T-I-G WW LXXIV: War of the Wolves

[wilwarin538]

I don't entirely like the fact that Wilwa seems like she is just going to skate to victory. She is not going to help either side, she is just going to vote for whomever she feels like.

You're wrong, I will help a side...eventually. I just don't know what side that's going to be yet, because it isn't clear yet which side has the advantage. I'm completely selfish, but that's the point of this role, I'm on my own side.

ToDay I'll likely just vote for the person who is clearly going to be lynched, that's probably the most neutral thing I can do. After toDay though, I don't know what'll happen. I'm just going with it...

I think anyone who got this role would be doing the same thing. Staying neutral, taking advantage of the fact that any side would be wasting a kill if they killed me, and waiting.


I get the distinct impression that the WereUnicorn has no desire to reveal. They're the one of the 4 wolves that really does not want to die. The other wolf team is probably even nervous about killing them, because it makes an innocent, and that sucks for them. So yeah, ideal situation for village, but not quite so much for wolvies.

But hey, you two innocents have a 4 in 5 chance of voting for a wolf. That's pretty sweet for you guys.

[Boromir88]

I get the distinct impression that the WereUnicorn has no desire to reveal. They're the one of the 4 wolves that really does not want to die. The other wolf team is probably even nervous about killing them, because it makes an innocent, and that sucks for them. So yeah, ideal situation for village, but not quite so much for wolvies.


Consider your choices again, taking the neutral path today could cause you to lose.

The fact of the matter is, since you're not a wolf, you're going to be expendable to both packs. It's true they might have bigger fish to fry, but if one of their own is in trouble they will lynch or kill you. You're going to be nothing more than a glorified cobbler in their eyes.

Where we can't do that, we literally can not lynch you. You may gain an advantage by siding with one of the packs, but there is no possible way to serve both. The pack you side with will use you until you are of no more use, if they have to kill you to win they're going to. And the pack that you don't side with, they aren't going to like you much either.

If you help us, it's true you might become wolf-meat, but you can rest assured you'll be on a side that won't betray you, for the fact that we NEED you to win, more than the wolves need you. And if you are wolf-meat at least you would leave the world knowing hapiness and love. :D

That's my please and best attempt, your choice now Wilwa.

With Nog greatfully finding 2 wolves, but destroying voting those 2 days, I haven't found much that stands out. TEW tried to clear Izzy's name based on Lommy's post, because of that, I don't think they're on the same team. Inzil then suspects TEW for trying to use Lommy's posts to clear Izzy. It would not surprise me if all three are wolves at this point.

Despite the odds, it's a rock and a hard place, because I can't decide whether TEW was genuinely helpful, or only trying to look helpful. I can't decide whether Inzil actually saw it as suspicious, or was trying to get attention turned on TEW for a lynch. And Izzy is the common link between the two.

I'll be here the rest of the day, so I can catch up on Pitch and Kit's posts, as both of them I've pretty much ignored/nothing has stood out so far.

[Pitchwife]

If the WereUnicorn would like to reveal, we could lynch them and just be done with it. As that would be perhaps the perfect scenario for toDay.
I get the distinct impression that the WereUnicorn has no desire to reveal. They're the one of the 4 wolves that really does not want to die.
You really think Izzy didn't know that? Of course the WU won't reveal. That's why it was a safe thing to say, with the benefit of making her look oh so very innocent, because obviously, a rival wolf wouldn't want any of the Unicorns to die (just yet).
And what was her point in dragging up the question of Lommy dreaming Nerwen again? If that has any bearing on the present situation, I don't see it.
Btw, talking of people who 'really don't want to die', that description seems to fit more than one person at the moment...

Boro gives me the impression that as long as wilwa helps him to lynch somebody, he doesn't care that much who it is. Does that sound innocent? Not really.

Among these people who have been posting in the last couple of hours, Kit looks like the only one who's still trying to think straight like I'd expect an innocent to rather than grasp for alliances or sow confusion. The only thing that worries me about her is the twisted reasoning for her Legate vote, but Nog's theory that she's the Aphid Seerwolf has obviously collapsed by now...

(x-ed with Boro- that's a little better...)

EDIT: pedantic bolding.

[Pitchwife]

Stupid me - while Kit can hardly be the Aphid Seer, she could of course be one of the remaining Ladybugs. As far as I could find, she didn't mention Lommy at all before she was outed and lynched; Lommy, on the other hand, placed her in the 'More good than bad' category... with Lommy's general vagueness, it's hard to tell whether she was protecting a packmate or buddying up to an innocent. But that way, Kit's twisted case against Legate suddenly makes sense.

[Pitchwife]

I think I know who the wolves are. I'm guessing Inzy, Pitchwife, Kitanna and Boromir.
Taking for granted that wilwa=AL, OK, but what makes you so sure about Izzy's innocence?
My problem is that, assuming wilwa to be what she claims, three of the four people I thought most probably innocent before (Boro, Izzy, Kit, TEWie) must be wolves, so I can't trust my previous judgement anymore. TEWie doesn't seem to suffer from any similar uncertainty, which I find quite strange unless he's got some inside knowledge about Izzy's role.

Now can someone please talk so I won't quadruple-post? Holding monologues gets boring...

[satansaloser2005]

*did a little dance (http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj279/cupcakeworld/Odds%20and%20Ends/dancingCupcake12.jpg)*

*made a little love (http://www.cake-decorating-corner.com/images/baby-in-a-blanket-cupcakes-28817.jpg)*

*got dead last Night (http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs39/f/2008/358/c/0/Half_Eaten_Chocolate_Cupcake_by_RacheyVonGrimm.jpg )*

*erm....got re-dead last Night (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ucrqZrn00TI/SsysQof5KwI/AAAAAAAADTY/uQz_-ufqhi4/s400/living-dead-cupcake.jpg)*


Apparently I'm supposed to entertain you? *shrugs* Dunno. It seems you're doing quite well amongst yourselves.

Also. Wilwa? I love you (http://joandra.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/space-cupcake.jpg). (And muffins don't have frosting. Nyah.)


ETA: Also, I'm too lazy to do anything else, so blah. Sorry, Lottie dear. I have other havoc to wreak. :Merisu:

[wilwarin538]

Consider your choices again, taking the neutral path today could cause you to lose.

The fact of the matter is, since you're not a wolf, you're going to be expendable to both packs. It's true they might have bigger fish to fry, but if one of their own is in trouble they will lynch or kill you. You're going to be nothing more than a glorified cobbler in their eyes.

Where we can't do that, we literally can not lynch you. You may gain an advantage by siding with one of the packs, but there is no possible way to serve both. The pack you side with will use you until you are of no more use, if they have to kill you to win they're going to. And the pack that you don't side with, they aren't going to like you much either.

If you help us, it's true you might become wolf-meat, but you can rest assured you'll be on a side that won't betray you, for the fact that we NEED you to win, more than the wolves need you. And if you are wolf-meat at least you would leave the world knowing hapiness and love. :D

That's my please and best attempt, your choice now Wilwa.


I think I need to clarify something:

I am not on a side.
I will never be on a side.
I will not "choose" a side.
I don't care who wins.
I just need to live.

So all of these speeches you're giving me to try to get me "on your side", are pointless. Cause I'm on my own, and will continue to be on my own. Though, I'll be honest, the villagers can't kill me, that would be beyond dumb; the wolves on the other hand, it would just be mostly dumb, so I'm terrified of them right now. Take from that what you will.

But thanks for all the attention Boro, it is making me feel quite loved. :Merisu::p

x'ed with the homewrecker :P

[wilwarin538]

Sally:

Muffins are breakfast foods.
Breakfast = most important meal of the day.
Muffin = more important.

Cupcakes have sugar.
Sugar rots your teeth.
Cupcake = bad.

Give Phantom and Duck a *snuggle* for me.

[Kitanna]

I just need to live.
Doesn't that usually herald a swift and painful death by night? Or so experience would have me believe. :rolleyes:

I get the distinct impression that the WereUnicorn has no desire to reveal. They're the one of the 4 wolves that really does not want to die. The other wolf team is probably even nervous about killing them, because it makes an innocent, and that sucks for them. So yeah, ideal situation for village, but not quite so much for wolvies.

I have a question about the Unicorns. They die and an innocent comes back in their place, correct? Well then is it really in the villages best interest to lynch one either? An innocent comes back and in the case of the wereunicorn a wolf is knocked out too, but then we have a known innocent that could potentially be only useful for a day before they become a nighttime kill. Two days if the ranger survives and protects them, but as a known innocent they become a likely target at night. So is it really in anyone's best interest to kill the unicorns? Maybe I've misunderstood how this role works, but it seems like it'll only benefit the village for a short while before we get thrown into confusion again over roles.

The fact of the matter is, since you're not a wolf, you're going to be expendable to both packs.
Is that a threat to get Wilwa on your side, Boro?

[wilwarin538]

Yeah, it'll only benefit for a while, but like if you guys for example are at 3 innocents, 2 wolves. Then the innocent unicorn dies you are at the same, but the new innocent will probably die soon, but atleast you're no further behind. If the wereunicorn dies then you're at 4 innocents 1 wolf. Even though that innocent will die soon, it's still giving you an advantage for a while.

Doesn't that usually herald a swift and painful death by night? Or so experience would have me believe

Yes, it probably will. I just hope that the wolves realise that they have 3 other people out there that are more of a threat to them, and that I am a *potential* ally. So hopefully that's enough for them to choose to keep me around.

[Loslote]

*is not really here yet*

Nice, not-explodie snuggles for anyone who posts a vote count close to dl. :Merisu:

*snuggles Wilwuffin and Sally for being amusing*

[Loslote]

Oh, and RE: Is Uni helpful? ... you guys are missing one important question. Think about who might be Revived, considering that neither of the Lovers can. :Merisu:

[Kitanna]

Yeah, it'll only benefit for a while, but like if you guys for example are at 3 innocents, 2 wolves. Then the innocent unicorn dies you are at the same, but the new innocent will probably die soon, but atleast you're no further behind. If the wereunicorn dies then you're at 4 innocents 1 wolf. Even though that innocent will die soon, it's still giving you an advantage for a while.

I suppose. I guess I just find the whole idea silly and baffling. *shrug* I'll just hide and pretend the unicorns don't exists and we just have wolf and innocent right now.

[wilwarin538]

Oh, and RE: Is Uni helpful? ... you guys are missing one important question. Think about who might be Revived, considering that neither of the Lovers can. :Merisu:

Yeh. She has a point. Noggykins had another dream. But by the time either Unicorn would die (earliest today), then Nog would come back tomorrow, and his dream could be irrelevant by then (person could already be deaded).

*snuggles Lottie*

[Pitchwife]

One thing that speaks against Izzy in my eyes is Legate's vote for her, at a point where he'd been outed by Nog and knew he was pretty much dead meat. Voting for a rival wolf or an innocent at this time would have been rather futile, as it was quite certain that nobody else would vote her, but as a move to make a packmate look better after his death, it would make sense.

I have a question about the Unicorns. They die and an innocent comes back in their place, correct? Well then is it really in the villages best interest to lynch one either? An innocent comes back and in the case of the wereunicorn a wolf is knocked out too, but then we have a known innocent that could potentially be only useful for a day before they become a nighttime kill. Two days if the ranger survives and protects them, but as a known innocent they become a likely target at night. So is it really in anyone's best interest to kill the unicorns? Maybe I've misunderstood how this role works, but it seems like it'll only benefit the village for a short while before we get thrown into confusion again over roles.
I've been thinking about that too. The advantage for the village from the death of the innocent unicorn wouldn't be so big (except if Nog were revived to reveal his last dream), but lynching the WereUnicorn would get rid of a wolf + get one known innocent back, evening out the numbers.
It would of course make life easier for the Ranger to have a known fellow innocent instead of an unknown one.
And consider this: right now, there's seven of us; we'll lynch one person toDay, and with Nog removed for now, a double Night-kill has become much more likely.
If none of the Unicorns dies toNight, there'll be four left toMorrow. What makes you think this game will continue for more than two Days?

x-ed with 2 wilwas, 2 Lotties & 1 Kit

[Inziladun]

That is an intriguing possibilty, that the Unicorn might be killed in the hopes that Nog could be returned with a dream to share. If that happened, what Wilwa said might indeed be the case: that his dream might be dead. However, I think it would be worth that risk. What I noticed though, was that our moddess did not say anyone in particular would definitely be brought back, but that we ought to consider who might be.

x/d with Pitch

[Kitanna]

What makes you think this game will continue for more than two Days?
[/B]
If the wolves go after the same kill it could potentially happen. I wasn't really thinking in terms of how many people we have left. Like i said, the role just confuses me. But I think my questions have been answered now.

So I realize I haven't really been able to keep up so well in this game. I usually have enough time to go over specific posts rather than all of them. It doesn't really provide the best basis for a vote, but a Kit has to work. :rolleyes: That said, I was really only able to look at today's post and a few from yesterday.

++ Boro

He seemed level headed and helpful enough to start with. I liked that he didn't jump immediately into accepting Nogrod's seer claim and that he felt strongly enough to continue to defend it. Today, however, his pleas with Wilwa look none to right. His first one looked like he was trying to sweet talk her.

But then there's this:
The fact of the matter is, since you're not a wolf, you're going to be expendable to both packs. It's true they might have bigger fish to fry, but if one of their own is in trouble they will lynch or kill you. You're going to be nothing more than a glorified cobbler in their eyes.
Looks like he's saying "I can end you with one PM to our moddess tonight. Ally yourself with me toDay."

These posts look too far out of place for Boro and they don't look like the work of an innocent villager to me.

[Kitanna]

However, I think it would be worth that risk. What I noticed though, was that our moddess did not say anyone in particular would definitely be brought back, but that we ought to consider who might be.

Our hunter could be brought too or Morsul (though he dropped out on his own accord, so probably not.) We have no guarantee it'd be Nogrod. So would we want the risk?

edit: Best of luck. I won't return until day's over.

[Pitchwife]

What I noticed though, was that our moddess did not say anyone in particular would definitely be brought back, but that we ought to consider who might be.
Since the Lovers can't be revived, it would be either Nog or Nerwen, so it's a 50/50 chance to get that last Seer dream.
Nerwen wouldn't be able to tell us anything new (we know she hunted sally), but I certainly wouldn't mind having her back as a known innocent. So yes, it would be worth the risk.
(Did you have to say something so sensible when I was feeling pretty sure you're a wolf? Not making my life any easier...:rolleyes:)

EDIT: x-ed with Kit x2

[Isabellkya]

And what was her point in dragging up the question of Lommy dreaming Nerwen again?

In response to your question here, I will refer back and quote something I said in the post which you are responding to.

Thoughts/comments on yesterDays posts.


I was making comments and thoughts regarding the posts of yesterDay; just was doing it toDay. As I was at work all day yesterDay, then unexpectedly had to do a lot of driving. Which lent me no time to catch up on what happened and what was said yesterDay.

Ehm yes, my sentiments about the WereUnicorn was wishful thinking - I thought it was quite clear... that I did not expect the WereUnicorn to actually reveal....


If Wilwa is not going to help us, then why should we spare her? Her win depends on her survivial. Which entails that we are helping her, by not voting for her - or in the wolves' case, not killing her at Night. So why exactly should we help you, Wilwa?

Regardless if the Unicorned is only perhaps helpful for a short amount of time - that is still helpful. I think you may either just A)honestly don't understand it, or are purposefully misunderstanding it. If there WereUnicorn perishes, a wolf is knocked down - to three, and the innocents' numbers increase by one. I would say at this point in time - that is a huge help, regardless of the length they are around.

[The Elf-warrior]

Inzy, your response to my outburst feels genuine to me. With my luck (and skill level) in playing werewolf you may very well be innocent. :rolleyes: I think you have a good point about Kitanna and her vote for Legate. However, if I wanted to be stubborn, I could say it was a gamble to avoid suspicion in the future. But I seriously doubt that's the case. Her vote had slipped my mind. There goes my grand unified werewolf theorem. I thought Izzy was innocent because she hadn't rung any alarm bells in me, Nogrod had a feeling she was innocent, my suspicion of you, and Lommy's post. That would still be my guess. Look in my post after my vote for the Legate quotes I was referring to. I'm gonna leave now and not come back toDAY.

[satansaloser2005]

Boro wishes to warn you all about the dangers of poor internet connection.

He'll be back when he can. :)

[wilwarin538]

If Wilwa is not going to help us, then why should we spare her? Her win depends on her survivial. Which entails that we are helping her, by not voting for her - or in the wolves' case, not killing her at Night. So why exactly should we help you, Wilwa?


In the villager's case: you can't afford to waste a lynch on me, there are 4 wolves around and there are only 2 of you. So I'm not worried.

In the wolve's case: they have to get rid of the other pack before they can win, and there's a Ranger around that is a bigger threat to them. Yeah, they could kill me, but I'm certainly not their biggest priority right now, and I'm also a *potential* ally for them. So I'm slightly worried there, but not too too worried at this point.

Basically: I'm not asking for your help.

[Pitchwife]

Well, I can't hang around here all night with nobody talking...

wilwa - enjoying herself far too much. "Next time there are Lovers, lynch them all"... Only it would be really stupid, so leave her alone.
Boro - don't at all like how he tried to talk wilwa into an alliance, it reminds me too much of a certain Nogwolf's show of pleading with the Lovers in Mira's game... all in the best interest of the village, of course:rolleyes:
Izzy - what bothers me most is that safe 'throwaway' vote from Legwolf when his death was certain: as I've said above, possibly trying to provide cover for his packmate.
Kit - if she's a wolf, she's fooled me well up to toDay, but reconsidering her attack on Legwolf yesterDay, she could really be a packmate of Lommy's.
TEW and Zil - hard to say. Either's responses to the other's attacks sound genuine. One has to be a wolf, and I'm still more inclined to think it's Zil, but he's beginning to look better toDay...

Point in any direction and likely hit a wolf? Sure, Izzy, but there's that 1 in 5 possibility of hitting the only other innocent...:(

It's ninety minutes to DL, right? Somebody say something, please. (And I don't mean you, sally!)

[satansaloser2005]

Half an hour, actually. Just so's you know.

(And nyah to you too.)

[Loslote]

It's ninety minutes to DL, right? Somebody say something, please. (And I don't mean you, sally!)

Um...no. More like thirteen...

Why are there so few votes??? :eek:

And do *I* count as somebody? :Merisu:

EDIT: I fail at counting. Sally's much closer than I am...

[satansaloser2005]

Um...no. More like thirteen...

Why are there so few votes??? :eek:

And do *I* count as somebody? :Merisu:

EDIT: I fail at counting. Sally's much closer than I am...

I still love you, dear, even if no one else does. ^_^

[Loslote]

"You know Galileo's theory of dropping stuffs?" Zil asked.

"Yeah," Kit said. "What about it?"

"I've never understood it," Zil said. "Can we try it out?"

"Sure," Izzy said. I have a bowling ball and a ping-pong ball here; let's drop them off this cliff."

"But what about - hey look! A butterfly!" Wilwa said, laughing at the irony of Wilwa being distracted by a butterfly.

"And...drop!" Izzy said.

"Ow!" Boro said, as both the bowling and ping-pong balls fell on his head. "Izzy, what did you do??"

"Sorry?" she said. "Hey! You're getting furry!"

"What?" Boro yelped. "Oh, man! I must be dying. Well, then, I'll just kill you, too!"

"Eep!" Izzy said, and died.

"Hey, I'm not dead yet," Boro said.

So Elfie pushed him back off the cliff, just to be sure.

"Okay," he said. "Now I'm dead."

"Science is dangerous," Pitchie said.

"But I get it now," Zil said.

[Boromir88]

Phew, that was close...nasty evils of Time Warner. First cable box goes capoot, now internet's sketchy.

I am quite nervous about Kitanna's vote...I'm not nervous out of revenge, I just don't get it. I can see how in an round-about way being level-headed and calm could = wolvish, but she's reading my offer to wilwa in a way that's just not there. How was anything I said "Be on my team or I kill you?" I admitted to the exact opposite, we literally can't lynch her.

Wilwa's made her decision, at indecision, so be it. I sad we needed her, but if she's going to dangle her position of power in front of our faces, I'm going to take some dignity back. She's going to need us if she wants to win.

So yep, not liking that vote and I'm really not likely no one has come in to say "Got a wolf for you, vote ______ (insert one of the remaining names)"

[Boromir88]

Umm does that mean it's DL then?

[satansaloser2005]

YOU'RE BACK! *hugs Boro* Heh we missed you! ;)

[Inziladun]

I apologise for being such a non-entity toDay. I left work only 2 hours ago, and now I'm working an extra job, using an elderly laptop. :

I wanted to look at all the ones who'd been among the quiet ones, meaning Boro, Izzy, and Kitanna. All three appear to have been more active toDay though. But anyway...

Wilwa does make a point we'd be helping the second wolfpack by getting rid of the first since Pack A can't win until Pack B is gone. However, I'll have to go with the sentiment that "a wolf is a wolf" at this point. We have to lynch one before we can put him/her into a team. Still, I don't see this as a real sign against Wilwa.

I refreshed my page and I could have sworn there was more to this quote. Something about how it looked like Wilwa was advising us not to lynch wolves, but it seems to have disappeared. *stares suspiciously at Nerwen*

First post. Maybe a bit wishy-washy. Says Wilwa has a point, but she doesn't agree with her. Then adds Wilwa shouldn't be suspected for her statement about helping one pack get rid of the other.
Also starts what became a rather large point of discussion that Day, Nerwen's 'slip' about the post-edit she made. Of course, we now know Nerwen was innocent.

I have forty minutes to read the thread, make my decision, and vote. Ugh, work days.

My first thought (and I should have mentioned it earlier) goes make to what Nogrod said in regards to Wilwa. After he highlighted her little bit about "helping" one team by destroying the other, I found it interesting both Nerwen and Inziladun commented on it. On Inziladun's part it was "hey yeah, this is interesting" but no further comment on it. Nerwen said something more along the lines that would Wolf-Wilwa be so careless in her speech?

Nerwen asks for her editing to not be blown out of proportion. Nogrod says this on the subject:

I agree with him on the fact she chose not to make her change public. However, I think innocents are just as conscious to what is being posted because they're as likely as a wolf to be lynched for mistyping or misconstruing their point. No one wants to be killed regardless of side and I don't follow Nogrod's reasoning completely on Nerwen as suspicious because what player isn't conscious of mistakes they make?

Defends Nerwen.

I hate that I have to do it this way, knowing full well the possible repercussions of such an early vote, but I need to get back to work.

Here's the only person that has popped out to me more than once at this point.

++Inziladun

Nogrod pointed out Wilwa's post about "helping" one wolf team by eliminating the other. Inziladun agrees. Nogrod points out Nerwen's editing and how she didn't make it public. Again Inziladun agrees, but doesn't really cast suspicion on Wilwa or Nerwen.

Before Norgrod says anything about Nerwen Inziladun says:
After Norgrod posts, he says:

Granted he never said he thought Nerwen was innocent or anything, but he changes his tune from her edit was just a mistake to she's suspicious because of it and all in light of someone else's comment.

I wish I could stay longer and didn't have to vote so hastily, but such as life I suppose.

A vote for me, based upon what I said about Nerwen. She says I flip-flopped, but herself admitted I never said Nerwen was innocent because of her mistake. Someone else said that though.....

I..er...wow. That's...wow. Such the bloodbath last night.


If you look at the rest of that list Izzy is the only one she had felt good about. And she admits she has no real reason. It's a stretch that Lommy dreamt Izzy and revealed it in her first post, but maybe it's something to take into account. There is definitely something strange with Lommy's reasons for Izzy in that first post.

But in her third post she has this to say:

Lommy seems to give no reasons for trusting any of these people. In fact she's all over the place. I do believe she probably listed her dream, but by post three she's listed five people who she is inclined to believe are innocent and she only had one dream. I doubt she dreamt of Nogrod or she'd have tried very hard to have him lynched. Perhaps Nerwen was her dream? That would explain why at least Lommy's pack went after her in the night. However, by Lommy's post she's moved Nerwen to the enigma category. Me thinks my tired brain is looking for a hint in Lommy's posts that simply isn't there.

I will return after some sleep to make sense of Lommy's posts and my thoughts on them.

Spends time trying to puzzle out Lommy's dream. Maybe that wasn't a waste of time, like I thought at the time, but I didn't get anything from thinking on it.


I went back to read all the posts AFTER Nogrod pegs Lommy as a wolf in the hopes maybe one of her packmates slipped up. I ignored posts by Shasta, Sally, Nerwen, and Morsul.

Wilwa: Believes him to be the seer, seeing that it makes sense for an innocent seer to reveal as he did rather than run the risk of being killed in the night. In a later post she defends Nogrod's reveal from Sally and Boro.

Legate: Placed Nogrod in his yellow area, but he also admitted he didn't have the time to recheck the thread before turning in for the night. He placed Lommy in his green section. At the end of his post he added an edit about having seen what Nogrod revealed.

Boro: Asks if a wolf seer would reveal so soon. Puts forth several possibilities to other avenues. (such as wolf seer trying to look good, non-wolf seer trying to benefit his pack, I'm guessing he means lead the village away from the real wolf seer.) In a later post explains why he didn't want to jump on board and trust Nogrod without considering other options.

Izzy: Seems to agree with Wilwa and trusts Nogrod. Feels Legate is buttering Nog up.

Zil: Trusts Nogrod it looks like, but finds it unusual that he revealed when he was in no danger.

Pitch: Believes Nogrod to be a seer because no one would be foolish enough to lead us to lynch an innocent.

TEW: Knows it's a seer claim, nothing else really said.

Conclusions:
Wilwa: At first I was wary because she so readily agreed with Nogrod. But as I read on in her posts after that initial one she made good points as to why an innocent Nogrod would reveal so soon. Her continued defense of his reveal speaks more innocent to me than wolfish.

Boro: I like that Boro considered other options as to Nogrod being a wolf revealing to look good. I'm inclined to trust for this because he continued to defend this position that he didn't want to enthusiastically jump into believing Nogrod without giving it some thought. The fact that Wilwa and Boro both felt strongly enough in one direction or the other that they kept defending their points rather than just agreeing and voting makes me think more innocent at this point.

Legate: Didn't have time to really react in full to the reveal, but his brief reaction was suspect to me. He immediately glomped onto Nogrod it looked like and had a sort of "oh darn I was wrong about you and Lommy" all along.

TEW, Zil, Pitch, and Izzy: All are hard to read not giving much away after Nogrod's reveal. For the most part all fall into "Nogrod is telling the truth because why would he lie so early?" category. Legate falls into this too, but his "you were right, I was wrong" edit in his vote post seemed forced.

Unfortunately I can't come home from work on my lunch break to vote. There hasn't been a whole lot of activity today either and I was in a time crunch so I could only focus on a small number of posts. But here's my vote.

++ Legate

Of all those that reacted after the reveal of Nogrod his seemed the most forced. It looked as though he was trying to pull himself closer to Nogrod and distant himself from Lommy. Possible packmates?

Best of luck for the rest of the day.

Votes Legate, before Nog gave his dream. I don't think it's likely she's an Aphid, for that reason. Then again, it's not impossible that was a furry plan.

You're missing a name there. What about Boro?

And we only have Wilwa's word that she's completely innocent of wolvery. Though it'd be very cunning or possibly very stupid for her to claim otherwise given the odds at this point.

Brings up we only have Wilwa to say she's the Anti-Lover. True, but as she says, unlikely to be a scheme of an evil Wilwa.

"Help the 'village' Wilwa. *wink wink*"

Though his little plea does seem..shifty, Boro has a point. Wilwa is in a very uniqu]e position. She can choose to help the wolf teams and ally herself with those she feels are part of one team or another or she can help the village. The problem is we'd never know the path she took until it was potentially too late, but killing her isn't a good idea either. You, Wilwa, are going to be the slippery wild card.

Starts casting some suspicion Boro's way. Comments on Wilwa's freedom to pick her side.


I'm been having a look at our odds.

Me
Pitchie
Zil
Elfie
Izzy
Boro
Wilwa

Four of our seven our wolves and Wilwa is a wild card so we really only have two innocents, our unicorn and ranger. But if I understand correctly if the unicorn dies an innocent comes back to life, so that's helpful, but I'd rather not have the unicorn killed just to return a known innocent who then becomes an easy target at night. And what of our ranger? He/she is in a tight spot because revealing in case of danger signs his/her death warrant at night. And we still have a seer wolf for Legate's team, which means if his/her dreams were chosen wisely that team has an edge over the rest of us.

So who are the four we've got lurking about? I need to get to work. I will come home on my lunch break to comment some more and vote.

All right, thinks a dead Unicorn would be helpful because a known innocent would replace xem, but doesn't want that to happen, because the Revived would then be a 'target'. I don't understand why she talks of the Ranger revealing, Of course xe shouldn't!

Doesn't that usually herald a swift and painful death by night? Or so experience would have me believe. :rolleyes:

I have a question about the Unicorns. They die and an innocent comes back in their place, correct? Well then is it really in the villages best interest to lynch one either? An innocent comes back and in the case of the wereunicorn a wolf is knocked out too, but then we have a known innocent that could potentially be only useful for a day before they become a nighttime kill. Two days if the ranger survives and protects them, but as a known innocent they become a likely target at night. So is it really in anyone's best interest to kill the unicorns? Maybe I've misunderstood how this role works, but it seems like it'll only benefit the village for a short while before we get thrown into confusion again over roles.


Is that a threat to get Wilwa on your side, Boro?

Says again the Unicorns shouldn't be killed because they ordos that replace them will just be killed at Night. I don't get that argument at all. More innocents=more work for the wolves. How is that bad? And the Were must be killed for a vilage win.

I suppose. I guess I just find the whole idea silly and baffling. *shrug* I'll just hide and pretend the unicorns don't exists and we just have wolf and innocent right now.

If the wolves go after the same kill it could potentially happen. I wasn't really thinking in terms of how many people we have left. Like i said, the role just confuses me. But I think my questions have been answered now.

So I realize I haven't really been able to keep up so well in this game. I usually have enough time to go over specific posts rather than all of them. It doesn't really provide the best basis for a vote, but a Kit has to work. :rolleyes: That said, I was really only able to look at today's post and a few from yesterday.

++ Boro

He seemed level headed and helpful enough to start with. I liked that he didn't jump immediately into accepting Nogrod's seer claim and that he felt strongly enough to continue to defend it. Today, however, his pleas with Wilwa look none to right. His first one looked like he was trying to sweet talk her.

But then there's this:

Looks like he's saying "I can end you with one PM to our moddess tonight. Ally yourself with me toDay."

These posts look too far out of place for Boro and they don't look like the work of an innocent villager to me.

Our hunter could be brought too or Morsul (though he dropped out on his own accord, so probably not.) We have no guarantee it'd be Nogrod. So would we want the risk?

edit: Best of luck. I won't return until day's over.

And a vote for Boro. Now, I'm not comfortable with Boro either, but it all seems to have come out of left field about him. Hmm.

[Pitchwife]

Oops - thanks for the correction.

++Kit

EDIT: x-ed with Zil

[Isabellkya]

Crap, I forgot about the fifteen minute thing, was stuck in traffic.

So.. two minutes or so left?

X'd with Pitch and Dun.

[satansaloser2005]

DL in ~15 minutes, dears. :)

[satansaloser2005]

Crap, I forgot about the fifteen minute thing, was stuck in traffic.

So.. two minutes or so left?

X'd with Pitch and Dun.



DL is back to normal. :)

[Inziladun]

I forgot about the DL shift too. That last post took forever to write, and this lousy computer logged me off before I could send it.

Bloody hell.

++Kitanna

I don't know what Boro is, but I don't have time to do anything else toDay. The odds are with us getting a wolf, though.

x/d with Sally. Gah! :rolleyes:

[wilwarin538]

She's going to need us if she wants to win.

If by 'us' you mean that you're a wolf, yes. If by 'us' you mean that you're an innocent, no. I can win without the village ya know, and your threats are just annoying me a bit, especially if you really are an innocent.

[Isabellkya]

Why exactly are you voting for Kitanna, Pitch?

[Boromir88]

If by 'us' you mean that you're a wolf, yes. If by 'us' you mean that you're an innocent, no. I can win without the village ya know, and your threats are just annoying me a bit, especially if you really are an innocent.

You know I love you, but if you think I'm going to like someone dragging us around for amusement I'm not going to like it much. ;)

With that said...

++Izzy

Don't have much of a good reason more of a crap shoot with good odds

Edit: highlighting vote

[Pitchwife]

Izzy - what I said in my last list, and before, + a bit of wild guessing, + running out of time.

[satansaloser2005]

*cough* highlight *cough*


Three minutes. ^_^

[Isabellkya]

++Boromir

Mostly because there is less than two minutes left, and I am unsure about Kitanna.. too many wolves.

[wilwarin538]

You know I love you, but if you think I'm going to like someone dragging us around for amusement I'm not going to like it much. ;)


Dragging? That's a bit harsh. Maybe pulling would be a better word. ;)

My vote then:

++Boro

Sorry love.

[Boromir88]

Mostly because there is less than two minutes left, and I am unsure about Kitanna.. too many wolves.

So you're the other wolf seer! Dah da dum

[satansaloser2005]

DL!

Gimme a tick to double check, k? K.

[satansaloser2005]

Boro is dead. He was team Aphid's hunter.

With him went Izzy. She was....the innocent ranger.

Dun dun dun!

[satansaloser2005]

Kit is dead. The last thing she saw? Her evil plans for Team Aphid being burned. *cackles*


To make that perfectly clear....


The Living
Pitch
Dun
Wilwa
Elf-Warrior


The Dead
Kit: Seer!wolf, Team Aphid
Everyone else


ETA: Pitch was saved by the remaining ranger.




Erm....that pretty much means the game's over, actually. *shifty eyes* As far as I know anyway. I won't reveal everything just in case Lottie's got a trick up her sleeve, but that means Team Aphid is kaput.

[Loslote]

"I like being evil," Pitchie said.

"Me too," Zil said.

"Wanna kill Kit?"

"Sure!"

"No!" Kit said. "I kill Pitchie instead!"

"Nah," Zil said. "I like Pitchie."

"Dang," Kit said. "Okay then, I die."

"Yay," Pitchie said.

"Now what?" Zil asked.

"Let's go kill the rest," Pitchie said.

"Sure! Yo, Elfie!"

"Yeah?"

"We're killing you!"

"Oh. So, moddess, do I get my unicorn revival?"

"No," Lottie said, for some reason reappearing in the scene. "Too late."

"Darn," Elfie said, and died.

"Now Wilwa!" Zil said.

"No, wait!" Wilwa said. "I'm the anti-lover. I'm not against your victory!"

"Oh, fine," Pitchie said. "You can live, I guess."

"Oh, yay," Wilwa said.

~~~

Team Ladybug (Pitchie and Zil) win.
Antilover (Wilwa) wins.
Village loses.
Lovers lose.

[wilwarin538]

Oh, yay.


Mwahaha. :cool:


Thanks Lottie, awesome game! :D

Good job everyone! Especially Pitch and Zil, congrats on the win! ;)

[Pitchwife]

The Quest is achieved, and now all is over. I am glad you're here with me. Here at the end of all things, Zil.

Or in other words, Gimme five!:D

Congratulations to you as well, wilwa!

Now back to bed, more tomorrow.

[Inziladun]

Excellent! The Ladybugs prove that having a less than intimidating name need not be a detriment. :D

First off, thanks for modding, Lottie! It was an interesting concept, with a good variety of roles.

This was quite a different game with the second wolfpack and the Unicorns. Add in the Lovers and the AL and there was a lot on our plate.

We caught some lucky breaks which proved decisive. The first was the Night 2 kill of Nerwen, leading to the deaths of Sally and Shasta. We had no idea Nerwen was the Hunter; she was just someone else who we thought should be gotten rid of as a proactive measure, if we couldn't get Nog. Obviously, we weren't the only ones thinking along those lines.

Speaking of Nog, our LommySeer!wolf had dreamed of him the first Night and was able to tell us before Day 1 that he was the good Seer. We had decided to leave him for the Night, and not risk trying to lynch him. But then he had to ruin our plan with a reveal. :rolleyes: And he was right in that we couldn't bring ourselves to trust the Aphids to kill him on Night 3, leading to both packs getting him. It was helpful that Nog produced Legate on Day 2, certainly, instead of one of us. I was very glad to see Nog go, as I was convinced he'd be pushing hard for my lynch the next Day, if he hadn't come up with another wolf.

We also got lucky with the Day 3 lynch of Boro, who was kind enough to take out Izzy the Ranger. To that point, we'd been thinking Izzy was probably an Aphid, and Kit the likely Ranger.

I thought TEW did an outstanding job, in the first game I'd played with him. I'll try to post some our PMs with my packmates' permission. In one of them, I note that TEW on Day 3 correctly identified all four of the remaining wolves! He certainly went after me.

And good game Aphids! A most formidable pack. You had some bad luck, to be sure. First, you lost Legate to a Seer dream, then Boro the next Day. His lynch really came out of the blue for me, but I was quite happy with the result. We identified Kit on the last Night through process of elimination. Luckily, I had protected myself the previous Night, leaving me able to save Pitch Night 4.

Wilwa wins as the scorned Anti-Lover. Thanks for voting Boro and not me!

Last, but not least. Well done, packmates! I'm sorry you had to go so soon, Lommy. I found it exasperating (but not surprising) that Nog had to dream of you the first Night. Then again, you returned the favour. We just couldn't act against him the way he did to you.
Pitch was tremendous. "Mr. Agreeable", indeed. He helped cheer me up Night 3, as I agonised over what awaited me the next Day if Nog was still around. And our discussions in the Night were quite enlightening.

LADYBUGS!! :cool:

[The Elf-warrior]

Congratulations to Team Ladybug and Team Anti-lover. I'm glad someone thought I played well.

[Nerwen]

I'm still kicking myself. The Night I died, I had a shortlist of people to hunt: Boro, Kit, Pitch, Legate... and Sally.

*kick**kick**kick*:mad:

Anyway, congratulations, Wilwa and Team Ladybug!

Excellent! The Ladybugs prove that having a less than intimidating name need not be a detriment.

Hey, it's a seriously intimidating name if you happen to be an aphid. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axEXO0D7XXk&feature=related)

See? Prophetic names, they were.:cool:

[satansaloser2005]

Don't feel bad, dear. I was laying such thick lover hints so that I could come out the next Day or so as the anti-lover. Then I was going to get Wilwa killed and offer myself to the highest bidder, hanging back in the shadows until I'd decided who I wanted to truly align myself with. The odds wouldn't have been good for the village. ;)

Also, when I died I was talking to Lottie and I completely pegged everyone's gifts and roles except like one person. I was quite pleased with myself, 'cause (as usual) I was going all on gut and had little evidence for what I thought. ^_^


Oh, and whoever left the anonymous neg rep for doing the moddess' bidding (though I doubt it was anyone in the game, because you're all lovely people and far too kind and intelligent to do that) pfffft on you. I follow directions from Her Highness regardless of chicken liver repping. Bwahahahaha, mine is an evil laugh, etc. (Also, thanks to Lottie herself of course for letting me/telling me to have fun post-mortem. I did in fact enjoy myself, even if I didn't do a whole lot of consequence in the game.) :)

[Isabellkya]

Congrats all.

I kind of suspected the innocents would lose, seems to happen every time I am the Ranger.. Eeeek.

Haha. I had thought about forgoing the protection on Nog Night 2, but whenever I gamble, the opposite tends to happen. So, I figured protecting him was better than losing him. And just envisioned the Princess Bride in my head.

I think that is the first time I've ever been hunted.

[satansaloser2005]

Oh, and I nearly forgot.


*snuggles everyone, nibbles on Wilwa* :Merisu:

[Loslote]

First of all, Thank you to everyone who played. *snuggles you guys*

Secondly, thank you to my wonderful Ladybug pack for making me laugh with every pm. First Lommy and Nog dream each other (which is still funny), then:

Yours truly,
Pack Ladybug (Pitch & Zil)

And then their titles kept including Ladybug Pack....Legate also did this:

(said the aphid... whatever)


Also, when I died I was talking to Lottie and I completely pegged everyone's gifts and roles except like one person. I was quite pleased with myself, 'cause (as usual) I was going all on gut and had little evidence for what I thought. ^_^


Oh, and whoever left the anonymous neg rep for doing the moddess' bidding (though I doubt it was anyone in the game, because you're all lovely people and far too kind and intelligent to do that) pfffft on you. I follow directions from Her Highness regardless of chicken liver repping. Bwahahahaha, mine is an evil laugh, etc. (Also, thanks to Lottie herself of course for letting me/telling me to have fun post-mortem. I did in fact enjoy myself, even if I didn't do a whole lot of consequence in the game.) :)

You couldn't peg Zil or Legate, mostly 'cause I'd been confusing about Legate earlier.

Also...yeah. If you didn't notice, Sally became "Official Botherer of Living" after that neg-rep...quite vexing, really, if I'd wanted her to be quiet I would have told her and she would have respected my wishes. :rolleyes:

[Boromir88]

I'm still kicking myself. The Night I died, I had a shortlist of people to hunt: Boro, Kit, Pitch, Legate... and Sally.

*kick**kick**kick*:mad:


hehe, could you have imagined if you picked me? Oh the carnage...mwahaha! :p

I think the first night I was hunting wilwa. We thought Nog was going to be protected, so just went with someone I thought was probably innocent. The plan though was, if Nog wasn't dead, and he revealed me, I was going to get lynched and pick him. Then he goes and dreams of Legate. *head-desk* You played that role probably as good as it could have been played Nog.

[Morsul the Dark]

Go wolves YAYAYAY!!!:D:D

[Loslote]

Heh. Before I left for the retreat that ended up being on this weekend (sorry about that, guys, there was confusion and misinformation and I didn't know it was *this* weekend... :rolleyes: ) I saw that *one* vote and kind of freaked...my thoughts were mostly "he is *NOT* getting himself killed and taking the *RANGER* with him because his *PACKMATE* voted him!!!!" Then I calmed down and saw the humourous value in the situation. :p

And thanks again to Sally for acting as co-moddess when I couldn't reach Hakon and I was away. *snuggles Sally*

And Elfie, you're good. :D

If anyone wants to know, Noggie dreamed of Pitchie his last Night. Good seer. *pets Noggie*

EDIT: Boro, Izzy, I've posted your narration.

[Pitchwife]

I can only concur with everything my dear packmate has said above. Nice game design, Lottie - I think the two Unicorns (I was the Werecorn, of course) more or less balanced out the high percentage of wolves, as both packs were anxious not to kill them, and Nog's reveal didn't make life any easier for us, either. And I loved the laconic minimalism of your narrations!

I'm happy to return Zil's compliments. His perceptions of people were most astute - e.g. he pegged Legate as a likely member of the rival pack after Day 1, based on the way he'd been suspecting me (assuming the Aphid Seer had dreamt me) and made a sound and elaborate case for TEW's innocence (a splendid counterpart to his attack on the thread!) in Night 4, when Kit's daring double wolf-on-wolf against Legate and Boro had made me waver about my gut-feeling that TEW was the Innocorn. (You really should post our PMs! Or I can do it, if you haven't saved them all.) And it was quite nice for both of us to know for once we were on the same side.
If Zil had his night of agony in Night 3, it was my turn to come close to despair in Night 4. I wasn't sure how the Unicorn role would affect the endgame - i.e. if the Innocorn was the last innocent standing, could we claim victory or would we have to kill him and go through the motions again the next Day with a revived ordo? - , and both of us feared that the Aphid Seer had dreamed one of us and, to avoid a Unicorn revival, would go for Zil, who couldn't protect himself that Night; I dreaded the perspective of being the last wolf in the endgame and thought the best I could hope to achieve would be a draw. It was Zil who reminded me that the Seerwolf couldn't see our gifts and was just as likely to target me - as it turned out to be.

Lommy, it must have sucked for you to go so early, but I hope it's a comfort that we avenged you. Very well seered, and well played - I hope you didn't mind that I stole some of your ideas from our Nightly discussion *coughHunterrevealingasSeercough*. (For the record, Lommy's other candidates for the Night 1 dream were Kit and Nerwen, both of which would have been splendid choices as well.)

All in all, I enjoyed being part of this pack very much - although I wouldn't have minded being teamed up with any of the Aphids, either. Unlike your insect counterparts, you were formidable opponents, Legate and Boro - and Kit fooled my innocent persona totally. (For curiosity's sake, Kit, what were your dreams?)

wilwa, all I can say is your co-victory was thoroughly deserved.

Nog, I have to agree with Boro that this was a model Seer performance. Actually, your assessments of TEW and Kit were a big help to us figuring out which was which last Night!:p
And à propos,
If anyone wants to know, Noggie dreamed of Pitchie his last Night. Good seer. *pets Noggie*
Not quite "Of course you would" this time, but I had a strong feeling you might, and therefore was quite adamant we had to kill you now or never.

I'm still kicking myself. The Night I died, I had a shortlist of people to hunt: Boro, Kit, Pitch, Legate... and Sally.
Wow. Or rather, Phew! We were quite right to fear you.

I kind of suspected the innocents would lose, seems to happen every time I am the Ranger.. Eeeek.
Haha. I had thought about forgoing the protection on Nog Night 2, but whenever I gamble, the opposite tends to happen. So, I figured protecting him was better than losing him. And just envisioned the Princess Bride in my head.
Don't blame yourself, I'd absolutely have done the same in your shoes.

sally, kudos for being spot on about me on Day 1 - that was a nasty trap you caught me in, I was tremendously relieved when Nerwen got rid of you for me. And
whoever left the anonymous neg rep for doing the moddess' bidding
can't have been in your last game; I think it should have been obvious you'd got a post mortem assignment, similar to the phantom's Heckler role. Thanks for co-modding, too!

TEWie, you really did very very well - I mean, not only correctly identifying the four remaining wolves, but also their respective packs! And although I wavered a bit about you and Kit for a while, it would have truly surprised me if you'd turned out a rival wolf, you felt so innocent to me.

Good job, everybody - including Shasta and Morsul; sorry both of you had to go so early (but then again, not really *wolvish grin*).

Finally,
"Mr. Agreeable", indeed.
:rolleyes:That's gonna stick with me for good now, I guess. I'll just have to live with it...:D

[Kitanna]

when Kit's daring double wolf-on-wolf against Legate and [B]Boro
There I was trying to look suspicious enough to lead the crowd away from my packmates and it totally backfired. Who knew Legate was going to be a dream or that Boro made a better lynch candidate than me. Image my surprise coming home from work two different days to find my packmates dead.

(For curiosity's sake, Kit, what were your dreams?)
Morsul, Sally, Wilwa, and Pitch.

[Nogrod]

That was fun! *bowstoLottie*

And looking at all these "revelations" one just realises how close it was, so many times, to take the game into a totally another direction. So small margins...

And my apologies to Lommy also online (done that in RL already). But I just had to check her first as she and Greenie (both my daughters, to anyone who doesn't know it yet) are to me the hardest to fathom as I tend to either over- or under-suspect them everytime.

Legate I had a hunch over, mainly from his carefulness (which he always is - and very skilful indeed!) and of his relation to Lommy. First I thought they were in cahoots but later I started to think it more probable they were probing each other because they were on different sides.

On Day2 I came actually so confident of Kit being a wolf (because of her sudden and poorly reasoned attack on Legate - and I of course knew he was a wolf that time but she didn't know I knew - so I thought she knew Legate was on the opposing side) that I didn't feel it important enough to dream of her. But looking how Pitch trailed her suspicion being careful enough not to look like he was actually "driving" it made me very suspicious of him of being Kit's mate (with Lommy as the third one on their team - heh, the one who checked Legate on N1 of course, and that was why Kit & Pitch knew he was an enemy... :rolleyes:)

So as you see: one can pick the right people from the way they act and build totally believable explanations for their acts based on totally wrong reasoning! :D

Well done Ladybugs!

And you really had some tough luck there Aphids! I just don't understand how Boro got lynched in the first place...

But the unluckiest of all I think were us innocents: such a bloodbath! Looking at the carnage from N1 I was really happy I had revealed already on D1. It was just as messy as I feared it could be. But well fought, looking at the circumstances. And don't worry Izzy, it tends to go that way: when you risk as the ranger the wolves seem to act straightforwardly and vice versa. It just tends to go that way. :(

[Thinlómien]

Yay! Go Zil and Pitch! *hugs them and does a bug-y dance* :D

Yes, for me this game wasn't the most pleasant, because on Night1 I was like "yay I'm playing ww! yay nice pack! yay I dreamt of the seer!" and on Day1 I was like "yay I'm playing ww! yay I'm quite convincingly innocent-looking! oh sh**, Nogrod dreamt of me!!!!!!!!!!!" :D

Anyway, I'm glad if I gave some ideas in the Nightly discussions and created confusion that my packmates could use to their advantage. :cool:

Thanks for the game, Lottie. I have to confess I didn't read anything properly after I died, but looks like people were playing well. It was fun as long as it lasted!

ps. *points at signature*

[Inziladun]

Hey, it's a seriously intimidating name if you happen to be an aphid. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axEXO0D7XXk&feature=related)

See? Prophetic names, they were.:cool:

Heh, I forgot about their interspecies antagonism.

Bwahahahaha, mine is an evil laugh, etc. (Also, thanks to Lottie herself of course for letting me/telling me to have fun post-mortem. I did in fact enjoy myself, even if I didn't do a whole lot of consequence in the game.)

I still say Charlie the Unicorn's friends are downright disturbing.

Haha. I had thought about forgoing the protection on Nog Night 2, but whenever I gamble, the opposite tends to happen. So, I figured protecting him was better than losing him. And just envisioned the Princess Bride in my head.

I don't think I could take that gamble as a Ranger. 'A bird in the hand'...etc.

And then their titles kept including Ladybug Pack.

Well, with you dealing with two packs we wanted to make sure there was no confusion. :)

That's gonna stick with me for good now, I guess. I'll just have to live with it...

Well, "Mr. Agreeable" isn't so bad. at least we aren't calling you "Stan".

But looking how Pitch trailed her suspicion being careful enough not to look like he was actually "driving" it made me very suspicious of him of being Kit's mate (with Lommy as the third one on their team - heh, the one who checked Legate on N1 of course, and that was why Kit & Pitch knew he was an enemy...

And there I was so sure I'd be your likely dream, with the way you were attacking my suspicion of TEW (supported by Pitch!).

Yes, for me this game wasn't the most pleasant, because on Night1 I was like "yay I'm playing ww! yay nice pack! yay I dreamt of the seer!" and on Day1 I was like "yay I'm playing ww! yay I'm quite convincingly innocent-looking! oh sh**, Nogrod dreamt of me!!!!!!!!!!!"

Indeed I thought you were looking quite good on Day 1. All that work, only to be taken out by the work of a Seer on a mission. :rolleyes:

[Inziladun]

Hi there fellows!
Hi there too, and let me say I'm quite delighted to be a member of this particular pack!
It feels wonderful to be back to ww, but Lottie could've given me an easier role than the seerwolf... Looking forward to it though as I tend to be a bad wolf and a good seer...
So, what are you, friendses?
I'm the WereUnicorn and was told to 'try very very hard not to die', for obvious reasons. I suppose that makes Zil our RangerWolf - but I've got to admit I'm a little confused as to the definitive version of the Rules.

I was just looking at the roles and although we are in constant danger of dying, we are in the happy position (compared to traditional wolves) that we can really try to find wolves and not only pretend to be doing so. It will make at least my life easier as I'm a terrible liar.
I was thinking the same. In my first game as a wolf, I discovered that I find wolf-on-wolfing much easier than making cases against known innocents...

Any preferences on the Night1 dream? I would go for Nogrod because it would be nice to know whether we can let him mess around with other people's heads, or Nerwen, because I want to know if she's in the other pack! I could also go for checking Kitanna as I can't read her at all and she'd be a dangerous opponent... Other opinions?
Well, if it was me, my first pick would be Nerwen (especially after last game), but Nog or Kit would be good choices as well.
What's quite nice is that while you can't see the gifts of the enemy wolves, you can still see innocent gifteds (if I understand the Rules correctly), which is something to keep in mind after Day1. (Not that you need to be told, but I just thought I'd mention it anyway.

And thoughts (on anything)? :D
I'm asking myself what should be our strategy towards the other pack, if we can sniff them out - keep them around for a while, let them help us reduce the number of innocents but risk getting bitten by the mouth we're feeding, or get rid of them in time before they can help the innocents reduce our numbers? (It's more or less the same question as with a Werebear.) In the long run, of course, we want to Kill Them All...:cool:

That's all for now, but if you'd like to talk, I guess I'll be awake for another hour or so.

Greetings,
Pitch

Meeting and greeting, talking of possible dream-picks for Lommy, and how to treat the Aphids.


Speaking of dreams, what to do if you come up with someone from the rival pack? Try to make a logical case against them that won't mark you as having inside information and get them lynched?
Sounds like the logical thing to do when you're a Seer who can't reveal... (But see my last about the strategy question.)
À propos, it just occurs to me that the Innocent Seer may have a hard time if they choose to reveal - even if they get a wolf lynched, the other innocents have no way of telling their own Seer from a wolvish one. That could be used to our favour, if one of us has the bad luck to get dreamed.

I'd rather kill the other wolves that way during Daytime, when possible. It'll cause more confusion for the innocents.
Seconded.

-Pitch

Discussing what to do if Lommy dreamed a rival wolf. Didn't need to spend so much time on it, in retrospect. And I like that about it being hard for the real Seer to reveal. :rolleyes:

And of course:

If we manage to do it easily, let's get Nogrod lynched toMorrow: he is the goodie seer.

Otherwise, let's just let him be and kill him on Night2. No panic about getting him lynched though, we have plenty time and now we know to be wary...

I'm off to sleep now, so good night and good Day! See you around on the thread...

-Lommiewolf

Plenty of time. So we thought...

[Pitchwife]

I still say Charlie the Unicorn's friends are downright disturbing.
So they are, now that I've found the time to look at all of sally's links.

Well, "Mr. Agreeable" isn't so bad. at least we aren't calling you "Stan".
The latter's taken (sort of;)), but in RL I'm more or less Stan to my beloved's Ollie...:)

And there I was so sure I'd be your likely dream, with the way you were attacking my suspicion of TEW (supported by Pitch!).
I told you he wouldn't need a dream to go for you...

Indeed I thought you were looking quite good on Day 1.
So did I, I don't know I'd have seen anything furry about you if I'd been an innocent.

[Inziladun]

The question is: is [Nog] guarded toNight? Common sense would say so, and with two packs to worry about, my feeling is that the Ranger can less afford to take the chance not to guard him than normal.
As I said in my last, my feeling is that two packs or one make less of a difference to the Ranger logistics than the question of his alignment, but all that is more or less academic. If I were the Ranger, I'd protect him, period.
As much as I hate to, I guess Nog will have to be let alone toNight, at least by us. If you see things differently though, let me know.
My only worry is that the other pack thinks the same, nobody goes after him and it turns out later he wasn't guarded after all, in which case I'll eat my keyboard (which has already got some fang marks from previous games). But yeah, the more I think about it the more I agree with you. Let's keep him for next Night.

If Nerwen isn't a wolf, I think she might be a gifted. She doesn't look as active as usual. It might have amused Lottie to make someone like The Elf Warrior gifted, but that's just meta. Nerwen
might be a good kill choice too. She's another one who, as we know, is quite deadly when she's not on your side. Additionally, if I was the Seer I'd want to know what side she was on, so maybe Nog might be thinking the same way and dream her toNight. Eh, it's really all guesswork.
Actually, I'm sure you've noticed there's hardly anybody in this village who isn't either a wolf or gifted or endowed with a secret role:rolleyes:. But good point about Nerwen - if I were the Seer, she'd have been my first pick. And it would be nice if we could spoil Nog's second dream by killing his target and having their role revealed before he can do it:cool:.
I guess I'm thinking now The Elf Warrior, Boro, or Nerwen for the kill. It has to be sent in by a half-hour before DL. Let me know your final thoughts as soon as you can.
OK, among these three, I'd choose Nerwen - mainly for sporting reasons (Tewie hasn't played for a long time, and Boro died early in his last few games), but also because she's the most dangerous.

Another thing - just in case one of us gets dreamed next, the other obviously shouldn't make any stupid rescue attempts, rather push what's falling and see to their own survival. But after that, the survivor might try to discredit Nog as a wolf-seer who only delivers wolves from the rival pack. Needs to be done carefully, though.

And that's it for now. See you toMorrow on the thread.
Pitch

Of course, what to do about Nog was the main topic of discussion. Once we'd decided to let him be, that was our thought process in choosing who we would kill. I find it truly amazing both packs ended up with the same kill-choice, completely independant of one another. That must simply speak for Nerwen's fear-factor. :eek:

[Inziladun]

OK, now the reading is over...
Tough Day. Trying to juggle several things at once led to some slipups on my end. I think our wolf-on-wolf looked good. It didn't seem forced to me.
At least I was right about Legate.
Yes you were! Quite brilliant.:)
What to do toNight? Here's the question: if we are to lose (Heaven forbid!;)), do we want it to be to the innocents, or the rival pack? I would say the innocents, with the mindset if we can't have victory neither shall the other wolves.The answer to that question will affect our kill toNight.
1. We're not going to lose. *insert 'whistling in the dark' smiley* (Seriously - of course we may, but we haven't lost yet, and the other pack is not much better off than we are.)
2. If we do, I don't care to whom - i.e. may the best have the victory, whoever it is.
On another subject, what do you make of this from Wilwa?
I haven't looked back over the role descriptions. Is she saying she's the Anti-Lover? Who else would not be a threat to us? But why would she be concerned about Nog's dream? If she is the Anti-Lover, she's a wild card, because she'll do whatever will ensure her survival.
That's about the only explanation that makes any sense at all. She wants to survive, and all three parties may need her as a voting ally in the endgame, therefore she thinks we can't afford to kill/lynch her.
(Actually, I had the weird idea to fake-reveal as the AL myself - what with my interactions w/ sally & Shasta, it might not look quite implausible; but if wilwa decides to 'spill' toMorrow...)
Anyway, what about Nog? If we are more interested in doing away with the other pack, as the greater threat to us, we ought to consider leaving him be. Why? For one thing, they're almost sure to target him. For another, say they do go after him and are blocked, we'll then know we can get him the next Night if we wish. And if both packs get kills toNight, you and I are that much closer to winning.
I'm not committed to that strategy, mind you. Just something I'm ruminating on.
Thus saith the Lord of Werewolves: Thou shalt not suffer a Seer to live. Or so I believe.
What makes you think the other pack won't leave him alone thinking we'll go after him?
As to who the other pack could be, I don't buy Nog's theory that Kit = the other wolf-Seer, I don't think she'd jeopardize her Ranger like that. Anyway, I'd like to avoid their Hunter while we can.
Going to look at the thread again, and I'll try to separate what my ordo-self thought from what my wolf-self thinks...
Till later,
- Pitch

I saw that as a less-than stellar performance on Day 2 from me. Still worried about Nog, and whether we should go after him. I thought seriously of leaving Nog alone, hoping the Aphids would get him, and going for Boro. Not because I necessarily thought he was a wolf, but because he was an unknown factor, and would be fairly trailless. I wonder who he was hunting that Night.
Also, Wilwa was an obvious topic.

I'm not that sure you'd be Nog's next dream. It could be me, or it's possible he'll check one of Boro or Izzy to make sure he's not overlooking something; or even wilwa. He may think that a case can be made against either of us without the support of a dream. Not that I'd bet my life or yours on it (which is what we'll be doing if we leave him alone), but it's possible.
Anyway, what can happen if we go for Nog and the Aphids go for one of us? You'll protect yourself, and if they kill me and my role is revealed, my little wolf-on-wolf against you could make the innocents think better of you.*
Let's face it, it's not awfully likely that both of us will survive to the end. But the same goes for them. Right now, the innocents/non-wolves have the numeric advantage.

About who is what - I couldn't glean that much from the thread (which is because I didn't sleep too well last night, had a long work-day and am rather tired now), but I quite like your idea about Boro + Izzy = Aphids. Some guesswork, rather hunch-based (and hoping to channel something remotely like Shasta's psychic powers):
Boro = Aphid-Hunter
Izzy = Aphid-Seer
and the innocents (knowing Nog=Seer and assuming wilwa=AL):
TEWie = Unicorn
Kit = Ranger.
Hmmm... if I'm right, I'd say, leave Kit alone. If she guarded Nog last Night (which I think likely), she'll guard herself toNight. And we don't want to kill the Unicorn (yet), do we?
So either Nog (like you said, at least we'd know what the Ranger has been up to), or Izzy.

*Forgot - with a known innocent back from the dead, the chances of either pack winning would get rather bleak... (That whole Unicorn business really sucks!:mad:)

Bah. Any last thoughts before I sink into happy oblivion?
-Pitch

Pitch was spot on about Nog's dream, as it turned out. He had Izzy and Kit mixed up, but very close on the roles!
And we decided we couldn't ignore Nog.

[Inziladun]

You're right, I did protect myself last Night, so I'm defenceless toNight. I think we're both equally inviting targets, so it's a crap-shoot.
Plus if the Aphid Seer has dreamed either of us, xe'll know not to touch me. Well, hope dies last.

At this point, we had both forgotten the Aphid Seer couldn't see our gifts.

Do you really think TEW is more likely to be the Aphid? I was looking at things last Night.
Kit voted for Legate Day 2, before Nog came out with his dream, and Legate had no other votes, and wasn't much of a target for suspicion.
Day 3 she voted for Boro, first vote for him, when he also wasn't a talked about lynch candiate at the time.
What are the odds Kit just happened to nail two wolves from the same pack two Days in a row? It could be a daring bit of wolf-on-wolf that backfired on them, first through no fault of their own with Nog's dreaming Legate. That would would naturally have had the effect of decreasing suspicion against Kit.
Then on Day 3. she gave an early vote for Boro, not knowing he would get more votes. How could anyone guess who Wilwa might vote for?
Of course, there was all that talk about the Unicorn from Kit, but that could have been either something to throw us off, or an attempt to draw out the real Unicorn.
You've got a point - TEWie's somehow felt very unicornish to me until toNight, and considering the shaky reasoning I can indeed see her Legate vote as wolf-on-wolf; but after that backfired the way it did, do you think she'd have risked the same again with Boro? Hmmm... with Nog removed, and Boro being their Hunter, perhaps.
But no matter - the only one we can be pretty sure is not a Unicorn is wilwa; she's both a safe target and a precarious factor while alive.

I'd been trying to work out who the final Aphid was, TEW or Kit. That wolf-on-wolf of Kit's did throw us off for a while. It was only in comparison with TEW that she really started looking like a wolf.

Now for thoughts on TEW:

I've been looking back over the thread, searching for points of interest on him.
I noted that after I put up my 'suspicion' post on TEW, Legate said:

Well. Anyway, I might led Inzil slide a bit backwards among my suspects now, but still there is something to think about....

That was after I had responded to something else he'd brought up about me, about why Nerwen would have been a 'logical' choice for a kill. If TEW was his packmate, it would have been quite easy and safe for him to have latched onto your criticism of me, with that plus what he already had.

Nog was an innocent, and is a very shrewd judge when it comes to wolves (obviously!). He thought TEW looked innocent.

In TEW's response to me that Day, he actually agreed with many of the points I'd made, and overall seemed rather aggrieved and dispirited. Not out of the question for wolvish behaviour, but still: he didn't go on the immediate offensive, as I would have.

The next Day, TEW came out swinging:

I think I know who the wolves are. I'm guessing Inzy, Pitchwife, Kitanna and Boromir. Anybody want to confess? I won't have much time to read and post in the rest of toDAY, what with work and a school event coming up. Inzy, I'm not gonna be nice to you just because you've accused me. This is war! Nogrod said you seem opportunistic, and I'm inclined to agree. And the math is against you. I know its also against me, but I know who I am.

He was certainly right about three of the four he names as wolves!
It concerned me somewhat that this was such a change in tone, almost as if he'd been discussing the matter with someone. But then, maybe he'd just been thinking it over and decided to be more agressive. And he himself said he wouldn't be around most of the Day, so it would make sense he might vote early.

His next post was this:

[Legate] was talking about Sally and me, in case you're wondering. Another thing. The fighting I mentioned was so bad Legate voted for Pitchwife. If I had to guess which one of my above wolf picks is wrong, I'd say Kitanna because Legate and Lommy were in separate packs. That's enough for the night. Bye

This feels innocentish. I see no reason he would bring up Legate in association with himself, if they were mates.

He showed up one more time, late.

Inzy, your response to my outburst feels genuine to me. With my luck (and skill level) in playing werewolf you may very well be innocent. I think you have a good point about Kitanna and her vote for Legate. However, if I wanted to be stubborn, I could say it was a gamble to avoid suspicion in the future. But I seriously doubt that's the case. Her vote had slipped my mind. There goes my grand unified werewolf theorem. I thought Izzy was innocent because she hadn't rung any alarm bells in me, Nogrod had a feeling she was innocent, my suspicion of you, and Lommy's post. That would still be my guess. Look in my post after my vote for the Legate quotes I was referring to. I'm gonna leave now and not come back toDAY.

Backing off suspicion of me (after already giving me a vote :rolleyes:).

All in all, I think he really does look innocent. And if he isn't a wolf, Kit is.

What do you think?

-Inzil

Where I became convinced TEW wasn't likely to be the Aphid.


Sound analysis of TEW, thanks - and my gut feeling about him from last Night agrees with it. He's also been much too extrovert, all in all, for what I'd expect from a Seerwolf.
But does it really matter which of them is which?
I've been doing simulations (with jelly bears of different colours:D) until my brain smoked, but it all boils down to this: the situation being what it is, with the two Unicorns, I don't see how it's possible for either pack to win this game at this point, unless the Aphid Seer (let's just assume it's Kit) makes a suicidal mistake toNight.

I had a PM I was going to send you with a lot of different scenarios laid out, but I started getting confused. ;)
Anyway, it may not be so set in stone what the Aphid will do toNight.
I remembered something from the Admin Thread:

The Seer!wolves receive one dream every Night. If the Seer!wolf dreams of a rival wolf, they are only told that the player is a wolf, not their gift. If the Seer!wolf dreams of a gifted, they are told what the gift is.

They can't know which of us is the Were! I think that gives us a sizable advantage.

Does that alter your perceptions of our chances?

-Inzil

And the revelation of the rule we'd both forgotten, that induced us to throw caution to the wind and go after our likeliest Aphid candidate.

[Loslote]

Pitchie, love the avie. :Merisu: Plus, I saw this:

co-mod(dess): Hakon

and laughed so hard I didn't see the rest:

(+ sally ad hoc after death)


:p

Poor Kit kept having her dreams killed off - first Morsul, then Sally. At least she got to pm with Wilwa to make up for it...I was glad of that.

[wilwarin538]

Poor Kit.....At least she got to pm with Wilwa to make up for it...I was glad of that.

What? *is confused* I never pm'ed with Kit! That would have been awesome!!!

[Loslote]

What? *is confused* I never pm'ed with Kit! That would have been awesome!!!

Aww, you didn't?? Dang. Kit must have gone bed before I could tell her the good news...upsie.:rolleyes:

[Boromir88]

What? *is confused* I never pm'ed with Kit! That would have been awesome!!!

Aww, you didn't?? Dang. Kit must have gone bed before I could tell her the good news...upsie.:rolleyes:

We both decided with Nogrod possibly still alive, and not knowing where wilwa's loyalties were going to lie, not to PM her that night. That is why I came out the following day trying to find out if we could trust to tell her who we were. I found out I couldn't!!!! :p

<3

[wilwarin538]

I found out I couldn't!!!! :p

<3

Haha. I totally woulda helped you guys out if I thought it would benefit me. Though I have to say now, that I'm quite happy I voted for you, it worked out nicely for me. :D

<3

[satansaloser2005]

This from the girl whose icon is a cupcake pwning a muffin. ;)

[wilwarin538]

This from the girl whose icon is a cupcake pwning a muffin. ;)

Nooooo. The muffin is lulling the cupcake into the false security of 'friendship' until she can find a good oppurtunity to strike! :p

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate I had a hunch over, mainly from his carefulness (which he always is - and very skilful indeed!) and of his relation to Lommy. First I thought they were in cahoots but later I started to think it more probable they were probing each other because they were on different sides.
Relation! Once again wonderful when people suspect you for completely imagined and thus illogical (from your point of view) reasons: There never was any!

Nevertheless, it was quite fun to play after a long time, I must say, and well, had it not been for the unfortunate Seer incident (and later for the unfortunate incident with Boro after I was dead), I would have been quite happy. But well, the game did not seem really very unbalanced in the end, provided that Nogrod however has done a remarkable job (although again - 50-50 to dream of a Wolf is not so difficult). Something small to the innocents' side and they could have even won (well, if the Anti-Lover joined them, they just as well could have).

So thanks for the moddies (and the rest of annoying sallys ;) ) and all the players, including my poor packmates - it was much fun even for the short time there.

And one note: my repeated expressions of paranoia about Pitchwife was genuine, I knew from the beginning something is terribly wrong with him. I was actually thinking that he might be the other Wolf Seer, but in any case, I knew he was a Wolf. There was no doubt about that.