The Hobbit Movie Trailer!

[Valesse]

Greetings fellow Downers!
It's been quite a while, but I come with good news! I'm sure we've all had our pointy little ears to the floor about this - some more so than others - but here it is! The first of many.

YouTube: The Hobbit Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0k3kHtyoqc&feature=g-all-lik&context=G254c34cFAAAAAAAADAA)

Enjoy Responsibly! ; )

[Mister Underhill]

My secret hope for this trailer, to say nothing of the film itself, is that it rouses a few slumbering wights and draws them from their barrows to caper on the Downs once more...

[piosenniel]

I'm dusting off the Hobbit costume I wore to the first LotR movie and sticking my old One Ring in my pocketses!!

Loved the Dwarven song . . . can't wait to see the Eagles . . .

:cool:

[Estelyn Telcontar]

But, but - there are no instruments at Bag End!!! :confused: I want to see fiddles and flutes and viols and clarinets and a drum and a harp! :(

Aside from that, the general look of things is good, and yes - we now have one year to immerse ourselves in the hype! Did you notice that there is never a clear glimpse of any of the baddies? Keeping up the suspense...

[Elmo]

But, but - there are no instruments at Bag End!!! :confused: I want to see fiddles and flutes and viols and clarinets and a drum and a harp! :(

Aside from that, the general look of things is good, and yes - we now have one year to immerse ourselves in the hype! Did you notice that there is never a clear glimpse of any of the baddies? Keeping up the suspense...

Or they haven't done the CGI for them yet ;)

[Mithalwen]

Yawwwwwwwwwwwn... apart from Galadriel sharing a tender moment with Gandalf it is same old same old.... despite the divine Mr Armitage....

[mark12_30]

The dwarves can sing... good, good. Instruments would be better, but still. I liked it.

Rivendell... good, good.

I find the continuity pleasant and hopeful. I'm not expecting perfection. Overall I liked it. And I plan to enjoy it.

[Inziladun]

Yawwwwwwwwwwwn... apart from Galadriel sharing a tender moment with Gandalf it is same old same old.... despite the divine Mr Armitage....

And what is up with that!? A teaser for a spinoff movie? Coming Fall 2014: The Council of Seduction or, One Night With a Wizard. :D

[Kuruharan]

I liked the singing.

I think Bilbo is going to turn out alright.

Aside from some bothersome beardlessness and the glaringly fake ears the dwarves look more or less ok. Kiligolas is the worst offender on the beardless front in my opinion. He doesn't even have a beard at all, just stubble.

Is it my imagination but does Thorin's nose change size..? When he's shown starting the song it looks all big but later when he's whispering to Gandalf it looks normal sized again.

Evidently we are also going to get a fight with the trolls rather than what is described in the book (what a surprise).

I originally thought the shots of Gandalf by himself in the ruin were of him exploring Dul Guldur, but I have changed my mind and think it is just some random ruin.

We are also apparently going to have to deal with some typical elven egotism when the dwarves arrive at Rivendell (if that is indeed what that ridiculous scene with the elves on horses riding around the dwarves was).

apart from Galadriel sharing a tender moment with Gandalf

That kinda creeped me out. I don't think many people picked that the silly and uncalled for romance in The Hobbit would be between Galadriel and Gandalf...but it suddenly looks that's the way it will go.

[EDIT] Apparently I'm not the only one bothered by the prospect of Galadriel and Gandalf bumping uglies.

[The Might]

Celeborn has been working so much lately and I feel so alone up in my flet...:Merisu:

Definitely strange and perhaps unnecessary, then again we just saw it out of context, perhaps in the movie it makes more sense.

[Rumil]

Ooooh nice,

Interesting, so what's happening, what clues do we have, what do we think my preciousssessss?

Bilbo I like but should be fatter at least at the beginning

We've commented on the Dwarves before, and the extreme lengths they had to go to to differentiate them, especially regarding hairstyles.

Bombur looks to be the comedy relief, to an extent he was in the Book, but I expect the film to be less subtle

Agree Esty, missing clarinets, drums and whatnot! Also a lack of colour-coded hoods, which you'd have thought would have been helpful.

Thorin seems dark and brooding which fits well, not sure he's properly dwarf-shaped though but I guess we'll see.

Where's Gandalf supoosed to be at 1.19? I can't think where open-air ruins fit except for maybe the remains of Dale or his earlier mission to Dol Guldur?

Gandalf meeting Galadriel - White Council scene presumably

1.36 Gandalf in Goblin-Town or Dol Guldur?

Who are the elves(?) on horseback at 1.52 Rivendell? (if so, then not terribly tra-la-lalally) or Thranduil's place, in which case it looks too Rivendelly?

1.58 Where's Gandalf fighting??

Must say I'm quite looking forward to it!

[Galadriel55]

I'm very glad to see that two best aspects of LOTR (IMO, of course) will be present in TH as well: the music and the scenery.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Just seen it. As you may know, I am very skeptical, if not downright negative towards the movies. However, I am also very optimistic and hoping for the best even if I am prepared for the worst. So I have put away all my prejudices and started watching this completely without any presuppositions, and was looking forward to interpretate everything as positively as possible.

For those of you who liked the trailer a lot, I suggest you don't read any further and just go and enjoy the movie. :)

For those who continue reading: it was one of the worst things I have seen in a while.

It is still only a trailer, of course. And I am sure the agenda was to show "look, we are making a LotR prequel here" (why else to, e.g., put the Narsil scene there? Random). I can understand that and that is not what troubles me. After all, that was to be expected. But putting these things aside, I still think it does look very, very bad.

I think Mith summed up my general opinion quite well:
Yawwwwwwwwwwwn... apart from Galadriel sharing a tender moment with Gandalf it is same old same old....

It is a trailer, so maybe it will have different mood (like some of the "fun scenes" like the Dwarves falling through the door), but, in short:
- too much like LotR. Yes, I think it looks like it will succeed in being in line with LotR movies. If that's what they wish (I assume they do), then they seem to be managing that, but that's not The Hobbit for me.
- too "serious" - that is partially going along with the previous comment
- too much like LotR and too serious: means epic battles with Trolls, means "Gandalf walks around some place which looks like Moria", means back again the same Gollum - this is not The Hobbit for me. Where is the feeling of the merry adventure? Where is the feeling of the "this is not really such a serious business as throwing the Ring into Mount Doom"? This does not even look like Indiana Jones (to which the treasure hunting idea could possibly be compared in terms of movies), it looks even far darker and more serious than Indiana Jones, and there is certainly something wrong with that kind of approach!
All this "deep, mysterious, we are being serious here" atmosphere is too much. Thorin whispering to Gandalf in this deep and serious tone. Thorin is supposed to be annoyed. Not serious. Too wrong.
- Thorin looks like somebody who has just escaped from Game of Thrones into the wrong movie. (And I am saying that even though I have not seen GoT).
- the worst thing ever: the Dwarven singing. Or: not exactly. When all of them start to sing, it is fine (even though not the way I imagine it). But Thorin alone = reminds me of Aragorn singing in the extended LotR (and that said, I actually did almost quite like Aragorn singing that - if I convinced myself that it is NOT the song of Lúthien, since I don't most certainly imagine it that way - but here, for Dwarf? Come ON!)

But, but - there are no instruments at Bag End!!! :confused: I want to see fiddles and flutes and viols and clarinets and a drum and a harp! :(
That too. Although if I stretched my expectations for a good TH movie, I would have been able to forgive even that to PJ - but making it sound the same like (his own-made!) Dúnedain songs - why? Why??? There is no answer to that question, why should Dwarven and Númenorean songs about ancient forgotten past of their race be the same??? This is not anything against the song itself, but it is not a Dwarven song. Most certainly it is not THE Dwarven song. Sorry.

- one thing which is nice in the trailer, really beautiful: the first large scenery where the Dwarves go towards the mountains. Forest in the foreground, mountains in the background. But that was also the one thing nice about LotR. But these epic beautiful wide sceneries are not enough for a good movie. Maybe if it was a nature documentary. Or travel documentary. "Survey M-E with our 13 Dwarves and Mr. Baggins from National Geographic!" But the story needs... story. And characters. And most of all, it should have at least a bit of the Hobbit mood.

I was originally talking to Lommy when I first saw this and told her exactly these things. At one point, she mentioned something like that "surely it could have been worse". And that made me think.

No, from what I have seen this far, I don't think it could have been worse than this. I am sorry. Despite all my best hopes - my best hopes were crushed. I did not believe they will be. But they were. It's all wrong.

I am, of course, still expecting to see more. This was just one small trailer. This is by no means final judgement. But first impression - I give you F-.

[Lalwendë]

I've been geeking out and watching on freeze frame and there are musical instruments at Bag End! I spied a lute (or similar) behind Nori at 0:44.

I'm very pleased with the Dwarves as they don't look like an amorphous mass of hairy, belching, short people. Lots of creative hair styles going on, some of the moustaches remind me of the kind of thing you see in these bizarre moustache growing competitions. And Kili is excused because maybe not having a beard is a sign of being a young rebel ;) Besides, that's Aidan Turner, and he's no Orlando Bloom, he's capable of being perfectly 'brooding' as any Being Human fan knows.

There's something puzzling me though. At 0:52 there appears to be a Man in Bag Eng. It's not Gandalf, he is to the left, and I don't think it's a Dwarf sitting on a table. He has no beard and he has a tankard. Who is this? :confused:

I'm very pleased with Martin Freeman as Bilbo.

[Aganzir]

And what is up with that!? A teaser for a spinoff movie? Coming Fall 2014: The Council of Seduction or, One Night With a Wizard.
Ahahaha! I look forward to that!

Is it my imagination but does Thorin's nose change size..? When he's shown starting the song is looks all big but later when he's whispering to Gandalf it looks normal sized again.
I find it more likely it was just your imagination because I usually pay a lot of attention to noses but didn't see anything. ;) Or of course they might be having trouble with the prostheses (I'm assuming even Richard Armitage's nose wasn't good enough for them).

I was pleasantly surprised because there were few things I found outrageous. The lack of beards was one of them, though. I know they can't be true to the entire book, but how am I supposed to take a Dwarven prince seriously if his beard is about as long as Aragorn's? Fili and Kili are alright in the sense that they're very young and it could be argued theirs haven't grown yet, but Thorin? I am truly and deeply sad about it.

Edit: huh, crossed with Gal, Legate and Lal!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

One thing: okay, after rewatching it for about fourth or fifth time, I can start to see what might be nice about it - if it works out. It can be epic. (I have been now paying attention to the transformation of the song into the theme, which is probably going to be the main theme of TH.)

But still, what I said above, holds.

[Aganzir]

I feel so shallow now. Here I am, chattering about noses and beards, while some people go through the pains of explaining why Peter Jackson's vision is wrong. ;) And no, I'm not poking fun at Legate - he has a point. That's what I felt too while watching the trailer, but being naturally inclined towards everything dark and gloomy and serious, I didn't mind. I think it might be a good movie, but I can also add my voice to Legate's one-man choir and say it's not going to be The Hobbit I know.

[Galadriel55]

@Legate: The funny thing is, I'm usually the one ripping apart every detail I don't like in the movies. What happened to me? I stopped caring that much for some reason! :confused: Although I agree with what you said, I'm not angry enough to add more of my own. At least right now.

- Thorin looks like somebody who has just escaped from Game of Thrones into the wrong movie. (And I am saying that even though I have not seen GoT).

Do you have a particular GoT character in mind, or is it just the general air around Thorin?

No, from what I have seen this far, I don't think it could have been worse than this.

Yes, it could have. They could have ruined the scenery and the music. Then it would be as bad as it gets.

There's something puzzling me though. At 0:52 there appears to be a Man in Bag Eng. It's not Gandalf, he is to the left, and I don't think it's a Dwarf sitting on a table. He has no beard and he has a tankard. Who is this? :confused:

I thought it's one of the younger beardless Dwarves.

Edit: xed since Lal's post

[Lalwendë]

One thing: okay, after rewatching it for about fourth or fifth time, I can start to see what might be nice about it - if it works out. It can be epic. (I have been now paying attention to the transformation of the song into the theme, which is probably going to be the main theme of TH.)

But still, what I said above, holds.

An argument in favour of it being more epic can be demonstrated in the contrast between RTD era Doctor Who and Moffat era Doctor Who. The former was epic, the latter wanted to be more 'fairy tale' - and it just doesn't work as well especially when you are expecting 'epic'. I think to be 'fairytale' in film a modern audience just can't take it without hefty dollops of irony (see Stardust - one of my favourite films, incidentally) and I'd rather not have loads of irony in The Hobbit.

However...this is a trailer and they're known for ramping up the action and it may all turn out differently in the final cut. And Martin Freeman has a knack for carrying off a role like Bilbo with a light touch.

I thought it's one of the younger beardless Dwarves.

That would mean it was Kili, and being a seasoned Aidan Turner watcher (ahem) I'm sure it's not him.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I feel so shallow now. Here I am, chattering about noses and beards, while some people go through the pains of explaining why Peter Jackson's vision is wrong. ;) And no, I'm not poking fun at Legate - he has a point. That's what I felt too while watching the trailer, but being naturally inclined towards everything dark and gloomy and serious, I didn't mind. I think it might be a good movie, but I can also add my voice to Legate's one-man choir and say it's not going to be The Hobbit I know.

Well, as for noses and beards - I went through that already when I first have seen the pictures of the Dwarves :) So I have sort of accepted that they look the way they look. Many of the Dwarves look like 17-century Warsaw militia, but I am fine with that. At least they do not look all like Vikings, which would have been the easiest, most "mainstream" (and most stupid) way anyway. I would second that the colored hoods are missing, though: one more, if not one of THE most important things, also related to the mood of the "real Hobbit".

But of course, beards should be long. Especially Thorin's, since he's the most prominent Dwarf. (See what I said about him looking not like a Dwarf, but more like Jon Snow's father... or whatever they have there.)

[Galadriel55]

But of course, beards should be long. Especially Thorin's, since he's the most prominent Dwarf.

Gimli's was longer, and he's just Gimli.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Do you have a particular GoT character in mind, or is it just the general air around Thorin?
Like I said, I haven't really seen it (except for a few glimpses, trailers, pictures etc.), so it's the general air.

Yes, it could have. They could have ruined the scenery and the music. Then it would be as bad as it gets.
True. But it isn't much (what I said about that being enough for a documentary about nature, but nothing else).

An argument in favour of it being more epic can be demonstrated in the contrast between RTD era Doctor Who and Moffat era Doctor Who. The former was epic, the latter wanted to be more 'fairy tale' - and it just doesn't work as well especially when you are expecting 'epic'. I think to be 'fairytale' in film a modern audience just can't take it without hefty dollops of irony (see Stardust - one of my favourite films, incidentally) and I'd rather not have loads of irony in The Hobbit.
I did not expect them to make a fairytale, but there still was the chance to preserve at least a bit of the atmosphere.

[Aganzir]

Well, as for noses and beards - I went through that already when I first have seen the pictures of the Dwarves :) So I have sort of accepted that they look the way they look.
I remember thinking they'd have time to make at least Thorin's beard longer - I never accepted it the way it was. Seems they didn't (which was just to be expected). Ah well. That automatically makes Thorin less awesome.

Gimli's was longer, and he's just Gimli.
"Gimli, you're a Longbeard."
"But I'm just Gimli."

[Lalwendë]

I did not expect them to make a fairytale, but there still was the chance to preserve at least a bit of the atmosphere.

I always think of it as being more of a 'fairytale', but that's possibly davem's influence! Really, I don't know how they could uncouple it from what was portrayed in the LotR films, as that is what audiences will expect, and I have to say it's what I'd expect myself from a Peter Jackson adaptation of the book. So I'm coming to this with those expectations in mind.

I can't explain away Thorin's beard! He does look a bit like an escapee from Westeros but maybe that's not such a bad thing.

[Kuruharan]

I'm very pleased with the Dwarves as they don't look like an amorphous mass of hairy, belching, short people.

I’ve been doing some more thinking about the look of the dwarves (more in fact than I did when their look was first published) and I’m coming around to this point of view. I still think that there could be some more bits of beard but I think Lal is right and it *is* a good thing that the dwarves are not going to just be short masses of hair (we will see about the belching…I would be very surprised if there is no belching).

Looking at real world cultures where beards are customarily worn, there are all kinds of variety and lengths that are employed. They don’t just wear huge unkempt messes.

Still, all of them should have actual beards, though even if they are braided up or otherwise dealt with so they aren’t so prominent on their faces. Even a very large beard can be tied up into a pretty small package…in fact, I would imagine dwarves would have to do this frequently when they are working in the forge to keep from setting themselves on fire.

Many of the Dwarves look like 17-century Warsaw militia, but I am fine with that. At least they do not look all like Vikings, which would have been the easiest, most "mainstream" (and most stupid) way anyway

And I heartily concur with this sentiment. At least they avoided going for the drunken, rampaging Viking theme.

Besides, that's Aidan Turner, and he's no Orlando Bloom, he's capable of being perfectly 'brooding' as any Being Human fan knows.

That’s not my point. He’s Lego-like in the sense that I believe he’s there to be gurl-food. ;)

I'm assuming even Richard Armitage's nose wasn't good enough for them

Part of the dwarf motif they seem to have selected is instead of giving them all beards is to make their noses and ears very large. The nose thing does have some basis in Tolkien…not so much the ears.

[Ben K.]

Meh, it's a trailer, the director doesn't usually make them. Check out early LOTR trailers and see how much bearing they have on the movie. The aim of this trailer was to sell an LOTR prequel to general audiences - probably why Gandalf has such a disproportionate focus, one would think the title is "The Wizard".

A great trailer for what it was trying to achieve - and Freeman feels fantastic already.

I'm wondering how much focus Gandalf will have given the additional plot. The story they're selling here is Gandalf the chess-player putting his loved ones in harms way for the greater good, somewhat unsure of the outcome. This was a major thread in the LOTR movies as well. I started to suspect with the casting of Radagast that they were going to explore this aspect of Gandalf, with Radagast having too much love of the world to achieve his mission and Saruman having too little to achieve it, in a sense mirroring the ultimately successful Gandalfs potential duality. Maybe I'm looking too much into it, but since Gandalf is essentially carrying the other half of these movies (indeed, the half that will act to prequel-ise it) I wouldn't be surprised to see the writers do that.

I'd probably like it to, since I've come to enjoy Jacksons reinterpretations of some characters.

[Lalwendë]

Still, all of them should have actual beards, though even if they are braided up or otherwise dealt with so they aren’t so prominent on their faces. Even a very large beard can be tied up into a pretty small package…in fact, I would imagine dwarves would have to do this frequently when they are working in the forge to keep from setting themselves on fire.

Bombur also has no beard - it might be practical because he obviously enjoys his gravy ;)

That’s not my point. He’s Lego-like in the sense that I believe he’s there to be gurl-food. ;)

I actually don't mind this, because it might drive some more people into investigating Being Human which is one of the best programmes the BBC have ever made, and I'd quite like it if more people had seen it and could discuss it with me!

Has anyone else noticed the antimacassars on the back of Bilbo's chair? Perfect for him.

[Galin]

Still, all of them should have actual beards, though even if they are braided up or otherwise dealt with so they aren’t so prominent on their faces. Even a very large beard can be tied up into a pretty small package…in fact, I would imagine dwarves would have to do this frequently when they are working in the forge to keep from setting themselves on fire.

Well, there was a clan called the Firebeards ;)


Tolkien noted some tucking and binding of beards: for example Dwalin's beard was so long it could be tucked into his belt, and Dain's folk had beards forked and plaited and thrust into their belts. In The Book of Lost Tales the beards of the Dwarves 'reach even to their toes, but the beards of the Indrafangs are the longest of all, and are forked, and they bind them about their middles when they walk abroad.'

So Tolkien seems quite aware that long beards could get in the way. Much later, compare the older Book of Lost Tales description to...


'The Naugrim were ever, as they still remain, short and squat in stature; they were deep breasted, strong in the arm, and stout in the leg, and their beards were long. Indeed this strangeness they have that no Man nor Elf has ever seen a beardless Dwarf -- unless he were shaven in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than many other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. (...) ... they called the Enfeng or Longbeards, for their beards swept the floor before their feet.'

JRRT, The Later Quenta Silmarillion

Of course it's a bit late now to put any kind of beard on Jackson's unbearded Dwerrows -- I include Bombur as 'unbearded enough' in my opinion, given his bare chin.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Martin Freeman does make a good Bilbo - am I the only one who thinks he looks more like Pippin than Frodo?!

[Oddwen]

Martin Freeman does make a good Bilbo - am I the only one who thinks he looks more like Pippin than Frodo?!


Nope. A friend and I were discussing this at work and decided that Bilbo takes more after his Tookish side. :D

[Mister Underhill]

I'm very pleased with Martin Freeman as Bilbo.
Freeman feels fantastic already.
Martin Freeman does make a good Bilbo...
I agree, and I think his talent will cover a lot of other sins. For me, many of the problems with LotR stem from, in my humble opinion, a miscast Elijah Wood. Just imagining Freeman in the Frodo role in the original films takes them up to a whole new level for me.

[Lalwendë]

Nope. A friend and I were discussing this at work and decided that Bilbo takes more after his Tookish side. :D

Bilbo is second cousin twice removed to Pippin via the Baggins line, but also first cousin twice removed to him via the Took line.

Bilbo is second cousin once removed to Frodo via the Baggins line, and first cousin once removed to Frodo via the Took line.

Frodo is third cousin once removed to Pippin via the Baggins line and second cousin once removed via the Took line.

Does that help or does that make your head hurt? It does mine. ;)

[skip spence]

And what is up with that... One Night With a Wizard. :D... and his wand?? (though Gandalf insists on calling it staff)... :eek:

I'm shocked, frankly... and it's hard to not make bad jokes but I'll stop there...

And yes, what is that tall Man, or possibly Elf, doing at Bag End? Lalwende is right, that is no dwarf, he's beardless and almost twice as tall as the rest. At a glance he looks very much like Aragorn/Viggo... Any speculation as to who that might be?

[Mithalwen]

Cameraman?

Actually just think it is Aiden Turner standing up....

[Kuruharan]

... and his wand?? (though Gandalf insists on calling it staff)...

I'm shocked, frankly... and it's hard to not make bad jokes but I'll stop there...

Galadriel wants to see Gandalf the Grey...(here it comes)...UNCLOAKED!!!!!!

Actually just think it is Aiden Turner standing up

I looked at the video again and it is Kiligolas. He just looks like a ranger because...no beard!!!! And I think he's not even "taller" than he is supposed to be per se. He appears to be at the level of the door behind him which seems to be about the normal dwarf height. When Gandalf appears in shot he is always shown as being taller than the doors. Kiligolas just doesn't appear to be a dwarf because he has no beard.

[mark12_30]

Recall the gift-scene in Fellowship where Galadriel is talking to Aragorn about Arwen. She reaches out and touches the Evenstar pendant. If you didn't have the context, that would look wierd too.

Remember the preliminary outrage at the early glimpses of the couch scene, before the Fellowship's departure, when Arwen leans over Aragorn? Despite all of our righteous indignation that this was obviously going to be some R-rated scandal, she kissed him a bit, said "Sleep", and walked off. We got ourselves all worked up for ..... not much at all. I suspect the same will be true about Galadriel's moving a strand of Gandalf's hair. It falls short of an "R" rating.

[Mithalwen]

I doubt it would be an R rated thing because of the demographic they are after it is it is just the only curiousity or perhaps peculiarity of the trailer ..otherwise nothing of any interest.. same style orchestrations, same sweeping vistas and caverns and the like same dialled in performance from McKellen... nothing much else of interest - save why on earth do they think that Bilbo wouldn't be able to ride a pony?

[davem]

Interesting fan edit of the trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0550BOHKm50&feature=player_embedded

[Lalwendë]

I've been watching a HD version of the trailer and I think that it could possibly be Aidan Turner in Bag End who looks Mannish. At any rate, I'm happy to go on thinking that it is, in order not to worry about the plot being tampered with too much...

Not sure why people are reading something saucy into the scene with Gandalf and Galadriel, I don't get that at all! In fact it makes me smile a bit because it's ripe for funny captions.

One other thing I'm happy about is that all the smoking hasn't been edited out. I've read countless things in the past ten years about how Hollywood is incredibly anti-smoking to the extent that they were going to label any films with it in as 18 cert. I'd like to think that would-be censors could credit audiences with some intelligence, that they won't be inspired by scenes of hairy men smoking unfeasibly long pipes.

[Kuruharan]

Not sure why people are reading something saucy into the scene with Gandalf and Galadriel, I don't get that at all!

Those of us who are making fun of it probably aren't taking our fears in this department too seriously...but can you look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that a (at least implied) Galadriel/Gandalf make out session would be out of the realm of possibility from the crew that brought us all elves at the Hornburg for Christmas several years back?

[Ben K.]

Those of us who are making fun of it probably aren't taking our fears in this department too seriously...but can you look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that a (at least implied) Galadriel/Gandalf make out session would be out of the realm of possibility from the crew that brought us all elves at the Hornburg for Christmas several years back?

Yes it is totally out of the question. Seems about as justified as sexually confused frat boys reading homosexuality into Frodo and Sam's relationship due to some tactility and concerned glances. It's complete hyperbole from overly critical fanboys.

It is in no way the same as inserting an alliance of men and elves into the LOTR proper, when several such alliances occured after the Last Alliance in the legendarium proper. Gandalf the Home-Wrecker is such an absurd reach by PJ haters that it discredits much else of what they complain about.

[Inziladun]

Yes it is totally out of the question. Seems about as justified as sexually confused frat boys reading homosexuality into Frodo and Sam's relationship due to some tactility and concerned glances. It's complete hyperbole from overly critical fanboys.

I believe Kuru is correct in that none posting here are really slagging the movie based on that single scene; we're just having fun with the potential for an eye-rolling viewing experience.

Gandalf the Home-Wrecker is such an absurd reach by PJ haters that it discredits much else of what they complain about.

Again, if it's a "reach" that some are using to abuse poor, rich-beyond-the-dreams-of-avarice PJ and Co., I don't think it's anyone here doing it.

[Kuruharan]

Yes it is totally out of the question. Seems about as justified as sexually confused frat boys reading homosexuality into Frodo and Sam's relationship due to some tactility and concerned glances. It's complete hyperbole from overly critical fanboys.

Are you serious...

It is in no way the same as inserting an alliance of men and elves into the LOTR proper, when several such alliances occured after the Last Alliance in the legendarium proper. Gandalf the Home-Wrecker is such an absurd reach by PJ haters that it discredits much else of what they complain about.

It is exactly the same in the context of Jackson having no respect for the story or characters that Tolkien created, a lack of respect he demonstrated time and time again throughout the original trilogy. The elves at Helm's Deep were merely the most comical example of when Jackson went off the rails and into Loonyland.

Other more serious examples include (but aren't limited to) the destruction of the character of Faramir, the mutilation of the character of Theoden, the mutilation of the character of Gandalf (referring to the beat down he laid upon Denethor), the mutilation of the character of Arwen, the misplacement and misuse of the army of the dead...which was brought on by the abuse done to the course of the Battle of the Pelennor by Jackson, the silly antics of Legolas, the absurd detour Frodo was forced to make as a result of the destruction of Faramir, the stupidity of the side trip Aragorn made on the way to Helm's Deep, the degradation inflicted on the quality of the dialogue by Jackson and the destruction to the general public's conception of the Balrog by Jackson deciding to go with Howe's ludicrous depiction of it.

And those are just the things I can think of off the top of my head without really trying.

While I'm certainly just having some laughs at the Gandalf/Galadrial romp possibility, there is no character or story defacement that can be *completely* put past Jackson and Company at this point. They destroyed their own credibility through their own actions, nobody else had a hand in it.

Oh, and...

when several such alliances occured after the Last Alliance

This is certainly news to me. :eek:

The only possible example I can think of is the Woodelves helping the Lakemen at the Battle of Five Armies but that wasn't the same sort of thing at all.

[Inziladun]

While I'm certainly just having some laughs at the Gandalf/Galadrial romp possibility, there is no character or story defacement that can be *completely* put past Jackson and Company at this point. They destroyed their own credibility through their own actions, nobody else had a hand in it.

While it's highly unlikely there'll be any sort of spicy Istari romance in the movie, if PJ did deign to insert that into the story, he'd be well deserving of all the insults and rotten tomatoes I could throw.

[Kitanna]

Apparently I'm not the only one bothered by the prospect of Galadriel and Gandalf bumping uglies.
My first thought upon seeing the trailer was "Galadriel and Gandalf, whhaaa?" A romance? No. A tender moment that looks awkward in the trailer? Oh yes.

The dwarven song was cool, very haunting. Based on that quick trailer I am looking forward to seeing it. PJ does know how to make a good movie even if his adaption of books stray from the original the further he moves along in the story.

Does anyone know if Howard Shore will be doing the score? Or have they just taken his themes and found a new composer? I doubt and hope not.

[Mithalwen]

I am fairly sure it is just by ear...and I think I read it was but if it isnt' Shore someone is a musical "forger" par excellance...


And yes the reaction to Galadriel and Gandalf was not that I thought even PJ would take enough liberty to have some bizarre romance going on more "What are they doing to the story this time?"

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

And yes the reaction to Galadriel and Gandalf was not that I thought even PJ would take enough liberty to have some bizarre romance going on more "What are they doing to the story this time?"

Exactly. It is clear what it is: probably some sort of "I am afraid of Sauron and the rest of the Council even does not support me" - "No, I trust you, even if all the others don't" moment, or something like that.

But what I find peculiar is that they decided to put it into the trailer: because, what are people who aren't that familiar with Tolkien lore going to think when they see it? What purpose does it serve? They already show both G's in the trailer, so they don't need to prove any more to the audience that they are going to be there; or if they wanted to show a scene where the two of them are together, then surely there would be even a different scene. But this scene so much opens to the "what is it, a romance?" interpretation that it seems really strange to me that they included it, of all things. Surely they must have known.

P.S. And by the way - I find it funny, because if there is a person who is completely against the movie adaptations of LotR, it is me, but I find the accusations of PJ's "crimes" on this thread surprisingly strong. He is definitely guilty of all that, but for me at least, that didn't mean that I wouldn't be able to give him another chance. I still thought he could make a decent enough movie out of TH. Like I said, though, the trailer did not convince me much about that and right now it seems that he indeed failed the same as with LotR. However, once again like I said, that is only judging by the impressions - the whole movie can still be completely different from the trailer. So I'll wait to see.

[Kuruharan]

Does anyone know if Howard Shore will be doing the score?

Yes, he's doing the music again.

[Aganzir]

Seems about as justified as sexually confused frat boys reading homosexuality into Frodo and Sam's relationship due to some tactility and concerned glances. It's complete hyperbole from overly critical fanboys.
It's pretty much a hyperbole to find any kind of sexuality whatsoever in the Lord of the Rings, but you don't have to be sexually confused or a frat boy to mistake homosociality for homoeroticism.

But what I find peculiar is that they decided to put it into the trailer: because, what are people who aren't that familiar with Tolkien lore going to think when they see it?
Imagining I saw the trailer as someone who didn't know their Tolkien, I'd find the prospect of a non-asexual wizard very fascinating. ;)

[skip spence]

Yes it is totally out of the question. Seems about as justified as sexually confused frat boys reading homosexuality into Frodo and Sam's relationship due to some tactility and concerned glances. It's complete hyperbole from overly critical fanboys.
Hate to break it to you, but you are the queer one here. Show that scene to ten people unfamiliar with the characters and I'd bet that at least nine would see a romantic moment (with sexual connotations).

Do I think that Galadriel and Gandalf will have any R-rated moments together, explicit or implied? No I don't see that happening. Will they have a romance, or the bud of one? Probably not.

I can however easily imagine PJ's Galadriel as a temptress or a tease if you will. A benign manipulator. Perhaps she is testing Gandalf's moral fibres, or something to that effect, him being incarnated as a Man, not immune to Men's inherent weaknesses' and lusts?

[Mithalwen]

Hate to break it to you, but you are the queer one here. Show that scene to ten people unfamiliar with the characters and I'd bet that at least nine would see a romantic moment (with sexual connotations).


It was certainly a very intimate gesture. Girls will style each others hair but caressing someone's hair is beyond normal social contact. It is in the realm of the closest relationships ...of course the conventions of elf society may be different but I have always got the feeling that they had a bit of a "thing" about nice hair.. I know they are all tall slender and beautiful but it is the feature that gets commented on..

[Nogrod]

It's interesting to see the row over the scene with Galadriel and Gandalf when it is one of my favourites in the whole trailer...

I mean I do share some, if not many, of Legate's concerns and criticisms, but as we know already that they're going to put some stuff of their own in there whether we like it or not, that part didn't look the worst of it. On the contrary.

Let's not let the physical embodiments of these beings lead us astray: Gandalf and Galadriel have known each other for thousands of years and I think Tolkien let's us understand they have a close relationship (which doesn't have to mean anything sexual to be sure) and they seem to admire each other... and they're the guardians of the rings... So bringing that part of their mutual history forwards looks like a decent addition (comparing to many other ones others and I have already said we hated in the LotR).

And really, even if the porn industry may take it's turn with that one, to me it felt nothing like what is discussed here (even as a joke). Skip may be right in saying PJ's vision might be Galadriel pressing Gandalf for some cause she seems fit, but I'd bet on the scene being more about her trying to soothe him like old friends do.

And I really pray I'm not wrong... :(


On other issues I do like the different beards (even the smaller ones) and agree that the polish cavalry -style looks fresher than the age old Viking-stereotypes. But - like I think I already complained some elsewhere - why have they made Thorin Oakenshield look and feel like he is? It's easy to see they're trying to pull the same strings they did with casting Orlando Bloom and Elijah Wood on LotR and less easy to see him as Thorin Oakenshield of the book.


But here I pray I'm wrong and Mr. Armitage proves to be an actor to fill the boots of Thorin even if he doesn't have the looks or the feel of a stout, old, revered leader of the dwarves...

[Kitanna]

It was certainly a very intimate gesture. Girls will style each others hair but caressing someone's hair is beyond normal social contact. It is in the realm of the closest relationships ...of course the conventions of elf society may be different but I have always got the feeling that they had a bit of a "thing" about nice hair.. I know they are all tall slender and beautiful but it is the feature that gets commented on..
You know in ROTK Legolas gives Aragon what can only be described as the weirdest set of bedroom eyes ever and I don't remember PJ fleshing out a love story based on that.

Scenes like Galadriel caressing a, what looks to me, clearly distressed Gandalf isn't anything but a tender moment that looked weird in the trailer. Though, the conversation that has cropped up here about it is amusing. I look forward to seeing Galadriel back because I am very fond of Cate Blanchett's acting. I also look forward to seeing how well Thorin and Bilbo pull off their roles.

I'm glad this made-up female elf hasn't made it in the trailer.

[Mithalwen]

I was responding to skip's point that to someone who didn't know the context they might get the wrong idea. I still think it is a bit odd though once again I say I never extrapolated that there would be a G on G romantic subplot. It may have been that Gandalf had a buzz cut the last time she saw him and she is osanwe kenta-ing "ooh you've grown your hair you really need some conditioner on the split ends"..

I love Cate Blanchett and I don't think Galadriel could have been better cast or played but I suspect she may have featured in the trailer because she is the token female and a big Hollywood name.

Richard Armitage may not be the obvious choice for a dwarf but he is a serious man. An actor who is prepared to be water-boarded for a part might get a little grudging dwarvish respect.

[Morthoron]

After viewing the trailer, I must say I was not aware of that many shades of gray in the color palette. Having read the book more times than I can recount, I can honestly say that gray is not the color that comes to mind. Perhaps because I don't think in black and white.

[Galendor]

After viewing the trailer several times, I'm sure our general reaction to the actual movie will be similar to that of LOTR. We'll be exicited to see our beloved book presented (again) in film. We may generally like it, but we will have many small and larger problems with the portrayal.

Galadriel is in the trailer because she is portrayed by a famous actress. It is advertisement. I was surprised that Elrond was not shown.

There will be a lot of time devoted to making this movie "fit" with the LOTR movie storyline, obviously. Much of the movie will deal with Gandalf's adventures figuring out who the Necromancer is (i.e. Sauron), foreshadowing LOTR. I suspect that is where Gandalf is wandering among stone ruins. He has to get the map that shows the secret door on the Lonely Mountain.

Regarding film portrayal of the "humor" of The Hobbit: I did notice that towards the end of the trailer there is a momentary scene that looks like the "cleaning up" scene that occurs after a meal in Bilbo's home in the book. I wonder if Gandalf will ask for cold chicken and pickles?

[Mithalwen]

What is there to be excited about? We know the plot and we know how PJ does things in ME - ad the trailer has confirmed it will be moulded to fit LOTR. The only variables are the additions and changes hinted at by casting which is more the macabre curiosity that inspires folk to rubberneck at a car crash rather than excitement.

While obviously we all know the books and perhaps the vast majority of Hobbit viewers will have seen LOTR but... even if you know what the story is with a film you sort of put that on hold and appreciate they don't know what will happen to them. Somehow the whole film being done as a flashback to Frodo is a handicap to that. Even within the context of the trailer, even if you went to that trailer in complete ignorance of Tolkien and the Jackson films you are informed instantly that everything is going to turn out alright in the end because Bilbo is telling it from the perspective of a safe and prosperous old age. It just makes all that portentous "will I return? I can't guarantee it.. I am not responsible for his fate " stuff utterly pointless

[Lalwendë]

Let's not let the physical embodiments of these beings lead us astray: Gandalf and Galadriel have known each other for thousands of years and I think Tolkien let's us understand they have a close relationship (which doesn't have to mean anything sexual to be sure) and they seem to admire each other... and they're the guardians of the rings... So bringing that part of their mutual history forwards looks like a decent addition (comparing to many other ones others and I have already said we hated in the LotR).

Indeed. They're very old friends so why wouldn't they be touchy-feely? Personally, I got over my shock that they weren't doing The Hobbit 'straight' a long time ago and I admit I'm quite interested and even excited to see how this stuff with The White Council pans out. I'm sure this scene is something to do with that. And aside from anything else, it might give me a chance to see Chris Lee as Saruman on screen again.

The new cast members chosen really are good choices. People outside the UK might not know them all very well or even at all because most of them are best known from TV shows in the UK. Richard Armitage is a fantastic actor and can turn his hand to any number of different roles. He's outshone anything Colin Firth could do in a costume drama lead role and stole the show in Robin Hood. Though I have to say in response to the dubbing of Aidan Turner as 'Kiligolas' that here you have pinpointed the wrong man. It's Armitage that has the fanatical following, including 'The Armitage Army'.

Aidan Turner himself is a great choice. He was vampire Mitchell in Being Human. I tend to think that he was chosen not for his looks but because Being Human has a devoted cult following and his presence will reel in the SF geeks.

Martin Freeman I've said all along would make the perfect Bilbo. In The Office, the whole series ended up not being about the Ricky Gervais character but about Freeman's character Tim, and his relationship with Dawn.

This is without even considering Ken Stott, James Nesbitt, Sylvester McCoy (another geek pleasing choice) and Benedict Cumberbatch. The only choice that I hate is Barry Humphries as the Great Goblin which reduces the role to pure pantomime, and I'm not convinced Stephen Fry won't chew up the scenery.

[Kuruharan]

Though I have to say in response to the dubbing of Aidan Turner as 'Kiligolas' that here you have pinpointed the wrong man. It's Armitage that has the fanatical following, including 'The Armitage Army'.

Aidan Turner himself is a great choice. He was vampire Mitchell in Being Human. I tend to think that he was chosen not for his looks but because Being Human has a devoted cult following and his presence will reel in the SF geeks.


Kiligolas being Kiligolas has nothing to do with the actor himself or anything he may or may not have previously done. I don't think it’s the actor's fault.

It has everything to do with Kiligolas not looking anything like a dwarf (note the discussion above where people couldn't figure out whether he was a ranger or a cameraman who wandered into shot or whatever) and overall he just looks like a pretty boy Ranger...ergo Kiligolas. I would have called him "Kiligorn" but I thought that sounded weird.

[Galendor]

What is there to be excited about? We know the plot and we know how PJ does things in ME - ad the trailer has confirmed it will be moulded to fit LOTR. The only variables are the additions and changes hinted at by casting which is more the macabre curiosity that inspires folk to rubberneck at a car crash rather than excitement.

I agree, good analogy. I also don't fully like of Jackson's "vision" of Middle Earth, nor the liberties he takes, and especially the silly parts designed to appeal to the masses. We will undoubtedly get boat-loads of the same in this movie. Sigh. I wish there had been a different director for The Hobbit, at least then we could expect something different. But there's nothing to be done about it, so despite it all I still look forward to this movie.

[Mithalwen]

Or wait for it to be on telly...;)

[Inziladun]

Or wait for it to be on telly...;)

That's the ticket. Just as I'll not help George Lucas further line his pockets by buying his new Star Wars (http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Complete-Episodes-Blu-ray/dp/B003ZSJ212/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1324764689&sr=1-1) Blue-ray set (deleted scenes be darned), there's no reason I necessarily have to help PJ buy that new Bentley. :p

[Lalwendë]

Kiligolas being Kiligolas has nothing to do with the actor himself or anything he may or may not have previously done. I don't think it’s the actor's fault.

It has everything to do with Kiligolas not looking anything like a dwarf (note the discussion above where people couldn't figure out whether he was a ranger or a cameraman who wandered into shot or whatever) and overall he just looks like a pretty boy Ranger...ergo Kiligolas. I would have called him "Kiligorn" but I thought that sounded weird.

Well seeing as you particularly like Dwarves, I can see I can't get round you ;)

But for me, my particular 'thing' is Hobbits, and this is one race that Jackson gets consistently right in my eyes, so it tends to forgive him a host of sins. I've seen endless completely awful representations of Hobbits (the Hildegard Brothers and Ted Nasmith* being prominent offenders) so when I saw what Jackson had done with them I was delighted. :p

*I just want to take their paintbrushes away and tell them "Look, if you have an urge to paint pictures of stunted, twisted little people, then why don't you go and specialise in illustrating George RR Martin novels, I'm sure they could do with another picture of Tyrion Lannister". Grrr.

So...hmmm...yes....given my feelings on that then I can see why they don't make the grade for you!

[Kath]

FINALLY seen it! (No youtube at my house!)

I like it.

The Hobbit is a children's book. The film is not going to be a children's film. No point in making one as it wouldn't be worth it. I have accepted that now and am looking forward to it! I think if they are able to recreate the 'feeling' that Fellowship managed then it will hold enough of the hobbitness of the book to be enjoyable.

Martin Freeman looks fantastic. Beardgate aside the dwarves look pretty good. Gandalf looks much better as Gandalf the Grey and was far more canon-friendly in that guise in LotR.

I love that with Andy Serkis back as Gollum we are going to hopefully get a full version of Bilbo finding the Ring.

Ok, all the portentous "I won't be responsible for his fate" etc bits are a little over the top. That said, 'his fate' doesn't have to mean death. If you have an audience familiar with LotR it's actually a nice nod to the future plot. Which makes it slightly anachronistic for Thorin to be saying but if you will hang out with Wizards ...

Are we going to get more trailers given it's still a year away?!

[Araréiel]

Almost three years after my last visit and here I am lamenting having to wait a year! It's like the good ol' days all over again, waiting for December!

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Kuruharan above is correct on the LotR movies (parts 2 and 3). On balance FotR was fine, it's the only one I can rewatch through. It's hard to say what the worst PJ screw up was, messing with my favorite characater (Faramir), Gandalf ignoring the specific ban on wizards physically assaulting M-E people, the Green Slime, etc.

As to the preview, so far the movies seem to be better then I had thought they'd be. PJ does have the difficult task of making TH movie more attuned to LotR then the book Hobbit and LotR. As noted above, the music and scenery seem still the best part of the project.Little touches, lots of the dwarves piling in at once seems a necessary alteration going from book to movie. The problem with a troll fight is not its existence (there was one between Thorin and Bilbo with them, but rather the way PJ will almost certainly go over the top.

An under control PJ (a rather unlikely scenario) would confine each movie to one BIG battle each---at the end of Part I Dol Guldur, and Part II the Battle of Five Armies,
with a minor scuffle with the wolves and goblins with the Eagles swooping in in Part I.

As for Bombur, reread The Hobbit and you'll see he was very much comic relief constantly.

[Kuruharan]

I have found something brilliant on the Interwebz that sums up Jackson's dwarves perfectly.

Dwarves (http://girlygamer.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/the-hobbit-klingon-dwarves.jpg)

[Legolas]

Almost three years after my last visit and here I am lamenting having to wait a year! It's like the good ol' days all over again, waiting for December!

As for the latter statement, isn't that great though? Puts the world as it should be.

There ought to be a Tolkien-based film released every December for us to anticipate. :smokin:

Are we going to get more trailers given it's still a year away?!

As memory serves, we weren't given much more in the year leading up to each of the first three films. That was a decade ago, mind.

If more was given, I avoided them like the plague.

I loved first 'teaser' trailer for The Fellowship Of The Ring which was mainly landscape shots, particularly the pan along the Anduin, but as for actual book scenes and such, I prefer to see the film in its entirety without any spoiling. Anyone with me on that?

[Inziladun]

There ought to be a Tolkien-based film released every December for us to anticipate. :smokin:

Thy tongue. Bite upon it. :p

I loved first 'teaser' trailer for The Fellowship Of The Ring which was mainly landscape shots, particularly the pan along the Anduin, but as for actual book scenes and such, I prefer to see the film in its entirety without any spoiling. Anyone with me on that?

PJ's already done the spoiling. ;)

Honestly though, I probably won't see it in the theater unless my daughter expresses interest.

[Galadriel55]

I have found something brilliant on the Interwebz that sums up Jackson's dwarves perfectly.

Dwarves (http://girlygamer.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/the-hobbit-klingon-dwarves.jpg)

THIS.

[Kuruharan]

In light of the Klingo-dwarf revelation, I think its obvious that Leonard Nimoy must play the Elvenking and William Shatner should play Bard.

[Oddwen]

In light of the Klingo-dwarf revelation, I think its obvious that Leonard Nimoy must play the Elvenking and William Shatner should play Bard.The resulting scene in which Thranduil and Bard negotiate with Bilbo for the Arkenstone would go rather like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X9OdvjVfD8).

While Bard's defeat of Smaug will probably end up resembling this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SK0cUNMnMM).

[The Might]

Attempting to change the subject from sexual confusion between Elves and Maiar - thank you, davem, for posting the fan trailer, in my opinion it's much better than the original.
Especially Gandalf's pretty much pointless recital of the Dwarves' names bothered me.

[Inziladun]

In light of the Klingo-dwarf revelation, I think its obvious that Leonard Nimoy must play the Elvenking and William Shatner should play Bard.

The Dwarves still make me think of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Battlefield_earth_planetship.jpg).

John Travolta ought to get an eagle costume in this and be CGI'd carrying Bilbo in his talons. :D

[Morthoron]

So, I was thinking (as I often do), the movie Bifur has a bit of an axe embedded in his head -- were you aware that the word "bifurcate" means the splitting of a main body into two parts? I wonder if the splitting of Bifur's skull is a subtle allusion to the like word?

Taken one step further, can PJ even be that subtle?

[Galin]

(...) Taken one step further, can PJ even be that subtle?

Subtle? at least often enough I think Jackson rather prefers to hit his viewers on the head...

... waitamminit! that might explain things afterall ;)

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Can I just say that Martin Freeman just looks like a hobbit?

[Galadriel55]

Can I just say that Martin Freeman just looks like a hobbit?

You're not alone. :)

[Eönwë]

Can I just say that Martin Freeman just looks like a hobbit?

He looks like Watson to me. :p

[Morthoron]

Can I just say that Martin Freeman just looks like a hobbit?

Can I just say that Martin Freeman looks more like a Hobbit than half the Dwarves look like Dwarves? They're more of a Star Trek convention than a party of Naugrim. But someone on another forum made the case that the younger members appear as hawt dorfs to give the mindless audience some eye-candy until the film can get to Orly in Mirkwood.

Somehow, I don't think the summation is far off.

[Dilettante]

All of you previous took the words right out of my mouth. Martin Freeman looks like a Hobbit, I said that to myself when I first saw him. He looks more like a Hobbit than Elijah Wood ever did.

He looks like Watson to me. :p

*cough* Ok, well, that too,;) but in context of Middle-Earth, he looks like a Hobbit. Watson has a Hobbit in his family tree somewhere. :p

I saw The Hobbit movie trailer over Christmas and squealed with delight, despite some of it's flaws, it looks magnificent. I LOVE the Dwarves' song in Bag End.

The Dwarves do look a little too handsome, not that Dwarves are supposed to be ugly! I never mean that. My pet peeve with Hollywood these days is that it tends to hire actors for their looks rather than their acting ability, and this may be another example of that.

I am almost certain that the scene between Galadriel and Gandalf is innocuous. Don't make be bring up the whole Too-Much-Arwen song and dance again. Is she going to ride through Mirkwood with the Dwarves? I hope PJ hasn't thrown in some romance just because modern writers/producers think they need romance to tell a good story. And I am not necessarily referring to Galadriel/Gandalf. I mean throwing in any random Elf/Dwarf/Hobbit maiden to add some romantic tension.

What I want to know is: Why is Galadriel there in the first place? Because there were not enough women in the original story? Because they could not get Hugo Weaving in as Elrond so PJ gave Galadriel the part instead?

[Pomegranate]

I didn't read the whole topic, but just have to comment on the last post: in fact, there is not a single named female character in the whole book as far as I can recall (not among the actually active characters, anyway). In a book it is not that significant, especially given the time when it was made, but a movie in the present world with no women at all would definitely be extraordinary. It could be interesting, and would be more canon and more right especially to us who can pretty much cite the book by heart, but I guess the movie is not just for us. But I agree with you in the wishes for no added romantic tension, it would feel... wrong.

[Galin]

I am almost certain that the scene between Galadriel and Gandalf is innocuous.

But can a character do something arguably outnocuous and simply claim that it's in ;)

[HerenIstarion]

My secret hope for this trailer, to say nothing of the film itself, is that it rouses a few slumbering wights and draws them from their barrows to caper on the Downs once more...


Well, your wish is granted, in my case at least - but indeed it was not the Hobbit that brought me back here at all, rather vice versa - I knew somewhere in the back of my mind it was being filmed, increased activeness on the Downs brought me to see the actual trailer :smokin:

And with regards to the trailer - I haven't noticed any Smaug, is it that they didn't yet have one drawn?

[Dilettante]

But can a character do something arguably outnocuous and simply claim that it's in ;)

Heh, point taken. That was a good one.

I didn't read the whole topic, but just have to comment on the last post: in fact, there is not a single named female character in the whole book as far as I can recall (not among the actually active characters, anyway). In a book it is not that significant, especially given the time when it was made, but a movie in the present world with no women at all would definitely be extraordinary. It could be interesting, and would be more canon and more right especially to us who can pretty much cite the book by heart, but I guess the movie is not just for us. But I agree with you in the wishes for no added romantic tension, it would feel... wrong.

Rubbish! There's plenty of women in The Hobbit. There's uhh......well what about...no....and then there's uh.....or....hmmmm.....How about?....no, that's no good.

Bilbo's mother is mentioned several times, and I bet some of Beorn's animals were female! And the wolves! Maybe there was a female wolf or two! ....What?......

[Inziladun]

In a book it is not that significant, especially given the time when it was made, but a movie in the present world with no women at all would definitely be extraordinary.

I thought that was their reason for making a part for Legolas. ;)

[Galin]

Bilbo's mother is mentioned several times, and I bet some of Beorn's animals were female!

You raise a good point: there were thousands and thousands of females on Beorn's property, making his life sweeter every day.



That's the buzz anyway :D

[Lalwendë]

Um, Lobelia Sackville-Baggins?

[Galadriel55]

Um, Lobelia Sackville-Baggins?

Imagine Blanchett playing that one!:eek:

[Mithalwen]

And with regards to the trailer - I haven't noticed any Smaug, is it that they didn't yet have one drawn?

They are maximising profits by padding it out into two films. No Smaug til film2.

[Galadriel55]

I just saw this very trailer in the movie theatre, in 3D. It looks much better there than on my computer screen, that's a plus on the technical side. (The content, obviously, didn't change :rolleyes:)

[Galadriel]

http://www.theonering.net/

So. Tauriel is a warrior. Head of the guard. I knew it. Making a woman strong without giving her a weapon is impossible for filmmakers.

[narfforc]

So we have Marvel meets Middle-earth now in the form of Taurielektra..... pathetic..

[Galin]

No Necrodancer then? But wait, she wouldn't reveal that!

Excelsior!

[Galadriel55]

http://www.theonering.net/

So. Tauriel is a warrior. Head of the guard. I knew it. Making a woman strong without giving her a weapon is impossible for filmmakers.

"Deadly" and "lethal". See, that's why her role upsets me the most. She's such a Mary Sue she doesn't even deserve to be named after Merisu. :Merisu: Knows how to wield any weapon, she does. Has purple eyes too, I bet. :mad::rolleyes:

[Oddwen]

Has anyone ever played Seirra's The Hobbit game for pc and consoles? There's a lady elf character in there who Bilbo rescues from the troll caves, and who then helps Bilbo into the caves of the Elvenking and with several quests therin. I'm hoping that Tauriel fits somewhere along those lines.

She'll probably be the Head Elf in charge of the hunt for the white stag, or she'll rescue the dwarves from the spiders or capture the party-crashing dwarves or something.


Necrodancer

Heee. :D

[Boo Radley]

So we have Marvel meets Middle-earth now in the form of Taurielektra..... pathetic..


Ouch!

[Boo Radley]

Necrodancer !

{Elton John Voice}Hold me closer, Necro Dancer... wait... ewwww......{/Elton John Voice}

[Oddwen]

{Elton John Voice}Hold me closer, Necro Dancer... wait... ewwww......{/Elton John Voice}

...count the Nazgul on the Greenwaaaaaaay...

[Galadriel55]

Has anyone ever played Seirra's The Hobbit game for pc and consoles? There's a lady elf character in there who Bilbo rescues from the troll caves, and who then helps Bilbo into the caves of the Elvenking and with several quests therin. I'm hoping that Tauriel fits somewhere along those lines.

She'll probably be the Head Elf in charge of the hunt for the white stag, or she'll rescue the dwarves from the spiders or capture the party-crashing dwarves or something.

Or she will rescue the Dwarves from the Spiders and the Halls both, lead Thranduil's host together with Legolas, fall in love with him, shoot Smaug, save the Five Legions, and do all kinds of things she's not supposed to be doing. :p Like as not the audience will be crying for her death instead of Thorin's.

[Kuruharan]

Like as not the audience will be crying for her death instead of Thorin's.

I know I will be.

[Eruhen]

Kuru, I think G55 means "weeping because she died", not "clamouring with pitchforks".

Although I do plan to bring a pitchfork and a torch to the theatre...

[Pitchwife]

And she’s lethal and deadly.
Both lethal and deadly? Meaning she can not only kill you but also slay you, do you in and finish you? I'm trembling.

[Galadriel55]

Kuru, I think G55 means "weeping because she died", not "clamouring with pitchforks".

Yes, I do. Personally I'll be full of glee when she dies - the sooner the better. Muahahahahahah!!!!! :D

[Galadriel]

"Deadly" and "lethal". See, that's why her role upsets me the most. She's such a Mary Sue she doesn't even deserve to be named after Merisu. :Merisu: Knows how to wield any weapon, she does. Has purple eyes too, I bet.

Purple? Nah, they'll change colour when she's angry - then everyone can see how goddess-like she is. I bet the Dwarves will unjustly insult her for being a woman and head of the guard and then she'll throw them in the dungeons (at Thranduil's order).

Sigh. :(

Am I overreacting?

[Galadriel]

Rubbish! There's plenty of women in The Hobbit. There's uhh......well what about...no....and then there's uh.....or....hmmmm.....How about?....no, that's no good.

They don't HAVE to make every woman a warrior-princess, though. That and the ugly old hag are not the only roles women can play. Why can't they just make her an interesting attendant, or a counsellor? Something a little intellectual or emotional rather than I'M LITTLE MS. KICK-YOUR-BACKSIDE AND I'M SO ICKLE-CLEVER THAT I CAN TRACK BETTER THAN ARAGORN!

Sorry.

[Kuruharan]

Kuru, I think G55 means "weeping because she died", not "clamouring with pitchforks".

Although I do plan to bring a pitchfork and a torch to the theatre...

Oops. :o

[Pervinca Took]

For me, many of the problems with LotR stem from, in my humble opinion, a miscast Elijah Wood. Just imagining Freeman in the Frodo role in the original films takes them up to a whole new level for me.

My thoughts exactly! But I think it was really more down to the role being, both from the outset and throughout, badly written, badly conceived and badly directed.

Martin Freeman in those scenes reminds me very much of the character of Frodo as I see him. Also, Gandalf seems to be having a "rather more compassionate than canon" conversation with Bilbo about the fact that he may not come back from the quest. That, too, is more in spirit with "The Shadow Of The Past" than the style of "Very amusing for me, very good for you, and profitable, too, if you ever get over it." I didn't really expect the "style" of The Hobbit to transfer to the films (it didn't with PJ's LOTR either) - but it seems to work better here. I wasn't able to love PJ's LOTR. I think I might like this better, though. The dwarves' song seems to hit the right notes, too (in both senses of the word). ;)

[Dilettante]

They don't HAVE to make every woman a warrior-princess, though. That and the ugly old hag are not the only roles women can play. Why can't they just make her an interesting attendant, or a counsellor? Something a little intellectual or emotional rather than I'M LITTLE MS. KICK-YOUR-BACKSIDE AND I'M SO ICKLE-CLEVER THAT I CAN TRACK BETTER THAN ARAGORN!

Sorry.

Agreed. As soon as it was confirmed there would be a Hobbit movie, I predicted there would be some sort of Mary-Sue Arwen-on-steroids warrior princess character. I hoped I was wrong. It looks like I was not.

If there has to be a woman role then I think a better (and even more imaginative and less predicable role) perhaps would have been an attendant or counsellor. Perhaps one that was wise and beautiful (rather than wise and old and shriveled, because beauty and brains can go together) and dared to speak against Thranduil imprisoning the dwarves rather than sending them on their way.

The motion picture industry for years has been laboring under the delusion that the audience needs a character they can relate to. Women need a strong woman role (especially someone who worries about their love interest or child) to relate to a story, children and teenagers need someone their age in the story they can relate to. I have read many books and seen many movies and TV shows over the years that have had none or at least very little children or (now at my age) female roles in them and had no trouble at all relating to the characters in the story. I believe that people can relate to a character that is totally unlike them, but Hollywood won't give them a chance.

[Galadriel55]

The motion picture industry for years has been laboring under the delusion that the audience needs a character they can relate to. Women need a strong woman role (especially someone who worries about their love interest or child) to relate to a story, children and teenagers need someone their age in the story they can relate to.

Hollywood nonesense, as you said. What especially bothers me is the "strong female character" trend.

Recently I watched a really bad movie (called Special Forces) with a nauseatingly "strong" female character. And the audience was meant to cheer for her and pity her and etc. I laughed because the way she played heroine was so fake and over the top and all the men around her made into such idiot blundering babies by the script that it's impossible to take the whole movie seriously anymore.

In that movie the woman was the main character. Luckily for us, Bilbo has that one, and Martin Freeman won't fall into the mud. I hope that as a secondary character Itaril/Tauriel won't be as bad.


Now before you all jump on me, I'm not a hypocrite. There are some good characters that go on even when they can't anymore (like our dead Frodo), but there are those whose roles are blowing this heroism up into enormous proportions. Those who saw Special Forces know what I mean (but if you didn't - save your sanity and don't).

[narfforc]

I recently watched The Eagle, a film which had virtually no female roles in it whatsoever. This did not spoil the film for me at all, for there was no reason for any female lead role in it. Now I am not saying that films don't need women, of course they do, but in the right context. I do not think that beefing up a female serves any purpose, yes they can fight, there are many female boxers, martial artists and servicewomen who are tough, however they are not tougher than the men. Chauvinist! I hear the screams, I am sorry but it remains a truth, physically a woman is inferior to a man in battle, where things level out is in the grey matter, women are just as intelligent, if not more so in some cases than men. I did not like the treatment of Eowyn's speech to The Witch-king, they took away all the power of her love and devotion to her King, and replaced it with the feminist drawl of ''I am no MAN'', if she'd have puked after saying that word I would not have been surprised, she is a SHIELD-MAID of Rohan, a woman trained to fight, of course she's not a man, but she had more respect for them than that. You could see the way their minds were working when they contemplated sending Arwen to lead the elves to Helms Deep, they desperately want a huge heroine to stand forth. Fran Walsh and Phillipa Boyens were responsible for the male character assassinations in LotR's and the overemphasizing of Arwen's role. In the LotR's the leader of the Orc-band who captured Merry and Pippin was Ugluk, so why did we need a completely different character in Lurtz?. The same with this character Tauriel .....if they want a strong female character in these films, why not use the one they have at hand, Galadriel (Nerwen) the Man-maiden, I would rather see her in battle than some form of Middle-earth meets Marvel Taurielektra. In Galadriel there is the perfect example of the warrior woman, tall, strong, beautiful and intelligent, and an history which proves it. It has often upset me why she was not acclaimed The High-queen of The Noldor, seeing as Elrond didn't use any title and she was (apart from Maglor) the only remaining grandchild of Finwe left alive in Middle-earth.

[Dilettante]

The Eagle! That was such a great movie! I saw it a few months ago and was very impressed with the whole thing, the story, the acting, and the cinematography. I was surprised it is not more well known since it was so very well done. I am a female and had no trouble relating to any of the male roles in the film. Yes it had no female roles in it (save the Seal People girls that blush and giggle at Marcus Aquila) but I think it would have done damage to the story if there had been any strong female warrior roles. Everyone knows that the Roman Legions had no women fighting in them. Yes, the Celts may have had a few women that were fighters but that's all we need is a female warrior slave for Marcus to fall in love with *YAWN*. Boring and predictable.

Narfforc, now that you mention it, they really did butcher Eowyn's speech to the Witch-king. The best parts about her speech are about her love and loyalty to her king, which any man could have said just as well as any woman. The only things she says about not being a man is to say "No living man am I." which is essentially speaking the prophecy of his doom back to him.

[Lalwendë]

Tauriel - sounds like that stuff they put into cat food to help them see in the dark. Ick. I am not looking forwards to this. I'm already sick to the back teeth with the utter dross that is marketed at women - it's all Bridget Jones, Sex And The City, total drivel. I'm getting on my feminist high horse now but women do not need a marketing man's idea of something 'to identify with'. We aren't idiots, and are perfectly capable of enjoying and appreciating something that doesn't have women in it. Sure, there will be sneering critics who would pick up on a version of The Hobbit that was accurate and didn't have Mary Sue warriors in it, but they would sneer anyway.

There's more than enough SF out there which has women being all kinds of things including 'kick-***' and very little of it feels forced. Which is one of the reasons I've so taken to it as a genre. Nothing else quite matches up in what variety it offers to modern women as readers and watchers. SF fans are very good at picking up on daft characters which don't fit so they are going to have a huge job on their hands to make this work. The only people I can see it appealing to are fans of manga. It's a lot different to how Eowyn's words were altered, in essence her character and role stayed the same; this is like the Arwen at Helm's Deep idea x 100.

How many women actually read The Hobbit and enjoyed it without there being a Tauriel in there? The readership is at least half female so that should tell us something about whether women are turned off by the absence of a Tauriel!

Knows how to wield any weapon, she does. Has purple eyes too, I bet. You know it's going to happen!

[Morthoron]

Perhaps they should just give the protagonist breasts and call her Bilbette Baggins. Then she could accessorize once she gets the Ring. :D

[Galadriel]

[QUOTE=narfforc;666970]I recently watched The Eagle, a film which had virtually no female roles in it whatsoever. This did not spoil the film for me at all, for there was no reason for any female lead role in it.

Agreed. I'd rather see a film with no female characters than with female characters that are cliched or unrealistic.

I do not think that beefing up a female serves any purpose, yes they can fight, there are many female boxers, martial artists and servicewomen who are tough, however they are not tougher than the men.

There's nothing wrong with a female fighter. Just because they are not as strong as men does not mean they are not strong period (in the same way that not having an IQ of 300 doesn't mean that you're stupid) – BUT I see something wrong with 'beefing up' a female character just to show that she can fight, and not because she's serving any purpose. Usually, when women in movies are fighters, they are the ONLY woman present, and actually just serve to be eye-candy for the men seated in the audience. In the end, they always need to be rescued. Bottom line? Either give me a female fighter with emotional flaws that doesn't need to be saved every two minutes, or don't give me a female fighter at all.

where things level out is in the grey matter

Men - physically superior due to strength
Women - biologically superior due to creation of life

Fact of nature. No point arguing.

[Lalwendë]

Perhaps they should just give the protagonist breasts and call her Bilbette Baggins. Then she could accessorize once she gets the Ring. :D

I bet lots of Hobbits have moobs anyway :p

Usually, when women in movies are fighters, they are the ONLY woman present, and actually just serve to be eye-candy for the men seated in the audience. In the end, they always need to be rescued. Bottom line? Either give me a female fighter with emotional flaws that doesn't need to be saved every two minutes, or don't give me a female fighter at all.

Plenty of examples of non- Mary Sue female characters who could beat the male characters from here to oblivion without needing to go "Oooooh, Help!" See: Kill Bill, Kick-***, Doctor Who, Buffy, Firefly, Alien etc for examples.

To be perfectly frank, I'm more convinced they are creating this fake fightin' female elf more to please the men watching than the women. Put it this way, the actress playing her isn't going to be caked in filth with sweaty hair and a funny shaped nose.

[Galadriel]

I bet lots of Hobbits have moobs anyway :p



Plenty of examples of non- Mary Sue female characters who could beat the male characters from here to oblivion without needing to go "Oooooh, Help!" See: Kill Bill, Kick-***, Doctor Who, Buffy, Firefly, Alien etc for examples.

To be perfectly frank, I'm more convinced they are creating this fake fightin' female elf more to please the men watching than the women. Put it this way, the actress playing her isn't going to be caked in filth with sweaty hair and a funny shaped nose.

Lol, I don't watch too much tv; I only talk for the stand alone movies :D

[Galadriel55]

Perhaps they should just give the protagonist breasts and call her Bilbette Baggins. Then she could accessorize once she gets the Ring. :D

No, no, no. She won't get the Ring, that's just vulgar. It'll be her engagement Ring from, um, well, that part's secret. :smokin:

There's nothing wrong with a female fighter. Just because they are not as strong as men does not mean they are not strong period (in the same way that not having an IQ of 300 doesn't mean that you're stupid) – BUT I see something wrong with 'beefing up' a female character just to show that she can fight, and not because she's serving any purpose. Usually, when women in movies are fighters, they are the ONLY woman present, and actually just serve to be eye-candy for the men seated in the audience. In the end, they always need to be rescued. Bottom line? Either give me a female fighter with emotional flaws that doesn't need to be saved every two minutes, or don't give me a female fighter at all.

This. You said it.

[narfforc]

[QUOTE]
Usually, when women in movies are fighters, they are the ONLY woman present, and actually just serve to be eye-candy for the men seated in the audience.

I can see how nauseating this can be for women, but it can be for men also. Do the makers of these films think ALL men are unthinking brutes, who only survive on their base animal instincts. Don't get me wrong I have my moments, but never in a cinema . I find this type of exploitation work both ways, firstly the young good looking actress is enticed (with either money or furthering her career) by the director, to flash the flesh. Secondly this is used to enticed men to watch what is normally a crap film, and from that point of view these were the only bits they can remember, therefore taking their minds away from the fact they have just watched a rubbish film (this also happen with music/singers of crap songs). If a woman uses her body to gain something from a drooling man, that is exploitation, but only really stupid men cannot see that, and only the man driven by base animal instincts will fall under that spell.

If we are being forced to watch this film with Taurielektra in it, I hope that it is done with some decorum. I think this elven woman will be dressed very much like Arwen who stole Glorfindel's place, but it is not and never will be, the part of the film I am looking forward to. I suspect it will annoy more people than it will please. Given the fact that they are making two films out of this little book, surely this time they won't miss huge chunks out, and if the have space to introduce Miss Nobody of Nowhere and do miss out ANYTHING I will be very DISPLEASED.

[Bêthberry]

If a woman uses her body to gain something from a drooling man, that is exploitation, but only really stupid men cannot see that, and only the man driven by base animal instincts will fall under that spell.

If we are being forced to watch this film with Taurielektra in it, I hope that it is done with some decorum. I think this elven woman will be dressed very much like Arwen who stole Glorfindel's place, but it is not and never will be, the part of the film I am looking forward to. I suspect it will annoy more people than it will please.

Ohh, maybe they'll make her a dominatrix, thereby attempting to appeal to third wave feminists. :rolleyes: ;)

[Morthoron]

Ohh, maybe they'll make her a dominatrix, thereby attempting to appeal to third wave feminists. :rolleyes: ;)

That has already been planned. In the second movie, Bilbo gets a dominatrix love-interest, a buxom Stoorish beauty named Labia Spankbottom.

[Lalwendë]

Ohh, maybe they'll make her a dominatrix, thereby attempting to appeal to third wave feminists. :rolleyes: ;)

A third wave feminist would surely be more likely to reject the whole thing as commercial nonsense and not indie enough? ;)

I've got no particular ideology to make me think this way, but my primary concern is it's all too predictable and cheesy to throw in a constructed female character because they think women will be turned off by the film without this. A bit like how toy shops insist on making everything for girls in vile pink. It's patronising.

[Morthoron]

A third wave feminist would surely be more likely to reject the whole thing as commercial nonsense and not indie enough? ;)

I've got no particular ideology to make me think this way, but my primary concern is it's all too predictable and cheesy to throw in a constructed female character because they think women will be turned off by the film without this. A bit like how toy shops insist on making everything for girls in vile pink. It's patronising.

It is patronizing, which is why I can't take Jackson's films seriously. The very idea that he considered throwing in Xenarwen at Helm's Deep is laughable. And even what was kept in the LotR films shows his knack for novelty and not serious filmmaking; for instance, we have bold Arwen defying the Nazgul at the Fords of Bruinen, only to watch her character becoming more and more squishy as the films progressed. It's almost as if she had an evil twin who only made an appearance in FotR, and then Elrond made her to go her room. Bad Xenarwen! No supper for you!

[Inziladun]

Bad Xenarwen! No supper for you!

And no "Sweet 1600" party if you don't forget about that Aragorn boy! ;)

My basic problem with such changes from book to movie remains: if you have to alter a book substantially to make it work in a different format, maybe you should just write your own story and screenplay and do with it what you like. Oh, right, No one would likely be that interested unless you can attach the name of a well-known book to it.

[Dilettante]

If we are being forced to watch this film with Taurielektra in it, I hope that it is done with some decorum. I think this elven woman will be dressed very much like Arwen who stole Glorfindel's place, but it is not and never will be, the part of the film I am looking forward to. I suspect it will annoy more people than it will please. Given the fact that they are making two films out of this little book, surely this time they won't miss huge chunks out, and if the have space to introduce Miss Nobody of Nowhere and do miss out ANYTHING I will be very DISPLEASED.

If they put her in a leather bikini like Guinevere in King Arthur, I am going to scream.

[Mithalwen]

I haven 't seen any casting for Galion so I am afraid it will be hobbit needs to be saved by Elf-warriorette again. Billy Connolly is playing Dain. Wonder how many more unlikely cameos can be shoehorned in?

[narfforc]

Billy Connolly as King Dain Ironfoot.................I think this will work. No doubt we will see The Iron Hills and the dwarves getting ready/marching to war when they get the message...

[Mithalwen]

On his current form the dwarves would heckle him and he would stomp off half way through...

[Galadriel]

On his current form the dwarves would heckle him and he would stomp off half way through...

Speaking of Dwarves, why the heck do they need a burgler? They're armed to the teeth! In the book I thought they had kitchen knives or something? I don't think PJ can pull off that 'unlucky number' act with the dwarves he's made.

[Mithalwen]

Not soft of foot though...

[Morthoron]

Billy Connolly as King Dain Ironfoot.................I think this will work. No doubt we will see The Iron Hills and the dwarves getting ready/marching to war when they get the message...

Well, it seems a logical choice, as Billy has had previous experience with dwarves (warning: profanity and politically incorrect terminology):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tbsNUvQQmI

[JolyV]

Thanks for this video, Im a big fan of Lord of the ring, Im very excited waiting The Hobbit

[Morthoron]

Thanks for this video, Im a big fan of Lord of the ring...

*The Dark Elf raises an eyebrow*

So, you liked the video, did you? Yes, it was quite germane to the subject.

*Smells a faint hint of spaminess in the air*

Im very excited waiting The Hobbit

You are? Which pub in the Shire? And do they tip well?

[Mithalwen]

http://www.cpaglobal.com/newlegalreview/5097/lord_of_the_rights_brand_war_o

This one?