Inconsistencies-I'm not grouchy, these are just so obvious after you see it 10 times

[LePetitChoux]

And heeeeeeeeere they are!<P>1.Are the mini-towers at Barad-Dûr caricatures of Sauron in his armour?<P>2. In the account of Isildur, he says that "Already the writing...begins to fade" and this is shown by the letters disappearing as he is holding It on the Battlefield, but surely <I>writing</I> wouldn't be his concern with A FIELD FULL OF VERRRY ANGRY ORCS RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM?<P>3.After Gandalf says "One Ring....bind them", we cut to a shot of Frodo pouring tea, and Gandalf continuing his speech. But tea takes a long time to boil...what did they do in between?<P>4.When Frodo says "What must I do?" We cut to him packing BEFORE Gandalf says "You must leave"...Hmm...Psychic! <P>What do you think?

[Diamond18]

Hmmm, I can't say I noticed the bit about the tea...but I always did wonder how Isildur could copy the Ring inscription verbatum after having seen it for the briefest moments on a battle field.<P>Well, I don't know if this is an inconsistency, but I always notice that part where Gandalf is telling Frodo to go to the Prancing Pony in Bree. He's rolling up a blanket as he says this, and then Frodo says, "Bree" and grabs the blanket, and flaps it so it comes unraveled, and then he shoves it into his pack in a mess. I laugh every time I see that.

[propagandalf]

Did yoo also notice that Bilbo reacted to his ‘confounded relatives‘s’ loud door-banging before the actual banging commenced? heheee. I don't think these are inconsistencies. I think they are manifestations of pj's twisted sense of humor.<P>I also found the dead uruk-hai-head-on-a stick extremely funny (TTT). The expression on its dead face was hilarious. tongue sticking out and everything. <P>^_^

[Manwe Sulimo]

Well, the Ring thing could be explained like this: the inscription remained as long as Sauron was touching it, or in fire. Meaning Sauron was really hot? (Sorry -- that was completely irrelevant). Maybe just the residue of Sauron's physical presence remained until Isildur had time to copy it down. Also, the Orcs probably threw down their weapons and surrendered like their descendents did at the Battle of the Morannon in the War of the Ring, when Sauron was destroyed.<P>EDIT: Okay, looking back, that "Sauron was hot" thing was in reference to the temperature. Get your collective heads out of the gutter. <p>[ January 26, 2003: Message edited by: Manwe Sulimo ]

[Balin999]

What the other people meant was that in the movie it isn't explained that Isildur looked at it when he was safe. Or I think it was something like that. IN the books you get the whole account about it, and in the movie they shortened it.<BR>Am I right?

[Liriodendron]

Heh heh! I quess I don't think! I just don't give little things like that too much thought. I'd go batty! I always marvel that Elrond doesn't just grad the ring and throw it, or push Isilder in the Crack of Doom, ring and all!

[Alaggaeriel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I always marvel that Elrond doesn't just grad the ring and throw it, or push Isilder in the Crack of Doom, ring and all! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Me too! But that would be an awfully short movie!

[Lupiane]

Just seen TTT for the fifth time today and here's one inconsistancy that caught my eye. If you watch closely when the Rohirrim attack the Uruk-hais, when the horse nearly tramples Pippin, his hands are unbound. Then, as Aragorn manages to recall what has happened, you see him escaping the horse's hooves, hands unbound, AND unbinding his hands a second later. Magic ropes?

[lord of dor-lomin]

I haven't read all the threads on bloopers in the first movie, so somebody's probably mentioned this before (cause it really sticks out), but when Boromir is on the ground dying, talking to Aragorn, every shot from behind Aragorn shows Boromir's hand on Aragorn's left shoulder, but in all the shots from the opposite point of view, Boromir's gloved hand is nowhere to be seen. I thought this was the biggest, most glaring mistake in the first movie.

[Balin999]

Hm. Usually I'm very good at detection bloopers and this kinda stuff, but I noticed that I didn't detect very much in the two LotR movies. Hm, I guess I'm too busy with loosing myself in the movie (and not in the music, Mr. Eminem!), when I watch it.<BR>That's why I don't see the Bloopers.<BR>And I never realized that Boromir-hand-thingy.

[LePetitChoux]

One more thing: When Gandalf rides up to Isengard, his horse is BROWN, but didn't he have Shadowfax by then?

[HCIsland]

He definately did not have Shadowfax at that time. He got Shadowfax from Theoden after escaping from Isengard. They got this right.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 1.Are the mini-towers at Barad-Dûr caricatures of Sauron in his armour? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You are noticing something that I am not here.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 2. In the account of Isildur, he says that "Already the writing...begins to fade" and this is shown by the letters disappearing as he is holding It on the Battlefield, but surely writing wouldn't be his concern with A FIELD FULL OF VERRRY ANGRY ORCS RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>He remembered what was written and knows the language. The scroll was written well after the battle in Minas Tirith.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>3.After Gandalf says "One Ring....bind them", we cut to a shot of Frodo pouring tea, and Gandalf continuing his speech. But tea takes a long time to boil...what did they do in between?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Is it that hard to imagine that there may have already been a hot pot by the stove when Gandalf came in? Besides, what do you want them to do? Extend the the dialogue for the sole purpose of watching water boil. That would be exciting. <P>Actually, if I remember the scene correctly, there is a cut implying a time delay here. They were in the living room and then in the kitchen. Obviously some time has gone by.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 4.When Frodo says "What must I do?" We cut to him packing BEFORE Gandalf says "You must leave"...Hmm...Psychic! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Nothing wrong with this. Just good editting. Makes the scene far more dynamic which is the idea, to lend some urgency to Frodo going. It's not meant to be taken this literally.<P>As for the unbound and then bound Pippin hands, that seems to be a mistake. I saw it too.<P>As for Boromir's moving hand, I've seen Fellowship numberous times (I'm certainly not counting) and never noticed this. I'll watch for it but it can't be that bad.<P>H.C.

[Lalaith]

In TTT, you can clearly see the roots of Orlando's shaved dark sideburns in many of the close-ups.

[the phantom]

Yes, the Boromir moving hand thing is what really stuck out to me. The first couple times I missed it because I was really caught up in the emotions and dialouge, but about the third or fourth time I was like "Dang, that's a major goof!".

[The Flame Of Anor]

not going to get started on the second movie's bloopers, but does anyone else think alot of these could have been caught simply by sitting and watching the movie strait through? Or getting someone off the street to watch it? Especially in the beggining of the second movie, my entire group, none who were looking for it, noticed the Bridge changes alot in the close-up.<P>Woops, got started, but anyway...

[lord of dor-lomin]

In other words, you noticed it because you weren't paying attention to the movie, right phantom? Just kidding!<P>In some ways, I wish you never would've pointed it out, because that's such a great scene and now whenever I watch it I can't concentrate on it (I invited you to my birthday party, and you repayed me by pointing out errors in my favorite movie!!).<p>[ January 27, 2003: Message edited by: lord of dor-lomin ]

[the phantom]

I WAS paying attention to the movie, lord of dor-lomin, I just noticed the error because my brain operates on many more levels than yours. <P>Another thing I thought was odd, and I saw a thread about this recently, when Gimli hits people with his axe it doesn't cut into them. It's like they got clubbed instead of axed.

[HCIsland]

As I've mentioned, a lot of these are not mistakes at all, and some are due to over active imaginations. eg: Gandalf's tennis shoes that was mentioned in another thread.<P>As for stuff like Boromir's moving hand, I strongly suspect this stuff happens in movies all the time. I've watched audio commentaries on some pretty big and highly acclaimed movies and often you'll get directors pointing out their own mistakes. It's hardly uncommon. These films are just put under an insane amount of scrutiny.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Especially in the beggining of the second movie, my entire group, none who were looking for it, noticed the Bridge changes alot in the close-up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have no idea what you are talking about here. Could you please elaborate?<P>H.C.

[Telephirion]

Some people have said that in the Bridge of Khazad-Dum sequence, once Gandalf smashes the bridge apart with his staff, in a series of shots the cracks in the bridge appear to be different. I can't say that this mistake affected my experience particularly!<BR>The most obvious mistakes I have noticed on the DVD are (1) in one shot the face of the man playing one of the Black Riders is fudged out with an off-black patch, and (2) when Frodo falls down the slope before the storm on Caradhras you can see the stockings the actor wears to secure the shoes to protect their feet from the cold.

[Diamond18]

Well, if we're going to talk about the most glaring and distracting errors, this one wins for me hands down:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Continuity: While the four hobbits (Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin) are at The Prancing Pony in Bree, Merry returns from the bar with a pint and Pippin takes off to get his own. When the angle changes to an over-head shot, Merry is no longer at the table and Pippin is suddenly back in place. This was obviously a shot that carried over from the previous scene (prior to Merry's return from the bar). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Coral]

Well, during Helms Deep Orlando Bloom runs into an orc...

[Tar-Palantir]

Also on the bridge of Khazad-dum - after the break happens it is plain that the edge is smooth, there are no handholds to grab onto anywhere, this is seen many times from multiple angles if you're looking for it. Then Gandalf falls and a monster hold appears. Tricksy wizards...

[HCIsland]

Okay, just watched. You guys are scary. <P>Alright, my turn.<P>In the special edition DVD they go through the Midgewater marshes. There's a shot where Pippin falls and you can see that his foot has come off at the heel.<P>The only reason I noticed this is because on the actors commentary, the folks that play the hobbits were talking about how misserable that scene was and how much trouble they were having keeping their feet on.<P>H.C.

[The Flame Of Anor]

Ya, the bridge looks like it was thrown in at the last minute to me (it is my favorite sceen, as u can probably geuss from my name)<BR>It is very, very smooth, then suddenly is crattered and a large crack appears. This was not true in FOTR.

[HCIsland]

I doubt it was thrown in at the last minute. Scenes like this one have to be well planned out.<P>They needed to have the crack there so that Ian McKellen could pull himself up enough to deliver the "fly you fools" line. The overhead shot of Gandalf being dragged to the edge is almost certainly a stuntman. Although a lot of that shot would be blue screen, the bridge (or at least the section he is standing on) is not. You can even see trails being left in the dirt by his fingers. There may have been a logistical safety concern of throwing down a stunt man on a bridge with a large crack in it.<P>H.C.

[The Flame Of Anor]

I assumed the Bridge scene was the old footage of gandalf from a different angle with a ditigal bridge. By 'last minute' i was speculating it was one of the final digital scenes. gandalf's falling from this angle looks digital to me... could be wrong.<BR>(Edit) The FOTR scene had none of these problems, so it cant be a safety thing.(edit)<p>[ January 28, 2003: Message edited by: The Flame Of Anor ]

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

Here are a few more mistakes in TTT:<BR>1.) In the scene where Gandalf and company arrives at The Golden Hall in Edoras and Gandalf prepares to end Saruman's hold on Theoden, Gandalf can be seen wearing the leaf brooch on his cloak, keeping it intact, like the rest of the now split up fellowship. But then the wizard discards the cloak to reveal his white robe as if nothing held it in place. <BR>2.)In the Gate of Mordor scene there are two cave trolls opening the gate. Yet we are told in Fellowship that sunlight turns trolls into stone. What's keeping the troll from turning in to a pair of interesting door stops for the Black Gate? <BR>3.) In the scene when the Rohirrim together with Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli are going to fight with the Wargs of Isengard, the horses of the Rohirrim are charging and over the hill where Legolas is shooting arrows at the Wargs. When Legolas' horse, Arod, approaches with Gimli upon him, observe the way Legolas mounts Arod. It is clearly impossible to execute this stunt despite him being an elf even. He grabs the left side of the reins with his left hand and hoists himself upon Arod. The stunt looks like it's shot with Legolas actually dismounting Arod but in the film it's played reversed. <BR>4.)There is a scene near the end of the battle for Helms Deep where a few remaining attackers enter the fort to be met by Theoden and his horsemen. Theoden comes very close to a wall of swords at the door, and one of them bounces off the top of his head. He shows no awareness of it and it leaves no mark. <BR>5.)When Sam dives on Frodo at the end in front of the Nazgul on the dragon, Frodo draws Sting and hold it to Sam's throat. Given that the other side of the river is taken by the orcs shouldn't sting be glowing? Also: Frodo and Sam had been captured by Boromir, so there is no apparent reason that Frodo would have his sword iin an easily accesible area.<BR>6.)There is a scene where Aragorn and Gimli borrow armor from the Rohirrim, and the chain mail Gimli tries on is way too big for him. This sequence is funny, but it doesn't make any sense, since all through Fellowship and Two Towers up to this point Gimli was wearing his own mail shirt, which fit him perfectly. Why does he suddenly need a new one - is his in the laundry or something?<BR>7.)When Aragorn is floating down the river after falling off the cliff, you would not expect his armour to float. <BR>8.)How could a falling Wizard catch up to the sword in midair that was dropped several seconds before he did? The wind dynamics simply wouldn't make this possible. <BR>9.)In the scene in the storeroom where Sam is suggesting Frodo use the Ring to escape, Frodo is initially sitting in front of a barrel. Then Faramir arrives and Frodo and Sam are now sitting on a cloak and there are no barrels in sight. <BR>10.)When Gandalf, Legolas, Aragorn and Gimli walk into Meduseld, Gandalf is seen arm in arm with Legolas, apparently leaning on the elf for support, but when the camera cuts away and returns, Gandalf is not in contact with Legolas, but they are arm in arm again for the next shot. <BR>11.)When Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli are chasing the Uruk-hai just before the Rohan riders appear, they run between two rocky outcrops over a ridge. Aragorn signals to hide, and almost at once the riders appear. Strangely Aragorn can hear Uruk-hai on foot 1 day's march away, but not a group of riders 30 seconds ride away. Legolas, famous for his eyesight, obviously forgot to have a look over the ridge where he might have spotted the riders. <BR>Some of these my friends found: but a few were found by me. Took a while!

[HCIsland]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The FOTR scene had none of these problems, so it cant be a safety thing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oops, now I'm the one who is confused. I thought the scene at the beginning of TTT had the same issue as the one from Fellowship. All my comments were in reference to Fellowship. I can't comment on TTT as I can't remember the scene in enough detail.<P>H.C.

[propagandalf]

applause for GaladrieloftheOlden <P>more questionable stuff:<P>When the fellowship entered Moria, why did Gimli go on and on about the hospitality of the dwarves when he should've noticed right away that corpses were lying everywhere. Was he in denial? Took him a while to react. (longer than the others). It's like that scene in Harry Potter where the kids entered the room of the giant 3 headed-doggie. The first thing they should've noticed was the HUGE doggie. They had time to chit-chat before reacting to the dog. In real life, when you enter a room full of corpses and/or 3-headed doggies, the first things you'll notice are the corpses and/or the 3 headed doggies. I guess film makers do this for dramatic purposes. I hate it when they do that. Fills my heart with rage.<P>Also, when Frodo and the hobbits were in Rivendell, did anyone notice that the height of the railing on the terrace was just perfect for a hobbit (and way too short for elves), so was the settee. An elf would trip on it. That would be fine if that specific section of Rivendell was built for hobbits. But no- when Frodo fiiinally notices Bilbo, we can see that the bench he was sitting on was too high for him- his legs were dangling.<P>Lastly, In TTT, when Haldir arrived at Helm’s Deep, Aragorn gave him a man-hug as oppose to Legolas’ elf-hug. Why didn’t he just pat Haldir’s shoulders the way Legolas did? That should’ve been his natural reaction, given the fact that he grew up with elves. The only excuse I could think of for Aragorn is that- upon realizing that the elves have come to their rescue, Aragorn, being a human (kind of), was overcome with emotion. Hence, the man-hug. Even so, is it inherent in human beings to hug when overcome by an extreme emotion such as the one Aragorn apparently felt? I don’t think so. Haldir was obviosly taken aback by Aragorn’s hug. You can tell by the expression on his face. (Either that or he thought Aragorn was smelly). <P><BR>Whooops. It wasn’t my intention to write an essay. Sorry. <P><BR>ps- what does it mean? that we're noticing all these minute details? hehe.<p>[ January 28, 2003: Message edited by: propagandalf ]

[Rose Cotton]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 1.) In the scene where Gandalf and company arrives at The Golden Hall in Edoras and Gandalf prepares to end Saruman's hold on Theoden, Gandalf can be seen wearing the leaf brooch on his cloak, keeping it intact, like the rest of the now split up fellowship. But then the wizard discards the cloak to reveal his white robe as if nothing held it in place. <BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Keep in mind that the guy is a wizard. Even though (thankfully) he is not shooting sparks out of his fingertips he still has magic. Therefore he can take his cloak off any way he wants.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 2.)In the Gate of Mordor scene there are two cave trolls opening the gate. Yet we are told in Fellowship that sunlight turns trolls into stone. What's keeping the troll from turning in to a pair of interesting door stops for the Black Gate? <BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Very observant. However could it be possible that only certain trolls become stone in sunlight. Because if not then Tolkien made the same mistake. Remember at the last battle Pippin was almost crushed to death by a troll fighting during the daytime. (hmmm..this would be an exelent debate topic)<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 5.)When Sam dives on Frodo at the end in front of the Nazgul on the dragon, Frodo draws Sting and hold it to Sam's throat. Given that the other side of the river is taken by the orcs shouldn't sting be glowing? Also: Frodo and Sam had been captured by Boromir, so there is no apparent reason that Frodo would have his sword iin an easily accesible area.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Imagine your Faramir. You have a thousand men at your call and you have just captured two midgets who only try to escape you by shouting how you must let them go. Up until now hobbits were never really taken seriously and Faramir had no reason to do so now. Consequently the fact that they had swords wouldn't bother Faramir.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 8.)How could a falling Wizard catch up to the sword in midair that was dropped several seconds before he did? The wind dynamics simply wouldn't make this possible. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The key word there is Wizard. He probably used his ablilities to get his sword. Also he could have caught up with the balrog because it could have been trying to use its wings.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 11.)When Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli are chasing the Uruk-hai just before the Rohan riders appear, they run between two rocky outcrops over a ridge. Aragorn signals to hide, and almost at once the riders appear. Strangely Aragorn can hear Uruk-hai on foot 1 day's march away, but not a group of riders 30 seconds ride away. Legolas, famous for his eyesight, obviously forgot to have a look over the ridge where he might have spotted the riders. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If they had hid earlier we would have spent unessisary time waiting for the Rohirum to ride up the hill. This would have been time consuming and boring.<P>Also concurning Boromir's changing hand positions during his death scene it probably happened because they shot Boromir's face at a different time then they shot Aragorn's face.

[The Saucepan Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> In the Gate of Mordor scene there are two cave trolls opening the gate. Yet we are told in Fellowship that sunlight turns trolls into stone. What's keeping the troll from turning in to a pair of interesting door stops for the Black Gate? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Very observant. However could it be possible that only certain trolls become stone in sunlight. Because if not then Tolkien made the same mistake. Remember at the last battle Pippin was almost crushed to death by a troll fighting during the daytime. (hmmm..this would be an exelent debate topic) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Perhaps they were Olog-Hai - see <A HREF="http://www.barrowdowns.com/ArticlesHiFi.asp?Size=" TARGET=_blank>this Article</A> on the BD Articles page.

[HCIsland]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Also concurning Boromir's changing hand positions during his death scene it probably happened because they shot Boromir's face at a different time then they shot Aragorn's face. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This is certainly true, not just different times but likely different positions. To get Aragorn's shot the camera would have had to be lower then Boromir's head, which is tough trick considering he's laying on the ground. They would have had to shoot Boromir, move the actors to allow the camera to be placed properly and then shoot Aragorn.<P>They likely had a multitude of takes, only some of which Boromir put his hand on Aragorn's shoulder. When they are choosing the take, their looking more at the emotional content of the performance then in small continuity issues. The vast majority of the audience would never notice this so they are better off taking the takes that best convey what they are trying to get across.<P>Having said that, it sure is fun to spot these things after the fact. <P>H.C.<P>Edited for typos.<p>[ January 28, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

[Frodo Baggins]

Speaking of a multitude of takes, there is one part in TTT that the inconsistency is SO easy to see.<P> Eowyn is weeping over a dead Theodred, when Worm come slinky sneaky tricksy in. Then comes the "must have died during the night" speech. Now, when Eowyn and Worm are facing each other, we see an angle that would have been from the doorway. Then there's the "fair and cold" speech, all is from the same angle. (honestly I'd LOVE to see outtakes from this scene, I'd think they'd be rather funny). Eowyn says "Your words are poison" and stomps out of the room. Now as she is turning to go, the camera angle switches so that we see from the view that Theodred would have were he alive, Eowyn should be facing us and Worm should have his back to us. However, things switch, Eowyn as she leaves is turned away from us and Worm is where Eowyn was a millisecond before. Those two just can't stay in the same spot can they?<p>[ January 30, 2003: Message edited by: Frodo Baggins ]

[LePetitChoux]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Also he could have caught up with the balrog because it could have been trying to use its wings.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Except, of course, for the fact that Balrogs don't have wings....or do they? <BR>No, don't answer that, I was only joking.

[Rochelle]

I have scrolled through and I don't think anyone has noted this...<P>In the FotR when the nine companions are boating down the river Anduin, Frodo is sitting in front of Sam. However when they approach the Argonath, Frodo is behind Sam! <P>In the extended version this fits because they made a stop in between and it is perfectly logical to switch places the next day...but with the cut it just didn't quite work out

[Rose Cotton]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> In the FotR when the nine companions are boating down the river Anduin, Frodo is sitting in front of Sam. However when they approach the Argonath, Frodo is behind Sam! <P>In the extended version this fits because they made a stop in between and it is perfectly logical to switch places the next day...but with the cut it just didn't quite work out <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>You must understand that the journey down the river took days.(more then two) So when you saw all those different shots of the river in the theatrical version that was representing a week's worth of paddling. Therefore the fact that Frodo and Sam switch places isn't a mistake at all. Though I guess it's confusing to some without the night scenes. They should have put text at the bottom saying: "One week later" or somthing.

[thalioniathiel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Lastly, In TTT, when Haldir arrived at Helm’s Deep, Aragorn gave him a man-hug as oppose to Legolas’ elf-hug. Why didn’t he just pat Haldir’s shoulders the way Legolas did? That should’ve been his natural reaction, given the fact that he grew up with elves. The only excuse I could think of for Aragorn is that- upon realizing that the elves have come to their rescue, Aragorn, being a human (kind of), was overcome with emotion. Hence, the man-hug. Even so, is it inherent in human beings to hug when overcome by an extreme emotion such as the one Aragorn apparently felt? I don’t think so. Haldir was obviosly taken aback by Aragorn’s hug. You can tell by the expression on his face. (Either that or he thought Aragorn was smelly). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't think this is a goof at all; yes, Aragorn is a man and he is so glad to see Haldir and hugs him. and yes Haldir is taken aback by it. I liked that scene quite a bit and think it is quite effective.<P>I also liked how Aragorn displays his human-nees when he yells in frustration and kicks the orc helmet or whatever it was.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Even so, is it inherent in human beings to hug when overcome by an extreme emotion such as the one Aragorn apparently felt? I don’t think so.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>the way you phrase this, it almost sounds like you aren't a human being...

[Tar-Palantir]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I also liked how Aragorn displays his human-nees when he yells in frustration and kicks the orc helmet or whatever it was.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't know if you know this, but Viggo broke a toe on that shot, the intensity of his yell seemingly reflects that.

[Dimannûnien]

I just watched FOTR again. Yes, that dying Boromir hand thing really bugs.

[propagandalf]

I thought it was funny (the hand thing).<P>regarding aragorn's hug-<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>the way you phrase this, it almost sounds like you aren't a human being...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That’s because I’m an electric calculator . I don’t mean to be punctilious. I was just wondering where Aragorn learned to behave like that. Certainly not from the elves. I liked the hug. It was cinematically pleasing but I don’t think it was consistent with the mannerisms of someone who was raised by elves. After all, isn’t hugginess an acquired behavior? Perhaps he picked it up from other rangers. Yeah, that’s probably it. <P>Whilst we’re on the subject. I also thought- Legolas losing it with Aragorn (whilst discussing the forthcoming battle) was totally out of character. Again, I’m not disputing the fact that the scene was a crowd pleaser. I loved it (yay). But I question the elf’s behavior since this is a thread about inconsistencies.<P>Btw, I say these things in the spirit of fun only/ cheeeers.

[balrogman]

Heres a couple for you all:<BR>1) When Legolas and Aragorn have the "dispute" look closely and you'll see that Legolas' eyes are brown, while in other parts they are blue!<BR>2)When the rain starts in the battle of Helms Deep, look at the elves hairlines. You'll see a line of running makeup!<BR>3)When Frodo is sliding down the hill to go save Sam, he stops behind large rocks sticking out of the hill. When the Haradrim soldier looks at the hill, however, it is purely pebbles and has no outcroppings near where the rocks are falling!

[Tar-Palantir]

You have seen the movie too many times, me thinks! <P>1) Never question Legolas! The Orli Gestapo might find you <BR>2) I saw something odd there as well, but it wasn't makeup. Their hairlines were just different. Lower? I couldn't put my finger on it.<BR>3) That had to be a perspective thing, because Sam and Frodo would both have been visible otherwise. I prefer to believe they were just out of frame, around the corner. Either way the guards at the Black Gate should have seen them, otherwise why even keep guards there.

[LePetitChoux]

[LIST]<LI>Aragorn's mum's grave is so unkempt for the resting place of...hmm...let me see....<I>the mother of the rightful king of half the map</I>...<BR><LI>"ORCS!"~well DUH! (it isn't an inconsistency, I just saw it yesterday and burst out laughing...got me a weird look)<BR><LI>When they enter Moria, right after "Orcs!", why does Legolas draw his sword/dagger? Surely his bow would have been better...<BR><LI>Doesn't that troll look like that beast in StarWars: The Return of the Jedi, whom Luke kills?<BR><LI> When the sceptre of the Cave Troll pierces Frodo, surely he'd have been slightly HURT? I mean, when Mithril is driven into you, and then swivelled around, you don't just get up. (I realise this was in the book too, but ah well...)<BR><LI>Quote of Aragorn: "Oh no....", then two minutes later, "You should be dead!" I'd-never-take-the-ring-my-bottom!<BR><LI> Orcs are such a bad army! Morgoth made a HUGE genetic mistake when making them-they are clearly short-sighted, as they never hit ANYTHING, unless they are 2m away, and even then it takes 3 arrows!<BR><LI>"It is a Balrog"...they wait for about 3 minutes and then "RUN!" Silly, really. Giving that Balrog a head start...<BR><LI>"The Bridge is near!" Suuuuure it is. Only 40km away...<BR><LI> How fit are the members of the Fellowship? (I don't mean handsome, but fit in its literal sense)-they can run SO FAR non stop! Me? After the first flight of steps, I'd collapse!<BR><LI>Whose eyes flash up at us after Galadriel says "EYE!"?<BR><LI>Legolas STOLE THAT JUG!<P>Thats all, folks!

[Gilthalion]

It seems that not many of the errors I've seen listed are ACTUAL errors, though some obviously are.<P>I guess it's just about impossible for any movie to have perfect continuity! But you folk surprise me! Two errors that I've heard about before are not even mentioned in this list, though perhaps they are so familiar that no one else thought them worth mentioning. But for the sake of a pedantic sense of exhaustive completeness (the foul spirit in which we labor), here are two more:<P>1) When Sam and Frodo are in the cornfield, leaving the Shire, you can see the dust plume of an automobile (or an extremely fast pony-drawn hobbit racing buggy!) in the upper right corner of your screen.<P>2) When Saruman is bringing a storm down upon the heads of our heroes laboring up the Caradhras pass, you can see a bandage on a finger of his extended left hand. Christopher Lee had smashed it in a hotel room door. In another scene, where he seems to be holding himself after Sauron tells him to "Build me an army worthy of Mordor!", Lee is hiding his broken hand in the robes of the Saruman costume.<P>It is difficult even on paper to avoid continuity errors. How much more difficult in a three part movie that will in extended version likely be on the order of 12 hours long!<P>But there are occasional moments when the reality of shooting adds more than it detracts. <P>1) When Gandalf bumps his head in Bag End, that was a real gaff by Ian McKellen, who continued on with the take in character and so they left it in. Priceless.<P>2) Note when Aragorn parries the orc-hurled blade (the knife given him by Celeborn in the Extended DVD, I believe) when defending fallen Boromir. That was actually Viggo Mortensen batting that thing down out of mid-air and not CGI enhanced prowess!<P>I'm sure there are other such shots, and to me, they balance out the inevitable imperfections.

[HCIsland]

I've tried to spot the two errors you talked about here as they are both mentioned on the director's commentary. Although I see the smoke, I can't see how it can be assumed to be a car. It doesn't seem to be moving. To me it looks like someone just burning leaves or something.<P>The bandage is there on Christopher Lee's hand, but even with freeze frame, it is extremely difficult to see.<P>It was funny, just this morning on the news, they were talking about a website that records all these 'mistakes' and mentioned how many LoTR has and then mentioned the one about Bag End's door having the knob in the centre of the door on the outside, but it is to one side on the inside. This is typical of 90% of the mistakes mentioned in this thread as it certainly is not a mistake. This represents the practicality of making a door work. The door is latched at the edge of the door, so some sort of lever mechanism must extend from the knob in the centre to the latch on the edge. Putting the latch towards one side on the inside is the only way to make a door that would be practical to open. Imagine trying to pull open that big heavy door from a knob in the middle. It isn't practical. What they did was stayed true to the discription of Tolkien while at the same time making a door that actually works.<P>With a smidge of thought, at least three-quarters of the so called mistakes on this thread can be dealt with.<P>H.C.

[Bekah]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> When the sceptre of the Cave Troll pierces Frodo, surely he'd have been slightly HURT? I mean, when Mithril is driven into you, and then swivelled around, you don't just get up. (I realise this was in the book too, but ah well...)<P> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Umm...the whole point of the mithril is that <I>it sheilds you from everything!!!!</I> And the mithril isn't actually the driving force. But...if it makes you happy, Frodo is obviously winded for a bit.<P>Does Sting look fake to any of you, in the shot when Frodo holds it to Sam's throat?<P>~ Elentari II, who wishes she had a TV, that still goes, so she could check these mistakes on the FOTR.

[Tar-Palantir]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Umm...the whole point of the mithril is that it sheilds you from everything!!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not accurate Bekah. It is not magical you know. It is simply Grade A armor that is nearly impervious to piercing and slicing, but had that Troll's mallet hit him in the chest Frodo would have been a Hobbit pancake. Ever seen someone get shot wearing a Kevlar vest? It can knock them on their a$$, just from the force. <P>And in the book some of the links of mail are actually driven into the skin.<P>cheers,<BR> <p>[ February 15, 2003: Message edited by: Tar-Palantir ]

[HCIsland]

... but if you look, he is not stabbed by a spear but by a trident and that the trident is not centered on Frodo. When one of the tines struck the mithril, it was deflected sideways, pinning Frodo between two of the tines. This is supported by the fact that the hole in Frodo's shirt is to one side. Also, if you look at the tines carefully, you will notice that the center one is actually shorter then the outside ones, meaning that the outside ones can hit the wall before the central one can fully impale Frodo.<P>Sorry guys, they thought about this to avoid the lets-slow-down-the-movie-and-heal-Frodo scene.<P>As I said, most of the stuff in this thread are not mistakes.<P>H.C.

[Calliope and Linus S. Underhill.]

lol I noticed that "What must I do" and starts packing thing from the start, it really bugs me. But what happens after that is even better if you've seen it a million times. While they're talking, Gandalf folds a shirt, hands it to Frodo, and Frodo <I>shakes it out so that it's not folded anymore</I> and stuffs it in his bag. LOL! Kind of absent-minded, eh? I saw the movie 8 times int he theater, and I think our family watches it twice a day now. AAAAAAH! Getting sick of hearing Elijah Wood say "Mohdoh" incorrectly.<P>I also noticed that in the TT when they clow up the wall, the rocks are falling verrrrrrry slooooowly, but it can't be in slow motion because the orcs below are moving at normal speed. If I were them I'd DODGE the rock that was falling at .5 mph, but that's just me.<P>Did you notice on the extended version of LOTR when Pippin and Merry threw rocks, it killed the Uruks? I know it says in the book that hobbits have dead aim, but come on! Saruman needs to stop breeding an army and start making better armour.<p>[ February 15, 2003: Message edited by: Calliope and Linus S. Underhill. ]

[HCIsland]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Did you notice on the extended version of LOTR when Pippin and Merry threw rocks, it killed the Uruks? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What? Did you take a pulse.<P>You's to say they aren't getting right up again after the hit?<P>H.C.

[Naldoriathil]

In FOTR, Gandalf is talking to Saruman about what to do about Sauron (in Isengard I think). This is only a little thing, but in one frame, Gandalf has a ring on his left middle finger and on the next frame, he doesn't! Seems kinda twisted to me...

[HCIsland]

Gandalf seems to have these funky sleaves that have a loop that go around a finger. You sure it wasn't these?<P>Gandalf having a ring? Naw! <P>H.C.

[Bekah]

Okay, sorry Tar. <P>Er...H.C, was that a joke? Because although having a ring and then not would be faulty, Gandalf having a ring in itself isn't so bad. He had one of the Three Elven Rings, though I forget which one.<P>Cheers,<P>~ Elentari II

[Tar-Palantir]

I noticed that about the ring too, but it doesn't look like a ring, it's like HCIsland said with the sleeves. It's like when someone's hair or the ruffle in their dress is different even when they haven't moved - one of those unavoidable flaws of using multiple takes.<P>Bekah, you're right as far as the movie goes, they do make the vest seem 'invincible' I think.

[Bekah]

Oh goody! You mean I'm not entirely wrong? <P>Love you all,<P>~ Elentari II

[Erulasto]

Re: the complaint about Sting not glowing in Osgiliath in spite of the Orcs on the opposite shore.<P>I would propose the following experiment: get any phosphorescent item, i.e. a glow-in-the-dark sticker or a glostick or whatever.<P>In the middle of the day, go into a dark closet, verify that the object does indeed glow. Now, step out into the bright daylight outside and observe the object again. You will, to your great surprise, notice that you can't see any glow, because the ambient light is too bright.<P>Other occurrences of this phenomenon are:<P>-the way you don't see stars during the day<BR>-the way the light cone of a flashlight is not visible when projected on snow in the daytime<BR>-the way you can't make out this post if the sun is shining on your monitor<BR>-etc.<P>Whoever said Sting must become a lightsaber around Orcs? Not Tolkien, anyway.<P>(edit=typos)<p>[ February 15, 2003: Message edited by: Erulasto ]

[Bekah]

A light-saber? <P>Anyway, although I will acquiesce the other points about glowing, I will not agree upon the one about Tolkien saying that Sting did not glow. It's all in the Hobbit, though if you want me to elaborate I'll do so.<P>~ Elentari II

[Horse-Maiden of the Shire]

The Uruk that looks at Aragorn as he runs to Boromir makes me laugh my head off every time.<BR>Elijah says it more like "Mall-door". Horrible pronunciation. Gets me everytime.

[Bekah]

Mall-dor? Do you mean when he says 'Mordor', or what?<P>And now I feel dumb, but which Uruk are you referring to? <P>~ Elentari II<p>[ April 21, 2003: Message edited by: Bekah ]

[Erulasto]

By the lightsaber commment I was referring to the brightness of the glow, not the presence of one. Let me rephrase:<P>"Whoever said that Sting must light up like a christmas tree around Orcs? Not Tolkien.'<P>Also, someone commented on the two trolls opening the Black Gate, and someone else accused Tolkien of being inconsistent on the matter of their sensitivity to light.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><B>LOTR: ROTK: Appendix F</B><P>"But at the end of the Third Age a troll-race not before seen appeared in souther Mirkwood and in the mountain borders of Mordor. Olog-hai they were called in the Black Speech. That Sauron bred them none doubted, though from what stock was not known. Some held that they were not Trolls but giant Orcs; but the Olog-hai were in fashion of body and mind quite unlike even the largest of Orc-kind, whom they far surpassed in size and power. Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race, strong, agile, fierce and cunning, but harder than stone. <I>Unlike the older race of the Twilight, they could endure the Sun, so long as the will of Sauron held sway over them</I>. They spoke little, and the only tongue that they knew was the Black Speech of Barad-dûr.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[balrogman]

Ok got some more:<BR>1) In the Special Edition FotR it has a little scene of Legolas shooting off orcs while Aragorn is wrestling an orc beside the tree. Why doesnt Legolas shoot the orc thats wrestling with Aragorn? Also, teh last orc the Legolas shoots falls before the arrow hits him.<BR>2)In the fight with the cave troll, wouldnt the beam of light turn him into stone?(Hes not an Olog-Hai,he <B>is</B> a cave troll)<P><BR>I also found a site with many errors:<BR><A HREF="http://www.moviemistakes.com/film.php?filmid=1778" TARGET=_blank>FotR</A><BR><A HREF="http://www.moviemistakes.com/film.php?filmid=2638" TARGET=_blank>TTT</A>

[Bekah]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> By the lightsaber commment I was referring to the brightness of the glow, not the presence of one. Let me rephrase:<BR>"Whoever said that Sting must light up like a christmas tree around Orcs? Not Tolkien.'<P><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Okay, gotcha. But Tolkien still said that Sting 'lights up like a Christmas tree/light-saber'. In the Hobbit. It's of the same kind as Glamdring, which lights up because of the elven craftsmanship in the making of it. It glows blue whenever enemies, especially orcs, are near. It's all in the Hobbit... <P>~ Elentari II<P>[Edited for typos]<p>[ February 17, 2003: Message edited by: Bekah ]

[Darkside]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> In the fight with the cave troll, wouldnt the beam of light turn him into stone?(Hes not an Olog-Hai,he is a cave troll) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>LOL <BR>I was thinking the same thing when I saw FotR the first time. He certainly should have turned to stone.

[balrogman]

I think i found another one while watchin FotR this morning, on Weathertop, right after the Nazgul show up they take out their swords, but when Frodo pulls out the shiny ring, the nazgul who stabs him(I'm thinking its the witch-king) pulls out his sword again!

[HCIsland]

It's a different sword.<P>H.C.

[balrogman]

aaaaaaahhhhhhhh i get it now

[LePetitChoux]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>1.Are the mini-towers at Barad-Dûr caricatures of Sauron in his armour?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><A HREF="http://www.quintessentialwebsites.com/lordoftherings/movieshots/dsr2_17.jpg" TARGET=_blank>This is what I meant</A>.

[HCIsland]

I know a lot of people are just having fun with the inconsistencies in these films, but I also know for some, these really anger them. I've been wondering why these just slide off me when other Tolkien fans are so insulted.<P>I think it's because I've been accepting these kind of movie compromises for decades in science fiction films and I guess I've gotten used to it. I'm a physics and astronomy major, and as such, I can't watch a science fiction film without spotting all the inaccuracies that fly by most others. Some films couldn't give a rat's behind for such things (Star Wars is the most popular example, but there certainly are worse offenders) but this doesn't bother me because science is not what these films are about. Other films (though certainly far fewer) go through great pains to get the science as good as they can, but even they can't be perfect. 2001, arguably the best sci-fi film every made, has it's inconsistencies. For example, that unfinished, rotating space station would have a speed wobble that would tear it apart. Does it bug me? No, because that scene is absolutely gorgeous and would be weeker if the station were finished or not rotating. In fact, 2001 is still one of my favourite all time films.<P>So what's my point? I love science and I love film and decades of following both have allowed me to rectify the two so I can continue to enjoy both. Sometimes, I don't think Tolkien experts have had the benefit of that experience.<P>H.C.<p>[ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

I thought most peole were finding these just for fun. I am. Just some stuff I randomly want to answer to from all over this thread:<P>Legolas eye color: watch Legolas closely in EVERY scene and you may notice that in FotR, he mostly has brown eyes, sometimes blue, and in tTT, it's the other way around. He looks better with brown. <P>Mithril- well, almost everything I wanted to say about it has been said by somebody else, except one thing: dont youthink the mithril coat was the worst accesory in the film? (Did I use that word right?? ) I would ceratainly NOT imagine it looking like a dress! All sparkly and shimmery and pretty! <P>Yes Gandalf does have a Ring, it is one of the Three, it is Narya, the most powerful I believe, (I have to check up on that) and it was given to him by Cirdan when Gandalf came through the Havens, because Cirdan could foresee that he would have some use for it.<P>No, I don't think Sting looked too fake, but I wasn't looking too closely. Also, when I said it shoud have been lit up, I did NOT mean "like a christmas tree" or even a light saber, I just meant it should have been glowing slightly! In just the same way as if you turn on a very strong cold blue flashlight (Sting <I>should</I> certainly be brighter than a flashlight) in the middle of the day, you may see a little bit of cold- blue light. That was just to clarify that I did not mean I thought it would just make the whole place glow. <P>By the way, could someone tell me how to use spell check on Barrowdowns if it is possible (too lazy to copy it into word )? I checked this for spelling a few times, hope there's nothing left- I found a lot

[Voralphion]

I am not sure if this has been mentioned before, but in the first movie Arwen is using a saddle on her horse, when it is well known that elves ride bareback. I think that Legolas also uses a saddle in Rohan.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

I don't know if Legolas was using a saddle in Rohan in the movie, but in the book it specifically stated that he took of the saddle. I was watching closesly, but I just don't remember.

[balrogman]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> it is Narya, the most powerful I believe, (I have to check up on that) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I believe Vilya(Elrond's ring) is the most powerful, but i dont want to jabber on about that in this thread, im sure there are others about this. <P>I got a new screwup!! Here it is:<BR>When Gandalf and Saruman are throwing each other around, watch Gandalf's very last spell, throwing Saruman through the double doors. Gandalf hits the floor doing so, but the next instant is shown standing with staff in hand

[Fingon]

there has been one thing that just screams out to me during both movies. aragon should have narsil or the blade reforged but if you look at the scene in rivendell narsil has a big hole in the pummel of the sword. and aragon should have been carrying it after they set out from rivendell. but if you look he still has his ranger sword. in both movies he has his ranger sword. he never carries narsil. i think that was a big mistake that got overlooked.

[HCIsland]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> he never carries narsil. i think that was a big mistake that got overlooked. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It's not an oversight. It's deliberate. Watch for The Sword Reforged in RoTK.<P>H.C.

[Airehiriel]

A thought occured to me today while I was watching part of LotR: FotR. I read someone somewhere say that during the scene in Moria, where they are in the room with Balin's tomb, just before the orcs run into the room, Boromir runs to the door to see what is going on. Over his should you can see Aragorn laying down a torch and comes running. In the very next scene we see Aragorn holding the torch, then laying it down. What my thought is, is that we are watching two things that are happening at the same time, but since we dont have a split screen, they have to show the scenes in succession. This would explain for me scenes in other movies that have looked like this! I'm not saying that all the mistakes can be explained away like this, but I think some of them can. <P>Does this make sense to anyone else? Or is it just me?

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

When the program to simulate Helm's Deep was run the first time the defender's of Helm's deep ran away

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

*pulls thread up to top*<BR>To stop going over and over the same things, I'd like to ask a new question: what movie mistakes/inconsistencies do you think there will possibly be in RotK?

[HCIsland]

Mistake and inconsistencies are different things.<P>In my mind mistakes, in the spirit of the opening post of this thread, is something the film makers did by accident, like Boromirs roving hand during his death scene with Aragorn.<P>I'm not sure what you mean by inconsistencies. Do you mean internal plot holes or do you mean inconsistencies with the book. Calling the later a mistake is subjective considering these types of inconsistencies are certainly deliberate changes made by the makers of these films.<P>Now if you want guesses as to differences between the film RoTK and the books, here are my guesses.<P>Saruman and Wormtongue will be killed towards the beginning of the film at Isengard.<P>Arwen, perhaps with a company of elves, will bring the banner of Gondor and the reforged Narsil to Aragorn. There will be no Dunedain nor will Elrond's sons be mentioned.<P>They will have to give Arwen something to do in this film before the wedding. I was hoping for a knock down cat fight in the mud with Eowyn, but I think I'll be disappointed. I've heard rumour of her being with Aragorn during the viewing through the Palantir. Other than that, I haven't a guess. This is problematic and it wouldn't surprise me if Jackson has filmed Arwen in a lot of ways (he's well known for shooting a lot of film) and still may not be eexactly sure what he is going to do. I'll be happy if the sword swinging is kept to a minimum.<P>No Scoring of the Shire, but I figure we all know that by now.<P>No Imrahil, or if he is there he will just be the well dressed soldier from the south.<P>Sam and Frodo marching with the orcs? I'm not sure about this one, but they've made the orcs universally big, certainly much bigger than a hobbit. I'm not sure PJ will be able to sell this scene to the audience.<P>Wedding and coronation will be together.<P>Sauron will appear physically at the Black Gates to kick some major butt.<P>That's all that's occuring to me for now.<P>Whether these are mistakes or not are debatable.<P>H.C.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

I didn't start the topic, so I wouldn't know, but I thought that inconsistencies meant things that either were not consistent with the book, or didn't make sense, as in the bridge changing (I don't know if this actually happened.) Maybe we should ask whoever started this, I think it might have been LePetitChoux.<BR>Edit: I'm a shade now! <p>[ March 24, 2003: Message edited by: GaladrieloftheOlden ]

[Horse-Maiden of the Shire]

The bridge changing? Oh yeah, I gotcha. Ger dernit, I am so mad that there is no Scouring of the Shire. I hope Frodo's finger still gets bitten off though. Then I can laugh and people can look at me funny. <P>Legolas slips in Rohan, even though he is an elf! Come on, if I can spot it you can PJ. That was just funny. Plus Frodo's various faces that he makes. Ha Ha Ha.

[Mordor_Queen]

Yeah I don't see how Isildur could write the account AND fight at the same time. Very strange...

[HCIsland]

I'm sorry, I don't get this one. It's not like he was taking dictation. He could have remembered what was on the Ring. It's not like it's long and he's a pretty bright guy. Also, being of high Numenorean blood and one of the faithful, he would know the language, which is based upon the High Elven language.<P>Even if he forgot what was on the Ring, he knows that fire brings out the script (as is stated in the movie) so he can bring it up anytime he wants.<P>Strike another one from the list.<P>H.C.<p>[ March 26, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

[Lucinda]

Picked up hugging from the rangers!? umm, sorry good idea, maybe youre right, but rangers always struck me as reserved, not a group of people who meet up to have parties!. Just a personal opinion though

[The Only Real Estel]

C'mon guys! 10 times! I've seen it 24 times! But do you think after Sauron was destroyed his orcs weren't? Or if they weren't (that's possible) to you think they'd have the courage to fight? They didn't have the courage to fight when he simply turns his mind to other things for a second (see the latter end of RotK), much less after he was destroyed! There are many errors in this movie, but that I don't think qualifies as one of them! A real error is like this one: When the fellowship spots the Crowbine on Cahadaras, Borimir states that they are moveing fast, AGAINST THE WIND! That would be blowing straight out in front of the fellowship, right? Of course right ( )! But in the next scene, Legolas' hair is clearly blowing behind his head, and not forwards (across his face), pretty quick change in the wind, don't you think?

[The Only Real Estel]

Another error example: When the company is rowing up to the Argonath (statues of the Kings of Gondor on there way to Amon Hen), the Kings are both extending their LEFT arms,<BR>in tokens of warning. Yet after they pass the imposing statues, and the camera swings back to the Argonath (this time from behind), you can clearly see that the statue on the left now had his RIGHT arm extended! Those computer-generated images are sure nasty things to keep track of, aren't they?

[The Only Real Estel]

To HCIsland: Actually, the Black Speech was not know well among even the Numenorians, but if you've already seen my post above, it'd show you how he remembered. Also, in the words of Isildur, 'the writing was now past behind all recounting, although, if this thing were set back into the flame, perhaps it would yet yield its secret' (or something like that!); but Isildur would never have put the Ring into the fire, he would 'risk no hurt to the Ring'. Gandalf also mentioned that one has to have great strength of will to set it in the flames even for a little while, something Isidur proved he did not have when he took the Ring for himself.

[The Only Real Estel]

To LePitieChoux: Gandalf was apparently striving in thought, trying to avoid the Balrog. Once they fled, it sensed their terror. You'd be suprised how far you can run when your life is on the line! But Aragorn was a Ranger, which means he's always in tip-top shape, the same probably went for Borimir (the shape part),the hobbits had lost many pounds, I'm sure, but notice they are staggering across the Brige of Kazad-dum, except Legolas of course. I agree with you that Mithril doesn't protect you that much, in the book he was, 'deeply bruised & found it painful to breathe or talk'. In the movie he jumped right up, and ran to the bridge (Aragorn carried him quite a ways in the books).

[The Only Real Estel]

I didn't know that Viggo actually had to bat that down! They shold've coputer-g'd that, it could've been dangerous! He nearly died in the TTT scene of him floating down the river (knocked-out), he should let the stuntmen do their job. It wouldn't have looked good to have to cast a different Aragorn for RotK! (I'm makeing up for not being here earlier with all these entries)

[The Only Real Estel]

As HCIsland said, the website: nitpickers.com, prides it self on having seen more than 100 errors (or 200, i fogot), but I'd say at least half of them are actually not errors, or are neccessary to be in the movie. For instance: When Gandalf throws the ring and its envelope into the fire, nitpickers points out that, although they did a good job of ageing the envelope & makeing it look Middle Earthish, the envelope clearly burns along the glued edges!<BR>GASP! Do you really think they are going to create a whole new envelope, when normal people are satisfied with the aged look? It's 'errors' like that that comprimise about half of their list!

[The Only Real Estel]

Sorry Euralasto, in the books it says that, the blade grows bright when orcs are near (they say it in the movie to), there is no accounting for it, simply a mistake on computer-generating. Have you guys noticed the terrible acting job done by the orcs? The last orc that Borimir kills (in the non-extended version at least) begins to fall backwards before Borimir comes close to hitting him! Also, Lurtz (chief uruk-hai) falls way before Aragorn tackels him for the first time! They need to take acting lessons from the hobbits (watch farmer maggots fields).

[The Only Real Estel]

Oh! My bad! I don't know about Sting in Osgiliath, but I do know that when the company is surrounded by the Moria-orcs in...well Moria, Frodo's sword fails to glow, even with a few thousand orc faces a few feet away! That was what the comment above was meant for. My bad. But the book said that Sting glowed brightly when orcs were near, and then it dimmed as they fell farther behind. Still, as long as Sting was glowing, you'd be able to tell! <p>[ April 21, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

[The Only Real Estel]

There are 3 different kinds of cave trolls, the moria cave troll was not the kind that could get turned into stone. Actually the witch-king is holding a long sword in his right hand, and calling for the ring with his left. When Frodo pulls the ring back, you see the witch-king with a dagger in his right hand, nothing in his left hand, and no long word in sight! I believe Legolas was actually rideing on bundels or robes, but still, you have a point, that isn't bareback (as the book states)! Borimir's roving hand happened like this: The cast filmed Aragorn's lines (with just Viggo staring at the ground) before lunch, then went off to get lunch. After they returned, they did Borimir's lines (with Aragorn). Borimir did his lines with his hand on Aragorn's shoulder, but since he wasn't there to have his hand on hi shoulder during Viggo's lines, they screwed up. When they switched the scences in, that created Borimir's 'roving hand'.

[The Only Real Estel]

They didn't have time to show what they did in the mean while, obviously that would've put a major constraint on time. Yes, Gimli's axe 'clubbings' are kind've lame. He rolls heads for a living, he doesn't kill people by giving them terrible internal bruises! before the extended movie corrected it, you could see the dim face of a black rider, or his chin, most prominatly in the Inn at Bree, and in Bree, and at the River near Rivendell (I forgot what it's called). Yes, at Caharadas you can see Frodo's 'skin stocking', it is clearly an odd color. Again, there are 3 kinds of trolls, the 2 that open the gate are most likely one of the 2 kinds that are not turned into stone by the sun. Gimli is a dwarf. Dwarves don't have the greatest eyesight. Also, a dwarf will talk about his people and their works for ever, and never notice a thing that takes place around him, why then should he notice skeletons in a dimly-lit entryway, while he's bragging and blathering on to Legolas? The extended version does, as you said clear up the Frodo/Sam boat seats 'mix up' (which was also listed as an error by nitpickers, BEFORE the extended version came out), but Jackson just expected his audience to guess there'd be stops along the way, and they might switch places during some of those stops. Aragorn kicking the helmet was good, his little scream of anger was frighteningly bad acting (though obviously not an error)! The whole start of the Helms Deep battle was messed up, not just Legolas losing hope and blowing up....Wew! Please pay attention to the hand roving thing and the troll bit, even if you do disregard everything else (this is in response to some unanswered questions from the 1st page, I finally got around to reading these mistakes and 'mistakes'). I don't have a problem with talking about errors in the movie, I just find it pathetic that people like the guys on nitpickers were LOOKING for errors all through the first time they saw the movie! I shudder to think what errors they've found (or think they've found) in TTT. <p>[ April 21, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

[Tinuviel the Nightingale]

I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but did anyone else notice that the Black Rider's horses aren't always black? It sets me off laughing every time.