Where did Tom go? [Archive] - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

anduin

06-20-2000, 07:00 AM

I am assuming that they won't get into the trouble that requires them to be saved. You bring up an interesting point Kris.....maybe it is just a rumor......maybe the rumor was even started by the powers that be at New Line......maybe they knew that fans would go nuts if ol' Tom was left out, and they are saving it as a surprise for us. As the date of the release nears....say around this time next year.....they will start another rumor that ol' Tom is back in!! It would be a brilliant piece of marketing (would that be the correct word?) on their part. Man, almosts settles the fears, doesn't it? Cool, I'm a spirit.....can you see me or no?

IronParrot

06-21-2000, 09:17 PM

That would be one real cheap tactic... if they suddenly tell us Tom is back in... How are they going to work around him? <hr>IronParrot, administrator of <a href=http://pub4.ezboard.com/bnicktheshadow>Nick the Shadow</a> and <a href=http://pub3.ezboard.com/btomorrowzeworld>Tomorrow, Ze World!</a> and moderator at <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/bbenjaminstolkienboard>Entmoot</a>, is famous for wearing pens on his belt and is currently (ICQ #22843402).I'd put a witty quote here, but most of my best ones can be found <a href=http://pub4.ezboard.com/fnicktheshadowmiscellaneous.showMessage?topicID=40 .topic>here</a>.

galpsi

06-22-2000, 12:53 AM

Well, at least we'll all be spared that absurd story about badgers and their queer ways. And did you really want to see Sarah Michelle Gellar as Goldberry?

burrahobbit

06-22-2000, 01:08 AM

Would have been better than Liv Tyler as Arwen. *shudder* What the hell kind of name is Liv anyway? What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

galpsi

06-22-2000, 08:27 PM

Liv Abreviated latinate.

burrahobbit

06-22-2000, 09:14 PM

Oh? What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

galpsi

06-22-2000, 09:32 PM

Yes, short for Lividula Talentae.

burrahobbit

06-23-2000, 12:51 AM

Oh. Well then, still an odd name, but I would like to formally retract my comment about her name. I would still want to see someone else as Arwen, though. What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?Edited by <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000062>burrahobbit</A> at: 6/23/00 2:53:21 am

Suldaledhel

08-01-2000, 02:48 PM

I Hope Tom is in! I personlly hold Tom Bombadil to be one of my favorite characters. I hope that this topic is about rumors and nothing more!!! I agree that Tom is needed in the movie especially to arm the hobbits and introduce that the trees in Middle earth are more than they appear! I do not see why Tom is being left out of the film i believe he plays a valuable if not vital role in the movie. If he is not shown, then where did Frodo get his dagger he used on weather top??!! I think that Bombadil would also be a successive comic relief character that would appeal to younger crowds. As always you are entitled to alter my opinion and please do so! Goodbye and farewell wherever you fare, and may your eyries recieve you at the journey's end!!

Wizard of the Secret Fire

08-01-2000, 04:25 PM

Re: I Hope Tom is in! I really seems like if Tom is gone, all sources say that (like E! Online). It is really sad From E! Online: Who's playing Tom Bombadil? Carlos Fernandez, Madrid Sadly, Tom didn't make the cut. Charming and rustic though he may have been, Mr. Bombadil fell victim to the time constraints involved in translating novels into films. I really hope that they keep at least one scene or two from the Old Forest...and the Barrow-Downs, it would look great on screen... The dagger debate have I heard so many times now. Easy solution for PJ: Let Aragorn bring them and tell the story about them. "You cannot pass. I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor." Usually guarding <a href="http://www.theoldforest.cjb.net">The Old Forest website. </a> You can find all information you need about Tolkien and the new Lord of the Rings movies there. Feel free to visit the recently re-started EZ Board, <a href="http://pub9.ezboard.com/btheoldforest29887">The Bonfire Glade</a>

Neldoreth

08-01-2000, 06:36 PM

Re: Where did Tom go? I think if Tom and Goldberry are not in the film, I would like to at least hear about them and what the fellowship encountered after (Tom and then the barrowdowns episode) just so people that HAVE READ THE TRILOGY can follow the story. Somthings just CANT be left out unless you leave out a lot of stuff, then it will just Suck and I WONT PAY A DIME TO SEE THE MOVIES OR BUY MERCHADISE.period... Of course its just my opinion, you dont have to like it.

The Barrow-Wight

08-01-2000, 06:57 PM

Re: Where did Tom go? I understand you feeling, Neldoreth. I just don't share them. I'd go see these films if the left out Frodo... just so I could talk about how bad they were! But honestly, these films are going to be fine without Tom, not perfect, but OK. btw.... welcome to the board! The Barrow-Wight (RKittle) I usually haunt <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">The Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi">Middle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.

lindil

08-05-2000, 07:53 AM

Where did the knives go? the wizard has the solution to the swords, if I may be allowed to elaborate: ... Aragorn reveals himself from behind the door ,as Barliman stands w/ mouth agape .then dramatically flashes back his cloak revealing.... a private collection of arnorean weaponry, including 4 large knives a collapsable longbow, a slingshot w/oo9 gauge pellets and an inflatable catapult ...'I have to have some back up's since the one my dad left me is in peices'...he says showing them the shards of narsil..'not much use is it says Sam',suddenly realizing why the shifty stranger had such a bulky cloak...

Suldaledhel

08-05-2000, 09:44 AM

Bombadil vs Arwen I feel that the role of Arwen should be reduced to as it is in the story and Bombadil be brought back. After all dont we all agree that Arwen's role has been inflated too much??!! And the dropping of Bombadil is an outrage!! I think that the to should be reversed if anything. Or at least mention Bombadil or something of that sort. Goodbye and Farewell wherever you fare and may your eyries recieve you at the journey's end!!!!

lindil

08-05-2000, 10:48 AM

Re: Bombadil vs Arwen I am 100% with you . this was debated rather furiously at the Xenite board and I was suprised at the number of well read tolkien fans could postulate dropping one and dubiously embelishing the other , I was a persecuted minority .[I deserved most of it though] any way I can [sadly ] understand that unless they are going to make 7 movies they can't fit all the sub-plots in and I must [sadly again ] agree that the old forest/bombadil episode is an obvious choice for deletion[no barrow downs-a bitter blow for this site ] however exactly likeyourself it could come in for mention [maybe as a dream of frodo's that Gandalf reads as he is recuperating in rivendell- even just a quick glimpse of him at the downs and the willow and giving those swords top the hobbits.would take , I guess,less than a minute and yet maintain the integrity of the tale. the latest I heard was that liv was doing so poorly that much of her embellishment was axed [ this comes from Pro-warrior Arwen M.Martinez himself so it isn't wishful thinking -even if it turns out a rumour- but we can only hope.

Samwise of the shire

03-13-2001, 03:25 PM

Re:I disagree and agree RELAX PEOPLES,TB is not importent he's only mentioned twice and seen once I mean sure he suplies the hobbits with info on the trees- the hobbits dont get it though,Merry and Pippin are all talking about fangorn and treebeard scares the heck out of them-,so saying TB is importent is like saying Bergil is importent -both have jobs, bergil finds the athelas but Merry could've, TB tells them about the trees but the hobbits could've met strider and he could've told them.-so it doesnt really matter.And as for Arwen going into battle and all I entireley agree she's supposed to stay in rivendell and weave a banner for aragorn,not do anything else, and I read a rumor that she kills the Nazgul,not Eowen and Merry Samwise ps lindil that one post about the weapons was hilarious

Lady Eowyn

03-13-2001, 05:26 PM

Tom I can't believe I missed this discussion for a whole year. *sigh I gotta say, that I'm not really sad that they left out Tom. He is annoying and weird evertime I read the books I wonder what the heck his singing is about. I think it's not too bad that they left him out. I'm gonna miss the scene with the Wight though... And about that Arwen thing: IT DISGUSTS ME. Leaving Glorfindel out for her.... makes me mad every time I think about it....

Elenanna

03-14-2001, 11:04 PM

Re: Tom I knew about Glorfindel but i had no clue about tom. So there gonna leave him out? WHY?!!! If tolkien was alive he'd be disgusted to. and the arwen thing, why are they putting her in, what is she doing exactly? Also the thing about Rose Cotton she gets married to sam in the end so why involve her more? (sorry if this has already been discused, but i'm rather uniformed about the movies Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a>

Mister Underhill

03-15-2001, 01:16 AM

Re: Tom <blockquote>Quote:<hr> If tolkien was alive he'd be disgusted too. <hr></blockquote>I disagree with this. In discussions in Letters about plans for an animated movie adaptation of LotR, JRRT clearly favored abridgement over compression "with resultant over-crowding and confusion, blurring of climaxes, and general degradation". I think he'd rather have seen scenes that aren't crucial to the main story go rather than include them in a compressed, diminished form that also took valuable time away from the real important stuff.

Lady Eowyn

03-15-2001, 01:37 AM

Re: Tom I think I've read somewhere that they expanded the part of rose, so the people understand what her realtionship with sam is. I mean before the end of the book she isnt' mentioned anywhere. So I think they just expand it so non-readers understand it better..

red

03-15-2001, 06:45 AM

Re: Re: Tom <blockquote>Quote:<hr> ...but i'm rather uniformed about the movies.<hr></blockquote> That's what I'm here for, Elenanna! There is a whole movie section at the Downs. Or if you have any questions, just post them here! Long live PJ!! -réd <blockquote>"He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer." -A Short Rest, The Hobbit</blockquote>

Elenanna

03-15-2001, 09:43 AM

Re: Tom mr. underhill i sort of agree w/ u, but i'm sure he wouldnt want tom to be skipped out! He was a main element of mystery in the LotR. and if theyre cutting him out whats happening about a)old man willow, b)the barrow downs? Are they cutting those out to? if so as i believe was posted b4 how wil the hobbits get their swords? ps i see your point on rose lady eowyn Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a>

Elanor

03-19-2001, 12:02 PM

Re: Tom Personally I'm not keen on Tom Bombadil, with all the annoying singing and so on. I don't think I'll miss him too much in the film - I mean, there's so much else to show as well, that'll keep us watching. As for Arwen, I don't like the sound of the pumped up role, but I'm prepared to reserve judgement until the films are released. I think PJ had to increase the women's roles a bit, as a film with nearly all male roles, and nearly all screen time to the male actors would put off a lot of audiences, especially the ones who are not die-hard fans.

Elwen

03-19-2001, 12:34 PM

Re: Tom Elanor: I totally agree with you on the Arwen thing. We should wait until the movies come out before we decide. Personally, I'm kind of happy that they're expanding Arwen's role, at least a little bit. I've always kind of wished that she were a bit more than just a mostly behind the scenes character. Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000361>Elwen</A>  at: 3/19/01 1:36:41 pm

The Dagda

03-19-2001, 10:07 PM

Re: Tom Tom fulfills two vital roles in the story. First, he helps to give us a sense of mystery and a sense of the long past ages of Middle Earth, and early in the story. It is stated that he is eldest, older than the trees or elves or anyone else. He is unexplained, though it is strongly implied that he is powerful and important. His singing is far from annoying, and if that is one's reaction to the two chapters of the Fellowship Of The Ring in which he appears, then one is not reading very carefully. He is mostly incapable of communicating in a manner other than verse or song, but song is the oldest language in Tolkien's universe. In the novel, the singing is a device to imply Tom's ancientness and connectedness to the higher beings. In film, devices other than song might be used, such as an archaic speech pattern. Second, he provides the 4 hobbits with safety from the Nazgul who hunt them and would surely catch them if not for the "short cut" through The Old Forest, and he provides them with the Numenorian swords which play such an important part in the struggles against the very same Nazgul. Aragorn has no knowledge about the plight of the Hobbits, and has no way to know how many hobbits would be on the road. If he is to simply supply the four hobbits with their swords, how does he know how many to carry with him to Bree? Frodo and company are very green behind the ears and have little experience of travel and danger so for them to escape Old Man Willow and the Barrow Downs with no assistance will seem unbelievable, or make the dangers, including the Nazgul, seem less dangerous. Here Tom fills an important role and helps to advance the plot. My wish is that Tom Bombadil is in the film, with the Old Forest, Old Man Willow, and the Barrow Downs (not to mention babe-a-liscious Goldberry). My hope is that the film will retain The Old Forest and the Barrow Downs even if they delete Tom, so that the plot runs smoothly and the hobbits can gain their ancient Numenorian swords and their temporary escape from the Nazgul. My fear is that all these scenes will simply be deleted, and we will simply rush from Bag End to Bree in a matter of minutes, with no explaination of the swords (like the Bakshi film) or worse, a stupid plot device like Aragorn simply providing the weapons for the hobbits.

Elenanna

03-20-2001, 10:21 PM

Re: Tom Yes, i wish that could happen too, but i have reason to believe that arwen will be involved in this as well:"> , i'm not sure if it's true or not though. Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a>

Aldaron

03-20-2001, 11:08 PM

Re: Tom Bombadil Probably all of us are going to be disappointed with one part or another missing or not played right in the movie, according to our thoughts. I like the Tom Bombadil portion of the book immensely but I can see that it doesn't play a major role in moving the Ring along to its doom. We'd love to have everything in the film, every last bit of dialogue and action there is. But a film has a finite amount of time it can expect an audience to sit still, and it had better move along plotwise, or people will get up and walk out. So we'll have to be grateful for what we get and hope it is done well.

The Dagda

03-21-2001, 06:12 PM

Re: Tom (and Glorfindel) Well then why include Helm's Deep, or Fangorn Forest, or anything else beside Frodo's and Sam's journey into Mordor, if all we are concerned with is the movement of the Ring to its doom? At least the Ring is present in the Bombadil chapters and the Glorfindel chapter. I myself cannot see the point of deleting Glorfindel. How much time is saved by doing so? We'll all see for ourselves, but it appears we will fly from Bag End to Bree in a matter of minutes, with a few encounters with some of the Nazgul along the way, in order to make room for Arwen being at the Ford and wherever else she is written into. Whatever. The Lord Of The Rings may be filmed in New Zealand, but it is still a Hollywood movie, so why expect more from it?

Elenanna

03-24-2001, 11:32 PM

Re: Tom (and Glorfindel) You make good points Dagda! Anyways cutting Tom Bombadil does more than just entirely skip the Barrow Downs, the Old Forest and his house. In the Council of Elrond what are they going to do? You need to know about Tom to understand what they talk about, about how it doesn't affect him and why they won't give it to him. You have to meet him to understand that, and it will make a large rent in the fabric of Tolkiens' work if they just cut that out with no explanation. Tolkien would disappointed if he knew that Tom was being cut out. Not so much Glorfindel, although I agree with Dagda about there being no point to cut him out, but he isn't as important as Tom, who is quite vital to the plot, his roots are spread throughout the story. Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000112>Elenanna</A>  at: 3/25/01 12:37:35 am

Gilthalion

03-25-2001, 09:05 AM

Re: Tom (and Glorfindel) In the animated version, Glorfindel was replaced by Legolas. I have no real problem with Arwen replacing him. I will miss Bombadil, however. But Underhill is right. Bombadil can be cut, the story can be abridged, and the audience will not miss it or even be aware of the problems we raise. They can receive their Numenorean swords at Rivendell for example. Escaping the Barrow-wight is more problematic, and will probably be cut. (sigh) <center> <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">Barrow-Downs</a>~<a href="http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000">Bare Bones</a>~<a href="http://pub41.ezboard.com/btarostineruhir">Tar Ost-in-Eruhir</a>~<a href="http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000/gilthalion.html">Grand Adventures</a>~<a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/fanfichobbits.asp">The Hobbits</a>~<a href="http://www.tolkientrail.com">Tolkien Trail</a> </center>

The Barrow-Wight

03-25-2001, 09:19 AM

Re: Tom (and Glorfindel) That part of the book was a farce, anyways! Those little hobbits would never have gotten away from me! Ha! Me afraid of Bombadil. It is to laugh! The Barrow-Wight (RKittle) I usually haunt <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">The Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi">Middle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.

red

03-25-2001, 04:54 PM

Re: Tom (and Glorfindel) "Get out, you old Wight! Vanish in the sunlight!" And he did. -réd <blockquote>"He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer." -A Short Rest, The Hobbit</blockquote>

The Barrow-Wight

03-25-2001, 05:14 PM

Re: Tom (and Glorfindel) History is always written by the victor (I was on the losing side). But I left that barrow because Tom wrecked it, not because I was scared of him. But I was screaming mad. The Barrow-Wight (RKittle) I usually haunt <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">The Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi">Middle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.

Elenanna

03-25-2001, 08:18 PM

Re: Tom (and Glorfindel) Gilthalion:How did they fit Legolas in there? (I haven't seen the animated version) You didn't answer my question about the Council of Elrond, and if they keep the bit about Tom in the Council of Elrond then the audience will notice, and be confused. Any Tolkien fans that've read LotR will miss it. I don't mind Glorfindel being cut either, I just don't see the point. There is another point I want to bring up: In Gondor, when Denethor sees Pippins' sword, he sees that it's from Gondor and asks where Pippin got it from... I don't know the exact details as I'm recalling this from memory, but I hope you see my point. Why would there be swords from Gondolin in Rivendel? There's no point! They have elvish swords, what would be the point in keeping Gondolish swords when the kings put them in their barrows?!! RKittle: Tom only totally destroyed the barrow after the wight dissapeared. If you weren't afraid of him then why didn't you fight him off instead of fleeing right when he came? Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000112>Elenanna</A>  at: 3/25/01 9:23:19 pm

The Barrow-Wight

03-25-2001, 09:03 PM

Re: Tom (and Glorfindel) I was tired of that barrow. I'd been in it for what seemed like forever. I already had my new barrow set up, Bombadil just sped up the process. That still doesn't give him an excuse! I wasn't bothering him! The Barrow-Wight (RKittle) I usually haunt <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">The Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi">Middle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.

Elenanna

03-25-2001, 09:05 PM

Re: Tom (and Glorfindel) I thought you died in the sunlight, and shouldn't you have taken revenge on Tom for ruining your old barrow? And I thought you couldn't move from your barrow... your corpse was buried there Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a>

The Barrow-Wight

03-26-2001, 06:59 AM

Re: Tom (and Glorfindel) No... the corpse wasn't mine. It was the body of one of the royal line of Cardolan which my master destroyed. My lord commanded me to inhabit the barrow but, as was evidenced when I captured that Frodo fellow, I was able to leave the narrow at will. The Barrow-Wight (RKittle) I usually haunt <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">The Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi">Middle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.

Samwise of the shire

03-26-2001, 03:37 PM

Re:Well what if one of the hobbits came back for REVENGE?Ha Ha Ha Ha,I am Samwise of the Shire brave bold and wicked I slew that nasty spider I can take revenge-okay I need to calm down this is not a chat room this is a forum where serious things are talked over-But I gotta have fun some time and not be such a stiff ole idiot.As for fact like I said before TB is'nt importent,tolkien said so Himself so maybe thats why they took him out

Elenanna

03-26-2001, 07:45 PM

Re: Re:Well what if one of the hobbits came back When did Tolkien say he wasn't important? He is the element of mystery in Tolkiens' works, how is that not important?If they take Tom out why don't they take out, lets say, the Druedan, Ghan-Buri-Ghan? Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000112>Elenanna</A>  at: 3/26/01 8:46:26 pm

Mister Underhill

03-27-2001, 01:43 PM

Re: Re:Well what if one of the hobbits came back Tom can be neatly excised. They won't mention him at the Council of Elrond, naturally, since he will be skipped in the movie, hence no confusion for movie viewers, who, unless they've read the books, won't even know of old Tom's existence. In fact, you can count on the Council scene as a whole being considerably abridged and compressed in the movie. Filming it verbatim would take up half of the film's running time. You'll get the highlights, and some pertinent information may be shifted to other scenes (for instance, I hear tell there may be a "prologue" showing the Last Alliance, Sauron's defeat, Isildur's blunder, and some other history of the Ring, meaning that stuff can be taken out of the Council scene).

The X Phial

03-27-2001, 07:32 PM

Re: Re:Well what if one of the hobbits came back As much as I hate to see the work cut up in any way, I have to agree that for the purposes of a major Hollywood picture, Tolkien's mystery in the form of old Bombadillo is the most expendable character. Of course, I also think that cutting the Council Scene up will make for a lot of lost information, but I imagine the average watcher won't leave the theater saying..."Gee, I wish that council scene had been longer." And, in the end, we are catering to the least common denominator. -*-The X Phial-*- You must believe in free will, you have no choice. Isaac Singer

Elenanna

04-06-2001, 03:25 PM

Re: Re:Well what if one of the hobbits came back Well, can you tell me how the hobbits will get their swords and how Aragorn follows them to Bree? And if he doesn't follow them, the how does he know that he is mister Underhill? Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a>

the Lorien wanderer

04-08-2001, 11:32 PM

Re: Re:Well what if one of the hobbits came back Hmmmmm...for once I have to agree with Underhill. It is absolutely AWFUL that Tom Bombadil has to be taken out. But if someone has to be removed then Tom can be removed with minimum fuss and changes in the story. Plus, his presence isn't of vital importance to the main story, unlike say, Galadriel or Elrond. What if - what if this is as good as it gets?

Elenanna

04-09-2001, 07:53 AM

Re: Re:Well what if one of the hobbits came back Well, if you were to cut out everything that isn't absolutely vital to the story it would be a lot shorter and lacking the mystical essence of Tolkiens' work. (sorry, I'm getting a bit eccentric here aren't I?) Does anyone agree with me that Tom Bombadil should not be cut? What don't get is: WHY?!!! Why in blazes are they cutting him out, and replacing Glorfindel... with "superstrength" (or something like that according to the unreliable sources that I have) Arwen, can someone please show me the logic to these cuts (if there is any). Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a>

the Lorien wanderer

04-09-2001, 08:27 AM

Re: Re:Well what if one of the hobbits came back Sure Tom shouldn't be cut. However, I wonder what you expected when you heard that PJ was making the movie? It's invariable that he will deviate from the original storyline (for which you can't blame just him. That's Hollywood) to make it more comprehensible to people who haven't read LoTR and to make it more commercial as well. So the least 'important' (read vital) charcter has been eliminated-Tom Bombadil. What if - what if this is as good as it gets?

Elenanna

04-20-2001, 04:31 AM

Re: Re:Well what if one of the hobbits came back if you want to cut out unimportant charators you could cut out Farmor Maggot. Sure he gives the hobbits a lift to the river and the ferry, but then the trip thrrough the old forest prevents the hobbits from being caught on the road to bree Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a>

Heimdal

05-16-2001, 12:51 AM

Keep your fingers of moviemakers! The question of "ol´Tom" always appear when you try to make a movie out of a book. The Lord of the Rings is no exception... However in some cases it will be a good idea to cut in the material to get a more resonable lenght on the movie. But what I ALWAYS find irritating is when the moviemakers tends rewrite the bits an pieces of the story and change details that theres no need to. The story was written in an certain way so the moviemakers should keep their fingers off. There is no need for a "Hollywoodish" artistic touch. So if I find out when I see the movie that the story has been changed with the cost of for example ol´Tom and other "sidetracks". An Orc will seem like a kitten in comperance to me. Personally I think that a complicated story with many personalities in The Lord of the Rings would have been good for the movie. The books are "overcrowded" and hard to follow sometimes. But that is why they are so great. They give a fell of a real world, and above all a sence of a very old world. So, I think that another 5 minutes with Tom Bombadill and the old forrest would have been good for the movie. By the way started to read The Lord of the Rings again yesterday... Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000366>Heimdal</A> at: 5/16/01 2:58:03 am

arwentinuviel

05-22-2001, 10:28 PM

WHY SHOULD TOM BE CUT OUT? For starters tell me what is the point of cutting tom out? Though his is not a main part ,i feel his presence is vital and i agree with heimdal it 's really irritating when directors rewrite their own versions of masterpieces

GandaIf The White

05-23-2001, 05:40 PM

Re: WHY SHOULD TOM BE CUT OUT? I remember reading somewhere that he was cut out because the people who made the movie "wanted to focus more on the story of Frodo and the Ring." I dont remember where I read it, but I think it may be at the E! Site that has all the information about the movie. Search for 'The Hobbit' in the Yahoo Search Engine if you have no idea what Im talking about, and you will see E! Online: The Force of The Hobbit.

Aldaron

05-24-2001, 08:23 PM

Re: WHY SHOULD TOM BE CUT OUT? We just have to remember that we're talking about a two-hour movie. If there were no time constraints and we could have a 13-hour movie, then we could leave Tom in and everything else. Them's just the fact, m'am.

Heimdal

05-25-2001, 12:59 AM

Well you are correct Aldaron... But I think its like leaving Boba Fett out of the Star Wars movies. But Ill see the movies anyway, In knights armor.

Feanoor

05-28-2001, 06:43 PM

Re: WHY SHOULD TOM BE CUT OUT? I don't think the "hey come merry-doll, derry-doll" song would film very well.

Elenanna

06-04-2001, 03:19 AM

Cutting Ok, I can see the point in cutting some things, like the songs, maybe. For one thing they probably wouldn't pick a very good tune and ruin it completely. But taking out Tom Bombadil is insane. If you want to focus the story more on Frodo and the ring then thats ok, you can cut out more minor things. But cutting out Tom you can't do! There are threads which reappear in other parts of the story. e.g. In the Council of Elrond they talk about hiding it and giving it to Tom. There are more, I'm sure you will be able to think of a few, but all in all you are cutting out a lot more then however long it would take to just cut out Tom Bombadil. Another point, how will Strider >Aragorn< overhear the hobbits, how will they avoid the Ring Wraiths? What about the swords? In Gondor, when Pippin pledges his loyalty to Denethor, he (Denethor) realizes that it was made by them and it pleases him. How else will the hobbits be armed. All in all cutting out Tom Bombadil is a big mistake!

red

06-04-2001, 09:33 AM

That is only your opinion, Elenanna. I am as huge a Tolkien fan as any of you, but I don't think cutting out Tom is a big deal. I won't miss him at all. And, no, he is NOT vital for Peter Jackson's story, for that is, after all, what it is. Not Tolkien's. Tolkien's story exists in the books, period. The movie is all Peter's (with some influence from the money handlers, I'm sure!!!). It is an interpretation. Is there an echo in here?? lol!! But since some people just don't get it, I suppose it has to be repeated. -red <blockquote>"He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer." -A Short Rest, The Hobbit</blockquote>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000094>red</A> at: 6/4/01 11:36:09 am

GandaIf The White

06-04-2001, 02:44 PM

Well, whatever happens, they are not only taking out Tom, but changing the story in other ways in the same moment. I am guessing that Frodo will now think of some way to get Pippin and Merry out of Old Man Willow, if that scene happens at all. And, Im also guessing that Merry and Pippin will find there swords as they come by the cave of the Trolls. Tom will be left out of the discussion at The Council. And Gandalfs reason for leaving the Hobbits will simply be that he is not responsible for the Middle Earth any more, now that the Third Age is over. Yet, if they do get caught by the Wights, I think that it will be Frodos part in the Movie to save them somehow. I think they want Frodo to look courageous, because besides carrying the Ring, all he ever does is stab the Orc Cheiftan in Moria (Not much in the eyes of Movie Go'ers who have not read LOTR). I guess that is the way it has to be.. this movie is not here to please the people who are really into Tolkien, but to earn money. You have to be happy you are getting a Movie at all, though I can say that I would be happy if I only read the books my whole life. Tom seems like a minor character in the whole story. It was just a bad choice made by them of which scenes to cut to save time. "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."

red

06-04-2001, 02:58 PM

**sighs** <blockquote>"He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer." -A Short Rest, The Hobbit</blockquote>

GandaIf The White

06-05-2001, 05:55 PM

Red, you let everything bad in the Movie go right over your head like you dont even care that they are taking Tom out.. why? "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."

red

06-05-2001, 06:15 PM

GandaIf, as far as I can tell (and seeing as I am the movie news scout for the Downs, I can tell a lot about the movies), there is nothing 'bad' in the movies. As for the rest of your unwarranted concern, read my post in this thread from 6/4 again, as I already explained it there. You are right, I don't care that Tom is nixed! -réd <blockquote>"He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer." -A Short Rest, The Hobbit</blockquote>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000094>red</A> at: 6/5/01 8:17:16 pm

the Lorien wanderer

06-08-2001, 08:22 AM

She's a movie-supporter all the way Gandalf. All the PJ cheerers think the same way. You should see some of the posts in the Movie forum over at Tolkienonline. You'd think they've never read Tolkien, the way they talk. *sigh* Oh well, to each his own. Humour is emotional chaos remembered in moments of tranquility.

GandaIf The White

06-08-2001, 04:45 PM

I agree with you Lorien Wanderer. It seems like they would rather back a mistake than put down a Movie. But, who cares. I guess I love Tolkiens books more than they do. Take that, Red. "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."

red

06-08-2001, 05:04 PM

That post does nothing but show me just how ridiculous and ignorant you are. Period. -rêd, die-hard Tolkien fan AND movie-supporter <blockquote>"He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer." -A Short Rest, The Hobbit</blockquote>

The Barrow-Wight

06-08-2001, 06:22 PM

I don't know how ignorant it is, but réd is right that it is ridiculous. It is not logical to say or suggest that someone who loves the movies doesn't love the books. It is also not logical to expect a film to be able to include every detail from the novel it portrays. I doubt you'll find someone who is more of a 'book supporter' than réd (or myself). And she and I are both very excited by the prospect of a the films. We've read the books and apparently still have our imaginations intact. Others, it seems, are locked into concrete visions that constrict their ability to enjoy new things. And in case anyone is still having a problem with perspective: Its Just A Movie. (Or three, in this case). The Barrow-Wight (RKittle) I usually haunt <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">The Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi">Middle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.

GandaIf The White

06-08-2001, 07:55 PM

Geez. Im playing around with you Red. Cant you take a little of my easy-hearted insults once and a while? I dont really mean it. Will try not to be so sarcastic next time I am joking. I know everyone here loves Tolkiens work. Dont think less of me. Thats just my personality. I have a group of online freinds and we joke around with eachother like that all the time, so coming to a serious Forum like this is hard. "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000064>GandaIf The White</A> at: 6/8/01 10:05:05 pm

the Lorien wanderer

06-08-2001, 09:27 PM

Oh no no no. I didn't mean that movie supporters don't love the books. I mean it's pretty obvious Red's as much if not a more an LoTR fanatic than anyone on this board. Just that some of the posts there sounded like the people hadn't even read LoTR (which, now that I think about it, they probably hadn't). They didn't seem to know anything about Lorien or Elrond. All they talked about was Arwen and *sigh* her vital stats and how much they hoped she'd be exposed (This is a G board right? I won't get more specific). Humour is emotional chaos remembered in moments of tranquility.

GandaIf The White

06-11-2001, 12:16 AM

There is much arguement that Tom is not essential to the basic plot at all. That is the reason PJ took him out and that is the reason that people who dont care that he was taken out give. But dont you think he deserves some credit? He was the first living thing on the Middle Earth. He is the reason the hobbits didn't die. And he is the reason that the Lord of the Nazgul was killed and Eowyn was not. It seems he is as wise and strong as the Valar.. But I've only read the beginning pages of The Sillmarillion so I dont really know if that is true. "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."