally toDay to end the game.

But if there is still some mischief around we need to go and look back first. It would be bad to lose a game just because we lulled ourselves to a premature good feeling and confidence.

Although one thing no one has yet mentioned would speak on behalf of there being only one pair of lovers left. And that is the fact that Fea and Eomer were cobbler lovers which probably means they had no kills of their own. Thus there were two kills (attempts) per Night before Cabbie & Greenie were lynched and only one after that.

So Sally and Gollum, you should try to convince us (me and Shasta) that Brinn and Gwath are faking lovers and not actually the seer and the ranger. Or that Brinn has for some reason lied to the village and either me or Shasta (or both... or any combination of the four others than you) are the last lovers...

I waiting for your cases. :p

But to feel a bit more confident myself I will also take a tour back to check a few things even if the case against Sally and Gollum looks pretty believable at the moment.

Edit * Funny how staying awake late kills one's memory... I was pretty convinced Fea was a baddie yesterDay until that false-seer idea came up (and which I had totally forgotten until I went back and read the last Day through just now). Had Fea been just a false seer she would probably have been counted as an innocent... But we made it and that's good.