Help with youre Fan Fictions

[Helkahothion]

Many of us downer write fan fictions and I think that none of them can do without help or research. I thought it would be a good idea to place all questions in one thread so that Barrow Downers could assist. Just so that we don't have 30 threads with questions.

[ May 20, 2003: Message edited by: Helkahothion ]

[Helkahothion]

Okay, I myself need some help. In my fanfiction, one is an elf and another is a human who has been thought Sindarin. So it would make more than sence if part of the conversation in it is Sindarin. The only problem is, that I don't know Sindarin. smilies/frown.gif I need someone that can help me translate parts of conversation from my Fan-Fiction. I will be forever in you're dept.

[Niluial]

My Problem: I have read Tolkien’s books many times over ands over again. I am writing a Fan Fiction and it always ends up being exactly the same as Tolkien’s work(e.g. I write about 4 chapters and when I reach chapter 5, it is a copy of something from Tolkien’s works, ok that doesn’t make sense). Does this happen to any others or is it just a Niluial-ish thing? How does one stop this habit?
P.S. Helkahothion you know I would help, but I am not at all good at speaking Sindarin maybe I can help next time!

[Helkahothion]

How does one stop this habit?

I don't completly get what you mean. As you said earlier, it did not make any sence. You write the same as Tolkien would write? Could you give me an example. If it is just the style of writing it is not a problem, if you keep quoting, I might help, but I do need a clear view on you're problem.

[Durelin]

Helky, your first priority should be your spelling. Let's not try Elvish till you get through that. Also, I believe it would be quite hard to translate it into Sindarin only. I think you'll have to slip Quenya words in there every so often.

Niluial, it is impossible not to start sounding like Tolkien since he is the 'king' of fantasy like Elvis is the king of rock and roll. I mean, all books out there have a connection with Tolkien, and good fantasy is written in a style similar to Tolkien. This is just a fanfiction you're talking about, right? So, you don't even have to worry as much as if you were writing a book. Just get a good plot as seperate from any story you know of, make up character names, and start writing! I like creating my character's personalities and the exact events as I go along. I find it comes out best that way. Sometimes you find a new idea in which you have to change something from before, but I don't know if you'd gotten that idea before if you had layed out the events and character's and their behavior. Well, anyway, just advice. I have thought about fanfiction...I might...but, I think I want to shoot for a book. Yep, I'm shooting big...

[The Barrow-Wight]

Far too often in fan fictions, the author simply puts themselves into a fantastical character and injects them into the existing stories of Middle-earth. This almost always results in something unoriginal and unbelievable. There are thousands of pages of text across the internet that complain of such writings, the most common being the infamous 'Mary Sue'.

I recommend trying something like I did when I wrote the beginning of my two fan fictions (yes, I know, they haven't been continued for a year or more). Find a hint of a story in the LotR and write about that. For my tales, I got one main character out of the genealogies in Appendix C and another from the Tale of Years in Appendix B. Very little was written by JRRT about either one, so I am free to do with them as I will.

Also, spellcheckers are wonderful things, but proofreading is even more important. Have someone else read your writings critically. Ask them to spot the errors - then fix them. People will enjoy your stories better if they don't have to wade through poor spelling and confusing punctuation and grammar.

Hope that helps a little.

[Gilthalion]

For the writing of THE HOBBITS (the finest Middle-earth Fanfiction yet written, in my oh-so-humble opinion), I found it necessary to start an actual bulletin board forum on EZBOARD.

There was a thread for each chapter, the first post of which was the first draft of the chapter. Reader/Editors were invited to post comments, corrections, and glorious praise to each chapter thread. I was then able to edit arcane spelling and grammar errors, to make Middle-earth corrections recommended by those more learned in the lore than myself, and to make other improvements in style and substance. This took nearly 18 months, since I was not able to work at it as diligently as I should have liked.

Since it was a Middle-earth fanfiction, I saw no point whatsoever in avoiding the Professor's style. The readers are hoping for more of what made them fans to start with! Point in fact, I tried to emulate Tolkien's style and perspective as much as I was able, choosing THE HOBBIT as the particular mode best suited to the work. In Mithadan's TOL ERESEA fanfictions, he seems to write in a style closer to parts of THE SILMARILLION. Should I ever finish my novel on the forthcoming Millennial Kingdom, some may (hopefully) say it reminds them of Tolkien, but I will not be trying to consciously duplicate his style in a non-Middle-earth fiction.

You will find that working hard on a Middle-earth fanfiction should be very good practice for whatever writing you may ever want to do. Please do not simply think, "It's a fanfic, so spelling, grammar, logic, internal consistency, and canon lore do not really matter." It certainly does matter to the person taking time to read it!

THE HOBBITS has gotten a number of favorable reviews. It is 27 chapters long, but I hope you will find it worth the read and a decent example of what a long form fanfiction can be. You can read this LORD OF THE RINGS sequel from the link provided in my signature.

[Sapphire_Flame]

The only problem is, that I don't know Sindarin. I need someone that can help me translate parts of conversation from my Fan-Fiction.
Helka, I would be more than willing to assist you with translating into Sindarin! I'm pretty used to the language, having used it quite a bit in my own fanfic. And, if you need a proof-reader, I could help you out there, if you want. PM me or something if you want me to give you a hand! smilies/biggrin.gif

[The Barrow-Wight]

When making a Tolkien Fan Fic it's important that your Elvish is Tolkien Elvish, and not some conglomerate mish-mosh someone has invented.

[Nurumaiel]

Helka, I'm a bit hesitant to offer my assistance with translating anything into Sindarin. My sources are worthy (from COE, not Grelvish), but I don't know if I've learned enough to actually be entirely accurate with the grammar, etc. However, if you would still like my help, I am available.

Niluial, I, like Helka, would be most grateful if you could expand on what exactly your problem is. Like Durelin and Gilthalion said, if you find yourself imitating Tolkien's style, that's not a bad thing. But if you mean that your plot seems to close to his, your characters, or the like, I could try to give you some help.

[Beren87]

Reader/Editors were invited to post comments, corrections, and glorious praise to each chapter thread.

As Gilt. pretty much said, there is NO substitute for peer editing.

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Ah, Gilthalion! What a wonderful editing idea! I'm jealous that you thought of it first smilies/wink.gif.

Fanfiction is something I think about often, and thus far have never gotten around to. However, I am a pretty good proofreader and like to think I have a pretty good grasp of Sindarin vocabulary (though I freely admit my grammar's atrocious). Not to mention, I have quite a lot of spare time, so I can be available for second (third, fourth, or fifth) opinions.

And when I finally do start that fanfic, maybe someone will owe me a favor or two.

[Niluial]

Sorry to confuse everyone! To clear this all up, I did not mean I write like Tolkien (I wish!!) but I land up copying the story line! Like with one of my stories (which is in the bin now) I kept landing up with Trees that talk and everything sounded like middle-earth and it was not in middle-earth smilies/frown.gif, and some of the characters were just like the ones Tolkien made just with different names….. smilies/frown.gif, sorry to confuse you all!!!

P.S. Thank you The Barrow-Wight, Durelin, Nurumaiel your replies did help!!

[ May 18, 2003: Message edited by: Niluial ]

[Helkahothion]

I have another question:

When my first FF was done, some people wrote reviews. On the Downs and on Fanfiction.net, people had written that it was bad, because I used a lot of conversation. They said that it was not Tolkien. I feel that it is only good, not to copy his style. I write my own style and tolled the people to judge the story on how I made it, and not on how Tolkien would write it. Do you think I handled fare? Oh and Saphire, the PM is in the mail smilies/wink.gif

[The Barrow-Wight]

I dislike conversational fan fictions so much that I stopped accepting them for publishing on the Downs. Reading a story with no description is like listening to talk radio in the dark. The style requires no grammatic skills and such authors typically throw type onto the page as the idea pours out their head. There is seldom continuity, never a true plot, and always pages and pages of nothing said.

There are exceptions in literature (JRRT's "Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth" comes to mind), but so far such exceptions haven't been submitted to our proofreaders.

[Helkahothion]

No no no, it is not as if I was talking during the complete FF. I just use more speach than Tolkien. Just to speak others minds. Since the characters have no big secret's they speak a lot wich each other, so there for I can't think you can compare it with Tolkien.

[Sapphire_Flame]

Seeing as how I've read and reviewed your story, Helka, I think I should comment on this. Some people are such total purists that they think all LotR fanfics have to be written in Tolkien's style. That's a bit strict, because there are almost no authors that can write exactly like Tolkien without effort; those that try tend to have fics that sound forced and without emotion. Everyone has their own style. If these people flame your story because of that, then they don't deserve to be recognized. I've gotten a few reviews like that as well, and these are the ones I ignore. It only gives these hyper-perfectionists more attention than they deserve. You handled it well in saying that you weren't trying to copy Tolkien, and were only writing in your own style. If they can't realize this, they aren't worth listening to.

In my own, personal opinion, I thought your story was very well done. Interaction between characters, verbal in particular, is important to developing the story, and you handled it very well; some authors get bogged down with dialog, and the whole story gets overwhelmed with conversational scenes. You balanced out the dialog with some really brilliant fights and action sequences. I saw nothing wrong with your technique. I hope this was helpful (if a bit long...)

Oh, and I got your PM, by the way. smilies/biggrin.gif

[Niluial]

Just a question but has anyone in here actually finished a real fanfition book? If so, how long did it take?

P.S. Mr Barrow-Wight I sent a PM to you.. please will you check your box and if possible could you reply smilies/biggrin.gif thank you!!

[mark12_30]

Niluial, if your question is intended to mean, 'have you written something long enough to be a book and finished it,' my answer is 'Yes' for The Fairy Wife, and 'Almost' for Bolco.

I started out thinking that The Fairy Wife could be done in about ten chapters; it ended up being 24, but at least it's done. It was hard to finish (although not quite as hard as killing off some of the charaters-- that took weeks, before I could face it.)

But finishing Bolco's story is far harder; I've been saying "gotta finish Bolco's story" for two years now! The problem is, once you make friends with a character, when you finish the book it's almost like saying goodbye. Not easy.

The other side of it is, if you "discover" a story instead of actively "inventing" it, then you have to let that process go along at its own pace...

[Manardariel]

mark12_30, I started to read The Fairy wife, and I really enjoyed it! smilies/smile.gif

I have an idea for a Fanfic -had it ages ago-and I was wondering if it had potential. Problem is

1)It´s a diary and
2)It´s sort of a retelling.
The idea was basically Galadriel´s diary, starting in Valinor somewhere during the making of the silmarils. It would tell the whole Noldor-banning thingy, and the crossing of Helcaraxe, ending after the two groups of the Noldor meet in ME. Do you think this has potential and/or makes sense? Answer here or PM me. Thanks! smilies/smile.gif

edit: Yay! My new Avatar´s working! Like it?

[ May 19, 2003: Message edited by: Manardariel ]

[mark12_30]

Manardariel,

Thanks for your kind words!

I think your idea has lots of potential.

The diary form has been a bit worn out, and I think it's difficult to do well, or keep the readers' interest for very long. If you can simply tell the story in the first person-- rather than a dear-diary format-- that would be fine.

Galadriel is a complex character, and I think the story from her personal viewpoint could prove very interesting indeed. Internal conflict is what makes a character-driven story work, and external conflict (i.e. action) is needed for a plot-driven story. Having both makes the story interesting to a broader audience. In this case, you'd have both.

The nice thing about doing fanfiction online is that you can get plenty of feedback and the story can be refined and revised easily. (Revisions are good for the soul as well as the story, I think.)

So yes, it sounds like a fine idea. Dive right in as soon as you feel ready to!

General information to all interested writers: there is a very funny, very well-written fanfic over at Moon Leters under Green Books at TheOneRing.net. It's called "TheFanficLounge (http://greenbooks.theonering.net/moonletters/creative/files/c050102_03.html)". There are a few PG moments, but they're mostly there to make a point. It's a fun way of being introduced to many fanfic-writing mistakes that you DON'T want to make. (Interestingly, the story is written in script form, which is another thing I consider best avoided... perhaps the author's implied tongue in cheek?) I heartily recommmend it to everybody interested in writing.

[ May 19, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Oddwen]

My brother and I started a huge parody of the book Nov 2001, and we're still not finished with it. We have let weeks go by without writing it, however. You've got to learn to discipline yourself. smilies/tongue.gif smilies/smile.gif

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

That was very interesting, Helen. I put it in my favorites list for future reference. Thanks a bunch for the link!

[mark12_30]

Glad you liked it! I was addicted to it for several weeks and reread it many times. The part about Boromir casually rolling the fizzing can under the couch gets me EVERY time, as does Elijah's line about spiders, and the whole concept of the Mary-Sue room just about kills me, and... oh, I'd better not get started.

Manardariel, FYI check out this BD discussion if you haven't already:Galadriel's past (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=003312)

[Helkahothion]

Just a question but has anyone in here actually finished a real fanfition book?

Not yet. The stories I make are part of one big epic tale. They are now tolled mostly from Bordarigorn's point of view. But after he dies and before he was born, that is going to change big time. I think I am going to write until Anuion dies or goes to Valinor. I don't know a thing about what is going on in there so Ill stick to there. I don't know when Anuion will die though. As an elf, I can just continue making stories till I die. So there must be a part where I stop. When I am satisfied with the stories. Ill rewrite them and make em fit in one order. That will be the book. But I'm taking it nice and easy. smilies/biggrin.gif

Mark12_30: Edited. Thanks for your interest. (Note Mithadan, I spelled your in the right form smilies/smile.gif)

[Hirilaelin]

I am currently in the middle of writing another adaption of "The Hobbit," as a play, and dang, is it hard. Should I leave out Beorn? The entire mountains thing... How will the logistics of the dwarves escape from Thrainduil's hall work? And how the heck will I get a flaming dragon to work on stage? (Which is where I really want this to go.) However, I am nowhere near any of these points.

What do you think of this idea, and how do you feel about some of these problems? If you want to read what I have so far, you can go here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=003102).

[Lossentilien]

Maybe you could just use smoke machines. In the other stage version they just made the dragon out of wire and paper mache I think.
Well done to everyone who has the patience to write fan fics etc, I'm in awe, seriously. I always loose interest in my own writing so it never gets anywhere.

[Helkahothion]

always loose interest in my own writing so it never gets anywhere.

I have a great trick for that: Let somebody else continue a bit for you and send it back. The person does things different than you and you will be annoyed be that since it is YOUR FF and it should be written in YOUR style. SO you edit and go on. I found that reawakes your interest for the story. I don't know if it works with others.

[Lossentilien]

Hmmm......good idea. I'll just have to try it....and find someone who I wouldn't mind reading anything I write. Thanks though. smilies/biggrin.gif

[Helkahothion]

Hmmm......good idea. I'll just have to try it....and find someone who I wouldn't mind reading anything I write. Thanks though.

*cough cough me cough cough*

obvious enough? smilies/smile.gif

[Sapphire_Flame]

smilies/rolleyes.gif No, that's fine, Helka. Don't get too obvious now, you might hurt someone.

I got some of that stuff translated for you, BTW. Check your PMs. smilies/biggrin.gif

[Lossentilien]

Oh blast! Now I'm going to have to get in gear and actually write something, aren't I?
Well, I wasn't hinting, but if I do get round to writing something, I'll send it to you Helka. smilies/biggrin.gif

[elven maiden Earwen]

Help I need a good Urk-hai name. The Urk-hai resembles Ugluck. Any ideas?

[Hirilaelin]

How about: Grignash

[Sapphire_Flame]

elven maiden: Go to the Barrow Downs name generator and stick in all your friends' names. You'll be bound to get a good orc/Uruk-hai name from one of them! smilies/biggrin.gif

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

If you want you can use my RPG orc's name, Oghurn smilies/tongue.gif Just try going through a few RPG discussion threads that in any way involve orcs and you'll be sure to find a fitting name. smilies/smile.gif

~Menelien

[Lossentilien]

Names are another problem for me, but I usually just look through an elvish dictionary until I find something meaningful for the character or that just sounds pretty. But for Uruk-hai the name generator probably is best.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

I'm having a problem with my fanfics (all are not done.) They always come out too stereotypical or corny or anything of the like... when I'm done wih one, would somebody help edit it for me? smilies/smile.gif Of course, I may never finish, but I hope I will... someday... smilies/tongue.gif

~Menelien

[Helkahothion]

I'm availeble for people that need reading done. If anybody has trouble with parts they want to write, I would love to do it. GOTO, gimmie a call if you need one. Or just send the thing to mailto:helkahothion@hotmail.comhelkahothion@hotmai l.com</A>

Greetings,

Anuion

[Hirilaelin]

I'm gonna take you up on that offer, I'm having trouble with a scene in the play...

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

Me too, as soon as I get at least one chapter which is okay enough that I'm not embarassed to send it...

~Menelien

[Niluial]

Ok so a few of you have actually finished writing a Fan Fiction! I loved The Fairy Wife, I read it twice! But everyone is so god at writing! I can be good at times but I find that sometimes I start to make the book boring with my boring words! I mean Lawyers they can be very boring people and everyday while I study to be one my vocabulary gets more boring. What I mean is I write the first chapter, I notice I have terms in that chapter that lawyers use…. And these terms become I part of my speech!!! Now really who would like to read a book full of Law terms?

[Helkahothion]

I'm gonna take you up on that offer, I'm having trouble with a scene in the play...

Dialog? Anyway, send it trough smilies/biggrin.gif

Everybody: If you send something to me, I might ask you to send it again. I have hotmail and my spamfilter is on the maximum level and since I don;t kow your e-mail adresses by heart(a real shame) you end up in the spam mails and I might accidently delete it.

Now really who would like to read a book full of Law terms?

Maybe if you write something Tolkien related, it will go away.

Just kidding smilies/biggrin.gif. I think that your problem is that you write in to many modern speech. The trick with writing is that you imagine yourself inside the story.
Make a character that resembles your own personalety. It is much easyer to write that way and make them react, sinc eyou are in the story yourself. I always call a character like that an insider. It came in very handy in my first story. Maybe you should try it.
If all means fail, send it to me and I will mess it up very good so you don't even WANT to write in those terms anymore smilies/evil.gif

Let me know if it works.

Greetings,

Anuion

[Hirilaelin]

Dialog? Anyway, send it trough

Yup. Dialog. How did you guess? smilies/biggrin.gif

[Gilthalion]

I did indeed finish THE HOBBITS (see signature for link) and it took 18 months and lots of help, as posted earlier. Be sure to check the reviews first. I'm interested in THE FAIRY WIFE, and it is on my reading list! (Someday, someday!)

Practice, practice, practice! You are working with the greatest author of the 20th Century! You could do a lot worse than practicing with Professor Tolkien!

[Helkahothion]

ALRIGHT!!!

My second one is done. Just look at fanfiction.net under the lotr related stories. Action/adventure the descendant of Beorn. Or if that is too much trouble, PM me for the link. My second treasure already in the box. Time does fly people smilies/smile.gif

Suilad,

Anuion

[Manardariel]

Yay! My first FanFic is on! And on the downs! Please check out "Morwen´s Second Child" and I can´t wait for the reviews. smilies/smile.gif smilies/smile.gif gosh, I´m so proud!

[Ainaserkewen]

Hi, I've sent in the biggining of my new fanfiction. I'd like to ask if it would be "politically correct" in hobbit fashion, for Fredegar Bolger to get married 17 years after the party. I need a fairly well know friend of Frodo that doesn't go away to be my groom. If not Fredegar, any suggestions?