T-I-G WW LXXIV: War of the Wolves

[Loslote]

"I'm bored. I'm tired. I'm hungry. I'm thirsty. I'm - "

"Annoying," growled the other wolf.

"I want to go home," whined the smaller wolf.

"Bradley," the older wolf groaned, "we can't go home. You know that."

Bradley pouted for a moment. Then: "But I'm bored. And tired. And hungry. And - "

"Well, we can do something about the hungry, can't we now?" The older wolf bared its teeth in a feral grin. "You stay here."

Bradley watched his older brother slip away into the Night. I can do anything Bartholomew can, he thought. Bradley trotted off in the opposite direction.

~~~

Over the course of that fateful Night, the lives of six villagers were forever changed, though they did not know it until the next Night. Under the faint glow of a cresent moon, they left their homes and joined their packmates in groups of three. They plotted all Night long:

~~~

"Why is it that everything happens under a full or cresent moon?"

"I know, right? New and half moons just aren't as creepy, for some reason."

"Well, at least it's not a full moon toNight. That would be so cliche."

~~~

"I think we should have a pack name."

"A what?"

"A pack name. You know, so the moddess can write narrations easier."

"Sucking up to the moddess, huh? I like it. So what should it be?"

"Team Werewolf?"

The others glared.

"Evidently not. Team Awesome?"

"Team Ladybug! ... what? They're the lions of the bug world."

"Fine. Team Ladybug it is."

"You know what would be funny? If another pack named itself Team Aphid."

"Don't be ridiculus. There are no other packs."

~~~

Meanwhile, the other pack was also naming itself.

"Team Aphid!"

"Smart. No one would expect it."

~~~

And so began the First Night.

[Loslote]

Lottie and Hakon were sitting across from each other, a chess board between them. Hakon was staring at Lottie, who was gazing off into space.

"Are you going to go?" Hakon finally asked.

Lottie looked up, surprised. "I already did."

"What? Where?"

"I moved this thingi over here."

"Pawns can't go sideways."

"They can't? Dang. The horsies can, though, right?"

"No."

"Dang!" Lottie started at the board for a moment. "Okay, start over."

"Again?"

"I'm getting better! We got almost twelves moves that time."

Hakon buried his face in his hands. Over his head, Lottie saw a horrifying sight. Her eyes widened.

"Six of them," she whispered.

"What?" said one of the wolves. The others looked at each other.

"Gah! There are six of us!"

One of the wolves puffed itself up. "Well, we were here first, so you can go find someone else to kill. He's ours."

"Him?" another wolf said, snorting. "You can have him. We're after her."

"Oh. Well, that's okay then."

Lottie looked up at Hakon. "Let's just say you won."

Hakon nodded wordlessly.

~~~

Later that Night, the wolves split up. Before they headed home, the first pack said to the other,

"We are so gonna beat you guys."

"Oh, it's on!" the others said.

"Good Night," they said together, and went home cackling.

Living players:

Lommy
Kit
Sally
Pitchie
Zil
Morsul
Wilwa
Boro
Nog
Shasta
The Elf-warrior
Nerwen
Izzy
Legate

Day 1 has begun. Nightly pmers, stop pming. You may now post.

[The Elf-warrior]

AAAGH! We're in big trouble, no mistake about it. OK, anybody wanna confess? Anybody? *shrugs*

[wilwarin538]

To please the moddess, I wrote this song :D:

You can't imagine so many wolves in the daily mail
All of them coming anonymously so they leave no trail
I never thought I'd have an admirer from overseas
But someone is sending me stationary filled with evil wolves.

Some wolves in swimsuits, some wolves are swinging from a vine
Some wolves in jackboots, some wolves that wish they could be mine.
Starsky and Hutch wolves, a wolf who's sitting on the can
A pair of Dutch wolves, who send their love from Amsterdam.

Another postcard with evil wolves
And every one is addressed to me.

Some wolves in hard hats, wolves a-working on a chain gang
Some wolves who love cats, burning rubber in a Mustang
A birthday-wishing wolf, a wolf in black like a goth
A goin' fishin' wolf, a British wolf in the bath.

Somehow they followed me even though I packed and moved my home
No matter what, they come and they come they won't leave me alone
Another wolf in the mail could make me lose my mind
But look at me shuffling through the stack until I finally find

Some wolves in swimsuits
Some wolves in Jackboots
Some wolves in hard hats
Some wolves who love cats
I've got some shaved wolves; that's wolves devoid of any hair
I've got depraved wolves dressed up in women's underwear.

Another postcard with evil wolves
And every one is addressed to me.
Every one is, every one is, every one is addressed to me.
Every one is, every one is, every one is addressed to me.


Off to bed now. I'm getting some blood tests done in the morning, but I may be able to hop on before then, after that I'll likely be rather weak and woosey, but I'll try my best.

[Loslote]

Good Wilmuffin. :D

EDIT: Good TEw, too. I love my minions. *snuggles all you song parodiers*

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Here and reading.

But there's nothing to read yet!

Shut up, Nilp. I know what I'm doing.

Suuuure you do.

Sigh. Just ignore him.

[Inziladun]

AAAGH! We're in big trouble, no mistake about it. OK, anybody wanna confess? Anybody? *shrugs*

How about you? We're holding our breath. :rolleyes:

To please the moddess, I wrote this song :D:

It pleased me as well. One of my favourite bands!

Here and reading.

But there's nothing to read yet!

Shut up, Nilp. I know what I'm doing.

Suuuure you do.

Sigh. Just ignore him.

Channeling Nilp, are you? That's lynchworthy in itself. ;)

[The Elf-warrior]

Inziladun, I'd like to confess that I'm not a wolf. I've also got a song for you all.

Werewolves gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses.
Hairy snouts that plot destruction
Necromancer's best construction.
In the fields the bodies bleeding
Oh our lives are oh so fleeting!
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their werewolf minds
Oh Lord yeah!

Evil creatures hide themselves away
They only started the war.
Why do they go out to bite?
They're only doing their role.

Time will tell on their furry minds
Eating people just for fun.
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait till their judgment day comes
Yeah!

Now in darkness wolves start eating
Bloodstains where the werewolves feasting.
No more werewolves have the power
Hand of Eru struck the hour
Day of judgment, Eru's calling
On their knees the werewolves crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Sauron laughing spreads his wings
Oh Lord Yeah!

[satansaloser2005]

Here and reading.

But there's nothing to read yet!

Shut up, Nilp. I know what I'm doing.

Suuuure you do.

Sigh. Just ignore him.



Awwwww, my darling Nilp is here?! Finally, someone for me to run away with! :p

[The Elf-warrior]

Well, it's pretty quiet here. I guess I'll do a recap.

Post #1 and #2 Modess narration.
Post #3 The Elf-warrior expresses panic. He asks if anybody wants to confess.
Post #4 Wilwarin538 writes a song for the pleasure of the modess. It is a parody of a Barenaked Ladies number called Another Postcard. She needs to go to bed and wake up the next morning to get a blood test. She might be able to post before then. She expresses doubts about her physical condition.
Post #5 Modess congratulates Wilwarin538 on her song parody. (She compliments The Elf-warrior in an edit.) She calls the two her minions.
Post #6 Shasta shows symptoms of multiple personality disorder.
Post #7 Izzy turns The Elf-warrior's question back on him. He compliments Wilwa on her song. He also jokes that channeling Nilp is lynch-worthy.
Post #8 The Elf-warrior proclaims his innocence. He parodies a song by Black Sabbath called War Pigs.
Post #9 Satansaloser jokingly expresses a desire to run away with Nilp.

[satansaloser2005]

Post #8 The Elf-warrior proclaims his innocence. He parodies a song by Black Sabbath called War Pigs.
Post #9 Satansaloser jokingly expresses a desire to run away with Nilp.

Recaps the recap.


Elf-Warrior is a boy, and a pig. But I repeat myself. Erm, I mean....;)

And that ain't a joke, fella. That should be 'Sally starts packing her bags for when Nilp shows up to rescue her from this nasty place'. That's the correct summary.


And I'm Sally by the way. ^_^

[The Elf-warrior]

I'm sorry, Sally.

[satansaloser2005]

I'm sorry, Sally.

Hey hey, it's all right. We've not met before, after all. And besides, our darling miss Kath called me Stan once. :rolleyes:<3


*whispers* Oh, but Izzy's a girl. *unwhispers*

[The Elf-warrior]

Inziladun, my apologies. *sigh* Gender confusion.

[satansaloser2005]

Inziladun, my apologies. *sigh* Gender confusion.

No no no, you're right about Inziladun. *pets you* Unless he had a horrible accident this weekend (that I wouldn't even want to know about!) he is in fact a guy. Isabellkya, however, is a girl. *snuggles them both* Easy enough to make such mistakes, so don't fret, k?



K, so I need to do something other than talk about expensive and painful surgeries. I may be back before I go to bed, may not. We'll see, yeah? :)

[The Elf-warrior]

Ok. Enough of that. What else to talk about? I think you all are still neutral suspicionwise.

[Isabellkya]

Haha. Such fun.
I could see where the confusion came from.

Izzy is typically the shortened version of my name - Isabellkya.
Inzy was a trial one for Inziladun's.. but I think Dun is the most popular one as of late I would say.

Should we lynch Wilwa now for professing her paper communications between herself and wolves? Or did I read that wrong?

[The Elf-warrior]

No, Isabellkya. We need a better reason than a werewolf themed parody of a song about paper communications from chimpanzees. And sorry about the mixup. That's all for tonight (My time.) Later, all.

[Nerwen]

Ok. Enough of that. What else to talk about? I think you all are still neutral suspicionwise.

That is very suspicious. :p

[Isabellkya]

Ah, but! The last game saw a wolf joke about Apples all game long - Nerwen! Wilwa was her partner in crime!


I think it a fair conclusion that joking about being evil on Day one, should net you a lynching! Especially if you were a nefarious creature in the previous game, and were partnered with a wolf whom joked about being evil all game long....

xD

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

First, thumbs up for the War Pigs cover to TEW. If every new player introduced him/herself like this, it would certainly help me distinguish them better from the gray mass :)

Secondly, though, however nice the joking's been here this far, I am dreading the moment when Nogrod comes and lynches you all. That's just to say the general warning...

Thirdly, well, what else. I should also say that I am not sure how much I am going to be around toDay, as I will have Lommy around here, and even though it's possible we may be able to post each from our own computers, not sure if we will post *that* much. If it stays this way, however, I am not worried about missing too many important posts (although of course at least some posts to the topic would be appreciated, although there's still some Daylight left).

Speaking of that, I think there will be of course a LOT more to deal with toMorrow, given the amount of kills that can happen - and "special effects" on top of that. The point is, of course, that very well half of us might not be here anymore by toMorrow.

Thinking whether there is anything more clever to say in general - well, since I think I understand the rules now that I have re-read them, there's probably not anything more... maybe just, I hope I understood it correctly, the revived people can be only Ordos and they will return as only Ordos? I think that's pretty powerful tool in that case, and I guess there can be also pretty creative use for that, but most of all, I hope it will provide the balance needed.

Because - at last, a totally insignificant and totally unimportant note - should I be worried that nobody seems to worry about the fact that almost a half of the people in the village are Wolves? It looks at least sinister, and that's why I am looking up to the revivals as tools of balance (although they, by themselves, need some people to die first - one of them a Wolf. Also, am I right, if a Unicorn dies on the first Day, the ability's wasted?).

[Morsul the Dark]

Going to work soon just popping in.

Preliminary look at everyone who's posted

The Elf Warrior... chatter chatter chatter.... Day 1 early on not suspicious (Just noticed his analysis post however has a song as well as Wilwa... evilish

Wilwa.... The lovely talented song writer...apparently... Songs always make me suspicious they always say "Look I'm fun keep me around" to me. evilish

Shasta... Some people post 'In-Character' Shasta posted as someone else entirely... Not liking that.

Inzil: Nothing to report on his one post.

Nerwen: To many times she slips under everyone's radar especially mine... I'll be watching you.

Sally: I give up. You're crazy random and ridiculous. I'm watching you too. I know your M.O. so I'll have at least an idea what to watch for.

Isabella: Throwing up a call for lynch in your first post is highly strange. You can pass it off as a joke later but I have a feeling we'll see you try to build a sturdy case against her. just laying the ground work for an innocent's death? Or are you a gifted with knowledge we don't have?

[Pitchwife]

*applauds Legate for bringing some reason into the game*
First, thumbs up for the War Pigs cover to TEW.
Seconded.
The point is, of course, that very well half of us might not be here anymore by toMorrow.
That would be the worst case scenario: 1 lynch + 2 Night-kills (one from each of the two packs) + supposing 2 of these 3 people are the Hunter and one of the Lovers, they each take 1 other person with them = 5 people dead. Not quite half the village, but appalling enough, to be sure.
It's like having a Werebear around, only worse, because we'll have to eradicate one entire pack of three in order to halve the bloodshed. Granted, with a little luck some of the Night-kills will hit wolves of the competing pack, but we'd better not count on the wolves to do our job for us.
I hope I understood it correctly, the revived people can be only Ordos and they will return as only Ordos?
The way I understood it, only innocents can be revived, and they'll be revived as ordos, whatever their previous role. (If only original ordos could be revived in the first place, there might not be any revival at all - this village seems to suffer from a remarkable shortage of them...)
Because - at last, a totally insignificant and totally unimportant note - should I be worried that nobody seems to worry about the fact that almost a half of the people in the village are Wolves?
Yes, you should. We all should.
Also, am I right, if a Unicorn dies on the first Day, the ability's wasted?).
If the WereUnicorn is Fenrised, then I'll wait until after the Nightkills to revive the person.
The same applies, I suppose, if the innocent Unicorn should be mislynched on Day1.

I think it a fair conclusion that joking about being evil on Day one, should net you a lynching!
After last game, I quite agree with that. To be fair, though, wilwa's song was about being pursued by wolves rather than being wolvish herself, so this is anything but evidence.

[Thinlómien]

Hi there people. Feels good to be back to ww. *grin* *stretches*

I'm still not entirely familiar with the rules, I confess, but as Legate said, the situation will start to make more sense toMorrow probably as then we will have seen the actions of one Night.

Inzy was a trial one for Inziladun's.. but I think Dun is the most popular one as of late I would say.
Although he is also called Zil or Inzil, don't forget that. ;)

maybe just, I hope I understood it correctly, the revived people can be only Ordos and they will return as only Ordos? I think that's pretty powerful tool in that case, and I guess there can be also pretty creative use for that, but most of all, I hope it will provide the balance needed.
I think also gifted can be revived but they'll just return as ordos... a revived seer would be quite an advantage for us! And in any case, the Unicorns are a way for us to get a few known innocents. But in any case the Unicorns need to die in order to revive somebody and they can both only die once (and the WereUnicorn will probably be rather unwilling to die I'd assume), so I wouldn't count too much on them.

In any case, this will be quite a game - lots of kills, revivals and ranger saves. *shrugs* It'll be confusing but hopefully fun! I still have to echo Legate's slight concern on the amount of evil people around. There's only 14 of us and 6 are wolves and 3 have loverish interests. So, as obvious as this kind of advice may sound, you should trust people even less than in an ordinary game.

I'm also trying to resettle my brain for the presence of two wolf packs. It's not that there can be wolves in different teams, but it's more like my personal sense of justice being insulted by the fact that the innocents' chance to win is 1/3 instead of 1/2. It does seem unfair, especially as we can't slaughter anybody at Night. I had issues with this already in Sauce's game years ago, if somebody remembers, so maybe I should just shut up and get used to it... :D

(But btw this means I will totally start screaming if somebody random votes, even on Day1. Seriously. We can't just waste votes in this game.)

My thoughts on people this far -

EW - seems slightly nervous and at loss as for what to say. I'd say the latter thing is suspicious, but then again, when he posted there really wasn't much to say. So maybe I should just trust him for at least trying to talk about something sensible early on. But I have to say that a recap with comments would've been more useful than just a recap.
Wilwa - nothing more than a song parody this far, so no conclusions from me.
Shasta - said he's here and reading, but didn't post anything after that. Why was that, asks I.
Zil - it's weird, when I first read his post it struck me as more sensible than most of the others that far, but now that I read it, I noticed it was just banter. Weird. Maybe he's using some black magic on my brain.
Sally - is the general chit chat, like always on Day1's. Doesn't mean she shouldn't post some sensible stuff too, though.
Izzy - gives me good vibes this far. No idea why since she didn't talk much more sense than anybody else. She makes an interesting point about Wilwa, but as the cobbler was removed from the rules, it doesn't make much sense.
Nerwen - LYNCH HER! Erm... *cough* No, she hasn't done anything yet, but given my most recent ww experiences and what I've gathered from the games that took place while I didn't play, we should lynch her just to be on the safe side. She always manages to fool me, and looks like I'm not the only one...
Legate - quite a wishy washy first post, even though I have to congratulate him for making the first real effort to start talking sense. He doesn't quite sit right with me, there's something odd in his manner. Or maybe I just haven't played with him for ages...
Morsul - is quick to draw conclusions, which would make me quite suspicious if it wasn't something I perceive as characteristic for him.

Where's Nogrod and his horde of arguments and no-nonsense? I miss him! :p


edit: xed with Pitch

[wilwarin538]

Wilwa planned to write that song days ago, before any roles were handed out.

OK. So I agree with what some said about how we shall have far more information tomorrow. And if each wolf pack chooses a hunter, and then the hunter chooses one of the Lovers, that's 5 people dying at Night. I know that's probably unlikely to happen, what with all the Rangers around and all. But still, we need to get wolves, because if we don't today, then by tomorrow they will likely make up half of the village. Which admittedly would increase our chances of lynching one, but still.

Question for the moddess: will we be notified when a wolf dies, of which pack they are from?

Cause that makes a difference, still not sure though which way would be smarter. I mean we could try to get rid of one wolf pack all at once to decrease the night kills, but then at the same time if we do that then we're helping the other wolf team because they can't win unless the other pack is gone. But then if we dwindle each wolf pack down it decreases their chance of winning, but we still will have 2 Night kills which sucks. Plus if we're not told their packs when they die then it's not like we could try to plan that out anyway. This double pack thing is whacky.

So I have to go eat a lot of food so that when the crazy lab people steal my blood I don't pass out. I will try to come on as soon as I get back, but I likely won't make sense until later in the day, because I'll probably be feeling a bit whoosey. Just warning you.

[Nogrod]

Where's Nogrod and his horde of arguments and no-nonsense?Well here, sadly without a bunch of arguments as I'm just quickly skimming this through between two meetings.

Well not too much to comment so far, but that Legate & Lommy are right about the direness of the situation. That doesn't make them innocent though by any means. Actually I'd say on the contrary...

I mean underlining or speculating about the little aids we have looks a bit fishy to me from experience. Wolves oftentimes like to point at that kind of things in the beginning just to look fine (like they were thinking of the situation from the innocent perspective).

But yeah, in a hurry now. Back later.


EDIT: X'd with Wilwa

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, a few things concerning the recent posts.

Morsul - I would once again strongly appeal on him not to act heedlessly, as he seems not to have changed much in his "fast jumps", like this:

Isabella: Throwing up a call for lynch in your first post is highly strange. You can pass it off as a joke later but I have a feeling we'll see you try to build a sturdy case against her. just laying the ground work for an innocent's death? Or are you a gifted with knowledge we don't have?

The way I saw it, it already was labeled as a joke by herself, so...?

Personally I don't get what's that people are saying about this all the time, for isn't that just random banter? I mean, what's the point here?? Like Lommy said:

as the cobbler was removed from the rules, it doesn't make much sense.

but then, why to say the first part of the sentence:

[Izzy] makes an interesting point about Wilwa, but as the cobbler was removed from the rules, it doesn't make much sense.

What's so interesting there then, I wonder (if you even dismiss it yourself).

After last game, I quite agree with that. To be fair, though, wilwa's song was about being pursued by wolves rather than being wolvish herself, so this is anything but evidence.
But okay, maybe I miss something that has happened in a previous game and that made this more of notice than it would be normally?

What more... I was worried at first somewhat by Pitchwife's post, I had the impression that it's applauding me too much. But then on the second reading, it did not seem to me like that anymore. Well, just to comment on that, my words about half of the village being dead by toMorrow was of course figurative speech, but of course, it is possible (though unlikely... I hope). I guess it all depends on the effectivity of the Ranger and the level of competition of the Wolf packs.

(But btw this means I will totally start screaming if somebody random votes, even on Day1. Seriously. We can't just waste votes in this game.)

This is a good remark, though. I suggest people really take this to their hearts. Well, at least it's not that the Wolves would want to go only all against the innocents - so it's not like six against eight when it comes to voting - but still, it isn't such a fun. Also, the votes of this Day have far more value in the sense that there is a far, far bigger chance to actually lynch a Wolf! So... this should actually not be any "relaxing Day".

By the way: just by mere numbers, AT LEAST THREE of the people who have posted this far MUST BE Wolves. From Morsul's post earlier on (Morsul's included), there must be at least one Wolf among the people posting. When one sees it like this it's actually quite scary.

EDIT: x-ed with wilwa and Nogrod

[Nogrod]

Wilwa, there is an easy answer to your question: let's get one pack down asap.

If there is anything like a choice (heh, like there would be) we should of course eliminate one team and bring the Night-kills down as soon as we can. "Helping" the other wolf-team is little compared to two Night kills.

The fact that you ask that makes me wonder your alignment though. To an innocent I think that is a selve-evident thing. (Yeah, the wolves can reduce the numbers of each other at Night as well, but we should not count on that to survive.

EDIT: X'd with Legate

[Morsul the Dark]

I know it's horrible I'm trying to get a feel for people isn't it the way I'm acting "heedlessly" by looking at what people said. Maybe I should do what everyone else does "So and so FEELS off"

Preliminary means what I've seen so far it's early yet I could change my mind.

[Nerwen]

Because - at last, a totally insignificant and totally unimportant note - should I be worried that nobody seems to worry about the fact that almost a half of the people in the village are Wolves? It looks at least sinister

I agree– and I also feel that there's been just a little too much joking around, even for Day One (yes, I'm including my own first post in that). However– some of the innocents may be trying trying to tread carefully, and maybe not look too innocent. Of course, the packs will need to go for each other, too, but I'd guess not this early.

Though, I haven't really been thinking it out properly... The dynamics of this game need more discussion, particularly insofar as they might affect how the wolves act. I am surprised there's been so little attention paid to that.

EW - seems slightly nervous and at loss as for what to say. I'd say the latter thing is suspicious, but then again, when he posted there really wasn't much to say.

He's posted quite a few times without really saying anything. However he hasn't played for a long time, so I don't know what to make of it.

Nerwen - LYNCH HER! Erm... *cough* No, she hasn't done anything yet, but given my most recent ww experiences and what I've gathered from the games that took place while I didn't play, we should lynch her just to be on the safe side.

Do you know, I guessed you were going to propose that? I'm actually quite flattered.:Merisu:

EDIT:X'd since Lommy (internet's slow at the moment).

[Nogrod]

still not sure though which way would be smarter. I mean we could try to get rid of one wolf pack all at once to decrease the night kills, but then at the same time if we do that then we're helping the other wolf team because they can't win unless the other pack is gone.By way of explaining my last one as I noticed I didn't do it in that post there above.

The bolded part is the one that raises my eyebrows. There is wolfpack A and wolfpack B - and there is no difference which one of them devours us. So as soon as we get our first wolf we need to hope for the next one being from the same pack, whichever of them it is. And then the third from the same pack. It doesn't matter which one it is. But the way you bring it up feels to me like it mattered to you Wilwa, like you saw it was kind of unfair if we in a way "helped" the other wolfpack.

It's a totally different thing whether we can make any deductions as to which lupine action points towards which possible combination of wolves to "direct" our lynches...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Question for the moddess: will we be notified when a wolf dies, of which pack they are from?

Cause that makes a difference, still not sure though which way would be smarter. I mean we could try to get rid of one wolf pack all at once to decrease the night kills, but then at the same time if we do that then we're helping the other wolf team because they can't win unless the other pack is gone. But then if we dwindle each wolf pack down it decreases their chance of winning, but we still will have 2 Night kills which sucks. Plus if we're not told their packs when they die then it's not like we could try to plan that out anyway. This double pack thing is whacky.

Good question in any case. However when it comes to "weeding out one pack", I think it wouldn't really work, for I don't think there is any way you can "select" - only in case you had, for example, Wolf X dead and Wolf Y dead and you knew each of them is from a different pack, and then you were thinking whether to lynch person W or person Z, and there's suspected link between person X and W and between person Y and Z... But you know, that's sort of constructed situation. I don't think, somehow, that we'd have such a liberty of choice very much. I think we'd be just happy to lynch whichever Wolf we can (not that we know anything for sure anyway until the person is lynched, unless we have a Seer-dream, that is).

Well not too much to comment so far, but that Legate & Lommy are right about the direness of the situation. That doesn't make them innocent though by any means. Actually I'd say on the contrary...

I mean underlining or speculating about the little aids we have looks a bit fishy to me from experience. Wolves oftentimes like to point at that kind of things in the beginning just to look fine (like they were thinking of the situation from the innocent perspective).

Okay, could not resist to say, "and Nogrod is doing the same" *points to the first sentence - circular argument* ;) But anyway, nice to see you around at last... (although I hoped for more...)

EDIT: x-ed with Morsul and Nerwen
EDITEDIT: And Nogrod!

[Pitchwife]

Following the time-hallowed tradition of looking for a wolf among the first three posters:

TEW (Ewie? Tewie?)
#3: says we're in big trouble, asks for a confession;
#8: 'confesses' he's not a wolf (big surprise!), song parody;
#10: does a not-awfully-helpful recap (to be fair, there really wasn't that much to comment on at the time);
#12 & 14: apologizes for gender confusion;
#16: thinks everybody is 'still neutral suspicionwise';
#18: disagrees with Izzy's suggestion to lynch wilwa for her song parody.
Conclusion so far: eager to play and posting quite a lot in terms of post count but not of actual content; most of it typical D1 early Morning banter (which is also true for everybody else up to that point), his last two posts show tender stirrings of actually playing. His obvious eagerness could simply be due to the fact that it's his first game in ages, or it could mean an excited wolf. Bears watching.

wilwa
#4: song parody (and some announcement about her future participation).
At the very worst, this can be considered buddying up to the Moddess, which is hardly a lynchworthy crime, especially as quite a lot of us have been guilty of it at times.
#25: gets around to some game-related posting, discusses the dynamics of dealing with two wolf-packs.
I have to concur with Nog's answer to this one. Whether or not we should halve the Night-kills if we can is not a question which should cause an innocent much headaches, especially not an experienced player like wilwa.
Conclusion so far: this last post does worry me - looks like contributing, but is really quite wishy-washy, confused and confusing. Most suspicious thing I've seen up to now.

Shasta
#6: obviously possessed by Nilp's spirit. I wonder if he'll take it to the point of voting himself.
Conclusion so far: the most enigmatic of this trio. 'Here and reading' but not really saying anything. Should go consult an exorcist.

Everybody else to follow by & by.

(x-ed with quite a few)

[Thinlómien]

Pitchwife seems somehow too careful for my taste. I don't know, maybe it's that he's so serious. Although, I wonder if certain moroseness should be a sign of innocence in this game as our future views aren't very cheerful... :rolleyes: But since Nogrod rebuked me for being gloomy, I'd like to say what I apparently left unsaid before: it's not like we have an impossible situation. I trust our Moddess when she said she's done try-outs for the setting, so it can't be too unfair. We should have that darn 1/3 chance to win. ;)

I agree with Nogrod that the solution to Wilwa's question is easy. Once we catch a wolf, we should go for those who look like his/her packmates so we can lessen the horrible killing rate. Although of course we still shouldn't ignore other people who look wolvish.

I'm actually quite pessimistic towards the killing speed, because we need to lynch three wolves to get less kills and they all need to be of the same pack. Not an easy feat. Let's just hope we have a brilliant ranger.

What's so interesting there then, I wonder (if you even dismiss it yourself).Well, it would've been a handy way of hinting something at wolves, but as I checked the roles for cobbler, it stopped making sense because there is now no one who would profit from sending any messages to the wolves. (I guess lovers wouldn't do that either...?)

I agree– and I also feel that there's been just a little too much joking around, even for Day One (yes, I'm including my own first post in that). I wouldn't say there's been too much joking, just maybe that there's been too little substance. There haven't been too many posts yet in total. And we also have still half of the Day left.

Though, I haven't really been thinking it out properly... The dynamics of this game need more discussion, particularly insofar as they might affect how the wolves act. I am surprised there's been so little attention paid to that. Right you are. I'm finding it difficult to settle my brain to the werewolf mode, let alone a two-pack werewolf mode. Once I have a bit more time at some point, I will think a little deeper about how the existence of another pack might affect the wolves' behaviour. The first thing that comes to mind is that I guess it would make sense for them to hunt each other during the Days and innocents during the Nights, or that's at least what I'd do if I was them. Anyway, that leads to the unpleasant fact that somebody who a) makes good cases against people and seems to put effort to finding wolves or b) gets a wolf lynched isn't necessarily innocent.


edit: xed with Pitch

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

TEW (Ewie? Tewie?)
Chewie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca).

But since Nogrod rebuked me for being gloomy, I'd like to say what I apparently left unsaid before: it's not like we have an impossible situation. I trust our Moddess when she said she's done try-outs for the setting, so it can't be too unfair. We should have that darn 1/3 chance to win. ;)

Let me add something cheerful for counter-balance. Another possibility is - and not probably much more improbable than the worst scenario, if not even the same - that e.g. we lynch a Wolf toDay, it's a HunterWolf, who kills another Wolf from the rival pack, then the packs kill each one Wolf from the other Pack at Night, and we will have two packs of one Wolf the following Day, and no innocent dead. Or something like that.

Speaking of that, it occured to me: what will happen if there were, say, two last remaining Wolves (from different packs), and they attacked each other at Night? Will they kill each other? ;)

Otherwise: a few comments to the previous posts.
I know it's horrible I'm trying to get a feel for people isn't it the way I'm acting "heedlessly" by looking at what people said. Maybe I should do what everyone else does "So and so FEELS off"

Preliminary means what I've seen so far it's early yet I could change my mind.

Okay, point taken. It was just more like that you were being suspicious of something which, by how it looks, does not give reasons for suspicion by itself (not the way you said it anyway). Of course you're free to suspect whomever you want to on whatever grounds you want to...

I am mightily scared of Nerwen. Really. And given the general amount of Wolves, it isn't that far-fetched to think she might be one of them, is it...

And Nogrod makes good remarks in relation to wilwa's words... however... I cannot shake the feeling that it might be intentional action (albeit on good grounds) from a Wolf as well.

Pitchwife seems somehow too careful for my taste. I don't know, maybe it's that he's so serious.

PW seems too unserious to my taste (after the last post, of course) - which could be interpretated as careful too. In the last post: it's like saying something basically without saying much concrete, a bit like a "toy-post", to do something.

Anyway, that leads to the unpleasant fact that somebody who a) makes good cases against people and seems to put effort to finding wolves or b) gets a wolf lynched isn't necessarily innocent.

That, if nothing else, is a good remark too.

But now off for a while! (Or longer...)

[Inziladun]

No no no, you're right about Inziladun. *pets you* Unless he had a horrible accident this weekend (that I wouldn't even want to know about!) he is in fact a guy. Isabellkya, however, is a girl. *snuggles them both* Easy enough to make such mistakes, so don't fret, k?

Thanks for clearing that up. Much as I like Isabelkya, the two of us are not interchangeable. ;)

The way I understood it, only innocents can be revived, and they'll be revived as ordos, whatever their previous role. (If only original ordos could be revived in the first place, there might not be any revival at all - this village seems to suffer from a remarkable shortage of them..

I thought the revived could be given any of the dead's roles. Am I wrong there?

There is wolfpack A and wolfpack B - and there is no difference which one of them devours us. So as soon as we get our first wolf we need to hope for the next one being from the same pack, whichever of them it is. And then the third from the same pack. It doesn't matter which one it is. But the way you bring it up feels to me like it mattered to you Wilwa, like you saw it was kind of unfair if we in a way "helped" the other wolfpack.

That's an interesting observation about Wilwa. I'll keep it in mind.

I agree with Nogrod that the solution to Wilwa's question is easy. Once we catch a wolf, we should go for those who look like his/her packmates so we can lessen the horrible killing rate. Although of course we still shouldn't ignore other people who look wolvish.

I'm actually quite pessimistic towards the killing speed, because we need to lynch three wolves to get less kills and they all need to be of the same pack. Not an easy feat. Let's just hope we have a brilliant ranger.

Looking for associations is always worthwhile. Unfortunately, I think nailing wolves in succession from the same pack is going to be more a matter of luck than deduction. With so many wolves running around, there's going to be a lot to process, and I also think it may be easier for them to avoid links to one another.

x/d with Legate

[Nerwen]

The bolded part is the one that raises my eyebrows. There is wolfpack A and wolfpack B - and there is no difference which one of them devours us. So as soon as we get our first wolf we need to hope for the next one being from the same pack, whichever of them it is. And then the third from the same pack. It doesn't matter which one it is. But the way you bring it up feels to me like it mattered to you Wilwa, like you saw it was kind of unfair if we in a way "helped" the other wolfpack.

That is indeed a highly peculiar thing to say. Though, you'd think a Wolfwa would be more careful.

But Wilwa's ill, it seems. At least she's having blood tests, anyway. Which might make an ill-considered remark more likely– for an innocent as well as a wolf.

Although, I wonder if certain moroseness should be a sign of innocence in this game as our future views aren't very cheerful...

*cough* Getting a little close to the "If I were a wolf I'd do X but look I'm doing Y" type of argument, no?

I'm finding it difficult to settle my brain to the werewolf mode, let alone a two-pack werewolf mode. Once I have a bit more time at some point, I will think a little deeper about how the existence of another pack might affect the wolves' behaviour. The first thing that comes to mind is that I guess it would make sense for them to hunt each other during the Days and innocents during the Nights, or that's at least what I'd do if I was them. Anyway, that leads to the unpleasant fact that somebody who a) makes good cases against people and seems to put effort to finding wolves or b) gets a wolf lynched isn't necessarily innocent.

A good point. It's a little like the situation when you have a Werebear– the wolves (and cobblers) are often such eager and helpful bear-hunters that the village starts trusting them.

EDIT:X'd since Lommy again.
EDIT2: Took out sentence about Wilwa– misunderstood quote.

[Pitchwife]

But still, we need to get wolves, because if we don't today, then by tomorrow they will likely make up half of the village. Which admittedly would increase our chances of lynching one, but still.
I was going to say all that increases is our chances of getting eaten, but now that I think of it, I have another Question to the Moddess:
What happens if both packs together equal or outnumber the innocents? Do they devour the innocents jointly before turning against each other (as I'd assumed), or does one of the packs have to outnumber the innocents by themselves?

Pitchwife seems somehow too careful for my taste.
What else is new?...:rolleyes:
Well, it would've been a handy way of hinting something at wolves, but as I checked the roles for cobbler, it stopped making sense because there is now no one who would profit from sending any messages to the wolves. (I guess lovers wouldn't do that either...?)
Remembering Mira's game, there's not much I'd put beyond a Lover couple determined to win... But maybe not at this early point.
And just out of curiosity, what would you say should a WW-themed song parody be about in order not to be construed as hinting to the wolves?

[Kitanna]

But the way you bring it up feels to me like it mattered to you Wilwa, like you saw it was kind of unfair if we in a way "helped" the other wolfpack.
Wilwa does make a point we'd be helping the second wolfpack by getting rid of the first since Pack A can't win until Pack B is gone. However, I'll have to go with the sentiment that "a wolf is a wolf" at this point. We have to lynch one before we can put him/her into a team. Still, I don't see this as a real sign against Wilwa.

That is indeed a highly peculiar thing to say. Though, you'd think a Wolfwa would be more careful. I refreshed my page and I could have sworn there was more to this quote. Something about how it looked like Wilwa was advising us not to lynch wolves, but it seems to have disappeared. *stares suspiciously at Nerwen*

[Nerwen]

I refreshed my page and I could have sworn there was more to this quote. Something about how it looked like Wilwa was advising us not to lynch wolves, but it seems to have disappeared.

Yep. I re-read it and realised she wasn't saying that, at least. Should have made a note about the edit– I'll do it now.

[Pitchwife]

Continuing in order of appearance:

Zil
#7: the post that Lommy said looked reasonable but was really just banter. Which it was.
#36: thanks sally for clearing up Tewie's confusion about him and Izzy; thinks the revived could be given any of the dead's roles (this was cleared up on the Admin thread, go read); comments on Nog's 'interesting observation' about wilwa ('helping the other wolf-pack'); comments on Lommy about game dynamics, thinks getting rid on one pack in a row will be a matter of luck (which it is).
Conclusion so far: rather guarded, mostly commenting on things others said, which is not untypical for him early in the game; would be nice to hear some opinions about other people, though.

sally
#9, 11, 13, 15: dreams of eloping with Shasta Nilphreduin, some clearing up of gender & other confusion, all in all typical early D1 sallyness.
Conclusion so far: None.

Izzy
#17: suggests lynching wilwa for song parody about paper communication w/ wolves. (Which I'm assuming was joking.)
#20: elaborates her last saying to lynch anybody for joking about being evil on D1, especially wilwa.
And that's it.
Conclusion so far: jokingly suggests lynching people for jokes. I expect her to get serious when she returns & am curious whether she's going to suspect wilwa seriously (as Morsul seems to think).

Nerwen
#19: finds Tewie suspicious for not suspecting anyone (more joking).
#30: serious responses to Legate and Lommy, asks for more discussion of game dynamics, thinks some of the innocents may try not to look too innocent (meaning the gifteds, I suppose);
#37: thinks wilwa would be more careful if wolvish (referring to #25 and Nog's comment on it); agrees w/ Lommy that wolves may try to earn our trust by making cases against competing wolves.
#40: acknowledges an edit in her last, after Kit pointed it out.
Conclusion so far: like Zil, she's mostly commenting on others' posts; her comments look sensible and balanced, but she's been a terribly effective sensible wolf in the past and needs watching.
What really gives me pause is that last one - I'd have thought editing the actual content of your posts (other than typos and formatting) was an absolute no-no in WW?? Good catch, Kit.

To be continued...

[Nerwen]

What really gives me pause is that last one - I'd have thought editing the actual content of your posts (other than typos and formatting) was an absolute no-no in WW??

Yes. Like I said, I should have noted it, but I was feeling too lazy to explain, so I just marked it as an x-post with Lommy. I'd prefer this not to be blown out of proportion.

Anyway, I'm going to bed, now. It's late, even for a night-owl like me.

[Pitchwife]

Continuing (still in order of appearance, and coming to some of the loudmouths now, so this is getting longer)

Legate
#21: is concerned about the amount of killings to expect and the percentage of wolves in the village, ponders the mechanics of revivals;
#27: appeals to Morsul not to be heedless, doesn't get people's reactions to Izzy's post about wilwa's song*, is worried whether I applauded him too much or not, agrees w/ Lommy that we can't afford to waste votes;
#32: comments on wilwa's # 25 that weeding out one pack won't work except by luck, retorts to Nog's remark about him and Lommy;
#35: says the situation is not quite as dire as it looked, for Hunter kills may work for us; accepts Morsul's defense against accusation of heedlessness; is scared of Nerwen (who isn't?); says Nog makes good remarks about wilwa but may have furry motives; thinks my #33 was too unserious and 'toy-posting'; agrees w/ Lommy about the same point as Nerwen in #37.
Conclusion so far (at the risk of applauding too much once again): looks reasonable & constructive, makes some good comments on game dynamics; valuable if innocent, and no reason for me to think otherwise yet.

Morsul
#22: a list ! Tewie and wilwa 'evilish' for posting song parodies, not liking Shasta for posting as Nilp, nothing on Zil, watching Nerwen and sally, suspects Izzy for joking lynch suggestion (all this admittedly preliminary);
#29: defends himself against Legate who said he was acting heedlessly.
Conclusion so far: typical Morsul. I see where Legate's remark about him was coming from, but let's give Morsul some credit - that was one of the first posts that actually made an attempt at playing, and the very first to throw out some suspicions with reasons (however improvised) instead of banter.

Lommy next. That'll take some time...

*PS for Legate's enlightenment: Nerwen's first post last game started with 'Yay! Go wolves!', while wilwa was all bouncy optimism how good it looked for the village; both were wolves, and they won.

[Thinlómien]

Lommy next. That'll take some time...Hey! Unfair! You have already made five posts, I have only two. You are the loudmouth here. :p

Legate and Pitchwife are both looking better now, but I still don't trust them. Nerwen seems genuinely innocent, which doesn't point at anything. Nogrod looks quite good too even though poor him is busy. I'm also quite liking Zil and Kit's recent posts. The problem is, it's very unlikely they're all good and innocent. Falling back to my old "oh no, I don't suspect anyone" habit, I guess... Not nice.

Where's Boro, btw? And I'd also like to hear more from Shasta and EW, but I guess I just have to wait patiently as all the gentlemen are American... (timezones)

I can already say this won't be an easy Day for decisions... :rolleyes: I guess I could just be nice towards Ewie and Kit - if they don't do anything too suspicious - since he is playing first time after a long time and the second has been incredibly many times wrongfully lynched on Day1 and I've always been in the bandwagon... But other than that, not much inclinations either way yet.

[Pitchwife]

Lommy:
#24: answers Legate about revival mechanics, agrees with his concern about the number of wolves, is worried by the presence of two packs, warns against wasting votes and voting random (good point); gives a list of impressions so far (which I won't recap here, because most of it is just either/or);
#34: thinks I'm too careful/serious, agrees with Nog about wilwa's question in #25, is pessimistic about the killing speed; wilwa's song not a cobbler hint as there is no cobbler; agrees w/ Nerwen's call for discussion of game mechanics and offers some ideas, which I'd like to comment on:
The first thing that comes to mind is that I guess it would make sense for them [i.e. the two wolf packs, Pw.]to hunt each other during the Days and innocents during the Nights, or that's at least what I'd do if I was them.
This sounds completely plausible to me - getting rival wolves lynched will help them gain our trust while they go on eating us under cover of the Night. But then -
Anyway, that leads to the unpleasant fact that somebody who a) makes good cases against people and seems to put effort to finding wolves or b) gets a wolf lynched isn't necessarily innocent.
Both Legate (who called it a 'good remark') and Nerwen agreed with this; and it's true, of course. But what exactly is the point of stating it? In other words, is there any conclusion to be drawn from this warning that will be in any way helpful, other than that we should mistrust those who make good cases and put effort into finding wolves? In that case, whom should we trust, or rather, on what basis should we decide whom to trust? Or shouldn't we trust anybody at all? Thanks, I think we knew that to begin with...
Conclusion so far: two lengthy posts that sound reasonable enough, but most of it is actually general remarks about the situation and being wavery about people, looking more helpful than she really is (especially that last point I've just commented on).

EDIT: x-ed with Lommy's last.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, just a short sum-up for now:

Worried about:

Pitchwife - rather "safe" list-posts and the fact that he applauds me so much (yes, again... *sigh* sorry), as I have said earlier. It's sort of irrational thing, but I am mightily scared that something about it isn't just right. And given the amount of Wolves, the chance is pretty big that he might be one.

Also when re-reading, I became worried about TEWie-Sally and such discussions in the beginning... I mean "happy band of Wolves goes to picnic, what will we do in the first hours of Day 1 when nothing much is happening, let's have a chat". Of course, that would mean that they would have to be packmates.

Hard to say:

Nogrod
Nerwen - she is "slightly reasonable", but somewhat careful-ish. Well, as if one could catch Nerwolf on basis of something.

Not worried about:

Lommy - for some reason, not looking like her Wolfish self.
Morsul - looking like his innocent self (although that said, I haven't been playing with him for some time, so he might have "developed").

Otherwise not much ideas about:
Kitanna
Inziladun
Boro (not appeared yet)
Wilwa
Shasta
Isabellkya

In relation to some of the later named, and also to Sally and TEWie (in other words: the people who chatted here at the beginning of the Day), I'd like to see more posting from them. Of course it's probably a timezone-thing, but that means that likely by the time they appear my activity will already be on the decline. So hope to see them posting still.

(sort of half-xed with Lommy and x-ed with Pitchwife )

[wilwarin538]

So turns out my body highly disagrees with having 3 viles of blood forcefully removed from it, so if nothing I say here makes sense, pleace forgive me as I've been trying not to faint for the last hour...

Wilwa, there is an easy answer to your question: let's get one pack down asap.

If there is anything like a choice (heh, like there would be) we should of course eliminate one team and bring the Night-kills down as soon as we can. "Helping" the other wolf-team is little compared to two Night kills.

The fact that you ask that makes me wonder your alignment though. To an innocent I think that is a selve-evident thing. (Yeah, the wolves can reduce the numbers of each other at Night as well, but we should not count on that to survive.




The bolded part is the one that raises my eyebrows. There is wolfpack A and wolfpack B - and there is no difference which one of them devours us. So as soon as we get our first wolf we need to hope for the next one being from the same pack, whichever of them it is. And then the third from the same pack. It doesn't matter which one it is. But the way you bring it up feels to me like it mattered to you Wilwa, like you saw it was kind of unfair if we in a way "helped" the other wolfpack.

It's a totally different thing whether we can make any deductions as to which lupine action points towards which possible combination of wolves to "direct" our lynches...



I agree with Nogrod that the solution to Wilwa's question is easy. Once we catch a wolf, we should go for those who look like his/her packmates so we can lessen the horrible killing rate. Although of course we still shouldn't ignore other people who look wolvish.



Ok.

So what I was trying to say was yes we want to get a whole pack gone as soon as possble because we want to stop the double night kills, BUT one pack can't win unless the other pack is gone, so in effect by getting rid of one, yes we'll be helping ourselves, but we'll also be making the other pack's lives a bit easier.
(Nog, I don't think it's unfair, I just don't want to help the wolves out)

Now if you do the math we have a good chance of lynching a wolf, but the wolf packs also have a good chance of night killing a wolf from the other pack. Also with 3 rangers it could easily decrease the night kills. So it could turn out that maybe every Night we won't even have 2 deaths, just from maybe the packs choosing the same person, or the ranger interfering, or whatnot. So bringing down each pack to 1 or 2 each would make it far harder for them to win, than having one pack at 3 and getting rid of the other pack completely.

Is my mind just weird, cause this seems to make a lot of sense to me.

And yes, obviously it's hard to know which pack wolves are from anyway, so probably what I was saying is irrelevant since there is really no way to know which pack a wolf is from til it's dead. And even that we haven't had confirmed yet. I was just trying to get discussions started, which obviously worked....

But Wilwa's ill, it seems. At least she's having blood tests, anyway.

Yes, the tests are because it seems likely that I have some sort of illness.

So I just typed that whole thing mostly with my left hand, cause my right arm is kind of dead and crazy sore, so I have to stop now. Plus I have lots of homework. I'll be back on later though after I get some sugar in me.

x'ed with Legate

[satansaloser2005]

K, I just have to get this out now so I can get it out of my head and make a proper post.



The next person who says something to the effect of "Sally was nice and friendly earlier toDay, she must be hiding something evil" gets my vote. I've not played with Elf before, he made a mistake (which again, was understandable), and I was trying to both introduce myself and clear up said misunderstanding. Who here doesn't do that to new kids/returning lovelies? Conspiracy? I think so!

In other news, I ain't trying this game, at least not like I did last time. I got suspected for trying too hard so if I'm going to be in trouble either way I'm not going to waste hours I could spend doing something productive doing an analysi post Having said that, I'll still be semi-active. Just not a lot of wordy brain power.


And now I'm going to go look through stuff and see what opinions I'm forming. K?


:D



ETA: Oh, and Wilwa? *hands lots of cookies, hugs tightly* Poor dear. :(

[The Elf-warrior]

Ok, I've read through the thread. I personally think that a wolf wouldn't have the nerve to edit the actual content of a post after posting without a note. So, I guess I'm turning Nerwen's bad conduct into a sign of innocence. Still, that's my opinion on the matter.

I think Wilwa's remark about not wanting to help out the other team is not suspicious. Her explantation satisfies me.


Also when re-reading, I became worried about TEWie-Sally and such discussions in the beginning... I mean "happy band of Wolves goes to picnic, what will we do in the first hours of Day 1 when nothing much is happening, let's have a chat".


What is happy about confusing Inzildun with Isabellkya?


EW - seems slightly nervous and at loss as for what to say.


Fair enough description of me.

Actually, Sally, we have played together before in Werewolf XLVI.Then again, I barely participated in that game. I was an innocent in that game, but let's just say I did a bad job.

[satansaloser2005]

Actually, Sally, we have played together before in Werewolf XLVI.Then again, I barely participated in that game. I was an innocent in that game, but let's just say I did a bad job.


Ah, right you are. Sorry, that was ages ago and I don't think I played much in that game either. Still, I didn't remember you and was trying to be friendly, that's all. *whispers* They're onto us. Stop talking to me before they sort it out.


:Merisu:

[Boromir88]

Where's Boro, btw?


Student teaching darling, which is why I asked about the DL. During the week, I'm completely unavailabe until well pretty much now. Then finishing up any extra work, settling down...etc. But the 9 pm DL gives me 4-5 hours to catch up, post and do all that jazz, which I'll be starting on...now.

Although with the time zone differences, I guess this means we won't have much time together? :p 'Tis a pity.

[Pitchwife]

So what I was trying to say was yes we want to get a whole pack gone as soon as possble because we want to stop the double night kills, BUT one pack can't win unless the other pack is gone, so in effect by getting rid of one, yes we'll be helping ourselves, but we'll also be making the other pack's lives a bit easier.
(Nog, I don't think it's unfair, I just don't want to help the wolves out)
And what exactly would you say we should do in order to avoid helping the wolves out, or what else is the point of all this? OK, you started a discussion, but you don't seem to be thinking straight in my opinion. I'm considering your bad health, however - so get some food & rest, and we'll see.:)

And now, last not least:
Nog
#26: Legate & Lommy right about dire situation, but not necessarily innocent;
#28: answer's wilwa's question in the by-now-famous #25, wonders about her alignment because of it (as did I there & then);
#31: further comments on said post of wilwa's and her apparent concern about us 'helping the other wolf team'.
Conclusion so far: quieter than usual (which was to be expected, as we know he's busy); other than that, nothing out of the ordinary, except that he hasn't yet suspected me for being too careful (but Legate and Lommy are taking care of that).

Speaking of which - is it just me, or are our two L's agreeing quite a lot with each other (peppered with some occasional casual distancing)? And Nerwen with both of them?

[satansaloser2005]

Boro, stop flirting. That's my job. ;)

*scampers off to continue her 'proper' post*

[Nogrod]

I just don't want to help the wolves outSo do you think we should refrain ourselves from lynching wolves as lynching a wolf from pack A is "helping" pack B? :rolleyes:

But this one then?
Now if you do the math we have a good chance of lynching a wolf, but the wolf packs also have a good chance of night killing a wolf from the other pack. Also with 3 rangers it could easily decrease the night kills. So it could turn out that maybe every Night we won't even have 2 deaths, just from maybe the packs choosing the same person, or the ranger interfering, or whatnot. So bringing down each pack to 1 or 2 each would make it far harder for them to win, than having one pack at 3 and getting rid of the other pack completely.First of all, I agree that you have a point there I hadn't quite thought of - if the rules state that each wolf-group needs to win individually (so the total numbers of wolves are not weighed against the innocents), which I think they need to do. So getting rid of even one from the other team would be good indeed.

And saying this now like the N'th time: it is more or less impossible to target any suspicious looking person to belong to an exact wolfteam so all this discussion of whether or not to pursue one team or both is more or less academic for now. Sure. It might be different in the later Days though.

But.

What do you mean wilwa with that bolded part there? Are you saying that it is a positive thing that there are two wolf-rangers who can protect their mates from the rivalling team's attacks? Isn't that just the contrary and one more reason to get rid of one whole team asap.?


Okay. Enough.

I'll go back doing some re-reading..


EDIT: X'd with Pitch and Sally

[Inziladun]

I'm in the middle of my work day after taking some time off (read: mountain of work) , so I'm trying to look in every so often and see what's going on.

Let's see...some early thoughts:

Morsul- seemed fairly in character with his first post, but then his reaction to faint criticism of it felt a little defensive.

Nerwen- is never one to take for granted. I don't necessarily read anything into that post edit people are concerned about. I think everyone's probably caught themselves making a error in quoting someone at some time or another.

Legate- Hmm. Lots of posting. A couple of things stand out.

I am mightily scared of Nerwen. Really. And given the general amount of Wolves, it isn't that far-fetched to think she might be one of them, is it...

In his very next post:

Okay, just a short sum-up for now:

Worried about:

Pitchwife - rather "safe" list-posts and the fact that he applauds me so much (yes, again... *sigh* sorry), as I have said earlier. It's sort of irrational thing, but I am mightily scared that something about it isn't just right. And given the amount of Wolves, the chance is pretty big that he might be one.

Also when re-reading, I became worried about TEWie-Sally and such discussions in the beginning... I mean "happy band of Wolves goes to picnic, what will we do in the first hours of Day 1 when nothing much is happening, let's have a chat". Of course, that would mean that they would have to be packmates.

Hard to say:

Nogrod
Nerwen - she is "slightly reasonable", but somewhat careful-ish. Well, as if one could catch Nerwolf on basis of something.

Not worried about:

Lommy - for some reason, not looking like her Wolfish self.
Morsul - looking like his innocent self (although that said, I haven't been playing with him for some time, so he might have "developed").

Otherwise not much ideas about:
Kitanna
Inziladun
Boro (not appeared yet)
Wilwa
Shasta
Isabellkya

Nerwen- has accountably moved from someone of whom he was 'mightily scared', to 'slightly reasonable' and 'careful-ish'; he'd placed her in the 'Hard To Say' category.
Also, was Pitch really 'applauding' you? I haven't really seen any over the top 'buttering up' of you, or anything of that nature.

Pitch- Mr. Agreeable, himself. Fairly involved. Nothing to key in on at the moment.

Izzy- Nothing since early banter.

Wilwa- That remark about helping one wolf team get rid of the other was odd. I don't see how we can possibly know who belongs to what pack anyway, even if the pack indentities are given when a wolf dies. Can we really single out wolves as belonging to one pack or another? Not unless one has some inside info. Still, having blood drawn is assignable to Mordor, and I personally don't do well with needles, so I don't know if I can vote for her toDay.

Kit- Nothing of note.

TEW- Early banter, and a recent appearance. Not much to go on, and the fact that I've never played with him before doesn't help.

Sally- Solidly Sallyish.

The next person who says something to the effect of "Sally was nice and friendly earlier toDay, she must be hiding something evil" gets my vote. I've not played with Elf before, he made a mistake (which again, was understandable), and I was trying to both introduce myself and clear up said misunderstanding. Who here doesn't do that to new kids/returning lovelies? Conspiracy? I think so!

In other news, I ain't trying this game, at least not like I did last time. I got suspected for trying too hard so if I'm going to be in trouble either way I'm not going to waste hours I could spend doing something productive doing an analysi post Having said that, I'll still be semi-active. Just not a lot of wordy brain power.


So you don't mind if we lynch you for being a submarine? ;)

And Nog- Some decent points earlier. Nothing evil looking, at any rate. I've learned to my sorrow that the more I trust him, the more likely he is to be a wolf though. It doesn't do to take him for granted.

Boro- Who?

Which leaves Lommy- Active. Maybe a little 'Captain Obvious' stuff, but nothing radar-pinging.

EDIT-Took me a while to type. X/d with Sally and Nog. Also added Boro

[satansaloser2005]

*giggles at Dun* Nope, not at all. As long as you're wearing a dress at the time. ;)

(Sorry, I couldn't resist! Meep.)

Erm, something personal came up, so I had to desert my computer for a while. Sorry. But I'm back now and can finish up that post.



Is it just me, or do several people look like they're trying too hard to be important?

[Nogrod]

Thinking will clearly help more than reading at this point - like Nerwen's call for thinking about the dynamics. Somehow re-reading wasn't that productive.

There was one thing though that did raise my eyebrows and it was that Nerwen editing things -issue. What bothers me there is that - and I know this from experience - a wolf is usually more conscious and more interested on every possible angle others might read her posts and thus is more prone to make such changes when realising a possibly bad wording or suspicious-looking point, or just coming to second thoughts whether that point was something one should make.

And even if editing content surely is a no-no in a werewolf-game, it is a matter of the grey-area whether it is editing in the strong sense if you're around alone and manage to make that extra change before the site makes that "last edited by..." text to the end of the post. It's like having not just yet pushed the send -button...

But the fact that Nerwen was willing to make that change and not acknowledging it in public - not wishing to fex. make just a new post entertaining the issue anew - does look peculiar.

[Inziladun]

But the fact that Nerwen was willing to make that change and not acknowledging it in public - not wishing to fex. make just a new post entertaining the issue anew - does look peculiar.

You have a point, and I'm not at all convinced Nerwen's innocent. Still, I don't know that I can vote for her based only on that.

[satansaloser2005]

Thinking will clearly help more than reading at this point - like Nerwen's call for thinking about the dynamics. Somehow re-reading wasn't that productive.

There was one thing though that did raise my eyebrows and it was that Nerwen editing things -issue. What bothers me there is that - and I know this from experience - a wolf is usually more conscious and more interested on every possible angle others might read her posts and thus is more prone to make such changes when realising a possibly bad wording or suspicious-looking point, or just coming to second thoughts whether that point was something one should make.

And even if editing content surely is a no-no in a werewolf-game, it is a matter of the grey-area whether it is editing in the strong sense if you're around alone and manage to make that extra change before the site makes that "last edited by..." text to the end of the post. It's like having not just yet pushed the send -button...

But the fact that Nerwen was willing to make that change and not acknowledging it in public - not wishing to fex. make just a new post entertaining the issue anew - does look peculiar.


Fair enough, but I've done the same thing both as an innocent and as a wolf. If I realize I've made a mistake I fix it right away, and if I don't think anyone has noticed I just don't say anything about it because it's easier, or I just plain forget to add that 'edit' at the end. Regardless of her role, it's likely the same with Nerwen.

Surprisingly, however, you put more effort into that accusation (or whatever you'd like to call it) than I think an innocent Nog would do. Speaking of peculiar....:rolleyes:


EDIT: x'd with Dun

[Boromir88]

Boro, stop flirting. That's my job. ;)


Sorry, love, can't fight the moonlight? :p

Some dynamics to consider. Both wolf packs have a seer, making a fake reveal inevitable, as well as easily convincing and more believable.

Both packs being in competition have a ying and a yang. They are threats to eachother and want to kill the others probably just as badly as they want to kill innocents. But then, they can use that to their advantage by looking more innocent to us.

I don't get the doomsday, direness though. Ok, 6 wolves have to die instead of 3 or 4. That's more challenging. But it will be just as difficult for the individual pack to win, because their really is no benefit in having another competing pack. It's like how I don't get why we assume the werebear and wolves would work together? Only instead of just 1 lone bear, there are 3 opposing wolves each pack has to worry about. And there are 2 seers each pack of 3 have to worry about.

[satansaloser2005]

Sorry, love, can't fight the moonlight? :p

:eek:

Some dynamics to consider. Both wolf packs have a seer, making a fake reveal inevitable, as well as easily convincing and more believable.

Both packs being in competition have a ying and a yang. They are threats to eachother and want to kill the others probably just as badly as they want to kill innocents. But then, they can use that to their advantage by looking more innocent to us.

I don't get the doomsday, direness though. Ok, 6 wolves have to die instead of 3 or 4. That's more challenging. But it will be just as difficult for the individual pack to win, because their really is no benefit in having another competing pack. It's like how I don't get why we assume the werebear and wolves would work together? Only instead of just 1 lone bear, there are 3 opposing wolves each pack has to worry about. And there are 2 seers each pack of 3 have to worry about.


Good points here, dear. I mean the wolves are in just as much trouble as we are. To me the people who are playing Chicken Little look bad, because they're making people panic and when people panic they make mistakes. Is that what they want, perhaps? I mean seriously. Why make it seem so bad for the innocents, when really it's just as bad for the wolves and they're in even bigger trouble than we are? I'm just sayin', it seems like tactical fear mongering, not actual concern.

EDIT: split up the quote because I'd forgotten to do so prior to actually posting

[Boromir88]

But the fact that Nerwen was willing to make that change and not acknowledging it in public - not wishing to fex. make just a new post entertaining the issue anew - does look peculiar.

I side with what Nerwen said in #42. Don't make a mountain out of a mole-hill with the editting. It's questionable sportsmanship to use meta reasoning and speculation as to what and why someone was editting.

Nerwen said "yep, that's right Kit," gave an explanation. Let's leave it at that.

[satansaloser2005]

Also, about the reveals. Erm, there's three seers out there. Even I would try a reveal at some point if I was one of the wolf seers and had good dreams to go off of. (It's irrelevant, but I almost wish I were a wolf so I could do it lol.)

That being said, I don't think we should trust our seer. I mean we should, but even a wolf seer could hand over wolves (of course from the other pack, but still) and we'd never know the difference.

A plan of attack needs to be made for any reveals later on in the game. I'd say toDay or toMorrow is the Day to do it, as toDay we're not going to have a lot to go on (and it gives us something, as well as enhancing discussion) and toMorrow we'll have a Night's events to go from.

Perhaps I'm being a bit too paranoid. But I don't think it's possible in this game. :p


EDIT: x'd with Boro. And I agree.

[Boromir88]

Perhaps I'm being a bit too paranoid. But I don't think it's possible in this game. :p


Maybe a bit paranoid, but just a bit. :p

I mean if someone says "Don't lynch Morsul, Pitch is a wolf!" I don't think we have much of a choice other than to listen. But, I see what you're saying when you say "don't trust our seer."

Our seer is in a rather difficult position, because with the amount of wolves, it's not like he can stick his head out at any first fake seer reveal. Also, as you said the wolf packs with their own seer can easily look believable, and just because whoever is claiming to be the seer's info turns out accurate, doesn't mean we should automatically trust that person as the innocent seer.

However, if we're fortunate the wolf pack will fear the wolf-seer just as much as the innocent seer and want to get rid of the opposing wolf-seer quickly too. That should cause wariness in any wolf claiming to be the seer, because the other pack could just kill him that night....but then again there are ranger-wolves, which provides a different niche. Ah! Brain now hurting.

[Kitanna]

I have forty minutes to read the thread, make my decision, and vote. Ugh, work days.

My first thought (and I should have mentioned it earlier) goes make to what Nogrod said in regards to Wilwa. After he highlighted her little bit about "helping" one team by destroying the other, I found it interesting both Nerwen and Inziladun commented on it. On Inziladun's part it was "hey yeah, this is interesting" but no further comment on it. Nerwen said something more along the lines that would Wolf-Wilwa be so careless in her speech?

Nerwen asks for her editing to not be blown out of proportion. Nogrod says this on the subject: a wolf is usually more conscious and more interested on every possible angle others might read her posts and thus is more prone to make such changes when realising a possibly bad wording or suspicious-looking point, or just coming to second thoughts whether that point was something one should make.
But the fact that Nerwen was willing to make that change and not acknowledging it in public - not wishing to fex. make just a new post entertaining the issue anew - does look peculiar.
I agree with him on the fact she chose not to make her change public. However, I think innocents are just as conscious to what is being posted because they're as likely as a wolf to be lynched for mistyping or misconstruing their point. No one wants to be killed regardless of side and I don't follow Nogrod's reasoning completely on Nerwen as suspicious because what player isn't conscious of mistakes they make?

[satansaloser2005]

*pets poor Boro's brain*

Of course, I'm by no means saying we should ignore seer reveals. If a 'seer' comes forward, we take their alleged dreams into account, blah blah. What I'm saying is that we won't know which seer they are, so while we can trust their dreams (hopefully!) we can't trust that they themselves are innocent.

[Pitchwife]

About the Nerwen edit thing: much as I'm inclined to respect her wish not to see it blown out of proportion, turning the matter into a 'sign of innocence', as Tewie does in #49, is too much. After last game, I'm not sure there's anything I'd put beyond a Nerwolf. Not going to vote her without some better reason, though.

Also when re-reading, I became worried about TEWie-Sally and such discussions in the beginning... I mean "happy band of Wolves goes to picnic, what will we do in the first hours of Day 1 when nothing much is happening, let's have a chat". Of course, that would mean that they would have to be packmates.
As if most games didn't start with banter like that for the first 10-15 posts. I'm not saying ignore it all - there can be valuable hints in banter, like a cobbler signalling to wolves or self-conscious "I'm-so-evil" jokes - , but seeing a happy wolf chat just because there was some banter, regardless of content, is stretching it.
(Btw, Zil, I explicitely did applaud Legate in my very first post. Remains to be seen whether that was premature or not.)

Both wolf packs have a seer, making a fake reveal inevitable, as well as easily convincing and more believable.
And at the same time making a genuine reveal by our own Seer rather risky, especially after this here:
That being said, I don't think we should trust our seer. I mean we should, but even a wolf seer could hand over wolves (of course from the other pack, but still) and we'd never know the difference.
Again, this is obviously true, but what's the point of stating it, except to sow mistrust of any Seer revealing, including our own?
But if you're asking for 'attack plans' in case of reveals, we should consider the possibility that the person revealing isn't necessarily the true Seer (innocent or wolvish), but a Hunter acting as mouthpiece for the real Seer in order to attract a Night-kill. The wolf-pack with a Hunterwolf could easily do this (they know each other's gifts, of course), but unless I'm mistaken about the current version of the Rules, our own gifteds could do it as well once the Seer has dreamed the Hunter.

EDIT: x-ed w/ Boro, sally & Kit

[Nogrod]

No one wants to be killed regardless of side and I don't follow Nogrod's reasoning completely on Nerwen as suspicious because what player isn't conscious of mistakes they make?I totally agree with the first one and I only said the wolves are more conscious of it - and thus more ready to make last-moment changes.

But the reason I wanted to make the point on Wilwa and to continue on your point on Nerwen was that I wanted to see reactions to some open suspicions - or well, peculiarities, whatever you want to call them (with Wilwa I could say it was more or less an actual suspicion and with Nerwen maybe something that could be noteworthy if there were other concerns to add) as there had been basically none whatsoever before those two cases and we needed some actual discussion on suspicions.

I'm going back now to read those up as my bedtime is approaching. Back soonish with some ideas on how it went.

[Kitanna]

I hate that I have to do it this way, knowing full well the possible repercussions of such an early vote, but I need to get back to work.

Here's the only person that has popped out to me more than once at this point.

++Inziladun

Nogrod pointed out Wilwa's post about "helping" one wolf team by eliminating the other. Inziladun agrees. Nogrod points out Nerwen's editing and how she didn't make it public. Again Inziladun agrees, but doesn't really cast suspicion on Wilwa or Nerwen.

Before Norgrod says anything about Nerwen Inziladun says: I don't necessarily read anything into that post edit people are concerned about. I think everyone's probably caught themselves making a error in quoting someone at some time or another.
After Norgrod posts, he says:
You have a point, and I'm not at all convinced Nerwen's innocent. Still, I don't know that I can vote for her based only on that.
Granted he never said he thought Nerwen was innocent or anything, but he changes his tune from her edit was just a mistake to she's suspicious because of it and all in light of someone else's comment.

I wish I could stay longer and didn't have to vote so hastily, but such as life I suppose.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Tum te tum. I think Pitch is a wolf. Let's lynch him.

No! Noooo! Lynch me!

Oh, do shut up, Nilp, I'm busy looking for wolves.

Wolf! Wolf right here! Lynch this guy!

Don't make me pull out the hedge clippers again.

...Shutting up.

That's what I thought.

Anyway, Pitch is doing an awful lot of analysing and listing, but it seems very smokescreen-y and repetitive, very safe. Sally could be setting herself up with an excuse for not wolfhunting (love ya, dear :p) but then again she is Sally. Everyone in this game from Europe seems innocent to me so far, but it's early days. Can someone inform me when DL is?

[satansaloser2005]

Can someone inform me when DL is?

Eight central. And I love you too. ;)

[Isabellkya]

I do not like how Legate connected himself to Nogrod in terms of Nog will come and lynch all of the Day One Jokers. I think in the meta-game sense, about eighteen posts of first Day joking is on the small side, when it could and has easily turned into two pages.


Morsul. If Wilwa is suspicious, then you would be half-right, that I would build a case against her. Though it would not be a case in the sense of 'Here is my case against her, read it and vote for her if you agree'. It would be more 'here are reasons why I am suspicious of Wilwa, and this is why I am voting for her'. But I would not, nor was I planning on.. setting her up for a lynch. It was a joke in reference to the last game. ;)


That would be handy to know if the Wolves were pack specified when they perished.

Wilwa's comment about decreasing one pack would help the other pack - it came off as a touch sad. As if we focused on decreasing one pack (her pack). it would help the other pack, which she does not want.

Plus if we're not told their packs when they die then it's not like we could try to plan that out anyway.

Plan out lynchings?

I think we should still be going after wolves regardless of what pack they may be on, because we do not know their specific packs. Yes, connections between players may be a bit more iffy than usual, but a wolf is still a wolf.

Legate. The last game, Nerwen joked about being evil on the First Day... and lasted the entire game, even though there were people whom suspected her because of her 'Go Wolves!' "joke" post. Wilwa was her wolf partner. Hence my post referencing it.


I really do not understand the statement that 'there has been too much joking around, even for Day one.' There were perhaps eighteen posts of joking, and as mentioned at the top of this post... I think that is on the small scale considering meta-game. Even if every player had only one 'joke post', that would still be fourteen! So I fail to see this 'issue'.


I took the Unicorns to mean, that if they died gifted and were chosen to re-enter the game, they would enter as an ordo. But if they died as an ordo - then they re-entered gifted.

Getting rid of one pack, also makes the village's life easier, by a tad. It is hard to predict what exactly will happen, as it is not just numerics and statistics. We all have free thought and to an extent free choice in our decisions. Which greatly influence how the game goes - as none of us are completely immune to being influenced by the words and actions of others. I think that the more variables added to a situation, the higher probability of chaos to occur. So my point in all of this, is that it sounds like your sentiments regarding getting rid of one wolf pack over the other, would in turn help one - comes off as too emotionally involved if that makes sense Wilwa. You make it sound like we will hit wolves easily, and all from the same pack. It could be that when/if pack A goes, there is one left of pack B. We are guaranteed very little in this game. Only that a lot of players will perish, and the game will end eventually, with a winner.

Sally are you really purposefully trying to discredit the village-Seer so early?

X'd with Sally and Shasta.

[satansaloser2005]

FOR SERIOUS?!?!

Gah, I'd made a post to/about Pitch just now and it's been eaten. Back in five.


EDIT: x'd with Fell Bell. Heh, this makes my day even better!

[wilwarin538]

What do you mean wilwa with that bolded part there? Are you saying that it is a positive thing that there are two wolf-rangers who can protect their mates from the rivalling team's attacks? Isn't that just the contrary and one more reason to get rid of one whole team asap.?


Uh, honestly I hadn't even thought of that. I see Ranger and I automatically think they're on our side, I'm not used to the idea of an evilRanger, but yes of course they would protect their fellow wolves. I guess cause even the evil Hunter can help us out if they hunt one of the other pack, and the evil Unicorn can bring an innocent back to life, so I suppose I had the idea of 3 Rangers being a good thing. That was my mistake.

So do you think we should refrain ourselves from lynching wolves as lynching a wolf from pack A is "helping" pack B?

No, that is not what I think.

Look, I'm gonna stop explaining this. Day 1 I talk about the rules, I talk about the statistics and our chances of winning, it's what I do. That's all I was doing, I was just trying to wrap my mind around our situation and be sure that we hadn't missed something. I see now that what I was saying was rather pointless, since there's no way to tell what pack a certain suspect could belong to, I was just talking, trying to stir up talk, I obviously hadn't thought of every possible scenario.

*is exhausted*

About the Seer reveals. I think if someone comes forward we should lynch those they say are a wolf, but not necessarily trust those that they say are innocent. Like a wolfseer could reveal the identity of a wolf from the other pack, so we should take all wolf identity reveals seriously, even though there's a chance they're lying, but then the next day we just have a wolf anyway. When it comes to a seer revealer saying someone is innocent though, we shouldn't take that as seriously, I'd say we should almost ignore it until we can be more sure about the seer's side. Since a seer wolf could say one of their mates is innocent, then reveal a wolf from the other pack, and we might think since they were right about the wolf then the one they say is innocent must actually be, when they may not. Does that make sense?


Good points here, dear. I mean the wolves are in just as much trouble as we are. To me the people who are playing Chicken Little look bad, because they're making people panic and when people panic they make mistakes. Is that what they want, perhaps? I mean seriously. Why make it seem so bad for the innocents, when really it's just as bad for the wolves and they're in even bigger trouble than we are? I'm just sayin', it seems like tactical fear mongering, not actual concern.

That whole highlighted part bugs me, just the feel of it. I'm all for optimism, but the way that she seems so against those who are just being realistic about our chances, and the "making people panic" thing. I don't know, I just don't like it. (though I'll admit I have just skimmed through everything and so don't have an accurate feel on her with regards to all her posts, this one was just the last one so I read it more thorougly, I'll look more closely at everyone later).

I don't think Nerwen's editing thing is a big deal at all, I mean it's not like she does it all the time or anything. I think some are making a bit too big a deal out of it. Besides, even innocent people worry about looking suspicious and do stuff to avoid that, avoiding suspicion is not only something wolves do.

I should be back on randomly until DL. I'll probably wait longer to vote since on Day 2 my vote will have to be rediculously early, I want this one to be more thought out.

x'ed since Sally at 63

[Nogrod]

On Wilwa

My posts #28 & #31


I have to concur with Nog's answer to this one. Whether or not we should halve the Night-kills if we can is not a question which should cause an innocent much headaches, especially not an experienced player like wilwa.
Conclusion so far: this last post does worry me - looks like contributing, but is really quite wishy-washy, confused and confusing. Most suspicious thing I've seen up to now.

I agree with Nogrod that the solution to Wilwa's question is easy. Once we catch a wolf, we should go for those who look like his/her packmates so we can lessen the horrible killing rate. Although of course we still shouldn't ignore other people who look wolvish.


That's an interesting observation about Wilwa. I'll keep it in mind.

That is indeed a highly peculiar thing to say. Though, you'd think a Wolfwa would be more careful.

But Wilwa's ill, it seems. At least she's having blood tests, anyway. Which might make an ill-considered remark more likely– for an innocent as well as a wolf.

Wilwa does make a point we'd be helping the second wolfpack by getting rid of the first since Pack A can't win until Pack B is gone. However, I'll have to go with the sentiment that "a wolf is a wolf" at this point. We have to lynch one before we can put him/her into a team. Still, I don't see this as a real sign against Wilwa.


I think Wilwa's remark about not wanting to help out the other team is not suspicious. Her explantation satisfies me.


That remark about helping one wolf team get rid of the other was odd. I don't see how we can possibly know who belongs to what pack anyway, even if the pack indentities are given when a wolf dies. Can we really single out wolves as belonging to one pack or another? Not unless one has some inside info. Still, having blood drawn is assignable to Mordor, and I personally don't do well with needles, so I don't know if I can vote for her toDay.

My first thought (and I should have mentioned it earlier) goes make to what Nogrod said in regards to Wilwa. After he highlighted her little bit about "helping" one team by destroying the other, I found it interesting both Nerwen and Inziladun commented on it. On Inziladun's part it was "hey yeah, this is interesting" but no further comment on it. Nerwen said something more along the lines that would Wolf-Wilwa be so careless in her speech?

Wilwa's comment about decreasing one pack would help the other pack - it came off as a touch sad. As if we focused on decreasing one pack (her pack). it would help the other pack, which she does not want.


As I'm in a copy-pasting mood I'll continue with the Nerwen-discussion first before coming back to some overall remarks.


EDIT: X'd with a host...
EDIT2: added Izzy-quote

[satansaloser2005]

....what's the point of stating it, except to sow mistrust of any Seer revealing, including our own?
But if you're asking for 'attack plans' in case of reveals, we should consider the possibility that the person revealing isn't necessarily the true Seer (innocent or wolvish), but a Hunter acting as mouthpiece for the real Seer in order to attract a Night-kill. The wolf-pack with a Hunterwolf could easily do this (they know each other's gifts, of course), but unless I'm mistaken about the current version of the Rules, our own gifteds could do it as well once the Seer has dreamed the Hunter.


Heh. You just made my freaking day.

When I posted that I not only wanted to make everyone aware of what I was thinking, but I also expected certain types of responses and wanted to see who would give them to me.

Let's analyze! That's right, analyze myself (sort of)! :D

Me: "So we can't trust the seer right away. Don't kill them, necessarily, but don't trust their motives. We still gotta listen to them though, 'cause....yeah."

Pitch: "Sally wants to make us mistrust our seer! I'm going to hint that she's evil because clearly someone who says this is a wolf!"

Me: *saw that coming*

Pitch: "But we have to keep an eye out and be open-minded because it could be a wolf!hunter trying to bravely protect their wolf!seer. Blah blah."

Me: *saw that coming*

Pitch: "Oh, and of course the ordo!hunter could do that too. Wow, look what I did? I planned for nearly every eventuality in this and completely just discredited Sally. Oh, and of course I've been thinking about this for more than an ordo would need to but I've no reason to be worried about it, oh noes, not me."

Me: "Pitch? Hun?"

Pitch: *blushes* "Yes?"

Me: "Your fur is showing."



I love it when my drag-crap-out-of-you posts work out so well. Look, I got an Izzy to try to fear monger against me too. Lovely! I'm proud of myself! :)


And now I'll go look at Pitch more in detail. Kthnxbye? Kthnxbye. ^_^



Yes, I'm paranoid. I don't care. I got exactly the wolf!reaction I expected and I plan to deal with Pitch accordingly. *grins, runs off*

[Nogrod]

On Nerwen

Kit points the edit-thing out on #39 and Nerwen immediately answers.

What really gives me pause is that last one - I'd have thought editing the actual content of your posts (other than typos and formatting) was an absolute no-no in WW?? Good catch, Kit.


Nerwen hopes it would not be blown out of proportion (on #42).

I personally think that a wolf wouldn't have the nerve to edit the actual content of a post after posting without a note. So, I guess I'm turning Nerwen's bad conduct into a sign of innocence. Still, that's my opinion on the matter.


I don't necessarily read anything into that post edit people are concerned about. I think everyone's probably caught themselves making a error in quoting someone at some time or another.

My adding to the Nerwen's edit-issue (on #57).

You have a point, and I'm not at all convinced Nerwen's innocent. Still, I don't know that I can vote for her based only on that.

Fair enough, but I've done the same thing both as an innocent and as a wolf. If I realize I've made a mistake I fix it right away, and if I don't think anyone has noticed I just don't say anything about it because it's easier, or I just plain forget to add that 'edit' at the end. Regardless of her role, it's likely the same with Nerwen.

I side with what Nerwen said in #42. Don't make a mountain out of a mole-hill with the editting. It's questionable sportsmanship to use meta reasoning and speculation as to what and why someone was editting.

Nerwen said "yep, that's right Kit," gave an explanation. Let's leave it at that.

I agree with him on the fact she chose not to make her change public. However, I think innocents are just as conscious to what is being posted because they're as likely as a wolf to be lynched for mistyping or misconstruing their point. No one wants to be killed regardless of side and I don't follow Nogrod's reasoning completely on Nerwen as suspicious because what player isn't conscious of mistakes they make?

About the Nerwen edit thing: much as I'm inclined to respect her wish not to see it blown out of proportion, turning the matter into a 'sign of innocence', as Tewie does in #49, is too much. After last game, I'm not sure there's anything I'd put beyond a Nerwolf. Not going to vote her without some better reason, though.

[Boromir88]

But the reason I wanted to make the point on Wilwa and to continue on your point on Nerwen was that I wanted to see reactions to some open suspicions - or well, peculiarities, whatever you want to call them (with Wilwa I could say it was more or less an actual suspicion and with Nerwen maybe something that could be noteworthy if there were other concerns to add) as there had been basically none whatsoever before those two cases and we needed some actual discussion on suspicions.

Fair enough, but I'm also used to a stubborn innocence about you, and where you don't easily let go of your reasons. (I don't mean offense in those statements, I'm just as stubborn :p).

Kick-starting suspicions is good, but stepping back from them (instead of continuing to argue them) and basically saying you were probing for other reactions...seems like a quite different Nogrod. Simply not confident in your opinions at this stage or wolf testing what targets he wants to go after?

*In case if it's not clear...watching you Nog.*

[Nogrod]

Sorry to put all those parts of the posts there, but if one of them turns out a wolf that kind of easy-reference might prove handy later (and I had to do that anyway to get muself to read them in order).

So so me comments...

On the discussion on Wilwa.

Pitch says it's the most suspicious thing he's seen so far (after some round-abouts) - which is kind of all too easy.

Lommy doesn't take sides on suspicions but comments only on the general issue. Carefully decided not to comment on Wilwa herself?

Inzil sound opportunistic with his "interesting" and "keep it in mind".

Nerwen more or less defends Wilwa: "a Wolfwa would be more careful". Heh, were you two "more careful" in the last game? :) Also it is interesting she tries to give a meta-reason (she's ill) to not think Wilwa suspicious.

Kit says it's no real sign against Wilwa (obviously... so what's the point?). Feels a bit protective.

The EW is satisfied with Wilwa's explanation... excuse me?

Inzil (second comment) misses the mark and ends up saying he would not vote on the basis of that - and that follows the new sentiment that people don't seem to suspect Wilwa that much... that could be seen as opportunistic as well.

Kit (second comment) notes Nerwen's and Inzil's reactions to the suspicion.

Izzy banged the head of the nail by saying what I was thinking about... so why I suspected Wilwa in the first place.


On the discussion on Nerwen

Pitch looks like trigger-happy again without committing himself too much (see above case Wilwa). I'm uneasy with him and the two "hits".

The EW says he will turn Nerwen's "bad conduct into a sign of innocence"... excuse me? It's the second time I just don't get him - but it might actually be just a different approach... but it bothers me still.

Inzil seems to be quick to join the group defending Nerwen - but still feels the need to re-explain after my re-stating of the point.

Sally takes the personal view: I do that as well and it's likely the same with her. Looks good, but if she is in cahoots with Nerwen she would probably have said the same...

Although (and this holds for all the people to come later as well) I'm not so sure anyone being Nerwen's packmate would think it advisable to comment on the issue at this point any more as basically everyone had already said there was nothing suspicious in there. So why relate themselves defending their mate (if Nerwen gets lynched / killed) as someone might come back to these discussions afterwards?

But Boro's "cut the crap, she's innocent" -attitude is way too overconfident for my liking. Especially the comment "let's leave it at that". Well, well, well...

Kit comes around now defending Nerwen... interesting, but probably more innocent than suspicious, regardless of Nerwen's role.

Pitch (second comment) is very carefully trying to not let the suspicion go but says he won't vote her without better reasons...


Okay. You can see quite a lot of what I think from these comments. Now I need to take a short break, read the rest that has come in while I have been writing these, and then make some kind of final remarks for the Day, vote and go to sleep.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, here just a post in course of reading the thread...

What is happy about confusing Inzildun with Isabellkya?
The overall tone of your discussion was just happy. But then, there was Sally present. Okay, whatever, it was not the point... just sort of that if I were to choose some Wolves from the first posters based on anything (knowing that there HAD TO be - by mere numerical count - at least one Wolf among the people who posted before me), you two could as well be it. But that said, it was because I had no more info than these opening joking posts with basically no content, as you haven't posted since then, and knowing there were some Wolves there, I just made as good guess as any.

Legate- Hmm. Lots of posting. A couple of things stand out.

In his very next post:

Nerwen- has accountably moved from someone of whom he was 'mightily scared', to 'slightly reasonable' and 'careful-ish'; he'd placed her in the 'Hard To Say' category.
No, no, these were two different things. Being "mightily scared" is a feeling: a subjective feeling, knowing that Nerwen can be a terrible Wolf, and not getting for now very good impression from her. The list I posted later was a list of my level of suspicion about people in general after a reflection about the subject.

Also, was Pitch really 'applauding' you? I haven't really seen any over the top 'buttering up' of you, or anything of that nature.
Like he said, he was. Maybe not over the top, but it just scares me, for some reason. "I have a bad feeling about this."

Also, about the reveals. Erm, there's three seers out there. Even I would try a reveal at some point if I was one of the wolf seers and had good dreams to go off of. (It's irrelevant, but I almost wish I were a wolf so I could do it lol.)

That being said, I don't think we should trust our seer. I mean we should, but even a wolf seer could hand over wolves (of course from the other pack, but still) and we'd never know the difference.
I would phrase it like (and I hope I understood it right, as I think that's what you meant as well): we should trust our Seer, i.e. lynch whomever he/she tells us to, but not take it as a proof that him/herself is innocent. And as Boro said, whatever Seer reveals, there will be at least one faction of Wolves (in case of a real Seer, two factions) which will want to kill him/her. Only the Wolves have the advantage that their Ranger will know their Seer, which is actually quite a major blow here. For that matter, our Ranger would be probably in the worst position when a Seer reveals, as he/she would not know whether to protect the Seer or not. It's quite a mess, I'd say. But I think we should solve the situation if/when it happens. Let's not get into too deep speculation - for now I'd just hope the Ranger could figure out the best solution for him/herself.

I agree with him on the fact she chose not to make her change public. However, I think innocents are just as conscious to what is being posted because they're as likely as a wolf to be lynched for mistyping or misconstruing their point. No one wants to be killed regardless of side and I don't follow Nogrod's reasoning completely on Nerwen as suspicious because what player isn't conscious of mistakes they make?
Just one comment to the Nerwen issue, as I personally don't want to stretch it and don't see that a problem - I think Kitanna stated it exactly the way I would phrase it. That's not saying I would not suspect Nerwen, but I would not see the editing issue as giving any pros or cons for my suspicion. Enough said.

As if most games didn't start with banter like that for the first 10-15 posts. I'm not saying ignore it all - there can be valuable hints in banter, like a cobbler signalling to wolves or self-conscious "I'm-so-evil" jokes - , but seeing a happy wolf chat just because there was some banter, regardless of content, is stretching it.
Again, see above - it's all done considering the fact that we have fifty million Wolves this time, and it was basically clear that there was at least one Wolf among the "hello nothing nothing nothing to say" people in the first few posts. But whatever. It was "for the time being", because by now all these people are posting again and there is far more to consider.

But if you're asking for 'attack plans' in case of reveals, we should consider the possibility that the person revealing isn't necessarily the true Seer (innocent or wolvish), but a Hunter acting as mouthpiece for the real Seer in order to attract a Night-kill. The wolf-pack with a Hunterwolf could easily do this (they know each other's gifts, of course), but unless I'm mistaken about the current version of the Rules, our own gifteds could do it as well once the Seer has dreamed the Hunter.

I think that's quite a good observation here, however, what particular meaning would it have for us? It's not that it would make any difference: there will be a "Seer", nobody would know whether it's real or not, and either we all trust the person, or in some (rather hard to imagine just out of the blue) situation we decide that it's an impostor and get rid of the person - and if it's a Wolf, it would be a Wolf, regardless whether Seer or Hunter. Okay, if it's a Hunter, it would mean a kill of one person. Okay, now maybe I get it - the one thing that would be hard is if a Seer (real Seer) counter-revealed, then the impostor was lynched, turned out to be a Hunter, and killed the Seer (who has foolishly revealed). But that's quite a complicated situation to imagine, again, at least I think so.

Okay! But that's it for now, I would like to vote soon, also Lommy sitting next to me looks like she'll be about finishing her post, so now I will sort my thoughts on people and then vote and that's it, I think.

[Thinlómien]

Huh, you people are posting a lot and my brain actually hurts. A pause from ww seems to be no good...

In my brain, Wilwa and Sally are currently not making much sense. Wilwa I can excuse by her loss of blood but Sally... eh, darling, have you taken some illegal substances? :p

Well, I have to admit Wilwa makes some sense but sometimes I don't get her logic. She got me wondering about the end conditions of this game. If there's 2 of each team (2 wolves from team 1, 2 wolves from team 2, 2 innocents) the game continues as normal, right? Or what? But I still think it makes the most sense to kill the wolf-packs one by one, at least to me.

Sally is all banter, and makes weird points. Either because she refuses to explain them because of avoiding being too reasonable or either because she's laying traps, but it still confuses me.

There's something that doesn't quite sit right with me with Ewie. He is somehow too humble, or something. Humble as in "quick to admit one's own mistakes and vices" which is something wolves are more prone to do, because they know they're evil. I think his actions are worth following.

Although with the time zone differences, I guess this means we won't have much time together? 'Tis a pity.Yes, less of personal Dr Boro therapy for me, I guess. :p

Nogrod is making mountains out of molehills (eg. Nerwen editing issue) but because it's so characteristic of him, I will let it pass.

As for the seer reveals, I don't think we need to bother about them so much now. Like somebody said, wolf claims are probably true and if they aren't, then we have a stupid false seer. And we can always lynch a seer claimant - there's after all at least 1/3 chance s/he's a wolf. :rolleyes: (Pretty drastic, I know, but mathematically it makes sense. That's why I hate matemathical arguments.)

I mean the wolves are in just as much trouble as we are. To me the people who are playing Chicken Little look bad, because they're making people panic and when people panic they make mistakes. Is that what they want, perhaps? I mean seriously. Why make it seem so bad for the innocents, when really it's just as bad for the wolves and they're in even bigger trouble than we are? I'm just sayin', it seems like tactical fear mongering, not actual concern.Ehh what? As well I could say now that you're (hmm what would be a good word...?) big bad wolfing (?) now by claiming the wolves are in trouble. Actually that would be a far more wolvish thing to do - to lull the villagers to a false sense of security.

And I don't think we've had any too pessimistic stormcrows. At least I think I (and those whose points I recall) have been just realistic. And it's (almost) always better to be too wary than too trusting in werewolf. And still some things are facts. We do not have as big chances of winning as in a normal game. It can't be so with three teams competing for victory. But if we accept the fact that we have a 1/3 chance of winning, then we are on a realistic ground. Maybe to some it is pessimism to say it aloud, but it's realism. It doesn't make me especially happy either, but we just have to live with it. At least each wolf pack has also only 1/3 chance of winning, even though the probability of a wolf victory is 2/3.

I do not like how Legate connected himself to Nogrod in terms of Nog will come and lynch all of the Day One Jokers. I think in the meta-game sense, about eighteen posts of first Day joking is on the small side, when it could and has easily turned into two pages.That actually troubled me too, although it feeling bad to me didn't seem to have any reasonable gorunds back then nor does it now. What would a wolf-Legate profit from threatening villagers with Nogrod? Don't get it. Well maybe the wolves aren't always acting hyperanalytically and purposefully (something that's good to keep in mind) but that makes drawing conclusions more difficult.


My thoughts on people this far (note that the division between categories is really artificial, but I wanted to arrange them somehow)...

More good than bad
Nogrod - looks like himself although he is quite quiet. Doesn't give off wolvish vibes.
Kitanna - for once, I do not suspect her on Day1. I hope it means that I've learnt to read her (and not that she's evil this time). She seems to have sharp points, although I don't necessarily agree with them.
Zil - seems more reasonable than most, although I can't remember anything in particular that he said, which could be eyebrow-raising. He is not giving the sinister vibes he so often is when he's evil.
Izzy - if I had bet on one person's innocence, I would lay my bet on Izzy. She makes sense, thinks independently and seems to notice stuff others don't. I like her.

Enigmas
Wilwa - she needs more blood and sugar. She occasionally makes me raise my eyebrows but it might be just our disagreement or her physical condition. Nothing too bad yet.
Legate - has something fishy in his manner, has seemed more genuine towards the end of the Day, though. He makes sense but is at times a bit off (feeling-wise).
Nerwen - always an enigma.
Pitchwife - my opinion on him changes like a rollercoaster. Now again I was becoming quite sure there's something really sinister in his pleasant and careful manner, when somebody's post reminded me of his reputation as Mister Agreeable (I had forgotten that). Also, there seems to be suspicion againt him in the air exactly in the manner that makes me reconsider my own suspicions.

More bad than good
Morsul - I don't know what's it, but the less I think of him, the more suspicious I consider him. Err, that probably didn't make much sense. But I just mean that when I'm not paying any particular attention to him, he starts to seem like a threatening figure on the background. He may be acting characteristically, but that shouldn't exonerate him. There's just something bad I seem to have half-consciously gathered from his posts.
Boro - not giving any (in)famous vibes to either direction, but I don't like it how much he seems to have been reading and pondering the rules. It's always a disturbing when somebody appears for the first time on Day1 and gives a very enlightened and calm impression.
Shasta - hiding behind banter and not replying points made against him. And what is this Nilp-thingy? I get the feeling that an innocent would be more worried ergo involved at this point.
Ewie - seems to have bad conscience, see what I said above. But I also said I won't vote him without a good reason and I'm not sure if this counts as one.

This made me rearrange my thoughts a bit, but I'm not any closer to a decision of whom to vote. Feels like it will be a tough choice...


edit: xed with 2x Nog, 1xLeg, 1xBog (sorry had to make it rhyme!)

[Nogrod]

Kick-starting suspicions is good, but stepping back from them (instead of continuing to argue them) and basically saying you were probing for other reactions...seems like a quite different Nogrod.YEah, I should add this, once again (I thought of adding it to my last post but then thought it would be just explaining too much).

So I didn't come up with the points against Wilwa and Nerwen randomly. There were things there which made me wonder and even suspect them. On Day1 that's always a treat. But I'm not saying they are my top suspects toDay, that is not anymore. And that in turn is because how some people have reacted to the discussion about the two.

Yeah, probing is the right term; to see whether other people's ideas make me suspect the two more with added reasons, or whether they manage to make me turn my gaze to those commenting the two in suspicious ways whilst lured to quit the banter.

My vote is probably going to someone else indeed.

[satansaloser2005]

And I'm not even on Lommie's list. :(

On the contrary, Lommie dear, I just don't like it when people cry 'doom!' and everyone freaks out so much that they overreact at stuff (:rolleyes:) and we have chaos. Let's remember that we're in trouble, but that the wolves are all in a similar position and thus won't be too overconfident (as a whole anyway), at least for now, and leave it at that. Otherwise you're just spreading panic.

[Thinlómien]

So, Nogrod, everybody who commented on Wilwa or Nerwen (with the exception of Kitanna) is suspicious? *scratches head*

Sally, I'm sorry I forgot you, and I don't get how it happened - probably I was thinking of you too much. :D You'd go to the "suspiciousish" category because I think you make weird (as in "don't make sense") posts and wheel/weasel/wheeze/whuzz/buzz/buzzle/cuddle/whatever around a lot.

And I don't really think the wolves are in trouble more than us. They also have 1/3 chance of winning, like us. But I would be less worried if I was a wolf than I am now - even if they have the other pack to give them trouble, they have all these nice gifts and (like I said earlier) excuses to seem reasonable on the thread, which are things any wolf would be happy about.

Or maybe it's just that I can't believe the wolves could feel threatened too, not threatened by us at least. Maybe by the other pack. Gah, these dynamics are confusing me.

But somehow still you insisting it must be depressing for wolves makes me think you are a wolf who is depressed.

[satansaloser2005]

Or an ordo who's oppressed. Either way, really.

[Nogrod]

So, Nogrod, everybody who commented on Wilwa or Nerwen (with the exception of Kitanna) is suspicious? *scratches head*Well, more or less so... I'm not too relaxed with Kit either.

And should I add that those who skipped the discussion alltogether are the most suspicious?

[Boromir88]

But Boro's "cut the crap, she's innocent" -attitude is way too overconfident for my liking. Especially the comment "let's leave it at that". Well, well, well...


Pardon me. I did not say it was crap, nor that she was innocent. I said Nerwen acknowledged it, explained it, and we should not make a mountain out of a mole-hill.

My "leave it at that" was an attempt to indirectly say I'm uncomfortable with talk about the whole editting thing. It's meta-reason, and in some ways looks like Nerwen was being called a cheat, and speculating about how unfair it would be if Nerwen is a wolf.

What I didn't want to say, because it would have further gave attention to it, but since you Nogrod seem to want to anyway, and insist I said she was innocent.

If Nerwen's a wolf, she should be ashamed for deleting content she thought would make her look suspicious, when she knows the "unsaid" rule.

However, I find it a particularly unsporty thing to insinuate someone is a cheat, or consciously breaking the rule when there is no proof.

I have no issue with Kit pointing it out, it was good that she did to force an explanation from Nerwen. What I do have an issue with is now Nerwen must be a wolf because she editted out something without first telling us, and the insinuation that she's being unfair for doing it.

[wilwarin538]

Wilwa I can excuse by her loss of blood

Actually, even if I was feeling top shape today I probably would have said many of the same things (just maybe more coherently). I seem to always see the game quite differently then everyone else and therefore come out with some things that usually shock people. Basically I'm not trying to use my illness as an accuse or a free pass or anything, since it probably isn't the reason for my crazy thinking, just maybe my confusing communication of the crazy thinking...

But I still think it makes the most sense to kill the wolf-packs one by one

Overall I agree with this, I'm just scared that that could make it easier for the other wolf team. But it's already been said a ton of times that either way it's not like we can act on either plan, we can't control which wolf pack we lynch from.


I have a feeling I'm going to have a difficult time finding someone to vote for. I have some weird vibes from some, like Sally for her anti-realism, and Shasta's Nilpyness (which I find funny, but unhelpful/unnecessary), and Pitch, but I think I always get bad vibes from him Day 1, then usually feel better later on, so I likely wouldn't vote for him. I do feel quite good about Kit, Izzy and Lommy, and Nog and Inzil aswell, since they all seem to act the way I would expect them too. So I'm not sure yet.

x'ed with a few

[Nogrod]

I see what you're pointing at Boro... and there are good reasons to say what you say - and I actually agree on them. The only problem is that I don't trust you and you would claim that same highground as a wolf... well as Nerwen's packmate. :D

But as I said, it was more the reactions stuff I was after. And maybe they will help us later. Hopefully they do. (And that's not just the question of Nerwen but how others reacted to that discussion)

[Thinlómien]

Gaaargh.

Okies. Sally-pudding, you shall have the benefit of doubt for toDay.

Boro's last post looks good.

I said I wanted to give Ewie a Day2 if he doesn't do anything too bad.

I don't really have even weak points against Morsul.


So that leaves

++Shasta

It feels bad to vote him with him having posted so little this far, but no can do. The little he has posted hasn't quite impressed me. You can have a look at what I've said about him this far for I don't want to recap, but most of all he doesn't seem to put much effort into this, which I would see as wolvish. Would a wolf really care so much whether we lynch an innocent or a wolf from the other pack? probably not as long as his mates are safe and he himself is not incriminated in the process...

Good night people, I'm going now.


edit: xed with Wilwa and Nog

[Nogrod]

Okay.

I have given this a lot of thought the last few hours.

Sorry to be the fun-killer but I must go to sleep. Hopefully there is enough to read from Day1 as it is now.


So let's "cut the crap" and lynch a werewolf.

++ Lommy


I'll make a few speculative notes in a separate post and then go to sleep - but if someone is going offline like this minute there it is.

I'm the seer and needed to find out Lommy as she fools me basically everytime. A good pick indeed.


EDIT: heh, x'd with the wolverine...

[satansaloser2005]

Ya know, fair point. What is Shasta up to? Nutter.

[Boromir88]

I see what you're pointing at Boro... and there are good reasons to say what you say - and I actually agree on them. The only problem is that I don't trust you and you would claim that same highground as a wolf... well as Nerwen's packmate. :D

But as I said, it was more the reactions stuff I was after. And maybe they will help us later. Hopefully they do. (And that's not just the question of Nerwen but how others reacted to that discussion)

Indeed I would, you lot know me all too well. With that said now, and having my say about it, I can move on to all the cross-posting that just happened.

[satansaloser2005]

Okay.

I have given this a lot of thought the last few hours.

Sorry to be the fun-killer but I must go to sleep. Hopefully there is enough to read from Day1 as it is now.


So let's "cut the crap" and lynch a werewolf.

++ Lommy


I'll make a few speculative notes in a separate post and then go to sleep - but if someone is going offline like this minute there it is.

I'm the seer and needed to find out Lommy as she fools me basically everytime. A good pick indeed.


EDIT: heh, x'd with the wolverine...

Hmmmm. Very nice indeed. Now which seer are you? ;)


Go to bed, dear.

[Thinlómien]

What the heck Nogrod, I wanted to go to sleep!

I actually even spent like five minutes staring at the screen and wondering if I should just let it be and go to sleep. But I can't.

I don't get it. This action of Nogrod's doesn't make any sense. Not any sense. No sense, no no sense at all. Aiergh.

What are you Nogrod?

I can't see how this kind of lie would profit you - unless you're a wolf and your fellow's life was at stake.

[Thinlómien]

Sally the problem is that I can't see a wolf seer posting a false dream. It seems to me as a drastic move made by someone troubled, but whom?

A lover whose dearest is in danger? Doesn't still quite make sense.

But I'm sorry, I have to leave you with your own judgement here. I can't stay here and start an argument with Nogrod, it's 1.30am and I have an early morning. Do what you see best but gah at least Nogrod has probably stolen me from sleep tonight...

...

good night.

[Nogrod]

So.

Being a seer in a game where half the village have you as their primary target and have two seers among them to help isn't the easiest one. Add to that the possibility of more than two deaths by Night in this small village... and the fact that you can't "play the hide and seek" up to the last hours as the DL is impossible.

Sorry about partly spoiling the Day. (I'm sure you have things to discuss the rest of the Day but it's a bit anti-climax if the seer reveals early on D1.)

But we have one wolf there and I'll get one more dream.

Also if the ranger protects me the coming Night, both wolf-teams need to attack me the next Night and at least one innocent death is avoided. They can't afford trusting the other team would do the work for them while they might kill one of them. The balance of the mutual threat that is called. :smokin:


EDIT: X'd with everyone since my last post

[wilwarin538]

So I'm inclined to believe him, since I don't think a Nogwolfseer would reveal at this point, since he wasn't at risk of getting lynched and has a rangerwolf to protect him at Night. But an innocent!seer it makes more sense, since there are many chances he could die at Night, and would want that information out before that could happen. So yeah, I believe him, it just makes more sense.

I will therefore likely vote for Lommy, but I still want to wait....

x'ed with 2 Lommy 1 Nog

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

So, for now... I really have to vote now and then I have to go to sleep and I have to wake up in six hours from now, which is disgusting, so I am going to just do this short and vote. Which is horrible, as I would need something like three more hours to go through everybody's posts again and recheck. So very, very, very, very brief review of my feelings about people now:

Red area - total Wolvery: not really anybody in particular, but well. I guess no can do.

Orange area: Pitchwife (well! Believe me or not, it's all this generally-Mr.-Agreeable stuff, and personal paranoia as stated above), Nerwen (getting worried all the time)

Yellow area - low threat: Inzil, Nogrod, Shasta - basically with all of these, would need to look at them better!!! No time now.

Green area - basically meaning nothing to give any strong reasons to suspect, or reasons at all: Kitanna (some reasonable words), Sally (happy-go-sometimes nothing, but sometimes something to say), Wilwa (excusing some confusing-looking things with her momentary state, otherwise no reasons to suspect), TEW (nothing in particular)

Slightly more greener area, i.e. more inclined to think as innocents (okay, now I see I should have chosen to distribute the color scheme somewhat differently, but whatever): Lommy (genuine-looking), Morsul (looking like his innocent self), Boro (honestly reasonable-looking)

Totally green area: nobody

Okay, so be it. I have no time to think here more about this and go though stuff, I really need to go to sleep and this timing just didn't fit well with me. My best suspect be

++Pitchwife

Although to be really sort of "reassured", I would have liked to go through all posts again, but I can't do that. Okay, good night, village. Hope to see lot of us toMorrow still.

EDITNOTE: Okay! It took me a long while to sum my thoughts on this post and anyway it wasn't enough time, but it took long time for some things to happen on the thread, but I am not going to react on that! I have to go to sleep! Too late, incredible, why? I cannot think about it now. Nogrod! Why? Okay. I can't think about it now. GOOD NIGHT. Posting and voting as I have decided before. No other chances. (This effectively means, crossed with all the Nogrod stuff!!!!)

[satansaloser2005]

Sally the problem is that I can't see a wolf seer posting a false dream. It seems to me as a drastic move made by someone troubled, but whom?

A lover whose dearest is in danger? Doesn't still quite make sense.

But I'm sorry, I have to leave you with your own judgement here. I can't stay here and start an argument with Nogrod, it's 1.30am and I have an early morning. Do what you see best but gah at least Nogrod has probably stolen me from sleep tonight...

...

good night.


Exactly. Why would he lie? As a lover he'd be doomed either for lying or for being believed, and as the real gifted he'd have the same dilemma.

Like I said, I don't know which one he is, but I also don't know why he'd lie. My personal guess is that he's a wolf seer who has found you to be part of the other pack (or has dreamt you as a gifted and wants to eliminate you, but you'd have said something I think) and is willing to give himself up to help his pack eliminate one of the enemy.

Right now I'm interested in getting it down to two sides. It makes my life a lot easier for later on in the game. Three teams is too much for me. :p

[Boromir88]

Well Lommy...he could be the seer and has a wolf. But I'm not sure why he would reveal Day 1? Ranger should protect him for another dream, but there are a lot of wolves, and if he IS the seer he will have to explain more than popping in and going.

Could be the wolf-seer who found one from another pack and is giving the dream up to look good. Though, the other pack won't want to keep him around longer.

Could be one of the other special wolves, only pretending to be the wolf seer to benefit his pack in some way.

In any case he made my head hurt more....need coffee

[Inziladun]

No, no, these were two different things. Being "mightily scared" is a feeling: a subjective feeling, knowing that Nerwen can be a terrible Wolf, and not getting for now very good impression from her. The list I posted later was a list of my level of suspicion about people in general after a reflection about the subject.

Hmm. It wouldn't have looked as off to me if you'd clarified it in the later post. As it was, the change looked rather jarring.
As for Pitch, yes I did forget about his first post when I wrote that. But when he said he 'applauded' you, he apparently was simply glad to see some serious discussion afer all the banter. Was that really 'buttering you up'?

And should I add that those who skipped the discussion alltogether are the most suspicious?

Why is that? And why are the people who discussed the matters also suspicious? You can't have it both ways.

x/d with everything since 87- An event has occurred!

[satansaloser2005]

Well Lommy...he could be the seer and has a wolf. But I'm not sure why he would reveal Day 1? Ranger should protect him for another dream, but there are a lot of wolves, and if he IS the seer he will have to explain more than popping in and going.

Could be the wolf-seer who found one from another pack and is giving the dream up to look good. Though, the other pack won't want to keep him around longer.

Could be one of the other special wolves, only pretending to be the wolf seer to benefit his pack in some way.

In any case he made my head hurt more....need coffee

*hugs you* It's okay. We're all mad here. ^_^

[Nogrod]

Love you my little wolfling! You sounded so earnest I almost had to check back I was right... :D

But to answer your trial of rebuttal...

As Wilwa says (and as I told in my last post), it makes perfect sense.

The innocent seer has quite a few choices with one wolf bagged at this point. The chances of getting killed by Night are considerably high, there are two baddie-seers after you (who get to know your gift, mind you!), just hinting about the wolf might be ignored by the ranger or by the village the next Day - and the dream would be lost ... also I can possibly save one innocent life on N3 with revealing now, etc.


RDIT: X'd with everything after Wilwa...

[wilwarin538]

both wolf-teams need to attack me the next Night and at least one innocent death is avoided. They can't afford trusting the other team would do the work for them while they might kill one of them. The balance of the mutual threat that is called. :smokin:


*is impressed*

Like I said, I don't know which one he is, but I also don't know why he'd lie. My personal guess is that he's a wolf seer who has found you to be part of the other pack (or has dreamt you as a gifted and wants to eliminate you, but you'd have said something I think) and is willing to give himself up to help his pack eliminate one of the enemy.

Why would he do that? He could just kill her at Night and then get to live longer. That certainly can not make sense to you.

But I'm not sure why he would reveal Day 1? Ranger should protect him for another dream, but there are a lot of wolves, and if he IS the seer he will have to explain more than popping in and going

*is boggled*

I don't get why people are so confused by this. He's NOG, I'll be honest that if I was Nog I would do the same thing, because I think he's once of the biggest threats in WW, and especially in a game like this he is a likely Night kill choice. So Nogseer finds a wolf, knows he could possibily get Night killed before he could give us this info, knows how important it is to get wolves early because there are so many, and reveals knowing he will still get atleast 1 more dream.

It makes sense.

x'ed with a bunches, head hurts

[satansaloser2005]

You know, why not?

++Pitchwife


We've got one wolf in the bag and this way I can get rid of my top suspect too. That means a guaranteed lynch toMorrow and less discussion, but....gah, now I'm talking myself out of it. Lol perhaps not. *thinks about this* Yay stream of consciousness! K, so if we get another one toDay (from either pack) it allows us to be down possibly one toDay and then a guaranteed one toMorrow. Of course unicorns, blah blah, which I don't understand 'cause I'm silly and need to read the rules again, but I think it could work. Erm....you know how I am. Heh.

So I guess I'm saying....

??Pitchwife

It'd be an interesting experiment, for sure, and it would still get the result of a dead Lommie ASAP. That and it's not like killing Lommie toDay would reduce the Night kills. (Then again, I kind of want to know which wolf she is, so dunno.)


Boro, my head hurts too! :(:(:(

[Pitchwife]

Pitch: *blushes* "Yes?"
*does nothing of the kind, having nothing to blush for*
But obviously I do have something to worry about. Seriously, am I getting paranoid myself or is there a conspiracy going on?
Lommy #34: I'm too careful/serious;
Legate #35: I'm not serious enough;
Legate #46: I make safe posts and applaud him too much;
Shasta #70: I'm a wolf because I'm too smokescreeny, repetitive and safe. (Takes some cheek to make that accusation after having been a submarine all Day himself!)
sally #76: acts like she's caught me in a trap because I've actually given some thought to the matter she addressed previously instead of just being 'uh, yeah, well, what are we going to do?'. And if you think I've been thinking about this 'more than an ordo would need to', how come you saw it all coming? What does that say about yourself?
Looks like at least one bandwagon is guaranteed toDay...

À propos, bed- and voting time is approaching.
Not going to vote for at this time (but might later, depending):
Tewie - he doesn't feel quite right to me, but I'm giving him a pass toDay as he hasn't played for a long time;
wilwa - she's either furry or confused out of her senses by blood loss (except in what she says about Seer reveals, which actually made sense to me); I'm assuming it's the latter, in which case it would be unfair to lynch her toDay, but she urgently needs to improve.

Tend to trust:
Nog - yeah, well, shouldn't be taken for granted and all that, but I really don't see anything outstanding yet. I note Boro's point about using suspicions to merely probe and not stick with them, but he's been known to do that before, too.
Kit - pointed out Nerwen's much-discussed edit, but also brought arguments in her defense, which speaks of looking at things with an unbiased eye. Good observation about Zil changing mind on wilwa and Nerwen after Nog's respective posts.
Izzy - like her comeback.
Morsul - little to go on, and some not-awfully-well-reasoned early suspicions, but seems to be just himself.

Would like to trust, but ain't sure I can:
Boro - not sure why, but he feels more innocentish than usual this time. There could be some collusion 'tween him and sally or not, I don't know.
Legate - most of what he says is sensible, maybe too good to be true? What I'm most worried about is the amount of agreement between him, Lommy and Nerwen.
Lommy - as I said before, looking mostly sensible but hard to really pin her down on either side.

Unsure leaning to suspicious:
Zil - neither here nor there, very guarded, hitching on to Nog's suspicions of wilwa and Nerwen;
Nerwen - neglecting the notorious edit aside, she's just too unreadable for my taste, looks like carefully avoiding to let us know what she thinks of others and rub anybody the wrong way.

Seriously p***ed off with, probably to the point of voting:
Shasta
sally
I really hate knee-jerk retaliation, but sailing safely under the radar for most of the Day and then pounce on me for thinking too much, or whatever... gah.

Some final digestion, and then a vote.

EDIT: x-ed with everybody for the last hour or so.

[satansaloser2005]

Well, Wilwa, why kill her toNight when he could kill her toDay and try for the innocent seer toNight? I'm not saying it's the case, but it's possible.

Like you said, it's Nog. I mean....sense? No. Logic, yes, but no sense. ;)

[satansaloser2005]

Pitch, watch your mouth. Kthnxbye. :)


Also, I thought it out so much because I was the one trying to trick someone in the first place, hence I had to decide how to do stuff so I could get the right reaction. To be honest, I didn't really expect to hear it from you, but still.



What to do, what to do....I know! Dinner. :D

[wilwarin538]

It'd be an interesting experiment, for sure, and it would still get the result of a dead Lommie ASAP. That and it's not like killing Lommie toDay would reduce the Night kills. (Then again, I kind of want to know which wolf she is, so dunno.)


Maybe if she was a normal wolf, but in this game if she's a wolf she has an ability. I would rather not risk leaving an evil seer or evil ranger around longer than we need to, just so that we can potentially lynch an innocent. She's our best bet, there's no reason for "experiments" or for leaving her for tomorrow.

[satansaloser2005]

Maybe if she was a normal wolf, but in this game if she's a wolf she has an ability. I would rather not risk leaving an evil seer or evil ranger around longer than we need to, just so that we can potentially lynch an innocent. She's our best bet, there's no reason for "experiments" or for leaving her for tomorrow.

Exactly why I didn't end up voting. I'd love to do it, but with our luck she'd be the seer wolf and up taking one of our gifteds from us.


Still, I'm not voting yet, 'cause I'd like to leave it for a bit, mull things while I have a sandwich. And possibly a muffin. ;)

[wilwarin538]

Well, Wilwa, why kill her toNight when he could kill her toDay and try for the innocent seer toNight? I'm not saying it's the case, but it's possible.

But then he would be dead cause the other wolf pack would kill him. A wolfseer has absolutely no reason to do this, certainly not on Day 1.

Why are you so hard set on not believing the seer? You seem to have been sure all Day that you wouldn't believe any seer reveal, but you have to admit that there is no real reason not to trust this one.


x'ed with the cupcake, muffins are wonderful

[satansaloser2005]

But then he would be dead cause the other wolf pack would kill him. A wolfseer has absolutely no reason to do this, certainly not on Day 1.

Why are you so hard set on not believing the seer? You seem to have been sure all Day that you wouldn't believe any seer reveal, but you have to admit that there is no real reason not to trust this one.

I'm not! I just know that there's too much going on and so I'm not going to believe things right away.


I completely believe what he's said, which is why I proposed that silly little plan with the implication that Lommie's a wolf, 'cause he's got no reason to lie.

He could be a wolf seer trying to get rid of an opposing wolf, ordo or otherwise. Or he could be the proper gifted who's dreamt a wolf. Either way, it's very Nog and I'll happily believe him, but I'm not going to write him off as innocent.

Why are you so keen on believing him? I think that's a better question. *shrugs*

[Nogrod]

And I thought revealing my role would prove to be an anti-climax... :rolleyes:

It looks like Wilwa is the only sane person around.

Okay, chew it, think it, judge it.

And I'm getting pretty suspicious of Boro. To a lesser extent of Sally.

But let's give them time to read and think again? Or did they just reveal their alignment? I mean anyone in cahoots with Lommy might make a fight as losing one of their team would mean a bad disadvantage to them.

Anyway you need to lynch Lommy. Really. She's a wolf.

Just go on thinking I'm a wolf-seer if you wish. Be my quests. But Lommy is a wolf. And rest assured I'm dead on Night3 the latest. That's kind of unavoidable.

EDIT: X'd with a host again

[Boromir88]

*is boggled*

I don't get why people are so confused by this. He's NOG, I'll be honest that if I was Nog I would do the same thing, because I think he's once of the biggest threats in WW, and especially in a game like this he is a likely Night kill choice. So Nogseer finds a wolf, knows he could possibily get Night killed before he could give us this info, knows how important it is to get wolves early because there are so many, and reveals knowing he will still get atleast 1 more dream.


I was under the impression with 6 wolves the Seer would try to stay alive to get as many as possible. I grant perhaps in this format, that would be hard and more beneficial for Nog to be doing what he just did.

I'm not enthusiastically jumping on board because it doesn't make "perfect sense" as you claim. Nog was in no trouble, and yes he's a likely wolf target...but seriously you can say everyone is a wolf target! Lommy, Legate, Pitch, Inzil, sally, Izzy myself, you...wilwa I swear everyone has been killed by the wolves on Night 1 before. So, no, I don't completely by the "I'm going to die Night 1 so I have to," not without properly thinking and hearing more from Nog than "I'm the seer Lommy's a wolf."

I can think of many scenarios where a wolf-Nogrod, with a ranger!wolf in his pack, could possibly benefit from a move like this. If not only for the confusion and headache it is going to cause!

[Isabellkya]

Uhm.. I had not liked the way Legate connected himself to Nog, because it felt like he was buttering up Nog. He was being a tattle tale, and immediately pointing the finger in a direction away from himself all at the same time. 'Neener neener, you better watch out, the big bad policy lyncher is coming!'

It feels like you Lommy are doing the same thing, however to myself. 'If I bet right now, I'd bet on Izzy.' One of those 'If I do not suspect them, then they probably won't suspect me'.

Did you just reveal as one of three possible Seers, Nog?

I agree with Wilwa. If Nog were a wolfSeer, he could easily just kill her during the Night.


I am getting confused by the false voting.. ?


X'd withe verything after #106.

[satansaloser2005]

And I thought revealing my role would prove to be an anti-climax... :rolleyes:

It looks like Wilwa is the only sane person around.

Okay, chew it, think it, judge it.

And I'm getting pretty suspicious of Boro. To a lesser extent of Sally.

But let's give them time to read and think again? Or did they just reveal their alignment? I mean anyone in cahoots with Lommy might make a fight as losing one of their team would mean a bad disadvantage to them.

Anyway you need to lynch Lommy. Really. She's a wolf.

Just go on thinking I'm a wolf-seer if you wish. Be my quests. But Lommy is a wolf. And rest assured I'm dead on Night3 the latest. That's kind of unavoidable.

EDIT: X'd with a host again



Well I don't not believe you. I just don't trust you. There's a big difference.

Heh. I have no alignment. At least not with Lommie.

Meh, there's no reason not to. Besides, I'm too comfy to get up and actually make that sandwich. ;)

++Thinwolfien

Now I think our resident child murderer should go to bed and stop making me think. I really am getting a headache. *hugs you, kicks you toward bed*

[Nogrod]

I'm not enthusiastically jumping on board because it doesn't make "perfect sense" as you claim.I don't need your enthusiasm. I need your vote for a wolf. Simple as that. :)

[satansaloser2005]

I don't need your enthusiasm. I need your vote for a wolf. Simple as that. :)

Do you care which one? ;)



K, gonna make a post about Pitch and....erm, never mind, just saw the time. :(


Well this is anti-climactic.

[Morsul the Dark]

A lot to catch up on...

And the reason I'm defensive is this, whenever I try to think I know I think differently than others, they jump down my throat for being "weird"

anywho reading then maybe voting

[wilwarin538]

Nog was in no trouble, and yes he's a likely wolf target...but seriously you can say everyone is a wolf target! Lommy, Legate, Pitch, Inzil, sally, Izzy myself, you...wilwa I swear everyone has been killed by the wolves on Night 1 before.

I think many of those people would have also revealed in this situation, atleast I would have anyway (and I've been killed first night only once in 20 games). But with potentially 2 Night kills it is a risk to not get that information known. I suppose it doesn't make "perfect" sense, but it makes more sense then the other scenarios.

[Boromir88]

I don't need your enthusiasm. I need your vote for a wolf. Simple as that. :)

That's one thing in your favor, is with the ratio of wolves to innocent, making the seer reveal now as opposed to if you are in lynch-danger, you face the threat of having more sinister minds around to try to discredit the reveal and actually get you lynched.

But, excuse me for not immediately buying you're claim to be the innocent seer. Nor, if you are, being very happy with our seer being out on Day 1, when I don't see the reason in it. It may very well be true that this was the best thing you could do for the village, but you've questioned some things I've done as an innocent, so don't mind my questioning of what the udun you're doing if you're innocent.

[Nogrod]

I don't need your enthusiasm. I need your vote for a wolf. Simple as that. :)I just realised that might sound rude. Sorry Boro. That was not intentional (if it sounded rude).

What I meant - with my ear for English language - was: I don't need you to enthusiastically join the lynch, we just need you to join it, whatever your feeling about my status is.

As you guys discussed, even the wolf-seer would give a wolf - not delivering a wolf would be madness indeed as that would result in a firm lynch the next Day. But as has been noted, a wolfseer would not do that on D1 as s/he would have a wolfranger to protect him the first gameNight. So s/he would act on D2 the earliest.

And well, there's lots to discuss toMorrow. But now I need to go to sleep for real.

[Inziladun]

Decisions, decisions.

I think it likely Nog really is some sort of Seer. I do think it's unusual for him to have revealed this early, especially when he was in no danger of being lynched. Normally, if a revealed Seer's dream turns out to be a wolf, we have a pretty good indication they're legitimate. That isn't the case this time. However, regardless of whether he's a wolf or the Seer, he now has a large target on his back. If he's a wolf, I can't see him thinking this would really be a smart move.
Also we have twice the risk of being Night-killed than normal, so maybe that does explain his wanting to get this out soonish.


++Lommy

x/d with Wilwa, Boro, and Nog

[Boromir88]

I just realised that might sound rude. Sorry Boro. That was not intentional (if it sounded rude).

Did not take it as rude, and I was probably more rude in my last post. Apologies if it was.

And well, there's lots to discuss toMorrow. But now I need to go to sleep for real.

That we can agree on.

++Lommy

[Pitchwife]

OK, that changes quite a lot of things.
So I have no idea what kind of Seer Nog is, if any at all (but I'm inclined to believe he's one of the three, as Lommy would be a totally plausible choice of dream for him), and I have to go to bed much too urgently to be able to think it all through toDay. All I know is that I don't see any logical thing for us to do toDay except to follow his dream. Even a wolf-Seer wouldn't risk claiming an innocent to be a wolf, as it would disprove his reveal immediately, so whatever he is, we'll be down one wolf toMorrow and have time to worry about Nog then.

Therefore,
++Lommy

Good night.

[wilwarin538]

Gotta sleep too now...

++Lommy

[Nogrod]

with potentially 2 Night kills it is a risk to not get that information known. I suppose it doesn't make "perfect" sense, but it makes more sense then the other scenarios.Potentially what, 5 kills? Okay that would be tough luck indeed. But the potential is enormous, much higher than in a normal game.

Also I knew Lommy is a wolf and that made me think it highly possible she would like to affect her bunch they checked me - like I needed to know her first.

Okay. Good night!

[The Elf-warrior]

++ Lommy

It's a seer claim. Looks like a great shot at bagging a wolf to me.

X-Posted with Pitchwife, wilwa, and Nogrod.

[Morsul the Dark]

Sally 63 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=625821&postcount=63)
Sally likes to try to reveal quietly... an Italicized "I" adds an emphasis which is odd.


post 66 from sally "Of course, I'm by no means saying we should ignore seer reveals. If a 'seer' comes forward, we take their alleged dreams into account, blah blah. What I'm saying is that we won't know which seer they are, so while we can trust their dreams (hopefully!) we can't trust that they themselves are innocent.

trust a wolf seer really?

"post 48 In other news, I ain't trying this game, at least not like I did last time. I got suspected for trying too hard so if I'm going to be in trouble either way I'm not going to waste hours I could spend doing something productive doing an analysi post Having said that, I'll still be semi-active. Just not a lot of wordy brain power."

83 And I'm not even on Lommie's list.

with all the votes on Lommy I wonder if Sally was left off because she forgt to include her knowing her role

Ok realized DL is really really soon... so just to say after Quickly passing over the few pages here

Sally seems to have the most trouble.

++Sally

[Isabellkya]

I am going to trust Nog on this and ...

++Lommy

[Morsul the Dark]

++ Lommy

It's a seer claim. Looks like a great shot at bagging a wolf to me.

X-Posted with Pitchwife, wilwa, and Nogrod.

Did I miss this post?

[satansaloser2005]

*insert Morsul's 'analysis' of me*

Wow. That's....that's just special, Morsul. Lol. *pets you*


I'd like to point out that not only does that make no sense, it's....just wrong. Lol.



EDIT: Aw, crap, I forgot that it wouldn't quote the whole post. I've removed the quote 'cause it just looks silly. His conclusions just don't make sense, that's what I'm trying to say.

[satansaloser2005]

Did I miss this post?

Yup. Yup, you did. Poor thing. *gives cookie*

[satansaloser2005]

Aaaand everyone just lazes for the rest of the Day. :(



Is anyone hanging around?

[The Elf-warrior]

In the interests of full disclosure, I'd like to say the last sentence of my last post was added a few minutes later.

[Morsul the Dark]

by the way with 6/14 wolves you have about 50% chance of being a wolf... so it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Of course I can't use a computer just to "pop" in and out all day I had to read and vote in about 20 minutes I'm sorry you feel my thoughts aren't fully formed.

[Inziladun]

Is anyone hanging around?

I'm here. In a dress. :p

[Loslote]

Question for the moddess: will we be notified when a wolf dies, of which pack they are from?

Yes.

Question to the Moddess:
What happens if both packs together equal or outnumber the innocents? Do they devour the innocents jointly before turning against each other (as I'd assumed), or does one of the packs have to outnumber the innocents by themselves?


They do not. There can only be one pack to eat the innocents.

Snuggles to the first person to give me a vote count...:Merisu:

[satansaloser2005]

by the way with 6/14 wolves you have about 50% chance of being a wolf... so it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Of course I can't use a computer just to "pop" in and out all day I had to read and vote in about 20 minutes I'm sorry you feel my thoughts aren't fully formed.

No, sorry, I thought you'd read everything and had still seen fit to vote me. This way makes a lot more sense.

Although you still took my posts completely out of context. Doesn't bother me that much, as long as you make sure to read them the right way so you get the right idea of what I was talking about.

And thanks for the clarification, Elf. Lol I need to come up with a nickname for you. Tewie just looks weird to me and I don't feel polite saying EW. ;)

[satansaloser2005]

I'm here. In a dress. :p

:Merisu:

[The Elf-warrior]

I'm feeling more sympathetic with Nerwen's edit situation now. You can just call me TEW.

[satansaloser2005]

*likes snuggles*


Kit-->Dun
Lommie-->Shasta
Nog-->Lommie
Legate-->Pitch
A bunch of people-->Lommie
Morsul-->Sally
More people-->Lommie


So....
Lommie: a lot
Dun, Shasta, Pitch, Sally: 1



Close enough? ;)

[The Elf-warrior]

Modess, should we disable the highlighting when we quote a vote?

[Inziladun]

Kit--> Me (1)

Lommy--> Shasta (1)

Nog--> Lommy (1)

Legate--> Pitch (1)

Sally--> Lommy (2)

Me--> Lommy (3)

Boro--> Lommy (4)

Pitch--> Lommy (5)

Wilwa--> Lommy (6)

TEW--> Lommy (7)

Morsul--> Sally (1)

Izzy--> Lommy (8)

x/d with Sally- no snuggles for me

[Loslote]

*snuggles Sally...and Zil too*

Elfie, that would be lovely.

EDIT: Just had to snuggle Zil.

[Loslote]

Deadline. Hush up, y'all. :p

EDIT: Dang it, computer clock's fast. Sowie.

[satansaloser2005]

Kit-->Dun
Lommie-->Shasta
Nog-->Lommie
Legate-->Pitch
Sally-->Lommie
Dun-->Lommie
Wilwa-->Lommie
Pitch-->Lommie
Boro-->Lommie
Elf-->Lommie
Morsul-->Sally
Izzy-->Lommie


Which makes it Lommie 8, Dun, Shasta, Pitch, and Sally 1.

Yet to vote: Shasta, Nerwen

EDIT: x'd, lol. *snuggles Dun, btw*

[satansaloser2005]

And Silly Sally said to Little Lottie....why aren't you on IM? I miss you. :(

*zips it, for it be DL*

[Loslote]

"Oh, no!" wailed the villagers in carefully coordinated unison. "Lottie and Hakon are dead!"

"Wait, wait!" Sally said. "Try that line again, but this time to the tune of Yankee Doodle."

"Yankee Doodle?" Zil asked.

"Nah. Let's try singing it to a simple scale," Kit suggested.

Everyone tried it and agreed that they sounded good.

"We sound good," Nerwen said.

"We could form a band and go on a world tour," Wilwa suggested.

"Except for the fact that six of us are evil," Shasta pointed out.

"Well, other than that," Pitchie said.

"We could go Carribean," Izzy said, pulling out a couple of coconuts.

"Where'd you get coconuts?" Elfie asked. "We live next to Belegaer; there are no coconuts here."

"Maybe they migrated," Shasta said.

"Migrating coconuts?" Nerwen groaned.

"Maybe a penguin brought it," Boro suggested. All eyes turned to Lommy.

"Don't be silly," Nog said. "Penguins can't fly."

"Yeah, but if she tied the coconuts to her legs she might be able to float," Morsul said.

"Penguins can float anyway," Zil said.

"Penguins swim. They can't fly," Lommy said.

"Then how did you bring the coconuts?" Sally asked.

"I didn't!" Lommy said.

"I'm confused and my head hurts where someone dropped a coconut on it," Pitchie moaned.

"Let's settle this once and for all," Wilwa said.

"Yeah!" Morsul agreed. "Let's throw her off a cliff and see if she flies!"

"I was thinking we could just ask Izzy where she got the coconuts," Wilwa said. "But your way is more fun."

"Wait, what?" Lommy said.

So the villagers threw Lommy off the handy-dandy nearby cliff into the ocean. A few minutes later, a drowned wolf's body washed up onshore. It had a crystal ball clutched in its jaws.

~~~

Living:
Kit
Sally
Pitchie
Zil
Morsul
Wilwa
Boro
Nog
Shasta
The Elf-warrior
Nerwen
Izzy
Legate

Dead:
Lottie (amazingness itself :Merisu:)
Hakon (co-mod)
Lommy (seer!wolf for Pack Ladybug)

[Loslote]

"I'm scared," one of the Aphidian wolves whimpered. "Did you see what happened to Lommy? Those villagers are evil!"

"That's why we're killing Nerwen," xyr packmate said. "She's the scariest of the lot."

"Oh. Right. I forgot," the first wolf said.

But when they got to Nerwen's house, they realized they weren't alone.

"What are you doing here?"

"What are we doing here? What are you doing here?" asked one of the Ladybug Wolves.

"We're killing Nerwen!"

"Oh no you're not! We're killing Nerwen!"

"Oh no you're not," Nerwen agreed, and ran away.

"Now look what you've done!"

"Why is she attacking Sally?"

"I don't know, but somehow, I don't really mind."

"Noo!" wailed Sally. "Save me, my love!"

"I can not!" cried Shasta, kneeling beside her. "But I swear, by Day's end, I will have joined you in death.

"Why are they getting the spotlight?" Nerwen grumbled. "I'm the one getting wolf-killed here."

"Actually, we'd quite forgotten," an Aphidian admitted. "Thanks for reminding us!"

"...dang," Nerwen said. She tried to run again, but was too slow, and was caught and killed.

"Hmm," a Ladybug said. "Tasty enough, I suppose, but she pales in comparison to last Night's dinner."

"Trufax," an Aphidian agreed. "Too much running beforehand."

"Next time we mustn't let them run."

"Definitely."

"Hey, look! A cliff!" Morsul said, and jumped over it.

"What was that?" Shasta asked.

"He had to quit," Lottie said. "He can explain why if he wants to."

"Ah. Hey, wait - you're dead!"

"Oh, I'm just awesome. Don't try to understand."

"Okay."

~~~

Dead:
Lottie (delicious dinner)
Hakon (minion)
Lommy (Ladybug Seer!wolf)
Nerwen (Hunter)
Sally (Lover)
Morsul (Ordo)

Half-Dead:
Shasta (doomed Lover)

Living:
Kit
Pitchie
Zil
Wilwa
Boro
Nog
The Elf-warrior
Izzy
Legate

Commence Day 2!!

[Boromir88]

ahaha, the wolves actually go for the same person and there is still massive death....fabulous. :rolleyes:

[Inziladun]

So...both packs went after Nerwen, who was the Hunter. She killed Sally, who was one of the Lovers. And Shasta was the other half of the Lover pair, and he dies at the end of the Day? And now there are five wolves and five ordos alive, including Shasta.
Nog?

x/d with Boro

[Nogrod]

Nog?After finally reserving our plane-tickets to the US I stalled in discussions on the healthcare bill in there and am awake still (seriously needs to go to sleep now).

But I have good and bad news to you.

The good news are, my dream was not wasted with the number of deaths that occured last Night.

The bad news are I can't produce a wolf to you.

Let's see some arguments. I'll take part as soon as my school-day is over.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

...Well that's fun. And me without my revenge kill.

[wilwarin538]

Wow, so our worst case scenario yesterDay of the hunter, lovers and whatnot all being chosen actually almost happened. Luckily they had both chosen Nerwen, or that could have been far worse.

I doubt anyone is surprised Sally was a lover, she practically admitted it yesterDay with the whole "I'm not on any team thing". Kind of surprised then that Nerwen hunted her, I suppose she must have not seen what I saw.

So 10 people left. Well ShastaLove will be dead by the end of the Day, Nog is the Seer, so that's 8 people left. 5 of them are wolves, the other 3 are what, Ranger, Unicorn and Anti-Lover? So we don't actually have ordos than? Is my math right?

If I'm right than Nog has dreamt of either the Ranger, Unicorn or Anti-Lover. If it's the Ranger he should stay quite, since they're crazy valuable. If it's the Unicorn I suppose it doesn't matter either way, since they're good to have alive, but if they do die we just get another innocent back anyways. Would be nice to have the Anti-Lover known, since they are fairly harmless, half their mission is done, they just want to live now, I actually like the idea of having a completely unbiased person around anyway, and that's one less person we have to worry about (though, actually also one less person the wolves have to worry about, and at this point having a harmless known innocent around should be the least of their worries).

*is excited to know, and is hopeful that it's what she hopes it is*

*goes to sleep*

Be back in about 10 hours.

x'ed with Shasta, and fixed some odd spelling mistakes

[wilwarin538]

...Well that's fun. And me without my revenge kill.

I believe last time you were a Lover with a revenge kill you started spouting Shakespeare and killed me, if I'm remembering that correctly. So I'm kind of happy you don't have one. :p Though I wouldn't mind some Shakespeare, might make up for a few things. :Merisu:

*goes to bed for real this time*

[Isabellkya]

So.. how did Morsul end up dying?

[The Elf-warrior]

I'd like to correct something I said yesterDAY. I also played Werewolf with the late Sally in Werewolf XLVIII, Virtual Reality. Wilwa, that "I'm on no team thing," passed me by. After I read about her desire to run away with Nilp/Shasta, I suspected they were lovers, but that suspicion slipped from me in the hustle and bustle of other things. Also, I realized that the lovers aren't really evil. I wouldn't have thought that a lover would be so blatant about it. When I read that the two were lovers, I thought to myself that I should have known.

Something caught my eye in one of Lommy's posts, Izzy - gives me good vibes this far. No idea why since she didn't talk much more sense than anybody else. Could Lommy have dreamed of Izzy? On the other hand, she may be Lommy's packmate. Or I'm reading too much into this statement.

Looking back at the rules, I noticed that a wolf!seer is told the gifts of his or her dreamee. Maybe Lommy dreamed of Nerwen and told her pack. However, this doesn't explain why both packs ate her. Was Nerwen putting out hunter vibes I completely missed?

I'm not surprised neither pack went after Nogrod. I think one of the trains of wolf thinking going on was that if they left Nogrod alive, people would be more likely not to trust him. This wouldn't neutralize his potential wolf reveals, but it would make people less likely to trust his analysises and innocent reveals. Also, it is/was likely that the ranger protected Nogrod. In conclusion, I don't find Nogrod's continued survival very suspicious.

Isabellkya, I think Morsul asked to be killed because RL was too encroaching. "Hey, look! A cliff!" Morsul said, and jumped over it.

"What was that?" Shasta asked.

"He had to quit," Lottie said. "He can explain why if he wants to."

[Inziladun]

Looking at what the living (excluding Nog), said of Lommy.

Lommy:
#24: answers Legate about revival mechanics, agrees with his concern about the number of wolves, is worried by the presence of two packs, warns against wasting votes and voting random (good point); gives a list of impressions so far (which I won't recap here, because most of it is just either/or);
#34: thinks I'm too careful/serious, agrees with Nog about wilwa's question in #25, is pessimistic about the killing speed; wilwa's song not a cobbler hint as there is no cobbler; agrees w/ Nerwen's call for discussion of game mechanics and offers some ideas, which I'd like to comment on:

This sounds completely plausible to me - getting rival wolves lynched will help them gain our trust while they go on eating us under cover of the Night. But then -

Both Legate (who called it a 'good remark') and Nerwen agreed with this; and it's true, of course. But what exactly is the point of stating it? In other words, is there any conclusion to be drawn from this warning that will be in any way helpful, other than that we should mistrust those who make good cases and put effort into finding wolves? In that case, whom should we trust, or rather, on what basis should we decide whom to trust? Or shouldn't we trust anybody at all? Thanks, I think we knew that to begin with...
Conclusion so far: two lengthy posts that sound reasonable enough, but most of it is actually general remarks about the situation and being wavery about people, looking more helpful than she really is (especially that last point I've just commented on).

Not worried about:

Lommy - for some reason, not looking like her Wolfish self.
Morsul - looking like his innocent self (although that said, I haven't been playing with him for some time, so he might have "developed").

Which leaves Lommy- Active. Maybe a little 'Captain Obvious' stuff, but nothing radar-pinging.

I have a feeling I'm going to have a difficult time finding someone to vote for. I have some weird vibes from some, like Sally for her anti-realism, and Shasta's Nilpyness (which I find funny, but unhelpful/unnecessary), and Pitch, but I think I always get bad vibes from him Day 1, then usually feel better later on, so I likely wouldn't vote for him. I do feel quite good about Kit, Izzy and Lommy, and Nog and Inzil aswell, since they all seem to act the way I would expect them too. So I'm not sure yet.

Slightly more greener area, i.e. more inclined to think as innocents (okay, now I see I should have chosen to distribute the color scheme somewhat differently, but whatever): Lommy (genuine-looking), Morsul (looking like his innocent self), Boro (honestly reasonable-looking)

Would like to trust, but ain't sure I can:
Boro - not sure why, but he feels more innocentish than usual this time. There could be some collusion 'tween him and sally or not, I don't know.
Legate - most of what he says is sensible, maybe too good to be true? What I'm most worried about is the amount of agreement between him, Lommy and Nerwen.
Lommy - as I said before, looking mostly sensible but hard to really pin her down on either side.

x/d with TEW

[Inziladun]

Something caught my eye in one of Lommy's posts, Could Lommy have dreamed of Izzy? On the other hand, she may be Lommy's packmate. Or I'm reading too much into this statement.

Lommy was a Seer!wolf, not the village Seer. I'm not sure why you think it's possible she may have dreamed of Izzy based on that quote. Why would Lommywolf say something positive about someone she had dreamed? She would only want to lynch or Night-kill them.

[Kitanna]

I..er...wow. That's...wow. Such the bloodbath last night.

Why would Lommywolf say something positive about someone she had dreamed? She would only want to lynch or Night-kill them.
If you look at the rest of that list Izzy is the only one she had felt good about. And she admits she has no real reason. It's a stretch that Lommy dreamt Izzy and revealed it in her first post, but maybe it's something to take into account. There is definitely something strange with Lommy's reasons for Izzy in that first post.

But in her third post she has this to say:
Nerwen seems genuinely innocent, which doesn't point at anything. Nogrod looks quite good too even though poor him is busy. I'm also quite liking Zil and Kit's recent posts. The problem is, it's very unlikely they're all good and innocent. Falling back to my old "oh no, I don't suspect anyone" habit, I guess... Not nice.
Lommy seems to give no reasons for trusting any of these people. In fact she's all over the place. I do believe she probably listed her dream, but by post three she's listed five people who she is inclined to believe are innocent and she only had one dream. I doubt she dreamt of Nogrod or she'd have tried very hard to have him lynched. Perhaps Nerwen was her dream? That would explain why at least Lommy's pack went after her in the night. However, by Lommy's post she's moved Nerwen to the enigma category. Me thinks my tired brain is looking for a hint in Lommy's posts that simply isn't there.

I will return after some sleep to make sense of Lommy's posts and my thoughts on them.

[The Elf-warrior]

Another correction. A wolf!seer only learns the gift of an innocent dreamee. At least that's how the modesses edited first admin post reads. The Seer!wolves receive one dream every Night. If the Seer!wolf dreams of a rival wolf, they are only told that the player is a wolf, not their gift. If the Seer!wolf dreams of a gifted, they are told what the gift is. However, in a later post she says Simulation has been run. A solution has been found. However, I have not been able to contact Hakon to tell him, so please hang on until I can get confirmation.

The Seer!wolves can't see gifteds. However, I think this later post has less weight.

Inzil, yes, I know she was a wolf!seer. I thought she may have been laying the groundwork for a possible fake seer reveal in future. A fake seer has to be accurate to believed, right?

Kitanna, I think Lommy might have dreamed of Nerwen. Nerwen - LYNCH HER! Erm... *cough* Could Lommy have learned that Nerwen was the hunter? Not a certainty by any means, (after all, Nerwen expected such a reaction from Lommy anyway) but I think its a possibility.

[Loslote]

However, I think this later post has less weight.


Elfie dear, never take what I say when I'm arguing with Hakon seriously. Listen to the Admin thread, minions, Seer!wolves can see gifteds...

[satansaloser2005]

I just lost the game. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game))

[Loslote]

I just lost the game. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game))

Yes...yes you did.

So did I, btw. Grr. ;)

[satansaloser2005]

So did I, btw. Grr. ;)


Twice, actually. Hehe.

[Loslote]

Twice, actually. Hehe.

...*facepalm*

Oh, and for all you people who aren't a Lover:

Muahaha. ;)

[Nerwen]

Sorry about that, Sally (and Shasta). :(
I thought your lover-hinting seemed too obvious to be real.

*is an idiot*

*a dead idiot*

*shuts up*

[satansaloser2005]

Sorry about that, Sally (and Shasta). :(
I thought your lover-hinting seemed too obvious to be real.

*is an idiot*

*a dead idiot*

*shuts up*

Ah, more on that on the insane o'clock news. ;)

*hugs you*

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm so confused as to why the dead people are posting on the thread but I'm not against it.

[satansaloser2005]

I'm so confused as to why the dead people are posting on the thread but I'm not against it.

MY LOVE! *attack!glomps, holds onto you tightly*

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I must say that I didn't really believe this will happen, but as it's been said, at least there was one less kill than there might have been (resp. two less, although in such a case there would be at least one dead Wolf). If I were to find something positive about the situation, it's that a) there's been this both-packs-doing the same, which, if they are attacking Nogrod toNight again, will reduce the kills and with good luck one of the packs might be eliminated by a few Days (like by two Days), so there will be no double Night kills - that's not so much of a consolation, but anyway; b) such a thing will not repeat itself (at least not without at least one Wolf going down as well), c) there are still two Unicorns, so there are effectively +2 innocents in the game still.

Anyway, yesterDay was luck, for that matter, looking from the light of it, maybe Nogrod was really right to choose to act at this moment rather than later, because looking at the last Night's events, he might have been as well dead by now if he didn't reveal. So, good job, Nog! And maybe the timing was good too, as there was not much time for discussion (and I do not pity the unanimous voting list, as, honestly, we won't learn *that* much from the votes anyway with this kind of... people in the village).

That said, I am inclined to trust Nogrod. There is like a tiny possibility that he might be a WolfSeer, but it's basically illogical, as in a game like this there is NO reason for pretending to be a Seer in order to survive, as somebody will always want to kill you sooner or later (and if you are fake, somebody will counter-reveal). Unless he'd be really playing it kamikaze in hope that the game will end in two Days or something, but I don't believe that'd happen. And we'll see for 100% toMorrow, I'd just hope to think that the Ranger had bluffed.
I doubt anyone is surprised Sally was a lover, she practically admitted it yesterDay with the whole "I'm not on any team thing". Kind of surprised then that Nerwen hunted her, I suppose she must have not seen what I saw.
Interesting to note, as I have never noticed anything at all. That said, you spoke about Anti-Lover possibly coming forth, indeed AL is basically the last Ordo remaining (well, and the Unicorn, sort of), but I wonder if that makes any sense, because by people revealing, we are also making things easier for the Wolves. And then it's only a matter of strategy from their part and I doubt they would leave Innocents alone totally.

Shasta does not get a revenge kill, right?

Wait, so there are no Ordos at this point anymore? Wonderful. But that'd mean there was only one Ordo to begin with? (Poor Morsul :D )

What I find quite curious, however, is the choice of Nerwen by both packs, I think I will look through yesterDay. As in: was there no other choice for any of them?

I don't think there's a good deal to know whom Lommy dreamed about, but I am not sure if that knowledge would be any good to us either.

Sorry about that, Sally (and Shasta). :(
I thought your lover-hinting seemed too obvious to be real.

*is an idiot*

*a dead idiot*

*shuts up*

And now, okay, even though I feel I should not quote dead people, I feel like a total idiot as well, because I haven't noticed any lover hints at all, where everybody else seems to have noticed.

[wilwarin538]

MY LOVE! *attack!glomps, holds onto you tightly*

*gags* :p

That said, you spoke about Anti-Lover possibly coming forth, indeed AL is basically the last Ordo remaining (well, and the Unicorn, sort of), but I wonder if that makes any sense, because by people revealing, we are also making things easier for the Wolves. And then it's only a matter of strategy from their part and I doubt they would leave Innocents alone totally.

Well, I wouldn't call them an ordo, that implies they're on the village's side, which technically they are not, they're on their own, especially now that the Lovers are almost all dead.

I don't think a LommySeerWolf would be too obvious about her dreams, though I suppose it depends on the dream. Could be that she dreamt of Nerwen and that's why she said the whole "lynch her" thing. But really I doubt the evil seer made any hint, atleast regarding her dream, that could be helpful.

Another thought though, considering the last game I wouldn't be surprised if both wolf seers dreamt of Nerwen Night 1, and that's why both sides went for her last Night.

*really wants Nogs dream now plz*

[Inziladun]

I'm so confused as to why the dead people are posting on the thread but I'm not against it.

I was wondering about that myself. No doubt it's part of a diabolical plan of the moddess to keep us utterly confused.

That said, I am inclined to trust Nogrod. There is like a tiny possibility that he might be a WolfSeer, but it's basically illogical, as in a game like this there is NO reason for pretending to be a Seer in order to survive, as somebody will always want to kill you sooner or later (and if you are fake, somebody will counter-reveal).

I think it speaks even better for Nog now, as we know one of the Seer!wolves was Lommy. That reduces the odds of his being evil.

What I find quite curious, however, is the choice of Nerwen by both packs, I think I will look through yesterDay. As in: was there no other choice for any of them?

It's possible that, with Nog being guarded as they might think, they just saw her as a logical second choice. It is a rather remarkable coincidence that they both picked her though. .

I don't think there's a good deal to know whom Lommy dreamed about, but I am not sure if that knowledge would be any good to us either.

I think trying to divine her dream is basically not useful to us. For what it's worth, maybe it was Shasta. That's who she voted for, I think.

[wilwarin538]

Just saw this:

c) there are still two Unicorns, so there are effectively +2 innocents in the game still.

If the wolfUnicorn dies we get another innocent right? So I get the feeling that that wolf pack is really protecting their Unicorn, because I doubt they want to lose one of their own and create another innocent at the same time. Our Unicorn, well if they stay alive cool, cause that's just like having an ord, if they die than we get another innocent, potentially with a gift like hunter or seer, depending on who's dead when the Unicorn dies. So really it wouldn't be all bad if our Unicorn gets killed, we won't be any further behind regarding numbers of innocents, and we could be potentially ahead regarding how many gifteds are around (getting another seer or hunter back for example).

Anyway, I wouldn't say there are +2 innocents at this time, we could potentially get 1 more innocent if the wolfUnicorn dies, but if ours does than our number of innocents stays the same.

Wait, so there are no Ordos at this point anymore? Wonderful. But that'd mean there was only one Ordo to begin with? (Poor Morsul)

I just love this. Cause everyone is acting like an Ord, when no one is one. We're just all a bunch of liers aren't we? :p (except Nog and Shasta though, and well I'm not really, but you guys obviously don't have to believe that ;) )

Oh, and for all you people who aren't a Lover:

Muahaha.

*glares*

x'ed with Inzil, yay someone's here!!!

[wilwarin538]

For what it's worth, maybe it was Shasta. That's who she voted for, I think.

That's possible too, and I'm sure the wolves are loving that the Lovers are dead(ish) cause that's, well, lots of death.

But yeah, she only had 1 dream, and it likely wasn't hinted too at all. Innocent seers hint because they can't communicate to their people directly, evil seers don't have to do that because the people on their side they can just PM with, no reason to hint about their dreams to the other team(s).



edit: fixed was to wasn't, cause it made no sense the other way

[wilwarin538]

Just letting everyone know that I have to work today and my shift ends well after DL, and I likely won't be able to come on at work. So my vote will come in less than 4 hours, and than that will be all from me.

[Boromir88]

I have a little time on my lunch break to say a few things. One being I'm going to be at the school verrrry late today. I don't think I'll be able to get back here until about 7, so please don't leave me lots of drivel to sift through 2 hours before the DL? Kthanks. :)

Lommy was a Seer!wolf, not the village Seer. I'm not sure why you think it's possible she may have dreamed of Izzy based on that quote. Why would Lommywolf say something positive about someone she had dreamed? She would only want to lynch or Night-kill them.

She could have been laying the foundations for a fake seer reveal later (I think TEW said this already?), but I don't see much of a point in the whole thing. As Pitch said yesterday, why would it be the wolf-seers hinting about their dreams? They can communicate with other packmates, and I can imagine one of the other wolves looking like the seer as a decoy, but not the wolf-seers. Besides, what good is it trying to scower through Lommy's posts to try to find some vague hint about her one dream? It all looks like a red-herring to get us distracted by a virtually meaningless subject, and I suspect those doing it the most. With half you lot being evil now, I like my chances.

The only thing I could gleam from Lommy's posts are Shasta was probably innocent because of her vote for him. However, that's moot now.

As far as Nog, I seriously did not doubt you were the real seer at all yesterday (ok, that's a lie. Perhaps I did a little...think you were the wolf-hunter giving up a member of the rival pack and trying to get the real seer out so you kill him/her). I was hoping to stage a fight between us, and make it look like I'd go against you if you weren't attacked yesterday. However, seeing as it looks like no one is jumping for that bait, and are going to be content with trying their luck at killing you tonight....

I doubted, and hence my frustration, what the heck you were doing. I was under the impression with this many wolves the seer would want to get as many dreams as possible and not come out and reveal for no reason on Day 1. I see why you did it now though, I vastly under-estimated the amount of death that was possible at night. I mean the packs went for the same one and still look what happened!

The fortunate thing is, since they did go for Nerwen, they can't and won't trust eachother. Also, looks like we have 2 different packs, but both operating under the same ideas/reasons, and hence both went after the same person.

[Kitanna]

I went back to read all the posts AFTER Nogrod pegs Lommy as a wolf in the hopes maybe one of her packmates slipped up. I ignored posts by Shasta, Sally, Nerwen, and Morsul.

Wilwa: Believes him to be the seer, seeing that it makes sense for an innocent seer to reveal as he did rather than run the risk of being killed in the night. In a later post she defends Nogrod's reveal from Sally and Boro.

Legate: Placed Nogrod in his yellow area, but he also admitted he didn't have the time to recheck the thread before turning in for the night. He placed Lommy in his green section. At the end of his post he added an edit about having seen what Nogrod revealed.

Boro: Asks if a wolf seer would reveal so soon. Puts forth several possibilities to other avenues. (such as wolf seer trying to look good, non-wolf seer trying to benefit his pack, I'm guessing he means lead the village away from the real wolf seer.) In a later post explains why he didn't want to jump on board and trust Nogrod without considering other options.

Izzy: Seems to agree with Wilwa and trusts Nogrod. Feels Legate is buttering Nog up.

Zil: Trusts Nogrod it looks like, but finds it unusual that he revealed when he was in no danger.

Pitch: Believes Nogrod to be a seer because no one would be foolish enough to lead us to lynch an innocent.

TEW: Knows it's a seer claim, nothing else really said.

Conclusions:
Wilwa: At first I was wary because she so readily agreed with Nogrod. But as I read on in her posts after that initial one she made good points as to why an innocent Nogrod would reveal so soon. Her continued defense of his reveal speaks more innocent to me than wolfish.

Boro: I like that Boro considered other options as to Nogrod being a wolf revealing to look good. I'm inclined to trust for this because he continued to defend this position that he didn't want to enthusiastically jump into believing Nogrod without giving it some thought. The fact that Wilwa and Boro both felt strongly enough in one direction or the other that they kept defending their points rather than just agreeing and voting makes me think more innocent at this point.

Legate: Didn't have time to really react in full to the reveal, but his brief reaction was suspect to me. He immediately glomped onto Nogrod it looked like and had a sort of "oh darn I was wrong about you and Lommy" all along.

TEW, Zil, Pitch, and Izzy: All are hard to read not giving much away after Nogrod's reveal. For the most part all fall into "Nogrod is telling the truth because why would he lie so early?" category. Legate falls into this too, but his "you were right, I was wrong" edit in his vote post seemed forced.

Unfortunately I can't come home from work on my lunch break to vote. There hasn't been a whole lot of activity today either and I was in a time crunch so I could only focus on a small number of posts. But here's my vote.

++ Legate

Of all those that reacted after the reveal of Nogrod his seemed the most forced. It looked as though he was trying to pull himself closer to Nogrod and distant himself from Lommy. Possible packmates?

Best of luck for the rest of the day.

[Pitchwife]

Our Unicorn, well if they stay alive cool, cause that's just like having an ord, if they die than we get another innocent, potentially with a gift like hunter or seer, depending on who's dead when the Unicorn dies.
wilwa, unless I completely misunderstand what you're talking about we've been through all this yesterDay. Revived innocents come back as ordos. If they were gifted before (as almost everybody in this crazy game seems to be), they'd of course remember their dreams and picks from their previous lives, but they'll no longer be gifted. At least that's how I read the Rules.
I'd assume a wolf would be concerned enough about the possibility of a Seer returning from the grave to get that straight, so this little bit of confusion makes me rather more inclined to believe you're innocent. Or is this just what you'd like us to think?

Pitch: Believes Nogrod to be a seer because no one would be foolish enough to lead us to lynch an innocent.
Actually, that's two different things:
1. The part about the stupidity of getting an innocent lynched with a fake reveal was my reason for believing that Lommy was indeed a wolf; and if whosoever gives us a wolf, we lynch the wolf and worry about the Seer-claimant later.
2. My reason to believe that Nog is a Seer (and not a masquerading Hunter or something else) is simple psychology - as in, when I saw he claimed to have dreamed Lommy I immediately thought "Of course he would", it's just like him to pick her for his first dream.
That last post of mine was made in a bit of a hurry before going to bed, and I was quite tired by then, so maybe I didn't express myself that clearly.
Now the remaining question is whether Nog is the village Seer or the surviving wolf-Seer; only time will tell, I suppose, but as long as we don't know, let's follow wilwa's good advice from yesterDay: trust his wolf dreams, be wary about his innocent dreams. If his wolves conveniently happen to be all from the same pack, however, that might be reason to worry about his alignment.
Just to make myself completely understood: I honestly wish and hope Nog is our true Seer, I'm just not prepared to utterly rule out the other possibility, however unlikely it may seem.

Going to look a bit at Lommy's interactions now.

[wilwarin538]

wilwa, unless I completely misunderstand what you're talking about we've been through all this yesterDay. Revived innocents come back as ordos. If they were gifted before (as almost everybody in this crazy game seems to be), they'd of course remember their dreams and picks from their previous lives, but they'll no longer be gifted. At least that's how I read the Rules.
I'd assume a wolf would be concerned enough about the possibility of a Seer returning from the grave to get that straight, so this little bit of confusion makes me rather more inclined to believe you're innocent. Or is this just what you'd like us to think?


Ok, I think you may have misunderstood me, or the rules, unless I don't get the rules maybe. The way I see it let's say 3 innocents are dead: A was an Ordo, B was a Hunter, C was a Seer. The Unicorn then dies. Lottie puts the names of A, B, and C in a hat and picks one out, that is the person who comes back to life. Then to decide the role that person comes back with she puts all of the "dead" roles into a hat (so Ordo, Hunter, Seer) and then that's the role of the person who comes back.

So for example if the Unicorn was to die toDay either Sally, Nerwen or Shasta would come back, and their possible roles would be Ord (cause of Morsul) or Hunter, since you can't have a lone lover so that wouldn't be considered.

So yes, like Nog is Seer now, if he dies toNight and can't give us his dream, but then the Unicorn dies and let's say he comes back as the Hunter, he'll have a different role, but could still share that other dream with us. So the wolves would certainly be concerned for the Unicorn to die, since it could create more gifteds, and if their own Unicorn dies than that's even worse since they could lose a packmate and create another gifted all at the same time.

Or am I completely misinterpreting this role?

let's follow wilwa's good advice from yesterDay: trust his wolf dreams, be wary about his innocent dreams

I also said that not thinking that a seer would reveal Day 1. This would definitely have applied if the seer reveal had been later, but I seriously have a hard time believing an evil seer would reveal on the first Day. Especially since he had no risk of being lynched, and (if he was evil) would have a wolfRanger to protect him at Night. So I think because of that we can believe him.

Goodness, I really hope Nog shows up before I have to leave.

[Pitchwife]

wilwa, about the Unicorns - I believe I've already quoted the pertinent passage from the Admin thread, but once more:
If the WereUnicorn is killed, one of the dead players is returned to life. The dead player used to be innocent and will then be an ordo.
[...]
Unicorn. Same as the WereUnicorn, except on the innocents' side.
Bolding mine.
So yes, if Nog in your example is revived, he'll be able to give us the dream he had as a Seer, but he won't be a Hunter or otherwise gifted.
What we do get from a Unicorn's death is a revived known (un-gifted) innocent, which the wolves will want to avoid as long as possible; you're right about that part.

[Nogrod]

Okay. Finally here for a short while.

If you Wilwa need to go soon, just vote whom you think is the most suspicious. I'd rather not say anything on the dream as yet - and if you pick badly I can suggest the others to avoid that choice. Okay?

Hmm... some thoughts to follow. (I've just read the thread and have to pause for a thought first).

[wilwarin538]

Ok, then that was certainly my mistake, I think the way I discribed it was how it was originally planned, I must have missed the change there. Hopefully I don't confuse anyone with my last post then. But yeah, either way the wolves still want to avoid it.

So I have to leave like, now. I'm going to try super hard to get back on here before DL, but I really don't think I'll be able to, so I'm going to have to vote now.

So who's left:
Kit
Pitchie
Zil
Wilwa - will not vote for
Boro
Nog - will not vote for
The Elf-warrior
Izzy
Legate

Pitch, Legate and Inzil I feel good about (and one of them has to be guilty by math, I just don't know which). Boro, I forgot was playing. Izzy I think just made that one little comment at the start of the Day, which is odd. Kit I'm fairly ok with. Elfie, I have no idea.

So there are 7 people I could vote for. 5 are wolves. I really think we could all just vote random and probably still get a wolf. :rolleyes:

gah, I really have to go.

++Izzy

Mostly random, I'll admit. But mathematically I have a 5 in 7 chance of being right, so I'm cool with those odds.

Yeah, I'm going to have to come back.

*hopes Nog dreamt me and wolves are logical*

x'ed with Nog, oh come on man, you're killing me here with the suspense...*leaves for real*

[Nogrod]

First of all: I do like happy faces around but sadly I need to bring my fellow innocents down a bit. There are ten people around toDay of which one innocent (Shasta) is able to vote but otherwise is practically dead already.

That leaves four innocents against five wolves (in teams of 2 and 3).

The next Night the wolves will kill me and because neither team can afford to count on the other team to do it, so they both come my way. So no innocent will be killed in the coming Night except me. *prays the ranger gambled last Night*

So how will toMorrow look like?

If we lynch an innocent toDay it will be:
2 innocents - facing 5 wolves
and
2 wolves (pack A) - facing 5 enemies
3 wolves (pack B) - facing 4 enemies

So you can see who has reason to be cheerful and who has not... :rolleyes:

Well, if we lynch a wolf toDay it will be:
3 innocents - facing 4 wolves
and
1 wolf (A) - facing 6 enemies
3 wolves (B) - facing 4 enemies
or
2 wolves (A) - facing 5 enemies
2 wolves (B) - facing 5 enemies

That would be far better for us. So let's put some effort into this.

I need to go to sleep quite a lot earlier I did last night so I can't hang around up to the last hours of the Day - and I still need to read a bunch of essays today. So how about everyone able to be online within the next three hours or something came up with more or less a list of suspicions and possible trust? With reasons.

That's just a suggestion.

[Nogrod]

As it looks pretty quiet I think I'll do my essay-reading right now. I'll be back in about an hour and will then put myself into this for real for an hour or two.

Hoping to see people coming online meanwhile...

[Inziladun]

Not a lot of time at the moment, as it's the middle of my workday again. TEW interests me greatly. I've never played with him before and have no indication of his 'normal' style, but some bells are ringing.
Ah, who am I to let work get in the way of WW? ;)

AAAGH! We're in big trouble, no mistake about it. OK, anybody wanna confess? Anybody? *shrugs*

Classic 'Oh, dear, evil wolves are after us', a furry staple.

Well, it's pretty quiet here. I guess I'll do a recap.

Post #1 and #2 Modess narration.
Post #3 The Elf-warrior expresses panic. He asks if anybody wants to confess.
Post #4 Wilwarin538 writes a song for the pleasure of the modess. It is a parody of a Barenaked Ladies number called Another Postcard. She needs to go to bed and wake up the next morning to get a blood test. She might be able to post before then. She expresses doubts about her physical condition.
Post #5 Modess congratulates Wilwarin538 on her song parody. (She compliments The Elf-warrior in an edit.) She calls the two her minions.
Post #6 Shasta shows symptoms of multiple personality disorder.
Post #7 Izzy turns The Elf-warrior's question back on him. He compliments Wilwa on her song. He also jokes that channeling Nilp is lynch-worthy.
Post #8 The Elf-warrior proclaims his innocence. He parodies a song by Black Sabbath called War Pigs.
Post #9 Satansaloser jokingly expresses a desire to run away with Nilp.

Could be seen as nothing more than an effort to appear helpful.

No, Isabellkya. We need a better reason than a werewolf themed parody of a song about paper communications from chimpanzees.

That was in answer to this from Izzy:

Should we lynch Wilwa now for professing her paper communications between herself and wolves? Or did I read that wrong?

which was fairly obviously a joke. An attempt to cast some early suspicion for future case building?

++ Lommy

It's a seer claim. Looks like a great shot at bagging a wolf to me.

A vote for Lommy, the 7th, then this:

In the interests of full disclosure, I'd like to say the last sentence of my last post was added a few minutes later.

Why the need for the disclaimer? Extra conscious of editing after the suspicion dropped on Nerwen, though he himself said Nerwen's slip was a 'sign of innocence' in her?

I'd like to correct something I said yesterDAY. I also played Werewolf with the late Sally in Werewolf XLVIII, Virtual Reality. Wilwa, that "I'm on no team thing," passed me by. After I read about her desire to run away with Nilp/Shasta, I suspected they were lovers, but that suspicion slipped from me in the hustle and bustle of other things. Also, I realized that the lovers aren't really evil. I wouldn't have thought that a lover would be so blatant about it. When I read that the two were lovers, I thought to myself that I should have known.

Something caught my eye in one of Lommy's posts, Could Lommy have dreamed of Izzy? On the other hand, she may be Lommy's packmate. Or I'm reading too much into this statement.

Looking back at the rules, I noticed that a wolf!seer is told the gifts of his or her dreamee. Maybe Lommy dreamed of Nerwen and told her pack. However, this doesn't explain why both packs ate her. Was Nerwen putting out hunter vibes I completely missed?

I'm not surprised neither pack went after Nogrod. I think one of the trains of wolf thinking going on was that if they left Nogrod alive, people would be more likely not to trust him. This wouldn't neutralize his potential wolf reveals, but it would make people less likely to trust his analysises and innocent reveals. Also, it is/was likely that the ranger protected Nogrod. In conclusion, I don't find Nogrod's continued survival very suspicious.

Isabellkya, I think Morsul asked to be killed because RL was too encroaching.

All this seems rather overblown with the explanation of why he didn't catch Sally's Lover hints. Why is that important to clarify? And the focus on Lommy's dream is counterproductive and time-wasting. The Seer!wolf's dream is simply a tool to help the wolves know whom to target. The subject of her dream would probably have been a target of hers for lynching, and maybe her packmates could latch on if possible. Unless there was some apparent concerted action between Lommy and some others, I don't see how we could connect her dream to her packmates. And the votes were altered because of Nog's reveal.
Also, there's quite a bit of rumination on why Nog wasn't targeted. Really, the likeliest reason is that the packs feared the Ranger, be it a Ranger!wolf or a the village Ranger. His theory has the feel of something that might have been previously discussed with someone else....

Kitanna, I think Lommy might have dreamed of Nerwen. Could Lommy have learned that Nerwen was the hunter? Not a certainty by any means, (after all, Nerwen expected such a reaction from Lommy anyway) but I think its a possibility.

More about Lommy's dream. It just looks like trying too hard to look useful.

Really must go for now. But TEW is worrying.

[Pitchwife]

Bah, I skimmed through Lommy's posts again, but with the way she was flip-flopping or being just vague about most people all the time, if there are any ties to her packmates in there I can't see them.

I feel good about Izzy, however, exactly because Lommy was so positive about her (neglecting the unsolvable question who her dream was). I don't think Lommy would have associated herself so clearly with a packmate or a rival wolf, but I can see her buddying up to an innocent, maybe with an intention to leave Izzy tainted later in case she'd survive Lommy. Plus I've seen nothing suspicious in Izzy herself.

I'm trusting Nog to be the true Seer until proven otherwise. There is, to repeat myself, still a possibility he's a wolf-Seer pulling a daring act (and I don't think this would be quite as implausible as the majority seems to believe), but what's most important, I've seen nothing in his pre-reveal behaviour that would make me suspect him.

I don't really know what to think of wilwa. She said some clever things in the discussion about Seer reveals yesterDay, and her reaction to Nog's reveal looked good, but otherwise she's either genuinely confused or acting confused and trying to confuse us, I don't know which.

Kit still looks good to me, I like the way she thinks and looks at things. The reason for her vote (Legate's edit-reaction to Nog's reveal) was a bit meager the way she presented it (meaning that the fact he made that edit in haste may have been in part responsible for it looking 'forced'), but I agree with her that Legate seemed to be in a big hurry to accept Nog's claim.

Now, Legate himself. I said yesterDay he and Lommy seemed to be agreeing quite a lot; looking back, it seems the only thing they explicitely agreed about was Lommy's remark that in this game, people who go after wolves aren't necessarily innocent (on which I commented at the time). The other thing I noticed (and of course I would) was the way they sort of played ping-pong with suspecting me for diverging reasons, none of them very clear. (In contrast, our late sally - to put this in a family-friendly way - quite annoyed me with the way she went after me, but she at least presented something remotely resembling a case.) Looking at what they said about each other, Legate was quite unwavering in finding Lommy not suspicious at all, whereas Lommy found him 'wishy-washy', 'fishy' or generally feeling offish; in my eyes, this is just the kind of passing suspicion a wolf would post about a packmate - enough to distance herself from him just in case, not enough to make anybody else suspect him seriously. So if you want to know whom I don't trust, here's one. Not any more.

Posting this now, and then looking at the rest.

EDIT: x-ed with Zil.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I'm back and I must say I have expected far more posting here, but well, the village is not exceptionally big anymore all of a sudden.

Also, I wonder if it might have something to do with the amount of Wolves...

Anyway... a few brief reactions... then I will probably post some summing post when I try to clarify my views on people. By the way, Nog, I hope you are going to post your dream sooner rather than later (with your infamous staying up till five ;) ), as some people in your timezone would like to know it before they go to sleep - especially toDay as it's crucial for innocents not to vote innocents...

It's possible that, with Nog being guarded as they might think, they just saw her as a logical second choice. It is a rather remarkable coincidence that they both picked her though.
Well, but why a "logical" second choice? What's so logical about it? Or do you know something I do not??

Legate: Didn't have time to really react in full to the reveal, but his brief reaction was suspect to me. He immediately glomped onto Nogrod it looked like and had a sort of "oh darn I was wrong about you and Lommy" all along.

(...)

Of all those that reacted after the reveal of Nogrod his seemed the most forced. It looked as though he was trying to pull himself closer to Nogrod and distant himself from Lommy. Possible packmates?
Okay, I am not sure if I understand what you are trying to say, but it does not make sense to me. I have not reacted to Nogrod at all yesterDay, I have only cross-posted with him and I was about to go to sleep, and my exclamation there was reaction to the fact that somebody has made a Seer-reveal at the moment when I was just leaving the thread for good (I had about five and half an hour before I was supposed to wake up the next day at that time, so I did not want to stay up and start reading Nogrod's posts and thinking whether he is a Seer or not. I decided to just go to sleep and leave it be).

EDIT: X-ed with PW and once again, the same thing as above - I don't see when I have yesterDay accepted Nogrod. I had no time to accept him or not, I have been sleeping...

[Pitchwife]

I'm not at all sure I like the case Zil made against TEWie just now. I said yesterDay that TEWie's early posts didn't feel quite right to me, but all in all, it rather looks to me like he's somewhat out of WW practice after a long interval and trying hard to get back the feel for it. (I don't know how many games he's actually played before his temporary retirement, so if someone could enlighten me whether he's a true veteran or has just played a few games now and then, that'd be nice. Thanks.) That's not saying he can't be a wolf, of course, but if you want to convince me, try harder.

EDIT: x-ed with Legate

[Pitchwife]

Well, but why a "logical" second choice? What's so logical about it? Or do you know something I do not??
I don't know what Zil was thinking of, but in my eyes Nerwen was rather quiet, balanced and non-committing even by her own usual standards (which is why I put her in my 'unsure/suspect' category yesterDay), so I'd imagine to both packs she could have seemed either a rival wolf or an innocent gifted; therefore not necessarily the logical choice, but a logical choice.

[Inziladun]

Well, but why a "logical" second choice? What's so logical about it? Or do you know something I do not??

Logical for two reasons. One is the fact that Nerwen has quite a fearsome reputation, and justifiably so, for wolf-hunting. The second is that on Day 1 in this game she wasn't terribly active, and thus would have left little trail.

I'm not at all sure I like the case Zil made against TEWie just now. I said yesterDay that TEWie's early posts didn't feel quite right to me, but all in all, it rather looks to me like he's somewhat out of WW practice after a long interval and trying hard to get back the feel for it. (I don't know how many games he's actually played before his temporary retirement, so if someone could enlighten me whether he's a true veteran or has just played a few games now and then, that'd be nice. Thanks.) That's not saying he can't be a wolf, of course, but if you want to convince me, try harder.

It doesn't pay to underestimate someone on the basis of newness or a long absence. I'm only going off what I see. If you're not 'convinced', that's fine. :rolleyes:

x/d with Pitch's last

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

With basic logic, there are five Wolves out of seven people I can choose from (or any innocent, for that matter). If Nog gives his dream, the numbers will even decrease (for everybody except the person he dreamt about).

I really see the only chance of Nog being the other Wolf-Seer in being kamikaze-ish and hoping for the game to end soon enough so that he is not killed by the other pack. Unless the pack really counted on their Ranger and the innocent Ranger taking turns in protecting him, however, we must not forget that there will be also the other Seer, the real one. We didn't have any counter-claim, that's one quite big reason why I trust him.

So now after looking at people, the basic outline is this:

Kit - I don't get her points against me, seemed more innocent yesterday, now might be pretty well one of the WWs trying to find easy grounds to eliminate somebody on.
Pitchie - I cannot get rid still of this pitchparanoia, although his behavior has gotten somewhat better since yesterDay, he started writing posts with some "dynamic". But with such a high percentage of WWs, it's quite easy to keep him in the guilty part of people. The last remark joining Kit's misinterpretation of me also could have been nice jumping a bandwagon.
Zil - I wasn't sure about this remark I quoted above, that looked as if he was knowing something more than an "average mortal" does.
Wilwa - in general sounded innocent in the sense of accepting Nogrod and even general behavior, however, especially with the rules confusion recently, it looked slightly manufactured. As if acted. But then, in total, I have more innocent impression from her.
Boro - Also this explanation of his yesterDay reaction of Nogrod looked slightly manufactured. Could have been, once again taking into account the amount of WWs in here. Otherwise he tried to be "reasonable" before, but again, that's no proof here.
Nog - see above
The Elf-warrior - actually not much to go about with him, although he might be a typical prototype of a Under-the-Radar-Flying Werewolf.
Izzy - also not much to go around, more innocent feeling than not, but hard to say. Although I think either she or TEW probably might be a WW (or maybe both, with each team having their own under-radarer...).

There's a lot to choose from, but there's also a large choice. The main point is - toDay's main appeal on all the Innocents - in simple words, not to lynch an Innocent (for these reasons, I will probably refrain from voting any of the more enigmatic people - TEW, Iz - unless I get more reading on them). It is not that difficult by maths, and funnily enough, the hope is also to attract Wolves to vote for a Wolf.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Logical for two reasons. One is the fact that Nerwen has quite a fearsome reputation, and justifiably so, for wolf-hunting. The second is that on Day 1 in this game she wasn't terribly active, and thus would have left little trail.

Okay, well, that would clarify it a bit. I just got the feeling that you sounded a bit too "confident" about this. For that matter, these of course are reasons, but still a bit curious as to why both the packs thought about the same person. Hm, it would be fun to try to run a simulation of several packs of people and try whether there'd be a person who, if in any of the packs, would not want to have Nerwen killed, and thus making one get a clue that he or she is an innocent, but I guess my knowledge of everybody's psychology is not yet on that high level, not to mention the number of combinations possible... :)

Well. Anyway, I might led Inzil slide a bit backwards among my suspects now, but still there is something to think about...

[Nogrod]

Something caught my eye in one of Lommy's posts, Could Lommy have dreamed of Izzy? On the other hand, she may be Lommy's packmate. Or I'm reading too much into this statement.

Looking back at the rules, I noticed that a wolf!seer is told the gifts of his or her dreamee. Maybe Lommy dreamed of Nerwen and told her pack. However, this doesn't explain why both packs ate her. Was Nerwen putting out hunter vibes I completely missed?

I'm not surprised neither pack went after Nogrod. I think one of the trains of wolf thinking going on was that if they left Nogrod alive, people would be more likely not to trust him. This wouldn't neutralize his potential wolf reveals, but it would make people less likely to trust his analysises and innocent reveals. Also, it is/was likely that the ranger protected Nogrod. In conclusion, I don't find Nogrod's continued survival very suspicious.

Also, there's quite a bit of rumination on why Nog wasn't targeted. Really, the likeliest reason is that the packs feared the Ranger, be it a Ranger!wolf or a the village Ranger. His theory has the feel of something that might have been previously discussed with someone else....EW's post caught my eye as well when I read through the posting from toDay, but I must say I feel contrary to Inzil. If EW had discussed things with a pack of mates he probably wouldn't have said those things...

First of all Lommy dreaming of Izzy and then publicly saying she's a goodie is just plain oddity a wolf taking part in a Nightly discussion would not think. As Wilwa and Boro have said: there is no reason for a wolfseer to give hints of her dreams during the Day as they can PM & discuss the findings at Nights. And to say "I like her" as a hint just looks odd as there is none on their side outside those three they already know themselves.

So making such a misunderstanding speaks heavily in favour of EW not being involved in any Nightly discussions.

Izzy being her packmate is possible, although I think Lommy's buddying up with her looked more like a wolf making friends with an innocent to gain some good will ("I like her"). Befriending that openly with a packmate would sound quite daring indeed.

Talking of Lommy's dream on N1 the only arguable / plausible idea to me seems to be that she might have dreamt of Izzy and found her innocent thus trying to buddy up with her).

But back to EW. Also the idea that Lommy found out Nerwen and signalled her mates is an odd way to think (yeah, she would have just plain told them during the Night and that's it) - not to say that the hunters are basically the last people the wolves love to try and kill. Although in this case it might be argued they'd like to try the hunter on D1 rather than Day X in the future? But anyway it's still unbelievable she'd need to point out anyone to anyone in public - and a wolf would know that.

Also the way in which he seems to "come to the conclusion" that he doesn't think my continued presence too suspicious looks more like someone trying to think of it himself and coming to a conclusion (making both cases first: the possibility of trying to undermine the believability and the fear of the ranger) rather than a wolf suddenly bringing forwards such an idea. Why would a wolf bring forward such a point as if someone would have distrusted me (and it was early in the Day then) it would have suited them so much better?

So all in all, I'm tending to think EW more innocent than not. That is not "knowledge-based" but just my opinion based on what I have read thus far.



But then again, I'm not so sure about Inzil.

First of all his case against EW looks like an easy case a wolf might make - hoping that EW wouldn't be able to put up a real counterfight or defence and as everyone will see EW's points are somewhat odd people might accept that kind of case as the "easy lynch".

What I do wonder as well is this (quoted up there as well):
Really, the likeliest reason is that the packs feared the Ranger, be it a Ranger!wolf or a the village Ranger.Hmm... You seem to be quite deep inside with the situation. I had to read this like four times before I realised what this meant!

But it is clear now as I realised it. So if Lommy's wolf-team feared I was the wolfseer of the other team... then they might have feared the wolfranger might have been there to prevent them from killing me. Okay... so you guys feared someone from the other pack protected me? :D

And as I think I said yesterDay, his appearance on Lommy's list looks the most bothersome to me.
Zil - seems more reasonable than most, although I can't remember anything in particular that he said, which could be eyebrow-raising. He is not giving the sinister vibes he so often is when he's evil. I can see Lommy buddying up with the others for various reasons but somehow Inzil being there looked to me a bit out of place, especially regarding the way she made it.


Okay, X'd with a host. A small pause, reading and then back.

[Pitchwife]

OK, who else is still alive?

Shasta - dead Lover walking, 'nuff said.
TEWie - see my #191 for what I think of him.
Boro - I like it that he didn't completely fall out of his chair with enthusiasm to embrace Nog as the true Seer. On the other hand, I think the question of Nog's alignment (or his being a real Seer or a decoy) was beside the point as far as the pragmatics of voting Lommy or not were concerned. On the third hand;), he was probably trying to get an interesting response from Nog by questioning him as long as the iron was hot, so to speak, which was rather a good idea, as well as probing who would latch on to his alleged doubts. All in all, looking rather goodish.
Zil - needs some more thought and re-reading.

EDIT: x-ed w/ Zil, 2 Legates and Nog

[Inziladun]

EW's post caught my eye as well when I read through the posting from toDay, but I must say I feel contrary to Inzil. If EW had discussed things with a pack of mates he probably wouldn't have said those things...

First of all Lommy dreaming of Izzy and then publicly saying she's a goodie is just plain oddity a wolf taking part in a Nightly discussion would not think. As Wilwa and Boro have said: there is no reason for a wolfseer to give hints of her dreams during the Day as they can PM & discuss the findings at Nights. And to say "I like her" as a hint just looks odd as there is none on their side outside those three they already know themselves.

So making such a misunderstanding speaks heavily in favour of EW not being involved in any Nightly discussions.

Izzy being her packmate is possible, although I think Lommy's buddying up with her looked more like a wolf making friends with an innocent to gain some good will ("I like her"). Befriending that openly with a packmate would sound quite daring indeed.

Talking of Lommy's dream on N1 the only arguable / plausible idea to me seems to be that she might have dreamt of Izzy and found her innocent thus trying to buddy up with her).

But back to EW. Also the idea that Lommy found out Nerwen and signalled her mates is an odd way to think (yeah, she would have just plain told them during the Night and that's it) - not to say that the hunters are basically the last people the wolves love to try and kill. Although in this case it might be argued they'd like to try the hunter on D1 rather than Day X in the future? But anyway it's still unbelievable she'd need to point out anyone to anyone in public - and a wolf would know that.

Also the way in which he seems to "come to the conclusion" that he doesn't think my continued presence too suspicious looks more like someone trying to think of it himself and coming to a conclusion (making both cases first: the possibility of trying to undermine the believability and the fear of the ranger) rather than a wolf suddenly bringing forwards such an idea. Why would a wolf bring forward such a point as if someone would have distrusted me (and it was early in the Day then) it would have suited them so much better?

So all in all, I'm tending to think EW more innocent than not. That is not "knowledge-based" but just my opinion based on what I have read thus far.

I can see your points about TEW. I found myself not even considering him when I looked at tht situation toDay, and thought I'd go back and look closely. As I said, newbies can be wolves, and they can many times more easily slide through without suspicion. The things I noted caught my eye. Now, keep in mind that I am at work (still) and haven't had a chance to thoroughly analyze everything properly.

Hmm... You seem to be quite deep inside with the situation. I had to read this like four times before I realised what this meant!

But it is clear now as I realised it. So if Lommy's wolf-team feared I was the wolfseer of the other team... then they might have feared the wolfranger might have been there to prevent them from killing me. Okay... so you guys feared someone from the other pack protected me? :D

And as I think I said yesterDay, his appearance on Lommy's list looks the most bothersome to me.
I can see Lommy buddying up with the others for various reasons but somehow Inzil being there looked to me a bit out of place, especially regarding the way she made it.

So, I posit a reason why you were not targeted last Night (which merely seems logicial) and I'm suspicious, however TEW, who's been doing the same thing, isn't?
And I can't help what Lommy said about me any more than can Izzy, or Kit.

x/d with Pitch

[Nogrod]

So, I posit a reason why you were not targeted last Night (which merely seems logicial) and I'm suspicious, however TEW, who's been doing the same thing, isn't?I hadn't actually revisited your post on it so I can't say. I need to check it. But what striked me the most was that EW seems to be a little "off-the-basics" in a way and therefore I'm inclined to think he was just not on top of the things.

And I can't help what Lommy said about me any more than can Izzy, or Kit.Yeah, that's the problem... Actually I remember a host of times I have cursed my packmates for speaking stupidly about me - or wolves addressing an innocent me like I was related to them...

But I do think we have better lynches toDay than you... if it helps. ;)

[Pitchwife]

EDIT: X-ed with PW and once again, the same thing as above - I don't see when I have yesterDay accepted Nogrod. I had no time to accept him or not, I have been sleeping...
OK, I just went back to check what exactly you said:
EDITNOTE: Okay! It took me a long while to sum my thoughts on this post and anyway it wasn't enough time, but it took long time for some things to happen on the thread, but I am not going to react on that! I have to go to sleep! Too late, incredible, why? I cannot think about it now. Nogrod! Why? Okay. I can't think about it now. GOOD NIGHT. Posting and voting as I have decided before. No other chances. (This effectively means, crossed with all the Nogrod stuff!!!!)
Sorry, you didn't really say what I thought and claimed you'd said. I plead guilty of following Kit's representation of you based on a mixture of my memory of that post and what you said about Nog toDay, without checking what you really said at the time. I apologize for that and agree that Kit was misrepresenting you.
This doesn't touch my other reasons for suspecting you as given in my #189.

EDIT: removed one redundant 'toDay' in the paragraph before the last.

[Nogrod]

Sorry to have mislead you a bit. I do have a wolf for you.

*tadaa!*:)

Realising last night that the Day had begun when I was just going to sleep, it came to me I could try to make the wolves feel more relaxed and thus possibly reveal something they wouldn't if they knew I had one of them caught.

Well, sadly there's little the trick has produced due to the slow posting toDay. If I'd have time to play this to the end of the Day and be there to reveal the lynch at the last moment I would have postponed this revelation. But today I really need to go to sleep in time so that is kind of blown up scenario.


So sorry to destroy the voting-record once again but then again we have a wolf on the menu! :cool:


++ Legate



Let's use the rest of the Day thinking what can we infer from this.

The first thing coming to mind is the accuracy by which Kitanna chose Legate (see the weakness of the reasons she gave). It is perfectly possible Kit is the other wolf-seer. I mean if Lommy and Legate are on the same pack then I'd say Kit is a noteworthy candidate at the other wolfseer - and Pitch might be aligned with Kit.

But if Lommy and Legate turn out being wolves of opposing packs... then I'd trust Kit a bit more. Although it's possible that Lommy dreamt of Legate on N1 (quite probable indeed if they were on opposing sides!!!) and now Kit tries to even out the situation between the two rivalling teams (as Lommy has informed the other two that Legate plays for the opposing wolf-team). Heh, that sounds actually more believable.

But we'll know about the teams only after Legate is lynched.


Legate, you can go to sleep now and need not stay up too late. :D

[satansaloser2005]

*dances, sings in a completely unintelligible fashion*

I know something you don't know....





Now isn't that disconcerting?

[Nogrod]

A short add-on: I see Pitch fell back from his suspicion on Legate a bit while I made my post. I'd still say that if L&L are on the same side it would be plausible Pitch and Kit are wolves from the other pack trying to get it done away with the other side. But if L&L are on the opposing sides... then Kit/Pitch would be on Lommy's side and try to get even with the other team... well, that is a possibility to be taken seriously as well.

Of course it is possible *reads: possible* both Kit and Pitch are just very sharp-eyed innocents able to spot Legate (two out of four hitting it the right way!!!) - or that one of them is.

I'd be amazed if they both were goodies...


EDIT: corrected a logic-mistake...

[Nogrod]

I know something you don't know....
Those of us able to stay awake will know something in 2½ hours I think. And that is not disconcerting... :)

[satansaloser2005]

Those of us able to stay awake will know something in 2½ hours I think. And that is not disconcerting... :)

Ah, but I still know something you don't....many things, in fact, but it's just rude to brag, don't you think? ;)

[Pitchwife]

Sorry to have mislead you a bit. I do have a wolf for you.
I know everybody can say this with hindsight, but I had a hunch something like this might be coming...
And once again, Of course you would. And if you're indeed our Seer (as I assume you are), bloody well done.
++Legate
Back with my thoughts about Zil soonish.

EDIT: x-ed with 2 sally-revenants and 2 Nogs.

[Nogrod]

but it's just rude to brag, don't you think? ;)Yeah. You're a rude person Sally. You should be ashamed of yourself! ;)

I had a hunch something like this might be coming...
Heh, I was actually thinking was I being too obviously a cheat... Looks like I was. Maybe that's why the wolves have been careful not to post too much toDay? If yes, then I have played badly.

But I do think that if Kit actually is a wolf she would have acted differently if I had said I have a wolf... Well, who knows?

[Inziladun]

But I do think we have better lynches toDay than you... if it helps. ;)

Even before your dream I would have said I agree with this, but then I am a bit biased on that.

So sorry to destroy the voting-record once again but then again we have a wolf on the menu! :cool:


++ Legate



Let's use the rest of the Day thinking what can we infer from this.

The first thing coming to mind is the accuracy by which Kitanna chose Legate (see the weakness of the reasons she gave). It is perfectly possible Kit is the other wolf-seer. I mean if Lommy and Legate are on the same pack then I'd say Kit is a noteworthy candidate at the other wolfseer - and Pitch might be aligned with Kit.

But if Lommy and Legate turn out being wolves of opposing packs... then I'd trust Kit a bit more. Although it's possible that Lommy dreamt of Legate on N1 (quite probable indeed if they were on opposing sides!!!) and now Kit tries to even out the situation between the two rivalling teams (as Lommy has informed the other two that Legate plays for the opposing wolf-team). Heh, that sounds actually more believable.

But we'll know about the teams only after Legate is lynched.

Something else we can perhaps glean from Legate's lynch is this: whether Nog is the innocent Seer or not. If you survive toNight, and Legate and Lommy were packmates, there is still a remote possibility you are the opposing Seer!wolf. If they weren't, you are entirely cleared in my mind. That may come in handy to know, as then all your words can be taken to have one cast or another.

At any rate:

++Legate

[satansaloser2005]

Nog: Why thank you! ^_^

:Merisu:


I'm off to find cryptically helpful yet misleading Youtube clips to foist upon you all!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, well, that was horrible and utterly unexpected. One comes to check if the slow discussion has moved anywhere, and finds again something similar like yesterDay...

To be honest, I was thinking now about going to sleep, something like "if only I could go to sleep earlier today", but I did not mean it that way for certain. I don't know what were you thinking, Nogrod, but... well. There being some ten people in total, of whom five have already voted, and four for me, I don't expect much. I guess it does not make much sense to expect the village to turn around on this lynch. Well, I am going to cast my vote for the other person who has any votes apart from me, I guess that's the closest to saving myself as I can get. You are making this game's voting lists rather dull, Nog, do you know that?

++Izzy

Let me note by killing me, you are sealing the fate of the innocents even more than it was before. I will accept the fate, shut up and join yesterDay's victims in the mass grave. Means getting more sleep. Although it would have been fun to be here for a while yet. Whatever. Good luck to whoever deserves it, death to all false Nogrods.

[Pitchwife]

I'd be amazed if they both were goodies...
Me too, now I realized how twisted her representation of Legate was. In fact, doing the maths and realizing there are only 5 non-wolves left (that is, 4 innocents + 1 neutral Anti-Lover)... let's see:
1 Seer
1 Ranger
1 Unicorn
1 semi-dead Lover (Shasta)
1 Anti-Lover

Assuming Nog to be the Seer, knowing Shasta to be the remaining Lover, and knowing (which you don't) myself not to be a wolf, that leaves two non-wolves. If I had to bet my last penny on who those two are, I'd say Boro and Izzy. There.

OK, now Zil. I don't really feel up to going through all his posts again, but his case against TEWie has all the marks of grasping for reasons to substantiate a 'suspicion' that was decided on beforehand. (Note that according to the maths and what I've said about my inclinations above, TEWie is likely to be a wolf nevertheless, but still.)

EDIT: x-ed with Nog, Zil, sally's ghost and Legate.

[Isabellkya]

Dang. I missed interesting things while at work.

I would have possibly been suspicious of Legate a bit toDay, mainly because his reaction to Nogrod's reveal yesterDay was very similar to Lommy's reaction to it. Essentially 'no time, no time to deal with you right now'.

I said yesterDay that it felt like Lommy was trying to be nice to me, as an 'I won't vote you, you don't vote me' kind of thing.

Both packs going after Nerwen is just a bit strange.

As well as the attitude towards Nog's dreams in terms of the dreamed. Perhaps it is a timezone thing, and it it really late at such time, when the brain shuts down.. Meh don't know. But it just seems a 'meh' attitude towards it.

++Legate


X'd with Pitch.

[wilwarin538]

*dances, sings in a completely unintelligible fashion*

I know something you don't know....


Now isn't that disconcerting?


Ha, well Sallycakes, I know what one thing is that you know that the others don't. ;)

And I'm so so tempted to spill, cause I had this whole "why nobody should kill me" speech ready, but at this time seeing as I was not Nog's dream, to my disappointment, and seeing as I doubt the wolves will try to kill me toNight (it would be a waste of one of their kills anyway, since I'm not a threat to them) and they have Noggins to worry about anyway, I think I may shut up for toDay. Even though that whole thing, and other things I've said, should make it obvious. :rolleyes:

*goes back to work*

Good night all!

[Inziladun]

OK, now Zil. I don't really feel up to going through all his posts again, but his case against TEWie has all the marks of grasping for reasons to substantiate a 'suspicion' that was decided on beforehand. (Note that according to the maths and what I've said about my inclinations above, TEWie is likely to be a wolf nevertheless, but still.)

So you yourself say TEW is 'likely to be a wolf', yet you think my case on him flawed.
You know, Pitch, if Legate and Lommy do turn out to have been on the same side, I'll have to entertain the notion you and Nog are packmates. Not TEW though, since both of you surely wouldn't have been so careless as to defend TEW so openly.
Time will tell.

x'd with Wilwa

[Nogrod]

If you survive toNight, and Legate and Lommy were packmates, there is still a remote possibility you are the opposing Seer!wolf.I'd love to face that "remote possibility"! I'd stand for it right to the face! :)

But the wolves have no other choice but to kill me, both the teams need to go for it... but can they trust the other team to go for it as well? Wouldn't the other team just take advantage of your team and pick one of yours away to win while you spend your kill on the seer?

Rot with the prisoner's dilemma wolves! :D

Heh, rot with it... you guys have only bad choices; either letting the innocents to take the numbers or let the other team possibly get an edge on you.

Now I'd love a ranger who gambled last Night... that would be perfect.


You are making this game's voting lists rather dull, Nog, do you know that?Yeah, I know. And I already apologised for it. But two wolves on two Days is some comfort for that. :)

[The Elf-warrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Elf-warrior http://forum.barrowdowns.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?p=625742#post625742)
AAAGH! We're in big trouble, no mistake about it. OK, anybody wanna confess? Anybody? *shrugs*

Classic 'Oh, dear, evil wolves are after us', a furry staple.

You have a point in that that would appear suspicious. Well, the appearance of suspicious doesn't always mean one is lupine. Erm, trust me?

Inzy comments about my recap: Could be seen as nothing more than an effort to appear helpful. Wouldn't an innocent also try to appear to be helpful? Frankly, there wasn't much to go on.

In regards to my response to Izzy, well, I didn't realize it was just a joke.

About my edit statement, yes I was self-conscious about editing after I basically accused Nerwen of improper editing. I didn't want to be a hypocrite.

I obsessed over Sally's lover hints because I it was something to talk about.

And the focus on Lommy's dream is counterproductive and time-wasting.Point taken.

Really, the likeliest reason is that the packs feared the Ranger, be it a Ranger!wolf or a the village Ranger. His theory has the feel of something that might have been previously discussed with someone else....How about inside The Elf-warrior's own head?

It just looks like trying too hard to look useful. I tried to be useful.
I guess I failed.
Whoa! Another seer revelation.

++Legate

[satansaloser2005]

I've got something for you....

^_^ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGfmzTebIQs)

[Boromir88]

Dull, yes, but a hell of a lot easier on me. I'll do better tomorrow....hopefully

++Legate

[satansaloser2005]

You know, you are making some pretty major mistakes, people.

*rolls eyes* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUee1WvtQZU)

[Inziladun]

I've got something for you....

^_^ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGfmzTebIQs)

The voices of Charlie's 'friends' are highly disturbing.

[Pitchwife]

So you yourself say TEW is 'likely to be a wolf', yet you think my case on him flawed.
Yep. I my eyes, his likelihood of being a wolf is entirely based on maths and on who I think the two remaining innocents are, not on anything particularly wolvish in what he did or said, and it leaves open the possibility that I'm mistaken. I can think like that and still not like your case, can't I?
As you say, time will tell.

wilwa and sally - stop messing with my mind, please. Unless our Moddess has some surprises up her sleeve that she hasn't told us (which is quite possible, I admit) I haven't got a clue what you're talking about. And I've got to go to sleep now. "Kthanxbye."
Good night.

[Nogrod]

Okay here are my last points as I need to wake up in something like four hours...

After Legwolf is lynched toDay, then toMorrow there will probably be alive:

Kit
Pitchie
Zil
Wilwa
Boro
The Elf-warrior
Izzy

Of the seven four are wolves; probably 2-2 but possibly 3-1 - leaving three innocents.

My guts would say the three innocents are Izzy, EW and wilwa/Boro.

That's not the seer talking about things he knows. That's just what I feel for the people without a detailed analysis - which I sadly have no time to delve into.

That means I might be terribly wrong with anyone of them or many of them (can one err with many from three?).

I do suspect Kit a lot. Not knowing I knew Legate was a wolf she managed to pick him from everyone with weak reasoning (so she knew it some other way eg. she's from the competing wolf-team?) - and honestly: Legate played soo well! I'd say anyone claiming they caught Legate with his pants down just by reasoning are not honest - or then they are just magnificient ww-players, real clairvoyants.

Not knowing there was a known wolf to-be Pitch joined Kit's cause possibly in hopes to get a rival wolf done away with adding momentum to the cause?

If Inzil is a wolf I'd say he is in the same pack with Lommy. The reasons why he was in Lommy's goodie list just look odd and his case against EW looks a bit too opportunistic - in a situation where the seer has informed there is no known wolf, mind you!

That's one innocent's perspective right now. Not a known truth.

The alignments of the lynched wolves will tell a lot.


Good night and good Night!

Not so much hoping to see you toMorrow but crossing my fingers for you to deal with the baddies.


PS. Go back to your coffin Sally! :D

[satansaloser2005]

Wilwa: I love you. But I must say....Heh, heh, heh. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl2sxFKGf7c&feature=related)

[satansaloser2005]

Nog: What coffin? I'm not quite dead yet. (SO too lazy to link that one. Come on!)

Nerwen: We could've been so good together. I'm just sayin'. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILObfEzX92k)

[Nogrod]

I'm not quite dead yet.


Dead:
Lottie (delicious dinner)
Hakon (minion)
Lommy (Ladybug Seer!wolf)
Nerwen (Hunter)
Sally (Lover)
Morsul (Ordo)

Erm... what was it you were saying? :rolleyes:

[satansaloser2005]

You know, I'm quite disappointed in the lack of Shasta antics toDay.

*runs off to plead with the Moddess for some cookies* Mwahahahaha. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clcza815sao&feature=channel)

[satansaloser2005]

You just wish (http://lukejohnson.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/marty-mcfly.jpg) you were this cool.

[Inziladun]

You just wish (http://lukejohnson.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/marty-mcfly.jpg) you were this cool.

Are you positive you aren't dead (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK0l61SM6YM&NR=1)?

[Loslote]

I was wondering about that myself. No doubt it's part of a diabolical plan of the moddess to keep us utterly confused.

:Merisu:

I'd ask for a vote count, but...

Deadline. Lovers, stop talking - forever. *dramatic music plays*

...or at least for the rest of the game.

All the rest of you, hush up. :p

[Loslote]

“Is a maid’s life thus as fleeting as a Hunter’s life?” Shasta moaned.

“Yes, dear,” Sally said. “Yes it is.”

“Hey, you’re dead,” Shasta said.

“Oh, I hadn’t noticed,” Sally said.

“You hadn’t noticed?” Legate asked, confused.

“Kill Legate,” Shasta ordered. “He interrupted our moment.”

“You already had a moment,” Legate said. “In the morning narration. You are so Night-killed…”

“Um,” Nog said, “I vote we kill Legate anyway.”

Legate facepalmed.

Shall we throw him off the cliff?” Elfie offered.

“No, that’s getting old,” Boro said. “Let’s throw him up the cliff!”

“How would that kill him?” Pitchie asked.

“Good point.”

“We could throw him horizontally, along the cliff,” Zil said.

“How do you throw someone horizontally?” Kit asked.

“That doesn’t even make sense,” Wilwa said.

“Diagonally?” Izzy offered. “No, that doesn’t make sense either.”

“What if we kill him without using the cliff or throwing him off anything?” Pitche said. The others considered this briefly.

“Nah,” Nog said. “I like the cliff.”

“So toss him off it?” Zil said.

“Yes,” Shasta said.

“I didn’t know you were paying attention,” Izzy said.

“I wasn’t,” Shasta said. “I was just agreeing with my beloved Sally that the time has come for me to die.”

“Parting is such sweet sorrow…” the wind said in a voice remarkably like Sally’s.

“That’s because it is my voice,” the wind said. “I’m dead, remember?”

Wait, you can read what I narrate? narrated Lottie.

“Just get on with the narration,” Legate ordered.

“My dear, Sally, we’re already parted,” Shasta told the wind. “My death will reunite us.”

“Oh, good. Well hurry up and die then.”

“Okay,” Shasta said, and jumped off the cliff. The villagers quickly pushed Legate after him. As Legate fell, his last words faded away:

“Aphids R Awxome!!”

~~~

Dead:
Lottie (Moddess of DOOM)
Hakon (co-mod)
Lommy (Ladybug Seer!wolf)
Nerwen (Hunter)
Sally (Lover)
Morsul (Ordo)
Shasta (Lover)
Legate (Aphidian Ranger!wolf)

Living:
Kit
Pitchie
Zil
Wilwa
Boro
Nog
Elfie
Izzy

[Loslote]

Nogrod skipped through a field of daisies while 'It's A Sunshine Day' played in the background.

"Why are you skipping?" Lommy asked.

"Why not?" Nog replied. "Why are you talking?"

"...magic," Lommy said.

"Oh, okay then," Nog said.

"So..."

"Yup."

"This is boring," Legate said.

"Why are you talking?"

"What reason did Lommy give?"

"Magic."

"I'll go with that."

"So who were your packmates?" Nog asked.

"We can't tell you that..." Lommy started.

"...but we will show you," Legate finished, grinning.

"Should I be worried?" Nog asked.

"Yes," the two dead wolves said together. Their packs filed in behind them, surrounding Nog.

"I take it I'm going to die," he said.

"Oh, yeah," Lommy and Legate said.

"Well, can we at least turn off the background music? It's so cheesy."

"Oh, fine," they said. "We thought it was a nice touch, though."

"We're getting bored," the four other wolves said. "Can we just kill him now?"

"Yeah, sure," Lommy and Legate said. "Have at 'im."

"Yay!" the wolves said, and piled into Nog.

~~~

Dead:
Little Lottie Moddie
Hakon (co-mod)
Lommy (Ladybug Seer!wolf)
Nerwen (Hunter)
Sally (Lover/Official Botherer of the Living)
Morsul (Ordo)
Shasta (Lover)
Legate (Aphidian Ranger!wolf)
Nog (Seer)

Living:
Kit
Pitchie
Zil
Wilwa
Boro
Elfie
Izzy

~~~

The Day is starting fifteen minutes early and will end fifteen minutes early. Nightly pmers can continue pming until normal dl. And...go! :p

[wilwarin538]

Our current situation: 4 wolves (1 each of seer, ranger, hunter, unicorn), 1 Ranger, 1 Anti-Lover, 1 Unicorn.

For the villagers to win they need to kill 4 wolves (and killing 1 will result in an extra innocent, which is cool). For either wolf packs to win they have to kill the other 2 wolves and 1 innocent and will probably want to make that innocent the Ranger since that person is a threat, while the Unicorn would be a useless kill, and the Anti-Lover is no threat (if anything a potential ally, depending on what situation can result in them winning).

Basically both sides can win with me being alive, and both sides have more people that are more important for them to get rid of. So there's no reason to kill me. :D

If you still don't know who I am, you haven't been paying attention. ;)

[Inziladun]

So it happened as Nog predicted. No more dreams from him, but at least it worked the way he said, and both packs used their kill on one person.
Seven left, four of them wolves. At least the odds favour a wolf being lynched toDay.
I think the submarines should get some scrutiny toDay, and not just the loud ones.

x/d with Wilwa- it's pretty obvious what you've been hinting at anyway. ;)

[wilwarin538]

x/d with Wilwa- it's pretty obvious what you've been hinting at anyway. ;)

It is? :Merisu:

*giggles*

[The Elf-warrior]

I think I know who the wolves are. I'm guessing Inzy, Pitchwife, Kitanna and Boromir. Anybody want to confess? I won't have much time to read and post in the rest of toDAY, what with work and a school event coming up. Inzy, I'm not gonna be nice to you just because you've accused me. This is war! Nogrod said you seem opportunistic, and I'm inclined to agree. And the math is against you. I know its also against me, but I know who I am.

I suspect Legate's packmates posted after him. I suspect people have a tendency not to look as carefully at the person who says so many wolves must have posted before me. He talked about how at least one or three wolves had posted by various points. Would he have drawn the spotlight on his packmates like that?

Pitchwife is probably not Legate's packmate with all their fighting. So, I speculate that Inzy and Pitchwife are from team Ladybug and Kitanna and Boromir are from Team Aphid. Now I could be be off base, but these are my opinions. I'm just gonna go ahead and vote. I'll be back in a bit.

++Inziladun

[The Elf-warrior]

Legate and numbers on DAY 1:

By the way: just by mere numbers, AT LEAST THREE of the people who have posted this far MUST BE Wolves. From Morsul's post earlier on (Morsul's included), there must be at least one Wolf among the people posting. When one sees it like this it's actually quite scary.

Okay, whatever, it was not the point... just sort of that if I were to choose some Wolves from the first posters based on anything (knowing that there HAD TO be - by mere numerical count - at least one Wolf among the people who posted before me), you two could as well be it.

He was talking about Sally and me, in case you're wondering. Another thing. The fighting I mentioned was so bad Legate voted for Pitchwife. If I had to guess which one of my above wolf picks is wrong, I'd say Kitanna because Legate and Lommy were in separate packs. That's enough for the night. Bye.

[satansaloser2005]

Good night, Elfie
Good night, Elfie
Good night, Elfie
They're going to kill you now

[Loslote]

Heh. *snuggles my lovely little minions* http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad173/LosloteSnowflower/sFun_explosivehug.gif

[wilwarin538]

Sallycakes, I would much appreciate it if you could stay dead please. But maybe send my Shasta back, if you're gone for good I would be willing to forgive him, as long as he's cool with me locking him in the basement. ;)

*is frightened by Lottie's icon and refuses to be snuggled*


So. As I said before each wolf pack has to correctly kill 3 people (and not die) in order to win. You 2 villagers have to correctly kill 4 people (one of which will result in another one of you) and probably want to avoid getting killed, or atleast the Ranger does; if Unicorn dies than there's another innocent, so you're no further behind.

So basically we have 3 teams of 2 all going against each other. And me. :Merisu:

Tha makes me the wild card that no one can afford to kill. How fun is that? :D

[Inziladun]

I think I know who the wolves are. I'm guessing Inzy, Pitchwife, Kitanna and Boromir. Anybody want to confess? I won't have much time to read and post in the rest of toDAY, what with work and a school event coming up. Inzy, I'm not gonna be nice to you just because you've accused me. This is war! Nogrod said you seem opportunistic, and I'm inclined to agree. And the math is against you. I know its also against me, but I know who I am.

The post in which I 'accused' you was actually meant to be one of several similar recap-and commentaries that would look at others as well. I ran out of time, but it was interesting to see the reactions.
Your response yesterDay actually had me thinking I should turn my attention away from you toDay, as your tone appeared as if it could be that of a genuine innocent. You didn't have the aggressive tone you show now.
It does appear that you largely parrot what Nog said, about me and the identities of the remaining wolves. You also take pains to say you agree with Nog, the known innocent, when Pitch also criticised my 'case' against you, and did so before Nog.

I suspect Legate's packmates posted after him. I suspect people have a tendency not to look as carefully at the person who says so many wolves must have posted before me. He talked about how at least one or three wolves had posted by various points. Would he have drawn the spotlight on his packmates like that?

What quote by Legate are you referring to?

Pitchwife is probably not Legate's packmate with all their fighting. So, I speculate that Inzy and Pitchwife are from team Ladybug and Kitanna and Boromir are from Team Aphid. Now I could be be off base, but these are my opinions. I'm just gonna go ahead and vote. I'll be back in a bit.

So you think Kit is Legate's packmate, despite the fact that she voted for him before Nog revealed his dream?

[Isabellkya]

So... we just have to point in a direction, and the probability of hitting a wolf is quite high, yes?

Wilwa is "claiming" a role. How do you know there is one WereUnicorn and one WereHunter each Wilwa? I thought the rules said, "and either a WereUnicorn or a Hunter!wolf." Unless somewhere it said there was only going to be one of each total....

[Boromir88]

So you think Kit is Legate's packmate, despite the fact that she voted for him before Nog revealed his dream?

The problem is it doesn't matter what wolf is with what pack at this point, and wilwa declaring she's the anti-lover, there's 4 wolves amongst

Kit
Pitchie
Zil
Elfie
Izzy

I don't care who's with who, I just want to get one stinkin wolf today with those odds.

So, wilwa, it seems like you're in a pretty interesting position. Obviously you must look out for your own win, but you know we have to look out for our win too. That doesn't mean we can't work together. We need your help, simple as that. If I can convince you, your best chance at winning is to help the village, will you?

Too long have you sat in the shadows and held a love scorned.
The day I heard what the wretch did to you was the first day I mourned.
Help us and I will show you what it means to love again.
Because darling, my care for you has just began.

What do you say? Let bygones be bygones? Shasta I mean. :p

[Kitanna]

Kit
Pitchie
Zil
Elfie
Izzy


You're missing a name there. What about Boro?

And we only have Wilwa's word that she's completely innocent of wolvery. Though it'd be very cunning or possibly very stupid for her to claim otherwise given the odds at this point.

[Isabellkya]

Well, there is only one Anti-Lover; and lest someone else counterclaims it - she probably is the Anti-Lover.


Boro, your plea did not sound so 'village'. Kind of came off a bit more wolfie.....

[Boromir88]

You're missing a name there. What about Boro?


Instead of doing the usual "I know what I am and I'm no wolf" routine...It's not my job to analyze myself and determine innocence/guilt. That's yours, and should be considerably easier to do in this game, than most of the ones I'm in.



Boro, your plea did not sound so 'village'. Kind of came off a bit more wolfie.....

Nope. How so? I'm taking a pre-emptive strike, so to say, and trying to get someone who is not aligned with the wolves on our side and hopefully get some trusty help.

I guess you could call it a plea, but I needed to get my true feelings out. She's been searching for love in all the wrong places, it's been here the whole time. :D

[Kitanna]

Boro, your plea did not sound so 'village'. Kind of came off a bit more wolfie.....

"Help the 'village' Wilwa. *wink wink*"

Though his little plea does seem..shifty, Boro has a point. Wilwa is in a very unique position. She can choose to help the wolf teams and ally herself with those she feels are part of one team or another or she can help the village. The problem is we'd never know the path she took until it was potentially too late, but killing her isn't a good idea either. You, Wilwa, are going to be the slippery wild card.

[Isabellkya]

It is the way that you put 'village' at the end of your plea, Boro. Like it was an oversight, you were pleaing with her to help you and yours; the wolves - then was like 'whups, forget, should put village there.'

[wilwarin538]

Wilwa is "claiming" a role. How do you know there is one WereUnicorn and one WereHunter each Wilwa? I thought the rules said, "and either a WereUnicorn or a Hunter!wolf." Unless somewhere it said there was only going to be one of each total....

Well the way I understood it one team was Seer-Ranger-Hunter, and the other team was Seer-Ranger-Unicorn. One seer is gone, one ranger is gone, so it only seems locigal that there is now one of each role.




So, wilwa, it seems like you're in a pretty interesting position. Obviously you must look out for your own win, but you know we have to look out for our win too. That doesn't mean we can't work together. We need your help, simple as that. If I can convince you, your best chance at winning is to help the village, will you?

Too long have you sat in the shadows and held a love scorned.
The day I heard what the wretch did to you was the first day I mourned.
Help us and I will show you what it means to love again.
Because darling, my care for you has just began.

What do you say? Let bygones be bygones? Shasta I mean.


She's been searching for love in all the wrong places, it's been here the whole time.

Boro, this all sounds a bit like a letter I once received from a certain superhero, so you're certainly going about this the right way. ;) haha

And Shasta, well he's dead. And he deserved it of course for leaving me for *gag*Sally*gag*. Hopefully now everyone will remember: Cupcakes may be prettier, but muffins are better for you. ;)

I will say though that I probably won't vote for who I find "suspicious" because I'm not against any side, or for any side. I'll likely vote for whoever bugs me, or doesn't give me enough cookies....

I think I'm having a bit too much fun with this. :Merisu:

[Kitanna]

I'm been having a look at our odds.

Me
Pitchie
Zil
Elfie
Izzy
Boro
Wilwa

Four of our seven our wolves and Wilwa is a wild card so we really only have two innocents, our unicorn and ranger. But if I understand correctly if the unicorn dies an innocent comes back to life, so that's helpful, but I'd rather not have the unicorn killed just to return a known innocent who then becomes an easy target at night. And what of our ranger? He/she is in a tight spot because revealing in case of danger signs his/her death warrant at night. And we still have a seer wolf for Legate's team, which means if his/her dreams were chosen wisely that team has an edge over the rest of us.

So who are the four we've got lurking about? I need to get to work. I will come home on my lunch break to comment some more and vote.

[Isabellkya]

If the WereUnicorn would like to reveal, we could lynch them and just be done with it. As that would be perhaps the perfect scenario for toDay.

I don't entirely like the fact that Wilwa seems like she is just going to skate to victory. She is not going to help either side, she is just going to vote for whomever she feels like.

Because it clearly has not been said in previous posts for toDay..

Kit
Pitchie
Zil
Wilwa
Boro
Elfie
Izzy

Two Aphidian Wolves, Two LadyBug Wolves, Two Innocents, One AntiLover.
2:2:2:1

It could easily turn into battle of the teams, rather than simply werewolf.

-----

Thoughts/comments on yesterDays posts.

I really don't think the AntiLover is completely 'harmless'. They have a vote....

If Lommy had dreamt of Nerwen; why would she need to reveal her and try to get her lynched? They could just kill her at Night. Though she could of tried to get her lynched, because she could be a possible lynch target. However considering that Nerwen was the Hunter, I think it logical that had any of the wolves known she was the Hunter - they would want to get rid of her asap; as in the beginning there is a higher probability of her taking an innocent with her as opposed to a wolf.

Legate did not seem to have any specific thoughts in regards to players. Granted I am up to #180, and now I have to go - but his posts from yesterDay all looked more general discussionary, as opposed to stating his personal views on other players.

Okay, need to go. May be back later, will probably have to vote way earlier than usual.