Tol-in-Gaurhoth LIV: The Council of Evil

[Gollum the Great]

The Fourth Age of Midde-Earth

All was well with the Reunited Kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor and the Kingdom of Rohan. Sauron, that scourge of the earth was vanquished, various minor uprisings in Rhun and Harad were crushed or pacified, and the Free Peoples suffered from no internal strife. It appeared that a time of peace and joy was to be enjoyed after the last three ages of warfare, swaying power, and hatred. Dwarves, men, hobbits, and wood elves looked into their envisioned future and saw no flaw in the outlook. Life seemed good to them.

Yet it was not so with the remnants of evil. From their hiding places in the underground, in the mountains and in forgotten lands they watched the children of light with hatred and jealousy. The combined might of all the forces of darkness might have rivaled the Free Peoples, but most of Sauron's remaining servants were undisciplined and disorderly, and many of the direct servants of Morgoth were unwilling to quit their rest and endure war once more.

It appeared that no final strike was to be made against the good and beautiful.


But the Council of Evil was formed, great beasts and spirits of darkness banded together; and a shadow grew over the earth...



The Balrog Tholdur brooded deep within the bowels of the Grey Mountains. He seethed with anger at the thought of peace in Middle-Earth after his recovery from the War of Wrath, especially as he remembered his position in the world then and the unsurpassed might of Morgoth's realm.
Tholdur recalled the elves and men he had crushed, the battalion of orcs and wolves he had led into battle, and the memory of standing near the Master on his throne. Those were the days of glory, when the Balrogs were held high in honour and considered the second only to the Dark Lord himself and his Dragons.
Inexcusable, therefore, after the supreme power of the Valar had returned once more to the Undying Lands, that all which the great Master had been opposed to was permitted to flourish. And though he no longer held to his oath, Tholdur still remembered it in part, and that fragment he was resolved to fulfill, whether from some crazed love his master or an evil resolution he made, it is not recorded. And he repeated the verse over in his mind, filling himself with fury:

"Death to light, to law, to love
Cursed be moon and stars above",

and his heart of flame waxed hotter than before, urging him to go forth and combat his ages-old enemies.

And Tholdur, Balrog of Morgoth, abandoned his caves and stood upon some tall mountain, and beheld all Middle-Earth in one, long gaze; and he, knowing that his might alone could not hope to overcome the task he saw, was filled with a great wrath, and the darkness about him increased, and the full power of the Maia was revealed in him.
But then Tholdur saw how the victory he sought after might be accomplished. For one Balrog alone could not achieve his aim, but if two united? or three? What if a strength of Morgoth's living servants gathered in might? That indeed would prove a force to be reckoned with, for there were few then in Middle-Earth who could defeat the ancient powers which destroyed much of the Eldar's work in the First Age.

But Tholdur met difficulty, for he could not lead the Valaraukar, nor summon the dragon-kind from their rest. And even were they so called, they would scorn him to make himself a head, for his power was scarce greater than theirs. Yet once more he found the path out, for the dragons loved gold and might fight with him if promised a large portion of wealth. And were the Balrogs given a large share of power over conquered peoples- for some lusted after it- they might join his cause; and Tholdur was made glad.
Then Tholdur gathered about him mountain-orcs and wolves, and sent many as messengers, ordering them to request in his name his kin, dragons, great trolls and strong leaders and rulers with many followers, to join him in a war against the Free Peoples; and power there was for the taking, and the massive hoards of dwarves and men, should they but ally themselves with him and share equal positions in his council. And the council was to meet at Mount Gundabad, a stronghold in the far north, where they would decide on how to set about the conquest of the renewed Kingdoms and the other various domains throughout Middle-Earth.
And the messengers departed and gave their communication to the great ones they found, and many of the receivers journeyed to Gundabad to help Tholdur; some for treasure, and some for authority; and one who desired not to aid, but to further his own purposes.


But the journeys took time, and in that time Tholdur gathered a small army of orcs and assaulted many of King Elessar's northern outposts, and destroyed them; and battled after with an Arnorian host five thousands strong, and though he slew many and put the others to flight, he suffered grievously from darts and long spears cunningly wielded, and he returned to Gundabad to heal and direct the council.


And many came to the council. Balrogs there were, mighty servants of Morgoth, Eonwe, Ilya, Isabellkya, and Strongbow. Dragons also; Brinniel and Gwathagor, of the Brood of Glaurung; and lesser cousins of the winged-worm Scatha, Meneltarmacil and Shasta. A great troll lord from the Ettenmoors named Sally came; and Kath, a chieftain of Sauron's Olog-hai. After these two walked one troll whom none had met, nor heard of, his name was Nogrod, and his mouth gaped at the other counselors, in his eyes shone not the light of wit or cunning, but they rested dully and his huge mouth gaped. Out of the far east appeared the blue-robed wizard Alatar (who went by a pseudonym of Boromir88), with many Easterlings in his wake. Last strode in a grey body, colossal for that breed, a werewolf called Aganzir with venom dripping from his jaws. He led the wargs of Rhovanion to Gundabad, through many dangers the Sons of the West laid for them.

* * * * * *

Then when the council was joined in a great hall beneath the mountain, Tholdur entered, and many present were surprised at his manner. For though they knew he had been injured and he stumbled as he strode forward, in his fiery eyes gleamed hatred, but his hatred was not for those who had done him corporeal hurt.

"Allies," said Tholdur, and his voice was lower than a herd of bulls', "When I called this assembly, I expected, nay; I was sure that at least one would come with mischief or discord in his heart, but I believed myself to be strong and discerning enough to sense his intent and expel him from our meeting ere he caused conflict or discontent.
"I was in error when I thought that of myself. One has come and has clouded my insight with doubt, and is even now crushing my will to resist him, for he is a necromancer of power and shrewdness and seeks to rule Middle-Earth without others to rival him. And that, I am sure, will tell you what he intends to do to you, Servants of Darkness."
Tholdur paused and grit his rock-like teeth. He appeared to be enduring an invisible weight, overloading his mind and causing him to undergo severe mental pain. After a few moments of this he continued:
"He has, as I mentioned, darkened my powers of sense, but I will tell you what I have perceived of him and his doings. Two among you have been wrenched to his side, for his sorcery is great; and they will not return even now. Those two do not know who their master is now, but they work together. That enslavement shall not happen to others, I believe, for those still faithful will- if they wish to retain their personal freedom- now steel themselves against that mighty power, unlike that unfortunate pair which had not the chance.
"Now band together and choose one among you each day to slay or otherwise dispense with. All of you have been leaders at one time at least," he paused and shot a quick glance at Nogrod, "that is to say, at least most of you. Your skills in judgement, insight, and wisdom cannot be wasted at this crucial time. Pick carefully. Looks can deceive, and a few of you toil for the good of the whole aside from the daily debate."

Tholdur suddenly roared aloud in agony. He strained his limbs and his shadowy wings reached from wall to wall, and all who beheld him were filled with amazement and fear. He dropped to his knees and clutched at his lowered head with flaming hands. He then removed his claws and raised up his chin.

"Beware!" he forced out of his massive chest. "Our enemy is strong. He may possess other powers than this you see before you, and even in defeat he shall be perilous. Yet this I know and must impart to you: he alone cannot undo good in Middle-Earth and if he survives he shall not spare any here, be they thralls to him or no. Remember all that I have said to you, and now: farewell!"

With a cry of anguish Tholdur fell onto his face. The darkness about him withered and faded into nothingness. The flames encircling him diminished and vanished, and his glowing body dimmed. The Council's originator and motivator had died by one their number.

The Council viewed Tholdur collapse so awed none moved to catch his fall. Several minutes of astonished silence ensued, and then the members began to talk....


Day 1 has begun.

Players:

Aganzir
Boromir88
Brinniel
Eonwe
Gwathagor
Meneltarmacil
Ilya
Isabellkya
Kath
Nogrod
Sally
Shasta
Strongbow

[Gollum the Great]

Go ahead and start. I won't be back on for hours.

[Meneltarmacil]

*Meneltarmacil the fire-drake enters the cavern*

Raaaawwwwwrrrrr! I brought you guys some dinner!

*brings in a number of freshly-cooked dwarves*

These guys were trying to dig tunnels all around my lair, so I roasted them. But on to other matters. I hear some of us have decided to turn traitorous. No idea who, but rest assured they will be breathed on and eaten if I run across 'em.

Let us be careful in our accusations, however. I would hate for any of our number to die needlessly, however tasty they might be.

[Strongbow]

I'll whip them, Meneltarmacil, with my thongs of fire, and I may also just roar at them. Let their hearts cave in their fiendish chests for what they have done!

Anyhow, I agree with you.

Let's not be hasty. (hoom hoom)

[Eönwë]

(hoom hoom)

Do not speak the tongue of the Ents here, brother. We are he to honour the name of Morgoth, not our foes.


Mmmmmmmm.... Dwarf...
They're a bit too crispy, don't you think?


Anyway, despite using that foul speech you are right.

We must try to find out who is evil, but as our number is few, we cannot be careless in our choices.

[Gwathagor]

For reference, here are the special roles that Gollum posted on the Admin thread.

2 Werewolves
1 Werebear
1 Seer
1 Hunter

I would like to know what a werebear is.

[Strongbow]

A werebear, O dragon of might, is one who kills for himself during the night, regardless of allegiance. He kills innocents, and Hunters, and seers, and traitors.

[Gwathagor]

How the heck do you know that? You only have 75 posts.:confused:;)

[Strongbow]

Because, friend, the Werebear is the Serial Killer in other incarnations of our predicament.

[Gwathagor]

I haven't met him either, which, frankly, is probably all for the best.

Maybe you are the werebear and that's how you knew.

[Strongbow]

I would put forth an anti-council claim on Day 1? Yes, indeed, that seems rational.

Also, check the Tol-in-Gaurhoth Grimoire, Gwath. That's also where you can get some information on the role. Not an exact definition, but one can put together the facts as easy as I could.

[Gwathagor]

I see.

[Ilya]

Just got back from some christmas stealing and there's not too much doing on the thread? Already I miss Phantom and his hemorrhagic style of posting.

Thankee, Strongbow, for the werebear tip. Glad to see at least somebody's up to speed.

[Brinniel]

I probably should check in before running off to bed. So yeah I'm here...sort of. Just don't expect a lot of activity from me in these first few Days. Surely you can understand, being the holidays and all.

After a month of 48 hour Days in the last game, suddenly 24 hours seems so short. :rolleyes: I'm gonna have vote early too I think...sometime in the morning. I still have to do last minute Christmas shopping and I don't know if I'll be back before deadline. At the slow pace this Day's been running so far, it'll probably have to be a completely random vote. Because I can't see how I'm supposed to have any clue at this stage...

[Aganzir]

Hello all.

I'm werewolf.

Therefore I want to help hunt down those who call themselves werewolves yet aren't and wrongly kill us good servants of Morgoth under the name of my noble kin.

I am naturally suspicious of Alatar88 because he once was a mighty servant of the valar. Also, I'm suspicious of Gwath because of his maybe-you-knew-because-you're-the-bear comment, and of Brinn because her post looks forced.

Gollum, has the seer dreamed already?

I'm happy we have the bear because the chances are good enough that the wolves and the bear try to kill each other.

Unfortunately for you, I got Spore as a birthday present and as I didn't have time to install it yesterday, I'm going to get acquainted with it now. Back later. :cool:

[Boromir88]

Aim for the troll! Kill the troll! Bring it down! Bring it down!

Sorry, wrong wizard.

In that case I'm going to disappear to some unbeknownst place for thousands of years and make a completely useless appearance at some other random point in time.

Place nice wolves, bear, and good luck to all.

[Boromir88]

Already I miss Phantom and his hemorrhagic style of posting.~Ilya
I will never be able to compete with the phantom :p, but I will certainly do my best. I thought we were still in night phase, and hence why I hadn't posted until just now.

[Boromir88]

I'm werewolf.~Agan
That's precisely what a bloody-hungry Agan werewolf, who eats people at night, would wish us to believe. You're playing with fire my dear, and last I looked no werewolf liked fire.

Gwath the werebear is a deadly creature, it would serve us to get rid of it just about as quickly as we would a werewolf. One time, I was a seer and faked to be the werebear so I could stay a live a little longer, ooh I loved that village.

[Strongbow]

and of Brinn because her post looks forced

Wolves prowl. You should know this better than any, Agan. They'll put forward something, merely for the sake of putting something forward. With this reasoning in hand, I also have slight suspicions for Boro.

More to come? Maybe. I'd like to hear what our resident psychic, Shasta, has to say.

[Boromir88]

I guess I should say also for today, I would like to extend a bit of courtesy to Menel. I've battled with Menel and gotten him killed far too many times on Day 1, I extend a promise on this day (and this day only) not to shoot an arrow into your sweet spot sir dragon.

I also have slight suspicions for Boro.~Strongbow
The feeling is mutual my good Balrog

[Aganzir]

The only darn computer that has Windows is apparently broken again and I couldn't play Spore so I decided to help my mum with Christmas preparations instead. :(

You're playing with fire my dear, and last I looked no werewolf liked fire.
It's difficult not to, given that more than half of us are fire creatures of sorts. ;)

Gwath the werebear is a deadly creature
Gwath the werebear. Sounds good.

Wolves prowl. You should know this better than any, Agan.
Why should I know that better than any?

It's a shame there are so few of us. The discussion hasn't started rolling properly even though we're halfway through the day already.

Let's see if I can do something about it.

Guilty
Gwath. Because of that "Maybe you are the werebear and that's how you knew." suggestion.
Brinn. Checking in with a forced-looking post without having anything special to say. Then again I always find her forced-looking (see my very good case against her in WW XXXX :p), except in last game. It'd serve her right to be lynched. Grr.

Innocent
Menel gives an innocent impression.
Strongbow. I like him for now. Besides he behaves the way I do (ie tells how wolves tend to act). I'm assuming you're not totally unfamiliar with werewolf although this is your first game (at least here)?
Eönwë is being himself ie probably innocent.

Neither
Boro is impossible to read. I'm watching him.
Ilya. Popped in but said nothing special.
Isabellkya
Kath
Nogrod
Sally
Shasta

My suspicions are due to change before the end of the day.

Are we having double lynches? I don't remember reading about it. Anyways even if they are for use I think it's rather obvious we should avoid them, what with there being so few players.

So there are 13 of us. In the worst case (ie an innocent is killed every day and night and the gifteds aren't of any help) we're dead meat after day 3. Unfortunately for some of us (:P) I don't think we can afford to lynch people just because they are quiet.

[Meneltarmacil]

Though I am loath to bring such a complaint against one of my winged bretheren, I do find Gwathagor's accusation against Strongbow to be a bit out of line. It seems like Gwath is grasping at straws to find something to say, not unlike a traitor distracting us from his plans.

However, he may just be trying to get us talking, and not be a traitor at all. We'll just have to see what comes.

[Aganzir]

Though I am loath to bring such a complaint against one of my winged bretheren, I do find Gwathagor's accusation against Strongbow to be a bit out of line. It seems like Gwath is grasping at straws to find something to say, not unlike a traitor distracting us from his plans.

However, he may just be trying to get us talking, and not be a traitor at all. We'll just have to see what comes.
Well everybody must grasp at straws to make any accusations at this stage. With me it's just that "Maybe you're the werebear &c" that raises my alarms. There was first this joking question/accusation and after Strongbow (can I call you Bowie? It'd be funny :p) answered, Gwath had to make sure everybody would at least consider it that Bowie was the bear.

Personally I think it'd be pretty bold for a newbie to come tell what the bear is if he was one himself.

[Boromir88]

You know what's interesting about this string of people, taken from the alphabetical order of the villagers from the first post...

Isabellkya
Kath
Nogrod
Sally
Shasta

They haven't posted. I find it rather unusual that Nogrod and Shasta haven't at least popped in yet. So unusual, it makes them look rather innocent. As for the other 3, well nothing special to say about their inactivity.

It seems like Gwath is grasping at straws to find something to say~Menel
It looks like the suspicions towards Gwath (from you and Agan) are the one's who are grasping at straws. Gwath seems to always be the easy Day 1 wolf target/early lynch...and why is it that I always find myself defending Gwath? One of these days, when he actually is a wolf, it's going to come back to bite me in the rear.

[Strongbow]

Agan - I wasn't accusing you. That was species-directed, not alignment directed. And yes, Bowie will suffice. :D You're correct in saying that I have played Werewolf before, although it was called Mafia, and the Werebear was the Serial Killer. That's the reason why the mechanics are so familiar to me. - No suspicion

Menel - No suspicion

Boro - My eye is on you, but just because I've seen you to be devious in the past. Not an open accusation. - Small suspicion

Gwath - I can't be sure of anything, but you don't trust me for my knowledge of the enemy. My eye is also on you, even more so than the Blue Wizard. - Suspicion

Brinn - My reasoning still stands. - Suspicion

All the others I have no call on for now.

[Aganzir]

Agan - I wasn't accusing you. That was species-directed, not alignment directed.
I know you weren't - I was just curious since I failed to get the joke. I wish I was in every game able to forget I'm a werewolf!

Tsk tsk, Boro, I wouldn't say not posting makes Nog & Shasta look innocent. It's possible (and more likely) that they just don't know the game has started, or have other hurries. Besides an evil Nog would be posting just as much or even more than an innocent Nog.

[Boromir88]

Boro - My eye is on you, but just because I've seen you to be devious in the past.~Strongbow
Don't let the past cloud your judgement my very young pada - crap wrong universe...balrogling.

Although how new to this whole shindig are you really? You seem to have a nice grasp of roles, rules, and player's styles. So Agan makes it clear she's a werewolf, and then says it would be bold for a newbie (Strongbow) to say what the werebear is if he was the werebear himself. But as I have rightly surmised, you Strongbow, do not seem too new to this at all. So, why do you and Agan just fill the rest of us in, eh? What are you two trying to do?

[Aganzir]

then says it would be bold for a newbie (Strongbow) to say what the werebear is if he was the werebear himself.
Bah, I was referring to Gwath's suspicion and why I didn't like it.

[Boromir88]

Tsk tsk, Boro, I wouldn't say not posting makes Nog & Shasta look innocent.~Agan
True but their silence makes them look more innocent than guilty. And if they are not posting because they are not aware the game has started, well that surely makes them look more innocent. Wouldn't you think? :p

Besides, care to explain this effort against Gwath?

Edit: crossed with Agan, which you did answer that, and makes this post now completely useless. Thank you. :p

[Strongbow]

But as I have rightly surmised, you Strongbow, do not seem too new to this at all. So, why do you and Agan just fill the rest of us in, eh? What are you two trying to do?

Which would you rather have: a newbie who did his homework, or a newbie who's dangling at your heels?

If I was the Bear, I'd be trying to kill Agan because the Bear is crazy like this, and wants to see everybody die. Ergo, Agan and I have no plan whatsoever, except for what Tholdur told us to do - find the traitors, and destroy them with discrimination.

[Strongbow]

And by "with discrimination", I of course mean: "without discrimination".

[Aganzir]

True but their silence makes them look more innocent than guilty. And if they are not posting because they are not aware the game has started, well that surely makes them look more innocent. Wouldn't you think? :p
You're welcome Boro. :p

That depends on when the roles were sent. ;) At least Nog was last online about 12 hours before the game started so I wouldn't bet on it.

Bowie what do you mean we have no plan? Of course we do! We're trying to kill all the innocen.. oops!

Yours truly hasn't eaten anything today so she's going to find some nice tender elven meat now (dwarves are way too barbaric for me).

[Brinniel]

I'm sure one of the reasons this Day has been so quiet is because several players haven't realised the game has started (and with a Day), and are too busy with RL holiday stuff to check the Downs. I don't think that'll point to any sort of guilt or innocence.

After last game, I won't be surprised if you all decide to lynch me early on. It's a good thing I don't have a special role. For once, I'm actually not the slightest bit worried. I'm just relieved to finally get to play without the pressure of being something other than ordo for the first time in 2 1/2 games. :cool:

I have to vote very soon, btw.

[Brinniel]

I have to go now and I don't know if I'll be back before deadline. So time to vote (yay for randomness).

++Aganzir

You know I love you Aganzir, but you're the one I feel least guilty voting for. And anyway, what better way for a werewolf to hide than to play a werewolf? :p

Alright, see you all toMorrow (or not...).

[Gwathagor]

You're correct in saying that I have played Werewolf before, although it was called Mafia, and the Werebear was the Serial Killer. That's the reason why the mechanics are so familiar to me.


I was wondering what the Serial Killer remark was supposed to mean. Mafia, right.

Bah, I was referring to Gwath's suspicion and why I didn't like it.

Yeah, that was banter more than anything else. I would be very slow to suspect someone on such flimsy evidence.

[Aganzir]

Ai-ai Brinn! :Merisu:

Yeah, that was banter more than anything else. I would be very slow to suspect someone on such flimsy evidence.
I dare guess that if people were suspecting Bowie very much now because of that, you wouldn't be saying so. Anyway someone needs to get the game rolling and you've been helping in it with your bear remark. ;)

Luckily there's still... erm... four and half hours till deadline.

[Boromir88]

Which would you rather have: a newbie who did his homework, or a newbie who's dangling at your heels?~Strongbow
Hmm good point, you've passed for today.

That depends on when the roles were sent. At least Nog was last online about 12 hours before the game started so I wouldn't bet on it.~Agan
Well then let us hope he is quickly informed, or this will be a very random, and very poor choice of our Day 1 voting options.

Alright so a somewhat flippant statement (yet not completely flippant) of who I currently trust.

Edit: crossed with Agan Again - this is becoming a habit.

Ilya- simply for mentioning the phantom. He will be sorely missed, as a confidant, and I can't hijack a discussion by myself. Although I am guessing Agan is campaigning for that job - so Agan what do you say? Where was I? Oh yes, Ilya looks trustworthy.

Brinn- She's such a sweet-talker, and that makes her cunningly dangerous. But hey, I think she's genuine, may the grace the Vala have bestowed upon me protect me now if my hasty judgement comes back to execute me in my slumber.

Everyone else, well I trust you no farther than I could throw a sack full of irons.

Edit 2: And for some reason I put my first edit in the middle of my post. Odd.

[Aganzir]

To clarify, I wouldn't bet on Nog being aware that the game has started. I was in a hurry to finish the post because I wanted to go to eat so I was unclear.

I think I'll text Nog.

What do you mean you can't hijack the discussion Boro? :p

[Ilya]

Oh! Oh! I forgot about this so maybe others have as well. Everybody go invisible.

Just checking in. Time to stir up some knee-jerk suspicions based on nothing but innocuous not noteworthy at all conversation! In the spirit of Christmas, of course.

Agan - Already has a vote, but is being oddly disarming. Either she has me under a glamor, or I'm getting no bad vibes just yet.

Brinn - I get exhausted vibes from you, so be well and have fun, whatever it is you're doing. It's a little weird that you already think you're going to be gone so soon into the day, and that's the only thing that's striking me a little strange.

Bowie - Mad props for not being intimidated and coming out swinging, new-favorite-nickname guy. Will you think ill of me if I believe your eagerness and preparation indicate that you have a role? Like, I dunno about WW just yet, but you're up to something, mister.

Boro - I know you'll do your best. :) That said, the "Oh, Boro's innocent" moment hasn't happened for me yet. You're being watched, my friend.

Eonwe - I got nothing.

Gwath - I'm suspiciousish, but honestly I think it's because other people are suspiciousish of Gwath, and he looked guilty last game too, so I'm holding off on my pitchfork for now.

Menel the Dragon - Unlike his less accepting brethren (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWqTk73ab3Q), this fiery beast seems to be on the level so far. Was quick to point out what looked to me like Gwath joking, but I haven't played with Meneltarmacil before, so I'm reserving judgment.

Everybody else - Um, hi.

I have to go out and succor our floundering economy for a bit, but I'll be back before voting time ends.

[Strongbow]

Bowie - Mad props for not being intimidated and coming out swinging, new-favorite-nickname guy. Will you think ill of me if I believe your eagerness and preparation indicate that you have a role? Like, I dunno about WW just yet, but you're up to something, mister.


I've been eager waaaay before role PMs came out, so: try again.

Boro - Can't really tell: are you suspicious of me or no?

[Boromir88]

What do you mean you can't hijack the discussion Boro? :p~Agan
Unlike tp, I can't continue to talk to myself. Last time, he pushed me to a higher activity than I thought was ever possible, that was because he was even more active. I need a partner so to say, and I was asking if you'd like the job. :D

Edit: crossed with Strongbow

[Boromir88]

Boro - Can't really tell: are you suspicious of me or no?~Strongbow
You bought yourself another day, from me at least, so to say. But I don't trust you - hopefully that makes a little more sense.

[Eönwë]

Tsk tsk, Boro, I wouldn't say not posting makes Nog & Shasta look innocent. It's possible (and more likely) that they just don't know the game has started, or have other hurries. Besides an evil Nog would be posting just as much or even more than an innocent Nog.
And your point is...? :p

I was wondering what the Serial Killer remark was supposed to mean. Mafia, right. Ah, that explains it.

Yeah, that was banter more than anything else. I would be very slow to suspect someone on such flimsy evidence. Well, we don't have much else to go on- it's Day one and there's under 50 posts!

x-ed since last Bowie.

[Strongbow]

You bought yourself another day, from me at least, so to say. But I don't trust you - hopefully that makes a little more sense.

We're golden now. Maybe not golden. Maybe brass.

And what did I tell you: deviousness. It stems from shrewdness and suspicion.

[Eönwë]

This probably the quietest Day of WW (or TiG, as I'm sure that's what Gollum would like it called) I've played in. Or maybe it just seems so after the last game. Nogrod hasn't even said one word!

There's not really much to say.

I think I'll go analyse the very small number of posts we have and make a list of what I'm gleaning from the posts so far.

[Aganzir]

I need a partner so to say, and I was asking if you'd like the job.
I do!
At least I can try to. ;)

So right now I'm not worried about Bowie and Menel.

Boro, when you said to Bowie that the feeling (of slight suspicion) was mutual, what did you mean? If it wasn't a joke, could you elaborate a bit?
And I just can't for the life in me see how not posting should make Nog and Shasta look innocent. Unusual, yes, but it indicates nothing.

So I'm being disarming Ilya? Eek, time to do something about it.
You're one filthy werewolf and should die!!!! Immediately!!!!!
:p

Unlike Ilya, I don't think Bowie's eagerness means he has a role. Besides, that can be a dangerous thing to say aloud, especially in a game with no ranger. The baddies will remember it when looking for possible targets.

I don't know about Ilya. She doesn't ring any alarms yet, though.

Eönwë my point is that I disagree with Boro calling Nog & Shasta innocent-looking because of their lack of posting. Screw that last sentence there, I'm tired. ;)

I don't know about Brinn. On the one hand I'd like to trust that her happiness over not getting a role is real, but then again, it's just not enough. It's always hard to make up one's mind based on such statements.
And she voted for me and I know I'm innocent.
But I always suspect her.
So what? In this game she deserves it. :P

I'm actually feeling quite good about Eönwë. He seems to participate. And I know I can't know for sure because he's never been a wolf, but his behaviour looks rather normal. I believe he'd be somehow different as a wolf.

Also, we must not forget that also the wolves & bear can be somewhat honest about their suspicions as there is always a chance they hit their enemy.

Okay Nog just texted me. I got the impression he didn't know the game had started.

Of course I could text also Kath if need be as I happen to have her number as well... :-D

[Eönwë]

may the grace the Vala have bestowed upon me protect me now if my hasty judgement comes back to execute me in my slumber.

The Valar? Why have the Valar bestowed grace upon you? Mighty suspicious if you ask me.


Eönwë my point is that I disagree with Boro calling Nog & Shasta innocent-looking because of their lack of posting. Screw that last sentence there, I'm tired. ;)
I was joking.

Okay Nog just texted me. I got the impression he didn't know the game had started.

Of course I could text also Kath if need be as I happen to have her number as well... :-D
If you hadn't already accepted the position of being Boro's partner, I would have said that we should appoint you Chief Texter.

[Eönwë]

Innocent
No-one seems too innocent.

Probably innocent
Boro- Posts a lot, and says quite a bit. He's off the hook for now.
Strongbow- He seems genuine, and is being oversuspected in my opinion.
Aganzir- Also posts a lot. She also seems quite innocent, but as much as Boro. She may be our werebear, but I doubt it. She was about to go in the category below, but after her seemingly innocent last post, I feel better about her.

Slightly Innocent
Ilya- That invisibility thing seemed genuine. But then it was only when I started looking at posts that I realised that she as flying under my radar (or reindeer, or fell beast for that matter)


Could be either
Brinn- Posts twice. Doesn't say much. Seems like she's trying to let off innocent vibes. But that doesn't necessarily make her evil.


No idea
Menel- Seems innocent, but I've never playeed with him before, so I don't know his tactics.

All those who haven't yet posted- Come on, post!

Slightly suspicious
Gwath- For one, he asks for info on the werebear and then attacks the answerer. Granted, Strongbow is a newbie (to WW, but not Mafia), but I think he definately overreacted.

Highly suspicious
Sadly, I can't find anyone suspicious enough for me to put here.


If there's anyone else, you are seriously under my radar, and are therefore highly suspicious in my eyes.



edit: didn't x-post with anyone. How depressing!

[Aganzir]

The Valar? Why have the Valar bestowed grace upon you? Mighty suspicious if you ask me.
You see, he's Alatar. ;)

If you want me to be an official texter, I expect some pay. :p

Eönwë, why do you think I might be the bear? Why not a wolf?

Anyway I'm going to have a sauna now.

[Eönwë]

You see, he's Alatar. ;)

Oh, yeah! Now I remember.

All those years spent in a cave must have extinguished my brain.

[Gwathagor]

I dare guess that if people were suspecting Bowie very much now because of that, you wouldn't be saying so.

Touche.

[Nogrod]

Lemme see, ain't there a party around? And nobody, ye nobody was telling me nothin' bout it. Manners... mind you! ... Or was me ol' me sleepin? I'd do with a shin or two to gnaw right now.

So we just vote right on or tomorroer? Don't you nobody suppose I know how to read anyway. Uh, too much to think... Blimey, me brain hurts! Let's just bang some heads together and see who stays standing the last?

*frowns with no one getting enthusiastic enough*

Okay, okay... I'll try that reading-stuff even if I don't see the point.

[Boromir88]

I do!
At least I can try to. ;)~Agan
If you are trying to manipulate me so you can devour me at night, I must say it's working.

Boro, when you said to Bowie that the feeling (of slight suspicion) was mutual, what did you mean?
Basically it is because of all the Gwath talk earlier. Someone in there is bound to be furry (either wolf or bear).

First you, Agan:
Also, I'm suspicious of Gwath because of his maybe-you-knew-because-you're-the-bear comment,

Gwath. Because of that "Maybe you are the werebear and that's how you knew." suggestion.

And then others start following suit:
I do find Gwathagor's accusation against Strongbow to be a bit out of line. It seems like Gwath is grasping at straws to find something to say, not unlike a traitor distracting us from his plans.~Menel
Gwath - I can't be sure of anything, but you don't trust me for my knowledge of the enemy. My eye is also on you, even more so than the Blue Wizard. - Suspicion~Strongbow
Gwath - I'm suspiciousish, but honestly I think it's because other people are suspiciousish of Gwath, and he looked guilty last game too, so I'm holding off on my pitchfork for now.~Ilya
Gwath- For one, he asks for info on the werebear and then attacks the answerer. Granted, Strongbow is a newbie (to WW, but not Mafia), but I think he definately overreacted.~Eonwe
Now with all those people announcing suspicion, logic plus a simple application of odds/statistics would say one is up to no good.

One of these days Gwath will turn up to be a baddie and it will come back to be the end of me, maybe that will be the end of me. However, I find it far more suspicious that we have all these numbers attaching on to the Gwath suspicion, than Gwath's own rather odd posts.

I know I said I would give Menel and Strongbow a pass today, but hey I'm more than willing to cancel that.

Of those, Eonwe looks the most innocent. He gives some reasonable logic to suspecting Gwath and Agan you first pointed it out. Plus your efforts to get some action today look good. If you are innocent, I would say they worked, I mean we don't have many posts, but you certainly got a lot of people talking about Gwath.

Menel accuses Gwath of grasping at straws, but that's a general accusation that can be applied to almost anyone, especially at Day 1. And I don't like the last phrase:
not unlike a traitor distracting us from his plans.
It looks like something Nogrod did to Gwath before. That is Gwath did this, and a wolf would do that, thus Gwath must be a wolf.

Strongbow makes it personal - that is since Gwath suspects him he suspects Gwath more than the Blue Wizard (me).

And I recant my trusting feeling about Ilya, because that just looks like an attempt to lynch Gwath but in the process not make herself too attached. That is saying Gwath is somewhat suspicious, but she won't pursue it further today. But, you encouraging others to go after Gwath if they want to - eh Ilya?

Edit: Crossed since Agan's #49

[Eönwë]

DL in half an hour, people!

[Strongbow]

(Cross my fingers that I don't cross with anybody)

Boro - either Gwath or I are furry, eh? You've already given me reprieve, so I don't think that today I'll make a putsch against you. I'm wary, but no longer suspicious.

Agan - first off: sauna's are instruments of evil. Everybody knows this. :p Now that that bit of important business has been cleared out, I'd have to say that you're directing the bandwagon to shed suspicion on Gwath. Not to say that I don't mind, seeing as Gwath went after me a bit.

Eonwe - says I'm being oversuspected. I like this. This not taken into consideration, Eonwe also doesn't really cause a blip on my radar for the moment.

Ilya - I'm up to something, apparently. Not so. Not suspicious, but not innocent enough for me.

Gwath - Says I'm the Bear, then goes to radio silence.

Basically, I don't think we should jump to conclusions. Who knows? We could be missing the villains altogether.

Edit: I forgot a bracket.

Edit2: For English! I forgot what it was in my Eonwe line.

[Eönwë]

Only 15 minutes left- hurry up!

[Nogrod]

DL in half an hour, people!Really? I thought it would be like an hour and a quarter from this moment... Any other possible deadlines? Let's everyone have our own deadlines? I could push my DL for tomorrow.

[Eönwë]

Ok, I have to go now.

This seems to have been a very unproductive Day so far (and we only have a quarter of an hour left). Since my "list" post I haven't seen anything to really change my opinion, so I vote:

++Gwathagor

edit: x-ed. Really? Well, it's too late now. I might be back around if so, but I'm not sure.

[Aganzir]

I'm back.

No it's still a bit over an hour till deadline.

Off to read (not that there is much).

[Nogrod]

Where's that sneakin' lil' vermin when you need him? Hey you Gollum-creature, what's the deadline?

Only two votes in, right? So it's not DL yet says my troll-brain.

EDIT: X'd with Agan... okay someone else thinks the same, good.

[Gollum the Great]

Hmmmmm.......


I thought that the DL was in about an hour. Who made up this "in 15 minutes" thing? or perhaps someone thought we were still onto 5 PM EST.

[Nogrod]

A quick-list to get some order into my own head as well.

Aganzir - not a Day1 lynch. Should be left to the mercy of the bad baddies on the first Days.

Boromir88 - see Agan.

Brinniel - the sneakiest ever ww-player who once again looks soo genuine with her happiness about having no role. Should be lynched just to be sure.

Eonwë - tends to end up being an easy lynch in the erly Days and basically turns out innocent. Not my choice toDay.

Gwathagor - see Eonwë and multiply that bad luck times ten.

Meneltarmacil - see Eonwë.

Ilya - nothing to say thus far.

Isabellkya - not seen around...

Kath - see Izzy.

Sally - see Izzy.

Shasta - see Izzy.

Strongbow - newbies shouldn't be lynched on Day1 without good reasons.


Note1. Funny that people are kind of alphabetically organised in groups. :)

Note2. One third not posting on Day1 is bad. Although I wouldn't have posted either if Agan hadn't told me the game was on already. So I'm not holding it against them - nor do I hold it as an rgument for their innocence. For example I came online an hour ago or something and had no idea of my role as I logged in. So it's also perfectly possible they are in a same situation. And mathematically one of them at least is against us.

Note3. We seem to be facing even tougher choices than on normal Day1 because of the lack of posting / posters. But let's not call them random. Give reasons for your votes, please, even if they aren't heavyweight-stuff.

*goes back thinking*

[Aganzir]

Nog you're making me laugh an awful lot.

If you are trying to manipulate me so you can devour me at night, I must say it's working.
Nah I'm a sweet little werewolf who'd never ever devour anyone.

My first comment regarding Gwath was more of an attempt to get some talk than a real suspicion. And although I have phrased it that way a few times, I don't think Gwath was suspecting Bowie - it could rather be interpreted as him trying to make others suspect him. Or then grasping at straws because there's nothing else.

I agree with Boro that Eönwë looks the most innocent of those who suspected Gwath.
I don't find Menel that suspicious either, mainly because I agree with him. But I do agree with Boro (gah why am I agreeing with him all the time again? I don't want to!) about the last phrase. It would look far less suspicious if it was "like a traitor &c" instead of "not unlike a traitor &c". Then again I find the way Menel phrases things always suspicious so I could give him the benefit of doubt for today.
At least Ilya is being honest, but I suspected her because of that in last game because honesty is as good a cover for a wolf as any.
I don't know about Bowie. In a way he seemed a bit overreactive given the amount of suspicion Gwath had expressed, but apart from that he's quite innocentish.

Agan - first off: sauna's are instruments of evil. Everybody knows this.
Bah no way! You're hurting my nationalist pride (earlier I wasn't aware I had any)! :p

Also, I don't think I'm directing the bandwagon to Gwath. I was the first to come up with the subject but I haven't been pursuing him since. And I'm unlikely to vote for him unless I really can't come up with anyone else.

edit: xed with Gollum and Noggins

[Gollum the Great]

I may be late to give an ending for the day by an hour or two, I'll be away from the internet and not a position to get at it. But with the extended night I don't think this should be a problem.

[Aganzir]

I assume we should stop talking in half an hour anyway?

Also Gollum, did the seer get to dream already although there was no official night (see, I keep asking you questions again although you're the mod :D)?

And Eönwë,
Eönwë, why do you think I might be the bear? Why not a wolf?

[Nogrod]

Blahh! The sporty-player in me tells me I should vote for Brinn or Ilya then.

Another choice is picking someone from that Gwath-waggon as I do also agree it looks more lupine than Gwath's original statement Agan pointed out. The wolves need easy and street-credible causes to use on Day1 and that one looks nice looking at the overall silence and uneventfulness of this Day. The problem is that we seem to have there the usual suspects once again... :confused:

Or maybe we should start on concentrating on this "let's suspect those who suspected Gwath of suspecting Bowie" -gang? :D

[Boromir88]

To be the unsporty one...

Isabellkya - not seen around...

Kath - see Izzy.

Sally - see Izzy.

Shasta - see Izzy.~Nogrod
I would have no qualms about voting for one of these four, the problem is anyone of them can just be oh so entertaining to have around.

Or, I guess Ilya.

I would think if one really wanted to be unsporty, the choice would be Gwath. :rolleyes: (No offense meant Eonwe, just seems like he's been getting unjustly booted recently).

[Aganzir]

Aganzir - not a Day1 lynch. Should be left to the mercy of the bad baddies on the first Days.
Bah people always want to get me killed by wolves! I'm much more useful alive, I tell you! Think how silent it will be later on when a third of the village is away the whole day and I'm dead. :p

Anyway I agree about practically everything on your list (garr I don't want to agree with people!).

Right now I think I could vote Brinn although I'm not all that sure about her either. But at least she voted for an innocent, and after her performance in last game I'm not that happy with giving her the benefit of doubt. :p

edit: xed with Nog & Boro

[Nogrod]

Of the Gwath-suspecters this looks to me the most lupine: Gwath - I'm suspiciousish, but honestly I think it's because other people are suspiciousish of Gwath, and he looked guilty last game too, so I'm holding off on my pitchfork for now.Nicely conditional formulation leaving a door open to act on it later as it would fit her ("no, I was not on him actualy, I said I was holding off" or "weel, as I said I have nothing better right now and I have alredy voiced my suspcion on him").

[Aganzir]

I rather didn't vote anyone who hasn't been around today. It's better to have at least a little suspicion than cast a completely random vote.

I could go for Ilya too, though.

Is there really no one else here but us three? Five votes cast out of 13 is quite a small number.

[Boromir88]

Bah people always want to get me killed by wolves! I'm much more useful alive, I tell you!~Agan
I could vote for you today and pull together a big mock-fight tomorrow to make the evil ones at night believe it's worth keeping you alive?

The benefit would be two-fold, it would save me from making a disastrous decision at the end for the ruin of all and it would certainly be helping you out. What say you? :D

[Aganzir]

I could vote for you today and pull together a big mock-fight tomorrow to make the evil ones at night believe it's worth keeping you alive?

The benefit would be two-fold, it would save me from making a disastrous decision at the end for the ruin of all and it would certainly be helping you out. What say you? :D
But what if people thought you were serious and decided to lynch me? :eek::D

[Boromir88]

I rather didn't vote anyone who hasn't been around today. It's better to have at least a little suspicion than cast a completely random vote.~Agan
Based on probability we'd probably have just a good of a chance of finding a furry one amongst those 4 than the 4 of the Gwath suspectors I talked about. And at least those 4 would be talking.

[Strongbow]

[I don't know about Bowie. In a way he seemed a bit overreactive given the amount of suspicion Gwath had expressed, but apart from that he's quite innocentish.

Only because the finger that points to me will be cut down swiftly and surely.

This being said, I'm not really going to hound Gwath because of the radio silence. While lurking is a tell, it can also be a lack of time.

Ergo:

++Brinn

Last standing, first down. And a little to open about her roleclaims.

x'd with Boro and Agan.

[Aganzir]

Based on probability... Well true but I'm not doing it anyway. It'd feel unfair.

xed with Bowie. So it's now
Brinn: ++Agan
Eönwë: ++Gwath
Bowie: ++Brinn

[Boromir88]

To avoid a mass cross voting,

++Isabellyka

Sorry dear, this was a hat pull of the non-posters. Happy holidays and best wishes, no hard feelings.

Edit: crossed with Strongbow and Agan

[Eönwë]

Ok, I've returned. Sorry about all that confusion with the DL.

Eönwë, why do you think I might be the bear? Why not a wolf?
Well, you seemed to be playing more in the "I'm-in-this-for-myself-who-care about-anyone-else" style to me. You haven't done the whole "disassociating-myself-from-someone-but still-protecting-them"thing (well, maybe a bit with Boro), but then again, you probably wouldn't be so obvious.
Anyway, I rejected this idea- I don't think I made i that fact clear enough in my list though (I tried to do it in the last sentence, but it obviously didn't come out right).

[Nogrod]

Bah people always want to get me killed by wolves! I'm much more useful alive, I tell you!Now either I must have faulty logic toDay or... then this is físhy indeed! :eek:

[Nogrod]

If I'm around to watch you Boro toMorrow I will certainly use a magnifying glass for it! That vote was just an outrageous throw-away!

[Aganzir]

Anyway, I rejected this idea- I don't think I made i that fact clear enough in my list though (I tried to do it in the last sentence, but it obviously didn't come out right).
Yeah I understood it, I was just curious.

Now either I must have faulty logic toDay or... then this is físhy indeed! :eek:
I was talking about my daily activity compared to many others. Sorry if I'm unclear, I'm tired.

Nog you always get more paranoid when the deadline draws near. :p

[Boromir88]

That vote was just an outrageous throw-away!~Nogrod
Yep but be sure you want to rattle this one's cage before you step into the ring. :p

[Aganzir]

++Brinn

I prefer her over others who have been voted.

[Nogrod]

Anyone else for Ilya?

I could settle down with Brinn as well but would favour Ilya.

Nog you always get more paranoid when the deadline draws near.Paranoia is my second name... :rolleyes:

[Aganzir]

Paranoia is my second name... :rolleyes:
Haha it's just funny that you so often seem to post one-liners throwing suspicion around when it's just a few minutes to the deadline. :D

[Nogrod]

Okay then.

++ Brinn


A cage for a wizard, Boro? Or is it a wolf that lurks under your cloak and is caged for reason? :rolleyes:

[Boromir88]

The number of non-voters is ridiculous by the way.

[Aganzir]

Yeah less than half of us voted... :rolleyes:

edit: Anyway I suppose the day is done now although Gollum isn't here to post the deadline.

[Eönwë]

The number of non-voters is ridiculous by the way.

So true...

[Nogrod]

After such amount of back and forthing with the beginning-date + the holiday-season preparations being under way I do understand why that is - but it doesn't change the fact. Too many were not involved. :(

[Meneltarmacil]

OK, I'll vote now, despite my lack of anything really solid to go on.

After Gwathagor made the bear accusation earlier, Ilya mentions that Bowie is "up to something" and also mentions suspicion of Gwath, but lets the latter slide.

I don't think Strongbow has done much that warrants suspicion, and I agree that Gwath tends to make suspicious comments regardless of whethjer or not he actually turns out to be evil. Ilya does seem a bit suspicious, and I also don't like how Aganzir flip-flops on several different people (including Ilya). I get the sense that she is trying to cast suspicion on others, yet making it appear otherwise.

For now, I'll vote for

++Aganzir

[Ilya]

Well, I'm back.

You know, it's funny to read almost everyone voicing suspicion of me but no one's voted for me. (When is the deadline, btw? Gollum?) I'm like the electric car.

As to my cleverly worded suspicion of Gwath, if I voice a thing I don't see how it gives me any denyability later. I am suspicious of him, but because I couldn't find any textual evidence - I mean, I brushed the whole you're a werebear thing off as a Day 1 ribbing - I know myself well enough to know it's because I'm leaning on other people.

Bowie: All right then, young sir, I meant no offense. It's my job to ask questions 'bout loud players I don't know. There's talk of strange folk abroad. Can't be too careful.

So, Brinn is gone unless Menel's vote got in over the deadline. I'm going ++Brinn to just be sure there's no double-lynch...if I'm under the deadline, that is.

[Kath]

Argh! What is wrong with me? Every single flipping Day 1 I just miss! I'm assuming this post is outside the deadline as it's 12am my time and that's definitely outside 10pm.

I will be around toMorrow, I apologise for toDay.

[Gwathagor]

After Gwathagor made the bear accusation earlier, Ilya mentions that Bowie is "up to something" and also mentions suspicion of Gwath, but lets the latter slide.


I'll say this again: I was not accusing Strongbow. That was a piece of early Day 1 banter and did not reflect any serious suspicions on my part.

Anyway, I think I missed the deadline. We were out taking Narnia pictures in the snow.

Gollum probably won't count my vote, but out of principle and hurt feelings:

++Eonwe

[Brinniel]

After last game, I won't be surprised if you all decide to lynch me early on.
Told you so. :rolleyes:

Which is why I chose to join this game even though I knew my heart wouldn't be entirely into it with the holidays interfering. I figured I'd get lynched early in whatever next game I played, and I wanted it to occur at a time when I wasn't feeling completely devoted. Quite honestly I'm not a huge loss, since I don't think I would've had much time to contribute anyway. I just hope you guys don't continue to lynch me "just in case" for every game following...otherwise it'll no longer be fun for me.

P.S. Just for future reference, I'm not always a baddie. You're just lucky I'm not the seer. :p

P.P.S. I am dead...right?

[Brinniel]

Btw Ilya, if that's a vote, it doesn't count unless it's on a separate line...at least that's the typical rules. But it doesn't matter because Agan has two votes and I have three, I think.

[Gollum the Great]

With the roles sent out late, multiple players unaware that the game had started (or thought it began with a night), and Christmas doings being attended to, I will consider all posts as within the reaches of the day phase.

Brinn to be slain soon. Description will follow soon....

[satansaloser2005]

With the roles sent out late, multiple players unaware that the game had started (or thought it began with a night), and Christmas doings being attended to, I will consider all posts as within the reaches of the day phase.

Brinn to be slain soon. Description will follow soon....



Ack! For some reason I thought we started tomorrow, or I'd have checked the board. Sorry, everyone!

[Gollum the Great]

After some arguing and speeches, the Council chose to eliminate the Wingless Dragon Brinniel. "One can never fully trust the offspring of Glaurung," said one Councilor, "remember what he did to his orcs after he conquered Nargothrond!"
Several moved towards the dragon, not quite willing to come too close.
"At least you're not killing one of those who aid the Council," Brinniel said, "but I cannot prove my innocence."

"You're right you can't," growled Eonwe, and Brinniel snarled at him.

Two members leapt swiftly forward and smashed the scaly head. Black blood burst forth as from a fountain and Brinniel exhaled for the last time. Sticky liquid spread over the stone floor while the dying worm murmured: "Glory to Morgoth!"

...and the Council realized they had not acted for the best.

Councilors:

Aganzir
Boromir88
Eonwe
Gwathagor
Ilya
Isabellkya
Kath
Meneltarmacil
Nogrod
Sally
Shasta
Strongbow

Dead:

Brinniel (innocent)

[Gollum the Great]

No time for a descriptive post.

Alatar was slain in the night.


Dead:

Boro (inno)
Brinn (inno)


Alive:

Everyone else

Begin without me; I won't be here.

[Strongbow]

Alas.

Did the Bear choose not to kill? I am surprised.

[Aganzir]

Ouch.

Well at least this makes me feel quite good about Nog. I find it incredibly hard to imagine he'd kill someone he enjoys playing with that much, even to bluff.

I wonder why there was only one kill if we're supposed to have both two wolves and a bear. Hmm Izzy hasn't been online has she? Could it be she is the bear and just doesn't know the game has started? Or does just one team get a kill each night? Or was it deliberate? I assume the gifted roles are traditional and neither of them has any protecting abilities?

I think it's possible the killer/s thought Boro was the seer. It's a thing at least I considered yesterday. In addition, he was quite widely regarded as innocent. Plus he can be a dangerous player.

A narration would have been nice provided that it had given us some insight as to whether it was the bear or wolves who killed Boro, but...

[Aganzir]

I also don't like how Aganzir flip-flops on several different people (including Ilya). I get the sense that she is trying to cast suspicion on others, yet making it appear otherwise.
How am I flip-flopping? On who? How does it look like I was indirectly trying to cast suspicion on people?

Lil' Miss Aganzir is off to sleep.

[Meneltarmacil]

To answer your question, Aganzir, you initially said this about Gwathagor:
Also, I'm suspicious of Gwath because of his maybe-you-knew-because-you're-the-bear commentand then followed it up in other posts with things like this:
Guilty
Gwath. Because of that "Maybe you are the werebear and that's how you knew." suggestion.andI dare guess that if people were suspecting Bowie very much now because of that, you wouldn't be saying so.

Later on, however, you seemed to change your opinion with this statement:
My first comment regarding Gwath was more of an attempt to get some talk than a real suspicion.(Gwath was clearly listed as "Guilty" by you earlier, though...)
Also, despite your discussion about Gwath with Boromir88 afterward which yielded the "Guilty" comment, you made this statement:
I was the first to come up with the subject but I haven't been pursuing him since.

Add that to the continuous suspicion of Brinniel the unjustly killed, and things don't look too good.

Well, that's all for now, as I grow weary and must retire to the giant treasure heap in my lair for some rest.

[Aganzir]

Those familiar with my playing know I always roughly divide people into Guilty, Innocent and Neither categories. One can always ask himself how much trust they should lay on these lists made before there has even been 20 posts.

My first comment regarding Gwath was an attempt to get some talk instead of a real suspicion. I tend not to be all convinced someone is a baddie just because of one weird comment, and later on I found it reasonable to change my initial opinion.

By saying I hadn't been pursuing Gwath after the start I meant I hadn't come up with new things pointing at his guilt.

On who else did I flip flop? How did I flip flop on Ilya? How was I casting suspicion on people while trying to appear I didn't?

And as for you, Menel, earlier you were all for suspecting Gwath but after hours of non-activity you came back, saying Gwath has a tendency to make suspicious comments regardless of his role, and attacking me because I changed my opinion on him. Why can you do it if I can't? I could accuse you now of flip flopping on Gwath, and vote for you, and my vote would be perfectly as just as yours for me.

Also, forget what I said about Nog not being a baddie because of Boro's death. As long as we don't know why there was just one kill (ie if the teams take turns in killing or if one team just refrained from killing for one reason or other) we can't be sure. It's still possible Nog's a baddie and it was the other team that's responsible for killing Boro.

Guilty
Menel worries me slightly but I acknowledge it is probably more due to his (in my opinion) irrational suspicion on me, plus I always find his playing style suspicious.
Ilya. Her comment that Bowie looks like he had a role was not a thing I would have expected an innocent to say. Just because it'd be dangerous for Bowie if he was, say, the seer. Also, her honesty is a thing that contributed to my suspicion on her in last game. Just because it'd be such a good cover for a newbie-ish baddie. Irrational I know but I can't help it.

Innocent
Eönwë
Gwathy. The amount of suspicion cast on him yesterday was more suspicious than his bear comment, and after that he's been looking quite innocent. Besides I take pride in being a rather good Gwolf-catcher :p, and he hasn't been giving off any baddie vibes thus far so I'm not worried about him.
Bowie is the one I feel the least confident about but I'm ready to consider him innocent as well.

Neither
Nog. Gah I just don't know. However one thing is sure: he didn't kill Boro.
**
Isabell
Kath
sally
Shasta

Also, I can tell you it's depressing to come online after sleeping like ten hours and having breakfast and doing all kinds of stuff to be met with just one post after mine...

[Kath]

Well hello! I'm just posting to say that I will be around toDay but won't have a chance to post properly until later in the day as we have lots of RL things going on. I will return though.

[Eönwë]

I'm not really going to be able to post much today, as I won't be around at the DL, but I'll reread the thread (all 3 pages!) and see what I can come up with.

[Strongbow]

Well, after Nighttime, I'd say that the only thing that really surprises me is the number of kills. Perhaps this is what Gollum was talking about when he said that the Bear was "modified"...that it could choose when it wanted to kill, and not kill. This is a very scary thought, because WHO KNOWS when the Bear could strike now?

Anyhow:

I think Ilya's reaction to me was a bit sketch. Quoting the doorman at Bree (is his name Harry? I can never remember.), eh? Wasn't he in league with Bill Ferny, the Southrons, the Ruffians, and eventually...the Ringwraiths? Hmmm...I'm looking at you, but not too hard.

Everybody else is really illegible right now. I don't think Menel's attack on you is unwarranted, Agan, but both of you be careful, and try not to get into a Wine in Front of Me scenario. (from The Princess Bride. If you need an explanation, just ask me.)

[satansaloser2005]

("But Doctor, where is your gorgeous time travelling assistant?")

I'm here! I'm here!



Sorry, madcap couple of days, but I'm here now and need to read over things. Should be back fairly soon! :)

[satansaloser2005]

Because, friend, the Werebear is the Serial Killer in other incarnations of our predicament.

Indeed. Also called a postal worker in some versions of Mafia, but Serial Killer is the best parallel. (I'm guessing someone plays on facebook.... ;))

Just got back from some christmas stealing and there's not too much doing on the thread? Already I miss Phantom and his hemorrhagic style of posting.

Thankee, Strongbow, for the werebear tip. Glad to see at least somebody's up to speed.

Christmas stealing? :p

I miss Phantom too. Though having a day and a half (as of now) over and only three pages to read is a relief, I must say it's a bit boring.

Agan - I wasn't accusing you. That was species-directed, not alignment directed. And yes, Bowie will suffice. :D You're correct in saying that I have played Werewolf before, although it was called Mafia, and the Werebear was the Serial Killer. That's the reason why the mechanics are so familiar to me. - No suspicion

Menel - No suspicion

Boro - My eye is on you, but just because I've seen you to be devious in the past. Not an open accusation. - Small suspicion

Gwath - I can't be sure of anything, but you don't trust me for my knowledge of the enemy. My eye is also on you, even more so than the Blue Wizard. - Suspicion

Brinn - My reasoning still stands. - Suspicion

All the others I have no call on for now.

Careful, love. As I'm well aware, suspecting someone just because you always have doesn't always pan out. Then again, that's a risk you take and with Boro it's well founded, the silly devious fellow that he is. (Rather, was well founded, I suppose, since he's dead. By the way, who the heck would choose Boro as their first night kill? I'll probably talk more about that later, but right now I'm just going through things so I'll hopefully come back to it)

I don't understand why Bowie (that makes me giggle, by the way, just saying) suspects Brinn. Granted, I have the added knowledge of knowing Brinn is innocent when I read everything, so I may be biased, but still.

I'm sure one of the reasons this Day has been so quiet is because several players haven't realised the game has started (and with a Day), and are too busy with RL holiday stuff to check the Downs. I don't think that'll point to any sort of guilt or innocence.

After last game, I won't be surprised if you all decide to lynch me early on. It's a good thing I don't have a special role. For once, I'm actually not the slightest bit worried. I'm just relieved to finally get to play without the pressure of being something other than ordo for the first time in 2 1/2 games.

I have to vote very soon, btw.

Yeah, I had no idea that the game had started either. I'm not going to throw out the first Day completely, but it was so hectic and I'm sure most of you lovely people were busy so I'm willing to overlook a few bits of insanity or randomness.

2 1/2 games? *confused face* Anyway, poor Brinn. Again, I don't see what was so off about her, and I'm truly sorry she was yesterDay's lynchee.

Well, after Nighttime, I'd say that the only thing that really surprises me is the number of kills. Perhaps this is what Gollum was talking about when he said that the Bear was "modified"...that it could choose when it wanted to kill, and not kill. This is a very scary thought, because WHO KNOWS when the Bear could strike now?

Anyhow:

I think Ilya's reaction to me was a bit sketch. Quoting the doorman at Bree (is his name Harry? I can never remember.), eh? Wasn't he in league with Bill Ferny, the Southrons, the Ruffians, and eventually...the Ringwraiths? Hmmm...I'm looking at you, but not too hard.

Everybody else is really illegible right now. I don't think Menel's attack on you is unwarranted, Agan, but both of you be careful, and try not to get into a Wine in Front of Me scenario. (from The Princess Bride. If you need an explanation, just ask me.)

That's very possible, Bowie. In most games I've played, the Serial Killer/Postal Worker is nto required to kill every night, but is given the opportunity to do so if they wish. Here's another theory though, cracked though it may be. What are the odds that the wolves and the Bear targeted the same person? Just putting that out for discussion.

Heh. For that reference you automatically win the game, I don't care whose side you're on. Ten minutes -I need to settle the details with Gollum- then the narration will come.

Anyway, no one's posted since my last post, at least no one had when I started this one. So if there's anything between my two posts, it's x'd. Enjoy!

[Aganzir]

Well, after Nighttime, I'd say that the only thing that really surprises me is the number of kills.
Out of curiosity, why aren't you surprised of Boro's death?

Anyhow:I don't think Menel's attack on you is unwarranted, Agan, but both of you be careful, and try not to get into a Wine in Front of Me scenario. (from The Princess Bride. If you need an explanation, just ask me.)

Well I do, but then again every time I'm accused while innocent, the reasons feel bad. And since the knowledge of my own innocence is usually all I have, I can start working from that basis. You never know when the one accusing you is in fact a wolf who needs to accuse innocents to ensure their own survival.
Also, I need an explanation. :p

I find it pretty awkward that deadline is in four hours and there has been nine posts from six people, three of whom just checking in.

edit: ooh xed with sally

[satansaloser2005]

I find it pretty awkward that deadline is in four hours and there has been nine posts from six people, three of whom just checking in.

edit: ooh xed with sally


Yeah, that worries me too.


Okay, Boro's death. Who would kill Boro? Agan, you're here, what are your thoughts my furry -erm, funny- little friend? ;)

[Aganzir]

By the way, who the heck would choose Boro as their first night kill? I'll probably talk more about that later, but right now I'm just going through things so I'll hopefully come back to it)
I would imagine it to be someone rather quiet (which applies to almost everyone in this village, at least thus far) who hasn't played much enough to learn to regard Boro as a precious jewel who plays way too seldom. :p
Or then it's someone who wants to bluff... But it's sure not to be Nog. He wouldn't do it even for the sake of bluff.

I don't understand why Bowie (that makes me giggle, by the way, just saying) suspects Brinn.
I can't speak for him, but I suspected her because her posting looked forced. Okay and maybe the idea that she deserved to be lynched also occurred to me... :p But it didn't contribute to my suspicions at all. Funny by the way that I should want to punish her for my own inability to catch her in last game.

What are the odds that the wolves and the Bear targeted the same person? Just putting that out for discussion.
Dang I knew I had forgotten something when posting my list of rhetorical questions at the beginning of the day, thanks sally. :p
I don't know about that though. Then we would need to find three people who agreed to kill him and it just doesn't compute. Or, well, maybe if they all thought he was the seer? I'm not sure how likely that is.

edit: xed with sally again

[Strongbow]

Okay, Wine in Front of Me is a logical fallacy, and is a situation of circular reasoning which wears out both parties involved. I'm going to paraphrase the situation (forgive me William Goldman/Rob Reiner):

The Man in Black has reached his third enemy (after defeating the blademaster Inigo Montoya and the Turkish strongman Fezzik), the evil Sicilian Vizzini, who has captured the Princess Buttercup. Vizzini has set up a picnic for TMiB, presumably to negotiate a price for the Princess. TMiB proposes another solution: he will poison one of the glasses, and Vizzini must choose which glass he will. Whoever lives gets Buttercup. Whoever dies...dies. Vizzini shifts in between faulty logic, eventually overthinking his predicament, and he begins to choose the wine in front of him, but then forces TMiB to look the other way, as he switches the glasses. After they drink, Vizzini laughs hysterically, revealing his deception. That is, until he drops dead. TMiB spent years building up a tolerance to the poison, and therefore he poisoned both glasses.

Moral of the story: don't overthink, Agan and Menel.

I know I'm x-ing with Agan, so I'm just going to say that if we had a descriptive death post, we might know how Boro was killed.

[Strongbow]

Out of curiosity, why aren't you surprised of Boro's death?


Because I wouldn't be surprised if any of us had died. I was honestly dreading my own death, for a while.

[Aganzir]

But werewolf is all about thinking and overthinking. ;)

[satansaloser2005]

Extremely quick thoughts, basically Boro-centric.

Aganzir: She might try to pull a bluff, but I think she would keep Boro around as long as possible.
Boromir88: He did it! A frame job, indeed!
Eonwe: It's....possible, I suppose.
Gwathagor: After last game, I think he would see the value of keeping Boro around, but if they're on opposite sides it would point to the opposite conclusion. I'd consider it, and since Boro's a fair opponent I would think Gwath's more than intelligent enough to get him out of the way as soon as he can.
Ilya, Izzy, Kath, and Menel: No idea. It's very possible that any of them could have killed him but I don't know.
Nogrod: Unless it's some sort of screwy mind game, no. Noggie would almost definitely want Boro to stick around, for entertainment value if nothing else.
Sally: Erm, I didn't do it. Duh.
Shasta: I know a few games ago he was a bit cross with Boro, so if he needed a night kill I think he may have chosen Boro first. Not to say that he's holding a grudge, but if your first night kill is someone you don't want to play with I would think Boro would be on Shasta's list.
Strongbow: Maybe random, but I don't think he'd have a specific reason to kill Boro. All in all Bowie may be our best bet, as he's not played with Boro before.


Point is, either Boro's death was random, a bluff, or a deliberate kill because of how Boro plays. Great. That tells us nothing. :rolleyes:

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, Wine in Front of Me is a logical fallacy, and is a situation of circular reasoning which wears out both parties involved. I'm going to paraphrase the situation (forgive me William Goldman/Rob Reiner):

The Man in Black has reached his third enemy (after defeating the blademaster Inigo Montoya and the Turkish strongman Fezzik), the evil Sicilian Vizzini, who has captured the Princess Buttercup. Vizzini has set up a picnic for TMiB, presumably to negotiate a price for the Princess. TMiB proposes another solution: he will poison one of the glasses, and Vizzini must choose which glass he will. Whoever lives gets Buttercup. Whoever dies...dies. Vizzini shifts in between faulty logic, eventually overthinking his predicament, and he begins to choose the wine in front of him, but then forces TMiB to look the other way, as he switches the glasses. After they drink, Vizzini laughs hysterically, revealing his deception. That is, until he drops dead. TMiB spent years building up a tolerance to the poison, and therefore he poisoned both glasses.

Moral of the story: don't overthink, Agan and Menel.


Moral of the story: Rocks fall, everybody (but Bowie) dies from lack of making Princess Bride references.

Bowie, if you did kill Boro, you made a mistake. If nothing else you always keep Boro around for the fun quotes.


Going to work in about an hour, and I don't think I want to risk getting on the internet there, so we'll see how I feel like voting then. I suppose it would help you all get a better read on me if I made a bit of a suspicion list, so I'll see what I can do, savvy?

[Aganzir]

Yeah sally I would most definitely keep Boro around longer, especially in this quiet a village.

I just find it pretty hard to see he was killed as a bluff. I think Nog's the only one who even could bluff by killing Boro, and he wouldn't do it this early. Unless maybe if he was like totally convinced Boro was the seer, which I don't think was possible.

Still, I wouldn't exclude the possibility he was considered the seer...

Anyway I'm not sure how much it helps that we discuss Boro's death over and over again. Well in lack of anything else... :rolleyes:

[Aganzir]

I don't know why and I can't put my finger on it, but sally makes me feel a bit uncomfortable. Somehow she reminds me of the cobbler-sally I've seen... But then again she's quite involved now which I don't think cobbler-sally was.

[satansaloser2005]

I don't know why and I can't put my finger on it, but sally makes me feel a bit uncomfortable. Somehow she reminds me of the cobbler-sally I've seen... But then again she's quite involved now which I don't think cobbler-sally was.

Well if it helps this is probably one of the last posts I'll make toDay. I felt guilty about not knowing the game was on yesterDay so I decided to have a posting party before I went to work.


Problem is, I don't know who to vote for. Everyone's either quiet or not that suspicious. Very frustrating.

[satansaloser2005]

I don't know why and I can't put my finger on it, but sally makes me feel a bit uncomfortable. Somehow she reminds me of the cobbler-sally I've seen... But then again she's quite involved now which I don't think cobbler-sally was.



P.S. There's not a cobbler in this game, is there?

(Sorry, I need to reread the admin thread because the game's not really explained all in one post, so I think I've missed a lot.)

[Aganzir]

Nope there's no cobbler unless it wasn't mentioned in the rules.

[satansaloser2005]

Wait, I don't think Menel would have killed Boro either. I remember him making a comment on the admin thread that he missed playing with him. Or something along those lines. Again, could be a bluff in-game, but I don't think so.


(Sorry, my mom called, so I'll just submit this and then get back to things and see what, if anything, I've missed.)


EDIT: x'd with Miss Agan. Thanks for clearing that up, love. Didn't think there was one, but I figured I'd missed it.

[Strongbow]

I don't think saying I would kill Boro just because I'm a newbie is a very good argument, sally. I don't think it's you trying to cast suspicion on me, I merely think it's a badly thought out argument. The only reason I can think of for Boro being rendered a lycanthropic or, um, bearly chewtoy is because he's so good.

[satansaloser2005]

I don't think saying I would kill Boro just because I'm a newbie is a very good argument, sally. I don't think it's you trying to cast suspicion on me, I merely think it's a badly thought out argument. The only reason I can think of for Boro being rendered a lycanthropic or, um, bearly chewtoy is because he's so good.


Sweetie, I said I thought you wouldn't have had a reason to kill Boro. It's just that since you made a bit more sense than, say, Noggie, Agan, or myself, who have played with him a bit and would probably keep him a bit longer. I don't suspect you, I just couldn't rule you out for the same reasons as everyone else.


Anyway, I need to go. I hate killing off someone who's not even posted much yet, but here goes.

++Ilya

As I said before, the louder people aren't as of yet striking me as suspicious, so I'm left to pick among the quieter members of the village. No, it's not because she's so quiet, but I'm sure if she spoke more I would have gotten a better picture of her and maybe not voted her. (Aka the guilty until you convince me you're innocent game.)

Off to work, so farewell, sweet Concord, erm, village!

[Aganzir]

Sally is being oddly resolute-looking... I don't know if that's because she didn't post yesterday and wants to take it back now, or because so few are talking, or something else. I'm probably not going to vote for her today but I'm keeping an eye on her.

I wonder if I should have a look at yesterday's voting.

Also, I texted Nog for a change and he told he isn't home right now but tries to make it here before deadline.

[Nogrod]

Hi!

Agan reminded me of the game - which I hadn't quite forgotten but have at the moment no chance to participate anyway...

That's just so non-me but no can do.

I'm at my mother's place having St. Stephen's day and the last bus went just by. I will have to take a taxi home and I'm not sure I can do it in time as the "party" is still going on - my mom, her boyfriend (aged 82) and my uncle are still having a good time... :)

But I do hope to get involved before the Day ends - and anyway toMorrow, if I'm alive that is.

[Strongbow]

I'm at my mother's place having St. Stephen's day and the last bus went just by.


Is St. Stephen's Day the same as Wren's Day? I can never remember.

[Kath]

Right, I'm finally here properly. I will have a look through yesterDay's posts, try and see why it was Brinn who was lynched, then have a think about why Boro was killed and then have a look at toDay's posts and vote. This will probably be done within about half an hour or so because my time is a bit limited!

I'll be back with some of those thoughts soon.

[Gollum the Great]

Sorry that I've been late (or early) for every DL so far, and I'm most likely to be late again today. Post-Christmas/family stuff if it's anything to you, and I can't sneak out of it for fear of my life *winks*.

[Aganzir]

Brinn (innocent): ++Agan
what better way for a werewolf to hide than to play a werewolf?
Since Brinn's dead I see no reason to analyse her vote.

Eönwë: ++Gwath
Hasn't seen anything that should change his opinion since his list post, which says as follows: Slightly suspicious
Gwath- For one, he asks for info on the werebear and then attacks the answerer. Granted, Strongbow is a newbie (to WW, but not Mafia), but I think he definately overreacted.
I think Eönwë had reasonable enough grounds to vote Gwath, although also Gwath looks quite innocent.

Bowie: ++Brinn (innocent)
Last standing, first down. And a little to open about her roleclaims.
I suppose I can't accuse anyone for voting Brinn as I was the first to bring her up as a possibility, but this looks maybe a bit too convenient. However I never know how I should react to newbies so I don't know what to make of this. Overall Bowie looks quite ok though.

Boro (innocent): ++Isabell
Sorry dear, this was a hat pull of the non-posters.
Somehow I doubt very much it was this that got Boro killed, especially as Isabell hasn't shown up at all. Hey Shasta do you think you could notify her that the game has started if she doesn't come soonish?
By the way, Gollum, do we have modfire?

Agan: ++Brinn (innocent)
I prefer her over others who have been voted.
Ie I didn't want to vote Gwath and refused to vote a non-show, plus I suspected Brinn a bit.

Nog: ++Brinn (innocent)
Well first he said she should be lynched just to be on the safe side. Already in his next post he considered voting Brinn or Ilya (of whom he had said nothing earlier), or someone from the Gwath-wagon. He would rather have voted Ilya but she didn't have enough votes.
I don't feel quite comfortable with Nog either, can't put my finger on it. Try to elaborate later. I'm not worried yet, though.

after deadline

Menel: ++Agan
I also don't like how Aganzir flip-flops on several different people (including Ilya). I get the sense that she is trying to cast suspicion on others, yet making it appear otherwise.
Hmm this has been discussed already, to some extent, and I won't repeat it all here. Except Menel hasn't told how I flip flop on Ilya and others (apart from Gwath), nor has he explained that suspicion casting thing. I am dull, I need examples. :p

Ilya: ++Brinn (innocent)
to just be sure there's no double-lynch...
Understandable but it feels somehow too convenient, too. She didn't seem to suspect Brinn at all, though, which makes me wonder a bit.

Gwath: ++Eönwë
out of principle and hurt feelings
Well what can I say? Gwath looks rather honest at least. Let's hope he and Eönwë won't be at each other's throats today, I don't think it's worth their while.

Non-voters:
Isabell
Kath
sally
Shasta
all of whom except Izzy have checked in later.

No vote strikes me as particularly suspicious, except maybe Bowie & Ilya's too convenient-looking votes. However they are both rather new so I don't know. I don't like Menel's vote either but that's maybe more because it was for me.

edit: xed with Kath (good to see you :)) and Gollum

[Gollum the Great]

By the way, Gollum, do we have modfire?


I was hoping to ask about that.

What is modfire?

[satansaloser2005]

I was hoping to ask about that.

What is modfire?

If someone doesn't vote for [mod determined number] days they are automatically killed.

[Aganzir]

A mod can decide that if a player doesn't post and/or vote for x (usually it's been two, I think) days, s/he's removed from the game.

edit: xed with sally

[Aganzir]

Oh also Gollum now that you're here, do we have double lynches? Also, did the seer get a dream already before the game started?

[Gollum the Great]

Oh also Gollum now that you're here, do we have double lynches? Also, did the seer get a dream already before the game started?

First one with the most votes in the event of a tie dies. We only started with 13 people, not enough for double kills. The seer did not dream about anyone before the game began.

[satansaloser2005]

First one with the most votes in the event of a tie dies. We only started with 13 people, not enough for double kills. The seer did not dream about anyone before the game began.



Well, that sucks.

(Sorry, short posts for the rest of the day. Sneaking the interwebs at work, precious)

[Aganzir]

Okay thanks.

I don't have practically any idea as for who to vote today... Menel is an option but I rather didn't do it, especially if he hasn't answered my questions by deadline. And he always gets killed early and I always suspect him and...

Another I might consider is Ilya, or maybe maybe maybe even sally who, on the other hand, talks more than Ilya.

[satansaloser2005]

Well, that sucks.

(Sorry, short posts for the rest of the day. Sneaking the interwebs at work, precious)

Btw, I was referring to the lack of dream, in case you couldn't figure that out, loves.


ETA: Where is everyone!??!!?:rolleyes:

[Kath]

Thoughts on yesterDay:

Aganzir - suspicious of Gwath for seeming suspicious of Strongbow. I disagree because from what I know of Gwath's posting style he is just a bit abrupt. I don't know if he'd still be like that as a wolf or if he'd be a bit more careful because he knows his usual style tends to get him lynched. Not convinced she's wolvish for suggesting it though, especially as she seemed to have thought it through quite a bit. Suspicion of Brinn for 'forced' posts. I didn't read them until she was dead and I knew she was innocent so I don't know whether I would have come to the same opinion, but I do often find that those who are innocent and simply have nothing to say can sound forced so I understand where Agan was coming from here. Says shouldn't mention if you think someone has a role if they're not a wolf, fair point. Recants what she said about Agan, makes me find her more suspicious that if she'd just admitted she was wrong.
Boromir88 - said he wouldn't kill Menel, some suspicion of Strongbow. Says Nog and Shasta not being there makes them innocent, I disagree entirely but maybe he was just trying to start conversation.
Brinniel - told us she wouldn't be around much and that her vote would be random. Makes her a very easy target on Day 1, possibly wolves in the bandwaggon against her. Voted Agan because she could be hiding in plain sight, it's as good a reason as any on Day 1.
Eonwe - bit like Brinn really, seems not to have anything to say but trying to be involved. Could be bemused innocent as she was but could be a wolf trying to fly under the radar. Seems that anyone who hasn't played with Gwath much found his earlier comments suspicious because Eonwe has found them so as well. His panic about the deadline seemed odd until I realised that he believed it to be an hour and a half earlier than it actually was and that only one person had voted at the time. Voted Gwath in the mistaken belief that he had to do it right then, given his earlier suspicions its a pretty consistent vote.
Gwathagor - helpful role list, innocent or bluffing question about the werebear?
Meneltarmacil - said Gwath accused Strongbow of being the werebear, I got the feeling that was a joke so maybe Menel is unfamiliar of his playing style or is a wolf jumping on the 'Gwath is suspicious' bandwaggon. I actually agree with him a little about Agan, she did seem to flip flop a lot.
Ilya - came up with pretty much the same ideas as everyone else during the Day up to that point. Maybe all the posts could only be read in one way because if she has a special role I wouldn't expect her to fit in to the crowd.
Isabellkya
Kath
Nogrod - arrives late with all the posts before him and seems to find nothing to say. He seems very pushed for time and not really involved which to me makes him seem innocent. Susicious of Ilya for having such a get out clause way of explaining her suspicion of Gwath. Said he could vote Brinn though hadn't realised seemed suspicious of her before then.
Sally
Shasta
Strongbow - suspicious of Boro for saying something but having no substance. Fair reasoning but it was Day 1. Suspicious of Boro, Gwath and Brinn - says his suspicious of Brinn is still due to earlier reasoning, did I miss that or did he actually not mention her? Something of a blase attitude to the whole thing, obviously enjoying it but sort of going 'nah nah nah nah' to anyone who suspects him. List post is a bit 'maybe this, maybe that' but I can't use that as suspicious as I think most of this post is the same.

About Boro:
Agan said she was suspicious but I think that was jokingly.
Boro said Agan was a werewolf and Gwath the werebear. He was clearly joking but it could make a good cover for either of those two killing him.
Strongbow was suspicious of Boro for having no substance.
Boro returned Strongbow's suspicion but seemingly with no reasoning.
Put Nog and Shasta in the innocent list, would give them a good cover for killing him though I agree that Nog would be unlikely to do that, or a chance for the wolves to try and set them up.
Thinks Agan and Menel were taking what Gwath said too seriously.
Said he thought Brinn was innocent, given that suspicion was pretty high against her the wolves may have thought he was the Seer and had dreamt about her given this comment.
Said he wouldn't go after Strongbow but that he wasn't putting him on the innocent list either.
"If you are trying to manipulate me so you can devour me at night, I must say it's working." - he says to Agan, could make it easy for her to kill him or again could be someone trying to set her up.
Says he now mistrusts Ilya and Menel.
Said might be willing to vote Ilya due to earlier mistrust, doubt anyone would try to set her up or that she would kill him, it seems too obvious.
Voted Izzy as had thought it likely there would be a wolf among the non posters.
Nog cross with him for a throwaway vote.

Brinn voters:
Strongbow (first) - for being too open about her roleclaims. Seemingly consistent suspicion though I still seem to have missed his original reasoning against her.
Agan (second) - prefers her to the others who have votes. Did seem to have been suspicious of most of the village during the Day but went back to her first suspicion for the vote. She couldn't vote Gwath after recanting her earlier suspicion, but did she only vote Brinn because she thought she would get nowhere with voting Ilya once Boro failed to do so?
Nog (third) - this is basically the end for Brinn and I think Nog knew it. He always wants his vote to count and knew he wasn't going to get anywhere with Ilya. I still think it's something of an easy vote though because I don't think he was truly that suspicious of her.
Ilya (fourth) - to ensure there was no double lynch, though I don't think those are possible anyway.

Right, I have 10 minutes of battery left and I'm out of time!

++AGAN

I've had no time to look through the posts from toDay for which I am sorry as it makes this vote based only on Day 1 information. Given everything I've said above I found her most suspicious really because of her going 'oh yes that was a deliberate trick' on the Gwath thing and switching around her suspicions a lot which feels odd to me from her. In addition I quite believe that she would be bold enough to kill Boro, especially after last game where he got her killed very early.

[Kath]

Oh just saw that Gollum said there had been no Day 1 Seer dream which makes some of my thoughts about Boro pretty much completely wrong. Will have to rethink that toMorrow.

[Aganzir]

About Boro:
Agan said she was suspicious but I think that was jokingly.
Yes.

Boro said Agan was a werewolf and Gwath the werebear.
I think it was more like in response to Gwath; "Gwath, the werebear is a deadly creature &c". I just found it funny because at first I thought he had meant it as "Gwath the werebear."

She couldn't vote Gwath after recanting her earlier suspicion, but did she only vote Brinn because she thought she would get nowhere with voting Ilya once Boro failed to do so?
If I had started to feel like voting Gwath later, I would have. However there was no reason that should have made me do that. I preferred Brinn because she was one about whom I had even some suspicions myself, not just what other people had first pointed out.

Also Kath Boro's getting me killed in last game didn't matter to me much because I understood his reasons and agreed with them, so that's a bad argument. And it would be possible to find a reason for each and every one of us to kill Boro so I don't know.

As for my flip flopping on Gwath, garr I don't want to start explaining this over and over again, I had some minor suspicions of him based on that bear comment but I don't suspect anyone seriously just because of some day 1 banter! My first day 1 suspicions (if I post early) are always as much attempts to get some talk than real suspicions that should lead to lynching!

[Aganzir]

So less than 15 minutes till deadline and only two votes (sally's for Ilya and Kath's for me). I agree it was alright yesterday to accept also votes that came late but I wouldn't extend that to today. Of course I'm not the mod but it'd be kind of fairer to count only those cast on time.

[Aganzir]

Is there really no one else around?

[satansaloser2005]

Ten til, at least according to my computer at work.


People, where are you?

Edit: 8 minutes

[Aganzir]

Okay I'm voting for

++Ilya

Because some good enough points have been brought up against her, and her vote was a bit odd, and because I don't want to start spreading the votes if this few have voted, it's this close to deadline, and I'm the other who has a vote.

[Aganzir]

It'll probably be a record if only three votes is cast in a village of 11...

[Strongbow]

++Ilya

I have been let down by my kin.

This, and I don't want to parrot the reasons of others. It isn't really a bandwagon, because she tried to say that I had a role, which endangered me. I'm not too happy about that.

[Ilya]

Hi all. Sorry I've been absent all day. The family offered no escape. :(

Also, her honesty is a thing that contributed to my suspicion on her in last game. Just because it'd be such a good cover for a newbie-ish baddie. Irrational I know but I can't help it.
Agan, I grant you my style is different, but I was innocent in that game, and I'm innocent in this one too. As to Bowie, yeah, calling attention to him is dangerous if he has a role, but I wanted to see if anybody would jump on the, "Hey, yeah, he's playing too smart for a newbie ergo he's being coached," train as Brinn and Morm and a whole bunch of others did to me last game. Nobody bit, alas.

Post-Boro, Agan's being the most vocal, and she's making a lot of sense, although something feels off and I think a Boro kill would line her up to control the conversation. Sally's tripped my radar, too, because of the assertion that Nog would never kill Boro. Why protect Nog like that? Menel and Bowie...I don't know. And everybody else is too scarce around here for me to form an opinion.

Gah. I hate this early deadline thing.

++Sally

Because I feel a gut suspicion of Sally, and I want to give Agan the benefit.

[Aganzir]

To be honest I think I've been defending Nog more than sally... But it's just that Nog doesn't kill vocal players who play seldom, who he likes to play with, if he just can avoid it, and he wouldn't kill Boro on night 1.

[Ilya]

Looks like I'm gone, then.

Strongbow: Dude, I wasn't trying to cast suspicion on you. Surely a fan of the Princess Bride understands the rational of distractions? A holocaust cloak and a cart (it's over the Albino, I think) can do wonders.

Agan: I defer to your knowledge of other players, but it seems a little dangerous to rule out people just because of their history, is all.

Everybody else: Good luck, gang. I'd look to the posters who are barely posting. Easy to lurk around the holidays and get away with it.

[Strongbow]

"For let it be known, that the hand that tries to strike us from this land shall be swiftly cut down." - Priest Vallon, Gangs of New York

Any and all who try to cast suspicion on me or try to hide, using me, will be met with retribution. Especially when they try to use me as their own holocaust cloak.

[Meneltarmacil]

Actually, when it comes to Agan, I think I wasn't interpreting her posts correctly regarding Ilya, thinking her "unsure but will reserve judgement" to "not particularly suspicious" was somehow flip-flopping. The constant suspicion of Brinn remains an oddity, however.

However, something else seems to have occurred to me. Could Gwath and Bowie both be traitorous? It may seem an odd idea, but I've known werewolves who have done this before. Perhaps this argument over the werebear was staged to give us the impression that they are not allies?

This would give Bowie the advantage of looking like an innocent victim while Gwath's aggression would appear to be the typical "Gwath being Gwath" thing, helping to shield him.

[Meneltarmacil]

Nobody else around? Well, as I don't know when the deadline is due to this strange schedule, I suppose I'll just vote now.

++Gwathagor

[satansaloser2005]

Nobody else around? Well, as I don't know when the deadline is due to this strange schedule, I suppose I'll just vote now.

++Gwathagor

For the record (not directing this post at you, Menel dear, but I figured I'd say it) the deadline is at 5 my time (it's now a little after 8:30). What that is in other time zones, I'm not sure. That way everyone knows though~! :)

In other news, I'd rather like to know what Ilya was, though by the way she talked after the deadline I'd say she's innocent. :(


Anyway, I think us all being silent now would be a good plan, as it's far past deadline. See you all in the Morning! (Hopefully!)

[Gollum the Great]

Shoot. I was detained far longer than planned. Ilya to be gone in a few minutes.

[Gollum the Great]

The second day proved even quieter than the first. Most of the Councilors sat glumly trying to grapple with the situation mentally, while few others held a debate. Eventually it looked like the Balrog Ilya was most suspected, but scarcely more than the rest of the gathering. Dismissal was chosen for his fate.

When night fell Ilya summoned his battalions of orcs and left for the East, never to return; he was thoroughly disgusted with the Council.

The enemies of the Council were acting well.

Alive:

Agan
Eonwe
Gwath
Menel
Isabell
Kath
Nog
Sally
Shasta
Strongbow

Dead/gone:

Boro
Brinn
Ilya (innocent)

[Strongbow]

Well, I think I'd like to hear a bit more from Shasta (I know the interwebs is on the fritz for him) and Isabell (don't know what is up with Isabell), and I'm having a hard time reading Kath and Nog because of the lack of contact.

Ergo, I will remain silent until there is more to say. However:

Gollum - who was torn apart in the Night?

Edit: For format!

[satansaloser2005]

Well, I think I'd like to hear a bit more from Shasta (I know the interwebs is on the fritz for him) and Isabell (don't know what is up with Isabell), and I'm having a hard time reading Kath and Nog because of the lack of contact.

Ergo, I will remain silent until there is more to say. However:

Gollum - who was torn apart in the Night?

Edit: For format!

I don't think the night's over. Or is it?

[Gollum the Great]

The night will be over soon; perhaps your clock is off Strongbow?

[Strongbow]

Maybe I was just insAaAaAAane.

Oops.

[satansaloser2005]

Maybe I was just insAaAaAAane.

Oops.

Hehe. Silence, precious. The night ends in 25 minutes. ;)

[Gollum the Great]

After a sleepless night spent mulling over the various issues, the Council gathered once again in the main hall. A terrible spectacle awaited them.

The chamber's one source of light, a huge iron lamp of sorts, hung in the centre of the room, over the table the Councilors sat at. And under this device, dangling from his own entrails, was Nogrod.

His eyes were burst from their orbits, his messy blood almost entirely coated him and the table, and his gaping jaw was smashed. And as the Council gazed incredulously at the gory spectacle a devil's voice laughed, but when they looked around they saw no one but themselves.


Luckily surviving:

Aganzir
Eonwe
Gwathagor
Isabellkya
Kath
Meneltarmacil
Sally
Shasta
Strongbow

Dead/gone:

Boro (inno)
Brinn (inno)
Ilya (inno)
Nogrod (inno)

[satansaloser2005]

Oh....my....

*looks at death list and lets her jaw drop to the floor*



(Back in a minute. Gonna do a quick vote tally, and I mean quick, as there weren't many votes.)

[Aganzir]

Just a quick post I'm at Lommy's.

Ack what's this thing. I'm not quite happy with two of the scariest loudmouths dying in a row (especially as Nog wasn't even around yesterday) and I can't see any reason why someone would want to kill them this early. In my opinion this would point at rather inexperienced (or quiet) wolves who want to get rid of the most dangerous players at first.

So did the bear still choose not to kill or do the wolves and the bear both get a kill every second night?

I find it alarming there's still two players who haven't posted (okay Shasta has net issues but just where's Izzy?).

However due to only one kill a night we're not that badly off now.

[satansaloser2005]

Votes from Day 1
Brinn-->Agan at 12:22pm
Eon-->Gwath at 3:48pm
Bowie-->Brinn at 4:50pm
Boro-->Izzy at 4:51pm
Agan-->Brinn at 4:57pm
Noggie-->Brinn at 5:00pm
Menel-->Agan at 5:06pm*
Ilya-->Brinn at 6:11pm*
Gwath-->Eon at 6:32pm*
Did not vote: Izzy, Kath, Sally, Shasta


Votes from Day 2
Sally-->Ilya at 2:24pm
Kath-->Agan at 4:31pm
Agan-->Ilya at 4:54pm
Bowie-->Ilya at 4:58pm
Ilya-->Sally at 4:58pm
Menel-->Gwath at 7:23pm*
Did not vote: Eon, Gwath, Izzy, Nog, Shasta

For those of you unfamiliar with my system, italicized villagers are known innocents and underlined villagers are known wolves, cobblers, bears, etc. Basically anyone bad.

*=vote did not count for some reason (e.g. past DL, improperly formatted, etc.)

Oh, and these are by my timezone, by the way. I'm too lazy to change them. The deadline for me is 5pm, so read the vote times accordingly.

EDIT: x'd with Miss Agan, and also added non-voters to my tally

[Aganzir]

I just realised (okay to be perfectly honest it was at least half Lommy's idea) the kills look like they were made not because of how the dead acted but what kind of reputation as players they have, what kind of impression someone gets about them when reading say old games or the grimoire, and suddenly Bowie jumps up on my suspicion list.

A newbie who's somewhat familiar to the game would just fit in there so nicely, especially if it was Shasta or Izzy who is the other wolf and he had to work alone for now.

Of course my theory is ruined if the kills are not made by the same team but apparently we can't know it.

[satansaloser2005]

I just realised (okay to be perfectly honest it was at least half Lommy's idea) the kills look like they were made not because of how the dead acted but what kind of reputation as players they have, what kind of impression someone gets about them when reading say old games or the grimoire, and suddenly Bowie jumps up on my suspicion list.

A newbie who's somewhat familiar to the game would just fit in there so nicely, especially if it was Shasta or Izzy who is the other wolf and he had to work alone for now.

Of course my theory is ruined if the kills are not made by the same team but apparently we can't know it.



It's possible. If you get rid of the most experienced players first, it would even out the playing field for, perhaps, a newer wolf team. I don't suppose Gollum would tell us if he handpicked or randomized the roles (and to be honest, I'd rather not know right now, as it would bias me a TON) but since Gollum is newer (at least to WW on here) it might have made sense for him to pick a couple newer players. At the same time, though, I'm not going to kill someone JUST because they're newer to the game and would fit the theory.

Why else would someone kill both Boro and Noggie, though? Perhaps an old opponent? As in, someone who is more experienced rather than less, and thus knows exactly how much of a threat those two can be. Still, though, I think someone's trying to make a statement by getting rid of the loudest players.

[Aganzir]

I'm not killing Bowie because of it but he's under more careful surveillance on my part from now on.

However I agree with you someone could be making a statement by killing off the loud players at first. Silent innocents have died first often enough. Not that there are much loud players around anymore though...

However I should probably start getting home soonish and let this poor creature whose computer I'm using sleep. See you in the morning.

[satansaloser2005]

I'm not killing Bowie because of it but he's under more careful surveillance on my part from now on.

However I agree with you someone could be making a statement by killing off the loud players at first. Silent innocents have died first often enough. Not that there are much loud players around anymore though...

However I should probably start getting home soonish and let this poor creature whose computer I'm using sleep. See you in the morning.

Heh. Night, love. Tell Lommie to have nice dreams involving lots of penguins. ;)

[Strongbow]

I just realised (okay to be perfectly honest it was at least half Lommy's idea) the kills look like they were made not because of how the dead acted but what kind of reputation as players they have, what kind of impression someone gets about them when reading say old games or the grimoire, and suddenly Bowie jumps up on my suspicion list.

A newbie who's somewhat familiar to the game would just fit in there so nicely, especially if it was Shasta or Izzy who is the other wolf and he had to work alone for now.

Of course my theory is ruined if the kills are not made by the same team but apparently we can't know it.

If I were covered in fur, why would I be confused as to when Night ended? Tut tut. You would think, with the way I search for knowledge, that I'd know such a thing as a Wolf or Bear.

[satansaloser2005]

If I were covered in fur, why would I be confused as to when Night ended? Tut tut. You would think, with the way I search for knowledge, that I'd know such a thing as a Wolf or Bear.

Could be a bluff.

Alternatively, if you were a wolf/bear you would want to be SURE you knew when the Night ended. And of course, you asked who died, so we could assume that you knew it wasn't you, since you asked.


Not that I'm necessarily saying that, but I'm just pointing out that the defense of "I don't know what's going on. I can't be guilty!" won't work.


I want everyone to start talking, dang it!

[satansaloser2005]

Well, wolves, I hope you're happy. An hour and a half of nothing. :(

[Kath]

Seriously, 5 people didn't vote yesterDay? I could understand it on Day 1 as there was a lot of confusion over whether the game had started, myself included, but on Day 2 after an extra long Night to help people catch up ... that's just mad. Even Nog didn't vote and he's usually one of the keenest to be around at the deadline. Have we heard anything from Shasta and Izzy at all? I would like to hear from those who didn't vote yesterDay, whether it was due to RL busyness or something else it would be good to know at least.

I'm on my way to bed so I won't post much now but right now I'm liking the look of sally. She is actually being helpful I think rather than talking a lot and trying to look helpful.

I'll be back in the morning (RL) with some more thoughts.

[satansaloser2005]

Seriously, 5 people didn't vote yesterDay? I could understand it on Day 1 as there was a lot of confusion over whether the game had started, myself included, but on Day 2 after an extra long Night to help people catch up ... that's just mad. Even Nog didn't vote and he's usually one of the keenest to be around at the deadline. Have we heard anything from Shasta and Izzy at all? I would like to hear from those who didn't vote yesterDay, whether it was due to RL busyness or something else it would be good to know at least.

I'm on my way to bed so I won't post much now but right now I'm liking the look of sally. She is actually being helpful I think rather than talking a lot and trying to look helpful.

I'll be back in the morning (RL) with some more thoughts.

....So I'm alone again?


Fabulous.

I think Shasta's internet's been funny the last couple days, but I don't know about the rest. I just wish people would talk. :(

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Hey guys.

I'd have posted this in the admin thread, but then I thought "Hey, it's Day, technically I'm still alive, so I'm allowed." :p

Anyway, the long and short of the deal is that internet at my house is extremely sporadic right now (I get, perhaps, five minutes a day if that) and it will continue until we get someone out here to fix it (which will be Monday at the very earliest). So, here's the thing. I realize I haven't been participating. If you think I should bow out and ask Gollum to modkill me, that's cool. If you're fine with me sticking around like Gil sort of did last game, that's fine too. I'm cool with either option.

Tell me what you think (of course, I can't guarantee I'll be able to read it until tomorrow).

[Gwathagor]

I'm sorry I missed yesterDay. I was out skiing.

There isn't a lot of discussion to work with yet toDay, so I'll just do some solo pondering.

I have the same question as Aganzir: why has there only been one kill per night thus far? I can think of only a couple different possibilities. Either the wolves or the werebear might be waiting to let the other party flush out the hunter - this seems more likely to be a werebear tactic, since time is on its side, whereas the wolves really have to kill as much as possible if they are going to win - particularly since there's only two of them. It's also possible that the werebear (I find it very unlikely that BOTH wolves could have forgotten their kill BOTH Nights in a row - at least one of them would surely be around to send in a kill choice to the mod) might have skipped its kills as a misdirection or through neglect. This makes the most sense to me. The bear is probably either someone like Shasta or Isabellkya, who I believe are the low posters so far, or someone trying to make us think it's Shasta or Isabellkya.

If this wasn't helpful to you, sorry. It was helpful to me.

[Meneltarmacil]

OK, so the traitors have killed Nogrod and Boromir88 thus far, which brings me to an interesting conclusion.

We have somebody who knows which innocents are troublesome and which aren't. Someone intelligent and experienced is probably working against us, driving us into confusion by hitting our best and brightest.

With this information, I find Kath to be the most capable of carrying this sort of plan out. She's been around many werewolf-plagued villages here and is likely familiar with people's playing styles. I don't have the time for it now, but later toDay I will look through her posts and put up an analysis of her behavior.

[Aganzir]

What about lynching sally today?

I think it might be worth a try, and even if she's innocent, we can afford it. I got this inexplicable bad feeling about her yesterDay when she started posting, and it just got worse in the Night. The way she was somehow controlling the discussion... A certain determination.

Shasta I'm fine with you playing.

Gwath, it's also possible that they take turns in killing but somehow the kills make me doubt it because it would mean there are three players who are fine with killing the loudmouths at first.

Menel, the killers needn't necessarily be experienced to kill off Boro and Nog. It's enough that they know even a little about everyone as players, which I suppose everyone does.

[Kath]

Is there any particular reason you would want to lynch sally apart from a bad feeling Agan? Because I'm getting pretty much the opposite feel on her so I'd like to know where your suspicion of her has come from.

Menel, I think your argument about someone with experience killing the wolves is a good one but I wonder how you ended up with me as a wolf when people like sally, Agan, Gwath and Shasta are also around and know the players just as well.

[Aganzir]

And there's also Eönwë who has played with probably all of us, and Bowie who hasn't played but gives the impression of being aware of what kind of players we are. And Izzy but I doubt she'd come to post a kill yet not be here in the day.

Kath it's mostly just a bad feeling about sally, but an exceptionally strong one, and I find it hard to concentrate on anyone else properly as long as sally is alive.

(Ooh by the way, lovely avvie sally. :D <3)

Okay I try to elaborate.

It's somehow the way sally was so keen on analysing Boro's death, and later also Nog's. Anyone could have done it; 'X would have had this reason to kill him but then again there's also this aspect...'
Point is, either Boro's death was random, a bluff, or a deliberate kill because of how Boro plays. Great. That tells us nothing.

And her resolution. I know she's one of the few who are being loud but still, it looks weird.

Garr I just don't know. Something in her feels wrong but I can't put my finger on it, just can't.

[satansaloser2005]

Well, sweetie, there's not terrible lots to talk about.


I just can't do anything right in these games, can I? :(

[Aganzir]

Sally you do, I just can't help this. It's irrational.

And with loud players dying one by one I'm not sure how much I like the idea of lynching you... However right now I feel you're my best bet.

Sorry I haven't been posting anything but currently my post count is almost twice that of anyone else's and I don't have the energy to go through the thread once again.

[satansaloser2005]

Heh. Obviously I must not, or else I wouldn't get suspected all the time. I honestly don't mind people suspecting me -really, I don't, it's part of the game- but I don't like that I'm usually suspected for no reason. Either I'm too useless or I run my gob too much. Either way I'm screwed. Bah, when life gives you lemons....you analyze werewolves! :smokin:


Shasta, I'd hate to see you withdraw, especially since you're not being able to play at the moment is beyond your control. If you feel that it would be better for you to leave the game, then do so, but barring that I look forward to playing with you again when your internet connection's fixed. (Assuming we're both still alive, of course. ;))



I don't really have much of a main suspect toDay, sadly. Agan doesn't strike me as too off and Kath, though quiet like everyone else, isn't screaming 'WOLF!' to me either. And I'd hate to kill Bowie just to try to validate a theory.



I need to get ready for church. I'll come back to my thoughts later.

[Eönwë]

Sorry about not being here properly yesterDay. My internet died while I did have time, and then I had to go due to family-RL stuff.

I'll look at the posts so far... (not very many since I last posted, it seems)

[Kath]

I understand those inexplainable feelings Agan and it is difficult to concentrate on others when you have those bad feelings, but even if sally is a wolf she is only one of two. Given that I don't think she's a wolf it would make me feel better about you if you could maybe look at some other people, or even how others have interacted with sally to try and find evidence for her possible wolvishness that way. I'm sorry I don't meant to throw instructions at you but like you said you are one of our remaining loud players and we need you!

I missed Gwath's post earlier and reading it through just now it does seem a little odd. I agree that if either the wolves or the bear is actually failing to kill then it is more likely to be the bear as I doubt both wolves are missing in action. However, from what I know of the werebear role it has the choice of whether to kill or not so I don't think that the lack of kills on that front point to an absent player. In addition I would actually think that the bear is an experienced player who actually wants to win as the bear. A lot of the time evil creatures get caught in these games via the Nightly kills, an experienced player would know that and might be letting the wolves do all the work in the hope that they get caught and then the bear can just walk off with the victory.

[Strongbow]

Well, here's my piece (and my 100th post!):

I am suspect because I know how people act, and I said I was suspicious of Boro early on, which leads some to believe that my partner might be one of our absentees. Well, to prove my innocence, I'm willing to vote for myself in the event that more suspicion falls on me. Wolf gambit? You decide. If I do end up being lynched, please write me a good suicide scene Gollum.

Before I move on, I'd like to say that in my experience, the posting fillerish things without contributing to discussion is a tactic used by the enemy, to say "Oh! I'm active, don't kill me! I'm active, so I must be innocent!" Because of the general lack of substance, I can't tell if this is just being idle, or being sinister. I do not post just for the sake of posting. I post to make serious analysis. If this reduces my overall post count, so be it.

Agan, in her last post, tries to validate herself by saying that she has double everyone else's posts, when I feel that a few of those are not entirely necessary. This being said, I'm not feeling with overt strength that she's furry, but I'm not neglecting the possibility.

Sally isn't very much better. I don't really see the use in posting vote counts at this stage, because of the general lack of votes. I can't be sure if it's a ploy to legitimize yourself, but I'm not going to point any fingers until I see more...anything, really.

Gwath's post doesn't add anything very earth shattering, and doesn't really pique my curiosity.

Kath is starting to get reception, but I can't get a reading.

Menel, are you there? You post little, and when you do, it isn't much. Hmmm...

Eonwe is my kin, but isn't saying anything worthy of note. Yet.

Isabell and Shasta are obviously off our radar.

Edited for format.

[Gwathagor]

Well, here's my piece (and my 100th post!):

I am suspect because I know how people act, and I said I was suspicious of Boro early on, which leads some to believe that my partner might be one of our absentees. Well, to prove my innocence, I'm willing to vote for myself in the event that more suspicion falls on me. Wolf gambit? You decide.



Aah I hate stuff like this, because it forces other players to take you on faith. In no way does it "prove" your innocence and I'm pretty sure that even in a game like this, where nothing is certain, you could come up with more substantial evidence or support of your innocence.

[Strongbow]

Sure it does. If I am dead, my alignment is revealed.

[Gwathagor]

And at which point, the firm proof of your alignment will be of no use to you in your efforts to establish your innocence.

[Strongbow]

And at which point, the firm proof of your alignment will be of no use to you in your efforts to establish your innocence.

And you realize your mistake in killing me in the first place. I think it very poor taste not to take my threat seriously.

As you said, nothing is certain, and it is virtually impossible for anyone to prove their innocence.

Edit: Except in death, my friend.

[Meneltarmacil]

I've gone through Kath's posts, sparse as they are. The only one of substance was near the end of Day 2, and aside for some strangeness in backing me on my misguided ideas about Aganzir, I can't find anything that jumps out as suspicious. She does have a good point toDay about other experienced parties; I'd forgotten just how long they'd been around due to my long absence.

[Gwathagor]

And you realize your mistake in killing me in the first place. I think it very poor taste not to take my threat seriously.

As you said, nothing is certain, and it is virtually impossible for anyone to prove their innocence.

If I did not take your threat seriously, I would have paid it no attention. It is indeed impossible to prove anything absolutely, but it is possible to establish varying levels of likelihood. This is preferable to gambling, and asking players to take you on faith isn't really very expedient, particularly if you are just going to kill yourself when they don't believe you. In that situation, nobody wins.

[Strongbow]

If I did not take your threat seriously, I would have paid it no attention. It is indeed impossible to prove anything absolutely, but it is possible to establish varying levels of likelihood. This is preferable to gambling, and asking players to take you on faith isn't really very expedient, particularly if you are just going to kill yourself when they don't believe you. In that situation, nobody wins.

Except the werewolves.

I'd like to call your attention to something: all you did was say that the idea is silly...however, you did not outright tell me not to do it. I'd like to know: why?

[Eönwë]

There isn't really much I can say about other people, as I'm feeling the same way about most of them. Just two things to note:

-Aganzir- She was starting to look more suspicious in my mind, but if she really is seriously considering voting Sally then I think she's innocent, as she will be only loud player left (other than Strongbow), and people will start looking at her more closely (there's not really much of a choice).

-The Gwath-Strongbow thing. I assume it was just because Gwathagor was the only one there at the time. And because we have such quiet days, people are just picking (pecking probably fits it better) at any little thing others have said until it starts getting a little violent. And then they suddenly stop. So I'm not suspecting any of you much more, but Gwathagor stays where is on my suspicion list (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=578652&postcount=48)and Strongbow goes down two- I'm looking at you more carefully now.

edit: I do think Gwath has a point, though- he just overreacted a little.

Just clarifying and fixing spelling mistakes

[Aganzir]

I honestly don't mind people suspecting me -really, I don't, it's part of the game- but I don't like that I'm usually suspected for no reason.
Trust me I know the feeling.

Kath, I don't know why but I think sally reminds me more of a bear than a wolf... And I know I should go find some evidence but it's difficult because this is so irrational. Well let's see what I can do while I'm here.

Bowie it was just a theory. If you're ready to vote yourself because of it, you're overreacting.

Also, since your comment about players saying they're active ie innocent was quite clearly directed to me, I ask you to point out where I've used my activity as an argument for my innocence. I have used it as an argument for not bothering to post but that's all. Certainly not everybody but too many are so quiet it feels a bit frustrating to sit online the whole day.

In my experience here on the Downs posting much nonsense doesn't help give an active impression. It requires some actual substance.

Also, for one posting only serious analysis you have surprisingly many two-liners, Bowie. I don't like being accused of posting not entirely necessary posts by someone who isn't that much better off himself.

In sally's defence I must say she always posts the vote counts. They can be useful if someone bothers to take a look, or then not.

I agree with Gwath about Bowie's threat. We have two options: either to take your word on it and trust in your innocence, or actually lynch you to check. If you don't have that much suspicion against you it's not very likely we bothered to lynch you yet. So no I'm not taking your threat seriously. You could be bluffing very very easily.

[Gwathagor]

I'd like to call your attention to something: all you did was say that the idea is silly...however, you did not outright tell me not to do it. I'd like to know: why?

I did tell you that I thought you could produce some better evidence of your innocence if you tried. That ought to suffice.

[Aganzir]

Why should Gwath have told you not to do it?

[Strongbow]

Trust me I know the feeling.

Kath, I don't know why but I think sally reminds me more of a bear than a wolf... And I know I should go find some evidence but it's difficult because this is so irrational. Well let's see what I can do while I'm here.

Bowie it was just a theory. If you're ready to vote yourself because of it, you're overreacting.

Also, since your comment about players saying they're active ie innocent was quite clearly directed to me, I ask you to point out where I've used my activity as an argument for my innocence. I have used it as an argument for not bothering to post but that's all. Certainly not everybody but too many are so quiet it feels a bit frustrating to sit online the whole day.

In my experience here on the Downs posting much nonsense doesn't help give an active impression. It requires some actual substance.

Also, for one posting only serious analysis you have surprisingly many two-liners, Bowie. I don't like being accused of posting not entirely necessary posts by someone who isn't that much better off himself.



I overreact because I am absolutely innocent. I am aggressive because I am absolutely innocent. I will continue to be aggressive and will continue to overeact until I am lynched or nightkilled. I am not going to pull any punches when it comes to suspicion towards me.

The "active therefore innocent" comment is not directed at you, and I'm sorry that it came out that way. :( It is me merely being purist about that sort of thing. (Where I first played mafia, you couldn't wish the mod a happy birthday without being accused of lurking and being in the mafia. In fact, I was lynched once because of it.) If I stepped on your toes, Agan, I'll put Band-Aids on them myself.


x'd with Gwath and Agan

[Aganzir]

GUILTY
sally. I'm so sorry dear, I can't help this.

INNOCENT
Gwath is the one I'm actually feeling the best about for the time being.
Eönwë is the other one. I'm not quite as sure as with Gwath but I find no reason to be worried about him either.
Menel looks rather innocent again now that the flip flopping issue was cleared.

NEITHER
Kath. I seem to disagree with her on so many things I can't trust her but I'm not willing label her as Guilty yet, though. I might want to check her posts later.
Bowie. Earlier he seemed innocent enough but I don't know anymore. He's somehow a bit jumpy to defend himself, and his last suggestion to vote himself really looked overreactive to me. I don't know how much I should put down on his relative newness but he's one I might consider voting for later on.
Shasta. I have nothing against keeping him alive. However if your net doesn't get fixed soon is there any chance you could use computer in, say, a public library?
Izzy. Dunno what should be done with her. If she's not the bear, is there any chance the bear would want to be nice and just kill her off, at least if there's no way we could get a word to her? I suppose our hunter is normal in the way s/he doesn't have any special killing abilities unless s/he's attacked?

edit: xed with Bowie

[Strongbow]

Why should Gwath have told you not to do it?

To avoid a strawman fallacy.

[Aganzir]

No problem, I just interpreted it that way because no one else had been talking about their activity recently. Besides I wouldn't have been offended by it, I just wouldn't have liked that kind of argument against me. :p

You could also overreact & be aggresive because you're guilty. There's no way we others can know it. Also, if you're innocent, the best way you can help find the baddies is not making everyone concentrate on you.

[Aganzir]

By the way I just realised ordos are a minority now... There's nine (or seven or eight, however you wish) people alive, two of whom wolves, one bear, and two gifteds.

I try to read through the thread yet again and see if I can find anything that should make me suspicious of sally. Then I want to look through Kath's posts if I only have time.

[Strongbow]

No problem, I just interpreted it that way because no one else had been talking about their activity recently. Besides I wouldn't have been offended by it, I just wouldn't have liked that kind of argument against me. :p

You could also overreact & be aggresive because you're guilty. There's no way we others can know it. Also, if you're innocent, the best way you can help find the baddies is not making everyone concentrate on you.

I don't think your activity is a ploy, and that'll come through in a list post, which I'll do...soon? :D

What you may not understand is that I am trying find baddies. I'm drawing them out, to see how they reason through my un-reason. Because that's the only way we're going to be able to find them, especially in a quiet game like this. To make ludicrous, outlandish statements to see how others react to them. I have a feeling that someone might have bitten, and it was Gwath who did - he reacted in a way I did not expect. I could not trap him, and he passes that test. Now, I have to spend some time thinking up another Mad Hatter scheme and see who'll bite this time.

(I'm still serious about the self-lynch though. Don't push me too hard.)

x'd with Agan

[Aganzir]

But it's also a possibility you have to bear in mind that an innocent reacts to something weird. Especially in this quiet a village where it may be hard to find some concrete evidence it's too easy to start grasping at straws. Besides, had I been here, I would have reacted pretty much the same way as Gwath.

[Aganzir]

Shame on you whoever killed Boro, reading through day 1 made me miss him! :mad::p

Anyway if anyone mentioned sally on day 1, it was just stuff like 'where is she?'.

Ha now I actually remembered one thing I had against sally. The seeming randomness of the kills. I can remember an evil sally killing whoever she wants without really caring what they are, killing more on principle than because of what the dead have done during the day. That would fit at least the Nog kill, and to some extent also Boro.
This was the first actual thing that made me suspect sally but then I forgot all about it.

Apart from me, the only one who actually mentioned sally yesterday was Ilya, who said she found her assertions that Nog wouldn't have killed Boro weird. I think she had sally more or less mixed up with me there because I kept saying it much more than sally.

I repeat it once again, but sally seems to be making too much of an issue about the kills. I mean, there are dozens of different options so I'm not sure how much speculation helps us solve anything. However if I speculate myself, I do it mostly just to get my head cleared so I'm not sure how valid a reason that is.
Why else would someone kill both Boro and Noggie, though? Perhaps an old opponent? As in, someone who is more experienced rather than less, and thus knows exactly how much of a threat those two can be. Still, though, I think someone's trying to make a statement by getting rid of the loudest players.

Today the only one who talked about sally before me was Kath who said she was liking her for now because she actually looked helpful instead of trying to look helpful.

I don't know if I'm just getting paranoid but if sally's a wolf, Kath might be one as well. Because of their interaction. Because of how Kath tries to explain why she wants me to give reasons.
Is there any particular reason you would want to lynch sally apart from a bad feeling Agan? Because I'm getting pretty much the opposite feel on her so I'd like to know where your suspicion of her has come from.

I just can't do anything right in these games, can I? :(
I'm not overly fond of the look of this comment. If sally's a wolf this would be a reasonable thing to say; it might scare off some suspecters. An innocent sally could say it as well though if she was tired of getting suspected for no reason, but it doesn't change the fact that I don't like it.

Sally you know that I'm going to be terribly awfully sorry if we lynch you now and you turn out to be innocent.

After suspicions against sally had started to pop up, Bowie made a nicely empty statement about her:
Sally isn't very much better. I don't really see the use in posting vote counts at this stage, because of the general lack of votes. I can't be sure if it's a ploy to legitimize yourself, but I'm not going to point any fingers until I see more...anything, really.
So he can decide later if he wants to vote for her or not and can justify his decision based on that post.

Okay so that's it. Quite little interaction with sally. I still couldn't find anything more in her posts that looks very suspicious to me. It's just the feeling.

But don't worry; Lommy once said (when talking about Nog) that when a player gets too good, the only way to spot them is the bad feeling since they rarely leave any obvious wolf traces anymore.

[Meneltarmacil]

I don't really know what to make of sally, but I have noticed an odd tendency in her posts to mention, repeatedly, that she has no idea who the baddies may be. Possibly that Evil Sally can't find anything with which to trip up the innocent, so she just tries to post a lot in order to seem eager to help.

I'm really getting some negative vibes about the arguments between Gwathagor and Strongbow. Their antagonism started early, and over a joke at that. They may well be wolves, making up this disagreement to avoid impressions of being allies. However, between the two, I think Bowie's overdefensiveness makes him the more suspicious one, so

++Strongbow

[Gollum the Great]

Dl in about an hour.....

[Gollum the Great]

DL in 35 minutes and I only have one *beeeeeeeeeeeeeeep* vote! Anybody home?!?!?

Edit: I hope no one was offended....

[Aganzir]

Yeah I'm writing a post.

Currently I think I'm going to vote sally though...

[Gwathagor]

To avoid a strawman fallacy.

Well, I'm lost now, but I won't press the issue. I am inclined to think that Strongbow is simply an overzealous innocent rather a wolf/bear making a bold bluff. First, he has a tone of righteous irritation that I recognize from some of my own posts of the past, and so I guess I feel some sympathy (as much as I dislike his tactics). Second, I don't think a relatively inexperienced wolf would be quite so prepared to put their neck right on the line as Strongbow has done. A seasoned wolf/bear wouldn't think twice about it, I suppose - ok, wait, I guess he has played Mafia, so maybe he's not as green as I'm painting him. Huh. It doesn't matter, though, I am not going to vote him until I've seen something more substantial.

[Aganzir]

My opinion about Kath will probably pretty much depend on sally's role.

Kath, what gave you the impression I had thought the Gwath/Bowie thing through well?
Also, how did I seem to flip flop apart from changing my opinion about Gwath?
Why did you think that Nog's failure to look involved pointed at his innocence? I think he's equally involved whatever his role, given he has enough time.

"If you are trying to manipulate me so you can devour me at night, I must say it's working." - he says to Agan, could make it easy for her to kill him or again could be someone trying to set her up.
I fail to see how someone could be trying to set me up. Just how could that comment point at me killing him?

I think Gollum told there had been no dream before the game started only on day 2 so the wolves could well think Boro was the seer. Therefore it shouldn't make your thoughts about him wrong.

Kath's attitude towards sally makes me think that if sally's a wolf, Kath might be as well. However even if sally's not a wolf, I find it possible that Kath is one, although then it seems less likely. I don't know.

Apart from this I can't make much of Kath's posts. It's mostly the interaction with sally... See what I mean if I say it's hard to concentrate on anyone else properly as long as sally is alive?

[Aganzir]

Okay I'm voting now.

++sally

I'm so sorry if you're innocent now and I don't feel good doing this but I just can't help suspecting you. I have no serious suspects apart from you and I feel so much will depend on your role.
I'm sorry even if you're a wolf/bear because I know on experience how frustrating it is to be suspected from the very beginning without any reasons but a bad feeling.

[Gollum the Great]

You've got a grand total of 15 minutes.

I've got a grand total of 2 votes.

[Aganzir]

Eek a quick count.

There's nine of us. If we lynch an innocent today and an innocent dies in the night, tomorrow it's four innocents, two wolves and the bear. If also the bear chooses to kill, well... Three and three in the worst case.
Although on the bright side there are still the gifteds...

[Aganzir]

Oh gosh I really wouldn't approve of Bowie getting lynched with one vote now!

[Kath]

Kath, what gave you the impression I had thought the Gwath/Bowie thing through well?
What, yesterDay? I suspect it was because you came to the same opinion as me, that Gwath didn't actually suspect Strongbow.

Also, how did I seem to flip flop apart from changing my opinion about Gwath?
I think that was the only time I thought that you'd switched opinion, it just seemed a very sudden change when I was reading through which is why it jumped out at me. It was also the way you phrased it, I've never been a fan of 'oh yes it was a plan all along' which seemed to be what you were saying.

Why did you think that Nog's failure to look involved pointed at his innocence? I think he's equally involved whatever his role, given he has enough time.
I believe a wolvish Nog would fight for a win.

Oh flip I didn't see the time!

++AGAN

Basically because she's the only person I've found anything suspicious in. The switch on Gwath yesterDay, the fact that I disagree with her about so many things.

[Kath]

Bum I think that was a throwaway vote, I didn't realise it was only between sally and Strongbow.

[Aganzir]

I usually don't consider trying to get some talk a plan. I said it was more of an attempt to get talk than an actual suspicion, ie I wouldn't vote Gwath because of some day 1 beginning banter. I'm getting tired of repeating this you know.

[Gwathagor]

Ok, folks.

Well, I was about to vote Isabellkya with the reasoning that she's probably the bear, but then it occurred to me that the bear could just as easily be another player trying to cast suspicion on the less involved players by not killing. So never mind.

[Aganzir]

Gwath if you're undecided could you please vote sally, I don't know what I'm going to do if I have to concentrate on her still tomorrow.

[satansaloser2005]

Three options.


Agan: Still think she's innocent, but definitely misguided

Sally: Right. Like I"d nilp myself.


So....and I'm sorry honey.....


++Bowie

[Gwathagor]

I

What you may not understand is that I am trying find baddies. I'm drawing them out, to see how they reason through my un-reason. Because that's the only way we're going to be able to find them, especially in a quiet game like this. To make ludicrous, outlandish statements to see how others react to them. I have a feeling that someone might have bitten, and it was Gwath who did - he reacted in a way I did not expect. I could not trap him, and he passes that test. Now, I have to spend some time thinking up another Mad Hatter scheme and see who'll bite this time.


Oh wow, I just saw this. Interesting.

[Eönwë]

I don't really want to vote Sally or Strongbow, as the Day's are quiet enough as they are, but with Gwathagor being the only other option for me (and I want to see more of him before I pass judgement I'm thinking that maybe they're the only way to go.

ok,

++Sally

edit: No! No! My clock is off!

[Gwathagor]

Gwath if you're undecided could you please vote sally, I don't know what I'm going to do if I have to concentrate on her still tomorrow.

I'm sorry, I don't suspect her! I can't do it. Heck, right now, the closest thing I've got to a suspect is Isabellkya, who I think is the bear. And even that's a case that's full of holes.

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, so I was away and not able to read a whole lot of the latest posts, for which I apologize. Fortunately I didn't die toDay, so (hopefully) I'll be around toMorrow to help.


Again, Bowie, I'm sorry, but I wasn't going to widen the vote scope any further, it's just not right, and of the three of us you were my best choice. If you're innocent I'm truly sorry. (But I hope you're not. :D)

[Aganzir]

I don't know if these still count but if they do could you Gwath please vote sally

edit: xed oh well

[satansaloser2005]

I don't know if these still count but if they do could you Gwath please vote sally

edit: xed oh well

Agan dear, the Day is over. And I'm not dead. I hate to disappoint you, but I plan on staying around for a while longer. (As long as the wolves don't kill me, anyway)

[Aganzir]

It's just that if both sally and I are still alive tomorrow, it's going to be pretty much wasted for me as I'm just after her all the time...

[satansaloser2005]

It's just that if both sally and I are still alive tomorrow, it's going to be pretty much wasted for me as I'm just after her all the time...

Then concentrate on someone else, love. Or at least come up with something better than 'she feels funny, everyone KEEL her!' That's all I ask.

[Aganzir]

Sorry I just can't. I can't help this. :(

[Gollum the Great]

Stop posting. Just a few minutes...

[satansaloser2005]

Sorry I just can't. I can't help this. :(

It's okay. Happens to the best of us.

*hugs you*

Now then, it's time for all the good children to be 'sleeping' so Master Gollum can tell us what our dearly departed Bowie did in his spare time.


EDIT: x'd with the modly one. Sorry!

[Gwathagor]

Well...looks like I'm not voting toDay. :rolleyes: I apologize for not being able to make up my mind.

[Gollum the Great]

And at the conclusion of the third day, The Balrog Strongbow was selected for elimination. He jumped upon the council table and whirled his whip around, and the flaming streaks seemed to form alphabetical characters in the air. He snorted black and red bolts from his nose drew his spiked mace.

"I cannot read the fiery letters," said Aganzir in a quavering voice.

"No," said Strongbow, "but I can. They run in an ancient script from years past, designed by Gothmog Lord of Balrogs. This is a rough translation: 'I can't believe you let a good Balrog down.' Our version is, as you probably know, is much more refined and more interesting. And now," he continued, as Gwathagor twitched a little nervously and Sally, Eonwe, and Meneltarmacil stepped forward, ready for combat, "for a little action."

He brought the mace down on Meneltarmacil's head, stunning the dragon but not piercing the scales. Simultaneously he made leap for the gateway and curled the thongs of his whip about Eonwe's ankles, causing him to fall. He began to run down the passage to the exit, but a blur of grey flew through the room and landed on his back. Aganzir tore out the back his neck and lava-ized blood spurted about in great quantities. The wolf dropped to the stone floor and rolled over and over, putting out the inevitable fires in his fur.

"I hope I did well," gasped Aganzir.

"You have not done so," choked out Strongbow, somehow surviving, "but I do not think you are a traitor. Few in your place would risk a deed like that for the Council out of hate or fear or inducements even from a master as powerful as the one here...."

And the loyal Balrog expired.


Living:

Aganzir
Eonwe
Gwathagor
Isabellkya
Kath
Meneltarmacil
Sally
Shasta

Dead/gone:

Ilya (inno)
Nogrod (inno)
Boro (inno)
Brinn (inno)
Strongbow (inno)

[Gollum the Great]

As the Council met for the fourth time, a captain of the guard awaited them with an unfortunate story.

As he was on his night watch, the orc observed the Dragon Meneltarmacil exit his lair and sneak in the direction of another Councilor's chamber (which particular one, the guard could not recall). After Meneltarmacil had spied on this person and muttered; "So, he is no traitor," two dark forms had appeared suddenly, silently behind him and skewered him with long, dripping blades, and then they carried the body back to his cave.

And so the remains were discovered. Two heavy, iron blades doused with venom were thrust through body, and the dragon's secrets were lost.

Alive:

Aganzir
Eonwe
Gwathagor
Isabellkya
Kath
Sally
Shasta

Dead/Gone:

Boro (inno)
Brinn (inno)
Ilya (inno)
Menel (seer)
Nog (inno)
Strongbow (inno)

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, since the dead aren't being posted in chronological order, I'm getting all messed up. Sorry, I know, I'm a dork, but I'm going to post the conventional way so I'll have it as a reference. Please excuse my idiocy. *big ditzy grin*

Dead:
Brinn (innocent) [Day 1]
Boro (innocent) [Night 1]
Ilya (innocent) [Day 2]
Nog (innocent) [Night 2]
Bowie (innocent) [Day 3]
Menel (seer) [Night 3]


Okay, with that out of the way I'm going to go look at our dearly departed Menel's posts.

[satansaloser2005]

Oh, and am I correct that neither Gwath nor Shasta will be in toDay? Because if so that leaves Kath, Agan, Eon, and myself, as Izzy hasn't shown up all game. This concerns me. Seriously, guys, not to be a jerk but look at the post count.

Agan: 64
Sally: 32
Bowie: 30
Gollum: 20
Boro: 17
Gwath: 17
Eön: 15
Noggie: 12
Kath: 10
Menel: 9
Brinn: 5
Ilya: 5
Shasta: 1
Izzy: 0

The italicized players aren't even alive anymore (or they're the mod lol) but most of the dead players have more posts than the living members. I know a lot of you guys are busy or are having internet trouble, but it still worries me.

EDIT: Obviously I'm going to have 33 posts now, not 32, but I'm lazy. Now onto other things.

[Aganzir]

Ouchouchouch. :(

Obviously the wolves are better than me because I didn't spot Menel. Maybe because I kept myself too busy trying to look like the seer myself.

So it's two wolves, bear, hunter, and three ordos now, and probably only four are getting online today. It makes it more difficult for us that we can't find out Izzy's role (is there any chance she be modfired?), or Shasta's (as long as he can't play) so we don't know how many baddies we actually need to find or how bad our situation really is.

I am the hunter.

Thought you could do with one known innocent now.

I'm dead tired so I apologize and go to sleep without being of any help. I'm also not sure how much online time I can find tomorrow as I'm seeing a friend I don't meet very often, but I'll try to be here as long as I can.

I'm still rather suspicious of sally and still for no reason.

[satansaloser2005]

I am the hunter.

Thought you could do with one known innocent now.


I thought so~! (Well, I thought you were innocent anyway. Now I'm even more glad that I didn't vote for you yesterDay, although depending on who you picked you may have taken a wolf with you.)


Okay, with that information, I think I can safely say....that I still don't have much of an idea what's going on. My internet's going kind of haywire this evening, so I gave up on posting for a bit, which is why I haven't posted about Menel, but I'll do my best.


No, Agan, don't leave me!!!! :(

:P

[satansaloser2005]

For my reference, we have these people left.


Agan (assumedly the hunter)
Sally (innocent)
Gwath
Eon
Kath
Shasta (no real posts)
Izzy (hasn't shown up yet)

So we know that Shasta and Gwath won't be online for the next day or so, at least as far as we're aware, and Izzy's completely MIA, so that leaves me with the options of Eon and Kath. Kath strikes me as safe, but almost too safe, if you know what I mean. I'm going to look at Menel's posts now, connection permitting, but for now my vote is almost guaranteed to go to one of those two.

ETA: Of course it's possible that Agan's lying, especially since half the people are gone and the real hunter isn't me (aka the only consistently vocal person) so no one's probably going to challenge her. But for now I'm choosing to believe her.

[Aganzir]

I think it has been quite clear for long (why am I still alive?) so why not say it aloud.

You might only guess who I had picked yesterday... :p I'm not entirely dishonest about my suspicions.

However I still have no real suspects apart from sally. I probably should try to form them at some point today.

Anyway really off to sleep now. Good night dearies.

edit: xed with a sally

[satansaloser2005]

I think it has been quite clear for long (why am I still alive?) so why not say it aloud.

You might only guess who I had picked yesterday... :p I'm not entirely dishonest about my suspicions.

However I still have no real suspects apart from sally. I probably should try to form them at some point today.

Anyway really off to sleep now. Good night dearies.

edit: xed with a sally



Nasty Sally-hunter. Bad girl, bad! Tsk tsk! ;)

Go to bed, love. See you in the morning! (And please do post about Eon and Kath when you get the chance, as I'm going to be choosing between them pretty much regardless, unless something unexpected happens.)

[satansaloser2005]

Oh, and I'm quite sad that the wolves didn't believe my tiny bluff. I said in my first 'real' post that I already knew Brinn was innocent. Obviously it was because she was dead when I read the thread, but I was hoping that they would take the bait and kill me rather than the seer. Alas, poor Menel, we knew him well. :(

[satansaloser2005]

Why won't it let me bloody POST!!?!??!?!?!?!?!?:mad:

ETA: K. Better. I'm trying to post all of Menel's words into one post but it keeps telling me my message is too short and that it needs to be at least one character long. Sorry about the random angry moment. Just a bit frustrating. *goes back to figure out what's going on*

[satansaloser2005]

Forget this. I'm getting too angry at the stupid thing to worry about it right now. I'll be back when I can get it to work. Sorry, guys. (Not that any of you are around, but still....:()

[satansaloser2005]

Day One

*Meneltarmacil the fire-drake enters the cavern*

Raaaawwwwwrrrrr! I brought you guys some dinner!

*brings in a number of freshly-cooked dwarves*

These guys were trying to dig tunnels all around my lair, so I roasted them. But on to other matters. I hear some of us have decided to turn traitorous. No idea who, but rest assured they will be breathed on and eaten if I run across 'em.

Let us be careful in our accusations, however. I would hate for any of our number to die needlessly, however tasty they might be.



Though I am loath to bring such a complaint against one of my winged bretheren, I do find Gwathagor's accusation against Strongbow to be a bit out of line. It seems like Gwath is grasping at straws to find something to say, not unlike a traitor distracting us from his plans.

However, he may just be trying to get us talking, and not be a traitor at all. We'll just have to see what comes.



To answer your question, Aganzir, you initially said this about Gwathagor:


Also, I'm suspicious of Gwath because of his maybe-you-knew-because-you're-the-bear comment

and then followed it up in other posts with things like this:


Guilty
Gwath. Because of that "Maybe you are the werebear and that's how you knew." suggestion.

and

I dare guess that if people were suspecting Bowie very much now because of that, you wouldn't be saying so.

Later on, however, you seemed to change your opinion with this statement:


My first comment regarding Gwath was more of an attempt to get some talk than a real suspicion.

(Gwath was clearly listed as "Guilty" by you earlier, though...)
Also, despite your discussion about Gwath with Boromir88 afterward which yielded the "Guilty" comment, you made this statement:


I was the first to come up with the subject but I haven't been pursuing him since.

Add that to the continuous suspicion of Brinniel the unjustly killed, and things don't look too good.

Well, that's all for now, as I grow weary and must retire to the giant treasure heap in my lair for some rest..



OK, I'll vote now, despite my lack of anything really solid to go on.

After Gwathagor made the bear accusation earlier, Ilya mentions that Bowie is "up to something" and also mentions suspicion of Gwath, but lets the latter slide.

I don't think Strongbow has done much that warrants suspicion, and I agree that Gwath tends to make suspicious comments regardless of whethjer or not he actually turns out to be evil. Ilya does seem a bit suspicious, and I also don't like how Aganzir flip-flops on several different people (including Ilya). I get the sense that she is trying to cast suspicion on others, yet making it appear otherwise.

For now, I'll vote for

++Aganzir



Day Two

Actually, when it comes to Agan, I think I wasn't interpreting her posts correctly regarding Ilya, thinking her "unsure but will reserve judgement" to "not particularly suspicious" was somehow flip-flopping. The constant suspicion of Brinn remains an oddity, however.

However, something else seems to have occurred to me. Could Gwath and Bowie both be traitorous? It may seem an odd idea, but I've known werewolves who have done this before. Perhaps this argument over the werebear was staged to give us the impression that they are not allies?

This would give Bowie the advantage of looking like an innocent victim while Gwath's aggression would appear to be the typical "Gwath being Gwath" thing, helping to shield him.



Nobody else around? Well, as I don't know when the deadline is due to this strange schedule, I suppose I'll just vote now.

++Gwathagor



Day Three

OK, so the traitors have killed Nogrod and Boromir88 thus far, which brings me to an interesting conclusion.

We have somebody who knows which innocents are troublesome and which aren't. Someone intelligent and experienced is probably working against us, driving us into confusion by hitting our best and brightest.

With this information, I find Kath to be the most capable of carrying this sort of plan out. She's been around many werewolf-plagued villages here and is likely familiar with people's playing styles. I don't have the time for it now, but later toDay I will look through her posts and put up an analysis of her behavior.



I've gone through Kath's posts, sparse as they are. The only one of substance was near the end of Day 2, and aside for some strangeness in backing me on my misguided ideas about Aganzir, I can't find anything that jumps out as suspicious. She does have a good point toDay about other experienced parties; I'd forgotten just how long they'd been around due to my long absence.



I don't really know what to make of sally, but I have noticed an odd tendency in her posts to mention, repeatedly, that she has no idea who the baddies may be. Possibly that Evil Sally can't find anything with which to trip up the innocent, so she just tries to post a lot in order to seem eager to help.

I'm really getting some negative vibes about the arguments between Gwathagor and Strongbow. Their antagonism started early, and over a joke at that. They may well be wolves, making up this disagreement to avoid impressions of being allies. However, between the two, I think Bowie's overdefensiveness makes him the more suspicious one, so

++Strongbow

EDIT: I missed a post! I'm so thick, dang it! But it's edited in now, and it's the Agan vote post so you can look that over too. Also, I just added the day numbers in so it'd be easier, but obviously there was no 'content' to change so I'm hoping this is okay to edit it. Meh.

[satansaloser2005]

Seriously, nine hours with no posts? :(



No, I didn't die, but not for lack of trying. (Read that I got rather ill and decided to take a nap, not that I need to see a counselor. Just so that's clear.) I'm actually going to bed now but I'll be back up in a few hours and I will discuss Menel's posts, I promise.

[Kath]

Thanks for those posts by Menel sally, I've been reading them through but I think I'm getting more confused as I go. I would never have pegged him as the Seer and even now with that knowledge and his posts I'm having trouble working out who on earth he dreamt of.

He mentions Gwath, says that he thinks he could be a traitor. That might indicate a first Night dream except that a couple of Days later he drops suspicion of Gwath in favour of Strongbow, who has now been proven innocent and so cannot have been a dream.

I think he might have actually dreamt of Agan and found her innocent. He argues with her a bit and then pretty much clears her apart from saying that going after Brinn was odd.

He mentions me but I'm not sure what to make of that. Whether he did dream of me and so mention and then clear me within the Day or just based his opinion on my posts. I don't know whether he would start the Day basically announcing who he's dreamt of but in that subtle way - though I suppose it wasn't that subtle to everyone if the wolves figured him out. I guess that would be true for whether he dreamt of Agan too though as he mentioned her early in the Day and then sort of cleared her by the end of it.

And again with sally I'm unsure because even after posting and using the words 'evil sally' and things that might suggest he's dreamt of her and found her evil he goes and votes for Strongbow who we know he cannot have dreamt of.

I think we can be sure that Menel hadn't dreamt of two wolves even if he dreamt of every person above or surely he would have revealed. And Gollum said there was no before game dream so there will only have been two I believe.

So I think the choice for those he might have dreamt of given the posts that he made would be:
Gwath
Agan
Kath
sally

I am not sure which of those he actually dreamt of because I don't know his style. If he does actually mention who he dreamt of early in the Day and then says what he found out later then I would think he dreamt of Agan and/or me and/or Gwath and found whoever innocent.

The thing with sally is that the way he talks about her is different to the way he mentions everyone else on that list which does make me think he found out something different about her - but would he really have voted for someone he didn't know the role of over someone he knew to be a wolf?

[Aganzir]

Thanks for posting those quotes sally. And yes a post requires at least one letter in addition to quotes.

This should teach me to wait before revealing because if I was just someone Menel had probably dreamed of and found innocent the wolves might have come after me next night. Unless they had figured I was the hunter. Maybe.

I don't really know what to make of Menel's posts. He might have dreamed of me, but then again he did misinterpret some things in my posts.

He keeps toying with the Gwath/Bowie thing but doesn't indicate having dreamt of either. Bowie was innocent, and his mistrust of them included the idea of them both being wolves, so I don't know. I don't think he has dreamt of Gwath, but then there's this
I'm really getting some negative vibes about the arguments between Gwathagor and Strongbow.

I wouldn't be so quick to rule out the possibility he had dreamed of an evil Kath, naming her as the most capable of killing Boro and Nog. However his next post doesn't give that impression - if he had dreamed of her, why didn't he try to find something suspicious in her posts then?

The Evil Sally bolding caught my eye already yesterday because it isn't that usual that adjectives are bolded as well, and it might be a hint... But why didn't he vote sally then? Hmm he was the first to vote and I think I was the only one expressing constant suspicion of sally and it was not at all obvious that she'd be voted. Also, if sally's evil, it's possible he didn't want to draw her attention to himself by voting her.

One thing leaves me wondering - why am I still alive? Did the baddies have me figured out early (which I wouldn't be very surprised of) or did they just have more important people to kill? To be honest I would have quite expected to die last night.
Did they guess Menel was the seer or was he just a random kill? Unlike Boro and Nog, he isn't a very loud player, but he's one of the old school guys.

Garr I don't know anything.