Where is Gandalf's staff!

[Ugluk]

Just watched fotr video and was left with a burning question. Gandalf goes to Isengard, he has a duel with Saruman. In this duel, Gandalfs staff is taken by Saruman. Gandalf is imprisoned on the top of Orthanc. He has no staff. He then leaps from Orthanc, (after another meeting with Saruman)and is rescued by Gwaihir. Still he has no staff. Next minute he is in Rivendell by Frodos bedside, and Hey Presto!!!!! He has his staff back again! But how did he get it back from Saruman. Did Saruman Kindly return it to him as a parting Gift? Or did Gwaihir swiftly fly in and grab it whilst Saruman wasn't looking? Did Gandalf buy a new one? Or did he break a branch of a nearby tree and use that? Does anyone have an answer!!!!!!!!!

[Eol]

It is rather simple....that is a movie blunder. That is all I can say, it is their bad.

[sweatpea knotwise]

I wouldn't call it a "blunder". It is simply a different staff. If you look closely, you can see that the post-Isengard staff is not the same one as pre-Isengard. Gandalf's first staff had a built in pipe holder, his second staff held an illuminating crystal. Whether he got it from his stash at home, or carved a new one after his escape from Saruman doesn't have much significance in the story, so why spend screentime explaining it?<p>[ August 11, 2002: Message edited by: Sweatpea Knotwise ]

[Davin]

The two staffs are different, you just have to look closely.<P>But the second one doesn't have a crystal in it...he takes the crystal out of his pocket or something in Moria and puts it on the top of the staff and it lights up....so it isn't really 'part' of the staff.<P>He's probably got a huge stash of extra cloths and hats and staffs hidden away somewhere. He's Gandalf!

[Rhod the Red]

And why would Saruman give him back his staff
that he took in the duel? He hold Gandalf prisoner.
Doesn't make sense to re-arm a prisoner

[ironies]

The whole bit about the breaking of Saruman's staff, as well as his comment about Gandalf wanting the rods of the 5 wizards, and Wormtongue's orders about the staff all indicate that a wizard's staff is not just a piece of wood.As far as that goes, Gandalf was more than a match for any one of the nazghul, perhaps een all of them. He was a Maia after all. In fact, he was pretty close to Sauron's equal, although perhaps less of a warrior and more of a counsellor.

[Zigûr]

Gandalf was more than a match for any one of the nazghul, perhaps een all of them. He was a Maia after all. In fact, he was pretty close to Sauron's equal, although perhaps less of a warrior and more of a counsellor.
It's worth noting that in Letter 183 (p.243 footnote) Professor Tolkien described Sauron as being "Of the same kind as Gandalf and Saruman, but of a far higher order." Make of that what you will.
As for the film, it does indeed appear that Gandalf's staff is different after his escape from Isengard, although it can be difficult to tell. Compare his staff in the Isengard scene:
http://www.council-of-elrond.com/castdb/gandalfgrey/gandalfgrey5.jpg
with his staff as it appears in Moria:
http://middle-earth.xenite.org/files/2011/09/gandalf-moria-01.jpg
The head certainly looks different, pointier in the later image.

[Sarumian]

It's worth noting that in Letter 183 (p.243 footnote) Professor Tolkien described Sauron as being "Of the same kind as Gandalf and Saruman, but of a far higher order." Make of that what you will.

As I remember, somewhere else (probably in Silmarillon) Sauron is called the most powerful of Majar, stating also that more powerful Mayar were close to Vallar in that respect.

Gandalf was a Maja of Manve and was very powerful as well.

This is the quote from the Letter 246, measuring their powers:

Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him – being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form.
Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. One can imagine the scene in which Gandalf, say, was placed in such a position. It would be a delicate balance. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. It would have been the master in the end.

Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great).

So a direct duel without possession of the Ring would be impossible to win, and a duel wielding the Ring would still not yield a positive result, as Gandalf "would have been far worse than Sauron".

[Sarumian]

The whole bit about the breaking of Saruman's staff, as well as his comment about Gandalf wanting the rods of the 5 wizards, and Wormtongue's orders about the staff all indicate that a wizard's staff is not just a piece of wood.

There is a topic on Istaris' staves (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=16984&highlight=staves):

There is no single explanation of the role of rods in books and movies can make it even more complex. We know that wizards were able to produce magic with or without staves; however, it came to breaking a staff when Saruman was dismissed. To make it consistent in movies let's take into account the absence of a crystal in Gangalf's old staff as well as the scene in The Hobbit. An Unexpected Journey, where Radagast takes a blue crystal out of his staff to perform a resurrection of his poisoned friend. Shall we suggest that wizards
could re-make their staves if they retained magical crystals? I mean movies only.:smokin:

PS. Did anyone pay attention to the staff in The Hobbit? Is it the first or the second in LOTR saga? :)

[Rhod the Red]

Well there's no indication I recall from Tolkein it was a diff. staff he had in TLotR after the Hobbit (pre-death), so for Tolkein it's the same, PJ providing a diff. one.