The Blessed Realm

[Logan Evans]

Okl this has been just killing me forever! What actually happens to Frodo, Gandalf, and Bilbo in the end of Return Of The King??? Do they die, sail away, or something else? Because what I first pictured was that they died, and this was like some choach de bar off to take them to paradice. But, if you could tell me what is really going on, I could sleep at night!!!<BR>Thanks

[Luinsewiel]

Thats exactly what i thought when i first finished RotK! I was like wha? where'd they go?<P>They didn't die, that I can explain without confusing you or me completly. They went on the ship to the "undying lands" where they will supposedly live out their normal lives but I'm afraid you'll have to ask someone else what the undying lands are, Alas I am not learnéd enough to explain that well.<P>I hope I was somewhat of a help and someone more knowledgable explains it all to you properly.

[Joy]

From the <A HREF="http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/" TARGET=_blank>Encyclopedia of Arda </A><P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> name of Aman, or at least that part of it inhabited by the Valar, Maiar and Elves. The island of Tol Eressëa is several times identified as the easternmost of the Undying Lands, and, at the least, Valinor must also be included. <P>'Undying Lands' seems to be a name that originated among Men. The Númenóreans, especially, envied the seemingly endless life of those who lived in these regions. From the first, the Valar placed a Ban on the Men of Númenor, that they should not sail into the West from their island, or set foot on the shores of Aman. <P>Wise as the Valar were, though, they did not foresee the wiles of Sauron. This great Maia falsely persuaded the last King of Númenor, Ar-Pharazôn, that the ruler of the Undying Lands would be undying himself. Believing Sauron, Ar-Pharazôn assembled a great navy and sailed westward to make hopeless war on the Valar for the imagined prize of endless life. <P>The Valar could not permit this: Manwë called upon Ilúvatar, and the land of Númenor was destroyed and lost forever. The Undying Lands, which until that time had been part of the World, were removed forever from the reach of Mortal Men, though the Elves could still sail West and come there, if they would. <P>It is to the Undying Lands that the White Ship sails at the end of The Lord of the Rings. The Ring-bearers, Bilbo and Frodo, were the first mortal beings to set foot on the shores of the Undying Lands. Tolkien is careful to point out, though, that even in Aman, mortals remain mortal. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hope this helps. By the way, if you click on the link above, go to The index "U", then click on Undying Lands and look at the picture of Aman. I kind of looks like Ireland Just an interesting thought.<p>[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: Joy ]

[Daisy Sandybanks]

Well, I was going to say somthing on this, but, it seems as thoug everythin has allready been said...<BR>Ohwell, check out the appedixes in the back of the book, thy explain a lot of what happens the full story ends, very helpful.

[Kalla]

What I wonder is how this place helps them heal/regain their life back. I was also under the impression that they didn't really die, but that they sorta faded away...and I don't remember where I got that idea, so...lol, it could be wayyy off, and probably is. But if anyone knows the answer to that, I'd be appreciate of an answer.

[GreatWarg]

I was always quite sure they went to Valinor. Quote from the Silm "Where the ELdar King forever reins..." SO, I suppose that would mean they live forever there? And that's where Gimli and Legolas go, and other Elves too when they flee from ME.

[Joy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> From Kalla - What I wonder is how this place helps them heal/regain their life back. I was also under the impression that they didn't really die, but that they sorta faded away...and I don't remember where I got that idea, so...lol, it could be wayyy off, and probably is. But if anyone knows the answer to that, I'd be appreciate of an answer.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>As for the humans/hobbits who went to Valinor or the Undying Lands, they did die. They were healed because this is the place of the Valar/Ainu, the holy ones. There is some sort of healing virtue that passes to those who come to this land through the Valar.<P>As far as the fading away.. The elves fade in Arda or Middle Earth. They return to Valinor, also called Aman, for renewed life. They can be killed or die from woundedness of heart in ME, then go to the halls of Mandos where they are healed. But as for Frodo, Bilbo, Sam and Gimli (rumored), they stayed in Valinor for a time but then passed in the fashion of men and dwarves.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>From GreatWarg - I was always quite sure they went to Valinor. Quote from the Silm "Where the ELdar King forever reins..." SO, I suppose that would mean they live forever there? And that's where Gimli and Legolas go, and other Elves too when they flee from ME.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Gimli is the only dwarf to enter Valinor and that is only rumored, according to the Appendix in RotK. <P>Only the Elves(Eldar) are immortal. It is the gift of Iluvatar to men that they die. It is never mentioned, that I know of, where the Dwarves go when the pass on. I believe that I have heard or read somewhere that they return to the stone that they were created from.<P>While it is mentioned that "some mortals 'by some fate or grace or favour of the Valar.. had come to the lamplit quays of Avallónë..'" from Akallabêth. It is possible, then, that some unusually fortunate mortals had come to the Undying Lands at some point in the Third Age, before the Ring-bearers' ship at the Age's end. <P>There seems to be one interesting case.. Tuor, who is a man(Edain) of the house of Hador was a servant, a messenger, of Ulmo. He was sent to Turgon, King of Gondolin, and there married his daughter Idril. After the Fall of Gondolin, he dwelt at the Mouths of Sirion for a time, but later he built Eärrámë(a ship) and sailed into the West with Idril. <P>It seems that he was granted, by Eru, to be counted as one of the Eldar(Elves). This is one of the most interesting accounts, and the only one, that I have found of a mortal going to Valinor and receiving immortality.

[Daniel Telcontar]

Someone posted that Tolkien was careful to point out that mortals do not become immortal even if they live in Aman. But where does he point that out? And dwarves, when they die go to Aule, so if Gimli died, would that have altered anything, since he already was in Aman?

[Child of the 7th Age]

The statement about mortals dying in the West is from Tolkien's Letters:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Frodo was sent or allowed to pass over Sea to heal him--if that could be done, before he died. He would have eventually to 'pass away': no mortal could, or can, abide for ever on earth, or within Time. Letter 246, Sept. 1963<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>As far as dwarves go...... the Dwarves believed Aule (who had made them) would bring them to the Halls of Mandos, also called the houses of the dead, and that, in the end of Time, they would join the children of Iluvatar. This is a different part of Aman than where they would have lived which was more toward the east, so Gimli would still have to go there even if he had sailed with Legolas. Unlike men and Elves, however, the dwarves stayed in Mandos till the end. The halls were supposed to be in far Western Valinor on the shores of Ekkaia (the encircling sea). People there were supposed to sit and think about their lives. It was also called the Halls of Waiting.<P>sharon, the 7th age hobbit