Werewolf CXII - Dueling Wizards III - The Living Thread

[Nerwen]

Unless he's not the only wolf and believes whenever he got turned his days are numbered, so why not obstruct? And there would be at least a days delay to the living if he's lynched and a wolf.

It probably doesn't help hearing from me, but if I'm ever turned, it's very similar to how I would be playing the part of a wolf if I knew the EW hadn't spent all choices yet.
Good point. I'm rather wishing I hadn't made that post- especially as there was a sudden run of Lottie-votes while I was typing it, and I think lynching her may have been a mistake.

Now, what about Legate? If Nog's a wolf, could a Legwolf have seized on a chance not to have to follow through on his "suspicion"? Or is it just honest doubt, given that there is a history of innocent Nog developing that kind of laser-beam focus on a single topic?

[Lalaith]

So we are now ten and perhaps four of us are bad. I really hope Lottie was a wolf.
I'm in a rush to go to work now but will hopefully be able to post a bit more later. Annoyingly, I have also lost all the notes I made about the voting and its implications...but I wanted to put out there what's been worrying me all Night.

It was Nog's weird behaviour near DL that got me thinking...he holds up voting debate going on about rules and stuff, then risks his own vote, holding off until deadline, only to vote for Eonwe who as far as he knew only had one vote and thus his vote wouldn't make any difference anyway. However, as it happened, had his vote been allowed, it would have resulted in a no-lynch, because Brinn was empowered, and we would have had a draw.
Now, then I realised, the wolves already would know what the Dead would tell us - that Zil was innocent. This would mean that the wolves also knew into which "group" the empowerment would go. (As Zil was innocent he was likely to co-operate and thus the 'none of the above' category was unlikely to be used)
So, empowerment would go to either Boro (v unlikely as he said he probably couldn't vote) Brinn, Eomer, Eonwe or me.
Given that Eomer and I had already contributed 2 out of the 3 votes to Lottie, if one of us got empowered Lottie would be unsavable. Eonwe voted for Nogs - if his vote had been empowered, we would have had another draw. As it happened, it was Brinn who got the empowerment which, had Nogs' late vote counted, would also have resulted in a draw.
So my question is, was this all a terrific gamble by a Nogs-wolf? What was it that he was waiting for, up until deadline, and why didn't he vote for Lottie or Boro to guarantee his own survival?
Basically, I get so far with this theory and then I end up in a tangle. So I thought I'd put it out there now to see if anyone else can make sense of it. (Or what is more likely, for the wolves to tangle it up further :rolleyes:)

[Nogrod]

Okay, we really need to get a wolf toDay.If this doesn't sound like a false or forced concern / alarm, I'm not sure what would. We have no idea about our situation whatsoever (well, we might be able to infer that Zil was innocent - or then the Dead shared my concern on Eönwe) and it is just D4 in a game of Dueling Wizards where more or less anything can happen.

Naturally, we should lynch a wolf toDay, but opening the Day with "Okay, we really need to" sounds like something a Wolf would say after thinking how an innocent would open a Day.


On other issues:
on reading through his game he has posted a *lot*, but nearly all of it has consisted of arguing the undesirability of trying to communicate with the Dead, with an interlude where he became equally preoccupied with the question of whether the rules technically allowed Wolf1 to have been created Night2.
I agree I have used a lot of time discussing those issues - and have not been the only one to be quite occupied with the rule / strategy -talk *coughEönwecough*. But unlike some others who have discussed a lot about that kind of issues, I have also ended that discussion in time to go actually into the bussiness of considering the lynches, trying to find suspicious things and been there discussing the lynch so that we could make reasonable decisions (unlike some who post lengthy strategy-manuals just before the DL - why is that not suspicious to you Nerwen?).

[Nogrod]

So my question is, was this all a terrific gamble by a Nogs-wolf? What was it that he was waiting for, up until deadline, and why didn't he vote for Lottie or Boro to guarantee his own survival?
Basically, I get so far with this theory and then I end up in a tangle. So I thought I'd put it out there now to see if anyone else can make sense of it. (Or what is more likely, for the wolves to tangle it up further :rolleyes:)I can give you a simple solution to your enigma: I'm innocent. It makes perfect sense then (add the premise that I also like it in the Dead Thread so there was no pressure).

You can see that my previous post is timed at .59 (I made the mistake of answering Lottie who asked me a straight question) - and realized the time at the moment. The 30-second rule prevented me from posting my vote any earlier than I was then able to do - but you can see that I managed to post another one on .00 - so my vote was more or less a few seconds after .00. Yeah, I didn't manage to vote as Kuru was really on top of the hour. But that was in no way planned, but just a mistake (answering to Lottie at the last minute).

That simple.

[Nogrod]

Btw.
It was Nog's weird behaviour near DL that got me thinking...he holds up voting debate going on about rules and stuffThis is incorrect as well: don't take all Nerwen says at face-value but look at the thread. I spent the last couple of hours not on rules talk but trying to find a wolf - I even got a bit frustrated with Eönwe because he was doing that still an hour before the DL and posted this:Eönwe: please stop talking about Wizards and Visitors. Talk of people to vote toDay - and why exactly them.I had to comment on the rules half an hour before the DL because my reason to suspect several people actually hung on it - and I realized I had read the rules wrong and stood corrected - but other than that I spent the last couple of hours talking about who to lynch, not the rules as such (unlike some others...).

Okay. 'nuff of that.


On other issues: I just remembered I did make a tally of the votes yesterDay - so here...

D3 voting

.48 Eomer -> Lottie
.49 Sally -> Lottie 2
.49 Lalaith -> Lottie 3
.54 Brinniel -> Eönwe
.54 Legate -> Boro
.56 Lottie -> Boro 2
.56 Nerwen -> Nog
.58 Eönwe -> Nog 2
.59 Shasta -> Legate

+ voter empowerment: Eönwe 2


EDIT: Triple-posting - will be away now then.

[Lalaith]

Ok Nogs, I can actually see a scenario too where you are innocent, but why the exciting drama of holding back on your vote til the last minute - only to vote for Eonwe - a vote which, as far as you knew, if you were innocent, would make no difference?
Why say this to Eonwe two hours before deadline:
Eönwe: please stop talking about Wizards and Visitors. Talk of people to vote toDay - and why exactly them
and then do nowt but talk about rules and stuff instead of who to vote for, yourself?
And what was this supposed to mean?
I might vote for Lottie to help my own chances of survival - and I do suspect her indeed - did it from the early on.

Now I'm just wondering whether it is the right thing to do - aka do I have a better choice that would also affect something...

A tie for Eonwe would have saved Lottie. An innocent Nogs could not have really guessed that Brinn would have been empowered. You could also have saved Lottie in a much more straightforward way - if that was indeed your aim - by voting for Boro, but you didn't. Which does in fact speak well of you, unless you also had reasons not to lynch Boro.

Anyway one thing is clear from all of this that Eonwe's idea from early yesterDay, of slicing us down into little portions for the Dead to choose from, really is not wise, as it gives the wolves too much of a pointer on who will get empowered and thus where to steer the lynching.
Eonwe's "small portions" plan would have left the Dead, incidentally, with a choice of Boro, Brinn or Eomer. As they chose Brinn anyway, this doesn't look hugely incriminating for Eonwe as being an attempt at wolf-steering the Dead empowerment, but still....

[Nerwen]

If this doesn't sound like a false or forced concern / alarm, I'm not sure what would. We have no idea about our situation whatsoever (well, we might be able to infer that Zil was innocent - or then the Dead shared my concern on Eönwe) and it is just D4 in a game of Dueling Wizards where more or less anything can happen.

Naturally, we should lynch a wolf toDay, but opening the Day with "Okay, we really need to" sounds like something a Wolf would say after thinking how an innocent would open a Day.
Sorry, but that's nonsense. We do not *know* how things stand, and if the worst case scenario is true we're in quite a fix. That is simply a fact.


I agree I have used a lot of time discussing those issues - and have not been the only one to be quite occupied with the rule / strategy -talk *coughEönwecough*. But unlike some others who have discussed a lot about that kind of issues, I have also ended that discussion in time to go actually into the bussiness of considering the lynches, trying to find suspicious things and been there discussing the lynch so that we could make reasonable decisions (unlike some who post lengthy strategy-manuals just before the DL - why is that not suspicious to you Nerwen?).
Who do you say did that? Steve?


Originally Posted by Lalaith
So my question is, was this all a terrific gamble by a Nogs-wolf? What was it that he was waiting for, up until deadline, and why didn't he vote for Lottie or Boro to guarantee his own survival?
Basically, I get so far with this theory and then I end up in a tangle. So I thought I'd put it out there now to see if anyone else can make sense of it. (Or what is more likely, for the wolves to tangle it up further )
I can give you a simple solution to your enigma: I'm innocent. It makes perfect sense then (add the premise that I also like it in the Dead Thread so there was no pressure).

You can see that my previous post is timed at .59 (I made the mistake of answering Lottie who asked me a straight question) - and realized the time at the moment. The 30-second rule prevented me from posting my vote any earlier than I was then able to do - but you can see that I managed to post another one on .00 - so my vote was more or less a few seconds after .00. Yeah, I didn't manage to vote as Kuru was really on top of the hour. But that was in no way planned, but just a mistake (answering to Lottie at the last minute).

That simple.
This is a fair point. And all the votes fell so close together yesterDay that I doubt anyone, guilty or innocent, was on top of things enough to make the kind of calculating move Lalaith seems to suggest.

[Lalaith]

Ok now I must really get on with my actual RL work for a bit.
But before I go...the list for the Dead. (sorry dead Mith, hope this doesn't rile you!)

There should be enough innocents in the dead thread to ensure a vote on Lottie so would it be better (given the empowerment issues I highlighted earlier) to make the 'none of the above' group smaller than the other two? I'm using Kuru's Living list here btw:

Lottie prey
Nerwen
Boromir88
Shastanis Althreduin
satansaloser2005

Lottie predator
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Eönwë

None of the above
Nogrod
Brinniel

We could even just divide us into two groups of five, prey and predator, and tell the dead not to empower anyone if there has been a 'none of the above' issue?

[Nerwen]

Btw.
Originally Posted by Lalaith
It was Nog's weird behaviour near DL that got me thinking...he holds up voting debate going on about rules and stuff

This is incorrect as well: don't take all Nerwen says at face-value but look at the thread. I spent the last couple of hours not on rules talk but trying to find a wolf - I even got a bit frustrated with Eönwe because he was doing that still an hour before the DL and posted this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nog
Eönwe: please stop talking about Wizards and Visitors. Talk of people to vote toDay - and why exactly them.

I had to comment on the rules half an hour before the DL because my reason to suspect several people actually hung on it - and I realized I had read the rules wrong and stood corrected - but other than that I spent the last couple of hours talking about who to lynch, not the rules as such (unlike some others...)
Well, maybe you think that's what you did, Nog, but the thread shows otherwise. At #415 (5:11 pm) you briefly agreed with Eomer that Legate was suspiciously agreeable. At #418 (5:35 pm) you did make a suspicion list, albeit a rather non-committal one. At #423 (6:04 pm) you made a post arguing that the Day One no-lynch supporters should be seen as suspicious. At #426 (6:10 pm) you told off Eonwe for "talking about Wizards and Visitors". Then at #432 (6:21 pm) you returned to the subject of... the Dead Thread! You then made two further posts on the subject at #438 (6:38 pm) and #450 (6:48 pm). (If these are the posts you're talking about, I'm not sure on whom suspicion would be "hanging"- clarification?). Finally, at #457 (6:51 pm), with less than 10 miniutes before DL, you announced your intention of going after "those who try to capitalize it with their clear understanding of the rules..." whatever that means, after which you announced you might vote Lottie, Boro, Eonwe and Eomer, made another post in which said you were thinking of voting Lottie, then voted Eonwe.

So no, I am not misrepresenting you. I will also point out that it was your single-minded focus on the Dead Thread during the last couple of hours that made me re-consider my suspicion of you, precisely because it seemed a bit foolhardy for a wolf.

Ok now I must really get on with my actual RL work for a bit.
But before I go...the list for the Dead. (sorry dead Mith, hope this doesn't rile you!)

There should be enough innocents in the dead thread to ensure a vote on Lottie so would it be better (given the empowerment issues I highlighted earlier) to make the 'none of the above' group smaller than the other two? I'm using Kuru's Living list here btw:

Lottie prey
Nerwen
Boromir88
Shastanis Althreduin
satansaloser2005

Lottie predator
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Eönwë

None of the above
Nogrod
Brinniel

We could even just divide us into two groups of five, prey and predator, and tell the dead not to empower anyone if there has been a 'none of the above' issue?
Maybe, but isn't there a risk of one of them voting by accident (or "accident")?

Edit: added comment.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Forewarning, I may not be around as much toDay as normally, because for large part, the time when I will have most time to play WW would be when I'm at work, throughout the, like, next seven hours or so. I hope to be back also a few hours before DL, but not for very long. In any case my posts may be shorter (ha, ha).

Anyway, as for now.

I agree with that Mith was widely unsuspected and it would make sense if she was meant to be a no-trace kill. One option is that the Wolves are really getting suspected and killing other people would bring them into the spotlight.

More interestingly, now that we can assume Zil's innocence, we can try to look back at events related to him at least with some knowledge. The bandwagon for him, for example, makes it clear that it was a "safe space" for Wolves to contribute to, i.e. being sure they would not vote for a fellow Wolf (but at the same time, casting a vote outside it was "safe space" in the sense that such a vote would not be linked to lynching an innocent. It was only less safe because it wasn't so dead clear yet at that time who was going to get the votes). Zil's spat with Nerwen is another thing, because now we know his retaliation was genuine; Nerwen's suspicion of him itself I am not sure of. I am growing wary of her again, I mean she has so far been moving around basically unsuspected for most of the time. Then again, it's her.

Otherwise: I am all for using the list Lalaith now provided. We should shuffle things up anyway so that it's not still the same list. I am also for the Dead checking Lottie next. The communication seems to work (hopefully), so let's keep it that way.

Speaking of communicating with Dead, I am still wary of Nogrod. His replies at the end of yesterDay looked genuine, but upon re-thinking, in the big picture, his one-track distraction and dismissing the communication with the Dead stands. In any case, I hope to read more of him when it comes to discussing people etc.

Boro's "confession" in the beginning of toDay pinged my radar as "I used to be a person willing to die, but recently I have been converted into a Wolf, so I don't want to die anymore".

Anyway. I agree with Nerwen that the Days are passing on, and we should make sure we lynch a Wolf, as it is theoretically possible we have four baddies here (especially now that effectively, we can assume except for Lottie that all the dead were innocents).

EDIT: x-ed with Nerwen

[Eönwë]

Ok, it looks like I have very very limited time for the game sadly toDay, so just going to put down as many of my thoughts now.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Anyone else think the narration is pretty strange today?

Mithalwen was apparently taking the same route as the escapee; many powers swirling around them.

If there were 3 wolves among us then then there could be no wolf kill. EW would have to scry. GW might have sent Mith to the dead thread for her to come back tomorrow.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Gah! That's the second time I say the wrong thing. I mean, of course, that there could be no 4th wolf created.

[Nogrod]

Anyway. I agree with Nerwen that the Days are passing on, and we should make sure we lynch a WolfOh, really? Interesting idea. We must consider that as an option but let's not rush into it. :D:rolleyes:

[Eönwë]

Maybe it's selfish of me, but I'm pretty uncomfortable with Lalaith's list:

Lottie prey
Nerwen
Boromir88
Shastanis Althreduin
satansaloser2005

Lottie predator
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Eönwë

None of the above
Nogrod
Brinniel


Whether or not it's intentional, it leaves the two people who are out for my blood in the same category ('None of the above'). In general, I feel like having a category with only two members is not great, and is exactly the kind of thing Lalaith warns out here:
slicing us down into little portions for the Dead to choose from, really is not wise, as it gives the wolves too much of a pointer on who will get empowered and thus where to steer the lynching.
However, if she's a wolf this would require her to know what went on in the Dead Thread last Night, which would require the EW to have sacrificed at least one wolf and us to have lynched one (note: if the either Morsul or Lommy were such sacrifices, it means that it could be either Zil or Lottie could've been wolves, as Zil and one Morsul or Lottie could've overpowered the other).

Of course, this may just be coincidence, but in any case, I'd prefer either a 3/3/3 (with one 4) or 5/5 split (with the hope that there was no wolf-sacrifice) better.


Also, has anyone considered that Mith's death might not be a wolf-kill but rather a Ranger save and the GW assigning a Stranger that Leaves? And even if it's not, this is a possibility we should be aware of as the Days continue.


edit: x-ed since my last post. Nice to see that someone else (Eomer) also had the same idea!

[Lalaith]

Eonwe, I agree it's not a good idea to have two people alone in a category who both have the same likely voting pattern. Quite happy to mix the list (eg by swapping you and Nog?).

I think the 'none of the above' category is very unlikely which is why I suggested it being small, and giving the Dead more choice for the two more likely categories.

What I'm trying to avoid is the likelihood of giving the Dead the Hobson's Choice of empowering one of three baddies....and of giving the wolves too easy a guess about who will be empowered....

[Lalaith]

However, if she's a wolf this would require her to know what went on in the Dead Thread last Night

Sorry, I don't get this, and who is the 'she' you are referring to?
My point was that the wolves already know Zil is innocent because they would know he wasn't a wolf...and they would also know that the Dead, yesterDay were all innocents (Morsul, Lommy, Zil) and would thus all try to be helpful.
They would therefore also know that the empowerment vote would be one of Boro, Brinn, Eomer, Eonwe or me.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Eonwe, you said it much clearer than I was able to - I'm getting completely muddled up with nightly activities!

[Eönwë]

Sorry, I don't get this, and who is the 'she' you are referring to?
My point was that the wolves already know Zil is innocent because they would know he wasn't a wolf...and they would also know that the Dead, yesterDay were all innocents (Morsul, Lommy, Zil) and would thus all try to be helpful.
They would therefore also know that the empowerment vote would be one of Boro, Brinn, Eomer, Eonwe or me.

I meant if you were evil and were trying to subtly manipulate the list toDay. Though as I said, an evil-you doing this would require there to have been at least one wolf-sacrifice (so that there were 2+ to draw/overpower the vote last Night - the other option is 3 toDay overpowering the vote, but that would require 2 there last Night anyway), which I'm still not sure I believe is a likely possibility.

[Eönwë]

One thing I've found quite interesting is the Nerwen/Legate reaction to Nog. They seem to be acting quite similarly towards him - suspecting him, then easing up on him (and in Legate's case not voting him), then regretting easing up on him and suspecting him again.

On the one hand, if Nog turns out be innocent, this could potentially suggest a wolf-team trying to get him killed (though maybe it is a bit obvious).

On the other hand, if he's evil, this could either speak for them as innocents of wavering suspicion, or mean that they're wolves who are anticipating a torrent of votes for him toDay and want to ride the wave to victory.

[Eönwë]

It was Nog's weird behaviour near DL that got me thinking...he holds up voting debate going on about rules and stuff, then risks his own vote, holding off until deadline, only to vote for Eonwe who as far as he knew only had one vote and thus his vote wouldn't make any difference anyway. However, as it happened, had his vote been allowed, it would have resulted in a no-lynch, because Brinn was empowered, and we would have had a draw.
Now, then I realised, the wolves already would know what the Dead would tell us - that Zil was innocent. This would mean that the wolves also knew into which "group" the empowerment would go. (As Zil was innocent he was likely to co-operate and thus the 'none of the above' category was unlikely to be used)
So, empowerment would go to either Boro (v unlikely as he said he probably couldn't vote) Brinn, Eomer, Eonwe or me.
Given that Eomer and I had already contributed 2 out of the 3 votes to Lottie, if one of us got empowered Lottie would be unsavable. Eonwe voted for Nogs - if his vote had been empowered, we would have had another draw. As it happened, it was Brinn who got the empowerment which, had Nogs' late vote counted, would also have resulted in a draw.
So my question is, was this all a terrific gamble by a Nogs-wolf? What was it that he was waiting for, up until deadline, and why didn't he vote for Lottie or Boro to guarantee his own survival?
Basically, I get so far with this theory and then I end up in a tangle. So I thought I'd put it out there now to see if anyone else can make sense of it. (Or what is more likely, for the wolves to tangle it up further :rolleyes:)

This is actually an interesting thought. I've realised I don't have time to look as in-detail as I'd like, but to make it easier for others if they want to take a look, I've combined the DT-voting list with the LT votes (where G, E, U, stand for whether their empowerment would mean that Zil was Good, Evil, or Unknown):

Eomer (G) --> Lottie
Sally (U) --> Lottie (2)
Lalaith (G) --> Lottie (3)
Brinn (G) --> Eonwe
Legate (E) --> Boro
Lottie (E) --> Boro (2)
Nerwen (E) --> Nog
Eonwe (G) --> Nog (2)
Shasta (U) --> Legate
(Nog (U) --> Eonwe)

[Eönwë]

Anyway, I've got to go now, so:

++Nog

[Lalaith]

I meant if you were evil and were trying to subtly manipulate the list toDay.
Ok I see what you were getting at. Well, as you were worried about the last category, would everyone be ok with this one? It would be good to get it agreed early. If people are really desperate to make the categories equal I would go along with that, reluctantly, if only to get a decision for the long-suffering Dead and move on to talking about something else.

Lottie prey
Nerwen
Boromir88
Shastanis Althreduin
satansaloser2005

Lottie predator
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Nogrod


None of the above
Eonwe
Brinniel

Anyway, if the bad dominate the good among the Dead, why would any live baddie even need to manipulate the list ? The list would have been useless anyway and the Dead would just be voting to confuse us and empower their own.

[Nerwen]

One thing I've found quite interesting is the Nerwen/Legate reaction to Nog. They seem to be acting quite similarly towards him - suspecting him, then easing up on him (and in Legate's case not voting him), then regretting easing up on him and suspecting him again.

On the one hand, if Nog turns out be innocent, this could potentially suggest a wolf-team trying to get him killed (though maybe it is a bit obvious).

On the other hand, if he's evil, this could either speak for them as innocents of wavering suspicion, or mean that they're wolves who are anticipating a torrent of votes for him toDay and want to ride the wave to victory.
Speaking for myself, I'm an "innocent of wavering suspicion"- but obviously I would say that, wouldn't I? And part of my problem is that I'm not entirely easy about Legate, either.

[Nerwen]

So can we all agree to Lal's list at #523?

Now Eomer, you mentioned the strange narration. Looking at the previous ones, I see the mysterious "buzzing" is also mentioned at the start of Day 2 as well (but not other Days) and this time it seems as though the significance is being emphasized. So I'd say it does indicate something unusual happened Nights 2 & 4.

[Nerwen]

Forewarning, I may not be around as much toDay as normally, because for large part, the time when I will haI agree with that Mith was widely unsuspected and it would make sense if she was meant to be a no-trace kill. One option is that the Wolves are really getting suspected and killing other people would bring them into the spotlight.
That is my thought too- though it could also be, as Brinn suggested, that they are getting afraid of the Hunter and Ranger.

Boro's "confession" in the beginning of toDay pinged my radar as "I used to be a person willing to die, but recently I have been converted into a Wolf, so I don't want to die anymore".
How likely is it that he would have been picked, considering how much he's been under suspicion?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Good catch, Nerwen.

Because of the kill on Night 2 - and Morsul clearly wasn't a visitor since he didn't come back - we can (surely!) presume that a wolf was created Night 1. No buzzing on Night 1, so surely the buzzing has nothing to do with wolf-creation.

The buzzing could indicate that EW and GW targeted same villager. Possible, though what are the odds of that happening twice?

Also, that would mean that Mith was a wolf kill. Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but the narration for Night 4 does mention the swirling of many powers. This could indicate that more things happened on Night 4 than they did on Night 2, because nothing like that was mentioned on Night 2.

Could it have something to do with the visitors? Night 2, visitor who dies is created (before the visitor who leaves, which is the smart order for the GW to proceed imo). Normal wolf kill on that night. Night 4, visitor who leaves is created and immediately sent to dead thread (Mithalwen); plus wolf target and successful Ranger defence. That could fit.

[Nerwen]

Good catch, Nerwen.

Because of the kill on Night 2 - and Morsul clearly wasn't a visitor since he didn't come back - we can (surely!) presume that a wolf was created Night 1. No buzzing on Night 1, so surely the buzzing has nothing to do with wolf-creation.

The buzzing could indicate that EW and GW targeted same villager. Possible, though what are the odds of that happening twice?

Also, that would mean that Mith was a wolf kill. Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but the narration for Night 4 does mention the swirling of many powers. This could indicate that more things happened on Night 4 than they did on Night 2, because nothing like that was mentioned on Night 2.

Could it have something to do with the visitors? Night 2, visitor who dies is created (before the visitor who leaves, which is the smart order for the GW to proceed imo). Normal wolf kill on that night. Night 4, visitor who leaves is created and immediately sent to dead thread (Mithalwen); plus wolf target and successful Ranger defence. That could fit.
Well, there's such a bewildering number of things that *could* happen during the Night in this game that I'm almost hesitant to guess- but now you mention it, the narration also says, "*whoosh* CLANG *doink* "Who put that there?"" Which could indicate thwarting or blocking i.e. a Ranger save.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Maybe it's selfish of me, but I'm pretty uncomfortable with Lalaith's list:
Whether or not it's intentional, it leaves the two people who are out for my blood in the same category ('None of the above'). In general, I feel like having a category with only two members is not great, and is exactly the kind of thing Lalaith warns out here:
Well I think we are all going to eventually end up in a situation where we won't have much choice. I mean I don't think a Wolf would openly manipulate the list, but let's not "monopolise" it. But of course if we can make it "better" in this case, why not.

So can we all agree to Lal's list at #523?
I say yes.

How likely is it that he would have been picked, considering how much he's been under suspicion?
True, although he has always managed to get out of that, also it would have been a good blind-side from the Wolves.

Now Eomer, you mentioned the strange narration. Looking at the previous ones, I see the mysterious "buzzing" is also mentioned at the start of Day 2 as well (but not other Days) and this time it seems as though the significance is being emphasized. So I'd say it does indicate something unusual happened Nights 2 & 4.
Good catch, Nerwen.

Because of the kill on Night 2 - and Morsul clearly wasn't a visitor since he didn't come back - we can (surely!) presume that a wolf was created Night 1. No buzzing on Night 1, so surely the buzzing has nothing to do with wolf-creation.

The buzzing could indicate that EW and GW targeted same villager. Possible, though what are the odds of that happening twice?

Also, that would mean that Mith was a wolf kill. Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but the narration for Night 4 does mention the swirling of many powers. This could indicate that more things happened on Night 4 than they did on Night 2, because nothing like that was mentioned on Night 2.

Could it have something to do with the visitors? Night 2, visitor who dies is created (before the visitor who leaves, which is the smart order for the GW to proceed imo). Normal wolf kill on that night. Night 4, visitor who leaves is created and immediately sent to dead thread (Mithalwen); plus wolf target and successful Ranger defence. That could fit.
Well any of that is plausible. If Mith was the Visitor, then we are going to learn it soon. As Nerwen said, the options are really many. The only thing I would conclude is that "many powers" indicates considerably more things happening than normally. But since we don't really know what, it doesn't really help us very much.

Anyway: considering looking at the votes, with assuming Zil's innocence, the most "Wolfy" votes among those would be Eönwë's and Boro's, which were cast clearly at the moment when the bandwagon was basically secured. Then again this is all bearing in mind that roles might keep changing in-between the Days, so anybody who was innocent at that point may not be anymore. But there had to be some baddies around at that point, and at least some of those could have easily used the bandwagon to hide their votes.

EDIT: x-ed with Nerwen

[Nerwen]

Okay. As I may not be able to get on again later-

++Nogrod

I have been vacillating, but there are just too many flags out.

I don't want to leave it at this- if I have time, I will look at Legate and Sally, who has been a real submarine, which I would expect from at least one of the baddies. Also perhaps Brinn, mainly as being the other leader of the "lynch Eönwë" movement. I get the meta reasoning that Eönwë might have been chosen as a wolf, but without some better indication, I think it's really odd to try to lynch someone who has arguably been the single most productive player.

I am also concerned about Boro as- what I said last Night- a "default lynch". I was doubtful about him earlier in the game, but my feeling is that he was just being silly then and is actually quite unlikely to have been turned since precisely because he was under suspicion.

That's all for now.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Need to really re-read the last page or so, but I also am becoming uncomfortable with Sally. Something about her style seems off, though it's difficult to articulate exactly.

Now to try and take a look at Nog since he's come up a lot in discussion today. I'd still personally lean toward voting Legate for now, though.

[Lalaith]

1. Why,why, WHY did Nogs throw in what looked like a 'wasted' vote for Eonwe after deadline when his own neck was on the line along with that of Lottie and Boro?
2. Is there any possible way Eonwe and Nogs could be on the same side?
3. Why do both Nerwen and Eomer trust Eonwe' innocence so much?
4. Why are Sally and Shasta so damn quiet?
5. Wouldn't Brinn have been a great candidate for wolf conversion?
6. Am I being a real airhead by vaguely trusting Nerwen and Legate to be innocents?
7. How has Boro survived this long?

[Boromir88]

I can give you a simple solution to your enigma: I'm innocent. It makes perfect sense then (add the premise that I also like it in the Dead Thread so there was no pressure).


Innocent of what though? We both know innocence is all based on one's point of view.

++Legate

Call it retaliation voting, but the way I see I'm not close to evening the score. He's got a 3 vote head start on me. The tunnel focus is rather unusual and strange from Legate.

I'm not going to deny my early intentionally trying to be suspicious so I can have a good, relaxing time with the dead. Going to blame someone who spends most of his days with a cubic ton of pressuring responsibilities, just wanting to be silly and fun for a while, try to take it easy? The sudden shift is I have a conscience and early on if I'm going to be random, possibly destructive (although I'm not sure how? I'm not the one who's tried to undermine communicating with the dead thread) then it would only be to myself. As more folks drop like flies, if I continued to be self-destructive I would be ultimately harming the GW efforts...and that's not something even silly me wants to do. I'm going to whine and complain how I never die in these games, but it is what it is.

You should have to admit yourself, Legate, the switch I've done was really stinkin' obvious. Not that I wouldn't be trying to play mind games as a wolf, but the confession you say that pinged your radar doesn't make sense if I were a wolf. First I'm a crazy sacrificial wolf, just trying to be disruptive...and suddenly I get turned into a wolf a 2nd time and decide I don't want to be the sacrificial wolf?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I'm back! And very suspicious of everyone.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

1. Why,why, WHY did Nogs throw in what looked like a 'wasted' vote for Eonwe after deadline when his own neck was on the line along with that of Lottie and Boro?
2. Is there any possible way Eonwe and Nogs could be on the same side?
3. Why do both Nerwen and Eomer trust Eonwe' innocence so much?
4. Why are Sally and Shasta so damn quiet?
5. Wouldn't Brinn have been a great candidate for wolf conversion?
6. Am I being a real airhead by vaguely trusting Nerwen and Legate to be innocents?
7. How has Boro survived this long?


I'm quiet cause I'm sick. :(

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Innocent of what though? We both know innocence is all based on one's point of view.

++Legate

Call it retaliation voting, but the way I see I'm not close to evening the score. He's got a 3 vote head start on me. The tunnel focus is rather unusual and strange from Legate.

I'm not going to deny my early intentionally trying to be suspicious so I can have a good, relaxing time with the dead. Going to blame someone who spends most of his days with a cubic ton of pressuring responsibilities, just wanting to be silly and fun for a while, try to take it easy? The sudden shift is I have a conscience and early on if I'm going to be random, possibly destructive (although I'm not sure how? I'm not the one who's tried to undermine communicating with the dead thread) then it would only be to myself. As more folks drop like flies, if I continued to be self-destructive I would be ultimately harming the GW efforts...and that's not something even silly me wants to do. I'm going to whine and complain how I never die in these games, but it is what it is.

You should have to admit yourself, Legate, the switch I've done was really stinkin' obvious. Not that I wouldn't be trying to play mind games as a wolf, but the confession you say that pinged your radar doesn't make sense if I were a wolf. First I'm a crazy sacrificial wolf, just trying to be disruptive...and suddenly I get turned into a wolf a 2nd time and decide I don't want to be the sacrificial wolf?

I like everything about this post. :p

[Nogrod]

I'm back! And very suspicious of everyone.Word.

(And I was hoping to go to sleep early finally this Day... but we were watching GoT with a buch of people - Legate and Lommy icluded.)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Now we're at the business end of the game, where everyone appears to have acted suspiciously, I'm becoming more and more inclined to vote based on who I would have picked were I the EW. Not very scientific, but there you go.

[Nogrod]

1. Why,why, WHY did Nogs throw in what looked like a 'wasted' vote for Eonwe after deadline when his own neck was on the line along with that of Lottie and Boro?I was trying to make it in time but was just late (waiting for that 30 second rule, like I told you). I did consider voting Lottie but it kind of felt cowardish because all I had on her was that I suspected her, had the feeling she was on the evil side - but I do most often suspect her so that isn't much to go for. Therefore I decided to stick to my real suspicions and see what happens as it wasn't exactly clear who were yet to vote and whom the Dead might empower.

2. Is there any possible way Eonwe and Nogs could be on the same side?Of course there is - even if that would be a sad state of affairs looking at the mutual suspicion.

3. Why do both Nerwen and Eomer trust Eonwe' innocence so much?There is at least one simple answer - although the question should probably be put more precisely: "Why do both Nerwen and Eomer say they trust Eönwe's innocence so much?"

4. Why are Sally and Shasta so damn quiet?I see Shasta already answering. Sally then, could be busy in RL? That's always an option. But it might make her a good target to convert into a wolf as well.

5. Wouldn't Brinn have been a great candidate for wolf conversion?Probably even better than Sally. Mith would have been even better so it's kind of odd she died last Night. Maybe some of those strange things going on?

6. Am I being a real airhead by vaguely trusting Nerwen and Legate to be innocents?With the former? Yes. With the latter? I don't know. I don't get an evil feeling from him just the normalish to-and-fro - but with the same breath I must say his early "point" toDay against Boro was quite odd - I mean he'd have jumped on that kind of a suggestion by someone else himself.

7. How has Boro survived this long?There have been "better" candidates to lynch?


I'm becoming more and more inclined to vote based on who I would have picked were I the EW. Not very scientific, but there you go.Not a bad strategy. It is at least a POV worth looking things from.

PS. quite funny that I have two votes - one from someone who speculates on different things happening here interpreted through the premise that the wolves have the upper hand in the Dead Thread, and by one who makes a special show how the wolves fill the Living Thread... :)

[Brinniel]

I get the meta reasoning that Eönwë might have been chosen as a wolf, but without some better indication, I think it's really odd to try to lynch someone who has arguably been the single most productive player.
I agree that suspecting someone on the sole grounds that they could make a good wolf conversion candidate is not a good enough reason to want to lynch them. My reason for voting for Eonwe yesterDay was because I found his Inzil vote suspicious combined with his extended focus on the Dead Thread.

I think it's also good to keep in mind that just because someone is the most productive player, it doesn't make them more innocent. I've found in many WW games that the most productive players turned out to be wolves.

[Nogrod]

I think it's also good to keep in mind that just because someone is the most productive player, it doesn't make them more innocent. I've found in many WW games that the most productive players turned out to be wolves.Exactly. And no, I'm not wishing to go into the debate of "what it means to be productive" - but to say I'd use a different term here with Eönwe. We'll probably all understand in a roundabout way well enough what we are talking here.

What makes me worried about Nerwen (among some other things) is that she uses the fact that someone discusses a lot of some general or strategic issues as a sign of being a goodie with Eönwe and as a sign of being a baddie with me. And she also says I'm suspicious because I talk about other things than suspicions & voting near the DL, which actually isn't the case - but which is the case most obviously with Eönwe.

So arguments seem to be to her only tools to help clear Eönwe and to cast shadow on me - whatever the logic of her defences / accusations or the truthfulness of them is. We innocents need to actually try find the direction they're pointing at - we do not know who it's okay to lynch and who isn't. The evil on the other hand can always just try and see what kind of argument s/he could use in any given circumstance to further her/his own evil agenda.

[Lalaith]

I've been putting the pieces of the jigsaw together in different ways and here's a quartet of evil that might fit together: Eomer, Eonwe, Shasta and Boro.

When I make Nogs a baddie, fewer pieces fit.

What is depressing is that even if Lottie was evil the EW could have made another wolf last night instead.
I feel very worried about our prospects, innocents.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

You're just saying that, Brinniel, because you would obviously have been chosen by every one of us by now. :p

Anyway, we have to try and second-guess our enemy.

Just look at the list of The Living:

Nerwen
Boromir88
Shastanis Althreduin
satansaloser2005
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Eönwë
Nogrod
Brinniel

That is what I would call 'loudmouth-heavy'; it's only being balanced somewhat by Shasta & Sally being quieter than normal. Add the lynchees to this: Inzil fits in nicely; and Loslote certainly got stuck right in.

There's one or two quieter types in there. What I need to consider is: how safe is the quiet wolf in this place?

[Brinniel]

Nogrod, I don't think you have a very valid excuse for voting late. After all, you were around a lot yesterDay and if you were truly unsure of who to vote, you could've spent more time thinking about other villagers rather than place so much attention on the Dead Thread and other distracting subjects. I mean really, those scenario posts might've been hilarious early Day One, but in the final hours of Day 3, I just found them to be a headache and waste of time getting through while trying to catch up on so many posts.

The problem with Nogrod is that I do find his behavior suspicious, but then I wonder if maybe he really is just an innocent allowing himself to get muddled up with the complexities of the game. If he is innocent, he makes to be very easy lynch candidate for the baddies.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Chin up Lal, we're bound to get info at some point. Still got the duel to come. And the smaller the village gets the more likely we are to bag one of these hideous wolves.

[Nogrod]

I've been putting the pieces of the jigsaw together in different ways and here's a quartet of evil that might fit together: Eomer, Eonwe, Shasta and Boro.Unless Boro was the first pick by the EW (possible but not probable - looking at Boro's behaviour in the end of D1?), it would have been pretty daring from the EW to pick him. Could Boro be the EW? Well his D1 behaviour would have been even more daring in that case.

There's one or two quieter types in there. What I need to consider is: how safe is the quiet wolf in this place?Looks like pretty safe indeed.

Looking at it from the other direction: whom the EW should not have picked aka. who are those people you'd lose as lynchees more probably than not quite early in the game? It's like looking at the people who are now Dead (whichever way they died) Inzil, Lottie, Lommy - they tend to get lynched quite often, quite early. Same actually fits me - and my predicament doesn't look that easy right now either.

Which is kind of a scary thought - if Zil and Lottie were both innocents (too risky for the EW to pick) - we have then lynched only innocents (and if Eönwe and Nerwen have it their way with me you lose third innocent). Well, maybe those Nightly oddities meant our gifteds are doing it better than we are.

[Lalaith]

Unless Boro was the first pick by the EW (possible but not probable - looking at Boro's behaviour in the end of D1?),
well he could have been a wolf trying to get into the Dead Thread early to mess it up...

[Lalaith]

That is what I would call 'loudmouth-heavy';
Well you'd think...we've barely had over a page of posting today though....

[satansaloser2005]

I got stuck at work super late again. *whines* I'm home and hopping on my laptop in a few minutes.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Also finally back here and want to vote soon and sleep soon.

Even though I am still suspicious of Nog, his last post makes me waver again, because some of it sounds very genuine. At the same time Boro's again rather re-kindled my suspicion of him. I mean, that talk about "I am not even close to evening up the score", what kind of a talk is that? Who cares about retaliation, but why would you justify your vote by saying "you voted for me this many times, so I have to do the same"? Again, what absolutely puzzles me about Boro is that this behavior does not make any sense. Like not even for a Wolf. But for whom then? I mean if a Cobbler existed, I would be fine. But if the circumstances in this game are either that you are innocent or a Wolf or EW, then after eliminating the basic possibilities that at least I don't think you would act this way if you had an important good role, then its more logical to assume you have a bad role.

I'm not going to deny my early intentionally trying to be suspicious so I can have a good, relaxing time with the dead. Going to blame someone who spends most of his days with a cubic ton of pressuring responsibilities, just wanting to be silly and fun for a while, try to take it easy? The sudden shift is I have a conscience and early on if I'm going to be random, possibly destructive (although I'm not sure how? I'm not the one who's tried to undermine communicating with the dead thread) then it would only be to myself. As more folks drop like flies, if I continued to be self-destructive I would be ultimately harming the GW efforts...and that's not something even silly me wants to do. I'm going to whine and complain how I never die in these games, but it is what it is.
Well if you put it that way, that isn't the issue, I'd perfectly understand that. However...

You should have to admit yourself, Legate, the switch I've done was really stinkin' obvious. Not that I wouldn't be trying to play mind games as a wolf, but the confession you say that pinged your radar doesn't make sense if I were a wolf. First I'm a crazy sacrificial wolf, just trying to be disruptive...and suddenly I get turned into a wolf a 2nd time and decide I don't want to be the sacrificial wolf?
Well if you had been turned, you wouldn't have much of a choice, right? I don't know, I was just puzzled from the start by your behavior (but ok, yes, we've been through it), but I remember how you tend to play (or at least tended to play; it's true it has been some time and styles can change) when innocent, and neither of these behaviors simply fit that. I am used to inquisitive Boro poking people, sometimes even to the point where it becomes visible if they bend or break, but this was just a completely different game than what I am used to from you. The "suicidal tendencies" looked as if you were being played by Nilpaurion Felagund or something (but ok, you've explained that, or at least claim that). But your behavior simply goes over my head here. And yes, part of me has been thinking that for a long time that I should have probably given up on that. But another part of me is that well, if there is someone who is acting clearly fishy - in clearest sense of the word - it was you, so getting you off the hook just because I don't know what to think about it is not really an answer.

Agh. Gotta think.

EDIT: x-ed with Nog, Lal, Eo, Brinniel and some...

[Nogrod]

well he could have been a wolf trying to get into the Dead Thread early to mess it up...I'm yet to be convinced on why would the wolves want to be there? They win with the numbers here. And the communication is at the paper-telephone level already without them, so what's the real gain - especially as they will be totally outnumbered there in a Day or two from the beginning of the game?*

It is possible some people actually thought the evil side would like to put one of them there though. But I'd presume the EW had actually thought that out.

So yes, he could have been, but I do doubt it.


* EDIT: noticed a place for misinterpretation here - the added edit is underlined.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

There's one or two quieter types in there. What I need to consider is: how safe is the quiet wolf in this place?

That's actually a pretty good point. Which brings me back to my thoughts earlier on regarding Brinniel, Mith, and Sally. Okay, now Mith is dead, plus Brinniel isn't really that quiet anymore. Problem is, it's really difficult to keep track of people when they are not posting much. Like Sally hasn't posted practically anything toDay. (Nor much before, for that matter.) But exactly that kind of tactic could keep her completely off everyone's radar.

EDIT: x-ed with Nog

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I'm very suspicious of Boro too, mostly because I'm thinking that the EW will reckon if he survived the start of this game then he'd survive anything. I'm wary of Nogrod too but there's something making me hesitate jumping on that bandwagon.

I have a very strong feeling that Nerwen is involved somehow but I don't want to guess how just yet. Wish I knew Loslote's role right now...

Lalaith and Brinniel are just too.... I don't even know the word, just too themselves...

Still the only one I'm leaning innocent on is Eonwe, and that of course might have changed since yesterday!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Something I think we can all agree on, though, is that I'm way less suspicious than normal. :D

[Lalaith]

That's actually a pretty good point. Which brings me back to my thoughts earlier on regarding Brinniel, Mith, and Sally.
Actually the biggest submarine is poor sick Shasta...(16 posts) followed by Sally and Brinn (22 each). Eomer is fourth lowest living poster with 32.

[Nogrod]

I think I have problem following most everyone's track... :rolleyes: *

I have no chance of doing this toDay, but will try to do it toMorrow if I'm still around - if I'm not, I suggest someone does it - or some people do it collectively (and if someone already has this kind of a list, please share it).

So looking back to everyone alive to see whom they have actually voiced suspicion over. I mean voiced a suspicion, not anything like "X is always suspicious" or first Day "you must be a wolf" -banter. But like actually declaring one suspects some another person X.

I'll bet that most evil can be found from among those who have not voiced open suspicions on anyone or have made them of only one or few people - possibly such whom others have voiced suspicions already. Voicing open suspicions is always dangerous and suspecting many draws you near the gallows as people, quite naturally, feel bad about it and, if innocent, start to see evil in the suspecter (or if evil can use it as a reason to vote back - or at least suspect that person back).

Also seeing all the "real suspicions" might help to build a larger picture of relations, which there sure are already now. Just looking at the voting patterns is not that productive, especially as we don't know things like we normally would do after lynchings.

So that's a suggestion for toMorrow.

Now thinking of voting...


EDIT: The beginning is an answer to this by Legate: "Problem is, it's really difficult to keep track of people when they are not posting much."
EDIT2: I'll promise to stop editing...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'm very suspicious of Boro too, mostly because I'm thinking that the EW will reckon if he survived the start of this game then he'd survive anything. I'm wary of Nogrod too but there's something making me hesitate jumping on that bandwagon.

I have a very strong feeling that Nerwen is involved somehow but I don't want to guess how just yet. Wish I knew Loslote's role right now...
You are basically saying what I'm thinking here.

Lalaith and Brinniel are just too.... I don't even know the word, just too themselves...
I haven't been too much concerned about either of them because they mostly have been saying lots of things which sounded sensible or genuine. And this sort of "I am participating in a positive manner". Which nobody says can't be a perfect cover for a Wolf. But I am absolutely not opening that can of worms now.

Still the only one I'm leaning innocent on is Eonwe, and that of course might have changed since yesterday!
Well there were so many times people have said "and yesterDay he seemed innocent, but toNight he might have been turned..." that if after the game, we learn that he's been the EW or something like that...

But anyway. I want to decide some sort of a vote. I really, really don't want to keep voting Boro for four times in a row, but I wonder if I'll be at peace ever until his role is revealed. But okay, now I will step back, get everything ready so I can go to sleep, try to refresh my mind at the same time and then come back and vote.

EDIT: x-ed with second Eomer, Lalaith, and Nog

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

2 votes for Nog and 1 for Legate.

So who's around? And, as is tradition, anyone for no-lynch?

[Nogrod]

I seem to be, even if I though trying to go to bed early. But yes, half an hour only so might actually sit it to the end.

Few thoughts to follow.

[satansaloser2005]

This has probably already been said, but I feel like finding out Lottie's role ASAP will give us some good ideas about others. For instance, if she is a wolf, Nog probably needs to shave, etc.


Nerwen: Pinging my radar as someone to watch, but not yet suspicious of her.
Boro: Not likely a wolf, but perhaps an evil wizard who knew he couldn't die via lynch? Watch, now this is how I die. :rolleyes:
Shasta: My poor sick little wolf boy. *nuzzles* Poor darling. Don't hurt him! (To clarify, this is what I call him quite often. I feel his quietness is not suspect, but it also admittedly doesn't give us a lot to go on.)
Sally: A good little cupcake.
Eomer: He of the no-lynch. Frustrating (:p), but I still believe him to be good.
Lalaith: No read whatsoever. Lal, what witchcraft is this? I can never read you!
Legate: Reasonable enough, but he seems oddly....chill? This of course isn't a bad thing, but his tone reads like a past Legate wolf. In my top few candidates, but not my priority at the moment.
Steve: My top choice for lynch toDay based on yesterDay, but see below.
Nogrod: Uhhhhh, his vote yesterDay looks highly suspect coupled with my suspicion of Lottie. I wouldn't be averse to lynching him toDay out of caution, though I'd like to know Lottie's alignment first, as something doesn't sit right.
Brinniel: Quiet like myself. I have a niggle I need to dig into further before I let my imagination get the best of me, so I'll check it out later and post it tomorrow either here or on the Dead Thread. It may be nothing, but I'll find out.


x'd since Lal's ranking of the submarines

[Brinniel]

Actually the biggest submarine is poor sick Shasta...(16 posts) followed by Sally and Brinn (22 each). Eomer is fourth lowest living poster with 32.
I don't know, I would argue that Sally is the biggest submarine. While Shasta may have less posts, I feel like his at least have more content than hers.

EDIT: X-post...and coincidentally Sally has posted some more content.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

++Legate I still feel that he's evil. I know I haven't given any real argument towards that being the case, and I apologize for being so very lackluster.

[Nogrod]

If we think the Dead communicated to us then Zil was innocent. Of the Zil band-wagon there are three alive toDay: Nerwen, Boro and Eönwe.

YesterDay two of these, Nerwen and Eönwe, voted for an innocent person trying seriously to get the ball rolling - and they have continued with the same target toDay. You naturally do not know this target's innocence, but I do.

If I was the EW, I would have chosen people like Brinn or Lalaith if looking for easy-going trustworthy wolves, or then maybe Nerwen for more effect. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when have you seen one of these to be lynched early in the game? A submarine is oftentimes a safe bet as well as they tend to be seldom lynched (there's always a "better" candidate).

I see one name popping out from all the three situations...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

All right

Wizards: Nerwen & Brinniel

Wolves/Gifteds: (Loslote), Boro, Lalaith, Shasta, Sally, Legate

Poor little ordos: Eonwe, Nogrod, and me.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I'm gonna guess both Nogrod and Legate are around and willing to lynch Boro?

[Brinniel]

My top suspects for lynching are Legate and Eonwe. Legate for reasons I stated earlier toDay and my opinion of Eonwe has not changed since yesterDay.

Nogrod is another I'm still considering, but I'm feeling slightly hesitant about him.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Of course, we're all in the same group (with Lalaith) if the Dead want to indicate that Loslote was predator - does that matter?

[Nogrod]

I kind of doubted Boro would be a wolf, but then someone made a fair point: after seeing that he survived the D1-stuff the EW realised he'd sail through and turned him.

Like said, I'm not sure it is a great reason to vote for someone, but it is reason, especially if one thinks the person acts fishy or oddly anyway.

[Nogrod]

I'm all for lynching Eönwe, not that much for Legate - I have doubts on everyone, naturally, but nothing special towards him (his latest posts have seem okay to me).

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I am obviously not opposed to lynching Boro.

Of course, we're all in the same group (with Lalaith) if the Dead want to indicate that Loslote was predator - does that matter?

Well if so, vote-wise it doesn't matter, and then the narration will tell who of us was empowered in such case, but it does not really make a difference in terms of votes.

EDIT: x-ed with Nog

[satansaloser2005]

++Steve


I'm more comfortable with him than Nog or Legate at this point, and I think this could be a safe shot at a redirection of the lynch. I certainly feel better about this than throwing behind one of the other current trains.



x'd with Legate

[Nogrod]

Stupid or not, I'll vote in time and open a third choice.

++ Boro


Eönwe -> Nogrod
Nerwen -> Nogrod 2
Boro -> Legate
Shasta -> Legate 2
Sally -> Eönwe
Nogrod -> Boro


EDIT: X'd with Sally... hmm...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

++boro

[satansaloser2005]

Of course, if this ends up as a huge tie, I'll be very cross with myself. :rolleyes:


x'd with Nog and Eomer :eek:

[Nogrod]

Now this got interesting then...

[Lalaith]

Ok, I don't know what to do.
Nogs was ringing alarm bells all over the place for me yesterDay at DL and i was, at the time, thinking "oh my goodness what is this, I am so going to push for a lynch if I survive the night". (Well I thought something along those lines but I've cleaned it up as we can't cuss on the Downs) And what is worrying me is that he keeps explaining why he missed the deadline but hasn't explained why he needed to wait *until* the deadline

I would still be up for voting to lynch Boro. Particularly as he said he wasn't going to be weird anymore and then his vote for Legate was really weird.

Eomer I voted for on Day 2 but then other people started worrying me more: he is being very insouciant and genial at the moment and that's nice, but I wonder if I was wrong to take my eye off him. Nobody else seems to suspect him though.

And then there's Eonwe. He's like one of those pictures where you don't know if you see a vase or two faces...one minute I look and see innocence, the next I totally see why Brinn was gunning for him.

I do not think Legate is guilty and won't vote for him. I am totally at sea about Nogs. I fear I will regret whatever I do.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Ok, let's just do it.

++Boro

EDIT: xed with Nog and Lal

[Lalaith]

++ Boro

[Nogrod]

The Dead will be very happy indeed. :rolleyes:

[Brinniel]

++Eonwe

EDIT: X-ed since #576

[Nogrod]

Highlight!

[satansaloser2005]

My sweet Boro! What have you done? :(



Well, if I'm right and the lynch doesn't go through, at least we'll know.

[Lalaith]

yes I know, I know, I've just gone back and done it!
*flustered*

[Nogrod]

This should be correct?

Eönwe -> Nogrod
Nerwen -> Nogrod 2
Boro -> Legate
Shasta -> Legate 2
Nogrod -> Boro
Eomer -> Boro 2
Legate -> Boro 3
Lalaith -> Boro 4
Brinn -> Eönwe

[satansaloser2005]

You missed mine, which makes it....

Eönwe -> Nogrod
Nerwen -> Nogrod 2
Boro -> Legate
Shasta -> Legate 2
Sally -> Steve
Nogrod -> Boro
Eomer -> Boro 2
Legate -> Boro 3
Lalaith -> Boro 4
Brinn -> Steve 2


That means it's Boro regardless of empowerment, right?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Ok, was that everyone voting? Probably was.

[Nogrod]

This was even more sudden than yesterDay's voting even if it took place a few minutes earlier.

Well, let's hope it went well. I kind of have a feeling we might have done good.

[Kuruharan]

The Deadline has come.

Please stop posting.

Narration to follow.

[satansaloser2005]

Lord Kuru, we beg you, appear! *throws glitter and bone dust*


x'd with the mod due to internet hiccups. Curses, foiled again!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Oh Dead! Though you hate and envy we Living, please send us a gift!

[Kuruharan]

It was a busy DAY among the guests.

Except for the hours long pauses where they just sat and stared at each other.

Then they would burst into frantic activity...and then stop.

Shastanis Althreduin suddenly leapt to his feet and cried, "I FEEL STRANGELY EMPOWERED!"

"That's nice, dear," said one of the other guests.

"Let's kill Boro," suddenly piped up one.

"Good idea," said another.

"He's wanted to die for ages," agreed a third.

"But I'm not invoking the magic words," said Boro. "I don't want to die now."

"Too bad!"

*grab*

"But...wait, waaaaaait! I don't want to die now! I have a plan...

CLUNK!!!

Those who were expecting something weird to happen were surely disappointed as his head sheared off and rolled away across the ground.

"Oh well, he's in a better place," said an oddly cheerful voice.

Those who knew his head would sheer off were mad with glee.

Living
Nerwen
Shastanis Althreduin
satansaloser2005
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Eönwë
Nogrod
Brinniel

The Dead
Morsul the Dark
Inziladun
Thinlómien
Loslote
Mithalwen
Boromir88

Escaped
Pervinca Took (Ordo)

[Kuruharan]

The Deadline for the start of the next day will be two hours earlier at 6:00 PM US Eastern.

I have a work meeting tomorrow evening and will not be able to post at the usual time.

I'm quite sorry about this, but there is no help for it.

[Kuruharan]

bzzzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZzzz booOOOOOoop *fizzle*

"Can you believe this?!" came a voice.

That was the only noise in the NIGHT.

Suddenly, dawn came suspiciously early. Surely that couldn't portend anything.

The guests gathered round the guillotine.

As was expected by this point, their number was reduced by one.

No more Nogrod.

In spite of his absence, this promised to be a most interesting DAY.

Living
Nerwen
Shastanis Althreduin
satansaloser2005
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Eönwë
Brinniel

The Dead
Morsul the Dark
Inziladun
Thinlómien
Loslote
Mithalwen
Boromir88
Nogrod

Escaped
Pervinca Took (Ordo)

[Lalaith]

This gets stranger and stranger. And scarier. What are all these noises meant to mean?

Well, it looks like Nogs was innocent after all, so I'm glad we didn't lynch him.
I've been thinking about what the Dead are trying to tell us (apart from the rather depressing fact that Lottie was innocent, as well). They seem to like the votes for Eonwe and Legate.
Also, if we are all still here - are we innocents still in a small majority? (5 versus 3, in that case?)
Or can the game not end until there is a Duel?

[satansaloser2005]

Curiouser and curiouser. I need a drink.... :rolleyes:

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I would not have expected the wolves to kill Nogrod, that's for sure.

Will try to do an actual coherent post-analysis at some point today on Legate.

[Nerwen]

I would not have expected the wolves to kill Nogrod, that's for sure.

Will try to do an actual coherent post-analysis at some point today on Legate.
They must have thought he was a gifted/ the GW. It certainly isn't a no-trace kill, and it doesn't make sense as a frame.

...And now you know why I kept getting cold feet about voting him, even though he was really acting awfully suspicious. I've seen Nog get obsessed like that as an innocent (and as a wolf).

[Nerwen]

This gets stranger and stranger. And scarier. What are all these noises meant to mean?

Well, it looks like Nogs was innocent after all, so I'm glad we didn't lynch him.
I've been thinking about what the Dead are trying to tell us (apart from the rather depressing fact that Lottie was innocent, as well). They seem to like the votes for Eonwe and Legate.
Also, if we are all still here - are we innocents still in a small majority? (5 versus 3, in that case?)
Or can the game not end until there is a Duel?
Wasn't it clarified that it still works like a normal game, in that respect?

About the Dead- I think they make their decision as to whom to empower during the Day, don't they? So likely before all the votes are in. Or were those early votes?

[Lalaith]

They must have thought he was a gifted/ the GW. It certainly isn't a no-trace kill, and it doesn't make sense as a frame.
I wondered if they killed him as a scry - they might have wondered if he was the GW.
The wolves have, I suppose, two goes at a GW scry each Night - if they try to turn or kill the GW they get told they've found him/her, right?

[Nerwen]

I wondered if they killed him as a scry - they might have wondered if he was the GW.
The wolves have, I suppose, two goes at a GW scry each Night - if they try to turn or kill the GW they get told they've found him/her, right?
Well, the target's failure to die would convey that anyway.

Was the site down for anyone else?

[Lalaith]

, the target's failure to die would convey that anyway.

Was the site down for anyone else?
Well it could be a Ranger save. But I'm pretty sure the rules say EW gets told about any attempt on the GW.
Yes the site was down for me. Hence anxious post on the FB page.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

This gets stranger and stranger. And scarier. What are all these noises meant to mean?

Well, it looks like Nogs was innocent after all, so I'm glad we didn't lynch him.
I've been thinking about what the Dead are trying to tell us (apart from the rather depressing fact that Lottie was innocent, as well). They seem to like the votes for Eonwe and Legate.
Also, if we are all still here - are we innocents still in a small majority? (5 versus 3, in that case?)
Or can the game not end until there is a Duel?
There clearly are not as many baddies as there could have been (which would be half by now, so the game would have ended). Which means that either we lynched some (which would have to be Boro), or they didn't make a Wolf every Night (or some combination of both).

They must have thought he was a gifted/ the GW. It certainly isn't a no-trace kill, and it doesn't make sense as a frame.
It certainly isn't a kill of a "quiet player", that's for sure. He also talked basically about everyone. Although since you are saying it wouldn't make sense as a frame - that actually got me thinking why would you specifically say that, because I would not first even see people his death would point at, since he talked about everyone, let alone that it could somehow be a bluff to frame someone. But he got votes from you and Eönwë (and he could have gotten more votes, like I was all the time considering him, and I am pretty sure I wasn't the only one). But since you are so eager to downplay any connections, could Wolf-Nerwen or EW-Nerwen be so desperate (for whichever reason) to kill Nog to try to lynch him and then kill him when it didn't work out? But the reason is the problem there - it's the same problem as the idea that he was killed because they thought him to be a Gifted or a GW - it's all fine, but I don't think he behaved in any way "specially". Unless he voiced his opinion on somebody specific and it was spot on - but he was voicing his opinion on everything.

I wondered if they killed him as a scry - they might have wondered if he was the GW.
The wolves have, I suppose, two goes at a GW scry each Night - if they try to turn or kill the GW they get told they've found him/her, right?
It would make sense that way, too. Speaking of that, I would have expected a Wizard Duel by now. So maybe if the Wizards are sort of trying to maximise the amount of people they scry, since they somehow didn't manage to learn each other's identities yet?

But anyway, for me it is like back to the drawing board and I might try to look at the village freshly, because we can be like anywhere.

[Nerwen]

There clearly are not as many baddies as there could have been (which would be half by now, so the game would have ended). Which means that either we lynched some (which would have to be Boro), or they didn't make a Wolf every Night (or some combination of both).
Eomer speculated yesterDay that the Night Four wolf-kill had been blocked by a Ranger-save and that the "buzzing" signalled the transformation of Mith into a Visitor. Seems we can rule that out- but then what did happen? A normal Wolf-kill + the EW's scrying/conversion being blocked? And what about Night Two and last Night? It must mean something that the "buzzing" only occurs on some Nights and not others. Note that it did not occur on the Night One, on which we know (or at least can assume) a wolf was created- so it doesn't mean that. Does it mean scrying? Does it indicate "streams crossing", so to speak- one power cancelling another out? Note also that the narrations on two of those nights seems to indicate something being thwarted. I'm harping on this because it may give us some clue *when* wolf-conversions occurred.

It certainly isn't a kill of a "quiet player", that's for sure. He also talked basically about everyone. Although since you are saying it wouldn't make sense as a frame - that actually got me thinking why would you specifically say that, because I would not first even see people his death would point at, since he talked about everyone, let alone that it could somehow be a bluff to frame someone. But he got votes from you and Eönwë (and he could have gotten more votes, like I was all the time considering him, and I am pretty sure I wasn't the only one). But since you are so eager to downplay any connections, could Wolf-Nerwen or EW-Nerwen be so desperate (for whichever reason) to kill Nog to try to lynch him and then kill him when it didn't work out? But the reason is the problem there - it's the same problem as the idea that he was killed because they thought him to be a Gifted or a GW - it's all fine, but I don't think he behaved in any way "specially". Unless he voiced his opinion on somebody specific and it was spot on - but he was voicing his opinion on everything.
My thought is that his "maybe evil" behaviour looked "maybe gifted/wizardy" to the wolves, who after all had the benefit of knowing what he *wasn't*.

And no, I'm not "eager to downplay" the possibility that I killed him, since from my point of view it isn't a possibility. Who do you think I am, Volo?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Eomer speculated yesterDay that the Night Four wolf-kill had been blocked by a Ranger-save and that the "buzzing" signalled the transformation of Mith into a Visitor. Seems we can rule that out- but then what did happen? A normal Wolf-kill + the EW's scrying/conversion being blocked? And what about Night Two and last Night? It must mean something that the "buzzing" only occurs on some Nights and not others. Note that it did not occur on the Night One, on which we know (or at least can assume) a wolf was created- so it doesn't mean that. Does it mean scrying? Does it indicate "streams crossing", so to speak- one power cancelling another out? Note also that the narrations on two of those nights seems to indicate something being thwarted. I'm harping on this because it may give us some clue *when* wolf-conversions occurred.
Yes, that's actually a good point. There is also the sentence about "many powers swirling around" in the second Night, which makes it seem like there were more things than usual, or something more dramatic happening.

My thought is that his "maybe evil" behaviour looked "maybe gifted/wizardy" to the wolves, who after all had the benefit of knowing what he *wasn't*.
Well that could be the case, but it seems still fairly random to me.

And no, I'm not "eager to downplay" the possibility that I killed him, since from my point of view it isn't a possibility. Who do you think I am, Volo?
Well you would obviously know who you are, but it was that you dismissed it so noncommitally that struck me. Besides, it could have pointed at you as much as at Eönwë for the same reason (Nog also voted him and he had voiced some suspicion of Eönwë earlier), and you did not seem to consider that.

That all being said, considering how many of us are left, we obviously have baddies among people who have managed not to draw suspicion from the very beginning, and I am going to take a closer look at people I haven't found suspicious so far. The worst thing about this game is that we don't know about any roles of Wolves, which could offer some pointers as to who might be packmates with whom. Without that, it's really difficult to find Wolves who manage to remain looking innocent and don't do anything that would have clearly evil intent.

[Nerwen]

Well you would obviously know who you are, but it was that you dismissed it so noncommitally that struck me. Besides, it could have pointed at you as much as at Eönwë for the same reason (Nog also voted him and he had voiced some suspicion of Eönwë earlier), and you did not seem to consider that.
A wolf killing someone *just* for suspecting him at this point? When there could be a Hunter around? As I said, that scenario seems too weak even for a frame.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

'bzzzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZzzz booOOOOOoop *fizzle*'

"Can you believe this?!" came a voice.

------

It would indeed be difficult to believe if this buzzing indicated GW and EW targeting same person 3 out of 5 nights, but it's a possibility. Obviously my visitor theory seems false now.

But what about this from Boro's lynch:

"Those who knew his head would sheer off were mad with glee."

What's this about? Who could have known he wasn't a wizard? Was he the one double-targeted on the previous night, and this info was passed along to the wolves? Maybe. Has there really only been 2 wolves this whole time?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Eh.... the first two times the fizzle is accompanied with clanging and banging and a doink and a pop. Nothing like that last night. So there is maybe a difference.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

A wolf killing someone *just* for suspecting him at this point? When there could be a Hunter around? As I said, that scenario seems too weak even for a frame.
Well as weak as all the others, anyway. That's what's wrong with the whole Nog's death.

Eh.... the first two times the fizzle is accompanied with clanging and banging and a doink and a pop. Nothing like that last night. So there is maybe a difference.
Last Night, there was not a doink but there was a fizzle. But some of those noises were marked in red, so maybe they could be in some way more relevant than the rest? Or signify something specific? In any case, looking at it, Night 3 was the only one that was generally quiet (and Night 1 obviously).

Anyway, I'm in a middle of things now so can't post anything long but hope I'll be able to post again soon with more thoughts.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

It would indeed be difficult to believe if this buzzing indicated GW and EW targeting same person 3 out of 5 nights, but it's a possibility. Obviously my visitor theory seems false now.
Btw it isn't possible that Nog could have been a Visitor and that a Ranger save took place toNight? Because that would explain the lack of red-marked words if they meant something else on the previous Nights. It would also explain the really weird fact of Nog dying of all people.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh and btw we should make a list for the Dead to vote on. Like:

BORO PREY
Nerwen
Shastanis Althreduin
satansaloser2005

BORO PREDATOR
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc

NONE OF THE ABOVE
Eönwë
Brinniel

(or upside-down, if we want to change the order again, or what have you)

[Lalaith]

I am RL extremely busy today and also this evening, and will not have much time to post. I will be here at or before deadline and I will try to vote as helpfully as I can (I am still feeling fairly pessimistic about our - and I mean the innocents - chances of victory)
Kuru, is deadline normal toDay?

[Lalaith]

I'm good with Legate's list I think, can't see any major flaws.

[Lalaith]

One thing that could have happened - and correct me if I've read the rules wrong - the GW could have chosen a Wolf as the Visitor Who Leaves.
That way, I think, the wolf no longer counts as a living wolf, which is why we are all still here?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

One thing that could have happened - and correct me if I've read the rules wrong - the GW could have chosen a Wolf as the Visitor Who Leaves.
That way, I think, the wolf no longer counts as a living wolf, which is why we are all still here?

We've not had a ghostly visit yet, so it's possible that this happened for wolf-Nogrod. However, that would mean Ranger-save last night. The narration suggests that more things happened on the previous night though.

Also, the fizzle without a bang or a clang or a pop or a doink from last night.... there's also this from the naration:

'No more Nogrod.

In spite of his absence, this promised to be a most interesting DAY."

Is it time for the duel?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Ok I have been thinking... with all the buzzing and all that...

Is it technically possible that we have really very few baddies here? Or if I wanted to go to the extreme, it is technically possible that we have only one Wizard and one Wolf and just keep lynching each other like crazy?

As in, the absolutely craziest scenario is if Boro was a Wolf (or if Nog was a Wolf and was made into the Visitor Who Leaves) and it was the only Wolf and there is just the EW at the moment.

Not that it objectively changes much: we are simply hunting Wolves. And I don't think it so likely anyway. But if something along those lines happened, it would explain some things.

Objectively, I think it's likely we have at least two baddies here (i.e. EW and a Wolf). In that sense, I am again brought to Nog's remarks yesterDay:
If we think the Dead communicated to us then Zil was innocent. Of the Zil band-wagon there are three alive toDay: Nerwen, Boro and Eönwe.

YesterDay two of these, Nerwen and Eönwe, voted for an innocent person trying seriously to get the ball rolling - and they have continued with the same target toDay. You naturally do not know this target's innocence, but I do.

If I was the EW, I would have chosen people like Brinn or Lalaith if looking for easy-going trustworthy wolves, or then maybe Nerwen for more effect. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when have you seen one of these to be lynched early in the game? A submarine is oftentimes a safe bet as well as they tend to be seldom lynched (there's always a "better" candidate).

I see one name popping out from all the three situations...
There is something to it. It is mostly about combinatorics now, but an evil duo of Eönwë as EW plus Nerwen as a Wolf, for instance, would make sense. (I mean not saying this is the only option. But if I had to say a name right now, I would probably pick one of the two, mostly still because that they were in safer spots in the Zilwagon. Nerwen's vote there was in a more "innocentish" place there, if you will, but at the same time I would probably suspect her more of the two because of the minor things such as the Zilcident, or in this morning, I am not sure if it really couldn't have been a way to not try to look at any connections of Nog to other people.)

EDIT: x-ed with Lalaith and Eomer

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

One thing that could have happened - and correct me if I've read the rules wrong - the GW could have chosen a Wolf as the Visitor Who Leaves.
That way, I think, the wolf no longer counts as a living wolf, which is why we are all still here?

Yeah, that's what I have been just thinking (see above).

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

But what about this from Boro's lynch:

"Those who knew his head would sheer off were mad with glee."

What's this about? Who could have known he wasn't a wizard? Was he the one double-targeted on the previous night, and this info was passed along to the wolves? Maybe. Has there really only been 2 wolves this whole time?

I suppose it's possible that the GW could have informed the gifted(s) that Boro was a wolf. In any case, Boro must have been targeted by both wizards. If they both did it the previous night, then it would be the EW/wolves mad with glee; same if the GW had got to him first. But if the EW had got to him first then it could be the GW/gifted mad with glee.

All right, new hypothesis based on complete guesswork around the narrations.

Night 1: nothing weird; everyone targets different people.

Night 2: Very loud buzzing, bang, fizzle, pop. 'Absolute silence' - the EW and the GW targeted same person. Nothing changes.

Night 3: same as Night 1.

Night 4: buzzing, whoosh, clang, doink, 'who put that there?' The other wizard targets Boro and is thwarted. 'Silence without stillness, swirling of many powers' - what is this.......

Night 5: buzzing, fizzle, nothing. Can you believe this?' 'That was the only noise in the night'. Wizard finds Wizard.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I'm leaning away from Nog being the visitor, simply because I would have expected a Ranger save to be more strongly hinted at. This would mean it's the GW who keeps getting thwarted, because we haven't seen the visitor yet, suggesting that Boro was indeed a wolf and that it was the GW plus gifted who were happy that Boro was on the chopping block.

Wishful thinking maybe.

[Kuruharan]

Kuru, is deadline normal toDay?

It is, indeed.

I've had it asked of me separately so I will insert a few clarifications here.

1. The Evil Wizard counts in the Baddie column for tabulating the win.

2. Killing the Good Wizard is not per se a win condition of the Baddie side. Their win condition is to reduce the Goodies down to an equal or lower number than themselves.

3. The Goodie win condition is to eliminate all the Baddies, including the Evil Wizard.

One thing that could have happened - and correct me if I've read the rules wrong - the GW could have chosen a Wolf as the Visitor Who Leaves.
That way, I think, the wolf no longer counts as a living wolf, which is why we are all still here?

This is not correct. An individual can be a Wolf and a Visitor at the same time, but a Wolf would still count as a Baddie so long as they were still in the Living Thread. They would no longer count for that purpose once they became a Ghost on their return.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Since I'm feeling we're so close to the end, I'm throwing caution a bit to the wind now. I am operating under the assumption that Boro was a wolf, and that makes Legate and Lalaith seem innocent to me. In this crazy game, I just want something simple to hold on to!

I've had a quick read of posts since Night 3; will try again in a little while to try and get some impressions of what people were saying about him.

[Nerwen]

I suppose it's possible that the GW could have informed the gifted(s) that Boro was a wolf. In any case, Boro must have been targeted by both wizards. If they both did it the previous night, then it would be the EW/wolves mad with glee; same if the GW had got to him first. But if the EW had got to him first then it could be the GW/gifted mad with glee.

All right, new hypothesis based on complete guesswork around the narrations.

Night 1: nothing weird; everyone targets different people.

Night 2: Very loud buzzing, bang, fizzle, pop. 'Absolute silence' - the EW and the GW targeted same person. Nothing changes.

Night 3: same as Night 1.

Night 4: buzzing, whoosh, clang, doink, 'who put that there?' The other wizard targets Boro and is thwarted. 'Silence without stillness, swirling of many powers' - what is this.......

Night 5: buzzing, fizzle, nothing. Can you believe this?' 'That was the only noise in the night'. Wizard finds Wizard.
Well, *if* this interpretation is correct, Night 3 is the only Night on which a second wolf could have been created. Hmmn.

Edit: x'd with Eomer.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Night 1, Night 3 (Boro) and Night 4. So two wolves currently among us.

[Nerwen]

Since I'm feeling we're so close to the end, I'm throwing caution a bit to the wind now. I am operating under the assumption that Boro was a wolf, and that makes Legate and Lalaith seem innocent to me. In this crazy game, I just want something simple to hold on to!
I know what you mean- but the "mad glee" bit in the narration for his death sounds awfully evil, though...:eek:

EDIT: x'd with Eomer.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I know what you mean- but the "mad glee" bit in the narration for his death sounds awfully evil, though...:eek:

EDIT: x'd with Eomer.

I'm hoping it was to swerve us! :D Yeah, it might be a stretch. I'll work out an alternative story now, where Boro is innocent.

[Nerwen]

Night 1, Night 3 (Boro) and Night 4. So two wolves currently among us.
Okay, I misinterpreted what you were saying. Why do you think Boro was turned Night 3? As I think I've said before, he would have been a very odd choice at that point.
Edit: x'd with Eomer.

[Nerwen]

I'm going to try and look at people.

[Lalaith]

The Goodie win condition is to eliminate all the Baddies, including the Evil Wizard.
Seriously?! :(
Also, a Wolf would still count as a Baddie so long as they were still in the Living Thread.
Yes of course, but if s/he was made a Visitor Who Leaves then

The Visitor who Leaves is sent by the Good Wizard IMMEDIATELY to the Dead Thread. according to the Rules

So wouldn't that eliminate a wolf from the Living thread?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

If Boro is innocent, and there can't be 3 wolves just now, that would mean that the EW was thwarted on both Nights 4 and 5. It would suggest that the GW is not being thwarted, but then we would surely have seen the Visitor who leaves by now; and I just don't take that from the narration hints thus far.

All right, I really want to hear other people's interpretation of the nightly noises now, and the possible scenarios they think might have happened.

[Lalaith]

Can't believe I'm sitting here chuntering on about something that probably hasn't or couldn't happen anyway when I'm so RL busy but anyway, given that Visitors are effectively the GW eliminating a villager from someone's side, might it better for him/her to try to send a wolf into the Dead Thread rather than sacrifice one of his/her own?

Although the price would be that the wolf Visitor would of course then cause a bit of chaos in the Dead Thread...and tell lies when they came back....whatever. I'll shut up now.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Okay, I misinterpreted what you were saying. Why do you think Boro was turned Night 3? As I think I've said before, he would have been a very odd choice at that point.
Edit: x'd with Eomer.

Or a brilliant choice, as some of us were speculating the last couple days. I think you and I both were hesitating putting him on the lynch-list just because we thought he'd been acting strangely. He could have rode that doubt until the end of the game. Even yesterday he was pushed to the front of the queue quite late.

Of course, maybe he was turned on Night 1; but I can't really imagine this squares with his Day 1 behaviour.

[Kuruharan]

So wouldn't that eliminate a wolf from the Living thread?

Yes, that is correct regarding the Visitor who Leaves.

I was referring to the scenario where the Visitor who Dies is a Wolf and would still remain in the Living Thread and count toward the Evil victory total until death.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Nerwen]

First up- Brinniel

Day One

#16. (answering Zil) Believes the EW would start creating wolves early. Is against the no-lynch plan.

#78. (answering Lalaith) Is confused by the Dead Thread concept, as she has never played in a game with one. Believes setting up communication with the Dead is a goid idea

#112. Votes Lottie (Lottie #4 but the post is marked as having crossed with others). Reason for vote is that Lottie had "worked hard to be helpful, which could go sour for us if she's evil" and that even if innocent "her helpfulness will be good for us in the Dead Thread."

Comment: the rest is fine, but that's a pretty awful reason for even a Day One vote. However, she was not the only one to make a vote like that.

Day Two

#127. Speculates on whether Morsul was killed as a suspected gifted. Believes that Boro's self-vote is a sign of innocence, but that he may have been turned Night 2 for just that reason.

#128. (Answering Sally). Explains no-one was lynched because there was a tie. Thinks period near DL needs examination.

#151. (Answering Zil) Is not sure if the wolves would be told if they targeted a Ranger-protected GW. (Answering Eomer) Thanks it very unlikely Morsul was actually a sacrificial wolf.

#270. Complains we post too much.

#291. Says Dead Thread discussion should be left until next Day. Thinks a baddie could hide behind it. Thinks Eonwe, like Boro, would have made a good Night Two wolf-pick, but does not find either suspicious enough to vote for. Is "concerned" by spat between me and Zil, which she describes as me "pulling this idea out of hat and letting the rest of the village run with it." Believes a baddie is "hiding" among the Day One no-lynch advocates, and favours Lottie in this role.

#292. Would like to vote for me, but doesn't want to "spread the vote too thin".

#295. Answering Boro, who points out that there us already a vote for me, says "So there is. I must have missed that."

#297. Votes for me (Nerwen #2).

#309. Reminds Pervinca to format her vote correctly.

Comments: Nothing very strong here, but there is perhaps a certain opportunism about her suspicions, and the repeated reminder to suspect helpful people is... well it becomes a theme.

Edit: x'd since my last post.

[Brinniel]

Oh and btw we should make a list for the Dead to vote on. Like:

BORO PREY
Nerwen
Shastanis Althreduin
satansaloser2005

BORO PREDATOR
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc

NONE OF THE ABOVE
Eönwë
Brinniel

(or upside-down, if we want to change the order again, or what have you)
Is this the same list from yesterDay (minus the dead)? If so, do we want to use the same list every Day or mix it up a bit?

If Boro is innocent, that last minute bandwagon on him is rather concerning. If he's evil, those that voted him look a lot better (with the exception of Legate who, regardless of alignment, could've been voting to save himself). So if Boro was a wolf, I wonder if that could've been a reason why Nogrod was killed. Though the baddies know we wouldn't know Boro's role til toMorrow, so I'm not sure about that...

I agree something strange has been happening for several Nights now. I'm currently sneaking on at work, so I really don't have the time to place further thought on it though. I'll be around a bit for the last hour before deadline or so, though by then we should probably be more focused on lynch choices than Night theories.

[Nerwen]

If Boro is innocent, and there can't be 3 wolves just now, that would mean that the EW was thwarted on both Nights 4 and 5. It would suggest that the GW is not being thwarted, but then we would surely have seen the Visitor who leaves by now; and I just don't take that from the narration hints thus far.

All right, I really want to hear other people's interpretation of the nightly noises now, and the possible scenarios they think might have happened.
What if they've been picking the same targets?

Edit: x'd with Brinn

[Lalaith]

Another quick question as I need to be away for a few hours...I too noticed Kuru's promise of an interesting day and wondered if there were a Duel in the offing. If there is a Duel, will there also be a lynching?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Is this the same list from yesterDay (minus the dead)? If so, do we want to use the same list every Day or mix it up a bit?


Right, I just copied it from the narration. Okay, if we wanted to do it backwards, it would be like this:

BORO PREY
Brinniel
Eönwë
Legate of Amon Lanc

BORO PREDATOR
Lalaith
Eomer of the Rohirrim
satansaloser2005

NONE OF THE ABOVE
Shastanis Althreduin
Nerwen

Would everyone agree on that one?


Another quick question as I need to be away for a few hours...I too noticed Kuru's promise of an interesting day and wondered if there were a Duel in the offing. If there is a Duel, will there also be a lynching?

I think so.

Anyway, I am just popping in and I have to go again, but should be around properly in an hour or a bit more.

[Kuruharan]

Another quick question as I need to be away for a few hours...I too noticed Kuru's promise of an interesting day and wondered if there were a Duel in the offing. If there is a Duel, will there also be a lynching?

Having a duel wouldn't impact the occurrence of a lynch. Only the players in the Living Thread having a tie would do that.

(Idea for the next game: having a ++No Lynch option for a vote. I wonder how that would work out...)

[Nerwen]

Brinn, Day Three

#332.
Discusses Eonwe's Dead Thread communication plan; not sure if it is feasible.

#333.
"Not quite as concerned" as Sally re: spreading of early votes on previous Day, but is concerned by bandwaggon votes for Zil.

#337. Further discussion Dead Thread plan with Eonwe.. Agrees it should have been settled earlier, and partly blames herself. Will be out most of the Day.

#452. Looks at Inzil voters. Lottie's vote is "less suspicious" because it was his defensiveness rather than the slip itself, but still has some suspicion of her because of "the same reason I voted her on Day 1". One... [Note: but those reasons were being *too* helpful with the no-lynch plan, thus a possible "nice" wolf, and being a potentially useful deadie. Hardly sufficient for a Day 3 vote.]. Eonwe's vote is "bandwaggoning". My vote is suspicious because of my "eagerness" to jump on Zil's slip, and would apparently be evil regardless of his actual role. [Note.: I believe this quite a misrepresentation of what occurred]. Boro's vote is also a "bandwaggon" and she mentions again that he might have been turned Night Two for looking too innocent. [Note: not if my theory on narration is correct.

Goes on to say that she thinks those who focussed more on the Dead Thread might also be suspicious. Nogrod talks too much about the Dead Thread and is "chaotic". Eonwe on the other hand, serms genuinely helpful, which is "scary" as it "makes him a good candidate for wolf conversion". Also felt that he drew focus from that Day's lynch. Legate has suddenly started focussing on the Dead Thread, which could point to a newly-turned wolf.

Comments: Okay, this is looking pretty suss. "Suspect the helpful" theme continues...

#461. Votes Eonwe because "I found him concerning on both lists I just made". Which is to say, being too helpful plus voting someone of then-unknown role.

Comments: Those last two posts look rather bad actually...

Edit: x'd since my last

[Nerwen]

I have to go now- will try and finish this later.

[Nerwen]

And I will also try and look at Sally, and anyone else I can- but have just run out of time now.

[Eönwë]

RL has really gotten in the way of my participation toDay. Catching up now; should be around until the deadline.

[Brinniel]

"Suspect the helpful" theme continues...
I think your getting this from a post I made yesterDay. To clarify, I said it's a bad idea to write someone off as innocent because they're being helpful as it can be a classic wolf tactic. That isn't to say it's always the case or that someone can't be both helpful and innocent.

Anyway, I have yet to vote for anyone for the sole reason of looking too helpful as I agree that really isn't a good reason on its own.

#461. Votes Eonwe because "I found him concerning on both lists I just made". Which is to say, being too helpful plus voting someone of then-unknown role.
I voted for Eonwe because a) his bandwagon vote looked opportunistic to me and b) I found his focus on the Dead Thread and other game play rules/technicalities to be distracting and I could see a baddie doing this to draw focus away from who to lynch. Not because he was being too helpful.

I referred to my previous post when voting as I had run out of time to write more, but I apologize if my reasons weren't clear at the time. Though, this is the second time I've had to clarify my vote to you so I don't understand why you keep misrepresenting it.

[Eönwë]

Summarising things to have them all in one place:


Day 1
Lommy -> Boro
Lalaith -> Nerwen
Morsul -> Lottie
Mith -> Lottie 2
Zil -> Nerwen 2
Legate -> Boro 2
Shasta -> Lottie 3
Lottie -> Boro 3
Brinn -> Lottie 4
Boro -> Boro 4

No lynch


Day 2
Zil -> Nerwen
Lommy -> Eonwe
Eomer -> Lottie
Lalaith -> Eomer
Legate -> Boro
Mith -> Zil
Nogrod -> Eonwe 2
Brinn -> Nerwen 2
Pervinca -> Zil 2
Nerwen -> Zil 3
Lottie -> Zil 4
Boro -> Zil 5
Eonwe -> Zil 6

Zil lynched


Day 3
Eomer -> Lottie
Sally -> Lottie 2
Lalaith -> Lottie 3
Brinniel -> Eonwe
Legate -> Boro
Lottie -> Boro 2
Nerwen -> Nog
Eonwe -> Nog 2
Shasta -> Legate
* Nog -> Eonwe [After deadline; did not count]

Lottie lynched


Day 4
Eönwe -> Nogrod
Nerwen -> Nogrod 2
Boro -> Legate
Shasta -> Legate 2
Nogrod -> Boro
Eomer -> Boro 2
Legate -> Boro 3
Lalaith -> Boro 4
Brinn -> Eonwe

Boro lynched

[Eönwë]

To use Kuru's most recent list:

Living
Nerwen
Shastanis Althreduin
satansaloser2005
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Eönwë
Brinniel

The Dead
Morsul the Dark (presumed innocent)
Inziladun (innocent according to DT communication)
Thinlómien (presumed innocent)
Loslote (innocent according to DT communication)
Mithalwen (presumed innocent)
Boromir88 (?)
Nogrod (?)

Escaped
Pervinca Took (Known innocent)


edit: bolding

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Y'all, I'm sporadically here, but it doesn't look like I'm going to get too much done in the way of big long analysis posts. Sorry to keep harping on RL issues like this.

I will get some thoughts out, though, so people can see where I stand.

I think it likely that Sally and Legate are both evil. Sally is a tonal read for me - she isn't being as happy-go-lucky and helpful as she usually is when she's an innocent. Legate is murkier for me, but I've voted him two days in a row and it's gotten very little traction both days - it makes me think he's being saved by his evil partners. In fact, the only person to actually vote Legate with me has been Boro - and I think Boro was probably an ordo like he claimed, he was sounding like an innocent to me before he died. I'm not really sure where that bandwagon came from.

Brinniel is hard for me to read because she seems very helpful, but I think I'm being swayed fairly hard by Nerwen's analysis of her. I'd like to try and develop my own read on her, but I'm putting her in the orange category for now.

Eonwe has focused on the dead thread quite a bit this game and I can't recall whom he actually suspects as being evil. Lalaith is another person who's been around - I can recall her posting, a fair amount actually! - but I'm not sure who she suspects either.

Nerwen I've read as fairly consistently innocent throughout the game and nothing has really changed for me there. I need to reread some of her arguments and make sure I'm not just being blinded by her helpfulness, but I lean good on her.

Eomer I also lean fairly good on (whaaaaaat?). I was leaning good-er, but his posts today about how Boro was likely a wolf threw me a bit, as that's not what I was thinking about Boro at all, so I may need to re-evaluate.

--------------------

Summation - I would vote Legate or Sally - maybe Brinniel - toDay.

[Brinniel]

Both of my top suspects from yesterDay are still alive.

I'm not as sure toDay about Eonwe. Mainly because he's been so quiet the last two Days (due to RL commitments as I understand), so I'd like to hear more from him.

I'm still feeling just as uneasy about Legate as I did yesterDay, so I should probably look at him some more.

There are other players I should take a look too, but that will need to wait another hour or so when I get home.

[Nerwen]

I think your getting this from a post I made yesterDay. To clarify, I said it's a bad idea to write someone off as innocent because they're being helpful as it can be a classic wolf tactic. That isn't to say it's always the case or that someone can't be both helpful and innocent.

Anyway, I have yet to vote for anyone for the sole reason of looking too helpful as I agree that really isn't a good reason on its own.


I voted for Eonwe because a) his bandwagon vote looked opportunistic to me and b) I found his focus on the Dead Thread and other game play rules/technicalities to be distracting and I could see a baddie doing this to draw focus away from who to lynch. Not because he was being too helpful.

I referred to my previous post when voting as I had run out of time to write more, but I apologize if my reasons weren't clear at the time. Though, this is the second time I've had to clarify my vote to you so I don't understand why you keep misrepresenting it.
Back again briefly- no, I don't think I'm misrepresenting you. Certainly not deliberately- I've been looking at what you actually say in those posts and interpreting it as best I can. Maybe you meant something different by it- who knows? I felt there was a certain house-of-cards logic to some of your suspicions, to which I wanted to draw attention.

Brinn, Day Four

#496. Is not surprised by Mith's death as seems a no-trace kill.

#498. (Answering me, as I expressed surprise at a no-trace kill so late in the game) Thinks wolves were afraid of hunter/ranger, or afraid of the repercussions of killing off players who suspected them.

#499. Analyses Legate. Finds him more suspicious than previously, but no longer thinks he is a newly-turned wolf. Is also suspicious of Nog, Eonwe, me and Boro.

#544. Doesn't think Nogrod had an excuse for voting late; criticises him for wasting time with distracting subjects. Finds him suspicious, but also worried he would be an easy lynch target if innocent.

Comment: Can't argue with this, as it was exactly my reaction.

#561. (Answering Lalaith) Thinks Sally, not Shasta is the biggest submarine.

#566. "My top suspects for lynching are Legate and Eonwe. Legate for reasons I stated earlier toDay and my opinion of Eonwe has not changed since yesterDay.

Nogrod is another I'm still considering, but I'm feeling slightly hesitant about him."

Comment: See, once again I don't like that "my opinion has not changed since yesterDay", given the original reason was so flimsy- and people might not bother to check- leading perhaps to an impression of there being a stronger case against him than there actually is. (Of course Zil pulled the same thing on me and turned out to be innocent, so there's that...)

#580. Votes Eonwe. (Eonwe 2, Nog 2, Legate 2, Boro 4). The vote is consistent with her earlier suspicions. Tells us nothing either way. It would point to innocence if Boro turns out a wolf- however, I strongly doubt this is the case.

Comments: Hard to say. Much of her posting seems sensible and innocent but there are some definite wolfy indications as well. Hmmn.

[Nerwen]

Y'all, I'm sporadically here, but it doesn't look like I'm going to get too much done in the way of big long analysis posts. Sorry to keep harping on RL issues like this.

I will get some thoughts out, though, so people can see where I stand.

I think it likely that Sally and Legate are both evil. Sally is a tonal read for me - she isn't being as happy-go-lucky and helpful as she usually is when she's an innocent. Legate is murkier for me, but I've voted him two days in a row and it's gotten very little traction both days - it makes me think he's being saved by his evil partners. In fact, the only person to actually vote Legate with me has been Boro - and I think Boro was probably an ordo like he claimed, he was sounding like an innocent to me before he died. I'm not really sure where that bandwagon came from.

Brinniel is hard for me to read because she seems very helpful, but I think I'm being swayed fairly hard by Nerwen's analysis of her. I'd like to try and develop my own read on her, but I'm putting her in the orange category for now.

Eonwe has focused on the dead thread quite a bit this game and I can't recall whom he actually suspects as being evil. Lalaith is another person who's been around - I can recall her posting, a fair amount actually! - but I'm not sure who she suspects either.

Nerwen I've read as fairly consistently innocent throughout the game and nothing has really changed for me there. I need to reread some of her arguments and make sure I'm not just being blinded by her helpfulness, but I lean good on her.

Eomer I also lean fairly good on (whaaaaaat?). I was leaning good-er, but his posts today about how Boro was likely a wolf threw me a bit, as that's not what I was thinking about Boro at all, so I may need to re-evaluate.

--------------------

Summation - I would vote Legate or Sally - maybe Brinniel - toDay.

What he said, basically.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right, I have spent some time trying to go through peoples' posts and all and it's awfully exhausting.

All the knowledge combined with this question: who would be the most logical member of a Wolf pack, taking into account all that has happened?

Eönwë has been helpful since the beginning, and I would imagine that either he would have been turned at some point, or killed (which he obviously wasn't), or then he's been something since the very beginning (an EW or a Wolf turned on Night 1). I think at least on Day 1 he really looked just helpful. If he had been turned, he could easily just have continued doing that in the same track. What drew my eyes to him the most was his super-safe spot in the Inzil bandwagon, though.

Sally has been like the biggest submarine from the start, and she tends to be. She would be quite a logical pick for a Wolf. One thing is, her behavior has been mostly consistent, so at least I would rather imagine her as one from the start rather than one turned at some point (then again, it isn't very difficult to be consistent as a submarine. But I mean there are nuances as to how you act towards people at those rare occassions when you do).

Nerwen would be a person I could easily imagine being picked by the EW in the sense that she can hide her nature well; thing is, she has been pretty much consistent and sort of in the background - like I said, many of her posts especially at start actually were helpful (clarifying rules etc) without actual commitment. So if she was a Wolf, I would think she would be one rather from the beginning, or then simply the EW.

Brinniel has been quieter in the beginning, then kind of became more involved as the game went on. Could that signify a role shift? She also could be a clever Wolf with staying on the edge of the discussion without attracting too much attention. Sort of floating in the middle.

Eomer has been also floating by without attracting the attention or controversy he usually does. I actually haven't thought about this before at all. ToDay, he has also spent practically the whole Day bringing the debate back to theoretical questions about the Nightly events, which, while objectively interesting, don't really specifically lead us anywhere in terms of deciding the lynch. Still, objectively, I don't think I would write him down for a vote.

Lalaith was most of the time sounding quite genuine, of course she could be just a Wolf buttering up people. But she is about the only player I feel fairly comfortable about at the moment.

Shasta... has been a horrible submarine (thanks to RL, I gather, however), at least in the beginning, then he has had this one-mind track about pursuing me during the last few Days. That is actually also interesting, could it be a shift after he has been turned into a Wolf? In any case, I really can't tell what I am thinking of him.

Basically, the problem is that really we don't have any info at all. Like what is one supposed to make of that.

I need to think and it is sorta frustrating. Nerwen or Eönwë are probably on top of my list, but seriously, it can be anyone.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I'm a bit surprised that more people aren't wrestling with these numbers. We've had all game to speculate on 'so-and-so feels wolfy to me'; but now there's possibly essential info for us to work with. We've not come across a single wolf all game - we've been shooting in the dark!

But today, we know for certain that the EW is not at maximum wolfage. Either Boro was innocent, in which case we need to work out possible night scenarios - all of which seem less likely to me, given that they're based on so much bad luck for the EW.

Or Boro was guilty, which I find more likely, and which probably cuts our lynch candidates almost by half.

All right, time to focus more closely on my top lynch suspects.

[Lalaith]

Apologies, I'm now back but I've had a hectic evening, it's late where I am and I will need to go to bed soon. The interesting Day that Kuru promised us hasn't yet materialised in the way I'd imagined...I had hoped to hold off my vote til closer to DL but I'm just too tired.

For various reasons ( barring any startling revelations) I am inclining to vote for Eonwe today. Sorry I haven't had time to do a point by point analysis on this one, but my suspicion is down to a plethora of small things rather than one big one...eg the helpful list at the start feeling slightly less helpful with the 'small portions' policy.

Then there's Nerwen - after my initial doubts on Day One I started to feel ok with her but there's this loyalty to Eonwe which puzzles me - any true innocent should probably just be feeling a bit paranoid about everyone (that's certainly how I'm feeling)
Eomer:
We've not come across a single wolf all game - we've been shooting in the dark!
How do you know Boro wasn't a wolf?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Gotta say, reading back through all days and I'm in great danger of becoming set in my ways. Today has reinforced my suspicions from yesterday. There's something drawing me to Eonwe's side over Brinniel. Shasta and Sally to make up the evil team.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Ok, I have been pretty much mentally exhausted during the last few hours and I also feel tired. I might really want to vote and go to sleep sooner rather than later. And it is late here already.

Or Boro was guilty, which I find more likely, and which probably cuts our lynch candidates almost by half.
It is true that both Nerwen and/or Eönwë being Wolves would make sense in that paradigm (if just looking at last two Days' worth of votes).

EDIT: x-ed with Lalaith and Eomer

[Eönwë]

I'm leaning away from Nog being the visitor, simply because I would have expected a Ranger save to be more strongly hinted at. This would mean it's the GW who keeps getting thwarted, because we haven't seen the visitor yet, suggesting that Boro was indeed a wolf and that it was the GW plus gifted who were happy that Boro was on the chopping block.
Are you including the Ranger blocking a pick as a Ranger save? Or do you just mean from a kill? Because if the former is the case, then if you're right, we have to assume that the thwarting is in the form of the pickee already being converted by the other side, in which case it seems more likely that it is the EW being blocked. The GW only has two picks that are blockable in such a way, and I imagine that the Ranger was probably assigned on N1 (I mean, I know that's what I would do as the GW), so it's really only a Hunter pick that could be so blocked. Given that we're still alive, we know the EW only has a maximum of two wolves, and therefore (unless both Boro and Nog are wolves, in which case the Ranger assumption is wrong) would have had at least one pick left last Night, which I imagine they would use ASAP as the size of the village decreases and therefore the Wizards' Duel draws nearer.


This is all pretty worrying because it means that if the evil side does have 2 wolves, we need to vote correctly toDay to not lose the game.


edit:x-posted with a few

[Eönwë]

On reread, it also turns out that by borrowing Nog's list here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=708128&postcount=584), I missed out a vote, and also forgot to include the empowerment. So here is a corrected post.



Day 1
Lommy -> Boro
Lalaith -> Nerwen
Morsul -> Lottie
Mith -> Lottie 2
Zil -> Nerwen 2
Legate -> Boro 2
Shasta -> Lottie 3
Lottie -> Boro 3
Brinn -> Lottie 4
Boro -> Boro 4

No lynch


Day 2
Zil -> Nerwen
Lommy -> Eonwe
Eomer -> Lottie
Lalaith -> Eomer
Legate -> Boro
Mith -> Zil
Nogrod -> Eonwe 2
Brinn -> Nerwen 2
Pervinca -> Zil 2
Nerwen -> Zil 3
Lottie -> Zil 4
Boro -> Zil 5
Eonwe -> Zil 6

Zil lynched


Day 3
Eomer -> Lottie
Sally -> Lottie 2
Lalaith -> Lottie 3
Brinniel -> Eonwe [+1, empowered]
Legate -> Boro
Lottie -> Boro 2
Nerwen -> Nog
Eonwe -> Nog 2
Shasta -> Legate
* Nog -> Eonwe [After deadline; did not count]

Lottie lynched


Day 4
Eönwe -> Nog
Nerwen -> Nog 2
Boro -> Legate
Shasta -> Legate 2 [+1, empowered]
Sally -> Eonwe
Nog -> Boro
Eomer -> Boro 2
Legate -> Boro 3
Lalaith -> Boro 4
Brinn -> Eonwe

Boro lynched



Ok, definitely time to put my thoughts down about people. There's just been so much to think about.

[Eönwë]

How do you know Boro wasn't a wolf?
Hm, that may be a good catch.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Lal, that's all I've been posting about today! The permutations of that possibility. Including in the post you quoted from.

[Brinniel]

Sally has texted me and requested that I report to the village that she's had some trouble getting online, but she should be around shortly.

[Lalaith]

The permutations of that possibility. Including in the post you quoted from.
I know, I'm not trying to frame you. I just don't understand the logic of what you said.
Speaking of framing...I have a feeling that Nerwen is trying set Brinn up.This could just be because I don't find Brinn particularly suspicious myself.

[Nerwen]

Apologies, I'm now back but I've had a hectic evening, it's late where I am and I will need to go to bed soon. The interesting Day that Kuru promised us hasn't yet materialised in the way I'd imagined...I had hoped to hold off my vote til closer to DL but I'm just too tired.

For various reasons ( barring any startling revelations) I am inclining to vote for Eonwe today. Sorry I haven't had time to do a point by point analysis on this one, but my suspicion is down to a plethora of small things rather than one big one...eg the helpful list at the start feeling slightly less helpful with the 'small portions' policy.

Then there's Nerwen - after my initial doubts on Day One I started to feel ok with her but there's this loyalty to Eonwe which puzzles me - any true innocent should probably just be feeling a bit paranoid about everyone (that's certainly how I'm feeling)
Eomer:

How do you know Boro wasn't a wolf?
He's pretty clearly doing it as a hypothetical.

As for why I'm loyal to Eonwe- perhaps he just doesn't strike me as guilty. However, there is more than one way to be an "innocent" in this game- I'm surprised that doesn't seem to factor into anyone's calculations, actually.

[Nerwen]

I know, I'm not trying to frame you. I just don't understand the logic of what you said.
Speaking of framing...I have a feeling that Nerwen is trying set Brinn up.This could just be because I don't find Brinn particularly suspicious myself.
No I'm not. Just an honest analysis, trying to puzzle her out.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Lal, I'm happy to explain anything that you think is unclear in my post. I'm saying, we haven't encountered a single wolf all game. Now, in previous days, (when we were waiting on info about Zil and Loslote) that still doesn't tell us much, because a million things might have happened, so speculating on their roles at those times wouldn't really have got us anywhere. However, today when we can see for sure that there are not 3 wolves, then our explanations for what has happened are more limited; and we can now openly, and productively, speculate on Boro's role before we get info from the Dead Thread.

What are you suggesting, Nerwen?

[Eönwë]

Or Boro was guilty, which I find more likely, and which probably cuts our lynch candidates almost by half.
Nice way to get yourself off the hook toDay, eh?

[Nerwen]

Lal, I'm happy to explain anything that you think is unclear in my post. I'm saying, we haven't encountered a single wolf all game. Now, in previous days, (when we were waiting on info about Zil and Loslote) that still doesn't tell us much, because a million things might have happened, so speculating on their roles at those times wouldn't really have got us anywhere. However, today when we can see for sure that there are not 3 wolves, then our explanations for what has happened are more limited; and we can now openly, and productively, speculate on Boro's role before we get info from the Dead Thread.

What are you suggesting, Nerwen?
l am suggesting that I know some things about people's roles. I don't want to reveal what my own is exactly, but suffice it to say that I have been told that Boro was, and Eonwe is, innocent. That is all for now.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Brinniel suspecting Legate gives me pause. Hmm.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Brinniel suspecting Legate gives me pause. Hmm.



To clarify, I still think Legate is evil but I'm wondering about Brinniel now.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Half an hour before deadline... :rolleyes:

Ok, back to have another look.

[Lalaith]

The Good Wizard may send messages via the Mod to the Gifteds. The Good Wizard may not share their own identity or the identity of the other Gifteds. If they wanted me to do that I would just not include that part of the message.

The rules

[Lalaith]

I'm not trying to out anyone. I just want to go to bed. *whimper*

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

l am suggesting that I know some things about people's roles. I don't want to reveal what my own is exactly, but suffice it to say that I have been told that Boro was, and Eonwe is, innocent. That is all for now.

Ugh, nice to start saying things like this at this moment. It certainly does not help that I have been suspicious about Nerwen, because how should one then take that word - I can see Wolves trying to make some pulls like that especially if it looks like they could be threatened. Now what is one to trust here?

EDIT: x-ed with two Shastas, Eomer, and two Lals

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'm not trying to out anyone. I just want to go to bed. *whimper*

More of us were ready to do that, and then I come back to this.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

++Legate

I haven't seen anything to change my mind, and the fact that the Dead thread chose me to empower yesterday just adds to my conviction.

[Lalaith]

Ok Nerwen. I think this is the end game here. I want to go to bed and I'm going to vote for Eonwe unless you give me a better reason not to.

[Nerwen]

Ok Nerwen. I think this is the end game here. I want to go to bed and I'm going to vote for Eonwe unless you give me a better reason not to.
A better reason than me telling you I'm a gifted who has been told his role? Really?

[Eönwë]

l am suggesting that I know some things about people's roles. I don't want to reveal what my own is exactly, but suffice it to say that I have been told that Boro was, and Eonwe is, innocent. That is all for now.

If you're telling the truth, I think we might want to consider a Legate-Eomer wolf(/EW)-pack, given the support they've been giving each other toDay, without actually sharing too many direct suspicions.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

First of all, just want to say that I love werewolf. :D

Second, this is just so massively, massively suspicious. The wrong lynch today very possibly costs the game.

But Nerwen knows this looks suspicious.

So, the EW has been thwarted 3 times? Right?

[Brinniel]

Some more thoughts....

If Boro is innocent that sudden bandwagon against him is troublesome, and I'd want to take a closer look Lalaith and Eomer who have pretty flown under my radar. If he turns out to be guilty however, I would say both of them look pretty innocentish. I mean, why set up a last minute lynch for a wolfish Boro when there were other lynch candidates to consider?

I don't think Legate's vote yesterDay tells us as much since he was next in line on the lynching block and his vote could have been made out of self-preservation. He did vote for Boro on all other Days, so Boro's guilt might make him look a bit better. Hounding on a fellow wolf throughout the entire game would be quite the risk, though not impossible. His opinions are still pretty non-committal, so without knowing Boro's identity, my feelings about him haven't really changed.

When Nerwen suspects someone, she is quite aggressive about it. I don't know, perhaps that is just her playing style. But I don't like how she is manipulating my past posts. When doing a post-by-post analysis of someone, it would be better if you used actual quotes or links rather than rephrasing what's been said.

Sally does also worry me some. She is quite a submarine in that she hasn't posted a lot of substance. Just enough to be an active participant without really being noticed.

I feel better about Shasta because as I said before, while his post count is low, his posts seem more substantial and feel more sensible to me.

Eonwe is around, but so far he has only been posting lists and such...nothing of real substance.

EDIT: X-ed with a bunch of posts...um, what going on here?

[Nerwen]

Anyway, I think I will trust my jewel's judgement- plus I don't want to split votes, given the push to lynch someone I know to be innocent:

++Legate

Edit: x'd since my last post.

[Lalaith]

Nerwen, the rules clearly say you wouldn't be told anyone elses role as a gifted.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Lal, the GW could have informed gifted Nerwen about known innocents.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, seriously. Now depending how many Wolves we have - which I would assume would be one or two - we anyway should make sure we get the voting right, I mean, if we get the voting wrong, it doesn't really matter.

If Nerwen is a Wolf and trying to go all-out with some scheme, I totally am not going to let that happen on my watch.

[Nerwen]

Some more thoughts....

If Boro is innocent that sudden bandwagon against him is troublesome, and I'd want to take a closer look Lalaith and Eomer who have pretty flown under my radar. If he turns out to be guilty however, I would say both of them look pretty innocentish. I mean, why set up a last minute lynch for a wolfish Boro when there were other lynch candidates to consider?

I don't think Legate's vote yesterDay tells us as much since he was next in line on the lynching block and his vote could have been made out of self-preservation. He did vote for Boro on all other Days, so Boro's guilt might make him look a bit better. Hounding on a fellow wolf throughout the entire game would be quite the risk, though not impossible. His opinions are still pretty non-committal, so without knowing Boro's identity, my feelings about him haven't really changed.

When Nerwen suspects someone, she is quite aggressive about it. I don't know, perhaps that is just her playing style. But I don't like how she is manipulating my past posts. When doing a post-by-post analysis of someone, it would be better if you used actual quotes or links rather than rephrasing what's been said.
Fair enough, but I'm doing this on a mobile device. I can only assure you that I have not been intentionally manipulating your posts. You're an enigma I'm trying to puzzle out.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Lal, the GW could have informed gifted Nerwen about known innocents.

Well if that isn't the same kind of thing tho. I mean the replies are supposed to be roleplayed, they are conveyed. One would assume them to be filtered, otherwise it would not make much sense to have that rule in the first place.

Okay. It's basically about deciding. Everything now becomes sort of clearly black-or-white, and given all the previous evidence, I don't really trust Nerwen.

EDIT: x-ed with Nerwen

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

The only thing keeping me back on this is Nerwen's timezone, which can explain why this is happening now.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

And anyway since I have two votes, it doesn't really matter. Because if I get lynched, then I *know* we are losing an innocent. Okay. So.

EDIT: x-ed with Eomer

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm beginning to wonder about Lal now. I don't think we should split the vote today, but her insistence on wanting to vote Eonwe is weird to me.

[satansaloser2005]

AT LAST! THE LOAD IS COMPLETE AGAIN.

I tried to post a few times throughout the day, but the wireless at work was being fickle and it appears it didn't work. Give me a few minutes (if that) to catch up properly.

As an aside, my vote from yesterDay keeps getting left out of the vote tallies. :rolleyes:

EDIT: Disregard the last, as it was fixed and I didn't notice.

[Nerwen]

Lal, the GW could have informed gifted Nerwen about known innocents.
Bingo.

Unfortunately I don't know Legate's role- I have had some suspicion of him, but mainly I'm voting him mainly because he's had one vote and isn't Eonwe.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

If there's no lynch today, and a kill at night, and the last wolf created, we lose. Is EW Nerwen trying to get us to attempt a lynch on her?

[Lalaith]

I had assumed from reading the rules that the GW was only allowed to discuss strategy with Gifteds. I thought no naming of names was allowed. I may well have assumed wrong. Kuru please advise?

[Nerwen]

I'm beginning to wonder about Lal now. I don't think we should split the vote today, but her insistence on wanting to vote Eonwe is weird to me.
Yes. I've tended to trust her, but as you say it's getting a bit weird.

Edit: x'd since my last.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

It is in any case obvious that either Nerwen is now protecting Eonwe, or I don't know what. Eonwe, what do you have to say about all this, by the way?

EDIT: x-ing with everyone

[Lalaith]

I'm not being weird, I'm being tired.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I'm going for best of both worlds here; don't vote Eonwe, don't vote Nerwen. If she's telling the truth, or lying, there's another 2 wolves out there.

[satansaloser2005]

My mental light bulb seems to have a short. Why is Nerwen suddenly such a topic of murderous conversation? This is madness, yes, but an evil Nerwen would have no reason to draw such attention to herself at this moment.

With Nog gone, I'm strongly leaning toward Legate being my top suspect, but look for that to possibly change? We'll see. I'm still catching up and trying to go back and piece some things together. I'm really quite bitter my posts kept getting eaten today. *grump*


x'd with a host

[Nerwen]

I had assumed from reading the rules that the GW was only allowed to discuss strategy with Gifteds. I thought no naming of names was allowed. I may well have assumed wrong. Kuru please advise?
You assumed wrong. The GW can't identify gifteds to each other, but can give other information, including "x is innocent".

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

If there's no lynch today, and a kill at night, and the last wolf created, we lose. Is EW Nerwen trying to get us to attempt a lynch on her?

Not that on top of everything.

Ok. I want to hear from Eönwë what he has to say for himself.

Then - heck. I could vote for Nerwen. Or I could vote for Eönwë, but I want to hear from him first, because if Nerwen is pulling some super-complicated scheme and dragging innocent Eönwë into something...

But really, this is getting so muddled up that I could just vote also Eönwë because it is anyway possible he is a Wolf as well. I mean objectively he was even more suspicious than her. So maybe it is EW Nerwen trying to save a Wolf of hers?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

My mental light bulb seems to have a short. Why is Nerwen suddenly such a topic of murderous conversation? This is madness, yes, but an evil Nerwen would have no reason to draw such attention to herself at this moment.

Unless she was an EW protecting a Wolf? Or a Wolf anyway; if the WWs are close to win, it doesn't really matter there.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

2 votes for Legate, and Sally wants to add to that.

[Kuruharan]

Same rule as before.

Votes after my deadline post will not count.

[Eönwë]

Ok, it looks like we're heading to true endgame. In which case, I see no reason to not believe Nerwen unless someone else claims otherwise.

While I've suspected Brinniel for a while (and maybe my judgement was clouded because she's suspected me so heavily), she's seemed pretty genuine toDay, so I'm not inclined to vote her. I'm also more suspicious of others (see below), and I don't particularly see any evidence of her being in a wolf-pack with them.

Shasta is eternally a mystery to me, but toDay he seems better than he has so far. I'm willing to accept that his submarineishness so far has been due to RL reasons as he claims, and he hasn't done anything particularly suspicious so far, so he gets a pass from me for toDay


So, basically, it's down to Legate, Eomer, Sally and Lalaith.

[Nerwen]

2 votes for Legate, and Sally wants to add to that.
And I don't know why, because I don't know what either of them are.

[Brinniel]

If there's no lynch today, and a kill at night, and the last wolf created, we lose. Is EW Nerwen trying to get us to attempt a lynch on her?
That's a possibility.

Or a Nerwolf has decided to make a risky move and out herself as gifted. And hoping we'd give her benefit of the doubt, direct the lynch away from the baddies and toward an innocent. If someone is killed toNight, or a wolf turned, that would end the game as well.

[Eönwë]

Sally, while mostly absent, hasn't done anything particularly eyebrow-raising so for, so, since this might literally be the last Day, I'm going to ignore her for now.

[satansaloser2005]

Unless she was an EW protecting a Wolf? Or a Wolf anyway; if the WWs are close to win, it doesn't really matter there.

That's a fair point, but it doesn't seem very Nerwen to me.

I really feel like the Nerwen shenanigans are being blown out of proportion to detract from the actual baddies.

[Eönwë]

I really feel like the Nerwen shenanigans are being blown out of proportion to detract from the actual baddies.

Agreed. I'm inclined to believe her.

My bet is that at least 2 of Legate, Lalaith, and Eomer are evil.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Shasta has been gung ho for Legate for days, and Nerwen has jumped on that today. Those are the 2 votes so far.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Ok, no way. If I die, we are losing an innocent. So now I am totally about self-preservation.

Is there anyone most people would agree on?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well Nerwen, I really hope you're a good guy, because it looks like you have the support.

[satansaloser2005]

I've been at least mildly consistent in my suspicion of Steve, so putting aside the stuff with him and Nerwen from today, I would happily vote for him, because he had plenty of suspicion his way yesterday and then all of a sudden today things have gone nuts.

Mind, this doesn't mean Legate is off the hook. I'd be willing to bet they're both evil.

[Eönwë]

Worryingly, the Dead Thread Empowerment is really going to make a difference toDay.

[Lalaith]

What is probably going to happen is that Legate will be lynched. I'm too tired to make proper sense of this but I think the Nerwen may be lying so I would like to open up the option for an alternative.
++eonwe

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Shasta has been gung ho for Legate for days, and Nerwen has jumped on that today. Those are the 2 votes so far.

And no one else has jumped on. That ought to tell you something.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, let's hope for the best.

++Eonwe

So I hope we'll be here still toMorrow.

[Eönwë]

Well, I'd better not split the vote.

++Legate

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

++shasta

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Guh.

[Eönwë]

Also, I may be mistaken, but for future reference (assuming there is a toMorrow), I seem to remember Nog suggesting a possible Legate+Eomer wolf-team.

[satansaloser2005]

I'll assist Lal in hedging our bets. I feel pretty comfortable with either candidate, but Steve has rung alarm bells for a while longer, so best to go with my initial instincts.

++Steve


x'd since Shasta's #713

[Shastanis Althreduin]

++shasta



:rolleyes:

[Eönwë]

++shasta

Now that is interesting.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Seriously, this is a mess.

[Brinniel]

++Eonwe

[Kuruharan]

The deadline has come.

Please stop posting.

Narration to follow.

[Eönwë]

What if we end up with a draw?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Honestly...

[satansaloser2005]

WE TALKED ABOUT THIS WHAT, THREE TIMES NOW? :eek:

*headdesks* :p



x'd with Kuru

[Kuruharan]

In a rising crescendo worthy of the completely fictitious Dead Thread in that awful movie Kuru showed last time, the discussion this DAY rose to a frenzied tumult!

"I'm right!"

"No, I'm right!"

"No, I'm right!"

"I agree strictly verbatim!"

"You're all wrong including me!"

"Whut..?"

The residents seized Steve and dragged him to the guillotine, held him down and prepared to pull the lever.

































"WAIT," cried Shasta "I feel strangely empowered to make you all dance with me! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFHg0uRAyVs)"

And somehow...they did. Even those who found this most, most frustrating.

They were still dancing when darkness fell and Steve was still among them.

Living
Nerwen
Shastanis Althreduin
satansaloser2005
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Eönwë
Brinniel

The Dead
Morsul the Dark
Inziladun
Thinlómien
Loslote
Mithalwen
Boromir88
Nogrod

Escaped
Pervinca Took (Ordo)

[Kuruharan]

The guests groggily woke from their sleep with the dawn.

"What weird dreams," said Boro and Nog together.

"I agree," said Morsul.

"Even in my dreams I am absolutely awesome," said Legate.

"Humph," said Nerwen.

"Hey, we're pretty awesome toooOOOOOooo!" said Brinniel and Sally together.

"Yeah, but I'm still psychic when I'm asleep," said Shasta. "Annnd, still lived through the end of the game...for what that may or may not be worth. I'll take it!"

"At least I got to be a warg...ish type creature...at the end...by a technicality," said Eomer. "I still won, though."

"I think Kuru poisoned our food!" exclaimed Mith "Let's get him!"

"Yeah!" agreed everyone.

They charged out the door...


















...to find themselves at a cave mouth that led them to a labyrinthine system of canyons...




Not again...











The Cast

Legate of Amon Lanc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi_hcwB8i64)
Brinniel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=booKP974B0k)
satansaloser2005 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cApq15kOKA)
Eomer of the Rohirrim (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxcM3nCsglA)

Nerwen (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm3ypbAbLJ8)
Shastanis Althreduin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjPau5QYtYs)
Eönwë (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO8qCRVj8dI)

Inziladun
Loslote
Boromir88
Morsul the Dark
Thinlómien
Lalaith
Mithalwen
Nogrod
Pervinca Took

WEREWOLVES VICTORIOUS!




In honor of the werewolves victory, we will have our post game chat in this thread.

I will post a post-mortem later, but now I must dash.

Thank you everyone for playing and I hope you had fun! :)




The final NIGHT, the Good Wizard attempted to turn the Evil Wizard into a Visitor.

That didn't work.

The Evil Wizard attempted to kill the Ranger...again.

That still didn't work.

The Evil Wizard converted Eomer.

That worked.

[Inziladun]

Ach.

Congrats, EW, and you wicked minions!

I hate that I didn't get more action in the World of the Living, but as I said in the Afterlife (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=707687&postcount=47), I had to cut and run on the Day I was lynched. Baddies took advantage, naturally.

Anyway, the Dead Thread was great fun, and it was nice to have some way of staying active after I was taken out.

Thanks, Kuru. Great concept and execution (pun definitely intended).

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

No...

[Loslote]

Congrats, wolves. :o Game well played!

I had a lot of fun in the Dead thread, at least, so congrats as well to Kuru for an exciting game!

Legate, you were the EW, right? The Dead thread was so frustrated for Days that the living wouldn't just kill you already. :p And who was the GW? Why was Lal listed with the Dead? What a game. :D

[Kuruharan]

Legate, you were the EW, right? The Dead thread was so frustrated for Days that the living wouldn't just kill you already. And who was the GW?

Somebody didn't click on the links...and I went to so much trouble. :p

[Loslote]

Somebody didn't click on the links...and I went to so much trouble. :p

Haha, my bad! I got a little lazy in my death. :D I totally called Nerwen as a Wizard, though I really thought she was a Wizard of another flavor.

[Inziladun]

Haha, my bad! I got a little lazy in my death. :D I totally called Nerwen as a Wizard, though I really thought she was a Wizard of another flavor.

Same here. I had a feeling about her from the start; I just thought from the way she jumped on my 'slip' that evil was more likely.

We sure tried to help you, Shasta. Turns out Legate couldn't be lynched, but we didn't know that. ;)

[Galadriel55]

Have to say, really nice play there Nerwen!

[satansaloser2005]

No...

You're welcome. :Merisu:



I'll be back later with more, but for now, cheers to everyone on both sides!

[Nerwen]

Dammit! Well, it was worth a try. I thought Brinn was more likely to be the EW. At least we identified the correct trio of villains.:smokin:

Trouble is you cunning baddies never gave us enough concrete evidence to get you lynched on- and there was always somebody else practically screaming to be checked out at Night.

And no, Zil,I did not "jump" on you, I just poked you a bit and you overreacted. I didn't allow enough at first for how paranoid the lack of reference points was making ordos in this village.

Anyway, good game.

[Nerwen]

Oh, and the way this bloody village kept lynching/trying to lynch my known innocents! Maddening, it was.:mad:

[Mithalwen]

They did have a habit of looking fishy. Amazing how death clears the mind. Aatounded Lal wasman ordo though.

[Loslote]

Aatounded Lal wasman ordo though.

Truly, truly astounded. :eek:

[Brinniel]

*Phew*

So glad I can breathe again! Last Night was rather intense. We knew we had to finally get our wolf pick right, because by the end of Day 5, none of us were looking exactly innocent and this Night could make it or break it.

Btw, we considered turning Eomer every Night since Night 3, but until last Night, we always ended up choosing someone else instead. Next time, I'll have to remember to pick him first.

For the record, our picks were:

Night 1
Wolf pick: Brinn

Night 2
Wolf pick: Loslote - We picked her because we thought if she were lynched in the next couple Days, the village would be less likely to link her to us. But alas, the GW picked her too and our choices were canceled out.
Kill: Morsul - We figured his death wouldn't have much impact on the village and he would be better to cause some chaos in the Dead Thread.

Night 3
Wolf pick: Sally - After crossing paths with the GW the previous Night, we just really wanted a successful wolf conversion. And we figured it was unlikely she was picked by the GW or protected.
Kill: Lommy - We hoped her death would cause a little confusion and villagers may search for a trail that didn't exist. And maybe if we were lucky, she was also gifted.

Night 4
Wolf pick: Shasta - We picked him for several reasons: We thought it may be unexpected if all three submarines were wolves and hoped since he hadn't been around much, that the GW wouldn't pick him. Also, his psychic powers were starting to come into play and we figured it would be better to have him on our team. We were informed that the conversion failed, though it wasn't clear if it was because he was protected or already gifted.
Kill: Mithalwen - We decided to go with a safer kill on this Night. And generally no one seemed to suspect her.

Night 5
Wolf pick: Eonwe - After another failure, we decided to take a different strategy and go with a riskier pick rather than a safe one. Since both Sally and I were gunning against him the previous Day, should the game continue another Day, we thought as a wolf, we could throw him under the bus and look less suspicious for doing so. In previous Nights, we did avoid him thinking he was an obvious pick for the GW, but by Night 5 we hoped the GW would assume the same thing and not pick him, and it seemed highly unlikely he'd be chosen that Night. We gambled and unfortunately we were wrong. Boy, was that infuriating...
Kill: Nogrod - We killed him for the full intention of causing some chaos. Considering he could be easy lynch fodder, no one would expect a Nog death (and no way he'd be ranger protected). If we continued into the next Day, we hoped the village would be distracted by trying to figure out why he died.

[Loslote]

Night 2
Wolf pick: Loslote - We picked her because we thought if she were lynched in the next couple Days, the village would be less likely to link her to us. But alas, the GW picked her too and our choices were canceled out.

Haha! I assume the GW picked me as a hunter or a visitor? Yeah, the number one thing that I can consistently be depended on to do is die, quickly and vehemently. :D:p

[Brinniel]

I must thank my comrades for a great game and exciting victory.

Legate made for a wise and great evil overlord (with democratic tendencies). I enjoyed being evil with him from the start and bouncing ideas back and forth.

And of course, Sally is always fun to werewolf with. (I also loved our reactionary OMG texts we sent to each upon the end of Day 5.)

[Brinniel]

And props to Team GW for a great performance!

We were wary of Nerwen as the possible GW for awhile and though we finally concluded last Night she most likely was, we were never completely sure.

We knew last Night that either Shasta or Eonwe were gifted, though I did not expect it to be both of them. Shasta, you amaze me with your accuracy.

I know the odds looked like they were on the Evil Side's favor for the last couple Days, but it could've so easily gone either way. Team GW was quite effective in blocking our wolf picks, which kept our pack small. And by the end of Day 5, we knew they were onto us. Both picks last Night were very tough to make and it felt something like Russian Roulette. We really lucked out with picking Eomer, because had that pick failed, all three of us would've been flailing into Day 6 for what might have been a slow and painful loss.

[Brinniel]

And I saw somewhere in the Dead Thread that someone guessed the EW's strategy would be to stay quiet and let the wolves make some noise...but we actually found the opposite to work best. It wasn't intentional at first (Legate is naturally a louder player and I'm quieter), we were happy to keep the focus on Legate because while lynching him wouldn't be ideal, it's better than a wolf death and it would give us one more Night for a conversion before a challenge could occur. And of course on the last Night, we kept our fingers crossed that the focus on Legate would prompt the GW to select him as the visitor who leaves rather than a wolf.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Woohoo! Or, mwahahahaha. (Finally don't need to hide my true colours.)

Brinniel already said all the important stuff, basically. I spent the last Night tearing my hair off how to make sure our pick doesn't get canceled by the GW again, because that was what everything depended on.

That said, to my arch-nemesis Nerwen and all the other Gifteds, really a good play. *bows* Bonus points to Shasta who was, once again, psychic. (Like what is it - first one post per day, then: "Legate is evil." Next: "And Brinn and Sally probably too.") Like I told my packmates last Night in my moment of deepest doubt: "If we lose, then we can take pride in not losing to any losers."

It was a fabulous game in any case; and thank you Kuru for orchestrating it (plus I really like "my" video :D )

BUT with all the praise for my opponents, who I still have to praise the most were my Wolfy minions, who faithfully accompanied me throughout the entire game when we couldn't for the life of us get a third Wolf. But we had a blast, and it was amazing to play with you both! Thank you for a memorable experience! :)

[Nerwen]

Night 5
Wolf pick: Eonwe - After another failure, we decided to take a different strategy and go with a riskier pick rather than a safe one. Since both Sally and I were gunning against him the previous Day, should the game continue another Day, we thought as a wolf, we could throw him under the bus and look less suspicious for doing so. In previous Nights, we did avoid him thinking he was an obvious pick for the GW, but by Night 5 we hoped the GW would assume the same thing and not pick him, and it seemed highly unlikely he'd be chosen that Night. We gambled and unfortunately we were wrong. Boy, was that infuriating...
So that's who it was. I knew you had to have picked one of them.

Kill: Nogrod - We killed him for the full intention of causing some chaos. Considering he could be easy lynch fodder, no one would expect a Nog death (and no way he'd be ranger protected). If we continued into the next Day, we hoped the village would be distracted by trying to figure out why he died.
Yes, I noted Legate's frustration that that this wasn't happening...

[Thinlómien]

Well, anyone who's read the Dead Thread knows I got mercilessly confused by the end of the last Day...

...but I'm quite glad my top suspects were Legate, Brinn and Nerwen. Less glad that I decided Nerwen was the most suspicious of them all. :rolleyes::D

But well played, both teams! It looks like it was quite a battled beneath the surface, of course us (dead) ordos were entirely clueless of it all until yesterDay when Kuru hinted that the game has been "quite a chess match" so far. :cool:

Thanks for modding, Kuru! The narrations were hilarious and I especially appreciate you always being there to clarify rules, as well as you keeping us company on the Dead Thread.

[Thinlómien]

Also I briefly talked with Legate at home this morning and he said WHAT HE AND BRINNIEL WERE MESSING AROUND SWITCHING WITH THE EMPOWERMENT COMMUNICATION LIST YESTERdAY WAS PRE-PLANNED AND YOU CAN SEE HOW HAPPY THIS MAKES ME. :mad::mad:

Yeah we dead weren't too happy about it, especially not about the updated version... :rolleyes:

But proves again that the evil team were on top of their game.