Obi-Wan And Gandalf

[Gimli Son Of Gloin]

DOn't you think that Obi-Wan Kenobi(Episode 4) is exactly Gandalf. They are exactly the same! If I didn't know better I would think they are played by the same guy, but Obi-Wan died...

[Anorien]

Ok, what exactly are you getting at? i'm gonna go fast so that i can be the first to post! ok, their characters are very similar, dress, and mannorisms. But, no, they do not look alike, if that's what you meant at all. and, just for the books, GANDALF is soooooo much better than obi-won.

[Gimli Son Of Gloin]

They remind me of each toher sooooooo much. And Obi-Wan might beat Gandalf. He has the power of the force.

[Gorothlammothiel]

Actually they are more similar than you think. Obi-Wan was "defeated" in Ep. IV but returned to guide Luke. Gandalf does return after the first "episode" to guide the other members of the fellowship who are perhaps as mismatched as the group in Star Wars who set out to stop their very own Dark Lord.

[GreatWarg]

And why exactly are we discussing something of this matter in a LotR forum??? Oh well, Obi may hjave the Force, but Gandalf has the power of Eru on his side.

[Gorothlammothiel]

As for who would win? Obi-Wan indeed has or had the force but Gandlaf has a force of his own, don't forget his actual purpose in ME and the power he himself possesed.

[Evenstar1]

Yes, but The Force had both a light and a dark side, whereas Eru had only light...<P>There ARE similarities between Istari and Jedi, between Gandalf and Obi Wan, but only superficial ones. The entire concept of how they derived their power -- which is kind of the underlying basis of Tolkien -- is very different.

[Gimli Son Of Gloin]

Goro, you are right. Both 'died' and came back stronger than before. If they hadn't 'died' they wouldn't have defeated the nemesis.

[Gorothlammothiel]

Evenstar1 i do believe that the underlying value of Tolkien's work is how the power derived, as you put it, but the plots are similar. I don't mean to offend anyone and of couorse i find Tolkien's books far superior to that of the Star Wars galaxy but both tell of a time other than now and how a group of unlikely heroes defeat the evil power in their world, be it that the evil power is Sauron or the Sith. Both stories are about corruption of good and the innocent in want of total control or domination of their world in it's entirety. In LOTR we see the Dark lord put his power into a ring which he uses to corrupt the races of ME and in SW we see a Dark Lord corrupted with the Dark Side try to turn others and control what he believes his, just as Sauron does. Granted though Sauron was of course more sucessful and that story far deeper.

[Aldagrim Proudfoot]

If you're all saying Lucas copied Tolkien, I heard Lucas was actually inspired by a Japanese movie (by the guy who did <I>The Seven Samurai</I>)

[Gayalondiel]

Lucas based SW around ideas drawn from multi-cultural sources (including the Seven Samurai guy) and the "hero's journey". Its a basic structure derived from myth and legends all over the world, which are found to have common plot structure: heroes, loss of innocence, mentors, sacrifice, etc. Obi-Wan and Gandalf are both terrific examples of the "Mentor" model: strong, wise characters who have to be lost so the "hero" can achieve a sense of independance and be pushed on to further action. but they have to come back and achieve peace and fulfilment. I'm not saying either writer has plagarised anyone; this model is found the world over and is one of the most natural to us, as every fairy-tale has one. Obi-Wan and Gandalf are two spectacular examples of a simple template given a great depth and individuality.

[Evenstar1]

Good points, Gorothlammothiel! And well-summarized, Gayalondiel!

[ElfEarz]

no no no gandalf is not better then obi-wan i dont know who would win cuz gandalf is powerful but obi-wan has the force plus his lightsaber could melt gandalf's sword so weapons wouldnt do anything but gandalf is powerful like i said. i think they are equal. and isnt gandalf in Lotr? duh! so this topic does have to do with lotr.

[Anorien]

Ok, I admit they are closer than i had thought. They whole death and stronger thing, and the power of whatever, and then the helping of someone...you catch my drift. But still, Gandalf is by far better. LOTR is By far better than SW, ya know???

[Gorothlammothiel]

Anorien I don't think that is to be said in here (your last comment) as you will start a possibly heated debate on how no one can like both LOTR and SW, which of course is nonsense because they are different in thier own rights (not that I mean to contradict what has already been said in here because now it's a different matter).

[Aldagrim Proudfoot]

Gandalf not only hasd the power of Eru, but he's also a Maia and has power of his own. Plus, he would need a sword to degeat Obi Wan.

[mark12_30]

But anyway, what would happen, is that Obi-Wan and Gandalf would look each other in the eye, and Obi-Wan would say something like "The Force is strong in you, " and Gandalf would say something like "I am Gandalf The Grey, I have come to bring you aid!" And then they'd say a few more polite things, sit down, put their heads to gether and discuss the political/ military/ spiritual rammifications of the current situation. Then they'd team up, and "whomp-the-whey" out of the bad guys.

[Naaramare]

Or, if there were no bad guys, sit down with a cup of tea/kava and have a long, involved discussion on the role of the spirit in the universe.

[Knight_Link]

yes, they are kinda alike the ay of giving council and getting inecennt ppl involved in dangerous things, but OBI WAN IS THE BEST!!!! im sry, but i REALLY dont like gandalf that much (sry to nobody if she reads this!!!) i dont think they looks very much alike obi wan looks young when you look at him...well, not young, but not old and gandalf is just....well, lets just say he looks like hes been around longer than the valar...:P

[Bulelainwen]

Gandalf reminds me of a lot of people cuz hes an old smart guy and lots of movies have old smart guys

[Aldagrim Proudfoot]

Unfortinately there are so many of them, I've actually had someone tell me Tolkien used nothing new.

[Knight of Gondor]

I don't like the religion of Star Wars. Too New Age, versus the basis of LotR was Tolkien's Christian roots. <P>And besides, Gandalf was impowered by Eru, Illuvatar, and had purpose. Ob-Wan used some old "Force" battery. And also, Gandalf fights better. He also has a staff besides his sword. He would win in a fight. (Though Obi-Wan having superior technology, I suppose the light-saber could cut right through the blade...maybe not, if it's a Gandalf blade...dunno)<P><Dave Ducks lest he be hit by vegatables thrown by angry Star Warped Fans...>

[Emni Windrunner]

In my opinion, Gandalf is better for two simple reasons:<P>1. He doesn't need a sword, and he definitely doesn't need the Force. Maia vs. human (even if that human is a Jedi) is pretty much no contest at all. If Gandalf had a notion, Obi-Wan would fry.<P>2. None of his students turned to the Dark Side while under his tutelage. You could argue that Frodo eventually gave in to the Ring...but that was after Gandalf "died". Obi-Wan's first student turned to the Dark Side and basically helped destroy the galaxy, and his second very nearly turned (or, if you read the books, did eventually turn) and would have continued where the first one left off.

[Gorothlammothiel]

I'm sorry to go right into Star Wars now but Emni Windrunner, you say that Obi-Wan failed both the Padawan learners he taught.<P>Although Anakin is undisputed, Luke was another matter. He was not taught in the Jedi arts by Obi-Wan. It was Yoda with the assistance of Obi-Wan. And on that topic, recently revealed is that not only did Luke go to the Dark Side having been trained by Yoda, but Count Dooku having been Yoda's padawan also turned and was responisible for Anakin's later choices. <P>However I do still believe that Gandalf had the superior power, just had to point that out and defend Obi-Wan.

[cookie_crazy]

Forget it buddy! No one is better than Obi Wan(that is the young one). But noooooo Alec Guiness looks soooooo much more convincing as Obi Wan(no make-up)than Ian McKellen with Gandalf. Sorry to everyone but it's almost true.

[RiderOfRohan]

I like sw and obi-wan but i never thought of how alike obi-wan and Gandalf are. both die and get stronger, give advice clouded in mystery ... But obi can't compare with Gandalf

[Davin]

Hmmm...I used to be a huge StarWars fan....but now I'm 100% LotR. I'd have to say Gandalf is much better. But there are many similar things between them both.

[Emni Windrunner]

I'm not saying that Obi-Wan failed both of his students. I'm saying that he had a knack for choosing bad material to work with. Not having seen Ep. II, I can't comment on Yoda and Dooku, but having read many of the SW EU books, Luke relies much more on the guidance he received from Obi-Wan than on his instruction from Yoda. He looks back and remembers what Yoda taught, but "Ben" made much more of an impact on him. IMHO, if Obi-Wan landed in Middle Earth, he wouldn't have hesitated to take on Boromir as a student, and instead of trying to teach Boromir some humility and farsight, he would teach him a few handy tricks, then be shocked and horrified when Boromir gave into the temptation of the Ring. Gandalf, by contrast, saw it coming a mile away, and while he certainly hoped for the best, had he been at Amon Hen, he wouldn't have been surprised at what happened there.

[doug*platypus]

I was gonna start a thread on similarities between SW and LOTR, but it looks like I might get booed off the stage! However many comparisons you make between Lucas' and Tolkien's worlds, the most important similarity is that they were both trying to create a modern myth. Some stories that people would enjoy, could learn from, and would pass on. They both succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. In fact, if Tolkien had any idea how it would all turn out, I wonder if he still would have written the book? <P>I'm one person who strongly believes you can love both Tolkien and Star Wars, I know of one or two others, as well, you just need to be open-minded. The similarities are endless, especially after you've seen LOTR in movie form. Whenever I watch FOTR I keep expecting Gandalf to say "Before the dark times. Before the Empire... I mean, Sauron!"<P>As for Obi-Wan versus Gandalf, wouldn't Gandalf versus Darth Vader or Obi-Wan versus Sauron be more appropriate? I don't think anyone in Middle-Earth could possibly stop a lightsaber-wielding Jedi. Maybe Ulmo.

[Maikadilwen]

Oh yes... Obi Wan and Gandalf have so much in common. They were both played by gay actors.