WW CI - Mutton yesterDay, mutton toDay and mutton toMorrow

[Thinlómien]

It was very early in the morning somewhere in the foothills of the Misty Mountains. A clan of trolls had recently come down from the mountains and settled in a large cave in rock. They had eaten the three nearby villages and now all they had left were the occasional flocks belonging to the daring shepherds from faraway villages. The trolls were sitting on a small clearing with a fire and some food and waiting for dawn - that is the bed-time of all trolls small and large.

"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrow!" grumbled Lom, the leader of the troll clan.
"Shut yer mouth or you won't have nothing!" answered Leg who was always at war with Lom because he fancied himself the boss. He was also the best huntsman of the trolls.
"Why's there no bloody humans or something like?" grumbled Green who loved to add her voice to other people's complaints.
"We et a village each, ye booby," replied Bane, who liked to demonstrate his superior intelligence.
"Booby yerself, and Green too. No need to talk while we eat," said Bore, who needed all his concentration for his food.
"Watch it, Bore," said Cop, a troll who liked troll around.
"Yer not the boss," agreed Gil, who always agreed with everyone except when he disagreed.
"I dunno about ye others, but I have no boss," said Lad, who liked arguing.
"Who said that?" growled Lom.
"Twas Lad," said Kat readily.
"Twas Lot," said contradicted Cab.
"What lot? It was just one voice!" Brin protested. She was - sad to say - quite stupid even for a troll.
"Lot as in Lot," clarified Oz, who was always unhelpful like this.
"Twasn't me!" protested Lot, who always protested.
"Shut yer mouth, twas yer," said Mors, who liked settling things whether they went right or wrong.
"Twasn't, twas me," said Nerve, the trollest of the trolls, and possibly the dumbest.
"Twas you who did what?" asked Nog, confused. It was his way to ask questions.

There was a silence.
"Twas her who said there's no boss," said Pom finally. She did think unlike some of the trolls, but slower than a snail.
"I didn't!" Nerve protested.
"Nor did I!" Lot shouted. "I didn't say it! I didn't!"
"Shut yer mouth!" said Rick who was in no mood for nonsense, as usual.
"And ye shut yer mouth too," said Sal, who thought everyone should always be as quiet, as stupid or as dirty as the next troll.
"Everybody shut yer mouth. I'm the boss or you have no food. Understood?" said Lom.
"Unless I bring you some," amended Leg.
"You do nothing of the sort!" warned Lom.
"The fire's dying," piped in Shaz who had been unchracteristically paying attention to the environment.
"Then do something about it and shut yer mouth," said Vol, who was very anti-social even for a troll.

"If Leg don't bring us food, we starve!" said a voice.
"Who said that?" screamed Lom.
"Twas Green," said the voice.
"Twasn't! Shut up Bore!" said Green who was already quite fed up with the discussion.
"I said nothing!" Bore protested. The use of his name - which, as you can see, was not so flattering - always made him angry.
"Yer not," a voice agreed. "But Gil did."
"Shut yer mouth, Kat! I've been quiet as mouse!" Gil cried, eager to demonstrate he wasn't the trouble-maker.
"Mouses are not quiet and besides twasn't me who said that," said Kat who was trying - for the first time in her life - to combine two thoughts in one sentence.
"Mice," corrected another unidentifiable voice.
"Very funny, Cab, you always think yer so smart," said Nerve, who didn't really like smart people.
"I am not smart!" Cab protested, speaking the truth.
"'Tis true, I didn't see his mouth move," said Pom, who had been watching very hard.
"Yer blind as well as stupid," said Sal. "He was chewing mutton all the time."
"He always eats and talks at the same time," complained a voice, which really didn't sound like any that had been heard that evening.
"What's so disgusting about that?" challenged Vol, food spluttering from his mouth as he spoke.
"Nothin," said Bane quickly. "Cop's just prim as an elf-maid."
"I am not!" said Cop hotly.
"Now finish yer mutton and shut yer mouth EVERYONE," said Lom, who was getting pretty angry. "It's getting late and we don't want to be here when dawn comes."

With a lot more grumbling and arguing, the trolls finished their supper. Leg fed the fire and eyed everyone suspiciously. He was quite sure something was wrong. Slowly, the sky was getting lighter. "Let's go now," Leg said, and for once, no one disagreed. The trolls crept into their dark cave and went to bed. When trying to fall asleep, they could still hear a few voices arguing:
"You're in my bed! Get out!" said Lad.
"Nonsense, it is my bed!" said Lot.
"Yer both in my bed and if you don't get out, I'll squish yer heads!" bellowed Mors, who happened to be right, (which he seldom was).
"What was that noise about?" asked Nog, whose sleep had been disturbed.
"Rick's just snoring. Go back to sleep," said Shaz, who never understood anything.
"Twas Brin snoring, not Rick," corrected Oz, who understood even less than Shaz.
"Now shut yer mouths everyone," said Lom for the third and last time. "Or we go back to the mountains."
This threat was enough to silence the noisiest troll, and they all went to bed quite overdoing themselves, as even the stupidest trolls finally found their own beds and managed to put their heads (or their toes) on the pillows and close their eyes. Soon the whole cave was filled with the merry and ear-breaking sound of trollish snoring.

Everybody, however, was not asleep. Unbeknowst to the poor trolls, four wizards had already done away with four of their clan and assumed their likenesses. They had been the four weird voices taking part in their argument. Quietly they rose from their beds and slipped away from the dark unto the harsh light of the day to hatch an evil plan...


~*~


Night1 has started. Wizards, feel free to PM each other. Clever troll, you may send us your dream pick. Others, shut up and sleep until night falls and the Day phase starts.


~*~

The Crew
Thinlómien, "Lom"
Legate of Amon Lanc, "Leg"

The Cast
A Little Green, "Green"
Bane Mantra, "Bane"
Boromir88, "Bore"
Brinniel, "Brin"
Coppermirror, "Cop"
Gil-Galad, "Gil"
Inziladun, "Lad"
Kath, "Kat"
Loslote, "Lot"
McCaber, "Cab"
Morsul the Dark, "Mors"
Nerwen, "Nerve"
Nogrod, "Nog"
Ozban, "Oz"
Pomegranate, "Pom"
Rikae, "Rick"
satansaloser2005, "Sal"
Shastanis Althreduin, "Shaz"
Volo, "Vol"

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

The sunlight glistened on the green leaves of the trees, the bees buzzed in the air, warm wind blew from the south and the four Wizards stood by a swift mountain brook running merrily down the slope and discussed their position.
"It is very good, my friends," said one of them. "The foolish trolls won't even notice us. They are really not very bright."
"Less than bright," the second one agreed. "But still it won't go as easily as we thought. As long as there are enough of those who have only a bit of wit left, they will not stay outside until dawn, even if they are arguing like mad."
"Alas, not," said the third Wizard. "But perhaps if there are less of them, who can tell? We might try to lessen their numbers, few by few, until only the dumbest group is left, such a group that will argue until dawn and turn into stone."
"Then we should start by eliminating the most dangerous ones," said the fourth Wizard. "Have you noticed one of them looking around strangely? That one who was supposed to bring food?"
"Leg?" the second Wizard asked. "True, he has bigger head than is good for him, possibly. It does not mean he will be more clever, though."
"Or the leader, Lom," the fourth Wizard continued. "As long as the trolls have a leader, she can always put them in line."
"That is a good point," said the first Wizard. "As long as there is one will behind these creatures, we can never trick them into staying up outside until dawn."
"It's settled, then," said the third Wizard. "We must act, and quick!"

So it happened that Leg was very surprised when another troll woke him up in the middle of the day.
"What's up?" he asked, but the other troll only gestured to the entrance. Grunting and grumbling, he followed.
The troll's cave was huge, so it took them a while until they reached the mouth of the cavern, and there he stopped.
"But," Leg said, "there is still light outside!"
The other troll shrugged. "It ain't a big deal. Others are waiting there."
Leg frowned, looked from the troll to the sunlit ground.
"I ain't that stupid to go out when the sun is still up!"
"But we are here," said one of three trolls who emerged from a group of trees.
"Come, we have something to show you," said another.
Leg frowned even more, and the three, seeing his reluctance, walked close to the arm's reach. One of them extended his stone-colored arm.
"Come, you must see this," the troll said, but by that time, Leg had figured out something was terribly wrong here. He shouted and pounced at the nearest troll, who was still in the shadow of the cave. They fell to the floor, rolling and fighting.
"Help me!" the other troll yelled at his fellows, and suddenly he began changing shape, he was growing small and tried to slip out of Leg's mighty clutch. Leg grabbed for where a moment ago his neck was, but because the Wizard now became distinctly smaller, he grabbed only his hat. That confused him for a moment, and the Wizard rolled himself into safety, leaving Leg staring in suprise at the pointed hat.
That was the point when Lom appeared. She had been sleeping closest to the cave entrance and the sounds of battle woke her up.
"It's wizards!" Leg shouted, rising up. Lom had never been slow to act. With a roar, she slammed her fists into two of the fake trolls, almost knocking them down. Leg also lurched himself at the remaining one and once again it became wrestling on the ground. But what Lom and Leg realised too late was that where the three false trolls stood, the sun was already shining, and suddenly they felt their bodies becoming stiff and heavy.
"Blighted bu-" yelled Lom, and grabbed for the trolls' throats, but too late, she stumbled forwards and exposed her whole body to the sun. In the blink of an eye, she became a statue, holding the two trolls by their throats.
"Uff," said the Wizard wrestled down by Leg, and tried to move himself from under his newly formed statue. "That was close."
"We must be more careful next day," said one of the two Wizards held by Lom, who had returned to his normal shape. To his dismay, his hat remained closed in Lom's fist, as was that of his colleagues whom Lom had also clutched by his throat.
"You are right," he said. "But for now, let us disappear. More might have heard the sound of fighting, and we must not be seen here."
"Let us go back to our places in the cave unseen," advised the last of them, "and there resume our troll form. Let us see what the trolls will do."

Thus the Wizards dispatched the two trolls they considered the most dangerous of all. Unbeknowst to them, however, the most clever of all the trolls in the cave had remained there. This troll's wits were not apparent to everyone, but he, unlike his comrades, was able to think and remember familiar features. And even though it often took hours to the troll to think, he would eventually be able to find the minor details in which the Wizards' disguises differed from the real trolls.

Deep within the cave, one more troll could not sleep. He had been sleeping in a different place every day, in hope to cure his insomnia, but the truth was, he could hardly sleep at all.

As the night came, the trolls began wandering around the woods in the vicinity of their camp in search for something to eat. But there wasn't anything to be found, since all the animals had fled as far away from the troll camp as possible already during the past months. It took long enough for the trolls to discover the two stone slabs, but even as dumb as they were, they eventually figured out that something had changed in the scenery near their home. It was Rick who shouted out first to alert the rest of the trolls to the unusual phenomenon.
"Blimey, Gil, look what I've found!" she said.
"What is it?" said the others coming up.
"Lumme, if I knows!" said Rick.
"Ain't that some o' us?" asked Lot, observing the stones.
"Maybe," Mors opined. "Bu' who?"
"Let's count yerselves," Cop advised. "Tha' way we find how many o' us is missing."
"One," said Vol.
"Two," said Bane.
"One," said Nog.
"Two," Shaz finished.
"Tha' won't work," Pom opined. "Everyone say yer name."
"Nerve," said Nerve.
"Oz," said Oz.
"Where's Leg?" Bore asked, looking around.
"Under yer fat belly, Bore," Sal dismissed him.
"Not me leg, but Leg, with that big 'ead," Bore said.
"He's gone!" shouted Lad.
"Blimey, that's him!" Kat said, knocking at one of the stones in front of them.
"Poor old bugger got 'imself turned to stone!" Cab yelled in frightful voice. "What was he a-thinkin'?"
"An' who be th'other?" asked Green. "Who else is a-missin'?"
"Lumme, if I knows!" said Rick.
"'kay, who else's a-missin', raise yer hand," Brin suggested, but Nog interrupted her.
"No, ye lout! They can't raise them 'ands if they're not 'ere! It's us who must raise our 'ands, o'course!"
"No good raisin' our hands, it'd take all night," Gil remarked.
"Wait! Wait!" Pom began to shout, as she at last noticed something unusual about the statues. "Wha's tha' funny stuff they'r 'oldin' in their 'ands?"
"Lumme, if I-" Rick started, but Vol sprung forwards and tried to wrestle what looked like pieces of colorful clothing from Lom and Leg's closed fists.
"Blimey," Nerve gasped, looking over his shoulder. "These are hats! One, two, two, um, what comes after two?"
"Two, four hats!" Lot finished counting, surprisingly correctly.
"What's a hat got to do in 'ere hands, anyways?" Cab wondered.
"Blimey! These are wizard hats!" Lad gasped, as much as a troll can gasp.
"What's a wizard hat got to do in 'ere, anyways?" Cab retorted.
"Ain't that a-clear?" asked Green, and immediately answered to herself: "No, it ain't."
"Wizards kill trolls," Shaz remembered the one of two tales the trolls usually tell around their fireplaces. "Wha' if they did tha' to Leg and, um, wha' was his name again..."
"Our leader knows every-un's names," Cop suggested. "Let's ask 'er."
"Bu', where's she?" Oz wondered.
"Where's Lom?" others repeated, suddenly realising who's missing.
"Blimey!" shouted Kat, at last. "Tha' must be 'er!" She pointed at the stone standing beside Leg. "Them wizards done her in!"
"Wha' are we gonna do?"
The trolls started shouting on top of each other, as you probably know all trolls do, especially when they are leaderless. Among them, applauding their own ingenuity, were the Wizards, hidden and trying to cause even more confusion in their troll-disguises.

Not all the trolls had been totally careless, though. One of them, who had owned a special troll-purse, realised the full scope of the threat to his person. Using a moment of confusion, the troll slipped aside and whispered to his purse.
"If any dirty wizard wants to get 'is 'ands on me, 'e'll pay. Watch out, for tha' bugger," the troll pointed at one of the others.
"Just so," the purse squeaked. Content, the troll hid it in his pocket and returned to the rest.

The insomniact troll also did not feel entirely comfortable about the situation. Knowing full well he wouldn't be able to sleep anyway, he decided to stand guard over one troll each day, hoping to protect them from the Wizards.

Another of the trolls, however, began to think that perhaps it might not be such a bad idea to get rid of the rest of the trolls. Obviously, if the other trolls were all turned to stone, there will be no need to share his food with anyone. The troll did not know who the Wizards were, but he figured out he could try to help them all the same.


~*~


Day 1 has started. Wizards, stop PMing. Purse-troll, you may send us your target for toDay. Everyone, start trolling. I mean, talking.


~*~


Dumb and Dead
Thinlómien, "Lom", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1
Legate of Amon Lanc, "Leg", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1

Dumb and Walking
A Little Green, "Green"
Bane Mantra, "Bane"
Boromir88, "Bore"
Brinniel, "Brin"
Coppermirror, "Cop"
Gil-Galad, "Gil"
Inziladun, "Lad"
Kath, "Kat"
Loslote, "Lot"
McCaber, "Cab"
Morsul the Dark, "Mors"
Nerwen, "Nerve"
Nogrod, "Nog"
Ozban, "Oz"
Pomegranate, "Pom"
Rikae, "Rick"
satansaloser2005, "Sal"
Shastanis Althreduin, "Shaz"
Volo, "Vol"

[Volo]

Oh, we might not need to eat mutton today. I wonder what Wizers taste like. I do think a Wizer a day will keep the day at day. Hmm, I know what, I'll start tasting you trolls to see who tastes like a Wizer. So who shall I lick first? But I know first sometroll needs to lick me to know if I'm a Wizer and if I'm not then I'll lick myself and know that if I ever wanted to eat a Wizer, I shouldn't eat myself. Or thingsum. To know what a Wizer tastes like I need to taste a Wizer and know that the Wizer I'm tasting is a Wizer. Do you think some Wizers have fleshier hats? There's not much meat on the hats here, huh.
I'll go back to sleep though if I can find which way the cave goes deeper and which is the way back to the entrence. I never know. But I like waking up late in the night.
I'll lick myself just to be sure though. If I sometime lick a Wizer and a Wizer tastes like me I'll know I can go to sleep later too.

[Pomegranate]

It's bad we cannae eat stone, others there were nice meat to eat this night.

Maybe Leg an' Lom were wizers and turned themself unto stone? That would be clever, none's ever gonna think they done it.

[Kath]

"If ever oh ever a wiz there was the wizard of Oz is one because; because, because, because, becaauuuuusssee ..."

Wait, wait, wait, wrong kind of wizard right? I mean I haven't seen any green city round here, and no hot air balloons either. Maybe that clears Green of being an evil wizard type. Or maybe that's what she wants us to think and she's really green as ... as ... a really green evil thing. Like spinach.

Eurgh. Spinach. Just thinking of that has me feeling sick. I'm out of here.

[Inziladun]

I always wanted t' try a bit o' that burrahobbit I heard about once. But I guess one o' then Wizers could taste mighty good too. I'd like t' see anyway.

Maybe Leg an' Lom were wizers and turned themself unto stone? That would be clever, none's ever gonna think they done it.

Y' know, that'd be jest like 'em two to know something like that. But I reckon they'd have remembered they couldn't eat no more if they was stone.

[Ozban]

Cuz us can roast rocky Leggy or eat stony Lommy not. Me say us all do some funny thingy. Say we all turn around to stand on our heads with single toe reaching out to skies having arm on us belly singing or reciting.
Whoever manages is a wizzer, cause no troll ever could.
Troll would never make his arm to sing.

Guess I'll take good midnight nap.

Hit me head when sometin's up.

[Morsul the Dark]

"I hopes these Wizzers is tasty Cause I mean I want some meats. But we have to be careful. They's got woody sticky things that pew magic... they's scary...."

Loving the dialogue laughing myself crazy.

MY brain might implode with so many people.

let's see first impression on my feller trollmens

A Little Green, "Green"- been a while don't know his style
Bane Mantra, "Bane"- Brand new, newbie pass for a day?
Boromir88, "Bore"- Sure will confuse me before the end but usually very logical
Brinniel, "Brin"- tends to be fairly low key will watch
Coppermirror, "Cop"- nothing stands out
Gil-Galad, "Gil"- thinks like me sometimes, might be able to read her better.
Inziladun, "Lad"- sneaky as a wolf sly as an ordo so toss up
Kath, "Kat"- don't recall playstyle
Loslote, "Lot"- usually logical
McCaber, "Cab"- go either way usually ends up on my suspicious list
Morsul the Dark, "Mors"- will confuse all, but in this game makessense:p
Nerwen, "Nerve"- Quiet cordial always under my radar
Nogrod, "Nog"- Highly logical and might be tough to spot if a wolf
Ozban, "Oz"- New to me
Pomegranate, "Pom"- tends to be suspicious to me
Rikae, "Rick"- don't recall playstyle
satansaloser2005, "Sal"- getting better at not tunnel visioning her try to read better
Shastanis Althreduin, "Shaz"- Go either way
Volo, "Vol"- Don't recall

Thanks for alphabetical order makes my life easier.:D

[Loslote]

"Lot"- usually logical

'Ogical? What's this 'ogical? Is it a food? Is it a Wizer thing? You callin' me a Wizer? Hey, how 'bout you're a wizer, huh? How's that for 'ogical?

An' what's Kat doin' singin' 'bout Wizers of Oz? She sayin' Oz is a Wizer? You know sommut we don'?

[Boromir88]

Blimey, Volo! stop yer lickin' me! If I don't serpose haf of you taste haff as well as I should like and I like less than haff of you haff as well as you would taste!

[Rikae]

So, if there are wizards that means four of us will turn into wolves every night, right? I don't know if I remember how this goes, it's been a while. How many of the wizards are evil? I'm guessing it'd be two, because that's fair, so two of us will turn into wolves and another, um... two will become gifted, right?

But never mind that, because we all know I'm the clever one around here! I say you listen to me and lynch Lad, because he's up to no good and besides he's got plenty of meat on his bones. How about it? :D

[Loslote]

So, if there are wizards that means four of us will turn into wolves every night, right? I don't know if I remember how this goes, it's been a while. How many of the wizards are evil? I'm guessing it'd be two, because that's fair, so two of us will turn into wolves and another, um... two will become gifted, right?

There ain't never been no good Wizer. Or, mayhap the only good Wizer is a dead Wizer. Or a roasted Wizer. Or a boiled Wizer. Or maybe a stewed Wizer...but annerway, all the Wizers are bad. T'only 'giftereds' 'round 'ere are Trolls t'the bone.

[Kath]

Kath, "Kat"- don't recall playstyle

M'favourite's that one with all the singing where everyone dies. Shame you don't get to eat 'em at the end. Don't think there was a wizard in that one though. Think this Mors is trying to distract us here! More talk of us trolls than them wizards.

[Inziladun]

But never mind that, because we all know I'm the clever one around here! I say you listen to me and lynch Lad, because he's up to no good and besides he's got plenty of meat on his bones. How about it? :D

Clever you may be, but It's those who aren't up to no good who are the ones to fear here. ;)

And "plenty of meat"? You obviously haven't seen me. :eek:

[Pomegranate]

Tasty Wizer, Good Wizer. Sneaky Wizer, no good. Sneaky, Tasty Wizer... Soon Dead Wizer.

I would love to write the whole day in troll-talk, but I'm afraid it won't lead us far (though I love your version of it, Rikae). After all, fluency in accent writing is not the best measure for troll-ness and wizardness.

Just recapping the rules. There are four wolves and a cobbler. Three gifteds. 19 players. That makes 14 players on the side of the trolls and 5 against. No complex rules demanding complex strategies to be discussed on the first day. A lot of name-remembering though - I don't think I've ever played in this big a game.

Morsul's been putting some effort in, though I'm not entirely sure what it gives us. I guess rather a setting to his mind than anything from this game - going through playstyles and such. I have to ask - when you say I usually seem suspicious, does that mean that you'll suspect me regardless or that you will try to avoid suspecting me on gut feeling, because I always seem that to you anyway?

And as little information as trolling around gives us, saying nothing gives us even less. It is the start of the Night (Day) only, but hopefully we'll hear soon from the rest of the people. I should be in bed, so shall be back later with hopefully some conversation going on. As much as Day Ones are always Day Ones, something can always be acquired as long as the discussion keeps going.

[Morsul the Dark]

Morsul's been putting some effort in, though I'm not entirely sure what it gives us. I guess rather a setting to his mind than anything from this game - going through playstyles and such. I have to ask - when you say I usually seem suspicious, does that mean that you'll suspect me regardless or that you will try to avoid suspecting me on gut feeling, because I always seem that to you anyway?
.

That I'll try avoiding knee jerk reactions. I have terrible tunnel vision in these games(been getting better though) and with 17 other eople this is definitely something I can't afford to do.

I certainly feel odd being the least IC on the first page:rolleyes:

[Morsul the Dark]

Oh my, didn't count 18 other players wow this game is full.

[Gil-Galad]

Gil-Galad, "Gil"- thinks like me sometimes, might be able to read her better.


Oy! Watch who ur calling she-troll ya rockhead.

If there be Wizer, or Wizer's amongst us I reckon there be too many of us right now. Let e'veryone say their bit. See if Ol' Gil's nose can sniff out dem Wizer's.

[Morsul the Dark]

Oy! Watch who ur calling she-troll ya rockhead.

If there be Wizer, or Wizer's amongst us I reckon there be too many of us right now. Let e'veryone say their bit. See if Ol' Gil's nose can sniff out dem Wizer's.

...Well this is embarrassin I misread your name thought you were G55..

So Gil- Don't recall playstyle.

[Boromir88]

I ate a wizer once. Roastin 'im werent very tastey, too stringy., er it may 'ave been a lizer.

[Gil-Galad]

...Well this is embarrassin I misread your name thought you were G55..

So Gil- Don't recall playstyle.

Past games I die immediately. I am kinda like the Red Shirt of WW games.

[Morsul the Dark]

Pom's suggestion seems to be fairly genuine little information is better than no information.

[Inziladun]

Pom's suggestion seems to be fairly genuine little information is better than no information.

Well, it was sensible enough, but I wouldn't call it a "suggestion". A standard Day 1 statement, more like.

[Morsul the Dark]

Kath sings a bit about wizard of oz. banter or cobbler hint?

In response to me reiterates the singing bit. Drawing attention to the hint?

[Galadriel55]

...Well this is embarrassin I misread your name thought you were G55..

I invade minds.

Clearly I am the wizard.

*jumps off a cliff*

[McCaber]

Oi iz here! End it seems Leg and Lom dun git et by wizzards. Oi hears they can gobbles down a troll quick as ye loike. Er, as they loikes.

Ennywho, it seems this Noight be mighty talkertive, an as Oi just git back from the daily grind, it'll take me a whoile ta catch up.

[Nerwen]

Oy! That Pom's making' me head ache with 'er jabber! I don't trust those as can't talk proper.
Edit: x'd with various.

[Nerwen]

An' 'oo's this Galadriel55 as says she's a wizard? I don't trust 'er. Why would a wizard up an' say she's a wizard? Nah, she's lyin', I reckon. So she must be a 'orrible, lyin' wizard!
...'Arf a moment... Gah! Now me 'ead really 'urts! What's the good of bein' made of stone, I arks yer?

[McCaber]

Dropping the accent as I can feel it eating away my brain cells.

Our cast and my thoughts, in order of appearance:
Volo: Makes the traditional in-character first post. Nothing since then. But it's late now in his time zone, so I'll only expect more in the morning.
Pom: Rules recap, an eye on Morsul, and telling people to talk more.
Kath: IC posts and suspicion of Morsul.
Inzil: claims to be too skinny to eat and defends Pom. Automatically suspicious, as every troll knows that anything worth having is worth eating.
Ozban: IC post, bows out for the night.
Morsul: runs down a list of gut feelings, and is trying his best to lead an actual discussion of what little we know toNight. I've got to appreciate that kind of effort.
Lottie: We already know Wizards are tasty. That's why we want to eat 'em.
Boro: IC posts.
Rikae: Dueling Wizards flashback. Snap out of it, Rikae!
Gil: claims to be a werewolf redshirt. Maybe we lynch him first just out of tradition?
G55: Is she even in this game? There's more than enough players as it is. We don't need bypassers messing things up even more.
Nerwen: More suspicion of Pom.

Everyone else: quiet. Too quiet...

[Rikae]

I see, so Pom, Inzil and McCaber are trying to convince us that wizards don't act like wizards. Suspicious. Why would they be called "wizards" if they didn't change anyone's role, hmmm? Who would want us to think the wizards had fewer powers than they do, other than... wizards? :eek:

Accents? You're all just a bunch of lunkheads that never got any proper education. Just because I'm a troll doesn't mean I don't know the difference between "its" and "it's". Its obvious because of it's apostrophe.

Now, what's this about singing having to do with cobbler hinting?

[satansaloser2005]

Past games I die immediately. I am kinda like the Red Shirt of WW games.

Now that's downright ridiculous. Insinuating that a troll would wear a shirt. Only wizards wear shirts. Hey, wait a minute....

[Gil-Galad]

Now that's downright ridiculous. Insinuating that a troll would wear a shirt. Only wizards wear shirts. Hey, wait a minute....

Sometimes my pants are my shirts, and vice-versa. Troll onesies if you will.

[satansaloser2005]

Sometimes my pants are my shirts, and vice-versa. Troll onesies if you will.

Normal trolls don't wear clothes, ye fool! :mad:

[Nerwen]

I see, so Pom, Inzil and McCaber are trying to convince us that wizards don't act like wizards. Suspicious. Why would they be called "wizards" if they didn't change anyone's role, hmmm? Who would want us to think the wizards had fewer powers than they do, other than... wizards? :eek:

Accents? You're all just a bunch of lunkheads that never got any proper education. Just because I'm a troll doesn't mean I don't know the difference between "its" and "it's". Its obvious because of it's apostrophe.

Now, what's this about singing having to do with cobbler hinting?
Lunkhead yerself! An' when did Pom, Lad 'n' Cab say anything' about wizards not actin' like wizards?

That about singin' cobblers is all Mors.. Don't see much in it meself.

[satansaloser2005]

I know a foolproof way to find out which of us are the good-for-everything, hoity toity wizards. Everyone hold up their feet. Right now, I say! Hold up yer stinkies, my friends!

Whoever be wearing shoes is the traitor. The wizards theyselves, they'll be wearing shoes as well, but fancy shoes. Probably shirts too, like Gil.

....Why is everyone on the ground?

[satansaloser2005]

Is it just me, or do I sound less like a troll and more like a pirate? :confused:

[Nerwen]

Normal trolls don't wear clothes, ye fool! :mad:
Don't wear clothes? That's the daftest thing I 'ever 'eard! 'Ow are we meant to keep purses in our pockets if we don't 'ave pockets to keep 'em in, yer big booby?

EDIT: x'd with Sally.

[satansaloser2005]

Don't wear clothes? That's the daftest thing I 'ever 'eard! 'Ow are we meant to keep purses in our pockets if we don't have pockets to keep 'em in?

We're trolls! We don't need pockets or purses. We just steals what we need or scare people into giving it to us. Purses! Pockets! Who ever heard of such a thing?

You're an odd troll, you are.

[Gil-Galad]

Well I'm keepin' mah nice red shirt if I can't have pants.

[satansaloser2005]

Well I'm keepin' mah nice red shirt if I can't have pants.

If you insist. I remember when trolls conducted themselves with grace and joy.

No. Wait. That was filled their bellies with Grace and Joy.

[Nerwen]

We're trolls! We don't need pockets or purses. We just steals what we need or scare people into giving it to us. Purses! Pockets! Who ever heard of such a thing?

You're an odd troll, you are.
An' yer a lout, Sal Huggins! Yer 'ole 'ead must be solid stone! 'Ow are we to know when burrahobbits an' the like is pickin' our pockets of our magic purses if we don't have pockets to pick, nor yet magic purses to squawk about it?

[satansaloser2005]

An' yer a lout, Sal Huggins! Yer 'ole 'ead must be solid stone! 'Ow are we to know when burrahobbits an' the like is pickin' our pockets of our magic purses if we don't have pockets to pick, nor yet magic purses to squawk about it?

If you don't have pockets, no one can pick them. Quite simple, really. Although it were nice of you to say my head was made of stone. Thank ye.

[Coppermirror]

I ain't happy about this! Wizers, coming here and turning Lom and Leg to stone. Lom was the only one who knew everyone's names, and now she's stone useless.

Sal's plan looks right good to me, 'cept nobody here's wearing shoes. We'll know the wizers by their actions, even if they don't smell like wizers. They're clever and tricksy, so all we need to do is thump whoever's acting clever. Everybody keep being like normal, and we'll catch 'em right quick.

...Oi...Is that what they want us to think? My head is achin'.

Let's get the pot boiling, anyway. T'is best if we has Wizzard for dinner. I'm tired of mutton.

[satansaloser2005]

Let's get the pot boiling, anyway. T'is best if we has Wizzard for dinner. I'm tired of mutton.

Aw, come on now! Tired of mutton? What kind of troll are ye? Don't you know the olden troll holiday carol, "I'm gettin' mutton for Christmas"? Where's your troll spirit, Cop?

[Coppermirror]

Aw, come on now! Tired of mutton? What kind of troll are ye? Don't you know the olden troll holiday carol, "I'm gettin' mutton for Christmas"? Where's your troll spirit, Cop?

Bah, not that song again. Someone else always takes the best mutton and leaves me with the worst! My troll spirit wants to eat somethin' else for once, even if I only get the skinny bits of the Wizzard. Maybe they're savoury, like. Or sweet? Let's find out.

I say that carol should go like this:

I'm gettin' mutton for Christmas
I'd rather eat a horse
I'd rather eat a nelly phant
and have a second course

I dunno what they look like, but nelly phants are bigger than horses and sheep, ain't they?

[Nerwen]

Aw, come on now! Tired of mutton? What kind of troll are ye? Don't you know the olden troll holiday carol, "I'm gettin' mutton for Christmas"? Where's your troll spirit, Cop?
Where's yours? Blimey, what self-respectin' she-troll wants stringy mutton to gnaw on when there's man-flesh to be had? (Wizards is Men, ain't they?)

[satansaloser2005]

Where's yours? Blimey, what self-respectin' she-troll wants stringy mutton to gnaw on when there's man-flesh to be had? (Wizards is Men, ain't they?)

They be wizard trolls! Don't any of ye pay attention? Mayhaps it your head what is filled with stone, and only mine that's really made of the stuff.

Unless of course you're all right with eating your own kind. I won't judge, as long as it isn't my leg you want to gnaw on.

[Nerwen]

They be wizard trolls! Don't any of ye pay attention? Mayhaps it your head what is filled with stone, and only mine that's really made of the stuff.

Unless of course you're all right with eating your own kind. I won't judge, as long as it isn't my leg you want to gnaw on.
Break me teeth on your tough old shanks? Not likely!

Nah, but these wizards ain't real trolls, they just look that way.

[Coppermirror]

They be wizard trolls! Don't any of ye pay attention? Mayhaps it your head what is filled with stone, and only mine that's really made of the stuff.

Unless of course you're all right with eating your own kind. I won't judge, as long as it isn't my leg you want to gnaw on.


They'll taste like troll? You're dashin' my dreams here, Sal.

...

Hah, you can't fool me! You're just tryin' to get the best bits fer yerself, you sneak. I'll be saunterin' up to the pot late, all sad, and going to eat the dregs, and then I'll know: it was tasty man-flesh all along! Well, I won't let you get away with keeping the good stuff to yerself.

[satansaloser2005]

Break me teeth on your tough old shanks? Not likely!

Nah, but these wizards ain't real trolls, they just look that way.

I should think so!

They ain't real trolls, you say? What's this madness? In that case, let's find the scrawny sages and pass the hot sauce!

[Brinniel]

Oy, I know we may be trolls, but we be trolls in one ugly situation. Really, banter may be all fun, but it won't do us much good in the long run. Don't ye think it's time we pick out who these nasty wizards are? Or they'll soon enough turn us all into stone. And we won't be gettin even mutton to eat if we all stone.

[Coppermirror]

It's all gone quiet!

See, Brin, you're right as right can be, and we have to catch them wizzards quick. But how are we goin' to do this? There's more of us than any can count.

We need...a plan. We need to out-tricksy wizzards, who are very tricksy accordin' to all.

So let's see what plans we've got so far.

Vol: wants to lick us all, to taste test.
Pom: thinks maybe Leg an' Lom were wizers.
Oz: wants us to try poses out an' says the one who can do it is a wizer.
Rick: wants to lynch Lad...Why's that, Rick?
Gil: wants us all to talk, so's his nose can sniff out the wizers.
Sal: wants us to hold up our feet, so's we can see the wizer's shoes.
Cop: wants us to look fer tricksy wizards by their actions...but changed her mind and wants us to out-tricksy the wizards instead. Hey, that's me. My head still aches.

An' nobody aside from those seems to have a plan in their head.

I'm out of ideas, I am.

[Brinniel]

Pom, McCaber, and Morsul probably gave the most substantial posts early in the Day. Not a lot of substance, but I'll give them points for the effort.

I hate the first Day because it's always the easiest Day for the baddies to hide. We're starting from scratch which means we can typically only identify suspicious behavior in subtleties, and even that can be easily misinterpreted.

As for all the banter- I don't see a problem with some banter; that's part of the fun of Day 1. But when banter goes on and on for several posts without any substance in between, that is a problem. Now, I've seen innocents get a little too carried away with IC posts, but I have also seen baddies use the IC banter as a distraction.

Surely I'm not the only one who will vote early. I'm curious to see how spread out the voting will end up (in timing). Now I know how we all love to wait until the end, but hopefully it won't come to a dozen votes in the final minute... :rolleyes:

[Nerwen]

Pom, McCaber, and Morsul probably gave the most substantial posts early in the Day. Not a lot of substance, but I'll give them points for the effort.

I hate the first Day because it's always the easiest Day for the baddies to hide. We're starting from scratch which means we can typically only identify suspicious behavior in subtleties, and even that can be easily misinterpreted.

As for all the banter- I don't see a problem with some banter; that's part of the fun of Day 1. But when banter goes on and on for several posts without any substance in between, that is a problem. Now, I've seen innocents get a little too carried away with IC posts, but I have also seen baddies use the IC banter as a distraction.
Fair enough, I think we were all getting a bit carried away. As our mods pointed out, it's not often one can be a troll here.

Well, One thing I'm curious about is why Morsul (#24) saw Kath's references to singing and The Wizard of Oz (#5,#13) as possible cobbler-hints.

[Volo]

McCaber, your use of suspicious in post #29 felt somewhat exaggerated. Or was it all just observations on humorous exchanges? Or some as actual interpretations of suspicion?

[Coppermirror]

Well, I need to decide who to vote for, as I'll be voting early tonight.

Trolls who have yet to show up:

Green
Bane
Shaz
Nog

I fully expect that everyone will show up, though. For now I won't vote for any of those four.

Bore: Asks Vol to stop licking him, and claims to have eaten a wizard once.

Brin: Wants to cut out banter. Gives Pom, Cab, and Mors points for effort. Will vote early.

Gil: Wants everyone to talk. Says is a red shirt of Werewolf, and that sometimes his shirts are his trousers and vice versa.

Lad: Wants to eat a burrahobbit . Says we have to fear those who aren't up to no good. Disagrees with Mors and says he wouldn't call something Pom said a suggestion, more like standard first day banter.

Kat: Talks about a green city, spinach, and says that Mors may be trying to distract us by talking more about trolls than wizards.

Lot: Wonders what Kat is doing talking about Wizers of Oz and if that's a hint at Oz being a wizard. Talks about how the only good wizard is a wizard cooked in various styles.

Cab: Makes a quick summary of posts so far. Part banter, part commenting on who finds who suspicious.

Mors: Fairly talkative. Makes a summary for each troll 6 posts after the game start. I would find that odd, but it actually is helpful to know how he sees everyone's usual playing style. Later, he tells Pom that he'll try to avoid kneejerk reactions. Wonders if Kat's comment about the wizard of Oz is a cobbler hint. Then wonders if something else Kat said was to draw attention to the hint. But I don't see the latter there...

Nerve: Says the singing cobblers stuff is all Mors and that she doesn't see much in that herself. Corrects Sal about troll meal priorities. Is curious about why Mors saw Kat as giving possible cobbler hints.

Oz: Is taking a midnight nap.

Pom: Recaps rules. Asks Morsul what it means when he says he usually sees her as suspicious, and says he's been putting effort in but doesn't see where it gets us.

Rick: Says Lad is no good and has plenty of meat on his bones so we should lynch him, and some other banter.

Sal: Has foolproof shoe-checking method of wizard detection, and speaks of the virtues of mutton. Decides to get the hot sauce, after Nerve says the wizards are made of man-flesh.

Vol: Confusing. Proposes licking to determine flavour and find wizards.

There's so much banter that it's going to be hard to get anything out of it, but it's better than nothing.

If I vote soon, I'll be voting for Boro, based on gut feelings. There isn't enough info so far for me to make a better reasoned guess. Unfortunately I'll probably be voting before we get to the substance of the day.

[Nerwen]

If I vote soon, I'll be voting for Boro, based on gut feelings. There isn't enough info so far for me to make a better reasoned guess. Unfortunately I'll probably be voting before we get to the substance of the day.
Unless I've missed something, Boro has posted only-

Blimey, Volo! stop yer lickin' me! If I don't serpose haf of you taste haff as well as I should like and I like less than haff of you haff as well as you would taste!

and

I ate a wizer once. Roastin 'im werent very tastey, too stringy., er it may 'ave been a lizer.

How are you getting even a gut-feeling out of that? Is it the talk of eating us?

[Coppermirror]

Okay, I have to vote immediately, and it's better to vote than not to vote at all. So: ++Boromir. Reasons: gut feeling, and the fact his only two comments had little content. (Downside to this: it's reasonable to assume that he'll post more later, so I can't take the latter into consideration too much.)

And before posting I've seen Nerwen's comment. Just a sec...

How are you getting even a gut-feeling out of that? Is it the talk of eating us?

No, it's not the talk of eating us. I can't even quite put my finger on why. But it's down to Boro, a random vote, or abstaining from voting right now, so Boro it is. I'm aware that it's not the best reasoning.

I won't be back before the deadline, so this is it from me for today.

[Morsul the Dark]

I was going to quote the question but since a fair amount of people are asking.

The reason I see Kat's singing as a possible hint is the song she chose. The "Wonderful" Wizard of Oz.

I's like to subject to this he'e Cou't No wiz is a wondafuh wiz eh?

I'll be here for about 20 more minutes then off to work a double so won't be back for DL may or may not vote since so many people have yet to post.

[Morsul the Dark]

Man... ++Kat

based on what I have up there. Really not strong evfidence but best I can get before leaving for work...

Edit: forgot the "++"

[Bane Mantra]

Is I the only one oo's been finkin' tonight? Everybody knows that wizzards have beards, lads and laddesses. So that's what we've gots ter do, find a troll wiv facial hair and squash 'im (or 'er, fair is fair) into jelly ter spread on some nice, maggoty bread!

Wha'ever would ye lads and laddesses do wiv'out ther cleverest troll, ole Bane, innit?

Anyhow, I'm having problems gauging wizardly magickality through trollish banter and my already-established newness. In my limited experience, more posts are subconsciously associated with innocence on Day (erm, Night) 1, but suffice to say that I'm not going to rely on a generalization for a vote.

[Thinlómien]

Coppermirror and Morsul's votes do count, but please next time post the votes on a separate line. Highlighting is optional.

[Nerwen]

Blimey! Bane's showed 'is ugly mug at last! Didn't I 'ear 'im a-braggin' of 'ow 'e were part ti... something... ti-tan-ee-yum, that were it! I arks yers all, what sort of constitushoolin is that fer an honest stone-troll?

[Nerwen]

Morsul- I see what you mean now. Thin, but possible.

[Ozban]

Yawn! Good aftermidnight everyone.

So the first votes had been cast. Kat 'n' Bore.

Just few thoughts on our lot.

Lad - I'm very suspicous of him. He's mesmerizing, guesome ... spectre-like... (don't take this bad, but personal it is. You butchered me horribly on my first game.)

Nog - Pretty much same as Lad and for those exact reasons. But I'll agree about his logical thinking, could be a great asset.

Kat - Don't know if we ever played together, but i'm mildly concerned about her. Just a gut feeling.

Bore - I see his posts as IC only, nothing bad.

Mors - Really active, might be just his style, might be trying to confuse us newcomers.

Nerve - Somehow unnerving, don't know why.

Sal's and Cop's discussion is not really important in my view.

Then there are those silent ones, which I don't like much.

No significant thoughts on the rest

Let's see how the rest of day goes. But I'm probably not voting soon, still not nearly enough to decide, but perhaps there never will be on day1.

[Rikae]

The only thing more useless than banter is recap of banter. I've never played with Copper before, but I have played with many a wolf (or wizard) who made long, detailed, organized posts with little content. I have a bad feeling about it.

Who was it who asked me why I suspected Zil? I suspect him because I always suspect him, simple as that. He's distracting, hanging around looking evil all the time. I want to lynch him so I don't have to worry about it. :D

[Brinniel]

Okay, so I kinda overslept, so I don't have much time.

So far I'm feeling good about Rikae. She seems the most genuine at least. Pom seems okay as well, for now.

I don't like Copper's vote because Boro has hardly said anything and I don't know how she can get a gut feeling about him based on those posts. I'd hold off on voting her toDay though, because I haven't played with Copper before and don't know her playing style.

Morsul votes Kath based on some weak cobbler suspicions. But wouldn't it be better to vote for a suspected wizard? But I'll let it pass, since in his defense there is so little to go on right now.

I don't like all of Sally's bantering, but then again it is Sally.

My vote toDay will be:

++Nerwen

While I don't feel terribly confident in my vote, she has displayed the most suspicious behavior to me so far. By suspicious, I refer to excessive bantering combined with picking up on comments that she could later use as reasons for an easy lynch (like Morsul's comment on Kath). I realize it's weak reasoning, but there's really not much else to go on and I do generally tend to be pretty wary about Nerwen anyway.

[Nerwen]

[LEFT]The only thing more useless than banter is recap of banter. I've never played with Copper before, but I have played with many a wolf (or wizard) who made long, detailed, organized posts with little content. I have a bad feeling about it.
I don't like it either- however, I have played with her before, and she tends to do this regardless. Though there was rather more of it the time she was a wolf than the times she was innocent.
Edit:x'd with horrible evil Brinniel.

[Nerwen]

By suspicious, I refer to excessive bantering combined with picking up on comments that she could later use as reasons for an easy lynch (like Morsul's comment on Kath).
Excessive bantering:guilty as charged. The other thing: no, I just wanted to know what he was getting at.

[Boromir88]

The good news for ToDay(Night) is the extreme cold has granted me a day off, so I'll be here. Future participation will be as expectexted, not being here last few hours of the DL.




I don't like Copper's vote because Boro has hardly said anything and I don't know how she can get a gut feeling about him based on those posts. I'd hold off on voting her toDay though, because I haven't played with Copper before and don't know her playing style.

Morsul votes Kath based on some weak cobbler suspicions. But wouldn't it be better to vote for a suspected wizard? But I'll let it pass, since in his defense there is so little to go on right now.


Cop's early vote does bebuther me, not because of voting early, but I don't understand what makes my IC banter more gut-feeling suspicious than the rest I do talk about eatin' frequently, but when I do think, Iz usually thinkin bout food.

Morsul's is less buthersom, cuz we see a clear line of logic...er logical amongst troll herds...mmm herds need shepp'erds shepp'erds are some fine dining. Umm oh, Morsul's vote. I wouldn't vote for Kath based on his reasons, but his early vote dispalys his mind and what he's thinking clear enough. It's reasonin' we can track, if you follow me, and not gut-feelings.

Nothin' against gut-feelings, if that's all you've got goin' on, but not all guts are the same. You can't track gut-feelings, it tells what yer stomach's thinkin', not what yer brains are. Ill gut-feelings could be spoiled mutton for dinner. When you use head-feelings, you can at least track bad, good, innocent or guilty reasonin'.

Boils down to we know what Morsul's thinking with his early vote. Can't tell what Cop is.

[Inziladun]

Oy, I know we may be trolls, but we be trolls in one ugly situation. Really, banter may be all fun, but it won't do us much good in the long run. Don't ye think it's time we pick out who these nasty wizards are? Or they'll soon enough turn us all into stone. And we won't be gettin even mutton to eat if we all stone.

Agreed. I can't keep up with such creative banter anyway. ;)

Well, One thing I'm curious about is why Morsul (#24) saw Kath's references to singing and The Wizard of Oz (#5,#13) as possible cobbler-hints.

I was going to quote the question but since a fair amount of people are asking.

The reason I see Kat's singing as a possible hint is the song she chose. The "Wonderful" Wizard of Oz.

I's like to subject to this he'e Cou't No wiz is a wondafuh wiz eh?

Meh, that's a stretch, but as a Day (Night?) 1 vote, maybe not so bad.

Who was it who asked me why I suspected Zil? I suspect him because I always suspect him, simple as that. He's distracting, hanging around looking evil all the time. I want to lynch him so I don't have to worry about it.

Ah, yes. it's mutual, naturally.

++Rik...

Nah, not yet. :p

[Volo]

I think my ears are so full of hair that I can hear only bits and pieces, which is to say I've skimmed through. The case with Kath seems too harsh. To me her posts feel like empty banter - even due to the various more complex interpretations which could be read from them. To my knowledge, Kath can be a very brave player, but currently no other interpretation but troll feels based enough to me. Until further notice that is.

Maybe by lifting Lom and Leg, clues could be found from under them. We don't actually know if Wizers look like trolls, they might be earthworms for all I can say.

If I find no earthworms I'll try to clear my ears of excessive hair.

[Gil-Galad]

Blimey these votes be spread out. Wouldn't that make for a game if we all just voted for the person next to us in a grand display of mass lynching.

My gut feeling person hasn't spoken up enough for me to warrant a vote against them.

Cop -> Bor

I agree with Brin on how the first day is always the worst, and while I see Cop's point on Bor not posting anything to add, I fear if Bor gets voted it is because of that, he would be an easy vote like the fate I befall so many times in the past.

Mor -> Kat

Mor's reasoning is rather picky, but I think he is just trying to justify his gut feeling to his vote. I know that feeling, as mentioned earlier.

Brin -> Ner

Makes an understandable attempt at Ner, but then again first day lynchings is always the hardest. and Ner has had the most substantial input today.

Hate that this is my only chance to vote, and I don't want to add another name to this growing list, I am going to have to say:

++Nerwen

The thing with this game is being careful on what to say, and to note on how the Wizer's and Cobblers will try to bring up other arguments between other players to not be looked at themselves.

[Nerwen]

This may sound like an "omgus" post- but honestly, I think Gil's post there looks really bad. He says he's voting me so as not to "add another name to this growing list"- a list (at the time of posting) of three names in a village of eighteen.

[Bane Mantra]

The thing with this game is being careful on what to say, and to note on how the Wizer's and Cobblers will try to bring up other arguments between other players to not be looked at themselves.



Cop -> Bor

I agree with Brin on how the first day is always the worst, and while I see Cop's point on Bor not posting anything to add, I fear if Bor gets voted it is because of that, he would be an easy vote like the fate I befall so many times in the past.

Mor -> Kat

Mor's reasoning is rather picky, but I think he is just trying to justify his gut feeling to his vote. I know that feeling, as mentioned earlier.

Brin -> Ner

Makes an understandable attempt at Ner, but then again first day lynchings is always the hardest. and Ner has had the most substantial input today

Perhaps they will indeed, Gil.

[Gil-Galad]

Perhaps they will indeed, Gil.

So it begins. I have accepted this "damned if you do, damned if you don't" portion of the game. Nobody likes to be voted for on the first day and as much as I would love to abstain, that would draw criticisms upon oneself.

And in my defence Bane I was just summing up other players reasoning on votes. I forgot how statements can be turned against me.

[Nerwen]

So it begins. I have accepted this "damned if you do, damned if you don't" portion of the game. Nobody likes to be voted for on the first day and as much as I would love to abstain, that would draw criticisms upon oneself.
I know, I know, people who never vote on Day One are a disgrace, aren't we- er, I mean they?

But seriously- Gil, at the point when three people each have one vote, you're certainly not limited to them only, and when you claim you are, it looks like opportunism followed by hand washing.

[Inziladun]

So it begins. I have accepted this "damned if you do, damned if you don't" portion of the game. Nobody likes to be voted for on the first day and as much as I would love to abstain, that would draw criticisms upon oneself.


I can understand wanting to give a vote, even when there's not a great deal to work with. I think your reasoning for doing so seems off though; not wanting to look suspicious yourself.

[Gil-Galad]

I know, I know, people who never vote on Day One are a disgrace, aren't we- er, I mean they?

But seriously- Gil, at the point when three people each have one vote, you're certainly not limited to them only, and when you claim you are, it looks like opportunism followed by hand washing.

Here is how I look at it, Inz threw out a name but was non-commited on it, and the troll that my gut tells me to vote for will throw another name, making it 6 individual names. I am positive more names will get thrown out there and that is the thing. As you said, this is a village of 18 with another 13 possible votes. Day one is for testing the waters, and you being so defensive and afraid that the two votes for you will spell your end reveals something. Are you hiding something Ner? The night is still young and me tipping my hand to you will determine your behaviour now.

The uncertainty will be the death of me, plus I am too nice. The Wizers want confusion and for as many names thrown out to cause discord.

Only one to trust is yourself, and it might be my past experience on day 1 lynchings, but it is too early to call the game Ner, unless you are a panicing Wizer.

[Nerwen]

Day one is for testing the waters, and you being so defensive and afraid that the two votes for you will spell your end reveals something.
It possibly would had I in fact been defensive or expressed such a fear. But as anyone can see I didn't... nice try, Gil.

What I did say was that your vote, or rather the reason you give for it, looks bad. That is still my opinion, and your posting since hasn't exactly helped.

[Nogrod]

"For a couple o' pins," says Troll, and grins,
"I'll eat thee Wizers, and gnaw thy shins.
A bit o' fresh meat will go down sweet!
I'll try my teeth on thee now.
Hee now! See now!
I'm tired o' gnawing old bones and skins;
I've a mind to dine on thee Wizer now."

Two pages of banter... I'm not sure if I'm feeling nostalgic for the good ole times or just remembering why it was soo annoying back then with the huge games when there was much to read but little to chew... :rolleyes:

I don't basically like any of the votes given as yet, if that is any starter. They all look like people wished to justify their votes a bit too much comparing to the little or non-existent evidence there was at the time of their votes.

But even there - and knowing Gil's history - I need to pick out this for the most awkward one of them:
Brin -> Ner

Makes an understandable attempt at Ner, but then again first day lynchings is always the hardest. and Ner has had the most substantial input today. An "attempt"? An "understandable attempt" when it is is "the hardest" Day to get someone lynched? I mean, yes it might be a language issue, but to me an attempt sounds like something you do when you know what you are doing / aiming at... And then, after saying he thinks Nerwen has been "the most substantial" poster today, he goes to vote her as well because he doesn't want to spread the vote...

I hate to be able only to put forth these two slight remarks, but I just read this through in a hurry and have a lots of work to do. I will be back later with hopefully something better later toDay (I will be back).


EDIT: X'd with the last few...

[Gil-Galad]

I suppose so Ner, what said is said. Looking back, no matter what I say or don't say draws debate but that is the heart of this game. I hope others post more to get this rolling. The tension is killing me.

[Nogrod]

Here is how I look at it, Inz threw out a name but was non-commited on it, and the troll that my gut tells me to vote for will throw another name, making it 6 individual names. I am positive more names will get thrown out there and that is the thing. As you said, this is a village of 18 with another 13 possible votes. Day one is for testing the waters, and you being so defensive and afraid that the two votes for you will spell your end reveals something.If only three out of 19 have been voted and there are 15 votes to go saying that you need to keep sure the votes are not spread too wide isn't the most reasonable cause for a vote.

Then again, bringing on some pressure by exactly giving a second vote to someone that early could be reasonable tactics to see whether the dog barks the stick hits...

[satansaloser2005]

My stomach is growling for some man-flesh, but since we ain't yet decided which of us is made of man-flesh, I'll go fix myself a sammich and finish reading through all yer kerfluffle when I have a full stomach. Well, less empty anyway.

[Nerwen]

Then again, bringing on some pressure by exactly giving a second vote to someone that early could be reasonable tactics to see whether the dog barks the stick hits...

Yeah, but he seems to have thought of that one pretty belatedly.

And then there's this-
Are you hiding something Ner? The night is still young and me tipping my hand to you will determine your behaviour now.

The uncertainty will be the death of me, plus I am too nice. The Wizers want confusion and for as many names thrown out to cause discord.

Only one to trust is yourself, and it might be my past experience on day 1 lynchings, but it is too early to call the game Ner, unless you are a panicing Wizer.
What does all that even mean, Gil? I really can't make head nor tail of it- but there are phrases in there I find rather... interesting...

[Boromir88]

Here is how I look at it, Inz threw out a name but was non-commited on it, and the troll that my gut tells me to vote for will throw another name, making it 6 individual names. I am positive more names will get thrown out there and that is the thing. As you said, this is a village of 18 with another 13 possible votes. Day one is for testing the waters, and you being so defensive and afraid that the two votes for you will spell your end reveals something. Are you hiding something Ner? The night is still young and me tipping my hand to you will determine your behaviour now.


I think you're looking more defensive at the moment than Nerwen. Having said that, I'd say you're also the one that many seem to want to jump after and pile on right now...hence the defensiveness.

Partially stirred by you though, with how you're the typical red-shirt, and then assuming everything you say is now getting turned against to. I honestly laughed at your redshirt comment for nostalgia reasons. Maybe I just think myself more ancient than the most, but I would guess I'm one of the few who would remember your 'style'...it's been a long time for sure. It's just making you look not only defensive but paranoid.

Currently, I'm thinking you've been acting a very clumsy troll and it's been such a long time since you've graced us with your WW-presense, I'm interpretting some of this piling on against you as wizards licking their chops at the offerend redshirt. However, I think you're looking in the wrong place with Nerwen (ie you can interpret this as if it comes between voting you or Nerwen, I will vote you).

[Ozban]

Allright, reading through last few hours I'm more and more concerned about this whole"Gil voting Nerwen" thingy. Gil's reasons seemed fishy from the start, especially so soon during the day, while there's obviously much more to come, and Gil isn't leaving our company just yet. Unless he would try just to make things move at last. That I find unlikely though.

Nerwen is now barking, and understandably so. I can't say I am completely sure about her, but as somebody said, right now I can trust only myself. In the end I must agree with Bore (post #86), I'm inclining to vote rather Gil than Nerve, if it comes to choosing between them.

Last thought. Am I the only one, who finds Volo's last post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679945&postcount=72) odd?

[Nerwen]

I think you're looking more defensive at the moment than Nerwen. Having said that, I'd say you're also the one that many seem to want to jump after and pile on right now...hence the defensiveness.
He started that immediately, though- "so it begins", etc. And of course, even before he voted, there was the "red-shirt" routine. I just feel the martyrdom is being a bit overplayed.
edit:x'd with Ozban.

[Bane Mantra]

Last thought. Am I the only one, who finds Volo's last post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679945&postcount=72) odd?

It's bizarre, but I think it's just IC and reflections on players' styles. However, what are your thoughts on it, Oz?

[Gil-Galad]

I think you're looking more defensive at the moment than Nerwen. Having said that, I'd say you're also the one that many seem to want to jump after and pile on right now...hence the defensiveness.

Partially stirred by you though, with how you're the typical red-shirt, and then assuming everything you say is now getting turned against to. I honestly laughed at your redshirt comment for nostalgia reasons. Maybe I just think myself more ancient than the most, but I would guess I'm one of the few who would remember your 'style'...it's been a long time for sure. It's just making you look not only defensive but paranoid.

Currently, I'm thinking you've been acting a very clumsy troll and it's been such a long time since you've graced us with your WW-presense, I'm interpretting some of this piling on against you as wizards licking their chops at the offerend redshirt. However, I think you're looking in the wrong place with Nerwen (ie you can interpret this as if it comes between voting you or Nerwen, I will vote you).

With my time very limited during the final hours (I am typing this between classes) I wanted to stimulate the voting by trying a tactic, and Ner being the most vocal of the votee's I wanted to flesh out her defense. It is hard for me and frustrating to explain then get asked to explain that and so forth. Do I think Ner is going to get lynched? Probably not. With everyone piling on me, I need to point out Bor's comment. My gameplay is insanity. I stir the pot to get things going that typically runs my own downfall, but allows me to judge others. I will attempt to get on moments before the deadline to see the outcome. It has been a long time since I have done this game and by trying to stir the pot I have given everyone an easy vote for day 1. So vote Gil for being Gil, or surprise me and humour my insanity.

I hope I don't get asked to explain this again, I really don't know what to say. Maybe it is my thought process or how I talk but it always turns against me.

[Ozban]

Gil I really don't like your last post, I understand your Insanity idea and I wouldn't discard it as valid strategy, but I don't doubt it might easily get you killed. Madmen are loved in other, real worlds, but not when our trollskins are at stake. And still I can not but to consider you trying to stir us as a Wizzer, hoping that we'll indulge you, for everyone likes to play mad-like at times. Don't take my honesty bad, but my view of you growing ever grim.

It's bizarre, but I think it's just IC and reflections on players' styles. However, what are your thoughts on it, Oz?

As for that, I reread it several times and I'm actually begin' to think it's fine. Odd, yes. Bizzare, but probably just IC. My first worries were about the latter part of that post and Volo perhaps 'playing' turncloak, but it doesn't really seem likely, especially when I consider other IC posts all of us have thrown in.

[Pomegranate]

First round of impressions, I'll be around now for about an hour and then will go to a dance class that ends so close to the deadline I'd rather cast my vote before that.

Things That Have Happened:
Nerwen vs Gil-galad. I'm not inclined to think either of them Wizers based on this dispute. Ner jumps, but reasonably, not only because of a vote for her but because of a very strangely cast vote. And despite saying that, as well as the fact that some of Gil's explanations do indeed seem forged (coming way after the vote and slowly developing more and more elaborate), the paranoia seems more like something a typical first-day-lynch innocent would be like, rather than a Wizard. It is creating discussion and pulling attention towards him. For that, and for the sake of him, after all, being a typical first-day lynch, I'd be willing to give him a pass for the day.

Cop and his vote for Boro seems worse to me than either of the two above. He has to vote early, which is understandable, but basing a vote on two IC posts and saying it's not random feels weird. Boro can be a very strong player, and in case he's innocent getting rid of him early in the game when he hasn't had time to contribute much would seem like a reasonable thing for a Wizard to do. Then again, it is hardly starting a bandwagon, because of the total lack of evidence. But he could've been trusting that people (like Gil) would rather vote for someone who already has a vote, than someone who doesn't?

These are the first two things to come in mind. Will keep reading.

[Rikae]

Some interesting interaction between Gil and Nerwen. Gil seems jumpy, and Nerwen seems a bit... controlled? Restrained? But that's in the normal zone for both of them, so I wouldn't like to vote for either toDay.

I see nothing suspicious about Boro at this point, and Morsul's point about Kath looks honest, but far fetched. What else? Volo's post, odd? Volo is odd.

Right now my unease about Copper is the strongest thing I have to go on, but I don't need to vote just yet.

[McCaber]

McCaber, your use of suspicious in post #29 felt somewhat exaggerated. Or was it all just observations on humorous exchanges? Or some as actual interpretations of suspicion?

Some was exaggerated in jest, like my comment on Nerwen. Some was more serious, like Kath. It depends on the context of the posts I was commenting on. Remember, I only had like 20 posts to go on at that stage.

Right now I like CM the least for spinning out two early IC posts into a vote and totally ignoring all the other bits of IC from everyone else.

EDIT: X'd with Pom and Rikae. Great minds thinking alike?

[Pomegranate]

Vaguely confused about Nog citing a wrong number of Wizards in his wee poem-remake. We are dealing with four Wizards, and I'd like to think that Nog would be a person to check the rules before he starts the game, unless he's trying, by the seeming ignorance, to make us think that he must be innocent. Then again, it's hard for me to think that he'd be a player to use such a strategy. Don't know what to think, so I'll just inform: Nog, four Wizards and a cobbler.

[satansaloser2005]

I honestly believe a WizGil wouldn't be laying it on so thick toDay, or at least so early. Playing victim is a decent wolf tactic when done correctly, but he's been doing it since the start, which is far too much and far too dangerous for a baddie to do. Perhaps he's a cobbler, perhaps an ordo, but I'd be willing to bet cupcakes on him not being a wolf. It just doesn't look right to me.

Plus, giving him more attention is just going to make things worse, as we'll spend our energies focusing on him instead of the ones we're meant to catch.

[Nogrod]

Just popping in with two short remarks before (sadly) going back to work for a while yet...

It is interesting how suspicions: going after them and suddenly disregarding them go in a kind of waves. And I do think that is natural, for people tend to notice things others are talking about and disregard things others don't. So from Gil vs. Nerwen we are now going to Copper.

Saying that I'm just stating the obvious anyone can see from the thread: suspicions lead to more suspicions until some say that it is stupid (or suspicious) to suspect only that / those and soon the next target is found, and suspicions feed into more suspicions for the next one.

Which means not defending or suspecting Cop at the moment...


On another note. What my experience tells me, the wolves... erm... the Wizards rarely stir suspicion or try to be controversial on D1. Well, they can do that, but the safest way for them to duck a random execution on D1 is to stay either low or be very agreeable or fun.

So let's also keep an eye on those who hold their horses and only have nice things to say about other players.

EDIT: X'd with Pom & Sally

[Nogrod]

Pom: thee vs. three? :p

PS. And yes, I kind of think I know "thee" means singular tense, but I didn't remember the word for the plural in that parlance and thought I was in too much a hurry to go and search for the right form...

[Pomegranate]

My gut-feeling of Rikae is good. I had the same of Brin, but her voting post doesn't sit well with me on second reading.

While I don't feel terribly confident in my vote, she has displayed the most suspicious behavior to me so far. By suspicious, I refer to excessive bantering combined with picking up on comments that she could later use as reasons for an easy lynch (like Morsul's comment on Kath). I realize it's weak reasoning, but there's really not much else to go on and I do generally tend to be pretty wary about Nerwen anyway.

Suspicious behavior = being around and enjoying trolling + trying to find something to say to get the ball rolling? Getting the discussion going with substance is hard on the first Day (as Brin herself states) and Ner's comments on Morsul and Cop seem to me just ways of getting some more substance into the game. Which in general is a good thing, and even though I wouldn't say it makes Ner happily innocent in my eyes, I wouldn't see it as suspicious, more the opposite.

[Pomegranate]

Nog, I can't believe I read that wrong, on both occurrences as well! 'Thee' is the old singular of 'you', nowadays replaced by the latter. So it doesn't work anyway but now it's just poetically incorrect rather than substantially weird ;)

[McCaber]

You know what? I will bite on this.

++Coppermirror

for being hasty and suspicion-mongering.

[Pomegranate]

Okay, I think I'll need to go now, so won't have time to search for subtleties in the rest of the posts. I'll need to go with

++Cop

for the reasons stated earlier. Even though I'm not at all fond of Brin's voting post, she was amongst the first to actually try to say something, and I like that, so it will give her a pass for now, since there is someone else that I suspect as well. But I'll be keeping an eye on her.

edit. x/ed with Cab

[Pomegranate]

Agh, now I don't know what to think of Cab! I'd say he's jumping a bandwagon, but he says he crossed with me and Rikae earlier, in which case his suspicions are at least somewhat his own, rather than joining general change of suspicion. And I really need to go. Keep an eye on people going for Cop I'd say.

[satansaloser2005]

Keep an eye on people going for Cop I'd say.

Is that irony I smell, or is someone cooking bacon?

[Inziladun]

Coppermirror--> Boro (1)
Morsul--> Kath (1)
Brinn--> Nerwen (1)
Gil--> Nerwen (2)
Cab--> Coppermirror (1)
Pom--> Coppermirror (2)

Let's see, the rules say the first to reach a total in the event of a tie are lynched, I think. At any rate, there's still some time. But what to make of this?

Is that irony I smell, or is someone cooking bacon?

Yes indeed. An odd thing to say.

[McCaber]

Agh, now I don't know what to think of Cab! I'd say he's jumping a bandwagon, but he says he crossed with me and Rikae earlier, in which case his suspicions are at least somewhat his own, rather than joining general change of suspicion. And I really need to go. Keep an eye on people going for Cop I'd say.

I agree with you, but I will advocate for the lynching of your right to say it!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Two hours to go in the day and Sally finally thinks to call me and let me know the game's started. :rolleyes:

I'll try and make an informed vote by reading the thread, but no promises. :p

[Volo]

I try to bring out these thoughts in the form they came to me when I was rereading the whole Day chronologically and try not to be swayed by the later trend in reasoning.

First, rereading Kath, her responce in #13 is towards Loslote's #12 (in a OC manner) and not to the rather more substantial question in #9. Since trying to seem as clever as that in the first post, as Kath could be interpreted to do, would be near suicidal, I thought her to be a fellow troll, but not responding to the rather straight forward question in #9 in any way feels ingenuine, and could be intentionally upkeeping a mysterious air. Focusing discussion on such clever-like qualities is bad tact for the troll-guys, but since it has been mentioned before I felt fine with elaborating the talk.

Next over to Morsul in #24. His interpretation seems rather sensible to me, but at such a point saying stuff like rather easily holds the implication that the cobbler-accusant could also be the clever-troll. And bringing attention to that is fishy, or thoughtless.

Further off in the same vein, Nerwen in #64. The reaction is rather cold, and I know that's a vague and rethorical expression, thus more based in the gut.
So is Morsul and his theory about "Wonderful" clutching at straws or his genuine impression and reason to vote? To me it also feels a bit far-fetched, but then again, Day1...
Ok that said, Nerwen's #64 feels understandable and still there's a bit too little reasoning. Yet I'd like to hear more thoughts on the subject, especially from N.

Well, Gil and the now infamous #73. He's got my sympathies, due to past games and some personal similarities. Still, the vote felt like joining a ready case with rather slippery or not clearly expressed reasoning.
Spreading out votes on such colossal Day1 can be just as handy for catching Wizers on later Days. They have a slight group-mind compared to others and will have more power to influence votes on Day1, and using that influence will help us pick out the sources. Of course this happens for the price of Wizers potentially picking the Day1 lynch.

Concerning my own play style and post #72: I wanted to imply with the banter that I would be away for a while due to going to the gym and swimming (lifting rocks and having ears stuffed, haha). Obviously it wouldn't be understood, there's no context what so ever, but I have the fault of liking cryptic humour - much to the bafflement of even my flatmates. I solemnly swear that I'd rather learn to be more clear in my expression and that I am be ok with being asked what I was trying to say.

More thoughts, Gil does feel more like himself when he ought to be suspected, but have the luxury of time to reread and re-evaluate. I would for him to stay with us for longer, obviously if he was lucky enough to be on the troll-side.

[Rikae]

I don't like the way Pom and Cab went for Cop at all. Yes, I suspected Cop myself, but this just looks overeager and wrong. I feel like my suspicion made matters too easy for at least one of them. Pom is wishy-washy and self-contradictory: I almost think a wizard might be more careful. As for Cab, I don't know. Would a Cab or Pom wizard throw a fellow under the bus at this early stage? Thing is, I don't like Cab's reasons. I suspected Cop for the classic blunder of "looking helpful", he seems to suspect him for voting early. If you have to vote early, you have to vote early, and the reasons will be thin.

[A Little Green]

Here at last, sorry for taking this long! Starting my commentary on things said already very early, so bear with me if they're already outdated.

Kath: IC posts and suspicion of Morsul.
Inzil: claims to be too skinny to eat and defends Pom. Automatically suspicious, as every troll knows that anything worth having is worth eating.
McCaber, your use of suspicious in post #29 felt somewhat exaggerated. Or was it all just observations on humorous exchanges? Or some as actual interpretations of suspicion?I agree with Volo; that caught my eye as well. These two points especially (the ones quoted above, boobies) looked, at least in my view, like misinterpreting things or overinterpreting them. Speaking about Kath's suspicion of Morsul looks like an exaggeration to me, and the way I interpreted it, Inzil wasn't defending Pom but rather saying that what she had said was reasonable enough but all in all a fairly basic thing to say on Day 1 (in response to Morsul saying she made good points, if I remember correctly). Might be honest mistakes on his part or mine, but I'm also aware that phrasing things in a strong way in a summary is a nice, subtle tool for altering the impression other players have of the posts in question.

Well, One thing I'm curious about is why Morsul (#24) saw Kath's references to singing and The Wizard of Oz (#5,#13) as possible cobbler-hints.
The reason I see Kat's singing as a possible hint is the song she chose. The "Wonderful" Wizard of Oz.

I's like to subject to this he'e Cou't No wiz is a wondafuh wiz eh?I'm not sure about this logic. I can see where he's coming from, but I just don't see it as a strong enough argument for Kath being a Cobbler to justify voting for her over potential Wizers. If that makes sense.

The only thing more useless than banter is recap of banter. I've never played with Copper before, but I have played with many a wolf (or wizard) who made long, detailed, organized posts with little content. I have a bad feeling about it.This is a very good point.

While I don't feel terribly confident in my vote, she has displayed the most suspicious behavior to me so far. By suspicious, I refer to excessive bantering combined with picking up on comments that she could later use as reasons for an easy lynch (like Morsul's comment on Kath). I realize it's weak reasoning, but there's really not much else to go on and I do generally tend to be pretty wary about Nerwen anyway.Funny, actually; I could see a reason to suspect Nerwen but it's nothing to do with any of these Brinn mentioned. I'm more concerned about the fact that she was bantering happily until someone (was it Brinn?) came along and said she disapproved of the banter; Nerwen's next post was all serious and "Yes, you're right, let's get down to business". It is curious that a player as independent-minded as Nerwen did not stop bantering by herself if she thought it was excessive and that it was time to move on. Then again, I disagree with Brinn's reasons for suspecting her and don't suspect her overall (which I never seem to do, regardless of her role).

Whoa. All I can say is, someone needs to flip-flop now that good ol' Lom is turned to stone. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't vote for Kath based on his reasons, but his early vote dispalys his mind and what he's thinking clear enough. It's reasonin' we can track, if you follow me, and not gut-feelings.This makes a lot of sense and makes me feel better about Boro for no good reason.

I agree with Brin on how the first day is always the worst, and while I see Cop's point on Bor not posting anything to add, I fear if Bor gets voted it is because of that, he would be an easy vote like the fate I befall so many times in the past.
Boro can be a very strong player, and in case he's innocent getting rid of him early in the game when he hasn't had time to contribute much would seem like a reasonable thing for a Wizard to do. Then again, it is hardly starting a bandwagon, because of the total lack of evidence. But he could've been trusting that people (like Gil) would rather vote for someone who already has a vote, than someone who doesn't?Two radically different views on Cop's Boro vote; I disagree with both. No, I don't think Boro is by any means an easy Day 1 lynch; quite the contrary, I very much doubt a Wizer in search of an easy bandwagon target would try Boro, since strong, active, reasonable players seldom get lynched on Day 1 without hard evidence (which Cop obviously didn't have). As for Pom's speculation of Wizers wanting to get rid of an innocent Boro early on - probably, but again, I doubt they'd try to make him into a Day 1 lynch even with decent arguments. They'd know it was unlikely to work.

Why, then, did Cop vote for Boro? She might be telling the truth; gut-feeling based on something the rest of us didn't spot, whether real or imagined. If she is a Wiz, I'd see the Boro-vote as a very safe and easy one: unlikely to start a bandwagon (as Pom pointed out) so not leading to the death of an innocent and thus accusations of bandwagoning. The chance of us hitting a Wizer at this point aren't so high as to force the Wizers to try and steer the lynch so actively; they can lay back and relax as long as it isn't one of them.

This may sound like an "omgus" post- but honestly, I think Gil's post there looks really bad. He says he's voting me so as not to "add another name to this growing list"- a list (at the time of posting) of three names in a village of eighteen.Fair point; this part didn't make sense to me, either.

I think you're looking more defensive at the moment than Nerwen. Having said that, I'd say you're also the one that many seem to want to jump after and pile on right now...hence the defensiveness.

Partially stirred by you though, with how you're the typical red-shirt, and then assuming everything you say is now getting turned against to. I honestly laughed at your redshirt comment for nostalgia reasons. Maybe I just think myself more ancient than the most, but I would guess I'm one of the few who would remember your 'style'...it's been a long time for sure. It's just making you look not only defensive but paranoid.Agreed with this as well. Deciding in advance that you're going to be lynched no matter what is not the most fruitful of attitudes, though, and I still don't quite understand the reason behind the Nerwen-vote. Provoking a reaction, fine, that it certainly did, and it's a good strategy, too; I just don't see you doing it unless you also had some reason to pick Nerwen in particular to be tested.

I honestly believe a WizGil wouldn't be laying it on so thick toDay, or at least so early. Playing victim is a decent wolf tactic when done correctly, but he's been doing it since the start, which is far too much and far too dangerous for a baddie to do. Perhaps he's a cobbler, perhaps an ordo, but I'd be willing to bet cupcakes on him not being a wolf. It just doesn't look right to me.Also agreeing with this. Definitely not voting Gil toDay unless something drastic happens to change my opinion.

Keep an eye on people going for Cop I'd say.The girl's got some nerve saying this right after voting Cop herself. :p


EDIT: x-ed with Cab, Shaz, Vol and Rick

[Rikae]

Pom and Cop... male or female? I am confuse.

[McCaber]

As for Cab, I don't know. Would a Cab or Pom wizard throw a fellow under the bus at this early stage? Thing is, I don't like Cab's reasons. I suspected Cop for the classic blunder of "looking helpful", he seems to suspect him for voting early. If you have to vote early, you have to vote early, and the reasons will be thin.

Because when CM voted, there were like 6 others who had mostly vague IC postings (including you, I might add), but immediately picked out Boro as the only suspicious and votable one from that group. Hasty and ill-thought.

[Bane Mantra]

Well, Gil and the now infamous #73. He's got my sympathies, due to past games and some personal similarities. Still, the vote felt like joining a ready case with rather slippery or not clearly expressed reasoning.
Spreading out votes on such colossal Day1 can be just as handy for catching Wizers on later Days. They have a slight group-mind compared to others and will have more power to influence votes on Day1, and using that influence will help us pick out the sources. Of course this happens for the price of Wizers potentially picking the Day1 lynch.



Well, if the Wizzards do pick DayNight1's lynch, what of it? That's the trouble with a game this large - nobody can ever be certain of someone's identity, unless a Clever Troll speaks up about it. But the price, I feel, if not worth it, per se, is inevitable and we should use it to our advantage. Hunt down those that lead to a mislynch and squash 'em inter jelly, as it were.

Concerning my own play style and post #72: I wanted to imply with the banter that I would be away for a while due to going to the gym and swimming (lifting rocks and having ears stuffed, haha). Obviously it wouldn't be understood, there's no context what so ever, but I have the fault of liking cryptic humour - much to the bafflement of even my flatmates. I solemnly swear that I'd rather learn to be more clear in my expression and that I am be ok with being asked what I was trying to say.

That's perfectly fine, then. Just wait 'til I start pulling elaborately mixed metaphors out of thin air. ;)

EDIT: x'd with Rick and Cab

[A Little Green]

I don't like the way Pom and Cab went for Cop at all. Yes, I suspected Cop myself, but this just looks overeager and wrong. I feel like my suspicion made matters too easy for at least one of them. Pom is wishy-washy and self-contradictory: I almost think a wizard might be more careful. As for Cab, I don't know. Would a Cab or Pom wizard throw a fellow under the bus at this early stage? Thing is, I don't like Cab's reasons. I suspected Cop for the classic blunder of "looking helpful", he seems to suspect him for voting early. If you have to vote early, you have to vote early, and the reasons will be thin.I see where you're coming from. I suspect Cop for two reasons - for the helpfulness thing you pointed out and for her Boro vote. Not because she voted early (I do know a bit about that myself) but because it struck me as an easy vote; a throwaway, if you like. Then again, the general suspicion against Cop almost makes me feel better about her, not worse; like you said, Pom and Cab both looked a tad opportunistic. Cab perhaps more so since Pom had to leave and I can see the Cop thing being the strongest suspicion she had. Cab, however, seems to be still around, which makes me wonder why he voted already then.

EDIT: x-ed with Rick, Cab, and Bane

[A Little Green]

Because when CM voted, there were like 6 others who had mostly vague IC postings (including you, I might add), but immediately picked out Boro as the only suspicious and votable one from that group. Hasty and ill-thought.True; but what bothers me most is that she didn't even vote for him because of banter or not posting substance, she voted him on "gut-feeling" when there was hardly anything to base that feeling on. I just don't see that as a genuine vote.

Still, the more she is suspected, the more reluctant I am to suspect her too. I can totally see her as the easy Day 1 lynch we talk ourselves into and curse afterwards.

[McCaber]

Cab, however, seems to be still around, which makes me wonder why he voted already then.

I had suspicions and didn't feel like waiting until the last 10 minutes of the Night to get them hashed out. I don't like last-minute surprises.

EDIT: X'd with LG

[Bane Mantra]

Cab perhaps more so since Pom had to leave and I can see the Cop thing being the strongest suspicion she had.

But then Pom warns us to be suspicious of people voting for Cop, which includes Pom. Don't you find that to be a bit incongruous?

Edit: x'd with Cab

[A Little Green]

I had suspicions and didn't feel like waiting until the last 10 minutes of the Night to get them hashed out. I don't like last-minute surprises.Fair enough - although unless I'm mistaken, it's still over an hour until deadline. For myself, I'm seldom so sure on Day 1 that I'd feel ready to make a decision with that long still to go (provided that I was around until DL, anyway), especially since quite a lot tends to happen during the last two hours.
But then Pom warns us to be suspicious of people voting for Cop, which includes Pom. Don't you find that to be a bit incongruous?I do, as I briefly pointed out in my long post; seriously though, I very much doubt she did that without knowing exactly how incongruous it would sound. It is probably to be disregarded if she was joking; it is more than a bit hypocritical if she was serious, but I'm not sure what that points to, if anything.

[Rikae]

Hm, never played with Bane before.

But the price, I feel, if not worth it, per se, is inevitable and we should use it to our advantage. Hunt down those that lead to a mislynch and squash 'em inter jelly, as it were.


Which is exactly what a comfortable wizard watching innocents lynch innocents would be thinking. :smokin:

Greenie is being very agreeable. It does not become an ordinary troll to be agreeable.

[Rikae]

Actually scratch that, Greenie is picking on Cab a bit. Makes me feel better about her, maybe.

[Loslote]

Sorry I took so long - I got lost in the caves. Did you know some of them have more than one door? What kind of crazy design is that!

*ahem* Moving on.

I feel quite good so far about Greenie and Rikae - they seem to be reacting genuinely, from what I can tell. Bane is quite well-spoken for a newbie - his/her #113 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679993&postcount=113) made sense to me, in a fresh, new kind of way. Pom feels like she's trying to be reasonable and agreeable while actually being nothing of the sort, which makes me raise my eyebrows a bit. I'd have to say she's my top suspect right now.

EDIT: xed since Bane's 117

[Rikae]

++McCaber

[Boromir88]

Top suspicions:

Cop and Brinn pretty much for their votes, but at the same time I hate actually having to make decisions on Day 1, when it doesn't seem like either will be around for the rest of the day.

While I don't feel terribly confident in my vote, she has displayed the most suspicious behavior to me so far. By suspicious, I refer to excessive bantering combined with picking up on comments that she could later use as reasons for an easy lynch (like Morsul's comment on Kath). I realize it's weak reasoning, but there's really not much else to go on and I do generally tend to be pretty wary about Nerwen anyway.

I tend to be wary around Nerwen too...and Rikae...and many others, but it's not a reason to vote for them. I read that as "here are some admittedly weak suspicions but Nerwen's also a pretty scary when she's evil." Everyone's potentially perilous, and it's one thing to be wary of someone, but a cop out to use the "well, she always makes me wary anyway" vote.

Granted I'm not doing much stirring of the pot yet, but Nog seems more commentating and non-committal so far. I haven't an idea on what his thoughts about anyone are, other than making clear he's not taking any stance yet on Gil-galad, or Nerwen, or Cop...just making statements that are neither meant as accusations or defenses?

Who I prefer not to see lynched today...

Gil-galad
Nerwen
Rikae

Gil's explained himself a bit clumsily and much of the reasons people have suspected him look like his own doing in insisting what he says will get turned against him. Definitely bears further watching, but currently nostalgia is blocking reasons for finding his actions are of evil purposes.

Nerwen's reaction to the two votes against her is understandable and look innocent, particularly since the votes themselves aren't good. Brinn's "she had too much fun trolling, besides I'm always wary of her" and Gil's "I don't want to add a name to the growing list."

Read Rikae's posts, then read Nog's, for why I have some misgivings about what Nog has contributed so far. Rikae hasn't said a bunch, but has made concrete statements about what she's feeling towards certain players.

Edit: crossed with everyone since Greenie's arrival, also fixing the quote tags.

[Nogrod]

I very much doubt she [Pom] did that without knowing exactly how incongruous it would sound. It is probably to be disregarded if she was joking; it is more than a bit hypocritical if she was serious, but I'm not sure what that points to, if anything.It feels pretty natural to me that - if she is just a troll that is - after voting and seeing there was another vote to Copper as well, just as the talk around him had started, she felt people should pay attention to it; even if she is herself included. I mean I could have said that if I were in her position.

Then again - and the trouble being - I could have said that also were I a wolf and in her position, just to make myself look considerate. A safe vote would be something a wolf would long for. Maybe a PomWizard thought her vote for Copper was safely reasoned when she sent it, but then seeing Cab's vote made her uneasy and she felt she had to downplay the idea she was bandwagoning, at least in any sneaky fashion?

Okay. Trying to look around for any better ideas...

EDIT: X'd from Lottie onwards aka. this page...

[A Little Green]

Anyway, I've got to go now. Voting for

++ McCaber

because of three things. The major one is his Cop-vote; not that he suspected Cop since I do that too, to a certain extent, but his suspicion of her just seems easy and eager, in a way. I agree with his points, but I'm made uneasy by his apparent lack of doubt in their validity, if that makes sense. The two other things: first, a gut feeling (which I am aware won't be helpful to anyone else), and second, his early-Day distortions of what other people had said. (Which might be just interpretations that are different than mine, though.) By themselves these last two things would not qualify for a reason to lynch anyone; it's more that they add to the feeling I got from the Cop-thing.

Sidenote: if Cab is a Wizer, I'd like a close look on Bane and the way he (or she? Which is it?) tried to point me to suspecting Pom over Cab when I said he was the more suspicious of the two.

Anyway, that's it from me toDay. Good Night!
(Or the other way round, whichever way you prefer.)


EDIT: x-ed with everything on this page and probably some more too! Why are you guys posting so fast?

[Volo]

Brin #67 How come is Rikae genuine. All she's done is troll around cheerfully and preach that banter is useless and banter about banter more so (which is a helpful observation, but only by so much).
Until Rikae #93 and gut feelings. Hard to say about that though, it feels like keeping low and with little reasoning it's hard to judge its genuinity.
Ok, now I'm clearly looking more closely at Rikae, so let's see what else there is.
Rikae #109 and I agree with her defense of Copper. More substance, but still no special genuine vibe.
I've forgot your Day1 strategy (mainly whether you're an optimist or pessimist concerning them), but toDay, you feel like potentially swimming under the radar, which feels somewhat off.

xd with #118 and the rest.

[Inziladun]

DL falls in the midst of the workday, which I should have known would be a pitfall.

I don't like Gil's reasoning, but I've never played with him before, so I'm willing to let him pass for to(Day?Night?).

I'm not particularly keen on going for Nerwen at the moment, so I''ll make it

++Pom

for the vote on Cop, and the odd remark about watching everyone else.

x/d with last three

[Loslote]

I can definitely see where the Cabbie suspicion is coming from...but I don't think I remember a McWolf acting like that. His behavior so far seems more like an ordo than a wolf. A wolf would care a bit more how he comes off, and I don't see this game's Cabbie doing that.

EDIT: xed with Volo and Zil

[Nogrod]

Granted I'm not doing much stirring of the pot yet, but Nog seems more commentating and non-committal so far. I haven't an idea on what his thoughts about anyone are, other than making clear he's not taking any stance yet on Gil-galad, or Nerwen, or Cop...just making statements that are neither meant as accusations or defenses?Hah. I just haven't had time enough to actually think about things this Day but just to skim through and make some fast general comments. You know when I have time I tend to argue this way or that whether I'm an innocent or a wolf (or even a gifted) so it's less about my role than my time.

Which said I'll try to go back checking at least something for the last hour.

EDIT: You guys post fast indeed! *Good old times come to mind*

[Ozban]

++McCaber

I dislike his vote, rather too convenient and opportunistic. And his input up to that strikes me like attempt to make himself seen, yet adding nothing of value. Still we are at Day1 and I never played with him.
As to my previous doubts of Gil. I'd rather watch him somewhat longer. But still is high on my list 'to inspect'.

Xed with everyone since Nog #124.

[Loslote]

I don't suspect Cabbie. I think all three waves of suspicion (against Gil, Copper, and Cabbie) are too easy and, if not fueled by Wizardly trickery, at the very least unwise. I'm going to go ahead and vote

++Pom

because I do suspect her (...him?), and I think this is the most reasonable alternative to the bandwagons I don't agree with.

[Volo]

#58 Coppermirror--> Boro (1)
#60 Morsul--> Kath (1)
#67 Brinn--> Nerwen (1)
#73 Gil--> Nerwen (2)
#101 Cab--> Coppermirror (1)
#102 Pom--> Coppermirror (2) [xd w/ 101]
#122 Rikae--> McCaber (1)
#125 Green--> McCaber (2) [xd w/ 122]
#127 Inziladun--> Pom (1) [xd w/ 125]
#130 Ozban--> McCaber (3) [xd w/ 125, 127]
#131 Loslote--> Pom (2)

Ok, time went by too quickly and most of the votes have been cast. Nerwen I'm not sure about, but Pom feels more genuine (although I haven't gone through her posts as carefully), McCaber is more on the naughty side compared to the others.

xd since 132

[Boromir88]

Well, now there is a counter-Cop wagon, to bus McCaber to the front. At least the voting should be revealing for the next Night. It's hard to determine any alignments right now with no hard evidence (in the form of at least one proven innocent or a proven wizard)...but there will be lots of voting to look at.

[Nogrod]

Firstly (well the latest thought), I'm a bit worried about Greenie (news!). Without being able to really read and delve into this toDay I'm feeling more or less anguished while thinking I need to vote in 45 minutes, not knowing where to look for or where to concentrate my effort, while Greenie seems to have ample time to make detailed and plausible "case" for her vote even if she - according to hr - only came online a while ago and has already left. I know she's bright and sharp (thence not a troll! :)) but it seems a bit too confident what becomes to how she used her time here toDay - the wolves, well the Wizards, know how to use their time unlike us.

Secondly I still suspect Gil for which seemed like he only slowly came forwards with his scheme of testing Nerwen. It is clear that if one tries to test someone one shouldn't say it immediately when voting that "I'm just testing", but with Gil it felt like he only got around that explanation with time (I might need to check that actually to be sure).

Pom I suspect a little, mostly becasue of her careful adding of look at the possible bandwagon after she noticed McCab had voted for Copper as well making her look like a bandwagoner...

Of those earliest votes I'm not yet so suspicious of. As yet.

I'm more bothered by all the people who fly under our radars at the moment... like Volo, Sally, Lottie, Zil... not that I'd have a hunch they'd be wolves, but because nobody notices them (me neither).

EDIT: X'd with a couple of votes etc...

[Nogrod]

Pom I suspect a little, mostly becasue of her careful adding of look at the possible bandwagon after she noticed McCab had voted for Copper as well making her look like a bandwagoner...
A sentence that makes no sense... :(

Let's make it anew.

Pom I suspect a little, mostly because of her careful adding of the idea that we should look at the possible bandwagon for Copper after she noticed McCab had voted for him as well, thus making her look like a bandwagoner...

Hope it makes sense now.

[Boromir88]

I can't see my mind changing much in the next 30 minutes, so might as well go now and see what shakes out...

++Coppermirror

I'm more bothered by all the people who fly under our radars at the moment... like Volo, Sally, Lottie, Zil... not that I'd have a hunch they'd be wolves, but because nobody notices them (me neither).

I agree with these sentiments (plus would add Shasta), but at this point, to dwell and consider those names today would be safe and throwaways. I think particularly in sally, Lottie, and Zil's case. They seem more hampered by time, they are normally not names who stay under the radar...even if they can get entish in taking a while to warm up/get moving. Volo, much about his playing I've forgotten.

With you and me here though, you should also know they won't be able to sit on their hands for long. :p

[Volo]

Ok, Nerwen is the one I find the most suspicious of those who have votes and will vote for her to save McCaber if I can't agree with someone on a more suspicious character. Due to so much submarineing, I don't feel confident about there being a Wizer in the voted lot.

[satansaloser2005]

Two hours to go in the day and Sally finally thinks to call me and let me know the game's started. :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, doll. I'd forgotten you were playing for a bit, or I'd have phoned you sooner. :(

I am highly suspicious of anyone who says "let's be suspicious of anyone who voted X" in the post right after they vote for that person. Why is Pom somehow special enough to be above reproach for voting Cop? I understand the x'ing issue, but it really, really rubs me the wrong way. I'm going to take a quick look at Cabbie before I decide though, as I've not paid any sort of attention to him.

x'd since Nog's #135

[Volo]

++Nerwen
This is a bandwagon. McCaber and Pom are less suspicious and they're up to 3 votes, so this is to counter that. Also, lots of talk, little reasoning.

[Nogrod]

With Cab I'm most bothered about his last answer where he says he voted early because he doesn't like the last ten minute surprises while a) voting hours before the DL, and b) still had over an hour to hang around and post after his vote.

I need to check back about Copper next, as to how bad his vote was to compare to these later developements.

[satansaloser2005]

++Pom

Because I just can't get over her obvious attempt to bandwagon.

Granted, Volo just admitted to doing the same thing, but that'll be an issue we can address toMorrow....


x'd with Nog

[Ozban]

So now McCab, Cop, Nerwe and Pom tie at three votes. Interesting. But I have a feeling much will change before deadline yet.

[Volo]

In my preveous post I my thought that Pom instead of Copper had 3 votes. Copper didn't raise any alarms except for concentrating on something not very helpful.

[Gil-Galad]

Who is yet to vote? This tie is really adding to the tension. 10 minutes to go, hopefully we won't be making history and having a mass 4-troll lynching on the first day.

[Bane Mantra]

Due to so much submarineing, I don't feel confident about there being a Wizer in the voted lot.

I can agree with this reasoning, from a more mathematical standpoint: there are 5 trolls for whom votes have been cast. Roughly a fifth of us. Out of those, there's a 1 in 4 chance that one will be a Wizzard, which results in a roughly 4% chance of lynching a ruddy rotten Wizzard toDayNight.

As I've said, however, there are so many of us that our lynching probability will be low tonight, but DayNight1 isn't about certainty, it's about lynching the most likely to be a Wizzard.

I admit to having a slight handicap toDayNight, as many references have been made to playstyle, and my being very very new doesn't give me an aid in hunting Wizzards. ToMorrow, I'm sure I'll have more to say, analyzing the Wizzards' kill and the voting patterns of toDayNight and such. Is this a cop out? A little bit, I'll admit, but I can promise you I won't cop out like this again.

Pom is my number one suspect, but even then I have little to go on - her bandwagoning and then incongruous statement about watching Cop's voters is very strange, the strangest thing to go down toDayNight.

Also, to avoid confusion, I am male.

x'ed with Oz, Volo and Gil

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Of the four people currently on the chopping block, I feel most bad about -

++Pom

I haven't had a chance to thoroughly absorb the thread yet, so this vote is based a lot on pure gut + bandwagoning. If I'm alive tomorrow, I hope to participate more - I apologize for not realizing the game had started.

[Nogrod]

Okay.

Maybe we are reading different threads - or then I'm losing something - but where did this meme start from that Copper said his vote was not random, or that it was well substantiated somehow? I mean he says it's gut-feeling...

What I find him saying is these:
If I vote soon, I'll be voting for Boro, based on gut feelings. There isn't enough info so far for me to make a better reasoned guess. Unfortunately I'll probably be voting before we get to the substance of the day.
Okay, I have to vote immediately, and it's better to vote than not to vote at all. So: ++Boromir. Reasons: gut feeling, and the fact his only two comments had little content. (Downside to this: it's reasonable to assume that he'll post more later, so I can't take the latter into consideration too much.)
...
But it's down to Boro, a random vote, or abstaining from voting right now, so Boro it is. I'm aware that it's not the best reasoning.

[Nogrod]

I'll add...

++ McCaber

So it's Pom now (first with as many votes) with which I agree - so any further votes could be telling us something.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

DEADLINE.

Please stop trolling. I will double-check the votes and the narration, along with the revelation of the role of the lynchee, will be posted soon (like in half an hour at most).

EDIT: My half an hour became only slightly more than half an hour, but hope it did not destroy anyone's life ;)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Now that the trolls became aware of the threat they were facing (even though it took a bit longer to the exceptionally dumb ones, who began talking only in late night hours before dawn), they started arguing which way was the best in determining who were those Wizards that were hiding in their midst.

"Let's taste each other, an' whoever tastes different, must be a Wizer!" Vol suggested.
So they started licking each other, but since trolls either taste like stone, or they taste rather awful even to other trolls, they soon stopped, especially after the argument became who tastes different or who seems to taste different than others.

"No good lickin' each other," said Oz at last. "Say we all turn around to stand on our heads having arm on us belly singing or reciting. Whoever manages is a Wizzer."

And so they did, and it was a pretty funny sight to see a cave full of trolls standing on their heads, but it was quiet, because trolls seldom sing and they cannot recite, especially when they are standing on their heads with their arms on their bellies. Needless to say, their arms can't sing either, and the Wizards were not so stupid as the trolls thought they would be and did not reveal themselves.

"I know a foolproof way to find out which of us are the good-for-everything, hoity toity wizards," Sal finally exclaimed. "Everyone hold up their feet! Whoever be wearing shoes is the traitor, an' whoever be wearing fancy shoes is a Wizard!"
But sadly, trolls rarely wear shoes, and the Wizards were clever enough to know that. So in the end, the trolls started arguing again and no clear course of action could be decided, even after Gil suggested he could try to sniff the Wizards out. It was really impossible, given the stench inside the troll cave, especially after all of them had held their feet up for some time.

It was Bane who finally came up with an idea that got the attention of others.
"Everybody knows that wizzards have beards," he said. "So that's what we've gots ter do, find a troll wiv facial hair and squash 'im into jelly ter spread on some nice, maggoty bread!"
The reaction he got, however, was not the one he would have expected.
"Bread?" screamed Brin. "Jus' bread? No meat?"
"I'm 'ungry," Mors suddenly said, probably reminded by the mention of food. "Let's just 'ave a dinner an' go to sleep."
"'tis always good if you can eat sum-un," Kat agreed.
"Bu' we 'aven't caught us a Wizzer yet," said Nog, looking more puzzled than usually.
"'ey, wha' if we ate a Wizzer!" Pom shouted.
"It ain't a bad idea," said Bore. "I ate a wizer once. Er it may 'ave been a lizer."
"Oi! I never et a Wizzer," said Cab. "Oi hears they can gobbles down a troll quick as ye loike. Say we gobbles um!"
"Let's get the pot boilin'," said Cop. "I'm tired of mutton."
"Blimey," Nerve agreed, "what self-respectin' she-troll wants stringy mutton to gnaw on when there's man-flesh to be had?"
"The only good Wizer is a dead Wizer," Lot agreed. "Or a roasted Wizer. Or a boiled Wizer. Or maybe a stewed Wizer."
"Bu' who should we roast, or boil, or stew?" Green asked.
"Lumme, if I knows!" Rick exclaimed.
"Pom o'er here looks like she 'as the most fat," said Lad.
The trolls all started shouting on top of each other, and most of all Pom, who suddenly didn't find the idea of having a dinner made of one of the cave denizens that appealing. But so furious and so hungry were the trolls, that before she could try to run or do something, four of them grabbed her and flung her into the boiling water.

First, nothing happened. Actually, only then nothing happened. Pom's body remained floating in the water, totally dead from the shock.

"Blimey," someone said, but then suddenly Pom's body started changing, her skin becoming less stone-colored and her hair lenghtening, and a long beard appeared on her chin. By then, the collective yells of "Blimey!" echoed through the cave.
"Looks like a supper for us! We got you, Wizzer!" the trolls shouted in unison and started feasting.


"Is it mornin' aww-ready?" Shaz yawned, waking up briefly from his overlong slumber.
"Yes, it is, ainnit," the others replied and soon all of them crawled to their corners and fell asleep.


~*~


Dumb and Dead
Thinlómien, "Lom", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1
Legate of Amon Lanc, "Leg", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1
Pomegranate, "Pom", a Wizard, boiled and eaten on Day 1

Dumb and Walking
A Little Green, "Green"
Bane Mantra, "Bane"
Boromir88, "Bore"
Brinniel, "Brin"
Coppermirror, "Cop"
Gil-Galad, "Gil"
Inziladun, "Lad"
Kath, "Kat"
Loslote, "Lot"
McCaber, "Cab"
Morsul the Dark, "Mors"
Nerwen, "Nerve"
Nogrod, "Nog"
Ozban, "Oz"
Rikae, "Rick"
satansaloser2005, "Sal"
Shastanis Althreduin, "Shaz"
Volo, "Vol"


~*~


Night 2 falls. Clever troll, Insomniac troll, Purse-troll, send us your picks. Wizzers, start plotting. Others, sleep.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

As the dawn broke and the trolls crawled into their beds, the three wizards only pretended to go to sleep and left the cave as soon as they dared. They were not very happy, and for understandable reasons - they had first lost their hats and now one of their own.

"This is insufferable!" one of them exclaimed.
"It is time to do something about it," another agreed.
"Indeed! It is time to show these trolls that they should not meddle in the affairs of wizards," said the last one, quite forgetting who had started meddling with whose affairs in the first place. But as wizards are never late, they are never wrong either, so it would be pointless to argue.

With their righteous cause in their minds, the three wizards sat down on a fallen tree and started discussing the best way to act. One drew his pipe (claiming it helped him think) much to the disapproval of another and the third in turn was much too fascinated with the birdsong and the daylight and all the other things he missed sorely in the dark cave full of smelly trolls. Soon they figured out their discussion was not very fruitful, so they decided to follow their noses. The wizard with the keenest smell went first and the others followed in his wake. They crept into the cave, assuming shadowy shapes as only masters of shape can. Their steps were almost as quiet as those of hobbit-feet, but even if they had stomped like stone-giants, there would've been little chance that someone would have woken: the trolls were used to sleeping in the eardrum-breaking noise of trollish snoring.

They went around the cave, trying to figure out who smelled the worst. It was a tough task, as all the trolls stank worse than most things the wizards had ever smelled in their long and eventful lives. Finally, they stopped near one of the sleepers whose smell they considered the foulest.

"What shall we do with him?" asked the first wizard in a hoarse whisper.
"I did not think that far," the second one confessed.
"I have an idea," said the third one. "An idea of a revenge. They boiled one of us, so we boil one of them."
"I am afraid we do not have big enough a kettle," said the first wizard.
"We do not need it," said the third wizard darkly. "One of you stand guard here, the other one follow me. I have a plan."

The first wizard stayed - although he really wasn't happy about the smell - while the second and the third wizard went back out. The third wizard took one of the troll's smaller kettles as they went. He told his fellow to make a fire and disappeared, then came back with the kettle full of water. The wizards boiled the water and then they slowly crept back to the cave with the steaming kettle, cursing quietly under their beards.

What welcomed them was something they did not expect. Not yet very far from the entrance, a sound of running footsteps met them, followed by their colleague running for his life.
"Back! Back away!" he shouted. "There's somebody awake! A troll was standing guard in the shadows, crept right behind me, I did not hear him over all that snoring! I just barely dodged his club!"
The other two wizards hesitated, then a yell from deep in the cave confirmed the first wizard's story:
"Ye won't be a-boilin' no one! Come an' get me, ye walkin' beards!"
The wizards looked at each other. They did not dare to go back and start a fight in the middle of the cave; if all the trolls woke up and saw them standing there, there could be no thinking of escape.

"I fear we cannot do anything more today," the second wizard said at long last. His fellows nodded solemnly.
"I wonder if those creatures are more clever than we thought," added the third. "Come, let us once again blend into shadows. We must be patient. Their time will come."

They left the still warm kettle in the mouth of the cave and disappeared into the darkness.


~*~


Dumb and Dead
Thinlómien, "Lom", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1
Legate of Amon Lanc, "Leg", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1
Pomegranate, "Pom", a Wizard, boiled and eaten on Day 1

Dumb and Walking
A Little Green, "Green"
Bane Mantra, "Bane"
Boromir88, "Bore"
Brinniel, "Brin"
Coppermirror, "Cop"
Gil-Galad, "Gil"
Inziladun, "Lad"
Kath, "Kat"
Loslote, "Lot"
McCaber, "Cab"
Morsul the Dark, "Mors"
Nerwen, "Nerve"
Nogrod, "Nog"
Ozban, "Oz"
Rikae, "Rick"
satansaloser2005, "Sal"
Shastanis Althreduin, "Shaz"
Volo, "Vol"


~*~


Day 2 starts. Wizzers, stop PMing. Everyone, start posting. Those of you who did not vote yesterDay are well advised to vote toDay, or risk a modfire.

[Morsul the Dark]

Woot woot. Great start everyne one wizard down ranger save last night awesome let's keep it rolling.

Sorry for low participation on Night 1 had to work a double... ToNight will be better early plus I'll have a few hours before DL.

Looking over Night one will post comments.

[Inziladun]

Hey, nice job Ranger!

And a good break yesterDay too. Questions: do we have Wizards among the Pom voters? Or among others who may have been trying to save her? Or, very possibly, both?

x/d with Morsul

[McCaber]

Hey, nice job Ranger!

And a good break yesterDay too. Questions: do we have Wizards among the Pom voters? Or among others who may have been trying to save her? Or, very possibly, both?

x/d with Morsul

Well, we know Pom was right about there being at least one who voted for CM.

[Loslote]

And a good break yesterDay too. Questions: do we have Wizards among the Pom voters? Or among others who may have been trying to save her? Or, very possibly, both?

I would say, look most at people who don't try to save her, and are vaguely supportive of those who suspect her, but try to steer the lynch another way. One example comes to mind, which jumped out at me as fishy after I read the narration last Night/Day...

I'll add...

[highlight*]++ McCaber[/highlight*]

So it's Pom now (first with as many votes) with which I agree - so any further votes could be telling us something.

He seems to be in favor of lynching Pom, but he's at the same time trying to push another candidate. As the situation sat, he'd just tied the two with Bane at least both around and still to vote. If he wanted to save a packmate without taking any ridiculous risks, that would be the way to go.

[Morsul the Dark]

Thoughts Part 1

First general thought: While not conclusive obviously I don't think any Pom voters are Wizards with 19 players it would be too early to throw another under the bus very easy to hide in a different wagon.

A Little Green, "Green"- Showed up late but came out swinging voted Cab but levels some suspicion on Pom and Copp may wanted to look innocent suspecting Pom but voted an innocent Cab.

Bane Mantra, "Bane"- Generally considers more posts innocent but will try not to letthe sway him. Ended up not voting. but Pom was top suspect. Playing innocent suspecting pom but not contributing to lynch? use math gained brownie points from me.

Boromir88, "Bore" Found Cop's vote bothersome found mine less so. (going to borrow your red shirt reference later here ;)) Agrees Gil is a defensive. Wants to see voting result to analyze Vote's Cop.

Brinniel, "Brin"- argues against banter, will vote early. Votes Nerwen for general suspiciousness and bantering.

Coppermirror, "Cop"- - Voted early for Boro who had only to two straight up banter posts. Certainly to watch.

Gil-Galad, "Gil"- - His vote on Nerwen is flimsy at best and the whole Red Shirt defense... I've used that to good effect as both an ordo and wolf but to push it as far as this hmmm.... Watching you

Inziladun, "Lad"- Finds Gil's vote odd. Votes Pom more suspicious than other two pushing Pom into the lead seems innocent.

will finish the list in a few minutes brain tired.

[McCaber]

He seems to be in favor of lynching Pom, but he's at the same time trying to push another candidate. As the situation sat, he'd just tied the two with Bane at least both around and still to vote. If he wanted to save a packmate without taking any ridiculous risks, that would be the way to go.

Yeah, I found that really sketchy, too. And not just because it was me he was voting for. But Nog claimed to agree that lynching Pom was what he wanted, while at the same time leavin his options open in case someone felt like swooping in at the last minute to change the game.

[Ozban]

Good Morn-night. Great results so far. Compliments go to the Insomniac.

I agree with Loslote that Nog's last minute vote isn't clear. He supposedly agreed with lynching Pom, but actually cast for McCab eventhough he must have suspected it will change nothing. His vote made Pom 'n' Cab tie at four. Which in light of 'first total reached' rule might seem meaningless, on the other hand he could have genuinely believe some else will vote in that last minute.

As for others, I have a few thoughts on some early Day1 posts, that (in light of Pom being Wizz) may seem suspicious. But I'll elaborate on the morrrow, it's quite late here.

That said, I'll probably not be here much to-day/night. Got busy day ahead of me, but should attend in the evening.

So long.

[Morsul the Dark]

Part 2

Kath, "Kat"- While she was my vote my vote was based on two very vague possibilities just went with limited info because I had to vote early. throws a completely throw away line of suspicion. And then goes silent...

Loslote, "Lot"- Very quiet impressed with Bane likes greenie and Rikae Defends Cab Votes Pom but is only the second vote so could be a vote not for an innocent Cab may have though Cab was a sure lynch

McCaber, "Cab"- -my logic was thin but stronger than Cabs exageration of Kaths suspicion. very suspicious. But I think probably innocent if the votes in his wagon include wizards

Morsul the Dark, "Mors"- Voted for Kath very weak evidence all there was to go on when I had to vote...

Nerwen, "Nerve"- -No vote, Shock:rolleyes: Took a pummeling from gil with poise. Quite a bit of Banter will keep an eye on.

Nogrod, "Nog"- Really laid into Pom and GIl then voted Cab which seemed to contradict a lot of what he'd said before.

[Inziladun]

Well, we know Pom was right about there being at least one who voted for CM.

Yes indeed.

I would say, look most at people who don't try to save her, and are vaguely supportive of those who suspect her, but try to steer the lynch another way. One example comes to mind, which jumped out at me as fishy after I read the narration last Night/Day...



He seems to be in favor of lynching Pom, but he's at the same time trying to push another candidate. As the situation sat, he'd just tied the two with Bane at least both around and still to vote. If he wanted to save a packmate without taking any ridiculous risks, that would be the way to go.

I see your point. I want to look more closely at Nog, but there are certainly others worthy of consideration as well, the McCaber voters among them. Was Rikae the first of those? I don't remember, and don't have time to check right now, but her vote, from what I recall, seemed fairly innocent.

[Morsul the Dark]

Part 3- did I mention I'm so glad there's only 4 pages two of which are practically banter.

Ozban, "Oz"- -Mors - Really active, might be just his style, might be trying to confuse us newcomers.
I don't try that usually just sort of happens anyway...:p
FInds Gil suspicious or more than Nerwen anyway vote's Cab finds his vote opportunistic Another vote like Nog's seemed to be pretty heavily going one way then switched it up

Rikae, "Rick"- Hates the banter, finds cop most suspcious, feels used by Cab and/or Pom votes Mccab finds his vote the most opportunistic. Seems pretty innocent

satansaloser2005, "Sal"-Lot of banter. Defends Gil Votes Pom Seems innocent also one of the first to point out Pom's very weird post...

Shastanis Althreduin, "Shaz"- Showed up late, voted Pom after not having much time to think will get a pass for now.

Volo, "Vol"- finds Nerwen most suspicious and votes her. seems on the level.

*headdesk* thank god...

[Boromir88]

I haven't reread the thread yet...but general statements to frame the start of the new day:

sally looks better than anyone else, I would actually move her into the trusting/innocent/won't vote for category.

Shasta, Inzil, and Lottie look fairly trusty lads and lass as well. Given Pom's weird post "watch the Cop voters" and dare I say a slip, I suppose a wizard mate may have felt a good time to bus Pom's lynch. The problem with that interpretation is it happened relatively quickly and with Nerwen, McCaber, and Cop already with multiple votes, I would expect the wizards to spare Pom for the day, and address it the following day by having 1 or more of them start pushing for a Pom lynch today. So, the Pom-voters look clean to me and not wizard-on-wizard voting.

Those who tried to put forward one of the other candidates (Volo, Nog, Ozban) look the worst, at the start of today.

[Gil-Galad]

Looking at Pom's reaction to when Cab voted the same feels like she paniced at that, almost weirdly. I honestly want to look a Cop now. Here is my theory:

Pom was trying to be a sneaky wizer and gave a vote for Cop, thinking that vote will have nothing to come of it and evade suspicion on Pom and Cop being Wizers. Then Cab voted for Cop. Pom paniced, fearing that if more people vote for WizerCop(keeping the hooliganwizers off the streets har har), Cop will be lynched.

That is my best theory on why Pom had that turn of face, like a plan suddenly backfiring and wanting to draw attention to Cab instead of Cop, as we see how Cab almost got lynched instead.

This leads to Green, Nog, Oz and Rik being added to my suspects list, if they were trying to save their fellow wizer by drawing the votes onto Cab.

Nog is least suspected, since he just threw his vote and it had little effect besides state his intention to suspect Cab.

I just have to look at Green, Oz and Rik closer now toDay if I feel they smell like a wizer, but I won't jump to conclusions. Same goes with Cop, my prime suspect in this plot.

[Morsul the Dark]

Right now Lottie is probably my top suspicion.

Like I said in my recap She was only the second vote for Pom.

She may have thought Cab was a sure lynch and therefore wasn't too worried about voting for a packmate.

I know I said I didn't think Pom had a wizard in the vote mix Lottie's vote position seems the most likely for wizardom.

[Morsul the Dark]

Sorry double post.

IF Lottie is a wizard that MAY clear Nog as Lottie has started steering into him so far toNight

will recheck his posts.

[Coppermirror]

Blimey, wizzers are tasty as can be. :) I could eat 'em all week, I could. An' congrats to our Insomniac troll; they're so clever a troll I can 'ardly believe they're one of us.

*ahem*

Very nice narration there, mods! I like the way you used bits of dialogue from the Day. A bit sad there probably won't be such good lines toDay, with the banter mostly over.

There's a lot to analyse in the posts from yesterDay. Though I thought the odds were good that someone would go for me after my last post yesterDay, I wasn't expecting quite this much, so I'll respond to one or two points now. I'm really tired, so I'll have to come back later to do any proper analysis of the posts and votes from yesterDay.

Thoughts Part 1...

Coppermirror, "Cop"- - Voted early for Boro who had only to two straight up banter posts. Certainly to watch.

The deadline in this game is one where almost every time I'm going to have to vote very early. (Not toDay, incidentally. I can be around for the deadline this time.) I was concerned that I might get targeted for voting early, so well before the game's start I made it very clear in the admin post that that was the situation. So, when I'm looking through the posts from toDay and yesterDay when I get back later, I'll be curious to see if anyone is making a big thing of my vote being an early one.

On Day 1, when all there has been so far is a lot of banter that there doesn't seem to be anything much in for serious analysis, and you have to vote immediately, what are you going to do? The only thing to do, short of abstaining from voting or deciding via random number generator (both of which are things I would hate to do) is to look at each person's posts and judge by how suspicious you feel about each of them. Boro's posts were the ones I felt most suspicious of, so Boro got my vote. I didn't have a lot of choice in voting in that way yesterDay, but I did hope that it would at least stir up some discussion of substance. It leading to a wizzard slipping up and getting caught that very day was rather better than I expected, though!


That is my best theory on why Pom had that turn of face, like a plan suddenly backfiring and wanting to draw attention to Cab instead of Cop, as we see how Cab almost got lynched instead.

Gil, I don't think your theory stands up very well at all. (In fact, it might even be suspicious itself...) If you look through the posts before Pom's vote, a number of other people had already voiced serious suspicions of me. Accordingly, Pom's vote for me could not have been an empty vote for somebody who was not under any real suspicion.

But, I am quite curious about why Pom made that turn of opinion yesterDay too. I'll look at it a bit more later, but I can see a number of possibilities off the top of my head.

Pom could have:
- seen an excellent opportunity to go after McCaber that Day. If he's innocent, then after voting for me, proposing an extra innocent as a target is something in the best interests of the wizzards. They want as many innocents under suspicion as possible.
- or, it could have been that but that she was setting up McCaber for a target toDay rather than yesterDay.
- or McCaber is a wizzard, and Pom felt that the vote bandwagon was making them both look fishy, and she was trying to disassociate herself.
- Pom knew that I'm not a wizzard, so she knew that if I'd got lynched, people would look carefully at those who voted for me.
- ...and because she cross-posted with McCaber, she became the second person to vote for me rather than the first, and could have feared that that would make her look suspicious later on. By trying to back off from me, she could have been trying to prevent danger to herself.

I've considered the possibility that she might have made a genuine attempt to stop people voting from me, but that only makes sense if she thinks I'm the cobbler, and I don't think I said anything which could possibly make her think I was, so I'm discounting that.

I'll have to look at all the possibilities and maybe some more in more depth later when I'm less tired, because there could be some valuable info there on whether or not McCaber is innocent. See you all later.

[Morsul the Dark]

The deadline in this game is one where almost every time I'm going to have to vote very early. (Not toDay, incidentally. I can be around for the deadline this time.) I was concerned that I might get targeted for voting early, so well before the game's start I made it very clear in the admin post that that was the situation. So, when I'm looking through the posts from toDay and yesterDay when I get back later, I'll be curious to see if anyone is making a big thing of my vote being an early one.
.

Yeah the deadline in this game is pretty rough for me too usually falling in my work day. I don't find an issue with your voting early, look at my own early vote. Your vote sticks out for me because you seemed to picked Boro out of a litany of banter posts to vote for.

[Nerwen]

So. Wizgranate's famous post at #103 (http://http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679982&postcount=103) was striking enough to get her Fenrissed out of the blue- I don't anyone was even considering her before that.

It looks like panic, but why? The possibilities I can come up with are (in no particular order):

[1]Cop is innocent and Pom suddenly freaked at realising she might have started an incriminating bandwaggon on an innocent.

[2]Cop is guilty and Pom freaked at realising she might have started a bandwaggon on a packmate.

[3]McCaber is guilty and Pom freaked at the fact that both of them had jumped on the same person.

[4]McCaber is innocent and Pom saw a chance to have it both ways, setting up a second line of suspicion against the other Cop voters. (Without really thinking it through.)

[5]Just after voting, it occurred to Pom she might be helping to lynch the cobbler.


Any of these reasons is still quite weak on its own though- note that 1,2 and 5 carry the obvious objection, "why didn't she think of that before?". Perhaps a combination?
EDIT: formatting.

[Loslote]

A Little Green, "Green"- Showed up late but came out swinging voted Cab but levels some suspicion on Pom and Copp may wanted to look innocent suspecting Pom but voted an innocent Cab

(Underlining mine) Sorry, what? Since when do we know Cab is innocent? The only reason I can think of for you to assume Cab is innocent is if you *know* he is - because he isn't one of your packmates.

Quick disclaimer: I hit the quote button on the selection above before I saw the quote below.


Right now Lottie is probably my top suspicion.

Like I said in my recap She was only the second vote for Pom.

She may have thought Cab was a sure lynch and therefore wasn't too worried about voting for a packmate.

I know I said I didn't think Pom had a wizard in the vote mix Lottie's vote position seems the most likely for wizardom.

...well, that escalated quickly. So...you're suspecting me for voting second. For a wizard. When I knew at the time there were at least three others (Sally, Nog, and Bane) who also suspected said wizard. Were I a wizard, that would be a stupidly risky move for me to pull on a Day 1. Moreover, assuming I did not want my packmate to actually get lynched, what benefit would I have for voting for my packmate as opposed to one of the other *three* possible bandwagons?

All in all, I don't want to knee-jerk all over this thread, but :eek:

[Inziladun]

Right now Lottie is probably my top suspicion.

Like I said in my recap She was only the second vote for Pom.

She may have thought Cab was a sure lynch and therefore wasn't too worried about voting for a packmate.

I know I said I didn't think Pom had a wizard in the vote mix Lottie's vote position seems the most likely for wizardom.

Meh, could be. You'd think she could have avoided voting for a mate entirely though, if she'd wanted. Then again, you could be right and it was a gamble gone awry.

IF Lottie is a wizard that MAY clear Nog as Lottie has started steering into him so far toNight

Yes. along the lines of her vote, she surely would have come up with others to suspect if she and Nog were mates.

So. Wizgranate's famous post at #103 (http://http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679982&postcount=103) was striking enough to get her Fenrissed out of the blue- I don't anyone was even considering her before that.

It looks like panic, but why? The possibilities I can come up with are (in no particular order):

[1]Cop is innocent and Pom suddenly freaked at realising she might have started an incriminating bandwaggon on an innocent.

[2]Cop is guilty and Pom freaked at realising she might have started a bandwaggon on a packmate.

[3]McCaber is guilty and Pom freaked at the fact that both of them had jumped on the same person.

[4]McCaber is innocent and Pom saw a chance to have it both ways, setting up a second line of suspicion against the other Cop voters. (Without really thinking it through.)

[5]Just after voting, it occurred to Pom she might be helping to lynch the cobbler.


Any of these reasons is still quite weak on its own though- note that 1,2 and 5 carry the obvious objection, "why didn't she think of that before?". Perhaps a combination?

Any of those could be the case. Definitely a strange situation. I think #1 is unlikely, as that shouldn't have been a major issue for a baddie.

x/d with Lottie

[Inziladun]

So...you're suspecting me for voting second. For a wizard. When I knew at the time there were at least three others (Sally, Nog, and Bane) who also suspected said wizard. Were I a wizard, that would be a stupidly risky move for me to pull on a Day 1. Moreover, assuming I did not want my packmate to actually get lynched, what benefit would I have for voting for my packmate as opposed to one of the other *three* possible bandwagons?

Like I said, you certainly had other options, so all in all I don't think you're my top suspect toDay/Night.

[Morsul the Dark]

(Underlining mine) Sorry, what? Since when do we know Cab is innocent? The only reason I can think of for you to assume Cab is innocent is if you *know* he is - because he isn't one of your packmates.

Quick disclaimer: I hit the quote button on the selection above before I saw the quote below.




...well, that escalated quickly. So...you're suspecting me for voting second. For a wizard. When I knew at the time there were at least three others (Sally, Nog, and Bane) who also suspected said wizard. Were I a wizard, that would be a stupidly risky move for me to pull on a Day 1. Moreover, assuming I did not want my packmate to actually get lynched, what benefit would I have for voting for my packmate as opposed to one of the other *three* possible bandwagons?

All in all, I don't want to knee-jerk all over this thread, but :eek:
ah but see the reason is all in the timing.

A wizard, I doubt, would be the first to vote for a packmate.

The third would be highly risky as that was the tying vote

The fourth vote was the clincher so it would be odd for a wizard to so readily shove pom across the line.

So if there's a wizard there it's the second vote, you. That's the thinking anyway.

As for innocent Cab I'd think it's pretty clear my interretation was in the form of hypothetical. A theory I ran with with many of the voters for example if nog is guilty cab is innocent.

x
ed withZil

[McCaber]

A Look Back at Pomegranate; or, The Death of a Wizard. Warning: all contents are my subjective reading and interpretation of the text in question.

Post 4: fluff IC. Tells us nothing about motives.
Post 15: rules recap to try and be helpful. Questioning Morsul about his actions in the previous 10 posts and an exhortation to conversation. Seems to be mostly laying groundwork for a defence against a possible Morsul attack later.
Post 92: doesn't suspect Nerwen or Gil after their spat. Comes down much harder on CM. Probably trying to butter up the first two parties and make her seem more reasonable to them by trying to see their posts in the absolute best light.
Post 95: misreads Nog accidentally.
Post 99: likes Rikae's behavior, even though I am about to say the same things and get raged at with the fire of a thousand suns. Contradictory posting is suspicious posting. Does go after Brin a bit, but this line of though is quickly dropped.
Post 100: corrects the mistake she made in post 95.
Post 102: votes for CM for much the same reasons as I did.
Post 103: notices my vote, panics. Why the panic? Was she trying to protect CM for some reason and in that post dissuaded any more wizards from voting that direction?

And that was the last we heard of her.

EDIT: X'd x 4.

[Nerwen]

And, of course, the other big question is: did Pom's comrades bus her or not?

I can't see why she would have appeared obviously doomed to them at any point yesterDay- if there was wolf-on-wolf voting there, it's more likely to have come at a time when it still seemed relatively safe, i.e. from Zil or Lottie. Not that you can count on this- my king, for example, has been known to bus his packmates quite gratuitously, precisely because it "clears" him. Anyway, it seems probable to me that there was at least some attempt to save Pom.
EDIT:x'd since my last post. Edit 2:fixed non sequitur.

[McCaber]

If there was an effort by the wizards to save Pom, it most likely took the form of a more vicious attack against another target. Volo was the only person who actively defended Pom, and everyone else shunted their rage to me or on CM.

[Nerwen]

ah but see the reason is all in the timing.

A wizard, I doubt, would be the first to vote for a packmate.

The third would be highly risky as that was the tying vote

The fourth vote was the clincher so it would be odd for a wizard to so readily shove pom across the line.

So if there's a wizard there it's the second vote, you. That's the thinking anyway
How in Middle-earth does that alone justify your making Lottie top suspect?. We don't, after all, know if there was any wolf-on-wolf voting.

Meanwhile, as I said, it's likely there was some attempt to save Pom, and I think that's where we should be looking first.
Edit: x'd with McCaber.

[Morsul the Dark]

Nerwen may I quote you from another game(I memorized it because it made me laugh)

"Morsul plays in a bubble"

MY logic is sound for me. I have other suspicions but none quite so strong as that of Lottie I shared why, and how I came to that conclusion. If you read my thorough(every player mentioned commented on summed up) you'll see many have suspicious or watching added as an adendum there are some of course less suspicious also noted.

I'm saying my thoughts aloud you may agree or disagree.

I think the answer is helicopters.

[Brinniel]

][1]Cop is innocent and Pom suddenly freaked at realising she might have started an incriminating bandwaggon on an innocent.

[2]Cop is guilty and Pom freaked at realising she might have started a bandwaggon on a packmate.

[3]McCaber is guilty and Pom freaked at the fact that both of them had jumped on the same person.

[4]McCaber is innocent and Pom saw a chance to have it both ways, setting up a second line of suspicion against the other Cop voters. (Without really thinking it through.)

[5]Just after voting, it occurred to Pom she might be helping to lynch the cobbler.
I'm thinking #4 is the most likely possibility. I'd say McCaber's vote would look more incriminating by creating a bandwagon with a second vote than Pom's. If it weren't for that comment, I don't think her vote would've struck me as suspicious, so I don't see why she'd panic because of a second vote. If Copper was guilty, it'd be safer for her to stay quiet; if Copper did get lynched it'd make Pom look more innocent. Situation #3 is possible, but I don't find it very likely and I just can't see #5 happening.

[Brinniel]

As for the Pom voters...

There were already multiple bandwagons against other players and it was only the first Day in a large village, so while I won't completely rule it out, I just don't find wolf-on-wolf votes all that likely. If there was, it'd more probable for it to be one of the earlier two votes. Sally and Shasta would have to be very bold to throw a packmate under the bus like that so early in the game.

[Nerwen]

MY logic is sound for me. I have other suspicions but none quite so strong as that of Lottie I shared why, and how I came to that conclusion. If you read my thorough(every player mentioned commented on summed up) you'll see many have suspicious or watching added as an adendum there are some of course less suspicious also noted.
But Morsul, you've actually described her as your "top suspect", which at this point seems awfully premature when the reasoning is based entirely on her being the second person to vote for a wolf. (At least, if you've got something more concrete, you haven't shared it with the rest of us.) There may of course have been wolf-on-wolf voting yesterDay, but I wouldn't say the situation required it.

[Nerwen]

By the way- I don't think anyone else has pointed this out-
here (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679970&postcount=92) Pom speaks of Cop as a male, which unless I'm very much mistaken is incorrect. That argues against their being packmates (though not conclusively).

[McCaber]

By the way- I don't think anyone else has pointed this out-
here (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679970&postcount=92) Pom speaks of Cop as a male, which unless I'm very much mistaken is incorrect. That argues against their being packmates (though not conclusively).

If we're accepting that as evidence, I don't know either Pom's or Cop's pronouns of choice. It made writing some of my earlier posts rather difficult, I can tell you.

[Nerwen]

If we're accepting that as evidence, I don't know either Pom's or Cop's pronouns of choice. It made writing some of my earlier posts rather difficult, I can tell you.

I actually don't know whether it should be accepted as evidence. It comes under much the same meta-reasoning category as someone being (or claiming to be) ignorant of the rules, the number of villains, or anything else a wolf "ought" to know.

[Nerwen]

Cop, I see that you'd already (#166) given much the same theories about Pom's behaviour that I did a couple of posts later, leaving out, of course, those that assume your guilt. However-

I've considered the possibility that she might have made a genuine attempt to stop people voting from me, but that only makes sense if she thinks I'm the cobbler, and I don't think I said anything which could possibly make her think I was, so I'm discounting that.
Really? Mightn't she have thought that because of the same things that made various other players see you as suspicious?

[Coppermirror]

Back and reading...

[Coppermirror]

Votes from yesterDay:

Copper -> Boro
Morsul -> Kath
Brinniel -> Nerwen
Gil -> Nerwen (2)
McCaber -> Copper
Pom ->Copper (2)
Rikae ->McCaber
Greenie -> McCaber (2)
Inzil -> Pom
Ozban -> McCaber (3)
Loslote -> Pom (2)
Boro -> Copper (3)
Volo -> Nerwen (3)
Sally -> Pom (3)
4-way tie on 3 votes
Shasta -> Pom(4)
Nog -> McCaber(4)

Did not vote: Bane, Kath, Nerwen.
Did not post: nobody.

So that's quite an interesting voting situation, with only two people voting outside 4 main candidates. (And those two voters, Morsul and myself, were the first two voters.) I have the impression that the Nerwen voters may be going under the radar after Pom's mistake (which is connected to the other two candidates yesterDay) so I'll pay some extra attention to them later.

If we're accepting that as evidence, I don't know either Pom's or Cop's pronouns of choice. It made writing some of my earlier posts rather difficult, I can tell you.

I'm a she, and I think the same goes for Pom, but I could be mistaken.

Really? Mightn't she have thought that because of the same things that made various other players see you as suspicious?

I don't see what kind of benefit a cobbler would get out of a vote like that one, although if you think otherwise then perhaps Pom might have thought so too. But I do think it's unlikely she did. Pom wrote a whole paragraph about my vote in her post #92 as set-up, then voted at #102 while saying that she had to leave now. She must have done that without thinking there was anything cobblerish there...but then she notices something back in my posts and changes her mind, right after her vote crosses with McCaber? I reckon that if thinking I could be a cobbler was her reason, she would already have considered it beforehand.

Since Pom was reasonably active yesterDay and nobody seemed to really suspect her before her slip up, analysing her and the way people interacted with her could be fruitful, so I'm going to write an analysis on her next.

[Brinniel]

Nerwen: No vote (does she ever vote on Day 1?) YesterDay she fired back at Gil for his vote against her. While it was defensive, I think her reasoning behind it is justified. ToDay, I do like her contribution so far.

Morsul: Voted for Kath. His vote was early when there was little substance, so I won't hold it against him. When coming to conclusions, I find his logic rather odd, but I think it's really just his playing style which tells us nothing of his role.

Sally: Voted for Pom. Most of her posts are banter, which isn't helpful. But her late vote for Pom makes me inclined to think she's innocent.

McCaber: Voted for Copper. His vote actually didn't stand out as very suspicious to me. But I can see why some might be suspicious because he could've been seen as a baddie trying to get away with an easy vote against someone who was already gathering some attention for her poor reasoning behind her vote. Plus, I agree he voted a bit premature. Due to that statement Pom made after his vote, I think I'm leaning toward him being more innocent than not.

Gil: Voted for Nerwen. Okay, his vote had poor reasoning behind it and I can understand why others find it and his defensive behavior following suspicious. But like Morsul, his playing style does have a habit of looking suspicious regardless of his role.

Inzil: Voted for Pom. His vote might've been the safest, were he a baddie. But again, I think it less likely that there were wolf-on-wolf votes at this stage. And anyway, his behavior doesn't strike me as suspicious.

Nogrod: Voted for McCaber. His careful and non-committed suspicion of Pom is worrying. Based on his posts, it seemed to make more sense that he would vote for her. But then he votes for McCaber while at the same time agreeing that Pom was a good lynch choice. The only thing is that if he did believe the lynch had already been decided, I think it would be safer for a baddie to vote for a packmate. Unless an evil Nogrod truly thought another player would swoop in and vote McCaber and he could save Pom. While that was a possibility, Bane was the only non-voter around at the time, it looked like he was planning to vote Pom, which would've sealed the deal...all the more reason it'd be safer for a baddie to vote a packmate at that point. I'm not sure about Nogrod, but he's definitely one to watch.

Rikae: Voted for McCaber. Her reasoning behind her vote looks genuine to me. From her posts, I like that her opinions are formed by her own impressions. Meaning that she thinks for herself and her thoughts aren't at all influenced by others' opinions, which makes me feel good about her right now.

Volo: Voted for Nerwen. He says he's unsure about Nerwen and that McCaber is on the "naughty side," then later decides Nerwen's most suspicious (over McCaber and Pom) without a reason to explain why. While he might have tied her, it really didn't look like anyone else would vote her at this point. This could be a strategy for a baddie to not make a throwaway vote, but at the same time, avoid participating in a lynch that could be likely to occur. A bit suspicious to me.

Boromir: Voted for Copper. His thought process leading up to his vote seems quite reasonable to me. So far, I don't see any reason to suspect him.

Copper: Voted for Boromir. Would Pom vote for a fellow mate? It's always possible, but I do doubt it. So she's looking more likely to be innocent to me.

Oz: Voted for McCaber. He suspects Gil then votes McCaber out of nowhere (putting him in the lead). Suspicious.

Loslote: Voted for Pom. I don't see anything suspicious in her posts and her vote makes her look even less suspicious. I'm leaning towards probably innocent.

Bane: No vote. He was around less than ten minutes until deadline, then disappeared. Any reason why? His suspicion of Pom could speak in his favor, but then not actually following through with a vote does not. I'd like to hear from him.

Greenie: Voted for McCaber. I think she's the only McCaber voter who had some reservations about him from an earlier post (before his vote). Based on her reasoning and interactions with McCaber, her vote does look like an honest one to me. So far, I'm thinking she looks more on the innocent side.

Kath: No vote. Only posted banter. Some might try to read into it, but I don't think there's really anything to read into. But the question is...where did she go?

Shasta: Voted for Pom. He hardly posted, but his vote which put our baddie in the lead makes it seem unlikely that he isn't innocent.

Phew...that's a lot of people.

[Nerwen]

Nogalysis

#81. (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679955&postcount=81)
Doesn't like votes so far, especially Gil's for me.

#97. (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679976&postcount=97)
Still doesn't like Gil's vote, but partly accepts his explanation that it was a "test".
Then again, bringing on some pressure by exactly giving a second vote to someone that early could be reasonable tactics to see whether the dog barks the stick hits...
This sounds reasonable, but ignores how late Gil's explanation was in coming, and also the wildness of his claim that his "test" had in fact been a success. Hasty reading? A baddie trying to keep his options open?

#98. (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679977&postcount=98)
Explains to Pom (#95 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679974&postcount=95)) that he was saying "thee" not "three" in his poem, and was thus not confused about the number of Wizards.

#97. (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679976&postcount=97)
Discusses the mechanics of suspicion and bandwaggons. Will neither defend nor suspect Cop "at the moment". Warns us all to beware those who "hold their horses and only have nice things to say about other players".

#124. (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680004&postcount=124)
Pom's infamous post (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679982&postcount=103) is "pretty natural" from an innocent, though it could also be the work of a wolf trying to "look considerate".

#129. (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680009&postcount=129)
Replying to Boro's accusation of being "non-commital" (#123 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680003&postcount=123)), says he has only had time to "skim through and make some fast general comments".

#134 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680015&postcount=134), #135. (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680016&postcount=135)
Greenie is suspiciously plausible and over-confident, making too detailed a case for her vote: "the wolves, well the Wizards, know how to use their time unlike us". Suspects Gil for his belated explanation. Suspects Pom "a little" because of her post at #124. Not suspicious of the early voters. Most worried about "all the people who fly under our radars at the moment... like Volo, Sally, Lottie, Zil".

#140.
With Cab I'm most bothered about his last answer where he says he voted early because he doesn't like the last ten minute surprises while a) voting hours before the DL, and b) still had over an hour to hang around and post after his vote.

I need to check back about Copper next, as to how bad his vote was to compare to these later developements.
Reasoning in this post is perfectly valid- in fact I agree with it- however, at 30 minutes to go it is Nog's first ever mention of the player he winds up voting.

#147. (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680029&postcount=147)
Disagrees with the "meme" that Cop claimed her vote was well-substantiated.

#148. Vote-post. (2 minutes before DL.)
I'll add...

++ McCaber

So it's Pom now (first with as many votes) with which I agree - so any further votes could be telling us something.
Okay, this one's really weird. Firstly, despite having been fairly active and having discussed various other players, Nog had mentioned McCaber only once before, and not in a way that seemed to indicate particularly strong suspicion. Secondly, if he agrees with the lynch of Pom, why vote someone else? Thirdly- and most significantly- with this post, unless I miscounted, he is actually tying McCaber with Pom, with the outcome still undecided- even though he says "it's Pom now".

Conclusion: Some of this is standard Nog, like his warning against submarines. Some I would accept as legitimate from a player in a hurry due to RL pressures. Overall, though, I think he looks pretty bad. No smoking gun here, but the whole pattern could well fit either a vacillating cobbler or wolf hoping to save his fellow without committing himself too far.

EDIT:X'd with Cop and Brinn.

[Nerwen]

Nerwen: No vote (does she ever vote on Day 1?) YesterDay she fired back at Gil for his vote against her. While it was defensive, I think her reasoning behind it is justified. ToDay, I do like her contribution so far.
Thing is, I really don't think I was "defensive". I said I thought Gil's post looked bad for what I believe were purely objective reasons.

Which brings me to something else. "Defensive" is, or has been, a bit of a magic word in Werewolf- in fact in ancient times, when we were all less sophisticated, it used to be quite possible for wolves to get innocents lynched by the simple means of (1) attacking them, and (2) labelling any response whatever as "defensive". Well, Gil hasn't played in so long that I think you could say he comes from "ancient times". It strikes me that, if not simply paranoid, some of his comments sound like a rather clumsy attempt at what I used to call the "witchhunt" technique:

...you being so defensive and afraid that the two votes for you will spell your end reveals something. Are you hiding something Ner?

I mean, how do you get that out of:
This may sound like an "omgus" post- but honestly, I think Gil's post there looks really bad. He says he's voting me so as not to "add another name to this growing list"- a list (at the time of posting) of three names in a village of eighteen.

or

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad
So it begins. I have accepted this "damned if you do, damned if you don't" portion of the game. Nobody likes to be voted for on the first day and as much as I would love to abstain, that would draw criticisms upon oneself.

I know, I know, people who never vote on Day One are a disgrace, aren't we- er, I mean they?

But seriously- Gil, at the point when three people each have one vote, you're certainly not limited to them only, and when you claim you are, it looks like opportunism followed by hand washing
–that being all I had said at that point?

[Nerwen]

I'm a she, and I think the same goes for Pom, but I could be mistaken.
She is, and I actually knew you were too– I was just being facetious with that "unless I'm much mistaken". Here's the thing: I do think it's unlikely she would have made that mistake had you two in fact been packmates– at the same time, though, it's really not that advisable to clear a player just through meta-reasoning: you never know what might have been happening behind the scenes. I'm wondering if I should have brought it up in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerwen
Really? Mightn't she have thought that because of the same things that made various other players see you as suspicious?
I don't see what kind of benefit a cobbler would get out of a vote like that one, although if you think otherwise then perhaps Pom might have thought so too. But I do think it's unlikely she did. Pom wrote a whole paragraph about my vote in her post #92 as set-up, then voted at #102 while saying that she had to leave now. She must have done that without thinking there was anything cobblerish there...but then she notices something back in my posts and changes her mind, right after her vote crosses with McCaber? I reckon that if thinking I could be a cobbler was her reason, she would already have considered it beforehand.
Well, yes– I argued that myself here (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680079&postcount=168). But Pom's behaviour there is very weird anyway, however you explain it.

[Coppermirror]

Pom analysis/recap, page 1:

- Pom has the second post, with banter.
- Morsul lists Pom as "tends to be suspicious to me" in his first impressions list.
- Pom recaps the rules, and then asks Morsul about what his statement about her means for how he'll treat her. Then encourages people to post more and get discussion going.
- Morsul replies that it means he'll avoid knee-jerk reactions.
- Morsul says "Pom's suggestion seems to be fairly genuine little information is better than no information." That's a bit odd.
- Inzil comments on the above, saying it was more ordinary Day 1 stuff than a suggestion.
- Nerwen comments in banter-style about Pom's lack of troll-speak giving her a headache.
- McCaber makes a recap post. He characterises Inzil's post as having defended Pom, and Nerwen's as "more suspicion of Pom".

I have to wonder why McCaber was putting that sort of spin on those posts. To me, Inzil's comment had nothing to do with defending Pom, and Nerwen's looked like banter rather than real suspicion. Why the focus on Pom?

Pom, page 2:

- Brinniel gives three people including Pom points for effort. Later thinks that "Pom seems okay as well, for now" when going through opinions, and that was reasonable at the time.

Pom, page 3:

- Pom posts her first round of impressions. On Nerwenvs Gil, doesn't think that it means either is guilty. About Gil, says that he seems more like a typical first-day-lynch victim. Then she goes ahead with saying I'm looking much worse than either of them, with theories about motives.

- Pom misreads Nog's poem as having the wrong number of wizards in, and considers whether it could be a tactic for appearing innocent, as she would think that Nog would check the rules. Then thinks it would be strange for him to use that sort of strategy and that she doesn't know what to think, so will just inform.

This has to be either a strategy to throw mild suspicion on an innocent, or feigned suspicion to hide a wizard-mate. I've no idea which at this point.

- Pom says her gut feeling for Rikae is good, but her feelings for Brin don't hold up so well on second readings, regarding Brin's suspicion of Nerwen. Says of the latter that "even though I wouldn't say it makes Ner happily innocent in my eyes, I wouldn't see it as suspicious, more the opposite".

It's hard to say what this means. Maybe something will pop out later.

- Pom says she has to vote now and so votes for me, saying there isn't time to look for subtleties in other posts. Says she doesn't like Brin's vote and will be keeping an eye on her, but will give her a pass for today as she has another suspect (me) and she likes that Brin was making an effort.

What does this mean for Brin...? I'm inclined to think that it's more likely to suggest that Brin is innocent than not. It looks as if she's saving her up for later or trying to encourage later votes (as the day...night...was young). On the other hand, I can't see anyone else criticising Brin at that point.

- Posts saying she now doesn't know what to make of McCaber, with wonderings about whether he's jumping on a bandwagon. She now wants us to watch those who vote for me. Sally jumps immediately on the latter statement, followed by Inzil and McCaber. (And it didn't go down with anyone else well either.)

- Rikae doesn't like Pom or McCab's votes.

- Greenie thinks Pom and Cab's votes look a tad opportunistic, the latter more so. Later, in response to Bane, thinks that Pom must have known that her statement would sound incongruous.

Pom, page 4:

- Loslote says that "Pom feels like she's trying to be reasonable and agreeable while actually being nothing of the sort" and is her top suspect at present.

- Nog thinks that Pom could easily have made that statement as an innocent, but goes on to say that then again, a wizard could have done that to try to look considerate, worrying that her vote wasn't as safe as she thought and trying to downplay bandwagoning.

- Inzil votes Pom, for the vote and her remark.

- Loslote finds the three waves of suspicion too easy, and votes Pom as she suspects her and this is an alternative to the bandwagons.

- Volo thinks Pom feels more genuine than Nerwen and McCaber.

- Nog suspects Pom a little, because of her remark.

- Sally votes Pom for attempted bandwagoning.

- Bane says Pom is his top suspect, but that he might not vote this time.

- Shasta shows up and casts the deciding vote for Pom, on grounds of gut feelings and bandwagoning.

- Nog agrees with a Pom lynch, but votes McCaber, thinking that future votes could tell us something. That's a bit odd, given that only two people had yet to vote at that point.

So based on the above, I'm more likely to think that Brin is innocent than not. Nog's posts might have been a subtle wizard-attempt to save Pom, but I don't see why he would bother doing so. I'll have to think about this more. Sally jumped immediately on Pom's remark and seemed very innocent all along. It could have been a very canny wizard's tactic to put in the first kick to a ship they thought was sure to sink, but still...drawing immediate attention to another wizard, on Day 1, when there were other candidates for voting? That's risky enough for me to assume she's more likely to be innocent, although I must admit I've never seen a wolf Sally and have no idea how she's likely to behave.

The way McCaber phrased things in post #29 does make me a bit suspicious, but it's not enough to let me draw any conclusions. My impression at this point is that Pom made her remark because she was worried of being seen as jumping on a bandwagon. I still have to work out whether and what that means for McCaber's status.

While looking through I noticed that some people were suspicious of me not just for my vote but for "looking helpful", apparently in post #56 where I recapped things so far. I'd like to point out, as Nerwen did, that that sort of post is pretty normal for me at that point of the game. If all there is is banter, I still look at the banter and try to see if anything stands out. That sort of post is mostly to help me think through things. In post #56, I wasn't able to find anything there of interest during the time I had available.

And now I'm going for a while, because this post took me two hours to write. :(

Edit: cross posted with Nerwen.

[Coppermirror]

Oh, and a correction to my post above. When I said that when Nog voted, only two other people had yet to vote, I was mistaken. It was actually three, which means his choice made a bit more sense.

[Nerwen]

Oh, and a correction to my post above. When I said that when Nog voted, only two other people had yet to vote, I was mistaken. It was actually three, which means his choice made a bit more sense.
Yes, but one of them was me.;)

But that's not the real problem- it's that Nog both speaks of the lynch as already decided: "So it's Pom now (first with as many votes)" and of what "any further votes" could tell us. A real brain-twister, that post is.

[Loslote]

Okay, this one's really weird. Firstly, despite having been fairly active and having discussed various other players, Nog had mentioned McCaber only once before, and not in a way that seemed to indicate particularly strong suspicion. Secondly, if he agrees with the lynch of Pom, why vote someone else? Thirdly- and most significantly- with this post, unless I miscounted, he is actually tying McCaber with Pom, with the outcome still undecided- even though he says "it's Pom now".

You know what? This actually makes sense as cobbler behavior, assuming he thought you, Nerwen, were a wolf. With you as one of the bandwagon options, he ties two others (Pom's and Cabbie's), and leaves your options open (to save a packmate, bus one, whatever you wanted to do).

Of course, this scenario does have a pretty slim chance of being accurate, but even disregarding his hypothetical reasoning about Nerwen, I think Nog's behavior really makes more sense as cobbleric than wizardly.

[Gil-Galad]

Just popping in till I have to leave for classes, The trolls that I want to watch haven't really posted and I was gonna make an argument on Brin to why she voted Nerve and is now a staunch defender of her today, but I answered that question myself because she didn't get to see the rest of Nerve's posts after her vote. So no reason to go in fists a-pumping with that argument.

and Nog being a cobbler totally makes sense, but let's see what he posts. Since he posts late, he can have little or tremendous effects.

[Nerwen]

You know what? This actually makes sense as cobbler behavior, assuming he thought you, Nerwen, were a wolf. With you as one of the bandwagon options, he ties two others (Pom's and Cabbie's), and leaves your options open (to save a packmate, bus one, whatever you wanted to do).

Of course, this scenario does have a pretty slim chance of being accurate, but even disregarding his hypothetical reasoning about Nerwen, I think Nog's behavior really makes more sense as cobbleric than wizardly.
I fear you are right, but I am going to have to vote now as I may not be back before DL, and anyway he does at least look more guilty than innocent to me.

So-

++Nogrod

Volo is another who needs looking at, again for (possibly) trying to save Pom. I will do this later if I have time, but someone else should as well.

[satansaloser2005]

I have returned for a few moments to inform your trolly selves that Boro will not be appearing toDay. He's swamped at work (sounds lovely to me, honestly) and will likely be unable to post.

I haven't read a flipping thing since the narrations (yay!) and I don't have time to at the moment, but I'll be back later with thoughts.

[Inziladun]

Ok, common sense says at least that Cop is unlikely to be a mate of Pom's. There was just no reason for Pom to have voted that way if that was the case.

Looking at it from a saving Pom perspective, Boro voted Cop (third vote), Volo went with Nerwen, and Nog voted for Cab. While it's certainly possible there's a Wizard on the Pom-wagon, I'm making those three the focus.

I see Nerwen's already voted for Nog, and hopefully I'll get time to look at the other two.

[Brinniel]

Thing is, I really don't think I was "defensive". I said I thought Gil's post looked bad for what I believe were purely objective reasons.

Which brings me to something else. "Defensive" is, or has been, a bit of a magic word in Werewolf- in fact in ancient times, when we were all less sophisticated, it used to be quite possible for wolves to get innocents lynched by the simple means of (1) attacking them, and (2) labelling any response whatever as "defensive".
Yeah, I suppose "defensive" behavior does have a history of being seen as a negative. But I don't think defensiveness is necessarily suspicious. It depends on the nature of the vote placed against someone. If the vote is well-reasoned and consistent with the voter's earlier posts, then defensive behavior does look like an overreaction. But if a vote is poorly thought out or random, then being defensive is justified.

In my previous post, I forgot to keep the cobbler in consideration. Anyone could be the cobbler and their vote and/or a baddie's opinion of them doesn't put them in the clear for that role. But I'm not going to worry much about that possibility since the cobbler isn't the easiest to identify, especially if they inadvertently help the village. And the cobbler counts as an ordo; it's the wizards we want to lynch. However, the suggestion that Nogrod could be the cobbler does make sense. His vote doesn't look innocent, but as I stated earlier, it's not necessarily wizard-like either.

[Ozban]

I have just about thirty minutes, so I'll have to make this fast.

I have been looking at Morsul's post so far, and I'm pretty sure I will vote him tonight. But before that I'll review his actions up to now, from my point of view.

First: post #8 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679862&postcount=8) Seems like looking over all our personal playstyles from his point of view. Activity, but really unhelpful. And no banter on page full of banters, builds seeming of genuine desire to help, but the substance is missing. Additionaly Pom is the only one marked suspicious in this post. Is that maneuver to build distance in between himself and a packmate?

Second: post #16

I certainly feel odd being the least IC on the first page:rolleyes:

Could be interpreted as "look at me, Im actually the only one not bantering, but showing some real effort". Suspicious declaration. Well Mors, sorry, but you have done nothing helpful up to that point. Let's see what's next.

Third: post #22 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679881&postcount=22)

From "tends to be suspicious" to "genuine suggestion". Ok, hardly a proof but if we consider, for the sake of argument, that Mors is a Wizz, then this post is really understendable, but also intresting.

Fourth: post #24 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679884&postcount=24)

Seeing Kath as cobbler? This could be passed as confirming reception of cobblers hint, or pointing to cobbler in attempt to start cob-hunt having wizzers a free time as a result.

Fifth: doublepost #59 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679927&postcount=59)
and #60 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679928&postcount=60)

Reminding everyone of Kat, voting her, and signing off. Very safe vote, since nobody would actually vote Kat with such a weak evidence. Nice way to avoid the last-minute mess, staying under radar in the process. And that's for his participation in Day1

I had only limited time to look at Mors's toDay/Night's posts. His recap is intresting, but did not tell me much, at least not anything new.
Lottie's post #169 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680080&postcount=169) is something I totaly relate to. It seems like Mors-Wizz slipping unintentionally.

I like Nerwen's analysis of Pom's panic (#168 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=680079&postcount=168)). My thoughts, when I voted followed the line of Nerw's point 3. It seemed almost clear to me. Now as you summed it up, i'm not so sure anymore. But certainly McCab-wizz is a distinct possibility.

As for suspicions againt me, I understand them, I find Nog's vote suspicious and I can be obviously suspected for similar reasons.

Most likely not gonan appear before deadline, I'm gonna celebrate with friends.
Therefore:

++Morsul the Dark

I hope I made my reasons clear up above.

X-ed since #198

[A Little Green]

I'm back! (Will be able to contribute a bit earlier in the Day toMorrow if I'm still around.)

Firstly (well the latest thought), I'm a bit worried about Greenie (news!). Without being able to really read and delve into this toDay I'm feeling more or less anguished while thinking I need to vote in 45 minutes, not knowing where to look for or where to concentrate my effort, while Greenie seems to have ample time to make detailed and plausible "case" for her vote even if she - according to hr - only came online a while ago and has already left. I know she's bright and sharp (thence not a troll! ) but it seems a bit too confident what becomes to how she used her time here toDay - the wolves, well the Wizards, know how to use their time unlike us.I'm always calmer than you anyway. :p Incidentally, by the time I posted my first post yesterDay, I had already read the thread and picked out the quotes I felt the need to comment on.

And much as I hate to return the favour, Nog, I do agree with those who find your vote post very fishy. Almost to the point of being too fishy, as Lottie points out:
You know what? This actually makes sense as cobbler behavior, assuming he thought you, Nerwen, were a wolf. With you as one of the bandwagon options, he ties two others (Pom's and Cabbie's), and leaves your options open (to save a packmate, bus one, whatever you wanted to do).Even without the Nerwen scheme (which is neat, I admit), Nog's vote could be seen as cobblerish; creating a tie, drawing suspicion on himself, attempting to save a suspected wolfowitz? Could also be a careless Nogzard, or simply a Nogzard unsure of the tally and of who have voted; he didn't necessarily know what the tally was. Or did he? I don't remember and don't have the energy to check.

A Little Green, "Green"- Showed up late but came out swinging voted Cab but levels some suspicion on Pom and Copp may wanted to look innocent suspecting Pom but voted an innocent Cab.Someone (I believe it was Lottie) alread pointed this out - an innocent Cab? Since when did you know that?
McCaber, "Cab"- -my logic was thin but stronger than Cabs exageration of Kaths suspicion. very suspicious. But I think probably innocent if the votes in his wagon include wizardsWait, what? He's probably innocent if wizards voted for him, and yet you suspect Lottie is a wizard because she voted for a wizard?

Looking at Pom's reaction to when Cab voted the same feels like she paniced at that, almost weirdly. I honestly want to look a Cop now. Here is my theory:

Pom was trying to be a sneaky wizer and gave a vote for Cop, thinking that vote will have nothing to come of it and evade suspicion on Pom and Cop being Wizers. Then Cab voted for Cop. Pom paniced, fearing that if more people vote for WizerCop(keeping the hooliganwizers off the streets har har), Cop will be lynched. This is an interesting theory but as Cop herself pointed out, she was suspected by quite a few others too so voting her at that point would have been quite risky and Pom, I believe, would have known that.

[3]McCaber is guilty and Pom freaked at the fact that both of them had jumped on the same person.I think that is possible (which might have something to do with the fact that I still find McCaber somewhat suspicious). At any rate, I find that likelier than Cop being her packmate. It is of course possible that we are vastly overinterpretating that comment of Pom's and wasting our time analyzing it.. :rolleyes:

If there was an effort by the wizards to save Pom, it most likely took the form of a more vicious attack against another target. Volo was the only person who actively defended Pom, and everyone else shunted their rage to me or on CM.True; and I'm not quite sure whether that makes Volo look better or worse.

Kath: No vote. Only posted banter. Some might try to read into it, but I don't think there's really anything to read into. But the question is...where did she go?This is Kath we're talking about. I'm surprised she showed up on Day 1 at all! :p


EDIT: x-ed with Ozzy

[A Little Green]

Right now I feel the worst about Morsul, Nog, and Cab. I doubt all three are evil, though. Morsul and Cab would be a weird pair, as would Cab and Nog. And I have a nagging feeling that we might well be dealing with a wolf pack of, say, Brinn, Volo and Ozban. :rolleyes:

[Brinniel]

Looking Innocentish
Sally
Rikae
Copper
Greenie
Shasta

Feeling Okay About
McCaber
Inzil
Loslote

Not Sure
Nerwen
Morsul
Gil
Boromir
Kath

Will Keep an Eye On
Nogrod
Bane

Looking Suspicious
Volo
Oz

X-ed with Greenie

[A Little Green]

Looking Suspicious
Volo
Oz
And I have a nagging feeling that we might well be dealing with a wolf pack of, say, Brinn, Volo and Ozban.:rolleyes:

[Volo]

I've relicked Day1 without having time to read what has been said toDay, thus also trying to keep a cleaner impression on yesterDay's dynamics.

General chronological observation:
Cop #52 "There's more of us than any can count." This doesn't feel entirely genuinely said. Numbers feel like an advantage against the Wizers.

Speaking of advantage: Cheers to the Insomniac and to those who spotted Pom (no thanks to me there...)!

Ner #57 brings attention to Cap for the first time. Nothing incriminating, just laying pressure to a new area.

The only thing more useless than banter is recap of banter. I've never played with Copper before, but I have played with many a wolf (or wizard) who made long, detailed, organized posts with little content. I have a bad feeling about it.
Rik #66 Suspects Cap with what feels to me like more conviction than the suspicions raised before that. The outcome of this post strengthens the series of Cop suspicions and leads to the votes.
Rik repeats her strong suspicion in #93.

Ner, meanwhile stays ambigous in #68.

Eventually Rik #109 diminishes her suspicion on Cop, but the damage is done. Strategic affecting of opinions to lead to a possible lynch? Genuine, or maybe preparing a trap? Anyhow, these posts feel most influential of yesterDay, on second glance. Something here smells.



I had gathered other impressions but unfortunately today has been really busy and somewhat stressing. At the moment I'm hosting a couple of friends after work. I'll try to return to the game a few hours before the end of the Day.

[A Little Green]

In all seriousness, though, I'm not sure what to think of Ozban's analysis of Morsul. While I agree with pretty much every point he makes, he seems to make the points with an assumption that Morsul is evil. It's as if he has decided the outcome already before doing the analysis. Then again, I've seen innocents get fixated in that way too, so I don't know.


EDIT: x-ed with Volo

[Brinniel]

Considering I was able to stick around longer, I was hoping to see the thread more active by now. But I will have to vote very soon.

Looks like we won't be hearing anymore from Oz. Oz at least gives better reasoning for his vote toDay compared to yesterDay. Morsul does have some posts that look off, but then again it's not necessarily off behavior for Morsul. Morsul can make an easy vote for a baddie, but I can just as easily see an innocent being suspicious of him. Oz's vote doesn't make me any more or less suspicious of him.

[Inziladun]

I still get confused, but we're in Night 2 now, right?

So anyway, looking at yesterNight's voting:

Cop--> Boro (1)
Morsul--> Kath (1)
Brinn--> Nerwen (1)
Gil--> Nerwen (2)
Cab--> Cop (1)
Pom--> Cop (2)
Rikae--> Cab (1)
Greenie--> Cab (2)
Me--> Pom (1)
Ozban--> Cab (3)
Lottie--> Pom (2)
Boro--> Cop (3)
Volo--> Nerwen (3)
Sally--> Pom (3)
Shasta--> Pom (4)
Nog --> Cab (4)

Gil's vote looks like a potential easy bandwagon attempt.

Pom's vote makes it unlikely Cop is a Wizard.

Rikae's vote for Cab looks fairly clean.

Greenie's vote could be seen as bandwaggonish, but she reasoned it pretty well.

Ozban put Cab in the lead, and his vote looks worse than the first two.

Lottie followed me, which to me makes her an unlikely fellow of Pom's. There was just no reason I can see that she would have done that as a mate.

Boro's vote for Cop tied him with Cab. The rules state the first person to get the highest number of votes is lynched. If Boro
is a Wizard, he must have counted on someone helping him there.

Volo went for Nerwen, tying her with Cab and Cop. What I said about Boro applies, except that this to me indicates that Boro and Volo aren't likely to both be Wizards, assuming both knew the rule about ties.

Sally put Pom at three also, which gave us a four-way tie, with Cab the lynchee at that point.

Shasta put Pom in the lead, which looks pretty solid for him.

Nog put in a late vote for Cab, tying him with Pom. Could have been a last ditch effort to save Pom, maybe hoping for someone else to follow him.

Just based on the votes, Nog looks the lost likely to have tried to save Pom, followed by Boro, and lastly, Volo.

x/d with all since #202

[Nogrod]

A nice 12-hour workday is over and I need to make groceries and make some very-late dinner... but just a fast eyeing of the thread reveals some people seem to be questioning my vote late on D1 - and even voting for me based on it.

So just trying ot make a few things clear before that behaviour becomes too far-spread.

Those who have played with me know well enough that when a wolf I have no problem throwing a mate under a bus if it makes me look good in the early stages of the game (I know the seers oftentimes want to check me so that kind of an "heroics" might just postpone the seer for looking at me too early).

So why on earth - if I were a packmate of Pom - did I do what I did? That would have been soo unnecessary an attempt (the possibility of it going down the drain aka. Pom getting lynched anyway would have been high indeed while risking myself) while the other option (making sure Pom gets lynched and I get the glory for it) would have been so much more smoother. I would have been a very stupid wolf

But as I didn't know whether Pom was a wolf or not - or whether anyone else is or is not - I had no other chance but to work on my own suspicions and hunches. Like we all trolls must.

So I was pretty much okay seeing Pom lynched as I suspected her somewhat (well you rarely are "okay" with a lynch on D1 when everything is such a mess), and as the first one to have gathered the four votes at that point she would be on the chopping block anyway, whatever I would vote unless someone came forwards at the last moment... and that's what I wanted to see, that if there would be a prince Charming to come for her rescue at the last moment. That could have been a jackpot (not that I trusted it would happen, but with my vote I created a chance for it).

Okay.

More later as I get home and get something to eat.

[McCaber]

Ok, I need to leave for class soon which means I need to make my voting choice for toNight now. And I have to say, from here Rikae's sudden turn after Pom's and my votes looks rather fishy. She did her best to turn everyone's attention away from Pom and onto me, despite that our votes and reasoning were basically identical (and on line with what Rikae herself had posted just ahead of that). To me, that behavior reads like being able to make points against a fellow wizard while getting an innocent lynched at the same time. Maybe I'm too close to this to see really objectively on it, but as I'm short on time and nothing has really jumped out at me toNight as wizard-sign,

++ Rikae

I probably won't be back before DL.

[Gil-Galad]

I feel like I need to point this out and ask for others to keep an eye on it, but something is bugging me about Brin and Nerwe. Just that Brin voted Nerwe, then when I voted the same I got the most attention. I had to explain my reasoning later to defend myself since I couldn't say "Its a secret test" at first which would ultimately defeat the secret part of the test. Now Brins posts for toDay are giving Nerwe all her trust and making my vote be the bad guy.

Could be that it bugs me more then it should, but past players know that my gut usually has a good chance of being on to something and getting me killed in the end.

Xed with Cab

[Brinniel]

So I was pretty much okay seeing Pom lynched as I suspected her somewhat (well you rarely are "okay" with a lynch on D1 when everything is such a mess), and as the first one to have gathered the four votes at that point she would be on the chopping block anyway, whatever I would vote unless someone came forwards at the last moment... and that's what I wanted to see, that if there would be a prince Charming to come for her rescue at the last moment. That could have been a jackpot (not that I trusted it would happen, but with my vote I created a chance for it).

This sounds like typical Nog, which makes me think a bit better of him.

Now Brins posts for toDay are giving Nerwe all her trust and making my vote be the bad guy.
I certainly don't trust Nerwen, though at this point I no longer find her all that suspicious. Which is why I placed her in my "Not Sure" category.

[Brinniel]

I'm still wary of Oz, but I'd like to hear more from him.

So my vote goes to:

++Volo

From my earlier post:

Volo: Voted for Nerwen. He says he's unsure about Nerwen and that McCaber is on the "naughty side," then later decides Nerwen's most suspicious (over McCaber and Pom) without a reason to explain why. While he might have tied her, it really didn't look like anyone else would vote her at this point. This could be a strategy for a baddie to not make a throwaway vote, but at the same time, avoid participating in a lynch that could be likely to occur.

That's all from me for toDay. The good news is I'll probably be around for the deadline toMorrow.

[Coppermirror]

Okay, here's the first part of my opinions on people. I'll split this up because it's likely to take some time.

Bane: He commented ominously on Gil, and pointed out to Greenie the incongruity of Pom's vote with what she said, thinking she hadn't considered it. Later on, Pom is his top suspect by far, but he decides to abstain from voting on account of newbieness. He seems pretty sensible, but the lack of voting concerns me.

Shasta: He voted Pom, making that the deciding vote. That was important. However, I don't think it says anything at all for whether Shasta is innocent. From either side, that was a good move to make. He didn't know the game had started until late, so can't blame him for lack of posting.

Sally: Is looking so innocent that I'm really worried that she's a wizard fooling us all. Went for Pom after her slip, and thought that a wizard Gil wouldn't have been laying things on so thick on Day 1.

Nog: I agree that he's the most likely to have attempted to save Pom, and that the chances are from his behaviour that if so, he's far more likely to be a cobbler than a wizard. But if - if - he's the cobbler, is it really a good idea to lynch him toDay instead of trying for a wizzard?

There were some non-committal comments, but he did express some suspicions. And, reading through his comments, I can imagine them all potentially coming from an innocent. As for the vote, I understand that someone might want to create a tie and see what happens, and on the face of it it's not terrible behaviour, but that time if someone had swooped in to try to save Pom, it could easily have lead to another person's lynching. So...I'm on the fence about Nog and hope to come to a conclusion soon. Still thinking about it.

[satansaloser2005]

++Nerwen
This is a bandwagon. McCaber and Pom are less suspicious and they're up to 3 votes, so this is to counter that. Also, lots of talk, little reasoning.

This? This is still the most disconcerting thing I have seen anyone say all game (and it's a game that includes Morsul, so that's saying something :p). Intentionally starting a bandwagon and admitting to doing so is just never going to sit right with me. Especially given that Pom was a wizard, this looks like an attempt to save a packmate that simply didn't work.

A Little Green, "Green"- Showed up late but came out swinging voted Cab but levels some suspicion on Pom and Copp may wanted to look innocent suspecting Pom but voted an innocent Cab.

Gil-Galad, "Gil"- - His vote on Nerwen is flimsy at best and the whole Red Shirt defense... I've used that to good effect as both an ordo and wolf but to push it as far as this hmmm.... Watching you

First of all, an excellent point on Gil, good sir. There's playing the victim and then there's standing outside the window with a salt shaker and a violin, acting like a sad old lady so the little piggies will let you come in and eat them. Gil really seems to be doing the latter to me. Of course it leads to some hilarious mental images (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh11A41klL4), though the clothing in question would then be more of a light-ish red (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adaM1AwloSo)....

However....I'm sorry, but how do you know McCaber is innocent again? I'll feel like quite an idiot if I just did that thing where I ask a question I shouldn't ask, but this seems horribly out of place to me (and I believe Lottie's already mentioned it anyway, so it's not like no one's noticed). There are only two ways you can know he's innocent: Either you're the seer or you're a wizard. I like to think you'd be more cunning as a seer, though this definitely lacks finesse regardless of which is your role. However, a wizard would be more able to take risks (having guild members to carry on and all that), so I'm leaning that way.

If there was an effort by the wizards to save Pom, it most likely took the form of a more vicious attack against another target. Volo was the only person who actively defended Pom, and everyone else shunted their rage to me or on CM.

A fair point as well. As noted, Volo went overboard and overstated on trying to prevent a Pom (and McCaber) lynch. Suspicious indeed.

By the way- I don't think anyone else has pointed this out-
here (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=679970&postcount=92) Pom speaks of Cop as a male, which unless I'm very much mistaken is incorrect. That argues against their being packmates (though not conclusively).

Not necessarily. I'm still not sure if Captain of Despair is male or female. Then again, that's because Mac bussed him/her right away..... :rolleyes:

But that's not the real problem- it's that Nog both speaks of the lynch as already decided: "So it's Pom now (first with as many votes)" and of what "any further votes" could tell us. A real brain-twister, that post is.

Another interesting point. It seemed like an attempt at fishing for votes, although there weren't many voters left at that point (and as stated, two of them were Nerwen and Kath, so there was very little hope they'd show up). Nog doesn't seem that dangerous to me at the moment, however, and I really do need to keep my brain focused on my own observations, lest I be swayed into voting someone I didn't previously think wise.


A list in a moment.

[Loslote]

Alright. I have to go to work, and I won't be back until after the DL, so I'll go ahead and

++Morsul

Because I think he slipped when he assumed/knew Cabbie is innocent, and while I have more concrete suspicions on Nog, I also happen to think Nog is a cobbler, not a wizard, so I'd prefer not to vote a suspected cobbler when I could vote a suspected wizard.

[satansaloser2005]

Suspicious:
Volo - for that whole "I'm creating a bandwagon" thing
Gil - for being far too much of a martyr to be legitimate
Morsul - for assuming Cab's innocence

Hmmmm:
Nogrod - for his post late yesterDay
McCaber - Pom's reaction to his vote (one she'd seen it) strikes me as incriminating, though I could be reaching
Shasta - he would totally do that to one of his mates, no question (nothing else though at the moment)

No strong feelings:
Greenie
Brinn
Dun
Nerwen
Oz
Rikae

Leaning innocent:
Cop - it seems unlikely that Pom would do what she did if Cop were her mate

Will not vote toDay:
Boro - not going to be here anyway, so it doesn't seem sporting
Kath - at risk of modfire, and nothing to go on anyway
Bane - at risk of modfire
Lottie - speaks sense, at least for now



x'd with Trollottie

[Coppermirror]

McCaber: I just do not know about him right now. It could be the case that he's a wizard and that's why Pom freaked out, or that she was opportunistically trying to point the finger at him and look innocent herself. A little bit of what he said on page 1 makes me suspicious, but not enough to tip the balance to guilty.

He said that his vote for me was "for being hasty and suspicion-mongering". Hasty, when I'd already said I'd be voting early? Suspicion mongering, a bit hard to do on such little evidence at that point. However, earlier on in #94 his explanation for suspicion sounded a bit better. I do have to agree with something Greenie said about him not stopping to consider non-guilty possibilities, though.

ToDay he said that it's most likely that the wizards yesterDay voted for him or me. That would be a more sensible tactic than defence. And he ends up voting for Rikae on account of perceived backing off from her suspicions yesterDay. I'm by no means writing McCaber off as innocent, but I won't be voting for him toDay.

Rikae: Pom had a good feeling about Rikae, as did several other people. If Rikae is a wizard, I'd say that McCaber probably isn't, and vice versa, given the way things have played out. Rikae claims to have been suspicious of me for "looking helpful" in a post earlier, which as I don't think we've played together before is something I could see someone thinking of. Is a bit suspicious of Greenie for being agreeable, but then thinks at least Greenie was criticising McCab.

Now, Rikae hasn't posted a huge amount, but overall as I've looked through the posts just now I've felt less suspicious of them, and I'm a bit troubled about McCaber's vote. Not enough to vote for him.

Boromir: He ended up voting for me fairly late on in the day because of disliking my vote, and also disliked Brin's vote. ToDay, his post #162 looked pretty sensible to me, with a plausible theory of Pom's wizard-mates not bussing her, and more likely targets being those who tried to put forward other candidates, noting Volo, Nog, and Ozban.

His vote yesterDay could have been an attempt to save Pom himself, however. Can't really draw a conclusion about him, especially as he won't be here to vote toDay.

Nerwen: Is probably aware that if Nog gets lynched and is innocent, people will look carefully at her toMorrow. That means she's a bit more likely to not be a wizard. I may take another look at her posts before deadline. I think it'll take a long time and that I won't be wanting to vote for her toDay anyway, so I'll move on to something more productive.

Greenie: Hard to analyse, but time is getting short (at the snail pace rate I analyse things) and since I don't think there was anything that would make me consider voting for her toDay I'll skip her for now.

Loslote: feeling quite good about her, but I haven't had time to look through her posts individually. As I don't think there's any chance I'll be voting for her, I'm skipping her for now.

Right now I am considering Volo and Morsul, for the reasons given by Sally and Loslote, but I have yet to read through all of their posts myself, and will start doing so now.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Problem with Internet at home. Can only get on from phone. Will not be voting today - cannot read thread. Don't lynch me. Bad idea. Hopefully fixed toMorrow.

[Gil-Galad]

Volo has been one that has been playing rather... Sloppy. This could mean that Vol has no role and thus little interest, or trying to play it super low if given a role. The bandwagon comment and bringing Nerwen back up to a potential lynchee is unsettling.

Thus for toDay, I am going to have to say:

++Volo

If he turns out to be an Ordo, then I will have to go back to my initial suspect of Brin. We shall see toNight as I won't be back on until right before the deadline.

[Coppermirror]

Er, and briefly a few other people first before Morsul and Volo. Just from impressions, not from considering their posts carefully, since time is getting on. I may come back to the people I've skimmed over later on, if I have time.

Inzil: I'm not worried about Inzil, for once. Doesn't mean he's innocent, but I don't recall him doing anything suspicious, and my gut feelings are of innocence.

Brin: Might have been targeted by Pom, in which case she's a bit less likely to be a wizard. I didn't find her explanation for her Nerwen vote unbelievable. Overall, no strong feelings about her guilt or innocence, but I'm leaning towards the innocent side.

Kath: Kath who? Come back, Kath!

Gil: Took a stirring the pot tactic yesterDay. I don't think I've played with him before, so it's hard to know how to interpret that tactic. The one thing that makes me suspicious of him toDay is that he decided that Pom's actions make more sense if she was backing off from a packmate after an empty vote gone wrong, which doesn't make sense for reasons that have been pointed out. Was that a genuine suggestion or pot stirring?

Edit: cross-posted with Gil

[A Little Green]

Greenie's vote could be seen as bandwaggonish, but she reasoned it pretty well. Actually I cross-posted with Rikae's vote, so I thought I was the first to vote McCaber.

Ok, I need to leave for class soon which means I need to make my voting choice for toNight now. And I have to say, from here Rikae's sudden turn after Pom's and my votes looks rather fishy. She did her best to turn everyone's attention away from Pom and onto me, despite that our votes and reasoning were basically identical (and on line with what Rikae herself had posted just ahead of that). To me, that behavior reads like being able to make points against a fellow wizard while getting an innocent lynched at the same time. Maybe I'm too close to this to see really objectively on it, but as I'm short on time and nothing has really jumped out at me toNight as wizard-sign,This is, I think, a shrewd point. I probably can't vote McCaber toDay since he makes so much sense to me!

I feel like I need to point this out and ask for others to keep an eye on it, but something is bugging me about Brin and Nerwe. Just that Brin voted Nerwe, then when I voted the same I got the most attention. I had to explain my reasoning later to defend myself since I couldn't say "Its a secret test" at first which would ultimately defeat the secret part of the test. Now Brins posts for toDay are giving Nerwe all her trust and making my vote be the bad guy.Also a good point, and something I might want to look into. (Especially seeing as those two ladies are the players I've always had most trouble reading. Them and Inzil, that is.)

Shasta: He voted Pom, making that the deciding vote. That was important. However, I don't think it says anything at all for whether Shasta is innocent. From either side, that was a good move to make.Might be just a different opinion on what's a good move for a wolf, but for me, giving a fellow a deciding vote that way seems insane. Especially coming from someone who had hardly had time to post at all and who therefore could have gone for anyone without seeming inconsistent. So yeah, giving Shasta a pass for the moment.

Intentionally starting a bandwagon and admitting to doing so is just never going to sit right with me.The thing is, you can't lynch anyone without multiple people voting for the same person. What killed Pomzard yesterDay was, in effect, a bandwagon. We tend not to call it that because it worked out well for us, but that's essentially what it was. So yes, I think that in our great adversity to bandwagons, we tend to forget they can be pretty useful too.

Which is not to say that I agree with Volo's vote for Nerwen. I never could read her so I have next to no idea whether to suspect her or not, but I definitely don't think she's our best bet toDay.


EDIT: x-ed with Gil and Copper

[Kath]

Hello! I'm here! Quick deadline check - from the timing of this post I have 2 hours yes?

Off for a readthrough. :-)

[satansaloser2005]

Hello! I'm here! Quick deadline check - from the timing of this post I have 2 hours yes?

Correct.

[Coppermirror]

Correct.

Oh, thank goodness. I read the timezones wrong and thought there was only half of that to go.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hello! I'm here! Quick deadline check - from the timing of this post I have 2 hours yes?

Off for a readthrough. :-)

Just affirming that it indeed is correct :) And as a general reminder, that votes should be cast before the XX:01 time.

[Nogrod]

You guys do post. I would have been soo happy about this a few years ago but now with little time to spare it kind of makes it seem more like a hopeless mountain to climb. :confused:

Still one whole page to read... but here and reading... back soon.

[Rikae]

Well, just first impressions (yes, I'm late, which proves I'm not a wizard):

First of all, I'm kicking myself for that "a wizard would be more careful" business yesterday! Seeing Pom & Cab's votes I was sure there was evil afoot, and my first instinct was to blame Pom. I had the post half typed up, then went "nah, too sloppy to be a wizard". :rolleyes:

If I recall correctly it was Nog who mentioned that Pom was panicky about being in a possible bandwagon, which was a sensible statement and I almost said so (again). In fact, it was more sensible than the speculation I see about Pom's panic today: that is, as a wolf she would be jumpy about the possibility of looking suspicious, and her first response to Cab's apparent bandwagoning was "this makes me look bad!" which, of course, it did. I doubt a wolfish Nog would cast Pom in such a bad light at that point when he could have ignored it. I also doubt he would have cast his late vote in such a way as to draw negative attention to himself in a last-ditch attempt to save a packmate. Also Pom's #95 about Nog naming the wrong number of wizards - which he didn't, anyway - is odd. Why is she jumping on a reason to make Nog look more innocent, though she words it in the least conclusive way possible? Could just be a wizardish interest in a remark about wizards, spun into something semi-substantial but non-committal. Could also be an attempt to make a packmate look innocent. I'm not leaning in that direction, though.

I'd rather leave both Nerwen and Nog alone for toDay. They are talkative and sooner or later, if evil, could slip up; if not, they're helpful to have around.

Cab, your vote looked opportunistic, so the reasoning was secondary. My first suspicion on Cop was thin but all I had to go on at the time, but (as I was hoping) the reactions to it were informative.

Looking at Greenie: she comes off as very agreeable yesterDay, and goes after Cab at the point when people were wondering whether he or Pom looked worse for bandwagoning against Cop. She defends Pom slightly. I can't say if it's wizardish or not at this point.

Bane and Nog are the first ones arguing against Pom:

Pom warns us to be suspicious of people voting for Cop, which includes Pom. Don't you find that to be a bit incongruous?

It feels pretty natural to me that - if she is just a troll that is - after voting and seeing there was another vote to Copper as well, just as the talk around him had started, she felt people should pay attention to it; even if she is herself included. I mean I could have said that if I were in her position.

Then again - and the trouble being - I could have said that also were I a wolf and in her position, just to make myself look considerate. A safe vote would be something a wolf would long for. Maybe a PomWizard thought her vote for Copper was safely reasoned when she sent it, but then seeing Cab's vote made her uneasy and she felt she had to downplay the idea she was bandwagoning, at least in any sneaky fashion?

Ok, he's wishy washier than I remembered about it, but it makes sense.

Inzil was the first to vote for Pom. I don't find it particularly innocentish: at this point she didn't seem very likely to be lynched.

Oz's vote for Cab (#130) looks quite bad to me. At this point advancing a Cab wagon would seem possible and desirable to a wizard (assuming Cab is innocent, and Pom's reaction to him makes me think so). He uses reasoning others have put forward, and reiterates suspicion of red shirt Gil (to look consistent, and as a possible easy lynch in the future?)

Nog continued to argue against Pom in a couple more posts when he could have easily let it drop. Makes him look better to me.

What is the point of Oz's #142, I wonder? Points out who is tied (Cab, Cop, Nerve and Pom) and " I have a feeling much will change before deadline yet". Well, yeah. Something seems fishy here. It's like he's trying to draw someone's attention to the need for a certain vote.

Now, today, Oz comes in with a case against Morsul based entirely on yesterday's posts. Almost as if he, oh, wrote it during the night, not thinking that the night's events, or today's posts, would give him any new information.
I had only limited time to look at Mors's toDay/Night's posts.
Then he votes - a fairly safe vote if I'm not mistaken.

Also, for the record, I don't hate banter. I just find recapping banter suspiciously pointless, and when I'm asked to be a troll, I do it my way. :p

Ok, for reasons stated above:

++Ozban

[Coppermirror]

Morsul

Talks about how he usually suspects Pom, and later says that "Pom's suggestion seems to be fairly genuine little information is better than no information." I found this a bit odd.

He goes for Kath about her Wizard of Oz comment. I'm not sure whether there's anything in that. Votes for her, and on the evidence so far it wasn't an unreasonable vote.

Like many others, he thinks that it's not likely that wizards voted for Pom.

In #164 he's suspicious of Loslote because of her being the second Pom vote, theorising that she could have felt secure in a McCaber lynch. But, I don't think that's likely, given how many people were suspicious of Pom and how quickly things were going. In the end, the votes were close, so people voting really shouldn't have treated their votes as throwaway. Even so, I haven't looked at Loslote's posts in depth myself.

In #172 he presents a theory on the vote placement, which isn't awful divorced of context, but which I think forgets that a wizzard wouldn't know in advance how the voting would go.

A Little Green, "Green"- Showed up late but came out swinging voted Cab but levels some suspicion on Pom and Copp may wanted to look innocent suspecting Pom but voted an innocent Cab.

That could be an innocent's mistake, or a bad slip. I'd be reluctant to vote for him only on that slip.

Ozban analyses his posts and decides to vote for him.


Volo

#55 - questions McCaber.
#108 - a bit hard to follow...
#126 - agrees with what he describes as Rikae's defence of me.
#132 - Is unsure about Nerwen, thinks Pom feels more genuine than McCaber, whom she describes as more "naughty".

Then suddenly...

Ok, Nerwen is the one I find the most suspicious of those who have votes and will vote for her to save McCaber if I can't agree with someone on a more suspicious character. Due to so much submarineing, I don't feel confident about there being a Wizer in the voted lot.

++Nerwen
This is a bandwagon. McCaber and Pom are less suspicious and they're up to 3 votes, so this is to counter that. Also, lots of talk, little reasoning.

There's a lot of flip-flopping about here. But this bit might actually be the most likely attempt to save Pom. But...would a wizard really do it this way, actually talking about saving her?

#205 - appears to suspect Rikae on the grounds of influential posts yesterDay.

General chronological observation:
Cop #52 "There's more of us than any can count." This doesn't feel entirely genuinely said. Numbers feel like an advantage against the Wizers.

It's a reference to the narration. :)

Anyway, I'm finding it hard to pick out the wizzards. Roughly in order, these are my current suspicions.

Suspicious:

- Volo, for the attempt to save Pom and a number of inconsistencies before he voted.
- Morsul, for a few odd things throughout toDay and yesterDay.
- Gil, for going for me toDay on grounds I don't think make any sense.
- Nog, for vote placement yesterDay.
- McCaber for a number of things mentioned in post #218.

Uncertain:
Boromir
Shasta
Bane
Nerwen
A Little Green
Kath
Rikae

Feeling relatively good about:
Loslote
Brin
Sally

And then there's Ozban, whom I somehow seem to have forgotten about almost entirely until now. :eek: Epic failure on my part, how could I do that...

Edit: crossed with Nog, Rikae.

[Kath]

Comments on me:
I fear I have misunderstood something given how many people commented on my post about the Wizard of Oz yesterDay. Someone said me not replying was suspicious. Even had I been there I wouldn't have known what I was replying to - what did I miss?

Ah it was Volo who said my failure to reply was trying to intentionally be mysterious. He would have undoubtedly noticed my absence and knows my playing history. This is odd to me.

Pom:
Mentioned the Gil/Nerwen debate and determined both were innocents. Thinks Cop's early vote for someone who is usually a valuable villager is suspicious. Says Brinn is suspicious for voting someone who was trying to get discussion going. Thinks Nerwen isn't suspicious. Went 'oh no! bandwagon!' after STARTING the bandwagon! Well I can see why she was lynched now!

Votes:
Cop --> Boro (gut feeling, little content)
Morsul --> Kath (Cobbler hints <-- this I don't get!)
Brinn --> Nerwen (excessive banter and picking comments to use for lynch material)
Gil --> Nerwen 2 (no reasoning, says she has most input but won't add another name?!?)
McCaber --> Coppermirror (for being hasty and suspicion-mongering)
Pom --> Coppermirror 2 (focusing on Boro's IC comments but ignoring others)
Rikae --> McCaber (for the Cop bandwaggon)
Greenie --> McCaber 2 (overeager Cop suspicion and misrepresenting what people said)
Inzil --> Pom (for telling people to watch those who vote Cop, after voting for Cop)
Ozban --> McCaber 3 (opportunistic vote and not contributing much)
Lottie --> Pom 2 (some suspicion of her, no suspicion of the others on the block)
Boro --> Coppermirror 3 (for their vote - this brought the votes to a tie again)
Volo --> Nerwen 3 (anti-the-others-bandwagon and little reasoning - this was bringing an old name back in, she hadn't had votes for quite some time)
sally --> Pom 3 (blatant bandwaggoning)
Shasta --> Pom 4 (puts her in the lead - wasn't labelled as a crosspost so was a choice)
Nog --> McCaber 4 (for voting early and hanging around - knew this was a vote that wouldn't affect the lynch)

Pom dies and is a wizard (yay!).


Yesterday:
I think 'suspicion-mongering' is harsh for Cop, who voted very early amidst a lot of banter.

I was interested to see in the early banter of yesterDay that within Mors' seemingly empty list there were a couple of items of note. He said Brinn is 'fairly low key so will watch' - does this mean that she is under the radar so we need not to forget about her or is there vague suspicion there? Pom was also there as 'always seems suspicious to me'. I have no knowledge of their previous games so if there is history there perhaps this makes sense, otherwise perhaps interesting given the lynch yesterDay.

Rikae and the wizards turning into gifted's thing ... attempt to start conversation?

Ozban posted a very useless 'suspicion' list. I mean, there were plenty of unhelpful recapping posts where all they showed were literally shortened version of what was said with no analysis so this at least was better, but it just went 'everyone is suspicious'. Non-committal. Does come out with own thoughts later.

Nerwen hinting that if Cop does a lot of re-capping posts she is more likely to be a wolf. Good laying of ground-work by a wolf to pick up on later, can see what Brinn meant.

Gil and Nerwen mini-fight probably not an issue. Gil always dies early precisely because of exactly what he did yesterDay. Nerwen overreacts to this kind of playing.

Rikae faintly defends Pom - saying a wizard would surely be less wishy-washy.

Greenie suspects Nerwen for such different reasons to Brinn, she seems to then end up with suspicion of Brinn too! Crazy suspicion triangles going on. Thought Cop could be a wizard with the Boro vote because there is no way a bandwagon would have built up - I agree with this.

Had found myself worrying about Volo. There seemed to be a lot of looking at what everyone else had done and not giving much away. Then suddenly he comes out with big bold statements which made me feel a lot better about him.

Quick thoughts on yesterDay coming up then will read toDay.

EDIT: Crossed with everyone since my last post.

[Coppermirror]

At the moment, the people I'm considering voting for are Volo, who has the most inconsistencies, and maybe Ozban or Morsul. Ozban's sudden votes look very fishy to me, and there are a number of things that worry me about Morsul. I don't think I'll vote Nog. I am a bit concerned about Gil but unless someone has a good argument, I don't think I'll vote for him toDay. I'm still suspicious of McCaber, but I don't know if it's enough to vote for him.

Ozban

#87, #91 - concerned about Gil's vote, finds him suspicious.

Says nothing else that I can find until

++McCaber
I dislike his vote, rather too convenient and opportunistic. And his input up to that strikes me like attempt to make himself seen, yet adding nothing of value. Still we are at Day1 and I never played with him.
As to my previous doubts of Gil. I'd rather watch him somewhat longer. But still is high on my list 'to inspect'.

#158 - finds Nog's vote suspicious.
#200 - turns up with analysis of Morsul and a Morsul vote. It's not a bad analysis, but I am left wondering what his opinions about other people are, and I'm not sure it's enough for the vote. I really would have liked to know more about what he was thinking. He hasn't been one of the most talkative players, by any means. Both times, his vote has been sudden. That worries me the most.

Edit: crossed with Kath.

[Kath]

So yesterDay.

Well it's blindingly obvious why Pom was lynched. That whole 'I've just voted for Cop but now that everyone else has voted for Cop you should find them all suspicious' business ... oops moment from a wolf there. That said, she's not wrong. Looking at Cop voters I think is a good idea. Cop's vote was early. All there was was banter. Duh it's going to be a bad vote.

So on that front: McCaber, Pom and Boro

However, as Pom was a wizard, not sure how likely it is that either of those others would be. Boro was bringing the votes to a tie but as it's first to the highest number of votes its not a bold move. McCaber being the first ... may have felt like a safe vote but then would Pom have followed that vote up if McCaber were a wolf? But that phrase 'suspicion-mongering' from McCaber I still don't like.

Am still worried about Volo having re-read my thoughts. Don't like that he was suspicious of me for possibly deliberately failing to respond to a comment on me being Cobbler-ish. Also he did spend nearly the whole Day not giving strong opinions on anything. Will see if looking at toDay changes my mind on that.

[Gil-Galad]

Gil and Nerwen mini-fight probably not an issue. Gil always dies early precisely because of exactly what he did yesterDay. Nerwen overreacts to this kind of playing.



this kind of playing

I like this because it makes me feel like a raving lunatic, and everyone should read this.

Also, enough with the "Gil gave no reasoning" assumption. I did give reasoning, you just chose not to accept it or claim there is no reasoning for my reasoning.

*runs off wailing his arms with nothing on but his red shirt*

xed with: Sir Kath the not appearing in this film.

[Morsul the Dark]

So my using a hypothetical is getting me votes... Oh well. C'est La vie.

Will read the last couple pages more in depth just scanned them quick.

[Inziladun]

I think I should probably go ahead and vote.

Based on what Nog has since said, I don't think I'll go for him toNight.

Boro apparently can't be here toNight (something I'd missed), so I don't want to vote for him when he hasn't had an opportunity to explain his vote yesterNight.

I still think Volo's vote the least suspicious among he, Nog and Boro. Now he has two votes, one of them Gil. Interestingly, Gil also was the second vote for Nerwen YesterNight. As part of his reasoning for voting Volo, he cites the latter's "bringing Nerwen back up to a potential lynchee". When he himself voted for Nerwen? :rolleyes:

So, two straight bandwaggons. That gets my radar going.

I could vote for Ozban too though. The Morsul vote toNight looks rather fabricated. Coupled with his putting Cab in the lead yesterNight doesn't help him look any better.

x/d with all since # 229.

[satansaloser2005]

The thing is, you can't lynch anyone without multiple people voting for the same person. What killed Pomzard yesterDay was, in effect, a bandwagon. We tend not to call it that because it worked out well for us, but that's essentially what it was. So yes, I think that in our great adversity to bandwagons, we tend to forget they can be pretty useful too.

This is true, but he didn't say, "I don't think McCaber and Pom are guilty, but I think Nerwen is." He specifically said, "McCaber and Pom are....up to three votes, so this is to counter that." The candidates presented to him were not to his satisfaction, so he offered another one. Nothing wrong there in theory, but given that he voiced his opinion so strongly and that the "less suspicious" candidate he tried to prevent lynching was a wizard....well, you can see where that's going.

It doesn't feel like he was lobbying for a guilty candidate. It feels like he was lobbying for a candidate he wanted.


x'd with Gil, Morsul, and Dun

[Inziladun]

After quick deliberation, Gil may be acting too careless for a Wizard. So...

++Ozban

and hope for the best.

[Nogrod]

Okay then.

I do think both McCaber (on #210) and Gil (on #211) managed to make themselves look more innocent than I had thought of them earlier on = I had found them both pretty suspicious, and to a degree still do, but am a bit less happy about my suspicion right now.

Morsul's "'blunder" looks pretty bad - and an easy way out for the Wizards if it is an innocent one (that he really meant it in a speculative way). The same I think goes for Volo. They seem to be both the "easy targets" toDay anyone can vote.

I'm afraid of many, like Brinn, Rikae and Greenie who would be playing perfectly were they wolves: open and yet above serious suspicions.

And I'm still curious about why Bane didn't come forwards at the last minute yesterDay... Did I put you in a too narrow a straight you decided to abstain from voting?

Nerwen I feel looks a bit too premeditated, like she knows what she is talking about and where she wishes to draw the attention and on what way. Inzil I could see doing something similar.

EDIT: X'd with a host...

[Kath]

ToDay! (We've made it!)

Ummm - this from Morsul:
A Little Green, "Green"- Showed up late but came out swinging voted Cab but levels some suspicion on Pom and Copp may wanted to look innocent suspecting Pom but voted an innocent Cab.
Sorry - how do we know Cab is innocent?

Pretty much voting for Morsul from now for that comment.

Ooh and Lottie has spotted it too.

Ah I've skimmed but I'm not going to get this out of my head. I'm tired too. And I need to make sure I vote toDay.

++MORSUL

For, well, that really.

[Morsul the Dark]

++ Ozban

His vote for me seems to be picking up on other people's suspicion(Which I don't really get but can accept) Seems a little forced and coming from a conclusion first evidence later mentality. Wife's using computer so won't be back before DL.
x'ed since Zil

[Coppermirror]

Current vote tally, correct me if wrong:

Nerwen -> Nogrod
Ozban -> Morsul
McCaber -> Rikae
Brin -> Volo
Lottie-> Morsul (2)
Gil -> Volo (2)
Rikae -> Ozban
Inzil -> Ozban (2)
Kath-> Morsul (3)
Morsul -> Ozban (3)

So we have a tie between Morsul, and Ozban.

Yet to vote:
Coppermirror
Nogrod
Greenie (or did I miss something?)
Bane
Sally
Boro (absent)
Shasta (absent)

And around about now I really have an urge to vote for Boro. :( But won't, because he isn't here.

Okay.

++ Ozban

Edit: correcting highlighting

[satansaloser2005]

I'm rather tempted to lynch Gil or Morsul purely for defeatist attitude and continued disregard of coherent sentence structure respectively, but poor (or poor me) posting alone does not a wizard make, and Volo's plausible guilt is too much to ignore, so it's a difficult decision. I can understand the concern about Oz, but I honestly don't have the time to go back and look at all of his posts, so I'll have to ignore him for the moment.


Volo: Tried to start a bandwagon to save what turned out to be a wizard.

Morsul: Seems to know the alignment of another player.

Gil: Playing the "everyone's picking on me for being me" card far too much.


Of those, I find Gil's behavior to be the least "offensive" toDay, so it'll be down to Morsul and Volo.

I'll decide shortly, but I require a sammich first. Hopefully my next sammich will be packed full of wizard flesh....


x'd since....um, sometime around Nog's #238

[Rikae]

Hm. Morsul, what's your explanation for the remark about an innocent Cab?

[Nogrod]

I can understand the concern about Oz, but I honestly don't have the time to go back and look at all of his posts, so I'll have to ignore him for the moment.I was going back ewith the same problem in mind and have to bring you this though...

It seems he was suspecting Gil on D1, but immediately when Pom got a vote he voted for McCaber (who already had votes) out of thin air it seems. So if there was an attempt to keep your mate in th game it could be possible to see Oz trying to do that.

Possible that is. There's an haf an hour to try to see how probable it could be.

[Rikae]

And doubleposting, but: Cop, why Oz over Morsul? Give us something to gnaw on. :D:D

EDIT: And... not doubleposting.

[Morsul the Dark]

Hm. Morsul, what's your explanation for the remark about an innocent Cab?

I can find the relavent posts but this is the Third time:

I used a hypothetical, something lots of people do.

The posts are 172 and 234

[Rikae]

Sorry, missed that. Fair enough, if only because I almost said something similar and I know I'm not a wizard. Running alongside a known wizard like that made him look quite innocent at any rate (whether he is or not).

[Rikae]

Sally, Oz doesn't have that many posts to look at. For your convenience:

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/search.php?searchid=3767928

[satansaloser2005]

I used a hypothetical, something lots of people do.

People, he says. Not trolls. People. (Seriously though, a Wizsul would say that....)


x'd with Rikae

[Gil-Galad]

I'm rather tempted to lynch Gil or Morsul purely for defeatist attitude and continued disregard of coherent sentence structure respectively,

Now, I hate how I have to constantly defend myself, and I hate having to constantly be using the "every one is picking on me" card because that is really all I have. Nobody seems to believe my reasoning, they simply toss it out and replace their own, usually stating that I don't make any sense. I just have to say I am getting frustrated at this, it is like I am speaking a foreign language and nobody can understand me and just pass me off.

I am trying here, and for the most part I am enjoying this game immensely. But please, if you are going to lynch me, make it because you think I am a wizard, not because you just want to get me out of the game.

(During the day, I am using my phone to type my comments, which is difficult enough as is.)

/rant

I will try harder to explain every minute detail, and explain it twice over to the best of my ability.

xed: since 247