Shelob

[Arvedui III]

Just a question,<BR>Did anybody feel a little disapionted that shelob wasn't in TTT?<P>Arvedui

[Estelyn Telcontar]

No, because that was announced and discussed for months in advance.

[the real findorfin]

I think TTT had enough in it to keep us entertained, so it wasn't as if there was a big hole to fill (although Osgiliath might be considered a hole). Let's just hope she looks her fine self in ROTK.

[Anorien]

you have got to be kidding! i about peed my pants at the end, i was soo mad! they dragged the war on too long, and didn't put in enough from the book...it was dissapointed. i think the first one was better. of course frodo getting evil was cool, one of the reasons i can't wait for the ROTK! but ya know, PJ coulda done a little better with TTT. I mean, SHELOB WAS THE HIGHLIGHT! THE BEST PART! or, so i thought. but at least we know it's still in the series. so much for the scourging of the shire.... i heard that has been done away with. and that is the whole major theme thingy! it's when the helpless hobbits rise up and fight for the shire! it should be included! ok, now i'm rambling! Be excellent to eachother, and don't forget to drink your milk!

[Elfstone]

In my view, Shelob not being in the movie was perfectly fitting. Aragorn off a cliff, Arwen with the power to impart the life saving grace of the Valar, Elves at Helm's Deep, Arwen off to see Cirdan, Treebeard giving an angry yell and every Ent from here to the other end of Fangorn immediately showing up (as if they were all 20 feet away), Gimli again reduced to a punch line sidekick, no Hurons, the desecration of Faramir's character, no reckoning with Saruman, Gollum getting laughs.<P>Yeah, no Shelob fit right in to the movie.

[Gorwingel]

I knew for months that Shelob was not going to be in TTT, even though it is my favorite part of the book. It would have not fit into Peter Jackson's version of the story. Though I can't wait to see her, and she is the part that I most want to see in the ROTK.

[The Saucepan Man]

No, because I knew that she will be there at the start of Rotk. Which makes perfect sense to me. She will I am sure be an absolutely fantastic curtain raiser to the final film. <p>[ February 07, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]

[Arvedui III]

Ok, now I'm embarised. I knew nothing of shelob not being in TTT(which rocked anyway so I dunno where I'm going with this) . I also am angry that I'll have to wait another year to see her, but that will make it all the more satisfing when ROTK comes out. Shelob Rules!<BR>Arvedui

[Aratlithiel]

I, like most here, was aware that Shelob would not be in TTT so I was not disappointed. I just have to say that this is SUCH a fabulous scene for Samwise and I pray they get it right in the movie. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>'Now come, you filth!' he cried. 'You've hurt my master, you brute, and you'll pay for it. We're going on; but we'll settle with you first. Come on, and taste it again!' <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Absolute perfection and I pray they don't try to "improve" upon it.

[Ithildin]

YES!! I was! <BR>wonder how long ROTK is going to be (not that it bothers me), but they should have Shelob in TTT!!!<P>oh well, we'll se her next christmas!<BR>

[Birdland]

Nah, I think P.J. got it right. Shelob is better off appearing in the third film, because after that, things get a little slow for our Halfling heroes until they hit the slopes on Mt. Doom. <P>Patience, my precioussesss. <I>She</I> is coming...<P>P.S. - I heard that P.J. discovered Shelob while she was performing as an extra in "Eight-Legged Freaks", and that she and Andy Serkis will be competing against each other in the 2003 Oscar race. But they are still good friends.

[Grimbold]

Tolkien never wanted his book to be in three parts in the first place, so the only relevance for where the events of the storyline are broken up is in terms of movie-making. Putting Boromir's death at the end of FOTR was important so that that film would have a good climax. Helm's Deep was made into the climax of TTT. Shelob will be the opening action segment for the Frodo-Sam part of ROTK.

[Pukel-Man]

I heard that it's actually Arwen who saves Sam and Frodo by slaying Shelob. After that, she hurries to Gondor just in time to dispatch the Witch-King.

[Naldoriathil]

PJ is editing ROTK as we speak and Shelob is a definate for ROTK, so no one start panicking!

[Aratlithiel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I heard that it's actually Arwen who saves Sam and Frodo by slaying Shelob. After that, she hurries to Gondor just in time to dispatch the Witch-King. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>ROFL, Pukel-Man. Is that before or after she saves Denethor from his pyre, challenges Sauron with the palantir and throws the Ring into the fire? What a woman!

[Peri]

I certainly was disappointed. She played quite a big role at the end of The Two Towers. Oh well, at least she'll be in the next movie.

[Discord101]

I think it would have made a better if rather than Gollum mentioning her, that the cliff hanger of the film would have been a small climpse of Shelob. Even if it was just one leg.

[Sindae]

I AM disappointed. Every time I read the book I hated the 4th one because it's just incredibly boring, and shelob appearing there was at least something exciting! of course there isn't this separation 3rd book-4th book in the movie but still i would have liked to see her in TTT.

[BethoHOG]

If Shelob was in The Two Towers at the end of the movie (like the book of course), then I think it would leave the movie in a rather negative attitude. What do you guys think?

[Gorwingel]

If they had put Shelob at the end of TTT I could just see it now. Mad rioting at the end of the film, people yelling "What happens now", "I thought the first film was a cliffhanger, this is even worst!". Because when I read the book, I wanted to find out what happened to Frodo and Sam, and in the beginning of ROTK you follow the other guys so I read really quickly through that part just so I could get to what happened to them.

[Eressië Ailin]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I heard that it's actually Arwen who saves Sam and Frodo by slaying Shelob. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I hate Arwen in the movies!!!!! DIE DIE DIE!!! Sorry about that... Arwen is always stealing some one's part!!! It is so uncool!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> "Glorfindel was here."<P>"Oh wait, no I wasn't. That little tart Arwen stole my part."<P>*Elladan and Elrohir look to where Aragorn is glaring at them.*<P>Elladan: What? It's true ya know. She did steal his part.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> ~Sorry, I couldn't help myself. Does anyone else hate Arwen in the movies?<p>[ February 17, 2003: Message edited by: Eressië Ailin ]

[Lady Alasse]

Shelob is definetly a big part in TTT I think she should have been included in the movie

[Meela]

nope.<P>but then im an arachnophobic and wont even see rotk because of this spider (although it looks very well done in the film), unless i stay outside until the good bits come on

[BethoHOG]

I have arachnophobia too... but I'm still willing to watch it.

[Morgul Queen]

nah they should have put her in just for the *killing* Frodo thing, you know, instead of making up some Crap about Aragorn *dying* that wasn't in the book why not *kill* Frodo on whos shoulders the fate of middle-earth rests,that is far more emotional than *killing* off our dear Strider and the best part...Its in the books!!!!

[Cibbwin]

Guys, the story is not ruined because a character is going to be in the 3rd movie! I mean, she will still BE there. PJ isn't stupid enough to leave Shelob out! Just wait! 300 more days...

[Morgul Queen]

Ummm, he was going to leave Galadriel and Lothlorien out and he only put it back in just before they started filming.

[Lady_Báin]

well he's not <I>completely</I> stupid, though i shall never fogive him for faramir, but think of what the movie would be like if shelob was there shall we...<P>she does her thang and then what? there's nothing to look forward too. all you have to think about is the pelenor fields (and maybe the paths of the dead and the crack of doom) <P>Now isn't it better to have that knawing, sick anticipation feeling for the next movie ?

[Balin999]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I heard that it's actually Arwen who saves Sam and Frodo by slaying Shelob<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ok, this was a joke, but if that turns out to be true, I'm absolutely sure that I will get a heart attack or at least go completely insane and tear my hair out.<BR>I could just cope with the changes they made with Arwen so far, and I survived Haldir and Faramir in TTT, but THAT (see above) would be too much for me.

[Feanor...]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> so much for the scourging of the shire.... i heard that has been done away with. and that is the whole major theme thingy! it's when the helpless hobbits rise up and fight for the shire! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I seriously doubt they will get rid of this part. Even if they did just end it at Aragorn & Arwen's wedding there would be too many loose threads still hanging about what happens. The very power of Tolkein's story is that it doesn't just end. "and they all lived happily ever after" The most poignant part of his story is that it doesn't seem to end and somehow, his story, his timeline can be connected to the world, the timeline we live in now.<BR>Besides, Peter still has to make the special edition DVD

[Meoshi]

I disagree totally with that. I refuse to believe that it 'links to our timeline'. That would ruin the story for me. But that's another matter.<P>Personally, I don't mind that Shelob wasn't in TTT, it being a late night showing and me being a level 4 aranchnophobe(there is no level 5), I was grateful for the lack of elephant-sized spiders.

[Mordor_Queen]

yeah! thats a really good part in the book

[Sapphire_Flame]

Even though I knew that Shelob wouldn't be in Towers, I was extremely disappointed anyway. I mean, come on! Giant spiders rule! (anyone here seen Eight Legged Freaks?) But I can understand the logic behind it, even if I *was* cussing out the screen for ten minutes after the show ended because I was so PO'd..........But I digress. Just a bit of ranting there, pay it no mind...<P>I was more disappointed about how they ended the other part. I really think that the others should've gotten to Isengard and had the showdown between Saruman and Gandalf. If PJ had ended the first half of Towers where it was supposed to end, I wouldn't be so mad. But no, he chopped off the end of *both* books in Towers, to be stuck in RotK in December. I feel that Towers really got short-changed; the first chapter was cut off and stuck in Fellowship, and the ends were cut off and stuck in RotK! By the Valar, what is that man thinking?!<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Does anyone else hate Arwen in the movies?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>YES!!! She wasn't so bad in Fellowship (even if she *did* kife Glorfindel's part...) but in Towers she was so annoying! I really don't think she should've been in that much, if at all. The pacing in those scenes was much too slow for the overall feel of the movie, and they just weighed it down. I liked her much more in the Books, where she is rarely mentioned, and only in passing does she come into the main story. <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>...they should have put her[Shelob] in just for the *killing* Frodo thing, you know, instead of making up some Crap about Aragorn *dying* that wasn't in the book why not *kill* Frodo on who's shoulders the fate of Middle-earth rests, that is far more emotional than *killing* off our dear Strider and the best part...It's in the books!!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Truer words were never spoken. The whole Aragorn death thing really didn't work. They only did it so Aragorn could see the orc army, then run his little self to Helm's Deep and tell everyone about it. Haven't they heard of scouts?!?! They could've sent scouts out to find out the same thing, and saved us a whole lot of time.<P>Also, the whole change of Faramir's personality (and the events involving him) was quite distressing. The scene in Osgiliath was completely unnecessary, not to mention unrealistic. I believe the purpose of that scene was the showdown with the Nazgul, but that could have been achieved just as easily by having the events go as stated in the book, and having a similar occurance happen near Minas Morgul, as it happened in the books. C'mon people, *think*!!!<P>I've digressed again. The Shelob Affair (SA) was aggravating, to say the least. I can't wait until RotK comes out and we get to see her. Only 286 days left!

[Arvedui III]

YAY! My feelings exactly. I bow to whoever just said that. And may I predict that with Shelob, Mt. Doom, The battles of Pelennor Fields,Cormallen, and may I say, Bywater ROTK will be the best movie ever!

[Sapphire_Flame]

Hang on, just pulling this back to the front page.........<P>BTW, thanks Arvedui!

[qwerty01944]

I was kind of dissapointed with no shelob, i think the movie took to long on getting ready for the war. 30 Minutes could have been saved for it.

[Ruler of the Frogs]

I though the ending of TTT was good. It spiked your curiosity, kept you waiting for the next installment (RotK) Of course, those who have read will know what Gollum means, but not people who only watch the movies. Anyway, I think that putting in Shelob would have been too much if you know what I mean. Helms Deep was supposed to be the spectacular thing. Also, there are good ways to end a movie. Ending it with a closure is good (Boromir dieing for instance. It symbolizes an end to something.) And also with a Cliffhanger (like the end of TTT) but with a big battle scene with a gigantic spider is cool, but a bit too dramatic for an ending scene, which are usually calm.

[Sapphire_Flame]

I can't remember who said it, but I heard that the way a trilogy should be done is: in the first installment you set the scene and get the story started; in the second installment, you get the characters into the worst situation possible; and in the last installment, you get them out of it. I think the best way to end TT would have been to have the "incident" with Shelob, then end it with Sam thinking that he has to take the Ring to Mount Doom. i.e. Sam doesn't know that Frodo is alive yet, and we find that out in the next one. Of course, ending where Tolkien did would've worked well too!

[Aratlithiel]

True, Sapphire. Before learning of Shelob's apparent absence in TTT, I thought the cliff-hanger ending was a natural movie ending and was quite surprised to learn that it wouldn't be taken advantage of.<P>However, we must all remember that these movies are "dumbed-down" versions of Tolkien's epic and (unfortunately) changes were made according to what the general movie-going public would accept. According to a NY Times critic back in January, the most reasonable explanation for leaving Shelob and Frodo's apparent death until RotK was to avoid the need for the movie company to explain to Elijah Wood fans that they should still come to the 3rd movie because Frodo wasn't really dead. Kinda rules out any "Frodo Lives" merchandising but what's a multi-million dollar corporation to do?

[Arayáviëiel]

Don't forget, however, that the first two books are actually 4 books in all (Even Tokein did not feel that the books were a "trilogy"). RotK is quite short if you only count the "story" part, not the appendices. It makes alot of sense to borrow from TTT to fill out a full movie. Plus, it will add wonderful action to RotK --and may have detracted from TTT if it was put in and done hastily. But, I do agree that a little snippet of a hairy, wriggling spider foot, or a little quint form a spider eye, would have been a wonderful teaser for ROTK!

[Mordor_Queen]

Yeah because that was a really gripping part in the book and i was so looking forward to it when I went to see The Two Towers, but then I found out that they had moved it into the Return of the King.

[Sapphire_Flame]

Right on, Aratlithiel. I think LotR really wouldn't have done as well as it has if it had been completely true to the books; people nowadays aren't really able to disect those sorts of deep thinking and meaningful scenes. If they movies were to be done properly, for the tried and true fans of the books, there would have to be six movies, one for each book. Maybe they could come out more frequently too (one every six months). Those're just my little thoughts about it; you all may feel differently...<P>**271 days until RotK**

[Gorwingel]

I was just wondering, since they are probably not going to talk about how they created the charater of Shelob before ROTK comes out because it would give away a major storyline. How do you think she is going to be created? Is she going to be computer generated, or a mixture of puppetry and other things. I would put my money on computer, because she would probably be even easier than doing Gollum.

[Tar-Palantir]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I would put my money on computer <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think that is a smart bet! The scene outside of the path will need to be something faster moving than a physical prop covered with foam latex and paint. I bet they make her very nimble and quick, I hope with a sinister type of intelligence too.<P>Probably very similar to the Watcher in the Water or the Cave Troll.

[Gorwingel]

Or maybe even like the Balrog, I hope she is wonderful though and evil

[HCIsland]

I am very hopeful of these guys giving us a good Shelob. I can see part of her being aminatronics though, especially at the moment when Sam stabs her. I think he may need a level of interaction here that computers can't provide.<P>Treebeard was part aminatronics, so this is something they do.<P>H.C.

[elvenarcheressnenya]

I'm not sure if the Shelob was really permanantly left out. I don't know because I have no connections or information, but it might be in Return of the King. If you'd noticed, TTT didn't end where the book did at all. It ended before the part where the Shelob was supposed to be in, so in my opinion, there could still be hope.

[Loremir]

I think that they are going to have ro add things from TTT the book to ROTK cause otherwise it would totally suk I am obbcessed w/ the movies and the books i am getting really po w/ PJ

[HCIsland]

Shelob will be in Return of the King. This has been confirmed by PJ himself.<P>H.C.

[Sapphire_Flame]

In the theatrical version DVD of Fellowship, there's a making-of feature that was on Fox at some point, and you do see a bitty artist's model of Shelob for like five seconds. I thought she looked very good, like a cross between a black widow and a tarantula.<P>In my opinion, she will be mostly CG, but, in the making-of book that I have, they do mention some animatronic spider legs being in one of the prop stores, most likely for Sam's interaction with her, like HCIsland said.

[elvenarcheressnenya]

Oh good! Thanks for clearing that up with me HCIsland^^<P>While the Shelob will probably be most cgi, PJ and crew has done a great job with the cgi characters from the other two (the troll was magnificent!) so I have faith in them making the Shelob spectacular!

[The Saucepan Man]

For those of you who were annoyed that Shelob was not in TTT, just console yourselves with the thought that you still have her to look forward to.<P>As I think I said earlier in this thread, what a great curtain raiser she will be for RotK.

[Iarwain]

Ah, but what a great curtain closer it would have been. Of course, I'm over her absense myself. I've generally accepted TTT as a failure. With all the stuff they have to cram into RotK, my guess is that it's going to an action packed three and a half hour rollercoster ride.