T-I-G CVIII: Wolves of the Galadhrim (Game Thread)

[Nerwen]

"So this is a flet," said the Lady Galadriel, gazing out over the sea of mallorn leaves, glinting silver in the light of Ithil. "I do not wonder, now, that you have chosen so strange a dwelling, Lord Amroth, for what other would give so fine a view of your beautiful land? -Or," she added in an undertone, with a glance at Amroth's female attendant, "so good a refuge in times of need?"

"Indeed," said the ruler of Lorien, with a sharp look at his guest, "though I hope and trust such a time will never come."

The Lady Galadriel's face was unreadable. "Truly, you and I have much to discuss." Again she glanced at the Elf-maiden.

Amroth caught the look. "Nerwen," he addressed the attendant, "wine for the lady. She has journeyed far."

The maiden slipped down the ladder with the airy agility of the Silvan folk, a little startling to even an Elf of other race.

"Nerwen?" Galadriel raised an eyebrow.

Amroth smiled. "There are those of us who take an interest in the lore of your people, Lady Galadriel- and in the tales of your youth. You must not think all the Galadhrim are as... well, as my lady Nimrodel."

There was perhaps a trace of wryness in Galadriel's answering smile. "Ah, yes, Nimrodel. She blames the High Elves, does she not, for all the troubles of the hither lands?"

"I have tried to teach her otherwise," said Amroth with a sigh, "but she will have none of it. Lately, too, she has sworn that she will not wed me save I bring her to a land of peace- if any such remain in Middle-earth. -But there! My troubles are a tale for another time. What of your- travels, Lady Galadriel?"

"Alas, I bring you no good news. As we feared, there is some evil power behind the darkening of Greenwood the great, which is fast becoming as foul a place as Taur-nu-Fuin in Dorthonion of old- indeed some now call it by the same name- though Men, I have heard, call it simply, "Mirkwood". Celeborn and I believe it may be one of the Nazgûl."

Amroth gasped. "Surely not!"

"There is worse," the Lady continued. "Whatever this power is, it bears great malice to all the Elves, yes, even to the Silvan folk of Lorien. It has its spies here- have a care whom you trust, Amroth."

"I cannot believe any of my people would sell themselves..!"

"Well, let us hope not. But it is not of treachery that I speak, but of sorcery- of shapeshifting. There are creatures walking among the Galadhrim- in your very household- who wear the faces of Elves but in truth are servants of darkness."

Amroth was silent for a time, gazing out over the tree-city with its many lights. Always before those lights had brought him serenity. Now, for the first time, they made him think of watchful eyes.

"It is my duty to protect this realm," he said, finally. "To protect she whom I love. But I fear it will prove in vain."

"Do not despair," said Galadriel quietly. "I will aid you."

~~~~~~

It is now Night One. Roles have been sent out. If you didn't get one, you're an ordo. Lovers and wolves may pm.

[Nerwen]

"That wine is rather a long time in coming," Galadriel remarked.

"No doubt the maiden has taken shelter from the rain," Amroth answered.

For some minutes now the two Elves had been half-aware of the familiar pitter-patter of moisture falling on leaves. Yet as she listened more attentively, Galadriel's eyes narrowed. Stepping beyond the sheltering roof, she held out her hand. It remained dry.

"There is no rain."

When they found the Elf-maiden Nerwen she was lying across a bough, face downwards, the blood from her torn throat dripping onto the mallorn leaves.

~~~~~~

The Living
Sally
McCaber
Tar-Jêx
Lottie
Farael
Rikae
Shasta
Coppermirror
Boro
Kitanna
Aganzir

The Dead
Nerwen, throat torn out Night One. (Mod).

It is now Day One. You may post.

[Kitanna]

Nerwen? Dead?! What sort of fiend would do such a thing? And in such a gruesome manner!

[Coppermirror]

Such a dark and dreadful deed, in our own Lorien...

We must all speak up. Allow me to introduce myself in song. :Merisu:

♪
I am but a student of the harp
Seeking knowledge of the musical arts.
I travel for my inspiration,
Through forests far and distant stations.

Yet of wonders beheld, none can supplant,
The glorious, transcendent beauty of ants.
Small yet strong, and of slender waist
By their presence we are graced.

The kin of wolves are lovely not;
Such creatures matter not a jot.
Those with ugly teeth and shaggy tails,
Must by all means ne'er here prevail.

We'll find them, catch them, cast them out.
They'll know their loss without a doubt.
And I shall return to my lyrical muse,
The Lorien ant of which scholars enthuse.
♪

[Tar-Jêx]

It brings us all, I hope, great sorrow to hear the death of our friend, the maiden, Nerwen.

Whoever has commit this crime shall pay a heavy tax. We shall all seek to find this beast, and those who don't shall be accused of villainy.
We should not acquaint ourselves too well, for if we fail to catch the perpetrator, I fear another death may occur.

[Coppermirror]

Tar-Jêx, you need to go to the User CP and the edit options page, and set your mode to invisible.

Or in other words...

♪When playing a game of werewolf one must,
Lest one's actions into the limelight be thrust,
Go forth to the mighty User CP,
Set mode to "invisible", then go and drink tea.♪

(The tea is optional.)

[Aganzir]

*storms in*

*sits back*

I am at work and am not supposed to be here. Furthermore, we had drinks with our intern who's leaving and that's even more of a reason not to be here. The bloke at our local pub made me an incredibly strong hot rum chocolate (and gave me a discount).

TERRIBLE things, TERRIBLE things! In our neighbourhood! I would never have believed it had I not seen it with mine own eyes, I always thought evil doesn't come to Lórien!

Nerwen, how many wolves do we actually have? Or is 2-3 really the way of it and if yes can I be the -3?

So far we know Coppermirror is Nimrodel because she sings too much. Cop, have I ever even played with you before? I'm ashamed to say I don't remember.

(Jêx, this is not how you play werewolf. Don't follow my lead. I am a chaotic drunk.)

[Tar-Jêx]

*storms in*

*sits back*

I am at work and am not supposed to be here. Furthermore, we had drinks with our intern who's leaving and that's even more of a reason not to be here. The bloke at our local pub made me an incredibly strong hot rum chocolate (and gave me a discount).

TERRIBLE things, TERRIBLE things! In our neighbourhood! I would never have believed it had I not seen it with mine own eyes, I always thought evil doesn't come to Lórien!

Nerwen, how many wolves do we actually have? Or is 2-3 really the way of it and if yes can I be the -3?

So far we know Coppermirror is Nimrodel because she sings too much. Cop, have I ever even played with you before? I'm ashamed to say I don't remember.

(Jêx, this is not how you play werewolf. Don't follow my lead. I am a chaotic drunk.)

Aganzir, they say that alcohol is the serum of truth. But I do not believe that you are so hammered that all logic has left your mind. Your actions are suspect, and I may (or may not) disregard all words that come off of your slurred tongue. Do not reveal anything stupid, or it could come back to bite you.

I would not suspect Coppermirror of Nimrodel immediately, as we have yet for the rest of the elves to join in with our mourning and investigation. We are all elves, after all, and many of us do love to sing songs that our forebears once taught us. Musical talent is not uncommon amongst us woodland folk. However, I shall note this behavior for later on in our week.

[Coppermirror]

Cop, have I ever even played with you before? I'm ashamed to say I don't remember.

You co-moderated a game that I was a player in (Tol-in-Westeros), but from a quick skim through the old threads, it looks as if we haven't both played in the same one.

And now I must go, since it's getting on for 3AM and I fear I wouldn't make much sense even if I did stay.

♪As time ticks on and my eyes draw closed,
I must now leave to find repose.
I will return when I do wake,
To find those dreadful canine fakes.♪

[Aganzir]

Do not reveal anything stupid, or it could come back to bite you.
*licks lips* looking forward to that! I love when things come back to bite me.

Yeah actually I think Shasta is Amroth because I noticed a tension between Nerwen and Amroth in the narration (and they have this ongoing thing). Which would imply Nerdanel was involved in Nerwen's death and is - crime of passion or not - actually evil.

You co-moderated a game that I was a player in (Tol-in-Westeros), but from a quick skim through the old threads, it looks as if we haven't both played in the same one.
Yes thought so. So I know what you're like but you don't know me. Oh the possibilities! :smokin:

[Aganzir]

We are all elves, after all, and many of us do love to sing songs that our forebears once taught us. Musical talent is not uncommon amongst us woodland folk.
Yeah true that.

♪She climbs a tree (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-VRyQprlu8) and scrapes her knee, her dress has got a tear♪

Really if I try to post within three hours of deadline on weekdays, you should tell me to get out and proceed to ignore everything I say. I am not getting any work done even though there's no actual discussion yet.

[Loslote]

Blood drips onto the mallorn leaves - a dark portent indeed, and one that bodes ill for our fair forest!

Yeah actually I think Shasta is Amroth because I noticed a tension between Nerwen and Amroth in the narration (and they have this ongoing thing). Which would imply Nerdanel was involved in Nerwen's death and is - crime of passion or not - actually evil.

Indeed! So, now all we need to do is find out who Shasta was cheating on Nerwen with, and we'll be halfway to catching the wolves!

[Kitanna]

♪When playing a game of werewolf one must,
Lest one's actions into the limelight be thrust,
Go forth to the mighty User CP,
Set mode to "invisible", then go and drink tea.♪

(The tea is optional.)
The tea should never be optional!

It appears a lot of this game shall be left to speculation. So I'm going to wildly speculate before going back to work.

Tar-Jêx and Agan are the Lovers and their role is joint-cobblers. They are here to cause chaos and root for the wolves.

Boro and Sally are wolves. If there's a third it's probably Farael.

Cop is up to no good with all the songs. And Lottie is fabulous just because.

And I'm a lovable scamp who is going back to her day job.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Blood drips onto the mallorn leaves - a dark portent indeed, and one that bodes ill for our fair forest!



Indeed! So, now all we need to do is find out who Shasta was cheating on Nerwen with, and we'll be halfway to catching the wolves!

I would never.

(Except, possibly, in the case of Rune, but I mean, come on, who wouldn't? :rolleyes:)

But seriously, Nerwen has been my Queen of the Sea for years, I'd never do anything to upset her! (You should see how she gets when she's angry... :Merisu:)

[Aganzir]

Tar-Jêx and Agan are the Lovers and their role is joint-cobblers. They are here to cause chaos and root for the wolves.
Blimey! I didn't think we'd get caught this quickly.

Whyyy is it quiet?

Okay whatever.

Ooh revelation! *looks at the player list* I seem to be the only European here! (Assuming Jêx is not?)

I was going to speculate about the exact nature of the lovers' relationship because I was for some reason sure Amroth had to find Nimrodel before they could communicate (like you know when you sometimes get an idea and are convinced it's true without any actual evidence whatsoever? That happens to me all the time), but seeing as they were allowed to PM on night 1, that doesn't seem to be the case. Story-wise it would make sense that Amroth decides to abandon his people if he loses Nimrodel (ie her death kills them both), but obviously it can also work the other way round, or their fates may not be tied to each other at all except as a victory condition. I wonder if Amroth is allowed to protect her?

[Kitanna]

Blimey! I didn't think we'd get caught this quickly.
I'm magic after all.


I was going to speculate about the exact nature of the lovers' relationship because I was for some reason sure Amroth had to find Nimrodel before they could communicate (like you know when you sometimes get an idea and are convinced it's true without any actual evidence whatsoever? That happens to me all the time), but seeing as they were allowed to PM on night 1, that doesn't seem to be the case. Story-wise it would make sense that Amroth decides to abandon his people if he loses Nimrodel (ie her death kills them both), but obviously it can also work the other way round, or their fates may not be tied to each other at all except as a victory condition. I wonder if Amroth is allowed to protect her?
I feel like there's going to be more to it than that, why else would our moddess want it to be a secret? As to what could be involved? No idea. Maybe Nimrodel chooses who Amroth protects and he cannot protect her, but she can have him protect himself. Maybe the 2-3 wolves thing is a hint. If Nimrodel dies Amroth goes to the dark side or vice versa?

[Tar-Jêx]

The tea should never be optional!

It appears a lot of this game shall be left to speculation. So I'm going to wildly speculate before going back to work.

Tar-Jêx and Agan are the Lovers and their role is joint-cobblers. They are here to cause chaos and root for the wolves.

Boro and Sally are wolves. If there's a third it's probably Farael.

Cop is up to no good with all the songs. And Lottie is fabulous just because.

And I'm a lovable scamp who is going back to her day job.

Your hastiness to jump to conclusions when nobody else has directly accused another implies that you want to get things moving. However, accusations so early are a bad habit to get into. If you have guessed correctly, a target will appear upon your head.

Myself and Aganzir both lovers and cobblers? Don't be ridiculous. Do not forget that Amroth is also a ranger in addition to a lover, and three roles for one person would seem very exclusive. Unfortunately, I was not gifted with anything exciting for my first game of werewolf, and rightfully so. Aganzir, on the other hand, could be anything at this point.

I speculate that Shasta is not a lover, but a werewolf. Seeing as we don't have large numbers, two werewolves would make more sense, so in that, I guess Loslote as the second wolf. I have no evidence for either of these people, except my intuition. If there is a third, it will be someone who has yet to introduce themselves.

Coppermirror does no mischief with those melodious tunes. Suspecting one who has provided us with art is counter-intuitive.

[Aganzir]

I feel like there's going to be more to it than that, why else would our moddess want it to be a secret? As to what could be involved? No idea. Maybe Nimrodel chooses who Amroth protects and he cannot protect her, but she can have him protect himself. Maybe the 2-3 wolves thing is a hint. If Nimrodel dies Amroth goes to the dark side or vice versa?
Could be more than that, or could be it's a secret just because it's fun to keep the village in the dark. Story-wise, I don't think it would make sense for Amroth or Nimrodel to go to the dark side, but in love and werewolf everything is possible.

I took the 2-3 wolves thing as an unconfirmed number. If there was one player less I'd be pretty sure we only had 2 wolves, and if one more I'd be inclined to say there were 3, but 11 could swing both ways. If there's just two wolves there might be a cobbler to balance things out though, so I suppose it might also be a hint, although I'd still wait for Nerwen's confirmation first.

Your hastiness to jump to conclusions when nobody else has directly accused another implies that you want to get things moving. However, accusations so early are a bad habit to get into. If you have guessed correctly, a target will appear upon your head.
Actually I think accusations this early are the best possible habit to get into. There's little enough to talk about on day 1 as it is, so might as well throw sticks and see which dogs bark. :smokin: That, or talk about the roles, or about how awful day 1s are. Or be a bore and let others do your talking for you.

Aganzir, on the other hand, could be anything at this point.
I could. :smokin:

Righty it's my bedtime! Kitanna looks okay. I'm willing to give Jêx the newbie pass and Farael the long time no see pass for today.

[Loslote]

Tar-Jêx and Agan are the Lovers and their role is joint-cobblers. They are here to cause chaos and root for the wolves.

...yeah, alright, actually, I'd believe that! Or, well, not exactly cobbler-Lovers, since it would not make sense for a pair of Lovers to act like normal cobblers - since a normal cobbler tries to attract attention and wants to be lynched, whereas the Lovers want nothing less - but I'd believe that we might have a cobbler, and if so, these two (maybe Tar-Jêx more than Agan, because while Tar is a newbie with an unknown playing style, Agan honestly hasn't seemed that much different than normal) might be it. That being said, it's a pretty far stretch, and I wouldn't be voting based on that even if I were to want to vote for a cobbler.

Otherwise, Kit's looked pretty good so far, and I'd like to keep Cop around if only in the hope of enjoying more lovely music. I feel like there are a lot of people who haven't posted at all yet, and I'm not liking the possibility of having to vote when almost half the village has yet to make an appearance. :eek:

[McCaber]

Checking in. At first read there really isn't much I've gleaned from the discussion. I'll give a second look and see if anyone leaps out at me.

[Boromir88]

It brings us all, I hope, great sorrow to hear the death of our friend, the maiden, Nerwen.~Tar-Jex

I don't trust anyone who regarded Nerwen as a friend. There's something not right with that sorceress in the woods...getting inside your head and all too!

[Kitanna]

...yeah, alright, actually, I'd believe that! Or, well, not exactly cobbler-Lovers, since it would not make sense for a pair of Lovers to act like normal cobblers - since a normal cobbler tries to attract attention and wants to be lynched, whereas the Lovers want nothing less -


It's werewolf. Anything could happen. Maybe the ranger protects lynches rather than Night kills! (I don't actually think that, just more wild speculation for the fun of it.)

I'm all for wild speculation today, but on a serious note: It was a long day. I just came home from a holiday office party which means it's bedtime and there's a 95% chance I'll sleep through the DL.

At this time no one has actually said anything to raise my suspicions, but I don't think there's been a game where I haven't voted on even the weakest of suspicions so I will vote.

Usually I'd vote for Sally because it's a long standing tradition to suspect her, but she hasn't spoken so of those that have I randomly vote for

++Tar-Jêx

I made a list of those who spoke, closed my eyes, and pointed. This has nothing to do with my wild speculation from earlier, but really was just a random pick. I hate not to vote.

[Loslote]

I made a list of those who spoke, closed my eyes, and pointed. This has nothing to do with my wild speculation from earlier, but really was just a random pick. I hate not to vote.

I'll probably have to do something similar if nothing happens in the next half hour or so, unfortunately, though I'd probably pick from among the people who I haven't a) gotten a good feeling off of and b) played with before - so between everyone except Kit, Cop, Agan, Tar, or Farael. I mean, I guess that excludes a little over half the village, so there's that, at least! :rolleyes:

[Tar-Jêx]

I can respect Kitanna's decision and obligation to vote, however, I strongly disapprove of the choice. I feel that not voting at this point would be dangerous for my own safety, and so out of self defense, I must return the favor.

I am yet undecided as who to choose, as none of you seem to be wolves. I shall do the same as Lostlote and wait a bit before making a decision.

[Loslote]

I shall do the same as Lostlote and wait a bit before making a decision.

Lostlote indeed! Fumbling around in the dark, trying to light upon some sliver of suspicion...I've missed this game. :p

The only thing I've got, really, is a bit of confusion (in all honestly, probably based more on the fact that it's almost two in the morning and I've been yawning since eight) about this post:

I don't trust anyone who regarded Nerwen as a friend. There's something not right with that sorceress in the woods...getting inside your head and all too!

I'm not sure what Boro is saying, and at two in the morning on Day 1, I guess that'll have to be as good as anything.

++Boro

[Tar-Jêx]

Lostlote indeed! Fumbling around in the dark, trying to light upon some sliver of suspicion...I've missed this game. :p


That was most certainly intentional, and my way of saying that you have no idea what you are doing. To be fair, none of us, save the wolves, have any clue. In fact, we should be the most suspicious of those who seem to know what they are doing. At this point, we are basically chatting about what we've been up to. Don't bother hopping on the anti-Jêx bandwagon, as there is no evidence except for my outrageous ego. You must also think to yourself, 'Why would a wolf make themselves noticed on Day 1?'

Kitanna has awful reasons for voting, but she isn't accusing for a particular reason like Boro was. I still have yet to be convinced of any one person who we should lynch. This is not to say I trust any of you, I just don't have any proof of werewolfdom.

[Coppermirror]

♪ Courage, elves, for bright daylight
Is with us to cast out the blight ♪

People who have shown up so far: Kitanna, me, Tar-Jêx, Aganzir, Loslote, Shasta, McCaber, Boro. (8)
We have yet to hear from: Farael, Sally, Rikae. (3)

That's better than I expected given that we're still on the first page.

Game rules and roles

Some of the roles in this game seem to be characterised by deliberate ambiguity, which adds a little more interest to it.

(1) Are there two wolves or three wolves? Our fair village consists only of eleven at present. A game of twelve would usually have three wolves and three gifted. However, the third gifted in this game is not a Hunter but a Lover. I find it reasonably plausible that there could be either two wolves or three in such a context. Oh well, that line of enquiry hasn't led me to a useful conclusion yet. Continuing on.

(2) What's up with the Lovers?

The exact nature of the Lovers' relationship is a secret. You are free to speculate.

Well, that suggests that something is unusual there, but doesn't give any details. We already know that the Lovers can PM each other, at least.

Lovers usually appear to have an independent affiliation from the village. However, in this case one of them is also the Ranger. I assume the Lovers have the same affiliation as each other by default. I do find it implausible that there could be three wolves and also a pair of independent Lovers. Would the game balance be off if there were two wolves and independent Lovers? Hard to say, but not having the Ranger firmly on our side would still be harsh.

Also, I find it hard to believe that Amroth and Nimrodel would not be on the side of the elves of Lorien at least to begin with. The narration shows no hints that anything is amiss with our ruler, and the Lady Galadriel has promised to aid him.

ToDay so far

Kitanna: Believes that tea is never optional. Well, I also agree that in my view, tea is never optional. But I understand that some poor souls feel otherwise, and one must be considerate of them. Kit throws out some random-looking guesses. She brings up the possibility of joint-Cobbler Lovers. But it doesn't look like a serious suggestion the way she phrases it.

I feel like there's going to be more to it than that, why else would our moddess want it to be a secret? As to what could be involved? No idea. Maybe Nimrodel chooses who Amroth protects and he cannot protect her, but she can have him protect himself. Maybe the 2-3 wolves thing is a hint. If Nimrodel dies Amroth goes to the dark side or vice versa?

This looks like good speculation. An affiliation change after one of them dies could be a tricky enough thing to explain Nerwen's deliberate vagueness about both the roles.

And then Kitanna votes for Tar-Jêx, saying it is a random guess. Nothing she says there really looks suspicious. I can believe that if innocent she might have to resort to a random guess at this point of the game. But if she's not innocent then Tar-Jêx, who I believe is a first-time player, is a safe vote for her on Day 1.

Tar-Jêx: Post #17 looks the most interesting. They caution Kitanna against early guesses, then go ahead to make early guesses of their own. Tar also guesses that there are probably two wolves. The writing style doesn't seem villainous to me, but I can't rule out that Tar could be a scheming evil prodigy.

Aganzir: Is very energetic! And apparently rolled in here drunk.

Do not reveal anything stupid, or it could come back to bite you.

*licks lips* looking forward to that! I love when things come back to bite me.

Well, if Tar and Agan are both wolves, they're very bold ones with all that talk of biting. It does seem a bit unlikely.

Story-wise it would make sense that Amroth decides to abandon his people if he loses Nimrodel (ie her death kills them both)

Interesting. I had better look these things up. Anyway, Agan speculates that the wolf numbers could swing either way. What she's saying generally sounds pretty sensible. I'm not getting any innocent or guilty vibes.

Loslote: She contemplates that there might really be a cobbler around. That's fair enough. Then she says she'll have to vote soon, then she votes for Boro based on slight confusion and the elimination of people she'd rather not vote for. With so little to go on, it doesn't say much for her innocence or guilt.

Shasta: Has said next to nothing.
McCaber: Ditto.
Boromir Ditto.

I'm glad I don't have to vote for a while. But for first impressions, I don't think I'll be voting for Kitanna, especially as she's already left. For Tar-Jêx and Farael there are reasons to cut them some slack. Agan and Lottie don't seem particularly suspicious as of yet.

I'm going to be gone for a few hours to watch TV and eat dinner, but barring sudden disaster, I'll be back at least two hours before the deadline.

Edit: Crossed with Tar-Jêx.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Shasta: Has said next to nothing.

Shasta: has been at work all day. I'm sure I'll come up with something to say once I'm caught up on the thread (not that there's a whole heck of a lot to catch up on, considering we're still on page one).

[Tar-Jêx]

Tar-Jêx: Post #17 looks the most interesting. They caution Kitanna against early guesses, then go ahead to make early guesses of their own. Tar also guesses that there are probably two wolves. The writing style doesn't seem villainous to me, but I can't rule out that Tar could be a scheming evil prodigy.


Nothing wrong with acquiring a reputation for future games.


And then Kitanna votes for Tar-Jêx, saying it is a random guess. Nothing she says there really looks suspicious. I can believe that if innocent she might have to resort to a random guess at this point of the game. But if she's not innocent then Tar-Jêx, who I believe is a first-time player, is a safe vote for her on Day 1.

This raises suspicion with Kitanna. I am unsure how much werewolf people have played, and have yet to learn reputations of people. If she is a cunning one, what you have suggested she may have done is probably a good guess.


Some people have been theorizing that if one of the lovers dies, the other will turn, however, in the 2nd last line of post #1, Amroth says that it is his duty to protect the realm, and the one he loves. It doesn't speak to me of Amroth focusing solely on the 'lovers' win condition, as he is the ranger. However, since he is a ranger and a lover, it is more than likely that he will use his power to protect Nimrodel, rather than a villager.
To quote Nerwen, 'Amroth (Ranger/Lover)– protects a player every Night. May not pick the same player twice in a row. May or may not be able to self-protect. (i.e. I’m not telling.)'
Seeing as he may be able to self protect, he could also ignore the lover goal and just focus on survival for himself.
I believe that since Amroth has two tasks, the ranger and the lover, Nimrodel may also have more than one task. 'Nimrodel (Lover)– The exact nature of the Lovers' relationship is a secret. You are free to speculate.'
Like Kitanna, I think that there is definitely something going on with the lovers. The lovers/cobblers combination doesn't seem too implausible if they have the ability to both die together.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

On the number of wolves - three seems a rather large number for a village of eleven. Two makes more sense to me, but it does seem a bit underpowered. Thinking about it, it seems like the fix would be to have some sort of evil-aligned role that's not a wolf, such as a Cobbler - however, as far as we know there's no Cobbler in this game.

I had a thought just now as I was typing this up - what if the lovers are Ranger/Cobbler? Story-wise it doesn't appear to make the most sense, but I'll be the first to admit I don't know the story all that well. Is Nimrodel a character that's at all likely to be Cobbler-esque? I throw out the speculation because my shining star is being so happily vague about roles this game, and having just two wolves on the evil side seems a bit weak.

[Tar-Jêx]

On the number of wolves - three seems a rather large number for a village of eleven. Two makes more sense to me, but it does seem a bit underpowered. Thinking about it, it seems like the fix would be to have some sort of evil-aligned role that's not a wolf, such as a Cobbler - however, as far as we know there's no Cobbler in this game.

I had a thought just now as I was typing this up - what if the lovers are Ranger/Cobbler? Story-wise it doesn't appear to make the most sense, but I'll be the first to admit I don't know the story all that well. Is Nimrodel a character that's at all likely to be Cobbler-esque? I throw out the speculation because my shining star is being so happily vague about roles this game, and having just two wolves on the evil side seems a bit weak.

So far, the facts we know about the lovers are: Amroth is also a ranger and the nature of the relationship has been accentuated to arouse suspicion surrounding their roles.

I doubt that Amroth would also be a cobbler, because 3 roles seems far too many for one person. If they were to be lynched, it would take a lot of interest out of the game in one hit. However, the text about Nimrodel seems most intriguing. I am led to believe that Nimrodel has more than one objective, similar to Amroth's dual objective. 2 wolves is too few, but 3 is too many. A cobbler would fill this mid-space quite well, and could be Nimrodel's other role.

[McCaber]

Well, the old stories hold Nimrodel to be of the Nandor, who stalked these woods long before the arrival of the Noldor and Sindar. She believes us to be invaders; that we are throwing off the natural order and that we have no place here. I am not sure if she has werewolf blood in her, but I would not think she has our best interests at heart.

Alas, though, she has captured the heart of our prince Amroth, and I fear for those he is charged with protecting.

EDIT: Hang on, that's us, isn't it. FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU-

[Tar-Jêx]

Well, the old stories hold Nimrodel to be of the Nandor, who stalked these woods long before the arrival of the Noldor and Sindar. She believes us to be invaders; that we are throwing off the natural order and that we have no place here. I am not sure if she has werewolf blood in her, but I would not think she has our best interests at heart.

Alas, though, she has captured the heart of our prince Amroth, and I fear for those he is charged with protecting.

EDIT: Hang on, that's us, isn't it. FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU-

Even though he will likely be useless in our survival, if he gets lynched, that will still be annoying because we would have lost the only person (probably) with the ability to protect us from the wolves' attacks at night.

This discussion of the lovers is merely 1st page talk. It will accomplish nothing, as we will not be able to gather information, except by confession, about their goals.

Soon, the remaining elves shall speak, and from that, we must make a decision of who to lynch.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Well, the old stories hold Nimrodel to be of the Nandor, who stalked these woods long before the arrival of the Noldor and Sindar. She believes us to be invaders; that we are throwing off the natural order and that we have no place here. I am not sure if she has werewolf blood in her, but I would not think she has our best interests at heart.

Alas, though, she has captured the heart of our prince Amroth, and I fear for those he is charged with protecting.

EDIT: Hang on, that's us, isn't it. FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU-

Hmm. That does sound relatively cobbler-ish, doesn't it? We might be dealing with a duo of opposed alignments (which we've seen before, although I don't remember precisely what enabled them to win as Lovers rather than just innocent or wolf - I might go back and see if I can find where that occurred.)

In any case, I'm about to drop off to sleep, so I need to vote. Going to look back and see if there's anything at all to go on - but I'll probably end up voting for someone who hasn't shown up yet (it can't have been too difficult to give everyone a poke that the game was starting, after all.)

[McCaber]

Votes:

Kitanna -> TJ (1)
Lottie -> Boro (1)

That's a really small number for so close to deadline. That usually means that wolves will be able to influence the vote so they both survive Day 1, especially with how little discussion has taken place toDay.

[McCaber]

I'm in the same boat as Shasta when it comes to sleep schedules, but when there's not much to go on I'd rather vote someone who's talking. In my experience it's the innocents who tend to not show up, but wolves and gifted have that little extra bit of information that usually has them playing with more skin in the game.

So I'm going with

++ Aganzir

Her whole crazy drunkard act seemed artificial and overcalculated to me.

[Aganzir]

I come to check the thread after waking up and what do I see?

In my experience it's the innocents who tend to not show up, but wolves and gifted have that little extra bit of information that usually has them playing with more skin in the game.
Oy! "I voted for her because she's speaking" is a reason I'm never happy with (no matter who gets the vote), but here McC basically says "Agan could be a gifted so I'm voting for her".

[Tar-Jêx]

On the contrary to McCaber, I don't believe Aganzir's drunkenness to be entirely false, however, it is true that wolves and gifted always want something to say.

I await further convincing to make my decision.

[Coppermirror]

I also need to vote soon. I've got to be up early tomorrow morning and can't afford to stay up much later. I'm going to read the thread over again and try to make the best decision I can in the circumstances.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

It seems counterproductive to me to vote for someone who's talking at this point - killing off someone who's posting as opposed to someone who's not will just cause the game to go more inactive.

Farael hasn't played in forever and I'd hate to off him Day 1 just because he had something come up. Between Rikae and Sally, it's hard to pick, but I've been blindsided by an evil Sally before; I seem to have a natural bias against thinking she's ever evil.

++Sally

[Coppermirror]

Okay.

Not voting for
Farael - Since they haven't played for a long time and haven't shown up.
Tar-Jêx - Day 1 newbie pass. But this bit stood out a little:

The writing style doesn't seem villainous to me, but I can't rule out that Tar could be a scheming evil prodigy.Nothing wrong with acquiring a reputation for future games.

Is Tar really saying that they want to acquire a reputation as a scheming evil prodigy wolf? I can't quite believe that somebody would be a villain and actually say that. It's so much of a slip that I can't believe it could be true.

Kitanna made some useful posts and was talking a fair amount, and is also not here to defend herself. I'm in the dark about Agan and Lottie.

Could vote for:
Rikae or Sally on account of their absence/not wanting to vote for an active participant. Which is distasteful, but so is voting for somebody just because they've posted. Both are pretty bad.

McCaber: I don't really like the reasoning for his vote, but it's not as if most of the earlier voters had anything better. The thing that Agan pointed out could be a slip. He also seems to have left for the Day.

Shasta is always suspicious, but nothing so far pings me as unusually suspicious. His vote is pretty safe, one for someone who isn't here yet and has no other votes yet.

Votes so far are
Kitanna -> Tar (1)
Lottie -> Boro (1)
McCaber -> Agan (1)
Shasta -> Sally (1)

I could vote for someone else, thus spreading the vote out even more thinly. Could I learn anything from that? Maybe. Alternatively, I could choose one of these votes to second, and see what happens. Well, no time, got to pick. I think I will do the latter and up the ante. I realise I'm painting a big target on my back.

++Agan.

[Tar-Jêx]

McC basically says "Agan could be a gifted so I'm voting for her".

McCaber was implying that those who are talking are more likely to be wolves or gifted, which seems very logical. Your neglect to mention that he suspects you of being a wolf leads me to a conclusion that not more than one of you could be a wolf.

Reading back over today, Boro seems to be following the character guideline of Nimrodel, and is likely to be a lover, not a threat.

I'm afraid I have to agree with Shasta that we could lynch someone who isn't talking. I have my suspicions of all of you so far, but it is likely that someone who is a wolf hasn't posted yet. Of course, Shasta could be voting for Sally to get an easy kill, as she has done literally nothing so far.

However, it doesn't feel right to off someone who has done nothing to contribute, nor detract. Aganzir seems like a bit of a wildcard, like she could be anyone.

++Aganzir

I make this decision not out of spite for Aganzir. I'm obviously interested in my own survival, and it would be better insurance for myself to vote for someone who already has a vote on their head. Boro has not done enough to arouse any suspicion, and Sally has not said a word. Voting for those two seems unfair, as does Aganzir, but to ensure that they actually get to take part, I must regretfully put my vote towards the other suspected elf.

[Aganzir]

Okay I'm now clothed and fed.

I don't trust anyone who regarded Nerwen as a friend. There's something not right with that sorceress in the woods...getting inside your head and all too!
Excuse me, which sorceress are we talking about again? ;)

I think Kit's vote looks alright even if it's unlikely a first-timer is lynched on day 1. If I had had to vote when she did, I would probably have done something similar. In any case, her vote points against the two being wolves together because no matter how slight the chance, I don't think a wolf would have risked it.

Jêx seems to be getting the hang of this game quickly, although I'd like to see more of his own contributions rather than just reactions and responses.

I think the lovers are on our side rather than independent, and not only because in my experience, independent lovers often have the ability to kill and we won't be seeing that in a village this small. The narration seemed to be clear about Amroth's duty to his people anyway.

Okay just to clarify - I wasn't actually drunk, more like happily tipsy in an impatient, chaotic kind of way. So you can hold me responsible for everything I said and did. ;)

However, since he is a ranger and a lover, it is more than likely that he will use his power to protect Nimrodel, rather than a villager.
Yeah this is why I wondered if he can protect her - a gifted who protects the same person every second night isn't much use!

Well, the old stories hold Nimrodel to be of the Nandor, who stalked these woods long before the arrival of the Noldor and Sindar. She believes us to be invaders; that we are throwing off the natural order and that we have no place here. I am not sure if she has werewolf blood in her, but I would not think she has our best interests at heart.
This is actually a good point. It wouldn't be against the story for Nimrodel to side with the wolves.

We might be dealing with a duo of opposed alignments (which we've seen before, although I don't remember precisely what enabled them to win as Lovers rather than just innocent or wolf
Usually surviving till the end together.

Shasta's vote looks okay to me because I agree with his reasoning. And especially after last game I can hardly blame anyone who wants to kill sally. Well okay who am I kidding? I can never blame anyone who wants to kill sally because no matter her role, she's evil.

I'll rather vote for someone who hasn't done much talking because I can't stress enough what Shasta just said - when your vote is uninformed and random, it is counterproductive to kill off someone who's posting. McC is the only person who I actually have something against because the reason behind his vote for me is wrong on so many levels - voting for someone who contributes because "she's probably a wolf or a gifted". It's not necessarily wolfish but it could be a cobbler trying to catch the attention of his furry friends.

[Aganzir]

Oh my god stop this.

Hell.

[Aganzir]

Is there anyone around?

[Aganzir]

Kitanna -> Tar (1)
Lottie -> Boro (1)
McCaber -> Agan (1)
Shasta -> Sally (1)
Cop -> Agan (2)
Tar -> Agan (3)

Left to vote:
Sally
Farael
Rikae
Boro
Aganzir

[Tar-Jêx]

Is there anyone around?

I'm still around. I'm also still your friend, even though I voted for your 'holiday' to 'Belize'.
If you want to, you could vote for yourself in good spirits. Smiling in the face of death is an admirable trait.
I find it unlikely that those who haven't posted yet will post before the deadline, but anything can happen. This Werewolf after all.

[satansaloser2005]

Here. *yawns*

[Aganzir]

Okay I really don't want to do this but bloody hell.

I'm Galadriel.

And I'm not telling you who I dreamed because that will only benefit the wolves at this point.

I'm holding my vote in case somebody cross posts with me, and right now I don't even mind if it's Jêx or Boro or sally, just not me.

[Tar-Jêx]

I stand corrected. Sally, you may have to make a hasty vote.

Unless...

..What if she was here the whole time, waiting for us to cast our votes before she spoke?


Do not worry, I merely jest. Time differences are an issue that we must all face.

[Aganzir]

I would actually even prefer somebody else decided the vote because that would reveal us more later on.

[satansaloser2005]

I've been blindsided by an evil Sally before; I seem to have a natural bias against thinking she's ever evil.

++Sally

Now, now, love. That's not nice. I understand you're upset about your precious one being gone, but there's no reason to take it out on me. I am not a werewolf. *harrumphs*

I am terribly sorry for missing most of the Day though. Last night was oddly more tiring than I expected and I fell asleep quite early, but I'm here now and will attempt to eke out a vote before DL (though I feel perhaps the village's mind is already made up?).


EDIT: x'd with Agan :eek:

[Nerwen]

Five minutes.

[Aganzir]

God I hate this.

If nobody else shows up, it will still be a coin toss between me and somebody else. :(

[Aganzir]

Should we vote for Jêx? Just in case Boro happens to come here?

[Aganzir]

Unless sally wants to off herself to make up for last game. :D

[Tar-Jêx]

Aganzir, if you are Galadriel, then I deeply apologize. If you are not, it was a worthwhile last-ditch effort.

Sally, since Aganzir is essentially dead at this point, you may as well try to get extra information by voting for someone you genuinely suspect.

[Aganzir]

Aganzir, if you are Galadriel, then I deeply apologize. If you are not, it was a worthwhile last-ditch effort.

Sally, since Aganzir is essentially dead at this point, you may as well try to get extra information by voting for someone you genuinely suspect.

I AM NOT DEAD AT THIS POINT. IT'S STILL A COIN TOSS.

[satansaloser2005]

And especially after last game I can hardly blame anyone who wants to kill sally. Well okay who am I kidding? I can never blame anyone who wants to kill sally because no matter her role, she's evil.

And yet now you ask for my help? You sultry minx, shame on you. :p

[Aganzir]

++TAR JEX

[satansaloser2005]

++Jex

I don't take orders well at six bleeding thirty in the morning, and I don't have time to figure out if Agan can be trusted. Sorry, new kid. :(

x'd with my sultry minx

[Tar-Jêx]

I AM NOT DEAD AT THIS POINT. IT'S STILL A COIN TOSS.

There is about a minute left. Your chances do look quite grim. I would recommend voting for Boro, as he has not done much talking, and he isn't me. As Shasta has stated before, voting off someone who has not contributed much is better than killing off a currently active voice.

[Tar-Jêx]

Judgement time.

[satansaloser2005]

This had better be worth it, Aganzir. You know how much I hate lynching new players.

[Nerwen]

Deadline.

No more posting.

[Tar-Jêx]

This had better be worth it, Aganzir. You know how much I hate lynching new players.

I assure you that voting for either myself or Aganzir is a terrible decision, unless you are a cobbler or a wolf.

EDIT: X'd with Nerwen

[satansaloser2005]

Unless sally wants to off herself to make up for last game. :D

Ha! I just saw this. YOU SHUT YOUR LYING FILTHY MOUTH. :p


I'm out, kids. Let us pray we all see each other at Dawn.


EDIT: x'd with the mod. My apologies, dear one.

[Nerwen]

Tar-Jex has been lynched. He was Amroth.

This is why we don't lynch newbies on Day One, remember?:Merisu:

[Nerwen]

Shocked as the Elves were by Nerwen's fate, they were dismayed indeed to find that their king and his guest had vanished. Messengers were sent to the River Nimrodel, in case Amroth happened to be merely visiting his beloved, but her flet, too was empty.

Coppermirror tried to cheer everyone up by singing, but even her fair Elvish voice could do little to lighten the mood of horror that had gripped the Golden Wood.

"TERRIBLE THINGSH, TERRIBLE THINGSH!" wailed Aganzir, staggering drunkenly along a branch. "I alwaysh thought evil din' come to Losh- Loshlorien! She did it! Nimrodel! Crime a' pash-passion!"

The rumours grew wilder and wilder. Nimrodel had killed Nerwen and Amroth, then fled. No, she had drowned herself in the river that bore her name. No, Galadriel had murdered all three of them.

Finally, though, suspicion settled on Aganzir herself.

"Her whole crazy drunkard act seems artificial and overcalculated to me," said McCaber.

"Well, why *not* Agan?" Coppermirror agreed.

"She looks like a wildcard to me," said Tar-Jêx.

Somehow that decided it. The Elves advanced on Aganzir, backing her to the very edge of the flet.

"Oh my god stop this!" she screamed, teetering over the terrible drop. "I'm Galadriel!"

Sally pushed her way to the front of the throng.

"Sorry, must have dozed off," she said, yawning. "Have I missed anything?"

"I'm Galadriel and Tar-Jêx is trying to murder me," Agan explained, catching hold of Tar-Jêx's elbow. "Help me!"

"Well, if you put it that way," said Sally, and together they pitched Tar-Jêx off the flet.

His scream echoed through the forest as he hurtled downward.

The Elves found his broken body lying on the green grass of Cerin Amroth amid the golden elanor and the pale niphredil. When they searched his garments for some clue that might have marked him as an emissary of evil, all they found was the light silver circlet that normally bound the brow of the King of Lórien.

~~~~~~

The Living
Sally
McCaber
Lottie
Farael
Rikae
Shasta
Coppermirror
Boro
Kitanna
Aganzir

The Dead
Nerwen, throat torn out Night One. (Mod).
Tar-Jêx, thrown off a flet Day One. (Ranger/Lover).

It is now Night One.

[Nerwen]

The moon was down, and that night the lights had been doused in the stricken tree-city, so that the Silverlode was relatively dim even to Boro’s Elven eyes. He could still make out, though, the strange form he had glimpsed from high in the trees. Now he could see that it was indeed a boat cunningly carved into the shape of a great swan, such as he had seen bearing the Lady Galadriel.

Surely, he thought, this vessel held some answers to the dark mysteries that beset his home.

Then the boat sank. There was no warning at all. One moment it was there, the next the dark waters had closed over it completely.

Boro waded out into the river, staring about him in perplexity.

He did not see the beaked head that surfaced, periscope-like, behind his back and darted smoothly towards him. His startled cry as he was dragged under the water quickly became a choked gurgle.

“A Swan-shaped submarine!” the wolves congratulated themselves. “Who would ever think of that!"

~~~~~~

Nimrodel stood at the top of the waterfall. The stream that had been named for her gushed over her feet and crashed down to the rocks below, before hurrying on to join the Silverlode (where Boro, unbeknownst to her, was drowning).

Her love lay slain and her heart was dust within her. Another step forward, and her anguish would be over–

“No!” she whispered to herself in the ancient Silvan tongue. “There is another way…"

~~~~~~

The Living
Sally
McCaber
Lottie
Farael
Rikae
Shasta
Coppermirror
Kitanna
Aganzir

The Dead
Nerwen, throat torn out Night One. (Mod).
Tar-Jêx, thrown off a flet Day One. (Ranger/Lover).
Boro, dragged under by a swan-submarine Night Two. (Ordo).


It is now Day Two. You may post.

[Aganzir]

I am so, so sorry, Jêx. :( :(

I've spent the past 24 hours banging my head against the wall. This is my first time as the seer in these 7 years of werewolf and I'm not happy about this mess (well except for not being dead, which is a very nice surprise). You know I thought about lying low and being quiet because I know how easy it is to attract random votes on day 1 when nothing is happening but then I was like Oyy whatever I do what I want and if they lynch me for that, their loss!

So yeah I'm going to withhold my dreams for a while longer because I want to see some reactions first. However - Nimrodel, I dreamed of you but won't reveal you unless you okay it. :smokin:

So happy to be alive. ♥

[Aganzir]

Also, Nim, sorry about calling you Nerdanel by accident yesterday. :D I can imagine she's somebody an elf of your standing doesn't want to be compared to.

Can I quote this again?
I'd rather vote someone who's talking. In my experience it's the innocents who tend to not show up, but wolves and gifted have that little extra bit of information that usually has them playing with more skin in the game.

++Aganzir
I will be very interested in hearing what McC has to say about this. Because the longer I look at this, the more it screams cobbler to me. He's basically saying "the way she's playing, she could be a wolf or a gifted so I'm voting for her!" If McC is innocent, why add the gifted part (since it's sort of obvious but will only make him look worse)? It looks like he's waving and shouting "Look here wolves look here!"

I'm not happy about the fact that Cop voted for me but there isn't really much that I can say about the vote itself - I understand not wanting to spread the votes any further.

I feel okay about sally because if she's a wolf, it would've been so easy to pretend she didn't see my reveal - she could literally just have sat back and watched as the village proceeded to lynch me.

[Aganzir]

I don't trust anyone who regarded Nerwen as a friend. There's something not right with that sorceress in the woods...getting inside your head and all too!
This was Boro's only post and I don't see anything there that would make the wolves prioritize him higher than the seer. It was a weird post though, and caught my attention even as he posted; it looked like he implied that he doesn't hold the seer in high regard.

It was after I joked about Nerwen's death being a crime of passion, so it could be that the wolves thought he was playing the role of jealous Nimrodel. Even so, it would be a stretch, especially as Jêx suggested we vote for Boro rather than him.

It could also have been taken as a cobbler hint ("look look the seer is a problem!") but they wouldn't kill a presumed cobbler.

The narration implies he was killed for being a submarine, but that doesn't make sense at all, except if they were worried Nimrodel would be able to protect me. But that seems equally far-fetched because unless they know something we as a village don't, they should've had no reason to think she shares Amroth's powers.

In any case, it looks like they really wanted Boro dead and/or weren't concerned enough about me, counting that if I had dreamed of a wolf, I would have revealed it. This would also imply they're feeling reasonably safe right now.

Righty I have stuff that I need to do (I wasn't counting on being here today), will be back later. Although knowing me I'll probably continue to check in on my phone. :rolleyes:

[Rikae]

Sorry everyone, I didn't realize the game would be starting so soon.

That has to be the worst Day 1 I've ever seen. It would have been bad enough if Tar was an ordo.
Well, at least Agan is still alive. Unless there's something else in this game I'm not aware of, with the ranger dead that either means she's a wolf, or the wolves are insane.

EDIT: 3000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kitanna]

I don't have a lot of time right now, so I won't be pulling any quotes or pointing any fingers, but I do have a few thoughts on how Day 1 ended.
1) I'm surprised Agan garnered enough suspicion for one vote, much less three (I think that was her final count)
2) It sucks about Jex, but yesterday was odd to say the least and assuming Agan tells the truth about her role there was no way around lynching a gifted.
3) Given Jex's reaction to my speculation that maybe a lone lover goes over to the wolves, I'm thinking the lovers are on the side of the village, even in death. But what happens to Nimrodel with her lover gone?
4) Rikae, I'm wondering if the wolves are trying to be bold and frame up Agan. It's a small village, just a little bit of doubt goes a long way. If Agan is a wolf, she's a daring one who was smart to wait until the end of day when a counter reveal was less likely. I trust her more for withholding her dreams because it'd be easy for a wolf to say "I dreamt Boro and now he's dead." If that makes sense. We'll see how today shakes out I guess.

Excuse any typos, I'm WWing from my phone.

[Rikae]

It would be foolish of the wolves to leave her alive to have another dream, lynch-able as her survival might make her.
It's also interesting that she says she dreamed of Nimrodel...

[Loslote]

Well, at least Agan is still alive. Unless there's something else in this game I'm not aware of, with the ranger dead that either means she's a wolf, or the wolves are insane.

This. I was 99% sure I would wake up to find Agan dead - she'd outed herself as the Seer seconds before we lynched our Ranger, there was no reason for the wolves not to kill her. Unless, I guess, she was heavily suspicious of one of their own, and they didn't want to point fingers at themselves? But even that doesn't make sense. It was Day 1, she hadn't had time to be heavily suspicious of anyone, and the wolves could have just said, "oh, she was killed for being the Seer, not for suspecting any of us."

I guess maybe the wolves knew we'd suspect her for not having been killed, and hoped we'd lynch her today. But that seems risky - what if she'd dreamed of a wolf? It's a bold play, and one I'm not sure we could reasonably attribute to the wolves.

So yeah I'm going to withhold my dreams for a while longer because I want to see some reactions first. However - Nimrodel, I dreamed of you but won't reveal you unless you okay it. :smokin:

Nimrodel is the only other gifted left, right? So, Agan says that she happened to dream of her, and then says she won't reveal who it is without her permission. Which, fair enough, I guess, but that's also the most convenient excuse to not have to be right about dreams currently possible in this game. I'm not convinced.

Note: If Agan's reveal is fake, I don't think we necessarily need a counter-reveal by the real Galadriel. If you wouldn't normally have revealed toDay, don't worry about having to debunk Agan. We'll find out soon enough whether or not she's lying, whether that means we disbelieve her and lynch her (which, I would actually wait another Day, just to be on the safe side) or, if she is actually the real Seer, I can't believe the wolves would risk leaving her alive another Night.

[Rikae]

3) Given Jex's reaction to my speculation that maybe a lone lover goes over to the wolves, I'm thinking the lovers are on the side of the village, even in death. But what happens to Nimrodel with her lover gone?


Which reaction? This was all I could find:
So far, the facts we know about the lovers are: Amroth is also a ranger and the nature of the relationship has been accentuated to arouse suspicion surrounding their roles.

I doubt that Amroth would also be a cobbler, because 3 roles seems far too many for one person. If they were to be lynched, it would take a lot of interest out of the game in one hit. However, the text about Nimrodel seems most intriguing. I am led to believe that Nimrodel has more than one objective, similar to Amroth's dual objective. 2 wolves is too few, but 3 is too many. A cobbler would fill this mid-space quite well, and could be Nimrodel's other role.

It seems possible to me that Tar didn't actually know.

At any rate, I'm not suggesting we lynch Agan now. If she's a wolf,that will become increasingly clear, after all.

Edit: X'd with Lottie

[Rikae]

Nimrodel is the only other gifted left, right? So, Agan says that she happened to dream of her, and then says she won't reveal who it is without her permission. Which, fair enough, I guess, but that's also the most convenient excuse to not have to be right about dreams currently possible in this game. I'm not convinced.

Not to mention that if Nimrodel did go over to the wolves and Agan is a wolf, she does know who she is now. This way she's safe from being expected to reveal a role she doesn't know, if she actually has to reveal her "dream" (which she is also safe from having to do, since Nim isn't likely to choose to reveal), and if she does have to reveal Nim, they can make up any role they like for her.

Note: If Agan's reveal is fake, I don't think we necessarily need a counter-reveal by the real Galadriel. If you wouldn't normally have revealed toDay, don't worry about having to debunk Agan. We'll find out soon enough whether or not she's lying, whether that means we disbelieve her and lynch her (which, I would actually wait another Day, just to be on the safe side) or, if she is actually the real Seer, I can't believe the wolves would risk leaving her alive another Night.

I agree.

[Loslote]

What I want to know is, why Boro? He might have been a submarine kill, but on Day 1, I feel like there would have had to be so many submarines available to kill that the wolves would have had more submarines to pick from than they would have known what to do with. Why did Boro stand out?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Agan being alive aside, there's something from the narration that worries me, and that's Nimrodel's part at the end. When she says there's "another way", am I the only one that finds that to be a bit sinister?

I have to wonder if Nimrodel really did go over to the wolves since Amroth died - which would lend credence to what Rikae said about Aganwolf claiming to have dreamt Nimrodel being a safe play.

[Aganzir]

4) Rikae, I'm wondering if the wolves are trying to be bold and frame up Agan. It's a small village, just a little bit of doubt goes a long way.
This doesn't make sense though, not just for framing purposes, not when they could have killed me then and there. They must have thought of that and it probably contributed, but it can't be the main reason.

Basically I have two options now.

It's possible they thought I could be a cobbler. I know I was being flimsy and sort of trigger-happy yesterday (although by no means enough to get three votes :mad:). And I know that sometimes when I'm a wolf I leave suspected gifteds (or known innocents, as Kitanna - and Nerwen and sally - will remember, or general pains in the neck) alive on the off-chance they're the cobbler. So yeeess I'm a harmless little seer, what can I do for you to survive another night? :smokin:

The other option (and one that feels more plausible the more I think about it) is that we have a cursed/shapeshifter the wolves know about. That's the best explanation I can think for Boro's death - he made one vaguely evil-looking remark and died, even when the wolves could have got me (really I'm a little upset here - who would take someone else when they can have me? :Merisu:), which makes me think they must have been after something specific. A cursed would also explain the 2-3 wolves.

Nimrodel is the only other gifted left, right? So, Agan says that she happened to dream of her, and then says she won't reveal who it is without her permission. Which, fair enough, I guess, but that's also the most convenient excuse to not have to be right about dreams currently possible in this game. I'm not convinced.
I'm just pointing out that I wouldn't need an excuse not to be right. The odds of randomly picking an ordo for a "dream" are high, and I wouldn't have to worry about fooling the wolves. I'll be happy to give you Nimrodel's name if I see her suggest (as discreetly as she wants) she'd prefer I did that, but I will not do it without her consent because I don't know the specifics of her role and don't want to put her at a disadvantage just to prove myself.

Nimrodel's part at the end. When she says there's "another way", am I the only one that finds that to be a bit sinister?
To the best of my knowledge, she's not on the wolves' side so I wouldn't be too worried about the narration - I think her "another way" might mean she won't kill herself without avenging Amroth first, making her a hunter/assassin-like character.

I have one request. Don't spend all your day talking about me (tempting as I know it must be). That will only serve the wolves who'll get to swim through the day with little to no scrutiny.

Also, I'm not happy about how quick Lottie is to discredit me.

In any case I'm glad to see Rikae here!

[Loslote]

It's possible they thought I could be a cobbler. I know I was being flimsy and sort of trigger-happy yesterday (although by no means enough to get three votes :mad:). And I know that sometimes when I'm a wolf I leave suspected gifteds (or known innocents, as Kitanna - and Nerwen and sally - will remember, or general pains in the neck) alive on the off-chance they're the cobbler. So yeeess I'm a harmless little seer, what can I do for you to survive another night?

That could make sense. There was a lot of cobbler talk yesterDay.

The other option (and one that feels more plausible the more I think about it) is that we have a cursed/shapeshifter the wolves know about. That's the best explanation I can think for Boro's death - he made one vaguely evil-looking remark and died, even when the wolves could have got me (really I'm a little upset here - who would take someone else when they can have me? :Merisu:), which makes me think they must have been after something specific. A cursed would also explain the 2-3 wolves.

Are wolves usually told when there's a cursed in play? I've only been cursed once before (one of Sally's games), and I'm pretty sure the wolves didn't know before they turned me that that was a possibility.

I'm just pointing out that I wouldn't need an excuse not to be right. The odds of randomly picking an ordo for a "dream" are high, and I wouldn't have to worry about fooling the wolves. I'll be happy to give you Nimrodel's name if I see her suggest (as discreetly as she wants) she'd prefer I did that, but I will not do it without her consent because I don't know the specifics of her role and don't want to put her at a disadvantage just to prove myself.

The odds of accidentally picking an ordo are high. The odds of being right when it comes to Nimrodel when you'll only reveal the name after you've picked up on a hint from Nimrodel that it's okay to do so are even higher.

I have one request. Don't spend all your day talking about me (tempting as I know it must be). That will only serve the wolves who'll get to swim through the day with little to no scrutiny.

I agree. Even if you are a wolf, I don't think we should lynch you toDay. I think we should leave you alone for at least another Night, just in case you are Galadriel after all. However, given that I suspect you of wolvery, I'll be going back through yesterDay's voting, particularly surrounding you, to see if it leads to the rest of your pack.

[Loslote]

Kitanna -> Tar (1)
Lottie -> Boro (1)
McCaber -> Agan (1)
Shasta -> Sally (1)
Cop -> Agan (2)
Tar -> Agan (3)
Agan -> Tar (2)
Sally -> Tar (3)

Did not vote:
Rikae
Boro
Farael

From this, it seems unlikely that Cop or McCabbie would be Agan's packmate.

It's possible that Shasta could be, and was trying to add another candidate without jumping on the other two options (both, as we know now, innocent) and potentially looking like a bandwagoner, but that is in no way conclusive. Similarly, Sally could have voted to save her packmate, or she could have just voted to save the newly revealed Seer, which is a completely understandable thing for an innocent to do.

I don't think we can say anything about Kit or my vote - we both voted before Agan's name came up, and both pretty randomly, and
Rikae and Farael are not particularly analyzable based on voting records.

However, Rikae has expressed distrust towards Agan's reveal toDay, and Agan hasn't really responded directly to her, though she did respond directly to me with regards to my distrust about her reveal. If Rikae and Agan were packmates, I would have expected them to play that up a bit more - have Rikae lead the charge, stage a loud battle between Agan and Rikae, and let Rikae take the glory for finding a wolf, thus making her seem much more innocent. If Agan is a wolf, I would probably say that Rikae is probably not her packmate.

Similarly, though, if Agan is actually the Seer, I'm not sure Rikae, as a wolf, would have left her alive and then expressed doubt about the reveal. Either way, I'm feeling pretty good about Rikae.

Overall, I'm feeling worst about Shasta and Kit - Sally's vote was pretty natural for either an innocent or a wolf, but her posts generally felt like normal, innocent Sally to me. We haven't heard from Farael yet, and I guess he could be a wolf, but there's not much to be done on that front.

[Aganzir]

Are wolves usually told when there's a cursed in play? I've only been cursed once before (one of Sally's games), and I'm pretty sure the wolves didn't know before they turned me that that was a possibility.
Sometimes yes, sometimes not. I was the cursed in Kitanna's game some years back and both the wolves and me knew about my role - but then, it was publically listed among the other roles. The seer revealed two wolves the day after I was turned but Nerwen and I proceeded to win an epic victory, aided by our "known innocent" cobbler Mac whom we left alive night after night because we were sure it was him. :smokin:

The odds of accidentally picking an ordo are high. The odds of being right when it comes to Nimrodel when you'll only reveal the name after you've picked up on a hint from Nimrodel that it's okay to do so are even higher.
Fair enough, I see your point.

What do you think you're trying to achieve looking at the voting with the premise that I'm a wolf, though? Analyse all you want, but you're wasting your time, which should be clear by tomorrow - I'll leave it up to the village to reach their conclusions. I can't really be even bothered to defend myself because the truth of my words will be obvious soon enough.

My brain isn't working properly anymore (I slept badly last night, haunted by dreams of Cop writing reeeeally long posts - I don't think there's a time I've played WW when it hasn't got into my dreams) and I have to get up early-ish so I'm heading to sleep.

I thought about keeping this information until morning but that will be late at night for most of you others so might as well reveal it now - my night 1 dream was Rikae who's (obviously) innocent. I had major plans for trying to communicate my dreams to her without revealing but, well, didn't happen.

edit: xed with Lottie

[Aganzir]

However, Rikae has expressed distrust towards Agan's reveal toDay, and Agan hasn't really responded directly to her, though she did respond directly to me with regards to my distrust about her reveal.
I think you'll find the answer for that in my previous post, Lottie.

Okay now tea and bed.

[Loslote]

What do you think you're trying to achieve looking at the voting with the premise that I'm a wolf, though? Analyse all you want, but you're wasting your time, which should be clear by tomorrow - I'll leave it up to the village to reach their conclusions. I can't really be even bothered to defend myself because the truth of my words will be obvious soon enough.

Maybe. But this is the best lead I have so far, so I'm going to follow it. Whether or not you turn out to be a wolf after all, it's still a place to start, so I'll be taking closer looks at Kit and Shasta, to begin with.

[Rikae]

When I was reading through the posts I made a mental note that something seemed off in Kit's random vote. Yes, innocents can make random votes, but this particular random vote - well, for one thing, why not vote for Sally, if the whole idea is that her vote means nothing? An innocent wouldn't want to risk her random vote being the basis of a bandwagon, and someone who didn't speak is less likely to be lynched.

So anyway, toDay, Kitanna's post just after I showed up looks quite bad if Agan is indeed a wolf.

And if Agan is not a wolf, I'm a known innocent with no ranger and therefore dead. Bummer.

[Rikae]

Hm... what if Nimrodel actually became an illogical hunter? That would make sense, and wouldn't 100% help the village, either.

[Rikae]

I had major plans for trying to communicate my dreams to her without revealing but, well, didn't happen.


Aw man, that would have been cool.

[Farael]

*Sigh*

I'm really sorry folks. I foolishly assumed there'd be some comment on the Admin thread about the game starting. Since I am subscribed to the thread, I patiently waited for the e-mail to let me know... and missed Day1.

My bad. And I love Day1 silliness, so that double-sucks.

I have a few thoughts working their way through my brain, after a very confusing first day. Those who have played with me will remember I'm not a huge fan of exceedingly long posts with multiple quotations and person-by-person analysis. However, here are a few thoughts for now. I'll post again once I've had time to re-read Day 1 and what we have so far of Day 2.

Topic 1: I don't trust Agan


Agan was about to get lynched when she (you are a she, right?) revealed she was Galadriel. I think it was reasonable to do. She then said she wouldn't give us the one known Ordo as that would only help the wolves... again, reasonable
Agan then survived the night. There was a kill, however, so that leaves us with two possibilities. a) The wolves attacked Agan who was protected by a ranger-like figure (probably the second lover) and then a Hunter-like figure offed Boromir... or, most likely b) The wolves went for Boro for some reason, and left Agan alive
This then leads me to think that Agan is either lying or the wolves are trying to get us to do their dirty work for them.
Then Agan goes out and gives us a "known" Ordo (Rikae). Why would she do that? Rikae hasn't said much yet, and she's not under suspicion. Agan didn't save Rikae's life as much as condemn her to a death in Night 3 (as the wolves will likely off Agan and then off our one "known" ordo)
Furthermore. Agan essentially told Nimrodel to show herself if she wants to be outed by the Seer. In other words, she encouraged our last remaining gifted to drop hints of her identity... why? What does she win by showing herself on Day 2 when (presumably) she isn't under suspicion?
To conclude, I don't trust Agan at all. Having said that, we shouldn't lynch her today. If she's the seer we'll likely lose her tonight and I'll feel foolish. If not, she'll survive and hopefully the true Seer will eventually come out and help lift us out of this mess


I'll look at other people today... but if I agree with Agan in ONE area is that we shouldn't waste too much of our breath on her. She'll either get mauled and be shown to be the Seer or she won't and dream of a Wolf... or she won't and we'll eventually know she IS a wolf.

Edit: X-ed with Rikae

[Farael]

My cross-post reminds me that I need to suspect Rikae

So here's my theory: If Agan is a wolf, then she might be trying to bluff by saying that Rikae is a "known" Ordo. When we find out that Agan was a wolf, Rikae will defend herself by saying it was too obvious a move.

Ok, now that I got some silly out of the way, I can be serious again... I don't suspect Rikae for such a convoluted reason

I suspect Rikae because it's a good idea to do so anyway

[Farael]

I'm in the same boat as Shasta when it comes to sleep schedules, but when there's not much to go on I'd rather vote someone who's talking. In my experience it's the innocents who tend to not show up, but wolves and gifted have that little extra bit of information that usually has them playing with more skin in the game.

So I'm going with

++ Aganzir

Her whole crazy drunkard act seemed artificial and overcalculated to me.

My emphasis -F

At this point the votes were:
Kitanna -> TJ (1)
Lottie -> Boro (1)

People have already remarked on how McCaber's logic seems a little backwards. "Wolves and gifted tend to talk more on Day 1 as they have more invested in the game. So I'll vote for one of the more talkative people". Completely ignoring that he may also be voting for a gifted.

Furthermore, he introduced a third person to the voting list. I think McCaber was in a pretty safe position to try a little Wolf-on-Wolf action, or at least cast a safe vote with iffy reasoning. In my opinion, he cast what seemed like a throw-away vote for someone who was participating and therefore less likely to be lynched (as, in my experience, talkative people often get a pass in Day 1, and it's the quiet but not too quiet people who get the axe).

Finally, by his own logic, he shouldn't be suspected. He was pretty quiet on Day 1 all things considered! So, obviously, he's neither a gifted nor a wolf.

I think McCaber has a lot to answer to, and I would like to see him talk more today. Otherwise, I shall be voting for him before the end of the (North American) night. I feel like, if he was a Wolf and Agan was still alive toMorrow, we'd have an interesting bit of information. I really think that McCaber was not expecting Agan to get in that much trouble.

[satansaloser2005]

Yes yes, hello, I'm here. Ahem. To business.

My sincere apologies to our fair ranger for your premature demise. I didn't have time yesterday to give more thought to what Agan might have been up to and acted in haste. :(

Agan is lying, end of story. There is no logical reason why the wolves would not kill a revealed seer. There's one wolf down in my head, but as there seem to be enough people in doubt on the subject, I'll save my vote for the moment and focus my efforts elsewhere.

Why Boro is the real question here. It doesn't make any sense to me (at least at the moment). I'll have my own look at my prince's posts and see if I can see anything.

Back in a bit with further thoughts.


EDIT: x'd with a bunch of Farael

[Farael]

Agan is lying, end of story. There is no logical reason why the wolves would not kill a revealed seer. There's one wolf down in my head, but as there seem to be enough people in doubt on the subject, I'll save my vote for the moment and focus my efforts elsewhere.

I agree, but my only other theory is that...

Why Boro is the real question here. It doesn't make any sense to me (at least at the moment). I'll have my own look at my prince's posts and see if I can see anything.

... the remaining Lover can both protect someone and act as a hunter. So they protected Agan and then turned around and killed Boro for some reason.

I think it's a weak theory and I think it's far more likely that Agan is a wolf. My third theory is that the wolves want us to do their dirty work for them... but why would a true Seer out Rikae as an Ordo when she was under no pressure?

Still, I'm willing to give Agan one more night, since we have 2-3 wolves out of 9 villagers. That means we have 6-7 "good" people. We can afford to give a "likely wolf" a chance to prove us wrong, since the Wolves will likely kill her toNight anyway if she's our Seer.

[Rikae]

Well, I can see why the seer who expects to die the next night would reveal an ordo. At the very least, you'll have one less person to analyze toMorrow and better chances of catching a wolf through process of elimination (though those chances are small this early on). And after all, better an ordo gets eaten on Night 3 than the last gifted (if she's good).

I keep wanting to assume Agan is evil and vote based on that assumption (for Kitanna, most likely), but that would be hasty. It could still be a risky wolf trick, although I could only imagine it if the wolves felt very safe from dreams themselves. Who would? Is anyone sleeping under that many reindeer...? It's a small village - I can't imagine any wolf feeling safe from the seer.

Why Boro? The only thing I noticed was how Lottie voted for him yesterDay on the basis of (as far as I can see) banter. Could his first post have looked like anything? If Agan's honest, the wolves aren't looking for the seer anymore anyway - perhaps they thought he was Nimrodel?
If Agan's lying, perhaps they thought Boro was the seer, or that his death would somehow make one of them look less suspicious... honestly, I don't think this is a very fruitful line of thought right now.

The deadline happens to be at the time I'm taking the wereduckling out to catch the school bus (tomorrow's her 6th birthday, actually) so I'll definitely have to vote early, probably in a few hours. I hope more people have spoken by then.

[Farael]

Well, it's bed time for me.

I'll likely be up about half an hour before the deadline, but I can't really guarantee I'll have time to read up on everything that's been going on, so it's time to vote for me.

Based on a really iffy reasoning for his Day 1 vote, and the fact that it appeared to be a safe vote for either a wolf-on-wolf OR just a throwaway vote so that no real suspicion would land on him, I nominate

++McCaber

for the guillotine. Elven guillotine that is.

I wish I had a little more to go on with... so European Ordos, I leave this mess for you to sort out!

[Rikae]

It's everybody do the opposite of what Rikae says day, isn't it? ;)

Oh well, I'm afraid I have to vote with this little to go on. That leaves me with

++Kitanna

for previously mentioned and admittedly flimsy reasons.


Don't do anything I wouldn't do, kiddos.

[Loslote]

Looking back at Kit and Shasta, I've found little evidence pointing to either of them as wolves. Shasta has been very quiet, and what he has said has been mostly speculation about roles rather than suspicions about people, but nothing really stands out. Kit started off toDay expressing support for Agan, which (assuming Agan is a wolf, which assumption was the basis of my doubt about Kit in the first place) I don't think a wolf who knew full well that she'd be outed as a wolf sooner or later would have done. If I'm going to vote for one of them, it would be Shasta at this point, but I'm not completely comfortable with that.

I'll skim through again, look for anything else that might jump out at me more, but otherwise I'll have to vote pretty soon here.

[Loslote]

Alright then, I'm off to bed.

++Shasta

Good luck, village!

[Coppermirror]

Back and reading.

[satansaloser2005]

Let's get the big surprise out of the way first: I don't (presently) suspect Kit. Shocking, right? I hate to spoil a glorious tradition, but Kit and Agan discussing the possible implications of Nimrodel on Day 1 seems (at least on Kit’s end) innocent enough to me. While it’s true that the baddies would be as keen to know the lovers’ details as we are, her tone lends an air of ignorance rather than pot-stirring. Essentially I think a wolf Kit or a mystery gifted* Kit would not have this particular type of discussion with Agan; were she a wolf, they could have sent their secret messages during the Night, and were she a gifted, well, she would know what her role was, wouldn't she? Um, wouldn't she? :eek:

The only particular thing I could find from Boro was the use of the phrase “getting inside your head,” which, knowing how clever my prince can be, may have been picked up on by the wolves as a hint toward the seer’s true identity. I know it isn’t much, but there wasn’t much to go on, and the wolves were likely grasping at straws in this matter. Knowing there was no chance to undo Agan’s reveal, the quickest way to profit from the situation was to attempt to find the real seer before he or she could possibly reveal some of the sultry minx’s packmates. Obviously they were wrong, and now they will pay for their heinous crimes. My prince must be avenged!

In regards to above, I’ll note that Lottie made a quick point of that before voting for Boro, which, if my above theory is correct, could paint her in a rather bloody light. Other than that, I’ve not dedicated much time to her yet, I’ll admit.

While I hesitate to trust McCaber on principle (he’s the McCobbler, after all!), I think his logic this Day and the last has been sound (and not just because he voted Agan, promise). He tips toward the logical side of at least voting for someone who is around to defend themselves, and the fact that the vote was for Agan does honestly help his case, especially since he was the one who started the votes against her and we all know how unpredictable Day 1s can be; he easily could have been serving her up as a quick lynch, and I don’t believe Cab would take such a big risk, at least not on Day 1.

I find Shasta’s vote highly suspicious, however. I don’t find it within his nature to go after someone who hasn’t yet spoken their piece. Must he really go after someone who hasn't shown up, especially after the debacles we've had in the past with absent Day 1 lynchees? It’s bad form, and unusual form for him. If he is a wolf, he could easily use the events of the last game (I mean, really, I haven’t changed my avatar, for God’s sake) as a joking front for shifting the vote toward me and away from a compatriot. Say, Agan, perhaps? :rolleyes:

Rikae looks okay to me (for the moment) mostly based on the fact that Agan specified her as a dream, and to have Rikae turn out the opposite of that reveal would ruin what small (and inexplicable) chance Agan has at keeping up this seer act. I'll reevaluate this later, as I know both of these ladies are capable of that level of shenanigans if not more, but for toDay, Rikae shifts into my ignore column. Like yesterDay, I simply have bigger fishes to sleep with- I mean fry.

Farael considers the options and has come to, in my opinion, the correct decision. It's been so long since we've played that I'm not sure of your style, but you certainly don't seem a threat at the moment (and yes, it's Sally). :)

Cop has given me no reason to notice her, and is, I must say, entirely off my radar. Her vote placed Agan solidly in the danger zone, which, much like Cab, I don't believe Cop would risk on Day 1 with so few in the village.

As for this gifted mess, my advice to the village is, at least for now, to ignore what Nimrodel might have been or may have become. If their alignment has shifted, the only evidence we have of their actions from before the change was Day 1, and in most of our cases, that isn't much to go on. I feel like spending time talking about the possibilities of that role is only going to detract from our true purpose, which is exactly what the wolves want. Only two of us can know what Nimrodel's role entails, and I doubt Nimrodel is going to talk, so it's a non-issue.

I need to vote soon and get to bed. A quick list as a recap....

Would vote:
Agan (HOW IS THIS NOT HAPPENING, YOU GUYS?)
Shasta
Lottie
Rikae

Would not vote:
Kit
Cop
Farael
McCaber
Sally (duh)

I'll post this (sorry for the delay, by the way) and catch up again before I vote in a second.


*Nimrodel, that is

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Here and reading, but I do want to voice my utter shock at this quote from Sally -

I find Shasta’s vote highly suspicious, however. I don’t find it within his nature to go after someone who hasn’t yet spoken their piece.

Are you kidding me right now? :rolleyes: After all of the literal on-thread fights I've gotten into with people about voting for people who haven't shown up so that people who have aren't penalized for it? -facepalm-

Anyway, I'll have other comments momentarily, that just stood out.

[satansaloser2005]

Full disclosure: I realize my above post assumes that Agan is not the seer, but....I mean really, come on. Even if -even if!- the wolves were afraid of Nimrodel or they wanted to confuse the village or they thought they could reap some other benefit from it, there's no way they wouldn't kill her. Each Day the seer lives is another Day they could reveal a wolf. It just doesn't make any sense at this stage and with these circumstances.

Also, she's Agan. Come on. :smokin:

If I'm wrong on this, I hereby promise to mail Agan something lovely. It's only fair. :Merisu:


EDIT: x'd with Shasta

[satansaloser2005]

Are you kidding me right now? :rolleyes: After all of the literal on-thread fights I've gotten into with people about voting for people who haven't shown up so that people who have aren't penalized for it? -facepalm-

Anyway, I'll have other comments momentarily, that just stood out.

After the last game and after how much you've been sniped recently, I don't think you'd do it. Not yesterDay, and not to me. You know I always show up. You could have picked someone who had shown up but beaten around the bush, but you didn't. Agan being in trouble at the time makes it a way bigger red flag than it would have been otherwise, but your timing looks incredibly sketch, and I'm an easy bandwagon, which is why I think you picked me.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Okay, regarding Agan the Seer. Obviously, her still being alive is an issue, since we lynched our Ranger. On the one hand, we have the possibility that Agan is telling the truth about being Galadriel - we then have to consider why the wolves left her alive to continue to dream. The only thing I can see as a possibility is something to do with whatever Nimrodel is now; I can't think of any other good reason for the wolves to leave an outed, defenseless seer alive.

On the other hand, we have an Aganwolf, desperate not to be lynched on the first day and pulling a gamble (that ultimately paid off). This theory has the added benefit of explaining why she's still alive today.

Honestly, I'm leaning toward the latter scenario. The former relies too much on the wolves being ultra-timid, in my opinion (unless they know something we don't, which is possible, I suppose, but hard to speculate on).

So, following that assumption, I'm going to look next at the people who were quickest to condemn Agan. A wolf whose partner has an expiration date is almost sure to want to make themselves look good by throwing them under the bus.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

After the last game and after how much you've been sniped recently, I don't think you'd do it. Not yesterDay, and not to me. You know I always show up. You could have picked someone who had shown up but beaten around the bush, but you didn't. Agan being in trouble at the time makes it a way bigger red flag than it would have been otherwise, but your timing looks incredibly sketch, and I'm an easy bandwagon, which is why I think you picked me.

I don't believe I was in the last game (seriously don't remember if I was) and I haven't played in months, so I can't have been "sniped recently" (although it certainly has happened to me before). Yeah, I could have picked someone who'd posted thus far, but I fired on a submarine instead, like I usually do. You, Rikae, and Farael were the ones who hadn't shown up yet, Farael hasn't played in a super long time and I can, on occasion, think Rikae's evil. I think you're innocent every game (and you know that, because you've used that against me, and I know you've done it.)

Besides that, Agan was hardly in trouble when I voted. She didn't even garner her second vote until after I voted for you. Also, you being an "easy bandwagon" is entirely your opinion.

[Coppermirror]

♪
O unexpected fortune! Our Galadriel remains.
Over why and how and who, we must now wrack our brains.
Poor King Amroth, his end was cruel, despite his well-beloved rule,
And we must find the villains here before the Night grows cool.
♪

On Day 1 after placing my last post, I actually hung around until the deadline anyway and watched the whole trainwreck unfold. I believed Agan's Seer reveal, watched in horror as Tar-Jex got killed and turned out to be the Ranger, and have been angsting all since and dragging my heels about coming back toDay, thinking that when I did I'd find out that the wolves had killed a Seer-Agan overNight and it would be all my fault. But Agan is alive, and I've been angsting for nothing? I should have checked in first thing toDay rather than coming in late.

The natural assumption now is that Agan is a wolf, but it seems there are suggestions that the wolves didn't believe the Seer-reveal and think she's got another role. I don't know if that makes sense, but I'll read people's arguments over for a while and see if I can understand them better.

I agree that there is really no need, if Agan is a wolf, for the real Seer to counter-reveal at this stage.

I'm pretty confused about the goings-on toDay, but at least there's not a huge amount of stuff to analyse.

The vote talley so far is:

Farael -> McCaber (1) (does it count when it's not in red?)
Rikae -> Kitanna (1)
Lottie -> Shasta (1)

Yet to vote: Sally, McCaber, Shasta, Coppermirror, Kitanna, Aganzir.

Also, she's Agan. Come on. :smokin:

I'm missing some context here! Could you fill me in?

[satansaloser2005]

The votes so far:
Farael-->McCaber (assuming it counts)
Rikae-->Kit
Lottie-->Shasta

Alas, I have to sleep now. There are currently nine of us, I'm not willing to widen the pool with such a small group, especially since I don't think Agan is really in the cards for toDay. Of the candidates currently on the block, I find Shasta the most suspicious.

++Shasta

Again, McCaber's vote from Day 1 looks quite innocent, and I'm inclined to give Kit a pass for the Day based on my musings in my longer post above. She's done very little though, so all of what I have is speculation, blah blah blah. In any case, I'm waffling enough on the subject that I'll not condemn her at this time.

To bed with me!


x'd since my last because I am super sleepy and nodding off

[satansaloser2005]

I'm missing some context here! Could you fill me in?

No context missing at all, really. That last bit was just me being silly. ;)

[Farael]

Farael -> McCaber (1) (does it count when it's not in red?)
Rikae -> Kitanna (1)
Lottie -> Shasta (1)


So I can't sleep, and I've been keeping a grumpy (because I can't sleep) eye on you all from my phone. I Just wanted to clarify that the red votes weren't a thing when I played last (I don't think they were... I don't even know how to make something red!)

So to clarify

++McCaber

For the same reasons as above.

Of all the recent discussion, there's been little of substance that has been said, really.

The natural assumption now is that Agan is a wolf, but it seems there are suggestions that the wolves didn't believe the Seer-reveal and think she's got another role.

I don't know where that suggestion was made (granted, I AM sleepy)... I think that most of us assume that either Agan is a wolf or the wolves chose to ignore the Seer (or were unable to attack the Seer) for some reason. I know I am splitting hairs here, and it's possible this is all a misunderstanding, but if I'm missing something I'd like that explained!

Rikae and Loslote haven't given us much, but the village was quite quiet when we were all on earlier, so I'm not quite ready to point fingers in their direction

Shasta and Sally have been arguing back and forth, but they are sounding like two wary villagers and not particularly evil.

So, over all, my top two suspects are

Agan whose role will likely be clarified toNight and...
McCaber for his iffy reasoning and "safe" (but misfired) vote


I expect this to change in later Days, but now I need to sleep.

Vote wisely my villagers!

Edit: X-ed with Sally.

[Farael]

Post X-post post (heh)

Could anyone explain the Shasta votes? He's not particularly innocent sounding to me... but neither is he particularly suspicious. This seems like straw-grasping by Loslote and Sally.

Loslote voted early on with little chatter to go on with but... Sally why did you vote for Shasta? Because he cast a vote you didn't like? And why is my pet suspect McCaber getting a pass for "making sense"? He DIDN'T. His logic wasn't to vote for someone who can defend themselves... but rather to vote for someone likely to be a "special player" (and even acknowledged this included gifted!). And Kit seems as much (or little) a suspect as Shasta. So why this one of the three that were on the slate?

Sally, if you are off to bed, then I hope you can answer these questions toMorrow should we meet again. This all sounds very fishy.

[satansaloser2005]

I don't believe I was in the last game (seriously don't remember if I was) and I haven't played in months, so I can't have been "sniped recently" (although it certainly has happened to me before).

Recently is relative in Werewolf these days. I'm referring to recent games, not necessarily games that were played recently (which is definitely not how I should have worded that, but oh well). You've been quite frustrated at being killed in absentia (which I understand, as it's happened to me too, grumble grumble), and with Legate facing the same fate recently while on your side, I'm unwilling to believe you'd throw me so casually under the bus without giving me a chance to defend myself. Rather, I'm willing to believe it, but I don't think that was the situation yesterDay.

Besides that, Agan was hardly in trouble when I voted. She didn't even garner her second vote until after I voted for you. Also, you being an "easy bandwagon" is entirely your opinion.

Honey. Honey. You know how much I'm lynched. It's sort of a lot, and often for little or no reason. You're right in that Agan wasn't necessarily in trouble, but I didn't say she was; I said you were shifting focus onto me and away from someone else.

More importantly, just look at how much you jumped when I poked you.... :rolleyes:


EDIT: x'd with Farael

[satansaloser2005]

No, but seriously, I have to go to bed. My laptop's about to die and I have to work in a few hours. Sorry, loves. It's sleepy time for the cupcake. Lynch wisely!

[Coppermirror]

I'm not going to be voting any time soon. Going to get some dinner and spend a good long time looking through Days 1 and 2 until I think I've got a better grasp on it.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

So, looking back through the thread...

Rikae's first post of the game basically takes for granted that Agan's a wolf ("she's either a wolf, or the wolves are insane.") Kitanna posts a bit in apparent support of an "Agan was framed!" theory. Rikae posts in opposition to that.

Lottie then pulls out the first big hammer in post #77:

This. I was 99% sure I would wake up to find Agan dead - she'd outed herself as the Seer seconds before we lynched our Ranger, there was no reason for the wolves not to kill her. Unless, I guess, she was heavily suspicious of one of their own, and they didn't want to point fingers at themselves? But even that doesn't make sense. It was Day 1, she hadn't had time to be heavily suspicious of anyone, and the wolves could have just said, "oh, she was killed for being the Seer, not for suspecting any of us."

I guess maybe the wolves knew we'd suspect her for not having been killed, and hoped we'd lynch her today. But that seems risky - what if she'd dreamed of a wolf? It's a bold play, and one I'm not sure we could reasonably attribute to the wolves.


Nimrodel is the only other gifted left, right? So, Agan says that she happened to dream of her, and then says she won't reveal who it is without her permission. Which, fair enough, I guess, but that's also the most convenient excuse to not have to be right about dreams currently possible in this game. I'm not convinced.

Note: If Agan's reveal is fake, I don't think we necessarily need a counter-reveal by the real Galadriel. If you wouldn't normally have revealed toDay, don't worry about having to debunk Agan. We'll find out soon enough whether or not she's lying, whether that means we disbelieve her and lynch her (which, I would actually wait another Day, just to be on the safe side) or, if she is actually the real Seer, I can't believe the wolves would risk leaving her alive another Night.

I can't really disagree with the points here; they're fairly commonsensical. To me, though, this post has a certain surety to it - like Rikae, Lottie seems supremely confident of Agan's guilt. Which is fair enough, I suppose, but I've always been the type of player to at least consider both sides; unless you're the MC, you really can't take anything at 100% face value. There are situations that are obvious, sure - but at this point in time, I'd say the AganSeer situation deserves at least a cursory examination.

It's also interesting to me that Lottie doesn't want to actually lynch Agan today. That seems like a valid precaution... if you think there's a possibility Agan really is the Seer. That doesn't seem to be the case here, though, which makes me wonder if Lottie doesn't just want to be on record as opposing Agan in the event of Agan's eventual death.

Rikae also mentions that she's not suggesting we lynch Agan today. It's also interesting to note that Rikae hasn't (at this point) really given any consideration to the possibility that Agan might be telling the truth. She just seems more matter-of-fact about it than Lottie does.

-------------------------

So, by the start of page 3, we have Lottie and Rikae firmly in the anti-Agan camp and Kitanna in the "maybe she's being framed" camp.

Post #83 by Lottie appears to be an escalation of what she's already said; she's even more convinced Agan is a wolf, but also even more against lynching her today, "just in case". That seems rather counterintuitive to me - it also seems like the kind of distancing a wolf would do once she sees the suspicion train start to pick up on a packmate.

Another quote by Lottie (this is turning out to be quite the anti-Lottie post, isn't it?)

If Rikae and Agan were packmates, I would have expected them to play that up a bit more - have Rikae lead the charge, stage a loud battle between Agan and Rikae, and let Rikae take the glory for finding a wolf, thus making her seem much more innocent. If Agan is a wolf, I would probably say that Rikae is probably not her packmate.

This looks rather familiar...

Farael makes his debut in #91, also doesn't trust Agan (with bullet points!) and also doesn't want to lynch her today. However, while most of his bullet points are written from the point of view that Agan is a lying wolf, there's this one that confuses me -

Then Agan goes out and gives us a "known" Ordo (Rikae). Why would she do that? Rikae hasn't said much yet, and she's not under suspicion. Agan didn't save Rikae's life as much as condemn her to a death in Night 3 (as the wolves will likely off Agan and then off our one "known" ordo)

I mean, if I were the Seer and I was almost sure I'd be dead soon (either by false lynch or nightkill) I'd probably tell what I knew. I'd feel pretty silly if the person I dreamt innocent was lynched after I died, for instance. In any case, what confuses me here is that most of Farael's post appears to be written from the point of view that he doesn't trust Agan, but this point appears to be written to be true if Agan is the Seer?

I may just be misreading, or miscomprehending, or something. It's 1:30 am. If you could clarify, Farael, that'd be good.

Post #94, Sally shows up, immediately decides that Agan is lying. As of right now, literally Agan' only possible supporter is Kitanna (at least, of those who have posted.)

Oh! Farael does clarify what he meant a bit in post #95, with the Nimrodel-as-protector theory. I'll grant that it seems rather far-fetched, but given that there's no real way to say definitively that it's not the case, I think it deserves at least a bit of thought.

Post #99, Lottie again. She's been looking at Kitanna and I, and ends up deciding to vote for me based on Kitanna supporting Agan earlier in the day. So, what I'm getting from this is... if you support Agan, you're not suspicious, but as per what Lottie said previously, if you're skeptical of Agan's claim (cf. everyone else who's posted thus far), you're not really suspicious either? :rolleyes:

And that's me caught up.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Recently is relative in Werewolf these days. I'm referring to recent games, not necessarily games that were played recently (which is definitely not how I should have worded that, but oh well). You've been quite frustrated at being killed in absentia (which I understand, as it's happened to me too, grumble grumble), and with Legate facing the same fate recently while on your side, I'm unwilling to believe you'd throw me so casually under the bus without giving me a chance to defend myself. Rather, I'm willing to believe it, but I don't think that was the situation yesterDay.



Honey. Honey. You know how much I'm lynched. It's sort of a lot, and often for little or no reason. You're right in that Agan wasn't necessarily in trouble, but I didn't say she was; I said you were shifting focus onto me and away from someone else.

More importantly, just look at how much you jumped when I poked you.... :rolleyes:


EDIT: x'd with Farael

Agan being in trouble at the time makes it a way bigger red flag than it would have been otherwise

Uh... you wanna try running that last bit by me one more time? :confused:

Also, if you want to talk about jumping when poked, let's talk about how you came into the day with suspicions aimed right at me, solely because I literally threw away a principle vote on you yesterday. I was literally not even suspicious of you. It was Day 1.

Did I jump when you poked me? Maybe. But I've been getting poked by Lottie all day (even if I wasn't here for it).

[Nerwen]

The Tally
Farael —> McCaber (0.5)
Rikae —> Kitanna (1)
Loslote —> Shasta (1)
Sally —> Shasta (2)
Farael (again) —> McCaber (1)

[Aganzir]

Heyy I'm here. I'm afraid I won't be very useful though, another bad night (this time with no WW dreams though) and I'm knackered, and it doesn't really help that my corner of the world only gets about 5 hours of daylight at this time of year.

Okay reading.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Alright, I've really got to get to bed. I guess no one else is around right now...

I'd love to vote for Lottie, but in the interests of self-preservation it's looking like I'll have to vote Kit or McCaber, and of the two...

++McCaber

Good night.

[Aganzir]

And if Agan is not a wolf, I'm a known innocent with no ranger and therefore dead. Bummer.
Well you should still get one more day than me!

Agan was about to get lynched when she (you are a she, right?) revealed she was Galadriel.
No, my personal title is "Woman of Secret Shadow" just to mess with your heads. :p (I am, and I know it's long since we've played.)

The wolves went for Boro for some reason, and left Agan alive
They did. The narration was clear about it, as well as about Nimrodel not knowing Boro was drowning not far away.

Really though I must ask - if I was a wolf impersonating the seer, why would I kill no-trace one-liner Boro when his death doesn't offer even a scrap of an excuse for why I'm still alive?

Then Agan goes out and gives us a "known" Ordo (Rikae). Why would she do that?
Why does a seer ever reveal her dreams?

In other words, she encouraged our last remaining gifted to drop hints of her identity... why? What does she win by showing herself on Day 2 when (presumably) she isn't under suspicion?
Exactly! Which is why I didn't out her straight away when I could have.

I think McCaber was in a pretty safe position to try a little Wolf-on-Wolf action, or at least cast a safe vote with iffy reasoning.
I would never let a fellow wolf-on-wolf me on day 1, not unless I was sure I'd been seer dreamed. His vote was iffy but I don't think iffy in a wolfish way (just because the phrasing was so obviously suspicious), it looked more like a cobbler trying to communicate to the wolves.

[Nerwen]

Tally update
Farael —> McCaber (0.5)
Rikae —> Kitanna (1)
Loslote —> Shasta (1)
Sally —> Shasta (2)
Farael (again) —> McCaber (1)
Shasta —> McCaber (2)

Left to vote: Aganzir, Kitanna, McCaber, Coppermirror.

[Nerwen]

DL in one hour.

[Kitanna]

I'm here and desperately trying to catch up so I can make an informed vote. Don't know if that's going to happen.

[Coppermirror]

This is getting very hard. Realistically the only options to vote for are Kitanna, Shasta and McCaber, but Kitanna and McCaber have votes against them and are in situations where they probably want to hold back their votes in case they need to save themselves. And Aganzir is likely to be a wolf (albeit that there's also a slim possibly she's the Seer), which means I should assume for toDay that her vote is going to be a bad one.

I don't feel all that suspicious of Shasta. McCaber could have been acting like a Cobbler but we don't even know if we have a cobbler...If we knew what Agan's status is it might be easier to guess about him. And Kitanna looked okay on Day 1 but her vote was a throwaway and she hasn't posted much toDay, which means she's very hard to judge indeed.

Edit: crossed with Kitanna

[Aganzir]

The only particular thing I could find from Boro was the use of the phrase “getting inside your head,” which, knowing how clever my prince can be, may have been picked up on by the wolves as a hint toward the seer’s true identity.
That would be wolves who haven't played much with him before because everybody knows he does his best to suggest he's just about every possible role on day 1.

I think his logic this Day and the last has been sound (and not just because he voted Agan, promise)
How exactly is it sound logic to vote for someone because "they might be a wolf or a gifted"?

I'll reevaluate this later, as I know both of these ladies are capable of that level of shenanigans if not more
I wish that was indeed the case, it would be so much more fun than sort of hanging here looking people reach the wrong conclusions when even my dream doesn't believe me. :D

I think you're innocent every game (and you know that, because you've used that against me, and I know you've done it.)
Awww this made me laugh! You know sally I too thought about voting for you if I couldn't justify a better vote but for opposite reasons, I think you're evil in every game.

It's highly ironic though that I don't suspect sally for the very reason that she's suspecting me so heavily. :rolleyes: Well that, and she didn't lynch me when she could have. Also I feel if sally was a wolf, she would have got rid of me as soon as convenient because of our mutual history.

I really don't like the way Lottie takes my guilt for granted, but then, I sort of understand why it's a logical assumption, so I'm not sure I like that Shasta is suspecting her for being rational.

I don't really mind who I'm voting.

[Aganzir]

How would you two feel about voting for Lottie?

[McCaber]

Man, that was one of the worst Day 1's I've seen in quite some time. And I'll accept the lion's share of the blame for how it turned out. I knew saying that Agan could be either a wolf or a gifted could come back at me, but I hoped that if I brought it up before anyone else it would be less of an issue. YesterDay I thought she was a wolf, toDay I am much less convinced.

Anyway, I did make it back with just enough time to vote. But Shasta looks innocent to me and I haven't gotten a read from Kitanna yet.

[Aganzir]

I knew saying that Agan could be either a wolf or a gifted could come back at me, but I hoped that if I brought it up before anyone else it would be less of an issue.
Thing is why would you say it in the first place if you're innocent? If an innocent thinks somebody could be gifted, the best they can do is keep very quiet about it, hoping the wolves don't notice!

[McCaber]

Thing is why would you say it in the first place if you're innocent? If an innocent thinks somebody could be gifted, the best they can do is keep very quiet about it, hoping the wolves don't notice!

I said that gifted were more likely to be active on Day 1, and that I had thought you were a wolf. Those two thoughts are not contradictory.

[Aganzir]

Meh. Under ordinary circumstances I wouldn't really want to vote for any of the people who have votes so far. I have nothing on Shasta and Kitanna, and I feel McC is a cobbler at most, which isn't what we need at this point.

[Aganzir]

I said that gifted were more likely to be active on Day 1, and that I had thought you were a wolf. Those two thoughts are not contradictory.
No but still dangerous - the wolves knew I couldn't be a wolf, so to them, you were effectively saying "Agan is probably gifted".

[McCaber]

No but still dangerous - the wolves knew I couldn't be a wolf, so to them, you were effectively saying "Agan is probably gifted".

You weren't the only one posting at the time.

[Kitanna]

A lot of people doubt Agan's claim and yet decide to leave her alive? Because?
I don't follow this logic. No one, but me seems to really be entertaining the idea she's innocent. And yet no one is willing to vote for her. I get wanting to do the wait and see method, but come on. If so many think she'sprobably guilty remove your doubt.

[Aganzir]

You weren't the only one posting at the time.
Makes no difference - obviously a lot depends on timezones and personal playing styles, but an innocent would never want to point out somebody who behaves in a certain way could be a gifted! Those thoughts are best kept to ourselves because it won't help he village, it'll help the wolves.

[Nerwen]

DL in five minutes.

[Farael]

A lot of people doubt Agan's claim and yet decide to leave her alive? Because?

Morning all, I just woke up. But to clarify here, my reasoning is that we have more than one wolf and so why vote for a potential (if unlikely) Seer when there is at least one more wolf to hunt down?

If I'm wrong about her, she won't last the night. If I'm right then she will

[Aganzir]

A lot of people doubt Agan's claim and yet decide to leave her alive? Because?
I don't follow this logic. No one, but me seems to really be entertaining the idea she's innocent.
Thanks Kit, greatly appreciated. <3

[Kitanna]

I don't want to have another throwaway vote, but I'm not finding those with votes suspicious enough to vote for.

I'd rather vote for Sally, Rikae, or Lottie. Though Agan asking if those remaining want to vote Lottie worries me. Seems like Agan trying to lead us astray.

[Aganzir]

I don't want to have another throwaway vote, but I'm not finding those with votes suspicious enough to vote for.

I'd rather vote for Sally, Rikae, or Lottie. Though Agan asking if those remaining want to vote Lottie worries me. Seems like Agan trying to lead us astray.
Rikae is innocent.

[McCaber]

Well, I know I'm innocent, so to have a chance at saving my own skin I need to vote

++ Shasta

[Aganzir]

Whatever

++McCaber

for potential cobbling

[Nerwen]

Deadline. No more posting.

[Nerwen]

Now where did I put that coin?

[Kitanna]

++sally

Edit: crap, I wasn't fast enough

[Nerwen]

When dawn flamed over the Golden Wood, the Elves were most surprised to find the supposed Galadriel still amongst them. Surely, they reasoned, the evil ones would never have left so dangerous an Elf alive... if Aganzir were really what she claimed to be.

Aganzir's protestations of being equally astonished were met with scepticism. Yet, despite the general feeling that she must be evil, somehow nobody actually suggested killing her. There was always the chance, however remote, that she was telling the truth. And then, too, there was that about the Elf-woman's steely glare that made the others very unwilling to take her on, outnumber her though they might.

"If you're not going to kill me," she said, "then how about- McCaber? He voted to lynch me yesterDay!"

"Huh?" McCaber mumbled through a mouthful of lembas.. "How is that a reason? Practically everyone here thinks you're evil!"

"It was the way you did it," Farael explained. "A very sinister, evil sort of way."

"Yes," said Shasta. "Besides, you talk with your mouth full."

"Disgusting," Aganzir agreed. "You're either one of these terrible werewolves, or a traitor in our midst. Either way it's shameful of you to eat our lembas, and I hope you choke- now there's a thought!"

"Wha-" McCaber began, but before he could finish the word, Aganzir had jammed a cake of lembas down his windpipe. The hapless Wood Elf staggered about, clutching his throat, his face turning purple. He collapsed across a branch, jerked once, twice and was still.

That was all. There was no change, no transformation into the natural shape of a monster of the night. McCaber had been innocent.

~~~~~~

The Living
Sally
Lottie
Farael
Rikae
Shasta
Coppermirror
Kitanna
Aganzir

The Dead
Nerwen, throat torn out Night One. (Mod).
Tar-Jêx, thrown off a flet Day One. (Ranger/Lover).
Boro, dragged under by a swan-submarine Night Two. (Ordo).
McCaber, choked on lembas Day Two. (Ordo).


It is now Night Two. Wolves plot, Seer dream, Nimrodel... do your thing.

[Nerwen]

Aganzir laughed silently to herself as she ran, leapt and climbed through the dark tree-city. She and her kind had sown fear and distrust amongst the Galadhrim and, even better, had caused the death of their ruler. Surely her dark master would be pleased!

But the greatest triumph of all lay before her, for she was certain, now, that she had seen through the disguise of the Lady Galadriel. Still, the Lady would be a formidable opponent. As she raced up the stair that led to her victim's flet, Aganzir allowed her Elven semblance to fall from her. Her face became a muzzle; fur sprouted over her; she dropped to all fours.

She was halfway between Elven and bestial form when she felt a blow in her chest. She looked down in disbelief at the feathered shaft protruding from her furry ribcage, then up at the slender figure who stood at the top of the stairs, holding a bow and arrow.

"To save your own sorry hide you betrayed my beloved Amroth to his death," the icy voice rang out, "and therefore it will be you who shall first be felled by my wrath!"

"Nerdanel!" the injured werewolf gasped.

"It's Nimrodel! How dare you call me by the name of one of the cruel, invading Noldor! Take that!"

And she shot Aganzir between the eyes.

In death, the werewolf transformed fully into its hideous true shape. Nimrodel, having made sure all life had departed from the corpse, stood looking down at the furry bulk that blotched the moonlit stair. There was, she realised, no peace for her in bringing justice to one of Amroth's murderers. Only when the last one lay dead at her hand- only when she had killed them, all of them- then, perhaps, she would know peace.

A throaty chuckle broke into the Elf-maiden's bloody thoughts. Whirling, she saw a second great wolf descending the stairs. She shot at the beast, but with an ease more feline than lupine, it leapt onto a mallorn bough overhead and sat there, gazing down at her with eyes that glowed green in the moonlight.

"Well met!" said the werewolf. "And thank you. Aganzir had outlived her usefulness- you have done us a service by disposing of her."

Nimrodel's eyes searched the surrounding foliage, but the leaves were too dense for her to be able to tell if the wolf was alone.

"Us? Are there more of you? And who are you? I charge you, tell me your name!"

"Now wouldn't you like to know?" laughed the wolf.


~~~~~~

The Living
Sally
Lottie
Farael
Rikae
Shasta
Coppermirror
Kitanna

The Dead
Nerwen, throat torn out Night One. (Mod).
Tar-Jêx, thrown off a flet Day One. (Ranger/Lover).
Boro, dragged under by a swan-submarine Night Two. (Ordo).
McCaber, choked on lembas Day Two. (Ordo).
Aganzir, shot with bow-and-arrow Night Three. (Werewolf).


It is now Day Three. You may post.

[Rikae]

I have to leave immediately and won't be back for several hours, but I just wanted to say:

WOW!

Nice work, Nimrodel! Looks like I was right about a couple things. And we still have a seer, too.

[Farael]

Nice work, Nimrodel! Looks like I was right about a couple things. And we still have a seer, too.

Not only that, but there was no wolf kill. Which means we also have a Ranger!

Now, the Ranger and Hunter are likely the same person... but we also have a seer. And the Seer has been dreaming for a few nights now.

Any chance we have enough known Ordos to figure out the last wolf/wolves?

Otherwise I'll take a closer look at Rikae for obvious reasons. Unfortunately I have an 8 hour day in the OR and gym afterwards. .. so I won't be able to post much until then

[satansaloser2005]

I feel like maybe Nimrodel should come out first as a precaution, but if I'm reading the narration correctly, it sounds like the wolves have already found the seer, so that could be a moot point. Thoughts, Nimrodel? What do you do around here anyway?

Off to work. Back perhaps over breaks and/or lunch.

[Farael]

I feel like maybe Nimrodel should come out first as a precaution.
Precaution against what, exactly? If the wolves have figured out who the Seer is, shouldn't the Seer come out first and tell us of any known Ordos?

There's seven of us, two gifted, which means that there's one or two wolves out of five people. If the Seer has dreamed of two or more Ordos, we should be able to wrap things up nicely just by making a plan of who of the unknowns to Lynch

[Coppermirror]

The narration made me think that the wolves tried to kill Nimrodel last Night, in which case they know who she is.

There was, she realised, no peace for her in bringing justice to one of Amroth's murderers. Only when the last one lay dead at her hand- only when she had killed them, all of them- then, perhaps, she would know peace.

Three people voted for Tar-Jêx: Kitanna, Aganzir, and Sally.

I think that maybe Nimrodel can only hunt people who voted for Amroth. Then again, she didn't seem to feel positively inclined towards the non-Agan wolf/wolves in the narration, so perhaps she just became an ordinary hunter.

[Coppermirror]

But the greatest triumph of all lay before her, for she was certain, now, that she had seen through the disguise of the Lady Galadriel. Still, the Lady would be a formidable opponent. As she raced up the stair that led to her victim's flet, Aganzir allowed her Elven semblance to fall from her. Her face became a muzzle; fur sprouted over her; she dropped to all fours.

Oh wait, my mistake. I didn't see the bit about Agan thinking she'd found Galadriel. So Nimrodel's some sort of Ranger/Hunter.

[Nerwen]

The ghost of Nerwen wishes you all to know that, although the narration is, if read correctly, an accurate record, the events that befell last Night were strange indeed.

That is all I will say on the subject.

*returns to the Halls of Mandos*

[Loslote]

Wow! Well, we did say Agan would either show up dead toDay or would definitely be a wolf. :D

In the narration, it looks like there were only two wolves after all. Nimrodel asked if there were more, but usually, if there are more, they'd all show up in the narration, am I right? In that case, we might well be down to a 1-6 split! I second Farael's motion for a Seer reveal - hopefully that'll narrow the numbers down even more.

Also, my flights were delayed (I got stuck in Minnesota overnight :eek:) so I'll be flying up to Alaska later today, which means I'll probably be gone for most of the Day. I'll do my best to check in, but my available time for werewolf will probably be spotty at best.

[Loslote]

Addition to the idea that Galadriel should reveal toDay: if Nimrodel's ranger powers are the same as Amroth's, she can't protect the same person twice in a row, and the narration made it sound like she already protected Galadriel last Night.

[Coppermirror]

the narration made it sound like she already protected Galadriel last Night.

I'm not sure that the narration says that the wolves actually targeted Galadriel so much as that the wolves were trying to target Galadriel and thought they had probably guessed the right person this time. They may or may not have guessed correctly. At any rate, I don't think the narration actually confirms whether they picked the right person. It just says that Agan was certain she had the right person.

[satansaloser2005]

As it turns out, I'm incredibly impatient.

++Shasta

Agan should learn not to impersonate me. Why would she think she could get away with such a thing? She's in another country, she's much prettier than me, and it gets her killed.

:smokin:

EDIT: x'd with Cop

[Coppermirror]

Wow, did you dream of a wolf Shasta, then?

[Loslote]

This might be village victory, then, right?

++Shasta

[Farael]

Not that I NECESSARILY distrust Sally but are we 100% SURE that there were two wolves? A wolf has already pretended to be the Seer... and why hasn't our alleged Seer told us of any other of her dreams?

I counsel caution here... Sally please tell me some more about you

[Rikae]

Whoa, whoa there, hold on people.

First off, calling for reveals is premature. We don't know that the seer dreams are all still alive - if they are, yeah, a seer reveal of three dreams + seer would narrow our unknowns down to three people, but if not, it really would be unwise.

Second, we don't know that there's any kind of ranger at all. "Very strange" suggests there isn't, and something else prevented the wolf kill, quite possibly something we can't count on in the future.

Third, the narration suggests there are three wolves.

Lottie, what the heck are you doing? Sally, you'll have to give us more than that.

[Rikae]

Or rather, the narration suggests there were three wolves, and now are two.

Hmm...

Or perhaps there was a cursed, and that's who the wolves attacked...

[Loslote]

First off, calling for reveals is premature. We don't know that the seer dreams are all still alive - if they are, yeah, a seer reveal of three dreams + seer would narrow our unknowns down to three people, but if not, it really would be unwise.

Second, we don't know that there's any kind of ranger at all. "Very strange" suggests there isn't, and something else prevented the wolf kill, quite possibly something we can't count on in the future.

Either way, the narration said the Agan was going after Galadriel, and if she was right, she'll be back again toNight, and we'd have lost our Seer. Even if that's not a guarantee, I think the risk that the wolves know who the Seer is and that they'll kill her as soon as they can is great enough to justify a reveal, especially since we're far enough in the game that the dreams can be useful - especially since I believe Sally's reveal - she wasn't in any danger of being lynched, and if she lied about Shasta being a wolf, we'll know toMorrow and lynch her accordingly. A fake reveal from Sally at this point in the game doesn't make sense.

Third, the narration suggests there are three wolves.

Oh. I misinterpreted it, then, my bad. Still, even if it was three wolves, we'll be down to just the one wolf after toDay, so that's still not bad.

[Loslote]

Or perhaps there was a cursed, and that's who the wolves attacked...

Huh. That would be 'strange indeed', so I guess that could be it. That's...not as good.

[Coppermirror]

♪
When the wolves went forth a-seeking where Galadriel might dwell,
Upon Aganzir fell the wrath of the mighty Nimrodel.
To avenge the fallen lord Amroth, she took up her strongest bow,
And when the wolf went up the stairs she laid that monster low.

O who would falsely play the Seer, bringing wicked lies?
Why, one for whom the end is brought if on them the Seer spies!
Deceitful Agan, she is gone, and now forth Sally comes.
If in truth she is Galadriel, to wolves we won't succumb.
♪

Well, probably. We still can't be sure how many wolves there are left. And we do need to be certain that Sally is the Seer, and it would be good to know what her dreams were. The narration suggests that there could be more than one wolf remaining, but also refrains from making it clear...I agree, perhaps there is a cursed involved after all. That does seem to fit the situation better than Nimrodel being a Lover/Hunter/Ranger.

[satansaloser2005]

FYI, I'm at work and won't be saying anything more of consequence until I'm home in about four and a half hours.

Would the real Nimrodel please step forward? If so, and that reveal doesn't conflict with what else I know, we'll know the roles of almost the entire village.

I must dash! Until later, my loves!

[Coppermirror]

Assuming that Sally's telling the truth and that she dreamed of a Shastawolf, and that as of last Night there may now be a Cursed wolf, I should apologise for failing to vote on Day 2. What happened was that I plain couldn't decide who to vote for, but didn't feel comfortable leaving Agan, who hadn't voted yet, in a place where she could be the one to decide the outcome. So I got a half-baked idea that maybe I would wait to see who Agan voted for and vote the opposing way. But, possibly anticipating that, she placed her vote part way through the final minute before the deadline, and I was too slow.

[Rikae]

Would the real Nimrodel please step forward? If so, and that reveal doesn't conflict with what else I know, we'll know the roles of almost the entire village.


Oh, you'd like that, wouldn't you? If you're the seer, you've had three dreams, and I for one think you should tell us about them before anyone else reveals anything.

[Farael]

. A fake reveal from Sally at this point in the game doesn't make sense

Are we sure we don't have a cobbler? I really wish i was home to be able to read up on things

[Rikae]

Either way, the narration said the Agan was going after Galadriel, and if she was right, she'll be back again toNight, and we'd have lost our Seer. Even if that's not a guarantee, I think the risk that the wolves know who the Seer is and that they'll kill her as soon as they can is great enough to justify a reveal, especially since we're far enough in the game that the dreams can be useful - especially since I believe Sally's reveal - she wasn't in any danger of being lynched, and if she lied about Shasta being a wolf, we'll know toMorrow and lynch her accordingly. A fake reveal from Sally at this point in the game doesn't make sense.


If she's honest she can and should tell us everything she knows. In fact, she hasn't even called herself the seer, or Shasta a wolf.

I wonder... let me go check something.

[Rikae]

Just looking at Shasta/Sally interactions. Seems he did suspect her, and the reasons look a little fabricated to me, but he went after Lottie far more strongly.
I could, however, see a wolf-Sally thinking Shasta was the seer. Or perhaps Shasta was the cursed...? Sally could decide to sacrifice him and win our trust long enough to win the game.

This may seem paranoid, but she's expecting people to trust her before she's given us much of anything, and that doesn't sit right with me.

[Rikae]

Actually, now that I work it out, she couldn't win our trust long enough to win (2 wolf 5 innocent toDay, 1 wolf 4 innocent toMorrow, 1 wolf 2 innocent day-after-tomorrow) - not unless there are three wolves left (3 wolf 5 innocent, 2 wolf 3 innocent, 2 wolf 1 innocent).
But it was 2-3, which I'm now thinking almost certainly means a cursed and we have 2 wolves right now.
Perhaps she's sure Shasta is the seer and believes she's already doomed, and sees an opportunity to get him lynched AND out Nimrodel, going out in a blaze of glory. I could definitely see Sally doing that.

I'm not saying she can't be the seer but I absolutely think all voting and/or revealing should wait until she comes back and gives us a more complete reveal to work with.

[Coppermirror]

I could, however, see a wolf-Sally thinking Shasta was the seer. Or perhaps Shasta was the cursed...? Sally could decide to sacrifice him and win our trust long enough to win the game.

Let's see. Assuming a worst case scenario that there are two wolves and that Sally is one of them... (But not factoring in Nimrodel and any hunting she might do.)

Scenario A - sacrificial wolf Shasta

Day 3 - starts with 5 innocents, 2 wolves.
We kill a guilty Shasta on a wolf-Sally's advice.
5 innocents, 1 wolf.

Night 4. The wolf kills an innocent.
4 innocents, 1 wolf.

Day 4. If the true Seer died on Day 3 or Night 4, we kill a guilty Sally. Game over, village victory.

If the Seer is still alive, they come forward. Believing Sally, we kill the true Seer.
3 innocents, 1 wolf

Night 5. The wolf kills an innocent.
2 innocents, 1 wolf.

Day 5. The remaining two innocents kill the guilty Sally. Game over, village victory.

So, I think that a sacrificial wolf Shasta would not work.


Scenario B - innocent Shasta

Day 3 - starts with 5 innocents, 2 wolves.
We kill an innocent Shasta on a wolf-Sally's advice.
4 innocents, 2 wolves.

Night 4. Wolves kill an innocent.
3 innocents, 2 wolves.

Day 4. We kill a guilty Sally.
3 innocents, 1 wolf.

Night 5. The wolf kills an innocent.
2 innocents, 1 wolf.

Day 5. Vote decides the matter between two innocents and one wolf. Game over, could go to wolves or could go to village. However, if the true Seer had had any useful dreams to tell us at some point or we had additional info, that could make the odds better.

Is my reasoning in the above scenarios correct?

[satansaloser2005]

Nerwen, give me strength. :rolleyes:

[Rikae]

Let's see. Assuming a worst case scenario that there are two wolves and that Sally is one of them... (But not factoring in Nimrodel and any hunting she might do.)

Scenario A - sacrificial wolf Shasta

Day 3 - starts with 5 innocents, 2 wolves.
We kill a guilty Shasta on a wolf-Sally's advice.
5 innocents, 1 wolf.

Night 4. The wolf kills an innocent.
4 innocents, 1 wolf.

Day 4. If the true Seer died on Day 3 or Night 4, we kill a guilty Sally. Game over, village victory.

If the Seer is still alive, they come forward. Believing Sally, we kill the true Seer.
3 innocents, 1 wolf

Night 5. The wolf kills an innocent.
2 innocents, 1 wolf.

Day 5. The remaining two innocents kill the guilty Sally. Game over, village victory.

So, I think that a sacrificial wolf Shasta would not work.



Yes, that's what I was just saying in my last post.


Scenario B - innocent Shasta

Day 3 - starts with 5 innocents, 2 wolves.
We kill an innocent Shasta on a wolf-Sally's advice.
4 innocents, 2 wolves.

Night 4. Wolves kill an innocent.
3 innocents, 2 wolves.

Day 4. We kill a guilty Sally.
3 innocents, 1 wolf.

Night 5. The wolf kills an innocent.
2 innocents, 1 wolf.

Day 5. Vote decides the matter between two innocents and one wolf. Game over, could go to wolves or could go to village. However, if the true Seer had had any useful dreams to tell us at some point or we had additional info, that could make the odds better.


This is why this would make sense if Sally is convinced Shasta is the seer & he dreamed of her already - she'd be doomed, so she may as well take him (and Nimrodel) down with her. And of course it would be better for her to reveal before Shasta did, since it would give her a better chance of misleading innocent votes.
All this hinges on her not having a plausible story when she gets back - we'll see.

[Farael]

Thanks for doing the math, Copper

I'm still wondering about a Sally cobbler. She would count as an innocent in the end-game, so sacrificing herself to bring out the true Seer AND Hunter would be a heck of a move. It means today we Lynch an innocent (ish), tonight the wolves nab the Seer and (depending on what a potentially true Seer would have to say today), we might not be any closer to a resolution.

Also, we might be making a mistake and assuming the remaining lover is in our side.

What if they are a side of their own? !

In that case we may have to be extra careful with what we assume they may do.

I think there are too many unknowns right now, and Sally's reveal was very... unclear at best.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Rikae, I didn't actually suspect Sally. I did, and do, suspect Lottie, though, which makes her early jump on to Sally's vote pretty much par for the course.

[satansaloser2005]

Sally please tell me some more about you

Very well. As you wish.


~~~~~~~~

Single elf seer seeking trusting villagers to help eradicate wolf infestation. I'm a Taurus (but I don't drive one), I like short walks to the cupcake store, and my hobbies include catching wolves and staring quizzically at villagers who don't believe me. My favorite color is wolf blood red, and my favorite food is the humble pie the wolves will be eating at the end of this game. If you respond to my reveal, we'll have a lovely evening ridding ourselves of pesky wolves and doing a victory dance (though this may have to wait until our second date if there is a cursed around). Please respond by voting for the known wolf I've given you toDay.

~~~~~~~~


Hello. I'm back.

[Farael]

Very well. As you wish.


~~~~~~~~

Single elf seer seeking trusting villagers to help eradicate wolf infestation. I'm a Taurus (but I don't drive one), I like short walks to the cupcake store, and my hobbies include catching wolves and staring quizzically at villagers who don't believe me. My favorite color is wolf blood red, and my favorite food is the humble pie the wolves will be eating at the end of this game. If you respond to my reveal, we'll have a lovely evening ridding ourselves of pesky wolves and doing a victory dance (though this may have to wait until our second date if there is a cursed around). Please respond by voting for the known wolf I've given you toDay.

~~~~~~~~


Hello. I'm back.

Cheeky :p believe me, I WANT to trust you! But I'm going to need a bit more than what you've given me. Who else have you dreamed about? Surely now it's not the time to hold back, any known Ordos you can give us will narrow the search for a possible third wolf

[satansaloser2005]

Both of my other dreams are ordinary villagers. Yes, I said are; both of them are still alive. I'd like Nimrodel to reveal first purely so that if one of the innocents has been turned and they lie about their role in an attempt to clear themselves, I'll know they have been changed. It's a slim chance, but, well, this is a trippy game, man.

[Farael]

I'm not sure I follow your logic here. By revealing Shasta you've made it so that the only person with an incentive to fake reveal is him.

Why would a fake lover come out, when you would know better? And why are we all assuming the lover is on our side?

[satansaloser2005]

For those of you who want a bit more, I'm amenable to revealing this now: I dreamt of Shasta Night 1. Observe.

Now, now, love. That's not nice. I understand you're upset about your precious one being gone, but there's no reason to take it out on me. I am not a werewolf. *harrumphs*

There's my first hint (bolding mine because italicization won't show in quotes).

There's one wolf down in my head....

There's my second.

My prince must be avenged!

This was highlighted in the original post purely for the sake of a later remark and also to help point out my other dream result if I was killed in the Night. It was also highlighted because how dare the wolves kill Boro that early in the game. :mad:

Each Day the seer lives is another Day they could reveal a wolf.

Here's another tip that I've caught a wolf.

Agan being in trouble at the time makes it a way bigger red flag than it would have been otherwise, but your timing looks incredibly sketch, and I'm an easy bandwagon, which is why I think you picked me.

The red flag comment here was meant to reinforce the highlighted note about Boro above. Also, my apologies to Shasta; I had meant to put "in trouble" in quotes to indicate the debatable nature of Agan's status at the time, but I was sleepy at the time and apparently forgot to add said punctuation. That was unintentionally contradictory of me. Whoops.


x'd with Farael

[satansaloser2005]

Why would a fake lover come out, when you would know better?

Because they don't know who I've dreamt, and they might find it worth it to take their chance to add themselves to the "known" innocent camp. Wolves are weird, man. They'll try a lot of wacky things. *cough* Agan *cough*

Also because y'all were rude to me and have been calling me a cobbler for half the freaking Day, so make it up to me a little. :p

[Farael]

Well, in that case I'll sit and wait to see who else has something to say about this... you are being rather odd... but I've been gone for too long to recall if this is your normal :p

[Coppermirror]

Whoever Sally dreamed of on Night 2 might have been turned into a wolf later, but since if anyone was wolfified it was on Night 3, there's a possiblity that the innocent Sally dreamed that Night is the only person who could be counted as a known innocent. Might it depend on exactly when Nerwen-moddess gave out the information?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I wanted to make a cheeky, amusing reveal, but I'm a bit distracted at the moment. Sorry. So here, I'm Nimrodel, I show up to the Seer as a wolf, I can do two things at night (and no I'm not telling you what they are).

Back in a bit if anyone has questions.

[Kitanna]

I realize I am playing a pretty terrible game and have barely been here and I am sorry, but...

++Shasta

I'm choosing to believe Sally because my dog died today and I am most certainly not in the mood to pick posts apart right now.

[satansaloser2005]

I wanted to make a cheeky, amusing reveal, but I'm a bit distracted at the moment. Sorry. So here, I'm Nimrodel, I show up to the Seer as a wolf, I can do two things at night (and no I'm not telling you what they are).

Back in a bit if anyone has questions.

Bollocks. You showed up as a wolf before Jex was even lynched, so even if something went wonky with Nimrodel's role when Jex was killed, it wouldn't have affected my dream of you.

I do have a question though! Would you like to be barbecued or slow roasted? ;)


EDIT: x'd with Kit. Oh no! I'm so sorry, love. *hugs*

[Farael]

Well, that settles it for me. There's no guarantee Nimrodel is on the Ordo team, and since you refuse to say what you can do AND show up as a wolf... I say we Lynch you.

It's a safe "reveal" to make, since you have nothing to lose. If What you say is true, I doubt you have my best interests at heart. If you are trying to flush out the real Nimrodel then you are a wolf

++ Shasta

Edit:phone filled in the wrong word

[Farael]

I'm choosing to believe Sally because my dog died today and I am most certainly not in the mood to pick posts apart right now.

I'm really sorry :( *hugs *

[satansaloser2005]

So I'm thinking Nimrodel should step up now. Yes/yes? :Merisu:

[Coppermirror]

++ Shasta

I'm choosing to believe Sally because my dog died today and I am most certainly not in the mood to pick posts apart right now.

I'm sorry to hear that about your dog. My condolences.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Bollocks. You showed up as a wolf before Jex was even lynched, so even if something went wonky with Nimrodel's role when Jex was killed, it wouldn't have affected my dream of you.

I do have a question though! Would you like to be barbecued or slow roasted? ;)


EDIT: x'd with Kit. Oh no! I'm so sorry, love. *hugs*

Bollocks yourself. I literally show up as a wolf to the Seer and have since the beginning of the game, so any time you want to stop putting words in my mouth, feel free. But whatever, there's no way I'm getting out of five votes at this point, but for the record, I never said Sally's claim was false, so everyone who voted me because they "believe Sally"... great job there.

[Coppermirror]

If there's a Nerwen-moddess around, would you consider answering this question? For the purposes of this question, setting aside whether there actually is a cursed villager who became a wolf last Night, if there had been one, and if the Seer had dreamed of that person last Night, would you have told the Seer the updated information about that person, or would you have told them the non-updated information?

[Rikae]

I'm sorry to hear about your dog, Kitanna.

Well, my vote actually doesn't count anymore at this point. What Sally's saying about a cursed-dreamed-ordo false revealing as Nimrodel sounds like utter nonsense, for the record, but so does Shasta's "I show up as a wolf".

Whatever.

++Noam Chomsky

Sally, if you're the seer, please plainly reveal your ordos before the end of the day. If your hints are like the ones about Shasta I wouldn't count on us finding them.

[Nerwen]

If there's a Nerwen-moddess around, would you consider answering this question? For the purposes of this question, setting aside whether there actually is a cursed villager who became a wolf last Night, if there had been one, and if the Seer had dreamed of that person last Night, would you have told the Seer the updated information about that person, or would you have told them the non-updated information?
Obviously this is a rather difficult question for me to answer. To my way of thinking, this hypothetical Cursed would probably not have assumed wolf status until the Night was over- so would *not* have shown up to the Seer as a wolf last Night.

The above should not be taken as confirming any part of your scenario, however.

[satansaloser2005]

Sally, if you're the seer, please plainly reveal your ordos before the end of the day.

My ordos, she says. :rolleyes: Then again, she's not among them, so I shouldn't be terribly surprised.

I am back and will read and cackle a bit before I reveal my other dreams and go to bed.

[satansaloser2005]

Known roles:
Shasta (wolf)
Copper (ordo)
Farael (ordo)
Sally (seer, duh)

Unknown roles:
Lottie
Rikae
Kitanna

In case anyone cares, the dreams are listed above in order.

[satansaloser2005]

Having put some pressure on the village to wait on my information, I'll note that Rikae seemed more perturbed by the wait than I believe an innocent her would have been. She really seemed to turn sour after I said my dreams were all alive, which is another point of interest to consider after I am inevitably gone toMorrow. I could well be wrong and she's just annoyed, but this smells of a furry Rikae realizing the tightness of her present spot. If there's a third wolf, I could think of no better candidate.



Note that we could (read, should) have at least a 1/3 chance of nabbing the last wolf (if there is one) toMorrow. The fact that Nimrodel didn't reveal and make it 50/50 makes me think they may not be aligned with the village, or that they are and their role is best kept hidden, which hopefully means the wolves will have quite the interesting Night if they get another one at all. I could speculate further, but I'll be dead come the morn and it likely won't be relevant anyway.

[satansaloser2005]

I may be back in the morning just before, but it's pretty unlikely. For now, sleep!

*nuzzles her wolfy psychic wolf boy*

[Nerwen]

DL in half an hour.

[Nerwen]

The Tally
Sally --> Shasta (1)
Lottie --> Shasta (2)
Kitanna --> Shasta (3)
Farael --> Shasta (4)
Coppermirror --> Shasta (5)
Rikae --> Noam Chomsky (1)

Left to vote: Shasta.

Hmmn.

[Nerwen]

DL. Noam Chomsky has been lynched. He was a werewolf.

[Nerwen]

On discovering the corpse of wolf-Aganzir, the remaining Elves rejoiced, none more than Sally.

"Agan should have learned not to impersonate me," she said. "Why would she think she could get away with it?"

The Elves gasped collectively. "You mean you're..?"

"I am," Sally nodded, "and I'm incredibly impatient. Shasta, would you like to be barbecued or slow roasted?"

"Now just a moment, Lady Galadriel," said Shasta, turning pale, "perhaps you *thought* your Mirror showed me turning into one of these terrible creatures, but appearances can be deceiving. The fact is, I'm Nimrodel. I just happen to... er... to wear furry grey pajamas- that's probably what confused you."

But no-one believed him. However none of them felt in the mood for a werewolf-barbecue. Instead, Sally- or, rather, Galadriel, produced a coil of silken grey hithlain rope. "As we Elves always say, never travel far without a rope! It may be a help in many needs."

The Elves made the rope fast to a branch near the flet on which they had gathered, while Coppermirror struck up a ballad in honour of the occasion. Shasta fought with all the fury of the wolf he was accused of being, but he was powerless against their greater numbers. For all his struggles, his head was soon forced into a noose, and he was marched to the edge and given a sharp push into space.

Neck broken, Shasta's body swayed like a pendulum, back and forth. The only sound was the faint creaking of the branch from which he hung.

Just as the Elves were beginning to suspect they had been deceived yet again, grey fur began to grow from Shasta's skin. Other changes followed. Within moments, instead of a dead Elf, the corpse of a hanged werewolf swung before them.

~~~~~~

The Living
Sally
Lottie
Farael
Rikae
Coppermirror
Kitanna

The Dead
Nerwen, throat torn out Night One. (Mod).
Tar-Jêx, thrown off a flet Day One. (Ranger/Lover).
Boro, dragged under by a swan-submarine Night Two. (Ordo).
McCaber, choked on lembas Day Two. (Ordo).
Aganzir, shot with bow-and-arrow Night Three. (Werewolf).
Shasta, hanged with Elven rope Day Three. (Werewolf).


It is now Night Four.

[Nerwen]

"Would you like to be barbecued, Lady Galadriel," came the whisper on the night-wind, "or slow roasted?"

"Who said that?" Galadriel demanded, starting to her feet. But nothing moved on her flet, or in the branches around her. Only the mallorn leaves rustled faintly, as if stirred by the lightest of breezes.

Her nostrils twitched. The smell was faint, but surely it was the acrid smell of burning wood?

Rarely had the Lady been gripped by fear, but now it was like a chill hand closing about her throat.

"Show yourself, foul creature of darkness! Or if you are Nimrodel, end this folly-"

She broke off, coughing, for a wisp of smoke had drifted into her lungs. By the time she had recovered from her paroxysm, it was too late: roaring flames had leapt up all over her flet. Galadriel ran to the stairway, but it, too, was alight, a wall of fire beating her back. Soon the entire mallorn had become a pillar of flame.

~~~~~~

The Living
Lottie
Farael
Rikae
Coppermirror
Kitanna

The Dead
Nerwen, throat torn out Night One. (Mod).
Tar-Jêx, thrown off a flet Day One. (Ranger/Lover).
Boro, dragged under by a swan-submarine Night Two. (Ordo).
McCaber, choked on lembas Day Two. (Ordo).
Aganzir, shot with bow-and-arrow Night Three. (Werewolf).
Shasta, hanged with Elven rope Day Three. (Werewolf).
Sally, barbecued Night Four. (Seer).



It is now Day Four.

[Kitanna]

Known roles:
Shasta (wolf)
Copper (ordo)
Farael (ordo)
Sally (seer, duh)

Unknown roles:
Lottie
Rikae
Kitanna

In case anyone cares, the dreams are listed above in order.
Sooo, this game is utter insanity.

Assuming Nerwen would have told Sally if she dreamt Nimrodel (which why wouldn't she) that means one of these three unknowns is Nimrodel and one is a wolf and one is an ordo. I know I'm an ordo so will we be playing a round of musical reveals for the role of Nimrodel with the other two unknowns?

Thanks to Agan I'm not sure who to find guilty. Agan claimed to have dreamed Rikae innocent. Wolf on wolf? Wolf jumping on an innocent to confuse things later?

Then she suggested the remaining voters try to get Lottie lynched. Both Lottie and Rikae didn't believe Agan's reveal, but still didn't vote for her which I found odd then and I find odd now.

I have to get to work, but I'll be back around my lunch hour.

[Rikae]

Well, if we have a cursed, we don't actually know anything. However, if we don't, I at least can assume Kit and Lottie are wolf and Nimrodel, in some order.

I'm not sure why Sally thinks it's significant that I said "her ordos" - the ordos she dreamt, which obviously would not be all of us. If I were a wolf, I would have known she was the seer, and that she didn't dream of me. Defending Shasta, even indirectly, would have been the last thing I'd have wanted to do.

Yeah, yeah, I know, I could bluff, but it wouldn't have made sense. Neither did Sally's justification for trying to draw out Nimrodel, and get voters to follow her, before she revealed her dreams - and I should know by now that just becausesomeoneisn't making sense doesn't mean she's evil. But if that nonsense gets me lynched when we can't afford to lynch innocents, I'll be rather irritated.

I'm an ordo (believe it or not).
I suppose we can assume that Nimrodel is Kit or Lottie, in any case, cursed or no cursed.

I also suppose if there's a cursed, and it's Cop or Farael, we're doomed, since it doesn't make sense to go against what knowledge we have, flawed though it could be.
So, Kit and Lottie, what are you?


Edit: X'd with Copper. Edit: No wait, it was Kitanna - wait, what?

[Rikae]

So, either Kitanna's the wolf, or Farael or Copper is a cursed wolf.

I found Kit suspicious from the beginning - but then again, we don't even know there were three wolves from the beginning.

However, she did actually just ask why Lottie and I didn't try to lynch a seer we didn't trust. Seriously?

[Farael]

In the OR again, but I just wanted to check in. The idea that there may or may not be a cursed around is quite distressing. If we knew for sure, we could make far better plans!

I also wish I knew what Nimrodel's goals are, I'm still not convicted she's wholly on our side. But having her reveal how wouldn't necessarily help.

[Rikae]

Then she suggested the remaining voters try to get Lottie lynched. Both Lottie and Rikae didn't believe Agan's reveal, but still didn't vote for her which I found odd then and I find odd now.


I can't speak for Lottie, but in my case: because she could have been the seer.
I didn't trust Agan, either, but I didn't vote for her.
I just like someone claiming to be a seer to give me a reason to believe her, before I follow her advice. Sally wouldn't tell her dreams (which a wolf would have done, to avoid making a mistake) and she pushed Nimrodel to reveal first (which a wolf would have also done). So I didn't trust her. I hoped other people would wait to hear her whole story before voting, and I was annoyed that they didn't.

[Rikae]

In the OR again, but I just wanted to check in. The idea that there may or may not be a cursed around is quite distressing. If we knew for sure, we could make far better plans!

I also wish I knew what Nimrodel's goals are, I'm still not convicted she's wholly on our side. But having her reveal how wouldn't necessarily help.

We know Lottie is Nimrodel, so I think hearing from her exactly what she does can only help.

[Farael]

We know Lottie is Nimrodel, so I think hearing from her exactly what she does can only help.

We do? I absolutely missed that :s

[Rikae]

We do? I absolutely missed that :s

By process of elimination.
It isn't you or Copper, because Sally dreamed of you.
It isn't me, because if it was, I would tell you.
It isn't Kitanna because she claims to be an ordo as well.

[Farael]

We know Lottie is Nimrodel, so I think hearing from her exactly what she does can only help.
My highlight

And I'd add the quote of Rikae saying neither her or Kit can be Nimrodel because they both claim to be Ordos, but I Can't because I'm on my phone.

Given that Lottie hasn't even spoken yet, and that this is werewolf, with lies galore, I would be more than a little unwilling to say we KNOW anything here. We know what the Seer has dreamed, and I'm willing to give Copper a pass based on that, but that leaves us with one of you three being a wolf.

[Rikae]

Yes, we know.

You (or Copper), however, could be a wolf. Nerwen did say that a cursed would have shown up as an ordo on night 3, meaning, if we have a cursed, it could be anyone (except Lottie).

If you're thinking Nimrodel would claim to be an ordo, there is no reason for her to do that. All the wolf would need to do in that case is claim to be Nimrodel, and the two ordos would be lynched toDay and toMorrow, allowing the wolf to win the game.

[Farael]

If you're thinking Nimrodel would claim to be an ordo, there is no reason for her to do that. All the wolf would need to do in that case is claim to be Nimrodel, and the two ordos would be lynched toDay and toMorrow, allowing the wolf to win the game.

That's some really weak logic here. If a wolf fake-reveals, the true Nimrodel would reveal. We Lynch one a night and win.

This is some furry logic you are using here

[Rikae]

That's some really weak logic here. If a wolf fake-reveals, the true Nimrodel would reveal. We Lynch one a night and win.

This is some furry logic you are using here

Um, I'm discussing your scenario where Nimrodel has, for some strange reason, already claimed to be an ordo.
If a wolf then fake-reveals, we would lynch the two claiming to be ordos, and the wolf would win.

Therefore Nimrodel would absolutely not claim to be an ordo. It would be suicide and cause the game to be lost.

Talk about furry logic.

Kit and I have both claimed to be ordos. Either we are honest, or we are wolves. Therefore, Nimrodel is Lottie.

[Rikae]

But maybe... nah.

Just please explain why you think Nimrodel would claim to be an ordo at this point.

[Farael]

So the true Nimrodel couldn't just say "hey, I lied, I'm not an ordo"?!

Sure, that might get her lynched, but then we'd know the truth and Lynch the fake Nimrodel the next Day. Which would be a wolf because no one else has an incentive to lie.

We don't know much about the abilities of this player. For example, if they are doing the same math you are (one of you three is a wolf) then as long as we don't kill THEM today, we have a chance of winning tonight with a hunter kill.

I really think you are trying to defend a VERY weak position

[Rikae]

So the true Nimrodel couldn't just say "hey, I lied, I'm not an ordo"?!

Sure, that might get her lynched, but then we'd know the truth and Lynch the fake Nimrodel the next Day. Which would be a wolf because no one else has an incentive to lie.

We don't know much about the abilities of this player. For example, if they are doing the same math you are (one of you three is a wolf) then as long as we don't kill THEM today, we have a chance of winning tonight with a hunter kill.

I really think you are trying to defend a VERY weak position

Actually, come to think of it, let's see what Lottie says before we discuss this further. We could be doing more harm than good.

[Farael]

Just please explain why you think Nimrodel would claim to be an ordo at this point.

Because there may be a cursed who turned into a wolf. I actually am with you in thinking that the dreams were of Ordos (but then I would, knowing my role). However Nimrodel may disagree and be bidding her time.

Why are you so eager on a reveal? I wonder...

[Rikae]

Although I don't think we're thinking the same thing here. And this bugs me:


We don't know much about the abilities of this player. For example, if they are doing the same math you are (one of you three is a wolf) then as long as we don't kill THEM today, we have a chance of winning tonight with a hunter kill.


According to that math (which is yours, not mine), such a hunter kill wouldn't be needed. We would win toDay or toMorrow regardless, whether the wolf pretends to be Nimrodel or an ordo.

Edit: X'd

[Farael]

Kit and I have both claimed to be ordos. Either we are honest, or we are wolves. Therefore, Nimrodel is Lottie.

That's your math right there. One of you three is a wolf. I'm thinking you, of course

[Rikae]

Because there may be a cursed who turned into a wolf. I actually am with you in thinking that the dreams were of Ordos (but then I would, knowing my role). However Nimrodel may disagree and be bidding her time.
That's what I didn't want to say. Now we've pretty much spelled out what a Kitanna- or Lottie-wolf would need to do to win.

Why are you so eager on a reveal? I wonder...
I don't know, why do you think I am?

[Rikae]

That's your math right there. One of you three is a wolf. I'm thinking you, of course

No, it's each of us is either honest or a wolf. We could both be honest, which makes you or Copper a wolf.

Not you, probably - a wolf would have thought things through more.

[Farael]

No, it's each of us is either honest or a wolf. We could both be honest, which makes you or Copper a wolf.

Not you, probably - a wolf would have thought things through more.

Well, we've beaten this house to the ground, but I'll have to agree to disagree here. I don't think we can be sure Nimrodel would reveal today.

[Rikae]

Well, we've beaten this house to the ground, but I'll have to agree to disagree here. I don't think we can be sure Nimrodel would reveal today.

Maybe she won't. If it seems like a good idea to you, maybe it does to her as well.
She does have more insight into the possible-cursed situation than either of us does, at any rate. Probably. I hope.

[Rikae]

Actually I feel pretty stupid now. Yes, of course Nimrodel might have her reasons for wanting to claim she's an ordo.

I'm glad I didn't immediately vote for Kitanna, as was my first instinct.

If Nimrodel doesn't reveal toDay, Farael & Copper, please vote for ME. Least I can do is help Nimrodel survive the day without revealing, if that's her wish (since I can't help the village with brainpower :rolleyes:).

[Rikae]

That would, at least, give us a chance of catching a cursed wolf that isn't among the unknowns.

[Farael]

If Nimrodel doesn't reveal toDay, Farael & Copper, please vote for ME. Least I can do is help Nimrodel survive the day without revealing, if that's her wish (since I can't help the village with brainpower :rolleyes:).

I think I shall. Not that I agree with your supposedly selfless gesture, but rather because at the end game ever ordo should be advocating for their survival. After all, to myself, I'm the only 100% known ordo. And we aren't yet in a position where we can find the wolf out by mathematics

[Kitanna]

If Nimrodel doesn't reveal toDay, Farael & Copper, please vote for ME. Least I can do is help Nimrodel survive the day without revealing, if that's her wish (since I can't help the village with brainpower :rolleyes:).

I know I'm an ordo, whether or not anyone believes me is a different story. And if you really are an ordo too trying to be the sacrificial lamb then we do have a cursed person out there.

Or you could be Nimrodel and sacrifice is part of your role. Since nothing seems to be standard in this game death is really the only way to be certain and this goes for everyone who is still alive.

Or you could be a wolf trying to bluff, which at this point is too dangerous to even entertain.

At this point I'd say you're Nimrodel and Lottie is probably the last wolf. Unless there's a cursed, which is just bananas.

[Coppermirror]

Good morning! (Or afternoon or night, as the case may be.) I'm probably going to be home all day toDay, so I'll have a fair amount of time to think about the game, on and off. So far I'm trying to look at the narrations for clues about roles, and then I'll want to look through the past Days' posting for hints about the possible identity of a third wolf.

[Rikae]

I think there probably is a cursed. The "2-3" wolves, the lack of a kill, everything points to it.

In which case it really could be anyone and our only hope is that Nimrodel can narrow things down with a night kill of some kind.

That possibility didn't even occur to me at first which is why I argued with you Farael - I figured we were doomed if there was a cursed so we should just go with what we had (which, by the way, is the last thing I would have said if I were a wolf). But it is a possibility and we don't know whether she is a hunter, an assassin, or something else - whether she needs to be attacked, or not be attacked, to make her kill, whether she even has more kills, etc.

If she reveals before I go to bed (about 12 hours), I'll vote based on her info, if not, I guess the best thing to do is vote for myself.

[Rikae]

I think I shall. Not that I agree with your supposedly selfless gesture, but rather because at the end game ever ordo should be advocating for their survival. After all, to myself, I'm the only 100% known ordo. And we aren't yet in a position where we can find the wolf out by mathematics

Oh, I missed this, and I kind of wish I hadn't seen it after all.

Seriously, Farael, you can stop laying it on so thick. You get to lynch me, you should be happy. The snarky remarks are getting old. You convinced me that Nimrodel might be trying to hide, so I do what I can to help her do so if she wants to, and I get this snottiness. Really, knock it off.

[Farael]

Oh, I missed this, and I kind of wish I hadn't seen it after all.

Seriously, Farael, you can stop laying it on so thick. You get to lynch me, you should be happy. The snarky remarks are getting old. You convinced me that Nimrodel might be trying to hide, so I do what I can to help her do so if she wants to, and I get this snottiness. Really, knock it off.

Ok, first of all I do apologize if I'm coming across as aggressive and/or mean! This is just a game, and I'm not trying to cross any boundaries here! As a person I respect and appreciate you.

As a player, I have made my suspicions abundantly known. But it's not personal!

[Rikae]

Ok, first of all I do apologize if I'm coming across as aggressive and/or mean! This is just a game, and I'm not trying to cross any boundaries here! As a person I respect and appreciate you.

As a player, I have made my suspicions abundantly known. But it's not personal!

Ok, no problem!

Maybe it's the avatar. :D

[Farael]

Ok, no problem!

Maybe it's the avatar. :D

The angry Moose? It's outdated even, now it should be a Jet

[Loslote]

We know Lottie is Nimrodel, so I think hearing from her exactly what she does can only help.

Why, yes, yes I am. Nimrodel, at your service! I was a logical hunter of sorts - the of sorts is because I don't need to die before I can kill, which I at least haven't seen before - but I only got one kill, which I used to take out Agan, both because I was completely sure her Seer reveal was false and because she was responsible for the death of my Beloved Amroth. Of course, my role has changed before (from a typical suicidal Lover to a hunter), so I'm not positive it won't change again, but for now I am, in terms of extra powers and what not, effectively an ordo right now.

That's your math right there. One of you three is a wolf. I'm thinking you, of course

I'm thinking Kit, actually, and not just because she voted for my Beloved, I promise. ;) Rikae has seemed pretty solid all game to me, whereas Kit has been on and off my radar from Day 1. I think we probably do have a Cursed, since my hunter kill shouldn't have stopped any Night kills from happening (which was why I was so concerned yesterDay that we not rely on the Ranger, because before Rikae reminded me that we might have a Cursed, I had thought that somehow my hunter kill had stopped the wolf kill, and didn't want anyone to think they could rely on another 'ranger save' the next Night). In that case, we have four possible wolves, and of those four, I'm far more suspicious of Kit and Farael. However Kit could also technically have been a third wolf from the start, so I would suggest we lynch Kit toDay, just to be safe.

[Farael]

Ok, I stand corrected. Rikae was right about Nimrodel. I'm still not convinced about her logic, but I'll admit I'm not always right (see McCaber :p )

Would any of the people with a little more time than me look at who the wolves may have tried to attack the no kill night? Either someone who looked like a seer or a threat to them... or someone dropping cursed hints

[Coppermirror]

I will have a look at that. It may take a while, though, and I think it'd be a good idea for anybody else who has the time to also look through for clues on their own, since we might pick up on different things.

[Rikae]

Well, I've been looking through Day 2, and though I haven't found anything yet about any of the possible cursed-wolf people, I did find this (highlight mine):


The other option (and one that feels more plausible the more I think about it) is that we have a cursed/shapeshifter the wolves know about. That's the best explanation I can think for Boro's death - he made one vaguely evil-looking remark and died, even when the wolves could have got me (really I'm a little upset here - who would take someone else when they can have me? :Merisu:), which makes me think they must have been after something specific. A cursed would also explain the 2-3 wolves.


Since Agan was a doomed wolf at that point, I daresay that is a hint.
Now to go over the subsequent posts and find the answer...?

[Rikae]

Well, I looked through them, and boy did I find something. Something very troubling.

Kitanna, are you around? Any chance you are Nimrodel after all?

[Kitanna]

Kitanna, are you around? Any chance you are Nimrodel after all?
Who voted for Jex? No, sorry. Not sure where you got the impression I was. I'm just a boring, misguided ordo who is playing a terrible game and is probably doomed at this point.

And I actually have very little to say at this point except I don't believe anyone anymore. This game destroyed my faith in humanity.

Though I did come up with a few theories on lunch:
1) Rikae is Nimrodel-Hunter, but will lose her powers if she reveals. This being how the Tarragyn or whatever worked in Agan's game some games back. Rikae thinks she has a wolf and she'll take them down if she dies. It makes her self-sacrifice make sense.
2) Rikae is a suicidal wolf with village sympathies. Very unlikely, but since this is WW nothing can be counted out.
3) Rikae is an ordo, meaning Cop and Fareal were cursed.
4) Lottie is the wolf. Agan threw her name out at the end of Day 2 for those who hadn't voted. Agan didn't vote for her, but helped doom McCaber instead. A ruse perhaps to distance herself from fellow wolf, Lottie?
5) Lottie really is Nimrodel and she's effectively an ordo as she said.

Right now I'm leaning toward 1 & 4 being the most likely. I've already fallen for one fake reveal this game, I'm not about to believe anymore.

[Rikae]

An Elven-maid there was of old,
A shining star by day:
Her mantle white was hemmed with gold,
Her paws of silver-grey.

Lottie replying to Aganzir: Are wolves usually told when there's a cursed in play? I've only been cursed once before (one of Sally's games), and I'm pretty sure the wolves didn't know before they turned me that that was a possibility.Once BEFORE???!!

Kitanna, I was hoping you were only because otherwise I have to consider the possibility that Nimrodel is the cursed.

[Kitanna]

Kitanna, I was hoping you were only because otherwise I have to consider the possibility that Nimrodel is the cursed.
Maybe she absorbed the powers of the one she killed. *shrug*

[Rikae]

I wasn't expecting to find that, but now that I think about it, it makes sense.

We weren't told there would be other special roles, though it is possible "secret stuff", it seems more likely there are no other roles than the ones listed:
Galadriel (Seer)– dreams a player every Night.
Amroth (Ranger/Lover)– protects a player every Night. May not pick the same player twice in a row. May or may not be able to self-protect. (i.e. I’m not telling.)
Nimrodel (Lover)– The exact nature of the Lovers' relationship is a secret. You are free to speculate.

Depending on numbers, there may be some more secret stuff...


In the narration from the very odd night in question, the narration Nerwen emphasized was accurate, we have:
But the greatest triumph of all lay before her, for she was certain, now, that she had seen through the disguise of the Lady Galadriel.
So... Agan is going to attack the person she thinks is Galadriel, running up the stair:
As she raced up the stair that led to her victim's fletAnd is shot by Loslote (can we assume this now?) who is standing above her on the stair:
She looked down in disbelief at the feathered shaft protruding from her furry ribcage, then up at the slender figure who stood at the top of the stairs, holding a bow and arrow.


And finally
"Well met!" said the werewolf. "And thank you. Aganzir had outlived her usefulness- you have done us a service by disposing of her."

Nimrodel's eyes searched the surrounding foliage, but the leaves were too dense for her to be able to tell if the wolf was alone.

"Us? Are there more of you? And who are you? I charge you, tell me your name!"

"Now wouldn't you like to know?" laughed the wolf.


"Us" could refer to the wolf and Nimrodel.

The more I think about this, the more sense it makes to me.

And there is also this:
There was, she realised, no peace for her in bringing justice to one of Amroth's murderers. Only when the last one lay dead at her hand- only when she had killed them, all of them- then, perhaps, she would know peace.

Amroth's murderers wouldn't be the wolves, it would be Aganzir, Sally and Kitanna.

And look who Lottie wants to lynch toDay.

[Kitanna]

Amroth's murderers wouldn't be the wolves, it would be Aganzir, Sally and Kitanna.

And look who Lottie wants to lynch toDay.

Huh, interesting. So do you suppose Nimrodel is cursed AND out for revenge? Or just out for revenge? If she is Nimrodel and is telling the truth about her role she's effectively an ordo so it's just personal now.

I don't know, I'm still not sold that Lottie is actually Nimrodel.

[Rikae]

Huh, interesting. So do you suppose Nimrodel is cursed AND out for revenge? Or just out for revenge? If she is Nimrodel and is telling the truth about her role she's effectively an ordo so it's just personal now.
I'm not sure. Could be either, I guess. Maybe she can only kill the people who voted for Tar? She could still have killed Sally last Night. Perhaps killing them all is her condition for winning? In which case, I wonder if the village can win along with her, or if we need to lynch her to win.

I don't know, I'm still not sold that Lottie is actually Nimrodel.
Well, I definitely am not. I don't know how to prove it, but your guess about having to keep my role secret isn't what happened - I'm just an ordo.
That's actually (though it seems a bit wrong to mention it) why I wasn't here on Day 1. If I had gotten a PM, I would have been notified by email and known the game had started.

[Kitanna]

I'm not sure. Could be either, I guess. Maybe she can only kill the people who voted for Tar? She could still have killed Sally last Night. Perhaps killing them all is her condition for winning? In which case, I wonder if the village can win along with her, or if we need to lynch her to win.


I was thinking maybe the game drags on until she or I is dead, but that wouldn't make sense. I mean if that is the case it's not a very high stakes ending. Either you vote to lynch me today and Nimrodel is satisfied and the game ends. We vote to lynch her and the game ends. Or we vote to kill you and Nimrodel offs me in the Night and the game ends. Sounds wrong, but we've been in the dark a lot of this game as it is. More so than usual. If Nimrodel is cursed that would make way more sense. Cursed and out for revenge.