The Tolkien Coming of Age Club

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I know there are quite a few "I was reading Tolkien before the average Barrow-Downer was even born!" site members - this thread is for us! Since I don't know the average site age, I have just picked 18 as the legal coming of age. So how many of you have been reading LotR and other Tolkien books for at least 18 years? Please tell us how long ago you first read the book(s); if you like, your age at that time and what prompted you to read Tolkien.

I'll make a start: I first read 'The Hobbit' and 'Lord of the Rings' 29 years ago. My trusty 1973 Ballantine's paperback edition is still serving me well, by now heavily underlined and still carrying the dedication written by the boyfriend who gave them to me way back then! (No, only the books survived; the boyfriend has passed from memory, becoming legend, then myth! smilies/wink.gif ) The back cover has the Tolkien quote:
This paperback edition, and no other, has been published with my consent and co-operation. Those who approve of courtesy (at least) to living authors will purchase it, and no other.
That was necessary because of the illegal printing of the book by Ace earlier, which started the LotR craze in the USA at that time.

How about the rest of you "geezers" out there?!

[piosenniel]

It was 1969. I was studying Classical Greek and Linguistics in college, and very much enjoying the adventures of Homer's heroes in the Iliad and especially the Odyssey. Wondering why there were no great, long, whacking good adventure stories to read like these in English - something with flowing prose and poetry, mythic heroes and villains, thrilling battles, high romance, and a great love for the use of language.

A professor threw a much read copy of 'The Fellowhip of the Rings' on my desk one day, saying, 'Here! Try this. It's pretty good. You might enjoy it.'

Have been thoroughly hooked ever since!

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Twenty-two years ago I was visiting my father in Toronto. His bookshelves were always stacked to overflowing, and he was very interested in what I was reading.

I had just finished the 'Screwtape Letters' by C.S. Lewis, had just polished off everything by Lloyd Alexander. He thought a moment.. "Lewis, eh? Well, you're really too old for Narnia and besides, I don't have them. Here, I know -" and he swiped a Ballantine edition of the LotR from the bottom shelf. "See if you like this."

A day and little sleep later, Dad couldn't get more than monosyllablic grunts from me, over breakfast, all that visit I merely surfaced to snack on his very fine brie and sip Canada Dry. It was hard to get me to come to the dinner table, I was still reading on the way as I barely missed tripping over furniture. He laughed, "I think she's hooked!" By the second night he made me put the book down now and join us for dinner my dear. It was torture, the longest dinner ever!

Eventually, I was so slow in returning that borrowed set he gave them to me. They were lost in a flood, but stood me well for the first 14 times I read it. Since then, I've had rotating used bookstore copies that I've given away at various times, much as Dad gave me his. Once again I have to replace my copy of The Two Towers.

-Maril

[Mithadan]

Thus far, only Pio has me beat. Thirty years (1972). I was 11 years old and had been devouring science fiction. I decided to try fantasy but doubted I would like it so I chose to begin with a "classic". I borrowed a copy of the Hobbit from school. Liked it but was unaware that there was a sequel for a while. I had just finished re-reading it about a year later when I came upon Tolkien's obituary in the newspaper.

[Child of the 7th Age]

I will be curious to see who posts here!

Let's see. I read the the Hobbit in 1961 when I was 13 years old. Then I read the Lord of the Rings when I was 15 in 1963. So that's 41 years for the hobbit and 39 for the Ring quest. I can remember reading the Lord of the Rings over the summer. I barricaded myself in my room and didn't come out for several days except for brief breaks to assure my family I was still alive! Those were library copies.

I went out and bought the LotR Ballentine books in 1966, my first year of college. I still have those, very used and dog earred. They are still useful, since the Tolkien thesaurus has page numbers that refer back to that edition. I also picked up a garage sale hardcopy --Houghton Mifflin--(Library edition?) of the Hobbit about that time, a "twentieth printing". It does not have any indication of year or edition. (Anybody know what this is?) It seems to be early since there's a note that talks about the changes made to the Riddle Game, and a comment about Bilbo's lies:

This departure from truth on the part of a most honest hobbit was a portent of great significance. It does not, however, concern the present story, and those who in this edition make their first acquaintance with hobbit-lore need not trouble about it. Its explanation lies in the history of the Ring, as it is set out in the chronicles of the Red Book of Westmarch, and it must await their publication.

sharon

[red]

Rats! If I had picked up The Hobbit one year earlier, I could post here. Oops.

[ September 17, 2002: Message edited by: red ]

[Raefindel]

I was 14 when I finally read The Hobbit to get a friend off my back. She wouldn't quit talking about it... that was 22 years ago.

[mark12_30]

As I recall I first read The Hobbit in 6th grade (11 yrs old, 1972) and then made it through the Lord of The Rings in Junior High (12 or 13 years old, I remember discussing Boromir's repentance with several good friends.) What prompted me: those same friends. Dell, Martha, Carla. And then when my siblings saw the books, they said, Ah, the kid has some sense after all.

So: 30 years ago for Bilbo, 28 years ago for Frodo. (Mith, we're tied!)

I still have my original Hobbit; alas, however, my matching boxed paperback trilogy mildewed, and I threw it out last year. I had the one with Tokien's watercolors on the cover, and the Heraldric banners and tiles and insignias on the (red) box. It must have been a ballantine version, I still remember that inscription.

I have read thoroughly thru the trilogy (I think) eleven times; parts of it (Pelennor Fields) many, many more times than that. I used to gallop thru The Hobbit whenever I had a spare day.

This was Junior High, and High School; I had embroidered Tengwar on my jeans jacket and several pairs of jeans. Nobody could read it except one close friend, and she didn't squeal.

[ September 17, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[mark12_30]

So, "Child" whups the rest of us at forty-one Hobbit-filled years. Anybody else out there?

[ September 18, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Selmo]

I'm of a simmilar vintage to "Child". 1947 was a good year.
I first read The Hobbit in 1962 and LoTR in 1963.
I was introduced to the works of Professor Tolkien by non other than Smaug the Golden.
My younger brother brought a copy of the hobbit home from his school. I pick up the book and found, inside the front cover, a map with a tiny red dragon on it. I love maps and dragons have fascinated me scince I was a young child. Here were both in the same place! I was hooked

[Mister Underhill]

I don't have as vivid a recollection of "my first time" as some, but I reckon I qualify. I ran into Tolkien somewhere along about '81 or '82. My uncle became aware of my interest in sci-fi and fantasy roleplaying games, and turned me on to the prof. I still have the old Ballantine paperbacks he gave me, though they're yellowed and falling to tatters now. They have the same commentary about unauthorized editions that Esty mentioned. I recently acquired a nice hardback all-in-one volume.

I got The Silmarillion fairly soon after its original release, but could never get into it. Only within recent years did I finally go back and tackle it.

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Mr. U, were you an old D&D-er? smilies/biggrin.gif My house in the late 70s early 80s was D&D central. On rainy days we had D&D conference calls.

We had the two essential elements:

1) a brilliant dungeonmaster with a natural flair for storytelling (my brother)
2) parents who were never home.

I remember when the Silm first came out. Everyone was so impressed that I would read that monster, and to tell you the truth, only that respect and a certain stubborn streak got me through it. To this day I find the Silm. useful, beautiful at points, but very obviously (and frustratingly) unfinished. The LotR is my first love.

-Maril

[ September 18, 2002: Message edited by: Marileangorifurnimaluim ]

[ainur]

I was eleven when I first read The Lord Of The Rings in 1970. The Hobbit came for me some time later that year. After wearing out my first set of paperbacks, my SECOND set contained the quote about "buying this and no other" though I always thought that was because of the mimeo-graph copies being sold on campus at Harvard. Anyway, my copies of The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales are both first American editions that I bought new when they came out and they are still in very good shape. I'm afraid they spend more time on the shelf and less time before my eyes than they should.

[Mister Underhill]

I was indeed a D&Der, Maril (actually AD&D, for those really in the know). I had similar fortuitous circumstances, especially starting out: a brilliant dungeonmaster with a natural flair for storytelling (Bless you, Karl L., wherever you are! Alas for the lost friendships of our youth.), and a friendly math teacher who let us use his classroom for lunch-period sessions.

I also had parents who didn't really get roleplaying but sensed that it was a much better hobby than, say, taking up smoking. It helped that they were both hippy types and open to idealism and fantastic ideas -- I was so effusive about the virtues of LotR that I finally even convinced my mom to read it.

[Cuthalion]

I, too, am among the venerable. In 1973, at the age of 15, I was introduced the wonders of Mr. Tolkien and I never looked back. I have read the Hobbit and LotR 23 times and counting, The Silmarillion 4 times. I have assorted others of his works also. I can also say, that thanks to Tolkien , I have been able to meet the love of my life, who also loves his works, I daresay, as much as I. Thank YOU, JRRT!

smilies/wink.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

[twinkle]

i found The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings in my mom's collection of books when i was ten...(1980)
i basically devoured every book we ever had in the house and eventually came across her old Tolkien paperbacks....
i didn't reread any of them until i heard the movies would be made and for some reason i seemed to remember Legolas and Boromir as two elves in the fellowship, lol....don't ask me why....
so only after 21 years did i manage to discover the true identity of Boromir again and then The Silmarillion in its entirety, i had started it along with the other books when i was ten, but evidently i wasn't up for it then....
and i have yet to complete Unfinished Tales...but i'll get around to it one day smilies/smile.gif

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

D&D being the original, "you are a Level One neutral elven thief, armed with a butter knife; you have a ridiculous name because you do not know how to play this yet; your character will be dead in 5 minutes; you are in a 10' x 12' basement of a somewhat gothic looking mansion. Okay, house. An eerie light appears ahead. Boo, man, boo I say."

I wasn't usually able to play, as the irish twin that was slightly older I was the 'authority on hand.' My characters frequently wound up dying creative, humiliating retaliatory deaths whenever I lowered the boom on such unfair rules as: "no smashing grapes into the wallpaper" and "no putting the skinny kid in a headlock just because his 10th level wizard just brought an avalanche down on everyone."

Heh. My brother was pretty good at fooling people who were expecting magic with ordinary hazards they never imagined.

-Maril

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

On another note, red I believe misses the 'cut-off' by only a matter of months. Who here is willing to bend the 'time zone' for practicalities sake? They do it for cities split across time zones.

All in favor say: Aye.

"Aye!"

-Maril

[mark12_30]

Engineers round up. Hi, red.

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Well, it's unanimous. smilies/biggrin.gif

[mark12_30]

So where is he? Er... red, I mean.

OK, all you Pillars of the community, where do we go from here? First of all, I think Mith should start selling Wizard staffs or walking sticks for all us old dodderers. Maybe a specially embroidered grey cloak. What kind of unifying insignia should we have?

And now shall we discuss the impact of Tolkien's work on the aspects iof our own lives over that span of time? (In your answer, do not neglect the impact upon the following areas of your life: habitual, economical, cultural, sociological, sociopolitical, historical, and coffee-drinking. Be brief, concise and specific.)

[red]

I am a SHE and I do not check the boards every hour, so please forgive me for not having responded yet, mark. I'll get to it later and edit this post here.

Ok, here's the story. My Tolkien adventures began in 7th grade (1985). I was not a reader then (I'm the Math/Science type). I only read when a book report was required and even then I grumbled about it constantly. The first 7th grade report was assigned and we could choose any book we desired. Our teacher had a big, circular table with piles of books if we needed help deciding. I looked over the selection and the only one that caught my eye was The Hobbit. Judging solely by the cover, it appeared to be the least horrible of all the choices. I took it home reluctantly and started to read it late one night. I was riveted!! The chapter about the giant spiders kept me awake all night in terror. (This is a good thing. Even now I partially judge a book by its ability to elicit some kind of emotional response be that fear or anger or sadness.) When I finished it, I was excited to learn that there were even more books about Middle-earth. I attempted to read LotR, but I got lost during the Council of Elrond and gave up for a while. It wasn't until my last year of high school that I picked it up again. That time I breezed through it, moved on to the Silmarillion, breezed through that... moved on to Unfinished Tales... you get the idea. I was hooked. I've lost track of rereads since then.

btw.. Nowadays I am an avid reader, but I still absolutely hate writing.

[ November 30, 2002: Message edited by: red ]

[mark12_30]

Profuse apologies, red! Welcome. Please be assured I meant no offense. ( At least I didn't capitalise your name. )

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

I on the other hand, do check them every hour, and am waiting with bated breath. smilies/smile.gif

-Maril

[Liriodendron]

Hi!! Count me in the ranks of Baby Boomer Tolkien fans. I read The Hobbit in 1971, my freshman year in high school, for an oral book report. I still have the hardback copy, with the green, blue and black cover. It cost $3.95!! I quickly read the Lord Of The Rings, twice! I recently read the Silmarillion this year, and though it was very informative, it was not the same thrill. Currently, I am listening to the BBC broadcast of the Hobbit on CD, from my local library. This is a fun "new" way to hear the story, including the songs sung and the funny voices. I'll take that walking stick!! smilies/smile.gif

[mark12_30]

Liriodendron,

I've finally decided to buy that BBC set of CDs for LOTR, basically for the songs. It's good to know that you enjoy them. I put together a list of celtic tunes to use with some of the LOTR songs, over vacation, but I'll take another set of tunes gladly.

Rimbaud, I followed your link to Keats. Thanks!! You inspire me; I think I'll go add a link to MacDonald into my sig.

Grace and peace, --Helen

[Liriodendron]

Hi Mark! When I read Tolkien, I have a bad habit of "gobbling" up the words to find out what's happening next. Often, the songs and poems are VERY briefly skimmed smilies/smile.gif Listening to the tape helps me take it all in, though between you and me, I think I could have done a little better on a couple of the songs! Oh, how I would have loved to have been the person to read and sing the songs for The Hobbit. How did the melodies come about? I really have a nice one in my head for the first dwarvish songfest sung low in the firelight at Bilbo's house. "Far over the Misty Mountains old".....Narating that book would have been some dream job!! smilies/smile.gif

[mark12_30]

How did the melodies come about? Do you mean for the ones on the CD? (I don't know.)

Have you seen this (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001961)
thread on tunes & songs?

[ September 19, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[mark12_30]

Okay, ancient ones:
In all of your long years, what's your most memorable public LOTR moment?

[Liriodendron]

Well, giving that Hobbit book report was a good moment. I got "all excited" and started talking real fast and animated, and ended the report by blushing beet red and having a major hot flash. smilies/smile.gif There is a woman in my central Indiana location who has a retail herb garden called "Hobbit Gardens". She has "new age" type programs and retreats, along with a lovely public herb garden and shop. It was exciting to see her at a garden fair last year and talk Tolkien (how did you like the movie etc.) in public, with a REAL LIVE person!! (an adult, no less!) smilies/wink.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

[mark12_30]

Just a couple of weeks ago, a co-workeer stopped by at lunchbreak, saw The Barrow Downs on my screen as I at lunch, and said, "How's Bilbo?" For some strange reason, I about died; I blushed, stammered and said, "Er, Fine," and changed the subject.

If I'd had my wits about me I should have said, "Buried on a hillside in Tol Erresea. How are you?" But I didn't.

[Bêthberry]

*huffing and puffing and favouring left hip*

Huh. All these steps down to the nether regions of the Barrow Downs. I thought I would never make it, what with my arthritis, my rheumatism, my gout, my--oh, wait a minute. This isn't the RPG fiction forum. Well, yes *clears throat and assumes normal voice*

I was half expecting to be the eldest but find I am not. (Nods respectfully to her elders, pio, Child, Selmo, Esty? ) Nor am I of standing as the longest-read. (Nods to Mithadan, Helen, Cuthalion, ainur and the Elders). My history of reading Tolkien somewhat resembles that of Rimbaud and Mr. Underhill--not necessarily in one fell swoop.

Back in second year of university (we don't call it 'college' up here), I read the trilogy and The Hobbit, sandwiching them between such massive eye-strains as Clarissa, The History of Tom Jones, The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman, Vanity Fair, Middlemarch, Dombey and Son and Great Expectations, The Fairie Queen, histories of Europe and of Canada from then till now, and Everyman and other medieval morality plays. (I'm trying to suggest that I nearly went blind reading that year and still read Tolkien.) So, as I was learning about western history's wars and narratives I was reading Tolkien's battles and mythology. But the reading was pure enjoyment and entertainment and true appreciation was swamped by eyestrain and carpal tunnel syndrome.

In later studies, I came upon academic Tolkien, his work in Old and Middle English, and then found On Fairy Stories. I was floored--truly knocked off my feet--by his perception, by his being able to get inside the narrative structure of fantasy in so perceptive a way. I remain to this day in awe of his intelligence and think far more highly of him than of any subsequent theorist in studies of narrative. I might have reread LOTR at this time and certainly debated the inclusion of The Hobbit in children's literature with friends. This was back in days when children's literature was not academically respectable. We didn't give a hoot for that.

Over a year ago I reread TH as background for a Tolkien RP with Gandalf the Grey and that led me on to LOTR again. Last November I reread it by my mother's hospital bedside as she underwent four weeks of excruciatingly painful tests and a horrifyingly rapid physical decline. About the same time that Frodo and Bilbo were sailing west with Galadriel and Gandalf, she was told to prepare for her own journey. I cannot begin to describe how this has affected my reading of Tolkien except to say with Child that it has assumed an astonishingly spiritual quality. I am only beginning to appreciate Tolkien's claim that he was writing about death. This past summer I was finally able to appreciate The Silm instead of viewing it piecemeal as encyclopedic sections.

So, what I would ask of all of you is: How has your reading or understanding of Tolkien changed or developed in your 18+ years of reading him?

Bethberry

PS. See--all those steps didn't wind me at all. smilies/wink.gif

[ September 24, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

[Raefindel]

I am an avid reader, but I still absolutely hate writing.


That goes for me too red! And as most of you have already figured out, I'm not very deep.

I don't seem to remember any public Tolkien experiences; I guess you could call me a Closet Tolkien Fan. I don't need people believing I'm any stranger than they already do.

As for any effects on my life, I guess the most profound effect would be the amount of time I spend on this board instead of with my kids. My son ,in particular, seems to believe that "Mom's lost it. "


Liriodendron, do you grow your own herbs? I love my herb garden. I have a wonderful recipe for herb bread you would like. My kids always beg me to bake it. If you have any recipes for herbed butter you could share I would appriciate them.

[Bêthberry]

Raefindel,

My son is thinking of retaliating by registering here so he can post with (against?) me. My daughter also views my time here jealously.
smilies/rolleyes.gif

Bethberry

[ September 21, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

[Raefindel]

Oh, I see! this is why we have formed an coalition (sp?) ahead of time! LOL!

[Liriodendron]

Yes! This Tolkien forum posting has added a new dimension to life! My daughter "wants her mother back" smilies/redface.gif, and my son and I "fight" over the computer! I'm not sure what my husband thinks, but he went to see FoTR with me and is somewhat interested in the story. He's too busy working himself to death smilies/wink.gif to read it. Maybe he'll get more hooked after TT !
Rae, I grow it all! Thank you for the recipe, I'll try it and let you know...You are very sweet! smilies/smile.gif I just read Tolkien more carefully now, looking for "goodies" I missed in my rush to find out plot. (in the past) I also read with an eye for a picture to paint or draw.

[ September 21, 2002: Message edited by: Liriodendron ]

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Lirio, me too! I've read the LotR a ridiculous number of times (about 30). But I was an artist, and was painting it in my mind, and so read it again and again and again..

[Liriodendron]

Yeah...How about Goldberry's Autumn washing day, or while listening to The Hobbit, I perked up at the description of Beorn's veranda, propped on wooden posts made of single tree trunks, still warm and filled with the light of the westerning sun. The sun makes the flowers that come right up to the steps appear golden. Little Bilbo sits on a wooden bench, swinging his dangling legs as Gandalf begins a tale. I can see that!! smilies/smile.gif

[ September 22, 2002: Message edited by: Liriodendron ]

[Raefindel]

To be honest with you, I only ever read the Hobbit once, 22 years ago. I remember very little of it. I really ought to re-read it, but I'm trying to struggle through the Sil right now.

[mark12_30]

Raefindel, are you taking notes about names and geneologies and places? That really helped me. --Helen

[Raefindel]

I should but it was tough just to get time to read it at all. I usually have to deal with a dozen interruptions and have to start the same paragraph over repeatedly. I gave it up for a good romance novel. smilies/eek.gif

[Miz Lobelia]

It's great to be on a site with so many people my age, or around my age!

I first read Tolkien 30 years ago, my freshman year at college. I had been seeing the books around (hard to miss - they were the first Ballantine papercovers with the pinks, blues, purples and bulbous fruit that Tolkien hated). I bought The Hobbit and was floored - and then I bought the three LOTR books and was absolutely blown away. I remember opening ROTK and thinking, "PIPPIN! Who cares about Pippin!" - I was so anxious to see what happened to Frodo and Sam. I must have read the first half of ROTK very fast, because when I reread the book I realized I had completely forgotten about the Paths of the Dead. Not to worry, as my second reading following immediately upon the heels of the first. I read LOTR six times my freshman year ! I must have talked about it a lot in letters and phone calls to my parents, since my Christmas gift that year was the HM 2nd edition hardcover set. (Daddy always said that any book reading more than once was worth getting in hardcover.) My brother gave me The Hobbit in hardcover for my birthday the next month. (The pages or that book are turning yellow!! Can I be THAT old?) Needless to say I read the Silmarillian the Christmas it came out (I was in grad school by then and that very semester wrote a paper for an epics class called "A Structualist Interpretation of the Lord of the Rings" which probably had poor Professor
Tolkien spinning in his grave and for which I still feel a little guilty.... smilies/rolleyes.gif

Marileangorifurnimaluim I have to admit to playing D&D as well, although to be honest it is usually some odd mixture of AD&D, Traveler, and whatever else the person running the game wants to mix in or make up. We used to play every other week , now we manage to play, oh, maybe twice a year..... smilies/wink.gif . My first character was a half-elf named Idril.

piosenniel, in Junior High and High SchooI I loved Homer 's epics and mythology in general - might as well have had 'future Tolkien Geek' tattooed on my forehead. Did you major in Greek? I majored in Latin , so was wondering.

[ September 29, 2002: Message edited by: Miz Lobelia ]

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Hm.. Goldberry's washing day. The images that most filled my mind were Old Man Willow.. all those fluttering yellow willow leaves.. and the falls at Faramir's hideaway.

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Hi Miz Lobelia, welcome to the Downs!

I loved D&D (okay, strictly AD&D but that's not what we called it), I spent hours propped up on my elbows listening to my brother describe his dungeons. I guess I don't have that "guilty pleasure" cringe because my Dad got into it one Thanksgiving at Grandmas (though Not my stepdad). He described one of my brother's dungeons as "positively eerie." Dad preferred lower level characters - level 6-8, retired at level 10 or 12 - because they were tough enough to survive, but weak enough to actually be killed, and they tended to face actual physical dangers such as dragons, etc.

smilies/biggrin.gif Maril

[piosenniel]

Hi Miz Lobelia!

Yes, I did major in Classical Greek, with 2 years of Latin as a requisite. (Carthago delenda est. - the sum total of what I remember of that language!). I studied demotic Greek and Hebrew in seminary for Grad School - & THEN, realizing the chances for employment were slim to none, I studied Nursing for gainful employment.

What did you do with your Latin degree?

[ September 30, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

[Miz Lobelia]

Alas, piosenniel, I finished all my course work toward a Ph.D in Classics - and have now spent 20 years in the insurance industry. Oh, well, Tolkien didn't stay in Classics either (on the other hand, being a professor of Anglo-Saxon is a lot sexier than writing insurance procedures smilies/wink.gif .

[InklingElf]

Wow. I wonder if I'll get to that level Miz Lobelia [i'm in 8th grade smilies/biggrin.gif ] ::sigh::

[Child of the 7th Age]

Miz Lobelia --

Glad to see you again. I have a Ph.D. in medieval history, so I spent time with Latin as well. And, also like you and Pio, the employment prospects seemed quite dim. I taught in a small college for several years, but my husband is also an historian and it was tough to find anything in the same town.

I ended up getting a second master's in librarianship, and that worked a little better. I've been head of a reference department in an academic library and book selection for Houston public library. Then I quit it all to become a stay-at-home, older mom.

Hang on Inkling Elf! You'll make it. I can tell from your posting in books that you have a head on your shoulders!

Sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[Tarthang]

This is my second attempt to post in this topic, for some reason the first wouldn't go through (a day or two after the initial start of this thread). So better late than never.

I've been reading Tolkien since the fifth grade (80'-81'). So that makes 22 years (I was 11 and am now 33).
We (my family that is) had seen Bashki's LOTR at the drive-in. It must've mad a large impact on me, as I found out my father had read the LOTR some years before. He still had The Hobbit and Fellowship of the Ring, which I immeadiately started to read. He sold the rest of the books to LOTR in a garage sale, and I can remember calling him a "dummy" for selling them.
I don't recall where I got the books to finish reading LOTR, but I had finished the trilogy by the end of sixth grade.
Somewhere during Jr. High or early High School I found a copy of Smith of Wooten Major and Farmer Giles of Ham in a box of books intended for a garage sale. I snagged the book and still have today (somewhere in several boxes of books of my own).
Apart from the Bashki influence, I also had an uncle who liked Tolkien. He had the pictures from the Hildebrandt calendars all over his room. From my uncle I learned there was a book called the Silmarillion. I was finally able to borrow it when I was 17 (it was loaned out to another uncle fro several years). I didn't get much from the first time I read it. I've since read the Silm a total of 3 times. Within the last two or three years I've started, slowly, reading through the Home series.
I read The Hobbit 1 or 2 times a year and LOTR at least once a year, since I first started to read Tolkien.

Like Mr. Underhill and Maril, I too was (am) a D&D'er (AD&D'er rather). I started playing in sixth grade, and were it not for Tolkiens influence, I'd have probably never discovered rpg's. The game had Elves, Dwarves and Hobbit's (despite the term "hafling" used by the gaming industry, they are based on Hobbit's, Iv'e yet to see a "hafling" description akin to Mckienans' Waerlingas). And then there are those nasty Orcs and Goblins as well.

[lindil]

better late than never.

I first read the Hobbit in 1977, right after SW came out. I was 11. as much as I liked SW I loved M-E.
They were selling the nice Tolkien artwork Ballantine editions at Safeway [and JEA Tyler's cool "Tolkien Companion' at grocery stores too! So I got all of my LotR there in short order. prob rad them an average of 1x/year. read Silm in HB at the end of the Year it came out. I did not really get it till the 2nd try.

That edition and the 1st Ed. UT were my oldest possesions [well UT is, I gave the Silm to my son in FL - age 13]

how did it effect me?

well in short, it caused me to revolt from suburban society and spend literally 1/4th of my jr and sr years of HS in the woods [ Northern Va. has some great old Oak forests.

After graduating I began looking into intentional communities, and in my quest for elvishness, studided Gurdjieff, Taoism and finally became an Orthodox Christian.

I played a little D&D and AD&D but it was never really my thing, compared to music or exploring the woods.

My best friend [whom i met as he spied me on the Bus reading FotR for the second time.

HE was reading it also, but I didn;t want to talk about it, it was way to private. It was my link to Truth. Well I let my guard down and we soon had everyone we knew reading LotR and Co. and we formed a Toliien group where we met and discussed various things such as Bombadil's nature [ we had an old timer come once who authoritatively declared that TB was a Maia
smilies/smile.gif .

Anyway we all had nick's. and I was Lindil way back then.

recall reading BoLT1 when it came out. I curled up in a out of the way corner of Sprinfield mall and was enraptured as I read about the Cottage of Lost Play. I recall that it was a snowy day and the vanm i drove up in crashed into the guard rail on I-95.

I re-read the above and BoLT 2 but fell away for years though i peeked in HoME volumes as they came out, and re-read most of the books more or less yearly, buying new pb lotr/hobbits and keeping the HB SILM/UT.

And I must confess I never returned the public Library copy of the Road goes Ever on [ which I loaned to Saulotus and need to get back].

Sadly I had a chance to buy the Red single Volume of LotR for 45 $ yesterday and din't
smilies/frown.gif .

I much prefer the aesthetics of HB reading.

Silm and UT in PB is not the same.

so 25 years for me.

my 6 yr old daughter is reading LotR w/ me this year and we just got to book 6.
I am ashamed to admit I almost always spend more quality time w/ the Legendarium than my prayer life or Tai-Chi. But somedays everything balances nicely.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I have so much enjoyed the many answers posted here - thanks, all of you! I like the potential the question about public LotR moments has, but this is the first place I've been able to get public about Tolkien's books. There are no avid fans around me and certainly none my age, so I'm glad there are plenty here on the site!

[Bêthberry]

Greetings Estelyn,

You are so right. smilies/smile.gif Reading all the witnesses to Tolkien takes us farther into understanding each other as a community.

I am intrigued by your statement, though, that none around you are interested in Tolkien. Could you speculate on this?

Would it be that there is little interest in English literature or in any literature among those around you? Or does his vision of the old mythologies not appeal to those who know the Niebelungenlied? Perhaps Tolkien's vision is out of step with the larger culture around you?

Bethberry

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Bethberry, you have me thinking about reasons there! I guess one main reason is that no one in my family or circle of friends is as passionate about reading as I am. Then those who do read have a completely different taste in literature (no fiction, or only murder mysteries etc.); and of course, living in Germany means that there are not many who read in English. There are German Tolkien fans who read either the original English books or one of the two LotR translations (one older, one newer, neither perfect and both a favorite topic for discussions!) - I occasionally read (and very rarely post) on a German board. But they are not in my immediate area and most of them are not my generation. I don't really have an answer and can only speculate about the reasons. At any rate, JRRT is not mass culture in Germany, though the movie seems to have attracted enough interest to put the books in prominent places in the bookstores. Maybe there are a lot of 'closet' fans??

[Liriodendron]

I mentioned in another thread, that I am going to hostess a JRR Tolkien night at our local library, (mostly to satisfy my curiosity to see who would come!). I think the time is right, with the interest generated by the movie. If it doesn't go over, I don't care, not much in life is a "glowing" success is it! smilies/smile.gif Actually, I can't imagine that nobody would come, this is the greatest author ever! smilies/smile.gif I want to talk to some live people. If I get a couple homeschool kids, then we'll just have fun. I guess I better polish up that Lembas recipie!

[Bêthberry]

Estelyn,

(Aside: It just struck me that I could nickname you "ET", which to me is a delightful nod to Fairie in another form and time, but it does lack the sense of dignity and calm decorum which I like in you. [I assume you know of the Spielberg movie.] smilies/smile.gif)

.... no one in my family or circle of friends is as passionate about reading as I am. Then those who do read have a completely different taste in literature.... At any rate, JRRT is not mass culture in Germany, though the movie seems to have attracted enough interest to put the books in prominent places in the bookstores.


I know that first feeling, for no one in my family when I was a child read as I did, and when I was working with literature, even though my parents supported my efforts, they never thought to read the novels I was working on. It means that there is this vast canyon between us and when I go home, there is part of me they will never know. Even when I joined a reading club, I found that the members' tastes ranged so widely that we could rarely generate a sense of common purpose, so that our discussions were often scattered.

What you say about the influence of the movie is intriguing, for suggests that film is, on one level, an international 'language'. Have you seen the movie in German or English?

Bethberry

[Estelyn Telcontar]

ET?? smilies/eek.gif smilies/biggrin.gif dignity and calm decorum?? smilies/tongue.gif Well, both are pretty close to fairy tales indeed!

Yes, movies are a kind of international language, and big productions = Hollywood and similar - are popular all over the world. I have seen the movie in both English and German (three times each!). The disadvantage in German is that it is dubbed - I much prefer to hear the original voices, especially when the accents are as interesting as in LotR. Fortunately, there are some movie theaters in big cities that showed it in English - I can't afford to travel to the States every year to see it there! smilies/wink.gif I am looking forward to the DVD, since I can choose either language there.

Looking back, I realize that it is strange that I never thought of reading the Hobbit or LotR to my children; since I loved it in English, I didn't read it in German, so they didn't get acquainted with the story until they saw the movie with me - in English, while we were visiting in the States last Christmas! *shakes head at the strange paths life takes*

[Bêthberry]

Estelyn,

Yes, I think you are right about the special importance of the voices in LOTR. I think they are a small clue in the movie as to the rich linguistic background of Tolkien.

You know what? I never read Tolkien to my kids, either, not even The Hobbit, although as infants and young children I did read poetry to them. Not modern poetry, but Renaissance, medieval, and OE, along with Dr. Seuss, LOL. The idea just never came to me; I must have assumed that Tolkien is for reading, even with the poetry and verse throughout LOTR. *shakes head now wonderingly, too*

Bethberry

[ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Now there's a topic I'd like to toss into the thread for general sharing! Since many of us 'geezers' are old enough to have children (or at least nieces and nephews?), did you read Tolkien's books to your children? Did/do they share your interest, even passion? Or have they developed a completely different taste in literature or do they perhaps even *gasp!* not enjoy reading as much as you do?

[Child of the 7th Age]

Estelyn --

No one has picked up on this, but I find your questions interesting:

Since many of us 'geezers' are old enough to have children (or at least nieces and nephews?), did you read Tolkien's books to your children? Did/do they share your interest, even passion? Or have they developed a completely different taste in literature or do they perhaps even *gasp!* not enjoy reading as much as you do?

I have a ten-year old and an almost fifteen year old. They are very different children.

My teenager is my "serious student." He read The Hobbit on his own a year or so ago, and enjoyed it. When he later tried Lord of the Rings, it just didn't click, athough he did like the movie. He does read fantasy, but his tastes are different than my own. Right now, for example, he is ploughing through a number of the Harry Turtledove books. The only fantasy author we share in common, I believe, is Philip Pullman whom we both find fascinating.

My daughter who is normally not a reader is my buddy in Middle-earth. She has auditory processing difficulties so language can be a challenge. However, she has taken both Elves and Hobbits to heart. She fancies herself an Elf, although mom sees her as a hobbit.

Her favorite character is Sam, and mom has obliged by securing her photographs to slash liberally over her walls. We are very slowly reading The Hobbit together, Alan Lee's illustrated edition. Perhaps, in a few years, she'll get brave enough for LotR. We've even collaborated to collect all six porcelain boxes from New Line Cinema, Department 56. Mom gets them on her bookshelf now, but Gabriela will 'inherit' them when she is older.

Aside from that, my husband scratches his head in puzzlement, and the rest of my extended family is totally blank. I do have a college roomate who shared many of these things with me years ago, and we are still close.

[ October 14, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[mark12_30]

Alas, no children... Neices and nephews have gotten a set of Narnia books, since that is what I started on first; (then, hungry for more, I moved onto the Hobbit, and I hope that they will do the same.)

None of them have seen the movie (why???) except, when one particular nephew visited my husband for a fishing trip, he saw the DVD and liked it. Heh, heh.

[Raefindel]

I attempted to read the Hobbit to my oldest, but he had no interest. My girls are kinda young for it, 8 and 6. They enjoy dressing up with me so I made them cloaks and we wear them when we hike.

[mark12_30]

Hail O Ancient Ones:

What's your favorite Tolkienian form of self-expression?

At the moment, mine's writing; RPGs, fanfiction, poetry; I know I'm not alone in that !

Maril mentioned painting. (Is any of this online, Maril?)

What other endeavors out there grow from Tolkien's planted seeds in your soul?

[Lostgaeriel]

My aunt gave me a one-volume edition of The Lord of the Rings for Christmas 1972 - I was in grade 5. I remember clipping Tolkien's obit from the paper the next year.

I think she had assumed that I had already read The Hobbit in school. But I hadn't. I remember reading the Forward and the Prologue and feeling quite confused. What were these 'Hobbits'? Then I jumped into the book and hardly came up for air.

My aunt gave me The Hobbit the next year, but it was a real disappointment to me. So 'childish'! (There's just no going back.) I think I've only read it the one time.

I read that first copy of tLotR at least once every year for almost 15 years - usually every summer. It fell apart and I replaced it with another one-volume edition which has the complete Appendices! My first copy only had the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen. So I missed out on a lot for many years. I haven't read the book as often over the last 15 years - life and all that. But since joining the Downs, I've read it again and studied it a bit. Such great insights posted here at the Barrow Downs.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I've been digging through old threads and found this amusing prediction, posted Feb. 14, 2001: I've got another prediction about the Movies. I'll (seriously) bet that these movies will cause a lot of 60's era people (and 70's) who were really into LotR (and many other "interesting" things as well!), but who haven't read them for years (for one reason or another), to blow the dust off, and go through the books again. In fact, I'll bet that not a few might pop into visit us on this site (In which case I know they'll be warmly welcomed).
The reason I think this is more than just a remote possibility is one, for the fact that these movies are going to be huge, and two, because from what I've read and heard in other places, hundreds of thousands of people in the 60's and 70's "got into" LotR (Some even TOO deep! They were spray painting "Frodo lives!" in the subways, etc...).
Draggonklaw (fka Eledhgil)
Well, seeing as how some of us fit into that category quite nicely, I'd say Draggonklaw was Malbethian in his prophecy! smilies/wink.gif

[Kalessin]

Some of the posts here are very witty smilies/smile.gif

Anyway ... I read The Hobbit about 28 years ago (1974-75 ish), and started reading Lord of the Rings soon after.

I didn't make it through Fellowship of the Ring, finding it hard work, dreary and uninspiring. I did like the lays, though, and contributed several pastiches of their style and content to the school magazine smilies/smile.gif. I also tried the Narnia Chronicles but gave them up, to my mind they seemed stilted and sanitised.

At that time, reading was like drinking water to me, a constant and unquestioned need and nourishment. I devoured The Earthsea Trilogy (as it then was) with a passion at age 11, and it still inspires me, science fiction in all forms, particularly Ray Bradbury (Golden Apples of the Sun etc.), the Gospel of St Matthew (which moved me profoundly), and I was fascinated by ancient myths and fairy tales of all kinds, and still have the paperback copy of the mediaeval Gawain I bought with my own money then smilies/smile.gif.

I had also read many completely unsuitable books from amongst my mother's rather eclectic and bohemian collection around the time I started 'big' school, such as Lady Chatterley's Lover, Brave New World, Lolita, The Naked Lunch, Ulysses and so on, which those who know me would say explains a lot smilies/biggrin.gif.

Maril, when D&D began in the UK, Steve Jackson (who later founded Eidos, the Tomb Raider company), opened the first White Dwarf shop near my school and for some reason I and my geeky friends ended up visiting their smoky flats and joining in with this crazy game that met absolutely all of my wish-fulfilment and empire-building capacities and requirements for a couple of years. I preferred being a DM to playing (never had any luck with those 20-sided dice, me) and created many an (in hindsight) Shire-like environment filled with hidden terrors. I don't really think the term anal retentive does the whole period justice smilies/smile.gif.

Still, in the end I forgot everything and stopped doing anything and became an adult until the age of 25 when I met my clairvoyant fiance, a "girl mad as birds" as Dylan Thomas put it ... but that's another irrelevant story smilies/wink.gif. All these years and a thousand philosophy books later and I'm back to being that awe-struck peddlar and receptacle of allsorts and gobbledegook I was from 11-16, without the excuse of puppy fat or the ability to go without sleep for more than a few hours smilies/frown.gif.

Same time next week, doctor?

Peace smilies/smile.gif

Kalessin

[ November 30, 2002: Message edited by: Kalessin ]

[Susan Delgado]

*sigh*
I miss the cutoff by a year and a half, but I've enjoyed reading all of your stories.

[Alphaelin]

Estelyn, thank you so much for inviting me to this thread. I am pleased that so many young people are reading the books, for whatever reason, but it is nice to know there are also people my own age on the site.

I was introduced to JRRT over 30 years ago by a crusty 6th grade teacher who read The Hobbit aloud to us over a period of about 6 weeks or so. I was hooked. I read my dad's copy of LOTR the next year and I used my first baby-sitting earnings to buy my own PB set (in a shiny gold box with Feanorian tiles). I still have all four volumes, yellowed, ratty and dog-eared. I don't want to get rid of them because of Tolkien's watercolors on the covers...

In HS, I was introduced to Tolkien's essay on Faerie by a Creative Writing teacher, and found The Tolkien Reader, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight and when it was published The Silmarillion.

Responding to another question in this thread: Yes, yes, yes, read Tolkien to children! The Hobbit is an excellent intro for kids to ME. (Just be sure to use funny voices when appropriate.) It won't guarantee interest - my older one wasn't interested in LOTR till she saw Orlando Bloom in FOTR smilies/rolleyes.gif - but it will give them a taste of Tolkien.

Happily, my younger one is enjoying TH for the first time - we just got to Laketown last night!

[mark12_30]

Alphaelin,

I had a boxed set with those tiles! My original! Alas, the Trilogy mildewed, and I had to toss it (weeps.) I still have The Hobbit. And I so loved those watercolors, and the box with the tiles on them. Keep them-- and keep them away from damp basements!

Hey, who has their old posters? Mine are all gone. Remember those gorgeous old Pauline Baynes maps that you can still find scans of online? Check out Rolozo, they're on there, nice big scans!

[Bêthberry]

Helen, the last time I visited certain friends of mine--the vagaries of the marketplace and the disperal to jobs across the globe sundering us--they still graced the walls of their home with framed posters of Middle Earth. Memory tells me they were in shades of grey and pastel pinks, although now I cannot recall quite why those should be the colours, nor who the designers were.

Welcome, welcome, Alphaelin. My old copies are also all lost to time and the indignities of multiple, forced moves. Yet my eldest will quite happily correct me if he thinks I've got something wrong from LOTR. My youngest, while in thrall to the movies, refuses to read LOTR because there are so few girls. She has taken to Smaug, however, like moth to flame.

Bethberry

[Alphaelin]

Hee, no I won't get rid of my original set until forced to by the ravages of time and wear. I keep it upstairs (far away from damp basements). smilies/smile.gif

smilies/eek.gif Just saw TTT yesterday with my dad & 'baby' sister (age 29). *Who* is that character parading around as Faramir??

[mark12_30]

I dunno, but if we can catch it, let's have a DNA sample taken and analyzed. I bet it's an impostor.

[red]

I'll do the DNA analysis for you. I kinda miss playing with DNA. I'm willing to bet you're right, mark.

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

My books are about ten years old, dog-eared and wrinkly-covered -- with the exception of The Hobbit, which I inherited from my mother and is more like forty (it isn't in such bad nick though) and UT which I only got two years ago. *shrugs* I might replace them if they become illegible, but there is at least another ten years of life or so left in LoTR and the Silm.

Imposters? Humbug, as long as the words and the maps are there... *thumbs up*

[piosenniel]

Just ran across a wonderful fellow at one of the local malls. He calls himself Sir Readalot. He's practicing for a marathon Tolkien read aloud record.

At the moment, he's 24 hours into a 96 hour non-stop reading aloud of Tolkien. He's doing The Hobbit right now - wonderful characterizations, especially Gollum and the riddle game. He'll head into the Trilogy next, and told me if I'll come listen to him on Monday and Tuesday, he'll put aside the Trilogy to read the Silmarillion aloud while I'm there.

Wonderful to listen to those flow of words and phrasings by Tolkien!

[Alphaelin]

At the risk of sounding like a 'Movies' forum post: My theory about the Character-Formerly-Known-as-Faramir is that it will turn out to be his evil twin, Clive.

Seriously, I think I have such a problem with this particular change from the books is that for some years I had what amounted to a crush of Faramir. Very strange, I know - but that is the best way to describe my feelings about the character.

I feel strong bonds to many of Tolkien's characters. Like so much else in ME, they are so fully-realized that they have a life of their own. I didn't know he was working with archetypes until I studied his work in literature classes, well after I had first read the books.

[mark12_30]

for some years I had what amounted to a crush of Faramir. Very strange, I know -
Neither strange nor unusual. You can fight my high school buddy (Dell, you out there?) for him, if you'd like, although she was a serious addict. I was an Eomer addict for quite some time, until I came to understand Boromir better.

[Bêthberry]

Those of us with a love of both faerie and the absurd favour Tom and Goldberry.

Helen, is this your way of getting a swoon forum going? What will Esty say? smilies/wink.gif

Bethberry

[ December 29, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

[Raefindel]

I always had a thing for Faramir, too. I can't tell you how disapointed I am with the movie character.

[mark12_30]

Seriously, Bethberry, you should know me better than that by now. I've been trying to get a swoon forum going for The Balrog for I don;t know how long. As I mentioned in another thread, he's hunky, macho, wears very nice eyeliner, and oooo-baby is he HOT HOT HOT. Where's the glory? Where's the Seventeen Magazine Cover stories? Where's the TV-Guide articles? Where are all the fangirls named Mrs. Balrog and RoggiesGirl? Where are the legions of MarySues out to rescue him from that meddling old greybeard? Can't we barrow-downers tell a ***HOTTIE*** when we see one??? I don't know what's wrong with all of us.

[Raefindel]

Jeepers, Helen! If I'd have known you were so fond of Balrogs I wouldn't have served Teri Yaki Balrog Wings for Christmas dinner!
Good thing I didn't invite you!

[Alphaelin]

Ahem, two words about Balrog desirability:

Balrog Breath

Thanks for the moral support concerning youthful obsessions with ME men! Either I am not as strange as I thought, or I have found a group as strange as I am. Either way I am very happy to be here. smilies/smile.gif

[mark12_30]

Eh, the breath... well, you do have a point.

Youthful obsession? Hey, I had elven runes embroidered on numerous articles of clothing, and it was a dead secret what the runes said. (Most kids put "Charlie and Suzy 4-ever" on rock walls with spray paint; not me.) smilies/biggrin.gif I wore cloaks to school WAY before it was even remotely cool.

[Raefindel]

Oh, I wish I were brave enough to wear all my costumes. I have several. but my husband doesn't even like it when I wear my kilt. Maybe I should have a picture of it posted on Alk's site.

[Mithadan]

I am long overdue for a return to this topic.

Most embarassing public Tolkien moment: Taking on the high school Orc for "annotating" the map to my copy of the Silmarillion during study period (purchased on the first day it was issued). The powers that be had no idea what got me so angry.

Second most embarassing public Tolkien moment: Circa 1975, going into a book store and asking for copies of the Silmarillion (referred to in Tolkien's biography), The Fall of Gondolin (referred to in both the Hobbit and LoTR), the Akallabeth (referred to in LoTR Appendices) and other works mentioned in Tolkien's works only to be told they were not listed in Books in Print.

My original LoTR set (Ballantine with Tolkien art covers) survived until 4 years ago when the ill-abused bindings finally gave way. This led me to my first ventures onto eBay where I eventually acquired an identical 4 volume set (gold box with heraldry). One problem. The set was absolutely mint. The books had never been opened! I could not bring myself to read them. Back to eBay where I got a hardcover set for a ridiculously low price. This one turned out remarkably to be a first edition Folio Society set; couldn't read that one either. So I eventually got a new Book Club one-volume reading copy (followed by a second edition boxed hardcover set, followed most recently by the "big red one" which I received today!).

I have never known anyone interested in Tolkien in real life and, until recently, only knew one or two people who had ever even read LoTR. It was my "closet" hobby until I discovered on-line message boards.

[mark12_30]

Guess I've been lucky-- I've known a fair number of people that enjoy LOTR. I wouldn't classify most of them as "fans", but a few are.

Mith, I'm jealous of your ballantine Tolkien-art gold-boxed set. That's the one I had to let go of a couple of years back, only I had a red heraldric box, which I think was a bit unusual? There are a few sets on Ebay, and I'm tempted-- maybe after the account recovers from Christmas.

So-- what did you do to that Orc, eh?

[Mithadan]

The red box is older, from perhaps 1975 or so. The gold box is from later in the 70s. Both can be gotten on eBay though finding them in good condition can be tough. Finding one with the books unused was almost astonishing.

The Orc and I did a few turns around the dance floor before the teachers stepped in. We later became friends. Ultimately, he learned to fly straight, went to college and became an engineer.

[Liriodendron]

Hmmm, I embroidered "Three rings for the elven kings" poem on my "elephant bells" (anyone remember those?) back in 72. Also "Far over the Misty Mnts" poem on my "babydoll shirt" smilies/smile.gif I wasn't much of a sewer, so I made all the letter's with straight sticthes, which made them look kind of like runes. smilies/smile.gif I was "that weird hippie chick who sews poems on her clothes" smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Alphaelin]

Oooo, I am pea-green with envy about the mint set. Wow. (Of course I guess mine was mint, too *once*.)

My dad had the red set, which he has apparently lost somewhere, and spent most of the last 20 years trying to steal my gold set. (Not to worry, stealing books is sort of a family game. Yes, we are dysfunctional and prefer it that way.) I finally bought him a hard-cover set of TH and the trilogy, but I can't recall the publisher now.

I didn't realize till now how lucky I am to have a parent who encouraged me to read Tolkien. Tho' I don't know what Dad would've done if I had started wearing Elvish-embroidered clothes. My mother would have freaked out completely I fear.

[mark12_30]

Looking online, the top of the gold box has a heraldric-looking picture on it, but-- I remember now!-- it's not heraldry, it's the "Numenorian tile." I have the heraldric pictures, but does anyone know where there's a picture of the tile online?

[piosenniel]

Helen - look here (http://tolkien.ru/texts/eng/pbjrrt/contents.html).

Number 46.

[mark12_30]

Yes!! many thanks!!

[Raefindel]

Cool site, Pio! I've been looking for a site like that!

[Alphaelin]

Beatiful site! I've printed off some of the designs in hopes of using parts of them in needlepoint. The watercolor of Rivendell is wonderful too! I think I'm going to frame it for my desk at home.

Thank-you so much for the link. smilies/smile.gif

[piosenniel]

My pleasure! I love to poke about on the net - there are some real treasures to be unearthed!

[mark12_30]

Mith, this is ALL YOUR fault. I have more bookmarks at Ebay than I do at the Downs. (I should invest in Ebay stock.) But when a boxed set finally arrives, I'll thank you for it.

[Samwise]

Uh....let's see. First read Tolkien when I was 12, I'm now 32. 20 years...EEP! smilies/eek.gif

[mark12_30]

Hey, Samwise! Glad to see you in the grey-beard's club... Didn't know you were so ancient. smilies/wink.gif

I was thinking that this club needs some sort of unifying insignia or badge, perhaps a wizard's staff to signify our ancientness. How do you vote on that? Would you prefer a Wizard staff or a Hobbit Walking Stick ...? smilies/cool.gif

Alphaelin, I've been chuckling about Clive. More, please.

[ January 07, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Mithadan]

Mark 12_30, would you like advice on "sniping"? smilies/wink.gif

[mark12_30]

Sure, Mithadan! Say on.

[ January 08, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Samwise]

Hey, Samwise! Glad to see you in the grey-beard's club... Didn't know you were so ancient.


LOL! I am. I admit it. smilies/wink.gif

I was thinking that this club needs some sort of unifying insignia or badge, perhaps a wizard's staff to signify our ancientness. How do you vote on that? Would you prefer a Wizard staff or a Hobbit Walking Stick ...?

Hobbit Walking Stick for me..... smilies/biggrin.gif

[Raefindel]

I,like Bilbo, have quite a collection of walking sticks!

[Alphaelin]

Mark12_30:

Glad you've been enjoying the brief mentions of Clive ETOF. (Always nice to know you're appreciated, lol.) Should I PM you?

A Wizard's staff for me, please - it might impress my kids. smilies/smile.gif Besides, I'm even older than Samwise. smilies/biggrin.gif

[mark12_30]

Alphaelin, Do a fanfic-style diary, I'll read it! (Trusting that you'll keep it family-oriented, etc. You seem 'proper' to me so far? )

Sorry, ranting a bit here. The Barrow Downs rule is G, PG max, but it's a bit distressing to me how much vulgarity slips thru sometimes. Tolkien didn't go for that stuff; why should we? Part of the reason I like your "Clive" is that he's evil, but in a sophisticated-- clean???-- sort of way... (wow, conondrums.)

[Holfast Willow from Greenfields]

I remember it as if it was yesterday. The year was 1997, it was raining, we were in the school library, and suddenly my gaze fell upon a book that looked different from the other books. That was LOTR. The Hobbit, I remember, was read to us at elementary school(Well at least I think that's what you call it, you know at the age of 9), when we had our lunchbreak. We sat in our classroom and ate our lunches while the teacher read it to us. Now I am 18, and I am still going strong with the reading.

[ January 08, 2003: Message edited by: Holfast Willow from Greenfields ]

[Mithadan]

Mark 12_30, sniping is a tactic that people use on eBay to give them a better chance at winning an auction. It works this way. Let's say you found your mint condition red box Ballantine set listed at $7.50 in an auction which will close on Friday at 6:30 pm, Pacific time. There are three bids and the high is $10.50 right now. You are willing to pay up to $25.00. Do not bid now. Bookmark the listing and make your bid (for the whole $25.00, not a lesser amount) at 6:29pm on Friday. By the time the other bidders get the "you've been outbidded" e-mail, it will be too late to make a new bid or maybe they'll come in and make a new bid which is still lower than yours (on eBay, the high bid, depending on the item price is set at $0.50 or $1.00 more, for lower price items, than the next highest bid, so even if you bid $25, if the next highest bid is $19, your new high bid will be set at $19.50 or so though you would still beat any bid up to $25).

Another trick is to bid $0.51 cents higher than your planned amount. So if someone else bids $25.01 you still win.

[mark12_30]

Mith, thanks. I had been slowly fermenting a few sub-sections of your process, but you brought it all together nicely. I like it.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Dear me, Holfast, you've landed among the geezers! smilies/wink.gif The title of this thread might be misleading - those of us who have gathered here read Tolkien at least 18 years ago. Welcome to the Downs anyway - take a look at the Tolkien Under Age Club and the Tolkien Middle Age Club, both on this forum, for other age groups!

[The Saucepan Man]

Many thanks, Estelyn, for the link. I am honoured to be invited, particularly since I am new to the Barrow Downs.

I was first introduced to Prof Tolkien's works some 25 years ago, when we read The Hobbit at school (I think we read it aloud in class). I must have been about 9 or 10. Although the recollection is pretty fuzzy, I have a vague memory of doing a picture in class of the spiders of Mirkwood involving string glued onto the paper as a web (the things that stick in the mind!). I am however eternally indebted to the teacher who introduced me to the book - I have been a fan ever since.

I soon moved on to the Lord of the Rings and soaked it up. I remember being intrigued by the cover which looked down a long road leading from a pleasant green land to a dark, mountainous, stormy land (the Shire to Mordor) with strange figures peeking out from the trees along the way (unfortunately that particular book is now long gone). It was wonderful, because it gave little away and let the imagination run wild in visualising all the characters and locations. I was taken on seeing the FotR film by how much of it looked just as I had imagined it, and again with TTT (I have set out my thoughts on the films elsewhere, so won't repeat myself any more here).

I also remember that awful sadness on finishing the book and wanting to read more. smilies/frown.gif I tried the Silmarillion a few years later, but found it pretty hard going and gave up.

I did follow it up by reading all the fantasy books I could get my hands on - some pretty sub-standard, but some were great (Michael Moorcock's Prince Corum series, Anne McCaffrey's Pern books and Aldiss' Helicona books spring to mind). I also got heavily into AD&D and various other RPGS at school - I couldn't believe it, a game with Hobbits in it where you acted out the characters (we always called them Hobbits, not Halflings).

I must have read Lord of the Rings 2 or 3 times shortly after, but hadn't picked it up for many years until I saw the FotR film about a year ago, which prompted to read TH and LotR again. It was like being re-introduced to old friends. smilies/smile.gif The film also got my wife into the books - can you believe that she had been told when a girl that she wouldn't enjoy them? smilies/eek.gif All those wasted years!

I never got round to reading the Silmarillion, although I'm planning on doing so soon. I'd also be interested in views on the History of Middle Earth books - I hadn't been aware of them until recently. I'd like to read them, but would welcome advice on where to start (I think that the first few volumes are pre-the Hobbit and LotR).

I'm interested in the conversation about people reading the books to their children. I'm currently reading The Enchanted Wood by Enid Blyton to my 5 year old daughter (hence the name) and she loves it. I'm looking forward to reading The Hobbit to her, but I think she might be a bit young yet.

As a newcomer, I must admit that I'm enjoying reading all the discussion threads on this sight - I've ventured into some of the "deeper" discussions, but my knowledge pre-the Hobbit is restricted to what I've read in the Illustrated Encyclopedia, so they seem quite daunting. I must work on my knowledge!

Anyway, I think that that's enough from me, so bye for now.

[Raefindel]

Saucepan Man, I also attempted the Silmarillion and quit. In fact I've attempted it several times and I just cant seem to stay with it.

Tolkien, for me, seems to be the "odd thing about Jan that make her interesting". No one in my family shares my interest. I guess that's why I'm here; here I'm not so odd and I'm able to share with others my interest.

I am a failure at my attempts to read Tolkien to my children. I've attempted to read The Hobbit to them, but have repetedly been rewarded with little interest.

[Brigid de Burgo]

Senior year in High School, class of 1966. The smartest guy in the class had one of the Ballantine paperbacks & said "you've read it, of course." I hadn't but soon rectified the situation. (Later he said he'd marry me if I knew Golias--many years later, I finally found "Silverlock." Every time I get a notice of another Class Reunion I see the message: "Does anybody know how to get in touch with S----- McC-----?" Yet another reason to avoid the reunions. Ah, well.)

I read the trilogy & The Hobbit several times. Also Farmer Giles & On Fairy Tales. I branched out to other fantasy writers--Lin Carter's series of classic fantasies was a response to the success of Tolkien. Then on to non-fiction. (I'd read "The Once & Future King" senior year as well, so I was also on the Arthurian track.) A bit of Jung & a lot of Joseph Campbell. One semester of Medieval English Literature in college.

The coming of the movies made pick up a copy of The Fellowship (the sixties were hard on my library). I was surprised to find it so delightful & plan to continue to The Silmarilion & the other works.

[The Saucepan Man]

Raefindel

I am determined to read the Silmarillion - I always meant to. I think the problem is that (as I recall) it starts off so abstract, and only gets into heroic deeds 'n the like later on. I just can't help getting my Maia and my Valar all mixed up. smilies/rolleyes.gif

When I first read LotR and got into AD&D, all my friends were into fantasy and scifi etc, but I was the only one really into LotR. I don't remember any in depth discussions anyway. Now, it's great that my wife's getting into the books.

I think Rosie will love the Hobbit. She can't wait for each instalment of the Faraway Tree and her face lights up with wonder at the childrens' adventures and concern at their perils. My only concern is not to try the Hobbit too early and maybe put her off it.

[Liriodendron]

I forced myself to read the Silmarillion this year (internet friends insisted!) You're certainly right about the start! After I got going, it wasn't that bad, but I don't find the pleasure (no, make that joy!) that I get from LoTR and The Hobbit. I've been buying up the audio CD's on Ebay. I really enjoy listening to them. My eyes are going downhill rather quickly, and I can't skip or speedread stuff when I'm listening. My favorite way to enjoy Middle Earth lately is listening to Rob Inglis while lying on the couch with my eyes closed! smilies/redface.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

[Samwise]

I always had a thing for Faramir, too. I can't tell you how disapointed I am with the movie character.

Eh...I know what you mean, Miss Rae. Not that I have the same feelings for Mr. Faramir....(saw the movie for the first time tonight and it will be the last) WHAT was all that "We're taking the ring to Gondor!" nonsense???? And the way Faramir treated the Hobbits....????? Throughought the whole movie, wherever Mr. Jackson SCREWED UP, my friend and I who went to see it looked at each other and went "HUH???"

Erm....calm down, Samwise, calm down....

My fave line in the whole movie, however, came from my own dear, precious (NOT in the Gollum sense) Sam....

"And who are you, his bodyguard? "
"I'm his gardener! "

Ah, my dear, darling Sam.... smilies/wink.gif

Sigh....okay, my swooning done....

[ January 08, 2003: Message edited by: Samwise ]

[Samwise]

Stacey:...did I say swooning done? Wait....
"Man, Sean Astin has some pretty eyes...!"
Okay, NOW swooning done.

Sam: Miss Stacey!!

Stacey: Hush, Sam. Isn't it past your bedtime.....?

[mark12_30]

Getting thru the Silm was difficult for me until some ( helpful, kind, wise ) person on this site suggested keeping a pen and some paper handy, and drawing out my own copy of who is who and where. You end up with your own copy of all the geneologies, names, places, etc.

That did it. I drew, I listed, I correlated... and I read and read, and wept and cheered, and shouted out loud... it was great.

Fingolfin, why!?!? WhyWhyWhy? Ah, well, it was glorious. (sniff)

[Liriodendron]

Yeah, I should reread it and do that. It would be nice to then make a "beautiful" chart of info, on lush paper with some artwork. It would definitely take a few rough drafts to figure out the clearest, loveliest way to lay down all the names and places.

[ January 09, 2003: Message edited by: Liriodendron ]

[Strider]

I read THE LORD OF THE RINGS for the first time this year, I am 14 right now. I bought the whole trilogy(I saw the "fellowship" movie first unfortunately) and I have been hooked on the saga ever since!

[Raefindel]

Welcome to the Downs, Strider. I was 14 when I first read the books, too. Unfortunately, that was 23 years ago! You are posting on the "OLD FOGIE'S" Thread.

[Guinevere]

Mae govannen everyone !

I’m not sure if I may join this thread of the BD-seniors or not…
I am certainly among the very oldest of you, since I am born 1951.
BUT, I am apparently an exception because I have NOT read LotR as a teenager, but only became acquainted with Tolkien’s works at the age of 50. And, let me tell you, it was quite a revelation for me! I have read a lot of books in my life , (also many English ones), yet I can honestly say that hardly any other book has so fascinated, thrilled and moved me, and none has stimulated my fantasy and enriched my life as much as LotR.

I only wonder why on earth I never came across Tolkien earlier in life. Probably because I don’t live in an English speaking country… Though I did spend a year in England (1971 and half a year in the USA (1973), none of my friends, teachers and acquaintances ever gave me a hint ( I used to borrow books from everyone. My favourite used to be Charlotte Brontë’s “ Jane Eyre”)
Anyhow, it was only 2 years ago when my elder son (now 17) started reading the Hobbit and LotR. (Several of his friends from the boy-scouts are Tolkien-Fans…) He read the books in German, while I got myself some English copies and was soon more of a fan than he was. For him, it’s just an exciting adventure story, but I get more out of it.
I proceeded with the Silmarillion (Rather hard to begin with, but fortunately I have a good memory for names…I was more troubled by the deep sadness in this work.) Thereafter, I reread LotR with a new understanding and appreciation. In between I had also read “On Fairy-stories”(Marvellous! I found so much truth in there!) and “Leaf by Niggle” which stirred a deeper interest in Tolkien’s life and thoughts, so I got his biography and the book by T.Shippey “Tolkien, author of the century”. In the mean time I had joined the Barrowdowns and have since then read ever so many interesting and thought-provoking threads.(Btw, that’s another side-effect of my Tolkien-craze: being rather a luddite, I had never touched a computer before, but my son taught me to use the internet so I could get in touch with other Tolkien- fans all over the world.) In the BD I came across several beautiful quotations from Tolkien’s letters, so of course, I had to have those treasures too! My latest acquisition are the Unfinished Tales , which I am reading now.

My younger son (12) was of course intrigued by all this talk about elves, dwarves, orcs etc and therefore also read the Hobbit last year and is now reading LotR.(He is very much interested in MiddleEarth and asks me all sorts of questions. ) Since he has to read aloud to me (on the teacher’s request) and alternately I read to him, I can compare his German copy to my English one. Alas, in no way does the translation justice to the original! Much of the charm of Tolkiens wonderful language is lost. I can just hope that my boys will later in life, when their English has improved, come back to Tolkien.
As for my dear husband, he never reads a novel, let alone fantasy. But he bears my “obsession” with patience. He even installed a DVD player , so we could watch the extended FotR-DVD.( But after 15 min. he fell asleep! It’s hopeless.)
For me, the BarrowDowns are a wonderful place, because I have no adult friends around me who know Tolkien.

Now I hope I haven’t bored anyone to death with this much too long post. I have certainly read all your posts with the greatest interest!

[Alphaelin]

Mark12_20,

(wiping away tears of mirth at being called both 'proper' *and* 'sophisicated') I'm not actually very proper at all, but try not to impose my depravity on others, lol.

It's been at least 25 years since I've attempted any fic at all, fan- or otherwise, but I'm willing to give Clive's Diary a try - at G or PG level. Now comes the part where I show my computer illiteracy: How and where do I post something like that?? I am altogether clueless.

[mark12_30]

Well.. once The Barrow Wight re-energizes and starts posting new stories again (igf he does), then it could go here (http://www.barrowdowns.com/fanfiction/default.asp). But til then... well, you could post it at GreenBooks at TheOneRing.net (a cool place) or... there are others. If you have a website of your own you can of course post it there.

But you've got to write it first! And I think you'd have fun doing so.

[Liriodendron]

My Guinevere, that is a lovely story. I'm sad that the german versions lose something in the translation, but I can see it, I suppose. Words can be things of beauty. smilies/smile.gif I must say it's the visual impressions the words stir in my mind, that drives my passion for Tolkien. Some love the plot(s), some the languages, I love the descriptions of natural things, and think in terms of art when reading. What a wonderful fiftieth birthday gift, the works of JRR Tolkien! smilies/smile.gif

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Guinevere, you are most welcome here - yes, Tolkien fans of our age and gender seem to be somewhat rare in German-speaking countries! That's why I appreciate this opportunity to exchange opinions and just enjoy talking about the books and movies with others. This site is worth the effort of improving our computer/internet abilities! smilies/wink.gif

It's nice to "see" new faces coming in - I'm enjoying reading about all of you so much. Thanks for sharing with us!

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Thank you so much, Estelyn, for leading me to this thread, it's wonderful.
(Just read your post yesterday.)

Greetings all! Thanks everyone, for sharing your stories with us.
It has brought back a lot of memories. Unfortunately, though,
I have been puzzling over how old I was when I read LoTR...I believe I
was around 12 or so. My copy of it is the gold Ballantine boxed set with
Tolkien's heraldry on it. The books say 1977, but I think I received them
as a gift after reading it. I'm currently 39.

It's easier to recall, the 2 chairs I was glued to that summer,
and my dissapointment upon finishing them. Sign of my cresting the hill
I suppose.

The mentions of D&D made me smile too. I have a lot of memories of my
brother, a serious historical wargamer to this day, disparing over how
the D&Dr's have taken over the clubs & conventions. Then we had this
delightful D&Dr living with our family for a few years. He used to make
us laugh so hard, with his stories! Good memories.

At anyrate, though LoTR was lodged in my heart I avoided reading it for
fear that I wouldn't like it as well a second time around.
After seeing the the movie last winter and finding that I didn't remember
it quite like that, I decided to read the tale to my 9 yr old. I fell
in love with the story all over again, (and my daughter fell asleep).
Actually, my daughter liked the Hobbit, but I think the attention to detail in LoTR
made her eyes glaze over. I will try again in a year or two.

The purity of spirit and vivid descriptions...sigh....

As a youth I had read:
The Hobbit
LoTR
Farmer Giles
Sir Gawain
The Adventures of Tom Bombadil
The Father Christmas Stories
Silmarillion

Lately I have read:
Roverandom

Now Reading UT and think it's amazing! Next on to HoME.

But I've rambled on long enough. And I'm much more comfortable reading than writing!

Life is what happens when you're making other plans.

[ January 10, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

[ January 10, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

[ January 10, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

[Raefindel]

Welcome to the Downs, Hilde Bracegirdle , Guinevere &Brigid de Burgo .


Guinevere, Your husband sounds like mine; tollerant, even encouraging my "Tolkien-ness" but not having read it himself. He buys me everything he sees with Tolkien's name on it and listens me to talk about it all, but won't read the books for himself.

[Samwise]

This little story was posted in a long-ago thread, but (and welcome to all you new folks) here it is for those who haven't read it.
.................flashback...................
About Me
Goodness, where do I start.....
32,female.
Saw the cartoon "The Hobbit" at about 6.
At about 12, had the book "The Two Towers" left in my lap when the bell rang and the friend who'd gotten it in the school library took off, so I read it...then I figured I'd better begin at the beginning...
Said friend said that she and a freind in her "old neighborhood" had taken on roles of the characters, my friend was Merry, her old friend Pippin. After little thought, I became Sam. He was near and dear to my heart then and he still is.
A moment that makes me chuckle: My friend "Merry" once said: "I've got to go over to the cafeteria." and headed off. Not being told not to, I followed. She turned to me and said, "Hm. Maybe I ought to be Frodo, too, 'cause you seem to keep wanting to follow me around! "
There. Secret shared.

[redshelob]

Alright: For awhile there I thought I might be the only one who read The Hobbit and LOTR before the '70s. My Mother was a teacher and heaven forebid I read Tolkien, but I did. Soon to be a grandmother reading bedtime stories from the Hobbit and LOTR. smilies/biggrin.gif

[Raefindel]

Congratulations on Grandmotherhood, Redshelob. smilies/biggrin.gif

[Alphaelin]

Thanks for the fan-fic posting advice...of course, I do have to write the thing first. Or finish writing it - I was a very good girl (& also had a beer too many) & started it at least.

So thanks for the encouragement too!

[Raefindel]

I'm proud of you for starting, Alphaelin ! smilies/cool.gif

[redshelob]

Raefindel, it is obvious you are a valued forum leader and caring person. Us newbies appreciate the interest. smilies/smile.gif

[mark12_30]

(ahem) It's Here. Red box set, ballantine Tolkien art covers... just like I had when I was twelve. ***THANKS MITH***
:D
:D
:D

[alquadae]

I had joined the Navy in 73; someone left a copy of THE HOBBIT out on a table. {Gear adrift}. Stargate alignment ,,,Hobbiton ,,, I was in ! Later that week while riding in a buddy`s car, Led Zepplin was in the eight track [remember those] and the words “darkest depths of Mordor I met a girl so fair” hit me square between the ears.Hey play that again!!!!! By the end of the night they were glad to get me out of the car.I was not invited to go out on liberty with them again. I was so excited!! I tried to explain my discovery to my friends. The best response I got was “Yaaaa maaan that’s cool”. My frustrations turned to anger .How can anyone not savor this geniuses offering. I would walk away muttering” Unread heathen infidel!, not fit to breath Eru’s air”. Many years and many readings have mellowed my temperament and it’s ok to say JRRT is not for everyone, but those of us who enjoy Tolkiens works, what a blessing! For years I begrudgingly accepted the fact that my enjoyment would be a solitary sojourn. {Funding issues, parental obligations, work etc}. The excitement is rekindled I have discovered brothers and sisters {in the word} so to speak!!!
I read The Hobbit to my children for a bedtime story. They don’t remember the story line but they tell me they remember the readings. We live on a small pond and on clear nights we would all pile into the row boat and head out the middle. I would tell the story of Feanor and the jewels, We would all see if we could find Vingilot with the Silmaril on Earendil`s brow ,then point out the great sickle and explain it’s ominous threat to Morgorth. Some nights Tilion would be sailing the heavens and of course that required a full explanation and discussion. I’ve been waiting for that dreadful phone call from the school astronomy department.

My youngest [17] finished ROK last night; It was a bittersweet event “I don’t want the story to be over”. I handed her a fresh copy of the SIL. My two oldest have read the trilogy while the oldest has the SIL under his belt.

After I read your post, Bethberry, [9/24] Want to give you a hug and tell you” you have my sword”. , Estelyn Telcontar, thank you for the welcome note and the directions, I do enjoy the thread, read through it several times. Hi Arwen Imladris !

Fair winds and following seas to all



Alquadae

[Samwise]

alquadae, Greetin's!
Whew, our numbers are growing... smilies/wink.gif

[Raefindel]

Raefindel, it is obvious you are a valued forum leader and caring person. Us newbies appreciate the interest.

LOL! I've never considered myself a leader of anything before! But thanks for the boost!

Welcome to the Downs,alquadae.

Helen, I'm glad you got your Books!

[Mithadan]

Congratulations, Mark 12_30!

To all the newcomers who have found their way to this thread, welcome!

[Child of the 7th Age]

Does anyone have an old, old Hobbit? I mean the one before Tolkien made the changes to Gollum and Riddles in the Dark. I would love one of those, but the prices on e-bay make me faint.

I do have a sturdy old library binding labelled "twentieth printing" (no year is given--picked it up long ago at a rummage sale) that includes a special note at the front where the author explains he has made certain changes in his revised volume:

... More important is the matter of Chapter 5. There the true story of the ending of the Riddle Game, as it was eventually revealed (under pressure) by Bilbo to Gandalf, is now given according to the Red Book, in place of the version Bilbo first gave to his friends, and actually set down in his diary. This departure from truth on the part of a most honest hobbit was a portent of great significance. It does not, however, concern the present story, and those who in this edition make their first acquaintance with hobbit-lore need not trouble about it. Its explanation lies in the history of the Ring, as it is set out in the chronicles of the Red Book of Westmarch, and it must await their publication.

I love that reference. Whenever I read it, I feel I am standing at a small round window, peering into a burrow, where I have a glimpse of JRRT sitting at his desk and working on the Red Book!

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Alphaelin, does this mean we don't get day 5 of The Secret Diary of Clive, Evil Twin of Faramir?

[Mithadan]

I have one, Child. Its a first edition, fourth printing by Allen Unwin from 1948. Its also printed under wartime standards, so its an undersized hardcover, designed to save paper.

[mark12_30]

Wow, Mith! Now that's an heirloom... I'm with Sharon, I've always been a little curious about the original story "that Bilbo told the dwarves".

I just ordered an "Annotated Hobbit", but I chose slow-shipping... You'd think that that would have been in there. I'm a bit surprised that it's apparently not, since I believe Sharon does have a copy?

Welcome to the newcomers... this is great fun, to see you all weighing in, and such a very refreshingly mature tone of discussion!

A question I'm fond of asking: how has Tolkien's works affected your world view and your framework of belief? Tolkien has said that he setout to write a myth, and his concept of myth was a vehicle to let the truth shine through. Have any of you experienced that, and to what degree?

To put a completley different twist on the question, is there something from Tolkien's work that you always wished that you could do or be (maybe you role-play it even now) and what about that reflects what you want or wish for, or strive for, or pursue?

Does that reveal something about Tolkien, something about you, or both?

[mark12_30]

Sharon, I got curious-- you're right, the originals are Nosebleed-altitude-expensive... but--check this out. If this means what I think it does, then would this do?

UP FOR BIDS HERE IS THE ANNOTATED EDITION OF THE HOBBIT -COPYRIGHT 1988. THIS COMPREHENSIVE HARDCOVER BOOK CONTAINS MANY OF TOLKIEN'S PERSONAL ILLUSTRATIONS AND MANY OTHERS FROM FOREIGN EDITION INTERPRETATIONS. AN APPENDIX DETAILS ALL OF TOLKIEN'S REVISIONS ALSO. BLACK AND WHITE PICTURES. 337 PAGES. TEXT BOOK SIZE BOOK MEASURES 11"x8.5". NEVER READ AND IN MINT CONDITION. A GREAT INTRODUCTION AND WONDERFUL STORY WHICH PREDATES THE LORD OF THE RINGS. GREAT FOR GENERAL READERS, FANS OF CHILDRENS LITERATURE, FANTASY MINDS, AND TOLKIEN LOVERS. A TRUE CLASSIC.


Now, does anybody out there have this 1988 edition and if so, is the Original Riddle Game in it? Does The modern Annotated Hobbit also have the revisions? (mine's on order... til Feb?)

If this isn't the answer, then .... Mith, what would the rules be (legally speaking) for you scanning it or typing it in or something like that? Any copyright violations?

Sharon, maybe Mith will just have to throw an Original Riddle Game Party, or something like that. Hey, sounds good; Riddle Party at Mith's house. Er-- Mith-- did you say you were in middle latitudes? At the beach? In 80 degree weather??? Hmm, this could work!

Sharon, one last question-- where in HoME does it say that Bingo goes westward to live in a hut and then sails west?

By the way Sharon if you want more info about that auction, PM me. It's a lot more reasonable than a vintage auction.

[Raefindel]

Hey! Today is Helen's anniversary! One year at the Downs! Congratulations!

[Samwise]

<center>
Congrats!!!!!
</center>

[Birdland]

Does anyone have an old, old Hobbit?
Sharon - Here's the search page for ABEBooks.com, I site I love for hunting old books. Unfortunately, anything earlier than the 1960s you're gonna have to take out a second mortgage to afford.
abebooks.com book search (http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookSearch)

So what year did Tolkien revise "The Hobbit"?

[Child of the 7th Age]

Yes, I do have the Annotated Hobbit. In fact, I have two--the one just out, and the earlier one from 1988. And both do contain the earlier versions of the story, which is fun.

This may make me sound looney toons, but I want the older volume for the 'feel' of it, not the intellectual content. Perhaps this is because I've taught history and worked in an archives at different times in my life. I like old things because they are old, and they have a certain aura about them. (Little men in white coats coming to carry Child away....)

Mith, Oooh! I'm green with envy. Perhaps I'll have to wait until I inherit an unexpected fortune, which is not likely to be soon!

Thank you Bird and Helen for the references. Occasionally, I have stumbled onto nice things, but no 1948 Hobbits! Nine months ago I found a first edition, first printing of The Lost Road for 5$ in a local secondhand bookstore when it was going on e-bay for up to $100. That was nice! And Abe books is sometimes helpful. I was able to replace my defunct Road to Middle-earth which I couldn't find anywhere else.

Ok, I admit it. Over the years, I've collected a thing or two. Not the good stuff, but lots of comforting junk! For LotR, I still have my 60s Ballantines in miserable shape, one soggy Ace volume, and also my second edition, 10th printing hardbacks (minus the box!), but sadly nothing older. I do have the one-volume edition from the early nineties illustrated by Lee, and more recently the red leatherbound collectors edition, also one volume.

As you can see, I like older books. In fact (cowers down in her seat), I have one whole bookcase filled with LotR stuff that I've gotten over the years. None of it would probably be worth anything with a bookdealer, but I like 'em! Criticism, fun stuff, even coloring books and older calendars. I have a plethora of Hobbits in particular, but none of them are that old. Oh, yeah, I still do have a couple of those crazy 'sixties pins like Gandalf for President and Frodo Lives plus the Bodleian Library posters of Taniquetil (my favorite) and Bilbo on the barrels.

It's amazing the kind of stuff one collects in a lifetime. My Tolkien bookcase happily coexists with one my husband has that is filled with Brooklyn Dodger things. So we have a very ecumenical household.

[mark12_30]

Samwise and Rae, thanks! smilies/smile.gif

Sharon-- I wish I hadn't purged all my old stuff. I had some way cool posters. THe one I miss the most (because I saw it at ebay and it was too much!) is the map of Middle-Earth with the poster (the original ballantine covers that Tolkien hated with the Emus and pink eggplants on the tree) wrapped around it as a border. That's the poster I used to stare at (endlessly) and imagine visiting the Blue Mountains, and the unexplored (by me, so far) edges of Gondor and Rohan, and the upper vales of the Misty Mountains, and Lake Evendim (yes!) and The Tower Hills and of course Mithlond and Forlond and Harlond and.... oh, all those places that he didn't tell us about. Elves must hide there, or hobbits, or perhaps some good Numenorean descendants...

Yeah, the old stuff is fun. I know what you mean about old books. I have my great-great-(great?)- grandfather's bible, and his autobiography (wonderful man, can't wait to meet him) and I love skimming through his bible, wondering what he thought of as he read the page I'm on. But mostly it sits on the shelf and reminds me of him.

For a while on ebay I resisted the temptation to bid on the old poster-cover ballantine edition, precisely because Tolkien was so irritated with the emus and eggplants, but finally I did buy a set-- because my older siblings had those volumes kicking around, and I remember them. Memory lane.

Maybe that's why The Cottage of Lost Play yanks at us so. (Sharon, I miss seeing it in your sig.)

[Birdland]

As you can see, I like older books. In fact (cowers down in her seat), I have one whole bookcase filled with LotR stuff...
Hmmmmmm...(Birdie flashes open her overcoat, revealing her first release, 2-4th printings of the 1950s U.S. LoTR) "Pssst! Hey lady, over here. Near mint. For you, a special price: $2000. C'mon, ya know you want 'em!"

[Child of the 7th Age]

Helen,

I had that very same poster up in my college dorm room! It's the one that looks as if the author was experimenting with something he/she shouldn't have been. Similar to the paperback covers on my Ballantine books. My poster got so tattered and ripped that it ended up in the wastebasket.

As far as my sig goes, I am in the Shire so much where I need to delete it for the RPG games. I can never remember consistently to do that which would not be a good example for other folk. So I've temporarily put it into mental storage and will retrieve it again when things settle down.

Oh, Bird, that home improvement stuff must be costing a bundle if you are offering to barter your books! smilies/biggrin.gif Don't worry though. At that price, they are perfectly safe from me.

sharon

[ January 15, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[Mithadan]

Talking collecting, huh? I'm an addict though I'm now more selective than I used to be. I have:

The Hobbit Collecter's Edition (50th Anniversary gold leatherette box and covers;
LoTR Collectors Edition;
Ballantine Gold Box Hobbit and LoTR;
Hobbit, 1st Ed. 4th Printing (the last with the original riddle game);
Box Set, LoTR hardcover, 2nd Edition 9th Printing;
1st reprint Folio Society LoTR;
Simarillion, 1st US;
Unfinished Tales, 1st US;
HoME 1-12 hardcovers (US), all 1st Ed., mostly 1st printings;
Atlas of Middle Earth (hardcover);
Pictures by Tolkien, 1st US;
Tolkien, Artist and Illustrator (hardcover);
The Road Goes Ever On, 1st US;
Tolkien Reader;
The Jewel of Arwen (Marion Zimmer Bradley);
Vinyar Tengwar (miscellaneous);
Sindarin Lexicon (Tolkien Society);
The Alphabet of Rumil and Early Noldorin Fragments (Parma Eldalamberon XIII);
Proceedings of the J.R.R. Tolkien Centenary Conference;
Annotated Hobbit (hardback); and
Various copies of LoTR and The Hobbit and a few softcover HoME volumes.

Sick, huh?

[Birdland]

Helen and Sharon: Me too! I loved that poster, with the Fellowship marching away from the viewer at the top, and the Nine Wraiths riding after them at the bottom.

Long gone, of course. Wish I had found it when we cleaned out Mom's attic. Fortunately, "collector's mentality" did not exist back then. You enjoyed things for the time, then moved on. "Mint, in the box" is a phrase I have grown to loathe.

Hey, you know, I don't think I've officially joined this club. (Birdie stands) "Ahem...Yes, I was there, too. I Grok Frodo!"

[Raefindel]

It's about time you came in here, Birdie! I was just about to post an APB on you!

Mithadan- I hope you plan on including these items in your will-that represents a great deal of money! I suppose that goes for all of you collectors. I have a really old copy of Jane Eyre...

[ January 15, 2003: Message edited by: Raefindel ]

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Referring back to the question that you are so fond of asking, Mark12_30….
It’s sort of like asking whether the chicken or the egg come first.
Tolkien’s work is extremely encouraging in an discouraging age.

I’ve always admired in LoTR how the company pressed on and did what is right, not what is is easy or comfortable, despite of overwhelming odds and corruption. They
ran the race regardless of what the outcome or personal cost might be.

PS Does anyone know a reliable way to get the musty smell out of old books?

[mark12_30]

Birdie, m'dear, welcome to the club; "Grok Frodo Aye! At Ease!"

...and now, please go here:

just the map, nice and big (http://lotrmaps.middle-earth.us/maps/r3t_M66.jpg)

and then go here

The Poster With Fellowship and ringwraiths (http://lotrmaps.middle-earth.us/maps/r3t_M92.jpg)

And have a ball. I just wish they had the one with the "druggie" emu & eggplant border... but I LOVE this one too (I have a color printer smilies/biggrin.gif

Mith-- is it all in a glass case? Is there a picture of your collection online? (hint)

Hilde Bracegirdle, to get the musty smell out of old books, I put them into a large plastic bag with some ammonia (not touching the book, you just want the fumes) and leave it for ... as long as it takes.

However, I've been working on a George Macdonald paperback (Princess and Curdie) and it didn't work and didn't work. I finally had to immerse it in the ammonia. Now the book is drying clamped flat between two boards by the woodstove. I don't know whether the book will survive this draconian torture or not. I don't recommend this method unless the book is so mildewed that it's headed for the trash (like this one is, and my old Ballantine trilogy, which I didnt think of trying this on.) I'm fighting so hard for the Princess and Curdie because the cover art is by Pauline Baynes!

[ January 15, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Oh my gosh I recognize the poster with the ring wraiths! (Can’t imagine what the emus and eggplants one would look like, but my curiosity is definitely piqued.)

Thanks for the help I will try the ammonia. My husband and I spent many years living out of boxes and some of my old friends are a little worse off for it.

[mark12_30]

Glad to be of assistance, Ms. Bracegirdle!

On The HObbit: In the letters he's talking about the revisions in 1950, so I'd guess the revisions were printed 1951?

[Raefindel]

Oh Man! I haven't seen those posters in Aeons!

[Bêthberry]

A barrow's a fine and private place, yet here do many with fraternity embrace. (Sorry, Estelyn, I'm Donne with bad puns now.) Welcome to all those new Downers who have come of age.

My book collection confession is made with some wry embarassment. As I posted earlier, my old editions of Tolkien never made it through successive moves, yet we have just now discovered, in one of our many boxes of books hoarded away in the basement, my husband's old edition of Bored with the Rings.

I thank you, Alquadae, for your words and your courtesy. This November brought the last sail. No reading to hold time at bay this year, watching death's play for dominion. Still, the defeat is not complete.

Bethberry

[mark12_30]

Here is One place you can see the emus and eggplants (http://www.timefold.com/covers.html)

It's not the map, though, it's scanned book covers, but you get the idea. There was a big (4 foot? 6 foot??) poster that was those three pictures seamlessly integrated. Then if you can imagine that artwork rearranged all the way around the border of the map (Shire on the lefthand side, Mordor on the righthand side, other stuff stretched above and below) that was basically it; and the map was done in such lovely faded blue colors for the mountain ranges...

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Ah yes, now I remember those book covers! (How could I have forgotten them!) Many thanks.

[littlemanpoet]

Hoof! :lands hard:

Hmmm... Level 15. I didn't even know this place was down here.

:looks around:

Well, hey! I know a whole lot of you! Nice to see you all here! How come noboby told me?

:whimpers in self-pity then slaps self across face:

Sorry. I coulda looked.

Okay. I think some of you may know my little story from other threads.

One night at bedtime, way back in 1968, my brother H. said he'd like to read me a chapter from the best story he'd ever found (if you consider it as prequel to LotR and therefore part of it). He proceeded to read to me Riddles in the Dark from The Hobbit. I am indebted to him for that wonderful experience. Next day, I picked up the book for myself and read the whole thing through, I don't know how long it took me, but I savored Riddles in the Dark for the second time, on my own. It has remained one of my favorite chapters (I really need to read it again). I moved on to LotR, but was frankly too young, and when I got to Minas Tirith in RotK, I got bored with the description of the place, and set the books down for a couple years. I never lost my enthusiasm for Middle Earth, though. I finished RotK when I was 13. Lessee, that puts my completion at 30 years ago. I have since read LotR 6 times, the Hobbit about 3 times all the way through, and scanned both for reference regularly. As I said, it changed my life and baptized my imagination. Okay. I've put in my 2 cents and will now go back and read through the thread and catch up.

:doffs cap and zig zags back down a few corridors, and calls out before he gets out of hearing distance:

Yeah, I did AD&D too. I plagiarized Tolkien's world, making much of the two Blue Wizards, dungeon mastering feebly but enthusiastically.

[Samwise]

Don't feel bad, Mr. Poet, sir--took me a while to discover this thread, too.
*waves at his departing back*

[Aratlithiel]

Child of the 7th Age and mark 12_30 invited me in the other day so I'm going to jump right in here...

It was 1975. I was 10 and a voracious reader. My mother often said that I went through books like other people went through potato chips - I would chew them up and swallow them and then go looking for more. It came to pass in the autumn of that year that I realized that I had read everything on my father's well-stocked bookshelf and was at a loss as to what to do with myself. I remembered seeing a stash of books in his closet once (I didn't know at the time why they were verboten and didn't really care - I needed something to read, you see) and so ransacked the box until I found 3 hard-cover books (carefully wrapped in plastic) written by the same author of The Hobbit! I was THRILLED! I loved The Hobbit. I had read it when I was 6 and never dreamed there were more. I immediately sat right there on the floor in front of the closet (books and shoes strewn about me everywhere) and began to read.

I had gotten almost two chapters into it when my father came home and just about flipped. I didn't know at the time, but these were 1954 first editions of the original George Allen & Unwin publications. (A relative in Ireland had gotten them for him and he treasured them - imagine when he saw my grubby little ten-year-old hands all over them!) He took the books away from me, wrapped them back up and returned them to their places, admonishing me never, NEVER to touch them again. Oh, it was TORTURE!! Never had I been told that I COULDN'T read something - especially something that was so alluring in just two small chapters!

So I was a good little girl and followed orders, right? Yeah, sure. I couldn't help myself. Everyday, there were two hours that my brothers and sisters had alone in the house between the time we got home from school and my parents got home from work. So everyday, I would plant myself in front of the closet, unwrap the books, read as much as I could in those two hours and then carefully re-wrap them and replace them before my dad got home. I cannot describe to you the torment I had going to bed every night, not being able get this story out of my mind and being so limited in what I could read everyday. And weekends when I couldn't read them at all were absolute hell! And it took me almost 4 weeks between The Choices of Master Samwise and The Tower of Cirith Ungol to finally find out what happened to Frodo! Ah, sweet relief.

Anyway, I finally reached the end of The Grey Havens thinking I had at least a few hundred pages left and...WHAT? APPENDICES?!?! What the dratted HELL is THIS? I want more Frodo! I read the appendices anyway because I simply could not stop at this point but I was hugely disappointed that the story had ended. I think I could have gone on forever sneaking Middle-earth for two hours a day under threat of punishment if only the story of Frodo went on!

And so it was that I read LotR from September through November of 1975 in secrecy and silent torment. But still, that wasn't enough. I began bugging my parents relentlessy for my own copy (never telling, of course that I had read my dad's) because I wanted to read it again...and again and again. I can't describe to you the disappointment I felt that Christmas when there was no new LotR under the tree for me.

That April, I received for my 11th birthday a beautiful 1965 collector's edition bound in red with gold lettering (Oh, joy! Just like the Red Book of Westmarch!) along with a companion green-bound The Hobbit. It was not until several years later that I confessed to my father that I had read his treasured 1st editions. He wasn't surprised.

A few years later, when I left for college I was unpacking my suitcase in my new dorm-room when I found some presents wrapped in white paper with daisies on it. There was a rather large, heavy one, a large light one and a very small one. I opened the small one first...it was a small metal button-pin, white with red lettering that said, "Frodo Lives." I knew immediately what the large heavy one was - yes my father had given me his cherished 1st editions. I cried. The large, light one was a print he had had made and framed of the map of Middle-earth. My new room-mate rolled her eyes and said, "Oh, God, you're one of THEM!" I never did get to like her.

I still have and treasure both of the sets he gave me as well as the map and pin and keep them in places of honor in my home. Like my father, I have forbidden my children from touching them, however, I do keep paperback editions handy for them and - joy of joys! - have had to replace them twice already because my children are just as enthralled by Middle-earth as I ever was. The poor paperbacks are put through the wringer before they're finally retired and replaced!

So, here I sit, a 37-yr-old mother of four who has been carrying on an unhealthy obsession with a fifty-year-old Hobbit for almost 30 years. I'm so very glad to see that I'm in very good company. smilies/wink.gif

[Child of the 7th Age]

Littlemanpoet and Aratlithiel,

So my link actually worked! Usually they don't.

Artlithiel, what a wonderful story. Third generation Lord of the Ring fans! That is quite something. And the books you have...drool, drool.

We're only working on second generation here. My parents were definitely the Gamgee types in terms of class and interests. A very loving family, but books were hard to come be. They would never have dreamed of opening up The Hobbit or LotR. But my father's family came from Lancashire and Cornwall (first Cornish miners, then Michigan's copper mines) so I grew up with a love of foods, folksongs, tales, etc passed down from grandparents that could loosely be defined as'English'.

When I read about the Shire, it absolutely struck a nerve, and I have been hooked ever since. (Ah, Littlemanpoet, now you can see why I am enamored with the idea of Tolkien's 'mythology for England.') I was in the rare situation of being able to use fantasy and Tolkien as a way to "rebel"--to define my own identity and yet to keep something of my family's values.

My parents definitely did not understand their daughter's interest in Elves or dragons, but their ideas about community, loyalty, hard work, simple creature comforts, etc. were close to those of the hobbits in the Shire.

Plus, I had the added incentive of being part of the 'Frodo Lives' generation who went to college in the late 60s, with posters, buttons, etc. festooning our dorm rooms. We trotted around in long skirts, looking like hobbit girls. I even remember being in an undergraduate Ecology class (something new back in those days!), and the teacher letting us compare the atttudes of our 'modern' world concerning the environment with the ideas expressed in LotR. I felt as if I had been admitted into a secret club!

Good seeing you both on this thread!

sharon

[Raefindel]

Welcome to the Downs,Aratlithiel .

I enjoyed reading your story. I wish I could get my kids interested in Middle-Earth, but alas, My "voracious reader" is a StarWars fan, and thinks "Mom has lost it".

I am, in fact, the only Tolkien reader in all the genreations of my family (most of which came from Great Brittain, more's the pity.)

[ January 20, 2003: Message edited by: Raefindel ]

[Aratlithiel]

Thank you for your positive feedback. Do you know I can still smell that closet if I close my eyes? I may die a doddering old fool, but I will ALWAYS remember that autumn.

And Child, thanks so much for sending me here. One of the few priviledges of age is that you get to come to a forum where you don't have to wade through the teeny-boppers drooling over Legolas!

[mark12_30]

Aratlithiel,

I read your story to my husband (who enjoys Tolkien very much but is sick of hearing me go on and on and on about it) and even in his jaded, over-elf-exposed state he thoroughly enjoyed your story.

And so did I.

I find it interesting that while there are relatively few Legolas addicts in this (ahem) ever-so-mature-membered thread, there is more than one Frodo addict, although most of-- cough-- (us) --cough -- refrain from swooning. Most of the time.

But... don't get me started on the Balrog. smilies/biggrin.gif (Bethberry will kill me.)

smilies/tongue.gif

[Liriodendron]

Wow! That makes me think of my first reading of LoTR. I needed to escape the real world, and couldn't have found a better place. It was the year after I read the Hobbit for that freshman english, oral book report. In late January, my big brother ( he was 19, I was 15) went out one night and never came home! His Corvair broke down on the highway and he was struck by several vechicals when he got out of the car. It was hit and run, the first car never stopped. smilies/frown.gif My parents crawled into their shell for a good two years after that, and I was left alone to wonder. I picked up FoTR, went to Middle Earth, and stayed there for most of that awful year. I'd just read and reread it, and it never let me down. I was so lucky to have those books for my escape! smilies/smile.gif

[Aratlithiel]

mark12_30 - thanks and I'm glad you (and your husband) enjoyed it. I'm sure my husband can sympathize with yours, the poor guys. My husband likes to tell friends that his wife has no idea where the marriage license might be but can tell you the exact location of each and every piece of Tolkien paraphenalia she owns. smilies/smile.gif

And Liriodendron - what an awful time you must have had. I'm glad you had something to give you solace in such a horrible situation.

[Alphaelin]

Aratlithiel,

How wonderful of your father to pass his 1st editions to you. I almost cried myself when I read about it.

Welcome to the Coming of Age club - I haven't been on here long myself, but have been made to feel very welcome.

[Alphaelin]

Lirodendron,

What a terrible thing for you & your parents to go through. I am also glad you were able to find comfort in your grief.

[mark12_30]

Liriodendron, I can't imagine a trial like that. I'm glad Middle-Earth was there for your solace. I hope your parents also were able to find solace, and healing.

[Raefindel]

Liriodendron, what a sad story! I also read Tolkien after a family tragedy. It was the year I lost my mother to cancer and went to live with my Aunt (who was both physically and verbally abusive). I retreated into my room with a borowed boxed-edition and didn't come out for a year.

[ January 24, 2003: Message edited by: Raefindel ]

[Raefindel]

Ya know, I think we need a support group for the husbands who have lost their wives in Middle-Earth.

[mark12_30]

Mine would join.

[Aratlithiel]

LOL!!

Can your wife recite the Baggins geneology yet has been know to refer to your children as "the tall one," and "the one with brown hair"? Has she tried to convince you that your birthday is September 22nd? Have you caught her rubbing Minoxidil on your feet when you're asleep?

You may be the victim of Middle-earth-wanna-be Syndrome and we want to help. Please call 1-800-426-3253. That's 1-800-GAN-DALF.

[Liriodendron]

Thanks all, that was so long ago.....bad stuff does happen, doesn't it. smilies/frown.gif That's interesting you found an escape from reality in LoTR also Rae. I sure do enjoy reading it just for pure pleasure now. smilies/smile.gif

I can tell whenever my husband is trying to "butter-me-up". He starts talking about Tolkien! Cute! smilies/biggrin.gif My son is almost seven. He fell asleep to the Hobbit last year. (I'll try again) Some of the little boys that visit, stop at my lazy susan with the entire Burger King movie figures display. They like to push the buttons and listen, trying to name all the figures is challenging though. They all seem to get Legolas and Gandalf. They have seen FoTR movie, one even TTT. I would think these a little to long, scary (ugly orcs and violence) and lots of the bits hard to explain. Now my son wants to watch FoTR, I don't know....

[Aratlithiel]

You know, Liriodendron, ordinarily I'm pretty strict with movies that contain violence (more so than sexual references or "potty" humor as my husband calls it) but I have allowed my 5-yr-old to watch this movie and the worst reaction she's had is at the end when Aragorn decapitates the Uruk-hai chieftain and she said, "Oops, popped his head off." She begs daily to watch the DVD and I've actually had to limit how many times a week I'll allow her to see it.

Although some of the action in this film is pretty graphic, I guess I don't have as much of a problem with it as I do with, say Scream or any of the other slasher movies. I consider those gratuitous but don't feel the same about FotR. I would have no problem at all with one of my kids going trick-or-treating as an Uruk-hai or Saruman, but I'd have a serious problem with them going as Freddy Kruger. I have no idea if I'm right or wrong but so far it's worked for me and to each his own.

[The Saucepan Man]

Hello again smilies/smile.gif

I must say that I am very much enjoying reading all your posts, and have found some very moving indeed. I think that our beloved Professor would be delighted with the way that his works have been such a help in times of need.

I can't say that LotR has ever really been an "escape" for me, other than in the usual sense of escaping the normality of real life into an exciting world of adventure and great deeds.

I have started reading the Silmarillion, and I am thoroughly enjoying it, although I find it very different (and not quite as absorbing) as LotR. I should have read more, but I'm spending too much time on this site at the moment! smilies/rolleyes.gif

Ya know, I think we need a support group for the husbands who have lost their wives in Middle-Earth.

smilies/biggrin.gif I think that my wife needs a support group for wives who have lost their husbands to the Barrow Downs!

[ January 24, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]

[Raefindel]

I was gonna suggest we call it "Entmoot" but I guess if the ladies were involved, that wouldn't work now, would it? smilies/tongue.gif

Have you caught her rubbing Minoxidil on your feet when you're asleep?


That was a kick, Aratlithiel! smilies/cool.gif

[ January 24, 2003: Message edited by: Raefindel ]

[littlemanpoet]

I can't stand to see this thread wither on the vine. And I found Mark/Helen's inspiring set of questions.

A question I'm fond of asking: how has Tolkien's works affected your world view and your framework of belief? Tolkien has said that he setout to write a myth, and his concept of myth was a vehicle to let the truth shine through. Have any of you experienced that, and to what degree?

To put a completley different twist on the question, is there something from Tolkien's work that you always wished that you could do or be (maybe you role-play it even now) and what about that reflects what you want or wish for, or strive for, or pursue?

Does that reveal something about Tolkien, something about you, or both?

My world view? I come from a protestant Calvinist tradition which is constantly talking about "world view", but its discussion of it is always tied to the limited sphere of theology. Tolkien (and Lewis) breathed life into what otherwise would have been a rather deadish world view.

Tolkien's stories baptized my imagination, and the way that he did so was to introduce "incarnational reality". I could go on and on.

I'm out of time, for now.

[littlemanpoet]

Tolkien has said that he setout to write a myth, and his concept of myth was a vehicle to let the truth shine through. Have any of you experienced that, and to what degree?

I suppose my last post didn't make a whole lot of sense. For me, Helen, your question has to do with what I believe about God. My religious tradition (of which I still am a member, hard to believe!) teaches Predestination and a God whose Wrath is Just and who has all power and controls our lives. At least he sent his son to save us from eternal damnation. But we can't do anything at all, and have to wait for God to even make us believe. I think it would have to be Germanic people who are in love with despair to come up with such a bitter faith. It was cold and despairing for me. Tolkien's Middle Earth opened up reality for me, made it possible for me to hope that there was more to life than my parents' cold faith (they weren't very good at holding to the coldness of it either). I knew in my heart that what was in these books was Real. So Bilbo and Tom Bombadil and the Old Forest and the Shire and Rivendell and Galadriel and Lorien brought warmth - and more importantly, hope - to an otherwise very cold and despairing world view.

[ January 28, 2003: Message edited by: littlemanpoet ]

[Aratlithiel]

OK, littlemanpoet, I'll go with you here...

how has Tolkien's works affected your world view and your framework of belief?

Let's start with the world view: I don't have much confidence in people as a whole and almost none when they get together in large groups and decide upon a leader - a view which Tolkien never iterates, but one I feel he might have held nonetheless. I think people (as a group) are easily lead and tend not to excercise their own intellects when there is another in a position of power whom they feel may be wiser or somehow superior to themselves. By the time those same people realize that the person they've allowed to hold power over them are really no better (and in alot of cases, are far worse) than they are themselves, it's often too late and conflict must ensue. In my view, this is illustrated through how easily Tolkien's characters (Men especially, but certainly Elves as well) succumb to the guile of Morgoth, Sauron and Saruman.

That being said, let's get a little more personal. For me, Tolkien's work has actually fit very well within the framework of belief that had already existed in my life. I found validation for my own points of view in Tolkien's writings, ie., no matter how bad things look at one point or another, things have an amazing tendancy to work out somehow in the end. Granted, it's often through the struggles of many with conflicting goals and uncommon purposes, but somehow or another, good things almost always come out of evil ones.

is there something from Tolkien's work that you always wished that you could do or be (maybe you role-play it even now) and what about that reflects what you want or wish for, or strive for, or pursue?

Well, I've never role-played, although it has always sounded like something I'd enjoy, but Frodo has been my role-model since I was ten years old. I wish I could believe that I was like him and possessed his courage and iron will, but I know that had that Ring been thrust at me at the council, I would have run screaming and tried to crawl into Gandalf's lap. (I sometimes don't even have enough will-power to put the cookies down for heaven's sake!) But that hasn't stopped me from aspiring to be more like him. I hope this doesn't chafe anyone or sound sacriligious, but when most Christians would ask themselves, "What would Jesus do?," I would instead ask, "What would Frodo do?" I don't mean to imply that Frodo is in any way a Christ-figure to me, it's just that I simply could not possibly aspire to be like Christ and Frodo is (possibly) a more attainable goal for me. I would like to be the kind of person who would take on a task of this nature for selfless reasons and then be thought well of after I was gone.

[Elanor]

Wow, Mark, I have that poster (http://lotrmaps.middle-earth.us/maps/r3t_M92.jpg) ! It's been in my bedroom, wherever I have lived, since I was little. I love it. I used to cover up the Eye though, when I was small, as it gave me nightmares. I've got it in a frame now, as the corners are so tatty and worn.

I first read The Hobbit - or had it read to me, I'm not sure - when I was about six or seven. That was 23 years ago. I then read LotR with my father the following year. We read it aloud, which helped me understand the difficult bits. He likes the books, but isn't as keen as I am now. I really got into LotR after the BBC radio version, which I loved, back in the early 80s. Since then I've read it often, and have read many parts of the Silmarillion, HoME, UT etc, but never managed to really get into them in the same way as I did with the Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.

It's great to hear from some fellow long-term fans. Apart from my father, I don't know anyone else who likes - or who has even read - the books. I definitely plan to read them to my children when, or if, I have any. smilies/biggrin.gif

[ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: Elanor ]

[Liriodendron]

You used to cover up the eye! I love that! Smart girl! smilies/biggrin.gif

[mark12_30]

Y'know, something jogged my memory the other day and I realized-- my fourth grade teacher read a chapter a day every day all year.... Lotsa books... Charlotte's Web, Charlie & The Choc Factory, James and the Giant Peach, The Trumpeter Swan... The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe... and (drumroll).... The Hobbit.

Ooooh, Yeeeeaaaaah.

Really, really cool teacher! Wish I could remember her name...

So I guess I "met" Bilbo two years earlier than I thought I did. I guess I won't "count" the years til I read it myself, though...

[ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Samwise]

Oh...I had elementary school teachers that did that, too, though not the books you list. Sigh. I enjoyed those times. smilies/smile.gif

[Raefindel]

Huh! My third grade teacher read us almost ALL those books!

[mark12_30]

lmp, I can relate. I go to an Assemblies of God church at the moment (hard to believe, but this one is looser than most... I'm a Vineyarder at heart...) there is a small enclave of us who talk about elves and hobbits. My assistant pastor actually came to see TTT with us, and so did the worship pastor. Weeell, shut mah mouth.

Anyway, I have found that looking back through a Tolkienish lens brings some things I had once thought lost to me, back into focus. The Mythos worked for me, is still working, and I wonder if Tolkien looks on and smiles. I hope so.

It makes me want to write. Tolkien and George MacDonald are the reasons Bolco and Noldo materialised; seeing how they let glimpses of the One True Myth shine through their works makes me want to do the same.

[hobbitlass]

I don't qualify to post here since I only discovered Tolkien last year even though I am WELL over 18 years of age myself. But what I wanted to say is that after reading many of your posts I hope you know how lucky you are to have had someone in your life that introduced you to if nothing else great literature. And even supported this love of fantasy.
My parents never could understand why I always had my nose in a book. Even sometimes the same books over the years. Sure they agree reading is fundamental but they forget the fun.
So here I am, trying to play catch-up in all genres of literature. I am not trying to be a big cry-baby, but just to point out that maybe there is someone in your own life you need to call, write or email and thank them.
And don't forget to pay it forward.

[mark12_30]

Good point, hobbitlass. Thanks for the reminder.

[Samwise]

maybe there is someone in your own life you need to call, write or email and thank them.

Sure wish I could. "Merry" moved away after her first and only year here in my hometown. First it was only a town away, then she disappeared. I'd love to hear from her again, and share all the renewed memories that are coming about with the releases of the movies and all. smilies/frown.gif

[Tar-Palantir]

It truly was a long descent through the deepest barrows to find this lovely thread. Thank you for the invitation Estelyn. smilies/smile.gif

All of your tales of Tolkein discovery have been refreshing to read. My own is simple, but meaningful to me. I was given a copy of the hobbit at 10, I am 30 now, and until that point had little interest in reading at all. The Shire and the Hobbits were the most memorable, with the Forest of Mirkwood coming in second. I remember it oh so clearly, turning from the last page right back to the first and beginning again. That summer I must have read it five times, and on occasion thereafter. Maybe two years later I was given LotR and began with Fellowship. I was so scared by the Black Riders that I closed the books and did not open them again for more than a year. I thought, if those things are gonna be chasing the Hobbits through three novels I want no part! Seriously. Afterwards however, I was able to accomplish about three readings, but I would always begin with The Hobbit. As far as I was concerned it is a four book trilogy, if there is such a thing! Anyhow I later attempted the Silm. and did not pass one chapter before retiring it.

That was it until just late last year. I have now reread The Hobbit, LotR (x2), UT, and am working on the Silm.

Something else - I saw Fellowship in the theater now over 1 year ago, but it wasn't until six months ago that I began the reading again. Without doubt, it is the prescence of the movies and the hype that this has occured.
However, after seeing Fellowship I truly thought "Why did I enjoy this story so much when I was younger?" It had no effect on me. But it had been so long, 15 years or so, I just assumed they must be very similar to the books.

Thanks heavens for the decision to delve in to Tolkein's words again! And thank you to all the Honorable Dead of the Barrow-Downs for educating me and showing me how much more there is to Tolkein than just "fancy tales."

Oh, and much AD&D and many Renaissance Fairs blossomed from my Middle Earth dreams... I won't waste your time with those stories!

Happily haunting the downs,
Tar-Palantir smilies/biggrin.gif

[ January 31, 2003: Message edited by: Tar-Palantir ]

[mark12_30]

Tar-Palantir,

turning from the last page right back to the first and beginning again.

I still do that. smilies/smile.gif

Welcome, and thanks for coming...

[Samwise]

turning from the last page right back to the first and beginning again.
Sigh...I used to do that. Back when I had...now what was that called again http://forum.barrowdowns.com/ubb/icons/icon7.gif ...Oh, yes. TIME. smilies/rolleyes.gif smilies/tongue.gif smilies/rolleyes.gif

#3 Bagshot Row (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Number_3_Bagshot_Row/?yguid=39722730)

[mark12_30]

Samwise, I don't have that much time anymore either... For me it's not a question of time; it's reassurance that when I come back, when I DO have time, they'll still be there, waiting. For a Long-Expected Party...

[Samwise]

*SIGHS* Then of course, there's the fact that I enjoy WRITING my own stories than I do reading more than when I was young. And as for LOTR, well, the first time I read to the end of ROTK it broke my heart, and I could (I thought never) pick it up again. Now, 20 years after I put it down and am in
TTT, I am finding it hard to MAKE myself read 'cause I'm nearing "The Steps of Cirith Ungol", and even though I know what happens afterward, I can't bring myself to read my poor Sam's heart shattered again quite so quickly. smilies/frown.gif

[Guinevere]

I always used to read my favourite books several times. But with no other book as LotR I was quite so spellbound that I couldn't " get out" of it's world again for - hmm, how long is it now? - nearly two years!

When I finished RotK, I walked about in a dreamy, melancholy mood, every now and then picking up the books and browsing through my favourite parts. I then read the appendix, then the Silmarillion, because there were so many intriguing allusions and mysterious things in LotR, that I wanted to know more about.
The Silmarillion puzzled me - not only its style being quite different, but it seemed so incredibly sombre and pessimistic and lacked the hope I found in LotR.
For more information I read Tolkiens biography, and now his letters.
Every time I reread LotR (or part of it) I find new meaning in it. And I always enjoy Tolkiens beautiful language.

[Rumil]

Hello fellow ancient Downers, smilies/smile.gif

I must confess that I have done the 'double', 20ish years since reading LoTR and come of age as a hobbit.

If I remember, Lord of the Rings had always been around on my parents' bookshelf but even though I was (and still am) an avid, not to say addicted, reader I didn't pick it up until a friend in school recommended it. The first time I read LoTR was on holiday in a little cottage in Aberporth, West Wales, on the edge of the sea. Strangely, I read The Hobbit after LotR, curled up in front of the fire at home with a bad case of the flu (thag you very buch!).

In common with many here, I was into D+D ( I still wonder if Balak the Unlucky will ever come out of retirement), AD+D and MERP. Are there any MERP-ers still around? It was an RPG system based on Middle Earth (admittedly fairly shakily at times). My big passion was wargaming, both historical and fantasy-based. I still chuck a few dice on occasions, but rarely wield the paintbrush!

Also, as many here have found, Tolkien has helped me through some bad times. Its like visiting an old friend when you accompany Frodo and co. for a while.

The Downs, and to some extent the films, have re-awakened my Tolkien interests. Its nice to know that there are some like-minded people out there. I still keep in touch with the friend who recommended LotR, and who now writes excellent books on the Roman army. I find that many people at work (a University) like LotR, and have varying opinions on the films, but few are inspired to delve very deeply into the subject.

Hail and well met, fellow Downers,

[Raefindel]

Hail and Well Met, Rumil.

Welcome to the Downs.

I can't imagine what it would be like to come from a family who had LOTR on the bookshelf! How wonderful for you!
I'm rather regarded as a family oddity.
smilies/frown.gif

[Krumbad The Slobberer]

I'm so glad to have found this thread! It's so hard to find Tolkien forums that provide comfy, easy-to-get-out-of chairs, "loaner" reading glasses, and pitchers of Metamucil on every table. smilies/biggrin.gif

My passion for The Professor's works goes back to 1967, when I discovered them my freshman year in college. My then-boyfriend and I hung around with the rest of the campus hippies and 'heads, one of whom noticed me reading Robert Heinlein and asked if I'd read LOTR yet. I bought a copy the next day and have never looked back - still have my beloved (if slightly yellowed) Ballantine paperbacks (1966) with the acid-inspired fantasy art covers that JRRT disliked so much. Then a few years later read The Hobbit, but didn't actually get to The Sil until 2 years ago.

Like most of you probably have, I've re-read LOTR every year since then, until the books started showing the strain and were tucked safely away in the desk drawer. I actually had no idea how popular the books had become until PJ started filming them.

Have looked everywhere, but can't find my old "Frodo Lives" button... smilies/wink.gif

[Raefindel]

Welcome to the Downs,Krumbad The Slobberer

*raises a glass of metamucil* Cheers!

I'm kinda on the younger end of the older crowd, I was 2 years old in '67.

[Samwise]

Yes, welcome. Although I think I still qualify for this thread, smilies/wink.gif (I've said my age, and no one's told me otherwise), I wasn't yet born in '67 (though not TOO long afterward).

[Tar-Palantir]

Welcome to the new posters, there is a comfortable quality to reading posts from the 'older' readers.

Krumbad - I certainly wish I had my original copies. Silly me, thought I need more space on my bookshelf... I too was surprised at the number of fans I found roaming about, ME was always somewhat of a special place for me. Mine, my own, my preciousss... Now I'm glad to meet all these folks who have become my educators, so much was between the lines I didn't see.


Samwise - of course you qualify for this thread, is not this your special year? Is not this the year for Samwise the Brave to "Come of Age"? - (Pun very intended) smilies/wink.gif

[ February 04, 2003: Message edited by: Tar-Palantir ]

[mark12_30]

Esty's original post in this thread said:
So how many of you have been reading LotR and other Tolkien books for at least 18 years?

In order to fill that req, one must be eighteen years plus however many years it took you to be able to read The Hobbit. No hard and fast age rules; but you should have read something by Tolkien during or prior to the year... eh... unhh... gehhh... (abandons counting on fingers and boots calculator accessory) -- ....1985.

(Smoothes grey flyaway strands, dismisses calculator accessory and stretches creaky joints)

[Tar-Palantir]

Apologies Mark if I placed undue concern on your shoulders. Samwise mentioned earlier that she had first read the books twenty years ago and was now 32 years old. I was simply pointing out that since her screenname is a Hobbit's name and 33 is the 'Coming of Age' year for a Hobbit and the thread name is the 'Coming of Age club' ..... well you get the picture.

And for my next trick... smilies/redface.gif

[Raefindel]

It is a point well-taken! Don't you feel special Samwise? I wasn't on the Downs when I "came of age" guess I won't celebrate till I've been on the Downs for 33 years! Or make that 50 since I'm an Elf.

[Samwise]

Oh, dear. Open mouth, insert big fuzzy foot. Sorry about that. Didn't mean to cause any confusion. I'm really good at that , particularly of late....

Hey, I will "Come of age" this year, won't I?
Oh, my...I wonder if Mr. Frodo's thought about that. smilies/biggrin.gif

[mark12_30]

All I was trying to do was assure Samwise that she wasn't about to be tossed for some unmet age minumum, or lack of grey hairs and wrinkles.

That said, Sam-- congrats on the pending celebration. You are going to celebrate, aren't you? *winks at all hobbits on thread* I don't mind another Mathom to add to my collection. Where's the party? How big will it be? Whatcha serving? You could ask Rae for help cooking. She's got a recipe for seed-cake that she needs to try.

Remember the book-collection theme from a few pages back? I've gone off the deep end... started collecting boxed sets of the trilogy. I've got five now, and two more are in the mail, and I'm sniffing around at yet another on ebay.... I could howl, "Mith it's all your fault". But that would hardly be fair. I distinctly remember that when I was a teenager (back in the mists of antiquity) I always used to check out the Tolkien boxed sets on the bookstore shelves, even thought I already had a red one, and wished I could get the gold one too-- and that nice big leather Red Book of Westmarch.

After Fellowship came out last year, the Red Book was the very first that we bought, along with the green-leatherbound Hobbit. But then after I finished the Red Book, my husband started reading it-- and of course I certainly didn't want to discourage THAT, but I just had to reread LOTR and review certain sections, so nothing would do but that I go out and get myself a paperback copy. I picked up the Ringwraith-cover omnibus. Then I decided when the Gandalf-In-Bag-End-cover omnibus came out, I liked that cover too. And then Somebody mentioned old Ballantine Heraldry-boxed sets and ebay in the same post.

Thus began the madness.... What with boxed sets and HoME and related tomes, soon I'll need to clear a fourth shelf. My goodness.

[Birdland]

Somebody mentioned old Ballantine Heraldry-boxed sets and ebay in the same post.
Helen - Don't forget the special edition Ballantine box set, which I got for Christmas, 1972. It was gorgeous, and I wish I had it now, but it was read so much it disintegrated.

Here's a picture:
http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/oop/ballantine_special.jpg

[mark12_30]

**agitated**: Can't see it! Can't see it!

Ahh! There it is! Yes, with those Pauline Baynes illustrations taken from her calendar... That's one of the ones I'm sniffing around ebay for. There's lots of them this week! You could **easily** score one for old times sake, for a low cost. I however have already blown my budget big-time and must wait (or should, don't tempt me.)

But yes, it's on the menu... smilies/biggrin.gif

[ February 05, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Liriodendron]

Verrrry interesting! I think I must leave the Downs at this time! Some important business to attend to! smilies/wink.gif smilies/redface.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

[mark12_30]

Using a sharp knife and some tape, and with a little help from a handy color printer and a Tolkien Artwork site, I've found that certain scout-cookie boxes can be made into handy little slipcases suitable for mass market paperbacks. And if you get determined, slipcases can be made from any decent cardboard to fit any shape book... I now have homemade slipcases for HoME (3 separate ones: one for the first 5 plus Unfinished Tales, all in Mass Market Paperback; another for History of Lord of the Rings, Trade Paperback (wish I'd held out for the official box, but I bought them singly), currently I'm using the box my collector's edition DVD came in for larger hardbacks (currently holding 2 and waiting for 2 more, but in the meantime the Sil and an omnibus are parked there. ) There's another homemade slipcase for my paperback omnibus, decorated to look like The Red Book.

I've also reverted to my old high school and college habit of covering my books (folding only, no tape touching the book itself.) Only now, with help from a scanner and color-printer, I can cover 'em with a dustjacket almost identical to the original cover.

Sometimes I even cover the homemade dust-cover with clear contact paper. To quote Mith-- sick, eh? It does eat up time but it's fun. Printing to do, gotta go.

[ February 08, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[mark12_30]

Liriodendron, did you snag a set?

(...why does your name make me think of an evergreen flowering shrub? Very botanical-sounding, and hence, more elvish than ever.)

[Liriodendron]

No, I got lost in the shuffle! It's been a bad week, colds turning to pnuemonia, sinus infections, snow after snow, and the worst....the total screw up of the made-to-order cellular shades incident! "shudder" smilies/eek.gif . Anyway, I will recover and get back! Liriodendron Tulipifera is the scientific name of the Tulip tree! You were right on track there!

[mark12_30]

Liriodendron-- Pneumonia and sinus infections.... Yoiks! Or is that "Ai, Ai!"... No Balrogs showed, up, I hope. What cellular...?

What exatly does a tulip tree look like? It's *not* a magnolia, right? I've heard them confused, and folks arguing.


Sharon, C7A, I just bought a copy of the 1988 annotated hobbit-- even though my new one from Amazon has already shipped. Are you corrupting me??
No, I've also bought an old hardbound Hobbit even though I have a recent one, and an old Smith of Wooton major ven though I have a recent one, and an old Silmarillion even though I have a recent one-- just 'cause I wanted the old one that I had when I was...--- wanted an old one just because-- hey, wait! It WAS you! CAMI!!!

--indignant, led-astray, wide-eyed innocent Gamba

[ February 09, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Child of the 7th Age]

Now, Gamba.....you must take responsibility for your own actions!!!

Hey, Cami came up with a little find this week....I stumbled on a library sale. I picked up a first edition, first printing of the British Silm. And a Folio Society Hobbit from 2002. All for a grand total of $10, in quite good shake(at least by my standards). Yeah!

[Liriodendron]

A tulip tree reminds me of a "poor man's" Mallorn! They grow very straight and tall. The branches are not overly long or "bendy" and grow out in neatly spaced intervals from the main trunk. They would be perfect for flet building! The leaves are largish, they look sort of like a sycamore leave, only smooth, not jagged. They have a small, orange flower in the spring, that resembles a tulip. You usually don't notice them, except when they litter the ground under the tree for a brief period. I planted a few nine years ago and they are at least 30 feet tall already! (Cellular shades are expensive window shades that give an "insulating" layer to windows.) smilies/smile.gif

I like the $3.95 price on my old hardbound Hobbit! The paperbacks must have been $.95!

[ February 09, 2003: Message edited by: Liriodendron ]

[Raefindel]

http://arnica.csustan.edu/photos/800/Liriodendron_tulipifera_1.jpg

Liriodendron- Tuliptree

[Liriodendron]

How nice! That's the flower, You can see a bit of a small leaf there too. I really think the leaves are lovely! Cheers!

[Mithadan]

I like your local library better than mine, Child.

Gilthalion still hasn't checked in here? Time to bump this thread up then.

[Gilthalion]

Thanks for the bump! (An odd thing happened. I was reading this thread and then wound up on the WINTER thread, and posted to it!)

REPRISE:

I'm sure I could never catch up with everything, but let me hit a few points:
I began my reading of Tolkien back in 1977-78. There was a fellow in our Algebra class who was reading FOTR. I was surprised to see him actually READING A BOOK, first of all, and so I wondered what it was. He told me. I looked into matters and saw that TH came first, so I checked it out that afternoon at the local library. Soon I had read TH and LOTR.

Since then, I've read them both, and then the SIL when it came out in paperback, almost every year. Last year, I read TH and LOTR aloud to my wife (see link in sig for RealAudio samples). So I've read LOTR on the order of 20 times, though I've lost an exact count. My late 70's paperbacks, the ones with the Tolkien watercolors, are falling to pieces. I have newer editions of TH, LOTR, and the SIL. Like Red (Hi!) I've also read LOST TALES and am working my way through the HOME as leisure permits.

I have a little leisure at the moment. As long time Barrow-wights are aware, I have been away for a while. This brings me to the second main theme of this thread, where am I in the journey?

(BTW, check out the little map to the side of this post...)

I suppose I am leaving Rivendell, in a way. Last September and December I had surgery, and the Mrs also had surgery in December, and we're really just getting back to speed. (Thanks to the healing virtues of the elves at Springhill Memorial and Mobile Infirmary!)

My laboratory technician job ran dry this past Friday, so I've been putting in applications this morning for new work. Moria may lie ahead. Caradhras is not far (finding a job in Mobile, AL in the 4th year of a local recession may not be easy).

I introduced Choctaw County to D&D shortly after reading Tolkien, perhaps before the second reading. AD&D followed. I've played both sides of the table, and enjoyed it immensely.

I noticed that several of you oldsters are writing your own works! I invite you to check my signature for a link to THE HOBBITS, an LOTR sequel buried here on the Downs. (I'll be looking in on Bolco as time permits!) It's had some good reviews. The old Barrow-Wight himself informs me that 40-something people were reading it last week alone.

I'm presently working on a post-apocalyptic fantasy (according to Tolkien's notion of a Fairy Tale) based on certain Jewish/Christian notions of the Millennial Kingdom. ETA: Christmas 2003. Publish Date: ??? Financial Remuneration: (Probably diddly-squat! Hey, Mithadan! Do you represent would-be authors? You could probably pick up some business on this thread!)

EDITS (Now that I've read the actual thread!)

Little Man Poet
Regarding Calvinism: One of our large Baptist churches down here just kicked out a pastor who is part of a concerted effort to take over the denomination by a conservative Calvinist contingent. The doctrines make Free Will and Grace of no value and (to my mind) also make the Crucifixion needless.

On the worldview question, I found a great overall resonance with Tolkien, rather than any particular change in my way of thinking. Even so, it was (in its fashion) a validation of Truth through the years as my understanding and appreciation grew.

Through the years, the subtleties of the richly layered work reveal themselves in new and fascinating ways. The man was a great genius it seems to me, as deepening maturity and lengthening study ever reveal unknown facets of his understanding, clarity, imagination, faith, and character.

[ February 10, 2003: Message edited by: Gilthalion ]

[mark12_30]

Happy anniversary to Rae
happy anniversary to Rae...

[Raefindel]

Awww! Thank You! smilies/biggrin.gif smilies/biggrin.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Sharon, C7A, I just bought a copy of the 1988 annotated hobbit-- even though my new one from Amazon has already shipped.

Annotated Hobbit?! What's an annotated Hobbit like? smilies/tongue.gif (Still using my ragged 1977 copy)

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Hullo to you all.

I've been enjoying this thread immensely, but I didn't want to post until I was happy in my own mind that I belong here.

To my lasting shame I can't remember when I first encountered Tolkien: it feels as though he's been a part of my life forever. But my copy of The Hobbit (a gift from my parents) is the 1983 impression, and my mother, whose memory of even the most trivial events in my life is staggering, agrees that this was a gift for Christmas, probably in 1984.

I also remember with some fondness turning up an old paperback of The Lord of the Rings unexpectedly at a relative's house at about the same time. The relative in question is not one of whom I am particularly fond, being someone with no appreciation of the sort of things about which Tolkien wrote. Most of us agree that it must have been bought for a literature course and not read since.

I appropriated this book. It was a poor copy: an all-in-one edition too poorly bound to support the weight of its own pages, with a horrible yellow and orange cover and without the appendices on languages; but it lasted me until I could buy a decent HarperCollins hardback edition. My memory, though, is of having begun my association with Tolkien by reading The Hobbit, aged 8. I scrape into this club by the skin of my teeth.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Hello Mr. Rudh, and welcome to the thread.

After reading your post I was just wondering if LoTR fostered a love for reading in those of us who read it as kids.

The Phantom Tollbooth did that for me, but LoTR definitely, definitely cast it in stone.

[lindil]

welcome to the Thread of the AncientsSquatter and Gilthalion!

It certainly does have a different feel than all of those 'mixed age' threads!

[ February 19, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I was just wondering if LoTR fostered a love for reading in those of us who read it as kids.

Actually I couldn't really get to grips with The Lord of the Rings until I was about 14; and the first time I think I really appreciated the full depth of the book was probably when I read it on an Air Training Corps summer camp in the summer of my eighteenth year. I can still remember that while others loudly exchanged dirty jokes and banter, or listened to Walkmen, I was reading The Two Towers.

I remember this because I was reading the cheap paperback I mentioned earlier: it had long since given up the ghost, despite my attempts to hold it together with tape, fabric glue and, in a fit of desperation, epoxy resin. The middle of the book had fallen out in two big clumps, and half-way through Treebeard was a page that hadn't been able to decide which way to jump, so reading that chapter tended to be rather difficult.

In answer to your question, then; I had already been bitten by the reading bug before I got to school, let alone discovered Tolkien. However, as I've grown older and (hopefully) wiser I've only come to appreciate his writings and philosophy more and more. I find that he makes me appreciate my gift of reading, and the richness of the English language and its literature, for which I am indebted to him.

[EDIT] In my haste to submit the above I neglected to thank you for your greeting, lindil. Well met!

It certainly does have a different feel than all of those 'mixed age' threads!

Conversations, like water, tend to find their own level, old boy. Clearly ours has found its way into a deeper pool. smilies/wink.gif

[ February 19, 2003: Message edited by: Squatter of Amon Rudh ]

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Welcome to the clubhouse, one and all! I have been a rather negligent hostess of late, since my other responsibilites have kept me busy, but I never miss a post on this thread. I've pointed some of you in this direction when clues in other posts led me to believe that you were eligible, and I'm happy that so many are enjoying the cozy atmosphere. So pull your rocking chairs up to the fireplace, bring your vintage books, your stories and links and keep on having a good time!

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

My only vintage book is my copy of The Silmarillion, the story of which ties in rather nicely with my last post.

During that camp, at RAF Shawbury, our intrepid band of callow young Air Cadets was unleashed on the small village for which the airfield is named with five pounds' spending money each, courtesy of Her Majesty's Government. Being who I am, I immediately gravitated to a second-hand bookshop where, to my joy, was an old copy with a royal blue cover that bears a large drawing of Lúthien Tinúviel's symbol, designed by Tolkien himself. On the back cover are similar designs, also in his unique style; namely the symbols of (left to right, top to bottom) Fingolfin, Eärendil, Idril Celebrindal, Elwë and, of course, Fëanor, all in glorious pastel technicolour.

Since I had never read The Silmarillion, and since the volume was being sold at the ridiculous price of £3.75 (the price is still written in the flyleaf in pencil) I bought this work, which I resolved to begin reading as soon as I had finished the current reading of The Lord of the Rings.

Imagine my joy when, instead of the monochrome, single-page maps in my Lord of the Rings, this work had at the back a fold-out A-3 colour map of Beleriand. Not only that, but the map depicting the territories of the Noldorin lords was also in red as well as black. I suppose that this should have set off alarm bells, but I was happy just to have so fantastic a book.

It was only several years later, when examining the frontispiece (for some reason, Tolkien's legends interested me more than the date of publication smilies/wink.gif ), that I realised that my copy is from 1977. It isn't a George Allen and Unwin first edition, but it's the next best thing: a Book Club Associates licenced reprint. It's one of my most treasured possessions.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

this work had at the back a fold-out A-3 color map of Beleriand. Not only that, but the map depicting the territories of the Noldorin lords was also in red as well as black.
Oh I’m so jealous. My Silmarillion is in a box somewhere and I haven’t located it yet. I’m reading Unfinished Tales and missed having a map of Beleriand handy. (Yours sounds worthy of being framed!) At any rate I eventually found one I could download, reduce and plot out. It has been serving as a bookmark these days! Very greatful to the person who took the time to put it out on the Internet!

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

If you like I could see if the Barrow-Wight will agree to put a scanned picture of the map on the main site. We have a scanner and it would seem an appropriate thing to have there.

When I say "colour" I do, of course, mean red and black, as with all the maps in the first editions. It's quite irksome at times, due to the care that I have to take in folding and unfolding it.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

I just checked and under the Tolkien links section for maps and the site I visited was there.

It sounds as though the one you have might be the same I down loaded! The only problem with scaling it down is that the print gets oh so small, but I imagine that a larger one would get worn from refering to it so much!

Yes, it would be nice if this site had its own map section.

[Raefindel]

Welcome to the Club, Squatter.

[Alatáriël Lossëhelin]

I just found this thread. It's so nice to find other vintage Tolkein fans. A friend first loaned me a copy of The Hobbit in 1966. I was 15. I stayed up all that night reading it. I was able to borrow The Fellowship (from the same friend) right away but then had to wait several weeks each for the other two books. There was one set of books that were making the rounds within a small group of friends. Unfortunately, the others ahead of me were much slower about finishing. I later purchased my own copies. I still have my original (totally battered) Ballentine copy of The Hobbit, the
psychedelic paperbacks of LotR that someone scanned earlier, as well as a couple of other paperback & hardback sets. My most prized copy is a first edition collectors edition of LotR that I bought years ago.
I've tried several times in years past to read the Silmarillion, but found myself unable to keep track of who was related to who and lived where. I've been re-reading it again recently, and discovered that if I make up charts & lists I don't get quite as lost.
I look forward to spending time with all you fellow "geezers"!

[mark12_30]

Welcome, Alatáriël !

Vintage Tolkien fans
What a nice way to describe this list. Golly, I feel all bubbly inside. (Don't let the dust on the bottle fool you?)

ps. I **love** your sig. It has always struck me as one of the saddest lines in the whole trilogy, after Sam's forlorn "And I can't come."

[ February 23, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Aratlithiel]

Welcome, Alatáriël.

My son found it very helpful to chart the journeys of the individuals in the trilogy - it helped him enormously in keeping track of who was doing what and where on any given day. He took a copy of the map, plotted the locations of the Fellowship and used the descriptions in the timeline to record their actions and whereabouts. He then drew lines connecting the dates on the various paths to illustrate what each individual was doing and how it was related to the other Fellowship members.

For instance, on March 2nd, he plotted Frodo @ the Marshes, Gandalf, Aragorn, Gimli and Theoden @ Edoras and Merry & Pippin in Fangorn - then connected them all with lines to show what each of them were doing on that particular day. It was alot of work but the end product is (although a little messy) very interesting and sort of gives one a new perspective on the overall view.

Now, if I could only get him to put that much effort into his homework...sigh.

[ February 23, 2003: Message edited by: Aratlithiel ]

[mark12_30]

Aratlithiel,

Looking back over my own life, I can cheerfully say that hobbits and elves, and Numenoreans, had a deeper impact on me than many (most) of my homework assignments ever did. Don't tell your son I said so-- but if the Trilogy inspires him, I'd say let him run with it; point out the virtues described-- courage, valor, loyalty, dedication, service of the greater good, self-sacrifice, persistance, perseverance... and on and on... and engage your son about those topics. Show him their value.

Far better than your average homework assignment.

[Guinevere]

Hullo, Aralithiel and Aratàriel!

Do you know there exists an Atlas of MiddleEarth, by Karen Wynn Fonstad (1981) ?
I found this extremely useful and interesting while reading LotR and Silmarillion.
There are special maps which show the pathways (with dates) and a lot of regional maps. Specific maps which show the battles (from Beleriand to the LotR) so you can see the attacks, retreats, advances etc of the different armies. (Without those maps I couldn't always figure it out...)

My younger boy, with whom I am now reading LotR, also likes it and wants to check up every detail on the maps. He is only 12 but takes a much larger interest than my 17-year old son. He already knows a lot about the first age too, because he keeps asking me all sorts of questions about it.

[piosenniel]

Guinevere

I am completely enamored of maps. My copy of Fonstad's Atlas is completely dog-eared.

Let me share some of my links with you:

HERE (http://lotrmaps.middle-earth.us/maps.html#THEMAPS)

HERE (http://www.tolkien.homestead.com/Index.html)

& STARS (http://users.cybercity.dk/~bkb1782/tolkien/starsframe.html)

Enjoy!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Many posts ago (page 3 of this thread - I really had to hunt!), there was a link to a site with pictures of the Númenorean tile and the emblems Tolkien drew. Alphaelin mentioned using them for needlepoint designs. That got me started thinking about the possibilities of Tolkien-inspired patchwork. (Yes, I'm too impatient for needlework and have chosen something faster for my forays into the textile arts. smilies/wink.gif ) Most of the designs are not suitable for sewn patchwork, since they have curved patterns which could only be appliqued. However, one of the designs for Lúthien Tinúviel (the one with the dark, starred background) is basically a nine-patch pattern, and I think I can do a version which will come close enough to be recognizable. Yay, great excuse to go fabric shopping!

Oh dear, does anyone even know what I’m talking about, and if so, does it really interest anyone?? smilies/rolleyes.gif Oh well, when it’s done, I will put up a picture for all to see.

[mark12_30]

Sort of like quilting, right? Way beyond my skill level, but a stunning art form when done well. I'm looking forward to the picture!

[Liriodendron]

Sounds like a wonderful way to while away all this snow! I was just looking at a embroidery sampler I made, that is framed up and displayed in the living room. I did it from a kit, but was thinking the "Three rings for the elven kings" would look great, with vines and some other neat stuff up the sides. I did my clothes in high school, why not a lovely sampler now! I have JRR Tolkien, "Artist and Illustrator" so I could probably get ideas for borderwork there. Just think what a funny entry that would be in the 4-H fair this summer! smilies/cool.gif

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

I remember drawing out the tiles on plastic and coloring them in so I could hang them in my window. They got rather faded. It would be nice to do them properly in stained glass!

Piosenniel, thanks for the links. I can hardly wait to check out the stars more closely! The first link also showed a poster I had back in high school. (The one on the right.) Nice to see an old friend!

[Samwise]

Many posts ago (page 3 of this thread - I really had to hunt!), there was a link to a site with pictures of the Númenorean tile and the emblems Tolkien drew. Alphaelin mentioned using them for needlepoint designs. That got me started thinking about the possibilities of Tolkien-inspired patchwork. (Yes, I'm too impatient for needlework and have chosen something faster for my forays into the textile arts.

Ooh...wonder if they could be done in counted cross stitch... smilies/wink.gif

[Alatáriël Lossëhelin]

Aratlithiel -- My son (who is almost 31 now) never spent the amount of time on schoolwork that he did on other, less "academic" endeavors while in school either. School always bored him. It was frustrating at the time, especially when he dropped out in his senior year and left home, but I'm proud of the way he has finally turned out.

Guinevere -- Is the Middle Earth Atlas still in print? Could I find it at, say, Barnes & Noble, or would I have to check eBay? I would rather have the text itself rather than download/print from the internet. The book would be awesome.

[mark12_30]

Birdie, you wrote:
Helen - Don't forget the special edition Ballantine box set, which I got for Christmas, 1972. It was gorgeous, and I wish I had it now, but it was read so much it disintegrated.

The collection groweth apace...

And speaking of the Atlas, it is still in print, and any decent bookstore will be happy and delighted to order it for you-- if it is not waiting impatiently in the store and pining to go home with you.

Or... try Amazon.
or www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com (http://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com)

Karen Wynn Fonstad
The Atlas of Middle-Earth
isbn 0-618-12699-6

[ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Pukel-Man]

I first read TH in 1977 and the trilogy in 79 or 80 so I'll make the cut despite my own disbelief ( I've been reading these books that long?-If I only had such dedication in other aspects of my life!)
On the subject of books, is there a special type of glue that should be used to repair them? My well worn boxed set from 1981 is falling apart, the pages have separated from the binding, but I will NOT throw them out! I'm sure most of you can understand this- I am loath to throw away tomes of any sort, least of all Tolkien

[Alatáriël Lossëhelin]

Helen: Thank you. I will check out Barnes & Noble on my way home tonight. I hope it's actually on the shelves so I can start using it right away.

[Alphaelin]

Piosenniel, what wonderful sites - thanks for the links.

The maps of Beleriand should be quite helpful - I have read The Sil. several times, but always get confused about the geography.

Argh, I'm late to ballet class - must go!