OK, I was justv watching the movie... [Archive] - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Anastasia

10-11-2002, 05:08 PM

...and have several questions. 1/ After the fellowship leaves Rivendell they pass a ruined tower place. What is it? 2/WHY OH WHY does Gandalf say "let the ring-bearer decide" ????? 3/If Gandalf's speciality is fire, then what is Saruman's? 4/What is the weird slimy stuff on the uruk-hai? Any answers would br greatly appreciated

DarkRose

10-11-2002, 06:32 PM

I'm not sure about your other questions, Anastasia, but I have an idea about number 2.2) Perhaps they did this to give Frodo another speaking part. In the movie, he doesn't really say much. Also, he seemed like he depended on the others alot, so perhaps PJ wanted to portray the responsibility of the weight of the ring that Frodo had to carry and the decisions he had to make.

Rose Cotton

10-11-2002, 06:40 PM

To expand on the answer to #2 in the book when they were deciding whether to go into the mines or not and Boromir is the one who says "What does the ring-bearer say?"

Knight of Gondor

10-11-2002, 07:42 PM

Question 1.) The Ruined town is Hollin.Question 2.) Gandalf allows Frodo to decide because he was biased; he didn't want to go in to the Mines because he feared the Shadow & Flame (Balrog) awoken by Durin's folk.3.) Perhaps the reason Gandalf's specialty is fire is because he is the bearer of Narya, the Ring of Fire. If not, then Saruman's specialty is his Voice. He can always seem wise to Men.4.) Slimy Stuff. It's doggoned-gross, but I figure that grotesque scene of "waking up" Lurtz is when he is being pulled out of an egg-type thing, maybe an embryonic sac? Whatever it is, it's pretty gross, and one of the worst parts of the movie.

Diamond18

10-11-2002, 10:50 PM

I agree with Knight of Gondor about Lurtz's birthing fluid.If any of you have seen "Mary Shelley's Frankenstein" starring Kenneth Brannagh and Robert De Niro, they did basically the same thing.Frankenstien bought...certain fluid...off of midwives because he determined that it would help his Creature to come alive just like it helps babies to grow. Or whatever. He put his Creature in a tank of it and sent electronic pulses to it...yadda yadda yadda.Tolkien never says how exactly Saruman went about breeding his army. But...ew...I don't want to think about this anymore.As to Gandalf letting Frodo decide: I figure it was just another way for PJ to speed things along. They discussed it a lot in the book...it was easier in the movie to simply say, "Let the Ring-bearer decide".

platinumclaw

10-11-2002, 11:32 PM

I shall help you answer your questions.1. Like Knight of Gondor said, it is the ruined town of Hollin. I have no information on this subject, and how it came to be.2. Although it is a bit corny, that line serves a purpose. Frodo is the Ringbearer, and Peter Jackson wants to let the audience know that this Ring is very important and that since he is the Ringbearer, he decides his fate.3. The Voice of Saruman. He might also have control over Caradhras.4. The slimy stuff? I think Peter Jackson wanted to say, 'Look, these are orcs and orcs are disgusting'.

Evenstar1

10-11-2002, 11:43 PM

I think the "slimy stuff" was, as Knight of Gondor and Diamond18 have said, embryonic fluid, but I think it's purpose was for PJ to show that Saruman created the Uruk hai, and he did it at about this point in the books. The Uruks were Saruman's critters, as opposed to orcs, who, we are told, are elves who were long-ago corrupted by Morgoth. But the slime-pods were PJ's depiction/interpretation. Not JRRT's words.

Diamond18

10-12-2002, 12:19 AM

The Uruk-hai weren't created by Saruman... "Evil cannot create." In the book Tolkien states that they were just a breed of Orcs that he got by mixing Orcs and Men. So basically he just further corrupted what Morgoth had already corrupted way back when he caught his first Elves. But they're all really Iluvatar's critters, sadly enough. It's like building a wall and having someone come along and spray obscene grafitti on it. It's still your wall, but it's ruined. So sad, so sad....

ilon

10-12-2002, 03:56 AM

Moviemakers do alter the 'script' to make it suitable for the movies. Storytelling in a book is different as it is in the movies. The director becomes the editor of the author. But i think they did their best in producing TLOTR for the screen.

Anastasia

10-12-2002, 06:28 AM

Yes, but they didnt explailn the situation about Moria to Frodo before asking him! That was really stupid i you ask me, because in the book it was more of an argument between Aragon and Gandalf, which brings me on to my next point: 5/Why did gandalf seem so eager to go to Moria in the book? He knew abot the Balrog, and isnt meeting a balrog worse than meeting a spy of Saruman? WHOAH, just realised... I'M A WIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow! [ October 12, 2002: Message edited by: Anastasia ]

hobbitlass

10-12-2002, 08:30 AM

I have nothing more to add except... Congratulations your wightness!

Diamond18

10-12-2002, 01:55 PM

ilon, I didn't say that I thought Peter Jackson changed anything about Saruman's creation of the Uruk-hai. He added things where Tolkien was silent, but in no way did PJ infer that Saruman made the Urak-hai.Gandalf told Elrond that Saruman was "breeding an army by crossing Orcs with Goblin-men."

elfling

10-12-2002, 08:49 PM

To the queation abouth Gandolf "wanting to go through Moria" even in the book he didn't "want" to go but he wasn't scared to go. He must have known that it was the only way to get them there. Isengard was too dangerous to go near and if they went to Minus Tireth(spelling?) then the ring would probably not make it out of there due to Borimir's desire to use it.( I'm sure his dad would have tried to use it,too) He knew,I'm sure what he had to face and felt it was the only way to go. He may ahve even known the outcome.

Durelin

10-15-2002, 05:16 PM

Hello! I know how you feel, its all so confusing! I can answer one. The one I especially dont get is "let the ringbearer decide" uh huh well Gandalf paid for that decision ...anyway 1)They are called the Eregion Hills! sorry I cant be more of a help! "We are the knights who say NI!"

Dwalin

10-15-2002, 05:29 PM

I think that although Gandalf knew that there was a Balrog in Moria, he thought it was dormant. He had no idea Pippin would be so bumbling and wake the Balrog up.

Anastasia

10-16-2002, 10:43 AM

Surely something so small as a stone dropping down a well wouldnt wake a huge Balrog up??? Unless it hit him square on the nose or something...

Dark-Caranthir

10-16-2002, 12:20 PM

I can't expand on what any of you have said except with this point; Sauruman didn't have any control over Caradhras, Khroa, when passing the mountain in question, Boromir says: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> "I wonder if this is a contrivance of the Enemy, They say in my land that He can govern the storms in the Mountains of Shadow that stand upon the borders of Mordor. He has strange powers and many allies." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So it may have been Sauron commanding the fell winds, or it could have been the mountain itself; <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> "Caradhras was called the Cruel," said Gimli, "long years ago, when rumour of Sauron had not been heard in these lands" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> "It was no ordinary storm. It is the ill will of Caradhras, he does not love Elves or Dwarves and that drift was laid to cut off our escape" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So Caradhras itself could have been an evil spirit.

Rose Cotton

10-17-2002, 02:01 PM

I always thought it was the mountain itself that was creating the storm, but in movies and stuff they always blame either Saruman or Sauron.In the book I remember that Gandalf thought they should go through Moria and Gimli was all for it. In the end I think they only went because of the wargs. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> uh huh well Gandalf paid for that decision <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>In the book I think Aragorn made a mean remark about that. Before they go through Moria he warns Gandalf that it is a bad idea. Then afterwards Aragorn says nothing short of "I told you so". He doesn't say those exact words but it's the same thing.\

Mintyztwin

10-18-2002, 06:43 PM

Hmm . . . I kinda assumed they "ruin" was the Elf dwelling. In the book (Sorry, can't remember the name) But I didn't think JRR described "ruins" I just thought it was a grassy field. Also, it made me Mad with Saruman commanding Carhadras!!!! The mountain did it!! It was the mountains fault!!!! (I always thought that was way cool in the book!) Okay. I'll be quiet!

TolkienGurl

10-25-2002, 01:19 PM

About the Balrog thing, I think Gandalf knew he would have to face it sooner or later. Debating with Aragorn (book) was a way of showing us that part of Gandalf did not want to deal with it. Who would? It's all part of the War of the Ring, and didn't it say somewhere that the War was Gandalf's greatest challenge? Did that make any sense?[ October 25, 2002: Message edited by: TolkienGurl ]

Arwen1858

10-25-2002, 02:15 PM

When I saw the movie, I had only read a few chapters of the book. My thoughts on why he said 'Let the ring-bearer decide' are as follows: I figured he said that because Frodo is the one who accepted the mission to destry the ring. It was his quest... not Gandalf's, or Aragorn's, or Boromir', or anyone else. They were along to help and protect Frodo, not tell him what to do. I thought it was Gandalf's way of respecting that. Arwen

TolkienGurl

10-25-2002, 02:24 PM

Good idea!

Knight of Gondor

10-25-2002, 08:07 PM

Plus, Frodo was already gaining more perception and knowledge than even HE knew, due to the Ring. Gandalf must have known that.

busybee

11-10-2002, 12:47 PM

Ok umm how about this....... Maybe, because Frodo didn't do much decision making before he decided to leave the fellowship he was always following what Gandalf or Aragorn said so maybe Gandalf didn't want Frodo to feel left out??? Also letting Frodo decide was like flipping a coin since they were arguing over how to go,because Frodo didn't know anything about either of the ways just that Saruman was on the way if they went to Minas Tirith......I mean Gandalf didn't tell him why they shouldn't go through Moria all Frodo heard about Moria were the good things that Gimli told him.......so it was like choosing between good and bad to him.

LePetitChoux

11-13-2002, 08:30 AM

I have a question. When Arwen is riding with Frodo, and the Nazgûl reaches out for him, and Frodo has some weird green stuff on him. What is it?

GreyIstar

11-13-2002, 09:47 AM

In the book the Wargs force the fellowship into the Mines of Moria. And the final decision of going into Moria is Frodo's. Jackson just to save time didn't have the whole debate that was in the book.As for tha Barlog, Gandalf says in so many words I don't have the exact quote: There are things in this world more powerful than I, and things in this world that I have yet to be tested against.I think he knew there was a good chance that he would face the Balrog and wasn't sure what would happen. He did know he was atleast close to matching the Balrog so I think he thought the risk was better than taking the Ring so close to Isengard where he was clearly no match for Saruman at this point.