WW: LXXXV - The Lost Philosophers of Maiar

[Nogrod]

Eä Herald - Narvinyë 6, 7th age


It is said in the Ainulindalë, that when Ilúvatar made the third theme to finally counter Melkor’s music it was “deep and wide and beautiful, but slow and blended with immeasurable sorrow”. But Melkor’s theme which was “loud, vain and endlessly repeated” , and having little harmony, came louder and louder drowning the other music “by the violence of it’s voice”. And so Ilúvatar had to come forth with the powerful chord “deeper than the Abyss” to end the Music.

Numerous interpretations have been entertained ever since as to what actually happened there in the beginning with the Music of Ainur assembled by Ilúvatar Himself. What did Melkor weave into the Music and how did it affect the fate of Eä and all that is with it?

In the annals of the Middle-Earth it is said that no one but Ilúvatar knew or understood what his exact legacy was, not even Melkor himself. But in the light of the latest research by the honorable scholar Mr. Nogrod from the University of Past Wisdom – and by the sensational tapes that were uncovered by the recent excavations from Utumno’s deepest caverns – it seems quite credible that Melkor actually had quite a clear hunch of what his part in the music was and how he would study the possibilities of exploiting it to his liking.

Here’s professor Nogrod on the issue.

“Contrary to the generally accepted truth, it seems either Ilúvatar did do some really neat spin-doctoring with the Ainulindalë, or then His ways are even more unpredictable we’ve even imagined. For according to my recent studies it looks clear to me what Melkor’s part in the Music was. It was mortality, plain and simple.

Melkor had absolute doubt about it until Aulë’s deeds were revealed to him by his spies. The creation of the mortal dwarves made him confident the secret was there; not only had he influenced Aulë to follow a path not laid out by Ilúvatar, but his theme had also introduced a new element into being: the waning of the created life, the unavoidable death of something that was alive, power that negated being! It was clear to him then why Ilúvatar had been so agitated and why he ended the Music so abruptly, like that. It would be an understatement to say he was thrilled.

And he then knew deep inside that the Eä would be swarming with mortal life! But being immortal himself, Melkor had no idea how it would feel to know you’re going to die one day, and how that would affect the psychology of a being. And how powerless the dwarves were? What would it feel like to have no power? And Melkor was fully aware that in order to be fully able to exploit other creatures you have to master their psychology. So he had to learn about those sorry conditions somehow to start scheming against the new life that he knew was coming forth but whose conditions of being he couldn’t understand.

To his disappointment Ilúvatar and Aulë had hid the dwarves so well that even if he sent his best and most trusted spies to look for them, they couldn’t find them for experimenting. It was then he had the inklings of a master-plan. And that’s what the newly found tapes from Utumno tell a story of, confirming many of my hypotheses.”


So what was Melkor’s master-plan about?

What is the immeasurable sorrow in Ilúvatar’s theme?

What is the vain and endless repetition of violence with no harmony on Melkor’s theme?

Why was the end of it deeper than the abyss?


Follow the Eä Herald (TM) to find out. We’ll be publishing you some incredible footage from ages ago with the kind permission and co-operation by the University of Past Wisdom’s Historico-philosophical department and our good professor Nogrod!



NB. Do not post in this thread yet! The game begins around New year.

Patience... is one of the virtues.

[Nogrod]

There 24 players.

There are 4 wolves - with double-kills at Night as long as there are four of them.

There is 1 Cobbler.

There will be 3 gifteds: a seer, a ranger and a hunter.

The rest of the players will be just plain ordos with no other capabilities but their brains.


Roles and regulations on the roles.

The Wolves can PM together during the Nights, but not during Days. The wolves should send me the name of the one they intend to kill every Night an hour before the deadline. So long as there are four wolves alive, they get to kill two players every Night. If the number of innocents is reduced to equal the number of the wolves, the wolves win. The cobbler is counted as an innocent.

The Cobbler wishes for the wolves to win and will do whatever she thinks best to obtain that goal. The cobbler doesn’t know the identity of the wolves – and the wolves don’t know the identity of the cobbler. The cobbler can send one suggestion to the wolves every Night as whom to kill (via the mod). The cobbler wins if she is alive (is one of the remaining innocents) when the wolves claim victory. She is also granted bragging rights if she manages to give the victory to the wolves with a deliberate sacrifice.

The Seer can send me a name of one person every Night (including Night1) and I will send her the role of that person. All the roles are visible to the seer, so she will also learn the cobbler.

The Ranger can send me a name of one person every Night she would like to protect that Night. The ranger should PM that name to me at least an hour before the deadline. If the wolves attack a protected person there will be no kill that Night – and that will be revealed in the narration. The ranger can not protect herself or protect the same person two Nights in a row.

In this game the Hunter is an addition of Sauron so she will be what is sometimes called a “chaotic hunter”. That means that she will take one player with her whether lynched by Day or killed during the Night, regardless of the role of that person. The hunter should send me a name of the one she will hunt before the end of D1 – thereafter she has a right to change the name anytime she wishes. The hunter may change her target during Daytime to the last minute (if it looks like she is going to be lynched she can make a last minute change of target if so wishing), but if she wishes to change her target during the Night she should do that at least an hour before the deadline.


Miscellaneous rules.

- Everyone will have one retractable vote during the whole game. It is there mainly for the use when someone needs to vote very early but then against the expectations gets a chance to come online again before the deadline – and with the possible new information she may then retract her vote and vote again. But everyone is allowed to use the retrackie the way they wish: throw it away on your first post of the game, fool others and use it at the last second of the Day… whatever you like. Just remember that there is only one of them for you for the entire game.

- All the votes having a time-stamp of .00 (on the BD-post clock) will be counted. Any votes with the time .01 or more will not be counted. The votes should be bolded and posted on a separate row (with preferably an empty row both over and under it) for easier recognition. The form is the basic:

++ Nogrod

- As it looks like being a bit larger game there will be modfire. If someone doesn’t post and vote for two Days in a row that player is modfired regardless of her role. Other slackers you will have to deal with by your own means.

- No PM from me – or anyone else for that matter – is allowed to be used as evidence. In case you find an issue that is not explained in these rules and regulations you can ask about it in the thread or PM me (in case you don’t want to be known to be the person who asked, or if you want to ensure a speedier answer) – I will then clear the issue in the thread.

- No game-related discussions should go on outside the thread between players still living or between the living and those dead while the game is on. But as there will be no miraculous rebirths in this game, I find it futile to try and prohibit any communication between the already dead people.

- Fight as hard as you can but don’t be abrasive or dishonoring of other players. All tactics are allowed but hurting other peoples’ feelings is not (consequently: there's no need to get hurt personally when some others suspect you). The idea of the game is to have fun.

- Remember to turn invisible. I will be on visible mode so you can easily see whether I'm online or not if you have a quick question etc.

- For the convenience of other players and for easier reference, please bold all the names of your fellow-players in your posts.

- In a case of a tie the one who gets the last highest vote will be lynched (as she is the "last word" of yours).


GAME STARTS ON 1.1.11. AT 10PM GMT/UTC (5PM EST) WITH N1.

[Nogrod]

It is widely known that around year 4500 Valian time the Valar held council because of the grave news Yavanna and Oromë had brought them concerning the Middle-Earth. But one of the matters discussed there has remained secret to this day; that of the missing of a host of Maiar. They had just disappeared, one by one, never coming back from their missions.

“We don’t know where they have gone or how many of them have disappeared”, Yavanna said darkly.

“I’ve searched for them in vain from all over the Middle-Earth but there is no trace of them, anywhere.” Oromë added.

“It’s getting too dangerous for anyone to dwell there, thank’s to Melkor” Irmo sighed hearing the news.

“And think of the coming Eruhíni, the Children… what a terrible ordeal they’ll face.” Nienna sobbed quietly.

“A solution, anyone?” Manwë asked letting his eyes scan the hall.

“Let’s invade!” Tulkas bellowed and rose up from his bench.

“No one’s invading anything before we know of the Children. Eru will not be pleased if his children will be born into the midst of a battle.” Manwë cut in and waved his brother to sit down again.

“It is the destiny of theirs to be born into this age. Unknown are the paths of the Eru… But they shall cling on Varda.” Mandos said solemnly and turned towards Varda.

“I could gather light from the Trees and make ever brighter stars into the sky above” Varda suggested, “to guide the Children and to defy Melkor.”

“That indeed shall happen.” Manwë declared. “The next issue, the decoration of Taniquetil… ”


~*~

Meanwhile back in the jung… oops. *a wrong one*

Meanwhile the Middle-Earth lay in twilight; the sky was dark and the forests were quiet. Save the dark creatures old and strong that roamed the lands with the monsters and shapes of dread created by Melkor in his deep dungeons. And up in the north, Utumno laid in the darkness emerging as a massive black form, deeper dark than its surroundings. From there the balrogs went on their errands, twisting all life and bringing it to Him.

Their latest mission had been to catch all the Maiar they could find moving around the Middle-Earth. Sneakily avoiding the attention of Yavanna and Oromë they had
managed to catch a bunch of them bringing them back to Melkor in Utumno.

“A full twenty captured, like you ordered, Master.” Gothmog declared to his Master.

“Evil… and they’re all under the binding of the spell of hollow sleep?” Melkor checked.

“Yes Mylord, and in the deepest dungeon.”

“Then let us prepare the music… I need Sauron, get him to me!” Melkor said in excitement but just as he was turning away from Gothmog he suddenly halted. “While you’re at it, pick four Maia from ours, preferably some who are fair enough to look at to join the twenty. But do not spellbind them, for they shall not sleep.”

Gothmog bowed and went to his errand.


Melkor started concentrating on a few simple notes first, beginning to weave a web of unaudible sounds. After a while he felt new series of notes coming forwards and knew Sauron had accompanied him. And soon there were a host of evil spirits joining in the music. They sunk into the clusters of polyphony slowly but firmly… and behold, it took a form in sound (http://nogrod.xanga.com/audio/812a33951978//) and sneaked into the dreams of the spellbound Maiar.

It was dark.


The players:

Eomer of the Rohirrim - An associate of Ossë, speciality: lochs and ponds, great alliance with frogs
elronds_daughter - A spirit of no-nonsense
Macalaure - Carmótar, the Maia of housework
Shastanis Althreduin - A spirit of water
Loslote - A spirit of sunshine and rainbows
Kitanna - A spirit of all things unimaginative
wilwarin538 - Belongs to Vána, cares for all the small garden dwelling, winged creatures
Nessa Telrunya - The patron of town criers across the world
Pitchwife - Tender of Oromë's dogs
Satansaloser2005 - A spirit of ducks, muffins and cookies
Inziladun - A vassal of Námo, serving as a warden in Mandos
Rikae - A spirit in charge of silicon & static electricity
Boromir88 - A Maia of Mandos, the interpretter of dreams
A Little Green - A spirit in charge of aliens, hummingbirds and farming
Blind Guardian -A spirit of evil ways
Skip Spence - A follower of Aule with an avid interest in behavioural sciences
Mänwe - A spirit of short acquintances
Valier - A handmaiden of Yavanna, collecting the morning dew from the petals of flowers
Legate of Amon Lanc - A Maia associated with the unfathomed depths of the world's seas but also with the waters surrounding Arda in the outer space...
Thinlómien - A maia who lives in Lórien and paints the dreams of those sleeping there
Aganzir - Aka. Firebeck, a spirit of fire
Ozban - Yavanna's underling with inferiority complex. Caretaker of undergrowth and small bushes in general, especially blackberries
Caílin - A spirit of secrecy
Kath - A spirit of nostalgy




NIGHT1 has begun. The treacherous Maiar can start talking. Seer send me your pick. You others, enjoy the music for the next 36 hours.


D1 will start on 3.1. at 10AM GMT.


PS. The music is there for the mood. So enjoy the deepest dungeon of Utumno!

[Nogrod]

As the music faded the Maiar awoke in the deep darkness of their dungeon. At first most of them thought they were being dumped alone into that sorrowful night, but little by little they started sensing others around them in the darkness. Just as a few of the bravest ones were trying to make contact to others a new music (http://nogrod.xanga.com/audio/501673952265/) started to emerge; eerily disturbing, intense, horrifying… And then there was the glimmer of light up above them accompanied by the deep voice of Melkor himself.

“Welcome to Utumno you lower spirits. Ever heard music like that?” That seemed to be a rhetorical question as he followed suite.

“You are all probably well versed with the story of the Ainulindalë? But you don’t know what really happened, or what was my actual part in there... Or has someone of you been told about that?” That for sure was yet another rhetorical question.

“Of course not… Iluvatar is so in love with himself and his precious “all-mighty game” that he doesn’t want to tell you how my powers rival his. He is afraid of telling you the truth!” Melkor made an artsy pause, letting the meaning of his words hammer in.

“And here's the secret: not all in the creation is the making of his… Actually I even turned his faithful pet-smith Aulë to work for my ends disobeying him, “the Mighty”. Hah, that petty thing... But the most splendid seed that I planted in the original Music has now started to bear fruit. Do you know what Aulë did? He created living beings with a soul like you – but they are MORTAL!” Melkor bellowed the last words so loud that the Maiar were screaming with pain, holding on to their ears.

“You know what mortality means? It means dying, it means wholly ceasing to exist, it means not being anymore, it means being reduced to nothingness… and the Middle-Earth will be filled with mortal souls in the future; millions of souls dying, disappearing into the void of non-being… and that is MY CREATION!”

The Maiar were shocked. That was unheard of, unbelievable, and more or less impossible to even get to grips with as an idea. Melkor was the great trickster, but they couldn’t disprove his words either.

“So the music you heard while you slept, you now ask? What has all this to do with you?” There was another rhetorical pause. The horror of what this all would mean was making the Maiar tremble. After a longer pause Melkor finally made the announcement.

“You are mortals now… you proud Maiar have been reduced to mortal beings! You will not live forever, but only the time you manage to stay alive. And that time will be up to you. If you survive this dungeon of mine you will live, for a century, a millennia or two, well whatever time you’d live… but in the end you will die and your souls will be sent into oblivion, into a limbo of nothingness.”

Some of the Maiar were already falling into despair while others showed a brave or even defiant face – but four of them grinned maliciously admiring their master’s artful execution of the intro.

“But you may die fast and furiously much sooner… And here’s the deal for you. There are four of my servants with you and they will kill some of you during the periods I put a spell of sleep on you. During the times you are awake, you should then decide who the perpetrators are and try to get rid of them… If you manage to spot all my servants, those still living may go free to live your limited lives as you see fit. But if you do not succeed, the death will meet you here in my dungeon and you’ll never see the light of Valinor anymore, or the twilight of the Middle-Earth – or any other light. You will see nothing as you will not be anymore.”

Melkor disappeared with a flash which blinded everyone for a moment.


~*~


As the effect of the sudden burst of light waned and the Maiar’s eyes got used to the darkness again they realized that it was not pitch dark anymore. There was a shallow yellowish-greenish light everywhere around them. In the dim lighting they were for the first time able to see each other. Seeing many familiar faces around was a great joy… and a deep sorrow at the same time. For a moment they just stared at each other as their feelings went on with their own inner rollercoaster-ride.

Suddenly a cry broke the silence.

“Hey, everyone! Look at this! There is writing on the wall!” Valier yelled.

“I’m here to help you out! – I’ll dream the traitors out!” , the Blind Guardian spelled the text from the wall.

“So not all hope is lost! – I will protect you!” Skip read aloud the handwriting that was written under the first one.

“”Like it or not, but I’m not going down alone…”, now what does this mean?” Lottie wondered after reading the third writing.

“What about this: “Go Melkor!”?” Lommy shook her head discovering a fourth one from the next wall.



The Maiar, alive:

Eomer of the Rohirrim - An associate of Ossë, speciality: lochs and ponds, great alliance with frogs
elronds_daughter - A spirit of no-nonsense
Macalaure - Carmótar, the Maia of housework
Shastanis Althreduin - A spirit of water
Loslote - A spirit of sunshine and rainbows
Kitanna - A spirit of all things unimaginative
wilwarin538 - Belongs to Vána, cares for all the small garden dwelling, winged creatures
Nessa Telrunya - The patron of town criers across the world
Pitchwife - Tender of Oromë's dogs
Satansaloser2005 - A spirit of ducks, muffins and cookies
Inziladun - A vassal of Námo, serving as a warden in Mandos
Rikae - A spirit in charge of silicon & static electricity
Boromir88 - A Maia of Mandos, the interpretter of dreams
A Little Green - A spirit in charge of aliens, hummingbirds and farming
Blind Guardian - A spirit of evil ways
Skip Spence - A follower of Aule with an avid interest in behavioural sciences
Mänwe - A spirit of short acquintances
Valier - A handmaiden of Yavanna, collecting the morning dew from the petals of flowers
Legate of Amon Lanc - A Maia associated with the unfathomed depths of the world's seas but also with the waters surrounding Arda in the outer space...
Thinlómien - A maia who lives in Lórien and paints the dreams of those sleeping there
Aganzir - Aka. Firebeck, a spirit of fire
Ozban - Yavanna's underling with inferiority complex. Caretaker of undergrowth and small bushes in general, especially blackberries
Caílin - A spirit of secrecy
Kath - A spirit of nostalgy


DAY 1 has started.


D1 will last for 36 hours and will end on 4.1. at 10PM GMT/UTC (5PM EST).

[Thinlómien]

2,5h since the DL and I'm the first...?

But yay. :D This is my first ever first post on a ww thread. Celebration!

Err, not much substance to say. Mostly the obvious thing: we should get a wolf down asap since as long as they are all alive they get two kills per night which is plain disgusting.

Which means, no slacking on Day1. (No random votes, no kathing, no nerwening. :p)

I'll be back later but now I'm off to have breakfast (at 2.30 pm. ;))

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

What did he say? Mortal? That is ridiculous! That is absurd! Nothing like that can exist... actually, it is us that should not exist, we should be eternal, not merely existing for a measurable amount of time... but looks like we are existing now! If he had said the truth! That is ridiculous! That is absurd! I mean, imagine, even what I have just said, the truth - the truth is eternal, what he had said is therefore eternal, the truth about us is eternal, but we are not? How can that make any sense? Oh unfathomable depths of the ocean, where unseen forms of many creatures appear, will I ever see you again? Ai, ai, iä, iä, oh Outer Seas in the quiet darkness of Eä, shall I ever lay my eyes upon you? My dearest companions of old, my elder friends of the deep and dark waters, shall I ever return to you... and even if so, what fate awaits me? How much I now recall thine words: "That is not dead which can eternal lie..." But they are no comfort of me now anymore! In the strange aeons of Time, even we might die!

But is there anything more that we can do than to do what now Melkor had told us about, to look for his servants among us? We die regardless, yet I cling to life! If for but one more day.

[/in-character]
That said, I do not know how much active I shall be this Day. I will definitely post at least once something of substance before I vote, but between being busy with other RL things, including a several-hour long journey on a plane, I cannot promise any high activity. However, from next Day on, if I am still alive by then, my schedule should be completely normal and I should be posting normally.

Until then... I don't have anything special to say, other than I would like to encourage everybody to start in their second or at most third post posting already game-relevant stuff, if they don't do it earlier (I think most people will like to have at least one post for some in-character or random banter stuff, but let's not prolongate it too much).

[Pitchwife]

So this is what Melkor's disharmonious braying in the Music was all about - Mortality? The waning of life, unavoidable death? Now this is a grave matter, if you'll forgive the pun, and all the more so if he has indeed contrived to inflict this doom upon us, changing our nature in despite of the One who made us and him.

Yet I feel this only proves once more that Melkor can only ape and distort what already is, not create anew. For do not the kelvar and olvar die even in the Spring of Arda and return to earth and mould so that new life can come into being? And how can it be otherwise, since only the One himself can create ex nihilo! So if there is anything new in this design of Melkor's, it can only be the introduction of mortality to sentient creatures.

But not even that is true, as I know full well from observing the Lord Oromë's hounds (which, as you know, it is my privilege to tend when they're not hunting with him). Only a fool could deny that they are aware of themselves and feel and even dream, yet mortal though they are, they do not fear death, being content to live in the present.

So my advice is, let us follow our example and not be unmanned by the change that has allegedly been wrought upon us, but concentrate on the matter at hand and find the servants of the Marrer in our middle, so that we may escape from this dungeon.

(As for those threats of sending our souls to the void of nothingness, it is my firm conviction that Melkor is deluding himself in this, and the One will not let Himself be deprived of His own as easily as he thinks. But the truth about this only time will tell.)

[Aganzir]

I'll be back later but now I'm off to have breakfast (at 2.30 pm. ;))
She woke up so late because she was so busy plotting last night.

from next Day on, if I am still alive by then
I doubt you are.

It's more than likely that the wolves and the cobbler try to identify each other as soon as possible, so we should watch out for people who look like they know too much (even if they can't really do that till tomorrow). Of course the wolves & the cobbler have information we don't, but it's still possible they get overly confident and slip something.

And as Lommy said the sooner we get a wolf, the better. If the seer dreams of one at an early stage (ie before we've lynched any), she should probably consider if it's worth coming out and getting rid of the double kills.

[Pitchwife]

Legate, my friend, you've clearly spent too much time in the cold reigns of abstract reasoning and too little with living creatures. Their company offers such pleasure and comfort, and lessons of wisdom too, as I've already said.

Nevertheless, I fully concur with these words of yours:
I would like to encourage everybody to start in their second or at most third post posting already game-relevant stuff, if they don't do it earlier (I think most people will like to have at least one post for some in-character or random banter stuff, but let's not prolongate it too much).
Never fear, I fully intend to shine the lamp of reason on my fellow prisoners and seek to discriminate fair from foul. But this can only be done if everybody speaks up. As our first Day here has been preternaturally prolonged, we've got lots of time for discussion - let's not waste it with moping about the uselessness of Day One!

Also this:
Mostly the obvious thing: we should get a wolf down asap since as long as they are all alive they get two kills per night which is plain disgusting.

Which means, no slacking on Day1. (No random votes, no kathing, no nerwening. :p)
To which I'd like to add, No BlindGuardianing either, please. She's been the default D1 lynch in her last two games, I'd be very wroth to see that repeated without very good reasons.

In other news, I've just discovered that this newly mortal body has unexpected needs, to which I have to attend for a while. Back in a few hours, hopefully to a lively discussion!

[Cailín]

Good morning, everyone.

All are so quiet... I suppose we all need some time to come to terms with this new concept of "mortality". I believe the saddest part of all is that we are now forced to strike the first blow ourselves and lynch the evil in our midst: from mortals to murderers in one Day. It cannot be helped, however. And since Melkor did select many to become part of this wicked experiment (surely he did not need all of us, really)... well, let's just say, if you have to die, why not toDay?

Of course I'd rather not die. Not before I discover some of your secrets, anyway.

My participation toDay will be limited I'm afraid. I have a long journey ahead of me (by the very modern and secretive means of an airplane) and will even travel into the future (we of great powers can do this). I will be back to cast my vote within mere hours. In the meantime, I suggest all the evil beings should reveal themselves and repent before it is too late.

[Boromir88]

Some new faces, some returning faces, some long time faces, this will be a game to remember. If anyone has a dream (either dark or light, makes no difference to me) that needs interpretting, speak up. Dreams can reveal some of the darkest secrets and inner-most secrets. :p

I find the counsel of what we should be doing today interesting. If it was suggested by evil or not I can't tell, but right away we have "let's not do this or that." The problem is, we know the "this or that" we should not do, is going to happen, as that is the way these days typically play out.

The sooner we get a wolf the better, but this is a rather obvious statement. The wolves will likely want to keep their 2-kill advantage as long as possible, with how large a number we have. So, I doubt the wolves will be looking to sacrifice their first one, as some wolf packs are prone to do. However, once we nab the first one, they will likely revert to more aggressive behavior of sacrificing one of their own if it serves the pack's greater good. Something to keep in mind, the wolves may be shy in the first few days, banking on the size of the village and wanting to keep the 2-kills per night to steer the lynches.

The longer day is definitely going to help, as I'm still unsure of how active I can be when we go to the 24-hour days. Today, call it random voting or what have you, but my vote will go towards the ones who make absolutely no impression, or have nice poker faces.

[satansaloser2005]

There 24 players.

There are 4 wolves - with double-kills at Night as long as there are four of them.

There is 1 Cobbler.

There will be 3 gifteds: a seer, a ranger and a hunter.

The rest of the players will be just plain ordos with no other capabilities but their brains.


That's okay. I can kill you with my brain. :Merisu:



I'll try to be on later this afternoon, but expect me in short bursts, rather than long drawn-out posts. Somehow I don't think anyone will mind that. ;)

[Loslote]

But...but...but I don't wannit! :(



^ Yeah that's the extent of Early Day 1 IC posting for me. I'll be popping in and out for the next...nine or so hours, and then I'll be around more.

On to more game-related stuff - knee jerk reaction to the posts so far gives me a good feeling about Boro and Pitchie and a not-quite-as-good feeling about Sally. The other people I didn't get much of an impression from. (Normal disclaimer follows; I do not claim that this is exactly right; I do not want everyone voting Sally in a bandwagon of Shastanic porportions the moment I leave; I hold no responsibility if this happens. ;))

[Shastanis Althreduin]

He wakes and sits up groggily, shaking long hair the deep green of a kelp bed out of his eyes, cerulean skin sallow and green in this sickly yellow half-light, eyes of gray pain-filled, a protective scar circling his throat.



-----------


And that's the obligatory in-character intro from me. Thought I'd post it.

Off to re-read what's been said so far now, although I will mention I adore Lottie's new adjective. ;) Can that go in the glossary?

[Pitchwife]

In the meantime, I suggest all the evil beings should reveal themselves and repent before it is too late.
Great idea! Only not very likely to work.

It's more than likely that the wolves and the cobbler try to identify each other as soon as possible, so we should watch out for people who look like they know too much (even if they can't really do that till tomorrow). Of course the wolves & the cobbler have information we don't, but it's still possible they get overly confident and slip something.
Well, the wolves obviously know more than we do, but the cobbler not so much, as of now - so xe will indeed probably want to make xyrself known to the pack in time.
On the other hand, I see our Mod has seen fit to grant the cobbler a means to send secret messages to the wolves, so I don't know how much 'open' hinting we're going to see on the thread. Still worth keeping an eye open, to be sure.

And as Lommy said the sooner we get a wolf, the better. If the seer dreams of one at an early stage (ie before we've lynched any), she should probably consider if it's worth coming out and getting rid of the double kills.
Yep, the double Night-Kill sucks for us, and getting rid of it is imperative. I'm not sure if I'd like to risk the Seer for it - as long as the Ranger is still alive, maybe it's worth it. But it's not like an open Seer reveal is the only way to catch a wolf, so we should all do our best and not rely on the Seer to risk their neck for us.

The wolves will likely want to keep their 2-kill advantage as long as possible, with how large a number we have. So, I doubt the wolves will be looking to sacrifice their first one, as some wolf packs are prone to do.
True, although it's probably easier for them to blend in among a larger crowd. The question is, what conclusions should we draw from this once we manage to lynch our first wolf? Like, should we automatically rule out wolf-on-wolf votes? I don't think so - even if the wolves won't sacrifice one of them frivolously, they still may be forced to do so willy-nilly, e.g. if two of them are in danger at the same time.

[Ozban]

Being back once more,
I find myself again
in some loathsome dungeon,
and even worse this time.

What did I do to deserve this!?

I enlisted myself. :rolleyes:

Melkor, as little as I may be, I shall state something you despicable jailor shall probably never understand. The death never was of your doing! Yavanna Kementári sooner saw that chord in the music, and we all have seen olvar she brought upon Eä. Withering and growing time and again. If that is to be the melody leading life of children of Aule, so be it. For after every wilting, plants grow stronger and more beautiful. Every generation shall surpass the previous. And with our deaths we lay out the path for those, that shall overthrow you one day. After that you might just see that the true damnation lies in immortality.

[/in-character]

After saying what I had... I hate Day1s. There is not a thing.
I shall refrain from stating the obvious...

later...

P.S.: right now I'd vote Agan, no reason, she just deserves it most. :p

[skip spence]

Happy New Vailan Year to all of you!

Now mortality, that's something new and frightening. But even if the wicked Melkor was behind this as he claims, is he not also a mind-seed of the almighty and all-good Illuvatar, as we are also? And could not Melkor's deeds, evil though they may seem, be used as an instrument for the greater good by the One?

For the mortal beings must now fear the extermination of their being in Arda and that, my breathren, may be a gift for us shepherds of new life. For isn't the fear of seizing to exist among the coming mortal inhabitants of Arda a wonderful incitement for them to do what is right, to keep the peace, to acknowledge authority, to stay obedient to the One and his lieutenants? And isn't this "death" therefore a wonderful instrument for us shepherds to help and control the new mortal inhabitants? I think so.

But that this fate should be shared by us here who are of the Ainur, Arda's prime guardians and creators, we who were here before the physical world itself, is truly a horrific and blasphemous crime by Melkor the abhorred! Curse him until the end should it be true!

- - -

So, it's Day one and there will be little to go on as usual. I think Boro's got a point about the wolves trying to stay moderately quiet early on and my initial thought is to vote for one of the quiet players toDay. Then again, if that idea becomes commonly accepted, the wolves can easily escape by making some noice. Hm.

I do feel that we should have a mind to spread out the votes toDay though (unless there's an obvious reason not to). Last game I played, where Shasta-seer was lynched with a Day 1 bandwagon, was an experience I'd rather not have repeated. More can be learned if the voting is reasonably close, I think.

On the other hand, I see our Mod has seen fit to grant the cobbler a means to send secret messages to the wolves, so I don't know how much 'open' hinting we're going to see on the thread. Still worth keeping an eye open, to be sure.
It sure is. The added ability to send a message to the wolves will probably make the cobbler increasingly dangerous as the game progresses since it could make it easier for the wolves and the cobbler to identify each other by methods of elimination.

I should be in touch now for the next hours. My participation tomorrow will probably be more limited.

[Cailín]

I feel kind of horrid having to vote for someone with nothing to go on. Most people have not even had a chance to speak.

As always, I like everything Boromir88 says, but he has fooled me before (and again, and again).

Pitchwife seems to have a response for everyone. This is polite behaviour and for now I approve.

I also feel obliged to say something about Eomer of the Rohirrim even though he has not posted yet. Will be watching him closely and warily, I assure you.

No one has said anything controversial or unexpected. How dull.

My vote goes to

(where is the plus sign on this bewildering keyboard?)

++ Aganzir

Because I know she can take it and I owe her one anyway.

If I am killed in my absence, please avenge my death.

Got to fly!

[satansaloser2005]

Skip and Pitch make me nervous. I'm not yet sure why.

When is deadline for toDay? In an hour or so?

[Loslote]

Skip and Pitch make me nervous. I'm not yet sure why.

When is deadline for toDay? In an hour or so?

I thought Day 1 was 36 hours long, which would put DL in 13 hours.

Also, Cailín's vote isn't all that great, but it doesn't look particularly wolfy to me. I don't really see a wolf voting that way. I've never played with her, though, so I don't know what a Wolín looks like. :p

[satansaloser2005]

A pox on that double post. Anyway, thanks, Pop. In that case, I'll wait to do stuff until this evening. If I don't vote, blame Lottie. :p

*shuffles away*

[Pitchwife]

Actually, toDay startet at 10AM GMT, didn't it, so with a 36 hours Day, DL should be at 10PM GMT tomorrow evening, if I can count right. So we've got plenty of time left.
And yet there's already a vote! To me, that looks like Cailín maybe wasn't quite sure about the DL either and wanted to get a vote in just in case she couldn't come back later - so not dreadfully wolvish. (Plus, I agree that it can't harm to lynch Agan just to be on the safe side:p!)

I don't quite know what to make of Ozzy. I surely agree with his philosophy, but apart from that, his first post was a little, hm, lazy. OK, there's little else to do beyond stating the obvious early on Day One, but if everybody just shuts up we'll never get to discussing non-obvious things, so that's not really helping.

skip's philosophy I strongly disagree with (what, mortality is OK for the sheep but it's blasphemy to inflict it on the shepherds? Arrogance!:p), but he sounds reasonable enough and has a point about spreading the votes - which is very probably going to happen anyway in a village as large and diverse as hours. (Don't remind me of that Shastawagon!*shudder*)

[Rikae]

Pitchwife is making me uneasy.

[Inziladun]

Melkor, thou art not the King of Arda, and this is not thy realm. Manwë (the Vala, not the player ;)), shall not forsake us, and under the dominion of the One, those faithful to him shall yet triumph.

In other news, as soon as I have a moment to actually look at what people have said, I'll be back with more.

x/d with Rikae

[Valier]

woah!!! Ok so the start time was not what I was expecting...D1 started at 4am for me. I thought that it would be starting today at 4pm my time (CST) so does this day end at 4am tonight (CST) my time? And does it continue with day starts and ends at 4am? (my time CST) Because that would definately suck!! Ok well I've had a quick skim over the posts and should be in and out today...

So far...hmm noone really stands out to me..Boro seems a little too reasonable maybe?... also I noticed this And as Lommy said the sooner we get a wolf, the better. If the seer dreams of one at an early stage (ie before we've lynched any), she should probably consider if it's worth coming out and getting rid of the double kills. I noticed you said she..... any reasons?

[Loslote]

woah!!! Ok so the start time was not what I was expecting...D1 started at 4am for me. I thought that it would be starting today at 4pm my time (CST) so does this day end at 4am tonight (CST) my time? And does it continue with day starts and ends at 4am? (my time CST) Because that would definately suck!! Ok well I've had a quick skim over the posts and should be in and out today...

No, it should end at 4pm your time, I think.

also I noticed this I noticed you said she..... any reasons?

Agan calls certain roles 'she' habitually - the one that comes to mind is the cobbler. I haven't noticed her calling the seer 'she' before, but it seems like an Aganish sort of thing to do.

[Pitchwife]

Pitchwife is making me uneasy.
Care to explain? (Sally too, who seems to be sharing your feelings.)

[Nessa Telrunya]

The time is now... Whatever time it currently is!

Whew, there's a nice little intro. And hopefully, as town crier, I can shed light on the situation in the same manner as my brother tradesmen. Day1 is always confusing, so I suppose I'll do some statistics.

We have 19 villagers now,a cobbler, and four wolves. That means our percentage of catching a wolf is about 16%, and their percentage of a gifted toNight would be about 12, with a 4% chance of also catching their own cobbler.

So now we are at 19-5, if we count the cobbler with the wolves. If we kill a villager, it is 18-5, and 19-4 if we kill the cobbler or a wolf. But if we kill a wolf, after toNight's kills we'll be at 18-4 toMorrow, instead of 17-4. If we kill a villager, we'll be at 16-5 toMorrow. No good there.

Whew, I love math.

[Pitchwife]

It seems this mortal body gets tired and needs to sleep. See you all later!

[Ozban]

We have 19 villagers now,a cobbler, and four wolves. That means our percentage of catching a wolf is about 16%, and their percentage of a gifted toNight would be about 12, with a 4% chance of also catching their own cobbler.


I concur with calculations of our chances of lynching a wolf + there's about 4% of getting a cobb.
But Wolves kill 2 of 20. (this presumes worst case scenario) There are 3 gifted in that number = 15% of "non-wolves".
Therefore I belive, that Furries have twice 15% chance of hitting a gifted. With twice 5% chance of wasting a cobbler. This is only approximate calcul, making precise ones would be way past my abilities. I always sucked at math, but the way my calculations go, we are way more screwed, than according to yours, Nessa.

Hey, I actually invented a way to lessen wolves chance of murdering one of gifteds, we can lynch one of them ourselves! :D Has anyone seen Shasta?

Ok, quite insane, better go to sleep.

See you later.

[satansaloser2005]

Pitchwife is making me uneasy.

Who are you and what have you done with our beloved over-verbose Rikae? :o

X'd since the post I quoted, as I've not refreshed in....quite a while, actually

[Kitanna]

I spent an hour on a post where I went through all the posts thus far! And I mis- typed and it's all gone. There are no words for how I feel that I can use on a family site.

So to sum up what I spent my life typing...

Rikae and Sally need to state their reasons against Pitch (and Skip in Sally's case) They made no promise to return or even explain it as a knee jerk reaction like Lottie did. A flimsy reason would do this early in game. "I suspect Kit because she drinks ginger ale." Rikae's said nothing else, but Sally has. I don't like the fact Sally has popped in a few times, but not actually said anything or promised anything for when RL allows her to contribute. I can't cast too much suspicion on her, but I'm watching her.

Pitch talks a lot in regards to suggestions made by others. Yet he has yet to really provide his own feedback. That's a little unsettling. [/serious]

So this game, based on what I've read so far, one or all of the following will happen:
-Eomer, Agan, Shasta, Pitch, Boro, Wilwa, Sally, or myself will be accused, possibly killed, based on meta game or personal vendettas
-A joke will become evidence, death follows
-One wolf will lead the bandwagon against an innocent, one will lynch a fellow wolf, or one may possibly dance on town corpses
-I will drink heavily and cry
[/shenanigans and joke]

[Nogrod]

I thought I wrote the beginning and th ending times of D1 into like ten places + added the reminder that D1 lasts 36 hours like as many times... :rolleyes:

Well it seems you can never give out too much info...



So this Day1 lasts for 36 hours.

It began on 10AM GMT/UTC (5AM EST)

and will end on 10PM GMT/UTC (5PM EST) tomorrow.


So you have 22 hours left of the Day.

22 hours and fifteen minutes left to be more exact. :)


ADD: Valier & Lottie: there seems to be also a "one hour" miss in your calculations (or then I have given you faulty information). But that is easily checked. Look at my post that starts this ongoing D1 (post #4) and see the time stamp on the top left corner. The hour that post was sent is the deadline hour. The only change is that as the D1 is exceptionally 36 hours long, the deadline for D1 is not that X AM as it reads in your screen but the same X PM tomorrow. Like I said above; about 22 hours from now.

[skip spence]

For such a large village it's eerily quiet, isn't it?

Backtracking a bit since there's precious little new.

And as Lommy said the sooner we get a wolf, the better. If the seer dreams of one at an early stage (ie before we've lynched any), she should probably consider if it's worth coming out and getting rid of the double kills.
Yep, the double Night-Kill sucks for us, and getting rid of it is imperative. I'm not sure if I'd like to risk the Seer for it - as long as the Ranger is still alive, maybe it's worth it. But it's not like an open Seer reveal is the only way to catch a wolf, so we should all do our best and not rely on the Seer to risk their neck for us.
I'd agree with Pitch here. The Seer is our strongest piece, our Queen, and should not be sacrificed lightly. It's up to the Seer to decide what to do if he/she catches a wolf or already has done so, but if it were me, I'd wait with the open reveal unless I faced the gallows. The Seer must however be very careful to not leave any false trails should he/she happen to get killed. If we lose the Seer and the trail points to an innocent, we're in big trouble.

Need to sleep soon. I probably won't return until close to the DL.

[Macalaure]

My, my, my, what a mess here. Cobblers and wolves and chaotic hunters, people wanting to kill with their brain, people doing math (do not tempt me!)... If you think that I'm going to clean this all up you're mighty wrong. Mighty wrong!

*glares*

...

Alright, I'll do it.

Let's put all the absent ones in a box and put it in a corner. Ozban goes into the safe, since I haven't played with him yet. The feel-good ones (Boro, Skip, Legate, Lommy, Sally) go into the drawer over there. The ones who haven't said much of consequence yet (Shasta, Lottie, Nessa, Inzil, Valier) go on that (rather big) shelf over the drawer.

Is anybody going to help me with this?

...

*sigh*

The suspicious ones go in the oven to roast:
It's more than likely that the wolves and the cobbler try to identify each other as soon as possible
Radar make *bling* (remembrance of a game of old)

Pitch's "on the one hand - one the other hand - I don't know" reply to this doesn't look good either, if you ask me. Compare it to skip's straightforward logic.


Finally, Cailín and Rikae get the nice place on the mantelpiece for putting their suspicion and vote in the right place. The safe with Ozban goes on the mantelpiece, too.


edit: Kitanna gets a place on the mantelpiece, too, for putting tons of good points into a concise post. There's not enough of that. :)

The Seer must however be very careful to not leave any false trails should he/she happen to get killed.This makes the seer extremely identifyable by the wolves. :eek:

*puts skip in the oven and turns up the heat*

[skip spence]

This makes the seer extremely identifyable by the wolves. :eek:

*puts skip in the oven and turns up the heat*
Haha, thank you for that. :D

I disagree with you that a measure of carefulness would reveal the Seer in such a large village (or even in a small). And I'm not saying the Seer shouldn't suspect someone at all unless he/she is sure, only that the Seer at this point shouldn't strongly accuse one specific person in the instance he or she happens to get killed because that is very risky. When Shasta was the Seer in that already mentioned game, we foolishly killed him, and then proceeded to almost unanimously lynch an innocent the following Day - I believe it was Pitch) - because Shasta seemed to come after him strongly and we though he was a dreamed of wolf. It was horrible.

[Rikae]

Care to explain? (Sally too, who seems to be sharing your feelings.)

Nope, not at the moment. And no, I'm afraid I never could explain Sally. :p

[Kath]

Ah! I actually thought I'd missed Day 1 there. I mean I am spirit of nostalgia I know but I have been trying not to do that!

Now, what is deadline? 10 pm tomorrow?

We have retractables so I will vote just in case that's totally wrong, but I sincerely intend to return and vote based on more information assuming I'm right. :)

Oh! Ignore that, I've just got to the bottom of Nog's post which confirms that deadline IS 10 pm tomorrow. This is now just a random stream of consciousness. Oh well.

Lommy - I would take offence at my inability to play Day 1 being made into a verb, but as I thought I'd done it again I can't.

For once I'm with Legate. Banter is fun but some substance is good too. A mix within posts then would be the solution! If I was someone who had any skills with this in role business.

Wow Agan starts Seer talk in post number 8! Get you with your attention seeking. Fair point though. If we're getting to the stage where the wolves are cutting the innocent numbers by such a degree it probably would be necessary.

I love Pitch. 'Don't lynch Blind Guardian for silly default reasons'. Followed by 'Hmm I don't like Ozban's lazy way of stating the obvious.' (Oddly in text that comes across as really ... mean. It's not meant that way.)

To answer Valier: Agan said 'she' when referring to the Seer because Nog-God has explained all his special roles using 'she'.

So there you have the thoughts that have sprung up on my readthrough. Beats me what's going on right now and so I am off to bed. I imagine there will be 17 new pages to read by tomorrow. :rolleyes:

[Rikae]

Who are you and what have you done with our beloved over-verbose Rikae? :o


Something like this:
IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

I can't make it out... must be some kind of code or something. If only I had the time, but alas, that's just what we don't have, isn't it? A few millennia just isn't enough. :(

And Mackie-Pie, I haven't voted yet. And could you take these glasses into the kitchen for me? While you're there, check whether those pastries - er, players - in the oven are done...

[Aganzir]

To which I'd like to add, No BlindGuardianing either, please. She's been the default D1 lynch in her last two games, I'd be very wroth to see that repeated without very good reasons.
So if she turns out to be a wolf, I know who to look at. :p

xe will indeed probably want to make xyrself known to the pack in time.
I would poke some fun at one Bill Ferny here (not you wilwa) but I don't want to give anyone ideas. :p

On the other hand, I see our Mod has seen fit to grant the cobbler a means to send secret messages to the wolves, so I don't know how much 'open' hinting we're going to see on the thread. Still worth keeping an eye open, to be sure.
You can blame me for that because it was originally my suggestion. I semi-regret it now, just like I regret opposing Lommy who said the ranger should get two saves as long as the wolves get two kills (this took place somewhere else than the admin thread).
However I'm pretty sure we are going to see hinting. I've done it before and the village didn't pay any attention to me, and at least I intend not to be so careless. It's an entirely different matter how easy it is to spot, but however careful they are, in the long run we should be able to see connections.

But it's not like an open Seer reveal is the only way to catch a wolf, so we should all do our best and not rely on the Seer to risk their neck for us.
I know and I'm not asking the seer to reveal early just for the general good (because no one wants to sacrifice herself just like that)... But hypothetically if we lynch an innocent each day and the wolves kill two a night, it's going to be 5-10 (I count the cobbler as a wolf because the risk is high they manage to identify each other and can therefore vote more or less together) at the beginning of day 4. That isn't too bad yet, but the seer can't really afford to die without leaving hints (which is risky too because it will lead the wolves to her quicker, etc etc).

The question is, what conclusions should we draw from this once we manage to lynch our first wolf?
I think normal wolf behaviour rules also apply to them this time. Yeah they have more to lose by lynching one of their own, but they might still do it. So I don't think we can draw any conclusions whatsoever, and least of all that we should draw conclusions from it.

Ozban but day 1s are fun! And if you dare to vote for me I'm going to burn all your blackberries once I get out of here!

I have nothing against voting for a quiet player today if I don't have a better idea, just because I dislike both quiet wolves, gifteds and ordos.

Because I know she can take it and I owe her one anyway.
Actually no, we were even before you did that... You lynched me in Dueling Wizards 2. :p

so I don't know what a Wolín looks like.
Even scarier than Cardo.

I like Rikae. Not that it makes her innocent.

I noticed you said she..... any reasons?
Yes. I dreamed of her and found out she's the seer.
Anyway for me everyone is a she until proven otherwise.

I don't know what to make of Nessa's maths... On the one hand it makes me slightly uneasy (you'd think a baddie had more of a reason to know where exactly she stands), on the other it's good to know how many innocents we can afford to lynch without being in serious trouble (one of my favourite wolf strategies is to give the villagers a false sense of security by being strongly yet discreetly of the opinion we can check out yet another quiet/enigmatic person, and another, and another, until it's too late).

Hey, I actually invented a way to lessen wolves chance of murdering one of gifteds, we can lynch one of them ourselves!
I don't think I like this plan. :P

I also like Kitanna, which doesn't mean that she's innocent though.

Radar make *bling* (remembrance of a game of old)
Hey what's suspicious about that? They have the means to do it, and the only thing we can do about it is to try to make it as difficult for them as possible.

Cailín and Rikae get the nice place on the mantelpiece for putting their suspicion and vote in the right place.
I would've thought this was sarcasm, but then he also puts Kitanna on the mantelpiece. What's up Mac?

[Aganzir]

Care to explain? (Sally too, who seems to be sharing your feelings.)
Option 1: Pitch is being jumpy.
Option 2: Pitch is genuinely curious about being suspected by a couple of people on day 1.

The passive-aggressive phrasing makes me inclined towards option 1.

[Rikae]

Careful, Kath, we only have one retractable vote for the whole game.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I thought I'd be back long before I actually made it back. Pity, that.

Okay, so we have a couple things to look at. Rikae is being... less talkative and more mysterious than usual, but then it's Rikae, so I don't know how much of that is readable. We have Pitch, who pinged my personal radar from the moment he said "havens forfend we do something like the Shasta lynch again!", but that's a Lottie reason so I'm going to need more to go on. And besides that, he's suspected by an awful lot of people so far, considering. From personal experience as a wolf I know that wolves don't need to do much to push a Day 1 bandwagon right into an innocent, but it's something to look at.

Mac and Kitanna both look good to me so far, as does Agan (as far as I can tell they've been the most logical and down to earth so far). No read on Sally, which frankly bothers me a bit.

I'll be back with more.

[Loslote]

I don't really have suspicions at this point. Sally had that one post that caught my eye (in the painful, eye's-gone-now kind of way, not in the oh-that's-so-pretty kind of way), but other than that, not much. I can see where people are coming from about Pitchie, but I don't think I would have noticed it on my own, so I'm hesitant to point fingers at him. Mac's big post of postiness was unnerving, but the one game I played with him (at least, I think that's the only game) I thought the same think about innocent!Mac.

But I do have a lot of people who seem reasonably not-evil right now. Agan looks almost too good (I'm oh so used to suspecting her :p). Kit looks really innocent so far - probably the most so - but I haven't played with her much, so I can't really be sure. Skip looks decent, in a not-ringing-any-alarms sort of way. Shasta seems rather innocent in a not-wolvish way.'

[Boromir88]

So far those who've made some sort of initial impression as I've gone along and read...

Agan is being Agan. I thought since she has given me loads of insight into her wolvish mind (as I have given my wolvish insight to her before) maybe I'd be able to figure her intentions better. So far, this is to no avail, but if she had not thrown a random suspicion towards Lommy, and proceeded to make elaborate posts it would be a major shock. Doubt I'll ever be able to tell when Agan's what role, but as it is, she's popped into my head and thus will want to keep her around more.

Rikae for that "Mackie-pie," had me busting out laughing. I think we can solve the mystery of Rikae's role by simply asking her. Rikae-wolf? :p

Then I come to Mac, who I would be very very frightened of meeting again if I started calling Macki-pie, so I'm going to stick to Mac. However, can you define for me the significance of going into the drawer as opposed to up on the mantelpiece? A drawer suggests you are tucking these people away and leaving us there (what else are drawers good for, other than shoving in papers and folders when you're trying to quick clean up a room?).

Kath has made an appearance, she's really getting the hang of this whole remembering to appear Day 1, and as far as I know was not reminded day has started. (Makes me start thinking I should work on the "trying not to be the obsessive EVERYONE LOOK AT ME WEEEEE!" thing I said I would be working on. :p)

Pitch is an early name of who is suspicious being thrown around, I'm not seeing where the jumpiness is coming from? Looked like a random thing thrown out by Rikae and this prompts Pitch to ask for reasons. Suddenly this makes him jumpy?

Then Kitanna, Lottie, and Cailin all for mentioning me in some manner. When I revert to scanning mode, I scroll through pages to see where my name appears. So the easiest way to make an early impression/getting me to think about someone is to throw in a Boro somewhere. Doesn't have to make sense, could be like "I was thinking about wolves-strategy and...Boro looks sharp, and the wolves are going to try...wow I really like Boro's sweater-vest," and 90% chance I take notice.

Everyone else has not made an impression on me, or maybe you did and I'd already forgotten thinking about how studious and professional I'm looking at the moment.

Edit: Crossed with Lottie and Shasta

[Kitanna]

Option 1: Pitch is being jumpy.
Option 2: Pitch is genuinely curious about being suspected by a couple of people on day 1.

Pitch's reaction seemed more like option two. It wasn't all that jumpy, just perhaps mild annoyed curiosity. I think if we're to look at Pitch, let's look at his posts prior to asking Rikae and Sally to explain. To me he seems to be speaking a lot without saying anything. Like "here I am, being helpful, but I'm really being sneaky by making noise." I believe Lottie called him "polite" (if it was infact Lottie). I don't like this polite game, if that's the best way to put it.

I'm really interested in Rikae and Sally. They've jumped out to me like Pitch has. I'd like to see something substantial from Rikae before making further comment. But as far as Sally goes, there's something about her playing. I can't pinpoint what it is that makes me uneasy. Maybe it's her silence, which has been stated as a RL issue. I best ponder on this. I hope there's more activity before I go to bed because when I wake up I have time to skim and vote.

I'll defiantly post once more before bed and then my vote post.

[Blind Guardian]

So....hi guys!

So, time ends in one hour thirty minutes or by 10AM tomorrow? Sorry, I am still confused. And I am going by BD clock.

I suspect Ozban cause of this:


Hey, I actually invented a way to lessen wolves chance of murdering one of gifteds, we can lynch one of them ourselves! Has anyone seen Shasta?

How would we murder a gifted when we don't know them (or did I miss something?)? And why do you want Shasta? Maybe 'cause I remember Shasta was a really good wolf one game past...

Also, I am not voting toNight because I am not going to be back on. (Maybe if the DL is at 10AM tomorrow morning I will, maybe)

e;x with everyone since post 43

[Inziladun]

Lots to digest, here. What are you people trying to do? And I can't even have a Guinness to help me make sense of things. ;)

And as Lommy said the sooner we get a wolf, the better. If the seer dreams of one at an early stage (ie before we've lynched any), she should probably consider if it's worth coming out and getting rid of the double kills.

I believe I'd concur. We've seen recently that the trails of a dead Seer can be rather untrustworthy. They may clearly lead to a wolf, or, as has already been discussed, they can lead innocents quite astray, eh, Shasta and Pitch? :p
Also, an inventive Ranger can make things difficult for the wolves, even with the Seer revealed.

Never fear, I fully intend to shine the lamp of reason on my fellow prisoners and seek to discriminate fair from foul. But this can only be done if everybody speaks up. As our first Day here has been preternaturally prolonged, we've got lots of time for discussion - let's not waste it with moping about the uselessness of Day One!

I'll probably be accused of latching onto the suspicion on Pitch, but he somewhat bothers me too. This feels a bit forced.

To which I'd like to add, No BlindGuardianing either, please. She's been the default D1 lynch in her last two games, I'd be very wroth to see that repeated without very good reasons.

Now, I'd agree with this. She has a history of being lynched very early, and I can think of only one occasion where she was evil. I'd be inclined to at least let her make it through Day 1.

If anyone has a dream (either dark or light, makes no difference to me) that needs interpretting, speak up. Dreams can reveal some of the darkest secrets and inner-most secrets.

I had a dream I was eating Frosted Mini Wheats, and when I woke up my pillow was gone.

On to more game-related stuff - knee jerk reaction to the posts so far gives me a good feeling about Boro and Pitchie and a not-quite-as-good feeling about Sally. The other people I didn't get much of an impression from. (Normal disclaimer follows; I do not claim that this is exactly right; I do not want everyone voting Sally in a bandwagon of Shastanic porportions the moment I leave; I hold no responsibility if this happens. ;))

Why would you assume people would jump on your vague suspicion, and feel the need to qualify your feelings?

On the other hand, I see our Mod has seen fit to grant the cobbler a means to send secret messages to the wolves, so I don't know how much 'open' hinting we're going to see on the thread. Still worth keeping an eye open, to be sure.

Well, the Cobbler can send suggestions to the wolves regarding their kill, and over time they'll be able to narrow down the Cobbler that way. That's pretty time consuming, though, and the Cobbler doesn't want to be killed by them, so I'd think some hints would be likely.

Happy New Vailan Year to all of you!

Should Aulë-quaintance be forgot....

Also, Cailín's vote isn't all that great, but it doesn't look particularly wolfy to me. I don't really see a wolf voting that way. I've never played with her, though, so I don't know what a Wolín looks like.

Could be a Cobbler-signal. Early, ill reasoned votes can well serve that purpose. Then again, she seems to be rather busy IRL.

The time is now... Whatever time it currently is!

Whew, there's a nice little intro. And hopefully, as town crier, I can shed light on the situation in the same manner as my brother tradesmen. Day1 is always confusing, so I suppose I'll do some statistics.

We have 19 villagers now,a cobbler, and four wolves. That means our percentage of catching a wolf is about 16%, and their percentage of a gifted toNight would be about 12, with a 4% chance of also catching their own cobbler.

So now we are at 19-5, if we count the cobbler with the wolves. If we kill a villager, it is 18-5, and 19-4 if we kill the cobbler or a wolf. But if we kill a wolf, after toNight's kills we'll be at 18-4 toMorrow, instead of 17-4. If we kill a villager, we'll be at 16-5 toMorrow. No good there.

Whew, I love math.

Thanks for the effort, but is odds-making necessary at this point? Just sayin'. Sorry, Sally. I forgot you had a ™ on that.

So this Day1 lasts for 36 hours.

It began on 10AM GMT/UTC (3AM EST)

and will end on 10PM GMT/UTC (3PM EST) tomorrow.

Herr Mod, shouldn't the EST time be 5PM? I think they're GMT-5.

[Loslote]

How would we murder a gifted when we don't know them (or did I miss something?)? And why do you want Shasta? Maybe 'cause I remember Shasta was a really good wolf one game past...

I believe that was a banter post. And he mentioned Shasta becase the last game he played in, we lynched Shasta-seer Day 1.

Why would you assume people would jump on your vague suspicion, and feel the need to qualify your feelings?

It's happened before - I threw out vague suspicion of Shasta Day 1, and he was lynched near-unanimously. I assumed no one would jump on it then, and they did, so now I'm assuming they will and, hopefully, that'll mean that they won't. ;)

[Inziladun]

It's happened before - I threw out vague suspicion of Shasta Day 1, and he was lynched near-unanimously. I assumed no one would jump on it then, and they did, so now I'm assuming they will and, hopefully, that'll mean that they won't. ;)

Well, baddies can latch onto any old bandwagon. What makes Lottie's so inviting? :p

[Nogrod]

Herr Mod, shouldn't the EST time be 5PM? I think they're GMT-5.Achh... you're right... I was thinking it 7 hours from my time (which is correct).

Sorry. I'l correct my earlier "correction" concerning the EST.

The deadline is 10PM GMT/UTC - aka. 5PM EST.


Also to Blind Guardian: 19½ hours left of the day...

[Loslote]

Well, baddies can latch onto any old bandwagon. What makes Lottie's so inviting? :p

It might be the complimentary rainbows and good interior lighting. I'll run a few surveys and get back to you on that. :p

EDIT: xed with the Mod-Dude

[Macalaure]

About all those cobbler-wolf hint... quest... thing.

In my experience, it's very unusual for wolves to hint to a suspected cobbler in a normal game, unless it's late in the game and every vote counts. In this game, the cobbler can communicate with the wolves to an extent - their connection is better than usual - and now they are suddenly certainly going to throw around hints? Possible, yes, since the temptation to use the cobbler strategically is there, but we have nearly zero chance to detect any hints now. Once a baddie is dead, we will certainly see clearer, but looking out now and possibly basing suspicions and cases on it, is almost certainly going to backfire.

[Inziladun]

About all those cobbler-wolf hint... quest... thing.

In my experience, it's very unusual for wolves to hint to a suspected cobbler in a normal game, unless it's late in the game and every vote counts. In this game, the cobbler can communicate with the wolves to an extent - their connection is better than usual - and now they are suddenly certainly going to throw around hints? Possible, yes, since the temptation to use the cobbler strategically is there, but we have nearly zero chance to detect any hints now. Once a baddie is dead, we will certainly see clearer, but looking out now and possibly basing suspicions and cases on it, is almost certainly going to backfire.

I think hints are far more likely coming from the Cobbler to the wolves. The Cobbler doesn't mind getting lynched, really, and as you say, hinting on the part of the wolves is rather risky this early.

[Nessa Telrunya]

I'm not really so sure about the whole Pitchwife suspicion I'm seeing here. With unexplained Day1 suspicion, when nearly anything would suffice, it's perfectly reasonable for him to want some answers. So where does that put Rikae? :confused: She seems to know something we don't.

[Boromir88]

I had a dream I was eating Frosted Mini Wheats, and when I woke up my pillow was gone.

Were they evil frosted mini wheats, or ordinary, and do you even like frosted mini wheats?

As to your pillow being gone, have you found it? And if so, where? Sometimes I throw my pillows around in my sleep. If this is the case, than it would suggest you were battling some unknown force.

If it's the case that someone took your pillow, in your sleep, than the pillow being gone is irrelevant to the dream.

I think hints are far more likely coming from the Cobbler to the wolves. The Cobbler doesn't mind getting lynched, really, and as you say, hinting on the part of the wolves is rather risky this early.

And we always forget the usual truth that gifteds walk the tight rope of sending cobbler hints so the wolves don't kill them, but not looking too cobblerish where they wind up getting lynched if no one has solid wolf suspects. It's a mighty fine tight-rope to walk.

[Boromir88]

Were they evil frosted mini wheats, or ordinary, and do you even like frosted mini wheats?

As to your pillow being gone, have you found it? And if so, where? Sometimes I throw my pillows around in my sleep. If this is the case, than it would suggest you were battling some unknown force.

If it's the case that someone took your pillow, in your sleep, than the pillow being gone is irrelevant to the dream.


Or maybe you ate your pillow while dreaming about eating frosted mini wheats?

[Rikae]

So where does that put Rikae? :confused: She seems to know something we don't.

If I did, it would behoove you as an innocent not to mention it.

But actually, I'm becoming relatively more OK with Pitchie and less so with Inzil and Lottie at the moment. It's all in the reactions...

Oh yeah, and: quite a lot of talk about how various roles are likely to behave for such a basic game, isn't there?

[Inziladun]

Or maybe you ate your pillow while dreaming about eating frosted mini wheats?

Such wisdom. A true gift, you have.

If I did, it would behoove you as an innocent not to mention it.

But actually, I'm becoming relatively more OK with Pitchie and less so with Inzil and Lottie at the moment. It's all in the reactions...

Oh yeah, and: quite a lot of talk about how various roles are likely to behave for such a basic game, isn't there?

Now there's the Rikae we know and love. ;)

[satansaloser2005]

Rikae, darling, I've missed you. <3

Thus, as a gesture of affection and joy at your return....

++Ri....

....ght then, I wish I could have gotten on more tonight, but it didn't work out. I'll do my best to run over the thread and put up some more reactions. If nothing else, I can at least pop in and vote. Hopefully I'll be back in the morning. :)

[Nogrod]

Exactly 12 hours to the deadline...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Should Aulë-quaintance be forgot....

...and Nessa brought to mind;

Inziladun gets free pass for today for making me laugh.

My major impression of the first part of today has been that no-one wants to stand out. Although Ozban looks as though he's a potential nutter. I'll give him a pass too. :p

Any one of you could be a wolf. Tomorrow will be more interesting. Be back to vote later, though also not for Cailin as that would be an awkward way to say hello after two months.

Ok, I at least have a mini-list of people not to vote for!

[Kitanna]

I meant to post again, but when I sat down to do so I had nothing new to say. But I have to go to work and I'll be there until the DL. Which means it's voe time.

++Pitch

I feel, though he's said a lot trying to look helpful, but hasn't really helped anything at all. Of course he still has 10ish hours to come back, but I don't. So going on what I have to work with now Pitch looks the most suspicious to me.

I don't have time to elaborate or dissect anyone else. Sorry.

[Nessa Telrunya]

I'll only be back briefly before the deadline, because I've got school slammed right into the middle. So hopefully my absence won't be misinterpreted, and there will be enough to read for a good vote. :p

[Macalaure]

Hey what's suspicious about that?You're the first one to mention cobblers and wolves sending messages. The first point in your first post. And if you look closer at the actual statement, it doesn't even really make sense. I have you down as cobbler until I find someone better.

Mac's big post of postiness was unnervingExcept that it wasn't even the longest one. Agan's just below it was a lot longer and several above were about the same length (with more text, though), so.. huh? :confused:

I think if we're to look at Pitch, let's look at his posts prior to asking Rikae and Sally to explain. To me he seems to be speaking a lot without saying anything. Like "here I am, being helpful, but I'm really being sneaky by making noise."This.

I think hints are far more likely coming from the Cobbler to the wolves. The Cobbler doesn't mind getting lynched, really, and as you say, hinting on the part of the wolves is rather risky this early.Exactly. But evidence of the sort "A, who might be a cobbler, is sending suspicious messages to B, who A might think might be a wolf" is not solid. If A is dead and certified evil, then yes, but not now.

[Ozban]

I believe that was a banter post. And he mentioned Shasta becase the last game he played in, we lynched Shasta-seer Day 1.

Exactly, I witnessed lynching Shasta-seer on day1 during my first game. It's quite memorable, not to mention how "thrilling" the game was after that. :(

I am concerned about Inzil, he's unreadable to me.

Boro amazes me, what a dream-teller. :D

One thing I can be sure of, I'm not voting Legate, I'm not willing to risk same banwagon I launched last time.


I feel, though he's said a lot trying to look helpful, but hasn't really helped anything at all. Of course he still has 10ish hours to come back, but I don't. So going on what I have to work with now Pitch looks the most suspicious to me.

I see more people as "unhelpful" as Pitch. Satan, Nessa I'd say. Way I see it He's just being himself.

I shall probably vote some low-profiler. There's hardly anything solid to latch onto.

Later...

[Ozban]

Sorry for double-posting, this just stroke me as I reread the one before.

I'm not really so sure about the whole Pitchwife suspicion I'm seeing here. With unexplained Day1 suspicion, when nearly anything would suffice, it's perfectly reasonable for him to want some answers. So where does that put Rikae? :confused: She seems to know something we don't.

Nessa, would you care to explain that post? Were you trying to suggest any powers, or even gift on Rikae's part? Why would you bring attention to someone whom you suspect to be the seer (that's how I understood your post) on Day1? Wouldn't that endanger the "possible-seer" ???
Way my reasoning goes that isn't something "good-guy" should do.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, so I am here like I promised... I won't have time to post anything anymore toDay, so here be a few quick comments and a vote after them.

From the louder people, or from the people who made some stronger impression on me:

I am not suspecting Agan - at least not because of what she said, as I believe what she said makes sense. And if she were a Wolf/Cobbler signaling to the Cobbler/Wolves, she would have actually given a more direct hint, I believe. But that is what she does not seem to do, in my opinion.

Her idea about the Seer revealing toDay if he/she has a known Wolf is actually a good one, as we would limit the kills to 1 and the Ranger could also protect the Seer at least for one more Day. However, it is rather late in the Day, so maybe it's a bit too late for that (and in any case, who knows if the Seer has dreamed about a Wolf anyway. It certainly does not make sense to reveal otherwise).

Nessa's math looks innocent, if you can say anything like that about math.

Mac looks sensible, if you can say anything like that about Mac.

Skip looks... interesting, but not really suspicious.

Inzil seems good to me, not as the last time when he was a Wolf. Oh, or the time before. Oh, or the time before. In fact, if he is the Wolf for something like the fourth time in a row (or almost in a row), I sincerely pity him (that's not to say that it's any less probable that he is one, but the point is, he just does not seem like one this time, or this far).

Not so much of Ozzy, but he is terribly funny. Not very much actually contributive, though. Still, nothing against him for the time being.

Pitchwife is posting, more like commenting, though it doesn't seem to be the 'I am also just Mr.Agreeable' attitude. I don't think at least, in contrary to some others who have said that, that he would do anything that smells of Wolf.

Speaking of him:
True, although it's probably easier for them to blend in among a larger crowd. The question is, what conclusions should we draw from this once we manage to lynch our first wolf? Like, should we automatically rule out wolf-on-wolf votes? I don't think so - even if the wolves won't sacrifice one of them frivolously, they still may be forced to do so willy-nilly, e.g. if two of them are in danger at the same time.
Not that, I think, but the basic idea makes sense. Like, we should not rule w-on-w votes, quite the opposite, if there are millions of votes (in this huge village), one vote for a fellow Wolf will get lost, and not even threaten the fellow Wolf - basically what you said. But if we lynch a Wolf, then it would be sensible to assume that it was not the WW's doing to orchestrate the lynch on Day 1. At least, I never rule out any possibility, but at least such votes should be less suspicious than others.

Who seems the most curious to me right now is Lottie.

Because of her posts, namely those things:
Agan calls certain roles 'she' habitually - the one that comes to mind is the cobbler. I haven't noticed her calling the seer 'she' before, but it seems like an Aganish sort of thing to do.
Now if we are speaking of Cobbler hints, THIS might be one. And...

I don't really have suspicions at this point. Sally had that one post that caught my eye (in the painful, eye's-gone-now kind of way, not in the oh-that's-so-pretty kind of way), but other than that, not much. I can see where people are coming from about Pitchie, but I don't think I would have noticed it on my own, so I'm hesitant to point fingers at him. Mac's big post of postiness was unnerving, but the one game I played with him (at least, I think that's the only game) I thought the same think about innocent!Mac.

But I do have a lot of people who seem reasonably not-evil right now. Agan looks almost too good (I'm oh so used to suspecting her :p). Kit looks really innocent so far - probably the most so - but I haven't played with her much, so I can't really be sure. Skip looks decent, in a not-ringing-any-alarms sort of way. Shasta seems rather innocent in a not-wolvish way.'
This was just a very well possibly Wolfy post. I mean, the sort of quiet raising of suspicion, putting in a few names and then saying you don't actually suspect them, but if any people follow your opinion, then you join the bandwaggon and point at that 'I have been saying that I suspect them all along'.

Therefore, since I have to vote

++Loslote

But okay, that's it from me, people - hope to meet you all toMorrow, then I should have far more time than toDay I had.

Edit: xed with Ozzy, whose timezone I will share in several hours...

[Aganzir]

Looked like a random thing thrown out by Rikae and this prompts Pitch to ask for reasons. Suddenly this makes him jumpy?
I only started to pay attention to the post when Rikae quoted it. Alone, I think it looked somewhat jumpy in the sense that it seemed very carefully phrased.

I find Boro deeply amusing.

Maybe it's her silence, which has been stated as a RL issue.
A silent sally is never up to anything good.

How would we murder a gifted when we don't know them (or did I miss something?)?
We wait for them to reveal and then lynch them.

And I can't even have a Guinness to help me make sense of things.
Is this because you're at work? :p

looking out now and possibly basing suspicions and cases on it, is almost certainly going to backfire.
You're twisting my words. I never said I'd base suspicions and cases on it, what I mean is that we should make it as difficult for them as possible. They are free to do whatever they wish if we sit back and think "la la la they're not going to hint anyway!" Keep an eye out for things that seem strange.

hinting on the part of the wolves is rather risky this early.
No it isn't. They have more information than we do.

I am aware I might be giving the baddies ideas. But if they haven't actually thought of this themselves before this, I dare guess they shouldn't be too difficult to catch.

gifteds walk the tight rope of sending cobbler hints so the wolves don't kill them, but not looking too cobblerish where they wind up getting lynched
There are also ordos who try to help the gifteds and give trouble to the baddies by looking cobblerish. :Merisu:

You're the first one to mention cobblers and wolves sending messages. The first point in your first post. And if you look closer at the actual statement, it doesn't even really make sense. I have you down as cobbler until I find someone better.
And? What's bad about that? If I have a point to make, why wait till post three? And what do you mean it doesn't make sense?

I don't like Mac.

[Macalaure]

And if she were a Wolf/Cobbler signaling to the Cobbler/Wolves, she would have actually given a more direct hint, I believe.

She couldn't be more obvious and she didn't have to be. The more direct hint won't come in bright daylight. She only needs to make sure the wolves won't misunderstand.

[elronds_daughter]

Right, well, I had been content to sit and watch everyone else debate and glean what I could (mostly because I'm no good at thinking strategically at all), but I should probably say a brief piece before DL.

Mac and Boro have amused me greatly. In an unrelated item, they also make the most sense to me. I can't pinpoint why, but there doesn't seem anything particularly wolfish about them.

I agree with Legate's point about Inzil not coming across as suspiciously as last time.

So. Not voting any of those four. Yet.

Pitch seems shady, for reasons others have mentioned. If it was just "Hey, wait, why me?", then I wouldn't be so worried, but it's been "Hey, wait, why me? Also, here's a lot of words to make me seem like I'm contributing."

Agan doesn't look too bad to me, maybe a little shifty, but I'll have to go back and read through things again. I'll do the same with Lottie, since I'm not entirely sure where Legate's vote came from...

Right, that's it from me for now. I'll be back briefly before DL to vote, but likely not much more; I have to do rather a lot of driving today.

[Inziladun]

I meant to post again, but when I sat down to do so I had nothing new to say. But I have to go to work and I'll be there until the DL. Which means it's voe time.

++Pitch

I feel, though he's said a lot trying to look helpful, but hasn't really helped anything at all. Of course he still has 10ish hours to come back, but I don't. So going on what I have to work with now Pitch looks the most suspicious to me.

I don't have time to elaborate or dissect anyone else. Sorry.

Pitch, eh? I'm not totally comfortable with him meself, and Kit's earlier comments on Pitch are fairly consistent, but this somehow feels like an easy vote.

I see more people as "unhelpful" as Pitch. Satan, Nessa I'd say. Way I see it He's just being himself.

Satan? Always unhelpful. *nods gravely*
Round here we call that wily girl "Sally". ;)

[A Little Green]

Alors, my friends, I am here at last. I was relieved when I found only two pages waiting for me (instead of, like, five or six, given the length of the Day and the number of villagers).

You can blame me for that because it was originally my suggestion. I semi-regret it now, just like I regret opposing Lommy who said the ranger should get two saves as long as the wolves get two kills (this took place somewhere else than the admin thread).
However I'm pretty sure we are going to see hinting. I've done it before and the village didn't pay any attention to me, and at least I intend not to be so careless. It's an entirely different matter how easy it is to spot, but however careful they are, in the long run we should be able to see connections.This passage looks fishy to me. What's the function of the first paragraph, other than underlining her own innocence? The second is screaming "Hello wolves I'm hinting to you!"

I have nothing against voting for a quiet player today if I don't have a better idea, just because I dislike both quiet wolves, gifteds and ordos.
(one of my favourite wolf strategies is to give the villagers a false sense of security by being strongly yet discreetly of the opinion we can check out yet another quiet/enigmatic person, and another, and another, until it's too late)Any comments? :D

Then about the whole Pitch affair. I think he looks more or less like he always does. But then, Nessa's defence of him looks pretty odd too:
I'm not really so sure about the whole Pitchwife suspicion I'm seeing here. With unexplained Day1 suspicion, when nearly anything would suffice, it's perfectly reasonable for him to want some answers. So where does that put Rikae? She seems to know something we don't.

But actually, I'm becoming relatively more OK with Pitchie and less so with Inzil and Lottie at the moment. It's all in the reactions...This makes me feel slightly better about Rikae. A wolf might not have wanted to back away from such a promising suspicion, unless she thought her work was already done and wanted to wash her hands, or unless the two are fellows. Gah.

I might have to resort to making a list at some point, the village is so huge that I'm having trouble remembering who are playing and what they have said.

[Aganzir]

Her idea about the Seer revealing toDay if he/she has a known Wolf is actually a good one, as we would limit the kills to 1 and the Ranger could also protect the Seer at least for one more Day.
I didn't say that! I never said anything about today. And I didn't say the seer should reveal but that she should keep in mind how many people die a night, and consider an early reveal if she deems it necessary.

INNOCENT
Inzil. Now, I know he's a very twisted person who has a tendency to feel bad when he's good and good when he's bad, but I like him at the moment.
Kit. Looks reasonable and I want to keep her around for longer.
Rikae. I want to keep her around for longer even if she's being enigmatic.
Cailín. I want to keep her around for longer.
Ozban. I've never played with him before plus he looks good enough so I don't think I'll vote for him.
Shasta. Seems okay.

GUILTY
Mac. Twisting my words and arguing against obvious stuff, plus his categorisation of people seems entirely arbitrary and he never bothered to explain it. I'm aware Mac and I don't always see eye to eye in werewolf, but I'd have nothing against lynching him today.
skip. Wants to vote for a quiet player (good), but if people like the idea the wolves may escape by posting more. Isn't that the point of it, so why does he put it negatively? A loud wolf is often easier to catch than a quiet, and nobody wants to lose to a one-liner/day wolf.
sally. Quiet.
Pitch. Wants to draw conclusions from the fact that the wolves probably want to keep their number intact as long as possible. Okay I'm not seriously suspecting him though.
Kath. Remembered day 1, ie. she's up to something.
Legate. Silly in the Legate way.
Boro. Doesn't strike me as particularly innocent (even if he doesn't feel exactly guilty either) and I will keep an eye on him just to be on the safe side.

I might vote for someone on the Guilty list, or then a quiet player. However now I need to go do the dishes, otherwise Lommy won't feed me tonight.

[Aganzir]

This passage looks fishy to me. What's the function of the first paragraph, other than underlining her own innocence? The second is screaming "Hello wolves I'm hinting to you!"
When I wrote it, my main feeling was annoyance over not being a baddie because this is exactly the kind of game I'd love to be one in. I was aware of my irritation, but not of the fact that I was underlining my innocence until you mentioned it.

And hello wolves I'm hinting to you!

Any comments?
Yes. It's only on the later stages that we can't really afford to lynch the quiet/not contributing players. ;)

Zut alors with you, poisson, I had missed playing with you too. <3

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm still liking Mac, but I think he might be making altogether too big a deal about Agan's post. It makes sense to me (but that might just be because I was just a wolf with her and know how she thinks :p).

On the other hand, Legate I think I'm good with because of his last post. There were several things about Lottie I wasn't really liking, but was hard-pressed to actually put those things into words. Legate managed quite nicely. When does Lottie "not really have suspicions"? Lottie always suspects someone. It bothers me that she apparently doesn't right now.

As of right now I'll probably be voting for Lottie, but I'll be around, off and on, until deadline.

[wilwarin538]

Alrighty, I'm here. I meant to come on yesterday but a co-worker had a family emergency (everything is fine now, thank goodness) so I had to fill in her shift short notice. But I should be around quite consistently for the next few hours.


Oh yeah, and: quite a lot of talk about how various roles are likely to behave for such a basic game, isn't there?

I have to agree, when I was reading through I was really surprised, I mean I know there isn't much more to talk about on Day 1, but still. We've all played before, we know how everything works, it's not like there's some new dynamic we have to worry about (maybe the double kills, but that discussion ends at "let's get a wolfie asap", which is nothing new really). The Seer can reveal when they feel like it, most of us have working brains, so I'm sure they don't need our advice. And the Cobbler very well may leave hints, but we're not trying to get rid of the Cobbler right now, we're trying to get rid of wolves, so lets focus on that for the moment, shall we? Any speculation right now about the Cobbler could leave us on a false trail super easily, and talking about the Seer too much can draw attention to the Seer.

So moving on...

I refuse to jump on the Pitch wagon. Just the fact that so many people find him guilty makes me think him innocent, because it's Day 1 and bandwaggons rarely ever end well on Day 1. So I'm not even remotely considering voting him (toDay) unless something obvious happens.

Now how do I feel about others (this is mostly a vibe thing, I'm starving so I'll come back after lunch to look more closely). Well Cupcake and Pop seem too....normal? Those lovely girls are usually a bit, stranger, and more...exuberant. But I guess that's not really a good reason to suspect them. Rikae and Mac seem like themselves, I know Rikae is usually louder, but the quiet and mysterious thing isn't unlike her either. Boro isn't trying to do some weird psychological experiment on us, and hasn't stirred up any controversy, which is weird. I was just recently wolves with Legate and Inzil, and neither of them are acting the way they did in that game, so that's a good sign for them. Skip and Shasta seem logical. Agan, uhm, I don't know, it's too obvious for her to be the Cobbler, but then again that could be her whole plan, so I don't know. I'm forgetting people....

I really need to eat something, and then I'll come back to look more closely at everyone.

[Loslote]

Except that it wasn't even the longest one. Agan's just below it was a lot longer and several above were about the same length (with more text, though), so.. huh? :confused:

Compared to the rest of your posts, it was the big one. I was specifying which post of yours unnerved me.

When does Lottie "not really have suspicions"? Lottie always suspects someone. It bothers me that she apparently doesn't right now.

Not always. Usually, yes, but it's happened before that I simply haven't suspected anyone enough to warrant a vote. Believe me, I'm just as bothered by it as you are. ;)

I probably won't be on again until a couple of hours before DL, but I do intend to come back and vote.

[satansaloser2005]

A silent Sally is never up to anything good? More like never up to anyrthing?

No one is seriously believing Agan, are they? I'd mentioned before the game even started that I have no proper webs, yet she's attacking me for being quiet. Quite ridiculous.


I've got some free time so I'll do my best to make a "proper" post while I have time. It may a bit though, so thanks in advance for being patient. :)

Edit: x'd since Agan-ish

[Rikae]

I'll clarify a bit. Pitch still makes me uneasy in his own right, but the willingness of others to jump on what looked like a Pitch-wagon in the making tends to put him in a more innocent light.

It is true that Inzil and Lottie have a tendency to always look guilty to me.

Agan clearly would have realized her behavior would look cobblerish and must be doing it deliberately, which tells us nothing. She could do that with absolutely any role.

Wilwa's seeming desire to admonish the village (yes, based on something I said, but I didn't say much) and wash her hands of the Pitch-wagon both strike me as evil attempts at being involved and positioning oneself in an innocentish way without actually having to go out on a limb.

[Valier]

sorry for my quietness....I've got a little grumpy maia to deal with ;) I should be around till DL and I am so glad there is only 2 pages to catch up on. I'm going to go back and have a read...I promised myself after not playing ww for awhile I will do everything I can to help this village rid itself of these baddies...so lets go have a look.

[Pitchwife]

My, my, Rikae's laconic uneasiness with me has sprouted and borne fruit, it seems. Evidently it's 'being jumpy' to ask someone who throws a laconic oneliner like that at me for explanations, especially when it was her first post and she'd singled me out without commenting on anybody else, yes?:rolleyes:
Looking at her later posts, she was rather quick to backpedal when questioned about that remark - but by then her 'uneasiness' (I'm not really sure whether to call it a suspicion yet) had been picked up by several others, so maybe she was content to relax and let them do the work? It would be awfully easy to see wolvish behaviour there - a little too easy, I think. I'm actually more inclined to think she was trying to test me for reaction, or maybe even throwing that remark out as a bait to see who would latch on to it.
Kit, for example - if I remember correctly, it was she who first posted a real suspicion with arguments to it against me. On the other hand, she also questioned Rikae and Sally for reasons, and it looks like she weighed the pros and cons impartially before voting. Her vote is understandable due to time constraints, I think, so I'll let her be for toDay.
Mac too, and I notice that he made a point of commending Kit for good posting (buttering up?) and subsequently latched on to the things she said about me. Otherwise, he and Agan are giving me a major headache with that cobbler-hint discussion. I don't see through it yet - better watch them both.

Legate and Shasta have both remarked how Lottie is remarkably un-talkative this game and not quite her regular self, which has bothered me too, but I'm a bit puzzled by this:
Agan calls certain roles 'she' habitually - the one that comes to mind is the cobbler. I haven't noticed her calling the seer 'she' before, but it seems like an Aganish sort of thing to do.

Now if we are speaking of Cobbler hints, THIS might be one.
I'm not sure what you're saying here, Legate - that Lottie says Agan calling the cobbler 'she' is a cobbler-hint, or that Lottie is cobbler-hinting herself in this quote? If the latter, I'd say that's quite a stretch.
(As for the matter itself, I've noticed that Agan habitually calls all roles 'she' - obviously she doesn't hold with gender-neutral pronouns; so this is certainly not a cobbler-hint on her part.)


Regarding the rest of the village, I'm feeling OK with Boro (and will be feeling even more OK once he cuts the dream-interpreting banter and gets down to business) and skip and not alarmed yet by Zil and Shasta. I'd like to hear more from Ozzy, he hasn't really said anything that's stuck in my memory yet.
Nessa has, I believe, some posts of rather nondescript content as well (have I said that I hate math?). And there's a lot of people still dozing under my caribou with only a post or two - Eomer, BG, Ms Hubbard, Valier, anybody else? I keep forgetting how many people we've got in this village.

Now let's see how many people I've already x-ed with...

EDIT: from #79 onward, that is.

[wilwarin538]

I'll clarify a bit. Pitch still makes me uneasy in his own right, but the willingness of others to jump on what looked like a Pitch-wagon in the making tends to put him in a more innocent light.

....

Wilwa's seeming desire to admonish the village (yes, based on something I said, but I didn't say much) and wash her hands of the Pitch-wagon both strike me as evil attempts at being involved and positioning oneself in an innocentish way without actually having to go out on a limb.

So you feel he looks innocent because of the wagon, and I look bad for agreeing with you? And I feel telling the village that some of their discussion has been a waste of time, is kind of putting myself out there.

I need to leave in about 2 hours so I have to start figuring out who I want to vote for. I'll be lingering around for that time, and I'll skim back through some stuff, and try to come up with someone logical.

x'ed with Pitch

[Rikae]

Wow - a couple of jumpy people there.

[Rikae]

++Wilwa

[Ozban]

Not so much of Ozzy, but he is terribly funny. Not very much actually contributive, though. Still, nothing against him for the time being.

Well... Thanks? :D

You got a point with Lottie, that second post really looks alibistic. But I can easily imagine ordo writing that, just to cover himself. I saw that happen.

Round here we call that wily girl "Sally".

Ah, thanks. Wasn't sure whom was everybody referring to.

I'd love to hear more from Sally. Way it is, i might as well vote for her, she's keeping low profile, not helping at all... Than that question of informations Rikae supposedly had. And although i hate that phrase, got some gut feeling, that everything isn't allright about her.

I'd also like to hear something from Lommy. I don't suspect her, I'd just like to hear what she thinks.

I'm losing my faith in Agan after last few posts. But as Rikae said, her behavior can mean anything.

And there is number of people who are quiet all the time, or so it seems. Cailín, Mänwe, what can I think of them?

DL is drawing nearer...

P.S.: Pitch: Legate isn't going to answer, he's on the plane, unless i'm terribly mistaken.

X'd since 82.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I refuse to jump on the Pitch wagon. Just the fact that so many people find him guilty makes me think him innocent, because it's Day 1 and bandwaggons rarely ever end well on Day 1. So I'm not even remotely considering voting him (toDay) unless something obvious happens.

This strikes me as trying too hard. What 'Pitch-wagon'?

[wilwarin538]

Agan calls certain roles 'she' habitually - the one that comes to mind is the cobbler. I haven't noticed her calling the seer 'she' before, but it seems like an Aganish sort of thing to do.

Now if we are speaking of Cobbler hints, THIS might be one.

I'm not sure what you're saying here, Legate - that Lottie says Agan calling the cobbler 'she' is a cobbler-hint, or that Lottie is cobbler-hinting herself in this quote? If the latter, I'd say that's quite a stretch.
(As for the matter itself, I've noticed that Agan habitually calls all roles 'she' - obviously she doesn't hold with gender-neutral pronouns; so this is certainly not a cobbler-hint on her part.)

I agree, I don't know what Legate is getting at. Agan always refers to unknown people as a 'she', it's her way of protesting against our male-dominated society (at least, that's what I like to think she's doing). So no wolf looking at that would ever think it a Cobbler hint, it's just something she always does no matter what. And I don't see how what Lottie says could be a Cobbler hint. I'd like some clarification here on what he meant.

I do agree with this:


I don't really have suspicions at this point. Sally had that one post that caught my eye (in the painful, eye's-gone-now kind of way, not in the oh-that's-so-pretty kind of way), but other than that, not much. I can see where people are coming from about Pitchie, but I don't think I would have noticed it on my own, so I'm hesitant to point fingers at him. Mac's big post of postiness was unnerving, but the one game I played with him (at least, I think that's the only game) I thought the same think about innocent!Mac.

But I do have a lot of people who seem reasonably not-evil right now. Agan looks almost too good (I'm oh so used to suspecting her ). Kit looks really innocent so far - probably the most so - but I haven't played with her much, so I can't really be sure. Skip looks decent, in a not-ringing-any-alarms sort of way. Shasta seems rather innocent in a not-wolvish way.'

This was just a very well possibly Wolfy post. I mean, the sort of quiet raising of suspicion, putting in a few names and then saying you don't actually suspect them, but if any people follow your opinion, then you join the bandwaggon and point at that 'I have been saying that I suspect them all along'.

She does sort of seem to be agreeing about any major suspicions brought forward, enough that she could vote for them and point out that she had considered it earlier....but then showing she's not positive, so if they wind up innocent she can say she never fully suspected them.

x'ed since my last post

[wilwarin538]

This strikes me as trying too hard. What 'Pitch-wagon'?

This one:

Option 1: Pitch is being jumpy.
Option 2: Pitch is genuinely curious about being suspected by a couple of people on day 1.

The passive-aggressive phrasing makes me inclined towards option 1.

We have Pitch, who pinged my personal radar from the moment he said "havens forfend we do something like the Shasta lynch again!", but that's a Lottie reason so I'm going to need more to go on. And besides that, he's suspected by an awful lot of people so far, considering. From personal experience as a wolf I know that wolves don't need to do much to push a Day 1 bandwagon right into an innocent, but it's something to look at.


I can see where people are coming from about Pitchie, but I don't think I would have noticed it on my own, so I'm hesitant to point fingers at him.


++Pitch

I feel, though he's said a lot trying to look helpful, but hasn't really helped anything at all. Of course he still has 10ish hours to come back, but I don't. So going on what I have to work with now Pitch looks the most suspicious to me.



Pitch seems shady, for reasons others have mentioned. If it was just "Hey, wait, why me?", then I wouldn't be so worried, but it's been "Hey, wait, why me? Also, here's a lot of words to make me seem like I'm contributing."


Now most of those just seem a bit unsure about him, but it's enough that at some point, when people have no one else to vote for, they'll default back on him. So it's more a Pitch-wagon in the making. I've seen enough disastrous Day 1 waggons to know what the initial signs are. The interesting thing is that there aren't actually that many people who strongly suspect him, but everyone is under the idea that lots of people do, and they therefore consider him an option.

[Valier]

ok well going through the posts so far....made it through 8 players. Hmmm so far I think Pitch is looking ok to me, I'm not sure why he has warrented all the attention, So I won't be voting him. Also Nessa seems fairly innocent (well not pinging on my radar yet) Wilwa looks ok.... Lets seeeeee Shasta looks a little fishy to me as well as Rikae, I dont think I like her very odd vote, since she out and out suspected Pitch then voted otherwise.
I must say Lommy and Greenie seem a little uncharacteristicly quiet to me.... Akkkk so many people to go through yet...I'll be back

[Valier]

double post... I agree with you Wilwa on your last paragraph concerning Pitch. Bandwagoning on D1 is always a shame, though to alot of people may seem the easiest route to take, when they are unsure of who to vote for.
But it is always a good place for a wolf to hide. Also I believe a good place for a wolf to hide D1 is to adamently oppose a bandwagon that may be a fellow wolf or to protect another wolf who has jumped on the wagon...I hope that made sense...I'm thinking while I'm typing..

[Pitchwife]

I'd love to hear more from Sally. Way it is, i might as well vote for her, she's keeping low profile, not helping at all... Than that question of informations Rikae supposedly had.
Agree it's most unlike Sally to be so quiet, but didn't she give advance warning that she wouldn't get to post a lot? I think I remember something like that from the Admin thread.
The question about Rikae's knowledge was raised by Nessa, however (#55). And yes, that was at best careless, if by an innocent.

I had overlooked wilwa's post when writing my last, and even forgotten she was playing. It's remarkable how she makes a big show of opposing the 'Pitchwagon', but only a few posts later carefully joins and feeds the growing suspicion against Lottie raised by Legate earlier, while at the same time agreeing with my questioning of one of Legate's points against Lottie, so it doesn't look like she's just latching on to him wholesale, if you get my meaning.
I feel a bit puzzled by Lottie's quietness myself, but truth to be told, I think I've seen her at a loss for early suspicions before when innocent, and her reaction at #78 feels rather innocent-Lottie'ish to me.

[wilwarin538]

It's remarkable how she makes a big show of opposing the 'Pitchwagon', but only a few posts later carefully joins and feeds the growing suspicion against Lottie raised by Legate earlier, while at the same time agreeing with my questioning of one of Legate's points against Lottie, so it doesn't look like she's just latching on to him wholesale, if you get my meaning.

I asked for Legate to clarify, that doesn't mean I suspect him (I don't, I feel quite good about him). I also didn't say I suspect Lottie (though I'm not saying I trust her), just that the one post Legate pointed out is odd looking, I would need to look at her way more closely before I'd suspect her. And the difference between the Lottie wagon, and the one for you, is that you don't really look suspicious, you're acting like yourself, people are only considering you because they think everyone else suspects you (which really not many do). While Lottie actually seems to have some legitimate points against her.

I find it interesting that so far 2 people distrust me mainly for agreeing with them. :rolleyes:

[wilwarin538]

Just got a call from the Boss, I don't have to work tonight so I can stay til DL. So since I now don't have to leave early, I'm going to take a break from the computer. I'll be back in about an hour.

[Boromir88]

I have to agree, when I was reading through I was really surprised, I mean I know there isn't much more to talk about on Day 1, but still. We've all played before, we know how everything works, it's not like there's some new dynamic we have to worry about (maybe the double kills, but that discussion ends at "let's get a wolfie asap", which is nothing new really). The Seer can reveal when they feel like it, most of us have working brains, so I'm sure they don't need our advice. And the Cobbler very well may leave hints, but we're not trying to get rid of the Cobbler right now, we're trying to get rid of wolves, so lets focus on that for the moment, shall we? Any speculation right now about the Cobbler could leave us on a false trail super easily, and talking about the Seer too much can draw attention to the Seer.

I don't understand how it is a waste to discuss roles and possibilities. First off it is Day 1 and we need some sort of plan, as the wolves get to plan ahead of time. We can scrap this plan at any moment and go for another one, but we need to do something. Some like to look at reactions by throwing out and starting suspicion, some watch day 1 and organize all their thoughts into a few analytical posts, some form an exhaustive and impossible plan, others talk about roles and mechanics.

None of these are "wasteful" things to post, they all provide usable in-game info. The only waste is simply not posting and providing no info, or meta-game reasons. While I think it's nice to be aware of when people have to leave, if and when they'll be back before DL...etc I call it "waste" in the sense that it speaks towards no one's guilty or innocence.

And frankly, no none of us are stupid. Yes we all know how to use brains (sometimes I question the sanity of Lommy's, but she put her brain to good hard work last game). However, I have to ask what do you think is a bigger insult to our intelligence? Saying "cobbler is probably going to hint towards the wolves, more than vice versa," and "The seer/ranger/hunter should do blahdablah"? Or honestly thinking if I say "To the seer, dream of Lottie tonight!" and Shasta's gonna post "Aye Aye master Boro, I'm on it!"

The gifteds will follow their own minds, regardless of what people guess they should or will try to do. The reason I try to do it is to try and organize my jumbled mess of thoughts when thinking about who to vote for and who not to. It's silly to post "I won't vote for Agan, cus I think she's the ranger." But if I can start guessing what the cobbler would do in this situation, the wolves, the gifteds...etc than I can start putting people in groups accordingly.

I'm not understanding how it's an evil Melkor sign of evilness to discuss roles, or how it's a waste at all.

This strikes me as trying too hard. What 'Pitch-wagon'?

Day 1 wagons spring up from the most unexplainable beginnings. Voting's typically tight on Day 1 and sometimes it doesn't take more than 3 or 4 votes to get lynched. So acquiring 1 the person might feel jumpy or in danger, acquiring 2 and 3 you're names going to be sweating it to the the DL.

Pitch has one vote and there are low whispers of vague uneasiness about him. We've seen these situations before, and as I've joked with Pitch who never will be able to get rid of his "Mr. Agreeable" marking. Some reason or another, agreeableness = wolfiness. And while no one's come out to make strong statements of suspicion towards Pitch, there has been a consensus of general distrust. Beginning with Rikae's mention of uneasiness, and then Pitch's so called "jumpiness" from Agan and others. It has been no band-wagon of votes, but I'm getting the sense that Pitch is making people nervous and being "agreeable."

I mean if people can't think of stronger suspicions, who are they going to vote for when they have to...a random "no read" person, or someone who's made them a little nervous? It has all the marks of a band-wagon, just not the votes and I'm more scratching my head on the strong "refusal" of wilwa, not the spotting a bandwagon prematurely.

(I've probably crossed, so this is a pre-mature Edit: :p)

[Pitchwife]

I must say Lommy and Greenie seem a little uncharacteristicly quiet to me....
Yep, especially Lommy - what, first post and then nothing more for close to 30 hours or something, from a player renowned for her verbosity? What's the matter with her?
Greenie has posted a little more at least - mostly joining Mac in seeing cobbler hints in Agan's each and every post; which is entirely possible. I mean, Agan is daring enough to sort of hide in the open, and I remember an Agan-cobbler who talked about the cobbler all the time; but since our primary aim is not to lynch the cobbler but the wolves, I'm disinclined to vote her for the time being. It's when she starts other people of being the cobbler that I'll get worried about her.
I mean, really, early in the Day there sort of was a consensus that we've got to get a wolf ASAP in order to cut down the double Night-kills, but now some people have nothing better to do than looking for the cobbler? I'm looking at you, Mac.
Back to Greenie, her comment on the issue of Rikae vs me is very to-and-fro, with all that unless this, and unless that. Maybe genuine confusion, but I remember where giving her the benefit of doubt on this got me last time, so I'll be wary of her.

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, first of all, why am I the spirit of muffins?!?! I demand an explanation!!!!!!!! >.<


Anyway, to business now, eh? (And with the added good news that I’m typing this post on Abigail, and thus able to bold people’s names. Exciting, I know!)


I’m not immediately suspicious of Lommie’s first post, but I find it interesting that she feels the need to remind us that we need to kill a wolf. Yes, I know, she didn’t really have anything else to say, and she is one to put forth substance (which is good), but her comment about the two kills being “disgusting” seems wrong to me. Just something to file away for later really.


Legate said “prolongate”. This keeps him safe from my Day 1 wrath, as he’s clearly insane. :)


Surprisingly, I like the lioness’s suggestion that the seer could come out if they dream a wolf straight off. Nerwen, anything you’d like to share? No? Sadness. As much as I hate to say it, I consider the seer an acceptable sacrifice if it means we can rid ourselves of the double kills. However, this also could run us into trouble if we have multiple reveals or what have you, as a wolf could “reveal” and condemn an innocent; we would be down an innocent (and imagine if the wolves managed to fake-dream our real seer! :eek:) and the wolves, while down a wolf upon the next Day, would still have a double kill that Night. Basically, let’s just make sure that we weigh any reveals carefully. I think the wolves wouldn’t just fake reveal for the fun of it, but if their circumstances are dire (i.e. their double kills are threatened) they might take drastic action to maintain their advantage as long as possible. Proceed with caution, etc.


I agree with Pitch as well. Let’s not kill the newbie just because we can. If she’s a wolf, however....


I like Cailin. Let’s not kill her. That would make me cranky.


Boro has a very good point. Rather than saying what we shouldn’t do, why not talk about what we should? Lommie did this, as well as Agan. Pitch is very quick to specifically say not to kill BG, and several have said to be proactive rather than just grumble about Day 1. But how are we to tell which are good or evil, which are just pontificating and which are actually trying to further discussion? It’s impossible at this point, at least for me. ToMorrow we can loot the bodies; toDay let’s do all we can to prevent the bodies from multiplying overNight.


And yes please, no Shasta-wagon on me. No, I’m not a gifted, but I still don’t wanna die, thanks. I’d like to know why Lottie knee-jerked against me however. What’d I do now?


Now I shall briefly share a past experience. In the Library Game of Epic Wolf (and Cobbler) Fail, our beloved helper sent us his name first. I believe the system was the same, though I would love for Boro, Shasta, or Nessa to clarify. (I think Mac may have done it to myself and Nerwen too; my memory is a bit shoddy today, alas.) The point is that the cobbler could easily suggest themself toNight and basically give the wolves their identity. Of course they run the risk of being killed *cough* Boro *cough* but if it works it could pay off big time. And yeah, I know, I’ve probably given the cobbler ideas, but I think a clever cobbler would think of it anyway. I think it could be a serious problem for us if the cobbler is able to identify themself to the wolves, so if we catch the cobbler, I’d be more than happy to kill them (or at the very least have them hunted). Of course wolves must be our first priority but if the wolves know their cobbler and one of them is in danger, they could easily sacrifice their cobbler in order to keep their double kills. I don’t want a cobbler-cide to happen. I want to kill wolves. Thus, let’s make sure that, if the cobbler is killed, the village is the one doing it, and not the wolves, so the baddies can’t use the cobbler’s death to their advantage.


Looking back again, I find it even more confusing why I find Skip suspicious. Strange. It was probably his vote-spreading suggestion, which while good for protecting from unfortunate bandwagons is also good for allowing wolves to influence the vote without tying each other together.


Cailin thinks Pitch is very “polite’ and has answers for everything. The problem is that she seems to consider it a positive quality, whereas I find his preparation and forethought suspicious.


Nessa is....weird. Which is normal for her, I think, but it’s still....weird. I don’t want to lynch her just for giving figures, but I see that too often as a “helpful” wolf tactic, so I’m shaky.


Hey, I actually invented a way to lessen wolves chance of murdering one of gifteds, we can lynch one of them ourselves!* Has anyone seen*Shasta?

I’m glad I forgot to rep you for the last game we played together. Now I can rep you for that. ^_^


Kit is bizarre and (un)reasonable. Her predictions are very interesting.


Skip points out potential flaws in the seer reveal plan, different and yet just as valid ones as I did above. However, his words seem to ring false. He seems more interested in hushing the seer than in using them. Yes, it’s a risk, but if the seer reveals at the right time it could be a major blow to the wolves. I doubt anyone’s suggesting the seer reveal now, but rather when they have information that can be beneficial, both a wolf dream and trails to past dreams which we can trace posthumously. It seems to me like Skip wants to set the seer up on a shelf and not use them. Is he worried about being revealed as a wolf? Is he legitimately concerned for the seer’s welfare? Is he the seer himself? Or is he just arguing for the sake of it? Only time will tell, but for now I can’t feel comfortable with his post.


Aaaaand the most damaging point against Skip is brought up first in Mac’s #35. If the seer only suspects wolves (or, for that matter, only vindicates innocents), they become an instant target for the wolves. I wanted to save my thoughts until I was commenting on Mac’s post, because this is a good catch for Mac (which is to say that he made a good catch, not that he’s normally incapable of such a discovery). He also makes some mention of Agan being suspicious for bladdity blah blah, which I’d love for him to explain if he’s able. I don’t disagree with him, but I don’t see it as an immediate ping either, so I’d love his opinion.


Haha. Kath points out Pitch’s inconsistency as well. Not inconsistent so much as a bit too perfect until you inspect it a bit closer, I suppose, but still. He seems to be trying to hard to point out things that look helpful, yet accuses others for doing the same. He seems too....I don’t even know, as my brain is sort of flopping in all different directions, but I certainly don’t like what he’s been saying (or at least how he’s been saying it). Pitch is far too smooth, and Kath’s notice of his commentary on Oz’s post highlights that. He seems to be the ultimately helpful villager, even poking at those who may be participating less and urging them to be more forceful and less obvious/lazy/blah blah. My brain is getting away from me, but basically he’s highly disconcerting and plastic.


Agan’s #40 had me feeling happy until I read “I like X but that doesn’t mean they’re innocent” twice within ten seconds. I’m very undecided on her, but I know it’s partly because she’s ragging on me for not having any internet. I think she’s a bit too casual with her suspicions, which makes me wonder why. It seems to be mostly this post though, which is even weirder than weirder. I need to step back and think more about her.


Re: Lottie’s #44. Thanks, dear. Thanks a lot. *whimpers, sniffles, feels unloved*


I love that Kit is going to defiantly post. What are you in defiance of? *winks*


BG’s #47 is so bloody bizarre. I can’t decide whether or not she’s serious about Oz. And she’s just not going to vote? If you suspect someone, you vote. (Like I said, her Oz suspicion almost has to be a joke, but....I just don’t know.) This is very confusing. :/


Dun makes sense and eats his pillow. The two conditions are not mutually exclusive. I like him. :D

Nope, I lied. He talks about Nessa’s odds talk and then mentions my name. I totally missed something. I don’t suppose I could get clarification?


Mac continues to make sense in his #53. The wolves likely won’t hint to the cobbler. The cobbler, however, will hint to the wolves. Thus my above cobblery thoughts.



And with that I’ve read up to my #60. Posting this and will share more after lunch.

[Inziladun]

Is this because you're at work? :p

As a matter of fact, I was at home when I wrote that, but on call, which means no alcohol. That said, I think Guinness could potentially be very beneficial to my work productivity. ;)

Speaking of which, I'm trying to eat something now, and have things to do for the next two hours, so further from me toDay is looking doubtful.

I'm unsure enough about Pitch that I'll let that particular wagon pass me by just now.

Nessa seems off; the "oddsmaking" post just looks like trying to seem helpful. That sort of thing would be understandable in the Endgame, but really, why do that on Day 1, except to say something for the sake of not being a submarine?

So....

++Nessa

Thin, I know, but I'm afraid that's all you'll get toDay.

Later, compadres.

[Kath]

Well and that's the dilemma isn't it?

Is it a bandwagon against an innocent Pitch pushed by evil doers ... or is it that an evil Pitch is struggling and has been caught out.

If the latter it IS a bandwagon but not necessarily a bad one.

BUT - it's Day 1. Very rarely do we get that lucky and get a wolf based on a slip. And either way a bandwagon is never a brilliant thing because it provides less to work from when looking at how people have voted.

So, whether Pitch is evil or not, it would be good to get the votes spread out. At the moment it looks like half the village will go for Pitch, and half the village will go for someone who suspects Pitch ... well at least it will be spread out. :D

Anyway, a slow review of what's been happening will appear soon enough. Though I'm working on a little computer so it'll be slower than usual.

Oh and to answer Rikae: I didn't realise we only had one retractable all game, I thought it was each Day.

[Thinlómien]

It's rather funny I myself said "no slacking" and here I am with one post this far. :rolleyes: But now that I've sent my distraction back to Prague, I can fully concentrate until the DL if I wish.

Lommy - I would take offence at my inability to play Day 1 being made into a verb, but as I thought I'd done it again I can't.Poor Kath! I'm sorry.

I had a dream I was eating Frosted Mini Wheats, and when I woke up my pillow was gone. Unless I get any serious suspicions, I will vote Zil just because he made me spill tea on my keyboard. :D

Alors, my friends, I am here at last.*loves Greenie to pieces*

Yes we all know how to use brains (sometimes I question the sanity of Lommy's, but she put her brain to good hard work last game)HEY!!! Am I supposed to take that as a compliment?!

Yep, especially Lommy - what, first post and then nothing more for close to 30 hours or something, from a player renowned for her verbosity? What's the matter with her?Legate was here so I was a bit distracted, but as I said above, he's now on his way home so I should be around. Three hours to make up for the long silence!

Okay, and seemingly I have nothing to say, or more like, my thoughts are scattered randomly around my brain. I'll make a list to try to make some sense out of this.

[Pitchwife]

Wow, Sally is back in her familiar splendour. That's nice, although I disagree with practically everything she says.
For clarification:
Pitch is very quick to specifically say not to kill BG
This is because I remember a game where she was lynched for sheer newbishness (much like the kind in her post about Ozzy) on D1 and had a nervous breakdown subsequently. I don't want to see that repeated toDay; later in the game is a different matter. Besides, didn't you agree with me a few lines further up?

Kit is bizarre and (un)reasonable. Her predictions are very interesting.
What's bizarre and unreasonable about her? Didn't she say the same things about me which you're now reiterating in oh so many words?

Aaaaand the most damaging point against Skip is brought up first in Mac’s #35. If the seer only suspects wolves (or, for that matter, only vindicates innocents), they become an instant target for the wolves. I wanted to save my thoughts until I was commenting on Mac’s post, because this is a good catch for Mac (which is to say that he made a good catch, not that he’s normally incapable of such a discovery).
Sorry, that's not that damaging at all, and I think you're putting words in his mouth here; especially as skip later explained himself by referring to Lommy's last game.

No time to comment on the rest of this epic post, I'll have to come back to it in a quieter hour.

[Valier]

not quite sure I like Inzil's vote for Nessa....because there is always at least one person who has to do the math. Seems an easy wolfish vote maybe?.... Yay Lommy's here!!! It's been a long time since we have played together, so I wont be voting for you....yet;) I am very unsure about my vote today....I'm leaning towards Rikae or Inzil at the moment, but you never can tell wang..

[Boromir88]

HEY!!! Am I supposed to take that as a compliment?!


It's supposed to be taken in the same way that Bilbo meant "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you, half as well as you deserve"

That was more of a way for me to remember you're playing. I can't stay to the DL and began thinking about who to vote for, since I work completely backwards in thinking more about who I don't want to vote for. So, I viewed the player list and remembered several people I had forgotten about, you, Manwe, Nessa, Greenie, and Shasta to name a few.

This group of the "I've forgotten" is where my vote is leaning towards, but I've honestly gotten tired of voting for you. That was my check/poking to see if you were paying attention, or even alive. Looks like it worked! :p

[skip spence]

Have just browsed the thread.

Votes so far:
Cailin -> Agan
Kitanna -> Pitchwife
Legate -> Lottie
Rikae -> Wilwa
Inzil -> Nessa

Just a quick comment on this, will be back a bit later (1 h?) with more.

Skip points out potential flaws in the seer reveal plan, different and yet just as valid ones as I did above. However, his words seem to ring false. He seems more interested in hushing the seer than in using them. Yes, it’s a risk, but if the seer reveals at the right time it could be a major blow to the wolves. I doubt anyone’s suggesting the seer reveal now, but rather when they have information that can be beneficial, both a wolf dream and trails to past dreams which we can trace posthumously. It seems to me like Skip wants to set the seer up on a shelf and not use them. Is he worried about being revealed as a wolf? Is he legitimately concerned for the seer’s welfare? Is he the seer himself? Or is he just arguing for the sake of it? Only time will tell, but for now I can’t feel comfortable with his post.


Aaaaand the most damaging point against Skip is brought up first in Mac’s #35. If the seer only suspects wolves (or, for that matter, only vindicates innocents), they become an instant target for the wolves.
Think you are twisting my words, unintentionally or not. I clarified to Mac (as I remember) that I don't suggest that the Seer should suspect or clear ONLY those he or she is sure about. That would indeed be a great risk of exposure. I did say the Seer should be careful not to point a finger at one specific unknown. As I said, we had a bad recent experience when this happened. Didn't you also play that game?

Edit: X'ed from 98 and down

[Ozban]

Sally I wanted to "read some more from you"...
But THIS??? :eek:
This is gonna take some time.

[wilwarin538]

Boro, I think I'm just tired of seeing the same conversations every Day 1. If something new had been brought up fine, but that wasn't the case, it was the same old stuff about roles we're all familiar with. Yeah, I get that we need to start discussion somewhere (and no I can't think of really anything else to talk about at the beginning), but I felt it was continuing for a bit too long, when there was now actual people to talk about. And honestly, telling the Seer to not be too obvious with their hints, and to make sure to reveal if they have important information, is insulting their intelligence, and stating that we should keep an eye out for Cobbler hints is sort of obvious, and doesn't warrant so much talk.

But moving on...

Okay, first of all, why am I the spirit of muffins?!?! I demand an explanation!!!!!!!! >.<

Because they are awesome, and everyone should want to be the spirit of muffins. Oh, and I'm happy you have the chance to participate, but I forgot how crazy long your posts are, my ADD doesn't like you right now :p. *sigh* But I'll read it anyway...

[Valier]

just had to say...I really dislike it when people tell the Seer what to do or well hint at what to do...Most of us have played this game enough that if we were the seer we would know what to do and know when the appropriate time to reveal ourself is. Also the seer should know not to point too directly at anyone unless they did dream of a wolf annnnd if they are in fear of getting lynched. enough said on the seer point please!!

[Nogrod]

As I see two people have of late entertained the idea of voting Manwë let me re-state what I said in the admin thread yesterday: I realised Manwë said this already before Christmas:

Well turns out i'll now be spending New Years in London and so won't be around the net from the 29th til the 5th, so count me out of any earlish starts!So a modfire will not threathen him unless he is away from the game two Days in a row after January the 5th. Also, he will be mod-protected against any attempt to his life up to the 5th as he has notified us about his time-table problems early enough.That I think is only fair as he notified us of his situation like three weeks ago.

[Valier]

thanks wilwa you pretty much said what I was thinking and tried to say...You look ok in my books...so far.

[Pitchwife]

Time to think about a vote.
I'm not going to vote for Cailín and Valier in their first game in ages, and Manwe for the same reason plus per Nogmod's decree. Not for BG for reasons specified above. Not for Boro and skip because I like them, and not for Agan, Kit, Legate, Ozzy, Rikae, Zil and Shasta because I'd like to see more of them. Not for Lottie because that would be the easy way out.
Sally I don't yet know what to think of.
I'm feeling squeamish about wilwa (but her response to me has eased my stomach a bit) and Greenie.
I might vote Mac for his cobbler-hunting, which I feel is a counterproductive distraction at this point. Or alternatively one of the quieter ones, preferably either L.Ron's daughter (whose single post was basically agreeing with a lot of people and latching on to the Pitch-suspicion) or Nessa, who hasn't been very productive either and also has that "Rikae-knows-something-we-don't" thing against her.
And I've no idea about anybody else (which is an awful lot of people).

EDIT: x-ed from #102 down.

[Thinlómien]

Eomer of the Rohirrim - has totally flown under my radar, which is not typical of him. Not sure what to make of it.

elronds_daughter - nothing seems terribly off if not totally right either. Won't judge her yet.

Macalaure - I find him - funny enough - very innocent. And besides it's been ages since I played with him and I like playing him a lot so I won't vote for him toDay unless he totally changes his course.

Shastanis Althreduin - elusive. Can't think of a better word for him.

Loslote - she's been suspected by several people and I don't totally understand why. I can't make much out of her or the suspicions against her, but it's possibly because I couldn't concentrate very throughly on reading. (I blame my friend who is sick :p and has possibly made me catch it too, I don't feel completely healthy.)

Kitanna - must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1

wilwarin538 - seems to be a little touchy which in my books is usually a sign of some RL stress or lack of time: Wilwa can keep her cool both as a wolf and as a gifted when being under as low pressure as the current one. Ergo, won't judge her based on that.

Nessa Telrunya - if the only thing we get from her is slightly faulty maths, it's definitely something to make me riase my eyebrows. Trying to look helpful?

Pitchwife - 1) I like a lot of his points/posts. 2) He is jumpy. So, another unsure for me, I'm afraid.

Satansaloser2005 - gives me a little fishy vibes. Something off with that long post of hers, but can't really pinpoint it. And I had a dream of her last night, she wanted to watch Jack Sparrow in drag from my iPod but I refused it based on the fact that my iPod had too little battery left, so I'm kind of feeling amusedly affectionate towards her atm, which might blur my perception of her.

Inziladun - seems ok this far: sharp, to the point and funny. On the other hand, he made me spill my tea.

Rikae - reminds me of light cavalry: comes quickly, stabs and retreats before anyone can retaliate, keeps out of sight. Whether light cavalry equals wolf, I'm not sure, because it honestly more like equals horse. :D

Boromir88 - I'm aware nobody has any reason to trust my "bororadar" anymore after last game, but I could almost bet he's innocent. It's just the tone, kind of uncompromising "take it or leave it, I'm here" attitude which he simply doesn't have when he is a wolf.

A Little Green - is making puns related to her latest RPG character whom I adored so I have hard time being objective when judging her. But I do like her this time, sharp and independent-minded as ever.

Blind Guardian - seems utterly confused. Dear BG, I believe Ozban was being sarcastic when he suggested lynching the gifted (if you were too and I missed that, apologies!) Anyway, I've never played with her before, so I'm observing with care and hesitant to vote her toDay - especially as I gather it would be rather unsportsmanlike.

Skip Spence - doesn't give any vibes one way or another. Clearly the Swedes feel safe around their reindeer.

Mänwe - looking forward to seeing him post! It has been ages since he last played.

Valier - starting to understand why I named her Bias of Priene of all philosophers when I was told to assign Greek philosophers for everybody. :p Seems like the normal Valier, looking forward to seeing the famous gut-feelings kick-in full power, haha.

Legate of Amon Lanc - seems like his normal self which - as I learned last game if not earlier - means absolutely nothing. Keeping my eye on him, although not too optimistic about the detecting capability.

Aganzir - is all over the place again. Yes, she could be the cobbler. Yes, she could be anything else. And yes, she totally loves the attention she's getting. So, until she says something that really indicates either guilt or innocence, I'm going to ignore her. (For the time being, that is.)

Ozban - never played with him but modded his first and latest game. Can't tell much from what he's posting yet. Doesn't at least drastically differ from his first game ordo self.

Caílin - I'm very happy she plays after such a long time. Yay! Meaning I won't vote her toDay but I'll keep an eye on her because I naturally tend to suspect her as much as I suspect her fiance.

Kath - also happy to see her playing. We haven't played in the same game for a while! This makes me slightly disinclined to vote her toDay. Haven't seen anything very suspicious about her yet.


edit: xed with everyone

[Boromir88]

Boro, I think I'm just tired of seeing the same conversations every Day 1. If something new had been brought up fine, but that wasn't the case, it was the same old stuff about roles we're all familiar with. Yeah, I get that we need to start discussion somewhere (and no I can't think of really anything else to talk about at the beginning), but I felt it was continuing for a bit too long, when there was now actual people to talk about. And honestly, telling the Seer to not be too obvious with their hints, and to make sure to reveal if they have important information, is insulting their intelligence, and stating that we should keep an eye out for Cobbler hints is sort of obvious, and doesn't warrant so much talk.

But moving on...


Fairy nuff. I can see the annoyance of going through the motions and doing the same old. And with this being pretty basic, I can see how there shouldn't be much to discuss about the seer and other gifteds. I get to wondering why if someone says "seer," we get reactions like the person just shouted "fire" in a theater.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

++Lottie

[Pitchwife]

Valier - starting to understand why I named her Bias of Priene of all philosophers when I was told to assign Greek philosophers for everybody.
So you're responsible for that part of the game? Please, if we have a say in the matter, it should be obvious that I'd like to be Diogenes the Cynic (the whole dog business, and the bit with the lamp that Zil found 'forced'.). I promise not to be indecent in public, though.:p

[Thinlómien]

I get to wondering why if someone says "seer," we get reactions like the person just shouted "fire" in a theater.Hehe, speaking of which, I thought I wanted to share the following story: recently, I accidentally distracted myself and the other players in a tabletop RPG because I twice heard "seer woman pale as snow" instead of "see a woman pale as snow" and thus wrote down an ancient riddle incorrectly. :eek: (After the game my friend who was the game master and who is not a 'downer told me I have played too much ww and she almost cracked up when I quoted the riddle to the other players. :D)

edit: xed with Shasta and Pitch

[wilwarin538]

So I don't like Cupcake's massive post. The main reason for this will not be stated, for hopefully obvious reasons.

Other reasons:

Kit is bizarre and (un)reasonable

Why? Quotes would be helpful.

Aaaaand the most damaging point against Skip is brought up first in Mac’s #35. If the seer only suspects wolves (or, for that matter, only vindicates innocents), they become an instant target for the wolves.

I think you're mis-representing him. That isn't what he said, he wants the Seer to not focus strongly on one person, unless they have dreamt them. I think this one has already been pointed out, but in the past we lynched an innocent because the Seer had focused on them in such a way that it looked like they had dreamt them guilty (when they obviously hadn't).

The fact that this post doesn't include quotes or post numbers makes it really hard to figure out what Sally was looking at when she came to these various conclusions. And then there's that thing she said that I strongly dislike.

x'ed since Lommy's list

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Looks to me like a whole lot of over-analysis!

Getting somewhat wolvish vibes from Nessa, Skip and Loslote; I always want to kill Kitanna, Greenie, Lommy and Kath and nothing's changed on that count, though traditional feelings are rarely valid in any given game. :p

[Pitchwife]

++Lottie
*ping*
And here comes the alternative bandwagon, right?

[Thinlómien]

So you're responsible for that part of the game? Please, if we have a say in the matter, it should be obvious that I'd like to be Diogenes the Cynic (the whole dog business, and the bit with the lamp that Zil found 'forced'.). I promise not to be indecent in public, though.I believe I actually gave you the honour of being Socrates. ;)

And before I raise more suspicion with my dubious statements: Agan, Legate and I were assisting Nogrod in giving out the roles by assigning Greek philosophers from Greek philosopher playing cards to all players so that Nogrod could later (obviously when we were not present anymore!) randomise the roles with the assistance of those cards. And no, I don't remember which philosophers we assigned to which people (except a few), maybe Nog will share them after the game. And as a further disclaimer, the philosophers will - or so Nog told us - play no further part in this game or narrations, so I'm not spoiling you of anything or know anymore than you do.


edit: xed with everyone again

[satansaloser2005]

Kit is bizarre because she is. I didn't say it was a bad thing, after all. Just strange.


And I reference post numbers, but alas can't make with the linky when I'm typing in Word and have no net to do stuff with, sorry. Posts are responded to in chronological order however.


I have to go. I'll be late getting back to work. >.<

[Pitchwife]

I believe I actually gave you the honour of being Socrates. ;)
Well, according to Plato, Diogenes was like Socrates gone mad, so I'll be content.:D

[Nogrod]

as a further disclaimer, the philosophers will - or so Nog told us - play no further part in this game or narrations, so I'm not spoiling you of anything or know anymore than you do.That's correct. I happen to have those funny "Greek thinkers" -playing cards and wished to do the lottery of roles with them, but gave the task of assigning the cards to you players to Lommy, Greenie, Aganzir and Legate (who were at my place over the New Year) while I was myself busy in the kitchen.

I can post their choices in the admin thread after the Day is over so you can see how they saw you... :D

But as said, those have nothing to do with your roles in this game or the narrations to that matter - but were only lottery-devices. Some of those philosophers might appear somewhere in the narrations, but there will be no link whatsoever to the player assigned that card in the lottery.

[wilwarin538]

Kit is bizarre because she is. I didn't say it was a bad thing, after all. Just strange.


And I reference post numbers, but alas can't make with the linky when I'm typing in Word and have no net to do stuff with, sorry. Posts are responded to in chronological order however.



Okee.....and yeah, I can tell that they're chronological, but in order to figure out what posts you're talking about, one would have to have two windows open and then one would then have to re-read everything....and one is too lazy to do so, so I'll just focus on the things you say that I know for sure which posts you're referring too (which are a fair amount of them).

With that said, I think Sally is at the top of my list. With the incorrect representation of what Skip said about the Seer, and the fact that she seems to be a bit all over the place with dislikes and likes, either by going from liking someone to not, or some are just a "yay, this person is shiny" or "no, I don't like this", without really giving any reasons. I know all that is a bit superficial, and on it's own I wouldn't likely suspect her, but that isn't all I have against her....so yeah, I'm really suspecting her right now.

But I will wait a bit longer, and maybe skim back through a bit. But I really think I'm going to go with Sally toDay.

x'ed since the post I quoted

[Boromir88]

As I see two people have of late entertained the idea of voting Manwë let me re-state what I said in the admin thread yesterday: That I think is only fair as he notified us of his situation like three weeks ago.

Duly noted Sire Nogmod and something I completely missed. I think I should also tell you before Day 1 started, when I got up in the morning I checked the time stamp and thought Day had already been going on for over 2 hours but there were no posts. I honestly started writing a post reeming everyone out as to how there could not be any posts yet. But thinking with how many people are here, I surely could not have been the first one to post with it already being 2+ hours into the Day. Then double-checked and saw the "Night 1," not "Day 1." and then felt really really silly.

With your Bororadar being brokey Lommy, I had to admit to being in a most unusual mood and manner of posting, last time. I wouldn't say your radar was broken, it was more me being brokey. Without having the time to play in the way I like to play, I saw your reaction to my Day 1 vote of you as a big time over-reaction and thought you felt threatened. I can't make anything clear out of Lommy's spurt of posting, but I do prefer this WWing Lommy much better than distracted Lommy. :D

Not sure about a vote here...Eomer and Greenie, I typically take notice of early on, but they've been very low key so far. They usually aren't the chatty posters, but still get involved and in the action early on. Same can be said about Inzil who I realized has as many posts as me, but the only thing I can recall about him is the dream and eating his pillow...

++Inzil

[wilwarin538]

Let's get a vote count on this page:

Cailin -> Agan
Kitanna -> Pitch
Legate -> Lottie
Rikae -> Wilwa
Inzil -> Nessa
Shasta -> Lottie (2)
Boro -> Inzil

[Nogrod]

40 minutes before the deadline, the votes are...

Cailín -> Aganzir
Kitanna -> Pitchie
Legate -> Lottie
Rikae -> wilwa
Zil -> Nessa
Shasta -> Lottie2
Boro -> Zil


EDIT: Heh, what a nice coincidence...

[satansaloser2005]

I think it's pretty interesting that Rikae flips on Pitch and it's good, but when I do it it's clearly evil. Who am I allowed to suspect then? Anyone?

Sorry. Just cranky because I have a teeny screen which makes it really hard to do much of anything, let alone make shiny links. Besides, I have some works to do. Thus....

++Pitch

For shiftiness and wanting (on my part) to not just vote for one of the people who is attacking me. After all, they can't all be evil. Can they? :eek:


I'm off for the Day. I'll try to re-link that long post when I have webs to do so.


Edit: x'd since Vanilwa's 123. Oh, and I'm also voting Pitch because he's my favorite of the people who have been voted so far. Just sayin'.

[Ozban]

As the air grows gravely stinky
this may seem like out of blue
I ask advice of my pinky:
'cause I know not half of you
"I shall not vote Agan kinky."
and the end is nearly due.

++Nessa Telrunya

X'd a lot

[wilwarin538]

Hmm, I don't think I'm going to change my mind, so I'll just do this now so we don't get all the votes at the same time:

++ Sallycakes

For previously (mostly) stated reasons. Just don't think you have the village's best interest in mind.

x'ed since Nog (my vote count is prettier than yours :p ), and so much for votes not coming in at the same time...

[Kath]

Agan sticks to a point once she's made it. I agreed with her about the Seer and I don't think talking about it is a problem. You've got to think about it. I do find what she says about Nessa to be a bit odd. She says looking at the maths could be seen as wolvish yet she did the same thing in that very post.

Shasta wants to suspect Pitch but thinks thats 'Lottie' reasoning. Forgive me, it's been a while. Is this a bad thing? It's Day 1, you can't have that much reasoning. Says he has no read on Rikae and sally which faintly worries him.

Someone said Lottie didn't really seem to have suspicions. She does have worries about sally, Mac (ish) and while she can see the potential suspicion of Pitch she doesn't want to focus on it as it's based on what others said. On the other hand, she exonerates a fair number of people: Agan, Kitanna, skip and Shasta. With as much reasoning as can be had this early!

Boro says he doesn't see the reasons behind suspecting Pitch. First one so far. :D

Kitanna doesn't like Pitch's 'polite' game or Rikae or sally.

Blind Guardian says she suspects Ozban for a comment about Shasta. Fairly sure that was based on an unfortunate Day 1 bandwagon in a previous game and was intended as a joke.

Inzil suspects Pitch as well for his first post feeling 'forced'. Given the rest of the reasoning that's come up this is a bit shoddy. Suggests Cailin could be a cobbler but is more likely just limited by RL.

Mac says it's unlikely for there really to be that many hints flying about. I actually agree. With all the wolves alive they don't really care about the Cobbler. And currently the Cobbler hasn't more knowledge of the wolves than we do. So hinting is going to be pretty limited at the moment.

Nessa defends Pitch and suggests Rikae knows something we don't. Weird half hint at Rikae being Gited there, especially as that's pretty much just how Rikae is!

Rikae says due to the reactions that have gone on that she's pretty ok with Pitch and less so with Inzil and Lottie. I can see what she means about Inzil, not so convinced about Lottie.

Mac thinks Agan is the cobbler because she was the first to mention it and did so very early on.

Ozban says Inzil is unreadable and finds that worrying. Why specifically Inzil? Also questions Nessa for suggesting Rikae might be Gifted.

Legate thinks Lottie might be the cobbler. Fair reasoning behind it but it is the kind of reasoning that can also be explained as 'Day 1 confusion'.

elronds-daughter arrives and agrees that Pitch is suspicious based on a quick read through of the thread, yet requires more time to think on Agan or Legate/Lottie. Hmm.

Greenie finds Agan suspicious. Thinks the way Nessa defended Pitch was odd, which I agree with.

Agan has some interesting suspicions about Mac and skip. Says she might vote for them or for quiet players. Do I count toDay Agan? :D

Shasta thinks Mac was making too much out of Agan's post. I kind of agree as I'm not finding Agan that suspicious. Likes Legate due to what he writes about Lottie. Again, the reasoning for Lottie does look pretty odd to me as I've not played recently but hey if everyone else is finding it odd maybe it's just me.

wilwa starts off with complaining that we haven't talked enough, but then complains that we've talked about things we don't need to talk about. Huh. Which is it? Talk about nothing or talk about something at least! Exonerates Pitch and mentions potential suspicion of Agan. Basically just one weird post.

Ha, Rikae agrees with me about wilwa. Is this a first? :D

Ozban is suspicious of sally and Agan a little as well. Wants to hear more from sally. Doesn't everyone?

Valier doesn't think Pitch suspicious, but worries about Rikae because she did suspect Pitch and then voted otherwise. Rikae did follow through and explain her change of mind though.

Pitch has a fair point that while people kept talking about it being vital to catch wolves there seems to have been some strange consensus to focus more on the Cobbler. If Agan is evil then well done her for that!

Ha, sally, if it helps 'disgusting' is Lommy's favourite word. She's pretty worried about skip for seeming to try and muffle the Seer.

Valier is on wilwa's side about leaving the Seer alone to get on with it. Fair enough, I just don't see the problem with throwing out possibilities whether they've thought of them already or not.

Votes:
Kitanna --> Pitch (for trying to look helpful but not being)
Legate --> Lottie (as a suspected cobbler)
Rikae --> wilwa (evil masquerading as innocent)
Inzil --> Nessa (for trying to look helpful)
Shasta --> Lottie (for Legate's reasons)

Back in a few with thoughts and a vote.

[Kath]

Oh and cross-posted since the end of page 3.

[Pitchwife]

Oh well, I think I'll leave Mac be for now and give him a chance to focus on something else than Agan and cobblers.

++Nessa
For mathematical pseudo-helpfulness and attempted Seer-outing.

EDIT: x-ed with a double-Kath

[Kath]

Wow, there are a LOT of people in this game. Well, I'm going to give a free pass to anyone I haven't played with before (or don't recall playing with - please don't get mad if I've forgotten. Boro will back me up on my awful memory) because it would be nice to actually see them play! So that is: elronds-daughter, Nessa and Ozban. Also obviously not Manwe as we know he's not around. And not Blind Guardian 'cause she always gets lynched. Also Cailin as we know she can't be here much toDay.

Which leaves many still, most of whom I have no idea about. So, here we are:

Leaning guilty:
Inzil - faintly shoddy reasoning against Pitch compared to everyone else and he came to it late.
Legate - well I don't get the Lottie thing. If this was further explained this suspicion may abate.
wilwa - well, she was very defensive.

Other:
Eomer
Mac
Shasta
Lottie
Kitanna
Pitch
sally
Rikae
Boro
Greenie
skip
Valier
Lommy
Agan

Will post this, catch up on the votes and then vote myself. (As in, I'll vote, not pull a Nilp.)

[wilwarin538]

wilwa starts off with complaining that we haven't talked enough

Woah, I never said that, I said people shouldn't have still been talking about the roles, I never said people weren't talking enough.

And this Nessa thing isn't sitting well with me. I sorta get the reasons, but they are rather flimsy (math might be an awful subject, but I don't think math = evil, and the Rikae thing, we're calling that "attempted Seer-outing", really?).

x'ed with Kath, defensive because people didn't like me agreeing with them, I think it was warranted

[Kath]

Cailín -> Aganzir
Kitanna -> Pitchie
Legate -> Lottie
Rikae -> wilwa
Zil -> Nessa
Shasta -> Lottie2
Boro -> Zil
sally -> Pitch2
Ozban -> Nessa2
wilwa -> sally
Pitch -> Nessa3

Well I've said I won't vote Nessa and I'll stick with that, though I can certainly see why people are finding her suspicious.

My vote goes to:

++INZIL

And that's it from me.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Day One reasoning is, and ought to be, the slave of the passions.

[Loslote]

I know I said I would be around two hours before DL. ...sorry about that.

Anyway, I don't have much time to go over the posts (I'm watching a Chem lecture at the same time :eek:) but from a quick once-over, Sally still worries me, and Valier, though I have not played with her before, strikes me as not very innocent. I'll probably vote for Sally - unless it looks like I'll die, in which case I might vote Nessa, because the points against her are about as good as you can get on Day 1.

EDIT: xed since Vanilwuffin

[Kath]

I have to agree, when I was reading through I was really surprised, I mean I know there isn't much more to talk about on Day 1, but still.
Oops sorry wilwa you are right. I misread the above comment as 'I was really surprised there isn't much more talk on Day 1'.

[Valier]

just curious Lottie what is it that makes me look not so innocent?
I'm leaning towards Inzil myself...something doesn't seem right....

[Valier]

well no reason to wait...

++Inzil

Just don't like his Nessa vote because of her math, I didn't find her overly suspicious and I just get this itching feeling that he may well be a baddie (crosses fingers)

[Thinlómien]

Won't vote
Mac
Kit
Rikae
Boro
BG
Manwe
Valier
Cailín
Kath
Greenie
Zil

Mac, Kit, Rikae, Manwe, Valier, Cailín and Kath haven't played for a while, so I'd feel cruel to lynch them on Day1 with no good reasons. BG should not be lynched on Day1 if it always happened before. Boro, Green and Zil strike me as innocent for now.


Could vote
Eomer
Elra
Shasta
Lottie
Wilwa
Nessa
Pitch
Sally
Skip
Legate
Agan
Ozban

That's still quite a long list. Nessa, Sally and Shasta strike me as most fishy out of these, then Wilwa, Elra and Lottie. Skip, Agan, Legate, Eomer and Ozban are quite unclear to me. Pitch is an enigma leaning innocent.

edit: xed with W's #134 and onwards

[wilwarin538]

Aren't there still over a dozen people left to vote? There are less than 15 minutes left...

This is going to be a mess I think, that many people should not all vote at the same time, it's going to get confusing, and that rarely does anything good.

x'ed with Valier and Lommy

[Loslote]

just curious Lottie what is it that makes me look not so innocent?

Mostly this:

I'm going to go back and have a read...I promised myself after not playing ww for awhile I will do everything I can to help this village rid itself of these baddies...so lets go have a look.

It caught my eye and made me go 'huh'. That's ususally how I get my knee-jerk reactions. :p So, yeah, hardly proof of your guilt or anything. Just basic Lottie Day 1 reaction.

EDIT: xed since the post I quoted

[Thinlómien]

Cailín -> Aganzir
Kitanna -> Pitchie
Legate -> Lottie
Rikae -> wilwa
Zil -> Nessa
Shasta -> Lottie2
Boro -> Zil
Sally -> Pitch 2
Ozzy -> Nessa 2
Wilwa -> Sally
Pitch -> Nessa 3
Kath -> Zil 2
Val -> Zil 3

Zil & Nessa 3, Pitch & Lottie 2, Agan & Wilwa & Sally 1.

[skip spence]

Alright then, trying to catch up again.

I've a feeling I'm getting unduly influenced by Lommy for making that list but since I'm pressed for time she at least is off the hook.

Clearly the Swedes feel safe around their reindeer.
Hehe, funny but not quite true. Almost hit one at 70 km/h just a few days back.

Will go for one of the people with votes. When is DL, in 10 min? :eek:

[Valier]

I understand your reasoning Lottie. I have played many a ww game and always thought of myself as a little bit of a slacker when it came to reading posts carefully, so this time around I thought I would try to pay more attention and be more helpful....but as it seems I am back to my old frothy ways:p

[Nessa Telrunya]

Oh wow, my Rikae post has been completely misinterpreted. :eek: The seer reveal has already been discussed as unhelpful to the village, has it not? My hint was that if she knows something we don't, it's suspicious. After all, the wolves all know something we don't: who to kill.

She got quite jumpy after being called out, and hastily backtracked, which seems really strange to me, not to mention how much discussion and sidetracking has resulted from her first post about Pitch. Perfect opportunity for a wolf.

I'm not sure what to think about the whole Legate as a cobbler scenario, but I'm really weirded out by how sally's absence was interpreted.

So, I suppose I'll just vote who I see the most against.

++Rikae

Sorry for being so close to the DL!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well, I'd rather let Inzi live. Nessa looks a bit funny to me, so...

++NESSA

[Thinlómien]

Something feels wrong with the Nessa-wagon, but I like the Zil-wagon even less as I'd be inclined to think him innocent. Ergo, would vote Nessa over Zil but prefer someone else, possibly Sally although I like her latest post. ;) ps. yes DL is in 10 min.

edit: xed with several

[Aganzir]

Sorry it took me way longer than planned.

Yes we all know how to use brains (sometimes I question the sanity of Lommy's
:D

The point is that the cobbler could easily suggest themself toNight and basically give the wolves their identity. Of course they run the risk of being killed *cough* Boro *cough* but if it works it could pay off big time. And yeah, I know, I’ve probably given the cobbler ideas, but I think a clever cobbler would think of it anyway. I think it could be a serious problem for us if the cobbler is able to identify themself to the wolves, so if we catch the cobbler, I’d be more than happy to kill them (or at the very least have them hunted). Of course wolves must be our first priority but if the wolves know their cobbler and one of them is in danger, they could easily sacrifice their cobbler in order to keep their double kills. I don’t want a cobbler-cide to happen. I want to kill wolves. Thus, let’s make sure that, if the cobbler is killed, the village is the one doing it, and not the wolves, so the baddies can’t use the cobbler’s death to their advantage.
No. It won't work - unless the Cobbler says it in the thread. So if the wolves get sally's name tonight, they can go back and realise "Hey, she said this!" I really really really don't like this point.

As the air grows gravely stinky
this may seem like out of blue
I ask advice of my pinky:
'cause I know not half of you
"I shall not vote Agan kinky."
and the end is nearly due.
:D:D
(I totally cracked up.)

Seriously I've only skimmed through the thread, I'll comment on everything if I'm still alive tomorrow. I pretty much exhausted myself last time I played so I decided to take it easier this time, but I wasn't planning to post this little. I'll probably vote for sally because her point about the cobbler reeks evil.

[skip spence]

++Sally

Just got this icky feeling about her misrepresenting my words. That's the best I've got now.

[elronds_daughter]

++ Pitch

Sorry for cutting it so close. And I sincerely hope I'm not wrong...this feels like a shot in the dark...

[Thinlómien]

Oops thought Skip's post was by Sally. Means I think better of Skip, not of Sally.

edit xed with all

[Loslote]

++Sally Cake

Sorry, dear, but you're the best hunch I've got. :(

I haven't looked at Zil and he hasn't caught my notice. I don't really want to see him lynched, but I don't have any ideas of what his allignment is, so I'm not going to argue against it very much.

EDIT: xed since Eomer

[Nogrod]

Reminder: in a case of a tie the one who gets the highest votes the last dies.

[Thinlómien]

++Sally

since now that might even work out.


edit: xed with Lottie and ModPhilosopher

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Something feels wrong with the Nessa-wagon, but I like the Zil-wagon even less as I'd be inclined to think him innocent. Ergo, would vote Nessa over Zil but prefer someone else, possibly Sally although I like her latest post. ;) ps. yes DL is in 10 min.

edit: xed with several

Hey, I didn't bother covering my tracks. You think it'll make you look better? :p

[Thinlómien]

Given all the sudden suspicion, I'm having a bad feeling Sally might be innocent after all... I mean Lottie too joining the front and probably all of us xing a lot it just seems too much.

edit: xed with Eomer who has a good time to banter!!!
edit2: my bad, only now realised he voted already

[Aganzir]

++sally

Cailín -> Aganzir
Kitanna -> Pitchie
Legate -> Lottie
Rikae -> wilwa
Zil -> Nessa
Shasta -> Lottie2
Boro -> Zil
Sally -> Pitch 2
Ozzy -> Nessa 2
Wilwa -> Sally
Pitch -> Nessa 3
Kath -> Zil 2
Val -> Zil 3
Nessa - Rikae
Eomer - Nessa 4
skip - sally 2
ed - Pitch 3
Lottie - sally 3
Lommy - sally 4
Agan - sally 5

edit: xed since Lommy & corrected the tally

[wilwarin538]

No. It won't work - unless the Cobbler says it in the thread. So if the wolves get sally's name tonight, they can go back and realise "Hey, she said this!" I really really really don't like this point.


I really really don't like that you just drew attention to this (the reason I voted Sally). I was seriously hoping the length of Sally's post would stop people from noticing this, but now that you mentioned it again (and underlined it!), I'm sure the wolves and Cobbler will have seen it. If they hadn't come up with the idea themselves (which despite what Sally seemed to think, they may not have thought of it), now they have. It was not in the village's best interest to draw attention to this idea.

x'ed with a bunches

[Loslote]

Wow. I did not see that coming.

[Aganzir]

I really really don't like that you just drew attention to this (the reason I voted Sally). I was seriously hoping the length of Sally's post would stop people from noticing this, but now that you mentioned it again (and underlined it!), I'm sure the wolves and Cobbler will have seen it. If they hadn't come up with the idea themselves (which despite what Sally seemed to think, they may not have thought of it), now they have. It was not in the village's best interest to draw attention to this idea.
They saw it regardless of whether I mentioned it again or not. If sally is innocent, she shouldn't have said it in the first place.

[Nogrod]

DL.

Sally will be dead in a moment...

[Nogrod]

"So, Sally got the most votes. What should we do now?" Aganzir asked.

"Pass me the hemlock" Sally said wryly.

"Are you an innocent or not?" asked the Blind Guardian confused.

"Of course I am, now get on with the poison. No muffins this time." Sally said defiantly.

"But hey, if you’re innocent, couldn’t we make a new vote? Let’s not kill an innocent!" Pitchwife gasped.

"Listen. We have decided that we should pick the one to die by a democratic vote. I accepted the terms as did you all others – so how could I try to shy away from a principle I had earlier accepted? I wouldn’t be calling for a re-vote if someone else had been chosen, so I can’t allow it in case I am picked myself. Is it that so hard to figure?" Sally answered grinning almost amusedly.

"But the consequences will be disasterous if we go on killing innocents!" yelled Nessa, "Look at the numbers!"

Sally took a deep breath. "Well how do you go picking another target? If I avoid the sentence, then I effectively turn it on someone else who might be just as innocent as I am. So wouldn’t I have wronged then? It is better to suffer wrong than to do wrong; it is not so important to live, but to live righteously. And to live righteously is to live under the principles of truth, goodness and beauty, right? And turning away from those principles, or doing outright wrong for personal gain, can not be righteous in any case, now can it?"

There was silence…


~*~

… which was broken by Melkor’s booming voice.


“So the stubborn one is the chosen one then? It is a pleasure to start with those strong in faith…”

“You don’t scare me Melkor. You’re just an imperfect and twisted copy of the Real – like all your “creation” are imperfect and twisted copies of the Real Creation! I’m more than happy to leave this cave of illusion behind me.” Sally called back standing straight.

“Tell me Satansaloser, are you just having hard times hearing things or do you have problems with the comprehension? You’re not going anywhere – nor are you staying. You are going to vanish, you are going to not-be.” Melkor grinned wide.

“You can do whatever you wish to my material form, but my soul is created by Iluvatar himself and is not for you to decide on. My soul will leave this cave and return to the cosmos – and what would be more delightful than being able to leave this dungeon and join the eternal joy and harmony of Being so lacking in this mockery of mere existence you have managed to put up here?”

“And feisty you are? As you wish, loser.”

Sally’s clothes took an instant fire and just lighted off and what was left from under them was nothing – but small heaps of dust and ashes on the floor of the dungeon where she had just stood.

“Whatever your creation, that is what you are now!” Melkor bellowed.

Slowly the two heaps started glowing and withering little by little. The horrified Maiar looked on as the heaps grew smaller and smaller finally vanishing with a puff. There was a thin line of bluish smoke that lingered for a short moment above where the heaps had been, but it did not go anywhere, but rather just dissolved into the air. There was a horrendous cry in the air and then it was all black and quiet.

Sally was the first innocent loser of the experiment.

The living:

Eomer of the Rohirrim - An associate of Ossë, speciality: lochs and ponds, great alliance with frogs
elronds_daughter - A spirit of no-nonsense
Macalaure - Carmótar, the Maia of housework
Shastanis Althreduin - A spirit of water
Loslote - A spirit of sunshine and rainbows
Kitanna - A spirit of all things unimaginative
wilwarin538 - Belongs to Vána, cares for all the small garden dwelling, winged creatures
Nessa Telrunya - The patron of town criers across the world
Pitchwife - Tender of Oromë's dogs
Inziladun - A vassal of Námo, serving as a warden in Mandos
Rikae - A spirit in charge of silicon & static electricity
Boromir88 - A Maia of Mandos, the interpretter of dreams
A Little Green - A spirit in charge of aliens, hummingbirds and farming
Blind Guardian -A spirit of evil ways
Skip Spence - A follower of Aule with an avid interest in behavioural sciences
Mänwe - A spirit of short acquintances
Valier - A handmaiden of Yavanna, collecting the morning dew from the petals of flowers
Legate of Amon Lanc - A Maia associated with the unfathomed depths of the world's seas but also with the waters surrounding Arda in the outer space...
Thinlómien - A maia who lives in Lórien and paints the dreams of those sleeping there
Aganzir - Aka. Firebeck, a spirit of fire
Ozban - Yavanna's underling with inferiority complex. Caretaker of undergrowth and small bushes in general, especially blackberries
Caílin - A spirit of secrecy
Kath - A spirit of nostalgy

The dead:

Satansaloser2005 - (Innocent) A spirit of ducks, muffins and cookies; reduced to ashes and dust on D1

Night 2 has fallen.


Gifteds and baddies, your turn. The rest is silence.


Day2 starts normally in 24 hours (23 hours and 42 minutes to be more exact)

[Nogrod]

Eä Herald - Narvinyë 15, 7th age

We hope our readers have been enjoying our coverage of those astonishing events from the times immemorial thus far. All that you have seen or heard have been found in the latest archeological excavations into Utumno’s yet unexplored depths. Professor Nogrod, who has been leading the team of experts in the excavations, will now enlighten us about the records and their background.

Well, as horrendous the events were, luckily to the posterity Melkor appointed a few of his servants to record all of the experiment and – I guess because of his vanity – also the music he made with Sauron and other twisted spirits. But it is clear that what he really needed to record were the discussions the doomed Maiar went through during the following years as he was often busy elsewhere. That way he could listen to them afterwards to make his own deductions concerning how to rule and exploit the forthcoming hordes of mortal beings. In modern terms one could name his work as a kind of existentialist socio-psychological experiment of the functionalistic school of sociology.

So what you have been reading of late are transcriptions of the original tapes form the first decades of the experiment. We would have wished to publish the actual recordings but sadly because of the pending copyright issues - mainly regarding the estates of the deceased - the Eä Herald was understandably not willing to take the risk.

If the years confuse you, it should be told that Melkor had decided twenty years would be a long enough an interval for both talking and sleeping. Less than that might keep the Maiar too defiant and more than that could run the risk of ending up prematurely without giving any readable results.

Let us now join the experiment and fly to year 4560 Valian time to hear how the second “Day” of the experiment started.


~*~

The trapped Maiar woke up from their spellbound sleep when Melkor released them entering the dungeon. He didn’t seem to be in a good mood. Some even heard him hissing to himself something about a “sickening sickle” and “hating Varda”. But coming amidst the Maiar he collected himself and almost smiled.

“I have been listening to your discussions – and I do remember what Sally said before she ceased to be. And I do think I have to correct you on a few points.

You’re right with pointing out the difference concerning mere existence and the Actual Being which is eternal. Plato had it correct when he said there are two non-overlapping magistrates: the faulty and fleeting realm of physicality and the realm of eternal forms. But you’re wrong in following his implicit assumption that all real knowledge, the logos, needs to have an eternal form as it’s object to be called Truth, or in your further suggestion that the being of an eternal Truth could question the existence of contingent things. For there is an eternal Truth on fleeting physical and mortal existence. That is, that the physical and mortal existence is doomed to wane and finally die and cease to exist. That holds to all physical existence whenever and wherever it appears, always, eternally, ad infinitum.

Also I find it interesting you manage to make such categorical mistakes as taking the kelvar and olvar – or sentinent creatures if you prefer that expression – as a disproof of what I told you. Yes, the kelvar and olvar are created as sentinent entities; some of them, like the Oromë’s hounds or Aulë’s dwarves have a lot of self-awareness, and some, like Yavanna’s trees in the forest or the algae of the seas have less of it. They were created to born, live and wither away to give room for new life, like you say. But you forget, that their senses and self-awareness are physical in nature, they are not eternal Beings and you should know that. And exactly because they are only physical creatures, they are to suffer all the physical processes like mortal wounds, diseases, ageing and finally dying. Nothing that is physical is eternal. That is an eternal Truth for you.

So you seem to forget now the essential qualitative difference between Yavanna’s trees and Oromë’s hounds in relation to eternal Beings like you yourselves used to be… for didn’t you have a soul none of those mortal things have? That was the eternal you. If something bad was to happen to the physical form you had taken when coming into this world, your soul would have just travelled outside the created time and space to the Outside to rekindle the light of life in you, leaving the broken physicality behind you. But not anymore! What my music did was to tie your souls into your physical existence so that it cannot anymore leave the body, but will share its fate! And there is no conceptual contradiction involved, even if some of you might be willing to try that conclusion. Eternal beings are still eternal and finite beings are still finite. Everything is eternally like it has to be. The only thing that is different now is that you don’t belong to the former category anymore…

To spell it out with a parable: cubes are one kind of things and balls are another kind of things – and there are eternal Truths concerning both cubes and balls as to what they are, now and to eternity. But a particular cube can be turned into a particular ball by a skilled artisan. Cubes are still cubes and balls are still balls, but the particular cube of our example is no more a cube but a ball.”

Melkor paused for a moment… like he was trying to remember something he still had in mind.

“Oh, yes” he grinned now widely.

“It’s actually quite interesting to see how the condition of mortality dims some wits already, this soon, as I think I heard someone saying that “the true damnation lies in immortality”! So you are already calling Eru Ilúvatar the foundation of the true damnation? How easy will it be to lead the lesser mortals to my side if you crack in mere twenty years that badly? This experiment seems to produce much greater results I could have ever dreamt of beforehand…

Anyway. I see you have lost two of your companions. You have twenty years to find the culprits and to reflect on your sorry state. So have a nice Day!”

With that Melkor vanished.


It was only now the Maiar started looking around them. They soon realized that Kath and Ozban were not among them anymore.

“There!” Macalaure cried in anguish.

They rushed to the odd pile they saw on the floor to the side of the main hall of the dungeon. It looked like a heap of torn pieces of bodies – but they were oddly dry and shrinked in size, like they had turned instantly into thousands of years old mummies that had been broken.

“What new devilry is this?” Greenie wailed.

“They have ripped Kath and Ozban into pieces… How rude!” Manwë mumbled.

Elronds daughter reached to the pile with his finger. As soon as he touched it, the pile collapsed and vanished at the same time, leaving dust and ashes to slowly settle down to the floor.

“Now that is gross…” wilwa whispered.

“Let’s sing for their memory. We need something beautiful into this deep and dark place” Eomer suggested and started to sing with Cailín. The others joined the lamentation (http://nogrod.xanga.com/audio/c6b073952668/) and their voices filled the dark hall with sadness and beauty the caves had never witnessed.


The living:

Eomer of the Rohirrim - An associate of Ossë, speciality: lochs and ponds, great alliance with frogs
elronds_daughter - A spirit of no-nonsense
Macalaure - Carmótar, the Maia of housework
Shastanis Althreduin - A spirit of water
Loslote - A spirit of sunshine and rainbows
Kitanna - A spirit of all things unimaginative
wilwarin538 - Belongs to Vána, cares for all the small garden dwelling, winged creatures
Nessa Telrunya - The patron of town criers across the world
Pitchwife - Tender of Oromë's dogs
Inziladun - A vassal of Námo, serving as a warden in Mandos
Rikae - A spirit in charge of silicon & static electricity
Boromir88 - A Maia of Mandos, the interpretter of dreams
A Little Green - A spirit in charge of aliens, hummingbirds and farming
Blind Guardian -A spirit of evil ways
Skip Spence - A follower of Aule with an avid interest in behavioural sciences
Mänwe - A spirit of short acquintances
Valier - A handmaiden of Yavanna, collecting the morning dew from the petals of flowers
Legate of Amon Lanc - A Maia associated with the unfathomed depths of the world's seas but also with the waters surrounding Arda in the outer space...
Thinlómien - A maia who lives in Lórien and paints the dreams of those sleeping there
Aganzir - Aka. Firebeck, a spirit of fire
Caílin - A spirit of secrecy


The dead:

Satansaloser2005 - (Innocent) A spirit of ducks, muffins and cookies; reduced to ashes and dust on D1.
Ozban – (Innocent) Yavanna's underling with inferiority complex. Caretaker of undergrowth and small bushes in general, especially blackberries; ripped to pieces, dried and unintentionally pulverized on N2.
Kath – (Innocent) A spirit of nostalgy; ripped to pieces, dried and unintentionally pulverized on N2.

Day 2 has begun. Load your arguments and sharpen your assertions.

[Inziladun]

Interesting kill choices, I think. Kath, who voted for me, and Ozban, who followed my vote for Nessa. Why them?

[Valier]

could definately be the wolves trying to frame you Inzil....or a clever wolfish ruse by you, and ur fellows to draw attention away from you, since you had a few votes against you yesterday.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hey, now that was evil. Whoever had killed Ozban is going to respond to me.

Aside from that, let's see why those two have been killed. Zil had already suggested something about their votes, but since I haven't been around when the votes were cast, I need to go around through them to see myself. I am thinking, however, that those things like that somebody voted for somebody are in fact rather rarely reasons for killing somebody. Not by themselves. Yes, somebody might have been trying to frame Inzil by killing somebody who voted him, but the pack would have needed at least one more reason, I believe. Or at least I would have expected so. That said, the reason can very well be "because they were a quiet kill". In this game, though - especially with such amount of kills - I would expect the WWs to go straight for whomever they thought might be the Seer.

That's not to say that Zil's post didn't make me paranoid about him instantly, quite the opposite. Someone who starts the Day with first post saying "both the kills have something to do with me" is either insane or weird. Of course, it can be just stating the obvious of an Ordo who is just stating facts, and in fact, that's what innocents often do, as they have no calculativeness behind their statements. They often end up lynched for that as well. Nonetheless, paranoid it makes me, but I am not going to put any weight to it, just because of what I have said just now.

I recall there was some question some of you have asked me yesterDay when I wasn't present, I am going to seek it out and quote it and reply at the same time when I will try to check what else was there about Ozban and Kath. Will be back in a short while.

EDIT: x-ed with Valier

[Inziladun]

Someone who starts the Day with first post saying "both the kills have something to do with me" is either insane or weird.

Come, now. Can't I be both? ;)

There's other stuff that happened after I voted that invites scrutiny, mainly the Sally-wagon. What were you lot thinking? :rolleyes:

[Rikae]

That Sally-wagon does need a look. It's the sort of thing that has me saying "innocents couldn't possibly blunder so badly" but then again, if all my years of WW have taught me anything, it's that innocents always can.

Still would like to look closer, though.

Kath's death was a surprise to me, as I was starting to suspect her.

[wilwarin538]

What were you lot thinking? :rolleyes:

I think we had quite a good reason, she brought forward a suggestion that no innocent should ever bring up. The idea that the Cobbler could send in their own name and the wolves would then know who he is. When I first saw it I hoped that the large size of her post would maybe stop the Cobbler/Wolves from reading it too closely and getting the idea. But then Agan went and brought a lot of attention to it, guaranteeing that the baddies saw it (so the wolves may have assumed the name they received belongs to their Cobbler). We just need to hope the Cobbler didn't do it, and the Wolves have the wrong name.

Anyway, I can't come on much more tonight, and school starts for me tomorrow (and I have work immediately after school). I'll try to come back on again in a couple hours with more thoughts, and hopefully can pop on to vote tomorrow at school.

x'ed with Rikae

[Rikae]

Did she? I didn't even see that, but if she did, it's not as if it was her idea. Mac-cobbler did that in a game I think she was in as well as several others here. Hmm.

[Loslote]

That's not to say that Zil's post didn't make me paranoid about him instantly, quite the opposite. Someone who starts the Day with first post saying "both the kills have something to do with me" is either insane or weird.

Actually, I got a good feeling about him from it. As a wolf, I would expect Zil not to draw quite that much attention to that. As an innocent, it's something I could see him doing - I get more of a "that's interesting" (I'm envisioning that the way Jack Sparrow said it :p) type of feel than a "this must make me innocent" type of feel.

EDIT: xed with Rikae

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, I cannot really find anything Seer-ish looking about Kath, not at all - which is rather puzzling. I would really expect the WWs to go for the Seer and not just sit randomly around, when they have twice as big a chance to hit the Seer than usual. Same with Ozzy, unless somebody thought his verses refer to any dream-y nature of his or whatnot.

There is another connection, though, which Zil did not mention - Kath said specifically in one of her last posts that she certainly DOES NOT want to vote for Nessa (because she hasn't played with her before, simple as that - Nessa was in threat to be lynched at that point). But in any case that places her in the opposite basket to Ozzy. So in fact, I would put it this way: if the votes point to anybody, it is actually also Nessa, and maybe more than Inzil. The question is, though, how do they point at her, as in, what it means. I haven't found a good answer for that yet.

Of course, there is the possibility that either of the kills was suggested to the Wolves by the Cobbler. However, it would be a rather weird pick, in my opinion.

Personally, right now I would say that the point was the simplest one - a sort of no-trace kill, resp. a kill with a trace to somebody to frame: that's what I would expect. The question is (and that's to return to my unanswered question I raised above) if it was so, then who was to be framed and by whom, Nessa by Inzil, Inzil by Nessa, both by somebody, or nobody at all.

I don't have time or concentration enough for this now, however, so it will have to wait until after I sleep - several hours. Meanwhile, I think there might be quite a few posts.

And so, I add just the response to the questions from yesterDay:
Agan calls certain roles 'she' habitually - the one that comes to mind is the cobbler. I haven't noticed her calling the seer 'she' before, but it seems like an Aganish sort of thing to do.Now if we are speaking of Cobbler hints, THIS might be one.I'm not sure what you're saying here, Legate - that Lottie says Agan calling the cobbler 'she' is a cobbler-hint, or that Lottie is cobbler-hinting herself in this quote? If the latter, I'd say that's quite a stretch.
(As for the matter itself, I've noticed that Agan habitually calls all roles 'she' - obviously she doesn't hold with gender-neutral pronouns; so this is certainly not a cobbler-hint on her part.)
I agree, I don't know what Legate is getting at. Agan always refers to unknown people as a 'she', it's her way of protesting against our male-dominated society (at least, that's what I like to think she's doing). So no wolf looking at that would ever think it a Cobbler hint, it's just something she always does no matter what. And I don't see how what Lottie says could be a Cobbler hint. I'd like some clarification here on what he meant.
What I meant was that Lottie, of all the roles, mentioned the Cobbler in her post. It came out of the blue. It would have been sufficient to say "Agan always calls unknown roles she". If she calls all of them 'she' (which is, to my knowledge, also true, I am not disputing that at all), then why to say "one that comes to my mind is the cobbler"? Specifically mentioning a cobbler in such a random place might have been a Cobbler-hint, or Lottie-cobbler checking if Agan is a Wolf, or Lottie-Wolf checking if Agan is a cobbler... etc. Anyway, it was more like a remark, and the core of my suspicion was the latter part of my post. I would not have voted Lottie just because I'd think she's a Cobbler (which would've been in the first part a more likely outcome), I voted her because I thought she might be a Wolf.

Anyway, speaking of that, after her later posts yesterDay, I am not actually suspicious of Lottie much anymore now (though of course that's to see what she posts toDay).

So, later...

EDIT: x-ed since my last post

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Initial thoughts: Ozban is an interesting kill as players tend to leave those who haven't played for a while alive - unless there's a good reason. Definite Seer hint in there, eh? Eh?

I'd read less into Kath's death, because the urge to kill Kath is completely understandable at all times. :p (I will have a look at Kath, of course)

Ok, not sure why certain people today find the lynching of Sally an obvious blunder - we had no idea who to string up! I didn't vote for her, but I'm not going to just assume that evil folk were involved in her slaying. Can people explain what was so wrong about choosing Sally (without referring to hindsight, naturally).

Also, this Wilwa-Agan argument right at the end of the day confuses me. Need to re-read, and probably have people explain it to me again. Slowly.

[Loslote]

As for the Sally wagon, there was a lot of xing going on. For instance, at the time I voted, I thought only one other person had voted for her, and that a while ago. I also noticed a lot of people marking their cross posts, so it's possible that very few of us actually knew what we were doing. I don't think there was an intentional "let's all gand up and kill Sally" bandwagon, more of an "I'll vote Sally, and maybe other people will too, maybe not" bandwagon. If that makes any sense.

EDIT: xed with Skip

EDITEDIT: Legate's right; I crossed with Eomer, not Skip

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I think we had quite a good reason, she brought forward a suggestion that no innocent should ever bring up. The idea that the Cobbler could send in their own name and the wolves would then know who he is. When I first saw it I hoped that the large size of her post would maybe stop the Cobbler/Wolves from reading it too closely and getting the idea. But then Agan went and brought a lot of attention to it, guaranteeing that the baddies saw it (so the wolves may have assumed the name they received belongs to their Cobbler). We just need to hope the Cobbler didn't do it, and the Wolves have the wrong name.

Actually, and as Rikae had already said, this thing had been used by Cobblers in several games, I believe, or I think I remember being in more than one. It was in fact one thing that was on my mind since the start of Day 1 and I was just waiting who is going to say that. I was quite surprised when by the time I have been around people actually haven't started tossing the idea around, I might have hoped that nobody is going to mention it.

But that said, I can see the reason of voting sally because of that. However (and once again when I am fresh, I have to take a look at the bandwaggon for her, to see how big it actually was and who was there), I am inclined to believe that some WWs might have very likely mingled with the crowd there.

And totally random addition, Rikae creeps me out.

EDIT: x-ed since my last once again, and I would like to see what "skip" you crossed with, Lottie ;)

[Cailín]

Very interesting. Just read the entire thread. I thought Sally looked fairly innocent. Then again, she said she liked me and I am easily swayed by such things.

Looking at that particular bandwagon, Loslote looks shady: she planted suspicion against Sally from her very first post (based on a knee jerk reaction even though Sally really only said she could not contribute much) making it an easy vote with no substance at all.

I am not going to pretend that with so little evidence and with so many people I can already identify the wolves, so I am still very much in touchy-feely-guessy mode.

Right now, I have a good feeling about Legate, Lommy, Rikae and strangely enough about Inzil, though he seems somewhat paranoid. Reason tells me Boromir88, Eomer and Kitanna are innocent. Pure insanity tells me Aganzir probably is worth keeping alive as well.

The wolves are almost certainly A Little Green, Macalaure, Loslote and Nessa (confidence is key).

I hope this information will suffice for those interested in forming an opinion on my part in this plot or building a case against me. I will return later or tomorrow with something more substantial.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Initial thoughts: Ozban is an interesting kill as players tend to leave those who haven't played for a while alive - unless there's a good reason. Definite Seer hint in there, eh? Eh?
If you find that hint in Ozzy's post, I am going to give you a medal. (And then probably lynch you, since I can't see an innocent seeing a Seer see-saw see... something there.)

As for the Sally wagon, there was a lot of xing going on. For instance, at the time I voted, I thought only one other person had voted for her, and that a while ago. I also noticed a lot of people marking their cross posts, so it's possible that very few of us actually knew what we were doing. I don't think there was an intentional "let's all gand up and kill Sally" bandwagon, more of an "I'll vote Sally, and maybe other people will too, maybe not" bandwagon. If that makes any sense.

This actually makes a lot of sense to me (just hope that it is not so that all WWs voted for sally and x-posted at the same point, which would be terribly funny, but it's known to have happened at least twice in my last game) and also makes Lottie sound innocent.

But okay, now I am going to post this and if I haven't x-posted with anybody (or if I did but they said nothing of immediate interest to me), I will REALLY go to sleep!

EDIT: going ;) No offence to the concerned one, it was a good enough post, but not needing an immediate comment :)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Ok, I've read through all posts of Kath and Ozban.

Kath's posts could hardly look less like those of a Seer. She mentions everyone in vague terms, and in her last post she suspects three people for (admittedly soft)in-game reasons. She votes Inzi, but... no - I don't buy it. Strange kill. Maybe they simply feared her wolf-hunting powers.

Ozban did speak some verses; wolves don't like that kind of thing - it gives them the creeps. Makes them think a gifted's at work. He also votes for Nessa, not for any very obvious reason.

I had already been getting a wolvish feeling from Nessa yesterday (hence my vote).

[Blind Guardian]

HEY LOOK! I'M STILL ALIVE! IT'S A MIRACLE!

Anyways, I wasn't really here yesterday, so I have no clue what happened. But, bandwagoning Sally...I'll be back.

[Rikae]

My thoughts after looking over the last couple decades:

Kath's post number 38 says "ANWOLFWITS" in the margin. :D

Sally's mention of the previous game indeed explicitly referred to it, I see, and she went on about it, and the
possible disadvantages of mentioning it, at some length. Nonetheless, no one suspects her or mentions it for
quite a while, including Wilwa, who responds to Sally's post an hour later with banter, not suspicion. Lommy mentions
her soon after as "fishy" but doesn't give a reason. Twenty minutes later Wilwa has problems with Sally's post (number
116), but these are a lack of explanation on her Kitanna-comment and "mis-representing" Skip's point about the seer.
In number 123, Wilwa puts Sally at the top of her list for:

the incorrect representation of what Skip said about the Seer, and the fact that she seems to be a bit all over
the place with dislikes and likes, either by going from liking someone to not, or some are just a "yay, this
person is shiny" or "no, I don't like this", without really giving any reasons. I know all that is a bit
superficial, and on it's own I wouldn't likely suspect her, but that isn't all I have against her....so yeah,
I'm really suspecting her right now.

And in 129 she votes her with no further explanation.
For previously (mostly) stated reasons."

So, Wilwa not mentioning the fact that Sally mentioned the possible cobbler-hinting, lest the cobbler notice.
Looks very shiny toDay, but I wonder why she wouldn't do her best to get Sally lynched if she thought it was such a good case against her, in favor of trying to hide something already in the open. Hers was the first vote for Sally, after all.

While I'm rereading, I'd like to know what Nessa means when she
says of me:
She got quite jumpy after being called out, and
hastily backtracked, which seems really strange to me, not to mention how much discussion and sidetracking
has resulted from her first post about Pitch. Perfect opportunity for a wolf.

I don't believe I've played with you before, Nessa, but trust me, I was nothing of the sort ("jumpy" when "called out"), and if I wanted to
come up with a case against Pitch, I easily could. That suspicion was based on nothing more than an uneasy feeling, as I said, and mentioned solely to gauge reactions. One of the reactions I was looking for was one like yours.

Ok, so anyway, in 151 Skip votes for Sally based on an "icky feeling" about her "misrepresenting his words", which
could be taken directly from Wilwa. Seems a little contrived.

Lottie votes for Sally on a hunch, which is the best reason so far! It's also, of course, a piece of cake to hide behind.

Lommy votes for Sally since it "might work out", then has second thoughts two minutes later. Seems an innocentish
waffle to me, but I'm unsure of the reasons behind her vote at this point.

Wilwa chastises Agan for mentioning the cobbler hint thing, gives it as the reason she voted for Sally.
All of this doesn't ease my mind about Wilwa: were she a wolf, she could still have done what she did. Sally was
in no real danger when she voted for her, making her a safe choice even as a suspected cobbler for a wolf.

[Pitchwife]

Ozzy not only voted for Nessa, he actually started the suspicion against her by pointing at her remark about "Rikae knowing things", and she was pretty much the single constant person he suspected all Day. If Nessa's a wolf, I think they could have thought he was the Seer. He also said once or twice he wouldn't vote/suspect Legate, which they could have interpreted as Ozzy had dreamt him innocent.

And sorry, Nessa, I don't quite buy this:
Oh wow, my Rikae post has been completely misinterpreted. :eek: The seer reveal has already been discussed as unhelpful to the village, has it not? My hint was that if she knows something we don't, it's suspicious. After all, the wolves all know something we don't: who to kill.
Can't really explain why, but it just sounds like retcon damage control to me.

The problem with this is, for a Nessa Wolfrunya to think Rikae could be the Seer based on Rikae's remark about me, I'd have to be her packmate, which I'm not (although it would explain why she defended me against it), so this theory collapses in itself. She could, however, still be the cobbler erroneously thinking Rikae had spotted a Pitchwolf - in which case I'd say she's not the prime priority toDay, as we still need to get a wolf to reduce the Night-kills.

(x-ed with Rikae herself)

[Rikae]

You know (I mixed her up with Lottie - oops) I never said Nessa was suspicious. I didn't think she was. I was admonishing her for what looked like a newbie error - apparently it wasn't, and she found me suspicious for "knowing something", which makes... no sense at all.

[Rikae]

The problem with this is, for a Nessa Wolfrunya to think Rikae could be the Seer based on Rikae's remark about me, I'd have to be her packmate, which I'm not (although it would explain why she defended me against it), so this theory collapses in itself.

Assuming you're not.

It's also possible she was a wolf looking for an easy lynch, and thought that I, with my mysterious and creepy ways, would be an easy target.

:D

[Cailín]

Honestly though, why would a wolf be actively looking for an easy lynch? Far more sensible to just go with the flow and come up with a mildly credible explanation afterwards. Or baiting - and then passing it off as the smart ploy of an ordinary villager. Rikae?

I do agree Nessa looks fairly bad after Ozban's untimely end.

[Blind Guardian]

Honestly though, why would a wolf be actively looking for an easy lynch? Far more sensible to just go with the flow and come up with a mildly credible explanation afterwards. Or baiting - and then passing it off as the smart ploy of an ordinary villager. Rikae?

I do agree Nessa looks fairly bad after Ozban's untimely end.


Because last Night it was 20 against 4. 4/20=2/10=1/5 (don't lynch me for doing math!) For them not good odds and on Day 1 they might have thought that they could give a lousy excuse and get away with it. Well, that would be my reasoning.

[Pitchwife]

Just went through Kath's posts, nothing Seerish there in my eye. Her longest post #130 was basically a lot of summarizing with only the odd bit of comment here and there. Her vote for Zil seems to have been based mostly on
faintly shoddy reasoning against Pitch compared to everyone else and he came to it late.
which Zil actually addressed himself here:
I'll probably be accused of latching onto the suspicion on Pitch, but he somewhat bothers me too. This feels a bit forced.
And this feels a bit self-conscious, if you don't mind my saying so. As does your first post toDay. I just don't see what the wolves hoped to gain with these particular two kills if Zil's one of them: cast suspicion on him by killing Kath while at the same time corroborating his suspicion of Nessa by killing Ozzy??? Nah, doesn't make sense as far as I can see. So I'd think Kath was most probably a classic no trace kill.

[Pitchwife]

Because last Night it was 20 against 4. 4/20=2/10=1/5 (don't lynch me for doing math!) For them not good odds and on Day 1 they might have thought that they could give a lousy excuse and get away with it. Well, that would be my reasoning.
No, Cailín has a point. You're right that people can get lynched with lousy excuses on Day One, but most of the times innocents are perfectly capable of doing it themselves so the wolves needn't expose themselves by starting it. (Which is the reason why the person starting a bandwagon tends to be less suspected than the ones who jump on it later, which in turn, being common knowledge, can make it safer for a wolf to cast the first vote for somebody than to latch on to a previous vote, which in turn etc. regressus ad infinitum. Isn't Werewolf fun?:D)

OK, bedtime again (indeed long past it). See you later!

[Rikae]

Honestly though, why would a wolf be actively looking for an easy lynch? Far more sensible to just go with the flow and come up with a mildly credible explanation afterwards. Or baiting - and then passing it off as the smart ploy of an ordinary villager. Rikae?

I do agree Nessa looks fairly bad after Ozban's untimely end.

Baiting? Well, you would know.

Seriously, you don't think a wolf would be actively seeking reason for suspicion, but you do think a wolf would make a completely unfounded accusation that leaves her open to easy attack? Why?

[Rikae]

Because last Night it was 20 against 4. 4/20=2/10=1/5 (don't lynch me for doing math!) For them not good odds and on Day 1 they might have thought that they could give a lousy excuse and get away with it. Well, that would be my reasoning.

No, it's simpler than that.

Because wolves need to be active, and helpful, and look like they're trying to catch a wolf. Unless it's wolf-on-wolf, it needs to be manufactured suspicion, and odd behavior makes an excellent foundation for that.

[Loslote]

And this feels a bit self-conscious, if you don't mind my saying so. As does your first post toDay.

I can see your point, but self-conscious is not a trait I usually associate with Inzilawolf. Actually, I'm feeling pretty good about Zil.

Now, here's where I'd usually make a list, and I started to, before I realized it went like this:

I trust me

I sorta trust Zil

Maybe I could see Nessa as a wolf and if I squint really hard, Valier a little bit?

Everone else is hopeless.

So, I figured it wasn't really work the space necessary to write out all the names. :p

[Inziladun]

Initial thoughts: Ozban is an interesting kill as players tend to leave those who haven't played for a while alive - unless there's a good reason. Definite Seer hint in there, eh? Eh?

I'd read less into Kath's death, because the urge to kill Kath is completely understandable at all times. :p (I will have a look at Kath, of course)

I'd probably agree. Ozban's death is the more strange of the two, given that this is only his second WW game, and there are still many players who weren't that familiar with him. Could it be as simple as the no-trace? Why didn't they go after one of the "names", who tend to be harder to lynch?

Ok, not sure why certain people today find the lynching of Sally an obvious blunder - we had no idea who to string up! I didn't vote for her, but I'm not going to just assume that evil folk were involved in her slaying. Can people explain what was so wrong about choosing Sally (without referring to hindsight, naturally).

Well, I wasn't here for the ending of the Day, but I hadn't thought anything evil of Sally. I am merely curious to know what was in the thoughts of her voters.

Right now, I have a good feeling about Legate, Lommy, Rikae and strangely enough about Inzil, though he seems somewhat paranoid. Reason tells me Boromir88, Eomer and Kitanna are innocent. Pure insanity tells me Aganzir probably is worth keeping alive as well.

The wolves are almost certainly A Little Green, Macalaure, Loslote and Nessa (confidence is key).

Paranoid? I don't think you've got to see me in Paranoia Mode yet. ;)

I'm still not comfortable with Nessa.
Mac worries me because he's been unnaturally passive, for him. Ordinarily, he's already called for my lynch by now. :rolleyes:

I hope this information will suffice for those interested in forming an opinion on my part in this plot or building a case against me. I will return later or tomorrow with something more substantial.

That's rather an odd thing to say. Whether it's evil-odd, or just odd, I don't know.

[Inziladun]

Maybe I could see Nessa as a wolf and if I squint really hard, Valier a little bit?

Trouble is, I'm not that familiar with Val. I think I've only been in one game with her. I wasn't all that impressed with her vote for me, but obviously all those who joined her weren't evil.
There was this (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=645674&postcount=81), in which she promised to "help this village rid itself of these baddies", which could have been one of those lupine assertions of innocence.

She started suspecting me here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=645699&postcount=102), before anyone had voted for me, but waited over an hour, until both Boro and Kath voted me before she followed suit. A wolf wanting an innocent to go along before committing?

[Kitanna]

Ahem. I don't have the time I thought I would have. I misjudged the DL times with my schedule and I now know this isn't going to work. I just don't have the time to dedicate. That said...

I'm the village hunter. I figure I should give you the choice to lynch me and suggest someone for me to kill with me. I realize this could mean two innocents die if no one agrees and I get lynched and take down an innocent. This plan has problems, but one way or another I won't be alive that much longer, so I thought it'd be worth a shot to try to get a wolf too.

I'm super sorry about this.

EDIT: I only have about nine hours to send the mod god my choice, so if I don't see a consensus I'll just pick who I think is guilty.

[Inziladun]

Hmm. Well, Kit, I hate to hear that. I don't see what you as a baddie would gain by false-revealing as the Hunter, so I'm inclined to believe you. I might say Nessa, just now. Or Val? Hearing people's suggestions could be informative in itself.

[Macalaure]

I'd like to apologise in advance. This post is bigger than I wanted it to be...


The lynch

Lottie is the first to suspect Sally a little. Jokes that she's not responsible if it turns into a bandwaggon. (Inzil criticises this later)
Pitch is annoyed that Sally suspects him for no apparent reason.
Kitanna gives some points against her.
Shasta is bothered that he can't read her.
Agan is the first to suspect her because she's too quiet. She repeats it in another post.

In her big post, Sally goes after Lommy (mildly), Skip, and Pitch.

Pitch defended Sally's quietness before, but then attacks her after her big post. What I don't like is that he continues saying that he doesn't know what to think of her. It's fishy.

Skip accuses her of twisting his words, which will later also be the reason he votes for her (he's second, Nessa leads by 4 at the time). Not a good reason, though.

Wilwa joins later with two posts. She's the first to vote for her, at a time when the vote is already plenty spread out.

Lottie just says Sally still worries her. She will give Sally a crucial third vote (though she said she crossed with Skip).

Lommy could vote for Sally, but doesn't say why. After her vote (4, putting her in the lead) she pulls a Lommy and feels like Sally is probably innocent.

Agan says she will probably vote for Sally for her cobbler comment. She will vote for her later (crossing with Lommy's)

Out of the voters, Wilwa doesn't looks that suspicious and more genuine. Skip doesn't look very bad. Lottie looks fishy. Lommy and Aganzir look bad because they put her in the lead and use bad or little reasons. In any case, though, Sally was not a very likely lynch until very late, so if a wolf was on the line, I'm sure a better person to vote for could have been found. Pitch's behaviour is a bit fishy, as I said.


The dead

Neither Ozban nor Kath were talked about much, so it's most likely they were killed to leave us no trail.

BG looks better (she suspected Ozban, and usually (though not always) you don't kill the people you suspect during the day)
Aganzir looks better (for noting that she never played with him - you don't usually kill those on Day1) (I think Lommy and somebody else also said something like this, but I can't find it anymore)

Ozban is very slightly suspicious of Inzil, Nessa, and Agan. A bit more of Sally. He votes Nessa while rhyming, not giving any more reasons. I suppose it's possible a wolf-Nessa could have thought he was the seer, but I somehow don't believe it.
Kath suspects Inzil, Legate, Wilwa.
This makes Inzil look better. There was no need for him to kill two who slightly suspected him.

Wilwa is the only one who actually goes after Kath a little. This makes her look better (see BG above).

Lommy states she never played with Ozban and is happy to play with Kath again - very unlikely she would sanction killing both of them.


The general voting and how it makes me feel

Cailín -> Aganzir (neutral)
Kitanna -> Pitch (very good, because I agree with her)
Legate -> Lottie (neutral)
Rikae -> Wilwa (neutral)
Inzil -> Nessa (not so happy)
Shasta -> Lottie (not so good)
Boro -> Inzil (bad, because I don't understand why)
Sally -> Pitch(2)
Ozban -> Nessa(2)
Wilwa -> Sally (neutral)
Pitch -> Nessa(3) (baddie-baddie-bad-bad)
Kath -> Inzil(2)
Valier -> Inzil(3) (major eyebrow-raiser)
Nessa -> Rikae (neutral)
Eomer -> Nessa(4) (not good at all - this Nessa-waggon, I don't like it)
Skip -> Sally(2) (not so good)
e-d -> Pitch (neutral)
Lottie -> Sally(3) (not good)
Lommy -> Sally(4) (not good)
Aganzir -> Sally(5) (not good)


General comments

Greenie has posted a little more at least - mostly joining Mac in seeing cobbler hints in Agan's each and every post; which is entirely possible. I mean, Agan is daring enough to sort of hide in the open, and I remember an Agan-cobbler who talked about the cobbler all the time; but since our primary aim is not to lynch the cobbler but the wolves, I'm disinclined to vote her for the time being.Greenie is safely under my radar at the moment, so I don't know about her, but you are definitely misinterpreting/misrepresenting what I said. I didn't see Aganzir hinting everywhere, just exactly once, and definitely not in the open, but as concealed as possible. Also, I never intended to vote Aganzir, for exactly the reason you state.

now some people have nothing better to do than looking for the cobbler? I'm looking at you, Mac.It was by no means the only thing I talked about. I'd also say it's better than the bantering or endless role/rule discussion we see so much on Day1, so come on.

I don't like it how you keep on saying I only talk about Aganzir and cobblers and that that makes you suspicious of me. The fact I suspected you is not the real reason, by any chance? ;)

No. It won't work - unless the Cobbler says it in the thread. So if the wolves get sally's name tonight, they can go back and realise "Hey, she said this!" I really really really don't like this point.Interesting. When I accused you of doing exactly this, you didn't understand what I was talking about. Then you say this to Sally. I think if I had actually caught you doing this, you would not direct people's attention to somebody else doing it after "playing dumb" first. You're off the cobbler-hook for now.

It was not in the village's best interest to draw attention to this idea.Actually it was. As Agan and I said, the cobbler needs to give a hint on the thread. Unless the cobbler already did so and got away with it, it will be pretty hard now.

Someone who starts the Day with first post saying "both the kills have something to do with me" is either insane or weird.Weird, I'd say. Why would you want to put yourself into such a situation on Day2? Inzil got some votes yesterDay, but no major cases brought forward - he was not under immediate pressure to get lynched toDay.

Ok, not sure why certain people today find the lynching of Sally an obvious blunder - we had no idea who to string up!Maybe I'm paranoid, but this sounds like an attempt to cover up the fact that a fellow wolf was in the running yesterDay, too.

Mac worries me because he's been unnaturally passive, for him. Ordinarily, he's already called for my lynch by now.I think the former I dealt with now. :D The latter will have to wait, since I don't suspect you yet.

Seeing all the Ozban-was-the-seer-and-dreamt-of-Nessa talk gives me the idea the wolves might have killed Ozban to frame Nessa and orchestrate an easy lynch for toDay.


Reading over everything, I found myself getting worried about Boro. I will have to reread his posts before I can make my mind up and give reasons.


These are all just thoughts, and some of the stated suspicions contradict. I'll sum this all up later.

-crossed since Kitanna. Oh, man...

[Inziladun]

Wow, Mac. That looks.....pretty darned logical, and well reasoned.

[Valier]

Akk the day has gotten away from me...I'm trying to find time to read everything, but thought I'd better get a few of my thoughts down.
So after forcing myself to read Mac's longggg post:p (sorry) I actually agree with him on Kath and Ozzy's deaths. I think they would have been easy D1 kills, not overly traceable to anyone in particular. The wolves would have to be seasoned or gungho players to start with a strategic kill on the first night. or they are just going with the flow and killing two "easier" kills. What I don't quite get is why they weren't trying harder to nab the seer? I didn't think either of them was the seer.
On the Kitanna 'sitiation, that sucks that you don't have the time to play Kit, it was nice playing in a game with you again no matter how short. I do think we should come up with a plan to use your going to the villages advantage. Hmmm I'm going to give this some thought.
As to Inzil's suggestion as to you taking me down with Kit, I would want some more evidence as to my guilt. There is no way that I think I should be the one to die. That would be a waste of this chance oportunity. I know it never helps to out and out say your Innocent, that only makes everyone suspect you more....but hey I am and I just wanna stick around and help catch some wolves;)

[elronds_daughter]

I'll try to give a more substantial post once I've had some sleep, but my feelings at the moment are...

Mac makes sense to me, and I can't seem him being guilty.

Inzil is behaving not at all like the Inzilawolf I have seen before, so I'm inclined to trust him.

I'm mildly worried about almost everyone who killed Sally. The lack of adequate reasoning bewilders me; but, then again, it may just have been Day-1 paranoia.

I still don't like the vibes I'm getting from Pitch.

Eomer worries me. There is a bit too much defensiveness...

Not really sure about other people. Legate is very analytical, but seems to me he's usually like that.

On the whole Kitanna situation...this is highly tragic. There may be tears.

Right, well. Now I've said my piece and I'm off to bed.

[Macalaure]

Boro

#11 - nothing of consequence.

#45 - wow. This looks like a real solid contribution at first glance, but it's not. All he says is that he can't read Aganzir, without giving any actual in-game points, making a comment about my drawer-mantelpiece stuff, joking about Kath, defending Pitch, and talk about how he skims the thread.

#56/#57 - joking around with Inzil and some role-talk.

#95 - four(!) paragraphs defending the role-and-rule talk against Wilwa. Defends Pitch pretty staunchly (note is awareness of and worry about a possible bandwaggon).

#103 - says he's going to vote for one of those he forgot were playing: Lommy, Manwe, Nessa, Greenie, Shasta among them. Some chatter with Lommy, too.

#112 - buries the hatchet with Wilwa.

#124 - chatters around a little. Lists Eomer and Greenie as possible votes, because they didn't catch his eye enough. Then votes Inzil for a fairly stupid reason. Inzil had no votes at this point and, I think, no major suspicions thrown his way.

All Boro actually does is defend Pitch. This means he's either a wolf and Pitch his companion, or it's the other thing. Neither explains his total lack of trying to suspect anybody for a remotely serious reason. Since I suspect Pitch quite a bit, I can't help but suspect Boro a lot, too.

[Boromir88]

I'm not sure why everyone gets surprised when Kath winds up killed. She's a smart and astute player. Always gives a thorough read through of the posts and then gives her opinions.

Ozban, no clue, played with him once before and it looks like a no-trace, but I'm always surprised at packs who go for no-trace over the seer. Maybe this pack feels like they can avoid the seer for a while by hiding in the masses?


All Boro actually does is defend Pitch. This means he's either a wolf and Pitch his companion, or it's the other thing. Neither explains his total lack of trying to suspect anybody for a remotely serious reason. Since I suspect Pitch quite a bit, I can't help but suspect Boro a lot, too.

I work backwards as I always find it hard to come up with suspicions on Day 1. I mean, just because someone disagrees with you about roles or mechanics doesn't mean that person's a wolf. So, I try to start taking out people I do not want to get lynched and then go from there, by looking at the votes and whether I should vote for someone who's already been voted for or add another name.

Some of my banter and joking may look useless to you, but to me, I think I've already gotten a good idea on several players.

Pitch has a nickname that seems stuck with him forever, Mr. Agreeable, and this usually gets him suspected early and often. With the unexplained uneasy feelings and Pitch being agreeable, I saw the same thing happening yesterday. Maybe he is a wolf, but I'm not his companion.

Lommy yelled at me for questioning the sanity of her mind. It looked like a big-little sisterly thing to do. We were joking (at least I was, she would probably say it was a jerk thing for me to say :p), but gave me a good feeling about Lommy.

Agan was up to something, but she'd be up to something no matter the role. Obvious to point out, yes, but I wanted to give more time to figure her out, now that I've seen how the mind of the Alpha Female Scar works.

I'm used to taking notice of Greenie, Eomer, and Inzil and I really wasn't yesterday. Greenie because she's completely blind-sided me as a wolf before, when I said something on how she looks so sweet and innocent, and Nog warned me of her sharp-claws and fangs side.

Eomer, much like morm, tends to be aggressive and pretty confident of his decisions.

Inzil, I've had a good read on him in the past, and he's usually one of the more "straight to business" people, but couldn't remember any of his posts other than not having a pillow.

You should know, Mac, once the information from the lynches and kills is known, I become my most annoying and biggest thorn in people's sides. I find Day 1's difficult to get through, just choose not to gripe about them that much.

[Loslote]

Lottie just says Sally still worries her. She will give Sally a crucial third vote (though she said she crossed with Skip).

I would just like to point something out. You say that "she said she crossed". I'm sure you're not insinuating that I lied about that, but I thought I might as well point out that lying about a cross post is, in my mind (and, I think, in most everyone's) very bad form. I assure you, if I say I've cross posted, I cross posted. And I don't even mean that thing where you reply and see the post before you hit submit but don't really read it, either. Anyway, I know you didn't mean anything by it, but I didn't want anyone else to read that and assume that you thought I'd lied about it. ;)

[Loslote]

It's more than likely that the wolves and the cobbler try to identify each other as soon as possible, so we should watch out for people who look like they know too much (even if they can't really do that till tomorrow). Of course the wolves & the cobbler have information we don't, but it's still possible they get overly confident and slip something.

So where does that put Rikae? :confused: She seems to know something we don't.

This could be a coincidence. It could have no correlation whatsoever. Or it could be cobbler!Nessa trying to hint back at Agan, who she thinks is a wolf, or it could be wolf!Nessa trying to hint back at Agan, who she thinks is the cobbler. Just throwing that out there.

[Cailín]

Seriously, you don't think a wolf would be actively seeking reason for suspicion, but you do think a wolf would make a completely unfounded accusation that leaves her open to easy attack? Why?

Honestly, after so many werewolf games I do not believe wolves conform to a certain behavioural pattern at all. If I had been a wolf, I would probably have tried the fly under the radar approach yesterDay. After all, this village is huge. I have no idea who is in it. I just think that completely unfounded accusations on Day 1 are actually easier and more convincingly defended.

I feel better about Mac after his long analysis, because we have clearly been thinking along the same lines.

Not sure what to do about your situation, Kitanna. I'd honestly rather not put you up for lynching because well, you are innocent. Just target whoever you think is guilty and we will have two shots at finding a wolf instead of one. We can definitely use those odds anyway.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, back... commenting on a bit of stuff, some thoughts about people, then on the Kit issue in the end...
BG looks better (she suspected Ozban, and usually (though not always) you don't kill the people you suspect during the day)
This is a good point.

As for what Mac also said, there is the thing that I can imagine some people (Agan, Lommy...) not wanting to kill e.g. Ozban because they didn't get much chance to play with him before, however, one has to consider that they might be just one Wolf in the big pack and perhaps their votes would be overriden. The question is though, overriden by WHAT - since it really seems now that the only reason was no-trace kill, or possibly framing someone (or possibly killing our day by letting us wonder what the heck is this all about).

And, there is one thing I really don't like: I am starting to suspect Inzil. A bit, but anyway. Which is horrible, thinking that in such a case it would be, what, the fifth time in a row he was a Wolf? But maybe I haven't seen him "normal" for such a long time that... well, never mind. I am not going to continue on that just now, I am merely wary about him.

Mac's posting looks reasonable, unless it is a part of some huge conspiracy of intertwined posts which are supposed to make certain people look good (Agan? Zil? Nessa?) and make others suspected.

On the superficial level, I have started to be somewhat wary also of Elronhubbard, but from the general tone of her posting it makes me think she is actually innocent. More like gut-feeling from the way she presents herself.

Now there is the time to remark that actually Mac has a point in how Boro did indeed not say much, and in fact, neither he did toDay. Maybe he wished to post something after being "rebuked", but in fact he just very shortly repeated a few things which are really of not so much consequence. Most curious.

And like I said, I don't suspect Lottie that much anymore, and her latter posting confirms this even more.

I'm not sure why everyone gets surprised when Kath winds up killed. She's a smart and astute player. Always gives a thorough read through of the posts and then gives her opinions.
"And others tried to figure out whether it was a compliment." Or, I mean, and other players don't? Kath is a smart player, sure, but one of many. Or are all the other smart players Wolves? And who are they in your opinion, anyway?

And now as for Kitanna - well, happens; and I have no reason to distrust her claim. But if it is so, we have to figure out what to do with it.
Ahem. I don't have the time I thought I would have. I misjudged the DL times with my schedule and I now know this isn't going to work. I just don't have the time to dedicate. That said...

I'm the village hunter. I figure I should give you the choice to lynch me and suggest someone for me to kill with me. I realize this could mean two innocents die if no one agrees and I get lynched and take down an innocent. This plan has problems, but one way or another I won't be alive that much longer, so I thought it'd be worth a shot to try to get a wolf too.

I'm super sorry about this.

EDIT: I only have about nine hours to send the mod god my choice, so if I don't see a consensus I'll just pick who I think is guilty.
Now here goes one important thing. So okay, basically the suggestion is that we "vote" - we give you a suggestion whom to kill, and then vote for you, you get lynched, and take somebody with you.

I have a few things to that - I would prefer, if it is possible (or I don't know what people think), to keep you alive and around at least for a while yet. Depends how much you can, resp. how much you cannot play, Kit. It is somehow dumb, but if it's possible, I would most prefer the idea of keeping you around as a "known innocent", and kill you only at some point when you really cannot go on. That is, if you can pop in at least once in two Days and vote or something in order not to be modfired, I would like to have you here, and perhaps at least chime in with an idea once in a while. You see, the thing is, there are already two kills by Night, I don't really fancy two deaths by Day also. Of course, if we get a Wolf, no problem, but this method of lynching you is no better than a normal lynch, in fact, it's worse (in relation to the amount of people who die, even if one of them is a Wolf).

And that said, if I were to suggest somebody to you, I also don't have much of a clear idea - as more of us don't, I believe - whatever was suggested before is possible, Valier seems a bit creepy, but otherwise I would have to have the time to go through things properly to say anything specific, there are people I am wary of otherwise, like Boro, Rikae, somewhat Zil... but I have not yet made it my focus to go through all their posts.

[Macalaure]

Boro doesn't convince me yet.

I'm sure you're not insinuating that I lied about thatI definitely wasn't. I guess I just worded it badly. :(


I need a list to get a proper grip on my thoughts.

Feel more or less good about.
Shasta
Kitanna (of course)
Wilwa
Inzil
Rikae
BG
Legate
Lommy
These fellows are off the hook for now and will be until something happens that makes me change my mind.

No idea at all.
elronds_daughter
Greenie
Mänwe
ed and Mänwe didn't say much, and Greenie really has been so far under my radar that I don't know what to think. Not good.

Not really suspicious, but not really innocent either.
Loslote
Nessa
Skip
Aganzir
Cailín
Wary of these.

A bit suspicious.
Eomer
Valier
Very wary.

Good deal of suspicion.
Pitch
Boro
Are most likely to receive my vote toDay, unless something changes my mind (which is still very possible, of course).

[Kitanna]

This is the last post I can make. I'm going to stick with who I've already chosen. If enough of you lynch me and hope I'm right, well I hope I'm right too. Or maybe you'll let me stay to keep one more innocent body around until Nog arranges my suicide because of inactivity. Either way best of luck.

[Nessa Telrunya]

I'm not so sure about the cobbler-wolf hinting theory. It was way to conspicuous to be something planned, not to mention the idea had already been brought up.

[skip spence]

Good Day (if you can call it good and day)

EDIT: xed with Skip
What, you confused my Avatar with Eomer's? :confused:

Speaking of the Sally bandwagon and her cobbler idea.
But that said, I can see the reason of voting sally because of that. However (and once again when I am fresh, I have to take a look at the bandwaggon for her, to see how big it actually was and who was there), I am inclined to believe that some WWs might have very likely mingled with the crowd there.
Personally I missed that cobbler-hint thingie yesterDay but reading back I get the impression a few of her voters went for her because of that (Wilwa, Agan, Lommy?). Or with that as a pretext. Obviously it would be interesting to find out if there was a werewolf (or wolves?) among the crowd who was in apparent danger of getting lynched. By the crowd I mean Pitch, Lottie, Nessa and Inzil.

Here I think Nessa looks objectively the worst but I also share Mac's concern about a lupine stitch-up, what with the killing of Oz, who I was also surprised to see killed. A set-up for an easy lynch might might be the explanation. Or that Nessa is a frightened wolf. Or neither. :confused:

Most people left the voting until late. If there was a ww in that crowd, how would his/her fellows act?

If you find that hint in Ozzy's post, I am going to give you a medal. (And then probably lynch you, since I can't see an innocent seeing a Seer see-saw see... something there.
I find this over-the-top defence of unfortunate Ozzy rather suspect to be honest. You wouldn't dream of killing your buddy, eh?

Inzil is behaving not at all like the Inzilawolf I have seen before, so I'm inclined to trust him.
I've seen this sentiment elsewhere and I don't like it. Inzil is shrewd and could of course alter his playing style to suit a particular game. If his ww behaviour was that predictable I wouldn't fear him at all. But I do. Nothing very worrying about Inzil at present though.

Today, and spontaneously, I feel good about Pitch, Rikae and Mac. They all make sense and seem helpful. Though I must question the premiss that making sense is a good sign of innocence.

Getting slightly worried about Legate. Not convinced of Nessa's good intentions either. She was a bit twitchy yesterDay. Also worried about wolves hiding in the crowd. This is such a large village one tends to forget completely about those who rarely comment (and lacks name recognition). Wouldn't be surprised to find at least two among the submarines. But it's always hard to vote for a someone you have no info on.

[Nessa Telrunya]

I'm not so sure if I'll be back close to DL, so I'm gonna go ahead and cast my vote. I'm still really worried about Rikae, and it wouldn't sit right with me to vote some of the other speculated people when it's a whole mess in there.

++Rikae

[skip spence]

This is the last post I can make. I'm going to stick with who I've already chosen. If enough of you lynch me and hope I'm right, well I hope I'm right too. Or maybe you'll let me stay to keep one more innocent body around until Nog arranges my suicide because of inactivity. Either way best of luck.

I'm sorry you have to leave as I enjoyed your contribution. I find no reason to not believe you and hope you can leave with a bang and a dead wolf.

However, I don't like the idea of just lynching Kit and let her do her thing. Even though I think this statistically favours the village over the wolves (the latter lose their influence over the voting) it seems like a Day wasted and today's game ruined.

This is a question to Nogrod. If Kit is "modfired" will she simply disappear from the game of can she still perform her function as a hunter? Maybe just removing her is the best solution in either case?

[Mänwe]

This was always going to be the outcome; our numbers large enough for the evil amongst us to strike with impunity- such is the wickedness of Melkor- during these early days of torment. For this is the torment he seeks in his discord, to have in His creation, creation marred with self preservation.

And so two unspoken spirits are extinguished and one of ours who was among the most talkative is lynched. Posts of no substance and posts of substance are marked as being both innocent and evil; the same can be said of those who speak profusely and those who do not, heh none of us can win. Shall we now see two well spoken spirits killed during Melkor’s forced sleep and one unspoken spirit lynched?

Much is said of ones innocence that lies low, so I would have those who have spoken little (and who had offered no reason for their absence) step forward in this darkness, identify themselves because I can barely see and explain themselves. Those who have appeared to me as quite quiet and who have three or less posts in our first day of incarceration (and who survived the night’s carnage) are as I see it, the following.

[accountable, just]Cailín; #10(1i) – informs us of a flight, will be interesting to see how vocal she is today after posts #186(2i) and #205(2ii) appear to be reactionary to the nights events.

[unaccountable!]Blind Guardian; #47(1i) offers no reason for his absence and says due to this absence he will not vote. While Day 2, #181(2i) #187(2ii) expresses delight at survival and math reasoning for the ‘easy lynch’.

[unaccountable]A Little Green; #73(1i) a late Day 1 post (and nothing since) and casts a few nonchalant suspicions on Agan and Rikae.

[unaccountable]elronds_daughter; #71(1i) a late post to say driving a result of inactivity and appears content to just follow the flow of previous chatter. #152(1ii) jumps in with a blind (bandwagon) vote seemingly just conforming. #200(2i), ah back again to say a few odd bits that again to me appear to conform. Will look out for the more substantial post. Perhaps all a little too obvious.

I’ll hold back comments on other players for the time being.

[Rikae]

Honestly, after so many werewolf games I do not believe wolves conform to a certain behavioural pattern at all. If I had been a wolf, I would probably have tried the fly under the radar approach yesterDay. After all, this village is huge. I have no idea who is in it. I just think that completely unfounded accusations on Day 1 are actually easier and more convincingly defended.


Be that as it may (and you're right on on count: as a wolf I would be bold enough to make unfounded accusations and "stir the pot" if I felt so inclined), you began all this by implying that a Nessa-wolf would certainly not have dared to say "she knows something we don't", this sort of comment being somehow so risky, so assertive that no wolf would dare try to get suspicion going in such a bold way. Balderdash.

[Thinlómien]

That's not to say that Zil's post didn't make me paranoid about him instantly, quite the opposite. Someone who starts the Day with first post saying "both the kills have something to do with me" is either insane or weird.Exactly, that made me raise my eyebrows too. Besides, Zil said that mere three minutes after Nog's post. So either he has excellent memory and quick brains, he's a super fast checker (and thinker) or he actually knew the kill before the DL. Very fishy, I think.

I don't think there was an intentional "let's all gand up and kill Sally" bandwagon, more of an "I'll vote Sally, and maybe other people will too, maybe not" bandwagon. If that makes any sense.Agreed.

Actually, and as Rikae had already said, this thing had been used by Cobblers in several games, I believe, or I think I remember being in more than one. It was in fact one thing that was on my mind since the start of Day 1 and I was just waiting who is going to say that. I was quite surprised when by the time I have been around people actually haven't started tossing the idea around, I might have hoped that nobody is going to mention it.Yes - it probably occured to several of us that the cobbler could do that (me included) but I was really hoping all innocents would have the brains no to say it aloud so naturally when Sally said it I thought it was extremely fishy and I can't blame myself or others thinking it so.

Comments on dead or to-be-dead people:
Sally - well, since people have been questioning it, I can wholeheartedly admit I didn't have any good reason to vote her. Slight detection of fishiness and the cobbler stuff, but that's it. Mostly, I didn't want to see Zil or Nessa go because I thought Zil innocent and didn't like the Nessa wagon. On hindsight, that's rather sad because I'm currently suspecting both Zil and Nessa.
Kath and Ozzy - no idea why they died. Feel like checking their posts but it's already been done by several people so not sure I'd find anything now. Kind of sad to see them go because I like them both a lot and I would have liked to play with them more.
Kitanna - too bad you have to go. :( I believe your claim and I'll give you my opinion for what it's worth, but we must yet decide whether to lynch you or let you be modfired. I would kind of support the lynch but I'm not sure if we have time to decide on the kill properly. Anyway, also worried about what one more innocent (probably) dying toDay does to our numbers.

Ozban, no clue, played with him once before and it looks like a no-trace, but I'm always surprised at packs who go for no-trace over the seer. Maybe this pack feels like they can avoid the seer for a while by hiding in the masses?Exactly.

It is somehow dumb, but if it's possible, I would most prefer the idea of keeping you around as a "known innocent", and kill you only at some point when you really cannot go on. That is, if you can pop in at least once in two Days and vote or something in order not to be modfired, I would like to have you here, and perhaps at least chime in with an idea once in a while.That doesn't sound bad to me.

Aiee why did Kit not tell us who she's hunting? Not sure I trust her judgement (no offense).

Mänwë is around, yay! His post totally confuses me, though.

Away for now, will be back later!


edit: Rikae
edit2: the edit above means "xed with Rikae" :D

[A Little Green]

Gah. My computer epic-failed yesterDay which is why I didn't vote - the stupid machine quite simply refused to work. I have a lot to catch up on but I'll try my best!

[Rikae]

Regarding Kit, I'd prefer it if we had more time to choose her kill, if we have to do so. Even after two days, when she is scheduled to be modfired, we'll have more information to go on. Trouble is, it would require her to be around to change her kill at that time according to the village, unless she and Nog are willing to have her kill determined by a vote of the village in two days. It would also require Kit to vote toDay to buy time.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Exactly, that made me raise my eyebrows too. Besides, Zil said that mere three minutes after Nog's post. So either he has excellent memory and quick brains, he's a super fast checker (and thinker) or he actually knew the kill before the DL. Very fishy, I think.

That is odd. Not to say he couldn't have looked that quickly and made the post (it was a very short post, after all), but still. Good spot!

I say we let Kitanna alone and try to hunt a wolf today.

[Rikae]

Eomer of the Rohirrim - Nothing suspicious so far.

elronds_daughter - What I've seen seemed innocentish.
Macalaure - He makes sense, but I disagree with him on several counts. Too quick to clear names based on the kills, but that is like
him, so not suspicious.
Shastanis Althreduin - Where is he?
Loslote - I'm really not sure what to make of her. Suspicious, but
I know I always suspect her.
Kitanna - Keep around.
wilwarin538 - I haven't quite decided whether her freak out over
the cobbler hinting makes her look innocent or not.
Nessa Telrunya - Saying I know something as a way of casting
suspicion on me didn't make sense. She is being defended quite a bit
by Cailin, and with arguments that themselves don't make much sense. Would Cailin defend a packmate openly, though? I don't think she would. Will look elsewhere for now for that reason.
Pitchwife - Creepy, and not because he's agreeable. I'll have to take
a closer look at his posts to put my finger on what bothers me.
Inziladun - See Lottie.His first post toDay clearly shows he's paranoid,
but paranoia isn't limited to wolves.
Boromir88 - Mac has a good point - he isn't himself. He isn't his wolf
self either, though.
A Little Green - No read.
Blind Guardian -Seems ok.
Skip Spence - Didn't like his vote one bit.
Mänwe - A quiet one talking about quiet ones?
Valier - No read.
Legate of Amon Lanc - Sensible and creepy.
Thinlómien - Tending innocent.
Aganzir - Tending cobbler.
Caílin - See Nessa.

[Cailín]

Be that as it may (and you're right on on count: as a wolf I would be bold enough to make unfounded accusations and "stir the pot" if I felt so inclined), you began all this by implying that a Nessa-wolf would certainly not have dared to say "she knows something we don't", this sort of comment being somehow so risky, so assertive that no wolf would dare try to get suspicion going in such a bold way. Balderdash.

Aye, well, I meant to imply no such thing - I just wanted to say that on Day 1 there is no sense to go looking for an easy lynch, because they usually tend to present themselves - but we all know one needs to be fairly bold to go against you. ;)

[Cailín]

I wanted to look into Loslote and Nessa, because I seem to be swayed by the suspicion against them. I also decided - based on a gut feeling - to analyse Wilwarin and elronds_daughter even though I had taken little note of them before.

So far I only had time for Wilwarin and Nessa. Don't expect these analyses to be like a glass of clear, cool water, though, because my thoughts are seldom quite as organised as some of the die-hards here.

Wilwarin

#77 seems offended by the discussion about roles and behaviour. Tone is somewhat patronizing, which I have rarely seen from Wilwa before. Antagonises more people by “refusing to jump on the Pitch wagon”.
She lists some initial thoughts on people, mostly based on past performance and behavior. Who are Cupcake and Pop?

#83 argues with Rikae, which prompts a vote from Rikae’s end.

#88 agrees with Legate that Loslote’s post looks somewhat suspicious. Confusion about a possible Cobbler hint from Aganzir detected by Legate.

#89 Clarifies her fear of a Pitch wagon

#93 Defends herself against Pitch’s accusations. Says she does not suspect Legate or Loslote yet, though concedes there are some legitimate reasons to suspect Lottie.

#106 Defends herself again, this time against Boro, who was a staunch defender of the roles and rules discussion. Her tone is milder now.

#116 Ah, Cupcake refers to Sally. Wilwarin does not like her post, mainly because of the whole Cobbler thing (she does not mention this explicitly in an attempt to conceal from the Cobbler / Wolves what she obviously thinks is a good idea). She defends Skip and questions Sally’s assessment of Kitanna.

#123 suspects Sally (and has various reasonable arguments for Day 1) and thinks she will vote for her today.

#129 votes for Sally.

#134 again defends herself against Kath, who misrepresented Wilwa’s initial post in her analysis. Defends herself against accusations of defensiveness (always counterproductive)

#160 does not like Aganzir drawing attention to Sally’s point about the Cobbler (which was also Wilwa’s main reason for voting Sally) and suspects Aganzir might not have the village’s best interest at heart.

Today

#171 defends her decision to vote for Sally again referring to the Cobbler incident.

Wilwarin has been quite consistent so far. She does seem fairly defensive – not just of herself but of other people as well – and such behavior always leads to discomfort. However, she was one of the few people yesterday who bothered to build a case – however wrong it may have been – against someone and stated her reasons for her vote as clearly and lucidly as she thought advisable. At the moment I doubt she is evil.

Nessa

#28 starts with some maths. I won’t argue with that.

#55 Confused about Rikae’s suspicion of Pitchwife. Suggests Rikae “seems to know something we don’t”

#64 explains her lack of participation

#147 votes Rikae. Claims her post was misinterpreted and she had meant to accuse Rikae, not out her as a possible Seer. Says Rikae has been jumpy. Unsure about the Legate-is-the-Cobbler debate and the suspicion against Sally.

Today

#211 votes Rikae again and does not think she will be back.

There is really so very little to go on here. Post #55 looks weird, but could just be carelessly phrased. She hardly comments on any of the other players. I have never played with Nessa before, so I cannot comment on her style (to me it looks like she may be relatively new to the game). She has definitely done little to make her look innocent.

[Inziladun]

I would prefer to keep Kit as a known innocent and a thorn in the side of the wolves, but her words seem to indicate she won't be able to do anything more in the game, be it voting, or just observing the thread in order to decide who she should hunt. Her most recent post said it was "the last post she can make", not specifying that only went for toDay, or the rest of the game. She seems convinced she's going to be modfired, and wants to instead go out using her gift.
So, if she's merely modfired, we don't risk innocent blood being spilled with her, but her gift will be wasted. There are five baddies, including the Cobbler. That's a decent chance of her getting one of them.
As far as wolves go, I'm still concerned about Val, Nessa, and maybe Pitch. I think Mac raised some decent points about him.

[Rikae]

Do we know that Kit can't use her gift if modfired?

Even so, we can wait until toMorrow to lynch her... if she's gone now, though, we have no say in who she's hunting, nor do we know it. We need clarification from the NogMod, but what if he can't? What if she isn't the hunter at all? I don't like this.

[Aganzir]

Hey Boro I had a dream Legate mailed someone I study with and told her I had a huge crush on her (I don't). She proceeded to text me to meet her at her favourite bar tonight. Any help? :p

Now, I'm going to divide people in groups based on what they said of me yesterday.

Found me evil
Mac (I was down as cobbler till he found someone better)
Cailín (voted for me randomly)

Found me good
Shasta (I'm logical and down to earth)
Lottie (I looked almost too good)
Legate ("I am not suspecting Agan - at least not because of what she said, as I believe what she said makes sense. And if she were a Wolf/Cobbler signaling to the Cobbler/Wolves, she would have actually given a more direct hint, I believe. But that is what she does not seem to do, in my opinion.")
ed (Agan doesn't look too bad to me, maybe a little shifty, but I'll have to go back and read through things again)

Didn't reach a conclusion
Pitch ("Agan is daring enough to sort of hide in the open, and I remember an Agan-cobbler who talked about the cobbler all the time; but since our primary aim is not to lynch the cobbler but the wolves, I'm disinclined to vote her for the time being. It's when she starts other people of being the cobbler that I'll get worried about her.")
wilwa (thinks I'm too obvious to be the cobbler which might be the plan)
Rikae (I could be anything)
Lommy (refused to talk about me)

Now, I'm almost certain Mac isn't a wolf. I'm aware I looked cobblerish yesterday. I don't think a wolf would be the first to point it out and suspect me because of it: even though I tend to talk about the cobbler a lot, the wolves simply couldn't be certain it wasn't me.

I'm more concerned about Legate. He seemed to pooh-pooh the confusion around me with "if she was evil she would've dropped more obvious hints!" Legate should realise no real hinting could take place yesterday anyway, so I don't get why he thinks I would've been more direct as a baddie. Basically he says I'm innocent because I didn't do something I wouldn't even have been able to do.

Pitch is interesting as well. He basically says "Agan could be the cobbler but let's not lynch her at least until she starts suspecting others of being the cobbler!" It could possibly be a wolf hinting at a suspected cobbler: "Hey there I see you, now calm down!"

Wilwa reproached me for underlining sally's cobbler thing. Before that she said I looked too obvious to be the cobbler which might be my plan. I find it interesting she never actually seemed to suspect me, though. If you're innocent and someone basically screams cobbler to you, why not act on it?

I find ed's 71 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=645661&postcount=71) slightly fishy. It's like "I haven't seen anything particularly bad about Agan & Lottie, I should probably go back and check (if I can justify possible future suspicion against them)!"

Agan always refers to unknown people as a 'she', it's her way of protesting against our male-dominated society (at least, that's what I like to think she's doing).
Yeah, for me she is the norm. ;)

Nessa seems off; the "oddsmaking" post just looks like trying to seem helpful. That sort of thing would be understandable in the Endgame, but really, why do that on Day 1, except to say something for the sake of not being a submarine?
I both agree and disagree. It's a good way to seem helpful, but I also think it's good to know where we stand. The wolves are certainly aware of how long they need to stay alive, and so should us.

I guess skip had a point about the seer not leaving trails that point at unknowns, but I don't like it because it can backfire so easily. Skip hasn't played that much yet, though, so I guess past experience might explain it. I'm not feeling overly good about skip though.

Okay then on to today.

I find it somewhat unnerving that within three minutes of the start of the day, Inzil comes in and draws a link between himself and both the dead. A wolf trying to say it before anyone else does?

mainly the Sally-wagon. What were you lot thinking?
That it was extremely thoughtless of sally to post about the cobbler sending her own name first. It's more likely than not that the cobbler had already thought of it, but when it was said aloud on the thread, it minimised the cobbler's risk of death at doing so. One Schuhmacher once suggested on day 1 that the cobbler might do it and he was almost lynched for it, but us wolves basically knew from then on it was him.
As for me, I had just half an hour to read the entire thread and didn't have too much time to think things through. Sally's post jumped out at me more than anyone else's (and just for the sake of it, I didn't actually suspect her for being quiet).

But then Agan went and brought a lot of attention to it, guaranteeing that the baddies saw it (so the wolves may have assumed the name they received belongs to their Cobbler).
It's idealistic to think the baddies wouldn't have seen it - they are usually the keenest readers of because they need to find the gifteds.

Of course, there is the possibility that either of the kills was suggested to the Wolves by the Cobbler. However, it would be a rather weird pick, in my opinion.
I doubt it. The wolves couldn't afford to kill the one the cobbler suggested, just on the offhand chance it was the cobbler herself.

I am inclined to believe that some WWs might have very likely mingled with the crowd there.
I can't remember right off who voted for her, but I'm actually inclined not to think so. Would the wolves risk voting for someone who basically said "the cobbler will suggest herself first"?

Aww Kit! That's a pity because I had looked forward to playing with you.

Mac not that it probably matters but I xed since an earlier post of Lommy's, therefore not only with her but also Lottie's vote.

When I accused you of doing exactly this, you didn't understand what I was talking about. Then you say this to Sally.
I didn't - because I wasn't doing "exactly that". I found it way more likely they'd try to establish connection about the same way I hinted to you, and that's the kind of comments I intended to keep an eye on. Sending one's own name is highly risky unless it's discussed on the thread before, and that's why I refused to make fun of you in one of my early posts.

This is ridiculous given our history and all, but at the moment I actually find Mac the most innocent-looking.

now that I've seen how the mind of the Alpha Female Scar works.
:cool:

It is somehow dumb, but if it's possible, I would most prefer the idea of keeping you around as a "known innocent", and kill you only at some point when you really cannot go on.
I agree - the longer we can postpone killing the hunter, the better the chances she gets a wolf. But that of course depends on Kit.

I'm not so sure about the cobbler-wolf hinting theory. It was way to conspicuous to be something planned, not to mention the idea had already been brought up.
What exactly is this theory you're talking about?

[Aganzir]

Do we know that Kit can't use her gift if modfired?

Even so, we can wait until toMorrow to lynch her... if she's gone now, though, we have no say in who she's hunting, nor do we know it. We need clarification from the NogMod, but what if he can't? What if she isn't the hunter at all? I don't like this.
While it's good to consider everything, I think you're either being slightly paranoid or trying to distract us. The chances she was lying are extremely slim - you just don't do that if you have to drop out of the game. Not that I like the lack of information much, either.

[Nogrod]

This is a question to Nogrod. If Kit is "modfired" will she simply disappear from the game of can she still perform her function as a hunter? Maybe just removing her is the best solution in either case?Anyone who doesn't post & vote in two Days in a row is removed by modfire after the fact. That is the only rule on modfires. (Although there sure is a principle of charity involved if someone fex. posts a lot and is actively in the game but because of force majeure -reasons or unhappy coincidences is unable to vote in two Days in a row)

Another way to exit the game without getting lynched or killed during the Night is to tell the mod one is withdrawing from the game. In that situation the player is removed in the next suitable narration.

Kit told me she would have to withdraw from the game, but I'll try to get a confirmation from her on the issue of which exact way she'd want to go.


ADD: She is in the game toDay anyway.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Here and reading, for the next hour or so. I'll see how much analysis I can get done in that time.

[Rikae]

While it's good to consider everything, I think you're either being slightly paranoid or trying to distract us. The chances she was lying are extremely slim - you just don't do that if you have to drop out of the game. Not that I like the lack of information much, either.
I don't want Kit lynched toDay. I can't see it coming out well for this confused a village. Distraction? The whole thing is, actually. Now let's talk about you emerging from the cloak of cobblerishness in which you enveloped yourself yesterDay. We can be sure, at least, that if the wolves got your name last Night, they knew why. That aside, are you saying you did it for reactions? Why, then, is Wilwa suspicious for seeing your plan for what it was (and why, for that matter, am I not? I had the same reaction as Wilwa).
You're giving a stabbing-in-all-directions-hoping-something-hits-home impression which could still be called cobblerish toDay. On one hand, I approve of that strategy; testing out reactions, looking for wolfish defences. Still, there are different ways to do it, I think. I feel as though you're waiting more for consensus than for evil to show itself, which makes me uneasy.
Pitch is suspicious, but a bit too widely suspected. Have his packmates decided to sacrifice him this early? I should be writing a thesis proposal, but I think I'll have to put together an analysis of Pitch first... :rolleyes:

[skip spence]

...she is in the game toDay anyway.
Okay. So if we don't lynch her today, and she sticks to her word, she'll get mod-fired and quietly leaves the game two Days from now. And if we lynch her today she'll take one player with her, for good or bad. Like a said before, think I'd prefer the former alternative. More fun if anything else.

Should return soonish with some thought on the voting toDay and yesterDay.

[skip spence]

Actually I've a statement to make:

I am the real hunter.










EDIT: How's that for post 1000? ;)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Back again, few comments on people in order of appearance...

Nessa is at least not very contributive. And the random post about Cobbler (209) was in relation to what exactly?

And there is one person I became worried of when I saw the opening of his post toDay: Skip. And that made me recall that his posts close to the end of yesterDay seemed in some way awkward to me too. All the general talk of the "crowd", basically listing a list of names from whom people could pick to lynch someone, supporting that way general suspicion would be totally Wolvish thing to do. If there is anything that does not fit into the "I will suspect the people whom majority might suspect and go with the flow" scheme, it is funnily enough his suspicion of me.

But just looking at the post overall, from the greeting (which was the first thing that caught my attention) through what I have mentioned above:
Good Day (if you can call it good and day)
(...)
Personally I missed that cobbler-hint thingie yesterDay but reading back I get the impression a few of her voters went for her because of that (Wilwa, Agan, Lommy?). Or with that as a pretext. Obviously it would be interesting to find out if there was a werewolf (or wolves?) among the crowd who was in apparent danger of getting lynched. By the crowd I mean Pitch, Lottie, Nessa and Inzil.

Here I think Nessa looks objectively the worst but I also share Mac's concern about a lupine stitch-up, what with the killing of Oz, who I was also surprised to see killed. A set-up for an easy lynch might might be the explanation. Or that Nessa is a frightened wolf. Or neither. :confused:
(...)
Inzil is shrewd and could of course alter his playing style to suit a particular game. If his ww behaviour was that predictable I wouldn't fear him at all. But I do. Nothing very worrying about Inzil at present though.

Today, and spontaneously, I feel good about Pitch, Rikae and Mac. They all make sense and seem helpful. Though I must question the premiss that making sense is a good sign of innocence.

Getting slightly worried about Legate. Not convinced of Nessa's good intentions either. She was a bit twitchy yesterDay. Also worried about wolves hiding in the crowd. This is such a large village one tends to forget completely about those who rarely comment (and lacks name recognition). Wouldn't be surprised to find at least two among the submarines. But it's always hard to vote for a someone you have no info on.
For instance: The words about Inzil are again the "I don't suspect him - NOW - but he IS dangerous, YOU should lynch him".

And the end - the last four sentences about the Wolves hiding in the crowd - sounds so disgustingly alibistic...

I'm more concerned about Legate. He seemed to pooh-pooh the confusion around me with "if she was evil she would've dropped more obvious hints!" Legate should realise no real hinting could take place yesterday anyway, so I don't get why he thinks I would've been more direct as a baddie. Basically he says I'm innocent because I didn't do something I wouldn't even have been able to do.
"No real hinting"? Why not? "More direct"? Oh yes, you could have been: you could have done the thing you later rebuked Sally for. That's EXACTLY what I had in mind when saying that you did not drop any direct hint. For that matter, I also didn't say I think you are innocent. It did not make me suspect you, and that's a huge difference, as you can surely understand.

I can't remember right off who voted for her, but I'm actually inclined not to think so. Would the wolves risk voting for someone who basically said "the cobbler will suggest herself first"?

Good question. You know, your sharp observations in this post about what the Wolves would think about the Cobbler and so on are actually so sharp that I am starting to think that you have been thinking about it a great deal yourself in your quest to find an ally.

And now the last thing, speaking of the Hunter: so it seems that Kit cannot come back after all? Like, not at all?

I hope she could pop up - and basically what I said above would be the best solution... But if not, then perhaps it will be the best to just leave it be and eventually have her modfired. Because it does not make any difference, in that case, whether we lynch her or let her modfired - or even worse, actually, if we don't know whom she hunts, lynching her will be like choosing a totally random kill.

EDIT: x-ed since Nogrod. NOW WHAT THE???? SKIP????

[Inziladun]

Really, skip? So what does that mean: Kit's trying to get us to waste a lynch on her, instead of getting modfired? I'm not sure that I buy it. How about we lynch you, and you then hunt Kit? That would take care of the question. :rolleyes:

[Aganzir]

I don't want Kit lynched toDay. I can't see it coming out well for this confused a village. Distraction? The whole thing is, actually.
I don't want her lynched today either, but it's a bit of a stretch to question if she actually is the hunter.

That aside, are you saying you did it for reactions? Why, then, is Wilwa suspicious for seeing your plan for what it was (and why, for that matter, am I not? I had the same reaction as Wilwa).
Yes and no. Fishing for reactions wasn't in my plans until I realised how easy it was in this particular situation.
The thing with wilwa is, she spoke like twice about how I put sally's cobbler point into the spotlight. If I'm innocent and someone who's behaved cobblerish goes and underlines a statement that basically says "the cobbler might send her own name tonight," I'd think "Ah-ha! You got caught! Lynch!" while wilwa hasn't really suspected me because of it. Not that I mind (because I actually am innocent :p), but it looks a bit too careful to my liking.

I feel as though you're waiting more for consensus than for evil to show itself, which makes me uneasy.
What do you mean?

Actually I've a statement to make:

I am the real hunter.
:D:D

[Shastanis Althreduin]

That's not to say that Zil's post didn't make me paranoid about him instantly, quite the opposite. Someone who starts the Day with first post saying "both the kills have something to do with me" is either insane or weird. Of course, it can be just stating the obvious of an Ordo who is just stating facts, and in fact, that's what innocents often do, as they have no calculativeness behind their statements. They often end up lynched for that as well. Nonetheless, paranoid it makes me, but I am not going to put any weight to it, just because of what I have said just now.
I don't like this. Legate goes out of his way to say how suspicious Inzil's first post makes him, and finishes with "I suspect him but I don't really".

Did she? I didn't even see that, but if she did, it's not as if it was her idea. Mac-cobbler did that in a game I think she was in as well as several others here. Hmm.
I did that myself, in the game of epic-cobbler-fail. So it's not as if it's unusual. I'm not sure how Wilwa's defense of her vote strikes me - the tone seems innocent enough, but I can't help but wonder if Wilwa is deflecting attention from the Sally-wagon for some reason.

Legate's #174... something strikes me as 'off' there. I'm not sure what, exactly, but it's the part about "well this is why I suspected Lottie yesterday, but I don't suspect her anymore" when he doesn't go on to explain exactly why, just referencing 'her later posts'.

I've never played a game with Cailin by herself, I don't think, but as of #178 I adore her!

So, Wilwa not mentioning the fact that Sally mentioned the possible cobbler-hinting, lest the cobbler notice.
Looks very shiny toDay, but I wonder why she wouldn't do her best to get Sally lynched if she thought it was such a good case against her, in favor of trying to hide something already in the open. Hers was the first vote for Sally, after all.
Rikae raises a good point here, I think.

Re: Pitch's #183 - Why would a Nessa Wolfrunya be hinting at a Seer-Rikae in the first place? I don't understand it.

Mac worries me because he's been unnaturally passive, for him.
I don't think Mac's been passive at all, actually - in my opinion he's been one of the louder voices.

Re: Kitanna's #195 - oy gevalt. :(

Sally was not a very likely lynch until very late, so if a wolf was on the line, I'm sure a better person to vote for could have been found.
I'm not sure I agree with you. That Sallywagon sprang up awfully late in the day, to be purely-innocent driven.

Maybe I'm paranoid, but this sounds like an attempt to cover up the fact that a fellow wolf was in the running yesterDay, too.
I disagree. Eomer is rather emphatic and callous normally - I think this is probably just a playstyle reference. :p

Pitch has a nickname that seems stuck with him forever, Mr. Agreeable, and this usually gets him suspected early and often. With the unexplained uneasy feelings and Pitch being agreeable, I saw the same thing happening yesterday. Maybe he is a wolf, but I'm not his companion.
Hum. After Mac's post calling him out for defending PItch yesterday, all this looks like to me is damage-control distancing.

And, there is one thing I really don't like: I am starting to suspect Inzil. A bit, but anyway. Which is horrible, thinking that in such a case it would be, what, the fifth time in a row he was a Wolf? But maybe I haven't seen him "normal" for such a long time that... well, never mind. I am not going to continue on that just now, I am merely wary about him.
So, wait, let me get this straight. First you're "paranoid" about Inzil, but then you won't "put any weight to it", but now you're "starting to suspect" him, but wait, no, you're just "merely wary"? Just for clarification. ;)

I've seen this sentiment elsewhere and I don't like it. Inzil is shrewd and could of course alter his playing style to suit a particular game.
Cailin made this point softly earlier, too. I just want to go on record that I agree with the general statement.

Exactly, that made me raise my eyebrows too. Besides, Zil said that mere three minutes after Nog's post. So either he has excellent memory and quick brains, he's a super fast checker (and thinker) or he actually knew the kill before the DL. Very fishy, I think.
Hum. This is... a good point, actually. Could it be this simple?

She has definitely done little to make her look innocent.
I'm not sure about this statement (regarding Nessa). Having to 'make oneself look innocent' implies that one is not in fact innocent - otherwise why make yourself look like something that you already are? Does this mean you suspect Nessa, Cailin?

Regarding Skip and his hunter claim - I don't buy it. I think he was just looking for an epic 1000th post.

Regarding Kitanna - I'm going to voice an idea no one seems to have come up with yet - given that there are currently five baddies and two kills a night, it doesn't really seem fair to the village to handicap them due to inactivity. I personally think the fair thing to do would be to redistribute Kitanna's role. *shrug*

[Aganzir]

Hey people, skip is referring to a fake hunter reveal he once did as an ordo, so no need to get worried. At least that's what I think. :p

[skip spence]

haha, relax people, just a joke, I'm not the hunter. :D

For those who didn't play in Lommy's game a few months back, I falsely and foolishly claimed to be the hunter in that game.

[Inziladun]

haha, relax people, just a joke! :D

For those who didn't play in Lommy's game a few months back, I falsely and foolishly claimed to be the hunter in that game.

Oh, I well remember that! Don't be difficult, though. As I recall, that didn't turn out so well for the good side.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Actually I've a statement to make:

I am the real hunter.

Okay, so here goes? Well... actually, it makes a lot more sense now. (Originally, I was tempted to also write into my previous post the quote of you saying that we should just leave Kitanna be, which at that time seemed like undermining the Hunter's work and making sure she does not get a chance to hit...)

But now I can't see you saying that you are the Hunter if you are a Wolf, that would be suicide. And aside from that, after Kit is modfired, if it turns out she was the Hunter, we'll know that we can lynch you. So I trust you now. I think it now makes sense that Kit as a Wolf could no longer play and thus tried to apologize to her mates for leaving them... (although why did she pick to reveal as the Hunter and not the Seer?) Anyway, therefore, here goes my starting suspicion. But good. As for you, skip, well, at least hope you will remain as a nuisance for the WWs. If you are careful about picking your kills, try to keep them somewhat obscure and such, then the WWs will fear to kill you and thus you could stay around as a known innocent (after Kit is gone)...

For that matter, now thinking about that, what to do with Kit, then? Since if she is a Wolf, then if we don't lynch her, the WWs will still have two kills. So in fact, it might be the best to lynch her now. What do ye say?

EDIT: x-ed with the bunch and certain silly person. Skip! One more joke like that and I will seriously lynch you!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

haha, relax people, just a joke, I'm not the hunter. :D

For those who didn't play in Lommy's game a few months back, I falsely and foolishly claimed to be the hunter in that game.

Now I actually think I have been in that game, but it didn't occur to me. Honestly, you've got to be crazy!!! We have enough problems as it is. I almost voted Kit actually at the close of my post. So!!!

Therefore, scratch all that I have said in my previous post. So Kit is the Hunter, we should decide what to do with her, and skip, now I wonder if you would dare to joke like this as a Wolf. But right now... bleagh!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I don't like this. Legate goes out of his way to say how suspicious Inzil's first post makes him, and finishes with "I suspect him but I don't really".

(...)

So, wait, let me get this straight. First you're "paranoid" about Inzil, but then you won't "put any weight to it", but now you're "starting to suspect" him, but wait, no, you're just "merely wary"? Just for clarification. ;)

Basically, you are quite right with the second part: that is a good summarisation. I didn't say that I was suspicious, as you put it in the first part, I was "paranoid", as you correctly state in the latter. Not putting any weight to it, and recently, growing more wary of him. Nothing complicated, really. It is not both parts of the same process, they have been two unrelated instances, his first post to which I was paranoid, and then later I realised I'm starting becoming suspicious of him. Simple as that.

And sorry for triple-posting, but blame the person up there.

[Blind Guardian]

[unaccountable!]Blind Guardian; #47(1i) offers no reason for his absence and says due to this absence he will not vote. While Day 2, #181(2i) #187(2ii) expresses delight at survival and math reasoning for the ‘easy lynch’.



Sorry, I didn't realize I didn't explain myself. It was a very busy day here. I had a lot of scrubbing to do and still have more to do. Had to take the dog for a walk, went shopping waaayyyy in Phoenix. Later today I have to paint a ceiling and finish some walls and finish cleaning those shelves.

I was just putting in my point of view, which if you have played with me before, gets me lynched, 'cause everything I say sounds insane. Maybe I am crazy a little. And yes it is a miracle at surviving day 1, for me.

[wilwarin538]

For those who didn't play in Lommy's game a few months back, I falsely and foolishly claimed to be the hunter in that game.

Oh please don't remind me, trying to figure out whether I should come forward (as the real hunter) was so stressful, and then we lost because I went and trusted evil!Boro and evil!Nog, and revealed! Yes, I still hold a grudge. :p


I'm afraid I won't be able to come back after this post. I couldn't get on during my first two classes, and know for sure I won't be able to for my last (which starts very soon), and I have to go straight to work immediately after class, where I have no internet. So toDay sucks for me, I apologise. For the next week the Days fall on the days I don't have school, so this should be my only bad Day for participation.


Anyway, I've just lightly skimmed. I believe Kit, cause there is rarely ever a reason for someone to claim hunter when they aren't (though there are exceptions *cough*skip*cough*), and though I'm strongly against Hunter reveals, this one is understandable since she can't play anymore. Obviously lynching her would be a waste, she'll be modkilled soon enough so I say we don't worry about it.

And Agan, I did think you were too obvious to be the Cobbler, but then you drew attention to Sally's thing and that would be a smart thing for the Cobbler to do (make it seem innocent, like you're just suspicious of Sally and trying to bring her down, but really letting the wolves know that you've seen it and are planning to go through with it). I know some people think that for it to work the Cobbler would have to leave a hint, but I don't think that's necessarily true. If enough attention was brought to that plan then the Cobbler and Wolves may have just assumed that the other was thinking of doing it. And mentioning it at the very end of the Day when it's intense and someone is being lynched, that brings a lot of attention to it.

Guh, I have to go. How bad would it be for me not to vote? Cause I don't have time to read thoroughly and make an educated decision, and Agan isn't really an option since I'm more confused, rather than suspicious, about her, and really just that one post of hers looks really bad to me, otherwise she seems normal-ish. So, I won't. Sorry, I just wouldn't know who to go for, too much to read in the 5 minutes before I have to leave. Good luck!

[skip spence]

EDIT: x-ed with the bunch and certain silly person. Skip! One more joke like that and I will seriously lynch you!
Hehe, I'm sorry buddy, but I just couldn't resist (and now with the image of Legate spitting out his tea all over the keyboard in my head I can't regret it :p) . Surely the lovely Wilwa will appreciate the joke at least. ;)

But on to serious business...

EDIT: And there she is, again, I'm sorry luv! ;)

[Aganzir]

"No real hinting"? Why not? "More direct"? Oh yes, you could have been: you could have done the thing you later rebuked Sally for. That's EXACTLY what I had in mind when saying that you did not drop any direct hint. For that matter, I also didn't say I think you are innocent. It did not make me suspect you, and that's a huge difference, as you can surely understand.
No real hinting because the baddies didn't yet have any information that we don't. And I suppose that's fair enough, although I would never ever had said so, regardless of my role (innocent me doesn't want to give the baddies ideas while an evil me doesn't want the attention).

Good question. You know, your sharp observations in this post about what the Wolves would think about the Cobbler and so on are actually so sharp that I am starting to think that you have been thinking about it a great deal yourself in your quest to find an ally.
Ahaha! Like, what? :D Seriously though, I love that comment. It just proves what I always knew: I think like a wolf.

I'm not sure I agree with you. That Sallywagon sprang up awfully late in the day, to be purely-innocent driven.
And why would the wolves encourage lynching someone who just said something more helpful to them than anything else that had been said? Could they really afford it? Personally, I think there was a better reason to lynch sally than Pitch, Nessa or Zil anyway. If you think there was a wolf involved, give some more reasoning. It's way too easy to just randomly cast suspicion on a group of people like that.

Legate's confusion about the skip-hunter issue actually makes me feel a lot better about him. :p It looks genuine.

By the way Boro, I just remembered I also had a dream Folwren and I went into a national park in America. There were lots of absolutely gorgeous tigers, and suddenly one of them killed a screaming woman after a (very) brief chase. It bit her head off.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hehe, I'm sorry buddy, but I just couldn't resist (and now with the image of Legate spitting out his tea all over the keyboard in my head I can't regret it :p) . Surely the lovely Wilwa will appreciate the joke at least. ;)

Fortunately, I had no tea at that time, otherwise there'll be more for you to answer to me about! But fortunately, I have cooled down already. Well, a bit. Now in fact I am wondering if that made you lucky, because I would really find it unusual for a Wolf to make deliberately a thing like that a joke. Otherwise, I might have probably voted you. Okay, now in that case, however, there is the question whom should I vote... I need to take a look at people, there are still quite many of us. Shall be back later.

EDIT: x-ed with Agan

[Blind Guardian]

I have to go now so I am going to vote.

Reason: Since yesterday I haven't felt really good with nessa since yesterday, more of a feeling that is hard to explain...
She seems to have to much confidence in herself.


++Nessa

[Valier]

sorry again for not been overly talkative, I've been up all night with my grumpy little Maiar.
Ok so I should be available for some back and forth today. I'm gunna try and reread the 2 pages I missed while sleeping. I must say though I have this sinking feeling that Skip just may be a wolf and Also something is going on with my wolf radar concerning Legate.....Anywho, I'll be back shortly, with a list of my own.

[Macalaure]

About Kitanna – I’d like to not lynch her toDay and try our own luck instead. She won’t be modfired toDay, so we can think about it again toMorrow. In the meantime, I’d suggest we shouldn’t discuss Kitanna that much, but focus on finding wolves.

About Inzil – as I said, there was no reason for him to be that nervous to make those two kills out of fear. On top of that, there really was no reason for him to be that nervous to post a quick defense right after the deadline. If Inzil is a wolf, he’d be acting like an amateur. Of course, he could be a wolf intentionally acting amateurish to create the impression that Inzil can't be a wolf because if he was a wolf he wouldn’t be so amateurish, but let’s keep it simple.

Exactly, that made me raise my eyebrows too. Besides, Zil said that mere three minutes after Nog's post. So either he has excellent memory and quick brains, he's a super fast checker (and thinker) or he actually knew the kill before the DL. Very fishy, I think.I didn’t suspect Legate, who first pointed it out, but this one looks fishy. Excellent memory and quick brains? No offense to Inzil, but remembering who you were after and who was after you one Day ago is really not that much of a feat.

About Nessa – not exactly a lot of participation… I’m not happy about that, but on the other hand, if I was a wolf who just killed someone who I thought was a seer who dreamt of me, and then it turned out the person was not the seer, I’d be quite nervous. I don’t see that.

Too quick to clear names based on the kills, but that is like him, so not suspicious.You’re less likely to be wrong when you clear someone. ;) Also, as you know, I’m pretty quick to unclear people, too.

That Sallywagon sprang up awfully late in the day, to be purely-innocent driven.

Unlikely. For the wolves, there were plenty of easy options available. (Easier, in fact, since late bandwaggons always get extra scrutiny.) It’s unlikely all bandwaggons other than Sally were wolves-to-be-lynched.

[Loslote]

I've seen this sentiment elsewhere and I don't like it. Inzil is shrewd and could of course alter his playing style to suit a particular game. If his ww behaviour was that predictable I wouldn't fear him at all. But I do. Nothing very worrying about Inzil at present though.

I don't fear him precisely because of that, though. But for some reason you people never listen to me. ;)

Exactly, that made me raise my eyebrows too. Besides, Zil said that mere three minutes after Nog's post. So either he has excellent memory and quick brains, he's a super fast checker (and thinker) or he actually knew the kill before the DL. Very fishy, I think.

This is a good point, but there's another possibility. We all take notice when it concerns ourselves. Kath voted Zil, right? Well, he'd remember that, and take notice when she turned up dead. Same thing with Ozzie. We all have slightly selective memories. Just another option. ;)

Since Kit doesn't seem to think she'll be back, and we don't know if that'll be game-wise or Day-wise, I would suggest lynching her now. It's way early, yes, and there's pretty bad odds, but I, at least, don't have any better ideas for who to vote.

I'll be around for a little bit, but I'll have to vote waaaay before DL, since I'll be away until an hour after DL.

EDIT: xed with Mac

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Unlikely. For the wolves, there were plenty of easy options available. (Easier, in fact, since late bandwaggons always get extra scrutiny.) It’s unlikely all bandwaggons other than Sally were wolves-to-be-lynched.
__________________

Pardon, but I don't believe that's what I said. What I was saying was 'the Sallywagon sprang up very late in the day - it wouldn't surprise me if there was a wolf in the running at the time'. I didn't say 'every person in the running before Sally is a wolf'.

I'll be back with a list.