Game Thread - WW XCIIX - The Meaning Of Death

[satansaloser2005]

Wait, what?

edit: oh, Zil

Pretty sure she meant- your edit, exactly.

[satansaloser2005]

Do we have a KM (King's Morsul after all?

Kind sir, have you not been listening to me all flipping game? :rolleyes:

[Loslote]

Wait, what?

edit: oh, Zil

Gah! Sorry, typo! :o:o

[Inziladun]

Kind sir, have you not been listening to me all flipping game? :rolleyes:

Yeah, yeah. If he turns out evil, you get a cookie.

[satansaloser2005]

Yeah, yeah. If he turns out evil, you get a cookie.

Oooo! I love cookies!

[the phantom]

Zil I think narrowing the field further would be good for tomorrow in case the KM do come after you...
I would assume Elendil is capable of narrowing the field without Inzil's help.
Assuming there's still a seer, they can send something to who they think is the other gifted.
Meh- they should just send the dream to Lottie again. She came through this time, didn't she?

Or just send it to Brin. As the Night 1 dreamer I hereby declare I was lying about Brin being a proven innocent- her status is revoked. There. Now Elendil can send a dream to Brin as well. :D

[satansaloser2005]

Meh- they should just send the dream to Lottie again. She came through this time, didn't she?

Sure, that's a great plan. Unless, you know, she's a wolf. :rolleyes:

[Morsul the Dark]

too bad no cookies.

I'm going to reread the last few pages I think I missed something. stupid hectic day.

Edit: next in line just got it.
Edit2: x'ed since Sally's cookies

[the phantom]

I'm going to laugh if Morsul and Sally are on the same team- whether good or bad. :p

[Morsul the Dark]

I'm going to laugh if Morsul and Sally are on the same team- whether good or bad. :p

can't speak to this game, but yeah that happens more often than either of us will admit.

[the phantom]

Sure, that's a great plan. Unless, you know, she's a wolf.
But if Nerwen turns out guilty then why not try her again? Maybe she's a turncoat KM. The secret role- the saboteur.

[the phantom]

can't speak to this game, but yeah that happens more often than either of us will admit.
Well, I for one am definitely detecting high levels of romantic tension.

[Loslote]

But if Nerwen turns out guilty then why not try her again? Maybe she's a turncoat KM. The secret role- the saboteur.

It doesn't really matter who he sends it to - the Dreamer would have little choice but to accurately relay the dream. If a KM receives a dream about an ordo, they can't really say "they're a KM!" because the lynch will prove otherwise very quickly. If a KM receives a dream about a fellow KM, they can't realistically say "they're innocent" because the numbers just won't bear it out - the village will quickly realize that either the Dreamer must be a KM, or the Dreamed must be. The only risky bit is if the KM dreams about a Gifted, which is something we really, really don't want.

[the phantom]

In other news- congenital egocentrical hyperplasia has been declared "The most awesome disease ever!" by the US Surgeon General.

[Morsul the Dark]

The Phantom's last three posts are interesting

Sabateour, Awesome future role for a game would be amazing.

romantic tensions eh? Sally what do yo think? me you a movie?:smokin:

awesomest disease? As a sufferer I can say it is.

[Inziladun]

In other news- congenital egocentrical hyperplasia has been declared "The most awesome disease ever!" by the US Surgeon General.

Better known by its common name, phantomitis. ;)

[satansaloser2005]

Well, I for one am definitely detecting high levels of romantic tension.

This Day is gonna seem like cake after what I put you through when I see you later this month, and I am not a fan of easy death. :mad:

Remind me to tell you something privately once the game is over.

[the phantom]

Anyone reading this would swear this was Day 1.

[satansaloser2005]

Sabateour, Awesome future role for a game would be amazing.

Been there. Done that. Fun times. :)

[satansaloser2005]

It doesn't really matter who he sends it to - the Dreamer would have little choice but to accurately relay the dream. If a KM receives a dream about an ordo, they can't really say "they're a KM!" because the lynch will prove otherwise very quickly. If a KM receives a dream about a fellow KM, they can't realistically say "they're innocent" because the numbers just won't bear it out - the village will quickly realize that either the Dreamer must be a KM, or the Dreamed must be. The only risky bit is if the KM dreams about a Gifted, which is something we really, really don't want.

Hence my suggestion that Elendil send the information to the person they suspect is the other gifted in the mix. Less(ish) risky.

How do we feel about suggesting Elendil send information about Lottie rather than to her? Just throwing the idea out there and seeing what you all think.

[Eönwë]

The secret role- the saboteur.
Were you in my game where I did this?

edit: x-ed with a few

[Morsul the Dark]

Hence my suggestion that Elendil send the information to the person they suspect is the other gifted in the mix. Less(ish) risky.

How do we feel about suggesting Elendil send information about Lottie rather than to her? Just throwing the idea out there and seeing what you all think.

This sounds like pretty sound advice to me.

[satansaloser2005]

Anyone reading this would swear this was Day 1.

In semi-related news, I may actually reach 100 posts this game. That hasn't happened in....over a year, at least. :eek:

EDIT: x'd with Morsul

[the phantom]

and I am not a fan of easy death
Many that live deserve death. But many that die deserve life. Can you give it to them?

(It can be argued that this (http://youtu.be/Rc3jMoFJrBQ) guy deserves it more than me.)

[Eönwë]

Anyone reading this would swear this was Day 1.
It basically is. There's so much chaos.

[Inziladun]

Were you in my game where I did this?

edit: x-ed with a few

I was your saboteur there. That didn't go so well. :rolleyes:

[Eönwë]

How do we feel about suggesting Elendil send information about Lottie rather than to her? Just throwing the idea out there and seeing what you all think.
Yeah, that sounds pretty good.

[Eönwë]

I was your saboteur there. That didn't go so well. :rolleyes:
Yeah, I remember (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=610618&postcount=761). That was a crazy game.

[the phantom]

Hence my suggestion that Elendil send the information to the person they suspect is the other gifted in the mix. Less(ish) risky.

How do we feel about suggesting Elendil send information about Lottie rather than to her? Just throwing the idea out there and seeing what you all think.
If you wouldn't have kept bringing it up I have no doubt that Elendil fully intended to send the dream to the other Gifted. But now that the KMs have been informed and know it's worth their time to look they're probably going to figure out the other Gifted thus making the whole thing a waste of time.

[the phantom]

Were you in my game where I did this?
I don't think so. I recall the saboteur, though.

[satansaloser2005]

If you wouldn't have kept bringing it up I have no doubt that Elendil fully intended to send the dream to the other Gifted. But now that the KMs have been informed and know it's worth their time to look they're probably going to figure out the other Gifted thus making the whole thing a waste of time.

Given that the Night kill is almost certain to be a confirmed innocent, however, I doubt the other gifted is in much danger [edit: more danger than anyone else]. Also, if the KMs know who the other gifted is, they'll also be able to figure out who the seer is,so....really, guys, they might as well just roll a die to decide who to kill at this point. Everyone's dangerous. Everyone can reveal their role, or prove someone else innocent, or whatever.

I stand by my thought that Lottie should be the dream though. The seer's free to ignore that suggestion, of course, but I think it's for the best. Almost everyone else is known at this point.


Sweet magical cupcakes, this would be pretty anti-climactic if Lottie's been lying....

[Morsul the Dark]

Been there. Done that. Fun times. :)

I just realized I got a smiley! is the rift healing? maybe.

Moving on I have to go n five minutes(didn't realize I'd be back for even this time.

From everything happening today I think my sally vote was a jump to conclusions that being said tomorrow I'll give a more thorough read see what happens.

retracting votes isn't in the rules I assume it's not allowed?

hopefully be back before DL. If it's allowed might change my vote but stuck with it for now...\

edit: bolding

[the phantom]

Okay, since you guys have perhaps given the KMs something to chew on that would work to our detriment, I'm going to toss in something extra that will hopefully give the KMs too much to chew on...

Can I just say that I'm disappointed in everyone for not hinting at a rather obvious theory that's just been hanging in the air all day. I know the KMs must have thought of it...

Perhaps Brin or I did receive the dream last night. Lottie/Elendil just watched our posts to see if Nerwen turned up guilty or innocent and once she felt she had been properly hinted she then stepped up and claimed to have had the dream herself. ;)

Doesn't that possibility just blow your mind? :eek:

(Let's see if this messes with the KMs heads a bit, shall we?)

[the phantom]

*snicker*

There was non-stop posting for a long time, and then I post that and *bang* the thread is dead.

I'll take that to mean you're busy putting your brains back into your skulls, ha ha! :p

But of course none of it is true. Not at all. Or is it?

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, since you guys have perhaps given the KMs something to chew on that would work to our detriment, I'm going to toss in something extra that will hopefully give the KMs too much to chew on...

Can I just say that I'm disappointed in everyone for not hinting at a rather obvious theory that's just been hanging in the air all day. I know the KMs must have thought of it...

Perhaps Brin or I did receive the dream last night. Lottie/Elendil just watched our posts to see if Nerwen turned up guilty or innocent and once she felt she had been properly hinted she then stepped up and claimed to have had the dream herself. ;)

Doesn't that possibility just blow your mind? :eek:

(Let's see if this messes with the KMs heads a bit, shall we?)

Considered this briefly, in fact. Thing is, you're not that clever. :smokin:


EDIT: x'd with the object of my sarcasm

[the phantom]

Thing is, you're not that clever. :smokin:
Ah, but Lottiendil is.

Erm, I mean Lottie is.

I mean- might be.

[satansaloser2005]

Wouldn't that be a twist?

[the phantom]

Wouldn't that be a twist?
No. What would be a twist would be if Brin is actually a KM and I'm her lover and our goal is to win as a pair. The Moddess doesn't have to reveal every potential role, right? ;)

[satansaloser2005]

No. What would be a twist would be if Brin is actually a KM and I'm her lover and our goal is to win as a pair. The Moddess doesn't have to reveal every potential role, right? ;)

Adding another tally mark to the "times I have to punch Phantom" sticky note on my dresser. :Merisu:

[the phantom]

Scale of 1 to 10 how irritated would you be if it was true?

[satansaloser2005]

Scale of 1 to 10 how irritated would you be if it was true?

I can be at your house in less than two hours.

[satansaloser2005]

I can be at your house in less than two hours.

Pictured: Not flirting.

Not pictured: A hatchet. :p

[satansaloser2005]

I have the feeling the rest of the Day is going to consist primarily of me and Phantom bickering. :rolleyes:

[Eönwë]

I have the feeling the rest of the Day is going to consist primarily of me and Phantom bickering. :rolleyes:
You do that all the gorram time anyway.

[Eönwë]

Anyway, I really don't think we're going to get much more information toDay, it would seem. I should be back about an hour before DL.

[the phantom]

Manwe, Steve- you guys need to go ahead and vote so it'll only be the innocents left. That way we know there's no possibility of funny business.

The Voting
Morsul ++ Sally
Lottie ++ Nerwen
Nerwen ++ Lottie
Sally ++ Nerwen (2)

Left to Vote
Manwe
Brin
Eonwe
Phantom
Inzil

[satansaloser2005]

So toMorrow our lynch options will be:
Morsul
Lottie
Manwe
Sally
Steve

Two of those are gifteds (one of which can be verified by Dun, assuming he survives the Night), one is an ordo, and two are baddies. I like those odds.


Hm. I guess we could start discussing strategy for toMorrow if we like.

[Eönwë]

Manwe, Steve- you guys need to go ahead and vote so it'll only be the innocents left. That way we know there's no possibility of funny business.
You're really enjoying this, aren't you?

++Nerwen

[the phantom]

Meh, I'm just tired and want the option of leaving slightly early if I must.

But yes, Sally, the situation tomorrow is hopeful. I'd say Brin and I- er, I mean we villagers have a good chance at winning.

[satansaloser2005]

But yes, Sally, the situation tomorrow is hopeful. I'd say Brin and I- er, I mean we villagers have a good chance at winning.

Shaddup.

[the phantom]

Never (http://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ)!

-gonna give her up, never gonna let her down....

[the phantom]

Admit it.

You clicked- and you liked it.

[Inziladun]

Never (http://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ)!

-gonna give her up, never gonna let her down....

It has begun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FXMYsMvs1A).

[satansaloser2005]

Never (http://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ)!

-gonna give her up, never gonna let her down....

It has begun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FXMYsMvs1A).

Two words: Challenge accepted. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA5GkLM5C7M)

[Inziladun]

Two words: Challenge accepted. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA5GkLM5C7M)

That'll be burned into my brain when I get to work (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLm5Sn1cMyQ) tomorrow. :eek:

[Inziladun]

Heh, you really would think this was a Day 1. ;)

I need to remember to vote before DL. Who are we waiting on? Me, Brinn, Manwe and phantom?

[the phantom]

I was really wondering where that cop thing was going and it sort of lulled me into a false sense of security... :D

But on a more serious note, with KMs on the loose murdering us, we need to be educated on the effects of repeated stab wounds (http://youtu.be/cQ7J7UjsRqg).

[Mänwe]

Pushing the spam aside, thank you Lottie for the revelation;

++Nerwen

[satansaloser2005]

Highlight, Manwe.

[the phantom]

The Voting
Morsul ++ Sally
Lottie ++ Nerwen
Nerwen ++ Lottie
Sally ++ Nerwen (2)
Steve ++ Nerwen (3)
Manwe ++ Nerwen (4)

Left to Vote
Brin
Phantom
Inzil

[satansaloser2005]

If there are any phananigans....

[satansaloser2005]

I was really wondering where that cop thing was going and it sort of lulled me into a false sense of security... :D

But on a more serious note, with KMs on the loose murdering us, we need to be educated on the effects of repeated stab wounds (http://youtu.be/cQ7J7UjsRqg).

I am unafraid. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrPte1uijDw)

[Loslote]

Pushing the spam aside, thank you Lottie for the revelation;

Never push the spam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE) aside.

[Morsul the Dark]

I am unafraid. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrPte1uijDw)

Why did I click that?

[Brinniel]

What would be a twist would be if Brin is actually a KM and I'm her lover and our goal is to win as a pair.
Shh, don't spoil it! :Merisu:


Seriously guys with all the posting. I just spent a good chunk of time catching up on well...not all that much, apparently. :rolleyes:

[the phantom]

May as well...

++ Nerwen

Now we just wait and see if Lottie was right.

Tonight-
Anarion should protect Lottielendil.
Elendil should send his dream to Lottielendil.
KMs should kill Lottielendil.
Isildur should heal Lottielendil.

Am I bluffing? Perhaps I just want you to think I'm obviously bluffing. So I'm double bluffing! Or do I just want you to think I'm double bluffing? Thus I am in fact TRIPLE bluffing! Or do I just want you to think I'm triple bluffing? In fact I'm QUADRUPLE bluffing!! Or do I.... etc.

(It continues forever! This is one of Phantom's patented infinite bluffs. You'll be up aaaaaall night unraveling it.)

[the phantom]

Shh, don't spoil it! :Merisu:
As if anything could spoil what we have. ♥

[Loslote]

Tonight-
Anarion should protect Lottielendil.
Elendil should send his dream to Lottielendil.
KMs should kill Lottielendil.
Isildur should heal Lottielendil.

Now, initially, you might think this would involve conflicting interests. But, as I've recently learned, we all gotta share (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lyk_EIXk_k).

[the phantom]

It's been fun, folks, but I have a long day tomorrow, so I'd better do the necessary prep-work.

[Inziladun]

++Nerwen

[Eönwë]

I am unafraid. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrPte1uijDw)

... And then I remembered that we're still on the internet.

[Brinniel]

++Nerwen

[Brinniel]

Weird to see the thread so dead minutes before the deadline. Hopefully toMorrow there will be more to discuss.









EDIT: Note: I only posted this because I wanted to round out my post count. :p
<----

[satansaloser2005]

Cricket. Cricket. Cricket. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOZzNOkcEgM)

All right, kids. Good Night.


EDIT: x'd with Brinn

[Galadriel55]

DL. Stop posting. Not that you're all rushing to get a last minute vote in...

Edit: haha! 3 cross posts with two saying the same thing in different words about how unusually silent it is at DL! Haha!

[Galadriel55]

Today was different. Today people did not shout at each other at the same time like a pack of wild animals. Today people were organized – they stuck to one another for support and thus thought they found at least one King’s Man.

Someone brought a rope. One end was tied into a noose. The other end was thrown over a thick tree branch.

Then they came for the man.

The man laughed.

Why did he laugh?

Because he knows he is about to die.

Is that a happy thing?

Not for him.

Then why did he laugh?

Because it is the only thing he has left to do.

They brought the man to the tree and put the noose around his neck. Still, he did not say a word. One by one they looked at the man’s face, some with hate, others with despise, and stepped around him to take hold of the other end of the rope. Last of all came the old man. He sighed.

“Life is such a funny thing,” he said very quietly, so that only the King’s Man could hear. “I wish your death be painless. But, really, it doesn’t matter to me.” He paused and smiled slightly. “After all, it is but your own fault that you stand here with a rope on your neck. Had you fought like a man, you need not have been hanged like a dog.”

The men pulled. The King’s Man’s body jerked up. A black spirit rose from it. The men thought they heard a faint whisper of a threat; “I am but the first!” – the leaves and the grass seemed to say. But then a wind came and scattered the dark cloud, and the men smiled, for they knew that they have succeeded to bring down one of their enemies.


ALIVE:
Morsul
Inzil
Lottie
Manwe
The Phantom
sally
Steve
Brin

DEAD:
G55, the hesitant King’s Man (modess) – stabbed on Night1
Eomer (ordo) – stoned on Day1
Boro (gifted) – drowned on Night2
Pom (ordo) – decapitated on Day2
Shasta (gifted) – throttled on Night3
Nerwen (KM) – hung on Day3

[Galadriel55]

He was looking at the stars and fiddling with a blade of grass in his fingers. He barely heard the steps approaching and only turned his head at the last moment. He was shocked to see who the two men coming up were.

“I trusted you!” he stammered, unbelieving. “I trusted you! I thought you were...”

“A Faithful?” one of the King’s Men offered. The man just gaped at him. “Trust is a valuable thing, you would have learned. You do not give it easily.” The man was still staring silently with his mouth half open.

“But... but you are my friend!” he finally said. “You would never!”

“Ah, the things I do for love! I love my life, do you not know?” the King’s Man smiled. “Do you love yours?” he added, somewhat sharply. The man was still not over his shock, and remained silent.

“If you love your life you will come with us tonight. And tomorrow, when they begin to ask probing questions again, you will deflect their suspicion so that it falls on someone else – one of them,” the King’s Man continued, ignoring the man’s silence. “Moreover, right now you will tell us who be the last of the line of the Lords of Andunie. We have finished two of them, and we will have the other two as well. In addition to that...”

The man could not finish. As he talked, he did not notice how the man’s face changed as he spoke. All of a sudden, with a cry “Never!”, the man was on him, punching him, tearing at his long white beard, ignoring his fragility as they rolled on the ground. And it was over just as quickly: the other King’s Man came up from behind and struck the Faithful man’s head with a rock.

The old man stood up and shook the dust off his clothes. He looked at the man sprawled on the ground. “Well?” he said. “You may still live if you do what I told you. Make your choice!”

“You and your cause are damned by the Valar! Their thoughts will be with...” But the man was dead before he could finish his response. The King’s Man’s stone struck too hard.

And who was he? Was he just a plain man?

No. He was of Amandil’s line.

Just like two times before, a pale mist rose above the body and drifted to the West alongside the hopes and prayers of five Faithful men.



ALIVE:
Morsul
Inzil
Lottie
Manwe
The Phantom
Steve
Brin

DEAD:
G55, the hesitant King’s Man (modess) – stabbed on Night1
Eomer (ordo) – stoned on Day1
Boro (gifted) – drowned on Night2
Pom (ordo) – decapitated on Day2
Shasta (gifted) – throttled on Night3
Nerwen (KM) – hung on Day3
Sally (gifted) – struck by a stone and died of hemorrhage on Night 4


Ok, slightly more than 2 minutes. Gee, I'm running out of creative ways of killing people off! :p

[Inziladun]

Ok, the ratio is 5-2 now. And what did Sally do to garner such attention? That should be examined, obviously, as should Nerwolf's interactions.

[the phantom]

Yeah- big surprise there. :rolleyes:

Assuming Lottie wasn't lying about Elendil-

With Elendil unable to send his dreams to Brin, Inzil, and I, sending them to Isildur was the obvious choice, and Sally's constant demands for Inzil to hint at her and repeated suggestions for Elendil to send Isildur the dream made it a little too obvious who she was- which by the way was why I kept trying to tell her to keep quiet about it.

*sigh*

But since her death wasn't technically guaranteed Elendil most likely had to send it to her since she was the only near-known unknown, thus unless someone says otherwise I'm assuming we lost the dream. :rolleyes:

[Inziladun]

Let's see...5-2, with two known innocents, Brinn and tp. If you count me, that leaves a field of four to choose from for the lynch toDay, with a 50% chance of getting it right. Could be worse.

x/d with tp

[the phantom]

And what did Sally do to garner such attention?
Remember all that nonsense trying to get you to hint, because it would tell her something?

She was quite clearly Isildur, thus if she wasn't the one you now trusted then Elendil was still alive. I kept trying to silence her, as I felt you had already answered her clearly enough by not expressing any trust in her. You were smart not to do any hinting at all seeing as we had Elendil in the village. He doesn't need attention.

(That's basically why I'm assuming Elendil is still alive, btw.)

And then towards the end of the day she was practically begging for a dream. She wanted to be in the loop. You know how she is...

[Inziladun]

All that nonsense trying to get you to hint, because it would tell her something.

She was quite clearly Isildur, thus if she wasn't the one you now trusted then Elendil was still alive. I kept trying to silence her, as I felt you had already answered her clearly enough by not expressing any trust in her.

(That's basically why I'm assuming Elendil is still alive, btw.)

And then towards the end of the day she was practically begging for a dream. She wanted to be in the loop. You know how she is...

Yeah, I was mainly being rhetorical. I was hoping too that she'd have let it go when I first balked.

Well, it isn't out of the question that Lottie is a KM involved in some fiendish plot that required bussing her mate to gain trust, but I'm not assuming that now.

That leaves the choices toDay as Mänwe, Morsul, or Steve.

[Brinniel]

In the scenario that Lottie is telling the truth, then it looks like we still have Elendil. There is the possibility that she could've lied, meaning Elendil is dead and she simply threw her packmate under the bus...I don't know how likely that is.

I'm wondering if it's time for the final gifted to be revealed. It'd mean almost certain death toNight, but there's a chance they could get Night killed next without their identity known for sure anyway. Is it worth it?

EDIT: X-ed with Inzil

[the phantom]

Anyway, we have-

Lottie
Manwe
Steve
Morsul

We need to start debating on what the pair is. I'll do my best to come up with pairs, but I'm not quite ready yet. Feel free to start theorizing whenever you want.

Elendil- if you don't mind, go ahead and stay hidden. No need to reveal. Frankly I think it would be hilarious if you survive to the finish. If you come under serious threat then quite obviously reveal, but I don't think that will happen...

[Inziladun]

I've got to hit the bed here momentarily, as 5 AM comes rather early. I also have a busy work day ahead, but I'll find time to get here and hopefully be useful.

[Inziladun]

My spontaneous, top-of-my-head KM pair would be Mänwe and Steve.

[Mänwe]

Ok, the ratio is 5-2 now. And what did Sally do to garner such attention? That should be examined, obviously, as should Nerwolf's interactions.

And voting history I think. It's going to be a long re-read through. As per my list of three assuming Lottie is innocent,

then Morsul and Steve might be the other two.

x'd since #584

[the phantom]

Let's do a bit of voting analysis, shall we?

Lottie- Day 1 she gives Steve his second vote, which put him in the lead. So it's somewhat probable that those two aren't a pair. Why toss a packmate under Day 1? On Day 2 she voted for Sallildur, but the innocent Pom was the other choice so she really couldn't have impacted the lynch in a positive way anyway. She's responsible for Nerwen's lynch.

Morsul- Day 1 he gave Sallildur her second vote, tying her with Steve. Now this would be a potential KM protecting a KM. On Day 2 he was the first vote for Pom. Day 3 he jumped the gun and voted Sally before we had any revelations.

Steve- Day 1 he provided the final bit of padding for Eomer. Day 2 he voted a bit late for Inzil which wouldn't have done anything even had it been timely. These votes are very safe.

Manwe- He didn't vote at all Day 1, and that is a very key missing piece to the puzzle, as Steve and Lottie both received votes that Day. That really really ticks me off. Day 2 he gave Morsul his first vote, and if I'm thinking correctly at the time it looked like the wind might blow that direction?

With the Steve-Lottie pair thrown out that leaves-

Steve and Manwe
Steve and Morsul
Manwe and Morsul
Manwe and Lottie
Morsul and Lottie

And now a few observations-

Steve and Morsul are the only two with a voting link.

Steve's votes are safe.

Manwe's votes are safe, plus he skipped.

Morsul's votes are the most flawed.

Lottie looks the cleanest after handing us Nerwen.

[Morsul the Dark]

Well, I didn't have a dream. I was hoping I would because I had a pet theory on that which would have allowed me to confirm three people leaving the KM.

But moving on,

Lottie- most trusted at the moment gave us Nerwen
Manwe- rather quiet fellow easily can avoid detection
Steve- Would have to be the second KM
myself- the always confusing and confused innocent thrown into the frey.

Here's a thought throwing it out there. should we assume Lottie is innocent.

That leaves:
Morsul
Manwe
Steve

and we hope Erendil is still alive: a plan would be lynch me, that'll confirm one innocent have erendil dream one of the other two that would show one of them evil or innocent thus proving the other evil. That'd leave you one KM which would then be process of elimination either Lottie or the surviving member)unless of course dreamed innocent.

That was sort of rantish did it come across clear?

[Loslote]

Well, I didn't have a dream. I was hoping I would because I had a pet theory on that which would have allowed me to confirm three people leaving the KM.

Um, there are two KMs left.

and we hope Erendil is still alive: a plan would be lynch me, that'll confirm one innocent have erendil dream one of the other two that would show one of them evil or innocent thus proving the other evil. That'd leave you one KM which would then be process of elimination either Lottie or the surviving member)unless of course dreamed innocent.

That was sort of rantish did it come across clear?

Wait. You...want us to lynch you?

Are we sure there isn't a cobbler in this game? Because this suggestion would go a long way towards us losing a Day. :confused:

I...don't know if you're an innocent who just actually thinks this is a good plan, or a KM throwing out something ridiculous that he knows will a) not be put into action and b) make him come off looking like he doesn't especially care if he's lynched (aka, innocent).

Either way, I believe a bit of head-desking is in order. And also sleep. Immediately. Good night.

[Morsul the Dark]

Um, there are two KMs left.



Wait. You...want us to lynch you?

Are we sure there isn't a cobbler in this game? Because this suggestion would go a long way towards us losing a Day. :confused:

I...don't know if you're an innocent who just actually thinks this is a good plan, or a KM throwing out something ridiculous that he knows will a) not be put into action and b) make him come off looking like he doesn't especially care if he's lynched (aka, innocent).

Either way, I believe a bit of head-desking is in order. And also sleep. Immediately. Good night.

first off I meant confirm three roles out of five(which would leave the two km not in the mix)

Secondly, my plan works like this:

ratio: 5-2 we lynch me, ratio 4-2 night phase maybe 3-2 dream reveals km or innocent meaning you know your two km. then two lynches later a win.

Now of course we could go ahead and try for a KM today which would be preferable but I wentwith the plan that has the least amount of guess work involved(at least in my mind)

to your final point I have work in lessthan 6 hours so yeah sleep probably good.

[Brinniel]

Day 2

I don't think the circumstances require a Sally + Steve theory to explain them, no. It's always likely enough that a substantial bandwagon on an innocent includes a wolf. If I had to pick *one* of them right now, I think Steve would be my guess– though that's more a feeling at the moment (and, to be fair, I may be picking it up from other people– I need to read back over yesterDay).

It's like Steve is painting Pom as a sort of witch-hunt victim, which doesn't seem to me to be the case at all, actually.

So at the moment I can see myself voting for Lottie, Nerwen or Zil unless something drastic happens.

I basically concur with this, though I think I prefer Pom over Steve.

Day 3

Firstly, no, I'm not claiming to have gotten an Amandil dream. This really leaves three options:[list=1] Shasta was Amandil and Zil is telling the truth. I can't see a KM making a claim when it's possible that someone else will also make such a claim, because either the KM will be lynched toDay or toMorrow, and given the numbers, I don't think that would be worth it for them. Zil is a KM and is fairly certain that Shasta wasn't Amandil. Unlikely because he claimed it so early and didn't even wait to see whether others had claims and Shasta really was Amandil.
And what is all this about? Has anyone doubted Shasta was Amandil? And how could the KMs know if he wasn't?

---

Thinking back at past Days, I considered that perhaps Nerwen's suspicion of Eonwe might make them less likely to be packmates. But that she decided to vote Pom over him at a time when Eonwe was in the running to get lynched is suspicious. Eonwe adding her in his list of lynch candidates also indicates the possible baddies suspecting each, but not enough to get them lynched tactic.

EDIT: X-ed with Morsul

[Brinniel]

ratio: 5-2 we lynch me, ratio 4-2 night phase maybe 3-2 dream reveals km or innocent meaning you know your two km. then two lynches later a win.
You are assuming Elendil's dream would go to an innocent which is not necessarily true.

[Morsul the Dark]

You are assuming Elendil's dream would go to an innocent which is not necessarily true.

that's true just remembered Moddess changed the rule on that.

I stand by what I said yesterday Sally is innocent therefor I believe Manwe and Eonwe the We's are evil.

[Morsul the Dark]

I'm going to go through Lottie's posts tomorrow jst to make sure I'm satisfied of her innocence though frankly feeling really good about her.

[Brinniel]

that's true just remembered Moddess changed the rule on that.

It's always been that way. The rule she changed is that the dream can't go to a known innocent.

[the phantom]

Connectivity problems.... If I don't show up again know that's why, and I'll go someplace in the morning to get online if I have to.

[the phantom]

MANWE
As for Isuldur's power, I would say not to reveal himself- if we already have Amandil making himself known we're giving away two roles! You are wanting a very transparent game aren't you tp?
So, is he genuinely concerned, or is he a worried KM? I mean think- if Isildur reveals Day 1 what are the KMs going to do about it? If they go to kill him then they're letting Elendil and his dreamer & dream target have another night alive and allowing the next dream to take place, and they won't be killing the more dangerous Anarion either. I'm thinking a KM might be unnerved by such an open game.

He does not vote Day 1, and everyone knows how a hate submarines. It would've been a golden opportunity to give us some info.

Day 2 he starts right off incriminating Morsul, and also paints Sally as innocent.

Later in the day he actually compares Steve and Morsul-
It's like a clearer more concise version of Morsul to me. I'm inclined to give him a miss for today over Morsul who is just that more.."washy".
In the end he indeed votes for Morsul.

On Day 3 he oddly brings up my Day 1 vote for Lottie a couple times (this is before Lottie revealed with her dream).
you voted Lottie first day phantom
well i've lumped the morsul, sally, pom and steve in the wishy washy. You voted Lottie first night, and i've not looked at her properly yet (or Nerwen) and will do later toDay so will be back later.
What was the point of bringing up the Day 1 vote? Was he trying to get me to renew my suspicion of her? Trying to justify suspicion of her by pointing out that a known innocent had suspected her at one point? I'm not sure what's going on there....

Later that day he clearly indicates suspicion of Steve & Morsul, as both of them are placed in his theoretical pack whether or not Lottie is lying.
Pushing the spam aside, thank you Lottie for the revelation
Thanking Lottie for her dream I think strikes me as premature. How did he know she had dreamed? How did he know she wasn't a KM? How did he know Nerwen would be guilty?

I find that a bit suspicious.

CONCLUSION:

Given all of this in total a Manwe-Morsul pack seems increasingly unlikely. Manwe-Steve is possible, and so is Manwe-Lottie though perhaps slightly less likely.

[the phantom]

STEVE

Day 1 comes right in and says, "Phantom's probably good. But ya know- it's Phantom." Inconclusive in the end, and undecided on whether there should be a dream chain or a secret reveal. His pros & cons etc. are perfectly accurate of course.

He votes Eomer because he floated the idea of not voting at all Day 1. Two of our knowns voted that way too, so I guess I can't fault him for it.

On Day 2 says this of Pom-
Her last two paragraphs here here might be defending Morsul a little too much. However, I don't think packmates would be that obvious.
Overall, I'm not sure why people are attacking Pom so much. She may not look perfect, but she doesn't actually seem very suspicious to me at the moment (this could change depending on my reread of Morsul).
That's interesting. This is potentially a KM tying his fellow to an innocent- hence if Pom comes up innocent Morsul looks better or if Morsul comes up evil Pom looks worse.

Later he speaks generally favorably of Sally.

Then about Pom again (responding to Nerwen)-
Well, there did seem to be a sudden wave of Pom-suspicion when I started that post, so I was expecting to see something incriminating, but couldn't. More surprise than anything.
Now I kind of get this, as that's how I felt after reading Pom. There was so much flowing that direction that I felt I needed to do a thorough reading of her and frankly I found nothing, hence that post I made announcing she had a free pass from me.

He then says he's willing to vote for Lottie, Nerwen, or Inzil. Already one packmate on the list. I doubt he places two there, particularly given the dangerous position Lottie placed him in on Day 1.

He votes after the deadline then. Why? Why hold the vote so late? No KMs were at risk anyway, so I suppose it's not incriminating in that regard, but perplexing.

He arrives late to the party on Day 3, which is too bad, as it would've been nice to see something from him before the bombs began dropping. He understands why Lottie was chosen for the dream. Seems to accept the dream premise with fairly open arms.

CONCLUSION:

Beyond the fact that he appears to not be allied with a Lottie-KM, there isn't much to say of him considering the amount he's posted. His votes are safe and the main suspicious thing he does is tie Pom to Morsul, which makes for a likelier pack than Steve and Manwe I would say.

[the phantom]

Ugh. There. At least got those two done and posted before my connection went out yet again. I'll look at Lottie and Morsul tomorrow.

G'night.

[Brinniel]

Day 1

The other person who worries me a bit is Nerwen not much suspicious but almost too clean. Besides which she has a record of flying under my radar...

Yes, and there has been something a bit "off" about Morsul's posting since the start– at least, I was thinking about voting him even before I logged on again– only, I'm not sure about the wisdom of bringing another candidate into play *now*.


Day 2

So Nerwen posts a bit discussing Phantom's plan.

A while later posts her list then mentions suspicions on me but doesn't vote me because it'd be bad to bring another candidate forward.

Ends up not voting at all.

Not much to go on rather careful and with no vote nothing to really discuss about her. the play first day was very clean. As I've said before almost too clean.

Honestly, I'm not sure it need be intentional even if wolvish– I mean, I think Morsul tends to play in a kind of bubble regardless of role. Sometimes it gets him lynched, sometimes it works in his favour.

As for Morsul– we may have to lynch him eventually just to see what he is, but I don't think it's quite got to that point.

Day 3

So Pom was Ordo which means to me anyway Sally is evil Nerwen is evil and probably ZIl. Nerwen and Sally keep suspecting me but never vote me.

---

Again, there is the possibility of packmates suspecting each other, but not too much.

If Morsul is evil, Nerwen could've chosen to suspect him to distance herself from him, but attributed his suspiciousness to his typical playing style as a valid reason not to actually vote for him.

If Morsul is innocent, Nerwen could've been building up suspicion and perhaps was using the "we may have to lynch him eventually just to see what he is" comment to pave the way for an easy lynch further down the road.

[Brinniel]

Unless I missed something, Manwe and Nerwen never really share opinions of one another. Which tells us absolutely nothing.

[Morsul the Dark]

It's always been that way. The rule she changed is that the dream can't go to a known innocent.

I know but the rule change means that the dream would have to go to one of the three unknowns which would be mathematically Russian roulette I forgot the Known part, tha would've given you three candidates....

Actually clarification here please moddess if the gifted is in the four unknowns and one is eliminated can Erendil send her dream to one of the others because Erendil can safely assume the other two unknowns are KM, just have to pass that knowledge onto the rest of the group.

[Galadriel55]

Actually clarification here please moddess if the gifted is in the four unknowns and one is eliminated can Erendil send her dream to one of the others because Erendil can safely assume the other two unknowns are KM, just have to pass that knowledge onto the rest of the group.

Well, currently there are 4 unknowns, so this should not be a problem - it's not a choice of sending a dream to a KM or not sending one at all. If such a situation will arise, though, that all innocents are known, yes, Elendil may send his dream to whoever. At the moment this is not the case, though.

[Inziladun]

Here's a thought throwing it out there. should we assume Lottie is innocent.

That leaves:
Morsul
Manwe
Steve

and we hope Erendil is still alive: a plan would be lynch me, that'll confirm one innocent have erendil dream one of the other two that would show one of them evil or innocent thus proving the other evil. That'd leave you one KM which would then be process of elimination either Lottie or the surviving member)unless of course dreamed innocent.

Several issues with this, as Lottie noted. A dead innocent does not help the village at this point. It would make more sense to leave you be and for Elendil to choose you as the dream-target.

Thinking back at past Days, I considered that perhaps Nerwen's suspicion of Eonwe might make them less likely to be packmates. But that she decided to vote Pom over him at a time when Eonwe was in the running to get lynched is suspicious. Eonwe adding her in his list of lynch candidates also indicates the possible baddies suspecting each, but not enough to get them lynched tactic.

Looking over things, I'm leaning toward Steve being the best choice for toDay. He seems to have been doing just enough to appear active, while actually staying largely on the sidelines and avoiding controversy.

[Loslote]

Looking over things, I'm leaning toward Steve being the best choice for toDay. He seems to have been doing just enough to appear active, while actually staying largely on the sidelines and avoiding controversy.

Indeed. When thinking about potential packs, Steve is involved in both of my more probable packs - either Steve and Morsul or Steve and Manwe. The pack without him I find far less probable (Morsul and Manwe). I'd prefer to lynch Steve toDay, and decide between Morsul and Manwe toMorrow (Elendil, help us out on that one?).

[Mänwe]

MANWE

So, is he genuinely concerned, or is he a worried KM? I mean think- if Isildur reveals Day 1 what are the KMs going to do about it? If they go to kill him then they're letting Elendil and his dreamer & dream target have another night alive and allowing the next dream to take place, and they won't be killing the more dangerous Anarion either. I'm thinking a KM might be unnerved by such an open game.

I think you could call it concern, like your reply to my saying you wanted a transparent game- I was just raising another angle to consider of the idea.


He does not vote Day 1, and everyone knows how a hate submarines. It would've been a golden opportunity to give us some info.

Day 2 he starts right off incriminating Morsul, and also paints Sally as innocent.

Later in the day he actually compares Steve and Morsul-

In the end he indeed votes for Morsul.

On Day 3 he oddly brings up my Day 1 vote for Lottie a couple times (this is before Lottie revealed with her dream).

I'd like to address all these points together as I feel they're somewhat related to my train of thinking throughout the game and why ive voted for who i have. It was the first time I haven't voted in a game and I was late to the deadline. Had I arrived I would have said Morsul- my list of three the other day had evolved from my initial interest in all the following; morsul, pom, sally, steve and indirectly lottie and inzil. That's why I voted for him with steve a close second.


Thanking Lottie for her dream I think strikes me as premature. How did he know she had dreamed? How did he know she wasn't a KM? How did he know Nerwen would be guilty?I find that a bit suspicious.

Unless I missed something, Manwe and Nerwen never really share opinions of one another. Which tells us absolutely nothing.

That's why I said revelation I didn't see her as one as I was so focused on the morsul, steve, sally, pom mix.

[the phantom]

As for Morsul– we may have to lynch him eventually just to see what he is, but I don't think it's quite got to that point.
If Morsul is innocent, Nerwen could've been building up suspicion and perhaps was using the "we may have to lynch him eventually just to see what he is" comment to pave the way for an easy lynch further down the road.
Yeah- I sort of wondered about that when she made that comment.

Anyway, back now. Doing a readthrough on the other two...

[Inziladun]

I'm still trying to work out if Morsul's "lynch me" plan was the work of a misguided ordo or the result of brazen wolvery. Wouldn't it be funny if he and Lottie were the last two KMs, given a pass for throwing themselves under the bus? :rolleyes:

[the phantom]

MORSUL

We have 3King's Men right?
Of course I remember this- it annoyed me a bit on Day 1 and made me consider voting for him.
I think it's worth a shot. and if everyone posted a list it would hide the recipient. Clever, Clever.
Over complimentary?

At the end of Day 1 he declares Nerwen suspicious and Steve fishy and votes for Sally for attempting to bandwagon him.
basically I can only rule out who Not to vote for at this point.

Aw heck it's day one and frankly I have to go with my gut...
An interesting way of phrasing it. If he was in fact trying to create packmate distance then showing suspicion then not voting them is logical.
I can't deny I'm relieved. I honestly thought Eomer was Erendil . His vote for Sally was so random based on a post with a promise to return later. I looked at everyone's lists and saw Sally on Zil's I Thought maybe zil was the dreamer revealing Sally to Eomer
Now this looks somewhat genuine. He also does not provide insight into why Boro was killed, which either means he didn't know (which means innocent) or he didn't want to get caught with too good an idea (which means guilty).
if Shasta dreamed Boro and boro was killed that means the KM anticipated Elendil's dream which in turn means they's is clever and I don't like clever wolves/KM they're tricky.
I thought this was a weird statement at the time- complimenting the KMs like that. Is he patting himself on the back?
I'm in a position I'm all too familiar with lots of people suspect me, I'm innocent , but the more I defend it the more suspicious I am. The good old Morsul logic works for me every time. I think that may be the real reason I was spared a few votes yesterday I tend to be an easy lynch down the road at a more critical time.
Is this a useful observation (particularly in light of Nerwen's set-up) or is he attempting to insulate himself?
With Phantom clearly innocent I'm wondering if he saw something we didn't... Phantom really only mentions Lottie once saying her post #57 is odd. Then goes and votes her. May have just been a day 1 throw away vote but otherwise I can't see a reason.
I'm not saying they're suspicious. I'm wondering what they saw that was suspicious enough for a vote. Lottie looks fine to me so far but I'm wondering if I'm missing something they saw is my point.
So, is he trying to fan suspicion of Lottie, or is he in a roundabout way defending?

A little later he fans suspicion of Nerwen, talking about how her play was a bit too clean, which is perfectly true.

Later he actually seems to find Sally more innocent because her suspicions of him seem fine. Then he posts again saying she's even more innocent after she really goes after him. Is he trying to pacify her?

Then he starts taking a more serious look at Pom. He doesn't like her because she tossed suspicion of himself aside too easily (*head scratch*) and because she suspected Brin before she became proven.

Then in explaining his suspicion further-
I've been trying to figure out if Pom Is indeed evil what would defending me get him?

I think it's a reach But here goes: Pom defends me votes Sally I being inclined to help him because of his defense vote Sally try to get others to do the same. Sally lynched innocent. Day three I get set up as a fall guy lynched innocent finally day four Pom lynched. that would give potentially 4 more deaths before a KM is gone.
Hmm. Logically sound, I suppose.

And in the end he votes for Pom based on this. (His vote is the first for Pom.)

This is how Morsul enters Day 3-
So Pom was Ordo which means to me anyway Sally is evil Nerwen is evil and probably ZIl. Nerwen and Sally keep suspecting me but never vote me. I mentioned I'm an easy lynch and useful at a critical moment for the KM well we could have worst case scenario two bad lynches till game's end so frankly now's my final stand as an innocent I have to go with what I think what I'm sure of.
Then he votes for Sally.

Now this is quite well done. His comment about being a lynch target is true and he was progressing naturally from his stance the previous day, but perhaps it's just a little too perfect?

He says Nerwen is certainly evil, which is true, but of course he votes for the one that isn't evil. And just to theorize, if Lottie is a KM and received her Nerwen dream in the middle of the night, they would've had ample time to hatch a grand plan in which she throws Nerwen under the bus, and knowing what was coming later Morsul had to be sure and vote nice and early. That way if people questioned Lottie and the lynch didn't go towards Nerwen that would set up Sally as the alternate candidate?

Not well conceived exactly, but just a crazy idea.

But then of course he seems to accept Lottie fairly quickly, thus his Sally vote quickly becomes worthless.

He then likes the idea about Elendil sending a dream about Lottie rather than to her. If she's his partner that seems to sabotage things.

Then he asks if he can retract his vote. (It seems he regretted his Sally vote?)

Then coming in today he seems dead set on tossing out Lottie as an innocent, and suggests we just go ahead and lynch him, which is just a bit insane but I get how his numbers game works. But frankly the odds are the same no matter what we do so we may as well attempt to lynch a KM rather than have an innocent throw himself under the bus.

He believes that Manwe and Eonwe are the KMs.

CONCLUSION:

His guilt seems to rely on how cut-throat the KMs were playing things. Nerwen looks prepared to throw him under the bus, Manwe attempts to start a lynch his way, and he's maintained suspicion of Nerwen and Steve through most of the game.

So, if the KMs are trying to be somewhat careful then Morsul seems a poor statistical lynch choice as he has too many negative ties to potential packmates.

[the phantom]

LOTTIE

Lottie voices suspicion of Steve fairly early on Day 1. Later on she's a bit suspicious of Boro as well. In the end she goes with the gut and gives Steve his second vote, putting him in the lead.
Though, if he were Elendil, his oh-so-famous post makes a whole 'nother level of sense: Elendil specifically telling his Dreamer how to tell him the role of the Dreamed.
Is she hoping he was Elendil, and/or trying to point out why it was logical for the KMs to kill him? Pride, in other words- insisting that her kill choice was a good one.
He put himself out there a bit too much, hinted a bit too strongly, and the KMs picked up on it.
Once again, explaining her kill?

Later on Day 2 she lists Morsul, Steve, and Inzil on her suspect list. She then thinks Sally seems innocent.

A bit later she states that Morsul doesn't look so good to her but she's worried it wouldn't tell us much if he's innocent. She then places Steve and Pom as the best candidates and says she prefers Steve.

Towards the end she suspects that if Sally is a KM so is Inzil, and she votes for Sally. A couple possibilities here- either she's innocent and following one of the Provens just in case they're onto something, or she's a KM and sees that the lynch will be innocent either way and so sides with a Proven on a bandwagon less likely to win out.

Then of course comes Day 3 where she reveals an accurate dream. Could she have done anything different in her situation?

But her instinct for withholding the name seems to be a good one. It was either fine planning or she's innocent. And she also seems genuinely cheerful about lynching a KM and what our population set up will be the next day.

CONCLUSION:

After all the read-throughs the Lottie-Steve pairing seems increasingly unlikely unless they are playing rather oddly. Morsul-Lottie is still possible but slightly less likely after the read-through.

Her behavior was quite innocent yesterday, meaning either she had lots of time to plan out a grand end-game, or that she's genuine. In light of the successful delivery I figure we may as well write her down as "Innocent" and hope we're not wrong. It's tough to see a scenario under which she gets lynched.

[Eönwë]

So, since I didn't get a dream and no-one else seems to have claimed one, I think it's clear that we're left with only Elendil if Lottie was telling the truth (though even if that is the case, it says nothing of her innocence).

Looks like I'm going to get a chance to do a Nerwen-post after all, though obviously she's not the focus this time.

[the phantom]

Just a brief thought based on my read-throughs-

With the Lottie-Steve pairing not so likely and the Morsul-Manwe pairing also not a great likelihood, Steve seems the best lynch option operating on an assumption of Lottie's innocence, as he could be paired with either of the two others. Manwe would be the lynch pick to make if Morsul is felt to be innocent.

So yes, I very much imagine that it's going to come down to those two. So...

Given that I've gone over all of your posts with a fine-tooth comb and found zilch in the way of Elendil hints, that leaves open the possibility that one of you is Anarion thus you can prove that Lottie is lying. It was intelligent of Inzil to hide his information yesterday, as if it was of Sally then he would be able to help out Anarion in a reveal by finally admitting that Sally was his info.

So, can either of you confirm that you are Anarion thus Lottie is lying?

[Brinniel]

I do agree that Eonwe is our best lynch option for toDay. While Morsul has the most suspicious behavior, I think there is a good possibility he might be an innocent that the baddies have set up for an easy lynch. Of the three I looked at, Eonwe seems the most likely to be packmates with Nerwen.

If we're wrong and Eonwe happens to turn up innocent, at least his death should be able to tell us more compared to others.

[Inziladun]

Morsul's always a tough call for me, due to what others and he himself have noted: his playing style tends to make him look suspicious, regardless of alignment. It's a situation with which I have some experience. ;)

Mänwe here is reminding me of McCaber. You can point to some off-looking things, but it isn't quite enough to give the radar a definite ping.

[Eönwë]

Sorry, I got taken away by RL stuff.


Nerwen's interactions


and 13 players? That means if we do really bad and don't catch any of them we have 7 day/nights. Not much time.

Actually that would be heaps of time– better than any village in WW history– but I think your calculations are a little out, there, Morsul.
Not much really. Could be keeping packmate Morsul in-line, but could just as well be trying to be useful.

The two I'm most worried about are Sally mostly because Phantom made some pretty good points(even if they're wrong) and Sally readily jumped in to join him. Looks like a possible attempt at bandwagoning to me.Looks like a possible attempt at saving your own hide to me. Yes, and there has been something a bit "off" about Morsul's posting since the start– at least, I was thinking about voting him even before I logged on again– only, I'm not sure about the wisdom of bringing another candidate into play *now*.Here she starts making it sound as if Morsul is a genuine lynch-candidate for her, and the only thing stopping is that there are already too many. But then the next Day she softens it significantly:
It's always hard for me to say anything about Morsul. He's almost always self-deprecatingly wrong, but it's practically impossible to tell how much of that is intentional (read: wolvish) and how much of that is just typical Morsul.Honestly, I'm not sure it need be intentional even if wolvish– I mean, I think Morsul tends to play in a kind of bubble regardless of role. Sometimes it gets him lynched, sometimes it works in his favour.
It *is* his style. Seriously, he always plays like this regardless of role, thats the trouble.
So basically, what it looks like is that she's been building up a low-profile suspicion of Morsul. It could really go either way. Either she was intending to keep this low-profile back-and-forth approach with suspicions of varying intensity or she was was building him up as a future safe lynch-target that she'd been sowing the seeds of doubt against throughout the game.
As for Morsul– we may have to lynch him eventually just to see what he is, but I don't think it's quite got to that point.
This pretty much sums up what I've just been saying. It looks like she's been keeping him as an indefinite "we'll lynch him but not yet" (but to use at a time of need or to distance herself?).
I had a very limited time to make up my mind in, Brinn– and nobody looked *really* suspicious to me, except for Morsul, who always does.And she's at it again...


But people who don't post during the day run the risk of modfire no? I thought he'd be making the assumption that even if someone posts just the once then it should include this list.
Oh, I agree it all works in theory– but participation hasn't been great in recent games, and I can all too clearly imagine a scenario where half the village does those "no time to read the thread, must fly" posts.Boro, the point of tp's idea would be a way of communicating the role of the "dreamt" to Elendil without the "dreamer" and "dreamt" being given away too easily. This chain you speak of is fine in the event of Amandil revealing himself- and are you assuming that he then explicitly states the role of the "dreamt"? That makes that person an immediate target for the Kings Men and killing them (in the case that it was an innocent) off in the night would then break the chain resulting in Elendil having to make a stab in the dark as to who he chooses to send a dream to next.
Yes– but we do have a Ranger. That's what they're for, after all.
So the first one seems all right, if a tad ironic (she later seems to epitomise the lack of time style of posting), but the second one seems a bit... strange. Almost mocking. To put it more plainly, it seems the way I'd imagine one wolf to talk to another about gifteds.

Well, here's my list: Morsul, Lottie, Brin.

Now, do I actually vote on Day One, or would that cause the universe to implode? Decisions, decisions...
Random lists don't mean much in terms of suspicion unless stated otherwise, but this does put distance between herself and Morsul and Lottie, so this could potentially speak for either (or both) of them being part of her pack.


Then there's the Lottie-dream:
I know– but what would a Wolflote have to gain by making up a story like that, though? When she could just fake-reveal?
Ah well, that settles the Lottie question as far as I'm concerned–

++Lottie

I suppose I should never have said I might not be around to vote.

Please do not lynch me. It would be very bad. Good night.
Interesting how she's defending Lottie and making her seem unwolflike at first. Could just be coincidence, but it's also very possible that she's trying to set it up so that Lottie comes out of her dream proclamation looking especially innocent.



It seems unlikely to me that Nerwen would treat her two fellows in the same way, so I'd assume that she kept a low profile with one (i.e. Manwe) and a high-profile with the other (i.e. Lottie or Morsul). I'm currently leaning towards Manwe and Lottie, with Morsul being the fall-back lynch.

This fits quite well with her dislike (#283 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=676989&postcount=283) and #313 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=677019&postcount=313)) of phantom's list.
You will not vote for
Phantom
Shasta
Brin

You ought not vote for
Morsul
Steve
Pom

I'd rather you not vote for
Manwe
Nerwen

On trial
Sally
Lottie
Inzil



Next, I think I need to look at how the others deal with her (and then just at them in general).

[Morsul the Dark]

If anarion is the gifted still alive I know this is obvious vut, protect one of the known innocents the KM wouldn't attack one of us 4 unknowns would narrow them down and take what little cover they have.

I'm fine with lynching steve like I said I think it's Manwe Steve

I still want to go through Lottie's posts. Phantom was quite thorough.

[Morsul the Dark]

Okay. Calmer now. Although, hold on. Shasta's a gifted, and Boro too? If Phantom makes three, Gal deserves a prize from me four having the best taste in gifted selection.

EDIT: x'd since #142
highlighting mine
remind me to ask Sally in post game if this was a typo or hint...

I didn't catch this first time round don't know if anyone else noticed it...

Sorry rereading Lottie happened to notice. Maybe hindsight...20.20 thing

[Loslote]

It's been quiet for too long. Might as well get the ball rolling. From what I can tell, we've come to pretty clear consensus in favor of (or, well, in favor of lynching) Steve. Correct?

[Inziladun]

It's been quiet for too long. Might as well get the ball rolling. From what I can tell, we've come to pretty clear consensus in favor of (or, well, in favor of lynching) Steve. Correct?

I was about to say the same thing. I was interested to see if Steve would make any effort to defend himself.

[Brinniel]

I was about to say the same thing. I was interested to see if Steve would make any effort to defend himself.
It's interesting, I think most people have placed him as their prime lynch candidate, yet he hasn't given the slightest reaction to the possibility that he might get lynched.

[Morsul the Dark]

I'll be back before DL to vote but I'm out for a bit. See if Steve can make a compelling argument(That would meanLottie Manwe, I'd be surprised

[Morsul the Dark]

Before I go,
Nerwen's vote for Lottie.

If Lottie is evil it would have accomplished nothing except confirming Nerwen's guilt and therefore could be ignored

However what if Lottie Is a KM and Nerwen was deflecting attention away from her by using the above logic against us?

Or Lottie is innocent and Nerwen was playing an awful mind game.

I'm still fairly certain Lottie is innocent but that vote bugs me more than it should maybe.

[Eönwë]

I was about to say the same thing. I was interested to see if Steve would make any effort to defend himself.
In what way? There aren't really any suspicions I can defend myself against. And if you really think my death will tell you a lot, then maybe it's worth it for the village.

[Inziladun]

Well, I thought you might want to address this (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=677375&postcount=592) or this (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=677386&postcount=599).

[Eönwë]

Well, I thought you might want to address this (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=677375&postcount=592) or this (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=677386&postcount=599).
The only claims they make are based on interpretation of certain events, so there's not really any proof as such either way.

In Brinn's post, I don't know why Nerwen voted Pom over me. I don't see how I can address that. As for the last part, I already explained my process of elimation at the time:
General comments: There's not going to be time for me to look through everyone, it seems. Manwe has said too little anyway, so there's not much I can say. Morsul seems just like a very skittish innocent at the moment, because I imagine a wolf would be more concerned with convincing others than himself. So that leaves Nerwen, Zil and Lottie for me to look at, and even then, only briefly (half an hour to DL). None of them seemed particularly innocent, so those were the options I had.


In Phantom's post, the only thing I can address is why I ended up voting after the deadline. I didn't mean to, obviously, but since there were quite a few people who seemed to suspect "x and steve", I thought it would be best to wait. I couldn't bring myself to vote Sally, after my analysis of her found her innocent, so I voted for my top suspect at the time, you.

[Eönwë]

Also, answer this: If Sally wasn't a known innocent, why did she get killed? Now we have 4 unknowns with two KMs. Hardly an optimal situation for them. My suggestion is that since everyone seemed to trust Sally yesterDay, she became a sort of pseudo-known, and as we know, Elendil (if he's alive) really did put his trust in her, as would be expected. But if it had gone through, I find it highly likely that Lottie would have been the target, so as to restart a new chain. Of course, it only works if the KMs suspect that there still is an Elendil, but as phantom has been saying, it often pays for them to be paranoid on that front.

[Morsul the Dark]

I didny realize I wouldn't be home in time for DL using wife's phone don't know how to use it so can't make brackets So ill make this proper at home but for now

vote eonwe vote

Please pardon typos

[Galadriel55]

I didny realize I wouldn't be home in time for DL using wife's phone don't know how to use it so can't make brackets So ill make this proper at home but for now

vote eonwe vote

Please pardon typos

OK, I'll count this. I also don't know how to use other people's phones. :)

This is the first vote toDay, right?

[the phantom]

Okay, so here's what it comes down to-

Frankly Lottie and Morsul both have more strikes against them, but the thing is it's because they've thrown themselves out there a bit more. I can say a greater number of both positive and negative things about them.

Manwe and Steve seem more non-committal, and I wonder if that's a sign of evil or if it's a hint of disinterest from someone with no role. Their votes seem pretty safe and they both missed one, so strictly on principle (in terms of enforcing the Barrow-Downs gaming standard) they would be the obvious targets, as I'm more content to let a Baddie win if they're noisy and running bold bluffs.

Anyway, the fact that they also seem slightly detached today with their necks on the line... I mean wouldn't an Ordo in danger of being lynched and losing be a bit more... Morsul-ish?

Anyway, less than 30 minutes to vote, and we don't want to wait until the very final minute. So guys- last chance. Make accusations. Toss out theories. Make pleas. Whatever you're going to do, this is it.

[the phantom]

Eonwe- are you saying that the only reason Sally would've died is if Lottie is a KM due to the likelihood of Elendil continuing down the chain? (Just trying to see clearly what you're getting at. But of course if Lottie is a KM she could've made up the whole Elendil thing...)

[Eönwë]

Eonwe- are you saying that the only reason Sally would've died is if Lottie is a KM due to the likelihood of Elendil continuing down the chain? (Just trying to see clearly what you're getting at. But of course if Lottie is a KM she could've made up the whole Elendil thing...)
No, they could have just found her innocent, been worried about the hint she was planning on revealing or seen that possible hint that Morsul posted, but it's nonetheless a non-negligible possibility.

edit: fixed wording

[Inziladun]

Lottie gave us Nerwen, so to me that alone gives her more of an innocent feel than the others.

Morsul, if he is a KM, has been very reckless. Could it have been with calculation, hoping everyone would say "That's just Morsul"? Yes. Could he be his usual "suspicious innocent" self? Yes.

Mänwe really is a blank to me, and that's worrisome. I haven't really played with him enough to know his "normal" style, so I'm having to focus on the mere fact that he's really been the grey man here, easy to forget. That's a great ploy for a baddie.

And Steve. The suspicions against him could indeed be explained in a way to make him look innocent.
Then again, it seems to me that he just hasn't been as sharp and probing as I'm used to. I think I'm still ready to make him the choice for toDay, but I'd like to see what others think.

x/d with tp and Steve

[the phantom]

If we tie the vote we can actually survive both today and tomorrow, thus giving Elendil 2 opportunities to dream. He could send a dream of Lottie to Morsul then send Morsul to Steve or something like that. Would that be beneficial?

Meh.... Probably not. And I don't really have the time to explore all the angles on it. Ugh. Wish I wouldn't have had to be gone so long today...

[Inziladun]

If we tie the vote we can actually survive both today and tomorrow, thus giving Elendil 2 opportunities to dream. He could send a dream of Lottie to Morsul then send Morsul to Steve or something like that. Would that be beneficial?

Meh.... Probably not. And I don't really have the time to explore all the angles on it. Ugh. Wish I wouldn't have had to be gone so long today...

Well, then we have the likelihood of losing an innocent toNight.

[the phantom]

Manwe's only made TWO posts today. On the day of days!

Is he a KM that has given up?

Surely as an innocent he would be more helpful, feeling an obligation to his other innocents, right?

[Inziladun]

Manwe's only made TWO posts today. On the day of days!

Is he a KM that has given up?

Surely as an innocent he would be more helpful, feeling an obligation to his other innocents, right?

Or is it vice-versa? Would a KM not have had more of an incentive to help his fellow? *sigh*

[Brinniel]

Eonwe may figure that if he's getting lynched anyway, there's no point in defending himself. But if he is evil, I wonder if his casual attitude about it could indicate that he thinks the final baddie will not get lynched before the game ends.

[Inziladun]

Eonwe may figure that if he's getting lynched anyway, there's no point in defending himself. But if he is evil, I wonder if his casual attitude about it could indicate that he thinks the final baddie will not get lynched before the game ends.

Oddly enough, Nerwen put up even less of a fight.

[Brinniel]

If we tie the vote we can actually survive both today and tomorrow, thus giving Elendil 2 opportunities to dream.
This late in the Day, trying to create a tie seems too risky. One person could easily mess it up.

[Brinniel]

Oddly enough, Nerwen put up even less of a fight.
I don't think she had time to. She did say earlier in the Day she had to vote early.

[Inziladun]

This late in the Day, trying to create a tie seems too risky. One person could easily mess it up.

I just don't like the idea of the KMs getting a kill later while they stay safe toDay.

x/d with Brinn

[the phantom]

Eonwe may figure that if he's getting lynched anyway, there's no point in defending himself. But if he is evil, I wonder if his casual attitude about it could indicate that he thinks the final baddie will not get lynched before the game ends.
Yeah, it's a little odd to say the least. Morsul seems to be the only one that seems desperate. Now- desperation is seen as guilt by some, but when compared to such... mechanical behavior...

I feel like my hand is sort of being forced here.

[Mänwe]

Frankly Lottie and Morsul both have more strikes against them, but the thing is it's because they've thrown themselves out there a bit more. I can say a greater number of both positive and negative things about them.

There's something to be said in that, but i'm surprised he's been given such an easy ride lately, his style it may be but he's been very erratic this game. Just as hard to pin down as it is someone who hasn't behaved the same way.

[the phantom]

Of course the other reason perhaps Nerwen didn't do a whole lot that day was because she knew Lottie had her pegged and it was all planned, which frankly I'd let them win with that, as it'd be quite an interesting story.

[Loslote]

I almost forgot about DL - if my boy's computer hadn't run out of battery power, forcing me to get off Minecraft, I would have missed it entirely. :o

As it is, though, I made it by the skin of my teeth.

EDIT: xed with Manwe and tp

[Inziladun]

So what are we doing? All in?

[the phantom]

Okay- obviously this thing can't be left in the hands of the unknowns. Morsul already did his part. Now Lottie, Eonwe, and Manwe need to commit, and QUICK.

[Loslote]

++Steve

[Eönwë]

Okay- obviously this thing can't be left in the hands of the unknowns. Morsul already did his part. Now Lottie, Eonwe, and Manwe need to commit, and QUICK.

Tell me who to vote and I will.

edit:well, I can see where this is going.

[the phantom]

Why are they holding their votes anyway, as they know it's between them. Pick your best candidate and go. Even if you're a KM you can't risk leaping in to save your fellow because you'll just get lynched tomorrow.

[Brinniel]

Eonwe, why not make your own decision?

[Loslote]

edit:well, I can see where this is going.

Sorry, but I just don't think a pack of Nerwen, Morsul, and Manwe is as likely as one with you in it.

[Eönwë]

Oh wait, so you're not orchestrating a no-kill, then?

[Mänwe]

If only the village listened-

++Morsul

[Inziladun]

One minute.

Got to highlight, Manwe.

[the phantom]

Let's make this between Steve and Manwe, shall we?

Don't let there be a tie, I suppose.

++ Manwe

[Eönwë]

++Lottie

edit: x-ed with lots

[Brinniel]

++Eonwe

[Inziladun]

++Steve

[Loslote]

You have got to be kidding me. I did *not* expect this wide a spread! :eek:

EDIT: xed with two for Steve. Alright then. Nevermind.

[the phantom]

Manwe gets lynched if the remaining vote for him.

Steve gets lynched if the remaining knowns vote for him.

edit: x-post never mind, it's done

[Eönwë]

Well, ok, that's final then. Have some IC:

Happy people of Amandil
Bear witness to the mindless
Slaughter of our fellow Faithful
Quelled in their attempts for good.
Fortune has abandoned
Our clandestine gathering;
Journeyed from across the
Sacred Isle our gift
Honour binds us as
One.
That some that now stand here
Will not see another Day
Is there method to our madness?
Xenophobic towards the King's Men that
Hunt us in the Night
Is there any place
Of safety I can go?
In this dark hour
For the faithful
Be comforted that we
Have still Elendil
The tall and brave to guide us.
So as we hope to live in peace
And of the Faithless' disguises
Yearn for the truth, I pray to
Ulmo- may he
Grant us the ability of
Clear vision, so this
Evening, I let you take my life to see the truth.

[Galadriel55]

Deadline. Stop posting.

[Inziladun]

Manwe wouldn't have made it, tp.

[the phantom]

He would've if Steve would've voted for him (as I assumed he would to save himself).

(Ah well- the mad rush was partly my fault, as I just couldn't get online soon enough to move things along. Sorry.)

[Galadriel55]

Guys! Shush!




Did they argue a lot again that day?

They did indeed. Even more than usual.

The men really seemed to have gone wild. It got to fist fights. They were on top of each other, and no one knew what was going on. Everyone seemed to accuse everyone at once.

One man claimed the other was guilty because he called him a swine and returned the favour by calling him a dog. The second man decided that actions speak louder than words and promptly punched his suspect in the face. The first man did not wish to be left in debt. Other men tried to pull them apart, but they only got entangled in the fight themselves. Someone sprouted blood out of his nostrils, and another’s beard was half torn out.

“I think you’ve made your point now,” the old man’s voice rang over the chaos like water on fire. He was very displeased. “You’ve even gone a bit too far to get the message home. Before it gets too frightening we ought to call a halt and resume order. Are we some wildmen or lowly savages, that we cannot speak but have a brawl? You are Numenorians! Do not forget yourself!”

The men hung their heads. No one looked at each other. They were humiliated and shamed, and ashamed men do not like to admit their wrong.

Why?

Because it makes them feel more ashamed. They try to push it off on someone else, to make themselves think better of themselves.

Slowly, one by one, they raised their voices, calling out the name of the person who started the fight. Four men stepped forward and took his arms, but he resisted. They could barely keep him from breaking free. He was a very strong, and a very desperate man.

Another man brought a spear. The four holding the accused man were still wrestling with him, so the spearman dared not strike for fear of hitting one of them. Then they pulled the man’s hands apart, so that for a moment he stood erect, with his chest open, and the spearman threw. As the man sunk to his knees and then toppled over, his blood soaking his clothing, a dark cloud took shape above his body, and the Faithful knew him for a King’s Man. Then a wind blew, and the cloud was no more – only a bloody corpse with a spear through it, dead like all those before him.


ALIVE:
Morsul
Inzil
Lottie
Manwe
The Phantom
Brin

DEAD:
G55, the hesitant King’s Man (modess) – stabbed on Night1
Eomer (ordo) – stoned on Day1
Boro (gifted) – drowned on Night2
Pom (ordo) – decapitated on Day2
Shasta (gifted) – throttled on Night3
Nerwen (KM) – hung on Day3
Sally (gifted) – struck by a stone and died of hemorrhage on Night 4
Steve (KM) – speared on Day4

[Galadriel55]

That night no one met on the streets. No one argued about who to kill. No one made plans for the next day’s survival.

The last King’s Man was alone. He waited for all the lights to go out and for everyone to fall asleep, like he did every night. Then he stepped out of his house, and looked with hatred at the surrounding sheds. Any one of them would do. Anyone, to pay the price for the death of his comrades, plots and schemes be damned!

He strode down the street, not bothering to be quiet. The more would come, the better. He needed to give way to his grief and loathing. He needed revenge.

He walked into one of the houses. He did not even know which one. He saw a man lying asleep on the bed.

Taking a cloth, he stuffed it into the man’s mouth. The man woke up, startled, but he was unable to make a sound.

He was gagged?

Yes, and after that the King’s Man bound him hand and foot, before he could even get out of his bed. And he tied a knotted rope around the man’s head and stuck a sturdy stick in there too.

“Tell me now,” the King’s Man said with venom, “the reason for all this fuss. You – voting, arguing, killing each other even. You are still going to die, scum.”

The bound man just looked at him silently. The King’s Man twisted the stick. The rope tightened.

“I said, you are still going to die! You’ve tried so hard, have you not, to weed us out, kill us, and still prevail. You really thought you will succeed, because your cause is right. Because your precious Valar will be with you.” The man laughed. “Where are your Valar now? Are they with you? Well, you’re still going to die.”

“And tell me true now,” the King’s Man continued. “You are afraid to die. For all the words your friends Elves have told you, you cannot deny that death is death. No one is unafraid to die. Not even that man – the first one of your Amandil’s filthy line that I killed – was unafraid. He was just too proud to admit it. And you are not unafraid either. Because you are going to die.”

The King’s Man gave the rod another turn. Still the man did not say anything.

“You don’t want to die, scum,” the old man continued. “No one wants to die. Your death frightens you, and it will be meaningless for the rest of you Faithful scum. Would you not rather have lived? Do not lie: you don’t want to be here right now. You want to go home and rethink your life, and not come to this cursed village at all if you could redo it all. If I could redo my life, I would make sure I killed more of you scum when I had the chance.” The King’s Man gave another yank to the rope. His prisoner was dead.

The old man slowly walked back to his house. He wondered why the man did not say anything at all. Only when he was opening his door he remembered – he gagged the man himself.




ALIVE:
Morsul
Lottie
Manwe
The Phantom
Brin

DEAD:
G55, the hesitant King’s Man (modess) – stabbed on Night1
Eomer (ordo) – stoned on Day1
Boro (gifted) – drowned on Night2
Pom (ordo) – decapitated on Day2
Shasta (gifted) – throttled on Night3
Nerwen (KM) – hung on Day3
Sally (gifted) – struck by a stone and died of hemorrhage on Night 4
Steve (KM) – speared on Day4
Inzil (ordo) – pressed on Night5

[the phantom]

Aw, poor Inzil... And I'm sure he had such a funny story to tell us today.

[the phantom]

Anyway- I'm quite pleased Steve was a KM. That bit of verse he wrote definitely had me worried until the Moddess' announcement went up. Well done.

[the phantom]

So- anyone have anything interesting to say?

[Morsul the Dark]

Aw poor Inzil :(

Should I will I of course I will:

Good News Everyone! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHfOejlvVsY)

I know who the KM is lalalala Ahem sorry, serious business.

I dreamt a dream I'll tell you all
In which I saw an Innocent Tall
Hair flowing in the breeze
Gosh just the bee's knees
I'm making this verse up as I go
So let me skip to what I know
Lottie is clean nice and kind
Manwe is the one with the axe to grind

Even better news if I'm Lying you lynch me tomorrow and win anyway!!!

Shall I begin?

++Manwe

Edit x'ed Phantom

[Brinniel]

So if Elendil is still alive, one of the unknowns should have received a dream. If an innocent dreamed, we could have a known baddie or innocent. If a baddie dreamed, we could have at least a known innocent...unless the baddie chooses to not say anything to make us believe that Elendil is not alive.

EDIT: X-ed

[the phantom]

But wait...

If Morsul dreamed Lottie, then wouldn't that make Manwe Elendil?

(Elendil can't dream or be a dream target, obviously.)

[Morsul the Dark]

I thought it was you phantom...

It must be Brinn then.

I'm Innocent Lottie's innocent you're innocent Brin is innocent... Manwe is last.

But wait you had a dream of Brinn
Brinn didn't you dream phantom?

wait... what's happening?

[the phantom]

As far as my theory on who Elendil is, you'll find it here (http://youtu.be/TdrEmZ35fxc?t=1m37s)- declaring it specifically around the 1:54 mark. (One of my favorite songs from Camelot. ;) )

(edit: adjust video)

[Morsul the Dark]

shasta dreamed phantom so Brinn has to be erendil

x'ed Phantom

[Morsul the Dark]

As far as my theory on who Elendil is, you'll find it here (http://youtu.be/TdrEmZ35fxc?t=57s) around the 1:25 mark. (One of my favorite songs from Camelot. ;) )


very humble sir, humble.:rolleyes:

[the phantom]

*chuckles*

I was going to let Inzil do the reveal had he survived the night. Poor chap knew pretty well since Shasta died, but I wanted him to keep it quiet. What's a game without a good mystery? :D

[the phantom]

Yeah, Shasta actually dreamed Boro, but I managed to say just enough to get him to take the big risk and declare me as his dream instead, and I picked it up and ran with it, pretending that I had been the one to dream Brin rather than Boro.

[Morsul the Dark]

*chuckles*

I was going to let Inzil do the reveal had he survived the night. Poor chap knew pretty well since Shasta died, but I wanted him to keep it quiet. What's a game without a good mystery? :D

You took boro's dream and ran as if it was yours. I bow to you.

if I fall asleep this moment I have 5 hours of sleep before work... but who can sleep at such a time as this?

[the phantom]

Fyi, I tried to get Sally to dream of you the night she died, primarily so I could tease her about dreaming of Morsul all night, heh heh. :p

[Morsul the Dark]

Fyi, I tried to get Sally to dream of you the night she died, primarily so I could tease her about dreaming of Morsul all night, heh heh. :p

Honestly to be real for a moment, I tried very hard to not go after her this game, we certainly didn't part on good terms which is a shame she's a good person. I hoped two years of time would be enough to forgive and forget. The first post I mentioned not getting tunnel vision applied pretty much to her...

anywho, any takers on Manwe?

[Brinniel]

phantom, I did figure it was probably you yesterDay, and that you bluffed dreaming of me (and Boro was the dreamer). But where I got stuck is on how could Shasta dream of you. But now that you've explained it...

Though if no one actually did dream of you, that means technically you were never a known innocent, heh.

[Brinniel]

I'd still like to see Manwe's reaction before taking further action. Regardless of the situation, it's never fun to lynch someone so early in the Day before they even have the chance to defend themselves.

[the phantom]

that means technically you were never a known innocent, heh.
Yeah, that was the weird part when I actually stopped to think about it.
I tried very hard to not go after her this game
Well hey, neither of you lynched the other, so that's a step forward, right? :D

As far as proving I'm Elendil, I decided I'd use the line "7 ships, 7 stars, and 1 white tree" as the key, seeing as it was appropriate for Elendil.

My third post doesn't fit the pattern- I was very tired and posted it without thinking, but I remembered to follow the pattern in my other posts. The pattern? 7-7-1

7th letter of 1st post = E
7th letter of 2nd post = L
1st letter of 4th post = E
7th letter of 5th post = N
7th letter of 6th post = D
1st letter of 7th post = I
7th letter of 8th post = L

I figured that ought to be proof enough if I had to reveal at some point, though once I became a "known" innocent it really wasn't necessary.

[the phantom]

I'd still like to see Manwe's reaction before taking further action. Regardless of the situation, it's never fun to lynch someone so early in the Day before they even have the chance to defend themselves.
Quite right. I won't cast my vote until tomorrow evening.

But I will be going to bed earlier than usual. I'm short on sleep and really need decent rest tonight.

Good night.

[Morsul the Dark]

Yeah, that was the weird part when I actually stopped to think about it.

Well hey, neither of you lynched the other, so that's a step forward, right? :D

As far as proving I'm Elendil, I decided I'd use the line "7 ships, 7 stars, and 1 white tree" as the key, seeing as it was appropriate for Elendil.

My third post doesn't fit the pattern- I was very tired and posted it without thinking, but I remembered to follow the pattern in my other posts. The pattern? 7-7-1

7th letter of 1st post = E
7th letter of 2nd post = L
1st letter of 4th post = E
7th letter of 5th post = N
7th letter of 6th post = D
1st letter of 7th post = I
7th letter of 8th post = L

I figured that ought to be proof enough if I had to reveal at some point, though once I became a "known" innocent it really wasn't necessary.

I'm having flashbacks of SaucePanMan's cryptic Clues... It's SOOO obvious now.

Although it explains a post you did a while back with certain letters(I think it was about Boro) only post you made that had scratching my head saying "I can pick random letters too and say it means something"

[Mänwe]

Gah, i'd wager the old man was wishing he'd listened to his selfish side all night now. Still, if he dies I suppose he's spared Elendil's interminable gloating.

++Morsul

[Galadriel55]

It's been 10 hours and not a single post. Wow.

[the phantom]

Sorry, Moddess. :( I would've made a lot of posts today with insane theories on how each of us could conceivably be the final KM, but this 20 minutes is my only freedom until I get home after tonight. (8:45ish)

[Galadriel55]

Sorry, Moddess. :( I would've made a lot of posts today with insane theories on how each of us could conceivably be the final KM, but this 20 minutes is my only freedom until I get home after tonight. (8:45ish)

Don't worry about it. I just found it surprising after all those Days when I came home and barely had time to skim the thread for the amount of posts.

[Loslote]

Well! Since it looks ridiculously likely that the last KM is either Manwe or Morsul, I'll just go ahead and

++Manwe

Since I don't know with complete certainty that I'll be back before DL (I have work and class until 10, and class often goes until 10:15 or 10:20 or later).

[Morsul the Dark]

I think phantom has been lying the whole time he's the last KM. and here's why...

he... uh.... he umm... and then...

And Brinn don't even get me started on that girl, with her making sense and innocent dreams, and fancy shmancy "proof" clearly a KM

Lottie I think the valar lied to me. Never trusted that Ulmo. whith his wateryness and such.

I think there might not even be a KM left at all this is one of those experimental games, where we keep lynching people and nothing happens!

Can you feel it? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CS7j5I6aOc)

[Morsul the Dark]

Not much Moddess but I figured I'd try :)

Sort of said everything I had in the first post...

[the phantom]

Manwe is the final KM- if Morsul is telling the truth.

Morsul is the final KM- If Manwe ends up innocent in the lynch then naturally we must lynch Morsul tomorrow.

Lottie is the final KM- If Morsul misread his dream or the Moddess mistyped it. :p

Brin is the final KM- What if Boro found her to be a KM on Day 1 but figured he'd throw them off the scent and preserve his life by painting her as innocent instead, figuring he'd get the opposite message across to me at a later time....

Phantom is the final KM- The real Elendil is just biding her time, waiting for me to think I've gotten away with the ruse. Okay, no, that's kind of weak....

[the phantom]

We offed the herald- now we can off the big man himself.

++ Manwe

Mwu ha ha! Down with the Valar!

Erm... wait, wait- that's what the King's Men are supposed to say. Um... I think in the course of events we all ended up on the opposite side somehow.

The KMs are the good guys, while the "Faithful" have evil sounding names, like Morsul, and Phantom, and Erin.

*sigh* Win the battle but lose the war...

[the phantom]

And a special shout-out to composer Joe Hisaishi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hisaishi), who is 62 years old today. Some of his more famous film scores include Laputa (http://youtu.be/-kR2dokH6-Y?t=20s) (Castle in the Sky), Howl's Moving Castle (http://youtu.be/31nOaXSeqSo?t=1m10s), and Spirited Away (http://youtu.be/hCpFeE68Yjg?t=56s).

Many happy returns! :)

[the phantom]

And Happy Birthday to anyone else having a birthday today, naturally. ;)

[Brinniel]

I might as well vote...

++Manwe

[Galadriel55]

Sorry guys, got sidetracked by endless phonecalls and "serious talks"! :(

This, however, is too awesome to do without a narration. It's comin'.

[Galadriel55]

After two more phonecalls (can't they pick another time?...)


“’Tis the Valar’s hand!” cried the villagers in happiness. “This is the last day!”

By the dreams that the Valar have sent to the people they have found the last King’s Man. The old man stood alone and abandoned.

Why did he not remove a different person? Why did he not kill Elendil last night? Mayhap he would have saved himself. But he left the first for another day, and did not suspect the second. Too late is too late.

The villagers seemed to have forgotten about the old man, whom they heeded, whose advice they followed, and who in the end betrayed them. He glanced around with resentment. Then, with surprising agility, he darted off. A cry was raised immediately, and people started after him.

He did not go far. He ran into the forest, forgetting all care. A root tripped his foot. He slipped and rolled downwards off a steep hill. When the other men caught up with him he was in no condition to run anymore.

“Yes, I killed your friends,” he said hoarsely. “I waged war against you and your kind for who you are, and I do not regret it. There is but one thing that I regret. All of yours that died at my hands died with a purpose, for a purpose. They knew their death had meaning. They knew their death is not for nothing. But what is my death? Have I defeated you, or helped defeat you? Nay! I hated you, and I hate you still. Yet there is truth in what your men speak before they breathe their last breath. There is truth.”

With these words he died. Like twice before him, a black mist rose over his body. It floated up, and slowly faded out to nothingness.


ALIVE:
Morsul
Lottie
The Phantom
Brin

DEAD:
G55, the hesitant King’s Man (modess) – stabbed on Night1
Eomer (ordo) – stoned on Day1
Boro (gifted) – drowned on Night2
Pom (ordo) – decapitated on Day2
Shasta (gifted) – throttled on Night3
Nerwen (KM) – hung on Day3
Sally (gifted) – struck by a stone and died of hemorrhage on Night 4
Steve (KM) – speared on Day4
Inzil (ordo) – pressed on Night5
Manwe (KM) – fell on Day5

VILLAGE WINS!!!


And there was nothing more?

And there was nothing more.

But... wait, did you not say that Anarion, Amandil, and Isildur all died? How then are we?...

You stupid! Of course they did not really die in a stupid village because of some stupid King’s Man trio, because otherwise you would of course not be here today.

You mean... you were making it all up?!

But yes, Faramir! It’s boring to read the same scroll over and over again for the umpteenth time. I want to make it more fun.

That is not right, Boromir! That is not what it really was! You cannot substitute your own inventions for our history!

I can too if I want to!

Cannot!

Can too!

Cannot!

Can too!

*curtain falls as Boromir and Faramir continue arguing*


Post-game discussion begins here.

You may now send me a PM with your answers for the reference thingy. There is one reference for each narration. The person to name the most wins. I'll accept PMs for the next three or four days, and then just give the answers.

[Loslote]

Congrats, all! And thanks for a lovely game, G55! :D

I do believe this is the third end-game I have ever been alive for. :smokin:

Oh! And I totally thought tp was Anarion for the longest time (up until Sally died and was revealed a gifted, anyway). I had a feeling Brinn was Elendil, but I wasn't nearly as sure.

[Pomegranate]

Whoa. Good game, Gal, thanks guys for playing! Even though you lynched me when I was unable to defend myself. Because of not having the chance during the game, I shall post my comments now. I felt unreasonably suspected.

"Okay, I said I don't like the argument of not adding new people. I admit, I wasn't there at the time, and didn't check until afterwards how close that was to the deadline. I still think it's a comment not really worth mentioning, but I never said I actually suspected it. And I still think that the mass suspicion of Morsul without any votes was a bit weird.

On being flimsy: I didn't have much time, I wanted to vote for someone who voted for Eomer because it felt like the easiest distinction to make at that point. After going through the people who were involved, I had loads of material on Sally, and nothing on the other two. Thus her. Had I stayed, I would've gone through more people, but I couldn't."

To be honest, I thought I was safe. When I came home on Friday evening and started catching up, it was very close I didn't send a message "here, catching up" - gladly I decided to play safe and checked, to realise that I wasn't alive anymore. It was probably for the best - so much happened while I was gone, I would've been very much baffled to come up with any reasonable comments.

[Coppermirror]

I've been reading this game keenly all the way through, and it was just as good as I'd hoped! I was green with envy for not having the time to play myself this round. The premise for the Gifted in this game made things very interesting.

You were all excellent. I particularly liked the Elendil revelation. That must have taken such a lot of subtlety of communication between Elendil and the first dreamer; I'm very impressed.

It was a tough game for the wolves, wasn't it? Even though the wolves didn't seem to make many mistakes.

[Inziladun]

Excellent! It's nice as an innocent to occasionally be done in by baddies instead of a lynch. ;)

I knew of course that phantom was the Heir. I didn't know which heir, though. It helped greatly that he was already considered a "known" innocent, as I could make a show of trusting him without it looking suspicious. I all but outright asked him if he wanted me to out him.
The last Night I was alive, I spent quite a bit of time looking over things, and I was pretty well convinced Mänwe was the final KM. I thought there was at least a decent chance I'd be killed to keep me from revealing the Heir.
That was a valiant fight, KMs. I doubt Nerwen would have been lynched if not for the dream, and that was the break we needed.

Great game G55, certainly something different. :)

[Loslote]

tp: Why did you send the dream to me?

[Boromir88]

I wish I had the gall to use my self protect night 1...as if the KMs situation wouldn't have been bad enough. Excellent game and role design G55, I think with the way we could use Elendil's dreams it knocked the game off balance. But don't get too down, it was experimental with some really interesting roles, and had it been large enough to keep a Cursed Cobbler, then there would be some real Day 1 and early going fireworks. :p

After realizing the dream plan, my main focus was make sure a dream happened thus guard Shasta night 1. And then dupe the wolves into coming after me on a night I would use my self-protection, but I painted that "Come kill me sign" a bit too early, and didn't have the riskyness to use it Night 1. I liked the making me look like Elendil the day after, quite fantastic Shasta and tp.

[Pomegranate]

Oh yeah, boldly played, Phantom and Shasta. I tried to figure out that situation after my death, and everything else was traceable, but I couldn't figure out why Shasta would say he dreamed of Phantom, why he would trust enough. It worked, gladly.

[the phantom]

Wow, now that was an interesting game. I'm glad I played- even if it did wreck my schedule a bit.

Shasta- major kudos to you. On Day 2 I really didn't know which way things were going to swing, so I was attempting to lay groundwork for various forks the game could take. I knew the bluffed dream was a possibility, but I didn't have my heart set on it, for I knew it might be difficult for you to bring yourself to trust me so far that you would risk handing me the game (if I was a KM). But you took the risk- and it paid off. Thanks much! I'd love to hear what all you were thinking at the time.

And way to keep the cards close, Inzil. As I said on the final day, I was totally going to let you do my reveal for me in thanks for not outing me earlier, but unfortunately you died first.
tp: Why did you send the dream to me?
I had lists put together for potential KM packs and you were on too many of them compared to how guilty I actually believed you to be. I suspected you more of being Isildur than being a KM in fact- thus ruling you out would be rather useful to me, as it left Nerwen in every remaining pack, and I suspected her strongly.

I debated a lot on who to send you, though. Even though assuming you innocent left Nerwen as the obvious choice, I was wanting to get Morsul ruled out as well, as I saw him as one that was likely to get lynched and likely to be innocent. I very nearly picked him as the dream.

But the main problem I saw with that was that would leave the lynch target open. If it came down to Nerwen and Inzil I would've been pleased, as Inzil was the other high-occurrence KM besides Lottie and he didn't look so clean, and I felt that finding him innocent via lynch would at the least tell me that Steve was in the pack, where as at the moment I was inclined to leave Steve out (I wondered if he was more in the mold with Morsul as far as being a lynching distraction).

In the end it came down to playing the odds- I felt we just really needed a correct lynch. So I sent my big suspect to the most trustworthy unknown and hoped the gamble paid off. If I was right then I thought it would really help because I felt Nerwen was the biggest threat to a positive lynch outcome, in the sense that she could spear-head efforts to herd the sheep in the wrong direction.

(Of course it did occur to me to send the dream to Shasta or Brin, but I figured the KMs would try and kill them, particularly after I'd spent the entire day planting the idea that Shasta was the obvious kill.)

Anyway- it worked out, and all's well as ends well, right? :)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Good game, everyone. :)

Phantom - A lot of that day had me wavering back and forth, but I knew with the death of a gifted Boro (and the fact that he'd been the dream, meaning we were down one dream already) that the innocents needed some way to come back. With you having come up with the dream plan mechanic, I couldn't see any reason a KM-phantom would have done something so detrimental to the baddies, so I took a leap of faith (knowing that, if you were a KM, I was handing you the game did nothing to help me sleep at night!). I almost came back at the last second of the Day and spoiled the ruse, but I knew you were working extra hard to get the KMs to attack me at night - therefore, you were clearly Anarion and going to protect me. :rolleyes:

[Kuruharan]

I started reading through this game during some idle time at work and was hooked.

It was a most riveting game.

Very well played, and of course, the twist of the known innocent still being innocent...but not actually being known. :D

[Galadriel55]

Firstly, good job innocents! You did some marvelous wolf-detecting. And the whole mental limbo with the dreams was a stroke of genious on Shasta's part. Kudos to you.

KMs, I was very impressed with your knack for knocking the gifteds! It was kinda scary, looking at the kill at Night and thinking "what? ANOTHER one? AGAIN?". Refreshing the page every few seconds about 2 minutes before DL was a bit nervewracking, though. :D You were awesome, and you put up a good fight despite the unbalanced conditions.

As for that part, I sincerely apologize to both the wolves and the village for not thinking the logistics through. The lesson learnt from that: do not start an experimental game the first time you mod unless you've had it reviewed and approved by all of the ancient WW-playing community. :p I hope you enjoyed the narrations, though.

Once again, well done everyone! You were very entertaining, and even though I was a bit pressed for time and only skimmed the thread lately it was fun to see first the mix up with the dreams, and then the final reveals... And every once in a while I chuckled when on a suspicion list all the KMs were under one group but the wrong one...

[Brinniel]

During one of the last Days, it dawned on me that Elendil just had to be phantom. After all, Inzil knew who Elendil was so it wouldn't make sense to list Manwe and Eonwe as likely baddies. That left Morsul, who I just couldn't believe would be gifted. And it would be so typical of phantom to sneak by the baddies as a gifted without them realizing it. But I kept getting stuck on the fact that Shasta couldn't have dreamed of phantom were he Elendil. Faking a dream as a known innocent is certainly a risky move and I wasn't sure if Shasta would be so bold. But he was, so kudos to him on that.

As for that part, I sincerely apologize to both the wolves and the village for not thinking the logistics through. The lesson learnt from that: do not start an experimental game the first time you mod unless you've had it reviewed and approved by all of the ancient WW-playing community.
I do think it would've been more balanced if you had a larger village with the Cursed Cobbler as intended. Don't worry if things didn't play out quite as planned; both games I modded didn't go as I planned (in fact, they were disasters). I think modding really is a learning experience. Nevertheless, this has been a fun game and I'm sure most other players would agree.

Anyway, this was an enjoyable return after a long absence from WW. Certainly a better ending than my last game.

[satansaloser2005]

Hurrah! Glad to see this ended in a village victory, although the villains were clever and certainly would have deserved the win if they'd taken it.

I painted that "Come kill me sign" a bit too early

Same here, to some extent, though, as I expected, I haven't had a chance to read the thread since this weekend. I knew there was no way I'd be around Tuesday, so I'm glad the baddies took the flail bait and killed me instead of someone more useful (or at least more available). Except, you know, someone made me think about Morsul as I lay dying.... :eek:

I had already intended to put myself up for a kill since I thought the game was going to go more than another Day (see above), but I over-over-hinted as a knee jerk to Phantom terrorizing me (you jerk), and I couldn't decide whether Dun was holding his cards because he knew someone else or because Phantom was telling him not to. Of course it was both, because Phantom. :rolleyes: Sadly the dream rules change turned this from a suicidal protective maneuver into one that was in fact detrimental to the village, but given how much the innocents broke the game, I think it's only fair we had a wrench thrown at our heads....um, I mean plans.

If a game like this is tried again, I recommend the mod think about how the players may abuse the setup and plan accordingly. It's impossible to think of every loophole, but I think further limitations on the dreams (for instance, being able to send to a target no more than twice during the entire game, and perhaps even limiting that to only being able to double target one person the entire game) would have made it much more difficult to manipulate the system. Then again, Phantom tends to find a way to break anything....

Well played by all. More thoughts later, perhaps, but it's been quite a long (but enjoyable) day, and I need some sleep.

[the phantom]

I don't know why everyone seems convinced the setup was broken or unbalanced in some way. The fact is even playing it the way we did it took an extremely gutsy risk by Shasta and a well-played continuation of his risk by me and a gutsy risk in choosing Lottie for a dream in order to win this thing. Despite our good luck and good play we villagers were possibly one Night-kill choice away from losing this game.

What if instead of killing Shasta that night they kill me? Frankly it's what I expected despite all my efforts to push the kill-choice towards Shasta. Because killing him didn't help the KMs at all- due to his Amandil power it instead just transferred known-innocent status from him to Inzil, thus reducing the potential lynching pool.

Killing me and leaving Shasta alive on the other hand would have cut the knowns down to 2 and killing Brin the next night would've left it at 1, and given that population and the dynamics that existed I suspect Morsul would have gotten lynched at some point, and then it would be down to one final day in which all the innocents had to vote correctly and together to keep the Baddies from winning. In other words, if Steve or Manwe could manage to lynch either Inzil or Lottie ahead of them, game over. In fact, if Morsul had gotten lynched the day after Nerwen then Steve and Manwe could've potentially won the game with both of them still alive! A fairly resounding victory.

And frankly this is all you can ask for in terms of balance- if it can come down to a final day and innocents have to decide between a Baddie and an unknown innocent, then you did it right.

[Galadriel55]

D0 – “whilst there is still one voice to cry” – There’ll Always Be An England
N1 – “Be bloody, bold, and resolute. Laugh to scorn the power on man, for none of woman-born shall harm Macbeth” – Shakespeare, Macbeth.
D1 – “I think, therefore I am” – Descartes
N2 – “Life? Bah! It has no value. Of cheap things it is the cheapest.” – Wolf Larsen, Jack London, The Sea Wolf
D2 – “I’m a good boy, I am!” – “I’m a good girl, I am” – G.B. Shaw, Pygmalion, OR My Fair Lady, Eliza.
N3 – “We are not amused” – Queen Victoria
D3 – “Had you fought like a man, you need not have been hang'd like a dog” – Anne Bonny
N4 – “The things I do for love” – G.R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones, Jaime Lannister
D4 – “I think you've made your point now / You’ve even gone a bit too far to get the message home. / Before it gets too frightening we ought to call a halt” – Jesus Christ Superstar, Peter (Could we start again please)
N5 – “You don’t want to ___. You want to go home and rethink your life.” – Obi-Wan Kenobi, Episode II, Star Wars
D5 – “I left the first for another day” – Robert Frost, A Road Not Taken


If you have had an inkling about any one of them, count yourself a winner. :)