In the Shadow of the Star: Discussion Thread (Part 1) [Archive] - Page 2

mark12_30

03-07-2003, 07:36 AM

Ooo-kay, I'm just gonna say it. I'm expressing an opinion here, y'all, and it's ignorable, I just have to get it off my chest.

I'm bummed, Pio, about your re-write. I thought that Pio's exhasperation at Lorien was very in-character. I thought she would have been annoyed with him and her act of dumping him out on the doorstep seemed very in-character to me. I wish it was still there. I think Pio is inherently antagonistic to the Valar and I think that peice belonged there.

Cami's resulting angst at Lorien's hungover delivery (sorry Mith) was also very much in-character; how often has Little Andreth railed at the Valar herself?

What was harder to deal with was, Pio heading off into the sunset on horseback; and while I also felt that that was in-character, it does make the plotline a challenge. So I can understand wanting Pio at Amaranthus' house, etc.

I understand that this throws yet another monkey wrench into the last several days' writing and I am not trying to make anybody miserable. I just wanted to say, I miss the scene where Lorien bungles his delivery, Cami is offended and Pio throws Lorien out onto the front stoop. I thought it was entirely in-character for everybody involved (poor confused Vala, but you WERE really soused, man. Howling at the moon? If Pio was annoyed at a teenage hobbit for shenanigans, how much more annoyed would she have been at a supposedly dignified emissary from the West?)

It would still work in my estimation if, in the morning, everybody had pretty much calmed down, and Pio had taken a deep breath and gotten over her irritation and gone to Amaranthus' house.

There, I said it, it's off my chest... and I know I've opened Pandora's box. Slam the lid shut again and throw rotten tomatoes as desired.

ps. A plea for a critical eye: I am enjyoing writing Frodo but it's a bit of a struggle at times. I am trying to find a balance between sensitivity, expressiveness, woundedness, strength, healing, and his wry sense of humor-- WITHOUT sliding over into sappiness. I'm going back to fuss at that last post because I'm dissatisfied with it. So please, if anybody sees something out-of-character in Frodo, and it's still there after a day or so, drop me a line? It's too easy to make Frodo melodramatic, and I hate that. So keep me honest please.

[ March 07, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

Child of the 7th Age

03-07-2003, 08:48 AM

Cami scratches her head in confusion.

OK, I still have the old posts tucked away on word, and I tried to work on new posts last night, but had some problems. I am going to pull down what I wrote and try again.

Whatever people want is fine, but please let me know.

Lorien's news is central to Cami so I need to get her response right. If you need my character for anything, just drag her along until I get things sorted out.

Will let you know when I finish and paste up the missing material.

sharon

[ March 07, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

Mithadan

03-07-2003, 08:57 AM

Yesterday's shifting of plotlines was the result of a misunderstanding. I was surprised at Piosenniel's violent reaction to Lorien's revelation, so I PMed her and others to explain Lorien's conduct. I should have been clearer and asked "Do you want me to change my post?"

Pio interpreted my PM to mean that I was unhappy with her character's reaction (I was not; I was only startled). PMs from others on the issue did not clear up the confusion. So I take credit for the debacle. Lorien can deal with matters either way. Someone choose and we should move forward.

For our younger posters, this sort of thing happens in RPGs. When doing planning or asking questions, your PMs should be clear. Call a spade a spade rather than letting the recipient of your PM decide if you've sent them a spade or a diamond.

Child of the 7th Age

03-07-2003, 10:26 AM

OK, here are my thoughts.

First, I think Pio is the one who should decide which way to take this scene. It is her posts which are the "lead ones" in terms of setting the tone for this particular scene. Cami will adapt to her choice.

Having said this, however, I think we need to make known our preferences and feelings about this sequence to her. I think Mith and Helen have already done that. Bird also raised an earlier question. (Bird, If you have any other feelings on this, please weigh in!) So I guess it's my turn now. Then Pio will have the information she needs to weigh things and make a good decision.

Cami can live with either scenario, especially since Pio may or may not have her original posts. I would definitely not want to ask someone to redo posts yet again if they've already been discarded! That's a no-no!

I also think it's a very legitimate concern not to set up too many detours so the story becomes too lengthy. We all seem to agree on this. So either Cami and Pio stick fairly close to the Inn, or they run off that night and reappear the next morning.

From my personal perspective, it does seem more realistic that Pio would respond negatively to Lorien's message. (If someone told me that a close friend was going to be allowed to spend six weeks with someone they loved, and then be forbidden to see them ever again, I might also be enraged at such a ridiculous situation!)

In the beginning of the story, Pio talks with Cami about Lorien in a way that shows she's very suspicious, both of him in particular and the Valar in general. I think Pio's first response, the one she removed, was truer to that.

We could retain this suspicious element in one of two ways. Door #1: Pio could put back her first post, and throw Lorien out of the Inn. If she does that, Cami will send Lorien down to the deserted burrows with a blanket, etc. She will go trooping down to see him the next day to ask two questions and collect her letter from Maura which the Vala has carelessly thought to deliver.

Door#2: The other alternative would be to leave your existing post, but to insert at least a bit of suspicion into Pio's mind. This could be done in a three sentence paragraph where Pio thinks something like this.....I really don't trust this Vala but I don't want to blow it for my friend, so I'll go along with this, and keep an eye on him. Cami will respond as above, minus the blanket for Lorien.

Or--- Door#3 --- we could simply retain the revised posts that are now in the story. Cami can live with that, although she will comment on how unusually obliging her friend is being, given her usual feelings about the Vala! Cami will put it down to Pio not wanting to blow things for her.

OK, everybody's had a say, so Pio knows how folk think. Now she gets to choose Door #1, #2, or #3!

sharon

[ March 07, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

Child of the 7th Age

03-07-2003, 11:54 AM

Yeah, my first post responding to Lorien is up. I purposely wrote it so it would work with any of the options above just by sticking in an extra paragraph.

Now, I'll have a go at the conversation with Lorien....

mark12_30

03-07-2003, 12:08 PM

small voice: (Will there still be a note?)

(larger voice): Sam (Orual) and Sam's kids, I'm heading up the hill.
Kids, are you coming for the walk?
And Sam, how will you react when Frodo asks for the kids and not for you? Will you firmly insist that he come in when he brings them back? (I think Frodo would like that.)

[ March 07, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

piosenniel

03-07-2003, 12:14 PM

I have everything and the alternate writes saved to floppy.

For me, the main thrust of this story/game is the rent in the fabric of time and Cami's reuniting with Maura. Pio is a sideline character here, the birth and all that incidental.

Having said this, I will also say I am not 'married' or 'invested' in either course of action that I've written. Both were interesting excercises from differing points of view.

Please just decide what the story needs and tell me - I will paste the appropriate post into the appropriate box. (Will also be happy to do a complete rewrite in another vein, if that is what is needed)

I did remove the posts concerning Pio riding to the Shiriff's, since should it be decided that Pio need to gut the Vala and get out of town, someone else will have to spring Mithadan.

[ March 07, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

mark12_30

03-07-2003, 12:30 PM

Pio,

I personally see no need to gut the vala and skip town-- I think Pio could calm down overnight with some reflection on the newness of the vala's "clothing". But can she still be annoyed with him immediately afdter the party, especially about his line delivery? That underscores the difficulty Cami (and therefore Maura) will have in getting used to the idea. If I recall, Cami said she liked that dynamic because it helps her character.

piosenniel

03-07-2003, 12:33 PM

So, shall I put back my original post?

[ March 07, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

mark12_30

03-07-2003, 12:36 PM

(Helen votes) : yes

Child of the 7th Age

03-07-2003, 12:48 PM

This is too funny.......Pio gutting the Vala and having to hightail it out of town.

No, I draw the line there! You have to rescue your husband. Anyways, I just wrote half a post where I responded to the news about the message regarding Mithadan and Hob's wild ride.....as a prelue to talking with Lorien. I clicked the edit button and your post was missing. I thought I was hallucinating!!

OK, since everybody is being so nice and polite, I'll be the one to crack the whip here!!! Here are Cami's marching instructions.

1. I like the "mean" Pio better. Please take out the one where you're being nice to Lorien, and put in the one where you throw him out on his keester. Put it in the same slot. My post is also in that same slot so make sure not to delete it. I can tweek my post slightly to accomodate the following:

1. throwing a blanket and a few scraps of food to Lorien and telling him to go to the abandoned burrows until/if Pio calms down.

2. writing a letter to Frodo about Cami's guilt that she's dragged her friends into this mess.

Helen, you will still get a letter, just slightly modified.

3. Neither Cami or Pio will leave the Inn. They can each slam the door and go sulk in different directions.

4. Pio, put back your last post about rescuing Mithadan. Put it before mine, so mine will make sense.

I will edit my subsequent post slightly so that Cami goes trooping out to the deserted burrow on the Bywater pool and brings Lorien some brunch.

Hehe, I wonder how Mith will respond to his wife's crude treatment of the Vala?

Hope that is ok! If there are any more glitches I've missed, just stick a note here.

sharon

piosenniel

03-07-2003, 01:15 PM

Done - continue on

mark12_30

03-07-2003, 01:56 PM

Pio: Hurray! I like it. Especially the way you added that extra line that wove the twins (defensively but calmly)into your distance from Lorien-- it gives the impression that motherhood might actually calm Pio down somewhat.

piosenniel

03-07-2003, 01:58 PM

Be wary of making that assumption. It is not true.

mark12_30

03-07-2003, 02:00 PM

Hee hee hee. Al right.

Sam, Miz Rose and Gamgee kids: who's going to answer the door?

Orual

03-07-2003, 02:41 PM

If it's okay with everybody else, I'd like to have Sam answer the door. I'm about to leave, so I'll put in a save, and delete it if anybody objects.

~*~Orual~*~

Child of the 7th Age

03-07-2003, 03:20 PM

Orual,

Looks good.

Everyone,

I have filled in three of the back posts regarding Cami and Lorien. They practically wrote themselves. It is so much easier to rant!

I have one more to go--Cami's conversation with the Vala. Mith---if I do something awful to your character, please let me know and I'll edit. I probably won't get this post up till tomorrow evening, but I don't expect it to be a problem.

Helen--look at the letter to Frodo. I changed it slightly.

sharon

mark12_30

03-07-2003, 03:22 PM

Orual: I keep getting confused about the list of Sam's kids. The Encyclopaedia of Arda has this list:

Elanor
Frodo
Rose
Merry
Pippin
Goldilocks
Hamfast
Daisy (gestating).

Not yet conceived:
Primrose
Bilbo
Ruby
Robin
Tolman

Is that list correct? Since I don't have a copy of LOTR at work (I'd never get anything done if I did) I get stuck when I'm doing lunchtime posts...

piosenniel

03-07-2003, 03:35 PM

Ages of Sam's children:

Elanor - 12
Frodo - 10
Rose - 8
Merry - 6
Pippin - 4
Goldilocks - 2
Hamfast - 1
Daisy (gestating - dob: 1433)

Dates of birth for the others:

Primrose - 1435
Bilbo - 1436
Ruby - 1438
Robin - 1440
Tolman (Tom) - 1442

Mithadan

03-07-2003, 04:18 PM

Hasn't anyone ever heard of not slying the messesnger? Geez. smilies/wink.gif

mark12_30

03-07-2003, 04:31 PM

Well, you ARE a Vala, so you'd just sort of evaporate anyway. Which would be interesting to watch... Pio?

Rose Cotton

03-07-2003, 05:23 PM

Who will be going on the walk with Frodo?

Orual

03-07-2003, 06:34 PM

Helen--

I didn't include Frodo's reply to Sam's invitation in my post. If you want to just PM it to me, I could add it to my post, or I could just write it up. Either way. Just let me know!

~*~Orual~*~

mark12_30

03-08-2003, 12:17 AM

Frodo wil take as many kids on the walk as he can get.

piosenniel

03-08-2003, 05:28 AM

Thought I'd give make a list of Hobbits working at the Green Dragon:

Primrose "Prim" Bolger - took over as Innkeeper from Pio - not married

Ruby Burrows - server at the Inn and Prim's assistant - not married

Hob Hamfast - Inn's stablemaster, married to Minta Chubb - newlyweds, no children yet

"Cook" (Vinca Bunce) - widowed

Buttercup Brownlock - not married

All from Hobbiton/Bywater area

ArwenBaggins

03-08-2003, 09:22 AM

I just put up a save spot after Mark12_30. In this post Elanor will let her curiosity take the better of her. I am going to see tTT now, but when I get back I will type a post and put it in.

mark12_30

03-08-2003, 09:52 AM

ArwenBaggins, very nice post!

Child of the 7th Age

03-08-2003, 11:56 AM

Hey, Frodo and hobbit children. Cami is at Lorien's new burrow cleaning. She sure could use some help!

Cami

piosenniel

03-08-2003, 04:07 PM

Nurumaiel

Well done post!

Pio will be asking for you and Peony to see her this coming week sometime to discuss what needs to be done to prepare for the birth.

Bring the children - Hob and his wife Minta can get to know them.

mark12_30

03-08-2003, 09:19 PM

While the children pamper Lorien, Frodo and Cami are out talking on the bank of the pond. We've been out for a while; I wonder if Sam is getting restless. Mith, any special requests for next time we come and vbisit Lorien? Or would you like to add something in at this point?

Orual: I finally buckled, and today I shelled out the cost of the book that has the floor plan of Bag End. I scanned it in, and set it on my website:
first page of Bag End (http://members.cox.net/hrwright61/BagEndH1.jpg)

and
second page of Bag End (http://members.cox.net/hrwright61/BagEndH2.jpg)

I figured this would help a great deal. I love the movie set, and this is the floor plan for it, and more... I'm unaware of a better one, though I'm open to suggestions.

ps. Warning, THEY ARE HUGE!! If anybody just can't get them let me know.

[ March 08, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

Orual

03-08-2003, 09:33 PM

Helen, a thousand thanks! What a labyrinth! I'd been picturing something much simpler, but this makes sense--with eight children (going on thirteen, eventually), Sam needs every one of those spare rooms. What a lovely place--I'd like to live there.

And nearly equally interesting was John Howe's speculation on bathrooms in the Shire. LoL!

Again, many thanks. This will help a lot.

~*~Orual~*~

Rose Cotton

03-08-2003, 10:15 PM

YAY! A frog! Hm...But what should I name it. smilies/wink.gif

mark12_30

03-08-2003, 10:42 PM

Dragoneyes, I talked to Orual, and she likes the idea of Pippin coming to Bag End so that Sam, Frodo and Pippin can all spend some time. So-- let's go for it. You figure out when Pippin can be on the road to Bag End.

I wonder if Bilbo would come too.

Child of the 7th Age

03-09-2003, 12:08 AM

Bilbo will be happy to oblige. When will you do this on the game thread? When would you like Bilbo to appear t Bag-end? Please advise.

sharon

mark12_30

03-09-2003, 12:15 PM

Not sure yet. Frodo and Sam are scheduled for a get-together this afternoon (game time.) I'm waiting on Dragoneyes to tell me what she wants Pippin to do when. I was expecting either this evening or tomorrow, a four- or five- some at Bag End (who's playing Merry these days, Child) and (will Pippin invite Merry to come, Dragoneyes?)

piosenniel

03-09-2003, 01:16 PM

Sharon

Pio is at present (post not up yet) trying to come to some understanding of what she can do to take care of this problem with Lorien she has started with her unthinking response to his announcement.

Can Cami arrange/ mediate some sort of meeting between the two for its resolve.

Mithadan

It would be helpful to me if I had some inkling as to what Lorien's perspective on this is.

piosenniel

03-09-2003, 01:28 PM

Helen -

Anyone can pick up the character of Merry to use in their posts. No one is really playing him.

Will that be alright for your needs?

Or, if you wish, I can pick him up again and post for him.

Mithadan

03-09-2003, 01:44 PM

Lorien has not the slightest clue why everyone is so angry at him. From his perspective, he came for a purpose (which was not his idea and with which he had his doubts), was asked about it by Cami and answered. Pio and Bird happened to be present at the time he was asked.

His delay in speaking of it is attributable to his being unused to the passage of time in the "mortal lands". Nor could he conceive that his "good deed" could be construed as anything other than an act of kindness. What he has brought to the table is the best the Valar could offer and he is shocked at the reception it has received.

His manner of presentation of the offer is a result of both his lack of everyday contact with Men and his use of the Common Tongue. The latter is a language he does not speak in Valinor. While he can use it to communicate, he lacks the expertise to infuse his words with compassion; an analogy is learning a language through books rather than everyday use. Combined with his unfamiliarity with the way Men commonly interact, his words seem cold and imperious.

As for his drunkeness, in Valinor, he could drink a boatload of mead and be pretty much unaffected. The effect that drinking has on his body in Middle Earth is a surprise to him.

Child of the 7th Age

03-09-2003, 01:48 PM

Good idea, Pio.

Helen, have Frodo suggest to Cami that she try to set up such a meeting. I will respond positively and take it from there.

I have revised the Bilbo post to broach a later theme and repasted it on the thread.

sharon

piosenniel

03-09-2003, 01:52 PM

Would it be possible just to have Pio ride out to find you? Setting up a meeting isn't her style - can this be more spontaneous?

mark12_30

03-09-2003, 01:59 PM

That sounds right to me too, Pio. The tricky part is finding Cami since she didn't tell you where she sent Lorien-- or did she?

piosenniel

03-09-2003, 02:05 PM

Well . . . how about a little osanwë here? surely the headachey Vala must be broadcasting his whereabouts to anyone tuned in.

Pio wouldn't actually ask Cami to assist her. She will be more likely to ride out and find him, then speak with the Vala directly If Cami happens to be there that would be good.

piosenniel

03-09-2003, 05:03 PM

Ignoring the express wishes of her rider, 'Falmar wanders over to Cami and noses her in the back.

Carrot? Apple?, she wonders, and stomps her hoof . . .

Child of the 7th Age

03-09-2003, 08:41 PM

Just got back from an aftenoon at the rodeo....I will answer the door for Pio, and throw my two cents in.

Helen----can I assume that Frodo and crew have left Lorien's burrow. That is what I'll say. If that's wrong and they're still there, please tell me and I'll edit to say they are playing and relaxing in the back.

That was a great ending to Frodo and Cami's conversation! Will leave as is without adding anything.

sharon

mark12_30

03-09-2003, 09:02 PM

Cami-- sure, Frodo and kids can be gone. I need to get them home anyway, and sit down with Sam. Poor Bilbo is alone all this time! I wonder how he's doing.

Child of the 7th Age

03-09-2003, 09:12 PM

I added the goodbyes at the end of your own post, after the children helped to clean the burrow.

sharon

Child of the 7th Age

03-10-2003, 12:10 AM

Pio or Mithadan (whoever posts next in this sequence),

I've chatted a bit with Pio, and Lorien has just come in the door.

Cami has a request. Her nesting instinct is coming to the fore. (Such instincts are quite strong among hobbits, I believe.) Any chance of getting Lorien invited back into the Inn?

Cami has another idea what to do with that deserted burrow....

You are both welcome to use my character in your posts if it would help bridge the gap between Pio and the Vala.

sharon

piosenniel

03-10-2003, 03:43 AM

Pio has duly apologised and asked forgiveness of Irmo. And better yet, she has extended an invitation to the both of them to come to supper at the Inn.

At this point, if Cami wishes, she can assume that it is alright with Pio that Lorien come back to the Inn. (Or she can run out and ask Pio before she takes off on her horse, and you can have Pio say 'yes'.)

Pio does not assume that this apology will be accepted or the request for forgiveness fulfilled by the Vala. It does set the parameters for the rest of their interactions. She will be gracious and civil to him, but no closer than that.

[ March 10, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

mark12_30

03-10-2003, 05:57 AM

I've saved a spot for Frodo & children's return to Bag End.

I wonder what Sam's kids thought of the trip, of Lorien, of Cami, and of helping to clean an abaondoned hobbit-hole for a stranger to stay in.

Child of the 7th Age

03-10-2003, 12:44 PM

Shirelings, Old Star crew,

I need help. As many of you know (or have yet to learn!), weddings can be devilish things to plan. Cami and Maura are no exceptions. I wanted to share my ideas and see if anyone has further suggestions.

General background: Tolkien wrote very little about hobbit weddings. When he considered having Bilbo run off to marry, JRRT referred to hobbits' eloping and their preference for keeping wedding plans secret. All this was dropped, when his plot went off in another direction.

Cami's particular situation:

1. Except for Rose Goodchild, Cami has no living kin. Remember that her mother had been cut off by the wealthier Brockhouse family.

2. Cami knows she has very little time with Maura and will not want to waste any of it. Once she and Maura are reacquainted, they are not going to want to wait a whole month to say their vows!

3. Because Pio is pregnant, Cami will not want a public ceremony until after the birth of the twins. She does not wish to draw attention away from that happy event, and will be afraid of tiring out Pio with too many preparations, especially as she is considering a venue away from the Inn.

4. Cami has the additional complication that Maura follows First Age customs, and she follows Third Age customs. My guess would be that the hobbits of Gondolin might have been influenced by the Elves, and that, in emergency situations, a simple exchange of vows between the couple would have been viewed as sufficient, with some sort of reference to the blessings of Eru.

I suspect the Third Age practiced what we call 'civil marriage'. Hobbits outside the Shire would probably include some rural folk customs in their ceremony; those living under the Edwardian/Victorian patina of the Shire might tend toward a public registration ceremony where names would be set down in a great book. The couple might reaffirm their commitment to each other in front of friends or family, then sign the town register.

For all these reasons, I am thinking of doing this:

1. Cami and Maura will privately exchange vows a la the First Age and go off to live in the old deserted borough. Cami will officially tell no one except Bilbo and Pio and Bird. However, her hobbit friends are likely to know and understand and even talk privately about it. (In a positive sense, I hope!)

2. Cami and Maura will have a public civil ceremony, at a venue to be disclosed, after the birth of the twins, plus a one-week honeymoon in that same venue (time condensed, to be sure). Mayor Samwise will bring along the Hobbiton register and have the couple set their names in that book, since Cami grew up there.

Does this sound alright? Any ideas? Orual, would you be willing to write a post for Sam's part in this?

sharon

mark12_30

03-10-2003, 01:03 PM

What's to help, Loremistress? Sounds like you've got it all under control to me. Just let Lindo know when to show up and propose a toast. Meanwhile he and the boys will be ranting about the countryside with the Gamgee children, Gamba, and his boys. Snowhobbits being the nosey sort, it'll be all Lindo can do to keep them away from Bywater Pool.

Auriel Haevasawen

03-10-2003, 01:57 PM

This message doesn't add to your debate, I'm just making sure you're aware that I'm maintaining a watching brief on the occurances to know when I will be required. I could imagine you would be heartily cross if after writing this detailed and highly planned tale a small character like my own failed to walk on stage when required. I may not be posting (obviously - you don't need me) but am reading to keep abreast of things. (Boy is that a challenge.) This is intricate stuff you're producing. Praise to all!

Child of the 7th Age

03-10-2003, 02:33 PM

Auriel,

Thanks for the kudos!

I have sent a note to you and Doug Platypus.

Please check your pms.

sharon

piosenniel

03-10-2003, 03:24 PM

Do we need to do a Lorien returns to the Inn and has dinner scene & then be done with this day?

I'd like us, by tomorrow real time, to be one day along in the game, if you don't mind.

Since Mithadan had now arrived - will the rest of the Hobbits be coming soon - or how many days down the road game time is that happening?

mark12_30

03-10-2003, 03:58 PM

Okay, y'all, label me clueless. It's generally true.

Here's the calendar:

Lótessë – 20 Lotessë (21 Thrimidge SR): Frodo, Bilbo, Lórien arrive; dinner party.

20 Lotessë: Mithadan detained by Shiriff, Bird arrives at party.

Around 21 Lotessë:

Mithadan bailed out.

Tol Fuin Contingent (Maura, Zara, Big Ban, Abar, Lindo, 3 Snowhobbits – Retya, Tem, Tocca)

Greenwood Contingent (Rose, Gamba, plus four brothers – Gamba, Roka, Asta, Ban, Little Maura)

Nárië

---------------Loendë (Midyear Day) – Birth of twins

Cermië

So there's a whole month in between Mith & hobbits' arrival, and the birth of the twins? Frodo and Bilbo are hanging around the Green Dragon all this time, and Lorien is also at loose ends? And (likewise) Lindo, Snowhobbits, and Gamba & boys are running around loose-- for a month?

(Eru help the Shire. Or at least, the Gamgees. Poor Rose. 'You taught my children to do WHAAAT?')

But okay. Now-- Cami, when do you and Maura tie the knot unofficially and disappear (only to be spotted by the vigilant Snowhobbits in the vicinity of Bywater Pool?)

And then after the birth of the twins, you do the public witness thing.

Bill Ferny's schedule is-- what, Game Time?

And then (Game Time) it gets all wrapped up, solved, happily-ever-aftered, and put in Elvenhome-- when?

--trying to get less lost

Child of the 7th Age

03-10-2003, 04:45 PM

Helen,

I am going to bring Maura through first on his own. Hopefully, that post will be done late tonight. Cami will read Maura's letter, tell Lorien for him to come, and she will wake up with him sitting on the end of her bed. They will talk that day and agree to bring their close friends and family. Immediatly after that the rest of the arrivals will start.

The others can follow in any order:

The White Lady for Rose Goodchild (she is separate from Gamba because she's visiting Anee)

Helen for Lindo and crew, Gamba and crew--is that right?

Child for Zira, Ban, and Abar

Is that how you see it?

Regarding the month hole---Pio suggested we condense time. I thought everyone should get here before the condensed time. Also, Maura and Cami might be reluctant to have their families come through later, when the bandits are really beginning to pose a threat--especially because so many children are involved.

Maura and Cami will give their vows to each other very quickly--probably the next day after he arrives. No grass growing under Cami's toes! The public ceremony won't take place till after Pio gives birh and we deal with the other complications of the plot. It will be leading into the end. We will cover the honeymoon in one or two posts, then Cami and Maura will return to the Inn for the final sad scenes.

That is, the final sad scenes before the epilogue!

[ March 10, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

Orual

03-10-2003, 05:07 PM

Sharon--

I'd be more than happy to write up anything you need, and Sam would be more than happy to assist in whatever Cami needs for her wedding.

~*~Orual~*~

Child of the 7th Age

03-10-2003, 05:16 PM

Maura and Cami thank you.

sharon

Child of the 7th Age

03-10-2003, 05:32 PM

Helen,

About the end date of the game. The game started on February 18. Six weeks from then would be April Fool's Day, April 1.

Realistically, we may slide a bit over that. My best guess would be to aim for a finish of April 1-8.

Pio, do you think this is what we're most likely looking at?

sharon

Child of the 7th Age

03-11-2003, 08:43 AM

We are pleased to have Gandalf the Grey joining us in the role of Merry.

Orual, Mark 12_30, Gandalf, Dragoneyes,

I will have Bilbo pay a visit to Bag-end and make a request to Sam to set up a dinner party. The purpose of the party will be two-fold: to renew old friendships, and to get a closer look at this strange fellow Maura Took, whom the West wind has just blown into the Inn. Although no formal announcement has been made, Merry and Pippin should probably start getting 'suspicious' about the young man and his attentions to Cami!

Orual, in the interests of time, and geting the invitations sent out quickly, I am going to use your character to set up the 'bachelor' dinner party at Bag-end! Sam will give his agreement to Bilbo's request.

Rosie and the children will be paying a visit to Amaranthas that evening to get them out of the way! Bilbo will be doing the cooking!!

sharon

mark12_30

03-11-2003, 09:12 AM

Welcome MerryGandalf! And see you shortly at Bag End! Hey, this is great fun...

Sharon, I have a question-- This is all abuot dreams, right? And those wo are dreaming are Cami, Maura, Frodo, and Bilbo-- right? Are Mith and Pio and Bird also dreaming? Is this one big grand dream?

The reason for my asking is this: Bird brought up the good point that Frodo is galivanting across Hobbiton, and half the Shire's been to a party with him & Bilbo there, and now Bilbo will be out and about, partying, sending invitations and cooking up a storm.

This is getting uproariously non-canonical; and while it's terribly terribly fun and I definitely wouldn't miss any of it, will we have it all cleaned up by the end of the game so that it is Canon-Friendly, o at least, NotExpresslyCanonHostile?

Anyway, what I was picturing is this:

The only ones to clearly remember their dreams will be the main, central time travellers: Cami, Maura, Frodo, Bilbo (although he'll be moot by that time...) I think also Mith, Bird, and Pio would remember, being veteran time travellers. But I suspect that Lindo, Gamba, AllThoseBoys, Ban, Zira, and (I'm forgetting someone) will have a faded, foggy dream that tugs at them but they can't integrate unless somebody else who clearly remembers, reminds them and explains it for them, in effect integrating it for them (you may choose to have Maura do that for Lindo, and perhaps for Gamba.)

But Sam, Merry, Pippin, Amaranthus, the Innkeepers-- indeed, Sam's kids-- will they remember? Or will this be a foggy dream? or even just one of those pleasantly refreshing but completely forgotten dreams like Frodo had in Ithilien?

Obviously, my canon-friendly-hopeful-vote is, either a foggy dream, or complete forgetfulness.

Opinions? Rebuttals? Rotten tomatoes?

mark12_30

03-11-2003, 09:20 AM

"Little Andreth"--

Geez, you kill me sometimes. That was beautiful.

ps. Maura, welcome back; it's good to see you.

[ March 11, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

mark12_30

03-11-2003, 11:05 AM

Orual, I've gotten Frodo to the gate of Bag End; he's being hesitant again. Feel free to drag him in. If you'd like you can send a post to me and I can paste it in just after mine.

Ive got another spot saved a bit further on for chatting, exploring Bag End, and hopefully breaking the ice a little.

[ March 11, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

Child of the 7th Age

03-11-2003, 03:37 PM

For my next RPG, I will be doing a Harlequin adaptation of Tolkien! smilies/biggrin.gif

Well, Cami is dragging Maura through the Inn looking for her friends. Should you desire, please introduce yourself to Maura. Feel free to use either or both of our characters as needed in your post.

Should Cami encounter no other friends, she will introduce Maura to Bilbo later tonight.

sharon

mark12_30

03-11-2003, 04:25 PM

Frodo has joined Cami and Maura in the hunt for Bilbo. He can't have gone far. Can he? Or is he at Bag End already?

Child of the 7th Age

03-11-2003, 04:58 PM

No, he hasn't left the Inn. I will do the Bag-end post after the encounter with Bilbo.

sharon

Gandalf_theGrey

03-11-2003, 05:17 PM

Dear sharon and Helen,

It's a pleasure and a privilege to join you ... thank you for making a place for me. * bows *

Looking forward to the party at Bag End
which I'll now Merrily attend, smilies/smile.gif

Meriadoc Brandybuck // aka, Gandalf the Grey

mark12_30

03-11-2003, 08:18 PM

Orual: You there? I've put in another post where Sama nd Elanor catch Frodo daydreaming; feel free to send me stuff to insert! (please)

Can I borrow Bag End for a moment? (Puts on best Bilbo voice)

My dear Gandalf! Come in, come in; welcome, welcome! (bows at door) Tea? Or perhaps something a little stronger? How about a bottle of Old Wineyards? very good year... It was laid down by my father; what say we open one?

Orual

03-11-2003, 08:40 PM

Helen--

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I'm so sorry that I haven't gotten anything to you! I was rudely kicked off of the Internet last night, and I've been catching up on neglected RPG's--but enough excuses, I will send one to you posthaste.

~*~Orual~*~

Rose Cotton

03-12-2003, 06:27 AM

I will be away for awhile so you may use Rosie if you need her.

mark12_30

03-12-2003, 12:57 PM

...my canon-friendly-hopeful-vote is, either a foggy dream, or complete forgetfulness. Opinions? Rebuttals? Rotten tomatoes?

Nudge, nudge...?

Child of the 7th Age

03-12-2003, 02:23 PM

I've got a very Briny Notion
To drink myself to sleep.
Bring me my bowl, my magic potion!
Tonight I'm diving deep.
down! down! down!
Down where the dream-fish go
--Arry Lowdham

Helen---

We're down there with the dream fish, and I don't think things are ever too clear!

I've purposely avoided trying to respond to your question because I believe this is an enormously complicated topic. To give you a half-way decent reply I'd need to sit down and do research in the Lost Road and the Notion Clby Papers, and then write a scholarly treatise!

The only person who has written on this in any meaningful way (that I know about) is Verlyn Flieger, and I am heavily influenced by his thoughts. If you'd like, take a look at Tolkien's Legendarium (ed. by Flieger) and A Question of Time that he wrote.

First of all, on a purely practical basis, I don't think this is an issue we need to deal with directly in the RPG. When the story ends, it ends. What characters do or don't remember is open to conjecture. The only time this will actually come up is in the context of writing later RPGs or fanfiction. Give the history of the Star and the Star writers, it is possible, nay likely, that related stories will be written. How much our characters remember will vary from poster to poster depending on how they feel about it. I hesitate to specify that ahead of time.

I could tell you my personal thoughts but these only apply to me. Mith or Pio or Orual or Nurumaiel may see things totally differently, and have an equally valid view.

My views are really only important in the context of my own particular characters since those are the ones I write for and describe. For example, I may suspect that Mithadan (the character) remembers but if his creator decides he should forget in a later RPG, then so be it!!

Now, let's step back for a minute from the practical answer and get into a jucier question:

...my canon-friendly-hopeful-vote is, either a foggy dream, or complete forgetfulness.

I respectfully do not agree. Based on what I've read in the Notion Club Papers, I would argue that the exact opposite is true. For Tolkien, the essence of a true or deep dream is memory, especially since one of the key purposes of dream is the rebirth and dissemination of myth. For that to happen you must have memory.

At the beginning of the Notion Club, the characters discuss the meaning of dream. This is what Ramer has to say about memory and dream:

I was awake in bed, and I fell wide asleep: as suddenly and violently as the waker in my illustration. I dived slap through several levels and a whirl of shapes and scenes into a connected and remembered sequence. I could remember all the dreams I ever had, of that sequence. At least, I remember that I could remember them while I was still "there", better than I can "here" remember a long sequence of events in waking life. And the memory did not vanish when I woke up, and it hasn't vanished. It has dimmed down to normal, to about the same degree as memory of waking life: it's edited: blanks indicating lack of interest, some transitions cut, and so on. But my dream memories are no longer fragments, no longer like pictures, about the size of my circle of vision with fixed eyes, surounded with dark, as they used to be, nearly always. They are wide and long and deep. I have visited many other sequences since then, and I can now remember a great number of serious, free, dreams, my deep dreams....

In a related vein, look at Tolkien's "dream" narators. Memories are 'inherited' through the same family by the Elf-friend narrators: Elendil/Veronwe (Numenor); Aelfwine/Treowine (Anglo-Saxon); Lowdham/Jeremy (modern). And these inherited memories are often conveyed through the vehicle of dream.

Fleger has also argued that places like Bombadil's house and Lothlorien stand half-way between reality and dream in LotR. I certainly get that sense of dream when the fellowship comes to Lothlorien.

There is really no canon here, in that none of this was published by JRRT, one way or the other. But his unpublished writings strongly suggest that he saw memory as an important component of dream.

sharon

Child of the 7th Age

03-12-2003, 02:30 PM

Helen,

I received your fine post and will insert into the story at the appropriate point. smilies/biggrin.gif

I have just one question. What about this teenage hobbit who's wearing his hair in an Elvish braid? Grr! The last time I saw Gamba in Greenwood, he wasn't doing that. Is this the bad influence of friends? Please advise

You can be sure Cami will have something to say about this!

sharon

mark12_30

03-12-2003, 02:41 PM

No, no, the elvish braids belonged to Retya. Retya was the wide-eyed innocent decoy. Gamba was the tornado who ran up behind Retya and leapfrogged him.

Now I'm going to go back and read your Master's Thesis on dreams. Wish me luck!

(edit)

Hmmmm.

All right-- for now. But I'm going to go back to HoME 5 and scan that Elendil story again.... I'm SURE that when he woke up in Numenor, he didn't know he was really from England.

I know Bombadil's house and Lothlorien are dreamy places, but this is different, surely? This isn't visions, this isn't far-seeing, this isn't remembering; this is dream-transportation. And the example I know of that fits that is the Elendil/ Herendil one. Admittedly I'm not as well-read as you are! But this whole thing is beginning to make my head spin.

I don't yet have that Flieger book (I have the other one, Splintered Light, which I got partway into and then got distracted...) And I can't get the Flieger book you mention for another two weeks minimum (having overcollected already, and am now "paying the price"...)

Ah, well, I have a feeling this debate will continue, my dreamy friend. Cheers, a toast, and sweet dreams to you...

[ March 12, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

Child of the 7th Age

03-12-2003, 03:17 PM

Ah, you have relieved my mind about Gamba's hairstyle! I misunderstood.

Regarding dreams....Lost Road and Notion Club Papers do have a different flavor about them. Notion Club Papers came later. I honestly have never sat down and done anything more than skim through them.

sharon

mark12_30

03-12-2003, 03:22 PM

Okay (that was fast, said Child) here's what's bugging me. It all goes back to the question of-- who's dreaming? And who's awake?

When the guy who dreams that he is Elendil, wakes up as Elendil in Numenor, then in England he's asleep. His neighbors (in Numenor) would, however, be awake and "real" people walking around in the daylight, EXCEPTING Elendil's son Herendil, who, while talking to his father in Numenor, is also lying asleep in England. (What were there names? Harry and John, for the sake of argument.) So-- Elendil /Herendil awake in Numenor, but Harry and John (sic) lying aleep and dreaming in England.

So.

I'm assuming that Frodo and Bilbo are lying asleep in the West, Cami, Rose, Gamba & boys are lying asleep in the Third Age, Maura, Ban, Zira, Abar, Lindo, & Snowhobbits are lying asleep on Tol Fuin. We all have a happy three-month-long dream-reunion, weddings, births, adventures. So far so good.

Now-- who's awake?

Pio's twins do actually get born, so she's awake. Right? Or is she? Mith travelled all the way there and is there when the twins are born so he's awake. Right? Bird flew all the way there, so she's awake. I guess.

Is The Shire awake? Sam, Merry, Pippin?

You see where I'm going? Or, how lost I am?

Okay. So according to your argument, then only the ones that were dreaming-- the travellers less Mith, Pio, Bird-- are potentially confused and the rest are not? And if the dreamers all arrive in the Shire with memories intact-- more or less-- then how much do Zira, Ban, Lindo & boys remember-- and Gamba and Rose-- when they wake up?

[ March 12, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

Child of the 7th Age

03-12-2003, 05:57 PM

In my opinion, and this is only opinion, those who must traverse only space to come are in real time: those from the West and early Fourth Age. Those who must traverse time are in dream: Cami and crew, Maura and crew.

I do not think any character has to leave with "confused" memories (unless their creator wants them to!). I don't doubt that Tolkien may have put forward more than one view about dream in his writings, but I do know that, in the quote above, Ramer clearly said he remembered everything more clearly in dream than in "real life". Even Jeremy and Lowdham remember what they've seen, since JRRT says they wake and compare notes. So if these folk have memories, why can't our own characters, if we prefer that?

In real life, dream is notoriously tricky---some you remember clearly, some not at all, and some just a little. There's no one standard that fits all dreams and people. And I tend to think that this would be true here as well.

Regarding people in a dream recalling the details of their past life, see this response by Ramer:

And can you remember your real life while in a dream?.....'As to the last question,... the answer is: in a sense, yes. As clearly as you can remember it while writing a story, or deeply engrossed in a book....

So there is a basis for saying that Cami remembers Maura and Maura remembers Cami. Remember too that we have a Vala dream-master with us (even a drunk one!) which Tolkien's own dream travellers did not have.

Helen, I think we're actually getting down to a more basic question. What is important in an RPG? To me, canon itself is an artificial construct. As a writer, I can become frustrated when dealing with that. For example, I have read one or two stores that were absolutely faithful to Tolkien from start to finish in term of details, but the writers totally missed the boat in not understanding Tolkien's values, spirit, etc.

Just one example: an RPG saturated with canon-true details, but which is filled with battle scene after battle scene, with nothing else in between, absolutely no hint of character development. To me that is a lot further from Tolkien than Bird's variants on shapechangers, Pio's example of Elven/hobbit unions (the Took fairy unions?), or allusions to dream travel, which I've postulated here.

Again, I don't think the plot of this story requires us to delineate everything that a character will or won't remember after he/she returns to another age. And I hesitate to lay those guidelines down for other people since it's not central to the plot

Speaking personally only, I would say Cami would have full memories; Rose and Gamba partial, misty memories; the younger ones only a distant glimmering. Perhaps that has as much to do with awareness and age as any interpretations based on canon. (Maura, I'll leave for another time.) My guess is that everyone in real time would have normal memories.

I imagine you are thinking of the epilogue we've discussed. This could be done one of two ways---keeping it vague and uncertain as to what was actually remembered, or go ahead and do what you feel most comfortable with, since none of those characters have other creators (except for Cami and Maura which I do have feelings about). I'd almost opt for the vague and uncertain tack--there are many places in the writings which are maddeningly and mysteriously vague on key points! You can't get more like Tolkien than that. But whichever works for you is fine.

Does anyone else have any ideas or responses to this?

Sorry this post is so vague, but I can't think of a topic more inherently elusive than dream!

sharon

[ March 12, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

mark12_30

03-12-2003, 06:13 PM

OK. "Uncle."

smilies/wink.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

Child of the 7th Age

03-12-2003, 06:16 PM

LOL. OK, I edited the above post to address the epilogue. Take a look. That's where we get down to a streightforward question that will need to be answered to do these posts. How do you prefer to handle it?

sharon

[ March 12, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

piosenniel

03-12-2003, 07:06 PM

Piosenniel will have intact, real memories of this period. These memories will be passed on to her children, who have their own infant memories of this time. And these nebulous memories of theirs will be solidified and confirmed by the stories passed down to them by their mother.

Amaranthas will also have real memories of this time, though as she grows older Hobbits will say she confuses memories and says strange, out of time things.

Prim, Hob, Ruby and Buttercup’s memories of happenings will center mostly around what is most central to them at this part of their lives – the Elf’s arrival and stay at the Inn, the birth of her twins, the kidnappings, and the death.

That is how the writer for these characters sees the questions of memory for them.

Birdland

03-12-2003, 08:17 PM

Ahem...since I was the one who may have started this debate, I guess I should throw in my two cents, though I have not read the tales that Cami and Mark are referring to.

I threw in Birdie's "doubts" because it is very in character for Bird to do this. I also felt that the story needed a little conflict, and some sort of lead up to the future kidnapping of the children.

I also feel that "Bird" character (and myself) make a very good point about the appearance of Frodo, Bilbo, and particularly Men, in the Shire. While the main characters may be living a dream, the people around them aren't. There is little or not reaction to the events going on, and the story seems to lack because of it.

I also thought that if these issues were brought up, it might open the story up a little so that other players might have something to build on and play with if only as a sub-plot. There just doesn't seem to be much for other characters to react to, except to stand and watch as Cami, Pio and the other main characters interact.

Anyway, that's my take on the matter.

Child of the 7th Age

03-12-2003, 08:50 PM

Bird,

That is a good point, the need to broaden the storyline beyond the particular angst that Pio has about the birth of her children and Cami has about her situation with Maura (and Frodo has about his relationship with Sam and Bilbo) . Bird, I saw your concerns as tying directly into the bandit sub-plot, and they seemed very much in keeping with your personality and character.

I thought Helen's concerns were different (but I could certainly be mistaken in that perception.) More of a desire to understand specifics about the dream mechanism itself, and the implications of that for the future, after folk returned to their homes.

She and I were planning a brief epilogue at the end of the game where we do follow certain characters after they've gone back to different ages. There, the problem of remembering versus not-remembering would be real and immediate.

Right now, we are in a holding pattern--waiting for two things to happen. One is the arrival of the other characters by dream, and the other is the beginning of the trouble in the Shire by the bandits.

Once the bandits start doing their thing, there will be a lot more for both Mithadan and Bird to react to. They will both be on the hot seat, and Bird's dire predictions will seem to be coming true.

Auriel, Doug Platypus, please check your pms.

The arrival of the other guests should also provide further conflict. From things Helen has sent me, it sounds as if we have a crew of juvenile delinquents coming in to join us!

Hope this helps.

sharon

[ March 12, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

mark12_30

03-12-2003, 09:00 PM

Bird-- wait'll the Snowhobbits show up. Frodo has no clue as to who you are; Retya, Tem and Tocca will want everything from Dolphin-rides to Raven-hunts (like going hawking, you understand. Bird! See the squirrel? Sic 'em!) You'll be sick of boys.

Oh, and Little Maura will ask about the pretty dragon. Gamba probably won't.

Interestng you should bring up Bilbo and Frodo, and the Shire's lack of reaction to them so far; I keep running across Sam's law of inheritance when somebody goes over the Sea-- was it in Tom Bombadil? I forget-- and I keep wondering, now that Frodo is back, will somebody try to talk Sam out of Bag End?

Dragoneyes-- Osanwe is basically mind-reading, with one person opening their mind, and the other reading or putting thoughts into the open mind. Pippin would be on the recieving end. Frodo would be sending. There's an essay about it online if you'd like to read it. Go to books, and search on Osanwe... but if you don't have time, here's a brief intro:

Of the Elves and Osanwe (from Many Partings):

"Often long after the hobbits were wrapped in sleep they would sit together under the stars, recalling the ages that were gone and all their joys and labors in the world, or holding council, concerning the days to come. If any wanderer had chanced to pass, little would he have seen or heard, and it would have seemed to him only that he saw grey figures, carved in stone, memorials of forgotten things now lost in unpeopled lands. For they did not move or speak with mouth, looking from mind to mind; and only their shining eyes stirred and kindled as their thoughts went to and fro."

Of Galadriel and Osanwe (From The Mirror Of Galadriel):

"And with that word she held them with her eyes, and in silence looked searchingly at each of them in turn. None save Legolas and Aragorn could long endure her glance. Sam quickly blushed and hung his head."

The second part is why Pipin, and Sam, are nervous about Osanwe-- Galadriel put them through a bit of a test that day. But the first quiote is why Frodo likes it; you can tell stories, share memories, and just talk.

When you see Maura and Cami reading each others thoughts (it shows up in italics then), they are doing osanwe. Also Piosenniel does it a lot-- that's how she communicates with anybody who is far away.

Does that help?

Gandalf_theGrey

03-12-2003, 10:51 PM

sharon:

Regarding the plotline you describe as follows:

Right now, we are in a holding pattern--waiting for two things to happen. ... the other is the beginning of the trouble in the Shire by the bandits.

Once the bandits start doing their thing, there will be a lot more for both Mithadan and Bird to react to.

... It strikes me that the appearance of bandits is something eminently logical for Merry to be involved in dealing with and reacting to as well. Please send me a PM with the pertinent background information so that I can better incorporate the Merry character into the RPG? I'll be looking forward to any information you can share that will enable me to participate with the same amount of depth as the rest of you all, and would greatly appreciate the chance to join in on the advance collaboration and pre-planning that the Lonely Star writers are famous for. smilies/smile.gif Also, am I correct in assuming that the appearance of bandits is associated with the Bill Ferny subplot?

Helen:

You're so very gracious! Thank you again for showing yourself a friend to me. * bows low * smilies/smile.gif

At your Service,

Meriadoc / Gandalf

[ March 12, 2003: Message edited by: Gandalf_theGrey ]

Child of the 7th Age

03-13-2003, 12:23 AM

Dragoneyes, Gandalf,

Please see your pms.

sharon

piosenniel

03-13-2003, 01:24 AM

A question about the epilogue - were you (Sharon and Helen) going to write this, or will the characters be allowed to write their own?

And if you were going to write it, were you planning on conferring with the writers of the characters?

mark12_30

03-13-2003, 07:38 AM

Pio-- on a more immediate level, if Piosenniel will be away from the Inn during Gamba's Green Dragon Jailbreak, please feel free to substitute anybody you choose for the investigation.

About the Epilog-- it is rather narrowly focused about what happens to the time-warping hobbit-dreamers after they wake up; it's pretty insulated in that way from the rest of the Star crew. Sort of like Gamba's epilog was, I guess.

Child of the 7th Age

03-13-2003, 08:08 AM

Pio,

Please excuse my choice of words which may have thrown you off. The epilogue focuses only on Cami and Maura. It will involve a few posts and is the same material we discussed by pm earlier.

Hope this clarifies things.

sharon

[ March 13, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

Mithadan

03-13-2003, 09:49 AM

If Gamba, et al. were supposed to escape, please advise and I will delete or modify my post.

mark12_30

03-13-2003, 10:54 AM

Mith & Bird, that was good.

Child, I'll modify what I sent you, and send it again.

[ March 13, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

Child of the 7th Age

03-13-2003, 01:27 PM

Great posts with the arrival of the children! It seems we are in for a time of confusion. Bird was definitely right.

I filled in my earlier post of 3/13 at 1:11 a.m. using that same theme. Maura is stunned that Pio is alive and in the Shire. The last he heard she had croaked in Gondolin!

Pio, I'm not sure if I got your response right in this scene. Look at what I said, and if you feel you'd prefer something different, go ahead and edit.

sharon

piosenniel

03-13-2003, 01:37 PM

The response is fine.

WhiteLady - Hello, Rose! smilies/smile.gif Please see my latest PM to you.

Child of the 7th Age

03-13-2003, 01:50 PM

Pio,

Great minds think alike! I had just sent you a note about this and also one to White Lady.

I assume you two will straighten this out.

sharon

Mithadan

03-13-2003, 02:57 PM

If Auntie Bird wants fuss and mayhem, Auntie Bird gets fuss and mayhem....

mark12_30

03-13-2003, 03:03 PM

Mith, you may bring Gamba in to Pio for an apology at your haste or liesure, if she doesn't ride away on 'Falmar first. He won't want to go inside the nasty building.

[ March 13, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

piosenniel

03-13-2003, 03:06 PM

Pio has left the building . . . and the West Farthing, too, for that matter . . .

mark12_30

03-13-2003, 03:10 PM

I can't imagine why. Oversensitive.
smilies/wink.gif

[ March 13, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

mark12_30

03-13-2003, 06:29 PM

Does anybody have a plan for finding Ban and Zira? Lindo knows them and could find them (or at least contact them and get a description of there location) with osanwe.

That is, unless he was seriously distracted by something else. Bird's presence, or her distress, perhaps?
Lindo would also like to see Pio, if she ever comes back.

[ March 13, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

Child of the 7th Age

03-13-2003, 08:12 PM

Helen,

Bird and I set up the Zira, Abar thing early this morning by e-mail. She promised to post and resolve the situation when she returned from work.

Remember the first night in Gondolin when Abar fed morsels to the black bird while his family ate? Also remember how Bird attacked Lindo that night when he was out walking and talking with Maura?

sharon

[ March 13, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

piosenniel

03-13-2003, 08:14 PM

Gandalf smilies/smile.gif

Please check your PM's.

Birdland

03-14-2003, 12:36 AM

If Auntie Bird wants fuss and mayhem, Auntie Bird gets fuss and mayhem....
But that is not my doing. I merely foretell. smilies/wink.gif

piosenniel

03-14-2003, 03:24 AM

theWhiteLady

Check your PM's. smilies/smile.gif

mark12_30

03-14-2003, 06:15 AM

Maybe it's too late for this and maybe not, but I thought I'd ask...

How about (still harping on the canonicity thing, call me obsessive, probably true...) (All readers: prepare volley of Rotten Tomatoes...)

How about if Frodo and Bilbo came to the Shire as supposed strangers, using "travelling names"? All their close friends, and the Star Party, would obviously be in the know; we could add a line or two to the Party Invitations with a caution to those In The Know; the party would be largely unchanged, except for a brief announcement at them beginning of the party ("Remember, please, all of you, after this party, the name of Baggins is NOT to be mentioned; we are the Underhills, if any name must be given..." How about Frodo goes by Bingo Underhill in public?

That leaves room for further intrigue, Loads of gossip, and Bilbo and Frodo will have no authority with anybody but their close friends, and so can get into lots of trouble.

Bill Ferny can either figure it out or his spies can find out.

[ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

Child of the 7th Age

03-14-2003, 07:03 AM

Helen,

Scratches head in puzzlement. I think you'd better help me out here. I don't understand how having the returning duo under assumed names affects the canonicity of the piece. Is it just that you don't want the neighbors knowing it is them?

Bilbo was always known for doing such strange things, e.g., suddenly disappearing in the middle of a party before everyone's eyes, that I doubt the hobbits would have been totally shocked to see him running around the Shire again. They thought of him as doing strange things and, if he did one more, that would just be in character.

More importantly, as readers, we know what it means that Bilbo and Frodo went West. We have a fairly good understanding of what that place is like and also why they went there. In other words, we understand all the background information. Would most hobbits in the Shire have understood all this? Absolutely not. Most hobbits didn't have even the vagust notion about who Eru was or even the Valar. Their minds were on things much closer to home.

Our own characters are the exceptions---the ones whom Tolkien describes in his Letters as being exceptionally gifted. The ones who were curious and understood things that others did not.

I'm also truly curious why you find these points especially disturbing. There are other things in the Star saga which also stand far beyond canon, if we want to interpret canon literally. For example, the presence of an Elf in the clear light of day within the Shire itself. Even more strange is the idea that stands at the crux of the story---the assumption that there were hobbits floating around in the First and Second Age. Another example, the idea of using a device to do Time Travel. In the Notion Club Papers Tolkien says that using a machine to do time travel is not possible, the people would be killed. He states that dream is the only appropriate vehicle.

What about the thing we're considering doing at the end of the story.....? You could well argue that it's way beyond Tolkien. But, as I've argued before, we could also say that keeping a couple madly in love apart is actually a more basic desecration of Tolkien. JRRT was willing
to move mountains, and break most of his rules, to allow lovers to remain together. Beren and Luthien are the most extreme example of this.

All those examples that I've cited stand far from Tolkien, if we want to interpret things in a literal sense. Do these things bother me? Not at all. I've always seen the Star and her mini-cousin in the Shire as being Tolkien in spirit but not in detail. Might it be fun to do an RPG someday which clings closer to Tolkien in its details. Perhaps, but this one isn't it.

What would bother me is this.......if someone took a character and had him/her do things that were totally out of keeping with that particular person. It doesn't bother me that Frodo's returned briefly from the West. It would bother me if he was to have a torrid love affair with another hobbit or Elf. (And I've certainly seen that done before!)

Perhaps, it would help if you'd explain why this particular scenario is really bothering you, while the other ones I cited above were less of a problem. I just don't get it. I'm having problems.

Your puzzled time traveller friend,

Cami Goodchild

mark12_30

03-14-2003, 07:27 AM

Okay, fair question!

What totally steams me is not when we fill in a blank with something wild and creative. I think of the time crystal sort of like the mechanical dragons, I guess; Tolkien might shudder a bit, but I don't think he'd go ballistic.

But having Frodo and Bilbo come back when it's expressly stated that they went west and Didn't come back, puts us in the position of negating the contents of the Red Book of Westmarch. That bugs me. No, it drives me crazy. Everybody concerned made that book as accurate as possible, recording everything as faithfully as they could. If Bilbo and Frodo had come back, they would have said so. If Bilbo was buried in the Shire, they would have said so.

UNLESS it was for some reason a dead secret. Then they would have left it unsaid. So-- how can we make their return a dead secret?

Secrets exist, stuff is left out of history books because it's classified in nature. I'm fine with that. But I'm NOT fine with Sam and all the rest of the historians failing to mention that oh, yeah, Frodo did come back for a couple of months, once, and everybody knew it and we had a great time, but it's not important information, so we'll leave it out because nobody would be interested. They put details into that book like Elanor serving as Arwen's handmaiden; why would they leave out the Ringbearer's return? Unless, as I have said, it was supposed to be a secret.

(Or, I would have been happy with, "Sam woke up and looked for Frodo, and he was terribly disappointed to realize it had all been just a dream." But we all disagree on that, so, okay.)

So-- how about making it a secret? This is the excuse I used for Noldo's marriage to Lorien. Someplace, Tolkien says that there were only ever three elf-human unions: Arwen, Idril, Luthien. I didn't feel right saying "Noldo's a hobbit so he doesn't count." No, he does count. But what worked (for me) was that their underage marriage was such a shocking disgrace that it was hushed up especially from the rest of the elves, and so therefore didn't make it into the history books. So the historians can still (honestly) state that there were only ever three human/elf unions-- that's all they KNOW about.

Am I making sense yet?

The time crystal-- same thing. Everything that the Lonely Star did, was all a "super-classified mission", top-secret, and so of course didn't make it into the history books. Same with Maura's relocation-- classified info. That's why that whole epilog thing, him being a mystery to most of the rest of the Anduin group, is important to me, I guess.

Mith did a good job blending the rescue of the numenoreans out of the temple-- he made everything secret, putting the descendants under oath. Again, it didn't go into the history books. We didn't contradict the history books-- we wrote events that were intentionally left out of them for reasons of (national) security.

Same with the Hobbits relocations, and imprisonments, etc; not in the history books because it was a matter of (future) national security. Secret mission; doesn't contradict the historians; we can just wink and say, "How could they have known?" And "Those who did know, couldn't or wouldn't tell."

Now am I making sense?...

ps. "an elf in the clear light of day in the Shire"... well, yeah, it's wierd. But you started all this by saying, "It's a dream"! You bamboozled me!!! smilies/biggrin.gif (Kidding. Okay, I'm not kidding, but anyway, not important.) No, there are places in the LOTR that talk about elves coming through the Shire, so that doesn't bug me, and you did say that The Green Dragon is a Lorien/ Bombadil/Rivendell-ish place for the purposes of this story. Does it bug me? I guess a little, if I think hard about it-- but not NEARLY as much as, "Oh, the Ringbearer came back and everybody knew but we didn't bother to add that to the Red Book." The one is creative license, the other is, well... dare I say heresy?

(all concerned reach for rotten tomatoes... Fire!)

[ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

mark12_30

03-14-2003, 07:35 AM

...and I realize I am being a total stick-in-the-mud, and so I'm trying to come up with a simple, quick, and dirty solution, and the aliases seem easy to me, and simple and quick. And fairly "right".

(still ducking tomatoes)

Birdland

03-14-2003, 07:51 AM

Helen - I have to side with Sharon as far as backing up and changing the story at this late date, and I have no objection to the main premise of the story. After all, none of us could claim that any of our RPGs are mere "canon fodder".

My only concern was the lack of reaction from the general Shire population. Men, First Age halflings, and the return of the "mad Baggines" should have stirred up an ant's nest of speculation, gossip, rumors, innuendos, hostility, and...well...conflict.

A dragon showing up in the Shire in the Fourth Age would be considered horribly "non-canon", but would make an interesting, fun story. A dragon showing up in the Shire and nobody reacting to it at all, though? Well, that just seems odd.

mark12_30

03-14-2003, 08:07 AM

Bird, I understand your points, but there is (for me) a deeper issue here, and that is that I'm playing Frodo. It's one thing to play non-canonical characters-- Gamba, Lindo, etc-- I can go wild and have fun and do what I want. But not with Frodo; he's a balancing act, a study, and something I'm determined to do well, or not at all. I feel simlilarly about Sam, and Pippin. I've written a novel with them, after all, and it was a painstaking effort, trying to blend everything I did in with existing historical events, and not go outside what TOlkien has already written as far as those characters go.

Now, that doesn't mean I didn't have creative fun with the OTHER characters in my story-- boy, did I. They did things that few hobbits EVER would. But NOT Frodo, Sam, Pippin. They were tied and woven into Tolkien's history to the very best of my ability.

And that's what I'm trying to do now; everything in me is screaming, Tie it in faithfully, to the best of your ability, in a way that The Professor would approve of and that your conscience can handle. And if I can't do that-- well, that's an issue for me, and a monstrous one. Talk about losing sleep. smilies/rolleyes.gif

Giving them travelling names seems to me like the simplest way out. It's slightly hokey, but I can deal with it.

Let me put it this way-- a dragon in the fourth age Shire? Okay. You're right-- that's lots of fun. smilies/tongue.gif But-- it beter not be Smaug, Ancalagon, or Glaurung, because they're dead. smilies/frown.gif Tolkien said so. Soooo--- make your own dragon, get him from somewhere else, and bring him in to wreak havoc-- fine. But the dragons whose destiny has already been settled? Let them rest in peace.
smilies/wink.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

[ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

Child of the 7th Age

03-14-2003, 08:25 AM

Helen,

I was not trying to bamboozle anyone. I just don't see it the same critical way that you do. In fact, I don't see how it's any different than inventing 5,000 years of hobbit history. There is no way you could keep an entire people hidden for 5,000 years. Surely someone would have noticed them in all that time, the descendents of the guards of Numenor, for example. If I was a Man, and had been put in charge of hobbit prisoners, I certainly would tell everyone I knew about these strange creatures!

Moreover, to be truthful, I once read an interview where Tolkien said it was impossible to have hobbits in an earlier age, because they were totally the product of the Shire. Personally, for me, it is more impossible to imagine that a people could have evolved a culture, physical characteristics, etc. in just 2,000 years, since the year 1050 T.A. is the first hint in Tolkien of hobbits.

Having said this, isn't there an easier way we can get around your objections? I really don't like tampering with the earlier parts of the story. It's like putting fig leaves on statues.

I don't have a problem saying that Frodo and Bilbo came in dream time, instead of real time. This is not uneasonable in that they arrived the same way as the other dream travellers. We have a Vala with us who is in charge of dreams and visions. This type of power inherently implies the ability to cast illusions.

Why can't we simply have an ending post where Lorien does his thing as a Vala and gently places a misty curtain over the minds of the Shirelings so that the whole sequence of events in the story fades away, becoming very distant and vague? Like a pleasant but half-remembered dream. This would only involve those folk living in the Shire. Frankly, the only person who would absolutely need to forget is Sam, since he's writing the later history. With anyone else, it's simply a matter of rumor. But, to be safe, Lorien could deal with the Shire as a hole.

Pio, and Mith, and Bird would not be affected in any way. If you prefer, you could evn have the same veil descend on the minds of the dream travellers....although Cami and Maura would be exempt. I won't budge on that! Plus, I would think that Frodo and Bilbo would have a special status in this regard, since they are returning to the West and points beyond.

Just think of it as the ending of Shakespeare's Midsummer Night's Dream. A temporary sweet madness has seized the Shirelings' minds, but it will soon depart.

Helen, could you live with this? It has the advantage of not requiring earlier revisions. Does anyone else have any serious concerns regarding the structure of the story, or the suggested solution I've proposed?

sharon

[ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

mark12_30

03-14-2003, 08:39 AM

Sharon,

I hope I didn't hurt your feelings, I didn't mean to and I should have put a smilie after "bamboozle" smilies/wink.gif

The mist-thing would be okay.

I logged on to propose that I spend tomorrow morning canvassing the thread and analyzing the changes that would be necessary to accomodate the aliases, and submitting a proposal for the changes to this thread to be judged by all concerned. Honestly, I think I can do it by very minor edits to less than ten posts. Maybe even around five.
(We did that sort of thing on the Star more than once, didn't we?)

But if that gives everybody the willies, then the settling mist will do.

I love ya, Sharon. I know you know that. It's just that I'm already losing sleep over this, and I need to resolve it somehow. Don't take it personally. I'm in the story because I love it, and I love you guys.

(This is bugging me so much, I actually considered proposing going back through and deleting Frodo altogether-- if Bilbo came alone, it would make everything work, I think; he's quieter, and it would look more like a wild rumor, etc etc. At least it would clear my conscience, since I'm not writing Bilbo, except as he interacts with Frodo. But-- I figured you would go through the roof if I even menioned deleting Frodo from the story, and there's all of Orual's hard work that would be affected, and so I dropped that idea.)

But... the mist thing would work too.

No hard feelings, Sharon?

Child of the 7th Age

03-14-2003, 09:36 AM

Helen,

I know this is not personal. No offense taken. But I see serious problems in what you are suggesting.

In my mind, an rpg is a seemless web. Even if people edited the ten posts, you'd still have the ripple effect. You pull one thread in an rpg and others go out of line. When you make "ten minor edits" in posts that amount to a total change in the profile for two characters (Frodo and Bilbo), you potentially affect all the other people who play off of you.

This is not an academic question for me, since I play Bilbo. This whole suggested revision affects Bilbo as much as Frodo. In my mind, I would need to do massive reconstruction of my character, going all the way back to the beginning posts in Tol Eressea. Let me cite an example. If Bilbo had come to the Shire under some vow of secrecy, he would never have driven a pony cart to see Amaranthas in broad daylight, nor would he be setting up a party in Bag-end. If fact, it is highly unlikely that he'd be sitting out in front of the Inn smoking a pipe. Bilbo is a shrewd hobbit. He would obviously be inside taking cover. This concept of an alias would change every single action that my character has taken in the entire RPG. His whole mindset, the way he was thinking would be totally different. If I make the required changes, the entire story will be gutted.

I still don't understand how an alias would help. I understand how Frodo could use an alias in Bree where no one knew him. But almost all of the inhabitants of Hobbiton know Frodo and Bilbo by sight. They would simply recognize them. The fact they were trying to come back "incognito" would rouse more suspicion rather than less. You would have to have Lorien change the physical appearance of the hobbits as well in order to hide them. Otherwise an alias is not believable.

I have no problem with Lorien's mist of curtain, but don't know how others feel about that. Nor do I have a problem with Bird's suggestion that there be more response in the Shire to Bilbo and Frodo's arrival. I think that would be very realistic, and wish someone would take her up on that.

BTW, I will not be on the computer a lot over the weekend. We are at home but have an extraordinary number of commitments that will keep me from posting. If possible, can this be hammered out today?

sharon

[ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

mark12_30

03-14-2003, 09:55 AM

Sharon,

I didn't think they'd be so recognizeable-- except to their close friends-- because for one thing, they're supposed to be gone. Look how long it took people to recognize the returning war heroes, and Bilbo after the quest of Erebor.

And for another, they **have** been gone-- Frodo for twelve years. Bilbo has been gone for-- (math, math, math...) thirty-plus years. AND he's aged hugely since anybody in the Shire has seen him. Remember he looked fifty years old when he left the Shire at age eleventy-one, because he was carrying the Ring til that point, and now he looks 130-- or, actually, 140.

50 yrs to 130/140 yrs is a big, big change. And nobody is expecting Bilbo anymore; why would they recognize him? I think he could traipse around calling himself "Gaffer Underhill" with complete impugnity, and his friends in the know would have fun playing along. Amaranthus would eat it up. Gaffer Underhill could smoke in public anywhere he pleased and go wherever he wished.

"Visiting Gaffer Underhill" is very believeable for me. And Frodo could have found a way to blend in, of that I feel certain.

But-- Okay. As I've said in this thread once before....

"Uncle."

I can go with Lorien's mist if that's what you want.

[ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

piosenniel

03-14-2003, 11:03 AM

Sharon

Please check your PM's

Birdland

03-14-2003, 12:45 PM

Cami takes a punch from the shirriff for her son

A large crowd gathers

The neighborhood goes ballistic when they realize Frodo and Bilbo have returned
NOW WE'RE TALKIN'!!! smilies/biggrin.gif

Child of the 7th Age

03-14-2003, 12:51 PM

Pio,

Please see your pms. I am working on that post now. It is up to you if you want to have him take another swing.

Please see my caution about Mith.

Helen,

Yes, that sounds good. I am all for misty curtains. Now, don't panic but the entire town is about to see Frodo.

Just keep repeating to yourself. This is a dream....it will all go away! Think of it like a PJ fanfic.

sharon

mark12_30

03-14-2003, 12:56 PM

Think of it like a PJ fanfic.

"PJ" ??

[ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

Child of the 7th Age

03-14-2003, 01:59 PM

Pio,

My revised post is up. As of this minute, no one is going to jail, but the entire region is up in arms about the return of Frodo and Bilbo.

If you'd prefer to have some jailbirds, I can probably add something on to suggest that Gamba still is not happy. Or you could edit yourself. I don't mind.

Helen,

Grins. PJ = Peter Jackson. Actually, I did enjoy the movie, but not as much as the first one.

sharon

[ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

Child of the 7th Age

03-14-2003, 02:13 PM

Pio,

Check your pms.

I'll be glad to edit the Maura part if the other will work better. I do want to keep the part about the hobbits getting all upset, and Bilbo coming forward to help Cami.

Shall I edit? Then you can look at it.

sharon

piosenniel

03-14-2003, 02:15 PM

I'm leaving it up to another writer to pick up the ball as far as the Shiriff and what he is going to do about the complaint made by Olo. It would probably be preferable if no one got locked up.

ArwenBaggins

03-14-2003, 02:48 PM

Sorry Guys, I'll be gone all weekend on an archery trip.

Could someone take over Elanor until I get back? I'd appreciate it.

Much Obliged,
Fëa (Elanor)

Mithadan

03-14-2003, 03:23 PM

Pio: Done.

Helen and Child, I definitely am not in favor of a rewrite along the lines contemplated. I also don't favor the mist of forgetfulness idea. I think its not necessary.

My view is that the Shire is a sleepy
place where things are quickly forgotten. Its a place where books and records of history are rare and an oral tradition is maintained. Within a matter of years this whole debacle will be recalled in folkloric terms as another "Mad Baggins" episode. After a generation or so it will be forgotten.

Knowing the importance of secrecy with regard to the Hobbits of Tol Fuin, the Hobbrim and the journey of The Star in
general, Frodo knows that the only way these events could be remembered is if they end up in the Red Book. Perhaps Sam mentions that Elessar has requested a copy. So Frodo asks Sam not to mention these events in his writings. Sam would surely agree and pass the request on to Elanor. This is in keeping with Helen's "State Secret" approach and I prefer it to the Mist of Forgetfulness. How does that sound?

Child of the 7th Age

03-14-2003, 03:36 PM

Mith,

I think this is a good idea. It explicitly addresses the question of written history, which is what Helen mentioned as a main concern in her earlier post.

I could easily let my mist of forgetfulness drift away.

Helen, what do you think of this alternative?

sharon

mark12_30

03-14-2003, 04:06 PM

Mith, I think it's a good idea, and I think it does 80 to 90 percent of the job. All I think it needs is the element of doubt and debate, which I think could be easily added in.

I think we could easily do that with some strategically placed comments like, "Oh, they may LOOK like Bilbo and Frodo, but that's silly, those two have been gone for years and years." The Shire can argue about it over pipes and mugs of beer, and Frodo can dissemble casually : "Oh, yes, I've heard I bear quite a strong resemblance to him. Isn't it fascinating? Right down to the missing finger. Isn't that odd, now. Perhaps I should take advantage of the notoriety, it might be worth a few free beers."

Even in the most recent post, it's easy. Bilbo can just smile and laugh, and answer, "So people seem to think. The resemblance must be rather striking." Everybody around him can walk away arguing. We still get mayhem out of the deal.

[ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

mark12_30

03-14-2003, 06:42 PM

...round and round again... From the LOTR Prologue, p. 13 & 14 (in the Omnibus), Note on the Shire Records:
At the end of the Third Age the part played by the Hobbits in the great events that led to the incusion of the Shire in the Reunited Kingdom awakened among them a more widespread interest in their own history; and many of their traditions, up to that time still mainly oral, were collected and written down. The greater families were also concerned with events in the Kingdom at lasrge, and many of their members studied its ancient histories and legends. By the end of the First Century of the Fourth Age there were already to be found in the Shire several libraries that contained many historical books and records.

The largest of these collections were probably at Undertowers, at Great Smials, and at Brandy Hall. ... The most important copy (of the Red Book) was kept at Great Smials... the Thain's Book was thus the first copy made of the Red Book and contained mych that was later omitted or lost... In Minas Tirith it recieved much annotation...
...
Since Meriadoc and Peregrin became the heads of their great families, and a the same time kept up their connexions with Rohan and Gondor, the libraries at Bucklebury and Tuckborough contained much that did not appear in the Red Book.

So... if we take Mithadan's approach, then not only do Sam and Elanor have to be instructed that Frodo & Bilbo's visit not be recorded; but also, all of the Tooks that might write something down, and also, all of the Brandybucks, that might someday write something down.

That's a lot of potential historians that have to be quieted down.

Numenor was easy-- a big wave took care of most of the problem, and the surviving ship was under Mithadan's oath.

Beleriand-- all the eyewitnesses there drowned too.

This is different.

[ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

mark12_30

03-15-2003, 01:54 AM

However--

Having just consulted with a close and trusty friend, as to whether I have gone overboard in zealousness-- it appears I have-- I'll drop the issue.

So once again-- nevermind, and, "Uncle". Resolve, or not, as you all choose, and I'll write Frodo as best I can. I apologize (especially to you, Sharon) for headaches/heartaches I've caused.

So: "Nevermind, Uncle."

smilies/rolleyes.gif

ps. I'll leapfrog the hobbits' bedtime post til an appropriate spot, since Pio isn't done with dinner. Sorry about that.

[ March 15, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

mark12_30

03-15-2003, 02:39 AM

Whitelady Rose, what a beautiful post! And wild! A hobbit-lass riding a stallion into battle against orcs! that was great!

theWhiteLady

03-15-2003, 09:32 AM

Thank you so much, Helen! *bows and blushes profusely*

Gandalf the Gray: Greetings! I am delighted to see Rose shall accompany you on to the Green Dragon! I look very much forward to the trip smilies/smile.gif

Birdland

03-15-2003, 09:35 AM

I've filled in my "save" from page 5, March 14, 2003 09:03 AM.

Child of the 7th Age

03-15-2003, 11:28 AM

I like it! thank you.

Regarding the family that's still lost, see my most recent post and my e-mail.

sharon

piosenniel

03-15-2003, 02:28 PM

Gandalf and theWhiteLady

Please check your PM's and have fun on the ride back to The Green Dragon!

Gandalf_theGrey

03-15-2003, 03:47 PM

NOTE #1:

I've filled in my SAVE from page 6, March 15, 2002 at 2:04 AM.

NOTE #2:

It will be good to be posting together again with you, theWhiteLady! Well met. smilies/smile.gif

NOTE #3:

Indeed we will, piosenniel! Thanks!

At your Service,

Gandalf the Grey

piosenniel

03-15-2003, 03:49 PM

"Well now, ever since that Entdraught in Fangorn Forest I'm nearly as large as a pony. But if I'm to carry Rose all that way, I draw the line at wearing a saddle."

Funny! Well done post, Gandalf! Glad you're on board with us!

*slips into her white shoes and heads for work . . . sigh . . .

mark12_30

03-15-2003, 04:39 PM

Sharon, Frodo has spoken his mind in the post of March 14, 2003 08:10 PM. You recall Frodo's hesitancy about the big party list; I decided to play that up a bit. Let me know if there are any edits you'd like.

I suspect that Frodo will be chatting with Lindo in the barn before too many more days go by.

Regards, --the Thundering Herd of Hobbit-Lads (THOHL)

Carrûn

03-15-2003, 06:27 PM

Frodo-lad's feeling a bit lost, what should he be doing right now?

Child of the 7th Age

03-15-2003, 06:42 PM

Carrun,

There are two things coming up.

One is the dinner party where your mom will take you to see Amaranthas. You'll see Pio again and also meet Mithadan. He may interest you as he, like Pio, carries a number of interesting looking weapons.

You're welcome to think about the dinner coming up. And also of course to post once you get there.

I believe the kids may also be planning a shivaree for Cami andMaura. If you're not sure what that is, look it up!) So that will be coming soon. (Once you hear about it in the game, you could go searching your mother's cupboards for pots and pans.)

sharon

piosenniel

03-16-2003, 02:48 AM

No, Pio will not be at the dinner party. Hopefully Mithadan will.

piosenniel

03-16-2003, 05:04 AM

Carrûn

Please check your PM's

Child of the 7th Age

03-16-2003, 05:49 AM

Pio

Sorry. Of course, you won't be back yet.

Helen

No, Bilbo is fine in the post. Just what we discussed.

sharon

Child of the 7th Age

03-16-2003, 08:51 AM

I have filled in the post of 3/15 at 11:40 a.m. with Cami's lament for her children.

I do not know where this is leading. It does carry forward a theme that was spelled out clearly in the earliest post in Greenwood.

Speaking as the happy mother of two, I would find Cami's situation intolerable. Cami is also used to a very different model for families from her childhood in the Shire.

sharon

[ March 16, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

Child of the 7th Age

03-16-2003, 08:59 AM

Helen,

Please see my pm. concerning Gamba's "fear" of Cami and her response.

sharon

[ March 16, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

mark12_30

03-16-2003, 10:31 AM

Cami,

I sent you a PM about Gamba. --Helen

[ March 16, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

piosenniel

03-16-2003, 01:20 PM

I want to clarify where we are Game time (Up to my save/post of March 16, 2003 05:53 AM)

Lotessë:

20th - dinner party at Inn for Bilbo & Frodo

21st - Frodo's walk, Mith is sprung, Cami reads Maura's letter

22nd - Maura arrives, Tol Fuin & Greenwood contingents arrive, fracas in the Inn yard, Pio head east/Merry comes west - they meet in Frogmorton, Bilbo goes to Amarantha's - Party to be "day after tomorrow"

23rd - Merry takes Rose to the Green Dragon,
Morning Vows, Amaranthas visits the Inn and then calls at Sam and roses to borrow Frodo-lad.

24th - Bachelor Party, Miz Rose and children go to Amaranthas' house

Once the party is done, there will be 6 days left to the month of Lotessë, then the 30 day month of Nárië begins - during which there will be a time compression in the storyline to get us to Loendë (Midyear's Day) and the birth of the twins.

[ March 16, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

piosenniel

03-16-2003, 03:07 PM

Auriel

Stoat sounds like the reprehensible sort of person Pio would love to skewer!

Great intro post for the boss's toady!

Child of the 7th Age

03-17-2003, 07:11 AM

"Well, I'm rather afraid to talk about this, because I'm quite confused, but I don't know what's going to happen to these children of Piosenniel's after... after Gondolin. I'm worried about them. Are you in a position to make sure they are taken care of?"

"I don’t know what you mean, " Frodo said, baffled.

Lindo took a deep breath. "I've been wanting to mention this to Maura, only I don't see what he could do any more than I; and he's been so busy, and I haven't wanted to interrupt his time with Nitir. Pio survived the fall of Gondolin, and escaped, and grew to maturity, and lived a full life. But Frodo, at some point-- and I don't know when, and you mustn't mention this to any of them, of course-- she will return to Gondolin, and she will fall in defense of Idril's household. And when that happens, I don't know how old these twins will be. I didn't hear about them at all during the two days when Nitir and her friends were in the city with us. In fact I didn't know she had ever married or had any children."

Helen, I am sorry, but I don't understand. We know that Pio is in the 12th year of the Fourth Age, past the point when she would start out on the Star and return to Gondolin.

Are you saying in your last post that Lindo is confused about the timeline, and therefore doesn't realize that the voyage of the Star is in the past?

Even so, why would he ask Frodo to take care of the children, when Mithadan is their father?

Sorry I am confused.

sharon

mark12_30

03-17-2003, 07:57 AM

Sharon,

references to Piosenniel have been removed.

[ March 17, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

Child of the 7th Age

03-17-2003, 12:04 PM

Maura has responded to Gamba.

I needed to have some back and forth. If anything needs an edit, let me know.

Or if you don't like I will tear down, and try again tomorrow.

sharon

Mithadan

03-17-2003, 12:39 PM

Play it as you wish, Mark 12_30. I am concerned that this is confusing those who were not part of the Star's prior voyage, so lets tie this up as simply and quickly as we can, I think.

mark12_30

03-17-2003, 12:42 PM

It's good! Now you've got me curious.

piosenniel

03-17-2003, 12:49 PM

Please don't discuss any more of my character's history in the storyline without consulting me.

I want to keep her part in this story focused on this small segment of present time which will include the marriage of Cami and Maura and the birth of her and Mithadan's twins.

[ March 17, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

mark12_30

03-17-2003, 01:09 PM

References to Piosenniel have been removed.

[ March 17, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

piosenniel

03-17-2003, 01:47 PM

Thank you.

Child of the 7th Age

03-17-2003, 02:44 PM

Orual,

I did a brief post on dinner preparations at Bag-end. If you want me to change any of the part with Sam, I will do so.

Orual, Helen --If Sam or Frodo get a chance, please post and add in your two cents on dinner preparations. The dinner will be tomorrow evening (game time), with Frodo, Bilbo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin in attendence.

Maura definitely has other plans that have to do with Cami!

sharon

mark12_30

03-17-2003, 06:34 PM

Something that's been puzzling me, Sharon--

My mother's neighbors did a "shivaree" when they were on their honeymoon at the cottage, banging pots and pans; and she cannot recall the event without a shudder of sheer revulsion and horror. She absolutely hated it.

(I've got to side with my mom-- I think I'd shoot someone who came banging pots and pans around my house.)

I take it you see this differently? was that the "good thing" Maura was trying to get Gamba interested in?

--puzzled

Child of the 7th Age

03-17-2003, 10:13 PM

Cami grins.....

Ah, to each his own. Maura was quite sure Cami would love to have her boys organize such a thing! And this sort of gesture seems right up Gamba's alley.

It's done anytime in the first week. Night 2 or 3 sounds good to me.

No, I wouldn't want to have strangers doing this, but I honestly have fond memories of such a practice from my grad school buddies. (Even in grad school, medievalists had a reputation for being a little crazy.)

Gandalf_theGrey

03-17-2003, 11:03 PM

Greetings all,

It having been St. Patrick's Day and with my also spending the evening following historic events unfold with the President's speech, I apologize for not being around Monday night to post. I look forward to remedying the situation by filling in my SAVE post Tuesday night.

And thank you for your kind words above, piosenniel!

* bows *

Merry, escort to Rose and tongue-tied poet smilies/smile.gif // aka Gandalf

mark12_30

03-18-2003, 11:12 AM

All players of Hobbit-children, please send me a PM. THanks.

mark12_30

03-18-2003, 12:16 PM

I think Bird found Pio around midnight and Gamba found her mid-morning the next day, so Bird's post & my post shouldn't be side by side. When some more posts fill in I can move mine out.

Child of the 7th Age

03-18-2003, 05:24 PM

White Lady,

I am going to fill in a response to Rose's arrival at the Inn.

Go ahead and do whatever post you planned on doing. If any revisions or edits are needed, I will do that in my own post.

sharon

Birdland

03-19-2003, 12:51 AM

My mother's neighbors did a "shivaree" when they were on their honeymoon at the cottage, banging pots and pans; and she cannot recall the event without a shudder of sheer revulsion and horror. She absolutely hated it.
Helen - though the origins may have been lost in the ages, the purpose of a "shivaree" was originally to salute the bridegroom in his quest to, uh - how do I put this delicately? - to "deflower" his bride. The banging of the pots and pans would usually be accompanied by shouted comments of a somewhat, er - hmmmmm - "bawdy nature".

No wonder you mother hated it!

Gandalf_theGrey

03-19-2003, 01:01 AM

Just a note to let you all know that I've filled in my SAVE post from March 16, 2003 06:42 PM.

I'd been going to drop a Private Message as requested to theWhiteLady about this, but seeing as how she and Child of the 7th Age have already posted to the effect that Rose and Cami are now reunited at The Green Dragon, I assume the post on this thread will do. smilies/smile.gif

Gandalf the Grey

Child of the 7th Age

03-19-2003, 01:07 AM

Bird --

Many traditional customs have that at the base. For example, the bride tossing the garter is an attempt to gentrify the older custom of the wedding guests literally stripping the clothes off the bride.

The garter was to act as a substitute. And, yes, Cami will indeed toss her garter in the public ceremony near the end of the game!

********************************************

Rose Goodchild's and Cami's posts of 3/18 at 7:23 am and 7:49 am. have been filled in. Also, Sam's and Bilbo's posts of 3/17 at 9:00 and ll:04 pm

Gandalf, that's fine. No problem.

sharon

Child of the 7th Age

03-19-2003, 01:33 AM

Helen,

I always envisioned that Gandalf had outlined the entire voyage of the Star to Bilbo and Frodo, since they lived in the safety of the West.

It sounds from your post as if Bilbo knows but Frodo doesn't. Assuming this to be true, Bilbo would have told Frodo the truth abou anything he asked, unless he'd been specifically told not to do that. If that was the case--if Bilbo was told not to disclose anything, he would simply say so to Frodo, "I can't discuss that," rather than dissembling. Or perhaps I've read this post wrong.

Since this is a Shire game, we don't want to go deeply into the older history from Gondor, since the other posters in the game aren't familiar with it. Is there a way to achieve your desired goal of "secrecy" by focusing on the doubt and uncertainty growing among the current Shire residents as to the identity of Bilbo and Frodo? Perhaps funny (or serious) posts showing folk debating just who these strangers are, and whether or not they are imposters?

Sorry to be a pest, but I know this past history can be confusing unless people have actually read the whole prior RPG.

sharon

Child of the 7th Age

03-19-2003, 01:38 AM

Helen, White Lady

Could the two of you get together by pm and come up with some kind of meeting between Rose and Lindo, since they used to be friends?

I think you would really enjoy writing together!

sharon

[ March 19, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

Child of the 7th Age

03-19-2003, 08:24 AM

Helen,

Please hang on. I have to go to work and take a sick child to the doctor. I will respond later, I promise.

sharon

Mithadan

03-19-2003, 11:09 AM

Mark 12_30, I'd like to give you the opportunity to delete the above post as well as you last post on the RPG thread until you have a chance to discuss this with Child and everyone else and seek a reolution to your quandry. Thank you.

piosenniel

03-19-2003, 01:10 PM

NOTE TO ALL PLAYERS:

The previous discussions concerning prior history of the Lonely Star crew and concerns about character interactions which already have such a prior history, will now be discussed via email or PM between the players concerned.

Piosenniel, Shire Moderator

*********************************************

For the immediate present, we are going to be moving the Game through these simultaneous sections:

1.)the all-male dinner party at Bag End

2.)the party at Amaranthas' house for Miz Rose and her children: Pio, Mithadan, and hopefully the flighty Bird will be there if she didn't drink the entire bottle of Marish Mead by herself smilies/smile.gif; Rose Goodchild (tLW)I hope you can come also

3.)Cami and Maura will exchange their vows in private (Big party and public exchange of vows to follow later)

Then:

Once we get through this section of the story - we are moving into a part of the storyline where the 'baddies' and their actions begin to be heard about more.

This will set us up for conflicts between the Shiriff and poor benighted Mithadan, and probably Bird (if they see her in human form).

We will also start to hear stories about several children in the Shire who have been kidnapped.

So, begin to think about how your characters will be affected in the above situations, what they'll be thinking about, what you want them to be doing.

Please PM me or Sharon(Child)if you have any questions you'ld like to work out with us.

Great job so far, all! Thanks! smilies/smile.gif

ArwenBaggins

03-19-2003, 03:09 PM

OK guys, I'm back! I stayed at the camp a little longer than expected, but my new archery skills are worth it!

I am very busy tonight, but I will read and post tomorrow.

Thanks for carrying Elanor!

piosenniel

03-19-2003, 04:59 PM

Welcome back, Arwen Baggins!

Just refreshing this memo to this page:

sequence of events for the next section of the story line:

1.)the all-male dinner party at Bag End

2.)the party at Amaranthas' house for Miz Rose and her children: Pio, Mithadan, and hopefully the flighty Bird will be there if she didn't drink the entire bottle of Marish Mead by herself smilies/smile.gif; Rose Goodchild (tLW)I hope you can come also

3.)Cami and Maura will exchange their vows in private (Big party and public exchange of vows to follow later)

Then:

Once we get through this section of the story - we are moving into a part of the storyline where the 'baddies' and their actions begin to be heard about more.

This will set us up for conflicts between the Shiriff and poor benighted Mithadan, and probably Bird (if they see her in human form).

We will also start to hear stories about several children in the Shire who have been kidnapped.

So, begin to think about how your characters will be affected in the above situations, what they'll be thinking about, what you want them to be doing.

Please PM me or Sharon(Child)if you have any questions you'ld like to work out with us.

Great job so far, all! Thanks! smilies/smile.gif

[ March 20, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

Child of the 7th Age

03-19-2003, 05:00 PM

Arwen,

Great to see you back!

Everyone

Doug Platypus who was supposed to play Bill Ferny has had to withdraw from the game. Fortunately, Nurumaiel has agreed to play the role in his absence. Many thanks. The hobbits of the Shire look forward to making things very miserable for your character!

Auriel --- You two will want to get together. Pio and I have discussed a possible sequence of events which you might want to look at and see if it sounds workable. It is bare bones, just the vague outline of what might happen. You can take and run with it any way you please. I will get that to you later today.

sharon

[ March 19, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

Child of the 7th Age

03-19-2003, 07:28 PM

Merry (Gandalf) and Pippin (Dragoneyes)----Please check your pms.

sharon

Child of the 7th Age

03-20-2003, 01:12 AM

White Lady

Please see your pm's.

Zira's family and Rose Goodchild have also received a last-minute invitation to the party which Amaranthas is giving.

You may want to post or reserve a spot for the dinner party.

sharon

[ March 20, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

piosenniel

03-20-2003, 02:12 AM

Rose Cotton, Carrûn, and Arwen Baggins -

Please check your PM's.

Child of the 7th Age

03-20-2003, 11:07 AM

Auriel, Nurumaiel,

As we discussed, I have sent through the general outline with indications of general bandit activity.

Let me know how you decide to proceed.

sharon

piosenniel

03-20-2003, 01:15 PM

Pio has indeed married well - not only can he captain a ship quite admirably, and use a blade almost as well as she, but now she discovers he is well versed in the intricacies of diapering. smilies/wink.gif

Child of the 7th Age

03-20-2003, 03:33 PM

Regarding Pio's description of her husband:

and use a blade almost as well as she,

If Pio keeps making comments like these, she may soon find herself minus any husband! I mean, you know how all men are about these things.

BTW, you are not seeing double. I have leapfrogged my post forward, sinc it seemed better to place it later in terms of the timing.

Cami

[ March 20, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

piosenniel

03-20-2003, 03:38 PM

He is more muscled than Pio and has a longer reach - but she is quicker, and her technique is excellent . . .

OK, she relents - he is as good as she . . .

piosenniel

03-20-2003, 04:01 PM

Sharon - you have not gone blind!

I have copied your post and will put it up just previous to mine later tonight.

Child of the 7th Age

03-20-2003, 04:05 PM

Thanks for the note and pm. For one horrifying moment, I thought a mysterious post cruncher had eaten it up.

Your plan is fine.

sharon

piosenniel

03-20-2003, 04:44 PM

Sharon -

I moved the posts for the parties we had both put on earlier to page 7, flows better that way - wraps up the Angelica and pio segment.

theWhiteLady

See your PM from me smilies/biggrin.gif

[ March 20, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

Nurumaiel

03-20-2003, 06:26 PM

Okay, I'm just a bit confused. Which party is this they're preparing for? Is this the on Angelica and family are invited to? Just wondering if I'll be needed here . . .

piosenniel

03-20-2003, 06:35 PM

Nuru

There are 2 parties:

One is at Bag End - that will be Frodo and Sam, Bilbo, Merry and Pippin. An all guy party.

The other is at Amaranthas' house - Bilbo had asked her if she would have Miz Rose and the kids over while the party at Bag end is going on.

The second is the one you have been invited to by Pio. Miz Rose and children will be there. Pio for sure. Cami's adopted daughter, Rose Goodchild, also. Possibly Mithadan.

[ March 20, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

Child of the 7th Age

03-20-2003, 07:05 PM

As Pio has said, we have two small dinnners going on at once, which can be confusing. I have taken the liberty of editing everyone's save to show what their character's name is and what party they will be posting for.

Please try to make it clear in the opening sentence or two of your post which party you are attending. That way other people will clearly understand when they read your post exactly where you are.

For example, you can mention some of the people who are there or the location of the party itself. E.g. Merry was extremely glad to be seeing Bilbo and Frodo again and enjoying the comforts of Bag-end, or, Rose Goodchild was looking forward to spending the evening with Pio, and getting a chance to talk with Amaranthas.

Refer back to Pio's comments just above if there's any confusion about the two parties, and which one your character is at.

sharon

Nurumaiel

03-20-2003, 07:47 PM

Thank you, Pio and Child. That clears it all up now. *bows*

Child of the 7th Age

03-22-2003, 11:34 AM

Gandalf,

Your mailbox is full. Please check my earlier messages.

Dragoneyes, Orual,

Please check your pms regarding the Bag-end party.

Cami

Child of the 7th Age

03-22-2003, 11:34 AM

Auriel, Nuru,

Please check your pms.

sharon

piosenniel

03-22-2003, 04:56 PM

All those at the party at Amaranthas': tomorrow, real time, I will get all of us back to our homes.

Please either SAVE a place for yourself to post about being at the party at the old Dragon's or PM me your post and let me place it for you.

Thanks!

Child of the 7th Age

03-22-2003, 06:42 PM

The same for the folk at the Bag-end dinner.

Please do your post or reserve a save space by Sunday at midnight (central time). Alternately, I'll be glad to paste it in earlier in the thread, if you send it to me.

I will do the wrap up late Sunday night.

sharon

Gandalf_theGrey

03-22-2003, 08:49 PM

sharon,

Thank you for alerting me to the fact that my mailbox was full. I've cleaned it out some, and can now once again receive Private Messages. smilies/smile.gif

* bows, lights a fresh bowl of pipeweed *

Gandalf the Grey

Mithadan

03-22-2003, 09:23 PM

Pio, Mith should go to Amarantha's, please post for me if I cannot. Thanks.

piosenniel

03-23-2003, 03:18 AM

Sweet Mithadan has relented and has gone to the party with Pio.

Child of the 7th Age

03-23-2003, 04:25 AM

Pio,

I did a piggy-back post in your space, since the chronology seemed to fit in best there.

sharon

Nurumaiel

03-23-2003, 01:16 PM

I've filled in my post from March 22, 08:12 PM. Pio, you might want to check it. I had Angelica invite Peony, as you suggested, but if it doesn't work here, I can edit the post and we can arrange a meeting at the Inn or something along those lines.

piosenniel

03-23-2003, 01:28 PM

Wonderful post, Nuru!

What I'll do is write up a little interaction for Pio, Angelica, and Peony and insert it where Peony and Angelica go to find Pio.

piosenniel

03-23-2003, 01:29 PM

Arwen Baggins

Nice interaction between Elanor and Goldi - it fit right in! smilies/biggrin.gif

Child of the 7th Age

03-23-2003, 02:51 PM

Arwen, Nuru,

Very good!

Bilbo is about to get suspicious about those shadows in the dark.....

sharon

Auriel Haevasawen

03-23-2003, 05:06 PM

Have contacted Nuru, will be following the skeleton you've laid out for us!

Orual

03-23-2003, 05:20 PM

Filled in my March 20, 2003 08:56 PM post. Sorry it took so long!

~*~Orual~*~

dragoneyes

03-23-2003, 05:51 PM

Same here, except that my post was a 6:13pm on the 20th March.

Child of the 7th Age

03-24-2003, 02:40 AM

Pippin and Sam,

Many thanks. They both look good.

Cami

Nurumaiel

03-24-2003, 02:06 PM

Would it be all right if I put up a 'Save' space for Ferny to talk with Auriel's character?

piosenniel

03-24-2003, 02:14 PM

Nuru - yes, please do. Since the parties are now over, we should be moving the focus to the baddies and their nefarious schemings.

I am working on a post where some parties of traders have come to the Inn bringing their wares, and they have brought rumours of 2 kidnappings in the Eastfarthing - one in Budge Ford; one in Whitfurrows near it.

Can you refer to these in your post?

Child of the 7th Age

03-24-2003, 02:14 PM

Nuru,

Yes, definitely.

*********************************************

The final Bag-end post and Cami's vows are finally up and edited.

Cami

Nurumaiel

03-24-2003, 02:16 PM

I most certainly will mention the kidnappings.

piosenniel

03-24-2003, 02:18 PM

The Vows - Nicely done, Sharon! smilies/smile.gif

Do you want to save your original save place or delete it?

Nurumaiel

03-24-2003, 02:33 PM

Auriel
Please checks your PMs

Child of the 7th Age

03-24-2003, 03:07 PM

My, the bandits are popular folk today!

Nurumaiel, Auriel, please check your pms.

********************************************

Pio,

Thank you. I'll delete it late tonight.

sharon

Child of the 7th Age

03-25-2003, 07:45 AM

Orual---

Frodo has asked Sam another question in his last post.

Pio--

Please check your pms.

sharon

[ March 25, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

piosenniel

03-25-2003, 04:19 PM

Sharon - left you room to talk to Hob about bows, if you wish.

Child of the 7th Age

03-26-2003, 02:43 PM

Auriel, Nuru,

Please check your pms.

********************************************

I have filled in my missing post of 3/25 at 5:08 pm which concerns the selection of a bow for Cami and the selection of a name for her daughter.

Cami

piosenniel

03-27-2003, 12:29 PM

We are slowing the Game down until this coming Monday due to the busy schedules of many of the posters.

Sunday evening, real time, hopefully, there will be a post by Sam (Orual) opening a meeting at the Inn concerning how the good citizens of the Hobbiton/Bywater area can jorganize to defend themselves against the Big Folk menace which has crept into the Shire.. I would like this to be two days game time from our present day (which is 24 Lotessë)- So, when we return to post on Monday it will be 26 Lotessë (27 Thrimidge S.R. - shire calendar)

We would like all of you to take an active part in the meeting voicing your opinions and suggestions about what you think the Hobbits should do to prevent any of their children from being kidnapped.

piosenniel

03-30-2003, 09:31 PM

Please note the time shift forward of 2 days. It is now the day of the meeting: 26 Lotessë (27 Thrimidge S.R.)

piosenniel

03-31-2003, 12:51 AM

I'm confused - what time of day is the meeting happening day or night?

And where is it happening? If it's at the 'Town Hall' where is that?

Child of the 7th Age

03-31-2003, 07:02 AM

In an earlier post, Cami had specified the town hall in the evening. Sam suggests it's the town hall.

It definitely needs to be evening, since Stoatie is going to spy, and needs cover of darkness. I don't believe there was a town hall in the Third Age, but then there also wasn't a Locks in Hobbiton or Bywater, which I believe we have as well. (The original Locks was in Michel Delving.)

I mentally had them building a Hobiton/Bywater Locks in the early fourth age! Perhaps the City Hall was the same, or we can shift the meeting to the Inn. (The Inn might work better since Stoatie's initial goal is to spy on Pio, I think, and he would have heard she was there.)

Either way, we need to iron out the discrepency between Sam and Cami. Let us know.....

sharon

[ March 31, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

piosenniel

03-31-2003, 11:26 AM

OK - it's evening - the meeting is at the Town Hall.

There are a few local lads in the Green Dragon having a heated discussion on their own, and drinking ale.

The nursemaid, Gilly Took has shown up and Pio has met her.

So, obviously Pio is not at the Town Meeting, which she shouldn't really be attending anyway.

Child of the 7th Age

04-01-2003, 03:08 PM

White Lady,

Very nice post filled in the meeting sequence at 3/31, 7:17 p.m.

White Lady, Nuru, Arwen, Bird, Pio--

Please check your pms.

Nurumaiel

04-02-2003, 12:26 AM

I have filled in my 'save' post from April 01, 2003 05:21 PM. It did turn out a little longer than I was planning, but that doesn't hurt. smilies/smile.gif

piosenniel

04-02-2003, 01:39 AM

Stoatie - you have made a narrow escape!

Almost beaned by a falling mug, your shadowy figure was seen haring away from the Inn . . . smilies/eek.gif

Child of the 7th Age

04-02-2003, 06:31 AM

Arwen Baggins has also filled in her save post of 3/31 at 4:48 p.m.

Looking good!

Cami

piosenniel

04-02-2003, 07:17 PM

Here's the new character I'm introducing as the nursemaid for the twins:

Name: Gilliflower Took (Gilly) – the twin’s nursemaid

Age: 20

Race: Hobbit

Appearance: Average height for a Hobbit lass of her age. Dark brown curly hair, pulled back, and out of her way. Brown eyes, flecked with green. Given to borrowing her brother’s breeches and shirts when she’s out and about hiking the country around Waymeet.

Personality/Skills: A bright young woman, with a good sense of humor, not averse to stirring up a little trouble in a good natured way, ready and willing for any opportunity to 'see the world' outside the confines of Waymeet. Because she comes from a large family and is the eldest, she is very skilled at taking care of children – from infants to teens. Her only skills with weapons are her small carving knife, and her stout beechwood walking stick.

History: Eldest child of 12. Father - Everard Took; Mother – Mentha Brandybuck. From Waymeet, Westfarthing, The Shire. Since early childhood has had a great love for any stories concerning travels beyond the confines of her town or the Shire Bounds. She has always had the urge to leave the confines of her family and town and seek a little adventure and knowledge of the wider world. She has in fact left her family after a long, heated argument over her acceptance of Amaranthas’ proposal to come to Bywater to care for Pio's twins. She is pinning her hopes on being able to travel with Pio and Mithadan when they leave the Shire to return to Gondor. The thought of sailing on their ship with them is a secret desire of hers (She has learned much about Pio from Miz Amaranthas’ letters to her.)