(sp?): The Phantom Menace

[Rimbaud]

Rimbaud's Annoying Habitometer is beeping incessantly, telling him a new foible has arisen and he must address it immediately.

Rimbaud the Merciless does not condone lazy posting. When writing a long word or name, such as Marileangorifurnimaluim or others of great length and/or capacity to confuse, writing the odious _(sp?)_ afterwards does not excuse your mistake (if indeed you have made one).

It is that last qualifier that irks me especially. To make an unseen error in a post is understandable, typos are common and in a medium of this nature, almost unavoidable...but to notice that you may have made a mistake and not to correct it seems like apathy of the highest order.

Look the word up, and spell it correctly, if you are not sure. Then you will have learned something, as well as having imparted your knowledge correctly.

The next person to scribe (sp?) shall be destroyed by a barrage of flaming trout. This I vow.

[ October 11, 2002: Message edited by: Rimbaud ]

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

...And with this mighty oath, Sir Rimbaud, Grand Knight of the Dictionary, laid down his fearsome challenge. ;)

All those who fear his deadly trout should note that it's a matter of a couple of seconds' work to open another browser window and point it at dictionary.com, which is what I always do if I'm not sure how to spell something. They even have both British and American spellings and you'd be amazed at how the flow of one's prose improves with the removal of parentheses, question marks and little abbreviations. There are even off-line dictionaries that may be consulted without recourse to a browser, and which are tailored to the version of English most prevalent in their country of origin (they use a combination of ink and paper as a storage medium, I believe). The manifold wonders of modern technology never cease to amaze me. (sp?)

[Bêthberry]

Ah, the Fish called Rimbaud schools the unwise. smilies/smile.gif

Ammunition, my good Sir.

http://images.animfactory.com/animations/animals/fish/big_fish_swimming_md_wht.gif

Battle resource, fall back position to Squatter's troups: Online Dictionary (http://www.m-w.com/)

Bethberry

[ October 10, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

[piosenniel]

Long posters, please remember that you can use the WORD program, with 'Spell Check' as an initial editor, to craft your replies.

Polish your gems, and present them to us in all their glory!

[Maikadilwen]

This makes me think about the always returning mistakes that makes my toes curl smilies/wink.gif every time I see them, such as:

their/there, your/you're, then/than and so on.

Anyway, I have yet to find an online dictionary that works from Danish to English.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Try this one:

http://dictionaries.travlang.com/DanishEnglish/

I don't speak Danish, so I can't vouch for its quality.

[Maikadilwen]

It seems to work to some point. It might be useful. Thank you. smilies/smile.gif

[Bêthberry]

Menacing punc humour (http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Anti-exclamation_20mark_20overuse_20key!!!)

Edit: Okay, I realize this isn't directly related to the (sp) virus, but I think the !!!! is a mutation of said virus (or vice versa). We have a disease syndrome here for which humorous retorts are the most fitting replies.

[ October 11, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

[VanimaEdhel]

*Cheers for Bethberry*

Woo! Thank you so much! The "more than one exclamation point" thing gets to me. Makes us all sound like a bunch of caffeine-addict, chipmunky, *N Sync teeny-bopper, overly-excited creatures...

And: yes: the dictionary is a very powerful item. They also have a spelling dictionary, if you notoriously spell things wrong.

Oh: and if you have even more questions, go to http://www.1000dictionaries.com/english_dictionaries_1.html . It has links to many, many different dictionaries for many, many things (including spelling, grammar, a thesaurus, a quote dictionary, etc.)!

[Elenna]

Personally, I think flaming trout may be too quick. Maybe rabid squirrels.

(Sp) really bothers me too. It shows that you didn't take enough time to make sure your post was correct. I know that some words are hard to spell, but if you can't spell it, maybe you shouldn't use it!

[Rimbaud]

Do you question my choice of weapon, good lady?

*lowers eyebrows menacingly and juggles a suitably aflame piscean*

[Elenna]

Maybe I am, kind sir...

*Elenna unlocks the cage of several red-eyed, foaming-at-the-mouth, screeching squirrels.*

Are you telling me you don't fear this?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

That sounds like a challenge to me. This thread's beginning to get interesting.

[VanimaEdhel]

*Points over to where the Rabbit of Caerbannog is still hunched in his cave*

You guys wanna take that on? Anyone? Aaaand: you first have to answer three questions:
1. What is your name?
2. What is your quest?
3. What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow (African)?

Good luuu-uuuuck...

[HerenIstarion]

Can't answer questions imposed, (especially the last one)

Just let me sit back comfortably and recall my youth, when BD was running on Ezboard. There was such a thing as spellcheck installed + post preview option, which came in handy, especially for the likes of me (i.e. not native speakers). Maybe it is possible to obtain such useful tools for UBB as well?

[ilon]

Ahh, chat and sms have slowly diminished all our spelling capabilities. That's the downside of technology when people want to be faster. Being not some English major would not be an excuse for me to be wrong in my grammar but it's shameful sometimes to not know the correct words, grammar and spelling.

[Maikadilwen]

Indeed chat-spellings are sneaking in everywhere, sometimes forcing me to read a message two or three times before I actually understand what it says. That, of course, is partly caused by the fact that English isn't my native language.

Vanima you know very well that the answer to the third question depends on whether it is carrying a coconut or not!(!!) smilies/wink.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

[Childlike Empress]

I would almost rather people leave their misspellings alone and unmarked. Adding "(sp?)" after a word shows the writer noticedthe mistake but was too lazy to actually do anything about it. Sometimes the word isn't even misspelled....

Maikadilwen, what are you on? It is impossible for a three-ounce bird to carry a one-pound coconut through the air! smilies/biggrin.gif

[Maikadilwen]

Childlike Empress you haven't seen "Monty Python and the quest for the Holy Grail" have you? smilies/biggrin.gif

[Childlike Empress]

But of course I have, Maikadilwen, else I'd have said nothing or at least phrased it differently smilies/smile.gif

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I would like to call your attention to another very annoying bad habit - realizing the senselessness of a post and posting anyway! How often do I read: "I guess I'm not making much sense, but it's late and I'm tired!" Here are three good solutions to that problem:

1. Don't post. If you're too tired to make sense, wait until the next morning. If you're afraid to lose those valuable, though scatterbrained, thoughts, type them into your word processing program and save them - that makes it easy to do a spellcheck on them the next day too. Or just jot them down on a piece of paper, the way Tolkien himself took notes of ideas, before thinking them over and making necessary changes.

2. If you feel you must post when tired, check what you wrote the next day and edit it so that it does make sense. Then the above comment is unnecessary.

3. If you wrote it and realize the next day that there's not really any sense to it, delete it! Don't wait for a moderator to do it.

Take pride in your writing; there are enough posts on the forum that make very little sense - and the authors didn't even notice!

[Maikadilwen]

Good point Estelyn.

I think one of the reasons why many people are posting even though they are too tired to make proper sense, is because they are afraid that if they wait, somebody else will come up with the same thoughts and post before them.

Sometimes a post sounds a lot better when you read it over and edit a bit.

Personally, I always read through my posts two or three times, checking for errors before I hit "Add Reply". And then I check it again when it has been added to the page because the post always looks different then.
I think the most important thing when making a post, is to read it through a few times and think "Do I make myself clear? Will other people understand what I am saying?"

Too many people do not take the time to do that and that is why they end up with spelling errors or missing words.
"I am typing too fast" is not a valid excuse for not checking your spelling.

[ October 13, 2002: Message edited by: Maikadilwen ]

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

I just noticed this thread. If you guys chance upon some particularly abhorrent spelling, do please add it to the "Agony of Misspelling" Hall of Shame.

I stole the idea from Merendis' list of misused homophones. What I have are all the misspelled thread titles I could find. I find that particularly appalling - bring on both the flaming trout and rabid squirrels. But we can expand the parameters of the Hall of Shame.

-Maril

[red]

"Your Friend at the End" (http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2002/20021011l.gif)

Laziness is a disease that will not be cured by well-meaning threads such as this. Nice try though.

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Quite true. For example, we are the only ones who will read a thread entitled 'The Agony of Poor Spelling.'

These threads are entirely for those who care, the dwindling cult of English mavens.

Rimbaud on the other hand cleverly disguised this thread under the name "Phantom Menace," which is sure to confuse the 'Star Wars vs. LOTR, who would win?' crowd. They however will flee the moment they realize what they have wandered into.

-Maril

[Alkanoonion]

Boo hiss
This topic is misleading _(sp?)_ smilies/wink.gif , this is not about the "Phantom Menace,"
For shame misleading poor little old me.
I think that it is time for me to flee, before being destroyed by a barrage of flaming a trout and rabid squirrels.

Exit stage left.

[Kithrèna Greenarrow Legolas]

I speak as one of the many who dont have a spell checker on thier computer and didnt know that dictionary.com exisited, and couldent find a FREE online spell checker but I thank you all for the advice.

I am also one of the people here who has realy bad spelling skills (Although I can read any word you throw at Me) and I aplogize for My spelling skills.

[Bêthberry]

And I suppose you have never heard of that ancient relic, a book called Dictionary, KGL?

And Maril, you could always rename your thread, "The Agony and The Ecstasy ..." and you might catch a different crowd. smilies/wink.gif

[ October 14, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

[Elenna]

As an English maven myself, it's a pride issue with me to check words that I don't understand using a *gasp* PRINT DICTIONARY!

KGL, you should take enough pride in your writing to assure that it is spelled correctly.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Laziness is a disease that will not be cured by well-meaning threads such as this. Nice try though.

Too true, réd. I'm not trying to improve the situation, though; I'm here because I like to complain. smilies/wink.gif

And I suppose you have never heard of that ancient relic, a book called Dictionary

I'd just to point out how cheaply those can be picked up: I bought a 1954 copy of the Concise Oxford (let's face it: have any really useful words been added to the language since then?) for about 50p (around 80 cents) at a charity book sale just last week. I also managed to get a copy of Roget's Thesaurus, which is useful for those who have progressed beyond elementary spelling, and have reached the giddy heights of prose style. This volume was acquired for the princely sum of £1.

And Maril, you could always rename
your thread, "The Agony and The Ecstasy ..." and you might catch a different crowd.

Well, it would attract those who enjoyed that biographical novel about Michaelangelo; but I doubt that they have any trouble with their English. Any hormonally overloaded and gramatically challenged fans of Renaissance art would, however, find themselves suitably chastised.

What really depresses me about the entire spelling issue is that the worst offenders are not those for whom English is a second, third or even fourth language, but native speakers. I find it more than a little embarrassing, not to mention surreal, when an English Downer proves to be worse at speaking English than, for example, a German or a Swede. Have these would-be dyslexics no shame?

Since I'm now progressing into a full-fledged rant I'd also like to back Estelyn up in her attack on the "I'm tired" cop-out. In the past I've worked on a serious post for up to an hour, realised that it was going nowhere and abandoned it. Better to waste my time, I reason, than to waste everybody's. When through oversight I do post some utter drivel and someone knocks holes in it, I acknowledge my sloppy research, questionable premise or rambling argument or concede the point quietly. What difference does it make that someone was tired? Does that fact correct their spelling? Does it magically make their argument less rambling or specious? None of us are going to hold one weak submission against them if it's clearly an aberration, and by the same token no little apologies inside the posts will prevent people from resenting the consistent and thoughtless publication of dross.

My suggested punishmnent for such craven idleness is that the perpetrator be made to cut down the mightiest tree in the forest with a herring; possibly being required to make a nice two-level shrubbery as well.

[ilon]

Using a print dictionary should cause you no shame, Elenna. English is a third language for me so I still constantly refer to it when I come across a new word or some meaning that I may need to be refreshed of. Still, every encounter with a new word will always be advantageous to me.

[Kettle of fish]

Cutting down a tree with a de-boned and defrosted herring will be harder and should be reserved for repeat offenders.

[Rimbaud]

I am pleased to report a reduction in the number of additions of (sp?) to posts in the last week, as observed by this humble... observer.

[Bêthberry]

have any really useful words been added to the language since then?

Well, I did once hear a prominent teacher of linguistics attempt to argue for the creation of the first new preposition in over 1000 years with the verb phrase, "would of". *coughs rather loudly* It was over a glass of ale, however. smilies/wink.gif

As to the problem which the following might have: Any hormonally overloaded and gramatically challenged fans ...

Perhaps Maril could spell the word Xtasy? She might also want to consider replacing "Agony" for something more appropriate for a Tolkien forum, "Theogony." smilies/wink.gif

[VanimaEdhel]

Rimbaud! I found the next person you should beat with whatever you decide to beat them with!

On dreams I vaugly(sp) understand what you mean

I'm not saying any names: it's up to you to find them (hint: Middle Earth Mayhem)! LOL...

And: someone who gets an "F" in my book for pronounciation is President GW Bush...no offense to him: he's who I wanted to win, but, when he said "nucular", I kind of fell off the couch laughing...then, of course, I told my friend about it, and she said, "Well...isn't that how it's said?" Then I explained the concept of the word "nuclear" coming from "nucleus" as in the "nucleus" of an atom and all that...

[Elenna]

What I want to know is this: When Saddam Hussein's interpreters are telling him what President Bush is saying in his speech, do they say something like "And here the President grossly butchers his own native tongue?"

What I find ridiculous is that he is representing the American people, and he can't even speak our language! Lindil, I was surprised to hear that you aren't a native English speaker because you write so well. If only our fearless leader took so much care with HIS speech.

[VanimaEdhel]

Elenna, I have a feeling they say something more along the lines of, "Now, the big dork from the United States said..."

Well, maybe in stronger language...

Even if the person they were speaking of is not a big dork or whatever they would call him, I have a feeling the interpretors may use not-nice reference in referring to the people...

[mark12_30]

In terms of leaders, I'd rather have a good man who's not a good speaker than a good speaker who's not a good man. "Nucular" annoys me-- but weighed against other annoying things leaders have done, I can let "Nucular" go and be grateful for the man.

However, we were talking about threads... and since we are celebrating a language professor's work, here, on the Barrow Downs, we should indeed take pride in what we type. We do get the chance to review and edit it. In memory of, and with respect for, the Professor, it's the least we can do.

I am reminded of the beauty and balance of Frodo's prose as he speaks with Faramir in Ithilien; I think that Bilbo would have been very proud. Reading that section makes me want to be eloquent, too. Few other passages in any other work have such an impact on me.

(Thanks, Professor.)

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

I think it was Fidel Castro who said of GW after he was elected: "I hope he's not as stupid as he seems." Talk about blunt. I guess there are advantages to having no diplomatic relations with the US. You don't have to be diplomatic!

Somewhere around here I have a list of 'Bushisms.' A personal favorite is one where he attempted to pronouce a multi-syllabic word three times. And got it wrong each time. In fact, I think it kept getting worse. (Anyone who took potshots at our last President's cigars is gonna have to stand aside as I make fun of Bush.)

[Susan Delgado]

This is a song by John McCutcheon, with the Help of Our Glorious Leader.


Hail to the Chief
Music by John McCutcheon
Words (entirely) by George W. Bush

Spoken:
I was raised in West Texas, pretty near California
Far away from Dad’s home in DC
When I’m talkin’ 'bout myself and
They’re talking 'bout myself
All of us are talkin’ about me
Now some may retort to personal attacks
Take the high horse then claim the low road
But I’m not a revengeful person
I’ll simply respond with this ode

When I delivered the State of the Budget Address
I offered a question or two
How can a man still put food on his family
Will the tollbooth to the middle class become more few?
It’s time to make the pie higher
This idea’s sure to resignate
This is no time to be subliminable
It’s a time to unificate

If there’s more trade, there’s more commerce
And we’ll bring this solution to an end
Even if your business is Hispanically owned
If you speak French or Mexican
We’re working for a hopefuller country
No longer vulcanized
Where humans and fish can coexist
And each act civilized

I think we can agree, the past is over
Still we’re held hostile everywhere
Today we’re not so sure who “they” are
But still, we know that they’re there
No longer inoculated from what is coming
With a foreign-handed foreign policy
Keep good relations with Kosovoans and Grecians
And resist emotionality

We know reading is the basics of learning
And learning…well…I forget the rest
But teach a child to read and he or her
Will be sure to pass a literacy test
So I ask you, “Is our children learning?”
Will we tolerate failed subsidation
Or will this be where wings finally take dream
Not a cufflink of federalization

So if you’re tired of the politics of polls and of principles
It’s time that you join this campaign
We’re looking for women who while serving our country
Never the house will they stain
Where our priorities is our faith
Where a troop can house his family
We’ll find power to power the power of the power plants
No, you’d best not misunderestimate me

Sung:

With every word and every breath
Our language dies a slow, sad death
Hail to the Chief, let’s give him hail
Part Yogi Berra
Part Dan Quayle

©2001 John McCutcheon/Appalsongs (ASCAP)

[ October 15, 2002: Message edited by: Susan Delgado ]

[Estelyn Telcontar]

'nuff off-topic politics here - let's stick to our own issues!

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Hear, hear (note spelling).

[Rimbaud]

Thank you for the heads-up, Vanima. In case any of you are sceptical as to my flaming trout throwing abilities I shall mention that if I see the offensive (sp?) again, I will also come to your house and burn it, with you inside. Not for nothing am I known as the Merciless Eater of Souls.

[Elenna]

And I'll bring my rabid squirrels!

[Bêthberry]

They're on to you, Rim.

He has some kind of problem with authoreties (how the ____ is that spelled? (kings and queens)),


A Commendation of their Qualities. Post Oct. 20, 10:28.

Bb smilies/wink.gif

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

What I think these people need is some sort of a book, containing all of the words they're likely to use, ordered alphabetically and each one accompanied by a brief description of its meaning. Wouldn't that be a good idea? Then we wouldn't have to be unsure of our spelling ever again.

[Bêthberry]

Any drier and you would be a good martini, my dear Squatter.

Bethberry

[Rimbaud]

However, Squatter has always struck me as being stirred and not shaken.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I seldom rate myself higher than methylated spirits, but you're right, Rimbaud: it isn't the done thing to shake a good bottle of Meths. It kills the aroma and causes a fire hazard, I understand.

[Elenna]

Question for Squatter:

Olive or onion?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

With Meths or Martini, Elenna?

Actually I like neither, so they will both do equally badly.

[Childlike Empress]

I find "phiosiphy(sp?)" to be particularly egregious.

[ October 27, 2002: Message edited by: Childlike Empress ]

[Elenna]

Amen. But once I saw Tolkiene(sp?). I fell off my stool in the school's computer lab, I was so shocked. For Heaven's sake, if you can't spell the man's name with some degree of accuracy, adding an (sp?) won't help. I admit, I've switched the e and the i a few times, but only through a typing mistake.

[Childlike Empress]

Furthermore, if they can't spell the name of the man to whom this site is created and maintained, what are they doing here?

[vanwalossien]

After hearing people saying things like "Oh, this thread is great fun" and so on and so forth for some time now, I finally checked it out, and it is fun! I love to complain about, and correct people's spelling I find it more than a little embarrassing, not to mention surreal, when an English Downer proves to be worse at speaking English than, for example, a German or a Swede. Have these would-be dyslexics no shame? True, entirely true. When I misspell something I usually discover it long before I post my reply, and I don't just add (sp)? after it. I'm Norwegian and only started learing English three, almost four, years ago! We were supposed to have English from fifth grade, but our teachers were so bad we didn't learn anything. And I'm often much better at spelling than English Downers. Me, a child of the SMS-generation.. smilies/rolleyes.gif
As for the Bush discussion, I just want to tell you this: In Norway we have a brilliant cartoon called Nemi (look at my avatar). In one of the classic Nemi cartoons Nemi comments that she thinks Douglas Adams writes Bush's speeches. Anyone that have read The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy will know that that's meant as an insult... Not to Adams I mean, you might have noticed that I'm a big fan of him..

[ November 02, 2002: Message edited by: vanwalossien ]

[VanimaEdhel]

Do you know how many "(sp?)" signs I've seen in the past week? I decided not to post them all here...but I laughed every time and considered doing it!

[HerenIstarion]

a bit of fun close to the subject:



Spellcheck Man
Newly Deceased
Posts: 2
(7/13/01 12:51:07 pm)
Re: Technical difficulties?


Don’t worry, young Typo Girl – Spellcheck Man has compassion for all typing-challenged citizens. My true enemies are vile villains like The Abbreviator and Doctor Slang. These cretins ride roughshod over proper spelling conventions, willfully flout the rules of grammar, and do their best to propagate their noxious anti-style through every available medium of human communication. But their evil master plan has been marked by Spellcheck Man; yes, indeed, he has marked it well. His red pen is ready and he will use his fantastic powers of usage and his amazing comprehension of complex sentence structures to correct these fiends whenever and wherever he finds them!

Just call Spellcheck Man if you need assistance, Typo Girl! He’s always happy to help!

As a public service, Spellcheck Man will give you his “Tolkien Word of the Day”. Spellcheck Man thinks Professor Tolkien was a master of the English language – at least by normal human standards – and a good role model for all young citizens to imitate.

Spellcheck Man’s “Tolkien Word of the Day” is haggard, as in this sentence: “In their white faces burned keen and merciless eyes; under their mantles were long grey robes; upon their grey hairs were helms of silver; in their haggard hands were swords of steel.”

“Haggard” is used here as an adjective, and in this context it means “having a worn or emaciated appearance”. To learn more about alternate meanings and grammatical uses of Spellcheck Man’s “Tolkien Word of the Day”, follow one of his favorite links and look it up!

See there, Barrow Wight? Spellcheck Man even has an uncanny ability to stay on topic!

Remember what Spellcheck Man says: don’t let your friends or your peer group pressure you into using improper English or adopting lazy abbreviations into your own vocabulary! Always make sure your subjects and verbs agree! Remember to look both ways before you cross the street!


Edited by: Spellcheck Man at: 7/13/01 3:26:13 pm

==========================================

The Abbreviator
Newly Deceased
Posts: 2
(7/13/01 3:56:55 pm)
Re: Technical difficulties?


Pplz, dontcha listen to the seductious voice of da Spellcheck Man!
Da future is no longa what he's a-preachin. Da future is lies in da abbreviations. On da Net ya cant write nowels like da Spellshaker doez! Hes lyin just when he openuz his mouth, I tell ya. lyin, and foolish. Fer he dont even know his sourcez. He thinks all ya need is words and grammar and spellin. Fool! When ya lack da brainz to use it it is nuttin!
As a long-timey member of da Lugburz bunch, I know it betta:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The word 'haggard', used at II, 315, implies how this happened. It was first used as a noun, to indicate a hawk caught when fully fledged; later it came to mean 'wild, untamed', and to be applied with special reference to a look in the eyes, 'afterwards to the injurious effect upon the countenance of privation, want of rest, fatigue, anxiety, terror or worry'. At this stage it was influenced by 'hag', an old word for witch, and implied also gaunt or fleshless. The Ringwraiths are fleshless and 'faded' from addiction, and privation, and from being caught by Sauron.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


See, fellaz? Da Spellchucka just wants to delude ya. I, on da other hand, am the friend of da people! I help ya! Make yer lifes easier w/ abbreviations, and I help ya w/ da meanin!

===========================================

Spellcheck Man
Newly Deceased
Posts: 4
(7/13/01 4:52:36 pm)
Re: Technical difficulties?


Zounds! Abbreviator, you've taken your ghastly disregard for aesthetics and style to new depths! I'm sorry you've had to witness this blight on your fair cyber-village, citizens of the Downs! But let this be a learning experience for us all! Abbreviations may save you a keystroke here and there -- but at what cost? The bill always comes due sooner or later, and you will have to pay it, with interest.

Don't let yourself end up like The Abbreviator! Compose each post with the loving care that you would use to write a letter to your mother on her birthday! Eat your greens! Use emoticons in moderation!
I'm Spellcheck Man!

[Susan Delgado]

*applause*

[HerenIstarion]

The European Commission have just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the EU (European Union) rather than German, which was the other possibility.
As part of the negotations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5 year phase in plan that would be known as "Euro English". In the first year,"s" will replace the soft "c"..

Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favor of the "k". This should klear up konfusion and keyboards kan have 1 less karakter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replased with the "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20% shorter.

In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible.

Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent "e"'s in the languag is disgrasful, and they should go away.

By the 4th year, peopl wil reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".

During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer.

ZE DREM VIL FINALI KUM TRU!!

Av a nis day!

[Lhunardawen]

That really made me laugh, HerenIstarion. At first I thought you were serious. Then again, maybe you are. :)

By the way, when I first saw the (sp?) thing, I didn't know what it meant. Being the biology-inclined lady that I am, I thought they meant "species"!

[Son of Númenor]

I am resurrecting this topic because I am appalled at some Barrow-downers' lack of interest in doing (admittedly impossible) things like capitalizing names and the first words of sentences, and ending sentences with punctuation instead of nothing. My hope is to get an edict sent down from on high: if not banning corruption of the simplest rules of writing, at least banning things like failing to capitalize the word "I". A first offense could incur a proverbial slap on the wrist; a second, a (literal) slap on the wrist with a flambéed herring; a third, a merciless trout-thrashing; and a fourth, permanent banishment from the Barrow-downs.

Does that sound too stringent for anyone?

[The Saucepan Man]

dont now wot strngiet (sp?) meens butt i fink u r veri krool

[Son of Númenor]

Saucepot (sp?), I'm seeing a new thread coming on: 101 Things Barrow-Downers Would Seemingly Never Post, But Which Have, In Fact, Been Posted.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Behold how the mighty Saucepan Man falls into incomprehensibility when his spell-checker breaks down.

That title's too long and cumbersome, Son of Númenor. I would suggest '100000001 most out-of-character posts', which is at once a paragon of concision and an acknowledgement of the lengths reached by those types of thread.

[Bêthberry]

I greatly fear, Squatter my dear, that the very ones Son wishes to cure would be innured by those very words, "Out of character." Whodda thunk it?: a more popular junket.

Saucepot, indeed! I think you are going to fit right in, Son of Númenor. But watch out for that Bêthburra character.

[HerenIstarion]

ez indikated ebav, in faiv irz it ol wud not meter

[HerenIstarion]

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.

ceehiro

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

You forgot to put '(sp?)' at the end of that, Heren. How will people be able to tell now that you know that you might have made a mistake? :smokin:

As that post demonstrates very effectively, it is possible to understand mis-spelled words, but only for experienced users of the language and only if one's words contain the right letters. Since poor spelling has been described as the Internet equivalent of bad breath, though, it's best to avoid it anyway. Brush your teeth, you Georgian delinquent! ;)

[HerenIstarion]

Having no brush on me, I'm forced to stick to chewing gum, than. It's easy, what with gums being generally sticky anyway.

you Georgian delinquent

Now, do you intend to imply I am of beheaded king's party? It was not me, I was set up, never ever been near the place at all...

:smokin:

PS (sp)

[Mad Baggins]

For heaven's sake, I have people in my tenth-grade class that have the spelling/grammar abilities of sixth-graders. Literally. It frightens me and it makes me wonder if everyone but me has been taken over by brain-sucking extra-terrestrials with poor literary skills.

Getting back on topic now...

I don't like it when people use chatspeak on here. It bothers me. Greatly. Yes, I'll admit that I used to say "lol!" or whatever, but the people that bother me are the ones who say, "Ya i wuz liek noo frodo'z liek sooooo hott." Although I do remember this one time...

[Saraphim]

For heaven's sake, I have people in my tenth-grade class that have the spelling/grammar abilities of sixth-graders. Literally. It frightens me and it makes me wonder if everyone but me has been taken over by brain-sucking extra-terrestrials with poor literary skills.
I've been there, Mad Baggins. Many, many times. Too many times.

What has happened to the intellegence of humanity? Are there so few people in the world who can put a sentence together without butchering and shortening every word? I have become convinced that the only sane people are either on here, incapable of coming on here, or are not (although this is a stretch) interested in coming on here for very, very good reasons.

And the people on here who do participate in the heinous crime of word-butchery will either catch on or plague us with thier...*shudder*...antics.

[Niluial]

Another depressing thing is people no longer have an understanding of words. It worries me when I use simple words (such as optimistic, surreal, nobility etc) when talking to my fellow students and they then ask me to speak English. Surely even nine year olds should have an understanding of those simple words?

My step mom and I like to experiment a lot so we came up with this idea to read to my brothers and cousins this year and only let them watch half an hour of television a day. We have read great classics such as The Hobbit, Alice in Wonderland and Black Beauty to them and intend on reading more. Their English has improved immensely and they do not use as much slang as they used to. I can ask them the meanings of optimistic, surreal & nobility and they can tell me the meanings of these words in an instant. Please note that these are young four, five, seven and eight year olds I am talking about. This shows what television is doing to our knowledge of literature and spelling. Instead of increasing our knowledge of literature and spelling television is increasing our knowledge on slang. But should we be surprised?

Then Imladris pointed out another factor in her Xanga Blog the other day. For example people use the wonderful word ‘hate’ excessively when we really do not mean it. We use hate instead of dislike constantly. Is this human race too lazy to say dislike when it is only two more letters than hate? Of course I can not judge for I am a victim of using ‘hate’ excessively too (though I am trying to kick the habit).

[HerenIstarion]

This shows what television is doing to our knowledge of literature and spelling

Well, that is an ambiguous issue you are dealing with there, Niluial. In my own case, TV improved my knowledge of English. On the other hand, that may be because the only English channel I have is BBC World, and fellows down there are beaming optimism with their nobly surrealistic pronounciation and vocabulary! Even if they display a tendency to wear red ties with blue shirts, that is. But, seriously, what with my mainly reading practice of English, watching BBC does me good, for sure.

[Imladris]

Our society is becoming lazy, plain and simple. Instead of raising our standards, we have lowered them. Thus we have the problem of chat speech and the laziness of not checking our spelling problems.

As Rimbaud hinted in the first post, the BDs should raise the standard and

The next person to scribe (sp?) shall be destroyed by a barrage of flaming trout. This I vow.

[Saraphim]

Er... Perhaps I need a flaming trout of my own. My friend admonishes me for not using chat-speak while on instant messenger and thus slowing our conversation. He says I take the 'instant' out of it.

I say that if I allow myself a single 'lol' or shortened word, it will become habit, and this I cannot allow. He then goes away grumbling about my vocabulary.

Flaming trout are hard to come by in the desert. Perhaps a flaming lizard or pidgeon?:D

[Mad Baggins]

*gives Saraphim a flaming cactus*

Ah, I do that too. I abhor chat-speak, even in instant messenger conversations.

[Lhunardawen]

But chat-speak, when used in moderation and in appropriate situations, can be helpful. Personally, I find it weird when people send text messages (the ones sent by cellular phone) that contain ultra-long words that could have been simplified. Besides, it would be very helpful when one is in a hurry and needs to relay a message as soon as possible. Then chat-speak would be a great help, as long as the words are still decipherable.

However, meaning no offense to anyone, I suppose some Downers, especially when they are posting in a great hurry, tend to use chat-speak-- and inappropriately, since this is supposed to be a forum. Honestly, seeing words that have some letters inverted are annoying. Like "hte", for example. That brings me to a proposal that one should not post in haste, unless the person is willing to spend a little time to read through the post before clicking "Submit Reply". Or if the person has perfect typing skills...

[Rimbaud]

...and the cacti is not for burning. (Anyone? *sigh*)

This is freshly dug...

There was a certain purpose to this thread, which was not only to encourage some effort toward accuracy, but also to bolster the collective will of those who cherish the correct use of language; those who do not see the internet as the beginning of the end for efficient and eloquent linguistics, but another medium to which certain standards are equally as applicable.

With all due respect to my chosen weaponry of the first post (and numerous other helpful suggestions since), the best remedy for a carelessly spelt, punctuated or (sp)-ed post may be a quiet word in the ear of the culprit. Just so long as the word is 'Duck, Rimbaud's approaching and that fish seems warm.'

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

It could be clamour for SaucePan to correct their spellings!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I'll admit that this thread shamed me into becoming a more worthy Barrowdowner. But there are still so many of those (sp?)'s floating about.

The fame of this thread is obviously not as great as I had previously supposed, so I think it needs to be bumped (again).