Note the swordplay - !

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

I would venture a guess a number of us have seen the movie more than once (more than five times?). In your next viewing, check out the different fighting styles used in the movie, and tell me if you agree:<BR><UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Aragorn is very aggressive, every defense is an offense, uses lot of pointwork. He already has a long reach, extends that with constant forward action. But his style depends on keeping his opponents on the defensive, relying on superior speed. Not to mention surprise. It's risky though, if he were to slip up or face an equally skilled (and aggressive) opponent he's much more open to serious injury, especially if flanked. But it's hard to get close enough to him.<BR><LI>Boromir's a traditionalist - defend, defend, cut. He uses a balance of defensive and offensive moves, keeps himself well-covered even in the offense, with a lot of diagonal cuts. He does let the enemy come to him, and lets them close with him, unlike Aragorn. He'll be slower to defeat an opponent, relies on superior stamina, but takes fewer risks and is less likely to take serious injury. Generally I think that sort of fight will the last man standing against staggering odds, since he takes care not to be hit. <BR>The way he died is the only you could take him down - arrows and overwhelming force. <BR></UL><P>Just a few observations. They were definately trained by professional swordsmen, no Shakespeare swordplay here!<p>[ March 10, 2002: Message edited by: Marileangorifurnimaluim ]

[Mayla Took]

Yes! I agree with you. (And I have seen the movie 10 times) they all have unique styles that portray their character very well. I read that Orlando Bloom (Legolas) was professionally trained in archery, horseback riding and fencing!

[raefindel]

Interesting. I'll pay closer attention next time.

[Glenethor]

Yep. Aragorn is awesome in the fight scenes. It doesn't look fake (although there'd be a lot more blood in 'reality,' but PJ needed the PG-13 rating) and Aragorn is very quick and aggressive. Legolas' use of the bow was superb.<P>And Sam wielded a mean frying pan too! LOL!

[Joy]

Hate to spoil this for you, but Legolas wasn't a perfect shot. His arrows were CGI. They took away his arrows, becuase he was a danger to others. He shot one of the crew members.

[Elendur]

Joy you have to be kidding. Well, that takes away some of the coolness of watching him shoot people.<P>And, yes, Aragorn is very good with a sword in the movies. He shows a lot of skill in handling a big sword like that.

[Glenethor]

It's all choreographed, right? The salient point is that it was done <I>well</I><P>Oh, my sig is playing on the stereo. I love this song!<P>Peace

[piosenniel]

yes!! the sword fights were wonderfully well done, and the differing styles fit the characters well. it would have been interesting to see what style gandalf might have used. i can't remember seeing him in any extended sword play.(ok, that will be my goal for the 8th viewing!)

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Ha! Joy I didn't know about Orlando Bloom's wayward shooting. I read an article where he said he got pretty good by the end of it, was shooting paper plates out of the air. Sounds like there were a few more casualties in the process, what you might call a bit of a learning curve. Funny how perspectives differ, depending on which end of the arrow you're on.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Orlando: "Gee, I'm getting pretty good at this." *poink -*<BR>- camera crew dives out of the way<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Actually, none of it's real. I seriously doubt Viggo was a master swordsman at the end of only 14 months. But the image they've created is very impressive.

[starbreeze]

Wow! I never noticed that.<P>If what you say is true Joy, I'm a better archer than Legolas!! I have been shooting for two years and I have never hit anyone - 9 times out of 10 I hit the boss ( thats the target's technical name ). Wow! I can now say I'm better than Legolas - thats certainly something!

[Enedhil]

*sniggers*<P>but it looks good. I like the way my jaw still drops open *clunk* (picks jaw off ground) *clunk*<BR>damn, not again...!

[Lush]

Ah, my jaw has hit the ground so many times, it's becoming bruised. <BR>Maril-interesting notes. I enjoy good fight scenes, particulalry when they are fought by good-looking men. <BR>And kids, don't forget, Gandalf did get to fight! I distinctly recall seeing him whack a decent amount of Orcs with his staff.

[Elendur]

Actually, Lush, they got a very notable proffesional swordsman to come and teach the crew how to use swords. I forget the guys name, but he said Viggo was one of the most skilled sword weilders he had ever taught.

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

No family bias, right Elendur? <P>That's interesting about Viggo's actual skill with a sword. Did he mention if Viggo had previous training, or was this exceptional talent?<P>Lush, I'm with you, a good fight scene is fascinating, but a good fight scene with an attractive hero... purrrrrrr....

[Kalimac]

Very cool, Maril . I know next to nothing about swordfighting, though I can usually tell if a movie is doing it *really* badly; for example it always drove me crazy when two characters are allegedly duelling to the death but always stop at critical moment to make witty remarks, obviously counting on their foes to be sporting enough to wait until they were finished before trying to kill them. But the LOTR guys certainly looked like they knew what they were about, or at the very least, were choreographed down to the second.<P>Also I'm not sure if anyone knows the answer to this, but how on earth do you do CGI arrows convincingly? Just have the intended victim stagger after the number of seconds it would take the arrow to fly through the air? It seems like the kind of thing that would be really hard to do....and be incredibly obvious if done poorly (Hmm, Legolas seems to be shooting in slow motion today. His bow must need a jumpstart). Does anyone know?

[Birdland]

I read an interview with the Sword Master on LOTR, who said that Viggo was a natural and was one of the best actors that he had ever trained. He had a lot of respect for his ability. <P>Pretty sweet he caught on so fast, considering he was a last minute replacement.

[Glenethor]

I saw it again tonight, and paid attention to his technique. I am not a martial arts expert, but he is good at using kinetic energy, derived from spinning around, to force home his attacks. I've read that the choreography was so involved, that if one of the actors or stunt men drew even a slight blank, they could've been seriously hurt.<P>The fight with Lurtz is cool. Aragorn gets basically the unowhat kicked out of him, headbutted, but bounces back to knock the knife out of the air (the one that he lodged in Lurtz' thigh) and then in the sword fight....his movements are a <I>blur</I>...<p>[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: Glenethor ]

[Joy]

As far as CGI arrows, I suspect that they had someone else shoot the bow and hit the "target" and then place Legolas with his bow and graphically place the arrows in his bow and switch to the injured/killed scene.

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Glenathor, that's interesting, I hadn't noticed the use of kinetic energy, but come to think of it.. good excuse to see the movie again. I look forward to the "Making of" CD which hopefully will have interviews with our master swordsman and explain some of the background and technique. <P>Joy, I suspect you're right. That would mean the critical role in arrow volleys is - the editor.<P>Birdland, I seem to recall that Viggo is something of an outdoorsman and took advantage of the filming in New Zealand to fish, camp, and generally live in the outdoors. Stands to reason he'd have a knack for such raw physicality.<p>[ March 16, 2002: Message edited by: Marileangorifurnimaluim ]

[Lostgaeriel]

Just FYI: The Sword Master's name is Bob Anderson.<P>He's legendary: stunt work on <I>From Russia With Love</I>, <I>The Empire Strikes Back</I>, <I>The Return of the Jedi</I>; fencing coach on <I>Barry Lyndon</I> and Sword Master on <I>Highlander</I>, <I>The Three Musketeers</I>, and <I>The Mask of Zorro</I>. (according to tLotR Offical Movie Guide) I've also read in magazine interviews that he was on the British Olympic fencing team and coached Errol Flynn at some point. So when Bob Anderson credits Viggo Mortensen with being his best student, that's saying something. (Viggo kept his sword with him at all times. Got stopped by the cops as he headed out to his car one morning carrying it! )

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Lostgaeriel, haven't seen you in a while! <P>No kidding, Viggo's that good?<P>Thank you. Bob Anderson. I'm going to see what I can find on him and his work in the LotR movies. If I find anything I'll post a link here for those interested. What I really want to see is his design and thinking behind the different styles, and ideally footage of training for all of the actors.<P>Here's what I've found so far, but probably everyone's seen it:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Bob Anderson, the world’s top sword master who has consulted on such films as Star Wars and trained the legendary Errol Flynn, was also brought in to train the actors in different fencing techniques. An expert in medieval arms, Anderson read the novel and then developed sparring methods based on Tolkien’s descriptions of each culture. For example, he determined that the hobbits are so small, they should fight as a team. Some, like the axe-wielding Gimli the dwarf, use other kinds of weapons. A commando army of stunt performers was given special training to perfect the unique fighting styles of the Orcs, the Uruk-Hai, The Ringwraiths, the Elves and the other civilizations in Tolkien’s universe. An expert in firing ancient English longbows was also brought in. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Another bit:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Tell me more about the fighting styles? Are they recognisable, or did you 'invent' them? <P>They're styles developed for each particular character. Some are creepy and cockroach-like, some are quite smooth and dainty - flowing gracefully, and some are just crash-bash-nothing-stops-them killing machines. <P>How do you devise the fight sequences? <P>We've been very lucky ... the production has brought out a chap called Bob Anderson, who's the world's top swordmaster, An amazing guy - he's 77, and he worked with Errol Flynn. Even now, he moves like Bruce Lee. When he has a sword or weapon in his hand, he makes the hair stand on end. He's English, an Olympic fencer. He's done all the Zorro films and and TV series, he did First Knight and all the Highlanders, and he played Darth Vader in all the early Star Wars films. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have a feeling we haven't seen anything yet: wait till we get to Helm's Deep and Pelennor Fields, not to mention various skirmishes throughout.<p>[ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: Marileangorifurnimaluim ]

[Amanaduial the archer]

helms deep is going to be sooooooooooooooo cool!!!!!!!!i actually thought the hobbits fighting was very cool, especially when boromir was teaching them...heehee one of the best bits of the film. neway, all of the cast had to do 2 months training b4 they even started the filming!<P>lol<BR>amy

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Here's a little more, though not much about the swordwork - <P><A HREF="http://www.theonering.net/features/newsroom/files/091201_vbsbint.html" TARGET=_blank>Interview with Viggo Mortensen and Sean Bean</A>

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Another odd bit:<P><A HREF="http://www.zealot.com/features/archives/lotr/authenticity.php3" TARGET=_blank>Actor Karl Urban, playing Eomer "My fighting style is completely different from all the others.. you have this sleek character who's like a dancer, weaving his way through the battle."</A>

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Oh! Guess what? Bob Andersen also did the fight choreography for <I>The Princess Bride</I>. "My name is Aragorn son of Arathorn. You killed my ancestor. Prepare to die."

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Well, this is getting a little one-sided this afternoon, but here's an excellent interview with Viggo on what it was like filming the battle scenes:<P><A HREF="http://www.frostyland.com/Viggo/viggo.interviews.html" TARGET=_blank>Totally into it, and that means everyone -</A>

[Lush]

Thanks for the links Maril! (Lush is always watching...because Lush is currently trying to escape the real life in cyberspace!)

[Lostgaeriel]

Hi Marileangorifurnimaluim!<P>Yeah, it's been a while. I pop in occasionally and read a few threads, but I've been spending WAY too much time checking out Viggo sites to read interviews. Especially good is <A HREF="http://www.houseoftelcontar.com/" TARGET=_blank>The House of Telcontar</A>.<P>And I've been turning the pages of two of his books while I listen to him read his poetry on a CD. And when I'm done that, I haunt the shopping malls looking for his movie videos (at a good price) or borrow them from the library. Watched A Walk on the Moon tonite.<P>But to be a little bit on topic - I really enjoyed the swordplay. I liked how the hobbits fight as a group - back to back - it makes sense. I also loved the scene where Boromir teaches them some moves. I've only seen the movie twice now. Will go again - gotta take my sister.<P>Comment by a ten-year-old boy sitting behind me at the matinee, when Aragorn slices off Lurtz's head:<BR>"That'll work!"

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

You're very welcome, Lush, and well come and well met Lostgariel! I'll be sure to check it out. I find both Viggo and Elijah to be interesting personalities off-screen.

[pippin_took0]

Billy Boyd actually learned fencing (not as part of the film) but he said it was a bit of a disadvantage when filming because the hobbits were supposed to be a bit clumsy, they wouldn't exactly look like Aragorn when he was fighting!

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Hi Pip. That's interesting, I'd say that was probably harder to pretend not to know how to fight than pretend you do.<P>Here's that quote Lostg. mentioned:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><BR>[Viggo Mortensen] is the most dedicated, the most athletic, the best swordsman I've ever trained.<BR> <BR>Bob Anderson, Sword master<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'll be darned.