Mandos Thread: DEAD ONLY! - WW LXXXVI

[Nogrod]

the phantom is starting to speak on Boro not being a wolf... interesting.

I speculated earlier tp would sacrifice himself toDay for the wolves to win. But is he too proud for that after all? Remains to be seen...


But okay. I promised to look at the things from another persective than my theory. Well a decent opportunity has arisen with the revelations. So what if they are true?

Let's look at it from that POV.

Anguirel - ranger
Elron - hunter

the phantom - cobbler (from this I do not back away as I know it)

Leaves:

Boro
Glirdan
Greenie
Nerwen
Sally

So three of the last five would be wolves, the two remaining are either two innocents or an innocent and a cobbler.

Now the wolves will not lynch or Nightkill the hunter - so Elra will live.

The wolves seem not to be driving the "let's send the ranger to Mandos to get some info" -game, at least yet. Which might talk on behalf of Ang being true.

If we have a false reveal to out the real gifted I'd bet Elron more likely as ousting the hunter would be a better deal of the two. Anyway, back to the scenario they speak the truth.

So the wolves need to get one lynched from the two innocents of the last five, or the phantom.

It's hard for me to see Boro as an innocent after him saying the phantom is just a cobbler, but let's lynch him nevertheless. That's wolf-talk - and actually exactly the message the wolves would need to send to him: we know you're the cobbler, now we need to lynch you to get us safely into the Night - where they, thanks to the revelations would now know whom to not try. And it would be a wolf win.

This is no Day for lynching cobblers if the village wishes to face another Day.

But who else but Boro then?

I'll go back check the thread for votes & stuff...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Yeah, Rikae just said her new role is of the same alignment as her previous. It's somewhere in the living thread.


Right, but cobbler/wolf would make sense in this context too, right? Or am I heinously missing something? If I am I blame being sick.

[Nogrod]

I mean it, I really do. I would hate to be seer!Nog right now and having to put up with stubborn people like me.:) Okay, understood, and here we can agree! :D

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I just had this really horrifying image flash through my head that phantom is actually the seer. Can y'all imagine? :rolleyes:

If so, it would suit him perfectly fine to playact being a cobbler, since the wolves would let him live indefinitely.

And if he's not, I think that's where he's headed with his "Boro, where are you? I neeeeeeed you!" thing.

"Dear peons of this game, it is I, the phantom, your Real Seer, and I have come to completely Blow Your Minds with my last minute revelation."

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I just had this really horrifying image flash through my head that phantom is actually the seer. Can y'all imagine? :rolleyes:

If so, it would suit him perfectly fine to playact being a cobbler, since the wolves would let him live indefinitely.

And if he's not, I think that's where he's headed with his "Boro, where are you? I neeeeeeed you!" thing.

"Dear peons of this game, it is I, the phantom, your Real Seer, and I have come to completely Blow Your Minds with my last minute revelation."

I hate it when he does things like that, but you're right, that would totally be him.

[Mithalwen]

It would be rather glorious....

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

One way or another, this game will rank amongst the legends...

[Nogrod]

Have you looked at your posts from someone's point of view who doesn't know your role?The last hours of D2 and the first hour of N3 disregarding, I think I have made perfect sense. And there is a shameful reason for that short period of lapse of self-control - even if it was aided by a quite heavy bandwagon that started already earlier - and had I went to sleep earlier I would most probably have been lynched anyway...

But if you took off that part of the game and just looked at what I have said before and after that... but no, you will not... So I'm not exactly sure if I'd have to say this is my fault afterall (even if I feel like that almost all the time).

Oh bugger, I promised not to delve into this anymore.

Back to work so that I can get to sleep.


Oh, another bugger: so Lommy voted, right? Not sure if that was wise...

[Aganzir]

It's hard for me to see Boro as an innocent after him saying the phantom is just a cobbler, but let's lynch him nevertheless. That's wolf-talk - and actually exactly the message the wolves would need to send to him: we know you're the cobbler, now we need to lynch you to get us safely into the Night - where they, thanks to the revelations would now know whom to not try.
I agree on this. (Regardless of what I think of you, I am going to be civil from now on. :p)

Right, but cobbler/wolf would make sense in this context too, right? Or am I heinously missing something? If I am I blame being sick.
No I don't think so. I'm too lazy to look up the posts or come up with an explanation, just trust me on this. :p

I just had this really horrifying image flash through my head that phantom is actually the seer. Can y'all imagine?

If so, it would suit him perfectly fine to playact being a cobbler, since the wolves would let him live indefinitely.
I thought about that too. It comes down to whether he's selfish enough to possibly harm the village just because he wants to stay alive. I'm more inclined to believe Nog than him though... ;)

I can't speak to Sally's guilt or innocence, but I can tell you it's a better option than any of the gentleman on your list. Of course you may be a Wolf yourself so why would you bother listening, but so long as you don't plan on voting for a fellow I see no need for me to say any more at this time.
Erm what on earth is this about? Is he signalling to a suspected wolf, or is there a meaning I just didn't see?

[Nogrod]

"Dear peons of this game, it is I, the phantom, your Real Seer, and I have come to completely Blow Your Minds with my last minute revelation."That would be legendary indeed.

Sadly it is not that way.

[Rikae]

One way or another, this game will rank amongst the legends...

:D

[Aganzir]

But if you took off that part of the game and just looked at what I have said before and after that... but no, you will not... So I'm not exactly sure if I'd have to say this is my fault afterall (even if I feel like that almost all the time).
I've disagreed with some things you've said even before and after that but it might not be such a big issue if my trust in you hadn't completely crumbled during day 2. So yeah that I can take the blame for because it's just a (very dominating) part of my personality - trust once lost won't come back. (Fortunately we're only speaking in terms of this particular WW game. ;))

Oh, another bugger: so Lommy voted, right? Not sure if that was wise...
I don't know who Angu is going to vote, but at least we can trust it's an honest suspicion.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Legend Option 1) The Seer successfully convinced every member of the village he was evil. The rest of the game was spent with him trying to convince them of his innocence, and them steadfastly ignoring him.

Legend Option 2) A bad guy posed as the Seer and successfully kept up his premise for the whole of the game. The real Seer waited to step forth until basically everybody was already dead.

I'm just going to point out that phanty-pants is over there being all wink-wink nudge-nudge at the declared Gifteds.

[Nogrod]

Erm what on earth is this about? Is he signalling to a suspected wolf, or is there a meaning I just didn't see?I think that's pretty straightworward. Cobbler phantom is convinced that Boro is a wolf and is querying Greenie whether she is as well & in that case signalling to her not to vote for him. Which means tp is to proud to offer himself? That is believable, but might actually make things harder for the wolves.

[Nogrod]

Okay, I'm taking back the last suggestion of my answer: he's not openly suggesting Greenie not to vote for him. The last part of the sentence: "so long as you don't plan on voting for a fellow I see no need for me to say any more at this time" could be just signalling to her "did you get my message on who I am?"

[Nogrod]

As Lommy has now voted already, what do you think is the best option we should take?

I mean I still think that if we have a run-down with a probable wolf and a probable innocent we should interfere if we can - disregarding any "message-sending" if we just can do it.

This game hangs on a thread and toDay might be the last one if we fail. But for that to happen the villagers should be able to get one of the wolves up in the tally and we should be able to use our vote around the DL as the situation demands.

That's why I dislike voting for our extravote too early as it ties the hands of those actually making the final decisions.

So should we spread the vote now as to give the DL voters more space to manouver (had none casted early votes the DL voters could choose anyone)? Kind of a dejá-vu feeling, like I had been arguing for this already yesterDay... :rolleyes:

[Aganzir]

We'll lynch either Shasta, Nog, or Agan.
Just saying that I'll be mighty amused if Nog really is the seer... That makes Lottie a cobbler, right?

Really? I think Mith is about the most innocent-looking person in the village at the moment.
The day after Mith was attacked unsuccessfully. I wonder if this means anything...

Here's a rough summary of which living unknowns (assuming Angu & ed are telling the truth) the living have suspected/defended.

BORO
suspected: Glirdan, phantom
defended: Greenie, Nerwen, sally

SALLY
suspected: Boro

GREEN
suspected: sally, Glirdan
defended: phantom, Nerwen

GLIRDAN
suspected: Boro, phantom
defended: phantom (earlier), Nerwen, sally

PHANTOM
suspected: Greenie (never much and dropped it after day 2), Boro
defended: Nerwen, Boro

NERWEN
suspected: Boro, sally, Green, phantom (the last three mostly during the last two days)

I think it's interesting Boro is on everybody's suspect list except Greenie's. Either he's innocent or the wolves feel the need to have a potentially lynchable fellow.

Sally has mostly gone after players who have turned out innocent (Angu) or are dead (Lottie). I wonder about her Angu attack. Could it be genuine? I'm pretty sure Green and sally aren't wolves together though, she wouldn't have voted for her.

Nerwen hasn't really been defending anyone. Her last three suspects came up relatively late and at least the sally & Green accusations were somewhat wishy-washy - a wolf storing up possible lynching candidates? She's been very sneaky and I can definitely see her as a wolf.

[Aganzir]

So should we spread the vote now as to give the DL voters more space to manouver (had none casted early votes the DL voters could choose anyone)? Kind of a dejá-vu feeling, like I had been arguing for this already yesterDay... :rolleyes:
The wolves know Nessa was not one. Therefore they know either Green, Nerwen, phantom or Angu is getting the vote, and they're probably counting on it being Angu (at least after his revelation). I'm assuming they're holding their votes till he has voted (if possible) and placing them so that the lynch benefits them. Maybe a double lynch unless the runner-up is a wolf...

This is more to clear my head than anything else...

D5: 3-5 (+ they lynch a wolf, kill an ordo)
D6: 2-4 (+ they lynch a wolf, kill an ordo)
D7: 1-3

D5: 3-5 (+ they lynch a wolf, kill an ordo)
D6: 2-4 (+ they lynch an ordo, kill an ordo)
D7: 2-2

D5: 3-5 (+ they lynch a wolf, kill Angu)
D6: 2-4 (+ they lynch a wolf, kill an ordo)
D7: 1-4

D5: 3-5 (+ they lynch a wolf, ranger save)
D6: 2-5 (+ they lynch a wolf, kill an ordo)
D7: 1-4 (+ they lynch an ordo, kill an ordo)
D8: 1-2 (except if Angu was killed it's 1-3)

It isn't looking too bright. While lynching a wolf is most important, if they manage to do it today but get a false message from us they're in trouble tomorrow (because they think they can afford to lynch a cobbler, or try this suspicious person, etc). That would basically give the wolves the upper hand (because regardless of how few players are left, the wolves are going to push the idea of us sending them messages and not stopping just because we're worried about the situation).

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

If it helps, my last defense of Boro (here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=648769&postcount=701)), while accurate, is only part of the point. The other pressing point is contained within the first paragraph, with special emphasis on the final sentence.

He's quoting this:

Ah, a Boro vote, and a Daughter reveal, eh? Things are really starting now. Taking sides and whatnot... I do believe I'll give it some time before addressing all angles of this. But for now, since Boro got a vote, I will say that there is an important aspect of Boro's behavior we should not ignore, which would be his desire to kill me.

Makes it sound like he's hinting that he's the Seer, and that he's dreamed of Boro, who's the Hunter. And that while Boro is innocent, he's all misguided and whatnot.

Obviously, being innocent, I'd like to see the good guys pull off a sweeping victory. But regardless of my role, this is amusingly fascinating to watch...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

PS, in case it wasn't clear, all of that phantom stuff adds up to insinuate that Elron is a lying liar who lies a lot.

[Aganzir]

Makes it sound like he's hinting that he's the Seer, and that he's dreamed of Boro, who's the Hunter. And that while Boro is innocent, he's all misguided and whatnot.

Obviously, being innocent, I'd like to see the good guys pull off a sweeping victory. But regardless of my role, this is amusingly fascinating to watch...
Yeah, it does. Too bad for him Boro said he won't be back today (at least that's how I interpreted it).

Either he's actually the seer, or he's trying to make Angu protect him so the wolves (Boro probably being one in this scenario) can kill him without trouble.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Yeah, it does. Too bad for him Boro said he won't be back today (at least that's how I interpreted it).

He won't be back until tomorrow evening. I know what he's doing, and it doesn't involve internet access.

Either he's actually the seer, or he's trying to make Angu protect him so the wolves (Boro probably being one in this scenario) can kill him without trouble.

Yep. Glad I don't have to do anything about it but watch. :)

[Aganzir]

OK Boro and phantom, I think we're quite close to being able to three musketeer this thing out
Huh. Scary. Especially if I didn't know he was Glorfy... but even now, given that we don't know what phantom is up to.

(See Nog, I don't trust him either if it's of any comfort. :p)

If Angu is gunning for Greenie, I'm even more tempted to give the extra vote to him.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Given that Ang is the only living person I trust right now... I think I'm fine with the vote going to him. What does that tell the living, though?

[Nogrod]

Did you look also as what kind of suspicions they were on Boro, on what kind of a situation, and did they turn into votes?

I mean you can just say "X looks fishy" in a point when it is of no consequence or you can push to lynch him adding a full-out case against him when he is already under heavy scrutiny...

I mean I still think Boro is a wolf.

Glirdy's vote for Boro makes Glirdy look better now as the wolves would not make wolf-on-wolves on such a Day. Also as one who played two games in a row with him as a wolf, I remember him managing to get me lynched both times prematurely by backing me too enthusiastically while making cardinal errors himself... This time he seems not too nervous and his greatest involvement in defending someone I think was for innocent Wilwa.

If those two are correct, then from the shortlist of Greenie, Sally & Nerwen two would have to be wolves. Interestingly enough there is also one vote cast between those three, namely Greenie's vote for Sally.

So Boro, Greenie & Nerwen as the wolves?

And whatever the scenario, Greenie's vote for Sally kind of makes Nerwen a wolf (no wolf-on wolves toDay) by default.

I'm not too confident about that but I do think it earns a notification as a possibility.


Why not confident?

I could be wrong with Glirdy to be sure. but there is also another matter.

That is: I wouldn't rule out at least one fake revelation. Basically I'm thinking of this: Elra - Believing her claim for now. I'm still unsure of whether there is any sense in Hunter reveals in general, but she's certainly off the hook - and in a game of this sort (or any sort) fake-revealing as the hunter is not really a smart move anyway.I do agree here with Greenie that revealing as the hunter isn't kind of what the hunters are there for - disregarding certain special situations where it might be a good idea (which this certainly isn't!!!). But it might go both ways.

Elron is a relatively new player to the game and might not just see why it would be instrumental at this point for the hunter to stay hidden and hope to get killed having a decent chance to get a wolf with her.

But it is also possible that, after looking at the amount of suspicion and votes coming her way lately that she had been instructed by her seniors to fake-reveal as no seasoned hunter woud then counter-reveal to expose her/himself - and thus she would duck the gallows toDay. And toDay is what matters to the wolves.


Also I see you seem to trust Anguirel without a question made. If you look at my earlier post about Ang (not only the one saying Ang is a wolf, but especially the earlier one where I tried to make sense of his posting earlier toDay), you can see why I do not buy it without reservations. He might be true for sure, especially if he thought the innocents have already bagged a wolf (although even then his maths would suck - which he pre-emptively said :) - and make his move a bit reckless one, which I'm not used to see from Ang).

But with him the question really arises, wold the real ranger stood back in silence? That's a hard one. It's more or less clear the real hunter would have lad low if someone fake-revealed at this kind of a situation, but with the ranger it's not that clear.

Ahh... I see lots of posting going on. Reading then.


PS. Is your 'Downs working really slow? Mine is...

[Aganzir]

That Nessa was not a wolf.

But if you're feeling well enough to hang here till the deadline, that would be super. I have a feeling phantom might just be leading Angu by the nose to vote for someone he shouldn't...

[Aganzir]

So Boro, Greenie & Nerwen as the wolves?
I could definitely see that. I could also see Boro, sally & Nerwen, but Greenie more than that.

But it is also possible that, after looking at the amount of suspicion and votes coming her way lately that she had been instructed by her seniors to fake-reveal as no seasoned hunter woud then counter-reveal to expose her/himself - and thus she would duck the gallows toDay. And toDay is what matters to the wolves.
Yeah, what if Boro is the real hunter? :D

I wouldn't be too worried about that now though. I mean even though it's possible, we gain more by lynching someone who hasn't revealed. I'd prefer Nerwen because I feel the worst about her, but Greenie and Boro are options too, or sally. It all depends on how the voting goes (even though I'm not planning to hang out here till the deadline).

PS. Is your 'Downs working really slow? Mine is...
Nope. Go to Hádanka. :p

[Nogrod]

OK Boro and phantom, I think we're quite close to being able to three musketeer this thing outHuh. Scary. Especially if I didn't know he was Glorfy... but even now, given that we don't know what phantom is up to.

(See Nog, I don't trust him either if it's of any comfort. :p)Uh-oh.

See this as well - as he is clearly addressing the phantom all the time... Among these either two or three are gulity:

Nerwen
A Little Green
sallySo the final instructions for tp / correcting him on Greenie?

I don't like it at all. Check my early post on Anguirel toDay and think of what I said in there. And him calling the hunter out after that. Please. It might be the key to this?

[Aganzir]

Uh-oh.

See this as well - as he is clearly addressing the phantom all the time... So the final instructions for tp / correcting him on Greenie?
I was actually thinking about phantom when saying 'I don't trust him' (yeah I'm being unclear, sorry!)... But it's still weird an innocent should ask the hunter to reveal, although what I said about getting known innocents stands.

I think Angu's quote meant more like 'Good ol' boy, I know you're the seer and have dreamed of Boro, let's win this now!'

[Nogrod]

If someone held a revolver on my forehead and demanded for a take on the wolves I'd probably say Ang, Boro and Nerwen... (or Elra swopping places with Nerwen as Ang did protect Elron quite boldly earlier).

Well, Ang and Boro anyway? This just looks too much like
a) trying to out the gifteds (and then revealing as one)
b) hinting to the phantom quite openly (different strategies though, but Boro had to leave early - thus the correcting moves by Ang and all the questioning by tp).

Just check this: I'm sorry if I'm being unByzantine here, phantom. I'm alright at lying, and I absolutely love the strategy of actively second guessing nocturnal amusement, but I am useless at cryptography. Actually had to take an exam in it a few months back. Worst candidate they'd had for yearsWhat else is this but trying to tell the phantom that "I'm now straight-talking to you"? No veils, no foolery: "come with us on this and we'll win..." See even the first bolded part. It is a straight call to the phantom and the phantom only. "I'm addressing you here..."

[Nogrod]

I think Angu's quote meant more like 'Good ol' boy, I know you're the seer and have dreamed of Boro, let's win this now!'Hmm... that is a possibility. Although it's hard for me to see anyone looking at tp as the seer... and taking in al the other things Ang has done I must say I'm leaning towards the interpretation I made in my previous post.

[Aganzir]

Just check this: What else is this but trying to tell the phantom that "I'm now straight-talking to you"? No veils, no foolery: "come with us on this and we'll win..." See even the first bolded part. It is a straight call to the phantom and the phantom only. "I'm addressing you here..."
Or 'Hey seer, what are you trying to suggest?' If Ang, Boro & Nerwen are the wolves, your point about Angu trying to hint at the phantom about the wolves' identity is invalid.

I'm not sure I like Nog sowing doubt about the gifteds... Because yes I still trust Angu, and ed.

[Nogrod]

Explain this exchange to me in other terms than Ang being a wolf with Boro: it's kind of late, what can I say. I'm sure the wolves know what you're into

You seem to want to scrutinise Boro, probs to the point of death, without exactly saying as much. Could you do me a favour and put that plan on hold? I want to lynch somebody really helpful and pleasant instead.:eek:

Answered by tp: No, no- I don't want to kill Boro! That's probably the worst tactical move we could possibly make.Agreement reached? :(

[Nogrod]

I do like being right, but I hate being right when there's little you can do with it... :(

[Aganzir]

'Why did you wait till now and are speaking in code? As if the wolves wouldn't realise what you're doing...'
I don't know about the second sentence though.
And phantom's response: 'Yeah Boro is the hunter and probably hunting me, stay clear of him!'

[Mithalwen]

I am very touched that Milord Anguirel is making my social life his top priority... such a thoughtful chap.... :cool: And I trust him . The timing explains why he didn't protect Fea.

[Nogrod]

'Why did you wait till now and are speaking in code? As if the wolves wouldn't realise what you're doing...'
I don't know about the second sentence though.
And phantom's response: 'Yeah Boro is the hunter and probably hunting me, stay clear of him!'Where is that and what does it relate to? I tried to refresh the page but couldn't find that...

[Nogrod]

Mith: read #283 and tell me how that is written by an innocent Ang...

[Aganzir]

Where is that and what does it relate to? I tried to refresh the page but couldn't find that...
Sorry, that was just me paraphrasing Angu & phantom's exchange that you quoted. I should probably go to sleep. :p

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

If someone held a revolver on my forehead and demanded for a take on the wolves I'd probably say Ang, Boro and Nerwen... (or Elra swopping places with Nerwen as Ang did protect Elron quite boldly earlier).

The thing is, I've spent literally the entire game trusting Ang and Boro. And if I'm that intensely wrong, it'll be the first time I've misread either of them that problematically. I mean, I've never been wrong about either of them. So I'm inclined to keep trusting them. It's not like it's to my detriment to be mistaken... I'm already dead.

[Aganzir]

Boro - phantom
Glirdan - Boro
Green - sally

Left: Angu, Nerwen, phantom, ed, sally

If both Boro, Glirdan and Greenie are innocent, the wolves have almost certainly won. They and the cobbler(s) can just jump on one of the bandwagons. Maybe orchestrate a double-lynch or something.

[Aganzir]

I must say I'm not overly fond of Angu asking ed who she's going to hunt... Lie, girl! Just to be on the safe side!

[Nogrod]

*Enter a reasonable villager who rallies the other to vote for Boro!*

Just a daydream I'm afraid.


Okay, looking back it could as well be Boro, Ang and Sally (thus the suggestion of getting rid of Greenie and defending Sally mildly).

Elron might be the real hunter then, just to inexperienced to be drawn in with the example of a senior? Exactly the thing the wolves wished to know.

Okay. Let's see.

Boro -> tp
Glirdy -> Boro
Greenie -> Sally

So those who have till votes are:

Ang (I say a wolf)
phantom (cobbler clearly in agreement with Ang)

These two can give two votes to anyone they see fit and will probably vote in concerto, esecially if needed.

That leaves us

Elron - a game changer? Sadly no I think.
Sally - could se something but hardly the one to go against the overall mood (and could be the third wolf anyway - thus voting with Ang & tp?).

Which leaves Nerwen to fight for us, unless she is the last wolf (Ang suggesting tp lynching her would talk for her innocense though).


So the chance of there being a real contest toDay with the voting - and thus us having a chance to play a role there is pretty thin. It would require both Nerwen being a goodie and having time and energy and eye to this and launching a major attack there - compelling enough for the other innocents to follow.

Wait, it might be there is only Elron as an innocent with a vote left besides Nerwen. If they both voted for Boro he would gather 3 votes.

Hey, that would mean that if Boro is a wolf (1 vote), Sally is a wolf (1 vote) and as tp is the cobbler (1 vote) now friends with Ang, they'd need to pick someone else!

And what Ang said would support that! He was looking for new suspects like Nerwen or Greenie as they'd hate to lose one of those already having votes?

Together Ang, Sally & tp could give 3 votes to someone thus tying it up with Boro/Sally, if Nerwen and Elron both voted for one of them. Great! Our extravote could make a difference there!

Well, now how likely is that? :(


The thing is, I've spent literally the entire game trusting Ang and Boro. And if I'm that intensely wrong, it'll be the first time I've misread either of them that problematically. I mean, I've never been wrong about either of them. So I'm inclined to keep trusting them.Now you both Fea and Mith can't be cobblers... there's only one unknown cobbler left. :)

[Aganzir]

Nah. I think it's more likely Angu is telling the truth. My wolves are Nerwen and Greenie (who have kept a nice distance to each other, just look at their posts they're so conveniently 'hullo I'm a wolf and this is my fellow, I'm not really suspecting her but I want to take a look at her some day, whoops I'm so busy it will have to wait, well never mind!'), and probably Boro.

I think phantom is a cobbler who has pegged Boro as a wolf and is now trying to make the innocents believe he's the seer.

But if both he and Nog are cobblers, where's the real seer? :confused: :p

[Aganzir]

Whoops well now there's stuff going on.

[Mithalwen]

Mith: read #283 and tell me how that is written by an innocent Ang...

Well it isn't . It is written by an innocent Aganzir.

[Nogrod]

IF ANG IS NOT A WOLF I WILL EAT A HAT IN A LIVESTREAM PERFORMACE IN THE INTERNET!

That is so bad!

And looking at how Elron goes we might forget her helping us as she is just stargazing there...

*headdesk*

That's it then.


The ranger is our only hope fr one more Day - unless she gets lynched toDay.

[Aganzir]

Well it isn't . It is written by an innocent Aganzir.
I think he was talking about his own post in this thread.

This is hilarious (or would be if so much didn't depend on it). Phantom's reveal doesn't look any more innocent than Nog's...

Nerwen? Sally? Anyone? Where's the real seer? :D

[Nogrod]

Nerwen? Sally? Anyone? Where's the real seer? :DHere.

And has been all the time. :mad:

[Mithalwen]

I think he was talking about his own post in this thread.

This is hilarious (or would be if so much didn't depend on it). Phantom's reveal doesn't look any more innocent than Nog's...

Nerwen? Sally? Anyone? Where's the real seer? :D

The phantom.... I remember him playing like this another time as an innocent. And I still trust Ang because I can't see any of the others saving me,

[Mithalwen]

Sally has to be a wolf doesn't she? She has contributed nothing that I can remember.

[Aganzir]

Here.

And has been all the time. :mad:
I just realised the :mad: smiley looks like the Muskrat (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_X5mTrGOn2UE/SxWHIEPTyKI/AAAAAAAAADk/bI-XzbSfHi4/s320/piisamirotta.gif) from the Moomin books.

The phantom.... I remember him playing like this another time as an innocent. And I still trust Ang because I can't see any of the others saving me,
Me too - he was the hunter and pretended to be the cobbler so that even us wolves believed him. He was lynched towards the end of the game and he took one of us with him. That time it was more like 'You know I'd save you, !' while in this game he's been making points that are simply [I]wrong.

And given how innocent you looked, I'm not surprised you were attacked. I could have protected you, too.

[Nogrod]

I'm very sorry. I was badly mistaken.

I said the seer-revelator would explain he had not much to tell as those he had dreamt of had died already. I didn't realise he could also do this to end the gmae for certain: I wish so badly that I could produce good news about remaining voters (Nerwen and Sally for instance), but instead I only know the innocence of those who have already voted (Glirdan & Boro) and thus I cannot hope to gain their voting assistance.:rolleyes:

And see the pressure they're bringing on poor Elron... They should be ashamed of themselves, grown men!

The most difficult thing for me to discern currently is if Daughter is Cobbler or Wolf. I actually considered holding off on my reveal once she looked likely to go along with me (I had hopes that she was a Cobbler and could be persuaded to vote incorrectly), but the possibility of her being a Wolf I thought was too great to allow the chance of the Dead handing her a double vote.
...
I'm at quite a disadvantage in that regard, especially with Daughter still holding her vote there and the fact that I am suggesting it is likely that there is another Wolf among our remaining voters.

It's your vote today that's of absolutely crucial importance

You didn't listen, now did you? :(

[Aganzir]

You didn't listen, now did you? :(
Hmm he was talking to ed, I think?

[Aganzir]

I should add that, though it means have to swallow some gall for the millionth time today, I currently buy phantom's account more readily than Elra's. You are right, sally, in that lynching Elra does seem to be the best compromise in a way. But is a compromise what we need?
And she will kill phantom who is just a cobbler, and it's 3-3 even before the night starts. No need to worry about the ranger or anything. :rolleyes:

[Nogrod]

Sally has to be a wolf doesn't she? She has contributed nothing that I can remember.Hey Hurray! That's it. But not for the reason you say, but for the reason why they need to pressure Elron right now - to get the fourth vote and thus make sure neither Nerwen or us get in their way with lynching an innocent.

[Mithalwen]

And given how innocent you looked, I'm not surprised you were attacked. I could have protected you, too.

Apart from the not being alive and not being the ranger thing of course ... Do you still have the Snuffkin hat?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

And who saw this coming? I did, I did!

[Mithalwen]

And she will kill phantom who is just a cobbler, and it's 3-3 even before the night starts. No need to worry about the ranger or anything. :rolleyes:

Loslote might be a wolf if Nogrod is lying.

[Nogrod]

You didn't listen, now did you? Hmm he was talking to ed, I think?That was not referring to Ang but as a general comment on you and Mith basically - and all the others through this game... :confused:

And she will kill phantom who is just a cobbler, and it's 3-3 even before the night starts. No need to worry about the ranger or anything.Something interesting developing in the game-thread I presume? *Goes to see*

[Aganzir]

Apart from the not being alive and not being the ranger thing of course ... Do you still have the Snuffkin hat?
Oh yes I have it, it's my favourite winter hat. :cool:

I'm not sure I think sally is a wolf. Green and Nerwen still look worse to me. And I still don't know what to think of Nog, he seems to be changing his wolf suspects by the minute.

[Aganzir]

Loslote might be a wolf if Nogrod is lying.
True but we haven't seen her since... the night she died?

[Nogrod]

Loslote might be a wolf if Nogrod is lying.Try something better... well, actually you can't. We lost the game already.

[Mithalwen]

True but we haven't seen her since... the night she died?

Didn't show a lot while she was alive...

[Nogrod]

And I still don't know what to think of Nog, he seems to be changing his wolf suspects by the minute.The situation has changed by the minute, but I think it's the endgame now and am pretty happy with Ang - Boro - Sally -trio - as I have been for the last hour or something.

I have to check the game-thread though if there is something new now.

[Aganzir]

The situation has changed by the minute, but I think it's the endgame now and am pretty happy with Ang - Boro - Sally -trio - as I have been for the last hour or something.
No I think that's impossible. If Angu wasn't Glorfindel, there would have been a counter-reveal. Yes Nerwen isn't here yet, but he would have risked getting lynched if she was Glorfindel and had countered it. Not worth it for a wolf, given that he hadn't been suspected that much.

I still say Nerwen, Greenie & Boro.

[Mithalwen]

So Ang as the sane person around here this voting ...now fo rthe the double vote and before morning for the woluf -non woluf dead vote?

[Mithalwen]

Yep..managed ot get back and check... getting to the top of threads is taking a n age

[Aganzir]

Yeah now for the double vote.

I won't stay awake for another half an hour so I should probably vote soon... I don't like the fact I don't know what's going to happen. The wolves will probably hold their votes.

[Nogrod]

How do you explain that exchange between Ang and phantom other than Ang being a wolf. Or how he lured Elron to reveal in the first place?

And actually I haven't changed my wolves that much lately. I've had Ang and Boro there for a long time (Boro for a very long time indeed). It's merely a question of the third one I've been changing my mind.

Remember, I know the phantom is a cobbler - and he is doing that now quite beautifuly after the agreement Ang told him to take.


The only thing bothering me now is that I was much more confident half an hour ago. There is something enigmatic going on in there which is either just a very clever plot, wrong third wolf I'm looking at or something. Sadly it's so late I'm not sure how sharp I am right now to spot the exact details where the devil lives...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

If Ang isn't Glorfindel, then who is? I have yet to see a counter reveal.

[Aganzir]

How do you explain that exchange between Ang and phantom other than Ang being a wolf. Or how he lured Elron to reveal in the first place?
I think the more important part is why would he have fake-revealed now. It wasn't necessary. Seriously.

[Nogrod]

The ranger's only chance to give us another Day is a save and thus laying low. (and it would have been for the hunter even more!!!)

But if they manage to organise a double lynch then the ranger can do nothing about it.

[Aganzir]

Also, the dead need to PLEASE SHUT UP. It's far too tempting to go creep on you. >.<
We're trying to warn you. IT'S A TRAP!!!!!!!

[Aganzir]

The ranger's only chance to give us another Day is a save and thus laying low. (and it would have been for the hunter even more!!!)

But if they manage to organise a double lynch then the ranger can do nothing about it.
No, the ranger could have and should have countered a fake reveal. Otherwise she might have been lynched herself as there aren't that many options. I trust Angu.

[Mithalwen]

And we has to vote..

[Aganzir]

Sally's posting makes me feel better about her. If she was a wolf she would know more... or be kind of more aware of what's going on.

Which leads me to wonder about Nog again.

What if phantom is actually telling the truth?

Grr couldn't they just lynch Nerwen or Greenie and be done with it?

[Aganzir]

*shakes head*

Whatever phantom is, he's doing a good job at it.

I'm going to brush my teeth.

[Nogrod]

I think the more important part is why would he have fake-revealed now. It wasn't necessary. Seriously.
If Ang isn't Glorfindel, then who is? I have yet to see a counter reveal.Remember, lynching an innocent toDay (not the hunter!!!) is the thing the wolves crave for. Then it would be one choice the coming Night going right and victory.

I don't know how crafty those wolves are, but they could come up with a false reveal to either flush the real one (being confident they could outspeak the opposing arguments if there was a duel of rangers) or to encourage the feeling that the gifteds should come fore thus luring their most dangerous enemy, the hunter, out in the open...

And really, as the hunter was lured out in the open, the ranger is now our only hope as it seems clear the wolves lynch whomever they wish (like they have done basically everyDay - D2 included). We need the Nightkill barred and it doesn't exactly help if you declare yourself.



It might actually be, that some of the odd-loking gaming over there is now the baddies already readying things for the Night. They are confident enough they can lynch an innocent toDay so they have already started playing against the ranger to make her/him puzzled?

I'm not sure, but the way I see it explains most of the posts made while any other explanation I have come up with falls short by a mile...

[Mithalwen]

*shakes head*

Whatever phantom is, he's doing a good job at it.

I'm going to brush my teeth.

Me too..spooky

[Nogrod]

No, the ranger could have and should have countered a fake reveal.And what would that gain her/him? S/he'd know that the three wolves + one cobbler (at least one) would be on her/him immediately. How could s/he counter 4 votes against her/him?

Just asking.

If the ranger wishes to really try to buy one more Day, s/he needs to barr a kill-attempt.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I don't think I buy Phantom's reveal. I find it incredibly difficult to see Elra of all people faking a Hunter reveal - I don't think she's ever been gifted before, she's rather new, and I just can't see it happening.

Unless Phantom's pulling a bluff of some kind - make Boro the Wolf/Cobbler think that Phantom is a Cobbler while Phantom really is the Seer who's dreamt of Boro - which could be why Phantom isn't pushing an Elra lynch as much.

[Loslote]

I'm not here. I'm disapearing until Sunday in about ten minutes. But I thought I may as well comment while I could.

I do not trust tp's reveal. Why would the Seer dream of Glirdan? Surely tp knows how easy it is to spot a Glirdwolf. :rolleyes:

I don't think I'm going to vote. I don't have the time to look over either thread carefully, and there's too much at stake to vote randomly.

EDIT: xed with a Mith, a Nog, and a Shasta

[Shastanis Althreduin]

We're trying to warn you. IT'S A TRAP!!!!!!!

THIS THIS THIS!

[Mithalwen]

Nerwen is in for an interesting hour...

[Aganzir]

And what would that gain her/him? S/he'd know that the three wolves + one cobbler (at least one) would be on her/him immediately. How could s/he counter 4 votes against her/him?

Just asking.

If the ranger wishes to really try to buy one more Day, s/he needs to barr a kill-attempt.
Three people had already left.


I do not trust tp's reveal. Why would the Seer dream of Glirdan? Surely tp knows how easy it is to spot a Glirdwolf. :rolleyes:
Ahaha! :D

[Aganzir]

DON'T PROTECT HIM, ANGUIREL!!!!

YES, YES, LYNCH GREENIE! SHE DESERVES IT!

[Aganzir]

I agree that Daughter is a good compromise candidate (for those who doubt my claim), but of course the primary problem with that from my perspective is I know she's false and it seems to me that she's a more likely Cobbler than Wolf.
From my perspective I'm pretty sure she's true and it seems to me that she's more likely going to target a baddie than an innocent.

It would require a unified Ang, Nerwen, and Phantom with the aid of the extra Dead vote. How likely is it that one of us holds the extra vote?
YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT.

Green is the other good compromise besides Daughter since she has already voted, however she is the one I least suspect of the girls. Bleh.
Because she's the most suspicious girl?

IF we only have two WWs left here, then there would be enough of us to vote down a Wolf if I caught one,
So now we're getting to this.

Nog I probably gotta believe you. Even you have made more sense than him. :rolleyes: :p

[Aganzir]

THE LIVING VOTES
Boro - phantom
Glirdan - Boro
Green - sally

THE DEAD VOTES
Lommy - Anguirel -> ?

Who we should vote for in order not to deliver false information:
A Little Green
Nerwen
the phantom
Anguirel

I don't like the options. But I also don't like what will happen if we make them think Nessa was a wolf.

[Nogrod]

It's been as you know a long time for me but don't lynched hunters kill their last pick? So phantom would go down. That wouldn't be too bad though, after all, as if Elron has the power she claims he is guilty of something.So a double lynch with an innocent and a cobbler = immediate wolf-win!

I do agree tp makes a nice storyline there about his "dreams" (well, what would you except from him if not that?), but see also the nice work with including Ang and Boro - who have been more than hinting to him toDay they're the wolves!

Whatever we do we need to vote together. I agree that Daughter is a good compromise candidate (for those who doubt my claim), but of course the primary problem with that from my perspective is I know she's false and it seems to me that she's a more likely Cobbler than Wolf. A false declaration of Hunterhood from a Wolf pretty well invites the real Hunter to kill him, doesn't it?So that's it then? They want to end it toDay!

the phantom calls for lynching enough people (see the request for if the hunter can change her target), some will suspect his reveal but enough will vote for Elron who gets mad, takes tp with her and end of the game!

And see how he's bringing once more the "consoling possibility" there being only two wolves left! *how I'd love to be there to stand up against their trickery!*

I love Nerwen's defiance!

[Aganzir]

Nog who do you think is the real Glorfindel then if not Angu?

I am voting now because I'm not sure how long I'm going to be here (might as well stay till the deadline but I'm just really tired). I might retract if need be, but this is the way I'd rather the lynch went right now.

++GLIRDAN

THE LIVING VOTES
Boro - phantom
Glirdan - Boro
Green - sally

THE DEAD VOTES
Lommy - Anguirel -> ?
Agan - Glirdan -> Boro

[Nogrod]

I'm afraid it will not be a close run toDay so it might be just "whatever" we vote for.

But if it is going to be tight, I'd suggest Nerwen as she's the only one able to resist the chauvinist-gang doing their tricks with little "girlsies" (like they are messing with Elron). Just see how she bit back to Ang who very confidently tried to charm her by just being this great guy (one more sign of his guilt).

[Aganzir]

Thus, I have a file on my phone called “this chart assumes the legitimacy of Phantom.”
Ahaha! :D:D

(Unless of course Boro turns up and anti-reveals.)
:----D

THE LIVING VOTES
Boro - phantom
Glirdan - Boro
Green - sally
ed - phantom 2

Left: phantom, Angu, Nerwen, sally

THE DEAD VOTES
Lommy - Anguirel -> ?
Agan - Glirdan -> Boro

Hmm.

[Aganzir]

Whoops I just realised I voted for someone who, if getting the double vote, will signal Nessa was a wolf. Not that it probably matters much... I'm afraid we won't have a new day.

[Mithalwen]

That is just Australian woman meets alumnus of Ang's alma mater... lol

[Nogrod]

Nog who do you think is the real Glorfindel then if not Angu?Nerwen would be my first choice. Her sarcasm upon arrival might also tell about her being it. And her being away most of the Day would explain why she hasn't yet said anything about it - and if she is the ranger, she would think for a moment now what to do - while trying to find out what has been happening (if she needs to pick it up now). But that remains to be seen.

One possibility is Greenie. She has played low profile, is intelligent enough to lay low and has had no chance to react to the latest developements... Although the problem is that I think Ang "revealed" before she went away. Thus making it a bit unbelievable.

Glirdan might be a better choice: he has been overtly active, protecting and helpful as well and voted "right" - and if I'm not wrong (haven't checked) has been away long enough to have missed the reveal? Now that should have to be checked actually...

Hard to say.

[Aganzir]

THE LIVING VOTES
Boro - phantom
Glirdan - Boro
Green - sally
ed - phantom 2
sally - ed
Angu - ed

Left: phantom, Nerwen

THE DEAD VOTES
Lommy - Anguirel -> ed
Agan - Glirdan -> Boro

NO ONE VOTE FOR ANGUIREL HERE.

[Aganzir]

Hard to say.
No that doesn't make enough sense... Angu might be being led but I'm going to trust Occam's razor nonetheless.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Have we decided Elra shouldn't die, then?

[Aganzir]

She's hunting the phantom who can't be anything more than a cobbler. We need a wolf, or just a cobbler. Not both.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I mean, between Phantom and Elra there's at least one baddie... but if Phantom is just a cobbler.... but what if he's not... and...

My head hurts.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

She's hunting the phantom who can't be anything more than a cobbler. We need a wolf, or just a cobbler. Not both.

Then wouldn't it make sense to put the double vote on someone like Boro?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Phantom won't vote for Boro, and unless Nerwen does it'll be a tie if we put the double on Glirdan or it won't matter.

[Nogrod]

It's working!
Right.

Must go now, so I'm voting.

++ phantom

Because I know he's lying. And if you kill me he dies anyways.They're so good they actually deserve to win... :rolleyes:

[Aganzir]

Then wouldn't it make sense to put the double vote on someone like Boro?
If phantom votes for ed she'll have 3, if Nerwen too she'll have 4. If Nerwen votes for phantom it's 3-3. If she votes for Boro, it's 3-2. In which case Boro must have the double vote.

I don't think sally is a wolf.

If ed is a wolf I'm seriously going to kill her.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

One of Elra and Boro is a baddie, they're competing Hunter claims, the smart thing is to keep Elra alive so she can hunt Boro tomorrow (or vice versa).

I think taking Phantom out by himself makes the most sense.

++elrond's daughter

[Nogrod]

I mean, between Phantom and Elra there's at least one baddie... but if Phantom is just a cobbler.... but what if he's not... and...

My head hurts.I'm afraid Elron is the hunter indeed and I know phantom is the cobbler - who has sent messages the whole Day with Ang and Boro.

[Aganzir]

THE LIVING VOTES
Boro - phantom
Glirdan - Boro
Green - sally
ed - phantom 2
sally - ed
Angu - ed
Nerwen - ed 3

Left: phantom

THE DEAD VOTES
Lommy - Anguirel -> ed
Agan - Glirdan -> Boro
Shasta - ed -> phantom

[Shastanis Althreduin]

UGH! YOU NEVER LET THE PHANTOM HAVE THE LAST WORD! NEVER!

Nerwen, darling, I love you but what are you thinking...

[Aganzir]

Dear phantom, couldn't you vote for someone like... Boro?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Oh look, Sally's almost definitely a wolf. :rolleyes:

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Won't matter anyway. There's no way Elra isn't being lynched at this point. All that remains now is whether or not there will be a double.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'm tempted to try to force a double just to try to end the game and end the suspense!

[Nogrod]

ed and tp then?


If ed is lynched the game ends here (believing she'd pick tp with her).

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Elra and Phantom are going down regardless. The only change will be if Phantom votes Sally or Boro - either way, the double vote really needs to be on him. It doesn't really matter who he votes, but it needs to be on him.

--elrond's daughter
++the phantom

[Aganzir]

THE LIVING VOTES
Boro - phantom
Glirdan - Boro
Green - sally
ed - phantom 2
sally - ed
Angu - ed
Nerwen - ed 3

Left: phantom

THE DEAD VOTES
Lommy - Anguirel -> ed
Agan - ed -> phantom
Shasta - phantom -> ?

--GLIRDAN
++ED

edit: xed with Shasta, corrected it. That was a good idea, let's hope for the best!

[Nogrod]

Won't matter anyway. There's no way Elra isn't being lynched at this point. All that remains now is whether or not there will be a double.If Elron is lynched there will be a double anyway. And we lose if shetakes the cobtom...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

If Elron is lynched there will be a double anyway. And we lose if shetakes the cobtom...

Which is why it's pointless to give Elra the extra vote as she's already voting Phantom and thus taking him down anyway.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

He's not going to though. Phantom as an innocent knows we have the power to change this lynch (us being the dead) and would vote accordingly. He's purposely holding his vote so we don't have a chance to.

[Aganzir]

So because we can't affect the outcome of the lynch, should we just try to tell them Nessa was not a wolf in case something weird happens? Ie. vote for Nerwen, Green, phantom or Angu.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Well, there it is. Elra gone, and Phantom too most probably.

[Aganzir]

He voted already. For ed.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

So because we can't affect the outcome of the lynch, should we just try to tell them Nessa was not a wolf in case something weird happens? Ie. vote for Nerwen, Green, phantom or Angu.

Yes. Most probably pile your votes onto Ang or Phantom (both are voted already).

[Nogrod]

++ ed

Our vote is not enough though.

We lost.

Sad to say.

Game over.

[Mithalwen]

++Anguirel

[Aganzir]

VOTE ANGU because we don't want to give the impression of trusting phantom.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

++Angu

*shrug* My only current investment is finding out the TRUTH! (aka: having the game end and learning all the roles).

[Aganzir]

THE LIVING VOTES
Boro - phantom
Glirdan - Boro
Green - sally
ed - phantom 2
sally - ed
Angu - ed
Nerwen - ed 3
phantom - ed 4

THE DEAD VOTES
Lommy - Anguirel -> ed
Agan - ed -> phantom
Shasta - phantom -> ed
Nog - ed -> phantom
Mith - Angu -> ed
Fea - Angu -> ed

[Nogrod]

Which is why it's pointless to give Elra the extra vote as she's already voting Phantom and thus taking him down anyway.Rather tp than ed dead because that would have given the ranger a chance the coming Night.

If they both die - we all die.

[Aganzir]

Rather tp than ed dead because that would have given the ranger a chance the coming Night.

If they both die - we all die.
They all voted for her. We didn't stand a chance.

You know why I hanged Arwen? Not for wolvery. Not for murder.

for arrant horse-theft.

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/img/daily/630/livht_l.jpg
Hahahahah! :------D

[Aganzir]

It seems the ranger isn't the perfect role for people with an ego, either... :p

edit: by which I mean, if you don't have an ego it's not as easy to fall for phantom's flattery. ;)

[Nogrod]

You guys are late. We lost.

[Aganzir]

I'm sorry Nog. :(:(:( ❤❤

[Nogrod]

I'm sorry Nog.Don't mention it, things happen... :rolleyes:

Well, I tried to make good what I messed up with but I was feeling like Sisyphos of the old Greek myth rolling that huge rock on top of the mountain every day only to begin a new the next day... :)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

At least you know we love you forever anyway...

[Aganzir]

Yes. We do.

Oh my god really, I'm laughing. Hysterical. Such a farce on our part... Poor poor Nog. :D

Hmm I wonder if we're supposed to talk yet...? Probably not.

[Nogrod]

At least you know we love you forever anyway...Everyone loves the legendary seer... (Storyline 1) :p

[Rikae]

Shh! Let us get the narration up first.

[Nogrod]

Hmm I wonder if we're supposed to talk yet...? Probably not.We're on the Dead-thread, there are no Night or Days here... :p

But I do think the after-game discussion will be in the game-thread... Waiting for the narration though...


EDIT: Oops. Orders notified Rikae. :)

[Macalaure]

Almost there.

If you wish to guess in the meantime, you may. ;)

[Aganzir]

Are we allowed to post the said guesses here or is it supposed to be mental? :p

[Macalaure]

The post game discussion will take place here - for reasons of appropriateness. ;)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Sigh. Really? If my darling really is a wolf, I really will be forced to bite her... :(

[Mithalwen]

it is going to take more than arabica and touche eclat to get over the effects of this one... sleep is all I crave but curiosity must be satisfied.

[Nogrod]

Boro and Ang, like I said a long time... the third one is harder... just bringing in the enigma: Glirdy?

Somehow they all disregarded him from their tallies. Although I'd have to say a wolf-on-wolf would have been really daring on a Day like this! *kudos for that if it's true*

EDIT: Hmm... a little insecure now what the guidelines tell us... well proise to be quiet until the naration is up or everyone else posts freely.

Like Mith said: needs to go to sleep - and fast - but too curious to find out the truth first.

[Aganzir]

sleep is all I crave but curiosity must be satisfied.
My words exactly.

I say phantom is a cobbler. Greenie and Nerwen are wolves. And yeah that's all I'm more or less sure about. :p

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I think I was killed for very good reason. :smokin:

[Nogrod]

Can't resist thisI say phantom is a cobbler.I know he is... :)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Wolves are Sally, Nerwen, Greenie. Cobblers Phantom, Legate, Glirdan. Lovers Agan, me. Ranger Ang. Hunter Elra. Seer - ......gulp. Nogrod.

[Aganzir]

I know he is... :)
Ahaha well of course you do!

[Aganzir]

The Living:

Glirdan - an easy wolf to spot.
A Little Green - her usual innocentish wolf self.
Nerwen - the least suspicious of the girls.
Cruel! :D

GLIRDAN I'LL KILL YOU!!!!!


Thanks for the game. I loved it (as you can see - I'm still awake) even though we seemed to have the worst of luck. :p

[Macalaure]

All done!

Shasta got it almost right.

[Aganzir]

Oh I had forgotten about Lommy :p but she was a very strong cobbler candidate for me.

[Nogrod]

Ang & Boro! How do you explain your play toDay? Especially Ang, what was that doing deals with tp whom we here in the dead thread held as a known bad-guy most of the time? (well I knew he was that but the others kind of went to and fro, but mainly suspecting him - heavily)

Ha-ha. I think I need to eat a hat in a live net-broadcast... Let's se about that. :rolleyes:

I finally got Glirdy right though... small comfort that is.

[satansaloser2005]

Nog was lying eh? Eh?!?! :rolleyes:

(It's my own fault, really. That whole exchange did look rather silly.)


Also, as soon as Phantom snapped at me for my "you're the cobbler taking one for the team" comment, I knew that my gut had been right and we were all dead. I'm sorry, guys. :(

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'm glad I pegged Nerwen and Glirdan in the first two days. It almost makes up for the fact that if I'd stayed alive, I'd have probably let Greenie live indefinitely. :rolleyes:

[Glirdan]

Oh you poor poor people totally didn't see it coming!! Ahahahahaha!! :D

Two things:

1) I'm sure none of you will want to see me alive after Day 1 ever again :rolleyes:

2) This is my first win as a Wolf where i was still alive at the end!! Hehehehehe!!! :D

[Aganzir]

Yeah when you read the posts here you can see our anti-phantom attitude. ;)

I'm glad I pegged Nerwen and Glirdan in the first two days. It almost makes up for the fact that if I'd stayed alive, I'd have probably let Greenie live indefinitely. :rolleyes:
I knew she was up to something when she didn't question me as usual.

[the phantom]

I played so terribly... It's almost as if some of it was purposeful.

*giggle*

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I played so terribly... It's almost as if some of it was purposeful.

*giggle*

Read up on our exploits here. You'll see that we noticed. :p

[satansaloser2005]

I played so terribly... It's almost as if some of it was purposeful.

*giggle*

Is there any part of your body you don't want bruised tomorrow? :Merisu:

[Glirdan]

Oh, and to our wonderful Cobblers, you played your parts amazingly well!! :D Including sir Legate who had to drop out unexpectedly.

Sally, Angu, I'm sorry for being so amazingly devious :P

[Rikae]

That was excruciating to watch. I mean, it's bad enough to be a seer that isn't believed, but to be one for almost an entire game! Plus, Agan's trick was brilliant: if only Nog had called her bluff.

If only Boro had come back and called Phantom's bluff, too... that was pretty intense there at the end. For a while I thought Ang recognized the Phabbler and was playing a wolf to trick him, actually. Also:
Why did no one ask Phantom to produce the coded hints he claimed all good seers would leave? :rolleyes:

Really, though, amazing work by the baddies here. It was a very fun game to watch: although it dragged a bit in the middle (I expect because you all got too caught up in the signaling business to do much actual wolf-hunting), it picked up again at the end. Too late, though, for the village... and now we have lots of company here in Mandos!
:D

[the phantom]

Read up on our exploits here. You'll see that we noticed.
Yeah, I thought there was a chance of a combo of Nog plus my play would cause this thread to turn anti-Phantom, which is why I made sure to continue giving orders to the Dead, as I assumed it would infuriate you guys. :p

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Is there any part of your body you don't want bruised tomorrow? :Merisu:

Nope, he wants you to be mean. He likes it rough. Believe me, I know. ;)

[Aganzir]

Is there any part of your body you don't want bruised tomorrow? :Merisu:
Please kick him for me. Several times.

[Glirdan]

Question sir phantom, did you know who we were??

[the phantom]

Glirdan, Nerwen, and Green- well done!! I wasn't actually certain who all three of you were, so I tried to play as open-ended as I could and allow for the wind to blow where it would. This last day was just the worst, trying to look like I wanted to lynch others while at the same time trying to ensure that the lynch would be either Daughter or I. If I had played it any differently I was afraid Daughter would lean more heavily Cobbler than Wolf for me and so change her pick.

[the phantom]

In answer to your question Glirdan, I was fairly confident about Green, somewhat confident about you, and unsure of Nerwen. I have no idea why, but for some reason I practically kept forgetting that she was playing. She just continually slid off my brain. Sally I figured was innocent, and same with Ang and Daughter before their reveals. Boro was my fourth possible candidate and seeing as he was possibly Wolf, possibly Cobbler, and probably absent, he seemed like the best gamble for my reveal given the way I was positioned.

(Had my reveal backfired through his interference I would have tried to put a spin on it along the lines of "Darn it! I thought for sure you were my Cobbler! Bah, guess I'm caught!" so that I would be lynched.)

[Nogrod]

Hats off to:

Greenie
Nerwen
Glirdy

You were very good indeed! Letting the loudmouths take the blame with their own scheming...

Although I'm a bit worried about this recent general developement where the wolves just lay low and play safe (Glirdan actually wasn't doing that) - RL reasons (like I think in this game) or not (like in some other games) - and win the games one after another. We'd probably need a new campaign of "anyone not commiting will be lynched first" -feeling to turn this sad trend around.

In general this game was a bit handicapped because not only so many people jumped out (the two innocents leaving the last NIght was just a too heavy blow), but also the players involved played really little - especially in Mandos. It was quite sad the people disappeared after dying...

It was a very fun game to watch: although it dragged a bit in the middle (I expect because you all got too caught up in the signaling business to do much actual wolf-hunting), it picked up again at the end.I think the downing of the 'Downs also mattered. At last for me it did as I was quite a long time without access...

But yes, a great fun in the end.

[Glirdan]

Shasta - I am actually sorry for having killed you that early, but to both Greenie and I, you were seeming Gifted and we needed you out of the. That and you were an untraceable kill. We almost switched just before DL as your love Nerwen didn't want to see you go, but we stuck with you.

Fea - my darling, lovely Fea, you were just too dangerous to keep around. That plus both Nerwen and I felt you were a Gifted of some sort and we needed you gone.

Mith - the same was with you as it was with Fea. You were too dangerous and you were our pick when the Ranger saved you (Angu, I think you just got lucky with that one, didn't you?), so we knew you were a guaranteed kill.

EDIT: I would just like to add that it is TERRIBLY difficult to co-ordinate with people on the opposite side of the planet (well, nearly anyways lol), yet we still managed. Even with a down's crash, a Greenie absenteeism for a Night and Nerwen's terrible internet connection, we still did it :D

[the phantom]

Nog... I'm not even sure what to say to you...

I felt happy and sad at the same time when you died. Kind of felt like a jerk.

Lynching Lommy on the other hand- well that was just delightful! :D

[the phantom]

Oh, hush Fea & Maria. She doesn't need the encouragement.

Sally- if you do anything to cause bleeding or serious bruising tomorrow, I will go home and pull Voldy's head off and mail it to you. Do you want his blood on your hands?

[Nogrod]

the phantom: I'm just too curious, what did you think of Ang when he started making all these hints to you that you three musketeers should bring it on home - and suggested in no unclear terms you stayed away from Boro - and then started carrying Elron by the handle when she revealed to the horror of us here in the Deadland?

Elron & Ang: you were two kills from the disaster, so why did you think revealing would help you? Wasn't it the contrary? The wolves would have loved to know whom to avoid as the victory was soo near?

And did anyone really trust the phantom being the seer? I lost all confidence with him on D1 and dreamt of him the next Night, but also Aganzir got quite positive tp was not doing good the next day. And the point was: he was making all his schemes he always does, but this time they were filled with errors and all of them bad for the innocents...

And really, even if the guys here in Mandos were doing their best to ignore anything I said, with tp they agreed with me. :rolleyes:

[Shastanis Althreduin]

From the phone: @Glirdy - untraceable? After the fight I had with Nog? Try again. :)

And well done, all!

[Nogrod]

Nog... I'm not even sure what to say to you...
Heh, don't mention it. Like I said here in this thread one Day (or Night), I would probably have been lynched even if I had gone to sleep early enough not to make a fool of myself that Day; so the milk was already spilt - by some nasty people (looking at the list of wolves I'm getting totally new ideas how it went back there, but will not think about it further).

Anyway, it was a fun game, and surely a challenge from N3 on... and I do like challenges.

Sadly I was so mislead by Ang and Boro that missed the real culprits for too long.

[the phantom]

Personally I didn't doubt Ang's reveal, and his willingness to team up with me didn't particularly concern me. If it was a trap then it was. It didn't matter because I already planned to do something quite drastic which I doubted would fall into any sort of preset guilt/innocence category in his head. Basically my reveal sabotaged the alliance, which I assumed would make Ordos think "Why would a baddie do such a thing? It appeared he had this lynch in hand? Why would he screw it up for himself?"

As far as the schemes, I actually wasn't intending for them to be negative. All the stuff I came up with on Day 1 was simply a result of me not knowing the rules and wanting someone else to theorize and make sense of it for me. By some point during Day 2 however I think I pretty well had a handle on things, and unless I'm much mistaken I don't believe I recommended anything harmful after that.

[Glirdan]

From the phone: @Glirdy - untraceable? After the fight I had with Nog? Try again.

Hehehe, fair enough....no, it was actually more random then anything. You were the only one that Greenie and I agreed on and when Nerwen finally reappeared (due to internet connection problems), it was too late as I had sent in the kill. Just so happens we lucked out and you were actually a Gifted.

Oh, and I just finished reading all of this thread and noticed that only two people ever considered me a Wolf and we killed both of them early on (no offense you two but.....YES!!! :D). Oh, and Boro (who texted me saying he hates me...but I know my big bro doesn't :D)

Okay, I'm finally going to go to bed as I have to work in about nine hours. Night all.

[Nerwen]

There, there, village. You really did have some bad luck.

I do feel we wolves owe a great deal to phabbler– I was getting quite worried going into the last Day, knowing there were at least two gifteds still alive, and possibly no cobblers at all. ( Nog, I'm afraid even we wolves weren't sure whether you or phantom was the baddie.)

I'll tell you what, I'm having fun reading back through this thread:
IF ANG IS NOT A WOLF I WILL EAT A HAT IN A LIVESTREAM PERFORMACE IN THE INTERNET!
Well?:Merisu:

[Anguirel]

urgh

well

I can come back to life, I'll be ok. I don't think I'll boast much about this at the Last Homely House, right. The real story of Glorfindel and his Balrog...

and the biggest irony? I think I shall leave the Dead thread the Unread Thread

[Mithalwen]

Mith - the same was with you as it was with Fea. You were too dangerous and you were our pick when the Ranger saved you (Angu, I think you just got lucky with that one, didn't you?), so we knew you were a guaranteed kill.


I don't think it was luck it was judgement. Maybe it was lucky for you he didn't have the job from the start:rolleyes:Or that all o f the three people who were modfired / dropped out were in the "innocent" tally and two were innocent... Rather ungenerous in such a whitewash to assume that one positive action that stymied you was purely luck..:(

[satansaloser2005]

Oh, hush Fea & Maria. She doesn't need the encouragement.

Sally- if you do anything to cause bleeding or serious bruising tomorrow, I will go home and pull Voldy's head off and mail it to you. Do you want his blood on your hands?

My sweet Voldy! :eek:

And I've already begun drafting a petition to have you deemed an unfit parent. Voldy will likely be placed in my care (being the nearest living relative, and his mother a foreigner and all) after your shenanigans. Besides, you're bringing him with you. He needs snuggles from Aunt Sally. <3


Nog: I love you, dear. :(

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Glirdan
Mith - the same was with you as it was with Fea. You were too dangerous and you were our pick when the Ranger saved you (Angu, I think you just got lucky with that one, didn't you?), so we knew you were a guaranteed kill.
I don't think it was luck it was judgement. Maybe it was lucky for you he didn't have the job from the start
I never thought it was just luck on Glorfindel's part– in fact I was kicking myself the next Day for not having realised how likely it was that a smart Ranger might guess you would be the target.

[Mithalwen]

I did wonder if you were the ranger since you seemed sure I was innocent too ...of course there was a simple reason for that! Trouble is I never know with you at all and I keep saying to myself you can't always be a wolf..but simly if I play you are! I also have a fatal weakness for not wanting to be rid early of players who amuse me ;)

There is a risk of a lot of second guessing with the ranger guard - for both parties - do you go for the obvious choice or the second obvious choice and hope the opposition does the same. So I was not at all suprised that I died when I did - just sorry that I didn't make better use of the time .. but the connection thing didn't help nor did that there was so little activity at times of the day when I am normally awake. Also it is hard to get motivated to trawl through pages of posts when you don't have the new insight of knowing roles. Heigh ho... Maybe one day I'll get to be the hunter and getting killed will be more fun!

[Nerwen]

I did wonder if you were the ranger since you seemed sure I was innocent too ...of course there was a simple reason for that!
I was of course laying ground for a possible reveal– I might have done it yesterDay if things hadn't gone our way.

Trouble is I never know with you at all and I keep saying to myself you can't always be a wolf..but simly if I play you are! I also have a fatal weakness for not wanting to be rid early of players who amuse me ;)
Thank you.:)

[Rikae]

Several of the things I was hoping to see in this game happened: the curiosity of the living about the dead thread, the dead screaming at the living toward the end of the game (:D), worry over the fact that the evil/good ratio would balance out between the two threads, discussion of whether to sacrifice the ranger, etc. Not all the possibilities were exploited, though, and not all the rules were clear from the beginning. How about I do a sequel in a year or so, maybe with some refinements to the setup? It's too soon for me to get back on the modding list, but I can still plan on it - if people are interested.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'm interested. Definitely interested.

[Mithalwen]

Yes. I don't think it was as uneven in structure as the outcome suggests. It could have gone differently if we could have more exploited the special roles and not had quite such a high level of drop out rate. Second time around hopefully harder perhaps to get distracted by the sheer novelty.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

And if next time we don't... um... discredit and completely ignore our seer within the first day...

[Mithalwen]

Well he looked like a cobbler and then was so nasty I stopped listening.

[A Little Green]

Hehe.



OK, I suppose I should say something else too - first off, a lot of love to all our cobblers. You were awesome. I especially loved phabbler's Seer reveal. :D Secondly, a hug to Nog - your tone was so innocent I was leaning towards thinking you were the Seer but obviously wasn't going to be too loud about that! Thirdly, kudos to the mod(s) for the brilliant concept, I really enjoyed it (though I know I'd have had several grey hairs if innocent..) Fourth, nice try village. Oh, don't I love watching the loudmouths tear each other and the quiet players apart. :Merisu:

[elronds_daughter]

This was fun. :)

I'd love to do it again sometime...even if it was a little frustrating toward the end.

Well played, everyone. Especially phabbler. :P

[Boromir88]

Wowee, those last few days it was rough trying to form any coherent opinions, or good judgements. (Not completely a terrible thing as I found a job opportunity I'm in absolute love with, but it did grab me away from this game towards the end. I'm writing social studies questions for national quiz tournaments and moderating many tourneys over the weekends. I gets to go to Atlanta and possibly D.C. :D)

Anyway, congradulations to the wolves and cobblers. By the end the only thing I knew for sure was phantom was evil, and I didn't care if he was the cobbler or not and the game was over, I just wanted to lynch him, so there'd be a game he'd finally get lynched. (I should have stuck with my immediate reactions against Glirdan)

Fabulous play on your part phantom. I just so happen to miss the most insane last days I can remember and after I leave Ang reveals as Glorfy, elrond comes forth as the hunter. Then Fea tells me...so, phantom's wink-winking nudge-nudge that he's the seer and begging you come back to back him up. I'm trying not to shout and scream, or the people I was with might have thought I was a mental case. I SAID I COULDN'T COME BACK THE REST OF THE DAY! PHANTOM SHOULD KNOW THIS! I bit my tongue because I knew if I could come back I would be able to immediately expose his lies and save the day, but alas I could not. :( (Speaking of this, I had a dream about it, which will be appearing in the BDer dream thread momentarily).

Things about the dead thread which amused me.

1) one of the few games I'm not dead before Night 3 happens to be the one game where the dead can participate after death. Wonderful idea Rikae.

2) Poor Nog trying each day to doggedly prove his innocence, but to no avail, with Agan and Fea telling him to go sit in the corner all the time. If I was there, I'd probably sided with Agan, so count yourself lucky Nog. :p

3) Fea's reasons for why I was an ordo this game...being much more interested in watching Anne Boleyn bust out of her corset. hehe

4) The dead thread waking up after all the reveals on that last day. I don't know, you think the living would take more notice that the dead thread is bursting out at the same time, and therefor would know something or have opinions on all the reveals and such. Still amusing.

[Glirdan]

So, just throwing this out there as food for thought...

Even if we would have lynched phantom instead, there were still three Wolves and we knew who the Hunter and Ranger were with Sallycakes as an Ordo and most of the "village" not trusting her, thus leaving us with a pretty much open kill, thus makin us victors anyways. :p Trust me, I had it planned out. :D

[Loslote]

I only just got the chance to get on and see this. I was pretty sure we'd lose and all, but the wolves... :eek:

Well played, guys. Well played.

And snuggles to Nog... ups

[Aganzir]

and the biggest irony? I think I shall leave the Dead thread the Unread Thread
I said something nasty to you when you fell into the phantom's trap, but otherwise we were cheering for you. Except for Nog. He cross-posted with your reveal (if you can say so when the posts are in different threads), the title of his post being "Anguirel is a wolf."

I mean, I would have liked to believe him because he behaved more innocently after his death, but when you see things like that you can't help wondering... :p

How about I do a sequel in a year or so, maybe with some refinements to the setup?
Yes!

It could have gone differently if we could have more exploited the special roles and not had quite such a high level of drop out rate.
Exactly. Shasta and I had some things planned out, such as a way to make Lommy give herself away, but we couldn't really do anything because he died so early. I also doubt any information sending thing would have been possible if there hadn't been two known innocents in Mandos so early - and actually it might have been better that way. In the end the village didn't get much out of it while we dead did have strong opinions on the players.

[Thinlómien]

YAY for the evil team! :D *hugs Greenie, Nerwen, Glirdan, Legate and even phantom* You wolves were just brilliant, and phantom, hats off for the trick.

I loved the game, thanks Rikae and Mac! The concept was great, and I'm happy you gave me the chance to be a cobbler (which is a role I never had before).

Anyway, I realised cobblering really isn't my cup of tea after all. Okay, I can cause confusion, keep people talking about silly stuff, argue with people (although I never got to my planned "fight with Agan" part) and get lynched, but that's it. I was so unhappy to find out Legate had been a cobbler - I had such high hopes for the "last" cobbler because I wanted them to counter-reveal after the "real" seer reveal. I seriously kicked myself for not making a seer reveal just after dying, but luckily it was unnecessary. Also, I had very little idea who were the wolves (I was suspecting Nerwen and Greenie to be ones but I also though there'd be wolves among Sally/Lottie/maybe even Nessa).

But most of all, I felt very handicapped most of the time. When I was dead, I wasn't of much use because whatever I tried to say, Agan, Shasta and Fea started barking at me. It's no fun being a dead cobbler among raging dead innocents. ;) Also, I realised cobbler is a role which requires being around at the DL (would've loved to cause some double-lynches!) which was impossible for me because it was 6am Finnish time. And I have to admit - I don't have the heart to be a cobbler. If there's anything more difficult for me in a ww game than following the thread blindly and rooting for the evil side, I don't what it is. I'm too much of a goodie at heart. I literally kept kicking myself for suspecting people who actually looked wolvish and bringing up points which could've been useful for the village. So, it was a wonderful experience but now I know I'm just too nice to be a cobbler (except in RL games, that's totally different!)

Also, Agan was right - cobbler really isn't a good role for someone with an ego. I don't think I have much of one, but I did feel a prickle of humiliation for being intentionally stupid/silly so much of the time. :D

I would be very interested in a re-round. Only, I think the dead should be somehow motivated to talk more. I think talking both Day and Night was kind of tiresome, I would've concentrated better if I hadn't had to be around all the time. Also, I think we discovered trying to deliver messages is pretty useless, haha.

It was great to play with you all, thanks everybody! I was especially to play with Mith and Ang again after such a looong time, but truly, thanks everybody. (And my especial condolences to Nogrod and Elra, I feel so bad for you!) I shall remember this game.

[Nogrod]

I just crashed into this post from the Dead thread...
Nerwen would be my first choice. Her sarcasm upon arrival might also tell about her being it. And her being away most of the Day would explain why she hasn't yet said anything about it - and if she is the ranger, she would think for a moment now what to do - while trying to find out what has been happening (if she needs to pick it up now). But that remains to be seen.

One possibility is Greenie. She has played low profile, is intelligent enough to lay low and has had no chance to react to the latest developements... Although the problem is that I think Ang "revealed" before she went away. Thus making it a bit unbelievable.

Glirdan might be a better choice: he has been overtly active, protecting and helpful as well and voted "right" - and if I'm not wrong (haven't checked) has been away long enough to have missed the reveal? Now that should have to be checked actually...

Hard to say.So am I speculating about the wolves here, hitting the nail into to the head?

Nope.

I'm speculating who could be the real ranger if Anguirel is faking... That kind of sums my game in one post... :o:rolleyes::p

[Mänwe]

Congratulations wolves and thanks to the mods for such a unique game!

[Galadriel55]

That was a really interesting game, Rikae! (even though time only allowed me to skim through it :()

Not to worry, Nog - I believed you from Night2!:cool:

Phantom - that was amazing! I thought you were a wolf or a gifted.

And I didn't suspect any of the wolvsies!:rolleyes:

[Blind Guardian]

Sorry about not playing you guys. That was seriously unexpected.

[A Little Green]

So am I speculating about the wolves here, hitting the nail into to the head?

Nope.

I'm speculating who could be the real ranger if Anguirel is faking... That kind of sums my game in one post...Aww, poor Nog! *snigger*

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Ha, brilliant! Great job, WWs and fellow Cobblers!

I really pity that I had to pull out early, but nonetheless, it was a lot of fun to play in this one.

For the record, I must say that I was only 100% sure about Lommy being the Cobbler - and I left it to the fate to decide, also had her as a bit of "backup" in case a Wolf was threatened and she could be lynched instead of him/her. I didn't know for sure about the Wolves' identity, it was more like that I was pretty sure (and correctly, now looking at it) who is NOT a Wolf, thus, I sort of kept my clear suspicions around people who I presumed could be lynched either way or another. Funnily enough, I also wasn't exactly sure about Nogrod's allegiance, I've been flip-flopping about him a lot (but really sorry Nog! That was absolute martyrdom from your part), but in any case, I thought it would be okay to sacrifice him even if he happened to be evil (more likely Cobbler) and also I thought the general mood was so that if I said that he should not be lynched, people will lynch him anyway, or maybe even more likely, and it will sort of give a better "starting position" to the baddies in the following Day anyway.

In any case, also thanks to the Mod(s), the Mandos idea was veery interesting, hope we'll see a reprise sometime.