WW: LXXXVIII - Trouble in the Misty Mountains: Game Thread

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'm more thinking just different meanings. By agreeable I assume you meant I was mimicking what people were saying, which to me, is flat out untrue. Sounds like though you say I'm coming off as "Mr. Nice Guy" though? Trying to sweet talk people with calmness.
The second is what I mean, and I said it also back then, I think I used words like "honey-tongued" or something. So yes, when I say "Mr. Agreeable", I mean by that "not responding aggressively, or even not questioning people so much in general, but acting more like 'yes, my friend, you have a good point'".

You will probably say this makes me agreeable, but I do admit to not giving any substantial look at Nerwen. That mostly comes from a history of being unable to figure her out and then flat out fear. My general impression, based on yesterday, is that G55 was acting like a loon and I can't find suspicion against Nerwen for that carnival show. G55 did a good job making people think she was a wolf. And also, because of G55's eratic behavior, it put Nerwen in a defensive position, which has carried over to the suspicion today.
The last sentence is true and something worth thinking about. However, the same way indeed you should not probably just go over Nerwen's posts - or others' suspicions against her, more like - with the attitude "nah, this is all just born out of yesterDay, I know she is being wronged here, I don't even need to consider whether it does not have any real basis" (I'm saying that because I know from experience it's easy to do that). But yes, well, balance of opinions needs to be maintained.

Now I have looked at the voting lists, I will maybe think about them still for a while just in case I don't get some brilliant idea... while doing that, I have also actually reread large parts of the thread. Looking at it, I am now feeling more on the "I think nobody is a Wolf" side - or in fact, I started thinking how, erm, hilarious it would be if the Wolves were Laeko and Azura (and somebody who keeps just hiding well, but then again, not sure if there is anybody exactly like that right now). But I guess (I hope) nobody (meaning: no Wolf pack) could be that lucky (to end up in such a constellation). Aside from that, I would be inclined to think Sally's death was carefully planned, and somehow it seems difficult to imagine the coordination with group of the "hiding" kind.

If I wanted to look at the "worst" votes overall I think it could be for example Kit's, or at least the yesterDay's one, in the start, I don't quite like it, as the first (the other one was this triple-cross, so who knows what to make of it). There are some people of whom there are some missing votes (aside from Laeko and Azura, there's Greenie who already voted toDay but did not vote on Day 1, however with explanation), which makes them more difficult to analyse.

Last of all, once again re-read some quotes of Nerwen, and even now with bearing what Boro said in mind, some of those still look a bit Wolvish, like (to Gal):

And should you happen to turn out innocent– which is seeming less and less likely– my excuse would of course be that I thought you were probably a wolf, from your conduct. Which I do.

There are these "pre-emptive" words. Once again one could start asking if a Wolf would so "bluntly" post something like that. But then again, why would an innocent say that, too?

I think I might still take a look at Inzil - there is still the possibility of him being "the slippery one" and the TEW thing being really a preemptive strike based on fear of the Seer who dreamt of Zil, and then I'll see about my vote.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hm. I don't know about Zil. Sort of dark area for me, still too much. I have also reread some posts by Greenie, now I am inclined to count her among the innocent.

Of all people, Nerwen still looks to me the most voteworthy, but it would be really nice if she still posted at least once before I have to go, so that I could compare some "fresh" posts of hers, too.

Okay, will be back in some time - let's say fifteen, twenty minutes - and then vote, because it is getting close to 3 AM here. Heck, am I supposed to start to be like Nogrod, since we don't have him in this game? ;) :rolleyes:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh come on, that was nearly half an hour (or more by the time I finish this...). If there are any Wolves lurking around and avoiding posting, I hope they are lynched a painful lynch.

Zil definitely deserves a second look, for future reference - he is sort of floating on the edge of the debate, adding a bit here and there, very sort of "defensive" or maybe rather "pre-emptive", that's better word - very careful in pointing out how he did not want to vote Pitch, how he was freaked out by other people voting Pitch too (why did you vote him, then?), next Day immediately making sure he posts explanations as to why did he vote him, yesterDay making a vote when the bandwagon was already running smoothly, making several posts with little substance or lot of uncertainity, like this:

Boro is up to something. Good? Evil? Meh.
(...)
Greenie seems sharp somehow. Not really sure what I mean by that, but she makes sense and gives me pause at the same time.

= saying nothing, and yet this was quite a substantial portion of his post...

And so on. But nevertheless, this is all to remark that it might be good to look at him. As for my current vote, I will go with my original option, that is,

++Nerwen

And good Night, village.

[Inziladun]

I think this actually looks more like a coded list than anything Sally posted– note all the "undecideds" and "not sure about alignments". It is true that only one person (Kath) is in the "good vibes" category, but Seers don't always list the people they know of together– too much of a giveaway– and I'd accept Legate's being "fine this far" as a near-equivalent.

I'm just wondering why the wolves bit on Sally instead.

Well, let's see. I don't see anything really noteworthy about Greenie's list there. It is a bit curious that while Sally had expressed suspicion of you, it was Greenie who had voted for you Day 2. It doesn't mean I don't have my doubts about you, but it's food for thought.

And Boro, I'm not going to line by line go through your analysis of me. If it seems off that I made a point of saying what I did and why, so be it. When I stressed that I had not only been involved in the Pitch-wagon but had been the first vote as well, my intention was to be fair. I'm not worried about my actions. Let people take them as they will.

x/d with Legate

[Inziladun]

Zil definitely deserves a second look, for future reference - he is sort of floating on the edge of the debate, adding a bit here and there, very sort of "defensive" or maybe rather "pre-emptive", that's better word - very careful in pointing out how he did not want to vote Pitch, how he was freaked out by other people voting Pitch too (why did you vote him, then?)

I answered already that here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=663124&postcount=117).


next Day immediately making sure he posts explanations as to why did he vote him, yesterDay making a vote when the bandwagon was already running smoothly, making several posts with little substance or lot of uncertainity, like this:

As a matter of fact, I have been rather uncertain. As for why I explained things the way I did, see here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=663334&postcount=254).

[Nerwen]

Legate–

I've had this. Once again– I put forward the "Boro theory" early in the day, and did not continue after Greenie pointed out the discrepancy.

I did not "push it" at any point. You, on the other hand, have constantly been repeating that I have been in an apparent attempt to hypnotise the village into thinking this must be the case.

It has gone past the point where I can believe it an innocent mistake.

[Nerwen]

Oh, and similarly the repetition of "she's so jumpy" (i.e. supposedly wolvish.) Yeah, because I argued against you and objected to your weirdly over-the-top aggression. Oh, yes, how very terribly evil of me, Legate.:rolleyes:

[Boromir88]

Day 1

First post with substance is #48 and about Pitch.

Thing is, on previous showing, Bom is a very easy target. (Hope you don't mind my saying that, Bom.) Pitch knows this well, even if you don't– which does make me wonder about him, yes it does. And then, his switching to G55, also a novice player with a bit of a history of attracting suspicion– hmmn.

On the other hand, his cases on both of them were sound enough, by Day One standards– and someone had to get the ball rolling...

Looks reasonable. Yes, there is the "suspecting" and "maybe not" look. But it's a fair point on Pitch's actions and looks more like a Lommy flip-flopping, since she brings up a good counter argument.

#52 is
I was pointing out his perhaps opportunistic choice of targets– so yes, I suppose that's "casting suspicion". Is that a problem?

Less material = quicker analysis. It's easier, but lazier. And generally less useful, since mostly you're just pointing out what anyone else could see at a glance.

Nerwen being straight forward. Maybe some have an issue with the tone, but she's never been one to shy away from being blunt.

#60, remarks on the strangeness of the Pitch-wagon and notices G55 mixed up Pitch and Bom. G55 was trying to refer to the time when there was some heat between Bom and me, but it looked like she was saying Pitch and me.

#64, agrees that Kath's vote for sally was suspect and could vote for Kath, because she didn't want a universal bandwagon against Pitch.

I might vote her, simply *because* I don't want a universal bandwaggon – and yeah, her vote was suspect, all right. The only thing I could say about it, really, is that this being *Kath*, she may honestly not realise what you're *supposed* to do on Day One. (Trouble is, looking at Kath tnds to bring Pitch back into it anyway.)

I'll have to wait until I go through Day 2 more thorougly, until I can get a clearer view on the above quote. because I think Nerwen's post here was one of the bigger reasons G55 was suspicious of Nerwen yesterday.

I definitely recall G55 giving "spite" as a reason of voting Pitch on Day 1. So, I don't know how Nerwen stating she didn't want a universal bandwagon, and that Kath's vote did look suspicious looks any worse than G55's Day 1 vote.

Day 2

#87, is Nerwen's conclusions on why TEW was killed. I didn't see much of a conclusion, more a statement of all the possible explanations. It would be a long quote, so here's the post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=663087&postcount=87). Although, in this post, she seemed to favor the argument that TEW was killed because the wolves thought he was the seer.

#94, several things here. First she brings up TEW would not have been high on her kill list (Legate questions who would be later, and Nerwen gives it). Again, Nerwen is not one to shy from at least giving blunt answers.

G55 said if the wolves thought TEW was the Ranger or Hunter, they could have just got him lynched. Nerwen replied:

Not really– that kind of thing can backfire pretty badly. Gifteds do have a nasty habit of revealing on the way to the gallows, after all.

And then she tells Legate that this G55 quote looks like nightly wolf communications:
I am very surprised that they killed TEW. He got a couple votes yesterDay, and with a bit of persuation could have easily been lynched toDay. My conclusion: why should they waste a Nightkill on him when they could have easily got rid of him the next Day? Did they really think he was a gifted? Or, perhaps, just to stirr something up....
If this was the beginning of Nerwen's suspicions against G55 then I think it looks reasonable. Granted, Nerwen is a sly player to accuse reasonably, especially when someone is getting as crazy acting as G55 got yesterday.

Oh man, I forgot how long these took. If it does any good I'll continue going through them, but Nerwen's posted more than anyone else and I'm getting a bit exhausted.

My conclusion before the end of the Day 2 shenanigans is Nerwen's been blunt and combative (as usual), so doesn't tell me much on her role. Although, I hardly think G55 had good suspicions against Nerwen and so I'm not understanding the suspicions now. But let me look at Greenie, Legate and some other reasons given today more.

(I better have crossed since I came back after Inzil's post following Legate's flood posting)

[Kitanna]

Well, I need to vote now and go to bed. I've been wrong about three of my highest suspects. I hope I get it right this time.

++ Legate

I've stated my reasons earlier. I'm sorry I don't have time to restate them.

[Boromir88]

I believe the count is...

Greenie ---> Nerwen
Kath ---> Greenie
Legate ---> Nerwen (2)
Kitanna ---> Legate

This is not going to be a fun 2+ hours. I was hoping to spend it figuring out if there's a wolf between Nerwen and Legate, which one is it? Or if they're distracted by being so suspicious of each other. But second guessing and doubting if sally dreamed 2 live innocent (Kath and Kitanna).

For at least the rest of the night, I'm just going to continue assuming Kit and Kath were dreamed innocent. Should I bother with another look do to second guessing?

Put a gun to my head and I can remember that Nerwen hasn't tried to appeal to my opinion, or "get me on her side" if you will. She's really just been consistant and blunt, and asked for opinions at times. And I really don't see Legate's point here:

And should you happen to turn out innocent– which is seeming less and less likely– my excuse would of course be that I thought you were probably a wolf, from your conduct. Which I do.

There are these "pre-emptive" words. Once again one could start asking if a Wolf would so "bluntly" post something like that. But then again, why would an innocent say that, too?

I have no doubt Nerwen would be blunt enough to say that as a wolf, but you're really taking that quote out of context. I remember G55 saying something like "Oh and when I'm lynched and proven innocent, what will your excuse be?" (yes, paraphrasing, but that was the gist). To which Nerwen replied quoted above.

Why would an innocent say that? Well, it looks rather true to me for one. G55 was willingly trying to look like a wolf. I think what it is, Legate, is you just weren't at the DL yesterday. Can you not see the frustration those antics caused? At least, on my part, I had spent over an hour trying to figure it out, but G55 started bouncing around saying she's a wolf and all but mocking us to go ahead and vote.

And I remember Nerwen was beginning to doubt because G55 had been setting up some sort of grand reveal, but she never did reveal. So, yes, I completely understand the frustration, and from my perspective G55 dug her own grave very well, which is how I was reading Nerwen's comments.

Now maybe if she did reveal it wouldn't have made much of a difference, considering the voting at that point. But if she said she was the hunter, I would not have expected a wolf to fake-reveal as the hunter at that time. And would have started trying to see if there was any chance to save G55. But G55 didn't seem to want saving.

[Inziladun]

Greenie-->Nerwen (1)
Kath-->Greenie (1)
Legate-->Nerwen (2)
Kitanna-->Legate (1)

So, no one's interested in voting Kitanna? I'd like to vote for her, but if no one follows up it'll be a waste.

Of the three that have votes, I can't see myself voting for Greenie. I just don't see much there that's terribly worrisome.

I can see the point some have made about Legate trying to stretch things.

Sally had Nerwen down as one she was concerned about, but if it was only based on normal thread observation, that doesn't mean much. Still, the opinion of a known innocent is at least trustworthy. I just don't know.

x/d with Boro

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nerwen
I think this actually looks more like a coded list than anything Sally posted– note all the "undecideds" and "not sure about alignments". It is true that only one person (Kath) is in the "good vibes" category, but Seers don't always list the people they know of together– too much of a giveaway– and I'd accept Legate's being "fine this far" as a near-equivalent.

I'm just wondering why the wolves bit on Sally instead.
Well, let's see. I don't see anything really noteworthy about Greenie's list there. It is a bit curious that while Sally had expressed suspicion of you, it was Greenie who had voted for you Day 2. It doesn't mean I don't have my doubts about you, but it's food for thought.
But compare this to Greenie's own rather convoluted reasoning behind voting me toDay. According to her own logic, she should have been killed ahead of Sally.

EDIT:X'd with Zil and Boro.

[Boromir88]

So, no one's interested in voting Kitanna? I'd like to vote for her, but if no one follows up it'll be a waste.


I take it you didn't see the rather obvious statement of Kit being on her side that I quoted? :rolleyes:

I think it came when I crossed on your post detailing your suspicions against Kit.

[Inziladun]

But compare this to Greenie's own rather convoluted reasoning behind voting me toDay. According to her own logic, she should have been killed ahead of Sally.

Yes, I know. Greenie just hasn't seemed fishy to me though. And it's very difficult to trust you.

I take it you didn't see the rather obvious statement of Kit being on her side that I quoted? :rolleyes:

I think it came when I crossed on your post detailing your suspicions against Kit.

Yes, and I responded by saying I disagreed with your conclusion. I thought it had the look of a throwaway remark about GoT.

[Nerwen]

And it's very difficult to trust you.
Well, I could certainly return the complement...

Yes, and I responded by saying I disagreed with your conclusion. I thought it had the look of a throwaway remark about GoT.
It may have been– I don't find it as conclusive as Boro seems to, because of the context– but all the same, Sally knew herself to be the Seer when she made it. That ought to count for something.

[Inziladun]

Well, I could certainly return the complement...

No doubt. :rolleyes:

Trouble is, I don't know about Legate either. And I have to decide soon.

[Boromir88]

Yes, and I responded by saying I disagreed with your conclusion. I thought it had the look of a throwaway remark about GoT.

Ahh missed that post. My bad. Still, if sally-seer were to slip in a hint somewhere. Don't you think a literary or movie reference would be a sally way to go about it?

Also, you shouldn't really discard the fact that the seer made a stronger statement about knowing Kit was on her side more than any statement regarding anyone else.

[Laeko_Randalis]

Boromir seems to have maintained logical arguments this entire time, and has come to earn my trust. If he's a werewolf, he deserves to kill me for how legit he's made himself look.

Nerwen is seeming a bit suspicious in terms of projecting a sort of argumentative vibe, but then again, most of what I've been noticing in terms of her posts is defending herself, and when everyone's paranoid (which we all should be), that's at least somewhat understandable.

After all, yesterday I'd been noticing Nerwen and Galadriel acting very similarly, and then I went and voted to lynch the blasted Hunter! Given none of the wolves have yet been lynched, my immediate conclusion for losing two gifteds in one night was "well, we're definitely screwed now."

[Nerwen]

Well then. If we all hold our votes much longer, I die by default anyway. That would be very bad.

So–

++Legate.

[Inziladun]

So let's see, if I want my vote to count, it seems I have to vote for:

1. Nerwen, who I have reservations about, but who admittedly as a wolf should have been more worried about Greenie as a Seer than Sally;

2. Legate, who does seem to be reaching a bit to make some of his points, but has also received a vote from someone I'm not comfortable with (Kit);

or

3. Greenie, who hasn't stood out as particularly suspicious thus far, beyond the fixation on Nerwen.

x/d with Nerwen

[Inziladun]

I have got to go to bed.

++Legate

If he turns out innocent, that's not going to help Kit in my eyes.

[Boromir88]

Anyone else here to cast a vote...Laeko? Azura?

[Laeko_Randalis]

++Nerwen

So, who shall break the tie?

[Boromir88]

++Nerwen

So, who shall break the tie?

Thanks, just when I thought you were looking fairly innocent.

[Boromir88]

This is going to make me nervous, I really don't trust Inzil, and his vote for Legate, plus general interaction with Nerwen looks frankly...odd.

But I rather think Nerwen looks pretty innocent.

Agghhh

++Legate

[Nerwen]

Gosh, I hope neither of the newbies are evil– they've posted so little we'll never get anything on them.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Ugh. Power outage combined with time change = a Shasta who falls asleep.

You lynched Legate, and he was simply an Ordo. I find myself updating from my phone every time, now, for some reason.

Night starts.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

During the night, Kitanna (Ordo) was eaten by the wolves.

Day starts now.

Also, for those who are wondering, people alive are:

Kath
Boro
Nerwen
Greenie
Inziladun
Laeko_Rundalis
Azura

Both newbies are in danger of being modkilled.

[Nerwen]

Both newbies are in danger of being modkilled.

Why? Laeko voted yesterDay.

–Anyway. I am getting most frustrated by this game. Obviously, the wolves have been very clever, with their divide-and-conquer tactics, but I think it only fair to say they've had both luck and help from the village (what with the Hunter deciding to go kamikaze, and all– still scratching my head over that one). Not only that, but the number of ordos who have allowed themselves to be manipulated into going after me... well, again, frustrating. I mean, I suppose I should be flattered everyone fears me so much, but having to be on the defensive Day after Day, and to no purpose, is just draining.

So, who has been doing the manipulating? I was thinking in the Night that, as far as this "get Nerwen" business goes, they're likely taking different sides, with one wolf encouraging suspicion against me and another taking my part, at least to the extent of "saving" me by voting other innocents. Boro+Kit or Zil+Greenie seemed likely pairings, with Wolf 3 one of the newbies. And now that Kit is dead, it's looking like the second option.

Mind you, I can't rule out something more complicated– for example Boro and Zil could be doing a particularly fine, elaborate and well-acted wolf-on-wolf routine. Or we could even be in one of those ill-fated madhouse villages where everyone slaughters each other with only minimal and subtle lupine encouragement. This does happen. All the same, Zil and Greenie are, as of yesterDay, also the players with the most points against them individually.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Why? Laeko voted yesterDay.

–Anyway. I am getting most frustrated by this game. Obviously, the wolves have been very clever, with their divide-and-conquer tactics, but I think it only fair to say they've had both luck and help from the village (what with the Hunter deciding to go kamikaze, and all– still scratching my head over that one). Not only that, but the number of ordos who have allowed themselves to be manipulated into going after me... well, again, frustrating. I mean, I suppose I should be flattered everyone fears me so much, but having to be on the defensive Day after Day, and to no purpose, is just draining.

So, who has been doing the manipulating? I was thinking in the Night that, as far as this "get Nerwen" business goes, they're likely taking different sides, with one wolf encouraging suspicion against me and another taking my part, at least to the extent of "saving" me by voting other innocents. Boro+Kit or Zil+Greenie seemed likely pairings, with Wolf 3 one of the newbies. And now that Kit is dead, it's looking like the second option.

Mind you, I can't rule something more complicated– for example Boro and Zil could be doing a particularly fine, elaborate and well-acted wolf-on-wolf routine. Or we could even be in one of those ill-fated madhouse villages where everyone slaughters each other with only minimal and subtle lupine encouragement. This does happen. All the same, Zil and Greenie are, as of yesterDay, also the players with the most points against them individually.

I must have missed that. Sorry, Laeko!

Azura, however, has posted all of one time on this thread. Shasta v. unhappy.

[A Little Green]

Votes Nerwen based on previous reasons and based on the idea that the wolves would try to protect WolfNerwen by killing SeerSally. Rather assumes the wolves had figured out sally was the Seer despite her just saying that sally wasn't an obvious Seer.Agh. What I meant was that because Sally wasn't an obvious Seer, the wolves must have had some reason to pick her over other possible Seers. (It is also possible, of course, that they weren't going after the Seer at all - though that would be a weird thing to do - or that their reason for picking Sally was something else.)
And Greenie, glad you don't want to get into the semantics. If I was coming off as bullish, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to. I was trying to expresss the frustration, while also saying if you suspect me, then suspect me. Because I know you're better than that to give me a fair chance to defend suspicions.That's fine - and I promise that if I actually do start suspecting you, I'll do it properly. :D

[A Little Green]

Also, Nerwen's conviction that the ongoing suspicion of her is result of evil manipulation is, while understandable, also a bit too harsh to my taste. How can you know, as an innocent?

[Nerwen]

Agh. What I meant was that because Sally wasn't an obvious Seer, the wolves must have had some reason to pick her over other possible Seers.
But that would be rather a feeble one, wouldn't it? And as I pointed out yesterDay, according to your theory, you yourself should have been the one picked, not Sally. You *voted* me, after all.

(It is also possible, of course, that they weren't going after the Seer at all - though that would be a weird thing to do - or that their reason for picking Sally was something else.)
Like what?

Also, Nerwen's conviction that the ongoing suspicion of her is result of evil manipulation is, while understandable, also a bit too harsh to my taste. How can you know, as an innocent?
Well, we *are" playing *Werewolf*, Greenie. I mean, evil manipulation it's what wolves are *supposed* to do, right? And as matter of face, though, I didn't say I *knew* this. To quote myself–
Or we could even be in one of those ill-fated madhouse villages where everyone slaughters each other with only minimal and subtle lupine encouragement. This does happen.

[A Little Green]

Just to get an idea of who, why and in what context the living players voted on the past Days. Conclusions to follow.

DAY 1 VOTES
(living players bolded)

Kath – Sally
I feel she's a player that shows her mettle better under a bit of pressure. I know she's got the brains. Let's see 'em! She also expressed, earlier in the Day, criticism of Sally's joking attitude.

Pitch – Gal
Legate – EW

Inzil – Pitch
There was the accusation of me "harping' about the guide being partly responsible for our predicament (which I mentioned in only two halfhearted IC posts). Then his interactions with Bom, followed by the sudden switching of targets to G55.

Kit – Pitch (2)
Gal – Pitch (3)
Bom – Pitch (4)

Boro – Kath
I usually can never figure out sally until she is under some good suspicion either, but a trumped up vote with the sole reason of hoping to get sally to talk, does raise a warning.

EW – Inzil
Sally – EW (2)

Nerwen – Kath (2)
I might vote her, simply *because* I don't want a universal bandwaggon – and yeah, her vote was suspect, all right. The only thing I could say about it, really, is that this being *Kath*, she may honestly not realise what you're *supposed* to do on Day One. (Trouble is, looking at Kath tnds to bring Pitch back into it anyway.)

No vote: Azura, Greenie, Laeko

[A Little Green]

DAY 2 VOTES

Kit – Bom

Greenie – Nerwen
In pointing out Pitch's suspicious behaviour but leaving the end with an open hmmn, she urges others to suspect Pitch without really involving herself. And indeed, she washes her hands as soon as Pitch gets votes.

Kath – Inzil
Inzil for apologising for voting Pitch. I just find that very suspicious. It's like going 'Oh silly me! Don't blame me now, will you?'

Legate – Gal
Gal – Nerwen (2)
Sally – Gal (2)

Laeko – Gal (3)
Having read the discussion, that leaves Nerwen and Galadriel. What strikes me as both hilarious and confusing simultaneously is that the two seem to have engaged in quite the argument. Now, that could potentially mean that a) neither of them is is a wolf but they suspect each other, b) one of them is and is trying to make the other one look it so as to avoid attracting attention herself, or c) both of them are and one of the werewolves is getting betrayed. c) is illogical because it's far too early in the game. This is why I decided to wait further.

Inzil – Gal (4)
I believe I could go for G55 based on what Nerwen's said, as well as the fact that she was involved in the Pitch-wagon yesterDay (along with, coincidentally, I'm sure, Bom ). It's hard for me to believe no wolves were involved with that.

Azura – Sally
because of her earlier posts

Boro – Gal (5)
:/ *sigh* *bedtime* See y'all toMorrow, unless you lynch me *glares at villagers* or kill me *glares at wolves*.
Granted bandwagons can form out of nowhere, but that came after she saw the 3 votes for Pitch. And yesterday, aside from Pitch (who had already voted for her), I don't recall many supsicious reactions towards her.

And then today with just the making jokes about being a wolf. I don't get the point of doing that, and more often then not it's what always made me suspicious of Fea.

Nerwen – Gal (6)
(Couldn't find one quote of reasonable length summing up her reasons, but they were pretty much at each other's throats all Day.)

[A Little Green]

DAY 3

Greenie – Nerwen
Nothing she has said has made me change my impression of her. Additionally, Sally suspected her late on Day 2. No, I'm not saying she was dreamed of; I think it's pretty obvious that she was not. But the thing is, Sally wasn't, at least in my mind, an obviously Seer-looking Seer. So if the wolves had a few options, it seems plausible that they'd go for the possible Seer that was most likely to dream one of them the next Night.

Kath – Greenie
For such a flip floppy Nerwen vote. Either sally was an obvious Seer who the wolves were afraid would dream of NerwenWolf, or sally was not an obvious Seer. I just don't think you can have it both ways.

Legate – Nerwen (2)
Kit – Legate

Nerwen – Legate (2)
You, on the other hand, have constantly been repeating that I have been in an apparent attempt to hypnotise the village into thinking this must be the case.

It has gone past the point where I can believe it an innocent mistake.

Inzil – Legate (3)
2. Legate, who does seem to be reaching a bit to make some of his points, but has also received a vote from someone I'm not comfortable with (Kit)

Laeko – Nerwen (3)
Nerwen is seeming a bit suspicious in terms of projecting a sort of argumentative vibe, but then again, most of what I've been noticing in terms of her posts is defending herself, and when everyone's paranoid (which we all should be), that's at least somewhat understandable.

Boro – Legate (4)
But I rather think Nerwen looks pretty innocent.

AgghhhThere was also their earlier lengthy argument about whether or not Boro was being agreeable.

No vote: Azura

[A Little Green]

But that would be rather a feeble one, wouldn't it? And as I pointed out yesterDay, according to your theory, you yourself should have been the one picked, not Sally. You *voted* me, after all.That's true, I guess, and something I had not considered. Might be there was something else either Sally or I said to make them pick her over me - her suspicion of a second wolf, or my declaration of the innocence of another. Or might be that I was off about Sally's suspicion of you having to do with her death. Either way, we can't really know - or even find new information about it - which is why this gets, in my opinion at least, too speculative to be of any real importance.
Like what?That is, in fact, exactly why I ended up suggesting that they thought her the most dangerous out of several possible Seers; I couldn't think of other things that would have led to the wolves picking her.
Well, we *are" playing *Werewolf*, Greenie. I mean, evil manipulation it's what wolves are *supposed* to do, right? And as matter of face, though, I didn't say I *knew* this.Agreed on both accounts. But. Concerning your first statement - that evil manipulation is what wolves do doesn't automatically mean that it's what the suspicion of you is about. Concerning the second - I didn't talk about knowing, I talked about conviction, and semantics or not but I think there is a significant difference between the two. While not directly saying that you know you're being set up by manipulative wolves, you state it as a fact, and add the part you quoted afterwards as an alternate scenario. I think there is a notable difference between the first two quotes below and the last one: Not only that, but the number of ordos who have allowed themselves to be manipulated into going after me...
So, who has been doing the manipulating?
compared with
Or we could even be in one of those ill-fated madhouse villages where everyone slaughters each other with only minimal and subtle lupine encouragement. This does happen.

[Nerwen]

Like what?
That is, in fact, exactly why I ended up suggesting that they thought her the most dangerous out of several possible Seers; I couldn't think of other things that would have led to the wolves picking her.
And yet, you found this sufficient reason to vote me.

Well, we *are" playing *Werewolf*, Greenie. I mean, evil manipulation it's what wolves are *supposed* to do, right? And as matter of face, though, I didn't say I *knew* this.
Agreed on both accounts. But. Concerning your first statement - that evil manipulation is what wolves do doesn't automatically mean that it's what the suspicion of you is about. Concerning the second - I didn't talk about knowing, I talked about conviction, and semantics or not but I think there is a significant difference between the two. While not directly saying that you know you're being set up by manipulative wolves, you state it as a fact, and add the part you quoted afterwards as an alternate scenario.
And this is important to you– why?

[A Little Green]

Looking at the votes -

Inzil's voting has been really easy; in fact, he voted for the most popular candidate every Day. (And someone called Boro Mr. Agreeable?) YesterDay, though, he did make it clear he didn't suspect any of the Day's lynch candidates in earnest.

Kath, by contrast, has been an independent voter, not involved in any of the bandwaggons that have taken place. Her Day 1 vote for Sally was considered suspicious by some; I see the point though I didn't and don't really suspect her.

Nerwen - I think I have ranted enough about her Day 1 vote to last a lifetime, so I won't get into that. The latter two were both result of a Day-long back-and-forth, first with Gal, then with Legate. The second was also a self-preservation vote.

Boro - Brought up Kath as a new lynch candidate on Day 1. The latter two Days he voted for Gal and Legate. I find it hard to say much about his votes, if truth be told - I disagreed with two of them (both Kath and Legate seemed innocent to me), but his reasons were sound enough. If Nerwen is a wolf, I'd hazard a guess that Boro is, too - but until we have information, any such speculation is no valid reason for any conclusion whatsoever.

Azura - Well. There's little to say.

Laeko - I'd like a clarification for the reasons behind her Gal vote, I'm not sure I really understood them. Her votes, Gal on Day 2 and Nerwen on Day 3, were both rather conventional ones.

My look at the votes made me somewhat suspicious of Inzil and feeling no better about Nerwen. Even if those two actually are wolves, that would still leave a third. I haven't had a look yet at how those two interact together - might be there's no way they could be in it together. But if neither of them is guilty, I'll eat my hat.

[A Little Green]

And yet, you found this sufficient reason to vote me.I did not. Alone, that would have been a ridiculously flimsy reason to vote anybody. I had other reasons to suspect you. That one only got so much space in my vote post because it was the only one I had not stated a hunderd times before alredy.
And this is important to you– why?I elaborated because you asked. If you mean more generally - well, I found it curious that you state as a fact that the village is being manipulated against you.

[Nerwen]

I did not. Alone, that would have been a ridiculously flimsy reason to vote anybody. I had other reasons to suspect you. That one only got so much space in my vote post because it was the only one I had not stated a hunderd times before alredy.
Well, off the top of my head, the only reason I can remember is my Day One vote for Kath. And I think that's pretty thin, too, quite frankly.

I elaborated because you asked. If you mean more generally - well, I found it curious that you state as a fact that the village is being manipulated against you.
Well, it probably is. Again, this is Werewolf.

[Boromir88]

Last night I was all but convinced Inzil was a wolf, but now with the wolves needing 1 more successful lynch, I really don't know.

I was hoping to direct the wolves to Kit and Kath as sally's dreamed innocecents. So why Kit, and not Kath? And if Inzil is getting framed it's a masterful job by the wolves. Hoping I would jump on a vote against Inzil now? Still, Inzil looks highly suspect.

There's nothing we can find from Azura. And nothing we can really do other than let Azura get modfired, if he doesn't come to vote.

Laeko's posts look like there's a good grasp on people. But that vote and "so who's going to break the tie?" looks bad. And, at this point, not something I'm going to write off as a newbie misunderstanding.

I'd also like to hear some more opinions on Inzil. I'm mostly worried, Kit's death makes Inzil look worse and based on what I said yesterday, it could be to frame Inzil. And at the point, the wolves are going to be likely making kills to have the death lead to another innocent. Especially, if they were convinced that would be what it took for me to vote Inzil today, and then the 3 actual wolves could pile on.

And what about Kath then? I thought she's been assumed as an innocent for a while now, yet the wolves went for Kitanna instead.

[Nerwen]

Laeko's posts look like there's a good grasp on people. But that vote and "so who's going to break the tie?" looks bad. And, at this point, not something I'm going to write off as a newbie misunderstanding.
Maybe I should have a look at Laeko. I doubt there'll be much to find, though, whatever she(?) is, as she(?) has barely interacted with anyone else.

I'd also like to hear some more opinions on Inzil. I'm mostly worried, Kit's death makes Inzil look worse and based on what I said yesterday, it could be to frame Inzil. And at the point, the wolves are going to be likely making kills to have the death lead to another innocent. Especially, if they were convinced that would be what it took for me to vote Inzil today, and then the 3 actual wolves could pile on.

And what about Kath then? I thought she's been assumed as an innocent for a while now, yet the wolves went for Kitanna instead.

Mmmn, well, if Zil's a wolf, then he ended the Day with the intention of somehow parlaying Legate's innocence into a "sign" of Kit's guilt– one of those two-for-one deals that wolves love so much– and then we have to suppose he changed his mind– or his packmates changed it for him. I don't see this as too much of a conundrum, since it must have been clear by then that his plan wouldn't work. It is true, though, that if Zil's innocent, the wolves would have had the *perfect* opportunity for a frame.

Or Kath could be a wolf. Sure. Maybe Sally was just in a good mood on Day One, or something. But there's not much could be done about that now– I really doubt Kath is going to find her neck in a noose toDay.

Or it could just be that, with two semi-known innocents to choose from, the wolves picked the one they judged less likely to be protected. It may that simple.

[Inziladun]

So Kitanna was innocent after all, and choosing Legate over Nerwen or Greenie didn't work out. Is that my reward for trusting Nerwen? :rolleyes:

Both Laeko and Azura need to vote toDay. Even if we get a wolf, if Azura is modfired, the ratio toNight will be 3:2. With one more kill the wolves would win.

Anyway. I am getting most frustrated by this game. Obviously, the wolves have been very clever, with their divide-and-conquer tactics, but I think it only fair to say they've had both luck and help from the village (what with the Hunter deciding to go kamikaze, and all– still scratching my head over that one). Not only that, but the number of ordos who have allowed themselves to be manipulated into going after me... well, again, frustrating. I mean, I suppose I should be flattered everyone fears me so much, but having to be on the defensive Day after Day, and to no purpose, is just draining.

And you don't think any of the suspicions of you might be justified? Some of those who have been "manipulated" are known to be sharp, independent thinkers. Yet they've all been duped?

Mind you, I can't rule out something more complicated– for example Boro and Zil could be doing a particularly fine, elaborate and well-acted wolf-on-wolf routine.

I was thinking the same of you and Greenie after yesterDay, but then considered that her voting you so consistently seems to be pretty reckless, especially when you've garnered so much suspicion.

I was hoping to direct the wolves to Kit and Kath as sally's dreamed innocecents. So why Kit, and not Kath? And if Inzil is getting framed it's a masterful job by the wolves. Hoping I would jump on a vote against Inzil now? Still, Inzil looks highly suspect.

Why did you want to "direct the wolves? :confused:

Also, how would I be getting framed? TEW's kill reflected badly on me because of his final vote, but what else is there?

There's nothing we can find from Azura. And nothing we can really do other than let Azura get modfired, if he doesn't come to vote.

As much as I don't want to see him show up out of the blue and make an uninformed vote, that would still be preferable to a modfire. At least with a vote he has a chance to do some good.

Laeko's posts look like there's a good grasp on people. But that vote and "so who's going to break the tie?" looks bad. And, at this point, not something I'm going to write off as a newbie misunderstanding.

She generally makes good points, though I'm not completely comfortable with her myself.

I'd also like to hear some more opinions on Inzil. I'm mostly worried, Kit's death makes Inzil look worse and based on what I said yesterday, it could be to frame Inzil. And at the point, the wolves are going to be likely making kills to have the death lead to another innocent. Especially, if they were convinced that would be what it took for me to vote Inzil today, and then the 3 actual wolves could pile on.

I was suspecting Kit yesterDay, but I'm not clear on how her death looks bad for me.

And what about Kath then? I thought she's been assumed as an innocent for a while now, yet the wolves went for Kitanna instead.

I've had a tendency to overlook Kath because she's a lot more in the background than many others. That's fairly in character for her, but she needs a close look.

x/d with Nerwen: Yes, this took that long to write. Stupid work.

[Nerwen]

Laeko, Day One

#12. (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=662966&postcount=12) Very brief IC post.

#83.
My, oh my, but posts go by quickly here.
The quotes don't help. My poor head...

But, umm, look upon my cute pony icon and tell me, could you really suspect someone with a Twilight Sparkle avatar of being a cold-bloodthirsty killer?
Comment: I'll say! *shudders* ...Er... what I mean is, this post does seem quite self-conscious, considering nobody *had* suspected Laeko. However, it's really pretty typical Day One banter, and no doubt I am letting my intense loathing for all things My Little Pony get the better of me.

Didn't vote.



Laeko, Day Two
#134.
I'm Alive!
Boy do peole write a lot. But darned if I'm gonna be mod-fired that easily.

Quoting Boromir: #113 "But I can't see either you or Inzil being bothered much, by vague and slight suspicions if you were wolves."

Not to mention, it's usually very unwise to kill the person who voted for you. Then again, if there'd be any time TO do it, it would be the first kill, before "relationships" have been established and everyone's still all fuzzy about… well, everything!

And as has been pointed out, it's still early in the game, and it's just as likely that the wolves are as scared as the rest of us, wanting to make sure not to give themselves away. And hey, it does make a heck of a distraction to kill a target that they don't have much to go on.

Sally: #116, "benefiting us innocents?" You seem somewhat eager to point out your innocence, and that is making you seem suspicious. Then again, that's been pointed out before, so either you missed it, you forgot about it, or you're hoping that by repeatedly proclaiming your supposed innocence that you convince us that way. Have no idea whether that will work or not.

Cripes, I hate being a newbie, though the "protection" is nice, I suppose.
Comments: Seemingly, at some pains to play down the Night-kill ("the person who voted for you" being Elf-warrior for Zil). Goes after Sally, but on fairly reasonable grounds. Overacted "relief" at being still alive is perhaps a bit suss.


#150.
Kit, #137 I'm against protecting your lot. You're lucky you didn't really say anything yesterday.

Sounds like SOMEpony's jealous. Nah, just kidding. You drive a hard, cold logic, but you seem legit nevertheless. Maybe a little too serious, but legit.

And yes, to everypony else, I do understand that my protection ends tonight. I honestly didn't ask for it and the only reason I'm thankful for it is because it took me a while to get into the habit of checking this thread. I might actually be bummed to see Azura go, because it looks like he's gonna get modfired unless he does something last-minute.

Regarding Bom, I didn't like the first impression I got, but that was a combination of the vibe I got from his post combined with his usericon (I know, that's stupid, but his post and his picture seemed to communicate a logical predator cooly observing his prey). But first impressions over texted internet are easily misleading, so I'm going to hope he posts more and see what happens. Hopefully I'll wind up liking him as much as I like his screenname.

If Sally confessed to wanting to lynch TEW after he was proven innocent, my first conclusion is that she's being honest and confessing her mistake (though I missed the post in which she said it. Weird, I could have sworn I read everything after TEW died). Then again, upon further reading, I now understand the suspicion of lynch-apologizing.
Comment: Again with the ponies!:mad: Eager to learn the ropes (and avoid modfire). Could be anything.


#176.
Hmm, whom to logically choose...

Kitana is out, she seems to dislike me too much for her to be a werewolf.
Legate seems entirely legit, as well.
Boromir seems to be one of the brightest minds in the game, and while I find it hard to trust anyone whose logic is too intelligent for me to follow, my gut nevertheless tells me he's good to go.
I haven't myself noticed anything about Kath that makes me suspect them.
Same goes for Greenie.
Inziladun gets points for pointing out they started the Pitchwagon.
I'm keeping a close eye on Sally, though it seems as though I'm not the only one with suspicions.
And finally, I'm not going to vote for Bom because he hasn't been around to defend himself today.

Having read the discussion, that leaves Nerwen and Galadriel. What strikes me as both hilarious and confusing simultaneously is that the two seem to have engaged in quite the argument. Now, that could potentially mean that a) neither of them is is a wolf but they suspect each other, b) one of them is and is trying to make the other one look it so as to avoid attracting attention herself, or c) both of them are and one of the werewolves is getting betrayed. c) is illogical because it's far too early in the game. This is why I decided to wait further.

++Galadriel
Comment: Sucks up to Boro, the way Boro sucks up to tp. Simply sickening.:p Interprets Zil's saying he "started the Pitch-waggon" as a point in his favour, which I think is an odd way to look at it. Still poking at Sally– this and the previous comment do seem just a bit "off"– not actually making any kind of case or observation, but just reminding everyone else to suspect her (and even the first comment did that, as a matter of fact). Again I could be reading too much into this, as we are dealing with a newbie threatened with modfire for lack of participation, who would naturally be casting around for something to say. Nothing against the other comments. The vote itself is... odd. Laeko seems to be leading up to an explanation for her(?) choice of Galadriel55, but then... doesn't.



Laeko, Day Three
#268.
Boromir seems to have maintained logical arguments this entire time, and has come to earn my trust. If he's a werewolf, he deserves to kill me for how legit he's made himself look.
:rolleyes:


Nerwen is seeming a bit suspicious in terms of projecting a sort of argumentative vibe, but then again, most of what I've been noticing in terms of her posts is defending herself, and when everyone's paranoid (which we all should be), that's at least somewhat understandable.

After all, yesterday I'd been noticing Nerwen and Galadriel acting very similarly, and then I went and voted to lynch the blasted Hunter! Given none of the wolves have yet been lynched, my immediate conclusion for losing two gifteds in one night was "well, we're definitely screwed now."


#273.
++Nerwen

So, who shall break the tie?
Another odd vote.

Well, then. It's the usual "newbie, or newbie wolf"? question. As we all know, the two can look very much alike. I'd didn't expect to be able to reach any real conclusion, and I haven't– but it does at least seem within the bounds of possibility for Laeko to be a wolf-cub.

Thoughts?

EDIT:X'd with Zil.

[Nerwen]

And you don't think any of the suspicions of you might be justified?
Well, I know they're not, you see, Zil. What with me not being a wolf, and all. (Er– what did you expect me to say?)

Also, how would I be getting framed? TEW's kill reflected badly on me because of his final vote, but what else is there?
See the possible Kit-death scenario outlined in my last post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boromir88
Laeko's posts look like there's a good grasp on people. But that vote and "so who's going to break the tie?" looks bad. And, at this point, not something I'm going to write off as a newbie misunderstanding.
She generally makes good points, though I'm not completely comfortable with her myself.
You know, it's a funny thing. I had the impression that Laeko was making good points, and was on the ball, and all that, but now that I've looked at her posts in full, I see most of her comments on people are vague generalities like "seems legit". She actually says very little that's specific.

[Inziladun]

Well, I know they're not, you see, Zil. What with me not being a wolf, and all. (Er– what did you expect me to say?)

Well, you could say you're a wolf. :rolleyes:

See the possible Kit-death scenario outlined in my last post.

Ok. That's the one I crossed with and didn't have time to read it then.


You know, it's a funny thing. I had the impression that Laeko was making good points, and was on the ball, and all that, but now that I've looked at her posts in full, I see most of her comments on people are vague generalities like "seems legit". She actually says very little that's specific.

The pony references aren't as alien to me, having a young daughter and all. :)

That said, some of the things she's said, like this:

But, umm, look upon my cute pony icon and tell me, could you really suspect someone with a Twilight Sparkle avatar of being a cold-bloodthirsty killer?,

and this:I'm Alive!

do seem somewhat unnecessary, but I can't distinguish newbie-wolf from newbie-innocent there either.

[Boromir88]

You know, it's a funny thing. I had the impression that Laeko was making good points, and was on the ball, and all that, but now that I've looked at her posts in full, I see most of her comments on people are vague generalities like "seems legit". She actually says very little that's specific.

Those were some blatant attempts at flattery and...well...it works. In the same way my sucking up to tp normally does.

Boromir seems to have maintained logical arguments this entire time, and has come to earn my trust. If he's a werewolf, he deserves to kill me for how legit he's made himself look.

I know I've said similar things like this to Greenie before (and probably you too Nerwen). More flattery, but don't think the flattery looks wolvy.

[A Little Green]

Gah. I'm back here, sadly without having acquired enlightenment during my hours away. Looks like it's going to be a choice between Nerwen and Inzil for me toDay.
Well, off the top of my head, the only reason I can remember is my Day One vote for Kath. And I think that's pretty thin, too, quite frankly.It would be. More than the fact that you voted Kath, though, I'm unnerved by how you first urged the Pitchwaggon on and then washed your hands as soon as it actually began to happen. Maybe I've been fixated on that, but nothing has made me change my mind, either. These latter Days, then, I'm not sure what to make of the fact that each Day you seem to have someone you get into a heated argument with (whether it was you who started it or the other I don't know), and those tend to end up dead. It confuses me more than causes suspicion, though.

Inzil, then, has been even more of a Mr. Agreeable than he usually is. Very smooth, you hardly remember he's there even though he posts relatively much, and looking at his votes he's always going for the easy lynch. On the other hand, I wonder if an evil Inzil would appear quite this blatantly like the classic uncontroversial wolf.

[Boromir88]

It would be. More than the fact that you voted Kath, though, I'm unnerved by how you first urged the Pitchwaggon on and then washed your hands as soon as it actually began to happen. Maybe I've been fixated on that, but nothing has made me change my mind, either. These latter Days, then, I'm not sure what to make of the fact that each Day you seem to have someone you get into a heated argument with (whether it was you who started it or the other I don't know), and those tend to end up dead. It confuses me more than causes suspicion, though.


I meant to make a note of this but forgot. But you reminded me.

Oh, wait going back to the half-analysis of Nerwen yesterday, I did. With the Pitch stuff, I think Nerwen came more of as a standard Lommy flip-flop and not trying to step away from it. There is a difference between what I would call a rambling Lommy flip-flop and trying to wash your hands clean of it.

I mean, to me. Nerwen saying:

On the other hand, his cases on both of them were sound enough, by Day One standards– and someone had to get the ball rolling

Pointing out that suspicions had to start from someone and Pitch did in fact get them started. And..

I was pointing out his perhaps opportunistic choice of targets– so yes, I suppose that's "casting suspicion". Is that a problem?

Here saying Pitch did target 2 people (Bom and G55) who normally do look suspect early, and it's something that Pitch would know.

I think it looks quite different than Inzil who clearly did try to back away the next day from vote. Then at the same time also make sure to point out he started the Pitch voting.

[A Little Green]

I am currently faced with several problems.

1) My two main suspects don't, at least at first glance (which is all I have time for), really look like fellows. Inzil's Day 3 vote could be seen as intended to save Nerwen, but on Day 2 he actually says he'd be ready to vote for Gal based on what Nerwen said, and I'm unconvinced that a Zilwolf, however crafty, would say that so openly. Their toDay's interactions don't look blatantly wolf-on-wolvish either, but that isn't really to say anything about whether they are or not.

2) If one of them is not a wolf, then, I have no idea who else it might be (though, as stated before, if Nerwen is a wolf I'd call it quite possible that Boro is, too).

3) Either way, there is still the third wolf. If it's Azura and s/he isn't modfired, I'm going to be more than a little frustrated. If Kath, I'm going to scream - though Boro's point about why she isn't dead yet was a good one. Who does that leave? Boro I'm very unsure about but if I had to say something more definite I'd say he was leaning innocent. Nerwen's analysis of Laeko was interesting, made me have second thoughts about a player I hadn't really analysed much - but at the same time, Laeko would be a very easy target for the wolves toDay.

Wait. Actually I just came up with an optimistic thought. I have a 50% chance of getting it right toDay! :rolleyes:


EDIT: x-ed with Boro

[A Little Green]

I think it looks quite different than Inzil who clearly did try to back away the next day from vote. Then at the same time also make sure to point out he started the Pitch voting.For myself, I read Inzil's reminder that he started the Pitchwaggon as an only half-serious remark of no real importance. Inzil's Day 2 behaviour is interesting, though, both his apology for his Pitch vote (I'm with Kath on this one, I find that suspicious) and his reasons for voting Gal (what Nerwen said, and involvement in the waggon he himself was just as much a part of).

In fact, I'm flip-flopping like my renowned sister right now, but I'd be willing to bet that either Inzil is a wolf and Boro and Nerwen are innocents I should trust after all, or else Nerwen and Boro are the wolves and Inzil the one I should trust.

The problem here is that I need to go to sleep soon and vote before I do that - and if I vote for another innocent, we've lost the game. (Unless Azura is a wolf and does not appear.) So yeah, no pressure or anything.

[Inziladun]

I think it looks quite different than Inzil who clearly did try to back away the next day from vote. Then at the same time also make sure to point out he started the Pitch voting.

Come on, Boro! How did I "back away"while still taking responsibility and admitting my fault? You can't have it both ways.

3) Either way, there is still the third wolf. If it's Azura and s/he isn't modfired, I'm going to be more than a little frustrated. If Kath, I'm going to scream - though Boro's point about why she isn't dead yet was a good one. Who does that leave? Boro I'm very unsure about but if I had to say something more definite I'd say he was leaning innocent. Nerwen's analysis of Laeko was interesting, made me have second thoughts about a player I hadn't really analysed much - but at the same time, Laeko would be a very easy target for the wolves toDay.

I seriously doubt Azura is a wolf. I can't believe that such lack of activity would be supported by his mates. And to me, that surely would be a hollow victory.

Wait. Actually I just came up with an optimistic thought. I have a 50% chance of getting it right toDay! :rolleyes:

You know the stakes. Choose well.

[A Little Green]

I seriously doubt Azura is a wolf. I can't believe that such lack of activity would be supported by his mates. And to me, that surely would be a hollow victory.Sadly enough, I agree.
You know the stakes. Choose well.That doesn't exactly help, you know! :D

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hello again! I am back! Happy, are you? :)

No, not really, though. I am just posting for Greenie now: only conveying the message that her internet is not working right now, so she cannot post, but she definitely will post at some point, at least an hour before DL.

That's it. Bye!

*crawls back into the mass grave*

[Kath]

I'm going to have to vote even earlier than usual toDay as I have to be in school earlier tomorrow morning.

So, as per usual, will read through the posts from toDay and see what has been going on, look at the votes from yesterDay and decide!

Will say I won't vote Azura for the same reasoning as others have given. Seriously doubt s/he is a wolf with so little participation.

[Kath]

Votes:
Greenie --> Nerwen (Can't say I'm totally getting this vote still. So, if the wolves had Seer options, they (with one of them being Nerwen) then looked only at the Seer options who would potentially dream of Nerwen, in order to avoid Nerwen being dreamed of and outed. Right. Technically this makes sense. I still think it is pretty convoluted reasoning to base a vote on, however. Also, Greenie states that this reasoning is in addition to previous suspicion of Nerwen, but there is no other suspicion bar that gained from this train of thought during the Day.)

Kath --> Greenie (Based on what I've just written above.)

Legate --> Nerwen (For being very jumpy and continuing to posit theories that were markedly different from his own which he considered ill-reasoned. Now, this debate raged yesterDay. sally did not leave extremely obvious clues. Therefore her posts are open to interpretation. Nerwen's 'jumpiness' could very easily be a result of the very forceful way that Legate argued against her yesterDay. Once I get on to reading toDays posts I think it will become clear whether that was the case or whether she is actually oddly jumpy.)

Kitanna --> Legate (For pushing buttons. Well, I can definitely see her reasoning. He was. In hindsight with the knowledge that he is innocent the reactions of those he 'pushed' needs to be addressed. The two people that most responded to that 'pushing' were Nerwen and Boro, and they did come under some heavy suspicion yesterDay. If either or both of them turn out to be wolves then, despite the unfortunate side effect of his death (!), Legate's 'pushing' may well prove useful.)

Nerwen --> Legate (Pretty much to save her own skin. Difficulty is, whatever her role she'd pretty much have done the same thing. If Gifted she knows she's more important to the village even if he's innocent. If ordo she knows nothing and assumes he's wolvish and a better lynch than her. If wolvish clearly she's going to want him lynched as she knows he's innocent.)

Inzil --> Legate (Was choosing between Nerwen and Legate to ensure his vote counted for something. This, at least, I like. It's not a throwaway or an 'easy' vote and it's a vote that's very hard to hide behind as a wolf. His reasoning for suspicion of Legate was stronger than anything he had on Nerwen and he did vote accordingly.)

Laeko --> Nerwen (Were Laeko not a newbie, I'd all but be proclaiming her wolvishness from the rooftops. Deliberately causing a tie, with absolutely no reasoning in her post? Can we say suspicious? I mean if she is a wolf then I take my hat off at the sheer audacity of that vote. It's difficult. I know newbies have sailed through under what turned out to be unwise automatic protection, but the rest of Laeko's posts hadn't raised any alarm bells for me.)

Boro --> Legate (Breaks the tie. Question: Did he have to? If he hadn't voted what would have happened with the lynch? Because I think that's rather important for deciding whether what he did makes him look good/bag/ugly.)

So, from the votes Greenie and Laeko seem most suspicious. Boro might be in there too but I'd like to know the answer to that question first.

Now on to toDay.

[Kath]

ToDay:

Nerwen - suggested two potential wolf pairings if their design is to set her up. Boro and Kit which she then largely discounted given Kit's innocence and Greenie and Zil. Given that is a rather narcissistic (though that doesn't necessarily mean incorrect!) theory I would like to see some evidence for these ideas. Comes to about the same conclusion as me about Laeko. Newbie or newbie wolf. That is the question.

Greenie - explains what she meant about sally. I understand the explanation now, but as I said, still think it's pretty convoluted and rather relies on a lot of factors coming together. Kind of disagree with her comment to Nerwen. If Nerwen is innocent then the amount of suspicion she found herself under yesterday, while likely as not partly due to her own posts, may well have been furthered by wolvish ploys. She can't know, but she can suspect and theorise, which is what she was doing. Greenie is arguing the speculative nature of the discussion is unhelpful, but it can produce ideas. However, I do agree that Nerwen's comment was overly decisive. It was stated as though it was fact rather than suggestion. Then analysed the votes and stated she suspected Inzil and Nerwen as a result. Inzil for voting for the easy target and Nerwen for previous reasons. Greenie then says Inzil and Nerwen don't look like fellows and tries to come up with other wolves. She says if Nerwen is a wolf then Boro may be one. However, in the next sentence she says she is leaning innocent on Boro. Again, can't have it both ways!

Boro - points out that of the two people he suggested were innocent the wolves went for Kit over me. Options would be because I am a wolf and therefore could not be killed; Inzil is a wolf and hoped to double bluff; Inzil is innocent and the wolves hoped to frame him toDay. I don't know Inzil's playing style very well. Is a fairly elaborate double bluff something he might try to do? Also mentions that Laeko has been very non-commital. This is true. I am struggling to remain ambivalent about her, but again I just keep coming back to her newbie status. Argues against Greenie's ideas on Nerwen 'washing her hands' of a Pitch-wagon.

Inzil - potentially interesting catch on Boro's wording about 'directing the wolves'. That said, Boro could hardly direct the wolves toward ... well ... wolves. Still it's odd wording. I don't like how Inzil doesn't actually make a clear point. It's all 'well I thought that but then' or 'could be this but that'. Yes, it's hard to be decisive, but constantly doing that makes it look like there's something to hide.

Well, that's it. Posting this, seeing if I've cross-posted, and then voting.

[Kath]

Aww no one else is here. :(

Alright then. Let's see.

I cannot bring myself to vote for Laeko. It may be foolish but ... well, if she was a wolf I think she'd have made more mistakes basically. Right now we can't tell if she's newbie or newbie wolf. I think if it's not obvious then it's more likely that she's newbie.

I am leaning innocent with Nerwen. I think her posts come across as overly dramatic and factual but that the ideas and arguments are sound. I wouldn't say players are being manipulated in such derogatory terms, but it's entirely possible that her already somewhat suspicious playing style is being enhanced by the wolves.

I'm not going to vote Boro. If we would have had a double lynch yesterDay if he'd not broken the tie I think it makes his vote look more innocent. If Shasta was simply going to flip a coin and choose then I think it makes him look less innocent. As I'm not going to get an answer to that I'm going to hope Shasta replies later and that the information can be used.

My choice then is between Greenie and Inzil (Boro would be my third wolf if there was no danger of a double lynch yesterDay).

++GREENIE

I still feel her vote against Nerwen yesterDay was based on some very convoluted reasoning, and as I am leaning innocent on Nerwen I obviously disagree with Greenie's continued suspicion of her.

And to bed.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nerwen
Well, off the top of my head, the only reason I can remember is my Day One vote for Kath. And I think that's pretty thin, too, quite frankly.
It would be. More than the fact that you voted Kath, though, I'm unnerved by how you first urged the Pitchwaggon on and then washed your hands as soon as it actually began to happen. Maybe I've been fixated on that, but nothing has made me change my mind, either. These latter Days, then, I'm not sure what to make of the fact that each Day you seem to have someone you get into a heated argument with (whether it was you who started it or the other I don't know), and those tend to end up dead. It confuses me more than causes suspicion, though.
And this kind of thing is precisely why I'm frustrated, and talking about "manipulation". In another game I'd be ready to vote Greenie for the contradiction between this post and her talk of "other reasons" she had stated "a hundred times already", not to mention falling back on the non-argument "nothing has made me change my mind"– which is very often the sign of a lazy wolf.

Problem: Galadriel55 did pretty much this exact same thing on Day Two, not to mention proclaiming herself a wolf more than once– and turned out innocent! This game is really making me doubt my own reasoning at every turn.

And just to clarify: no, it's not that I think no one has the right to suspect me, it's just that the way these suspicions have played out, the way certain innocents have behaved has been odd enough to make me think there's some funny business going on. (As, you know, there's meant to be.) I don't mean it's on one side either– I feel I've been manipulated into voting Gal and Legate. Again, I think the wolves, whoever they are, have been very clever in making use of everyone's mutual paranoia. Unless, of course, the wolves are Kath, Laeko and Azura, in which case they've been very clever at lying low and letting the village tear itself to pieces of its own volition. As I said in my first post, this, too, is possible.

[Inziladun]

Nerwen - suggested two potential wolf pairings if their design is to set her up. Boro and Kit which she then largely discounted given Kit's innocence and Greenie and Zil. Given that is a rather narcissistic (though that doesn't necessarily mean incorrect!) theory I would like to see some evidence for these ideas. Comes to about the same conclusion as me about Laeko. Newbie or newbie wolf. That is the question.

Nerwen to me is coming across as rather paranoid, and has the whole game. Next she'll be accusing us of stealing the strawberries (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUp3vhMSfZE).

Then again, hyper-defensiveness is also seen in Boro, what with the semantics arguments with Greenie and Legate.

Greenie is arguing the speculative nature of the discussion is unhelpful, but it can produce ideas. However, I do agree that Nerwen's comment was overly decisive. It was stated as though it was fact rather than suggestion. Then analysed the votes and stated she suspected Inzil and Nerwen as a result. Inzil for voting for the easy target and Nerwen for previous reasons. Greenie then says Inzil and Nerwen don't look like fellows and tries to come up with other wolves. She says if Nerwen is a wolf then Boro may be one. However, in the next sentence she says she is leaning innocent on Boro. Again, can't have it both ways!

My only real issue with Greenie was what I said here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=663334&postcount=254), about Greenie's suggestion that Sally was killed because Nerwen was nervous, when it was Greenie who'd been actively voting for Nerwen.

Boro has at times been sharp and spot on, but other times it seems he's been reaching for reasons to suspect me, such as the deal about "backing away" from the fact that I voted for Pitch.

As for Kath, I've found she makes pretty good sense, though I've had an issue or two with her votes, like the Sally one, and the Day 2 vote for me, which honestly looked like a throwaway, even it's me saying so.

My choice then is between Greenie and Inzil (Boro would be my third wolf if there was no danger of a double lynch yesterDay).

++GREENIE
I still feel her vote against Nerwen yesterDay was based on some very convoluted reasoning, and as I am leaning innocent on Nerwen I obviously disagree with Greenie's continued suspicion of her.

Interesting. Just like yesterDay....

x/d with Nerwen

[Boromir88]

Boro has at times been sharp and spot on, but other times it seems he's been reaching for reasons to suspect me, such as the deal about "backing away" from the fact that I voted for Pitch.

Reaching? "Sorry, Pitch" (looks like the apology) and then "as I said yesterday, I had doubts about your wolvishness" (looks like a clear back track).

I might be reaching on your comments on the end of Day 2, where you pointed out to Nerwen that you were the one who started the Pitch-wagon. But, you backing away from the vote, is not a reach. Whether it was unintentional or you did it to make us think you didn't already know Pitch was innocent, you still backed off it.

As for Kath, I've found she makes pretty good sense, though I've had an issue or two with her votes, like the Sally one, and the Day 2 vote for me, which honestly looked like a throwaway, even it's ,e saying so.


Her sally vote was strange at the time, but not so much anymore now that sally didn't think it a big deal. Her vote for you on Day 2, however was well reasoned and she voted before the G55 and Nerwen really got into it.

You can't really call it a throw away when Kit had voted early for Bom and Greenie voted for Nerwen based on Nerwen's reactions to the Pitch-wagon. And when Kath voted at a time well before the G55-Nerwen business became a mess.

[Inziladun]

Less than three hours til DL.

No Laeko or Azura yet, I see.

We already have one vote.

Kath-->Greenie (1)

And the only one I'm fairly certain is not a wolf is Azura.

Lovely.

x/d with Boro

[Nerwen]

Here's a little deduction for you all.

If that first vote of the Day, Kath's on Greenie, was innocent-on-innocent, then it follows that at least one of the three who have posted since (Zil, me, Boro) must be a wolf. (I happen to know I'm not, but I'm trying to look at this from an objective standpoint.) With three wolves to four innocents, the wolves could jump on an innocent-on-innocent vote toDay. Therefore, either the wolves are playing it particularly safe, for some reason– perhaps Azura's one after all, and thus they can't count on the full pack being around– or that was *not* an innocent-on-innocent vote.

I don't know if this really helps, but it may.

[Inziladun]

If that first vote of the Day, Kath's on Greenie, was innocent-on-innocent, then it follows that at least one of the three who have posted since (Zil, me, Boro) must be a wolf. (I happen to know I'm not, but I'm trying to look at this from an objective standpoint.)

Well, I'm happy to know you know it. :rolleyes:

With three wolves to four innocents, the wolves could jump on an innocent-on-innocent vote toDay. Therefore, either the wolves are playing it particularly safe, for some reason– perhaps Azura's one after all, and thus they can't count on the full pack being around– or that was *not* an innocent-on-innocent vote.

I keep waiting for Laeko and Azura to make an appearance. I still say that if Azura's a wolf, both he and his packmates ought to be ashamed.

[Boromir88]

I don't know how much thinking and analyzing I've got left in me. We should probably pool our preferences, because even if wolves are waiting around for an innocent-on-innocent, it woudn't do much good for us to split our votes either. We decide on one choice, and go with it. The votes may not tell us much tomorrow, but at this point, what are our choices?

I don't want to vote for Azura or Kath today. Right now, I would want to vote...

1. Inzil
2. Laeko
3. Greenie
4. Nerwen

Inzil? Laeko? Convince me otherwise. Now would be a good time.

Edit: crossed with Inzil.

[Inziladun]

Well, what's to say, Boro? "I'm not a wolf"? "Don't lynch me"?

I've tried to answer the things you and others have brought up. I've tried to be open about what I did, and why. Now you just have to make a choice. If you're on the good side, you're a sharp enough player to do the right thing. If you're evil, nothing I say is going to convince you anyway.

[Azura]

++Nerwen


I vote Nerwen because she is very jump about people suspecting her and the tip to make my vote......


(Sry for lurking alot just rly fraking busy..and also I still has my noob card)

[A Little Green]

Phew. I'm back! (Werewolf at 7 AM is - interesting.)
With three wolves to four innocents, the wolves could jump on an innocent-on-innocent vote toDay. Therefore, either the wolves are playing it particularly safe, for some reason– perhaps Azura's one after all, and thus they can't count on the full pack being around– or that was *not* an innocent-on-innocent vote.I was thinking along the same lines, actually. I must now hope Kath is a wolf because, let's face it, we've already lost if she isn't.

I'd like to try Inzil toDay. Nerwen and Laeko, too. The rest - not so much. Kath - well, either she's a wolf or the game is lost, so basically lynching her would be a safe choice; but as I know none of you can really trust me in this, and there's still the possibility that one of the wolves doesn't show up, in which case the game isn't automatically lost after all, in which case I could think of better candidates than Kath, so be assured I won't vote for her.

Err.. that's one awful sentence, isn't it? Sorry, it's early morning after too little sleep, and I'm thinking as I write.


EDIT: x-ed with Inzil and Azura

[A Little Green]

++Nerwen


I vote Nerwen because she is very jump about people suspecting her and the tip to make my vote......Oh dear. Just when I was ready to say I back off from Nerwen and go for Inzil.

[A Little Green]

Also - 20 minutes to DL, right? Where is everybody?

[Nerwen]

(Sry for lurking alot just rly fraking busy..and also I still has my noob card)
Not any more, sorry. They come with an expiration date, you know.

Phew. I'm back! (Werewolf at 7 AM is - interesting.)
I was thinking along the same lines, actually. I must now hope Kath is a wolf because, let's face it, we've already lost if she isn't.
Or, from my point of view, we could hope you're a wolf, Greenie.

[Inziladun]

Well! What to do?

Kath-->Greenie (1)
Azura-->Nerwen (1)

[Nerwen]

Anyway– I regret having to do this, but unless Azura is one most deeply-submerged little subs ever, that *was* an innocent on innocent vote.

So– nobody follow that vote! I am the Ranger!

EDIT:X'd with Zil.

[Boromir88]

Well now that Azura's voted. Either there is a wolf amongst Kath or Greenie. Or a wolf amongst Azura and Nerwen.

Otherwise, this game would be over, or the wolves are tormenting us? Or some of you are waiting around for your Laeko packmate just to be sure?

Well horror movies cause me to go insane...and if I were in a horror movie with werewolves, I don't even want to know how far my sanity would fall.

[A Little Green]

Or, from my point of view, we could hope you're a wolf, Greenie.I know. There's really nothing to say to that.

That aside, is there any chance of getting a third candidate lynched? I mean, other than by wolves?
(I'd hazard a guess at no.)

Another question: where are the wolves, why aren't they out and gloating yet?


EDIT: x-ed with Inzil, Nerwen, and Boro

[Inziladun]

Anyway– I regret having to do this, but unless Azura is one most deeply-submerged little subs ever, that *was* an innocent on innocent vote.

So– nobody follow that vote! I am the Ranger!

Oh, for.....:rolleyes:

x/d with Boro and Greenie

[A Little Green]

So– nobody follow that vote! I am the Ranger!I'd be inclined to believe that. I also know I'm not wolf, and know you can't know that. We're screwed, aren't we?

[Inziladun]

That aside, is there any chance of getting a third candidate lynched? I mean, other than by wolves?
(I'd hazard a guess at no.)

It doesn't look likely at this point.

Another question: where are the wolves, why aren't they out and gloating yet?

Maybe Laeko is indeed one, and isn't here?

x/d with Greenie

[A Little Green]

Won't choose between the ranger and myself.

++Inzil

[Boromir88]

Is this torment to make up for all the crazy improbabilities that happened Day 1?

Inzil...cause to doubt Nerwen's claim?

[Laeko_Randalis]

Yeah, playing roleplaying games 'til eleven can lead to me not being around, sorry everyone.

I'll be honest, to me Zil and Nerwen look the guiltiest, Zil for, as Boromir pointed out, being extremely unconfrontational and Nerwen for being so defensive.

I guess creating a tie had much more adverse implications than I'd expected, though I do admit my "who will break" comment was pretty stupid. I confess, my crime lies in not wanting to be the newbie who falsely decided someone's fate, particularly given that Galadriel had been putting on a similar defensive air as Nerwen had, and turned out to be one of our gifteds of all things.

And because of that, my vote tonight is

++Zil

[A Little Green]

Oh no oh no oh no. I'm pretty certain everyone is a wolf. :rolleyes:

[Nerwen]

I'll *scream* if it turns out two-thirds of the packs were the bloody n00bs!

[Boromir88]

Ok...let' hope.

++Inziladun

[Inziladun]

Is this torment to make up for all the crazy improbabilities that happened Day 1?

Inzil...cause to doubt Nerwen's claim?

Nah. She's probably telling the truth.

++Greenie

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Time.

---------

With three votes, Inzil the Wolf is lynched. Congratulations, village. You live to see another day.

Night begins.

Nerwen
Greenie
Boro
Kath
Laeko_Rundalis
Azura

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Sorry - the site was down for whatever reason.

The wolves attacked, but the person they attacked was protected by the Ranger.

It is now Day (insert number here).

[Nerwen]

Ha!:smokin:

It's Day 5, by the way.

[A Little Green]

Can the ranger self-protect?

[Nerwen]

Can the ranger self-protect?

*shakes head*
Not tellin'.

[Nerwen]

Shasta didn't state publicly how any of the gifted-roles worked earlier, so I don't expect he will now.

[Nerwen]

Still no-one around?

I'm bored.

So why did you want to know, anyway, Greenie? Isn't it best to keep the evil side guessing? (Best for the village, at any rate.)

[Boromir88]

So why did you want to know, anyway, Greenie? Isn't it best to keep the evil side guessing? (Best for the village, at any rate.)

But you're not keeping the wolves guessing. They either attacked you or someone else, they know it and you know it. Any extra information you have to give us will only help us now. Today. The only ones you're keeping guessing are the villagers, because the wolves know who they attacked, and you know who you stopped from being killed.

[A Little Green]

But you're not keeping the wolves guessing. They either attacked you or someone else, they know it and you know it. Any extra information you have to give us will only help us now. Today. The only ones you're keeping guessing are the villagers, because the wolves know who they attacked, and you know who you stopped from being killed.That's more or less what I was thinking. The wolves already know whether they attacked you or somebody else.

I'm off to take another look at yesterDay's mess of a voting, I think.

[A Little Green]

Something like this..

Kath - Greenie
Azura - Nerwen
Greenie - Inzil
Laeko - Inzil
Boro - Inzil
Inzil - Greenie

Quite frankly, if Boro and/or Laeko are wolves, they are sporty to a fault. Why kill a fellow instead of winning a game? But if neither of the two is a wolf, that would mean Kath and Azura are. I can say nothing at all about Azura, really, not based on two posts. Kath has looked pretty innocent to me, though I begun to have doubts yesterDay. Should probably have a look at her relationship with Inzil, not sure if I have the time right now but at least I can start.

[Boromir88]

Quite frankly, if Boro and/or Laeko are wolves, they are sporty to a fault. Why kill a fellow instead of winning a game? But if neither of the two is a wolf, that would mean Kath and Azura are. I can say nothing at all about Azura, really, not based on two posts. Kath has looked pretty innocent to me, though I begun to have doubts yesterDay. Should probably have a look at her relationship with Inzil, not sure if I have the time right now but at least I can start.

The way it boils down for me is 2 wolves amongst:

Greenie
Kath
Laeko
Azura

Based on the voting yesterday, it would appear a wolf either between Greenie and Kath. And a wolf either between Laeko and Azura. Sorry, Greenie, not going to take your word that you're innocent. I need to work out all the possible combinations first, but based on how voting was a bit hectic towards the end. It wouldn't surprise me if 2 wolves were up for lynch yesterday (Greenie and Inzil).

Although, if the innocents split their votes on 2 wolves, then I would think the pack would have enough amongst themselves to vote an innocent. Unless if Greenie and Inzil's 3rd mate was Azura, who votes Nerwen.

I feel like I'm not making any sense right now. But based on the numbers, there seems no way Kath's vote for Greenie could be innocent on innocent. And that Azura's vote for Nerwen also could not be innocent on innocent.

[Boromir88]

I'm going to try to work out all the scenarios of the voting yesterday in my head, so if the running train of thought gets all jumbled up....sorry.

(I) = innocent. (W) = wolf. (R) = Ranger.

Scenario 1.

Kath (I) ---> Greenie (I)

Now if this was the case, then the 3 remaining wolves could have piled on to vote Greenie and win. In this scenario then, Inzil, Laeko, and Azura would be the pack. And maybe the reason Inzil didn't jump on to Kath's vote, because he didn't know if either Azura or Laeko would come in to vote. Then...

Azura (W) ---> Nerwen (R)

This could have been a newbie wolf mistake, instead of voting for the already voted innocent. But it's making scenario 1 look highly unlikely. Then Nerwen reveals to be the Ranger.

Greenie (I) ---> Inzil (W). Based on she know's she's innocent and she's not going to vote the Ranger so she went with her other possibility.

Laeko (W) ---> Inzil (W).

And this is really what makes Scenario 1 not make any sense. Because if Laeko would have added on to vote Greenie, Inziladun did too. And it would make my vote for Inziladun irrelevant. But Laeko voted for Inziladun, so a wolf on wolf vote doesn't make any sense. Scenario 1 can't make sense, and so Kath voting for Greenie was not an innocent-on-innocent.

[Boromir88]

Scenario 2.

Kath (I) ---> Greenie (W)

Ok. So a wolf already has a vote and so now the pack has to try to get an innocent on innocent.

The next vote is Azura's for Nerwen. Nerwen then reveals to be the Ranger. If Azura's innocent, it would make the pack. Inziladun, Greenie and Laeko. And whether Nerwen revealed or not, there would have been enough votes to lynch her. So this pack formation can't make sense because Greenie winds up voting for Inziladun.

If Azura's a wolf, however, then the Inziladun, Greenie, Azura pack makes more sense then the previous. Perhaps in night planning it was decided Nerwen would be the primary innocent target, and it backfired that she turned out to be the ranger?

Azura (W) ---> Nerwen (R)

Nerwen reveals to be the ranger. Wolf-Greenie already having a vote. Knows she can't vote for Nerwen, because Nerwen, Laeko, and I will make votes to save the ranger thus getting Wolf-Greenie lynched.

Although if Greenie were a wolf here. She's not going to vote for herself, she can't vote for Nerwen without being exposed as sealing her own lynch. So in order to save cover, and sort of take the motto of "let's fight another day," she makes a wolf-on-wolf vote for Inzil. The confusing part here though, is if Greenie, Azura and Inzil were the pack, why would Greenie vote Inzil knowing I have been suspicious of him, and Laeko too? Why not vote the other mate, Azura? Or give a vote to another innocent and hope?

If Greenie's a wolf here, it's a confusing vote choice. But the Inzil, Greenie, Azura pack, in this scenario is more plausible than Scenario 1 (Inzil, Laeko, Azura).

Scenario 3.

Kath (W) ---> Greenie (I)

My brain hurts and I need foods. I can't unravel how likely the a Inzil, Kath, and Azura/Laeko pack in this group looks compared to the scenario 2 pack (Inzil, Greenie, Azura) right now. I just wanted to mention it, before I have to leave, that I'll be heading to this scenario next.

And for the sake of it, Scenario 4 would be...

Kath (W) ---> Greenie (W).

which would make absolutely no sense given the circumstances of the day, so that one is easy enough to figure out.

[A Little Green]

KATH
(With emphasis on her relationship with Inzil, and a few other points that stood out to me. Not a complete analysis of all her posts.)

On Day 1, Kath makes a list. (She also votes Sally in the same post.)
Inzil - a loudmouth with some good discussion points! Like it.
In the early parts of Day 2, Kath further explains her Sally vote, which is fair enough considering how much suspicion that vote roused. She then moves on to speculate EW's death:
So I'm thinking really not a trailless kill unless Galadriel or Boro are wolves. Could be an attempt at a Legate set up - if so I'd think we have very bold or very new wolves given Legate voted for him making the connection obvious.

The following passage is potentially interesting in relation to my theory of Kath being a wolf with Azura (or Laeko, for that matter):
What I'm tempted to do is to vote for a potential modfire candidate. That way if Shasta does say modfire is happening then you guys can figure out what to do and my vote might come in useful.

On the other hand, clearly I don't actually suspect either of the potential modfire candidates as there is nothing to suspect them for!
Would a wolf with a fellow under threat of modfire say this? It wouldn't make much of a difference, I suppose, might even serve to make her look good. Then again, would a wolf with an inactive fellow be unaware of the modfire rules? (But then, if Shasta never said anything about them it might be that the wolves really were unaware of the modfire rules..) I'm just not sure. Kath abandons this plan soon enough, though.

From her list of people:
Inzil - really don't like it when people apologise for their votes posthumously (ach, that's not the right words but you know what I mean.) Seems to scream guilt. Could be a particular playing style but even if so I don't like it. Some suspicion of Bom for his vote placement. Agrees with Kitanna about not voting modfires.
Laeko - hey! Our newbie reappeared! This may change our entire modfire thoughts anyway! I like this so far - some good thoughts and reasoned suspicion of sally.

Aaaand vote post:
Possibilities:
Galadriel or Inzil for apologising for voting Pitch. I just find that very suspicious. It's like going 'Oh silly me! Don't blame me now, will you?'

sally for being hypocritical about the modfire situation. You do the same thing as someone else they can't be bad and you be good.

Boro for imagining a Pitch bandwagon and making a bigger deal out of it than there needs to be.

Quick re-read of Galadriel and Inzil's posts. On a re-read, Galadriel didn't actually apologise, she just stated frustration. Inzil on the other hand definitely apologised and tried to backtrack on his suspicion.

++INZILWolf-on-wolf? In itself, it's hard to say this or that. This one becomes more interesting on moving to Day 3. Her comment on Inzil reads as follows:
Inzil - I can see again what Inzil is saying about sally not trying to save Pitch if she had dreamt of him. The timing is interesting though. After 4 votes for Pitch, a sudden blast of defence from sally wouldn't exactly have been a good way of trying to stay hidden! Some interesting points about Kitanna. She is often voting against her previous posts. Or well, not so much against as she is showing suspicion of the people she is voting for, but that those she votes for don't appear to be her top suspects prior to the vote.She says nothing about whether she finds him suspicious or not, which I find rather curious considering that she voted him the Day before. Inzil has also completely vanished from her list of possible lynchees:
Based on that those I would consider voting would be:

Greenie - For such a flip floppy Nerwen vote. Either sally was an obvious Seer who the wolves were afraid would dream of NerwenWolf, or sally was not an obvious Seer. I just don't think you can have it both ways.

Legate - For that very aggressive tone early on. He has pulled it back but it has been commented on toDay that since doing so he has then tried to portray himself a little as a confused innocent. He may very well be that of course, it's just the slide into that after that very confident start that seems odd.

Boro - For changing from fairly calm, considered Boro to angry!frustrated!argumentative! Boro all in one go. Could be the result of the loss of two Gifteds and therefore his attempt to play more calmly went out the window. Or he's a wolf who has stopped being so bothered about keeping a calm cover after the loss of two Gifteds.

Because I feel my reasoning for Greenie is less so-so than for the others:

++GREENIE

Day 4, then.
Will say I won't vote Azura for the same reasoning as others have given. Seriously doubt s/he is a wolf with so little participation.
So, from the votes Greenie and Laeko seem most suspicious. Boro might be in there too but I'd like to know the answer to that question first.
Inzil - potentially interesting catch on Boro's wording about 'directing the wolves'. That said, Boro could hardly direct the wolves toward ... well ... wolves. Still it's odd wording. I don't like how Inzil doesn't actually make a clear point. It's all 'well I thought that but then' or 'could be this but that'. Yes, it's hard to be decisive, but constantly doing that makes it look like there's something to hide.Thinks Inzil made a good catch (well, in all fairness, he did), but in the same breath says she doesn't like his cautious style of phrasing it. This looks, to me, most like wolf-on-wolf interaction between Kath and Inzil. In pointing out he made a good point, she strengthens an impression of Zil as a sharp and useful player, while in saying she doesn't like his style she avoids looking too much like his buddy.

Vote post reads as follows:
I cannot bring myself to vote for Laeko. It may be foolish but ... well, if she was a wolf I think she'd have made more mistakes basically. Right now we can't tell if she's newbie or newbie wolf. I think if it's not obvious then it's more likely that she's newbie.

I am leaning innocent with Nerwen. I think her posts come across as overly dramatic and factual but that the ideas and arguments are sound. I wouldn't say players are being manipulated in such derogatory terms, but it's entirely possible that her already somewhat suspicious playing style is being enhanced by the wolves.

I'm not going to vote Boro. If we would have had a double lynch yesterDay if he'd not broken the tie I think it makes his vote look more innocent. If Shasta was simply going to flip a coin and choose then I think it makes him look less innocent. As I'm not going to get an answer to that I'm going to hope Shasta replies later and that the information can be used.

My choice then is between Greenie and Inzil (Boro would be my third wolf if there was no danger of a double lynch yesterDay).

++GREENIE

I still feel her vote against Nerwen yesterDay was based on some very convoluted reasoning, and as I am leaning innocent on Nerwen I obviously disagree with Greenie's continued suspicion of her.
Would be convenient for a wolf to place a fellow as another lynch choice but vote for someone else. Makes her look good on the offchance the said fellow gets lynched at some point, but at the same time does not endanger him on a crucial Day. Her previous posts don't bring forth Inzil as a lynch candidate, she only brings up the idea in the same post where she already votes another player.

Conclusion about Kath? If she's a wolf, she's playing a careful game, there's nothing I could point at and call ”wolf!” She's been suspecting Inzil somewhat: voting him on Day 2, not really mentioning him Day 3, and bringing him up as a lynch candidate on Day 4. Not too much for wolf-on-wolf, in my mind.

Just based on yesterDay's votes, I'd be leaning on thinking Kath a wolf.

[A Little Green]

To sum up -

If Boro is a wolf, he's flipping mad.
If Nerwen is a wolf, the real ranger is mad.
If both Laeko and Azura are wolves, Shasta is mad.

Regardless of the fact that werewolf often is a little mad, any of those scenarios look a bit too much so. Therefore -

++Kath

Good night!

[Kath]

Very sorry. Stupidly busy day. No internet. Posting this at parents house before running back to my own to sleep. Have checked mod post but haven't read the thread. Going with what I did yesterDay as a result as feel no vote is less use than at least a previously reasoned vote so thoughts/suspicions etc currently still level with my last post yesterDay.

++GREENIE

[Nerwen]

But you're not keeping the wolves guessing. They either attacked you or someone else, they know it and you know it. Any extra information you have to give us will only help us now. Today. The only ones you're keeping guessing are the villagers, because the wolves know who they attacked, and you know who you stopped from being killed.
I have a reason. Just waiting to see a few more people's reactions.

Anyway, your guess at the pack is the same as mine. Actually, I thought the same yesterDay, and to, quote Greenie, "nothing has happened to change my mind".
The newbies do throw things out a bit, though, especially Azura,– it's always possible we're dealing with a wolf-cub who has had neither time nor interest even to graps what's going on. However, if Greenie is a wolf, I think Laeko would make the most sense as her fellow– as well as having a history of supporting Inzilawolf.

EDIT:X'd with Boro.

[Boromir88]

The newbies do throw things out a bit, though, especially Azura,– it's always possible we're dealing with a wolf-cub who has had neither time nor interest even to graps what's going on. However, if Greenie is a wolf, I think Laeko would make the most sense as her fellow– as well as having a history of supporting Inzilawolf.


But if Laeko was the 3rd wolf, even after you revealed it wouldn't matter, Greenie, Inzil, and Laeko could have all voted for you and won. Unless...Greenie was unsure Laeko would be back to vote, because I believe Laeko's one post with vote came after Greenie's vote.

[Nerwen]

But if Laeko was the 3rd wolf, even after you revealed it wouldn't matter, Greenie, Inzil, and Laeko could have all voted for you and won. Unless...Greenie was unsure Laeko would be back to vote, because I believe Laeko's one post with vote came after Greenie's vote.

Laeko's post came seven minutes after Greenie's, and both were in the last ten minutes. See, this is what throws the calculations out– if one of the n00bs is a wolf– and really, I don't see what else makes sense– then the others might have been in doubt whether he/she would show up at all.

[Nerwen]

That in itself would point to Azura more than Laeko, but not conclusively. Laeko has just sounded a fair bit more calculatingly wolfy to me– whereas Azura just seems uninterested and confused. Could be a confused *wolf*, though. In fact, come to think of it, you may be right. I mean, there was a fashion a while back for giving newbie wolves minimal guidance, so it wouldn't look like they were being coached.

[Boromir88]

That in itself would point to Azura more than Laeko, but not conclusively. Laeko has just sounded a fair bit more calculatingly wolfy to me– whereas Azura just seems uninterested and confused. Could be a confused *wolf*, though. In fact, come to think of it, you may be right. I mean, there was a fashion a while back for giving newbie wolves minimal guidance, so it wouldn't look like they were being coached.

These next few hours are going to be the death of me, because I keep going back and forth. Laeko was looking suspect before we knew about Inzil's role, and I agree would look more like the calculative wolf.

But when Azura has posted...with just the vote and like 2 sentences. Both times he's tried to play the newbie card. The general "don't hate me, I'm still a newbie" feelings. Which quite frankly, comes off as very wolvy to me.

So we have one first-timer who looks more coached up, and thus suspicious. And the other, who is looking for sympathy "I'm only a newbie," and therefor suspicious. Ugh. :rolleyes:

[Laeko_Randalis]

I've begun suspecting Azura for the past few days, for the one big reason that he never posts anything but votes. Now, on the one hand, it's very possible that this guy just wants to put the least amount of work in. However, my logic goes as thus: "if he were innocent, he wouldn't fear giving anything away, and he'd be more likely to actually say more than just a vote. However, were he a wolf, it would actually make sense for him to say as little as possible in an attempt to avoid giving himself away."

What I don't like in this case is knowing that, unless someone else agrees with me, voting for Azura would be a waste of a vote at this point.

EDIT: I must have spaced off Boro's post, 'cause now I see him making a similar point.

P.S. A "flaw," as it were, in a certain logical string I'm seeing: if I were a calculating/coached wolf, would I really have made my stupid tie-maker back when I voted Nerwen?

[Laeko_Randalis]

Oh, flub it all, I see no one else wants to cast the first vote in that direction, either, so I'm going to do it and hope the wolves don't come for me next.

++Azura

[Nerwen]

P.S. A "flaw," as it were, in a certain logical string I'm seeing: if I were a calculating/coached wolf, would I really have made my stupid tie-maker back when I voted Nerwen?
Why not? Even calculating wolves make mistakes. And dammit, why are you acting like Azura's the only option? We know there's two wolves, and I say there's more against Greenie than anyone else.

[Boromir88]

Oh, flub it all, I see no one else wants to cast the first vote in that direction, either, so I'm going to do it and hope the wolves don't come for me next.

++Azura

No. I'm still here and thinking. I'm just exhausted from the grind right now. And don't know what any more analysis could do to help, as the same possibilities just keep recycling in my head.

I mean, I know of Kath or Greenie, it doesn't make sense for both to be innocent, or both to be wolves. But which one is the wolf, I have no clue anymore. Greenie looks worse, but that's mostly because the last few days I've spent assuming Kath was an innocent seer dream. And that could be a dangerous assumption to make considering the stakes.

Then either you or Azura is a wolf. And while Azura's vote looks bad yesterday, and he has rather suspiciously reminding us of his newbie status...as Nerwen says. He just looks uninterested. While, you Laeko, could have mastered what we would call, slipping under the radar.

[Boromir88]

P.S. A "flaw," as it were, in a certain logical string I'm seeing: if I were a calculating/coached wolf, would I really have made my stupid tie-maker back when I voted Nerwen?

I have no idea, but if you're a wolf, I wouldn't call that vote stupid. But it reminds me now of how frustrated I was with your vote that day.

[Nerwen]

I mean, I know of Kath or Greenie, it doesn't make sense for both to be innocent, or both to be wolves. But which one is the wolf, I have no clue anymore. Greenie looks worse, but that's mostly because the last few days I've spent assuming Kath was an innocent seer dream. And that could be a dangerous assumption to make considering the stakes.
I know. Sally could have dreamed you after all. Or even TEW.

I'm basically leaving you out of this, Boro. Again, I suppose you and Zil could have done a super wolf-on-wolf act yesterDay, but I don't think there's much point worrying about that at this stage.

Anyway, I'll tell you now that I self-protected, so i can't give the village a known innocent. I wanted to hold off saying this in case the wolves gave something away.

EDIT:X'd with Boro; this post took several minutes to load, so I think I've missed the DL.

[Boromir88]

Crap, I started reading about oil tar pits and lost track of time...

++Greenie

(I think the vote will be too late...?)

[Nerwen]

++Greenie.

[Nerwen]

Yep, those votes are too late. That was stupid of me. I should have voted early– my connection did the exact same thing yesterDay.

Do we even know what happens, in the case of a tie?

[Nerwen]

I mean, I had– or should have had– about eight minutes to spare when I made that post *before* my vote-post.

[Boromir88]

Do we even know what happens, in the case of a tie?

I don't think there's a double-lynch, but I don't know how Shasta would break the tie. The standard, last person voted?

[Boromir88]

I mean, I had– or should have had– about eight minutes to spare when I made that post *before* my vote-post.

I read a message linking to a news article about the Keystone Pipeline in Alberta, and for some reason thought I still had like 10-15 minutes.

[Nerwen]

Well, this is really stupid.:rolleyes:

[Nerwen]

I mean, unless whoever ends up dying is, in fact, guilty, this is going to be one horribly anti-climactic end to the game. Spoils it for both sidea, really. Um... sorry.:(

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Since you've lynched the innocent Azura and the wolves have already chosen to kill Nerwen, the game is over. Congratulations to the wolves - Inziladun, Boro, and Kath.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Ah well ah well! But I think given the terrible odds on the last couple of Days, the village put up some fight. Congrats to the WWs, though! Sorry to those I had suspected wrongfully - especially Nerwen. And sorry to those I had ceased to suspect rightfully - namely Boro :p :D And now I also have another good guideline for knowing when Kath is a Wolf. It seemed awkward to me that you seemed so easily readable. Nothing to say about Inzil, though. I had the funny feeling you might be one of the WWs, but you were just too far from the center of my attention...

I am quite happy that neither of the newbies turned to be the WWs, though. Hope the two of you enjoyed it and that you might continue playing with us. Especially Laeko, once the ball got rolling, turned to be quite active, which was nice.

Last of all, I really enjoyed playing this. It must have been ages since I have last played WW. Great stuff and great experience. Thanks, Shasta! And all you wonderful people (despite the not-so-glorious outcome on my part :) ). So when's next?

[satansaloser2005]

You're all horrible people. I'm going to work now.

In my absence, try to actually read my posts for a change, and remember that the cupcake always speaks the truth.

I am disappoint. So very disappoint.

[Inziladun]

Excellent! High fives, mates! Never doubted you for a second.

I have to admit though, the moment Boro sealed my fate on Day 4, my thought was I stayed up 1 1/2 hours past my bedtime for this? ;)


I'm basically leaving you out of this, Boro. Again, I suppose you and Zil could have done a super wolf-on-wolf act yesterDay, but I don't think there's much point worrying about that at this stage. :D

[Boromir88]

The wolf on wolf vote for Inzil the day before...sheer dumb accident (that at least worked to my benefit).

I had no clue what Nerwen was going to do so I was imagining some weird scenario where she voted Inzil, I voted Greenie. Inzil would be lynched, then I'd be exposed and Kath wouldn't look as shiny. Had I not been so paranoid, yeah...flipping mad.

Thanks Shasta. Wonderful game.

That was the first time I was a wolf with Inzil and Kath. Awesome mates. :D

Sorry, Greenie, Legate. I'll fight against my lupinity until I'm lynched. No pity for furriness. :p

[Inziladun]

I had no clue what Nerwen was going to do so I was imagining some weird scenario where she voted Inzil, I voted Greenie. Inzil would be lynched, then I'd be exposed and Kath wouldn't look as shiny. Had I not been so paranoid, yeah...flipping mad.

Heh. I was hoping Azura wouldn't vote and would be modfired, and we could all vote for Greenie and win it right there. The, he and Laeko showed up at the last minute, and there went that plan.

We had talked the Night before about faking a Ranger reveal, but we were only going to do it if our kill on Kitanna had been blocked. When Nerwen revealed right at the end of the Day, it caught me flat-footed. Boro posted something like "Do you have a response to that, Inzil?" I thought it would be pointless to counter Nerwen that late in the Day, as I was already heavily suspected and no one would believe me. My response was to stay silent and put in a vote for Greenie at the last minute, thinking Boro would follow me and if nothing else, we'd have an interesting tie. But it all worked out for the best.

That was the first time I was a wolf with Inzil and Kath. Awesome mates. :D

Same here. I'd never gotten to be packmates with either of you before, and it was a blast.

I didn't have as much time for the game as I'd thought I would, and I was worried that had hurt my side.
The day before the game actually started, I got a new boss, and was handed a routine task that normally I'm given a week to accomplish. This time, I was told it needed to be done by the next day. My apology for being useless on Day 1 was outwardly to everyone, but secretly to my mates. Anyway though, like I said, it turned out all right.

Thanks for modding, Shasta!

And good game, village! I was really hoping you'd accomplish a rare feat and lynch an innocent Nerwen. You made it challenging for us and a lot of fun at the same time.

[Kath]

I'm sorry for my lack of participation on the last Day. Having now read the thread I can see I wasn't really in line for lynching anyway but I did feel like I'd ended up asking for a bye on a Day when the village couldn't afford it.

That said, yay Boro and Inzil! :)

[Laeko_Randalis]

So much for my Azura going submarine theory. Boro was next on my suspicion list solely on account of how he, the most brilliant of all members, hadn't figured out anything in terms of messages Sally had left us. And that was DESPITE the fact that Sally told me she had in fact done so.

[Boromir88]

So much for my Azura going submarine theory. Boro was next on my suspicion list solely on account of how he, the most brilliant of all members, hadn't figured out anything in terms of messages Sally had left us. And that was DESPITE the fact that Sally told me she had in fact done so.

While this did make me laugh, I'm far from the most brilliant, at least I hadn't been able to spot any hidden seer messages. I am curious to find out what her seer dreams were, because I was going off that she dreamed me than Kit and left clues in our GoT bantering. I just manipulated her "I trust your judgement" and reaction to Kath's vote to the pack's wolvish agenda. :p

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Funnily enough, Sally's first dream was of you, Boro. Then Kitanna (though she almost picked Kath), then Greenie.

Nerwen protected Kath twice, but I don't remember who else.

[Galadriel55]

First and foremost, I owe an apology to the village for being so useless. I don't know what got into me on the last couple hours of D2, but next morning, when rereading, I asked my self a number of times where was my head at the critical moment.

One thing that everyone seemed to misinterpret about my behaviour, though, is that I genuinely suspected Nerwen. What is it with hunters and rangers trying to kill each other? :rolleyes: I think it's her name:Nerwen makes me nervous, haha....

About Bom: at Night I automatically sent the name of my second highest suspect (first has been Pitch... is there something about yellow boots that annoys me?) and I was on the verge of switching it to Nerwen, when I thought that I'm very unsure about her - and Bom messes with my brain a lot too - but Bom would be an enigma that no one would know what to do with, so I left my pick as it was...

Wolves have done a terrific job this game. I wasn't sure about anything regarding Kath and Zil, but I was completely certain that Boro was an innocent. Looking back through D1, though...

So, right this moment, G55, Elf-Warrior, Kitanna and Azura haven't posted yet? I'm thinking of taking a random stab in the dark at one of them.

Oh, a stab in the dark, you say! Aha! :P

This is really sad. Just proves the point that in order for an innocent to find out the roles of other players thay just have to take my list of suspicions and invert it. :/

Am I really the only person who saw something seerish in sally before her death? :confused: This, I believe, is the only exception to the above theory.

Anyways, great game everyone, and thanks Shasta for modding!


Oh, and by the way, wolves - why exactly did you kill sally? TEW? Kit?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

In fact, I completely forgot about that...

But at least I can gloat about the famous "sure sally did not dream of innocent Boro, look at her Day 2 list!" claim.

But then again, sally, you weren't the most obvious, were you? Could you please show us blind silly people where exactly did you point your dreams out, if you did? Why, for the love of Eru, didn't you post something clear enough for us to be able to vote him off once you were dead and we knew you were the Seer? You know how dumb we people are! You must be plain with us! :)

And yes, I join Gal: Wolves, why the picks you picked?

[Inziladun]

I don't have the early PMs anymore, but if I remember correctly, our kills were made for these reasons. Correct me if I forget something, mates.

Night 2- TEW: We thought there was a chance he was some sort of Gifted, if not the Seer. We noted he'd used the "Sting" and I think the "Leaf" icons, and thought he was as good a choice as any.

Night 3- Sally: We settled on Sally because we thought she was acting odd in general, and Boro had gotten the hints she'd made about him. We also did not think she was likely to be protected.

Night 4- Kitanna: We were hoping she might be the Ranger, but again the thought of an unlikely protection was the main draw.

I wasn't part of the discussions Night 5. :rolleyes:

[Inziladun]

I forgot to add that our decision to go after Kitanna was also influenced by the impressive back-and-forth between Greenie and Nerwen Day 3. We hoped that if we left them both alive, they would keep after each other and forget about us. ;)

[Boromir88]

Night 5 there wasn't much discussion.

Shasta felt it fair to inform us that the Ranger could self-protect. But here were the PMs I sent to Kath and Shasta about the kill:

Hmm. I still think we can try to go for Nerwen. If she protects herself, all we need is a successful lynch, then we kill Nerwen the next night and it's over. Or Nerwen's already protected herself once, then no worries.

Laeko will probably be seen innocent because of his vote. But if we go for him, this puts you into question, because right now everyone is willing to accept sally dreamed you innocent. If we go for Laeko, they may start questioning that assumption of sally's dream (which in fact was a complete lie made up by me :rolleyes: )

Despite the botch yesterday. I think we can make Greenie and Azura look the most wolvish tomorrow, and Laeko would be a useful ally. Even though Greenie voted for Inzil, we can still make it look wolf-on-wolf since she was the other person under threat to be lynched. We can use that to describe the sort of craziness at the end of yesterday, that 2 wolves were under threat of being lynched and therefor had to vote wolf-on-wolf.

If Nerwen protects herself, it doesn't change much, one more innocent lynch and we'll still win. And you can also have some protection at still looking innocent, because obviously the wolves would want to go for the revealed ranger, and not someone believe dreamed ordo.

Eeeeevilll. :p

[Galadriel55]

Oh, and if you don't mind telling, whoever you are - who gave me a blank rep for my first post on this thread in the middle of D1? :confused::D:Merisu:

[Pitchwife]

Oh my, oh my. Well played, wolves! I had my doubts about Zil, and I couldn't quite place Kath (although you looked mostly good to me most of the game), but I wouldn't have dreamed that Boro would turn out to be a wolf - mostly because I figured out that sally could be the Seer about halfway through Day 1 (where I stopped prodding her about her flirting) and thought she had dreamed him innocent. (Really, sally, if there were any hints pointing to wolf-Boro in your posts, I'd like them pointed out; I'm too dumb for your subtlety.) And that wolf-on-wolf on D4 was high-class. Hats off to Legate for being on the right track!

Moral: Time homines tuxedatos et in lupum necandum suffragantes! (Beware of men in tuxedos even if they vote to lynch a wolf!)

G55, my vote for you on D1 was a bit of a shot in the dark, but you did look a lot like wolf-Gal from last game to me (though with hindsight, it's probably just your style). Then after my death, when you started to de facto beg for being lynched towards the end of D2, I was like "Oh crap, don't say she's the Hunter!" Of course you were, but your choice of pick was another shock, because I'd fully expected you to go after Nerwen (not like that would have been an improvement). Ah well, better luck next time.

(By the way, while your voting me "out of spite" wasn't exactly the best reason, I can't say I didn't understand it, in a way. Are we even now?:))

Bom, that altercation between us on D1 went a bit further than it probably should have gone - I mean, I was aware I was going for an easy target and didn't really have a big point against you, but I was also trying to provoke reactions and catch a wolf who might be too eager to join me in Bom-bashing. (With hindsight, Boro agreeing with me against you might have given me pause, but apparently my sensors were blind on his side. So much for having nice ideas and failing in practice.:rolleyes:) Anyway, I hope we can play again together without me being at your neck on D1.

Alas, my fellow-innocents, we were up against a top sneaky team. Nerwen and Greenie, I wonder whether you could have swung the pendulum with a bit more mutual trust - but that's of course easy to say with hindsight, and you certainly did your best. Laeko and Azura, thanks for playing, I hope you enjoyed the game and will join us for another one (and maybe be a bit more talkative next time around;)).

Thanks for modding, Shasta; it was a fun game, if a bit too short on my part - therefore:
So when's next?
Seconded!

[Galadriel55]

Then after my death, when you started to de facto beg for being lynched towards the end of D2, I was like "Oh crap, don't say she's the Hunter!"

Another point to add to how useless I was. Before the game started I decided I'm gonna try find the Seer, then read the hints and try to look like a Seer, so that the wolves would kill me and lose one of their number, as well of saving the seer the trouble of revealing. And of course those brilliant WW plans never seem to work for me. Although I suspected sally of seering, I didn't get any clues about her dreams. And then I got caught up with suspecting Nerwen -for real. At the very end of D2 I started doubting my suspicions, so when the votes were me-6 and Nerwen-4, with 2 more to vote, I decided that it's better that I'd die, so I didn't reveal until after the voting. I was messing around for a while though - what else is there to do when you're committing suicide?

Of course you were, but your choice of pick was another shock, because I'd fully expected you to go after Nerwen (not like that would have been an improvement). Ah well, better luck next time.

Well, as I said, I almost did go for Nerwen. Almost.

(By the way, while your voting me "out of spite" wasn't exactly the best reason, I can't say I didn't understand it, in a way. Are we even now?:))

Well, I guess so... We would have been if you were a wolf. :p But the fact that I harmed my own side in the voting takes away the shine. I kinda feel that it's the opposite way now, that you have to lynch me to get even again... :D That's what voting out of spite does to you.........


A question (or a few of them) for Boro: did you really fake all that frustration with me on D2? It sounded so genuine that it put a second checkmark next to your innocence in my books, right next to the one for sally's trust. Did you figure out that I must be the Hunter, so you decided to lynch me quick before I could suspect any wolf?

And by the way, if anyone is wondering what the Udun I was talking about when I said that I wrote exactly who I'm hunting, it's here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=663141&postcount=128). On hindsight, I could have devised a more clever way to say it. But I got the idea from a very-long-ago WW game, and since then I usually check posts for this kind of hinting, so I thought others do also. Anyone still wanna try to figure it out, or should I just say it?

[Pitchwife]

And by the way, if anyone is wondering what the Udun I was talking about when I said that I wrote exactly who I'm hunting, it's here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=663141&postcount=128). On hindsight, I could have devised a more clever way to say it. But I got the idea from a very-long-ago WW game, and since then I usually check posts for this kind of hinting, so I thought others do also. Anyone still wanna try to figure it out, or should I just say it?
Ah, it's the initials saying: PREY Bom. Clever indeed, and if you know what to look for, it's rather obvious - if you don't, not so much (but that's the problem with acrostics in general).

[Galadriel55]

Ah, it's the initials saying: PREY Bom. Clever indeed, and if you know what to look for, it's rather obvious - if you don't, not so much (but that's the problem with acrostics in general).

Yup, that's it. (Though I meant the title to also go in it, to say I PREY Bom) I remember a post in some ww game or other that said something like "The first letters of the paragraphs in this post of playerX spell COBBLER". I don't remember who, when, why, and etc said it, but the idea stuck.

[satansaloser2005]

It's nice to know at least one person who's on my side. :eek:


In other news, I woke up ridiculously sick this morning. I didn't sleep well the Night before last, so that didn't help. Anyway, it's doubtful I'll be around much toDay, but I'll try. Hopefully I'll feel better in a few hours (for instance, after killing a werewolf).

....

Oh, and whoever posts a snazzy vote count from yesterDay gets free cupcake snuggles.

And then later in the Day, I talk about said werewolf.

So, my sweet prince, why was EW killed rather than me or Kit or someone else? Theorize! Hypothesize! Lobotomize! (Well, maybe not the last one.)

Cupcake demands an explanation for this Night kill.


First of all, the phrasing in that second post. Not "why do you think EW was killed?" but instead asking "why was EW killed?".

I really hoped that someone would pick up on both my absolute phrasing and the use of my nick to separate fact posts from opinion/suspicion posts. I had intended to point right to my hint system by signing off on what turned out to be my last Day with no other message than the title of this post. I had the feeling Boro was onto me and that I was in danger, and I wanted to be sure that people could clearly see my dream reveals after my death. Unfortunately, I was very ill on Friday night and was in no condition to play Werewolf (hence my sudden vote). :(

Still, the fact that the wolves were able to make such cases for my dreams....


Also, man, did I mess up on Kath. Well played, bad wolf. Well played.

[Nerwen]

I am curious to find out what her seer dreams were, because I was going off that she dreamed me than Kit and left clues in our GoT bantering.
Pushing Kit like that (and then killing her) was probably the single cleverest thing you did. It made me a bit more wary of you, sure, but in connection with her. What do you think the clue about you was?

Yup, that's it. (Though I meant the title to also go in it, to say I PREY Bom) I remember a post in some ww game or other that said something like "The first letters of the paragraphs in this post of playerX spell COBBLER". I don't remember who, when, why, and etc said it, but the idea stuck.
Yeah, but I have to tell you: people almost never find acrostic clues, except with hindsight. (And the exceptions are just as likely to be baddies.)

One thing that everyone seemed to misinterpret about my behaviour, though, is that I genuinely suspected Nerwen. What is it with hunters and rangers trying to kill each other? I think it's her name:Nerwen makes me nervous, haha....

What I think is, certain people picked up gifted-vibes from me, but interpreted them as wolvish– this is fairly common, and was helped on, naturally, by wolves muttering in the background, "of course, it's always dangerous to trust Nerwen..." etc. I think where things fell apart in this game in general is the number of people who, as it seems to me, *began* with the conviction that certain other players were guilty, then constructed a case to support this, without worrying too much about how flimsy it was. That sort of thing can really play into the paws of the wolves.

Anyway, that's enough of a lecture. Well done, wolves!

[Nerwen]

I really hoped that someone would pick up on both my absolute phrasing and the use of my nick to separate fact posts from opinion/suspicion posts.
Um... Sally, I'm sorry to have to say this, but that clue was just impossibly obscure– at least from the village's point of view.

[satansaloser2005]

Um... Sally, I'm sorry to have to say this, but that clue was just impossibly obscure– at least from the village's point of view.

And that's why I was so cross. I had intended to make it more clear that that was the hint system, and then....blankity blank werewolves. Of course I still hoped people would see how I asked Boro about the Night kill and perhaps make something of it, but as for the actual clue system? Alas, it was wasted, due mostly to a failure on my part to man up and actually point the village to what I'd done. :(

However, I am upset that the thing about Kitanna was brushed off so easily. It wasn't the village's fault on that score so much as a certain furry villain we know and love....

Boro, I may never speak to you again. (Call me!) :rolleyes:

[satansaloser2005]

Also, let the record show that, as always, I suspected Nerwen and she was a gifted.

By now, this should surprise no one. :p

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

And that's why I was so cross. I had intended to make it more clear that that was the hint system, and then....blankity blank werewolves. Of course I still hoped people would see how I asked Boro about the Night kill and perhaps make something of it, but as for the actual clue system? Alas, it was wasted, due mostly to a failure on my part to man up and actually point the village to what I'd done. :(

Totally obscure indeed. Well, I think the point of the Seer is to post in the way that people don't understand your hints when you are alive, but in case you die and they start analysing your posts, then when they know you were the Seer, they should be able to, if possible, unambiguously identify your dreams. Especially Wolves, if there were any. Hints like the ones you used might be technically useable if you want to secretly tell people already when you are still alive. But from Day 2 at the least, the Seer is in grave danger of death, if only because of the numeric probability, so one should leave some trails for such case.

But nevermind. I still think you were far more successful than, for example, my Seer-attempts this far had been (I usually dream only of innocents who, on top of that, end up killed the same Night). And, if it consoles you, it was in fact the thing that you omitted Boro from your Day 2 "innocent people" list which lead me to start considering Boro as a suspect in the first place. :)

[Galadriel55]

I blame the chaos on the fact that both Nerwen and Kath voted on Day 1.

:D

[Kath]

Definitely that Galadriel! I said we broke the world and look what happened. :D

I will also add that I finished Day 5 without being lynched. This is a rare thing indeed.

sally ... Boro is the ONLY person in the whole game who even half understood your clues I think. I mean, I know I'm bad at it at the best of times, but that was just mental (to quote Harry Potter rather than GoT).

[satansaloser2005]

Definitely that Galadriel! I said we broke the world and look what happened. :D

I will also add that I finished Day 5 without being lynched. This is a rare thing indeed.

sally ... Boro is the ONLY person in the whole game who even half understood your clues I think. I mean, I know I'm bad at it at the best of times, but that was just mental (to quote Harry Potter rather than GoT).

And then you tricked me! How very dare you!


I think my biggest misstep was accidentally making a GoT reference. I've never even read the things. :rolleyes:

[satansaloser2005]

....I died on my death day. :smokin:

[Galadriel55]

....I died on my death day. :smokin:

Wow! :eek: What a coincidence!

And happy deathday! 4 years, right?

[A Little Green]

First off - Shasta, thanks for modding!
Secondly - hats off to the wolves, you did a very good job!

Thirdly - never thought I'd be able to say "I told you so" after a game in which I spent the first three Days convinced that our Ranger was a wolf... :rolleyes:

[Kitanna]

Out of those wolves Zil was the only one I suspected and that's cause he wanted to lynch me. :rolleyes: Well played everyone.

[Inziladun]

Thirdly - never thought I'd be able to say "I told you so" after a game in which I spent the first three Days convinced that our Ranger was a wolf...

I was hoping you would stay after Nerwen instead of voting me, but then she had to ruin it with a reveal.

Thanks for sharing.keep it up.

You're thanking me for "sharing" with admins the fact that you're a spammer? Well, you're welcome! And I will keep it up! :p

Out of those wolves Zil was the only one I suspected and that's cause he wanted to lynch me. :rolleyes: Well played everyone.

Well, what's a wolf to do? ;)