Agent Smith & Magneto

[Arathiriel]

Okay, I've been watching some parts of the movie X-Men and I just want to ask something...<P>Okay A LOT of fans seem to have problems with Hugo Weaving as Lord Elrond in LOTR because he played Agent Smith, the main villain of <I>The Matrix</I>...<P>Now you talk to the same fans and they loved Ian McKellen's portrayal of Gandalf in LOTR -and rightfully so - and yet from what I have watched of X-Men he played a <B>really bad</B> villain in Magneto...<P>Now my question is: Why do fans want to forgive Ian McKellen for playing Magneto in X-Men but they seem very <I>unwilling</I> to forgive Hugo Weaving for playing Agent Smith?<P>What gives?

[Rynoah, the Overly-Happy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>and yet from what I have watched of X-Men he played a really bad villain in Magneto...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Being a very big X-Men fan (McKellan was the only reason I was interested in LotR until I found out that Sean Bean was in it), I wonder if you mean the portrayal was bad or the villain himself was bad?<P>Anyway, I don't think it's a question of "forgiving" Hugo Weaving for his portrayal of Agent Smith (it was well done), but rather that the role was so impressing that you can't see Weaving play anyone else. Just as I had troubles seeing Sean Bean as anyone else except 006 Alec Trevelyan (Janus) after watching Goldeneye until after I watched many of his other movies.

[Pennthangeil]

I dont have any idea what your talking about.<P>I happen to love Hugo in whatever roll he is playing.

[Arathiriel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Being a very big X-Men fan (McKellan was the only reason I was interested in LotR until I found out that Sean Bean was in it), I wonder if you mean the portrayal was bad or the villain himself was bad? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>By the Valar, I meant the character was a <B>really bad villian</B>, and NOT the portrayal of the character by Sir Ian was bad! <P>From what I have watched of the movie, he does a rather <B>great</B> job with Magneto <I>from the POV of someone who is NOT an X-Men fan</I> - by no means did I mean to imply that the acting was bad in any way!<P> <P>BTW - Is it my imagination or does Gandalf have a larger nose than Magneto?

[Lady Iverin]

I find that Ian does a marvelous job in whatever movie he's been in. I haven't seen <I>The Matrix</I>, but I don't think that Hugo Weaving should be put down because of his role. Should actors only be allowed to play a certain type of character? Most people can play opposing characters or change the way they are in a movie. What is wrong with that, I say? What about Orlando Bloom? In <I>Pirates of the Caribbean</I>, I'm sure that he doesn't play a very nice person. But, of course people overlook that because he's so hot. I say, what is this world coming to?

[Eressië Ailin]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> BTW - Is it my imagination or does Gandalf have a larger nose than Magneto? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Mckellen had a prosthetic nose for the filming of LoTR.

[Rynoah, the Overly-Happy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>BTW - Is it my imagination or does Gandalf have a larger nose than Magneto?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It's not your imagination; he wore a prosthetic for the role of Gandalf. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Should actors only be allowed to play a certain type of character?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Of course not. I'm only saying that the role of Agent Smith was quite an impressionable one and some find it hard to see past it (especially those that haven't seen any of Weaving's other works).

[Arathiriel]

Well after watching the rest of the X-Men movie I have to say I think that Magneto is a more multidimensional villain in both his actions and his reasoning behind those actions...<P>I missed the first 16 or so minutes of the movie, but even with missing those minutes I understood enough about Magneto to know that normal people had obviously always treated him with hatred and fear and no doubt have persecuted him in his life because of what he is: a mutant (and a <B>POWERFUL</B> one at that)!<P>Now I can sort of understand why some are willing to forgive Sir Ian for playing Magneto since he has more dimensions to him than Agent Smith ever really did have in the first Matrix movie...<P>But all in all I will NOT hold Agent Smith against Hugo Weaving... And incidentially I enjoy his portrayal of Elrond in FOTR and TTT! <p>[ April 03, 2003: Message edited by: Arathiriel ]

[Alphaelin]

Arathiriel:<P>I never saw 'The Matrix', but did not care for the movie version of Elrond because he was played as a far more sinister character than in the books. His attitude seems to be, 'Whoa, Gandalf! Us Elves are OUTTA HERE! Not our problem!!' From reading the books, I always imagine him to be far more concerned with the fate of Middle Earth. I don't blame HW for this tho' - I imagine it was a directorial decision of Jackson's. And I thought Hugo looked rather dishy in that coat of mail in the scene with Isildur. <P>Then again, I have a sick fetish for men in chain mail. <P><BR>Rynoah TO-H:<P> What excellent taste in actors! Sean Bean came to my attention some years ago via PBS & I've been a fan ever since. The idea of movies based on LOTR seemed like such sacrilege to me, I don't know if I would have gone if he had not been cast as Boromir.

[Meela]

While watching Lotr i have never thought about Agent Smith. I dont know what all the fuss is about. Hugo Weaving is permenantly Elrond in my mind. Im more likely to watch The Matrix and yell "Destroy it!!" over the top of one of his lines.

[Pennthangeil]

I agrree tottaly. That shouting over the lines thing I do it all the time.<BR>But hes cuter in chain mail i must admit

[The Barrow-Wight]

This topic belongs in MOVIES, so I am moving it there.

[Rynoah, the Overly-Happy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>What excellent taste in actors! Sean Bean came to my attention some years ago via PBS & I've been a fan ever since.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank you. I actually first saw him in Goldeneye. I was a Brosnan fan, so I decided to introduce myself to 007 movies that way. I saw Trevelyan and thought, "This guy upstages Brosnan!" Been a fan since then and more-so since LotR was released (I even got a friend hooked on Bean via his portrayal of Boromir. ).<P>Anyway, back on-topic:<P>I don't judge actors by how many dimensions their character has. If they can portray the character to a point where I believe the character can exist (despite unbelievable storylines or the like), then they get kudos. Usually. I have exceptions.

[rumil]

Did anyone see the 'Sharpe' series starring Sean Bean? It was about a British soldier in Spain during the Napoleonic wars, based on the books by Bernard Cornwell. I thought it was OK, though suffered from lack of budget in that the battle scenes weren't convincing due to a lack of extras. This was shown on British TV a few years ago, but is still repeated on UK Gold. <P>One of my female housemates at the time was addicted to the series due to the presence of Sean, though she did call it the 'silly hat show'.

[mollecon]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>BTW - Is it my imagination or does Gandalf have a larger nose than Magneto? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hmm - haven't you got Sir Ian confused with Nicole Kidman?

[Rynoah, the Overly-Happy]

Poor woman... I don't think she'll ever live that one down. Just like I don't think Weaving will live down his portrayal of Agent Smith.

[Elotareth]

I personally loved Hugo Weaving in both The Matrix and LotR. I don't have a problem keeping the characters straight. And it has produced some interesting fan fiction. You know, like "Because Agents can shapeshift, Elrond was really Agent Smith in disguise!", and so on.

[Arathiriel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Hmm - haven't you got Sir Ian confused with Nicole Kidman?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Uh no, I don't <B>EVEN</B> think so! <P>And incidentially his nose is larger in LOTR but that is due to prosthetic nose as I understand it from the other posters here...<p>[ April 04, 2003: Message edited by: Arathiriel ]

[Elvish Hermit]

I LOVED Hugo Weaving in The Matrix. I didn't even relize that he played both Elrond and Agent Smith until Fellowship came to DVD. People just use Elrond/Smith stuff more often then Gandalf/Magneto because of.......um..... I don't know why. They just do. {shrugs}

[NinjaFerret]

Hugo Weaving - The Matrix - Evil agent, computer simulation.<P>Hugo Weaving - Priscilla Queen of the Desert - Drag queen, previously straight father<P>Hugo Weaving - LotR - Elrond, elvish leader.<P>All three very diverse roles, and he aced them all. I am not surprised. He is talented.

[Liamtan]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><BR>People just use Elrond/Smith stuff more often then Gandalf/Magneto because of.......um..... I don't know why. They just do. {shrugs}<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Maybe because more people saw The Matrix than X-Men.

[Voralphion]

To those who think Elrond is ruined because of his portrayal of Agent Smith, watch Priscilla Queen of the Desert and see Hugo Weaving as a drag queen, then complain that Elrond is ruined by the actor's previous roles.

[Cibbwin]

Sir Ian played a brilliant Magneto. Hugo played a birlliant Agent Smith. VERY creepy, only reason I watched the movie. They will always be Gandalf and Elrond Halfelven to me, however.

[hobbit punk]

The first time I saw FOTR in theatres, I laughed out loud when I saw Hugo as Elrond because I immediately associated him with Agent Smith in the Matrix. But I got over that in about five minutes because Hugo is such a talented actor and picks such a diversity of roles.

[Peri]

Good question. I think it has to do with the fact that Hugo was more rememberable in The Matrix than Ian was in The X-Men. Ian was a very flat character in the movie. I hate to say it, but a very forgettable character. I haven't seen The Matrix so I can't really comment on that.

[Mattius]

Maybe it is because Ian McKellen looks so different in the two films and Hugo Weaving is easier to distinguish. I don't know really, all three films are great and RotK, Matrix Reloaded and X-Men 2 are going to be fantastic too!

[Adutincowen]

I don't understand it! I love Lord of the Rings, X-MEN, and The Matrix. I don't really care if the characters they play in 2 movies are total opposite, because it's the character that matters, not the actor (well, usually...) anyway, some of my friends are like that, and then there's Hayley...

[Elvish Hermit]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Maybe because more people saw The Matrix than X-Men. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't think that true. I know more people who've seen X-Men than the Matrix. <P>Actually, I believe people quote the Matrix and Lord of the Rings together. Look at the plots: One main heore, a group fighting aginst the forces of evil, and some parts confusing to the mind of the norm. Even look at Elrong and Agent Smith, the most common crossover: Both on completely different sides of the fence, yet they have a disliking for men. That's where many people get their connections. However trying to get Gandalf say something about the evelution of men or Magneto saying he will be somewhere to the East at the break of the dawn on the fifth day doesn't fit as well as The Matrix stuff does.

[Brinniel]

How strange. I just watched both X-Men and The Matrix last week. <P>Since I saw FOTR before seeing X-Men or The Matrix, I couldn't help but think when watching each, "Look, it's Elrond," or "Look it's Gandalf." But as I got into both movies, I forgot who the actors were and just focused on the characters they were currently playing. I think this proves that both Hugo Weaving and Ian McKellan are great actors and can play any role (though the fact that The Matrix and X-Men were really great movies probably helps too).

[The Only Real Estel]

I don't think fans have a problem with Hugo having played Agent Smith and Elrond, what're you going to do? Forbid him to appear in any other movies? And Magneto isn't really a bad guy, he just has different ideas about what's right for the mutants. <p>[ May 06, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

[Nyneve]

I did not have a problem with Hugo except I never really thought of Elrond as balding. <P><BR>I always Think of Sean Bean (one of my favorite actors) as portraying Richard Sharpe in 'Sharpe's Rifles'

[Lyra Greenleaf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> To those who think Elrond is ruined because of his portrayal of Agent Smith, watch Priscilla Queen of the Desert and see Hugo Weaving as a drag queen, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Damn- exactly what I was going to say! <BR>What is it with LOTR actors and drag? "Faramir" in Moulin Rouge wore a purple wig and lipstick (not quite drag but...), Orlando Bloom wore a dress on TV and Ian McKellan wants to play a panto dame!

[Everdawn]

Yeah, i cant watch LOTR anymore without laughing so hard im crying when i see Elrond... i keep imagining him in Priscilla... times that by 10 when i have my friends over for an all nighter movie night.. many screams throughout my street!<P>And Ian wore a prosthetic nose in LOTR, someone says so in the commentary on the extended DVD... And i really liked Ian in X MEN... its awesome..!

[Elvish Hermit]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Faramir" in Moulin Rouge wore a purple wig and lipstick (not quite drag but...), <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>.<BR>.<BR>Whoa, whoa, Rewind. When was David Wenham in <I>Moulin Rouge!</I>?

[vanwalossien]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Whoa, whoa, Rewind. When was David Wenham in Moulin Rouge!? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh, he was in Moulin Rouge. Great role too... Audrey, the first writer of 'Spectacular Spectacular' who left when Christian (Ewan McGregor) got the job. He's in Moulin Rouge for at least two minutes...<BR>Oh, and: "not quite drag"? If it wasn't, it was very close to it... It was drag...<P>Back to the point. I don't have trouble with Weaving playing Elrond because of him playing Smith, it's just that Smith is a very, ahem, memorable character, that makes me think of him as Smith even when he's playing Elrond. I frequently say 'Hobbits are a virus, isn't that right, missster Bagginsss' when watching both Lotr and Matrix...

[Elvish Hermit]

Audrey,Audrey. Nooooo, <I>that's</I>him??? He looks so different. (duh) then again, cosmetics was able to make Jim Carrey The Grinch and Mike Meyers the Cat in the Hat so anything's possible.

[Everdawn]

That was HIM?.... oh my god.. i think i can see a resembelance...<P>*grabs Moulin Rouge DVD*<P>Ok now i have another reason to watch it again... Are you sure?..

[Brinniel]

Yep, that's sure him. If you still can't believe it, look in the credits and you'll find David's name in there. Too bad he wasn't in the movie longer. I thought the character Audrey was rather funny.

[Airerûthiel]

I've just come back from seeing <I>X2</I> and I admit to saying to my friend, "Look it's Gandalf!" when Sir Ian McKellen was on screen. I kept expecting him to say something like, 'BILBO BAGGINS!!' or 'All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.' To me he will now always be Gandalf.<P>I only recently saw <I>The Matrix</I> and did exactly the same thing - I wanted to know why Elrond was there. That happened with Sean Bean as well when I saw him in <I>Goldeneye</I> (I didn't know he was until I heard his voice and then I went, "Oh my God it's Boromir!")<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Should actors only be allowed to play a certain type of character?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have to totally disagree with that. In fact, it's better if they play a really diverse range of characters because then they're not in danger of being typecast (which is bad in any case, but especially for young actors 'cause if they always play teenagers they'll have no career after their mid-twenties).

[Aragolas]

I don't believe there's anything to <I>forgive</I>Hugo for. I was extremely excited to see he's back as Agent Smith in the Matrix, as he was a <B>brilliant</B>villain in that. <P>As for Elrond, I didn't take him as being "sinister" at all, he just seemed extremely staid and authoritative. I would be most afraid to cross him.<P>"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson."

[Elrond Jr]

While talking about Hugo's other roles don't forget about ian's other roles.....ie- Chauvelin in the Scarlet Pimpernel!

[Everdawn]

Man, I think Ian is TOPS at playing bad guys.. I would sell my mother for role as a bad guy!...*sorry mum**<p>[ May 11, 2003: Message edited by: Everdawn ]

[Pookabunny]

The only time in FOTR that reminded me of Agent Smith was when he stood up at the council and said "you have only one choice"... I was waiting for him to finish it with "...Mr. Anderson" JUST because of the way he said it.<P>I LOVE Hugo Weaving. He was incredible in "Pricilla" I could only imagine a cross-over LOTR/Pricilla pic of Elrond wearing that sandal-dress <P>OMG MAGNETO! Wow, when I was watching X2 (I JUST saw it today and OMG LOVED IT!), it took me a while to really let it sink in - Ian McKellen is such an incredible actor. Magneto is such a complex and interesting character - he's evil, yet has good intentions (just POOR execution!). And he's a smartass. Granted Gandalf is complex too, but it's on a different level. Magneto is bad, but has loyalties and his badness is driven by experience. So he's got this duality thing going for him, and Sir Ian pulls it off quite well. Then, there's Gandalf - who is Good through and through. I love him as both.<P>And I'm SO GLAD Ian McKellen is NOT playing Dumbledore. That would lead to typecasting, and that would just SUCK.<P>Typecasting is BAD. Actors may play similar roles, but genres and the like need to be explored for an actor to be credible (in my mind).<P>Take a look at Chevy Chase. Has he made ANYTHING that isn't Lampoon-esque?<p>[ May 10, 2003: Message edited by: Pookabunny ]

[Tinuviel Took]

Okay here my two cents worth. I loved Sir Ian in X-men, the Scarlet Pimpernel, and LOTR. However even though I did not see the Matrix before LOTR I abhored Hugo as Elrond. There was no kindly elven lord, no merry elf, no loving father, he was just a stiff proud person with man-like aregance. PJ's Elrond was as messed up as his Faramir.<p>[ May 19, 2003: Message edited by: Tinuviel Took ]

[Arathiriel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The only time in FOTR that reminded me of Agent Smith was when he stood up at the council and said "you have only one choice"... I was waiting for him to finish it with "...Mr. Anderson" JUST because of the way he said it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>LOL - Yeah he did sound a lot like Agent Smith right at that moment didn't he?<P><I>'Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson...'</I> <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>There was no kindly elven lord, no merry elf, no loving father, he was just a stiff proud person with man-like aregance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I couldn't disagree with you more here! I thought Elrond was portrayed well in FOTR and TTT and I didn't find him the least bit <B>arrogant</B> either!<p>[ May 11, 2003: Message edited by: Arathiriel ]

[Everdawn]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The only time in FOTR that reminded me of Agent Smith was when he stood up at the council and said "you have only one choice"... I was waiting for him to finish it with "...Mr. Anderson" JUST because of the way he said it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>MEHMEHMEH... The Matrix was on TV again last night... I laughed all the way through, much to the annoyance of my family who were trying to sleep..

[Voralphion]

I know it isn't about Hugo Weaving or Ian Mckellan, but what about the role of Christopher Lee in Star Wars Attack of the Clones as Count Duku. I saw it the other day and I almost started laughing when he kept talking about the dark lord.<p>[ May 19, 2003: Message edited by: Voralphion ]

[HCIsland]

I find those two roles of Christopher Lee more interesting because there are so many parallels between Dooku and Saruman.<P>H.C.

[Elrond Jr]

yes....i agree......but it's pretty funny, the hair difference especially. And seeing doku fight, that wuz neat...

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I couldn't disagree with you more here! I thought Elrond was portrayed well in FOTR and TTT and I didn't find him the least bit arrogant either!<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Same. I think that Hugo was great as Elrond, and, anyhow, at least I can't think of an actor who could have done him better. I also thought Faramir was good, but that would be going off topic... by the way, did David Wenham have any other roles? And, if so, have any of you seen them?<P>~Menelien

[balrogman]

my brother bought the attack of the clones dvd and ive never watched it yet, maybe i should just to see christopher lee...i dont know about you guys, but i can only see sam as rudy! i love that movie, so i cant really get that out of my head..haha

[Voralphion]

who is Rudy?

[Manwe Sulimo]

The movie, <I>Rudy</I>, was about a kid named Rudy (played by good old Sean Astin) who really wanted to play football. He went to school at Notre Dame and finally got to play in the last game, where he got a sack on the last play.<P>I actually didn't make the connection between Rudy and Sam...of course, we watched <I>Rudy</I> in health class (mental health unit, don't ask), so I wasn't paying attention.

[Brinniel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I find those two roles of Christopher Lee more interesting because there are so many parallels between Dooku and Saruman. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I couldn't agree with you more. Those two characters seem very much alike, especially when they're both played by Christopher Lee. When Dooku tells Obi-Wan-Kenobi to join him, I can't help but think of Saruman.

[Frodo 007]

I think people should just learn to accept that Ian McKellen & Hugo Weaving are only actors, which means they won't only be in LOTR and there's nothing you can do about it!!!

[The Only Real Estel]

I don't think people care about Hugo being in LOTR as much as some people think they do. I think they actually couldn't care less, for the most part.

[Tinuviel of Denton]

I agree. I wish that some of Elrond's more humorous lines had been kept.<P>I didn't even realize that those two were the same actors for a very long time. It's funny, everyone talks about the actors, and I don't even know their names because all I care about is the story. Sometimes, I wish I did so I could post on the "what actor would play..." threads. Oh, well.<P>Actually, the only one I noticed was Christopher Lee as both Saruman and Count Dooku. Talk about typecasting. (I only know that one because Zel Ladrona is a Star Wars fan, much like I am a LotR fan.)

[Elvanui]

I laughed through all the scenes with count dooku. I really didn't like that movie so finding something humorous and LOTR related was great. I expected dooku to start giving the "New power is rising" speech b/c the lines and character were soooo similar. Anyway, I always get a laugh out of Elrond,at least in FOTR, not b/c Hugo played Agent Smith(although I think he is a delightful villian)but b/c I think the look he gives Sam and Merry and Pippen when he finds out that they have been listening in on the council priceless. He looks like he's thinking "what, is there a nazgul in the bushes that my elf senses ave failed to notice?!" The fact that he lets the hobbits go on the quest (and the near amused reaction he has to sam's appearance) shows that he is not completely serious and dour all the time. I think hugo did a good job with a character who is SUPPOSED to be serious and somewhat wistful that his people are passing into myth.