WW CI - Mutton yesterDay, mutton toDay and mutton toMorrow

[Inziladun]

First post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679863&postcount=9): Banter, with a comment about Kath maybe calling out Ozban as a Wizard. Looks lighthearted on the surface, though I would not think it wise to draw attention to something like that, myself.

#2 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679866&postcount=12): Response to Rikae with more banter.

#3 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680001&postcount=121): Likes Greenie, Rikae, and Nog. Says of Pom "Pom feels like she's trying to be reasonable and agreeable while actually being nothing of the sort, which makes me raise my eyebrows a bit. I'd have to say she's my top suspect right now."

#4 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680008&postcount=128): Concludes Cab is more like an ordo than a wolf.

#5 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680011&postcount=131): Votes Pom (second vote) because she didn't agree with the bandwagons on Cop, Gil, and Cab.

#6 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680060&postcount=155): Casts a little suspicion on Nog because "He seems to be in favor of lynching Pom, but he's at the same time trying to push another candidate. As the situation sat, he'd just tied the two with Bane at least both around and still to vote. If he wanted to save a packmate without taking any ridiculous risks, that would be the way to go."

#7 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680080&postcount=169): Calls out Morsul for calling Cab "innocent", and for suspecting her for her Pom-vote.

#8 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680114&postcount=194): Responds to Nerwen's words about Nog possibly being the Traitor. Agrees it's possible.

#9 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680139&postcount=216): Votes Morsul, for the earlier suspicions she raised and because she thought Nog was more likely to be the Traitor.

#10 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680233&postcount=272): Reacts to Volo's death. Jokes that it must mean Boro's a Wizard.

#11 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680334&postcount=345): Makes a list of the Night 1 and Night 2 votes. Concludes Nerwen is suspicious.

#12 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680336&postcount=347): Argues with Nerwen about Rikae. Says the former looks like a Wizard "taking advantage of an easy kill."

#13 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680340&postcount=350): Still defending Rikae from Nerwen.

#14 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680381&postcount=385): Votes Nerwen for earlier suspicions, and apparently to save Rikae.

#15 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680383&postcount=386): Doesn't like Boro's vote for Greenie (which he'd done for Greenie's unexplained suspicion of him.

#16 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680515&postcount=465): Says Nerwen is still suspicious, but now so is Gil.

#17 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680525&postcount=472): Doesn't think Gil and Nerwen are both evil.

#18 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680556&postcount=484): Questions Morsul for suspecting her for thinking Gil suspicious.

#19 (looks half like a wolf trying to a) incriminate Nerwen or b) make her look good.): Votes Gil, saying he "looks half like a wolf trying to a) incriminate Nerwen or b) make her look good."

And that's it thus far. Conclusions to follow.

[Nerwen]

Terrible luck yesterDay.

I suggest that each of us does an analysis on at least two people, if possible. Maybe take the next two people down on the alphabetical list, or something like that. (So for me, that would be Inzil and Kath.) I'll be back later to work on that.
So that would be Morsul and Nog for me? I'll see what I can do, but the trouble is I'm very pressed for time toDay.

[Nerwen]

Except I haven't 'poked' at him any more than anyone else has. He just suddenly started screaming that I was persecuting him- why me rather than others I don't know. See for yourself: the "Nerwen-Gil" drama is of Gil's making, not mine.
Fair enough. In this case, it is mostly Gil. Option 2 is probably much less likely than Option 4, though I still don't think a wolf!Gil and an innocent![/b]Nerwen[/b] would be acting like this.
Zil, at your #17 there, I'm pretty sure she's saying she thinks we are both wolves.

I'll just check what the "options" were.

[Nerwen]

Yes. Option #2 is I'm a wolf and Gil's innocent. Option#4 is we're both wolves.

So I'm a wolf regardless, apparently. This looks a bit too much like a two-for-one deal for my taste.

Although, I can't blame anyone else for thinking Gil was trying a wolf-on-wolf attack on me. It looked just like one.

[Inziladun]

Yes. Option #2 is I'm a wolf and Gil's innocent. Option#4 is we're both wolves.

Hm. This is the line: "though I still don't think a wolf!Gil and an innocent!/Nerwen would be acting like this."

I read that as saying you both could be either/or. Maybe Lottie herself can explain for certain.

Although, I can't blame anyone else for thinking Gil was trying a wolf-on-wolf attack on me. It looked just like one.

Gil was switching targets very rapidly and looking squirrelly, which was really the icing on the cake that got me voting for him.

[Loslote]

Hm. This is the line: "though I still don't think a wolf!Gil and an innocent!/Nerwen would be acting like this."

I read that as saying you both could be either/or. Maybe Lottie herself can explain for certain.

I meant, I don't think this behavior is likely if Gil is a wolf and Nerwen is an innocent. Considering I was pretty sure (wrongly, as it happens) that Gil was a wolf, I didn't think it likely that Nerwen could be innocent. Since it turns out Gil is not a wolf, my suspicions on Nerwen are starting to seem less likely.

[Rikae]

I'm surprised I'm not dead. That's actually why I didn't even look until now.

Anyway, I can't believe Brinn posted like that and didn't dream Gil. I suppose there might have been some wishful thinking involved on our parts, though; this means she most likely didn't dream any wolves or leave any clear hints about the innocents she dreamed (except me, but I guess the wolves are counting on people doubting that now; or perhaps I'm enough on the wrong track that they think I'll be helpful in leading people astray?)

Be back later. I don't know what to think now, so it's really back to the drawing board.

[Inziladun]

Overall I'm not inclined to think Lottie evil. Her suspicions and votes have been seemingly consistent, and she's coming across as an innocent Lottie. It's also very unlikely she'd be packmates with either Morsul or Nerwen.

x/d with Rikae

[Inziladun]

No one's mentioned the Wizards' kill choice yesterDay, I don't think.

Greenie wasn't around last Night due to connection issues. I'll try to take a look back and see if there's anything she'd said earlier that might shed any light.

[Inziladun]

I don't see anything in Greenie's previous Night posts that strikes me. She's really back-and-forth on her suspicions though.

It turns out she did make one post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680507&postcount=459) the last Night, but there doesn't seem to be much to it.

She responds to Cop questioning her about why she wouldn't elaborate on her suspicions on Boro the Night he was lynched. He answer was that she thought Cop might be the Clever Troll who had dreamed him. She then said that Brinn being the Clever Troll put Rikae in the clear and thought it unlikely Gil, and especially Nog, were dreamed by Brinn.

She ended by questioning Nerwen's positing that Brinn may have hinted that she was going to dream Nog.

[McCaber]

One more bad lynch and it's over, I think. 10 players, 7:3 good to evil.

Do't we have this one and one more if the ranger doesn't get any more saves? Last I played it was when villagers = wolves that we lost. Of course, I've been gone for a while so I might be misremembering.

Anyway, I've got to look at Morsul and Nerwen? I can do that, I think.

[Morsul the Dark]

Ok, I have to work in the morning and won't be around before deadline so I have pretty much the next hour and maybe an hour in the morning.

I'm probably not going to vote today because it would be a fairly hasty decision and based on the same evidence I had yesterday.

I will say this though unless we're blessed with a clever/lucky purseholder we have toNight and the next to get the lynch right otherwise we lose.

Did I not warn of that scenario yesterday Gil and Morsul easy lynches suddenly the villageis one lynch away from a loss and with three wizards that'd be pretty easy to arrange one wrong vote they bandwagon and poof the end.

If you can tell I'm not exactly sunshiney and happy today I'll do what I can to help But honestly my list in no particular order of suspiciousness.

Lottie
Sally
Nerwen or Nog

Edit: x'ed with McCab yeah I meant ranger but the purseholder is still in play so there's that...

[Morsul the Dark]

So that would be Morsul and Nog for me? I'll see what I can do, but the trouble is I'm very pressed for time toDay.

Actually Nog and Rikae.

[Nerwen]

Did I not warn of that scenario yesterday Gil and Morsul easy lynches suddenly the villageis one lynch away from a loss and with three wizards that'd be pretty easy to arrange one wrong vote they bandwagon and poof the end.
The trouble is, though some people might have been ready to lynch Gil on the supposition he had been dreamed, what really did for him was the way he acted yesterDay. I don't think I've ever seen an innocent act that much like a flailing wolf.

And that's the trouble. Wolfish votes for him are going to be hard to pick- I mean they probably won't look opportunistic or unreasoned.

[Inziladun]

Do't we have this one and one more if the ranger doesn't get any more saves? Last I played it was when villagers = wolves that we lost. Of course, I've been gone for a while so I might be misremembering.

Wouldn't an innocent lynch toNight make it 6:3?

I'm probably not going to vote today because it would be a fairly hasty decision and based on the same evidence I had yesterday.

You're not going to vote? Or maybe you mean "today" as in RL day.

I will say this though unless we're blessed with a clever/lucky purseholder we have toNight and the next to get the lynch right otherwise we lose.

Did I not warn of that scenario yesterday Gil and Morsul easy lynches suddenly the villageis one lynch away from a loss and with three wizards that'd be pretty easy to arrange one wrong vote they bandwagon and poof the end.

Aren't you making contradictory conclusions there?

[Morsul the Dark]

I mean RL Between now and DL I havea total of maybe two hours tops.

How are the contradicting they both amount to we might only have two lynches left before we lose...

edit: this is in response to Zil if not clear

[Morsul the Dark]

The trouble is, though some people might have been ready to lynch Gil on the supposition he had been dreamed, what really did for him was the way he acted yesterDay. I don't think I've ever seen an innocent act that much like a flailing wolf.

And that's the trouble. Wolfish votes for him are going to be hard to pick- I mean they probably won't look opportunistic or unreasoned.

Except the one who said nothing except he's a bit suspicious and voted for him when the wind changed. That vote looked pretty opportunistic to me.

[McCaber]

Wouldn't an innocent lynch toNight make it 6:3?
Yes, and unless I'm greatly mistaken it would need to be 3 villagers to 3 wolves for us to lose, as opposed to the 6 villagers to 3 wolves we'd have if we missed our lynch today.

Can I please get an official clarification on this?

[Inziladun]

I mean RL Between now and DL I havea total of maybe two hours tops.

How are the contradicting they both amount to we might only have two lynches left before we lose...

edit: this is in response to Zil if not clear

Yes, and unless I'm greatly mistaken it would need to be 3 villagers to 3 wolves for us to lose, as opposed to the 6 villagers to 3 wolves we'd have if we missed our lynch today.

Can I please get an official clarification on this?

Man, this incoming weather and tiredness are getting to me. It's obviously time for bed. :rolleyes:

[Inziladun]

Tomorrow is looking to be pretty hectic, but I'll get in here when I can. Hopefully with a less distracted mind.

[Morsul the Dark]

Yes, and unless I'm greatly mistaken it would need to be 3 villagers to 3 wolves for us to lose, as opposed to the 6 villagers to 3 wolves we'd have if we missed our lynch today.

Can I please get an official clarification on this?

6-3missed lynch
5-3Wizard kill
4-3missed lynch
3-3wizard kill

that's the math I've got

[Rikae]

I'm strongly considering voting for Morsul:

-for trying to lump himself in with Gil yesterday as an "easy lynch".
-for the countdown to a wizard victory. Yes, it's just the facts, but something about the way he posted looks like counting down to his own win. I can't put my finger on what that "something" is, but it feels wrong.

[Coppermirror]

This is my analysis of Inzil and Kath so far, going up to about page 10. I'm getting a bit tired, so I just want to post what I have so far. After a little bit I'll come back and finish the rest and make my conclusions.

Inzil

Votes
Day 1: Pom
Day 2: Ozban
Day 3: Gil
Day 4: Gil

#6 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679860&postcount=6) - banter.

#14 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679870&postcount=14) - banter. Says it's those who aren't up to no good who we have to worry about.

#23 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679882&postcount=23) - disagrees with Morsul, who had talked about something Pom said as a suggestion, saying "I wouldn't call it a "suggestion". A standard Day 1 statement, more like". I think it's unlikely that both Morsul and Inzil would be wizards and chatting about Pom-wizard like this on the very first page.

#71 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679942&postcount=71) - Decides to stop banter for now. Thinks that Morsul's vote is a stretch but wasn't too bad for a Day 1 vote. Jokes with Rikae about suspecting/voting for each other.

#78 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679952&postcount=78) - doesn't like Gil's vote reasoning.

#105 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679984&postcount=105) - vote count so far, and comments on oddness of Pom's comment.

#127 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680007&postcount=127) - votes Pom. Was willing to give Gil a pass, and didn't feel keen on voting Nerwen. He was the first voter for Pom. Would a wizard be the first voter for her? Maybe, but it's more likely that they wouldn't.

#153 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680058&postcount=153) - wonders if the wizards were among the Pom voters or outside them or in both.

#160 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680066&postcount=160) - Wants to look more closely at Nog, and wants to look at the McCaber voters. He thinks that the first of these was Rikae, whose vote he thought looked fairly innocent.

#170 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680081&postcount=170) - Comments on Morsul's placement of Lottie as his top suspicion. Fairly noncommittal but thinks she could have avoided voting for a mate entirely. Then comments on Morsul's opinion that if Lottie is a wizard, Nog may be cleared, agreeing that if the two were mates she would surely have come up with others to suspect. Then he comments on Nerwen's Pom analysis.

#171 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680082&postcount=171) - Responds to Lottie, saying she's not his top suspect for the day.

#198 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680120&postcount=198) - Says that common sense means that I'm unlikely to be a wizard, as there's no reason for Pom to have voted that way otherwise. Decides to focus on those who might have tried to save Pom: Boro, Volo, Nog.

#208 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680131&postcount=208) - Recaps votes. Gives impressions of each person's vote.

People he things look good: me, Rikae, Lottie, Shasta-innocent.
Of Greenie-innocent, thought that she could look bandwagony but her reasoning was good.
Thought that Ozban-innocent looked bad.
Concludes that the person whose vote looks worst from a Pom-saving perspective is Nog.

#235 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680162&postcount=235) - wonders who to vote for. Likes Nog's explanation, doesn't want to vote Boro in the latter's absence, and thinks Volo's vote was the least suspicious of the three. Suspicious of Gil's vote. Could vote for Ozban, and thinks the Morsul vote looks rather fabricated. (Hmm. Makes me wonder if my conclusion that there couldn't be a Morsul-Inzil pack before was too hasty.)

#237 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680164&postcount=237) - Decides Gil is being too careless to be a wizard, and votes Ozban.

#273 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680234&postcount=273) - Wonders why Volo caught wizard attention.

#275 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680237&postcount=275) - Wonders if Volo was the blocked Day 1 target or if it was something from the previous Day that made him the wizards' choice.

#293 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680261&postcount=293) - Thinks that Seer-suspicion makes the most sense for Volo's death and that if they wanted to mess with our heads they must have had other options.

#313 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680286&postcount=313) - Thinks a wizard Rikae would not have made that confession, and that makes him wonder about Nerwen's quick vote. Then rolls eyes at seeing Morsul's vote.

#314 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680287&postcount=314) - considers Morsul's statement that the only way Rikae is innocent is if she's the purseholder with a target in mind. (Incidentally, if the wizards do think that at present, then maybe that's why she wasn't killed. Or - actually, no, it's more likely that they just thought the insomniac troll would be defending her and needed another target. Or that they were aiming for the insomniac troll.)

#318 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680298&postcount=318) - thinks Morsul's reason for voting Rikae is better than Nerwen's.

Kath

Votes
Day 1: n/a
Day 2: Morsul
Day 3: Morsul
Day 4: Sally

#5 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679859&postcount=5) - Banter. This was the wizard of Oz reference that caused her to be suspected by Morsul as a possible cobbler. It's very unlikely to be a sign left by a wizard for the cobbler to find.

#13 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679867&postcount=13) - Banter. Says wonders if Morsul is trying to distract us by talking more about trolls than wizards.

#223 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680148&postcount=223) - arrives.

- summarises previous Days. Might be worth people reading to see if they can get anything more from it than me.

In particular, she finds something Volo said odd, and comments on his playing style so far.

#232 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680159&postcount=232) - Decides she will look at the people who voted for me, but isn't sure how likely Boro or McCaber were to be wolves. Didn't like the "suspicion mongering" phrase from McCaber. Finds herself still worried about Volo.

#239 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680166&postcount=239) - votes Morsul, mostly for the "innocent McCab" comment, and notes that Lottie has spotted it too. (So I wonder, does this make a Kath-Lottie pack less likely?)

[Morsul the Dark]

I'm strongly considering voting for Morsul:

-for trying to lump himself in with Gil yesterday as an "easy lynch".
-for the countdown to a wizard victory. Yes, it's just the facts, but something about the way he posted looks like counting down to his own win. I can't put my finger on what that "something" is, but it feels wrong.

It's something that was being discussed Cab asked for clarification so I clarified it.

Cool though, you want to vote for me I understand, wouldn't want to mess up this losing streak we're on(sarcasm). I'm going to sleep now.

Also after a quick reread Nerwen overcame Nog as my third suspect.

Trying to decide if I should vote.

Actually yeah not really anything will change my mind on this...

++Sally

reasons I stated yesterday haven't changed didn't like How she voted Gil If I was her top suspect the whole time why not vote me? Looks like she just wanted to look like another befuddled ordo.

[Coppermirror]

I'm not intending to vote super early toDay. My choice is to either vote before I sleep, or get up unpleasantly early in the morning to read things through and vote before I go out for the day, and this time I think I'll do the latter, since things are getting pretty bad. But even with that I'll still be having to vote 5 or 6 hours before the deadline.

[McCaber]

Anyway, a look at Morsul the Dark.

Post 8: Initial thoughts of all the players with absolutely nothing to go on. If he has a thought on someone, it's suspicion. I guess as it should be on day 1.
Post 16: Wants to avoid knee-jerk reactions for the game. Let's see how well that went.
Post 17: comment on how many players there are.
Post 19: correction on the gender of Gil.
Post 22: Pom looks good based on her initial statements.
Post 24: Kath might be a cobbler based on singing about the Wonderful Wizard of Oz.
Post 59: Explains his suspicion of Kath.
Post 60: Votes Kath.

Post 152: Celebration about the ranger save and apologies for low participation.
Post 156: Thoughts on all the players. Says to watch CM. This is where he posts his contentious statement saying that if I'm hypothetically innocent, then Greenie might be a wolf. This immediately gets jumped on because of poor syntax, but I understood what he was trying to say.
Post 159: Continuation on thoughts. Says Kath was too quiet, I'm suspicious, and Nog is contradictory. Rolls his eyes at Nerwen.
Post 161: Closing thoughts. Rikae and Sally seem innocent. For all he just posted a big list, I feel like he didn't really say anything here.
Post 164: Suspects Lottie the most for voting for Pom when she did.
Post 165: If Lottie's a wolf, that may clear Nogrod because she's attacking him a bit. Again, strange. When a wolf slips up, often another wolf is one of the ones to catch it and criticize it.
Post 167: DL is at a bad time for him.
Post 172: Explains suspecting Lottie, as it's all in the timing. Explains his statement about me in 156.
Post 177: Says that his logic makes sense to him, and not to anyone else because helicopters. Now that's just weird, no matter what posting style you have.
Post 234: Again says his statement about me was a hypothetical.
Post 240: Votes Ozban for voting for him.
Post 246: Again explains his hypothetical.

Post 280: Feels good about a cobbler dying and bad about lynching an innocent. Says he's probably going to get lynched, and that he'll look into those who voted for him and Ozban.
Post 294: Explaining why he won't be there, while saying there'd be confusion if the wolves killed him. As bad as I think that sounds, it makes sense. He was under really heavy fire the previous day.
Post 312: Votes Rikae out of nowhere for being unhelpful. Now this one gives me a lot of pause.
Post 329: Explains why he voted Rikae. Hearing his reasons still doesn't make me like them any more.
Post 356: Again explains his vote. He just keeps digging...
Post 360: deeper...
Post 377: and deeper...

Post 434: Says the Boro wagon on the previous day sort of stinks.
Post 439: Draws parallels between Gil and himself, saying that they're both easy lynches but the wrong choice. I'm not going to lie, it looks a lot like he hopped right on what he thought would be an easy bandwagon earlier and now is trying to ninja himself out of it. And comparing him with a known innocent Gil would be a brilliant tactic for a wolf to take there.
Post 480: Shock that Sally didn't vote for him. If he is a wolf, I'm not sure he'd draw attention to a packmate like that.
Post 482: Votes Sally for not voting him, while still suspecting Lottie.
Post 487: Again attacks Sally for voting for Gil.
Post 489: Elaborates his position on Lottie. She leapt on his hypothetical way back in day 2 and he's holding a grudge for it. Also she voted for a wizard.

Post 498: Generic "I'm here".
Post 512: Has to work, probably won't vote. Suspects Lottie, Sally, Nerwen, and Nogrod.
Post 513: Clarification.
Post 516: Answering Inzil's questions.
Post 517: Again attacks Sally.
Post 521: Answers my question (commenting on this feels really meta, for some reason).
Post 524: Sarcastically snaps at Rikae, votes Sally for changing who her top suspect was, even though just a moment ago he had Lottie as his own most wanted and voted for someone else.

So yeah, he might be innocent and confused, but from here he honestly looks pretty bad. Maybe after his attempt at bandwagoning Rikae didn't pan out, he switched to Sally? I feel like some parallels are there.

[Nerwen]

Actually yeah not really anything will change my mind on this...

++Sally

reasons I stated yesterday haven't changed didn't like How she voted Gil If I was her top suspect the whole time why not vote me? Looks like she just wanted to look like another befuddled ordo.
Maybe... except it seems pretty clear she decided to vote him specifically because of his
posting yesterDay. It's not as if one is committed to picking a single suspect and sticking to him throughout the game.

[Nerwen]

Oh yes, Morsul looks quite bad. He's right about comparing himself to Gil, though. It's the same problem, basically.

[McCaber]

I swear, whoever came up with this "post about the people beneath you" idea just wants me to erode my fingers at this keyboard. Giving me the two most prolific ones in the thread, grumble grumble. Anyway, about Nerwen:

Post 27: IC post about Pom
Post 28: Yells at G55 about butting her head in.
Post 34: IC at Rikae and Morsul saying they're fulla hooey.
Post 37: IC at Sally.
Post 41: "
Post 46: "
Post 48: "
Post 54: Gets serious, wonders what Morsul saw when he accused Kath.
Post 57: Goes at CM for suspecting Boro based on nothing.
Post 63: IC about Bane.
Post 64: Says Morsul might have a point, but only barely.
Post 68: Defends her suspicion of CM.
Post 69: Defends herself against Brinn.
Post 74: Says Gil looks bad for hopping on a bandwagon.
Post 77: More against Gil.
Post 80: Defends herself, and attacks Gil again.
Post 85: More on Gil.
Post 88: Defends herself for attacking Gil.

Post 168: Lays out the options why Pom might have panicked. CM or I are innocent, CM or I are wolves, or CM's the cobbler. Yep, those are indeed the options there.
Post 174: Asks if Pom got bussed. Says Inzil or Lottie are likelier to be wolves than Sally in that case, but it's more likely that the wolves tried to save her.
Post 176: Wonders where Morsul's getting his logic from. Which is a very sensible question, as based on my previous post it's obvious I have no idea.
Post 180: More against Morsul.
Post 181: Says that CM might not be a wolf, because of Pom's pronouns. A weak point.
Post 183: Admits it's a weak point.
Post 184: Questions CM about other people finding her suspicious.
Post 188: Early analysis of Nogrod. Her conclusion: that some looks pretty standard for him, but some looks bad.
Post 189: Criticism of Brinn and Gil for calling her defensive.
Post 190: More pronouns.
Post 193: More wondering about Nog's intentions.
Post 196: Votes Nogrod and says Volo needs looking at. One confirmed fact, right there!

Post 287: More wondering about Nog.
Post 288: Says killing Volo was a weird thing for the wolves to do, and wants people to try and see why.
Post 297: Her own Volalyis. Rikae and Boro need some looking at according to it.
Post 300: Yells at Rikae for voting herself.
Post 302: Votes Rikae. Really weird vote there, but by itself it doesn't mean much.
Post 306: Explains why she voted Rikae.
Post 309: More explanation.
Post 311: Her thoughts on what Nog meant. It looks like a decent interpretation, as far as I can tell.
Post 315: Analyzing the Ozwagon. Basically, since Oz wasn't a wolf, it's likely that Morsul would be as he was the other one on the block.
Post 316: Explains why she voted Rikae again.
Post 325: Still really weirded out by what Rikae keeps saying.
Post 337: See above.
Post 338: See above.
Post 341: See above.
Post 342: See above.
Post 344: See above. This whole exchange is hella strange to me. Like, I just don't get it.
Post 346: Enought about Rikae. Finally. Says to look at Greenie/Boro.
Post 348: More about Rikae.
Post 349: "
Post 355: Threatens to ragequit herself.
Post 357: Comments about Morsul for voting Rikae. A really weird exchance, considering the amount of trouble she just went through to suspect her.

Post 438: Says Rikae is likely innocent and apologizes.
Post 442: Says that if Gil is innocent and if it was her defence of Rikae what tipped them off, then Lottie was a more logical target that night, so probably it was either random that Brinn died or a misdirection. I think that's what she's getting at, anyway.
Post 445: Says that Brinn might have hinted at dreaming about Nog.
Post 448: More spats with Rikae, this time apologetic.
Post 449: Maybe Brinn knew that either Nog was a wolf or Rikae was innocent.
Post 451: Says Gil only looks more suspicious after he said Brinn might have dreamed him.
Post 458: Exchanges with Gil. Says that he might be a framed innocent with a paranoid fixation on her.
Post 461: Brinn wanted Gil to be lynched. But she might have dreamed Nogrod as per post 445.
Post 463: More about how weird Gil is being.
Post 467: Gil looks more evil than paranoid.
Post 470: Says that she didn't start the fire, it was always burning since Gil started it.

Post 502: Says she's pressed for time today and might not be able to make an analysis.
Post 503: Lottie thought Gil and Nerwen are both wolves, she thinks.
Post 504: Yes, post 503 had the correct interpretation.
Post 514: Says that for all Gil was innocent, he looked really bad, so IDing wolves could be really tough.
Post 527: Explains Sally's vote yesterday and that no, Morsul, it doesn't look that suspicious.
Post 528: Morsul does indeed look bad.

I'm not gonna lie, I find it really hard to get a read off of Nerwen based on this. She feels innocent, but a few things like that whole Rikae exchange and a few of the things she said yesterday just read really weirdly to me. She has posted quite a bit, but not really said a lot.

[Inziladun]

Also after a quick reread Nerwen overcame Nog as my third suspect.

Reasons for this?

Actually yeah not really anything will change my mind on this...

++Sally

reasons I stated yesterday haven't changed didn't like How she voted Gil If I was her top suspect the whole time why not vote me? Looks like she just wanted to look like another befuddled ordo.

To be fair, do you not see how your own vote, coming right on the heels of Kath's with no previous suspicion of Sally, looks rather dodgy itself?

[Rikae]

I'm not liking this "analyze the two people below you" plan. It was Cop's idea, and it means I'm analyzing Cop; it also means that six people are being analyzed by wizards and that will take up most of the day, giving them a chance to look helpful while doing little. These kinds of analyses are only useful when there is a conclusion, and it's too easy, this way, to analyze without coming to any real conclusion at all (after all, it's just a rote thing, right? Just what you're supposed to do?)

Perhaps we should analyze people we find possibly suspicious? Radical idea, I know.

[Rikae]

That said, I'll go along and analyze Sally and Cop.

I hope people are going to compare the way the same person is analyzed by the two people who are supposed to cover him/her.

I really don't like this format, though. It isn't helpful to read a bland summary of every post a person made with no commentary. Couldn't people just mention things that they consider worth commenting on? That, after all, is the sort of thing that makes the analysis reflect on the analyzer as well; it is also much more readable than:
#9 - banter
#13 - more banter
#57 - lots of arguing
etc.

I mean, really.

[Loslote]

reasons I stated yesterday haven't changed didn't like How she voted Gil If I was her top suspect the whole time why not vote me? Looks like she just wanted to look like another befuddled ordo.

But she didn't say you were her 'top suspect all the time'. Just because she suspects you throughout the game doesn't mean she isn't allowed to look at anyone else, or think anyone else is posting suspiciously.

[Loslote]

Okay, there's only ten of us left, guys - we must be able to narrow this down to some extent.

Innocent, probably
Cop
Zil
Sally
Rikae
Lottie (in my list, anyway)

Under my radar
Kath
Cabbie

Suspect, to some degree
Morsul
Nerwen
Nog

...okay then. Well. I'll take a close look at Kath and Cabbie, but for the most part, those are the three who have seemed off all game. That also reminds me suddenly of how Morsul flipped between the other two in that list for which one to suspect, then (without explaining the logic) chose Nerwen. It seems to me that he was trying to include wolf-on-wolf, but didn't quite commit enough.

I would say, lynch one of those three toNight, and we'll probably be pretty likely to catch us a Wizard.

Like I said, I'll look at Kath and Cabbie when I get back from class, just to make sure I'm not overlooking anything, but I'm pretty sure this is the way things lie at the moment.

[Rikae]

Really? This little posting, and most of it arguing with Morsul? On a day like today?

Well, anyway, Sally.

She started off with a lot of strange posts - I thought so at the time - implying she doesn't know anything about trolls. Really. Yes, it was banter, but I think everyone here knows Tolkien's trolls have pockets! I have no idea what that is or why she'd do it, unless maybe as some sort of wizard hint to the cobbler or... er, maybe a hunter hint? Purse troll? I don't even know.

Hm, indeed:
We're trolls! We don't need pockets or purses.

Anyway, on day one there is really a lot more banter and no, I'm not going to give a list of the post numbers with "banter" after each one. :rolleyes: Yeah, that really helps us find wizards.

It is worth noting that she's the first to comment on Pom's "keep on eye on Cop voters" thing with:
Is that irony I smell, or is someone cooking bacon?

Of course she also votes for Pom. Weird, though:
++Pom

Because I just can't get over her obvious attempt to bandwagon.

Granted, Volo just admitted to doing the same thing, but that'll be an issue we can address toMorrow....


Obvious attempt to bandwagon is a weird thing to say when it was a cross vote.

Day two she suspects Volo, Gil and Morsul - now, if Morsul is innocent this would be a nice trio for a wizard to try to lynch Two "easy lynches" (I'm still very wary of Morsul's calling himself that, though) and one cobbler who is probably also an easy lynch.

Okay, I have to leave, but I'll have more later.

[Rikae]

I really feel like several people want us to lynch Morsul today. Like three. I have a feeling all our wolves are in secure positions right now.

[satansaloser2005]

I will be around toDay, but probably not for another hour or two. Stupid weather. I must leave now, but I'll be back when I can. *scurries*

[Coppermirror]

Rest of Inzil and Kath analysis, going from page 10.

Inzil

#370 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680365&postcount=370) - Agrees with Brin about how unlikely Rikae is to be a wizard. Doesn't see Morsul's Rikae as a wizard scenario as likely, and reminds him that he was saying he thought she might be the purseholder earlier. (There does seem to be a decent amount of interaction with Morsul in Inzil's posts...Overall I'd say that they're unlikely both to be wizards, so it's probably one or them or none of them.)

#390 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680387&postcount=390) - In response to my comment about how we shouldn't lynch Rikae, says he isn't going to vote for Rikae. "Leave her to the Seer". (So, a suggestion to the Seer to dream of Rikae. Although he didn't really seem to think before that Rikae could be a wizard, so wouldn't dreaming of her be a bit of a waste? A wizard might really want to encourage a dream of an innocent.)

- then talks about how Morsul seems to be backpedaling.
- and Kath's #383 post strikes him as odd, like something he would say as a baddie himself.

#395 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680392&postcount=395) - After Brin talks about why she's suspecting Boro, he points out that Gil is suspicious and had voted Boro. He can't decide whether Nerwen's a wizard or an ordo, and doesn't find Nog particularly suspicious and says that's cause for worry in itself.

#398 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680395&postcount=398) - Not impressed with Morsul's vote. Talks about Morsul, Gil, and Boro as voting options. Wasn't suspicious of Boro until his Greenie vote.

#412 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680410&postcount=412) - Votes Gil, agrees with me about being unwilling to vote Boro after Gil's vote for him.

#440 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680471&postcount=440) - Thought that Gil already looked dodgy, hence his vote the previous Day. Wonders why the wizards didn't kill him instead of Brin.

#453 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680499&postcount=453), arguing with Gil over an inconsistency in the latter's interpretation of the previous Day.

#483 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680554&postcount=483) - Thinks Gil is an easy pick but hasn't done anything to make himself look better that Day. Finds Kath's vote interesting and can sort of see her reasoning, but doesn't know what to make of it yet. At #485, votes Gil.

Kath

#383 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680379&postcount=383) - Is back, and doesn't think it's a surprise that Volo was killed, given how Seerish she thought he sounded the other Day.

#392 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680389&postcount=392) - Irritation over the wizard of Oz thing.

#399 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680396&postcount=399) - Wants to know if Rikae officially quit and if so when she'd be mod-killed. And then #400, wants Sally to do a tally of votes.

#421 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680419&postcount=421) - Votes Morsul for the "innocent Cab" thing and unsatisfactory explanations. But Boro is lynched because he got 4 votes first. Could be a deliberate wizard choice to save Morsul by delaying vote placement, but it's probably too hard to tell, given that I doubt Kath was lying about having only just shown up. She only had about 20 minutes or so to backread and vote.

#473 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680526&postcount=473) - posts about concerns about Sally. Then at #479, votes Sally.

I think the way she was around Gil - half defending him and then voting for him was odd. Also I'd rather the Day didn't end up just being the whole village bandwaggoning onto one vote.

And that's everything going up til toDay. Conclusions to follow.

[Inziladun]

I really feel like several people want us to lynch Morsul today. Like three.

Including you, as well? Just saying.

I'm strongly considering voting for Morsul:

-for trying to lump himself in with Gil yesterday as an "easy lynch".
-for the countdown to a wizard victory. Yes, it's just the facts, but something about the way he posted looks like counting down to his own win. I can't put my finger on what that "something" is, but it feels wrong.

I apologize for my quietness. The severe weather passed us by with no damage, thankfully, but it created some inconvenience. That plus a busy workday equals little time for WW. I'm going to at least vote, if nothing else. Yes, I'm looking at Morsul, primarily because he looks worse than any one else. The martyr-syndrome coupled with what appears to be hypocrisy about Sally's vote as compared to his own.

[Coppermirror]

There is nothing which stands out clearly in Inzil's behaviour as suspicious. If he's a wizard, he's playing an exceptionally careful and subtle game. I'm still inclined to think he's probably innocent. Things could only really change here depending on further information.

Of Kath, there is painfully, painfully little content to judge her by. (I'm sure she's busy IRL, regardless of guilt or innocence.) From the little shown, she seems pretty reasonable, but that doesn't really mean much.

Going by her posts, I don't think it's likely for there to be a Kath-Morsul wizard pack going on here. Unless the Wizard of Oz cobbler stuff was a clever plan, and I don't think it was, especially since it was still getting brought up in later Days.

I should have voted about 15 minutes ago, yelp. I'm thinking of voting Nog or Morsul. I wish there'd been more discussion toDay.

Suspicions list:

Not especially worried about:
Loslote
Rikae
Inzil

Worried about:
Kath
McCaber
Nerwen
Sally - in light of people's posts lately.

Really worried about:
Morsul
Nog

People are right that Morsul would be an easy lynch for wizards to push for, so we do need to be cautious not to have another Gil type lynch. But then, Morsul really is suspicious. I may well be voting for him in a minute. It's down to him and Nog because I need to vote ASAP.

[Coppermirror]

No more time, so:

++Morsul

because he's ten kinds of suspicious, much more suspicious than anyone else. I understand we might be in for Gil#2 here, but I can't not vote for someone who's this suspicious only because of that.

[Rikae]

Including you, as well? Just saying.

No. I don't want to lynch him anymore. It seems too much as if he's been chosen for the purpose.

Honestly, after Pom got lynched for the same sort of thing, do you really think I would say that meaning me? I now have a feeling this day is being choreographed, and you are one of the choreographers.

[Nerwen]

That also reminds me suddenly of how Morsul flipped between the other two in that list for which one to suspect, then (without explaining the logic) chose Nerwen. It seems to me that he was trying to include wolf-on-wolf, but didn't quite commit enough.
Sort of like Gil yesterday?

I'm tending to agree with Rikae now- this is all feeling wrong.

Btw, sorry about lack of participation toDay. Couldn't help it.

[Rikae]

As a matter of fact I'm not going to go along with this plan. If it's not a wizard's plan, it's certainly helpful to them.

I will not vote for Morsul for the reasons I just mentioned.

Thoughts on everybody:


Loslote - Her posting often seems iffy, but she did give Pom her second vote. I don't think a wizard would have considered it necessary to bus Pom at that point.
Rikae - Ordo, seer-dreamed as far as I can tell.
Inzil - Looking very bad to me now. He's been flying under the radar (even though he had 3rd most posts!) and generally seems to be poking at people without getting his hands dirty, hoping for something to stick. Voted for Gil the day before Brinn's death as well - a safe vote at the time.
Kath - Really under the radar. Caused a lot of confusion with her early banter, but overall her posting doesn't seem suspicious. It doesn't seem particularly innocent either. Very short, largely uncontroversial posts. Safe. A little too safe.
McCaber - His "bandwagon" on Cop with Pom shouldn't make him, or Cop for that matter, look any better. Pom's "keep an eye on Cop voters" makes him look slightly better, however, I am really not pleased with his analysis toDay (night?) - a lot of text, not a lot of content.
Nerwen
Sally - looking pretty innocent, actually, mostly due to her vote. Shasta likely wasn't killed because the wizards hoped he'd be modfired, come to think of it, and Sally may be alive now because of Brinn's comment bringing attention to her (I doubt very highly that Brinn actually dreamed of her).
Morsul - too often put forward as an easy lynch candidate by people who themselves don't look too innocent. He could still be evil. His posting, however, is erratic and controversial in a way that either an innocent or a wizard could possibly be, but that, in an innocent, would attract wizardly attention. I will not be voting for him today.
Nog - The events thus far have a Nog-mastermind feel to them. Particularly had the impression he was part of a plot to frame me after Volo's death - him more so than Nerwen. She is persistent enough to make herself look better, while Nog puts something out there and then sort of lets it gain momentum while backing off himself. He is also not nearly as active, as serious about wolf-hunting, as an innocent Nog usually is. Innocent Nog is persistent - this Nog is not. I don't like it.
Nerwen - I'm keeping an eye on her but as I've said, I actually think she'd be a bit more laid back if she were evil. If she is evil, she's doing a good job - staying involved in the controversy while making herself look better rather than worse.
Coppermirror - Just the same old bad feeling about the way she makes long posts with little content, and now has basically prompted the entire village to do the same. It may be a style thing, though.

Looking worst right now:
Inzil
Nogrod
Kath

Iffy:
Coppermirror
McCaber
Nerwen

Ok for now:
Lottie
Sally
Morsul
Nerwen
Rikae (duh)

[Loslote]

Nog - The events thus far have a Nog-mastermind feel to them. Particularly had the impression he was part of a plot to frame me after Volo's death - him more so than Nerwen. She is persistent enough to make herself look better, while Nog puts something out there and then sort of lets it gain momentum while backing off himself. He is also not nearly as active, as serious about wolf-hunting, as an innocent Nog usually is. Innocent Nog is persistent - this Nog is not. I don't like it.

This makes a lot of sense to me. What I keep remembering is how people keep bringing up suspicion against him, but it keeps being forgotten within a few hours. I don't really know what to make of that, but I think it's high time we pay some attention to him.

Nerwen - I'm keeping an eye on her but as I've said, I actually think she'd be a bit more laid back if she were evil. If she is evil, she's doing a good job - staying involved in the controversy while making herself look better rather than worse.

That...actually makes sense. I think she reads evil, but...probably a Nerwolf wouldn't. She makes my head hurt. :confused:

Coppermirror - Just the same old bad feeling about the way she makes long posts with little content, and now has basically prompted the entire village to do the same. It may be a style thing, though.

I don't know, I've seen this sort of suggestion a lot from a player who isn't quite *new* any more, has gotten a feel for the game, and wants to try a new strategy to catch wolves easier - and that generally comes when they're innocent, not evil. Cop's been feeling good to me, and I highly doubt she's a wizard.

[Nogrod]

I'm tending to agree with Rikae now- this is all feeling wrong.

Btw, sorry about lack of participation toDay. Couldn't help it.My words exactly, both sentences.

And top the latter case, I've had crazy days for the last ones so I haven't even read through yesterDay - and it's like 1½ hours to the DL and I'm actually feeling more dead-tired and empty-headed than enthusiastic... :(

But I have that nagging feeling too; maybe the baddies have been just totally at ease all the game (except Pom, of course) and killing Brinn was just extremely lucky (nad thus had nothing to do with whom they thought to be the seer)?

Okay. I'll try to do something.


EDIT: X'd with Rikae & Lottie

[Rikae]

Interesting thing from Nog the day I self-voted:

If Rikae is the purseholder this is what she wants...

Of course Nog would be aware that the purseholder is better night-killed - that lynching the purseholder could lead to a second innocent death.

Would he, as a wizard, be worried about his own safety in that case? Or would he have thought I'd be hunting Nerwen, or someone else?

[Kath]

I'm here and I'm reading and I can be here til deadline. Any chance someone could do a vote count while I'm perusing?

[Inziladun]

No. I don't want to lynch him anymore. It seems too much as if he's been chosen for the purpose.

Honestly, after Pom got lynched for the same sort of thing, do you really think I would say that meaning me? I now have a feeling this day is being choreographed, and you are one of the choreographers.

So you put me as an instigator against Morsul, but you're "iffy" on Coppermirror and Nerwen, who have also been for his lynching? And the former actually voted him already.

Trouble is, I really haven't had a chance to look closely at others. I have misgivings about Nerwen, and to a lesser extent Sally, though the latter has to a large extent been mitigated by the fact that I haven't trusted Morsul, and he's been after her. Morsul, as you say, has been all over the place as usual, but "that's just Morsul" shouldn't always be an out. Unfortunately, I need to vote now, or not vote at all.

++Morsul

Do as you like, and good luck.

x/d with Rikae and Kath

[Nerwen]

Of course Nog would be aware that the purseholder is better night-killed - that lynching the purseholder could lead to a second innocent death.

Would he, as a wizard, be worried about his own safety in that case? Or would he have thought I'd be hunting Nerwen, or someone else?
He might have thought it was still a better risk.

[Nogrod]

I got to check Brinn's posting and the few notes I had made on Volo.

With the information we have now it looks pretty improbable the Wizards killed either of them because they looked seerish to them. Which I think is pretty wild indeed, well, odd.

I've been a wolf often enough to know there is no other concern that would override the search for the seer with the lupines - and the gravest sacrifices (making themselves look bad the next Day) are needed when there is a suspicon about who the seer is (which comes from any unwarranted or firm suspicion for one of them).

Sure the pressure and the need depend on any given situation, but that is a kind of basic fact, like the law of gravity for WW-games.

And therefore the choices the Wizers have made puzzle me to no end now.

Also, going back there showed quite clearly Rikae is innocent.

[Rikae]

Looking over days 1 and 2, I see Nog defended Pom early after her Cop-wagon remark and on day 2, explained his last minute vote as an attempt to see if a "Prince Charming" would rescue her, which would be a "jackpot".

This makes no sense, though. If Pom had been saved, we wouldn't know her role. He doesn't claim he was very confident that she was evil, only that he was "okay" with lynching her. He also explains how it would have benefited him as a baddie to wolf-on-wolf vote at that point, which is true, but he also could have anticipated that his vote would look like too obvious a rescue attempt to be evil, excusing it.

So you put me as an instigator against Morsul, but you're "iffy" on Coppermirror and Nerwen, who have also been for his lynching? And the former actually voted him already.

Yep. I explained why I found them generally less suspicious, too. You seemed, throughout the game, unwilling to get your hands dirty.

And actually, I didn't put Nerwen in the iffy list at all.

[Nogrod]

Would he, as a wizard, be worried about his own safety in that case? Or would he have thought I'd be hunting Nerwen, or someone else?Maybe I'm just tired and thick-headed right at the moment, but why would I have said that aloud were I a wizard? What would have been the point? "Hey you trolls, this person is the hunter!" Wouldn't that have been something rather left unsaid as the wizards would like to have the hunter lynched rather than run on her/him at Night?

Yes, I admit it wasn't probably the smartest thing to speculate upon it even as a troll (if the Wizards hadn't come to think about that possibility) - but we trolls are dumb you know. And you can't actually blame me or anyone else to have been a little bit annoyed by your burst there and trying to make our minds about what on earth you were doing and why.

[Kath]

Originally Posted by Coppermirror
Nog's Day 1 voting was suspicious, but in terms of Brin's dreams I think Gil is the better bet. If that turns out to be wrong I'd probably want to vote Nog tomorrow.
Saw this as I went through yesterDay and it interested me to see if she'd hold to it. She is still focused on Nog with Morsul a close second so this is consistent. But, and it's an important but, she then votes Morsul having not actually mentioned specifically why he is suspicious. He is 'much more suspicious than anyone else' but no reasoning as to why.


By sally - Originally Posted by Brinniel
Gil and Nogrod would be my top choices. I'd rather not vote Morsul, but if it came between him and Rikae, I would choose Morsul.
So she's not dreamt Morsul. That much is pretty clear. If she had, she either wouldn't have expressed a preference or she would have expressed the opposite.

She could have dreamt Gil, given this bit and the exchange she had with Cop late yesterDay, but then there's this....
Nooo, I would say it is the 'if it came between him and Rikae' bit that's important. She is making a very clear statement that she won't vote Rikae. I'd say she was the dream there.

Plus there was then the statement that Gil was unlikely to be a wizard as Brinn would have voted Gil if she had dreamed him a wizard - followed by a vote for Gil with no further information on why.

From that read-through sally and Cop aren't looking great. I'm wary with Morsul. I still think he is suspicious for that comment the other Day. However, I haven't looked at him in particular recently and I wonder if I'm being swayed by that original knee-jerk reaction. I will have another look at him.

[Nogrod]

Rikae: I see you're building towards a campaign, but sorry, I'm not in a mood for a fight. Another day I might have. But what I can say is that you're wasting your energy.

I realised now that Brinn couldn't have been someone the Wizards thought was the seer, you know why? Because people she suspected more or less at all (and voted D2&3) are known innocents now (well, one of them aka me is only known to me for sure).

If I'd been a Wizard, do you really think I would have been advocating that interpretation as the only one whose role you don't know in Brinn's list is me? Why should I have sticked on the point that wolves kill those they think are Wizards if I was myself one who had killed people at Night just because of that? And yes, even after being the last one left... :rolleyes:

That's enough said of me toDay, I think.

[Nerwen]

Kath, as I understood it, Sally was doubtful about Gil having been dreamed, but went on to vote him because of his suspicious posting. As I said to Morsul, I don't really have a problem with that- though of course that may be because it mirrors my own reactions at the time.

x'd with Nog

[Rikae]

Actually, this whole "they did it too, why don't you suspect them?" thing Inzil just did looks somewhat innocentish.


Maybe I'm just tired and thick-headed right at the moment, but why would I have said that aloud were I a wizard? What would have been the point? "Hey you trolls, this person is the hunter!" Wouldn't that have been something rather left unsaid as the wizards would like to have the hunter lynched rather than run on her/him at Night?

Because you were saying so as a case that I should be lynched (and even, by your later post, why you might vote for me).

Kath made some good points about Copper just now. She has indeed not been giving much explanation for her votes. I wish I knew whether it was her style at all: I know as a wolf I'd be reluctant to vote like that: if anything, I'd be overly concerned with consistency (see Inzil talking about how he'd voted Gil before, even when Gil was looking like a seer dream).

Nerwen and Nogrod, what do you think of Inzil?

[Nerwen]

I am a bit uneasy with Cop, though- even though "walls of text" is her style, she's been doing a lot of it, even for her. And her theories early yesterDay on how the wolves might conduct them- "bussing" their "comrade" Gil without an attempt to save him- could be a sort of pre-explanation for why nobody did, in case people started to wonder later in the Day. Or not. There's little concrete against her.

x'd with Rikae.

[Rikae]

Rikae: I see you're building towards a campaign, but sorry, I'm not in a mood for a fight. Another day I might have. But what I can say is that you're wasting your energy.

I'm not building toward anything, I'm just trying to find a wizard. Aren't you? Sorry for going after you when you're tired, but if I sense evil I'm not going to look the other way.

I realised now that Brinn couldn't have been someone the Wizards thought was the seer, you know why? Because people she suspected more or less at all (and voted D2&3) are known innocents now (well, one of them aka me is only known to me for sure).

If I'd been a Wizard, do you really think I would have been advocating that interpretation as the only one whose role you don't know in Brinn's list is me? Why should I have sticked on the point that wolves kill those they think are Wizards if I was myself one who had killed people at Night just because of that? And yes, even after being the last one left... :rolleyes:

That's enough said of me toDay, I think.

Oh, because you would have that explanation all ready to go, perhaps? As for a reason, you do need to be consistent with what you were saying about the Volo kill, I suppose. :p

Of course wolves don't actually do that, and you know it. If wolves just killed someone who suspected one of them strongly every night in hopes of getting a seer, they'd be nicely showing the village the path to their door. Certainly every time I've been a wolf there has been much debate over whether someone is really a seer or bluffing or just doesn't give reasons in general etc. etc., because we wouldn't want to needlessly incriminate ourselves.

[Nogrod]

I'd say both McCaber and Copper look (or try to look) helpful while not being that too much. I feel some opportunism there and haven't actually lost my gut distrust for McCaber form the first Day.

Morsul is talking himself into blind alleys and at worst contradicting himself. I'm afraid it is also a playing-style issue (like with Gil). He sounds too much the wrong candidate while and especially because being the "easy vote". Here I agree with Rikae who said there might be too much readiness to go for him...

Inzil and Kath I think no one has suspected - which would fit well the scenario where the Wizards had no special candidate for the seer and went for Brinn with pure luck. But that is not exactly a case against them to be sure.

Lottie and Sally creep me and Nerwen I'm worried about (although quite a lot against lynching her right now).

Rikae most probably is an innocent.


So little to say so late in the game...

[Kath]

Morsul:

Day 1:
'will watch' Brinn, Pom is usually suspicious. Only concrete statements in a list post. Knew nothing of Brinn, was correct about Pom. Wolf-mates or lucky comment?

Pom's suggestion seems to be fairly genuine little information is better than no information.
Genuine or Captain Obvious statement. Either way little need for it to be further commented on unless to try and make Pom look good. With the statement from above, more likely to be wolf-mates.

Questions me being a Cobbler and further comments on it. Oddly, actually, he says that the reason was that I said wizards were wonderful - no suggestion that it was anything to do with Oz. That eventually made some sense to me, if he was picking on it just for the 'wonderful' part then that's weird.

Day 2:
Sorry for low participation on Night 1 had to work a double... ToNight will be better early plus I'll have a few hours before DL.

Looking over Night one will post comments.
Night activities on the brain? :p

A Little Green, "Green"- Showed up late but came out swinging voted Cab but levels some suspicion on Pom and Copp may wanted to look innocent suspecting Pom but voted an innocent Cab.
I'm sorry I still don't buy this 'hypothetical' thing. You AREN'T making a hypothetical point here in any way. No one, in any scenario, knows Cab is innocent - unless you're a wizard.

Right now Lottie is probably my top suspicion.

Like I said in my recap She was only the second vote for Pom.

She may have thought Cab was a sure lynch and therefore wasn't too worried about voting for a packmate.
If Morsul is a wolf this looks good for Lottie ... and possibly incriminate Nog as he is mentioned in the next post as being innocent if Lottie is a wolf.

Day 3:
Determined Rikae is a frustrated self-voting wolf. I suppose if he hasn't come across Rikae's overreactions before it makes sense. Does seem fairly honestly bewildered by the whole Rikae thing, but if he is a wolf that's easy to put on to push the votes for her.

Day 4:
Puts himself in the same boat as Gil. If he's a wolf, and therefore knows Gil is innocent, this is a clever move. Still throwing Lottie's name out but takes umbrage at sally being very determined to defend Nerwen.

Day 5:
Has a suspicion list of Lottie and sally (consistent with yesterDay) and then Nerwen/Nog - no explanation for last two. Then 'Nerwen overtook Nog' - WHY?!

Votes:
Day 1 - Kath (to me terrible reasoning!)
Day 2 - Ozban (so what happened to Lottie being his top suspicion?)
Day 3 - Rikae (knee-jerk reaction after Rikae's self-vote. Bit opportunistic.)
Day 4 - sally (oddly I agree with the vote, I just think it's suddenly out of nowhere.)
Day 5 - sally (consistent with yesterDay)

[Nerwen]

Zil? No idea. I read his posts one time and they look sinister, a second time and I think I'm imagining it.

No, that wasn't very helpful, I know. I know my posts sound disjointed, but I'm having to snatch the time to do them at all.

EDIT: x'd since self.

[Kath]

A re-read has done nothing to quell my suspicions and hopefully they're clearer now too. That said, I think the things he says about sally are entirely right. No reason that's not wolf on wolf this late in the game with sally not hugely suspected. To cast a first vote early and hope for no comeback on it is bold though.

[satansaloser2005]

I am so not caught up, and I won't actually be back except for right now. I'm terribly sorry.

++Morsul

I guess I shouldn't have been distracted by Gil's craziness yesterDay. Bah. Anyway, must go. Again, I'm sorry.

[Kath]

sally, Morsul and Cop are my suspicions - in that order.

[Nogrod]

Nerwen and Nogrod, what do you think of Inzil?He has been always the hard one to read for me. He rarely comes forth with strong suspicions, he is jovial and gentelemannish, he is helpful when he has time and most always takes good care his votes are reasoned.

None of those qualities in posting sure are causes to trust him or distrust him as such.

And as I said, I have been actually in this game what, four days ago... (I played a little in the end of yesterDay b ut still haven't have time to read yesterDay) so I have shamefully little to go on. Well on anyone, like my earlier post shows.

[Loslote]

I would prefer to lynch Nog toDay, but I really don't know how likely that is. I feel like he's been flying too much under the radar, getting in the thick of things and being controversial rarely enough, and generally being quiet enough to let suspicions of him slip away in favor of bolder, more loudly suspicious players. His Day 1 vote still bugs me, and the way he's been playing toDay has been...too agreeable, in a way. It seems like a lot of what he's saying had just been said, and often is the general consensus of the moment. It doesn't feel like the Nog I'm used to playing with, and that makes me very wary.

However, if Nog is not an option (which he might well not be, with twenty minutes left to DL), I'd prefer to see Morsul lynched than Cop or Zil or anyone else you lot are talking about right now.

EDIT: xed since Nerwen

[Rikae]

In fact, Nog would be especially worried about how his talk of wolves going after seers would make him look, now. The thing is, Brinn by no means looked like a seer who had dreamed of Nog. Why would she lump him together with innocent Gil in that case, and put more emphasis on Gil? So why is Nog so focused on that idea now?

Oh man, only a little time left and I'm still not sure. I would rather vote Inzil, but I don't want to scatter the votes and give the wizards too much power. :(

[McCaber]

I have no time to explain myself fully now, but my reasoning is all in my Morsul post earlier.

++ Morsul

[Loslote]

A re-read has done nothing to quell my suspicions and hopefully they're clearer now too. That said, I think the things he says about sally are entirely right. No reason that's not wolf on wolf this late in the game with sally not hugely suspected. To cast a first vote early and hope for no comeback on it is bold though.

This looks ridiculously innocent to me - her reasoning screams it. I don't want to elaborate, due to the time running down and talking about someone's innocent-ness really isn't my priority, but I wanted to mention that Kath just jumped from 'unknown' to 'feel good about'.

EDIT: xed since Rikae

[Nogrod]

Late in the Day with only a few people to vote even two votes for same person are quite important as they kind of set the pieces as who are "votable".

I do dislike Sally's vote there. It's placed perfectly if Morsul is innocent and Sally is a wolf.


EDIT: Not to talk of McCaber's vote!

[Nerwen]

This looks ridiculously innocent to me - her reasoning screams it. I don't want to elaborate, due to the time running down and talking about someone's innocent-ness really isn't my priority, but I wanted to mention that Kath just jumped from 'unknown' to 'feel good about'.

EDIT: xed since Rikae
No, I'm not getting any wolf vibes off Kath at the moment.

[Loslote]

This looks ridiculously innocent to me - her reasoning screams it. I don't want to elaborate, due to the time running down and talking about someone's innocent-ness really isn't my priority, but I wanted to mention that Kath just jumped from 'unknown' to 'feel good about'.

EDIT: xed since Rikae

Actually, it's not as rushed as I thought, I have a bit of time. It seems like the kind of semi-tunnel vision an innocent gets when they really, truly think someone is a wolf - taking even things that might seem contradictory and turning them to fit your suspicions. Not that she's misinterpreting anything, but that she's making her suspicions fit by sheer force of honestly thinking Sally and Morsul are wolves.

EDIT: xed since my last

[Kath]

++sally

For reasons previously mentioned.

[Loslote]

Morsul -> Sally
Cop -> Morsul
Zil -> Morsul
Sally -> Morsul
Cabbie -> Morsul

That's right, yeah? Well then. It looks like we have to be extremely careful with our votes if we want to lynch anyone other than Morsul.

EDIT: xed with Kath

[Nogrod]

Has anyone a tally?

Three votes for Morsul I suppose? Others given toDay?

I could go for Sally or McCaber.


EDIT: X'd with a tally, thanks Lottie

[Rikae]

Cab -> Sally
Cop -> Morsul
Zil -> Morsul (2)
Sally -> Morsul(3)
Cab -> Morsul(4)
Kath > Sally(2)

Left to vote:

Loslote, "Lot"
Morsul the Dark, "Mors"
Nerwen, "Nerve"
Nogrod, "Nog"
Rikae, "Rick"

EDIT: X'd with last three, added Kath's vote.

[Loslote]

That's it, then. Morsul is lynched, unless we want to lynch Sally. We only have four more voters, and the first person to reach the tied total gets the lynch.

EDIT: xed with Nog and Rikae

[Nerwen]

Wait... has it now become a matter of either Morsul or Sally?

x'd since Lottie.

[Loslote]

Alright, then. Of the two, I find Morsul more suspicious. I did a quick read of Sally's posts, and she seems like her usual innocent self.

++Morsul

[Rikae]

Bah, I messed something up - two cabs? Why?

[Nogrod]

Morsul is an odd player (so is Gil) - sorry you both, you're probably nice guys both but your playing-style is somewhat hard to follow. With Morsul I'm afraid we're getting another innocent lynched because of odd talk.

Also the bandwagon looks too easy for the Wizards to fill in. And Sally's vote (and McCaber's) a bit too well placed to really try and force us to this choice.

I also see now why Inzil looks suspicious to Riokae as I notice the first vote on Mors already by Cop.

[Rikae]

On principle:

++Inzil

[Nogrod]

I'd hate another Gil-lynch and will go then for...

++ Sally

I'd rather have picked McCaber, or maybe Lottie - she needs to be checked at more closely toMorrow, well a little depending on the ourtcome. I mean she really did her best to stop any Sally-lynch...

[Nogrod]

Oh Rikae!

If Morsul is innocent I'm afraid your principles cost us a Wizard... well, at least a chance for it.

Or then Brinn was unclear with you as well and you're a Wizard yourself?

[Rikae]

Nog, Sally couldn't be lynched anymore and I don't suspect her anyway.

[Nogrod]

If Morsul is innocent, this should be read very closely toMorrow.

[Nerwen]

Well, that just crept up on us...:rolleyes:

I'll vote

++Morsul

and hope for the best. I am not very hopeful though- suss as he is, I expect if he were really a wolf his mates could have saved him pretty easily toDay. :(

EDIT: x'd with Nog and Rikae

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

DEADLINE.

Morsul has been lynched. Stop posting. Narration coming up.

[Rikae]

Lottie made the choice, and my other options were to vote Nog or abstain from voting - I'm not voting for someone I think is innocent.

X'd with deadline.

EDIT: lol at deadline... :P

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

X'd with deadline.

Hey, who are you calling "deadline"? ;)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

"Dead troll yesterday, dead troll the day before yesterday, and blimey, if it don't look like dead troll again today," said Cop when the dwindled amount of trolls met again as the dark fell.
"Never a blinking bit of wizzer-flesh have we had for long enough," said Kat. "Why the 'ell did we bring all this wood here, beats me," she added, gesturing towards the large pile of firewood that had been resting in the corner of the cave for two days.
"P'raps we might make somethin' tonight," Lad suggested. "If we start now, we can roast some-un tonight."
"You 'ave a lotta nerve doin' that after we already lost so many o' us," said Cab.
"Yer called me?" asked Lot and Nerve at the same time.
"No, I didn't," said Cab.
"Yer did!" Lot and Nerve yelled, but then Rick intervened:
"Shut up, all three o' you! If we want a wizzer for supper, we should start."
"Bu' who shall we eat?" asked Nog.
"Not me!" shouted Mors. That of course made him immediately the target.
"Hold 'im tight," advised Sal as several of them grappled Mors. "We don't want 'im to start a-fightin' again."

And so it was done. The trolls started a fire, then kept adding wood until they had a large fire crackling, and then they tied poor Mors to a trunk of still green uprooted tree and began roasting him above the fire. But as you may know, trolls have really hard skin which is like stone, and poor Mors actually burned rather than roasted, his skin became all black and his blood boiled. The smoke sent the trolls coughing and terrible smell filled the cavern.

"Um, I'm not eatin' that," said Lad amidst the fits of cough.
"I don't 'ave the taste for it, either," said Cab.
"So no food again?" asked Kat, disappointed.
"You can eat it, if you have the nerve," said Nerve.
"Nah, let's just throw it away," Sal suggested.
"Let's just go back to sleep," said Nog.
"With empty stomach," Cop sighed.
"We been doin' that a lot," said Rick.
"Shut up," said Lot.

And so they went. Needless to say, some of them were far happier about the result of roasting Mors than they seemed.


~*~


Dumb and Dead
Thinlómien, "Lom", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1
Legate of Amon Lanc, "Leg", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1
Pomegranate, "Pom", a Wizard, boiled and eaten on Day 1
Ozban, "Oz", an Ordinary Troll, crushed to death by a troll pyramid on Day 2
Volo, "Vol", Traitor Troll, magically opened up like a door on Night 3
Bane Mantra, "Bane", an Ordinary Troll, turned into stone while hunting (modfired) on Day 3
Boromir88, "Bore", Ordinary Troll, forgotten outside the cave and turned into stone on Day 3
Brinniel, "Brin", the Clever Troll, strangled to death with the assistance of magical studs on Night4
Gil-Galad, "Gil", an Ordinary Troll, beaten to death by his fellows on Day 4
Shastanis Althreduin, "Shaz", an Ordinary Troll, lost in search for Bane (modfired) on Day 4
A Little Green, "Green", an Ordinary Troll, blown up with fireworks on Night 5
Morsul the Dark, "Mors", an Ordinary Troll, roasted, but not eaten on Day 5

Dumb and Walking
Coppermirror, "Cop"
Inziladun, "Lad"
Kath, "Kat"
Loslote, "Lot"
McCaber, "Cab"
Nerwen, "Nerve"
Nogrod, "Nog"
Rikae, "Rick"
satansaloser2005, "Sal"


~*~


Night 6 has started. Wizzers, plan. Insomniac and Purse-troll, plan as well. Rest, rest.

[Thinlómien]

The next day was a rainy one. Unhappy, the three wizars spent it under a huge spruce, trying to come up with the best course of action. It was very damp there too, and they did not dare make a proper fire. They were blowing smoke rings to amuse themselves, but after they had made smoke rings in the shapes of several dozen different animals, it wasn't so fun anymore. They were running out of ideas, too.

"I doubt there's even enough sunlight through those darned clouds that it could turn a troll into stone," complained one of the wizards.
One of his fellows peered out from under the tree's boughs. "There might be," he said. "It's more about how we can get a troll out of the cave. They saw what happened to their bosses, and even trolls are not so stupid that they would forget such a thing quickly."
"You have forgotten all about uncloaking," said the third wizard, suddenly merry. "We wake the troll up - quietly - and tell her it's night already and suggest we go to find some food. One of us stands at the cave entrance, uncloaking, so that it's all darker than it should be, and once the troll is out, he stops uncloaking and sunlight gets her. Smart, isn't it?"

The other two wizards didn't have any objections, so the wizards assumed the likenesses of trolls and stalked into the cave. They grouped around Lot's bed and one of them kicked her shin.

"C'mon lazy! It's already nightfall. Let's go and get some food before the others wake up and we might actually catch somethin," one wizard said in a troll voice.
"Blimey, I could swear that was not a full day's sleep," Lot grumbled.
"Let's not wake the other 'uns. Let's go," said another wizard.
"Then why are ye a-taking me with you?" asked Lot, slow but suspicious.
"You can hunt. We need you. Now shut yer mouth and follow or we change our minds," said the wizard who had spoken first.

They made their way towards the entrance of the troll cave. The third wizard had removed the stone that was protecting it, and had he not stood there, tall and dark and uncloaked, the grey daylight would have made its way in.

"Hang on," said Lot. "That fella standing there looks and awful lot like a wizzer."
"It's just a shadow on the wall," one of the wizards said quickly.
"I'm not going," Lot announced.
"You have to!" the wizards said hastily.
"No," said Lot.
"Yes," they said, and pushed Lot towards the entrance with all their might.

The wizard uncloaking stepped away quickly. Daylight spread a ten or so feet into the troll-cave. Shielding her face with her hand and growling angrily, Lot tried to grope for the wizard she had just seen in the entrance. Something fell from her pocket. "'Ere, 'oo are you?" it squaked. The wizard stood, too surprised to act. "You look like a wizzer to me," squaked the purse. Lot gripped the wizard by his neck and lifted him to air. "'Oo are you?" the purse repeated angrily. "I'm McCandalf, let me go," wailed the wizard, but it was already too late.

Cloudy as it was, Lot was slowly turning into stone, her huge hands safely wrapped around McCandalf's throat. The two other wizards could do nothing but watch their friend suffocate in the stony grasp. Crying in dismay, they retreated back to the woods and long they wept for their fallen comrade. They took the troll-purse with them, however, and burned it in a bright fire, never minding who might see it.

They returned to the cave by nightfall and pretended to sleep like the trolls. When they all woke up, they found the stony figure of Lot standing in the doorway with her fist curled around nothing that they could see. On the ground, however, they found a staff and a wizard's robes, and after much debate, they also concluded that Cab was missing.


~*~


Dumb and Dead
Thinlómien, "Lom", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1
Legate of Amon Lanc, "Leg", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1
Pomegranate, "Pom", a Wizard, boiled and eaten on Day 1
Ozban, "Oz", an Ordinary Troll, crushed to death by a troll pyramid on Day 2
Volo, "Vol", Traitor Troll, magically opened up like a door on Night 3
Bane Mantra, "Bane", an Ordinary Troll, turned into stone while hunting (modfired) on Day 3
Boromir88, "Bore", Ordinary Troll, forgotten outside the cave and turned into stone on Day 3
Brinniel, "Brin", the Clever Troll, strangled to death with the assistance of magical studs on Night4
Gil-Galad, "Gil", an Ordinary Troll, beaten to death by his fellows on Day 4
Shastanis Althreduin, "Shaz", an Ordinary Troll, lost in search for Bane (modfired) on Day 4
A Little Green, "Green", an Ordinary Troll, blown up with fireworks on Night 5
Morsul the Dark, "Mors", an Ordinary Troll, roasted, but not eaten on Day 5
Loslote, "Lot", the Purse-holder Troll, lured into daylight on Night 6
McCaber, "Cab", a Wizard, identified by the troll-purse and suffocated to death on Night 6

Dumb and Walking
Coppermirror, "Cop"
Inziladun, "Lad"
Kath, "Kat"
Nerwen, "Nerve"
Nogrod, "Nog"
Rikae, "Rick"
satansaloser2005, "Sal"


~*~


Day 6 has started. Have fun chatting, but only on this thread please.

[Coppermirror]

Sweet. Good on you, Lottie! Taking one of them down with you.

So...Pom did panic because McCaber was a wizard, after all. And Morsul was innocent, so there's a lot of info to analyse toDay.

[Nogrod]

Well done Lottie!

So yesterDay's wagon didn't just get going by itself as I thought. The question remains whether one or two remaining Wizards were involved too. And my hunch would be yes.

But it's off to bed for me now. I should have an easier day toDay so hopefully some decent time to actually play this for a change.

5:2 is not too bad at this point. Two Days to go at minimum.

[Coppermirror]

Anyway, aside from looking at McCaber's posts, I'm going to be taking another look at Inzil. I thought it was reasonably likely that one out of him or Morsul was a wizard but that it couldn't be both. Since Morsul was innocent after all, this new information means my suspicion of Inzil has gone way up, so I need to see if it checks out.

[Rikae]

Oh, nice work Lottie!

This makes Copper look better. Going to have to go over Cab's posts and see how it reflects on everyone else.

Oh yeah, and on Morsul:

I told you so
I told you so
I told you so
:mad:

Yeah.

[Inziladun]

Nice! Neat work from Lottie!

Anyway, aside from looking at McCaber's posts, I'm going to be taking another look at Inzil. I thought it was reasonably likely that one out of him or Morsul was a wizard but that it couldn't be both. Since Morsul was innocent after all, this new information means my suspicion of Inzil has gone way up, so I need to see if it checks out.

Well, getting Cab gives us another Night of grace, but you could do better then me.

Oh yeah, and on Morsul:

I told you so
I told you so
I told you so
:mad:

Yeah.

Yeah, yourself. :rolleyes:
I simply wasn't willing to switch my suspect with little evidence.

[Coppermirror]

Well, getting Cab gives us another Night of grace, but you could do better then me.

Any suggestions as to who, in that case?

[Inziladun]

Any suggestions as to who, in that case?

I intend to look at Nerwen and Sally.

[Inziladun]

To elaborate, I'm specifically interested to see if there appear to be any connections between those two and Pom and/or Cab.

[Inziladun]

Ok, interactions with and comments of Nerwen regarding the known Wizards.

Here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679888&postcount=27) is banter with Pom in troll-fashion.

Here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679897&postcount=34) she responds to Rikae with "An' when did Pom, Lad 'n' Cab say anything' about wizards not actin' like wizards?" Two Wizards there. Coincidence? Maybe. Seems rather careless for a Nerwizard.

This (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680079&postcount=168) is her analysis of the Pom-lynch. nothing really notable there.

Questions (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680085&postcount=174) whether Pom was bussed, concludes there was likely an attempt to save her.

Here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680093&postcount=181)she says Pom's seeming not knowing Cop's gender could be a point in Cop's favor.

Agrees (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680256&postcount=288) with Cab that Volo was a "weird choice" of a wolf kill. You think? :rolleyes:

And...that's all I saw. No obviously sinister links, at least not from her posts.

[Rikae]

I don't want to get tunnel vision but Inzil is looking worse and worse. I'll explain more soon (I hope. My internet is being bratty).

I kind of hope Zil is a wolf now, though, because going through Day one I see this from me:
I see, so Pom, Inzil and McCaber are trying to convince us that wizards don't act like wizards. Suspicious. Why would they be called "wizards" if they didn't change anyone's role, hmmm? Who would want us to think the wizards had fewer powers than they do, other than... wizards? :eek:

"Finding" three wolves in a banter post would just be awesome.

[Inziladun]

I don't want to get tunnel vision but Inzil is looking worse and worse. I'll explain more soon (I hope. My internet is being bratty).

I kind of hope Zil is a wolf now, though, because going through Day one I see this from me:


"Finding" three wolves in a banter post would just be awesome.

In other words, the same sort of "tunnel vision" you accused others of having toward Morsul? And by all means, explain your suspicion.

[Inziladun]

I encourage everyone to at least rely on your own instincts and conclusions this Night. Yes, there is another Night's leeway, thanks to Lottie, but don't let that move you into hastiness. Look back over things and make up your own mind.

[Rikae]

DL falls in the midst of the workday, which I should have known would be a pitfall.

I don't like Gil's reasoning, but I've never played with him before, so I'm willing to let him pass for to(Day?Night?).

I'm not particularly keen on going for Nerwen at the moment, so I''ll make it

++Pom

for the vote on Cop, and the odd remark about watching everyone else.

x/d with last three

I have to note that this was shortly (but more than three posts) after I voted for McCaber.

Day 2, Cab says:
Well, we know Pom was right about there being at least one who voted for CM.

Har-de-har-har... :rolleyes:

And Inzil replies
Yes indeed.

No, that's not really evidence against him, it just amuses me.

An evil McCaber does make Nog, look better, though. They both went after each other in ways that could have easily resulted in a lynch - although nothing that couldn't be wolf-on-wolf after all. Nog's vote for McCaber is interesting in this light. For a wolf, obviously, it would be pointless; well, for an innocent it's pointless too. His explanation was especially weird. No, no pass for Nog.

Kath is really under the radar and no one seems to be looking at her.

McCaber says of the Volo kill:

If the wizards thought he was a seer, it was probably because of his first fluffy post and something they saw in his lists. Maybe Morsul is in fact innocent and the wizards thought that only a seer would think that. Other than that, he looked really suspicious and probably would have gotten himself lynched a few days down the road. A really weird choice of wolf kill.

Could be that's the plain truth. Good way to make sense and be consistent. ;)

I would think it's likely Nog is on the right track, and Volo should have said something to make them think he might be on to one of them. It really doesn't make a lot a sense otherwise. As many have noted, he wasn't exactly considered innocent, and probably would have been one of the prime lynch candidates for toNight.

And then in response to McCaber
So to the Wizards anyone who thinks Morsul is innocent must be a Seer? I was thinking someone else had said they thought Morsul was all right, but I don't recall now.

Yeah: Inzil. Although Copper and I were also ambivalent about Morsul, Inzil actually called the Morsul wagon "fabricated".

So is this "I don't recall" sarcasm? Does Inzil expect that everyone else remembers his one line from two (RL) days before? He certainly remembers who he suspected or not! At this poitn he just seems to be interested in furthering the "Volo looked seerish" theory without drawing attention to himself.

Inzil claims I look innocent after self-voting, along the lines that a wolf wouldn't at that point. Nah, this doesn't tell me anything. He could actually have changed his opinion of me or he could just be confident that I'll be lynched and stepping away from the bandwagon to avoid drawing attention the next day. After this Cab goes for Morsul. Inzil makes a vote for Gil that is essentially a throwaway, asking someone to join so it's not for nothing.

The day Gil was lynched Copper makes some statements about how the wolves won't defend him and he might not show up, and Inzil questions her about it. Something about one of them - something about the exchange, actually.

Huh, I just realized I put Nerwen in two different categories yesterday. I don't know what's going on with me. :rolleyes:'

Anyway, today:


n other words, the same sort of "tunnel vision" you accused others of having toward Morsul? And by all means, explain your suspicion.

What? I didn't say any such thing. I said it was choreographed. By wizards. And we know now that it was, although we don't know to what extent.

And I said I didn't want to have "tunnel vision" anyway. Meaning, I didn't want to see evil because I expected to see it. But at this point, nonetheless, I'm pretty sure you're evil. I gave reasons both yesterday and today - not sure how you could have missed that! However, I'm confident the other trolls around here will be able to see where I'm coming from.


I encourage everyone to at least rely on your own instincts and conclusions this Night. Yes, there is another Night's leeway, thanks to Lottie, but don't let that move you into hastiness. Look back over things and make up your own mind.

I agree completely.

++Inzil

[Inziladun]

Since Rikae is exhibiting all the single-mindedness for which she castigated Morsul voters, I'll just take a page from her book.

++Inzil

[Rikae]

Since Rikae is exhibiting all the single-mindedness for which she castigated Morsul voters, I'll just take a page from her book.

++Inzil

You better be a wizard, because otherwise I'm going to be pretty angry with you for repeating this misrepresentation of what I said.

Lots of luck with the self-voting, really.

[satansaloser2005]

Re: Morsul. Ugh. Again? Seriously, man, stop acting guilty when you're not.

Re: Lottie. No surprise there. I had the sneaking suspicion she was our hunter (she's acted similarly once before), and had hoped she could do....well, what she did. I'm sad to see her go though. Good job, dear.

I'll be that guy and note that the wizards took out the main person who was against my lynch yesterDay (at least from what remember of what I've read). There may be something there, or it may be coincidental.

Re: McCaber. So the McCobbler was in fact a McWizard, was he? Well, that changes some things. As is normally the case with McCaber, I don't pick up much from him, but I'll go back and look through his posts to see if I catch anything interesting.

Oh, and can we not almost lynch me next time I'm unexpectedly gone for the Day? That'd be great, thanks. >.<

I have a few thoughts in another tab that I'll be sharing soon, but I honestly believe it'll be an early night for me. I really haven't been sleeping well lately, and I actually need to be decently conscious to do my job tomorrow. Back soon.

[Rikae]

I'd just like to point out:

Inzil apparently doesn't suspect me.
There are seven people here. Two are wolves.

If Inzil was innocent, and thought I was innocent (as he appears to) he would basically have just thrown away the lynch.

Nope, it makes much more sense if he's a wolf trying what "worked" for me.

And before he calls me a hypocrite (because that seems to be his thing now), I self-voted in a much larger village, when my vote, and my life, mattered much less.

This just makes me more confident I'm on the right track.

[satansaloser2005]

A few thoughts on our resident crazy lady (said with reason and affection, I promise).

Oh yeah, and on Morsul:

I told you so
I told you so
I told you so
:mad:

Yeah.

Yes, yes you did. You also told us a few other things....

I'm strongly considering voting for Morsul:

-for trying to lump himself in with Gil yesterday as an "easy lynch".
-for the countdown to a wizard victory. Yes, it's just the facts, but something about the way he posted looks like counting down to his own win. I can't put my finger on what that "something" is, but it feels wrong.

And then, once he had votes....

No. I don't want to lynch him anymore. It seems too much as if he's been chosen for the purpose.

Wolves don't always bandwagon. Sometimes they just talk other people into doing it for them, then sit back and watch the carnage, afterward being able to claim they had nothing to do with the slaying of an innocent. Rikae did exactly, exactly that.

And then there's this that you said about me, which presses one of my suspicion buttons....

She started off with a lot of strange posts - I thought so at the time - implying she doesn't know anything about trolls. Really. Yes, it was banter, but I think everyone here knows Tolkien's trolls have pockets! I have no idea what that is or why she'd do it, unless maybe as some sort of wizard hint to the cobbler or... er, maybe a hunter hint? Purse troll? I don't even know.

I'm sorry, why did you feel the need to point out a gifted hint again? What made you think that could possibly be a good idea?

Back to the main issue, however, Rikae's flip flop (though not in the style of either of our wonderful mods) about Morsul yesterDay and toDay looks quite bad to me. I had left her to her own devices due to the rather heated nature of some conversations on the thread, but I simply can't ignore this. She put a Morsul lynch, which was already in most of our minds at the time, on the table with a shiny apple in its mouth, and then when people decided to bite, she backed away and is now calling us animals.

I don't like it. I don't like it at all.

Of course now I'm not sure what to think of her exchange(s) with Dun. Her throwaway (and it was!) vote for him yesterDay was wasteful, even if she were innocent and thought him a wolf. I mean, really, thanks for not deciding to kill me, but what the heck?

If she's a wizard, she's clearly not afraid to vote for her mates, as she cast the first vote against McCaber on Day 1 (though Day 1 is always a bit with the random and it's entirely possible she didn't think he'd garner more votes). Would she be bussing Dun in such a showy fashion though? And would he go along with it like this? Both of them are tricksy, clever little Werewolfers, so I wouldn't put it past them, but doing it like this is just....crazy.


I have a lot to think about....

x'd with a very self-confident Rikae, which just worries me more

[satansaloser2005]

A relevant song, I believe. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnupL42gmF4)

(It's also stuck in my head, and thus you all must suffer with me.)

[Rikae]

I "flip flopped" about Morsul because I saw the way things were going. Very much like - well, exactly like - I "flip flopped" on Cop on day One.

Sometimes - no, often - people's reactions to one's suspicions are more suspicions than whatever the original suspicion was based on.

Of course I could have done that as a wizard. It could also be that Brinn didn't dream of me at all, but just thought I looked innocent. I suppose I could also have had two fellow wizards who, unfortunately, both followed my suspicion and simultaneously voted accordingly! That would be strange and wonderful.

You're reaching.

I'm sorry, why did you feel the need to point out a gifted hint again? What made you think that could possibly be a good idea?

A hunter hint. See the difference?

You're really, really reaching. Why?

Of course now I'm not sure what to think of her exchange(s) with Dun. Her throwaway (and it was!) vote for him yesterDay was wasteful, even if she were innocent and thought him a wolf. I mean, really, thanks for not deciding to kill me, but what the heck?

Yeah, if you were paying attention, any vote at that point was a throwaway.
It's kind of like our elections: I know only a Democrat or a Republican will win (in my state, only a Democrat); I consider both choices worthless so I make a statement with my vote, though I know that person won't win. I know some people don't get that, but that's how I roll.

If she's a wizard, she's clearly not afraid to vote for her mates, as she cast the first vote against McCaber on Day 1 (though Day 1 is always a bit with the random and it's entirely possible she didn't think he'd garner more votes).

When I'm a wolf I'm not. And if I had two of them blatantly following my lead like that, I might even do so out of annoyance. Do you really think that's what happened, though, Sally?

[satansaloser2005]

I don't care how you want to spin it, Rikae. Pressing for a lynch, then backing off and saying, "Hey, guys, why'd you do that?" is....oh, wait, isn't that kind of what Pom did on Day 1? :rolleyes:

Whether or not Brinn dreamt of you is irrelevant, and I honestly don't know why you're bringing it up.

As for McCaber, I didn't say you nearly lynched him on purpose, or even that your guild mates followed, although I find it interesting that you bring that up when we already know it's not possible (given that, you know Pom didn't even vote for McCaber, and two of the other people who did are dead and now proven innocent, which just leaves Nog).

A hunter, like any other gifted, is best left in the shadows. I realize it's not as much of a risk as pointing out that you may who the ranger is, but that still doesn't make it a good idea. The wolves can base their plans on the disposition of the hunter, and I've seen it happen before, so I know how crucial it can be for the hunter to keep their identity a secret until either their death or a time of their own choosing. (Also, outing gifteds is a pet peeve of mine. It's not your role. You don't get to decide when they reveal it. Note it in your head, say maybe you just are misinterpreting something, put them on a trusted list, whatever, but never assume that they want to be pointed at.)

You actually have a good point about your vote on Dun. I keep forgetting that the first to a tie dies. I apologize.

That said, my comment on your attitude toDay regarding the lynch still stands. I believe that you thought the lynch was a wizard plot, but I also believe you could have kept your distance to keep yourself from being implicated, not because you didn't want Morsul dead.

You're allowed to defend yourself, but I'm still allowed to think suspicious behavior is suspicious. It's sort of part of the game.

[Rikae]

About Inzil... I mean, he's mad about me supposedly saying the Morsul voters had tunnel vision - why does he feel accused in that way? I never said that.
I saw several people zeroing in at once on what would be an easy lynch and without much reason. How my vote, the first of the day, for someone no one else seems to have a problem with, is anything like that is beyond me.
If he was an innocent who felt there were good reasons for voting Morsul, why jump like that?
No one listened to me yesterDay. In fact, I have a feeling people generally don't listen to me: that I'm one of those players people write off as "crazy" and unable to produce sense. When people do listen to me, those people are almost invariably evil.
Sorry, don't mean to sound so whiny.

EDIT: X'd with Sally.

[satansaloser2005]

I need to sleep. I'll be back in the morning, at which time I'll look at Dun outside the context of Rikae, and will also give more thought to the rest of those left in the group.

x'd with Rikae *hugs*

[Rikae]

I don't care how you want to spin it, Rikae. Pressing for a lynch, then backing off and saying, "Hey, guys, why'd you do that?" is....oh, wait, isn't that kind of what Pom did on Day 1? :rolleyes:

If you want to be incredibly simplistic about things, yes. It is also what I do, and what I have always done, when people join in my suspicion in a manner, and with timing, that is itself suspicious.
You know, like known wizards followed my suspicious several times already in this game alone - Cab even saying "great minds thinking alike"!

So, you know, as a strategy for finding wizards it kind of works and I intend to continue doing it.

Whether or not Brinn dreamt of you is irrelevant, and I honestly don't know why you're bringing it up.

Um, I don't know, maybe because she made a point of defending me the whole time she was alive?
Do you think she would have dreamt me and defended me if I was evil?
Do we have two cobblers or what?

As for McCaber, I didn't say you nearly lynched him on purpose, or even that your guild mates followed, although I find it interesting that you bring that up when we already know it's not possible (given that, you know Pom didn't even vote for McCaber, and two of the other people who did are dead and now proven innocent, which just leaves Nog).

I was talking about how Pom and McCaber followed me in suspecting Cop.

A hunter, like any other gifted, is best left in the shadows.
I disagree. Not always.
The wolves can base their plans on the disposition of the hunter.
This is precisely why it is sometimes good for them to know, or think they know, who the hunter is.
Catch my drift?

You actually have a good point about your vote on Dun. I keep forgetting that the first to a tie dies. I apologize.

That said, my comment on your attitude toDay regarding the lynch still stands. I believe that you thought the lynch was a wizard plot, but I also believe you could have kept your distance to keep yourself from being implicated, not because you didn't want Morsul dead.

You're allowed to defend yourself, but I'm still allowed to think suspicious behavior is suspicious. It's sort of part of the game.Did I say something wasn't allowed?
I said you're reaching. I mean, you look as though you want people to suspect me, more than you look as though you suspect me.

EDIT: Said Cab where I should have said Cop above, fixed it. These names are too close!

[Rikae]

Argh. Sorry for sounding so nasty/sarcastic. I think I'd better call it a night.

[Coppermirror]

...I can't believe that Inzil just self-voted. :(

Anyway, I haven't been able to use my computer for most of the Day so far, so I haven't yet done the analysis I planned to do on McCaber or the second look at Inzil in light of Morsul being innocent and McCaber a wizard. Although Morsul being innocent makes me much more suspicious of Inzil, it's not as if it's a foregone conclusion that after checking through all the facts I'll be wanting to vote for him. And only Rikae had voted for him so far.

And now Inzil's just self-voted. Why? The village (um, troll group) is pretty small now, so if he's innocent, that's tantamount to throwing us to the wolves, er, wizards. Although being frustrated over Rikae (and to an extent, I suppose, me) going for him would understandable. And if he's a wizard, I suppose it could be either a way of pretending to be frustrated innocent, or a way of signaling to a wizard-mate that they shouldn't try to save him.

[Nogrod]

Now what is this tom-foolery? :eek:

But yes, Zil's self-vote looks quite bad as it is hard for me to see why on earth would an innocent troll do that kind of thing with such a low numbers of us left.

Sally's strong reaction looks like she's coming to save a fellow by attacking Rikae. Then again she voted for Pom on D1 at quite a critical moment which kind of makes her look better.

And Rikae clearly stays up too late (I should know how that affects one... :rolleyes:).


This is going to be interesting.

I'll try to check things like voting patterns - and finally skim through D3 and D4 - later toDay.

[Nerwen]

...I can't believe that Inzil just self-voted. :(

Anyway, I haven't been able to use my computer for most of the Day so far, so I haven't yet done the analysis I planned to do on McCaber or the second look at Inzil in light of Morsul being innocent and McCaber a wizard. Although Morsul being innocent makes me much more suspicious of Inzil, it's not as if it's a foregone conclusion that after checking through all the facts I'll be wanting to vote for him. And only Rikae had voted for him so far.

And now Inzil's just self-voted. Why? The village (um, troll group) is pretty small now, so if he's innocent, that's tantamount to throwing us to the wolves, er, wizards. Although being frustrated over Rikae (and to an extent, I suppose, me) going for him would understandable. And if he's a wizard, I suppose it could be either a way of pretending to be frustrated innocent, or a way of signaling to a wizard-mate that they shouldn't try to save him.
If Zil and Rikae are both innocent, then there are five people left to vote, of whom two are wolves. So this would be an awfully bad time for an innocent to self-vote. (Not that Rikae's was great, either.)

Also, if Rikae is guilty after all, the tack Sally is now taking, we've been pretty much done for ever since Brinn died. Unfortunately that does happen sometimes– the Seer appearing to "clear" someone she hasn't actually dreamed– but there's little hope for the village in such a case, unless the supposed "known innocent" starts acting really suspiciously. As of the time of posting, I don't think that applies.

Originally Posted by Sally
The wolves can base their plans on the disposition of the hunter.
This is precisely why it is sometimes good for them to know, or think they know, who the hunter is.
Catch my drift?
Following that line of thought– is it possible the wolves had picked up "Hunter vibes" from Lottie? I had, for a couple of Days before that, though I can't put my finger on why. If they had, her views on guilt/innocence as of yesterDay might mean something– in the sense they would then likely pick a Night when she didn't seem to suspect any of them strongly. (This, you see, is sort of the opposite of looking at the views of a dead Seer.) Here (#567) (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680695&postcount=567), with only twenty minutes to go, she says Nog would actually be her preferred lynch over Morsul, and that she is "very wary" of him, and this is the only really strong suspicion she gives that Day of anyone except Morsul himself.

This is making quite an assumption, though– this close to the endgame, they could have simply been more interested in getting rid of a difficult-to-lynch player.

[Nerwen]

Along the same lines as my last post: McCaber's death was
likely one for which the wolves had no contingency plans. Sure, at this stage in the game they'd be mad not to consider the risk one of them might fall to the Hunter (whether they'd actually picked Lottie's role or not). But I bet it was a nasty shock for them to wake up and find McCaber dead- he ought to have looked safe from a possible Hunter-Lottie last Night.

Relevance? Well, some desperate or weird behaviour wouldn't be surprising- this- if Zil is in fact a wolf- may explain the self-vote, which otherwise seems ill-advised regardless of role.

And, of course, one has to wonder about Sally now...

[Nerwen]

Still no-one around? This is getting dull. Why can't we have some competing reveals or something?

*sigh*

I suppose I should do some analyses of things. The Day One voting ought to look different now that we know two of the main contenders were wolves.

[Nogrod]

Still no-one around?
...
The Day One voting ought to look different now that we know two of the main contenders were wolves.Just logged in and thought of going through the votes (and vote-timing!) now as we have some new information - and at least I have had only a vague idea of how the votes have gone of late as I haven't seen anyone making extensive tallies.

So I'm delving back into the thread.

If you're doing voting tallies with voting-times marked, please let me know Nerwen, so that we don't do the same work twice!

[Coppermirror]

I'm having computer trouble, so it may be a few hours before I can do anything useful. The weather is and has been so hot toDay that I don't dare leave my computer running for long. Maybe in an hour or so the temperature will cool down enough for it to be safe. Preferably before it gets to be daylight again...Anyway, assuming that happens I should be around later, since it's not as if I can sleep in this sort of weather either.

[Nogrod]

There needs to be a good reason for me to vote Copper: McCaberWizard and PomWizard voted for him in concerto on D1.

Okay, a crazy scenario: Copper is a wolf and they did it to save another fellow aka. Nerwen (with whom Copper tied with their two consecutive votes). But yes, I'm not going to take that one seriously, at least without further reasons to do so.

But that double-vote by the Wizards does does lead up to the question whether they then tried to save Nerwen there?

[Nogrod]

Agh, now I don't know what to think of Cab! I'd say he's jumping a bandwagon, but he says he crossed with me and Rikae earlier, in which case his suspicions are at least somewhat his own, rather than joining general change of suspicion. And I really need to go. Keep an eye on people going for Cop I'd say.Haha!

This post led me to suspect Pom heavily on D1 - not firstly because he said "keep an eye on Cop-voters", but rather because it felt like she panicked for the double-vote on Copper. Now that we know the other voter was CabWizard, the panic looks more understandable. And she even kind of defends Cab there!

The question sure stays: is this panic coming from only them two voting the same innocent troll, or is there a further reason to panic aka. them trying to save a third?

[Inziladun]

All right, I had a moment when I thought people were already making up their minds I was guilty. I was tired, and the fact that Rikae of all people was leading the charge induced me to rashness.
For what it's worth, I wouldn't do it again.

I had wanted to see Rikae as innocent, but instead saw what appeared to be blatant hypocrisy in the way she'd treated those who suspected Morsul compared to her tunnel vision toward me.

[Nogrod]

Voting D1

-11h #58 Coppermirror--> Boro (1)
-10h #60 Morsul --> Kath (1)
-8.30h #67 Brinn--> Nerwen (1)
-7.30h #73 Gil--> Nerwen (2)

-2.43h #101 Cab--> Coppermirror (1)
-2.39h #102 Pom--> Coppermirror (2) [xd w/ 101]

-1.10h #122 Rikae--> McCaber (1)
-1.02h #125 Green--> McCaber (2) [xd w/ 122]
-.55h #127 Inziladun--> Pom (1) [xd w/ 125]
-.46h #130 Ozban--> McCaber (3) [xd w/ 125, 127]
-.42h #131 Loslote--> Pom (2)
-.26h #136 Boro --> Coppermirror (3)
-.19h #139 Volo --> Nerwen (3)
-.16 #141 Sally --> Pom (3)
-.07h #146 Shasta -->Pom (4)
-.02h #148 Nog --> McCaber (4)

Did not vote: Bane Mantra, "Bane", Kath, "Kat", Nerwen, "Nerve"

Based on D1: looks less suspicious
Copper – two Wizards went for him with voting
Zil – if he is a Wizard his vote for Pom looks a bit daring
Rikae – Brinn says it quite without doubt she looks genuine (unlike from anyone else), she suspects Pom &McCaber (and votes the latter)
Sally – Her vote on Pom brings her in as a serious contender for lynch (alongside McCaber who is already there)

Based on D1: looks more suspicious
Nerwen – by implication: could be the reason two Wizards voted for the easiest lynch candidate t the point she started gathering votes + the fact that Pom clearly panicked somewhat realising what had happened.


More to come... (this is slow indeed)

[Nerwen]

Nerwen – by implication: could be the reason two Wizards voted for the easiest lynch candidate t the point she started gathering votes + the fact that Pom clearly panicked somewhat realising what had happened.
Well, as I'm not a wolf, all I can say, it "could be"... except that it isn't. I think they both voted for Cop because she was, at that point, the only person "on the table" for whom a vote would look legitimate rather than a piece of obvious evil bandwaggonning.

[Nerwen]

See, having looked at the votes myself, in the light of knowing McCaber's role,
I no longer think the remaining Pom voters look so good as formerly.

It had already been said that Zil's was the safest of the four- you (Nog) turn this around and call it "daring", but why? Especially as, if you look at the actual discussion at time, there could have been no way of telling that Pom would soon be in major trouble. Her comment had raised eyebrows, but at the time he voted, no more than that, and everyone seemed to have moved on. It's all there on the page.

Sally's vote speaks much more for her innocence- nonetheless, supposing she is actually a wolf, we should remember that of the other waggons she could have climbed on at that point, one had attracted a lot of controversy, one already had two wolves in it- and the third was for McWolf anyway.

[Nerwen]

Meanwhile, though Nog's comment about further votes telling us something is still weird and nonsensical, it does change things now that we know the person he was tying with the wolf was another wolf.

[Nogrod]

Well, as I'm not a wolf, all I can say, it "could be"... except that it isn't. I think they both voted for Cop because she was, at that point, the only person "on the table" for whom a vote would look legitimate rather than a piece of obvious evil bandwaggonning.That is exactly possible. As is that Brinn didn't dream of Rikae (:eek:), or that Kath actually is a wolf...

So, I said the voting on D1 makes you look "more suspicious" (by implication), not that I strongly believe you are a Wizard. But that's D1 only thus far.

I'd like to see the other Days' voting through before making any stronger claims on anyone's suspiciousness or unsuspiciousness.

D2 actually coming soon.


EDIT: X'd with Nerwen X2

[Nogrod]

It had already been said that Zil's was the safest of the four- you (Nog) turn this around and call it "daring", but why? Well, he could have voted for you or Copper easily to try to avoid McCaber -lynch were he a fellow-Wizard, but to put in another mate-in-crime (who had been suspected anyway) looks a bit unnecessary risk-taking.

And I did call it "a bit daring", not daring as such... :rolleyes:

[Nogrod]

Voting D2

-6h #196 Nerwen -> Nog (1)
-5h #200 Oz -> Morsul (1)
-4.07h #210 McCaber -> Rikae (1)
-3.55h #212 Brinn -> Volo (1)
-3.09h #216 Lottie -> Morsul (2)
-2.39h #220 Gil -> Volo 2
- 1.34h #228 Rikae -> Oz

-.51 #237 Zil -> Oz 2
-.48h #239 Kath -> Morsul 3
-.44h #240 Morsul -> Oz 3
-.39h #241 Copper -> Oz 4
-.02 #264 Volo -> Oz 5
-.01 #265 Nog -> Morsul 4
-.01 #266 Sally -> Morsul 5

Did not vote: Greenie, Bane, Boro, Shasta


After the very interesting D1 with at least two Wizards in danger and one eventually lynched, D2 was kind of an anti-climax with two innocents competing for the lynch.

And sadly there looked to be more or less decent grounds for suspecting both of the two aka Oz and Morsul so the Wizards were able to lean back and relax. So I'm afraid there is little the voting (or the discussion) tells us from D2.

[Nerwen]

Well, he could have voted for you or Copper easily to try to avoid McCaber -lynch were he a fellow-Wizard, but to put in another mate-in-crime (who had been suspected anyway) looks a bit unnecessary risk-taking.

And I did call it "a bit daring", not daring as such... :rolleyes:
Well, maybe it would be a "bit daring", but wolf-on-wolf is always at least a "bit daring" unless the other wolf is clearly doomed. As I said, his was always the vote I'd thought would have been the safest from a wolf- the latest revelation certainly doesn't change that.

No, I'm not on a crusade against Zil- but once again, I think the Pom voters don't look quite so shiny now that we know McCaber was a wolf anyway.

EDIT: x'd with Nog.

[satansaloser2005]

But yes, Zil's self-vote looks quite bad as it is hard for me to see why on earth would an innocent troll do that kind of thing with such a low numbers of us left.

It really does. That's the reason I'm sitting here and scratching my head. An innocent Dun wouldn't do that, I don't think, but Rikae's behavior yesterDay has me suspecting her as well, and the idea of them planning this is maddening. There would be a lot for Rikae to gain by lynching a packmate toDay, and at this stage it's such a crazy idea that people may doubt she would take the risk.

I'm off to reread the thread (after I take care of a few things at work, that is). We'll see what conclusions I come to when I've finished.


But first, a complete voting history, so I (and the rest of you, I suppose :p) have it handy.


DAY ONE
Coppermirror-->Boro
Morsul-->Kath
Brinn-->Nerwen
Gil-->Nerwen (2)
Cab-->Coppermirror
Pom-->Coppermirror (2)
Rikae-->McCaber
Green-->McCaber (2)
Inziladun-->Pom
Ozban-->McCaber (3)
Loslote-->Pom (2)
Boro-->Cop (3)
Volo-->Nerwen (3)
Sally-->Pom (3)
Shasta-->Pom (4)
Nog-->McCaber (4)

DAY TWO
Nerwen-->Nog
Oz-->Morsul
McCaber-->Rikae
Brinn-->Volo
Lottie-->Morsul (2)
Gil-->Volo (2)
Rikae-->Oz
Dun-->Oz (2)
Kath-->Morsul (3)
Morsul-->Oz (3)
Cop-->Oz (4)
Volo-->Oz (5)
Nog-->Morsul (4)
Sally-->Morsul (5)

DAY THREE
Rikae-->Rikae
Nerwen-->Rikae (2)
Morsul-->Rikae (3)
McCaber-->Morsul
Boromir-->Greenie
Lottie-->Nerwen
Gil-->Boro
Sally-->Morsul (2)
Cop-->Morsul (3)
Dun-->Gil
Greenie-->Boro (2)
Nog-->Boro (3)
Brinn-->Boro (4)
Kath-->Morsul (4)

DAY FOUR
Cop-->Gil
Nerwen-->Gil (2)
Sally-->Gil (3)
Rikae-->Gil (4)
Kath-->Sally
Cab-->Gil (5)
Morsul-->Sally (2)
Dun-->Gil (6)
Lottie-->Gil (7)
Nog-->Gil (8)

DAY FIVE
Morsul-->Sally
Cop-->Morsul
Zil-->Morsul (2)
Sally-->Morsul (3)
Cab-->Morsul (4)
Kath-->Sally (2)
Lottie-->Morsul (5)
Rikae-->Dun
Nog-->Sally (3)
Nerwen-->Morsul (6)

Known innocents italicized, known baddies underlined.


Off now. Back soon, I hope.


x'd since Nerwen's #631

[Nerwen]

It really does. That's the reason I'm sitting here and scratching my head. An innocent Dun wouldn't do that, I don't think, but Rikae's behavior yesterDay has me suspecting her as well, and the idea of them planning this is maddening. There would be a lot for Rikae to gain by lynching a packmate toDay, and at this stage it's such a crazy idea that people may doubt she would take the risk.
What I said- if Rikae is a wolf after all, we've aleady lost, because there's no way she's going to be lynched now unless she climbs the gallows and sticks her head in the noose. Or someone manages to make a truly damning case on her. Short of that, I think we just have to assume she's innocent now.

[Nogrod]

Going through D3 and finding things I had half-forgotten.

Now why the Wizards killed Volo? I still think the seer is the primary target of the baddies. But he suspected and voted Nerwen on D1 but on D2 kind of clears her and says he feels like he has "lost his case" on her.

Meanwhile he keeps on suspecting Rikae from D1 (even referring to her as Pom^2 on D2).

So if his first post that looked like a seer hint and his "testament" at the last minute of D2 were not enough, then, if Rikae was a Wizard, that could have been enough for them to feel the need to check him out?

No, I'm not on a crusade against Zil- but once again, I think the Pom voters don't look quite so shiny now that we know McCaber was a wolf anyway.I do agree. I don't think Pom-voters are shiny - and neither are McCaber-voters as such. wolf-on-wolf does happen every now and then.

And I'm neither saying Zil's vote on D1 on Pom would overthrow my suspicions of him from his self-vote, which just doesn't make sense if he's innocent.


Thank's for the tallies Sally (almost rhymes!), they save me from some typing and I can look at where the interesting moments are if I realize I can't do all the Days (looks probable...).


EDIT: X'd with Nerwen

[Nerwen]

Anyway, I will not be voting yet. Too much of a risk.

[satansaloser2005]

What I said- if Rikae is a wolf after all, we've aleady lost, because there's no way she's going to be lynched now unless she climbs the gallows and sticks her head in the noose. Or someone manages to make a truly damning case on her. Short of that, I think we just have to assume she's innocent now.

....We just give up? No. I don't give up. Fine, maybe we lynch Dun toDay because we "have no other option," but toMorrow has not been decided.

There have been two votes cast for Dun toDay. Assuming Rikae or Dun is a wolf, which one of them pretty much has to be, it's still entirely possible that we could lynch someone else, though I'm honestly thinking Dun is a good choice toDay. If he's innocent (which would make him a legitimate troll, and would make me quite cross), Rikae is pretty certainly a wizard. If he's guilty, then she's either a lovely and clever young lady or she's wolf-on-wolfing so hard that even Shasta would blush. Either is a possibility, and to dismiss the possibility that she is a clever scheming wolf is absurd.

This is Rikae we're talking about. She knows how to play this game. She is absolutely capable of doing something crazy like this and getting away with it.


x'd with Nog and Nerwen

[satansaloser2005]

Anyway, I will not be voting yet. Too much of a risk.

Seconded. I will (theoretically) be around until deadline and have no intention of voting until it's more prudent to do so.

[Nogrod]

What I said- if Rikae is a wolf after all, we've aleady lostIsn't that a bit overdoing our predicament?

It's 5:2, right?

If we lynch an innocent it will be 4:2 come the Night.

If the ranger doesn't make another save, it will be 3:2, and there will be a toMorrow.

Now that would be a tough ordeal, but not a lost game. Especially if we had good reasons to stand up together toMorrow. And let's not forget the possibility the ranger really gives us a gift. The numbers come down and the chances that the ranger gets it right increase all the time.

So let's cheer up and be positive - and do some Wizard-hunting toDay!


EDIT: X'd with Sally X2

[Nogrod]

Anyway, I will not be voting yet. Too much of a risk.If you're a decent troll, please come back before the DL - and it's a decent choice not to vote yet. I hope we can find something from back there toDay (at least I feel I have lost all touch on the last two Days).

If you're a Wizard, I hope you forget the DL... :)

[Nerwen]

Now why the Wizards killed Volo? I still think the seer is the primary target of the baddies. But he suspected and voted Nerwen on D1 but on D2 kind of clears her and says he feels like he has "lost his case" on her.

Meanwhile he keeps on suspecting Rikae from D1 (even referring to her as Pom^2 on D2).

So if his first post that looked like a seer hint and his "testament" at the last minute of D2 were not enough, then, if Rikae was a Wizard, that could have been enough for them to feel the need to check him out?
We've been over this- yes, it seemed very plausible- but then we now have the comments of the real Seer about Rikae...

[Nerwen]

....We just give up? No. I don't give up. Fine, maybe we lynch Dun toDay because we "have no other option," but toMorrow has not been decided.

There have been two votes cast for Dun toDay. Assuming Rikae or Dun is a wolf, which one of them pretty much has to be, it's still entirely possible that we could lynch someone else, though I'm honestly thinking Dun is a good choice toDay. If he's innocent (which would make him a legitimate troll, and would make me quite cross), Rikae is pretty certainly a wizard. If he's guilty, then she's either a lovely and clever young lady or she's wolf-on-wolfing so hard that even Shasta would blush. Either is a possibility, and to dismiss the possibility that she is a clever scheming wolf is absurd.

This is Rikae we're talking about. She knows how to play this game. She is absolutely capable of doing something crazy like this and getting away with it.
Absolutely- but it's still the fact that unless something really happens to incriminate her, in practical terms it's very unlikely she's going to be lynched, because of Brinn's comments.

[Rikae]

There have been two votes cast for Dun toDay. Assuming Rikae or Dun is a wolf, which one of them pretty much has to be


Why on earth would that be the case? What a bizarre thing to say.

EDIT: Fixed quote.

[satansaloser2005]

Absolutely- but it's still the fact that unless something really happens to incriminate her, in practical twems it's very unlikely she's going to be lynched, because of Brinn's comments.

You've just agreed with me. I obviously think she's shifty. That's two of the five or six players we'll have alive toMorrow. It's not all that far-fetched, really. And the beauty of wolf-on-wolf tactics is that other players may not believe they have happened until the game is over and the wolves have won. Believe me. I know this. *glares at Shasta* We can't wait for her to do something crazy, say, voting herself (oh, wait, she's already done that), because if she's a wolf, she's already going crazy with the wolf-on-wolfing, and some of us are just ignoring it.

As for Brinn's comments, she could have been protecting Rikae because she had a hunch, or because of how upset Rikae got that one Day, or, yes, because she dreamt her. A seer has more information, true, but she is still a player just like the rest of us. If she went on just what she knew to be true, she would have tunnel vision so hard she'd run into a wall. Brinn still had to work from her own hunches, not just her dreams. We don't know what her dreams were. We can guess, but our guesses are exactly that, so we can't act purely based on what we think Brinn knew, because we may be wrong.

And now I really, really need to take a few steps back before I join the tunnel vision club. I'll be back shortly-ish with thoughts on Nog, Nerwen, Kath, and Cop. Oh, and DunDunDun. ;)


x'd with Rikae

[Nogrod]

The last Days have been just crazy bandwagon-days: Days 2 & 3 were runs between innocents and Days 4 & 5 total Wagons for innocents. We have been playing this soo bad lately, well after D1 that is. :(

There is little to read from there and I feel like abandoning my great plan of going them through all from the beginning to the end. But I do think we'd need to check a few things.


On D3 the early wagon for Rikae (unknown) turned into Boro (innocent) and Morsul (innocent) -wagons. How did that happen?

Also, how did the wagons for Gil (innocent) and Morsul (innocent) took air on Days 4 and 5 respectively?

Are there any connections between the wagons or in trickering them (not just initiating them but especially in making them "wagons" in the first place aka. making other choices not worthwhile)?

Also, I'd like to have Brinn's wordings re-checked. Not only what she said of Rikae as to check how much we can trust her innocence, but also whether there are any hints whatsoever as to whom she might have dreamt of.

And Kath needs to be read more closely... The almost total ignorance or silence of everyone with her is kind of screaming at me at the moment as I realise it.


EDIT: X'd with Rikae & Sally

[Rikae]

Well?

I mean, I certainly hope he's a wolf, but he might not be, and if not, lynching me toMorrow will guarantee the wizards' (your?) win.

So you're going to need to give a reason for that statement.

EDIT: X'd with Nog, addressed to Sally.

[Nogrod]

I was reading backwards Brinn's posts (starting from the end of D3) but they are really hard to read. It seems she was playing it very safe, probably not presuming she would be killed that early.

I need to check the earlier ones also before trying to form any bigger picture about them. And now I need to run for some groceries and making a dinner. I'll be back in about two hours...

[Coppermirror]

Back and reading.

[Coppermirror]

Nog: If he's a Nog-wizard, we now know that he wasn't voting McCab in order to save Pom. However, he might have been doing it in order to set himself up to look better later, by sitting on the fence and seeming to suspect both of those two. Overall I'd say the new info makes him look a little better, but...

So why on earth - if I were a packmate of Pom - did I do what I did? That would have been soo unnecessary an attempt (the possibility of it going down the drain aka. Pom getting lynched anyway would have been high indeed while risking myself) while the other option (making sure Pom gets lynched and I get the glory for it) would have been so much more smoother. I would have been a very stupid wolf

That would actually be explained given that both McCab and Pom were wizards, and voting for the other candidates might well look fishy.

Aside from that, McCaber seemed to suspect him...

Rikae: I do have to agree with Nerwen that unless we get some serious new info on Rikae, if she was actually a wizard all this time, we're probably sunk as a troll village.

Also, note how McCab went for her in post #210.

Sally: #215 from her worries me in that she's jumping on the "innocent McCab" thing from Morsul and pointing out that Lottie said it first. I think the "innocent McCab" would be a great thing for wizards to use as ammo, knowing that of course, McCab really wasn't.

Although in #217, she's still suspecting him on the grounds of Pom's reaction to his vote looking incriminating. Would that really be a safe thing for a wizard Sally to keep in people's minds?

Anyway, those are just my thoughts so far as I look through the pages0

I have to mention, I have to vote within half an hour of now or not vote at all, and I'm still having trouble with my computer being slow in hot weather (although I think it's not at risk of damaging itself any more...), which is making going through the previous pages even slower. If I haven't voted within 40 minutes, you can safely assume there is no chance whatsoever that I'll be back toDay.

[Kath]

So, SO sorry to be doing this on toDay of all Days ... but this is it from me. I am only just home and going straight back out.

+sally
For reasons previously stated. Lottie said I was being 'typical innocent' by trying to make Morsul's vote for sally fit my wolf theory. No. I was saying that made Morsul less likely to be a wolf if sally was one. Well, Morsul wasn't a wolf. So sally.

Really, really sorry for being all but a no-show.

[Nogrod]

Well, Day3 was not much of a help... if not helping to feel that Brinn was quite seriously defending Rikae when the spot was tight. And then got killed the next Night.


What happened on D3?

Brinn comes to defend Rikae and to suspect Nerwen immediately after Rikae's self-vote and Nerwen's quick vote for Rikae.

Morsul votes for Rikae while Zil echoes Brinn in no uncertain terms saying Rikae "logically would have not done that" and that he's "not buying it". Zil also suspects Nerwen's quick vote.

After Rikae's and Nerwen's row things seem to settle down and most all think Rikae is not going to be voted that Day.

Just for the sheer oddity and fun of it, I have to cite McCaber-Wizard here, one of Rikae's earliest and staunchest supporters during the row: Yes. I expect people to use their better judgment. The situation doesn't add up for Rikae being evil and simultaneously freaking out like that. That would put a vast undue burden on packmates in the very early stages of the game. And her whole confession post is incoherent probably on purpose trying to showcase the absurdity of her actions.:)

Some (I think) decent points were made against Boro and he got voted by a few - and then those who didn't like Boro being voted went for Morsul.

I'm not sure I wish to go through whole of the Days 4 and 5 the next... so a pause for thinking where or what to look. Anybody else out there?

[satansaloser2005]

Holy crap. I've only now reached the end of Day 3. Thoughts on that coming soon, I guess, for I'm running out of time.

[Nogrod]

One has to start on something then.

Reading things back toDay gives me these.


Rikae - more or less needs to be innocent. She was so heavily defended by Brinn on D3 (and Brinn got killed the next Night) and there were some hints - even if not too clear ones that Brinn had dreamt of her, probably on the first Night (quite a believable choice).

I can see scenarios where Rikae is a Wizard but well, one has to start with something: so probably not a wizard


Nerwen - Her quick vote on Rikae is a bit odd and the consecutive votes of two Wizards on D1 could be seen as trying to help a mate - although in fairness' sake it must be said that it would have been very odd - and fun indeed - if the major suspects on D1 had been three (or even four?) Wizards!!!

If the Wizards were going after Volo as a possible seer though (it is a possible scenario even if Rikae would be a basic troll as well), then she'd look very good indeed - and I do like that explanation as it puzzles me why they killed Volo who just screamed to be lynched and was not one of them (so a kill wasted?).


Sally - Her vote for Pom on D1 would have been really daring for a mate (especially as McCaber was high on the agenda already).

Then again her other votes have been mostly very careful indeed, while on D5 the timing of her vote was almost perfect to end up too many other candidates being fitted in (and it was actually McCaber who in five minutes sealed that). On the other side of the issue, she herself was the only person voted thus far beside Morsul.

What Kath suggests kind of puzzles me though... yeah, Sally seems to have voted for Morsul three times out of five (then one time Pom and one time with everyone else for Gil) but does Morsul's innocence make her a Wizard? It could (the insistence on voting a generally suspicious player might be a safe Wizard-tactics), but does it (did she really vote a mate onD1 in such a situation?)?


Some others in a moment.

[Nogrod]

Continuing...


Copper - Looks pretty genuine most of the time and then sometimes feels foul. Votes mostly early and in the way the general wind seems to blow.

Then again the fact that two known Wizards voted for her almost simultaneously would speak good for her. It would be absurd and like a story of the decade if two wolves decided to try and look good and crosspost a vote for their mate thus making her a seroius contender to be lynched.

So I need to say I'm relying Copper being more innocent than not.


Kath - I'm really yet no wiser about her (I see I haven't read her posts toDay either - I try to fix that after I leave this post) - like none seems to be. That in itself should be creepy!

On the other habd one could say that a victory scored while being a submarine is not a real victory. If she has posted substantially on Days 4 & 5 (which I'm not sure I have seen), then our ignorance is to blame if she is a Wizard.


Inzil - It is really hard for me to think an innocent makes a self-vote in situation like this (meaning the numbers we have), but a Wizard might try a copy-cat thing after seeing Rikae got away with hers. Yet the idea bothers me - like the idea we 're going to have one more bandwagon where more or less everyone vote the same.

He did give Pom the first vote on D1 (which actually led to her lynching) when two others (Nerwen and Copper) were leading the tally with two votes (and McCaber had one - and with a crosspost two as well).


Okay. Needs to have a decision on this...

[Nogrod]

I did some fast skimming on Kath's posting and they seemed very much independent-minded - and made by sokmeone who only has occasional time for the game. So I'd rather not vote her toDay.

I see she is most suspicious of Sally and Copper.

Blah, it all seems come down to this: in how dire straits the Wizards really were on Day1? Were there two Wizards voted heavily, three, or even all of them?

And after that they all more or less avoided notice, until hopefully toDay?

That sounds pretty much incredible.



Where's everyone?


The tally (hopefully someone corrects it if it is wrong)

Rikae -> Inzil
Inzil -> Inzil (2)
Kath -> Sally

[satansaloser2005]

Kath's over-defensiveness regarding her Wizard of Oz outburst early in the game struck me as an honestly frustrated and confused Kath.


Rikae spends a little too much time comparing this game to Dueling Wizards. She mentions it in her #11, then again in #30, and possibly again in another place (though I'm rushing now and may be misremembering). In one of those posts (#30), she says Pom, Dun, and Cab are trying to convince people that wizards are good. Why the fixation with that game? Well, if I'm right....

Rikae says in her #66 she wants to lynch Dun because "I always suspect him, simple as that." Dun nearly votes her in #71, but it's clearly a joke, and he adds "Not yet" to the end of his post.

Then she's suddenly (well, not suddenly) at his throat toDay, and he goes along with it? I want to know how the rest of you are not suspicious of all of this.


Moving on....

"I don't like the way Pom and Cab went for Cop at all," says Rikae in her #109. It could be actual concern, but it seems like an older wolf unhappy with her mates' clearly unwise behavior.

Dun's "Yes indeed" in #160 to Cab's comment about more than one wizard going for Cop (the original comment was made by Pom) is almost certainly wolf sarcasm.

Nerwen's analyses of Pom and Nog (#168 and #188 respectively) look like innocent Nerwen, and are reasonable. She makes some good points about Nog's vote for McCaber. It really was odd, and continues to bother me.

In #221 Cop says she's not worried about Dun for once. This strikes me as odd.

Rikae's #228: "Yes, I'm late, which proves I'm not a wizard." No. Just....no. Also, part of that post looks, again, like an alpha addressing her cubs.

Rikae was also strangely pushy about me looking at Oz. Not pushy in a rude way, but it didn't seem like something an innocent Rikae would do. Of course the other options at the time were Volo and Morsul, and she'd have wanted both of those to die (going back to the possibility that the wolves thought Volo was the seer), so I don't really see the point to her pushing me toward it when it didn't benefit her (unless she thought Oz was another gifted, which is possible).

In retrospect, Nog was in an excellent position on the Day Oz died, which could be why he asked for my opinion; it didn't matter to him who was lynched, as long as somebody was. And then in his #267 he says, "This turns out interesting indeed!!!" It could easily be a gloating wolf, um, gloating.

Rikae's self-vote continues to be shifty. If she were the purseholder (as Nog proposed in a later post), I'd think she would have been clearer about it, or at least less reckless afterward. It doesn't ring true to me. She's done this enough times to know that it won't necessarily get you lynched, and she's smart enough to plan it out so she survived and is now trusted by most....holy crap, that's what is going on at the moment. Again, why is everyone else trusting her so?

Dun defends Rikae in his #308, as does Cab in #365. Dun says he doesn't buy her confession. Of course now the opposite is happening, so that's....interesting.

Cop (and others) cited Volo's suspicion of Rikae, which she still seems to be denying.

Kath's talk of Volo in #383 looks wrong to me, though I'm honestly starting to skim at this point, so I'll have to think more on it toMorrow if I'm still alive.

"Someone join me so this vote [for Gil] is not for nothing." Stay classy, Dun. :p



Posting this and then voting. Dun is almost certainly evil, and Rikae really looks like his packmate. Gah. Time really whizzed by toDay.


I'll bold this later. Sorry. No time. (ETA: Bolded now, yay!)


x'd since my last

[satansaloser2005]

++Dun

[satansaloser2005]

I'm sorry that post is so disjointed. I'd planned to actually go back and quote things and say more, but I suddenly got handed a bunch of work early in the afternoon and simply didn't have time. I'm sure there are parts of that post that don't make sense outside of my head, and I'll be happy to explain them toMorrow if I'm around, but I wanted to type up the scribbles I had, so....ugh. There'll be time toMorrow, I hope.

Quick list then, based on what I read just now.


Suspicious:
Dun
Rikae

Fence-sitting:
Nog
Cop

Trusting for now:
Nerwen
Kath

[Nogrod]

Okay. If Nerwen is a Wizard, then I'd say Sally (or Zil) could be one too.

ToDay Zil looks the most suspicious.

If the wolves were really bold - and their situation was really insane - it might even be that Copper and Nerwen are the last wolves.


EDIT: X'd with Sally X2

[satansaloser2005]

....Are you not voting, Nog? :eek:

[Nogrod]

Sooo torn about the choices!

Zil and someone or Sally & Nerwen?

Nerwen yet to vote so no chance there (and if Sally is a wolf she will not join me there. Where's Copper?

Blast

++ Zil


EDIT: Bolded names - realised the hurry a bit too late...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

DEADLINE.

Zil is lynched, stop posting, narration's coming up.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

We don't have to tell you how annoyed the trolls were after they had had their bellies empty for two days straight.

"I want to eat someone. Actually, I want to eat Lad," said Rick.
"I have no doubt I would be delicious," said Lad darkly.
"I think Sal would be juicier," Kat argued.
"Lad doesn't seem to be objecting," Sal pointed out.
"Yer right," said Nog, and grabbed Lad.
"Don't yer push me, I can walk," Lad spat and walked out of the cave.


The others followed quickly on his heels and they came to the place where the trolls had made their fire the previous night.

"We 'ave still some wood left," Cop pointed out. "It should be enough if 'e's a wizzer."
"Wizzers are small," Nerve confirmed. "But they are enough for a good supper."

They found a big, heavy log, placed it upright and tied Lad to it. Rick piled the remaining firewood around him and Sal set it alight.

"He ain't even strugglin'," Nog voiced the general concern.
"Did we roast a troll again?" Kat asked.

To everyone's surprise, Lad laughed coldly. Flames were beginning to lick his toes, but he did not seem to mind.

"Your fire cannot kill me, you fools. I wield the flame of Anor!"
"The fire can't hurt 'im, 'e says," Cop repeated what they all just heard. "Bring more wood!"
"It ain't like he can escape, anyway," Sal noted. "If he won't burn, he'll choke from the smoke."
"And then we eat him," Nerve added.
"That won't help either. I've had enough of this! Your ropes cannot keep me here. I have many allies. I will fly, you fools!"
"Can he fly?" Rick asked, puzzled.

Lad did not reply, but instead he looked into the sky with an intensive look in his eyes. He was starting to change: he didn't really look very much like a troll anymore, he looked smaller, much more cunning and kind of bearded.
"Where are you, my moth, when I need you?" he muttered under his breath, scanning the skies with his bright eyes.

The flames rose higher, and Lad let out a long wail.

"My moth has deserted me, and so have my eagles! I have no friends anymore! And that once they called me Inzilgast the Bird-tamer!"

He wailed, and cried, but his tears were not enough to dose the fire. They watched him grill - quite nicely actually - but then, to their dismay (as much as trolls can be dismayed), his body seemed to shrink even more, and it seemed as the long years of death have finally revealed on it; and as they looked, it shrank and the shrivelled face became rags of burnt skin upon a charred skull. Then grey mist gathered about Lad's body, and rising slowly with the smoke, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed above the bonfire. For a moment it wavered, then came a wind from the east and with a sigh, it disappeared.

The trolls were left without food again.


~*~


Dumb and Dead
Thinlómien, "Lom", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1
Legate of Amon Lanc, "Leg", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1
Pomegranate, "Pom", a Wizard, boiled and eaten on Day 1
Ozban, "Oz", an Ordinary Troll, crushed to death by a troll pyramid on Day 2
Volo, "Vol", Traitor Troll, magically opened up like a door on Night 3
Bane Mantra, "Bane", an Ordinary Troll, turned into stone while hunting (modfired) on Day 3
Boromir88, "Bore", Ordinary Troll, forgotten outside the cave and turned into stone on Day 3
Brinniel, "Brin", the Clever Troll, strangled to death with the assistance of magical studs on Night4
Gil-Galad, "Gil", an Ordinary Troll, beaten to death by his fellows on Day 4
Shastanis Althreduin, "Shaz", an Ordinary Troll, lost in search for Bane (modfired) on Day 4
A Little Green, "Green", an Ordinary Troll, blown up with fireworks on Night 5
Morsul the Dark, "Mors", an Ordinary Troll, roasted, but not eaten on Day 5
Loslote, "Lot", the Purse-holder Troll, lured into daylight on Night 6
McCaber, "Cab", a Wizard, identified by the troll-purse and suffocated to death on Night 6
Inziladun, "Lad", a Wizard, roasted but not rescued on Day 6

Dumb and Walking
Coppermirror, "Cop"
Kath, "Kat"
Nerwen, "Nerve"
Nogrod, "Nog"
Rikae, "Rick"
satansaloser2005, "Sal"


~*~


Night 7 has started. Wizzer, send your pick. Insomniac troll, send yours. Others sleep.

[Thinlómien]

As dawn broke, the lonely wizard left the cave. He had no friends anymore, only enemies, but their numbers had fallen too. A great weariness came upon him, for he had seen and done much, and sorrow had lined his face and whitened his hair. If he ever returned and saw some of his friends again, they would tell him he looked older.

He sat alone on a rock, watching the sun, so brilliant on the sky. He remembered meeting her in the West many ages ago. He remembered her smile and it gave him hope: he wasn't and wouldn't ever be the lone agent of Light in this great evergoing battle. He gathered his robes and missed his hat fervently, then hurried of to slay a troll.

In the troll-cave, meanwhile, Cop was dreaming of a meat pie. Her mum had been a great cook, and she had always cooked their food, experimenting with pies, soups and stews. Cop had eaten nothing as good as her cookings for years, and the thought of her mum's creations still made her cry sometimes. Lom and Leg and their bunch just couldn't do some things, and cooking was one of those.

Cop rolled in her sleep. After Green's death she had taken her quilts and rags and her sleeping place too, or whatever remained of it after the ceiling had come down. The other trolls didn't want to sleep there, believing that corner of the cave to bring bad luck, so Cop cherished the feeling of having more space and being further away from the other smelly, snoring trolls who kicked each other in their sleep.

Now Cop woke up, quite unpleasantly. It took her a while to figure out what had woken her: it was daylight. Dumbfounded, she stared at the ceiling. There was undoubtedly a small hole in it, just over her bed. She was certain it hadn't been there before, but now she finally understood why the others considered it an unlucky spot.

Unfortunately, it was too late for her. She felt her skin stiffen, her insides go heavy. She was turning into stone. The last thing she saw was a slender figure in dark robes against the splendid sunlight. It laughed with such genuine mirth that Cop would have laughed too despite everything if she hadn't been half stone already. "Thank you, Arien," the laughing voice said, which made whatsoever no sense to Cop. She died before she could figure it out.

When night fell, the remaining trolls woke up. They were quite upset to find Cop turned into stone inside the cave and figure out they would need to fix the ceiling before dawn, as well as find food and kill a wizard.


~*~


Dumb and Dead
Thinlómien, "Lom", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1
Legate of Amon Lanc, "Leg", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1
Pomegranate, "Pom", a Wizard, boiled and eaten on Day 1
Ozban, "Oz", an Ordinary Troll, crushed to death by a troll pyramid on Day 2
Volo, "Vol", Traitor Troll, magically opened up like a door on Night 3
Bane Mantra, "Bane", an Ordinary Troll, turned into stone while hunting (modfired) on Day 3
Boromir88, "Bore", Ordinary Troll, forgotten outside the cave and turned into stone on Day 3
Brinniel, "Brin", the Clever Troll, strangled to death with the assistance of magical studs on Night4
Gil-Galad, "Gil", an Ordinary Troll, beaten to death by his fellows on Day 4
Shastanis Althreduin, "Shaz", an Ordinary Troll, lost in search for Bane (modfired) on Day 4
A Little Green, "Green", an Ordinary Troll, blown up with fireworks on Night 5
Morsul the Dark, "Mors", an Ordinary Troll, roasted, but not eaten on Day 5
Loslote, "Lot", the Purse-holder Troll, lured into daylight on Night 6
McCaber, "Cab", a Wizard, identified by the troll-purse and suffocated to death on Night 6
Inziladun, "Lad", a Wizard, roasted but not rescued on Day 6
Coppermirror, "Cop", an Ordinary Troll, spotlighted on Night 7

Dumb and Walking
Kath, "Kat"
Nerwen, "Nerve"
Nogrod, "Nog"
Rikae, "Rick"
satansaloser2005, "Sal"


~*~


As you all know, Day 7 is going on. My invitation for the live people to talk is naturally still valid.

[Nogrod]

Interesting choice... I thought it would have been either me or Rikae, or if the last wolf was sporty, then Kath.

But a sporty-choice anyway. Me likes that. Even if Kath would have been even better as we'd then have only people who can be read and who have influenced the game left (unless she made the decision, of course!).

So one of us is a Wizard.

Kath, "Kat"
Nerwen, "Nerve"
Nogrod, "Nog"
Rikae, "Rick"
satansaloser2005, "Sal"

We have two Days to make it right aka. two lynches. Which makes me slightly optimistic about it. And hey, we have the ranger left! (Which might be partly responsible for the kill-choice, now as I think about it)

The next step; looking at Inzil as he's now a proven Wizard. If he'd give us as much new POV's to look at things as McCaber's proven Wizardry gave us, it'd be good. But he seemed to be quite careful if my feeling has it right. Anyway, back to see what he did for starters.

[Nogrod]

I think Zil was trying intentionally not to leave a consistent trail of his voting, or then he is just majorly going where the wind blows, or what do you say about this voting-record?

D1
Votes for a packmate (Pom) when another packmate (McCaber) is under some fire (Pom ends up lynched with McCaber a close second).

D2
Votes the second for the starting bandwagon for an innocent (Oz) who gets lynhced marginally beating another innocent to lynch (Morsul).

D3
Votes an innocent (Gil) against the two bandwagons (Boro & Morsul) at the time.

D4
Joins the wagon on an innocent (Gil) as the third last voter - that being easy as he "had suspected" him already the Day before.

D5
Votes early for the more or less obvious Wagon-to-be innocent (Morsul).

D6
Votes self almost 20 hours before the DL, copying Rikae's self-vote, possibly thinking it might work for him too.


Well, little to find from there.

I might be up for a moment still and look for something either in Zil's posting (if he fex. defended someone at crucial moments) or taking a look at Kath... Both I think are things we should do toDay.

[Nogrod]

Oh and...

Voting Day6

-20h #606 Rikae -> Inzil (1)
-19½h #607 Inzil -> Inzil (2)
-2.44h #654 Kath -> Sally (1)
-.07 #661 Sally -> Inzil (3)
-.00 #665 Nog -> Inzil (4)

Did not vote: Copper, Nerwen

[satansaloser2005]

No surprise on Dun. The only question was (and still is) who his last mate might be. I have a few comments to make on voting yesterDay (some repeats, some new), so I'll get to that shortly.

Cop was a bit of a shock though. Then again, I didn't expect to get it last Night because I'm decently suspected (by Kath anyway, and also Rikae), so it makes sense to keep me around. Why Cop though? I'll have a go later on and see if I can put together any reasoning other than "because she was there."

As Nog said, we have two Days to do this. Let's not be hasty. Speaking of which, I need something tasty. I'll return after dinner.

[Nerwen]

Sorry about yesterDay- I just got caught up and wasn't able to get back online at all.

So... From my point of view, either Zil's last packmate tried to save him by simply voting somone else (Kath), tried to save him by casting suspicion elsewhere, then finally gave up and bussed him (Sally or Nog), or mugged him and dragged him kicking and screaming all the way to the bus (Rikae).

All are within each player's range, but the last is not seeming at all likely to me.

[satansaloser2005]

Dun wasn't kicking and screaming though. He absolutely let us kill him. And, unless his packmate is you or Kath (only the latter seeming at all likely at the moment), his packmate didn't have a problem with it. The question, then, is whether his packmate initiated the lynch or just went along with it.

As for the absence, don't worry about it. I'm just glad you're back. :)

[Rikae]

So, what does everyone else think of Sally's behavior yesterday? Going single-mindedly after me from the second I accused Zil, then at the end of the day switching to "it's wolf on wolf"?

I don't want to be hasty but she's my top suspect at the moment (although the last wolf could always be Kath, in which case I wouldn't have a clue about it).

[Nogrod]

Well, it was as little enlightening I had a feeling it would be. Kath has ben really pressed on time and has made considerably little by way of posting (actually the number of her posts looks like something decentish but quite a many of them are of a kind "I'm here", "is there a tally?", or just explaining why she can't be around etc.).

Now that in itself is most understandable and doesn't say anything about her role: if you're pressed on time you're pressed on time - and that's what you end up posting.

One can see a logic there in her posting and votes though. A logic that would fit both an innocent with little time to use but willing to make reasoned votes, or a wolf with little time to use but willing to look like she was making reasoned votes...

First she votes Morsul two Days in a row (Days 2&3) because of his "Innocent Cab" remark.

Then she votes Sally three times (Days 4-6) because of her Gil-vote on D4 (#473: that suspicion was based on the speculation about who Brinn had dreamt of - and her point being Sally was kind of riding two horses at the same time). She elaborates her suspicion of Sally in #554.

During the last Days she has found Morsul and Copper suspicious as well, but Sally has clearly been her suspicion #1.


Summary: Logical, consistent... not spreading one's attention too wide when the pages pile up over another. Like what a time-pressed responsible ordo would do - or a time-pressed reasonable wolf would do...

I'm more or less as unenlightened as I was before I strated looking at Kath's posting...


EDIT: X'd with a few it seems

[satansaloser2005]

So, what does everyone else think of Sally's behavior yesterday? Going single-mindedly after me from the second I accused Zil, then at the end of the day switching to "it's wolf on wolf"?

There was no switch at all, which you'd realize if you actually read my posts properly.

If [Rikae]'s a wizard, she's clearly not afraid to vote for her mates, as she cast the first vote against McCaber on Day 1 (though Day 1 is always a bit with the random and it's entirely possible she didn't think he'd garner more votes). Would she be bussing Dun in such a showy fashion though? And would he go along with it like this? Both of them are tricksy, clever little Werewolfers, so I wouldn't put it past them, but doing it like this is just....crazy.

That, I believe you'll find, was one of my first posts of yesterDay. So yes, I was hesitant to believe it right at first, because, you know, it's insanity, but then I realized how guilty I think you are, blinked a couple of times, and reminded myself that you are a very intelligent and evil woman and that you would totally do that.

Also, you'll note that the above quote about you and Dun came after I made commentary on your other actions. Yes, I'd seen your vote, but it wasn't the basis of my suspicion, not for a second. You've done plenty of other things to make me think you're a scheming wizard. The shenanigans with Dun just made me realize exactly how much of a scheming wizard you probably are.

Suspect me all you want, but don't misrepresent me. I don't appreciate it anymore than you do.


x'd with Nog

[Nogrod]

So, what does everyone else think of Sally's behavior yesterday? Going single-mindedly after me from the second I accused Zil, then at the end of the day switching to "it's wolf on wolf"?That looked weird indeed...

And I kind of liked Nerwen's POV-declaration. It might be nice if everyone made one like that. I mean yes, why we thought anyone of the others were suspicious.

But yes, I need to check back Sally from yesterDay as I do remember having wondered her sudden attack on Rikae and that was part of why I suspected her as well and felt quite awkward in the end of the Day. I mean I was feeling Zil the most straightforward-vote there to be with his odd "copy-cat" self-vote and resignation - but when Sally finally voted and pressed me whether I was going to vote or not, I suddenly got the feeling she was wishing to see me vote the way she liked - and thus if she was a baddie then I would have helped her to achieve her goal. And as there were possible votes to come... well, that was a tight spot even for a veteran player.

:cool: (Oh I love the adrenaline-rush!)

[Rikae]

Pardon me - would it be more accurate to say that in the beginning you suggested that it might be wolf-on-wolf but suspected me more, but later in the day you were basically sure of it (suspected Inzil just as much)?

It doesn't change my point, which is that you were fixated on me being evil all day, and seemed to decide Inzil was over the course of the day (although now you claim it was obvious).

And about that: if it was so obvious, what's so strange about me going after him, that it has to be wolf-on-wolf? Am I not smart enough to pick up on the obvious?

I also answered several of your accusations from yesterDay, but you ignored me.
If you are innocent I suggest you look over my answers, and everything else that has happened, without the bias that seems to have taken hold of you. This village is too small for an innocent to waste a vote.

EDIT: X'd with Nog.

[Nogrod]

I think it would be advisable if myself, Nerwen and / or Kath took some time to check through that exchange.

I just remember Sally went on Rikae quite strongly at the early stages of yesterDay and that it aroused my attention making me suspect Sally more. It would be healthy to go back back there and check it, and not judge it by the slight parts one remembers (talking of myself primarily here).

It's pretty late here, but as the task is limited (and I have no need to wake up very early tomorrow), I might take a quick look before going to sleep.

[satansaloser2005]

Pardon me - would it be more accurate to say that in the beginning you suggested that it might be wolf-on-wolf but suspected me more, but later in the day you were basically sure of it (suspected Inzil just as much)?

Still inaccurate, but closer, I suppose. Dun rather quickly became a foregone conclusion in my mind; I could think of no reason he would do such a thing as an innocent. So yes, I put my focus elsewhere. Where did I put my focus? Where it should have gone, which is toward who I thought could be his mate. Guess what? I thought it was (and still think it could be) you. I realize I may be wrong, and that the exchanges about him waiting to vote you until later and your references to Dueling Wizards and the way you reacted to the Morsul lynch and everything else could all be coincidental, but no one else is even giving you a proper look, so by God, I'm going to do it for them.

I'm going to say this (hopefully only) one more time: Rikae is clever. She knows how to manipulate other players. Lynching a packmate so openly is a very bold, very risky maneuver, and one I can see a wolf Rikae making. It is not out of the question for her. Stop acting like she is not intelligent enough to do something like this.

If you are innocent I suggest you look over my answers, and everything else that has happened, without the bias that seems to have taken hold of you. This village is too small for an innocent to waste a vote.

Bolding mine. That is exactly why I am pushing so hard for others to suspect you. I'll not have this game end in a loss just because the innocents weren't doing their jobs.

People, please! We should not assume Rikae is innocent just because Brinn seemed to trust her. Brinn also trusted me, and I see none of you treating me in the same way you all seem to be treating Rikae. It's not the double standard that bothers me, but rather the way in which some of you have resigned yourselves to your fate if Rikae is a wolf, going so far as to say that even if she is a wolf, she won't be lynched. What sort of an attitude is that? I am sick of this village turning a blind eye to the antics of someone who is certainly intelligent enough to pull them off, and if you're not at least going to consider what I've been saying, I'm just going to let you kill me and pay the price for your ignorance. I've done my best this game, but if the village isn't going to fight back, I might as well be done.


I need a drink.

[Rikae]

Okay, so looking over it again myself, it seems to boil down to (correct me if I'm wrong) Sally thought I was suspicious because I initially suspected Morsul, then went after the people who followed me in suspecting him. She mentions that this is what Pom did on Day 1.

Fair enough. If you really can't believe that an innocent would do that, or see why I did it, fine. I have to say, though, would hate this game if it were reduced to suspecting someone at the beginning of the Day and sticking with it forever, never changing one's mind as information emerged, let alone (God forbid!) bluffing about one's suspicions to get a read on others. I mean, if you really think I had no reason to change my mind, or didn't make a serious effort to save Morsul, fine. I said I thought it looked wolfish and Inzil in particular did, but at the time no one seemed interested in what I had to say (certainly not Sally). I can't control people as much as she seems to think I can.

At any rate, earlier she mentions having thoughts in another tab, which I suppose could have been that; later she talks about not lynching me in terms of "we just give up?", which is odd since she seems to be the only one who suspects me.

She could be a wolf with a plan but on second glance, she could be an innocent with a preconceived idea and now everything is seen through that lens. But yeah, Sally, if you're basing all this on my "flip-flop" on Morsul, maybe reread that Day; if you have decided changing one's mind in werewolf is simply a no-no, well, I can only shake my head on you.

EDIT: X'd with Sally.

[Nogrod]

People, please! We should not assume Rikae is innocent just because Brinn seemed to trust her. Brinn also trusted me, and I see none of you treating me in the same way you all seem to be treating Rikae. Well there is a remarked difference between how Brinn talked about Rikae and how she talked about you - and with a seer the point (and the devil?) is in the details.

But seeing you come down to this kind of "arguments" actually makes me suspect you more. Not to talk of this...

I am sick of this village turning a blind eye to the antics of someone who is certainly intelligent enough to pull them off, and if you're not at least going to consider what I've been saying, I'm just going to let you kill me and pay the price for your ignorance. I've done my best this game, but if the village isn't going to fight back, I might as well be done.Would you self-vote next? :rolleyes:

Okay, sorry about that, but what you say does really more scream wolf that sound reasonable.

But really Sally. If you're an innocent (which I seem to doubt more and more now), you should understand that what we had from Brinn is not anything conclusive but it is something.

I mean Brinn is a clever person as well and even if she might have been a bit too overconfident that she's not going to be killed, or over-cautious with giving any hints, but still her treating of Rikae looks well enough for the time being.

I don't think none of us others thinks Rikae would not be able to pull a super-show off and to use the situation to her advantage if she were a wizard. It's just that there are more reasonable explanations so far than that.

I need a drink.I think we all need one, or two. :)


EDIT: X'd with the clever one...

[Rikae]

I realize I may be wrong, and that the exchanges about him waiting to vote you until later and your references to Dueling Wizards and the way you reacted to the Morsul lynch and everything else could all be coincidental

You are wrong. And what is this nonsense about Dueling Wizards and the way I reacted to the Morsul lynch? What are you even talking about?

I'm going to say this (hopefully only) one more time: Rikae is clever. She knows how to manipulate other players. Lynching a packmate so openly is a very bold, very risky maneuver, and one I can see a wolf Rikae making. It is not out of the question for her. Stop acting like she is not intelligent enough to do something like this.Yeah, great. I'm actually proud of catching that one wizard you keep calling "obvious", though, so apparently I'm not as clever as you believe. :rolleyes:

Bolding mine. That is exactly why I am pushing so hard for others to suspect you. I'll not have this game end in a loss just because the innocents weren't doing their jobs.

A loss for whom, I wonder.

People, please! We should not assume Rikae is innocent just because Brinn seemed to trust her. Brinn also trusted me, and I see none of you treating me in the same way you all seem to be treating Rikae. It's not the double standard that bothers me, but rather the way in which some of you have resigned yourselves to your fate if Rikae is a wolf, going so far as to say that even if she is a wolf, she won't be lynched. What sort of an attitude is that? I am sick of this village turning a blind eye to the antics of someone who is certainly intelligent enough to pull them off, and if you're not at least going to consider what I've been saying, I'm just going to let you kill me and pay the price for your ignorance. I've done my best this game, but if the village isn't going to fight back, I might as well be done.Or maybe they think it is unlikely I'm a wolf? You know, for that matter, you have gotten a pass for a while because of your Pom vote (even though Cab's wolfishness reduces that halo effect now). People get moved onto the "innocentish" list for things like being defended by a seer (and no, I don't see any parallel between what she said about you and about me; I scoured her posts for anything useful and I didn't find anything else) and ensuring that a wolf would be lynched. Of course it's no guarantee someone is innocent, but to use logic to discern who is more likely innocent is not "being resigned to your fate". This is totally ridiculous.

I bet you wish you could have killed me without worrying about a ranger save, but this is your only option now. Right?

EDIT: X'd with Nog.

[Rikae]

You know, I still don't know what Sally means about the Dueling Wizards stuff, but it is interesting:

Right before posting on Day 1, I had the vague idea "I'll joke about the rules being like those in Dueling Wizards, and baddies will be the first to comment on this".

That's where my post about Cab, Pom and Zil came from - they commented on it.

Now Sally is trying to make something out of it. If she is a wizard, that's just beautiful: I think I'll have to do things like that more often! :D

[Rikae]

In before Sally accuses me of planning it all that way!

[Nogrod]

Sally / D6

Looking back at yesterDay, what kind of catches my eye is the suddenness of Sally's attack on Rikae.

It's about 4 hours in to the Day when Rikae votes Zil. Zil snaps twenty minutes later and self-votes.

Sally comes in twenty minutes after Zil's self-vote with a few comments on some people (not even mentioning Zil or Rikae). Then about an half an hour later she posts a full attack on Rikae just out of the blue. And she makes her case on other things than what had just happened, only coming to the Rikae -Zil exchange in the end of her post speculating that if they both could be wolves...

She comes back much later (after a night's sleep) and in a more conciliatory tone (understandable whatever her role), but seems to underline the possibility that if Zil is a wolf then Rikae might be one too just bussing her mate. Or that we should take what Brinn said about Rikae with a pinch of salt - speculating with the different possibilities why she might have said what she said about Rikae.

Then she says she will be back shortish and look for all, especially Zil only to come back fifty minutes before the DL saying she's still on D3, and finally posting a pretty random-looking collection of points (mostly on the first Days) 7 minutes before the DL - deciding that Zil is evil (at that point Zil had two votes and Sally herself had one).

What? Thinking Zil must be a Wizard on the basis of the first Days (last post she refers to is #383 while her own post is #660)? And then adding that Rikae could be his packmate...


This could fit a Wizard trying her best when things start to roll the wrong way.


EDIT: X'd with Rikae X2

[satansaloser2005]

Nog, there's a marked difference in that nothing. I understand how you've come to the conclusions you've come to, I really do, but you're putting too much meaning into Brinn's actions just as much as Rikae accuses me of doing with hers. Seers can be mistaken in their opinions just like the rest of us. I trust Nerwen right now more than the lot of you put together, but that doesn't mean I know her role. Why? Because the only gifted left alive is the ranger, and the only information they have is from the first Night's kill. Thus, we're all in the same boat: none of us have any concrete information.

I understand giving her some benefit of the doubt. I understand why you think she might have (repeat, might have) been dreamt by the seer. What I don't understand is why you won't use your brain and look at what she's done rather than what others have said about her. If you do a careful, thorough reading of her posts and you still think she's innocent, then fine, but stop acting like it's a foregone conclusion.

Would you self-vote next? :rolleyes:

Obviously not. I said I'd give up, not do the wizard's job for them.

Oh, and here's Rikae herself. Lovely.

And what is this nonsense about Dueling Wizards and the way I reacted to the Morsul lynch? What are you even talking about?

Here's what you're going to do. You're going to go back through the thread, especially the last two Days. You're going to see my posts. You're going to actually read them. Then you're going to come back and realize you know the answer to that question.

Actually, I didn't make the Dueling Wizards thing clear in my post yesterDay, which is my own fault, and thus I shall explain now.

I don't think you're actually referencing the game itself. I think you're gloating about wolf-on-wolf tactics (dueling, after all, and the wolves in this game being called wizards). I think you not only were willing to resort to bussing your packmates, but happy to do so, possibly even planning to do so, because you are clever enough to realize that sort of thing works. I think the "I always suspect him, simple as that" and Dun's "++Rik.... Not yet" were clever but telling comments. I think you went for him (and thus away from Morsul) the Day before yesterDay because you wanted a solid setup for sacrificing Dun if it became necessary, which I think it did when you saw that Cab had died. I think you needed that little bit of extra leverage to get into the position you're in toDay, which is that of a trusted innocent. I think you've put on quite a show, and I think it's brilliant, but I think you need to die.

The Morsul bit is here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680778&postcount=611).

....To use logic to discern who is more likely innocent is not "being resigned to your fate". This is totally ridiculous.

Oh, so you didn't read this post either.

What I said- if Rikae is a wolf after all, we've aleady lost, because there's no way she's going to be lynched now unless she climbs the gallows and sticks her head in the noose. Or someone manages to make a truly damning case on her. Short of that, I think we just have to assume she's innocent now.

"We've already lost," she says. "We just have to assume," she says. We don't have to do anything, which is why I think I'm getting so upset about all of this. There's no possibility for a case against you because people have already decided you've been dreamt by the seer. You can do anything you want, short of flat out saying you're a wolf, and the rest of the village will bat their flipping eyelashes and say, "Well, Brinn spoke nicely of her, and she hasn't been that bad, so we can't lynch her."


I know I'm getting rude about this, but I've seen wolves get away with being "seer-dreamt" before, and I have no intention of it happening again.


I need to be off of here for a while. I'm going to look at the rest of you again, just in case the wizard isn't Rikae, but I don't know when I'll be back (though knowing me, I won't be able to stay away for too long, because this is really, really starting to bother me).


x'd since the post of Rikae's I quoted

[Nogrod]

Going to bed now.

Looking forwards to some input by Nerwen and espacially Kath.


EDIT:X'd with Sally

[satansaloser2005]

What? Thinking Zil must be a Wizard on the basis of the first Days (last post she refers to is #383 while her own post is #660)? And then adding that Rikae could be his packmate...

I had read through the entire thread, but had only made notes on the first three Days or so. Again, I was unexpectedly handed a lot of work and obviously had to attend to that before Werewolf. I sincerely apologize for not being able to share more, but I had no choice.


x'd with Nog. Good night, dear. Sleep well. :)

[Nogrod]

I understand giving her some benefit of the doubt. I understand why you think she might have (repeat, might have) been dreamt by the seer. What I don't understand is why you won't use your brain and look at what she's done rather than what others have said about her. If you do a careful, thorough reading of her posts and you still think she's innocent, then fine, but stop acting like it's a foregone conclusion.I don't think it is a foregone conclusion. Anything but.

And I could even see what you mean by telling us to read her posts. I agree she doesn't make it easy to believe in her innocence! :rolleyes:

But Brinn sorting her out on D1 as the innocent one and then coming strongly to defend her on D3 when she was suspected by her self-vote do speak louder than other considerations right now.

If we end up lynching you Sally and you turn out innocent (your innocence being I think the least probable scenario at the moment), then it will be sure those alive toMorrow need to seriously reconsider Rikae's role.

Well everyone's role...

[Rikae]

Here's what you're going to do. You're going to go back through the thread, especially the last two Days. You're going to see my posts. You're going to actually read them. Then you're going to come back and realize you know the answer to that question.

Well, that was incredibly snotty, and no. I don't. You simply mentioned it, as though it meant something. I'm actually considering not reading any more of your posts at all now, though. I don't appreciate being given orders like I'm a mentally challenged child.

I don't think you're actually referencing the game itself. I think you're gloating about wolf-on-wolf tactics (dueling, after all, and the wolves in this game being called wizards). I think you not only were willing to resort to bussing your packmates, but happy to do so, possibly even planning to do so, because you are clever enough to realize that sort of thing works. Um, wait, so you think I'm so clever, I hinted about what I was supposedly planning on doing as a baddie? Very clever. Thanks so much for that great compliment.

I think the "I always suspect him, simple as that" and Dun's "++Rik.... Not yet" were clever but telling comments. I think you went for him (and thus away from Morsul) the Day before yesterDay because you wanted a solid setup for sacrificing Dun if it became necessary, which I think it did when you saw that Cab had died. I think you needed that little bit of extra leverage to get into the position you're in toDay, which is that of a trusted innocent. I think you've put on quite a show, and I think it's brilliant, but I think you need to die.Just vote me and be done with it: you apparently aren't going to consider any other possibility.

Oh, so you didn't read this post either.I read all of the posts. Unfortunately.

"We've already lost," she says. "We just have to assume," she says. We don't have to do anything, which is why I think I'm getting so upset about all of this.IF I'm a wolf, she says. But apparently you missed the bit where she doesn't think I am. You think I am: great. Go on and vote for me. Do your best to get everyone else to. I'm done talking to you, though.

[satansaloser2005]

Well, that was incredibly snotty, and no. I don't. You simply mentioned it, as though it meant something. I'm actually considering not reading any more of your posts at all now, though. I don't appreciate being given orders like I'm a mentally challenged child.

I didn't simply mention it. It's quite a bit of the post, actually. (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680778&postcount=611) But again, I'll explain. You were set to lynch Morsul. You said so yourself. Others started voting for him, you cried setup, and then you backed off like crazy. The next Day, you acted as though you knew he'd be innocent. I know you said you changed your mind. Fair enough, but also convenient. You prepared for the lynch, but you had no blood on your hands because you didn't actually vote for him. What a delicious place for you to be in.

It's not my fault you seem to have blatantly chosen to ignore that post, belittle it, in fact, and then be rude to me afterward. I don't appreciate you saying I'm "terribly ridiculous" or that you're going to shake your head at me. It's rude. It's uncalled for. So yes, I've snapped, but only because you're being incredibly frustrating and, after I decided to leave you alone earlier in the game because I didn't want to upset you, this is the thanks I get. Gee, thanks a lot. What would you prefer? Should I have said something earlier on and had you rage quit? Would that have been better? It certainly wasn't my desire, but at this point, I'm regretting not saying anything sooner.


I'm off here for the night. I'm getting too angry and I really have better things to do.

[Rikae]

And that has what do do with dueling wizards?

No, you didn't explain your (absurd) dueling wizards theory until now, or if you did I somehow completely missed it.

Bah. I told myself I'd get out of this discussion.

If you aren't evil, the real wolf is laughing in the shadows now.


after I decided to leave you alone earlier in the game because I didn't want to upset you, this is the thanks I get. Gee, thanks a lot. What would you prefer? Should I have said something earlier on and had you rage quit? Would that have been better?

What? Really? Is that what you think of me?

Wow, and I thought you were insulting before.

I don't even care what your role is anymore.

++Sally

[Rikae]

Incidentally, if I ever think about signing up for one of these games, someone please remind me that I don't want to play them anymore.

[Rikae]

I don't appreciate you saying I'm "terribly ridiculous" or that you're going to shake your head at me. It's rude.

Not "you are ridiculous". Your point. Your idea (if that's what it was). But I'm not surprised you didn't understand that. Fits the pattern.

[satansaloser2005]

What? Really? Is that what you think of me?

You'd self-voted, you had RL things going on (if I didn't already say it, my condolences, by the way), and things were already heated enough (mostly between you and Nerwen) without me getting involved and yammering on about how I thought you might be a wolf too (though I'll admit I was more focused on Morsul and Gil at the time, so leaving you alone wasn't much of a chore). I hadn't entirely made up my mind, and I didn't want to make things worse, so I moved on. So is that what I think of you? Is what I think of you that I didn't want to make your day even worse when I had better candidates to go for? Is what I think of you that I actually care more about your feelings than the game? Yeah. That's what I think of you. So if you're going to get even more upset because I "suddenly" suspected you, that's what's going to happen, and if it gets me lynched, I'll be upset, but I won't regret it.

Rikae seems like the stressed and overreacting innocent Rikae I've seen in the past. Leave her alone, at least for toDay. I'm not touching the other side of that show either. Nerwen is stressed out, and I'm going to let these shenanigans be bygones and move on. I think the entire thing has been blown out of proportion. We can review it toMorrow when everyone has calmed down and go from there.

As for my "sudden" suspicion, I'll remind everyone of Sally's participation during the Days in question.

The Day Gil was lynched: I gave Rikae a pass for the Day because of everything that was going on (as quoted above).

The Day Morsul was lynched: I wasn't even around. The few posts I made were from my iPad without even having read the thread. I thought I'd be able to read through and do more posting when I got home, but it wasn't possible; for anybody who cares, we had quite a bit of bad weather and I didn't make it home until after deadline.

The Day Dun was lynched: Well, we know that already. I went for Rikae right off (after making one post reflecting briefly on the Night's events) and have been doing so ever since.

When was I supposed to share my suspicions between Gil's lynch and Dun's self-vote? Really, when? :(

Bah. I really need to get away from this. Curse me for needing to check my e-mail and being unable to avoid the Downs. Then again, this (which I'd missed before, whoops) makes me feel a bit better.

I don't think it is a foregone conclusion. Anything but.

And I could even see what you mean by telling us to read her posts. I agree she doesn't make it easy to believe in her innocence!

At least I'm not crazy. Granted, it's coming from my next top suspect (given my feelings at the end of yesterDay anyway), but at this point I'll take whatever I can get. Thank you, Nog. Seriously, regardless of anybody's role, thank you for at least acknowledging that something's shifty there. I appreciate it, and it helps a lot.


I'm going to go to bed, I'm going to stop thinking about Werewolf, and I'm going to get some sleep. When I wake up in the morning, I will decide how I feel about the other three players in the game. You'll hear from me again then.


x'd with Rikae

[Rikae]

No, you're not crazy. I suppose your reasons to suspect me are as good as any of the reasons I suspected anyone, and they just look absurd to me because I know they're false. In fact, they're very similar to some of the stuff I said about Inzil (about things possibly being wolfish sarcasm/joking).

I'm probably just being hypocritical here, both with the rudeness (not realizing how bad the stuff I say sounds) and with the suspicion.

I mean, two people think I'm suspicious = I know at least one of them is telling the truth!

Not saying I think anybody is more or less evil on that basis, just that I realize my perspective might seem to make more sense to me than it really does.

I still think, and I don't want to be insulting about this, but anyone who is in the situation I was in (changing your mind but not influencing anyone else) could be accused of being a wolf avoiding participation in a bandwagon. I would hope the details would be of some importance. I mean, for a wolf to come out all gung-ho with a blatant accusation, and then just as blatantly accuse the people who follow it, is anything but subtle and safe! I think if I had wanted to influence a lynch without getting my hands dirty, I would have gone about it in a less memorable fashion!

But yeah, that's what I say and you can believe it or not.

[Rikae]

That last line had the wrong tone. I mean, that's what I say and people can always disbelieve it; nothing I can do about that.

[Nerwen]

Just to lighten the atmosphere, I wish to say that I really found this little aside aside quite amusing:
...Rikae's flip flop (though not in the style of either of our wonderful mods)...

[Nerwen]

About yesterDay: what I'm thinking is that Zil and his comrades, McCaber and The Unknown Wolf might have thought they were likely to lose him soon, and might even have come up with a plan to bus him. But– as I said here (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680792&postcount=622), McCaber's death would have been a nasty shock to them, and obviously changes the dynamic quite considerably. So it's a question of whether they would have stuck to such a plan after that. Zil, at least, gives me quite the impression of someone who would have preferred to stay alive– I think the motivation behind his self-vote was that "it worked for Rikae", rather than that he was truly resigned to being lynched.

[Nerwen]

Also, about Rikae:

Thing is, I don't, and never did, agree with the consensus that Rikae's self-vote and loss of temper "screamed innocent". I have seen her act just like that as an innocent, and I've seen her act just like that as a wolf. Not that I mean she would fake it, but, you know, wolves can get angry and frustrated too. (Besides, two of those strongest in pushing that line were Zil and McCaber.)

On the other hand, this "flip-flopping" business on Morsul the Day before yesterDay, that Sally sets so much store by– no, I really don't see anything in that. Sometimes one sees a player as guilty early in the piece... and then comes back towards the end of the Day and finds that *everyone's* for lynching that person– and wonders why the calvary hasn't ridden to the rescue.

[Nerwen]

Having read through yesterDay, I must say things don't look good for Sally. Her scorching attack on Rikae does indeed look as if she's trying to provide an alternative target, or at least a distraction. Later, after other players concur in finding Zil suspicious, she starts heavily pushing the notion that Rikae and Zil are packmates. And at all times her focus is on Rikae rather than Zil– even though he was the main issue of the Day, Sally barely mentions him except to try and connect him with Rikae.

Really, on the face of it, it seems as if there should be no question about whom to lynch toDay.

And yet– I am worried that maybe things are not as they seem. Just as I have seen a guilty Rikae act just like a "frustrated innocent", I have seen an innocent Sally act much like this. Also– would a Sallywolf fasten on Rikae? I'd say anyone else would have made an easier target at that point.

I'm just saying, it's entirely possible they're both innocent, and the real wolf is maybe Little Miss Submarine.

[Nerwen]

It could be Nog, too. The McCaber revelation may make him look better, but it doesn't actually clear him, since it would have been a matter of which fellow to sacrifice. Still, if it were me I'd have tried to save the more experienced wolf, i.e. McCaber.

[Kath]

Nog! Never have I been so insulted! Except I really have been no use and I am sorry. I'm here for a little now and then will be here for the last few hours before deadline.

Kath, Nerwen, Rikae, Nog and sally left. One is a wolf, one is the ranger, three innocent.

Is it worth the Ranger revealing toDay? Say if sally was the Ranger and revealed, that leaves us with 4 unknowns rather than 5. Bad luck we lynch an innocent we're down to 1 wolf and 3 innocents. Ranger gets Night killed we're down to 1 wolf and 2 innocents and have to get it right toMorrow.

The maths is still the same even without the reveal but it would give a bit of a rallying point. I'm just flat out fed up of coming to read the thread and wanting to leave because I'm uncomfortable with these horrible exchanges. That's not werewolf, that's personal. To have a 'known' innocent (assuming we trust the reveal or there's not a counter reveal or a triple, double bluff reveal!!) would be nice!

On to more thread-based topics. I do still suspect sally but whether innocent or guilty I can understand her frustration with the easy ride Rikae seems to be getting. That said, I would like some evidence for sally's assertion that 'Brinn trusted me'. We saw the Rikae evidence but was there actually any for sally?

Nerwen is also right about Rikae. I have seen her behave this way as many times guilty as innocent. Our own reading of Brinn's dreams could well be wrong. However, that's all we have. Maybe it's a mass delusion but I'm with Nerwen on having to hope it's not.

Nog - now for as much as he says he has no read on me I have to say I feel the same about him. Will definitely have a proper look at him later.

My POV just based on read through not actually analysing anyone:
Gut says sally.
Annoyance says Rikae.
Unknown-entity-fear says Nog.
Appear to feel fine about Nerwen.

[Nogrod]

On the other hand, this "flip-flopping" business on Morsul the Day before yesterDay, that Sally sets so much store by– no, I really don't see anything in that.I agree. Let's also remember it was Morsul we are talking about: hardly someone you'd have to push subtly or very openly to make other people think he might be suspicious...

With players like Gil and Morsul suspicion comes quite naturally because of the way they play. One can agree with a suspicion or even point it out, but can also jump from frustration if most people take the "easy way" bandwagoning a lynch on that kind of players.

[Nogrod]

Nog! Never have I been so insulted! Except I really have been no use and I am sorry.Oh, please Kath, don't you start that as well... :( :confused:

Is it worth the Ranger revealing toDay? Say if sally was the Ranger and revealed, that leaves us with 4 unknowns rather than 5. Bad luck we lynch an innocent we're down to 1 wolf and 3 innocents. Ranger gets Night killed we're down to 1 wolf and 2 innocents and have to get it right toMorrow.It's a complicated issue and naturally should be left to the ranger to decide.

Yes the ranger coming forwards would give us one innocent toDay - and quite for certain as the Wizard would probably not try to counter-reveal as we'd win then either toDay or toMorrow knowing another innocent wouldn't fake.

But it has a downside which is that the ranger would be dead toMorrow and couldn't try to save anyone the coming Night.

Sure there is at least one wild plot we could try to pull out with this revealment-stuff but I'm afraid it is too risky and could only confuse us.

[Nerwen]

Is it worth the Ranger revealing toDay? Say if sally was the Ranger and revealed, that leaves us with 4 unknowns rather than 5. Bad luck we lynch an innocent we're down to 1 wolf and 3 innocents. Ranger gets Night killed we're down to 1 wolf and 2 innocents and have to get it right toMorrow.
I don't see the point of this, unless the Ranger is actually in danger of being lynched. Unless he or she can give us a second innocent, i.e. the person protected Night One is still alive. Not sure how likely that is, though– in fact, I suspect that might have been Volo.

[Nerwen]

Okay. I just have to vote now. I've delayed it as long as I could– and it's unlikely I'll be back again toDay.

I just can't sort out the Sally-Rikae business. It's either two innocents having a row or a wolf having a fight with an innocent– that much is certain, but at the moment I'm just not sure which.

++Kath

for possibly voting to help Zil yesterDay and for possibly trying to draw out the Ranger just then. Note that I said "possibly". That's all it is. I certainly don't claim I could make any proper case on her.

I'm sorry I can't be more help toDay. Good luck, anyway.

[Rikae]

Also, about Rikae:

Thing is, I don't, and never did, agree with the consensus that Rikae's self-vote and loss of temper "screamed innocent". I have seen her act just like that as an innocent, and I've seen her act just like that as a wolf. Not that I mean she would fake it, but, you know, wolves can get angry and frustrated too. (Besides, two of those strongest in pushing that line were Zil and McCaber.)

I'm actually glad someone recognizes this. Ever since that game where I was a wolf and got mad at people going after an innocent Mac, people have been saying I'm so tricksy and false and everything, when I was actually genuinely mad.
The same things often annoy me regardless of my role (people saying things that seem simplistic, don't make sense to me, or seem to take werewolf itself in a direction I don't appreciate). Besides, I'm not proud of my temper and wouldn't want to benefit from it in any way.

About Kath: well, I was kind of hoping for a ranger reveal and a known innocent myself, so I can't suspect her on that basis. A vote for her feels like a shot in the dark.

Nerwen and Nog are both ringing alarm bells and either one could have been my top suspect in a different group. The wolves have done a good job of leaving people alive who are difficult to read and trust (myself included).

On that note, (to Sally in particular), if Brinn did dream of me on Night 1 she almost certainly did so because I'm supposedly so hard to read/always suspicious or whatever my reputation is, in which case it would be a shame to throw away the one bit of useful information our seer managed to give us. I mean, I suppose the wolves left me alive on the assumption I could still talk my neck into a noose, or at least lead people astray. I might be doing just that: I wish there were retractions, because I wanted to vote thoughtfully toDay, not impulsively!

About Nog and Nerwen: the former is playing very carefully, and doesn't really seem to be making that much effort to find wizards. From an innocent Nog I'm used to seeing wild schemes and trickery, rants about submarines, etc.
Nerwen doesn't seem quite right either; in this case, it's all the talk of what the wolves are thinking, and vehemence about what that might be and why wolves do this or that. No, that's not always suspicious, but if there is anything a wolf might get genuinely annoyed at, it is being suspected for the wrong reasons! Perhaps she speaks the truth about gunning for the seer? Didn't Volo also suspect her? Perhaps their plan was "kill Volo and try to pass off the reason as Rikae rather than Nerwen"? I'll have to go back and look at Volo's posts to see if this makes sense, because right now I just remember Nog mentioning Nerwen as a possibility.

And, on the other hand, the fact that Sally got that upset about having her theories dismissed suggests those theories are honestly held.

No, I'm really not very sure about my vote anymore at all. Yes, I could do that as a wolf: pretend to make a vote in anger and then regret it, in order to absolve myself of responsibility and set up my suspicions for the next day. I could, but it would be extremely risky when I'm already under fire for "flip-flopping", and it would also border on unethical by my standards (like I said, I'm not proud of my temper and don't want to benefit from it. I start every game hoping to play it cool, regardless of my role, and I fail every time. :()

[Nogrod]

Nerwen's vote on Kath was a welcome reminder to me that this is not over yet - even if I tend to suspect Sally a bit more than anyone else at the time (although puzzled with her freaking out - you know Rikae you have a talent in drawing that behaviour on others? :rolleyes:) and am afraid that if we don't lynch her toDay we'll be facing a real dilemma toMorrow unless we get the last Wizard (other than Sally, that is) toDay.

Nerwen's vote both reminds me of the possibility that she is the last Wizard as it speaks volumes on behalf of her innocence! I'm leaning towards the latter though as it seems the last Wizard would not like to appear controversial at this point - and argumentwise I'd say Sally looks the clear favourite to be the lynchee. So going againts that would be unnecessary for the Wizard.

Btw. the point I had between the relation of Volo's death and Nerwen's innocence was and is, shortly made, the following: Volo made those seer-remarks early on D1 (in his first post) and Nerwen was one among the few he suspected. On the next Day he dropped his suspicions on her - and even went on to say this (bolding mine): I've done quite a lot of rethinking about my attitude towards her yesterday, since it bugged me that I ended up voting her while not too sure about her guilt, the other candidates felt less suspicious. I admit, I have a hard time getting a read on her, but I feel like I've lost my case.So both pointing to doing something yesterday aka. by Night + saying he feels he's lost his case against her.

Now if Nerwen is an innocent - which the Wizards would know - that would look pretty seerish. And well, Volo is dead after that.

Also, while I agree on the substance of what you say Rikae about the possibility that Brinn wished to check you for the reasons you state, I'm kind of uneasy with the fact that you think it important to actually state them yourself at this point.

Tricksy this is...

[satansaloser2005]

Hello, all. I have returned, and am currently working on a more thorough (hopefully) analysis of Kath in another tab. I will be around for the rest of the Day with a large glass of chocolate milk, My Little Pony, and fuzzy blankets. Ahhhh. Wonderful.

[Rikae]

Of course it's important to mention it, Nog. If Sally is innocent we can't afford to have an innocent vote wasted on me at this point in the game.

I'm really getting tired of everyone pointing out how awful a person I am. I'm not going to say any more about it, but I'm getting tired of it. I know people dislike me, and I know they have good reason to, but can we just drop it and finish the game, please?

[Nogrod]

That said, here's what I think now.


Sally - It's firstly and foremostly her sudden attack on Rikae yesterDay after Zil got majorly suspected - and the small things matter; she seemed to have more or less concentrated on Rikae and not paying too much attention to the possibility that Zil could be the Wizard. Surely an innocent had also tried to think about that possibility, but if you have a mission to accomplish that kind of things are easily forgotten.

That point I need to check back though before voting as even if that is how I remember it went yesterDay and someone (Rikae?) commented on it toDay - I have to read it myself to be sure I'm not being blindly walked by someone (especially Rikae if it was her) here.


Rikae - Even if her temper and self-votes - and other early votes - do not make it any easier to trust her, I'm still leaning on her being our safest bet for an innocent just because of what Brinn said and how she defended her vehemently in the tightest spot. And while saying that I'm very much aware I could be wrong here.

I'd not be happy to see her lynched toDay, but if we don't get a wizard toDay, I'd say toMorrow she should be as liable to be lynched as anyone. So no eternal vetoes for her, but yet I think we have better candidates toDay.


Nerwen - Well I wrote about why I think her more likely innocent than not on my post above. What scares the living daylights from me is that at the same time I know her being one of the smartest and most coherent players there are - and it's hard if not impossible to catch her lupine-version from a slip or a blunder as she just doesn't seem to make them.


Kath - I'm really torn with her, the basic point being what I made earlier, that she is out of time and plays reasonably. The problem being, that both a troll and a wizard, if being intelligent and facing the situation Kath has, could have done the same thing.


EDIT: X'd with Sally & Rikae

[Nogrod]

I'm really getting tired of everyone pointing out how awful a person I am. I'm not going to say any more about it, but I'm getting tired of it. I know people dislike me, and I know they have good reason to, but can we just drop it and finish the game, please?I love you Rikae. Remember that. And I think that at least all of us who know you love you - with all your temper.

But yes, let's get this game packed, preferably toDay.


And everyone: let's play civil for the rest of the game.

[satansaloser2005]

"If ever oh ever a wiz there was the wizard of Oz is one because; because, because, because, becaauuuuusssee ..."

Wait, wait, wait, wrong kind of wizard right? I mean I haven't seen any green city round here, and no hot air balloons either. Maybe that clears Green of being an evil wizard type. Or maybe that's what she wants us to think and she's really green as ... as ... a really green evil thing. Like spinach.

Eurgh. Spinach. Just thinking of that has me feeling sick. I'm out of here.

This was a basis of suspicion for some people. I can see it, and if Kath were a bold wolf, this could have been an overt attempt to let the cobbler know who's boss, but honestly, given how early it was, and how she responded to others' reactions to it, I think it was just random. There wasn't much to go on at the time, and Kath does enjoy the wacky, so I think this was just silliness. Innocent or wizard silliness, I don't know, but I really don't think anything was meant by it.

Had found myself worrying about Volo. There seemed to be a lot of looking at what everyone else had done and not giving much away. Then suddenly he comes out with big bold statements which made me feel a lot better about him.

Am still worried about Volo having re-read my thoughts. Don't like that he was suspicious of me for possibly deliberately failing to respond to a comment on me being Cobbler-ish. Also he did spend nearly the whole Day not giving strong opinions on anything. Will see if looking at toDay changes my mind on that.

I think these two bits about Volo are Kath legitimately not being able to make up her mind. In the former, she says she worries about him, then that some of his posts make her feel better, but in the latter she goes back to being worried.

The point I would like to make here, however, is that she doesn't call him suspicious. She doesn't say he might be a wizard. She says she worries about him. If we go back to the theory (which I hold at least a little stock in) that Volo was killed because the wizards thought he might be the clever troll, it's entirely possible Kath could have picked up on that and been making a note there, either for her own benefit or for that of her guild mates. Speaking of which....

Quick note having read the narration - I don't think it's a surprise Volo was killed. When I was posting about him yesterDay I kept having freak-outs that his weird behaviour could be Seerish. Least we got lucky with him being the Cobbler rather than the actual Seer!

She even says she thought he could have been the seer. So, you know, not good.

Question about the Rikae debacle: has she actually quit? 'Cause if she has we're down another player assuming Bane is modkilled toDay. And if she has quit when will her death occur. ToNight? ToMorrow's end of Day? Having dead weight hanging round without knowing the role will be irritating for trying to work out roles. How many wizards are we after, if the Seer (assuming she isn't it) is lynched/killed are there Gifted's left to be aware of etc.

Kath is asking questions here I'm not entirely comfortable with. I understand the desire to know what's going on, but if Rikae is innocent, I could see this as a Kath jumping up and down to see who all will be struck down without effort.

In fact, the fact that she specifically said, "Are there gifteds left to be aware of, etc." really looks quite bad. After all, who would be the most interested to see if the gifteds are dead? The wolves.

I am a weeny bit confused. sally posts this, stating she thinks Gil is unlikely to have been dreamed a wolf as Seer-Brinn would have pushed much harder for the lynch had she dreamed him.

But there's no explanatin of how Gil is suspicious in a way other than being a potential dreamed wolf. sally then votes Gil with no further explanation than 'you're suspicious'.

I don't like it.

This was explained by Nerwen and possibly others. I have no problem with Kath finding that strange, as I know she's been pressed for time. I could see an evil Kath using this to try to spin people against me, but I could just as easily see an innocent Kath missing something and acting on inaccurate information. This could really go either way, so....nothing here, I guess?

Gil and Nogrod would be my top choices. I'd rather not vote Morsul, but if it came between him and Rikae, I would choose Morsul.I would say it is the 'if it came between him and Rikae' bit that's important. She is making a very clear statement that she won't vote Rikae. I'd say she was the dream there.

I won't completely dismiss Kath's point here. Yes, Brinn seemed to trust Rikae more than Morsul, but let's add some context to her (Brinn's) statement. We all know how Morsul was acting. Between Morsul and Rikae, on any given Day, Morsul is probably going to be acting more suspicious. Again, I'm not denying the fact that Brinn could have dreamt Rikae, but she also could have expressed this preference because of their actions or because she didn't have a clue and flipped a coin or simply because she enjoys playing with Rikae. Between Rikae and Morsul, she preferred to lynch Morsul, but that was also a choice between Rikae and Morsul, so let's not forget that. And I swear, that's all I'm saying on that matter.

She then brings up the thing about me and Gil again, which at this point no longer seems like a Kath who didn't know any better, but rather a Kath with an agenda.

The next Day(s) she goes after me and has been consistent more or less ever since. Okay, fair enough, I suppose, but....you know you misunderstood the whole Gil thing, right?

Is it worth the Ranger revealing toDay? Say if sally was the Ranger and revealed, that leaves us with 4 unknowns rather than 5. Bad luck we lynch an innocent we're down to 1 wolf and 3 innocents. Ranger gets Night killed we're down to 1 wolf and 2 innocents and have to get it right toMorrow.

The maths is still the same even without the reveal but it would give a bit of a rallying point. I'm just flat out fed up of coming to read the thread and wanting to leave because I'm uncomfortable with these horrible exchanges. That's not werewolf, that's personal. To have a 'known' innocent (assuming we trust the reveal or there's not a counter reveal or a triple, double bluff reveal!!) would be nice!

I'm sorry, but no. As Nerwen said, I don't like the push for the ranger to reveal; at this point, the only thing it's going to do is get them killed.

I would like some evidence for sally's assertion that 'Brinn trusted me'. We saw the Rikae evidence but was there actually any for sally?

Not much, to be honest. I mostly used myself to make a point. Here is what Brinn had to say on me.

I don't like all of Sally's bantering, but then again it is Sally.

Sally: Voted for Pom. Most of her posts are banter, which isn't helpful. But her late vote for Pom makes me inclined to think she's innocent.

Looking Innocentish
Sally
Rikae
Copper
Greenie
Shasta

Sally: I suppose there's always the possibility she's a very sneaky wizard who threw her mate under the bus, but I see no reason to suspect her.

So, you know, Brinn never suspected me either, which is the point I was trying to make earlier. It doesn't mean she dreamt me though, just that she trusted me (which again, is the point I was trying to make earlier, blah blah).

Nerwen is also right about Rikae. I have seen her behave this way as many times guilty as innocent. Our own reading of Brinn's dreams could well be wrong. However, that's all we have. Maybe it's a mass delusion but I'm with Nerwen on having to hope it's not.

Nog - now for as much as he says he has no read on me I have to say I feel the same about him. Will definitely have a proper look at him later.

Kath has spent much of the game having no read on people. I'm not implying she's done it intentionally -I honestly believe she's been busy- but it's also a convenient place for a wolf to hide.


Conclusion: Suspecting someone (who suspected her, by the way) of being a seer and having that person conveniently die, continuing with a flawed logic even after it was explained to her, being pretty vague on everyone but the person she's been voting, suggesting the ranger reveal toDay, saying she might vote Rikae just out of annoyance....yeah, I'm not so sure now the wizard couldn't be Kath.

You know, I think maybe you're all evil. :confused: :p

[Kath]

Oh bless you Nog I was kidding! I am not the least bit offended. Will remember to put a smiley next time. :)

Now, it has taken me 40 minutes to get to a posting screen for this thread. For that reason I am going to vote now because there is no guarantee that I will actually be able to post again.

Having read through since I left Nog's post about Nerwen has made me feel much better about him. I think trying to push another player as innocent would be an odd thing for a wolf to do. I am going to trust Brinn and assume Rikae is innocent.

That leaves me with Nerwen and sally. Now, Nog's point on Nerwen regarding Volo is a very interesting one and tallies with my feeling that Nerwen probably is innocent.

For good or ill I'm sticking with:

++sally

Fingers crossed we finish toDay so my stupid issues stop affecting the game!

[Rikae]

Aw, thanks Nog. :)

she doesn't call him suspicious. She doesn't say he might be a wizard. She says she worries about him.

and


the fact that she specifically said, "Are there gifteds left to be aware of, etc." really looks quite bad

Yeah, it really does. I didn't notice Volo's comments about Kath and her reaction to it, but it could very well be that her "worry" was about a seer.

Especially since she later says he looked like a seer to her! I found that comment a bit odd at the time because I see no reason why he should have looked seerish, but in light of her "worried" remark and possible wizardry, it makes sense.

EDIT: X'd with Kath.

[satansaloser2005]

Entirely too quick summation of a few of my problems with Nog, in case I don't have time to do a longer one:

The Day Oz died, a wizard Nog would have been in an excellent position (with the targets being Morsul, Volo, and Oz). Thus, his willingness to wait for me (as it were) could have been an innocent wanting to unite or a baddie waiting to see where the wind was going to blow. His "This turns out interesting indeed!!!" still rubs me the wrong way.

YesterDay toward the end, he actually seemed to be considering voting for someone other than Dun, offering the possibility of me and Nerwen as a wolf pair and wanting to act upon that. Why do this at so late an hour?

And then toDay, after saying for a while that Rikae couldn't be guilty, he admits that her behavior has in fact been suspicious. I'm not sure if it's just an attempt to make me feel better, but....I don't know, man, this whole situation's gone nuts, so I'm going to ignore that for the moment and look at it again later.

We have another hour. I'll try to look at Nog more closely, but I have other things to do as well, so it'll probably not be all that long. I won't get to Nerwen, I believe, but I stick to my opinion of her. My gut is never right (and thus never wrong) with Nerwen. Besides, she won't be back, so if she happens to be the ranger, she'd have no opportunity to defend herself.

x'd since my last

[satansaloser2005]

Oh, and this!

I love you Rikae. Remember that. And I think that at least all of us who know you love you - with all your temper.

Ditto. *snuggles Rikae and Nog*

[satansaloser2005]

Well, obviously now I have no choice.

++Kath

Only one of us is a wolf, and I know it isn't me.

Nog, darling, it's up to you now. Please don't be evil, and please make the right decision.

[satansaloser2005]

....Guys? *whimpers*

[Nogrod]

Sorry to say this Sally but your analysis on Kath looks more like a brave effort than a convincing case... :) Well, it is plausible, but I'm not convinced it's probableQuick note having read the narration - I don't think it's a surprise Volo was killed. When I was posting about him yesterDay I kept having freak-outs that his weird behaviour could be Seerish. Least we got lucky with him being the Cobbler rather than the actual Seer!She even says she thought he could have been the seer. So, you know, not good.But this comment of yours Sally begs the question, why would she - if she was a Wizard - would be pointing out at it?

Also the thing about Kath asking has Rikae quit, who's left etc. looks a bit weird to be honest, but once again, it would be even weirder if the questionner was a wizard...

And I do disagree with the idea she was "pushing for" the ranger to reveal. Looking at the people left playing it seems clear to me it would be nonsensical to think that "if I just suggest the ranger to do something s/he'll be pushed to do it". Like Nerwen or myself (or Rikae or you Sally) would suddenly do as she asks, and not have thought of that already before, or wished to make up your own mind about that.

And really Sally, you can't honestly compare what Brinn said about you to what she said about Rikae...


So with all the love

++ Sally

You seem to be the most logical choice.

And thumbs up the game ends in twenty minutes.

[satansaloser2005]

Well, bother.

I suppose I could tell you now that you've killed the ranger....

[Nogrod]

Nog, darling, it's up to you now. Please don't be evil, and please make the right decision.I hope I have lived up to these expectations.


EDIT: X'd with Sally

[Nogrod]

What?!

I mean there is no going back now with no retractions...

So why didn't you tell us earlier? I mean ten minutes earlier would have been enough... :(

[satansaloser2005]

Well, bother.

I suppose I could tell you now that you've killed the ranger....

....But I won't, because it's not true.

[Nogrod]

++Kath

Only one of us is a wolf, and I know it isn't me. And wait a minute... what's that supposed to mean? I mean if you're the ranger you can't possibly know one of you is a wolf?

Now what is this mind-game?


EDIT: X'd with Sally again... :)

[Nogrod]

Oh Sally... :)

[satansaloser2005]

Oh Sally... :)

I love you? :Merisu:

[Nogrod]

Yes I do love you.

For a moment you kind of made my heart flip... :)

[Rikae]

Oh, and this!



Ditto. *snuggles Rikae and Nog*

Thanks! :)

...But I won't, because it's not true.

So you're a wizard, then?

[satansaloser2005]

My real regret is that I didn't live one more Day and have the chance to Night kill the ranger. Imagine it! The wolves killing each and every gifted during the Night, while the village never lynched a single wolf without the help of one of their packmates....

[satansaloser2005]

So you're a wizard, then?

I've been waiting to say this.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54VJWHL2K3I)

[Rikae]

And still you lose.

And everyone who commented on my joke was indeed a wolf, even though that wasn't a serious thought in the first place!

Excellent.

X'd with Sally - lol.

[Nogrod]

It was a funny game. Well a bit weird even.

And I don't remember when it was the last time I survived to the end... Hooray!

[satansaloser2005]

And still you lose.

And everyone who commented on my joke was indeed a wolf, even though that wasn't a serious thought in the first place!

Excellent.

I laughed so hard when you said that. I kid you not. I need to find that post so I can rep it.

[Nogrod]

Go Trolls!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Five trolls sat in front of their cave, huddled around the small fire. They did not need a huge bonfire anymore, as their numbers had grown really thin. As the night darkened, one by one, stars were popping up in the sky, but the trolls scarcely spoke to each other. The remaining Wizard was also among them, cloaked by his disguise, and his head filled with grim thoughts of his fellows, who had failed at their task, and with grim visions of the future.

Slowly, moon rose above the hills, casting its pale light over the sharp rocks, its light glistening on the mountain-streams so they looked like rivers of molten silver.

"The night's gettin' on," Rick finally broke the silence. "We still have one wizzer amongst us. We can't sleep during the day when he's still here."
"Don't sleep, then," said Nerve. "I never do."
Sal's eyes turned on her.
"What? Are you saying you don't sleep?" She seemed startled. "Great Elephants! Does that mean..."
"What?" Kat frowned. "Great what?"
"She said ah-laff-hunts," said Nog. "What's ah-laff-hunts, Sal?"

Sal shifted uncomfortably. "Eh, they are, um, things. Big things. Big animals."
"Big?" asked Rick. "How big?"
"Really big," Sal answered, still looking rather uncomfortable about the topic.
"Like really, really big?" asked Kat. "Do they make good supper?"
"Where do you find ay-luff-ants, anyway?" Nerve demanded. "Haven't seen an ay-luff-ant before, only normal ants, and they're pretty small."
"They live in the south," explained Sal, annoyed. But that remark made Rick jump up.
"South? And how'd you get south? There's too much sun there!"
"Um," Sal stammered, "over hill, er, under hill?"
"Over 'ill an' under 'ill?" Nog repeated. "That doesn't make any sense!"
"She's speaking in riddles!" Kat yelled. "She's a wizzer!"

But Sal was already on her feet.
"Stand back!" she screamed. "Stand back, or I'll curse you!"
"She's a wizzer!" Nerve shouted. "Get'er!" Though she did not seem to have the nerve to heed her own command. Rick stooped to pick up a rock, but it was as if some invisible force prevented her from using it.
"I will turn you all into spotted frogs! I will send snakes after you!" Sal spoke, as she retreated away from Rick and Nerve's side of the fire, holding a troll-club, which slowly started changing into an elaborately carven staff. Even Sal seemed to change, her body becaming smaller, her nose more pointy, her eyebrows longer, and beard sprouted from her chin.

"I will make your remaining hair fall off!" she continued, playing for time as she stepped to the side to put the fire between her(or him?)self and Kat. "I will make the sun come up and burn you all! I will-"

But at that moment, the thick figure of Nog jumped up from the shadows behind Sal, and popped a sack right over her(or his?) head and down to her(or his?) toes.

The trolls roared in triumph.

"We got us a wizzer, we got us a wizzer," Rick chanted, while Nerve helped Nog tying up the sack and Kat was putting more wood to the fire.

"This time, we do it proper," she disclaimed. "I say we first sit on the wizzer, since it worked first time..."
"...then mince 'im fine, since the food must be good..." Nog added.
"...then boil 'im, and, of course, eat 'im," Nerve finished.

So let us leave the trolls in the midst of their merry and well-deserved feast. We will only tell you the following: that night they went to sleep with their bellies full for the first time in a long time, and they were very happy.


~*~


Dumb and Dead
Thinlómien, "Lom", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1
Legate of Amon Lanc, "Leg", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1
Pomegranate, "Pom", a Wizard, boiled and eaten on Day 1
Ozban, "Oz", an Ordinary Troll, crushed to death by a troll pyramid on Day 2
Volo, "Vol", Traitor Troll, magically opened up like a door on Night 3
Bane Mantra, "Bane", an Ordinary Troll, turned into stone while hunting (modfired) on Day 3
Boromir88, "Bore", Ordinary Troll, forgotten outside the cave and turned into stone on Day 3
Brinniel, "Brin", the Clever Troll, strangled to death with the assistance of magical studs on Night4
Gil-Galad, "Gil", an Ordinary Troll, beaten to death by his fellows on Day 4
Shastanis Althreduin, "Shaz", an Ordinary Troll, lost in search for Bane (modfired) on Day 4
A Little Green, "Green", an Ordinary Troll, blown up with fireworks on Night 5
Morsul the Dark, "Mors", an Ordinary Troll, roasted, but not eaten on Day 5
Loslote, "Lot", the Purse-holder Troll, lured into daylight on Night 6
McCaber, "Cab", a Wizard, identified by the troll-purse and suffocated to death on Night 6
Inziladun, "Lad", a Wizard, roasted but not rescued on Day 6
Coppermirror, "Cop", an Ordinary Troll, spotlighted on Night 7
satansaloser2005, "Sal", a Wizard, sat on, minced fine, boiled and eaten on Day 7

Dumb and Walking
Kath, "Kat", an Ordinary Troll
Nerwen, "Nerve", the Insomniac Troll
Nogrod, "Nog", an Ordinary Troll
Rikae, "Rick", an Ordinary Troll

~*~

The game has ended. The Trolls have won! Congratulations from both Mods, ye louts!

Now everyone can start posting merrily on this thread. :)

[satansaloser2005]

Go Trolls!

Lift up your feet, ye stinky blighters, and fall on your-

Assuming the other wizards are all right with it, I'll post our commentaries at some point over the next day or two. You'll be interested to know that we actually rolled dice upon one Night....and killed Brinn as a result.


EDIT: x'd with narration

[satansaloser2005]

I knew Nerwen was the ranger. I knew it, I knew it, I knew it! My gifted Nerwen radar still functions. ^_^

[Nogrod]

Kudos to all the survivors - and all those who were killed during the ordeal!

As important as it is to be able to suspect people, this game once again showed how important it is to trust others as well. Well, especially if you trust the right people... :rolleyes:

And hey, a great bow to the mods for the funny idea for the game and the sometimes just too hilarious narrations!


You Wizzers had some really tough start to this game then, right? I'd like to know what were your feelings there. And you seemed to just run rampant untill McCaber got caught by Lottie's beautiful individual pick - which seemed to have changed ev erything for good. Or?

Would like to hear how did you guys see it going...

[Thinlómien]

Thanks for playing, everyone!

My special kudos go to Nerwen for making a save, Lottie for catching a wizard and Sally for almost making it.

This was a very entertaining (except when people were unhappy) and educational game to follow, and I think both teams managed to get both very lucky and very unlucky. It was quite exciting to see which team would emerge as the winner.

This game is also by the way the fifth game I've modded or co-modded and it continues the unbroken tradition that when I mod, village wins. ;)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

This was an amazing, massive, hilarious game; great to watch and with some really cool twists. I guess I don't need to tell you, but you've been all doing great, folks. And when I say all, I mean all of you. Thanks so much for playing! Something amazing. :)

[Inziladun]

First off, congats to the innocents, especially Nerwen, for saving Bane, and Lottie for inspired hunting.

And apologies to my mates. I knew on my last Night I wasn't going to have a lot of time for the game that phase, and when it seemed clear from the start that I was heavily suspected, my frustration was genuine. I worried that any hasty attempt to defend myself would not only be ineffective, but could help the village ferret out Sally. So I made my vote and just hoped for the best.

Once again, sorry for what looks to me like a failure on my part. :(

[McCaber]

Great game, all. I had a blast from day 1 bussing a packmate with little provocation all the way to sally's valiant effort at the end game.

I do think Lottie's hunt was the game changer here. It killed me, flushed Inzil out into the open, and forced sally to play her hand too early. Rikae, I'm sorry if I put you under too much stress. Pom, let that be a lesson to you about messing up early. Inzil and sally, we made a good try of it, and I'd gladly wolf with you anytime.

- McCandalf the Grey

[Thinlómien]

I do think Lottie's hunt was the game changer here. It killed me, flushed Inzil out into the open, and forced sally to play her hand too early.I agree - before that I was thinking you wizards would win, but it changed the situation quite dramatically. And I don't mean to belittle Lottie's achievement by saying the following: it was actually one of the few if not the only Night when she actually hunted a wolf. :p

Also, was anyone else creeped out by Rikae's accuracy in this game, starting from the jokey accusations on Day1? :eek:


PS. My repping spree continues in 24h.

[Inziladun]

Great game, all. I had a blast from day 1 bussing a packmate with little provocation all the way to sally's valiant effort at the end game.

I do think Lottie's hunt was the game changer here. It killed me, flushed Inzil out into the open, and forced sally to play her hand too early. Rikae, I'm sorry if I put you under too much stress. Pom, let that be a lesson to you about messing up early. Inzil and sally, we made a good try of it, and I'd gladly wolf with you anytime.

Agreed with all the above.

Also, was anyone else creeped out by Rikae's accuracy in this game, starting from the jokey accusations on Day1? :eek:

I believe that was a topic of discussion for us privately. We kept worrying though that she was protected.

And before anyone asks, I had no idea Pom would actually be in danger when I voted for her. :rolleyes:

[Morsul the Dark]

:DWooo god job nog nerwen kath rikae and Sally too!

Seriously interesting game certainly got heated at some points. But we'rew all friends again yes?:D

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I agree - before that I was thinking you wizards would win, but it changed the situation quite dramatically.
I guess I am not alone in the feeling that in the beginning I was thinking "uh, starts pretty bad for the Wizards", but then it turned around and it really seemed like you guys are going to win massively... But you did great job, seriously, when I was looking at people's suspect lists, usually at most one of you was in the "suspect" cathegory of people, and always a different one; on top of that, some people suspected neither of you (sally, I think, was mostly unsuspected by anyone)... I think that is a credit to both you, the gifteds, and the ordos that the game turned out the way it did. I think this was truly a show of "game" in the proper sense of the word.

Also, was anyone else creeped out by Rikae's accuracy in this game, starting from the jokey accusations on Day1? :eek:

Just so. Starting with the first post, we were like "now the Wizards must be thinking she's the Seer". So actually, Wizards, did you? Or what was your feeling about that all? :)