Werewolf LXXII: Now There's the Truth of It! (Game Thread)

[satansaloser2005]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the 72nd round of Barrow Downs Werewolf (not counting the Junior games, of course). The following competitors are lined up and eager to stake their claim as most popular Downer.


Brinn
Dun
Fea
Form
Glirdan
Gwath
Izzy
Lottie
Mira
Nerwen
Nienna
Nog
Pitch
Rune
Steve
Wilwa



The first round of eliminations will commence at 3 a.m. GMT tomorrow. Best of luck to all!



(Note: I'll put the narration up later, but I got lazy and didn't write an opening opening narration, so this'll have to do for now.)

[Formendacil]

Okay... this feels a bit odd... first person posting... and I'm going to bed pretty quickly.

Ummm... I have no suspicions yet. It's Day 1 after all. I trust I can get away with that when the only post I could suspect is the Moddess's?

I mean, I can pull random accusations out of the hat, for old times' sakes, towards Glirdan and Nogrod--Glirdy's simply always suspicious, and if Nog doesn't disagree with me yet, he will... but that's rather silly reasoning, no? Also, I'd like to suspect Shasta, on the simple grounds of being Shasta... but he doesn't seem to be playing, and so that wouldn't be sporting.

Seeeeeeeeeriously... whose idea was it for the Day 1 Curmudgeon to get first post? :p

[Mirandir]

So since Form was the first to post, he must be evil. That's how it still works, right? It's been a while. :p

So I won't be around until late afternoon due to classes and interviews and naps and such. Fair warning. :smokin:

[Nerwen]

Also, I'd like to suspect Shasta, on the simple grounds of being Shasta... but he doesn't seem to be playing, and so that wouldn't be sporting.

Nonsense. Both Legate and I have come under heavy suspicion in games which we weren't even playing; I don't see why Shasta deserves a free pass.

Seeeeeeeeeriously... whose idea was it for the Day 1 Curmudgeon to get first post? :p

You mean... it wasn't yours?:confused:

So since Form was the first to post, he must be evil. That's how it still works, right?

One of the first three, as a rule. That means... oh no!:eek:

[Eönwë]

So since Form was the first to post, he must be evil. That's how it still works, right?

It's actually the second person, I think. :p

[Loslote]

The first round of eliminations will commence at 3 a.m. GMT tomorrow. Best of luck to all! Underlining mine.

People...it's still Night! Shh! :rolleyes:

[Nerwen]

Oh dear. I just assumed it had begun when I saw there were two posts already.

This is all your fault, Form. And possibly Mira. I hope you realise that. :p

[Eönwë]

People...it's still Night! Shh!

I was wondering about that...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Form suspects me because I wear shirts with wolves on them. *nod*

[satansaloser2005]

Underlining mine.

People...it's still Night! Shh! :rolleyes:

Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaank you.


(Yeah, I'd have plopped in ages ago but internet=rubbish. Aaaanyway....)


Silence!

[satansaloser2005]

"It is a truth universally acknowledged that a zombie in possession of brains must be in want of more brains." --Pride and Prejudice and Zombies--



Shasta was uneasy. Actually, he was about to wet himself, but if anyone asked he was shaking because he was freezing. It was the middle of the night, and something evil was lurking in the dark, he could feel it. Paranoid? Him? Never.

He walked along the alley in silence, moonlight illuminating his path. A piece of paper blew across the dimly lit street and he jumped, his heart nearly leaping into his throat. He tried to scream but could only manage a gasp, and he froze as he saw someone step into his line of sight, staring at him intently. At first glance the woman looked....well, of loose moral fiber, but he turned off his iPod and peered into the darkness. “Horror,” he mumbled, enunciating the last syllable carefully. “You scared me, you know.” The young woman shrugged and walked up to him, smiling. “Hey. You’re out late.”

“You should talk,” Alona replied. She took his arm and they made their way down the alley together.

After a bit Shasta turned his iPod back on, holding out one of the ear buds to his companion. She grinned and carefully brushed back her hair, inserting the small device before taking hold of his arm again.

“Beauty and the Beast?” she confirmed with a laugh. “You have got to be kidding me. You’ve always struck me as more of a Wicked fan.”

Shasta frowned. “Don’t you like it?”

“Meh.” Alona shrugged, but her grin dissipated as they heard a door slam. “What was that?”

“Dunno, but I’m definitely not a fan. Come on, this way.”

They walked quicker until they reached a dead end and Alona kicked the brick wall. “Great.” Shasta took her hand and she shuddered; it was far too cold out and even though Shasta was wearing gloves his fingers were still freezing. “Where are we anyway?”

“No idea,” he admitted. “I think we took a wrong turn a few blocks back.”

“Fabulous,” Alona huffed. “What now?”

“Well the sun should be up in an hour or two. We could just stay here.”

“If the door-slamming axe murderer doesn’t kill us first,” she deadpanned. Shasta glared at her, his expression barely visible by the glow from his iPod. “Sorry. Bad day.”

“Yeah, well, there’s nothing else we can do. Let’s just wait.”

Alona sighed but nodded and they settled themselves in the corner, avoiding a few stray bits of trash scattered on the concrete. There was a noise behind them and she jumped. “Shasta, what was that?!”

“I....I don’t know,” he whispered. Alona was clearly terrified and he scooted closer to her. “So,” he said, feigning carelessness, “Sally said you’d been wanting to talk to me.”

“Erm....maybe....” She shifted uncomfortably, glancing around. “Is this the best time? Really?”

“Well if you’re right about the axe murderer....”

“Not even remotely funny.”

“Right. Sorry. But what did you want?”

“It seems a bit silly now....”

“Oh, get on with it,” he said, getting a bit nervous himself as he heard the noise behind them again. “We may as well talk. Maybe I’m brainless, but I don’t see what else we can do.”

“Fine,” she sighed. “I was wondering....well, I was going to ask you out.”

“Oh.” The noise grew closer and he could now hear a soft growling. “Did you hear that too?”

“Yup,” Alona gulped. She frowned, clearly embarrassed. “I may or may not be terrified.”

“Ditto,” Shasta mumbled. He wrapped an arm around her and they both closed their eyes, holding onto each other tightly as the growling grew louder. “Alona?” he said after a moment.

“Yeah?”

“For the record....”

The growling was now clearly all around them and they could feel hot breath on their faces and exposed necks. “Maybe they were right,” Alona said, her voice shaking.

Despite his fear Shasta cracked an eye open and looked at her. “Right about what?”

“They said there’s no future for us,” Alona murmured. “Well, I’d say there’s not one now.”

“Open your eyes,” Shasta managed. He saw large claws coming toward him but ignored it as Alona looked at him he smiled. “I don’t care,” he said quietly, and he kissed her.

Alona gasped, then leaned in and kissed him back. She shut her eyes again before she could see the creatures that were obviously surrounding them and felt Shasta’s hold on her tighten until she could hardly breathe. Finally she pulled her lips from his. “Making every last moment last, are we?” she teased, shivering in his arms.

Shasta was about to reply but they were out of time. As the creatures started to rip at their flesh Shasta made one last effort to protect Alona, grabbing his iPod and turning it on, hoping to blind or at least startle one of the creatures.

“See how bright they shine,” one of them commented. It looked confused for a moment then smiled. “Help me make the music of the night?”

The others chuckled and Shasta heard the bright and happy tones of a cheesy Disney film as the creatures ripped out his and Alona’s hearts and devoured them in one bite each.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sally and Phantom stumbled out of the poorly lit street, cackling to each other as they walked along. “Come on, let’s go get some breakfast.”

“No way. I’m dead on my feet,” Sally complained, and she slid down the brick wall, flopping into an exhausted pile. Suddenly she looked up at Phantom and grinned. “Pollo madre,” she said. Phantom just stared at her as if she’d grown a second head. She pointed to her covered face in response. “Pollo madre. You like it?”

“It means mother chicken,” he said flatly. “It’s clearly a turkey. Didn’t you pay attention to the label?” Sally huffed indignantly and he laughed, sitting down beside her. “What about mine?”

Sally stared at him intently and finally smiled. “How do you say ‘big mouth’ again?” She stood up, offering Phantom a hand. He shook his head and pulled himself to his feet, gesturing to a small restaurant across the street. “Really? There? You’ve got to be joking.”

“Not the best, but better than nothing.”

“Yeah, if the alternative is eating on Mars. I’ll pass, thanks.” A few drunken boys walked by and Sally noticed that while she had been stumbling, their swagger was clearly induced by alcohol, not lack of sleep. “Morons. They’ll have a shock in the morning though.”

“Why?” Phantom asked hesitantly. “Sally, what did you do now?”

“Two of them were passed out in the hallway. I glued those devil masks to their faces.”

“Sally!” Phantom said harshly. “I can’t believe you.” He glared at her, crossing his arms. “Why didn’t you call me to help?”

“Pfffft. I could take them. Out to dinner,” she added with a chuckle. “But believe me, I did them a favor. They look better like that.”

She jumped suddenly and Phantom stared at her strangely. “Phone,” she muttered. “I forgot to turn it off vibrate. Must be....” She pulled her phone out of her pocket and grinned. “Duck!”

“Only with rice,” Phantom said flatly, and Sally rolled her eyes. “All right, where are we going?”

Sally frowned. “That’s really weird....”

“What is it?”

“Never mind,” she stuttered, “just one of those stupid forwarded texts. Whatever.”

“Lemme see,” Phantom demanded, and Sally tried to protest but he grabbed the phone from her hand. “What the heck? ‘Breakfast with Phantom, eh? I’m jealous. Well, I’d be jealous, but you won’t be having pancakes so it doesn’t matter. Haha.’ What is it?”

“Inside joke,” Sally mumbled, snatching the phone and shoving it into her pocket again. “Don’t worry about it. No more weird texts, I promise. Now let’s go.”

“Sally, why would she care about us having pancakes?”

“It doesn’t matter,” Sally insisted.

Phantom was about to press her further but they were suddenly approached by four figures in white sheets. “Worst. Costumes. Ever,” he said with a smirk. He tried to get around them but they spread themselves to fill the entire alley and he frowned. “Come on, Sally. We’ll go another way if these idiots won’t move.”

“It’s quicker this way,” Sally said, looking hesitantly from one cloaked figure to another. “Trust me, Phantom. I’ve been around enough drunks. They’ll move if we just kind of-”

The fourth figure grabbed her arm, squeezing it so tightly she winced. “What the-”

“You will curse the day you did not do all that the Phantom asked of you,” it said.

“I’ve been telling her that for months,” Phantom deadpanned, then he saw the expression on Sally’s face and stepped toward them. “Hey, let her go.”

The creature started to obey but one of its allies -the first in line- stepped out and placed a hand on its arm. “Easy now,” it said quietly, and the first figure tightened its grip on Sally’s arm. She whimpered and the figures smiled. “Hush, love, hush. Don’t distress yourself.”

“Two hearts,” the third creature said, glancing from Sally to Phantom, “mark it up.”

Phantom started toward them but the second figure held out a hand to stop him. “There will be blood,” it warned, and snarled at him as he kept walking. “It might be yours,” it added quickly.

“Phantom,” Sally hissed, “either help me or get the heck out of here.”

“Definitely the first one,” he said, although he didn’t sound entirely convinced as he realized the hand was covered with fur and ended in sharp claws. “Who are you?” he asked defiantly.

At that moment Sally’s phone rang and they both glanced down at her jacket pocket.

This is thriller, thriller night
'Cause I can thrill you more than any ghost would ever dare try
Thriller, thriller night
So let me hold you tight and share a killer, diller, chiller, thriller here tonight

'Cause this is thriller, thriller night
Girl, I can thrill you more than any ghost would ever dare try
Thriller, thriller night
So let me hold you tight and share a killer, thriller, ow!

“Society is slipping,” the second creature said flatly, pointing to Sally’s ringing phone.

Phantom took his opportunity to lunge at the creature, pinning it to the ground. “Let her go,” he said sharply, pushing the creature’s head roughly against the ground, “or else.”

“Oh, I’m in pain,” the creature whined. “I think this is what pain feels like.”

“Sometimes I wonder why I ever got in,” the third creature said with a roll of its glowing eyes. It flung its claws into the air, first one way, then the other, and shifted its weight as it prepared to pounce on Phantom.

Sally screamed and she saw the creature turn away from Phantom, instead digging its claws into her stomach. The wind was knocked out of her as she collapsed to the ground, bleeding and nauseous. “Hurts,” she managed.

“I can’t feel nothing at all,” it replied with a cheeky grin.

“It hurts,” Sally repeated.

“Ah, but there is worse yet to come, poor thing,” the first villain added, glancing down at Sally’s injuries.

“Shut up!” Phantom shouted. “Leave her alone!” He released the other creature and shoved two of them out of the way as he made his way to where Sally lay on the ground. “You all right?”

“Dumbest. Question. Ever,” Sally grunted, then her eyes widened. “Phantom, watch out!”

All four of their attackers dropped their sheets to reveal what looked like furry bodies. They were covered, however, in rhinestone jumpsuits from their necks to their pointy toes, and Sally and Phantom could only watch as they all repeated the movement they had seen before. Sally’s phone rang again but she ignored it, clutching her stomach as the creatures neared them.

....killer, diller, chiller, thriller here tonight....

The creatures arms continued to wave from one side to the other as they approached them one step at a time, the second grinning madly and giggling to itself.

“Underthings tumbling?” it asked hopefully, and its companions nodded. It licked its lips and approached Sally, smiling. “Want to say,” it mumbled, “love your hair.” Then it pounced.

“Phantom, no!” Sally screamed, but it was too late. Phantom had jumped in front of her, and what was left of him was now laying in a growing puddle of blood. His party mask slid off his now detached skull, clattering to the ground. She stared at the dark hair and then her eyes flitted to Phantom’s blonde just as the creatures took his head too. She finally passed out from the loss of blood, her eyes closing just as the creatures were ripping Phantom’s eyes from his sockets and using them as finger puppets. Needless to say, she didn’t wake up again.





The Dead
Co-Mod Shastanis Althreduin, his last moment made last on Night 0
Vote Count Girl/Co-Co-Mod Alonariel, died of a broken (well, eaten) heart on Night 0
Heckler the Phantom, went out of his British mind (and then his regular one) on Night 0
Moddess satansaloser2005, didn’t dance and died (or was thrilled) on Night 0

The Living
Brinn
Dun
Fea
Form
Glirdan
Gwath
Izzy
Lottie
Mira
Nerwen
Nienna
Nog
Pitch
Rune
Steve
Wilwa


It is now Day One. Discuss and vote and such nonsense. I’ll check the Downs periodically so PM or go to the admin thread with any questions! Game on! :D

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Marco?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Luigi?

[satansaloser2005]

Luigi?


Hello. My name is Mario. *cues theme music*


I'm going to bed. Night all, and play nice. ;)

[Nienna]

Polo?

[Inziladun]

Hmm. Quite a narrative. It's unsettling how phantom and alona managed to get iced when they're not even playing. How's that for lousy luck?
I guess anything said in the 'dry run' when people posted during the Night (:rolleyes:) should be fair game for a look. Probably nothing there, though.

[Loslote]

The Werewolf Hunting Song!

Lottie: "Everybody's going werewolf hunting now, some are fast but some are slow.
Oh where'd we get them? I don't know, but everybody's going werewolf hunt-iiiiiiiiing.
I went a hunting in the store, got his head stuck in the door, spilled
some lima beans on the floor. Oh everybody's going ..."

Lucyyenic: "Stop it, stop, stop right this instant! What do you think
you're doing? You can't tell the newbies to go werewolf hunting when everyone
has not gone a werewolf hunting! We're going to get nasty pms saying,
"Where are my evil werewolves? Why don't I have a werewolf pack to hunt?" And are
you prepared to deal with that? I don't think so! Just stop being so silly!"

Narrator: "This has been Silly Songs with Lottie. Tune in next time to
hear Lottie sing ..."

Lottie: "Everypack's got a newbie werewolf, yours is pink but mine is blue.
Hers was small but - "

[Nerwen]

I guess anything said in the 'dry run' when people posted during the Night (:rolleyes:) should be fair game for a look.

Of course. I find Shasta's comment about "wearing a wolf shirt" highly suspicious.

The real question is, what does this do to the "first three posts" principle?

EDIT: X'd with Lottie.

[Loslote]

Hmm. Quite a narrative. It's unsettling how phantom and alona managed to get iced when they're not even playing. How's that for lousy luck?
I guess anything said in the 'dry run' when people posted during the Night (:rolleyes:) should be fair game for a look. Probably nothing there, though.

No, not much...except for the fact that it happened at all. Form is an experienced player. Why would he forget that we always start on a Night phase? To suggest "I forgot about the Night, ergo I must not have any reason to remember it, ergo I am no wolf"? Or just because he was tired and not thinking clearly?

Mira posted next, bringing up the age-old argument of "he posted first = evil", then warning that she would be a bit quieter than usual. Jury's still out on what that looks like.

Nerwen mentions the suspicion she and Legate came under during games they did not play in as a reason to suspect Shasta, who is not playing in this game, plus is a co-mod. (I totally support this. I am so not voting for him toDay. I say we lynch him with our non-votes! Who's with me? :p ) She then jokes with Form and Mira. Nerwen looks so far the best of the lot. She then pushes blame (jokingly, I think) onto Mira and Form.

Steve banters with Nerwen and Mira. After my "It's still Night, shut it!" post, he says that he wondered about that. He hasn't played for a while, though, so I can see him being confused by other people posting and assuming that something had changed. I don't think he looks too suspicious, but I don't think he looks good, either.

EDIT: xed with Nerwen

[Mirandir]

Hellooooo my dears! With any luck, I should be around for the next couple hours at least. Have to leave work first though so nothing legitimate to contribute at the moment.

[Loslote]

Of course. I find Shasta's comment about "wearing a wolf shirt" highly suspicious.

The real question is, what does this do to the "first three posts" principle?

Aha! Proof! We must lynch Shasta. :smokin:

It extends to all the people who posted during the Night. We're ALL evil. ;)

EDIT: xed with Mira.

[Loslote]

I've got to run, but I'll be here for a while later tonight.

[Inziladun]

No, not much...except for the fact that it happened at all. Form is an experienced player. Why would he forget that we always start on a Night phase? To suggest "I forgot about the Night, ergo I must not have any reason to remember it, ergo I am no wolf"? Or just because he was tired and not thinking clearly?

I've only played with Form once before, but it is difficult to see him forgetting about the Night Phase. Then again, it's also hard to see someone like him coming up with such a convoluted plot to appear innocent, if he was a wolf

It extends to all the people who posted during the Night. We're ALL evil. ;)

Well, there is it then! Thanks for the admission. ;)

Going to bed now myself. Here's hoping for some interesting stuff to read upon my return.

x/d with Lottie

[Nerwen]

Now, a serious response.

It's very unlikely a wolf posted last Night by mistake. One (or more) might, as Lottie suggests, have done it on purpose to look like a clueless ordo. On the other hand, that sort of thing has actually brought people under suspicion in the past, cf. Roa's getting the number of wolves wrong a couple of games back. I'm not sure a wolf would try it this time.

On yet another hand (Hey! Where'd this third arm come from?:() it probably wouldn't be a great idea to write off all the Night posters as good guys for that reason either– one tends to come unstuck with meta-reasoning.

EDIT:X'd with Zil.

[Nienna]

I agree with Nerwen. The people who posted pre-Day are under just as much suspicion as the rest of us. Maybe in a few days that information can be used in conjunction with other evidence but for now they could be anything.

[Glirdan]

On yet another hand (Hey! Where'd this third arm come from?)

That's it, Nerwen's got an oddity, let's lynch her! :p

On a slightly more serious note, however, I am also inclined to believe that at least one Wolf posted pre-Day. On the flip side, however, it could simply have been a lapse in memory (or ability to check time zone differences :p) and thus the posting began. But as Nerwen said, we can't write them off as innocent just yet either.

That's really all I have for now. Gotta run right now, should be back on shortly before going to bed though.

[Mirandir]

I agree with Nerwen. The people who posted pre-Day are under just as much suspicion as the rest of us. Maybe in a few days that information can be used in conjunction with other evidence but for now they could be anything.

As one of those pre-Day posters, ima go ahead and meagerly offer the excuse that some people don't read the difference between AM and PM *coughhackme* and saw that someone else had posted and assumed it was okay. /excuses

[Glirdan]

Okay, well I am off for the night. I will be back tomorrow, but not till much later in the Day due to school and such. See you all then.

[Nerwen]

That's it, Nerwen's got an oddity, let's lynch her! :p

The prejudice I have to cope with! If only humans and three-armed mutants could live together in peace!:(

As one of those pre-Day posters, ima go ahead and meagerly offer the excuse that some people don't read the difference between AM and PM *coughhackme* and saw that someone else had posted and assumed it was okay. /excuses

Same here. So, from my own perspective, I know it's indeed possible to get confused like that. But as I also said, I'm not willing to make any judgement either way about the rest of you at this stage.

Unfortunately, other than the timing-oddity, the Night–posts seem like typical content-free Day One banter (except for Shasta's, which was practically a confession, if you ask me).

So, moving on– is it too early to start considering possible Simons? I think not.

The candidate I have the honour to propose is fun (just look at her quiz thread (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=16266)), creative (see her unique take on the story of Nimrodel and Amroth (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622744&postcount=11)), and honest (did she deny it when Mith asked if she were a spambot? She did not!).

The choice is clear.

÷lucyyenic for Simon÷

I, for one, welcome our new spambot overlords!:cool:

EDIT:bolding

[Loslote]

On a slightly more serious note, however, I am also inclined to believe that at least one Wolf posted pre-Day. On the flip side, however, it could simply have been a lapse in memory (or ability to check time zone differences) and thus the posting began. But as Nerwen said, we can't write them off as innocent just yet either.

I do think so. Either innocent!Formy posted by mistake (and I'd like to see his explaination for that before I consider him innocent) and wolf!RandomPoster saw this as an opportunity to...actually, that kind of falls apart. What would a wolf gain from posing early? Formy is starting to look like the only possible wolf in the bunch, just because he has a potential reason why he might post during the Night - to act like a clueless ordo, as I have said earlier.

As one of those pre-Day posters, ima go ahead and meagerly offer the excuse that some people don't read the difference between AM and PM *coughhackme* and saw that someone else had posted and assumed it was okay. /excuses

I assume most of the people who followed suit did forget. I still, however, feel uneasy considering you early posters...and I don't know why, because there doesn't seem to be a logical reason for it.

It's very unlikely a wolf posted last Night by mistake. One (or more) might, as Lottie suggests, have done it on purpose to look like a clueless ordo. On the other hand, that sort of thing has actually brought people under suspicion in the past, cf. Roa's getting the number of wolves wrong a couple of games back. I'm not sure a wolf would try it this time.

On yet another hand (Hey! Where'd this third arm come from?) it probably wouldn't be a great idea to write off all the Night posters as good guys for that reason either– one tends to come unstuck with meta-reasoning.

I don't think more than one wolf would have posted among such a small group. It was, technically, still Night, so they would have been able to pm and plot mischief...and they wouldn't have lumped so many figurative eggs in one basket.

I've only played with Form once before, but it is difficult to see him forgetting about the Night Phase. Then again, it's also hard to see someone like him coming up with such a convoluted plot to appear innocent, if he was a wolf.

Why would Formy not have come up with such a complicated plot? And why is it complicated? Look utterly clueless by forgetting the Night = no Night business = no wolf. Very simple. Very clever. Might have worked.

Same here. So, from my own perspective, I know it's indeed possible to get confused like that. But as I also said, I'm not willing to make any judgement either way about the rest of you at this stage.

Unfortunately, other than the timing-oddity, the Night–posts seem like typical content-free Day One banter (except for Shasta's, which was practically a confession, if you ask me).

1. It was possible. I know I had a moment of quiet panic, trying to figure out if Day really had started, and several of the Night posters are probably innocent. But I don't think everyone is. And I don't know which is which, although I am leaning towards Formy maybe being evil and Mira and Nerwen maybe being innocent. I have no idea about Steve.

2. Definitely a confession. Maybe he's trying to Nilp himself.

[Isabellkya]

What a fantastic plot. xD

I don't think every game has to start with a Night Phase. I think I recall a few that have started with Day phases.


.. and thats it.

[Loslote]

What a fantastic plot. xD

I don't think every game has to start with a Night Phase. I think I recall a few that have started with Day phases.


.. and thats it.

Really? That might change things. If Formy was used to starting with Day phases... Hey, Formy, which way do you normally start?

EDIT: I did not x, it's been slow, I'm tired, and I'm off to bed. See you all later toDay, but I'll be back about an hour and a half before dl.

[Nogrod]

let's lynch her! :pLet me remind you that it will not be that easy to lynch a specific person in this game... at least it will require more co-operation than in normal games.

I think one decent thing to do on this D1 - so as not to just complain about D1's in general (oh Form, you never fail!) - would be for us to think about for example how the wolves would like to use the popularity-vote frame to possibly undermine their nice tries... or think if there is any foolproof way of fex. getting someone lynched (eg. how to lynch the wolf the seer has dreamt of)?

[Nogrod]

So the rules say that if there are four or more people tied at the end of the Day there will be no lynch at all. Let's be careful to avoid that. The need of spreading votes is quite urgent in this game - it's like the mirror-image of a normal game where we need some concentration.

I think we are also forced to follow our guts more than normally. I mean it's easier to spot one that looks guilty and vote for her/him than decide that all those it's hard to say are probably more innocent than not... at least to me it is. :)

The good side of course is that if we play it reasonably any mayhem the wolves might wish to try at the end of the Day should be spottable. But that again requires that everyone is fully aware of the situation when voting.

So read the thread people. :p

[Nerwen]

Let me remind you that it will not be that easy to lynch a specific person in this game... at least it will require more co-operation than in normal games.

I think one decent thing to do on this D1 - so as not to just complain about D1's in general (oh Form, you never fail!) - would be for us to think about for example how the wolves would like to use the popularity-vote frame to possibly undermine their nice tries... or think if there is any foolproof way of fex. getting someone lynched (eg. how to lynch the wolf the seer has dreamt of)?

Well, nobody's going to vote for a dreamed wolf this game. So it would be a matter of arranging it so that everyone else got at least one vote. Anyone trying to sabotage that would look pretty furry. However, if things were left too late, it might be possible for the wolves to "accidentally" vote the wrong people, and then blame it on the last-minute rush. Thus, the Seer would need to reveal fairly early in the Day.

All the same, that's relatively simple. What I don't like is our chance of getting an un-dreamed wolf in the early part of the game.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

On a slightly more serious note, however, I am also inclined to believe that at least one Wolf posted pre-Day. On the flip side, however, it could simply have been a lapse in memory (or ability to check time zone differences :p) and thus the posting began. But as Nerwen said, we can't write them off as innocent just yet either.


Glirdan. . .You are alive!?

Why are you inclined to belive that there is atleast 1 wolf amongst the pre-day posters? Why not be inclined to belive that there is atleast 2 3/4 ?

Is there any reasoning behind that number or are you just saying things?

I do think so. Either innocent!Formy posted by mistake (and I'd like to see his explaination for that before I consider him innocent) and wolf!RandomPoster saw this as an opportunity to...actually, that kind of falls apart. What would a wolf gain from posing early? Formy is starting to look like the only possible wolf in the bunch, just because he has a potential reason why he might post during the Night - to act like a clueless ordo, as I have said earlier.


I have a hard time imagining a Furry-Formendacil breaking the rules in order to look good, those of us that have met him knows that it will take alot more efford to make him look even half decent (you need make up and stuff). It simply seems out of character for him.


I am of course not saying that they should be considered known innocents, but I will not condemn them for their actions.

[Glirdan]

Okay, so I have enough time to pop on before school, so I will quickly respond to Rune.


Glirdan. . .You are alive!?

1. I'm as a shocked as you!! :p :rolleyes:


Why are you inclined to belive that there is atleast 1 wolf amongst the pre-day posters? Why not be inclined to belive that there is atleast 2 3/4 ?

Is there any reasoning behind that number or are you just saying things?

2. No, 1 is the number I am more inclined to believe. If it was a tactic used by the Wolves to try and throw off some suspicion, I have doubts that more then 1 of them would have used it.

However, this is just my opinion. It is quite possible that more then one Wolf posted pre-Day.

Anyways, that is all from me for now, need to get to school!

EDIT: Grammar and such

[Brinniel]

I have another five hours working at a very boring job, which means plenty of time to kill. That's good, because otherwise I typically won't have much time to post (three weeks into the semester and already the teachers are piling on the work :rolleyes: ).

So if I'm clear on this, we have four votes which we can use on players we'd like to keep around, right? Now I'm assuming we have the option to spread out our four votes or make them all at once, though nothing was specifically said on that matter. I'd imagine spreading out our votes would be the smarter thing to do. If several players make all four votes at once at the end of the Day, that could lead to disaster.

As for all this Day/Night confusion that happened at the beginning, I don't think it really says anything of anyone's roles. A wolf could just as easily make that mistake as an ordo. Perhaps if there were no PM exchanges between the wolves yet, one (or more) simply assumed the Day had already begun. I don't know if a wolf would pretend to post ignorantly to make them look better. It's against the rules to post during a Night phase, and while it's one thing if it's just an honest mistake, I think it'd be rather unsporty to post knowing you're not supposed to just so you can fake ignorance and look better once the Day actually begins.

Oh and Glirdan, did they really lynch you on Day 1 last game? I remember there were a few who joked about lynching you Day 1, but I didn't think they'd actually do it. Meanies. :p

[Nienna]

I think Nog is right about the amount of cooperation it is going to take to lynch the wolves in this game. This worries me a little just because trying to get this many people to cooperate when there aren't evil ones in the midst would be a pain. We need to focus and make very conscious decisions about who to vote for. We need to look at everyone including the people who are quiet or who haven't even posted at all. We need to make sure that the votes are spread (I never thought I'd hear myself say that!). There is going to be a lot of confusion at Day's end even with the cautions against it. It is inevitable. It will be much too easy to get someone not-killed by both the innocent and the guilty alike.

We also need to think clearly about who we want as Simon though not necessarily use all our votes for people we think would make good Simons as we need to also vote for people we just don't want to die.

[Inziladun]

Well, nobody's going to vote for a dreamed wolf this game. So it would be a matter of arranging it so that everyone else got at least one vote. Anyone trying to sabotage that would look pretty furry. However, if things were left too late, it might be possible for the wolves to "accidentally" vote the wrong people, and then blame it on the last-minute rush. Thus, the Seer would need to reveal fairly early in the Day.

Hopefully a Seer-reveal will be entirely unnecessary. But if someone did vote for a wolf obtained from a Seer dream, they'd be in the hot seat, no matter their excuse.

What I don't like is our chance of getting an un-dreamed wolf in the early part of the game.

Well, it's about the same odds as usual, isn't it? It is going to take a bit more heads up thinking though to spread out the votes wisely, along the lines of what Nog said.

As for all this Day/Night confusion that happened at the beginning, I don't think it really says anything of anyone's roles. A wolf could just as easily make that mistake as an ordo. Perhaps if there were no PM exchanges between the wolves yet, one (or more) simply assumed the Day had already begun. I don't know if a wolf would pretend to post ignorantly to make them look better. It's against the rules to post during a Night phase, and while it's one thing if it's just an honest mistake, I think it'd be rather unsporty to post knowing you're not supposed to just so you can fake ignorance and look better once the Day actually begins.

This makes sense. If the wolves were PMing it follows they should have been clear it was Night, and no posting was allowed. But who knows that but they?
Sally said in the opening post:

The first round of eliminations will commence at 3 a.m. GMT tomorrow. Best of luck to all!

Saying 'eliminations' would begin about 24 hours from that time led me to believe that was when Day would begin. Since every game I've been in has had a Night phase first, I took it that this was no different. Izzy said that some games have begun with Day, though. So I still don't know that the 'illegal' posters can necessarily be classified one way or the other.

[Nogrod]

First I thought I would just ignore that false-start, but now reading your comments and thinking of it again, I'm beginning to think it might be actually quite good to hear from everyone there why was it they posted.

Also, there is a major difference I think between Form who started and Mira, Nerwen & Eönwë who followed.

But let's not speculate on the possible reasons before they have a chance to answer themselves. If there is lycantrophy involved I wouldn't like to give a wolf an argument...

We need to look at everyone including the people who are quiet or who haven't even posted at all.What I said... if we have fex. four quiet people who don't take part in the discussion we just need to differentiate between them as not to affect a no-lynch! How to do that?

So please post people!

There is going to be a lot of confusion at Day's end even with the cautions against it. It is inevitable.Exactly. That's why I said everyone should read the thread and know the situation before voting. This is indeed a different game and the whole dynamic is different.

So please read people!

[Nogrod]

Okay. We're going to have some fun here as Lommy & Greenie are at my place, but I will come back when they go to sleep.


Just a few thoughts on people on the fly.

If I had to vote now, I'd probably vote for Brinn, Nienna and Nerwen for their reasonable points. Inzil might take my last vote.

With Lottie I'm a bit insecure. She has been very active and provided things to think about - so therefore I'd wish to see her continue the game. But it just struck me that if she is a wolf (and was thus perfectly aware of the fact that the people posting there were mistaken) it would have been relatively good idea for her to make a public note of it! I don't know, I'm pretty good at getting her wrong as well.

But happily it's still early on the Day and hopefully more people will join the discussion so that it would be easier to form opinions on you.


Btw. concerning the votes. It would be quite reasonable for everyone to use all their votes toDay so that the possibility of there remaining four people without votes would be smaller. And of course those voting late should take care nothing like that happens...

I'll be back in a few hours.

[satansaloser2005]

I don't care either way but for both Alona's sanity (bless her!) and that of all you lot you could probably highlight your votes. Just sayin'.



Oh, and nice parody, Lottie! :D

[Pitchwife]

What, no 10 pages yet? And very little banter, actually. There's still hope...
Concerning the question of pre-Day posting, I was a little confused myself by this:
Also, I won't be here for DL 'cause I have church, but I'll put up the narration straightaway when I get back so as soon as it hits 3 a.m. GMT (in eight hours) feel free to chat it up or do whatever. Enjoy!
(Underlining mine)
"Chat it up" must have referred to the wolves' PMing, but at the time it looked to me like we were starting with a Day phase. There have been precedents, and considering who's modding this, I think there's precious little we can take for granted.
Of course it's entirely possible that there's a wolf among the pre-Day posters, but the pre-Day posting per se is no evidence of lupinity. On the other hand, grabbing a straw like that and blowing it up into a suspicion could be exactly that. (Wait, how do you blow up a straw? I need to be more careful with my metaphors...) On the gripping hand* (mutants of the world unite!), the discussion had to be started somehow...
More to follow.

*Nerwen, ever read The Mote in God's Eye?

[the phantom]

I think it's laughable that you all have put your names down for a "Most Popular Downer" competition. If you were truly impressive and notable, the very idea of competing for approval from the masses would cause you to become physically ill.

Ah, but perhaps I'm being too hasty in writing you off immediately. Everyone must start somewhere... I suppose it's possible that there is one of you who does have what it takes but simply has not gained the necessary wisdom and attitude to be one of the elite. If you truly believe you are destined for great things, you had better pay attention during this little adventure. You can learn much.

I'll check in on you all later, but for now, I'll leave with you four points.

1) Very bad form coming in early like that, Form. One of the most important traits of a great Downer is timing. There is a time for seriousness, a time for flirting, a time for joking, as well as the often ignored time for silence. There are instances when posting before/after a deadline is actually the right thing to do in the grand scheme of things, but not at the very start.

2) And then there's Mira, Nerwen, and Steve. You three are guilty of speaking out of turn as well, but your mistake is worse than Form's, as you not only displayed bad timing, but herd mentality as well. The great do not follow!

3) And to Loslote- don't be an insufferable rule-kissing nag. While it may have been wrong for the others to speak when they did, it is an even worse crime to assume laws and rules are always right and should always be followed strictly. Those who are overly eager to chide others for rule-breaking usually have that sort of mindset- the absolute wrong mindset for achieving greatness. You should be looking for opportunities to take advantage of rule-breaking yourself rather than policing others.

4) Barely even one page of posting and half the day gone... Pitiful! I could have posted that much all by myself.

[Eönwë]

OK, well firstly, since it has been called into question:

Sally said:
The first round of eliminations will commence at 3 a.m. GMT tomorrow. Best of luck to all!
I saw two veteran and one quite experienced WW players post on the thread.
I have heard of the existence of Day 0s, but have never played a game with any.
I assumed that since those three had posted, and it only said "first round of elimination", mentioning nothing if posting, that it was Day 0.

[Formendacil]

Heh--look at that! Eönwë just called me a veteran!

That's probably your problem right there--WWIII is about to start, and you're looking at what the veteran of WWII is doing. He's old and senile and should be paid no heed.

So... yeah... me-posting-early. I'm afraid I have no crafty plan to reveal... indeed, no uncrafty plan either. Just about every game I've played (but not every game, I think) started on a Night phase, and I would have assumed the same here. However, the fact of the matter is that I simply wasn't thinking--a couple of people mentioned in chatting that "hey, look, the WW game has started" and I went straight into thinking "oh, I should go post before bedtime."

And I did...

Of course, I could throw in the metagame reasonings beyond that why I'd be distracted: I'm playing to appease Sally, in the middle of a rather busy time in life, full of vocational angst (as the Bostonmooters all ought to guess), and papers, and... well, it's been a while since I've played. It's not a question of what I was thinking, but rather than I wasn't thinking.

Of course, this has really no bearing on whether or not I'm a wolf or not... I could be just as forgetful and scatterbrained, really, as a wolf forgetting about Night 1 as an Ordo forgetting about Night 1.






Oh... I mean... uh... if I have to treat of this like a celebrity: "I deny the whole thing, but I'm checking into rehab, anyway. Buy my movies and albums."

[Eönwë]

Firstly, the main difference between this and other games is that instead of voting who we want to go, we're voting who we want to say. This means that instead of having to not seem guilty as in the usual game, you actually have to try to seem useful and get people's confidence.

This means that it will be harder for wolves to hide as submarines, because if they don't post convincingly, they won't get any of the precious votes to keep them alive. So probably we'll see more activity from everyone, as everyone needs to try to justify their place. This is in theory, but in reality it seems that we have less than two pages so far, with under a quarter of the day left.

On the other hand, this new way of playing means that there will be less of a difference between the way that ordos and wolves post, because everyone will be thinking the way a wolf does, and so will try to get the confidence of the village as much as possible. It also means that people will be less likely to do crazy posts that leave everyone confused, because less people will be likely to vote for that sort of person past Day 1. In other words, being confusing and unhelpful is probably much more risky in this game, meaning that ordos will act more like wolves try to, and the wolves will probably try harder to look useful.

My opening thoughts for now... sadly no third point yet so I can't join the Three-Handed-Mutant Society.


edit: x-ed wi' Form

[Pitchwife]

Ah, the Heckler has spoken! I was beginning to wonder when we would hear from him...

Just noticed something - in the narration, last Night was referred to as Night 0, which implies that toDay is Day 0, not Day 1. Any ideas what that means?

About strategy - Nog has made some good points about spreading the votes etc., but I'd like to note that the regular approach of keeping the people who're active and contributing is a little more problematic in this game than usual. It's one thing to not quite lynch them yet, but it's quite another to run the risk that an active and reasonable-looking wolf may be elected to the Simony (or whatever it should be properly called), giving them power to mess with our votes on the next Day. Unfortunately, I don't yet see how to minimize that risk. Suggestions?

(x-ed with Stevonwë, who also comments on the Day 0 thing)

EDIT: also x-ed with Form and another Stevonwë)

[satansaloser2005]

Ah, the Heckler has spoken! I was beginning to wonder when we would hear from him...

Just noticed something - in the narration, last Night was referred to as Night 0, which implies that toDay is Day 0, not Day 1. Any ideas what that means

It means the moddess is silly and likes to start at 0 rather than 1, that's all. ToDay is Day 1.



And yes, the Phantom has spoken. ^_^

[Nienna]

About strategy - Nog has made some good points about spreading the votes etc., but I'd like to note that the regular approach of keeping the people who're active and contributing is a little more problematic in this game than usual. It's one thing to not quite lynch them yet, but it's quite another to run the risk that an active and reasonable-looking wolf may be elected to the Simony (or whatever it should be properly called), giving them power to mess with our votes on the next Day. Unfortunately, I don't yet see how to minimize that risk. Suggestions?

Electing a wolf as Simon won't be good but I also don't think it would be tragic... at least not at this stage of the game. We need to use our votes to pick someone who would be reasonable as Simon but we also need to make sure we use our votes to lynch someone. That is how we will get rid of wolves. That is how we will win.

[Pitchwife]

It means the moddess is silly and likes to start at 0 rather than 1, that's all. ToDay is Day 1.
I'm disappointed.:confused:
In fact, this game has been unnervingly sane up to now. You do realize you've got a reputation to live up to, don't you?

Speaking of sanity...
On the other hand, this new way of playing means that there will be less of a difference between the way that ordos and wolves post, because everyone will be thinking the way a wolf does, and so will try to get the confidence of the village as much as possible. It also means that people will be less likely to do crazy posts that leave everyone confused, because less people will be likely to vote for that sort of person past Day 1. In other words, being confusing and unhelpful is probably much more risky in this game, meaning that ordos will act more like wolves try to, and the wolves will probably try harder to look useful.
So maybe we should actually vote for the crazy and confusing people?

[wilwarin538]

Here and reading....

[Eönwë]

So maybe we should actually vote for the crazy and confusing people?

Well, as an ordo you have less to lose if you die than if you are a wolf, so maybe, unless it's a very confident wolf. Of course, the person you are voting might just be crazy and confusing anyway, so I don't really think that'll work. :p

Electing a wolf as Simon won't be good but I also don't think it would be tragic... at least not at this stage of the game.
True... early on two votes can easily be overruled, but the further the game goes, the more power the Simon will have.

[Inziladun]

With Lottie I'm a bit insecure. She has been very active and provided things to think about - so therefore I'd wish to see her continue the game. But it just struck me that if she is a wolf (and was thus perfectly aware of the fact that the people posting there were mistaken) it would have been relatively good idea for her to make a public note of it! I don't know, I'm pretty good at getting her wrong as well.

That's something to be considered, at least. Coming across as the straight arrow who has to wrangle the outlaws back into line could be seen as good public relations for a wolf.
On the other hand, I too have a track record of reading Lottie incorrectly, so I hesitate to focus on that too much at the moment.

Electing a wolf as Simon won't be good but I also don't think it would be tragic... at least not at this stage of the game. We need to use our votes to pick someone who would be reasonable as Simon but we also need to make sure we use our votes to lynch someone. That is how we will get rid of wolves. That is how we will win.

Those last two sentences look strange to me. Rather forced, and a subtle 'I'm no wolf' between the lines.

[wilwarin538]

Ok, so the Night posters totally mixed me up yesterday when I saw people posting, cause I had it written in my day planner that yesterday was a Night phase (yes, I keep track of WW stuff in my dayplanner :smokin:). I was going to post until I saw that Lottie pointed out that it was still Night time. My point? That I don't find Mira, Eonwe and Nerwen's actions suspicious because I was quite close to doing the same thing. They probably saw someone had posted and just thought it was ok. Form, I really don't think would do someone like that as a wolf just to make himself look good, that just doesn't seem plausible to me. So basically I'm not really focusing on that whole situation from this point on.

I agree with the submarine thing, someone could very well be innocent but if they don't stand out in anyone's mind then they won't get votes, and then they're done for. So talk people! We could very easily lynch someone who we don't necessarily find suspicious but we just haven't noticed, and that's kinda scary. So we really have to go into this a bit differently then usual. We usually focus on who we find suspicious, but now we have to focus on who we all like. It's so backwards and consusing, I just love it! :D

Gotta run for a bit, but I'll be back soon!

x'ed with inzil

[Isabellkya]

I don't think that the people whom posted during the Night is that huuge of a deal, and will lead to some divine revelation of wolfship.

It looks like it was a general mistaken error, and I agree with those whom have said - I doubt someone would knowingly post during the Night, just to make themselves look better.


Would it be skirting and or bending the rules, if we had a bigway tie for toDay, and thus no one would go to the noose?

[Nogrod]

I agree with the submarine thing, someone could very well be innocent but if they don't stand out in anyone's mind then they won't get votes, and then they're done for.And that's the ingenuinity of this game! If this works (remains to be seen), I'll be suggesting we make this kind of games more often as now it seems that one really needs to post to stay on with the game.


But just an idea then.

Now Sally seemed to request we highlight our votes of confidence.

So how about we come up with a marking of our own to indicate whom everyone of us would like to lynch? I think it would be a good idea if everyone also told the others whom they would like to see lynched already on this Day - and hopefully also why. In that way we could lessen the erratic nature of the last hour choices a little bit more?

Especially if we have people who can only turn out at the last moments of the Day they would have it easier just scrolling the thread and see why some people would like to see some others lynched (if people write long posts and their points are just in the middle of them unmarked a fast skimmer might just miss them).

If someone doesn't get that highlight-rule they might go for the traditional bolding with two pluses, so we should have to come up with some other solution for our unofficial lynch-votes.

How about we marked them like this?

-- Nogrod

or

lynch Nogrod

Both would be clear, visible and still no one could mess it up with a vote of confidence (with two pluses & highlighting)?

What do you think?

[Nogrod]

Would it be skirting and or bending the rules, if we had a bigway tie for toDay, and thus no one would go to the noose?The wolves love every lynch where no one dies as that leaves the decision over who dies to them.

Every lynch that doesn't happen means zero wolves killed. Every Night-kill (succesful or not) means zero wolves killed.

We can err of course and oftentimes we do, but lynching is our only weapon against the wolves (except hunters, but they're for kind of "one time use" only :().

[Eönwë]

So how about we come up with a marking of our own to indicate whom everyone of us would like to lynch? I think it would be a good idea if everyone also told the others whom they would like to see lynched already on this Day - and hopefully also why. In that way we could lessen the erratic nature of the last hour choices a little bit more?

That is quite a good idea, and would be quite practical, but it does seem to go against the whole spirit of this game, because it makes us look at who we want to kill rather than who we want to save, which is the point of this game. Also, it might make some things clearer, but it will also make the mayhem near DL even more chaotic than it would be in this game.

I also think that if we focus on those two sides, then we'll totally forget about the people in the middle, who, if any are wolves, will have a chance to sneak by with one or two votes. If we just focus on those we want to save, it means that those we're not saving need to work harder. If we do decide who we want to lynch it will make the middle people slightly safer.

[Nienna]

I think Nog has an interesting idea. I don't know as it has to be something as [not] "official" as bolding or using -- but it is definitely a good idea for people to bring up who they think should be lynched and why so that we aren't just all scrambling and so that we have a sense of purpose.

In some respects it might be a touch easier as I usually find myself thinking that a few people seem innocent but I can't put my finger on one specific person who looks guilty... at least in the beginning stages. But we'll see.


Edit: Crossed with Steve

[Gwathagor]

And that's the ingenuinity of this game! If this works (remains to be seen), I'll be suggesting we make this kind of games more often as now it seems that one really needs to post to stay on with the game.



Blast. There goes my usual strategy of saying as little as possible. It will be interesting to see how this affects folks' playing styles, since it behooves us all, to some extent, to TRY to attract attention. Even though I know meta-game reasoning is a bad idea, I'm going to be tempted to compare how players are playing in this game with their ordinary playing styles.

It also occurs to me, on another note, that it will be much easier for the wolves to get someone lynched during the day without attracting attention, and much, much harder to assign blame for a player's lynch to any one or two other players. All the wolves have to do is ignore the intended victim. So - time to reassess how we analyze votes. Who are people trying to keep around? Who are they not mentioning in their posts? Et cetera.

EDIT: Crossed since post #58.

[Nogrod]

Firstly, the main difference between this and other games is that instead of voting who we want to go, we're voting who we want to say. This means that instead of having to not seem guilty as in the usual game, you actually have to try to seem useful and get people's confidence.You're hitting the nail in the head here Eönwë.

I'd like to make just one add-on to that.

I was just a while ago championing this new way of playing as a way to make the submarines post and be active, but with a second thought I can see the downside of this as well.

In order to get people's confidence - or good-will, if you wish - the wolves (and ordos as well) need to be smooth and liked eg. they can't afford suspecting others heavily. And that attitude could kill a game.

We need suspicions to get reactions, we need openly argued suspicions to see where a wolf might try to hide, we need suspicions to get things rolling... even if the official votes will be votes of confidence.

It's Day1 to be sure, but how many suspicions have you registered thus far? How many posts have been posted thus far?

It might be not only because of the timezones or sudden RL-hindrances. The game-mechanics encourage a kind of "be easy", "do not meddle with other people" way of playing so as not to get bad publicity? If it is that, it works into the hands of the wolves.

So let's change that.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I don't think that the people whom posted during the Night is that huuge of a deal, and will lead to some divine revelation of wolfship.

It looks like it was a general mistaken error, and I agree with those whom have said - I doubt someone would knowingly post during the Night, just to make themselves look better.


Would it be skirting and or bending the rules, if we had a bigway tie for toDay, and thus no one would go to the noose?


But that would make Shasta sad. You don't want to make Shasta sad, do you?

[Eönwë]

[Seem to have clicked submit too soon. So, as I was saying:]

If we do have a system of showing who we want to lynch, it draws attention away from those in who aren't in the list and who have only received a few votes of confidence. It means that these people may be able to last for quite a few days with only a few votes and remain undetected. Of course, we'll still have the same problem now, but now no-one who isn't voted is safe and have to work to gain the village's confidence, but if we do the lynch-thing, people that aren't on there will be "safe" and will probably not be looked at as much as those under suspicion.

I think this game should be a chance to try the "you get what you work for" attitude, at least for the first Day. It'll be interesting to see how the capitalist ideology fits in with WW.

[Pitchwife]

So how about we come up with a marking of our own to indicate whom everyone of us would like to lynch?
What's the point of first applauding the ingenuity of this game, then suggesting to introduce a classical lynch vote through the back door? Who gets no vote is lynched, period. No need for any extra votes or markings (unless you want to confuse poor alona, who's suffered quite enough recently by having her heart eaten and all that).

Going with the point Eönwë made about modified wolvish behaviour in #48, I must say most of you are acting much too reasonable and eager to help for my peace of mind right now (not that I'm a shiny exception myself, I suppose). Obviously you can't all be wolves, but at the moment I'm tempted to vote for one or two of the quieter and weirder people, just in case.

[satansaloser2005]

I'm disappointed.:confused:
In fact, this game has been unnervingly sane up to now. You do realize you've got a reputation to live up to, don't you?

Speaking of sanity...

So maybe we should actually vote for the crazy and confusing people?

Tell me how I could top my last game and I'll do it. Until then, hush. Nyah.

I don't think that the people whom posted during the Night is that huuge of a deal, and will lead to some divine revelation of wolfship.

It looks like it was a general mistaken error, and I agree with those whom have said - I doubt someone would knowingly post during the Night, just to make themselves look better.


Would it be skirting and or bending the rules, if we had a bigway tie for toDay, and thus no one would go to the noose?

It'd be perfectly legal, but I'd be very cross with you if you did it on purpose.

But that would make Shasta sad. You don't want to make Shasta sad, do you?

What he said.

[Isabellkya]

I tend to always look at it numerically. On the first Day, the chances of getting a wolf are slim. It does happen, but it is the exception, not the rule.

On another side. This style can heavily "reward" those that are on the louder side. If you get noticed by a lot of banter, and not so much actual posting - then you might get votes to be saved. But should one whom is banterloud be saved above one whom may be quiet, but no banter? How do you figure in the possible lupine genes into that?


X'd with Miss Moddess, Pitchwife, Eonwe, and Mr. CoMod.

[Eönwë]

The game-mechanics encourage a kind of "be easy", "do not meddle with other people" way of playing so as not to get bad publicity? If it is that, it works into the hands of the wolves.

Ah, but does it? It forces everyone (including the wolves) to the forefront, and once something happens, people will feel like they have to make a "useful" contribution, and then it will be more easy to find suspicious responses.

Of course, that is not to say we should not talk about our suspicions. Of course that's not the case- suspicions are the most important thing we have. But by focusing on the positive (the people we find innocent), it will force people to talk more and about who they trust (which doesn't happen often, or even ever, in a normal game) and so by a certain point we will have a lot to go on, maybe even more evidence than in a normal game (on the other hand, the spreading out of votes makes it harder to see who they like).

So basically, I think that because the nature of the game is positive, focusing too much on the negative early on will complicate matters further. Later on (Day 3 probably, Day 2 is barely ever productive even normally), we will have a lot more evidence with which to incriminate people, but for now it is probably best to focus on the positive side this early on.

[Pitchwife]

Tell me how I could top my last game and I'll do it. Until then, hush. Nyah.
You're quite right, sorry. Damn consumer mentality getting the better of me...

[Nogrod]

I was just thinking very highly of you Eönwë but then you posted again and I'm not so sure anymore... :rolleyes:
That is quite a good idea, and would be quite practical, but it does seem to go against the whole spirit of this game, because it makes us look at who we want to kill rather than who we want to save, which is the point of this game.I just don't see the point of this objection. It looks like you'd wish us not to talk of whom we actually suspect so as to let the wolves skip freely in the shadows? It's the point of the game-mechanics that we vote for confidence, but our goal nevertheless is getting the wolves lynched. Or do you have a different goal?

Also, it might make some things clearer, but it will also make the mayhem near DL even more chaotic than it would be in this game.How would that be?

I also think that if we focus on those two sides, then we'll totally forget about the people in the middle, who, if any are wolves, will have a chance to sneak by with one or two votes. If we just focus on those we want to save, it means that those we're not saving need to work harder. If we do decide who we want to lynch it will make the middle people slightly safer.Do you focus on everyone with the same effort everyDay in a normal ww-game? So no one manages to sneak from your view, no "middle-people" ever have it safer in normal games? And does that mean you have "totally forgotten" them in a normal game?

I smell more rhetorics than substance here Eönwë. And that makes me suspicious.

It also occurs to me, on another note, that it will be much easier for the wolves to get someone lynched during the day without attracting attention, and much, much harder to assign blame for a player's lynch to any one or two other players. All the wolves have to do is ignore the intended victim. So - time to reassess how we analyze votes.That's an important point as well. The reading of the votes is a case to be pondered toMorrow, but the fact that the wolves can actually get people lynched in much easier way this time around as they don't have to actually push for the lynching of anyone. They can just ignore people they are okay being lynched.

That's scary. And that's why we need suspicions, even quasi-votes for lynching.

[Eönwë]

But should one whom is banterloud be saved above one whom may be quiet, but no banter? How do you figure in the possible lupine genes into that?

But that's the whole point of this game. It forces people to be louder, whether actually being "useful", or just bantering.

Also, I think my last post had a bit of a "Don't suspect" attitude. By all means, suspect away, just don't overdo it by making a "who-I-want-to-lynch" system.


edit: x-ed with many

[satansaloser2005]

You're quite right, sorry. Damn consumer mentality getting the better of me...

Heh. Heart you too dear, heart you too.



This is boring. I wonder if I should just give someone five points and let you discuss why I did it. Hmmmm....


(Not that I'd actually do it, as I'm leaving soon anyway, but it'd certainly amuse me.)

[Nogrod]

It's such a rollercoaster-drive with you Eönwë...

Of course, that is not to say we should not talk about our suspicions. Of course that's not the case- suspicions are the most important thing we have. But by focusing on the positive (the people we find innocent), it will force people to talk more and about who they trust (which doesn't happen often, or even ever, in a normal game) and so by a certain point we will have a lot to go on, maybe even more evidence than in a normal game (on the other hand, the spreading out of votes makes it harder to see who they like).This I think I might agree on. I'm not sure focusing solely on the positive side is a good idea, but the "evidence" thus begotten will be different and interesting to read on D2.

I just don't see how can't one perform the two things at the same time: say one trusts X because of this and that, and say that one suspects heavily Y because of this and that?

My problem in the beginning of this conversation was that no one seemed to suspect anyone - and thence getting a wolf would be the most random thing, something we'd wish to avoid.

[the phantom]

Come on, people, show a bit of flare! I can understand discussing mechanics and such, but let's see some fire. Don't just suggest things, or put forth the idea that it may be intelligent to do certain things, but rather put forth a bold plan and state, "We are going to do this!" and state in no uncertain terms that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong.

You may protest on the grounds that displaying such an attitude will trigger a backlash, but that's not a bad thing. That will give you a legit reason to lynch people on the grounds that they are irrational and wrong for arguing. And it's even better if no one adopts your good idea, for then you can sit back and shout "I told you so!" when things go wrong.

Being a star isn't about winning every little point- it's about character and standing out, and sometimes it's about everyone hating you. If you are universally loathed you are in much higher standing than someone who is generally liked during the rare moments he is actually thought of by someone. For the most part, people love individuals who push their emotional buttons, one way or another. In general it is only slightly less fun to hate a team/person/thing than it is to love.

Trust me- if you tick everyone off early, it will help you in the long run (assuming you know the proper time to turn their attitudes in the later stages).

[Nogrod]

Okay. I had a cigarette and managed to formulate my point hopefully in a better way.

A ww-game is a game where we need to lynch the baddies.

To lynch a baddie we need to have an idea who might be a baddie.

In this game the voting-mechanics work in the way that we vote for those we trust. But that doesn't mean that we are not allowed to think who is furry. Or that trying to figure out who is furry would be against the spirit of the game!

Trying to figure out who is furry is still the aim of the game - and the only way we can win.

With the given game-mechanics (votes of confidence rather than votes for lynching) it just means we need to be even more alert both ways as our votes are not lynch votes, but indirectly. And everyone voting, especially those voting in the last hour, should be really on top of things.

One way of achieving that would be that we would not only make the confident-votes but would also make it clear whom we do suspect.

I can't see anyone but a wolf disagreeing with that point.

Talking only of whom we trust would play to the hands of the wolves - and make this game a boring one.

EDIT: X'd with the phantom... and agreeing...

[Eönwë]

I just don't see the point of this objection. It looks like you'd wish us not to talk of whom we actually suspect so as to let the wolves skip freely in the shadows? It's the point of the game-mechanics that we vote for confidence, but our goal nevertheless is getting the wolves lynched. Or do you have a different goal?
I didn't say don't talk about suspects. Just think about the other side too. That is the point of this game- we don't want it to end up just like any other. Of course, without suspicions you also can't have people that you trust more than those you find suspicious, but "quasi-votes for lynching" (as you call them) on Day 1?

How would that be?
It's hard enough trying to work out who's ahead on the vote count normally, but in this system it will be many times harder. If quasi-lynch-votes are cast in the last hour it would be quite crazy.

Do you focus on everyone with the same effort everyDay in a normal ww-game? So no one manages to sneak from your view, no "middle-people" ever have it safer in normal games? And does that mean you have "totally forgotten" them in a normal game?
No, but that's what's special about this game. It makes us put people into the "trust" and "don't trust" categories. We have to focus on what everyone says, and everyone has to speak, because if they don't they are likely to die. If we then have a "want-to-lynch", then it leaves us with a "don't-trust-but-don't-want-to-lynch" category, which is probably the safest place for the wolves to hide. If we don't have one, it gives them less self-confidence if they are on it, and will probably feel like they have to prove themselves.

And that's why we need suspicions, even quasi-votes for lynching.
Of course we need suspicions. But on Day 1, where there is little chance of making an informed decision anyway, I think we should at least give the current system a try before we start making amendments. Firstly, what sort of arguments can we come up with to lynch someone on Day 1 anyway? Secondly, tomorrow we will be able to see the problems that occurred to today and then improve upon them- we've never even tried this.

Also, I think this game makes an easier Day 1 than normal. Usually, you have to try to come up with some (usually very unsubstantiated) argument about why you want to lynch someone, while here you only have to decide about the people you trust more or "feel good about".

edit: x-ed since last post.

[Nerwen]

Back and reading.

[Nogrod]

I think you Eönwë and Pitch are making a mountain out of a molehill here. I didn't say we change the rules of the game. What I said was that we should not only concentrate on finding people we trust (which the wolves would love) but also trying to find out the wolves.

I can't see what's the problem.

Okay. I'll go back now anyway to try and say something about people before I go to sleep (the DL - 6AM - is horrendous to me once again and I need to vote early). I hope you guys follow the example of making some suspicions out. Being just loud or talking a lot is not the same thing as actually putting oneself into the fray. As said, wolves might wish to be supportive and generally helpful but would hate to raise any retaliations or opposition in general.

[Mirandir]

Trust me- if you tick everyone off early, it will help you in the long run (assuming you know the proper time to turn their attitudes in the later stages).

Says the one who went insane Night 0. :rolleyes:

Electing a wolf as Simon won't be good but I also don't think it would be tragic... at least not at this stage of the game. We need to use our votes to pick someone who would be reasonable as Simon but we also need to make sure we use our votes to lynch someone. That is how we will get rid of wolves. That is how we will win.

This is a sound point, at least for the first couple Days. After that the ratio of wolves to innocents in the village would make it disastrous and we'd just be handing them the win.

Those last two sentences worry me though. Something just feels off about them. Dunno if it's anything to actually worry about it not, so will leave it alone for now and see if anything more comes of it.

Oh... I mean... uh... if I have to treat of this like a celebrity: "I deny the whole thing, but I'm checking into rehab, anyway. Buy my movies and albums."

Heh. :D

So maybe we should actually vote for the crazy and confusing people?

Deal. See ya, Nog. :p

[Inziladun]

So the debate at this point is whether to indicate who we would be voting to lynch in a normal game, as a marker to those who might be reading up on things just before DL?
I can't see any real reason not to do it, because it could yield something valuable when analyzing the lynch the following Day. It's not only the way people vote that's noteworthy, but what they say about the person under the gun.
Now, trouble finding people who look off on Day 1 is usually a failing of mine; there's just very little to go on.
Here, mostly what we have has to do with the Night 1 false start, which to me stills looks fairly inconclusive about those who posted then. Lottie's quickness to condemn them does make her look somewhat shifty, at least compared to everyone else.
Aside from that, there's the aforementioned debate over airing our suspicions.
As I said earlier, I also didn't like Nienna's 51 where she said this:

That is how we will get rid of wolves. That is how we will win.

That's really more of a feeling, though, as I don't know she's said anything else that makes me suspect her.

If I had to vote for the trusted ones right now, I think Brinn would be there, followed by Nog, and maybe Nerwen. I'm not as clear on who the fourth might be. But those three seem to have made generally good points, with nothing indicating furriness to me.

[Eönwë]

I think you Eönwë and Pitch are making a mountain out of a molehill here. I didn't say we change the rules of the game. What I said was that we should not only concentrate on finding people we trust (which the wolves would love) but also trying to find out the wolves.

I was just telling you to calm down.

We haven't even seen what a day is like with this new concept is like and you're already suggesting we make an alterations before we even try it out. Let's see how people cope with the voting toDay before we start adding stuff. Don't try to turn this back into a normal game already.

[Gwathagor]

I didn't say don't talk about suspects. Just think about the other side too. That is the point of this game- we don't want it to end up just like any other.


I would hope that you're more concerned with winning than with making sure this game doesn't "end up just like any other."

[Gwathagor]

That's basically a distraction - or could turn into one, I should say.

(Whoa! I'm not in invisible mode. Shoot.)

[Eönwë]

I would hope that you're more concerned with winning than with making sure this game doesn't "end up just like any other."

Yeah, but we can at least explore the opportunities of this game before turning it into one "like any other". We have a whole Day with basically nothing to go on today, and it might be useful later on in the game to understand more about "trust-voting" instead of almost ignoring it altogether and basing your suspicions on the conventional methods. This game gives us another wolf-catching tool, let's at least see if we can use it before reverting straight back to the Old Ways.

[Nienna]

Children, children... calm down... its fine... just a game.

[Nienna]

So these are the post counts. It looks like everyone, except Fea, has made some sort of contribution.

Brinn - 1
Dun - 5
Fea - 1 - first post... not saying anything
Form - 2
Glirdan - 3
Gwath - 3
Izzy - 3
Lottie - 7
Mira - 4
Nerwen - 7
Nienna - 6
Nog - 11
Pitch - 5
Rune - 2
Steve - 12
Wilwa - 2

[Isabellkya]

I'm not entirely sure as to why people are thinking this is way different than "normal". Quite often, when people vote - it comes down to a "whomever is left".

People will makes lists of their thoughts on every player, putting into categories of "innocentish, won't lynch, slightly suspicious.." etc. Then voting for a person whom either they find suspicious, or whomever is "left over" and they've "no idea about".

Here, we are just placing our votes with/on/for people whom we want to keep around. Not entirely different than making lists. By voting for whom you want to keep around, it already shows whom you may think is suspicious indirectly.

X'd with Nienna x2.

[Glirdan]

Hey all, I'm here but pretty much just to vote as I have some things I have to do and won't be around for the DL.

However, I will be addressing somethings


Oh and Glirdan, did they really lynch you on Day 1 last game? I remember there were a few who joked about lynching you Day 1, but I didn't think they'd actually do it. Meanies.

Yes, yes they did...the jerks. :rolleyes:


I'd imagine spreading out our votes would be the smarter thing to do. If several players make all four votes at once at the end of the Day, that could lead to disaster.

And yet sometimes it is unavoidable...like in my case currently as I will probably be making my votes within the next hour.

And speaking of votes, I will make one right now for:

++Nogrod

He has been quite helpful from everything that I've read thus far. Clear, concise, logical thoughts.

I really wish I had more time to vote and read ( :( ), but I will be leaving quite soon and actually have company at the moment. I will be back on (well I hope to anyways) before I have to leave to vote at least once more.

[Nienna]

I'm not entirely sure as to why people are thinking this is way different than "normal". Quite often, when people vote - it comes down to a "whomever is left".

People will makes lists of their thoughts on every player, putting into categories of "innocentish, won't lynch, slightly suspicious.." etc. Then voting for a person whom either they find suspicious, or whomever is "left over" and they've "no idea about".

Here, we are just placing our votes with/on/for people whom we want to keep around. Not entirely different than making lists. By voting for whom you want to keep around, it already shows whom you may think is suspicious indirectly.

X'd with Nienna x2.

Not entirely... I think that with 16 people and only 4 votes then one doesn't really find 12 people suspicious... or wolfish. They are just the people left over who you don't have confidence in or who you don't want to die.

Edit: Crossed with Glirdan

[Eönwë]

And speaking of votes, I will make one right now for:

++Nogrod

Needs to be highlighted, Glirdy.

[Pitchwife]

Time for a list.

Tend to trust / would like to trust (in alphabetical order):
Eönwë, Gwath, Nienna, Nog. All of them have been posting and making good points.

To a slightly lesser degree, the same goes for:
Izzy, Mira, Nerwen, wilwa; maybe Brinn, if there were just a little more from her.

Not sure whether to trust, but find valuable:
Lottie, Zil. Because they're de facto the only ones who have actively suspected anybody yet (unlike Nog, who's only talking about it).

No idea about:
Fea, Form, Glirdan, Rune.

Suspect:
???

My problem is that because of the special game mechanics, I'm wary of the very kind of people I'd usually trust, while on the other hand I haven't seen anything outstanding yet that calls for suspicion. So I'll probably vote for someone I tend to trust as Simon, but spread some votes among the rest as well.

(x-ed from #80)

[Gwathagor]

Yeah, but we can at least explore the opportunities of this game before turning it into one "like any other". We have a whole Day with basically nothing to go on today, and it might be useful later on in the game to understand more about "trust-voting" instead of almost ignoring it altogether and basing your suspicions on the conventional methods. This game gives us another wolf-catching tool, let's at least see if we can use it before reverting straight back to the Old Ways.

I always was one for the Old Ways. ;)

[Isabellkya]

Two and three quarter hours until deadline, if I'm doing the conversion right?

[Eönwë]

So I'll probably vote for someone I tend to trust as Simon, but spread some votes among the rest as well.

Actually, it might be quite interesting to make someone you're unsure about Simon this early in the game, as it puts them under a lot of pressure. On the other hand, this probably wouldn't work because everyone gets they're own choices, so unless we decide as a group who we want as Simon, this won't work. And deciding who it is beforehand will just give the wolves another place to hide (was that a third hand or back to the first?).

[Nogrod]

Possible votes of confidence

Brinn – spoke sense early on the Day but hasn’t appeared after that. Could be perfect wolvery or just RL busyness… I’d hate to see her gone because of that especially as I have no possibility to see what she might do during the last hours.

Dun – Seems to be sensical and bold enough to take sides on some issues. Good for me.

Gwath – speaks sense indeed. He would be a terribly effective wolf or then an ordo. I’m leaning on the latter for D1.

Nerwen – mainly to the point and anyway too valuable to lose on D1…

Nienna – Seems collected and to the point. I like her posting, it feels well-intended and is reasoned.

I can't vote all five, but my four votes will most probably go for four of them.

As I said, we better use all our votes - hey Glirdan, use them all! The more votes we have cast the lesser the risk that we do not manage to lynch anyone.



The less trusted ones... but not actually suspicious enough I'd like to see them lynched.

Fea – one post total, saying “Marco?” C'mon Fea!

Form – the first poster, leaning towards innocent thus far (although looking at the scope of the explanation it looks a bit overdone).

Glirdan – kind of perfect wolf-strategy: being there but not much said to stir controversy. Looking at his “comeback” ending up in early deaths I’d hate to see him gone on D1 though.

Lottie – she’s a problem for me. The intervention back there on the wrong start is not thoroughly innocent-looking as it would be such a nice idea for a wolf to do but then again I have nothing else on her so it might be just pure “what if”?

Rune – more or less the same as with Glirdan… I’d hate to see him gone with that little to be said on him – even if that would be the best wolf tactics in this game.

Wilwa – she’s had not much time so far I can see, but soo reasonable and careful! If I hadn’t promised I’ll not suspect her firsthand I’d suspect her, but now I think I’ll just have to leave it at that.



The ones I do suspect more or less...

Izzy – I don’t like her suggestion that we should skip lynching someone today. Also even if I’m not willing to put “all those and only those” people into the firing-line who posted prematurely, her defence of them as a lot makes me wonder, like she’s downplaying the chance there was a wolf in there? Her latest looks sensible again… gah.

Mira – the odd one out for me. Her actions might win her a place in my suspicion list (the early talking, mainly bantering, echoing other’s points… and just staying at the backstage). But really nothing to say more...

Pitch – I don’t see why he goes with Eönwë to make issues with totally sensible arguments… suspicious.

Steve – At times he makes very educated suggestions and at times he seems to try and work against our good… A tough one to call.



~~*~~

The 'Downs seem to be down again and it's coming 3AM...

If Sally agrees to post this then you'll have my votes and this post.


So my votes will be.

++ Gwath

++ Inziladun

++ Nerwen

++ Nienna


And don't lynch Brinn either!


If I'd be able to vote for a lynch I would say

lynch Pitchwife

Eönwë has made also good points but Pitch has merely tried to oppose tactics that are good to us.

Of the other two I do suspect somewhat Mira is the more "easy-going" - which might be good or bad - and Izzy is the more visible - in good and bad. Really hard to say about them.

And I do not claim I have the four wolves listed here. But I'd say there must be one, and there might be more.


EDIT: The 'Downs work again!!! Hurray!

[Isabellkya]

I'm going to make my votes in my next post most likely.
Spent forty-five minutes playing the F5 refresh game with the Downs. Don't want to risk that closer to deadline..

[Inziladun]

Since the forum has been acting up for me as well, I'll at least get these done.

++Nog

++Nerwen

++Brinn

With my luck, they're all three wolves, but I just don't see anything to fault them for, and they've been around enough for me to get a bit of a feel for them.

Still not sure of the other one...

[Nogrod]

I was just coming to close my computer when I saw this...
they've been around enough for me to get a bit of a feel for them.How can you say Brinn has been around enough? She made one post - which was fine and dandy - but why to say you "got a feel of it"?

I can see one says we shouldn't lose her because she only managed to post once or something as she can be a force the wolves need to reckon with (like I did), but to claim to have a feel from that one post- while several people have posted more and more passionately, and more openly...

Maybe I should rethink my suspicions from scratch?

Blah. 3.30AM. And three of my real votes I can still stand along with.

So hoping to see you toMorrow.

[Loslote]

Here. Reading.

[the phantom]

Why tell them to calm down, Nienna? How incredibly boring. The post count isn't that high this game. The last thing you want to encourage is the double-whammy of low posting and boring posting.

And Glirdan, come on. You don't even know how to vote properly? The most basic thing that there is in this little game, and you don't do it? It's like a person who goes to Hollywood to break into showbiz and after years of hard work gets a gig as a background extra- and manages to get fired from that.

And I could paint Gwath with that same brush for his failure to be invisible. Seriously- how does that happen? Did someone shoot you guys with a Noob-ray?

And I still can't believe no one has suggested something interesting, such as- "On Day 2, why don't we all agree to dump three of our four votes immediately on a non-player (e.g. Shasta) and then we'll all have only one single vote with which to save someone from then on. It will make votes more meaningful and make things more tense and encourage bargaining and make lists and such much shorter and easier to keep track of etc etc..."

Come on. Show me something! To this point you lot have been borderline pathetic.

[Nerwen]

Did the site die on anyone else? Because it did for me, and not only that, it ate up a rather long post of mine. I'll do it again (more sketchily, alas). Note: these points may have been raised in the meantime– I haven't had a chance to read the thread yet.

So how about we come up with a marking of our own to indicate whom everyone of us would like to lynch? I think it would be a good idea if everyone also told the others whom they would like to see lynched already on this Day - and hopefully also why. In that way we could lessen the erratic nature of the last hour choices a little bit more?

But is there any real difference between these dummy-votes and just making a suspicion-list in the normal way? It just seems like an over-complicated variation on something we do anyway. Will it hinder the ability of wolves to keep their paws clean when ordos gets lynched?

So, what do we do about the quiet people toDay? If we ignore them they may get lynched by default– and likely won't be wolves, because the wolves will be trying to look especially helpful.

If we agree to vote for some of them, the wolves may decide to revert to submarining tactics, so we lose that advantage. Thoughts?

EDIT:X'd since... I think Gwath at #83, but I can't quite remember.
EDIT2: word left out.

[wilwarin538]

So how about we come up with a marking of our own to indicate whom everyone of us would like to lynch? I think it would be a good idea if everyone also told the others whom they would like to see lynched already on this Day - and hopefully also why. In that way we could lessen the erratic nature of the last hour choices a little bit more?

Especially if we have people who can only turn out at the last moments of the Day they would have it easier just scrolling the thread and see why some people would like to see some others lynched (if people write long posts and their points are just in the middle of them unmarked a fast skimmer might just miss them).


I think this is a perfectly logical idea. If all we focus on is people we trust then the wolves chould very easily continually vote to protect each other without it being noticeable that they're always protecting each other, at least at first since we all get so many votes. So it may take a bit before we can find any sort of pattern since it's likely that a lot of people will vote similarly anyway. But if we add suspicions in there as well then that's just another piece of data that we can look at for each person. More info the better. Hope that made sense...


At this moment I feel pretty good about Nog and Izzy. Inzil doesn't look to bad either. Eonwe though isn't sitting too well with me for now, just after my quick read through. Everyone else I'm still up in the air with.

I'm gonna skim through again, maybe have some other stuff to say, and then I gotta vote and go to sleep...

x'ed with a few

[Eönwë]

And I still can't believe no one has suggested something interesting, such as- "On Day 2, why don't we all agree to dump three of our four votes immediately on a non-player (e.g. Shasta) and then we'll all have only one single vote with which to save someone from then on. It will make votes more meaningful and make things more tense and encourage bargaining and make lists and such much shorter and easier to keep track of etc etc..."

Erm...

Everyone will receive four votes to be used each Day. Not four bonus votes, four votes. You may not use more than one vote on a person and you may not vote for yourself.


Now let me get back to the game without your distractions!:p

[the phantom]

Extra note: Would you stop with the "here and reading" announcements? I've seen several of those (Wilwa, Nerwen, and Loslote, maybe more), and you don't seem to realize that not everyone is allowed to say that (unless you are within an hour of the deadline).

Why is it necessary to tell everyone you're reading the thread? Isn't everyone? The only way it matters is if it is likely that several other members have been eagerly awaiting your contributions and you wish to inform them that their thirst will soon be quenched. In other words, you have to first prove yourself to be sufficiently noteworthy, awesome, or important in order to post "here and reading".

There are but a few who qualify to use this phrase at any time-
1) revealed gifteds
2) Seer-dreamed proven innocents
3) Mod(s)
4) SPM
5) Phantom

Are you on this list?

Then don't do it.

If at any point during this contest I feel someone has qualified to be added to the list, I will announce it.

[wilwarin538]

So, what do we do about the quiet people toDay? If we ignore them they may get lynched by default– and likely won't be wolves, because the wolves will be trying to look especially helpful.



Right after I posted I thought of this same thing and was about to say it when you did. I think at least 2 of my votes will go to people who haven't posted that much, because I'd rather someone not get lynched simply because they didn't get the chance to post.

[the phantom]

Oh good gravy, Steve- you honestly think that the quote from Sally disqualifies the plan? All it says is that you must spread your votes, hence you do not put all three votes on Shasta (he was just one example), but rather one on Shasta, one on Phantom, etc...

And if you don't want to vote for non-players, just agree on a plan to dump your first three votes on each other and forge a massive tie.

Plus didn't I already tell someone earlier not to be a ruler-kisser? It's really lame.

[Inziladun]

I was just coming to close my computer when I saw this...
How can you say Brinn has been around enough? She made one post - which was fine and dandy - but why to say you "got a feel of it"?

The one post seemed to have substance, she looked all right, and I'd rather not see her gone just yet. Simple as that.

Did the site die on anyone else? Because it did for me, and not only that, it ate up a rather long post of mine. I'll do it again (more sketchily, alas). Note: these points may have been raised in the meantime– I haven't had a chance to read the thread yet.

The forum has been down off and on today, but when I tried to access the main Barrow Downs site it worked.

So, what do we do about the quiet people toDay? If we ignore them they may get lynched by default– and likely won't be wolves, because the wolves will be trying to look especially helpful.

At least for the first Day, I guess we're confined to giving a second chance to those we feel deserve it, and hope they'll be around more toMorrow. As for me, I may be leaning toward giving my final vote to Glirdan, simply because it would be a shame for him to die on Day 1 two games in a row, and I really haven't had a chance to see what he's made of.

x/d with 2 phantoms, 2 Wilwas, and a Steve

[satansaloser2005]

Have an extra three hours. Sorry, I wasn't by a computer so I didn't know the site was down.


Repeat. A temporary DL is in effect for toDay only. The DL is now 6 a.m. GMT (in about four hours.)

[Formendacil]

Okay... sooo... I'm going to make myself a bit more of a target here, because I'm posting, voting, and running... but it seems that when Sally-Mod asked me to play, I mistranslated timezones (apparently 9:00 doesn't translate to 10:00 in my timezone, but to 8:00--I guess I don't live in Boston yet :p ), and so I can't stick around as late as I thought... and it's a Friday night, and even Internet denizens occasionally have lives.

++ Mirandir
++ Nerwen
++ Eönwë
++ Loslote

Can you guess what they have in common?

I figure I owe it to them for not making me look like a complete idiot--and they are all clearly excited enough to be playing that they were jumping the gun.

x-ed with the Moddess. Okay, maybe I could have got on closer to the deadline. Good timing, Sally. :p

[wilwarin538]

Ok, gonna do this now thens:

++Glirdan

Cause I don't want the poor kid getting lynched Day 1 again.

++Fea

Cause all she's said was 1 word and I don't want a submarine type to get lynched just for lack of posts.

++Nog

Cause I feel good about him.


Hmmm, gonna rethink a bit of stuff and come back for the 4th in a bit. Might go with another big poster, or someone who hasn't been around much, still not sure.

Keep in mind that no one gets lynched if there's a four way tie. So that's definitely something we want to avoid. Try to spread your votes out a bit people.

[satansaloser2005]

Oh good gravy, Steve- you honestly think that the quote from Sally disqualifies the plan? All it says is that you must spread your votes, hence you do not put all three votes on Shasta (he was just one example), but rather one on Shasta, one on Phantom, etc...

And if you don't want to vote for non-players, just agree on a plan to dump your first three votes on each other and forge a massive tie.

Plus didn't I already tell someone earlier not to be a ruler-kisser? It's really lame.

Don't give them ideas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:p

[Loslote]

What's the point of first applauding the ingenuity of this game, then suggesting to introduce a classical lynch vote through the back door? Who gets no vote is lynched, period. No need for any extra votes or markings (unless you want to confuse poor alona, who's suffered quite enough recently by having her heart eaten and all that).

Going with the point Eönwë made about modified wolvish behaviour in #48, I must say most of you are acting much too reasonable and eager to help for my peace of mind right now (not that I'm a shiny exception myself, I suppose). Obviously you can't all be wolves, but at the moment I'm tempted to vote for one or two of the quieter and weirder people, just in case.

Nonsense. When you're a wolf, you become Mr. Agreeable. I haven't seen that yet. Unlike Pitchwolf, you seem to be somewhat confrontational...though that may just be this game.

I'm probably going to vote Nog, Nienna, and Zil. They all look pretty innocent to me. Not sure about the fourth yet...probably a quiet person I don't think is a wolf but probably won't get many votes so may get lynched.

EDIT: xed since Zil.

[Brinniel]

Yeah, working to sniff out the wolves is one way to catch them, but it doesn't always work. How many times has an innocent been wrongly lynched because they look 'suspicious'? The different style of this game is trying to make us look at things with a different perspective, and perhaps we should take advantage of that. If we try to figure out who's innocent rather than evil, then we can use the process of elimination to find the wolves. Of course I know that some wolves could very well fool us and appear innocent...but nothing's perfect. I know at least for me, sometimes I feel like I'm trying so hard to find the suspicious people that I end up voting for players for ridiculous reasons. It's a bit of an experiment but...perhaps if we actually take more time looking at who we don't want to lynch we'll be more successful. If anything, these under-the-radar wolves we might have could be in more danger than usual. Quiet wolves manage to win games by being left unnoticed...but in this game where you need votes in order to survive, you can't just hide in the background the entire game.

If some of you want to stick to the classic strategy and make an unofficial vote of who you want to lynch, then that's fine. Just don't expect everyone else to play the same way.

So, what do we do about the quiet people toDay? If we ignore them they may get lynched by default– and likely won't be wolves, because the wolves will be trying to look especially helpful.
During these first Days I think we should keep the quiet ones alive, because we can't know whether or not it's due to RL. But if some players continue to lurk in the background throughout the game without reason, then they probably aren't worth saving.

Brinn – spoke sense early on the Day but hasn’t appeared after that. Could be perfect wolvery or just RL busyness… I’d hate to see her gone because of that especially as I have no possibility to see what she might do during the last hours.
Yeah, that'd be RL. I was around for several hours, but of course hardly anyone posted until I left. :rolleyes: Don't expect to see a whole lot of me during the game because this is a busy semester and my participation will be limited.

I'll make my first vote now. I'd like to keep Glirdan around. Perhaps it's because I feel sorry for him last game (first game in two and half years and you lynch him on Day 1? yeesh), but it's also been a long time since I played WW online with him and I'd like to have a chance to get familiar with his playing style before seeing him lynched again:

++Glirdan

EDIT: X-ed since Sally

[wilwarin538]

So a very quick scan through and so I'm gonna go with:

++Lottie

Everyone who still hasn't voted I just want to reiterate what I just said. 4 way tie and we don't get a lynch. The votes so far do seem fairly spread out, which is good, but hopefully a vote count shows up soon and people can keep the tie thing in mind. Yes, I'm paranoid about a no lynch, I'm also paranoid that one of those people with 1 or 2 votes are going to get lynched just because they went unnoticed, and that's not really a concrete basis for lynching.

Anyway, I spent all morning with a bunch of hyper 4 year olds so I'm kind of exhausted, gonna go sleep now. Good luck!

x'ed with Lottie and Brinn

[satansaloser2005]

Check the admin thread.

[Nerwen]

I'm not entirely sure as to why people are thinking this is way different than "normal". Quite often, when people vote - it comes down to a "whomever is left".

People will makes lists of their thoughts on every player, putting into categories of "innocentish, won't lynch, slightly suspicious.." etc. Then voting for a person whom either they find suspicious, or whomever is "left over" and they've "no idea about".

You have a point there– at least if you're talking about Day Ones only. After that we generally have more to go on.

Here, we are just placing our votes with/on/for people whom we want to keep around. Not entirely different than making lists. By voting for whom you want to keep around, it already shows whom you may think is suspicious indirectly.

But much too indirectly– at least in this stage of the game, when there are so many players. The big problem we have is that the lynch-result may not give us much information– the wolves can help get an ordo lynched simply by doing nothing, and then claim they never suspected the victim at all.

Extra note: Would you stop with the "here and reading" announcements? I've seen several of those (Wilwa, Nerwen, and Loslote, maybe more), and you don't seem to realize that not everyone is allowed to say that (unless you are within an hour of the deadline).

*has sudden urge to spam the thread with 500 "here and reading" posts*

EDIT:X'd with a host.

[Eönwë]

Trust
No-one yet... not good, especially in this game.

Seem Innocent
Brinn- Only one post, but concisely made quite a few good points.
Pitch- Seems to me like he's innocent who just overdid it a bit on the non-"Nog-quasi-voting" front.
Wilwa- Has posted very little, but she's giving off good vibes.
Izzy- Makes some nice, simple points without overdoing it. Don't know if I really trust her though...

Not evil
Nerwen- Looks better with every post, but I think her comment about wolves breaking the rules on purpose wasn't a very good start. Which makes her seem innocent

Not sure
Fea- For obvious reasons.
Rune- Hasn't really said much.
Shasta- Erm.... no. Got nothing.
Form- hasn't said anything except commenting on Days and miscalculating them.
Glirdan- Hasn't really said anything important except for backing Nog (incorrectly).
Mira- hasn't really said anything if substance yet.

Need to look at
Nog- Makes some good points, but seems a bit too defensive to me.
Lottie- Very very confusing. Sometimes looks good, sometimes evil.

Suspicious of
Inzil- Seems to have become one of the dreaded "middle people". He seems to be playing by the book- no strong accusations, no controversy, just doing what he needs to, but no more. However, he may just be a normal ordo, but he just seems too normal (his post count is in the middle too). He also voted for three people without giving any reasons, and that can't be good. Then again, I always find him suspicious.

Gwathagor- Posted a few one-lines. Seem pretty innocent, but he's been here for quite a while without actually saying anything of substance.

Nienna- The whole "That is how we will win" speech. She also seems to be agreeing lot rather than making any new points. And maybe she thinks a post count will make it all better?

Evil
No-one yet... yeah, I know. :rolleyes:

edit: x-ed since last post.

[Loslote]

Okay...

++Nienna

++Zil

May vote Nog. May vote Fea. May vote Pitchie. May vote Izzy. May vote Glirdy. May vote Wilwa.

Will not vote Eonwe. Will not vote Brinn.

Will probably not (but might be persuaded to) vote Formy, Nerwen, Mira, or Gwath.

EDIT: xed with Miss Mod.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Just noticed something - in the narration, last Night was referred to as Night 0, which implies that toDay is Day 0, not Day 1. Any ideas what that means?

Bet it means nothing. Or, rather, that it means that on Night 0, nothing happens but ModDeath, after which Day 1 starts (things happen) followed by Night 1 (things happen).

It means the moddess is silly and likes to start at 0 rather than 1, that's all. ToDay is Day 1.

Sawwee!!! How'm I supposed to respond to things systematically as I read if you responded before I got home but after I tried to respond?

Ok, so the Night posters totally mixed me up yesterday when I saw people posting, cause I had it written in my day planner that yesterday was a Night phase (yes, I keep track of WW stuff in my dayplanner :smokin:).

I freaking love you for keeping WW in your dayplanner. Just sayin'. Not least because I had to schedule it in myself, what with my crazy life. (Brief explanation of: I meant to be around at midDay but got stuck out of town running errands and by the time I got home I had to sprint out the door to get to work on time and only just got onto the 'Downs).

It looks like it was a general mistaken error, and I agree with those whom have said - I doubt someone would knowingly post during the Night, just to make themselves look better.

I concur. While it's plausible that some enterprising individual might try to meta-manipulate like that, the odds of it having any functional and predictable benefit aren't really good enough to warrant bothering. I mean... what are the odds that posting at night is going to convince people you're not evil? It's just trash logic and would be a kinda useless waste of time and energy.

There goes my usual strategy of saying as little as possible. It will be interesting to see how this affects folks' playing styles, since it behooves us all, to some extent, to TRY to attract attention.

Psh... just ask the Bostonmooters: I attract attention even when sick and sleeping. Posting? As if posting was necessary for one such as me! ;) No, but seriously, there's something interesting about the psychology behind trying to avoid being the least favorite and actively striving to be the most loved. Frankly, every time I play werewolf I wish I was studying it as social psych. Because the question comes down to how much you think somebody is willing to alter their normal state in order to accrue popularity. Ie: how much are any of the players here willing to change themselves in order to please others?

Me? Even if I had the time and energy to pretend like I care about being popular, I wouldn't. Because it would almost certainly be detrimental to me to try to attract attention, since urban legend suggests that I'm only vocal when I'm evil. Ergo, I'm playing how I feel like playing based on my schedule and my whim (and Sally's whim), and the rest of you will just have to deal.

I just don't see the point of this objection. It looks like you'd wish us not to talk of whom we actually suspect so as to let the wolves skip freely in the shadows? It's the point of the game-mechanics that we vote for confidence, but our goal nevertheless is getting the wolves lynched. Or do you have a different goal?

I view it as drawing negative space. With voting for who you want to kill, you're drawing the subject of the picture. You're making it obvious.

But when you vote for who you want to keep alive, you're filling in your background. The silhouette you reveal is the identity of the person who is least trusted.

In short, I find this argument silly, since regardless of whether you vote for favorite or least favorite, you're still eventually going to have an Undesirable die at the hands of the village.

It's just more like death by negligence instead of death by pitchfork. Just think of us leaving a poor little villager out in the cold while the rest of us party, and coming out in the morning to find them frozen in the snow.

And I still can't believe no one has suggested something interesting, such as- "On Day 2, why don't we all agree to dump three of our four votes immediately on a non-player (e.g. Shasta) and then we'll all have only one single vote with which to save someone from then on. It will make votes more meaningful and make things more tense and encourage bargaining and make lists and such much shorter and easier to keep track of etc etc..."

Because I haven't been home until now! I vote for this idea. Then again, last time I tried to convince a group to control votes and kill a known wolf with them, they managed to kill me instead. So frankly, my faith in group think is negligible. No offense to you all as individuals, but it's a proven fact that groups of people are stupid.

What we need here is a benevolent dictator. We shouldn't be voting anybody into Simon, Simon should seize control!

Veni, vidi, vici!

[Eönwë]

Plus didn't I already tell someone earlier not to be a ruler-kisser? It's really lame.

Yeah, but here there wasn't any benefit to be had, and if there was then obviously I was being selfish and making sure no-one else could get it.

[alonariel]

Just got off work (and am apparently back from the dead!). Here goes, let me know if there are any mistakes!

Brinn - 2
Dun - 7
Fea - 2
Form - 2
Glirdan - 5
Gwath - 4
Izzy - 3
Lottie - 9
Mira - 5
Nerwen - 10
Nienna - 8
Nog - 13
Pitch - 5
Rune - 2
Steve - 13
Wilwa - 2

[satansaloser2005]

Just got off work (and am apparently back from the dead!). Here goes, let me know if there are any mistakes!

Brinn - 2
Dun - 7
Fea - 2
Form - 2
Glirdan - 5
Gwath - 4
Izzy - 3
Lottie - 9
Mira - 5
Nerwen - 10
Nienna - 8
Nog - 13
Pitch - 5
Rune - 2
Steve - 13
Wilwa - 2

Thank you so much. Lol I was afraid you wouldn't be here and I'm busy and can't count votes. *snuggles you*

[alonariel]

Thank you so much. Lol I was afraid you wouldn't be here and I'm busy and can't count votes. *snuggles you*

*huggle* I'm here, never fear! The kids didn't win today.

[Nienna]

*confuzzled*

Nog:
1. Gwath
2. ZIl
3. Nerwen
4. Nienna

Zil:
1. Nog
2. Nerwen
3. Brinn

Form:
1. Mira
2. Nerwen (3)
3. Steve
4. Lottie

Wilwa:
1. Glirdan
2. Fea
3. Nog (2)
4. Lottie (2)

Brinn:
1. Gilrdan (2)

Lottie:
1. Nienna (2)
2. Zil (2)

that is what I have.

Edit: Unless you are just doing post count

[Loslote]

Yeah, but here there wasn't any benefit to be had, and if there was then obviously I was being selfish and making sure no-one else could get it.

Why do you argue with The Phantom? You must know no one can possibly come off well. :rolleyes:

EDIT: xed with Nienna.

[satansaloser2005]

*huggle* I'm here, never fear! The kids didn't win today.

Awwww, too bad. :p Get on IM? If you've time?

[alonariel]

Edit: Unless you are just doing post count

Just doing a post count. :)

[satansaloser2005]

*confuzzled*

Nog:
1. Gwath
2. ZIl
3. Nerwen
4. Nienna

Zil:
1. Nog
2. Nerwen
3. Brinn

Form:
1. Mira
2. Nerwen (3)
3. Steve
4. Lottie

Wilwa:
1. Glirdan
2. Fea
3. Nog (2)
4. Lottie (2)

Brinn:
1. Gilrdan (2)

Lottie:
1. Nienna (2)
2. Zil (2)

that is what I have.

Edit: Unless you are just doing post count



Rock. Star.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Why do you argue with The Phantom? You must know no one can possibly come off well.

That's what you think.

Then again, I'm not the arguing type. I'm the telling type. I think he likes that. And as long as he's submissive, I don't care if he doesn't. :Merisu:

[Loslote]

I am leaning towards Wilwa, Fea, or Nog. I really do think Nog and Wilwa are innocent, and Fea might get my vote purely for her lovely logic here:

I view it as drawing negative space. With voting for who you want to kill, you're drawing the subject of the picture. You're making it obvious.

But when you vote for who you want to keep alive, you're filling in your background. The silhouette you reveal is the identity of the person who is least trusted.

In short, I find this argument silly, since regardless of whether you vote for favorite or least favorite, you're still eventually going to have an Undesirable die at the hands of the village.

It's just more like death by negligence instead of death by pitchfork. Just think of us leaving a poor little villager out in the cold while the rest of us party, and coming out in the morning to find them frozen in the snow.

Thank. You. Personally, I found that whole debate irrevelant and annoying. Of course you're going to mention who you suspect. We always do, we're not going to break the habit now. We've always said who we trust, too, even if we weren't voting for them. We didn't need a special format to say who we trusted then, and we don't need one to say who we suspect now.

[Eönwë]

Well, if nothing happens soon I'll just have to vote with what I've got and leave.

[Gwathagor]

Hum de dum.


++Eonwe
++Nogrod
++Brinn
++Form

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

So I thought thid would be a nice game without any of the usual Nogrod anthics. . .but I was wrong.

I do appoliogise for not being arround, things did not turn out the way I thought. . . I guess I won't make much of a contribution today!

I don't have any real suspects, Nogrod is more or less the same as normal. . .which always annoys me, Fea is unpredictable. . . everything is as it normally is.

[Mirandir]

That's what you think.

Then again, I'm not the arguing type. I'm the telling type. I think he likes that. And as long as he's submissive, I don't care if he doesn't. :Merisu:

*gag*

So this extra time thing is seriously throwing a monkey wrench in my life. *cue excuses* I have a friend coming in about 20 minutes and love this game though I do, sometimes RL must take precedence. So ima go ahead and do my voting now and might be back around later.

++Glirdan Also don't want him to get lynched Day 1. Poor kid never gets to play this game anymore.

++Fea She's much too amusing to kill off this early.

++Form I really don't think a wolf would slip up and post before they were supposed to. Especially one as experienced as Form.

++Lottie No real reason, just have an okay feeling about her.

[Loslote]

Thank you, Gwath. Now that there's pretty much no chance of Nog being lynched, I'm going to...

++Fea
++Wilwa

EDIT: xed with Rune and Mira

[alonariel]

Vote Count:

Brinn - 3
Dun - 7
Fea - 4
Form - 4
Glirdan - 6
Gwath - 4
Izzy - 3
Lottie - 10
Mira - 5
Nerwen - 10
Nienna - 8
Nog - 14
Pitch - 5
Rune - 2
Steve - 14
Wilwa - 3

Edit: Added Lottie and Mira's votes.,

[Loslote]

Vote Count:

Brinn - 3
Dun - 7
Fea - 4
Form - 4
Glirdan - 6
Gwath - 4
Izzy - 3
Lottie - 10
Mira - 5
Nerwen - 10
Nienna - 8
Nog - 14
Pitch - 5
Rune - 2
Steve - 14
Wilwa - 3

Edit: Added Lottie and Mira's votes.,

Vote count or post count, dear?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Alona, I'm mad confused by your lists, because not that many people have voted...

[alonariel]

Alona, I'm mad confused by your lists, because not that many people have voted...

I know, I think I borrowed from Nienna's list and crossed wires somewhere. I'm going back right now and double checking. Will post soon.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

++Fea
++Formendacil


Because I love them and they both look smashing in speedos

[Eönwë]

Vote count or post count, dear?
I think she may have mixed them both together...

[Isabellkya]

Argh. F5 refresh game is not fun. No prizes or high scoring. Just missing post content.
My stomach is rumbling, and I'm not want to reconstruct the lost content.. in a gist..

In an effort to not have a widespread tie.. and I don't know whom to help to Simoncy, so not going to put my vote(s) there..

++Wilwa
++Mira
++Nienna
++Inziladun


X'd with everything after #131. argh.

[Loslote]

I'm off to dinner, will hopefully be back before dl.

[the phantom]

*has sudden urge to spam the thread with 500 "here and reading" posts*
I would say "That's the spirit!", but I'm paid to be critical, not pat people on the back.

And Fea- you started off so well! Why get off the rails with false tales of my characteristics, or the dynamics which existed during our meeting? I remember quite clearly that you were the one who was so pleased to find your arms bound, and you called me a "control freak" to boot.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I remember quite clearly that you were the one who was so pleased to find your arms bound, and you called me a "control freak" to boot.

I see you've chained - er... I mean changed... your location...

[alonariel]

I did mix them together, Steve. Sorry guys, my fault. :rolleyes:

Here's the actual vote count:

Gwath - 1
Zil - 3
Nerwen - 3
Nienna - 3
Nog - 4
Brinn - 2
Mira - 2
Steve - 2
Lottie - 3
Glirdan - 3
Fea - 4
Form - 3
Wilwa - 2
Izzy - 0
Pitch - 0
Rune - 0

[Nienna]

Vote #1 for me:

++ Rune

I don't want to see him go this early in a game. I'd like to have at least another day with him.

[Nerwen]

Thanks, Alona. I too was deeply confused by your last list.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Alona, I have Nog at three, not four. Did I miss one?

[Eönwë]

Ok, well these two seem innocent to me right now:

++Brinn
++Wilwa

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

++Wilwa
++Rune
++Stick

[the phantom]

I see you've chained - er... I mean changed... your location...
Yes, well, my dearest Dark Monarch and I thought it best. Now that we're quite settled on the idea of having children and all, we thought it wise that I distance myself from any old flames. I must begin the transition towards being a family man, you see.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Yes, well, my dearest Dark Monarch and I thought it best. Now that we're quite settled on the idea of having children and all, we thought it wise that I distance myself from any old flames. I must begin the transition towards being a family man, you see.

So you'll begin by taking your affianced to the haunts of a homicidal maniac, wherein, I presume, you will watch a show about a mentally unstable soprano with an inability to say no to a mentally and physically abusive paramour?

Sounds like the beginnings of a long and happy future...

[Nienna]

I have Nog at 3 as well.

[satansaloser2005]

Yes, well, my dearest Dark Monarch and I thought it best. Now that we're quite settled on the idea of having children and all, we thought it wise that I distance myself from any old flames. I must begin the transition towards being a family man, you see.

Are you demeaning players? Are you heckling? No. So shut it.


And *sobs* I don't want to hear about *sob* your affairs with *sob* Wilwa.

:Merisu:

[Eönwë]

I also want to vote for:

++Nog

Because I think that his argument was the result of an innocent thought rather than a wolf's. I also don't think a wolf would be so defensive over one of their threatened theories, but then again, this is Nog. In any case, I think that it's probably better to keep him around as long as possible if he's not evil. He's probably also make a good Simon.

[alonariel]

Double-checked and Nog is at three, thanks Fea and Nienna. I swear I'll get the hang of this thing by Day 2.

Gwath - 1
Zil - 3
Nerwen - 3
Nienna - 3
Nog - 4
Brinn - 3
Mira - 3
Steve - 2
Lottie - 3
Glirdan - 3
Fea - 4
Form - 3
Wilwa - 4
Izzy - 0
Pitch - 0
Rune - 2

Edit: Now he's at 4.

[Nerwen]

Not evil
Nerwen- Looks better with every post, but I think her comment about wolves breaking the rules on purpose wasn't a very good start. Which makes her seem innocent

This is something that's puzzling me– people seem to be attributing the "wolves trying to look like dumb ordos" theory to me, but actually my post where I mention it (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622865&postcount=24) is a response to this post by Lottie (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622860&postcount=19). Just an FYI.

So.

Who I will probably not be voting for, as of the time of posting

The phantom. Clearly evil!
Shasta. See the phantom.

And apart from those hideously furry individuals–

Glirdan.

Made too much of the Night-time debacle for my liking. Lottie also did to some extent, though she's been making sense otherwise. *shrugs* It is Day One...

I also probably won't vote Zil, because of a vaguely uneasy feeling he's giving me, which may mean nothing. Again... Day One...

Who I'm currently thinking of voting–

Well Nogrod made good points about stating suspicions, which Fea countered it with other good points... so I think I might follow the current fashion by giving one or both of them a vote. Also I'm liking Steve.

Other than that, it's still a pretty wide field, and we have another 2 1/2 hours, so I believe I will keep some votes in reserve for a bit.

I think we need to look at the people who are currently in danger of being lynched (because apparently nobody wuvs 'em :( ).

Avoid, though, voting for people just out of pity– someone else will just get lynched instead. We need to think about who actually seems more or less innocent/useful/whatever.

EDIT:X'd since Steve at #151.

[Gwathagor]

Vote Count:

Brinn - 3
Dun - 7
Fea - 4
Form - 4
Glirdan - 6
Gwath - 4
Izzy - 3
Lottie - 10
Mira - 5
Nerwen - 10
Nienna - 8
Nog - 14
Pitch - 5
Rune - 2
Steve - 14
Wilwa - 3

Edit: Added Lottie and Mira's votes.,

Post count, right?

Oh, I see this has already been pointed out. Never mind. Not trying to rub it in.

[the phantom]

Fea- what does it say about your play when your primary conversation of the day is with one of the only people who doesn't have a vote?

Nerwen- you were "deeply confused" by a mistaken tally? I would understand a bit of confusion- but "deeply"? If that's all the confusion you're capable of handling, I'd say you're in the wrong place.

Oh, and on that subject, is it a comfort to you players that you aren't the only ones screwing things up? I see the co-mod can't even keep the tallies straight. Can this thing get any worse?
I swear I'll get the hang of this thing by Day 2.
That's what your mom said.

[Brinniel]

Hmm...so far I'm getting good vibes from:

++Inziladun


I'm thinking of voting Izzy or Pitchwife. Pitchwife didn't vote, did he? I wonder if he'll be back before deadline, though considering his time zone I'm thinking not.

One of my concerns is that the player who gets the least votes will turn out to be gifted. That could be bad news particularly if they aren't around near deadline to save themselves. Gifteds have been lynched on Day 1 before, so it's something to keep in mind when voting.

[Loslote]

Made too much of the Night-time debacle for my liking. Lottie also did to some extent, though she's been making sense otherwise. *shrugs* It is Day One...

*coughsomethingotherthanbantertotalkaboutonDay1cou gh*

*coughI'mbackcough*

;)

EDIT: xed with Gwath down.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Fea- what does it say about your play when your primary conversation of the day is with one of the only people who doesn't have a vote?

Veni, vidi, vici.

As the person tied for most votes, I daresay I needn't be concerned who I talk to, since it clearly doesn't seem to be an issue.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I haven't been able to read through all posts, so could somebody please tell me: Am I in major danger of being lynched?

Anyways, I don't have much constructive to offer on this day one, the only thing that has caught my mind is how easily people have made a major deal about the early posts. . . Which is really silly! Sure it is a thing that needs attention, but enough is enough!

[alonariel]

Gwath - 1
Zil - 4
Nerwen - 3
Nienna - 3
Nog - 4
Brinn - 3
Mira - 3
Steve - 2
Lottie - 3
Glirdan - 3
Fea - 4
Form - 3
Wilwa - 4
Izzy - 0
Pitch - 0
Rune - 2

[Loslote]

I haven't been able to read through all posts, so could somebody please tell me: Am I in major danger of being lynched?

Anyways, I don't have much constructive to offer on this day one, the only thing that has caught my mind is how easily people have made a major deal about the early posts. . . Which is really silly! Sure it is a thing that needs attention, but enough is enough!

Is it better than banter? If so, then quit complaining. If not, sorry - but *I* prefer discussion - on however silly a topic - to:

"So...how's about them votes?"

"Exciting."

"I hate Day 1s."

'Cause I'm just funny that way. ;)

[Inziladun]

Other than that, it's still a pretty wide field, and we have another 2 1/2 hours, so I believe I will keep some votes in reserve for a bit.

Actually, wasn't the extension settled at 1 hour? Which means DL is in about 13 minutes.

I think we need to look at the people who are currently in danger of being lynched (because apparently nobody wuvs 'em :( ).

Also, Simon should be a consideration. Looks like Nog, Fea, and Wilwa are all tied for first right now. And me?

x/d with Rune and Lottie (and the co-mod)

[Nerwen]

I haven't been able to read through all posts, so could somebody please tell me: Am I in major danger of being lynched?

No. You're not Mr Popular either, but Izzy, Pitch and Gwath are the ones currently in danger.

EDIT:X'd with Zil.

[satansaloser2005]

DL in 15 minutes.

[Nienna]

Ok... so the rest of my votes:

++ Wilwa - because I think she would make a good Simon
++ Form - because I think he would also make a good Simon... if he paid slightly more attention
++ Nog - because he's been making good sense.

[Nerwen]

Actually, wasn't the extension settled at 1 hour? Which means DL is in about 13 minutes.

Is it? I must have missed that bit.

Also, Simon should be a consideration. Looks like Nog, Fea, and Wilwa are all tied for first right now. And me?

Yes, but we were already talking about Simon, so to speak.

[Loslote]

No. You're not Mr Popular either, but Izzy, Pitch and Gwath are the ones currently in danger.

EDIT:X'd with Zil.

More Izzy and Pitchie right now, which is Not Good because I do not suspect either of them. :(

EDIT: xed with Nienna and Nerwen.

[alonariel]

Gwath - 1
Zil - 4
Nerwen - 3
Nienna - 3
Nog - 5
Brinn - 3
Mira - 3
Steve - 2
Lottie - 3
Glirdan - 3
Fea - 4
Form - 4
Wilwa - 5
Izzy - 0
Pitch - 0
Rune - 2

[Inziladun]

Is it? I must have missed that bit.

It was in the 'Admin' thread a bit ago.

[satansaloser2005]

Gwath - 1
Zil - 4
Nerwen - 3
Nienna - 3
Nog - 5
Brinn - 3
Mira - 3
Steve - 2
Lottie - 3
Glirdan - 3
Fea - 4
Form - 4
Wilwa - 5
Izzy - 0
Pitch - 0
Rune - 2

Have I mentioned how much I hate ties? Just sayin'.

[Nerwen]

Well, I'll vote now, then.

++Fea
++Steve
++Pitch Doesn't seem particularly wolfish, and is in danger of lynching.

And I've got one vote left– just wait a moment.

EDIT:X'd since last post.

[Brinniel]

I don't have much of an opinion toward either Pitchwife or Izzy right now. Which is a dilemma because I think I'd like to vote for one, but I'm not sure which. I don't want to vote for both since at the moment it'll make a three-way tie.

Now would be a good time for those in danger to plead for their lives...

EDIT: Okay, so Pitch has a vote now..

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

So I kind of wanted to use my last votes, but I think it would be strategically unwise . . .

Anyways vote for me, because I am kind of brilliant (in that non-Indira Ghandi kind of way)

I will leave you guys now as I have to get to Walsall in the morning.

----------------

And apparently it is ok to make a fuzz about nothing, just because nothing else is happening on day 1. Basicaly that is what I get from Loslote's post.

Just because I haven't discovered a smoking gun or anything else that might indicate wolfish behaviour, doesn't mean that I cannot argue with people who makes silly cases against other players.

[alonariel]

Gwath - 1
Zil - 4
Nerwen - 3
Nienna - 3
Nog - 5
Brinn - 3
Mira - 3
Steve - 3
Lottie - 3
Glirdan - 3
Fea - 5
Form - 4
Wilwa - 5
Izzy - 0
Pitch - 1
Rune - 2

[Nerwen]

I don't have much of an opinion toward either Pitchwife or Izzy right now. Which is a dilemma because I think I'd like to vote for one, but I'm not sure which. I don't want to vote for both since at the moment it'll make a three-way tie.

Same here– if I give my last vote to Izzy, who basically does seem all right, it just creates a 3-way tie.

[Loslote]

And apparently it is ok to make a fuzz about nothing, just because nothing else is happening on day 1. Basicaly that is what I get from Loslote's post.

Just because I haven't discovered a smoking gun or anything else that might indicate wolfish behaviour, doesn't mean that I cannot argue with people who makes silly cases against other players.

No, but to start up discussion, it's okay to be silly.* Silly gets people talking so you can get a read on them.

*That needs to be a song: It's Okay To Be Silly. Just sayin'.

EDIT: xed with Alona and Nerwen

[Inziladun]

I hate for Izzy to go, really. But I don't want to make a three way tie.

x/d with Nerwen and Lottie

[Isabellkya]

Yeah it is okay to be silly.
But there needs to actually be some sort of game related substance included.
Otherwise it is all just banter.


X'd with Inziladun.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

++Pitch

[Loslote]

Okay, if none of you want to see Izzy go, vote for her - and if enough of you do, she doesn't die and doesn't tie. This is a popularity contest, so vote for who you want to stay! :rolleyes:

EDIT: xed with Izzy and Fea.

[alonariel]

Gwath - 1
Zil - 4
Nerwen - 3
Nienna - 3
Nog - 5
Brinn - 3
Mira - 3
Steve - 3
Lottie - 3
Glirdan - 3
Fea - 5
Form - 4
Wilwa - 5
Izzy - 0
Pitch - 2
Rune - 2

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

No, but to start up discussion, it's okay to be silly.* Silly gets people talking so you can get a read on them.

*That needs to be a song: It's Okay To Be Silly. Just sayin'.

EDIT: xed with Alona and Nerwen

I don't mind people pointing out odd behaviour or things they think needs to be debated. . . I just think it is silly when people say "I think this nr. of wolves posted at 3am" without any proper theory behind it.

[Inziladun]

++Izzy

Now it's just two way with her and Gwath

[Eönwë]

Ok, I think I'll vote:

++Izzy

Because Gwath seems more suspicious.

edit: x-ed with Fea

[Loslote]

I don't mind people pointing out odd behaviour or things they think needs to be debated. . . I just think it is silly when people say "I think this nr. of wolves posted at 3am" without any proper theory behind it.

Yes, I am silly. I admit to sillyness. Sillyness is, in my book at least, a Good Thing.

EDIT: xed with Zil and Steve.

[alonariel]

Gwath - 1
Zil - 4
Nerwen - 3
Nienna - 3
Nog - 5
Brinn - 3
Mira - 3
Steve - 3
Lottie - 3
Glirdan - 3
Fea - 5
Form - 4
Wilwa - 5
Izzy - 1
Pitch - 2
Rune - 2

[Brinniel]

I don't see anything particularly suspicious with Izzy, but is it worth voting for her if it's just going to create a messy tie situation? Though it look like only a two-way tie now..

Okay.

++Izzy

and..

++Fea

Because I know she loves winning popularity contests... :smokin:

EDIT: X-posted. Okay, others voted for Izzy too it seems...

[Nerwen]

++Izzy

Ties her up with Gwath, I know... sorry...

Rune, be quiet, please.

EDIT:X'd sinceRune

[Isabellkya]

Yes it is a popularity contest, but we also need to catch wolves...
Don't forget that is the point here.
xD

X'd with everything after #188.

[the phantom]

You people wouldn't be agonizing over causing a tie if you had been smart enough to stroll in and immediately vote for your four best Downer friends. They'd likely return the favor and you'd be safe and you could sit back and let others worry at the deadline. Day 1 is a blind shot anyway.

[alonariel]

Gwath - 1
Zil - 4
Nerwen - 3
Nienna - 3
Nog - 5
Brinn - 3
Mira - 3
Steve - 3
Lottie - 3
Glirdan - 3
Fea - 6
Form - 4
Wilwa - 5
Izzy - 4
Pitch - 2
Rune - 2

[satansaloser2005]

Silence! DL!

[satansaloser2005]

Gwath is dead. He was an ordo. :(


Fea is your Simon for Day Two.


Wolves, gifteds, blah blah blah, gimme a few minutes to clear out my PM box then fire away as you like. :)

[satansaloser2005]

I'll probably add in something more about Fea being Simon but wanted to get this up so there was at least something here for you folks to look at. Narration follows.




“Hi everybody!”

“Hi Gwath!”

“You wanna lynch someone toDay?”

“Yeah! You!”

“Not again!”

“Ha ha ha ha!”

And with that everyone burst into song, the rest of the crowd inching closer to Gwath as they sang.

“I’m a normal guy, I just don’t know why
You always vote me, now you ignore me
I wish I’d survive just one until Day Five
So have fun loves, trying to catch werewolves”

“Come on, Gwath, it’s time for your lynch”

“I’m a normal guy, I just don’t know why
You always vote me, now you ignore me
I wish I’d survive just one until Day Five
So have fun loves, trying to catch werewolves

I'm a plain helpful ord in the harsh Werewolf world
Try to post, never boast, but still fodder”

“He’s a lynch that’s a cinch, no one keeps him around
Even when he’s a role that’s not werewolf”

“You could vote, but you won’t
See if I help you again. Neener neener!

I’m a normal guy, I just don’t know why
You always vote me, now you ignore me
I wish I’d survive just one until Day Five
So have fun loves, trying to catch werewolves”

“Come on, Gwath, it’s time for your lynch”
“Oh come on, guys!”
“Come on, Gwath, it’s time for your lynch”
“Seriously?”
“Come on, Gwath, it’s time for your lynch”
“Oh come on, guys!”
“Come on, Gwath, it’s time for your lynch”
“Seriously?”

“Gwath’s my name, just want fame, wanna be like the mods
Guys I just wanna play! I guess this is the cost”

“Come on guys, let’s surprise, no one vote him this time
If he dies with no lies that’s just normal”

“You could vote, but you won’t
See if I help you again
You could vote, but you won’t
See if I help you again”

“Come on, Gwath, it’s time for your lynch”
“Oh come on, guys!”
“Come on, Gwath, it’s time for your lynch”
“Seriously?”
“Come on, Gwath, it’s time for your lynch”
“Oh come on, guys!”
“Come on, Gwath, it’s time for your lynch”
“Seriously?”

“I’m a normal guy, I just don’t know why
They always vote me, now they ignore me
I wish I’d survive just one until Day Five
So have fun loves, trying to catch werewolves

I’m a normal guy, I just don’t know why
They always vote me, now they ignore me
I wish I’d survive just one until Day Five
So have fun loves, trying to catch werewolves”

“Come on, Gwath, it’s time for your lynch”
“Oh come on, guys!”
“Come on, Gwath, it’s time for your lynch”
“Seriously?”
“Come on, Gwath, it’s time for your lynch”
“Oh come on, guys!”
“Come on, Gwath, it’s time for your lynch”
“Seriously?”

Gwath tried to convince everyone to change their minds but no one would listen to him. He saw people gathering into various groups and found himself alone. “What, no one likes me?”

“Well, Gwath, it is a popularity contest!”

Gwath walked off alone, only to trip over a brick and crack his head open on the wall. As he lay bleeding the rest of the group was chattering away amongst each other, most of them gathering around Fea as she told them what she had planned for the next Day.

“Screw you too, village....”




The Dead
Shasta, his last moment made last on Night Zero (Co-Mod)
Alona, died of a broken (well, eaten) heart on Night Zero (Vote Count Girl/Co-Co-Mod)
Phantom, went out of his British mind (and then his regular one) on Night Zero (Heckler/General Trouble Maker)
Sally, didn’t dance and died on Night Zero (High Moddess)
Gwath, was brick walled on Day One (ordo)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Also, if you can't get through to Sally, shoot a PM my way. It's what I'm for, after all. :smokin:

[satansaloser2005]

Also, if you can't get through to Sally, shoot a PM my way. It's what I'm for, after all. :smokin:

What he said. In case of absolute emergency Alona's also lurking about the place.


Now get off the game thread (and go to bed, you silly thing)!

[satansaloser2005]

“I’ve come home to find you waiting?”

Thriller shrugged. “These things do happen,” she said simply.

“Never depressed for a dramatical entrance,” Chiller added with a roll of its eyes.

Killer looked at them all expectantly. “My friends?”

Diller grinned. “A heinous crime, a show of force.” It paused. “A murder would be nice of course.”

The others nodded and Killer smiled, showing Chiller and Diller a small photograph. Thriller didn’t get a chance to see it, instead looking down to answer her phone. The others ignored her and began to discuss plans. Finally Killer borrowed her phone, blocked her number, and typed a text, taking special care to remove the ‘Miss Mira’ signature as it sent the message.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Elsewhere Nienna was watching a movie. Her phone beeped and she looked down.

“Splendors you never have dreamed all your days will be yours.”

Nienna frowned and showed the rest of the text to the person sitting beside her. “It’s your birthday soon,” she suggested with a shrug. “Maybe it’s Lari or Shasta and they’re using someone else’s phone. I’ll check it out and talk to you later.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nienna walked into the deserted warehouse, pulling out her phone to see in the dark. There was nothing in the building but dust and a few cockroaches that looked very upset at having their darkness disturbed. “Hello?” Nienna called. “Is anyone in here?”

Mira dashed in and grabbed Nienna’s arm, pulling her toward the door.

“What the- let me go! Mira, what are you doing?”

“I can’t go back there,” Mira hissed. Nienna started to say something but Mira glared at her. “His eyes will find us there,” she mumbled cryptically, tugging on Nienna’s arm again. They had made it halfway down the deserted hallway when three strange figures appeared before them. Mira stopped in her tracks, quickly letting go of Nienna’s arm. “I can’t escape,” Mira said under her breath. “I never will.” Mira fell in line beside them, her hands shaking.

Killer stared at Nienna and sighed in disgust. “We’ll take the customers that we can get,” it said with a shrug, and smiled at its compatriots.

Mira just shook her head and finally stepped toward her. “We have all been blind,” she said, putting herself between the others and Nienna.

Nienna swallowed. “Mira, what’s going on?”

“Everybody get down now,” Chiller said. “Stand up, don’t be shy.”

“Mira?” Nienna’s mouth dropped open as she saw Mira pull up her sweater to reveal a bit of sparkling fabric. Mira looked utterly miserable, while her three companions looked gleeful, all of them wearing matching jumpsuits and covered in strange fur. “Mira, what’s going on?”

“These are my friends,” said Killer. “See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light. My friend?”

“Tonight I set the stage,” Chiller continued when Mira remained silent. It glanced at her and sighed. “Bloodbath,” it said flatly. “It’s going to be a bloodbath.”

“But I didn’t do anything,” Nienna persisted. “Why did you trick me? Mira?”

They looked at Mira strangely and she turned to Nienna. “Can you even bear to look at me?”

Chiller slapped Mira across the face and glared at her. “Remember who you are,” it cautioned.

“Gossip’s worth its weight in gold,” Mira said, turning toward Chiller and Killer. She pointed to Nienna, stepping away from them further. “Am I to risk my life to win the chance to live?”

Finally Killer stepped up to the both of them. “We all deserve to die,” it said, and thrust one of its claws into Nienna’s chest, blood beginning to pour from her almost immediately. It pulled a shot glass from its pocket, ignoring the looks from the others. “The work waits,” it said with a shrug. It smiled. “Seems an awful waste.”

Diller reached into its own pocket and produced a large bottle of vodka. “It’s not a perfect metaphor,” it admitted, grinning as it looked at Nienna, but handed the bottle to Mira anyway.

Mira stared at them all in shock. “If I agree, what horrors wait for me?”

“Mira....” Nienna fell to the ground and Mira knelt beside her. “Mira, help me....”

Instead Mira sighed. “Let me see it,” she said, gesturing toward Nienna’s chest. When Nienna pulled her hand away Mira sighed and held the shot glass up to it, waiting for it to be partly full before she pulled it away.

An hour later Mira was standing between Killer and Diller; the bottle nearly empty and her hands shaking every time she bent beside Nienna’s body.

The others watched but after a while Mira couldn’t get back up any more so Chiller took to refilling her glass for her. “It’s a thankless job, but somebody’s got to do it,” it said. Mira just glared at it. “You can never trust a monster,” it admitted, and handed her the glass.

“Think of me fondly?” Mira asked quietly. She gulped down another shot glass full of dark liquid and stumbled. She pointed to her face and smiled sadly. “This mask of death?”

“You break my friggin’ heart,” said Chiller, and turned away. The others glanced at each other then shrugged and followed Chiller out into the night.

Mira sobbed and fell to the ground beside Nienna’s corpse, watching as her old friends walked away from her. “It’s over now, the music of the night,” she whispered.

Nienna sat up suddenly, causing Mira to slide away. “No good deed goes unpunished,” she murmured, then she pulled a lighter out of her pocket, turned it on, and threw it into Mira’s hair. Mira screamed and the rest of the building began to burn as Nienna finally passed out.

Outside Killer, Diller, and Chiller watched the structure collapse. Diller giggled, doing a little dance of his own. “Smells like cumin,” he said brightly.

“Rest now my friends,” said Killer, and his two remaining companions smiled darkly at each other as they went their separate ways for the Night. As Killer walked away he frowned. “I think we shall not meet again,” he murmured, and stormed off into the night.


The Dead
Shasta, his last moment made last on Night Zero (Co-Mod)
Alona, died of a broken (well, eaten) heart on Night Zero (Vote Count Girl/Co-Co-Mod)
Phantom, went out of his British mind (and then his regular one) on Night Zero (Heckler/General Trouble Maker)
Sally, didn’t dance and died on Night Zero (High Moddess)
Gwath, was brick walled on Day One (ordo)
Nienna, brought the house down on Night One (Hunter)
Mira, died of blood alcohol poisoning on Night One (Thriller)

[satansaloser2005]

*blinks*

No posts? This makes me sad.


To narration land with me then! :)

[Inziladun]

*blinks*

No posts? This makes me sad.

I was thinking we were supposed to wait til the narration was up. :rolleyes:

Well, I feel badly now for suspecting Nienna, but at least we didn't lynch her. The wolves had to use a kill on her, and they're down one already on Day 2! Not a bad start at all.
It could be worthwhile to look back and see who expressed trust for Mira yesterDay, and gave her votes. All her packmates probably wouldn't have dared to be too obviously associated with her, but it's a good bet at least one of them might have shown a link.
Also, I wonder if our Simon, Fea will be sufficiently recovered to make an appearance.

[satansaloser2005]

I was thinking we were supposed to wait til the narration was up. :rolleyes:

Well, I feel badly now for suspecting Nienna, but at least we didn't lynch her. The wolves had to use a kill on her, and they're down one already on Day 2! Not a bad start at all.
It could be worthwhile to look back and see who expressed trust for Mira yesterDay, and gave her votes. All her packmates probably wouldn't have dared to be too obviously associated with her, but it's a good bet at least one of them might have shown a link.
Also, I wonder if our Simon, Fea will be sufficiently recovered to make an appearance.


I think Fea died. Just a little, though.

Which reminds me....


Through the awesome power of Simon Fea, Wilwa's score has been boosted by two points. Everyone else is still at their normal zero. Just so's you all know.

[Nerwen]

It could be worthwhile to look back and see who expressed trust for Mira yesterDay, and gave her votes. All her packmates probably wouldn't have dared to be too obviously associated with her, but it's a good bet at least one of them might have shown a link.

Lottie (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622872&postcount=30) (#30)
Nog (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622897&postcount=41) (#41)
Wilwa (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622912&postcount=56) (#56)
find her Night-posting not particularly suspicious.

Pitch (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622948&postcount=92) (#92) lists her with Izzy, me, wilwa and "maybe Brinn" as those he trusts "to a slightly lesser degree".

However,
Nogrod (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622952&postcount=96) (#96) lists her, along with Izzy, Pitch and Steve as "The ones I do suspect more or less... "

Steve (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622980&postcount=118) (#118) simply lists her in his "unsure" category.

Formendacil (#110) votes for her (along with other Night-posters) "for not making me look like a complete idiot".

Loslote (#119) votes Zil and Nienna but "will probably not (but might be persuaded to) vote Formy, Nerwen, Mira, or Gwath".

Mira herself (#135) votes Glirdan, Fea, Lottie and Form. Her reasons may be of interest:

++Glirdan Also don't want him to get lynched Day 1. Poor kid never gets to play this game anymore.

++Fea She's much too amusing to kill off this early.

++Form I really don't think a wolf would slip up and post before they were supposed to. Especially one as experienced as Form.

++Lottie No real reason, just have an okay feeling about her.

Isabellkya (#143) votes Mira, along with Wilwa, Nienna and Zil "in an effort not to have a widespread tie".

And apparently somebody cast a third vote for Mira, but I can't find who that was.

EDIT:X'd with Moddess.
EDIT2:fixed mistake.

[Glirdan]

So I figured I would check in quickly before heading off to bed and now I am quite happy that I did. It is sad that Nienna was killed during the Night for she definitely could have proved to have been of some great help to us, but at least she didn't die in vain! Day 2 and we are down to three Wolves: good fortune for us.

Maybe I can manage to stay up a little while longer to go over her and Mira's posts from yesterDay.

EDIT: Xed with Nerwen

[Glirdan]

So, going over the posts from yesterDay, concentrating on Mira, Nienna and Gwath. Posting the links to the post to by the way, in case any of you want to go back and read through them. Will make my comments afterwards.

So first, let's start with the Wolf.

Mira

Post #3 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622805&postcount=3)

Second to post during our Night phase. Nothing substantial, just banter and telling everyone she would be away.

Post #20 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622861&postcount=20)

Again, nothing, just saying she would not be around.

Post #27 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622868&postcount=27)

Explaining her reasoning as to why she posted during the Night phase.

Post #80 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622936&postcount=80)

First post with a little substance to it. There is a bit of banter, but there is one quote of our deceased Hunter that she brings up and agrees with.

Post #135 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622998&postcount=135)

Quotes Fea (more banter really) and goes and casts her votes for myself, Fea, Form and Lottie. This is also her last post.

Comments
She played it low profile AND also happened to be one of the pre-Day posters. Perhaps one of her furry compatriots happens to be one of those that posted along with her. Two of those she voted for also happened to be two of those that posted during that time: Form and Lottie. However, I will eliminate Lottie from that as she only posted to tell everyone to shut their mouths. Perhaps taking a closer look at Form toDay would be in our best interest.

[Loslote]

Polo?

Pretty self explanatory.

I agree with Nerwen. The people who posted pre-Day are under just as much suspicion as the rest of us. Maybe in a few days that information can be used in conjunction with other evidence but for now they could be anything.

Doesn't want to draw conclusions about the Night-posters, but says it could be helpful to look back at it later.

I think Nog is right about the amount of cooperation it is going to take to lynch the wolves in this game. This worries me a little just because trying to get this many people to cooperate when there aren't evil ones in the midst would be a pain. We need to focus and make very conscious decisions about who to vote for. We need to look at everyone including the people who are quiet or who haven't even posted at all. We need to make sure that the votes are spread (I never thought I'd hear myself say that!). There is going to be a lot of confusion at Day's end even with the cautions against it. It is inevitable. It will be much too easy to get someone not-killed by both the innocent and the guilty alike.

We also need to think clearly about who we want as Simon though not necessarily use all our votes for people we think would make good Simons as we need to also vote for people we just don't want to die.

Agrees with Nog that end-of-Day will be chaotic; warns that the votes need to be spread out; advises looking at quiet people; calls for spreading of the votes; and advises clear thinking about Simon. (That seriously sounds like a Model UN resolution. I probably shouldn't be writing both at the same time.) All of that's good adivce. We should listen to her.

Electing a wolf as Simon won't be good but I also don't think it would be tragic... at least not at this stage of the game. We need to use our votes to pick someone who would be reasonable as Simon but we also need to make sure we use our votes to lynch someone. That is how we will get rid of wolves. That is how we will win.

Notices that elecing a wolf as Simon wouldn't be awful (good point again) and mentions that we need to purposefully lynch people (also a good point). She then follows it with the "That is how we will"s that people found so suspicious (Maybe look at the people who jumped on that).

I think Nog has an interesting idea. I don't know as it has to be something as [not] "official" as bolding or using -- but it is definitely a good idea for people to bring up who they think should be lynched and why so that we aren't just all scrambling and so that we have a sense of purpose.

In some respects it might be a touch easier as I usually find myself thinking that a few people seem innocent but I can't put my finger on one specific person who looks guilty... at least in the beginning stages. But we'll see.

Agrees with Nog's "announce who we want to lynch" idea; doesn't think it needs to be so official; likes Sally's voting.

Children, children... calm down... its fine... just a game.

Tries to calm down people, I think mostly Steve, Pitchie, and Nog.

So these are the post counts. It looks like everyone, except Fea, has made some sort of contribution.

Brinn - 1
Dun - 5
Fea - 1 - first post... not saying anything
Form - 2
Glirdan - 3
Gwath - 3
Izzy - 3
Lottie - 7
Mira - 4
Nerwen - 7
Nienna - 6
Nog - 11
Pitch - 5
Rune - 2
Steve - 12
Wilwa - 2

Does a post count.

Not entirely... I think that with 16 people and only 4 votes then one doesn't really find 12 people suspicious... or wolfish. They are just the people left over who you don't have confidence in or who you don't want to die.

Responding to Izzy. Not much there that I saw. Made a logical point.

*confuzzled*

Nog:
1. Gwath
2. ZIl
3. Nerwen
4. Nienna

Zil:
1. Nog
2. Nerwen
3. Brinn

Form:
1. Mira
2. Nerwen (3)
3. Steve
4. Lottie

Wilwa:
1. Glirdan
2. Fea
3. Nog (2)
4. Lottie (2)

Brinn:
1. Gilrdan (2)

Lottie:
1. Nienna (2)
2. Zil (2)

that is what I have.

Edit: Unless you are just doing post count

Corrects Alona's post count with a vote count.

Vote #1 for me:

++ Rune

I don't want to see him go this early in a game. I'd like to have at least another day with him.

Votes Rune because she wants to see him play more.

I have Nog at 3 as well.

Corrects how many votes Nog has.

Ok... so the rest of my votes:

++ Wilwa - because I think she would make a good Simon
++ Form - because I think he would also make a good Simon... if he paid slightly more attention
++ Nog - because he's been making good sense.

Votes Wilwa and Formy because she thought they would make good Simons and votes Nog because he made good sense.

~~~

Nog comes up a lot in Nienna's posts, and she seems to trust him fairly well. As a known innocent, Nienna's trust has a bit more weight than the rest of our trust (what with the whole "we could be trying to twist your little brains" thing), so I'm inclinded to think of Nog as someone to listen to with a bit of a "he's probably innocent" leaning.

Also, Nienna made some really good points in there. We should listen to her.

EDIT: xed with Glirdy and de-highlighting for the sake of Alona's sanity

[Isabellkya]

*blinks*

No posts? This makes me sad.


To narration land with me then! :)

I'd read it, before you'd made this post. But with the absence of posts, I wasn't entirely sure it was okay to post. Didn't want to be an early night poster. xD

Sad that the Hunter is gone so quickly, but niice that she took a wolf with her. xD

Fea was the third to vote for Mira.

[Glirdan]

Now onto our Hunter:

Nienna

Post #15 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622856&postcount=15)

Banter.

Post #25 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622866&postcount=25)

Agrees with Nerwen about the pre-Day posters.


Post #39 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622895&postcount=39)

Agrees with Nog about the lynching of a Wolf and how difficult it will be. Brings up the point that we should not just vote for who we think would be the best Simon, but who we don't want to see die.


Post #51 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622907&postcount=51)

Quotes Pitch and agrees with his point that it would be bad to have a Wolf as our Simon but would not be tragic at this stage in the game. Goes on to say that we make sure that our votes go towards both a Simon and also making sure we lynch someone.

Post #61 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622917&postcount=61)

Believes Nog has an interesting idea about our voting system, but does not believe that we should make it as elaborate.

Post #86 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622942&postcount=86)

Playing mother and stopping a fight...reminds me of Bostonmoot. :D

Post #87 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622943&postcount=87)

Post Count Tally


Post #90 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622946&postcount=90)

Slight disagreement with Nerwen about voting.

Post #125 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622988&postcount=125)

Vote Count Tally

Post #148 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=623011&postcount=148)

First vote which goes to Rune.

Post #155 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=623018&postcount=155)

Just confirming how many votes Nog had at that point.

Post #171 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=623034&postcount=171)

Her other three votes go to Wilwa, Form and Nog

Comments
Raised some valid points in most of her posts. She also talked agreed with Nog a lot as well which makes me more inclined to believe that he is innocent.

EDIT: X'd with Izzy and Lottie

[Loslote]

Comments
Raised some valid points in most of her posts. She also talked agreed with Nog a lot as well which makes me more inclined to believe that he is innocent.

EDIT: X'd with Izzy and Lottie

Nice to know I'm not just silly and someone else noticed it, too...she does talk about/to him a lot, doesn't she? You'd almost think she was a seer and dreamed him...maybe that's why the wolves killed her, thinking she *was* the seer. Huh.

[Glirdan]

And last but not least

Gwath

Post #62 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622918&postcount=62)

Bit of banter, but brings up the point that people's playing styles may be altered because of the nature of this game. Brings up another interesting point that for this game, we should reassess the way we analyze the votes.

Post #83 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622939&postcount=83)

Quotes Eonwe


Post #84 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622940&postcount=84)

Kind of pointless post really....nothing at all except what seems to be a thought continuation from his previous post.

Post #93 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622949&postcount=93)

Banter.

Post #133 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622996&postcount=133)

Votes for Eonwe, Nog, Brinn and Form.

Post #160 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=623023&postcount=160)

Clearing up confusion for himself.

Comments
After having gone through his and Nienna's posts, I'm even more inclined to trust Nog. I am also re-evaluating my thoughts on Form as that is two known innocents who put their trust into him. I think for now he is in my unsure list.

X'd with Lottie again.

And no, you're not silly...entirely :p

[Loslote]

Trust:
Lottie
Nog
Zil
Fea


Unsure, lean innocent:
Wilwa
Glirdy
Nerwen
Pitchie

Unsure, lean evil:
?Brinn
Formy
Izzy

Suspect:
Steve
Rune

EDIT: xed with Glirdy - I did not say I was not silly, I said I was not *just* silly. ;)

[satansaloser2005]

Trust:
Lottie
Nog
Zil
Fea



Ah, yes, but you can't vote for yourself. I look forward to watching you deliberate as to a fourth candidate. :Merisu:

[Glirdan]

Well as it stands right now, I must head off to bed as I have rehearsal in about 6 hours time and should probably get some sleep considering. :rolleyes: But I will be back tomorrow and should also be more active then on Day 1. See you all then!

EDIT: X'd with dearest Moddess....and just when I thought I could get off without having to do this for the third time in a row :D :rolleyes:

[satansaloser2005]

Well as it stands right now, I must head off to bed as I have rehearsal in about 6 hours time and should probably get some sleep considering. :rolleyes: But I will be back tomorrow and should also be more active then on Day 1. See you all then!

Than, you silly bugger, than. And yay for a more active Glirdan. ^_^

[Loslote]

Twinkle, twinkle, little Steve,
How I wonder what you are.
Posting in this werewolf game,
Night or Day, it's all the same.
Twinkle, twinkle, little Steve,
How I wonder what you are!

When the blazing sun is gone,
When he nothing shines upon,
Then you show your little light,
Twinkle, twinkle, all the Night.
Twinkle, twinkle, little Steve,
How I wonder what you are!

Then when Nog suggests a plan,
Against him you do show your hand;
Pitchie, too, does fight against,
Nogrod's plan; there is much angst.
Twinkle, twinkle, little Steve,
How I wonder what you are!

~~~

Could not help myself. :p

EDIT: Thought of a better rhyme and xed with Moddess and Glirdy.

[Loslote]

Ah, yes, but you can't vote for yourself. I look forward to watching you deliberate as to a fourth candidate. :Merisu:

Gah! *shakes fist at cruel, cruel fate* :p

[satansaloser2005]

Gah! *shakes fist at cruel, cruel fate* :p

Oi, I resemble that remark! :p




Hmmmm....I have an idea.



I propose a contest, a special thing of the Day. Anyone who likes to is encouraged to compose a sweet song of silliness for the moddess. Post it to the thread and the one I like most wins. I will judge not only on what song your parody is based off of, but also how well it rhymes, hilarity, relevance, etc. Obviously you don't have to participate if you don't want to, but the winner will receive three points added to their score for the Day, and will get an automatic extra point for toMorrow (assuming they're still alive) as well. Begin!

(Which is to say you can do anything game-related or just try your best to suck up. Whatever butters your toast, really. I'm prepared to be amused.)




:Merisu:

[satansaloser2005]

The moddess rests. Be good minions while I'm away. ^_^

[Loslote]

Sweet. I was going to do a Steve-alysis, but this is much more fun! :p

Can't Believe It's Werewolf!

Lottie: I can't believe it's Werewolf!
I think I'll finally help my team win
Can't believe it's Werewolf,
My favorite game to play!

Pitchie: I can't believe it's Werewolf!
Been dreaming of those awsome werewolves
Can't believe it's Werewolf,
Oh, boy! It's finally here!

Downer Wolfers: Ho, ho! Away we go!
With flaming torch and nooses swinging
Hey, hey! Our favorite game!
It makes us want to cheer!

Pitchie: Yo, ho! We love the lynch!

Mira: At least we know we won't go quiet!

Downer Wolfers: Ya, hey! We're glad to say
That Werewolf time is here!

We can't believe it's Werewolf!
Been waiting for a million hours
Can't believe it's Werewolf,
Oh what a nifty game!

We can't believe it's Werewolf!

Formy: Forgot about that dang Night phase!

Downer Wolfers: Can't believe it's Werewolf!
And now it's time to play!

We can't believe it's Werewolf!
We think we'll finally help our teams win
Can't believe it's Werewolf,
Our favorite game to play!

We can't believe it's Werewolf!
Been dreaming of those scary wolf-things
Can't believe it's Werewolf,
Oh, boy! It's finally...

Sally: Oi, be quiet!

Downer Wolfers: Boy, it's finally here!

EDIT: xed with Moddess

[Loslote]

#5 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622808&postcount=5): Night banter.

#8 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622811&postcount=8): Oops, it's Night.

#46 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622902&postcount=46): Explaination for Night posting.

#48 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622904&postcount=48): Explains game rules and concludes that everyone will want to seem helpful because of them. Notes that it'll be harder for submarine wolves, and that everyone will be trying to act like a wolf.

#54 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622910&postcount=54): Doesn't really commit to Pitchie's suggestion to kill crazy and confusing people; agrees (to an extent) with Nienna's point that a wolf!Simon wouldn't be disasterous now but worries about later.

#60 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622916&postcount=60), #65 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622921&postcount=65), #69 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622925&postcount=69), #72 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622928&postcount=72), #77 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622933&postcount=77),#82 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622938&postcount=82), and #85 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622941&postcount=85) are all debating with Nog about suspecting vs. trusting. I don't know about anyone else, but I found that annoying to read through the first time (when I thought dl was fast approaching and was trying to get caught up) and extremely suspicious the next few times. Steve explains his earlier posts; qualifies his earlier posts; and flip-flops a lot, all the while arguing with Nog.

Then, in #91 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622947&postcount=91), he reminds Glirdy to highlight his vote.

In #95 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622951&postcount=95), he flip-flops about the Simony (should we elect someone we are unsure about as Simon) before deciding that purposefully electing someone is impractical.

#104 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622961&postcount=104) is a rule-quoting for The Phantom.

#118 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622980&postcount=118) is a list. Lottie's Cliff Notes: He suspects Nienna because she "seems to be agreeing lot rather than making any new points." <-*coughdidyoureadherpostsatallcough*. He says that Nog "makes some good points." <- which, the ones you've been arguing with for most of your posts? He says that Pitchie looks "innocent who just overdid it a bit on the non-"Nog-quasi-voting" front." <- HE overdid it? He also has no one in the definite "trust" or "suspect" categories, but that looks almost more innocent than evil. Other than that, the list looks sound.

#121 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622984&postcount=121): more Phantom banter.

#132 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622995&postcount=132): notes the silence and says he might vote soon.

#142 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=623005&postcount=142): comment on Alona's post/vote count.

#151 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=623014&postcount=151): votes Brinn and Wilwa.

#157 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=623020&postcount=157): votes Nog.

And finally, in #190 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=623053&postcount=190): votes Izzy "because Gwath seems more suspicious."

~~~

Steve remains at the top of my suspect list.

[Nerwen]

Nice to know I'm not just silly and someone else noticed it, too...she does talk about/to him a lot, doesn't she? You'd almost think she was a seer and dreamed him...maybe that's why the wolves killed her, thinking she *was* the seer. Huh.

Could be. I'd say we can perhaps take that as evidence (okay, not proof) of Nog's innocence.

I am also re-evaluating my thoughts on Form as that is two known innocents who put their trust into him. I think for now he is in my unsure list.

Hmmn. I'm not sure that a couple of innocents trusting someone on Day One means all that much. It's not like they knew anything. Not that I particularly suspect Form– I'm just saying, I'm surprised you find it that significant.

Unsure, lean evil:
?Brinn
Formy
Izzy

Suspect:
Steve
Rune


Now, why Brinn and Izzy? Also, why Rune? Because of the way he acted near DL yesterDay?

[Pitchwife]

#54: Doesn't really commit to Pitchie's suggestion to kill crazy and confusing people
For the record, I was in fact suggesting the opposite thing: to vote those people, but not to lynch but to keep - based on the consideration that the Wolves would need even more to appear helpful and trustworthy in this game than usual. It wasn't really a dead serious suggestion, more a thought experiment, hence the question-mark. (Anyway, I know ingrained thinking-habits die hard, so I'm not making much of this misrepresentation.)

I don't quite get where all this wave of trust in Nog comes from. As Nerwen just said concerning Form, it's not like our deceased innocents knew anything, they could have been just as mistaken as everybody else. Nog started out making some good points yesterDay, but I don't like how he used my disagreement about a minor technical point (introduction of marked lynch votes) as the starting point for big-time suspicion that almost succeeded in getting me lynched. And I don't at all like the way he acts like he knows what is best for us all and everybody who dares to disagree is working against the common good, hence wolvish. (Yeah, that's what the phantom said to do, but since when has going by anybody's book, even the phantom's, been a hallmark of genius? Or innocence, for that matter.)
Nothing of this is really new, of course, it's just getting on my nerves a bit more than usual. Especially as I don't really disagree with any of his substantial points - yes, of course we've got to catch Wolves, of course we should suspect people, of course we need to get the Wolves lynched; thanks for reminding us all that this is a Werewolf game, I'm sure some people had quite forgotten that:rolleyes:. I don't think anybody was seriously debating that, it's just that we've got to handle the matter a little differently than we normally do. End of discussion.
And now I've got this out of my system, time for some thinking.

[Pitchwife]

It also occurs to me, on another note, that it will be much easier for the wolves to get someone lynched during the day without attracting attention, and much, much harder to assign blame for a player's lynch to any one or two other players. All the wolves have to do is ignore the intended victim. So - time to reassess how we analyze votes. Who are people trying to keep around? Who are they not mentioning in their posts? Et cetera.
A very good point, I think, and one that bears some thinking about. What would be the consequences of this game's dynamics for wolvish voting behaviour? Would they actively vote to keep their packmates around? Not as long as none of them is in serious danger of getting lynched, of course, but otherwise? Also, is wolf-on-wolf more or less likely in this game, or would there be no difference? Thoughts, anybody?

[Nerwen]

I don't quite get where all this wave of trust in Nog comes from. As Nerwen just said concerning Form, it's not like our deceased innocents knew anything, they could have been just as mistaken as everybody else.

Lottie's suggestion at #213 You'd almost think she was a seer and dreamed him...maybe that's why the wolves killed her, thinking she *was* the seer.

is more logical. Still highly speculative though– they could have killed Nienna for a completely different reason. After all, she was a good player who also wasn't likely to be Ranger–protected.

And I don't at all like the way he acts like he knows what is best for us all and everybody who dares to disagree is working against the common good, hence wolvish.

*shrugs* Nogrod does that whatever he is, Pitch. Had you really not noticed before?

A very good point, I think, and one that bears some thinking about. What would be the consequences of this game's dynamics for wolvish voting behaviour? Would they actively vote to keep their packmates around? Not as long as none of them is in serious danger of getting lynched, of course, but otherwise? Also, is wolf-on-wolf more or less likely in this game, or would there be no difference? Thoughts, anybody?

What does wolf-on-wolf even mean in this game? If it's just stating suspicions, then I think it's more likely, because it doesn't cost the wolves quite as much as if they were expected to back said suspicions up with a lynch-vote. (Still might result in getting a packmate lynched by default, though).

[Eönwë]

So, the hunter takes his revenge early. Most impressive, especially after only 1 Day.

It also gives us an extra Day which we are allowed to make a mistake in.

[Eönwë]

OK, before I do anything else:

#54 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622910&postcount=54): Doesn't really commit to Pitchie's suggestion to kill crazy and confusing people;
Firstly, as Pitch has already said, it's the other way around. Also, I don't think any of our two posts were meant totally seriously. Next you'll suggest that Pitchwife was going to create a craziness scale and vote (wait, no, lynch :p) people higher up.

#60 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622916&postcount=60), #65 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622921&postcount=65), #69 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622925&postcount=69), #72 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622928&postcount=72), #77 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622933&postcount=77),#82 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622938&postcount=82), and #85 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622941&postcount=85) are all debating with Nog about suspecting vs. trusting. I don't know about anyone else, but I found that annoying to read through the first time (when I thought dl was fast approaching and was trying to get caught up) and extremely suspicious the next few times. Steve explains his earlier posts; qualifies his earlier posts; and flip-flops a lot, all the while arguing with Nog.
Firstly, the last of those posts was made when there were three hours until the planned DL. Three hours! If you miscalculated the time then you shouldn't attack me just because you were in a bad mood. Anyway, all I was saying in all of those posts is that in this game we're given a new weapon against the wolves. Why waste it and try to turn this into a normal game when
(a) We haven't yet explored this new style of voting; and
(b) We can't turn this into a normal game anyway because we're voting for the opposite thing?

That's not to say that no-one should post their suspicions (as I have said countless times before now). That's what a large proportion of posts are anyway. That's what needs to be done in order to do anything in this game. It's just that I don't think these fake votes are necessary.

And then everyone assumes that I'm trying to stifle people's opinions?

And since when did Nogrod become He Who Only Speaks The Truth? It seems that everyone has just blindly followed him, because he suggested that we should mention who we find suspicious, which is what we do anyway.

However, I will say this- Yesterday there were quite a few people who didn't mention who they thought was suspicious and in this way maybe Nogrod had the right idea. It was just that I thought a fake vote was going too far.

He suspects Nienna because she "seems to be agreeing lot rather than making any new points." <-*coughdidyoureadherpostsatallcough*. Have you? A lot of her posts are just agreeing with people. Look at this (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=623091&postcount=212). #51 is a good point, but #61 is just the obvious (which I'll admit I did neglect to mention in my post just before). Then she comes in with a post count which isn't really that useful. The she does make quite good point in the next post (#90), but I don't think I read that at the time (and she basically just continuing along #51's line of thought anyway). The rest of her posts were after my list.

He says that Pitchie looks "innocent who just overdid it a bit on the non-"Nog-quasi-voting" front." <- HE overdid it? Ok, I admit it, not only was I hypocritical there, but wrong. Happy now?

And finally, in #190 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=623053&postcount=190): votes Izzy "because Gwath seems more suspicious."
Well, if you look at my list, Izzy was on the innocent side. On my vote post, I seem to have said "x-ed with Fea" rather than "since Fea". Seeing that Pitch (who I thought more innocent) had got Fea's vote, I wanted to save Izzy too, as it didn't seem like anyone would be voting Gwath (on my suspicious list, by the way). Anything wrong with that?



Now to actually start the Day...

[Pitchwife]

*shrugs* Nogrod does that whatever he is, Pitch. Had you really not noticed before?
No, how could I;)? That's why I said it wasn't really new, I suppose...
I agree, however, that Lottie has a point there. It also speaks for him that he was the only one who voted for our poor deceased Gwath quite early on.
Which reminds me...

Votes for the dead

Gwath (known innocent):
- Nog

Nienna (known innocent, Hunter):
- Nog (1)
- Lottie (2)
- Izzy (3)

Mira (known wolf):
- Form (1)
- Izzy (2)
- Fea (3)

Votes by the dead
(just summing up for Mira and Nienna, who have been analysed by Lottie and Glirdan above)

Gwath (known innocent):
- Eonwe (2)
- Nog (3)
- Brinn (2)
- Form (-)

Nienna (known innocent, Hunter):
- Rune (2)
- wilwa (5)
- Form (4)
- Nog (5)

Mira (known wolf):
- Glirdan (3)
- Fea (2)
- Form (2)
- Lottie (3)

Mira's stated reasons for her votes:
++Glirdan Also don't want him to get lynched Day 1. Poor kid never gets to play this game anymore.
Understandable, I think.
++Fea She's much too amusing to kill off this early.
I absolutely concur.
++Form I really don't think a wolf would slip up and post before they were supposed to. Especially one as experienced as Form.
This is interesting - a defense of Form that also just happens to work as a self-defense. Now, of course, we know that one of the Wolves did slip up exactly like that. It's also interesting that Form gave a similar reason for his vote for Mira.
++Lottie No real reason, just have an okay feeling about her.
Nothing suspicious there, as far as I can tell - but again, looking for connections, it's interesting that Form also voted for Lottie. From a wolf, it might be a smart move to vote confidence for someone who has suspected you just a wee bit but not seemed terribly eager to lynch you - makes you look more innocentish, like "See? I've got no reason to fear you".

EDIT: x-ed with Steve

[Pitchwife]

Now please, people, don't go talking all at the same time! It's too much action for my poor old nerves...
Might as well go walk the dogs. See you later.

[wilwarin538]

Wilwa (#119) votes Zil and Nienna but "will probably not (but might be persuaded to) vote Formy, Nerwen, Mira, or Gwath".


nope nope:

Ok, gonna do this now thens:

++Glirdan

Cause I don't want the poor kid getting lynched Day 1 again.

++Fea

Cause all she's said was 1 word and I don't want a submarine type to get lynched just for lack of posts.

++Nog

Cause I feel good about him.


and then I later voted for Lottie aswell. You must have me mixed up with someone else.



So I am here. I'm going to just let you all know now that I am beyond exhausted. My cat Beau has this weird respitory infection and he slept with me last night like always and I basically didn't sleep cause I was so paranoid that he'd stop breathing on me. Probably the most dreadful sounds I have ever heard coming out of a living thing. :( So I don't have much to do today at all (no animal clinics open til tomorrow anyway, so dumb) so I'll be here quite a bit, but I am really tired and kind of distracted by him. So if I don't make any sense at some point or mix up names or some sort of such nonsense, that's why.

I'm going to go read through today again so I can come up with something coherent. Good job Nienna!

[Inziladun]

And apparently somebody cast a third vote for Mira, but I can't find who that was.

I also only found two votes for Mira, Izzy and Form. It is interesting to me that Form also voted for Mira and, as had been noted, both were also among the Night posters. Coincidence? At this point, I'm inclined to think not.

[Mira] played it low profile AND also happened to be one of the pre-Day posters. Perhaps one of her furry compatriots happens to be one of those that posted along with her. Two of those she voted for also happened to be two of those that posted during that time: Form and Lottie. However, I will eliminate Lottie from that as she only posted to tell everyone to shut their mouths. Perhaps taking a closer look at Form toDay would be in our best interest.

I don't think that entirely clears Lottie, since I guess it is possible she, along with Mira and Form, could all three be wolves and Lottie had thought of publicly shushing them to give herself a more innocent look. However, I think Lottie does look better than Form.

Nice to know I'm not just silly and someone else noticed it, too...she does talk about/to him a lot, doesn't she? You'd almost think she was a seer and dreamed him...maybe that's why the wolves killed her, thinking she *was* the seer. Huh.

I think that's a reach. I didn't see anything Seer-worthy about Nienna at all. I'd go more with her being a fairly trailless kill, and, since Mira was a wolf and knows Nienna well in RL, she would have been an even more inviting target, someone especially dangerous to Mira.

[wilwarin538]

Comments
She played it low profile AND also happened to be one of the pre-Day posters. Perhaps one of her furry compatriots happens to be one of those that posted along with her. Two of those she voted for also happened to be two of those that posted during that time: Form and Lottie. However, I will eliminate Lottie from that as she only posted to tell everyone to shut their mouths. Perhaps taking a closer look at Form toDay would be in our best interest.

But we can't eliminate Lottie all together just for that reason.

Nice to know I'm not just silly and someone else noticed it, too...she does talk about/to him a lot, doesn't she? You'd almost think she was a seer and dreamed him...maybe that's why the wolves killed her, thinking she *was* the seer. Huh.

(this was about Nienna talking about Nog) This is possible and would make Nog look pretty good.

Than, you silly bugger, than. And yay for a more active Glirdan. ^_^

I agree! Sooo happy to have my bff back on here. And alive day 2. :D And I make the same mistake with than/then all the time, it may be a Canadian thing. :p

For the record, I was in fact suggesting the opposite thing: to vote those people, but not to lynch but to keep - based on the consideration that the Wolves would need even more to appear helpful and trustworthy in this game than usual. It wasn't really a dead serious suggestion, more a thought experiment, hence the question-mark. (Anyway, I know ingrained thinking-habits die hard, so I'm not making much of this misrepresentation.)

I don't quite get where all this wave of trust in Nog comes from. As Nerwen just said concerning Form, it's not like our deceased innocents knew anything, they could have been just as mistaken as everybody else. Nog started out making some good points yesterDay, but I don't like how he used my disagreement about a minor technical point (introduction of marked lynch votes) as the starting point for big-time suspicion that almost succeeded in getting me lynched. And I don't at all like the way he acts like he knows what is best for us all and everybody who dares to disagree is working against the common good, hence wolvish. (Yeah, that's what the phantom said to do, but since when has going by anybody's book, even the phantom's, been a hallmark of genius? Or innocence, for that matter.)
Nothing of this is really new, of course, it's just getting on my nerves a bit more than usual. Especially as I don't really disagree with any of his substantial points - yes, of course we've got to catch Wolves, of course we should suspect people, of course we need to get the Wolves lynched; thanks for reminding us all that this is a Werewolf game, I'm sure some people had quite forgotten that. I don't think anybody was seriously debating that, it's just that we've got to handle the matter a little differently than we normally do. End of discussion.
And now I've got this out of my system, time for some thinking.

K, for some reason this entire post screams Innocent to me. It just reminds me of myself I think a bit. Cause quite often in games (atleast recently) I've been a frustrated innocent who has happened to disagree with Nog and it's a very stressful situation :rolleyes:. So this post just makes me feel quite good about Pitch.



Mira's stated reasons for her votes:

Quote:
++Glirdan Also don't want him to get lynched Day 1. Poor kid never gets to play this game anymore.

Understandable, I think.



Yes, well it is. But it could also just be a very convenient reason to cover her protecting a wolf. I really really want to trust Glirdy, but him and I both know we never trust each other. It's so weird.


Quote:
++Fea She's much too amusing to kill off this early.

I absolutely concur.


I also agree with this. It could again be just a convenient reason to protect a wolf, but I don't think so. If she was using that reason for anyone else then I would find it weird, but for Fea I really think this was her for real reason for keeping her around.


Quote:
++Form I really don't think a wolf would slip up and post before they were supposed to. Especially one as experienced as Form.

This is interesting - a defense of Form that also just happens to work as a self-defense. Now, of course, we know that one of the Wolves did slip up exactly like that. It's also interesting that Form gave a similar reason for his vote for Mira.


I find this very interesting. Though I think it is unlikely that 2 wolves would make the same mistake, especially being the first to start it like Form, it's still possible. I don't know, I'm really iffy on this situation.


Quote:
++Lottie No real reason, just have an okay feeling about her.

Nothing suspicious there, as far as I can tell - but again, looking for connections, it's interesting that Form also voted for Lottie. From a wolf, it might be a smart move to vote confidence for someone who has suspected you just a wee bit but not seemed terribly eager to lynch you - makes you look more innocentish, like "See? I've got no reason to fear you".


I find myself trusting Lottie, but I see it as very likely that each wolf voted to protect at least 1, if not 2, of their fellow wolves. So I think atleast 1 wolf needs to be amoung these 4. Lottie is really the one with the flimsiest reason for the protection (yes, I protected her too with no reason at the time, I'm aware). So even though I'm inclined to trust her, this is just standing out a lot to me.

So out of the four, in order of who I think is most likely a wolf: Lottie, Glirdy, Form and then Fea. Even though I feel good about all of them, so it's a tough situation.

x'ed with Inzil

[wilwarin538]

Oh, I forgot that Lottie had also posted during Night 1. I suppose it's unlikely that 3 of the 4 wolves would have (so it seems unlikely that both her and Form are wolves). Though her's being more of a "be quiet" type post I don't know if it really *counts*. Hmm...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I also only found two votes for Mira, Izzy and Form.

Form, Izzy, and I voted for Stick (I voted for her in Stick form, not Mira form, which might account for not noticing it).

Form was voted for by Gwath, Stick, Rune, and Ni.

Izzy was voted for by Zil, Brinn, Steve, and Nerwen. Possibly another if I forgot to add in a last vote.

I think that's a reach. I didn't see anything Seer-worthy about Nienna at all. I'd go more with her being a fairly trailless kill, and, since Mira was a wolf and knows Nienna well in RL, she would have been an even more inviting target, someone especially dangerous to Mira.

Upon this, I agree.

I find this very interesting. Though I think it is unlikely that 2 wolves would make the same mistake, especially being the first to start it like Form, it's still possible. I don't know, I'm really iffy on this situation.

It's possible, but if it's true, I think it's coincidental.

So out of the four, in order of who I think is most likely a wolf: Lottie, Glirdy, Form and then Fea. Even though I feel good about all of them, so it's a tough situation.

I was actually thinking Form, but that's a gut thing, with no substantiation.

But yeah, I definitely won't be Simonizing Lottie or Form on purpose today.

That being said, I'm awake, I'm healthy (whatever yesterday was, I'm VERY glad it was short-lived), and I won't be back until I've showered and eaten. I'd say you could ask Mira or Ni how I am prior to shower and breakfast, but... well... They died. So you'll have to ask Formy if you really want to know what a grubby Fea without enough calories acts and thinks like.

Be back later.

[Pitchwife]

Back and reading:p *snuggles the phantom*
And while I'm at it: *snuggles wilwa and her cat, too*

I don't see Lottie as a likely wolf (although I think she's never been one yet, so I'm not sure what that would look like). If she was, calling her Night-posting mate(s?) to order might be considered a smart move public-relation-wise, but opening the Day's discussion with drawing suspicion to them just seems overdoing it a bit to me.
Good reasons for keeping her: she's thinking with her own head, and she can be awesome at wolf-spotting (as I can testify only too well). I'd have voted for her myself if I'd been able to, and may well do so toDay.

(x-ed with Fea)

[Nerwen]

nope nope:


Ok, gonna do this now thens:

++Glirdan

Cause I don't want the poor kid getting lynched Day 1 again.

++Fea

Cause all she's said was 1 word and I don't want a submarine type to get lynched just for lack of posts.

++Nog

Cause I feel good about him.



and then I later voted for Lottie aswell. You must have me mixed up with someone else.

Yes, it was Lottie herself. I don't know how I mixed you up, except that I was in a hurry as I had to go out. Sorry.

[Nerwen]

Form, Izzy, and I voted for Stick (I voted for her in Stick form, not Mira form, which might account for not noticing it).

Ah. That's what happens when you're skimming, like I was.

I find myself trusting Lottie, but I see it as very likely that each wolf voted to protect at least 1, if not 2, of their fellow wolves. So I think atleast 1 wolf needs to be amoung these 4.

This is indeed likely, though it does depend on how the voting was going– I mean, if it was clear no other wolves were in danger, she might not have felt the need to protect them. It's probably worth going back to check what the state of play was at that time.

So out of the four, in order of who I think is most likely a wolf: Lottie, Glirdy, Form and then Fea. Even though I feel good about all of them, so it's a tough situation.

To echo Fea and Pitch, I'd tend to put Form, and maybe Glirdan, ahead of Lottie... I don't have a firm reason for it, except she's been a lot more productive than they have. I agree Fea is the least likely– I just can't see her as being a Feawolf.

[wilwarin538]

*snuggles Pitch back* and my cat appreciates it
*snuggles phantom* cause I'm sure he won't mind, being a family man and all ;)


No worries Nerwen, Lottie and I both have dark bluish avvies, could have been that.


Yeah, I feel quite good about Lottie. Also about Fea and Form, and Glirdan. But I just can't get it out of my head that Mira would have protected at least 1 of her fellows. I mean I suppose it's possible she didn't, but each of the 4 wolves could have voted for one another and it may take a while to catch the pattern.

Anyway, this game works quite nicely for me because I always find myself trusting everyone and having a very hard time finding someone who looks bad. :rolleyes: At least the first few days.

So tired. I think I'm gonna go try to nap for a bit, and then I'll come back later. This post took me forever cause I keep spacing out and forgetting what I want to say. :rolleyes:

x'ed with Nerwen

[Nerwen]

Yeah, I feel quite good about Lottie. Also about Fea and Form, and Glirdan. But I just can't get it out of my head that Mira would have protected at least 1 of her fellows. I mean I suppose it's possible she didn't, but each of the 4 wolves could have voted for one another and it may take a while to catch the pattern.

As I said, it is quite likely she did. Also, now that I've checked, I see that only two people (Nogrod and I) had gained a third vote at the time Mira voted. So whoever her packmates are, she couldn't have felt secure about them all.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

'Twas brillig, and the slithy wolves
Did gyre and gimble in the Night;
All mimsy was the Huntingulve,
And the mome raths the fight.

"Beware the Mirawolf, everyone!
The jaws that bite, the claws that got us!
Beware the other wolves, and shun
The frumious Sally Goddess!"

Ni took her vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe she sought—
So rested she by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.

And as in uffish thought she stood,
The Wolf Pack, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!

One, two! One, two! and through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
But Ni was dead, and with her head
They went galumphing back.

"But thou hast slain the Mirawolf!
Come to the Mod, my beamish Ni!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!"
Sal chortled in her glee.

'Twas brillig, and the slithy wolves
Did gyre and gimble in the Night;
All mimsy was the Huntingulve,
And the mome raths the fight.

[Pitchwife]

At the time Mira voted (with lots of votes still to come), Glirdan and Lottie already had two votes each, Fea and Form only one, so if she was trying to save anybody, I'd guess it would rather be one of the latter two. Now this is rather gut-feelingish, but I'd say Fea would have seemed in less need of being saved, having made an impressive entrée into the discussion and not being suspected by anybody yet, so I'd rather lean towards Form (bet you haven't guessed that yet).
But while it's indeed possible that Mira used one of her votes for a packmate, it's far from certain. When I'm a wolf, I tend to favour letting natural selection do its work - i.e. letting whoever gets into danger fend for themselves (as Nerwen will remember from Legate's game, where this tactic served us quite well); so let's not count too much on the Wolves voting to save each other. We need to look at a lot of other people as well.

(x-ed with Lewis Carroll of the Peredhil:D)

EDIT: added some bolding.

[Inziladun]

But while it's indeed possible that Mira used one of her votes for a packmate, it's far from certain. When I'm a wolf, I tend to favour letting natural selection do its work - i.e. letting whoever gets into danger fend for themselves (as Nerwen will remember from Legate's game, where this tactic served us quite well); so let's not count too much on the Wolves voting to save each other. We need to look at a lot of other people as well.

While it would have been quite foolish for them all to try and boost one another, one or two of them could probably have done it with relative safety, especially while all four of their identities were still unknown. It's only now we've got a break by getting one of them that it becomes really dangerous, as the links can then be examined.
But you're right in that it wouldn't do to get too closely focused on one of two people.

PS-I'd forgotten about the Moddess Parody Challenge. But can anyone beat that from Fea? :eek:

[Glirdan]

I am back after a three hour morning rehearsal and have quickly read through everything since I've been gone and will comment on some things quickly.


I don't quite get where all this wave of trust in Nog comes from. As Nerwen just said concerning Form, it's not like our deceased innocents knew anything, they could have been just as mistaken as everybody else. Nog started out making some good points yesterDay

(Underlined my part)
That is my main reasoning for trusting Nog. He has been making rather valid points and opinions which are what we need to keep for this game. It is, however as you stated in your post, quite possible that he is a Wolf. It is entirely possible that he is manipulating his way to the forefront to gain people's trust. However, I don't think that Nog would be that obvious about it if he is a Wolf. Although, on the flip side of things, he could be doing it on purpose just for that reason and throw suspicion off of him. It is Nog we're talking about and anything is possible when it comes to him.


I agree! Sooo happy to have my bff back on here. And alive day 2. And I make the same mistake with than/then all the time, it may be a Canadian thing.

Happy to be back!! And yeah, I'm pretty sure it is a Canadian thing...I do it all the time. :rolleyes:

Okay, so I am going to quickly leave and find something to eat having not eaten anything all day, but I will be back soon.

[Pitchwife]

Preliminary list, to be updated and if necessary corrected:

Utterly trust
sally, because she's so open and forthcoming and could never hide a devious thought from us:rolleyes:

Trust
Eönwë
Lottie
wilwa

Feel rather positive about
Brinn (few posts, but those well-reasoned, I think)
Glirdan (supported - although with a bit of wavering - the Night-posting Wolf Theory, which I don't quite see him doing as Mira's packmate)
Fea
Izzy
(with a question-mark for the latter two, as they both voted for Mira; care to explain?)

Feel rather positive about, but am cautious of on general principles;)
Nerwen
Zil

Find annoying, but not sure whether to suspect
Nog

Suspect
Form
Rune
for being a pair of sneaky lurkers, and Form also for Mira-voting relations, q.v. above.

Would like to lynch
the phantom - Wait, where is he toDay?

Unfortunately, again considering the popularity contest aspect, there's probably bound to be at least two wolves in my trust/positive zone, but I'll postpone second-guessing myself till later.

[Nogrod]

I'm only reading now, but felt I wish to comment on this on the go...
However, I will say this- Yesterday there were quite a few people who didn't mention who they thought was suspicious and in this way maybe Nogrod had the right idea. It was just that I thought a fake vote was going too far.Why is it we have no idea whom most of the players suspect or whom they'd like us to think they suspect? I tried to press for some kind of deal that we'd require everyone to state their suspicions openly thus forcing the wolves to play our game and not only hide behind the curtain of general goodwill where everyone wishes to look agreeable.

If we don't pressure the wolves to suspect people openly they will just rub you the right way and we'll get them only with lucky shots (talking of which, way to go Nienna!).

And sorry Pitch, it was not a campaign against you but an openly voiced suspicion (I did actually suspect three others more or less as much as you - and it looks like one of them was indeed a wolf).

Another point from the quote up there. I suggested "fake votes" or bolded opinion (like I did in my own post then) only to make them stand out so that everyone could see them fex. in a last half an hour rush needing not to close-read every post again to find them. And I said that yesterDay already. Claming that I was trying to destroy the new game-concept before we had tried it, or that I was misfocusing our effort, is plain silly.

[Glirdan]

Okay, I am back and with a list of suspects and such.

Trust

Nog - For reasons I have stated many times earlier.
Pitch - Has made a lot of contributions with many good thoughts and ideas, definitely someone worth keeping around
Wilwa - Even though we always suspect each other, something about her just seems right and innocent.
Fea - What's not to trust? She came on late in the Day on Day 1 but did so with a bang with many good thoughts and ideas of her own.

Feel Inclined To Trust
Lottie - Has had many good posts of substance. The only thing that makes me a little leery is her Day 1 posting, but I am more than willing to let that slide as hers was a post telling everyone to shut it.
Nerwen - Also posted pre-Day, yet has made some great contributions to the game and I would hate to see her go just now.
Zil - Always has substance in his posts and brings up some rather interesting points himself.

Unsure
Brinn - She has been rather quiet thus far toDay and would like to hear more from her.
Izzy - I've only played in one game with her before and she was a Wolf then. Her playing style is similar to that of the last game, yet I do not want to make any judgements based on meta-reasoning.
Eönwë - Has been hiding in the shadows a lot and was also one of the pre-Day posters. But he has had posts that were well reasoned with good points of his own.
Rune - Has been far too quiet for my liking and not much to go on. Almost tempted to put him under the suspect category, yet would like to hear more before making any final decisions.

Suspect
Form - Pre-Day poster, vote of confience from Mira and just an unsettling feeling about him.

So as it stands, my four votes will probably go to Nog, Wilwa, Fea and Pitch, but this could all change by the time DL rolls around.

X'd With Noggy

[Pitchwife]

Why is it we have no idea whom most of the players suspect or whom they'd like us to think they suspect?
Read on, I think we're getting there.
If we don't pressure the wolves to suspect people openly they will just rub you the right way
True, and in this game more than in any other. Is that why you suspected Eönwë and me for rubbing you the wrong way?:rolleyes:
And sorry Pitch, it was not a campaign against you but an openly voiced suspicion
It's alllright, I've calmed down a bit now. And don't apologize before you actually know I'm innocent!;)

EDIT:fixed coding