Elrond the vampire [Archive] - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

lindil

01-22-2001, 09:38 AM

I hate to be always on the attack w/ these movies , but I get so much ammunition ! I bought an Entertainment Weekly , to check out tj epics [my c'puter does poorly w/ the movie sites graphics] and what is on the cover? a pointy -eared sword weilding arwen. but wait there is more.on p.38 we get some viscious looking orcs [look like they were modelled after evil relatives of the Iceman . [more pointy ears, seems PJ has not read HoME re: non-elvish origin} Gandalf looks positively wooden [and arthritic] at the council of elrond[?] the elves? in the background look pretty good [eventhough they seem to be modelled after Qui-Gon PJ is lounging by a hobbit hole door that gandalf would have to crawl through [seriously] and the finale- Elrond looking like he is about to bite Arwen's neck in some transylvanian castle -we also get to glims=pse the hitherto unknown elvish fondness for statuary that JRRT forgot to mention. All in all , I am afraid that while the ambiance of many scenes may be good , PJ is making a movie other than LotR At least though w/ digital technology , he can remove all the pointy Elf ears . lindil Lindil is often found on posting on the New Silmarillion Canon Forum at the Barrowdowns discussion board. 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.'

Orald

01-22-2001, 09:43 AM

You know, at first I thought pointy ears would be a good thing, I always thought of elves with pointed ears and without them it just oudln't be the same. But the ears look ridiculous I especially thought so on Legolas. I have therefore changed my opinion and believe that elves definately didn't have pointed ears(they look to stupid to have them)

Inziladun

01-22-2001, 10:28 AM

I increasingly fear that this will not be the LoTR we all know and love,changed beyond recognition in the remorseless pursuit of money. Maybe at least the pronunciations will be correct,and we won't hear "Sell-a born" and "Sirith Ungol". Manwë keep you under the One, and send fair wind to your sails.

The Barrow-Wight

01-22-2001, 12:15 PM

... which really wouldn't bother me because I still pronounce them Sell-eborn and Seer-ith no matter how many times I try to remember the right way. Old habits die hard. The Barrow-Wight (RKittle) I usually haunt <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">The Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi">Middle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.

Orald

01-22-2001, 03:52 PM

what about Kirdan, it just sounds silly as Sirdan.

The Barrow-Wight

01-22-2001, 04:02 PM

When I first read the books in High School I automatically made all the C's as S's where it seemed appropriate. The K sound seemed too gutteral for the Elven language. Even today I struggled with the K sound, and when I hear it pronounced (correctly) by others I must often process the information for a moment until I realize what word was actually said. The reading of the Lord of the Rings had many instances of this. Other examples of my attrocious M-E pronunciations are Eee-oh-mur and Dunn-uh-dane. Heck, I didn't even pronounce the professor's last name correctly until recently. And I really don't know if I've gotten it right yet. The Barrow-Wight (RKittle) I usually haunt <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">The Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi">Middle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.

Zoe

01-22-2001, 07:18 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Heck, I didn't even pronounce the professor's last name correctly until recently. And I really don't know if I've gotten it right yet.<hr></blockquote> How is it supposed to be pronounced? I say Tol-ken. My mum says Tol-keen. I've never known which was correct (or perhaps neither are). I too used to say sirith ungol, and it took me a while to stop that bad habit. <blockquote>Quote:<hr> The K sound seemed too gutteral for the Elven language.<hr></blockquote> With the Ks and the 'stronger' Rs, I think elven languages are fairly gutteral anyway. Presumably Icelandic and welsh are also a bit gutteral, although I wouldn't know for sure.

Orald

01-22-2001, 08:42 PM

how exactly would you go about pronouncing Eomer if it isn't Ee-oh-mer? I am fairly decent with sindarin accents, but not others like the Rohirrim and the Westron.

The Barrow-Wight

01-22-2001, 08:47 PM

They way I think its supposed to be is AY-oh-mare & TALL-keen The Barrow-Wight (RKittle) I usually haunt <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">The Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi">Middle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.

Zoe

01-22-2001, 10:04 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> AY-oh-mare & TALL-keen<hr></blockquote> Looks like mum was right then. Mothers always are... (I write tol, you write tall, but I think we're referring to the same sound, except tall is slightly more accurate as far as length goes.) Really, all these english approximations are annoying, though. AY as in 'pray'? Is the 'oh' long or short (if that makes any sense)? Mare to rhyme with bear? Throw in differing accents, and english gets terribly confusing. (I once read a book on linguistics which confused me because it used the A in 'father' as an example of one of the sounds, and then the A in the spanish 'casa' as another, and I'd always pronounced those two As the same way. But I digress.)

lindil

01-22-2001, 11:47 PM

pronunciations and pxievixens Other examples of my attrocious M-E pronunciations are Eee-oh-mur --ok and Dunn-uh-dane. what is your pronun. of dunedain? doon -ee-dain? I used the soft c for celeborn for years till I was scoffed at by one of my friends who had actully deigned to read the pronunciation tables somewhere...hey wait a minute this is a worthy discussion [best moved to the books?] , but what about Elrond theVampire and Arwen the pixievixen? Lindil Lindil is often found on posting on the New Silmarillion Canon Forum at the Barrowdowns discussion board. 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.'

the Lorien wanderer

01-23-2001, 01:31 AM

It's not sell-e-born? What is it then? Getting back to the topic-I was afraid of that. Arwen in the battle is silly enough. A pointy eared Arwen is worse. With Liv Tyler to top it off. Not all those who wander are lost.

lindil

01-23-2001, 03:16 AM

c = k keleborn lindil Lindil is often found on posting on the New Silmarillion Canon Forum at the Barrowdowns discussion board. 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.'

Zoe

01-23-2001, 05:39 AM

It's all in Appendix E, Pronunciation of Words and Names. The pronunciation notes are really quite interesting (and embarassing if you've always been pronouncing something wrongly). For example: AU = ow as in 'how'. (Sauron isn't pronounced Sore-on. If they don't pronounce it correctly in the movies, I shall mutter many nasty things about PJ.)

The Barrow-Wight

01-23-2001, 07:58 AM

Dang it! You've found another one I still do wrong. The Barrow-Wight (RKittle) I usually haunt <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">The Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi">Middle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.

coprophage7

01-23-2001, 09:19 AM

I have that issue of Entertainment Weekly as well. Yes, Elrond does resemble a vampire. I think it was the hair which did it for me.

Mister Underhill

01-23-2001, 09:56 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> AU = ow as in 'how'. (Sauron isn't pronounced Sore-on. <hr></blockquote>I am aware of this (correct) pronunciation but could never bring myself to adopt it -- I always feel like I'm doing my Jack Kennedy impression when I say it that way. Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000005>Mister Underhill</A> at: 1/23/01 10:56:40 am

HerenIstarion

01-23-2001, 12:48 PM

I was in a better position from a beginning seemingly, as I read LoTR in Russian translation - the translator obviously bothered himself reading appendices and made the transcriptions more or less corectly. Though I was emberresed to meet Smaug, not Smog - the Hobbit, which I've read before getting on LoTR (and which was translated decade earlier and by person not familiar with other works of JRRT) he was merely Smog, as well as Tolkien (Tall-Keen) was given as Tall-kee-an (there ar 4 or 5 russian translations, and one of them even gives Tolkien as Tall - kai - an, and another turned ents to onts, while Balrog is Barlog and so on )

But I were lucky to get one best to read at first

A story must be told or there'll be no story, yet it is the untold stories that are most moving

Gwaihir the Windlord

01-23-2001, 06:48 PM

It wasn't until three months ago that I began to prnounce Hoorin, Toona instead of Tyoona and Hyoorin, Doonedine instead of Dunadain. Gwiyhir instead of Gwayhir, Daa-in istead of Dane, Kelborn istead of Selborn. But hang it all, I can't say Kurdan, no matter how hard I try to implement into my brain. I suppose to do it properly one would have to read the notes on pronunciation first (although I think I've done rather well, really ) Gwaihir the Windlord <A href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">the barrow-downs</A> 'Sing now, ye people of the Tower of Anor, for the Realm of Sauron is ended for ever, and the Dark Tower is thrown down.'

Mithadan

01-23-2001, 07:43 PM

Isn't it Kairdan, more like Keerdan than Kurdan? --Mithadan-- "The Silmarils with living light were kindled clear, and waxing bright shone like stars that in the North above the reek of earth leap forth."

Orald

01-23-2001, 08:13 PM

I always pronounced it like Keerdan, with the accent on the Keer

Zoe

01-23-2001, 08:19 PM

Same here, Durelen. Isn't that the correct way? (I as in 'machine', non?)

the Lorien wanderer

01-24-2001, 07:20 AM

It's always been Gwyhir. But I'm always going to say Dunedain not Doonedine. That sounds...well...weird. And I think Sell-e-born is going to stick too. I knew I should've paid more attention to that bit in the appendix. Not all those who wander are lost.Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000038>the Lorien wanderer</A> at: 1/26/01 7:17:56 am

Orald

01-24-2001, 03:33 PM

Let's see what else do i screw up...I say Gway-here, I also say Doon-uh-dane. Lor-ee-en, Loo-thee-en with the th being the soft th as in thin. I have come to believe that I pronounce most thing wrong.

enep

01-25-2001, 08:00 PM

ARGH! What about Caradhras = Cara-thras? They're going to get that horribly wrong. That and, as pointed out, Sauron. Ugh. But I could never prounounce any of those. Carad-rass always sounded better. So did done-a-dane. So did Eeh-o-mer. As did Celeborn. But I always had Cirith Ungol, it sounded more evil with the harsh K sound. Maedhros I pronounced Mee-dros until a week ago. Meye-thros. ARGH! Yes, and Gway-here. - enep

Orald

01-25-2001, 08:41 PM

Crap, I forgot about Maedhros=May-Drose. And I actually pronounce the dh as th, weird that i don't in that situation. I heard they worked with Tolkien linguists to make sure everything was pronounced correctly, so I assume everything will be fine, it is just that none of us will quite agree because we never worked with Tolkien linguists before we read the books.

enep

01-25-2001, 09:10 PM

Heh heh... Yes, unfortunately I never had that chance. One less thing to criticise PJ on then, if the pronunciations ARE correct. - enep

Zoe

01-26-2001, 01:24 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> I heard they worked with Tolkien linguists<hr></blockquote> Tolkien Linguists? You mean that next time someone asks me what I want to do when I leave school I can tell them I want to be a Tolkien linguist? Cool! (As opposed to my standard response of: I want to do linguistics and history, and if that doesn't get me a job I'll learn Serbo-Croat and start a Mexican restaurant in Montenegro. Yes, well...)

the Lorien wanderer

01-26-2001, 05:43 AM

Re: Heh heh... What about Tolkien chefs? There's a school somewhere in Italy, I think, where they actually train you to make their version of the middle earth dishes. I don't know how good they are but I'd sure like to have their lembas sometime. Zoe:if you DO become a Tolkien linguist, you can open the restaurant anyway; just make it Middle-earth cuisine, not Mexican. Get a couple of chaps flown in from Italy and make your announcements sprinked with lots of Tolkien words. You'll have a winner. Not all those who wander are lost.

Zoe

01-26-2001, 07:11 AM

Re: Heh heh... Yes, I shall become a zillionaire and take over the world, and use my new-found power to insist that everyone study Middle Earth History in school and pronounce all the names correctly.

Orald

01-26-2001, 09:21 AM

Re: Heh heh... I can just visualize it. Tolkien fans from al over the world will flock to it so they can dine on ME cuizine, and discuss the books.

the Lorien wanderer

01-27-2001, 12:32 AM

Re: Heh heh... Sounds awesome. Go for it Zoe. We'll be your best customers. Provided there are plenty of heated discussions about who Tom Bombadil was and whether elves have poointy ears. Not all those who wander are lost.

Zoe

01-27-2001, 02:11 AM

Re: Heh heh... Still, if I wanted a world famous Tolkien restaurant, I'd have to do it somewhere a bit less obscure than Montenegro...

enep

01-27-2001, 02:46 AM

Bingo! I've got an idea. How about you dump a whole lot of dirt in the ocean on top of Hawaii, call it the Island of Numenoré and build your restaurant there along with an international airport and a lot of development land? Then you'd be . All that, only to be destroyed by the wrath of the Americans of the Western World who were annoyed because you destroyed their favourite tourist spot Of course, you could always build it down here in Sydney... - enep

the Lorien wanderer

01-27-2001, 06:02 AM

Oh, you're both Australian? Not all those who wander are lost.

Zoe

01-27-2001, 09:10 PM

Sydney... yes, that could be a good idea. Although England would be the 'logical' ME place, what with Tolkien having lived there nearly all his life.

enep

01-27-2001, 09:29 PM

Yes, I live in Sydney. Wonderful place for a ME restaurant... - enep

Zoe

01-27-2001, 09:45 PM

Well I live in Perth. It would be a good place of a ME restaurant, except being so isolated, most non-Australians don't quite know where it is.

enep

01-27-2001, 10:04 PM

Tourists True. If it weren't for tourist brochures I doubt that anyone would know that there was a Western Australia, let alone Perth. Tourists. - enep

the Lorien wanderer

01-28-2001, 12:44 AM

Re: Tourists Hey, Australia's really out of the way. Make it kind of in the centre of all the main continents. London sounds good. Or maybe in the centre of the earth. Coz it's middle earth cuisine. Middle of the earth and middle earth food. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!! I'm going mad. Forgive the awful, awful joke. Not all those who wander are lost.

enep

01-28-2001, 12:55 AM

Bad Joke? I'm ROFL here! You are forgiven, oh fell servant of Laughgoth, Evil Master of Bad Jokes. Come and repent with us in Tirion and have an elvish Doughnut! - enep

the Lorien wanderer

01-28-2001, 02:18 AM

At last ! Ah, at last I have the pleasure of meeting one of the members of the fabled Appreciation of Evil Jokes tribe. It would be an honour, Humorous Citizen, to have an Elvish doughnut with you. Zoe, get going with that restaurant so I can have a chat with the first person on earth (middle and surface. Sorry. ) to laugh at my evil jokes. Not all those who wander are lost.

enep

01-28-2001, 03:38 AM

At last Indeed! I'm still laughing! Yes, and after Zoe finishes building that Restaurant and we have a doughnut perhaps we can play chess with Morgoth! Excellent! He always did like my Bad Jokes... - enep

the Lorien wanderer

01-28-2001, 08:20 AM

Chess and onwards... Chess with Morgoth and then perhaps we could proceed to play a good game of........MONOPOLY!!! With Strider and Arwen, perhaps. Maybe they'd deign to laugh at our evil jokes. Hehehehehe..... Not all those who wander are lost.

enep

01-28-2001, 03:51 PM

Onwards and Upwards! Maybe they would, maybe they would. How about Gothmog Backgammon? Singing with Saeros? The possibilities are endless... - enep

Zoe

01-28-2001, 06:45 PM

I'm scared by how funny I'm finding this... How about Scrabble? The only game where a miserable little letter U (or lack thereof) can stop you from winning, and instead make you lose miserably. (I'm still bitter from my last Scrabble defeat. Considering how badly I play, though, I tend to get beaten quite a lot.)

Orald

01-28-2001, 07:10 PM

You could turn it into a Hard Rock Cafe style restaurant. Have ME memorabilia, and you could name the non-ME food(I would think that you would have to have some) after the coolest people.

Gwaihir the Windlord

01-28-2001, 07:33 PM

Better still, the White Tree standing in the middle of the place! Some silver paint will do. The weirdos dressed up as Dwarves, Elves, Rangers, sitting down to a nice meal in the Prancing Pony (that can be your title) and girt with cloaks and swords! The occasional Black Rider passing through and stirring up the guests! Gwaihir the Windlord <A href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">the barrow-downs</A> 'Sing now, ye people of the Tower of Anor, for the Realm of Sauron is ended for ever, and the Dark Tower is thrown down.'

enep

01-28-2001, 08:05 PM

Daeros Do not fear humour, O Zoe! Instead, worship Laughgoth and laugh at all the Evil Jokes we make! Oh, and an idea for the restaurant: You must have a man dressed in the likeness of Daeros singing very loudly. I have foreseen it. - enep

Orald

01-28-2001, 09:27 PM

Combination Daeron & Saeros? Prancing Pony, hmm, I would rather see a Green Dragon.

enep

01-28-2001, 09:35 PM

Even better Hmm...this gets better by the minute. - enep

Gwaihir the Windlord

01-29-2001, 02:32 AM

Hmm, but Green Dragon and Prancing Pony are both good ol' English taverns, full of beer, bars, smoke and laughter; but we're doing a restaurant, are we not? I s'pose we could still call it that though; Green Dragon, yes. I can just imagine it: a huge success. Rolling in money, enticing the same people back again and again -- or else a huge failure, looked upon as the work of a bunch of eccentric 'try-hards'. Gwaihir the Windlord <A href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">the barrow-downs</A> 'Sing now, ye people of the Tower of Anor, for the Realm of Sauron is ended for ever, and the Dark Tower is thrown down.'

the Lorien wanderer

01-29-2001, 03:44 AM

Re: Even better enep: not only am I now ROFL but I have this craving for elvish doughnuts and a good game of Gothmog Backgammon. The Green Dragon? Hmmm....will do I suppose. Though I was thinking more along the lines of 'Journey to the Centre of the Earth'. Laugh now, o' lone appreciator of Evil Jokes. And if it tickles your funny bone too, dear Zoe, hen you are qualified to become a member of the Horrible Jokes Society. Not all those who wander are lost.

enep

01-29-2001, 03:47 AM

Business Yes, but to be true 'try-hard' Middle-Earth entrepreneurs we would have to set up a completely purposeless website, only to lose us millions and end up floating in the proverbial dot com deadpool; But Green Dragon is fine. Red Dragon would work better in the ad campaigns though, we could use the Howe interpretation of Smaug as our mascot. Golden Perch - Glaurung. Or perhaps a bird...Gwaihir by anychance? - enep

the Lorien wanderer

01-29-2001, 03:51 AM

seconds later... You posted seconds after me. Did you even read my senseless post enep? Not all those who wander are lost.

KayQy

01-29-2001, 02:11 PM

Laughing since the Tolkien Linguist! <blockquote>Quote:<hr> "Better still, the White Tree standing in the middle of the place! Some silver paint will do. The weirdos dressed up as Dwarves, Elves, Rangers... and girt with cloaks and swords! The occasional Black Rider passing through and stirring up the guests!"<hr></blockquote> Silver paint! Of course I know that when y'all get this going you'll do it properly, you would never be so hypocritical as to get something wrong about ME!!!

enep

01-29-2001, 03:22 PM

Sorry! Apologies, Lorien Wanderer! Your post I did not see, indeed, or I would have commented on how much I wanted to play Morgoth Chess and eat an Elvish Creme Puff; ( ) but alas! I did not reload the page and stupid, condemned-to-hell EzBoard did not show that there was another post! Sorry again. I have read it now, several times infact. PS Journey to the Centre of Earth! MWA HA HA! Pure EVIL! - enepEdited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000041>enep</A> at: 1/29/01 4:24:57 pm

Gwaihir the Windlord

01-30-2001, 01:15 AM

Website, enep? Who said anything about that? I was looking forward to a real, physical restaurant. In which case we could still be percieved as try-hards. Ho-hum. Gwaihir the Windlord <A href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">the barrow-downs</A> 'Sing now, ye people of the Tower of Anor, for the Realm of Sauron is ended for ever, and the Dark Tower is thrown down.'

enep

01-30-2001, 01:33 AM

True Yes, we would have a whole franchise of Restaurants, but all try-hards need a web site, purposeless that it may be. - enep

Gwaihir the Windlord

01-30-2001, 03:18 AM

Ah. In that case I shall take my leave of this thread. Gwaihir the Windlord <A href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">the barrow-downs</A> 'Sing now, ye people of the Tower of Anor, for the Realm of Sauron is ended for ever, and the Dark Tower is thrown down.'

Zoe

01-30-2001, 05:25 AM

Ah, but to have a truly try-hard website, you need to advertise it on billboards, backs of taxis, etc, but have a URL that no-one can remember, thus making your offline advertising useless. As for the John Howe interpretation of Smaug, I've never seen it, but one of JRRT's pictures would do nicely. Or we could use the monogram, as countless book-spine-designs have done. (Why the JRRT written in a fancy way is at all interesting, I don't know, but it always seems to be on the spine of books like the Hobbit and the LotR.)

the Lorien wanderer

01-30-2001, 08:27 AM

Don't tell me Gwaihir was offended too. Did he just up and leave or what? Oh did you like that one too kindred spirit? Hehehehehehe *cackling with evil laughter* Not all those who wander are lost.

enep

01-30-2001, 05:04 PM

Advertising Zoe: On the cover of an old Hobbit, it is shown. Anyway, Smaug is depicted on a giant mound of gold, looks like a snake with wings and an oversized head. As for you marketing ideas: Wonderful. TLW: Gwaihir did not want to lose millions on a pointless website - enep

Orald

01-30-2001, 07:03 PM

I liked the way the Smaug looked in the movie The Hobbit.

enep

01-30-2001, 07:09 PM

Animated Hobbit I haven't seen the animated Hobbit, or Bakshi's LotR for that matter. I would like to though, no matter how terrible they are - enep

Orald

01-30-2001, 09:58 PM

The animated Hobbit is actually pretty good, see The Books there is a thread about 3 pages back on it.

the Lorien wanderer

01-30-2001, 10:02 PM

Smaug. Yes, I have that depiction of Smaug on the cover of my Hobbit. But it's just 2 years old. *looks puzzled* enep: oh, I see. That explains it. I thought he just went off, offended by something I was too blind to read. Not all those who wander are lost.

enep

01-30-2001, 10:07 PM

Hobbit Thanks Durelan. I must try and rent that...TLW: That Hobbit that had Smaug on the front is an older edition; I don't have it myself but my copy does have that particular picture on a separate page near to the end. - enep

Zoe

01-30-2001, 11:51 PM

My copy of the Hobbit (from who-knows-how-long-ago - it's an ex-school copy. No, I didn't steal it.) has the Tolkien picture of Smaug on it.

enep

01-31-2001, 12:16 AM

Hehe We all know you took it Zoe. Just confess. You're a wanted criminal When I first read the Hobbit it was an old, borrowed copy that had that picture on it. Thereupon I based my envisionment of Smaug on that picture. I always though that Tolkien's dragons were more snakelike; considering that Glaurung did not have wings and is spoken of somewhere (I think in the Narn i Hin Hurin in UT) as reptilian, with squat legs or somesuch comment. There you go, we have a mascot. Now on with the website (which * has* to have a very cheesy Flash intro, and lots of little animations and cute buttons that crash your browser when you open the page. - enepEdited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000041>enep</A> at: 1/31/01 1:19:20 am

the Lorien wanderer

01-31-2001, 04:14 AM

Hey, how did you guys get started on Tolkien? I hadn't the faintest idea of what a hobbit was till I was 11, and then my cousin gifted me The Hobbit and LoTR for my birthday. And I was hooked! Zoe: you must have dancing hobbits (that will look like the seven dwarves in Snow White to everyone else but what the hell, we know they're hobbits) that sing a local Shire song. Hehehehe.... I can't wait. Not all those who wander are lost.

Zoe

01-31-2001, 05:17 AM

Enep: I didn't steal it. I got it from my next-door-neighbours whose (now grown-up) daughter had it. Maybe she stole it. LW: I got into Tolkien because I was bored one night, and I needed something to read, and Mum suggested the Lord of the Rings. I eventually finished it, but most of it I didn't get at all. I was only 9 at the time, so such a long book was a bit much for me. I later read 'Leaf by Niggle' and thought it was a good story. Finally, when I was 11 or 12, I re-read the LotR, and really liked it. Everything sort of flowed on from there.

Orald

01-31-2001, 08:37 AM

The Hobbit the movie used to be on television a lot. I used to watch it all the time, then around 10 or maybe even 12 or 13(whenever my brother was a in 11th grade) I read The Hobbit and then LotR. I was hooked after that.

amyrlis

01-31-2001, 08:40 AM

LW: Just wanted to add my two cents on how I got hooked on Tolkien. It wasn't until I was a freshman in high school and my twin sister was in the play The Hobbit (she was Oin!). She got hooked and started reading the books and was always talking about them. So, I decided to give them a try. I was an instant fan and began delving for all things Tolkien (ah, if only the internet existed 15 years ago - 15 years! dang I'm old!) I honestly can't remember if I've ever read The Hobbit front to back, but I've read LotR a few times (and just finished it again last month) and the Sil at least twice. Just starting to read UT for the first time now. I had to let go of Tolkien while in college, engineering school doesn't allow much time for leisure reading. Not to mention that my sister scoffed up all our Tolkien books when we left home. But now I'm back on the bandwagon! And I'm very glad to find a forum dedicated to this stuff. Honestly, my sister is the only other fan I know in 'real life'. Tolkien-geeks are hard to come by here in the wild west (Colorado, USA). -amyrlis

enep

01-31-2001, 11:00 PM

I got started only two years ago, when I read the hobbit. I tried to read LotR but only got to Tom Bombadil; tried again and got to Bombadil. Then I read it; and since then I have re-read it...then when I got the Sil it wove its web in my life A likely excuse Zoe; but I shall not report you to the authorities, after all - enep

the Lorien wanderer

02-01-2001, 08:47 AM

You stopped at Bombadil? At least you got that far. The first time I read it I didn't get past the first chapter. But then, I was 11. Zoe: I hope enep keeps his (her?) word else you may find the library authorities at your doorstep, demanding an explanation. Not all those who wander are lost.

KayQy

02-01-2001, 12:19 PM

amyrlis: Tolkien-geeks are hard to find all over the world, not just in the west. My roommate from Honduras had barely heard of the Hobbit, and another friend got Lord of the Rings confused with Lord of the Flies! P.S. I admire your will to put pleasure aside when work is to be done. I should be writing a paper, and what am I doing? The days are fated to be filled with marvels.

amyrlis

02-01-2001, 12:53 PM

Re: Elrond the vampire Ah, but we are a grand host here at the Downs - 200+ strong! I realize that in my previous post I didn't really say WHY I got hooked on these books. I think it's because I'm like Samwise in that I'm just fascinated by elves! Being a product of American 80's culture, I've always had a thing for unicorns, gnomes, and the like. But elves have always been special. Of course, when I was first exposed to The Hobbit, I was under the impression that elves were green, funny-looking people, similair to how they are depicted in the cartoon Hobbit. But, I was so much more intrigued by them when I learned their true guise. Then, when I read the Sil, I was just blown away by Tolkien's version of the creation of Earth and I love the Valar. Mythology has always intrigued me. In another post on this forum, it's been asked of us if we have used Tolkien quotes in real world situations. I can't say I've ever done that, but I do think of Manwe when the wind blows, and have unintentionally called the constellation Orion, Orome. Also, not having fireflies in our climate, when I have visited a place that does, I feel like I'm in Rivendell. I'm not sure of any other books I've read which have had this kind of affect on me. -amyrlis

Zoe

02-01-2001, 11:38 PM

Re: Elrond the vampire LW: I keep telling you... I didn't steal my copy of the Hobbit! Really! Don't you guys trust me?...

enep

02-01-2001, 11:47 PM

Heheh Merely but a joke; do not fear, for we believe you. Sorta. - enep

Orald

02-02-2001, 12:11 AM

Re: Heheh No I don't. Although "You have good manners for a liar and a thief" -Smaug

Zoe

02-02-2001, 01:16 AM

Re: Heheh :Grabs Bible: Look, if you don't believe me, I'll swear on it! :Grabs copy of LotR, for those who would value that oath more:

the Lorien wanderer

02-02-2001, 03:29 AM

NOW we have to believe you. Okay people. She's sworn on the LoTR. We know now that you speak the truth o' Zoe. Though I'm not so sure I would have believed you if you had sworn only on the Bible. Not all those who wander are lost.

the Lorien wanderer

02-02-2001, 03:42 AM

Time difference !!!! 4:29 AM!!!!! No wonder I never figured the time difference b/w the posts here and the American posts. I never noticed the AM/PM bit all these days. Oh and THAT is why we're practically always a day ahead. Coz America is almost 12 hours behind us. Lord, I get more absentminded by the day. Not all those who wander are lost.

enep

02-02-2001, 04:33 AM

No wonder... Yes, TLW. That's why I miss so much during the day and when I come on at night there's no-one in chat. Strange that - enep

the Lorien wanderer

02-02-2001, 07:21 AM

Yeah, you know I've never chatted on Barrowdowns! Because I never have company. By the way, I LOVE the way my lovely nick has gone from 'the Lorien wanderer' to 'wanderer' and now finally to TLW. Not all those who wander are lost.

Orald

02-02-2001, 09:11 AM

At least they are just shortening it and not changing it. Mine is Durelan, Durelin, etc. Not big changes, yet...

Mister Underhill

02-02-2001, 09:26 AM

Don't worry, Durling, we'll keep your name intact!

Orald

02-02-2001, 12:47 PM

thanx MU.

Mister Underhill

02-02-2001, 01:33 PM

yw.

Orald

02-02-2001, 02:16 PM

From now on, i am going to abreviate everything. It is easier and more efficient that way, so if you don't known understands what I am talking about you will all know what I feel like some times.

enep

02-02-2001, 04:35 PM

u rite man i now what u mean d'lin. abbrev. evrythin is way esr thn writing evrythin, u know? or do1ng th15. t4at5 wh@7 1 re@11y h@te. The Lorien Wanderer: that's why my nick is only 4 letters. You can't shorten it. - enep

burrahobbit

02-02-2001, 04:55 PM

I could call you e. What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

Orald

02-02-2001, 04:57 PM

a just call me D.

enep

02-02-2001, 05:10 PM

Hmm burrahobbit: I can call you b. And you CAN call me e. But in that case it's impossible to have a nick name that can't be shortened. Unless it's one letter. Oh well. - enep

Orald

02-02-2001, 06:02 PM

You could refer to that person as. Being thart there is no character.

enep

02-02-2001, 06:29 PM

Not a bad idea . That would be confusing though,. Anyway, I think we should stick with one letter,. - enep

Orald

02-02-2001, 08:51 PM

But I kinda like it,. Ok, maybe just think of a name as a "meaningful pause". where you just pause in silence, instead of not refering to someone at all.

the Lorien wanderer

02-02-2001, 09:09 PM

Interesting idea Very interesting idea *meaningful pause*. And one of your above posts was magnificently incoherent e. HA! That looks so funny. Nice to see you're back b. And where's Z? I like this! Not all those who wander are lost.

Zoe

02-02-2001, 09:20 PM

Is the Lorien Wanderer LW, L, or W? LW is two letters. L would get confused with Lindil, and W would get confused with the Wight. Hmmm.

enep

02-02-2001, 09:25 PM

D, Z, B and TLW! *meaningful pause for TLW* should be ok. Yes, I was babbling on incoherently for a while, imitating all the losers on ICQ. Not everyone on ICQ, but you know what I mean. The people that think they're cool so t@1k l!k3 th!5. - enep

Zoe

02-02-2001, 09:33 PM

TWL: You're a meaningful person! (Okay, so you're actually a meaningful pause...)

enep

02-02-2001, 09:52 PM

Hmm TWL? The Wandering Lorien? How about TMP! The Meaningful Pause! - enep

Zoe

02-02-2001, 10:14 PM

Typo, sorry. To quote the school yearbook for my school last year: "Sorry if we made two menny tippos."

enep

02-02-2001, 10:28 PM

Hmm MWA HA HA! That's strangely funny. Two menny tippos. - enep

the Lorien wanderer

02-03-2001, 08:54 AM

So am I TLW or a meaningful pause or a meaningful person or a meaningful pause for TLW or the Wandering Lorien? Got any of that? I think my written words are even more incoherent than when I speak, which is unintelligible enough at times. So anyway, I advise you to stick with TLW. And I'll stick with Z and e, my philosophical friends. Not all those who wander are lost.

Orald

02-03-2001, 02:00 PM

Sorry , I am not going to call you that. You will always be known as to me.

enep

02-03-2001, 03:53 PM

Hmm but that could arouse confusion,. Very well, fellow philosopher - TLW, Z and e it shall be! This thread has gone all over the place. 100 odd posts and we're talking about abbreviating names? PS this is my 200th post. 50 more for my Shade-ee-ness! - enepEdited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000041>enep</A> at: 2/3/01 4:55:13 pm

Orald

02-03-2001, 04:53 PM

Congrats, e! maybe after you reach 500 you can start over again with a name that has meaning behind it.

Zoe

02-03-2001, 08:52 PM

Yes, congratulations! You are certainly talkative, e.

the Lorien wanderer

02-03-2001, 10:09 PM

yeah, e certainly is very typitive. (yes, yes groan away) I'm as? I'll never know when you're talking to me. But you're going to be HR for me Durelen. Not all those who wander are lost.

enep

02-04-2001, 12:47 AM

Typitive...what next Typitive. Tsk, tsk. . I'm SURE that one's not in the dictionary I think D meant "you will always be known as (meaningful pause for TLW) to me." Just to avoid confusion, I think we should stick to first letters. - enep

the Lorien wanderer

02-04-2001, 12:55 AM

Sure enough. I'm pretty sure that's not in the dictionary. No matter, I'll make sure it gets added. Not that it has anything to do with the topic, but did you know prepone isn't in the dictionary either? I got that e. What I meant was, so I'm known as *meaningful pause for TLW*. I guess I forgot the 'known' huh? I quite agree with the initials suggestion. But I don't mind being addressed as by HR. Not all those who wander are lost.

Orald

02-04-2001, 02:26 AM

why HR, id on't understand, . And you would have to see me in person to understadn the whole concept on meaningful pauses. So i guess i will refer to you as TLW.

the Lorien wanderer

02-04-2001, 06:25 AM

HR for.... HR for Howard Roark. And you won't get it till you read the book. Yeah, I think i like TLW better. Not all those who wander are lost.

Orald

02-04-2001, 11:49 AM

How am I going to read the book when I have no cloe what it is about, or where I an get it?

the Lorien wanderer

02-04-2001, 08:30 PM

I told you. I told you sometime earlier. The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand. And you'll get it at any.....waitaminute. Where do you live D? Not all those who wander are lost.

Orald

02-05-2001, 08:23 AM

West Virginia, in the US. Why do you ask?

the Lorien wanderer

02-05-2001, 08:49 AM

Oh.. Because if you lived somewhere way out like Zambia or something, I wouldn't be able to say "Just go to any good bookshop and ask for it.". God knows if they've evn heard of Ayn Rand. You'll get it anywhere in the US man.

KayQy

02-06-2001, 02:03 PM

The whole meaningful pause thing reminds me of the artist formerly known as Prince who didn't want to be known as "the artist formerly known as Prince." Did anyone else get that feeling? Q: why is abbreviation such a long word? And when was the last post that was actually about LOTR? Not that I mind, I love going off on tanget after tangent. The days are fated to be filled with marvels.

enep

02-07-2001, 01:47 AM

Heh heh The last post to do with Elrond being a vampire was about the tenth. Then something struck, and the conversation somehow manipulated itself into abbev. of names. Search me - enep

The Dagda

02-11-2001, 09:11 PM

Having studied Irish for two years, I find that I am more or less pronouncing words correctly on my re-reading of LOTR. There is a fair amount of Celtic (Keltik) influence on Tolkien's invented languages, as is widely known.

Orald

02-11-2001, 10:39 PM

Gaelic you mean? I think Tolkien based the black language on it. If I recall he hated it and thought it uncooth. But you are probably right about being able to pronounce words better. "It seems fate is not without a sense of irony."

Zoe

02-12-2001, 12:55 AM

Durelen: Sindarin was based on Welsh, I'm pretty sure.

The Dagda

02-12-2001, 01:31 AM

Welsh and Irish are both Celtic languages and are quite similar, in terms of grammar and syntax. I understand that Prof. Tolkien said that he disliked "Gaelic", but I cannot see how he found it harsh and uncouth. The fricitive consonants are softer than in, say, German, and the eclipses soften the sound even further. In comparison to Irish, many Irish speakers find English to be rather brash and lacking in subtlety. I recognise little Irish in the Black Speech, but more in Elvish. This of course could be by way of the Welsh influence on Tolkien. I also understand that Finnish may be an even greater influence on the Elvish. Nuair a bhí mé óg, bhí mé i mo chonaí i dTír na nÓg. Caithain aois níos mó a bheidh agam, agus fuair mé bás, beidh mé ansin arís, tá súil agam.

Zoe

02-12-2001, 02:11 AM

Maybe instead of Gael, he was talking about Gaul. Didn't the Prof. not like French much?

Orald

02-12-2001, 06:22 AM

That also is true. I don't think it is Gual that I am thinking of. But I still persist that Tolkien used Finnish and Welsh for the basis of his Elvish languages. And I am almost positive about the Gaelic, I remember reading it somewhere, maybe I will have to go back through and try to find where I read it. Tir na Nog, that used to be a TV show in the US. "It seems fate is not without a sense of irony."

Inziladun

02-12-2001, 08:05 AM

Letters talks about this: Letter 144: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> "Actually(Quenya)might be said to be composed on a Latin basis with two other(main)ingredients that happen to give me 'phonoaesthetic' pleasure:Finnish and Greek."<hr></blockquote> Same letter: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> "The living language of the Western Elves(Sindarin or Grey-elven)is the one usually met,especially in names.This is derived from an origin common to it and Quenya;but the changes have been deliberately devised to give it a linguistic character very like(though not identical with)British-Welsh."<hr></blockquote> The Gaelic reference must be in there somewhere... Those who will defend authority against rebellion must not themselves rebel.

The Dagda

02-12-2001, 12:55 PM

Tír na nÓg (Tír = country, Óg = young) is the "Land of Youth" in Irish. This refers to a mythical place where the Sidhe reside, and where death, disease and aging are not present. It is described as being beyond the confines of our world. There is the story of the man Oisín who was a member of the famed Fianna warriors, who was allowed to reside in Tír na nÓg, where he remained the same while centuries passed in the world at large. c = k reminds me of the old saying, "mind your P's and Q's". This may refer to the time when the Brythonic and Goidelic (Gaelic) split into their respective branches from the Old Celtic language, and where the British (now Welsh) changed the Q (hard K sound) to the P sound, i.e. "mac", son in Irish, becomes "map", son in Welsh. (Incidently, "welsh" means foreigner or outsider in Anglo-Saxon, and Wales in the Welsh tounge is called Cymru). Do we see the same sort of developmental story with the Elvish languages? I'm supposing that the whole story of the Indo-European language group had more of an influence on Tolkien's languages of Middle Earth than any single language, though he obviously drew more from some than from others. Hmm, this is quite a digression from "Elrond the Vampire"...

Orald

02-12-2001, 01:03 PM

Oh, it is the actual Galeic name for those lands. I know a bit about Finn and Oisin, and some other Irish Mythology/Legends, but not in Gaelic. It seems fate is not without a sense of irony.

lindil

10-14-2002, 11:50 AM

Well how about it did Elrond look like a vampire?and confess your mispronunciationsand let us kow how to abbreviate your name and...well for my only movie post I scored a record 4 pages. If only my 'serious' posts got as much attention [ October 14, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]

Diamond18

10-14-2002, 02:37 PM

No, I do not think Elrond looked anything like a vampire, and I did not think Arwen was a pixievixen and I do not think that the movie was some awful terrible travisty (my word, those posts in January 2001 sure were pessimistic, weren't they?)I pronounced Celeborn "Seleborn" the first time I read the book, but then I read the pronounciation guide and have no trouble now. In fact, when my mother read the book, I *made* her read it out loud to me (this was because she could not stay awake while reading it to herself. I would catch her sitting over it sleeping...tsk tsk tsk). Anyway, I sat there correcting her every time she misprounounced something. And the only way you can abbreviate my name without incurring my wrath is to leave off the 18 and just call me Diamond.