Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXV: On the Borders of Mirkwood - Dead Thread

[Boromir88]

This is the Dead Thread Thread.


PEOPLE STILL "ALIVE" IN THE "TOL IN GAURHOTH: ON THE BORDERS OF MIRKWOOD" Game Thread, PLEASE DO NOT CONTINUE READING ANY FURTHER!

THIS IS OUT OF BOUNDS FOR YOU.

-~*-~*-

*This Thread will be closed until the the fortunate dead begin to populate it.*

[Boromir88]

The Dead

Boro (Mod)
Huinesoron (Villager)

----
It is Night 2

Welcome Huey! You are free to post and talk to yourself (although try to refrain from spamming. The moderators frown on getting this thread "too chatty"

I'm just pumped that I will finally experience a dead thread from the start until the end. And NOT have to read the entire thread afterwards.

[Huinesoron]

Welp.

"Live fast, die young, leave an introspective corpse." - Finrod, probably

I shall muse to myself tomorrow, and see who joins me toMorrow. :)

"Don't get mad - get even." - I wanna say Tuor?

hS

[Huinesoron]

"There is no emotion - there is peace.
There is no ignorance - there is knowledge.
There is no passion - there is serenity.
There is no death - there is the Dead Thread." - Let's say Finwe

Huinesoron's analysis of Day 1, Part 1: Me.

Good news! Multiple people noted that my play style was different to last game, which was a firm goal of mine.

Less good news: I'm not sure the difference they noticed was the one I was aiming for. I was angling for 'shorter and more committed posts', but seem to have wound up with 'more pokey'.

Bad news: it got me killed. :rolleyes:

Okay, so why am I dead? According to my voters:

-Shasta: thought I was the Nightmare Wolf because I was pushing people, liked my explanation for what I was up to, but voted me anyway.

-Rikae: skeptical about my pushing, and thought my paranoia looked guilty. That's fair.

-Nog: misreading my 'initial suspicion' of Formendacil, and not liking me saying what I was doing w/r/t pushing.

-Kath: 'to see what happens', plus presumably the earlier claim I was ''pushing' everyone but not particularly saying a lot himself.'

I'm seeing two factors at play, both in the votes and in people's other comments on me:

-Actively pushing people to try and get reads on them draws attention. Not much I can do about that - I get my best reads off people by interacting with them, and I refuse to sit quietly and not play the game.

-I'm saying too much of what I'm thinking. This covers both the paranoia theory and Nog's whole thing. I mean... I kind of see the point, but not sharing my thoughts means the rest of the village aren't getting all the information. I want to make sure that they understand what I'm trying to say and do, rather than just leaving them a bunch of 'hS is being weird'.

I dunno. I'd really like to think the clear misreading by various people (Kath, Nog) is wolfish scheming, because... well, I'm a writer, words are my tool, and the idea that I'm just bad at communicating makes me kind of sad. But... ah, well.

Next post: the votes.

hS

[Huinesoron]

"Tol-in-Gaurhoth was a democracy - one man, one vote. The Moderator was the Man, and he had the Vote." - Orodreth, I suppose.

Huinesoron's Analysis of Day 1, Part 2: The Vote

Unlike most votes in the last game, this wasn't a two-horse race, and that means there's a lot of potential information there - hooray! Let's get to it. From Boro's DL-minus-5 tally:

Nilp > Nilp
Sally > No Vote
Shasta > Huey
Huey > Form
BG > Form (2)
Greenie > Pitch
Rikae > Huey (2)
Lommy > Nilp (2)
Nog > Huey (3)
Lottie > Legate
Kath > Huey (4)
Brinn > BG
Legate > Form (3)
Form > Nilp (3)
Pitch > Kath
Mac > Pitch (2)


Nilp - classic self-vote. No information there, he has to.
Sally - ill. No information.
Shasta - not an unreasonable vote.
Huinesoron - I was right in every particular, obviously.
Blind Guardian - feels like a new player latching onto whatever they can, and trying to pick a safe vote, but is that a wolfy new player or an innocent one? Their reply to Kath (#82), adding suspicion of Sally 'because she's sick' looks wolfy, and the fact that they agreed with Kath's +- of me but then followed my vote isn't really consistent.
Greenie - Continued her previous suspicion, adding a new name to a 2/1/1 field. She could be protecting Form, I suppose, but this looks fine.
Rikae - As I said last time, a fair vote.
Lommy - Voted Nilp, taking us to 2/2/2/1 - a level field. If she's a wolf, that might suggest neither Form nor Nilp are, since a level field of villagers is a wolf's playground. But... honestly, she says Nilp looks Cobblerish, and he does. :D
Nog - I don't like this (and not just because he voted me!). Unlike me, he made no indication that he was pressed for time, so he could absolutely have gone back to check whether I ever suspected Form. Instead, he just based his comments, and his vote, on my own final post. He also 'misread' the rules earlier, despite them being identical to the rules of his own game when it comes to dead wolves. I just feel like he's doing all this on purpose, and hiding behind 'it was an honest mistake'.
Lottie - Legate for his roundup post looking too waffly. I... did she suspect anyone at any point? I was actually feeling worried about her for her several defences of me; a good strategy if WolfLottie could tell I was heading for a fall.
Kath - Took me to 4, way out ahead of the rest of the field, essentially for information. Running the maths, three of the five players who hadn't voted yet would need to act in concert to save me, so this is dodgy as all get out. We only have four wolves - was she expecting all three to not have voted and to pile on to preserve my hide? I also don't think she ever addressed her clearly-false claim that I hadn't said anything, and I'm not the only one who flagged that.
Brinn - Added a new candidate to a field of four, with four other players to vote. They would all have to go for BG for them to be killed, and this wasn't a cross-posted vote either.
Legate - Voted Form as potential Cobbler. If he didn't think I was guilty, this or Nilp was the best choice.
Form - Crossed with Legate, which means this vote has exactly the same vote as Legate's, except with even less choice to make. :)
Pitch - Voted Kath at the last minute. Even if we assume he crossed with the last three votes, this was a throwaway vote. He offers no explanation, and his only comments on her have mostly been tied up in my paranoia. Dodgy.
Mac - Voted Pitch at the last minute. Before or after seeing his vote? Either way, this was a throwaway. That said, he had raised the possibility in his second post, six minutes earlier. So... it was a prepared throwaway. :D


Based on that, here's my list of 'suspicious or not':

hS thinks evil:
-Nog
-Lottie?
-Kath
-Brinn
-Pitch

hS is neutral:
-Nilp (but might be a cobbler - those boots!)
-Sally
-Form
-Mac

hS thinks innocent:
-Shasta
-Greenie
-Rikae
-Lommy
-Legate

This was my problem yesterDay: my biggest 'evil' reads were on people who suspected me. But with more time to look back, I still think they're dodgy.

I would guess one of the final group will join me here toMorrow, and would consider any of them as a possible Medium. If one of the 'evil' group winds up night-killed, I'll need to do a total reevaluataion. (I can't imagine a Neutral will - Nilp is on his first game back, Sally is ill, Form was the person a lynched innocent voted for, and Mac's lack of posting makes him look generally suspicious.)

hS

[Huinesoron]

"A picture lynches a thousand words." - Sounds like Ar-Pharazon the Cobbler

I drew this the other day as part of a birthday present for my mother. Consider it my gift to mislynched Ordos and undercover wolves alike.

https://i.imgur.com/8TwJVsml.jpg

Whoever joins me here: welcome! I will laugh so hard if you're the Cobbler. ;)

hS

[Boromir88]

Yes, yesterday was a more typical day 1 voting than Nog's game. :p

Love the drawing!

[Boromir88]

The Dead

Boro (Mod)
Huinesoron (Villager)
Loslote (Villager)

----

It is Day 2.

Welcome Loslote.

You and Huey will have to vote for the same person, among the living, to be the Medium today. You are allowed to retract your votes, by

--Boro

But as soon as you both vote for the same person (if you decide to) the voting is over and the person you chose is automatically the Medium.

[Loslote]

Well, I was trying to draw the wolf kill, I was just hoping the Ranger or Beast Hunter would pick up on the Seer hints. :rolleyes::p

[Huinesoron]

'allo Lottie, sorry you're dead; well done on not being Gifted. :) Of all the people I called evil last Night, you're the one I'm happiest to be wrong about. :D I was just feeling really suspicious that anyone could look at me and not think wolf.

hS

[Loslote]

'allo Lottie, sorry you're dead; well done on not being Gifted. :) Of all the people I called evil last Night, you're the one I'm happiest to be wrong about. :D I was just feeling really suspicious that anyone could look at me and not think wolf.

hS

I was pretty sure you were innocent, so I tried to broadcast "Seer kinda annoyed that her N1 dream was being lynched" as hard as I could. ;)

[Loslote]

Also, my instinct when you were jumpy about me and Kath was that you might be Gifted. I eventually realized you weren't going to reveal and just voted for my top suspicion at the time (Legate, though I would now add Nog).

[Huinesoron]

I was pretty sure you were innocent, so I tried to broadcast "Seer kinda annoyed that her N1 dream was being lynched" as hard as I could. ;)

Looks like it worked! Like you say, it's a shame nobody protected you; but equally, as Ordos it's kind of our job to draw fire for the good of the village. It just... rather sucks when it works.

hS

[Huinesoron]

Also, my instinct when you were jumpy about me and Kath was that you might be Gifted.

I am just a naturally jumpy person. :-/

hS

[Loslote]

Looks like it worked! Like you say, it's a shame nobody protected you; but equally, as Ordos it's kind of our job to draw fire for the good of the village. It just... rather sucks when it works.

hS

I'm not mad about it - I went into this game wanting to play a bolder game than I usually do. I've never actually done any significant Gifted hinting as part of a strategy. I do wish the BH had picked up on it and we could've gotten a wolf, too, but at least it's me dead and not a Gifted!

[Loslote]

Anyway, my thoughts on the living:

Susp
Legate
Nog
Kath
Mac

Cobbler
Pitch

Trust
Brinn
Rikae
BG
Form

Under the Reindeer
Lommy
Shasta
Sally
Nilp
Greenie

[Huinesoron]

I'm not mad about it - I went into this game wanting to play a bolder game than I usually do. I've never actually done any significant Gifted hinting as part of a strategy. I do wish the BH had picked up on it and we could've gotten a wolf, too, but at least it's me dead and not a Gifted!

Hear, hear.

So, any initial thoughts on the Medium?

hS

[Boromir88]

Looks like it worked! Like you say, it's a shame nobody protected you; but equally, as Ordos it's kind of our job to draw fire for the good of the village. It just... rather sucks when it works.

hS

So the last time I modded a game...I think it was way back in 2013, set in Lake-town.

Lottie was a wolf (I forget who the other wolves were). But I had the rule that in the event of a tie, whoever got the highest total LAST would be the one lynched.

I think the first 4 days and nights the only people dying were villagers and I swore to everyone that yes there are wolves and there are gifted roles in this village.

It got to the point where everyone knew everyone else's role, because the ranger made a save that turned it around for the village. And I will forever have the image of Lottie running down a street in DC to make it to the DL and vote to clinch it for the wolf pack. Because the last 2 days were just a voting arms-race as people hoped to be the "last" to vote.

Crazy. But that's also why I took Nog's rule from last game about tied votes.

[Loslote]

Looking at our lists, it seems like we only agree that we feel good about Rikae, so they might be a good option to vote for as Medium toDay.

[Loslote]

It got to the point where everyone knew everyone else's role, because the ranger made a save that turned it around for the village. And I will forever have the image of Lottie running down a street in DC to make it to the DL and vote to clinch it for the wolf pack. Because the last 2 days were just a voting arms-race as people hoped to be the "last" to vote.

A couple of details: It wasn't DC, it was Annapolis...and I left a date early just to make it back in time. :D

[Loslote]

But yeah, I was all dressed up and literally *running* down the street. That was some game. :D

[Huinesoron]

But yeah, I was all dressed up and literally *running* down the street. That was some game.

:D That's an amazing story. Please tell me you won!

Looking at our lists, it seems like we only agree that we feel good about Rikae, so they might be a good option to vote for as Medium toDay.

Agreed for now, depending on how the Day shapes up. Looks like we also agree on Nog, Kath, and Pitch all being some flavour of bad news - shame we can't do anything with that!

Argh, I need to sleep soon; I was hoping the Living would talk a little before I went, but they're not obliging.

hS

[Loslote]

Here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=17747&page=10) is the game in question. Looks like the pack was Me, Greenie, Nerwen, and Kitanna, and we won by the skin of our teeth. :D

EDIT: Greenie was the cobbler, that's right.

[Boromir88]

Here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=17747&page=10) is the game in question. Looks like the pack was Me, Greenie, Nerwen, and Kitanna, and we won by the skin of our teeth. :D

EDIT: Greenie was the cobbler, that's right.

Oh jeez...2011. :eek:

[Loslote]

Looks like Rikae picked up on my being way too certain about Huin, which probably means they aren't a wolf OR the Ranger or BH. Kath claims she didn't notice anything, which might be kind of suspicious or might just mean she's not in a Seer-hunting frame of mind.

[Loslote]

Hmm. Maybe he's playing in an older style, but I don't like Form actively talking about people giving off "Gifted/Wolf" vibes. Also, the way he talked about Kath and Pitch felt to me like wolf-on-wolf with bonus implicating an innocent, where Pitch is the innocent he's tying packmate Kath to. Feeling less good about Form.

[Loslote]

If I were to guess, the wolves picked Lottie because they thought she was a seer who dreamt of Hui.

THANK YOU. I don't know how no one else figured that one out. :p

[Huinesoron]

Here's something I don't like at all:

The flip-flop on me mid-post, resulting in his vote for me, was weird, but the real value there is in how it got leapt on and became the driving factor for his lynching.

Only one person actually voted for me because of that overly-contracted post: Nog. Rikae and Kath both seem to have been acting on their earlier suspicions. So why is Form trying to pin the blame on my final post?

Also this from earlier in the same post:


My records of who mentioned/quoted seem a bit less useful here, since he turned out to be ordinary

I turned out to be ordinary... unlike... you, Lottie? Because he just got done comparing the same information for you. That really looks like a non--removed line from a pre-written post analysing you as the Seer.

THANK YOU. I don't know how no one else figured that one out

:D I like the general point Brinn makes that Seers get innocent reads more often than guilty ones. Since the wolves probably killed you for an innocent 'read', it's in their interests to keep people thinking you had a wolf down. That maybe clears Legate? I think it also makes Brinn look pretty good that they said it.

I'm still not overly keen on Brinn's vote, but that's the only thing I'm worried over, and as Mac pointed out, it's easy to lose track of the count.

hS

[Huinesoron]

Nilp at #230 seems to be either arguing that you're not the Seer, or that the Wolves couldn't have thought you were the Seer, or that the Wolves were stupid for thinking you were. I'm really not sure where he's aiming with this.

hS

[Huinesoron]

Greenie and Pitch have the same reasoning as me re Nog and Kath. As usual, being agreed with makes me very suspicious. :)

And Form wandered off down a weird blind alley where you could be the Cobbler and ???somehow??? this speculation is useful. He weirdly doesn't mention the Dead Thread, which is the only place the idea could be of any use.

Also, my memory of the rules discussion is that we touched on no roles being revealed, but never on just the Cobbler not being revealed, which makes this a really odd idea to get.

hS

[Huinesoron]

I would be happy to Mediumize either Rikae or Brinniel today. If you've got a different suggestion, I'm willing to be convinced. :)

hS

[Huinesoron]

I mean, should one go like: "hmmm, who might the wolves have thought is the seer? X seemed to make some seerish comments, but no, I think s/he might be a wolf, so that's not a possible scenario"????? :rolleyes:

Um... yes? I feel like 'Why wouldn't the wolves have killed X? Well, maybe X is a wolf!' is pretty logical thinking?

Looking at the tally, the only thing that really stands out to me is that if Form is a wolf, we should look at Nogrod and Kath.

o.O Kath, Nog, if you're not wolves, you should probably look into why so much of the village thinks you are. Counting Team Dead, that's at least five people citing both of you.

---

It occurs to me that I should probably be hunting innocents rather than wolves at this point, for Mediumming purposes. Lommy is still looking good here, though I don't have anything specific to point to.

hS

[Loslote]

I would be happy to Mediumize either Rikae or Brinniel today. If you've got a different suggestion, I'm willing to be convinced. :)

hS

Totally with you.

[Loslote]

I like what Greenie's been saying, too. Still catching up with the living, though. In a perfect world, I'd like to Mediumize someone who's going to vote for Kath, Nog, or Form if at all possible, ideally one of Brinn, Rikae, or Greenie.

[Loslote]

I see what you mean about Lommy, too. I'd be okay Mediumizing her as well.

[Loslote]

I would be leaning towards Rikae, Greenie, and Lommy, in that order, but imagine if we Mediumized Brinn first chance we could after last game....

[Huinesoron]

I see what you mean about Lommy, too. I'd be okay Mediumizing her as well.

And having just reread, I'd be generally okay Mediumizing Greenie. I felt like she might have just been rephrasing other people's comments, but on looking back, I think she got in first on the Legate-as-Seer-target idea.

I feel like Nog has attracted more suspicion today than Kath or Form; maybe it would be worth Mediumizing a Kath/Form voter if it looks like the vote might be split between one of them and Nog? That way the wolves might need to show their hand, if there's two of them on the block.

Double-checking the rules, we can wait until the last minute to vote. I'd really rather not - I need sleep - but if things look dicey we can hold off.

I would be leaning towards Rikae, Greenie, and Lommy, in that order, but imagine if we Mediumized Brinn first chance we could after last game...

... :D Ohhhh, it's so tempting. (Don't say it too loud, though; I'm told that summons Cobbler55 to the thread...)

I'm not going to argue with that order. From Rikae's latest post, they look set to vote Nog at the moment. Greenie looks to be somewhere between Nog and Legate, and Lommy... could do anything.

hS

[Boromir88]

I would be leaning towards Rikae, Greenie, and Lommy, in that order, but imagine if we Mediumized Brinn first chance we could after last game....

Hahaha

[Huinesoron]

Hahaha

If you'd gone with your original plan of telling them once we'd Mediummed someone, you could totally have trolled the Living with this.

Green zone:

Lommy - generally seems innocentish to me, nothing that would give me Wolfy vibes.
Greenie - also nothing in particular. I may want to start paying more attention to her, because I realise she's been under my radar, but more or less reasonable posting thus far.
Brinn - same. I agree with many of her points, especially regarding BG. She's basically the Rune of this game for me.

Lemon-lime zone:

Rikae - yesterDay seemed generally like going with very rational analysis that I could essentially follow. Would like to see more from them still toDay.

Lottie - does the fact that your vote from yesterday agrees precisely with our innocent list make you feel better about him, or worse about them?

hS

[Loslote]

Lottie - does the fact that your vote from yesterday agrees precisely with our innocent list make you feel better about him, or worse about them?

hS

Confused. I feel stronger about Nog, Kath, and Form at this point, but I definitely am still wary of Legate. I'm starting to agree that if anyone votes Kath or Form, it would be a good idea to Medium them, just so they don't get lost in the louder Nog-Legate controversy.

[Boromir88]

Fully expecting another 4 page explosion in 2 hours, but it has been quite a diplomatic village so far...all the business of reasoning and talking peacefully with murderers. :rolleyes: :p

[Loslote]

What is BG doing???? Are they speculating about who the Gifteds might be???????

[Loslote]

BG is either the Cobbler or REALLY misstepping here

[Huinesoron]

What is BG doing???? Are they speculating about who the Gifteds might be???????

:eek::eek::eek:

BG has said that they've played before, so they must know how bad an idea that is. I can't see innocence there at all.

Nog's 'people suspecting me are out to ruin my game' doesn't ring true to me. I don't understand why Sally has gone with 'Nog doesn't express frustration, so him doing so must be real' ; does she think he couldn't fake it, or that he wouldn't?

Rikae’s latest looks good to me; no qualms about Mediumming them.

hS

[Loslote]

Greenie just voted for Kath, might be a good choice of Medium. I think we can wait to see where Rikae votes though.

[Huinesoron]

Greenie just voted for Kath, might be a good choice of Medium. I think we can wait to see where Rikae votes though.

Concur on both counts. Also, There's no point Mediumming a Kath vote if everyone winds up voting her anyway.

hS

[Huinesoron]

Boro, if you're around: am I right in thinking the Living will have no way of knowing whether we chose the Medium before or after they voted?

hS

[Loslote]

Concur on both counts. Also, There's no point Mediumming a Kath vote if everyone winds up voting her anyway.

hS

True. The deadline is 4pm my time, I can stick around until then no problem. I feel like we can decide early if you need to go to bed, though, we have a good enough option already that that wouldn't be an issue.

[Huinesoron]

True. The deadline is 4pm my time, I can stick around until then no problem. I feel like we can decide early if you need to go to bed, though, we have a good enough option already that that wouldn't be an issue.

I've still got an hour or so; we'll see what happens, but I'm happy to Medium Greenie.

hS

[Galadriel55]

... :D Ohhhh, it's so tempting. (Don't say it too loud, though; I'm told that summons Cobbler55 to the thread...)

*apparition appears*

+- Brin

No? No? Well, it was worth a try. :D

*disappears* (but you had to know this was gonna happen :p)

[Huinesoron]

*apparition appears*

+- Brin

No? No? Well, it was worth a try. :D

*disappears* (but you had to know this was gonna happen :p)

:D

Back on topic, our prospective wolves all seem to be suspecting one another. That's kind of ominous. I've looked back through Kath today (well, page 7), and I still think she's dodgy: she's clearly decided to pursue Nog, and is latching onto the BG/spot-the-gifted thing as a target of opportunity. Might suggest BG is more likely to be innocent, but again, how?

hS

[Loslote]

*apparition appears*

+- Brin

No? No? Well, it was worth a try. :D

:D In the Cobbler's name, we carry on...

Back on topic, our prospective wolves all seem to be suspecting one another. That's kind of ominous. I've looked back through Kath today (well, page 7), and I still think she's dodgy: she's clearly decided to pursue Nog, and is latching onto the BG/spot-the-gifted thing as a target of opportunity. Might suggest BG is more likely to be innocent, but again, how?

BG might just be making some very poor decisions. I actually think they're more likely to be innocent, since I think Pitch or Form are probably the cobbler. :o

[Boromir88]

You know what...there has been remarkably a lot more talk about either

A. Who's a gifted
or
B. Who's a cobbler

Then who are actual wolves. *headdesk* Gotta love how these games play out sometimes. :cool: :rolleyes:

[Huinesoron]

:D In the Cobbler's name, we carry on...

In Her name.

Speaking of Brinn, though, their latest post is pure filler. "Why are we discussing Gifteds?" has been said by half a dozen people at this point.

As for Mac on Shasta in #282: I think those are the same, and the first one killed me!

hS

[Loslote]

Speaking of Brinn, though, their latest post is pure filler. "Why are we discussing Gifteds?" has been said by half a dozen people at this point.

I think she was the first one to suggest it might be a NW tactic, though.

[Loslote]

Less than an hour to go and no votes.....you're making our job hard, guys!

[Boromir88]

I just decided to write this into today's narration:

Tensions and suspense filled as they all stared at each other for several minutes. Even the dead were scratching their heads about what they were supposed to do with the whole town engaged in a staring contest.

:rolleyes:

Oi they need a wolfy-Boro to stir the pot.

[Huinesoron]

You know what...there has been remarkably a lot more talk about either

A. Who's a gifted
or
B. Who's a cobbler

Then who are actual wolves. *headdesk* Gotta love how these games play out sometimes. :cool: :rolleyes:

I think the NW is throwing them off. They've gotten stuck on the idea of the NW as a pseudo-Cobbler, and the Cobbler as a pseudo-Tanner, so now anyone acting weird is clearly deliberately trying to get killed. Cobbler55's spectacular exit last game is probably partly responsible here. :)

I think she was the first one to suggest it might be a NW tactic, though.

Maybe? I'd have to check.

Still here, still awake.

hS

[Huinesoron]

I just decided to write this into today's narration:

:rolleyes:

Oi they need a wolfy-Boro to stir the pot.

Just go in and cast a vote for Brinn on our behalf, that'll mix things up. :D

I get both "frustrated innocent" and "frustrated wolf who thinks he's being suspected for the wrong reasons"

That's what I was seeing! Nog is sounding like me from last game (mostly in the Cutie-bar or in my own notes) - deeply frustrated that people are suspecting him over things he meant seriously. This makes me feel very good about Lommy.

hS

[Loslote]

I just decided to write this into today's narration:.

I love it! :D :p

[Loslote]

Just go in and cast a vote for Brinn on our behalf, that'll mix things up. :D

Hahaha, yes please Boromod! :D

[Boromir88]

I love it! :D :p

Hahaha, yes please Boromod! :D

hahaha, unfortunately I'm not that evil.

It seems as if they'll have a hard enough time deciding what to do.

[Huinesoron]

Second vote, BG on Form, explicitly a repeat of yesterDay. Surely (surely!) a wolf would be able to come up with some justification.

And Kath has just tried to walk back her suspicion of Nog. Worth flagging for analysis once one of them is hopefully dead. :)

hS

[Loslote]

Interesting that Form voted for Kath......

[Huinesoron]

Interesting that Form voted for Kath......

Worrying. With Kath spending so much time on Nog, and now this, she has strong ties to both our other top suspects. That seems incautious for a wolf; if she's innocent, then that problem goes away.

But I still don't trust her. :-/

hS

[Loslote]

Really liking what Lommy is saying.

[Loslote]

Worrying. With Kath spending so much time on Nog, and now this, she has strong ties to both our other top suspects. That seems incautious for a wolf; if she's innocent, then that problem goes away.

But I still don't trust her. :-/

hS

Yeah. It could be three wolves who got unluckily suspected trying to go for the wolf-on-wolf. It could be one or two wolves trying to get one or two innocents tangled up with them. Or it could be three innocents and we're just barking up the wrong tree, in the wrong forest, on the wrong side of the country. :o

[Loslote]

Mac and Nilp voted for each other. I wouldn't mind either of them joining us tbh.

[Loslote]

Right now Nogrod is my best lynch candidate. I could go for Formy as well. A lot of his posting does seem calculated, and not in a good way.

Huey. Huey let's do it. :p

[Huinesoron]

Really liking what Lommy is saying.

Concur.

Mac and Nilp voted for each other. I wouldn't mind either of them joining us tbh.

And in the same minute; what is going on?

Pitch has the same worries as you about Form voting Kath; makes me less comfortable about Mediumming Greenie. We could really use more votes...!

Huey. Huey let's do it.

... :D

hS

[Loslote]

Lommy voted Form, I'd be okay with Mediuming that. I was serious about the Brinn suggestion. :D

[Huinesoron]

Lommy has voted Form, and, and...

Look, I'm just going to leave this here:

++Brinniel

If you disagree, I'll pop back in 5 minutes or so and can change to your choice (Lommy?).

hS

[Loslote]

Happy with Brinn as Medium. I'll hold off in case she doesn't vote the way she said she was planning to.

[Huinesoron]

Rikae and Legate on Nog, Kath on... Nilp? Nothing from Brinn.

hS

[Loslote]

Vote's swinging Nog's way. I'm fine with either Form or Nog, I think Brinn will vote Nog. I'm comfortable with Mediuming a Nog vote.

[Loslote]

Rikae and Legate on Nog, Kath on... Nilp? Nothing from Brinn.

hS

Makes me feel better about Kath.

[Huinesoron]

Ditto.

VOTE, BRINN!

hS

[Loslote]

Brinn voted Nog. Happy with that? I'll vote her in a second.

[Huinesoron]

Brinn says Nog.

hS

[Huinesoron]

Perfectly happy. :)

hS

[Loslote]

Should we go for Form instead?? I'm second guessing lol

[Huinesoron]

Your call, I can swap.

[Loslote]

No, I think this is a good move. No time for rethinking.

++Brinn

[Boromir88]

Brinn it is. :p

[Loslote]

Ah, we could've swung it to Form after all. Voting last second is not helpful, living!!

[Huinesoron]

No, I think this is a good move. No time for rethinking.

They're all Cobblers, is the problem.

And time!

Did Nog get lynched? If so, I look forward to seeing him discover that you were deliberately looking Seerish about me, not about Legate.

hS

[Loslote]

They're all Cobblers, is the problem.



Ain't that the truth!

Did Nog get lynched? If so, I look forward to seeing him discover that you were deliberately looking Seerish about me, not about Legate.

Sorry, Nog! :p

[Huinesoron]

If we had gone +-Lommy, and Shasta hadn't added that final Form vote, Boro would have had to figure out how a Medium affects the 'first to reach the tie' rule. Could've been fun!

hS

[Huinesoron]

Ah, botheration.

Welcome, Nogrod. Sorry you're dead. :-/ In our defence, you just looked really suspicious until the last four minutes or so.

(But there is something beautiful in you being killed by the Dead Thread voting for Brinn)

hS

[Boromir88]

The Dead

Boro (Mod)
Huinesoron (Villager)
Loslote (Villager)
Nogrod (Villager)

---

Welcome to our newest member, Nogrod! Hopefully you enjoy the view here much better than what happened in that Game thread. :p

And I like in my Lake-town themed game there are wolves, and gifteds, and a cobbler...but so far it's following an eerily similar path.

[Nogrod]

Hi there!

And sorry hS to have aided in your demise. I guess I got my share by being voted here the next. Although I feel I was kind of pushed here at least in part by the wolves. Hopefully that gives the innocents something to chew on.

But hey, you gave your extra vote to Brinniel! Of all people! Please let me hear why?

you just looked really suspicious until the last four minutes or so.You just can't be serious. I was mainly saying the same all the time. There was no change in my message in the last minutes.

[Loslote]

We were torn between you and Form, but with the votes being so last minute, we didn't realize we could swing the vote, and I at least was feeling better about Kath. I did think you might be a wolf, but I agree with Huin, something about your tone of voice last minute made me second guess myself. Should've listened to my own doubts!

[Boromir88]

If we had gone +-Lommy, and Shasta hadn't added that final Form vote, Boro would have had to figure out how a Medium affects the 'first to reach the tie' rule. Could've been fun!

hS

Interesting question! Not what I need to think about right now though with my head hurting as much as it does! ;)

I'll sleep on it, but lean towards the Medium vote comes at the "end" therefor, Nogrod would have still been lynched, since he got there first.

[Nogrod]

I look forward to seeing him discover that you were deliberately looking Seerish about me, not about Legate.
Well, that's news indeed!

:D

Haha.

It sounded soo stupid an idea - while the idea that the wolves were really getting creeped out because of Legate being dreamed looked the obvious one.

Although, Lottie's intentions have of course nothing to do with Legate's identity and how the wolves read it.

Anyway, bedtime for me. I'll read tomorrow what you guys have been up to thus far.

[Loslote]

Interesting question! Not what I need to think about right now though with my head hurting as much as it does! ;)

I'll sleep on it, but lean towards the Medium vote comes at the "end" therefor, Nogrod would have still been lynched, since he got there first.

That's what I assumed, that's why I said there wasn't a point to switching to Lommy, since Nog would've been the lynch anyway. Didn't see Shasta's vote coming.

[Huinesoron]

Hi there!

And sorry hS to have aided in your demise.

That's okay.

But hey, you gave your extra vote to Brinniel! Of all people! Please let me hear why?

I mean... how could we not?

You just can't be serious. I was mainly saying the same all the time. There was no change in my message in the last minutes.

Your #333 just sounded really genuine, whereas your message sounded wolfy.

It is late and I must sleep. I shall see you both later toNight.

hS

[Loslote]

It sounded soo stupid an idea - while the idea that the wolves were really getting creeped out because of Legate being dreamed looked the obvious one.

Although, Lottie's intentions have of course nothing to do with Legate's identity and how the wolves read it.

I was trying to be too obvious, haha! Figured the wolves wouldn't be able to pass it up, especially on Night 2, even if they had doubts that I might've been too obvious. I was hoping the Ranger or BH would've also picked up on it, but at least it wasn't the real Seer getting killed. :p

[Nogrod]

I'll sleep on it, but lean towards the Medium vote comes at the "end" therefor, Nogrod would have still been lynched, since he got there first.
That sounds reasonable.

Other option would of course be, timing it when the Medium vote is finally decided. It might add some interesting curve balls to the mix, but your version is clearer and more straightforwards.

[Nogrod]

A few comments on some things that I think I'd like to clarify or answer to. Just hoping to make myself understood.


hS on reasons he was suspected:
-Actively pushing people to try and get reads on them draws attention. Not much I can do about that - I get my best reads off people by interacting with them, and I refuse to sit quietly and not play the game.

-I'm saying too much of what I'm thinking. This covers both the paranoia theory and Nog's whole thing. I mean... I kind of see the point, but not sharing my thoughts means the rest of the village aren't getting all the information. I want to make sure that they understand what I'm trying to say and do
You're quite correct with the first one (I really know that from experience - the latest being partly this game), but that was not the reason I suspected you, and neither is the second one (which I think has more or less nothing to do with why people suspected you).

To sum up my suspicions on you, I'd say you were kind of overdoing everything. In the beginning it was the constant underlining of doing some elaborate tests on people, kind of overdoing something like "hey look at me, I'm sharp and doing good things for all of us, so do not lynch me", But the jumping through the roof with a weird conspiracy-theory was probably the thing which put the ball in motion. A wolf, or a gifted, might do that, hardly any normal villager (wolves and gifteds tend to be jumpier than innocents). I noticed it, but also thought it possible you're a gifted and thus went on in a low profile with it, well willing to fish out some reactions from you. But then you made that odd post no innocent should say - and that kind of did it for me.
Unlike me, he made no indication that he was pressed for time, so he could absolutely have gone back to check whether I ever suspected Form.
Well, it's not exactly true that you suspected Form initially - at least you don't say that in the thread, if you did. You were engaged with him in a disagreement of the Day1 and its uses, and then you said you were seeing him more innocent than not. But anyway, that wasn't the main point of my suspicion. That was the oddity of saying: I suspected him + I have a bad judgement = I vote him. A wolf might slip like that writing stuff in haste, but an innocent wouldn't (well, you most clearly did, so I was wrong - but I hope you see why I saw it thusly and that why it is a reasonable thought).



I mean, should one go like: "hmmm, who might the wolves have thought is the seer? X seemed to make some seerish comments, but no, I think s/he might be a wolf, so that's not a possible scenario"?????
Um... yes? I feel like 'Why wouldn't the wolves have killed X? Well, maybe X is a wolf!' is pretty logical thinking?
Et tu, Brute! :)

That quote is not from a discussion concerning Mac's role (whether he's innocent or a wolf). It is part of a speculation, whom the wolves might have found seerish - and for that you have to assume people innocent, naturally (because you don't know whom not to count because they actually are wolves). Now Brinn tried to make that look like I'm a wolf who knows Mac is innocent because I said he could have been seen as a seer... Holy Moses. And you gave her the extra vote... Holy Abraham. :rolleyes:



Nog's 'people suspecting me are out to ruin my game' doesn't ring true to me.
Heh. That was actually a burst of most sincere frustration. Fun fact (at least I believe it's a fact): I tend to live much longer as a wolf than as an innocent. I guess I know why. As a wolf I care first and foremost what others think of me and try to rub people the right way. As an innocent I try my best to find the wolves and don't care that much about appearances. It just feels wrong not to voice some suspicions because someone might think bad of you when you're innocent: when a wolf, image is everything, because there is no substance.



I get both "frustrated innocent" and "frustrated wolf who thinks he's being suspected for the wrong reasons"
That's what I was seeing! Nog is sounding like me from last game (mostly in the Cutie-bar or in my own notes) - deeply frustrated that people are suspecting him over things he meant seriously.
My daughter clearly knows me too well. I do hate it the most when a wolf and people suspect me for wrong reasons. That's so unbearable! It's almost as infuriating as hearing someone using bad arguments (in RL) on behalf of a proposition dear to you. Yes it was frustrating to sit by the laptop and see that no-one seemed to see what I was really doing, but just harping on those hostile or misunderstood talking points.




Well, this turned out quite a rant. But let's say that's it for my part: at least I got a chance to vent off all my leftover frustrations.

Let's hope someone makes sense on Day3 so that we can give a double-vote that does something good.

[Huinesoron]

You're quite correct with the first one (I really know that from experience - the latest being partly this game), but that was not the reason I suspected you, and neither is the second one (which I think has more or less nothing to do with why people suspected you).

To sum up my suspicions on you, I'd say you were kind of overdoing everything. In the beginning it was the constant underlining of doing some elaborate tests on people, kind of overdoing something like "hey look at me, I'm sharp and doing good things for all of us, so do not lynch me", But the jumping through the roof with a weird conspiracy-theory was probably the thing which put the ball in motion. A wolf, or a gifted, might do that, hardly any normal villager (wolves and gifteds tend to be jumpier than innocents). I noticed it, but also thought it possible you're a gifted and thus went on in a low profile with it, well willing to fish out some reactions from you. But then you made that odd post no innocent should say - and that kind of did it for me.

I think this comes down to word choice again - 'this is a plan that could net wolves' and 'this looks like wolves out to get me' are both things I was thinking but probably shouldn't have been saying. :)

Well, it's not exactly true that you suspected Form initially - at least you don't say that in the thread, if you did. You were engaged with him in a disagreement of the Day1 and its uses, and then you said you were seeing him more innocent than not. But anyway, that wasn't the main point of my suspicion. That was the oddity of saying: I suspected him + I have a bad judgement = I vote him. A wolf might slip like that writing stuff in haste, but an innocent wouldn't (well, you most clearly did, so I was wrong - but I hope you see why I saw it thusly and that why it is a reasonable thought).

Your confidence in my consistency is pleasant but misplaced. :) I was poking Form until he said something that sounded innocent, so in my mind (writing in haste + several hours later) I must have suspected him. As for the 'suspected + judgement' thing - there was a slip, but it was in thinking I'd mentioned suspecting him earlier in the post. My meaning was 'I suspected him, then I thought he was innocent (but people are saying I was wrong)'.


Heh. That was actually a burst of most sincere frustration.

Well, now we know that. ;) But you have to admit, getting 'genuinely' upset/frustrated is great cover for a wolf.

I do hate it the most when a wolf and people suspect me for wrong reasons. That's so unbearable! It's almost as infuriating as hearing someone using bad arguments (in RL) on behalf of a proposition dear to you.

Right?!

Well, this turned out quite a rant. But let's say that's it for my part: at least I got a chance to vent off all my leftover frustrations.

I think that's one of the best things about a Dead Thread, personally: getting to complain about being killed when it's still fresh enough to matter, to people who sympathise. (I mean, until the wolves start arriving; we all know what they're like.)


Let's hope someone makes sense on Day3 so that we can give a double-vote that does something good.

Please. :-/ And if the wolves could kill the Cobbler and get Beast Hunted doing so, that would be great too.

hS

[Boromir88]

Nogrod what the village really needs is a Boro-wolf to stir the pot. :p Too many folks talking about who is a gifted and who is a cobbler, forgetting there's 4 werewolves! But sometimes the first werewolf is the hardest to get and once one goes they all start to topple.

How about with regards to Huey's question...

If we had gone +-Lommy, and Shasta hadn't added that final Form vote, Boro would have had to figure out how a Medium affects the 'first to reach the tie' rule. Could've been fun!

It depends on when the person chosen as the Medium voted? So, Lommy was considered as a Medium, if she got it. Looking at the tally:

Greenie > Kath
BG > Form
Form > Kath (2)
Mac > Nilp
Nilp > Mac
Lommy > Form (2) +1 Medium (3)
Kath > Nilp (2)
Rikae > Nogrod
Legate > Nogrod (2)
Nogrod > Form (4)
Pitch > Nog (3)
Sally > Nilp (3)
Brinn > Nog (4)


Shasta under this comes in to add a final vote that would have put Form to 5. But If Lommy was chosen as the medium, since she voted before Brinn. If Lommy had been chosen as the Medium then Form would have been lynched.

What do you feel about that? I'd like some opinions, whatever I finally decide I'll post in the Game thread and Planning thread too, just so all the players know.

[Boromir88]

Nogrod what the village really needs is a Boro-wolf to stir the pot. :p Too many folks talking about who is a gifted and who is a cobbler, forgetting there's 4 werewolves! But sometimes the first werewolf is the hardest to get and once one goes they all start to topple.


And that's somethin the wolfpack remarked in your game too Nogrod. A lot of just open discussion about the who has a gifted role. Maybe we're all a little rusty and need to remember the goal is to lynch wolves. :smokin:

[Huinesoron]

What do you feel about that? I'd like some opinions, whatever I finally decide I'll post in the Game thread and Planning thread too, just so all the players know.

I think it makes sense, as the idea is that the Medium's vote is doubled, so it makes sense that it counts as their actual vote. It also adds a bit more strategy over here - we could be in a situation where we either Medium someone we don't trust (but who voted early + right) , or someone who voted late (but we trust).

hS

[Nogrod]

Maybe we're all a little rusty and need to remember the goal is to lynch wolves. :smokin:
That might be true - and even if I was, at least on my mind, mainly trying to find the wolves, I really noticed the lack of playing the game in many situations (like reading the rules sloppily as the crown-jewel of it).



After sleeping on it, I realized there are actually three possibilities of handling the extra-vote. As it looks to be in the nature of Death Threads that they empower Brinn, let me use her as an example.

1. The extra-vote takes place at the DL, as the last vote by definition - so no matter when Brinn casts her vote or when we here decide it's going to be her, it will be the last vote on the tally (and here you see the two other options). On a positive note, it is clear and straightforward and gives the mod the minimum headache being easy to count in case of a tie. On a negative side it is a bit boring - well at last it doesn't give room to any added drama.

2. The extra-vote takes place when Brinn gives her vote (like in your example). That would add some hair raising unpredictability, or add flavor to playing tactically in the Dead Thread. The first would happen if Brinn would hold her vote to the very end, the second if she casts it early and we had time to think about its consequences vs. some other choice.

3. The wild-card version would be, that the extra vote takes place at the moment we have the majority aka. over half of us has empowered Brinn - whether she has voted already or not. That would actually be quite crazy in here. I mean we could really make sure that if there is a tie, our way will win it (it could be the first vote of the Day, if we thus wanted) - but it might mean we don't know where the vote we will empower would then go to. In reality though, I'm afraid it would just mean our extra-vote taking place after Brinn has voted, as especially when the number of people here grows, we're less likely to achieve a majority decision early on the Day.


But yes, I guess all version have their pros and cons, so I'm happy with any one of them. (And I might have forgotten something crucial from my speculation, so please do hS and Lottie also think them around once to see any flaws there.)



On a totally different issue.

So who do you think will make us company in a few hours? I must admit, I'm pretty clueless right now - to me the village seems to be full of wolves, so it's hard to see anyone as such securely innocent that I'd presume that person coming here - not to talk of having any seer-vibes or such.

Ok. Disaster-version: Mac actually is the Seer and is killed toNight because of the discussions yesterDay.

Another result that would make me disappear from the planet for a few lifetimes in shame would be seeing Legate here. :eek:

Did you notice anything the wolves might think as seerish in yesterDay's posting? I think I was too busy thinking different issues yesterDay.

[Loslote]

I unfortunately didn’t see anyone looking like bait yesterDay, so we probably won’t see a Ranger save or a Hunted Beast. I would almost guess the wolves will go for someone who could be interpreted as trying to lay low, rather than looking for Seer hints.

[Huinesoron]

Not a bally clue. On my past showing, it'll probably be someone I think is obviously evil. :)

hS

[Loslote]

If I had to guess, maybe Greenie, Rikae, or Pitch. Push comes to shove, I'm guessing Greenie. We'll find out soon enough...

[Nogrod]

Not a bally clue. On my past showing, it'll probably be someone I think is obviously evil. :)
I have a similar feeling. I could name Greenie, Lommy, Brinn, maybe even Shasta (or Mac!) as ones whom the wolves might think are playing in a gifted / noncontroversial way and enjoy somewhat general trust so far... But hearing that any one of them is a wolf wouldn't actually surprise me.

I unfortunately didn’t see anyone looking like bait yesterDay, so we probably won’t see a Ranger save or a Hunted Beast.
Agreed. Sadly. Those are always fine moments in a WW-game. But let's keep fingers crossed: those things do happen by sheer good luck at times.

And anyway, Day by Day and Night by Night, all becomes more readable.

[Boromir88]

Under 15 minutes to go!

The suspense continues. :D

[Loslote]

Welcome to the Dead Thread, whoever you are!!

[Boromir88]

I have a surprise for you all...You get 3 guesses! Fine, guess away.

Greenie? No it's not Greenie.
Lommy? No not her either
Brinn or Rikae?

2 guesses at once, not very fair, but no to both!


The Dead

Boro (Town Recorder) - Night 1
Huinesoron (Villager) - Day 1
Loslote (Villager) - killed by pack Night 2
Nogrod (Villager) - Day 2 lynch
Blind Guardian (Villager) - Killed by pack Night 3

Welcome BG! Enjoy the view, it is much more relaxing here, with the responsibility of the living off everyone's shoulders. :D

With 4 dead players, 3 of you will have to vote for the same person if you decide to have a Medium today.

[Loslote]

How interesting!! Maybe they thought BG forgetting there was a Seer might've been a bluff BY the Seer?

[Huinesoron]

Welcome, Blind Guardian! Well done on not being Gifted. :)

hS

[Nogrod]

Welcome to the merry Inn of the deceased!

Take a comfortable chair and enjoy the company.

To be sure, no-one was expecting the Spanish inq... you to join us. Let's think about why it turned out this way?

[Loslote]

I'm about to go have dinner, but I just wanted to say:

Hui and Loslote,

THAT WAS EPIC
:D

It's so nice to be appreciated. :Merisu:

[Blind Guardian]

Hey all!

Glad to be here. I am not at all surprised the Wolves killed me. I was thinking at the end of yesterDay that the Wolves would kill me. I really stink at this game and went and reread the roles after the end of last Day.

I'm going to be reading over this thread in a bit. Y'all better not be talking about me :p

[Nogrod]

I somehow have a feeling people like Greenie, Lommy and Legate might be behind this. It would be amazing if the trio would all be wolves, but there's something in this choice that points to that general direction.

[Blind Guardian]

First off, I'm loving Hui's quotes and image at the beginning of this thread. Love the Wolf that says "ordinary villager" artwork!

Huh... Blind Guardian is a surprise.

Not really.

Unless the Wolves though her "discuss the Gifteds" actions yesterDay were a sign of Giftedness, the only thing I see them gaining is a lack of a trail.

This is what I'm leaning towards. I was either a Gifted (Seer) kill or another Villager. Which makes me either a good kill or an easy stab at an Innocent.

At this point they have:

4 Wolves
1 Cobbler

1 Seer
1 Ranger
1 Beast Hunter
4 Villagers

So 5/7 bad/good

If they still think that the Cobbler is either Form, Nilp, or Pitch and the Wolves choose not to attack any of them toNight then the bad guys still have a pretty good chance of killing a Gifted or another Innocent (especially if another Inno is lynched). Although it would be pertinent for the Seer to throw Cobbler vibes. I think either Nilp or Pitch is either a Cob or a Seer (I guess I should add Form to that list since people seem to think he is a Cobbler but that's not my choice).

I also love that Brinn pointed out my "Will I dream Dave?" title. I knew I would die for that post so I went back and added that (cause HAL says that as it dies in 2001 Space Odyssey + Sheila in Red vs Blue as she "dies"). Oh well.

I really wanted to also quote the Gravemind from Halo 2 "This is not your grave but you are welcome in it..."

Never got a chance.

Or did I...? ;) :p :smokin:

[Loslote]

Wolves never try to kill ordinary villagers, it doesn't do them any good. Far, far better to go for a Gifted even if you risk hitting the Cobbler. If they killed you, it was because they thought you were their best chance at a Gifted.

[Blind Guardian]

That makes sense.

I would like to point out that Rikae voted for both hS and Nog and both of them ended up lynched. Rikae was also the second person to vote for hS (Shasta was the first) and the first person to vote for Nog:

Day 1
2354: Brinn – BG
2355: Form – Nilp
2334: Greenie – Pitch
2348: Kath –hS
2355: Legate – Form
2340: Lommy – Nilp
2356: Mac – Pitch
0609: Nilp – Nilp
2355: Pitch – Kath
2339: Rikae – hS
2208: Sally – none
2246: Shasta - hS

Day 2
2155: Brinniel - Nog
2130: Form - Kath
1956: Greenie - Kath
2151: Kath - Nilp
2152: Legate - Nog
2144: Lommy - Form
2137: Mac - Nilp
2137: Nilp - Mac
2154: Pitch - Nog
2152: Rikae - Nog
2155: Sally - Nog
2200: Shasta - Form

Attachment is LEFT: data in order by name. RIGHT: order by time.

[Huinesoron]

Thanks for the vote tallies, BG! Looking at how we (in)Glorious Dead voted:

On Day 1, two of us voted for Form, and one for Legate (& one for me). Legate is now the only surviving Form voter from Day 1.

On Day 2, both BG and Nog voted... Form.

Okay, seriously: Form can't possibly be a wolf, right? No pack would allow a Day Three where 4 of the 6 votes cast by the dead were for one of their own. Right?

Looking at the voting times: that Nog-wagon really did come out of nowhere in terms of actual votes. They were all in the final nine minutes! Checking both days, the names that pop out as 'late & secured an innocent kill' are:


Pitch (throwaway vote Day 1, first to join the Nog-wagon Day 2 after being able to see it already had votes)
Brinn (throwaway when I was at 4 votes Day 1, final nail in Nog's coffin Day 2).


I feel like Rikae's early vote is actually a point in their favour. Would a wolf set themselves up as the instigator of multiple innocent lynches?

---

Something Mac said struck me as suspicious:

Lastly, while it's possible that Hui and Lottie made Brinn the medium for the entertainment value, but I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt (yes, I know, they're just ordos, too) and will give her a pass for toDay

But... why though? I know he doesn't know when we voted, but a) we know nothing, and b) our vote killed an innocent! Combine this with his first comment after the night-kill:

I believe you owe the good man an answer, you bloodthirsty lot!

I may be biased by already knowing why Lottie thinks she was killed, but trying to push Day Three's discussion back to the Day One night-kill seems pretty counterproductive, as well as a neat way of pushing attention onto Anyone But Him.

hS

[Huinesoron]

Um.

Looking back over that last post: what if we have a pack who are deliberately looking wolfish?

Because everyone has spent a lot of time saying 'That suspicious behaviour is too obvious for a [wolf/seer]!', and then focussing on the less-obviously-suspicious people. So a defense of 'Form can't be a wolf, why would the wolves kill all his voters?' and 'Rikae can't be a wolf, why would a wolf position themselves at the head of a lynch?' would probably hold up, at least for a day or so.

And... a day or so is all they need. If they can avoid losing a wolf toDay, and get a clean kill toNight, they'll be at 5 evil, 5 good, and all they need is the Cobbler to identify themselves and mass-vote for a single candidate. As we saw last game with Brinn's virtuoso performance as Seer, a 'reveal and we win' message is a very plausible way to pull off a victory.

This would work best if the wolves have a good idea of who the Cobbler is, since whichever pack member makes the request would presumably(?) attract immediate votes from all the innocents, so they'd have to time it well.

Quick maths-check for if they fail:

Day Four: 4w, 1c, 5i
-One wolf posts to say 'Cobbler, vote for X if and only if I have not already received 5 votes'. Wolf receives 5 votes; Cobbler stays hidden. Wolf leaves instructions for Cobbler to vote for the same villager ASAP the next day (assuming one innocent and no wolves die in the night). Wolf lynched

Night 5: 3w, 1c, 5i
-Innocent night-killed.

Day 5: 3w, 1c, 4i
-Cobbler votes immediately after DL for the designated target. Wolves mass vote. Innocent lynched, because they got 4 votes first.

Night 6: 3w, 1c, 3i
-Innocent night-killed. Might even be the Cobbler, as least-likely to be BH protected. Wolf victory.

It's a plan that could definitely be derailed by a Gifted, but if it worked... come to think of it, they don't even need the Cobbler: all they need on Day 4 is for the first vote cast to be innocent-on-innocent, and they can mass-vote and win.

So we really need to kill a wolf toDay, because otherwise it's all up to the Gifted.

hS

[Huinesoron]

Since we have an unbreakable majority here by now (or at least, once we hit 4 evildoers the Seer will almost certainly be outed anyway), I can safely say this: Greenie #357 for Seer? (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=726678&postcount=357)

She lists only three people as not suspicious (Nilp, Rikae, and Shasta), and uses the word 'read' of all three - and not of anyone else. They're all reasonable Seer targets: I assume the Seer would focus on people who might be undercover wolves, rather than looking at the obvious suspects. (I would guess Nilp for N1 dream, as if he's a wolf, you're never going to guess on D1.)

She closes by saying she wants to read (that word again!) through Lommy today, and highlights that she's 'under the radar' - the same criteria I think she used for her other dreams.

If I'm right, then we unfortunately don't have any Seer-confirmed wolves yet, which explains a lot! It also means we might see Greenie here sooner than later - after all, if even I can spot it...

(Could she be fake-Seer hinting? Maybe, but risky: she's 'cleared' a quarter of a village which is 1/3 wolves, the odds of hitting one of them and invalidating her 'reads' are... um... about 50%, I believe.)

hS

[Huinesoron]

And... a day or so is all they need. If they can avoid losing a wolf toDay, and get a clean kill toNight, they'll be at 5 evil, 5 good, and all they need is the Cobbler to identify themselves and mass-vote for a single candidate. ...

It's a plan that could definitely be derailed by a Gifted, but if it worked... come to think of it, they don't even need the Cobbler: all they need on Day 4 is for the first vote cast to be innocent-on-innocent, and they can mass-vote and win.

If this is right, it also explains BG's night-kill: not primarily a long-shot Seer, but someone who was unlikely to be protected by either the Ranger or the Beast Hunter. After all, if they can get to Day Four and time it right, it doesn't matter if the Seer has nailed all four of them: they win by getting the first vote. Their greatest danger would come from having one of their kills blocked (or, of course, one of them eating a lynch!).

hS

[Nogrod]

If this is right, it also explains BG's night-kill: not primarily a long-shot Seer, but someone who was unlikely to be protected by either the Ranger or the Beast Hunter. After all, if they can get to Day Four and time it right, it doesn't matter if the Seer has nailed all four of them: they win by getting the first vote. Their greatest danger would come from having one of their kills blocked (or, of course, one of them eating a lynch!).
Hmm... haven't made the maths myself, but I trust yours here.

In that case I'm actually curious no-one in the Living Thread seems to be too bothered about it...

Secondly: we might be witnessing a Seer reveal soonish - and possibly a counter-reveal by the NW. Especially if you have it right and it is indeed Greenie who is the Seer with three non-wolf Dreams. If the villagers vote the right way (so don't get fooled by a rival-reveal), they could then organize protection to her for the next Night and have a fighting chance.

Okay, I clearly need to look at the numbers.

[Nogrod]

Well, I guess you hS forgot something from your calculations: us!

The wolves may try to go for the "even numbers first" -victory - but we can derail them by giving an extra-vote to the good side and making it one vote -lynch. Which naturally means we'd have to succeed in it as well.

But yes. The worst scenario aka. an innocent lynch toDay and a succesful kill by the wolves the next Night will leave the village in the morning of Day4 at 6:4 by roles and 5:5 by siding. So in theory the wolves could win on Day4. It's only that they would really need to succeed in everything and we'd need to goof it royally.

With any other scenario than that things will be a lot more interesting and there are a myriad of variations.

That said I guess the Seer might still be holding her/his horses yet this Day. Then again there's the NW-issue no-one has talked about in a long time - but the wish of the wolves to unleash those capabilities probably hasn't gone anywhere. With only innocents dead thus far they might start to think, at some point, that they could afford one number less...

[Huinesoron]

Well, I guess you hS forgot something from your calculations: us!

The wolves may try to go for the "even numbers first" -victory - but we can derail them by giving an extra-vote to the good side and making it one vote -lynch. Which naturally means we'd have to succeed in it as well.

But yes. The worst scenario aka. an innocent lynch toDay and a succesful kill by the wolves the next Night will leave the village in the morning of Day4 at 6:4 by roles and 5:5 by siding. So in theory the wolves could win on Day4. It's only that they would really need to succeed in everything and we'd need to goof it royally.

Oh yeah... us. :D You're right, I did forget. Still doesn't help if they can piggyback a villager's vote Day 4 - that would get them 6 to a total of 5 (with us) against them.

As for us goofing it... I mean, we have for the last two days! The two protective Gifted will still have ten possible targets each toNight, and if the Seer reveals then at least one of them will have to protect her, making a kill even more likely.

With any other scenario than that things will be a lot more interesting and there are a myriad of variations.

That said I guess the Seer might still be holding her/his horses yet this Day. Then again there's the NW-issue no-one has talked about in a long time - but the wish of the wolves to unleash those capabilities probably hasn't gone anywhere. With only innocents dead thus far they might start to think, at some point, that they could afford one number less...

I feel like the best wolf strategy is to treat the NW as an ordinary wolf. Everyone thinks they'll be acting Cobblerish, so their best bet is... not to.

hS

[Loslote]

I've found Mac to be much more suspicious toDay, and Kath's reaction to Greenie also feels wolfish. I'm not done reading yet, but I wanted to jot that down while it was fresh in my mind.

[Loslote]

And Legate continuing to defend Kath and echoing her in going after Greenie feels like they may be packmates.

[Loslote]

Also, I'm starting to think Form might actually be innocent, but it's really helpful for the wolves if the village spends most of the first three days focusing on the same suspicious innocent. So the people who keep pushing that line of reasoning (Legate and Mac are who I noticed doing this) look very suspicious to me.

[Loslote]

Mac, you might be even more annoyed to hear that you're basically the victim of a poorly-told joke.

I thought to myself, if these furballs infesting this once-peaceful village want to go after obvious Seer candidates, I'll give them one.

So I looked for the most oblique, but still somewhat defensible angle of attack against someone otherwise unsuspected. Let them think I dreamt of this villager and am trying desperately to make a case. You happened to be the one on the receiving end of it. I regret nothing, btw, except the fact that I set traps around my house last NIGHT, but no one showed up.

Why? Was I too obvious? Too oblique? Or, the most apparent, barking up the wrong tree? This seems the most likely explanation. So Mac, I basically take back what I said yesterDAY.

Now, I have a problem. Since I used up my supplies setting up those traps, my house is kinda unprotected toNIGHT. If I live to see tomorrow, then I'll have a more proper greeting for for any fanged home invaders, but I'm not sure if I'd last that long.

Now it's getting interesting......

[Loslote]

So Nilp is all but outright asking for a Ranger protection here, and also suggesting that if Mac was evil, the wolves would have attacked him last Night. I feel like this could easily be a wolf play, but I don't know that I would expect it from Nilp in particular. Really confusing stuff!

[Loslote]

Also, I don't buy that this clears Mac. I didn't catch the bait yesterDay, I don't think it's out of the question that the wolves might have missed it or decided to look elsewhere. Nilp didn't post enough otherwise for this to ping on radars, I think. I'm tentatively believing his claim, but I don't think it was as effective as he'd hoped.

[Loslote]

Also, if the wolves HAD killed Nilp, it would have been painfully obvious that Mac was a wolf.

[Loslote]

Nilp - there are so many things that could catch a wolf pack's attention. Like BG's seer comments. Or basically any arbitrary suspicion OR trust towards someone. Just because you weren't Night killed for weirdly suspecting Mac doesn't mean Mac is innocent - if he's a wolf, he has three fellow wolves who might have received even weirder suspicions.

Yes, thank you, Lommy!

[Blind Guardian]

Is it just weird to me that no one is taking Nilp as a Beast Hunter seriously?


Shasta - I keep flipflopping about him but I think BG's death is a big point in favour of his innocence.


I reread through the Day 1 and 2 posts and came up with some reason that Shasta was a ranger but even I don't remember what that was. No one should trust anything I say at this point. I was wrong about Nog, I am probably wrong about Formy..

And I don't even know what to think about Nilp except bad timing. No one was suspecting him of being the BH and now he's outing himself? I don't know man...

And I DEFINITELY don't trust that Nilp actually used his trap on himself last Night (if he even is the BH).

Also lots of people (almost everyone) thought that either Pitch or Nilp were the Cobbler. If Nilp is the BH and Pitch is the Cobbler than the Seer is still out there (and very well hidden).

[Huinesoron]

And I don't even know what to think about Nilp except bad timing. No one was suspecting him of being the BH and now he's outing himself? I don't know man...

Yep, this. I have no idea what's going on with him.

We're at, what, 3.5 hours to DL? Does anyone have any thoughts on who we should a) Mediumize or b) boost a vote for? Personally I still don't trust Form, and agree with Lottie that Mac looks suspect. Kath... I don't know, I keep going back and forth on her. It would help (me) if she posted more than once a page. :D

As for who I trust... Lommy looks pretty innocent, but I don't like her focus on Rikae, because so do they. Greenie I still think good things of.

And then there's Nilp, who (per #386) seems to have noticed the same number issues I did, and is trying a neutered version of the Seer-reveal gambit. Except he doesn't actually no anything, so how would that work? And the whole execution seem so Cobblerish that... I just don't know.

(Pitch I just vaguely mistrust, Legate I can't get a read on, Sally hasn't posted enough for me to read, and... is Shasta still alive? Not sure there, either.)

hS

[Loslote]

And then there's Nilp, who (per #386) seems to have noticed the same number issues I did, and is trying a neutered version of the Seer-reveal gambit. Except he doesn't actually no anything, so how would that work? And the whole execution seem so Cobblerish that... I just don't know.

If he's legit, then he's essentially trying what I did D1, but he can actually control where the trap is. He's bluffing that he doesn't have the trap toNight, but he might have the Ranger save, so it's dangerous for them to target him - but they might take that chance anyway. It's all bluffs and double bluffs, and it might help confuse the wolves.

As far as who to Mediumize, do we want to draw attention to Greenie if we think she might be the Seer? We might want to avoid Mediumizing her so we don't put a target on her back. I'd want to see Mac or Legate lynched toDay, I think, so maybe someone who's voting for them?

[Huinesoron]

As far as who to Mediumize, do we want to draw attention to Greenie if we think she might be the Seer? We might want to avoid Mediumizing her so we don't put a target on her back. I'd want to see Mac or Legate lynched toDay, I think, so maybe someone who's voting for them?

Good point on Greenie. I'm happy to gun for Mac, and will take your word on Legate.

We need three out of four votes, and we have no idea when they'll all start voting... is everyone here going to be available at DL?

hS

[Nogrod]

If Nilp was the Cobbler, that would have been a perfect act at the perfect time. Whether the Ranger would fall on it, is naturally another matter. But it would have been a nice try anyway - and if succesful, really genius.

I haven' read the actual Thread yet (well after my last visit here couple of hours ago), but I have one preliminary suggestion. If Greenie looks a) Seerish and/or b) good & reasonable, then let's vote for someone who votes the same she does. Greenie tends to vote early because she tries to go to sleep in decent hours, but us empowering her might draw too much unwanted attention to her (if she is the Seer).

But yes.

Are you all going to be around the DL, or are we in any hurry with this?


EDIT: X'd with both

[Loslote]

I’ll be around at the DL, and I agree with Mediumizing someone who votes the way Greenie does.

[Huinesoron]

If Greenie looks a) Seerish and/or b) good & reasonable, then let's vote for someone who votes the same she does. Greenie tends to vote early because she tries to go to sleep in decent hours, but us empowering her might draw too much unwanted attention to her (if she is the Seer).

This is a good plan (assuming she doesn't vote somewhere we really don't like - even Seers can go wrong).

She's commented on Nilp now (#392) and has essentially said 'I absolutely believe he's innocent' (but more subtly). To have not even shown a little wariness, I think she has to be either Seer or Fake Seer. (Not necessarily Evil Fake Seer, but with that many reads already...)

Edit: I can be here at DL (but would love to not need to be!).

hS

[Loslote]

Boro - sorry to hear you've lost power! I'll be here at DL and if you're not around, I can tell people to stop posting. I can even say who died if it's clear, or tell people to wait to hear from you before joining us if one of the tiebreakers come into play (I'm pretty sure I know the rules, but I wouldn't want to get it wrong!!)

[Huinesoron]

So Mac and Legate have both posted, hooray!

-Mac's is a fairly plain list-post. If he's a wolf, the rest of the pack are probably split across the list. Form-Legate-Kath would fit that description, and is the players who've been most suspected over here.

-Legate... looks bad, for the specific reason that he's ignoring Nilp's "we're in trouble tomorrow", and in fact seems to be trying to make sure everyone else forgets it. He's adamantly against any other BH revealing; well, the wolves would love all the Gifted to keep their heads down and give it One More Day. (Also, it lets them carry on the suspicion against Nilp.)

hS

[Loslote]

-Legate... looks bad, for the specific reason that he's ignoring Nilp's "we're in trouble tomorrow", and in fact seems to be trying to make sure everyone else forgets it. He's adamantly against any other BH revealing; well, the wolves would love all the Gifted to keep their heads down and give it One More Day. (Also, it lets them carry on the suspicion against Nilp.)

I agree. Legate is giving off all kinds of bad vibes imo.

[Huinesoron]

I agree. Legate is giving off all kinds of bad vibes imo.

Nilp agrees with you. Is that good or bad? :eek:

hS

[Loslote]

Shasta and Nilp have both said they'll be voting early, Shasta maybe for Mac and Nilp maybe for Legate. I'd be comfortable Mediumizing either of them, more so Nilp.

[Loslote]

Nilp agrees with you. Is that good or bad? :eek:

hS

I think good. I believe his reveal at this point.

[Nogrod]

Let's hope for a decent combination to appear - like Greenie and Nilp voting for Legate and then we giving an extra-vote to Nilp.

I'm not going to hang around all the rest 2½ hours but I'll be around every now and then to catch up - and will certainly want to see the DL.


I'm not sure about Nilp's reveal, but it is true there is little reason for anyone but the Cobbler (possibly) to fake it. Maybe I need to check also the details of the Trap Maker-role before making any further statements.

But that's actually not that important. I mean the first thing for us should be aiding a wolf being lynched - even if we had to empower another wolf to gain it.

[Boromir88]

Thanks Lottie. I’ll let you know for sure in about an hour.

I guess the world is telling me now is a good time to pass the time reading a book.

[Loslote]

I think it was actually a pretty good trap. Accuse somebody in a seerish way, and if you're right, have the wolves come for you and take one down. Bonus points if the wolf that goes down with you isn't the one you accused, since the accused one would sure be toast the next day.

Convenient for you that the trap you keep praising seems to clear you......:rolleyes:

Also, I don't like that Kath is now "suddenly" understanding why people suspect Form. Feels like a wolf trying really hard to pull the lynch back to an easy but innocent target when it's starting to swing in the direction of a packmate.

[Boromir88]

And just as I posted that, laid down with a book...

Power is back

[Blind Guardian]

I’ll be around at the DL, and I agree with Mediumizing someone who votes the way Greenie does.

There is a very large chance I won't be here at DL.

[Huinesoron]

There is a very large chance I won't be here at DL.

How do you feel about voting Nilp when you have to go? We'll still have 3 votes that can put the Medium elsewhere, but we'd have your vote on a good candidate if someone else Hadd to vanish unexpectedly.

hS

[Loslote]

How do you feel about voting Nilp when you have to go? We'll still have 3 votes that can put the Medium elsewhere, but we'd have your vote on a good candidate if someone else Hadd to vanish unexpectedly.

hS

I second this.

[Blind Guardian]

I'm going to go for a run while it's still kinda cool out. I'll be back in like an hour to vote. And yes that's probably what I'll do if nothing changes.

Also what is it with Pitchwife's pings?

[Nogrod]

And just as I posted that, laid down with a book...

Power is back
Sounds a lot like life. :)

[Boromir88]

Sounds a lot like life. :)

Hehe :p what's particularly funny is I was just pulling the covers off my bed to wash when it went out. So, they're still lying on my floor and I have lost the initiative to go wash them now. Although, I will be battling with myself to "might as well wash them, because there's no covers on my bed and why put them back on when you took them off to wash them!" :rolleyes:

[Loslote]

Maybe I didn't. Maybe I had other reasons for saying it. Would that make me a wolf?

Is Rikae building to a reveal.......?

[Huinesoron]

Is Rikae building to a reveal.......?

It certainly looks like it. Ugggh, it's too late for Seer Outta Nowhere.

hS

[Loslote]

It certainly looks like it. Ugggh, it's too late for Seer Outta Nowhere.

hS

Seer outta nowhere with a wolf dream would help an awful lot, though. And the BH can trap their house if they come out now, which means we either keep the Seer another Night or we get a second wolf out of the deal. That's not bad for a Seer.

[Huinesoron]

Seer outta nowhere with a wolf dream would help an awful lot, though. And the BH can trap their house if they come out now, which means we either keep the Seer another Night or we get a second wolf out of the deal. That's not bad for a Seer.

Oh, it would be super useful, and possibly the best thing for the village. I'm just tired and absolutely can't search Rikae's posts to see if it's true.

hS

[Nogrod]

I really don't like this.

I'm willing to be trapless for a NIGHT. The narration will make it clear if he's the NW anyway, and the Ranger could act accordingly.

[Loslote]

What don't you like about it? I thought it made sense - if they lynch the NW toDay, the NW only knows the BH, so that's the Gifted they could block, and the (still hidden) Ranger can still protect the BH, so it wouldn't be a problem for the Gifteds. How did you read it?

[Nogrod]

I guess Nilp was quite a young man back in the days we played more, but I presume he's grown up in the last ten years or so. A 14-year old might think that it is of the utmost importance to all, that his own (least important) gifted-role stays alive in a situation where the village might fall in one or two Days.

Then again if he's a) the Cobbler, or b) the NW willing to change Threads to empower himself, then the quote would make perfect sense.

[Nogrod]

How did you read it?
He tries to draw the Ranger off from any real gifted so that the Wolves get a free kill - which they need if they want to bag this thing toMorrow.

[Nogrod]

I mean either that, or then he's just being oddly self-centered. Why waste Ranger's protection on him aka. why to come forwards in the first place as there was no real danger???

[Nogrod]

He tries to draw the Ranger off from any real gifted so that the Wolves get a free kill - which they need if they want to bag this thing toMorrow.
Actually: he tries to draw the Ranger off from any innocent person (not just gifteds) so that there will be a 100% kill the next Night while the Ranger stands unemplyed at Nilp's door.

[Loslote]

I still find Kath's insistence on focusing on Form instead of any of the more recent suspicious people HIGHLY suspicious.

[Loslote]

As for Nilp, I get the vibe that he's either trying to create chaos - bluffing and double bluffing the wolves to try to keep them from killing their top choices - or he's just overwhelmed and not thinking the role through all the way. I don't get a wolfy vibe, and I absolutely could be wrong about that, but for now I trust his reveal.

[Loslote]

I'll probably vote for Form, unsurprisingly. I still have concerns about Kath, Legate, and Mac, and Rikae's posts toDay have piqued my interest in them, but I'd rather stay on track rather than having surprises this late in the day.

Sally, no! Look at who's pushing Form! :mad:

[Nogrod]

As for Nilp,
...
I don't get a wolfy vibe
Me neither.

But a very cobblery one.

(Or NW'ish the most.)

[Nogrod]

Well it took three Days to start this time... the villagers speculating on how to dictate us who to vote - only muddying the waters.

The downside of a dead thread...

[Huinesoron]

Greenie has voted Legate. I'm currently fine to empower another Legate voter.

hS

[Nogrod]

Well, you know that I'm okay with empowering the next person who votes for Legate (aka. Greenie just did that and I'd be happy with it).

But if you are going to hang around to the DL anyway, let's not haste as something drastic might still happen.


EDIT: Naturally, X'd

[Huinesoron]

We've also got Rikae and Kath voting Form. I'm very much in two minds about all three of them right now. :)

hS

[Loslote]

I'd be more than happy to Mediumize someone who votes for Legate. Now we just need the village to get off the Form bandwagon, because I'm increasingly convinced he's an innocent the wolves have been pushing for a while now. :mad:

[Nogrod]

Form is one who's really hard to read. Could be a twice fellow-saved wolf or an ordo whose being framed because he's playing in an awkward manner. Could have even been the Cobbler - but at the moment my guess on the Cobbler is firmly Nilp.

[Blind Guardian]

So are we still voting Nilp?

[Nogrod]

I'd look for a third Legate-voter right now. :D

[Loslote]

What if we Mediumize Form?

[Nogrod]

So are we still voting Nilp?
Hopefully not.

Let's see.

[Loslote]

It would definitely be a show of support, and he voted early, so it would have a bigger impact.

[Nogrod]

The game is getting intresting... Sally goes for Form.

[Blind Guardian]

Between Form and Legate, I'd rather see Legate die right now.

[Nogrod]

It would definitely be a show of support, and he voted early, so it would have a bigger impact.
If it comes close, the earlier vote might be a difference maker.

So I promise to go along if needs be.

[Nogrod]

Between Form and Legate, I'd rather see Legate die right now.
I think we all do.

We'll just think, whom to empower.

And want to see, if anything wild happens.

[Blind Guardian]

Greenie - Legate
Form - Legate
Kath - Form
Rikae - Form
Shasta - Form

[Loslote]

I just feel like it's so painfully obvious Mac and Legate are wolves together. :o

If anyone needs to vote early, I think go ahead and vote Form and the other three of us can overrule if need be closer to the deadline.

[Loslote]

Shasta voted Form. Mac and Legate will as well, almost certainly. Unless they decide to try to vote Pitch instead to make themselves look better. We need the village to get itself together. :mad:

[Blind Guardian]

And now with time stamps:

2038: Kath - Form
2058: Greenie - Legate
2102: Rikae - Form
2110: Form - Legate
2110: Sally - Form
2117: Shasta - Form

++Form

Feel free to change :) I have to go

[Blind Guardian]

2038: Kath - Form
2058: Greenie - Legate
2102: Rikae - Form
2110: Form - Legate
2110: Sally - Form
2117: Shasta - Form
2122: Lommy - Form

Not looking good for Form

[Loslote]

That's 5 for Form, with two more almost guaranteed. I don't think we can swing this anymore. I'm going to vote to Mediumize Form anyway, just so we, the Dead Thread, can express our displeasure with the living's vote.

++Form

[Huinesoron]

Shasta voted Form. Mac and Legate will as well, almost certainly. Unless they decide to try to vote Pitch instead to make themselves look better. We need the village to get itself together. :mad:

I mean, they're pretty together - they just disagree with us. :)

It's at 5 on Form now, and Brinn says 'Form or Pitch'.

hS

[Nogrod]

Well, if it turns out a Form-wagon, we can at least make our feelings known by empowering a vote that goes not for Form (it would be somewhat funny if we empowered Form).

My own slight reluctance to empower Form is that he's still quite on the top of my list of possible wolves. But the main point of course is giving one extra vote to someone for lynching, not the vessel (person) through whom we give it.

[Nogrod]

Btw. Huinesoron!

If you're going to stand by up to the DL, so let's please not vote yet.

If something drastic happens we can "cancel" the DT-vote by voting something else.

[Loslote]

Form is going to be the lynchee either way, if we empower Greenie we draw attention to her, if we empower Form we are essentially saying "we think you made the wrong choice toDay", which I think is a message worth relaying. He's going to die anyway, so we wouldn't be potentially saving an evil, just sending the message that lynching Form toDay wasn't a choice we agree with, and we would have preferred to see them lynch Legate.

[Nogrod]

With "drastic" I mean things like reveals or something.

Otherwise I'm okay with empowering Form.

[Huinesoron]

Well, if it turns out a Form-wagon, we can at least make our feelings known by empowering a vote that goes not for Form (it would be somewhat funny if we empowered Form).

My own slight reluctance to empower Form is that he's still quite on the top of my list of possible wolves. But the main point of course is giving one extra vote to someone for lynching, not the vessel (person) through whom we give it.

Exactly this, though less strongly, and with added 'a Day 3 village shouldn't vote a landslide!'. I strongly suspect we've just seen a lupine mass-vote, though I don't think most of its members look wolfish.

But in the interest of solidarity :

++Formendacil

(Don't worry, Nog - the Dead have retractable voting!)

hS

[Boromir88]

Form is chosen. He's reached the threshold of 3.

[Loslote]

Ah, but it locks in when we hit majority+, so looks like we're empowering Form. Sorry Nog, I know you wanted to wait. :o

[Boromir88]

The good thing is. I'll have the narration done right at the DL. The bad is it leaves you all still with 28 minutes to wait :D

Edit: Which will include the displeasure of the dead, uttered through Form's voice. :-p. It shall be interesting.

[Huinesoron]

Form is chosen. He's reached the threshold of 3.

Oh yeah that.

Sorry!

But frankly, when ten villagers vote for someone, I think we should support them just to highlight how dumb that is.

hS

[Loslote]

Exactly this, though less strongly, and with added 'a Day 3 village shouldn't vote a landslide!'. I strongly suspect we've just seen a lupine mass-vote, though I don't think most of its members look wolfish.

But yes, this bandwagon reeks of misguided villagers with wolves pushing it from the beginning. Kath, Mac, and Legate were the ones who kept pushing up Form whenever anyone else brought up Mac or Legate, and I'm fairly convinced that those are three of the four wolves.

[Loslote]

Edit: Which will include the displeasure of the dead, uttered through Form's voice. :-p. It shall be interesting.

Perfect! Thanks, Boro. :D

[Nogrod]

:(Form is going to be the lynchee either way, if we empower Greenie we draw attention to her
That I have been against from the very beginning. So agreed.

if we empower Form we are essentially saying "we think you made the wrong choice toDay", which I think is a message worth relaying. He's going to die anyway, so we wouldn't be potentially saving an evil, just sending the message that lynching Form toDay wasn't a choice we agree with, and we would have preferred to see them lynch Legate.
Well, like I said, I still suspect Form to a degree (a lot more than many others), so that was my "unhappiness" to empower Form himself, just in principle. But as there are already two votes for Form, it's a deal then as to whom the empowered vote goes is much more important at this stage than who gets empowered.

But in case of some seer-reveals or something I'd still ask hS to hold his vote.


EDIT: I clearly X'd all the stuff that actually meant something...

[Loslote]

But frankly, when ten villagers vote for someone, I think we should support them just to highlight how dumb that is.

I can't believe Brinn is the only person who's even mentioned that we learn NOTHING from the votes, since everyone voted for the same person. :mad:

[Huinesoron]

But in case of some seer-reveals or something I'd still ask hS to hold his vote.

Sorry again. :-/ (Bit ironic, that: me misremembering the rules...)

I can't believe Brinn is the only person who's even mentioned that we learn NOTHING from the votes, since everyone voted for the same person. :mad:

UH-HUH.

It also makes Greenie Stand out a lot, whichever way Form flips.

(How did we just see 6 votes in 10 minutes - half an hour before DL?!)

hS

[Nogrod]

From Boro's comment on Form complaining in the narration that even the dead disagree, I got the vibe he's innocent.

But who knows?

It would be quite nasty blow to our self-esteem if all the village was right and we were totally wrong. Especially if Greenie and Form were the wolves who tried to prevent the lynch, but even the two other wolves gave up on him and decided to throw him under the bus.

:eek::rolleyes::smokin:

[Loslote]

The Last Will and Testament of Formendacil, Late of Village CXV

The soon-to-be-deceased bequeaths to the surviving Ordos and Gifteds the following message: you're terrible.

If it helps, Form, We The Dead completely agree. :rolleyes:

[Nogrod]

From Boro's comment on Form complaining in the narration that even the dead disagree, I got the vibe he's innocent.
I guess he answered that himself in the Thread.

Its a cold comfort we were right in this as there are still only ordinary villagers down.

[Huinesoron]

Still hoping he's being a Cobblewolf, but... yeah.

hS

[Loslote]

I guess he answered that himself in the Thread.

Its a cold comfort we were right in this as there are still only ordinary villagers down.

Boro, why do the special roles in your games never die? :p

[Loslote]

Honestly, the village had a really good shot at lynching a wolf toDay, and most of them decided to just coast. Which is a really bad move, because obviously the easy choice is going to be the one the wolves are pushing! Now we're in serious trouble toMorrow, and an early vote from an innocent basically dooms the village. We just have to hope the innocents wake up and realize we're already in the end game.

[Nogrod]

Now we're in serious trouble toMorrow, and an early vote from an innocent basically dooms the village. We just have to hope the innocents wake up and realize we're already in the end game.
Well, if they pull themselves together, we can still aid them through toMorrow with our vote. Especially if the Ranger has brains not to stand by Cobbler-Nilp's door the whole Night and maybe manages to save someone.

[Boromir88]

The Dead

Boro (Town Recorder) - murdered by pack Night 1
Huinesoron (Villager) - lynched Day 1
Loslote (Villager) - killed by pack Night 2
Nogrod (Villager) - Lynched Day 2
Blind Guardian (Villager) - killed by pack Night 3
Formendacil (Villager) - lynched Day 3

Welcome Formendacil!

Take comfort the dead believed you...erm for the most part! It wasn't fully out of spite and anger towards the lynch mob. ;)

And seriously HOW IS THIS HAPPENING IN MY VILLAGE AGAIN!

I TRY TO DESIGN A GAME THAT DOESN'T TURN INTO A BATTLE OF WOLVES VS. GIFTEDS AND THIS IS WHAT I GET

/Rant.

Well not so much a rant or anger, I just seriously can't believe after that 2011 Lake Town game...the exact same thing is happening. :rolleyes:

[Formendacil]

Hey, Dead People! What's up?

[Loslote]

Hey Form! Sorry the living were terrible. :o:p

[Nogrod]

Welcom Form!

You'll surely find yourself more comfortable here. So sit down and relax - and maybe skim the thread at some point if you wish (even that is not mandatory).

You'll find a few soulmates here who understand your feelings - having gone through the same thing.

[Huinesoron]

Hey, Dead People! What's up?

Hey Form, we* believed in you!

*Maybe not me personally, but I did vote to empower you!

Well, if they pull themselves together, we can still aid them through toMorrow with our vote. Especially if the Ranger has brains not to stand by Cobbler-Nilp's door the whole Night and maybe manages to save someone.

Unless someone Gifted does something pretty spectacular, every Day from now on is 'lynch or lose'.

hS

[Formendacil]

Not gonna lie... I'm probably going to read through theDead Thread and see if I was as universally suspicious here too. Gotta hand it to the Wolves, there's a lot of room to hide in that bandwaggon.

[Loslote]

Not gonna lie... I'm probably going to read through theDead Thread and see if I was as universally suspicious here too. Gotta hand it to the Wolves, there's a lot of room to hide in that bandwaggon.

I personally spent the whole Day tearing my hair out and watching as Kath, Mac, and Legate pushed you up every single time anyone tried to bring up Mac and Legate as suspects. Wildly frustrating, and I absolutely can't believe no one else saw it. :o:mad:

[Nogrod]

Well not so much a rant or anger, I just seriously can't believe after that 2011 Lake Town game...the exact same thing is happening. :rolleyes:
It's no ordinary Lady Fortuna -stuff, it's the Fates, like in the Ancient Greece!

[Formendacil]

I personally spent the whole Day tearing my hair out and watching as Kath, Mac, and Legate pushed you up every single time anyone tried to bring up Mac and Legate as suspects. Wildly frustrating, and I absolutely can't believe no one else saw it. :o:mad:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say killing off someone analytical was seen as a bonus when the Wolves were making their Night 2 kill. ;-)

[Blind Guardian]

I am so sorry Form

[Nogrod]

Btw. the narration kind of did us a favour - and there's the other side of the coin as well.

By stressing the uneasiness we had here, Boro gave the impression that we empowered Form because of him getting into the gallows (which is partly true, of course). So if the wolves have not suspected Greenie of seership (and she is the one), then we have nicely ducked any connection to Greenie with our vote-empowerment and thus gave the wolves no aid in discovering that.

The downside then of course is, that the villagers also think like that and pay no attention to the fact that we were actually and actively trying to get Legate lynched - and that they probably should do that.

[Loslote]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say killing off someone analytical was seen as a bonus when the Wolves were making their Night 2 kill. ;-)

Haha, I'd hope I have a reputation for being a good wolf hunter! Using Rikae's metrics, I think I'd have good perception but bad persuasion marks. :p

[Loslote]

The downside then of course is, that the villagers also think like that and pay no attention to the fact that we were actually and actively trying to get Legate lynched - and that they probably should do that.

They need to look at who was pushing Form all Day yesterDay, and that should lead them back to our suspected pack. Here's hoping there's a villager left who can figure it out. :o

[Nogrod]

Here's hoping there's a villager left who can figure it out. :o
Cheers for that!

And congrats for getting it right!

You know, miracles can still happen? :rolleyes::)

Okay. It's coming 1.30AM here, so I'll get to sleep now.

See you during the Night.

[Formendacil]

I'm catching up on the Dead Thread backlog (and I've never really been part of one) and, while it is somewhat irrelevant, I want to go on record saying how NICE it is to have WW where you aren't suspicious and/or faking it. This is such a happy place to be.

[Blind Guardian]

I agree, Form. I'd like to vote that we have a Dead Thread every game, even if the Dead play no role. Just to chat.

[Boromir88]

I'm catching up on the Dead Thread backlog (and I've never really been part of one) and, while it is somewhat irrelevant, I want to go on record saying how NICE it is to have WW where you aren't suspicious and/or faking it. This is such a happy place to be.

Indeed! I don't know how to describe it...

But after Cobbler-G55 and Rikae went after eachother in Nog's game. They were the first 2 dead players in here and proceeded to amicably work together, even being on different sides.

I mean granted so far this is just dead villagers, but it is a uniting force you don't get as a "live" player. And just my luck these are the only games I'm immortal in and never die :(

[Blind Guardian]

Some day I want to mod a game. :)

[Loslote]

I agree with you guys, Dead Threads are a fantastic addition to the game! It would feel wrong to have a game without one now.

[Formendacil]

I would definitely have played more WW games in the last decade, had I been anticipating this warm, cozy happiness as part of it--while the THRILL of the game is certainly in the not knowing and adrenaline, it can be weary, and that has definitely factored in my sparse playing the past several years.

(Also a factor was the job, and I think it is a great sign that the job I am in now doesn't drain me so much that WW feels like too much work--the fact that it's been quiet and I've been able to overplay at work is just a bonus).

On a far less cozy note, I did not do the math as a Living player as to how dire things were getting from a numbers standpoint, but the fact that Nilp drew attention to it was factor in my trust--though, as ye Hallowed ones have made me more aware, his timing is equally devilish if he's a Cobbler.

Kath, Mac, and Legate seem a fairly concensus "core" Wolfpack. Pitch's throwaway Day 1 vote for Kath remains an argument in favour of him being the 4th, but that's probably just me being biased in favour of my own arguments. Shasta, Sally, and Rikae all look darker to me than they did, but I sort of think Shasta might be the Ranger, Sally a railroaded, last-standing, Ordo, and Rikae the Wolf. I agree with my Living self that Greenie and Lommy look innocent--and I like the Greenie is a Seer arguments here. I guess that would leave Brinn as the last Ordo in my reckoning, which feels right.

If Nilp is NOT the Beast Hunter, then I incline to slot Brinn into that role--or may she's the Ranger and Shasta the Beast Hunter.

[Loslote]

I'm not super confident as to who the last wolf is, but I'd guess Sally or Lommy, maybe Rikae. I think Shasta might be Gifted, though Shasta always seems to be the Ranger, so that would be lucky indeed! If Greenie is the Seer, she'd better hope for protection toNight, I would kill her if I was a wolf. Pitch I think might legitimately be the Cobbler.

[Huinesoron]

I agree, Form. I'd like to vote that we have a Dead Thread every game, even if the Dead play no role. Just to chat.

I agree with you guys, Dead Threads are a fantastic addition to the game! It would feel wrong to have a game without one now.

I agree! Though in games where we don't get any vote I think there would be a fair bit more frustrated yelling... :)

I can confirm that being a wolf in a Good-dominated Dead Thread is super relaxing too: you're still running a deception, but since you know they're ignoring you anyway, you can play it as pseudo-Cobbler. I thank Cobbler55 for guiding me to the True Path last game. ^_^

(Speaking of which, I wish people would stop prodding at Rikae's 'epic' comment and remember that they were the Good Cobbler who started the whole Brinn-vote thing. Of course they're going to enthuse about it!)

hS

[Nogrod]

Kath, Mac, and Legate seem a fairly concensus "core" Wolfpack.
Yes - and still our consensus actually worries me a bit. I mean when one starts to believe in some solution one's critical powers take a considerable hit; when one falls in love with one's explanation one easily stops thinking all together.

Rikae, Shasta and Lommy (or even Greenie) could be the core of a wolfpack as well. Or well, almost any combination.

Although I hope Greenie really is the Seer as it would both make sense and be encouraging if we got it right (and the wolves didn't) - even if that also makes me a bit worried that the wolves might then be after her pretty soon. On the other hand, Greenie is such a smart person that she might actually pull that trick in front of our eyes and be a wolf.

But we should be wiser come Day4.


I'll join the consensus also in the other topic: Dead Threads are a very good idea. Not only because of the nice atmosphere, but also because everyone can play the game to the end and no-one is dropped off the game (without a possibility to discuss with others about it).

[Loslote]

Speaking of Greenie, who do we think will be joining us in a few hours? I think Greenie and Rikae might be Seer-targets, and I think Rikae is the obvious person to be protected toNight after their hinting yesterDay, which might unfortunately make Greenie a safer choice for the wolves. They might also go for someone quiet like Shasta, though.

[Loslote]

But we should be wiser come Day4.

The Living need to be very cautious toMorrow. One wrong vote from an innocent and the wolves can pile on. Really I think we need help from the Gifteds, either a save or a Seer reveal, the village just doesn't have any room to get it wrong.

[Huinesoron]

Speaking of Greenie, who do we think will be joining us in a few hours? I think Greenie and Rikae might be Seer-targets, and I think Rikae is the obvious person to be protected toNight after their hinting yesterDay, which might unfortunately make Greenie a safer choice for the wolves. They might also go for someone quiet like Shasta, though.

I think it's likely to be one of those two, and if it isn't we need to wonder why. The other choice, of course, is Nilp... ;) I don't think we'll see him here; with how erratic he's been, the wolves will have to wonder if he's a) the Cobbler, or b) laying traps outside his own door toNight.

Could Rikae's blatant hint have been an attempt to divert attention from Greenie's more subtle one? If we go with the theory that BG was killed for literally saying 'will I dream?', then Rikae may think the wolves are going after really obvious targets.

hS

[Loslote]

I do think that in this game, with the two protective Gifteds, it has to occur to innocents that there should be at least one person setting themselves up as obvious "bait". I did it, BG kind of did it, Nilp claims he did it (all of us with limited success). So I wouldn't be surprised if Rikae decided to make themselves the "bait" for toNight.

[Blind Guardian]

https://imgur.com/a/jUqgGYJ

Edit: image didn't load. Gimme a minute.

Okay I don't know how to get images to appear in the thread.

Oh well, attached is the voting tally. Left is sorted by name. Right is sorted by time stamp.

[Huinesoron]

Oh well, attached is the voting tally. Left is sorted by name. Right is sorted by time stamp.

From which we can see immediately how bad (or unlucky?) this village has been. Five of the eleven survivors have only voted for people we now know to be innocent; if we include Nilp on the 'confirmed innocent' list, we find only three of them have voted for potential baddies. Greenie hasn't had any of her votees killed yet; Mac and Pitch voted Pitch and Kath on Day 1. That's it. Of the 32 votes cast by the current survivors, 23 were cast on now-known innocents.

hS

[Blind Guardian]

Honestly, looking at this is pretty apparent that Greenie is the stand out.

Literally everyone else voted for Form.

My guess is Legate is a Wolf. Greenie is the Seer. Greenie is dying tonight.

Unless the Ranger is paying attention and caught what we caught. If the Ranger goes after Nilp and not Greenie...

If Nilp is a Wolf then that was a good play to distract the Ranger. If Nilp is the BH imma be mad.

[Nogrod]

Of the 32 votes cast by the current survivors, 23 were cast on now-known innocents.
Okay.

So let's assume the wolves don't straightforwardly involve themselves in bandwagons which end up lynching innocents - because they know which bandwagons to avoid - but they will take part in some, especially on D3 when there weren't too many to be of a different opinion.

So four wolves making three votes each is 12 votes. I would say it goes something like 40-60 for wolves joining succesful innocent-bandawagons (them voting an innocent who is lynched 40% of the time the most, and nicely hiding behind a non lynched candidate 60% of the time), as a conservative estimate. It could be 1/3 vs. 2/3 as well - which would be even worse from the villagers' POV.

Looking at the craziness of D3 voting we might need to bring that percentage to 50-50 as the wolves had no other option but to comply (basically Brinn's complaint could be read as well as a frustrated wolf's cry of "doggone it" than an innocent's).

With that ratio we'd have the wolves giving 6 votes to others than the known innocents, so meanwhile the rest of the village (8 people) have given votes to "not-known innocents" only three times!

8 innocent villagers 3 votes each - and only three of those votes have gone to someone else than a now known innocent!

:eek::(


They really need to pull themselves together now.


My guess is Legate is a Wolf. Greenie is the Seer. Greenie is dying tonight.
I'm afraid that might be true. And if what happens toNight is because of:
If the Ranger goes after Nilp and not Greenie...

If Nilp is a Wolf then that was a good play to distract the Ranger. If Nilp is the BH imma be mad.
then I'm going to be a little frustrated as well... :confused:


So thumbs up for the Ranger!

[Nogrod]

Naturally, it all could go down a totally different route.

Let's say Nilp is the Seer who panicked - or for some other reason - decided to go on some dashingly daring game? That is not totally out of question.

Or maybe Greenie is just a really smart wolf who fools us all? (In that case I'd say she'd deserve victory)

Maybe Lommy's lament at the end of D3 - which felt quite convincing - was actually her plot trying to steer away those few who might have suspected her on D4, or at least make them hesitate just enough to save her from the ropes?

Or: while my reason keeps reminding me, that Legate is the most believable wolf-candidate, but in the back of my mind there is this nagging voice saying, "Maybe you're wrong? Maybe he's just short on time (as he has said) or something and the rest is just conjecture?".



Well, four minutes...

:smokin:

[Blind Guardian]

I reloaded the living thread as say the red ++Legate and was no way the Wolves lynched her and then realised that was us Dead. I gotta go calm down...

[Nogrod]

I reloaded the living thread as say the red ++Legate and was no way the Wolves lynched her and then realised that was us Dead. I gotta go calm down...
:D:cool:

[Blind Guardian]

*throws hands up in the air*