The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún: Pre- and Reviews

[davem]

http://www.thebookseller.com/news/73781-page.html

HarperCollins is to publish a new book by the late Lord of the Rings author J R R Tolkien. The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún, edited and introduced by Tolkien’s son Christopher, will be published in hardback in May 2009.

The previously unpublished work was written while Tolkien was professor of Anglo-Saxon at Oxford University during the 1920s and '30s, before he wrote The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. The publication will make available for the first time Tolkien’s extensive retelling in English narrative verse of the epic Norse tales of Sigurd the Völsung and the Fall of the Niflungs.

Christopher Tolkien edited Tolkien's most recent title The Children of Húrin in 2007.

Further details about the contents of the book will be revealed closer to publication.

[Leyrana Silumiel]

Oh my goodness me indeed! :D

[Beregond]

Assuming it's true (forgive the skepticism, but there are a lot of false rumours), you beat TheOneRing.net to the story! :D

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Given some of the similarities in the stories, it doesn't surprise me that this is coming out now, with Children of Hurin still fresh in our minds. Wasn't this one of Tolkien's favourite stories as a child? I seem to recall reading that, but it's been a while since I read a proper biography...

[Estelyn Telcontar]

But - but it's not even close to April 1st yet! :eek:

[davem]

Don't know if anyone recalls William Cloud Hicklin mentioning on another thread that CT was working on a volume of his father's verse - looks like this is it. I've been wanting to read Tolkien's 'New Volsungasaga' since it was mentioned in Carpenter's biography.

[davem]

http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/857-New_Tolkien_book_Sigurd_Gudrun.php

David Brawn, the publishing director of HarperCollins UK, said: "It is an entirely unpublished work, dates from around the early 1930s, and will be published - all being well - in May this year. Otherwise the clue as to what the book will contain is in the title - THE LEGEND OF SIGURD AND GUDRUN. You will surmise from this that it is not a Middle-earth book, but we are confident that Tolkien fans will be fascinated by it."

[Bêthberry]

This won't be a translation, will it? A Tolkien retelling in his own narrative style?

[Rumil]

Cheers for the heads-up davem!

Looking forward to this one, especially as I've been remiss in reading any Norse legends!

[davem]

Found this, which speculates on the new book http://lingwe.blogspot.com/2009/01/new-tolkien-material-coming-this-summer.html

I suspect this work must be the “long unpublished poem entitled ‘Volsungakviða En Nyja’, probably written in the late 1920s or early 1930s. Tolkien described it, in a letter to [W.H.] Auden dated 29 January 1968, as ‘written in fornyrðislag 8-line stanzas in English: an attempt to organize the Edda material dealing with Sigurd and Gunnar’”

Maybe we can look forward to 'The Fall of Arthur' next?

[The Might]

Wait... so even more quotes to search for in "Minor Works"? :D

I don't know if I'll read it only because it is by Tolkien... I'll look up the reviews first and read other opinions and then decide if it's worth buying.

[davem]

I don't know if I'll read it only because it is by Tolkien... I'll look up the reviews first and read other opinions and then decide if it's worth buying.

Its not another Children of Hurin, certainly. It belongs with Tolkien's translations of Gawain, Pearl & Orfeo. That said, its the tale of Sigurd & Fafnir the Dragon, & as Tolkien wrote:

"Best of all [was] the nameless North of Sigurd of the Völsungs, and the prince of all dragons. Such lands were pre-eminently desirable. I never imagined that the dragon was of the same order as the horse. And that was not solely because I saw horses daily, but never even the footprint of a worm. The dragon had the trade-mark Of Faerie written plain upon him. In whatever world he had his being it was an Other-world. Fantasy, the making or glimpsing of Other-worlds, was the heart of the desire of Faërie. I desired dragons with a profound desire. Of course, I in my timid body did not wish to have them in the neighborhood, intruding into my relatively safe world, in which it was, for instance, possible to read stories in peace of mind, free from fear. But the world that contained even the imagination of Fáfnir was richer and more beautiful, at whatever cost of peril."On Fairy Stories

[Bêthberry]

Wait... so even more quotes to search for in "Minor Works"? :D


Some day, you might even have to add Tolkien's translation of Beowulf, just to mix up the lines from sagas, to the quote games, although of course after first deciding what is a minor work and what is a major work. :D

[Aaront596]

Some day, you might even have to add Tolkien's translation of Beowulf,

i want to read his two versions of Beowulf so bad i'm actually pretty ticked off at his estate for not publishing it yet. But it's good to here that some more tolkien is coming out and i'll be sure to snatch this up right away. Also good to hear that Christopher is behind it, but i still think the two beowulfs should have been published long ago.

[davem]

Guardian feature http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/jan/07/tolkien-norse-legend

[fenris1011]

This is great news!

I cannot wait. I love Norse Mythology.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Yep, this is the 'verse' I was talking about. But I couldn't at the time be other than vague and let the cat out of the bag.


Beowulf- well, there are issues surrounding that text, and I don't know if CT has the energy left to address them. There may be a certain hope for The Fall of Arthur, and I've been on him to republish Aotrou and Itroun, since it's not like many of us have ever seen that back number of the extinct Welsh Review.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I will probably buy and read it, but I am slightly annoyd because it will take up some of the time I wanted to use on reading Saxo, Sven Aggesøn, Arild Huitfeldt and the Sagas
(And Grundtvig's tranlation of Beowulf)

[davem]

Ok, this is the deluxe ed, but I'm assuming publication date for the standard ed is going to be the same - 5/5/9

http://www.harpercollins.co.uk/Contents/Title/Pages/default.aspx?objId=48715

Many years ago, J.R.R. Tolkien composed his own version, now published for the first time, of the great legend of Northern antiquity, in two closely related poems to which he gave the titles The New Lay of the Völsungs and The New Lay of Gudrún.In the Lay of the Völsungs is told the ancestry of the great hero Sigurd, the slayer of Fáfnir most celebrated of dragons, whose treasure he took for his own; of his awakening of the Valkyrie Brynhild who slept surrounded by a wall of fire; and of his coming to the court of the great princes who were named the Niflungs (or Nibelungs), with whom he entered into blood-brotherhood. In that court there sprang great love but also great hate, brought about by the power of the enchantress, mother of the Niflungs, skilled in the arts of magic, of shape-changing and potions of forgetfulness.In scenes of dramatic intensity, of confusion of identity, thwarted passion, jealousy and bitter strife, the tragedy of Sigurd and Brynhild, and Gudrún his sister, mounts to its end in the murder of Sigurd at the hands of his blood-brothers, the suicide of Brynhild, and the despair of Gudrún. In the Lay of Gudrún her fate after the death of Sigurd is told, her marriage against her will to the mighty Atli, ruler of the Huns (the Attila of history), his murder of her brothers, and her hideous revenge.Deriving his version primarily from his close study of the ancient poetry of Norway and Iceland known as the Poetic Edda (and from the later prose work the Völsunga Saga), Tolkien employed a verse-form whose lines embody in English the exacting alliterative rhythms and the concentrated energy of the poems of the Edda.This ancient poetry remained a deep force in Tolkien's life's work. Here, at last, is presented the source of the wellspring that would lead to The Hobbit and The Children of Húrin. It is the first full flourishing of a rich narrative style and powerful, dramatic storytelling that was destined to become famous throughout the world.

[LadyBrooke]

I’ll definitely have to get this book then. I love his translations - the ones I’ve got to read at least, which are Sir Ofero, Gawain and the Green Night, and Pearl. The fact that this appears to be his own version of it and not a straight translation can only make it better.:D

Like many others I would love to see his translation of Beowulf, just to see if it is better (more approachable I guess) than the other translations I’ve seen so far, in the relatively secluded area I live in - in which my only hope of getting a translation of Beowulf may be if it gets published as a book by the Tolkien Estates. :mad: But at the same time I can understand that it might be impossible to publish. And hey maybe if they don’t I can do my own translation in a few decades - seriously obsessed language student here.:D

[davem]

Here's an update on the FOUR alternative editions of Sigurd & Gudrun http://tolkien.co.uk/pages/interestcaptureform.aspx

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Its not another Children of Hurin, certainly. It belongs with Tolkien's translations of Gawain, Pearl & Orfeo

Not exactly. Those were translations of existing Middle English poems. Sigurd and Gudrun are Tolkien's original retellings (in verse) of a pre-existing story, not simply translations of the very confused pieces found in the Poetic Edda and the (prose) Volsungasaga. This would be more like Morris' 'retelling,' except making use of the Old Norse verse-form.

[radagastly]

Originally posted by:
William Cloud Hicklin:

Sigurd and Gudrun are Tolkien's original retellings (in verse) of a pre-existing story, not simply translations of the very confused pieces found in the Poetic Edda and the (prose) Volsungasaga.

So much the better. Essentially (sort of . . .) an original Tolkien work, new to publication. What more could we ask for?

Can't wait!

[davem]

And Amazon now has the cover picture. Amazingly it is not illustrated by Alan Lee..........

[William Cloud Hicklin]

FWIW, the cover photo is a detail of the 'Sigurd Portal' from the 13th-c. stave church at Hylestad, Norway. The image is Sigurd's horse, Grani, laden with the late Fafnir's treasure.

[davem]

Positive , from John Garth http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/fiction/article6193162.ece in the Times

& negative (overall - more damning with faint praise because he likes bits of it), from Mark Sanderson http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/poetryandplaybookreviews/5237371/The-Legend-of-Sigurd-and-Gudrun-by-J.R.R.-Tolkien-review.html in the Telegraph

& one somewhere in the middle http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705300839,00.html (likes the poems but not the 'scholarly stuff' It's great fun to read new work from such a beloved author. Unfortunately commentary makes up the majority of "The Legend," becoming a slog as the reader fights through a textbook of sorts to get to the meat. Additional information and clarification is appreciated, but many will find a light skim of the "extra" material sufficient.

[Bêthberry]

I suspect that Mark Sanderson of The Telegraph was simply doing his darnedest to work up to a line he couldn't resist.


there is no disguising the fact that everyone involved is simply flogging a dead Norse.


That's a line that would make some Downers proud. However, his premise is rather wrong. Christopher Tolkien was editing and publishing his father's works long before Jackson's film came out, so I doubt that the popularity of the film is what solely motivated this publication. Chances are it would have come out anyway, just likely in a different form, published in a scholarly journal perhaps or a festschrift to the arcane things medieval scholars do (did) rather than in a HarperCollins book.

John Garth's review in The Times is the one for those who know the most about Tolkien the writer and the one which most persuades me that the reviewer knows a bit about what he writes--there's actually a point of view in there that one could have a decent discussion over. But then, I'm not movie-inspired, and Sanderson and Harrison are writing to that crowd.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Sanderson's scurrilous point is rather undermined by the fact that Sigurd and Gudrun were originally prepared for publication in the mid-1980's- years and years before the Jackson movies.

Truth be told, CT is bringing them out now because some of us asked him to.

(Sanderson also betrays his ignorance by calling Gudrun Sigurd's "sister"- she is of course Gunnar's sister and Sigurd's widow.)

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Here's another, from a source predisposed to be favorable:

http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/884-Review_The_Legend_of_Sigurd_and_Gudrun.php

[davem]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/may/05/jrr-tokien-sigurd-gudrun-poem

[William Cloud Hicklin]

More reviews-

Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/04/AR2009050403462.html


CanWest News: http://www.canada.com/Beyond+Middle+Earth+unearthed+Tolkien+book+explore s+Norse+myth+legend/1562346/story.html

Library Journal: http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA6655942.html

[William Cloud Hicklin]

New Sigurd & Gudrun section at the official Estate website!

http://www.tolkienestate.com/sigurd-and-gudrun/

[Aiwendil]

Just bought it! Though I won't have a chance to start on it in earnest until tomorrow, I have read Christopher Tolkien's Foreword. First impressions: The lays themselves are shorter than I expected; each 'half-line' is actually printed as a separate line, and there are only 24 per page. I for one am very glad that the book is filled out with Christopher's commentary and with material from Tolkien's lectures on Old Norse. The book has a very nice look and feel, and the wood-carving-style drawings preceding each section are a nice touch.

[davem]

The book has a very nice look and feel, and the wood-carving-style drawings preceding each section are a nice touch.

I'm assuming the Houghton Mifflin edition is superior to the Harper Collins 'hardback' (ie'paperback with thick card covers') production then - the HC glued binding is so bad (which I'd feared would be the case, sadly, after their 70th anniversary Hobbit 'hardback') that I'm afraid to open it to more than forty-five degrees in case it breaks in half :(

[William Cloud Hicklin]

It certainly seems to be the case over the last several years that H-M's North American editions are superior, physically, to the very cheap binding used by HC UK.

[davem]

Tom Shippey in the Times Literary Suppliment http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/the_tls/article6232731.ece

[Morthoron]

Below find the complete review by Shippey of Tolkien's 'THE LEGEND OF SIGURD AND GUDRÚN' in the Times Literary Supplement Online. It carries the heavy-handed (almost Wagnerian) title "Tolkien out-Wagners Wagner":

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/the_tls/article6232731.ece?&EMC-Bltn=PMUFMA

Very intriguing and deep. Not for the faint of heart, but quite interesting to this English Major. I'm sure not everyone will find the implications of the use of parataxis and asyndeton fascinating, I do.;)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Went to buy it today but it's not available here yet. It will probably get here at the end of May or start of June. I realise I could order online but I like the old-fasioned way. ;) I think this is the first time I've been eagerly awaiting a book's release.

[Lalaith]

Just bought it today. One thing I'm wondering about...why is Gudrun spelt with the Icelandic ú but not also ð?

It should either be Gudrun (German) or Guðrún (Icelandic/Norse).

[Mithalwen]

I'm assuming the Houghton Mifflin edition is superior to the Harper Collins 'hardback' (ie'paperback with thick card covers') production then - the HC glued binding is so bad (which I'd feared would be the case, sadly, after their 70th anniversary Hobbit 'hardback') that I'm afraid to open it to more than forty-five degrees in case it breaks in half :(

I havent ordered this yet - I wonder if there is a way of getting an US edition shipped? Or would it have funky spelling...?

[davem]

I havent ordered this yet - I wonder if there is a way of getting an US edition shipped? Or would it have funky spelling...?

You can get it through Amazon UK Marketplace, or from the Book Depository http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9780547273426/The-Legend-of-Sigurd-and-Gudrun

Mind you - I did read a review of HM's 70th Anniversary Hobbit hardback on Amazon.com complaining that the glued binding was terrible.....

I suspect we're now at the stage of having to buy the 'super-de-luxe' Harper Collins editions for £250-350 if we want decent Tolkien hardbacks (not that I'm planning to indulge myself.....). The only modern hardbacks that don't leaving me feeling ripped off are the Folio Society volumes I occasionally treat meself to. I can't help feeling that all publishers are trying to push us towards e-books by churning out the most attrociously produced, over-priced volumes they possibly can. I can't recall the last hardback I saw with a proper sewn binding that wasn't produced by Folio.

S&G, contents-wise though, is amazingly good.

[Aiwendil]

I havent ordered this yet - I wonder if there is a way of getting an US edition shipped? Or would it have funky spelling...?

Well, the binding on the U.S. HM edition isn't that great . . . it's not about to fall apart or anything, but neither is it the sturdiest book I've ever owned. Paying for overseas shipping probably wouldn't be worth it unless the HC is truly awful.

No funky spellings, though - fortunately, HM doesn't inflict any 'Americanization' on us, unlike the U.S. publishers of certain other English books (Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone? Oy vey!)

[Morthoron]

And a negative review, citation courtesy of our friends over on TheOneRing.net:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/poetryandplaybookreviews/5237371/The-Legend-of-Sigurd-and-Gudrun-by-J.R.R.-Tolkien-review.html

It would seem someone peed in this guy's Cheerios. "Flogging a dead Norse", although somewhat witty in an LOL, internet-chat sense, is quite inane in a critique of a serious work, and his continued reliance on name-dropping Peter Jackson and the fans of the movie is rather missing the point. Everyone knows the fans of the movie can't read. ;)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

That is a quite outrageously irrelevant review by this Sanderson guy. No critical worth whatsoever.

Shippey's review was highly enjoyable to read; a man who knows and enjoys the subject, so clearly he can tell the reader a little something.

[Bêthberry]

There's already been a fair bit of discussion of these reviews on the thread which announced the publication of S & G: Oh My Goodness Me!!! (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?p=595179#post595179). You might want to check it out. ;)

[Lalaith]

That Shippey review is brilliant. In fact, I think I'm in love.
Two highlights:
Where Norse clashes, English tends to patter
Oh yes.
And:
But if you need everything spelt out, Eddic poetry is not for you, and nor is Icelandic saga: read Trollope instead. You must listen also for slight but significant changes in repeated wording, sometimes made more significant in meaning by the slightness of the verbal change.

yes, yes, yes. Not terribly fair on Trollope: 'watch Peter Jackson instead' might have been more appropriate...

Meanwhile, my computer is refusing to load the Telegraph review. Judging by what you guys have said about it, my computer clearly has taste...

[Bêthberry]

Given these comments about the poor binding of the hardcover, I'm thinking of waiting for the paperback, although I am very interested in reading this.

Anyone have any info on when the paperback might be out?

[Lalaith]

Ok, I've just read the Telegraph review. How embarrassing. ...."based on the Norse saga, the Elder Edda". About as well-informed as saying "based on the epic poem, Oliver Twist." :rolleyes:

Anyway, back to the much more interesting Shippey review.
Why should Gudrún wish to protect the brothers who murdered her husband? Is that just because kinship is stronger than love?
This is a very interesting point and, IMO, the answer is yes. The vengeful sister is a recurring theme in early North Europe, and brother/sister links in royal families were very strong - look at the Picts, and at Arthur's ties to his sister's sons, Gawain and co....

And this:
Once they have been captured, why does Gunnar refuse to speak until he has seen his brother Högni’s heart
Shippey answers this himself.
a touchstone for the true heroic temper: proud, mean, contemptuous, ending in silence.
This is spot on, and Tolkien got it....Jackson didn't, with all his silly angsty stuff around Aragorn in the films. In heroic epic, less is more, emotions-wise. It was THE huge flaw of the films.

[Mithalwen]

Not terribly fair on Trollope: 'watch Peter Jackson instead' might have been more appropriate...



Depends if he means Anthony or Joanna.... if Anthony I will growl and it is an odd choice since he is another author, like Tolkien, whom the literati like to sneer at...
*retreats imagining a face off between Dr Theophilus Grantly and Gandalf...* :p

[Kent2010]

I am not understanding the issue people are having with Sanderson's critique. Compared to Shippey's it is pretty juvenile, but they are writing to two different audiences.

Shippey is a leading Tolkien authority and is an expert in this field, naturally you expect not only a good, but honest, review of the book. However brilliant of a review he writes, it is for a specialized and smaller audience. It's for people who seriously want to engage and hold a scholarly conversation about the book. I don't know who this Sanderson guy is, but he is writing for a national newspaper, a different and larger targetted audience. To compare the two and discount one as being completely irrelevant is something I don't understand.

Sanderson mentions Jackson twice, he does not "continually" drop Jackson's name. He brings up film's success in the beginning and at the end makes a statement that refers to the Jackson 'fan franchise' probably going to be confused by the two stories. I don't like his tone in the first paragraph, but overall his review does bring up a poignant point.

The movies targetted a larger, more general audience, and film fans will most likely not find it interesting, because The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrun is for a specialized audience, not like the Lord of the Rings (book or film) which attracted a wide, diverse fanbase. Whether his assumption that if the films were not successful this book would not have the hype around it, is accurate or not, I really don't know. However, the point is worth considering, because of the burst in published works by Tolkien (or books about Tolkien/LOTR) has grown since the success of the movies.

So, you do wonder whether this is a marketing ploy that is attempting to capitalize on the film's fan base - Tolkien is a contemporary popular author, and has remained one since the popularity of LOTR. What I took from Sanderson's review is you can't overlook the burst in getting "everything Tolkien" since the movies, and the attempt to capitalize on his sustained popularity. Plus, his opinion that the general film fan base will not be interested in this book.

That might not be true, and it might not really seem necessary to say, but the review shouldn't be immediately discounted because you don't agree with the review, or it's not at the level of Shippey. What are you going to expect from a publication in a national newspaper? I have seen just as many reviews giving positive reviews on books that make me wonder if the reviewer was the author's spouse! However, that doesn't mean these should be discounted as simply being popular hogwash not worth the time of serious "intellectuals."

[Mithalwen]

The books were enduringly popular before the films came out - LOTR was voted book of the century in the UK before and The Hobbit is one of the booksellers old faithfuls....

Yes the films probably did bring new readers - I seldom go to the cinema these days (logistical nightmare)and I can't be the only person who coughed up the cash for the love of Tolkien rather than an appreciation of the works of Peter Jackson. No one ever seems to consider mind that the films may have benefitted from a strong pre-existing Tolkien fanbase....:rolleyes:

I am glad if the films meant that old books were reissued and new ones published but the films aren't the reason I buy them - I waited a couple of decades to get my mitts on the Road goes ever on and to complete my HoME.

Tolkien bashing is terribly fashionable amongst the British Intelligentsia and they love to use the films as another stick to bash him with. Tolkien never expected everyone to like his work and nor do I, but when critics make basic errors of fact and gear their review to an irresistible pun you do have to suspect lazy journalism rather than objective reviewing. One of the reviewers of CoH said that Thingol was the silliest name in all Tolkien thereby proving just how little he must have read ;)

[Lalaith]

but he is writing for a national newspaper
Shippey is writing for the Times which is also a national newspaper.
I've no problem with a reviewer saying the book's mass-market targeting might be misguided given rather scholarly niche of the subject matter. However, when he starts trying to give a literary response to the poetry the it becomes rather painful:
Thanks to the rhythm you can hear the approaching horses.
I've seen better from 14-year-olds.
And then...
It is some kind of achievement to bulk up the equivalent of 500 Twitter messages to 377 pages but there is no disguising the fact that everyone involved is simply flogging a dead Norse.

What the hell has Twitter got to do with anything?

[Kent2010]

No one ever seems to consider mind that the films may have benefitted from a strong pre-existing Tolkien fanbase....
-Mithalwen
I have and I do realize that Hollywood, long before Jackson, had intentions to cash-in on Tolkien's success.

But my point about Sanderson's review is exactly what you bring up:
I am glad if the films meant that old books were reissued and new ones published but the films aren't the reason I buy them - I waited a couple of decades to get my mitts on the Road goes ever on and to complete my HoME.
That is also a fact we have to realize, the movies were extremely successful and Sanderson basically argues that if the movies were not successful, contributing to the sustaining (and arguably increase) of Tolkien's popularity, would this book have come out now? Maybe he is wrong, but it is not an entirely unfounded, or insignificant opinion.

Beyond assuming the film fanbase would be left confused by the book, he doesn't use the movies to bash the books. That make the review at least worthy of conversation and debate, and that is why I didn't understand why it has been easily discounted.

It can't be held up to the level of Shippey, because this is Shippey's area of expertise and he always gives worthy, honest reviews, as he did for the movies. It is a superficial review, but what can one expect when you write a review for a newspaper. Ink costs money, and you are expected to state your point and move on, there is no luxury to provide an in-depth thoughtful review.

What Sanderson brought up was a reasonable question and logical opinion that the movie fan base will probably not like the book - because it is not like LOTR and it could be confusing. He comes off sounding condescending in the first paragraph, but he gave his review and brought up some things I thought were worthy to mention. And he did not even have to revert to making "Turin" jabs. :)

Edit:

Shippey is writing for the Times which is also a national newspaper.
-Lalaith
But the Times has a different readership and when Tom Shippey is asked to review something about Tolkien, you expect exactly what he gave - there is no disagreement, he did write a worthy review. I was just trying to understand why the other review was quickly discounted, when I found it brought up some important questions, the delivery ehh, but I did find it relevant.

I've seen better from 14-year-olds.
But he was complimenting that part. :p

[Mithalwen]

Most of the later works were issued pre-film (Silmarillion, UT, HoME...). I don't see that this one would not have been issued without the films though maybe with a lot less fuss.

The Telegraph is a broadsheet newspaper and has a huge circulation (and I am a subscriber!) - it should at least get its facts right.... slightly disturbing considering it's main current field of activity...

[Kent2010]

The Telegraph is a broadsheet newspaper and has a huge circulation (and I am a subscriber!) - it should at least get its facts right.... slightly disturbing considering it's main current field of activity...
-Mithalwen
It's probably better than the Record Courier or Kent Stater that are my primary options out here. Maybe that's why I see the points with Sanderson, it looks juvenile compared to Shippey, but compared to the Courier it is a stroke of literary genius. :p

[Mithalwen]

The Telegraph is the biggest selling "quality paper" with an average daily circulation of over 840,000 - ok some of them probably get it mainly for the crossword, Matt, and the sport coverage, but it is big enough for some accuracy to be expected. :D

[davem]

Not many reviews of S&G worth reading so far. Certainly, John Garth's http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/fiction/article6193162.ece is very good & Christopher Tolkien's Q&A is a gift http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/may/05/jrr-tokien-sigurd-gudrun-poem.

[Morthoron]

I am not understanding the issue people are having with Sanderson's critique. Compared to Shippey's it is pretty juvenile, but they are writing to two different audiences.

For whom is Sanderson writing, exactly? Usually book reviews are not so impertinent. The book reviews in my local paper, the Detroit Free Press, are certainly not on par with the New York Times, but they too have a different audience; however, the Free Press' reviews are merely more concise and generic, not jocose and insincere. It would seem to me that Mr. Sanderson is misguided regarding the audience for 'Sigurd'. The book's appeal is certainly not for the average film fan, anymore than a republishing of Tolkien's Beowulf translation would be. In a banal effort to be witty, Sanderson missed the point completely.

Sanderson mentions Jackson twice, he does not "continually" drop Jackson's name. He brings up film's success in the beginning and at the end makes a statement that refers to the Jackson 'fan franchise' probably going to be confused by the two stories. I don't like his tone in the first paragraph, but overall his review does bring up a poignant point.

Peter Jackson is the first person mentioned in the piece, and receives primary mention in the conclusion of the review. Go back to your Essay Writing 101 class, and you will find that, from a strictly technical standpoint, the piece is about Jackson and not Tolkien. J.R.R. Tolkien is not even mentioned in the introduction, nor is he mentioned in the conclusion, which is a summation of the writer's points. In any case, Sanderson seems to believe that 'Sigurd' would not have been published if it weren't for the films. He seems to have overlooked The Silmarillion (1978) and the 12 volume HoMe series (1983-1996), both hugely popular and neither requiring cross-pollination from the films to find a wide readership.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Two threads on this subject have been merged here to make it easier for all to keep up with the discussion. Enjoy!

[Aiwendil]

Well, I've read it and rather enjoyed it. I was surprised initially by how different in tone and effect these lays are from Tolkien's Middle-earth-related lays, the 'Lay of Leithian' and, particularly, the alliterative 'Children of Hurin'. Tolkien's comments on the differences between Old English and Old Norse verse could equally well describe the differences between his lays of Middle-earth and of the old North. 'Sigurd' and 'Gudrun' are far shorter, more terse; they make use of quick, bold strokes and flashes of imagery rather than fully fleshed narrative. Even the individual half-lines are shorter; there's nary a syllable more than is absolutely needed in any of them. This produces a far more markedly rhythmic effect than in Tolkien's more English alliterative verse, but this comes at the cost of a great number of inversions and un-proselike word orderings; there was the occasional sentence that I had to read twice to parse.

I agree with some of the reviewers linked to that the 'Lay of Gudrun' is the better of the two. I think the reasons for this may be related to the stylistic points mentioned above. The action of 'Gudrun' is far more concentrated, limited to just a few episodes, than that of the 'Lay of the Volsungs', and it seems to lend itself to the style of this verse more than the latter. I thought several times as I was reading it that the 'Lay of the Volsungs' might be served better by Tolkien's English-style alliterative verse (the kind used in the alliterative 'Children of Hurin'). This is certainly not to say that I didn't enjoy it; and some episodes (e.g. the death of Sigurd) were very well done. On the other hand, one episode that I thought a little disappointing was the slaying of Fafnir. As a matter of fact, I was a bit surprised at how little a mark Fafnir himself makes upon the poem, considering Tolkien's opinion of him as 'the prince of all dragons'.

The chief element that Tolkien added to the story, the role appointed for Sigurd in the Ragnarok, is a well-placed stroke. It at once lends an overarching purpose to the narrative and explains the sometimes confusing role that Odin plays in it. It also makes the story less of an 'amoral' one (whether that's good or bad is, I suppose, a matter of taste). And, of course, it only strengthens the association between Sigurd and Turin. With other, smaller, changes, Tolkien does a very good job of making sense out of confusing or contradictory points in the sources.

The commentary and explanatory material provided by Christopher Tolkien (and largely drawn from lectures and notes by his father) is wonderful. I particularly enjoyed the appendix on the origin of the legends, which is better than all the other brief treatments of that topic that I've read combined. In the commentary, Christopher Tolkien compares in some detail the stories found in these Lays with those in their sources, the Volsunga Saga, the Edda of Snorri Sturluson, and various poems from the so-called 'Elder Edda'.

[Mithalwen]

Well, the binding on the U.S. HM edition isn't that great . . . it's not about to fall apart or anything, but neither is it the sturdiest book I've ever owned. Paying for overseas shipping probably wouldn't be worth it unless the HC is truly awful.

No funky spellings, though - fortunately, HM doesn't inflict any 'Americanization' on us, unlike the U.S. publishers of certain other English books (Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone? Oy vey!)


Thank you ... I have had a look at the volume in the bookshop and wil probably risk the normal hardback unless I can find and amazing deal on the special edition.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Oh, the HM isn't remotely a "high-quality" binding; simply that their mass-market bindings have remained essentially unchanged since the 70's, whereas HC (and other UK publishers) have been getting progressively cheaper and shoddier.

My ca. 1973 H-M trilogy after years of use/abuse suffered broken backs, and I had to rehang them; and the size and weight of the 1992 one-volume Alan Lee was too much for the binding to handle and didn't last long at all.

[davem]

Oh, I didn't want to pick on HC in particular (though even their 'de-luxe Collector's editions' of Tolkien's works are shoddy - 'quarter binding' is supposed to be either cloth or leather, not paper!). As I've stated, Folio Society editions are uniformly well produced, with sewn bindings, & often at half the price of the HC 'de-luxe'. Luckily their LotR, Hobbit & Silmarillion editions are widely available from dealers - often for less than the cost of the HC hardbacks. If only they produced editions of all Tolkien's works.....

If Folio can produce quality books at not much more than the cost of HC's 'standard' hardbacks & still turn a profit one has to ask why HC can turn out such poorly made volumes.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

'quarter binding' is supposed to be either cloth or leather, not paper!

Wow! Even H-M's massmarkets are cloth fullbound- I have decried Random House's cheapness in going to cloth quarter bindings!

H-M's 'deluxe' LR 50th is pretty nice- not up to Eaton standard, but fully bound in decent if thin leather, nice paper, with signatures sewn the old-fashioned way and hung flatfoot, and gilt edgesl to boot. I understand that there were quality-control problems with early examples (esp. those shipped to Amazon), but those apparently had been worked out by the time I got mine.

[davem]

(Hoping that this thread is not going too far off topic...) I think its about time that publishers bit the bullet & forgot about the usual hardback release followed a year later by a paperback. Go for paperback/ebook/high quality hardback simultaneous release (sorry to bang on about the Folio society but if you look here you can see how a publishing company can produce high quality books at a decent price - between £25-£50 in most cases, & so much less than the HC 'collector's' editions. Leave the mass market hardback out altogether. http://www.foliosociety.com/pages/crafting-fine-books - ). That way the collectors can go for decent books & the general reader can get hold of the text straight away at an affordable price. If Folio can do it at that price so can HC.

[Kuruharan]

...from the perspective of somebody who is an utter novice when it comes to Norse mythology.

As a general rule I don't enjoy poetry very much (I know, I'm an insufferable cretin) so I have to admit that I was approaching this book more as a learning opportunity. It didn't take long, though, before I really started enjoying myself. There truly is a vigor in these verses that I was not expecting that carried me away to the "unnamed North"...at least for awhile. Once familiar historical places and personages started to be mentioned my historically geared brain started taking over. I do seem to be in something of a minority in having enjoyed the Lay of the Volsungs more than the Lay of Gudrun as I enjoyed the epic sweep of time and characters the first encompassed.

I did notice a number of parallels or at least similarities with the Turin story, particularly with the slaying of Fafnir and the dwarf Andvari's ransom...particularly with some of the earliest versions of the Turin story.

I echo Aiwendil's sentiments about the general all-round awesomeness of the commentaries.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

There is an online review (http://globalcomment.com/2009/sigurd-and-gudrun-is-classic-tolkien-but-not-business-as-usual/) on Global Comment, written by David King, a member of the Tolkien Society who may be known to some Barrow-Downers from Oxonmoot. As a scholar of Viking and Anglo-Saxon studies, he is knowledgeable on the subject, and his positive review is based on more than "mere" Tolkien fanship.

[Will Stukeley]

I have just opened the super deluxe offering of the 'Legend', which comes at £100 less than 'The Children of Hurin' super deluxe.

Choice of leathers is superior to 'The Children of Hurin'. The clamshell case looks expensive and the book leather feels better than a top quality Gucci handbag.

This time they've use proper marbled endpapers (they were fake last time) and the text block has rounded corners to match the binding.

The whole thing has the feel of the best of old bindings.

Complaints? The gold stamping could have been cleaned better (residual goldleaf at the edges of lettering), and the clamshell case is a bit tight.

Too damn nice to read so I'm waiting the paperback release too!