Looking Ahead to RotK [Archive] - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Diamond18

12-19-2002, 06:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> After this low point in book to movie relations <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree that this was a low point for PJ so far (and I hope it remains to low point for RotK's sake!) I wouldn't call it a low point in book to movie relations on the whole. I mean, compared to adaptations of other books that I have seen. I have watched book to movie travesties that made me want to retch or pull out my hair. I'm thinking of "Mrs. Mike" as I type this. A very good book based on true events that was turned into the most idiotic, sickening and cloying example of everthing that is wrong with 1940's movies. So I've done a good deal of ranting about the mistakes in TTT, but when it comes right down to it, I've seen worse. Oh so much, much worse.I want to see Pippin steal the Palantír, not just pick it up at Isengard and glance in right away. I want to be scared to death by Minas Morgul. I want Pippin to slay a troll all by himself, and I want the Éowyn/Merry/Witch-king scene to be exactly like the book. But more than anything I want Faramir to grow back into the book character. I want people to really feel sorry for Faramir when Denethor treats him like dirt and I want to be able to cheer when Éowyn and Faramir fall in love. In short, I want Faramr back the way he was.I'm not worried about Shelob. That's PJ's element and he'll give that everything.

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie

12-19-2002, 07:17 PM

Well, I don't know. It can go two ways, up or down. PJ really needs to come through on this one, since he screwed up on TTT. If it goes down I will be deeply dissapointed and have many other negative feelings as well. PJ said that he wanted to make each movie better than the next. Well, TTT is nowhere near better than FotR. It isn't even as good. If this is PJ's idea of 'better', then I'm really worried about RotK. I just hope PJ can learn from his mistakes when putting together RotK. The only problem is that all the filming is done, so if they have already filmed it in a way similar to TTT, where the plot is deranged and retarded, then that's it we're stuck with it. If that happens, then the only way to change it would be to get everyone together and refilm, which I highly doubt would happen. I feel as if this movie is the frankenstien of the book.So all in all, RotK, for me, already isn't looking too good.

Kalimac

12-19-2002, 07:35 PM

I think it'll get better; first of all there's the all-important quote from PJ that TTT diverged the most from the books, and God knows that was true enough. ROTK should be an easier job in a few ways, because you're getting the characters all back together, not just tracking them through three or four separate storylines. Faramir will need some work, but considering how much buildup they gave to Aragorn and Arwen, I imagine he'll get a pretty deep makeover very quickly. The scene with Denethor might be the one that turns the audience to his side, and makes them ready to accept that he and Eowyn go together. (Somebody pointed out in another thread that we might still see the "not if I found it in the highway would I take it" bit - just when he's talking to Denethor). Thus will Faramir son of Denethor be redeemed.I want to see Pippin steal the Palantir too; they're probably not going to do it (time constraints) but it seems rather important for Pippin's development - the fact that he's CHOOSING to do this (albeit he's feeling called, the same way he was by the stone) and must take his medicine for it afterwards is a big step; less of the "Oops" Pippin and more of the "I did it, it was wrong, I must make amends" Pippin, if that makes any sense.Diamond - Is that Mrs. Miniver you're talking about? Dreadful. And have you ever seen the Greer Garson/Lawrence Olivier "Pride and Prejudice"? Now that was just unforgivable; we think Faramir was treated harshly, have you seen how they changed Lady Catherine?

AddictedtoRumil

12-19-2002, 07:38 PM

I have no idea what it will be like probably a few things will be changed i will not know until i see it i think it will be interesting.

-Imrahil-

12-19-2002, 08:55 PM

A few things will probably be changed just like in TTT. I dont' consider TTT such a low point though, it was still a good movie.

Tigerlily Gamgee

12-19-2002, 11:54 PM

Well, I don't think that TTT was a mistake... and I am sure that PJ doesn't either. It is quite something to be proud of. I'm sure he doesn't care if a handful of people say that he did a bad job, because he has full support of his cast, crew, and millions of people world-wide. I, particularly, enjoyed the movie. Yes, it's different, but the more I think about it the less it bothers me. In fact, it really doesn't bother me at all... it did two weeks ago, but that has worn off.I am expecting to be blown away by ROTK. It's the major part of the whole story and I am sure that the actor's wil deliver performances that no one is expecting. I am speaking as a satisfied fan... don't criticize me for enjoying it, because I am proud to say that I do (and don't say then that I am not a true Tolkien fan, because I am also that).Bring on ROTK!... well, in a year... shoot.

-Imrahil-

12-20-2002, 12:07 AM

TTT really wasn't "bad". It was really quite good and avid fans can find stuff to dislike in any movie. But, it was not quite on par with FotR, and I thought it would be better because it is an easier movie to make (you don't have to introduce everyone, develop characters ect.)Somewhere between removing the nobility present in Faramir and Theoden in the books PJ did make a mistake. I consider it a large mistake, but Gollum/Sam/Gandalf make up for it in my opinion.It was still one hell of a movie and I loved it.[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: -Imrahil- ]

Diamond18

12-20-2002, 12:38 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Is that Mrs. Miniver you're talking about? Dreadful. And have you ever seen the Greer Garson/Lawrence Olivier "Pride and Prejudice"? Now that was just unforgivable; we think Faramir was treated harshly, have you seen how they changed Lady Catherine? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope, I do mean Mrs. Mike. I've seen Mrs. Miniver too, but Mrs. Mike was much worse...I can't even begin to describe how bad it was. *Shudder* Let's repress those memories, shall we? And no, I've not seen the old P&P; I own the 1995 version.On the whole, TTT is like a seasaw with me. There were the truly awful moments, the so-so moments, and the wonderful moments. Up and down I go over and over. I'll have to see it again to fully judge it, but I've been giving it some thought, and I was enjoying it until Faramir. He cast a pall over the whole thing, but as I become numb to that (and I look at the book and think, pfft, the real Faramir is still there!) I can recall the parts I liked with more clarity.Sam shines out—even in the wacky Osgiliath stuff he was still wonderful. I'm sure he will be just as good in RotK.And, whether it's wrong of me or not, I continue to like movie-Frodo. I understand and sympathise with those who are dismayed at Mr. Baggins' portrayal, but I can't make myself dislike it. So that never bothered me. So I'm assuming that it won't bother me in RotK, either, no matter what happens.Merry and Pippin were allowed to drop the comic mantel, and I think that bodes well for their RotK portrayal.The little errors and questionable changes in this movie I could forgive as fan fiction and even grow to appreciate in its own right. But Faramir...my God...like I said, he cast a pall over everything.Anyway, I am not giving up on RotK. I think this movie really suffered from one great blow that I still hate. But if Faramir can in some way come back or be repaired in RotK, I'll still be able to say I liked the movie trilogy, all things considered.My feelings of "TTT wasn't really that bad for the most part" and hope for RotK were bolstered by the last scene, "Samwise the Brave". I was writhing about Faramir and then I watched that scene and thought, "Aw, what a great scene!"So one moment I'm down about TTT and one moment I'm up, but either way I'm still hopeful that all will end well.

mollecon

12-20-2002, 02:09 AM

I think RotK will be better for the 'stick-close-to-the-book-or-we-will-kill-you-crowd'. After all, TTT is supposed to be the one that deviates the most from the book(s) - & PJ haven't shut the door behind him, so to speak. For all the changes in TTT, none of them actually prevents PJ to make "Return of the Book"

Nalana

12-20-2002, 09:11 PM

I hope it turns out well next year. I'm looking forward to it. I'm sure for the most part, you all are as well.

Orual

12-20-2002, 10:07 PM

I think that after the rollercoaster ride of the Two Towers (Whee! WHAT?? Whee! WHAT??) many of us are disillusioned and dismayed, but I have high hopes for the Return of the King. My only hesitation is that they left out SO much from the Two Towers, they'll have to squeeze all of RotK and a good two hundred pages out of TT into three hours. (Sounds like a long time, doesn't it? But it really isn't, I realize...) I really want to see Shelob, and I have no doubt that PJ can handle her quite well. I can't WAIT for Gandalf's showdown with Saruman, though I'm a little more worried about that. (I'm a bit of a worrywart.) I'm looking forward to Pippin and the Palantir, Faramir and Denethor, Merry, Eowyn, and the Ringwraith, and the destruction of the Ring. And I almost cry when I realize that I've still a year to wait until I see Sam carry Frodo up Mount Doom--I have such utter faith in Sean Astin to do a perfect job that I'm on pins and needles waiting for what I think are some of Sam's finest moments.Return of the King will rock. I have no doubt. The Two Towers was a bit disappointing, but it's the least like the book of any of the movies according to PJ (and he ought to know), so we shouldn't worry. When do we start the countdown?~*~Orual~*~

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie

12-20-2002, 11:53 PM

I am really worried about RotK. If you think about how much of TTT they left out, you think that they will have a hell of a job cramming it into RotK. But I'm worried because the amount they left out in TTT, might be equivilent to the amount they will leave out in RotK.

Iarwain

12-21-2002, 02:00 PM

Well, all I can see is that RotK can go in two very different directions. 1) PJ can pull it all back together and make the film a good three to four hour production; squeeze in Shelob, the Gandalf/Saruman showdown, make an amazing Battle of the Pelennor fields, and finish it up with Aragorn and Arwen's marrige and Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin riding off in to dusk. or,2) The trend may continue with Frodo and Sam running through Cirith Ungol without opposition, across Mordor, and Gollum finishing off the ring in the classic way (or Frodo falling in). Saruman will jump to his doom out of Orthanc and the Palantir will be left out of the story. The tiny army of the Rohirrim will ride to Minas Tirith in time, but Faramir will be killed and Denethor will welcome Aragorn with open arms (or kill himself). The Battle upon the Pelennor will be a mere skirmish and by the time it's over, the quest will be achieved. Aragorn will ride to Lindon to meet Arwen. They will be married as Elrond stands angrily by. The screen fades out as Merry and Pippin ride thoughtfully across the Shire. Either way, I don't think time will be as much of a concern as might be thought, since the Scouring of the Shire is to be cut out completely.thoughtfully contemplating, Iarwain[ December 21, 2002: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

Nurumaiel

12-21-2002, 06:41 PM

Don't be too worried about Pete leaving stuff out, because we got our Lothlorien gift-giving scene back in the FOTR Special Edition DVD...there is still hope! I'll just be upset if they don't give Merry his proper part slaying the Lord of the Nazgul. He didn't get to help solve the Moria riddle (lunatics ).~Nurumaiel

TealDude3

12-21-2002, 06:54 PM

Don't worry Nurumaiel, Frodo's not there to take the glory this time.

Iarwain

12-21-2002, 07:28 PM

Well, tealdude, all I can say is that I never said that PJ screwed up. Saying that he screwed up indicates that he did something which he didn't intend to do. I don't think that he is an absent minded fool that blundered his way around this film. PJ simply directed this film in a way that many people dissagree with. That doesn't mean that he was wrong, or that the movie was bad as a movie, it simply says that he chose to show/tell a story that many people were not expecting, and because of that have a hard time appreciating.Singing Merrily, Iarwain[ December 21, 2002: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

Manwe Sulimo

12-21-2002, 08:38 PM

Yes...we'll let her kill them....and then we'll get it when they're dead....I'm just hoping that Shelob will live up to that awesome intro Gollum gave her.

Pukel-Man

12-21-2002, 08:56 PM

If you don't like TTT you can go see one of the many other fantasy films showing-oh wait,there are no other movies being produced other than H.P. and those films don't really count. So I will look foward to next year. At least someone had the balls to take this project on and give us a film at all. Maybe if we ask nice enough, Sean Connery will do some more voice work so we can get "Dragonheart 2".

Diamond18

12-21-2002, 09:49 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 1) PJ can pull it all back together and make the film a good three to four hour production; squeeze in Shelob, the Gandalf/Saruman showdown, make an amazing Battle of the Pelennor fields, and finish it up with Aragorn and Arwen's marrige and Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin riding off in to dusk. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But if it ended with them all riding off together, that would leave out the Grey Havens and Sam's line "Well I'm back" and little Elanor.... I wouldn't consider that a good ending. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>and Gollum finishing off the ring in the classic way <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But isn't that a good thing? Or by "the classic way" did you not mean "the book way"? 'Cause that's what it sounded like. (Can't you just feel my confusion? )

Iarwain

12-21-2002, 09:59 PM

I didn't mean that everything in the descriptions was bad, or good. I just thought that those were two probable routes. I agree that the grey havens should most definately be included, but I don't find it all that probable (I might be wrong). I also love the classic ending with "well, I'm back" (It always makes me cry), but I doubt that they'll put that much detail into it. Allow me to restate the possibilities as all bad and all good:1) PJ can pull it all back together and make the film a good three to four hour production; squeeze in Shelob, the Gandalf/Saruman showdown, make an amazing Battle of the Pelennor fields (including Eowyn and Pippin), and finish it up with Aragorn and Arwen's marrige and the departure at the Grey Havens.2) The trend may continue with Frodo and Sam running through Cirith Ungol without opposition, across Mordor, and Frodo casting himself (and the ring) into Orudruin. Saruman will jump to his doom out of Orthanc and the Palantir will be left out of the story. The tiny army of the Rohirrim will ride to Minas Tirith in time, but Faramir will be put to death and Denethor will welcome Aragorn with open arms (or kill himself as in the book). The Battle upon the Pelennor will be a mere skirmish and by the time it's over, the quest will be achieved. Aragorn will ride to Lindon to meet Arwen. They will be married as Elrond stands angrily by. The screen fades out as Merry and Pippin ride thoughtfully across the Shire, contemplating the loss of Frodo and Sam. Description #2 makes LotR sound like a skirmish between barbarian tribes doesn't it? [ December 21, 2002: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

Diamond18

12-21-2002, 10:16 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The screen fades out as Merry and Pippin ride thoughtfully across the Shire, contemplating the loss of Frodo and Sam. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>EEK! If that were to happen, I don't know if I'd cry in anger or laugh insanely. Either way the ushers would have to escort me out because of the disturbance.The thing you brought up about the Pelennor being a mere skirmish is a slight fear of mine. It's just that they hyped Helm's Deep as the greatest battle we'll ever see on screen, and it makes me wonder! Why did they say that? Shouldn't the Pelennor outclass Helm's Deep? Hopefully it was just one of those statements like the one I read back in September which said they were going to create lots of tension between Aragorn/Éowyn/Arwen and "sex it up" in TTT. It made me fear a catfight was in order. And of course that didn't happen at all.

Nenya

12-22-2002, 04:32 PM

Orual: Thank you for your post, and saving my time by already saying the things I wanted to say! You haven't got a bit of a mind-reader inside you, have you? Diamond: Never fear, Sam is returning home (according to the pictures) and we will most likely see Grey Havens, so you won't have to end in a straitjacket... And I think they said that Helm's Deep is the greatest battle we have up until now seen, not that it will remain as such.I too have a couple of fears, but on the whole, I'm really positive about RotK. To me, the most important part of the book/movie is Frodo&Sam's journey to Mordor, and thus far it has been done well. Yes, there is that question about the character developement of Frodo (or the lack of it), but I still have great trust in PJ and Elijah. And Sean will of course save the day! Oh, how can I possibly wait another year...

Man-of-the-Wold

12-23-2002, 04:22 PM

One thing to perhaps anticipate is Liv Tyler (who really carries the role well, so to speak) actually coming to the Grey Havens but turning about. This could be very cool, and worth the distraction of what goes on in Film-TTT.Of coursed, it's highly difficult to reconcile with the Books, unless one considers that she might have come close to leaving, before fully turning to Aragorn, at some point well before Third Age 3018/3019. Conceivably, she might have been able to precede her father to Elvenhome.In any event, it will be interesting to see how it happens, whether Cirdan or Galadriel play a role; whether Elrond (Hugo Weaving) has a change of heart; whether her little lamp-carrying procession is somehow intercepted by baddies, and/or by good friends of Aragorn, who are a facsimile of the Grey Company; whether she just takes off for Gondor liberated Elf-women of Endor that she be; or who knows what!?Mr. Jackson is on his own here, in a way that JRRT might have at least appreciated a little, seeing as he regretted not doing more with Arwen, but Mr. Jackson is playing with fire to be sure. I do hope we still get the standard that she prepared for Aragorn. I think that would be very moving on Film.Also, in this same context, it would be very interesting to see if Narsil is reforged for the Film and perhaps brought to Aragorn at Elrond's behest. That might be the sort of reconcilation of Hugo Weaving's character, towards which his present ambivalence and churlishness points.

Tigerlily Gamgee

12-23-2002, 09:23 PM

OK, currently re-reading ROTK... it's amazing how much detail can be forgotten over the course of the year. All I have to say is, WoW! If this one is done well it is going to be one of the most breathtaking films ever! The Siege of Gondor... can't wait to see that! I just really hope that they keep the sons of Elrond there... cause if Arwen somehow ends up there in their place I will be very upset.

The Silver-shod Muse

12-24-2002, 12:47 AM

Tigerlily, you can probably bid farewell to the sons of Elrond. Who needs sons (or slayers of Balrogs, for that matter) when you have the lovely and persistently indispensible Arwen? After looking through what PJ's still got to cover, I'm beginning to think that this should've been done in four movies. Just how long is RotK going to be? Three hours interferes with most people's schedules, what would four+ do?

Nenya

12-24-2002, 06:13 PM

There's so much that they have to tell, that some things just have to be cut. The question is, wich things. I so hope that PJ get's it right...There's so much at stake in RotK. As you said, Tigerlily, if he plays his cards right, RotK should be the most mind-blowing film of the Trilogy.

Bruce MacCulloch

12-24-2002, 09:33 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Maybe if we ask nice enough, Sean Connery will do some more voice work so we can get "Dragonheart 2". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>We did and he didn't. Went straight to video (and for a reason).

Morquesse

12-24-2002, 10:45 PM

All I can say is that RotK is going to be completely packed. Shelob, Merry/Eowyn/Nazgul thing, the End of Saruman, the destruction of the Ring, the battle of the Pelennor Fields,Aragorn & Arwen's wedding, and possibly the Gray Havens! Goodness! This is going to be good I have faith in Rotk. I think it will be the 'Grand Finale', so to speak, in other words, Magnificent! And I doubt PJ would change something in there if he could help it. I thought TTT was good. In a way, I thought it was better, because I could really 'get into it', so to speak, while I could hardly never do that with FotR, but I still like FotR because it's closer to a book I love. Adios! ~M P.S. Shall I start a Count Down Thread? 357 days 'till it comes out!

doug*platypus

12-28-2002, 05:37 AM

As if being born in Aotearoa/New Zealand wasn't good enough already, I was fortunate to be an extra on ROTK for three days. If you think book-to-movie relations are at an all-time low now, you ain't seen NOTHIN' yet.The second time I saw TTT was more enjoyable than the first, mainly because all the initial disappointments were behind me. I was already prepared for 'the Faramir incident'. So no doubt I'll go into ROTK expecting to be disappointed. Gollum's words show that at least they're going to show Shelob (something that I was looking forward to in TTT, something that would've given it a much better ending than it has). But if they are going to show the confrontation with Saruman (one of the greatest moments in the book), it looks set to be a 6-hour movie! I think we should all rightly be worried about which of our favourite scenes will be next to get the chop. Probably the Paths of the Dead. And as someone pointed out on another thread, there is no Minas Morgul on Faramir's map, so we may not see the Black Army setting out. Frodo saw the Shire overrun in the Mirror, but maybe that was only a possible future, and that important part of the story will be butchered as well?No matter how it turns out, I think I've already seen my favourite two movies of the trilogy. I'm not really looking forward to all the cheesiness of the Field of Cormallen. I can't wait for Shelob, though, I'm sure she'll be great!

stinker_slinker

12-30-2002, 09:56 AM

I was thinking that the Saruman/Gandalf casting out will probably not happen. i think the movie will dispose of saruman some other way. and for sure no scouring of the shire, and i highly doubt the grey havens.

Barodir

12-30-2002, 10:19 AM

You know, from the way every sounds, it looks like you guys arent gonna see it. Get over it! So PJ leaves out some details, big woop. It'll still be an awesome movie and will definetly go on my list of movies to see.Oh, btw, Faramir will be like the book character because if you remember at the end of TTT, he 1.)let Frodo go and 2.)some troop said "you know the penalty of letting them go, death" (or something like that), so now Denethor can, instead of having Faramir killed, can yell at him and stuff and "banish" him like they did with Eomer. Just a thought from a guy who hasn't even finished the books

tWiLiGhT

12-30-2002, 10:42 AM

don't know if any of you have read this...but from the sounds of it rotk will be much longer than fotr and ttt...so maybe they will fit in alot more of the scenes that could have been cut out??...Jackson & Woods on Return of the King Wednesday, December 25, 2002 10:35 CSTThe Chicago Sun-Times talked to both Elijah Wood and director Peter Jackson about The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King. Here's a clip...It might be much longer," says Elijah Wood, who plays Frodo Baggins, indicating that the last journey, "The Return of the King," will be inching toward the 3-1/2-hour mark."It will be as long as it needs to be," says director Peter Jackson, who is busy editing the film right now. "The third is my favorite one in the trilogy. It's almost biblical and makes me cry. It's about incredible courage and the last part of it is just mind-boggling."Wood adds, "The third movie has always been my favorite. I've seen moments from it and they just break my heart," he says. "You've grown to care about these characters and they lose quite a lot in the process of the third movie. Frodo, Sam, Gimli, Legolas and Aragorn will never be the same."[ December 30, 2002: Message edited by: tWiLiGhT ]

tWiLiGhT

12-30-2002, 11:01 AM

back again...i also found this...again...i don't know if you have read it or not but here it is anyway... You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet! Demosthenes @ 5:18 pm EST TORn staffer Arathorn typed up part of the Mail on Sunday magazine special for our reading enjoyment. Some very interesting RoTK information in this article ... and, of course, spoilers!You ain't seen nothing yetThe final part of The Lord of the Rings trilogy, The Return of the King, promises to be the most thrilling, says Karyn Miller (Mail on Sunday reporter, I presume).When The Return of the King, the final and most spectacular film in The Lord of the Rings trilogy, is finally released in December next year, it will have been eight years in the making. It promises to provide a fitting finale to the series.There will only be a few new characters in the first film, including Denethor, the Steward of the Kingdom of Gondor and the father of Boromir, who is played by respected Australian actor John Noble."Denethor resents never being king, and Boromir inherited that bitterness," says Noble. "It's what led Boromir to try to steal the Ring in the first film"When Gondor is besieged by enemy forces, Denethor, who has fallen under Sauron's influence, becomes desperate and deranged."It is my job to show the humanity of the man," says Noble. "He is literally driven mad by grief and fear."Sauron's henchman, the Mouth of Sauron, also makes his first appearance, although his head is covered by a large helment and all that can be seen of his face is his nose and gaping, decomposing jaws.We may also see more of Sauron himself. "You can't reduce him to being a big guy striding around in black armour, but he cannot be limited to a flaming eye, either," says Jackson."The Sauron in the books is sketchy at best, which makes it hard to turn to turn him (sic.) into a screen villain. But imagine not really seeing Darth Vader for all three Star Wars films. You just can't do it."This is from an old interview we think, see our earlier report here.Despite such qualms, Jackson has high hopes for The Return of the King."The battles will be the biggest you have ever seen," he says. He can make such a claim with confidence thanks to the help of his special effects company, Weta."We have poilted a piece of software that allows us to have 200,000 computer-generated extras fight each other," he says."You simply press a button, sit back and watch these enormous battles unfold before your eyes."The incredible effects can be seen during the opening scenes of The Fellowship of the Ring, and again during the Battle of Helm's Deep in The Two Towers. However, it is in the concluding chapter of the trilogy that this ground-breaking software will be utilised to create the most incredible effects.Jackson has already earmarked the film's final scene, which takes place amid the sweeping landscape of the Grey Havens, as his favourite."To me, it's a culmination of the entire story; it represents what it is to give and what it is to lose," he says. "That scene is probably the most powerful part of the entire film."

Gorwingel

12-30-2002, 12:05 PM

Everyone calm down, I personally think that ROTK is going to be great, even though they are removing some, it seems they are keeping in a lot so I am not worried. I thought that TTT was a great movie, but very different from the book. And I think that there is a ton of opportunity to keep most of the elements from the book. The only big problem I have with it is that I am going to have to wait a year to see it.

drigel

12-30-2002, 01:02 PM

After viewing TTT, I was not dissapointed as much as facing the realization of how hard it would be to create a film from TLOTR. PJ obviously loves the books and respects the author. He also needs to make money..... Still am trying to figure out why elves were at Helms Deep. What was he trying to do there?ROFK will have to be just jammed packed. So what would I cut out? hmmmm grrrrrrrProbably abbreviate the Paths of the Dead. ditto for Pippin and the palantir.Must have in TROTK: Merry/Eowyn Gandalf/Saurman Scouring of the Shire Grey HavensOk, Ive done all the calculating and my movie is going to be 4hours and 45 minutes hehe. PJ has done well - I too thought Shelob and the capture of Frodo would be an awsome cliff hanging end to the movie but I cant complain too much - except I wanted to see more of the Ents and thought the voice was way too obviously John Reese Davis... sigh

Nenya

12-30-2002, 06:51 PM

So, the big question now is: What will be cut?Let me do a bit of a summary: -Shelob: will definetly be there. -Merry/Eowyn/Witchking: most likely to be there. We've had a couple of hints, and this isn't the kind of stuff that PJ wouldn't do. -Saruman/Gandalf: they have to finish Saruman off some way or the other, but I think the scene will - understadably- be very different from the book.He has to go with a bang, being the only "real" bad guy in TTT&FotR. -The Scouring: Sadly, but once again understandably it won't be there. -Grey Havens: I can't imagine PJ having guts to leave that off...He would be literally murdered! And there have been tons of things hinting that it will be included. Oh, and that statement Twilight posted.Well, there were the most obvious things.[ December 30, 2002: Message edited by: Nenya ]

Diamond18

12-30-2002, 06:59 PM

Thanks for those posts, tWiLiGhT . They're very encouraging.

WhatName

12-31-2002, 12:16 AM

Hey, here's some info that I found: (Spoilers)The third of the trilogy. As the shadow of Mordor grows across the land, Aragorn is revealed as the hidden heir to the ancient kings. Gandolf miraculously returns and defeats the evil wizard, Saruman. Sam leaves his master for the dead after a battle with the giant spider, Shelob; but Frodo is still alive--in the hands of the Orcs. And while the armies of the Dark Lord are massing--and the one ring comes ever closer to the Cracks of Doom.[ December 31, 2002: Message edited by: WhatName ]

GreyIstar

12-31-2002, 01:57 AM

The Return of the King will be the best of the three. The battles bigger, the stakes grow higher and every step towards Mordor gets harder. I personally can't wait even though I have the Two Towers right here to see. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> "To me, it's a culmination of the entire story; it represents what it is to give and what it is to lose," he says. "That scene is probably the most powerful part of the entire film." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>See PJ gets it. Ive said all along as long as the movie ends with the Grey Havens then all is good. I will bet there will not be one dry eye at the end of this movie. And I can only imagine what marvelously sweet and somber tune Howard Shore is composing to compliment it.'Where are you going, Master?' cried Sam, though at last he understood what was happening. 'To the Havens, Sam,' said Frodo. 'And I can't come.' 'No Sam.' and"Well, here at last, dear friends on the shores of the Sea comes the end of our fellowship in Middle-Earth. Go in peace! I will not say: do not weep; for not all tears are evil." Heartbreaking.[ December 31, 2002: Message edited by: GreyIstar ]

Arwen Imladris

03-10-2003, 06:13 PM

Another SPOILER! Possibly a description of the trailer for ROTK! <A HREF="http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/2/1047330856" TARGET=_blank>Click Here!</A>

Gorwingel

03-10-2003, 07:43 PM

I read that, I am now worried if that is true (which I doubt), some of those things really stray away from the books.

Tar-Palantir

03-10-2003, 07:57 PM

Well, PJ did say that the reason the trailer would not be attached to the end of TTT is because he hasn't finished it yet, he has been working on the RotK film. So I doubt this report. Thanks for linking it though....only 281 more days...

Iarwain

03-11-2003, 06:37 PM

It sounds... rushed. If Sauron really charges at Aragorn I will leave then and there. Of course, all of the rest I could have guessed, and some (Wormtounge killing Saruman in orthanc) I already knew. We will see. We will indeed.Riding peacefully on Fatty Lumpkin, Iarwain

Vahalla

03-11-2003, 09:36 PM

I don't know if I believe that review, but I think that he may be getting the character of the Mouth of Sauron confused with Sauron. I have seen photos of the Mouth and he does look pretty imposing, plus the actor they cast for his part is quite tall. Just a thought that might explain the idea that Sauron leads the charge, which would make the Faramir departure look pretty tame. I have faith in PJ.

Aerandir Carnesir

03-11-2003, 10:38 PM

I'm not too worried about RotK, I mean, I...unfortunately...saw the movie(s) before I read the book.(don't hate me!!!) I read RotK though, I'm halfway through FotR, and I read the Hobbit.Anyway, I can only imagine what PJ could do to RotK. I know that since there's no Scouring of the Shire, and I saw a spoiler pic, Saruman does get impaled on some sort of jagged rock; probably something on Orthanc. I'm guessing that Denethor, if he dies at all, will die other than torching himself, as these days, people getting burned alive seems to be somewhat controversial. As long as the Palantir, and the Wizard showdown etc. Is there, it should be a good movie. If they put in the paths of the Dead and Pelennor fields, the Mouth of Sauron, and Merry/Eowyn/Whitchking. It should be better, But I'll be REALLY mad if they leave out the right ending to the ring, or the Grey Havens. Man! I could go on and on and on and...on. I'll post later. I thought that the other movies were really well made. I love them!!! But the story mostly went to hell.Ranger of the Dúnedain,Aerandir Carnesir

Arathiriel

03-12-2003, 12:08 AM

I personally think that RoTK will be the BEST of the three and I certainly anticipate it greatly! RoTK is my favorite from the books and I have confidence in PJ's abilities to finish these movies off well with the third one!I am very anxious to watch Elijah Wood's performance in this one as well as Sean Astin -- judging from how wonderful they both did in the first two movies, I am going to be crying a river during RoTK!I also can't wait see the parts with the other characters and PLEASE let Faramir's character be redeemed before RoTK ends as I didn't like what they did to him either in TTT!*Sighs*December 17 is SOOOOOOOOOOOO far off and I CAN'T WAIT!!!!

Mornie Alantie

03-13-2003, 11:04 AM

If you go to the <A HREF="http://www.theonering.net" TARGET=_blank>www.theonering.net</A> and go to the movie section and then to casst you can read a little about them and the mouth of Sauron is 6' (7"?) tall. Do you know where you found the pics of him were Vahalla? Another things is that the real daughter of Sean Astin plays Elanor in the movie. I have seen some of the pics and she is a few years old running into daddy Sam's arms. To finish the movie prehaps they will have Sam coming back from the havens and having his daughter run into his arms. Who knows.

Birdland

03-13-2003, 12:00 PM

I'm making a bet that, since the Scouring has been eliminated from the movie, that Frodo will never cross the boundries of the Shire again. I don't know how they will work out the logistics, but I can see the Fellowship winding up at the Havens (or some equivalent place. The Bay of Belfalas?) and having Frodo, Bilbo, et. al. saying their good-byes first. Then Merry, Pippin and Sam make their way home alone.

Lalaith

03-13-2003, 12:36 PM

They can't go straight to the Grey Havens. When would Sam have found the time to father Elanor?

Birdland

03-13-2003, 01:22 PM

Whoops! Good point. (Forgot about that minor matter. )

harlindon

03-13-2003, 05:36 PM

I think that ROTK will be the best, too. I can't wait to see the dead army. (sorry for those who are reading the book) I really can't wait to see the meeting at the black gates with the messanger of Sauron. It going to be soooooooo cooool!!!!

Faenaduial

03-13-2003, 06:07 PM

I can't wait to see how PJ handles the Paths of the Dead. It's a part of the book that gave me chills when I first read it. You never know how the CG imaging is going to look and I would hate for it not to come off well.

Iarwain

03-13-2003, 09:04 PM

About the Grey Havens, this is probably an unwelcome guess, but I'm thinking that perhaps they will not be included. It would be much easier on time constraints if the hobbits arrived safely back in Hobbiton, Sam got married, and Frodo settled down to finish the Red Book. The End. It's a sad idea, but very much possible.Iarwain

harlindon

03-13-2003, 11:25 PM

Nope, thats not how its going down. Thats how they are ending the movie, with a shot of the gray havens. They aren't taking it out. I mean they already too out the scourching of the shire if they took GH out i think that they would fear for their lives. Us tolkien fans would riae up or something.(hhehehehehehhe)

Arwen_Evenstar

03-14-2003, 12:29 AM

Hey! Dunno if anyones mentioned this yet, but I heard they're not putting in the scouring of the Shire. THEY BETTER BE!!!! Please prove this rumour wrong!!!!

Gorwingel

03-14-2003, 12:31 AM

Peter Jackson has already said that the scenes in the Grey Havens are his favorites from the all the films (that must mean they are pretty good *crosses fingers*) And How could they forget that part, that was the part when I read the book that I was going "No, you can't go". It is one of the main parts, and the question is if they did get rid of that part (which they would never do, Peter Jackson is not that dumb, *thinks* well he did do that Faramir part) what would they put there instead? Another battle? Frodo going to the Shire and marrying a hobbit lass? I don't know.

Gorwingel

03-14-2003, 12:38 AM

Oh and Arwen_Evenstar the Scouring is not going to be there. The filmakers annouced about a year ago that it was not going to be part of the films. They decided that they wanted to get the films down to a main storyline. Frodo going to Mordor, Aragorn, you know the deal. They thought that the Scouring would kind of come out of the blue, and the parts of the audience that had not read the book would not understand what was going on. Because truely they did not give that much background about the Shire, they only gave the information that was absolutely necessary. And I also got confirmation about this when I sat in on the Q and A session at Ringcon with Brad Dourif who plays Wormtounge. One of the people asked about the end of the book and his charater and the Scouring. And he said that they never filmed any scenes for anything like that. He knew about that part, and he had to break it to this person that one of his favorite parts would not be in the films.

Lady Greenleaf

03-20-2003, 02:24 AM

Oh, Tigerlily I agree! I would be so dissapointed if they left out Elladen and Elrohir! I think we've had enough of Arwen as far any scene irrelevant to her romance with Aragorn goes....as long as they keep her in her rightful place as Aragorn's love, that fine. But Elladen and Elrohir need to be brought in....I mean, they already replaced Glorfindel in FOTR with Arwen....that really sucked in a way because I wanted to see what Glrofindel would be like...

HCIsland

03-20-2003, 08:37 AM

I wouldn't get my hopes up too much. I would suspect that if they were going to use them, they would have mentioned in the films by now that Elrond has sons.H.C.

Iarwain

03-20-2003, 08:30 PM

Yes, I agree, their time passed in TTT, when they did not bring the aid of the Dunedain. Those danged elves came instead! They might accompany Elrond to Minas Tirith after the destruction of the ring, but even then they probably won't be named.Iarwain

Arwen Imladris

03-20-2003, 08:36 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> It always amuses me when we get casting information for a film that was shot almost 3 years ago and will be released in a little less than 9 months from now. Kiwi actor Ian Hughes' website on aucklandactors.co.nz has his last credit to be the part of BEREGOND in ROTK. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><A HREF="http://www.aucklandactors.co.nz/ViewActorFrame.pl?objectID=276" TARGET=_blank>More</A>

HCIsland

03-21-2003, 09:36 AM

Where did you get that quote from Arwen? That's awesome. I would take Beregond over Imrahil any day of the week.<A HREF="http://aucklandactors.co.nz/ViewActorFrame.pl?objectID=276" TARGET=_blank>Ian Hughes:</A> Read the top line of his filmography.H.C.

Arwen Imladris

03-21-2003, 03:03 PM

HCIsland: Most of my information on the movies comes from <A HREF="http://www.theonering.net/" TARGET=_blank>theonering.net</A> They always have lots of information about the movies on their front page. They usually have something new everyday!

Morquesse

03-22-2003, 01:33 PM

I do not know if anyone has seen this before, but here it is: <A HREF="http://www.tolkienonline.com/movies/changes_rotk.cfm" TARGET=_blank>Complete list of RotK movie changes</A> Ii looks interesting, or at least from the bit I have seen. I am not sure if this information is to be trusted, but you can decide for yourselves. ~M

Arwen Imladris

03-22-2003, 04:04 PM

Morquesse: I at least have seen that before. You can also look at the changes for TTT, most of them were accurate, however, it does change. If you look at the bottom of the page, there are several changes that have been decided to be false. We of course won't know for sure until December! Only 9 mounths to go!

Iarwain

03-22-2003, 04:14 PM

I shouldn't have looked at that link, Morquesse! I'm going to see FotR again tonight. Wow, that just ruined my day. (It isn't your fault, so don't worry about it, I'm glad I know about the changes now. I won't be depressed when I discover in eight months that RotK is complete crap. ) Yet again, it looks that they have flattened the plot, I've lost all hope in PJ.Iarwain

Lady Greenleaf

03-22-2003, 09:10 PM

But don't u think Elladen and Elrohir would have to turn up since they do accompany Aragorn in the Paths of the Dead?( I'm dying to see this!!!! ) And they bring the Dunedain with them.....that's big, they'd have to put the Peredhel twins in ROTK.....or they could just replace them with friggin' Arwen.....lol, nothing against Arwen, she's awesome and beautiful and stuff but why can't they let everyone have their own rightful part? And I'm still peeved about my gorgeous Glorfindel!!!!!

The Saucepan Man

03-22-2003, 09:17 PM

Thanks for the link, Morquesse.One that I don't understand is the suggestion that Aragorn uses the Palantir in Minas Tirith after the Battle of Pelennor Fields. Surely it is Argorn's use of the Palantir while in Rohan that forces Sauron to act earlier than he would otherwise have done and move on Minas Tirith, thus prompting the Battle of Pelennor Fields.Also, it says that Arwen helps Aragorn to use the Palantir, but it also says that she doesn't turn up in Gondor until his coronation. If he uses the Palantir in Minas Tirith, one of those must be wrong.

HCIsland

03-22-2003, 09:47 PM

If they were going to have Elrond's sons, they would have introduced them in the special edition of FoTR. Don't get your hopes up.I think we need to give PJ a break (I feel like I'm perpetually saying this ). I count 26 named characters with lines that have been introduced so far. Here's the list.Aragorn, Arwen, Bilbo, Boromir, Celeborn, Denethor, Elrond, Eomer, Eowyn, Faramir, Frodo, Galadriel, Gandalf, Gimli, Gollum, Haldir, Hama, Legolas, Merry, Pippin, Sam, Saruman, Sauron, Theoden, Treebeard, Wormtongue.On top of that I count 32 places that are mentioned by name and I'm likely missing some.The Shire, Hobbiton, Bag End, Bree, The Prancing Pony, Midgewater Marshes, Amon Sul, Rivendell, Imladris, Caradhras, Moria, Khazad-dum, Dwarrowdelf, Isengard, Lorien, Argonath, Caras Galadhon, Amon Hen, Rauros, Emyn Muil, Dead Marshes, Mordor, Black Gates, Ithilien, Osgiliath, Rohan, Fangorn, Edoras, Helm's Deep, Westmarch, Barad-dur, Mount Doom.There is simply not another movie in history that compares to this in complexity. Even interpretations of the Bible don't run near this level of detail and I can guarentee you there are more people familiar with that story then Tolkien's.PJ is pushing as much as he possibly can into these films. He is stretching the envelope to its very limit and the fact that these movies are even comprehensible to someone who has not read the books is an accomplishment. That both these films have been widely hailed as masterpieces and have been nominated for best picture academy awards (among numerous others) is nothing short of brilliant.I can understand people disagreeing with character and plot changes, in fact I agree with some of them, but to complain about the absence of minor characters that are not necessary for progressing the plot in a film that already has more names and places than any other film in history ... I'm sorry, I just can't understand that.There is not a single director on this planet that would be capable and willing of getting the funding to make a series of movies of the detail that you are asked for. This is as good as it gets. If you want more, well I can wish for wings to sprout out of my shoulders, but I ain't gonna get them.H.C.