*TTT - Haldir (Craig Parker)*

[AddictedtoRumil]

Well i saw TTT today and i loved the movie but i was bummed when Haldir died that broke my heart he was a great character and very different i don't think it was fair that he died when he died no one really seemed affected by his death is anyone else bummed out about this??<BR>*******************************************<P>(Title edited)<p>[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ]

[AddictedtoRumil]

********************************************<BR>I bet no one will reply to this when i start a topic no one replys lol! <BR>********************************************

[-Imrahil-]

I replied!<P>I liked Haldir alot too. His death was quite sad I agree.

[AddictedtoRumil]

Thanks -Imrahil- you won a prize for being the first person to reply *A.t.R. fishes in her pocket for a prize and finds nothing, nada, zip, zilch* Oh wait you didn't sorry.<BR>

[Coral]

Well for a second, I thought he was gonna get up and start chopping at all the orcs, like Boromir...I was like," NO! NOT AGAIN!"...Then he just died and I was happy, why was he at HD anyways?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Congratulations, AddictedtoRumil, for creating a thread on a character that I forgot! Hope you get lots of answers. (I edited the title to match the official threads. I didn't know the name of the actor, though, so if you find it, you can add it or let me know.)<p>[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ]

[the witch king]

Well im glad he died his own falt for leading elves to h/d grr!

[Nianna Telmnar]

I for one think it was a very brave and noble act to take his men to Helm's Deep. He certainly didn't have to, and he probably knew most of them wouldn't make it back alive. Truly, it was not his battle but he chose to fight to honor and old aliance that had been all but forgotten. What chance would there be of men coming to the aid of elves if the situation had been switched?

[the witch king]

yes but the point is that it diddnt happen in the books and now i bet we wont get any of aragorns kin from the north comeing to war.

[Airehiriel]

Though it was not played out the same way as in the book, I was deeply moved with the way the elves showed up, and then was moved even more that Haldir died after bring them. Maybe I am too emotional, but I cried. (at both scenes, what a baby!! )<p>[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: Airehiriel ]

[AddictedtoRumil]

Well i must say i was very disappointed with most of the replies how could you be happy that Haldir died in TTT? I'm not trying to be rude but don't even reply to the post if your happy he died i asked if anyone else was SADDENED by his death not HAPPY about it!! I know he is just a fictional character but i still think that was very cruel. <BR>********************************************<p>[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: AddictedtoRumil ]

[AddictedtoRumil]

If anyone wanted to know Haldir was played by the actor Craig Parker Check out <A HREF="http://www.brandisdream.com/craigparker/craigparker.html" TARGET=_blank>this</A> site all about him.<p>[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: AddictedtoRumil ]

[Coral]

Bleh...I didn't mean that I was "happy" because he died, I was happy because they didn't pull a Boromir move and make him start killing all these orcs while he's dying. It just wouldn't work, make sense?

[AddictedtoRumil]

I wasn't talking about you Coral i mean like what The Witch King posted.

[Nianna Telmnar]

as for it not being true to the book. many things were not quite true to the book in this movie.i don't think that his death takes away from the storyline. <P>...and you are not a baby airehiriel. i also cried when he died.

[Diamond18]

I was neither happy or saddened at his death. Now that I think about it, he had the only real "death scene" in the movie. I mean, I believe that Hama was killed by one of the Warg riders, but they didn't dwell on it.<P>So taking into consideration that Haldir's death was supposed to be our Departure of Boromir scene, it came up way short. Granted, the battle was too busy and Haldir's character wasn't explored enough to dwell on his death with the emotion of Boromir's. But one of the things this movie really missed compared to the first one was a truly heart-rending scene. Did they expect that this would be it?<P>I don't know if it's just me, but it left me feeling apathetic, even though I did like Haldir better in this movie than the last. Showing up at Helm's Deep was pretty nice of him, even if it wasn't from the book.

[mollecon]

I was sad (of course) about Haldir's death. From the movie it was clear that the elves were send to Helms Deep by Celeborn & Galadriel.<P>It <I>does</I> make sense in the context of the movie. In the books we are being <I>told</I>, at a much later stage that is (after the wars are won, in RotK), that the Elves of Lorien faught orcs from the mountains during the Ring-war - & that people of Lake Town & the dwarfs of The Lonely Mountain also was involved in the war. That's not gonna work in a movie - the audience have to see things happen. And though the days of the Elves in Middle Earth are over, how could they ignore the troubles of a place they lived in for many thousands of years? I think Elves at Helms Deep makes perfect sense. <P>Anyway, I always wondered where the h*ck the elves of Rivendell were during the war (exept from Elrond's sons)...

[Finiel]

Haldir died???? <BR>Sorry. I haven't seen the movie yet.<BR>I like him a lot! He look so graceful and he has a kingly charm about him. He was even more elvish than Legolas (from my point of view). And the voice! Don't you just love his voice? <P>sigh... why are all my favorite characters die? I mean, first Boromir and now Haldir. sheeesh. Talk about bad lack. Well, I guess its for the good of the movie. But still...

[Thingol1000]

I was always struck by the poingency of the elves dying. They did not have to be there, but they helped becuase they did not want the Edain to burden this alone.<BR>So...its off to the Halls of Manwe they go.....<BR>They (the elves) treally did look quite regal. Anyone know the name of the weapon they used (the spear/sword thingy)

[Iarbariel]

I was like struck by lightning when Haldir died, I just thought "damn..not again!"..the same with Boromir.<BR>Oh yeah I really like his voice too :-) The reason I like Haldir is mentioned above..but compared to Legolas -wich I believe is the most perfect creature on the face of Middle Earth- he is more rough arund the egdes somehow. Wich I like ALOT!

[-Imrahil-]

I loved Haldir. Hated it to see the great elf die.

[Aengthrea Greenleaf Of Mirkwood]

I was very sad, but I use to not like Haldir for a reason I will not expain. I cried hard onto my friends shoulder making it soaking wet! Yeah I thought that he would do the same thing like Boromir! And when the orc stabbed him in the back AHHHHHH I cried harder *yells at the move screen* WHY DID YOU DO THAT!!!!????

[Brinniel]

I nearly cried when Haldir died. And each time I hear the song that plays during his death scene, my heart breaks in two.<P>In case anyone was wondering, this is my theory of why PJ had Haldir die:<BR>***In every book, the tragedy of a major character dying occurs, except for TTT. Helm's Deep was a major battle, and PJ wanted the audience to really feel the devastation of war. Perhaps watching the deaths of cameos would be sad, but definately not enough to allow one to really feel heartbreaking emotions. <BR>PJ could not kill off major characters like Aragorn, Legolas, or Gimli. No, they were too important. And Theoden could not be killed off yet. <BR>Perhaps add a whole new character to TTT and kill him off, but then again it wouldn't affect the Tolkien fans. Instead, it would make them happy, as they wouldn't like to see a new character in the first place. Besides, having a character in an hour of the movie before he dies might not even be sad enough. The only solution was to bring a character from FOTR.<BR>Unfortunately, that character was Haldir. Though he was only in 30 sec of the movie and 5 min of the extended version, he seemed likable enough and the audience had a year to think on him. Plus, Tolkien fans have read much more on him and would consider him more than a cameo. In conclusion, Haldir would be perfect to kill off, as he would surely set off all kinds of emotions.***<BR>That is my theory.<P>I really did appreciate Haldir's death scene. Unlike Boromir, he did not have a chance to keep fighting or exchange last words with Aragorn. Instead, PJ had him briefly watch the battle and others die while he himself was dying. I think that part really brings in the reality of war. I never really did like death speeches in movies, as they seem a bit corny. In a real life battle, a soldier does not often get his last words. And I think without the death speech or last words is what makes Haldir's death so tragic.

[Harmonica]

Oh, Haldir! Haldir! That beautiful elf...

[Massharpoon]

I think Haldir was a great character in the book, but in the movie they did not build him up enough. <P>Anyone who sees the movies and does not read the books could not get all broken up about a dramatic death sequence containing an actor with so little screen time.<P>I want to stress that the comment is from a movie perspective.

[Sithren]

*sounds desperate* it was terrible! he shouldn't have died!

[Merigrin]

I think with Haldir's death, it must of been pretty hard to do, because it must be weird for an elf to die, it must of been such an experience and flow of emotions, elves just dont do death. I loved the way that when Aragorn finally got to him and put his hand on his shoulder his head just fell back and his EYES during that scene, wow.<P>The awards for best Entrance goes to Shadowfax, and best Exit Haldir.

[Lindril Arvilya]

Really? Shadowfax? It was a good entrance, but I prefer Aragorn's coming to the hall in Helm's Deep. *doors open and the king stumbles through* Wow... I liked that one.<BR>I cried when Haldir died. Both times- I've seen it twice already. I figured it's what happens when you show up in places you don't belong. *kidding...*<BR>Maybe you could call those swords scimitars?<BR>And I also cried when Frodo nearly killed Sam. It was a good parallel to where Frodo does the same to Gollum.

[Marillanna Sarnie]

Haldir's death was such a tragic scene! I was so sad when he looked around and sees the bodies of men and elves lying on the ground alongside orcs, the expression in his eyes just made me want to cry. Farewell noble elf!

[Novlamothien]

I was very happy when the elves came to HD, and almost cheered when I saw Halir. I was really sad when he died. Although I did not cry, I came close. <BR> I must agree that Shadowfax had a very dramatic entry, and Aragorn too. <P> Namarie

[Man-of-the-Wold]

I think his death is simply 'cuz someone has to dies. In no way was it supposed to be all that momentous like Boromir.<P>Haldir dies to remind us that some of the good guys die, too, whereas its unclear about Hama.<P>Also, I think he's killed off, so that Aragorn and Legolas can lead his remaining contingent of archers, perhaps as a substitute for the Grey Company, for which the movie would have had hard time trying to explain about other rangers and all that, which goes unsaid in Film-FoTR.<P>I think the coming of that contingent makes sense. It shows that Middle-Earth elves are serious warriors, and that even if it takes some convincing of the Films' rather inexplicably pessimistic/skeptical Elrond by a telepathic Galadriel, they are still willing to help. <P>As others have pointed out, to otherwise convey information from Appendix I/II about the battles against Dol Guldor and the Easterlings that cross the Carnen would not really be possible, especially on top of trying to dramatize the whole Arwen Dilemma and what not, which is almost entirely Appendix-derived.<P>What I would have liked from Halmir is that in noting Elrond's decision to honor old alliances that he also described their arrival as a "Gift of the Lady"<P>All & all, I liked that element despite the obvious discrepency with the books.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I like your thinking Brinniel. It makes sense, at least to me. No doubt someone will pop up soon telling us exactly why it doesn't make sense but never mind.<P>Wasn't Haldir distracted because Aragorn shouted up to him? Maybe I'm getting mixed up.

[Aengthrea Greenleaf Of Mirkwood]

Oh yeah!!I remember when Aragorn was calling out to everyone to get back inside (i guess) Haldir was looking up and he was distracted!!

[Laialthriel]

It confused me at first when I saw the elves come to Helm's Deep, and I'm still not sure I really like it, but it was okay. I was so happy to see Haldir show up!! I love(ed) him. "The Dwarf breathes so loud we could have shot him in the dark." brilliant line! I didn't cry, but I was so incredibly heart-broken when he died. It was all I could do to not stand up and scream at the orc who got the final blow. A very well done death scene, I must say. Very touching.<P><BR>ps. yes, I did think it was odd that he died after Aragorn distracted him. <P>~*Laialthriel*~<p>[ December 23, 2002: Message edited by: Laialthriel ]

[Aragost]

They shouldn't have brought elves to Helm's Deep nor killed Haldir.

[orlandoandsaran]

I shed a tear of two when Haldir was killed but i NEVER like seeing elves die so i was pretty saddenned...<BR>The elves weren't even supposed to be there at all and Haldir was not supposed to die..<BR>Sigh...the change of history...

[Pukel-Man]

How anyone could get upset over a character who had almost no screen time and no personality is beyond me. BTW was Haldir a Vulcan or an elf?

[AddictedtoRumil]

Well not everybody appreciated the character as much as some people do and that's ok pj should have gave Haldir a larger role in the movie.

[Balin999]

As I have mentioned in another thread, when I saw Haldir die, I screamed put sth like "what a crap".<BR>I wasn't moved at all by his death, because I was so angry that he showed up there with his bowmen. Why would an elf of Lorien just come there and say "here we are, ready to die, bla bla bla"<BR>This was really poor work. There could have been better ways to show craig parker in TTT. <BR>Of course, it was a sad scene, but it just didn't fit in there. Haldir shouldn't have come there, it didn't happen in the books. Actually I wanted to leave the theatre after Haldir died, because I was furious because of all the changes they made in the movie. <BR>Haldir, R.I.P, and leave us alone now. (my word in peter jacksons ear)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

In the film, we couldn't be presented with the fighting in Lothlorien and Mirkwood. However, the director wanted the audience to know that Elves were still fighting against Sauron. It was logical enough to stick them in Helm's Deep and talk up the alliance between Men and Elves, that's all.<P>I really don't think its as big a deal as a lot of you are making out.

[Cherie Centaur]

I have to admit I was ****ed off at the whole Elven bowmen thing but Haldir's death made me as sad as I could be with The Clone of Boromir's treachery still in my mind. I now understand why they killed him off (I've now been thinking maybe they should kill the clone off too ).

[greyhavener]

I agree, Eomer. After I got over the "what are they doing here." I thought "how cool." I think the death of an elf was a nice touch and sort of underlined the mortality struggle between Arwen and Elrond.

[Garen LiLorian]

I <I><B>Hated</I></B> the elves at Helm's Deep. I'm sorry. Many of you have brought up good points, and showing that Elves <I>were</I> fighting Sauron is all well and good, but it was just so poorly done!<P>Haldir; "The Elves have decided to fight alongside Men, to honor ancient alliances."<BR>Aragorn; "Great! So... Um... when are they getting here?"<BR>Haldir; "Whaddya mean? We're here!"<BR>Aragorn; "All twenty of you, huh?"<P>It had such a political gesture feel to it.<BR>Then, when Haldir died, I was wishing it would get over with quicker. It seemed like such a obvious ploy to get the audience involved. For some of you it worked. Good for you! I guess I'm just to cynical and heartless to identify with a character that has zero screen time. I'd much rather have had Hama get a death scene at Helm's Deep, and stay closer to the books. <P>Maybe I've just seen too many war movies, but I am sick and tired of the cliche slow motion, all sound ceasing, sad song playing death. It worked for Boromir really well. Boromir was a <I>character</I>. I could identify with him. (of course, I may be slightly biased, as he was always my favorite) Haldir was <I>no-one</I>. He did nothing. It wasn't even his decision to come to Helm's Deep. He's just a lieutenant. IMO, if he gets a death scene, so should every other soldier in the whole army. Equal rights! Equal rights!<P>Oh, yeah. And I didn't like him even as a character. Pudgy elf. Didn't work for me that he was a bad**s warrior. He was too proud, too fat and too haughty. Seemed more like a feudal baron than a kingly elf. Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

[Alex Chamois]

As others have said, it was weird to have elves turn up at HD, but once they were there, it was plenty of fun, and Haldir's death was poignant not only because he was a good guy, but because it was representative of the sacrifice the elves made. As Elrond points out (yuck, but necessary for the non book readers), even if Aragorn survives the coming battles, he still dies. Haldir never needed to die. His sacrifice is therefore more meaningful than any number of human deaths.

[Gorwingel]

Haldir's death was sad, just seeing that part when they close up to the look on his face. Yes, I know the elves did not go to Helm's Deep in the book, but it was not as bad as I thought it would be, but I am a pretty easy going person in these kind of matters.

[doug*platypus]

True, it's always sadder when an elf dies than a man - they've lived for so long, and they don't have to die, unlike men. <P>But for me, the only good thing about the elves turning up at Helm's Deep was seeing Craig Parker get butchered!! Those of you who had to put up with the early days of New Zealand soap Shortland Street know what I'm talking about - it's a kiwi thing. Besides, he was such a dork compared to Haldir in the book. When I saw the movie 2nd time round, the person next to me cracked up when they saw him turn up in his gaylord armour, and I had to join in. <P>One of the greatest advantages the movie could've had over the book would be to change location to show the battles of Lorien and Erebor, if only for a few seconds. Once again PJ takes something great and turns it into mush. I really hope we get to see Halbarad and co in the 3rd movie - as Theoden says if they're anything like Aragorn they must be great warriors. I'm prepared for disappointment, though!

[LadyElbereth]

In the first movie I hated Haldir, he was snobby and rude (nothing like what I thought he was going to be like). But in TTT, even though I was extremely angry at the fact that all those elves went to HD , I cried my eyes out when Haldir died . <BR>I was so loud that the ppl in front of me turned around and glared at me. Anyway, even though I liked Haldir alot better in TTT, did PJ really have to put elves in HD? That was a big dissapointment for me.

[Nilaraniel]

I was in complete shock when they killed Haldir. He is by far one of my favorite characters (#2 after Legolas) and I was quite angry to see him at Helms Deep to begin with.<BR>To put it simply, I was traumatized when he was killed. I've seen it twice so far. The first time all I could do was stare in complete shock....I have no idea what happens for at least 5 minutes after that. And the last time I went I covered my eyes for most of Helms Deep.<BR>Very disturbing, it was.<P>Nila

[Liriodendron]

Poor Nila! You hadn't heard of Haldir's death? What a bummer!I hate surprises, especially bad/sad ones. Since the movies are different from the books, I read all the spoilers I can, to be prepared.

[Peri]

I was so sad when Haldir died! You could kinda see it coming though. When he gets slashed by the orc, he becomes distracted by his wound and you know something bad is gonna happen. Poor Haldir.

[arelendil]

Not only did it annoy me when the elves turned up, it total spun my head so i witht the rest of the film. It also got all my friends talking to me in the middle of the film wanting to know why the elf died if elves are immortal. Now you try to quietly explain the idea of elves the dark lord ruining the perfect vision etc and keep an eye on the plot. Plus my friends are so slow and have never even lifted LOTR let alone read it so i was doubly annoyed.<P>I so loved Haldir, he was a change from Legolas(and his followers with banners!!) and then Arwen. I was so sad, i cried loads but then i cried when all the trees where torn down, i mean what did they do wrong. I wanted Haldir in the thrid one at the wedding!

[AddictedtoRumil]

Here is an awesome pic of Haldir i found<BR>

[Alex Chamois]

rofl@doug<P>I know just how you feel, having wished many an aussie soap star in various guises (the white rabbit bimbo from Matrix and sundry Star Wars characters) a horrible death

[Nianna Telmnar]

I know this version in the movie is way different but at least this way he made the movie! (still furious about Glorfindel) Still he makes my list of characters that got screwed over by PJ: <BR>1. Glorfindel<BR>2. Tom Bombadil (they could have at least mentioned the guy)<BR>3. Faramir <BR>4. Hama<BR>5. Quickbeam ( i love him!)<BR>*5. Haldir<BR>I'm still holding out that Eowyn actually does something in ROTK.

[Alex Chamois]

Mmmm, poor Glorfindel. Think of it this way...what if Glorfindel HAD been the one to ride out and meet Aragorn in FotR? Don't you think PJ might then have been tempted to send Glorfindel to Helm's Deep at the head of Elrond's archers? Then it would be Glorfindel that died, a much greater tragedy.

[Alex Chamois]

Oi<P>I just noticed that Haldir in that pic has brown eyes. The blue-eyed conspiracy is over at last

[Nianna Telmnar]

I agree it would have been a huge tragedy. (and most likely led to riots of Tolken fans in theatres) but the question is would it have been better for the movie's flow? I mean, if your going to kill off and elf, why not one we would have a real attachment to as opposed to one who gets 5min screentime? (please note i have yet to see the extended dvd of FOTR)<BR>*note: i am not supporting nor discrediting the appearance and killing of elves at helms deep, just making a point*<P>Oh, and I really like that Haldir is a little more rounder in the face and has brown eyes. The other's were starting to look like clones.

[lossentilien]

I think his death made the battle more realistic. I didn't have any particular feelings towards him until he died, and the seeing him killed like that gave the scene the emotion it needed. My friend and I sat with our hands over our mouths in shock. It was one of those moments when you feel like reaching up into the screen and stopping it so that he's ok.

[Lhunbelethiel]

When I saw Haldir appear at Helm's Deep I darn near yelled "YES!" because I was glad the elves were there, illogical though that may be. I was shocked when he died, though he played Haldir a bit oddly in my opinion...<P>And, am I the only one who thought some of the Elves at Helm's Deep looked like women? Not just feminine, but actual women? (this is not a critique, I was just curious) COULD there have been female warrior elves??

[the real findorfin]

When the elves marched neatly into Helm’s Deep it was very moving. And Haldir’s speech about renewing old Alliances. (sob) Aragorn hugging him was also great.<P>His death was tragic and nearly made me cry, because he didn’t have to be there at all but chose to!

[Merigrin]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>And, am I the only one who thought some of the Elves at Helm's Deep looked like women? Not just feminine, but actual women? (this is not a critique, I was just curious) COULD there have been female warrior elves??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR>Lhunbelethiel, that's really funny because I just had a 'flu induced dream about that, kinda an Eowyn/warrier elf dream. Haldir's sister came along for the battle saw her brother die and fell in love with Aragorn. Which is funny 'cos Haldir doesnt have a sister and aragorn was a gray old man who kinda looked like leslie neilson. Trust me, are you guys glad I didnt write the script for TTT! <BR>I dunno why I'm laughing but I'm ill and Im allowed too.

[VanimaEdhel]

Thank you for the picture, Rumil, now I'm crying again...it's okay, I'm used to it...<P>The way I went into "The Two Towers" was that I consciously tried to forget everything about the book. I went in just looking to see how good it was as a movie, as that is what it was. And, you know what? If you only concentrate on that, it is an <I>amazing, amazing</I> movie that carries the same messages and themes as the books.<P>I did kind of think that the Elves showing up right at that moment was a tad too coincidental, but I did not mind that they came. It went along with the whole Elrond-grouchy-face thing that PJ put into the story. Can't say I like that part, but still, it did not ruin the story.<P>What I keep saying is, "Even if Frodo were to write the story down, maybe he would not get everything exactly as it was, as he was not in all three places." I mean, there are some things (like the Elves coming to Helm's Deep) that he would <I>know</I> didn't happen, but no one knows exactly what was going on back home with Arwen and cranky-head-movie-Elrond.<P>Then there is what Phillipa Boyens says when people complain about the lack of Bombadil-ness: "Well, just because we didn't show it doesn't mean it didn't happen! We just decided to show what we could fit! Although we didn't film it, we can't automatically assume that it didn't happen to them! We didn't show you every day of their journey!" I think that it's kind of cute that she came up with that excuse. Well, I also like her because she was completely smitten with Mr. Mortensen and Mr. Bean, and I think that's adorable...

[Lhunbelethiel]

Merigrin! How weird! You had that dream after I mentioned the warrior women elves! haha! I know what you mean about sickness induced dreams... they can be bizarro. I wish I had LOTR dreams, but alas, none. I did have a lovely Viggo dream where I was hugging him. *swoon*<P>Hope you feel better soon!

[Marsyas]

While I understand the thought that someone had to die, I am sorry that Haldir had to be the one. I liked him very much for being one of the minor(in my humble oppinion) characters. Though PJ changed the story line in having elves come to Helms Deep, I feel that he did it as well as he could and with a lot of thought. But poor Haldir.....

[Cibbwin]

Hey, I'm a guy and I had a few tears in my eyes, belive it or not, when the Ents started destroying Isengard. That part was amazing. I love trees, so that really was breathtaking.

[doug*platypus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> In the film, we couldn't be presented with the fighting in Lothlorien and Mirkwood. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh. Why not? Maybe we should discuss that in another thread though.<P>Back on the Haldir thing, someone mentioned they liked Aragorn hugging him, which made me re-think it. It was supposed to be funny how Haldir didn't want to hug him, like "oh, you filthy human, I just polished my armour!" - but why of all peoples would an Elf not want a hug? Is that not grossly out of character for their entire race? Why should Gimli be so soppy when an Elf won't even hug Elessar? PJs artistic licence should be revoked.

[LePetitChoux]

I think it was his own fault he died, as he wasn't even wearing proper protective armour! Honestly! You may think you're a great fighter, but accidents do happen! Haldir learned the importance of Cycling Helmets the hard way. When he died, I was sitting there thinking, "ah well, someone had to die, and <I>he isn't wearing any armour</I>!!!" It was sad, but not too sad.

[Alex Chamois]

Why not? Because aside from time constraints, will the audience really be interested in shots of random battles in places they've never heard of? It takes time and care to establish a relationship with a single character, much less an army. You might say to yourself, "aaah, yes, that's the Mirkwood elves," but everyone else would be saying "who are those people? what have they got to do with anything? Where's Aragorn and Legolas and Gimli?"<P>As for the hug, Haldir's reticience is not supposed to be a comment on emotionless elves. I mean, you've seen both Arwen and Legolas getting pretty emotional. It's a reflection of Haldir himself, as a warrior, a hard man with a hard job to do. This is the guy who refused to let a dwarf into Lorien without a blindfold. This is the guy with some fairly pessimistic comments to make on the state of the world and the darkness spreading over it. I think it was totally in character.

[maikafanawen]

I agree with Alex Chamois. I was upset when Haldir died but it made the movie more intimate and emotional and brought you into the whole war sense of the movie. Personally...my favorite part was when the Elves showed up at Helms Deep. I was shocked because that wasn't in the book. It was really amazing. And the way they turned in syncronization...perfect.

[greyhavener]

I thought Peter Jackson had Haldir die in order to underscore the Arwen/Elrond scenes about mortality. The death of an elf is somehow more shocking. Haldir didn't have to be there and could have chosen eternity had he not put himself into battle. Throughout the movie Arwen and Elrond and Aragorn struggled over Arwen's choice of mortality. Haldir's death was a heroic statement about the elves' role in the fight against Mordor and also emphasized what Arwen was choosing.

[ambi]

Haldir's death drove me quite close to tears. It was really sad and more so as he looks down and sees more of his kin dead, when they cld hve simply sailed to Valinor peacefully. <P>Another reason for his death might be that during the voice of saruman scene in ROTK (if its there) Theoden will not agree with saruman because he is reminded of Haldir instead of Hama, who was killed by a warg rider earlier. But the one flaw is that maybe Theoden hasn't seen his death as he was in the keep. Maybe saruman will try to convince Aragorn.

[greyhavener]

I agree with Eomer on why P.J. brought in the elves.<P>I also saw in Haldir's death an underscoring of Arwen's choice. The enormity of casting aside immortality is captured in portraying the death of an elf. For me this made the scenes between Elrond and Arwen and Aragorn's conflict about Arwen's choice all the more poignant.

[Nianna Telmnar]

Well, I FINALY saw the extended version of FOTR, and let me tell you having seen TTT, I almost cried during his scenes with Aragorn in Lothlorien. <P>I can speak as one who saw TTT without having read the book (ran out and bought it the next day though!) The scene where the elves come to Helms Deep is emotional and wonderful. And I can forgive that they changed it from the book. I am now just a little more than halfway through ROTK, and I'm already wishing it was next Christmas!

[lossentilien]

Just a quick note to say that I have just seen TTT again, and Haldir is wearing armour. He's just not wearing a helmet, but there's all this bronze/gold metal covering his chest, which I assume to be fancy armour.

[doug*platypus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Legolas getting pretty emotional. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Maybe this is more of a reflection on Orlando than Legolas, but I haven't seen a whole lot of emotion out of this guy. He looked more confused when Gandalf died than anything. Looking at the ground doesn't make you look sad. Being torn apart like Elijah/Frodo was does. You've made me think about it some more, Alex, and I'd have to say that with the exceptions of Arwen and Galadriel the Elves are much less emotional and especially compassionate than I think they should have been. Elrond definitely has a chip on his shoulder. I don't think Haldir made much of an impression on me as a character, so I didn't really feel sad when he got butchered, almost certainly hacked to pieces and probably eaten.

[Tiger]

One comment too the fight-when-you're-dying-Boromir-thing. Boromir was shoot with arrows, none of those acctualy hit him in the heart or head, Haldir's backhead did get slit in two. If there had been a comtest on living longest between them I know who i would have placed my money on. One thing more, Boromir was a member of the fellowship and a bigger charater than Haldir, so they had to make his death more worthy of a warrior..<P>One more thing: When you get angry about the changes P.J. has done, imagine that this have happend and P.J. and Tolkien tells the same story, only a little bit diffrent. You does not feel so cheated if you do, belive me...

[galadriel'smaiden]

I was rather depressed about the death of Haldir... It was sad. Imagine, your last view of life seeing the bodies of your greatest friends, who had the chance to be immortal...Lying lifeless, slain in a battle that was not your own... Brought tears to my blue eyes...

[galadriel'smaiden]

DOES ANYONE ELSE FIND IT DEPRESSING???????

[gilraën]

The part where the elves come to the aid of Aragorn etc at Helm Deep was the most moving part of the film for me, the bit where Haldir gets killed is the most poignant. I've watched it 8 times now and each time I steel myself for the sound of the horn and Legolas "That's no orc horn". Surely the look on the faces of the Rohans when they turn up is enough! In a dark film it is a warm moment for sure.

[Faye Took]

Oh man, I HATED that Helm's Deep part. Grrr. Oh well. MAN I got so mad when Haldir died! I totally forgot he died in the books. Argh, first Boromir now him!

[dunedain_aragorn]

aragorn distracted Haldir at first, but Haldir died as he was making his way back, and isnt it strange, 2 people have died (boromir, Haldir) with aragorn at their side. weird huh?

[dunedain_aragorn]

galadrielsmaiden! i did not cry! (she said that in another post) I almost cried when Haldir died though. i think it was one of the coolest parts, even if it wasnt in the book.

[Alex Chamois]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Maybe this is more of a reflection on Orlando than Legolas, but I haven't seen a whole lot of emotion out of this guy. He looked more confused when Gandalf died than anything. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I've gotta disagree, Doug, buddy Maybe he looks confused to you, but what he says is, "I have not the heart to tell you. For me the grief is still too near." He's so upset that he can't bring himself to translate the lament. Then at Helm's Deep, he seems to me to be genuinely afraid. When he says, "they're all going to die", he is protesting not only on behalf of the humans which are all about to be massacred, but on behalf of himself, Aragorn and Gimli. Now, he's a warrior and warriors are supposed to keep such feelings to themselves. That is how I can classify Legolas as emotional.

[Mandos]

If I may add my two cents into this, Legolas was confused over Gandalf's death in the affect that he didnt understand death. Elves are immortal and the concept of suddenly dying is confusing to them. Of course he is emational and was upset. But to an immortal being, death is confusing.

[Nieninque]

*sighs* Yes, I did cry when he died, as well as when Frodo almost kills Sam *cries for poor Sam* The look in Haldir's eyes... I also think PJ killed him off because it wasn't really stressed that elves could die in FotR... a 'little reminder', so to speak...<BR>How about his entrance? I like it when Aragorn hugged him. He was surprised, but he hugged him back and smiled. *smiles at the memory* Despite his lack of screentime, I already had a special place in my heart for Haldir. Now it feels empty.

[Mandos]

Well dont be too sad, knowing PJ's changing of things, Haldir may come back in The ROTK as being reincarnated.

[Armani_Elf]

*nods*<BR>Hiro e ab 'wanath *grieves*<P>peace

[Nieninque]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Well dont be too sad, knowing PJ's changing of things, Haldir may come back in The ROTK as being reincarnated. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>*laughs* Yeah, that's entirely possible...<p>[ January 04, 2003: Message edited by: Nieninque ]

[dunedain_aragorn]

I thought it was sweet how the elves came. It was awesome how you could see the peoples faces light up. I also thought it was sweet how warrior Aragorn couldnt help but hug Haldir he was so happy. I was personally VERY sad when Haldir died. *le sigh*

[Cherie Centaur]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Well dont be too sad, knowing PJ's changing of things, Haldir may come back in The ROTK as being reincarnated. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's a little wrong. But that brings up too many questions to post right now. I saw what I last wrote on this thread and I can't believe I wrote that! I'm sorry to all who read my post, it was pure evil! I love Haldir and I just cast him aside to rant on Faramir! I feel so awful

[Nieninque]

When does he die in the books? I'm not done with RotK yet...

[elf_Legolas]

I didn't cry when he was killed but now I'm trying to compose myself. I agree with all the good that everyone has said about him. I don't agree with anything that was negatively said about him. <P>Um....I don't believe he dies in the books.<P>*goes to bed and cries into pillow*

[Sasha]

I was terribly upset when he was struck.<BR>I cried everytime i saw it. Do u tink it's possible he may come back??

[Agarwaen]

ok this is sort of off topic but all the talk of how Haldir isn't supposed to be there and such brought it to mind...<BR>did anyone else almost laugh out loud when Sam and Frodo are in Osgiliath, and Sam says something to the effect of "By rights we shouldn't even be here?" ... he meant something else by it, but I just cracked up. you dang well shouldn't be there Sam. it's not in the book.

[Atariel]

i didn't even think that Haldir was in TTT, and he certainly doesn't die. Nasssssty LA Directors. and isn't it just SLIGHTLY disrepectful towards Tolkien's great memory to show (nonetheless sexy) Orlando Bloom on the equivalent of a skate board, when they were only invented in the decade that Tolkkien died. Poopingtons.

[Olaf Von Lichenstein]

When Haldir and his mighty elves of Lorien I stood up and gave a mighty cheer for my favorite character that the entire audience took up. When i was stunned to see Haldir die (curse that Aragorn for distracting him!) i started crying. Naturally everyone in the theater thought I was mentally retarded, but it was so sad to see such a noble warrior die

[Rosolas]

I was really saddened at Haldir's death. He was an officer and a gentleman, and a damned good chap of an elf! The when the camera moved in on the other dead elves, that was very moving too.

[PigsnieLite]

Haldir was a brave noble elf who died for Middle Earth, but might have had one too many cream puffs. Look at all the other elven kind. They are all being diminished or somethin, so they rush off to the Undying Lands, carrying lanterns. But Haldir goes off to Helms Deep wid his archers & honours the Alliance wid the stinky Men of Middle Earth (who never seem to take baths, by the way).<P>HALDIR LIVES! <P>PS. I haf met Craig Parker & he is a skinny humorous humble fellow. Peter Jackson must haf told him to gain a little weight for LOTR.

[King_Elessar]

I did not like Haldir much in FOTR, but I cried when he dies in TTT!!

[elf_Legolas]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Do u tink it's possible he may come back?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>He better! I love him!!!!! *cries* Why did PJ have to kill him!!!!!!!!!!! grrr!

[maikafanawen]

Many, many good things were said on this thread.<P>What Mollecon said about the elves making perfect sense arriving at Helms Deep, I agree completely!!<P>Aengthrea Greenleaf Of Mirkwood: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> “And when the orc stabbed him in the back AHHHHHH I cried harder *yells at the move screen* WHY DID YOU DO THAT!!!!????” <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I jumped up and yelled as well! Then I sat down and started crying silently *snifs* <P>Harmonica:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Oh, Haldir! Haldir! That beautiful elf... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, Harmonica, he *was* a beautiful elf! *sighs*<P>I was moved by the elves arrival at Helm's Deep, and saddened to a huge extent at Haldir's departure. <P>And just for the record, when Aragorn called up to Haldir to tell him to move back to the keep, Haldir looked at Aragorn, knodded, waved back to his the elves and the other men (if any) that were on the wall, I think he even fought off another orc, swung around or something, and *then* was killed. So it was *not* Aragorn's fault.<P>But why Haldir ...

[PigsnieLite]

I belong to this group of cool people who love Haldir. Its in Livejournal. All they do is talk about Haldirs scrumdillyumptious all day long, even though Im a boy. (I can stand it, I guess, hahaha!)<P>Here it is.<BR><A HREF="http://www.livejournal.com/users/savehaldir/" TARGET=_blank>Save HALDIR!</A>

[Nieninque]

So he doesn't die in the books... then how can PJ justify offing him? It's not like he died somewhere else and PJ<BR>just wanted a nobler death or something *sobs some more*

[Arwen Imladris]

Hi! I'm not a big Haldir fan (In the movies, because he is not supposed to be at Helms Deep. Yes, I am still very bitter about the elves at helms deep)but there is an interview with him (Craig Parker) <A HREF="http://www.nzgirl.co.nz/articles/1804" TARGET=_blank>here</A>and info about a birthday project (a scrap book to be sent to him ) <A HREF="http://www.freewebz.com/cparkerproject/index.html" TARGET=_blank>here.</A>

[elf_Legolas]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Well dont be too sad, knowing PJ's changing of things, Haldir may come back in The ROTK as being reincarnated. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't know, probably not..............

[mollecon]

&%#/%#/ No way José! Haldir isn't gonna return...

[Arwen Imladris]

<A HREF="http://www.craig-parker.net/" TARGET=_blank>Unofficial Craig Parker Website.</A><P>For all you Craig Parker fans. Enjoy.

[Eressië Ailin]

When Haldir died I stood up and shouted 'YAY!!!!' because he wasn't even supposed to be there.

[PigsnieLite]

That is a cool pic of Haldirs action figure on that website. I WANT WUN!

[LadyElbereth]

Whoa! If Haldir is reincarnated and appears on the next film, I'm gonna hack someone's head off!! *goes to sharpen her sword*