If you could direct The Silmarillion... [Archive] - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

doug*platypus

01-17-2003, 08:23 PM

Great question! First thing I'd do would be to reemploy all the brilliant wardrobe, costume, makeup people from LOTR, especially the craftsmen who made the weapons and armour. I think the most important thing about the First Age is the magnificence and splendour of all the elven armies. Everything of theirs should look superb.I'd include the Ainulindale and the Valaquenta, but I think I'd probably leave out some of the smaller stories such as Eöl, some of Túrin and Tuor's exploits, and focus on the elf princes, especially the friction between the Fëanorians and the others. The main plot would of course be the quest for the Silmarils. Man, it would be a long movie. I might break it up into two. I think I'd leave out the downfall of Númenor, the only part of Númenor I'd show would be the Valar rewarding men with the island, and refer to its names, particularly Atalantë. And the very last thing I'd show would be Celebrimbor crafting the Rings of Power, with nasty old Sauron lurking in the background smiling.

VercingetoriX

01-18-2003, 07:21 AM

First off, I think that it would be virtually impossible to do the sil justice in a movie. It would push massive to the limit with the battles...man! It would be far longer than any casual viewer would like to see and therefore could not be done. I would though, love to see the last stand of the house of hador for example, of the fights with Glorfindel/balrog, Ecthelion/gothmog or maybe Fingolfin/Melkor. Also, the issuing forth of the host of Gondolin would be incredible! But not to forget the smaller stories and esp the silmarils.

Jurion

01-18-2003, 07:55 AM

First, I think that a movie of the Silmarillion would be nearly impossible to make.Second, if it ever was attempted, I think that it should focus on the Elves, starting at their waking at Lake Cuivienen, the Great Journey, all the way to the War of Wrath. But the problem would lie in that while focusing on the Elves, you are neglecting the Humans and thus have to incorporate the heritage of Earendil somewhere in the movie.Third, I think that the movie should always follow the book, not something similar to what Peter Jackson did with Faramir in TTT.

the real findorfin

01-18-2003, 01:02 PM

Well, a film would be amazing but there isn't enough dialogue in the book to make it properly. So, someone would have to make it up, which is not always good! Plus, only tolkienites would go and see it probably.Personally, I think a documentary would be cool, which would be able to span all of the age and have an overview. They could even have those maps with moving arrows, etc. This would show all the movemtns of the men and the armies movements from thier homes toward Angband. It sounds like a ten-parter thing that the History Channel would have, maybe? I WISH!!

HCIsland

01-18-2003, 02:56 PM

What an absolutely cool idea to film it as a historical documentary. You could film scenes as if they were reenactments in a real documentary. You could make it a series. Likely completely impractical, but a really cool idea.H.C.

doug*platypus

01-18-2003, 09:32 PM

I like Jurion's comments on focussing on the Elves. After all, the First Age really does belong to them. Men are important players, but only in relation to the elves. I can't see anything wrong in focussing on them, especially as LOTR was supposed to be the coming of the time of men (until PJ's Helm's Deep debacle). <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> there isn't enough dialogue in the book <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's the major stumbling block. You'd have to add a lot of dialogue and character interaction to make it watchable. But if it was done carefully, not even Tolkien purists would have a problem with it. I think everyone wishes The Silmarillion was longer and more readable, filled out as it were. You wouldn't have to add romance, because of Lúthien and also of the weird relationships between Túrin, Gwindor, Finduilas and Nienor. The biggest problem is that just as soon as you get attached to a character, they get killed!I'm really starting to think that it's possible, though. Thanks for keeping this up, Teal, and keep posting, everyone!!

Mattius

01-20-2003, 03:43 AM

What about who you would want to play the characters? I think that the Valar would obviously be computer generated but what about the elves and the men?

doug*platypus

01-20-2003, 04:52 AM

I think Gabriel Byrne would make a great Fëanor. Cate Blanchett with a cameo for Galadriel, somewhere in the background of Menegroth. And I would definitely try to limit characters that were entirely CG. Special effects, lighting and perspective could be used for the Valar. Apart from the Ainulindäle, of course - but maybe I'd use astronomy footage for that. MovieSauron wasn't CG, and he was great.Someone on <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001594" TARGET=_blank>this</A> thread suggested Jennifer Connelly for Arwen, maybe she would make a good Lúthien. I'd say Elle Macpherson, but her acting isn't really up to scratch. Hugh Jackman is tough and handsome enough to be Beren. Harrison Ford as Manwë?? Jason Isaac (bad guy from The Patriot and Lucius Malfoy from HP2) as Thingol. Of course, you'd hope to find some talented unknowns that weren't too easily recognised as most stars are. Heath Ledger (A Knight's Tale) as Húrin. Liam Neeson as Tuor. I'll repost in list form once I have some more ideas. I wouldn't cast anyone from the LOTR movies unless their character could realistically be placed there.

TealDude3

01-20-2003, 08:30 AM

I think the only part of the Silmarillion you could make into a film with dioluge and such would be Turin Turambar. That would make a sad movie, thou.

lord of dor-lomin

01-20-2003, 12:52 PM

Right on, Tealdude3, Turin's story seems to be the one with the most groundwork provided. Not only that, but I think it's the best, most dramatic story. If it was well written and directed, people would be crying through the whole movie. Can you get any more action and emotion anywhere else?to illustrate, here's the basic movie outline:(little sis dies, daddy captured, has to leave mommy, kills some bad guys, wrongfully accused, kills some bad guys, does bad things and feels bad, kills some more bad guys, mistakenly kills best friend, kills a bunch more bad guys, goes back home and mom is gone, kills a few more bad guys, loses Finduilas, kills some bad guys, marries sister, kills big dragon, siter/wife kills herself, he kills himself)The whole story is either extreme action or extreme emotion! With the right director, I honestly believe it would be a huge hit.Unfortunately, I have no clue who should play Turin. He would have to have a young pretty face, and also be tall, because it said that most people looking at Turin figured he was an elf from one of the great houses. And obviously, he'd have to be strong and athletic to make him believable as a great warrior.I have a couple friends who could play a couple parts. My friend Angela is tall (6'2"), blonde, and really hot, and she'd make a great Nienor (and she's done acting before, as well as advertising). And I have a buddy, he's known round here as the phantom, that would make a great Hurin (and, of course, you'd want to show Hurin's last stand even though the movie's primarily about Turin).

lord of dor-lomin

01-20-2003, 12:58 PM

I'd also like to see the flight of the Noldor done, starting with Melkor's release and ending sometime soon after Fingon rescues Maehdros. Who to play Feanor, though?

the phantom

01-20-2003, 01:02 PM

When I picture Feanor, he looks a lot like that mean emperor in Gladiator (Joquin Phoenix, something like that?).I also agree that the story of the children of Hurin would be the story to go with.(and I love your choice to play Hurin, lord of dor-lomin)

doug*platypus

01-21-2003, 06:03 AM

I think the major problem with only showing Túrin's story, is that the background would be so confusing to someone who hasn't read The Silmarillion. There would be too many cases of people wondering, "Who's that guy?" or "What do you mean someone owns the dragon? Where's he?" and eventually even "Where is this place, again?" It's possible that you could solve some of these in a short narrative at the start, as in FOTR.Here's my cast list so far (unfortunately they're all pretty big stars, such is the limit of my knowledge).Fëanor - Gabriel Byrne Fingolfin - Eric Stoltz Galadriel - Cate Blanchett Lúthien - Jennifer Connelly Beren - Hugh Jackman Thingol - Jason Isaac Húrin - Heath Ledger Tuor - Liam Neeson Manwë - Harrison Ford

the real findorfin

01-21-2003, 06:26 AM

Joaquin Phoenix would be a great Feanor, perfect. Strong yet scary. And I think he would be much better than Gabriel Byrne, he would be suited more to one of the Edain. Also, Heath Ledger is a great Hurin. And Beren allocation is good too.[ January 21, 2003: Message edited by: the real findorfin ]

The Saucepan Man

01-21-2003, 05:46 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> There would be too many cases of people wondering, "Who's that guy?" or "What do you mean someone owns the dragon? Where's he?" and eventually even "Where is this place, again?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>... so, just like reading the book, Mr Platypus It was suggested on another thread that LotR could have been done as an "anime" film. I am not sure that that would work for LotR, but I think that it would be perfect for the Silmarillion (from what I've read so far ...).

doug*platypus

01-22-2003, 05:07 AM

Mr. Pan, you're absolutely right - even in the book characters are born, fight orcs and die in little more than a matter of a chapter. I have, like many of us, read The Silmarillion times beyond count, and Unfinished Tales about four times. So, from my point of view at least I already know the characters in the book. My concern would be for people who went to see the movie without having seen the book. PJ and co. do an admirable job of introducing characters in the LOTR movies, and the challenge or the question is how to do it well in a possible Silmarillion movie.Turgon - Jude Law Varda - Jamie Lee Curtis

TealDude3

01-22-2003, 03:35 PM

Here is a perfect actor for the right character.Turin Turambar: Hayden Christensen (otherwise known as Episode II Anakin Skywalker) <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>He would have to have a young pretty face, and also be tall, because it said that most people looking at Turin figured he was an elf from one of the great houses. And obviously, he'd have to be strong and athletic to make him believable as a great warrior. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, Hayden Christensen has all of this things. It's also strange that both Turin and Anakin have the same end.

The Saucepan Man

01-22-2003, 06:03 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Varda - Jamie Lee Curtis <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> !!!! Why?[ January 22, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]

doug*platypus

01-24-2003, 04:55 AM

<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>looks like an elf<LI>is old<LI>is hot</UL>There's your Varda, right there. And to counter... why not? Anyone else in mind? Most of the other Valar would be minor parts, but I think that the casting of Manwë and Varda would need to be credible. Ulmo is hugely important as well, but would in my mind be hidden behind a lot of prosthetic makeup, like Gimli was.Great call on Túrin, by the way. Ep2 Anakin is sooo Turambar! Whiney, beaten about by fate, a gifted warrior, wants a lover he can't (or shouldn't) have, and with a large dose of dark side for good measure.

Thingol1000

01-24-2003, 06:07 AM

"Lúthien - Jennifer Connelly"Nooo, not hot/beutiful ENOUGH!!! (although she is pretty hot!)Sorry I have no idea yet who would be best but jenny ain't it. This one will take some thought.......

Thingol1000

01-24-2003, 06:15 AM

ok, got it Gessielle something..... that Victoria Secrets model... you all know who I'm talking about. Since this "movie" will never happen I figure the ability to act is not important. Anyway, THATS a Luthien capable of stopping Beren in his tracks!

Jurion

01-24-2003, 07:56 AM

I am wondering why the Silmarrilion should even be made into a movie. Movies about things you really like always seem te disappoint people, it's so hard to please everyone and everyone has a unique vision of what the Silm should look like. So I say don't make it into a movie and just use your imagination when reading the book.

The Saucepan Man

01-24-2003, 10:56 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> looks like an elf is old is hot <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, I can see what you mean on the first, and the second is quite evidently true, but I'm not with you on the third. But then again, I suppose tastes vary. I didn't like Cate Blanchett as Galadriel at first. I had always imagined here as more "Pre-Raphaelite" like the Lady of Shallott in the JW Waterhouse painting. But, the more I see of the films, the more she grows on me.But does Varda have to be old. Being one of the Valar, is she not ageless? Perhaps she could be portrayed by a young actress with sufficient skill to suggest a greater depth of years. I can't think of anyone suitable at present, but will have a think about it ...

Lalaith

01-24-2003, 12:22 PM

I would do it all in Elvish. With subtitles.

doug*platypus

01-25-2003, 06:22 AM

Wow! Freaky idea! That would be pretty cool. Entirely elvish would definitely give the movie a very different feel. Fair enough, too, since it is so different to The Lord of the Rings. Even if not in elvish, the dialogue should really be in a high style as much as possible, like movies such as Ben Hur or Antony and Cleopatra. The age it's set in is far removed from the War of the Ring, and it should definitely have a historical feel to it.I would have the armour looking less detailed than that of the Last Alliance elves from FOTR. If possible, I'd want it to look more beautiful, but more simple, to reflect the fact that it was only a faily recent invention, and had not had a chance to evolve fully yet. Dwarves seem to have had a monopoly on chainmail as well, so I'd like the movie to reflect that.On Varda, I think that the age of the actress would be very important. Older actresses, even if the age difference is only say 10 years, in general radiant a more calm and powerful screen presence. Older male actors as well, which is why it was so important to have actors like Ian McKellen and Christopher Lee cast for LOTR. Since Varda is, in my opinion, beautiful as well as ancient and wise, an actress of around Jamie Lee Curtis' age would be ideal. Maybe Sigourney Weaver, although I wouldn't really want Ripley the alien hunter as the queen of the gods. Maybe Michelle Pfeiffer? Incidentally, Pan Man, if you don't find Jamie Lee Curtis attractive you might be convinced if you watched True Lies again.

Garen LiLorian

01-25-2003, 07:00 AM

I think there is one way and one way only to bring the Silmarillion to the screen. A miniseries, like Band of Brothers. I imagine you could probably get PJ to executive produce it. (like Spielburg with BoB) I agree that the dialog would be difficult, but I came up with an interesting idea for working around it.I read somewhere (I don't remember where) that Mel Gibson's current project is a movie about the life of Jesus. Leaving aside for the moment thoughts about that, he made one decision that I thought was very interesting; the film will be entirely in Aramaic, with no subtitles. He hopes to tell the story simply through emotion and visuals.Now, this probably wouldn't work for the Silmarillion. The story is hard enough to follow when you can understand what people are saying. But it sort of bears thinking about. It'd solve the dialog problem, and it would force the thing to be staggeringly, amazingly visual. Tell the whole story simply with visual and audio, no language except un-subtitled Elvish.You could fill it out, without ****ing off Tolkien purists, simply by adding imagery. The end result would be more of a visual poem than a story. The acting would need to be absolutely incredible. You know, I think of it rather like that old movie, Legend. You know, the one with the really young Tom Cruise. The dialog is excreable, but the imagery is unbelievable. Take that one step further, and you have got something I'd watch on my Sunday nights!EDIT; Oh, dear God. (That's a prayer, not a blasphemy) Not Hayden Christensen. Please. Anything but the Great Whiner. If you don't believe he's a bad actor after Star Wars, watch "Life as a House." There's only so much I can take of a pretty, apparently intelligent, gifted boy acting like one of those starving kids you see in National Geographic. And it isn't very much. The boy looks like someone just killed his puppy, all the time. No matter what he's doing.[ January 25, 2003: Message edited by: Garen LiLorian ]

TealDude3

01-25-2003, 08:22 AM

Well that's the connection between him and Turin. I mean, I you think that you killed all your friends and nobody likes you, you'd feel down about it to.Sure, making a movie all in elvish and subtitles would be awesome. Elvish without subtitles may not work though. Sure, Tolkienites would know what was going on, but people just wanting to go see a movie would be clueless for 10-15 hours.

Sadbh

02-22-2003, 02:39 AM

I have to agree with what is said about the Story of Turin Turambar. If it had the right director, wow. That's all. The whole Silmarillion, in fact, with the right director would be the most irresistable movie ever! Personally though, if one was foolhardy enough to create a movie from the Silmarillion, a mini-series would better include all aspects of the book. I don't know, however, if there is anyone or anything that could make this story truely become 3-D on the big screen. But please, TealDude8, Garen's very right! If you're ever the director of the Silmarillion please don't let sniveler by Turin. Please?

Meela

02-22-2003, 08:08 AM

i'd be ecstatic. then after i'd finished jumping up and down and celebrating being given the best job in the world, i'd secure my position as a control freak and oversee every detail, letting nobody else have creative independence. i know one person who i'd cast, but i cant remeber her name. id also set about choosing my cameo role with great care and attention.

Inderjit Sanghera

02-22-2003, 08:34 AM

I'd be extremly happy to direct it. I'd probably have to spread it over 6 three hour movies though!I really wouldn't tinker about with the story much, but I'd include, but I'd have to have a scene where Turin and Finduilas admit to EACH OTHER that they love each other, preferablly just before Turin leaves for battle, before Nargothrond is sacked. Sorry, but I feel them two not not getting together was one of the biggest tragedies of the book. And I'd have to include this scene from HoME 11; Wanderings of Hurin: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"Eolwen! Eolwen!" Hurin cried and she rose and stumbled and he caught her in his arms "You come at last" she said "I have waited to long." "It was a dark road. I have come as I could" he answered "But you are late."she said "too late. They are lost." "I know" he said "but thou art not." "Almost", she said "I am spent utterly. I shall go with the sun. They are lost" She clutched at his cloak. " Little time is left" she said "If you know, tell me! How did she find him?" But Hurin did not answer and they did not speak again. The sun went down, Morwen sighed and clasped his hand and was still;and Hurin knew she had died.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>[ February 22, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ]

TealDude4

12-24-2003, 08:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Here is a perfect actor for the right character.Turin Turambar: Hayden Christensen (otherwise known as Episode II Anakin Skywalker) -Me one year ago <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Holy Crap was I ever wrong! Nobody probably remembers this, but I just had to get it off by back. And I'm also hoping to resurrect one of my old topics(fingers crossed). A little older and a little wiser, I think that the entire Silmarillion being made into a movie is nearly impossible unless your willing to use a lot of narration. Probably from Galadriel. I still think that the story of Turin Turambar should be filmed though. Or even the story of Feanor.[ 9:51 PM December 24, 2003: Message edited by: TealDude4 ]

Tar-Alcarin

12-24-2003, 10:10 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The biggest problem is that just as soon as you get attached to a character, they get killed! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Poor Beleg Any ways Morgoth voice could be done be Done by Alan Howard, the guy who voiced the ring. I would show some of the battles like the Battle of Flame or the Battle of Unnumbered Tears. Those are extremely important battles in ME. And the fall of Gondolin wuold be awsome. But it would have to be a ten parter to get all the information in it. Of course Luthien and Beren would be in there and Turin, poor beleg.

StarJewel

12-24-2003, 10:39 PM

Just musing on some *possible* actors for a Silmarillion movie:Luthien: Kiera Knightley Galadriel: Sarah Michelle Gellar Feanor: Stuart Townshend Beleg: Orlando BloomThe last one may seem odd, but every time I picture Beleg, I see a black-haired Legolas. I have no clue why.

Tar-Alcarin

12-24-2003, 10:43 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Galadriel: Sarah Michelle Gellar <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There is only one person who can only do Galadriel know that I have seen LoTR. Kate Blanchett. She is imbedded in my mind as her. they can use make up to make her look about 7000 years younger. as for luthien use kiera knightly. Eol can be that guy from that one movie who stared that one guy. Meaglin can be played by Jeff Foxworthy reciting all his red-neck jokes to idris, the love of his life and his cousin.