WW: LXXXVIII - Trouble in the Misty Mountains: Game Thread

[Shastanis Althreduin]

The wind whistled through the peaks as the caravaners stopped for the night. The small traders caravan had been scheduled to be at their destination two days ago, but constant mishaps on the road through the Misty Mountains had lengthened their travel time considerably.

The caravan's guide looked at the caravan boss.

"Shasta", this looks like a good place to camp," he said nervously, knowing that he probably wasn't going to get a good review from this client, given that they were lost and had been for quite some time.

Shasta growled under his breath.

"It had better be."

He put two fingers to his mouth and whistled; taking that as their signal, the caravaners circled their wagons and made preparations to set up for a night's rest.

----------------------------

Shasta, having followed the call of nature in the early morning hours, was on his way back to his own wagon. Fantasizing about the warm blankets and soft bed waiting for him after his trudge through the snow, he had no idea he was being watched.

----------------------------

"We never should have agreed to this," a raspy voice snarled.

"Shut up! We're doing what we're supposed to - the mountain said so!" another voice rumbled from the dark.

Shasta froze. The voices were coming from behind him, and they were vaguely familiar. He racked his brain, thinking. Sure, some of the guards and merchants were new hires and partners, that he'd never seen before, but that didn't mean they were a bad sort, did it? But still...

A third voice came from in front of him, hidden in the dark.

"Out by yourself on a night like tonight, eh? Looks like you'll be the first one to pay."

Shasta began to open his mouth, to yell for someone, anyone, to wake up the wagons - they were all in danger. He didn't even get past the first choked gurgle before three bodies were upon him, ripping him to shreds with claws and teeth.

----------------------------------

The travelers had woken up in the dawn light to find a grisly scene. Their caravan boss lay in pieces scattered around their campfire, and the axle on each and every one of the wagons had been splintered. Until they could fix the wagons, they were stuck... and they had no idea what had savaged Shasta so badly.



Day 1 begins (and yes, it is a bit early. Wolves may PM until 12:00 am.)

Living:

Legate
Sally
Inzil
Greenie
Kath
Kitanna
Bom
Pitch
Nerwen
G55
The Elf-Warrior
Boro
Azura
Laeko_Rundalis

Not so much:

Shasta - Mod - Savaged Night 0

[Inziladun]

First? After seven hours? Really?

Well, at any rate, it seems clear the guide is one of the ones responsible for this. Now, which one of you is the guide, again? :rolleyes:

[Nerwen]

My poor treasure! And nobody cares!:(

...All right, then, someone else hurry up and post, so we can invoke the "first three posters" rule and begin the accusations.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

First? After seven hours? Really?

Well, at any rate, it seems clear the guide is one of the ones responsible for this. Now, which one of you is the guide, again? :rolleyes:
I think the guide is not necessarily responsible. It does not seem to say anything about the guide in the second part. The three chaps are responsible, as far as I read it. Um... no, I am not the guide... put the thing away!!!

On a more serious note...

...All right, then, someone else hurry up and post, so we can invoke the "first three posters" rule and begin the accusations.

Three.

I don't know what to start with, so just for recapitulation: we have what, 3 wolves, seer, hunter, and ranger. Given the numbers... given the numbers, I just hope we lynch people wisely. Then again, the odds are not that bad, the chance to lynch a Wolf is not that low. Also (and now perhaps something at least partially substantial comes at last), is it wise to assume that with this low numbers, the WWs won't wish to vote/accuse/whatever each other? Discuss :)

[Boromir88]

3 chaps? Nature is more deadly than 3 chaps. As much as we can love and protect nature, nature tends to find some pretty gruesome and painful ways to kill us. Alligators, bears, poisoned mushrooms, spiders, rabid raccoons, manchineel. If you don't die, you will at least be in remarkable pain.

Also (and now perhaps something at least partially substantial comes at last), is it wise to assume that with this low numbers, the WWs won't wish to vote/accuse/whatever each other? Discuss

It always depends upon the wolf, you know this. They can win with 1 just as they can win with 3. It probably doesn't matter to them. I trust also by "lynching wisely" you mean don't lynch the gifteds? Easier said then done, since gifteds typically by the nature of their role, attract more attention then wolves.

[satansaloser2005]

Boro, my prince, hold me. Our beloved Shasta is dead, and these horrible villains could come after any one of us next. How will we cope?

Simple. We will run away, our lives again like the fairy tale of old, and we shall rid ourselves of this predicament and be free to be together forever. What say you, my love?

[satansaloser2005]

Also, why do I feel like I'm trapped in Tolkien's rendition of Oregon Trail?

[Inziladun]

...All right, then, someone else hurry up and post, so we can invoke the "first three posters" rule and begin the accusations.

Right, then. I accuse everyone. That should cover it.

I think the guide is not necessarily responsible. It does not seem to say anything about the guide in the second part. The three chaps are responsible, as far as I read it. Um... no, I am not the guide... put the thing away!!!

The guide did just happen to get us lost, though. We could have all been safe and sound in Rivendell by now. That was where we were going, right?

Given the numbers... given the numbers, I just hope we lynch people wisely. Then again, the odds are not that bad, the chance to lynch a Wolf is not that low. Also (and now perhaps something at least partially substantial comes at last), is it wise to assume that with this low numbers, the WWs won't wish to vote/accuse/whatever each other? Discuss :)

Of course, with a smaller field, the odds of hitting wolves are better, but so are the odds of getting a Gifted.

As for as wolvish tactics, I don't think anything could be ruled out. I wouldn't think wolf-on-wolf would be necessary, but who knows?

It always depends upon the wolf, you know this. They can win with 1 just as they can win with 3. It probably doesn't matter to them. I trust also by "lynching wisely" you mean don't lynch the gifteds? Easier said then done, since gifteds typically by the nature of their role, attract more attention then wolves.

What he said.

Also, why do I feel like I'm trapped in Tolkien's rendition of Oregon Trail?

*WIN* :D

[Bom Tombadillo]

Oh no, we're all going to die, hum-de-dum.

Nerwen looks suspicious. Not for any particular reason, just for existing.
Nogrod clearly must die. That's going to be hard, since he's not here.
Legate and Inziladun are doubly suspicious for both being among both the first three posters and the first three on the list of the living (who as we all know are always wolves).
The Elf-warrior is clearly in league with the wolves. How do I know this, you ask? Simple. His name starts with a T. T is the 19th letter of the alphabet. There are three wolves. 19+3 = 22. W is the 22nd letter of the alphabet - W as in Wolf. Therefore, he must die. Clearly, my reasoning is flawless.
Sally makes reference to something called "Oregon Trail." Wolf-code, perhaps?*
*Yes, I know what it is.
Boro seems to be attempting to downplay the deadliness of the wolves. Trying to get us to lower our guard?
Azura and Laeko_Rundalis? I've never seen them before. Clearly wolves.
Greenie, Kath and Kitanna are guilty for not having posted yet.
The fact that myself, G55 and Pitchwife mentioned that we did not have our roles yet is a clear indicator that we collectively predicted the future declaration that anybody who was not sent a role PM was an ordo and were trying to establish ourselves clearly as such.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nerwen
...All right, then, someone else hurry up and post, so we can invoke the "first three posters" rule and begin the accusations.
Right, then. I accuse everyone. That should cover it.
No, no, no. Let's not get extravagant. Surely it is enough that you, Legate and I have clearly incriminated ourselves?

EDIT:X'd with Bom.

[Pitchwife]

Boro, my prince, hold me. Our beloved Shasta is dead, and these horrible villains could come after any one of us next. How will we cope?

Simple. We will run away, our lives again like the fairy tale of old, and we shall rid ourselves of this predicament and be free to be together forever. What say you, my love?
Not meaning to preempt Boro's reply, but last time I looked, there were no lovers in this game (and thank Goddess for small favours). What are you up to, my dear?



The guide did just happen to get us lost, though. We could have all been safe and sound in Rivendell by now. That was where we were going, right?

It's all the guide's fault? How convenient - and I was thinking we had to catch Werewolves.
Seriously, IC accusations of NPC's are fine for first posts, but harping on about it once people have begun to talk makes me raise an eyebrow.


Boro seems to be attempting to downplay the deadliness of the wolves. Trying to get us to lower our guard?

Where was he attempting to do any such thing? You could have said that of Legate's speculation about wolves being less likely to vote W-on-W, if he was serious about it (which I doubt); if anything, Boro argued against that.
No comments on the rest of your list, which is just early D1 banter, but this sticks out as the only suspicion with something approaching a reason behind it.

[satansaloser2005]

Goddess? Oh, goodness! What all did they do to Shasta? :eek:

[Laeko_Randalis]

Laeko looked at the guide's remains, and noticed the broken wheels. "If it, or they, broke our wheels, then they wish to make victims of us all. If they only took out the guide, then they are cowards who cannot hope to match us in open combat. Or at least," he added, "not yet."

"The question, then, is who, or what, did this?"

[satansaloser2005]

"The question, then, is who, or what, did this?"

Will the three live werewolves please stand up?


I regret nothing.



So where are the rest of you people? Even Nerwen showed up already. ;)

[Bom Tombadillo]

Where was he attempting to do any such thing? You could have said that of Legate's speculation about wolves being less likely to vote W-on-W, if he was serious about it (which I doubt); if anything, Boro argued against that.
No comments on the rest of your list, which is just early D1 banter, but this sticks out as the only suspicion with something approaching a reason behind it.

And yet again somebody completely misses the fact that I was joking. It's early in Day 1 yet, I'm hardly going to do anything but joke.

Will the three live werewolves please stand up?

Ooh! Me! Me!

Waiiiit . . . aw, cheesesticks. You got me. :D

[Boromir88]

Not meaning to preempt Boro's reply, but last time I looked, there were no lovers in this game (and thank Goddess for small favours). What are you up to, my dear?

My guess is a reference to a story and sally is anticipating I recognized the reference, to in someway help her form an opinion.

I think I know the reference, Game of Thrones? And she better not be acting like Sansa. How I do not like that girl, although to give her a princely "As you wish" response, I will have to wait and see what her reasons are...at this point it could be, the long lull means she misses one of her princes, or she plans to nomnom soon.

Whatever the intentions, I don't plan on voting sally, unless she wants to stand up to her very own question of asking the 3 wolves to stand.

Where was he attempting to do any such thing? You could have said that of Legate's speculation about wolves being less likely to vote W-on-W, if he was serious about it (which I doubt); if anything, Boro argued against that.
No comments on the rest of your list, which is just early D1 banter, but this sticks out as the only suspicion with something approaching a reason behind it.

Well, I took that as a paraphrase from a book I've recently read. I really had no point to it, other than I thought the deadliness of nature is ironically humorous.

And yet again somebody completely misses the fact that I was joking. It's early in Day 1 yet, I'm hardly going to do anything but joke.


I know enough by now to know you're always joking on Day 1. But that is itself the point. No matter what, you're going to use your jokes as a shield. So, really, I don't think Pitch was missing the point. I will grant that your jokes and reasons, I did actually laugh at this time.

[satansaloser2005]

My sweet prince, I've simply missed you. Don't you trust me? :rolleyes:

I remember the Days when we were happy and together, and the wolves couldn't threaten us. They were good Days, and I wish we could return to them. That's all.

And yes, don't vote me. Innocent!Sally is innocent, and that would be a bad move.


So....where are Kath and Greenie? Shouldn't the lovely ladies be around by now?

[Pitchwife]

And yet again somebody completely misses the fact that I was joking. It's early in Day 1 yet, I'm hardly going to do anything but joke.
Oh, I did get that the rest of your list was joking; but this was your only comment on anybody that wasn't meta or just plain nonsense, but based on something the other person had allegedly said (and hadn't); it may have been a joke, or it may have been something to build on later, as long as nobody checked. Without being able to look into your head, how am I supposed to know?

(x-ed with Boro & sally)

[Inziladun]

It's all the guide's fault? How convenient - and I was thinking we had to catch Werewolves.
Seriously, IC accusations of NPC's are fine for first posts, but harping on about it once people have begun to talk makes me raise an eyebrow.

Oh, I see. The first post was all right, but mentioning the guide IC in response to another's comment is "harping". You learn something new every day. :rolleyes:

And since the bit about "It's our job to get the baddies!" is known to be a Captain Obvious wolf-tactic to buddy up with the village, Pitch is now on the radar.

Laeko looked at the guide's remains, and noticed the broken wheels. "If it, or they, broke our wheels, then they wish to make victims of us all. If they only took out the guide, then they are cowards who cannot hope to match us in open combat. Or at least," he added, "not yet."

Technically, it's the "boss" and not the "guide" who's been killed. Just sayin'.

x/d with Sally and Pitch

[Bom Tombadillo]

I know enough by now to know you're always joking on Day 1. But that is itself the point. No matter what, you're going to use your jokes as a shield. So, really, I don't think Pitch was missing the point. I will grant that your jokes and reasons, I did actually laugh at this time.

Shield? A shield for what? I promise I have nothing to hide. But it's either joke or say nothing (or make obvious observations about the rules), and joking is more interesting.

Although I suppose my jokes are a bit more than that - I've noticed that those who overreact to them tend to have something to hide. *cough*Pitchwife*cough*

EDIT: x-ed with Pitchie and Inziladun. All right, I see your reasoning (though I'm still suspicious of you for other reasons). Still, as I said, I rarely do anything but joke this early in the game.

[Kath]

So guess what? I made it!

Participation warning - I'm at school til 5, moving house, and in bed by 11. So my level of participation will be about normal! :D But if I haven't voted by 11 it's safe to say I've forgotten and won't return.

I think I've played with nearly everyone on the list before except the two newbies. Can say straight up that I'm almost definitely not voting for either of them. Unless one of them pulls a Fea and replies to sally's comment with 'Hey yeah I'm a wolf!' anyway - I want to see them play. :)

Do you know I so rarely make it here this early I'm not quite sure what to do with myself. Too early for my usual lists ... unless I did a Bom style one and tbh where's the point?

Legate is right about the numbers being low. So much depends on the events of toDay and toNight though as to whether the level affects us positively or negatively. If we get a wolf toDay and they kill an ordo rather than a Gifted, or the Ranger pulls off a protection, toNight then the numbers even out better. Two ordos go ... not so great. Captain Obvious statement I guess though.

[A Little Green]

Only now back home after a dreadful day at work, and currently feeling really really sick, so don't expect coherence. I feel like going straight to bed but I guess I'd better not..

A few things stand out, at a half-feverish reading. First, both Bom and Sally are making a show of being innocent and having nothing to hide - statements that make me raise my hackles, banter or no. Second, I don't know if it's just because my head's more messed up than usual that I can't read properly or what, but I have trouble deciphering whether what people post is banter or serious stuff or something in between. Third, it's been ridiculously quiet, but since I'm myself here only now I can hardly make a complaint about that.


EDIT: x-ed with Kath... wait - Kath?? :D

[A Little Green]

As for as wolvish tactics, I don't think anything could be ruled out. I wouldn't think wolf-on-wolf would be necessary, but who knows? On the other hand, in a smaller village, too "nice" relationships between players are harder to hide. Or too blatantly wolf-on-wolf ones, in fact. So - err - I kind of lost the thread of what I was saying, but I hope someone can catch something of what I was trying to say.

[satansaloser2005]

On the other hand, in a smaller village, too "nice" relationships between players are harder to hide. Or too blatantly wolf-on-wolf ones, in fact. So - err - I kind of lost the thread of what I was saying, but I hope someone can catch something of what I was trying to say.

There are less people to keep track of, so it's easier to keep track of them, and thus harder to hide sketchy interactions.

Yes?

[A Little Green]

There are less people to keep track of, so it's easier to keep track of them, and thus harder to hide sketchy interactions.

Yes?Yes. Thank you, dear.

[Pitchwife]

And since the bit about "It's our job to get the baddies!" is known to be a Captain Obvious wolf-tactic to buddy up with the village, Pitch is now on the radar.
Be my guest. At least you're suspecting somebody now.

Bom, which "other reasons"?

So guess what? I made it!
*noise of world view being shattered*

I think I've played with nearly everyone on the list before except the two newbies. Can say straight up that I'm almost definitely not voting for either of them. Unless one of them pulls a Fea and replies to sally's comment with 'Hey yeah I'm a wolf!' anyway - I want to see them play. :)
Me too.

There are less people to keep track of, so it's easier to keep track of them, and thus harder to hide sketchy interactions.
Good point. So what is it with you playing Sansa and the Fool with Boro?
(And OT, doesn't being threatened by wolves make you more like a Lannister?)

[A Little Green]

I seriously can't do this today. I'm sorry, folks.

[Boromir88]

Be my guest. At least you're suspecting somebody now.

And you may see the first vote coming soon, unless someone else beats me to it.

Out of those who have said something, at least, I'm not seeing anything alarmingly suspicious to vote. Greenie and Kath popping in to either to be incoherent due to a half-feverish state or just to say hi, is pretty much all that stands out in terms of suspicion. Which isn't much of anything, considering bad news if Greenie not a wolf but is sick, because being perceptive and coherent is what she's best at. And it's a remarkable occurence that Kath remembered about WW at all. Having said that, she'll probably forget she even said hi and thus forget to vote. :rolleyes:

So, right this moment, G55, Elf-Warrior, Kitanna and Azura haven't posted yet? I'm thinking of taking a random stab in the dark at one of them.

Bom, what I meant, was regardless of your role, you would make the same Day 1 post, and same defense that you were joking. Makes it hard to not think you're hiding something, whether you actually are or not.

Edit: crossed with Greenie. Make a vote at least? Come on, I'm rather weary of this trend in abstaining with Day 1 votes. I guess that's every players choice, but seriously, no matter the method, I couldn't care less. Get a name put the ++'s in front, if you're wrong, you're wrong. No big deal.

[Bom Tombadillo]

@Pitchwife: Mainly because you're so horribly vicious. It seems like you're overly eager to divert suspicion away from yourself.

@Boromir88: Okay, I see why you would be suspicious. And as usual, all I can give is my assurance that I have nothing to hide.

Also, I would like to third the motion not to kill the new players. Not toDay anyways (though possibly toNight . . . fresh meat, ahahaha).

[Galadriel55]

Apologies for everyone for being so late. I have been up last night doing work and couldn't make myself wake up a bit earlier this morning. I just came back from school and I'm typing this as I read through the thread.

Will the three live werewolves please stand up?

*stands up* Pick me! Pick me!!!

EDIT: x-ed with Pitchie and Inziladun. All right, I see your reasoning (though I'm still suspicious of you for other reasons). Still, as I said, I rarely do anything but joke this early in the game.

That you sure do! But I also noticed that you're quick to point fingers at Pitch and Inzil. I think that for the upteenth game of being suspected for jokes you're overreacting a bit. And what other reasons, preciousss?

[Caught up in reading to Pitchie's post whre he says the same thing about the reasons; I was writing as I went. I also Bom's reply... sorry about the repetition]

So, right this moment, G55, Elf-Warrior, Kitanna and Azura haven't posted yet? I'm thinking of taking a random stab in the dark at one of them.

Oh, a stab in the dark, you say! Aha! ;) :P

Bom, what I meant, was regardless of your role, you would make the same Day 1 post, and same defense that you were joking. Makes it hard to not think you're hiding something, whether you actually are or not.

Which is why I think it's pointless to challange his joking manner. :smokin: I would look at how people react to it instead.


This game - unsurprisingly - turned to the discussion of how to look at Bom's jokes. Seriously, don't you lot ever get tired of that?

On one side there is Bom making his regular statement that he's joking. Did you learn it by heart already, Bom? :P

On the other side there are Pichie, Zil, and Boro (did I miss anyone?) being suspicious. Did you also learn the accusations by heart?

Seriously. Even a discussion about rules and roles is more exciting - the rules change every once in a while.

Note that I'm neither defending nor accusing any one of these people. At least not yet. I'm just saying how pointless this debate is. (And how hypocritical is that - just adding to it? :rolleyes:)

[Galadriel55]

I haven't made much of an opinion of anyone yet (gonna reread a bit and try to work on that) but right now I am putting Bom, Pitch, Boro, and Zil on my "keep watch on" list. Just in case. For overreacting to each other.

Once again - it has been said that Bom is using his jokes as a shield. True. But you are also using them as weapons. Makes sense?

[Bom Tombadillo]

Wait - I pointed fingers at Inzil? 'Splain, please.

If you're referring to the bit you quoted, what I said was meant to apply only to Pitchwife.

[Pitchwife]

@Pitchwife: Mainly because you're so horribly vicious. It seems like you're overly eager to divert suspicion away from yourself.
Like where, when? Because I 'overreacted' to your alleged jokes and tried to coax some sense out of you?
Look, Bom, if you're innocent, I'd hate to get into a fight with you over your playing style and give the wolves something to latch on to, but you're not making it particularly easy for me not to. It might help to hear what you think of the rest of this caravan. (And don't give me none of that "It's Day 1, too early to say" crap.)

But I also noticed that you're quick to point fingers at Pitch and Inzil.
Unless I've overlooked something, I was the only one pointing anything at Zil, Bom didn't.


Note that I'm neither defending nor accusing any one of these people. At least not yet. I'm just saying how pointless this debate is. (And how hypocritical is that - just adding to it? :rolleyes:)
If you have a more pointful debate to suggest, I'm all ears. Until then, may I remark that "neither defending nor accusing", but hovering over the field like a dove with the olive branch of peace in her beak would be quite a convenient position for a wolf, wouldn't it?

(x-ed with Bom; exactly.)

[The Elf-warrior]

Some random thoughts. The problem with trying to figure out how wolves will behave is that they can adjust their behavior accordingly. They can be at each others throats if we say they'll act chummy with each other, for example. However, we can try to sniff out lycanthropy in people's posts like you all have been doing.

To me, Sally is acting like Sally which doesn't say anything about her guilt or innocence. I'm neutral in regards to her guilt or innocence. Nerwen and Laeko_Randalis are the same way.

I am detecting a slight, slight wolvish vibe in the final paragraph of Legate's first post. I think any advantage of having a smaller field is outweighed by the sheer numerical fact that the smaller the village is, the closer the wolves are to winning.

[Bom Tombadillo]

It might help to hear what you think of the rest of this caravan. (And don't give me none of that "It's Day 1, too early to say" crap.)

Umm. You're really the only one giving me anything to go on, so I'm afraid I really have no choice but to give you the "too early to say" line.

If you have a more pointful debate to suggest, I'm all ears. Until then, may I remark that "neither defending nor accusing", but hovering over the field like a dove with the olive branch of peace in her beak would be quite a convenient position for a wolf, wouldn't it?

That sort of thing is exactly what I meant when I mentioned you being vicious - she tries to stop a seemingly pointless fight and you think it means she's a wolf. After all, that sort of argument can be applied to literally anybody, since any indication of innocence can be passed off as a wolf deliberately acting that way. You're going after people - you must be a wolf trying to focus the village's attention on somebody else. I'm making jokes - it must be a way of avoiding saying anything that could be incriminating. Laeko, Azura, Greenie, Kath and Kitanna are being quiet and Sally is making jokes - see above. And so on and so on until you've pointed the figurative finger at everybody in the village.

[Pitchwife]

I haven't made much of an opinion of anyone yet (gonna reread a bit and try to work on that) but right now I am putting Bom, Pitch, Boro, and Zil on my "keep watch on" list. Just in case. For overreacting to each other.
Might that have something to do with the fact that we're the only ones who've voiced any concrete suspicions?

Once again - it has been said that Bom is using his jokes as a shield. True. But you are also using them as weapons. Makes sense?
No. I didn't suspect him for joking, I suspected him for what I thought was him being serious between the jokes, and hiding it among the jokes.


To me, Sally is acting like Sally which doesn't say anything about her guilt or innocence. I'm neutral in regards to her guilt or innocence. Nerwen and Laeko_Randalis are the same way.
More or less agreed. I'll be keeping an eye on sally, but she's not that high on my priority list up to now.


I am detecting a slight, slight wolvish vibe in the final paragraph of Legate's first post. I think any advantage of having a smaller field is outweighed by the sheer numerical fact that the smaller the village is, the closer the wolves are to winning.
You're right there, but to me that post reads more like typical Legate-ish weighing the pros and cons. As for his question whether the wolves might be less likely to w-on-w, I already said I don't think he was serious about it (he knows better and knows that we know better), it looks more like he was trying to get some discussion going about the game dynamics faute de mieux.


EDIT: x-ed with Bom

[Kath]

Ahem, not to give credence to Boro but ... yeah so I said hi, started planning, and forgot about this til now.

I need to vote in this post and head to bed. As I said, won't vote for a newbie. I'm also not going to vote for a non-turner-upper for a couple of reasons. 1) If we have modfire (do we?) and they don't turn up toMorrow as well it's a waste of a vote. 2) It would be deeply hypocritical.

So, who has posted?

Inzil - a loudmouth with some good discussion points! Like it.

Nerwen - pass given she's only posted, what, once?

Legate - got some good discussion started on the possible tactics of the wolves. No solid answers of course but it did get people talking.

Boro - pretty aggressive towards Greenie. Day 1s do get people riled up but sickness is sickness. If she's hallucinating words on the screen it's time to head to bed!

Greenie - speaking of, pass for toDay given what I said above.

Bom - see Galadriel.

Pitch - not quite sure where the 'harping on' discussion came from but it did get a reaction which may have been the aim.

Galadriel - kind of with her on the Bom joke scandal. Maybe it's due to missing games recently but I didn't even pay attention to these so-called jokes. They were just random nonsense to me, as is nearly everything sally has said so far. Why isn't she being suspected? Just history? 'Cause if so, could be time to let it go.

Elf Warrior - like the point about the wolves, not so keen on the point about Legate. To me he was starting discussion not stating fact.

Based on that I'm going to vote:

++sally

I feel she's a player that shows her mettle better under a bit of pressure. I know she's got the brains. Let's see 'em!

And goodnight.

[Pitchwife]

That sort of thing is exactly what I meant when I mentioned you being vicious - she tries to stop a seemingly pointless fight and you think it means she's a wolf. After all, that sort of argument can be applied to literally anybody, since any indication of innocence can be passed off as a wolf deliberately acting that way. You're going after people - you must be a wolf trying to focus the village's attention on somebody else. I'm making jokes - it must be a way of avoiding saying anything that could be incriminating. Laeko, Azura, Greenie, Kath and Kitanna are being quiet and Sally is making jokes - see above. And so on and so on until you've pointed the figurative finger at everybody in the village.
Bom, you're probably not aware of this, as we haven't played that much together, but my nickname among the WW crowd is Mr Agreeable, and it wasn't given for nothing. In the past, I've regularly been suspected for being too, well, agreeable, being too noncommittal, not suspecting people in earnest etc.pp. It's happened when I was a wolf, and it's happened when I was innocent, and I've got tired of it, so I'm trying my damnedest to break the habit. Which means if I see somebody doing/saying something that I think could be wolvish, I'm going to point it out and pester them about it until I get a satisfying reaction. If I shrugged it all off as just their respective playing style, we'd never get anywhere, would we?

Anyway, thanks for your answer. For what it's worth, I think you've removed yourself from my list of eligible votees for toDay.


EDIT: x-ed with Kath.

[Boromir88]

That sort of thing is exactly what I meant when I mentioned you being vicious - she tries to stop a seemingly pointless fight and you think it means she's a wolf. After all, that sort of argument can be applied to literally anybody, since any indication of innocence can be passed off as a wolf deliberately acting that way. You're going after people - you must be a wolf trying to focus the village's attention on somebody else. I'm making jokes - it must be a way of avoiding saying anything that could be incriminating. Laeko, Azura, Greenie, Kath and Kitanna are being quiet and Sally is making jokes - see above. And so on and so on until you've pointed the figurative finger at everybody in the village.

Well, actually, I'm pretty suspicious of G55's first post too.

Firstly, it seems to be she's the one trying to make a bigger deal out of an argument between you and Pitch. My problem so far today has been there really is no reaction to anything, let alone over-reacting. What Pitch said about your suspicions nad what you said back is perhaps the most tame disagreement possible in WW.

But then G55 steps in, says several people are over reacting to a pointless debate, reaches the conclusion it's all pointless but she'll watch everyone involved and look what happened next, you and Pitch ramp up the argument.

I would have said no one "over reacted" until possibly my edit pleading for at least a vote from Greenie, or until the recent exchange between you and Pitch. Which seems provoked, even with G55's attempt to say the whole argument was pointless.

[Pitchwife]

I'm kinda torn about Kath's vote - meaning I see where she's coming from, but I'd rather give sally the benefit of doubt for toDay.

Speaking of votes, it's past sensible bedtime for me. I'd like to see more of Zil, Kath, Greenie and Nerwen, Boro looks rather innocent to me, as does *surprise surprise* Bom after his last reply to me, and I'm not going to vote for our newbies nor for anyone who hasn't spoken yet but yet may, but I don't like G55's "I'm so beyond your pointless debates" attitude, so:

++Galwurstiel55

Good night, and as always, á vala Manwë.

(x-ed with Boro)

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Kath
So guess what? I made it!
*noise of world view being shattered*
I mean, well, gosh, the next thing you know, I'll manage to vote for somebody on Day One! :eek: *sound of entire universe imploding*

...back when I've finished reading.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Nooo! I had such a nice post and my stupid internet decided to get off just as I posted it. Okay, but fortunately, it did not include much information. I will make a brief summary:

Legate - iz me
Sally - typical joky-sally, nothing much to gather from that this far, so let's wait if there appears something giving a more coherent picture in the future.
Inzil - good old Zil seems like good? old Zil, nothing standing out this far
Greenie - seemingly tired today, but actually the point she brought about it being difficult for people to hide more extreme relationships in both directions (i.e. being too nice or too against to each other) was probably one of the more important things said today. I surely wouldn't put it past her to say such a thing as a Wolf, but for now, I'm giving her pass.
Kath - actually very sensible, rather innocentish feeling (which is interesting, since I usually can't read her - or it at least used to be that way - now should I be worried? Then again, that used to happen regardless of what her role was.) - green light for now.
Kitanna - no show
Bom - all the buzz made me reread his posts carefully, and after rereading them, I very much think him innocent (even though I don't like people posting too much only jokes etc, but that has often nothing to do with Wolfiness/innocence).
Pitch - his original attack on Bom made me pause about him, but then again, if his later explanation of his "not trying to be just Mr. Agreeable" tactic was genuine, it would make sense. So unless it was a double-trick or a double-double trick or...
Nerwen - hmm, nothing much to read from what she said
G55 - is here, seems, how do you call it, involved; nothing suspicious this far.
The Elf-Warrior - regarding the wolvish vibe thing, have you ever heard of optimism being half the victory? Anyway, otherwise, the post does not say very much, maybe just a remark, why not saying more about other players who were more active (all those Pitches, Boms, Boros, whatnot)?
Boro - originally made me feel uncomfortable with his all the time prodding people, but then I remembered that this is actually a typical innocent Boro. So, I am fine with him, as long as he keeps it that way, and not a fake...
Azura - nothing
Laeko_Rundalis - one IC post, nothing much to go with


So, I at least know whom I am not going to vote. Also, upholding the ancient tradition, I won't vote for either of the newbies. A random question then: when exactly is the DL? Somewhat messy, the first post is (in other words: wondering if I should vote now or if I can still sleep and vote then).

Also sorry for my not much participation earlier today, but this has been a messy-timetable-day for me too.

EDIT: and x-ed with Pitchwife, Boro and Nerwen.

[Boromir88]

A random question then: when exactly is the DL? Somewhat messy, the first post is (in other words: wondering if I should vote now or if I can still sleep and vote then).


Midnight CST. I don't know what that is for you, but it should be 5 hours from now.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Midnight CST. I don't know what that is for you, but it should be 5 hours from now.

Okay, should go normally by the timestamp then. I just wasn't sure. That means however voting for me now.

Well, who is left, then: some people of whom I don't have a clear opinion (Sally, Zil, Nerwen, G55), one of whom I have some thoughts but still would be able to vote him, if it came to that (Pitch), one no-show (Kitanna) and one vote which would seem awfully retaliatory (Elf-Warrior, even though in fact there hasn't been that much to retaliate to either). I could probably go for that one, even, because it is the same as with the others, plus there is the thing I said earlier: why to talk about people who have hardly posted (especially of Laeko who posted only IC) if there are others who had been posting much more? But EW does not have time to explain it now, so it's difficult. And again, looking at it, he said these were "random thoughts", so... ah well.

Okay. Hanging around for a couple of minutes still, and then we shall see...

[Kitanna]

I honestly forgot the Day had started. I thought about it five minutes ago. I'm rushing to catch up and take care of RL stuff at the same time. I'll return in...half an hourish with comments.

[Inziladun]

Today has ended up being quite a bit busier than I'd hoped. I'm finally home now, but with only about an hour and a half before bedtime. 0515 comes awfully early.

I certainly won't held it against Greenie for being ill, so I'll not vote for her. Same with the newbies, Laeko_Rundalis and Azura, who get the standard Day 1 pass. Both need to pick it up though. That pass is only valid for one Day.

I see Pitch and Bom have continued their back-and-forth. Not sure exactly what to make of it, except that it doesn't have the feel of wolf-on-wolf. Pitch was looking slightly better, but now I need to think about his vote.
Bom looks pretty much like Bom, which really doesn't tell me anything.

And I have to echo the :eek: at the fact that Kath not only posted on a Day 1, but actually voted. The flying pigs ought to be around momentarily.

Also, we have votes, I think.

Kath-->Sally (1)
Pitch-->G55 (1)

I'm too tired to make a list, but back in a bit.

[The Elf-warrior]

Actually, Legate, I had and still have time. I was trying to prod you with my remark and your responses seem unwolvish to me. In response to your question, it's easier to make comments about people who haven't said much.

[Nerwen]

Bom - all the buzz made me reread his posts carefully, and after rereading them, I very much think him innocent (even though I don't like people posting too much only jokes etc, but that has often nothing to do with Wolfiness/innocence).
Pitch - his original attack on Bom made me pause about him, but then again, if his later explanation of his "not trying to be just Mr. Agreeable" tactic was genuine, it would make sense. So unless it was a double-trick or a double-double trick or...
Thing is, on previous showing, Bom is a very easy target. (Hope you don't mind my saying that, Bom.) Pitch knows this well, even if you don't– which does make me wonder about him, yes it does. And then, his switching to G55, also a novice player with a bit of a history of attracting suspicion– hmmn.

On the other hand, his cases on both of them were sound enough, by Day One standards– and someone had to get the ball rolling...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Actually, Legate, I had and still have time. I was trying to prod you with my remark and your responses seem unwolvish to me. In response to your question, it's easier to make comments about people who haven't said much.

Fair enough. But now, since you say you have time, couldn't you also use it to say something about those who have said more?

I could basically now vote just as well for Zil - I am not sure, his last post made me somehow unsure about him. In fact, Nerwen with the last one could be also just as well trying to cast suspicion at Pitch, for example, if I were to go for that. I could still vote basically anybody of those, it is all about equally strong suspicion (that means, nothing much in general, but I have to choose somebody).

But I think I could vote Elf-warrior in the end - maybe also it could be used as a "warning vote", if nothing else, to underline my point: if you say that it is easier to make comments about people who haven't said much, yes, maybe, but that actually sounds like ignoring them (if you don't post anything about them, at least a sentence, or a yes/no note!). It is not such a big deal to make comments about people who have said a lot, it is more a problem to read their posts, isn't it? And I certainly hope you are trying to at least read everyone's posts, at least briefly.

Therefore,

++Elf-warrior

[Galadriel55]

You're going after people - you must be a wolf trying to focus the village's attention on somebody else.

But must he?

Might that have something to do with the fact that we're the only ones who've voiced any concrete suspicions?

I think it has everything to do with that. It's just that - especially you and Bom - have been voicing them quite loudly. Which might be the reason I look at you and not anyone else.

Bom, you're probably not aware of this, as we haven't played that much together, but my nickname among the WW crowd is Mr Agreeable, and it wasn't given for nothing. In the past, I've regularly been suspected for being too, well, agreeable, being too noncommittal, not suspecting people in earnest etc.pp. It's happened when I was a wolf, and it's happened when I was innocent, and I've got tired of it, so I'm trying my damnedest to break the habit. Which means if I see somebody doing/saying something that I think could be wolvish, I'm going to point it out and pester them about it until I get a satisfying reaction. If I shrugged it all off as just their respective playing style, we'd never get anywhere, would we?

Anyway, thanks for your answer. For what it's worth, I think you've removed yourself from my list of eligible votees for toDay.

I'll take that for now, but it's a near one. I could equally see this as a smooth way out of a tricky situation... hmmmm.....

(But really, before I disappeared, I was about to post about you being Mr Disagreeable this game, before I was called away from the computer for a couple hours)

++Galwurstiel55

Whatever your role you get a cake of lembas for coming up with the most ridiculous sounding name yet with a "55" in the end. :p

In response to your question, it's easier to make comments about people who haven't said much.

I don't see how that works... It really doesn't make any sense to me...


My list of opinions comming up.

Edit: xed with Nerwen and Legate

[Kitanna]

Our beloved Shasta is dead, and these horrible villains could come after any one of us next. How will we cope?

Cake, lots of cake.

I wouldn't think wolf-on-wolf would be necessary, but who knows? Could be crazy enough to work though, depends on the wolves.

"The question, then, is who, or what, did this?"
Was it you?

I think I know the reference, Game of Thrones? And she better not be acting like Sansa.
Rage against GoT RAGE!
Shield? A shield for what? I promise I have nothing to hide. But it's either joke or say nothing (or make obvious observations about the rules), and joking is more interesting.

Although I suppose my jokes are a bit more than that - I've noticed that those who overreact to them tend to have something to hide. *cough*Pitchwife*cough*
I find the back and forth between Pitch, Boro, and Bom interesting, for reasons I have yet to decide on.
Boro: I know enough by now to know you're always joking on Day 1. But that is itself the point. No matter what, you're going to use your jokes as a shield. So, really, I don't think Pitch was missing the point. I will grant that your jokes and reasons, I did actually laugh at this time.
Pitch: it may have been a joke, or it may have been something to build on later, as long as nobody checked. Without being able to look into your head, how am I supposed to know?
These three posts are what jumped out at me.
In regards to what Boro said about Bom using jokes as a shield I think that can be said for most everyone on Day 1. I thought it was interesting Boro brought up only Bom.
I like the point Pitch made, but not because it was directed at Bom, but I think that's a good thing to keep in mind in general. Any one of these banter/ silly accusations could be easily forgotten and then built on later for good or evil. It's a stretch, but some banter shouldn't be completely discarded.

What I've seen as most interesting is Bom's defense of his jokes over the course of a few of his posts. (15 & 20 mostly). That seemed fishy to me. I shouldn't be too quick to judge though, he's not the only one to keep bringing up the joke posts. Inzil, Boro, and Pitch made more than one mention of it as well.

It seems like too easy a target to jump on. I guess at least it's circulating conversation...

Good point. So what is it with you playing Sansa and the Fool with Boro?
(And OT, doesn't being threatened by wolves make you more like a Lannister?) Gods, I must leave the game over GoT, I swear I will. *puts fingers in ears...er eyes*

@Pitchwife: Mainly because you're so horribly vicious. It seems like you're overly eager to divert suspicion away from yourself. I know I came late and time is short, but you explain why he's so vicious?

Note that I'm neither defending nor accusing any one of these people. At least not yet. I'm just saying how pointless this debate is. (And how hypocritical is that - just adding to it? ) I read this post after making my above observations. I feel much the same way.

Like where, when? Because I 'overreacted' to your alleged jokes and tried to coax some sense out of you?
Look, Bom, if you're innocent, I'd hate to get into a fight with you over your playing style and give the wolves something to latch on to, but you're not making it particularly easy for me not to. It might help to hear what you think of the rest of this caravan. (And don't give me none of that "It's Day 1, too early to say" crap.) I would like an explanation from Bom as well, but this seems like Pitchie got his hackles raised.

That sort of thing is exactly what I meant when I mentioned you being vicious - she tries to stop a seemingly pointless fight and you think it means she's a wolf. (I'm sorry my post is all over the place, train of thought writing tonight I'm afraid.)
In response to this, Pitch seems reasonable enough in what he said to G55. I agreed with G55 that something more interesting could be going on, but Pitch isn't being unreasonable in saying playing the middle ground is as wolfish as anything else. I don't agree with him in this case, but I don't this is an example of him being vicious.

I'd like to see more of Zil, Kath, Greenie and Nerwen
What about me? My poor feelings.

So this whole post has been kind of rambling and half serious. It was a horrible day at work, but I'm doing my best to get my heart in it for the last few hours.
That said here are some thoughts:
I feel out of the Inzil, Boro, Bom, and Pitch thing, Boro speaks the most sense. I don't know how I feel about Inzil. And Bom and Pitch are at each others' throats.
Pitch makes a good point about G55 and how she is just sort of straddling the middle ground, but I don't really like how he got his hackles up when Bom called him vicious. I don't agree with Bom when he says Pitch is vicious, but his reaction was kind of alarming.
Bom is no better with getting his panties all up in a twist. He jokes, he's not the only one, bringing that up initially might have been a waste of time, but watching his reaction and others has made for interesting debate. Nerwen calls him an easy target. I don't know how true that is, but he certainly isn't doing himself any favors by getting so worked up. The more worked up he gets the more noticeable and suspicious he becomes. Wolves and innocents do this and that's why I think he's so dangerous. On the other hand Pitch is helping him stay in the spotlight and that's equally as dangerous.

On another topic Kath's vote reasoning has me worried.
I feel she's a player that shows her mettle better under a bit of pressure. I know she's got the brains. Let's see 'em!
I read this like Kath wants to bandwagon Sally to scare her into revealing something that may or may not be there. That seems downright dastardly to me.

[Nerwen]

In fact, Nerwen with the last one could be also just as well trying to cast suspicion at Pitch, for example, if I were to go for that.
I was pointing out his perhaps opportunistic choice of targets– so yes, I suppose that's "casting suspicion". Is that a problem?

Originally Posted by The Elf-warrior
In response to your question, it's easier to make comments about people who haven't said much.
I don't see how that works... It really doesn't make any sense to me...
Less material = quicker analysis. It's easier, but lazier. And generally less useful, since mostly you're just pointing out what anyone else could see at a glance.

EDIT:X'd with Kit.

[Bom Tombadillo]

Well, while I disagree with the idea Pitchwife's explanation for his behavior so far, it is enough to get me off his back for now (though he's still a candidate for voting until/unless somebody else starts acting suspicious). I'd hate to vote G55 for what seems to me like a genuine peacekeeping effort, and nobody else is really standing out much to me.

[The Elf-warrior]

I've reread the thread and this statement by Inziladun looks to me like a possible wolf to wolf communication "As for as wolvish tactics, I don't think anything could be ruled out. I wouldn't think wolf-on-wolf would be necessary, but who knows?"

I'm inclined to believe Pitchwife's explanation that he was trying to stop being Mr. Agreeable. However, that could be true and he could be a werewolf at the same time. Bom feels innocent to me. He seems to have the right amount of understanding how his statements could be construed as suspicious.

Greenie seems innocent. Besides, she's sick so I'm not voting for her. In regards to Kitanna, I'm inclined to think missing most of the day by accident is a mistake an innocent would make. Later, I'm going to review Boromir and Galadriel55's posts. Stay tuned.

[Inziladun]

New vote, I see.

Kath-->Sally
Pitch-->G55
Legate-->TEW (1)

Kath's vote seems a bit odd, true, but I can posit an innocent reason behind it, as well as the obvious evil throwaway potential.

The way Pitch latched onto G55 as soon as she appeared is a bit jarring. Would an evil Pitch be so obvious, though?

And Legate Voting TEW as a "warning vote". I get his point about TEW, but that seems like a rather extreme "warning".

Meh. I apologize for being useless toDay. If I'm around, I'll do my best to make it up Day 2.

There was the accusation of me "harping' about the guide being partly responsible for our predicament (which I mentioned in only two halfhearted IC posts). Then his interactions with Bom, followed by the sudden switching of targets to G55.

++Pitch

Good night, all.

x/d with TEW

[Kitanna]

I need to sleep. I'm sorry I missed the Day. I wish I had more time to comment and reread.

Honestly I wish I could vote for Bom and Pitch. I feel like they're both trying to push the other into the spotlight. It's not a good deal. The other two most connected with this (Boro and Inzil) have both stepped back, but these two are dangerous in my mind.

Bom made a joke and the reactions have become the thing of debate. He's been overreacting since the start. He's building a case of a vicious Pitch who is just attacking everyone.

Pitch, I have agreed with on some of his points. I don't think he latched onto G55 as soon as she entered, but made a reasonable comment in regards to her dove on the olive branch. However this quote is the most worrying thing I've seen so far: Look, Bom, if you're innocent, I'd hate to get into a fight with you over your playing style and give the wolves something to latch on to, but you're not making it particularly easy for me not to. It might help to hear what you think of the rest of this caravan. (And don't give me none of that "It's Day 1, too early to say" crap.) Pitch spoke reason at times, but this seems way too suspicious. He's pulling an innocent Bom in at the same time as pushing a wolfie Bom back, if that makes sense.

This was a tough choice, but rereading Pitch's reaction to Bom's vicious comment made my mind up.

++ Pitch

Edit: X-POSTED with Inzil Mmmmm....

[Galadriel55]

Laeko and Azura to be left alive toDay.

Nerwen, Legate, Kath, and Kit sound fairly reasonable to me. I don't think I'm voting them.

Sally posted a lot but said little. She's third highest on the posting rate list, but most of her posts were short, chatty, and of almost no meaning. The only notable thing that she says is that she's innocent (right, we all are...). I want to hear something of content before I make any conclusions about her.

Greenie has the pass.

TEW is really... drifting on the edges, poking here and there in the most random spots every once in a while. I've never played with him yet, so I don't know if this is the norm for him, but his behaviour seems odd to me. Not necessarily wolfishly-odd, but just peculiar.

At the moment I don't have any serious suspicions for Boro and Zil.

That leaves me with a choice of Pitch and Bom. I have a hard time believing they can both be wolves, even considering the possibility of a wolf-on-wolf. They both sound ok at some points and suspicious at others. Choose one!....

I'll follow Boro's sagely advice not to break my brains over it. So...

++MR DISAGREEABLE (PITCH)

First of all, because I remember a game when he and Boro (ranger and hunter respectively) were at each others throats for no reason on D1, and ended up revealing way too early for the usual standarts. I don't want to repeat the mistake of hanging on to him with no solid reason for suspicion. Though I'm still gonna be watching him (who knows, he was also fenrissed because "he sounded queer"), I don't want to vote him based on his jokes and his reasons for his jokes and etc etc.

The second reason - the more weighty one - is that I was ticked off at Pitch in the last game. I just feel like voting him out of spite. :p

Edit: xed with TEW, Zil, and Kit. And I thought I'm the first to vote Pitchie...

[Galadriel55]

Kath-->Sally
Pitch-->G55
Legate-->TEW
Zil-->Pitch
Kit-->Pitch (xed) (2)
G55-->Pitch (xed) (2)

What is fate playing with us, poor Werewolf players, to have 3 people x-post the same vote?!

:/ *sigh* *bedtime* See y'all toMorrow, unless you lynch me *glares at villagers* or kill me *glares at wolves*.

[Boromir88]

The way Pitch latched onto G55 as soon as she appeared is a bit jarring. Would an evil Pitch be so obvious, though?

I had the same reaction, well I thought at that time G55 made one of the more suspicious posts. I thought it took a long time to argue something was pointless, but in doing so only drawing more attention to the Bom and Pitch curfluffle and thus making a point of it.

But G55 and Kit did bring up that Pitch (and now Bom) both went to the "I think you're just innocently misunderstanding me" statements. And only after G55's first post saying the whole thing was pointless. Two innocents, calming down seeing it was pointless, two wolves being playful early in the day, or one wolf trying to get attached to an innocent, in case he gets lynched?

I quite enjoyed Kit's lengthy post. Some humorous banter, but good observations on people made.

Edit: crossed with G55

[Nerwen]

Hey! A Pitchwaggon! I mean, I know what I said about him myself, but... this is pretty sudden, isn't it?




++MR DISAGREEABLE (PITCH)

First of all, because I remember a game when he and Boro (ranger and hunter respectively) were at each others throats for no reason on D1, and ended up revealing way too early for the usual standarts. I don't want to repeat the mistake of hanging on to him with no solid reason for suspicion. Though I'm still gonna be watching him (who knows, he was also fenrissed because "he sounded queer"), I don't want to vote him based on his jokes and his reasons for his jokes and etc etc.

I think you must be talking about Bom, not Pitch, here?

EDIT: x'd with Boro.

[satansaloser2005]

Dudes, this is messed up.

I'll be home in about fifteen minutes. Try not to go crazier, okay?

[Boromir88]

I read this like Kath wants to bandwagon Sally to scare her into revealing something that may or may not be there. That seems downright dastardly to me.

This was an observation about Kath's vote for sally, which indeed seemed oddly reasoned by Kath. I usually can never figure out sally until she is under some good suspicion either, but a trumped up vote with the sole reason of hoping to get sally to talk, does raise a warning. I might vote for Kath today, if it didn't feel like such a throw away right now.

Also, I know hyper-busy mode can rush people and not allow them time to be more clear, or say something that looks odd....


What is fate playing with us, poor Werewolf players, to have 3 people x-post the same vote?!

That is a pretty strange occurance. Coincidence? Maybe. But it gets me wandering how Pitch really is suspicious enough to get 3 straight cross-votes? I mean, normally that doesn't happen unless Pitch was that overtly suspicious or people were pretty convinced.

Edit: Crossed with Nerwen and sally.

[Bom Tombadillo]

All right. Sorry Pitch, but you're just the most suspicious one so far.

++Pitchwife

[Nerwen]

This was an observation about Kath's vote for sally, which indeed seemed oddly reasoned by Kath. I usually can never figure out sally until she is under some good suspicion either, but a trumped up vote with the sole reason of hoping to get sally to talk, does raise a warning. I might vote for Kath today, if it didn't feel like such a throw away right now.
I might vote her, simply *because* I don't want a universal bandwaggon – and yeah, her vote was suspect, all right. The only thing I could say about it, really, is that this being *Kath*, she may honestly not realise what you're *supposed* to do on Day One. (Trouble is, looking at Kath tnds to bring Pitch back into it anyway.)

EDIT:X'd with Bom.

[Nerwen]

*clears throat* Ahem. It seems I– wait for it– missed the DL. What a surprise.:o

Looks like the universe is safe, after all...

[satansaloser2005]

As much as I don't care for the unwarranted suspicion, this is hardly the first time Kath has done something like this, so I'll probably give her a pass....at least for toDay.


Won't vote:
Kath
Boro
Dun
Pitch
Greenie
Fresh Meat #1 and #2

Edit: x'd with Nerwen

[satansaloser2005]

*clears throat* Ahem. It seems I– wait for it– missed the DL. What a surprise.:o

Looks like the universe is safe, after all...

Quite incorrect, my pet. DL is in 45 minutes. Lucky for you, eh?

[Nerwen]

Well, what do you know. Time zones are so confusing... :confused:

[Boromir88]

*clears throat* Ahem. It seems I– wait for it– missed the DL. What a surprise.:o

Looks like the universe is safe, after all...

Still another 46 minutes. :p (At least I think? That's what I was planning around).

Although, I can't stay up much longer, already nodding off and I can't think of much more to say.

A Day 1 without last second DL voting though? Maybe the Universe isn't safe.

[Nerwen]

Still another 46 minutes. :p (At least I think? That's what I was planning around).
Yes, it is. That's what I thought to begin with, but then I checked and thought I'd just missed it, and then... etc.

A Day 1 without last second DL voting though? Maybe the Universe isn't safe.
A lot of people haven't voted yet, so we're probably okay.

Though talking of probability– what are the odds of Kath posting, *and* me voting *and* no last-minute flurry, all in the same game? This could get serious, Boro. Warping–the–very–fabric–of–reality serious.:eek:

[The Elf-warrior]

Here's my summary of Boromir88 and Galadriel55's posts with some commentary. Boromir #5 is rather insubstantial, but is noteworthy for his remarks about nature which formed the basis of Bom's suspicion is his joke list. In #16 he talks GoT and makes his first jab at Bom.

In #28, he says Greenie and Kath seem the most suspicious of those who've talked. I personally think Greenie was saying that she was incoherent more than was actually evidenced by her posts. He considers voting for the nontalkers. Although that would be an easy tack for a wolf to take, it's also a reasonable thing for an innocent to do who has little to go on. There's most dialogue with Bom.

In #30, Galadriel55 criticizes the fight between Bom and his opponents. I'm seeing her post as more annoyingly peacenikky than wolvish. In #31 she says she'll keep an eye on Bom, Pitch, Boro, and Zil. She seems to me to be saying that those criticizing Bom are using his jokes as ammunition against him. I'm inclined to say, "So what?"

In #39, Boromir is suspicious of Galadriel55. He says that she had exaggerated the degree of heat of the argument between Bom and Pitch. #43 is about the deadline.

In #50 I don't get what Galadriel55 is trying to say in response to that Bom quote. She admits that she is suspecting people for being loud. She is narrowly accepts Pitchwife's Mr. Agreeable explanation. She says my explanation for not posting about more prolific people makes no sense.

In #53 she lists her opinions. I think her description of me is rather apt. Yes, Galadriel55 I normally am like this. I think she's right about it being unlikely both Bom and Pitch are wolves. She votes for Pitchwife.

In #59 Boromir downgrades his suspicion of Galadriel55. In #62 Boromir discusses Kath's vote for Sally and the x-post Pitchwagon. My conclusion is that both look O.K. to me.

[Boromir88]

Though talking of probability– what are the odds of Kath posting, *and* me voting *and* no last-minute flurry, all in the same game? This could get serious, Boro. Warping–the–very–fabric–of–reality serious.:eek:

Winter is coming. :eek:

[satansaloser2005]

Something about Elf-Warrior's analysis looks off to me. It just seems forced, or like he's trying to say something without saying it. Definitely a mark in my suspicious column. Enough for a lynch vote? I'll have to consider it.

[satansaloser2005]

Winter is coming. :eek:

Watch your mouth, young man.

[Boromir88]

Kath's and Bom's votes stand out as the most suspicious to me.

The 3 cross votes for Pitch were weird, but all Inzil, Kit, and G55 were voting with the thought they would be casting the 1st vote for Pitch.

Bom, made the point to say he'd back off Pitch, but Pitch would still be a possible vote candidate for him. It seems rather convenient and a quick jump back to Pitch, after the 3 cross votes.

sally said Kath's done it before, and doesn't seem effected by it, at least not enough to vote for her. But it will be enough for me.

++Kath

Won't mean anything today, but letting you know I'm interested in hearing your response on voting sally.

[The Elf-warrior]

I'm going with my previously expressed suspicion

++Inziladun

[satansaloser2005]

++Elf-Warrior

[Nerwen]

Okay, then–

++Kath.

Edit:X'd with Sally.

[Nerwen]

Hey, I did it!:D

[satansaloser2005]

HOLY DEADLINE, BATMAN! NERWEN VOTED?!

:Merisu:

[Nerwen]

And there wasn't any real last-minute frenzy, either– so there you go, a veritable triad of improbability. How long can the fabric of the universe hold?:eek:

[satansaloser2005]

And there wasn't any real last-minute frenzy, either– so there you go, a veritable triad of improbability. How long can the fabric of the universe hold?:eek:

I'm trembling in my fuzzy Yoshi pajamas. :eek:



Bedtime for Sally. Nobody should eat me.

[Laeko_Randalis]

My, oh my, but posts go by quickly here.
The quotes don't help. My poor head...

But, umm, look upon my cute pony icon and tell me, could you really suspect someone with a Twilight Sparkle avatar of being a cold-bloodthirsty killer?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Right, DL was about an hour and a half ago. My apologies. Let me just go back and see who's died...

--------------------------------------------------

As the cold sun dropped behind the range at their backs, enough people had decided that Pitchwife was to blame for their predicament, and for the gruesome death of their caravan boss. They tied him up and left him at the foot of one of the steep cliffs, covered in snow, and left him there, still pleading and yelling with them to come back, that he wasn't a bad person, that it wasn't his fault...

Pitchwife's voice was loud enough that it shook the snow free from the cliff above him. Tons of cold white death fell upon him, and he never spoke again.

Pitchwife was an ordo.

It is now Night 1.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Night 1 ends.

As the sun's light rose slowly over Caradhras, lighting up the ground below, the caraveners slowly ventured out of their wagons. Everyone seemed to be accounted for... wait.

Where was The Elf-Warrior?

As one, they turned to look at the wagon that had always been set just a little off from everyone else.

Horrendous clawmarks gouged the door, and blood splattered the threshold.

One or two brave souls ventured a peek inside. There lay their missing comrade, torn to pieces and tied up in his best blanked, hung from the rafters like a macabre pinata.

Day 2 begins.

Dead - The Elf-Warrior (Ordo)

[Nerwen]

Okay... since nobody's around to talk, it seems it's left to me to begin the traditional "Why was he killed?" talk.

So– the face of it, TEW seems a fairly typical Night One trailless kill– he said little about anyone (except for Legate). However, that is from memory, as I haven't yet re-read the thread.

Analysis to follow...

[Nerwen]

The Elf-warrior

#34.
Some random thoughts. The problem with trying to figure out how wolves will behave is that they can adjust their behavior accordingly. They can be at each others throats if we say they'll act chummy with each other, for example. However, we can try to sniff out lycanthropy in people's posts like you all have been doing.

To me, Sally is acting like Sally which doesn't say anything about her guilt or innocence. I'm neutral in regards to her guilt or innocence. Nerwen and Laeko_Randalis are the same way.

I am detecting a slight, slight wolvish vibe in the final paragraph of Legate's first post. I think any advantage of having a smaller field is outweighed by the sheer numerical fact that the smaller the village is, the closer the wolves are to winning.



#47. (Replying to Legate at #44 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=663012&postcount=44).)
Actually, Legate, I had and still have time. I was trying to prod you with my remark and your responses seem unwolvish to me. In response to your question, it's easier to make comments about people who haven't said much.


#54.
I've reread the thread and this statement by Inziladun looks to me like a possible wolf to wolf communication "As for as wolvish tactics, I don't think anything could be ruled out. I wouldn't think wolf-on-wolf would be necessary, but who knows?"

I'm inclined to believe Pitchwife's explanation that he was trying to stop being Mr. Agreeable. However, that could be true and he could be a werewolf at the same time. Bom feels innocent to me. He seems to have the right amount of understanding how his statements could be construed as suspicious.

Greenie seems innocent. Besides, she's sick so I'm not voting for her. In regards to Kitanna, I'm inclined to think missing most of the day by accident is a mistake an innocent would make. Later, I'm going to review Boromir and Galadriel55's posts. Stay tuned.


#71. (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=663044&postcount=71)
Medium-length analysis of Boro and G55. (Why those two in particular? He doesn't say.)
Concludes that "both look okay".


#76.
I'm going with my previously expressed suspicion

++Inziladun


CONCLUSION
TEW was more talkative than I realised, but as numerous players pointed out, he seemed to have very little to say– made a few uncontroversial general statements, and was "neutral" about– well, just about everyone. It is quite possible that this is what got him killed– he may well have looked like a Seer being overly careful not to say anything that might falsely implicate others.

The exceptions, of course, are his statements about Legate (#34) ("...a slight, slight wolvish vibe..."), Pitchwife (#54)("However, that could be true and he could be a werewolf at the same time") and Zil (#54) ("...a possible wolf to wolf communication..."), plus voting him.

Now, really the Legate comment should not have been seen as a "Seer-hint", since TEW backed off from it immediately, describing Legate in his next post as "unwolvish"– something no responsible Seer would say about a dreamed wolf. It is, however, just barely possible that the wolves considered him a Seer who panicked at Legate's aggressive reaction.

Zil is another matter– the fact that he is the *only* person TEW really accused, in tandem with TEW's "nervous gifted" behaviour, really looks pretty bad for him– to the point where I think Zil himself should be next up for analysis.

(Pitchwife, though, is a counter-example– here we have TEW saying a known innocent "could be a werewolf". This *should* have led the pack to take anything else he said with a grain of salt.)

All the above of course assumes the wolves killed TEW as a supposed Seer, but that doesn't have to be the case. It may have been a framing attempt, or they may have taken his caution and jumpiness as a sign he was *a* gifted, and not bothered about which. (I notice he used the sword icon in his first post, which could have been taken as either a Hunter or Ranger clue.)

Finally, it may have been just a random trailless kill– really unless Zil and/or Legate are wolves, TEW points to no-one at all. But in that we have to wonder why certain other people are still alive.

EDIT:typo.

[Nerwen]

Er– hello? Anyone there?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I am here, at least now.

The basic question we are standing in front of now is whether the WWs we have here would act more boldly or try to lay low and try to slide through the small game with minimal losses by leaving no trails and possibly stirring the water elsewhere. I would suspect the latter to be more likely in these circumstances, especially if it was the case that neither of them was a target of any stronger suspicion yesterDay. Since I think nobody was much (except for e.g. Pitch, who is dead), I would not put it past the WWs to have decided toNight's kill by saying "okay, let's make a no-trace kill and try to lay low for the rest of the Day" (with a possible addendum: "let's frame Zil while we are at that".

For this alone, I would strongly urge everyone to post, and I hereby announce that I will be more inclined toDay to vote those who do not participate much.

Of course, once again, this all depends on what kind of Wolves we have - it is possible that we have more bold ones and Zil is one of them and TEW just was a good target, therefore. But I am not really sure. It wouldn't have been a logical move from the WWs. Also, I am not sure if Zil was suspected by anybody else on any larger scale? So unless the WWs really thought TEW was the Seer... hmm, they could have (if Zil is a Wolf)... but the first possibility seems still more probable to me: the WWs don't have much of an idea about the Seer and they just wanted to make a no-trace kill.

Shall be back later with more thoughts, hope to see at least somebody around here.

[Galadriel55]

About yesterDay: so once in a lifetime the sun does rise in the West... :p

Pitch you are...you're not supposed to be innocent.... DANG IT! But you were so damn suspicious!

/frustration out

I am very surprised that they killed TEW. He got a couple votes yesterDay, and with a bit of persuation could have easily been lynched toDay. My conclusion: why should they waste a Nightkill on him when they could have easily got rid of him the next Day? Did they really think he was a gifted? Or, perhaps, just to stirr something up....

But the point remains: if they thought him to be Ranger or Hunter they could have lynched them. Therefore we're left with either Seer or diversion. :confused:

I've gone nowhere with this. It's all been said already. *facepalm*



I'm kinda curious about Nerwen's vote yesterDay, but I doubt that a Nerwolf would be so careless about an almost-throwaway with little explanation (I have to look again, I don't remember how the tally looked when she voted.)


PS - yes, when I voted in my explanation I was referring to Bom&Boro. Sorry for the confusion. I was saying why not Bom and why Pitch.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Incidentally, did I mention that I am becoming mightily suspicious of G55? There has been something late yesterDay after I have left in her behavior, and now this post above just sounds somewhat fake. "I am a Wolf and now I am going to start posting-messing around with questions as to what happened, expressing my puzzlement and casting the hot potato to the people: oh look, what's happening here, it does not make any sense, certainly not to me, especially not to me, precious, not at all - but refraining from actually saying something that would move the discussion, not really suspecting people, only stirring stuff a bit here and there." Something of that sort, it sounds to me.

[Kitanna]

I have precious little time today. I need to go to work in a little over an hour, so for now I'd like to focus on what happened after I voted on Day 1 and what's happened today (though clearly very little).

The second reason - the more weighty one - is that I was ticked off at Pitch in the last game. I just feel like voting him out of spite.
The first three votes for Pitch came in pretty quick succession. I believe she had no idea Zil and I voted for him, just like I had no idea Zil had voted for him when I put mine down. However, Pitch was generating a lot of conversation and suspicion around him. I don't like this reasoning of "just out of spite" because Pitch wasn't just a random player who hadn't had much activity.

Though I'm still gonna be watching him (who knows, he was also fenrissed because "he sounded queer"), I don't want to vote him based on his jokes and his reasons for his jokes and etc etc.
She seems to have gotten confused between Pitch and Bom here. Given how much Bom's jokes were discussed that's just unbelievable to me. And then there's the aforementioned reason she gave which as far as I can tell is directed at Pitch and not a Bom reason by mistake.

Moving on, I feel like Boro speaks a lot of sense in his next posts. He makes some observations regarding Kath's vote, the way Pitch and Bom both backed down after G55's "this is pointless" post, and the Pitch bandwagon (coincidence or nefarious activity?). He's certainly the most sensible person in my opinion, which means he can't be trusted. :p

Bom votes for Pitch and that hardly comes as a surprise. I was wrong about Pitch and now I wonder how wrong I've been about Bom. I easily could have voted for him as well, now I'm going to have to examine him closer than I had the chance to before.

Winter is coming.
*slap*

Sally voted for TeW because Something about Elf-Warrior's analysis looks off to me. It just seems forced, or like he's trying to say something without saying it. Definitely a mark in my suspicious column. Enough for a lynch vote? I'll have to consider it.
I would like more details on this suspicion.

Boro votes for Kath, no surprise there. Nerwen does too. Nerwen gives the reason that she doesn't a universal bandwagon and Kath's vote was suspect. But in the same breath she states Kath may just not know what to do, thus defending her. When Nerwen made her reasoning post Boro was already commenting that he might vote for Kath even if it was a throwaway. Then Nerwen agrees? I don't know about that. Stop one bandwagon and attempt to start another?

TODAY
I'm glad Nerwen did an analysis of E-W because I wouldn't have had time to.

The exceptions, of course, are his statements about Legate (#34) ("...a slight, slight wolvish vibe..."), Pitchwife (#54)("However, that could be true and he could be a werewolf at the same time") and Zil (#54) ("...a possible wolf to wolf communication..."), plus voting him.
I feel the people listed here (Pitch excluded) deserve some looking over. Nerwen may have a point here.

PS - yes, when I voted in my explanation I was referring to Bom&Boro. Sorry for the confusion. I was saying why not Bom and why Pitch. Mmmm

So based on yesterday's votes I think Kath, G55, and Nerwen are looking the worst now.

I stated my reasons regarding Kath in my lengthy post yesterday. Her "let's get a cornered sally to fight" reasoning was just too suspicious for me.

G55 spent a long time talking about how pointless the debate over jokes were, then she turns around a votes for one of the main players. She confuses Bom and Pitch and then makes a "I'm sorry, it was a mistake" post this morning. I don't like that either. Her actual reason for voting for Pitch (out of spite) was no better. Him and Bom had both garnered a lot of attention. I would have been surprised if neither one of them was voted for and then she makes that comment? Not very nice at all, precious.

And Nerwen. Her vote for Kath wasn't a surprise because she had said earlier it might be a possibility. But I don't like the placement of her reasoning. She says she wants to stop a universal bandwagon and because Kath's vote is suspect after Boro says he's probably voting for Kath. As I said earlier, one bandwagon for another? I don't think Kath was ever really in danger of being lynched yesterday, but Nerwen's reasoning are too convenient for my liking.

X-Post with Legate

[Kitanna]

I'm going to work and I'll be back in about 11 hours. When I do return I won't have more than an hour to comment, so my vote will be early tonight.

[Nerwen]

Of course, once again, this all depends on what kind of Wolves we have - it is possible that we have more bold ones and Zil is one of them and TEW just was a good target, therefore. But I am not really sure. It wouldn't have been a logical move from the WWs. Also, I am not sure if Zil was suspected by anybody else on any larger scale? So unless the WWs really thought TEW was the Seer... hmm, they could have (if Zil is a Wolf)... but the first possibility seems still more probable to me: the WWs don't have much of an idea about the Seer and they just wanted to make a no-trace kill.
My point remains, though: why TEW instead of someone else? There's quite a number of people in this village who would have been higher-up on *my* "to kill" list, just on principle. (I don't want to knock TEW, by the way– but you know what I mean.)

I am very surprised that they killed TEW. He got a couple votes yesterDay, and with a bit of persuation could have easily been lynched toDay. My conclusion: why should they waste a Nightkill on him when they could have easily got rid of him the next Day? Did they really think he was a gifted? Or, perhaps, just to stirr something up....

But the point remains: if they thought him to be Ranger or Hunter they could have lynched them. Therefore we're left with either Seer or diversion. :confused:
Not really– that kind of thing can backfire pretty badly. Gifteds do have a nasty habit of revealing on the way to the gallows, after all.


Incidentally, did I mention that I am becoming mightily suspicious of G55? There has been something late yesterDay after I have left in her behavior, and now this post above just sounds somewhat fake. "I am a Wolf and now I am going to start posting-messing around with questions as to what happened, expressing my puzzlement and casting the hot potato to the people: oh look, what's happening here, it does not make any sense, certainly not to me, especially not to me, precious, not at all - but refraining from actually saying something that would move the discussion, not really suspecting people, only stirring stuff a bit here and there." Something of that sort, it sounds to me.
It could be. That bit I quoted above has something of that glimpse-of-the-Nightly-discussion feel.

And Nerwen. Her vote for Kath wasn't a surprise because she had said earlier it might be a possibility. But I don't like the placement of her reasoning. She says she wants to stop a universal bandwagon and because Kath's vote is suspect after Boro says he's probably voting for Kath. As I said earlier, one bandwagon for another? I don't think Kath was ever really in danger of being lynched yesterday, but Nerwen's reasoning are too convenient for my liking.
I meant I didn't want there to be a single bandwaggon that just about everyone voted in– that leaves little or nothing to analyse the next Day.

[A Little Green]

I'm here! First of all, sorry about yesterDay. I think this was the first time I ever purposefully abstained from voting; I just felt that it would have been unfair to everybody (and especially the one I voted) because I couldn't think even half straight. I hope to fix some of that toDay! I'm still busy though, but at least not about to faint. :rolleyes:

My sweet prince, I've simply missed you. Don't you trust me?

I remember the Days when we were happy and together, and the wolves couldn't threaten us. They were good Days, and I wish we could return to them. That's all.

And yes, don't vote me. Innocent!Sally is innocent, and that would be a bad move.I should know well enough by now not to suspect Sally based on early Day 1 joking, but I don't like this; I think I said something along the same lines yesterDay - the underlining of her own innocence without any real cause makes me uneasy. On the other hand, her reaction to Kath's vote looked remarkably calm for an evil Sally. So yeah, I'm unsure.

Thing is, on previous showing, Bom is a very easy target. (Hope you don't mind my saying that, Bom.) Pitch knows this well, even if you don't– which does make me wonder about him, yes it does. And then, his switching to G55, also a novice player with a bit of a history of attracting suspicion– hmmn.I usually can't read Nerwen at all so I might be off with this one, but this post looks opportunistic. In pointing out Pitch's suspicious behaviour but leaving the end with an open hmmn, she urges others to suspect Pitch without really involving herself. And indeed, she washes her hands as soon as Pitch gets votes.
Hey! A Pitchwaggon! I mean, I know what I said about him myself, but... this is pretty sudden, isn't it?
I might vote her, simply *because* I don't want a universal bandwaggon – and yeah, her vote was suspect, all right. The only thing I could say about it, really, is that this being *Kath*, she may honestly not realise what you're *supposed* to do on Day One. (Trouble is, looking at Kath tnds to bring Pitch back into it anyway.)Also, I'm not overly fond of voting to avoid a bandwaggon - bandwaggons are dangerous, true, but if you suspect someone, you want them bandwaggoned since that's pretty much the only way to get them lynched.

I'm kinda curious about Nerwen's vote yesterDay, but I doubt that a Nerwolf would be so careless about an almost-throwaway with little explanation (I have to look again, I don't remember how the tally looked when she voted.)If no fellows were in danger, a wolf would not care too much about the outcome (unless one of the candidates was a seer-suspect or some such). All in all, I'm somewhat suspicious of Nerwen - but then again, her first toDay looked both genuine and sensible to me, especially regarding Zil who I have a vague bad feeling about anyway. I'd take a proper look at him if I had the time, but I'm afraid I don't.


EDIT: x-ed with Nerwen

[satansaloser2005]

Gods, I must leave the game over GoT, I swear I will. *puts fingers in ears...er eyes*

It's nice to know at least one person who's on my side. :eek:


In other news, I woke up ridiculously sick this morning. I didn't sleep well the Night before last, so that didn't help. Anyway, it's doubtful I'll be around much toDay, but I'll try. Hopefully I'll feel better in a few hours (for instance, after killing a werewolf).



Re: Pitch: I told thee so!
Re: Elf-Warrior: What the heck, wolves? I really wanted to lynch him! :(


Oh, and whoever posts a snazzy vote count from yesterDay gets free cupcake snuggles.



Sally out.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nerwen
I might vote her, simply *because* I don't want a universal bandwaggon – and yeah, her vote was suspect, all right. The only thing I could say about it, really, is that this being *Kath*, she may honestly not realise what you're *supposed* to do on Day One. (Trouble is, looking at Kath tnds to bring Pitch back into it anyway.)
Also, I'm not overly fond of voting to avoid a bandwaggon - bandwaggons are dangerous, true, but if you suspect someone, you want them bandwaggoned since that's pretty much the only way to get them lynched.

If you *strongly* suspect someone, yes. As it was, I didn't, and that sudden leap on him rather alarmed me.

[A Little Green]

A quick list, based more on feeling than fact since I don't have time to reread as much as I'd wish.

Legate - Feels fine this far.
Sally - Undecided about her. Like I said, she underlines her own innocence in a suspicious way, but reacted to Kath's vote in a relatively innocent way.
Inzil - Bad feeling. Couldn't pinpoint it right now, I'm sure I'd find a reason for the feeling if I reread his posts.
Kath - Good vibes.
Kitanna - Really sharp, not sure about her alignment though!
Bom - Undecided. Initial reaction was "suspicious!", after which I remembered I always think that whatever his role. So a questionmark for now.
Nerwen - Somewhat suspicious because, as stated before, she urged the Pitchwaggon on but backed off when it actually began.
G55 - Good and bad vibes at the same time! Another I'd love to reread.
Boro - Nothing alarming this far.
Azura - Still not around, right?
Laeko_Randalis - Couldn't say.


EDIT: x-ed with Nerwen

[A Little Green]

If you *strongly* suspect someone, yes. As it was, I didn't, and that sudden leap on him rather alarmed me.Ah, I think I see where you're coming from now. Then again, it looked like you still suspected him more than Kath, which made me wonder why vote her instead of him.

[A Little Green]

That said, I've got to dash. I'll be back later.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

My point remains, though: why TEW instead of someone else? There's quite a number of people in this village who would have been higher-up on *my* "to kill" list, just on principle. (I don't want to knock TEW, by the way– but you know what I mean.)
Like who? Killing newbies is unsporty. That is at least minus two in any case. Also, in any case, substract three Wolves who are not going to kill each other, of course. If the newbies are both innocent, the number of people you can kill is already thinning very mightily with this. There may be reasons for some people to rather keep them around: for instance, if Zil is innocent, he could be made a suspect, maybe it isn't good to kill him. Similarly maybe with me? And so on and so on. I would however mightily like to hear who would be high on *your* "to kill" list, since you have already mentioned that.

It could be. That bit I quoted above has something of that glimpse-of-the-Nightly-discussion feel.That's what I thought.

EDIT: x-ed with three little psychopatic frogs.

[Inziladun]

First off, sorry about that, Pitch. He was the only one I really had anything on, even though, as I said, I had some doubts about his lupinity. The two votes for him coming so hot on the heels of mine was rather freaky.

Not much time for much of toDay, sadly. I'll get on when I can, though.

It may have been a framing attempt, or they may have taken his caution and jumpiness as a sign he was *a* gifted, and not bothered about which. (I notice he used the sword icon in his first post, which could have been taken as either a Hunter or Ranger clue.)

I think this more likely than a desire for a trailless kill, as there would seem to have been more choices who left a lot less to be analyzed than TEW.

[Nerwen]

Like who? Killing newbies is unsporty. That is at least minus two in any case. Also, in any case, substract three Wolves who are not going to kill each other, of course.
Exactly.

If the newbies are both innocent, the number of people you can kill is already thinning very mightily with this. There may be reasons for some people to rather keep them around: for instance, if Zil is innocent, he could be made a suspect, maybe it isn't good to kill him. Similarly maybe with me? And so on and so on. I would however mightily like to hear who would be high on *your* "to kill" list, since you have already mentioned that.
Well you, for a start. And then there's Boro. And Sally, Greenie, Kit, Kath... all people I'd have chosen to knock off first.

EDIT:X'd with Zil.

[satansaloser2005]

And Sally, Greenie, Kit, Kath... all people I'd have chosen to knock off first.

....I'm flattered.

[Boromir88]

Like who? Killing newbies is unsporty. That is at least minus two in any case. Also, in any case, substract three Wolves who are not going to kill each other, of course. If the newbies are both innocent, the number of people you can kill is already thinning very mightily with this. There may be reasons for some people to rather keep them around: for instance, if Zil is innocent, he could be made a suspect, maybe it isn't good to kill him. Similarly maybe with me? And so on and so on. I would however mightily like to hear who would be high on *your* "to kill" list, since you have already mentioned that.


That is rhetorical? Or are you totally serious about Nerwen's kill list?

TEW wouldn't make sense as a trailless kill. Even though he didn't give much a way, the two first time players could have been trailless, Greenie, Kath, sally too. So, I think Nerwen's point is if TEW was made as a trailless the fact that it was TEW says something. And not one of the others.

Either the wolf pack is a group that likes to lay low, but then again why not kill you, or Nerwen or me? That would probably leave a trail, but it's rather easy to manipulate the trail once the person's killed.

Or TEW said/did something that tipped off he was a possible gifted, thus making him a more attractive target than the other no-trail kills. I guess what I'm saying is why can't it be both? TEW really doesn't leave a trail and was killed to try to set up you a/o Inzil. But the fact is, as little as the trail was, TEW left one, and whether he turned out gifted or not, there's got to be a reason TEW was a better no-trail target than others.

I guess what I'm trying to get to is, a no-trail kill/frame attempt is not going to be the only reason, because if they aren't concentrating on killing gifteds, then they're very bold. I'm going to look at it as TEW was killed because he was thought a gifted, and the trailless business is just an indirect outcome.

I need to go ice my face now, after Kit's slap. :p

[satansaloser2005]

In a game this small, the wolves can afford to be bold. They only need three Days to do this, and then it'll be end game. Still, you're right. So, my sweet prince, why was EW killed rather than me or Kit or someone else? Theorize! Hypothesize! Lobotomize! (Well, maybe not the last one.)

Cupcake demands an explanation for this Night kill.

[Boromir88]

In a game this small, the wolves can afford to be bold. They only need three Days to do this, and then it'll be end game. Still, you're right. So, my sweet prince, why was EW killed rather than me or Kit or someone else? Theorize! Hypothesize! Lobotomize! (Well, maybe not the last one.)

Cupcake demands an explanation for this Night kill.

"?"

And I would have more of a clue than you? I'm going on the easiest assumption, something TEW said set him above the other no-trail options. Either, he was believe gifted (which would point to Legate a/o Inzil) or the other people I would put into TEW's group based on Day 1, (Greenie, Kath, sally, Laeko, and Azura) contain a few wolves. I have no special ability to know if it's the right assumption, but it's the one that makes the most sense to me. Or at least starts giving me ideas on certain people, which I assure you, is coming.

[satansaloser2005]

Well....

1. You're actually around.
2. I trust your judgement.
3. You said that XYZ wasn't a very valid explanation, but hadn't given any other options.
4. I'm bored.

Also, how do I fit into the same category as the two slabs of freshly-cut meat? Neither of them even voted. A no-trace kill by definition leaves no trace. Elf, Kath, and I left a trace, and thus are not in the same MLT as the newbies. Just sayin'.

[Boromir88]

Day 1


I am detecting a slight, slight wolvish vibe in the final paragraph of Legate's first post. I think any advantage of having a smaller field is outweighed by the sheer numerical fact that the smaller the village is, the closer the wolves are to winning.

I didn't understand TEW's point here, or at least I could not sense any of the slight wolvish vibes from Legate's first post. Legate bantered about the guide then tried prompting a question about wolf strategy in a low-number village. It looked rather standard Legate, which I imagine for werewolving he at least brings a brief case as he's always ready to get to business.

So, I at least know whom I am not going to vote. Also, upholding the ancient tradition, I won't vote for either of the newbies.

This was his list post where he didn't seem to have any strong suspects at the time. But it looks good in staying consistent with his trying to "lynch wisely." I'm sure people disagree with the strategy, but part of the battle on getting through Day 1 is figuring out who not to lynch. Eventually, got to get wolves, but the longer the gifteds can keep hidden, the better. Can't win or lose on Day 1, but it can be crippling if the seer is ousted or lynched.

In sum, figuring out who you don't want to lynch is good enough for Day 1, but eventually got to start getting serious suspects to send werewolves to the gibbets.

But I think I could vote Elf-warrior in the end - maybe also it could be used as a "warning vote", if nothing else, to underline my point: if you say that it is easier to make comments about people who haven't said much, yes, maybe, but that actually sounds like ignoring them (if you don't post anything about them, at least a sentence, or a yes/no note!). It is not such a big deal to make comments about people who have said a lot, it is more a problem to read their posts, isn't it? And I certainly hope you are trying to at least read everyone's posts, at least briefly.

Therefore,

++Elf-warrior


I agree with Inzil yesterday, that if this was a "warning" to Elf-warrior, a vote is a pretty strong one. Even with it being Day 1. And honestly, Legate, I have no clue what you were warning TEW about. Was it, generally, just, if you have the time, shape up? Or care to explain what you meant again?

Day 2

Don't agree with him that TEW was a no-trace kill, but his activity today and starting to stir around suspicions looks innocent enough.

I had thought his first post today looked like an attempt to steer us to believe TEW was killed as a no-trace, and possibly to frame him. Although, he only mentions it could frame Inzil, and not himself. I certainly can't see a wolf-Legate being bothered by "slight slight wolvish feelings" from TEW.

So, if I go with the wolves thought TEW was the seer, then Legate being a wolf doesn't really make sense. Why challenge him with a vote and risk the attention, or chance the Ranger catches on too? But, if the wolves thought TEW was the Ranger or Hunter, I wouldn't put it past Legate being a wolf trying to get some sign out of TEW. Although, for that to make sense, then TEW would have to of given Rangery or Huntery vibes.

Edit: crossed with sally.

Also, how do I fit into the same category as the two slabs of freshly-cut meat? Neither of them even voted. A no-trace kill by definition leaves no trace. Elf, Kath, and I left a trace, and thus are not in the same MLT as the newbies. Just sayin'.

Fairy nuff. I meant, like Greenie, Kath, and TEW your posting doesn't give much away. Though you are right, you would leave a trace, as TEW did. The trace though would be hard to follow correctly, hence similar to TEW, even if technically you're right.

[satansaloser2005]

As long as we agree that I'm right. :Merisu:

I need to rush through some work so I can get ahead and then dink around later. I shall return.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well you, for a start. And then there's Boro. And Sally, Greenie, Kit, Kath... all people I'd have chosen to knock off first.
Fair enough, maybe it would've been better if you'd have also said why, but whatever, let's leave it. It was just for the sake of seeing what you answer, one answer is enough.

That is rhetorical? Or are you totally serious about Nerwen's kill list?
I don't know what you imagine under "totally serious", but yes, it was a serious question: I wanted an answer. Why not? Since Nerwen already mentioned it, I thought it was a good idea to ask her. First, it would have provided better background for her theory (I wanted to know who did she mean might be, in her opinion, on the same level with TEW and who not), second, obviously, because if she was a Wolf, she could have made some slip, or answered truthfully or untruthfully but something could be perhaps glimpsed from that... well, you never know.

TEW wouldn't make sense as a trailless kill. Even though he didn't give much a way, the two first time players could have been trailless, Greenie, Kath, sally too. So, I think Nerwen's point is if TEW was made as a trailless the fact that it was TEW says something. And not one of the others.

Either the wolf pack is a group that likes to lay low, but then again why not kill you, or Nerwen or me? That would probably leave a trail, but it's rather easy to manipulate the trail once the person's killed.
I understand what you mean if you mean what Nerwen says, I get it now. But as to what you just said here about manipulating the trail: Not really and not necessarily always. You see dead TEW, how can we know the point was not to try to confuse us with little or no trail, and leaving us to ponder e.g. those whom TEW was talking about? (Or was not talking about? Or...)

You are acting rather, hmm, simple-mindedly, I would say, as if you were not a seasoned player who should know how WW Night-talks often go: very often, the WWs don't really have much of a good target (unless they think that XY is "definitely" a Gifted and stuff like that), especially on early Nights, so it ends up like "Hey Joe, we are supposed to send the kill in an hour, so out of those remaining people we have, whom do we choose?" "I think let's kill TEW, he has a fair enough chance of being a Gifted and at the same time if it's not, it would be a no trace kill in any case, and on top of that it can point to whomever..." but at the same time, they almost said "let's lynch Juan Domingo Perez", since he was almost as good target as TEW. What I mean is: It is not usually that clear even for the WWs, like: "I think TEW is the Seer, the chance of him being one is 89%, whereas the next person in a row is, in my opinion, only 40% likely to be one!"

So:
Or TEW said/did something that tipped off he was a possible gifted, thus making him a more attractive target than the other no-trail kills. I guess what I'm saying is why can't it be both? TEW really doesn't leave a trail and was killed to try to set up you a/o Inzil. But the fact is, as little as the trail was, TEW left one, and whether he turned out gifted or not, there's got to be a reason TEW was a better no-trail target than others.

Yes, that is a part of it, but only one part. If I were to summarize what I think the kill was for, I would say the main point was no-trace. "Let us lay low. There are few players. If we stay low for a couple of days, we can win without any losses."

And what does it help us anyway, to know whether he was killed because the WWs thought him possibly more Gifted than, for example, me or Juan Domingo Perez over there?

I am not saying the WWs are not looking for Gifteds, I am sure they are, but they probably don't know anything very specific about them (otherwise, they'd already be dead).

And anyway, let me say once again, in my opinion, at this point this debate does not have much of a sense for the village. The knowledge (or, in fact, theory) that the WWs thought TEW 1% more Gifted than the rest of us does not really help the village in anything. If there was somebody shouting "I'm the Seer, I'm the Seer" all day and then next night the WWs won't attack him, now that would have been suspicious. But if we have only some vague notions, it is not of any help.

Sorry for probably writing it in a rather confusing way. But I think I have repeated myself several times, so the few main points should be apparent from there. Anyway, I think we should move on from "why was TEW killed", since I think we have revealed as much as we could, to "whom are we going to lynch".

EDIT: x-ed with Boro and Sally

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

In sum, figuring out who you don't want to lynch is good enough for Day 1, but eventually got to start getting serious suspects to send werewolves to the gibbets.
That wasn't my program, it was the summary of the post: looking at the list I just wrote and evaluating what I have learned. Looking at it, I realised I don't have any people screaming guilty at that point, but at least I knew who I did not want to vote, and then went on from there in my future thoughts up to the final decision several posts later.


I agree with Inzil yesterday, that if this was a "warning" to Elf-warrior, a vote is a pretty strong one. Even with it being Day 1. And honestly, Legate, I have no clue what you were warning TEW about. Was it, generally, just, if you have the time, shape up? Or care to explain what you meant again?
The warning was a "bonus". It was not the sole reason, of course, that would be silly - if you read what I was saying, you will see it - in fact, it was not a reason at all. What I said was: TEW is possibly the person about whom there is something I find unsettling, and that is the fact that he posts about random people and completely omits the "big" events. I don't have anything even as "good" about the others, so I am going to vote him. Even in case it does not lynch him, may it at least serve as a warning. Let this vote be a warning to you, TEW! Post something sensible, or I shall lynch you on basis of this! Something like that. It is the equivalent of the typical "lynch the quiet ones" thing. If you are innocent, you should post and not omit saying your opinions on important stuff. You are harming the village if you don't. If you are not innocent, then you fully deserved the vote.

[Boromir88]

I am not saying the WWs are not looking for Gifteds, I am sure they are, but they probably don't know anything very specific about them (otherwise, they'd already be dead).

And anyway, let me say once again, in my opinion, at this point this debate does not have much of a sense for the village. The knowledge (or, in fact, theory) that the WWs thought TEW 1% more Gifted than the rest of us does not really help the village in anything. If there was somebody shouting "I'm the Seer, I'm the Seer" all day and then next night the WWs won't attack him, now that would have been suspicious. But if we have only some vague notions, it is not of any help.


Well, actually, it is a help in my head. Whatever the chances are the wolves thought TEW was a gifted, it would have been based on something he said. It makes a pretty big difference over he was killed for no-trace. Because if they thought he was, then from the wolves perspective he was saying something that was probably true about one of them. Could be in his vote for Inzil, if Inzil's a wolf, or his slightly wolvish vibe he got from you. But I can't see either you or Inzil being bothered much, by vague and slight suspicions if you were wolves.

The hindsight that he was an ordo, doesn't change the fact that if the wolves thought there was a chance he was gifted, he said something to make them think it. And thus there is probably more truth that can be found in what he said about people, than what you seem to want to make it.

Having said that, I admit to be focusing too much on TEW so far today, and there is the voting that also needs to be looked at more.

That wasn't my program, it was the summary of the post: looking at the list I just wrote and evaluating what I have learned. Looking at it, I realised I don't have any people screaming guilty at that point, but at least I knew who I did not want to vote, and then went on from there in my future thoughts up to the final decision several posts later.
That's essentially what I was trying to say. That you were being consistent in wanting to "lynch wisely," and that it is understandable for Day 1. In so far, as it's how I approach Day 1's too.

[satansaloser2005]

Incidentally, we have at least two players in danger of modfire toDay. This does not bode well. We need everyone to participate and vote, or the wolves will win without a fight.

That means you, new kids. You vote or you die. That is all.

*stern!Sally is stern*

I'm also proposing the radically stupid idea of, if the modfire candidates don't show up by Dusk, just killing one of them. It would be better to waste a lynch on an absent innocent than to have three die in one Day. I'm just putting this up for consideration; I'm hoping it won't be necessary.

[Kitanna]

*sneaking on for three minutes before her lunch ends*

I'm also proposing the radically stupid idea of, if the modfire candidates don't show up by Dusk, just killing one of them. It would be better to waste a lynch on an absent innocent than to have three die in one Day. I'm just putting this up for consideration; I'm hoping it won't be necessary.
We run a lot of risk doing this. We may save ourselves too many innocent loses, but we also buy the wolves time as well. I'd rather not waste my vote on people who are in danger of modfire. I want to use my vote on someone I actually suspect. And if everyone says "well they're dead anyway" and votes like that we have no trail to follow on Day 3 where voting is concerned. It's easier to hide behind comments, but hiding behind votes is oh so much harder.

Had more to say, but I gotta run again. I just had to comment on this idea now though.

[satansaloser2005]

As Boro would say, fairy nuff. It's not a plan I'd want to put into action, but I'd probably try it if I didn't like where the lynch was headed (e.g. someone I trusted was alone on the block).

Besides, I see it benefiting us innocents more than the villains, at least from a numbers standpoint. From an evidence perspective, however, it's fairly useless. :/

[Inziladun]

Anyway, I think we should move on from "why was TEW killed", since I think we have revealed as much as we could, to "whom are we going to lynch".

I concur. The Pitch votes (and yes, that includes mine) should naturally be our focus, I think.

Why did I vote for him? I said so here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=663026&postcount=55) and here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=663104&postcount=102).

Kitanna's and G55;s x/d with mine. Over an hour later, Bom came in with his, and sealed Pitch's fate.

G55 has said hers was "out of spite". Since it led to his lynch, that would seem an especially questionable reason.

Kit's was better reasoned.

Bom's, by virtue of the timing, and the somewhat intense interactions between him and Pitch, might look the worst.

We run a lot of risk doing this. We may save ourselves too many innocent loses, but we also buy the wolves time as well. I'd rather not waste my vote on people who are in danger of modfire. I want to use my vote on someone I actually suspect. And if everyone says "well they're dead anyway" and votes like that we have no trail to follow on Day 3 where voting is concerned. It's easier to hide behind comments, but hiding behind votes is oh so much harder.

Sensible!Kit is sensible, at least on this score. Lynching a likely modfire is not something I could get behind.

[Boromir88]

As Boro would say, fairy nuff. It's not a plan I'd want to put into action, but I'd probably try it if I didn't like where the lynch was headed (e.g. someone I trusted was alone on the block).

Besides, I see it benefiting us innocents more than the villains, at least from a numbers standpoint. From an evidence perspective, however, it's fairly useless. :/

Greenie always gets annoyed if I bring this up with mod-fires. If it's just one person who may be modfired we vote to lynch. It extends the game by 1 phase. (Gives us another night, in which with the hunter/ranger still presumably alive would hopefully extend it more). But with 2 modfires, I don't think we gain the extra phase.

Worst case scenario, they're both innocent, and we lynch one of the mod-fires. That leaves 7 innocents, 3 wolves. And 2 days to get a wolf. And we essentially give up trying to lynch a wolf today.

Or, we lose the 2 mod-fires, they're both innocent, and we lynch another innocent. 6 innocents, 3 wolves. Still get 2 days to get a wolf. But we aren't giving up the lynch chance for a wolf.

Sorry, sally, with 2 mod-fires, there's no gain to be made by voting to lynch one of them. Better to use the chance today voting someone else and hope one of the 3 is a wolf.

Edit: crossed with Inzil

[satansaloser2005]

What do you mean, gain an extra phase? Modfires lose us phases (assuming they're innocent, that is).

I'm really fine either way, but you're being pretty cavalier with our numbers.

Speaking of Greenie, when is she expecting to return?

[Boromir88]

Yesterday's votes:

Kath ---> sally
Pitch ---> G55
Legate ---> TEW
Inzil ---> Pitch
Kitanna ---> Pitch
G55 ---> Pitch
Bom ---> Pitch (4)
Boro ---> Kath
TEW ---> Inzil
sally ---> TEW (2)
Nerwen ---> Kath (2)

Can't really glean much from the late votes. Out of all of them, I still think Kath's reasoning looks the most suspicious, but that's all I've got on her right now. Not going to bang on about it, but I hope she can get back today so I can hear an explanation on it.

Of the Pitch voters, Bom's reasons are the most suspicious. His vote for Pitch came after a post where he sort of backs off:
Well, while I disagree with the idea Pitchwife's explanation for his behavior so far, it is enough to get me off his back for now (though he's still a candidate for voting until/unless somebody else starts acting suspicious). I'd hate to vote G55 for what seems to me like a genuine peacekeeping effort, and nobody else is really standing out much to me.
He sort of backs off, but doesn't, by leaving the door open to vote Pitch if nothing else happens.

The 3 who cross-voted (Inzil, Kitanna, G55) look good enough all for different reasons. Inzil thinks Pitch jumped too quickly at Bom, then switched too quickly on G55.

Kitanna thinks Pitch tried to pull in an innocent-Bom, while pushing back a wolf-Bom. Bom looks like he tried doing the same thing in the post #53 quoted above.

G55 did a process of elimination and was left with either Pitch or Bom.

Bom's, by virtue of the timing, and the somewhat intense interactions between him and Pitch, might look the worst.

I don't think the timing matters, unless he was hoping to make sure there wouldn't be enough remaining votes to have a bandwagon against him? That is to say, just because you, Kit, and G55 all cross-voted, doesn't make the timing of your votes any better or worse than Bom's. 3-4 votes is really all it takes to lynch on Day 1.

Even if the 3 were cross-votes, all of you essentially put Pitch up to be lynched. Or at least insure that if he wasn't there would have to be another bandwagon from the later voters to save him. Bom's vote coming later did pretty much seal it, but the bandwagon as already there and to save Pitch would have meant consensus from me, Bom, TEW, sallyand Nerwen.

The only one I would have felt comfortable pushing harder for would have been Kath. But sally didn't seem bothered by Kath's vote and wasn't going to vote for her. And it was feeling like a throwaway even before Bom's vote.

[Boromir88]

What do you mean, gain an extra phase? Modfires lose us phases (assuming they're innocent, that is).

I'm really fine either way, but you're being pretty cavalier with our numbers.


I'm not going into that argument again.

I was assuming worst case scenario, to explain that either if we chose to lynch one of the mod-fireds, or lose 3 people today, it doesn't make a difference in the amount of days left.

Now if one of the mod-fireds or the person who's lynched today turns out to be a wolf, then this whole scenario is moot anyway.

I have no idea what you mean that I'm being cavalier with the numbers, just using them to say I agree with Kit.

[Kath]

Hate, hate, HATE tabs! Just lost my post. Re-writing.

Is modfire definitely happening? Because if not the debate isn't much use. Can the mod-God tell us? Or have I missed the question/response.

About my vote for sally yesterDay:

sally #1
Boro, my prince, hold me. Our beloved Shasta is dead, and these horrible villains could come after any one of us next. How will we cope?

Simple. We will run away, our lives again like the fairy tale of old, and we shall rid ourselves of this predicament and be free to be together forever. What say you, my love?

sally #2
Also, why do I feel like I'm trapped in Tolkien's rendition of Oregon Trail?

sally #3
Goddess? Oh, goodness! What all did they do to Shasta?

sally #4
Will the three live werewolves please stand up?

I regret nothing.

So where are the rest of you people? Even Nerwen showed up already.

sally #5
My sweet prince, I've simply missed you. Don't you trust me?

I remember the Days when we were happy and together, and the wolves couldn't threaten us. They were good Days, and I wish we could return to them. That's all.

And yes, don't vote me. Innocent!Sally is innocent, and that would be a bad move.

So....where are Kath and Greenie? Shouldn't the lovely ladies be around by now?

sally #6
There are less people to keep track of, so it's easier to keep track of them, and thus harder to hide sketchy interactions.

Yes? <-- First time we get anything vaguely useful, 6 posts it. And it's not an idea of her own it's simply a retelling of Greenie's ramblings. Helpful interpretation but not helpful for interpretation.

At this point I had to vote. I don't believe on Day 1 that you're going to catch a wolf by careful, considered analysis. If you get one it's sheer dumb luck or it's because the wolf in question has done something monumentally silly to get caught. I was voting with 36 posts behind me - no one had accidentally (or purposefully!) revealed themselves. I want sally around. She's a good player. But she's not much help with the above level of posting. I hoped a vote-kick might push her into more posting.

sally #8 (7 was a time warning)
As much as I don't care for the unwarranted suspicion, this is hardly the first time Kath has done something like this, so I'll probably give her a pass....at least for toDay.

Won't vote:
Kath
Boro
Dun
Pitch
Greenie
Fresh Meat #1 and #2 <-- Look! A response to the thread with her own ideas and some information about her voting. I'm not taking total credit (;)) but this is what I was after.

Off to look through TEW posts now. Assuming I don't close the tab again. :rolleyes:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I am starting to be slightly suspicious of sally - first her generally noncommited attitude, "flies eat me", as we say (not sure if it is an international saying), several threatening remarks towards the newbies and urging other people to do something where she herself does not seem to do anything except for that, more or less. Any analyses of your own? Any relevant suspicions or stuff like that?

And secondly, this "let's lynch the modfired ones" theory. Okay, now these later posts of hers where she keeps dragging it on seem more genuine, as in, if it was only a fake, then she probably wouldn't drag it that long. But in the beginning, it sounded a bit as if she was bringing some random theory which could actually prevent us from lynching a Wolf toDay (proved that neither of the newbies is one, which actually I think they might be) but then backing away from proposing it just after people seemed frowning about it. But then again, if I really think about it, I can see even innocent Sally doing something like that. Still, I am sort of wary of her.

Maybe in relation to this I should remark that I am also not entirely sure about Boro, at one point when reading through this I started to even think of Sally-Boro cooperation. Now after reading Boro's frustration-post (the one before mine, proven I don't cross with anyone), that sounds genuine and it would have to be really well-orchestrated for him to do so with a Wolfmate (I mean the "I am not getting into that argument again" stuff). Still, there is something that makes me slightly uneasy about him, maybe it's also the fact that he seemed so... calm after my last reply to him, I am used to an innocent Boro being more like constantly prodding people, I would have expected him to start arguing with me or something. But maybe he's just being sensible, or I am underestimating his reasonability in general (in that case, sorry) :)

EDIT: okay, x-ed only with Kath, that's fine.

[Kath]

TEW. A trailless kill? A suspected Gifted? A set up?

TEW #1:
I largely agreed with most of the information in this. We've always struggled with how much to speculate about wolvish behaviour and he outlined that pretty well. I disagree with his reasoning about Legate but I think that's down to a different reading of Legate's actual post. So here we've got an early suspicion. Could lead to being suspected of Seerdom given fairly strong suspicion in a first post.

TEW #2:
I found this comment rather odd, about quieter people being easier to read. I would always have thought that makes it harder! The phrase 'flying under the reindeer' doesn't exist for nothing. Given that TEW then takes back his suspicion of Legate here the Seer note is perhaps less likely. The flip flop on Legate might suggest a Legate set up.

TEW #3:
I'm beginning to doubt thought that he was a trailless kill. Look how many people he mentions in each post. Here he states suspicion of Inzil for talking about wolf tactics. I actually agree with Inzil that wolves trying to communicate during the Day would be pointlessly risky so I'm not convinced about TEWs reasoning, but the point is the strong opinion TEW shared here.

TEW #4:
Oddly we now come to two people he seems to have no real opinion on despite analysis; Boro and Galadriel. If either of these were wolves then perhaps he would be more likely to be a trailless kill.

TEW #5:
Votes Inzil for the wolf tactic talk. A reasoned vote based on personal analysis of the text.

So I'm thinking really not a trailless kill unless Galadriel or Boro are wolves. Could be an attempt at a Legate set up - if so I'd think we have very bold or very new wolves given Legate voted for him making the connection obvious.

[Inziladun]

Is modfire definitely happening? Because if not the debate isn't much use. Can the mod-God tell us? Or have I missed the question/response.

Actually, we're only going on suppositions, but the normal scenario is that a lack of voting two consecutive Days leads to modfire. We have one who has posted (albeit nothing of any apparent consequence), but has not voted yet, and one that hasn't appeared at all.

Where are you, Bom? Why so silent now?

x/d with Legate and Kath

[Kath]

Actually, we're only going on suppositions, but the normal scenario is that a lack of voting two consecutive Days leads to modfire. We have one who has posted (albeit nothing of any apparent consequence), but has not voted yet, and one that hasn't appeared at all.
Sure Inzil but in a small game like this it isn't always automatic as it can end the game so quickly so I was hoping for some confirmation either way. Although it's not a pleasant thing to think about I think it is important if we are definitely going to lose two players whatever as well as the lynched player.

[Galadriel55]

I'm reading through toDay's posts, and I noticed that some people are suspecting me for "mixing up Pitch and Bom". I get where the other suspicions are comming from, but this one is just unreasonable, at least from my perspective. I was on the verge of holding my eyes to keep them open, thinking "Bom was Ranger" and writing "he was Ranger". The result is that people thought I'm talking about Pitch. Well, I get that, and I clarified toDay. And I'm still suspected.

I am simply curious about how that could be a basis for suspicion. Kit? :Merisu:


Anyways, I'm continuing to read, so some more important comments likely to follow.

Edit: xed with Kath

[Galadriel55]

...Pretty much have nothing new to say. I think that lynching the mod-fired would be a good idea if by the end of toDay we don't have any better candidate. If we do - then we should go for the suspects who actually posted and try to benifit from the votes and the trail etc.

Reasonable? Possibly...

Except that we all vote and drop out at different times. That may be a problem in the plan: it's still gonna be disorganised and your regular D2, nothing special, no voting for agreed person (well, it's WW, we can't exactly all agree, right? That's the whole point of it...) That's Wolfadriel55 the cynic for you (or the realist, if you prefer). And now to talk about something less ranty -

YesterDay I was neutral about sally and slightly suspicious of Boro, but toDay they seem to be more innocent than not. Their toDay's posts give me good vibes. Looking at them both separately and together (a lot of back-and-forths between them), they don't sound like wolves.

Bom is certainly one whom I want to make an appearance.

Nerwen continues to puzzle me. If she's a wolf she's a daring one. Her reference to "her to-kill-list" would be a dangerous step for a wolf, but for all I know she might be expecting me to think that this shows her innocence while hiding her furry identity... Or she just might be innocent.... *is dizzy (actually)*


Sure Inzil but in a small game like this it isn't always automatic as it can end the game so quickly so I was hoping for some confirmation either way. Although it's not a pleasant thing to think about I think it is important if we are definitely going to lose two players whatever as well as the lynched player.

Which is why I was thinking of trying to make the votes organised: if we have an obvious suspect - lynch him/her, if we don't - lynch the modfireds.

[Galadriel55]

What?! It's been an hour, and I didn't cross with anyone?! :eek: ;)

[Boromir88]

Still, there is something that makes me slightly uneasy about him, maybe it's also the fact that he seemed so... calm after my last reply to him, I am used to an innocent Boro being more like constantly prodding people, I would have expected him to start arguing with me or something. But maybe he's just being sensible, or I am underestimating his reasonability in general (in that case, sorry) :)


I'm slightly uneasy about the sorry and smile, as it's always hard to argue with someone who's responding kindly and apologetic. :p

But, serious now, if I thought it would do any good I would have no trouble getting into an old-fashioned firestorm. Thing is, as G55 also remembered, last time I got into a passionate flame war all that happened was the hunter and ranger were revealed on Day 1. So, I'm attempting to remember someone can in fact disagree with me and not be a wolf. And while the situation right now is pretty intense, it's not loose-cannon mode quite yet.

Yes, we seem to disagree on why TEW was killed and the use of trying to figure out why he was killed. Although, I didn't make too much mention of it, I did think earlier today it was you attempting to steer everyone in a certain direction. But that was far from your focus, you were ready to move on to prodding people of your own, and so I'm not going to start an epic firestorm of arguments when it wouldn't do any good.

Make no mistake, I don't trust your judgement more than my own, but I trust you enough to say you appear to have good intentions so far.

[Galadriel55]

The time that I can actually sit at the computer for more than a coupe hours straight there's hardly any posts. So I'm going to talk about Boro's last post. :/

Thing is, as G55 also remembered, last time I got into a passionate flame war all that happened was the hunter and ranger were revealed on Day 1.

No, only you revealed on D1. Seer revealed on D2 with 2 dreamed wolves, and Ranger!Bom revealed on D3 to back up the Seer's claim (since he protected him the Night before). Then there were 2 fake-reveals of the revealed wolves, and then everyone went silly, so we had a dozen seers, hunters, rangers, mods, a werebear, a Necromancer, and even a Doctor (plus other maddness that I can't remember). And the moddess revealed to be the last wolf. Fun times. :p

But the point that I made still stands: if you argue with Bom about his jokes you'll get nowhere good... unless the Seer has 2 wolves on the hook. :D

[Galadriel55]

Yes, I'm that bored...... and no, I'm not even touching schoolwork today....

In fact I'm so bored that I will post a picture of a guest from Elftown:

http://www.elftown.com/stuff/aj/186786/PEACE%20OUT%20YALL!.jpg?jpg=y

*yawn*

[Boromir88]

Yes, I'm that bored...... and no, I'm not even touching schoolwork today....

In fact I'm so bored that I will post a picture of a guest from Elftown:

http://www.elftown.com/stuff/aj/186786/PEACE%20OUT%20YALL!.jpg?jpg=y

*yawn*


Ever think about re-channeling the boredom into doing a who you suspect list?

[Laeko_Randalis]

Boy do peole write a lot. But darned if I'm gonna be mod-fired that easily.

Quoting Boromir: #113 "But I can't see either you or Inzil being bothered much, by vague and slight suspicions if you were wolves."

Not to mention, it's usually very unwise to kill the person who voted for you. Then again, if there'd be any time TO do it, it would be the first kill, before "relationships" have been established and everyone's still all fuzzy about… well, everything!

And as has been pointed out, it's still early in the game, and it's just as likely that the wolves are as scared as the rest of us, wanting to make sure not to give themselves away. And hey, it does make a heck of a distraction to kill a target that they don't have much to go on.

Sally: #116, "benefiting us innocents?" You seem somewhat eager to point out your innocence, and that is making you seem suspicious. Then again, that's been pointed out before, so either you missed it, you forgot about it, or you're hoping that by repeatedly proclaiming your supposed innocence that you convince us that way. Have no idea whether that will work or not.

Cripes, I hate being a newbie, though the "protection" is nice, I suppose.

[Kath]

I need to vote now as I'm going to bed.

Timezones suck. I really want a definite answer on modfires and it looks like I'm not going to get one.

What I'm tempted to do is to vote for a potential modfire candidate. That way if Shasta does say modfire is happening then you guys can figure out what to do and my vote might come in useful.

On the other hand, clearly I don't actually suspect either of the potential modfire candidates as there is nothing to suspect them for!

So what I shall do is post this and go off and make my customary list to see if there is someone I have reason to suspect. In the meantime if there are any thoughts on the above please say.

[Inziladun]

Sally: #116, "benefiting us innocents?" You seem somewhat eager to point out your innocence, and that is making you seem suspicious. Then again, that's been pointed out before, so either you missed it, you forgot about it, or you're hoping that by repeatedly proclaiming your supposed innocence that you convince us that way. Have no idea whether that will work or not.

I've made note of that as well. It does tend to be something of a Sallyism to declare herself innocent, though I don't seem to recall it happening so frequently under negligible threat of lynching.

Cripes, I hate being a newbie, though the "protection" is nice, I suppose.

Just keep in mind newbie-passes expire Day 2. ;)

On the other hand, clearly I don't actually suspect either of the potential modfire candidates as there is nothing to suspect them for!

And one of them has now appeared.

[Kitanna]

I meant I didn't want there to be a single bandwaggon that just about everyone voted in– that leaves little or nothing to analyse the next Day.
I'm not crazy about this reasoning. Bandwagons like the one against Pitch can reveal a lot. He was suspicious to a number of people and everyone had a different reason. It's not like the bandwagon of possible modfires Sally suggested that leaves no traces. But more importantly I don't like that you brought up this plan after Boro. Seemed too opportunistic.
Kitanna - Really sharp, not sure about her alignment though!
I have clearly aligned with myself. Team Kit!

Incidentally, we have at least two players in danger of modfire toDay. This does not bode well. We need everyone to participate and vote, or the wolves will win without a fight.
I have already disagreed with your plan, but if it wasn't a complete waste I would vote for them on the grounds of being inconsiderate. If you're not going to comment or vote at all wait until you can join a game where you can. /anger

I'd probably try it if I didn't like where the lynch was headed (e.g. someone I trusted was alone on the block).
Someone you trusted like a fellow wolf, perhaps?

Of the Pitch voters, Bom's reasons are the most suspicious. His vote for Pitch came after a post where he sort of backs off:
:
Originally Posted by Bom, #53
Well, while I disagree with the idea Pitchwife's explanation for his behavior so far, it is enough to get me off his back for now (though he's still a candidate for voting until/unless somebody else starts acting suspicious). I'd hate to vote G55 for what seems to me like a genuine peacekeeping effort, and nobody else is really standing out much to me.
He sort of backs off, but doesn't, by leaving the door open to vote Pitch if nothing else happens.
I missed the post by Bom. I wish I had seen that before voting yesterday. I don't know if I'd have changed my vote, but it would have given me more to consider. Bom's pretty much disappeared today and that's a shame because I wasn't done suspecting him. But I won't sit here and regurgitate what I've already said about him.

I want sally around. She's a good player. But she's not much help with the above level of posting. I hoped a vote-kick might push her into more posting.
I tend to go after Sally because she makes more posts than anyone, but only about 10% or her posts have substance. So I sympathize with Kath there. But even so there are better ways to scare up a Sally than a vote. But I guess when you're pressed for time you have to work with what you got. Still...

I am simply curious about how that could be a basis for suspicion. Kit? Every slip of the tongue is scrutinized in WW, for better or worse. The more important suspicion for me is the fact you said you were voting for Pitch out of spite, but he'd garnered a lot of suspicion already. You cross posted so you thought you were the first to vote for him, but he had a lot of buzz and so I don't buy you "out of spite" reasoning.

Cripes, I hate being a newbie, though the "protection" is nice, I suppose.
I'm against protecting your lot. You're lucky you didn't really say anything yesterday. :p

I got no time today. If I live until Day 3 I will be around for actual comment. I only had some time to skim and I narrowed my choices to Nerwen, G55, and Bom. For now I'm putting Kath on a watch list because I still don't like her vote reasoning. But I like the others less.

++ Bom

He hasn't said anything today...that I noticed at least. But I reread his posts and his comment about Pitch being vicious got Pitch all worked up and I used that as a reason to vote Pitch yesterday. Upon rereading his posts I find that a pretty wolfish move. It made Pitch look bad when he reacted (at least in my eyes) and kept him prevalent in people's minds. He backed off Pitch, but still voted for him. Not good at all.

[satansaloser2005]

The mod has spoken (well, texted). Normal modfire rules apply.


X'd with Kit

[A Little Green]

Good news? I'm back. Bad news? It's past 2 AM my time.
That's Wolfadriel55 the cynic for you (or the realist, if you prefer).Err - this is a joke, right? Right? :confused:

[A Little Green]

Be that as it may, I need a bed now. Thought I'd be back sooner but no can do, shuld be more available toMorrow if I'm still alive. Going after my current top suspect,

++ Nerwen

For her reactions to Pitch and the Pitchwaggon. (More detailed reasons are to be found in my earlier posts.)

Good night folks! Oh, and Lommy and Nog say hi.

[Kath]

Vote tally from yesterDay:

Kath --> sally (As an incentive to be useful!)
Pitch --> Galadriel (For refusing to join in with useful discussion.)
Legate --> TEW (As an incentive to stop being lazy.)
Inzil --> Pitch (For accusing him of harping on and switching suspects suddenly.)
Kitanna --> Pitch (For trying to help packmate Bom not seem so wolvish? I think? Not sure here.)
Galadriel --> Pitch (For meta-game reasons.)
(Inzil, Kitanna and Galadriel all cross-posted these votes.)
Bom --> Pitch (Makes it 4 votes. No explanation in the vote post.)
Boro --> Kath (To make sure I explained my vote toDay.)
TEW --> Inzil (No explanation in vote post but based on previous suspicions.)
sally --> TEW (For a forced feel to his posts.)
Nerwen --> Kath (For an ill-reasoned vote.)

Didn't vote:
Greenie (I've been ignoring her as a modfire candidate. She'll vote toDay I'm sure.)
Azura
Laeko

Well it's pretty clear that Bom struck the decisive blow for Pitch. Having seen three cross-posted votes he definitely put the final nail in that coffin. If he is a wolf that seems a very bold move. Based just on this the people I'd be most suspicious of would be TEW and sally, given their votes. They knew Greenie wasn't reappearing and one newbie hadn't shown at all. Yet their votes go to two completely unrepresented people in the vote tally thus far. Throwaway votes really. TEW though we now know to be innocent. Therefore I can't be certain the same isn't true for sally.

So, to toDay:
Nerwen - said TEW would be trailless but hadn't yet checked the posts. Question about the analysis: She says the wolves shouldn't have seen TEW as Gifted given he backed off from the Legate suspicion, but then goes on to mention his 'nervous Gifted' behaviour. Either I'm not following your train of thought or you've flip flopped there Nerwen? I like the sword icon catch though.

Legate - good reasoning behind his ideas. Going for the no-trace option which I think is less likely, but is possible. Starts to suspect Galadriel after the same post I just read and didn't like. Going the opposite way to sally - thinking we have wolves laying low. Starting to suspect sally for not joining in. (Seeing a theme her Legate!). And Boro for not being jumpy enough I think!

Galadriel - voted for Pitch for meta-game reasons and then says he seemed so suspicious. Don't like that. An organised lynch is like a ... something that doesn't work. Pretty much unless the Seer reveals a wolf name near the beginning of the Day it just doesn't happen that everyone votes together. There can never be enough trust.

Kitanna - posts as a train of thought! I like it. :D I'm not convinced about being suspicious of someone for muddling names up, it happens. Her other thoughts on Galadriel are pretty well reasoned though. I've discussed my vote. I hadn't thought about Nerwen's vote for me being suspicious. I was more pleased that she had chosen someone already on the potential lynch-list rather than a throwaway. Argues against modfire - reasonably. Ends up voting Bom for some well thought through reasons I think. Only thing I don't like about it is that Bom hasn't spoken yet toDay and it is tough voting someone when they haven't had a chance to defend themselves. That said, time limits are time limits.

Greenie - ambivalence about sally, suspicion of Nerwen for pushing others to suspect Pitch while avoiding it herself but then pretty much takes it back so nothing definite there. Suspects Zil but no reasoning/analysis.

sally - says she's ill. States she wanted to lynch TEW. A little odd given he's just been proven innocent. Feels we may have bold wolves. Meaning what sally? Loudmouths? Bandwaggonning voters? Begins the modfire discussion. sally says modfires lose us phases but 'I'm really fine either way, but you're being pretty cavalier with our numbers.' Sorry, you can't be fine about doing either, and be accusing someone else of being cavalier about numbers. If the modfires gain us phases then great, more Days to try and catch a wolf. If they lose us phases, fewer Days to try and catch a wolf. 'Fine either way' isn't really acceptable then!

Inzil - really don't like it when people apologise for their votes posthumously (ach, that's not the right words but you know what I mean.) Seems to scream guilt. Could be a particular playing style but even if so I don't like it. Some suspicion of Bom for his vote placement. Agrees with Kitanna about not voting modfires.

Boro - tries to meld the trailless kill vs set up options. Yeah fair point there could be more than one reason going on. TEW was chosen and there must have been a reason why he was chosen over others. Largely I think that has been decently analysed toDay. Questions Legate about his vote. Argues against modfires. I disagree with Boro about the cross-posting for Pitch. If all three cross-posted then to each person there was only one vote for Pitch for them at that time. They would have each been the first to vote. So how can their timing have been suspicious? There was no bandwagon until the cross-posting dust cleared.

Laeko - hey! Our newbie reappeared! This may change our entire modfire thoughts anyway! I like this so far - some good thoughts and reasoned suspicion of sally.

And just saw sally's post about Shasta's text. Normal modfire rules are ...? No vote for two Days or no posts for two Days?

Ok, posting this, going to do a vote tally for toDay (hah! That'll be time-consuming :rolleyes:) and then I'll vote.

[Kath]

Kitanna --> Bom (For setting up Pitch yesterDay.)
Greenie --> Nerwen (For how she reacted to everything surrounding Pitch.)

[Galadriel55]

Err - this is a joke, right? Right?

No, I am a wolf, I thought that was an obvious fact. :smokin:


Of course it's a joke. :) Though not the part about the cynic. ^.^

Cripes, I hate being a newbie, though the "protection" is nice, I suppose.

I, for one, rode that protection to a gallant defeat on my first game (I was wolf). It was fun seeing all the analyses say "G55 looks so wolfish... but she's just a confused innocent making newbie mistakes".

My conclusion: whatever alignment Laeko might be of, I am willing to let her (him?) have the fun of being newbie for an extra Day. She wasn't round much on Day 1, and I think she should have the chance to participate a bit before being bombarded with accusations. (Plus, we don't have much to accuse on.)

Ever think about re-channeling the boredom into doing a who you suspect list?

If only you posted before my internet collapsed! (Well, at least that gave me something to do...:rolleyes:)


Anyways, one of the top on my suspicion list atm is Nerwen. Perhaps even the highest, since Bom is no-show toDay (where art thou?). Some things about her just don't make sene. There's her vote and some of her statements. I can't ever read her, but she's making me nervous. I'm probably voting her toDay, unless something happens between now and bedtime (such as an appearance from either her or Bom with some things that will change their position on my list for th worst or for the better).

Edit: xed since Greenie's vote.

[Kath]

With those two votes ... I won't vote Bom. He hasn't been on yet toDay so can't defend himself. And I would like a reply from Nerwen about where I'm confused on her thoughts. So I'm not going to be voting for either of them.

I'm clearly of a vastly different opinion on how the voting went yesterDay than some people. This is causing me to be suspicious of them. To me, there was no Pitch-wagon until Bom added a fourth vote with the time to be aware of the previous votes.

Possibilities:
Galadriel or Inzil for apologising for voting Pitch. I just find that very suspicious. It's like going 'Oh silly me! Don't blame me now, will you?'

sally for being hypocritical about the modfire situation. You do the same thing as someone else they can't be bad and you be good.

Boro for imagining a Pitch bandwagon and making a bigger deal out of it than there needs to be.

Quick re-read of Galadriel and Inzil's posts. On a re-read, Galadriel didn't actually apologise, she just stated frustration. Inzil on the other hand definitely apologised and tried to backtrack on his suspicion.

++INZIL

And to bed.

X-POST with Galadriel

[satansaloser2005]

Kath: Yes. Two Days without voting equals death.


Based on both yesterDay's malarkey and reactions to my modfire plan toDay....

I will not vote for:
Kath
Kit
Greenie
Dun
Legate


I'm also excluding the newbies, of course, you silly people. Thank you very much for reacting to the plan, however. :smokin:



Undoubtedly x'd

[Galadriel55]

Forgetting to say this in the last post I make this a separate post:

I find Nerwen's explanation of her vote slightly peculiar.

I might vote her, simply *because* I don't want a universal bandwaggon – and yeah, her vote was suspect, all right. The only thing I could say about it, really, is that this being *Kath*, she may honestly not realise what you're *supposed* to do on Day One. (Trouble is, looking at Kath tnds to bring Pitch back into it anyway.)

She suspects Kath for her vote for sally, but lets it go because of Kath's usual Day Ones. After the "Pitchwagon" she decides that she doesn't want to vote for someone who is obviously going to be lynched (what chance would there be of someone appearing 2 min. before deadline to save him?) and wants a good discussion about votes (and how they vary). So is that a reason to do a throwaway for someone whom you don't really suspect? Just for generating discussion? And not being associated with the "bandwaggon"?

The more I look at it the fishier it seems.

So once again, unless Nerwen comes with convincing explanations (or corrections, if I have misread her reasoning), I'm 99% sure I'm voting her.



PS:

Galadriel - voted for Pitch for meta-game reasons and then says he seemed so suspicious

When exactly did I say this after my vote? Either you are misreading my posts or I am misreading yours. It's true that toDay I "stated frustration", as you put it, but where, toDay, have I said that he was so suspicious (so it's his own fault he was lynched)?

I think many people misunderstand the explanation for my vote yesterDay. I had suspicions for both Bom and Pitch. There were two things that tipped the balance towards Pitch: the ones that I listed. But they were like "last straws", not the foundation.

[Nerwen]

Back and reading,

And just a little note– anyone else think the poster above me (G55) sound like she's sort of– reaching? Or am I just taking things personally?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, it is late for me, I feel incredibly tired and I should vote: not a very good combination in the end. Of the possibilities, I don't want to vote Laeko or Azura again, since either there will be a modfire, or then there is little to go with and let's give them a chance. Once. (I won't drag this forever, but even if one of them is a Wolf, it is still only one Wolf, at most two. There still would be somebody out there.) Something similar goes for Bom: just where might he be??

I am still not 100% convinced about Boro, even after his reply to me, he just seems too, arrgh, Mr. Agreeable. Maybe Pitch was in fact reincarnated?

Kath still looks okay to me. Greenie does, well, maybe not look okay in the same sense as Kath does (i.e. does not look innocentish), but does not look guilty either. I am not sure if I should put Nerwen into this group: like Greenie, she does not seem outwardly guilty in any way, but makes me nervous for some reason.

Sally... it's difficult. Kitanna... hard to tell, but inclined to say... hmm... well, in fact, I don't know. Similar with Inzil. These three would deserve more looking at, but I am not really in the state to do it. Which does not actually comfort me very much.

G55 was somewhat suspicious to me basically up to right now, when I am seeing her continuous elaborate posts. Maybe she is just a Wolf with too much time on her hands, but for some reason, I can imagine Wolf doing rather something else than posting analyses of people all the time.

I wonder whom did I forget. Hopefully nobody. But now, short time to think.

EDIT: xed with Nerwen. To note: this sounded genuine.

[Nerwen]

Nerwen - said TEW would be trailless but hadn't yet checked the posts. Question about the analysis: She says the wolves shouldn't have seen TEW as Gifted given he backed off from the Legate suspicion, but then goes on to mention his 'nervous Gifted' behaviour. Either I'm not following your train of thought or you've flip flopped there Nerwen? I like the sword icon catch though.
Kath, I don't think you can have read my post there properly– I was talking about several different possible scenarios, and you seem to have merged them.

To note: this sounded genuine.
Well, now that I *have* caught up in my reading– it looks even more to me like a forced suspicion– like she's seen a chance to lynch me after noting Kit and Greenie's posts on me.

[Laeko_Randalis]

Kit, #137 I'm against protecting your lot. You're lucky you didn't really say anything yesterday.

Sounds like SOMEpony's jealous. Nah, just kidding. You drive a hard, cold logic, but you seem legit nevertheless. Maybe a little too serious, but legit.

And yes, to everypony else, I do understand that my protection ends tonight. I honestly didn't ask for it and the only reason I'm thankful for it is because it took me a while to get into the habit of checking this thread. I might actually be bummed to see Azura go, because it looks like he's gonna get modfired unless he does something last-minute.

Regarding Bom, I didn't like the first impression I got, but that was a combination of the vibe I got from his post combined with his usericon (I know, that's stupid, but his post and his picture seemed to communicate a logical predator cooly observing his prey). But first impressions over texted internet are easily misleading, so I'm going to hope he posts more and see what happens. Hopefully I'll wind up liking him as much as I like his screenname.

If Sally confessed to wanting to lynch TEW after he was proven innocent, my first conclusion is that she's being honest and confessing her mistake (though I missed the post in which she said it. Weird, I could have sworn I read everything after TEW died). Then again, upon further reading, I now understand the suspicion of lynch-apologizing.

[satansaloser2005]

Nerwen: I was wary of the jump as well, but, well, I'll be frank. I rather suspect both of you.

EDIT: clarification, x'd with Laeko

[Nerwen]

And another thing–
She suspects Kath for her vote for sally, but lets it go because of Kath's usual Day Ones. After the "Pitchwagon" she decides that she doesn't want to vote for someone who is obviously going to be lynched (what chance would there be of someone appearing 2 min. before deadline to save him?) and wants a good discussion about votes (and how they vary). So is that a reason to do a throwaway for someone whom you don't really suspect? Just for generating discussion? And not being associated with the "bandwaggon"?

Whereas I should have jumped on it, as is the duty of all good citizens? I have said– what you have seemingly chosen to ignore– that I did not strongly suspect Pitch either. I had expression my suspicions of him, but I don't think I did so in such terms as to oblige me to go ahead and vote for him. Again– you're reaching.

EDIT:X'd since last post.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, now that I *have* caught up in my reading– it looks even more to me like a forced suspicion– like she's seen a chance to lynch me after noting Kit and Greenie's posts on me.

Just for clarity, I hope it was understood that by that note I was referring to your post sounding genuine, not hers. I.e. it was meant to say: now this post made me feel slightly better about Nerwen.

I don't know, this is all rather difficult. I think I could easily divide village in some way into people who sound like innocents who defend themselves (like Nerwen) and people who sound somehow fake during that (like Gal). Or at least to some extent. Then also I am terribly afraid that we will mess something up mightily.

If somebody now pointed a gun to my head and I were to right now name three Wolves, I would say: Boro, Gal, Inzil. That is, leaving out those I don't hear much from at the moment (Laeko, Azura and Bom). There is also Kitanna in brackets, but I really don't know much about her.

Now okay, if I were to go with one of those three I just named, I would probably leave Boro be for the time being, so it would be either Gal or Zil. That is difficult, since Zil already has a vote, if I am not mistaken, therefore it would be easier to get him lynched. On the other hand, I really am not sure how to choose. There is still the "did the WWs think TEW dreamed of a Zilwolf, or are they framing him, or is it all just a coincidence?" thing (well, personally I think it is at least either of the first two - the problem is which one), that does not help much in the end if we don't know the answer.

But I am closer to deciding. And I have probably said all I wanted to, not that there is much. I will post, see if I cross-posted with somebody, then vote and go to sleep.

EDIT: x-ed with Laeko and others. Okay, that looks actually good - posts!

[Galadriel55]

Well, now that I *have* caught up in my reading– it looks even more to me like a forced suspicion– like she's seen a chance to lynch me after noting Kit and Greenie's posts on me.

Maybe you didn't notice that part, but I have been the first to say that your yesterDay's vote looked funny. In my very first post toDay.

And my suspicions on you strengthened with your reaction. I get the feeling that you're very concerned about getting the spotlight off yourself.


I know it's the norm for me to suspect innocents regardless of my own role, but does that mean that now I can't suspect you just because I missed the mark with Pitch and other people in previous games? Is there anything wrong with having suspicions? Not until they are pointed at you, perhaps?

Edit: xed since the post I quoted

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I don't know, my head is not working properly anymore to evaluate stuff. I cannot say objectively whether it just seems to me that Gal is acting like a Wolf in defense or if it is genuine. However, based on everything previous, I am going to vote her, it is probably one little bit more probable that she is a Wolf than it is with Zil. And since I am deciding now between the two of them, it is decided.

++Galadriel55


Random remark: Laeko looks good after the last post. Believe innocent.

And good Night, people.

[Galadriel55]

And another thing–


Whereas I should have jumped on it, as is the duty of all good citizens? I have said– what you have seemingly chosen to ignore– that I did not strongly suspect Pitch either. I had expression my suspicions of him, but I don't think I did so in such terms as to oblige me to go ahead and vote for him. Again– you're reaching.

EDIT:X'd since last post.

Ok, but saying "I'll vote for someone that has less votes just so that the tally looks more interesting" is..... not what I consider to be a very good reason for a vote.

I now understand the point about you not choosing Pitch, which makes your vote be for your other suspect - Kath. But your explanation is....well, I've said it.

Putting myself in your shoes, if I saw I'd put the last nail in the coffin I would probably avoid voting that person or come up with a darned good reason to do so, since then I'd be suspected for jumping on the wagon. But that would automatically show that I value my own skin more than being honest with the village, and we all know what that means.

In your case, as I understood it, Pitch and Kath were equally suspicious. A choice between the devil and the deep blue sea, perhaps. But your reasoning is nonetheless suspicious, at least to me.

Edit: xed with Legate. I love being the center of attention. :p

[Inziladun]

With those two votes ... I won't vote Bom. He hasn't been on yet toDay so can't defend himself. And I would like a reply from Nerwen about where I'm confused on her thoughts. So I'm not going to be voting for either of them.

So, you don't want to vote Bom, even though here:

I'm clearly of a vastly different opinion on how the voting went yesterDay than some people. This is causing me to be suspicious of them. To me, there was no Pitch-wagon until Bom added a fourth vote with the time to be aware of the previous votes.

....you say you are suspicious of him for adding the fourth vote on Pitch? Just because he hasn't been here thus far shouldn't stop you from voting someone you legitimately suspect.

Quick re-read of Galadriel and Inzil's posts. On a re-read, Galadriel didn't actually apologise, she just stated frustration. Inzil on the other hand definitely apologised and tried to backtrack on his suspicion.

I wouldn't say I "backtracked", though I did feel bad for voting him. It seems I always end up suspecting him and he's never guilty.

I think Nerwen looks more shiny than G55 at the moment. Also feeling rather good about Kit.

Boro is up to something. Good? Evil? Meh.

Legate seems to be his genuine innocent self.

Greenie seems sharp somehow. Not really sure what I mean by that, but she makes sense and gives me pause at the same time.

I still want to hear from Bom.

x/d with Legate and G55

[Nerwen]

Maybe you didn't notice that part, but I have been the first to say that your yesterDay's vote looked funny. In my very first post toDay.

You mean this, my dear?
I'm kinda curious about Nerwen's vote yesterDay, but I doubt that a Nerwolf would be so careless about an almost-throwaway with little explanation (I have to look again, I don't remember how the tally looked when she voted.)

And my suspicions on you strengthened with your reaction.
Really. What exactly did I say that led you to jump from "kinda curious" to "99% sure I'm going to vote her"? Are you sure it wasn't Greenie and Kit's reactions?

I get the feeling that you're very concerned about getting the spotlight off yourself.
Well, naturally I'm not keen on getting lynched– but also, I'm rather keen on catching wolves, and your behaviour now is looking distinctly lupine. Like a wolf trying to find an alternative lynchee.

I know it's the norm for me to suspect innocents regardless of my own role, but does that mean that now I can't suspect you just because I missed the mark with Pitch and other people in previous games?
Aha. So you know I'm innocent?

Is there anything wrong with having suspicions? Not until they are pointed at you, perhaps?
Not until they look wolfish.

EDIT:X'd since G55 at #154.

[Galadriel55]

Really. What exactly did I say that led you to jump from "kinda curious" to "99% sure I'm going to vote her"?

12 hours of meditation led me to it... :D (aka between my first post and the time I have been able to start posting again) Also the fact that Bom (my #2 suspect from yesterDay) did not show up toDay.

[/quote]Are you sure it wasn't Greenie and Kit's reactions?[/quote]

Quite sure, though you won't believe me anyways.

Well, naturally I'm not keen on getting lynched– but also, I'm rather keen on catching wolves, and your behaviour now is looking distinctly lupine. Like a wolf trying to find an alternative lynchee.

I could say the same about you.

Aha. So you know I'm innocent?

I think the whole point of suspecting someone is to think them to be guilty - until proven right or wrong by the mod.

[Galadriel55]

I think Nerwen looks more shiny than G55 at the moment.

I don't shine, I glow. :cool: It's up to you to decide what the glow is, though: the phial, Minas Morgul, or perhaps the Elessar. Though no Silmarils.

[Boromir88]

Boro is up to something. Good? Evil? Meh.


Come on now, saying I'm up to something is like saying my jaw drops and I become speechless around shiny red hair.

You might not be cramped for time but you're better than this watered down, non-committing Inzil version you've been giving for nearing 2 days.

Nerwen: I was wary of the jump as well, but, well, I'll be frank. I rather suspect both of you.


To be honest, I suspect you and Kath more than Nerwen or G55.

Kath explained her vote Day 1 ok enough, but her posts after have been full of misunderstanding people it seems:

I disagree with Boro about the cross-posting for Pitch. If all three cross-posted then to each person there was only one vote for Pitch for them at that time. They would have each been the first to vote. So how can their timing have been suspicious? There was no bandwagon until the cross-posting dust cleared.

Inzil said the time of Bom's vote made him the worst of the Pitch voters. And I said, the time didn't matter. Bom looked suspicious for apparently backing off Pitch, while still leaving the door open to vote for him later.

Boro for imagining a Pitch bandwagon and making a bigger deal out of it than there needs to be.

Coincedental cross-voting aside, there was still 4 straight votes for Pitch. So, how did I imagine a bandwagon?

[Galadriel55]

Coincedental cross-voting aside, there was still 4 straight votes for Pitch. So, how did I imagine a bandwagon?

I cn see both sides. It depends on what you consider to be a bandwagon - just a clear trend to vote a certain person, or people jumping onto the trend. Did I understand this right?



++NERWEN



I probably will not be back for the rest of the Day, so I'm voting now, just in case. Good luck, village.

[Boromir88]

I cn see both sides. It depends on what you consider to be a bandwagon - just a clear trend to vote a certain person, or people jumping onto the trend. Did I understand this right?


Guess there's a difference. But in the case of jumping onto a trend, even though Bom's vote came last, you could say he started the trend too.

Vote count...

Kitanna ---> Bom
Greenie ---> Nerwen
Kath ---> Inzil
Legate ---> G55
G55 ---> Nerwen (2)

[Inziladun]

Random remark: Laeko looks good after the last post. Believe innocent.

What I've seen toDay does look all right, but I'm not ready to say "innocent'.

You might not be cramped for time but you're better than this watered down, non-committing Inzil version you've been giving for nearing 2 days.

It just that I'm riddled with ADHD, you s....hey, look! A dog with a curly tail!

Really, though. The interplay between G55 and Nerwen is reminiscent of Pitch and Bom yesterDay. I'd like to vote Bom, but it doesn't look like there'll be much support.

x/d with Boro

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nerwen
Really. What exactly did I say that led you to jump from "kinda curious" to "99% sure I'm going to vote her"?
12 hours of meditation led me to it... (aka between my first post and the time I have been able to start posting again) Also the fact that Bom (my #2 suspect from yesterDay) did not show up toDay.
So it *wasn't* anything I said toDay at all. Even though you claimed it was, earlier. Well, well.

Are you sure it wasn't Greenie and Kit's reactions?
Quite sure, though you won't believe me anyways.
No, probably not– given the thing I just quoted.

I know it's the norm for me to suspect innocents regardless of my own role, but does that mean that now I can't suspect you just because I missed the mark with Pitch and other people in previous games?
Quote:
Aha. So you know I'm innocent?
I think the whole point of suspecting someone is to think them to be guilty - until proven right or wrong by the mod.
No, I thought you'd let slip that you know perfectly well I'm not a wolf. I see now that's not what you meant. Still a dubious-looking passage, I think– looks to me like you're already preparing your defence for toMorrow in the event that you manage to lynch me toDay. ("Ooops! Poor Nerwen– but, you know, it's just little me, I do that kind of thing...")

I don't shine, I glow. It's up to you to decide what the glow is, though: the phial, Minas Morgul, or perhaps the Elessar. Though no Silmarils.
Okay... that just raised the stakes. I can't interpret this as anything but a claim that you have a special role of *some* kind.

Kath explained her vote Day 1 ok enough, but her posts after have been full of misunderstanding people it seems:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kath
I disagree with Boro about the cross-posting for Pitch. If all three cross-posted then to each person there was only one vote for Pitch for them at that time. They would have each been the first to vote. So how can their timing have been suspicious? There was no bandwagon until the cross-posting dust cleared.
Inzil said the time of Bom's vote made him the worst of the Pitch voters. And I said, the time didn't matter. Bom looked suspicious for apparently backing off Pitch, while still leaving the door open to vote for him later.

Quote:
Boro for imagining a Pitch bandwagon and making a bigger deal out of it than there needs to be.
Coincedental cross-voting aside, there was still 4 straight votes for Pitch. So, how did I imagine a bandwagon?

I think this is a semantical quibble on the definition of "bandwaggon". She's saying it's not a waggon unless everyone votes in succession, and knowing about the previous votes. So technically this wasn't a bandwaggon, more of a "sudden group pounce". It was still peculiar, though, whatever you decide to call it.

EDIT:X'd since Boro at #161.

[Boromir88]

=
Really, though. The interplay between G55 and Nerwen is reminiscent of Pitch and Bom yesterDay. I'd like to vote Bom, but it doesn't look like there'll be much support.


I really don't like voting for someone who hasn't been around to answer or give a defense.

But of Nerwen, G55, or Bom, based on his actions and vote yesterday, Bom looks more suspicious and I'd rather vote him. Although, I'd prefer most to vote for sally or Kath. I wouldn't feel comfortable if I was forced to make a decision between G55 and Nerwen today.

Edit: crossed with Nerwen

[Nerwen]

But of Nerwen, G55, or Bom, based on his actions and vote yesterday, Bom looks more suspicious and I'd rather vote him. Although, I'd prefer most to vote for sally or Kath. I wouldn't feel comfortable if I was forced to make a decision between G55 and Nerwen today.
Let it be noted that G55 has already been caught in a direct lie– see my previous post.

[satansaloser2005]

Between Nerwen and Galadriel, I must choose....

++Galwolfriel


I'd stay around, but I'm simply too tired. Sorry, kids.

[Inziladun]

I really don't like voting for someone who hasn't been around to answer or give a defense.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I guess he'll have to make an appearance toMorrow.

But of Nerwen, G55, or Bom, based on his actions and vote yesterday, Bom looks more suspicious and I'd rather vote him. Although, I'd prefer most to vote for sally or Kath. I wouldn't feel comfortable if I was forced to make a decision between G55 and Nerwen today.

I believe I could go for G55 based on what Nerwen's said, as well as the fact that she was involved in the Pitch-wagon yesterDay (along with, coincidentally, I'm sure, Bom :rolleyes:). It's hard for me to believe no wolves were involved with that.

x/d with Sally

[Nerwen]

I believe I could go for G55 based on what Nerwen's said, as well as the fact that she was involved in the Pitch-wagon yesterDay (along with, coincidentally, I'm sure, Bom ). It's hard for me to believe no wolves were involved with that.
...says the person who was involved in the Pitch-waggon... :confused:

[Inziladun]

...says the person who was involved in the Pitch-waggon... :confused:

Of course I was. And I'm the only one I can trust. I'm inclined to think Kit looks relatively innocent at the moment, though.

[Boromir88]

Let it be noted that G55 has already been caught in a direct lie– see my previous post.

And I sucked it up to do a quick re-read of G55's post, there's been a few things I've overlooked

:/ *sigh* *bedtime* See y'all toMorrow, unless you lynch me *glares at villagers* or kill me *glares at wolves*.

Granted bandwagons can form out of nowhere, but that came after she saw the 3 votes for Pitch. And yesterday, aside from Pitch (who had already voted for her), I don't recall many supsicious reactions towards her.

And then today with just the making jokes about being a wolf. I don't get the point of doing that, and more often then not it's what always made me suspicious of Fea.

But, this would mean I have to trust you now Nerwen. Frankly, I've never been able to figure you out, and at some point in the past I gave up trying. I'm going through your posts next to figure out if I can and this isn't some aggressive strike back at someone who's been all over the place today.

[Inziladun]

And to be accurate, I started the Pitch-wagon.

x/d with Boro

[Inziladun]

But, this would mean I have to trust you now Nerwen. Frankly, I've never been able to figure you out, and at some point in the past I gave up trying. I'm going through your posts next to figure out if I can and this isn't some aggressive strike back at someone who's been all over the place today.

Oh, it's certainly not easy to trust Nerwen. I just think she looks better at this point than G55.

[Boromir88]

And to be accurate, I started the Pitch-wagon.


Uhh...is it me or just the tiredness, but that isn't something I'd feel proud about?

[Laeko_Randalis]

Hmm, whom to logically choose...

Kitana is out, she seems to dislike me too much for her to be a werewolf.
Legate seems entirely legit, as well.
Boromir seems to be one of the brightest minds in the game, and while I find it hard to trust anyone whose logic is too intelligent for me to follow, my gut nevertheless tells me he's good to go.
I haven't myself noticed anything about Kath that makes me suspect them.
Same goes for Greenie.
Inziladun gets points for pointing out they started the Pitchwagon.
I'm keeping a close eye on Sally, though it seems as though I'm not the only one with suspicions.
And finally, I'm not going to vote for Bom because he hasn't been around to defend himself today.

Having read the discussion, that leaves Nerwen and Galadriel. What strikes me as both hilarious and confusing simultaneously is that the two seem to have engaged in quite the argument. Now, that could potentially mean that a) neither of them is is a wolf but they suspect each other, b) one of them is and is trying to make the other one look it so as to avoid attracting attention herself, or c) both of them are and one of the werewolves is getting betrayed. c) is illogical because it's far too early in the game. This is why I decided to wait further.

++Galadriel

[Galadriel55]

Well guess what - I am back.

Let it be noted that G55 has already been caught in a direct lie

Sez Nerwen who is eager to get me out of the way. Ain't that some overblowing?

No, I thought you'd let slip that you know perfectly well I'm not a wolf. I see now that's not what you meant. Still a dubious-looking passage, I think– looks to me like you're already preparing your defence for toMorrow in the event that you manage to lynch me toDay. ("Ooops! Poor Nerwen– but, you know, it's just little me, I do that kind of thing...")

Let's see what you say toMorrow in the event that I am lynched.

And speaking of that - toDay might be a heavy blow for the villagers - by their own hands! (well, mostly, with only three pairs guiding it in the "right" direction) - with azura almost sealing his/her fate by now on top of everything else.

Edit: xed since 173

[Inziladun]

Uhh...is it me or just the tiredness, but that isn't something I'd feel proud about?

Not pride, just fact.

I can't leave it any longer.

++G55

x/d with G55 herself

[Azura]

I vote ++Sallybecause of her earlier posts(all I could think of...and will probably get yelled at for doing somthing here wrong...I hate being a newbie)

[Galadriel55]

c) both of them are and one of the werewolves is getting betrayed. c) is illogical because it's far too early in the game. This is why I decided to wait further.

Although I know for sure this is not true (as does Nerwen, regardless of role :smokin:), I'd warn you against hasty decisions about wolf-on-wolf attacks. In my first ever game as a wolf one of my companions was fenrissed shouting her head off that I'm the wolf. The result was that I survived an extra few Days. Well, the "ewbie protection" also helped, but I still got votes starting from Day 1. So w-on-w could be done pretty early in the game as well.

And now think: would I be saying this if I was a wolf?

Edit: xed since my last post

[Nerwen]

Mmmn. Well, I'll be having a good look at you, Zil, if I'm still alive toMorrow. I meant to toDay, but this business with G55 got in the way.

Anyway, I'll vote her shortly, I guess– though I'd like some opinions on her funny little gifted-hint, as I take it to be.

EDIT:X'd since Zil at #174.

[Boromir88]

And the current matter aside. I would like to add Laeko, glad you've come in to be a refreshing new mind. Sometimes when you get all of us together with mutually long WWing experiences, we go charging with blinders and set in our own specific way. New players, who bring in a fresher perspective. Nice. (You know though, once you have a reputation it's hard to shake off? :p)

[Galadriel55]

Anyway, I'll vote her shortly, I guess

But why hesitate when you are so convinced that I'm a wolf? :)

Edit: xed with Boro

[Boromir88]

I vote ++Sally because of her earlier posts(all I could think of...and will probably get yelled at for doing somthing here wrong...I hate being a newbie)

Nope. Voting good. If you hadn't shown up and gotten mod-fired, they may have been some yelling. Well, I wouldn't look too kindly on it, unless there was some unavoidable emergency. But you arrived, voted. Not going to get yelled at for that.

[Nerwen]

And now think: would I be saying this if I was a wolf?
Er... you know that's the classic wolf line, right?

But why hesitate when you are so convinced that I'm a wolf?

I'm not "convinced". I merely find it highly likely. Naturally I still hesitate– the small numbers make it very important to lynch right toDay.


EDIT:X'd with Boro.

[Boromir88]

Anyway, I'll vote her shortly, I guess– though I'd like some opinions on her funny little gifted-hint, as I take it to be.


Well if it was a gifted hint, I would think if G55 was a wolf she would have already come out with a stronger fake reveal than a warning about the village being harmed by their own doing.

[Galadriel55]

I meant to toDay, but this business with G55 got in the way.

My, someone sounds annoyed! :D

To be honest with you I'm in a really good mood right now.

And then today with just the making jokes about being a wolf. I don't get the point of doing that, and more often then not it's what always made me suspicious of Fea.

It's quite fun. (especially imagining Greenie's face when she reads it... :p)

Edit: xed with Nerwen and Boro

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nerwen
Anyway, I'll vote her shortly, I guess– though I'd like some opinions on her funny little gifted-hint, as I take it to be.
Well if it was a gifted hint, I would think if G55 was a wolf she would have already come out with a stronger fake reveal than a warning about the village being harmed by their own doing.
Yes, that's what's bothering me– the fact that she *seemed* to be preparing for a reveal, and then hasn't done it, even now. (She can't be the Seer, though, at least not from my point of view.)

EDIT:X'd with G55.

[Galadriel55]

Er... you know that's the classic wolf line, right?

Didn't I already tell everyone on numerous occasions that I am one? (*imagines Boro's face* *giggles*)

I'm not "convinced". I merely find it highly likely. Naturally I still hesitate– the small numbers make it very important to lynch right toDay.

Right. That will be your excuse toMorrow, won't it? The statistics indeed make it very important for the wolves to keep the lynches away from their fellows.

Edit: xed with Nerwen

[Boromir88]

Yes, that's what's bothering me– the fact that she *seemed* to be preparing for a reveal, and then hasn't done it, even now. (She can't be the Seer, though, at least not from my point of view.)


Unless if now she realizes there would be no point to any reveal since.

G55 (4)
Nerwen (2)

With you and me left to vote. Anyone else?

[Boromir88]

Didn't I already tell everyone on numerous occasions that I am one? (*imagines Boro's face* *giggles*)


Imagine my concussion after banging it off the wall repeatedly, because I've wasted the last hour on trying to figure out this carnival act. I sure hope you're a wolf, because you won't do any good being a martyr, but as you will.

++Galadriel55

[Galadriel55]

Unless if now she realizes there would be no point to any reveal since.

Sure. What he said.

Yes, that's what's bothering me– the fact that she *seemed* to be preparing for a reveal, and then hasn't done it, even now. (She can't be the Seer, though, at least not from my point of view.)

Ahh, you almost make me regret this whole big back-and-forth.

Edit: xed with Boro... I told you, I'm having fun. And remember your own advice not to break your brains over it... :D

Edit2: *lurves being the center of attention*

[Nerwen]

Didn't I already tell everyone on numerous occasions that I am one? (*imagines Boro's face* *giggles*)
Is this a confession?

Right. That will be your excuse toMorrow, won't it? The statistics indeed make it very important for the wolves to keep the lynches away from their fellows.
No more than usual, in fact less. (I thought you were a Maths whiz?) And should you happen to turn out innocent– which is seeming less and less likely– my excuse would of course be that I thought you were probably a wolf, from your conduct. Which I do.

Unless if now she realizes there would be no point to any reveal since.

G55 (4)
Nerwen (2)

With you and me left to vote. Anyone else?
No, I think that's the lot. And you make a good point. Still, you'd think that having set things up for a reveal, a Wolf55 might have a go at it. But then, if she were a real gifted, she would surely have revealed by now too.

EDIT:X'd since Boro at #190.

[Galadriel55]

Imagine my concussion after banging it off the wall repeatedly, because I've wasted the last hour on trying to figure out this carnival act. I sure hope you're a wolf, because you won't do any good being a martyr, but as you will.

I'm really sorry to do this to you.... I told you I'm just having fun! Everyone's yelling that they're innocent; someone has to yell about being wolf. :Merisu: Well, I sure had fun in the last few minutes! :D

Countdown begins.

Edit: xed with Nerwen

[Nerwen]

Anyway–

++Galadriel55.

[Boromir88]

I'm really sorry to do this to you.... I told you I'm just having fun! Everyone's yelling that they're innocent; someone has to yell about being wolf. :Merisu: Well, I sure had fun in the last few minutes! :D

Countdown begins.


No worries. I'm sure I've caused many concussions and people theorizing about suffocating me with a pillow before too.

Edit:

...but nearing 1am. Totally getting grumpy.

[Galadriel55]

And should you happen to turn out innocent– which is seeming less and less likely– my excuse would of course be that I thought you were probably a wolf, from your conduct. Which I do.

No surprise. :)

Still, you'd think that having set things up for a reveal, a Wolf55 might have a go at it. But then, if she were a real gifted, she would surely have revealed by now too.

Oh fine..... Now if you go back and read my posts (especially toDay's, before we started arguing) you'd actually be able to figure out the outcome of the Day... If you pay attention to the right details... Though you don't really have time for that. I wrote it clearly, green on black. Just find it.

Edit: xed with Nerwen and Boro

[Galadriel55]

No worries. I'm sure I've caused many concussions and people theorizing about suffocating me with a pillow before too.

A pillow? Only a pillow?

;)

Well, you've done it, Nerwen.

Now you can go search for the clues.

[Galadriel55]

A cake of lembas for anyone who finds the information first! (and mind you no cheating, don't look at the narration before you find it or you're disqualified)

[Galadriel55]

This time is actually worth dying so early and staying up really late... I haven't laughed this much about WW for... well, since the Revels of the Reveals in Lottie's game.

Good luck with my riddle for whoever wants to solve it, and good luck to the whole village. I hope I didn't make it too messy for you.

[Galadriel55]

And I actually missed my 3000th post somewhere in this madness....

[Nerwen]

G55, if you're not just a wolf messing with our heads, you've got nothing to gloat about– you did this to yourself. And no, I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Galadriel55]

G55, if you're not just a wolf messing with our heads, you've got nothing to gloat about– you did this to yourself. And no, I have no idea what you're talking about.

I know I did this to myself. At first I kinda thought I was supposed to do it to myself, though through Night-kills. But then things got complicated, and this ended up happening a bit earlier than planned...

This would have been so much more fun if I was a wolf! Though it's fun enough as it is.

Edit: and yeah, if you can't find what I was talking about, wait for the narration, maybe it will point you to the right post... And you'll still get lembas... I'm in a good mood.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Sorry about this. I really shouldn't be this much trouble. I apologize. Thank you for not posting last twelve. In any case I'll have a narration up tomorrow, but for you...

Galadriel the Hunter was lynched. She takes Bom the Ordo with her. Enjoy Night 2.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

This was not a good cycle for the village... Sally the Seer was eaten during the night.

It is now Day.

[A Little Green]

Still nobody here? Ah well. I'll be going through Sally's posts, back with (hopefully) some ideas.

[A Little Green]

SALLY
(This is not a summary of all Sally's posts, but rather a focused analysis the purpose of which is to find out who she dreamed of.)

Boro, my prince, hold me.
My sweet prince, I've simply missed you. Don't you trust me?
Amid her loads of banter, the flirt with Boro is a recurring theme. I'm tempted to suggest that Boro is our first dreamed innocent. Mostly because I'm doubtful of whether a Seer would be so careless as to single someone out just randomly, knowing that her posts will be analysed with care once she's dead.

Won't vote:
Kath
Boro
Dun
Pitch
Greenie
Fresh Meat #1 and #2In itself, this tells us little; more can (possibly) be read in comparison to a similar list from Day 2.

Something about Elf-Warrior's analysis looks off to me. It just seems forced, or like he's trying to say something without saying it. Definitely a mark in my suspicious column. Enough for a lynch vote? I'll have to consider it.She ends up voting Elf-Warrior. Even if he wasn't known to be innocent, it would be pretty clear that Sally hadn't dreamed him yet. As he was pretty much her top suspect, though, it's very possible she dreamed him the next Night. That would also account for her expressed annoyance of him being Night-killed. Also, possibly, what led the wolves to her trail?

In the early phases of Day 2, she forcibly demands explanations for the EW kill and presents the idea of killing the ones in danger of modfire.

Based on both yesterDay's malarkey and reactions to my modfire plan toDay....

I will not vote for:
Kath
Kit
Greenie
Dun
LegateThere are a few notable differences to the previous Day's list. Firstly, Kit and Legate have made it there; Boro, however, has vanished from the list, making me doubt my original theory that he was Sally's first dream. The only ones that persist on the list are Kath and myself.

Concerning Gal's suspicion of Nerwen:
Nerwen: I was wary of the jump as well, but, well, I'll be frank. I rather suspect both of you. She then votes Gal. Again, her suspicions do not seem to be based on Night dreams. If I had to hazard a guess as to who she dreamed of the Night she was killed, I'd say it was Nerwen. This will look potentially bad for her if the wolves thought like I do; then again, if they caught her Seerishness from other stuff, they would have gone for her whether Nerwen is a wolf or not.

[Nerwen]

Well, this is going wonderfully.:rolleyes: I wonder if we can manage to avoid lynching the Ranger toDay, or will the strain prove too much?

All right, then: Sally. I don't have time right now to put together a proper analysis, with quotes and everything, but I have been reading through her posts. I think she dreamed Boro (innocent)– she seemed very positive about him in general, and at #108 she actually said to him, "I trust your judgement". I know they tend to flirt a bit, but a Seer would probably avoid saying that about an unknown.

Unfortunately, I'd say there's a very good chance her other dream was The Elf-warrior– that would explain why she was so annoyed when he was killed. The other possibility would be Kath on Night One, explaining why Sally was so ready to dismiss Kath's vote on her.

I really can't see what gave her away, unless it was one of the things I just mentioned, which aren't exactly obvious. Maybe the wolves are using my kill list now.:(

I'm afraid Sally didn't dream a wolf, or she wouldn't have been urging the lynch of the potential modfirees yesterDay. (Well, unless she dreamed one of them, but I don't think she said anything that would point to that.)

EDIT:X'd with Greenie.

[A Little Green]

Oh. I see I forgot to draw some definite conclusions. Right, so I'd say Sally dreamed
Night 1 - Inzil (forgot him in my last post, sorry!), Kath or myself since we are the ones wh persist on her "will not vote" -list; Boro would also be a possibility, but his disappearance from the "will not vote" -list somewhat downplays this theory.
and Night 2 - Elf-Warrior would be the logical conclusion since he was her top suspect, and she expressed frustration when he was Night-killed; Legate and Kit appeared on her "will not vote" -list, making them possibilities too, but I'm inclined to believe it was EW.

This wasn't very definite, though, was it? :rolleyes:


EDIT: x-ed with Nerwen

[A Little Green]

All right, then: Sally. I don't have time right now to put together a proper analysis, with quotes and everything, but I have been reading through her posts. I think she dreamed Boro (innocent)– she seemed very positive about him in general, and at #108 she actually said to him, "I trust your judgement". I know they tend to flirt a bit, but a Seer would probably avoid saying that about an unknown.

Unfortunately, I'd say there's a very good chance her other dream was The Elf-warrior– that would explain why she was so annoyed when he was killed. The other possibility would be Kath on Night One, explaining why Sally was so ready to dismiss Kath's vote on her. I see Nerwen is thinking much along the same lines as I am; also, I think the point about Kath is a good one.

It's the classic "only myself and Nerwen around" -time of day!

[Nerwen]

Greenie, I think you are putting too much stock in this "will not vote" list. I doubt it's any kind of Seer-code, since there seems to be no way of narrowing it down to less than three people.

EDIT:X'd with Greenie.

[A Little Green]

Greenie, I think you are putting too much stock in this "will not vote" list. I doubt it's any kind of Seer-code, since there seems to be no way of narrowing it down to less than three people.I agree it's unlikely to be any kind of code per se. However, I'd expect that if she had dreamed an innocent, that innocent wouldn't be one she considered to vote, and thus would be expected to appear on that list. Make sense?

[Nerwen]

Of course, you could say the same about her general statements about people– since they also seem to leave three possibilities– but that's not quite the same as leaving hints in a list.

EDIT:X'd with Greenie.

[Nerwen]

I agree it's unlikely to be any kind of code per se. However, I'd expect that if she had dreamed an innocent, that innocent wouldn't be one she considered to vote, and thus would be expected to appear on that list. Make sense?
Okay, I see what you mean now. However, that second list is prefaced by, "Based on both yesterDay's malarkey and reactions to my modfire plan toDay...." that is, I should say, "...not on my dreams..."

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

So Sally was

Day 1 - suspecting and voting EW, and posting a list of people she does not want to vote.

Day 2 - offering modfire-threatened people to be lynched. That would point at least to one thing: she most likely did NOT dream a Wolf that Night, or the previous, since then she'd have at least proposed it.

Given this, I propose her first dream was among those:
Kath
Boro
Dun
Pitch
Greenie
Fresh Meat #1 and #2I don't know about her "sweetprincing" with Boro, but it does not say anything. As it has been pointed out, Boro is not on her "will not vote for" list on next Day.

Also, there is this on next Day:

Re: Pitch: I told thee so!
What "I told thee so"? I only know her mentioning Pitch on the list. Therefore, I would dare to propose that her initial dream was actually Pitch.

Day 2 list of those she won't vote for:

Kath
Kit
Greenie
Dun
Legate
Okay, so: the only recurring names are Kath, Dun and Greenie. However, if I am right and she dreamt of Pitch first, then unless she dreamt TEW on Night 2, she could have also dreamt of a "new" person: me or Kit. The question is, whom she would be likely to dream of. I mean: reasons? Why to choose either of us? Of all I would see most probable dream to be TEW, to be honest, based on logic: I don't know if me or Kit were as "interesting". Then again, who knows what logic sally used.

I must leave for now, so I will leave you to ponder the rest of the implications and questions I have raised (see above). Will be back later, but not sure how much later.

EDIT: x-ed since Greenie's sallylysis

[A Little Green]

What "I told thee so"? I only know her mentioning Pitch on the list. Therefore, I would dare to propose that her initial dream was actually Pitch.Possible, I think. Then again, would she not have tried to defend him or vote for a more possible lynch candidate to save him?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right, then: Sally. I don't have time right now to put together a proper analysis, with quotes and everything, but I have been reading through her posts. I think she dreamed Boro (innocent)– she seemed very positive about him in general, and at #108 she actually said to him, "I trust your judgement". I know they tend to flirt a bit, but a Seer would probably avoid saying that about an unknown.
Disagreed, and see above why. Unless sally was super-hyper-covering her trail that she was dreaming of him by not putting him on her list next Day, which I don't believe she would, then Boro was most definitely NOT her dream.

Unfortunately, I'd say there's a very good chance her other dream was The Elf-warrior– that would explain why she was so annoyed when he was killed. The other possibility would be Kath on Night One, explaining why Sally was so ready to dismiss Kath's vote on her.
This makes sense, and good point about Kath too.

I really can't see what gave her away, unless it was one of the things I just mentioned, which aren't exactly obvious. Maybe the wolves are using my kill list now.:(
Don't say it twice or I will start pondering lynching you. I mean, I can see you being a Wolf and happily posting this statement. So watch it, because I am watching you. No more trust from me. I don't like it how you push that Boro was innocent, while there are rather good arguments contra. Any chance the WWs are you and Boro (and somebody)?

Oh. I see I forgot to draw some definite conclusions. Right, so I'd say Sally dreamed
Night 1 - Inzil (forgot him in my last post, sorry!), Kath or myself since we are the ones wh persist on her "will not vote" -list; Boro would also be a possibility, but his disappearance from the "will not vote" -list somewhat downplays this theory.
and Night 2 - Elf-Warrior would be the logical conclusion since he was her top suspect, and she expressed frustration when he was Night-killed; Legate and Kit appeared on her "will not vote" -list, making them possibilities too, but I'm inclined to believe it was EW.
I see we arrived to the same conclusions. However, I suggest people also ponder my Night 1 - Pitch theory. I know this "re:" stuff is not anything big, but it might be.

And now I really have to go. I have player characters in D&D to kill today (well... not really, but...).

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Possible, I think. Then again, would she not have tried to defend him or vote for a more possible lynch candidate to save him?

She tried to vote for somebody else, right? Does that count as attempt? But you are maybe right. One would have to look at the votes to see when she voted and all that. Sadly, I really have to run now. Somebody please could check it?

[Nerwen]

I'm pretty sure she didn't dream of Pitch, Legate, as she made no attempt at all to save him. "I told you so' surely refers to her own reaction to the "Pitchwaggon" (#61):

Dudes, this is messed up.

I'll be home in about fifteen minutes. Try not to go crazier, okay?
That doesn't sound to me at all like a Seer dismayed at watching her known innocent dragged to the gallows– more like an onlooker going, "What the–?"

On that note, and looking again at the voting on Day One– I realise Sally was around at the time Boro and I starting talking about voting Kath, and only pointed out "this is hardly the first time Kath has done this", which is really a pretty lukewarm defence.

I suppose you could argue that Pitch's fate was already sealed, but still, there was an hour to go and some people yet to vote.

EDIT:X'd since Legate at #215.

[Nerwen]

Don't say it twice or I will start pondering lynching you. I mean, I can see you being a Wolf and happily posting this statement.
Oh, so can I ;) – but I'm not, as it happens.

So watch it, because I am watching you. No more trust from me. I don't like it how you push that Boro was innocent, while there are rather good arguments contra.
Quite a distortion, there, Legate. I didn't "push it", I put it forward as a logical inference. Why are you "pushing" that she dreamed Pitch– which really doesn't make sense?

[Nerwen]

Legate, the point is not who is right– unfortunately, I'm not sure we *can* come to a definite conclusion– it's that, well, we've lost the Seer, the best we can do is try to glean what we can from her comments while alive. As is usual. Why try to frighten people off a particular line of reasoning? I mean, it's one thing to say, "I don't agree with you because of such-and-such", quite another to– well, honestly, you're pretty close to threatening me there. A bit excessive, surely?

[Nerwen]

Actually, Legate has been making a habit of aggressively steering the discussion away from certain topics. He did it on Day One, with his "warning vote" on TEW, and on Day Two by stepping in to end the theorising over why TEW had been killed. Not that I can't see the logic of that– after a certain point, such talk can become a waste of time and a distraction, or even a nice smokescreen for the evil side. Still, this is becoming a pattern. I don't know what it means, though– I could hardly call it a sign of lupinity, since the Legwolf I remember is a *lot* smoother and sneakier.

[Inziladun]

It seems clear that Sally had not dreamed any wolves, as both her votes were on proven innocents, and she offered up no strong suspicions on anyone else.


Okay, I see what you mean now. However, that second list is prefaced by, "Based on both yesterDay's malarkey and reactions to my modfire plan toDay...." that is, I should say, "...not on my dreams..."

I agree that we shouldn't out too much stock in Sally's "will not vote" lists. Just as her votes were obviously not based on dreams, we have no way of knowing who, if any of those in the lists were there because they dreamed, or just because of thread activity.

Regarding the question of whether Pitch was one of her dreams, I rather doubt it.

Possible, I think. Then again, would she not have tried to defend him or vote for a more possible lynch candidate to save him?
She tried to vote for somebody else, right? Does that count as attempt? But you are maybe right. One would have to look at the votes to see when she voted and all that. Sadly, I really have to run now. Somebody please could check it?

After Sally made the "This is messed up" (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=663032&postcount=61) post, Bom gave Pitch a fourth vote. When Sally returned, she made no effort at all to defend Pitch. She simply brushed aside Kath's vote for her, gave a "won't vote" list, and proceeded to vote for TEW. I really think that if she'd dreamed of Pitch, she would have made some effort to sway those who were around and still hadn't voted: herself, Boro, Nerwen, and TEW.

[Kitanna]

Conclusions on Sally
1) She suspected and voted E-W based on his analysis post. I second whoever said she probably dreamt of him on Night 2. She did seem adamant about finding out why E-W over others on Nerwen's kill-list.
2) She kept returning to that idea. I'm not sure why.
3) Her modfire idea was ill conceived and even she backed down right away. This above all else tells me she probably only dreamt ordos and no wolves. If she had put Laeko or Azura forward as a lynch candidate I could believe she dreamt one a wolf.
4) In post 151 she tells Nerwen she suspects her more than G55 (at least I believe that's who she's referring to. But she still votes G55. I think Sally wanted to dream Nerwen at this point. If Sally meant that to be a hint, it was subtle and unless the wolves expected her to be the Seer and were looking for those clues, I can't say how much that means in the long run.
She then votes Gal. Again, her suspicions do not seem to be based on Night dreams. If I had to hazard a guess as to who she dreamed of the Night she was killed, I'd say it was Nerwen. This will look potentially bad for her if the wolves thought like I do; then again, if they caught her Seerishness from other stuff, they would have gone for her whether Nerwen is a wolf or not. Obviously I'm not alone here.
5) I think Sally may have dreamt of Kath. Just based on her reaction to Kath's vote for her on Day 1. I've seen Sally get worked up over votes like that, but she was calm and didn't accuse Kath of her own Lupine activity.

[Kitanna]

I really can't see what gave her away, unless it was one of the things I just mentioned, which aren't exactly obvious. Maybe the wolves are using my kill list now.
I think the wolves lucked out. Sally says a lot without really giving anything away until her vote post.
I see Nerwen is thinking much along the same lines as I am; also, I think the point about Kath is a good one.
And I've thought along the same lines myself. I should read all the current posts instead of skimming. :rolleyes:

I'm interested in how Nerwen and Legate are going back and forth right now. Nerwen, you seem awfully jumpy about it.

[Boromir88]

Don't say it twice or I will start pondering lynching you. I mean, I can see you being a Wolf and happily posting this statement. So watch it, because I am watching you. No more trust from me. I don't like it how you push that Boro was innocent, while there are rather good arguments contra. Any chance the WWs are you and Boro (and somebody)?


I would hardly call that "pushing."

sally would be one to have some code, but whether it's too confusing for us to follow, it probably won't be worth the effort to try to figure it out. If it matters to anyone I'll try giving a crack at it. But I would prefer not to be lynched, seeing as we need wolves.

Otherwise, I'm going to be spending my time on who's a wolf to lynch and not unravelling sally's hidden code.

Usually we find the most fantastic ways to mess these games up, but I'm not too happy with the 2 known gifteds so far. These misfortunes aren't on our hands, you could have you know, been a bit more helpful?

[Inziladun]

I wanted to look at one who hasn't really been in the spotlight.

Day 1


I honestly forgot the Day had started. I thought about it five minutes ago. I'm rushing to catch up and take care of RL stuff at the same time. I'll return in...half an hourish with comments.

First post. Nothing noteworthy.

Cake, lots of cake.

Could be crazy enough to work though, depends on the wolves.


Was it you?


Rage against GoT RAGE!

These first few responses are directed at various people, including me. Again, nothing stands out.

I find the back and forth between Pitch, Boro, and Bom interesting, for reasons I have yet to decide on.
Boro:
Pitch:
These three posts are what jumped out at me.
In regards to what Boro said about Bom using jokes as a shield I think that can be said for most everyone on Day 1. I thought it was interesting Boro brought up only Bom.
I like the point Pitch made, but not because it was directed at Bom, but I think that's a good thing to keep in mind in general. Any one of these banter/ silly accusations could be easily forgotten and then built on later for good or evil. It's a stretch, but some banter shouldn't be completely discarded.

What I've seen as most interesting is Bom's defense of his jokes over the course of a few of his posts. (15 & 20 mostly). That seemed fishy to me. I shouldn't be too quick to judge though, he's not the only one to keep bringing up the joke posts. Inzil, Boro, and Pitch made more than one mention of it as well.

It seems like too easy a target to jump on. I guess at least it's circulating conversation...

She zeros in on the exchanges among Bom, Boro, and Pitch. She thought Pitch had a good point, and she didn't like the way Bom was defending his jokes. But then she decided that Bom was "too easy a target to jump on".


Gods, I must leave the game over GoT, I swear I will. *puts fingers in ears...er eyes*

I know I came late and time is short, but you explain why he's so vicious?

Next was a throwaway remark to Pitch, followed by a question to Bom over why he said Pitch was "vicious".

I read this post after making my above observations. I feel much the same way.

She then agrees with G55 that the debate over Bom and his jokes was "pointless".

I would like an explanation from Bom as well, but this seems like Pitchie got his hackles raised.

Next, she responds to Pitch, saying she wanted more from Bom as well, but apparently thought Pitch was overreacting.

(I'm sorry my post is all over the place, train of thought writing tonight I'm afraid.)
In response to this, Pitch seems reasonable enough in what he said to G55. I agreed with G55 that something more interesting could be going on, but Pitch isn't being unreasonable in saying playing the middle ground is as wolfish as anything else. I don't agree with him in this case, but I don't this is an example of him being vicious.

There she disagrees with Bom about Pitch's "viciousness".

I feel out of the Inzil, Boro, Bom, and Pitch thing, Boro speaks the most sense. I don't know how I feel about Inzil. And Bom and Pitch are at each others' throats.
Pitch makes a good point about G55 and how she is just sort of straddling the middle ground, but I don't really like how he got his hackles up when Bom called him vicious. I don't agree with Bom when he says Pitch is vicious, but his reaction was kind of alarming.
Bom is no better with getting his panties all up in a twist. He jokes, he's not the only one, bringing that up initially might have been a waste of time, but watching his reaction and others has made for interesting debate. Nerwen calls him an easy target. I don't know how true that is, but he certainly isn't doing himself any favors by getting so worked up. The more worked up he gets the more noticeable and suspicious he becomes. Wolves and innocents do this and that's why I think he's so dangerous. On the other hand Pitch is helping him stay in the spotlight and that's equally as dangerous.

Ok, so here she doesn't seem to able to make up her mind who looks the worst out of the Bom/Pitch pair. Fair enough.

On another topic Kath's vote reasoning has me worried.

I read this like Kath wants to bandwagon Sally to scare her into revealing something that may or may not be there. That seems downright dastardly to me.

Now comes a suspicion about Kath's vote, which was somewhat dodgy. The only thing I find odd about Kit's response is that she calls it "downright dastardly", which seems a pretty strong condemnation.


I need to sleep. I'm sorry I missed the Day. I wish I had more time to comment and reread.

Honestly I wish I could vote for Bom and Pitch. I feel like they're both trying to push the other into the spotlight. It's not a good deal. The other two most connected with this (Boro and Inzil) have both stepped back, but these two are dangerous in my mind.

Bom made a joke and the reactions have become the thing of debate. He's been overreacting since the start. He's building a case of a vicious Pitch who is just attacking everyone.

Pitch, I have agreed with on some of his points. I don't think he latched onto G55 as soon as she entered, but made a reasonable comment in regards to her dove on the olive branch. However this quote is the most worrying thing I've seen so far: Pitch spoke reason at times, but this seems way too suspicious. He's pulling an innocent Bom in at the same time as pushing a wolfie Bom back, if that makes sense.

This was a tough choice, but rereading Pitch's reaction to Bom's vicious comment made my mind up.

++ Pitch

Here's her vote for Pitch, which crossed with mine.
She did a fairly detailed analysis of the Bom/Pitch matter, and seemed to come out of it undecided. She says it was Pitch's reaction to Bom's "vicious" naming that swayed her in the end. That's all well and good.

I have to wonder, though, what happened to the concern over Kath being "downright dastardly"? Was that not worth a vote"

Day 2

The first three votes for Pitch came in pretty quick succession. I believe she had no idea Zil and I voted for him, just like I had no idea Zil had voted for him when I put mine down. However, Pitch was generating a lot of conversation and suspicion around him. I don't like this reasoning of "just out of spite" because Pitch wasn't just a random player who hadn't had much activity.

Dislikes G55's reasoning for voting Pitch. I can't argue with that.

She seems to have gotten confused between Pitch and Bom here. Given how much Bom's jokes were discussed that's just unbelievable to me. And then there's the aforementioned reason she gave which as far as I can tell is directed at Pitch and not a Bom reason by mistake.

Moving on, I feel like Boro speaks a lot of sense in his next posts. He makes some observations regarding Kath's vote, the way Pitch and Bom both backed down after G55's "this is pointless" post, and the Pitch bandwagon (coincidence or nefarious activity?). He's certainly the most sensible person in my opinion, which means he can't be trusted. :p

Bom votes for Pitch and that hardly comes as a surprise. I was wrong about Pitch and now I wonder how wrong I've been about Bom. I easily could have voted for him as well, now I'm going to have to examine him closer than I had the chance to before.

Thinks G55 got Bom and Pitch confused. Thinks Boro is sensible, and wonders about Bom some more.


*slap*

Sally voted for TeW because
I would like more details on this suspicion.

Boro votes for Kath, no surprise there. Nerwen does too. Nerwen gives the reason that she doesn't a universal bandwagon and Kath's vote was suspect. But in the same breath she states Kath may just not know what to do, thus defending her. When Nerwen made her reasoning post Boro was already commenting that he might vote for Kath even if it was a throwaway. Then Nerwen agrees? I don't know about that. Stop one bandwagon and attempt to start another?

I don't get Boro's "winter is coming" remark and the accompanying *slap*. I guess it's an inside joke.
Kit wants details from Sally about why she voted TEW.
She then casts some suspicion on Nerwen's vote for Kath, saying she didn't like the way Nerwen had defended Kath, then voted for her anyway.

TODAY
I'm glad Nerwen did an analysis of E-W because I wouldn't have had time to.


I feel the people listed here (Pitch excluded) deserve some looking over. Nerwen may have a point here.

Agrees with Nerwen that Legate and I should be looked at because TEW suspected us.

Mmmm

So based on yesterday's votes I think Kath, G55, and Nerwen are looking the worst now.

I stated my reasons regarding Kath in my lengthy post yesterday. Her "let's get a cornered sally to fight" reasoning was just too suspicious for me.

G55 spent a long time talking about how pointless the debate over jokes were, then she turns around a votes for one of the main players. She confuses Bom and Pitch and then makes a "I'm sorry, it was a mistake" post this morning. I don't like that either. Her actual reason for voting for Pitch (out of spite) was no better. Him and Bom had both garnered a lot of attention. I would have been surprised if neither one of them was voted for and then she makes that comment? Not very nice at all, precious.

And Nerwen. Her vote for Kath wasn't a surprise because she had said earlier it might be a possibility. But I don't like the placement of her reasoning. She says she wants to stop a universal bandwagon and because Kath's vote is suspect after Boro says he's probably voting for Kath. As I said earlier, one bandwagon for another? I don't think Kath was ever really in danger of being lynched yesterday, but Nerwen's reasoning are too convenient for my liking.

Concludes that Kath, G55, and Nerwen look the worst at that moment.

We run a lot of risk doing this. We may save ourselves too many innocent loses, but we also buy the wolves time as well. I'd rather not waste my vote on people who are in danger of modfire. I want to use my vote on someone I actually suspect. And if everyone says "well they're dead anyway" and votes like that we have no trail to follow on Day 3 where voting is concerned. It's easier to hide behind comments, but hiding behind votes is oh so much harder.

This was a response to Sally's "lynch the modfires" proposition.
I agreed with this.

I'm not crazy about this reasoning. Bandwagons like the one against Pitch can reveal a lot. He was suspicious to a number of people and everyone had a different reason. It's not like the bandwagon of possible modfires Sally suggested that leaves no traces. But more importantly I don't like that you brought up this plan after Boro. Seemed too opportunistic.

Reiterates that Nerwen's reasoning for voted Kath was suspicious.


I have clearly aligned with myself. Team Kit!

Apparently joking response to Greenie.

I have already disagreed with your plan, but if it wasn't a complete waste I would vote for them on the grounds of being inconsiderate. If you're not going to comment or vote at all wait until you can join a game where you can. /anger

Says to Sally that she still doesn't want to lynch the potential modfires, but dislikes the non-participation. Nothing really to say about that.

Someone you trusted like a fellow wolf, perhaps?

An unfocused accusation against Sally. Joking?

I missed the post by Bom. I wish I had seen that before voting yesterday. I don't know if I'd have changed my vote, but it would have given me more to consider. Bom's pretty much disappeared today and that's a shame because I wasn't done suspecting him. But I won't sit here and regurgitate what I've already said about him.

A response to Boro about Bom.

I tend to go after Sally because she makes more posts than anyone, but only about 10% or her posts have substance. So I sympathize with Kath there. But even so there are better ways to scare up a Sally than a vote. But I guess when you're pressed for time you have to work with what you got. Still...

This was to Kath, who had said why she voted for Sally. Kit seems to accept the explanation, at least partly.

Every slip of the tongue is scrutinized in WW, for better or worse. The more important suspicion for me is the fact you said you were voting for Pitch out of spite, but he'd garnered a lot of suspicion already. You cross posted so you thought you were the first to vote for him, but he had a lot of buzz and so I don't buy you "out of spite" reasoning.

That was to G55. Kit wasn't going for her defense of her Pitch vote.

I'm against protecting your lot. You're lucky you didn't really say anything yesterday.

A response to Laeko.

I got no time today. If I live until Day 3 I will be around for actual comment. I only had some time to skim and I narrowed my choices to Nerwen, G55, and Bom. For now I'm putting Kath on a watch list because I still don't like her vote reasoning. But I like the others less.

++ Bom

He hasn't said anything today...that I noticed at least. But I reread his posts and his comment about Pitch being vicious got Pitch all worked up and I used that as a reason to vote Pitch yesterday. Upon rereading his posts I find that a pretty wolfish move. It made Pitch look bad when he reacted (at least in my eyes) and kept him prevalent in people's minds. He backed off Pitch, but still voted for him. Not good at all.

And a vote for Bom. Now, I said myself that Bom not being around shouldn't necessarily stop one from voting for him, if one had a sound suspicion. She'd said earlier that Day that Kath, G55, and Nerwen were her top 3 suspects, yet went with Bom, despite lamenting that he hadn't been around.

Day 3

Conclusions on Sally
1) She suspected and voted E-W based on his analysis post. I second whoever said she probably dreamt of him on Night 2. She did seem adamant about finding out why E-W over others on Nerwen's kill-list.
2) She kept returning to that idea. I'm not sure why.
3) Her modfire idea was ill conceived and even she backed down right away. This above all else tells me she probably only dreamt ordos and no wolves. If she had put Laeko or Azura forward as a lynch candidate I could believe she dreamt one a wolf.
4) In post 151 she tells Nerwen she suspects her more than G55 (at least I believe that's who she's referring to. But she still votes G55. I think Sally wanted to dream Nerwen at this point. If Sally meant that to be a hint, it was subtle and unless the wolves expected her to be the Seer and were looking for those clues, I can't say how much that means in the long run.
Obviously I'm not alone here.
5) I think Sally may have dreamt of Kath. Just based on her reaction to Kath's vote for her on Day 1. I've seen Sally get worked up over votes like that, but she was calm and didn't accuse Kath of her own Lupine activity.

Her main conclusion is that Kath was likely Sally's Night 1 dream.

I think the wolves lucked out. Sally says a lot without really giving anything away until her vote post.

And I've thought along the same lines myself. I should read all the current posts instead of skimming. :rolleyes:

I'm interested in how Nerwen and Legate are going back and forth right now. Nerwen, you seem awfully jumpy about it.

Interested in the exchange between Legate and Nerwen, concluding that Nerwen seems "jumpy".

Well, what to say? I agree with many of the things Kit has said, and the wishy-washiness about Bom and Pitch seems understandable.

Her votes are suspect, though. She levelled such a strong accusation against Kath on Day 1, then didn't follow it up with a vote. She'd spent a lot a time on the Bom/Pitch thing, but she didn't use such firm language with either of them as she did with Kath.

And on Day 2, she votes for one who hadn't been around, Bom, when she admittedly had 3 other suspects who had been active.

Conclusion? Colour Bright Amber, verging on Red.

[Boromir88]

This is probably going to get me lynched, but whatever. The gifteds have either gone to be a martyr or left a confusing trail of dreams to follow. But, I think this can help and if it makes me more suspicious so be it.

I agree with Nerwen that the "do not vote lists" of sally's are a waste of time. Maybe a dreamed innocent or two are in there, but it's impossible to narrow the possible dreams down based soley on the "do not vote" lists.

sally might be crazy and confusing, but she's not silly enough to leave no hints and have us be totally lost. I know Greenie and Nerwen brought me up as a possible sally dream, but I really don't think so. Normally I make sense as an early dream, and sally and I do have a history. But that lover reference, Princess Bride business is pretty normal. I took it as she was trying to see if she could trust me, and her "I trust your judgement" on day 2, still comes off as she thought me innocent, but hadn't used a dream on me.

The suggestion that she dreamed of Pitch or TEW, I think is pretty weak, for reasons already stated on Pitch. After TEW was killed she said
Re: Elf-Warrior: What the heck, wolves? I really wanted to lynch him!
Even if she was suspicious of TEW on Day 1, why would she say, after he's been killed by the wolves "I really wanted to lynch him" if she dreamed of TEW night 2?

So, she had 2 dreams, and both are likely then still alive. I'm inclined to agree that she hadn't dreamed a wolf yet, just based on her votes. First for TEW (killed by wolves) and 2nd for G55 (hunter). Granted, if she did dream a wolf, she wouldn't go parading the information around in plain sight, but all of her hints are weighed towards people looking innocent.

If this gets both of you in trouble, because you know as presumed village innocent you'll suddenly become wolf meat, then I apologize to you two. But then again, there's still the Ranger who might be able to head off the wolves with this information.

I think her dreams were Kath and Kit. Sally was completely unphased by Kath's vote, and then Kath's continued suspicions the following day. We should know sally well enough to know, when she's innocent she's usually proclaiming it often and always brings up how if she's lynched the village has a history of losing. Kath's vote and suspicions she just seemed unbothered by completely (although I think this has already been said).

Now, to me this looks like an obvious hint right in front of us. Not the normal lover-behavior she displays towards me, but a rather clear and straight forward hint. Not obvious enough if we didn't know she was the seer that probably would have been spotted, but in hindisght, looks clear enough to me:

Gods, I must leave the game over GoT, I swear I will. *puts fingers in ears...er eyes*
It's nice to know at least one person who's on my side.

"know someone is on my side," it's not ambigious language like "trust" or a non-vote list of 5-6 people. (But it would explain why Kit was added onto the non-vote list later).

That's all on sally I'm doing for the day. Make of it what you will. I think her dreams were an innocent Kit and Kath.

Edit: crossed with Inzil.

[A Little Green]

Random observation: both Boro and Kath seem razor-sharp this game. I mean, even more so than usual. It's kind of scary.

[Boromir88]

Random observation: both Boro and Kath seem razor-sharp this game. I mean, even more so than usual. It's kind of scary.

I'll buy the "more so than usual" feeling, because not to sound ego-tistical, but I think I'm right about sally's dreams. But this is exactly why I debated on whether I wanted to go through her posts to even find the dreams. Come on Greenie, you know I can find the seer hints with the best of them. If I don't do it, I'm a wolf because I normally do do it. If I do it, then I'm too sharp and I must have known already sally was the seer.

It's easy to pick up the trail in hindsight if you read it carefully. And the seer has no intentions at all to be confusing or misleading, it's just a process of following her votes and what sally posted. She wouldn't have dreamed of people she voted for (and it's pretty clear from her first post on Day 2 she didn't dream of TEW). She wouldn't put known dreamed wolves in her non-vote list, but would include dreamed innocents. I can assume well enough she didn't dream of me, because her trust was based upon my posts and judgement. She made no attempt to save Pitch.

Limit the options left and open your eyes to comments she made towards specific people and it's clear as day. Not to get all uptight, but this sort of stuff irks me. I'm not razor-sharp, I'm not brilliant, I'm following what's right in front of you.

[Inziladun]

"know someone is on my side," it's not ambigious language like "trust" or a non-vote list of 5-6 people. (But it would explain why Kit was added onto the non-vote list later).

That's all on sally I'm doing for the day. Make of it what you will. I think her dreams were an innocent Kit and Kath.

I suppose that's a possibility for Sally's dreams, but I think it's a reach where Kit is concerned. That "on my side" comment just looks to me like an throwaway remark.

[Nerwen]

I'll buy the "more so than usual" feeling, because not to sound ego-tistical, but I think I'm right about sally's dreams. But this is exactly why I debated on whether I wanted to go through her posts to even find the dreams. Come on Greenie, you know I can find the seer hints with the best of them. If I don't do it, I'm a wolf because I normally do do it. If I do it, then I'm too sharp and I must have known already sally was the seer.

It's easy to pick up the trail in hindsight if you read it carefully. And the seer has no intentions at all to be confusing or misleading, it's just a process of following her votes and what sally posted. She wouldn't have dreamed of people she voted for (and it's pretty clear from her first post on Day 2 she didn't dream of TEW). She wouldn't put known dreamed wolves in her non-vote list, but would include dreamed innocents. I can assume well enough she didn't dream of me, because her trust was based upon my posts and judgement. She made no attempt to save Pitch.

Limit the options left and open your eyes to comments she made towards specific people and it's clear as day. Not to get all uptight, but this sort of stuff irks me. I'm not razor-sharp, I'm not brilliant, I'm following what's right in front of you.
Mmmn, well, I think Sally could have done with being a lot less ambiguous. I certainly hope you are right that she didn't dream TEW. (My thinking was that she made that comment about wanting to lynch him because at that point she didn't need to hint at his role, since he was dead.)

Regarding Kath: the argument in favour of her being the Night One dream is obvious. However, Sally didn't really react that much when there was talk of voting Kath on Day One, which is bugging me a bit. It may be simply that it never seemed that Kath was in real danger.

Although, I'd say Sally *herself* could have swung the lynch Kath's way, had she wanted to– which should be a final nail in the coffin of Legate's Pitch-theory.

Regarding which: look, I don't know what to make of Legate. On the one hand, he's been promoting a theory of events which would be most convenient for the evil side– i.e. that both Sally's dreams are already dead– and which even a quick look over the end of Day One should have discounted. On the other, he's certainly not acting anything like he normally does as a wolf. Thoughts?

[Kath]

Interjection of unhelpful real life: Just popping in for a moment. I'm in the midst of moving house and may not have reliable internet after the next 45 minutes. If I definitely can't get on I'll call my sister and ask her to let you all know. Hopefully all will be fine though! :)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I can't fully concentrate right now, so this post will be just short in regards to what I have seen...

Re: Nerwen: Sorry for sounding perhaps a bit aggressive, it was more like a threat in the way that I am not trusting my own shadow anymore. As for proposing "ridiculous" Pitch-dreamt of - theory, I did not connect the sally's comment with his lynching. Yet I still believe he was a possible dream, and certainly at least as logical as your Boro theory, or in fact, more: I repeat, Boro was not at Sally's trust-list on the second day. If she dreamt of him, that'd be a really poor Seer-job, illogical thing to do anyway (no reason to switch your opinions on innocents even if you e.g. wanted to hide yourself).

Otherwise, I am becoming more and more suspicious of Boro: he is really acting incredibly "Agreeable" in his later posts. As innocent, he is usually far more inquisitive, and really now he just is sort of honey-tongued. I could consider him for my vote.

Will be back later.

[Nerwen]

Re: Nerwen: Sorry for sounding perhaps a bit aggressive, it was more like a threat in the way that I am not trusting my own shadow anymore.
But you understand that I put forward that theory *before* Greenie pointed out the anomaly of Boro's being left off the list the second Day?

Yet I still believe he was a possible dream, and certainly at least as logical as your Boro theory, or in fact, more: I repeat, Boro was not at Sally's trust-list on the second day.
Hang-on– you still believe it now? Have you read the counter-arguments, Legate?

[A Little Green]

I'll buy the "more so than usual" feeling, because not to sound ego-tistical, but I think I'm right about sally's dreams. But this is exactly why I debated on whether I wanted to go through her posts to even find the dreams. Come on Greenie, you know I can find the seer hints with the best of them. If I don't do it, I'm a wolf because I normally do do it. If I do it, then I'm too sharp and I must have known already sally was the seer.Hmmn. I think I called you scary, not suspicious, but the fact that you immediately thought I did is either very interesting, or else just means I need to learn to express myself more clearly.


EDIT: x-ed with Nerwen

[Boromir88]

Otherwise, I am becoming more and more suspicious of Boro: he is really acting incredibly "Agreeable" in his later posts. As innocent, he is usually far more inquisitive, and really now he just is sort of honey-tongued. I could consider him for my vote.


Really? You keep saying I'm being Mr. Agreeable, but seriously, are you even reading my posts? What about them is so "agreeable?" The fact that I'm not being a big enough pain, jumping around like a madman demanding everyone listen to me? Sorry to disappoint you, but I see no point in going off half-cocked, all but begging to be lynched.

I'm going to fight my need of getting the last word to prove something. If you want to reply, go for it, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm not getting into a flame war with you. If you find me suspicious, so be it, but you better bring the suspicions instead of this baseless Mr. Agreeable business. Maybe I should question your innocence more, but right now it won't do any good, to let the frustration get in the way of a fair Legate-analysis. But if you are innocent, I'm no longer listening nor trusting your opinion.

Hmmn. I think I called you scary, not suspicious, but the fact that you immediately thought I did is either very interesting, or else just means I need to learn to express myself more clearly.

Be clearer then or don't back away and act like you meant nothing by it. Scary is like saying weird, strange, and odd. All words that are meant to convey someone acting suspicious, but scary sounds more of a serious suspicion. At least that's how I interpret it.

It gets me frustrated when I think it's mostly innocent intention driving it. Because we get so clouded by it all it leads to is both of us putting on blinders, getting angry and innocents lynching innocents. I guess it's the pains of the reputation, to want to be trusted, but everyone knows you're capable of straight out manipulation.

Rest assured, I am done getting bothered by all this, upcoming is the analysis I on Inzil I started yesterday, but got distracted by a hunter going off the deep end.

[A Little Green]

Be clearer then or don't back away and act like you meant nothing by it. Scary is like saying weird, strange, and odd. All words that are meant to convey someone acting suspicious, but scary sounds more of a serious suspicion. At least that's how I interpret it.

It gets me frustrated when I think it's mostly innocent intention driving it. Because we get so clouded by it all it leads to is both of us putting on blinders, getting angry and innocents lynching innocents. I guess it's the pains of the reputation, to want to be trusted, but everyone knows you're capable of straight out manipulation.All right. We interpret the word 'scary' differently. I refuse to start an argument over something like this. If that means I'm 'backing off', then fine, maybe I am.

[Kitanna]

I feel like Legate is going around pushing buttons today.
What "I told thee so"? I only know her mentioning Pitch on the list. Therefore, I would dare to propose that her initial dream was actually Pitch.
He is continually coming back to this point that Sally dreamt of Pitch. I'm trying to avoid just repeating what has already been said, but I want to know why he's clinging to this? Sally had it in her power to swing the votes toward Kath and attempt to save Pitch, but she didn't. Essentially she did a throw away vote on TEW.
Don't say it twice or I will start pondering lynching you. I mean, I can see you being a Wolf and happily posting this statement. So watch it, because I am watching you. No more trust from me. I don't like it how you push that Boro was innocent, while there are rather good arguments contra. Any chance the WWs are you and Boro (and somebody)?
This is where I first noticed he was pushing buttons. He accuses Nerwen of pushing Boro as the dream because they're packmates.
I see we arrived to the same conclusions. However, I suggest people also ponder my Night 1 - Pitch theory. I know this "re:" stuff is not anything big, but it might be.
But he keeps pushing Pitch. Which is just as suspicious as pushing the living Boro. Here's how I view this:
1) Legate's theory/threat/suspicion isn't without merit. Wolf Nerwen wants the village to trust wolf Boro.
2) Wolf Nerwen is trying to align herself with an innocent. This tactic rarely works in the longrun, but it may buy her time.
3) Wolf Legate doesn't want the village to trust anyone. One known or commonly trusted innocent means one less possible innocent lynch candidate.

In his next post he continues to defend his Pitch theory based on the fact Sally didn't vote for him. But he also says:But you are maybe right. One would have to look at the votes to see when she voted and all that.
He backtracks when Greenie says something about Sally's votes.

I am not trusting my own shadow anymore.
This "throwaway" comment makes me think Legate is trying to convince us he's a lost and confused innocent.
As for proposing "ridiculous" Pitch-dreamt of - theory, I did not connect the sally's comment with his lynching. Yet I still believe he was a possible dream, and certainly at least as logical as your Boro theory, or in fact, more: I repeat, Boro was not at Sally's trust-list on the second day.
He keeps pushing Pitch. I think he's trying to make Sally's "won't vote" list more important than it was. I mean she only had two dreams before dying. Most of that list was speculation on her part, as much as anyone else's.
Otherwise, I am becoming more and more suspicious of Boro: he is really acting incredibly "Agreeable" in his later posts. As innocent, he is usually far more inquisitive, and really now he just is sort of honey-tongued. I could consider him for my vote.
I don't think so. Boro's playing intelligently, but I wouldn't call it agreeable. I think Boro is less suspicious of being agreeable and more suspicious for arguing over the meaning of words. (Ex: Legate's use of agreeable and Greenie's use of scary).

[A Little Green]

I hate to go to sleep just when things are getting interesting, but unfortunately it's past midnight again. I hope to be able to do some serious rereading toMorrow if I'm still alive; for now, I think I'll go for

++ Nerwen

again. Nothing she has said has made me change my impression of her. Additionally, Sally suspected her late on Day 2. No, I'm not saying she was dreamed of; I think it's pretty obvious that she was not. But the thing is, Sally wasn't, at least in my mind, an obviously Seer-looking Seer. So if the wolves had a few options, it seems plausible that they'd go for the possible Seer that was most likely to dream one of them the next Night. Not sure if I'm making sense, but whether I am or not it's still bed time for me.

[Kitanna]

I've voiced other concerns about Nerwen. And she hasn't sad anything today to lessen those concerns.

First here's this last minute post from Day 2.
G55, if you're not just a wolf messing with our heads, you've got nothing to gloat about– you did this to yourself. And no, I have no idea what you're talking about.
Who's gloating here? I suspected G55 heavily, but I didn't rub her trip to the gallows in her face either.
"I trust your judgement". I know they tend to flirt a bit, but a Seer would probably avoid saying that about an unknown.
Here she puts Boro forward. I laid out my theories on this in my post about Legate. I see no reason to revisit it again so soon.

Maybe the wolves are using my kill list now.
She's made a few lamenting comments. Including one about us not lynching the Ranger today. This seemingly harmless comment about innocence seems forced. Her "kill-list" was the subject of a few posts, it didn't dominate the day like Bom/Pitch's joke argument.

She had some back and forth with Greenie. "Don't put too much stock in the 'won't vote' list" etc.

Okay, I see what you mean now. However, that second list is prefaced by, "Based on both yesterDay's malarkey and reactions to my modfire plan toDay...." that is, I should say, "...not on my dreams..."
I think at least one of Sally's dreams was on her list and I think that's safe to assume. I'm not sure why Nerwen isn't at least considering the list as an angle. She seems deadset against wanting to use it as a clue. It's not the best idea to base everything around it, but given who is on it and what Sally said about them I think something can be gleaned.

She argues against Legate's Pitch theory. A sensible post without any warning bells for me.

Quite a distortion, there, Legate. I didn't "push it", I put it forward as a logical inference. Why are you "pushing" that she dreamed Pitch– which really doesn't make sense?
Legate, the point is not who is right– unfortunately, I'm not sure we *can* come to a definite conclusion– it's that, well, we've lost the Seer, the best we can do is try to glean what we can from her comments while alive. As is usual. Why try to frighten people off a particular line of reasoning? I mean, it's one thing to say, "I don't agree with you because of such-and-such", quite another to– well, honestly, you're pretty close to threatening me there. A bit excessive, surely?
This next post is what really worries me. Legate hadn't said anything so I think this could be something she thought of after posting her last comment. However, this seemed like a big overreaction after she seemed to shrug off Legate's "threat" in the previous post.
Actually, Legate has been making a habit of aggressively steering the discussion away from certain topics. He did it on Day One, with his "warning vote" on TEW, and on Day Two by stepping in to end the theorising over why TEW had been killed. Not that I can't see the logic of that– after a certain point, such talk can become a waste of time and a distraction, or even a nice smokescreen for the evil side. Still, this is becoming a pattern. I don't know what it means, though– I could hardly call it a sign of lupinity, since the Legwolf I remember is a *lot* smoother and sneakier.
Again, no response from Legate, just continued attack on him. She's jumping all over him, but at the end she recants and says he's not being smooth enough to be of the lupine persuasion.

Regarding Kath: the argument in favour of her being the Night One dream is obvious. However, Sally didn't really react that much when there was talk of voting Kath on Day One, which is bugging me a bit. It may be simply that it never seemed that Kath was in real danger.
I think Kath may well have been the Night 1 dream so this could be my own prejudice talking, but Nerwen seems to want to use sally's lukewarm defense as a reason why Kath couldn't be the dream. Nerwen has stated she sees merit in the belief Kath was the dream, but is bugged by Sally's reaction. On Day 1 how much would Sally really want to reveal about what she knew? If Kath was the dream I don't see Sally jumping over and declaring Kath innocent outright.

On the other, he's certainly not acting anything like he normally does as a wolf. Thoughts?
Again she points fingers at Legate, but backs off within the next sentence.

Hang-on– you still believe it now? Have you read the counter-arguments, Legate?
She continues to fight the Pitch-dream theory.

Like I said earlier in post 151 Sally says she suspects Nerwen more than G55. I think she wanted to dream of Nerwen. It seems a stretch that the wolves killed Sally because they saw this as a seer hint, but maybe they didn't like her sniffing around their packmate.

Right now Legate and Nerwen are highest on my list.

[Nerwen]

Given that Greenie has just voted me, this may seem like a retaliation– but it's not that, in fact I'm not saying it has to point at Greenie herself being evil, but it is rather curious.

As has been said, Sally doesn't seem to have said anything that screamed "Seer!" Her lists, for example, are nothing like the hinting lists some Seers make.

Greenie, on the other hand, posted this yesterDay:
#98.
A quick list, based more on feeling than fact since I don't have time to reread as much as I'd wish.

Legate - Feels fine this far.
Sally - Undecided about her. Like I said, she underlines her own innocence in a suspicious way, but reacted to Kath's vote in a relatively innocent way.
Inzil - Bad feeling. Couldn't pinpoint it right now, I'm sure I'd find a reason for the feeling if I reread his posts.
Kath - Good vibes.
Kitanna - Really sharp, not sure about her alignment though!
Bom - Undecided. Initial reaction was "suspicious!", after which I remembered I always think that whatever his role. So a questionmark for now.
Nerwen - Somewhat suspicious because, as stated before, she urged the Pitchwaggon on but backed off when it actually began.
G55 - Good and bad vibes at the same time! Another I'd love to reread.
Boro - Nothing alarming this far.
Azura - Still not around, right?
Laeko_Randalis - Couldn't say.

I think this actually looks more like a coded list than anything Sally posted– note all the "undecideds" and "not sure about alignments". It is true that only one person (Kath) is in the "good vibes" category, but Seers don't always list the people they know of together– too much of a giveaway– and I'd accept Legate's being "fine this far" as a near-equivalent.

I'm just wondering why the wolves bit on Sally instead.

EDIT:X'd with Kitanna.

[Kath]

Alright, well, internet is ok but it took a lot longer than anticipated so I'm only around the next 15 minutes. Won't have time to really look at people properly as a result so analysis won't be as detailed as yesterDay. Probably going to have to look just at toDays posts and then vote.

I won't be voting for anyone who hasn't posted yet toDay (if there is anyone) as again I think that's unfair.

Greenie - guessing sally's Night 3 dream is fairly pointless as sally can't have told us anything about whoever she dreamt of but good reasoning behind who it might have been. Dreaming possibilities: Boro (then recants it), Inzil, Kath, herself, TEW. That 'razor-sharp' comment could be suspicion or could be digging for a reaction or could be compliment! Votes Nerwen based on previous reasons and based on the idea that the wolves would try to protect WolfNerwen by killing SeerSally. Rather assumes the wolves had figured out sally was the Seer despite her just saying that sally wasn't an obvious Seer.

Nerwen - Dreaming possibilities: Boro, TEW, Kath. Thinks people like Inzil and Greenie are less likely dreams as they are based only on the 'will not vote' list. Am inclined to agree, there is subtle and there is opaque! Like the catch on sally seeming to say her ideas came from the thread alone. Argues dreaming of Pitch with some fair points. That said, if she did dream of him and knew he was innocent rather than Gifted, the danger in trying to save him would be the possibility of pushing someone into the lynch she did not know the role of, and that person ending up Gifted.

Legate - puts credence in the 'will not vote' list. I think the 'I told thee so' with Pitch is interesting. It's a particularly separate sentence, apart from anything else, short and sharp. Could well be the result of a dream. Disagrees with Nerwen (and from a quick read through this seems to continue) about Boro. Here I think we are going to see the effect of one person taking the 'will not vote' list as evidence of dreams and one person not doing so. His statement about not trusting Nerwen was rather aggressively phrased. 'Push' is a very strong term for what Nerwen said about Boro.

Inzil - I can see again what Inzil is saying about sally not trying to save Pitch if she had dreamt of him. The timing is interesting though. After 4 votes for Pitch, a sudden blast of defence from sally wouldn't exactly have been a good way of trying to stay hidden! Some interesting points about Kitanna. She is often voting against her previous posts. Or well, not so much against as she is showing suspicion of the people she is voting for, but that those she votes for don't appear to be her top suspects prior to the vote.

Kitanna - Dreaming possibilities: TEW and Kath. Thinks Nerwen is quite jumpy. Well, yes, but as noted Legate was pretty aggressive. Asks Legate why he holds on to his Pitch theory. Well there are arguments against it but I think there are arguments for it as well. Again, it depends whether or not you use the 'not vote' list as evidence.

Boro - I ... don't get his post. I know Boro can often be a player who really shows his frustration, but he seemed to take that comment from Legate as an attack against him when really it was directed at Nerwen. Sure Legate mentioned suspicion of Boro but the reason for the suspicion was down to Nerwen's aforementioned 'pushing' (that wasn't). It's this whole 'this is probably going to get me lynched' attitude that is throwing me. Is that because he was about to argue against the theory that he had been dreamt of and thus try to disprove his own potential known innocent status? That said, he then comes up with some really interesting thoughts about the dreams. I hadn't thought about TEW being unlikely if sally still wanted to lynch him the next Day. I think we all need to start putting some sort of glossary up explaining exactly what we mean by certain words! After mine and Boro's 'Pitch-wagon' debate yesterDay and now this one with him and Greenie over 'scary'. :rolleyes:

Right, posting this, then voting.

[Nerwen]

Kitanna, in everything that you've quoted, I'm just expressing honest doubt. I tend to second-guess myself and find counter-arguments to my own arguments. I'm just like that.

And with the Legate– thing– well, yeah, first I shrugged it off, then I started thinking about how peculiar he was being. That's all.

EDIT:X'd with Kath.

[Kath]

Based on that those I would consider voting would be:

Greenie - For such a flip floppy Nerwen vote. Either sally was an obvious Seer who the wolves were afraid would dream of NerwenWolf, or sally was not an obvious Seer. I just don't think you can have it both ways.

Legate - For that very aggressive tone early on. He has pulled it back but it has been commented on toDay that since doing so he has then tried to portray himself a little as a confused innocent. He may very well be that of course, it's just the slide into that after that very confident start that seems odd.

Boro - For changing from fairly calm, considered Boro to angry!frustrated!argumentative! Boro all in one go. Could be the result of the loss of two Gifteds and therefore his attempt to play more calmly went out the window. Or he's a wolf who has stopped being so bothered about keeping a calm cover after the loss of two Gifteds.

Because I feel my reasoning for Greenie is less so-so than for the others:

++GREENIE

And to bed.

NOTE: Will have crossposted with everyone since my last but one post.

[Boromir88]

Day 1

Gave a pretty cautious, and luke-warm Inzil impression on Day 1. Not involved aside from doing a few IC posts about the guide (and suspecting Pitch because Pitch said Inzil was harping on the guide).

This is perhaps Inzil's most substantial post of Day 1.

Kath's vote seems a bit odd, true, but I can posit an innocent reason behind it, as well as the obvious evil throwaway potential.

The way Pitch latched onto G55 as soon as she appeared is a bit jarring. Would an evil Pitch be so obvious, though?

And Legate Voting TEW as a "warning vote". I get his point about TEW, but that seems like a rather extreme "warning".

Meh. I apologize for being useless toDay. If I'm around, I'll do my best to make it up Day 2.

There was the accusation of me "harping' about the guide being partly responsible for our predicament (which I mentioned in only two halfhearted IC posts). Then his interactions with Bom, followed by the sudden switching of targets to G55.

He admits to feeling useless for the day, but still seemed detached, or as if he didn't care where the lynch went. Not sure if I can explain it well...but just the "Let me give a few names, say some wishy-washy suspicions, and vote. And again, to point out, at this time he made the Pitch vote, thinking that it would be the 1st vote for Pitch.

Day 2

Now, back from Day 1, Inzil had said he'd be better. Fairy nuff not going to fault someone for being busy and rushed. Also, TEW did vote for Inzil (which reminds me Legate argued for a possible frame job against Inzil).

First off, sorry about that, Pitch. He was the only one I really had anything on, even though, as I said, I had some doubts about his lupinity. The two votes for him coming so hot on the heels of mine was rather freaky.

Not much time for much of toDay, sadly. I'll get on when I can, though.

I believe this was the main reason for Kath voting Inzil, yesterday, yes? The apology does raise a wolf flag. Not really the "Sorry Pitch" part, but he seems to be trying really hard to convince us he didn't mean it "as I said, I had some doubts about his lupinity." Then deflects away from his vote, by reminding about the two votes that quickly followed.

I think this more likely than a desire for a trailless kill, as there would seem to have been more choices who left a lot less to be analyzed than TEW.
His response to Nerwen, who had suggested TEW was killed as a possible frame job and TEW's general behavior seemed possibly gifted. Not sure if this tells us anything about Inzil, but Legate, are you sure you still want to call me the aggreeable one?

I concur. The Pitch votes (and yes, that includes mine) should naturally be our focus, I think.

Why did I vote for him? I said so here and here.

Kitanna's and G55;s x/d with mine. Over an hour later, Bom came in with his, and sealed Pitch's fate.

G55 has said hers was "out of spite". Since it led to his lynch, that would seem an especially questionable reason.

Kit's was better reasoned.

Bom's, by virtue of the timing, and the somewhat intense interactions between him and Pitch, might look the worst.

Responding to Legate, and huh agreeing with Legate, that the Pitch votes should be the focus and not why TEW was killed. And the inclusion of "(and yes, that includes mine)" looks out of place. Why make sure we remember Inzil is including his own vote?

His next couple posts are a few comments on the mod-fire rule and game mechanics. Nothing that would seem to tell us anything about him

But in #157, led me to wanting to have a closer look at Inzil yesterday:

I wouldn't say I "backtracked", though I did feel bad for voting him. It seems I always end up suspecting him and he's never guilty.
That was his reply to Kath, who said Inzil apologized for his Pitch vote. He disagrees, but really what would you call "as I said, I had some doubts about his lupinity," then?

I think Nerwen looks more shiny than G55 at the moment. Also feeling rather good about Kit.

Boro is up to something. Good? Evil? Meh.

Legate seems to be his genuine innocent self.

Greenie seems sharp somehow. Not really sure what I mean by that, but she makes sense and gives me pause at the same time.

Some more general comments and feelings about people. All pretty non-commital, feels good about some. I have no idea what the "Boro is up to something. Good? Evil? Meh." statement was supposed to mean.

#164, tells Legate, he likes what he sees from Laeko, but not enough to declare innocent. And says he'd be in favor of Bom if voting Bom was possible, but the day would look like it was coming down to Nerwen and G55.

#169, he decides he could vote for G55 "based on what Nerwen says" (if that doesn't look like a set up statement, then I don't look smashing in a Tux), but also...

...as well as the fact that she was involved in the Pitch-wagon yesterDay (along with, coincidentally, I'm sure, Bom ). It's hard for me to believe no wolves were involved with that.

Nerwen points out that Inzil was also involved in the Pitch-wagon and one of his replying comments just seemed unnecessary:

And to be accurate, I started the Pitch-wagon.

I said this wouldn't be something I would be very proud of, and Inzil clarified, he wasn't proud, but stating fact. Still, the statement looks unnecessary, but it was prompted by Nerwen reminding Inzil was also in the Pitch-voters. I don't think I explained it clearly yesterday, and probably can't clarify much better today. But, why feel the need to say this unless, you Inzil, were getting nervous Nerwen was suspecting you for being in the Pitch voters. Yet, still trying to appear unbiased because you were the one who "started" it.

From Day 2 then, continued non-commital towards nearly everyone. Except on Day 1 he picked Pitch (then apologized for it next day) and Day 2, he seemed mostly focused on Bom until realizing Bom would be a throw away vote. And Bom conveniently wasn't there to challenge or answer Inzil suspecting him.

I stand by what I said yesterday, that Inzil is certainly better and more involved than what he's been showing. And in some ways he's looked nervous when Nerwen pointed out he was in the Pitch-wagon, when Kath said he back-tracked on his Pitch vote. And really Legate, you say my posts are aggreeable?

Haven't thoroughly read his post on Kitanna today, will go do that after supper.

[Boromir88]

I don't think so. Boro's playing intelligently, but I wouldn't call it agreeable. I think Boro is less suspicious of being agreeable and more suspicious for arguing over the meaning of words. (Ex: Legate's use of agreeable and Greenie's use of scary).

Fairy nuff (and to Kath's latest posts which I crossed with). Nothing really frustrates me more about this, than being suspected with unexplained and vague statements. I used to be able to ignore it because they were never really serious, but lately seems like you can easily get lynched if someone says you look scary or are "up to something." It just leaves me to throw my hands up, like sorry, what do you want me to do about always being up something?

And Greenie, glad you don't want to get into the semantics. If I was coming off as bullish, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to. I was trying to expresss the frustration, while also saying if you suspect me, then suspect me. Because I know you're better than that to give me a fair chance to defend suspicions.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

But you understand that I put forward that theory *before* Greenie pointed out the anomaly of Boro's being left off the list the second Day?
That as well might be, but the point is that you still keep holding to it even up to now. No considering of the anomaly still, then?

And okay, I really don't want to keep us picking in this any more, but in order to respond:
Hang-on– you still believe it now? Have you read the counter-arguments, Legate?
Which ones? In what you replied to, I was no longer talking about Pitch. I had said already by then that it is possible, not a 100% truth (and I never said that, I mean, who would), and from almost the beginning, I was saying that it is not as much ("that re: thing not being so much, BUT it being a possibility"), what I said later was only that I still think it more probable than your Boro theory. And that's what I was talking about, not about Pitch: I was saying that the Boro theory makes no sense, in my book. I mean, yes, it was not any "hello, these people are innocent:" list, but it was still a Seer's list, almost the only thing she had said ever about people in some ordered way, it seems obvious to me she had not dreamt a wolf at any point, and if I was a Seer, I definitely would not omit the possibility to list my known innocents on the lists of people I trust. Why should I not? What would I lose by that? So unless Sally acted completely illogically here (which is possible, but I would rather hope not), then Boro is not an option for the dreamed innocent for me.

Really? You keep saying I'm being Mr. Agreeable, but seriously, are you even reading my posts? What about them is so "agreeable?" The fact that I'm not being a big enough pain, jumping around like a madman demanding everyone listen to me? Sorry to disappoint you, but I see no point in going off half-cocked, all but begging to be lynched.
Boro! Now if you are innocent, what kind of a behavior is that? Suddenly you totally jumped out at me after I said that you are too agreeable. What should I think now, that you did so because I warned you that you are acting too agreeable?

Okay, maybe this jump is genuine, after I have read it twice. But yes, you are being Mr. Agreeable, that is a fact. You've been rather un-conflict-y until very recently, you have been responding to posts (also in the earlier days a few times) which I would have expected you to retaliate to with rather random wave of your hand, if ever. Anyway however, that is not a crime. I confess that probably my judgement of you was also partially clouded by considering Nerwen's peculiar pedantry on you being innocent really suspicious in the sense that you two could be packmates. But all right, what then?

If Boro looks better now when I look back, that also means that if he is innocent, surely Nerwen won't be "defending" him if she was a Wolf. If I am willing to admit that Nerwen's thinking was just that of a differently thinking innocent, then of course there is a lot more to ponder.

I could of course make a complete 180° and turn to what has been troubling me since the start (or since sometime yesterDay anyway), but which I kept shrugging of as complete paranoia: the thinking that Kath and/or Greenie and somebody else (? Kit ?). I mean: if Nerwen is not a Wolf, then I could expect that the Wolves are fueling the Nerwenwaggon or messing around with the general public opinions and feelings, and in that case, it could possibly be Greenie (voting Nerwen), or again Kath, when she debates with herself about the issues with me and Nerwen and everyone, that could be interpreted also in the way of somehow adding small pieces of fuel to the general fires. Kit could be the same with her Nerwelysis (which, however, in some ways seems bringing rather good points and notices, it is only at some points sort of "dragging Nerwen down" along, but then again, analysis is analysis... if there is something negative-looking, you have to mention it). Of course, one would have hard time thinking that these two are packmates, with Kath voting Greenie. In any case, Kath still seems rather reasonable in her actions and with the pondering in her latter lists, and it would be rather a bit of paranoia that would bring me to consider her. But then again, at this stage of the game, everything is a paranoia.

At least for me, so yes, if you wish, call it a confused innocent. And especially toDay has been somewhat distracting for me.

Still, if I look at it, there are still most things which are unsettling about Nerwen. The Boro thing is not one of those I would vote her for, though: at least not unless I have a proof that Boro is her packmate. It is more like a puzzling thing. Although of course if one is a Wolf, it often happens that if your opinion appears faulty, it is better to still hold to it so that you don't lose credit - not sure if Nerwen especially would operate on this basis, though. Does not really strike me as that kind of player. Or maybe yes? But the way she reacted to some stuff is still unsettling, even if I put this away. And now what I found also strange was the last list about Greenie she posted, as it seems totally "what the Angband is that?" I mean, are you saying that Greenie's post looks more like a Seer list than Sally's and therefore Greenie should've been killed, and since she was not, it proves she was a Wolf? Weird.

And I am once again completely missing Azura and Laeko - who haven't been very talkative (though as I recall Laeko posted yesterday quite innocentishly).

Probably x-ed with a lot... and sorry for the novels. Also should vote soon-ish, preferrably.

EDIT: x-ed with some Boro

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Basically: I either must say that we have a village full of Werewolves, or that there is none. Depending what threshold I set on my "Wolf-detector". If I set it too low and ignore everything with saying "yes, this was probably meant well, it only sounds weird", I end up with no WWs at all. If I set it too high, I can just as well end up with suspecting everyone. It certainly should not work that way.

Where the detector "beeps" the first now is probably Nerwen. However there are many "but"s, still it probably is the closest to what I would call "suspicious" right now. The biggest "but" probably is: But why would she act like she does if she was a Wolf? I mean - it is not very "professional", to get jumpy, to make seemingly illogical claims about who was or was not dreamt of... maybe one could think about inventing fake suspicions of people based on stuff like "because she is still alive and it seems to me that she looked like a Seer, she must be evil", but that's a bit weird too, also, it might have been possibly retaliatory - in the "good" sense - an innocent replying in affectu (it can influence you even if you don't actually realise that). You can explain everything positively or negatively, the question is where you draw the line.

One could also ask: so what are the Wolves like now? Are they calm and collected (Kath? Greenie?), or are they somehow frustrated and jumpy - now they shouldn't be, should they, they are in rather good spot now - unless they are being suspected (Nerwen? Boro?). By the way, if there is no Wolf among these four, I call upon the powers of the Valar so that you choose to lynch me instead so that I cannot do any more harm. But on a more serious note, I really need to make a decision and Nerwen probably looks the lowest in the "beep" field, like I said. Unless... unless it happens to be the very same thing like the last two Days - in other words, just another bandwagon. Hm, I think I know what I will do now: I need to take a look at the two Days' voting lists again. Now with considering all the different possibilities, maybe there is something I forgot.

[Boromir88]

Boro! Now if you are innocent, what kind of a behavior is that? Suddenly you totally jumped out at me after I said that you are too agreeable. What should I think now, that you did so because I warned you that you are acting too agreeable?

I'm more thinking just different meanings. By agreeable I assume you meant I was mimicking what people were saying, which to me, is flat out untrue. Sounds like though you say I'm coming off as "Mr. Nice Guy" though? Trying to sweet talk people with calmness.

Granted, I haven't been as bull-headed as I can be, but that side tends to come out when things really become desperate. But that normally leads to greater frustration and just getting the "ahh screw it/hopeless" attitude.

You will probably say this makes me agreeable, but I do admit to not giving any substantial look at Nerwen. That mostly comes from a history of being unable to figure her out and then flat out fear. My general impression, based on yesterday, is that G55 was acting like a loon and I can't find suspicion against Nerwen for that carnival show. G55 did a good job making people think she was a wolf. And also, because of G55's eratic behavior, it put Nerwen in a defensive position, which has carried over to the suspicion today.