Eowyn or Arwen?

[Carlas]

Who do you think would be better for Aragorn? Eowyn or Arwen?

[Arathiriel]

I say Arwen simply because I am a <B>BIG</B> fan of their story...

[the mortal elf]

Arwen, most definitely. Although I do "feel a great swell of pity" for Eowyn. Arwen and Aragorn were meant for each other, classic Beren and Luthien. Besides, Eowyn hooked up with Faramir, which made me happy since I loved them both. Faramir was just what Eowyn needed. Remember from the books? Eowyn didn't really love Aragorn, she just thought she did. What she really wanted was someone noble and kingly to keep her away from all the evil and bad rabble (I can't find the exact quote) in the world. Besides, we wouldn't want Faramir to be lonely, no would we?

[Gorwingel]

Arwen is better for Aragorn<P>And besides Eowyn is going to be fine, but they better make Faramir a nicer person, because then I will feel very sorry for her.

[PippinSqueak]

EOWYN EOWYN EOWYN!!! Arwen's role goes like this: kiss Aragorn, pine for Aragorn, dream about Aragorn, and cry over Aragorn. I'm all for love stories..but Eowyn is way more noble than Arwen, elf or no. She kicks butt, defeats the Witch King and actually HELPS Frodo on his journey. So i say, who needs beauty(Arwen) when you've got brains(Eowyn)? Conclusion: Eowyn is way better than <I>Arwen</I> ::holds nose in disgust::

[Faye Took]

Argh, I couldn't say. The fact that both Eowyn and Aragorn are mortal would be good, but Arwen and Aragorn are mean't for eachother! So its kind of iffy with me. But if I just HAD to choose, I suppose Aragorn and Arwen would be better. After all Eowyn does marry Faramir.

[the mortal elf]

Pippinsqueak! How can you say such a thing! It seems like you're basing all your arguments on the movies. And Arwen gave Frodo her pendant, giving him her place on the ship to Valinor. You're telling me that's not helping him on the quest? There is still aftermath...

[Arwen Evenstar the Fair]

ARWEN MOST DENFINITLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm with The Mortal Elf, Arathiriel and Gorwingel!!!

[BethoHOG]

Arwen is cooler than Eowyn.

[Alex Chamois]

I'd agree with the idea that Arwen is some sort of epitome of femenine beauty and grace, while Eowyn is a bolder woman of action. That's not from the films - which, as you recall, depicted Arwen with a sword.<P>If your question had been which is better for Arwen, I would have to match Aragorn and Eowyn, but as far as Aragorn is concerned, Arwen is the better choice. The "blood of Numenor" and King of Gondor deserves no less than an immortal, especially one prepared to make such sacrifices for him. Can you picture Eowyn making the kind of compromises that Arwen did?

[doug*platypus]

"No Regrets" is my policy. I think Arwen would be better for Aragorn, firstly because he loves her, and secondly because he would regret not having chosen the Elf-Princess, as she would leave Middle-Earth and always be a memory of what could have been. I don't think he'd ever regret taking Arwen over Eowyn, especially since Eowyn ends up happy with his buddy Faramir.

[ambi]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> EOWYN EOWYN EOWYN!!! Arwen's role goes like this: kiss Aragorn, pine for Aragorn, dream about Aragorn, and cry over Aragorn. I'm all for love stories..but Eowyn is way more noble than Arwen, elf or no. She kicks butt, defeats the Witch King and actually HELPS Frodo on his journey. So i say, who needs beauty(Arwen) when you've got brains(Eowyn)? Conclusion: Eowyn is way better than Arwen ::holds nose in disgust:: <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ha ha ha How about forsaking immortality in the undying lands for grief and death?

[Frieda]

Honestly Eowyn is my favorite female character in Lord of the Rings....but I do think Arwen is better for Aragorn than her.

[Arien]

I prefer Arwen, probably because she has a strong and beautiful side, and Eowyn just has her strong side,( not that she dosn't have a beautiful side we just havnt seen it yet), yes so I prefer Arwen.

[Artalwen]

I say Arwen also....people may look at a comparision of Arwen and Eowyn, thinking Arwen could resemble an ethereal love, since she is elven, and Eowyn is something real he can love....but Arwen just seems like a better choice.

[Barodir]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> they better make Faramir a nicer person, because then I will feel very sorry for her.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>They did at the end of TTT, so now it will be all happy at the end of RotK

[Manardariel]

Well OF COURSE Arwen. Aragorn is not a normal human, he shoudn´t get a human, normal wife. Of course, Eowyn isn´t normal. But she´s the kind of person you can identify with. <BR>We all have been dreaming of a life we can´t have because of something that isn´t even our fault. We all have broken rules to do what we really wanted. That makes Eowyn someone who isn´t all that strange and unknown to you. <BR>And Faramir is the same. We all have wanted our parent´s love and affection. We all have sufferd if they let us know they loved another more. Eowyns and Faramirs feelings aren´t comletely new to us, that´s what makes us close to them.<P>And then there´s Aragorn. Do you know how a hero feels? And if you do, have you ever felt so? Always shining, savind-the-day-ish? And how about Arwen? Have you given up immortality for your love? Do you know how it feels to do so? I´m sure some of us have lost something essential to the them for the one they love, but it´s not something that happens all the time. And anyway, how does it feel to be elven??<BR>I think you get my point.

[Orual]

It's been suggested before that Éowyn loves Aragorn for what he can give her, not necessarily for who he is. Arwen loves him for who he is, totally, and without reservation. She's willing to give up her immortality for this man, so she must love him completely. I think as well that Éowyn and Faramir are perfect for each other. Their personalities were both outside the accepted norm--Faramir was more thoughtful and reserved, and less of a warrior than was expected of him, and the opposite was true for Éowyn. Matches made in heaven...::sighs romantically::<P>~*~Orual~*~

[Lady Of Light]

I am totally conflicted over this.... Arwen is a bit of a nothing in the books. She just loves Aragorn, and even in the apendices it dosn't really tell why. I write fantasy, and I just can't buy the botched love story where there is little to no background. I don't believe Eowyn is right either. Though I think she is REALLY neat and brave, I just think that faramir would be better for her. She loves adventure and honor, and if she married Aragorn she wouldn't be able to "get out of the house" as the queen. I think that she ended up perfectly with Faramir, though I do feel sorry that her heart was broken over Aragorn. Final verdict- I think Aragorn shouldn't have married, but I can live with Arwen.

[Manardariel]

Yeah, but if he wouldn´t have married, what would have become out of the House of Isildur. He was the last of the house, he needed an heir to continue the line.

[dunedain_aragorn]

OOOOH! Here is my kinda topic! Eowyn is the best female character, and I think Aragorn and her are just a match made in heaven!

[Manardariel]

No freakin´ way. Even if Arwen had sailed to the undieing lands, Aragorn lost his heart to her. There was no way some human could come along and get it back,<BR>Don´t get me wrong. I adore Eowyn. She ,next to Sam, is the one that deserved a happy-Ending badly. That´s why I wouldn´t want her to marry Aragorn. Don´t you see? He´s been loving am <B>elven maiden</B> for almost his whole life. And not any old elf, a direct descendant of Luthien and almost as pretty. Do you think a shieldmaiden could have pleased him? I´m sorry to say, but I think not. Aragorn would have let her feel every single day that she <I>isn´t Arwen</I>. He would have tortured her, even if he didn´t mean to. <P>If you like discussing this, dunedain_aragorn, be sure to visit the "Matchmaker" thread in the Books. See you there!

[Kirsanne_Tolebrass]

I think Aragorn should have gone with Eowyn, but that's just my thought, and me best friend's.

[Nieninque]

I agree with Lady of Light about the books... but I can't really decide. Using both the books and the movies as references, I'll state my indecision:<P>Arwen is Aragorn's driving force. She loves him completely and without reservation, and is willing to give up her immortality, her father, and her people just to be with Aragorn.<P>Eowyn is a fighter. She's down-to-earth, smart, courageous... she <I>does</I> stuff, whereas Arwen sits around looking pretty (in the books, mind you). Plus she gets more screen and page time with Aragorn, whereas Arwen has a paragraph devoted to her in FotR('whoop-dee-do'). I also agree with Manardariel in that Eowyn would always feel like she was battling Arwen's memory.<P>See my plight? How could I ever decide for poor Aragorn?

[Frwek]

definatly Arwen....she's right for Aragorn...

[MallornLeaf]

Beside the fact that Arwen is better for Aragorn in every way, shouldn't we trust the creator of Middle Earth? I think we shouldn't debate Tolkien's decisions concerning the characters he created.<P>If you think otherwise, go ahead and write your own book!

[dunedain_aragorn]

hey hey, i only like this topic b/c my friend and i have been fighting about it for a loooong time. plus, if aragorn loves arwen, i m saying if aragorn never met arwen, he would love eowyn. i m all for arwen, i just kinda like eowyn better.

[Rosegirl8745]

I definitely think that Aragorn should stay with Arwen. After all, Arwen gave up her immortality for him! It would be selfish and un-caring of Aragorn if he merely forgot about Arwen's love for him and rode off with Eowyn...<BR>I do want Eowyn to find love and happiness, and she does; I just hope that the movie tells that whole story.<BR>Sorry if I spoiled anything for anyone who hasn't read the books

[Haldir]

I think Eowyn would make a better choise for<BR>Aragorn (or anybody) because of the following<BR>reasons:<P>1) Eowyn is human, just like Aragorn, Arwen<BR>is an Elf, she needs to be immortal, she needs<BR>to go to Valinor (un-dying lands) with the<BR>rest of the Elves.<P>2) Eowyn is close to the king of Rohan, than<BR>Aragorn can take over Rohan or merge it with<BR>Gondor after the wedding, that makes much more<BR>sense than to merge it with Rivendell, what<BR>sane Elf would serve a human king ?<P>3) Eowyn is just much hotter than Arwen, at<BR>least I think that Miranda is hotter than Liv.

[Manardariel]

Ok, Haldir those are all good points, but not reasons. <BR>1) Who said Arwen <I>needs</I> to got to Valinor. What she "needs" what she wants is in Middle- Earth: Love, Aragorn, their future. I think,even if Arwen would have gone to Valinor, she wouldn´t have forgotten Aragorn, nor would she have been happy there. Amd we´ve seen it before that Human/Elf can Work.... Luthien/Beren, Idril/Tuor were all happy with what they chose.<P>2)Um, well, if he would take over Rohan, he´d be in DEEP TROBLE. He couldn´t have done that. Look, Rohan was a gift, you can´t just take it back. Besides, he wouldn´t have survived the War of the Ring without Rohan- Eomer, Theoden etc. It´s not exactly nice to "reward" the dudes tht help you get your thrown by taking their country away, is it?<P>3) WAY NOT!!

[Daewen]

I think that Eowyn would be better BUT I don't think Aragorn deserves her if he can't see that she's so much cooler than Arwen.

[ruby_gardener]

I say Arwen! I dont think that Aragorn needs a wild horse lady to drive him crazy. I think Arwen is his rock. He needs someone in his life that is stable and Arwen being an Elf and never changing works.

[JRRTolkienWasAGenius]

I like Eowyn way better than Arwen, and if Aragorn married Eowyn the story would have a happier ending (at least for Elrond). However, Aragorn being the nearly elven human he is, it does work out better for him to marry Arwen. Besides, Eowyn and Faramir are such a perfect fit (although I am talking about the book Faramir, not the slightly distorted TTT version)

[Merri]

I think Eowyn.<P>Don't get me wrong, I like Arwen plenty, but I just think she's a little too 'museish' for Aragorn, if you see what I mean. Eowyn seems a lot more earthy, and a lot more like Aragorn's type than Arwen . . . Arwen's just too . . . well, airy, too ethereal. I'd prefer seeing him get together with Eowyn.

[Arwen the Evenstar]

Aragorn loves Arwen, so regardless of who we think based on character and whatnot, who he loves is who is best for him. And that's Arwen. Perhaps he's attracted to her frailness. She nurtures the softer side of her. Eowyn is bold. Whatever the reason, he loves Arwen. End of story.

[Arwen the Evenstar]

Plus I look a lot like her! lol

[Aerin]

I think i am content in the way that the book ended because, well as we all know Tolkien knows best (almost always). I myself am a huge Eowyn fan because, I'm not really so thrilled about Arwen getting everywhere on her looks, luck for being of royal elvish lineage, even tho she would give up her immortality for him. I do realize she is a respectable figure but just not for things that count to me. Of course its things that count in Aragorn's book that matter. <BR>I mean seriously, in the book there was just about nothing with her in it and i dislike how they portrayed her in the movies as a warrior as well as an elven maiden, just seems to take more away from Eowyn.<BR>I do also figure that it is important that it shows how dreams and perfect love situations dont always come true. There just would be less of a realistic feel about it all if Eowyn ended up with Aragorn. And it goes to show that we need to find our equals when it comes to love. Just as Aragorn and Arwen are of long royal lineage and can relate in that aspect, Eowyn and Faramir seem to be able to connect... Eowyn is somewhat pitied by aragorn and rejected as compared to arwen... Famamir is the younger brother to the heir, boromir, who is favored over him and he is downcast because of his love for 'wizards and such'... and well he appreciates eowyn for who she is. If aragorn cant see how great of a person she is, she deserves better.

[Minyaharmawen]

I'm so sorry but If i was aragorn I would totaly go with Eowyn. EOWYN is so much better. also based on the movie i think Liv looks like a rabit...so that may not help my thinking . But aside from that It's not like we can change anything tolkine is a genius and thats how he wrote it and face it...you can't change the past.<BR>----------------------<BR>It isn't becomming to fish for complements ~Alanna <BR>~MINY

[Ainahithiel of Mirkwood]

okay, since the movies and the books are ENTIRELY Different, I made two different answers:<P>book: Arwen. It just fits more don't you think? Aragorn's a roamer,(who's also rather old) and he's all kingly. Arwen's this stay at home, PRINCESS. The're perfect. Opposites attrack anyway. And if this makes no sense, I'm sorry. it's been a very long day<P>Movie: Eowyn. I'm sorry so so sorry. But... Arwen's such a wimpy character. OH!!! I have a sword! Oh I'm liv tyler and since I have a three movie contract, we'll just add this little bit with me leaving Middle Earth, just to confuse everyone. At least Eowyn is SOMETHING like the book. but also, Eowyn seems more....Viggo Mortensen material...<P>So SOrry<P>School is Mordor.

[Angel of the earth]

I would have to say Arwen, because i think they are meant to be together. But the movie is so misleading! (about her!)<BR> But in the movie i think Eowyn seems to be more Aragorn's type, but i don't have a reason for that! null

[Sapphire_Flame]

Eowyn, definately. I mean, in the books, the whole Arwen/Aragorn thing is really well done (naturally!), you hear about it just enough so you remember it, and know what the two mean to each other, but you don't get drowned in mushy fluff romance scenes! The movie, I think, overdid Arwen's part a bit, sticking her in where she wasn't necessarily needed. And she was such a priss!!! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Arwen's role goes like this: kiss Aragorn, pine for Aragorn, dream about Aragorn, and cry over Aragorn.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thank you for that remark, PippinSqueak! So, I guess in the Books I would agree with Aragorn and Arwen, but in the movie, it should have been Aragorn and Eowyn.<P>~*~Sapphire_Flame

[Nostie]

ahh...kinda hard to decide..<BR>personally i like Eowyn better...Arwen just sits back and waits, cries ...About Luthien and Beren, Luthien goes with Beren all the way to Mordor to get a Silmaril from Morgoth!! how bout Arwen? Loves daddy too much to get out of her home and help her lover?? And then when Aragorn finishes his job and becomes King, she comes to marry him. Now Eowyn, she goes and actually fights in war. (Although I am happy for her and Faramir at the end) i still think aragorn should go for Eowyn...

[Deiagorn]

Eowyn, she's been through more then Arwen, besides, no one wants to see Liv Tyler die of old age right?<BR>Anyway, Arwen will find some kind of Elf... HOWEVER, I think Faramir needs some woman... maybe Shelob? lol, i dunno, it works out well anyway..

[maikafanawen]

Well ... as far as true love goes: Arwen. It's really romantic that Arwen loves Aragorn but she really belongs with her people and she could probably find one of her own kind to fall in love with. She shouldnt' replay the Luthien-Beren role, it's too sad. But then I can't see Aragorn with anyone but Arwen, so I'd have to say Arwen. <P>Eowyn should have married Theodred. :\ It's going to be quite a shock to the movie-goers when in ROTK, beautiful, faithful, Rohan Warrior-Woman ends up with the [framed] Gondorian Ranger. (I am very tight-lipped about the butchering of Faramir's character, but that's for another thread ... err ...) I don't know how they (the scriptwriters) are going to 'fix' Faramir's character but they had better do something about it!!

[Lily Ahern]

I love the story of Aragorn and Arwen . And I think Eowyn rocks I mean she can fight she has brains and she can stand up for herself.<BR>But I think that Arwen is soooo much better for Aragorn because for one reason, Arwen is millenia old, and Eowyn is only 20 ish. Since Aragorn is 80+ they have the whole "I'm not ageing thing" going for them...kinda. But it's sort of difficult because Arwen is elf kind and she will live for milliniums but Aragorn is mortal and even though he ages slowly I think she would out live him![QUOTE] let it be a light for you when all others go out (aladriel)

[Moraine]

Arwen. Theres no real question. As Lily Ahern has already stated Arwen is an Elven maiden, BUT, she is the only one for Aragorn.<BR>And here are my reasons:<BR> No.1 Arwen and Aragorn are, as Arwen herself put it "kin from afar". They are the "product of the only other two inter race marraiges. The first one was between Luthien Tinuviel and Beren Erchamion and the second was between Idril Celebrindal and Tour. Arwens granfather was Earendil, son of Tour & Idril and her grandmother was Elwing, daughter of Dior, son of Luthien and Beren. When Arwen and Aragorn wedded, they brought together the two branches of the same tree as it were.<BR> No.2 Who would Faramir marry if not Eowyn? In my opinion, they are perfect for each other.<BR> No.3 Arwen and Aragorn would be carefull to preserve the High Elven traditions, as far as Kingship went, and they also are both long of life. Therfore, Aragorn who is approx. 80+ in the FotR, could not marry Eowyn, who is at LEAST 40 years younger than him. (OK, admittadly, Arwen is millenia old, but anyway...).<P>Therefore, in my opinion, who else but Arwen could marry Aragorn? (And don't say Eowyn!)

[Cibbwin]

I like the character Eowyn better, mainly because I love strong women so much. However, I'm worried for Arwen when Aragorn dies. The 2nd movie DID put that into a shocking perspective.

[elven maiden Earwen]

eowyn is mortal like aragorn but arwen and aragorn love each other a lot so in a way you can say both of them are good for him

[ViggoFan]

I say Arwen, but I like Eowyn's character a lot. <BR>

[mylady]

Personally, I would say Éowyn, who has always been my favourite character. However, I realise the epic reasons for Arwen and Aragorn to unite. I have written more extensively about this in a recently posted thread that would be too long for this particular discussion.<P>Did you know that Aragorn was originally meant to marry Éowyn? Until the last but one draft of LotR, Tolkien had Aragorn and Éowyn as a couple. However, he then conceived the idea of reuniting the houses of Isildur and ... Éarandil? I think that was the name ... , and voilà: Arwen. Maybe this is the reason that the Arwen character feels a little undeveloped, while the tension between Éowyn and Aragorn is palpable.<P>I always found Arwen rather boring. As a previous poster beautifully observed, her only occupation seems to be loving Aragorn. Oh, and <I>sowing</I>. She lacks initiative and integrity. Éowyn, on the other hand, is courageous, determined, and interesting. Her conflicted character is fascinating, and Aragorn, I dare say, is obviously drawn to her in some manner or the other. I think she is a challenge to him, and that cannot be said of Arwen. This is perhaps made more evident in the film than in the novel. <P>As to the personalities of the characters, I cannot help but think that Éowyn, who has experienced war and conflict, would understand him, an ex-ranger, better. Arwen, although very old and experienced, comes across as rather spoiled and over-protected, especially in the films. We are told that she is very wise, but she does not give that impression herself. Having her present at the council in Rivendell, speaking her mind, would have made her much more interesting, but I guess this was too non-Tolkien for the film makers to include it. <P>I am sorry, but as long as Arwen is who she is, I just cannot help being a bit provoked by her.

[Eressië Ailin]

EOWYN ALL THE WAY!!!! I mean, what did Arwen ever do for Aragorn?!?! Arwen was just born a princess, but Eowyn is soo Aragorn's type!!!

[Orofaniel]

I would say that Arwen is the best woman for Aragorn. I like her best in the movie and in the book. I like Eowyn to, but I think that she is the right woman for Faramir.

[Carlas]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Eowyn should have married Theodred <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The only problem is that they're cousins!

[Frodo 007]

Arwen is so much better for Aragorn than Eowyn!!!Those two have quite alot of history, while Eowyn & Aragorn have none

[Tinuviel of Denton]

Carlas, that actually was quite common in royal houses. It was to keep the throne in the bloodline.<P>Has anyone considered that Eowyn would have died of old age long before Aragorn did? Think about it. He's (mostly) Numenorean and they lived for a very long time by normal standards. In the beginning of FotR, Aragorn is 89. No, seriously. Add it up. Yes, it's sad, and yes, Arwen might have found someone else, but she hadn't in the hundreds of years she'd already been alive. Aragorn and Arwen were meant for each other. (BTW, thank you for mentioning Luthien's quest to help Beren. She rescued him, then they got the Silmaril.)

[Gimli stonesheild]

I think that Eowyn would be the better choice becaues of many reasons<BR>-She could kick serouis orc butt<BR>-If Aragorn wanted to still be a ranger he and Eowyn could rome together and not need to carry around a 5 tone makeup and wardrobe bag, pluse servents or advisors and any other crap that Arwen would need.<BR>-she is mortal and live just as long a Aragorn then die as he dose.<BR>-she can fight<BR>i can go on for a nother ten pages, but i won't <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sleep! I feel the need of it. Yet my axe is restless in my hand. Give me a row of orc-necks and room to swing and all weariness will fall from me!"

[Arwen Eruantale]

Arwen. I don't know why, but I just like her. Plus, I'm sure that just about everything that could be said about that story has already been written here somewhere. My only point for her is that she always loved, <I>only</I> Aragorn. Even before when he was just that twenty year old Estel, walking and singing contentedly in Rivendell. She loved him even more when he became the "somewhat grim to look upon" Strider... <P>I do love Eowyn. In fact, I am probably more like her than I am Arwen. But not for Aragorn, she didn't really love <I>Aragorn</I>, she wanted the glory and honour that was to be his. So she <I>thought</I> she loved him. <BR>I don't think it was in a really selfish or self-centered way, but she lived in turmoil for who knows how long with Grima around in Rohan and probably watched a lot of good men die because of him. I think she would have liked to change things a bit for her people, and being an image of honour and power would certainly have helped. She and Faramir were truely meant for eachother anyway...<P>Okay, hope all that made sense, I am so tired right now. Afraid of what I might find tomorrow...

[Genevieve]

This is really a hard decision for me. I really think Arwen and Aragorn are right for eachother, mostly because they love eachother so deeply and I don't think that could be broken. Although I do think Arwen could've been a stronger character, I'm not really that bothered by it. <P> On the other hand, Eowyn is really stong and would be a good match for tough Aragorn. But if Eowyn and Aragorn did wed, Arwen would be heartbroken. And Aragorn would probably never get over his love for Arwen. So I think it was right that Arwen and Aragorn wedded. <P> Hope haven't repeated TOOO much of what other people said .<P>toodles

[Elentári]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>In the beginning of FotR, Aragorn is 89. No, seriously. Add it up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I did, and it came up as 87 ....oh well.<P>I think Arwen definately in the book, for uniting the lines and all that, but I really didn't like the way they portrayed her in the film. I liked Éowyn in the film a lot more than I did in the book, but hey.<P>And I was just wondering...you know in the Extended version (I can't remember if it was in the theatrical version) Aragorn speaks to Galadriel and says 'I would have her leave these shores...' etc etc, well I swear he was nothing like so considerate in the book. He never said anything of the sort. In the book he was saying something to the effect of 'You know all of my desire, but it is not for you to give it to me' Or something. And I swear in the book he was much more aloof and commanding. I mean come on, he could even argue with Gandalf! Frodo couldn't do that. And Aragorn never faltered when it came to the Paths of the Dead, but there's a movie still which shows Legolas saying he hasn't failed on his quest of the Paths of the Dead. grrrrrrr oh well.