The Valley Forge - WW LXXXVII - Admin Thread

[Folwren]

I am glad to hear that Glirdan. :)

It's PM Mithalwen.

Sorry the deadline time is bad for you Sally. :(

-- Foley

[Mithalwen]

Thanks that is quite good then won't be watching the whites of my eyes turn red.....

[Folwren]

Tomorrow morning I will send out roles. Night One will start at 4:00 PM EST.

[Thinlómien]

I'm a bit sad I have to miss this one, but I'm very glad it will finally work out! Have fun everybody and enjoy the Dwarven romance of the century. ;)

[satansaloser2005]

Tomorrow morning I will send out roles. Night One will start at 4:00 PM EST.

I don't suppose there's any way the DL could be just one hour later, is there? Possibly?

Honestly, it wouldn't be right of me to play with this DL. I'll be gone all day, almost every Day, and I'm not in a position to be able to check the Downs at work. I'll think about it for a couple of hours and let you know if I can actually manage the stress. We'll see.

[Folwren]

Yeah, we can move it one hour. 5:00 PM EST would be fine with me. Would that be better? Please don't go, Sally.

-- Foley

[Folwren]

Roles are sent. If you didn't get one, let me know, because you should've. If I messed up on something, let me know and we'll have to re-do this. :rolleyes:

I will send out those additonal instructions for the Sweetheart and KD and Night Watchdwarf later...once I finish canning peaches.

This afternoon at 5:00 P.M. EST, Night One Phase will begin. I will start the thread and post the first post at that time (hopefully, anyway...)

-- Folwren

[satansaloser2005]

I guess my mind was made up for me. :/

[Folwren]

Yep. :D .... I hope you wanted to play, though.

Game starts in 1.5 hours. Please set your options to Invisibility Mode. :)

-- Folwren

[satansaloser2005]

Yep. :D .... I hope you wanted to play, though.

Game starts in 1.5 hours. Please set your options to Invisibility Mode. :)

-- Folwren



As long as no one uses my lack of posting to try to lynch me (Forge, I'm looking at you) I don't really care. I'll do my best.


Note: I make the above statement without knowledge of my role. I'm going to go check my PM now. :cool:

[Folwren]

No kill the first night, Forges.

Good luck, everybody. I hope the game is fair.

-- Folwren

[Folwren]

The question has come up about whether or not roles will be revealed upon death. I haven't been quite sure what I wanted to do, but now that the game has started, I think I need to decide.

So, based on the way I plan to narrate the story/game, I think that roles will be revealed as long as the King's Dwarf is still alive. After that, there might be some revelations, but not necessarily. You will definitely know when the King's Dwarf dies. If the Sweetheart has found the King's Dwarf by the time she dies, you'll know when she dies. However, if the King's Dwarf is dead and the Night Watchdwarf is killed, you may not know it is he.

Is that definite enough, or do you want to know for a certainty what their roles are when they die?

-- Folwren

[satansaloser2005]

So you'd reveal roles until the KD dies, and then not afterward? That sounds fine, I suppose, but I'm not sure why you'd be doing it. (I'm on my phone and am also really tired, sorry.)

Either way is fine with me, as long as it's decided and clear before the game properly starts.

[Folwren]

I'll just reveal the roles. It'll be okay.

-- Foley

[wilwarin538]

K, sorry I totally spaced, got distracted looking at future career stuffs and didn't remember til about 10 minutes ago, I was luckily able to get my break early to come on. And these posts were done on my phone (the higlighting took forever!) so sorry for any spelling mistakes.

[satansaloser2005]

Or, you know, my phone could die. :/

[Nerwen]

Sorry for non-vote– yes, I know I always do this, but honestly my internet went down.

[the phantom]

I'm home now. Sorry about the lack of highlighting on the vote. I was in a rush.

[Eruhen]

I probably won't be here much, if at all, the next couple of days. I've got about 1200 miles to go in two days to pick up a family member, so don't expect to see me before Friday. Maybe late Thursday.

[Folwren]

Foley's last word on the Admin thread was we'd know when the KD died. If she's changed her mind about that, it would be fair to let everybody know.

Haha, I feel smart. I picked up on a hint. ;)

Okay, yeah, I've decided to not reveal when the KD is killed. Which means my narrations will change a little bit, withdrawing from his point of view hence forward.

-- Folwren

[wilwarin538]

Awww, and I was going to be able to participate a lot toDay. :( Well, hope everyone has fun!

And I'm afraid Glirdy has to drop out, he has no internet access for the next little while so there's no way for him to come on. He's really sorry!

[satansaloser2005]

Haha, I feel smart. I picked up on a hint. ;)

Okay, yeah, I've decided to not reveal when the KD is killed. Which means my narrations will change a little bit, withdrawing from his point of view hence forward.

-- Folwren

Bother. Really? :(



Also, bad Canadian desserts. Bad, I say. :p

[Galadriel55]

And I'm afraid Glirdy has to drop out, he has no internet access for the next little while so there's no way for him to come on. He's really sorry!

Oh come on! We could've lynched him yesterDay! :p ;) :)

[Folwren]

Sorry it's late. I was out on the opposite side of our property on horseback at 4:00 before I realized what time it was. :eek:

Also, I know that in the narration for Galadriel's death, I made her a 'she'. Then in Rikae's death, I made her a 'he'. It was hard to make Gal a she, as I feel in the story they'd all be he's. Anyway, that being said, don't take anything having to do with those pronouns to be hints as to whether or no they were the KD.

-- Foley

[Folwren]

I will not be here come deadline time. So, come 5:00 PM EST, please stop posting as usual. I'll be back to evaluate the damage and write the narration as soon as possible.

-- Folwren

[the phantom]

Do we do post-game discussion on this thread or the other thread?

[the phantom]

Ah well, I have to leave shortly, so I'll go ahead and start the discussion rolling here...

My joke-votes on Pitch weren't entirely a joke, as you can see now. I was provided with a perfect excuse from my conversations with Sally, but I never would've gone so far as to cast an actual vote against Pitch (let alone three) only for a laugh. I'm unpredictable, but surely you don't think I'm that crazy.

My votes were meant to be a signal to him that I thought him to be the KD (in light of my "lynch the KD" plan) and thus he could count on me paying attention to him.

And at what point did I begin to think him the KD and why?

His very very first post, of course. But I'll leave it to Pitch to spell out the details. ;)

(PS- Sorry I had to lynch you Pitch, but not only was it funny, but I'm also quite paranoid at times and I couldn't shake this nagging fear that the KD and SHeart were given secret instructions to try and survive alone as a lover-pair, i.e. you would've continued your nightly killings.)

[Rikae]

I have to say, Pitch's trilogy-hinting was very clever - everyone knew from Day one who he was, and there was no way to undo the damage. Of course I didn't enjoy being a wolf in the position, essentially, of having a seer that had dreamt us all on Night one, but that's how experimental games go, and I do admire Pitch's hinting skill: everyone knew what he meant, but it still didn't count as a reveal. Nicely done.

[Galadriel55]

You ruined my fun. Pitch.

:D

But that hinting was neat. :cool:

And, by the way - I think I'm the dwarf with the golden beard in the first narration. Aren't I, Foley? :Merisu:

Great game everyone, and great modding on Foley's part! Thank you!

Edit: xed with Rikae. I still don't get what all the trilogy talk was about.

Oh, and who was the SH? Mith, I had a random thought it was you because of your siggy. :P

Edit2: the sad thing is that we only managed to dispose off one non-forger (Glirdy dropped out, so that doesn't count). ONE!

[Mithalwen]

Which one the Arnold or the Larkin? Neither were especially romantic - I would have chosen Tennyson's Mariana or Yeats or maybe a bit of ee cummings or darling Rupert "Oh death will find me long ere I tire" maybe . But no it wasn't me - I don't think I would use my sig for that purpose though I was seriously tempted to change it back to "You're so vain; you probably think this sig is about you".

[Rikae]

My guess would be Boro.

[Eruhen]

This was certainly a great game. My only beef is that I wish I had had more time to play. That's what I get for driving from Pennsylvania to Tennessee and back again in three days...

Oh, well. On the next game!

[Galadriel55]

Gifteds, will you now reveal your supersecret superhuman abilities?

My favourite bits:

Sorry, but you know how I have this obession with killing your RPG characters? Well, this is the next best thing. :p

Sure. Um, yeah. It will become my goal in life to lynch you. So it's mutual. :p

Wow. They're dropping like flies.

Dwarves don't have the right build to drop like flies. They drop like oliphaunts.

I find it curious that both G55 and Rikae voted for Pitch yesterDay, even though G55 later retracted and went kamikaze.

Ok, I know I'm totally crazy, but for a second I thought you're a wolf. :eek: Reason? Simple. Nerwen used that same phrase in one of the PMs.



And for any of you who are wondering, my first PM on N2 looked something like:

Pitchwife!!! What the * were you * doing?! *^#*@&)%_+$%^*&)(&@#*&%(*&&@#*&(#*&)*#($#(*$)%^!#($*

Since I was more angry at him for foiling me and Bom's perfect Phantom-wagon than for being the KD.

[Inziladun]

I just posted on the game thread. Are we supposed to do it here?

[Galadriel55]

I just posted on the game thread. Are we supposed to do it here?

I don't know. It's mighty difficult discussing the same thing over two threads. TP started it here, so let's blame it on him. :p

[Inziladun]

I don't know. It's mighty difficult discussing the same thing over two threads. TP started it here, so let's blame it on him. :p

I'll ask again here, then. Was Rikae's death meant to frame Pitch?

[Folwren]

I don't know. It's mighty difficult discussing the same thing over two threads. TP started it here, so let's blame it on him. :p

I like that idea. I think that it'd be fine to blame a majority of things on TP. :p

The game didn't go exactly as I imagined it. I'd like to offer the Forgers a special apology, as the deck was obviously stacked against them. So sorry. :(

[Inziladun]

I think that's the best I've ever done as an ordo. :cool:

Thanks for the game, Foley! It was short, but well worth the wait.

Well done, village! And nice job, Pitch! I was not all that confident he was the KD (at least not til the end), but I got a trustworthy vibe off him from the start of the game.

ToDay, I just couldn't buy Nerwen's arguments, especially in light of the fact that she'd given G55 a pass in favour of McCaber.

Good effort Forgers, you were in a tough predicament with a traitor in your midst.

[Galadriel55]

I like that idea. I think that it'd be fine to blame a majority of things on TP. :p

With your permission, o moddess,

++PHANTOM

Since he's responsible for deforastation, global warming, Al-Qaeda, ozone holes, the fall of the Roman empire, H1N1, as well as all the disappearances that occured in the Bermuda Triangle. And much more. :p

[Eruhen]

Every time Phantom posts, God kills a kitten.

Please. Think of the kittens!

[Galadriel55]

If I really regret one thing in the game, it is that I only left you 28 posts to analyse. If I'd have known what would happen, I'd post twice as much, even if most of it would have been nonesense. :D

And I'm amending it now, see? :p

[Finduilas]

I was the Sweet Heart. I felt so horrible proposing the idea of the double lynching, but I thought it better than just killing Pitch, which is where it seemed to be going. I hope he forgives the compromising actions of his SH.

I'm not going to divulge the special instructions without Foley's permission, though I'm figuring she would be fine with me telling. But it did not include the KD and the SH killing people...

[Nerwen]

I know the village expects congratulations– but for once I'm not actually going to deliver them.

Thing is, I know lots of you played your best, and all that– but it wouldn't have mattered if you hadn't, since the game was essentially impossible for you not to win– at least it was once Pitch realised he had nothing to lose by outing the rest of us immediately. This is not to take away from individuals' success in spotting wolves– I mean, to put it bluntly, I think poor Bom earned his Fenrissing, even if Pitch helped out. But the point is, it would have made no difference to the outcome if you'd all played terribly.

Yes, I knew you were the Sweetheart, Finduilas. We also knew Pitch was the KD by Night Two. In fact he admitted it. And we could do nothing because he could, in effect, self-protect! And by the time we'd dealt with that problem, he'd had time to expose us, and gain an ally– and by then he couldn't be modfired without simply confirming every thing he said. That's why Rikae and I tried such a desperate final ploy– because we were in a situation where the other side had all the cards and we had none– through no fault of ours.

I do not blame Foley in this, understand– it's her first time modding, and the rules were extremely complex and had gone through so many changes that I think everyone had lost track of exactly how they worked until the game started. The idea of the KD's role was that he was an undercover agent in a tense, dangerous situation– instead, the final version was, quite by accident, an invincible super-gifted. Now, in my opinion, if a player finds an unintended loophole in the rules that basically gives his side automatic or near-automatic victory, he should point this out only for the purpose of correction. That's really the only way these experimental games can be made to work– because there's *always* some oversight in the rules.

And phantom– I would have opposed your Plan even more strongly if I'd been on the good side. I wouldn't have wanted to win on those terms. I also don't appreciate your later using my perfectly reasonable opposition to it to construct your "case" against me–which was pretty obviously fabricated in response to Pitch's semi-reveal.

Yes, I'm sure I sound like a sore loser– but believe me, I've won and lost many a game of WW before. I know what a reasonably fair game looks like, and this wasn't one. I feel angry and humiliated and I consider Pitch and phantom's conduct as close to cheating as makes no difference.

I feel so strongly about this that I will not be listing this game in my stats, when I come to update, as a "loss", as that would imply the outcome had been open.

[Rikae]

The game didn't go exactly as I imagined it. I'd like to offer the Forgers a special apology, as the deck was obviously stacked against them. So sorry. :(

I think that's a risk of experimental games - Nerwen is right, Pitch was pretty much invincible, but I know you didn't intend it that way. Hey, at least I got to send in a night-kill pick of myself, which is kind of cool.

I suppose (if anyone wants to try this again) not having the SH as well as not revealing the traitor's role on death would help balance things. At any rate, I'd like to point out that although the village won, Pitch didn't, and considering that he didn't exactly abide by the spirit of the rules I'm rather proud of helping to ensure that. No hard feelings, Pitch, but you know it's true.

[Nerwen]

I think that's a risk of experimental games - Nerwen is right, Pitch was pretty much invincible, but I know you didn't intend it that way. Hey, at least I got to send in a night-kill pick of myself, which is kind of cool.

I suppose (if anyone wants to try this again) not having the SH as well as not revealing the traitor's role on death would help balance things.
Or letting the KD ask for protection for himself, or making survival his personal winning condition, or having an extra evil role outside the pack whose identity he wouldn't know– perhaps a cobbler of some description... yes, there are a lot of ways this could be fixed. Or perhaps having an alternative way of enforcing the rules– as a general thing, I'm thinking that a way of dealing with the multiple-role super-gifteds that tend to crop up in experimental games would be secretly to remove some of their powers.

As I said already, I think the problem was that nobody, including the moddess, saw the full implications of the way the roles worked until it was too late.

At any rate, I'd like to point out that although the village won, Pitch didn't, and considering that he didn't exactly abide by the spirit of the rules I'm rather proud of helping to ensure that. No hard feelings, Pitch, but you know it's true.

What annoys me most is that, even as the game was meant to function, the rules tended to favour the village anyway– and that for some reason this wasn't *good* enough for Pitch and phantom. Not only that, but simple chance had already been on Pitch's side: because Rikae forgot the game had started, and my computer had broken down, he got to be the only experienced player around on Night One– so there was was no strategy talk and no advice on surviving for the wolf-cubs. Now, obviously, that's just something that happened– but my point is that it's one thing to push the boundaries when the situation is heavily against you, quite another when everything is going your way anyway. Finally, if everything is going your way, and you do choose to push the boundaries, I think it behoves you to show some humility about it. I'm serious, Pitch– I'm really not happy about all that dripping sarcasm towards us on Day Two. It wasn't like you were a real Seer who had earned your knowledge through dream-choices– you'd just been handed it. That's nothing to gloat about.

[the phantom]

The imbalance was actually why I proposed my plan the way I did- basically telling the KD to out himself to the Forge. The way I saw it, from the get-go the village was extremely likely to win (EXTREMELY), but my plan opened up at least the possibility of a disaster-

If the Forge managed to make it through 2 days of not being lynched, the game was theirs I thought. Make a lynch, nightkill, make a lynch, then kill the KD which would also slay the SH (I'm assuming the Watch-dwarf would've already protected the KD the night before- I actually had a way to ensure it but didn't have time to enact it before I left Day 1 **), plus have one person drop out of the game (I assumed from the start that at least one person would drop out or be modfired for non-participation).

Then bang, game over if I'm not mistaken- particularly if they could do a late ambush at the deadline Day 2 to force a double-lynch (with retractables it was a very real option). That was the only way I saw that the baddies could win (other than the KD not trying at all to lynch his partners, which was entirely unlikely). By forcing the KD to reveal early I figured it would mean the SH would for certain choose the KD and open up the double-kill possibility for the Forge and also reveal the KD to the Forge immediately.

Anyway, sorry if you were offended by my Day 1 play, but that was the best way I could think of to tweak the heavily weighted contest.

And indeed things could have gone quite differently if not for the Bom fenris job on Day 1.
I have to say, Pitch's trilogy-hinting was very clever
Yes, the first time I saw it I skipped right over it, but on reread- "Waaaaaait a minute...."

But of course my favorite bit of hinting he did was telling me exactly who he was in his opening post (here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=660387&postcount=10)). I knew it was possible it was a Forge trick only claiming to be "Galin" to distract the Sweetheart or gain followers, but his actions backed up his claim.

---------
**My way of getting the Watchdwarf to protect the KD Night 1 & not Night 2 was going to be to say, "Watchdwarf- assume whatever name you receive tonight is the KD. Then you'll know who he is. Then the next night he will send his Sweetheart that hopefully has found him. If not, the name will be at least another innocent, which will turn you into a Seer" (similar to Eruhen's suggestion). But in my haste to depart for home I completely spaced voicing that aspect (but then I also saw at that point that it was unlikely my plan would be adopted, so perhaps that's partly why it didn't occur to me).

[Pitchwife]

I've already apologized to Foley for messing up her game like that, but here's to the Forge: you played a great game, and I do feel rather rotten for the way I handled my role. Nerwen, I hope you'll be able to forgive me eventually.
At any rate, I'd like to point out that although the village won, Pitch didn't, and considering that he didn't exactly abide by the spirit of the rules I'm rather proud of helping to ensure that. No hard feelings, Pitch, but you know it's true.
No hard feelings at all - that's why I said I was OK with a double lynch on D3. My Role PM said I had to survive in order to win, and I didn't feel I'd deserved that.

Things would probably have gone differently if Foley had picked a player with a bit more nerves to be the KD. Truth to be told, my first reaction to reading my Role PM was to scream "I hate you!" (Not really, Foley.:)) I expected the Forge would see through me and off me after about two Days or so at the latest.

Night 1 began, and there was no PMing at all among the Forge except G55 wondering why everybody was so quiet and Bom apologizing that he'd forgotten shortly before the Day started. Not knowing the true reason for this silence, I got paranoid that Nerwen and Rikae were waiting for the KD to give himself away by being too eager to talk (à la the "first three posters" meme) and started wondering whether part of the Forge were conspiring in secret. Crazy, yes, but knowing you have something to hide can do strange things to the mind.

Then it turned out that Rikae had plain forgotten too, and I went into D1 relieved and ready to lie low and play by ear. Along comes tp and his plan of infamous genius, causing me to make that priceless slip about the KD's winning condition in my first post which I'm sure some of the Forge must have noticed, especially as tp was so kind to point it out in his reply for all to see, and I thought "Crap, they'll have my number now, I'm dead". Then I remembered that I could get the Watchdwarf to protect me and figured out that they wouldn't be able to kill me without painting the Forge brand on their own doors, and the rest is history.

The Night after Bom's lynch, I initially tried to pretend I had suspected him to be the KD, but of course they were too clever to buy that. That Night, the rules were changed so that the KD wouldn't be revealed at death, and the Forge cut me off from PMs (both with my consent) in an attempt to restore some balance to the game. Unfortunately, that turned out not be enough.

As to the question of hints and revealing, I find picking up hints rather difficult myself, so I had a hard time estimating how obvious or cryptic I was being in the eyes of the ordos. I was confident that phantom had guessed me early on D1, and I did of course notice the spreading trust in me during D2, but I'm not sure whether e.g. Mith really had no idea what was going on at the end of the Day or just pretended for the sake of fairness (I suspect the latter, though).

By the way, did nobody ever consider that I could be the Sweetheart acting as a mouthpiece for the real KD while he was lying low? (The outcome would have been the same, of course.)

The Forge's attempt to frame me as a faker by having Rikae accuse me and then killing her at Night was a stroke of genius, and honestly, I fully expected it would succeed and I would find myself lynched on D3, especially after phantom's 'joke vote' at DL D3 - I had no way of knowing whether you were serious, phantom, and there was a chance you'd go Zeus on me and help the Forgers lynch me for the sake of balance.

Finally, if everything is going your way, and you do choose to push the boundaries, I think it behoves you to show some humility about it. I'm serious, Pitch– I'm really not happy about all that dripping sarcasm towards us on Day Two. It wasn't like you were a real Seer who had earned your knowledge through dream-choices– you'd just been handed it. That's nothing to gloat about.
I concede. I let the pure elation of knowing and being trusted (both which doesn't happen to me all that often in WW) carry me away there in a way which must have been rather unsufferabe. You played admirably, and I'm sorry for offending you.

I was the Sweet Heart. I felt so horrible proposing the idea of the double lynching, but I thought it better than just killing Pitch, which is where it seemed to be going. I hope he forgives the compromising actions of his SH.
No problem at all, Sweetie, that was a good move. But I'm curious why we never got to talk - didn't you guess me, or did you decide to let me stew in my own juice?

[Finduilas]

Seriously folks, don't blame Pitch for doing his best to win...

Foley and I have had a few back and forths about how to fix some of these problems, and she was rather upset at herself for not keeping the rule that the game ended, with a forge win, if the KD was killed at night. This rule would have severely hampered the KD, making him have to walk on eggshells.

Edit: xed with Pitch

[Finduilas]

No problem at all, Sweetie, that was a good move. But I'm curious why we never got to talk - didn't you guess me, or did you decide to let me stew in my own juice?

First night I guessed Zil and Nerwen (it was random, I picked the first two on the list), second night I guessed Boro and Eruhen (I guess I'm really bad at picking up hints...) and third night I guessed you and Mith, though by then there wasn't a doubt in my mind. Did Foley not tell you that I guessed you the third night? She had informed me that no conversation would take place the first night I found you, but I asked her to at least inform you that I had successfully found you, and I have no idea if she did.

As for letting you stew in your own juice, since I suggested double-lynching, I might have been trying to not get involved. :rolleyes: :p

Edit: (just adding some stuff) Someone suggested taking out the SH for purposes of making it more fair, but I really had no hand in the unfairness till the last day, and by then I would say I had little effect. I like the SH idea, other places should be balances though. Maybe not having the NWD-KD connection?

[Mithalwen]

No, I was genuinely clueness. I hate cliquey in jokes between groups of players and ignored all that stuff and it didn't occur that the modfire couldn't happen. I must just be thick or gullible but I just tried ot play with a straight bat and not be manipulated. And yes the only vague solution my fuddled brain could manage was that Pitch was the Sweetheart but did not really compute. Rather feels like being a pawn in a chess game rather than an independent player. A it sorry as I worked harder on this game than I have for years probably but in the end it turns out we were more or less shooting fish in a barrel which is rather disappointing. I think that is what freaked me out - I was working with what was in "clear" not what was in code.... By the end the only person I remotedly trusted was Boromir, and I never thought I'd say that again, and he wasn't around.

Hey ho ... It really didn't turn out as I expected and I feel for what a difficult time Foley must have had. MAybe moddesses should reserve the right to create and emergency Werebear,,,,

[Finduilas]

Hey ho ... It really didn't turn out as I expected and I feel for what a difficult time Foley must have had. MAybe moddesses should reserve the right to create and emergency Werebear,,,,

That would have been pretty sweet.

Yes, I knew you were the Sweetheart, Finduilas.

Did I do anything particularly obvious? I mean, I know I stood up for Pitch about the whole modfire thing, but that was because he really hadn't done anything against the rules. I'm not necessarily surprised that you knew who I was, but I would be interesting in knowing how. :)

[Inziladun]

I agree with phantom that the outcome of the game might have been quite different if Bom hadn't been Fenris'd.

Like I said, I really didn't see Pitch as the probable KD until very late in the game. I saw his "hints" Day 1, but then everyone had been talking about the KD.

For me, Bom led me to G55, and Nerwen's choice of McCaber over G55 led me to Nerwen. It was that simple, and I was utterly amazed that I'd chosen correctly each time. As a rule, I'm pretty hopeless as an ordo.

The KD setup reminds me of Eönwë's long ago Night Guard (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=15675) game, in which I was the "saboteur" wolf, secretly on the side of the village. If I remember correctly, the village didn't even know one of the wolves was on their side, which made my job that much more difficult. Maybe having the KD's sympathies unknown to the innocents would have helped balance things here.

At any rate, Pitch was able to bring about a village victory here, where I failed miserably in a similar situation. :rolleyes:

[Eruhen]

I'm gonna second what Zil just said. I truly had no idea that Pitch was the KD until literally the end of D3. I picked Bom on D1 because he had set off my Wolf-dar (TM), like he has a tendency to do most times, I picked G55 for her defence of Bom, and Nerwen's reluctance to throw G55 under the bus made me pick her.

Also, Mith, I have to say that a Werebear would have been a great addition and potential leveling factor to this game.

[the phantom]

MAybe moddesses should reserve the right to create and emergency Werebear,,,,
Ha ha! I can see it now- in the future all Mods will put that at the end of the their list of rules.... "And as always, I, the moderator, reserve the right to create an emergency Werebear".
As to the question of hints and revealing, I find picking up hints rather difficult myself, so I had a hard time estimating how obvious or cryptic I was being in the eyes of the ordos.
Yes, yes, it's a hard thing to gauge, and I hope you didn't take my shushing of you too personally (same to you Boro & Finduilas) when I felt things were going too far on Day 2. Not only was modfire a concern, but the balance was so much at stake that I liked the idea of potentially being the only Ordo sold on Pitch's role, and supporting lynchings by means of making accusations.

But once the Gal55-wagon happened and people said what they did on Day 2, I knew it was over- it was just a matter of time. So after that I saw no reason to agonizingly drag things out, which I figured would feel like torture to a side with no legitimate hope at that stage, so I became more aggressive Day 3 about ending it.

Anyway, at the very least it was a delight to vote for the same person three days in a row. :D

[Mithalwen]

http://pics.livejournal.com/mithalwen/pic/0000d5gy

Sorry I am not very artistic... or used to paint...

[Folwren]

Haha. You'd all probably be surprised at how close I came to seriously considering putting in a werebear-ish sort of character. :eek:

So....now that people have expressed what they liked and disliked about this game - if different rules were made to make the setup more even, would this general game set-up be worth while playing again? (Not that I'm planning to in the near future or even ever, necessarily, I just would like to know that maybe this idea could work...I don't like something of mine beinga complete failure. ;) )

-- Folwren

[Mithalwen]

I am probably not the person to ask but I think something could be done maybe if htere was a set up a bit like in Saucepan man's game where there were two wolf teams. I have been watching a serial about british agents working with the resistance where the different cells were kept separate for security reasons and of course there was the De Gaulle resisitance and the Communist resistance.... maybe if there was effectively a double agent in one group and they don't know which?

[Galadriel55]

So....now that people have expressed what they liked and disliked about this game - if different rules were made to make the setup more even, would this general game set-up be worth while playing again? (Not that I'm planning to in the near future or even ever, necessarily, I just would like to know that maybe this idea could work...I don't like something of mine beinga complete failure. ;) )

-- Folwren

It wasn't a complete failure, Foley, I don't think so... And I think it would be even with some of the ideas hat were said. I thik that if the rules say that the game ends when the KD is killed, it makes the role near impossible. But a werebear or at least a cobbler might help.

Edit: xed with Mith. The double-pack idea is insane!!! in a good way. And it could very well even out the game.

[Inziladun]

The double-pack idea is insane!!! in a good way. And it could very well even out the game.

Lottie's first modded game (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=16386) featured two competing packs, and it turned out to be delightful. Right, Pitch? :D

[the phantom]

One thing I definitely think should be repeated is the setting. I liked the idea of treachery at the Lonely Mountain. It was a good Middle-Earth story, and with more time on my hands (and probably the same goes for others) I would've tried a bit of RPGing. Especially if Kuru was in the game, heh.

[Folwren]

One thing I definitely think should be repeated is the setting. I liked the idea of treachery at the Lonely Mountain. It was a good Middle-Earth story, and with more time on my hands (and probably the same goes for others) I would've tried a bit of RPGing. Especially if Kuru was in the game, heh.

This game with RPGing would've been awesome, I agree.

I am probably not the person to ask but I think something could be done maybe if htere was a set up a bit like in Saucepan man's game where there were two wolf teams. I have been watching a serial about british agents working with the resistance where the different cells were kept separate for security reasons and of course there was the De Gaulle resisitance and the Communist resistance.... maybe if there was effectively a double agent in one group and they don't know which?

Did the two wolf teams work against each other, or with each other?

If you all would like to know, the story idea came from the Sherlock Holmes story The Valley of Fear. I love that story and I don't know how soon after reading it that I got the idea that it'd make a really cool WW game.

[Mithalwen]

Um we were working for ourselvesbut when our pack were doomed we tried to help the other pack though officially we lost when they won, I think Boro was Beorn with his own agenda... it is a while ago now.. we each got a kill bt we could kill each other I think

[the phantom]

I know one of my games featured two competing teams of two Werewolves, but the village had no idea. One night the Ranger actually protected one of the Wolves from the other team, ha ha! :D

To balance out that the WWs were competing with each other, every villager (other than the three gifteds) was a Cobbler.

[Pitchwife]

Did Foley not tell you that I guessed you the third night? She had informed me that no conversation would take place the first night I found you, but I asked her to at least inform you that I had successfully found you, and I have no idea if she did.
No, she didn't - which was just as well; meaning it would have been a little too much to ask for a Sweetheart to PM with on top of everything else. But I did some bluffing the Night before and told the Forge about some gorgeous she-dwarf with a silky golden beard.

The KD setup reminds me of Eönwë's long ago Night Guard (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=15675) game, in which I was the "saboteur" wolf, secretly on the side of the village. If I remember correctly, the village didn't even know one of the wolves was on their side, which made my job that much more difficult. Maybe having the KD's sympathies unknown to the innocents would have helped balance things here.
Ah, those were my newbie days... wasn't that the game where I went out on a limb defending you and almost kept you from getting yourself lynched on purpose, or some such?
At any rate, Pitch was able to bring about a village victory here, where I failed miserably in a similar situation. :rolleyes:
Oh come on, that's not fair. Your situation was a good deal more difficult then - we didn't know you were on our side, and any hints about your task probably wouldn't have been believed. With such premises, the KD role would have been rather more challenging.

Lottie's first modded game (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=16386) featured two competing packs, and it turned out to be delightful. Right, Pitch? :D
Yep. Each pack had to defeat the other as well as the village, and each had a Seerwolf, a Rangerwolf and another gifted. That was fun.

[Inziladun]

Ah, those were my newbie days... wasn't that the game where I went out on a limb defending you and almost kept you from getting yourself lynched on purpose, or some such?

Something like that, though it's hard to remember specifics from so far back.

Oh come on, that's not fair. Your situation was a good deal more difficult then - we didn't know you were on our side, and any hints about your task probably wouldn't have been believed. With such premises, the KD role would have been rather more challenging.

Yeah, maybe. That still smarts, though, as I feel now I could have done a good deal better.

Yep. Each pack had to defeat the other as well as the village, and each had a Seerwolf, a Rangerwolf and another gifted. That was fun.

The third Giftedwolf was the ever-popular Unicorn, which I think was you that time. ;)

By the way, I much approve of Mith's Emergency Werebear. :D

[McCaber]

I know one of my games featured two competing teams of two Werewolves, but the village had no idea. One night the Ranger actually protected one of the Wolves from the other team, ha ha! :D

To balance out that the WWs were competing with each other, every villager (other than the three gifteds) was a Cobbler.

Oh man I think I remember reading that game just after I joined here. I can tell you, I did not see those cobblers coming.

And it came down to the last day, too, IIRC. One nervous wolf in a city full of cobblers, and the gifted was ranting about how nothing seemed to get done.

[Glirdan]

I must apologize to everyone. After my return from my cousins wedding, I was met with some very unhappy circumstances and also no access to a computer. I had my IPod, but for anyone who has that (or an IPhone) could tell you, it gets to be a giant pain to post anything. Couple that with working full time again, and I just couldn't do it :( Sorry for the massive inconvienience :(

[Inziladun]

As punishment for your desertion you'll be the first lynched next g.....wait, never mind. :p

[the phantom]

It's fine, Glirdan. If you wouldn't have dropped out then I would've been wrong in my assumption that someone would drop out. (Phantom's rightness is entirely dependent upon the actions of others rather than any inherent magical ability. He can only exist as he does with your most kind indulgence.)

[Folwren]

It's okay, Glirdan. The village was in no dire need of extra citizens to act as a buffer against losing. :rolleyes:

[Nerwen]

Hey, I made some heated comments up there– sorry about that.

I like the SH idea, other places should be balances though. Maybe not having the NWD-KD connection?
It depends. You would need something like that *if* you went back to the original conception– i.e. having the KD's death end the game.

Did I do anything particularly obvious? I mean, I know I stood up for Pitch about the whole modfire thing, but that was because he really hadn't done anything against the rules. I'm not necessarily surprised that you knew who I was, but I would be interesting in knowing how. :)

It was that, pretty much, that and your spirited defence of him at a time when the rest of the village was looking at him askance. And no, I never considered Zil as a possible SH. Somehow you just sounded too much as if you were anxious specifically because it was *Pitch*. That may sound vague, but I can tell you I was sure enough that I was already making plans for dealing with you, in the event that Pitch was lynched.

[Galadriel55]

Hmm, we still didn't find out what the Gifteds' abilities were. I'm dying of curiosity. :cool: